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Did Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, R, endorse a pathway to citizenship in his speech before the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce this morning?
Sen. Rand Paul explains portions of his immigration reform plan on Tuesday while speaking at the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce Legislative Summit.
That’s what an Associated Press article previewing the speech said, as well as a report shortly before Paul’s speech published by Buzzfeed.
But the Kentucky senator made no mention of citizenship itself in his speech; he focused his remarks on the need for creating a “legal” status for the 12 million undocumented immigrants currently in the United States.
And an unnamed Paul adviser subsequently disputed to the Washington Post the idea that the popular conservative senator had, in fact, backed citizenship for undocumented immigrants.
“The AP story was wrong, which spurred a lot of erroneous reports,” the adviser told the Post. “He does not mention ‘path to citizenship’ in his speech at all.”
The difference between citizenship and legal status might seem semantic, but it is an important distinction in the legislative battle over comprehensive immigration reform. Democrats believe that citizenship is an essential element of any final deal, and the bipartisan “Group of Eight” in the Senate working toward a compromise includes such a path in its framework.
The speech was good enough to win praise from Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer, N.Y., a major Senate proponent of citizenship.
"The consensus continues to grow in favor of immigration reform that contains a path to citizenship," Schumer said in a statement. "While there are certainly differences between our emerging product and Senator Paul's outline, there is also a lot of common ground."
Paul explained the finer details of his plan to reporters following his speech. In essence, his plan would distribute indefinite work visas to qualified undocumented immigrants in stages, allowing them legal status in the United States. Once those workers have visas, they would then have the option of applying for citizenship – though not necessarily with any preferential or expedited pathway.
“You get in the same lines, you get in the line wherever you sign up, you don’t go to the front of any line,” he explained. “And I know that sounds silly, but front or back of the line seems to be this thing that’s really important to people. So what I would say is, you have the option to get in the line without going home. That’s the main difference from what we have now, as well as you get a work visa if you want to work.”
He also said he wasn’t necessarily comfortable with forcing those seeking citizenship to pay fines.
“And I’m not a huge fan of the fines, necessarily,” he said. “I think a lot of these immigrants are workers who don’t have a lot of money.”
A major sticking point, though, for Paul is subjecting certification of border security to a vote in Congress. In his plan, lawmakers would have an annual option to vote on an administration’s report that the border has been secured before moving forward with the visa process. He said he would try to amend the Group of Eight’s eventual legislation to include something like this.
“I want to try to amend their package, and I would likely vote for it if I could get mine on,” he said, adding that he wasn’t sure whether failing to do so would lose his support.
The conflicting comments and careful language, though, reflect the political difficulty for conservatives in embracing comprehensive immigration reform, especially if it involves a pathway to citizenship. And he took strides to quell those concerns in his speech.
“My plan will not grant amnesty or move anyone to the front of the line,” he said.
Leave a Comment:
undocumented, aka illegal?
There is already a pathway to citizenship, isn't there? Stay off my boy Rand!!??
Has Obama got a plan to get them as citizens? He is, by the way, the current President...
Yes, there is a pathway to citizenship, Lil Michelle always has been. The problem at the moment is the BACKLOG of getting people who are in line processed.
What DO you do with that big ol' 162 IQ of yours besides ask extremely stupid questions as posted above? Thanks for letting us all know who is President. Sheesh!
Paul just explained very throughly what he is not for but very vague on his plan and what he is for. So far I grasped he is for illegals to become legal but not citizens, just their kids.
Lil Michelle
this is how uniformed you are...no there isn't unless you get married to a US citizen/perm. resident..or get adopted by US citizen prior to turning 18...or someone in your immediate family becomes a citizen...or if you hold a special category job like "priest"... or few other ways that are very specific.
None of the above apply to MOST who would LOVE to become a permanent residents so PLEASE PLEASE educate yourself before you keep spreading your propaganda.
No sir, he said, per the article above, that he wants for maintain the existing pathway to citizenship, but to remove any "favoritism" in doing so. And to do it in stages, without fines, so that the undocumented immigrants that are already here, will be able to obtain a green card/work visa now, without having to be deported, and start from square one. But then again, he's not the president and is a republican, so I'm sure his plan will be viewed as evil and manipulative by those on the left.
The pathway to citizenship is to go back to their country and then attempt to emigrate in a documented fashion. The undocumented immigrants have violated our laws to be here and there needs be no pathway for them.
I meant Libertarian. Dang labels.
Put comprehensive immigration reform to the side, Your boy Rand walks a thin line between reality and crazy,
Let's make one thing crystal clear in any discussion of Republicans, especially right-wing-nut Republicans, willing to reform U.S. Immigration Law. THE ONLY REASON Rand Paul, or any other Republican Politician, is motivated to reform immigration laws for Hispanics is for their large, and fast growing, voting block! Period, amen, end of story! They are NOT motivated out of empathy; only for the selfish and self-serving motive of winning more of the Hispanic Vote. They finally have arrived, correctly, at the premise, that they cannot win another national election without more of the Hispanic Vote! Republicans of all stripes now realize that they cannot win national elections with only 27% of the Hispanic Vote
Rand Paul supports a pathway for a racist wad to look like a viable option considering the vacuum of interstellar space that is currently the GOP.
(That's a period there at the end)
bayllie....these "undocumented workers" could also apply for citizenship like those from every other non-Central American nation....you left that off. Maybe you should educate yourself as well?
I have to agree with most of you before me up there.
The headline is interesting, don't you think? ROFL... so now the issue is "undocumented immigrants"? So the term "illegal" is no longer popular (meaning law-breaking). And now the word "immigrant" is being used instead of "alien"? Well, alien means non-immigrant; i.e. a citizen of a foreign country.
Looks like media is off and running to support law-breakers from foreign countries.
Liberalism is off and running.... ignorantly. It sure has given me an about face. Yep I was a registered Democrat most of my life. For me, anyway, the increasing "entitlements" aka welfare, a very costly benefit to which "we" are entitled without working for it... bugs the dickens out of me.
I've always had to work for a living to support my kids when I was widowed, and guess what! I really enjoyed it even though it was tough! It's independence! And that is something I, and my kids, treasure.
Sure there is; just execute 'em as soon as you arrest them. Don't you agree that would be another solution?
