because we all know leadership starts from behind...eh old GAL....just ask King Hussein

voters overwhelming supported it in November,

No, Obama just got reelected in November. Unless Obamacare was actually running for VP. Jury is still out for about another year and a half on the "overwhelming" support.

And if Obamacare isn't a gimmick out of the "tool bag" of Obama to garner low information votes, I don't know what is.

because we all know leadership starts from behind...eh old GAL....just ask King Hussein

Nice copy and paste of your regular posts Culus Onan. I do believe that you are stretching the adage that imitation is the highest form of flattery a bit to far.

How stupid does Ryan think the Republican base is? Obamacare is not going to be repealed. The Senate is not going to vote to repeal Obamacare. The President who spent much political capital getting it passed, would sure as hell veto it, if it were to hit his desk.

Maybe the real question is: How stupid is Paul Ryan?

They want to repeal Obamacare even as studies show that it is helping to curb medical cost and stem the growth of insurance coverage, providing a savings both individual and companies.

From 2000 through 2009, Medicare's outlays climbed by an average of 9.7% a year. By contrast, since the beginning of 2010, Medicare spending has been rising by less than 4% a year. On this, both Standard Poor's Index Committee and the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) agree.
http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2011/08/aca-bending-medicare-cost-curve.html

Ryan is proposing increasing the age of those that will not be effected by the changes to Medicare from 55 to 58 so he can get to his unrealistic balanced budget in 10 years … whatever it takes ... no matter who it hurts

David, question. Can Congress (or at least the HOR) defund Obamacare? Just wondering as in the early days after passage that was being thrown around.

Thanks.

How stupid is Paul Ryan?

David,

Do you really want to go there?

How much time do you have? lol

They want to repeal Obamacare even as studies show that it is helping to curb medical cost and stem the growth of insurance coverage, providing a savings both individual and companies.

______________________________________

Dennis: Could you provide a few specific examples of the ClunkerCare changes that you can directly tie to curbing medical costs?? Four or five should be a cakewalk for a true Obamabot like you.

Kind of like to see a link to those studies myself. Help us out here Dennis?

Talk to the Hand

David, question. Can Congress (or at least the HOR) defund Obamacare? Just wondering as in the early days after passage that was being thrown around.

What, and piss off the growing number of Republican Governors who have recently signed on?

ps. since you are in Polk's backyard ... any biographies to recommend?

I was going to ask Dennis to show the uncertainities of Oblamocare but figured nothing would come of it...

Yeah i'd be curious to see these examples as well...lets put that Fields Medal to work....

Joe,

Since you seem to be so very good at this why don’t you
post a few creditable sources that refute what I just said?

I'll get back to you on the biographies. I'll run down to the center on my way home and see if they have a suggested list.

And the governors last I checked numbered less than 10. I could be wrong.

Republicans do not have to repeal ClunkerCare. It will repeal itself this fall when people finally discover how much it will cost them for the unsubsidized part of the premium and the out-of-pocket cost of copays. According to the non-partisan Kaiser Family Foundation, a family of four earning about $90,000 per year will have to cough up over $700 a month for their share of the premium and over $8,000 in copays before ClunkerCare limits their copays.

That's an extra mortgage payment every month for the "Affordable Care Act".

LMFAO!!!!!

Really Talk?

No, Obama just got reelected in November

And the ACA has been ruled Constitutional by the Supreme Court and the GOP has tried to repeal it what now 34 times? Where is their job plan? God but that whole party is stuck on STUPID! I think the country is getting damn tired of their BS. Whiny bunch of idiots! It the country had wanted the Ryan plan, they would have VOTED for it!

Caesar,

No Fields Metal for me, not smart enough … sorry!

You appear to be an intelligent person so why is it that
you don’t provide anything positive to the conversation?

It appears that your only purpose here is to distract and mock.

The Ryan plan wasn't running just like Obamacare wasn't. Well at least in my state.

Joe,

Since you seem to be so very good at this why don’t you
post a few creditable sources that refute what I just said?

___________________________________________

Dennis: That's a pretty lame attempt to deflect attention from having to prove your unsubstantiated wishful thinking about ClunkerCare.

You got nuthin', as usual for an Obamabot.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

It appears that your only purpose here is to distract and mock.

well now, im not the one saying Oblamocare is great..in fact Joe already beat me to it...yep...the uncertainties..But Dennis, surely you dont mind my distraction, how can you when you dont mind Fisty's ;o) ... Hey Joe, maybe we should create a clubhouse to 'strategize' as well...Nah, its no fun in being a coward..

Dennis you say Oblamocare is great..it was up to you to prove it. nope you parrot the WH talking points..yeah i got that memo too...

anyways you may not have Fields Medal, but perhaps you can explain what alloy your Fields Metal is?

And the ACA has been ruled Constitutional by the Supreme Court and the GOP

Was it ruled Constitutional on the Grounds King Hussein's team argued it for (Commerce)? It's a TAX..Oblamo wasnt going to TAX the middle class....Whoopsy Daisy

David Walker

Maybe the real question is: How stupid is Paul Ryan?

How stupid were the people that vote for a bill they never read.

Obamacare is an scam, 3000 pages that nobody was allowed to read before to vote , unions calling for waivers because it doesn't work for them, after they were involve in crafting the law. Insurance premiums are going up , 7 millions will lost their insurance and people won't be able to keep their doctor. The ambitious plan to take over the heath care industry was not the right wt for, extend children's under the family insurance plan , non preexisting conditions and pills. If we want to balance the budget , everything has to be on negotiation the table.

Why does Ryan still promote his plan that proved to be a failure and was rejected on November 6, 2012?

Does he ever learn?

Why does he still want to destroy the middle class and seniors?

Why has he broken his promise that he only wanted to screw up those 55 and under because now he wants to screw up those 56 and under?

3000 pages that nobody was allowed to read before to vote

Where do you frauds get this from? Friends of Hamas, Breitbart.com? What you mean is republicans were to lazy to get off their fat asses and read the bill - rather like Joe and Talk that are too lazy to get off their fat asses to read links in Dennis' post.

