BeatNik - You will be long gone before you see any meaningful reform. Ban/Control/Confiscate all you want, 3D printers will just pick up the slack. Oh and they won't be registered. Try to put that genie back in its bottle.

I really pity you Chucky. No one should be this ignorant............

I see that gun manufactures are starting to fight back by not selling to any state/city government agencies any firearm, magazine, or related items that has been banned in that particular state/city, or that can not be owned by that states/city residents. Makes sense to me, and I would expect many more manufactures to follow suit.

Don

Bloomberg is a 'small donor'? I thought he was a MULTI Billionaire!

except for private sales between individuals, universal background checks are already in effect; the gun show exemption is not correct( unless it is a private gun show, without dealers who have a federal firearms license.

assault rifles are very poorly identified, tighten up on what is a real assault rifle, require a private sale to be registered by sending in a form of seller and buyer, (they can then background the buyer)unless the senate votes on the U.N. treaty to ban all semi-automatic weapons in America, any other legislation will be un-constitutional(art. 6 of the Constitution makes treaty's superior to the Constitution);

there is no way to get the guns out of the hands of the criminal element.

I think this guy pointed out the real issue:

"For a lot of young boys and young men in particular, they don't see an example of fathers or grandfathers, uncles, who are in a position to support families and be held up in respect. And so that means that this is not just a gun issue; it's also an issue of the kinds of communities that we're building. When a child opens fire on another child, there is a hole in that child's heart that government can't fill. Only community and parents and teachers and clergy can fill that hole." - President Barack Obama, Feb. 2013

The SCOTUS just ruled that a person of interest LEAVING THE SCENE could not be SEARCHED in connection with the crime the police were serving the warrant for at his RESIDENCE....

THAT is what is going on in our country today..... the police cannot arrest, the courts cannot convict and the prison cannot hold......

We, as citizens, are left with only ONE OPTION...... protect ourselves from criminals & politicians

Why is this article talking about Jesse Jackson Jr.? We don't beat dead horses in here, right BCWC?

AnaBanana-...., I'll ask you since every other person who says what you say has refused. If guns are pouring into Chicago from states that allegedly have lax laws, why are not the streets in those states running red with the blood of victims?

There needs to be sensible regulation, NOT 9000+ federal firearm regulations that are not being enforced.

There needs to be a universal process in which all qualified buyers (e.g. NOT a felon, mentally ill etc..) should adhere too.

We need to bring back mental health studies and support and bring this issue to the forefront once again.

But most of all we need to start teaching our children (again) the value of life. That's been lost in translation over the decades due to a serious decline in morals and values across the lifestyle spectrum. We will not see ANY change until we address this issue first and foremost.

Guaranteed.

You know I seem to recall seeing a movie in the past where only the police and military had guns and nobody else was allowed to own a gun. But I can't seem to recall the name? What was that movie? Hmmmm, what was the name of that movie?

OH!! That's right!! The movie was called "Schindler's List"......................

.

The NRA is a

Place to learn firearms safety:

http://training.nra.org/

Place for Law Enforcement training and competitions:

http://le.nra.org/

Place to see the National Firearms Museum:

http://www.nramuseum.org/the-guns/featured-guns.aspx

Place to train for the Olympics:

http://www.usashooting.org/membership/youth-programs/youthrifle

Place to go to purchase a WWII M-1 Garand Rifle through the Civilian Marksmanship Program:

http://www.odcmp.com/

.

Instead of blindly bashing an organization you know nothing about, shall we have a real discussion on what seem to be the commonalities and causes of these school shooting tragedies?

.

On the extreme right you'll find those who think everyone should pack a firearm with absolutely no restrictions and on the extreme left you will find those that think that all firearms should be made to be illegal. Neither group finds much support in the middle but their positions are a lot more fun to argue about.

In the end a bill will be introduced that will require all receiving individuals involved in the transfer of all non-black powder fire arms to undergo a background check no matter where or from whom the fire arm is purchased or obtained. The intent is to provide some level of assurance that fire arms are not being put into the possession of a known criminal or an individual that may lack the emotional or mental stability to only use the fire arm wisely.

When called on to vote the only real question to be asked is, should we continue a practice that allows the un traced transfer of firearms to criminals and/or emotionally unstable individuals or not.

How do you imagine a reasonable individual would vote?

Go ahead and ban "assault-style" weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips. When the killing continues (and it WILL continue), then what?

See how they run....

RedDev: So you find one article saying there is NOT 4.5 million members. Big deal.

You see the NRA doesn't release the list of members because of nut jobs like you. But I am a member - that's one. And I join the other 4.499999 million other members to tell you that you are wrong.

But I really don't care WHAT you think. You want to believe it is less than 4.5 million go ahead and believe it. I don't care. But that doesn't nullify the organization. Nearly 10% of all gun owners are members of the NRA - whatever math you want to use that is a large group.

After Sandy Hook membership jumped up 100,000 in only 18 days. That is not only a large group but a large number in support of the 2nd amendment.

So there are thousands joining the NRA each and every day. If you would like to join we would love to have you as a member of the 4.5 million and growing each and every day. If you don't want to join the NRA then, well, I don't give a tiny rat's behind.

Michael Thompson, Charlotte, NC - $2k to print unlimited, untraceable guns? You don't think a gang can come up with $2k to arm themselves? Today they aren't reliable but as you know technology is stagnant and never improves. Today they can print a 30 round clip that can fire 500 rounds before it fails...not to shabby. Your average gangbanger probably won't even go through 100 rounds in their lifetime.

Is this what We Americans need?? 2nd Amend rights tossed Out, NO One except cops have any type of Weapons, skies filled with cop's and homeland security drones Spying On US ALL THE TIME, half of them armed with the New HomeFire Mini Missiles to wipe out citizens HERE who complain about the great smoke and mirrors power ecehelon, The US Corporations, to whom ALL the public servants bow down to and "serve and protect", Yeeaaa Sure!! Serve The Evil Rich and their corporations and protect their Ill gotten Blood Money. Americans are looked upon as mindless and obedient sheep; Are You???????? At $5.00 p/g gas refined from AMERICAN TAXPAYER OWNED CRUDE and Exploited on the World Free Market; Exxon executive given $40,000,000 * CASH* Bonus, Americans Given THE BONER In Congress And We don't have a say about Our property, JUST SHUT UP AND PAY!! You Like That??????????? Did You get a gander at "the Homeland Security Agents" being armed to the hilt as they Try to STRIP AWAY our "well regulated Militia" FireArms? THEY ARE STREET THUGS, KILLERS WITH pasted on badges and guns stuck in their waist bands who will Kill AnyOne they are ordered to with No trial or Day In court. You Like That???? Sounds Like What That Little Sack Of $H!T adman lanza did AND COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED by A National HealthCare Psychiatric OutReach Team. Hell, after checking Lanza and his disallutioned mom, they'd Both be Locked up in a Newly Opened Mental Hospital. You Anti Gun NUTTY people want to Lock Up America's Guns, Except, of course, for the Badged criminals OK!!!!!!!!!!! Lock Up The NutJobs First!! With An American Universal National HealthCare System And A WELL REGULATED Psychiatric Division with "Examine and Retain" authority LIKE OUR SANE ALLYS HAVE..It is Amazing how some of you AntiGun Nutties SelfRighteously turn your Empty Heads to What is REALLY WRONG In America...THE FAULT OF CONGRESS: 20% Unemployment, $4.00Take Home Pay for our kids YET $4.00++p/g of gas And So On, And So On.... For All You AntiGun Nutties...PULLEEEZE look at which way the wind is blowing...'Cause this violence Won't Stop..Ban Knives, Basball Bats, Crickett Batts, Frozen Leg Of Lamb, Table Lamps, Heavy ashtrays and Most Importantly Crooked Politicians on Crapital Hill.....More To Come...

banning guns and removing capitalism is also a format under Facism. I dont remember Bush trying to destroy the evil capitalism or wanting to ban any guns

Fascism is nationalism, imperialism, totalitarianism, corporatism, anti-individualism, supportive of political violence, supportive of the working class, anti-birth control, anti-homosexuality, and supportive of social darwinism. There's elements of either of our political parties in there and elements of neither political party. Either way, you can't conveniently say that a single American political party is fascist.

Morgs,

Michael Thompson, Charlotte, NC - $2k to print unlimited, untraceable guns? You don't think a gang can come up with $2k to arm themselves? Today they aren't reliable but as you know technology is stagnant and never improves. Today they can print a 30 round clip that can fire 500 rounds before it fails...not to shabby. Your average gangbanger probably won't even go through 100 rounds in their lifetime.

You are both mistaken. No firearm can be printed in full on a 3D printer. They manipulate plastic. A plastic gun will not fire anything. Now a clip can be printed and get around magazine size limits. And with time they may be more reliable. But you're not gonna get a full gun out of a 3D printer. Plastic is too fragile.

Excuse me but doesn't Chicago have some of the toughest gun laws in the US? Doesn't Chicago have the highest rate of gun death shootings in the US? So why are the law abiding citizens of Chicago to blame for all of these shootings when the press is reporting gang violence for the shootings? What is trying to be accomplished here? A political agenda perhaps.

Only a fool would try and take away guns from law abiding American citizens. That explains why the Democrats think this is a good idea.

A better idea would be to arm every citizen and demand they carry it. Crime would go down. Give everyone a assault weapon and the field is level.

No, they should be called "Mayors afraid of being called "racists" for pointing out the real problem" ....... the majority of the shootings are black/hispanic gang related.

Seems to me there was a short lived article that connected "fast and furious" guns to several shootings in Chicago. Guns willingly supplied by The Obama's Justice Department for illegal criminal activity. Don't hear any cries for accountability on that fiasco.

Liberal definition of an "assault weapon": any firearm not loaded from the muzzle end with black powder and lead ball. Then, again, if it is a double barrel, it classifies as an "assault weapon", more than 1 shot without reloading.

How many children will be killed/crippled this week riding an ATV or snowmobile? Won't address that issue because tree hugging libs get a kick out of destroying the environment while riding in the woods.

CAYERES

I have not seen the DOJ Study you talked about. I could not find it on the web site of the DOJ. Let me get this straight though. The DOJ. The same people who brought you "Fast and Fourious" an illegal gun smuggling operation into Mexico and lead by the head of the DOJ, who is in contempt of Congress as we speak and Obama who is protecting him from legal harm. Just wanted to know who or what to believe. If the report came from the FBI or some other legitimate source I could believe it. The FBI says gun ownership is up up and away, but murder and violent crimes are down, down, down. Looks like we have more guns, more ammunition in the hands of non criminals and maybe they can protect themselves better. Seems like the people who don't want to protect themselves are the ones the criminals are going after. They actually believe the police are able to stop a crime before it happens.

The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to allow the people the ability to fight by against a tyrannical government.

A. The Federalist Papers, No. 28: Alexander Hamilton expressed that when a government betrays the people by amassing too much power and becoming tyrannical, the people have no choice but to exercise their original right of self-defense — to fight the government.[Halbrook, p. 67]

B. The Federalist Papers, No. 29: Alexander Hamilton explained that an armed citizenry was the best and only real defense against a standing army becoming large and oppressive. [Halbrook, p. 67]

C. The Federalist Papers, No. 46: James Madison contended that ultimate authority resides in the people, and that if the federal government got too powerful and overstepped its authority, then the people would develop plans of resistance and resort to arms. [Halbrook, p. 67]

D. There was no National Guard, and the Founders opposed anything but a very small national military. The phrase “well-regulated” means well-trained and disciplined — not “regulated” as we understand that term in the modern sense of bureaucratic regulation. [This meaning still can be found in the unabridged Oxford English Dictionary, 2d ed. 1989, Vol 13, p. 524, and Vol 20. p. 138.]

E. The Federalists promised that state governments and citizen militias would exist to make sure the federal military never became large or oppressive. To say that the National Guard replaces the notion of the militia runs contrary to what the Founders said and wrote.

F. The Third Amendment: Expressly restrains the federal government from building a standing army and infiltrating it among the people ...and at the people’s expense ... in times of peace. The Third Amendment runs against the idea of a permanent standing army or federalized National Guard in principle, if not by its words.

*********

CHALLENGE TO AMERICANS

As you read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights:

• (1) Look at the enumerated powers of the federal government;
• (2) Look at the express limitations on federal power as set forth in the Second, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments;
• (3) Ask yourself, where does the federal government get any power at all to regulate firearms?
• (4) Ask yourself, why don’t the high school and college textbooks devote any time to the history, philosophical basis and practical meaning of the Second Amendment?

And then consider that law students and future lawyers likewise have received precious little education about the Second Amendment.

Realize, too, that the judges know just about as little. Then imagine how little the average American knows — based on the average public school coverage of the Constitution.

The protection of our sacred right of self-defense against both petty criminals and oppressive government — the right of civilians to keep and bear arms — is in your hands.

http://jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/six-about-2nd.htm

Chicago has more gun violence than any other city in the country, I hear. And, they have the strictest gun laws. But, like good Democrats, they blame Indiana for selling the guns to the criminals...as long as there is someone else to blame, all is well.

Why isn't anyone looking at the real problem...look at the racial make up of the 10 or 20 most violent cities....look at the mental illness records of the last 40 years of mass murderers...tend to what needs tending to...

The proposed gun laws are directed at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, not out of the hands of law abiding citizens. How about a little cooperation?

What do you mean by cooperation? That I should support Feinstein's bill, that I think is TERRIBLE??? Sorry, no can do. When you talk about banning guns that are totally legal TODAY, that's taking guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. She's including a rifle made for the military in 1941 that is in no way a military assault rifle by modern standards which has since become a favorite rifle for hunters. She also expects that these guns will be turned over to the government upon the death of the owner, like THAT'S going to happen! Yes, that would DEFINITELY be taking guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens, or more likely turning law-abiding citizens into criminals. Try and imagine what it would be like if a pro-life politician said "We're not trying to take away your right to abortion, we're just trying to put some reasonable restrictions on it." Would you believe them? Of course not! And I expect you wouldn't cooperate much, either.

Anabanana - i assume you are referring to straw purchases? if so you are incorrect on this one. according to the current back ground check system you CANNOT buy a gun except in the state you ID was issued. i live in texas i can't go to oklahoma and buy a gun with my texas ID. i know this to be the case because i have seen individuals turned down for a purchase because they were out of the state that issued their ID. the gun in chicago are not coming from straw purchases made legally in a neighboring state and being back to chicago. also if iam not mistaken isn't bringing that gun back into chicago illegal and breaking the law? seem the criminals don't obey the law. you must be one of them that is calling for a total and absolute ban of firearms and removal of the 2ND amendment.

