Conservatives: Severely paranoid

Long overdue is a comprehensive immigration reform with a path to citizenship. Many kids came to this great country and have known no country other than the United States, we can't punish them. So many corporations have lobbied Congress and consider this reform as pro-business. The dogMatic right-wingnuts are not pro-business as these rwnjs have claimed. A true conservatism is pragMatic, not dogMatic.

.

FORWARD....

One of the things the idiotic Congress could do that would be reasonable for moving immigration forward is to allocate more monies to process green cards. Listening to NPR yesterday, I was surprised by this statement on All Things Considered . . .

"The date that they're currently processing right now is back to 1993 — and it doesn't move," he says

This is for LEGAL immigration. Those at the FRONT of the line! Get with it already you dingbats!

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/02/22/172622730/the-line-for-legal-immigration-is-already-about-4-million-people-long

What is it with this group of GOP paranoids that they constantly spin the issues? I hope that the calm and normal Republicans in the party will prevail and see that there is a certain faction of the party that is dragging the party into the abyss and at the same time hurting this country. I would imagine that the Hispanic community is and has been watching this party very closely, and while some in the community may like certain aspects of the party platform, the party has done such a job on that community that I don't see a big shift moving towards their party. And why shouldn't the Democrats be drafting reform when the Republican Party has long been against Hispanics and immigration reform? I see it as the GOP being pissed that they are not going to get all the accolades to say to the Hispanic community, "See, we love you guys, look what we did for you!"

The republikans are looking back over their shoulder, terrified that Obama will screw them the way they have been trying to screw him. I would love to see Obama continue to heap political damage upon his sworn and vicious enemies. Oh wait... look! It's that Romney fella. Trying to stay in the picture. "Please give me one more chance, I promise I'll do better next time."

The republikans are like a man walking backwards, focused on where they've been, with no clue as to where they are going. And if they did turn around, who would they see? Little Marco Rubio? Ugh! Just turn back around, back to the Tea Party.

For as long as I can remember it's always been all about hate and fear with the GOP. Now you can add paranoia. They are always looking for an excuse to do nothing in Congress. That's one thing they are very good at....doing nothing.

The point is that there is a bipartisan support to the proposed immigration reform, although the Tea Party has complicated things a bit; but even Rand Paul, the Tea-sick darling, voiced support to the bipartisan immigration reform. It's going to get done.

Pigotry, just Porking around, loosen up - we are on the same team 99% of the time !!!

“The Republican Party is losing the support of our Hispanic citizens and we realize that there are many issues on which we think we are in agreement with our Hispanic citizens but this is a preeminent issue with those citizens,” Arizona Sen. John McCain

==============

Sure...because this sounds like the seasoned, Statesmen like reason to overhaul this Country's immigration policies.

Nothing about the economy of the Country...even the world, innovation, what Country will hub the wealth of tomorrow's technology, education, none of that . What motivates Republicans is "...losing support of the Hispanic citizens...", that is what makes them move.

And on a personal note...I take note of the continued use of the term "citizen". I would only add as a friendly reminder that not everyone 'legal' in the Country is a 'citizen'. I am a permanent resident of the US and have been so for over 3 decades. I've studied in this country, served the country in the Army Reserve, involved myself in the political discourse of the country, worked and paid taxes my entire working life. The only things I cannot do is hold public office and obviously vote.

Although not Hispanic myself, I would advise the good Senator to not be fooled into thinking that only Hispanic citizens can make a difference.

Roy - If Obama's net positive on job growth is a failure in your mind, pray tell: How do you judge Dubya's net negative on the same issue?

LOL, I love how the GOP has painted themselves so far into a corner that they're now getting upset that they have to paint over their own feet rather than genuinely change direction.

Sure...it's not the content, it's how you've been delivering it! That's right! That must be it!...it couldn't be that your stance is WRONG...it MUUUUUUUUUUST be the message...it couldn't possibly be that you are on the wrong side of history, science, justice and fiscal policy, and that you're now simply reaping what you've sewn.

Maybe if you find a few more token stooges to parrot your talking points you'll gain credibility and finally sell women on rape-babies as a gift from God forgiving you for being sluts or hispanics and the rest of the Middle Class on slave wages and neo-feudalism.

All hail our landed gentry, the venerable job-creators and saviors to us all! Serfs Up!

"President Barack Obama ... [is] pursuing the issue to exacerbate the GOP's problems with Hispanic voters.

Yet all of the evidence so far – whether in his speeches and or his relations with Congress – suggests he and his administration clearly want a deal that he could sign into law."

Republicans are completely incapable of accepting responsibility for themselves and their own actions, probably 98% of the time Republicans are on the wrong side of almost every issue.

Now Republicans want to blame President Obama for Republicans being so unpopular.

I think that's funny. When Republicans do everything in their power to hurt one man, and they focus all their time and energy into trying to force failure on the President of the United States, and that President is a minority, it tends make all minorties feel unconfortable, and it makes Republicans look racist.

oops, sorry , I meant 7000 jobs, not $7000, obviously. And I should have made it clear, I mean these people would be affected by having their hours cut, not that they would lose their jobs.

Absent a decision by Congress to avoid the across-the-board budget cuts that could go into effect next week, roughly 6,800 workers in Maine who are civilian employees of the Department of Defense could be placed on unpaid leave.

Rogers said the furloughs would be “devastating” for the Maine National Guard.

“If in fact this does go through and we do need to furlough the employees, it will definitely have a negative effect on military readiness in Maine and certainly nationwide,” he said.

Furloughs would also hurt the local economy.

http://bangordailynews.com/2013/02/21/business/possible-defense-department-cuts-could-affect-nearly-7000-maine-workers/

But Republicans’ concerns that Obama will jilt the GOP

Turnabout is fair play. The GOP jilted Obama and fellow Americans on Inauguration day 2009 when they hatched their ill-advised scheme to make Obama a one-term president. Too bad their plan was an epic failure. The American public caught on - Obama was reelected, now Obama enjoys overwhelming popularity, and on immigration, overwhelming support. Obama isn't jilting the GOP, the GOP jilted itself. And Americans, tired of being jilted at every turn and tired of these made-up GOP dramas, will send them packing in 2014. What is fun to watch is the GOP continuing to scratch their heads wondering why their favorable ratings are in the toilet.

TO: Joe in Albany who wrote:

"Republican's (Jack-off?) are prudent to be wary of the snake oil salesman in the Oval Office.

Never turn your back to someone who is likely to stick a big, sharp knife in you in a Chicago minute."

Stupid, unfounded, negative comments like that are destroying your party and your party's popularity, but all Republicans seem to care about is attacking the President of the United States.

As far as I'm concerned, I hope you doom your party forever because your hate-speech is sickening and your politics are even worse.

Republicans remind me of the jealous boyfriend who cheats on his girlfriend so he assumes she must cheat on him.

Just another effort to DODGE doing the hard work required to reform the system so it works. Seems to me the Republicans are looking for an EXCUSE for their failure to actually work for a CHANGE.

Yes, McCain was for it, then he was against it, now he's for it again....I think...It's been almost a week since I last checked his immigration stance.

Even when the John McCain breeze is blowing for it, one guy can't negate an entire party's angry rhetoric.

This isn't going to work for the Republicans either for the same reason that nothing else works for the Repulican; They're schizophrenic. The Mitt Romney/George Bush/U.S. Chamber of Commerce types are trying to become politcally acceptable to hispanics, while the moonpie wing is still screaming hysterically and foaming at the mouth about "anchor babies".

We'll get immigration reform, and Mexicans will still hate Republicans. You can't put all that screaming, and hatred back in the box. Notice that I said "Mexicans"? To clarify for you Republicans, that means "not Cubans."

@ ROY WILSON-336103

LOL, I suggest you parse those employment numbers between government and private sector jobs.

Oh look! The BLS already did it for us!

Over those timeframes, state and federal agencies were shedding jobs, curbing hiring and furloughing workers.

The private sector on the other hand has been increasing its workforce considerably.

So are you arguing for a larger government and more government workers "being paid in precious taxpayer dollars that could have gone to a private sector job, but didn't because it was taken as a tax from The Job Creators"?

LOL. I'm impressed with your mental gymnastics. Your contorting is something that puts Cirque du Soleil to shame!

So what is it Roy? Do you want a big government with lots of government workers, or do you want a private sector that grows and a government that shrinks

What is it that you're arguing?

/Hypocrite much?

So there is a clamor for comprehensive immigration reform. Can I just ask what an acceptable number of legal immigrants a year should be allowed in? Currently the figure is around 1m a year. How much higher should it be?

According to the Department of Homeland Security, the United States accepted 1,062,040 legal permanent residents in fiscal year 2011, a number that has been fairly steady over the past few years. Of this number, roughly 45 percent were new arrivals and about 55 percent were people already in the U.S. whose status was upgraded to "permanent."

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/jun/20/marco-rubio/marco-rubio-says-us-admits-1-million-immigrants-ye/

BTW. When they poll the public a majority supports immigration reform, however, they do not always show that a majority support a path to citizenship. I wonder if those who support comprehensive immigration reform know the current level of legal immigration?

More than half of U.S. citizens believe that most or all of the country's 11 million illegal immigrants should be deported, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Wednesday that highlights the difficulties facing lawmakers trying to reform the U.S. immigration system.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/21/us-usa-immigration-idUSBRE91K01A20130221

So Amie from Maine, how do we pay for it?? The total sequester is about 10% of the current deficit. I can tell you now this is the only way we will ever get this deep of cuts in the military or discretionary spending and it is not that much. Tax base has to be expanded, 50% of people paying federal tax is insane. Yes rich can pay more but I am in the top 10% and I dont make that much slightly more than 6 figures. Kids don't get Pell grants, I can't deduct my student loan interest or the financial aid I give them for school, I paid more than 10K of onlly federal income tax. Consumption tax and everbody pays 5%, loopholes closed and earned income tax credit scaled back and only if you can prove you are a legal citizen. Which brings us to immigration. Any republican that votes for immigration will have a tea party opposition in the next election, just a fact. The Republican party just needs to get the trailer trash tea party that used to be called the Klan out of the party and for good measure they need to get rid of the religious fanatics out also. I speak spanish, and have lived and worked in Latin America for the last 30 years, Hispanics are every bit as varied as whites are, the GOP just need candidates that aren't racist, women hating, religious fanatic pigs and they will get hispanic vote. A lot of people, myself included, didn't vote for Obama, we voted against the hate filled racist current GOP.

Average number of people working in 2012 = 133,254,000 That's a LOSS of more than 3.5 million jobs after 4 long years - something that the media has been careful NOT to report.

Number of retirees at the end of 2008 - 35,168,515

Number of retirees at the end of 2011 - 38,484,666

That's a gain of 3.3 million retirees after 3 long years - something that Roy Wilson has been careful NOT to report.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/OASDIbenies.html

TO: markinbecker who wrote:

"The GOP wants some credit for doing immigration reform..."

Marco Rubio claimed that he had something written down, but when he caught President Obama peeking over his shoulder Rubio chickened out and threw all his notes away.

Nice catch Red!

Seriously? No... Really?! -- Excellent take down of Roy's skewed post.

Amy, just who is the leader of this country. It's supposed to be Obama. But I haven't seen any leadership come from him yet. He is more interested in politicing and playing golf. If he were a true leader, he would lead by example. I wouldn't call dividing the country among the races, have and have nots, gun advocates and anti-gun advocates as being a leader. He and his fellow democrats who have staunchly supported him has encubated more hatred in this country that we have seen since the days before the civil rights. One doesn't lead by division. Leadership brings differing sides together for a common purpose. Obama has failed not only in his leadership abilities, but in anything else he as pursued as president. Definitely the worst president this country has every had. He left Carter behind light years ago!

I think what Republicans fear most is that immigration reform will actually pass, President Obama will get all the credit, and then Republicans still won't get their fence.

I'll bet the farm Obama plays the immigration issue like every other issue, a wedge to make republicans evil and democrats good. Too bad he's not a real lead/uniter, the republicans have the majority of public opinion on their side on most of the major issues facing the country. Hence, Obama's obsessions with fringe issues he can use to gain political favor for his party, at the expense of the nation. Obama, worst president by far, ever. If you don't believe it now, you will in the not too distant future.

President Obama will sign a fair immigration bill but will veto an unfair bill. Does that make it easier for the Republicans in Congress or are they too worried about their image to govern?

hardtostarboard

Obama obsessed with "fringe" issues"? Oh, you mean like then economy .... gun deaths .... immigration ..... voter rights ..... world peace

Your Republican hero held a meeting right after Obama's 2008 election and made plans to oppose everything the President tried to achieve and "make Obama one-term President" --- a mission that failed. But they still oppose everything and you who claim that call Obama divisive are willfully ignorant.