If RomneyCare was good enough for Massachusetts, then ObamaCare should be good enough for the entire United States. Paul Ryan never could explain why the universal healthcare law signed by Mitt wouldn't work for the rest of the country.

What you mean is republicans were to lazy to get off their fat asses and read the bill.

how about Peloski for Starters...have to pass it to see whats in it...Fvcking Genius...friends of Hamas?..where do you get your info, Bedbuddies of Lenin? Idiot

If RomneyCare was good enough for Massachusetts, then ObamaCare should be good enough for the entire United States

Awesome LOGIC... You do know the difference between states and country right...of course you do...

I was not asked, but being a good trooper ... here ya go Joe & Clones

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/Files/Publications/Issue%20Brief/2012/Dec/1634_McCue_insurers_responses_MLR_regulation_ib.pdf

Until you guys down there wake up and instal Universal Healthcare, both side will be screwed.

Hello, my Kitty Pig (#1.25), a.k.a., blackcatwhitecat darling.

where do you get your info, Bedbuddies of Lenin? Idiot

I see the resident power bottom is ready for another round. Glad to hear your sphincter finally snapped back into shape from the last round that left it gaping wide open. Saddle up and back into this Pizza Boy!!

What is HOT-N-READY®? A large 14” pepperoni pizza, hot out of the oven and ready when you are! No need to call ahead! No need to wait! No limit!Regional HOT-N-READY® pizzas include Ultimate Supreme, Hula Hawaiian®, and 3 Meat Treat®. Visit your local Little Caesars restaurant for availability.

RedDev - Read the link article (opinion from a blog called "Smartypants") and if you had read it you would see:

It is not the result of reform, Emmanuel emphasized. The reform measures that will rein in Medicare inflation have not yet been implemented.

kitty pig? the Klondike Pederast...shouldnt he be out trolling for the Athenian Yeti? dont worry, by 8 EST you should get your Hephaestion ;o)

Glad to hear your sphincter finally snapped back into shape from the last round that left it gaping wide open.

What a homophobe...thats ok, i love it when you libtards allude to someone being a 'faggot'...

Pigotry

Why does Ryan still promote his plan that proved to be a failure and was rejected on November 6, 2012

Ryans Budget pass in the House, Reid had no guts to take it to the floor.

The Obama budget was even worst, nobody in the Senate support it, now he will come with other budget even worst.

rather like Joe and Talk that are too lazy to get off their fat asses to read links in Dennis' post.

____________________________________________

Red Dev BS: I did read the link Dennis provided, DID YOU??

It was a lefty liberal BS blog by an Obamabot moron (yeah, yeah, I KNOW that's redundant) who calls herself "Miss Smartypants".

Not exactly a "creditable" source that Dennis demanded of me.

LMFAO@U&DENNIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just for the sake of sh*ts and giggles, it would be interesting to see the GOP dance around the argument that the President "gutted" Medicare by $700B+ (presented during the election) and the fact that that alleged gutting happened via the passing of the ACA....so if Ryan's budget is built on the back of repealing the ACA, then the GOP would need to also pass the legislating, effectively re-gutting the Medicare again, because the Congressman has no issue conveniently utilizing those "gutted" savings in his own numbers.

Interesting how that all works.

... and a good day to you also Pigums.

Culus Onan

Back to Emesa with you, Elagabalus needs to be serviced. He has a specific personal anatomical infrastructure desire that suits your blow hard bite hard talents.

A soliloquy in the echo chamber of a dull mind … "douche bag" … and the onanist's muse answered in kind.

What a homophobe...thats ok, i love it when you libtards allude to someone being a 'faggot'...

Only in your world does a power bottom engaging in pizza-ass play equate to gay.

Talk . . .

The Ryan plan wasn't running just like Obamacare wasn't. Well at least in my state

Really? Romney wasn't running in your State with his platform of repealing Obamacare and implementing the Ryan budget? I didn't realize they'd been kept off of the ballot in certain states.

LMFAO@U&DENNIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES WE ARE!

Only in your world does a power bottom engaging in pizza-ass play equate to gay.

well now its on the internet in the real world...funny how you worry that my sphincter was stretched and rebounded... WHat a dumazz ReddevPOS...WE ARE LAUGHING AT YOU!!!

Intolerant crap bag :o) Bumwine?

Obama Care is the law of the land, and there is nothing the dead beat tea bag folks can do about it!!! Period and end of story.

I would like to see a budget from any party, be taken and worked on to come up with a Budget. Does anyone thing running the government on continuing resolutions is good? Whether or not you like the Ryan budget, at least it's a start. Why doesn't the Senate take it up and work from there, or at least submit their own version of the budget. Heck, they don't like the White House's budget, they don't like the House (or Ryan) budget. Put one out and then work from there.

And by the way, my health insurance keeps going up. As do my out of pocket costs. What will happen at the end of this year when the ACA goes into full affect.

Think,

Senate Democrats will introduce their FY14 budget on Wednesday, March 13^th

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/03/11/the-insiders-a-big-week-for-the-budget/

But on average HC insurance rates are increasing at half the rate they were from 2000 to 2009

Dennis

Good, it's about time. Now let the conference committees begin to work on a budget to come up with a compromise budget because we know that's the only way a budget will get passed.

I haven't reviewed Paul Ryan's latest budget in detail, but from what I have read it contains most of the same items as his last one.

The last Ryan Budget had a long, detailed list of tax cuts - lower top-tier tax rates and corporate tax rates; eliminate taxes on capital gains, estates, interest and dividends. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center calculated that these specified tax cuts would reduce tax revenue by $4.3 trillion over the next 10 years.

Not to worry, though - Ryan claims these tax cuts will be made revenue-neutral by closing unspecified loopholes!

In this same 10-year period the Ryan Budget contained specified spending cuts of around $1 trillion. Medicaid funding is reduced by $800 billion, food stamps by $130 billion, and Pell grants to college students are reduced.

