Albany
Joe:

It's
no secret I don't even try to sugar coat the way I feel some times like many of
my fellow lefties. It gives me great pleasure to know that you will suffer,
squirm, bitch, piss, and moan for another four years. It's even better
knowing you won't accomplish spit.

______________________________________

David Wanker: Far from your lame
prediction, I’m looking forward to four years of entertainment and laughs as
the lefty liberal agenda of King Barry’s first term comes back to bite them on
the ass like a piranha swarm.

I posted the above on 01/22/13 response to a David Wanker post. Just three days later the DC
Circuit Court unanimously struck down Barry’s NLRB “recess” appointments as “abusive
and unconstitutional”. I was LMAO!!!!

And now, just a week and a half later, the DOJ drones memo is leaked just before the CIA
Director confirmation hearings for the architect of Barry’s drone’s war strategy. The funny (odd) thing is I support this policy in general, although it probably needs some tweaking to add more safeguards against poor decisions on targeting the individuals.

The FUNNY (Hillaryous!!!!!) thing is how it has lefty liberals all confused,
discombobulated, and suffering from angst and consternation.

The lefty liberals KNOW that they would be going ballistically berserk in condemnation if such a policy was ever approved under GWB and Darth Cheny. But, THIS is the work of King Barry and his moron AG, Eric Holder, who, in their eyes, can do no wrong. This leaves then in a state of denial and delay in accepting the inevitable AWFUL TRUTH. They are all saying things like “I want to hear more about this policy”, and “I’ll wait until all the facts come out”, and “I have mixed feelings about this policy”.

Today we will find out what roast Brennan looks like being cooked in the oven.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, the following is from an email I received yesterday from someone claiming to be the
wife of FR’s resident hoser from the Great White North:

BCWC walks into his bedroom with a sheep under his arm and says, "Darling, this is the pig I have sex with when you have a headache."

His wife is lying in bed and replies: "I think you'll find that's a sheep, you idiot."

BCWC says, "I think you'll find I wasn't talking to you."

Life is good.

Enjoy.

(or, if you are a lefty liberal, at least try to be less miserable)

The Moral Preening of the Left

Obama and the professional left went absolutely bonkers over the Bush policy of using enhanced interrogation techniques as a tool in the war on terror. Their indignant vilification of Bush knew no bounds as they planted their flag of righteousness on the moral high ground they claimed as their own. But now we learn the Obama administration has claimed the power to summarily execute American citizens who pose an imminent threat of violent attack on the U.S., with nary a hint of complying with such untidy details like due process. So that big sucking sound you hear is the firm ground of the left's hypocritical moral clarity turning into quicksand.

The war against Islamic terrorism is the defining struggle of our times, and I have no problem in doing what it takes to keep America safe. I had no problem with Obama the international cowboy brazenly disregarding the sovereignty of a foreign nation and acting as judge and jury to unleash his kill team to assassinate bin Laden. No sir, I had no problem at all with the ant-Bush using decidedly Bush-like tactics in order to rid the world of that piece of crap.

But I do have a problem with a man who self righteously preaches to us about the sancity of American values, then turns around and repeatedly ignores those values whenever it is convenient for him to do so. If Bush had ever claimed the authority to murder American citizens in the name of national security, the Dems would have called for his impeachment. But when Obama does it the adoring left just grumbles a bit then gives their savior free rein to do as he pleases.

I suppose there is a direct line of reasoning that connects the left's version of "American values" with the assassination of bin Laden and the many other bad guys that have met their maker at the hands of this president. That might be a tangled line in that enhanced interrogation techniques are viewed as inconsistent with our moral compass, while raining unannounced death from the skies via drone attacks apparently passes muster. So I'm bemused at the contortions the LWNJ fanboys must go through to reconcile the recipient of a Nobel Peace Prize with the man who orders murders without regard for the rights of the soon to be departed – even when those departed might be Americans. And even when those departed include innocent civilians who just happened to be in the wrong place.

That's why this president's legacy will include a reputation for brutality unmatched by his evil predecessor. And that's why the army of slime on the left can take their holier than thou attitude and stick it where the sun don't shine.

It was FUNNY last night to watch MSDNC’s horses ass, Mr. Ed,
whining and crying about the disastrous consequences of cutting Saturday mail
delivery. All I can say is “Thank God” the Pony Express riders weren’t in a
union and there were no lefty liberals around in 1861 when it was phased out.
If they had been in a union, and there were lefty liberals around, America in
the 1950s and 60s probably would have had to build horse trails next to every interstate
highway and have livery stables at every rest stop.

Morons.

Nice rant from the radio Bill, but has very little relevance since it is the democrats that are most up in arms using drones to kill our enemies. The conservative fascist right is just using it for political purpose and the radio/TV folks are using it as fodder.

Opinions without information equals ignorance!

Hot damn! Bill and Joe are baaaaaaack.

Hot damn! Bill and Joe are baaaaaaack.

Rumors are that Albany Joe was seen at Fromagerie et Crouton yesterday, wandering up and down the aisles looking for "Common Bear" cheese.

But seriously, folks, what was going through Chuck's and Domenico's and Brooke's mind in the piece on Christie's weight when they wrote: "let’s not miss the bigger picture" and "what would be one of his biggest obstacles" and "The biggest thing is" [emphasis added]. We get it, guys! We get it!

Republicans. Get over this Drone thing. If we have targeted "American Citizens" it's because they've become TRAITORS to our Country and would gladly attack and kill Americans if they could. (Remember 911)? Get about our Country's business and quit wasting the peoples time over your petty hated for our President. Get a life.

Joe and Bill, how DARE the administration use these drones?!! Don't they know that we need to get thousands of troops killed to fight terror? Isn't it last call yet at the GWB pity party? The cops'll be busting you guys on your drive home!

Bill, you're not around much anymore? Whaddaya doin', hanging out with Cheney at his new undisclosed location? Just don't go hunting with him!

The only drones I see taking center stage are the GOP, Media, and firebaggers. I trust our President and appreciate him trying to keep US safe. I bet if there is another terrorist attack such as 9-11 what will they say then? If you're living right there is no need to be paranoid unless you're a TRAITOR!

When it comes to our Nation's safety the GOP and media don't care. They only care about feigning for our enemies getting killed. What about GUN CONTROL??

Hot damn! Bill and Joe are baaaaaaack.

Which one is the Captain to the others Tenille?

Chaos on Bull@!$%# Mountain

From the article above:

As late as last year, Christie’s standard response was essentially: my weight is my business, period. Not anymore. If you needed a hint that Christie is trying to get it together to run for president, this is it.

The real story is…

Something fishy is going on over at Faux sNewzzzzz and it smells just like an Atlantic herring washed ashore and grilled up by one of our infamous posters here on First Read.

Two weeks ago, the twenty-four-seven Obama bashing network finally said ‘Adios’ to the half-Governor Sarah Palin. According to Kenneth T. Walsh at US News, Palin says she was tired of preaching "to the choir" at Fox and wants a bigger platform.

I think it’s safe to say her fifteen minutes of fame that lasted four years has mercifully come to an end. Believe me; we are all better off if she returns to Alaska and keeps a watchful eye out for those nasty vodka-partying Russians.

Then just yesterday, the no longer “Fair and Balanced” charlatans pink-slipped the turncoat Dick Morris (The Brat) in an effort to “freshen its lineup and increase its credibility”. Apparently, Dick’s embarrassingly, anti-climactic, premature election sputter left Faux viewers unsatisfied and wishing for more perky Megyn Kelly close-ups.

Fortunately for the Murdoch monkeys, Karl Rove’s contract has been renewed, and he will be appearing as needed to serve up tasty tidbits of red meat their followers desperately crave to satisfy their unbridled lust for anti-liberal rhetoric.

Also, in yet another stunning announcement, the Faux-pas network hired former Ohio Representative American Liberal Dennis Kucinich as a commentator. It will be interesting to see just how long a leash they extend to Dennis, or if they just purposely give him enough rope to prove THEIR point that Liberals are the purveyors of all evil.

Last, and definitely the least, Frank Luntz is trying to resurrect himself one last time in order to retain what little credibility he has left by re-inventing his iconic wordsmithing into a new ‘Messaging Problem’ meme. Frankie has had an epiphany in thinking that the American public is ready to be told the truth, in order to lie to them in the very next breath.

So my dear friends, what does this all mean for you and I? On the one hand, it means that the more things change, the more they stay the same. And on the other hand, this writer thinks the obvious has occurred.

Quietly behind closed doors, Rupert and Roger realized that their ratings have taken a beating, and that means adjustments are a necessary reality if they want to continue their 20 year gravy train of deceiving the Faux sNewzzzzz faithful congregation through the next election cycle.

We now interrupt this program to bring you the following message:

"I heard Dennis Kucinich say in a debate, 'When I'm president...' and I just wanted to stop him and say, 'Dude.'" - Jon Stewart

P.S. Thanks to The Daily Show and Mother Jones on-line (Sep. 20, 2012) for the “Chaos on Bull@!$%# Mountain” headline I used in this column.

Salud

Lucky someone felt the need to leak a memo so everyone could find out what the most transparent administration ever has been doing. Today we are taking about the Obama policy to out Americans purported to be terrorists, tomorrow maybe that policy includes political adversaries?

Joe and Bill, how DARE the administration use these drones?!!

________________________________________

Auntie: Did you EVEN read my post??

Go back and read it v e r y s l o w l y and see if your lefty liberal brain can comprehend the part where I said I generally support the drone policy.

Moron.

So, this thread (article) says that there is no outrage from Congress......but the media keeps trying to push the drone thingy.......

Why?

Love the inner struggles going on. Do we go full on hypocrisy by supporting drones or do we go against our beloved POTUS?

I for one love me some drone action. Good points about precision and no boots on the ground. Now if they pair that up with something like a grand jury indictment from their peers it would make this a lot more palatable than having only one person's finger on the kill switch.

@California Tom - pfft...speaking of traitors...I guess it's okay that random drones are flying above taking out people without a fair trial or any of that stuff eh, all the rights americans have just flush em down the toilet with the rest of our rights eh?

@all the rest of you liberal whino's saying this is a good thing.... Go live in Pakistan, you'll have plenty of drone fly overs.

We can give billions in aid to foreign countries that are muslim and declare death to america around every corner, but we can't protect our kids in school. Don't say anything negative about the presidents wife or you may lose your job either, but that's okay with you guys too, because your so left you just agree with whatever obama says and passes. Here is a question for you, if nearly half of americans didn't vote for Obama, how do we give 8 billion in aid to egypt? Where does that money come from...EVERY CITIZENS TAX DOLLARS. And half of them didn't want him in the office anyway.

Talking abot Fox news falling apart...what a joke. What there are allowed to be four liberal channels but if a right wing one pops up, it's all hell and condemnation. There was a such thing as freedom of speech in this country, you know, that kind of promotes arguments. All you fools calling for liberal ideals.... just blinded by where you live.

Every year Obama takes more and more rights away, and you guys seem okay with that. If it was a republican or right wing person in office you'd reject all of these same ideals simply because he was right wing.

Petty hatred for our president would be like 2 or 3 percent of the people complaining california tom, not nearly half. So disarm us, take away or right of free speech, and now now fair trial, just a fly-by with a drone and poof.... everything is okay.

BLIND LIBERALS.

Will this be the next GOP witch hunt, when one fails start another, is John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Rand Paul and Marco Rubio going to be at this hearing making the Republicans look stupid !!!

Ursula, well said.

As I've said before, I have mixed feelings on war by robotic Drone but I recognize that terrorists are out to kill Americans whenever they can and cause harm to the country. What troubles me in all the hoopla is that the headlines, the television media, the pundit chatter make it sound as if hundreds of Americans are on some kill list and being targeted for assassination in the next week or so.

I only know of two who were killed by Drone, Anwar Al??? and his son. Now Anwar Al??? refused to surrender, hid from authorities while planning attacks on the USA. He was behind the Ft Hood massacre, he planned and aided the Underwear Bomber and was involved in countless other plots and attacks. I really have trouble mustering up some outrage over this American citizen's demise with or without Drone. In my view, he gave up his rights when he joined Al Qaeda and plotted to kill as many Americans as he could.

Of course, I would rather he had been captured and put on trial but how could we do that realistically without placing many other American military personnel in jeopardy? Somehow, too many have lost sight of who these people are and what they represent, and instead are focused on citizenship. Sometimes our emotions and our fears take our views beyond the reality of what is.

Congress should do its job of oversight; should ask the tough questions but it seems to me they had previously only occasionally made a fuss but were mostly willing to let things be.

I'm for the drone strikes.

It's far better to take out Al Qaeda terrorists with a drone than to send hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops into a foreign country and kill thousands of innocent civilians, and our guys, to stop one terrorist.

Killing someone without due process? Yeah, that's called WAR.

Those who claim our military intelligence has targeted innocent people need to prove it. Perhaps they forget all the Iraqis and Afghanis who have died defending their homes. They are the truly innocent.

And it's funny how the people who are all up in arms about the government 'taking away' their assault weapons are the SAME PEOPLE who are all up in arms about the drone strikes. If a Republican president was using drones, they'd be 150% in favor of it.

They're also the very same people who claim to "support" our troops, yet would rather our people be blown to bits by a roadside bomb than use drones to take out the terrorists.