Pragmatic.............so its the law abiding citizens that are to blame? Taking away their ability to purchase a gun is going to stop these shootings? Call this what it is a political agenda by the anti-gun crusaders to force their beliefs on those of others. These are the same people who rail about the conservatives. Must be nice to be superior of others.

Pragmatic-3918582 -

No firearm can be printed in full on a 3D printer

True, today. The only component is the barrel, a long reinforced tube available at any hardware store.

As I said, technology will only improve. Before carbon fiber did anyone believe we would be flying around in airplanes made plastic and thread?

@skip...

Please look up the term "non-trasferable"... this means you can't hand down a firearm to your kid or grandkids when they are old enough" this is a form of confiscation.

And ammo? Try listening to what Blumenthal wants to do... Increase taxes on ammo 100%..

Please wake up to the smell of what liberals are cooking up..

Just wanted to add that gun/ ammo prices are skyrocketing

not to mention a lot of AR's and variants (semi autos since you libs believe all guns are semi auto AR style weapons) are out of stock. But thanks to Obama, guess he is doing something good for the economy...Supply and Demand work... THis is a narrative being driven outside of fact from the WH and uber liberal supporters and card carrying Commies...

So libs here's a charge.. Go find the actual deaths caused by AR vs say a semi auto handgun in the last 12 months. Hell you can start in Chitown.

A houseful of guns is a liability. They must be stored, cleaned, kept from the kids...

Hyperbole. So you b*tch about being controlled yet you advocate for control. KB, just say it. 'I KB want Obama to be sole ruler over the USSA'. Get it off your chest, you'll feel better

according to the current back ground check system you CANNOT buy a gun except in the state you ID was issued.

except that is untrue. You can purchase a gun in Nevada from Arizona or Idaho (you cant from Cali *shock*). In fact most Firearms sold from a private person in Nevada will ask for a NV ID to be safe before they sell it.

Annabanana:

I live in Houston... 4th largest city in the US. We are not in the top 10 cities for gun violence. the reason? We all own guns. Criminals look for victims who can't protect themselves. If you try to rob or harm me or my family, you will be shot. If not by me, by my neighbors. you should really research your arguments first.

NikNik, the British are still trying to figure out how they got it so wrong nearly 250 years ago. Freedom won out over tyrannical government control then and it will again if need be. Take it to the bank.

And didn't they teach you about Posse Comitatus in boot camp jarhead?

In a country of 300 million people, and 600 million guns, believe me more guns is not the answer, no matter how much the gun lobby/NRA protests. All the gun manufacturers care about is more gun sales, they would send a lot of money to the parents of those very young children who were murdered at Sandy Hook, for increasing their gun sales. That's why they love President Obama, with his gun safety views, and the stupidity wedded to ignorance of the gun nutjobs, the prices and numbers of gun sales are going thru the roof!! As with almost all things in America, everything can be reduced down to "show me the money" as the reason ideas prevail. Believe me, if the gunners could make more money by not selling guns, Chicago would have less hand guns than Tokyo!

The guns are just a distraction from the real issue. The real issue is that everyone of these shooters either were on or were withdrawing from the dangerous anit-depressants lookit up the info is out there, we must not let the second admendmant be infringed upon no matter what. The line in the sand has been drawn. We must not let the government step over that line, they have already violated their oath of office and they must be held accountable for that. For your info I am a democrat and i execiise my rright to bear arms. NOBODY is GOING to TAKE THAT RIGHT AWAY. When are you people going to stop bickering back and forth and stand together to protect our rights and force our government to do its job and enforce the laws that are already in place. Obama and Biden have already openly admited that these new proposals will not do anything to stop the violence. So why are they not addressing the real issues here. Have anyone of you people every stop to think about that? Stop arguing about the distractions and strand together on the real issues here and force our Gov. to do the same or we throw them out and start over with some that will uphold and protect the constitution like they are swore to do.

hardtostarboard,

Firstread is targeted towards liberals. So they think their audience is quite stupid.

Morgs:

Michael Thompson, Charlotte, NC - $2k to print unlimited, untraceable guns? You don't think a gang can come up with $2k to arm themselves? Today they aren't reliable but as you know technology is stagnant and never improves. Today they can print a 30 round clip that can fire 500 rounds before it fails...not to shabby. Your average gangbanger probably won't even go through 100 rounds in their lifetime.

You're still severely overstating the capabilities of 3d printers. Thus far, from what I've read, people have been able to replicate magazines and there was an article discussing how one gun hobbyist replicated one usable part that was functional. To my knowledge, no one has even come close to replicating an entire AR-15 using a 3D printer.

As such, $20,000 is a helluva investment for your fictitious, hypothetical gang to make in the hopes that one day the technology may reach the point of actually being able to replicate an entire gun. (And there's always the fact that their original $20k 3-D printer may not be able to do it because whatever the advance is that allows the newer ones to do it may not be backwards compatible to their machine)

But regardless, assume that this gang does drop the cash and can replicate fully functional plastic guns.

That isn't the issue to me. If these people are dedicated enough to the criminal profession that they actually put in the time and effort to pull off this Leverage-like feat, that means that there probably is nothing that legislation could do to stop them.

But it will stop the thousands of drunk asshats every year that get pissed off at their girlfriends and go out to buy a .22 to shoot her after they discovered her cheating on them. And it might stop the maniacs. And eventually, unless the gang in question just sits on their supply of invisible guns, ban laws (which I advocate even though the majority don't) will eventually result in the cops finding your 3-D printer gun producing band, because once you take the pawn shops and gun shows and gun shops and dealers out of the question, the cops will know that the distribution avenues for these 'invisible' guns will be few and far between.

Which will also happen to, you know, save even more lives because your average everyday guy just isn't going to know where to go to get a gun when he's pissed off and wants to shoot his neighbor because the neighbor's dog pooped one too many times in the yard.

But thanks to Obama, guess he is doing something good for the economy...Supply and Demand work... THis is a narrative being driven outside of fact from the WH and uber liberal supporters and card carrying Commies...

How old are you, Caesar? Hasn't your mother taught you that you don't blame YOUR stupid behavior on someone else?

There's elements of either of our political parties in there and elements of neither political party. Either way, you can't conveniently say that a single American political party is fascist

I never said that, might want to address the original person who claimed republicans are fascists. Since Fascism isnt a current political philosophy in practice anywhere good luck labeling anyone that. However Socialism/Communism is unfortunately still practiced throughout the world. Obama's own words foreshadow his desire to be socialistic/communistic state. Forward is another word used by Communist Labor parties in the early 20th century.

@ anna banana

You didn't provide me a list of the guns I asked for that these mayors want gone. Also, as soon as someone said anything about gun control, it surely didn't take the NRA to start that stampede. To blame the NRA solely like most on here like to do, is just disingenuous.

@USMC28 LOL, what government are you talking about? The Constitution are not "rights given to us by the government" it the "rights of the people to protect us FROM the government". Go take government history again.

2nd, the whole US military would not be apart of any gun confiscation. Many local law enforcement departments have voiced they would rebuke and stop any such confiscation to occur. Many STATEs have passed laws making it a criminal act for ANY Federal government agency to do so as well, US military is such a group.

So go ahead and puff up your chest and prance around like your big and bad. There are 1,200 militia groups currently with members in the 200k range. Talk all you want that the military could take on the people you are supposed to protect and not take heavy casualties in return. Last time I checked, we are still fighting against inferior forces in Afghanistan and no clear sight of victory.

If you really are in the military, then you are a traitor at that. You took an oath to protect the Constitution. I would like your rank and serial number please as well. I do not want a weapon in your hands......

Funny, i was thinking the same thing about you kaybee.

kaybeetoys:

At my local WalMart

Ha Ha... everyday you reveal a little more about yourself... explains your comments

"The two enemies of the people are the criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of teh Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." (Thomas Jefferson) Another one of the greatest Americans to ever live.

Gun murders, like the Obama youth look alikes commiting them,will NOT be solved by any law. Education and responsibility are the only answers. But Democrats are against both.

Skip Nichols of Oklahoma City writes:

There is a fine example of mass hysteria sweeping this nation, or at least my part of the country here in the reddest of the red (neck) states.

Gun sales are through the roof. Ammunition sales are even MORE dramatic. Nobody has any assault style weapons. Any shipment of assault weapons sells out withing hours. They have waiting lists several hundreds of names long. Wal Mart cannot keep standard ammunition on the shelves. When they get a new shipment of ammo the call goes out and by the end of the day they have sold out again. AND THAT'S AFTER LIMITING PURCHASES to a maximum of three boxes per customer!

What is wrong with this country?

NOBODY has said anything about taking away anybody's guns. Nobody has said anything about curtailing ammunition sales. Nobody has suggested doing away with or radically modifying the 2nd Amendment.

So WHY ALL THE PANIC?

What's happening to this country?

This reminds me of the Bob Dylan lyric, "Something is happening but you don't know what it is, do you Mr. Jones?"

No, I don't understand. What the hell is going on?

This panic is fueled by the NRA and the GOP, no big mystery there. But it's like the gun nuts have completely lost their minds, are they are expecting the "Zombie Apocalypse" soon or, even more disturbing, are they getting ready for a civil war?

What the hell is going on?

Is it any wonder the rest of the world things this nation has gone crazy?

Well Skip, as another Oklahoma City resident I'd like to try and answer your question.

NOBODY has said anything about taking away anybody's guns.

Yes they are - have you seen the list of guns on Diane Feinstein's proposed BAN? The word "Ban" does in fact mean "take away" guns, and her bill would require those guns to be turned over to the gov't upon the owner's death. Fat chance.

Nobody has said anything about curtailing ammunition sales.

Interesting you left out the ban on "high-capacity ammunition magazines." And yeah, some are talking about slapping a high tax on ammo to make it more difficult/expensive to buy.

Nobody has suggested doing away with or radically modifying the 2nd Amendment.

Oh, but there are plenty of people out there, including Sonya Sotomeyor, who believe DC v. Heller is wrong, and that we have no actual right to self-defense in this country. I'm going to go out on a limb here, Skip, and guess you support Roe v Wade? And do you quake with fear everytime someone puts yet another restriction on abortion, thinking this is a steady erosion of a woman's right to choose? Yeah, that's how we feel. My husband and I are one of the "gun nuts" you described; we went out of our way to purchase an AR-15, and you're correct, it was not easy. Part of the reason was to protest the fact that Diane Feinstein is trying to get this gun banned. But mostly it's because it's a really nice gun; easy to fire and easy to control, shoots both .223 and .556 ammo as well, which would make it pretty handy in case we are attacked by some crazed non-zombie person trying to kick in our front door; since you live in OKC you know this happens (recently happened to a young widow nearby) and you know what the police response time can be (22 minutes in her case). So don't begrudge a girl just wanting to defend herself AND protesting a bad piece of legislation. And if the thought of one more "gun nut" owning a AR-15 in OKC makes it harder for you to sleep at night, well, sorry 'bout that!

Michael Thompson, Charlotte, NC - I am fully aware of what can and can't be done with a printed gun. I also am not sure where you get the $20k, you can buy a printer for $2k.

http://defensedistributed.com

The only thing they can't print today is the upper or barrel components.

The point is, you will not stop anyone with these unenforceable laws. Go after the criminal, not the tools.

USMC28:

The active services members in the US military are about 1/4 the size of the current body of the NRA. Just saying.

to the gun people on this board myself included. we should prepare for a total gun ban. that is the agenda. not assault weapons or high capacity magazines. we as a country should prepare to either live somewhere else or be ready to live in a third world country. the anti gun people are being paid off and there are more joining everyday. with the total gun ban will come the total colapse of our economy. oh i know thats false because they send all their money to the NRA right. wrong. it isn't just about the gun but all the other items and things with the gun. states like colorado that have a high tourism form hunting will see their state revenue drop by 40% from no guns. stores like walmart and academy will layoff 25% of their workforce who run those areas. states wil layoff their wildlife officers since no one will be hunting. states will have to pay billions to control herds of deer and other large animals since they will be left unchecked with no hunting. i know i know they aren't after all of the guns, now. the shooter in california last week used a shotgun, is that next? virginia tech used a 9mm handgun, is that next? say what you want banning one type of gun isn't going to fix anything nor banning all of them but since that is what most americans want i believe we are going to get that. if you think living in this country is hard now, wait a few years its only going to bet better (sarcasm) by the way. welcome to the new america, were no one is free.

Hey Nik,

that president you voted for is running the US into the ground. So what if he passes gun legislation.. what about ALL THE OTHER ISSUES he's yet to do a damn thing about? This country is going south and there isn't a damn thing he's doing or going to do about it. Just a typical libtard callin everyone that doesnt agree with you a reich-wing extremist.

Cayeres,

the constant whining about guns do this and guns do that.. how bout placing the blame where it belongs. i see your just a typical libtard too. lets just lump everyone into the "gun nut" group because they dont agree with you. 32,000, and how many are gang bangin douches killin their own gang bangin douche "rivals". Personally i could care less about that, let em off themselves. I do believe tobacco and alcohol seperately kill more than that every year, so why aren't they banned? How many criminals are going to listen to more laws? your all sheep.

How bout this... all the anti-gun nut jobs go one place and all the gun nuts go to another place... lets see where the violence goes. i'll bet my bottom dollar the anti-gun nuts are dead before they even know what hit 'em. You precious police (who now and will have limited access to ammo and weapon systems to train properly on) won't help. Hell, most of 'em wont even back any proposed laws, NY is the perfect example of "feel good" legislation being passed unlawfuly and undermining law abiding citizens. Cuomo is such a tool, he has his agenda, thats been proven. god help us all, cuz this country cant.

"Rave on...the President that I voted for is in the White House and has the country's backing in passing gun control legislation."

the first part is true, they second party is false, because if it was true it would have already passed.

I would love to see a lib turn in there assault rifle because it is banned and then turn around and background check their child for the 22 they want to give them.

If someday you need a responsible gun owner on your side, who are you going to turn to, the local street gangs? They will still have the guns.

Skip---- Late last year I heard a rumor when my girlfriend and I were looking for a gun for her that if Obama is reelected that he would impose a tax on ammo making it impossible to afford and as far as taking guns away from people the headline of the Missori story one of the options they were discussing was to CONFISCATE weapons. If it works there hey lets go after semi pistols next. THen if would not be az long stretch that if it worked there lets make it national

How old are you, Caesar? Hasn't your mother taught you that you don't blame YOUR stupid behavior on someone else?

old enough to know better young enough not to care...Cute though KB...you pulled a Layton yesterday... You liberals love your 'do as i say not as i do' idiom dont you? PSSST , Bush did it...LOL

However KB, you do realize this 'gun debate' has driven the costs of ammo and guns up.. So yes that belongs to Obama, because this was his grand idea.

The Gov't that gave you the right to bare arms is that same Gov't that can take those rights away period!