Ryan's budget also included $700 billion in Medicaid savings from the ACA – the same $700 billion he and his buddy Mitt Romney attacked President Obama about - because Ryan claims they were in the "baseline". So now we are up to $1.7 trillion in spending cuts.

So the Ryan Budget specified $4.3 trillion in revenue reductions and $1.7 trillion in spending cuts for a total deficit increase of $2.5 trillion – and this does not even include the proposed increase in military spending!

Don’t get upset, though – because the Ryan Budget also includes "secret" tax reforms and "super-secret" spending cuts that will magically transform this $2.5 trillion deficit increase into a deficit reduction.

So that's the Ryan Budget formula - reduce taxes on the wealthy, change Medicare into a voucher system, cut spending on lower-income families and college students….

……sprinkle with magic pixie dust, alter the rules of mathematics, and ABRACADABRA – Deficit Reduction!

Paul Ryan - The Deficit? I Built That!

It's irritating that Paul Ryan gets more publicity for his Medicare plan for vouchers, essentially privatizing health insurance, than President Obama gets for his plan to save Medicare.

Here's what I've learned, by doing a little research, is what is in Obama's proposal:

Raise premiums on wealthier seniors by 15% beginning in 2017.

Government pays drug companies less for prescriptions.

Reduce payments to nursing homes that have high rates of hospital re-admissions.

All told, Obama proposes cutting healthcare spending by $400 billion.

Think,

No budget has passed either chamber so there cannot be a conference committee yet.

Albany Joe -- Any link to your claim in your second post? Can't find anything that states those figures.

Obama Care is the law of the land, and there is nothing the dead beat tea bag folks can do about it!!!

it can be defunded...tell them to take that TAX and shove it...sorry Jobless1, life sux if you're a lib...

Dennis,

The House has passed a budget and sent it on. The President has sent a budget. Neither made it through the Senate, which has not presented anything near a budget in three years. Now, if they pass a budget that doesn't mirror the House budget, the two get together and iron out the differences. But the Senate needed to do their job as a starting point.

TNSEVOL

God bless you. (No, you didn't sneeze) but you explained the Ryan budget plan clearly enough for me to understand, and I thank you.

Think,

This is about the FY 2014 budget, not the Continuing Resolution for FY's 2012 & 2013 as part of the Budget Control Act of 2011.

Also note that anything that passed in the last Congress (112th) can not carry over to the next congress ... everything that passed in the 112th is dead and must be started over.

Ok, so you think a new budget is necessary when the President's budget submission and the other house budget submissions don't count any more. Then please answer me this. Why didn't the Senate pass a budget before now?

And as for the carryover, you have to admit, it's a moot point, since the GOP still controls the House. You're splitting hairs.

Amy B. Portland, ME

If RomneyCare was good enough for Massachusetts, then ObamaCare should be good enough for the entire United States.

Not , it is not every state is different , every state has different needs, Obama fail precisely , extending a plan fit to Massachusetts to the entire nation.

It's irritating that Paul Ryan gets more publicity for his Medicare plan for vouchers, essentially privatizing health insurance, than President Obama gets for his plan to save Medicare.

Liberals are always against all kind of vouchers , it is also in education , where poor people were able to assist to better schools, and they say they are for the poor. Medicare voucher will give much freedom to the recipients and fraud will be reduce to the minimum. We are moving to a welfare society that is wrong, we need to go back to a self reliant society, this is how we build our Nation. With givers, no takers. " Don't ask what your country can do for you, ask what can you do for your country"

Think,

The carryover has nothing to do with who has control of what {period}.

If you read my link above you would know it was 2009. The Senate did not perform their Constitutional duty … other than that what's your point? There is no punishment other than elections and in 2012 Dems gained Senate seats !!

Caesar Disgust Us

Obama Care can't be defunded. If it could it would have been done by now. Life life sux if you're a bagger!

It sure is entertaining watching our old friends "Wa*k to the hand", "Joan in Albany" and "Siezure gobustis" still circling their same favorite troughs... Better clear the ice! Someone obviously announced "Concubine skate time"!!

You three should think about setting off on a quest for an original thought... One of course worked out by others for you... And pick a Team name for crying out loud before I give you one!

Dennis

I was just trying to point out the Senate was remiss in its duty to present a budget. Thank you for agreeing. Everyone needs a starting point. We know what the House will do as I'm sure you'll agree it won't be much different than what was presented before. This is where the compromise comes in. We need BOTH sides to submit their plan (budget) to work out a compromise.

And I'm just trying to get dialogue started. If people on opposite sides like you and me cannot discuss this issue rationally, then how can we hope our elected leaders to do anything.

I'm off to work now. Thank you for the civil discussion.

Joe @ 1.14 I pay over $ 1000 p/m now plus co-pay , your figures would LOWER my costs a bunch.

Medicare vouchers will give much freedom to the recipients

??????

Republicans use the word freedom when what they mean is "the opportunity to be exploited." Privatization is an opportunity for private companies to exploit people with a basic need, either for healthcare, education, or military supplies. (Bush's privatization of supply services in Iraq resulted in astronomical waste and fraud.)

Little Caesar -

how about Peloski for Starters...have to pass it to see whats in it...Fvcking Genius

I would have thought that someone of your supposed intelligence would know that that "quote" was taken out of context, and was actually a comment on the misinformation and flat-out lies that Republicans propogated about Obamacare ("death panels", etc.).

"We have to do this in partnership, and I wanted to bring up to date on where we see it from here. The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals.

"You’ve heard about the controversies within the bill, the process about the bill, one or the other. But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention—it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting.

"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.

Obviously that quote has a completely different meaning when viewed in the context in which it was delivered.

Think,

Senate Democrats will introduce their FY14 budget on Wednesday, March 13^th

But on average HC insurance rates are increasing at half the rate they were from 2000 to 2009

________________________________

Dennis: Apparently YOU are not up to the challenge in my post #1.8. Post some "creditable" documentation ANY of this "cost curve bending" is due to specific ClunkerCare changes or admit you are a true-believer Obamabot and STFU.

