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Subscribe to RSSSen. Rand Paul explains portions of his immigration reform plan on Tuesday while speaking at the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce Legislative Summit.
With a growing social media fan club and a CPAC straw poll win under his belt, Sen. Rand Paul is sounding a lot like his famous father -- the former presidential candidate and Texas congressman, Ron Paul, whose limited-government philosophy made him a libertarian icon.
But on immigration, it’s a more complicated story.
The younger Paul made headlines Tuesday for embracing an immigration strategy that would eventually offer legalization and a possible path to citizenship to undocumented workers currently residing in the United States.
“I think the conversation needs to start by acknowledging we aren't going to deport 12 million illegal immigrants,” he said during remarks at the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. “If you wish to work, if you wish to live and work in America, then we will find a place for you."
Paul said that he supports a legalization process that would not force illegal immigrants to return to their country of origin before obtaining a visa, adding that he’s not “a fan” of some proposed steep fines that such immigrants would have to pay.
“I think a lot of these immigrants are workers who don’t have a lot of money,” Paul told reporters Tuesday. “I’m more [about] wanting it to be at least enough time that people are becoming part of America, assimilating, knowing about America before they become citizens.”
In his remarks, Paul used the word “compassion” three times in the span of just a few minutes to describe his stance towards those in the country illegally.
Cut to 2007, when the older Paul, during his bid for the Republican presidential nomination, launched a foreboding campaign ad featuring visuals of undershirt-clad young Hispanic men swimming across the border, sprinting through the desert and being roughly searched by white police officers.
“Today, illegal immigrants violate our borders and overwhelm our hospitals, schools and social services,” a narrator boomed in the ad, contrasting current lawbreakers with early immigrants who “led productive lives.”
“No amnesty,” the ad warns. “No welfare to illegal aliens. End birthright citizenship. No more student visas from terrorist nations.”
In the 2008 GOP debates – which featured immigration hardliners Reps. Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter along with Paul – the Texas congressman underscored his opposition to “amnesty.”
“We subsidize illegal immigration,” he said at a New Hampshire primary debate in 2007. “We reward it by easy citizenship, either birthright or amnesty.”
The elder Paul softened that stance in the 2012 election, writing in his 2011 book Liberty Defined that most illegal immigrants come to the U.S. “for survival reasons” and have “a work ethic superior to many of our own citizens who have grown dependent on welfare and unemployment benefits.”
(His book, in fact, earned him the ire of immigration-reduction advocacy group NumbersUSA, which gave him an “F” grade for his new positions.)
But while the differences between the two men may not be as stark now, that booming “no amnesty” warning makes for a jarring comparison to Paul’s senator son, who on Tuesday waxed eloquent about the love poetry of Pablo Neruda in describing his embrace of immigrants.
“How can we not embrace such passion?” he asked. “How can we not want that culture to merge with and infuse the American spirit?
NBC’s Mike O’Brien contributed to this report.
This story was originally published on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:21 PM EDT
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Well of course he has two stances. This way, he can move from one to the other depending on who he is addressing! Typical Republican!
No kidding Seeking! He's already labeled his flip and his flop for future reference!
Rand Paul stikes fear into the hearts of Liberals for some reason...
You can start Ryan by not being such a xenophobe and stop
fillusteringscaring people sitting in STARBUCKS.Rand Paul Exploits Drones Grandstanding With False Fundraising Letter
Dear Patriot,
My 13-hour filibuster yesterday is being called one of the longest in U.S. history.
I had been trying for more than a week to get a straight answer on whether or not the Obama administration believed it had the authority to use drones to target and kill American citizens on American soil – without due process.
And after receiving a letter from Attorney General Eric Holder claiming they DO have that authority, I could no longer sit silently at my desk in the U.S. Senate.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/03/rand-paul-drones-filibuster-fundraising-campaign
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rand took all that time to get an answer to what he already knew. He can't be trusted. I would vote for a lying bigot.
Lil Michelle - Rand Paul strikes fear in no one's heart. We see him as the continuing buffoon who represents the rest of the right wing mental midgets like you. He's a source of disbelief and laughter - nothing more!
yeah, right! that is why FR has so many stories on Rand, and they are already trying to discredit him.
NBC = No Barack Complaints
Lil Michelle
Lil Michelle, you got that right.
Rand Paul is a scary little critter. I could never vote for a person who wants to take the county back to pre-slavery and Jim Crow days.
He, like his dad, wants to repeal the last 2 centuries of American progress. The nut doesn't fall far from the tree!!!
Lil Michelle: It is great to have you back. I missed you. A couple of days at the Large Hadron Collider and that Higgs boson particle is in your book. Noble Prize in Physics. Congrats! ☺
He's just the flavor of the month. Nothing more, nothing less. He is obviously priming himself and his small base for the possibility of a 2016 run.
Lil Michelle - because if FR didn't report on his stances, idiots like you would complain they aren't covering him. But you'll complain no matter what -it's what you wake up for every day!
The rest of your post again shows your lack of mental acuity! No surprise there!
Lil Michelle-
Republicans are the ones who should be afraid. If Marco Rubio, Rand Paul or (heaven forbid) Rick Santorum were to win the nomination it would definitely lead to a Republican loss in the presidential election of 2016.
Slimy, Crazy, and Crazier....
I'm glad to hear more and more Republicans talking about immigration reform. The party had a chance to get ahead on this issue when GWB tried to implement changes (one of the few ideas he had that I liked), and it cost them in 2008 and 2012. Hopefully they've learned their lesson and will really work with the Democrats to get this issue resolved.
Monitor clean-up on Layton's desk!
Again, Miss 162 IQ you seriously should learn where the spell-check button is on your posts. What IS a stike?
You're probably right AlaskaGirl. They will discredit everyone that isn't named Hillary or Biden... just a matter of time!
that way he can move from one to the other [stances] ..depending upon who he is addressing...........pretty much the same as our current POTUS does.
Proud and magyar - not an original thought between the two of you! Typical day for you guys - the same nonsense over and over! But, we expect no more from your ilk!
So does Bachmann. And Gingrich. And Santorum. And Romney. And Paul Ryan. Your point is?
(P.S. I corrected your English for you, Lil Mind.)
In what way, Michelle, is this article discrediting Rand Paul? Besides, are you going to try and tell me that the right wing media doesn't do its best to discredit any Liberal on a daily basis? Let's keep it real, okay? You could always find a right wing media website that bashes Liberals and allows comments. Then you would be with your fellow brethren and all would be in perfect harmony.
magyar27: Sweets, the only troll I see is you with your idiotic avatar. You and your kind really are not wanted nor welcome here, but we have to put up with you as even News for Dumb Fux can't handle the vileness that comes out of the mouths of your type. Now be a good little troll and behave yourself or we will collectively boot your ass out.
not fear - disgust. Here is a guy who preaches about not letting government get involved in people's lives but he wants to ban BIRTH CONTROL and IN VITRO???
Another freakin' hypocrite who is obssessed with vaginas.
so changing stance is different from 'evolving' how?
Libtard response will be when a Democrap does it its evolving
Rethuglican does it, its changing or flip flopping..
'I Know you are but what am I' and the perfect lead on this article was Seeking Approval
The dual stance is easily re-packaged into one wide one... I saw that scrawled somewhere on a men's room wall... It was signed "magyar27"...
You know, that famous braniac with the avatar above that then accuses others that THEIR "stupidity and insulting manner just illustrates how uninformed and inept you are as a person."
Proof positive that Whacked is stranger than fiction!
It's clear you don't understand what the difference is. And no effort to explain it to you would succeed.
AlaskaGirl-759554
AlaskaGirl
As evidenced by his fund raising letter from his political filibustering stunt
http://www.politicususa.com/fooled-eric-cantors-desperate-bogus-offer-raise-debt-ceiling.html
And his binder full of lies at the "CLOWNS POLITICAL ACTION CONFERENCE"(CPAC) !
magyar27
says the person who has no clue about the fact that Hitler would be a Republican if alive today.
Why don't you read about Hitler's ideology and what he represented: anti-gay, anti-union, anti-minorities, anti-poor...the list goes on.
Nazism = far right, it's not a secret. Turn off Fox News and pick up a book.
They allow comments? I thought they didn't do that.. y'know, invite dissenting opinion and reasoning. Wouldn't they get too many fact checkers to discredit their horsesh*t?
Spot on, Beverly!
As the great Bill Maher said recently about CPAC: "It's virtually a who's who of What The @!$%#?" Can't describe it any better than that, in my opinion.
That's interesting, RandomB! I guess it would be reasonable to say that is why FOX Entertainment shut down their comments forum. I always figured it was because even they couldn't handle the extremely vile comments from the nut jobs.
Bayllie,
I think Magyar27 is reading Mein Kampf at the moment. It was recommended to him by Hannity.
typical loon response...you have none... I love the school yard tactic.
Jackoff: Wanna Fight!
Caesar: Lets go
Jackoff: I would but you would lose
Caesar: Yeah, uh huh
Jackoff: You're not worth my time
Caesar: How bout you put your money where your mouth is
Jackoff: You're so lucky
Not a tactic, CA. You clearly don't understand.