I think this in an interesting concept. The logistics of deporting 12 million people is impossible. So, giving those that are here to work permanent visas, would actually document them to the point that they would have to pay taxes and SS. They would be contributing to some of the social services that are being strained by them being here. Medical and Education being two majors. Plus, in this way, they would be subject to ACA
I don't know, it almost sounds reasonable, but it does nothing to actually be able to control our borders and future influx.
The kicker is the last statement, "no immigration without certification that the border is secure".
Paul knows the border won't ever be 100% secure, so this will negate ever letting anyone immigrate.
Everyone in the GOP is moving towards citizenship for illegals. What's a Con to do?
THE ONLY REASON Rand Paul, or any other Republican Politician, is motivated to reform immigration laws for Hispanics is for their large, and fast growing, voting block! Period, amen, end of story! They are NOT motivated out of empathy; only for the selfish and self-serving motive of winning more of the Hispanic Vote.
And the democrats want amnesty for them out of the goodness of their heart... right? What you just said describes both parties perfectly. Don't even pretend to be so ignorant that you don't think the libs are doing the same exact thing. How do you think the dems locked in the black vote decades ago? The party that persecuted them the most was suddenly giving them a bunch of free @!$%#, while at the same time using eugenics to kill their young.
See, at least I don't try and pretend the republicans are perfect, I don't discriminate, I hate both parties (democrats a bit more). But you libs just take the cake with thinking your party is all sunshine and unicorns. Your party has committed the worst crimes against the citizens of this country through out our short history, and you continue to do so.
Paul knows the border won't ever be 100% secure, so this will negate ever letting anyone immigrate.
You really are a moron. It won't stop ANYONE from immigrating here LEGALLY.
THEY ARE ILLEGAL ALIENS.You know because they BROKE THE LAW.They should not be given anything but a jail sentace and bus ticket out of the United States.
The GOP just really epitomizes human stupidity. Their belief that finding a way to handle the immigration issue, particularly for Hispanics, is going to encourage Hispanics to vote for them is really ludicrous.
The GOP's belief that creating a smaller government and telling us how to live our private lives are a consistent and harmonious political philosophy shared by most Americans is what continues to ruin them. And they obviously still don't get it....
If we can't secure the border or keep up with illegal aliens who come into this country, we are wasting billions of dollars on worthless people employed by a worthless agency called Homeland Security.
Disband it.
The Rand Paul thing in nonsense. He is not even a Republican. He is a Libertarian. The Libertarian Platform (which was written by Ron and Rand Paul) says: "Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders." That means that all immigration would be legal. Period.
Rand and Ron Paul are wrecking destruction in the Republican Party by espousing the Libertarian Party's ideals disguised as Tea Party offerings. Everyone should read the Libertarian Platform (www.lp.org/platform ) before they make any judgements about Ron or Rand Paul. No mater what they say, this is what they believe.
john-737278 - instead of picking the Washington DC backed most inefficient and costly mechanism for removing illegal aliens - how about mandatory E-Verify for every business and employee in the country.
90 day implementation period. After 90-days the company of anyone not E-Verified will be subject to a $1,000 per day fine.
Watch how fast the illegals would clear out if they couldn't work. No need for billions of dollars to remove the illegals - most all of them would voluntarily self-deport, leaving a much more manageable number for ICE to find and remove.
Chris-749391 - thanks! Anytime I see a story about Rand Paul I have to remember the crazy Libertarian ideas of no borders... talk about globalists. That entire family should be rounded up and put up on charges of treason.
The head of ICE was asked about the 15-foot fence that the GOP wants so badly. He called it "worthless" and "a complete waste of money." When asked why, he just said that the nbext illegal to come around would just bring a 16-foot ladder.
Who cares what Rand Paul thinks or does, this guy is a idiot and a insult to monkeys !!!
If we are a country of laws there is a right and wrong way to do things. It is a slap in the face for American citizens and those who act in a legal fashion to become citizens. We do not negotiate with terrorist and must not reward those who have shown disrespect for our laws. If American citizens are prosecuted for passing illegal or forged identification, driving without a license or insurance, or for not paying taxes, so should those who enter our country illegally.
Politicians, and the rest of us know the remedy for the illegal immigration problem, but politicians are beholden to those most responsible for it, the so-called job creators who hire illegal immigrants under the table to avoid paying tax and bolster the bottom line. If ICE spent one third the money they are using to apprehend and incarcerate illegal immigrants on going after, and prosecuting employers who hire them, the illegal immigrant problem would go away on it's own.
At some point we are going to have to say no to amnesty, lest we will be issuing an open invitation for millions more illegal immigrants...,This is one of few issues I agreed with Romney on, self deportation is the cheapest and most rational way to go.
To make our borders secure we must prevent employers from putting out the honey (jobs) that attract illegal immigrants.....The law is already on the books, ENFORCE IT!!!
lessThan99%
Sorry, you don't have a clue. I am an employer, so I have a little history with the system. E-verify will never work for a couple of reasons. Many of the illegals are migrant farm workers, working for cash. There is no way to enforce that. Besides that, I have done proper verification on employees only to find out that they were not legal. Hell, even though the SS Admin knows exactly what money is being attributed to what SS #'s, they will do nothing because it is revenue.
In fact, I had one who spoke fluent English, graduated form an Arizona high school with a 4.0, bought three trucks with financing, got in accidents, bought a home, and got married. Through none of that did he get caught, or anyone in law enforcement care.
Logic of thinking they will just leave is simply moronic. And, hence why the moron did not win the election.
Deven Sharma
While I am against illegal immigration, I have to ask. How would you go about rounding up a tenth of our population? Anyone brown?
People tend to forget that most of the immigrants to this country did not get prior citizenship. They came on boats and registered once here. The laws people site were not always the case.
I've worked with illegals at quite a few companies in the past, some have become friends. The one thing I learned from them is they don't want to become U.S. citizens. A good portion of their wages are sent to Mexico where they plan on returning to. As far as citizenship goes there's already a path to take.......they choose not to.
john-,
E-verify is only a small part of it, and only about 15% of illegal immigrants are working US farm jobs, four times that many are working in construction, manufacturing, warehousing, restaurants and food processing plants. Only a moron would not know that, your logic bucket has holes in it.
