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Is there a sea change afoot among the conservative intelligentsia?
As the Republican Party wrestles with how to reinvent itself to appeal more broadly to an increasingly diverse electorate after its two-straight presidential losses, a handful of conservative thinkers are calling upon the GOP to cast off some of its most well-worn proposals and elements of the party’s identity.
Former Clinton White House Chief of Staff Erskine Bowles and former Republican Sen. Alan Simpson modified their budget reduction plan. Politico's Jim VandeHei discusses.
These intellectual leaders are arguing that the GOP must embraces changes in policy. That’s significantly different than what the official organs of the Republican Party have said, which is that the party needn’t change its core policies and positions so much as frame them in a way that’s more appealing to more voters.
Take, for example, a post on Monday by Jim Pethokoukis of the American Enterprise Institute, who argued that Republicans should abandon their pursuit of a flat tax, a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution or the gold standard – three ideas that have long found advocates on the right.
“Today, the top marginal tax rate is 40 percent, and inflation is 2 percent. Health-care spending and the debt have both risen by nearly 80 percent as a share of output. The average American is 37 years old,” wrote Pethokoukis on National Review Online. “Economics and demography require a reworking of the conservative policy portfolio. But center-right politicians in Washington keep offering same-old, same-old stale solutions.”
Recommended: Obama warns looming sequester would devastate economy
That’s a sentiment similar to the one voiced by Ramesh Ponnuru on National Review in an op-ed Sunday for the New York Times. Republicans, Ponnuru wrote, should be more willing to move beyond the policy prescriptions offered three decades ago by President Ronald Reagan.
"They slavishly adhere to the economic program that Reagan developed to meet the challenges of the late 1970s and early 1980s, ignoring the fact that he largely overcame those challenges, and now we have new ones," wrote Ponnuru.
Michael Gerson and Peter Wehner, both veterans of the most recent Bush administration, argued in a new piece for Commentary magazine that the GOP should learn from the centrist examples of President Bill Clinton, and former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, whose election signaled a new era for the UK’s Labour Party. They argued that Republicans’ sweeping victories in the 2010 midterm elections were an “aberration” rather than a catalyzing moment for the GOP.
Gerson and Wehner prescribed a four-step process for the GOP: Republicans, they wrote, must first renew their focus “on the economic concerns of working-and middle-class Americans;” second, “welcome rising immigrant groups;” third, “express and demonstrate a commitment to the common good;” fourth, “engage vital social issues forthrightly but in a manner that is aspirational rather than alienating;” and fifth, “harness their policy views to the findings of science.”
They wrote that many of the existing Republican presidential frontrunners in 2016 are equipped to deliver that message.
But: “Their challenge is both to refine and relaunch the Republican message, to propose policies that symbolize values and cultural understanding, to reconnect with a middle America that looks different than it once did, and to confront old attitudes, not from time to time, but every day.”
Leave a Comment:
Reinvent? The GOP is so far out of step with the main stream that they have to reinvent themselves or face similar results forever.
The GOP should completely overhaul their stances on just about every issue they have long held.
The democrats have been successful by embracing our nations youth. If a party can embrace someone at a young age that person may be inclined to stay with that party for life.
The GOP seems stuck on running with people with money; period.
old wine in new bottles?
That's no fairy-tale, that's pig-tale (which, of course, is the story about me Pigotry)!
...or... old s-wine ? another pig-tale?
... to reconnect with a middle America that looks different than it once did, and to confront old attitudes, not from time to time, but every day."
There are millions of people having lived in America their entire lives, are realizing that they can't seem to recognize the country they grew up in but they know they have to adjust their way of thinking. They are having a difficult time. Some have come around, but certainly not nearly enough.
The problem lies with their party leaders and media whom they have always trusted and are now just realizing that they have been exploited by these people instead of being leaders who welcomed opening their hearts and minds to progress. It didn't happen.
I don't think people truly realize how much progress we have made in just 4 years with President Obama. Although everyone is beginning to. Everyone.
It's astounding really.
Perhaps the GOP/TP inventors could get some help from these Walmart auto enthusiasts, that have taken re-branding to a new extreme.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAsWaEBKpCY
and ...stuck on stuPig, in addition?
Both our political parties offer the same stale solution to every problem: More government
WHOA! Talk about an oxymoron! lol
Anyone else picking up the RWNJ's latest squawking point of calling liberals "low information voters"?
That's rich coming from the crowd who cornered the stuck on stupid market years ago!
Over the last few weeks I've come to believe that the most important message of Barack Obama is his repeated talk of "the difficult, shared work of self-government."
That's because one of the unarticulated strategies of the Conservative Movement has been to destroy the notion that our government is of "We the People." All of their rhetoric is about government as inherently flawed, inevitably incompetent, fundamentally useless at best, and under most circumstances a real danger to us. It's a deliberate attempt to separate us from OUR government so it can become a tool of the Oligarchs. It's working, too, with a significant number of people actually willing to consider taking up arms against their own government.
So given that I see the President's vision as not just inspiring, but actually critical to the ongoing health of the republic. It's a big deal, possibly the message that turns us away from the path we've been on since Reagan and back toward a better America.
Pat, great post as always. While the GOP will demonize the AHCA, it was a crowning achievement. Over 100 years and 11 presidents tried to get some form of health care reform, even to the fact we were next to last in achieving it. Obama got it done and it was a historic leap forward from health care based on financial status.
We are all the time vilifying China and other countries about their human rights violations, without even looking at our own. From slavery, to the genocide of the American natives. We have dirty hands, at least with this legislation we have moved forward. Way forward.
I'm totally with you and I am surprised there has not been more Establishment push back against the talking points using the word 'reinvent'.
To think that you are so off the beaten path that you must now be something that you were not before. Not refined, not need a little smoothing around the edges, no, none of those. They must reinvent.
Look at the AEI breaking out with the "...same old, same old stale solutions".
Just face it guys...there is no real energy in the GOP. There are a ton of people trying to make energy be there, but it just isn't. The GOP is more known for conservative entertainment making money off of it, being more interesting in old men poking around in the coochie coo of woman, finding fault with any group of people who don't look like them and think like them, more willing to send your sons and daughters off to fight a war at the drop of a hat and more interested in putting effort into taking things, be it in the form wage, benefits or the right to vote, than they are in giving things, namely giving opportunity to anyone who is not of them.
That is the summation of today's National and State level GOP Party.
Hi, Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
just morons (without oxygen), maybe?
Oxygen is so outdated too, I can't believe people still like it!
Any GOP person is a racist, period, so shut your damn faces you pigs!
All dems are smart, so don't even try to talk to a dem, you will be shot down like the pigs you are (sorry Pigotry)
Great post above, Pat!
That was the whole mantra of the GOP during the election. They REFUSE to face the fact that things have changed - both the problems and the solutions. Do they all still watch movies on Betamaxes and listen to music on their Sony Walkmans as well?
Lil Michelle - you clearly crawled out of your gutter. And, YOU of all people shouldn't be calling ANYONE pigs. But, clearly pigs are a huge step up from you.
Pat, as usual, great post!
Why Lil Michelle, I'm compelled to agree with you. Just look at the post at 2.1 - darkies!! Nuff said!!
I don't think anyone of the above posters actually know a republican. All they know is what they read about a republican, from democrats.
Layton, Johntho and John:
If you read today's news, you will see that the WH press are furious with the president for not allowing them onto private property as he played golf with Tiger Woods. It is really an indictment of where our media is today, and that's a problem - for them - not for us.
We have long ago gone on without them and President Obama I think has as well in his own little way. We have all seen the WH press conferences and they are well below what we expect from them. It is downright childish and totally not how we want our media to be viewed around the world.
They come across as ambitious but nothing else.
President Obama has accomplished something quite striking - he is the one person we the people are pulling for and he knows this. We aren't blind. We see the lies written and said about him. Daily. We know the GOP do not want to work with him.
So when he wants to accomplish things, he speaks to us and we in turn do what we have to do to help him get things done.
It's remarkable really. It's called We, the people. He has given us our voice back and we're using it.
john B in iowa..
the purpose of government is to observe and control. regardless of the foundations of government.. the agents will still be a seperate class from "we the people". That creates an advantaged "super class" of people; whom is empowered to observe and control under the guise of "government" the rest of us.
seems harmless as long as the observers and controls are those to which you agree with - access to low cost abortions perhaps.
but what if someone you dont like comes into that "super class" : those who favor say population control - 1 child policy - under the banner of enviromentalism. Now the government observes and controls forced abortions - YES - I understand the extreme posistion - but its not like its absent from humnaity - its the current policy of China.
As for the government changing - or the "super class" changing against your ideology it WILL happen. This article is about how the perviously Dominant ideology of government has finally changed, though a long process, and the "old gaurd" is out - and now yours is in place.
society changes - children that stoped singing bible songs, to listen to country music, to listen to Rock and Roll to listen to Rap music, to listen to Dub Step.. will one day be the agents of that Super class.. will their outlook towards you - as a senior "we the people" be aligned with your wishes??
The question you need to ask is do you REALLY want to build the foundations for this level of Observe and control government when it's NOT what you agree with. Since the only two true statemnts about government powers are
A) They will continually grow
B) the control of govermnent will change, someday, to those who oppose your views.
no one rules forever.
joshua
So, first, the new Republicans are going to pretend they had nothing to do with creating the income inequality that took off under Reagan, the federal debt from the Bush (R) years, the financial crisis brought about by deregulation, etc etc etc. How are they going to fix what they can't admit they broke?