Moron.

redvirginia-

Medicare voucher will give much freedom to the recipients and fraud will be reduce to the minimum

Baloney - the supposition that a Medicare voucher system would reduce costs defies both math and logic.

Medicare administrative costs are about half that of private insurers, plus private insurers would have to build in a profit margin. Medicare is also almost universally accepted.

Private insurers would have higher administrative costs, plus a profit margin, and would have to negotiate payments to providers in order to be accepted - how could that possibly reduce costs?

The only "freedom" our future seniors would have is the freedom to worry about whether they will be able to afford the additional costs, and the "freedom" to worry about whether the plan they chose offers sufficient coverage.

A voucher system transfer both costs and uncertainties to our future seniors in exchange for increased profits for health insurance providers. Not a good trade.

Amy . . .

(Bush's privatization of supply services in Iraq resulted in astronomical waste and fraud.)

So true and how quickly they all seem to forget how Cheney & his co-horts got quite wealthy because of it. But yeah, right, let's try that plan out again and give it to the insurance companies to monitor because they so have the consumer's best interests at heart . . . .NOT!

Ceasar -- ref 1.24 Why don't you put up Peloski's complete statement and stop the cherry-picking?

Joe -

Here you go:

During the economic downturn in 2009 and 2010, health-care costs grew at their slowest rate in decades. New data released Monday showed that slowdown continuing through 2011, with health-care spending growing by 3.9 percent for the third consecutive year.

Harvard University’s David Cutler argues that three systemic changes, ones that will stretch beyond the recession, are most likely responsible for the slower growth rate.

First, there are the health-care law’s reduced reimbursement rates that will permanently slow hospital spending. Chief Medicare actuary Richard Foster estimates that these reimbursement changes will account for about 1 percent slower growth each year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/07/the-2-7-trillion-question-are-health-care-costs-really-dropping/

The article also notes how Medicare is less expensive than private insurance, which once again proves how ill-conceived Paul Ryan's Medicare Voucher plan is.

Come on TNS, you're jumping on the name calling bandwagon...and here i thought you were one that could be rational...wtf was i thinking...

I would have thought that someone of your supposed intelligence would know that that "quote" was taken out of context, and was actually a comment on the misinformation and flat-out lies that Republicans propogated about Obamacare ("death panels", etc.).

i never said i was smart..i leave that to you and your side with your Hyper-intellects. a joke really...anyways, sure its out of context. nonetheless, passing it to find out whats in it is dumb dialog regardless. Poor Peloski just couldnt come out and splain it, perhaps to remain silent and thought a fool, not Peloski or the left..you just cant help yourselves, genetic flaw to open that trap. In fact look at Chick Binder and REREG extraordinaire, PUKEN...simply she did not read it..much like most of CONGRESS

You three should think about setting off on a quest for an original thought

thats rich coming from you PUKEN... maybe you can espouse about this punchbowl you like to be redundant about...ORIGINAL... Now go back to the old drawing board and maybe by tomorrow, like Poseur you will have this nice inane thesis..

Government will pay less to drug companies for prescriptions.

And the part they will not pay will be passed on to regular people like you & me, therefore increasing costs to insured people

I would say no, it adds no additional costs to Americans(heavy sarcasm intenend)

Albany Joe -- Any link to your claim in your second post? Can't find anything that states those figures.

__________________________________________

Yes: google Kaiser Family Foundation subsidy calulator. And enter:

Annual income: $90,000

Age of policy holder: 40

Family type: 4

Employer coverage available: No

Regional cost factor: medium

This is one small reason for me to cheer Barry's re-election: He can't blame this MASSIVE failure on GWB or the Republican House. It's all Barry and Nancy Pelosi's F**KUP.

Joe,

How is it you feel that you have a right to tell me or anyone what to say or do?

Is that how you believe the Constitution works … that some, not all have rights that
anyone can say whatever they want to say with or without facts … if you wish to
prove me wrong then you should do so and if you don’t then that is ok with me?

To all the libtards, when Obamacare goes into full effect in 2014 and thier are MILLIONs who can't afford it. Then what? The IRS comes a calling. Taking what? We just don't know do we?

Caesar -

Come on TNS, you're jumping on the name calling bandwagon

I hardly think "Little Caesar" is name-calling, more of a pun, nevertheless it was not meant to offend.

i never said i was smart

Maybe not, but you certainly spend a considerable amount of time mocking others and questioning their intelligence. It is a free country, so if it makes you happy......

Poor Peloski just couldnt come out and splain it, perhaps to remain silent and thought a fool, not Peloski or the left..you just cant help yourselves, genetic flaw to open that trap.

Not sure I understand your point, if you read the transcript of the entire speech Nancy Pelosi does explain in fairly good detail the main points of Obamacare, and how frustrated she was at the distortions.

She sure made it easy for the conservative media to take it out of context, though. A very poor choice of words.

Joe In Albany -

This is one small reason for me to cheer Barry's re-election: He can't blame this MASSIVE failure on GWB or the Republican House. It's all Barry and Nancy Pelosi's F**KUP.

I thought you Conservatives were all about personal responsibility? If this uninsured family of four with a $90,000 income goes to the emergency room, who ends up paying for it?

What are the penalties again for NOT using the subsidy to purchase health insurance?

hardly think "Little Caesar" is name-calling, more of a pun, nevertheless it was not meant to offend.

im not offended..its like Ruken said, be original...HAHAHA

Maybe not, but you certainly spend a considerable amount of time mocking others and questioning their intelligence.

some yes...mainly those that pretend to be smarter than everyone around them...it's an insecurity thing and i like to laugh at THEIR expense... ;o)

fairly good detail the main points of Obamacare, and how frustrated she was at the distortions

she still said you have to pass it to see what's in it...why would one have to say that at all? It sure does seem like there is some truth to what she said...3000 pg boondogle (no one really knows what the final product will bring) and how come so many waivers need for such 'great' legislation...

The article also notes how Medicare is less expensive than private insurance, which once again proves how ill-conceived Paul Ryan's Medicare Voucher plan is.