The only thing that keeps you on your toes is the lift in your heels.
Nazism is really no different from the other damn ism. quit Lying Bayllie.. Lets see Communism/National Socialism are views that are shared by the LEFT regardless. Big Gov, ban speech that opposes your view, ban guns to defend, rely on A central figure and one party system...Progressive
it is...and keep lying to yourself about it too ;o)
Instead Jackoff, perhaps you can fokus on one of myspellings, that will give you the big Victory in Grand skeem. Spike that ball on the 20 yd line
ak girl -- tha same maher that siad this:
[It's clear you don't understand what the difference is.]
Rational thinking is not Cacafuego's strong suit.
[And no effort to explain it to you would succeed.]
Like yesterday when Forrest tried to explain to Cacafuego, gently I might add, why he was wrong concerning his always skewed version of the Constitution and he tucked tail and ran like the little bitch he is, ass in hand. Then he proceeded to cut and paste gun-related crap from Wiki in a failed attempt to make himself appear intelligent.
magyar - run from the likes of you? Not hardly. You represent the deadheaded far right who can't argue anything but always has to be seen with your abject stupidity. Nerd? What are you - 7 years old?
You truly represent all the pathetic, empty headed Republicans who find Palin, Rand Paul, Santorum interesting!
You're hardly one to talk about anyone being a nerd - reread your posts then slither back home little buddy!
Alaska girl, let the trolls post their drivel. The more they post the stupider they look and that can't be a bad thing, can it?
Democracy thrives on dissent and difference of opinion. Once in a while they might actualy say someting worth agreeing with. Rand Paul actually has been saying things that make sense with immigration. Rare as it is he is saying it.
So bring on the trolls. Let them gird themselves for battle armed with their swords of ignorance and their shields of stupidity. It is fun to see them go down and watch them squirm.
Chaesar Augustus-
I don't see where refusal to explain something simple to an ignorant belligerent such as yourself gets construed as a "bullying tactic"... But then again, I'm not a narcissistic sissified whiner so my views could be clouded...
Here you go... fetch!
A changing stance as opposed to two stances at once. Ten words. Each of them fairly short in light of the target audience...
Now go ahead and say out loud that you can't understand that...
Nope, a Liberal opinion is not the only view that is the right view, but if you can't even attempt to have a decent conversation with anyone (we've all seen some of the things you say) then your comments warrant what you get back in response from myself or anyone else here. Your avatar is a direct representation as to why you are not taken seriously and are treated as a troll. And, no, of course I am not an NBC(Microsoft not here for awhile now) FR monitor, but I can certainly gather enough "flags" to get your comments deleted, if warranted, and if it continues I can most certainly make your comments known to the moderators of this site. Ever since the lot of you scooted over here you have been mostly vile and contemptuous towards the Liberals. Many of you have nothing of note to add to a conversation. Any nasty comments myself or others may make are in direct reaction to the often nastiness that you and others post here. Under normal situations, we have very normal and candid discussions and we know how to disagree with each other without calling each other names.
Rand Paul:
Only Senator to propose legislation prohibiting the transfer of of military weapons to Egypt and one of only 17 to vote for his amendment
Filibustered the Senate floor for 13 hours to get legal clarification on the use of drone attacks against U.S. citizens
Consistently opposed to foreign intervention and occupation
Opposes foreign aid spending
Strong supporter of civil liberties
Supports comprehensive immigration reform
Voted against NDAA
Voted against Patriot Act
But the liberals here, failing to recognize any personal benefit from Dr. Paul's stance on those issues, will continue to bash him with simplistic, school-yard insults merely because he has an (R) after his name. The Liberals do indeed fear the growing Libertarian element of the Republican party. Liberty is scary.
or we can try what I asked Boy Blunder
changing stance vs evolving.
Well, go ahead say it out loud.
as opposed to having endless avatars of I LOVE OBAMA. OBAMA IS A DREAM. Blah Blah.
Hey I wonder what your opinion is on News for Dumfux..Bet you thought that avatar wasnt offensive..
no you cant. Quit your whining..you libs have tried this and have been exposed before. Geeze, just see Seeking Approval, Monkeyfuk Ny, Fisty for the precedence that has been set.. Everyone of you lib hypocrites have been weighed measured and found wanting..
Adler . . .
Great post. They all tend to run when asked for sources on their idiotic views.
Let's actually discuss illegal immigration. What benefit will America derive if we allow those who broke our laws -- laws if broken punished by at least incarceration in other countries -- who came to America illegally? Why should we allow a path to citizenship? What is their punishment for breaking the law if we allow them citizenship?
@DingleB -- and they will have no answers to that as most of the liberals on here are avoiding the story just released a few minutes ago that the Senate gun control bill will NOT include assault weapons ban. They have no comeback when actual democrats run and hide protecting themselves rather than the "little children."
Jack in Portsmouth
I disagree because if he did, he would not have used Obama as Hitler as his avatar.
[Hey I wonder what your opinion is on News for Dumfux..Bet you thought that avatar wasnt offensive..]
Cacafuego's rally cry: I know you are but what am I!
Poor little caesar @!$%#-for-brains can't seem to catch a break...speaking of breaks, how many does that make today? Just how much have you screwed your employer out of this week so far?
Monkey, what did you say about weapons bans and wrong side of history...HAHAHAHA
and sodas...LMAO @ YOU!!!!
Hey Magyar27 -- Maybe you can change your avatar to the recent insult to Satan in the series The Bible on the History Channel. Then you can watch more heads explode.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/18/watching-the-bible-on-history-channel-did-satan-remind-you-of-anyone/
[Monkey, what did you say about weapons bans and wrong side of history...HAHAHAHA and sodas...]
Just because you don't understand either of the legislations doesn't support your point. You just think it does.
How sad to be so stupid, eh caesar? Now run along, litle pussy.
Talk to the Hand that one yesterday...Lameton got annoyed by it...
I would never give Oblamo credit for being the AntiChrist. the Antichrist is a uniter (false pretences) not a divider...
Ah but Caesar Obama is uniting the ignorant low information voters.
Ah yes, the Borg Collective. nothing like a Hive mindset to demonstrate you're right and everyone else is wrong.
The good shepard Obama will lead the sheep right to the land of 'EBT and booze' on the backs of the middle class.
magyar27
your pic that you picked, and uploaded maybe? why the surprise since YOU are the one making the Hitler/Obama statement?
You want me to prove to MYSELF that there are parallels between the two? Do you sniff glue or something?
why don't YOU prove to me what these parallels are. I need a good laugh so I will be waiting impatiently!
I have no problem with people coming to America to become an AMERICAN........
Huge issue with not learning the language, accepting OUR customs, accepting OUR viewpoints, accepting OUR way of life..... bring your language, great food, customs, & ways of life..... but not to REPLACE ours.... merge your lives with ours to build a better, stronger America..... don't come here to re-create the world you left behind....
I did not migrate to your country..... you came to mine...........
CA
You know, I just may change that picture back for another day or two. Of course I will give Layton credit, she went where no other lefty all day did and admitted seeing it and knowing what it was.
And BTW, did you really look at it? I think Burnett and his wife did a great casting job.
Well of course he has two stances. This way, he can move from one to the other depending on who he is addressing! Typical Republican!
And hillary decided recently that she supports gay marriage now, typical democrat, changing her views to keep the stupid voters. It's pretty sickening that you all make fun of non-democrats for changing views, but completely support the democrats when they do the same exact thing.
The problem with the whole assimilation thing is these illegals will NEVER assimilate into our culture. There is absolutely zero pressure to do so. Our government will continue to cater to these lazy @!$%#s, continue to give them government aid (while at the same time requiring that legal immigrants do NOT get the aid).
Rand took all that time to get an answer to what he already knew. He can't be trusted. I would vote for a lying bigot.
Yet you voted for obama again, astonishing.
Kind of like Obama and his "black" voice, southern voice, midwest drawl. He started it. LOL.
i didnt really put two and two together until Lameton went all crybaby. But then again when the POTUS has to come out and splain' he aint a dictator, that should speak volumes...
I originally figured your Satan avatar was just a fallen Jedi Knight LOL
I don't trust this jerk. He's lying just to get elected, and then watch out.....
StoptheCannibals . . . .
Rand isn't going to go any further than his Dad did. He's just riding his CPAC high for the moment. Kinda like Mittens tried to do after the RNC and the first debate. Those got him nowhere as well.
Bayllie,
You have a point there. But how do you explain the fact that his views resemble Hitler's?
CA,
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Your misspelling and poor grammar reflect your thought processes: lazy and careless. If you took the time and really thought things through, you would (well, maybe might would be a better word) understand the difference between changing one's stance and evolving. But then again, the difference--while not subtle to those whose views evolve--is too subtle for you to grasp.
yes because it highly matters here Jackoff. A misspelling say Imperical vs Emperical (phonetic thinking) really showed i lack any understanding...even though the word's context was used correctly, just misspelled..Hey whatever you have to say to yourself champ ;o)
So be kind to a dumazz knuckle dragger and just splain it to me..in layman's terms...readers digest version...