Ellis Baumgarner
I fail to understand, just because you don't agree, how you in any way shape or form shot a hole in my bucket. I never stated that they all were migrants. But even those professions that you mention contain many migrants. There is less chance of getting caught if they are always on the move. One funny thing about our mexican population that many don't get is that they communicate with each other. They talk to each other, know when INS will show up, and when to move on.
Where did your family hail from by the way? Sounds German. Did your family immigrate to the US with pre-citizenship?
You know, group... I thought of a provocative way for expelling the law-breaking folks from foreign countries from our overpopulated U.S.A.
First, absolutely NO welfare, or "entitlements" as they are called today. Not in any way shape or form. Babies notwithstanding. (Nursing is still not a lost art.) Couple that with giving employers of the so-called "cheap" illegals fines and taxes so huge that it is a lot cheaper for them to hire our proven citizens. And that is easier to spot than you might think. If they "no speeka da inglish" that verifies immediately they cannot be Naturalized citizens.
Now, don't laugh. Check Google regarding the older freight ships. You'd be amazed by how many an appropriate load of our favorite law-breakers even older freighters can hold. Huge, even several thousands at a time I learned.
O, not to deliver to their native lands.
Nah. There are still empty or abandoned islands especially in the south pacific... what a lovely environment. Smacks of the once upon a time Devil's Island (but that's in the Caribbean; it was the highly touted penal colony for a couple of centuries back in the day). Nicer in the South Pacific and delightfully challenging to wield a shovel and grow their own crops.
It would be a lot cheaper, I think, to dump them in a land of sunshine all together so they can exchange "skills" (if they have any). It actually worked, back in the days where survival ruled. The world has only begun owing those kinds of folks a living in the very recent decades.
And think of the heady reaction to their buddies across the ocean who think we have our famous Streets of Gold. Do you think they'd like that modern day Devil's Island also?
I thought Ron Paul had possibilities, but nope. Trying to be political like all the other goofases in our world today isn't the road to success, in my book.
john,
According to our family code of arms my ancestors first immigrated from Germany to the US in 1838, and the only criteria for citizenship then was the bread winner of the household had to have an occupation that was on a much desired list.
Agree with you about the Mexican population, both legal and illegal communicating with each other.
I also was a business owner for many years, but that was long before there was a huge illegal immigration problem which grew out of hand after Reagan Granted amnesty to nearly three million and sent out an open invitation to all illegals who followed.
Again, the only feasible way to rid America of the illegal immigration problem is to eliminate the means of survival for illegal immigrants, and that can only be done by going after employers in earnest. If we made hiring illegal aliens a class 4 felony, the job market for illegal immigrants would dry up, pronto.
Ellis Baumgarner
I disagree. You are attempting to punish 100,000 business owners for the actions of 12 million. As it is now, there is no real way as an employer to verify with 100% certainty that you are hiring a legal. So, legal Mexicans will be punished for the actions of others because nobody would hire anyone who's skin is brown.
As far as I am concerned it is too late to do anything about the 12 million that came here illegally. We were attacked 11 years ago, and you would at least think it would have been a priority to be able to close our borders. I guess terrorism isn't a huge threat after all. It starts at the border. It ends at the border. Any solution must start there, and afterwards we can deal with the problems that remain.
There is another solution though! That spoiled Americans get off their asses and their high horse, welfare, and extended unemployment and take the jobs the Mexicans are willing to do. Most of it would end right there.
Colorado-Man . . .
Easy words to type but how many are already IN line and have been waiting for 15+ years in order to obtain citizenship?
http://immigration-reform-issues.blogspot.com/2011/08/legal-immigration-how-long-is-wait.html
Maybe Congress ought to work on that issue first? Just a thought . . . .
I find this real funny!
What you are all ignoring is just what that "Illegal" in illegal aliens means... What it means is, they don't have an SS#. Without an SS#, they don't pay taxes! Now, if they don't pay taxes, is it any wonder they can work for less than a legal citizen, that does have an SS# and does pay taxes?
We should be working overtime to get these people on the tax rolls!! Many of them have been living in the US for years, taking advantage of our system but paying NO taxes to help keep it afloat! Damnit, why are you fighting this??
Does Rand Paul support a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants?
Hopefully his policy would be to throw them out as should already have been done long ago in the past. Anyone who wants to enter the US must take the same path to citizenship and be considered a fugitive if they remain past their freshness dating.
Lil Michelle, the President is not the one empowered by the Constitution to enact laws governing immigration; Congress is empowered to create and enact immigration laws. The Executive Branch of government is charged with carrying out those laws. Read Article I of the Constitution and then the 14th Amendment. There is a very good and accurate article at FindLaw which fully explains the immigration laws enacted by Congress since the first Law in 1790. It just might enlighten you and others to read the article below. You will have to find it on the net. Then many of you will find that Congress does separate State and Federal Laws regulating and setting the requirements for citizenship and immigration.
Annotation 36 - Article I
Paul "gets it". If you want the Hispanic vote, make it look like you're going to fight for amnesty.
Obama knows that Hispanics don't vote Democrat or Republican, they vote for amnesty.
Paul's just trying to get on the boat with Obama and the Democrats.
OK, Hispanics vote for amnesty and government to take of them:
“The Republican Party calls for smaller government, but many Latinos look to government assistance as a necessity. Forty-two percent of Hispanic voters say that a government job offers the best chance of gaining career success, compared to only one-third of white voters.” - Michael Catalini – The National Journal
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/01/why-immigration-reform-wont-help-the-gop-win-over-hispanic-voters/272690/
Latino groups to Obama: You owe Latinos the election, now pass immigration reform
"Leaders of immigrant rights and Latino groups told reporters in a conference call on Wednesday that Obama owes his second term to Latino voters, and should repay them by passing comprehensive immigration reform. Obama promised to pass a law legalizing many of the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the country while he campaigned four years ago, and he's been chastised by Latino leaders for breaking his promise."
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/latino-groups-obama-owe-latinos-election-now-pass-194113601--election.html
hs321, Obama can't pass any laws. He can initiate policy, negotiate treaties, execute laws enacted by Congress and propose that Congress enact a particular law, but he can not legislate any laws. He can issue Executive Orders. It is the job of Congress to legislate and that includes immigration laws. This issue with illegals, mainly Latinos, has become so disruptive to the Nation and needs to be addressed by Congress. For your information it's not all about who these people would vote for but about cheap labor doing jobs we find beneath us. The farming industry, hotel/restaurant industry, construction, all lobby Congress to relax laws on illegals. It is more economic than political. Cheap labor and profits, and people who are willing to perform the most menial jobs in the Country. After all Reagan granted amnesty to almost as many illegals as we have today. Does that make it right, no, but the precedent as been set.