TO: don97524 who wrote:

"President Obama will sign a fair immigration bill but will veto an unfair bill. Does that make it easier for the Republicans in Congress or are they too worried about their image to govern?"

The only thing Republicans think about is how to screw the President.

In Massachusetts now, "trans-gender" school children can pick which bathroom/locker room they wish to use. A transgender may choose boys locker room today, girls locker room tomorrow. Imagine a 5th grade boy going into your daughter's bathroom....

Oh, and any child who complains about it will be punished...

www.mafamily.org/education/transgender-access-to-public-school-bathrooms-now-required-in-ma-by-commissioner/4287/

So we expect both parties to get together, then the President is going to except into law something the Republicans have helped put thogether maybe had a bigger hand in, believe it maybe, something most of us have said time and time again does not happen any other time. They are going to do this for people who have broken the laws of this Country, but they can not do this to balance the budget of this Country.

Anyboby else have a problem with this or just me?

the republicans have the majority of public opinion on their side on most of the major issues facing the country.

No, they don't. As posted by IR on another thread...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/02/21/the-morning-plum-on-issues-gop-is-badly-out-of-step-with-america/?hpid=z4

A recurring fear has colored Republicans' attitude toward the current immigration reform debate in Congress: President Barack Obama has no actual interest in reaching a deal, and is instead pursuing the issue to exacerbate the GOP's problems with Hispanic voters.

==============

Then the only way to play the scenario out is for the Gang of 8 (or whatever number they are now) to pass their legislation in the Senate...get the same or some derivation to pass the House and then pass the Senate again if necessary and put the ball in the court of the President to veto it while it sits on his desk.

You see folks, he doesn't have all the nooks n crannies to hide behind once legislation reaches his desk. He has to act on it.

So if you want to call his alleged bluff Republicans, handle your business in the House and Senate passing a bill that the Country supports and put it in the hands of the President.

Just f'n do your job Congress and let the President do his. Remember Sen Rubio...you don't need the President to be in this process. Pass your sh*t out of the Congress and let the Executive Branch act on the legislation once it is on his desk and let the People decide if he wants to get immigration done or not.

You are wrong, Lil

Children cannot switch back and forth and the statute says nothing about punishing complainers ..... you have trusted the right wing media version of the new yet again, and yet again gotten the fringe version.

We need to Stop ILLEGAL immigration! They're not just doing jobs that Americans don't want. Do they pay taxes? Don't get me wrong most of these people work very hard, but are a drain on the system if they don't pay taxes, have healthcare coverage, learn the language or get paid wages that are in line with their American counterparts. Who's footing the bill for the education of their children and the infrastructure around them? We all know that the health care provided to uninsured illegals here in the states is being averaged into our hospital costs and our insurance premiums, which have PROPORTIONATELY increased along with illegal immigration over the last 20 years? These costs are also being passed along to Medicaid and Medicare, which means that not only are they increasing our insurance premiums, but that we're paying for them again with our tax dollars.

Our tax dollars and insurance premiums should not be used to recoup the cost of healthcare given to illegal immigrants, who shouldn't even be here in our country in the first place.

To the people that disagree, we should ask them should this: If a few illegal immigrants knocked on your door and demanded that you pay some medical bills for them, would you pay them?

Just look around and you'll see who's doing 90% of the residential renovations, construction and property maintenance jobs. That's certainly what we're seeing in the northeast. These are not just jobs that Americans don't want.

Unfortunately the hiring of cheap illegal labor causes a chain reaction. The contractors who hire cheap, uninsured, non-taxpaying, ILLEGAL aliens undercut the contractors who hire US Citizens or Legal immigrants. Even if the contractor wants to continue to employ US Citizens or Legal tax-paying immigrants, they end up replacing their Legal employees with illegals just to be able to get the work.

Let's get the good productive ILLEGAL Aliens into the system and paying federal and state income tax or get them out and not let more in unless they come in as Legal Immigrants. Make them apply for legal visas and or U.S. citizenship and if they don't, then get them out. If they get rejected get them out or give them one quick appeal and if they still get rejected, then get them out.

But let's send the bad ILLEGAL Aliens back to where they came in and let's put a stop to any more ILLEGAL Aliens getting in. When we finally bring back our troops from the Middle East, how about then using them to help better protect our borders from these intruders.

@ don97524

Read the story, then tell me I'm wrong...

Beckwith added that this requirement to ignore a basic truth of anatomy even extends to other students, as the policy states that referring to a transgendered student by their birth name or sex “should not be tolerated and can be grounds for student discipline.”

A transgender may choose boys locker room today, girls locker room tomorrow.

Which bathroom will Lil Michelle be choosing? At least a transgender kid has decided on a sexual identity, but is something that keeps Lil awake at night.

Well, we can now officially add entrenched paranoia to the growing syllabus of Republican Party Personality Disorders, along with narcissism and schizotypal personality! Anyone know of a good mental health professional ('shrink') for a rather large group?

Wouldn't it be More Productive if Our Elected Leaders Started Working Together as AMERICANS for AMERICANS and AMERICA, instead of just bickering, stalling and posturing for the next election as democrats and republicans! The American People have had it with this unproductive BS! The way that both parties having been operating for years just stinks! Neither party has really been looking out for the best interests of the US Citizens who elect them and who they're supposed to represent.

Both parties have sold out the bulk of the American citizens, who they're supposed to represent, by allowing the "out-sourcing" floodgates to open wider and wider without taking any sensible measures to stem the tide.

It shouldn't be all about Democrats or Republicans! It should be about Americans, especially our elected officials, doing the right thing for our country and its citizens. All the single-minded, left versus right, ideological one dimensional bull has got to go!

Both parties need to start working together and actually start doing something to fix the real problems in our country like "out-sourcing", illegal immigration, the out of control costs of health care insurance and our reliance on foreign fuel. If they don't start working together and actually start making progress by the next election, then American citizens should run a nation-wide campaign to vote out all incumbents regardless of party to send the message.

The ONLY REAL FIX is to Raise Revenue, by Bringing Back Jobs to US Citizens who Pay Income Tax.

Massive cutting just puts more people on unemployment, which just depresses the economy even further.

Returning private sector jobs to American Citizens will provide income tax revenue to OUR Government versus our government having to pay unemployment benefits to those who would be jobless instead. We need our elected officials to Start Protecting American Jobs and do whatever it takes to bring back the jobs they let go. We need leaders who will actually stand up for the American people.

The bottom line is that “Our Government” has to protect domestic industry and the jobs that those industries provide. If they do that, the rest will take care of itself.

We may have to pay a bit more for products made here in the USA by US citizens, but at least we'll still have jobs and a future for our children.

@ RedDevPS -- now I know what the PS stands for at the end of your avatar...

pre-schooler

seaskip -

Pigotry, just Porking around, loosen up

He knows, everyone knows. Idiots on the same team are still idiots.

Lil Mittchel -- You're not fooling anyone, mister.

The progressive/liberals do not care about our immigration laws. They only want the votes of immigrants. Until the idiot left in this country decides to follow our laws as written we will continue our downward trend. This is what happens when the inmates run the asylum folks. You voted for this mess so live with it. The biggest idiot in the asylum is our president, and his main goal is to destroy the right. This country will become just like most European countries when he succeeds with his goal. The problem is the fact that we have so many Americans who think that wil be a good thing.

TO: hardtostarboard who wrote:

"I'll bet the farm Obama plays the immigration issue like every other issue, a wedge to make republicans evil and democrats good..."

Whatever President Obama says, Republicans say the opposite.

Whatever President Obama's position is, Republicans are opposed.

President Obama is popular, Republicans are unpopular.

The GOP is their own driving "wedge" between the Republican Party, and everybody else.

It is so sickening to see our elected leaders tripping over each other and pandering for rewards and special treatment for immigration lawbreaking (including especially Obama for whom I voted in '08 but not in '12 because of his pledge for rewards for lawbreaking!). Americans want for their laws to be enforced. We cannot afford to reward lawbreaking both because (1) ILLEGALS are a catastrophic imposition upon American taxpayer services, and (2) rewarding lawbreaking only serves to incentivize exponentially more immigration lawbreaking (as Reagan's 1986 Amnesty clearly demonstrated)!

This week Reuters conducted a poll which revealed the truth-- well more than half Americans want for most or all ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONALS to be DEPORTED tout de suite!

A GOVERNMENT WHICH REFUSES TO ENFORCE ITS OWN LAWS IS INTOLERABLE!

@ Dont_carry_it_all

What are you talking about? Who am I trying to fool?

bubba-1946427 . . .

Anyboby else have a problem with this or just me?

That is the only statement that was decipherable in your entire post. Wanna try a re-write?

Lil

I challenged you on then garbage you posted about "switching" restrooms and punishing complainers.

Transgender children are real. Massachusetts is dealing with the issue in a responsible manner. You sit on the sidelines and bitch about issues you do not understand or appreciate.

Both parties are fighting for leverage on immigration. The repubs have a long road a head of them even if they provide amnesty.

Currently there are people who have been waiting in line for 15 plus years because they are doing it the right way, fix this. Border is open, fix this.

Once everyone in line is accounted for then start with amnesty for those who register themselves, just as they did at Ellis Island.

Setup Ellis Island II to move forward. Don't let this happen again.

I think you're right, Republicans. You should send the President an awesome immigration bill and see if he signs it. hee hee

I'm all for the transgender to feel at ease in school. I'm not OK with the other thousands of kids who don't feel at ease with a member of the opposite sex -- using the same locker room. Now, if they made seperate locker rooms for the transgender, fine. But my daughter cannot complain about sharing a locker room with a "girl in boys body"?

Just when you thought that the disingenuity could go no further....

"We don't think Obama wants immigration reform, he's just looking for a political issue"

That's hilarious, if it weren't so two-faced.

How convenient, Obama might reach too far for political reasons, so we'll block what he wants to do, for political reasons.

We all know this isn't going to work in the end. However cynical, it will come back to haunt the Republicans. The end game is the same: Reform passes and Obama is going to get credit, or if it doesn't, Republicans will be rightly blamed.

Poor Republicans, screwed either way.

May as well block it so those darkies don't get anything either. That's the way they've been governing for a long time now. No benefit for us, F.U.

Lil Michelle

In Massachusetts now, "trans-gender" school children can pick which bathroom/locker room they wish to use. A transgender may choose boys locker room today, girls locker room tomorrow. Imagine a 5th grade boy going into your daughter's bathroom....

Oh, and any child who complains about it will be punished...

www.mafamily.org/education/transgender-access-to-public-school-bathrooms-now-required-in-ma-by-commissioner/4287/

================

I'm not certain I understand the motive of the Commissioner. Seems like there is some secondary purpose here. Notwithstanding, I'm not even certain how enforceable it is. To me, it akin to saying that every time a child says they were sick, they simply got to go the nurses office and no matter how many times it happened, there was just no recourse. In the same way, it sound like the the child doesn't even really have identify one way or another. If they get caught, they just simply say that they 'feel' like that particular gender that day and then there is nothing else you can really do about it.

Like I started with...definitely seems like other motives are at play here. Sad when the children become the casualty for stuff like this.

If the law is about public places, I'm not certain what is the difference between say and airport, or a park and say a school? Who exactly enforces the law at these other places if a man or woman walks into a opposite sex bathroom?

TO: come on, really? who wrote:

"I think you're right, Republicans. You should send the President an awesome immigration bill and see if he signs it. hee hee"

The GOP knows the President will sign it, which is why Republicans will not do that.

What Republicans want is to seal the border, build a big impenetratable fence all along the border like the Great Wall of China, and the kick out all the illegals.

Why would Republicans "an awesome immigration bill" when Republicans don't want the illegals here?

Thx Allen, you definately make sense, and in a well written way!

American Girl-724855

Why would Republicans "an awesome immigration bill" when Republicans don't want the illegals here?

Trust me, they want them here. Lots of cheap, tax free labor to exploit. Probably even more than the Dems want them for the votes.

Oh, gawd. I come inside from clearing snow only to discover the GOP is afraid President Obama will "jilt" them on immigration?!! Why exactly they think that remains a mystery except to assume it's the result of the Paranoid gene getting into their DNA.

"Paranoia strikes deep . . . Into your life it will creep . . ."

This is what happens to your brain when you deny facts/science/math.