___________________________________

VOL: Medicare is less expensive than private insurance BECAUSE it underpays the real costs of providing healthcare due to govt price controls. AND private insurance is more expensive BECAUSE Medicare underpays the real costs of providing healthcare due to govt price controls.

I do have some background in the healthcare financing area: Here's a simple example (with made up dollars for illustration purposes): a CABG (Coronary Artery Bypass Graft) costs $10,000 to perform for the hospital and Dr costs. Medicare pays $6,000 for the CABG for a 65 year old under its legal price-fixing payment authority. A 64 year old with private ins. having the same CABG in the next door OR must pay $14,000 to cover Medicare's underpayment. Factor in the actuarial reality that there are far more CABG's done on Medicare patients than private ins. patients, and you can see where the rising costs of private ins. are CAUSED by Medicare.

So, please tell me again that lefty liberal fairy tale about how ClunkerCare will bend the cost curve.

It's one of my (and Deniss from Columbus) favorites!!

geo,

It is a credit that tax filers will not be allowed to claim if they cannot prove they had HC insurance coverage

Joe . .

A 64 year old with privare ins. having the same CABG in the next door OR must pay $14,000 to cover Medicare's underpayment

You're post is pretty much full of @!$%# but since you've started down this road why don't you finish it up with more analysis on in-network and out-of-network situations as you seem to think you know the ropes and that all $ lead back to Medicare and PCRs for various payors.

It is a credit that tax filers will not be allowed to claim if they cannot prove they had HC insurance coverage

Garbage in Garbage out.. But but but it's not a TAX....

The GOP health care reform bill will be ready soon. As soon as their corporate masters, the insurance companies can craft something the appears to be new, yet gives them the same right to rob us and trample on our rights as is the way now.

Joe,

How is it you feel that you have a right to tell me or anyone what to say or do?

Is that how you believe the Constitution works … that some, not all have rights that
anyone can say whatever they want to say with or without facts … if you wish to
prove me wrong then you should do so and if you don’t then that is ok with me?

____________________________________________

Dennis, you got caught in an Obamabot factually deficient talking point lie about Clunkercare "bending the cost curve".

Seems to be a lot of those going around these days.

Cut your losses and STFU.

Moron.

Joe -

Medicare is less expensive than private insurance BECAUSE it underpays the real costs of providing healthcare due to govt price controls.

We could debate as to whether Medicare underpays or private insurers overpay, but although it is true that Medicare pays less that is not the only reason it is less expensive.

Private insurers also set reimbursement levels for procedures, so where do doctors and hospitals transfer those costs?

Medicare administrative costs are around 2% while private insurers average more than twice that. Private insurers also add in a significant profit margin, so their costs are simply higher than Medicare in all three facets.

1+1+1=3, no matter how much Paul Ryan wants to avoid the rules of math.

Joe, be nice to Dennis, he is one of the least offenders on here..sure, nothing short of Thulsa Doom worship, but Dennis is at least heads above the other dolts... At least Dennis doesnt run around to support his argument with 'you're stupid, ignorant moron'...

You're post is pretty much full of @!$%#

Layton,

Today is any different... how? ☺

Joe in Albany

I stand and applaud you concise economic argument for Universal Healthcare in your post #1.71. Brilliant.

Poor ryan, playing Sisyphus

And I saw Sisyphus at his endless task raising his prodigious stone with both his hands. With hands
and feet he tried to roll it up to the top of the hill, but always, just before he could roll it over on to the other side, its weight would be too much for him, and the pitiless stone would come thundering down again on to the plain.

Homer.

We could debate as to whether Medicare underpays or private insurers overpay, but although it is true that Medicare pays less that is not the only reason it is less expensive.

Medicare administrative costs are around 2% while private insurers average more than twice that. Private insurers also have to add a profit margin, so their costs are simply higher than Medicare in all three facets.

___________________________________________

OK: let's eliminate the O/H and profit issues and concentrate on the MLR only. Since the medical loss ratio is about 98% of the cost of delivering Medicare, what do you think will happen when all those "inflated" private insurance charges are NOT there to subsidize Medicare's MLR underpayments?? Who will pick up the slack?? The "rich"??

BTW, many of the evil health insurers are not-for-profit organizations like BC/BS. No stockholder's are getting rich on them.

I stand and applaud you concise economic argument for Universal Healthcare in your post #1.71. Brilliant.

__________________________________________________

To FR's resident hoser from the Great White North: Your Canadian health care system would be an even worse bad hoser joke without the close proximity of high quality, ACCESSIBLE (meaning no endless waiting periods for anything less than emergency care) health care in the US, eh?

I took a rafting trip in BC in the 90s and the most prescient point one of the guides made was that the Canadian health care system was GREAT!!, as long as you were healthy.

OK: let's eliminate the O/H and profit issues and concentrate on the MLR only. Since the medical loss ratio is about 98% of the cost of delivering Medicare, what do you think will happen when all those "inflated" private insurance charges are NOT there to subsidize Medicare's MLR underpayments?? Who will pick up the slack?? The "rich"??

Do you have any facts to support your contention that Medicare underpays providers? Why is Medicare so widely accepted?

BC/BS may be "non-profit" but have you checked out how much the senior managers make? There is a reason their administrative costs are so much higher.

I took a rafting trip in BC in the 90s and the most prescient point one of the guides made was that the Canadian health care system was GREAT!!, as long as you were healthy.

Sure ya did Joe and shock of shocks you ran into a detractor ... but do go on as to why Canadians live longer and pay 50% less. Oh @!$%#, and no one goes bankrupt ... perhaps you care to ramble on about that?

BC once offered Canadians the choice of heart surgery in the US ... there were no takers as it seems outcomes in Canada are much better.

To FR's resident hoser from the Great White North:

We now call him the Klondike pederast...quite the greek tragedy he is...

most prescient point one of the guides made was that the Canadian health care system was GREAT!!, as long as you were healthy

just like the UK...its great if you dont have to use it LOL

just like the UK...its great if you dont have to use it LOL

... and now for a few words of CA's experience with the UK's system ... come on Culus, show and tell time.