People who break the law shouldn't be rewarded.
Stand in line like everybody else. And learn English, too.
I love these fancy names the democrats give things .
Undocumented Immigrants = Illegal Immigrant AKA Trespasser.
New Revenue = More Taxes
It goes to prove , you can do anything if you have the Media on your side.
MY advise to all of these Undocumented Illegal Immigrants, "GET YOUR ASS TO THE BACK OF THE LINE"
This is coming from the Grandson of an Imigrant, a Legal One.
What @magyar2 said...
Undocumented! Mr. O Brian do you have a problem with the word illegal? Do you not know that the minute a person crosses the United States border without the proper authorization they become a criminal? These peopel have no right to be allowed to stay here, they all must be deported even if they have been here twenty or more years, period, no matter what the cost. If they come back then they should be charged with a felony and put in a prison, hopefully located in Texas where they would be forced to work under armed guard for their keep, even if that means on private property. The citizens of America are already paying for their keep anyway through free medical care, welfare, and food stamps.
Lil Michelle - yes, apparently ignorant buffoons like you need it spelled out! Now are you happy because you look just as stupid as you always do! And, of course, you want us to deport 11 million illegals. You have no idea how it would be done - since it is pretty much impossible - but in the world of small brains like yours, it happens! My God you get dumber every day!
where did I say that I want to deport anybody Seeking? Crawl back under that rock, you look stupid when you spout out gibberish.
Lil Michelle - no one ever looks as stupid as you. If you can't keep up with logic - disappear! You look more foolish every day you post. And, it's so telling you can't even think up your own insults but have to fall back on mine - YOU crawled out from under your rock today - as always. Try to at least show you have an original thought in that pea brain of yours. IQ 162 - in your dreams!
ok, so where did I say we deport someone, a claim in your first post?
Stupid - when they come up with a cure, I'll contact you SS!
You didn't mention deportation in any way, form or fashion. "Seeking" is just vainly trying to inject venom into an otherwise (and suprisingly) amiable conversation. Let's just see how many times "seeking" has attempted to offend: "ignorant buffoons", "look just as stupid...", "small brains", "get dumber every day", "no one ever looks as stupid as you...", "..look more foolish...", "...that pea brain of yours." I counted eight just on these few posts! Why don't you get a life "seeking"? Don't you have a line of hard working people to screw out of their money today? Or is it just a slow day?
Seeking Sanity has never actually found what he/she/it is seeking, so don't bother trying to explain logic to him/her/it, Michelle.
At least he/she/it is still seeking it. There may be hope yet. Nah, there is no hope, I was just funnin everyone.
Take it to Motel 6 ya'll!!!
LOL!
Agreed mag. SS is my least favorite poster on the entire site, but I do like LM's last response for SS.
SS has some sort of social disorder that makes them very unhappy and impossible to communicate with....can't post a single comment in opposition of someone without being an absolute prick. I can't imagine what happened to make someone so miserable.
Republicans = "Let's make it look like we are immigration reform when we really aren't"
Isn't that what their autopsy said to do?
If you are an ILLEGAL ALIEN, you should never, ever have a path to citizenship. You are a criminal and I don't want to grant somebody with a low code of ethics the right to vote.
We could, however, grant them Permanent Resident Alien Status.
Seeking so what you are saying is because it would be a hard task we should not do it. That is a mind that I hope I never have to work with or have as an employee. That type of thought process is NOT PRODUCTIVE. It shows what type of mind YOU HAVE
Mandatory E-Verify for every business and employee in the country will fix the problem of illegal aliens very easily.
90 day implementation period. After 90-days the company of anyone not E-Verified will be subject to a $1,000 per day fine.
Watch how fast the illegals would clear out if they couldn't work. No need for billions of dollars to remove the illegals - most all of them would voluntarily self-deport, leaving a much more manageable number for ICE to find and remove.
Sounds to me like you don't want to solve the problem at all so you spew bile.
There are about 20 million illegal immigrants in this country. Back in the Bush Jr. administration the Census Bureau was forbidden to use sophgisticated sampling methods to estimate hard-to-count populations such as the homeless and illegal immigrants. The Census folks wanted this because they knew that these populations, among others, were being seriously undercounted. The GOP did not want it because they saw it as putting more and more House seats into the hands of Democrats, styarting in 2020. And seriously, people, do you not realize that not all illegal immigrants are Mexican? There are huge numbers of Irish, Greek, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, and various Africans in addition to people from Mexico, and Central and South America.
It costs around $30,000 a head to give an illegal immigrant due process and deport him. A lot of this goes to the massive for-profit prison chains that house them. It is absolutely necessary because roundups of illegal immigrants frequently net lots of legal immigrants. Deport one of those and it costs more like $1 million.
But at $30k a head, multiply that by 20 million and you get $600 billion dollars. Oh boy, that's a good deal. But those Repuiblicans always take the most expensive way out of any situation, don't they. And my guess is that there are more than 20 million illegal immigrants here and that the true cost of deportation would rise dramatically as soon as a nationwide seep started and the people went into rabbit holes to stay with their families, keep their jobs, etc.
Always do the math first. Ain't nobody gonna deport 20 million illegals except in their dreams.
You can stay... but you can't VOTE for 12 years..... or get food-stamps.... or Medicare.... or ANYTHING until you have spent TWELVE YEARS as a NON-CITIZEN......
Under those requirements....... you can stay........... and if you go to jail... you start OVER after you get out, if we don't DEPORT you..........
I find this real funny!
What you are all ignoring is just what that "Illegal" in illegal aliens means... What it means is, they don't have an SS#. Without an SS#, they don't pay taxes! Now, if they don't pay taxes, is it any wonder they can work for less than a legal citizen, that does have an SS# and does pay taxes?
We should be working overtime to get these people on the tax rolls!! Many of them have been living in the US for years, taking advantage of our system but paying NO taxes to help keep it afloat! Damnit, why are you fighting this??