0311 eh? Ok but do you know why the US exists today? As much as you far lefty commies would love this to be a modern day USSR, just aint gonna happen anytime soon. Our gov wasnt designed to oppress the people. Semper Fi

@BigT73 Go join a local militia.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/active-patriot-groups-in-the-united-states

http://www.darkgovernment.com/news/list-of-u-s-militia-groups/

There should be a group within your area, check the list above.

Maybe the President should do another Skeet shooting photo op to try to fool the press and his own party members again.

@LookingforwardtotheFuture! I don't need to retake history I'm pretty well versed in U.S history! This isn't the 1700's anymore where colonist feel they need to have guns to protect them against the tyranny of the Crown. As for those paranoid terrorist traitor militia groups, the need to be shut down I don't care if they were 250,000 of them they cannot win against the Gov't. Your right I took the oath to protect the Constitution not paranoid ignorant people who believe in conspiracy theories and disrespect the office of the POTUS! @ The Man, Majority of people who belong to the NRA aren't stupid and I am sure most of them are for gun regulation and would not have the balls to take on the Military!

@east

You missed the point. No one is going to take away any guns from anyone legally possessing them.

That's the idiot NRA/GOP talking.

No one is going to repeal or change the second amendment.

That's the idiot NRA/GOP again.

So why all the panic? It's insane.

K-B, you're right, of course. I'm just trying to understand the insanity that is abroad in this country. These people are reacting to bogeymen. None of what they fear has been suggested by the President.

I just don't get it.

The way they are doing it, the guys at WikiWeps are a lot more likely to kill themselves or someone near them when they test fire than they are to actually produce a fully functioning plastic AR-15. And I say $20,000 because that's basically the lowest price for a 3D printer that actually might be capable of doing everything you want it to do. You have to look at the higher level Objet Limited printers or 3D Systems printers to get close (and even those probably won't be able to actually replicate all of the parts correctly every time).

If your hypothetical gang wants guns that don't have just as much of a chance of leaving their hand a bloody ruin as actually firing, they aren't going to start with a $1599 baseline 3D printer.

I certainly think the intelligent voters in Illinois should elect Kelly to replace Jackson. After all, look at how the strict gun laws in her home town of Chicago have virtually eliminated shootings in that city!

@USMC28 Go look at my post above #1.73 for my rebuttal and I know for a fact you will not be able to counter it.

The 9th and 10th Amendments puts STRONG restrictions on what the Federal can or cannot do.

Unorganized militia groups are legal under law:

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C13.txt

You're oath is to the people first, not the POTUS.

USMC28 - Being the military person you are, how willing would you be to start firing on American's because the president said so? The military folks I have talked to have all resoundingly said "Hell No!"

Michael Thompson, Charlotte, NC - You are in denial. $2k, MakerBot. They took down their instructions on how to print weapons because the were indeed viable. I have my finger on the pulse of 3d printing technology, you will not win this argument.

This technology took off about 6 months ago and currently they have everything but the barrel. Do you think you can stifle the progress of this new industry?

Your right I took the oath to protect the Constitution not paranoid ignorant people who believe in conspiracy theories and disrespect the office of the POTUS!

well Mr Well versed in US history, you will also see that the 2nd Amend (part of the US CONSTITUTION) states ...the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed". Or on those yellow footsteps you pick and chose which amends to defend. Spoken like a liberal.

BTW the S.C. (Judicial Branch) upholds the 2nd Amendment.

For the record the 2nd Amendment protected no one from the crown. The Patriots of this nation were considered traitors to the King of England. You think they would have not included the second amendendment upon the success of the Revolutionary War. DOH...Thanks for calling the founding fathers dumazzes

Kaybeetoys

A houseful of guns is a liability. They must be stored, cleaned, kept from the kids...

Far more trouble than a beanie baby collection.

Beanie babies are extremely protective of your family when an intruder breaks into your house aren't they?

How old are you, Caesar? Hasn't your mother taught you that you don't blame YOUR stupid behavior on someone else?

Please tell your liberal friends to stop blaming Bush for Obama's stupid behavior.

@Morgan I would never fire on any U.S citizen just because the POTUS says so that is a dumb comment! I am all for the people not the $$$ making NRA or any fake group who don't know crap about the history of this country called the Teaparty! @Ceasar and what part did you not understand of the 2nd where it said in order to maintain a well regulated Militia did you not get. These Militia groups aren't regulated we have the National Guard for that! Like I said this isn't the 1700's anymore! LMAO you saying I called the founding fathers dumb azzez, spoken like a true coward teabagger!

LookingForwardtotheFuture whats wrong did that put some clouds in your sunshine and rainbow filled future. i don't need to join i will turn mine in when they come for them. a ban just gives them a way to add guns to it as they see fit. once that is on the books they can add to it as they see fit. today its assault weapons tomorrow handguns, then rifles then shotguns. total gun ban. am i wrong maybe, but i dont think so and aparently not many others think so either. there isn't a bright rosey future out there, just more of this same country dividing now headway making crap. enjoy your day.

You can cry, moan, vote, and write all of the vitriol you want, one world order is coming whether you like it or not unless you fight (as in fight, kill, and die) to stop it.

Dems want to wipe out our rights to bear arms yet are employing thousands of drones across the US without letting taxpayers know of their purpose.

[Obama's own words foreshadow his desire to be socialistic/communistic state. Forward is another word used by Communist Labor parties in the early 20th century.]

caesar, you're a tool. A paranoid little tool. Maybe you and Lil Michelle can get together...I'm sure, between the two of you, your combined IQ's will break 100.

USMC28

@Morgan I would never fire on any U.S citizen just because the POTUS says so that is a dumb comment

Then why the @!$%# you cocking off about how people are no match for the military? The military are made of people like you. They won't fire on their own. Kent St.? Really? This is where you point out where the military will act against its own?

I could be in denial. There could be more people who have made them and then sat on the end product. But you know the culture as well as I do. If more people had made parts that worked consistently, there would be a heck of a lot more chest-thumping youtube videos to demonstrate they did it.

But you may be right. It may end up being cheaper than I'm believing it will be. But I still maintain that it's a pretty huge investment of time and energy - time and energy and dedication to learning how to do it that your typical gangbanging thugs aren't going to demonstrate. And simply making it harder to get guns will save lives. Just about every place where the culture of owning guns never set in shows us that.

If you goal is to reduce violent crime, the focus should be on criminal control, the drug trade and gangs. If you want to take away guns lets have a vote on repealing the second amendment. After you lose on that you may want to consider banning family deterioration, lack of education, lack of respect for law and human life and you know, those inner city issues that no one wants to talk about for fear of the race card.

The way things are looking, it may come down to the pro gun vs. the anti gun freaks. May get interesting before it is over with.

Michael Thompson, Charlotte, NC - You are correct, it isn't simple, yet. But once the engineers are done tweaking it the drawings will be available and you just click to print.

A one time purchase of $2k to be able to print unlimited guns? That would be pretty appetizing even for the most unmotivated crook.

The purpose of the NRA is to get all of us to forget that guns come from gun manufacturers. They do not materialize out of thin air.

Neither does Chili Powder just 'materialize out of thin air' -

An ingredient which was recently used to murder an infant daughter of the killer's boyfriend - look that one up!. Didn't want the kid in the way so she gave her a tsp of Chili Powder - closed her windpipe up and she was gone!

Guns do NOT create the desire to kill, and no intelligent person can debate to the contrary. Someone has to WANT to kill before they decide which weapon to use, whether it be a gun.. or a car.. or a fist... or chili powder. You see, the problem isn't weapons.. Almost anything can be used as a weapon... So why wasn't there a NATIONAL CALL for the ban of 'box cutters' after 9/11?? We should be banning and punishing criminals.

The purpose of the NRA is, among many other things, to protect your Constitutional Right to protect yourself and your liberty... perhaps even from a tyranical government who might one day tell you that you can't purchase a carbonated beverage over 16oz.

Really?? I've heard about this farce called the "War on Drugs" but the war on Soft Drinks? You don't think the same mentality that created that non-sense wouldn't come up with something a little more sinister over time?

Looking forward to the Future.....

Not exactly. We have rights by virtue of our humanity...we have been "endowed by our creator"... so only God may take these rights away. But God didn't write the constitution, men did. And just because men have said that God gave us the right doesn't mean men can't change their minds and amend the constitution. In fact, the point under discussion concerns the 2nd AMENDMENT.

As for the 200,000 malitia members.... Boy! That sure fills me with confidence! I personally have no problem with anyone checking my background prior to my buying fire arms. In fact, my back ground has been checked several times just for that reason and I have never been denied. One of the reasons I am glad I have those guns has to do with some of those 200,000 self righteous yahoos that have decided that they need to protect the vast majority from a government and military that has been duly authorized by the people.

I love it when you left wing nut jobs try and dessimate the constitution because your true colors are revealed. Please continue to take away my guns you idiots. Each time you press this issue it is one less vote for your liberal agenda.

What we need is a gun that shoots beanie babies at all of those home invaders.

@campdog Not sure what you are referring to?:

"Not exactly."

And yes, you are correct the 2nd can be repealed by majority vote I believe.

It has already been said but let me say it again. Criminals do not care which laws they break. New gun laws will only mean something to law abiding citizens and any new gun law will only limit the ability of law abiding citizens to protect themselves against criminals. So are all Democrates against law abiding citizen's rights to protect themselves? It appears so.

campdog,

Democracy should be more than two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.

I guess failure to use logic and common sense is why the party is changing. MAYBE THERE WOULD BE LESS GUNS DEATHS IF THERE WERE LESS GANGS. I bet $ that gangs will still kill people even if they cannot get a gun. If you want to get rid of gangs, get rid of their food source or money supply. The only way they exist is do the the insane profit margin that illegal drugs allow. Outlaw guns and you just gave them ANOTHER product to sell to make even more $ from you f***ing morons. They deal in illegal goods ALL THE TIME. Guess who odds wise will end up will an illegal gun? THE CRIMINALS MORONS.

I guess Joe Biden's wife has never shot an AR before because I bet any amount of money that she would prefer to shot an AR over a double barreled shotgun ANY day. A non-semi automatic (the reloading mechanism REDUCES felt recoil btw) 12 gauge shotgun produces at least 17 to 18 up to 50 or 60 foot pounds of energy depending on the load and weight of the gun compared to 3 to 4 pounds for an AR in .223. People start to develop a permanent "flinch" at 18 to 20 foot pounds due to the recoil. Most shotguns are bigger, heavier and longer too compared to an AR making it easier for his wife to carry, aim, and shot since you STILL HAVE TO AIM with a shotgun. Even if old Joe got her a semi-automatic assault shotgun that did not kick as much the AR would still be a better choice imo for her.

Technology has advanced like is loves to do and unless you are shooting at fast moving flying objects a shotgun is OLD tech. It still does an outstanding job at that, but instead of shooting a bunch of individual pellets to do more damage today we shot one bullet at a much higher velocity that then fragments into smaller pieces once it HITS the target. Only a moron or someone who hates his wife would give them the gun with least amount of rounds and with the most recoil. Only a moron would pick a gun with 2 rounds compared to a gun that holds 30 rounds and has 1/4 of the recoil, simple logic. The same gun (AR) can also shoot out to 300-400 yards with the SAME ammo, sites/optics as well as defend your house. If you only have one gun then an AR is hard to beat when the prices for them are normal.

Military weapons ARE NOT SEMI-AUTOMATIC ONLY. Most have a select fire switch that lets them toggle between semi-automatic (to save ammo or for long range) and either fully automatic or a three round burst. I cannot buy one without expensive permits and 99% of all ARs in civilian hands are just semi-automatic. I would love to have a 3 round burst option on my AR however, but can live without full auto and is why my AR is not a "military" weapon. My gun would not meet military specs anyway, it just fires the same cartridge/round that they do, and looks like them. Do I even have to mention the logistical advantage that it gives our military in case of invasion if our citizens have the same ammo and guns? Maybe we would not need to spend so much on defense. Maybe you could fix the economy? Maybe you could get rid of gangs instead of wasting my and others time with this BS about pointless gun control that will hardly save any lives at all since people will just use the NEXT BEST TOOL MORONS. MAYBE FIX WHY THEY WANTED TO HARM SOMEONE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The vast majority of people are "good" people. WTF do you want to punish them for? Why are you treating them like criminals or ticking time bombs? How does a woman defend herself and her children against 2 or 3 men that are larger and stronger again? Guns are here to stay since anyone can make a gun out of pipes or can make a bomb for f***s sake.

Is this what We Americans need?? 2nd Amend rights tossed Out, NO One except cops have any type of Weapons, skies filled with cop's and homeland security drones Spying On US ALL THE TIME, half of them armed with the New HomeFire Mini Missiles to wipe out citizens HERE who complain about the great smoke and mirrors power ecehelon, The US Corporations, to whom ALL the public servants bow down to and "serve and protect", Yeeaaa Sure!! Serve The Evil Rich and their corporations and protect their Ill gotten Blood Money. Americans are looked upon as mindless and obedient sheep; Are You???????? At $5.00 p/g gas refined from AMERICAN TAXPAYER OWNED CRUDE and Exploited on the World Free Market; Exxon executive given $40,000,000 * CASH* Bonus, Americans Given THE BONER In Congress And We don't have a say about Our property, JUST SHUT UP AND PAY!! You Like That??????????? Did You get a gander at "the Homeland Security Agents" being armed to the hilt as they Try to STRIP AWAY our "well regulated Militia" FireArms? THEY ARE STREET THUGS, KILLERS WITH pasted on badges and guns stuck in their waist bands who will Kill AnyOne they are ordered to with No trial or Day In court. You Like That???? Sounds Like What That Little Sack Of $H!T adam lanza did AND COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED by A National HealthCare Psychiatric OutReach Team. Hell, after checking Lanza and his disallutioned mom, they'd Both be Locked up in a Newly Opened Mental Hospital. You Anti Gun NUTTY people want to Lock Up America's Guns, Except, of course, for the Badged criminals OK!!!!!!!!!!! Lock Up The NutJobs First!! With An American Universal National HealthCare System And A WELL REGULATED Psychiatric OutReach Division with "Examine and Retain" authority LIKE OUR SANE ALLYS HAVE..It is Amazing how some of you AntiGun Nutties SelfRighteously turn your Empty Heads to What is REALLY WRONG In America...THE FAULT OF CONGRESS: 20% Unemployment, $4.00Take Home Pay for our kids YET $4.00++p/g of gas And So On, And So On.... For All You AntiGun Nutties...PULLEEEZE look at which way the wind is blowing...'Cause this violence Won't Stop..Ban Knives, Basball Bats, Crickett Batts, Frozen Leg Of Lamb, Table Lamps, Heavy ashtrays and Most Importantly Crooked Politicians on Crapital Hill.....More To Come...