Here's the rub Jackoff. while i do understand the difference, it's really about perception. That's why you really can't answer the question. See your simplistic and feeble mind view it as Democrats, benevolent in nature assuredly, stances evolve on the political stage. In the same thought process view Conservatives as knuckledragging Reichwing, bible thumping gun toting, knuckledraggers. Reality, it's about perception. Perception does not equate to reality no matter how many times you click those heels. So you in Reality here you have no evidence of changing a stance is not evolution or vice versa. Just a cutesy way of defending 'your' side's actions or inactions. Oh well Jackoff, while you try to promote being an ubermensch of the intellectual world, the farther away from it you get. Too subtle?
[i didnt really put two and two together...]
Of course you didn't...or couldn't...you're too stupid. Must be that "being on the wrong side of history" thingie.
Mickey,
But it could also be the "careless and lazy" thingie.
Or, as you say, it could simply be a case of stupidity.
Either way he's a loser.
[Either way he's a loser.]
Cacafuego is a deflection, inside a hypocrisy, wrapped in an enigma.
Stop the Cannibis?!?
Oh, the horror...
Cacafuego - That's some funny stuff there, Mickey. Wish I had thought of it.
[Cacafuego...]
Actually BCWC came up with that little pearl. Gave his blessing to use it, said it describes the little toad to a "T".
Amnesty... Assimilation... Deportation
Deportation.
Paul is just like disgraced Republican Larry Craig, two stances. Wide and the one when you get busted by vice cops.
The Tea Party: because dirt stupid is the new smart.
magyar, pay no mind to boy blunder, besides Monkey comes to his rescue (its a greek thing)...
Yeah and apparently you have to be a Constitutional Scholar to understand the Constitution. Kinda like Obama and the ACA or how bout the EDNY you said won the argument weeks back? Funny, here we are today and Status Quo. Same with the soda...OUCH Chessboy....Dont worry Monkey you cant debate or defend anything, you have your lackeys do it...As Morgs said, yep nothing but insults like a good libtard stormtrooper..well CacaFuego just handed you your ass....
Fortunately Mickey the bill not going through means YOU ARE ON THE WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY!!!!! Damn Man, pull your head out
So Monkey, calling me a litle pussy didnt win you the argument, but Jackoff loves you.. Touche little fella
[Fortunately Mickey the bill not going through means YOU ARE ON THE WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY!!!!!]
Still too stupid to understand what happened, aren't you. Keep on displaying those killa debatin' skillz, my little First Read coward. Keep you're eye on the spelling errors like a good little bigot... You'll never see it coming.
Rand Paul is playing politics...making Latinos think he is for immigration reform without putting facts on the table. When he says you can have work permits...that is far from citizenship and he never states how long one has to wait to get it. Even those living here for many years..he never states how long...and that is because one report I read indicated ten years to get the right to apply for citizenship and another three to get citizenship. ..so thirteen years is what he and his cohorts are indicating quietly. They really do not want to give citizenship...just the right to work...for cheap. For someone to wait 13 years is ridiculous especially if they have lived her for many years. He refused to answer to Wolf Blitzer yesterday on the time one has to wait....he is fooling no one. He wants yu to work her but not vote here.
What's wrong with that Pat? People who come here LEGALLY have to do that and more.
There is a path to citizenship. It would be unfair to those that went through the process.... just to let everyone else gain citizenship via a presidential "executive order".
My understanding is, that's not the plan. What I've heard Obama (and some other Dems & Reps) talk about is allowing existing illegal immigrants to apply to become legal, and then go to the back of the line for citizenship.
This approach sounds reasonable to me...
Ron
Please explain why you think that the illegals who didn't follow the laws before,will now see the light and follow the new laws.I just wish someone wold ask one of these Washington idiots that question.
broker1 - they would follow the news laws because that is their ONLY way of ever becoming citizens. I realize that is beyond your mental grasp but try to understand. Or have a liberal explain it to you - in very small words!
seeking sanitation
That was their ONLY way of becoming citizens before.Great argument there. Geez,I can't believe even you posted something that dumb!Wait,looking at your other post,I can believe it.LMAO
Changing the rules to effectively reward them for breaking the law before will only encourage more of the same.
no amnesty! We've done it before on the "promises" from the dems they would secure the border -- still waiting but that's what you get for electing a regime that rewards the lawbreakers and tax takers. Time to reward the providers, we contribute to the countries coffers everytime we GO TO WORK.
I'm having difficulty understanding Lil Michelle's opinion here. She complains that people are upset with Rand Paul's hypocrisy, but then says we already have a "path to citizenship" for immigrants, implying she agrees with those criticizing Rand Paul. I guess she doesn't have anything substantive to say, really.
Dortties girl, when you wake up every morning do you pray that you'll gain wisdom? You definitely SHOULD! If you think that the immigration issue consists ONLY of those that have crossed the borders illegally you're very wrong. Many that are here came over on work visas, student visas, etc., using the correct path. Their visas have expired and they haven't left the country voluntarily. Many are in line to obtain citizenship and that backlog at present is at least a good 15 years behind.
Also, what makes you think illegals don't work?????
We need to Stop ILLEGAL immigration! They're not just doing jobs that Americans don't want. Do they pay taxes? Don't get me wrong most of these people work very hard, but are a drain on the system if they don't pay taxes, have healthcare coverage, learn the language or get paid wages that are in line with their American counterparts. Who's footing the bill for the education of their children and the infrastructure around them? We all know that the health care provided to uninsured illegals here in the states is being averaged into our hospital costs and our insurance premiums, which have PROPORTIONATELY increased along with illegal immigration over the last 20 years? These costs are also being passed along to Medicaid and Medicare, which means that not only are they increasing our insurance premiums, but that we're paying for them again with our tax dollars.
Our tax dollars and insurance premiums should not be used to recoup the cost of healthcare given to illegal immigrants, who shouldn't even be here in our country in the first place.
To the people that disagree, we should ask them should this: If a few illegal immigrants knocked on your door and demanded that you pay some medical bills for them, would you pay them?
Just look around and you'll see who's doing 90% of the residential renovations, construction and property maintenance jobs. That's certainly what we're seeing in the northeast. These are not just jobs that Americans don't want.
Unfortunately the hiring of cheap illegal labor causes a chain reaction. The contractors who hire cheap, uninsured, non-taxpaying, ILLEGAL aliens undercut the contractors who hire US Citizens or Legal immigrants. Even if the contractor wants to continue to employ US Citizens or Legal tax-paying immigrants, they end up replacing their Legal employees with illegals just to be able to get the work.
Let's get the good productive ILLEGAL Aliens into the system and paying federal and state income tax or get them out and not let more in unless they come in as Legal Immigrants. Make them apply for legal visas and or U.S. citizenship and if they don't, then get them out. If they get rejected get them out or give them one quick appeal and if they still get rejected, then get them out.
Let's send the bad ILLEGAL Aliens back to where they came in and let's put a stop to more ILLEGAL Aliens getting in.
@ broker: The vast majority of illegal immigrants in this country really only violated one law......entered the country illegally. The vast majority in this country do obey the laws. Many of them, as we know, are the children brought here illegally. They have not broken any laws, in fact, many of them strive for American excellence, the American dream, and they do things the right and legal way. The only exception is how they got here. At the end of the day, they are here and we must deal with that. We are not going to send nearly 12 million illegals back to their place of origin. That would be disastrous for our economy.
AlaskaGirl
Your argument is that they only broke one law? Our prisons are full of AMERICANS who only broke one law.You still have not answered the question I asked.Why does anyone think that these illegals will suddenly see the light,and obey any new laws. After Washington passes the new laws and illegals don't obey them, then what? Do we just ignore them like we have been doing?
I gotta disagree with you AlaskaGirl. I do not think it would be disastrous for the economy. I agree that the vast majority are hard-working, good people. I don't doubt the lack of good intent with their coming here. But we have to approach this problem as a financial one, not humanitarian. The truth is, no matter their intent, the "vast majority" don't put into the system what they take out, in terms of taxes, health care, education, etc....
If we enforced our labor laws better, or even just gave tax incentives to companies that use e-verify to certify the status of its employees, we could help curtail this problem. We can fix the existing naturalization process, so that it takes months instead of years to get legal permission to come here and work.
I may be wrong; I live approximately 90 miles from the city of Philadelphia. I may not see all the problems. What I have seen is that these people strive very hard to assimilate into our culture. Our President will put them at the back of the line, but they will be legal and on the path to being good citizens.
And just why is the present "bunch" any better or more deserving than those in the past? We have and have had those laws to control immigration to the US. Why is it now that 12-13million get preferential treatment?
double-post...
Talk to the Hand
I want to be clear, since it was my comment you were responding to, that I didn't say we should allow the people here illegally to start in on the naturalization process. My point was, that for those who do play by the rules, the system as it currently is being run, is a long, frustrating, inefficient bureaucracy. It makes it appealing to not obey the law and go back when the work or student visa has expired.
The god of the conservatives, Ronald Reagan, gave unconditional amnesty to millions of illegals back in the 1980s signaling that it is okay to come here illegally as you will eventually be allowd [to stay. So many of them did.
