E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Pool / Getty Images
Sens. Ron Johnson, Tom Coburn, Richard Burr and Saxby Chambliss leave The Jefferson after a dinner with President Barack Obama on March 6, 2013 in Washington, DC.
Senators emerging from dinner with President Obama at The Jefferson Hotel in Washington, D.C, Wednesday night described the sit-down as a positive conversation focused largely on building more productive ways to solve the country's fiscal problems.
"I am more optimistic, just from a personal standpoint. It's just, you know, having been in the group of eight, it's tough sledding. It's just very tough sledding," said Sen. Mike Johanns, R-Neb. "These are very difficult issues but I do think there's a real fatigue in just going from crisis to crisis. But tonight was a good first step. A good step."
Sen. John Hoeven, R-N.D., said the senators and the president discussed the upcoming fiscal fights over funding the government, writing a budget and the wrangling over the debt ceiling. Hoeven said there is "an opportunity" to use the debt ceiling fight to solve the county's long term entitlement problems.
Sen. Pat Toomey, R-Pa., said the conversation was "wide ranging" but when asked, wouldn't say if they discussed immigration or gun control.
"We had a wide ranging discussion about fiscal and other issues. I think it was a constructive discussion," he said.
President Obama hosts several Republicans for dinner to ease sequester tensions. NBC's Tracie Potts reports.
Sen. John McCain stayed largely mum: "All I can say is we had an evening that I really appreciated very much."
Sen. Lindsey Graham, the dinner organizer, left about 20 minutes before the other attendees and the president departed the hotel.
A senior administration official later said, "The president greatly enjoyed the dinner and had a good exchange of ideas with the senators."
As for who paid for dinner, several senators said they had no idea. Initially, Hoeven said several people split the check; later, his office clarified that while Sen. Saxby Chambliss had offered to pay, the president picked up the tab.
Prior to the meeting, the Republicans who were invited gave Obama the benefit of the doubt -- even if they didn't want to elaborate.
"I'm just looking forward to having a constructive conversation," said Bob Corker, R-Tenn., before dashing into the Senate chamber and away from prying reporters.
"I'm happy to go there and listen and provide input," said Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wis., a dinner invitee who won his Senate race with considerable Tea Party backing and isn't usually on lists of moderate senators inclined to deal-making.
As he walked out of The Jefferson, a swanky D.C. hotel that bills its main restaurant as "discreet and elegant," McCain told reporters the meeting was "just fine," and flashed a thumb-up. Moments later, senators Tom Coburn, Chambliss and Kelly Ayotte were seen exiting.
The idea for the sit-down came during a meeting Graham and McCain had with Obama at the White House last week.
"How do you say no to the president of the United States who would like to have dinner with some of your colleagues? You don't," Graham said.
Related: Obama reaches out to GOP senators as Democrats seek more revenue
"When the president asked that I put together a group, I willingly -- I was honored to try to do that. Where this goes, I don't know."
Added Graham: "It is incumbent on us to reach back. When he reaches out, we need to reach back."
At the top of the dinner's agenda was the possibility of a grand bargain combining entitlement reforms with lowering tax rates and closing loopholes that would head off the sequester and tackle some of the country's worst budget woes.
So far, negotiations between the White House and GOP leaders have led only to gridlock. Graham insisted the dinner wasn't a divide-and-conquer strategy, with the president going around Republican leaders in favor of the rank-and-file.
"I would say this is an effort by the president to talk to people who he would like to talk to who he normally doesn't talk to. I think he talks to the leadership guys a lot. This is not about replacing anybody," said Graham.
Said Sen. John Thune, a member of GOP leadership: "There have always been attempts to sort of co-opt a few people up here. But this seems to be a more general outreach.
"Instead, Republicans say it's evidence that Obama's the one taking political heat for the sequester budget cuts that went into effect last week."