A few days ago the ReThuglicans were screaming about Pres. Obama leaking his own plan about immigration. Before that they were screaming that he wasn't leading. Now they think he doesn't REALLY want immigration reform???? when he RAN on it??? when he put it in the SOTU???

what they have some reason to fear is that he WILL pass immigration, and all those new Latino citizens, God Bless Them, will then vote Dem for the next 50 years.

Irrational ReThuglicans. Can't wait for 2014!

.

FORWARD! :-)

From the article above:

Yet all of the evidence so far – whether in his speeches and or his relations with Congress – suggests he and his administration clearly want a deal that he could sign into law.

Awww, isn't that cute.

Republicans are playing the "victim" card again.

Here's an idea. Why don't the Teapartypoopers work with the Democrats and the President instead of perpetuating the Chicken Little - Fear based talking points coming out of Rush's Pie hole.

Or, you could all hide under your bed in the fetal position sucking your thumbs until the next manufactured "crisis" comes along.

Salud

TO: hardtostarboard who wrote:

"... the republicans have the majority of public opinion on their side on most of the major issues facing the country..."

No, they don't.

KC_NC:

RE: your post #1.66

EXACTLY CORRECT! Plain simple language and straight to the factual and logical Point!

GOP fears Obama

That bit alone is priceless.

Obama represents a changing America, which the modern-day GOP cannot seem to come to grips with.

Sorry, it's not 1776 anymore.

Hey, Morgs74 who says (#1.48)

seaskip -

.......| Pigotry, just Porking around, loosen up

He knows, everyone knows. Idiots on the same team are still idiots.

Thanks for the compliment, Morgs74, & welcome to the team.

now I know what the PS stands for at the end of your avatar...

Lil - that would be moniker, as in screen name, user name, handle. An avatar is a graphical representation of a moniker, such as the porn star face shot used by you.

RedDev . . .

Fox thought it was a shot of Courtney Love and railed on LM a few months ago about it. That 162 IQ is in fine form again today, Lil . . .

seperate locker rooms

Did you miss the spelling class at your MENSA meeting?

There can be no workable immigration reform. Even if a majority (doubtful) of the 12+ million illegal immigrants agree to register for whatever program, discloses where-a-bouts, submits to background checks, pays back taxes, fines, learns English and goes to the back of the immigration line, there will still be millions of illegal immigrants in America.

And without declaring outright amnesty, how do you deal with the many family members of those who may qualify but cannot themselves qualify, or do not want to jump through all the hoops ?

There is only one rational way to reform immigration, make it a felony to hire illegal immigrants and go after employers in earnest. Create an atmosphere that encourages self deportation and let them come back in the legal way

RedDev - okay, I'm confused. Is anyone suggesting an immigration bill specifically for transgender individuals or is Lil Michelle - again - totally off course?

Number of retirees at the end of 2008 - 35,168,515

Number of retirees at the end of 2011 - 38,484,666

That's a gain of 3.3 million retirees after 3 long years - something that Roy Wilson has been careful NOT to report.

This whole issue is something that Roy Wilson (and the GOP) has been ignoring for 4 long years.

Mark Gongloff, 09/07/2012:

The number of Americans the BLS says are "not in the labor force" has risen by 2.7 million in the past year, to 88.9 million. That sounds bad -- nearly three million people dropping out of the job market.

But of that 88.9 million, just a little less than 7 million people who are out of the labor force say they still want a job. That is a horribly high number. But it has only grown by 488,000 in the past year. In other words, of the 2.7 million people who have dropped out of the labor force in the past year, about 2.2 million of them say they're not interested in finding a job anyway.

And what are the majority of these 2.2 million people who don't want a job doing instead? Retiring, it seems. About 1.6 million people who have dropped out of the labor force in the past year are 65 and over, according to the BLS.

We have a lot of people coming to America who take low pay jobs and work hard. They benefit their employers, and lower the cost of goods and services. But we are afraid that if we give them citizenship, they will change the voting pattern. If they have the vote, they might use it to improve their position in life.

WTF is wrong with America? Do we forget the idea that "democracy is good"? Too many have become fearful of democracy because "too many poor people will vote and that will change us."

Bali Bob

You are right, I can just picture President Obama saying:

"Thank you for electing me the president of the greatest country on earth. Now help me change it".

Pigotry -

welcome to the team.

Not a chance. I refuse to align myself with extremists on either side. They are designed to pit ourselves against each other, it just takes some people longer to see this for themselves.

What is it with this group of GOP paranoids that they constantly spin the issues?

There is no spin from the GOP on this. Obama's 'immigration' plan is nothing but blanket amnesty with no enforceable punishment. There is zero border enforcement, there is no enforcement of zero government assistance for five years which immigrants doing it the RIGHT way have to sign.

Seriously, if you're agreeing to obama's 'leaked immigration plan' then you either haven't read it, or you're an anti-american communist, or you're just a racist la raza aztlan freak.

Is anyone suggesting an immigration bill specifically for transgender individuals or is Lil Michelle - again - totally off course?

I think Lil Michelle is worried an illegal immigrant will start laughing at 'her' as 'she' tries to sit on a urinal whilst taking care of 'her' business.

There is no spin from the GOP on this. Obama's 'immigration' plan is nothing but blanket amnesty with no enforceable punishment.

So? Why is it to anyone's benefit to see illegal immigrants punished for being illegal immigrants. Yes, we need to deal with very small percentage of them who are actually criminals, but we already have laws to deal with criminals, and we are doing so, already.

If you are living peacefully in the US, paying all taxes you owe, then that's the sort of person we want.

Seriously, if you're agreeing to obama's 'leaked immigration plan' then you either haven't read it, or you're an anti-american communist, or you're just a racist la raza aztlan freak.

Such exciting words.

When will the GOPTP in Congress grow up? Most of the time I feel like I am back at school. Maybe we need to hire some cheerleaders to move them on course working for Americans.

Amy, just who is the leader of this country. It's supposed to be Obama. But I haven't seen any leadership come from him yet.

If your idea of a perfect leader is the sort of person who leads us into unnecessary wars by lying to us about what WMDs our enemies have, then yes, I can see why you think you haven't seen any leadership come from President Obama yet.

I wouldn't call dividing the country among the races, have and have nots, gun advocates and anti-gun advocates as being a leader.

Actually, as far as that's concerned, liberals are united with have-nots ; and liberals tend to be better off fiscally, so he's united the poor and the rich. Obama also won minority voters by a huge margin, so he has the majority of the US' races voting for him. Gun advocates and anti-gun advocates all agree on his proposals about reasonable check laws.

By your own stated criteria, Obama is a leader.

How did Obama's leaked immigration law do in the media last week? No well, based on comments I read.

It leaves the main problems of enforcement and border security in place.

Leaders...... lead

Organizers.... uh... organize.....

Barry has yet to lead this country in any way... he uses his "organizing" skills to mount hate against his opposition.... misleads his faithful... lies to any that will listen to him..... and with the main-stream media in his back pocket, is getting a FREE RIDE on everything he says or does.....

He just launched forces into NIGER...... where is the left on this issue?

The GOP's outlook on life seems to be a twisted version of the Golden Rule:

"Expect from others what you've done unto them."

So now there's an enemy behind every Bush.. er, bush.

Layton 3733410. I will say it slow for you since you are so educated you can't comprehend, if that's not to big a word for you to understand

The three partie,are to come together to agree on a package that will allow the people who have been breaking the Countries law to now not be criminals, but they cannot agree on a budget to help the legal citizen of this Country like they were voted into office to do so. The republicans if they have a bigger hand in this is President Obama going to pass it, has he kept his word on most things or does he want the glory.

upset-1557697 "Roy - If Obama's net positive on job growth is a failure in your mind, pray tell: How do you judge Dubya's net negative on the same issue?"

Get real. According to the official government Bureau of Labor Statistics, here are the REAL employment figures;

Average number of jobs in 2000 (Clinton's last year) = 136,891,000.

Average number of jobs in 2008 (Bush's last year) = 145,362,000, for a GAIN of 8,471,000 jobs.

Average number of jobs in 2012 (Obama's 4th year) = 142,459,000, for a LOSS of 2,903,000 jobs.

Here's the link to the official BLS site to verify;

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat01.pdf

The truth hurts when facts don't agree with your preconceived notions, doesn't it?

"Average number of jobs in 2008 (Bush's last year) = 145,362,000, for a GAIN of 8,471,000 jobs."

BS. When Bush left office we were LOSING over 750,000 jobs per month.

EEngineer "Number of retirees at the end of 2008 - 35,168,515...Number of retirees at the end of 2011 - 38,484,666...That's a gain of 3.3 million retirees after 3 long years - something that Roy Wilson has been careful NOT to report."

How convenient to report only those that LEFT the labor force, and ignore the number that have ENTERED the labor force.

In 2008, 66% of the population (154,287,000 workers) were in the labor force, and based on the 2012 population, at 66% we would have 160,567,000 workers, for a GAIN of more than 6 million.

Actually, the figure of additional people entering the 'working age group' is apparently over 9 million, because the 6 million+ gain is AFTER having removed your 3.3 million retirees.

By the way - Is that figure of 3.3 million the total number that retired under Obama, or is it net of those former retirees that have passed away?

bubba-1946427 . .

I wasn't being mean I seriously can't understand what your first post or your second one are about. If you read my post above and followed the link, you'll see that I'm all for working together to get those that are in the process of citizenship finished up. Right now, the backlog is so huge and becomes bigger by the day and it is the government's fault and Congress needs to address the issue. Waiting 20 years to get a green card??? ridiculous!

Charlie-1915998 ""Average number of jobs in 2008 (Bush's last year) = 145,362,000, for a GAIN of 8,471,000 jobs."...............BS. When Bush left office we were LOSING over 750,000 jobs per month."

Those losses were included in the average employment figures for Bush in 2008.

If you don't like the FACTS reported by the government Bureau of Labor Statistics, take your argument up with the Obama Administration - they are the ones that issue the official data.

Here's another tidbit of information that will no doubt distress you - The economy under Bush (GDP) improved by 47%, an average of nearly 6% per year.

lol

FORMS ARE GOING FAST- SIGN UP TODAY!
Becoming Illegal (Actual letter from an Iowa resident sent to his senator,)
The Honorable Tom Harkin
731 Hart Senate Office Building
Phone (202) 224 3254
Washington DC , 20510

Dear Senator Harkin,

As a native Iowan and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien and they referred me to you.

My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to illegal alien stems from the bill which was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for only three of the last five years. I know a good deal when I see one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone figures it out.

Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay taxes every year so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and my family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and 2005.

Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost $10,000 a year.

Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her law school applications, as well as 'in-state' tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United States for my son.

Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance premiums. This is very important to me, given that I still have college age children driving my car.

If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance

Your Loyal Constituent, (hoping to reach 'illegal alien' status rather than just a bonafide citizen of the USA )
Donald Ruppert
Burlington , IA
Get your Forms (NOW)!!
Call your Internal Revenue Service at 1-800-289-1040

Joe in Albany

Republican's (Jack-off?) are prudent to be wary of the snake oil salesman in the Oval Office.

Never turn your back to someone who is likely to stick a big, sharp knife in you in a Chicago minute.

Amazing. So the answer is to simply oppose everything the President suggests, other Congresional Members request and the American People demand to keep from appearing, what? weak? Is that it? So in other words you are willing to trash the economy and alienate millions of voters to prove you're strong...Let me know in November of 2014 how that works out for you.

If I may plead with you, please excuse ROY WILSON as he is just a 'tad' challanged by mathmatics and facts! In his post #1.9, third paragraph, he blames the media for hiding and/or not reporting the numbers on unemploymet in the U.S. If he would only tune in to the news or any newspaper he will find that the OFFICIAL unemployment and jobs numbers are published VERY PROMINATLY by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, on a monthly basis, and create quite a mountain of speculation and discussion by both major political parties, most major news outlets, and particularly Wall Street Gurus each and every day for the balance of each month. WAKE UP ROY and taste REALITY!

Sounds reasonable to me that the Repubs fear that Obama will be the cause of their failure to bring immigrants on board. After all, it couldn't possibly be their own doing. Nothing is their own doing, unless it is something that looks good.

Pigotry

The point is that there is a bipartisan support to the proposed immigration reform

The day before yesterday, on this news site, there was an article that said the majority of the American people oppose amnesty for millions of illegal aliens here in the US.

Perhaps the elected representatives decided to heed what the people who elected them actually think about it.