Those gun-nut cowboys should take their guns and go after the terrorists in Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, Libya, Mali, etc.

If only they had the guts to step foot in those places.

Look up in the sky. It's a bird, It's a plane, NO it's a DRONE. A DRONE????? Quick grab your guns and shoot it down.

Tomas -- Nice "breakdown" of what's happening over at Fox.

For those that haven't seen Jon Stewart's "Chaos on Bull@!$%# Mountain" video clip, it's worth a watch.

Very funny stuff!

Whats the difference between a monkey and the Tealiban ???

This message was approved by John McCain !!!

Ursalla...what makes you an expert.....

Article IV. Section 2.: The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunites of Citizens in the several States. A person charged in any State with Treason, Felony or any other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.

Amendment V: No person shall be held to answer for captial, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger: nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb, nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

Amendment VIII: Excessive bail shall not be required, not excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment XIV, Section 1: All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of the law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This is for all of your "Constitutional" liberals (oxymoron??) out there who fail to see the danger in granting Mr. Obama the power to "eliminate" American citizens carte blanch, and at his whim and discrection. And before you play the "blame Bush" card, the score is Obama: 350, Bush: 50. This is an extremely slippery slope we are on.

And "Beverly", maybe your savior should march over there, and tell these citizens of the m.e. to stop "clinging to their guns, and religion...".

the only reason Fox's ratings look so good is because they have paid their way into Wal-Mart, Target, Malls around the country and about every factory in the nation. It's easy when you count a 1000 workers in a factory who rarely if ever watch what they are forced to watch as viewers or 10000 mall goers who don't even know a TV is on as viewers or all those Wal-Mart and Target shoppers who never go back to electronics as viewers. You see Fox has paid these places to keep them on 24/7 to make their ratings look good. But all it's done is let more and more people know what lairs and haters of the President they are. More and more people turning off Fox, not surprising.

Per Bill Fairfax's post:

The Moral Preening of the Left

So says the supreme Moral Preener from the Right.

chilled

So, this thread (article) says that there is no outrage from Congress......but the media keeps trying to push the drone thingy.......

Why?

For a democracy (actually a constitutional republic) to function properly, the public needs to be informed. Media plays a huge role in that. The fact that the media is pushing this, despite congressional apathy, is a good thing for our country.

We cannot simply rely on government officials to determine what is right or wrong. Sometimes they need to be told.

kaybeetoys

Killing someone without due process? Yeah, that's called WAR.

Why do you just now accept this? Can't be because of who proposed it right? If the president secretly says that it is ok to resume water boarding it will be fine right? Because it is WAR!

You know, I don't think you extremists are all that bad as people but the hypocrisy just knows no bounds. Have some shame FFS.

Kaybeetoys:

Well said, your post deserves a shout-out.

Probably hundreds and hundreds of American soldiers have been saved by using drones, But the GOP could care less about our Troops !!!

Once again, don't get into a battle of wits with me. You're bringing spitballs to a gunfight. Would you like to address the comment about the Bush pity party, or have you over-consumed the Sammy's this morning? I haven't read the white paper and I have civil liberty concerns that I'd have with ANY president doing this. However, anything George Worthless Bush could've done to spare the lives of our troops would've been welcome.

Classic liberalism, you are uninformed if you don't believe our sources of information. It is simply amazing that liberals can believe that one side is always right, and the other always wrong. Even the law of averages would never support that hypothesis. But then again, liberals probably don't believe in the law of averages.

When Rubio gets up there to talk about smaller govt... I wonder if he is going to talk about his past dealing with stripping govt protections to individuals or even just women for that matter. Like voting no in women's protection against violence bill or the Blunt amendment that would have allowed employer to deny their workers pretty much any insurance they did not like. I am also interested if when he speaks Spanish hell talk about preferring that the undocumented folks in this county can only get permanent legal status without a path to citizenship like he has said before. Pretty much guaranteeing that they be a permanent underclass that will never take part in the voting process.

Beverly In Chicago,

Great post on Fox con news! If you played a drinking game where you would take a shot every time you heard a pundit flat out lie to the public, it would not be possible for you to make it to work the next day cuz that would be a massive hangover!

kaybeetoys

I'm for the drone strikes.

"For every 10 to 15 people killed, maybe they get one militant," he said. "I don't go to count how many Taliban are killed. I go to count how many children, women, innocent people, are killed."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/17/us-drone-strikes-pakistan-waziristan

Ron Indiana

Kaybeetoys:

Well said, your post deserves a shout-out.

How's that for a "shout-out?"

Coyotehunter,

Ursalla...what makes you an expert.....

Unlike you, she knows how to read?

seaskip

GOP could care less about our Troops !!!

Come on, left or right, they all care about our troops. If you read the posts from the people on the right it is not the use of the drones that is making them made, it appears the support it. What is making people mad is how you turn a blind eye to what this president is doing but scream, holler, and yell when someone from outside your party does it.

According to Noor Behram, the strikes not only kill the innocent but injure untold numbers and radicalise the population. "There are just pieces of flesh lying around after a strike. You can't find bodies. So the locals pick up the flesh and curse America. They say that America is killing us inside our own country, inside our own homes, and only because we are Muslims.

"The youth in the area surrounding a strike gets crazed. Hatred builds up inside those who have seen a drone attack. The Americans think it is working, but the damage they're doing is far greater."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/17/us-drone-strikes-pakistan-waziristan

Our foreign policy is doing way more harm than good. We are creating more enemies than we are winning hearts and minds. The left has lost credibility as the "anti-war" party.

Jack in Portsmouth

Unlike you, she knows how to read?

Another great contribution Jack. Jack tell me, wouldn't it be better to have at least have a grand jury indictment against someone they suspect to be a traitor instead of just using of just using intelligence? We all know intelligence can be wrong...I mean look at Iraq and there WMD. Even though they had them at one time as proven by the gassing of the Kurds.

So let me see if I got this right. If your opinion is regarded as contrary to the interest of American security as judged by a group of self appointed devine beings then regardless of your location (how bout Wyoming?) then you can be taken out of the equasion with the only due process being the process used to identify your remains.

And whose standards are being used to be judge, jury, and executioner? Charles Lynch.

Los Man123 -- Be prepared to hear the new and improved version of Republican speak. Same "product" they just added a few more zeros. For those that liked the old version, no worries. Nothing has changed but the packaging, REALLY.

Smart consumers will know better however. We recognize when someone is trying to fool us.

The American people see what the Republican party is trying to do, we are not blind !!!

The Good old boys are burning all their bridges for a come back, this could be a good thing for America !!!

Once again, don't get into a battle of wits with me. You're bringing spitballs to a gunfight

___________________________________________

Auntie: Your antique Lone Ranger cap gun isn't gonna help you much.

"What's been surprising about this entire episode has been the lack of outrage from Congress."

That's not surprising at all - It's Obama (D)directing the assassinations, not Bush (R), so the 'double standard' is in full operating mode.

DingleB posts that

For a democracy (actually a constitutional republic) to function properly, the public needs to be informed. Media plays a huge role in that. The fact that the media is pushing this, despite congressional apathy, is a good thing for our country.

But DingleB, this 'breaking news' from the NBC investigative reporter, is pushed by NBC.

We cannot simply rely on government officials to determine what is right or wrong. Sometimes they need to be told.

Apparently Congress isn't listening.

Especially the TeaPeople in Congress who jump on everything and anything that President Obama does. No doubt we the people will never know the full extent of policies, some of those in Congress do know.

Drip, drip, drip!

"For example, it would not be consistent with those principles to continue an operation if anticipated civilian casualties would be excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage." (from page 8 on the white paper)

That tells me enough to back up and validate my feelings on this. I'm not in favor of any president having the authority to do this to his own citizens in another country and deciding that another country's collateral damage is "not excessive".

I wouldn't want another country coming and sending drone strikes here to get rid of one of their "terrorist targets" planning something back home, getting a couple of uninvolved people killed and being provided the explanation of "Oh, we didn't think the collateral damage would be excessive", and thus I'm not a fan of doing that in other countries. I can't even imagine the outrage we would display if that was the case. Imagine Mexico catching a cartel member in the US, doing a drone strike and killing 3 civilians, all under the age of 18. Would we sit down for that and say "Oh, it's fine"? How would you feel about people in Mexico supporting that policy?

But we're supposed to be fine with us doing that in other countries?

From the article you cited, DingleB:

The drones are America's only weapon for hunting al-Qaida and the Taliban in what is supposed to be the most dangerous place in the world.

That's right, folks: we are using drones in Pakistan. Do you propose that we declare war on a nuclear-armed country instead?

Let's get real for a moment. Terrorism is alive and well in the world. The terrorists are not concerned with OUR rights or any form of due process. If there were another attack here, you righties would be screaming for Obama's head.

That's what it all comes down to. If Obama is doing it, the right is against it.

(Thanks, Ron.)

Mo-#######

That's funny. I never see Fox News on any TV at Wal-Mart,Target,Nordstrums,JCPenny,BestBuy or any other Retail store here in Ca. Most of the time they are showing a DEMO or a BluRay on all of their TV' so the customer gets an idea how the different TV's handle the same input. Now as far as factories go,I didn't know they let you watch TV while you work. Seems pretty dangerous to me. You know,might get caught in the machinery and lose a finger or hand.

Maybe you should try that statement again. This time show some article or survey to backup your claim.

If you read the posts from the people on the right it is not the use of the drones that is making them made, it appears the support it.

wouldn't it be better to have at least have a grand jury indictment against someone they suspect to be a traitor instead of just using of just using intelligence?

And unlike you, she knows how to write.

I never have any idea what you're trying to say, Morgs. Just keep on muddling through life--it's the best you'll be able to do.

Albanian Idiot,

don't get into a battle of wits with me

"Wits", Idiot? Wits? That's just it--you don't have any. That's why DW named you the Albanian Idiot.

It's far better to take out Al Qaeda terrorists with a drone than to send hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops into a foreign country and kill thousands of innocent civilians, and our guys, to stop one terrorist.

Totally get what you're saying here, Kaybee, and I agree - of course if Americans had to choose between using drones and our troops to fight these guys, of course they're going to go for the drones, hands down. The bone of contention I have (and many others) here is that it's a VERY short drive from using these things in war to using them to exert power and tyranny over Americans HERE in this Country.

Jack in Portsmouth

And unlike you, she knows how to write.

Another great retort. What don't you understand about targets not getting due process before getting killed? Or at least a grand jury indictment? Or any sort of check and balance before one person can pull the trigger and kill an American anywhere on the planet?

To the right-wingers who suddenly found their consciences: if we had captured Anwar Al ???, would you have demanded he be put on trial in this country? Or would you demand he be declared a terrorist, ship him to Gitmo and waterboard him, say 89 times in a month, to find out what else he had planned?

Beverly, Tomas, Kaybeetoys, terrific posts.

When it comes to drones, The GOP talking heads at the confirmation hearings have been droning on and on about the same old, same old.

Jody, Iowa

suddenly found their consciences

The conscience has always been there. If we had captured Osama and they had asked for the death penalty would you lefties still support that? Or is death by drone a type of execution you can now gut because Pres. O said it is right?

Bring back water boarding too.

kaybeetoys

Terrorism is alive and well in the world.

Why do you think that is? It's not because they dislike our way of life.

If Obama is doing it, the right is against it.

This is nothing more than an attempt by the left to completely discredit any criticism of the current administration, not on merit or lack of, but by dismissing the source. This is a logical error. You show that either the premise doesn't support the conclusion or that the premise is false. That is how you debate.

You say Po-Tay-To

I say Pa-tah-to

That sums up the GOP response to ANYTHING coming from the White House. If the President were against using drones against terrorist, the GOP would be for it. If the President supported torture, the GOP would be against it. It doesn't matter.

You say Po-Tay-To

I say Pa-tah-to

Personally, I do not have a problem with using drones to kill terrorists, American or otherwise. If they are fighting with the terrorists they share the fate of the terrorists, period. They abandoned all right to due process when they changed sides.

50 years from now when armed police drones fill the skies over American cities, I might have a different opinion. BUT I WON'T BE AROUND TO SEE IT! So, who cares?

Drones save American lives. DRONE ON!

BTW, the following is from an email I received yesterday from someone claiming to be the
wife of FR’s resident hoser from the Great White North:

BCWC walks into his bedroom with a sheep under his arm and says, "Darling, this is the pig I have sex with when you have a headache."

His wife is lying in bed and replies: "I think you'll find that's a sheep, you idiot."

BCWC says, "I think you'll find I wasn't talking to you."

DAMN, YOU GOT OWNED IKARUS!!!! just like your boy loving athenian Mickey yesterday. Time for you to hang up the Pederast title dontcha know eh

LIFE IS GREAT!!!

Feisty --

Hot damn! Bill and Joe are baaaaaaack.

Which one is the Captain to the others Tenille?

My guess it's the one wearing the wool chenille. Baaaaaaa!

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City

That sums up the GOP response to ANYTHING coming from the White House

Wrong, they are pissed at your hypocrisy because ANYTHING that comes from the White House in today's administration has the automatic thumbs up approval from the drones on the Left.

astounding

Talking abot Fox news falling apart...what a joke. What there are allowed to be four liberal channels but if a right wing one pops up, it's all hell and condemnation. There was a such thing as freedom of speech in this country, you know, that kind of promotes arguments. All you fools calling for liberal ideals.... just blinded by where you live.