Wow! "Let's reinvent ourselves by dropping the flat tax". Boy they're really pulling-out all the stops.
How about reinventing the GOP by dropping bigotry against gays?
How about reinventing themselves by honoring a woman's right to control her own body?
How about they stop pretending that America belongs only to Christians, despite what the Constitution says?
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
Oh yeah. Ol Rush-bo has been spouting this BS since the election....
It always give me a good laugh when I hear it
Study finds Fox News viewers more misinformed than non-news watchers - Detroit liberal | Examiner.com
my comment #1.11
Of course I like Feisty's post and I was talking about the conservative thinkers not just as oxymorons, but more as morons without oxygen.
Agree with you, Feisty . . . the fact-denying/science-denying evolution-is-a-lie-straight-from-the-pit-of-hell party thinks PROGRESSIVES are low-info voters? well, I guess that's just more fact-denying!
I personally hope they stay stupid through at least 2014 - it will be easier to vote them out & take back to House.
Meanwhile, We The People need to have President Obama's back, whoch is the only way I can see that he will get his agenda passed.
.
FORWARD! :-)
Granted, it was not like an exhaustive list was presented in the article, but with that said, I find it rather amusing that none of the typical 'chattering' class names were quoted as being any of the thought leaders of the Party.
They just recently announced that they were going to re-tool themselves WITHOUT changing any of their core principles or positions... So I guess in the short interim they've gotten feed-back on how THAT refreshing little truth didn't magically sprout wings and fly. So now it's on to the smoke and mirrors of newfanglishness...
They seem to fool less people each day and in the near future will run out of cling-ons and only represent 'merkin pipple after that point. And the 'merkin pipple are of course an even smaller and quickly dying "constitchency".
The republican party has been fully usurped by the "tea-party"... They can't hold offices within their own party without paying homage to the prevailing threat they themselves brought on board. The end result is a republican party with an incurable parasitic infection that sort of keeps it alive while continually threatening to either kill the host or separate from it, leaving it debilitated beyond redemption.
The American people are witness to this, and victimized by the death throes brought on by the disease. As with any dire situation of this sort, the only humanitarian choice is to kill the parasite and do our best to see that the patient is kept comfortable as they deal with the odds before them.
KC-agreed. I have asked it over and over again...when did the Bible become a science book??
"Conservative thinkers"? Kinda like saying Jewish Pope.
And all those fool Republicans that don't know that Obama WANTS the sequester to happen, cuz it pays for all his "voter benefits", hell he really has them fooled don't he? I mean, hell he even has them thinking that the sequester was THEIR idea, the idiots!
Obama is way too smart for republicans....
I love the comments from the liberal left FR posts as to what the Rep Party should and should not do. Rather than "reinvent" itself, conservatives need to be more involved in the media, attacking if necessary, the propoganda diseminated by the liberal media.
Too often we read of half-truths from the media about any subject, defaming if possible, anything conservative.
Already we have a media campaign focused on smearing Rubio for taking a drink of water. There is no mention of the words he spoke, only the water he drank. Meanwhile, the media and many on FR go out of the way to build on the Obama image of a man who can do no wrong.
Funny.
rotorhead1
Ever hear of the "Dean Scream"?
Whats good for the goose.....
Who wants to play guess the re-reg? lol
You mean Mr. Big Gulp?
@ Layton~
I'm pretty sure they listen on 8-tracks still.
"conservatives need to be more involved with the media..." Really? The fringe nut job branch of the Republican party OWNS the media. Fox News ring a bell? They are buying up newspapers like the San Diego Union and Tribune and turning them into flaming propaganda.
The really funny thing about it is that this same group does not know who Reagan was or what he did. They pay homage to their GOD Reagan, and don't realize that he raised taxes several times when he was in office. Doesn't fit the talking points.
The only hope for the Republican Party is that they run away from the religious (read that BIGOTS) zeaots that hold that party hostage. If they don't metaphorically purge the anti choice nutcases from the party, which is the same group that hates everyone who isn't a older white male, they will go the way of the Whigs.
'Reinvent'? 'Discard stale ideas'? What, there's actually somebody in the GOP who realizes there's a problem?
Well duh... Let's analyze this statement.
1. What, look out for somebody beside the rich? What a concept....
2. Welcome immigrants? Can you even imagine what they'll have to do to overcome years of demonizing immigrants before they'll be believed?
3. 'Common good'. This is fairly easily doable; simply quit acting like petulant children and actually work toward compromises instead of offering up stuff they know won't get by the Dems.
4. Social issues. Time to muzzle the right-to-lifers, NRA, bigots, religious nuts; you know, their base....
5. 'Science'. Yep, long past time to throw the ignorant religious wing of the GOP under the bus.
The GOP has pandered to their extremists for so long, this would represent a complete reversal. Should it be done? For the good of the country, you bet. Send the wackos back to the margins where they belong. In spite of the poor educational system in this country, the people are getting smarter and this stuff isn't flying any more.
Basically, the call is for a return to the GOP of the pre-Nixon 'southern stratagy' i.e. pretty much the current Democratic party....
Not true at all. I'll tell you what I find very interesting is that I have die-hard republican friends that couldn't bring themselves to vote for Romney in the last presidential election. What does that tell you about the state of the republican party?
Layton-3733410
Great post above, Pat!
That was the whole mantra of the GOP during the election. They REFUSE to face the fact that things have changed - both the problems and the solutions. Do they all still watch movies on Betamaxes and listen to music on their Sony Walkmans as well?
============
I must say, there really are few things worse than seeing the chattering class on t.v. take turns talking about how clearly <insert any political figure> that has been out of politics for 20/25+ years would allegedly conduct themselves in today's political environment.
I find it amusing the lack of admittance that it is much easier to talk about how political figures of the past were able to shape and mold political discourse so much easier, if for no other reason than there were only so few outlets for people to get their information and form an opinion for themselves. It was basically so much easier to 'tell' people what to do and think, because frankly, ignorance was bliss. Today, no such leverage exist.
If in the next 20 years the best that conservatives can do is say "hey, what did Speaker Boehner do in 2012 and the best answer is that '....well, he quoted what Reagan would have done in 1984...' what exactly is that supposed to say about the conservative movement of today?
Just an observation - Seems every time a Republican talks reform and change within the party there is a rash of comments about how awful the party is, without saying anything about the positive aspect of what the subject reformer has proposed. Often times change is precipitated by defeat, rejection - this applies to many disciplines in life. Just because a percieved need for change is precipitated by negative circumstances does not necessarily make it insincere. I often get an impression many posters here simply don't want the GOP to change. I know that can not possibly be true, for in the absence of a viable third party the extinction of the Republican Party would result in one party government, and that just isn't American now, is it?!
Intelligent opposition leads to constructive debate which leads to beneficial compromise. We need this, desperately.
Stop badmouthing women.
Stop badmouthing Hispanics.
Stop badmouthing blacks.
Stop badmouthing gays
Stop badmouthing people who are paid by the hour.
Stop badmouthing unions
Stop badmouthing teachers.
Stop badmouthing firemen.
Stop badmouthing policemen.
Stop badmouthing poor people.
Stop badmouthing college graduates (Rick Santorum)
Stop badmouthing anyone who disagrees with you about anything.
Stop badmouthing the media (constantly)
Stop badmouthing mainstream churches.
Stop badmouthing atheist.
Stop badmouthing Muslims.
Stop badmouthing science
Stop sucking up to Rush the Junkie.
Stop sucking up to Fox Propaganda.
Stop sucking up to crazy conspiracy theorist.
Stop sucking up to Glen Beck
Stop sucking up to the crazies of the crazies at the NRA.
Stop sucking up to fundamentalist so called "Christian" ministers.
Stop talking about rape.
Stop talking about a whole wide range of subjects you know nothing about.
Stop your 60 year whineathon about the “liberal” media.
Find something to sell other than fear, fear and more fear.
Call out your crazies like Michelle Backnamm.
Call out your crazies like the Donald.
Call out your crazies like Sarah Palin.
Call out your crazies Rick Santorum.
Call out your crazies like Ted Nugent.
Call out your crazies like Wayne LaPierrer
Call out the birthers among your own.
Call out flagrant racism among your own.
Stop trying to win electing by making it harder to vote.
Stop trying to win electing by changing the way votes are counted.
Stop your hypocrisy.
Admit you are NOT losing elections because of voter fraud.
Either stop telling everyone how much you love the Constitution or stop trying to amend the Constitution time after time after time.
Understand you need a whole lot more than a “cosmetic” makeover. What you need is a TOTAL MAKEOVER.
Well that is just CRAZY! There is nothing good about the Rpubs, they are all idiots! they think that someone who pays for a HARVARD education should have a better chance in life than someone going to a community college to learn the VERY SAME THING!
They think that their kids will have to pay back all this debt we are running up, what they don't know is that Democrats will continue to kick the can down the road so that OUR kids' kids will be wondering what the hell happened!
As long as Dems are in charge, there is no paying off the debt, idiots! You almost feel sorry for those idiot republicans, the damn racist white trash!
So let me get this straight. Republicans should forget their morals , turn their back on their GOD and turn to Science, turn their back on the Americans who have been here for 50 or 60 years paying 40% of their income in taxes, welcome every Illegal immigrant that crosses the border looking for whatever it is hes looking for, hate all Rich people ,especially the white ones and ignore the Constitution? Well if they do all of that then they will no longer be Conservative Republicans, they will be Democrat's.