Joe - Thanks for that info. While it may appear to be expensive it was much more expensive for a family of four to get insurance on their own prior to ACA. Many were simply denied insurance altogether so I'm certain those people will be happy they have this opportunity.

I'll be the first to say ACA is not perfect or the end all. Lots of work needed to improve it. Hopefully they begin by looking at best practices around the world.

Do you have any facts to support your contention that Medicare underpays providers? Why is Medicare so widely accepted?

BC/BS may be "non-profit" but have you checked out how much the senior managers make? There is a reason their administrative costs are so much higher.

________________________________________________

VOL: Medicare is "so widely acepted" because it is a govt sanctioned monopoly. Think about it: older people have the most need for medical services. Medicare is the major player in the over-65 market. Providers and patients are "stuck" with Medicare, like it or not. I could provide you with a hundred links that document Medicare's underpayments, but, you would still end up believing govt Medicare is "efficient" because it is run by the govt (LOL!!!).

Do yourself a favor and check your facts against reality: Add up all the senior management salaries of a BC/BS not-for-profit plan and divide it by the gross premiums. If you answer is more than one-one tenth of a percent (0.1%) get back to me with your bitching.

Joe - Thanks for that info. While it may appear to be expensive it was much more expensive for a family of four to get insurance on their own prior to ACA. Many were simply denied insurance altogether so I'm certain those people will be happy they have this opportunity.

____________________________________________

DCIA: HUH???

Barry's Clunkercare is REALLY the "Unaffordable Care Act" and you are limping along to declare it a "success"??

Wait until the rest of the lefty liberals wake up to the false reality of ClunkerCare.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joe -- Had to pay that much out of pocket for braces for each of my kids. We managed.

BC once offered Canadians the choice of heart surgery in the US ... there were no takers as it seems outcomes in Canada are much better.

___________________________________

Tell that lefty liberal fairy tale to the hospitals and Drs in Burlington, VT, Buffalo, NY, Detroit, MI , and Seattle, WA that take in tens of thousands of Canadian "refugee" patients a year willing to pay cash for prompt, quality medical care. Let's not even mention the class of care available at places like the Mayo and Cleveland Clinic's. Maybe a three day wait for a room in a gurney in the hall outside the Ottawa ER is not too much of a price to pay for "free" healthcare for you, but, it sucks for me.

Joe -- Had to pay that much out of pocket for braces for each of my kids. We managed.

____________________________________________

And you still would have to pay that cost under ClunkerCare.

What's your point??

BC once offered Canadians the choice of heart surgery in the US ... there were no takers as it seems outcomes in Canada are much better.

thats a canuck fantasy if i ever heard one...next youre gonna tell us ham is bacon LOL. Funny how the Klondike Pederast spends his time Dreaming of America. Savoir Faire is never there

Maybe a three day wait for a room in a gurney in the hall outside the Ottawa ER is not too much of a price to pay for "free" healthcare for you

that's FVCKING AWESOME...Great Care dontcha know? They do have hockey, kinda

he close proximity of high quality, ACCESSIBLE

You mean that great US medical care system, when in addition to paying insurance premiums and co-payments to be denied coverage, you also pay your doctor a retainer fee of $2k per year for the privilege of making an appointment 6 to 9 month out. Wow - how very accessible.

you also pay your doctor a retainer fee of $2k per year for the privilege of making an appointment 6 to 9 month out. Wow - how very accessible.

______________________________________________

Red Dev BS: If you pay your MD a retainer fee of $2K a year for concierge service, and have to wait more than a few days for a routine appiontment, YOU are the moron.

Sucks to be you.

LOL!!!

... and the 875,000 Americans who sought healthcare outside of the US in 2010?

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2011-04-04/national/35231713_1_health-care-medical-tourism-devi-shetty

truth in numbers sucks right Joe?

Thats only if the Dr. will accept Canadian rates. They pay half of what we do for our health care, a lot of our expense is paying for dead beats like you. You are probably a free rider. Most of the opposition to Obama care is by people that don't want insurance but stick the rest of us with the bill. One thing I like about Obama care is you free riders are going to pay one way or the other.

By the way the difference between administrative cost of Medicare and insurance companies will be Medicare will administer the very same insurance for less then 3% and private insurance companies will be limited to 20%, this is law. Private insurance has to pay 80% actual medical cost, and if they go over they have to refund the money to their customers. Lets see how you make that a bad thing. We pay twice as much for our health care then any other country on earth. We are ranked 38th in quality of care, this can be confirmed at the World Health Organization web sight. Other information in this was taken off the Kaiser family health care sight. Something has to be done, health care is one of the things that is breaking this country. As someone already said, Obamacares is not perfect, but it does contain a patients bill of rights.

and this is one lefty liberal that is sick and tired of paying for free riders like a pharmacist and a Lawyer both told me they were.

Red Dev BS: If you pay your MD a retainer fee of $2K a year for concierge service, and have to wait more than a few days for a routine appiontment, YOU are the moron.

shlt i coulda told you that. this concierge service is typically cash only and yeah you pay for 6 months out..you are an IDIOT

Why was President Obama - forced to stop playing golf?

He has no balls! (Some think Michelle "Bangs" has them)

Obama - No Golf?

Rep. Louie Gohmert recently introduced legislation that essentially would stop the president from going golfing unless the White House reinstates the public tours it canceled as a result of the sequester.

"None of the funds made available by a division of this Act may be used to transport the president to or from a golf course until public tours of the White House resume"

Oh I know----next they can criticize him for filling out brackets for the NCAA tournament.

If that fails, they can always bitch for days on end about his golf schedule.

Senator Tom Coburn, R-Okla., gives the President high marks for trying to talk to the GOP. But I thought the President has always tried to do that since Day one in 2009. It is the GOP that has played hard to get.

But anyway, at least Republicans give the President credit, which means the GOP has changed mind and been willing to work with the President.

It's good for the nation. It's a win-win.

Best wishes.