Every year Obama takes more and more rights away, and you guys seem okay with that. If it was a republican or right wing person in office you'd reject all of these same ideals simply because he was right wing.

BLIND LIBERALS.

astounding,

Umm, I mean boring, liberal stations give both sides of both Parties point of view. POX NEWS dosn't. it just bashes our President. LIES, smears, and misinforms 24/7.

PS. Watching FOX and T-baggers is not freedom for you. It's being shackled. But, when you don't have a mind of your own; how would you know ? smdh

Who is Marco Rubio ??? - Oh that's the guy trying to turn Florida street signs to Spanish, my my that's very American of him, wake up America !!!

This is not an Executive Branch vs. Legistlative Branch issue.

This is an Executive Branch vs. Judicial Branch issue.

How can we not indict and convict someone of treason (punishable by death) prior to these drone strikes?

The bone of contention I have (and many others) here is that it's a VERY short drive from using these things in war to using them to exert power and tyranny over Americans HERE in this Country.

HOTTICKET, I disagree. Are other means we employ in war being used here to exert power and tyranny over Americans? I haven't seen any tanks on my street.

I'm not a paranoid right-winger.

But perhaps the righties have good reason to fear what a Republican president might do with such technology. After Bush/ Cheney, that makes sense.

Good grief!! What a bunch of drivel. Fox News " paids its way into Walmart/Target on so on...". That is like saying the present administration bought its way in via those on welfare and food stamps. Stop the insanity. There are always going to be biased aspects/outlooks no matter which station it comes from. Things can be twisted in every single way possible. Simply because others do not share in your own belief does not mean their view is any more skewed than your own.

Now, back onto the subject... Brennan is the same guy that is all for more government control isn't he? So it is his time to face a grilling. When We The People go out to find employment, we are scrutinized from our looks to our demeanor, etc. Why should this be any different?

Or any sort of check and balance before one person can pull the trigger and kill an American anywhere on the planet?

Oh, I see. If our troops ran into these same guys in battle and were being shot at they should just stop firing and go through some kind of due process before returning fire. Right. Got it.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other on the use of Drones--I can see both sides to the question. But as a veteran of another war, I would say if one of those guys is engage in planning an attack that will kill American troops or civilians overseas, then he no longer has a right to due process--he is engaging in an act of war and is taking his chances on the "battlefield" like any other "soldier".

But I suppose you would rather that he roll on the ground laughing his butt off while we go through some kind of court process. You're really not too bright, are you?

HotTicket,

. . . it's a VERY short drive from using these things in war to using them to exert power and tyranny over Americans HERE in this Country.

That's just plain ludicrous. You're another anti-government conspiracist.

the speech really is about the Republican Party’s commitment to limited government as the best way to help the middle class, and how it differs from the President’s plans for bigger government."

President Obama has no plans for "bigger government," so Rubio is going to spend his time lying. The number of government employees has actually decreased. And what the Republicans mean by "limited government" is a government limited to starting wars abroad and protecting the wealthy at home. They're going to "help" the middle class disappear.

just keep blaming the republicans for everything, this is their fault too right ?

OMG please help us all...

this is pathetic

I have been in several combat zones.I will happily use any weapon we have that will save American lives.I can tell that most of you here have never been anywhere but the North American continent.The places that the drones are being deployed is a whole different situation.You cannot compare Afghanistan or Iraq to what life is like in the U.S because there is no comparison.You also can't depend on what the media tells you either.The only ways to find out better info is to sit in on a threatcon briefing(which i have)or go there and see for yourself.(which i have done 3 times)I have been the boots on the ground,if that's what you want to call it.A person gets a little different perspective when you see it 1st hand.These so called Americans abroad who have joined the enemy will kill you just as fast and any other enemy.(they won't be asking about legalities before they do it either.)If you want the real information and not the edited version go there yourself and see.Talk to vets that have been there and done that.Especially you Feisty.You really need to see and read more than what is in the news.

DingleB, how many hearts and minds did we win by attacking Iraq? How many hearts and minds did we win in Afghanistan when Bush/Cheney decided to just hold down the fort with a few troops and head on over to Iraq?

Morgs, you should check out the veteran's groups grading of legislators, especially those troop-loving republicans; McCain had a D grade back in 2008 whereas Obama had a B+. Of course, they support our troops publicly, we all do but it's how those republicans vote concerning funding and programs for those troops once they're home that deserves a good, long look. BTW, they voted NO on the GI bill finally passed in 2009 by dems and signed by President Obama. The GOP blocked that legislation all during the Bush/Cheney years from 2001 through 2006, and Bush threatened to veto it if democrats passed it 2007 through 2008.

It is interesting to see those leftest , defending the killing of Americans without due process , what about when Bush alowed waterboarding foreign terrorist , you cry aloud IMPEACH Bush.

Do you support waterboading now.

Jack in Portsmouth

Oh, I see. If our troops ran into these same guys in battle and were being shot at they should just stop firing and go through some kind of due process before returning fire. Right. Got it.

Those would be enemy combatants and I would expect to use every technology we have within reason to disable them.

Out of curiosity, what does it take to be labelled an enemy combatant? i seriously don't know. If it is as easy as pointing a finger that should be changed. But if there is a check and balance to decide this I think this should at the very least get applied to the drone targets.

Also Jack, the personal attacks you put out are really engaging and truly show your wit.

Beverly in Chicago

It looking like there is real trouble at Fox News. A new PPP TV news poll found that viewer trust in Fox News has fallen to an all time low. Only 41% of viewers trust Fox News.

After their predictions for a Romney landslide were blown out of the water and the debunking of their crackpot birther nonsense and conspiracy theories about the public opinion polls and unemployment numbers being rigged, it's really sad that 41% of the public is still gullible enough to trust them.

Dont Carry It All,

Cant wait!! lol.. didn't we hear this before with the "Young Guns" book and propaganda they were dishing out a few years ago?

Rick - lotsanumbers writes:

"But then again, liberals probably don't believe in the law of averages."

Probably? Wow, a right-winger dabbling in numbers. Why don't you tell us about the probability of a liberal believing in the law of averages. Then, perhaps it would be a good idea to explain to us "the law of averages".

That kind of crap plays well for arithmetic-challenged right-wingers because they don't know better. A lot of lefties know better. I'm one of them. Show me the error of my ways, right-wing math guy.

Also Jack, the personal attacks you put out are really engaging and truly show your wit.

Glad you enjoy them.

redvirginia

It is interesting to see those leftest , defending the killing of Americans without due process , what about when Bush alowed waterboarding foreign terrorist , you cry aloud IMPEACH Bush.

What about the right-wingers who--despite all evidence to the contrary-- still do not accept that our president is a citizen of the United States of America?

Yet those nuts are all up in arms about "Americans" being killed without due process.

Americans? Those terrorists are not Americans! They are traitors and murderers who spend their every waking moment plotting America's death and destruction.

And yet you defend them and bash our duly-elected president.

WHY????

Morgs74

Jack in Portsmouth

Oh, I see. If our troops ran into these same guys in battle and were being shot at they should just stop firing and go through some kind of due process before returning fire. Right. Got it.

Those would be enemy combatants and I would expect to use every technology we have within reason to disable them.

Anyone who declares himself to be a member of Al Qaeda is automatically an enemy combatant regardless of whether he's actively shooting at Americans. That is a completely valid justification for killing Al Qaeda ring leaders like Al Awlaki.

Jack in Portsmouth

Glad you enjoy them.

Well my 5 year old gets a chuckle out of them but I think that is only because he has a friend named Jack.

Houston!

Anyone who declares himself to be a member of Al Qaeda

That can I understand, but what about those to don't proclaim their allegiance? Do we just determine their affiliation by the company they keep?

Would a drone strike on Timothy McVeigh been prudent if it took out only 20 innocent people or is there language about not using this inside our borders that I have missed. There are many things that need to be sorted out before they just release a memo like this...or even issue it internally.

@ Wolfhound

I agree with what your saying in general.

But, even in combat we practice jurisprudence at the most basic level...PID. Even then our commands want debriefs. We don't kill an insurgent, RP and go straight to sleep.

The issue here is oversight before, during and after the fact. For our leadership, oversight comes through the Judicial Branch.

Morgs, well, I sure didn't read much conscience from the rightwingers the past four years. You might be the exception, I don't know because haven't seen you here all that much. I'd remind you that Osama bin Laden killed 3000 Americans in one day; it's a little hard to muster up any sympathy for him. Reality check: OBL would never have been put on trial in the USA. Shoot, the GOP and some democrats refused to allow the Gitmo detainees to be transferred here for trial. Gitmo is still open because GOPers and Dems in Congress passed legislation to block its closure.

Fairfax Bill:

The war against Islamic terrorism is the defining struggle of our times, and I have no problem in doing what it takes to keep America safe. I had no problem with Obama the international cowboy brazenly disregarding the sovereignty of a foreign nation and acting as judge and jury to unleash his kill team to assassinate bin Laden. No sir, I had no problem at all with the ant-Bush using decidedly Bush-like tactics in order to rid the world of that piece of crap.

Killing enemy combatants, as both Bush and Obama have done, is war. Torturing enemy combatants after they've been captured, as only Bush did, is a war CRIME under the Geneva Conventions signed by the United States.

Exactly Sabot, post 168, when it is decided down the road I think it actually become an international decision. We are in a war on terror, this war has been unconventional to say the least, from the beginning. With terrorist using unconventional weapons. Drones do the job more efficiently then carpet bombs or even a missile. I really don't think people can be considered Americans anymore when they declare us as their enemy.

Jody, Iowa

DingleB, how many hearts and minds did we win by attacking Iraq? How many hearts and minds did we win in Afghanistan when Bush/Cheney decided to just hold down the fort with a few troops and head on over to Iraq?

None. Is your point that Bush/Cheney were worse in your opinion so it's okay when Obama does it? Two wrongs make a right?

o the right-wingers who suddenly found their consciences:

@Jody - there is no conscience that I can see. Just more excuses to placate their Obama-bashing frenzy. From the posts here, you would think Obama intends to use drones to make a strike in mid-town Manhattan during lunch hour. What a bunch of frickin' Drama Queens.

From what I have seen and read so far, the memos address the legality of targeting drone strikes against American citizens on foreign soil, where capture and extradition is not possible, that are actively engaged in operations intent on killing Americans either abroad or on American soil. Given that we already use snipers and other covert methods to take these people out, I'm not sure I see a difference in using drones. My bigger concern in drone use is the collateral damage - potential innocents that are also killed in these strikes.

Wolfhound, I think sitting on one of these threatcon meetings that you are so privileged to sit on would not change my perspective at all. That's because I have a moral and ethical compass and don't think it's legitimate to simply kill someone because they aren't an American. This program is outright terrorism. It has been documented that most of those killed are noncombatants. Many are killed because they are children or spouses of alleged combatants. Last I checked in this country, the death penalty is imposed upon the guilty party, not his/her entire family. I don't mean to single you out. This problem is endemic in our society. Apparently the only life that has value is an American life according to most Americans.

drones under Bush = War Crimes

Patriot Act under Bush = tyranny

Patriot Acut under Obama = Security

Drones under Obama = Justice

So Bush was a traitor, Tyrant and criminal

Obama is the savior of America

do you libs see the irony of your hypocrisy? Didnt think so

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City

The old "it doesn't apply to me so it doesn't bother me" argument. How about several years from now, when a right wing president takes office and declares OWS a terrorist organization? Then, under the precedent set by Obama, decides to take out a couple "terrorists" with drones? Will you still be saying "drone on?" Maybe far fetched, maybe not. The point is that if we allow due process to be taken away from some, we increase the chance that it will be taken away from us all.

Caesar Disgustus:

do you libs see the irony of your hypocrisy? Didnt think so

You obviously don't see the imbecility in your attacking liberals when it was Rachel Maddow, the right wing's most hated cable news personality, who had the first report on the white paper, which was dug up by a reporter for NBC, the right wing's most hated network. Maddow and the other MSNBC people hated by the far right have spent as much or more time on the story as any other network. Maybe more.

How can we not indict and convict someone of treason (punishable by death) prior to these drone strikes?

You must be suggesting we use an extraction team, kidnap them, and bring them home to face trial. Talk about trampled rights on so many national and international levels.

Why do you think that is? It's not because they dislike our way of life.

The roots of terrorism are far too complex to answer that in a few sentences. But our senseless incursion into Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, has made us many more enemies in the world. Bush squandered the good will and sympathy we received after the September 11 attack by invading the wrong country and making a complete mess of the Iraq invasion.

This is nothing more than an attempt by the left to completely discredit any criticism of the current administration, not on merit or lack of, but by dismissing the source. This is a logical error. You show that either the premise doesn't support the conclusion or that the premise is false. That is how you debate.

I could buy that, DingleB, if it were not a fact that the right has opposed everything Obama has done or tried to do, even when they proposed and/or supported it first.

This is what I call a "Litmus" issue...

So, we see the three "categories"...

A) The Sycophants...who support the administration blindly.

B) The Haters... who oppose the administration blindly.