Stick to your Morals and beliefs GOP , 2016 will be here before you know it , by then the American people will have woken up to all the lies they are being feed. They will see their taxes increase and jobs fade away. If they don't , then GOD help us all.......
Nice to see the party of dimwits out there campaigning for Obama! Look at the popular vote and then take away the fraud votes (Ohio & ???) and you are at a tie.
I am sure all of the dimwits love going to work and taking out loans to be able to provide freebies for illegal aliens that they think are their future votes.
United States of America, Land of the Freebies
Cher, provide a source for what you wrote.
Joe: the Republicans forgot their morals way YONDER long ago.
Lil Michelle ...
So which is it? Nothing good about Republicans or the Democrats don't believe in paying off the debt? And what ARE you smoking today???? Some crazy posting going on in LM-land!
NDD
You know Cher has NO FACTS to back up her statement. They only want to count votes in Red States,...not ALL of the Heathen States, too!
Sheesh. You'd think they'd get on with it already. This almost four month hissy fit is so last year.
Lil Michelle said,
"Any GOP person is a racist"
What a deep comment from such a shallow mind!!
A perfect example of a low information voter!!
It amuses me that the right, all comfy in their reality-distortion field, still insists that Obama and Democrats give more stuff away than people do in other developed countries. They insist that the Republican way is the norm in the rest of the civilized world and that Democrats are going out of their way to make this country a place of free stuff.
Most other developed countries have a far more extensive social safety net. They have universal healthcare, often single-payer. They have decent public transportation. They actively combat poverty. They invest serious money into public primary and secondary education. They do, you know, all that stuff that Democrats have tried to do that the right calls "freebies" but haven't been able to implement because, again, the right has convinced Americans that it's normal to live in a country without universal healthcare, without decent public transportation, with a public-education system that doesn't even rank in the world's top 15, and with astonishing social equality. Yeah, sure, righties, those are the things that define a "developed country," aren't they?
Isn't it the truth, Clara? And they run away as soon as they are asked.
joe - nobody said people have to turn their back on God or their morals. The liberals I know are ten times more Christian than Republicans like you who constantly put everyone down who isn't as backward as you are. And, frankly, as far as morals go, no party has a lock on them. There are people in both parties who have strong morals and those who don't.
Just remember the group trying to get Clinton impeached - all the GOP members were having their own extra-marital affairs - every one of them. Conservatives ARE NOT the people of morals that you and others pretend they are.
The rest of your rant is just that - just as ignorant as ever!
Cher - prove there were fraudulent votes! Prove it! And, I can certainly post that there were just as many for Romney! Get a clue - your party is the party of losers and is going down lower every day!
Of course it's only "liberals" who disseminate propaganda. Everything conservatives is always absolute truth.
And we'll see a return to the 19th Century. The good old days, where women and "darkies" knew their place.
I think Cher may need to google Nina Turner....
Ron - Portland
Agreed. Let's add to the list though:
@ Amy ME
the financial crisis brought about by deregulation, etc etc etc
The deregulation was brought to us by Carter and Clinton, with the "We the People" folks like Hank Paulson, Larry Sommers, Alan Greenspan, Robert Rubin, Arthur Leavitt, Tim Geitner, and others refusing to listen to what was going to happen as early as 1994.
You can continue to deny this was the primary tool that was used, but I'm much smarter than that
Zappas - apparently you're NOT much smarter, than anything. You managed to leave out Reagan who was instrumental in the financial problems we face. Oh, I forgot, not allowed to tell the truth about dear Reagan, are we?
How Gwaddamn insulting and very republican of these writers. Surely the American people wouldn't buy it again. New shoes on a lame horse only serves to better illustrate the cripple.
ZappasUtopia - You are correct sir. Dr. Paul called it. People are deaf.
"So let me get this straight. Republicans should forget their morals"
Republicans only know two letters in the Alphabet, how Stupid of them !!!
@ Seeking
Why would you infer that I loved Reagunz at all? I didn't vote for him either time. Why would I, I just could never got into the fanfare of "this is our savior" then as I do now.
Mark in SoCal: I agree. Just last night I told my husband that I sincerely wish the Republican party would get it together-WE THE PEOPLE need the balance between liberal and conservative. I read a book by Meghan McCain (John McCain's daughter) and I believe she and others like her are the kind of NEW Republicans that perhaps will save the G.O.P...........
Time has come for the Republicans to let our President Clean up GWB mess !!!
Cher - you forgot to reverse the 12 million votes for Obama that were tallied for Romney by the Romney owned voting machines. That makes it a landslide for Obama. Don't believe me? Why it is listed as fact, right along that factoid that fraud votes are in the millions.
I read somewhere this morning that Joe Scarborough was complaining today about President Obama not reaching out to Republicans.
Sam Stein tweet this morning:
Senior adm official says WH staff has net with gang of 8 staff 5 times in last few weeks on immigration reform. Rubio staffer was there.
______________
When is the lying GOING TO STOP?!
@ Charlie
There sure is alot of crap they've gotten themselves into. But I just don't get what the problem is with showing a valid ID when you vote. I do it every time. Doesn't bother me at all.
http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-facts-figures
You "low information" republican pukes make me sick. YOU are the cause of all our problems. The party of crazy, lazy and don't have a clue.
So, basically, the Republicans better start acting and talking a lot more like Democrats or they don't stand a chance of ever getting back in power.
I just don't see that happening. Too many of the GOP core base will not go along with any of these suggestions. They'd rather go down fighting than give up what they feel are their core values. Unless the far right core splits off into its own third party, I really don't see the GOP making those kinds of drastic changes.
Regardless, these type of changes may take more than a few years to be taken as real and not just a temporary ploy to win the White House back in 2016, so unless the GOP is truly committed to them as long term policy and at all levels, it could backfire and they could lose even more support.
So, "lil michelle" the proven liar continues to drag down the Republican party.
Until the Republican Party takes it's giant collective foot and introduces it to the rear ends of the likes of "lil michelle" and "cher", they will continue to lose. When you have complete ignorant, hateful trash be your mouthpiece, it becomes harder and harder to find a viable place in a civilized society.
With all that has been said and done over the past 12 years, I can not see how it is possible for the Republican Party to redeem itself.
ok fr feisty, play the guessing game if you will.
now how would a person be identified a re-reg if you didn't have access to information that is according to FR, private data.
Could you be on the FR payroll? Anything to promote the ratings with your comments?
Tickity Tock... ;o)
Paranoid much? lol
Enjoy it while you can...
Fiesty ... just a guess here but I think ol' rotorhead was "liberals want your money" last week (who was banned) who was Damage (and banned) prior to that . . . .
I see the conundrum here... the writers used the words "Conservative" and "thinkers" not only in the same sentence, but right damn next to each other!
Wow, the Queen of Censorship has given me a ticky-tock! And no, I'm not in the least paranoid, just interested in how you obtain data from the managers at FR.
Care to answer that or how your IP address is the same as that of FR?
Or, would you care to address how you can use vile words to demean others and not be removed for Code of Honor violations?
Care to answer that question fr?
Well, if I'm removed, Feisty is the official censor.
WOA! how about that revisionist / alternate reality. Really man what color is that sky in your world.
Republicans pasted the Commodities Futures Modernazation Act creating debt default swaps, derivatives and the Enron loophole. They passed the The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, named after republican senator Gramm, that deregulated banks. In the process getting rid of Glass/Steagal act. And in turn they passed changes to the Community Reinvestment Act.
When states, like Georgia wanted to start regulating subprime loans, the Bush Administration told them it was a federal issue. Ya-know state control is lip service.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqQx7sjoS8
And so on.
Layton,
Actually it's the old troll, BrianB!
You can smell the stench wafting off him from a mile away! ;o)
Remember the guy who swore up and down he hadn't been banned?
They aren't the sharpest tools in the shed... lol
NO!
Feisty is just good at sniffing out the cheaters...
Uh, uh Dingle.
"Stop with irrational military offense, and go back to maintaining a strong national defense
I can agree to some of this but a couple of things bother me. Explain any way in hades that the Fair Tax is in any way fair? It only benefits the very rich even more then now, google the "unfair tax" for a list of con's, I know it sounds right, but the fair tax isn't. The only fair tax is the progressive income tax. To fund the government and its services the rich must pay more because they benefit more. Google "Ross Perot" you can see what I mean, there are thousands of examples. Not saying there shouldn't be watch dog, republicans have really never been good for that. They spend more then democrats only cut taxes to cover it. At least Democrats pay at for their stuff, and their stuff benefits people not corporations. I always thought republicans/Libertarians were just waiting to see if they can kick a man while he is down.
End the fed, I heard that dozens of times. However I never see one thing to replace its role in our lives and the void would make it every man for himself and screw the poor. Not going to happen in your lifetime.
Wong again as usual Feisty, but that shouldn't be a surprise.Care to answer the previous questions?
Why do you and FR share the same IP address?
How can you break the FR Code of Conduct rules and still remain alive on FR?
I said;
RevengeofPodus replied;
See how that works?
I see Slodon wants to throw True the Vote out there as a source. Let's see what we can find out about the source;
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/True_the_vote
Just another Conservative propaganda mill...who would have expected that? The John Birch Society raises its ugly head again, like the zombie it is.
rotorhd
Stalk/troll much?
In other words...become Democrats...yep, that'll work.
Two *wongs* don't make it right....
How about proving I'm *wong* again? Still lmao@u
Why are you sweating profusely little buddy?