I have seen the mood on immigration change over the past few years. Presidnt G.W. Bush and President B Obama have worked to help illegals become legal, not break up families, and possibly pay a penalty for not folloing our laws by coming illgally. These are not criminals but people who are desperate to feed their families and make a better life for their children. A few bad guys will sneak through and we need to deal with them as required.
Wholesale deportation would be costly and create unnecessary hardship for people on both sides of the equation. How would you like to pay 10 or 15 dollars for a head of lettuce or a half pint of straberries? That could well be the result of deportation of the cheap labor force from the migrant workers, most of whom were not born in the USA. A path to citizenship can be offered to those who want it but they have to go to the end of the line. They would need to take the citizenship classes and learn English. To be allowed to stay they should pay a fine at a level that they'll feel the pinch but not so bad as to make them a burden on society any more than they might already be. Joining the military or through community service they could pay the fine. Furthermore hefty fines on companies or individuals who hire illegals might go a long way in curbing the number of illegals coming here. If they know there are no jobs unless they come legally they aren't likely to come.
Random
I am asking for an opinion here,but do you honestly think when Washington reforms the immigration laws,these illegals will suddenly come "out of the shadows" and pay fines,then begin to follow the new reforms.Unlike some on here,I want jump you for your opinion.
Adler
Reagan gave amnesty with the promise to secure our borders.I don't think anyone could argue that ever happened.
broker1: What is the alternative, then? Even Rand Paul recognizes that deporting 12 million immigrants simply isn't going to happen.
Standing on principle is all well and good, except when a rigid principled stance has zero chance of making things better.
Yes, I do believe most, those who have nothing to hide, will come "out of the shadows", as you put it. If the fines are more like a slap on the wrist than execution they'll come out. Also they will know that getting legal status will be made easy and possible for them. These are not criminals but people who are only trying to make things better for their families just like your ancestors and mine did when they came centuries ago. Those who don't will be dealt with via deportation.
I agree that the borders werent secure. Reagan didn't secure them, Bush 41 didn't secure them, Clinton started to secure them but didn't go anywhere near far enough, Bush 43 did make some headway with that and Obama has got the most secure border ever. Maybe by the end of Obama's second term our Southern border will be a fortress, impregnable but by the most extreme means. I doubt it. Even the borders of East Germany weren't secure enoug to keep people from crossing them into West Germany and freedom.
Random, thanks for your follow up thoughts. I guess my point is, just because it is more appealing doesn't make it right to do. There are millions that wanted it so bad they put up with the symptoms you stated (I work with a couple of them) and did it the right way. Are we now into the "instant gratification" business for the rest of the world as well as our own spoiled ones?
Appreciate your discussion.
Ron
I could also make the same argument you did.If new laws don't make things better then what? My main point is that a lot of people are ASSUMING that illegals will jump at the chance to pay fines(in most reform versions)and begin to follow the reforms. My opinion is that some,not all, never had any interest in obeying the immigration law.
Adler
The coming out of the shadows is a pundit quote.I do not think that most are criminals,but I honestly do believe that a large number will not follow any new laws anymore than they did the old ones.Then what?? I just don't have that much faith in it.
broker1
Actually, I do think that if we were to give the illegals currently here a "path to citizenship", many of them would register, pay fines, and be happy. But, I think this is the wrong thing to do. If this happens, it will have the same effect the blanket amnesty back in the 80's had, signal a new wave of brand new illegal immigration, who will either present fraudulent documentation to qualify under the new program, or just wait out until it is there turn.
We can't secure the borders. That's a fantasy. All we can do is provide disincentives for coming and staying here illegally.
Random
I respect your opinions as well as Adler. In my opinion we already have given it a try, under Reagan,and still have not done any disincentives to my knowledge but just keep giving them incentives.We never learn from our past mistakes.
Talk to the Hand
You seem to agree that the red tape to come here legally is pretty severe. I think we should make it easier, not just because it's like the right thing to do, but because it's easier to justify saying "No" to amnesty if the process of legal immigration actually works.
Thanks for listening ;)
But the present system DOES work if adhered to and enforced. We have gone too long and too far without enforcement and turning the other cheek. I have two friends from New Zealand who are doing it the right way even though they could have parked (for their jobs) and stayed. After four years they and their respective families have attained "green" status and are happy for it and are following the path to citizenship gladly. It almost seems like the gun debate we are currently going round and round on. We are basically punishing law abiding people while letting the criminals carry on.
Thank you also. I guess we are done. Have a great rest of the day. : )
broker1,
Not only do they distrust our government, but many are content living in the shadows. They live in communities that are similar to there own country. Where I live you can see how the cultures are divided in our city. Drive through, and each community has there own markets, clothing, house of worship, all in their language.
Also, don't forget that if they become legalized they will start paying taxes, which will feel like a large pay cut. As an example you make $1000.00 weekly, and file single your net pay would be 708.01.
I used to work in a tool & die shop, and my employer wanted to change payroll, and start to deduct taxes from them, we lost over half within a month.
You all do realize that about half of the 12 million "illegals" in the US came here legally, right? Many of them came on valid visas from the UK, South Africa, and Japan on an airplane, not across a land border from the North or South, and overstayed their visas, making them undocumented (i.e. no status).
But everyone wants to talk about "securing" the borders from the South. Racist much? If you really wanted secure borders, you'd put more money into Homeland Security to follow up on all the I-92's that come here on visa waiver programs or valid visas to ensure they return home. But no one wants to do that because A) the government would need more money to make sure they return, which is antithesis to smaller government, and B) they are not Hispanic.
thetotas, we have the same "segregationism" where I live. Certain areas, certain neighborhoods, instant Spanish signs as you travel from one place to another. And where they aren't, they are catered to with bi lingual signage.
Unlike the immigrants of the past, they don't want to assimilate, just move their "stuff" to a different piece of ground.
And CRinCali - not in your state I'll wager.
broker,
In my post I was only intending to say I had heard a different version of the plans than Michelle - I wasn't trying to really take a stand...(yes, I did add that second line, but it was early and the coffee hadn't kicked in yet :-)
I think you raise some very valid points that need to be considered. I'm on the fence on exactly what to do with the immigration issue, but I do think action is needed. I don't think deporting 10+ million is a reasonable solution. Also, I have no problem with someone coming to this country to work so I'm ok with letting those immigrants that have jobs (or are part of a working family) stay - after they go through an appropriate background check.
I don't think the immigration issue will go away unless somehow Mexico becomes a stable, prosperous nation like Canada...and I just don't see that happening. (which is a shame considering they have the pieces needed to create a successful economy - work force numbers and tons of raw materials to fuel their economy)
I think, whatever we do today we need to assume millions more Mexicans will want to move to the US over the coming decades - so we need to plan for their arrival, or put up a big wall so they can't get here except on our terms.
broker1: I still don't see the alternative. It looks to me like there are 3 hypothetical (but only 2 real) choices: (1) deport 'em; (2) leave things the way they are; or (3) some reform along the lines that are emerging in recent proposals (including border security measures to minimize as much as possible the "incentive effect" you worry about).
If even half of undocumented families step up and pay a modest fine and get on the tax rolls, the benefits would be substantial.
With enhanced border security and a focus on deporting those who refuse to play by the rules, offset by real options for those who will play by the rules, we'll be making real progress in the right direction.
@ Ron
I'm not sure which of us he was replying to.
RonB: Many of these people do pay taxes. What is not done is file their 1040's. At the income most are and with dependents they do not receive their due refund.
They also pay their sales tax, local property taxes through rent, ext.
Exit0: that's what I understand as well. Still, I'm sure more than a few are paid under the table.
RobB . . .
I'm sure a lot more LEGAL "aliens" are paid under the table as well. (Didn't know what word to use! :) ) My ex totally avoided child support AND alimony by such methods. While I'm sure it happens, I would guess that issue is far more problematic in other scenarios.
Sure, lots of people get paid under the table for lots of reasons (e.g., they're on workers comp or SSD). But my sense is that a lot of undocumented immigrants would prefer to get right with Uncle Sam. For one thing, they're less vulnerable to exploitation.
RonB (sorry about the RobB above) . . .
Good point. Hadn't thought of it that way.
I've been called worse!
The "polls" indicate that the American population is becoming more of a Latino majority. So, it's not surprising that political hopefuls would lean more toward amnesty for illegals, something I don't agree with, but there it is nonetheless. I would never support any politician who advocates amnesty -- it equates to selling America for a vote and therefore is not trustworthy
Illegals harm America by being willing to work for less income than the standard wage. Employers who hire illegals are (unfairly) able to quote a job for less than competitors who follow the law by hiring those who are in our country legally. These employers, who hire illegals, don't, for just one example, pay the 7.65% matching social security and medicare tax required by our tax laws which are based on wages.
Further -- I don't understand why there is no sanction against employers who knowingly hire illegals - and why American schools allow and educate illegals.
There is a double standard -- excusing illegals who break our laws, and those who hire them, and the agressive prosecution of legal Americans who break the law -- huh
I didn't vote for Obama, I voted against Palin as Mr. McCain's VP -- I didn't vote for Obama, I voted against Romney. President Obama is a fine man, a gentleman, an able President, however I didn't, and still don't think that America was ready for a black man as president -- too many old prejudices -- but given the choices as presented by the Republican party in the last two elections, Mr., President Obama is/was the right choice.