And

C) Those who view the events of the day and the machinations of the political process on a case by case basis.

You know who you are...

Houston, go F yourself in a corner quietly

B) The Haters... who oppose the administration blindly.

dont know how it would be blind but yeah havent had much love for the previous (43) and current (44). The bad from both have far outweighed any good. besides history doesnt measure presidencies on day to day basis.

@ KayBeeToys

Only you and a few other Obama Cultists still believe that Bush single handedly brought us into the war in Iraq.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

I opposed Bushs Patriot Act. I oppose this lax policy on drones.

dangerfield

This is what I call a "Litmus" issue...

So, we see the three "categories"...

A) The Sycophants...who support the administration blindly.

B) The Haters... who oppose the administration blindly.

And

C) Those who view the events of the day and the machinations of the political process on a case by case basis.

Looks to me like most of the folks here fall into category C and a few noisy B's buzzing around.

Very true, dangerfield. But one extreme leads to another. The further the pendulum swings to the right, the further it goes to the left for balance.

We who comment here are not always as blind or ideological as a rebuttal opinion might make us seem.

Well my 5 year old gets a chuckle out of them but I think that is only because he has a friend named Jack.

And then to Houston you wrote:

That can I understand, but what about those to don't proclaim their allegiance?

I suppose your 5-year-old wrote that?

Houston,

Good distinction in #1.87.

kaybeetoys

The roots of terrorism are far too complex to answer that in a few sentences. But our senseless incursion into Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, has made us many more enemies in the world. Bush squandered the good will and sympathy we received after the September 11 attack by invading the wrong country and making a complete mess of the Iraq invasion.

Agreed. My point is that we're still creating more enemies than there otherwise would have been, but for our continued, senseless incursions into foreign countries. By supporting the use of drones in foreign countries, you are essentially supporting the perpetuation of decades and decades of failed foreign policy, a foreign policy that has made the world more dangerous, not safer.

Houston you fall into category A so quit trying to peddle your shlt like youre not a partisan d-bag

I see the Egregious Caesar Augustus has accused the Left of egregious hypocrisy. I will leave the archaic flip-flop for either side to decide.

Caesar Disgustus

Houston, go F yourself in a corner quietly

Now, that's the kind of response you'd expect from an idiot like Disgustus. Fail Caesar!

Houston you fall into category A so quit trying to peddle your shlt like youre not a partisan d-bag

I've already said that I don't approve of the secrecy of Obama's drone policies and the "collateral damage" that these drones have done. If you haven't noticed that, it's just more proof you're an idiot.

dangerfield

This is what I call a "Litmus" issue...

So, we see the three "categories"...

A) The Sycophants...who support the administration blindly.

B) The Haters... who oppose the administration blindly.

And

C) Those who view the events of the day and the machinations of the political process on a case by case basis.

You know who you are...

Dangerfield, I really wish I knew why I read this and immediately get the "Wheel of Fish" skit from UHF stuck in my head.

I'll take what's in the box!

You're a B dangerfield.

The right gets us into two wars, over terrorism. Wants us to spy on each other. Mistrust everyone, BE AFRAID!!!! But go shopping. They even gave us a deck of cards representing all they wanted, Dead or Alive. Oh, and don't forget, a vote for a dem is a vote for terrorists. Bush was given authority to declare any US citizen a terrorist, to be detained indefinably in Gitmo...or killed. I'm wondering, where was your out rage then?? Oh yea, that's right...you were cheering him on.

Personally, I think war has gotten way to sanitized...push a button then go to dinner. I think we should go back to the good ol' days of up close and in your face hack n slash, where you get the full effect of what war n killing is all about. Maybe we'd have less wars? Justa thought.

Much Love, n watch the skis,

Da Pup

>:o): PurRrrRrRrRrrrRrrrrrrrr

M0-681343

You're a B dangerfield.

Wrong ... you have two more swings at the bat.

Hey Ikarus why dont you spend some time show my hypocrisy. Love the retort from the left...Two Wrongs do make a Right...LMFAO.. You'll always have your sacred band of Thebes

and MO your an idot. Dangerfield is C at best

UHF...Weird Al's best starring role by far!

"Today we're gonna teach poodles to FLY!"

------------------------------------------------------------

Caesar-

But we aren't historians here, just commentators on the issues du jour, no?

While others are simply here to get a rise, bicker, or redress old grievances and wounds, and believe me they know who they ARE!

-----------------------------------------------

Agreed. My point is that we're still creating more enemies than there otherwise would have been, but for our continued, senseless incursions into foreign countries. By supporting the use of drones in foreign countries, you are essentially supporting the perpetuation of decades and decades of failed foreign policy, a foreign policy that has made the world more dangerous, not safer.

I'm a pacifist, DingleB. I do not own a gun, nor do I believe that war is the best way to solve conflicts.

But I'm also realistic enough to know that evil people plot and carry out terrorist acts against us and others, in every corner of the globe.

The use of drones in a country such as Pakistan has benefits for the Pakistanis as well as for us. They live under a repressive regime which is both aligned with and damaged by home-grown terrorists.

Why do you think our killing of bin Laden was not made into a larger, more lasting issue by Pakistan? Bin Laden's death benefitted Pakistan too... but of course that remains mostly unspoken in a place like that.

David Walker

Says "Rick - lotsanumbers writes:

"But then again, liberals probably don't believe in the law of averages."

Probably? Wow, a right-winger dabbling in numbers. Why don't you tell us about the probability of a liberal believing in the law of averages. Then, perhaps it would be a good idea to explain to us "the law of averages".

That kind of crap plays well for arithmetic-challenged right-wingers because they don't know better. A lot of lefties know better. I'm one of them. Show me the error of my ways, right-wing math guy."

David is one of those liberals that believes you can flip a coin a hundred times and have it always come up heads. Which equates to the fact liberals always believe they are right and that conservatives are always wrong. Or their liberal media sources always print the truth, and conservative media always lies. The law of averages suggests that is simply not possible. But as David points out, he knows better. ;)

Now, that's the kind of response you'd expect from an idiot like Disgustus. Fail Caesar!

gee Houston you lost me a while back with your accusation of racism...hence, go F yourself quietly. and No you are category A

Maybe i'll change my moniker to Hadrian and then you can call me a fag...how bout Trajan then you can call me a war monger. M. Aurelius? nah youd say im a cokehead. Maybe Tiberius or would i be a pedofile? Titus you might like, you'd say he's antisemetic, Claudius? you'd say im a retard.

Maybe Commodus and then you can call me Obama

Parker ... it appears 'egregious' and 'archaic' went over your head (look at your avatar, sheesh) ... O well wasted humor.

pssst hint ... try a dictionary, think of words whose meaning flips ... that should be enuff!

Caesar-

But we aren't historians here, just commentators on the issues du jour, no?

more like aggitators..you however i will give you a commentator and thought provoker..mostly lost on most on both sides. you truly are dangerfield

blackcatwhitecat

Parker ... it appears 'egregious' and 'archaic' went over your head ... O well wasted humor.

or B i just dont care what you have to say anymore. so take your w(h)ine and Athenian back to the Peloponese mmkay

Also, regarding this whole drone thing, it's evidently very costly, hense the cancelled Saturday drone bombings:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/

@ Jodi

Right now we are really winning hearts & minds all over Northern Africa. I'm seeing peace & democracy all over

GOP says, lets put boots on the ground and kill more US troops so we have due process, the hell with Drones !!!

Who is to say that all liberals support obama? What a bunch of horseshi*! If anything he hasn't done enough! If i had my way, the 1 percent would be forced to redistribute the wealth amongst the working class and wouuld never again see the day where they own 3 yachts with feet warmers and trap doors for servants to drop off their food! If i had my way every single american would have health coverage and would make a living wage and homeownership would be a reality for everyone who puts in a hard days work! Screw you as usual republitards you don't speak for me! Your the ones who support communism by allowing our corrupt ruling class to outsource jobs to communist countries to exploit cheap labor! Talk about hypocricy! You guys LOVE communism as far as i'm concerned. Im for liberties and freedoms and i'm sorry but these drone attacks seem unconstitutional (and yes i believe in the constitution but believe we can make progress with it). These are still american citizens and how do we know for sure they are traitors? There can be false info or lying going on for special interests. Just because an american breaks a law or supposedly does so, they are attacked and left for dead with no due process? This sounds very unamerican to me... Kind of like guantanamo which is still up and running despite our ridiculous pawn of a president promising otherwise. Another broken promise.

kaybeetoys

I'm a pacifist, DingleB. I do not own a gun, nor do I believe that war is the best way to solve conflicts.

But I'm also realistic enough to know that evil people plot and carry out terrorist acts against us and others, in every corner of the globe.

The use of drones in a country such as Pakistan has benefits for the Pakistanis as well as for us. They live under a repressive regime which is both aligned with and damaged by home-grown terrorists.

So, a pacifist in support a drone policy that often includes collateral damage and has in terms of Pakistan? I have a hard time reconciling that, but perhaps I'm too much of a "golden rule" person and try to see too much from the point of view of another country coming in, taking out a high value target with a drone, catching a couple extra civilians and saying "Mission Accomplished!". I envy your position of pragmatism in this case.

Pakistan in terms of the government falls to a strange category given that a lot of tribal areas tend to be autonomous. I'm not so sure that the drone policy is truly positive or negative there, but it seems to a "grey area" tactic to operate in a place that we're not welcome to, and conducting activities we wouldn't actually send most troops to do.

It makes it particularly difficult to reconcile for me, even if I can see the greater good aspect of it, when we have teams of soldiers who are trained to get in, extract a target with minimal collateral damage and can take him alive to possibly obtain intelligence from him.

It's not always the best course of action, but when we act as a world's police force and constantly bemoan how terrorists are attacking the innocent, I'd think we want to continue to hold the moral high ground to ensure we are limited collateral damage as much as possible so that we do not become guilty of the same thing that they are. If you have 5 people dead from an IED, and 5 dead from a drone strike, what difference does it make to the non-combatants on who killed them?

That's why I feel this policy definitely needs rethinking.

Have you all seen this?

What a great concept; combining National Security with Home Delivery.

Courtesy of Huffingtonpost.com

Tacocopter Aims To Deliver Tacos Using Unmanned Drone Helicopters

By Jason Gilbert, 03/23/2012

Look, up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane!

It's an unmanned drone helicopter shooting a taco from space down at you and your colleagues during lunchtime!

The Internet is going wild for Tacocopter, perhaps the next great startup out of Silicon Valley, which boasts a business plan that combines four of the most prominent touchstones of modern America: tacos, helicopters, robots and laziness.

Indeed, the concept behind Tacocopter is very simple, and very American: You order tacos on your smartphone and also beam in your GPS location information. Your order -- and your location -- are transmitted to an unmanned drone helicopter (grounded, near the kitchen where the tacos are made), and the tacocopter is then sent out with your food to find you and deliver your tacos to wherever you're standing

TomasGrande give this idea a BIG thumbs up!!!

I wonder if the drones deliver Chinese food?

LMAO.

Salud

hey ashp, maybe you can relocate to Moscow. Thats exactly the type of proletariat they're looking for. Unky Lenin wants YOU

TomasGrande

Yo quiero Tacocopter.

ashp

What you're asking for is for failed (time after time) economic policy. Go look at these pictures of Greece and tell me that is what you want.

http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/06/16868890-desperate-greeks-scuffle-at-free-food-handout?lite

We are fighting a war.

It is unlike other wars we have fought. Our enemy is from no country and from every country. Our enemy is both foreign and domestic. Our enemy uses all kinds of weapons, from box cutters to high tech sophisticated weapons. Our enemy does not care about collateral damage, or innocent people, or honor or nationality.

How do we fight this war?

Republicans protecting the people behind "911", this is a very sad day for America !!!

It works on suspected terrorists, why can it work on suspected drug dealers and gangs? It worked on suspected drug dealers and gangs, why can't it work on suspected thieves and rapists? It worked so well on thieves and rapists, why can't it work on shoplifters? It worked so well on shoplifters, why can't it work on litterers? It worked so well on litterers, why can't it work on elementary school yard bullies?

I cannot believe people cannot see the danger of such a law. The government being able to call down a drone strike and kill Americans "suspected" of terrorism with no need for hard evidence or due process in a court of law - just assassinate them at the word of one man. If you read the memo, they are not talking about South France or even southern Yemen - they are talking about southern Florida and South Dakota. It can be your neighbor's house that suddenly goes up in the night and the wreckage may crash into you 5 year old daughter's bedroom. Why you ask why your daughter is dead, your answer from the government will be, the attack was justified and we have no responsibility to explain ourselves to you. Sorry, but have a nice day!

[Houston, go F yourself in a corner quietly]

The cat must have pissed in your cornflakes again, huh...

FAIL! caesar off the rails this early? OH NOES! It's gonna be another long day for you, Burning Man. Better set that "infrastructure" aside for later...I'm sure your boss won't mind, hypocrite.

[i just dont care what you have to say anymore. so take your w(h)ine and Athenian back to the Peloponese mmkay]

BCWC, I think Mr. Mackey just broke up with you...you must be crushed. ;)

Mickey,

I had no idea that granite scratched so easily, I must have X-man claws.