"Conservative thinkers: GOP should cut 'stale' policies loose."
Hear, hear!! I personally would welcome a 6- to 8-month hiatus from the voices of Messrs. Boehner, McConnell, McCain, etc.
Might even get things accomplished quicker in Congress for a change.
John B, Des Moines, IA
Why not? I'm sure the organizations are funded by the same family.
I am quit confident President Obama can kill the penny given his track record.
Unemployment still 7.9% and the participation rate at an all time low and the national debt growing by leaps and bounds. Taxes are up and wait until you see next years health insurance premium jump. How about the current rocket ride in gas prices? So much confidence that President Obama can kill the penny...he already helped kill the economy.
Next
I think, if we're discussing "rotorhead's" philosophy, the term would be more like:
Not surprised to see the gold standard being brought up. After all, how is big government going to continue paying for domestic porkulus, welfare handouts, foreign aid, warmongering, and overseas interventionism if it can't print trillions of fiat bills?
Seaskip, are those two letters N.O? or F.U?
If the republican party took this opinion piece to heart, they would quickly regain the White House. Fortunately (I am a democrat) the republican party is controlled by the obstructionist wingnut Tea Party.
Notsosure10
Despite being "quit (sic) confident," you're still incorrect (and representing your screen moniker well, I might add)
When Mr. Bush took office in February of 2001, the rate was 4.2% but had risen to 8.2 percent when he left office in February of 2009. That's a change of 95.2%, nearly double.
Now, after 4+ years of cleaning up the shambles that was the Bush presidency, unemployment is, as you cite, 7.9%, below that when President Obama took office.
Dontcha just hate facts?!
And if any president wants to "control gas prices," I have an excellent suggestion: Nationalize the petroleum industry, from drilling to transport to refinery to pump. Then your claim of presidential control would actually pack some punch.
The Republican Party should abandon its pursuit of low-information voters, with their inherent racist, xenophobic and anti-science attitudes.
As a Democrat, I believe government can play a positive role in society. Instead of denying that certain problems exist, such as climate change, a crumbling infrastructure or inadequate education opportunities for all children, Republicans should advocate for real solutions, based on their free-market principles.
A four step program with five steps! Until the Republicans learn simple arithmetic, they shouldn't try to tackle other issues...such as policy!
Lil Michelle
Funny, I find myself agreeing with you... the average Community College graduate would be able to run the country better than Harvard-educated Oblunder....
...or fight two wars (one completely unnecessary), pass a big pharma giveaway (Medicare Part D), pass tax cuts for the wealthy (borrowing money to pay for all of the above)...
1.4O "Republicans should forget their morals , turn their back on their GOD and turn to Science"
Yes please, the sooner you do this the sooner we ALL can move forward.
Fed Up-2683606
So, are you a Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld supporting Neoconservative who never saw a war he didn't want to spend money on or a "keep UR guvmint out of my Medicare" Teabagger?
Gerson and Wehner prescribed a four-step process (counting not a necessary skill, it seems...there are five steps) for the GOP: Republicans, they wrote, must first renew their focus “on the economic concerns of working-and middle-class Americans;” second, “welcome rising immigrant groups;” third, “express and demonstrate a commitment to the common good;” fourth, “engage vital social issues forthrightly but in a manner that is aspirational rather than alienating;” and fifth, “harness their policy views to the findings of science.”
So.....the way to "fix" the republican party....is to abandon all republican policies and adopt the democrat policies?
Yeah...ok. That could work.
And what about dropping your stale social policies?
The time and money wasted to ban gay marriage is a ridiculous sum considering the amount of "damage" it does to society. Even if every single homosexual in the United States paired up and got kids, they could never come close to the amount of damage heterosexuals and single mothers do to traditional families and traditional marriage. Yet I never see a complaint from Republicans about heterosexuals seeking state marriage licenses without a religious ceremony (devoid of God) or take ANY kind of political action against single mothers or foster care system that place children in non-traditional homes. They only time they'll complain about that is when the foster/ adoptive parent is gay.
Many heterosexuals pair up and never get married at all, yet gays will destroy marriage? Look inward people.
What about abortion, a woman's right to her own body and the personhood initiative? All the right platform EVER says is that government will screw up everything, hence how Obamacare will kill us, yet they seem absolutely convinced that the government can constitutionally and CORRECTLY enforce abortion bans that won't cause issues for women, that won't become a failed policy of women seeking illegal abortions anyway, and thus not actually saving babies, and most importantly, the notion that people will change their behavior and values to accomodate a law. That is the constant argument against socialism and gun control- people will not change their values and behavior to accomodate a government system.
Yet, apparently, banning abortion will change people and save people. Just like how Prohibition stopped people from drinking alcohol.
I am beating a dead horse here, but many pro-lifers completely missed on how damaging Akins Rape comment could have been if ENACTED INTO LAW.
"Well you know, people always want to try to make that as one of those things, well how do you, how do you slice this particularly tough sort of ethical question. First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child."
If the government defined that when rape occurs the female body prevents a pregnancy from happening, then that means rape victims should never become pregnant from a rape encounter. If that was considered true, if a woman does become pregnant from a rape, then by law how can someone be charged with rape and how is she a rape victim? By law it's stating that if a pregnancy occurs it must have been consensual. What about girls and women being raped multiple times from family members? The likelihood of a unwanted pregnancy goes up with every rape. Is the female body going to shut it down every time, or is a woman consenting if she doesn't seek help after the first encounter?
In your desperation to prevent rape victims from getting abortions, your arguments can have grave law enforcement consequences if your ideas and policies were being enforced. This is your problem, not financial responsibility, not people wanting handouts, not the Fed or the gold standard.
Those is not the policies of the Republicans I have an issue with. It's your hypocrisies regarding Gay marriage and your desire to control my body and the lengths you'll go to get it. If government is out to get me, you are part of the problem.
Not only the stale ones but the unhonorable ones also.
John B, Des Moines,
Your articulation that
is a succinct analysis of how much certain heavy weight individuals of Corporate America are striving to establish full control over the American (and global) material assets by turning the rule of law into the rule of (particular) men.
Thank you for your concise description.
Because none of you seem to know the difference between a Conservative and a Liberal. Here is the difference. Please take the time to read it.
www.studentnewsdaily.com/conservative-vs-liberal-beliefs/
Nice bit of Conservative propaganda pretending to be an unbiased comparison. Let's let one of the lions who helped create our modern society speak for himself;
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/fdrthefourfreedoms.htm
There are very few genuine intellectuals in the Republican Party. There are very few genuine conservatives in the Republican Party.
This abomination that is called the Republican Party today is defined and controlled by low-intellect malcontents and ideologues.
The "leadership" of the Republican Party, such as it is, is now reaping what it has sown. The harvest is one of dogmatics who cannot grasp simple arithmetic, misogynists, control freaks, talibangelicans, misnamed pro-lifers, and pity-me victims.
Good luck reforming that mix of crazies.
"Darkies"????
It's not 1950 any more. Please feel free to join us in the 21st Century.
OMG Alias! I can't believe that post was even allowed! Disgusting!
(Oh, but I see you are fresh out of the NV box this month. I'm sure you'll be banned yet again.)
How do you re-brand the Party of Persecution. They tried that once with Pro-Life, but it was an epic fail. What's next, Pro-Freedom Worker, where everyone works for free. Perhaps Pro-Entitlement, where you get free entitlements once you achieve a ranking within the 1% club. How about Pro-Women, where all women are treated equally as 2nd class citizens. Here is a winner, Anti-Gun Violence, where mistreating your gun is punishable by life imprisonment.
Some of the GOP Leaders are part of the Lame-Stream, not main-stream. So Lame.
But the majority of Republicans are having enough common sense,, but have remained the 'silent majority.'
Harrison -
This, my friends, is the type of mindset that has dragged the Republican party into its current downward spiral. Hate and fear, mis-information and more fear, plus a little more hate.
Great work Harrison, you just proved whats wrong with today's republican party.
Move to Sweden if you don't like immigrants or people of color. This is the wrong country for you. But guess what - They are socialists there - so I guess you're screwed either way.
Alias, You are insulting and obnoxious. Please take your hated somewhere else.
David,
The left is full of psuedo intellectualism, just like the right. Neither side can see their own hypocracy, hate, and failed logic.
I've spent time on both side's blogs and I would tell you there is far more vinegar on the left than the right.
David, Alias can't help himself. This is the stuff he's been hearing inside the Republican Party for years and years.
Alias - I'm so glad you posted today. It shows everyone how sick and behind the times Republicans like you are. You are stuck in the 17th Century and - on top of it - would have been considered a low life then, too. It is good to have disgusting neanderthals like you around to remind us of how far this country has come and that there are still cave dwellers like you out there refusing to come into the 21st century.
I suspect Alias is really a liberal troll trying to create drama. Sure made this board light up didn't it.
Keep drinking the coolaid, some day you'll realize it was made with sewer water......but it will be too late.
I would start my screen name with "Alias" too... If I was too stupid to understand that the rest of the world already assumed that part...
At least it chimed in in such a fashion as to be immediately recognized by the person that recently banned it.... AND fully supported Mr Walkers' point while supposedly railing against it...
All in all... Nice of you to pop in and remind everyone just how brightly the fires of hatred still burn in the enclaves.
No foks
"Rules for radicals"
Pose as the opposition to make your point a reality.
Don't collapse "Alias'" post. EVERYONE needs to see who it is that claims membership as a Republican.