The immigration system isn't broke... it is saturated... it is full... because we went overboard in allowing tyrants and murdering dictators to dump their unskilled and uneducated refugees off on us along with every terrified citizen of every country involved in a conflict or a war who wanted to pick up and run for the border... OUR border.

We should have held open slots for the people who could have contributed skills and educational value to the US, and for the immediate and extended families of immigrants already here and those married to US citizens.

We can't be the lifeboat for every Titanic that's sinking around the world; because every time we drag their drowing people into the lifeboat, they just drill more holes in their ship and bring more lost souls on board.

These countries need to be made to deal with their own citizens. Either care for them or watch them die the way the US is doing.

scrambolo "If I may plead with you, please excuse ROY WILSON as he is just a 'tad' challanged by mathmatics and facts! In his post #1.9, third paragraph, he blames the media for hiding and/or not reporting the numbers on unemploymet in the U.S. If he would only tune in to the news or any newspaper he will find that the OFFICIAL unemployment and jobs numbers are published VERY PROMINATLY by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, on a monthly basis"

My math is fine, but when was the last time that the media reported that the average number of people working in 2012 was about 3 million fewer than in 2008?

By the way - since you seem to be just a 'tad' challenged by spelling, might I suggest that you use spell check?

I gave you the link to prove my figures were correct, but you would never know that the average number of people working in Obama's 4th year was 3 million less than in Bush's last year from the 'rhetoric' that the media blindly posts on Obama's behalf.

Man, this is getting more serious by the HOUR. These republicans are so hell bent on destroying President Obama they are becoming more paranoid of him by the HOUR! These republicans in congress are eating their own, and imploding at the same time!!!!

GOOD!!

GuyLittle

#1.95 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:49 PM CST

The ignorance of some of you is absolutely, overwhelmingly, pathetic!!!

JH-479998

The progressive/liberals do not care about our immigration laws. They only want the votes of immigrants.

#1.50 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:05 PM CST

LOL..... Every time I read a comment like this I think of Gov Bobby Jindal, R-LA, and his comment about the republican party as the "STUPID PARTY."

Come on man, please, what an ignorant statement you've made. After the election last year, remember, when Romney lost, you and the republicans said, 'WE DIDN'T GET ENOUGH OF THE HISPANIC VOTE," than you proceeded to promenade Rubio and a few other Hispanic republicans out front of your party.

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU CALL THAT??!!!

President Obama and the democratic party involved ALL Americans in their election, something of a "Rainbow Coalition," while you, Romney and most of the republican party pandered to rich white Americans and hillbillies who you fooled into thinking you would help them. How hard is that for you to see and understand?

This is nothing more than another Republican/Tea Party excuse to do NOTHING.......

After the American people vote these obstructionist jerks out of office in 2014 the country will finally begin to move forward into the 21st century and leave these right wing ideologues behind.

Most right wing fools are so stupid they don't even see that the more they resist change the more politically irrelevant they become....... The Patience of the American public is growing very thin.

It's just political theatre, and all the participants are playing their choreographed parts. The Republican party can just hand Democrats a win on immigration. If something passes, they need to get credit for it. It has to be "The Rubio Plan" to be of any value to them. Or else, if they find they cannot support a plan because they aren't getting enough credit to overcome the opposition of the Tea Party base, then they need to blame that failure on Democrats and on President Obama.

That they are playing this game only proves that they have no interest in actual immigration reform. They don't want it, and are only pursuing it out of political necessity. Which is fine, if it's the only way to get the modern Republican party to actually do something positive for the country for a change.

Should the repubs be fearful of Obama? Of course they should. They will be fearful until they learn to stand up for their beliefs. And that is the jist of the problem. The real conservative repubs know what they believe and aren't afraid to stand up for them. The problem is in finding real conservative repubs running for office.

Yo liberaos ya'll need to pony up an extra $35,000 per year (each) so YOU can sponsor these illegal aliens...if YOU want them here so bad, then YOU pay for them. To ask a majority of American citizens who already pay enough in taxes, already take care of a bunch of entitlement parasites, and are ready to be hit with Owebama Care which no one wanted but the elite in Congress!! And to add another 11+million to the tab is reckless and un-American!!

Just answer who is going to pay for these folks?? Those with no skills, no education, no speaka english, and not sure if they are Mexican criminals, have tuberculosis, or other diseases...the risk should all be on those that want them here so bad. It isn't worth the buying of votes for that now is it...double standard convenience...liberals. You want what you want as long as everyone else foots the bill. Shame on you. Just to keep the freebies coming you would ruin this once great nation. Brainwashed you all are!! The Media owns you democrat automatons.

Conservatives: Severely paranoid

I learned about this many years ago in Psychology 101. It's called "transference". It's when you accuse others of having the faults that you yourself possess. I suspect it's a unconscious attempt to justify actions that you are ashamed of by deluding yourself into thinking that everyone does them and, consequently, you are normal. In the present case, Republicans are only concerned with gaining political advantage, as opposed to doing what is morally correct or acting in the best interests of the country. Therefore they assume that President Obama is similarly motivated.

Wow, 108 posts about ship building in Maine. How about instead of building ships for the Navy how about building some yachts for the millionaires in Brazil and the rest of the world that is claiming the back log for new yachts is to long? The American Companies will survive by changing ways just as the auto industry has changed. Change or die!

p.s. It takes money to train them while not working, money to cure their illnesses, money to house and feed them, take care of them if they get injured, have anchor babies, or fall ill or worse.

WHO PAYS FOR THIS? WE ARE BROKE AND THE HOUSE OF CARDS IS ALREADY FRAGILE AND STORMS ARE ON THE HORIZON!! Brace yourself people you ain't seen nothing yet this lesson will hurt and it will hurt the poor and middle class the most. The rich got theirs in the stimulus! Did YOU??? You got yours alright, right where it hurts the most!!

Obama's idea as well as the Libs out there of immigration "reform" is to give in to Hispanics for their votes, weather they are here illegally or not. Not enforce any immigration laws cause that would piss them off (as in suing Arizona) siding with Calderon when he was Prez of Mexico instead of Americans, Amesty for all the illegals here and telling Repubs that if they want votes, they need to give in!! WHAT AN ASSSS! Wait til America becomes mostly Hispanic, yes, there are alot of great Hispanic people here, BUT, there are WAY too many illeegals here as well, and our quality of life goes totally downhill because of all the gangs, crime, low education, blight, raping of social services if any are still left. Just wait. We can't take in any more of a country's uneducated and poor people! It is taking it's toll and will get worse!

someotherguy...MUST be from some other world. When the Dems control everything if 2014 and they will as a result from all this manipulation taking place now (if we make it that far) you will see this country cascade into something no one will recognize, and the Republicans with ALL their faults are the only ones between Owebama and the largest blank check with no credit limit the world has ever seen. I

f we haven't failed as a nation already look out in 2014 it will be the turbo boost on the reckless spending that pushes our nations creditors to the edge and force a currency change or come take what is owed to them. its coming and its bad. We have little to no exports and import all of our hard goods. We only have food to export and weather could change that in a heart beat.

Our largest automakers have completely failed this nation and their business and would not be here if not for you and I baling them out...without our approval. We should have let them fail...all of those corrupt banks, wall street...the pain would be much less than it will be in the future. There is no turning back we had a chance to turn this nation around and now there is little hope unless 50% of nation gets it by tomorrow and more and more are falling to this manipulation the President dishes out regularly!

JediUtahn- hear! hear!

All the libs are concerned with is spending us further into the hole. They don't get it that it's going to take money to sponsor all these illegals that should otherwise have been thrown out a long time ago. It's not too late either!

Gwaddamn! Talk about setting the dining table with last nights "chamber pots". The republicans are caught. They don't want to pass any kind of comprehensive immigration reform. Their people will kill 'em. They don't, the Hispanics will kill 'em. The President's plan has been leaked. It's a good one. What to do? What to do? Oh!, Oh!, lez do a half assed plan that the democrats will never go along with, and the Hispanics will hate, then lie like hell about the intent of the sh^t in It. Thata way, we can tell the stupid Hispanics we tried but the President was lying to 'em. Proof is; he wouldn't go along with us, then we'll not go along with His plan, and then, aye gwad, no plan will get passed. Republicans! Sons-ah-bitches ain't gonna govern. Ain't why they are there.

my favorite part in the "Immigration Argument" has to do with the fact that the 3 major illegal crossing states are Texas, New Mexico and Arizona and all 3 are firmly under Republican control. Combined with the fact that during Bush's 8 years as President he never addressed the problem despite him being from Texas and a former Governor in the state and when his daddy was VP it was when Reagan gave amnesty to the illegals as well. And yet the Democrats and specifically a black man named Obama who is blamed for the problems with all these illegals. Must be they all come here to work as community organizers for employment and they are not working jobs at company's owned by Republican donors, huh? That last part is sarcasm (for those who voted for Romney-- since they might not be smart enough to figure it out.).

If Republicans really believe that Obama's push for immigration form is not sincere they have played a cynical and fraudulent game of politics so long that they are incapable of accepting sincerity in anyone else. Why shouldn't Obama want to enact an immigration bill that would give his party millions of new voters? It sounds to me like Republicans are saying these things in an attempt to lay part of the blame on the President if the legislation fails because they are forced to vote against reform by their wealthy PACs and insane Tea Party activists. Republican voters have been cheated by their representatives. Republican office holders are supposed to be better liars than what we are seeing.

A recurring fear has colored Republicans’ attitude...: President Barack Obama has no actual interest in reaching a deal, and is instead pursuing the issue to exacerbate the GOP’s problems with Hispanic voters.

Flat out. The GOP is once again using its 'bait and switch blame' tactic to cloud the debate and cover up its own deficiencies on this policy. The GOP wants a fence and deportation (except for those working for their campaign donor buddies). That's it in a nutshell. The GOP is not operating as an honest broker in this policy debate.

Bottom line, Obama doesn't want to address immigration because he doesn't want to lose his support base. He knows most americans are against illegal immigration, but the hispanic vote is just too good to pass up. This is why we see hypocrisy in the President. He is spending his days catering to a minority voter population, rather than upholding US laws. Then he will say in a different circumstance, such as in gun control, that he has the right to enforce US laws in this instance. Such hypocrisy! He can't choose which laws he wants to follow and which ones he doesn't. For all you democrats that makes him a DICTATOR.

In modern usage, the term "dictator" is generally used to describe a leader who holds and/or abuses an extraordinary amount of personal power, especially the power to make laws without effective restraint by a legislative assembly.

Dictatorships are often characterised by some of the following traits: suspension of elections and of civil liberties; proclamation of a state of emergency; rule by decree;

repression of political opponents without abiding by rule of law procedures;

these include single-party state, and cult of personality.

No one can take it anymore. This President flip-flops constantly. He is an unstable President.

To Fiesty and the rest of the Lib-Lemmings: if you aren't seriously embarassed by having this scarmbolo character spout such preposterous crap for your cause....well, you sure oughta be!

Here is a serious question that I know someone can answer, do we not have current immigration laws? I thought so, sorry just answering the questions as I go myself.

I'm sorry that the hispanic population decided to break the law and enter the U.S. illegally, not my problem, we have a process, but I'm sorry everyone who came to this country legally had to do it, get in line.

Once you have gained you citizenship, I'll shake your hand and give a pat on the back and welcome you aboard to tax nation U.S. of A.

While I support neither party in any endeavor as both are just blatantly corrupt and care little for our great country. As plainly obvious as the last 20 years have been.

But since when did it become ok to promise legislation to garner votes for laws we already have in place? So no one see's a problem with that? So no one see's a problem buying votes? So what will you do when the president issues an executive order for new legislation? It just kills me that you all type how you love this country and blah, blah, blah, but have no regard for the constitution and laws in place already.

I'm sorry but I also don't know how more like 20 million illegal immigrants is going to help this country? How is that going to bolster an already high unemployment rate? I'm sorry but we don't live in a perfect world and sacrifices need to be made somewhere, I'd prefer to take care of our taxpaying citizens who help pay for things like roads, healthcare, paying federal workers salaries, you know those little things. Now some might say, those new illegals will be paying taxes? Really with what jobs? Are we going to create new jobs just for the mexican's now? How about we make special laws for the asians, blacks, or religious groups, like jews and muslims too?

Never mind I guess you all just keep arguing about who's right and how great your party is, while they just pass whatever laws they want regardless of what you think.

How come none of the democrats are pushing for those who are waiting outside the country? Where is their voice? Afterall, they aren't living off the taxpayers. They are the ones who are abiding by our laws.