@ Tired #2.39
Your arguments are all the more reason to make them legal.
RonB #-2.41:
broker1: What is the alternative, then? Even Rand Paul recognizes that deporting 12 million immigrants simply isn't going to happen.
Standing on principle is all well and good, except when a rigid principled stance has zero chance of making things better
This is a circular problem -- the legalization of "illegal immgrants" would require that they be paid minimum wage, pay income taxes, and the employers, accordingly, must pay the matching SS and medicare tax and the state employee tax, etc.. So, now American workers are on a level playing field as far as wage is concerned -- the tax base is increased -- all good -- until these employers hire more illegals replacing those who must be paid minimum wage -- and, if once done, they will again.
What will logically happen is that these legalized aliens, who are "replaced" by people willing to work for less, and who are now declared American citizens, and are not eligible to go on the government dole, will.
So, surely you realize that we have to say somewhere along the line -- STOP! -- We are an humanatarian society but we are on the verge of bankrupcy and cannot take care of you!
The key is actively and agressively prosecuting those people who employ illegal aliens, they are, after all, selling out America and are, in essence, traitors. Strong term I know, but there it is.
Rand Paul will never be President. Regardless of how many positions he takes on immigration. Republicans will again pick a Presidential candidate who is too conservative and bigoted for the country and Hillary Clinton will become our next President. And rightfully so. Clinton 2016.
She'll still have to answer for Benghazi -- karmas a beautiful thing. Of course you'd have to be a patriot with skin in the game to care, my guess is you only care as long as they fill up your EBT/Snap card and make payments on your sec 8 housing courtesy of the the money they steal from the taxpayer. What are YOU going to do when the government runs out of "other peoples money"?
Are you a social cripple Dottie or do you just play one on these dangdable interwebs?
@ chick binder
Did Dottie's post hit a little to close to home for you?
Dottie's girl (Dottie is still mortified she had you) - Benghazi? You're still stuck on Benghazi? Your small mind has one track and it's clearly full. You must be boring as hell at parties - one conversation then you're done.
When an ignorant far rightie like you falls back on the "welfare" whine - it shows how inept you are as an adult - as a human being. What a total idiot!
chick - yes, she is a social criple as is levithewonderdog!
"Wow when I grow up I want to be just like Seeking Sanity" said no child ever.
At times you are okay to talk with but most of the time it is insults. I know you don't give a rat's but I just wish for one month rather than everything coming from your keyboard toward an opposing opinion would be a rebuttal instead of name calling. Is that how you act in your professional life? But then I suppose being in California last weekend you fit right in.
Show some true intelligence in your responses instead of hate and disdain will ya? And I know you will come back with the "I respond to morons as morons" BS but no one is attacking you. They are stating an opinion.
Talk about social cripple, do you get along with anyone who has a slightly different view than you? Oh wait, I think I answered my own question.
Bubble gum.
@seeking
Don't even go to "still stuck on Benghazi" when I constantly see the left fall back to the "blame it on Bush" tactic, not to mention the playing of the race card every time you feel backed into a corner. I also notice that you just cant avoid name calling....sign of weakness!
Dotties -- You mean like the Vet's and seniors .those that have put 50 years in the work force. the ones former policys have forced to take min. wage jobs. those takers?
levithewonderdog - your entire post is a sign of weakness!
@SS
I see you have posted another well thought out response.....not.
When did having a country become racist? When did equal opportunity immigration rather than the current 30 to 1 advantage for Latinos become racism?
When did having a country become racist? When did having equal opportunity immigration instead of the current 30 to 1 advantage for Latinos become racism?
Trying to say Benghazi is equal to the devastation W. caused on this country is like trying to say drinking a glass of water will cause a flood. Give this twisted logic a break already righties. You make yourselves look foolish all over again as people remember $3 trillion in waste, 10,000 American lives lost, 35,000 injured and economic devastation, all because of W. My casualty numbers are probably low.
Benghazi is just the beginning, not only that, but its not going away. The president promised that they will track down the people responsible and hold them accountable. Its been six months and we have nothing.
Don't you think it makes us look weak, which will embolden the people that wish to harm us?
AnaBanana,
I disagreed with Iraq from the start, but the Democrats could have stopped if from happening if they wanted to. And, they could have pulled the funds along the way at pretty much any time after it was started. Iraq was (is?) a screw-up of massive proportions by both parties. I do give Bush and the Republicans the majority of the blame, but I'm not going to give the Democrats a complete pass.
Having said that, I agree that Benghazi is nothing compared to Iraq.
OMFG!
A WHOLE 6 months!!!!
OHHHH the HORROR!!!
Remind us again how long it took to get Bin Laden..?
I believe it was longer then 6 freakin months, where was your phony outrage then?
If it weren't for double standards, you clowns wouldn't have any....
the totas . . .
The beginning of WHAT???? Are we in the MIDDLE of whatever it is you are referring to???? Are we at the END???? So curious!
[Don't you think it makes us look weak...]
Maybe it makes you look weak, but is surely doesn't make the U.S. look weak. Tracking down sombody to the ends of the earth was never a GOP strong point.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/14/world/africa/benghazi-attack-suspect
I will second Layton on that, and to add to Feisty's comment: Are you a @!$%#ing moron?! Toto, you have such a hard on about Benghazi that it borders on ridiculous. Get a life, get a clue, toto.
AG,
Yada,yada, yada. Bunch of grow a@@ adults talking smack, and you guys want to be taken seriously?
What ever happen to commend decency?
Who's that "WE" you're referring to, Sen. Paul? Could you mean "GOVERNMENT?" But doesn't a government role in society go contrary to your Libertarian views, Sen. Paul? That's the bigger flip-flop here...not immigration.
Ursula, you continually have the uncanny ability to get to the real root of someone like Ayn Rand Paul. Thank you for underscoring the "we" in his statement. It really does speak volumes doesn't it? Or, could it be that he and his fellow tea people are going to "sponsor" illegal Hispanics all with their own savings? HA!
AlaskaGirl-759554
Yes she did; AlaskaGirl
But, let's expose the Ann Randian worshipers. Ann Ryan lived on welfare.
Ayn Rand Railed Against Government Benefits, But Grabbed Social Security and Medicare When She Needed Them
http://www.alternet.org/story/149721/ayn_rand_railed_against_government_benefits,_but_grabbed_social_security_and_medicarewhen_she_needed_them
Moreover, he and his dad are bat sh!t racists who criticize people for the very thing their idol did.
Or, maybe he means our society will be open to them and they can start to build their life legally - just like a US citizen can do today. Since Rand Paul is a small-government person, I really doubt he meant that government would find a place for them...
The "we" is a promise that there will be plenty of jobs as nannies and gardeners for less than minimum wage. The "job creators" can't keep creating jobs if they're forced to pay a fair wage, can they?
Ron, since neither society, nor job creators have the power to grant citizenship (or amnesty), Paul must be referring to the government. I just think it's a tricky position to advocate for a smaller government that you (coincidentally) want to lead - almost reads like an oxymoron.
RandomB . . .
Where exactly ARE those job creators? Did they only exist in the fantasy world of a Romney presidency? Curious.
Due to increased regulations -- ACA -- Barry's hatred of business and love of taxes those business creators are sitting with cash on the sidelines, after all we have a baffoon in the WH that has NO clue how to lead or run a business. At least Romney has worked in the private sector, but then you welfare rats know nothing of that and keep yipping to your master for the crumbs off the taxpayer table.
We meaning the USA you morons. Read into it what you will to discredit but in my opinion the we was "we as a nation".
You seem to be talking to the hand...
Oh, Dotties girl, I pray you never find yourself on hard times. Methinks you wouldn't be able to handle the shock. Your diatribe speaks so much of the us vs. them mentality, it is truly depressing.
Right chick. When all else (and you) fails for conversation, say the first "brilliant" thing you can for a comeback.
No, no, no Random. The Dotties of the country should not depress you or anyone else. They are a reason for us to draw strength and galvanize, to continue forward. The Dotties of the country are not as numerous as it may appear and they are dying off. Not soon enough, but that can't be helped. The louder our voices, the taller we stand and the harder we fight, we will always win against the Dotties of this country! Persevere, Random, persevere!
Dotties girl . . .
And that's relevant to WHAT? Who cares where Romney worked or where he is working now. He's a HAS BEEN. Much like your posts.
From "talk...":
...and then from "talk...":
So, "talk...", you demand from others what you, yourself, are incapable of giving? What does that make you?
You chastise others with whom you disagree, as if you have any place to chastise ANYONE, and yet have nothing to write about "dotties girl" calling anyone that disagrees with her/it "welfare rats".
As usual, your hypocrisy is blatant, "talk...". I had high hopes, what with the "comment with intelligence instead of hate and disdain" BS, that you had finally seen the light and were working to become a civilized member of society...but, no surprise, you blew it. Stay a lying, hypocritical creep...it's all you will ever know.