Wow, even Rachel Maddow and Andrea Mitchell are pissed off about these drone strikes. Watched her show last night and she was not happy. Nice to see her think what is right for america and not the dem party.

Dingle, go look at the Scandinavian countries, or Germany, France, and if you are so near sighted that you can't stand the truth. Look at Canada. Not failures in any way, and as matter of fact many are way ahead of the U.S. in a lot of Categories. Your way sucks, it is proven time and time again that supply side economic is a failure and it takes a democrat to fix the mess it makes. If you hate this countries government so much why don't you look at Somalia as your next destination, take your gun, you will need it to guard your riches.

FAIL! caesar off the rails this early? OH NOES! It's gonna be another long day for you, Burning Man. Better set that "infrastructure" aside for later...I'm sure your boss won't mind, hypocrite.

better ice that mangina of yours but I see you and Ikarus are really serious about your Band of Thebes.... LMAO .... Face it Mickey you GOT OWNED B*TCH

Ironic, isn't it.

If the Government uses drones than it's automatically bad.

If the NRA and gun manufacturers sold drones to the public, then it would be ok.

Kind of makes you go hmmmmm.

Remote control toys are already available. Drones are here to stay.

Ain't technology great!!!

Now if you excuse me, I need get my Robo-butler back to work. He keeps watching "The Price is Right".

Salud

If you have 5 people dead from an IED, and 5 dead from a drone strike, what difference does it make to the non-combatants on who killed them?

Well-thought out comment, Repojam.

To answer the question you posed, from the point of view of a Pakistani a drone strike does not involve a foreign presence on their soil and is far more likely to hit the intended target. Those nearby, who may also injured or killed, are most often associated with that target. An IED has to be planted by someone, and it blows up whomever/ whatever passes over it. IEDs make travel more difficult and more dangerous for everyone.

From the point of view of our soldiers, drone strikes are infinitely less likely to harm someone on our side. That is how you win a war.

War is hell. What choice do we have when the threat of terrorism is ever present?

Guantanamo was tried and failed. We can't let some of those people out, even if their guilt cannot be proven, because no country is willing to take them.

Caesar Disgustus

Maybe Commodus and then you can call me Obama

Maybe I'll just call you an idiot. Because you are one.

For Christ's sake Parker, you have turned into malignancy of late. Your only saving grace at this point is that no one wants to own the ass you have become. Freaking dullard, you can't even decrypt a verbal and visual pun.

[I had no idea that granite scratched so easily.]

Granite has a range from 6 to 8 on the MOH scale, a scale for determining the relative hardness of a mineral according to its resistance to scratching. Granite chips very easily, mainly due to unseen imperfections...much like Mr. Mackey here.

Maybe I'll just call you an idiot. Because you are one.

did you find that corner yet?

lackcatwhitecat

For Christ's sake Parker, you have turned into malignancy of late. Your only saving grace at this point is that no one wants to own the ass you have become.

ouch, coming from a canuck.... but Mickey is my B*tch and s/he knows it. thats why i post, it comes...like a good loyal hound.. But the gimp needs to go crawl back in the box

Feisty Redhead,

It's fascinating watching all of the chicken hawks now wearing their bleeding hearts on their sleeves...

These very same neocons embraced and defended the largest military clusterf*ck in American history perpetrated by Dubya & the Dick and now they scream foul?

Killing 100,000's of thousand = Good

Taking out a bad guy with precision = Bad!

Not enough blood is spilled to quench their sick appetites

Once again, you are off subject and have no clue as to what you are talking about. This is not about a war; that we should or should not have been involved in. In fact if you want to discuss wars. We can say that at least Congress voted on the wars. More than I can say about the things Obama has been involved in. As for this article, the reason it is a big deal is because they are still American citizens with a right to due process. I find it funny that he is now worried about the law when Obama has already killed one American suspected of terrorism with a drone. That goes against American laws that say we have a right as American citizens to due process under the law. This man that Obama ordered to be killed was stripped of these rights. It really get blurry when the federal government says that you did something wrong and you cannot even defend yourself; personally I have a real problem with that, as should everyone.

“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have”

This has to do with Obama’s gun control issue, now that many states have passed laws saying that they will not uphold any federal law passed after January 1, 2013 having to do with the restriction of our second amendment right to bear arms. They have also made it law that any federal employee trying to enforce the law will be arrested and charged with a felony under state law. So, what this is telling me is that Obama is trying to say, no, I have all the power and you have none. Without due process Obama could, let’s take you for instance, say you are a terrorist; he does not have to support this claim and then under the law will be able to kill you. It is like what Obama is doing with drones in this country spying on every man, woman and child; it also goes against our fourth amendment that says

“Every subject has a right to be secure from all unreasonable searches, and seizures of his person, his houses, his papers, and all his possessions. All warrants, therefore, are contrary to this right, if the cause or foundation of them be not previously supported by oath or affirmation; and if the order in the warrant to a civil officer, to make search in suspected places, or to arrest one or more suspected persons, or to seize their property, be not accompanied with a special designation of the persons or objects of search, arrest, or seizure: and no warrant ought to be issued but in cases, and with the formalities, prescribed by the laws”.

It seems to me Obama has no respect for our Constitution and he will be the USA’s downfall. Freedom does not mean I can drive or walk down the street; in fact it has nothing to do with movement. Freedom is simply that as Americans we are free to live our lives without the federal government’s control, the federal government was supposed to do only these things defend the shores, establish a system of currency, Deliver the mail, Protect individual rights. That is all!

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

WE assumes people have those rights from the Creator and establishes that government shall not take them away. Any of them!

Caesar #1.92, GWB jr. is a war criminal because he lied to Congress and the World about WMD, nothing to do with drones, get it right smarty !!!

How can you compare greece and America? That is absurd. We have thousands of time more millionaires and billionaire than greece does, not to mention a great deal more money that could circulate. You cannot compare a tiny country of greece to the U.S. which is one of the most developed if not THE most developed nation in the world. For these same reasons, opponents of socialism state that we can't look at the netherlands as an example of excellent socialism in place because the population is certainly different and it's comparing apples to oranges. If the workers have money to spend, this drives up production causing more jobs and more money flow. This is simple economics. Not to mention this is MORAL. It is moral that every citizen be allowed the right to prosper and not be taken advantage of by our current system. The problem lies with the elites that want all the money for themselves and could give two @!$%#s for the common good. All they care about is profits at the expense of the people. Greed will ruin this country, the love of money will be our downfall.

Bill1488

Feisty has left this room ... seek down the hallway and you may get lucky.

WCA youre right from yesterday, time to put my little leg humper on ignore. Too bad Mike1969 left here, he was right. I was brought down to the level of stupidity and beaten by experience.

LIFE IS GREAT!!!

Caesar #1.92, GWB jr. is a war criminal because he lied to Congress and the World about WMD, nothing to do with drones, get it right smarty !!!

Uh Bush used drones too..he's as much of a war criminal as Hussein is for violatin the War Powers Act with Libya

[But the gimp needs to go crawl back in the box]

Oh my...there's that "conservative" tolerance again...denigrating the physically handicapped.

[Caesar #1.92, GWB jr. is a war criminal because he lied to Congress and the World about WMD, nothing to do with drones, get it right smarty !!!]

OH MY! Even the birds are angry at FAIL! caesar...best pack it in for the day, Burning Man. It ain't gonna get any better for you.

fielden -- Excellent question.

LosMan123 -- We did. Couldn't help but chuckle at the "Young Guns" reference. I always thought they were more suited to join the Mickey Mouse Club.

Bill1488

“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have”

The US government doesn't give anyone "everything" -- except maybe a few Wall Street con artists and corporate welfare queens, who usually get everything they want out of the government.

And by the way: States cannot nullify federal laws. That is treason. The last time a few states got together and tried that, it led to the Civil War. The outcome was not good for those states, you may recall.

Mickey,NY i hate to break the news to you like this but,There are alot of Liberals out there who are equally as intolerant as Conservatives.

I can only hope that Congress will read the entire proposal that this memo is about and answer these and other questions that have arisen since it was made public! These are the three standards: (1) where an informed, high level official of the U.S. government has determined that the targeted individual poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the United States; (2) where a capture operation would be infeasible – and where those conducting the operation continue to monitor whether capture becomes feasible; and (3) where such an operation would be conducted consistent with applicable law of war principles. In these circumstances, the ‘realities’ of the conflict and the weight of the government’s interest in protecting its citizens from an imminent attack are such that the Constitution would not require the government to provide further process to such a U.S. citizen before using lethal force.” Question #1: Who is the individual making the decision to sign the attack order and what is their ranking or level in our government? Question#2: What are they using as the definition for: posing an "imminent threat" of an attack against the United States? Question#3: What is their determination for capture operation as "infeasible"? Question#4: Why would we send in a drone into a country that we apparently have good relations with, instead of asking them to assist in the capture of these individuals? Question#5: Who is the individual that is able to make the decision that it is "infeasible" to capture the individual? Question#6: Who has the power to monitor and say that a capture is feasible? Question#7: Are these the same person making these decisions about capture? Question#8: What makes a capture "infeasible" or for someone to be captured? Question#9: Are the people monitoring the feasibility of capture on the ground or satellite observers? Question#10: How can satellite observers make a true decision on the feasibility of capture, since they are not at actual site? Question#11: What makes an operation consistent with applicable law of war principles? Question#12: What does ‘realities’ of the conflict and the weight of the government’s interest in protecting its citizens from an imminent attack actually defined as? Question13 Where do you find the power in the Constitution that would not require the government to provide further process to such a U.S. citizen before using lethal force? Question#14: Can you explain to me how we give foreign born prisoners the very rights that we are denying our citizens? There are more questions to be asked and I look forward to seeing yours!!!

Those leftist do not believein the Constitution they only use when is convenient for them, they believe in Executive orders and memos, like dictatorship, SCOTUS already rule some of the Obama Executive Orders unconstitutional and the killing of Americans even if, they are terrorist they are also subject to our Constitution, target and assassinate them and their kids is a flagrant violation of any American right. ACLU also declare this action unconstitutional, only the kool-aid drinkers , Obama worshipers, support their Messsia even when they know they are a bunch of hypocrites, condem Bush calling inhuman, and violator of the human rights for the use of waterboarding , but the killing of Americans without due process is fine.

The difference between conservatives and liberals on an issue such as drone strikes that some might decry as over-stepping the constitution is that conservatives always circle the wagons.

Liberals, on the other hand, are in the forefront of those who question the legitimacy of a policy, even if it comes from their own party or administration.

That's the right way to be, liberals... but let's not lose sight of reality. Let's support the best alternative, even if it isn't perfect.

Let the Republicans cannibalize each other. We don't need to eat our own.

We are not at war with Yemen, they are a sovereign nation that has received much money to allow us to use drones in their country in their[read our] fight against "Terrorists" and has killed some of their citizens in collateral damage. This means to me that we would also have their help in the capture of these targeted US citizens so thst they can have their due process instead of being killed! We must prove that they are in effect traitors! How does a 16 year old US citizen deserve to be assasinated? We give the foreign born prisoners in Gitmo our Constitutional legal rights, don't our own citizens deserve the same? What do you think the people in Yemen think of us violating their sovereignty? I am sure it is not making us any friends! Yet we are doing these drone attacks in Pakistan ,Yemen and Somalia, and the last time I looked we were not at war with any of them!

[WCA youre right from yesterday...]

While you're at it, ask Captain Cupholder how his company directly benefited from the auto bailout, saving his hypocritical ass. I'm sure he's just dying to fess up on that little ditty.

After all, pointing out hypocrisy is right up your alley, right Burning Man?

Sure it is...

I didn't know this until yesterday, but there was a US citizen killed on 11/03/2002 during G.W.Bush era in Yemen by our first drone attack there, his name was Kemal Derwish aka Ahmed Hijazi! I didn't remember this but this site that will give you some info on it: wsws.org/en/articles/2002/11/yem-n12.html Where was I? This is what Obama will probably claim as his legal precedence! I think that was illegal then also!Read the Constitution, especially the 5th Amendment as this pertains to the issue at hand, in short: "nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"

Obama worshipers, support their Messsia even when they know they are a bunch of hypocrites,

no they dont...Che supporters are pretty ignorant bunch. THey have NBC News, the real media.

LIFE IS GREAT

"Oh, Joey can you ever get to the point? No, you can't get to the point because you have no point Albanian hyena!!!!"

Bev meet the Kettle!

@ Seaskip

Republicans protecting the people behind "911", this is a very sad day for America !!!

Just like Democrats protect Adam Lanza and his actions at Sandy Hook by pushing gun control on law abiding citizens instead. It is indeed a sad day for America ! ! ! And you are a sad American.

Our Constitution appears to be under attack and here is another reason that I see it that way.You might also look at the NDAA of 2012 of the Indefinite Detention Clause and its continuation in NDAA 2013 That has happened under President Obama's service to our great country!Here is a site to view: rt.com/usa/news/obama-ndaa-detention-president-288/. The vagueness of the actual wording is just like in this memo and should be of great concern as it can be distorted and should be more exacting! They had the chance to change, some tried but it was kept the same! I won't even go into the issue of the 2nd Amendment!

@ Seaskip

Albright, Pelosi, Pres. Clinton, Berger, Daschle, Kerry and Levin all made the same claims about WMD's and Iraq prior to President Bushs first election.