I blow my whistle and an insignificant undesirable shows up...she knows who she is...Caesar still has his power LOL...

Too bad the brooklyn zoo escapee cant defend the ban 'assault weapons' (whats an assault weapon again?) mantra. But it sounds cool because King Hussein says so

As for what the organization should be called: It should be called "Mayors Against Liberty (MAL.)" They don't care about citizen deaths. Even if you took guns away from murderers (fat chance) they would kill by other means. Leaving the rhetoric aside, this is a step toward taking away all liberties, toward a totalitarian state enforced by a military that will continue to have all the "banned" weapons. Those in power don't want the public to have any say. To get what they want, they have to take away both guns and the ballot box. They can trick people into giving up their guns. After that, it will be easy to take away the ballot box by decree because there will be no recourse.

Cayers,

Let's get one thing straight. 32,000 people may die from gunshots, but of that roughly 21,000 are self-inflicted. Pretty much every expert agrees that someone that is going to kill themselves will do so with or without a gun. Please note that there are over 35,000 suicides a year and over 1,000,000 attempted suicides a year. What we hear about are the roughly 10,000 illegal use (or Homicide) of firearms a year. Mostly drug or gang related. 54% committed by minorities, 45% by whites. FBI Uniform Crime Report is a good place to find homicide information, but it does lack one thing. All the murders from Chicago.

Steven B said "The NRA is a Place to learn firearms safety"!~ The Department of Justice says gun owners suck at gun safety. They conducted a study about Gun Storage in the US and concluded that "Most privately owned guns in the US are kept unlocked and most of the locked guns are poorly locked either because owners use flimsy locks or because unauthorized users know where the keys of the locks are or know the combination of the safe. Most of the offenders are either NRA members or have received some sort of gun safety training, This study concludes the gun safety trainings failed to encourage gun owners to properly lock their guns because the trainers, at the same time, assured trainees that guns are safe, fun weapons erasing the necessary fear needed to promote effective gun safety skills".

I'm not an NRA member, but here's a list of my security measures to protect my 34 firearms.

-32 video cameras around my property with digital recording offsite.

-Security system with every window and door monitored, motion sensors, and glass break sensors.

-Steel doors concealled in wood vener with steel frames

-Safe room-Consists of steel reinforced floor, walls, and ceiling with ventilation system, and steel door protected by numeric and biometric lock.

-Inside my safe room I have 3 identical safes to hold my weapons and ammo. Those cost $8,500 each and all have numeric and biometric locks.

-In the master bedroom we have hidden quick access wall safes on either side of the bed which holds a 12 gauge in each and Glock 22 in each. 3 mags a piece for the glock totals 45 rounds of .40 cal protection rounds, and 50 rounds each of 12 guage protection rounds.

-In my office I have a numeric and biometric pistol safe which holds a 1911 with three mags and a Glock 22 with three mags.

I may be a little over the top, but it's people like me that get's vilified by our President and his administration, and all their followers. Not once do they mention that gang violence and drugs are the root cause of the illegal use of firearms in this country. No, they just want to go after the 99%, becuase they know they can't do anything about the people that won't follow the law.

The Syrians getting killed everyday by their own government has a ratio of 3 guns per 100 people. The US has 88 guns per 100 people. The US people can still defend themselves, but the Syrians pretty much can't. I don't want to someday be them.

BTW, Joe Biden said yesterday for women to go out and buy a shotgun. I listened to his entire speech about how he tells Jill to just shoot twice. Maybe I and many others should take his advice and go get and go get a shotgun.

What does the Second Amendment and religion have in common? They are both antiquated concepts which are craftily used by free-market ophidians to sculpt the minds of people who are predisposed to paranoia for the purpose of convincing them to stuff cash into the pockets of their masters.

Michael Bloomberg is a man who used his money and power to change the laws in N.Y.C so he could have a third term as Mayor. He should not be involved in another states election process. If you all believe he is being altruistic he is not he wants to run for President. He believes his money can buy anything.

casear

and dozens of other channels proclaiming he is the Savior of Mankind...Point douche bag

Okay dummy, point out 1 news channel other than FOX that proclaim "Obama is the savior of mankind" and then after you do that, show us the link that proves it. Video Clip or something...

I bet, this dumbass "Casear" can't back it up with a video or source that shows any news organization calling Obama the Savior of Mankind. Only a right wing nutcase such as yourself would Proclaim such non-sense.

USMC28, say hello to Stolen Valor. They may be checking up on you. My guess is at best you are a boot camp washout and at worst you are a fraud who never served in the Corps.

My apologies if i'm wrong. Perhaps you just got hit in the head with a pugil stick one too many times.

Casear,

Still waiting on that Source that shows all these news channels calling Obama "The savior of mankind".

tick tock...

Gee, I guess it needs to be said again. Aren't ALL guns already banned in Chicago? So...what's the point of endorsing a candidate who is going to try to pass legislation to outlaw more guns, when guns are already outlawed in their backyard. Don't ANY of you liberals understand this??? Just another democratic "feel good" law that will accomplish NOTHING. But then again, you all voted for another feel good, do nothing guy for POTUS, so apparantly you just don't have a clue.

don97524 Comment collapsed by the community

Brute

There is no doubt that the NRA protects the Second Amendment and it is their right to do so. However, they have also been successful at blocking more effective background checks and blocking enforcement of current gun laws and, as a result, they have assisted criminals to own guns.

The proposed gun laws are directed at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, not out of the hands of law abiding citizens. How about a little cooperation?

What kind of background checks will be more effective?

Blocking enforcement of current gun laws? Really? Please explain that gem.

The proposed gun laws will keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, we are the ones that obey the law, it's right there in the term "law abiding citizens", criminals do not obey laws, that's why we call them criminals.

How about a little common sense, once you find it come back and show you deserve cooperation.

hey 797, Tingly Legs Matthews ring a bell? YOu act like the leftist media doesnt fawn over King Hussein....Delussional jack ass 797. you fvcking pvssies worship that empty suit like he's Thulsa Doom. Eat me Flava Flave.

TheMan-1285490

kaybeetoys:

At my local WalMart

Ha Ha... everyday you reveal a little more about yourself... explains your comments.

So sorry to disappoint you, but I do not shop at WalMart. I telephoned their sporting goods department to ask if you gunners would be able to return your weapons once you realized what a dumb idea it was to go out and buy up all the guns. They cannot be returned.

Guns are forever.

you fvcking pvssies worship that empty suit like he's Thulsa Doom...

Tsk, tsk, Caesar. Your jealousy is getting out of hand. Whatsa matter...nobody's worshipping you?

caesar... Maybe you and Lil Michelle can get together...I'm sure, between the two of you, your combined IQ's will break 100.

That's very generous of you, Mickey. Personally, I'm not so sure about that.

casear,

hey 797, Tingly Legs Matthews ring a bell?

You just prove how stupid your little silly ass really is. You said other news media called Obama the "Savior of Mankind". So what the hell does that have to do with Chris matthews saying he got a tingly feeling up his leg. I ask your dumbass to show me 1 news channel that said "Obama is the Savior of Mankind". And the only thing you can come up with is Chris Matthews having some tingly feeling about Obama. You are 1 sick f!ck!!

Get Real 2011

Gee, I guess it needs to be said again. Aren't ALL guns already banned in Chicago? So...what's the point of endorsing a candidate who is going to try to pass legislation to outlaw more guns, when guns are already outlawed in their backyard. Don't ANY of you liberals understand this???

Please, get real or call yourself something else.

I guess it needs to be said again. The guns in Chicago are brought in illegally from outside the city. Same for NYC. So... what's the point of having different laws from one place to another? Don't any of you conservatives understand why we need universal gun laws???

What a ridiculous diatribe! Seriously! Here's a simple solution (and I say this because I definitively believe in having the right to bear arms): The U.S. Government and State Gavernments should allow free access to background data for firearms sellers. Then, require background checks on all sales of any firearm, private and commercial. If the private, or commercial, seller fails to complete the simple task of following the guidelines of completing the check and determining whom they may sell to, and then if the firearm is used in a crime of any sort, the seller will also be liable. If the seller has his paperwork in order, then he/she's off the hook. Simple. I wouldn't sell any of my firearms to someone who may either be a criminal or off their rocker. The problem is, I can't determine that as a private seller. I can sell to whomever I please without any repercusions, Currently, this opens the door for sellers to find the highest bidder (who may have criminal intent) and sell to them. Seriously! This is so logically simple and the data is already there (currently being accessed by commercial sellers). Sorry, but this argument from both sides (of either, I'm gladly not a part of) is moronic. Have we really come to a time in the U.S. where there is no comprimise?

Gun violence will be defeated with education. When we learn to empower our children and youth with education that gives them self-respect and honor we will conquer the violence. It starts in the home. It's a mantra that we must embrace in our schools. We have 7000 dropouts in American schools everyday. We demand our government teach our children because many of us are to lazy to be a good role model for our children. For children over the age of 14 in American schools: 36% of boys drop out of school, 28% of girls drop out of school. We have work to do in America. It will not be Washington, the Democrats or Republicans that fix the violence and bullying. It will be us as individuals. Tomorrow when you wake up, look in the mirror and tell yourself; "Today and every day from now on, by my own personal example, I am going to help a young person stay in school." The reward will be infinite.

Eat me Flava Flave.

What the hell is that suppose to mean. Flava flave, are you trying to say I'm Black or something. With your flava flav comment I guess you got something against blacks. Thats nothing new, coming from some right wing nut bashing Obama everyday of the week. And they wonder why we called these idiots racists all the time.

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
New York high school.

Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az

What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado

What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or

What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
Roberts is the only one that I haven't heard about being on drugs of some kind

But yeah....it's the gun's fault.

New argument, same style. What do you think?:

Lets ban gangs. Gangs are bad. Gangs are violent. Gangs commit crimes. It is time for a ban on them. No gang colors, no gang signs, no gang graffiti, no tattoos since they are used to mark members, no gang music or music that promotes gang activities.

Who cares about the the first amendment, the right to assemble, the right to expression. Those were only put in because of British rule, the government isn't going to stop non-gang related activities, besides 'It's for the kids'.

Perhaps more people should look up the term "Constitutional Republic".

A dynamic Democracy, some people seem to want, is nothing but mob rule.

I appreciate both the ACLU & the NRA for defending the Constitution.

The Democratic Party went into hiding years ago......the party is The PROGRESSIVE PARTY.

Just think, self-proclaimed "Modern Day Progressive" Mrs. Clinton is so proud of this accomplishment.

Yep, the Progressives are about to implode during elections because of their support for this administration's policies and Gun Control is only ONE ISSUE.

Time for Mr. Obama to go On the Road Again to smooth some ruffled feathers.

What the hell is that suppose to mean. Flava flave

do you see KKK members behind every corner..you said tick tock Flava....not my fault you're not too quick on the uptake...

hey KB, Yeah Monkey (mIckey) is my pet rock. she follows me everywhere. as for jealous of being worshipped, not in the slightest. But you try KB and the best you were to come up with was commenting on the part about worship. Maybe you and Monkey can get together and play bukaki? I hear monkey likes to be the 'shamed' one

[Tsk, tsk, Caesar. Your jealousy is getting out of hand. Whatsa matter...nobody's worshipping you?]

Poor Commodus, nobody likes him...it's OK GraniteBoy, you still have me. I got your back, Burning Man...

[With your flava flav comment I guess you got something against blacks.]

Of course he does...he's a bigot. Thats why his pet name for me is "monkey".

Poor "caesar" has no friends, not even on-line ones.

Say it with me:

FAIL! caesar...

FAIL! caesar...

FAIL! caesar...

Well said AK. You might add they came from very Liberal homes. I might add to other comments on this page if I may.
I live in Springfield, Illinois we recently overturned The state's ban on carrying concealed weapons. So we have a law legalizing concealed carry. So this Robin Kelly is going to make Chicago safer? Jesse Jackson couldn't do it, Rahm isn't doing it! Kelly will pick up right where Jesse left off, robbing from the taxpayers for her own personal wealth! Nothing that comes out of Chicago are honest politicians. Look what is in the Whitehouse. Val Jarrett big slum lord, who stole from Illinois taxpayers.
What does Bloomberg have to do with my state's elections. He has enough to deal with in Manatten out of his rich penthouse.
I agree his "brilliant move on the 16 ounce drink" has him busy saving Diabetes. Now he has moved on to styrofoam cups. Pardon me but WTF? We need to keep our guard up on these usurpers for they are destroying our freedom, right before our eyes. And I am sorry for the person who commented on Religion and the Constitution being money grabbers. You Sir are Wrong! I believe in both. One day you will realize in your folly how important both are.
I for one will bear arms against tyranny coming our way. When the government give up their arms then so will I!!!

Byron Raum: - "Can you explain to us what Socialism is? And also, the differences between socialism and communism?"

Definition of SOCIALISM

1 -: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2 -a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property

b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3 -: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

See Chrysler for one example of our government testing the State ownership waters.

Another possible interpretation of socialism / communism-
Taking money from the people who earn it and giving it to people who don't.

"The first step toward true socialism is disarming the populace."

rockymtnroustabout

My personnal idea of gun control would be the following: line up every republican and murder the phony SOBs.

@!$%#ing priceless!! I'm saving that.

Byron Raum

What would you like to discuss? How about Charles Fourier, Henri De Saint-Simon or Robert Owen version of Socialism which prescribed a non coercive community of people working non competitively for the spiritual and physical well being or maybe Marx and Engels version as the transitional start to communism. How about a discussion about communism where there is NO private property and all goods are owned by the state and are available to everyone as needed. Maybe we can discuss Marxist or Stalinist or Maoism or Eurocommunist.

Maybe YOU can explain the strengths and weakness of each and explain to us why we should not have to fear our move in that direction. For a start you might want to talk to someone who escaped that form of government and moved here to better themselves.

YOU ON THE FREAKING CLOCK.

