Senators with R & D after their name are having issue with this drone memo. Good to see our officials defending constitutional rights.

First Read: The Israeli press is reporting that Obama’s visit will take place on March 20. By the way, No way the president would agree to go to Israel unless Netanyahu wasn’t promising SOME progress on the peace talks.

___________________

Wow.

Not frist

Backhouse, I had completely forgotten about the JFK quote. Thanks for the reminder.

Terrific words from you this morning on this gun battle, that shouldn't be. Not in America.

Johntho

Not first ... nor last, "but the times they are a changing."

It's party time for the immeasurably ignorant dolts who control the Republican Party; the right wing that revels in stupidity. In their empty heads they see a President who cannot win. Predator drones! Praise be to god for Predator drones. Let's have a party.

If the President launches drone strikes to kill suspected American traitors who are plotting violence, he is killing innocent Americans. After all, they haven't had a trial, right? Innocent until proven guilty, right? The President is evil.

If the President does not launch pre-emptive drone strikes, he allows these "innocent" Americans to plot their violence, and kill Americans with a new attack. If they launch a successful attack, the President screwed up by not stopping them. The President is evil. Lose-lose for the President. Win-win for the right wing idiots.

At what point does the American public understand the horrible choices facing the Commander-in-Chief? The United States has not been at war since 1945. About 100,000 dead American troops, hundreds of thousands more wounded, millions of dead at the hands of American armed forces since 1945, and not one single war.

The Constitution says only Congress can declare war. Congress steadfastly refuses to do that. What it has done is engage in a Pontius Pilate hands-washing exercise by passing into law the War Powers Act and similar laws. Congress has set itself up to criticize the President for taking actions it doesn't have the courage to do itself.

How is it possible to have prisoners of war, when there is no war? How does the Geneva Convention apply to prisoners who have been captured in foreign countries, but are not soldiers? They aren't covered under American law. They can't be tried in American courts. In many cases, in the countries in which they were fighting, they are viewed as freedom fighters, as patriots, and yes, as heroes. Lock 'em up at Guantanamo and throw away the key.

If you can't see a problem that does not have a clean solution, you have to be brainless. If you cannot see a problem that is the creation of warmongering politicians, you have to be brainless. If you cannot see a problem that is the direct result of U.S. interference in civil wars outside our borders, you have to be brainless.

One need not understand the incredible complexity of the issue of drones, intervention in foreign wars, terrorism, Congressional cowardice, and a host of other variables. It is enough to recognize that those who hold the levers of power in Washington, D.C. must make decisions that are not perfect. It is enough to say, "Make the tough choices, and make them now. End this destructive cycle." To hell with the right wing that cheers the comfort of failure.

We haven't yet heard from Albany Joe today. No doubt, he is happily counting his pennies after hitting the earthquake/tsunami jackpot. There is nothing like a disaster to elate ole Joe and, after betting on futures of both a quake and a tsunami, he hit the mother load. I believe stinky fish and yeasty warm beer is ole Joe's future(s).

(Could conservatives be more Wicked?)

TexasT, Congress was the one that Authorized War against Al Quida & its affiliates back in 2001-2002, so there is'nt much they can say, other than lotsa Bluster about Nothing.

How many are gonna Fall for the changing rhetoric of the GOP, without Policy changes? Sounds likea question for "Who wants to be a Millionare?

Roger Ailes @ Fox News has determined that Dick Morris is Harmful to his networks Brand now!

Are Shawn & Bill next? We will see!

You Betcha!

Occupy SoggyBottom!

Dear Joe in All BaaaBaaaBaaa ny

Odd how you blame Obama for everything that George did wrong … echoes of reverse racism and other cute GOP talking points.

To answer the question as to everything you need to know about Joe, I present the complete unedited posts of Joe in Albany

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LSr2igqhIw

and to those with time on their hands … the Tea Party as explained by Monty Python …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TeiSsJ3G_0&playnext=1&list=PLA0EFD3504205CD87&feature=results_video

"but Americans do not support sacrificing real spending cuts for more tax hikes,”

Please Mr. Boner you don't speak for Americans, most Americans want the problems solved, not passed on to future generations. Tax those that can afford it most and do not cut life lines for the poor, and above all do not cut medicare or raise the age of retirement simply to shelter those that need to pay more because they have more.

The scrutiny so far is coming from the left and the news media, and that’s it.

I'm not surprised the GOP hasn't done backflips over the use of drones to kill Americans. After all, that is the Republican favorite past time - Americans killing Americans. The current crop of Republicans have been threatening Civil War for the past 30 years, and by the way they are stockpiling weapons of mass destruction, I wouldn't put it past them to begin using them pronto.