Why doesn't someone in the Democratic Party speak out for them? You know the reason? Because illegal immigrants cast votes. I know you don't want to believe it, but it is true. The ones waiting outside the country can't fake a citizenship to vote, but the illegals can.

That is why Obama doesn't want to let this go. He needs their support.

For pete's sake...what a mess we are in. Republicans RIGHTLY want Obama to be a one-termer, or for his policies to fail. Democrats RIGHTLY want Republicans to fail so that they might be able to enact their own vision for America. None of this is new. It's the nature of politics and always has been. I wish the left would stop complaining about the right wanting them to fail about as much as I would like the right to stop whining about Obama wanting to destroy them. Of COURSE he wants to destroy them. It's freaking politics!

But the reason we are in such a mess is because most people take all this too seriously. They allow this game to overshadow the larger and more important questions about what is good, or bad, public policy. For instance, when Mr. Obama was merely a candidate for president he asserted that Mr. Bush was IMMORAL for having had $200 bn deficits. Mr. Obama's supporters went wild in agreement. Except that now, deficits of four to five times as much are now claimed by Mr. Obama and those very same supporters not just to be moral, but to be wise. These people have allowed their cult of personality to color their comprehension of what is happening.

What a damned shame it all is. So, in the case of immigration it is, I think, manifestly true that Mr. Obama wants no solution and prefers to revel in the conflict. Republicans would be wise to not negotiate with the president--for several reasons too. First, Mr. Obama is of low character. He's not an honest or honorable man. Dealing with a liar or cheat, when you know it to be the case, makes you a fool. So Republicans should not deal with Mr. Obama.

Second, voters need to deal with the consequences of their votes. Roy Wilson is ABSOLUTELY correct about the stats, but the left continues to delude themselves into thinking he's a liar. Your taxes just went up. Obamacare is already failing, just as it is beginning to sadly take effect. Government spending hasn't propelled our economy towards prosperity. We, as a people, refuse to deal with reality, preferring instead to steal trillions of dollars from our unborn heirs so that we can continue to live beyond our means today. It's about time we stop this fantasy before it fully ruins the USA.

Its not 11 million, its 40 million, that coming from the united nations census of Mexico and latin America. Thats how many are missing from there, but their families arent worried, they know where they went. Right here in the good ole US of A. If we allow these 40 million to become citizens the democrats will have a clear numerical advantage from now on. NO AMNESTY, NOT NOW NOT EVER. PASS IT ON.

For instance, when Mr. Obama was merely a candidate for president he asserted that Mr. Bush was IMMORAL for having had $200 bn deficits. Mr. Obama's supporters went wild in agreement. Except that now, deficits of four to five times as much are now claimed by Mr. Obama and those very same supporters not just to be moral, but to be wise. These people have allowed their cult of personality to color their comprehension of what is happening.

Rich: That's the problem with you RWNJ's, you lie and distort every issue to make a point. Bush's 200 bn deficits? Bush inherited a 5.7 trillion debt and if you accept republican twisting ended with a 10.9 deficit at the end of 2008. or 5.2 trillion. That's an average in deficit spending of 650 billion each and every year. Hardly your implication that 200 bn was a high for him, Bush downplayed his spending by funding his wars, "off the books".

Even that is lowballing the true number. Anyone with any knowledge of how our government functions know the 2009 budget was passed by Bush in 2008 before Obama was even elected with a deficit of 1.2 trillion. Those that attribute massive increased spending by Obama ignore the fact revenues dropped almost 500 billion a year in 2008 during the great meltdown. The deficit would have been close to 1 trillion had we done nothing but spent at the same level we did in 2007 and before. And you're right on one thing. Bush was immoral with his irresponsible spending on top of massive tax cuts causing massive deficits even though the economy was strong. A responsible president pays for what he implements when the economy is strong so that we can afford stimulus when it's not.

The Democrats are just as screwed up as the Republicans. I still cannot understand why all of you people blindly follow political parties that are directly responsible, by not compromising on anything, for the state of our great nation. And please, President Bush has been on his ranch for the past 5 years, this is not his fault. It is the fault of the non-working garbage on the hill. How many hours a week do any of you work to make ends meet? How many days do they work and what do they accomplish to have the taxpayers paying them triple and quadrople what any of you make a year? There is a problem with that equation when they are looking to shut down this country again. After the sequestration, there will be an end to the continuing resolution garbage. How long has it been since the government passed a budget? Years!!!!

And on a last note, Iraq had WMDs and did not get rid of all the evidence. I personally saw it and the evidence of more. I cannot help the fact that instead of being honest to the people, they continue to hide the proof to try and trash President Bush. They had them, we found them, someone came in and collected the evidence. You can only believe what the government and media tell you 5% of the time and that is giving them credit.

Larry are you too ignorant to say that Odumbo has screwed up, or would you believe him if he said the moon was made of cheese. Odumbo is the worst fiscal president in the history of this country by far, it's not even a close second.

Larry are you too ignorant to say that Odumbo has screwed up, or would you believe him if he said the moon was made of cheese. Odumbo is the worst fiscal president in the history of this country by far, it's not even a close second.

All I do is post easily verifiable facts using exact dates and dollars to prove what I say and all you can do is make mindless rants. A yapping dog makes more sense. When you get out of 3rd grade and check the facts I posted you'll understand.

Hispanics, other than Cubans, don't trust the Republicans.

Larry, I have set "Barry" to Ignore This Author.

Face It: The republicanCrimeCartel is REALLY the republicanCrackedCartel. Prez O Is smart and you self Entitled republican Morons are Just Plain * S T U P I D * and TOTALLY UNDISCIPLINED. Look, with your previous PartyPosterDunce, KingGeorge The Vacuum Brained who really couldn't sniff osama bin laden's flatulence..Duuhh Where'd He Go George? Where'd He Go??????? you $4.50P/G Me firsts gave up with bin laden and his Chief alqueerda geeks and Instead had a party and Devoured the Famous "Baghdad Cash Plane' loaded with $12BILLION American Currency and delivered to your Give away contract good ole' boys waiting at the airport; 36 hours later- Where's the Taxpayers $12Billion??? But what about al qaida? They were busy having congress with little boys, and republican congress was busy having fun with their money stealing toys. Prez O was smart enough to let bin laden think that he was one of you Dummies with an IQ equal to a healthy waist size. So what happened?? Prez O played his "I'm Embarassed 'cause We can't trackdown bin laden" Poker Face for Camel Lips to Smug Up Over. Obama Sucked in osama and With Our Wonderful Navy Seals?.. WHACK!! NO more osama bin laden; and so is the same ongoing fate of his chief perverts in al queerda. You "Me first!!, let's have a party repuboquacks haven't the intelligence to even understand Prez O's ongoing strategies. Look at your "chief party planner, karl rove; republicanCrimeCartel meltdown queen during the presidential election. He carried on eating his own party members on national TV about the money he lost because of the Rommel/Eddie Munster defeat. Face it: As long as you repuboquacks can keep fooling america's Moronic males, You're still in business, BUT You Can't Fool All of The People All Of The Time.....

rich: What you don't understand is that the only argument the dems have is to complain about repubs. There's are reason why dems don't scream from the mountain tops what a great job Obama and the dem leadership has done. It's because their policies don't work. The aren't working now and they've never worked at any time in the history of the world. So, even though Obama has gotten everything he's sought, since we all know the economy is still in the tank and no one can point to one Obama policy that has actually helped the economy, they are left with screaming "obstructionist" about the repubs. If the repubs had half a brain they'd scream "damn right! We are doing everything we can to prevent Obama and the dems from destroying the country!" But, alas, too many of them want to be liked by NBC, CBS and ABC.

You democrats are really stupid!!!!!!! None of you people have a brain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am not Republican either but, I think getting 11 million illegal immigrants to become US Citizens is going to @!$%# Americans big time... Even Mexican Americans and Latino Americans disagree having 11 million illegal immigrants become US Citizens because they dont follow the law and a lot of them are already criminals before coming to the US....

Most of the Obama Hispanic votes are illegal anyway....What else is new ? I know I know Bla Bla Bush Teabaggers Romney Republicans Whatever..... Tinfoil hats bla bla we have heard it all before....Oh wait ...The Race card ! Surprise surprise !

Look ....You guys need to stop all this crap.....Think in practical terms....11 million illegal immigrants...What do you do?...There really isn't a bus big enough......So how much would this rooting out of the illegal immigrants cost?...Just dumb and impractical to think that we could flip a switch and magically 11 million people will be deported......So...A little off topic but bare with me........Economists on both sides of the aisle agree that revenue is required to fix the deficit problem.....So......This is what I was understanding Obama wanted....Build the wall (keep future illegal immigration on a leash) and provide a path to citizenship for the illegals already here and create (based on Reagan's amnesty of 85% of illegals became US citizens) almost 10 million more tax payers....Wow....Sounds terrible....You cons are just so stupid....

Ster2

OMFG........False....Dishonest......Ignorant....Dishonest.....Misleading...etc....You get the point. 100% false...Voter registration is required to vote.....How do you register now a days without an SS number?....The world is dumber for your comment that has zero factual backing.....Good luck in your perception of reality...

Yea, lets see you come here to Las Vegas and see if you can vote without proving you're eligible, people can shovel all the BS they want but the bottom line is They the Mexicans are not going to be fooled into casting their vote for a RACIST party, they know where the GOP stands " IF YOU"RE NOT WHITE YOU"RE NOT RIGHT" look what happened with Cain did he really think he was excepted as one of them while behind his back they were calling him their Token Nigg_r. It would be the same for the Mexicans the GOP would be calling them WETBACKS or something worst.

Roy Wilson,

Nice try with your starting point. It is pretty much well accepted by people on both sides of the aisle that the true bottoming out of the housing criss was June 2009. Thus it is disingenuous to take numbers from prior to the economy bottoming out from a crisis that happened before Obama was in office (or are we now blaming Obama for the housing crash as well?).

Thus, if you look at the labor stats put out by the BLS comparing June 2009 to January 2013, here's what you get:

Number of civilian workforce employed, June 2009: 140, 196, 000
Number of civilian workforce employed, January 2013: 143, 322, 000

Thus, that would be a net gain of over 3,000,000 jobs during Obama's presidency thus far.

tdj1

"11 million illegal immigrants become US Citizens because they dont follow the law and a lot of them are already criminals before coming to the US...."

Please fact check this statement.......All my info says nothing of the sort........and in fact says the oppisite....That very few are criminals......Reagan Amnesty is proof.....

Roy Wilson,

BTW, what I reported up there is the household data survey numbers. If you want the establishment survey numbers, which is what you appear to be using, you get roughly the same net gain of jobs over that time period:

Number of total nonfarm workers employed, June 2009: 131,962,000
Number of total nonfarm workers employed, January 2013: 134, 842, 000

Obama administration does not enforce the current laws on immigration what make me think that they will enforce new immigration laws.

Time to learn Spanish America!

The paranoid GOP is worried the dems are going to steal their play book? Let's see ...They baited every portion of the gun saga then used everything as political ammo..hmmm The paranoid delusional party over country is so psychopathically yesterday. Hit the road Jack!

Roy Wilson loves his numbers... the way he interprets them.

From the link he quotes you can gather more. When Obama took office, the economy was failing badly. Let's just look at Bush's last 3 months in office:

...Bush's last three months. Between October and November, 597,000 jobs were lost; between November and December, 681,000 were lost; and between December and January, 741,000 were lost.

There you have it - 2 million jobs lost in just 3 months. Do you think that process would reverse itself overnight? It didn't. Using the very same link that Roy provided, you can see that from 2008 to 2009 a further 6 million jobs were lost. Ah, but that is obviously Obama's fault, isn't it? After all, he was president when it happened and all the ills of the previous president disappear overnight when a new president is elected.

If you are trying to convince people that the Republican years from 2000 to 2008 were somehow good for this country, you are fighting a lost cause. You know it isn't true and, more importantly, American voters know it.

And on a last note, Iraq had WMDs and did not get rid of all the evidence. I personally saw it and the evidence of more.

I call BS. If there was any, repeat ANY, evidence of WMD's in Iraq then the Republicans would be shouting it from the roof tops. We have been searching for 10 years and the evidence just isn't there.

And that makes you, sir, a LIAR!

The housing mortgage bubble had much to do with the crash, and that was a liberal congressional initiative. If you liberals are going to point fingers then man up and take some responsibility.

Obama has no intentions of signing an immigration bill its just an issue to try to bash republicans. The man never goes out of campaign mode. If he wanted to lead he would have done so when he promised he would in his first term, or even second, when he had all 3 branches.