@EEngineer,
Actually, you are badly misinformed. Virtually all (well over 90%) of all illegal aliens have a Social Security number and pay Social Security, Medicare, and income taxes. They get counterfeit Social Security cards with the name of a deceased person or a living person in a different part of the country. They pay the taxes which then just go into Social Security or Medicare accounts and the income taxes go to the IRS and states and local governments.
The Social Security Administration can easily spot these counterfeit numbers. But the SSA is forbidden by law to give SS data to anyone --- and that includes law enforcement. So there is no data sharing with the IRS. But the end result is that the SSA and Medicare money and the income taxes that are paid by illegal immigrants are simply confiscated by the SSA and IRS and the states --- billions of dollars.
All people, including illegal immigrants, pay property and sales taxes. There is simply no way to exist in this country without paying everything from federal excise taxes on things like gasoline, and state and local sales taxes. If they have a car, they end up paying property taxes.
If you add up all the money that illegal immigrants pay into the "system", you will see that they actually use about the same or slightly less in federal and state services. This is partly because of the money they pay in, but also because most illegals are solo, in very good health, and require few services and in addition they avoid places like hospitals where there are people checking IDs.
SeekingSanity,
How do we deport 12 million illegals?
It is so simple it's mind numbing. Have the current administration uphold their oath of office and enforce the current immigration laws on the books. That is, start arresting and fining everyone who hires illegals. Soon, no one will hire them. There will be no work for them. Next, have the current administration uphold their oath of office and obey the law of the land and stop aiding and abetting the illegals by providing them with welfare.
There will be no incentive for them to come here, and no incentive for those here to stay. They will self-deport just like they did when our economy took a dive and the jobs dried up.
Problem solved.
Illegals get $4.2 Billion using fraudulent Tax Claims…
The Internal Revenue Service allowed undocumented workers to collect $4.2 billion in refundable tax credits last year, a new audit says, almost quadruple the sum five years ago.
Wage earners who do not have Social Security numbers and are not authorized to work in the United States can use what the IRS calls individual taxpayer identification numbers. Often these result in fraudulent claims on tax returns, auditors found.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/undocumented-workers-got-billions-from-irs-in-tax-credits-audit-finds/2011/03/23/gIQAhtaKvJ_blog.html?hpid=z3
SeekingSanity - can you EVER, EVER be in a conversation without calling someone names and spouting venom at anyone who has a different opinion other than your own? Keep looking for that sanity, because you obviously haven't found it yet.
Does Rand Paul support a path to citizenship for undocumented workers? I doubt it; he doesn't support desegrated lunch counters. But Paul does support banning hormonal contraception and invitro fertilization--where's that leave him on the libertarian scale of get government out of our lives?
Sheesh, that's desegregated lunch counters.
I do credit Rand Paul for recognizing that "fines" may be out of reach of many undocumenteds. That said, I do think some reasonable fine makes sense.
"In essence, his plan would distribute indefinite work visas to qualified undocumented immigrants in stages, allowing them legal status in the United States. Once those workers have visas, they would then have the option of applying for citizenship – though not necessarily with any preferential or expedited pathway."
It's called reading. Most people learn how to do this activity in grade school.
It occurs to me that all these staunch Republicans, even the wing-nuts, are starting to sound like "liberal" Democrats when it comes to certain topics, of which immigration is one of them. Next they will be catering to women and want them out of the kitchen and in shoes! Geeze, will miracles ever cease?
All they're doing is taking a page directly out of Mr. Obama's play book, you remember? When he granted by presidential decree that 800K undocumented immigrants were given blanket amnesty? Hmm, wonder how many hispanic votes he garnered for that maneuver?
That rates right up there with the "He's named after Ayn Rand" BS. I've already put this question to you once and I'm pretty sure you never answered it. I'll try again.
If "lunch counter" owners chose to not be segregated would you spend your dollar there or go down the street and spend your dollar at the place who chose on their own without government interference to "desegregate"?
This is 2013, this notion of keeping people segregated would've been gone already all by itself without the government's force. Unless of course you really think people (even liberals who seem to be all about fairness for everyone) wouldn't be capable of that thought unless it was forced upon them? If that's the case, well that speaks volumes doesn't it?
Scrambolo- not Republicans, Libertarians they're two different creatures that unfortunately have to play either democrat or Republican, because most voters aren't smart enough to realize there are more than two parties.
Republicans = We will only win elections if we look Democratic.
1SGTFitz, Rand Paul does NOT support the civil rights legislation that prohibits segregation; he thinks private business which serves the public should be able to discriminate. Now, lady, that's the truth--Candidate Paul made his views quite clear in his 2010 campaign.
NPCDan, I can read and believe it or not, my response was after having read the article. Paul does not support a path to citizenship, he supports a path to indefinite work at bottom of the barrel wages.
They are undocumented workers BECAUSE somebody hires them. Don't forget Mitt Romney, until he was running for President, he turned a blind eye to the undocumented (illegal) workers who took care of his lawn and home.
It would be really nice for the Republicans to grow a couple and man up enough to admit that it was entirely a GOP political maneuver that created the immigration mess. In the late 1970's and early 1980's it became apparent that the Latino population was increasing much faster than anyone had thought possible. But the Latinos basically did not vote. So Ronald Reagan and Ed Meese came up with a novel ideal. Why not give amnesty to all the illegal immigrants in the country. This would surely make all the Latinos love the GOP. So Ronnie gave unconditional amnesty to over 3 million illegal immigrants and conditional amnesty to another 4 million.
What this did was to create a situation where millions more immigrants came into this country illegally, figuring that the next Republican President would give them amnesty as well. But the Latinos did not switch and vote Republican because too many racism anti-Latino statement were made by too many Republicans. One nice thing the GOP did to chase off the Latino vote was to invent a new non-white race called "Hispanics." Hispania has, since Roman times, been where Spain and Portugal is now. People from Spain and Portugal are called Hispanics. Illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central American are not from Portugal or Spain. They are mostly American Indians. That's one way you lose votes, guys.
The Latinos have become important, not because of their numbers, but because since Latino AM radio, and then FM radio, then TV and no international Latino channels on cable, Latinos have organized and bloc vote with unprecedented solidarity. Right now one Latino vote is worth about exactly two "white" votes for that reason.
Jody- I'm fully aware of that, he supports the right to CHOOSE whether or not you want YOUR place of business to be segregated, not have the government force you to. He also supports our right to CHOOSE whether we want to be customers in a place that segregates. THAT'S the truth.