It's your lack of ability to digest the facts that makes you jump on and continue to ride that band wagon of absurdity. You make radical statements in a shrill attempt to garner support from other shrill Liberals. On Newsvine it works...in the real world youre going to be left behind, cold and helpless.

kaybeetoys

Well-thought out comment, Repojam.

To answer the question you posed, from the point of view of a Pakistani a drone strike does not involve a foreign presence on their soil and is far more likely to hit the intended target. Those nearby, who may also injured or killed, are most often associated with that target. An IED has to be planted by someone, and it blows up whomever/ whatever passes over it. IEDs make travel more difficult and more dangerous for everyone.

From the point of view of our soldiers, drone strikes are infinitely less likely to harm someone on our side. That is how you win a war.

War is hell. What choice do we have when the threat of terrorism is ever present?

Guantanamo was tried and failed. We can't let some of those people out, even if their guilt cannot be proven, because no country is willing to take them.

I think that perhaps my "hang up" with this situation, if you will, is in regards to us treating terrorists as being on a "lower moral plane". We shouldn't be using such indiscriminate tactics if we are attempting to "win hearts and minds" and continue to play the moral high ground.

It may be unfortunate that war is hell, but at the same time, I don't believe that we should be limiting ourselves to "acceptable losses" in terms of another country's citizens.

I keep falling back to the concept of what if that was done here. Imagine the shoe on the other foot. Imagine it was Canada taking out suspected terrorists in the US. How much collateral damage is acceptable at that point? Is the fact that they did it to save their soldiers lives any sort of comfort when dead Americans are a result?

I wish I could objectively divorce myself of that concept, but it's very difficult to when we keep claiming the moral high ground in the war on terror.

What do you think the people in Yemen think of us violating their sovereignty? I am sure it is not making us any friends! Yet we are doing these drone attacks in Pakistan ,Yemen and Somalia, and the last time I looked we were not at war with any of them!

Yemen is a tribal society much like Afghanistan. Loyalty is to one's tribe and to the local sheikh, not to the central government. Yemenis continuously wage tribal skirmishes, hold grudges and seek vendettas for generations.

It is an easy place to disappear if you know the area, which makes it a haven for terrorists. The police and the military are largely ineffective. The landscape and primitive infrastructure makes travel difficult. No group of Americans could go unnoticed or unannounced there.

We would be violating Yemeni sovereignty even more if we sent troops in to arrest a terrorist. We'd have to send an army and it would end up being another Afghanistan. We were only able to track and attack bin Laden because he remained stationary for years, while the terrorists in Yemen do not. That is why drone strikes are so efficient and so effective.

Just like Democrats protect Adam Lanza and his actions at Sandy Hook by pushing gun control on law abiding citizens instead.

"Law abiding citizens"...you must mean people like Nancy Lanza.

No government has a right to kill it's citizens without due process.

The far right wing cry baby brigade is in full force. They forget all the crap they don't like that Obama has to deal with, in large part, began with the Republican administrations.

The world is screwed up because it's full of screwed up people. Live or die with it. I'm sick of hearing how Obama is Hitler, even as I don't much like him either because he realyy is going easy on those that created most of our problems. Where were all the jack offs moaning and groaning when Bush started the worst of the problems we face.

so having read many of these posts it is quite clear that those on the left truly have their panities in a knot over the conundrum of supporting barry's bush-like activites and their hatred of the bush activities. so when barry does something nasty it is met with he is our leader but when bush did not quite as harsh of an activity it is treason.

eventually a republican will win the presidency and will be empowered as a matter of obama-precedent to engage if he/she so chooses to murder American civilians if he/she thinks that is the right thing to do.

i wonder what our lefty friends will do when this republican says that since barry did it is ok for me to do it???

It's your lack of ability to digest the facts that makes you jump on and continue to ride that band wagon of absurdity. You make radical statements in a shrill attempt to garner support from other shrill Liberals. On Newsvine it works...in the real world youre going to be left behind, cold and helpless

another one gets OWNED. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Oops is that too violent for the left of che crowd...

LMFAO

LIFE IS GOOD

I think that perhaps my "hang up" with this situation, if you will, is in regards to us treating terrorists as being on a "lower moral plane". We shouldn't be using such indiscriminate tactics if we are attempting to "win hearts and minds" and continue to play the moral high ground.

Don't confuse terrorists with the general population in the places where they hide. Terrorists aren't considered 'good guys' there either. They don't care who gets caught up as collateral damage.

Terrorists are on a lower moral plane: they are mass murderers!

We have other ways to win hearts and minds, like building schools and hospitals, supporting agriculture and trade, and promoting fair elections.

Whybother-5916745

No government has a right to kill it's citizens without due process.

Is not treason during wartime an act punishable by death?

@ KayBee "Yemen’s President Saleh signed a $400m deal with the Bush administration, as part of which the US created a ‘counter-terrorism camp’ in Yemen run by the CIA, US Marines and Special Forces" this can be found at this site: thebureauinvestigates.com/2012/03/29/yemen-reported-us-covert-actions-since-2001/ We have had troops there,and the current president was their vice president from 1994-2012, so is fully aware and complicit in allowing our troops there! It also appears that we are still there as seen at site: latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/05/washington-escalation-american-clandestine-war-yemen-us-troops-.html This only tells me that we had and still have good relations with those in power in Yemen, and could have them assist us in the capture of our citizens and give them Due Process !!!

kaybeetoys

Don't confuse terrorists with the general population in the places where they hide. Terrorists aren't considered 'good guys' there either. They don't care who gets caught up as collateral damage.

Terrorists are on a lower moral plane: they are mass murderers!

We have other ways to win hearts and minds, like building schools and hospitals, supporting agriculture and trade, and promoting fair elections.

You're absolutely right, terrorists are mass murderers. If you look at the non-combatants that have been killed in drone strikes in Pakistan, we're not in much better of a light either. That's where the serious sticking point is.

We can't claim a moral highground when we are doing the *exact same thing*. Their tool is an IED that's been planted. Our tool is a guy half way across the world operating a drone with a joystick. If we are killing innocent people to stop them from killing innocent people, this is a big issue in my mind.

Thank you for the reply.

Thank you Bill, Fairfax VA

your words were very well put.

It was nice to read something that made sense and had some actual logic to it.

Unfortunately there is nothing we can do about the steel trap closed minds that lurk everywhere. I think this has to do more with stubborness and not having the ability to admit that one was wrong, or that something that they believed in is wrong and they should open their minds a bit and think outside the steel trap. How many times, and how many different ways do we need to be convinced ??

I don't like killing of any kind. I am a pacifist and always have been. I wish President Obama had slammed the door on the barbaric policies of the previous administration but he didn't and that is too bad. I guess it beats wholesale invasion and indiscriminate bombing. God - I just hate all of this.

Sabot and Heat: Actually I have to side with Wolfhound on this, if you have been on ground and had people shoot at you for these beliefs then it is 100% justified. I have had multiple tours and I know some very good people in Iraq, both kurds, and Shias and Suni's who want freedom and who appreciate our help, though the news will never tell you that. If this american even if he is 17 has "willingly" chosen to work with and for the enemies of Democracy and freedom then they are not innocent and no american lives should be spent or lost bringing them back for a trial, they made their choice now they need to live with it even at the cost of their own lives, because they were trying to cost others their lives.

KimH : Pacifiscim is a great way to be if there is someone out there willing to give all so that you can make that choice. On it's own it will get you no where. Maybe while protesting and being a pacifist you should thank all those who have given and still give so that you can have your choices in life.

Those who expect to reap the blessing of freedom must, like men,
undergo the fatigue of supporting it.
-- Thomas Paine.

I heard the whole long hearing today. I don't like the sound of this Brennan guy. When questioned about the drones use on Americans, he was very hazy about their use right here in the U.S. I suspect with the vague wording of these rules, they will one day be used on people right inside the U.S. that some president does not like. Very bad.

I agree, Innkeeper. This is not a perfect world and most decisions a president makes involve choosing between the lesser of two evils.

The War on Terrorism is ongoing. If terrorists had drones, would they use them against us?

For f---'s sake...they used our airliners, filled with our citizens, as bombs. Nothing is beyond those people.

It's kill or be killed, that is the harsh reality here. We cannot allow them to win, and if we have to bend our morality to uphold sanity in the world, we should do so.

KAYBEETOYS > Please understand that American people lost all control of its government

Pentagon station chiefs CIA couple decades ago. We honestly cant even do anything about, we

tried to protest but they just teargas and hit us.4 billion dollars are sucked by Israel each year

single Israeli can never die for USA same Taliban who are killed now by USA drones

previously helped USA in Russian afghan war previously they were

called mujaheddin now Taliban BEFORE USA USED THEM NOW KILLING THEM Y?in reward they

attack Bomb suicide attacks civilians in neighboring countries as

they don't have access technology to hit back USA We Agree with American report that these

drone attacks are against international law and must be discontinued.The Obama administration

has been widely criticized for its increased reliance on drone strikes which were started by idiot

bush We need health care,education,jobs not useless wars started by bush with the support

of Jewish lobbies.GOD BLESS THIS EARTH WITH LOVE AND PEACE NOT WITH KILLING MACHINES DRONES@WARS.

"The ostensibly most liberal member of the committee, Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon merely argued for more public discussion of the drone program so that the American people could become familiar with "what rules the government is going to observe when it conducts targeted killings."

"Every American has the right to know when their government believes it's allowed to kill them," declared Wyden, enunciating a rather truncated vision of basic constitutional rights."

"…Similarly, Angus King (Independent, Maine) asked Brennan whether some kind of secret court, like the FISA court that rubber stamps warrants for domestic spying, could be set up to give a legal veneer to the state assassination program in cases where American citizens are the targets…"

Senate hearing on John Brennan whitewashes US assassination program

By Bill Van Auken

8 February 2013

The hearing conducted Thursday afternoon by the Senate Intelligence Committee on the nomination of President Barack Obama's counterterrorism advisor John Brennan as director of the Central Intelligence Agency served to whitewash Washington's drone assassination program.

In their questioning of Brennan, both Democratic and Republican senators declared their support and admiration for the CIA and their backing for the "war on terrorism," while ignoring or skirting the deep-going ramifications of the Obama administration's arrogation to itself of the authority to order the extra-judicial killing of US citizens.

Not a single member of the committee subjected Brennan to criticism or even harsh questioning, and there was no indication that any of them would vote against his confirmation. In that sense, the hearing provided a vivid measure of the sharp shift to the right by the entire political establishment, and the Democratic Party in particular, after four years of the Obama presidency.

In 2008, Brennan was Obama's first choice for CIA director. He had to withdraw his name from consideration in the face of opposition over his role as a top CIA official under the Bush administration, as well as his public statements supporting extraordinary rendition and so-called "enhanced interrogation techniques," i.e., torture. Now, not only are these past crimes forgiven, but his role in organizing a secretive state killing program out of the White House is treated as no impediment to his confirmation…

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/02/08/bren-f08.html

Houston!

“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have”

The US government doesn't give anyone "everything" -- except maybe a few Wall Street con artists and corporate welfare queens, who usually get everything they want out of the government.

This was a quote from Thomas Jefferson one of our founding fathers. The government also shells out public welfare, even to illegal immigrants; the far left is great with this tactic. It is called buying the vote, like Obama did, when he gave all the green companies great big loans from the tax payers; never mind that these same people where his top contributors in 2008. The federal government is not to help any privately held company, because it creates an unfair advantage to other companies and puts governments interests in that private business. You are right they should stop giving out subsidies to companies, but I will tell you one thing at least these companies contribute to our society by putting people to work, everyone bitches about not being able to make a decent living! Here is the answer to all of your problems, find a skill, invent something, or have knowledge that is a desired asset, then whala; you have a job with a livable income. Here is another great quote

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not â‚” Thomas Jefferson.

This quote is most fitting as you can see it is exactly what is transpiring in this country right now. The far left wants the illegal emigrants in this country just for that reason. I understand, you will say this is not the case, if that were in fact true you would have to show an ID every time that you voted in this country. What the far left is missing is that they are turning us into criminals, with all the surveillance that they support. It is unconstitutional to put the public under surveillance with the drones they are now flying over us. The federal governments’ job is just to do the follows that is all defend the shores, establish a system of currency, Deliver the mail, Protect individual rights. That is all!

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

“My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." Thomas Jefferson.

The federal government is way out of control it needs to be reined in for the good of the country.

And by the way: States cannot nullify federal laws. That is treason. The last time a few states got together and tried that, it led to the Civil War. The outcome was not good for those states, you may recall.