His own ICE agents are suing him now because he won't let them do their job. You think thats the actions of a man that really wants reform? Hardly.

Morgs74, #1.80 - I agree, very smart ( "DESIGNED TO PIT OURSELVES AGAINST EACH OTHER" ) And its working !!!

Mexico's Communists

Hey Dumb.....Mexico has a democratically elected President........Trying to understand when that became part of communism...

Siobhan27 "Roy Wilson, Nice try with your starting point."

I used the starting point of when Obama took office, but you want the starting point to be the end of the recession? (Sort of like you 'Blame Bush' for anything that happened 'on his watch' despite the Democrats controlling Congress and fighting against him at every turn).

And you accuse ME of cherry picking a starting date?

Thanks for my morning laugh.

EEngineer "Roy Wilson loves his numbers... the way he interprets them."

No 'interpretation' required - I just reported the actual numbers reported by the Obama Administration.

By the way - Those 2 million jobs lost at the end of 2008 were allocated to Bush, not Obama. Jobs lost under Obama were only counted for months when he was in office. Here are the figures again;

According to the official government Bureau of Labor Statistics, here are the REAL employment figures;

Average number of jobs in 2000 (Clinton's last year) = 136,891,000.

Average number of jobs in 2008 (Bush's last year) = 145,362,000, for a GAIN of 8,471,000 jobs.

Average number of jobs in 2012 (Obama's 4th year) = 142,459,000, for a LOSS of 2,903,000 jobs.

Here's the link to the official BLS site to verify;

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat01.pdf

"I don't believe President Obama wants an immigration bill to pass, instead I think he wants a political issue,"

BINGO!!!! DING, DING, DING, WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!

This is the essence of Barrack Hussein. He has no ability at governance, only division by politics.

This president has no intention of helping America. His mission is to promise utopia and then deliver despair. His record speaks for itself.

In 2008 our National Debt was $9.5 trillion, today it is $16.6 trillion, an increase of $7 trillion. In 4 years it is projected to be $22.6 trillion. This amounts to an increase of $13 trillion, or over twice what all the preceding presidents have created.

We have more people on food stamps and disability than ever in our history. Our streets are rampant with crime, violence, drugs and murders. Racism has not only increased under barrack Hussein, it is promoted by him and the complicit media. Our great Republic is more divided than I can remember.

It has been 1,369 days since the Democrats have passed a budget. Only in the convoluted mind of a Liberal/Progressive can the biggest economy in the history of mankind run without a blueprint. No other business, and yes the government IS a business, could get away with this. It is the biggest service sector business in history. It even has the luxury of not having to create a profit, all it has to do is be balanced. We were promised a deficit reduction of one-half in the first term, instead we have massive deficits projected as far as the eye can see.

The "jobs" created so far are pathetic. Accepting the numbers of 5 million jobs created by the $863 billion "$timulu$, each job cost us almost $175,000! The more embarrassing aspect is the TYPES of jobs being created.

Although six in 10 jobs lost during the Great Recession paid mid-level wages, the majority of new jobs created in the recovery -- positions such as store clerks, laborers and home healthcare aides -- pay much less, according to a study by the National Employment Law Project.

The study covered jobs created from the first quarter of 2010 through the first quarter of 2012.

Lower-paying jobs, with median hourly wages from $7.69 to $13.83, accounted for just 21% of the job losses during the recession. But they've made up about 58% of the job growth from the end of the recession in late 2009 through early 2012.

Those jobs have been concentrated in three industries: food services, retail and employment services, such as office clerks and customer service representatives, the study found.

In contrast, mid-wage occupations with median hourly wages from $13.84 to $21.13 -- jobs such as construction workers, real estate brokers, and data entry clerks -- have accounted for just 22% of the new jobs in the recovery after making up 60% of the job losses in the recession.

So, we have lost 60% good wage and benefit jobs and replaced them with 58% of poverty level jobs and we STILL have over 23 million Americans under/unemployed. It's obvious that Barrack Husseins goal of taking the American people from a middle class society to a poverty class society dependent on more and more government.

This is not by mistake, this is by design!

Barrack Hussein is a thoroughgoing statist, perhaps the worst in history. And with Wilson, FDR and LBJ he is in some serious competition.

Politics is about man's relationship to the state. That relationship, to be healthy, should be minimal. This president has taken the government to new heights, a very unhealthy and dangerous height. His obsession with unimportant issues such as gay rights, contraception and nationalizing industries has created the fiscal Armageddon we find ourselves in.

Class warfare has been Barrack Husseins goal since his candidacy. "If you've got a business — you didn't build that--somebody else made that happen", is the most frightening statement by any president ever. Even though Elizabeth Warren was the author of this nonsense, Barrack Hussein has not only embraced it, he actually believes it.

His theory of entrepreneurship is that behind every successful businessman, there is a successful government. Even though our nations greatest innovators and entrepreneurs had no help from government, as a statist he will try to take credit for it all. This is a warrant for socialization of the products of success. Behind its faux sophistication is the typical Ivy League faculty-lounge disdain for business. If anyone earns more than his coveted tenured professor comrades they must have done so by some deceptive means.

Behind his smiley face we're-all-in-it-together façade is a very ominous demand: You owe us. Us being the brilliant minds in the pantheon of government. These are the same people who have never created a business or driven commerce to any degree but they have read a few books or perhaps written a book. Some of our greatest self made men exemplified by Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln and Steve Jobs Barrack Hussein wants to substitute the illusion of some guy who happened to get lucky while not paying his "fair share" of taxes so he can redistribute it better than their own philanthropy would allow.

The hallmark of the entrepreneur of extraordinary accomplishment isn't simply working hard as he admonished in his famous bluster in Virginia. "I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there."

Some of us may work as hard as Steve Jobs but few of us are as single-minded, risk-taking, shrewd or as visionary. Millions of us can work twelve hour days for years yet never come up with the idea for the iPad, Mac computer or an iPhone. Let alone successfully manufacture and market it.

Statists discreetly tend to devalue human creativity. The statist truly believes that Steve Jobs couldn't get to work every day without roads or drive safely on those roads without a well-regulated system of driver's licenses. So in the convoluted mind of Barrack Hussein the DMV practically built Apple! It has nothing to do with the massive amount of commerce Apple creates with its attendant taxes and jobs for thousands of Americans, something the government has never done.

Our great Republic was not built on the back of government or unions. It was built on the shoulders of the genius of trail blazers, innovators and risk takers. Americans who are willing to take a chance and unleash their dreams and vision on us and the world. If they succeed they deserve to be rewarded, if not there is no motivation to try. If they fail, they accept it, get up, and try again. America offers every single one of us the equal opportunity to succeed, it does NOT offer us equal outcomes. History bears this out.

Barrack Hussein despises fewer phrases than "on your own". He considers it a lie when people think they've made it on their own, and he thinks the most damning thing that can be said is about the Conservative vision is that it will leave people on its own. To him and all statists "we're all in this together", and the inspiration that embodies that "togetherness" in none other than the Internal Revenue Service.

Now he wants to just allow millions of criminals that crossed our border illegally, have trespassed on our sovereign soil, abused our social system to benefit from generations of American exceptionalism without any penalty or retribution. And we all know why. It's not for some compelling sensitivity or humanistic tolerance, it's for their votes.

Statists sole purpose in life is to maintain their status of political power. He understands that if Americans realize they are very capable of being independent and successful on their own then governments role is diminished to what our Founder's and Framer's intended it to be. Our governments purpose is clearly and undeniably defined in the Constitution. Its limitations are outlined in 18 simple steps in the Enumerated Powers in Article 1, Section8.

Progressivism has been bastardizing those powers for over a century. Today we see how embarrassingly inept Barrack Hussein has trivialized the average American with his "Life of Julia" cartoon. From the cradle to the grave he believes that you are incapable of caring for yourself and your own. Unfortunately from many of the postings on this and other Liberal/Progressive sites, he's right. It's shameful that so many good, hard working Americans have become so indoctrinated in this embarrassing belief. His advocacy of mediocrity by promoting the best you can become is middle-class should outrage even the most rabid Liberal. A real leader promotes attaining as much as you want, not what he thinks you should be.

Yes we are a nation of immigrants, LEGAL IMMIGRANTS! Pandering to a group who have abused our laws and taken advantage of them for their criminal benefit can no longer be allowed.

They have come to this country, take advantage of the system and think because we are tolerant that we are weak and helpless. Their arrogance offends me.

It should offend you too.

EEngineer "Roy Wilson.......If you are trying to convince people that the Republican years from 2000 to 2008 were somehow good for this country, you are fighting a lost cause."

The average number of people working during the time Bush was in office (2000 vs 2008) increased by 8,471,000 net new jobs.

The economy (GDP) under Bush increased by 46.6%, an average of nearly 6% per year.

The average number of people working during Obama's last 4 years (2012 vs 2008) DECREASED by 2,903,000 net jobs.

The economy (GDP) under Obama increased by only 8.4%, an average of only 2.1% per year.

I'll take those Bush years over those Obama years any day.

Source - Official Obama Administration data.

By the way - I don't think you EVEN want to compare the average $251 Billion annual Deficits for Bush's 8 years in office (2001-2008) with Obama's average $1,274 Billion annual Deficits over the last 4 fiscal years (2009 - 2012).

Have a nice day :)

ROY WILSON-336103

EEngineer "Roy Wilson loves his numbers... the way he interprets them."

No 'interpretation' required - I just reported the actual numbers reported by the Obama Administration.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Roy, you're facts are getting in the way of the bobble-headed Liberals/Progressives indoctrinated utopia by Barrack Hussein. I don't know anyone who has had to repeat your facts, taken from Barracks OWN actuaries, so many times and yet the Libbies still argue them. You're obviously not getting their daily memo's about not looking at the real numbers, only what they're told to do like good little lemmings.

It's so sad to see so many once good, hard working Americans become so obtunded by ideology rather than policy. Don't get me wrong, this exists on both sides of the aisle but Barrack Hussein and his elitists have taken it to unheard of heights.

I guess when we have the most embarrassing education system that graduates illiterates it's easy enough to do. The worst thing is they just simply accept what they're told and are programmed to just repeat it over and over until they actually believe it.

Keep up the good fight my good friend. We real Americans have to keep trying to save our great Republic from the evil clutches of Barrack Hussein and his indoctrinated minions before they truly do transform it into a Democracy.

It's amusing watching them squirm, isn't it?

JimSpence ""I don't believe President Obama wants an immigration bill to pass, instead I think he wants a political issue,"............BINGO!!!! DING, DING, DING, WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!

This is the essence of Barrack Hussein. He has no ability at governance, only division by politics.

This president has no intention of helping America. His mission is to promise utopia and then deliver despair. His record speaks for itself.

In 2008 our National Debt was $9.5 trillion, today it is $16.6 trillion, an increase of $7 trillion. In 4 years it is projected to be $22.6 trillion. This amounts to an increase of $13 trillion, or over twice what all the preceding presidents have created.

We have more people on food stamps and disability than ever in our history. Our streets are rampant with crime, violence, drugs and murders. Racism has not only increased under barrack Hussein, it is promoted by him and the complicit media. Our great Republic is more divided than I can remember."

EXCELLENT SUMMARY.

The recent election seems to provide proof that "You can fool MOST of the people ALL of the time" - especially when he has the mainstream media making excuses for him. Could you imagine the media ignoring the dismal economy after 4 years under Obama if he was a Republican?

By the way - my next Post will highlight what I see as the REAL looming crisis. A bit technical (especially for technically challenged Liberals), but scary.

Here are the 2 biggest problems facing the United States today;

1) - The National Debt is projected to be $20.392 Trillion in 2016 - if Obama gets all of the tax increases he's asked for and the economy suddenly starts growing at 5% per year instead of the 2% of the last 4 years (Source - Obama's 2013 Budget). Presidential Budget projections are very optimistic.

Interest Rates on the Debt over the last 30 years before Obama averaged 4.92% per year.

If history is a guide, at $20.392 Trillion of Debt in 2016, we can expect the Interest alone on the National Debt to increase to slightly over $1 Trillion per year in 2016, an increase of over $800 Billion per year above the average of $199 Billion per year paid under Bush. That's an increase of more than $8 TRILLION over 10 years - just for Interest expense. The current 'haggling' over a few hundred $Billion in taxes and spending cuts over 10 years is insignificant compared with this problem.

And the portion of Federal revenues required for Interest expense could increase from 10.02% of ALL Federal receipts in 2008 to 27.6% of Federal receipts in 2016. That dramatic increase in revenues dedicated to Interest expense will crowd out huge amounts of spending that could be used for 'entitlements' and running the government (causing Austerity). That dramatic increase in money spent for Interest will also require huge tax increases, which will cause a huge drop in consumer spending, which will stagnate the economy and cause high Unemployment (ala Greece).