1SGFitzsWife4ID said
Jody- I'm fully aware of that, he supports the right to CHOOSE whether or not you want YOUR place of business to be segregated, not have the government force you to. He also supports our right to CHOOSE whether we want to be customers in a place that segregates. THAT'S the truth.
I was born and raised in the South and have lived there all my life. I'm sorry to inform Senator Paul, but we're the reason there is a Civil Rights Act. I don't suppose you remember restaurant owner and former Georgia Governor Lester Maddox standing in front of his business with an axe handle daring any Black to enter.
At the time I would have stood with him, because like so many I thought the Government overstepped it's bound into State Rights. I came to realize that it was an individuals rights that were really being suppressed and that is why we have Civil Rights laws today. You would think that has all changed, but just below the surface is still that racism. If we lived in an ideal world where we see no color and carry no bias towards others, we wouldn't need to enact such laws. The world is not ideal and neither is the U.S.A.. We as Whites can say that we aren't prejudiced but since the very beginning Blacks and indentured were considered property with no rights. That created a culture that we are superior and they are lesser. That belief is still right there ready to erupt. Some of you will still argue that its a States right, but what do you really believe. Why do you think we had to create laws to bring about equality??
Imagine just how difficult it will be to round up and deport all illegals and then imagine how you would secure the banks of the Rio Grande. To truly stop the illegals can't happen on our side of the border it has to start in Mexico and all of South America. You see all those crossing aren't Mexicans but from all of South America. In a sense you have to admire people who give up all they have to make the trek North just to find any kind of work. On the other hand it puts an enormous burden on our system. A guest worker program would go along way in helping solve the problem. Again I ask, how do you expel 11 million people?? As I've posted before many industries in the Nation lobby Congress to relax laws on immigrants from our southern borders. They do this because of profits and the fact Americans will not do the menial jobs these immigrants perform. When you take time and think about it, almost every bill or law our Congress passes is all about the money!!!
You just made my point (and no I don't remember as I wasn't born yet, maybe that's the difference?)
Personally, I would've looked at him and said "fine, I won't spend MY money in your establishment then," and gone down the street to the place that WOULD serve people of all races, how long do you think Mr. Maddox's establishment would've stayed open?
Though i also see your point because, yes the government DID overstep it's bounds into state rights, but where you and I differ are: Yes, individuals rights were being suppressed, but AS an individual it's MY duty to stand up and say this isn't right so I'm choosing to take my business elsewhere.
This is crap, I'm sorry. EVERY race has been a slave, EVERY race has been thought lesser of, EVERY race has been persecuted throughout history, my ancestry, I'm German and Jewish quite a combo eh? Yep, my Great-Grandfather was a nazi, the woman he married, bore the tattoo until the day she died.
Yes there are people in this world who believe that they are superior and others are lesser, but it has been that way since the dawn of time, the federal government stepping on the 10th amendment will never change that.
NPCDan:
RE: your post #3.6
You are either lying or dreaming, take your pick. President Obama DID NOT grant blanket amnesty to undocumented immigrants EVER! In fact in his first three years as president he deported more illegal immigrants than George Bush did in his entire eight years as President. Take your BS to Fux Noise and maybe they will believe! You could also use Google to search for yourself if you want the TRUTH!
Sorry about that, gremlins won't edit or put posts where intended.
Jody - love the bunny!!! :-)
SS, he is cute! Makes me think of spring which seems determined not to arrive regardless of the date.
True to its motto, MSNBC has been leaning forward. To the point that its opinionated programming far outweighs its “factual reporting,” according to a new Pew study. While Fox News, too, had more opinionated programming, the network had a much smaller discrepancy between opinion and straight reporting. The study — which came as part of Pew Research Center’s annual “State of the Media” report — states that opinionated programming comprised 85 percent of MSNBC’s airtime (versus 15 percent of “factual reporting”). Meanwhile, Fox News had opinion 55 percent of the time, with 45 percent straight news.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2013/03/18/pew-study-finds-msnbc-the-most-opinionated-cable-news-channel-by-far/
You do realize, Steven, there is a difference between factually-based opinion shows such as MSNBC provides, and nonfactually-based ones that FOX provides--well, maybe you don't.
There's only so much news on any given day. it stands to reason that the rest of any 24/7 cable network airtime will be filled with discussion of various issues, events, news.
LMAO! So you're calling the dribble that msnbc puts out as "factual"? That's funny, seeing as how msnbc consistently rates toward to bottom of ALL new outlets. Msnbc hasn't put out a "fair and balanced" news article since 2008.
factually-based opinion shows such as MSNBC provides
Thanks, I hope I didn't ruin my monitor when I spit coffee all over it. Thanks for the laugh, that has to be the best one I have heard this YEAR.
@Jody
WOW.....not living in denial much are we???? And there in lies the problem, the polarization of America. Never wanting to hear an opposing viewpoint even if based in fact.
I believe everyone recognizes MSNBC as programming liberal based opinions. Their tag line is move forward, so they even admit this.
Fox News tag line is fair and balanced, which is a complete misrepresentation.
Now I would be willing to bet my house that the liberal Rachel Maddow's IQ is higher then Glenn Beck, Hannity or any other of the past or current Fox News red meat entertainers.
First Read and Chuck Todd's team does provide a pretty fair perspective on politics. If you do not like the reflection don't blame the mirror.
Hmm...lets see...
Dr. Rachel Maddow - BA, Stanford University...Rhodes Scholar...PhD, Oxford University
Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity - ALL COLLEGE DROPOUTS
It was reported earlier today that the Fox News Network is changing their major slogan to compete with MSNBC's now famous "Lean Forward"... Theirs will be "Rock to the Side" in recognition of the fact that they mostly just pass gas at you.
Jody or Judy what ever your name is. You comment is just like most of MSNBC an opinion that is not factual.
Have you noticed that MSNBC will only allow discussion on topics it wants? They publish garbage all day long that cannot be argued, facts cannot be given, or differing opinions stated......
So much for FREE SPEECH...........
Is Congress still on vacation? Why are all these guys giving speeches when they have their own jobs to do?
Hope that's not an illegal alien squirrel on his head.
Hope that's not an illegal alien squirrel on his head.