What has been a Big Pharmaceutical Corporations FIELD DAY is America's Nightmares. These "psychiatric management drugs" are a dangerous and VERY PROFITABLE Scam by Big Pharma AS they got their ROLLOVER LOWLY Poiliticians in state and federal congress to CLOSE DOWN Federal and State Mental Hospitals so they can peddle their worthless and dangerous wares. Now, Is this what We Americans need?? 2nd Amend rights tossed Out, NO One except cops have any type of Weapons, skies filled with cop's and homeland security drones Spying On US ALL THE TIME, half of them armed with the New HomeFire Mini Missiles to wipe out citizens HERE who complain about the great smoke and mirrors power ecehelon, The US Corporations, to whom ALL the public servants bow down to and "serve and protect", Yeeaaa Sure!! Serve The Evil Rich and their corporations and protect their Ill gotten Blood Money. Americans are looked upon as mindless and obedient sheep; Are You???????? At $5.00 p/g gas refined from AMERICAN TAXPAYER OWNED CRUDE and Exploited on the World Free Market; Exxon executive given $40,000,000 * CASH* Bonus, Americans Given THE BONER In Congress And We don't have a say about Our property, JUST SHUT UP AND PAY!! You Like That??????????? Did You get a gander at "the Homeland Security Agents" being armed to the hilt as they Try to STRIP AWAY our "well regulated Militia" FireArms? THEY ARE STREET THUGS, KILLERS WITH pasted on badges and guns stuck in their waist bands who will Kill AnyOne they are ordered to with No trial or Day In court. You Like That???? Sounds Like What That Little Sack Of $H!T adam lanza did AND COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED by A National HealthCare Psychiatric OutReach Team. Hell, after checking Lanza and his disallutioned mom, they'd Both be Locked up in a Newly Opened Mental Hospital. You Anti Gun NUTTY people want to Lock Up America's Guns, Except, of course, for the Badged criminals OK!!!!!!!!!!! Lock Up The NutJobs First!! With An American Universal National HealthCare System And A WELL REGULATED Psychiatric OutReach Division with "Examine and Retain" authority LIKE OUR SANE ALLYS HAVE..It is Amazing how some of you AntiGun Nutties SelfRighteously turn your Empty Heads to What is REALLY WRONG In America...THE FAULT OF CONGRESS: 20% Unemployment, $4.00Take Home Pay for our kids YET $4.00++p/g of gas And So On, And So On.... For All You AntiGun Nutties...PULLEEEZE look at which way the wind is blowing...'Cause this violence Won't Stop..Ban Knives, Basball Bats, Crickett Batts, Frozen Leg Of Lamb, Table Lamps, Heavy ashtrays and Most Importantly Crooked Politicians on Crapital Hill.....More To Come...

I find it amazing that the people in Washington are all talking about punishing the citizens for what criminals are doing. I have heard the President and congressmen and Senators yell about taking our guns but never have I heard anything from them about protecting our constitutional right and go after the criminals that are breaking the laws with the guns.

All you need to do is go back to our first president and see what he has to say about the right to bear arms. His words are, "Every citizen should not only have arms but a good supply of ammunition to help the state protect its rights from the federal government". Hmmm, so maybe our rights to have weapons have nothing to do with self defense or to protect us from the criminal element (although they sure do help), they were never given to us for the right to hunt for food but rather to keep the government in check knowing that if they seize too much power then a armed citizenship could rise up and take back the power rightfully given to us by the constitution.

Bottom lie is, while it is a terrible thing that criminals have used these tools to take lives, cars are a tool and have taken many more lives then any gun ever has, so where is the law taking away cars. There have been more deaths due to stabbings, so where is the law to take away knifes. And while we are at it, how many people are dying because of obesity, maybe while Washington is at it they should take away silverware because over-eating is killing people.

If we keep going down this path of allowing the government to keep taking rights away from us because we are scared, then we may as well follow the path Germany did prior to WW2 and give up right after right until there are non left then do not bother crying when the government starts hauling undesirables in train cars to holding pens to get rid of people.

If you are not willing to stand up for your rights then you do not deserve them. Paraphrased from a speech that Eisenhower gave while president.

Linda, if the time ever does come in this country when we feel threatened by the hand of tyranny, I would want you on my side, even though we may differ on the finer points. You are a respectful defender of freedom.

Debbie Halvorson (the only white candidate running in this multi-candidate field).

WHAT???????? If this was said the other way around naming the only BLACK candidate....nothing racist there huh? In other words......vote for the BLACK guy?

Tbenton, criminals are scarey and the politicians don't want to anger them. Law abiding citizens on the other hand will bitch and complain and, hopefully, vote different the next go around.

casear,

you said tick tock Flava....not my fault you're not too quick on the uptake...

Sure, sure, try and cover it up. Out of all the things that could be reference to tick tock, you came up with Flava flav. Don't be a little coward, we know you're a bigot, I just wanted to see if you admit it.

And you still have not shown us which news station Publicly said "Obama is the Savior of Mankind"

Why do we need police? Criminals are going to commit crime anyway whether we have police or not.

chris-2252558

And how are those bans working on under age drinking going for your kids? I bet they are out still getting booze and drinking and driving with all those restriction on how to get alcohol!!! Like any of those bans will do anything to keep criminals from getting guns!!

The drinking laws stop SOME kids. It stops SOME parents from providing drinks to minors and therefor saves SOME lives. The proposed gun bans will prevent guns from getting to SOME that have criminal intent or have mental conditions that might affect their judgement of use.

So, in your mind, "SOME" lives saved isn't good enough?

Hello folks, for those that are antigun and want to redefine or just define what rights the second amenment affords law abiding citizens there is a process to change or alter the second amendment. By all means start the process.

Democrats want woman to be raped, they want them to defen themsef pissing, vomitinf because woman can't use a gun , they freak out and can kill inocent people.

What about that ladies.

“And you don’t know if you feel like you’re gonna be raped, or if you feel like someone’s been following you around or if you feel like you’re in trouble when you may actually not be, that you pop out that gun and you pop… pop a round at somebody,” Joe Salazar (D) Colorado

Tbenton

I find it amazing that the people in Washington are all talking about punishing the citizens for what criminals are doing.

I guess you could look at it that way. Personally, I would want to know what I could do to help the loss of life caused by AR16s or high capacity clips... even if it only saves a number of lives you consider incremental or insignificant or not worth the trouble.

Cars are regulated to maximize safety... they are not regulated based on their relative danger versus a knife or a gun or a pencil. Your argument is a straw man and is completely irrelevant. Guns should be regulated to maximize public safety while providing reasonable access to weapons that fulfill the 2nd Amendment intent. All that's being considered is to draw the line between overkill and reasonable at a place that seems much more reasonable. Stinger missiles are banned... as are RPG's. So should AR-15 Assault rifles be banned. Besides, why do you need something labeled "assault" in your closet? Is the thrill of target shooting worth the "incremental" deaths?

I think not.

oskar-1391552

Democrats want woman to be raped, they want them to defen themsef pissing, vomitinf because woman can't use a gun , they freak out and can kill inocent people.

Kind of a foolish statement, don't you think? The FACTS say that a woman about to be raped seldom has a gun. And any reasonable person would not think that having an AR-15 would stop a rape any better than a hand gun. A woman can carry a hand gun with a conceal-and-carry license... but you are correct, she would be less likely to be raped if she were openly carrying an AR-15. She might also have trouble finding a date as well.

This is a mirage the myth of excessive gun violence perpetrated by the democratic party and their news outlets like NBC. Most gun violence happens in very, very small sections of big cities to people that most people don't care about anyway. Look around folks 99.9% of you don't have a problem near you its a huge myth. The only murderers you know is the woman next door who had an abortion. Your far more likely to die in a car wreck or have you hospital or doctor accidentally kill you. Military looking guns account for minuscule crimes. We already have a enough gun laws.

Now if were talking violating the constitution lets do it to the least amount people that would be effected. Instead of violating the 2nd amendment and violatingthe rights of legal gun owners or about half the country. I say we violate the 4th amendment and lock down crummy gang invested neighborhoods in big cities. Drag these people out the their homes search them and their homes from top to bottom. We then start taking kids away from the crummy parents whose kids become gang members and sterilize the rest. Maybe in a generation we can rid ourselves of most of the problem people.

Next we lock up the mentally ill like we used too. We then investigate the legally prescribed drugs that all of these mass shooter types are on and see if there is a correlation to violence.

Next big cities seem to be a problem, stacking people like cord wood seems to do funny things to people. Start moving jobs all over the country break up big concentrations of people.

This country was founded on principals of freedom. Looking around lately it sure looks like a bunch of authoritarians like Bloomberg, Emmanual, and our King who cant stand that the constitution places limit on what government can do. The founding fathers were brilliant men who looked at the world and saw a bunch of tyrants and thought we dont want to live like that. They then created the greatest most generous country the world has ever seen. The 3 branches of government limit overbearing by anyone branch. The 2nd amendment is the 4th branch an the armed populace that keeps the government honest. That's what the 2nd amendment was about it's not about hunting with you single shot shotgun.

TrustVerify

Hello folks, for those that are antigun and want to redefine or just define what rights the second amenment affords law abiding citizens there is a process to change or alter the second amendment. By all means start the process.

Does the right to bear arms include RPG's? Stinger missiles? Hand grenades? 50 caliber machine guns? AR-15's?

I guess that since the 2nd Amendment doesn't specify what "arms" means or is limited to, an atomic bomb could be in the mix?

Our country decided long ago to draw a line between public safety and the right to bear arms. The line now being considered doesn't infringe on the 2nd amendment, it just recognizes a few weapons that threaten public safety and that provide little practical additional personal safety.

No?

Just a suggestion for Chicago. Take the guns away from the criminals and when you put them in Jail....KEEP THEM THERE! Stop all the plea bargaining and letting criminals out after they serve 10% of their sentence of early parole. It's like a revolving door on the prisons there. I'm waiting to see just how much of his 38 years that Peterson will actually serve in prison....my bet is 10 years at the most. After all he's a cop and you know about them.....

Jim -768838

This is a mirage the myth of excessive gun violence perpetrated by the democratic party and their news outlets like NBC. Most gun violence happens in very very small sections of big cities to people that most people don't care about anyway.

Read your intro again and tell us why anyone should read the rest of your post..

"to people that most people don't care about anyway"?

Tell me. Do Republicans consider that statement as supporting American values and/or the very constitution they pretend to honor so highly?

So the liberal gun-grabbers want to check you out before you buy a gun (which I agree with) but they don't want to check you out before you vote. Very disturbing inconsistency!!

Caesar Augustus-

There's elements of either of our political parties in there and elements of neither political party. Either way, you can't conveniently say that a single American political party is fascist

I never said that, might want to address the original person who claimed republicans are fascists. Since Fascism isn't a current political philosophy in practice anywhere good luck labeling anyone that. However Socialism/Communism is unfortunately still practiced throughout the world. Obama's own words foreshadow his desire to be socialistic/communistic state. Forward is another word used by Communist Labor parties in the early 20th century.

#1.91

I find it hilarious how few people truly understand Fascism, as Political and Economic theory. Or maybe I should say sad. Most confuse it with Nazism, which is then confused with Racism, which is confused with Eugenics, Antisemitism, and Nationalism.

Not that I am saying you are Caesar. Others in the room most certainly are though.

Fascism at its base is a combination of Capitalism(Private Ownership and Control) and Communism (State Ownership and Control) which leaves mostly Private Ownership, with State Control.

With the advent of the ACA, one can easily see, now, the Fascist nature under which our Federal Government has been operating since FDR. BTW, FDR was/is a big fan of Fascism, and told both Hitler and Mussolini as much. He also lamented being constrained by the Constitution, even though he stacked it with Federalist Judges. Beginning with the disarmament of the people with the 1934 FCA and the creation of the the OASDI, in 1935. Medicare in 1965.

I would have to disagree with you that "Fascism isn't a current political philosophy". It is alive and growing Right here in river city.

Well marc the point is only pretty white faces make the issue. Gun violence has been happening in inner cities for a long time not much crying about it. Now a white school gets shot up its a story. Your also assuming I'm Republican which I'm not. I dare say I bet you dont have a problem with gun violence in your neighborood and you believe the myth thats its overwhelming the country which its not.

When are you anti-gun people going to realise that getting rid of semi-automatic military style weapons has nothing to do with criminals. Criminals don't need a military style weapon to commit their crimes. The only reason their is, is all the insane people out there, in which many are your own fault. We do not provide good treatment for the mental people in our society. I also doubt that once this whole gun debate gets settled and restrictions are put in place, that anyone is going to even do anything to help the mental people.

Oh look, that mental person just killed those people with a shotgun.....guess what's happening next.

The average person in Chicago needs a gun to protect their homes. Love or hate the NRA, protect yourselves.

AlaskaGirl-759554

1. "Support Mayors Against Illegal Guns"

2. "Support banning high capacity magazines"

3. "Support Universal Background Checks for ALL gun purchases"

4. "Support a ban on Assault style rifles"

Your points are off.

1. Every dem, repub, etc., who isn't a criminal, is against illegal guns.

2. Maybe, just maybe, we should take care of the mental people in our society so we don't have to worry about magazine size.

3. Explain what good a universal background check will do when a criminal can get guns illegally from a friend, theft, etc. Also, a criminal doesn't need a semi-auto military style weapon to commit a crime. Most use pistols. Criminals don't want to fire their gun anyways, doing so just attracts heat.

4. If #2 passes, why does #4 need to happen?

@ LMarcT

TrustVerify

Hello folks, for those that are antigun and want to redefine or just define what rights the second amenment affords law abiding citizens there is a process to change or alter the second amendment. By all means start the process.

Does the right to bear arms include RPG's? Stinger missiles? Hand grenades? 50 caliber machine guns? AR-15's?

I guess that since the 2nd Amendment doesn't specify what "arms" means or is limited to, an atomic bomb could be in the mix?

Our country decided long ago to draw a line between public safety and the right to bear arms. The line now being considered doesn't infringe on the 2nd amendment, it just recognizes a few weapons that threaten public safety and that provide little practical additional personal safety.

No?

#1.181

Well, if we are to believe the SCOTUS, and the Founding Father, The Authors of the Constitution, then yes. An Atomic weapon is indeed "in the mix" so to speak.

The SCOTUS has ruled repeatedly, that the 1st Amendment covers all modern means of communication, art, and media. So why would this then not apply to the 2nd?

So if we are to follow your logic, then we should be able to regulate or ban anything that is not from the Printing Press. We should be able to ban all talk radio, TV, internet or other media outlets because these are not what the Authors of the Constitution meant, yet, we would still leave you with the Freedom of the Press.

And how does it not infringe upon my Right to Bear Arms, if you ban me from acquiring such an arm? But then to you, I would guess a gun is a gun is a gun.

But we have had this before have we not? Didn't reply to me then either.

@ LMarcT

To all that want absolutely no gun law changes...

So lets forget what the President and the NRA say... take the politics out of it completely. Let's take the non-starting attempts at historical and constitutional context out of the equation since they cannot be proved and they have so little current relevance. Pretend, for just one moment, that Obama's not after all your (and my) guns or intends to overtake our local governments with lethal federal armed forces... so we may get a straight and logical answer. Instead, lets just look at facts and logic... in fact, let's start with this one:

Please tell us why you want/need an AR-15 versus a standard hand gun or rifle and, while you're at it, explain to us why your want/need is more important than removing AR-15's from those that get so bold and brazen when they put one in their hands so as to kill innocent people.