I think the president sort of got on the wrong side with the sequester by going out and using the scare tactics. And I think that's kind of bit him," Thune said. "He saw a 7-point drop in his approval rating in one week, and I think a lot of it had to do with the way he handled this."
Democrats familiar with the White House's thinking said the dinner was an attempt to "bring down the temperature" between Obama and the congressional GOP.
This story was originally published on Wed Mar 6, 2013 1:44 PM EST
Leave a Comment:
All I Got To Say..Picking Up Tab For Dinner..Is Not What You Should Do After Saying We're Broke..
I have a good plan to balance the budget. No state gets back from the federal government more than they contribute. The deep south would be in deep doo doo.
You are sooooo right and sooooooo smart... JimS-459172 OR you would have a decent number. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...you Jmmy are a joke...read your post...IF it weren't for the SOUTH you idiots would have NO WHERE TO RUN for whatever reasons...because of your jobs, unions, prostitution, corrupt pols, corrupt pols, corrupt pols....etc...Do You UNDERSTAND ......yet.....probably not...Enjoy the Snow...you FI!
So true Jim. Ironically enough, the small government proponent "red" states just happen to be the largest parasites on the federal budget. "Red" states contribute a fraction of what they receive from the federal government while "blue" states are left to pick up the tab.
So true digger. No prostitution or corrupt politicians in the South. Highest income level in the nation and the lowest obesity rates. Highest education levels you ask? that's right....the South, not to mention the lowest levels of abuse of prescription drugs........delusional
So not true! You liberal nadless wonders don't have a clue. California by itself is the brokest most messed up state in the union and it is blue. Explain that yuppy boy. Liberals! left you gonads on the alter of liberal idealism, which means you wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the empty spot where your nads used to be.
I suspect the tax payers picked up the check.
Warren Buffett, in a recent interview with CNBC, offers one of the best quotes about the debt ceiling:
"I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "Y...ou just pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election.
The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That was in 1971 - before computers, e-mail, cell phones, etc.
Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took one (1) year or less to become the law of the land - all because of public pressure.
Warren Buffet is asking each addressee to SHARE this on Facebook or forward this email to a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask each of those to do likewise.
In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message. This is one idea that really should be passed around.
Congressional Reform Act of 2012
1. No Tenure / No Pension.
A Congressman/woman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they're out of office.
2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social
Security.
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.
3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.
4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise.
Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.
5. Congress loses their current health care system and
participates in the same health care system as the American people.
6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.
7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen/women are void effective 12/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen/women.
Congress made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in
Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers
envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their
term(s), then go home and back to work.
If each person SHARES this on Facebook or contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive the message. Don't you think it's time?
THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!
Here here, now help me hold a barrett to mcconnell's head so we can actually get the GOP to do it. We already know the democrats will. Hell they've tried twice already in the last 5 years.
Obama: The sequester is not something I proposed.....Oooops, a LIE
Obama: These janitors are going to be getting pay cuts....Oooops, a LIE
Napolitano: Airports had long waits and delayed flights this weekend....Ooooops, a LIE
ICE: Released TWO THOUSAND illegals picked up for breaking OTHER laws of this country, from multiple illegals crossings to who knows what, a week BEFORE the sequestration even happened and blamed it on the sequestration.....Oooops, a LIE.....Oh and did NOT inform one single local or State law enforcement agency that there were THOUSANDS of lawbreakers now running their streets....Oooops, a LIE by omission
Duncan: Hundreds of teachers are being given pink slips right now.....Ooooops, a LIE
Obama: Thousands of police and firefighters will lose their jobs.....Oooooops, a LIE
Obama: Cutting the budget by 85 billion dollars will cuts benefits and services to poor children....Ooops, a LIE
Internal email in the Dept of Agriculture: However you manage the reduction, you need to make sure you are NOT CONTRADICTING what WE said the impact would be....Oooops, don't save money intelligently, save it the most painful and PUBLIC way possible.