C'mon Ms. Piggy, the President hasn't reached out like he did before this past week. He has played the blame game and only until the polls showed he was losing support did he reach out. As for your assertion that the GOP has changed it's mind, maybe the President has offered to listen to the GOP. And it's not about who's right, but rather what's best for the nation.

But you're right about one thing, it is a win for the nation.

Think - the President has reached out many times over the past 4 years - for drinks at the White House; dinner at the White House; a private viewing of "Lincoln." All invitations had been declined by the Republicans in Congress. Try again!

Reaching out means more than drinks and social times. He needed to discuss the GOP's position and work with the Democrats on a compromise.

There's your try and I raise you a "where were the real discussions such as the one the other night with the Senators"

The President reached our on day one and the republicans slapped his hand. By the way, how did that one term thingie work out?

One term? And I'm sorry, but I'll say it again, making an invite to the White House without signaling the willingness to compromise is not reaching out. It was made for show. And when the President was first elected, he has a comfortable majority in both chambers of Congress, so his reaching out was no where near to what it was this past week. He didn't have to, which is why the Republicans know he wasn't going to listen to him. That changed in 2010 with the Republicans taking control over the house.

Now he needs their help, so the reaching out is more genuine.

Republicans like to complain President Obama is just too nice to be President. Then, they like to complain he gives effective speeches. (Horrors!) Cheney objects that it is better to be feared than liked, like Obama should scare the bejebus into House Republicans to make them do their jobs.

No when the President became the President, the republicans made up their mind that the were not going to work with a uppie Black Guy, and that is the truth.

I'm afraid he's finally had enough and is going to schmooze them until they complain publicly about constantly being forced to shake hands with a colored man... Forcing the simply idiotic portion of their base to go Democrat and leaving the rest of them to rot with their own kind.

I'm sorry you feel that way Job1, but that's not true in my opinion. Because we know what you're saying is nothing more than an opinion.

I think the GOP didn't work with the President because they had no incentive to work with him. Anyway, I'm sorry to see the race card played once again. It's getting old.

Obama tried to work with Boehner, so why do the repubs now talk about Obama concessions they never heard about? Boehner has been lieing to his own party members and covering it up by saying Obama hasn't proposed any cuts in spending.

The Koch brothers are getting their monies worth with Boehner - a key position that can sabatoge everything by withholding Obama's outreach. So now we know - Obama does an end-around to talk to the repubs directly and they are amazed at how much Obama has put on the table. Boehner is in it for the money, the booze, and the rounds of golf - you do know he plays more golf than Obama, don't you?

Think about it - so, let me get this straight. You THINK it was appropriate for the Republicans in Congress to meet, the first day of the President's term - and vow to block EVERYTHING he proposed - in order to make him a one-term President? You DO KNOW they did that, right?

He has made numerous attempts to work with a group that vowed to obstruct everything he proposed - to hell with the country. And, you have NO problem with that?

And, that is more than opinion since the Republicans have had to admit the meeting - hosted by McConnell. Where is your outrage over that????

@ Job 1

Do you have that exact statement from any Republican?

He has made numerous attempts to work with a group that vowed to obstruct everything he proposed - to hell with the country. And, you have NO problem with that?

What about "we don't like the looks of the direction you are headed with your ideas, bad for the country" don't you understand? Just why is it that everything, no matter what it is as long as it's Obama, is right for the country? Just curious. Stay cool.

I didn't thinks so. Way to make sure you got uppie black in your post

positively monosyllabic volumes!

Like Bill Maher says, they are in a bubble where NO FACTS are allowed in. They honestly believe that they lost in November because they didn't use the right public relations and imaging firm.

Gasp if they ever figure it out,...It's your AGENDA, morons! Americans have SOUNDLY rejected it!

Clara - what is even funnier, the GOP spent millions on a firm that actively engaged in voter registration fraud, and they still lost the election. Apparently, the firm is a fraudulent failure.

Ryan has broken his promise.

First his budget plan doesn't work - other than destroying the middle class and victimizing the seniors.

Second, his plan was rejected overwhelmingly by voters.

Third, he promised only to cut Medicare benefits for those under 55, now he has changed to those 56 & under.

What a moron.

What the...?

Think Progress:

Even as American corporations are raking in record profits, the largest among them are shifting larger amounts of money away from the United States and into offshore tax havens that allow them to pad their bottom lines even more, according to multiple analyses of legal filings made since the beginning of 2013.

The Wall Street Journal found that the 60 largest companies moved $166 billion offshore in 2012, shielding 40 percent of their earnings from American taxes and costing the U.S. billions in lost revenue..

______________

NO CUTS! Senator Warren, Senator somebody - DO SOMETHING!

We should not foot the bill for two wars when money is being hidden.

Make the war mongers and all those who profited from the wars pay the bills. And that includes the media outlets who pushed these wars on behalf of Cheney.

Those Bush tax cuts killed us. We need REVENUE, not cuts.

We need REVENUE, not cuts.

GSA, GSA, GSA...gotta fund those government rap videos...good call Pat

Close the loop holes, then talk about cuts.

Cut the spending, then talk about closing loopholes.

Nope, The President won and that is what the people want. So, close the loop holes, then talk about cuts.

The President doesn't get to make that decision, as we've already seen. He needs to work with Congress, not tell Congress what to do. That "I won" thing doesn't work as the polls show he is losing support for his position.

To be honest, if he had proposed cuts with the GOP BEFORE the sequester and got it through, he would have been on better ground for getting loopholes closed, but he miscalculated that one.

Think -

Cut the spending, then talk about closing loopholes.

The major driver of the government's increased spending is healthcare costs. Obamacare was/is an attempt to curb the growth of these costs, which if left unchecked will continue to dominate our expenditures.

The Ryan plan to turn Medicare into a voucher system does NOTHING to reduce the cost of healthcare, it simply adds to the profit margin of health insurers and transfers the added costs to our future seniors.

If Republicans are truly serious about spending reductions and deficit control then they will quit attempting to privatize Medicare and instead work on a bi-partisan solution to reduce the overall cost of healthcare.