Budget Battle?...... don't forget the $100 million per month for "Obama's Phone" buddy.........

A cellphone company whose top executive has close ties to President Obama lobbied for and won a piece of a major new government push to provide Internet service to low-income job-seekers, even though critics say the company’s smartphones are poorly suited to the task of helping those in the program find work.

TracFone CEO F.J. Pollak has been a frequent White House visitor and his wife Abigail has raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for both Mr. Obama’s 2008 and 2012 campaigns.

And although TracFone had originally lobbied for the program, critics say its contract would not provide recipients with skills-boosting computers and services, but would supply high-end Android phones, ready to play games and browse Facebook but doing little in the way of getting a job.

Billionaire backing

TracFone is a subsidiary of Mexico’s American Movil, part of the corporate empire of billionaire entrepreneur Carlos Slim, often listed as the world’s richest man. The company denies that it engaged in improper lobbying or exploiting the Pollaks’ political and social connections to Mr. Obama.

Mrs. Pollak is listed as one of 230 fundraisers to have brought in the better part of $1 million for the president’s 2012 campaign, and did the same in 2008.

Mr. Pollak has visited the White House numerous times, including for public gatherings such as the Easter Egg Roll and a Cinco de Mayo party, said Jose Fuentes, a spokesman for America Movil.

“That has absolutely nothing to do with business. There’s been no pay-for-play — or even favors. What he does in his private time is his,” he said............ yeah right!

David Walker, quite an impressive post you have.

These words in particular struck me:

The Constitution says only Congress can declare war. Congress steadfastly refuses to do that. What it has done is engage in a Pontius Pilate hands-washing exercise by passing into law the War Powers Act and similar laws. Congress has set itself up to criticize the President for taking actions it doesn't have the courage to do itself.

All this hullabaloo about Drones targeting Americans is redcules. These "PEOPLE" are no longer Americans, their TRAITORS to our Country. They no longer have rights under the protection of our Country. Their goal is to KILL AMERICANS AND TO BRING DOWN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. And there are those who think this is wrong to protect our Country and it's people from these fanatics. I think not. Have we committed Drone attacks in the USA? No. These people have gone over to the Taliban and are our enemy and live in their Countries. Like any other enemy, whether American or not, You need to be dealt with as a traitor and no longer as an American. I fully support the Presidents decision on this matter.

The debt and the deficit are the last issues Obama wants to talk about, which is why we are hearing about immigration and gun control. Obama has no interest in any actual spending cuts other then military, and even then not to reduce the deficit but to promote other liberal agenda items. With all the talk from Obama about a balanced approach to our debt and deficit problem, where is the Democrats proposal? There has been no Democrat proposal of any kind since Obama took office promising to cut the annual deficit in half by the end of his first term. All these promises to cut spending next Tuesday for some tax increase today never materialize. Democrats have been playing that game for decades. We need the sequester to kick in as the best hope for the country, as we can no longer allow Obama and the Democrats to kick the can down the road.

All this hullabaloo about Drones targeting Americans is redicules. These "PEOPLE" are no longer Americans, their TRAITORS to our Country. They no longer have rights under the protection of our Country. Their goal is to KILL AMERICANS AND TO BRING DOWN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. And there are those who think this is wrong to protect our Country and it's people from these fanatics. I think not. Have we committed Drone attacks in the USA? No. These people have gone over to the Taliban and are our enemy and live in their Countries. Like any other enemy, whether American or not, You need to be dealt with as a traitor and no longer as an American. I fully support the Presidents decision on this matter.

Here's an excellent article on corporate welfare linked below. If Republicans are insisting on cuts, that would be the perfect place to start.

An excerpt:

Congress doesn’t cut corporate welfare because the relationships and special access that companies cultivate in Washington -- or as economists call it, the rent-seekers -- are part of the quid-pro-quo between companies needing favors and lawmakers needing campaign contributions. The givers and takers transcend ideology and geography. The favors often grow out of backroom deals. As such, they are the hardest form of government spending to reverse -- unlike, say, a payroll tax cut or an extension of unemployment benefits, which mostly benefit people without Washington connections.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-04/corporate-welfare-is-target-rich-environment-for-savings.html

Dear Joe in All BaaaBaaaBaaa ny

BCWC - Simply Brilliant. How in Gawd Almighty did you find that clip - it is bookmarked and I'm still crying with laughter.

Damn Bubblegum. Typical Newsvine efficiency.