Obama: We can't cut 85 Billion dollars from the Budget....Oooops, a LIE since the cut is a whole 1.25% cut to the SPENDING INCREASES and NOT to the budget itself.
Gee, nothing but LIES from "the most transparent administration in history" and you libs not only support this LYING, corrupt, Failure in Chief, but you'll LIE right along with him. And then ATTACK anyone that actually has the temerity to tell the TRUTH and point out the LIES.
Good job libs, you follow along like the good little uniformed, uncaring, dishonest, hateful, human beings that you are.
cheryl, #1 false, Lew took the idea from boehner's 2009 presentation and took it to obama, who then used it, and boehner claimed he got 98% of what he wanted in that sequester negotiation.
#2 You so sure about that? It's only been a couple weeks.
#3 What do you expect to happen when the immigration laws your party screwed up 15 years ago are nearly impossible to traverse now and are entirely unfair to those who have been waiting the longest to get in? And lie by ommission? They told the NYT and FOX a week before it happened!
#4 not a lie. 206 teachers in ohio have been laid off already.
$5 again wrong, at least in Ohio and New Jersey, both republican run.
#6 actually child food subsidies have been defunded 307 million dollars, and meals on wheels was defunded 87 million.
#7 source please...
#8 moot point, federal discretionary spending has always needed to keep pace with inflation in order for the economy to not crack under its own weight.
And obama has a 71% transparency rating according to independent fact checkers the world over. Bush barely had 31%.
Patrick,
#1...A LIE..Even Obama himself has bragged how HE came up with the sequester idea in a television interview, and never mind Jay Carney ADMITTING it last week.
#2... A LIE...NO ONE is getting a pay cut, period. While there will be furloughs, the ONLY government employees that are actually going to get hit hard is the Department of Defense.
#3...You do NOT allow people that have not only crossed our borders but BROKEN OTHER LAWS loose because of a budget cut of ANY kind. You might cut back on purchasing uniforms, or vehicles, or training or anything ELSE. Only a MORON supports releasing criminals.
#4...A LIE....Ohio teachers are paid by the state and local school districts and NOT the Federal Government. If they were laid off it was because of the budgets of THOSE entities, and NOT because of a 1% cut in ADDITIONAL SPENDING by the government.
#5..A LIE...police and firefighters are paid by the cities, counties,and States, NOT the federal government
#6...A RAISE in the spending was cut 305 million dollars, and if they "defunded" anything it was a "defunding of the INCREASE IN SPENDING. The money from 2012 was STILL there, with an INCREASE in spending by the way.
#7...The Department of Agriculture email RELEASED by a Department supervisor that received it.
#8....What INFLATION????? These increases were "planned" and NOT based on ANY inflationary numbers whatsoever.
So you just don't give a damn about the LIES, is that what you're saying? After all Obama has a "71% transparency rating", like that actually "proves" something????? And take your going back to pulling up Bush from OVER FOUR YEARS ago and please place it where the sun doesn't shine. Bush is GONE and has been GONE for a long time now. We're talking about NOW and the LIES we are getting from this tax, borrow, regulate, and SPEND SPEND SPEND failure.
According to the GAO there are OVER 260 BILLION dollars in fraud, waste, abuse, and redundant programs. Are you saying the this administration and Obama's appointees to the LEADERSHIP of the Cabinet and Departments can't cut fraud, waste, abuse andredundant program spending by ONE QUARTER????? But instead just has to shut down things to make a "point" so he can attack Republicans for not giving him more BILLIONS of tax dollars and MORE spending?
Obama shut down White House tours because of "sequestration". Ooops, a LIE since tours of the White House are run by UNPAID VOLUNTEERS. Wow a real "hit" to the budget there, right?
You are the epitomy of an uninformed, dishonest, liberal.
cheryl,
#1 source
#2 I have as a living witness seen otherwise
#3 the federal prison industrial complex was full to bursting and could barely handle the capacity as it was. Frankly, I understand ICE not having any other choice.
