Answer is ... you don't. They only think linear about it .....$9 an hour hoooray more money for the poor. Now all of a sudden we are paying $5 for a Big Mac. Or $9 if you are in NY.

An excellant example is the boat tax in 1990. Thats the first time i heard "pay your fair share" from the dems. They taxed 10% on everything over $100k figuring hey, the rich will just take it. Well they didn't and it devistated the boat industry and LOST more revenue than they had before.

Same thing is happening to the medical device tax in Obamacare, they just don't learn. It's killing the industry.

Excellent article if you're serious about answers to your question:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/13/1187007/-President-Obama-to-Raise-Minimum-Wage

I know that raising the minimum wage will benefit "we the not so rich people." I was asking how Obama expects businesses to hire more people when he's expecting those businesses to pay more to their existing employees along with other things such as increased taxes, etc. Big businesses are to greedy and smaller ones can't afford to do so.

Doing his job, campaigning for his policies. Yes. Actually, nearly every President goes on a tour after the SOTU.

The President is able to take his ideas to the people because the majority of them AGREE with what he wants to do. The righties always whine that he's "campaigning." Well dumbasses, do some campaigning of your own then. Go around telling everyone that a $9 per hour minimum wage is an unfair burden for the "job creators," or any of your other insipid positions. What you're really whining about is that the American people like this President and agree with the direction he wants to go in.

Which right step are you referring to? Visiting a plant, spending public dollars to pull jobs in, raising the minimum wage, or just being Barry?

Sane -

If all you got called is "awful" you are doing extremely well. Gernerally, when you point out fats and figures on this vine, your lineage is questioned, your mother's honor is besmirched, your intelligence is assaulted, your sexuality is suspect, your dog's papers are declared fraudulent.

Then they will tell you "nani nani boo-boo" to prove their point.

they always resort to personal attacks

If the last republican administration is any measure, I'd say not.

Cheap energy can't make up for wages, benefits, taxes, and the uncertainty of cap & trade or any other regulations.

But I am impressed that President Obama is standing behind cheap fossil fuels to make the middle class greener.

M.J. Is it possible that Obama is willing to throw "green" under the bus for the sake of the economy? Lets see what he does with EPA. That will be telling.

I think he'll adjust the long-term goals to meet short-term necessities.

Bill H-1430012

Is it possible that Obama is willing to throw "green" under the bus for the sake of the economy? Lets see what he does with EPA. That will be telling.

Why not? President Obama is poster-child for Darwinism.

Terry

Exactly how does raising the minimum wage create more jobs?

Similar to the paradox within the unionization argument; are we better off with 200 workers at $50K, or 250 workers at $40K?

It effectively reduces the profits of owners and put those profits into the hands of people who have a much higher marginal propensity to spend rather than invest in the stock market. More spending, more jobs.

That's how.

Mark Thomas...then why doesn't Obama raise minimum wage to $15 or$20/hr. That would be more spending more jobs...hell, make it $50/hr and end poverty and unemployment.

For all the obvious reasons Bill.

Do you disagree with what I posted?

Mark Thomas-371822

It effectively reduces the profits of owners and put those profits into the hands of people who have a much higher marginal propensity to spend rather than invest in the stock market. More spending, more jobs.

That's how.

It may effective reduce profits of owners temporarily. Then owners will get out of a non-profitable business or raise prices to reinstate their return on investment. And if the prices are too high to maintain sales, then out of business.

What comes first? The business or the good paying jobs? What comes first? The investment or the training for the employee?

The reason the U.S. lost so much manufacturing overseas over the past decades was that the cost of doing business here was too high. Pay someone $60K in wages, then it equates to well over $100K when you include the cost of benefits and retirement. Apple doesn't pay for that in China to make those I-Phones.

The only way the middle class can be "built out", whatever that means, is if more jobs are created. Not government jobs, which are a necessity, but also require several private jobs to pay for. And the only way jobs are going to be created is if uncertainty is removed and a favorable business enviroment is established.