David -- Well said!

Rick -- BS. Democrats have a plan to cut spending and raise revenue. It's coming.

As we wrote yesterday, the public -- like it did in the Bush years -- is content to go after the bad guys, regardless of concerns about a slippery slope. And here is a reason why this drone story might not extend beyond the Brennan hearings: The political opposition has been mostly quiet

This is because it's not a republican vs. democrat issue. The issue is...should be between the people and the state. Until more people speak up about the use of drones and assassinations without any due process on U.S. citizens, the issue will not see any political opposition.

Please, please, please. If you did not go to the "you tube" link in BCWC's post at 1.9....YOU MUST. Honest! It's the complete archive of the Albanian idiot's posts. Experience the real meaning of HAHAHAHAHA!

I thought this was a two part deal? Spending cuts and increased revenue? I see the increased revenue, where are the cuts? Hell, where are the proposals?

Obama to tap female CEO

Really?

The debt and the deficit are the last issues Obama wants to talk about,

Rick prefers a life of simplicity, where only one topic at a time can be considered, and that topic is debt/deficit (one in the same for ole Ricky). Tis rather like like the mind set of he and his fellow GOPers back the Bush years that could only contemplate one issue .. that of chasing down non-existent weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Backhouse - IF you want to live in a safe and peaceful world, move out of a Democratic controlled city, like Chicago. Democratic policies of dependency our killing these people. My family moved out of the south side of Chicago in the 70's, after the democratic plague was moving outward from the city. My Dad was smart enough to know that is going to get worse, so we moved to Republican Indiana. Nice and safe we can leave our doors unlocked people with guns are responsible. So keep in mind that all Obama is doing is pandering, nothing of substance will come out of this. Why dosen't Obama start with Chicago, the WORSE gun murder city in the Western Hemispere, HIS HOMETOWN! WHY?

Really?

Ok Dingle .. I noticed that too, but was going to let it slide.

Honest! It's the complete archive of the Albanian idiot's posts

That one gets the "gold" medal for the most "hillaryious" post of the week!

*double* BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Dont_carry_it_all says "Rick -- BS. Democrats have a plan to cut spending and raise revenue. It's coming."

Yeah we know, we have been hearing that line for decades. It has been over 40 years since a Democrat controlled congress has put forth a balanced federal budget. Which hardly makes Democrats the party of fiscal responsibility. If, and it is a big if, Democrats actually put forth a plan this year in the Senate, it will be nothing but more Washington accounting gimmicks. There will be no spending cuts, just reductions in future spending increases that take place a decade from now. Democrats are the big government, big spending, high taxes party of the people. At least those wealthy enough to be able to live through their idea of Washington.

So lets talk about gun control or immigration like RedDevPs suggests is multitasking, then we will be discussing more issues that Obama's plans solve nothing. Obama has failed miserably on the debt, deficit, and the economy so time to move on to another solve nothing issue.

" Obama has no interest in any actual spending cuts other then military,"

Rick numbers, you say this like it is a bad thing? Protect an over bloated military budget and let a baby go hungry, is that the republican plan?

Regarding drones again:

But we’re not seeing that from the GOP, at least not yet. The scrutiny so far is coming from the left and the news media, and that’s it. We’re really surprised at the lack of outrage from Congress so far. Why aren’t more members of Congress upset that a second branch of government doesn’t have any oversight over this executive branch program?

For those who are staunch supporters of Obama, does this statement by NBC News, clearly a left leaning organization, give any more credibility to the concerns many people have about this?

The issue of civil liberties was a reason I originally supported D. Kucinnich in 2008, knowing full well he had no chance. Any true progressive would be afraid of this new edict, no true progressive should try to explain or justify it.

God forbid, would you all give a president mitt romney a pass on drone strikes against Americans?

All I've hear is how the left trusts Obama to make the correct decisions. All I hear is how these matters are best left to the CIA and the NSA on determining who is an iminient threat. I'm sorry you will trust the same guys who missed 911, the ones who were wrong or flipped the facts on Iraq and WMD's? You will trust those guys? Not me.

Obama should not have this discretion and power, no President should. He is part of the executive branch not the judicial. This can become more than a slippery slope it can become a water plume amusement park ride.

RedDevPS

Ok Dingle .. I noticed that too, but was going to let it slide.

Clearly you have a more refined sense of humor than I do. :)

BCWC -- Thanks for the laughs this morning! Very funny stuff! I think that should be posted daily, right below Joey's daily HAHAHAHAHAHAHA post.