#4 the state education budgets are partially if not majorily derived from the federal DOE appropriations. you need a civics lesson.
#5 Again, do you know how much your state governments borrow against the federal government each year? You can certainly bet the federal budget pays for a number of state budgets
#6, no, it was a raw cut with NO increase in spending. I know what I'm saying. you apparently don't.
#7, again, source link or shut your trap.
#8, you do know inflation happens any time a new dollar enters the market right? That's why printing trillions a year is a bad thing...
And I agree with cutting fraud and redundancies. I've seen 12 democrat bills since 09 trying to do this and they've been fillibustered to death!
And the SPEND SPEND SPEND failure is a failure by house GOP with absolute power of the purse when there's no formal budget! And actually whitehouse tours have not been run by volunteers since 9-11.
And I'm a green and I'm more conservative than you.
It is an extremely sad irony that the great nation that once led and ultimately won the righteous war against global communism in the 20th century should become infected by and succumb to that same awful disease in the 21st century. What America needs today is the return of someone like that great American patriot Senator Joe McCarthy to help purge it of the pervasive communist infiltration that now threatens to suck the life blood of this once great nation.
Of course a radical right winger would bring up the filth that was McCarthy
hahhahahahahahhahahahah
The right gets more radical every day.
Put away the hoods, put away the racism.......Your kind is dying.
And that's why they are losing elections.
God Bless America
Goon boy
Eat sheet tea bagger. You lost.,,hahahaha
Bulletman, doesn't matter tea bagger,rep or dem
the people who pay taxes have lost.so since your only comment can be to tell someone to eat @!$%#.
Why don't you go F**** yourself
Lindsey Graham was presented with a clear moral choice. He could have shown himself to be a true American patriot by refusing to compromise with the evil entity residing in the White House and with Satan’s Communists in congress but instead chose to become a Stalinist RINO appeaser. When his term is up, he will be banished in shame and subsequently replaced by a suitable Tea Party patriot. "Patriot" Grover Norquist will see to that !
So doing nothing and watching the people suffer is patriotic? And you wonder why the GOP popularity is in the toilet?
Patrick...Did you write that big check to the IRS yet? Let me help you out. The IRS is spelled IRS. Now write the check.
iloveusa. I bet you don't know the difference between a bit, a qubit, a byte, and a pseudobyte. Also, INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE! I make my six figures a year, and yes I pay extra income tax because I actually AM a patriot to this country.
Oh Patrick, you speaky with forked tongue...A true patriot that makes six figures would throw in an exta $10K with his taxes. Now write the check.
ilove, I already do. the top tax rate was 35%, I paid 40, now it's 38.6% and I'll still pay 40%! Jesus christ...
Patrick, I'm just messin with you boy. This is the same thing that Obama is doing to all of us. Enough is never going to be enough. You don't like it any more than the rest of us, but yet you support it. Hard to figure.
I don't support it but the fact is this is squarely the GOP's fault for not ever maturing and never sitting down in good faith for negotiation. Also, the GOP has absolute power over federal spending since they own the house and there is no formal budget enacted right now!
Patrick, If you would quit acting like a spoiled 15 year old girl, blaming everyone for all your own problems, you could clear your mind and understand what is really going on. Try to quit listening to MSNBC and research the real facts. Beware that there is a lot of BS on the internet.
That is the last advice I am going to give you. If you want to keep acting like a big baby that is your choice.
I don't watch news love. You're the one with your head up his rear. I actually buy medical and economics journals from the top people in the world. And I actually bother to watch the direct proceedings of the house and senate. I actually take notes and don't regurgitate maddow or limbaugh, maher or oreilly. I actually do the work those stooges are incapable of doing.
That's justice. He raised their taxes so he is the only one who can afford it, paying with their money.