No matter what happens over the next 4 years, EVERYONE will face huge tax increases – just to pay the Interest expense.

2) - Inflation (and Interest Rates) are poised to skyrocket. Any student of Economics is taught that there is a very simple formula that predicts general price levels (Inflation) – Here it is;

M x V = P x Q

In the preceding equation, M is the money supply, V is the velocity of money, as measured by the number of times the money supply turns over in a year, P is the general level of prices, and Q is the quantity of goods and services available, which changes very slowly over time (w/ productivity).

Applying this simple formula, it's easy to see that a significant change in any of these 'variables' will have a direct impact on Prices, as reflected in the inflation rate. Doubling the money supply (M) ultimately leads to a doubling of prices (P) over a relatively short period of time.

What's happening right now is that the Money Supply (M1) has been increasing dramatically over the last few years ($1.4 Trillion in 2008 vs $2.5 Trillion now) because the Federal Reserve has been 'creating' more money to fund the huge current government Deficits. Ultimately, this will be highly inflationary, and if/when the Federal Reserve has to reverse course to counter inflation by reducing the money supply, it will lead to high interest rates and an economic contraction (recession). Generally, the greater the reduction in the money supply, the greater the contraction. In Milton Friedman's book "Money Mischief" he devotes chapter 8 to this subject – 'The Cause and Cure of Inflation'. History has shown that this is a 'Truism' – it has ALWAYS happened in the past.

The main reason that we have not experienced an inflationary spiral to date is the recession, which has resulted in a slowing in the Velocity (V) of money, and the 'lag time' between an increased money supply and its effects, but when inflation begins and people start 'getting rid' of Dollars that are declining in value by buying things, Prices (P) will quickly rise ever faster, thus forcing the Federal Reserve to intervene. A classic example of this process in action occurred in the early 1980s, when Paul Volker (then the head of the Federal Reserve) reduced the money supply, which forced consumer interest rates up to about 18% per year to combat the 14% inflation rate in late 1980. The result was a sharp recession and high unemployment. Interesting point - $1.00 from 1970 is currently worth only 17 cents in equivalent value because of inflation.

For an interesting 'read' on the relationship between M1 and Inflation, I would recommend the following link;

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation/Money_Supply_and_Inflation.asp

And the reason that it will happen is political ineptness, as shown by a N Y Times article, linked below;

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/04/opinion/04meltzer.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&th&emc=th

Forewarned is forearmed, and 'Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it'.

Peter Dean,

I have already come across illegal immigrants that were criminals.. They were supposed to be deported which they were and they came back to this country and continue their criminal activities even after serving time in jail. Does not stop them... They will continue breaking the law and to make them citizens that is what they want to do???

JimSpence

Here is what I believe allowed Obama to win in 2012, despite the dismal economy over the last 4 years;

Why did Obama win?

Obama increased the number of people dependent on the government for assistance (the number of people getting food stamps, free health care and/or cash aid increased from about 30 million in 2008 to about 47 million in 2012). That's an increase of about 17 million getting 'free' assistance from the government. The cost to taxpayers of welfare for food, cash aid and Medicaid is about $735 Billion per year (2011 estimate) – That's about 67% of the total Deficit for 2012.

Obama's campaign then implied that “If Romney is elected, he will take away your food stamps”.

Obama won this group by almost 13 million votes, while Romney won the group that pays the income taxes to fund the welfare by about 8 million votes – Net win for Obama = about 5 million votes.

Simple, but effective.

Statistics - According to N Y Times Exit Polls from the election, there were an estimated 31.8 Million voters in the income group averaging under $30,000 per year that includes those on Welfare (Non-Senior, ), and 22.3 Million of them voted for Obama, vs only 9.4 Million for Romney – that's a net gain for Obama of 12.9 million votes, and Obama won overall by less than 5 million votes, meaning that Romney actually won the group that actually pays income taxes by about 8 million votes, but the group that includes those getting 'free' welfare was just too big to overcome.

That's 'Chicago-Style' politics in action - using taxpayer funds to finance their reelection.

JimSpence "It's amusing watching them squirm, isn't it?"

Indeed!

This is fun playing my favorite game - I call it "Confound a Liberal with facts"

I have some other things to do now, so "Have a nice day" bye :)

GOP Paralyzed themselves because they pledged to vote and obstruct anything good for America just to make President Obama appear to look bad. America saw through it and elected President Obama again.

GOP hates middle Class and poor Americans so much they even blocked health care for the 911 responders.

GOP hates our middle class soldiers so much they voted against jobs bill for vets while soldiers and vets are committing suicide at a record pace.

GOP not paralyzed when it comes to giving tax breaks to the rich or sending jobs overseas!!!!!

People who read Roy Wilson comments are doomed...because he is bound to repeat himself.

The 10 ICE agents suing Napolitano and ICE Director John Morton say those directives violate the Constitution and federal immigration law. "We are federal law enforcement officers who are being ordered to break the law," said Chris Crane, an ICE agent and president of the National Immigration and Customs Enforcement Council, a union for ICE employees. "This directive puts ICE agents and officers in a horrible position."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ice-agents-sue-agency-deferred-deportations/story?id=17069319

ICE spokesman Ross Feinstein did not comment on the lawsuit but said more than half of the nearly 400,000 illegal immigrants deported in 2011 had been convicted of crimes, the largest number in the agency's history. He said that shows the decision to focus on the most dangerous illegal immigrants is a policy that works, and June's decision to defer deportation for young illegal immigrants enhances that strategy.

Again I say, I have long said that I understand the plight of the illegal immigrant wanting to better themselves and families. The problem is that they are doing it illegally, and are placing our laws secondary to their needs.It should be a felony, not a misdemeanor to be here illegally, and the penalties should be strictly enforced! Instead we have a government that actually rewards law breakers, by way of giving them financial assistance, to live here illegally! Another issue is that they put US citizens at financial risk by breaking other laws, again putting our laws secondary to their needs, due to their economic situation, ie. driving without insurance, driving unregistered or uninspected vehicles etc.! We were promised at the last Amnesty that it wasn't going to happen again, Lo and Behold we are sending the message to come on over, as it will happen again, and again, because we are not true to our word! Think of our unemployment rate, if we did not have the millions of illegal immigrants working here!

After almost dead silence on the issue during the Bush years the GOP found they could get traction amongst their base using immigration as a weapon against Obama. Then-surprise,surprise-they discover that their weapon is a two-edged sword and they on the wrong side of it. Maybe nest time they create a divisive issue they'll think a bit more carefully about the consequences. As it is they need to find a way to help fix our broken system that's actually workable.

Translation: The party of no has painted themselves into a corner and now is looking to blame someone else for their stupidity.

The average number of people working during the time Bush was in office (2000 vs 2008) increased by 8,471,000 net new jobs.

Yeah, but you have to follow the rest of the history, too. The last 3 months of Bush's second term we lost 2 million jobs. In the 10 months following that, we lost another 7 million. Overall, George W. Bush's two terms in office left America with 1 million fewer jobs than when he took office. They call it the Bush Recession for a very good reason.

Now you spin this any way you want, but the American people know better. Hell, the Republican party knows better. When was the last time a presidential election didn't prominently figure a living ex-president? Ol' Dubya was notably absent. The last thing the Republican party wanted to do was remind America how much of a failure the last Republican president was.

Roy Wilson,

Really? So you’re going to try to claim that using numbers before Obama has even taken office (end of 2008) is reflective of Obama’s presidency or his policies? Or even say, starting the day he took office? And of course, that would be completely ignoring the pattern of significant job loss that happened because of the economy crashing. Which again, I guess we’re now blaming the crash on Obama too.

But even if you want to use your starting point, great – the point is if you plot the trend you would see significant job losses during the first year of Obama’s term that coincide with the pattern of job losses that started at the beginning of 2008 (i.e., Bush’s last year) followed by a trend of job gain over the past 3 years – a gain of around 6 million jobs (taken from the point when jobs were at the lowest).

Even if you want to claim that things that Obama did in his first year in office attributed to the job losses, are you really going to pretend those job losses had NOTHING to do the with economic crash that occurred before he was in office?

Either way, your numbers are a disingenuous way of reflecting what happened. But color me surprised that someone who opposes Obama will essentially ignore the economic crash that occurred before, attribute the job losses that occurred in first year in office entirely to Obama and ignore the job gains of the past three years.

Hi Larry,

Two simple and, I think, fair points in reply. First, you are right that Bush's average deficit had to be higher, but it wasn't me who picked the $200 bn number to claim was immoral. It was Mr. Obama in 2007, as candidate for the Democratic Party's nomination. My point wasn't really to say one number was right, or wrong, but that to complain about one number as being immoral, as Mr. Obama surely did, but then to argue not just the morality of a number four or five times more, but to also claim righteousness about it, is just too hypocritical for me to accept as reasonable politics.

Second, if Mr. Obama was actually trying to stimulate the economy I think your point might have some validity despite my economic understanding that it's no more effective than trying to stand in a bucket and lift yourself by the handle. There are just too many policies Mr. Obama pursues, and which you support, which do everything BUT stimulate the economy for your comment to have any validity at all. Whether it is an unwillingness to allow exploitation of natural resources on PUBLIC lands, or an imposition of a tax on hiring more employees found in Obamacare, this president has done about everything he can to stifle economic growth. What he has done is try to redistribute the pie, and maybe to you this is enough. But I want the pie to grow. Mr. Obama is no baker.

So while you froth at the mouth and fail to see the points I am making it is fine, but it gets us no where positive. You can call me a RWNJ all you want. It probably makes you feel good, or at least superior. But if you read my first post my complaints aren't only with left wing nuts such as yourself. If we were to have an honest conversation, something I think is unlikely to have with you, I think you'd see that my main criticism is of Republicans compromising away their principles in the vain hope of electoral success. All they have done is validate in the minds of many voters that modern liberalism is the way to go, and that one party is honest about it (Democrats) and the other party (Republicans) is playing a cruel and cynical game of trying to patronize voters just enough to win power, or keep what little they have.

I'd prefer that Republicans first apoogize to the American voters for their cynicism, explain WHY it has been wrong to go this way, and then pledge to return to constitutionalism even if it means that they will be routed in future elections. This country DESERVES the government it elects. Republicans should give voters a fair and honest choice. If people vote like you, then fine. Our end will come sooner rather than later, and we might be able to pick up the pieces and move on. See, the American IDEA can't be killed, no matter how much you and Mr. Obama want to do so.

ROY WILSON-336103

Roy, your posts, explanations and summaries are always spot on. Your most important statement is this one.

No matter what happens over the next 4 years, EVERYONE will face huge tax increases – just to pay the Interest expense.

This is the essence of what Barrack Hussein wants to do.

Remember, this man has never worked in the private sector. He has always benefitted from the public sector. First as a community organizer, as an adjunct professor and then as a State and U.S. Senator. He has no concept of how the average American has to compete to survive in the private sector.

Oh yes, he will pontificate in front of the unwashed massed with his resplendent speeches of how he feels the pain of the middle-class.

BULLSH*T!!!!!

The closest he’s ever come to any understanding of the plight of the average American is by reading a few books and his daily faculty lounge meetings with the other Ivy League intelligentsia who have never achieved anything based on merit, only tenure. The problem is most of the beaureaucrasy cabal of 545 we have representing us are the same.

Many of us are familiar with his mastery of Saul Alinsky but we forget his exemplary knowledge of his other mentors, the two Marxist sociologists, Richard Cloward and Francis Piven. This is also known as the Illuminati’s Brazil strategy.

Their ideology simply involves bribing both individuals and corporations with fiat money. This involves empowering both the bankers and the intelligentsia and enslaving the electorate with massive debt. This obviously requires that someone must be in a position to be able to manipulate this into existence. What greater position allows this other than the person who controls the strongest economy in history? We were in a lose-lose situation in 2008 in this regard as Hitlery Clinton even admitted her adoration of Cloward and Piven in her college dissertation.

Contrary to what many believe, Barrack Hussein is no fool. He is not incompetent. On the contrary, he knows exactly what he is doing. His indoctrination started as a child with a socialist mother and an anti-colonization/Marxist father. Then his early exposure to Frank Marshall Davis and 20 years in the front pew of Reverend Wrights school of theological justice. Anyone who argues that being influenced so long, at such an early age, is inconsequential is either illiterate or complicit.