President Obama has not done well in those regards. Between healthcare, threatening tax changes, and enviromental issues the business enviroment leaves a lot of room for improvement. And the next time a large company decides to build a new plant in another state, i.e. Boeing, don't go after them as if there were a criminal.

MJ, first, businesses cannot just raise prices in a competitive environment. If it were otherwise, they would have done it already.

Secondly, businesses that can't make a reasonable profit without relying on paying poverty level wages are not what I would call sustainable businesses anyway. They are extremely marginal businesses that a strong breeze would push into bankruptcy.

To your third point, we're not talking people making 60k a year, we're talking people making 15k a year.

And if your definition of middle class is poverty level wages, this country is in big trouble.

Obama has focused on the long term, maybe too much. But in the long term we need healthy workers who can earn a living wage, not a permanent middle class that can't afford health care and can barely afford to keep food on the table or a roof over their head.

And we also need to keep in mind we are stewards of the environment, we don't own it.

I appreciate your points though.

Mark

MJ, first, businesses cannot just raise prices in a competitive environment. If it were otherwise, they would have done it already.

Like taxes, if you raise the labor on everyone there is no competitive advantage or disadvantage. The cost will be eaten (loss of profit) or passed on in higher prices.

Sustainable businesses are businesses that make money for the owner/investor. No one has to work there. Feel free to find a better paying job, spend on education, or invest in your own business.

As for the enviroment, that ship sailed with James Watt. And with billions and billions daily served on our picnic table called Earth, I am so glad that I am living now and won't be around in 40 years.

if raising the min. wage works why did the past raises not help the lower income americans to rise out of poverty? It's just a short term fix until the employer has to reduce staff or raise prices and in the past both happened. That's when the jobs went to china for cheaper labor and you can see how well that worked

P.S. I do my enviromental part as best I can and then some. Also appreciate your thoughts on all topics. Have a great day!

You too MJ.

Raising the minimum wage is going to be detrimental for the job force, because a companies payroll is going to increase. Companies are going to weed through and keep the most capable workers to be able to handle more work. Companies are going to cut their overhead to keep prices down and their profit margin. If you aren't familiar with P&L, then you are talking out you rear end. Companies are going to cut their staff and unemployment will increase even more. Obama has no idea what he is doing nor his so called advisers!

Fuzzy, if a company needs 10 people to manufacture the orders they get when they are paying $8/hour, they'll need the same 10 people even if they are paying $9/hour.

But you are right, margins will be a bit less. No doubt about that.

Mark, I work for a company that handles sanitation for major food manufacturing plants. One of my plants is McCormick spices. They have me with a 40 person payroll to handle 3 shifts and near 750,000 sq. feet of warehouse. This is what was contracted. I need 60 people to do the job the correct way. If a company contracts at one price they can not go back and increase the work force. Our company has to eat the lost. Even though I cut chemicals and supplies isn't enough to add more personnel. This is only one plant of 6 that I have. Unless you work in a white collar position you have no idea what you are up against in a management position. We have to use overtime when I can get away with it and still make a profit. It is entirely different if everything is controlled by the company. I have to show a company why it is cheaper for them to contract verses them doing it themselves. I have all Mexicans for labor because they work cheaper than Americans. I know what I am talking about since I am up against it every single day. It isn't going to work the way Obama thinks it is. I hope it does, but I have been in Facilities Management, Warehouse distribution and Domestic and Foreign transportation for 35 years. It might sound good on paper but in reality it will not work. Their are to many variables involved.

Haven't you said though that you will not lay off people because you have to pay them more?

I do agree margins will be reduced. Absolutely. But my contention is that you can't lay off people you need to conduct your business.

Mark, No I can't lay anyone off, but right now they are starting at minimum wages. If anything, people that are in a 3rd party situation, will more than likely not be competitive verses companies handling the sanitation themselves. It is going to make 3rd party companies not as competitive. Which means it is going to hurt a lot of companies or force them out of business. It is also going to have companies reduce a lot of benefits for employees. Think how many people are now making $7.50 per hour. All these people will be raised to $9.00 or $9.50 per hour. Our company has say a 5 year contract based on a certain dollar amount. It is going to be a big mess to say the least.