Sad. The scum always rises to the top, doesn't it "talk...". Please keep informing us as to which political figures you support and respect so that we may all run like hell in the other direction.
SeekingSanity seems to flip flop on politican's flip flops...
Hillary Clinton reversing her lifetime anti-gay marriage position yesterday = 'evolving'
Any Repubican changing positions on any issue anytime= 'flip flop'
Bob in Virginia - I'm sure there is a poin to your pointless post, right? Usually a politician doesn't take two stands on the same subject at the same time. Do you understand now little Bobby????
Apparently Bob, she is still seeking her sanity. :-)
LOl, good one Broker
Bob -
False Equivalency.
Hillary Clinton has long been a supporter of Gay Rights and LGBT civil unions. Support for Gay Marriage IS simply a small step to the left. I would even argue that Rob Portman's recent change in positionis an 'evolution' of his beliefs, based on his son's sexuality.
That is quite different than going from portraying illegal immigrants as the evil enemy that is "overwhelming our society" to basicaly granting them amnesty.
I find it amusing how after claiming John Kerry was an unqualified "flip-flopper" the Republican party has consecutively nominated two serial flip-floppers as their candidates.
Right - like Seeking Sanity has NEVER heard that one before......
got any new material?
Lil Michelle - if that's a good one to you, you haven't raised your standards even a little.
broker1 - as I've said many times (and Lil Michelle has read but clearly doesn't understand words over 4 letters) seeking sanity in the Republican party but posters like you, Bob in VA, Lil Michelle, etc., prove daily - absolutely NONE exists!
TNSEVOL - they don't even understand their old material - don't expect anything new!
They either HAVE to come up with new material or they'll go hungry... The stuff they're still using is only really funny during an election cycle so they need to put it on hold for re-use then... When it will once again magically rise to the level of "laughable".
When you embrace your party's stance on something, it's evolving. When you go against your party, you are a flip flopper. Make sense?
Dems are pro gay marriage - now so is Hilary
Republicans are anti-immigration - however Mr Paul now goes against that ideal
Gremilins. Double Post.
Hi Seeking Sanity, How are you?
I missed the Alvin Ailey Ballad Sunday because my son told me the ballad has been extended to April. I'm so disappointed. Ticket Master is not selling tickets anymore and the Auditorium is not answering its phone.
Hi Beverly,
Doing fine but super busy right now. I'm so sorry you missed Alivn Ailey - it's an incredible troupe and their performances are outstanding. Hopefully you'll have the opportunity again soon!
Drinks soon!!!!!
Rand Paul is in a tough spot. He has to be against undocumented immigrants politically but he wouldn't be allowed back in the state if he took a hard stance against them.
There are WAY too many horse and tobacco farms here...and guess who takes care of all of them...
I just don't get the reform BS. What makes these people more desirable or important than those who have stayed the course and used our current laws to become citizens? They leave and do it the right way from their country of origin.
We lost a worker this week whom the payroll company found was an illegal. He was a good worker but, he has to go home now that the spotlight is on. And he will. He doesn't seem like the kind that will go somewhere else sneaking into "another identity". He had what appeared to be the right stuff but our payroll company does e-verify for us. Caught him after a couple of months.
I just wonder why it took them so long? GovCo red tape or simply not a priority? With the recent releases of over 2200 from jail, I think I would lean more to the latter.
Ahh...Republicans. They always come around to liberal positions eventually. Next...gay marriage.
Don't fool yourself, Vipp. This is just the GOP trying to appeal to a segment of the population they think can get them back in the White House next election. Republicans have always been two-faced about illegals. The opposite of "speak softly but carry a big stick". They would talk tough but not push enforcement because many of their campaign contributors were big hirers of illegals. Keeping wages low makes the rich richer.
right condom b, "appealing to a segment bla, bla, bla, next election" Sounds like obama...tuition for college, free phones, gay marriages, free rubbers for the babes, unlimited unemployment, food stamps, etc. You lib lemmings are incredible hypocrites!!
Funny, I don't remember MSNBC comparing President Obama views with his dad's.
Meanwhile, President Obama's administration is deporting folks at the fastest rate in our history. Yet, gave temporary sanctuary for a segment of the children of "illegals".
So is President Obama for deporting some, but not all; or for welcoming some, but not all?
President Obama did not run for office on his dad's coattails.
Meanwhile, President Obama's administration is deporting folks at the fastest rate in our history. Yet, gave temporary sanctuary for a segment of the children of "illegals".
It is called a balanced approach. Those who are here through no fault of their own and keep their nose clean get treated differently from those who broke the law or continue to break laws.
Sounds reasonable and nuanced to me.
Balanced?! Based on your age, time in country, schooling, military service, etc.?
"Everybody plays by the same rules." BO
And what is the "balanced approach" going to do for the 12M when the executive order is up next year? Will there be a refocus on immigration to fix the long outstanding issue as well as the recent temporary stay of deportation?
Nuanced? Stick to your words.
This is one area where Rand is wrong. With the economy still anemic and unemployment still high, the last conversation we should be having is about whether or not to embolden illegal aliens. Being in the country illegally is a crime regardless of the motives. I really like Paul's positions on reducing our military presence and limited government, its just that this is a really big issue as well. The US is already bursting at the seems with poor, unskilled people. Do we really need to add 20-30 million more? Also, any repub that actually believes that any hispanic dems are going to magically convert to repubs are fooling themselves. They know who butters their government provided bread. Immigration both legal and otherwise needs to be drastically reduced if we are to maintain any sort of lifestyle worth living in this country. Do we need to suffer the same fate as India or China before we realize that we should have kept our population numbers in check? I find it fascinating that many of the same people screaming about saving the planet would have us open our borders and invite the rest of the world in to help destroy it.
Even with your inflated numbers, they are already here.
Agreed.
Being a "conservative" really means you are still living in the 20th century. Look at where we've come and where we are going, it all goes against Republican ideals. Evolve or die
This would be the outcome of a constant progressive soup diet.
Fortunately, progressives believe in steady progress not regressing to the point where we have a caste system.
"Steady progress" code for "re-shape the constitution to suit my lifestyle."
Progressives for ward.
Where we are going is extinction of the USA. to be replaced by One World Government. Why do you want to trade the Bill of Rights for United Nations corruption and oppression?
A conservative showing some compassion, who would of thunk it?! But "GodblessAmerica" renewed my belief in Repub's with his stand that immigrants of any type are going to destroy this country. He seems to have missed his high school class on History of America that we are all immigrants, and that's why we are the greatest country in the world. But I can only hope that the GOP selects Rand for President, so we can give them another good ass kicking!
We need to Stop ILLEGAL immigration! They're not just doing jobs that Americans don't want. Do they pay federal and state income taxes? Don't get me wrong most of these people work very hard, but are a drain on the system if they don't pay taxes, have healthcare coverage, learn the language or get paid wages that are in line with their American counterparts. Who's footing the bill for the education of their children and the infrastructure around them? We all know that the health care provided to uninsured illegals here in the states is being averaged into our hospital costs and our insurance premiums, which have PROPORTIONATELY increased along with illegal immigration over the last 20 years? These costs are also being passed along to Medicaid and Medicare, which means that not only are they increasing our insurance premiums, but that we're paying for them again with our tax dollars.
Our tax dollars and insurance premiums should not be used to recoup the cost of healthcare given to illegal immigrants, who shouldn't even be here in our country in the first place.
To the people that disagree, we should ask them should this: If a few illegal immigrants knocked on your door and demanded that you pay some medical bills for them, would you pay them?
Just look around and you'll see who's doing 90% of the residential renovations, construction and property maintenance jobs. That's certainly what we're seeing in the northeast. These are not just jobs that Americans don't want.
Unfortunately the hiring of cheap illegal labor causes a chain reaction. The contractors who hire cheap, uninsured, non-taxpaying, ILLEGAL aliens undercut the contractors who hire US Citizens or Legal immigrants. Even if the contractor wants to continue to employ US Citizens or Legal tax-paying immigrants, they end up replacing their Legal employees with illegals just to be able to get the work.
Let's get the good productive ILLEGAL Aliens into the system and paying federal and state income tax or get them out and not let more in unless they come in as Legal Immigrants. Make them apply for legal visas and or U.S. citizenship and if they don't, then get them out. If they get rejected get them out or give them one quick appeal and if they still get rejected, then get them out.
Let's send the bad ILLEGAL Aliens back to where they came in and let's put a stop to more ILLEGAL Aliens getting in.
Every adult illegal aliens commits multiple felonies in order to steal $20,000 a year or more from Americans and legal immigrants, I would call that bad.
Being in this country without papers is a misdemeanor. A traffic ticket. You probably do worse crimes than they do every day.
@TJK
I don't believe that anyone in the GOP is anti legal immigration.
Hey America, Obama thinks that they there are too many jobs in America for Americans and we need more people to leach of America's dying entitlement programs...
Welcome to Obama World aka the new Greece....