Remember Rahm Emanuels controversial statement, “never let a good crisis go to waste, when you can do things you otherwise couldn’t”? Crisis is how all of Progressivisms manipulation of our Constitution, culture and morality has succeeded. When are the masses most vulnerable? That’s right, during a crisis. From Wilsons WW I creation of the Progressive tax system, the Federal Reserve and other intrusions the groundwork was being laid down. Then FDR’s New Deal during the Depression, LBJ’s Great Society during the Controversial Vietnam War and now Barrack Hussein with the Great Recession. All of them created during great social upheaval and chaos when the electorate was most easily manipulated.

Barrack Hussein may claim to be a Christian but his Muslim underpinnings get exposed more and more with time. All of his czars are anti-business and anti-American. Massive debt, fiscal malinvestment, monetary malfeasance with no attempt at correcting it. Thousands of restrictive regulations on business. Repeated usurpation of our Constitution either by personal misinterpretation or abject ignoring of it.

His Machiavellian game plan to turn to turn the United States into a Socialis/Marxist state with a permanent majority that desperately needs government for survival. This is the voter base you so aptly described above in your demographic statistics.

Obamacare has little to do with healthcare. It has everything to do with unionizing millions of hospitals and workers, not to mention 16,000 new IRS agents. The 30 million uninsured are nothing more than a massive voter base that he will cement into the Democrat column. The trillions of dollars it will cost over and above his promise of it not costing us “a single dime” was forgotten the minute he signed that massive 2,734 page redistribution of wealth into law. Who other than a committed statist revolutionary would pass this reckless spending bill in the middle of a massive economic crisis?

Cap and Tax has nothing to do with the made up fairy tale of global warming. It has everything to do with more redistribution of our wealth, government control of the economy and a criminal payoff to his biggest contributors. How much more hypocrisy do we need in this arena than Al AL Jazeera Gore making millions off of Middle East oil? All of Barrack Husseins biggest supporters like GE, NBC, the lawyers and others will benefit as the middle class pays more and more for the energy we sit on for “environmental” purposes. The benefit to the Democrats will just be more and more millions in election war-chests as the unwashed masses scratch their heads and wonder what happen to their promise of Shangri-La.

Amnesty to 20 million Mexicans means nothing more to him then votes. More dependent on welfare, ADC, food stamps, free medical, education, tax credits and eventually Social Security that they never contributed anything to. By the way, don’t be surprised if some unconstitutional pandering to the millions of Puerto Rican welfare candidates isn’t made soon. I think it will be another of his “executive powers” under the guise of “it’s the right thing to do” memes.

The blatant disregard this man has to anything that is American is amazing. More ominously he has convinced the useful idiots that the best they can ever become is middle class. This is because the rich will be driven off and the middle class will be the ones supporting this massive coup.

The worst thing is they either don’t see it or are to obtunded with their indoctrination to care.

I have also been looking into Costa Rica as a possible refuge. We are considering moving 2 of our companies there. There are definitely significant benefits to be had.

Siobhan27 "Roy Wilson, Really? So you’re going to try to claim that using numbers before Obama has even taken office (end of 2008) is reflective of Obama’s presidency or his policies?"

Nice try at a spin, but I didn't attribute anything that happened under Bush to Obama. I merely compared the records of each, since you seem to claim that Bush's record was terrible, and Obama's record is good. I think a valid comparison on important issues such as economic growth, job creation (or loss) and debt are pretty important these days, and entirely valid.

Your response seems to be "Yeah, but it's Bush's fault", which typifies liberal thinking.

Roy,

I didn't actually say anything about Bush, except to point out the crisis started under him. I never even said that the crisis was Bush's fault (that's another debate). The only thing I was pointing out is that you can't really attribute job losses due to the economic crash to Obama when Obama wasn't even in office at the time of the crash began. I'm not sure how that is a controversial statement.

What I was saying is that I think the numbers you are using to represent job growth/job loss under Obama are disingenuous. Unless you're actually going to claim that the 3 million jobs lost in the first 6 months of Obama's presidency are all his fault and have nothing to do with the economic crash that happened PRIOR to Obama's presidency, then a more accurate representation of job growth in Obama's term would be June 2009 - current. And when you look at those numbers, you see a job increase of 3,000,000.

And in fact, most statistics that are used for economic growth, job growth, etc. under presidents usually doesn't start until 9 months into their presidency -- so, I was actually undercutting Obama by only using 6 months into his presidency.

No matter how you cut it, there was a trajectory of job loss that started at the end of 2007 and continued through the end of 2009. Pretending that the trajectory of job loss due to a recession (that hadn't yet bottomed out) should have suddenly and magically stopped the minute a president took office in January of 2009 is ridiculous.

But again, even if you don't like my starting point, all you have to do is plot the number of jobs each month during all of Obama's presidency. You would see that in the first year of his presidency there is a significant drop in jobs -- but in the past three years there has been an increase of over 6 million jobs. So, which should we judge Obama on? That first year or the past three?

CONSERVATIVES' BRAINS HARD-WIRED FOR SENSITIVITY TO FEAR: STUDY

Liberals and conservatives rarely see eye to eye, and it appears there may be a physical reason for that. Scientists believe they have found a physical correlation between a person's political views and the sizes of areas of their brains.

Those who identified themselves as conservative tended to have a larger amygdala. The amygdala is an area of the brain connected to processing fear, and is also linked to greater sensitivity to disgust and to the "flight or flight" response.

Meanwhile, liberals tended to have a larger anterior cingulate cortex (ACC). That part of the brain is linked with monitoring and coping with uncertainty.

This is the first study to show a physical difference between the two regions based on liberal vs. conservative views. Previously, other research showed greater brain activity in those areas in the same political view bent.

The study concluded, however, that fear and uncertainty are involved in the makeup of varying political views, perhaps explaining why the GOP has been found to use fear as a focus of its advertising.

"Our findings are consistent with the proposal that political orientation is associated with psychological processes for managing fear and uncertainty."

http://www.examiner.com/article/conservatives-brains-hard-wired-for-sensitivity-to-fear-study

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2811%2900289-2

Roy,

And if you want a point of comparison between Obama and Bush, then here I will give Bush the same six month leeway (which is also helpful to Bush because jobs were also dropping off at the end of Clinton's presidency and that continued into the beginning of Bush's presidency).

June 2001, nonfarm employees (establishment survey): 132, 383, 000
December 2008, nonfarm employees (establishment survey): 135, 489, 000

So, over 7 1/2 years, Bush showed a net growth of a little over 3 million jobs. Compared to Obama's 3 1/2 years, in which he shows a net growth of roughly 3 million jobs.

But let's be even nicer to Bush. Let's say none of the economic crisis was his fault and thus we will take out all of 2008 from his data and instead end his calculation at Dec 2007: 138, 495, 000

So, a net growth of 6 million jobs over 6 1/2 years for Bush. 3 million for Obama over 3 1/2 years. If Obama maintains the same level of job growth, he will be close to Bush's total net job growth (after we gave Bush a pass on the entire last year of his presidency in which 3 million jobs were lost).

So, even after being excruciatingly nice to Bush on his numbers and leaving out the crisis, Bush didn't do any better than Obama-- and again, keep in mind that Obama came into the presidency with one of the worst recessions since the Great Depression.

Siobhan27

So, even after being excruciatingly nice to Bush on his numbers and leaving out the crisis, Bush didn't do any better than Obama-- and again, keep in mind that Obama came into the presidency with one of the worst recessions since the Great Depression.

Your analysis is flawed.

Granted Barrack Hussein walked into a mess but he knew it was there.

You Libbies need to understand that he campaigned on how wonderful he was going to make the economy once again for over a year as the housing bubble as well as the financial liquidity crisis was unraveling. The first bank crisis occurred in August of 2007 when BNP Paribas claimed “a complete evaporation of liquidity”. He knew exactly what he was getting into. His back-peddling later that his economic council underestimated the severity is just politispeak for I fu**ed up.

This is what you get for believing economists. Remember, NONE of Barrack Husseins advisors saw he housing/financial collapse coming. The only economists/authorities I know that were spot on for this prediction were Dean Baker, Med Jones, Nouriel Roubini, Peter Schiff, Meredith Whitney and Jimmy Rogers. You can argue Nouriel Roubini, AKA Dr. Doom, as he has been predicting collapses for 30 years, but he was right on this one.

Bush on the other hand was in office for nearly 7 months before the effects of the dot-com bubble collapse were felt. This was a mere 2 months before the greatest terrorist attack in history occurred on our sovereign soil. Many forget the dramatic impact this had on our nation and the global effect. The unemployment level never went over 6.3 however. Full employment is considered at an unemployment rate of about 3.5%, the average for the past 40 years however is closer to 4.5%. Bush attained these rates about January of 2006 after Katrinas impact. This lasted roughly through November of 2007 when the housing bubble and the liquidity crisis began.

When there is near optimal employment in a system there isn’t much more the economy can do. These numbers are very good considering the effects of the recession Bush inherited, 9/11, two wars beginning and Katrina.

You Liberals/Progressives also used this flawed logic on Romneys job creation in Massachusetts. He lowered unemployment from 5.6% to 4.7%. This did not create many jobs but when you’re dealing a low rate to begin with it is significant. Even though he created 49,100 jobs, a 1.5%increase, his predecessors Governor Jane Swift only created 19,000 jobs, a 0.59% increase, and his successor Deval Patrick only created 66,100 jobs, a decrease of 2.03%. The Obama ad that claimed Massachusetts “fell” to 47^th under Romney was a lie. In the 12 months before he took office, the state ranked 50th in job creation. That ranking remained 50th during Romney’s first year in office, but by his final year, it had improved to 28th.

You can spin jobs data anyway you want when certain numbers are cherry-picked.

Unfortunately the majority of Americans are too illiterate on these issues, and many more, and will believe whatever they are told, especially if their chosen party is the one spewing their lies and deception. This goes for both sides of the aisle.

SIMPLE.....

Everything Mr. "Drama" Obama says ...... he does the opposite.

Wow, and the Prgoressives are going to believe everything he says.

Get in line sheepies.

JimSpence,

You spend previous posts agreeing with Roy Wilson and all his facts that us "libbies" can't handle when he picks just two data points and says this is what reflects the trends of Obama's presidency.

I point out that if you plotted the month by month numbers over the course of Obama's presidency and see the trajectories, that you would get a more accurate picture. But, I'm the one cherry picking? I somehow think that maybe you're just a little biased in who you want to accuse of cherry picking...

Also, now you seem suddenly concerned with using raw numbers of employed individuals to represent the comparison between Bush and Obama, but didn't have a problem with that when Roy Wilson was using raw numbers of employed individuals to make a comparison that was more favorable to your argument.

So, which is it -- was Roy (as you so strongly agreed with him earlier) wrong to use raw employment numbers to make a comparison between Bush and Obama? Or is it only wrong for me to use raw employment numbers to make a comparison because you don't like what I have to say?

And again -- two questions that have yet to be answered by you and Roy:

1.) Are you really going to try to claim that the job losses in the first six months of Obama's presidency are entirely due to Obama and his policies? Or are you willing to accept that they reflect the trajectory of job loss we had been seeing since the end of 2007?

If it's the latter, then you better revise your numbers -- Obama's net gain in jobs is 3 million.
If it's the former, you're going to have to make a case for why you believe that any president (Obama or not) would have been able to stop the trajectory of job loss that started in 2007 due to a recession the minute they took office. (And also, if there was some magical way to do so, why didn't Bush do it at the end of his presidency?)

2.) In the past three years of Obama's presidency, there has been a job gain of over 6 million jobs. Does Obama get credit for that? Or does he only get credit for the job losses in his first year?

What I find real interesting about this thread is the unveiling of the new Republican party line. Roy Wilson and Jim Spence can always be depended on to trumpet the new party line.

And here it is: "No matter how bad George W. Bush's two terms in office looked, it was really good! No matter how good things look under Obama, it is really bad!" Black is white and white is black.

Like George Orwell's "Ministry of Truth" in 1984, the Republican party now is trying to convince us that, with the weakest investment growth, employment growth, and income growth since WWII (note that the referenced article was written before the crash of '08), the economy under George W. Bush was actually doing quite well! And, if only the American people weren't so stupid, they would realize it!

The only thing I will find interesting in the continuation of this debate is to see just how far Republican lies and bullcrap will stretch to white-wash Bush's legacy. History will certainly not be as kind to George W. Bush as the Republican party is trying to be right now. Nor should it be...

Don't disturb Roy and Jim. They are smack in the middle of another circle jerk.