The right,has been wrong on every issue,thats why they keep,losing,,,
No, it's because the dumbing down of America by liberals has finally reached 51% of Americans...mostly the welfare folk and young people who are too stupid to know anything......look at your demographics you fool and count yourself a member.
Finally, some progress over some cocktails...now they just need the house memebers to drink with the Prez...This goodwill will probably last a whole 12 hours until the posturing flares up again!
Everyone would be better off going "dutch" on the dinner if OBAMA only paid for his golf weekend with Tiger!
You the tax sucker paid,,,loser
Wow. You guys should walk up the stairs, out of your mom's basement and into the sunlight.
Breathe the fresh air.
Live.
RICO
What a bunch of BS....all the armchair quarterbacks at it again. The hate and ignorance flows. Divide and conquer, the DC crowd has all of you at each others throats. Right, left, democrat, republican, tea bagers what other nonsense will transpire. Sad.......and embarrassing. What happened to integrity?
Tim, that is a tough question for the Libs. Almost like asking them what happened to responsibility and respect. They have removed those words from the "Liberal Speak".
what happened to integrity? Bush jr., gingrich, mcconnell, and boehner happened to it...
Hm mm......I wonder if Obama used the taxpayers credit card or his own personal credit card. I am betting he used the Taxpayer American Express.
How can Obuma pick up the tab? Isn't he crying that the world is being destroyed by sequester? Layingh hundreds of thousand of workers. But of course he wants the tax payers to pick up his tab as usual. Now he can say that he tried to work together for the "greater cause" and than blame it on the Republicans, the weather or atms. Go blow it out president!
You are eating too much red meat!
Maybe too many facts for the average American intelligence. Sad that our country voted in such a subnversive person to lead such a great nation. Or at least used to be. Find me a GREAT Ronald Regan again!!
Ahhh yes, the Great Reagan, founder of modern day deficit spending......
the white house budget is already funded...he's not taking anything more out of your pockets than was already taken at the start of the fiscal year.
so before I rant about the rep party lets look how smart doctors really are-
they sign contracts with insurance companies that inhibit them from being involved in malpractice cases of other doctors -
so they actually pay the insurance companies to keep the bad doctors in business
when it is the incompetent doctors that are the ones who get sued so the good doctors insurance is high -they have high insurance because the protect others who are far less adept at medicine
-for such smart people it seems like they don't understand-also I thought people became doctors to help people not to help doctors who do a bad job-in any other profession they would be fired and struck off
now to the train wreak of the REP party
so aren't these the same people who work with rep congress-same party same ideals
the same people who stood by Romney as he lied everyday in the election
same people who have said time and time again they would not raise taxes regardless whether America needed or not and signed a petition saying they wouldn't under any circumstance's well
Definition of treason (n)
bing.com · Bing Dictionary
trea·son
[ trz'n ]
Treason | Define Treason at Dictionary.com
dictionary.reference.com/browse/treason
noun 1. the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign. 2. a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state. 3 ...
now my point is to automatically discount policies before they have even have been proposed whether or not they would help
is preventing policies that potentially could work from being implemented-now to do this knowing that it would help America to gain more revenue to stimulate the country is hurting and harming America's progress by preventing discussion is treason in my book
it's hurting America for there own donators gain regardless of everybody else
the frightening thing is the wealthy of this country actually would have voted in a guy who so blatantly lied- why would you vote in a president who acted this way
now ryan once again showed his brains-if you bring a proposal like he did in the election that was so obviously a poor example of math -you would think you would come back with a better proposal but oh no he bought one that is worse so why is he even in the party-if you get an E on the first one you don't shoot For an F the second time around
now the other thing is what type of man would in one breathe promise using his mother to market his plan then comes in and basically tells them you know what I decided he wouldn't stand by his promise
is this even the republican party because to hold a government hostage to get there way by potentially stopping helpful policies under different circumstances would be called sabotage of government and America
personally after what they want to do with disaster relief i'm surprised christe hasn't bailed because the reps didn't want to keep funding fema when jersey and new York need it most
it's like giving the big apple a big middle finger-i'm sure it's not because it's really a democrat state
I am a person who likes balance and believes America deserves and should have better
where's the green party now if the dems are smart they would include the green party-they actually during the election had very good policies
the green party is more conservative than either the GOP or the Tea Party, and we'd never sell our souls to either of the big 2 (pseudo 3rd included).