Wow goat, the economy has improved in the last 4 years, and would have been much better without the
The Grand Obstructionists Party in play,
The Republican party, in Congress has:
Introduced 46 abortion bills.
introduced 113 bills on religion,
introduced 73 bills on the family relationships,
introduced 36 bills on marriage,
introduced 72 bills on firearms,
introduced 604 bills on taxation,
introduced 467 bills on government investigation,
Forgot 33 votes to repeal Health Care 1.6 billion 80 hours lost!
Now THAT Is Real Job Creation,,,,,,,,
****************************************************
Rand Paul's CPAC address:
My fellow Republican Loonies.
Our state of the party is in big trouble.
We lost our fight to keep slaves. Let's start claiming credit for abolishing it.
We lost our fight to keep women from voting.
Now we can’t even beat our women without going to jail.
Worse, we have to give our women, equal pay.
We lost our fight to deny seniors Social Security - Seniors are Socialist.
We lost our fight to deny Medicare to Seniors - They are all Commies.
We lost our fight to discriminate based on color. MLK was a Communist.
Lastly, this black, Kenyan with a Birth Certificate that cannot be translated into Alabamese, has shoved
Obamacare down our throats.
All I can say is: We Conservatives are a bunch of losers.
****************************************************************************
Hey GOP, as Jeff Foxworthy, your spiritual leader would say:
1. If the majoiry of blacks think your party is racist then you are.
2. If the majority of Hispanics think you are intolerant, then you are.
3. If the majority of Gays think you are bigots, then you are.
4. If majority of women think you are gainst them then you are.
*******************************************************************************
The Republican National Committee released its long-awaited post-2012 “autopsy” Monday, in the form of
a 99-page report titled the “Growth and Opportunity Project.” Although the report pushes for some drastic
changes in the way that the Republican Party conducts itself during elections, it ultimately fails to confront
the primary problem: Its policies just aren’t popular with voters.
With the exception of a qualified push for immigration reform, the Growth and Opportunity Project centers
around the idea that the Republican Party’s platform is sound, while the messaging is at fault. That comes as
no surprise — it was RNC chairman Reince Priebus, after all, who recently declared “I don’t think our platform
is the issue” — but this plan is startlingly divorced from the Republicans’ present reality. On nearly every issue
facing Congress — from raising the minimum wage, to cutting federal programs, to strengthening gun safety
laws, to fighting against climate change — most voters side with Democrats over Republicans.
Further complicating the RNC’s mission is the fact that the GOP has shown absolutely no signs of being ready
to change the conduct that led to the party’s overwhelming losses in November.
For example, the Priebus plan notes that “if we are going to grow as a party, our policies and actions must take
into account that the middle class has struggled mightily and that far too many of our citizens live in poverty,”
adding “The perception that the GOP does not care about people is doing great harm to the party and its
candidates on the federal level, especially in presidential years. It is a major deficiency that must be addressed.”
Improving outreach to the poor seems like a great idea in theory. In practice, House Republicans are preparing
to vote this week on Paul Ryan’s extremist “vision document,” which explicitly promises to slash funding for
programs that help the needy in order to finance a massive tax break for the wealthy.
The report’s suggestion that Republicans “learn once again how to appeal to more people, including those who
share some but not all of our conservative principles” seems like a no-brainer. But in reality, those people are
called RINOs, and are almost automatically disqualified from national races. Priebus’ report can’t change that
reality. Even while the autopsy suggests that “The Republican Party needs to stop talking to itself,” most of the
GOP’s brightest stars spent the weekend at the insular Conservative Political Action Conference — to which
popular governors Chris Christie of New Jersey and Bob McDonnell of Virginia were not invited, for the
unforgivable crime of compromising with some of their states’ many Democrats.
In theory, the report’s suggestion that “if we want ethnic minority voters to support Republicans, we have to
engage them, and show our sincerity,” makes perfect sense. In practice, the GOP seems to be going out of its
way to antagonize minority voters; even as the autopsy suggests showing sincerity, the party continues to
push for voter-suppression laws that nakedly attempt to keep minorities away from the polls. While the
autopsy suggests that the GOP “must be inclusive and welcoming” to Hispanic-Americans, Senate Republicans
are simultaneously gearing up for a racially-charged filibuster of Thomas Perez, the only Hispanic nominee for
President Obama’s cabinet.
The report pushes the party to “establish a presence in African-American communities and at black
organizations such as the NAACP,” but it seems to forget that Mitt Romney tried that in July. He ended up
getting booed repeatedly for promising to repeal health care reform, and patronizingly claiming to be the best
candidate for the black community.
“It all goes back to what our moms used to tell us: It’s not just what we say; it’s how we say it,” Priebus said of
his report Monday morning. He is forgetting a more important factor: what they do. The Republicans’ problem
isn’t that voters aren’t getting the message about the party’s policies; it’s that too many voters read the GOP
loud and clear.
************************************************************************************
Reasons why GOP/Conservatives SOS
(Stuck on Stupid)
The Playbook is finding an enemy to
hate and be against
Just not finding much support these
days
Obama - Black - uppity - thinks with
own ideals - in charge - not old white man minded
Liberals - See through their BS
Republicans (RINO) - same as
Liberals
Independents - same as Liberals
Mexicans - Illegal aliens - 12
million here - but unemployed too
Schools - Teach history - expand
their own thoughts - dangerous
Healthcare - only if for profit -
otherwise job killer
Need for War - against anybody for
profit - send anybody but GOP family members
Each other - one lie better -
megla-maniacs
Illusions - Sublimely lying to each
other - reality is not what it appears to be
Satanic - Destroy everything -
(Genesis -”Surely you won’t die”) snake
Government - true competition to
corporation's profit margins
Black people - ungrateful servants -
taught mexicans to do the same - can't imprison all blacks
Asian - no loyalty - nation in a
nation
Hispanics - don't trust conservative
Americans
Native Indian American - white man
speaks with forked tongue
Gay & lesbians - too free of a
mind - sub-persons
Women - serves one purpose - sub
person
The Playbook is finding an enemy to
hate and be against
Just not finding much support these
days
WTFHAPPENED
*************************************************************
(CNN) – Sen. John McCain agrees that moss is bad - well, for the most part.
The Arizona Republican responded Monday to criticism lobbed by fellow Republican Sen. Rand Paul, who
argued the GOP was growing "stale and moss-covered."
Paul made his comments Thursday at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference just outside
Washington, where thousands of conservatives gathered for three days to discuss the future of the GOP
following big losses in the 2012 election.
Speaking on the Senate floor about the recent forced budget cuts - known as the sequester - and their impact
on the military, McCain cited the intra-party critiques from last week's CPAC.
"References were made to people who were too old and moss-covered and that we need new, fresh
individuals and ideas and thoughts. And I agree with all of those, every bit of those recommendations and
comments," McCain said.
"But there is a little bit of benefit of being around for a while," the five-term senator added. "My friends,
I'll tell you right now, I've seen this movie before."
McCain then resumed his topic of discussion, cautioning the government in a fiery speech against returning to
its military levels following the Vietnam War.
Paul and McCain have been mired in a bit of tension recently. The 2008 GOP presidential nominee labeled Paul,
and fellow freshman Sen. Ted Cruz, "wacko birds" earlier this month, not long after Paul's almost-13-hour
filibuster on the Senate floor. Cruz had joined Paul in demanding that the Obama administration answer
questions about its drone policies.
******************************************************************
With Attacks On Secretary Of Labor Nominee, GOP Latino Outreach Efforts End On Day One
On the same day Republicans announced they would renew efforts to draw minorities into the party,
Senator David Vitter (R-LA) placed an immediate hold on Thomas Perez, President Obama's nominee to be
the next Secretary of Labor. Perez's work in the Department of Justice's Civil Rights division --
often in opposition to the GOP's war on voting -- has put him in the crosshairs of the far right.
Look at Perez's history. There is reason for concern. Don't be a sheep.
Bill Maher: "If you lose your mind every time you see Michelle Obama show up on your TV, seek help".
When are we going to hear from the survivors of the Benghazi Consulate Massacre? What is Obama hiding? What was Hillary trying to hide? The American people deserve to hear from them.
Wow goat, the economy has improved in the last 4 years, and would have been much better without the
The Grand Obstructionists Party in play,
The Republican party, in Congress has:
Introduced 46 abortion bills.
introduced 113 bills on religion,
introduced 73 bills on the family relationships,
introduced 36 bills on marriage,
introduced 72 bills on firearms,
introduced 604 bills on taxation,
introduced 467 bills on government investigation,
Forgot 33 votes to repeal Health Care 1.6 billion 80 hours lost!
Now THAT Is Real Job Creation,,,,,,,,
****************************************************
Rand Paul's CPAC address:
My fellow Republican Loonies.
Our state of the party is in big trouble.
We lost our fight to keep slaves. Let's start claiming credit for abolishing it.
We lost our fight to keep women from voting.
Now we can’t even beat our women without going to jail.
Worse, we have to give our women, equal pay.
We lost our fight to deny seniors Social Security - Seniors are Socialist.
We lost our fight to deny Medicare to Seniors - They are all Commies.
We lost our fight to discriminate based on color. MLK was a Communist.
Lastly, this black, Kenyan with a Birth Certificate that cannot be translated into Alabamese, has shoved
Obamacare down our throats.
All I can say is: We Conservatives are a bunch of losers.
