From NBC's Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Andy Merten
On a day when Iran remained in the headlines -- with the National Intelligence Estimate's conclusion that Iran stopped its nuclear program in 2003, and with President Bush commenting on the issue at his news conference today -- Clinton's rivals pounced on her vote for a months-old measure declaring the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization.
"I just want to be clear to the listeners that we have a real division here," Edwards said at today's NPR/Iowa Public Radio debate in Des Moines. "I mean, among the Democratic candidates, there's only one that voted for this resolution. And this is exactly what Bush and Cheney wanted." Dodd and Biden voted against it; Edwards, who is no longer in the Senate, and Obama, who was campaigning, didn't vote on it but have said they opposed the legislation.
Obama added, "What I've been consistent about was that this saber-rattling was a repetition of Iraq, a war I opposed. And that we needed to oppose George Bush again. We can't keep on giving him the benefit of the doubt, knowing the ways in which they manipulate intelligence."
Biden called the bill "self-defeating." "The moment that declaration was made, oil prices jumped over $18 a barrel," he said. "The moment that declaration was made, every one of our friends, from Iraq to Pakistan, felt they had to distance themselves from us because it appears to be a war on Islam."
Clinton responded to that criticism by noting that some prominent senators who opposed the Iraq war -- like Sens. Dick Durbin and Carl Levin -- voted for the legislation. "And all of us have said that if we thought that anything in that resolution gave even a pretense of legitimacy to President Bush taking any action, we wouldn't have voted that way. In fact, a number of the Democrats worked furiously to clarify the meaning of that resolution."
She continued, "The specifics about designating the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization, I believe, fits into a broader diplomatic effort. I believe in aggressive diplomacy when it comes to Iran. And when you engage in aggressive diplomacy, you need both carrots and sticks."
And she dismissed criticism of her voting for it this way. "Well, I understand politics, and I understand making outlandish political charges," she said, "but this really goes way too far. In fact, having designated the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization, we've actually seen some changes in their behavior."
Biden disputed that. [T]here's no evidence -- none, zero,"Â he said, "that this declaration caused any change in action on the part of the Iranian government."
Yet that exchange was the only instance in the debate when the seven Democratic candidates -- Richardson wasn't there -- engaged in any kind of combat. In fact, Clinton did not explicitly go after Obama, as she has on the campaign trail in recent days.
On the issue of China, Clinton sought to highlight her days as First Lady as experience. "You know, 12 years ago, I went to China, and the Chinese didn't want me to come," she said. "And they didn't want me to make a speech. And when I made the speech, they blocked it out from being heard within China, where I stood up for human rights and, in particular, women's rights, because women had been so brutally abused in many settings in China."
She added that she "certainly did" advise her husband, Bill Clinton, on China policy. "I not only advised," she said, "I often met with he and his advisers, both in preparation for, during and after. I traveled with representatives from the Security Council, the State Department, occasionally the Defense Department and even the CIA. So I was deeply involved in being part of the Clinton team, in the first Clinton administration."
On the issue of illegal immigration, there again was little disagreement or difference among the candidates. They all said they don't want to create an atmosphere in which Americans are taking it upon themselves to turn in illegal immigrants. "We do not deputize the American people," Obama said.
"They are embedded in our society," Clinton said.
And Dodd said Republicans want to talk about immigration to change the subject from Iraq, the Bush Administration's fiscal policies and health care. "So they're going to use this issue as a wedge issue here to inflame the passions, the fears and hatreds of too many Americans," he said.
This debate was certainly different from previous ones. For starters, it wasn't televised, which made it difficult (or impossible) to gauge the candidates' reactions and expressions. It focused on just three issues -- Iran, China and immigration -- which resulted in a more robust discussion on those issues, but which also ignored other subjects. And, for the most part, there was little disagreement among the candidates. "I completely agree with Chris," as Obama said after Dodd stated that immigration is a source of this country's wealth and richness. In fact, candidates pointed out five times that they agreed with a competitor or the group.
So it really wasn't a debate; it more like an in-depth discussion.
Perhaps the most interesting exchange among the candidates came on the last question: What is the toughest choice that remains for you? Clinton mentioned Iran and China before settling on balancing how the US should stimulate its economy; Obama cited climate change (which should please Al Gore), noting that the science is showing an even more rapid deterioration of the climate; Dodd said education; Biden mentioned competition and trade; Kucinich responded with holding Bush and Cheney accountable "for lies"; Gravel said it was convincing Americans that they are the solution, not politicians; and Edwards answered with this quip: "Who I would choose as my vice president."
When asked for a serious reply, Edwards said restoring democracy back to the people.