Please tell us why you want/need a 31 round clip instead of a 10 round clip... again, please explain why your want/need is greater than the dangers they present to society.

And, lastly, please explain to me why the "line" between legal and illegal has to be this side of an AR-15 versus a 50 caliber machine gun or RPG or hand grenade? I seriously don't understand why you want anything called "Assault" to be legal and in the hands of your angry neighbor or the guy that thinks you just cut him off.

Keep in mind that I have guns... I shoot guns... I am fanatical about gun safety and keeping them out of untrained and irresponsible hands. Yet, I cannot get past the above questions. I cannot justify an AR-15 or an AK-47 for the sake of entertainment. They're a blast to shoot! They make one feel all powerful. The make your heart pump harder and faster. Ahhhh... the adrenalin! But for those very reasons, they should be banned. They embolden the likes of you and me. And they will embolden the wrong people just as much.

#1.162

Why do I need an “Assault Style Rifle”?

Can you tell me when the end of civilization will be? When the solar flare will strike? Youtube "Doomsday Preppers" I am not that paranoid, but I do keep a 3 day supply of water, food and clothing (in case a tornado wipes out my neighborhood). My guns are for putting deer meat in the freezer, and stress relief. (while you on Youtube, "Exploding Pumpkins") But seriously, do you know when the NEXT meteor is going to hit? While never a Boy Scout I believe their motto, “Always be prepared”. I am not going to wait for FEMA to show up. (They have such a wonderful track record)

Evidently you are not much of a gun efficiendo. The AR platform is a wonderful hunting rifle system. I have one AR lower with .243 Win. SSM for prairie dog(heavy barrel bench gun), and I was in the process of getting a 6.8mm (light barrel) for deer, .50 Beowolf for wild hogs and .223 for coyotes and just plinking. One firearm, 4 useful guns. It was cheaper to go this route until the liberals got their panties in a bunch.

The AR platform is completely modular. Push out two pins and the “Upper” receiver comes right off. Uppers are available (or they were) in a multitude of cartridges of small, medium and large calibers for a variety of purposes, from home defense, to hunting, to competition shooting, etc.

Nor can you, "take the non-starting attempts at historical and constitutional context out of the equation since they cannot be proved and they have so little current relevance." This statement is just stupid. What do you mean "Little current relevance". Does the first Amendment not cover the digital age? TV, Media, Movies, or Porn? How then can the 2nd Amendment not cover modern Arms? And just what exactly about "historical and constitutional context", can not be PROVED? Are you one of those idiots who believe our Rights are derived from the Constitution?

As for the last part of your comment, I will bite my tongue, and ask one simple question. "Why, if you are so concerned about gun safety, are you going after the one group of guns, that are used in the least numbers of gun crime?"

“To paraphrase Chairman Mao: Freedom and Oppression are dispensed from the END of a gun. Which END are you on?” Robert Reedy 2008

"The intelligence of a people is inversely proportional to the size of city and the length of time spent there in". Robert Reedy 1980

#1.168 nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/14/16965786-nra-exec-accuses-obama-of-gun-charade-at-state-of-the-union?commentId=74250258#c74250258

My husband and I are one of the "gun nuts" you described; we went out of our way to purchase an AR-15, and you're correct, it was not easy. Part of the reason was to protest the fact that Diane Feinstein is trying to get this gun banned.

So you're part of the mob that has been duped into purchasing an expensive, dangerous weapon you most likely will never use, save at the shooting range. Can't hunt with your new toy, can you?

What if someone breaks in and steals it? It's a worthy target for a criminal. You'll have to keep it locked up...so it won't be handy if you need to blast your way out of a burglary or blow away an intruder. Kind of useless, if you ask me. A shotgun works as well and is a lot cheaper.

Better hope your hubby isn't the jealous, controlling type, a mean drunk, or someone with anger management issues.

Seems to me that fancy hunk of metal is a whole lot more trouble than it's worth.

Can you see how you have been taken by the NRA?

Skip, as you well know, the right wing operates on drama, not facts. Lies, not truth. Money trumps everything else.

Oh, my goodness!

It's the liberals who are running around with their hair on fire, shrieking "guns are killing people!!" and "those bushmasters are evil!!".

Here are the facts:

Firearms kill 15,000 a year. That includes lawful homicides.

Cars kill 39,000 people a year. And cars aren't even 'meant to kill'. That makes them more dangerous.

Alcohol kills 75,000 a year. The last time NBC looked at this staggering number was 2005:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6089353/ns/health-addictions/t/alcohol-linked-us-deaths-year/#.USZWAvKjKM0

Alcohol linked to 75,000 U.S. deaths a year

Third leading cause of mortality, government study finds

.

Those are FACTS. You can choose to ignore them, but it diminishes your argument.

.

I'm betting you've never seen a firearm, let alone actually use one.

This is just more garbage being touted by the leftist media. It is obvious most Americans oppose gun control because most AMericans are smart and realize this only leads to confiscation which leads to Socialist controlled Europe or Canada where the criminals can do what they please as the law abiding make easy pickings.

THIS ARTICLE IS PROOF IF YOU KEEP SAYING IT OVER AND OVER THE UNEDUCATED VOTER BELIEVES IT...DONT FALL FOR IT PEOPLE IT IS A SCAM FOR CONTROL OF ALL OF US!!!! WE CANT LET THE CORRUPT KEEP CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT!!! Especially the zionist elitist like Bloomberg...a true wolf in sheep's clothing...SOROS LOVER!!

LMarcT

Does the right to bear arms include RPG's? Stinger missiles? Hand grenades? 50 caliber machine guns? AR-15's?

No,no,no,yes,yes. .50s are legal in some places, when's the last time you heard of a driveby with a .50 cal attached to a low rider?

I guess that since the 2nd Amendment doesn't specify what "arms" means or is limited to, an atomic bomb could be in the mix?

Or, instead of guessing you could look in a dictionary, I'll bet if you look at arms vs. WMD's you'll have the answer.

Our country decided long ago to draw a line between public safety and the right to bear arms. The line now being considered doesn't infringe on the 2nd amendment, it just recognizes a few weapons that threaten public safety and that provide little practical additional personal safety.

The current gun grab does not take public safety into consideration in any way, shape, or form.

Feinstein came out and said flat out if she had the senate votes she would take all guns when the 1st "assault weapon" defintition was tweaked to fit her agenda, now it's starting again under the pathetic guise of "public safety", listening to the likes of Feinstein you'd think AR-15's are the sole cause of death in the US, and it's because they have barrel shrouds and bayonette attachments.

"Robin Kelly has spent her career fighting to get deadly weapons off our streets," goes one of her TV ads. "In Congress, Kelly will keep taking on the NRA, fighting to ban assault weapons and outlaw high-capacity ammunition clips."

YO, Cook County Chief Administrative Officer Robin Kelly.
Maybe you should spend more time EDUCATING the children and people in that hell-hole of a city you are fighting the NRA about.
What the hell do you think kids graduating from your criminal public school system are supposed to do with 11th Graders Meeting College Readiness Benchmarks of: 21% in Reading, 19% in Math, 11% in Science, 38% in English.
STOP!!!!!!!!
Stop blaming the guns. Guns are inanimate objects that only operate in the hands of a human. No gun has ever been known to jump off the table shoot someone and then jump into the hand of a person. It's usually a very evil or a very mentally ill person. The only other possibility is a very desperate person.
When we graduate 20% of children who can't even read their diploma what are they going to do in the real world? What type of career are they ever going to have? A dishwasher? A drier at the car wash? A gang member? A drug dealer? A robber? These are all jobs of desperation. We all know how well people do in these jobs. It's not a matter of IF these poor forgotten children will be killed or kill someone, it's when. What do they have to work for? What ambition can you have when you can't read a job application?
These graduation statistics have been going on for 30 years. We are on out second generation if not more, of illiterates having illiterates. Everyone keeps bellowing it's the parents job to educate their children. This may happen in a few cases like the good doctor Benjamin Carsons mother who only had a third grade education and forced her children to read and learn. The rest of them live in their self-inflicted pity party and victim meme.
The educational careers of 25 to 40 percent of American children are imperiled because they don't read well enough, quickly enough, or easily enough.
Over one million children drop out of school each year, costing the nation over $240 billion in lost earnings, forgone tax revenues, and expenditures for social services.
I'll wager that most of these poor children end up getting taught how to survive on the streets and most of the time that's where their lives are shortened.
Fix the education system and most of our crime, drug abuse, violence and murders will be eliminated.
More than 20 percent of adults read at or below a fifth-grade level - far below the level needed to earn a living wage.
More than three out of four of those on welfare, 85% of unwed mothers and 68% of those arrested are illiterate. About three in five of America's prison inmates are illiterate.
SO PLEASE STOP WITH THE NONSENSE THAT GUNS ARE THE PROBLEM. OUR GOVERNMENT AND ITS SHAMEFUL PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM IS THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!

Look, everyone knows that a majority of crimes involving gun usage are committed by people who vote democrat. Look at Chicago.... one of the highest rates of democrats and one of the highest rates of crimes involving guns.

There is obviously a correllation.

It makes sense, why democrats are for gun control then.

Those who don't vote Democrat, can't believe this propaganda put out by democrats at MSNBC. Maybe it's because everyone else knows how to use their guns properly. Maybe its because democrats live in a fairy world where they think that if they remove all traces of guns, there would be no crime.

Let's get this straight. As long as there are Democrats, there will be crime. These are the people who have gotten used to taking from others which they did not earn themselves.

Just another reason why we think this article is pure propaganda.

#1.59

Wholly unsubstantiated drivel.

.

Indisputable facts: (an inconvenient truth)

The top 5 liberal strongholds in America are responsible for 58% of all gun related homicides:
LA, NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago, and Detroit.

Those cities produce about 5,300 of all gun homicides. That's a rate of 1 per 3200 or 31 per 100,000.
The rest of the country - 1 per 88,000 or 1.13 per 100,000.

Do you think all these cities being sanctuary cities have anything to do with their violence, drug abuse, murders and chaos?

"The intelligence of a people is inversely proportional to the size of city and the length of time spent there in". Robert Reedy 1980

Who in h--- is Robert Reedy and why are you quoting such an inane statement? Do you think people who spend their lives alone in the woods are more intelligent?

Firearms kill 15,000 a year. That includes lawful homicides.

Cars kill 39,000 people a year. And cars aren't even 'meant to kill'. That makes them more dangerous.

Alcohol kills 75,000 a year.

What is your point? Do you propose we outlaw cars? Alcohol?

Do you understand the concept of function? As in a car's function is transportation, and a gun's function is to kill.

@ LMarcT

Reading the irrepressible counter-arguments to your usual doses of sagacity, I can't help but imagine that for some people, 'being prepared' would probably mean crouching permanently in a steel-reinforced concrete and cinder-block corner, quarantined in full bio-hazard attire including mirrored goggles and gas mask, with the modular AR-15 platform assembled into the full anti-ethno-expi-alidocious array, cocked and forever mounted against the shoulder. Just in case.

The issue of guns in America needs to be discussed in a fair and balanced manner. Since most of the authors on this thread are obsessed with the OFFENSIVE use of guns in the commission of crimes, I invite them to consider the DEFENSIVE use of guns in the prevention of crimes.

According to the National Self Defense Survey conducted by Florida State University criminologists, the rate of Defensive Gun Uses can be projected nationwide to approximately 2.5 million per year — one Defensive Gun Use every 13 seconds. Among 15.7% of gun defenders interviewed nationwide during The National Self Defense Survey, the defender believed that someone "almost certainly" would have died had the gun not been used for protection — a life saved by a privately held gun about once every 1.3 minutes.

Actually, those findings greatly SURPRISED the main researcher – professor of criminology and criminal justice, PhD. Gary Kleck - who is a member of the American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International USA, Independent Action, Democrats 2000, and Common Cause, among other politically liberal organizations. He is also a lifelong registered Democrat, as well as a contributor to liberal Democratic candidates. He is not now, nor has he ever been, a member of, or contributor to, the National Rifle Association, Handgun Control, Inc. nor any other advocacy organization, nor has he received funding for research from any such organizations.

Moreover, one of the most prominent criminologists in the world, Marvin Wolfgang (Director of the Sellin Center for Studies in Criminology and Criminal Law at the University of Pennsylvania), commented on Professor Gary Kleck's research by saying "I am a strong gun-control advocate as can be found among the criminologists in this country...I would eliminate all guns from the civilian population and maybe even from the police. I hate guns - ugly, nasty instruments designed to kill people...What troubles me is the research by Gary Kleck and his assistant Marc Gertz. The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear-cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years, namely, the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator...I have to admit my admiration for the care and caution expressed in their research."

Then Marvin Wolfgang went on to ask "Can it be true that more than two million instances occur each year in which a gun was used as a defensive measure against crime? It is hard to believe. Yet, it is hard to challenge the data collected. We do not have contrary evidence. The National Crime Victim Survey does not directly contravene this latest survey, nor do the Mauser and Hart studies...The soundness of the Kleck and Gertz study is clear. I cannot further debate it."

Finally, Marvin Wolfgang concluded "The Kleck and Gertz study impresses me for the caution the authors exercise and the elaborate nuances they examine methodologically. I do not like the conclusions that having a gun can be useful, but I cannot fault their methodology. They have tried earnestly to meet all objections in advance and have done exceedingly well."

(Marvin Wolfgang, "A Tribute to a View I have Opposed," Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 1995, Vol. 86 No.1.)

but Chicago and Detroit have the highest murder rate, now I am sure this caused by all of the legal gun owners. except for the guns that the DOJ provided to the cartels. There are some very one sided moronic liberals out night. go put you jammies and go brush you teeth. if you hate us so much there is always france waiting for you.

AlaskaGirl-759554

You can always tell when there are polls about the NRA and guns that Republicans favor guns over country based on the percentages of those who favor the NRA.

Support Mayors Against Illegal Guns

Support banning high capacity magazines

Support Universal Background Checks for ALL gun purchases

Support a ban on Assault style rifles

AlaskaGirl - That is the biggest pile of walrus sh!t I have ever heard from left-wing loon! You're either dating too many Polar bears out in the sticks or drinking a fifth of Whiskey with a shot of Kodiak Bear turds or both! Our illustrious Vice President Biden the incompetent fool who express his view with his a$$ is out of touch with reality when it comes to self-defense. "Go outside with double barrel shotgun and fire off a round." What a freaking moron this fool really is. And since we are dealing with Natural Law, it is our natural right to defend our homes and loved ones by any means necessary. And to revolt when a tyrannical ass-wipe becomes a self absorbed Emperor like the current POS we call POTUS. I do not think they want to see the local Sheriff's, deputies and citizens on one side end up facing off with regular police and military personnel on the other side. It wouldn't make for good news worldwide. The citizen does not need permission to own a gun from any damn politician, that is their natural right to own it. And that is what Natural Law is all about. The right was not given to you or grant to you. You were freaking born with it. And that is where you and the rest of the butt-kissing Obama Loons do not understand. You think we are talking godly rights, we are not!