****************************************************************************
Hey GOP, as Jeff Foxworthy, your spiritual leader would say:
1. If the majoiry of blacks think your party is racist then you are.
2. If the majority of Hispanics think you are intolerant, then you are.
3. If the majority of Gays think you are bigots, then you are.
4. If majority of women think you are gainst them then you are.
*******************************************************************************
The Republican National Committee released its long-awaited post-2012 “autopsy” Monday, in the form of
a 99-page report titled the “Growth and Opportunity Project.” Although the report pushes for some drastic
changes in the way that the Republican Party conducts itself during elections, it ultimately fails to confront
the primary problem: Its policies just aren’t popular with voters.
With the exception of a qualified push for immigration reform, the Growth and Opportunity Project centers
around the idea that the Republican Party’s platform is sound, while the messaging is at fault. That comes as
no surprise — it was RNC chairman Reince Priebus, after all, who recently declared “I don’t think our platform
is the issue” — but this plan is startlingly divorced from the Republicans’ present reality. On nearly every issue
facing Congress — from raising the minimum wage, to cutting federal programs, to strengthening gun safety
laws, to fighting against climate change — most voters side with Democrats over Republicans.
Further complicating the RNC’s mission is the fact that the GOP has shown absolutely no signs of being ready
to change the conduct that led to the party’s overwhelming losses in November.
For example, the Priebus plan notes that “if we are going to grow as a party, our policies and actions must take
into account that the middle class has struggled mightily and that far too many of our citizens live in poverty,”
adding “The perception that the GOP does not care about people is doing great harm to the party and its
candidates on the federal level, especially in presidential years. It is a major deficiency that must be addressed.”
Improving outreach to the poor seems like a great idea in theory. In practice, House Republicans are preparing
to vote this week on Paul Ryan’s extremist “vision document,” which explicitly promises to slash funding for
programs that help the needy in order to finance a massive tax break for the wealthy.
The report’s suggestion that Republicans “learn once again how to appeal to more people, including those who
share some but not all of our conservative principles” seems like a no-brainer. But in reality, those people are
called RINOs, and are almost automatically disqualified from national races. Priebus’ report can’t change that
reality. Even while the autopsy suggests that “The Republican Party needs to stop talking to itself,” most of the
GOP’s brightest stars spent the weekend at the insular Conservative Political Action Conference — to which
popular governors Chris Christie of New Jersey and Bob McDonnell of Virginia were not invited, for the
unforgivable crime of compromising with some of their states’ many Democrats.
In theory, the report’s suggestion that “if we want ethnic minority voters to support Republicans, we have to
engage them, and show our sincerity,” makes perfect sense. In practice, the GOP seems to be going out of its
way to antagonize minority voters; even as the autopsy suggests showing sincerity, the party continues to
push for voter-suppression laws that nakedly attempt to keep minorities away from the polls. While the
autopsy suggests that the GOP “must be inclusive and welcoming” to Hispanic-Americans, Senate Republicans
are simultaneously gearing up for a racially-charged filibuster of Thomas Perez, the only Hispanic nominee for
President Obama’s cabinet.
The report pushes the party to “establish a presence in African-American communities and at black
organizations such as the NAACP,” but it seems to forget that Mitt Romney tried that in July. He ended up
getting booed repeatedly for promising to repeal health care reform, and patronizingly claiming to be the best
candidate for the black community.
“It all goes back to what our moms used to tell us: It’s not just what we say; it’s how we say it,” Priebus said of
his report Monday morning. He is forgetting a more important factor: what they do. The Republicans’ problem
isn’t that voters aren’t getting the message about the party’s policies; it’s that too many voters read the GOP
loud and clear.
************************************************************************************
Reasons why GOP/Conservatives SOS
(Stuck on Stupid)
The Playbook is finding an enemy to
hate and be against
Just not finding much support these
days
Obama - Black - uppity - thinks with
own ideals - in charge - not old white man minded
Liberals - See through their BS
Republicans (RINO) - same as
Liberals
Independents - same as Liberals
Mexicans - Illegal aliens - 12
million here - but unemployed too
Schools - Teach history - expand
their own thoughts - dangerous
Healthcare - only if for profit -
otherwise job killer
Need for War - against anybody for
profit - send anybody but GOP family members
Each other - one lie better -
megla-maniacs
Illusions - Sublimely lying to each
other - reality is not what it appears to be
Satanic - Destroy everything -
(Genesis -”Surely you won’t die”) snake
Government - true competition to
corporation's profit margins
Black people - ungrateful servants -
taught mexicans to do the same - can't imprison all blacks
Asian - no loyalty - nation in a
nation
Hispanics - don't trust conservative
Americans
Native Indian American - white man
speaks with forked tongue
Gay & lesbians - too free of a
mind - sub-persons
Women - serves one purpose - sub
person
The Playbook is finding an enemy to
hate and be against
Just not finding much support these
days
WTFHAPPENED
*************************************************************
(CNN) – Sen. John McCain agrees that moss is bad - well, for the most part.
The Arizona Republican responded Monday to criticism lobbed by fellow Republican Sen. Rand Paul, who
argued the GOP was growing "stale and moss-covered."
Paul made his comments Thursday at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference just outside
Washington, where thousands of conservatives gathered for three days to discuss the future of the GOP
following big losses in the 2012 election.
Speaking on the Senate floor about the recent forced budget cuts - known as the sequester - and their impact
on the military, McCain cited the intra-party critiques from last week's CPAC.
"References were made to people who were too old and moss-covered and that we need new, fresh
individuals and ideas and thoughts. And I agree with all of those, every bit of those recommendations and
comments," McCain said.
"But there is a little bit of benefit of being around for a while," the five-term senator added. "My friends,
I'll tell you right now, I've seen this movie before."
McCain then resumed his topic of discussion, cautioning the government in a fiery speech against returning to
its military levels following the Vietnam War.
Paul and McCain have been mired in a bit of tension recently. The 2008 GOP presidential nominee labeled Paul,
and fellow freshman Sen. Ted Cruz, "wacko birds" earlier this month, not long after Paul's almost-13-hour
filibuster on the Senate floor. Cruz had joined Paul in demanding that the Obama administration answer
questions about its drone policies.
******************************************************************
With Attacks On Secretary Of Labor Nominee, GOP Latino Outreach Efforts End On Day One
On the same day Republicans announced they would renew efforts to draw minorities into the party,
Senator David Vitter (R-LA) placed an immediate hold on Thomas Perez, President Obama's nominee to be
the next Secretary of Labor. Perez's work in the Department of Justice's Civil Rights division --
often in opposition to the GOP's war on voting -- has put him in the crosshairs of the far right.
The classic Libertarian position has always been that national borders should be completely open. That is one Libertarian position that I do not agree with. In this age of terrorism, a nation cannot allow just anyone to hike into their country carrying god-knows-what.
Re assimilation:
Here's my top-ten list of what we should expect from those
who want to become Americans (and those who are already Americans, for that
matter). The list was first published in a National Review Online column a
decade ago [link:
], and it is fleshed out in Congressional testimony [link:
]:
1. Don’t disparage anyone else’s race or ethnicity.
2. Respect women.
3. Learn to speak English.
4. Be polite.
5. Don’t break the law.
6. Don’t have children out of wedlock.
7. Don’t demand anything because of your race or ethnicity.
8. Don’t view working and studying hard as “acting white.”
9. Don’t hold historical grudges.
10. Be proud of being an American.
Illegals already broke rules 3, 5, and 6.
NO AMNESTY.
Mandatory E-Verify for all hires and stiff penalties for employers who attempt to skirt it.
If you want to be heard, you need to stop taking your talking points from La Raza.
NO AMNESTY.
Mandatory E-Verify for all hires, and stiff penalties for employers who attempt to skirt it.
Mr Light....why such a hard a@@ ? illegals generally take all the jobs that Americans feel they are too privileged to take, cash only jobs mostly What "attack" on our freedoms do you think giving someone a chance at becoming a citizen is going to generate. What destruction of our morals do you envision by giving people from all over the world a chance at a better life? just like we have been doing since before the country was founded.
Illegal immigration and amnesty are racist, it benefits 30 Latinos for every Asian, African, or European who benefits.
I guess that's why these former Confederates support it.
Rand paul is spouting the same crapola that Obummer is spouting. Let illegals stay even though they would go to prison in other countries. How come whenever we hear about the Presidents family is that they are here in the Unted States illegally. Maybe thats why the President is pushing so hard for immigration reform.
We need to fence in the border and put in anti personnel mines for all these law breaking illegals
Rand paul is spouting the same crapola that Obummer is spouting. Let illegals stay even though they would go to prison in other countries. How come whenever we hear about the Presidents family is that they are here in the Unted States illegally. Maybe thats why the President is pushing so hard for immigration reform.
We need to get fences on the border and have the border area mined.
Rand paul is spouting the same crapola that Obama is spouting. Let illegals stay even though they would go to prison in other countries. How come whenever we hear about the Presidents family is that they are here in the Unted States illegally. Maybe thats why the President is pushing so hard for immigration reform.
We need to get fences on the border and have the border area mined.