The state has a right to enforce or not enforce laws, just look at Obama; he has side stepped many federal laws, like the right to due process, when he killed the four Americans that he has killed with drones since he took office. He can think and say that they were terrorists but because they are American citizens they have a right to be heard in a court of law; to confront their accuser but he took those rights away by killing them, no trial, no proof that they were terrorists. Even if you don’t think he killed four, there was the one that he took credit for or what about Obama not enforcing our emigration laws? The state does have a right to not enforce federal law, just look at Washington State, we have legalized marijuana for recreational use, which is a federal crime to use or possess marijuana , yet, we in Washington said we are going to make it available if you want to smoke it and are 21 years old. So that just blows your little comments out of the water. See the federal government is the reason we have a second amendment; it is not so we can hunt or for sport it is for as you say above should the time come when the majority of states believes there is a tyrannies committed by the federal government then the will be another civil war. Just go back through history and see how many times empires fall, it happens from within. I believe and I hope that I am wrong that that is Obama’s sole purpose to bring American to her knees. I say that because of his record and the positions he has taken on issues, he said he would bridge the gap in 2008 in Congress but has only made it worse. He said Bush was unpatriotic for spending $4.5 trillion dollars in 8 years but he has put $6.2 trillion dollars on in just 4 years. He wants to divide America as I see it, or whoever is pulling his strings.

And then there's you, who merely likes droning on.

Everybody should just ignore Texas.

Everybody should just ignore Texas.

We should give them back to Mexico!

If we got rid of Texas where would all the people fleeing the high taxes of the bankrupt liberal bastion of California have to go?

M0-681343

Everybody should just ignore Texas.

Somebody already messed with Texas. That place is screwed up, but good.

So waterboarding was terrible and wrong but killing American citizens with out any kind of trial and little evidence is OK.....Something is terribly wrong with that and is as two-sided as it gets.

M0-681343

Everybody should just ignore Texas.

Except for Austin and, of course, Houston!

Sorry, Houston! I'd add San Antonio and San Marcos to the good list too.

This is the kind of a law that only a totalitarian government would create! The fact that no one in Congress seems to be opposing it should clue everyone in that we are no longer living in a democratic country. They put on a good show with all of their theatrics, but in the end, they do things the way they want and soon, we'll be forced to follow even at gun point and into the ovens if necessary - especially if anyone dares to speak out too loudly! Of course now, they can just blow up such a person with a drone strike and give absolutely no explanation or justification except to say it was for national security - well, at least for their own security!

WE ARE THE INVADERS.WE ARE the ones who have killed and maimed over 600,000 since 9/11.Sabre rattling, war mongering, bullying, bombing , DRONING , clandestine operatives, mercenaries (SCUM), and invading of sovereign countries against ALL international laws..These supposed terrorists have no means of invading America!

Most defenseless people have no mean to invade USA,The only beneficiaries of this terrorism of the USA is the military Zionists industrialists, oil crooks and wall streeters raping propaganda wars and pillaging the countries we invade.

"….Those comforting themselves with the old adage, “It can’t happen here,” should think again. The lurch to the right by the entire American political establishment and its irrevocable break with the democratic principles enunciated in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are very far advanced.."

The US drone assassination program and the threat of dictatorship

9 February 2013

Thursday’s confirmation hearing for John Brennan, President Barack Obama’s nominee for director of the US Central Intelligence Agency, provided a revealing and grim spectacle of the disintegration of what remains of democratic rights in the United States…

…Just four years ago, Brennan’s involvement as a top CIA official under the Bush administration in the crimes of torture, extraordinary rendition and secret CIA “black sites” made it impossible for Obama to nominate him as CIA director. Now, not only are those crimes forgiven, but the even more serious ones involved in the drone assassination program go unchallenged.

We have already seen in the past few years anti-terror laws invoked against domestic protesters and dissidents, from the arrest of five men last May in Chicago on “conspiracy to commit terrorism” charges for their involvement in anti-NATO protests, to the revelation that the FBI carried out a nationwide investigation treating the Occupy Wall Street protests as “domestic terrorism.”

Driving the turn towards methods associated with police state dictatorships are deep-going changes in the structure of American society. The vast and ever-widening chasm between the billionaires and multi-millionaires who control economic and political life and working people, the great majority of the population, is incompatible with democracy.

This is ultimately what explains the complicity of the Obama administration, Congress, both major parties and the mass media in the drone assassination program. America’s ruling oligarchy realizes that deepening social polarization and the protracted economic crisis are creating conditions for social upheavals, and is preparing accordingly…

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/02/09/pers-f09.html

blackcatwhitecat

ARRRGH !… Benghazi drones, RWNJ Every turd is a drone!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPPBnciNAqI

blackcatwhitecat,

Yup, the turds over @ "BIGOTS R US' aka FOX NEWS, gun nuts, and the RWNJs could use some Ty-D-Bol.

There is no equivalency between Dick Cheney & Bush's torture and keeping our nation safe with drones.

Which of our (Gods) decides whether we are innocent or guilty or if you are worthy of life?

Who pushes the button to end a perceived guilty or innocent life; it seems we no longer will have the opportunity to prove we are innocent, correct?

What happened to Due process; our rights or our Liberty(s)?

How many innocents will be erased of their life opportunities as collateral damage, and what is the acceptable collateral damage?

What gives (our) simple representatives the right to ultimately decide, without due process or counsel that we are evil?

Just a thought, but what is deemed justifiable today as a crime may not to be justifiable tomorrow or may even morph to selective thinning of what our simple representatives deems a threat; maybe we should ask what defines a threat.

When we give up our Rights and Freedoms, we deserve neither yet we deserve what we allow.

Why is this so secret, I thought that they worked for the people of this great country, and don’t we have the right to know we’re being hunted now too?

Trust or Representatives’; since when? Don't forget that, We The People" are the USA.

Please turn off your political agendas for one minute and try to see if this makes sense to you... just saying.

All of this pining for Due Process,...for enemy combatants - and yet, no sadness over Osama bin Laden?

Hypocrisy knows no bounds, eh?

Come out, come out, where ever you combatants are,...so we can process you. Now come on, we asked nicely. What? You're not coming out?

Well, allrighty then, I guess you just called our bloviating bluff. Man, republicans really ARE chickenhawks. Remember when they used to shoot first and ask questions later?

Those were the good ole' war days, eh?

I have nothing against Obama using a drone missile to kill the Al-Qaeda terrorist/American citizen Al-Awlari (sp?). What I have a problem with is the GROSS lack of checks in the white paper's claim that Obama could do similarly to ANY American citizen if someone, somewhere decides for themselves that it's justified. Al-Awlari should have been tried in-absentia, maybe in a closed court using top-secret intel, and found guilty. Then, the drone strike wouldn't have been murder, or an assassination, it would have been an execution. Perfectly legal.

Or maybe they should have gone before a judge and presented evidence of treason. Or maybe they should have gone before the National Security Council in the House and Senate. Or maybe they should have done SOMETHING that even came CLOSE to due process, checks and balances, or something other than just killing an American citizen because he was inconvenient.

In short, my biggest problem is that this white paper could be used to justify a strike in the south of France, maybe against someone who's moved there to avoid some high taxes or something. Or, for that matter, it could probably be used to strike right here in the US, maybe against a judge who's ruling could possibly have hurt the President's position. Think I'm paranoid? No, I'm an engineer. Building in safety checks is common sense for engineers, and this has NONE! I'm not even saying that Obama would be the one to do it. It could be the president after him, or the one after that. Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter. This unchecked power to assassinate US Citizens anywhere in the world is too dangerous. It SHOULD NOT BE.

And, for the record, I'm against the Patriot Act, too.

Umm, "Clara of KC Mo", OBL was not an American citizen, and therefore not entitled to the due process that is guarenteed under our Constitution. Please see my post @ #1.31 to see just how many Constitutional rights were either bypassed, our outright ignored by this administration. It staggers the mind at how blind the left is when it comes to the document that has established this Republic we now live in. But I've seen several liberal posters here explicitly saying that we need to change, or re-write the Constitution. Yeah right. While we're at it we should just change our National Anthem to "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing!", so that it is deemed as "less bellicose" to our citizenry. And in case you didn't know, Mr. Obama did endorse everything I wrote in the last sentence. No leader should have the ability to pick and choose what sections of the Constitution apply to whom, regardless of party affiliation. But by all means, defend this ultimate chickenhawk who would rather wage an Xbox war by proxy. Afterall, it's easier to "beg for forgiveness, rather than ask for permission.".

I used OBL to illustrate just how SIMPLE it is to gain compliance with 'voluntary' submission.

Drones are a safer, superior war tool. Are we not at war? That should be common sense; but clearly the word 'common' is overused here.

WAKE UP... STOP DRONES..all we are doing is creating more and more countries and people around the world who hate Americans and America.....Something practical and serious steps required immediately before the cold wars change into nuclear wars &end this world GOD BLESS WHOLE WORLD WITH PEACE AND PROSPERITY.

So true, where is the outrage in which our citizens are gunned down daily, and our leaders don't have the balls to do anything about it?

However, these same people who spew the fake outrage, if we as a Nation kill Trader Americans that conspire with the enemy to kill even more Americans.

So Johntho, along the lines of that logic, EITs should be ok too, right, because we are getting useful information in our fight on terror (yes, it's ok for me to say terror)? We are using it to protect our country from enemies foreign and domestic, right?

Can't have it both ways.

Stick to your safe haven of First Read, Job 1, because when you tried to push your agenda a couple of afternoons ago about this topic, you were immediately exposed as an uninformed an uneducated citizen. It was actually humorous to see the gen public pounce on your ignorance.

What's great about this country is we have room for you too.

TexasT- One is new technology that hasn't been court or internationally tested the other is and has been against international law. Until it is decided by the rest of the world, I say it is ok, using your argument in WW l l, we would be speaking Nippon now. Besides we know your argument is simply politicizing at its worse. Now go listen to your radio and get some more "idea's"

I agree with Job 1, TexasT, now run along and play with your gun.

So let me get this straight

Killing people with drones good.

Waterboarding and getting intel bad.

Just want to know the rules.

No, you just want to water the plant, keet, it really is two different subjects, only a ditto brained idiot would even bring it up. Is that what you heard on Rush yesterday?

Rush will be giving TexasT his fake outrage talking points later today!

Opinions without information equals ignorance!

Johntho don't tell TexasT to go play with a gun, he'll shoot himself. You know how those gun nuts are, they're not only dangerous to society their a danger to themselves.

keet59

So let me get this straight

Killing people with drones good.

Waterboarding and getting intel bad.

Just want to know the rules.

What are your rules, Keet? Invading a foreign country that had NOTHING TO DO with 9/11 good?

Slaughtering hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis and Afghanis good?

Killing and maiming tens of thousands of U.S. troops to take out a few terrorists good?

Targeting and striking Al Qaeda kingpins with drones bad?

Are you aware that there are violent, dangerous people in this world who wish to do us and this country great harm? How do you propose we protect ourselves?

Buy an arsenal of assault weapons?

If you haven't read Animal Farm by George Orwell or if you can't remember what it's about I suggest you do as soon as possible, because it's coming....and I don't care who your voting for.

May Obama and his administration act more cruel this time as Obama don't have fear any more to be re elected third time but could harm democratic party similar as people hate republicans after devil bush destruction's which proven in fresh elections may he not repeat same mistakes again, and Hope second presidential term of Obama bring end to all kind of double standards along secret torture cells for the prisoners and ongoing useless propaganda Wars, Drones in the world specially in Asia,middle east,and gulf countries started since evil bush regime and stop invading more free states for oil hunger or other secret hidden dirty desires for supporting Zionist Jews no more to kill us army and miss use of NATO forces and precious tax payer money in bombs wars undercover dirty missions in the name of foreign policies risking Americans and other people lives in Iraq Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon,Sham, Egypt, Iran, Palestine,libya etc etc GOD BLESS THIS UNIVERSE with peace and prosperity.

New day, your whole post, as with most of the obstruction from the right can be summed up by this. Good post.

"Whatever the President does he will be hated by the right wing nutcases that hold the Republican Party hostage."

Elections have consequences, as the left found out in 2010 and the right is bound to find out in 2012-14 and 2016.

I know I'd really appreciate it.

Good Morning NDD,

That makes two of us!

vacationing at his "ranch" like Georgie was when 4000 or so Americans were murdered by terrorists hijacking planes?

One of my biggest complaints against the Obama administration was he decided NOT to persue investigations on what really went on after 911.

Yet, we were subjected to non stop Benghazi-Gate 24/7 by the RWNJ's for months on end!

Guess, the consolation prize is knowing Dubya & the Dick can't leave our borders... lol

It is getting tiresome, Johntho, and this refusal of the right to do their jobs and the nations business should cause them to be replaced in the next election.

Well, except for that gerrymandering thing...

Hi ya Feisty! Have you been over to Newsvine yet? I think I shall avoid it.

What is really laughable about this whole thing is that right after 911 the doors were thrown wide open here in this country and the Muslims just poured in. They are still coming in by the Hundreds of thousands. BUT, the government says they check their background before they let them in. Yeah, sure they do. Think we have a problem now? During the second world war would we let hundreds of thousands of Germans and Japanese into our country? That would have been insane, like now.

Agree NDD, Feisty and Johntho!

Imagine if President Obama had been asleep at the switch, vacationing at his "ranch" like Georgie was when 4000 or so Americans were murdered by terrorists hijacking planes?

Hey DA I pretty sure GW was in Florida reading to children when the planes hit the towers get your facts right. Now on the other hand President Obama was in bed dreaming of Vegas and couldn't be bothered with 4 Americans being killed in Benghazi.

And Shrubbie was where when he was told those attacks were being planned?

I don't know if he was ever told that the towers were targets and 4000 Americans were in immanent danger but that is not what you wrote.