Can't force Communism on a guy with a gun.

The second amendment was here first, don't like it? Go somewhere that doesn't have it. I...You'll be much happier.

@ cannonballer

LMarcT

Does the right to bear arms include RPG's? Stinger missiles? Hand grenades? 50 caliber machine guns? AR-15's?

No,no,no,yes,yes. .50s are legal in some places, when's the last time you heard of a drive by with a .50 cal attached to a low rider?

I guess that since the 2nd Amendment doesn't specify what "arms" means or is limited to, an atomic bomb could be in the mix?

Or, instead of guessing you could look in a dictionary, I'll bet if you look at arms vs. WMD's you'll have the answer.

Our country decided long ago to draw a line between public safety and the right to bear arms. The line now being considered doesn't infringe on the 2nd amendment, it just recognizes a few weapons that threaten public safety and that provide little practical additional personal safety.

The current gun grab does not take public safety into consideration in any way, shape, or form.

Feinstein came out and said flat out if she had the senate votes she would take all guns when the 1st "assault weapon" definition was tweaked to fit her agenda, now it's starting again under the pathetic guise of "public safety", listening to the likes of Feinstein you'd think AR-15's are the sole cause of death in the US, and it's because they have barrel shrouds and bayonet attachments.

#1.194

I will argue the point about RPG's, stingers, grenades, but you make a good point about WMD's, as the rest are considered small arms. But then again the Constitution only specifies "arms" and at the time citizens were not discouraged or banned from owning cannons. Basically it was only limited by what one could afford, much as it is today. How many homicides have been committed with Thompson? At $18K, not likely.

@ Rhonda Lucky-296458

Good research and good data are the foundation of good legislation, when they are allowed to inform both sides of an argument. I would consider the information you provided to be very pertinent to the discussion (upon verification).

In response, may I suggest that many of the authors on this thread who appear to be 'obsessed with the OFFENSIVE use of guns' would agree that it is probable that even fewer of the criminals who are thwarted by 'the DEFENSIVE use of guns' would be injured or killed during the prevention of their crimes, were they not in possession of firearms when they are committing these crimes. Some of the authors on this thread might suggest that anyone who is committing a crime deserves to be injured or killed, but others would argue that it is better to preserve life when possible, and work out the more intricate circumstances of the criminal activity when cooler heads prevail, and when the perpetrators are in custody. In short, no one denies that guns are an effective and essential measure against criminal activity when warranted. But the issue at hand, to my observation anyway, has more to do with the shear number of guns saturating our culture, and the consequential ease, therefore, with which they can be obtained by those who should not have them. Fewer guns, or at least fewer of certain types of guns and related components, would ultimately reduce the number of gun-related casualties - on both sides of the law.

@ kaybeetoys

"The intelligence of a people is inversely proportional to the size of city and the length of time spent there in". Robert Reedy 1980

Who in h--- is Robert Reedy and why are you quoting such an inane statement? Do you think people who spend their lives alone in the woods are more intelligent?

#1.199

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe." -- Thomas Jefferson

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups". --unknown

The man is of no consequence, he is only someone I know. But the fact that you fail to understand the meaning of it speaks volumes. It is a comment on group or mob mentality. It is also a comment on how those who only know an urban environment become detached or divorced from the true realities of life.

I have no idea what your background is, and I really don't care. All I know is what I have seen in your posts, and as smart as you think you are, you have no clue what so ever, it would seem, of real life. To me you are nothing more than a monkey in zoo. Your food is brought to you, and you have no idea how it is done. You crap is piped out, and you have no idea of how that is done either. You live in your little bubble, and spew forth ignorance on a grand scale.

You have no understanding of firearms, other than the liberal propaganda you are spoon fed.

And until you have an experience that opens your eyes, it does me no good to try and tell you otherwise.

Dav1bg

Can't force Communism on a guy with a gun.

The second amendment was here first, don't like it? Go somewhere that doesn't have it. I...You'll be much happier.

#1.204

Right on Dav1bg

I ask them why I must change to fit into their ideal, when there are already countries that have what they want, why don't they go there and I tell them I would be much happier if they did as well... ;-)

I would gladly pay higher taxes, if we set up a gubment Program to help relocate Liberals to another country.

Good call, pass it on. keep up the good fight.

BloodthirstySavage

@ LMarcT

Reading the irrepressible counter-arguments to your usual doses of sagacity, I can't help but imagine that for some people, 'being prepared' would probably mean crouching permanently in a steel-reinforced concrete and cinder-block corner, quarantined in full bio-hazard attire including mirrored goggles and gas mask, with the modular AR-15 platform assembled into the full anti-ethno-expi-alidocious array, cocked and forever mounted against the shoulder. Just in case.

#1.200

And my guess is, in your haste to pound out such an eloquent little satire, you failed to notice that the post was not actually from LMarcT. I see that you are well practiced in your English Composition skills, how about working on those English Comprehension skills?

But in answer to your imagination, yes there are those who are afraid to live their lives, for fear of some catastrophe. Some choose to hunker down in a bunker, some simply barricade themselves in apartment, fearing what is beyond the door, and instead only venture out on the internet. There are extremes at both ends and on both sides of the argument.

What I find fascinating, is the psychological need to poke fun at or otherwise ridicule those who would be prepared for such an eventuality, remote as it is. Is it to satisfy the fear that you have that something may actually occur, because subconsciously you know it is a reality, you have no way of surviving it because you are unprepared, or are dependent upon someone or something (government) to rescue you?

Whatever is decided, one thing for sure, is that making it more difficult to have and get guns will be very good.

For the criminals.

There are only two choices in this 'debate':

First, this is a crisis that should not be wasted, and pass new laws for agenda's sake.

Second, the deaths in the mass shootings are local, state, and national tragedies. We will look for and find the root cause of them and take corrective action regardless of politics.

I would like to think that Americans care about their children. I think many do, just not the party members on this forum.

You are all so interested in pushing the party line and scoring points. Its disgusting, we need to abolish BOTH 'd' & 'r' so you might think for yourself.

Then, the rest of us might get our nation back from the two groups that have done the most harm to all of us and the nation.

The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government, lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."--Patrick Henry---1736-1799 ---- "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."-- Thomas Jefferson -

It's not being realistic to try and defend your rights to a gun in some remote rural town, to the desires of someone in a big city - apples and oranges.

The massacre's are alarming - but it is the every day killing that is amassing the body count.

Illusions of grandeur (more like suicidal) to think you could revolt against the US government - Homeland Security (doomsday preparers on steroids) wasn't designed to help you...your revolt plans don't come close to their think-tank.

DumbFarmBoy; first rule of survival - be aware of your surroundings. Keeping your self out of dangerous situations is how you control fear - what possible reason could I give the US government so that they would come after me?

I see the path to personal freedom through personal responsibility and conforming to the laws of the land, basic reasoning, and the will of the many to be greater than the desires of the individual. I see the path to freedom through the end of a gun - to be very short sighted.

@ DumbFarmBoy (#1.209)

Respectfully, if LMarcT was the author of 1.175, 1.178, 1.179, 1.181, and 1.183, then I was, in fact, addressing LMarcT. The use of satire is a common practice in our culture, as evidenced by any number of long-running, well-respected TV shows (SNL comes to mind.) For the record, I thought LMarcT could use a chuckle, considering the intransigence he is often met with in these threads. Also for the record, a review of my posts will (hopefully) indicate that on those occasions when I do address individuals with whom I disagree, I try to avoid being derogatory or rudely sarcastic, even if I may be a bit presumptuous or satirical at times. A few good general rules of thumb are to 1)address the topic most often, not the other authors 2)address the authors with whom you agree at least as often as you address those with whom you disagree and 3)address all of the other authors respectfully, whether you agree or disagree with them. (Those whom we are tempted to address disrespectfully probably shouldn't be addressed at all.) I'll defer a defense against your observations regarding psychological needs, fears, subconscious awareness, etc.

You do make some valid points, and hopefully you will be around to make sure that public opinion includes your voice for as long as LMarcT has been around. Here is also a chance to say that I like your avatar, for all that is worth.

It is a comment on group or mob mentality. It is also a comment on how those who only know an urban environment become detached or divorced from the true realities of life.

DumbFarmBoy, you seem to believe rural dwellers are by nature less prone to a mob mentality. What do you have to back that up, save a couple quotes? Provide some statistics to bolster your claim. Otherwise, it's merely your opinion.

I have no idea what your background is, and I really don't care.

That part is correct. You have no idea what my background is...and then you proceed to make the following assumptions/ insults anyway:

you have no clue what so ever, it would seem, of real life.

To me you are nothing more than a monkey in zoo.

Your food is brought to you, and you have no idea how it is done.

You crap is piped out, and you have no idea of how that is done either.

You live in your little bubble, and spew forth ignorance on a grand scale.

Very impressive. Your real identity has been revealed: Carnac the Magnificent!

You have no understanding of firearms, other than the liberal propaganda you are spoon fed.

Again, you're spouting off with nada to back it up. I grew up with a father and brothers who hunted and I went along sometimes. Our house reeked of Hoppes Number 9. I've shot plenty of guns, including an AK-47.

I know people who have been shot and killed, including two children.

And until you have an experience that opens your eyes, it does me no good to try and tell you otherwise.

Ha! You're a little boy who's still wet behind the ears. You are the one in sore need of an experience that will open your eyes about guns. But I cannot wish that kind of an experience on you or on anyone else.

Learn from the mistakes of others... it's a lot easier than learning everything by your own mistakes.

hillbilly-genius

Take note that things have changed, for one, we are not at war with England. In TJ's day weapons were used for defense of the people in a militia and putting food on the table. Today guns are used to kill kids, assist criminals in their acts and to kill people accidentally. All of which we can do without.

Also in TJ's day if the government was disliked, like English rule, a militia would overthrow it and create another. I don't see a militia doing that to Congress today.

What is the difference from a police protecting a bank with an AK-15 and a civilian with an automatic gun at home to protect their family............The uniform.

However the Second amendment that allowed citizens to bear arms just about self protection, it is first and foremost protection against the tyranny of the government, the same government who want to confiscate the guns. That is the gravity of this issue, government against second amendment. DC already lost in the High Cout when they try to ban guns.

The funniest part about all this...they got everyone to stop worrying about unemployment and poverty, instead every argument is about guns guns guns.

You see, when you are failing at a REAL issue (that you can do nothing about), the only hope you have is to distract the people's attention - that way you don't have to face the reality.

Gas prices are over $4.00 a gallon - no one cares

Unemployment is high, people are dropping off the end - no one cares

China is hacking our intelligence systems - no one cares

We're not talking about a space program

We're not talking about growth of our nation

We're not talking about how we can re-gain control and re-establish ourselves as a dominant force

The hand has been played and all we now care about (in our knee-jerk society) is how to get legal guns out of the hands of legal gun owners.

Question - if a criminal is carrying a gun on the streets of Chicago (which is illegal by the way) regardless where he/she got it...do you think that creating new legislation in another state will suddenly curb the criminals decision to continue to carry his/her gun illegally?

The Vice President has said that the legislation they are proposing won't do anything.

The DOJ has said the legislation they are proposing won't do anything to slow down crime.

This is all done for one simple reason - distract the nation so they will stop talking about the REAL problem at hand.

And it has been WIDLY successful in doing so.

Interestly though...in the quest to quickly figure out WHAT to do, some interesting ideas have come up:

In Washington - they added wording to the proposed legislation that would allow local law enforcement the right to confiscate your weapon if THEY believed it wasn't secured well enough - yes, 4th Amendment out the window. It is now out of the legislation, but sadly, the Democrats who sponsored the proposal didn't know it was in the bill - yes you read that correctly...the sponsor of the bill...DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS IN THE BILL!!!

http://www.examiner.com/article/washington-gun-control-proposal-said-to-violate-fourth-amendment-to-constitution

And in New York, they're trying to set in legislation that would force gun owners to carry a 1 million dollar insurance policy, which has been projected to cost upwards of $2,000 a year. So basically what they're saying is, "while gun ownership is a RIGHT (not a 'privilege') secured by the founders of the nation...you can only HAVE that right if you're rich enough to afford it"

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/19/proposed-bill-would-require-gun-owners-in-ny-to-buy-at-least-1-million-in-liability-insurance-or-forfeit-privilege-to-own-a-firearm/

so, let me get this straight. An anti-gun candidate, running against a pro-gun candidate in a Democratic special Congressional primary to replace an anti-gun Congressman who has recently plead guilty to the misuse of campaign funds, in a traditionally anti-gun congressional district, is the front-runner. And this indicates a shift against guns in the Democratic Party?

@ kaybeetoys

This morning it occurred to me that in the same category you have referred to we also have:

- The motorcycle in the garage with low-mileage and eternal payments [I have one] / The way gas prices are going up, if we don't get a bike we will certainly go broke, hun...

- The fishing boat / Think of all the money we can save on groceries when I bring home all those fish, hun...

- The bowling ball / That time we went bowling with Mary and Joe was one of the best times we ever had, hun...

- And the dynosinclastic infinibulum / Joe says the car will run better and the washing machine will use less water, just by leaving it here on the shelf, hun...

Don't forget this one:

-We need a gun in case someone tries to break in and shoot us/ even though it is a lot more effective to get a security system instead.

Kay

According to Biden a two barrel shot gun is better.LOL

Today guns are used to kill kids, assist criminals in their acts and to kill people accidentally.

Shockingly, they're also used to hunt for food, to protect our families, and in the Olympics for sport...

It's only in the hands of the nefarious and the ignorant do they cause harm to another human without provocation.

Kay

According to Biden a two barrel shot gun is better.LOL

However I preffer my AR with 30 round magazine.

@ kaybeetoys

...which [alarm system] will also, to strengthen the argument, provide protection against fire and optionally carbon monoxide, not to mention the round-the-clock protection it provides for Fido and Whiskers when we're not home, as well as your jewelry and my game system.

We guys are good at finding excuses to buy our toys...like... the black helicopters it says on the radio are flying around everywhere lately... and the U.N. which is going to overthrow our government and confiscate all our guns, even if our government doesn't round us all up and put us in those giant holding pens they have been building in the desert, hun...

A security system won't assume your wife is a burglar and kill her when she gets up to use the bathroom in the middle of the night.

...but some men might consider that a liability. ;)

@ kaybeetoys

...at the very least that's one excuse out the window...

kaybeetoys, you are fun.