Nice rant. Guess you listen to ABC, CBS, NBC or MSNBC for the latest propoganda. You have finished well in the class of idiots.
robert, I don't watch news networks. I simply watch the live feeds of the house and senate and buy medical journal reports and buy economics journal reports from the top world experts and universities. I actually do the work which makes you cry yourself to sleep to think about.
The green party is for the protection of the unborn? They beleive that hard working people should keep their own hard earned money? One nation under God? Upholding the Constitution?
robert one nation under god was invented by JFK I hope you knew that... But yes, conditional yes yes, and yes.
Maybe you are confused and they are just real conservative GOPer's.
Robert, nope, I've been a green for 10 years and I know the stances like the back of my hand and why. And no the GOP is not conservative at all. A child is not conscious and has no awareness, sense of self, or pain until after 21 weeks. Limiting abortions to 12 weeks when most women don't even know they're pregnant until that point is ludicrous and is merely a controlling method of male chauvinism to remove power of choice and independence from women. Furthermore, it also removes the responsibility of controlling birth rates which if left unchecked by the combination of birth control, sickness, and homosexuality, would send us spiralling to a species-wide extinction as we outgrew our logistical abilities to gather and allocate resources. The conservatives in the GOP of 50 years ago were the logical ones. That was the GOP's edge, but they knew where to draw the line.
The current GOP is nothing more than hypocritical neo-conservatives hiding behind the guise of liberty while they would easily quash certain freedoms with an iron fist and reinstate patriarchy while calling such a thing freedom. Wanting to bring christianity back into schools is one thing. To mandate that it be taught to all students is another. See? NEO-Conservative.
All you sore losers,,lmao,
You,lost,now get lost.
The grown ups,are in charge now
January 20, 1961
John F. Kennedy inaugural address - passages:
"...the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God."
"Let the word go forth.....that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans."
"Let every nation know... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of liberty."
"The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life."
"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich."
"Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate."
"For only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed."
"And if a beachhead of cooperation may push back the jungle of suspicion, let both sides join in creating a new endeavor, not a new balance of power, but a new world of law, where the strong are just and the weak secure and the peace preserved."
"All this will not be finished in the first 100 days. Nor will it be finished in the first 1,000 days, nor in the life of this Administration, nor even perhaps in our lifetime on this planet. But let us begin."
"The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it – and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country."
"With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on Earth God's work must truly be our own."
No matter what you may feel about JFK, something wrung back to our nation's founders..mention of God, mention of conscience, mention of what you can do for your country...
My god...what the hell happened to the democrats...in 50 years?
the founders didn't put GOD in our documents, and yes JFK was a great leader but it's a falsehood to claim that america was founded on christianity. all proof is to the contrary. Simply reading the biographies of the founding fathers and the federalist papers and the constitution beginning to end should prove this to you.
It's called evolution. We should have our best scientists trying to figure out why evolution has left republicans behind. We can not help them if we can't figure out what is wrong with them.
Hey Patrick,
Read the Declaration of Independence, would you please...
That's our country's founding document...and the word God is used a couple of times...along with Divine providence...
the Creator, The supreme Judge of the World, etc...
No, not of particular religion...but of God or Nature's God...
Read up on Jefferson a little...You'll see...Really...