He could have a "doo" like Uncle Joe. Some of that Obama "transparency" on his head. Looks like Hussein is needing some "Just For Men". He has more Salt than Pepper now.
No citizenship WITHOUT a penalty for breaking the law in the first place AND going to the back of the line.
You forget "No soup for you"!
If you are an ILLEGAL ALIEN, you should never, ever have a path to citizenship. You are a criminal and I don't want to grant somebody with a low code of ethics the right to vote.
We could, however, grant them Permanent Resident Alien Status.
Have you met some of the natural-born citizens of this nation who currently have the right to vote?
Joe, from Kalispell, I do hope in your next life (if there is such a thing) you come back dirt poor in a place that will not give you the opportunity to support yourself or your family and LEARN what good, but desperate people sometimes do. Obviously, compassion is not something you ever learned in THIS life!
Funny how just a few years ago there were so many politicians under fire for hiring alien workers.... and who attacked them the most..... the MEDIA.....same ones on the other side of the street now....
I wonder how many of Paul's constituents employ illegal aliens while opposing any attempts to beef up systems to verify a right to be employed...confiscate a few business and farms and the hypocrites will stop hiring illegals and they will go home because of no jobs...
More of the Liberal Brotherly Love? Starve them out.
confiscate a few business and farms
Then we can try & cut down on the number of people that ACTUALLY pay taxes.
Excuse me, but, are you advocating tax evasion?
Mandatory E-Verify will fix the problem easily but it's too simple for politicians as nobody makes any money off of it and the companies will lose their illegal labor force.
And don't forget....secure the borders....without that you have no good reason to move forward on this issue.
Political borders are artificial. Impossible to ever secure. Lines drawn on paper. The Native Americans were here long before those lines were drawn and long before the Europeans arrived.
We need to Stop ILLEGAL immigration! They're not just doing jobs that Americans don't want. Do they pay taxes? Don't get me wrong most of these people work very hard, but are a drain on the system if they don't pay taxes, have healthcare coverage, learn the language or get paid wages that are in line with their American counterparts. Who's footing the bill for the education of their children and the infrastructure around them? We all know that the health care provided to uninsured illegals here in the states is being averaged into our hospital costs and our insurance premiums, which have PROPORTIONATELY increased along with illegal immigration over the last 20 years? These costs are also being passed along to Medicaid and Medicare, which means that not only are they increasing our insurance premiums, but that we're paying for them again with our tax dollars.
Our tax dollars and insurance premiums should not be used to recoup the cost of healthcare given to illegal immigrants, who shouldn't even be here in our country in the first place.
To the people that disagree, we should ask them should this: If a few illegal immigrants knocked on your door and demanded that you pay some medical bills for them, would you pay them?
Just look around and you'll see who's doing 90% of the residential renovations, construction and property maintenance jobs. That's certainly what we're seeing in the northeast. These are not just jobs that Americans don't want.
Unfortunately the hiring of cheap illegal labor causes a chain reaction. The contractors who hire cheap, uninsured, non-taxpaying, ILLEGAL aliens undercut the contractors who hire US Citizens or Legal immigrants. Even if the contractor wants to continue to employ US Citizens or Legal tax-paying immigrants, they end up replacing their Legal employees with illegals just to be able to get the work.
Let's get the good productive ILLEGAL Aliens into the system and paying federal and state income tax or get them out and not let more in unless they come in as Legal Immigrants. Make them apply for legal visas and or U.S. citizenship and if they don't, then get them out. If they get rejected get them out or give them one quick appeal and if they still get rejected, then get them out.
Let's send the bad ILLEGAL Aliens back to where they came in and let's put a stop to more ILLEGAL Aliens getting in.
When you want your lawn mowed for only 20 bux, you support illegal immigrant. When you only pay less than $1/lb for tomatoes in grocery store you support illegal immigrant. When you only pay less than a few bux per pound for meat you support illegal immigrant.
When you don't want any of those to change, you support illegal immigrant.
The problem is that like so many Small businesses the ones that more often then not create the jobs that hire the undocumented workers if they did not pay low wages and offer no health benefits their business model would fail.
In our country, when you remove Medicare, Medicaid, and TriCare the lack of healthcare coverage is a universal problem that impacts all races, citizens and non citizens. It is the biggest cost and contributor to our National debt and is why so many Presidents Republican and Democrat looked to achieve Universal Healthcare, and why Obamacare is critical to our nation.
Comprehensive immigration reform is equally important it should include work visas, paths to citizenships, fair wages for citizens and non citizens, and stronger border security.
We also need to put more burden on the businesses to pay fair wages, as a taxpayer I do not believe it is right that American taxpayer subsidizes the low wage employees of a billion dollar corporation like Walmart for the same reasons you described above healthcare, food, housing, and etc...
American By Birth Southern By the Grace of God... well said, sir.
If I want my lawn mowed for less then 20.00 I call my neighbors teenage son, when I want tomatoes I go to my neighborhood vegetable stand.
Rand Paul is yet another politician that is not listening to We The People.He's pandering to the industries that hire illegals,industries with jobs that Americans used to do. American by birth,Those small businesses that you state could not be in business if not for illegals,I say tough.Maybe they shouldn't be in business in the first place if they can't hire Americans first.
American - if a company can't afford to hire a legal worker and pay taxes it doesn't deserve to exist... another company will spring up to serve the need and competition will result in the lowest possible prices.
The scumbags who clamor for illegal alien labor should all be shot since they are screwing over all of us and depressing our wages.
If you don't wash your own car, cut your own grass, cook your own food, grow your own food, clean your own house and office, take care of your own kids and elderly then you are as much of the immigration problem as anyone.
American . . .
I hadn't thought of it but Tricare DEFINITELY needs to be tossed into that mix! Great posts today by the way. Appreciated this comment . . .
Technically, as a libertarian Rand Paul should be a proponent of open borders.
Border control constitutes government interference with the right of businesses to choose from as large of a pool of labor as possible. I don't think there were any restrictions on who could enter or leave the country during the time of the Founding Fathers!
McGee... And are you aware that during the time of the Founding Fathers you mention that the population of the Western World was a nano-decimal number of people compared to our 300,000,000 Americans today?
If Thomas Jefferson, James Madison (who wrote our Constitution), and Benjamin Franklin were alive today, they would shudder to see the the millions of law-breakers from foreign countries crawling into our land figuring that America owes them a living.