For the moment, on this thread it seems like the only thing we care about any more is guns, guns, guns. We have stopped worrying about unemployment and poverty, and no one cares about gas prices, or the fact that the Chinese are hacking our intelligence systems. So, I'm going to scoot over to a thread where the topic of debate is the economy, and it seems like no one cares about guns anymore... or maybe a thread where the discussion is about gas prices, where they do care about the economy and poverty, but not so much about the Chinese hackers. You get the idea.

Thanks for all the fun...

@ BloodthirstySavage

@ DumbFarmBoy (#1.209)

Respectfully, if LMarcT was the author of 1.175, 1.178, 1.179, 1.181, and 1.183, then I was, in fact, addressing LMarcT. The use of satire is a common practice in our culture, as evidenced by any number of long-running, well-respected TV shows (SNL comes to mind.) For the record, I thought LMarcT could use a chuckle, considering the intransigence he is often met with in these threads. Also for the record, a review of my posts will (hopefully) indicate that on those occasions when I do address individuals with whom I disagree, I try to avoid being derogatory or rudely sarcastic, even if I may be a bit presumptuous or satirical at times. A few good general rules of thumb are to 1)address the topic most often, not the other authors 2)address the authors with whom you agree at least as often as you address those with whom you disagree and 3)address all of the other authors respectfully, whether you agree or disagree with them. (Those whom we are tempted to address disrespectfully probably shouldn't be addressed at all.) I'll defer a defense against your observations regarding psychological needs, fears, subconscious awareness, etc.

You do make some valid points, and hopefully you will be around to make sure that public opinion includes your voice for as long as LMarcT has been around. Here is also a chance to say that I like your avatar, for all that is worth.

#1.215

Then you have my apologies. But when you gave no reference to comment number, yet included, "being prepared" "in a steel-reinforced concrete and cinder-block corner" (as in bunker/Preppers) "the modular AR-15 platform" which singular to my post, I assumed you were reference comment #1.190. Mea Cupla.

And thank You, it is the Happiness Fairy, and he just sprinkled happy dust on you, so smile damn it, this sh...stuff is expensive.

Oh, And I do agree, if someone posts a decent comment, I will reply in kind. If someone can engage in intelligent, knowledgeable conversation, all the better, but I don't tolerate stupid very well.

BloodthirstySavage:

Maybe I can help you better understand the OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE use of guns by informing you that MOST often both types of uses do NOT include physical harm. Let me clarify my message by providing more detail, which includes a personal experience:

According to The National Self-Defense Survey, the defensive use of guns is about three to four times as common as the criminal use of guns.

The National Self-Defense Survey was the first survey specifically designed to estimate the frequency of defensive gun uses. It asked all respondents about both their own use and those of other household members, inquired about all gun types owned, and excluded usage against animals or associated with occupational duties. It also established whether persons claiming a defensive gun use had actually confronted an adversary, actually used their guns in some way (such as threatening their adversaries), and had done so in response to a crime being committed against them.

The National Self-Defense Survey indicated that there are approximately 2.5 MILLION incidents of defensive gun use per year in the United States. A similar national survey conducted by the Police Foundation and sponsored by the National Institute of Justice almost exactly confirmed the findings of the National Self-Defense Survey.

In short, most uses of guns for either criminal or defensive purposes are less dramatic or consequential than one might think. Only 3% of criminal gun assaults involve anyone actually being wounded and the same is true of defensive gun uses. More commonly, guns are merely pointed at another person, or perhaps only referred to ("I've got a gun") or displayed, and this is sufficient to accomplish the ends of the user, whether criminal or non-criminal. Most defensive uses of guns did not in fact involve shooting anyone.

Those findings seem to track with my personal experience when someone was pounding on my front door at 3:00am so forcefully that the pictures on my walls rattled. When I opened the inner door (I also have an outer storm door) to see if it was a neighbor in an emergency situation, a large, strange man began hollering incoherent insults at me. So, I displayed my M1 carbine with a 30-round banana clip and chambered a round (I still had the safety on). That display alone was enough to make the stranger flee. When the cops arrived about ten minutes later, they took my description of the stranger and proceeded to hunt for him in my neighborhood. I don't know if they ever found him. Nevertheless, my defensive use of a firearm (even though I only had to display it) will never be included in any statistical data base that casts firearms in a positive light.

By definition, all incidents involving successful defensive gun uses fall within the no-injury, no-property-loss category, and thus are largely invisible to the police. Consequently, police rarely hear about the bulk of successful defensive gun uses, instead hearing mostly about an unrepresentative minority of them containing a disproportionately large number of failures.

Moreover, according to crime incidents reported in the National Crime Victimization Survey, victims who use guns for self-protection are less likely to be injured or to lose property than otherwise similar victims who used other forms of self-protection or who did not resist at all.

So, if gun possession among law-abiding citizens tends to reduce violence, then reducing such gun possession is not a social good. I'm glad I own a gun...and one with a high-capacity magazine!

Finally, let’s not forget that NOT A SINGLE GUN was used on 9/11 or at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995; unspeakable evil will always find a way to express itself, with or without guns. Also, if the gun-grabbers think that the solution to reducing violence in America can be achieved by disarming and preventing citizens from defending themselves, maybe the same solution should be applied to reducing violence in the world at large by disbanding America’s military forces. How safe then do you think America would be in a world where only our enemies had guns...or better guns...or more guns?

N-ot, R-eal, A-merican, NRA puts out a enemies list, these gun nuts are crazy !!!

BloodthirstySavage

kaybeetoys, you are fun.

For the moment, on this thread it seems like the only thing we care about any more is guns, guns, guns. We have stopped worrying about unemployment and poverty, and no one cares about gas prices, or the fact that the Chinese are hacking our intelligence systems. So, I'm going to scoot over to a thread where the topic of debate is the economy, and it seems like no one cares about guns anymore... or maybe a thread where the discussion is about gas prices, where they do care about the economy and poverty, but not so much about the Chinese hackers. You get the idea.

Thanks for all the fun...

#1.229

As per your own advice, 1)address the topic most often, not the other authors. And the Topic here is How GUNS are affecting the Democrat Party.

But I do agree with you, and this President is a master Magician or Illusionist. "Watch this hand over here, hey don't pay attention to the other hand, Watch this hand over here!"

And the gun debate is subterfuge, a distraction, so he isn't questioned on the real issues, Abuse of Power, Failed leadership, High Crimes and Misdemeanors, the Economy, the Debt, Unemployment, "Jobs are Job 1!" and that list goes on for a long, long way.

And there is really nothing the President can do about gas prices, even though the Liberals think is was Bush and his cronies that made gas go up, same thing is going and is worse under Obama, yet do you hear the cries from the Left to hang Obama? Nor is it the Federal Governments JOB, to do anything about poverty. PERIOD. It is not in the Constitution.

And there are so many things wrong with the way This Admin, and the previous ones as well, deal with the Communist Chinese, I am not even going to begin, only suffice it to say, we need to cut ALL ties, until that nation gets a handle on human Rights, Freedom, and Pollution.

What is your point? Do you propose we outlaw cars? Alcohol?

Yes, if you think banning guns will stop criminals from having them.

Since cars and alcohol "aren't designed to kill", but they kill many more, then they are inherently more dangerous.

Do you understand the concept of function? As in a car's function is transportation, and a gun's function is to kill.

Yet, cars kill more than guns. That makes them deadlier.

You can try to spin it any way you want.

FACT: Cars are deadlier than guns.

A security system won't assume your wife is a burglar and kill her when she gets up to use the bathroom in the middle of the night.

A security system can be defeated by cutting the phone line.

An operational security system brings the police after the fact, if you live in an area where police are nearby.

@ kaybeetoys

It is a comment on group or mob mentality. It is also a comment on how those who only know an urban environment become detached or divorced from the true realities of life.

DumbFarmBoy, you seem to believe rural dwellers are by nature less prone to a mob mentality. What do you have to back that up, save a couple quotes? Provide some statistics to bolster your claim. Otherwise, it's merely your opinion.

I have no idea what your background is, and I really don't care.

That part is correct. You have no idea what my background is...and then you proceed to make the following assumptions/ insults anyway:

you have no clue what so ever, it would seem, of real life.

To me you are nothing more than a monkey in zoo.

Your food is brought to you, and you have no idea how it is done.

You crap is piped out, and you have no idea of how that is done either.

You live in your little bubble, and spew forth ignorance on a grand scale.

Very impressive. Your real identity has been revealed: Carnac the Magnificent!

You have no understanding of firearms, other than the liberal propaganda you are spoon fed.

Again, you're spouting off with nada to back it up. I grew up with a father and brothers who hunted and I went along sometimes. Our house reeked of Hoppes Number 9. I've shot plenty of guns, including an AK-47.

I know people who have been shot and killed, including two children.

And until you have an experience that opens your eyes, it does me no good to try and tell you otherwise.

Ha! You're a little boy who's still wet behind the ears. You are the one in sore need of an experience that will open your eyes about guns. But I cannot wish that kind of an experience on you or on anyone else.

Learn from the mistakes of others... it's a lot easier than learning everything by your own mistakes.

#1.216

And yet you do not contradict me. You make a dismissive argument, but you neither confirm nor deny either a rural or urban upbringing. What are you afraid of, admitting that I was correct?

And Yes, It is only my opinion, based on years of observation, (does one have to have a PhD, to be observant? And if so what about Socrates, Aristotle, etc. Which College did they Graduate From?) and experience. This another indicator you are a city slicker, to think that in order to be "Qualified" one must have a "Government Certificate". And another major problem with this country perpetrated upon us by those who shout, "You MUST go to College"... {Forbes did a study to find which University produced the most billionaires, Harvard was first, with 50 (I think, it has been a while since I saw the article) With College Dropouts in second at 31.}

Does that mean that people with rural backgrounds are immune from "stupid behavior"? no. All I am saying is that typically, in rural areas, there is a more common sense approach, there is a more direct connection to the real world, one is not insulated behind mirrored glass and concrete.

And when I say "Monkeys in a Zoo" that is to include all city dwellers. Those people are in fact the "Zombies" in the movies, and I only wish that I could suspend food deliveries to the cities for a week, to show those People, the Elitist snobs, those that look down upon those out here in "Fly Over" country, we country bumpkins, Just exactly how dependent they are upon us. And no, I don't need you people for a damn thing, I can quite readily revert to stone age tech. (I would rather not though, I enjoy indoor plumbing)

And to say you have, "shot plenty of guns, including an AK-47.", means nothing. And just because your house reeked of Hoppes, (and the fact that who ever the gun owner was who was using Hoppes, tell me that person is something of a novice) so what, growing up, ours did too(gun cleaners, not Hoppes), doesn't mean my mom could tell the difference between gas piston and gas impingement. I am sure you drive a car, can you tell the compression ratio?, do you even know what the ratio means? How often do you change or add to the muffler fluid?

Where's Thirsty Redhead from Dickville? This seems like something he would comment on.

Dick., # 1.217

You were doing ok until you attempted to say there was a difference between TJ's time and now on govt likability. Have you not read the posts here?

BHO only took 26 states, not even half of the 57. lol

KBT., # 1.222

Ah, wrong thinking there. A burglar alarm is like a fire alarm, it NOTIFIES you of a danger, it does not stop the danger.

Your 'logic' would thus require no fire extinguishers in private hands/homes as most people have not had a house fire either.

Are you going to make fun of people who make home survival plans in the event of a fire?

No gold star for you. But you get a mercy D-. Engage use of mental facilities next time, we've no curve here.

DFB., #1.235,

Good post, enjoyable, did it without getting nasty. Gold star.

All you really have to do is shut off the power for three days to see the big cities dissolve into violence and me first. Most do not realize that the big helpful govt says you're on your own for 72 hours. KBT probable doesn't know that burglar alarms only have 8 hour backups, poor lil' girl. Though the real cruelty would be to all those that have only this to give meaning to their lives.

Strive for gun control daily, always hit what you are shooting at!

@ Rhonda Lucky-296458

You have expanded my understanding and appreciation for the contextual 'defensive' use a gun. Though standing on the side of the isle in favor of gun regulation, I would endorse your descriptions, your research, and your personal experience as valuable components to the understanding of our situation, so that the best decisions can be. It may seem a little counter-intuitive in our "us and them" delineated partisan epoch, but I believe that the very best friend or ally any opinion-holder can have is the one who is just as dedicated to an either slightly, strongly, or completely different position, yet willing to present the genuine reasons behind that position in the meaningful and comprehensive manner that you have done here. After all, little can be gained from continuing to discuss any view exclusively among those who already subscribe to it. Of course, the essential ingredient to that idealism would be open-mindedness (or the absence of intransigence) by the bona-fide opinion-holders from both sides of the isle.

None of which actually speaks to the topically relevant thoughts elicited by reading your post.

With that, I will allow the adjustment of my concepts to the inclusion of your (refreshingly well written) elaboration on the actual topic, while I entertain the hope that the discussion will continue, on this thread and others, and among many more equally sincere participants.

Someone who wanted Tiananmen-Square-style massacres here in the United States would never say so openly. He would say that he was only concerned about firearm-related deaths and "wanted to do everything he could to prevent them." That sounds a whole lot better. (I don't trust anyone who gives verbiage to that effect.) I don't want anything that would be of particular use to a totalitarian state. So, I don't want a disarmed citizenry and I don't want a national database of everyone who has ever purchased a firearm. In fact, I oppose most nationwide (and even statewide) databases. I do not see their purpose as benign.

Farmboy:

This city dweller has not forgotten how important rural areas are. But I do think you paint with a little too broad a brush. And I think your for supply starvation to the cities is as bad as someone wishing that all farms were redirected to big businesses so that all farmers became slaves who toiled for scraps. (Not that I think the condition of farmers is great as it is, but having no claim to the fruit of your labors would probably be an attention-getter.)

@ Pvblivs

Farmboy:

This city dweller has not forgotten how important rural areas are. But I do think you paint with a little too broad a brush. And I think your for supply starvation to the cities is as bad as someone wishing that all farms were redirected to big businesses so that all farmers became slaves who toiled for scraps. (Not that I think the condition of farmers is great as it is, but having no claim to the fruit of your labors would probably be an attention-getter.)

#1.244

Perhaps you are correct. I know there are city folks who still respect those out in rural areas, but this makes them no less dependent on the grocery store for food. You should also note, I said suspend, (for a week, perhaps I should have said for only 4 days), I do not wish for the starvation of the people.

I do not wish for a permanent cancellation of deliveries, which you imply by "redirected to big businesses so that all farmers became share croppers who toiled for scraps."

Just a little wake up call so to speak.

David, you are the first of your coven to talk sense about this. May the others follow your lead.

Morgs74 - coven? That word in itself makes anything you post irrelevant since you clearly are a fool!