Right on Patrick.....The majority of our founding fathers can best be described as deists. Perhaps believing in a higher power but nothing close to what the zealots of today profess. Interestingly enough, it is said that the good Federalist women of New England hung their bibles in their wells when the "atheist" Thomas Jefferson won the election of 1800 for fear of Jefferson abolishing religion. Delusional thinking is a part of our heritage.
bg, try again, jefferson himself described in federalist 6 that it was specifically a ruse to anger the church of england. And God as it exists in the Declaration of independence is in reference to a general creator or overriding universal principle, not the judeo-christian god. read jefferson's autobiographies sometime.
Very good BG. Some of the best stuff i have seen for quite a while.
Patrick, sorry not true. The original founders were believers for the most part in Judeo-Christianity. They even put forth their own money to give children bibles in the schools. Yes, some were deists but most were believers in a singular creator of the universe found in the Bible.
robert, only 3 were judeo-christians. Sorry but you've lost the argument again. Washington-deist, franklin-agnostic, adams1-christian adams2-anglican, madison-deist, marbury-wiccan. easily googleable facts.
Thank You Robert
Just because you read the liberal history doesn't make it true. Go watch Kirk Camerons "Monumental" you might learn something about history.
You do know cameron is in jail for plagiarism and has been slandered rightfully so by historians the world over for his incorrect representations in various projects right?
And robert, I own the biographies of every founding father, 4 of them autobiographies.
That's how good the left is at obfuscating fact...like Obama within his campaign...
They have figured out how to get half the people to believe that God isn't mentioned in our government's documents, and that it shouldn't be on our money nor in our schools because they have people convinced of separation of church and state means no God in government, which it doesn't, but that's what the crooked politicians and left wing newspapers want you to believe...but if you stand in the middle of the Jefferson Memorial in washington, and look around the ceiling you'll see the words "I stand here on the alter of God vowing to portray a hatred toward any form of human tyranny"..."as close as I can remember....it's been a long time since being there...
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of
America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to
dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to
assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which
the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the
opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel
them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that
they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among
these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these
rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from
the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes
destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish
it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles
and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to
effect their Safety and Happiness.......
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in
General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the
rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good
People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United
Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they
are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political
connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be
totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power
to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do
all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the
support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine
Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our
sacred Honor.
What a magnificent document...What a vision for a Country's beginning....
What an incredible group of Men or People...Courage...Intellect...Forethought...
a Dream...Turned into the Reality of the United States of America.
Our representatives now in Washington should all read that document a few extra times..it would do them well...
but that God is not the Judeo-christian God, it is the God of metaphysics, Jefferson's own creation actually. the logical exploration of the 7 holy geometries of the universe and the actual extrapolation of all existence from logic by the overriding principle or collective unconscious. The God of the Declaration of Independence is not the christian god. And if you ever bothered to read jefferson's biography or autobiography you'd know this, or the first 10 federalist paers for that matter...
For some reason, religious folks feel the need to embellish history to justify their beliefs. I guess the logic is if I claim the founding fathers all prayed to Jesus, therefore, my believe in Jesus must be accurate. Remember, the Virginians may not have been Christians, but they were slave owners, if that makes you feel better bg and robert.
appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the
rectitude of our intentions
with a firm reliance on the protection of divine
Providence
we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our
sacred Honor
No, must not have had any thought of God in there, can't see any, can you? must be my eyes...damn glare or something...
Have him read the Mayflower Pact and how it came about. You go, BG. Don't understand why Patrick is so anti-God? I can prove God exists and that all the five major religions are wrong, or one is right. And why one is the absolute truth. Book in the making, and doing my final proof reading.
bg, I'm not denouncing the founding fathers' believed in a higher power, I merely state that it's not the Judeo-christian higher power. And robert who gives a rat's rear end about the mayflower compact? There were other settlers here first anyway with no such compact. You're grasping at straws now.
And robert physics has already proven the existence of a God was unnecessary for the creation of the universe...it won't be long before they finish the job. I can fully accept the metaphysical believe in an outside power, but you cannot prove god to exist.