Charity begins at home. Or we won't have a home any longer.
Excellent point.
FYI, I was playing devil's advocate. While open borders is a tenant of fundamentalist libertarianism, it would be completely unrealistic in today's world.
Personally, as a moderate libertarian I support bringing our troops home from overseas and stationing a healthy fraction of them on the southern border.
It is good to see that Senator Paul is softening his postition on immigration. What he suggests is a good first step. I find the rare situation of actually agreeing with him. First we need to identify illegals and get them to a legal status on a case by case basis. Those who desire citizenship could apply with no special treatment with one exeption. Children, brought here illegally who have basically grown up as Americans should be the only ones with any quick path to citizenship only because they are Americans in every way but by birth. Yes, there can be a fine on those who came here illegally. It doesn't have to be a huge fine and could be paid in the form of community service or something like that. Those serving in our military could also escape red tape, fines and ensure a pathway for themselves and their families. Any punitive measures should be achievable by low income people. It has to hurt a little but just enough to make an impact and send the message that our laws were broken and they must be fined for doing so. Quick hearings in immigration court could take place with several an hour. Make it short and sweet.
Maybe he will spend 13 hours talking to no one about it.
Ahh...Republicans. They always end up come around to Democratic positions eventually. Next....gay marriage.
VIPP, yes, you know what they say, "Republicans love to sing the praises of Democrats, dead Democrats". Wasn't FDR awesome and how bout give em hell Harry and of course the legendary JFK and LBJ advanced the cause of civil rights, etc, etc. Too bad the right demonized everyone of them back in the day. Their motto should be "a day late and a dollars short". They are invariably behind the curve on every single social issue.
It is because the GOP has to slow down and wait for their knuckle dragging Neanderthals that make up some of their base, and they have to appeal to them to get elected in precincts where the morons are the majority.
Look no further then your neighborhood tea party for examples.
Oh yes, I remember just a couple of years ago when Obama was touting his Regan-like public works/jobs plan.........wait, nevermind, Obama's a D and Regan is an R.....sorry.
By the way, did those shovel ready jobs every make it out of the theory stage?
in my opinion getting them undocumented aka illegals to the front of the line is the only travesty that is called amnesty... otherwise everything else is nowhere close to "rewarding lawbreakers" as they put it..... so just get it done damit.
Obviously Michael O'Brien, the author of this piece, is not familiar with the English language and the US Constitution. Millions of illegals in US is INVASION, according to the English Dictionary. According to the Constitution, US government is obligated to protect the US from foreign invasion by any means.
ANOTHER Moron trying to read.
Start off with the Cat in the Hat, and work yourself up to the Dictionary and Constitution.
That was a good idea you gave to Mark, American. But It looks like you might want to take your own advise and learn some reading skills like comprehension. It is hard for liberals, but you can do it, I have faith in you. However, it would also help for you to get out of your moms basement.
Agreed, good idea. Which book are you on American, The Sneetches?
Between our last "amnesty" in 1986 and today, Republican Presidents have held the WH for 14 years (Democrats 12 years), and there has been a Republican Congress for 14 of those 26 years.
One would have to conclude that both Party's are to blame for illegal immigration during those years.
Rand Paul needs to be removed from Congress. He supports American freedom and liberty where 51% of Americans no longer embrace this. With people like Rand Paul in office, Obama will never or at the very least have a hard time getting America away from it's founding principles of freedom,liberty and equal protection under the law.
sonmanvb, i can just imagine what kind of scum you are to say those things. To even be Pro Obama, you are either a fag, hispanic or an idiot and have no idea of why America is here. Obama is the worst thing to ever happen to America and i can guarantee you one thing, he will be gone soon and America will get back on track to being what it used to be. You continue to be on Obama's side and see what happens, you will all fail and be destroyed.
bradleybb12, please study up on "sarcasm".
lol They really need a sarcasm button, either that or people need to lighten up. Good post sonmanvb, made me giggle.
Where Sen. Paul has erred is in not requiring that the border be fully secured before addressing the status of the illegals who are already here. It's like trying to clean up a flooded basement before turning off the water source: futile.
Hell, Steve, that's the modern Democrat way. What else would you expect?
There is already a plan in place, folks. It is called 'get into the country legally', then study and apply for citizenship. If you are here illegally, you need to go back to your home country and follow the laws governing how to get into this country first before you expect to get to stay here. The 'plan' already exists. Use it or be deported. Simple.
People who broke our laws to sneak into the country should never be allowed to become citizens. The most they should be able to do is to get a worker visa.
If they are here illegally they should be deported, simple as that. We have laws already in place, if we would enforce our laws we wouldn't have all these dang illegals running around like cockroaches living off of us. Go to Wal-Mart any day of the week and you will find them everywhere using our money to buy food, once you see them arrest them and ship them off. VEry simple concept to follow.
We need to Stop ILLEGAL immigration! They're not just doing jobs that Americans don't want. Do they pay federal and state income taxes? Don't get me wrong most of these people work very hard, but are a drain on the system if they don't pay taxes, have healthcare coverage, learn the language or get paid wages that are in line with their American counterparts. Who's footing the bill for the education of their children and the infrastructure around them? We all know that the health care provided to uninsured illegals here in the states is being averaged into our hospital costs and our insurance premiums, which have PROPORTIONATELY increased along with illegal immigration over the last 20 years? These costs are also being passed along to Medicaid and Medicare, which means that not only are they increasing our insurance premiums, but that we're paying for them again with our tax dollars. Our tax dollars and insurance premiums should not be used to recoup the cost of healthcare given to illegal immigrants, who shouldn't even be here in our country in the first place.
Let's get the good productive ILLEGAL Aliens into the system and paying federal and state income tax or get them out and not let more in unless they come in as Legal Immigrants. Make them apply for legal visas and or U.S. citizenship and if they don't, then get them out. If they get rejected get them out or maybe just give them one quick appeal.
I haave a much better way to solve the problem of Illegals than Rand Paul, Obama, or any other politician. We need to have a big ole Texas Type round-up of all Illegals. Catch everyone of them and take anything they have away to help pay for the round-up. Take them directly to the border and hand them there deportion papers right there. Kick everyone of the free loaders out of the United States, Really man the borders and shoot to kill if any one is caught in a so called red Zone that must be set up.
Very human of you.
I had a different word for it.