Get your facts straight ozziey01. Remember the memo, "Al-Qaeda determined to strike with planes in US". Bush was told of this memo while vacationing at his ranch a month before 9/11 and he ignored it. Oh that's right you forget anything that doesn't fit your rage.

"immanent"

Wow.

So answer the question....where was Shrubbie when he was notified the attacks were being planned?

If the United States gets hit again by terrorist on our our soil, many people will be screaming for the use of more drones in order to get these same terrorist.

I'm pretty sure GW was in Florida reading to children

Oh, yeah, that's so much better.

where was Shrubbie when he was notified the attacks were being planned?

I don't know where was the current President when he was warned about Benghazi? Probably in the clubhouse getting ready to start holes 19 - 36 isn't that where he normally is?

Oh, yeah, that's so much better.

No Amy just correct.

Elections have consequences? As Republicans found out in 2010? Really...another incredibly "stupid Post by Johntho........Here I will help you remember what happened in 2010.... The Republicans won the House in one of the largest Landslides ever in an Election.......Yep I guess the election in 2008 had consequences.

Johntho ... I was looking for you and your friends ...where are you hiding.... Because you didn't know how much Taxes the Rich man really paid for you .. I have Fact Check.org material for you. You know it was way more than I thought....Do you want me to share it with you?

@mike-Pa: Johntho hiding???? I done seed Him 2 or 3 times this moaning. HE'S RIGHT CHER!!!!?????

Bill Ayers & Bernadine Dorhn. I bet you could target them right now then

@Jay-1891719 #5.16: Likely. Don't think it would do you any good though. Neither one of 'em would date you.

@ Mac

Since I've been happily married for nearly 30 years, I really don't need a date. When you date these days, how do you protect yourself? Do you require bloodwork before copulation? Now that is on a level of plain nonsense, as yours was

There is NO justification= Drones are morally and ethically wrong and no citizen of any country should be killed indiscriminately. STOP the USA military madness and end the war mongering, sabre rattling, bullying, bombing,DRONING, hiring of mercenaries (SCUM) and invasions of sovereign countries.

Why is it only Democratic Presidents who seem to be able to do both? Develop diplomatic ties and execute our enemies?

Because republicans can only do one thing at a time Amy. And they usually screw that up.

How, by bowing and kissing their azzes.

@dont mess with texas: Ain't it the truth! I have an acquaintance who was there messing some years ago, and CAUGHT the CLAP. Took at least a gallon of Penicillin to get Him cured. Texas CLAP ain't fer the faint of heart!

@ Amy

That diplomacy is working splendidly in Northern Africa? Here have some more money

Stop these useless wars stop oil hunger STOP Killing Machines DRONES Along invading free states increasing

hate imposing foreign policies don't waste precious money of taxpayers on stupid things

Don't destroy the peace of this earth any more do something good so the rest of nation and

generations remember you in good words god bless this universe.

HEY! I'm not on it?

Rats.

Dear NRA: You are the most treasonous group that exists in this nation. I do believe special dispensation should be given to outlaw your group . And that all of you who are members, who are not seriously entertaining a peaceful coup to replace the current leadership should be required by law to take mental health evaluations. The leadership of the NRA should be assumed to have serious paranoid disorders that allows for the removal of their weapons, and have them herded into mental health facilities.

NOW do I make the enemies list?

I'm Episcopalian...so I guess I'm on the list.

Oh, you're already on the list, newday. Guaranteed! ;-)

To the "most treasonous group that exists in this nation" I would add the John Birch Society. No doubt there is a big overlap between them and the NRA.

I forgot about the John Birch Society, Jack. And we shouldn't because Rand Paul is in a national office, a proponent of theirs.

Wow, I was a bit worried that I wasn't on it either, but then I remembered that I'm totally unorganized, so I don't belong to any of those groups. Luckily, I scrolled down a bit more and found the list of corporations they're also terrified of - I love me some Ben & Jerry's Chunky Monkey once in a while, and I'm probably in Hallmark at least a couple times a month, so I think I'm covered.

But geez, so much for "Nobody doesn't like Sara Lee".....

Oh, and then there's the list of fearsome celebrities. If we're playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, I can get there in only four, so that's got to be guilt by association, right? :)

Great list. But they missed a group that I support that should be on it. Mayors Against Illegal Guns. Please consider making a monthly automatic contribution to them to help take down the NRA!!!

I agree with NewDayDawning, put Amy B Portland ME on the NRA's enemies list! THe NRA is nothing more or less than a lobbyist group for the gun industry, they don't care about preventing gun violence, or about protecting the 2nd amendment rights of gun owners, which were never under attack, anyway, that was a strawman argument they thought up to raise membership. The NRA is just about reaping profits from fear and criminality.

Meee, meee, put me on the list, along with several million other responsible gun owners who don't buy into their fear tactics.

That was very funny, JoAnne.

I hadn't know that about Rand Paul, newday, though I guess it's consistent with being a Libertarian. One more thing not to like about him.

Phew, they left out Canadians ... that was close! But I do kinda feel left out ...Why doesn`t anyone hate us???

Why doesn`t anyone hate us???

I hate Nickelback and Justin Bieber. Does that count?

I used to hate waiting on Canadians when I waitressed in Bar Harbor - Canadians don't tip!

(But I don't really hate you, I was headed your way if McCain/Palin had won in '08.)

Does that count?

More than you could ever know! :-)

Canadians don't tip!

This one does ... 20%, and if its late at night and my fantasies have a mind of their own, 21%.

"Why doesn`t anyone hate us???"

You gave the teenage me Bernie Parent and Bill Clement and you gave the adult me some awesome trips to Toronto and Vancouver and Victoria and Whitehorse - that goes a long way towards making up for Justin Bieber!

...like JoAnne said...you gave us Rush, The Band, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Oscar Peterson and Barenaked Ladies...that more than lets you off the hook for Nickelback and Justin Bieber.

... annnnnd ... basketball! Do plastic garbage bags count?

Good god people. Don't you listen to anything but pop music? You must add Frank Marino to the list of great Canadiens. And Gordie Howe & Wayne Gretzky aint too bad either

What is the big deal with the NRA having a list? You don't think the ACLU, NAACP, AARP, local, county, state, and federal government don't have lists? You guys crack me up. BTW I don't belong, as I wouldn't to the first 3 I posted

Until america stops treating? other nations as if they were indigenous american what about the Afghanistan situation. U.S used depleted uranium missiles on populated areas, now there are newly born DEFORMED babies The Iraqi city of Fallujah is now experiencing an alarming increase in birth defects. A recently-published medical study indicates that exposure to toxic metals from U.S. munitions are responsible.GOD BLESS THIS WORLD STOP WARS DRONES LIVE WITH PEACE AND LOVE AND LEAVE OTHERS TO LIVE SAME WAY WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION.

This may be the truest post on the thread! HA!

Nah. Nancy Pelosi takes the blue ribbon

Wow, I have never heard either side with the enemy's, it must be your tin foil hat needs tuning.

Opinions without information equals ignorance!

it must be your tin foil hat needs tuning

No it just got hit by lightning with COCHINO wearing it Johntho.

@ cochino

Is that a poor representation of the Nazi symbol?

The power of lies, deceptions and disinformation as Americans pay the price of collective stupidity. “You

know very well, and we the stupid Americans know equally well, that we ZIONIST JEWS control their

government, irrespective of who sits in the White House. You see, We know it and you know it that

no American president can be in a position to challenge us even if we do the unthinkable. What can

they (Americans) do to us? We control congress, we control the media, we control show biz, and we

control everything in America.

Where was Georgie when he was told the attack was being planned? If you are going to refer to one of my posts, speak with respect.

And of course, Georgie, getting that stupid look on his face and sitting there for HOW long in a group of children really showed leadership, didn't it?

I reserve respect for those with some smarts. Your post was a bald faced lie which you are now trying to crawfish on. Go F yourself you self-righteous little prick.

Yeah, Bush should have stood up and screamed "holy sh*t! We're under attack! Run for your lives!" in the room full of children. Bush was President all of nine months when 9-11 happened. I am sure the entire operation was planned ONLY while he was President.

newday, he was talking feisty the female dweebs post not yours but now that youve brought it up ill give you the respect you deserve you fuc--ng IDIOT

And newday, I can't fart loud enough to show you the respect you deserve.

What the matter poor Ulysesses..did you get your little feelings hurt?

Honestly, don't care much about how you feel, about me or anything else. You don't have the brain power to light a 5 watt bulb.

lurch sweetie, I know reading is fundamental.

He quotes MY post you dweeb. Grow up.

Newday

You demanded my respect. That says all one needs to know about you and your state of mind. You couldn't even begin to hurt my feelings but you certainly can incite my condescending loathing of you and your ilk on the left.

Again, I can't fart loud enough to give you the respect you deserve.

Ulysesses,

The point is, stupid, Shrub was asleep at the wheel. It didn't matter where he was--he was always on vacation, letting Cheney and Rummy and Bolton and Rove and the gang run the show.

Ahh, Jack, we are talking with trolls.

They just can't face facts.

Newday, are you saying Ulysesses is a dim wit? Bullseye with that arrow.

They just can't face facts.

Farts "jokes" are more there speed!

Your opinion is not necessarily fact, newday. As much as you wish it were.

Typical arrogant liberal douche bag. Keep up the weak seepage. It is the Demosocialist trademark.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

They just can't face facts.

Farts "jokes" are more there speed!

=============

Using my best Demosocialist tactics learned from this very blog....

it is their, not there

From a typical fascist pond scum liar.

Fascist is it? Then you must be homosexual. Stereotyping runs both ways.

it is their, not there

Oh, I just love this. Ulysesses correcting others' English. Well, big guy, here's what you said down in #18.5.

Your getting very emotional.

Feeling stupid yet? Because you are (stupid).

@fiesty--- Fine one to talk about what's a joke you hypocrit. Remember your post concerning the human fetus. What was it you said again? "Nothing but a glob of cells". I would like to hear you say that to lets say your daughter,----- if she came home and proudly told you she was pregnant. WOULD YOU SAY THAT TO HER??. You are one sick slice of Illinois dung at its finest. Yeah honey, I'll take you seriously. Real intelligent statement to make, of course, all you're really looking for are the little highlighted favors of a reply in the lower right hand corner, aren't you. LMAO.

Ulysesses Everett McGill

Oh brother, thou art not anywhere ... remotely sane. Besides that, the movie hated you.

Is that the best your bunch of clowns can come with? For the love of all that's holy, I am not intimidated.

Jack in newdaysmouth

I never feel stupid about typographical errors. If a slight error causes you to completely miss the meaning of my message, you obviously are not sharp enough to grasp the point anyway. I was in post #15.14 echoing an often used Demosocialist Weapon of Mass Deflection.

Next?

bcw,

Oh brother, thou art not anywhere ... remotely sane. Besides that, the movie hated you.

Does this mean that his avatar is not of him but some movie star? Boy, if that's true it's pretty weird. Says a lot about him . . . .

Jack

George Clooney playing McGill in O Brother Where Art Thou.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZtgZ5fHOuU

Thanks, bcw. I didn't know that.

The personal rancor reflected in that remark I do not intend to dignify with comment. I will however address your general attitude of hopeless negativism. Consider the lilies of the god-damn field or hell, take blackcatwhitecat as your paradigm of hope.

How was that boys?

@ Jack

But it was ok that Clinton fell asleep while getting things polished, right?

Making up stuff for political purpose, oh yeah thats you. Wake up Gary k, before you get what you wish for.

Johntho

Do you read any of your fellow Demosocialists lying drivel? Made up for your political purpose?

Made up such as???

Try getting your head out of comrade obama's azz???

Illegal use of EP? right, sure, absolutely the truth from rush. But not in real life. Bankrupting America, liar, Obama hasn't spent one cent. But don't let the constitution bother you. Depleting our military, you say that like its a bad thing, Attacking the 2nd amendment, not true, bald face right wing fascist lie.

You fascist are all alike, if you can't find something real you will just make stuff up to suit your political needs. Now run along and tune in your radio, you freaking traitor, Rush will be on in just an hour and a half.

Johntho

Your getting very emotional. Take a Midol for those menstrual cramps.

Ulysesses, you are getting dumber, which I for one didn't think was possible. None of what Gary wrote is anything but right wing bovine excrement and you should know that.

Johntho

I do know anything you write is complete left wing Demosocialist horse sheega.

Johnny

It means nothing coming from you.

WHY DO VICTIMS REMAIN NAMELESS IN DRONE ATTACKS ? 3% to be suspected militant while 97% to be innocent people but according to published reports,these drone attacks-are against international law and must be discontinued. A plan is now in the works to harness tiny drones to spy on U.S. citizens.We need health care,education,jobs not useless wars started by bush with the support of Jewish lobbies saw two of these Drone Planes, in our little county, in Northern California They' are Flying everywhere! We are losing our Freedoms -? Freedom is Not Free!

go suck eggs gary

And mitt would be so much better, which mitt? The one that talks lies or the one that told lies?

Johntho

Betty White would be better

lurch, illegals are voting?

Proof please...

Betty White would have been better then Mitt. But President Obama is doing the work of the people. NOT mitt corp.

What "people" is Obama working for? I can assure you, it isn't me.

Me and you, even though your brain is clouded by right wing barnyard bovine excrement.