"Please feel free to join us in the 21st Century.'
Republicans think this is the 19th century.
Alias Harrison J Bounel
Were you speaking of the Dem base ?
You know, Deadbeats , beggars, losers, illegials and darkies. Throw in corrupt Unions and large companies that worship Dear leader and get to pay ZERO taxes (Facebook, GE)
THESE are the people that's held in such high esteem ?
LOL
next cretin ?
Alias Harrison J Bounel,
Whatever meteorite or climate change hit your alien ass did some serious trauma . You are probably being treated right now, tax free, in some county hospital for DDD (Attention Deficit Disorder!!!)
The funny thing is RWNJs like "DB Akron" continue to push the crazy, in this case- a conspiracy of liberals posing as conservative trolls...too funny how deluded, crazy, and ignorant conservatives like DB are.
No DB, Alias stated exactly what the racist, ignorant, conservatives believe...and like the typical conservative, you don't take responsibility for the racism and ignorance that is the foundation of contemporary conservative dogma. Actually, when is the last time a conservative took responsibility for any of the numerous lies, misstatements, or outright stupid policies they promoted.
JXC - The funny thing is RWNJs like "DB Akron" continue to push the crazy, in this case- a conspiracy of liberals posing as conservative trolls...too funny how deluded, crazy, and ignorant conservatives like DB are.
That's all they have to hang their hats on - lies and ignorance!
"Alias" seems to be a re-reg troll.
Alias behaves as if intelligence were some sort of hideous deformity.”
Alias Harrison J Bounel = Lib Plant
@ Bev
That is correct DDD (Dementia Deficit Disorder) I knew you meant ADD, but I corrected it. Apparently he isn't fully there yet. Damn close though. lol
Alias -
Back into the formaldehyde jar for you!
Morgs74 - no Alias is just another demented Republican - pretty much like you!
Oh Bev, how's that Jessie Jr. and his wife doing with their upcoming trials?
Interesting that "db" and "morgs" try to pretend that "alias" is a "lib plant"...and yet neither of them stood up in condemnation of what "alias" wrote. I have to say, as disgusting as he/she is, at least "alias" is honest about their true feelings. It's the people like 'db" and "morgs" that are wearing the white hoods.
On that note, thank you, Zappas..., for proving that, despite our political ideologies, racism has no place in either party. ("db" and "morgs" could learn from you, if they are even capable...)
Unfortunately, Republicans are stuck in 1776, They haven't figured out yet, it is 2013.
DB Akron
Try explaining that to the American People once again...clearly they didn't hear you during the last election. Your party is going down in flames, it fact, the pilot kicked in the afterburner! There are those trying to salvage your party, but your party won't hear of it. They are hell-bent on purifying the party...even if there are only two of them left.
DB, I work with people like alias all day long, that is exactly the way they think and exactly the way they talk, though "darkie" is a bit tame compared to the terms they use. I have to listen to these wingnuts spew hatred everyday, they verbally threaten the life of every liberal on the planet simply because the conservative loud mouths like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh have them convinced that they are the reason this country is circling the drain. You can pretend that you side is only filled with intelligent, literate, hard working patriots if it helps you sleep at night but I live behind enemy lines and I know the truth, the true base of the republican party are racist, uneducated, violent, paranoid trailer trash who milk the system for every dime they can.
Best wishes to the GOP in its effort to be a true party of all Americans. But if their eyes are always on the money, then, I guess, it might be hard.
Because none of you seem to know the difference between a Conservative and a Liberal. Here is the difference. Please take the time to read it.
www.studentnewsdaily.com/conservative-vs-liberal-beliefs/
Spamming doesn't make your lies true, but thanks for giving me the opportunity to let one of the world's great Liberals speak again;
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/fdrthefourfreedoms.htm
I heard often during the last election that the Republican Party wants to "TAKE BACK AMERICA."
Unfortunately, they want to take America back to the 50's, the 1750's, when women and anyone who was not a patrician land owner did not have a voice, let alone a vote.
There is nothing wrong with conservative fiscal policy, so long as it is not joined by unthinking adherence to an agenda intent on the destruction of the social policies of the country which have made it possible for generations to move out of poverty and even into the highest earners in the country.
Three things that have worked and worked well, Social Security, Medicare and the GI Bill for college education do not need to be dismantled while unwanted, wasteful, unnecessary, pork laden increases in defense spending go unchallenged.
corproate welfare and corporate socialism broke everything.
Banksters misbehaved, having destroyed US and world economy, but got bailed out - corproate welfare.
GW Bush's welfare expansion - prescription drug benefit law gave away billions to big pharmaceuticals who didn't need the money - by making sure that the federal government can't negotiate drug prices. But the federal government is the largest buyer of prescription drugs in the world - can't negotiate prescription drug prices ? -giving away billions to big pharma, adding more to debt and deficit.
.
How about all the subsidies and other tax loopholes for major corporations?
Socialism is only good if it's for corporations, but the unemployed can't get help after being hurt by the recession that is not their fault
... and yet remains the richest country in the world. Don't ya hate it when that happens?
SS = ponzi scam = Tim Geithner
I believe it was Rick Perry who made that analogy. Just my opinion: anybody quoting Rick Perry as a source of credibility should either move to Texas and fit right in, or have their head examined.
Upset
Texas has the most consistent job growth and the #1 location companies trying to stay in America move to.
Now, which is smarter?
DB - don't know where you're getting your info but Texas IS NOT the #1 location for companies moving to in the US. Try again. And, job growth but only if you count minimum wage jobs as really a good gage of job growth.
Of course the number of jobs created in Texas has been astronomical.
They are well aware that you can hire two people to work 25 hours each, avoid any over time and not have to pay any benefits.
Each of those people has to work 4 part time jobs just to get above the poverty line.
But hey, keep that job growth going!!!
DB -
Get off Fox Noise. Not only are your stats misguided (at best), but here are some facts for you about the great state of Texas:
1. Greatest percentage of residents without health insurance in the nation.
2. Lowest level of education in public schools in the nation (surpassing Mississippi) ...Great work.
3. Highest level of incarceration per capita in the United States.
4. Top 5 in percentage of residents on the dole.
5. Top 5 in Crime. First by far in death penalty executions - greater than the rest of the nation combined.
6. Top 5 in income inequality in the nation.
Sounds like a great place if you can adjust to the bigotry, drought, ignorance and hate.
When GW Bush and Rick Perry policy is defended by the populace, I run away.
Seeking REALITY,
I personally believe earning minimum is a better solution than unemployment. I guess one's position on this issue depends heavily of whether or not they a taker or a producer.
The fact that some people find it easier to collect from the government than work for a living tells me they are not even worth paying more than minimum wage..
Take some initiative people.....quit waiting for the government to "get" you that job. It's called WORK for a reason....
Bombzz17 - ignorant post but nothing we don't expect. People cannot live on minimum wage. And, those "takers" as idiots like you like to call people, are often working 2 jobs just to keep a roof over their heads.
I'm sickened by the ignorance of people like you who continue to talk about people "finding it easier to collect from the government." Apparently your friends are just like you - no brains and lazy. MOST Americans want to work and will do anything to get a job. They just believe they should make enough to be able to eat to.
Oh, and idiot - I work and do well. However, I'm not STUPID like you and your ilk. I KNOW people would prefer to work at a good job anytime over getting assistance from the government.
Grow up and try to at least PRETEND to have some common sense! And, clearly you're seeking reality because your post shows you don't KNOW anything about anything. Again proving my point, there is no sanity to be found in the Republican party - just ignorance and hatred. My God please don't procreate!
"Texas has the most consistent job growth"
That's because the population is growing and oil. Oil has always been a boob-bust cycle in Texas and elsewhere. Also ---most of the job growth in Texas are tax supported jobs -- policemen, firemen, teachers, etc.
alan_static
static,
You are mistaken; ponzi scheme equals manufactured GOP CRISIS.
Charlie - you are incorrect. The jobs are coming from CA and union states. Employers realize that costs are cheaper in Texas.
Upset & Seeking Sanity
You are great examples of why the left is so pathetic.
#1 - I do not visit fox. I'm on NBC & Yahoo.
#2 - the Minimum wage story you chose to believe was from all far left sources (Daily KOS) which conveninently deleted the 4 major metropolitan areas of Texas where most of the manufacturing has been moving to get their statistics!
http://econscius.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/stellar-texas-job-growth-in-above-average-wage-cities/
Clearly you don't visit the job hunt sites. Most higher wage jobs offered ARE in Texas, also in the 4 major metropolitan areas.
Here's who has gained the most manufacturing jobs in the US
http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/10/smallbusiness/manufacturing-jobs/index.html
It stands to reason that if you add the most jobs in manufacturing, you will also add the most minimum wage jobs which are supported by the higher paying jobs.
Notice folks, no Fox news articles.
Major job growth in Texas IS minimum wage jobs. The good jobs are going to states like NC and actually Utah. Texas isn't even in the top ten for job growth with good jobs! Utah, Arizona, Florida, NC - all have better job growth in higher paying jobs - according to Kiplinger - and other souces!
Try again - you're still wrong!
Bombzz17
BZZZZZZZ,
Learn something!
People work and take from the government; starting with the miscreants in the Republican Congress who come to work; but when they come to work; they DON'T work. On the hand, people work minimum wage jobs and can hardly survive without government subsides; courtesy of the Republican Congress NOT working. Rather they are intent on destroying America with guns, drugs, violence, lack of healthcare, and no viable living wage jobs or NO jobs at all.