Modifying and improving Obamacare in a bipartisan fashion is a much better approach than repealing it and starting over.

TNSEVOL,

I don't disagree with you, but the Sequester was out there for a reason. TO CUT SPENDING. The President had a golden opportunity to sit down and work out the Sequester, but he didn't. It wasn't just about Medicare, but the entire Federal Government. And if the President had done that, in my opinion, he would have leverage on getting the loopholes closed.

And again, I agree that the ACA should and will be modified once it's implemented. There will be flaws in it that only will come to roost once its up and running. But cutting the spending is on the side of the GOP now so our President needs to step and get a compromise out there.

The President doesn't get to make that decision, as we've already seen.

Oh yes he does! If they don't get on board, he will be hitting the road in order to get the American People on board. It's his way or the high way. We control 2 to 1.

Yeah, but you need 3 to 0 to control everything and the President doesn't have that. And his hitting the road didn't work too well over the Sequester battle now did it? You and I both know that is why he is reaching out to the GOP as he should. They (the GOP) should also sit down with a reasonable position so we can get the job of government done.

But from where I sit, I have the opinion that you believe the President should have absolute control. That's a scary thought. I mean, I wouldn't want ANY President, Democrat or Republican to have absolute control. It's called a dictatorship and that never works out very well for the people.

Good day.

Yes, it's got to change

Think Progress:

But due to a loophole in labor protection laws, home health aides often make less than minimum wage, earning about $20,000 per year. And that’s just the full-time workers. Part-time health aides, who make up most of the profession, make even less and don’t receive benefits — leading to a sadly ironic situation in which health workers are often forced to forgo their own health care and turn to government safety net programs:

Under these conditions, it’s no surprise then that about 40% of home aides rely on public assistance, such as Medicaid and food stamps, just to get by.

“What you have is a situation here where the people that we count on to care for our families cannot take care of their own, and that’s got to change,” said Ai-jen Poo, director of the National Domestic Workers Alliance. [...]

A recent study by the Institute for Women’s Policy Research estimates immigrants make up 28% of home health care workers, and of those, one in five are undocumented.

The Census Bureau has found that 53% of home health aides are minorities. By their calculations, it is the single most common job for black women, who alone represent nearly a third of the entire profession.

This is part of the reason workers are undervalued and underpaid, say worker advocates like Eileen Boris, a professor of feminist studies at the University of California, Santa Barbara.

The fact that the populations who are already disproportionately affected by poverty and poor access to essential services are turning to such low-wage, low-benefit jobs is a sad reflection on both America’s economic recovery and holes in the social safety net. In fact, most of the jobs added to the U.S. economy since the recession ended pay low wages.

Under Obamacare, home health aides will serve as essential foot soldiers in the fight to make America’s health care system more efficient. The Obama Administration has been pushing to revamp labor protections for home health aides, but that effort has not enjoyed much success so far.

Was I the only one to notice the mistyping in #5 by Pat?

It's Rowe versus Wade. But if you want to bring Karl into the argument ....

Think -

The President had a golden opportunity to sit down and work out the Sequester, but he didn't.

That is a little bit of revisionist history. The Sequester was put in place to try and force a bipartisan Congressional committee to come to an agreement on how to reduce the deficit, but the Republican members of the committee refused to even consider any additional revenue measures.

President Obama then offered a "balanced" plan that even included a reduction in entitlement spending, but Boehner could not deliver the votes. Remember even the "Plan B" failed?

I am not saying that President Obama is blameless, but he certainly came to the table much more willing to compromise and negotiate than the Republicans in the House.

No amount of leadership can accomplish much if one side refuses to compromise.

Blearyeyed -

It is actually Roe v Wade......

It's Rowe versus Wade

Rove. Yikes.

Pat -

I am sure you meant:

Rove vs Sanity

Rove vs Facts

Rove vs Logic

Rove vs Science

Now we're back to "the sequester cuts were President Obama's idea, it's all his fault they were implemented, and hey, isn't it great the government is cutting spending, and it won't be the disaster Obama predicted, but, still, it's Obama's fault, and if he were a real leader he would have taken Congress out to lunch and explained why they needed to halt the sequester, and it's all his fault, but it's not the disaster they said it would be..." over and over again in an endless loop.

@ Amy

Yes indeed

These 2 party's should have never done that. Also, seeing what it would do if enacted, I as the signer to put it into effect, would believe my conscience would have told me: NO WAY CAN I SIGN THIS

What, ya'll can't come up with your own phraseology you have to steal it from the democrats

If these dumbfux had an original thought they would be dangerous!

If these dumbfux had an original thought they would be dangerous!

And if you lefties would open your eyes and ears, you wouldn't be quite so dangerous.

And just when did the Dem/lib/liv/progressives coin the phrase low information voters? Seems to me it was shared pretty much from day one.

And just when did the Dem/lib/liv/progressives coin the phrase low information voters? Seems to me it was shared pretty much from day one.

For me it was when Sarah Palin, the WT Queen fist joined McCain as his running mate.

I think it was when surveys showed, FOX viewers were more inclined to believe Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 than non-FOX viewers.

My memory only dates it back to my reaction to your first post TTTH... but I'm pretty sure I wasn't the first to spot it in the wild.

We will not be repealing Obama care. That is the law of the land and it's here to stay, and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. Period!!!

I think we need to call Ty Pennington and the crew as at the very least it needs an "Extreme Makeover".

Uh, Job1, Prohibition was the law of the land way back when and it was repealed. So never say never.

Personally, I think there needs to be some changes in the law so companies don't discard their insurance because it's easier to let the "government do it".

The republicans had the chance to work with the President on the health care issue and they chose not to. So something had to be done. It's not the best. However, it could be with single payer or a public option, as that was what the people wanted when the debate first came up.

Everyone needs to read the TIME article by Steven Brill. Health care doesn't have to be outrageously expensive.

Oh brother...you my friend are an idiot. Medicare needs to get fixed...NOW, it will only get worse. As for SS we will just borrow from our future to pay for what we need today...NOT SMART.