Yes, it probably will result in reduced benefits but I don't think companies will go out of business as a result.

Ownership will take less in profits but companies such as yours will still be profitable.

The other question we have to ask ourselves is do we want a country where people work full time and still live in poverty. Tough question, especially if you're one fo the "haves" instead of the "have-nots".

Would you pay a little extra (say another 1/2% for everything) if you knew the result were that some citizens (roughly 15m if Obama is correct) earned $19k a year instead of $17k?

I would but I can't speak for anyone else.

And these people do spend that additional money where business owners are much more likely to invest in the stock market, so there are some direct favorable affects on the economy.

Mark

I have a neighbor that was laid off at the pentagon making over 19 per hour. He told me the other day that there is no way he will take a job for14 per hour. I hear this a lot from people. How about people that are making 20 to 24 per hour and refusing to take say 9 per hour. But they have very little education and should never have been making the hourly rate to begin with. The only reason they are making the wages they are is because it is a union job. This has been going on for many years because of the union. People that have degrees are making less than people that didn't graduate high school because of the union wages. This is backwards. This is causing a big problem now. You have college grads coming out of college and refuse to take jobs at say $25K per year. They are thinking they should be making over 50 to 60k to start because they have to pay college loans. This problem goes back at least 40 years. Americans are use to the old days getting union jobs paying over 50k just because of the unions. And now they are accustom to a certain wage even though they are not qualified for those kind of wages verses a college grad. We will wait and see. Foreigners will be gobbling up all and any job there is because Americans are thinking they are too good or above a certain wage. Foreigners have it better here than the country they came from. It is going to be interesting.

I wonder the same thing. My brother, well into his 50's, was laid off from a professional job. Took him a almost 2 years to find a job with somehat comparable pay (maybe 80% of what he made before) but during that time he collected shopping carts for Walmart for $9 an hour.

He didn't like it (obviously) and it was a blow to his pride, but he did it. I agree with you, Americans expect high paying jobs, whether or not they deserve them.

We're spoiled.

Energy is one cost of business but it can be much more efficeintly managed. The US consumes about 2X the amount of energy per GDP$ than Germany. Using that as a measure, increased efficency is the way to go, not drilling for more oil (over the long term fossil fuel prices will only increase).

It's a longer term strategy than more drilling for sure, but other countries have done it. WHy can't we?

And maybe that's one of the biger problems we face in this country: we are too short-term oriented.

Hookm

The DNC brought in union labor from NV to set up the convention in Charlotte.

Wonder if Sen. Reid got a little sumthin-sumthin...

If they brought in Union labor to set up the DNC, they lost their ass on that one. Besides paying union wages they had to pay transportation, Lodging, hotel/motel, meals, overtime or adjusted pay for a 24 hour period and misc charges. Whom ever made that decision should be fired. This is another reason, or main reason people in the USA are contracting other countries to manufacture and call centers for cheaper labor. The USA is not competitive at all. The only way America is going to survive is to be competitive, which isn't going to happen anytime soon at all. Americans are spoiled, selfish and lazy compared to other countries work force. Americans are also paid higher wages and aren't willing to come down for less money. Foreigners will take just about any dollar amount in the USA. This is why America must not let these foreigners in America like Obama wants to do. Obama is KILLING the EMPLOYMENT of American citizens verses foreigners.

Fuzzy, whether you pay someone non-union $20 an hour or union $30 an hour, neither is competitive with $1 an hour in China.

In other words, jobs were going to leave in either case.

Obama has no clue how or what manufacturing is, more or less operate. He sure knows nothing about a budget or what a P&L state are. If he did he would have one to run the country. I will bet one of his secret service guys know more than Obama does about everything. I would have more confidence in one of them than I do Obama. To be an agent they have to be well versed and have a college degree, even though they aren't to bright putting their life ahead of Obama who is a fraud all together. I may have second thoughts that these guys aren't wrapped to tight and have a death wish. Well forget that theory!