Oh, Yeah I forgot the latest report from Texas A & M University
http://recenter.tamu.edu/pdf/1862.pdf
Bottom lines
Texas
Increase in Non-Farm employment 2.5%, the US 1.4%
Increase in Private employment 2.9%, the US 1.7%
December Texas unemployment Seasonally adjusted 6.1% down from 7.4% december 2012
December US unemployment seasonally adjusted 7.8% down from 8.5%
Your left wing rhetoric is worthless!
Wow SS - you're on fire today. Lay off the carbs!
DB - oh yeah - quote from a Texas school because clearly they have NO vested interest! LOL!
Seeking
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/headlines/20121213-dallas-fed-expects-texas-job-growth-to-continue-in-2013.ece
Texas is doing far better than your scoffing left wing bigoted news sources are saying.
If you believe that government welfare is a desirable alternative to working, try an intellectual exercise. Google your state's welfare benefits (cash and food stamps) and try to imagine how well you could support yourself and your family on the dole. Don't forget to break that food stamp budget down to a daily basis.
yeah, but who wants to actually LIVE in Texas?
Well golly, "db" - Since you pretend to know so much, please tell us why, if Rick Perry's Texas is such a utopia, your idiot party of boneheads did not nominate him as the Republican candidate for the Presidency?
One would think, with such tremendous losers such as Bachmann, Cain, Romney, Gingrich and Santorum, that your little superstar Perry with the stellar record should have flown right to the top! Please explain to us why your party was too stupid to nominate your miracle worker.
Stale Policies? Their brand of TEA appears to have a short shelf life.
It's awfully hard to win elections when your approval rating is barely above single digits.
A strong opposition party is good for America, but the current GOP has nobody that will work for the people, and rather they work for reelection. They court the very rich, and large corporation in order to get the money that is necessary to be reelected. The history of the G.O.P. since at least 1992 has been, dirty deeds done dirt cheap, as they have tried and in some cases been able to alter the elections due to misinformation and down right dirty tricks. Now the democratic party has a need to over come the gerrymandering in order to send a message to the republican party that crime really doesn't pay, and they need to get back to the same things the republican party stood for.
How many times did I hear in my younger years "we have the same goals, we just have a different view as to how to get there." Compromise was possible with this mind set. We need to return to having the same goals and it should be the moving forward of this country, not moving backward to a place that doesn't work.
If the Repubs would become more like Democrats, we could all live happily ever after.
"A strong opposition party is good for America, but the current GOP has nobody that will work for the people,"
We do need two strong parties on this nation. But the GOP is not trying to win with ideas; they are trying to win by restricting voting, gerrymandering districts and changing the way votes are counted.
Actually, if we didn't have two extremes here we'd all be a lot better off.
Compromise is not a dirty word.
No Charlie.
Gerrymandering is done by each party and has long been considered one of the prizes for winning, so your point is pointless.
As far as voter suppression let me just say that the UN observers invited in by the Democratic Party were appalled that voters they saw were not required to use a photo ID. Something the Democratic Party has fought against.
I don't care for the UN, but if the UN thinks voter ID should be required, then they must consider it as VOTER FRAUD SUPPRESSION!
"As far as voter suppression let me just say that the UN observers invited in by the Democratic Party were appalled that voters they saw were not required to use a photo ID"
I have NO problem with a photo idea to vote. My problem is with the kind of ID some states wanted. For example -- in some states, the same ID that allows you to buy a gun, buy a drink, get on an airplane, do just about anything is NOT valid for voting.
And -- Republicans are NOT losing election due to voter fraud, they're losing because they're not appealing to the 21st century voter.
They can sell the stale ideas at half price, like Ebinger's bakery in the last century, which incidentally is where many of those ideas come from.
I doubt if my posting a half baked joke would get a rise and there is not much dough in the job. Yeast I don't think so.
Dangerfield, I haven't heard Ebinger's bakery in years. It was my Mom's favorite. You brought a smile to my face this afternoon.
Llsa-
We used to wait in line for their "day-old" ide...er, cakes...
BCWC...their "blackout" cake was a childhood delicacy...They made great Black and Whites too...
Dangerfield, Your right about their Black and Whites. the best.
oh, I miss black and white cookies
It's been a long time since Ozzie and Harriet lived down the street, but throughout the election, folks were screaming to "TAKE AMERICA BACK" (presumably to that era). So it might be a bit harder than just saying the GOP needs to adopt more mainstream views when its base is kicking and screaming to live in the past.
Let us not forget that Ricky Nelson did commit suicide. Life with Ozzie and Harriet certainly wasn't the utopia that the propaganda posing as a sit-com would have us believe. The GOP is attempting to take us back to a time that never really existed...a time where everything was white washed and no one talked about anything. How many cases of abuse, molestation, rape, etc., went unpunished simply because no one dared talk about it?
This is where Republicans want to take us to?? Well...Given that this is the party of Vitter, Sanford, Foley, Craig, Ensign, Delay and Gingrich, etc., etc., etc., I can understand why.
Sure, and they're going to let some ivory-tower interlectials tell them what to believe! Oh wait those are GOP interlectials....?? How did that happen??
It appears that even conservatives are now calling for a decrease in adherence to spending within one's means. Currency manipulation and devaluation are now virtuous.
Excuse me...pray tell when did the republican party propose a balanced budget?
True. The difference between both parties is like the difference between a Red and Golden Delicious apple. They are both apples, and very much alike though they claim to be quite different.
so true Alan so true...a pox on both their houses
You could stop the fascination with the female body and controlling it as a 'state' asset...or rid your party of the redneck racists that think the amendments concerning religion and guns are paramount to this nation...ignorant racists need to be cleansed from the gene pool and republican politics...
"Cleansed" exactly how do you mean to do this O tolerant Liberal? So because of disagreement with President Obama that makes one "an ignorant racist"? you cannot simply have a profound difference of opinion without being labeled.
again...stay our of my wife and daughters bodies and we'll be fine...you guys really are fascinated about womens bodies and what they choose to do with them...and yes many republicans are in fact ignorant racists and should be called out on it
Fact, right according to YOU- You are right about me being fascinated with a women's body, been married 29 years to the same women and yes its fascinating brother! Give me some examples of the these racist republicans not just name calling
“My party, unfortunately, is the bastion of those people, not all of them, but most of them, who are still basing their decision on race. Let me just be candid: My party is full of racists. And the real reason a considerable portion of my party wants President Obama out of the White House has nothing to do with the content of his character, nothing to do with his competence as commander-in-chief and president, and everything to do with the color of his skin. And that’s despicable.”
-Col Lawrence Wilkerson REPUBLICAN
I have to say that it is unfortunate the "people" like "alias" get deleted. Had "alias" not been collapsed, I would have asked "celtic" why he did not stand up against him/her...and "celtic" would have a clear example of the racism that exists among the teabaggers/Republicans.
It's not even coy or clever, "celtic" for you to pretend that you have not seen the racism within your party and it is very telling that you had absolutely no comment to mayamomma's post.
It is this weak character flaw within the Republican party, the one that keeps you from standing up against the "tea" party, that is bringing you and your party to your knees. Until you collectively grow a pair and reject them at every turn, you will forever be linked with them and their abhorrent social agenda.
Is it possible Rep. have more Neanderthal DNA
then the rest of us & therefore make them act like hateful animals instead
of reasoning animals ?
Good news to hear at least some on the right are looking at things through the new len's of reality in our country. I hope the old guard does not drown them out with the tired rhetoric that got Republicans into this mess to being with.
I doubt we'll see any significant changes, since any changes would require compromise, and you never compromise principle.
Well, I agree with you Sir. I have solid core beliefs and valves that I will never change no matter how hard the winds of political correctness blow. But... I can accept people who are different from me be it color, religion sexual preference etc.. if we can agree on enough issues that are key to moving the country forward.. smaller Government, Individual liberty, fiscal responbilility, strong defense etc..
guns and religion are your core beliefs...get real
those may be Republican beliefs in the mission statement, but they are Democratic Party values in practice:
how fiscally conservative was it to cut taxes while waging two wars?
what the heck is wrong with asking everyone to carry health insurance?
who made it legal for gay people to serve their country without requiring them to lie about their orientation?
who made it easier for gay people to settle down and get married?
under whose administration have record number of immigrants been deported?
under whose administration has Medicare fraud been aggressively prosecuted?
under whose administration are their fewer public sector jobs?
who killed bin Laden?
Rick, you are not very bright, you need to get out more. I do not owe a gun, in fact never shot one, and I am not religious. Celtic 2 Rick - 0
"smaller Government, Individual liberty, fiscal responsibility, strong defense etc.."
What did we get when George W. Bush was in the White House and Republicans ran both houses of Congress??
Smaller government ---- NO. We saw the largest increase of government since LBJ and an entirely new entitlement program among with an entirely new cabinet department
Individual liberty --- NO. remember the Terri Schiavo case?? The Republican Congress called a special session to stick their noses onto a personal family's tragedy. And of course George W. Bush decided he had the right to view our emails and listen in on our phone conversations.
Fiscal responsibility --- HELL NO. The largest surplus of all times became the largest deficit of all times. Two wars on the credit card, two tax cuts on the credit card, a prescription drug plan on the creditcard, a massive farm bill on the credit card -- borrow and spend
Strong defense --- NO. The worst attack on US soil in history and the military depleted by two wars.
Celtic 1 . .
Everyone should have a tune-up now and then. . . .