I guess you also believe that you are predestined to heaven bg. Are you claiming that God visited you and revealed that you are one of the "elect" predestined to heaven? You share the same beliefs as the author of the quote right? Whatever the puritans of 1620 believed validates your beliefs?
I don't know what you are talking about but
I'm talking about our country, the founding of our country, and what the founders of our country believed
and what's actually written within our country's founding document such as:
appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the
rectitude of our intentions
with a firm reliance on the protection of divine
Providence
we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our
sacred Honor
and their belief in Their Creator and of Nature's God was reinforced...and the belief in the support of such in the endeavor of founding our great country...
and it would seem to me pretty clearly, that the lot in washington right now would do pretty poorly appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of their intentions. Tragically.
Ironically enough, you base your religious justifications on a quote you know nothing about in regards to the religious beliefs of its author.
There are countries who set up their government in accordance with the "Supreme Judge". Are you proposing we fall in line with Iran? They share your same philosophy.
Hey Inde -
I'll go back to my earlier comment:
That's how good the left is at obfuscating fact...like Obama within his campaign...
They have figured out how to get half the people to believe that God isn't mentioned in our government's documents, and that it shouldn't be on our money nor in our schools because they have people convinced of separation of church and state means no God in government, which it doesn't, but that's what the crooked politicians and left wing newspapers want you to believe...but if you stand in the middle of the Jefferson Memorial in washington, and look around the ceiling you'll see the words "I stand here on the alter of God vowing to portray a hatred toward any form of human tyranny"..."as close as I can remember....it's been a long time since being there...
I mention no religious justifications - I have read much about Jefferson and his beliefs of Nature's God...
I have semblance of what other's have written here about the diversity of the signers of the Declaration of Independence,
and am aware of the support of religious freedom and the protection desired from religious persecution.
This country, our country, was founded within a vision of the highest aspirations of God, with the integrity believed to be sufficient for that statement "with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence". If you can not see that, nor feel that by looking at america, this nation of immigrants, by visiting the monuments in washington, nor of reading our declaration of independence, nor of seeing how a country such as ours along the way has stopped such great evils as slavery, or of stopping the greatest evils within WWII, and helping many nations survive worldwide etc., etc., or how a country such as ours has proliferated numerous advancements to science and humanity, of the hope and dream of what was truly meant to be a representative government...
If you can not see that, I can only hope for you that one day you might get that opportunity.
and look how they're corrupting the republicans...
Repukes are already crooks
What is with all the talks of LIberals hating Chavez? When the hell did this ever happen? Last time I checked its the Republican's that always talking bout MERICA! MERICA! ITS BOUT MERICA! lol
give me a break, dont suck up to Chavez now that he is dead, the guy was a good Politician but a dictator none the less. He has good policies, but at the same time the man didnt do a lot of @!$%# an he was leading the country longer than necessary.
Obama is dicking with Boehner and McConnell by dining with these other bozos. Clever.
So why'd they accept the invitation?
Because Boehner is really bad at this job and McConnell is even worse.
True,two losers that will soon be gone,,,
He took 2% more than he was already taking out of my pocket this year (and every American), the least he could do is reach into his own damn pocket for a dinner or a round of golf for god's sake!!!
it's a business expense. The whitehouse budget which is already funded will pay for it.
Republicons will be losers in 2014-2016
One can only hope both parties lose some seats to independents like the libertarians or the greens.
Greens, maybe; libertarians, NEVER. Their ship has sailed and already sunk.
The LAST thing this country needs is more idiots in the mold of Rand Paul.
Rand Paul wears the name but not the actual beliefs. the tea party makes the real libertarians I know sick to their stomachs.
I can only hope that you're right, Patrick.
Republicons are always in formal free dinner
Bet chya that's the first dinner Obama has ever paid for..he prolly asked if food stamps would cover it.
I was just wondering, did you finish High School?
Troll much?