I am literally going to throw up if someone brings up GWB again - did I mention him? he was in my opinion a joke! I was speaking of Conservatives principles NOT GWB. LAYTON, that is funny- I get your point.
Celtic 1
Just because you don't want to talk about the President you elected to implement your Republican "values," which he did, with disasterous results, doesn't mean he didn't exist.
GWB did no such thing, he spent like a wild man, got us into an illegal war helped wreak the economy - on and on , I speak of Conservative valves something Republicans long ago abandoned
Good-Luck!!! The Republicans who turn out and vote for them are white, old-white males, and angry whites. The populace has changed , and the Republicans want to hold on to their gerrymandered seats with white voters. Sorry numbers don't lie, Hispanics like Mayor Julian Castro or his brother Joaquin Castro are the faces of America (they are Mexican-Americans) Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio are Cubans. They do not speak for Mexican Americans, when their familes left Cuba for America they were welcomed with open arms, Mexicans who come to the US are shown a sign that says NOT WELCOME. The people holding the sign up are Republicans-like Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. I have serious doubts that the Republicans can change the spots on their skin, they are what they are.
That is a big over generalization, I am White not old and certainly not angry, neither are 99% of the people I know who voted for the GOP. The Castro's are not THE face of America, they are one of many different faces of America. The Cuban story of immigration escaping from Communism in Cuba is much different than the story of Mexicans flooding the borders of the USA. I do know where you live but I have not seen open hostility towards Mexicans.
cubans like marco rubio who DID NOT flee communism?
His parents did
No, they didn't. Rubio's parents were Batista Fascists and left well before the Cuban people rose up and threw out the conservatives.
"His parents did"
No they did NOT. Rubio's parents left Cuba 2 years BEFORE Castro came to power.
Ted Cruz was born in Canada, Calgary to be precise and lived there for the first 4 yrs of his life. Both parents were in the oil business. His father came to the US in 1957 during the Cuban Revolution.
He appears to be a bright fellow, pity he doesn't use his intellect to further hopes and dreams for immigrants in addition to citizens, as I would be willing to believe he used his parentage to help provide him with the first class education he's received.
Perhaps the first step for conservatives would be to find some conservatives in the Republican party. Most Republicans are socialists who merely see their role as providing slower growth in govt and control over our lives as opposed to the Democrats who constantly seek to push the process of totalitarianism at a faster pace.
Look a the Republican candidates for president over the past 34 years since Reagan:
Liberal Moderates: Bush Sr.(2x), Dole, McCain, and Romney
Moderate/Conservative: Bush jr (2x) I only apply the conservative slash tag to Bush jr because he did cut taxes, did lead our defense of the nation, and did appoint conservative justices to SCOTUS. But he had far too many liberal efforts like expanding Medicare, expanding Federal money to Education, and failing to veto more budgets.
There has not been a single Conservative Republican candidate for national office since Reagan. Even Reagan was not a perfect Conservative, but at least he slowed the tide of marxist socialism for 8 years.
... well Larry, you seem to have missed your calling as a humorist. BTW, those dust bunnies under your bed are mini Trotskys.
Good one, bcwc. Do you suppose that poor Larry knows that Reagan raised taxes?
"Perhaps the first step for conservatives would be to find some conservatives in the Republican party."
Sure Larry -- the tea-publicans need to go from the far right to the extreme, radical craziest of the crazies right!! Do the Democrats a huge favor --- do everything you can to make that happen.
if the Republicans were actually conservative, where are the bills passed to eliminate all the unconstitutional departments and their spending programs?
When did the Republicans show conservative, constitutional responsibility and end the depts of Education, Energy, Labor, Health & Human Services, FEMA, OSHA, EPA, FCC, FTC, Food & Drug Administration, and Transportation. When did they roll back the Dept of Commerce back to it's Constitutional Function?
When did we EVER see spending reduced?
We haven't had a conservative Govt since the 19th Century.
"We haven't had a conservative Govt since the 19th Century."
[Even Reagan was not a perfect Conservative, but at least he slowed the tide of marxist socialism for 8 years.]
...I thought self-proclaimed "libertarians" such as yourself hated Reagan...
Fine, Larry. It sounds to me that you should gather up all your little teabagger buddies and leave the Republican party to actually form your own. This would be a god send for the Republicans and what sounds like a good fit for you.
At the very least, the rest of us can look at the Republican Party without having to figure out who is the real American and who is the evangelical, racist nazi.
I left the Republican party in 1970
The 2010 elections referred to as an aberration were not an acceptance of Republican ideas. It was a frustration that the Democrats had not made enough progress in resolving their economic plight. It was the public's angry reaction to Democrats not a pro Republican mandate. The Republican plan of total obstruction had delivered the GOP a resounding victory. The decision was made by the GOP to obstruct to an even grater degree. That was an enormous political mistake.
The 2008 - 2009 Republican obstruction went mainly unnoticed by the general voting public. The brazen level of Republican obstruction starting in 2010 started to have a real impact on the everyday lives of the voting public. The GOP antics were starting to be reported in earnest in the media.
Public awareness of GOP obstruction became common knowledge. They didn't like it. Obstruction, the secret weapon of the GOP, had become a liability. That obstruction genie was out of the proverbial bottle, and it can never be put back into it. On the state level it is even worse for the GOP. The irony; the Republicans have not yet recognized that their political train is gaining speed, hurtling down the tracks toward the final station of irrelevance.
2010 brought a Republican majority to the Maine state legislature, and 2012 saw a reversal that was just as quick. Turns out, right-wing policies, in practice, actually do favor the rich, at the expense of the economy as a whole, the environment, teachers, seniors and everybody else. Well, you don't know until you try it, Maine did, and it voted to re-elect President Obama.
In order for the Republican Party to rebrand itself, it must get rid of the name REPUBLICAN. The word now signifys a party that is out of touch, negative, mean spirited and white.
I vote they rebrand as "Whigs".
They tried that. Remember: "The Tea Party?" (trademark pending)
Coopster
In order for the Republican Party to rebrand itself, it must get rid of the name REPUBLICAN. The word now signifys a party that is out of touch, negative, mean spirited and white.
Coopster,
"Losers" would be the re-branding name literally and figuratively speaking for Republicans and Tea Baggers!
Too little, too late. The GOP still has it's war on women, gays, blacks, the poor and the middle class. They still support policies that benefit the wealthy at the expense of the middle class. The GOP is irrelevant.
Willard when you say "war" that is a talking point, explain exactly what this so called "war "entails. I could use the same talking points saying liberals are committed to a war on: Christmas, Christians, Conservatives, White Males,Traditional family values etc.... 60 million who voted for the GOP certainly could not be irrelevant. - as a side note on the middle class you are aware the income for the middle class has dropped over $4,800 during Obama's term?
Celtic, what in the name of heaven are you talking about? The only war on those you name that exists is in the "teabaggery" world of numbskulls like Bill O'Reilly, he of little brain.
Exactly my point, there is no "war" on women, gays, blacks, etc.. anymore than there is a "war" on those items I listed. Bluster
Really? Then explain to me the current drive by the Republican party to force women to undergo vaginal ultrasounds to punish them for abortion, to make contraceptives harder to get, to cut supportive services like WIC...the list is endless. Don't tell women that there is no war against them.
WE KNOW BETTER!
Celtic - what a strange world you live in - divorced from the reality that is the Republican party. The GOP has a war on women, minorities, gays, everyone who won't - toe the lie and bow down to Grover Norquist!
Really, you know better?- the roughly 25-30 million women who voted for the GOP I suppose would disagree with you. Birth control seriously? go to CVS. It is not harder to get.- Just do not make me pay for it ok . WIC? in 2000 there were 7.2 million receiving benefits 210- 9.17 Seeking Sanity - how are you? i have been out the country, good to hear from you. But come on now Grover? geez whiz. You know I live in the real world- every day!
Celtc - 55% of women who voted, voted for Obama. There aren't any intelligent women left in the GOP so you've clearly found a few idiots who voted for Romney.
Come on Sanity I am trying to be nice, The GOP does have a problem with women voters no question .It is unfair to say they are idiots. My wife voted for Romney, she is Nurse Practitioner, which means she has a masters degree. She is no idiot, and I resent that.
Celtic 1
Celtic 1,
But you'd be wrong on both issues.
Every time FOX NEWS sends out a talking point memo it's a war on something, Don't be believe me? Just watch Bill O'Reilly and Hannity.
Bill O'Reilly: The culture war goes worldwide
The Factor you know that I have been reporting America is moving to the left very quickly. President Obama's election has emboldened many committed liberals and they are pressing their advantage in areas like taxpayer funded abortion, legalized narcotics and gay marriage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/2013/01/16/bill-oreilly-culture-war-goes-worldwide#ixzz2LO2NA500
LMAO@U
Bill O'Reilly & the Loons over @
FOX NEWSPOX NEWS Covers Fictionalized Wars More Than Actual Wars!!!More from the right wing zealot Celtic:
"Go to CVS, just don't make me pay for it>"
WE pay for it you dolt, through insurance premiums, just like all covered medications.
And if your wife is a NP and voted for Romney...she just can't be terribly bright, or care what happens to those who cannot afford health care. Shame on HER!
Bev, go back and re-read my post- I do not believe there is a war on those things that we on the right Cherish. I don't watch Fox news alright? there are other news outlets I prefer. I was merely pointing out the ridiculous use of the word WAR on both sides.
@ Celtic
Welcome to my world, and I don't belong to either party
Sorry Celtic - look at the women who represent the Republican party - Bachmann, Palin, etc. They don't even bring Republican women on Sunday talk shows because there are none that don't make them look even dumber than they already appear. It's hard to believe any sane woman would vote Republican today. The party is backward and only wants control of everything and everyone.
Then there are those Republicans who can't get past the ignorance that people just want handouts. And, you're trying to convince us that intelligent women would support this group of misfits? Please! Not a chance!
It is not my job to convince you of anything- The party I support is more Libertarian than Republican , I do not want my Government to control anyone- the goes for the Left to- do not force me to adhere to your set of valves and beliefs. I do not want nor need to Government to tell me how I cannot have a large soda, or I cannot eat this, or cannot say that etc.. I am more of a live and let live kind of Conservative. You are right Palin was a disaster, we need intelligent women on the right to step up - My God I wish Margaret Thatcher was alive and American! Jean Kirkpatrick, Elizabeth Dole, etc
Elizabeth Dole? You're kidding right?
Yes Coopster I am - it is almost 5 man, lighten up its time for a Guinness
Celtic - the problem is, the right has NO intelligent women to step up! They've all figured out the GOP is truly not female friendly - or anything close!
stop being the party of stupid.
It's time you libertarians stop the republican invasion on individual liberty. Live and let live? oh how very quaint, maybe you should stop supporting the party of stupid till they let live.
Current GOP leaders SOS (Stuck on Stupid) calling it principles. Claimed they are outraged over progress while continuing to obstruct and heavily spin the truth as backwards through fear. GOP logic, Sublimely causing rational people to side with them if no more than stupidity of wanting ignorance and feel sorry for them because they think they are right, while all evidence of a nation's survival depends on all the people. Maybe now the sensible ones will attempt to rejoin society even with their differences of opinion for the nation's sake. The GOP/Neo-cons dinosaurs are doomed to extinction People will remember and listen to others, just can't put lipstick on a pig. The world has gone global and in-fighting will help those wanting to see the decline of America.
WTFHAPPENED
I believe that the thought process from the conservatives quoted in this piece is exactly correct. Republicans do not have to change their positions. They can remain out of power. It is up to them. We need a strong two party system and they will either change or be an after thought. It is the best thinking since Buckley did it for them.
I think that it's healthy that the debate be between centrist-liberals and progressive liberals.
No more arguing with the closed minded right wing who have no interest in solving our problems.
Ron, you say you want a two party system, yet you want them to offer the same liberal policies as the Democrats. That is just a one party system with two names.
That's just nonsense. There's plenty of room between the Democratic platform and wanting to destroy the entire social safety net, ignore the entire scientific world, hand the government over to oligarchs, and impose Christian Fundamentalist theocracy upon the American people.
by 2016, after another 4 years of Obama's destructive policies, Americans are going to be begging to get the Democrats out of office......
Only in your dreams HopeLess.
Coopster - HopeisGone is demented as her post clearly shows. She's going t be a VERY unhappy person come January 2017 when Hillary is sworn in!
Hey hopeless --- you teatards said the same thing about 2012.
...check your history .. the inept Dumbocrat economic policy ....has never worked in America...so don't listen to these turds....
"the inept Dumbocrat economic policy ....has never worked in America."
What history do you read?? Go over the last 100 years. The DOW has done better under Democrats than Republicans. Corporate profits have been better under Democrats and Republicans over the last 100 years. Bottom line nycguy -- you don't know what you're talking about.
Charlie....your party just doubled down on our debt to over 16 trillion dollars, the housing market sucks and the unemployment rate has never been this high for this long.......so you my friend, are an idiot.....
So nycguy --- these are facts Republicans like you hate:
Job losses per month in January 2008: 800,000
Job gains last month: 160,000
35 straight months of private sector job growth
GDP growth in 2008: negative 6%
GDP growth last year 2.9%
Dow Jones Average in January 2008: Under 8000
Dow Jones Average today: 14,000+
Record domestic oil production
GM – all time record profits
Near record corporate profits across the board
Osama Bin Laden --- dead
Iraq war --- over
Facts Republicans Hate:
This nation isn't all the way back from the Bush debacle but we're getting there. And – that 16 trillion dollar debt you talk about --- remember – the vast majority of that spending was on the books BEFORE President Obama took office.
So nycguy -- I see you didn't respond to what I said about the last 100 years, you just ran your yap about President Obama and called me a name. That's typical of the right. When you can't defend yourself, change the subject and call the person a name.
...right Charlie....your Dumbocrat Party is doing such a fine job, please keep it up, borrow some more money from China so that you can also bail out Greece while you're saving America from Republicans.....I pity your insanity and hope you get better....
Hey nycguy -- you wouldn't know this because Rush the junkie and Fox didn't tell you but --- take a guess at what president has proposed LESS new federal spending (adjusted for inflation) than any president sinceIke??
Give Up???
The answer is President Obama.
The current deficit is caused by the spend and borrow policy of the Bush administration and the Republican congress
Charlie you must live in some math-challenged universe where pissing away a trillion dollars a year that we don't have gets kept in the "other set of books"... in this one, the stimulus that's on autopilot just keeps giving and giving... debt that is.... and Oblunder is the unchallenged king of squander.....
"nycguy" is already a proven liar and not worth a fart in the wind.
So, "fed up" it's your turn. Show documented proof of your claims and prove that you are not just another fool licking the non-sunny side of your god, the drug addicted, impotent pig, Rush Limbaugh. You will also show us proof of your lie about the "other set of books" and show your documented outrage against the BushII regime and their ACTUAL, DOCUMENTED "other set of books" and your documented relief when President Obama combined ALL "sets of books" from the BushII regime to give the American people a realistic idea of how bad they screwed us.
Failure to do so will mean that you are either a filthy liar or an ignorant, nazi propagandist.
Honestly what needs to happen at this point in time is set term limits and age limits. You can't govern in the here and now if you are 80 years old. At that age you are governing from a wrong era. That is the only way any party will grow and the nation be prosperious.
We don't need either of those if people would start voting their interests.
That, however, is what Republicans fear the most!
I think it's just a BIT too late for that!! Joe American is just beginning to realize what the GOP has been up to these past 30 years... what with their debt, they lied about war, their crashing the economy, their sabotaging the recovery etc etc. American voters do not take these kinds of things lightly and they WILL seek retribution because too many people were destroyed, too many other were hurt, too many died and too many other's standard of living have been on the down slide for too long!! NEVER have I seen such a lopsided amount to anti-GOP postings on various media sites online!
It looks to me that as long as the current Republicans remain in positions of influence, the party will be anathema, and subject to a rather stinging defeat in at least the next 2-3 elections!! DESERVEDLY SO. What they've done to this country borders on treason in the ways that they have helped our enemies! What's more, NOBODY believes them anymore!!!
...yeah, right Tom....what flavor of the kooky Kool aid are you drinking up in the back woods.....
NYCGuy - Cult follower of Rupert Murdoch.
I never cease to be amazed at the absolute lemming like replies posted here from the left of the center isle. I used to enjoy coming here to read some of the responses to the articles posted. There used to be a debate. Now, all I see are name calling finger pointers (i.e. those who write -thinking they know how it is we got into this mess without even quoting the source of their information.) What magic mirror is this?
Why, do you people forget all of the Representitives from both sides of the political rainbow who make up Congress? You act as if none of your dogs poop. And the Sequester? YOu listen to mainstream media and you immediately blame it all on the Republicans, yeah sure, that's the way it really is. Not.
Here, I read atheists screaming at believers calling them stupid for their beliefs but most have no problems with Buddists, hummm. You all act like President Obama can do no wrong but when does and he finally openly admits it, instead of being the better party, you point the finger back at the right saying... look what Bush did, if he can get away with that, we should be able to get away with this, and this, and this, and this. When did two wrongs become better than one? And its OK to go into Libya? It's OK to go into Syria and Lebanon? It's OK to support Al Queada now?
Ya know, President Obama didn't win by a land-slide his second term, it was nose-to-nose, and look at who was running against him, Romney! Republicans didn't want Romney but they got him any way, didn't they. Why? Because the game is rigged!
And change, I we have seen change alright, I've never seen a filthier Presidential race (don't talk about the issues, talk about who traveled with a dog on the roof of his car and who ate dog.) Yeah, I see change alright, I see change for the worse. I'm an advocate of renew-ables and sustainability but even I know our government shouldn't play renewable favorites. And WTF happened to our representation; what happened to Congress? Executive Orders aren't mean to make laws.
And why on earth do you all think someone owes you a living? Ya really think you're going to get something free? If it's free to you, someone else, who isn't a crook, is doing the work. Life just isn't like that, no matter how altruistic you think you, or this world is. If you want the government to run everything... keep on going, you are headed down the right track. But don't ever once kid yourself that you haven't lost something you can't quite put your finger on.
As to the children, getting to the kids is the easy part especially if you run the educational system, and their minds don't even begin to solidify until at least 21. Promise them anything, Obama Care, whatever, even though we don't have the funds to do so and it will be around their necks.
You don't even know what all of this is about, its about being governed from a central world government. You think all of this is about the environment? OK, sure and invading Iraq was about WMDs, not oil. Oh yeah, and we have proponents form both sides of the isle. The real parties are no longer Republicans and Democrats, they are Pro-global and Pro-sovereignty. It's about power and control, that's what it's all about.
Have fun stabbing each other in the back with steely knives. That's what you're doing. What fun.