Rick -- Are you calling for austerity measures? You do know that would not be wise. It very well could put us in a Great Depression.

It is pretty obvious there will be no saving us from the cliff. Wouldn't it be prudent to just admit that to give the business sector some sort of certainty on what is going to happen? Whether it be for better or worse...the business will know one way or another which direction they will have to go. Save and wait or spend and build. Uncertainly leads to less investment, period, whether we go off the cliff or not.

Wow - Indiana sure sounds safe. That must be Geo on the clip 'splaining how safe he feels.

Indiana Murder of Five: Neighbors Unsure if Suspect on Loose
http://abcnews.go.com/News/killed-indiana-police-searching-suspect/story?id=14609662

The World According to Liberals - Waterboarding = Bad. Killing American Citizens with Drones = OK. Lunatic kills mom and 26 people guns are bad. Liberal policies, abortion kills 55 million unborn children = OK. How smart are you liberals?

Clearly you have a more refined sense of humor than I do. :)

I don't about that dingle - anyone that uses the handle DingleB clearly has a refined and very wicked sense of humor. And who says the Brits own dry wit.

Backhouse, wonderful post! Great JFK quote. We should not be a nation afraid to try. If we are to be "exceptional", then it requires the courage to "regulate" that "militia" the Constitution allows and regulate it nationally. We must act by taking steps to reduce the gun violence numbers; and to the degree possible, prevent massacres.

As I posted yesterday, I have mixed feelings about Drones; about the killings for many reasons but I also do not receive the daily intelligence briefings which would probably scare the bejeebers out of all of us. President Obama is a man of great integrity, he does not make the decisions easily. I doubt Presidents Bush or Clinton would have done any differently and they, too, would have not made such decisions lightly.

The Drone problem for Congress is perhaps of Congress's own making. They are briefed on programs such as this, they receive intelligence briefings as well. They knew Drones were being used to do what Isikoff reported, and they knew the rationale behind it. Congress knew it existed, they knew that Anwar Al??? was an American citizen who joined Al Qaeda to cause harm to the USA; he was behind the Ft Hood killings as well as the underwear bomber attempt.

So the question for Congress is why only now do they demand answers. They could easily have demanded testimony one, two, three, four, five years ago. I have no problem with Senators asking tough questions; no doubt democrats will at least be respectful when doing so. We all would like more information; we do need answers but shouldn't Congress have been demanding them and establishing parameters and oversight when Drones hit the scene instead of waiting until now.

As for the GOP's Drone problem, how do they oppose their own "War on Terror" to kill, capture and decimate Al Qaeda? The GOP, after all, would like nothing better than to bomb Iran, North Korea, and land in Syria ASAP; drones are part of the equation.

Even after 4 full years as President Mr. Obama remains unwilling to bite the bullet and put in place meaningful spending cuts (instead of slight cuts in the rate of increase in spending) for fear of pissing off the handout crowd. Best to punt again, right Mr. Obama? Poor Mr. Obama, he can't bring it upon himself to cut spending.

The following is what Obama said in his previous speeches before Congress. Obviously he didn't mean a word of it, otherwise he would not be submitting budgets to Congress that call for continued massive deficit spending and the creation of a $26 Trillion debt, while punting again and again on meaningful spending cuts and moving towards a balanced budget.

To kick these problems down the road for another four years or another eight years would be to continue the same irresponsibility that led us to this point. That's not why I ran for this office. I didn't come here to pass on our problems to the next President or the next generation

We are living with a legacy of deficit spending that began almost a decade ago. And in the wake of the financial crisis, some of that was necessary to keep credit flowing, save jobs, and put money in people's pockets.

But now that the worst of the recession is over, we have to confront the fact that our government spends more than it takes in. That is not sustainable. Every day, families sacrifice to live within their means. They deserve a government that does the same.

Now, even after paying for what we spent on my watch{cough, cough}, we will still face the massive deficit we had when I took office. More importantly, the cost of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security will continue to skyrocket. That's why I've called for a bipartisan, Fiscal Commission, modeled on a proposal by Republican Judd Gregg and Democrat Kent Conrad. This can't be one of those Washington gimmicks that lets us pretend we solved a problem. The Commission will have to provide a specific set of solutions by a certain deadline

Where are those proposed spending cuts, Mr.Obama? For once, will you stick your neck out and lead instead of being a petty sniper from the WH.

geo-1957883 - If you haven't noticed both side purposely pit us against each other. Look at some of the most heated issues.

Death = Repub, kill convicts, save babies. Dems, save convicts, kill babies.

Government = Repub, small government but wants to micromanage by religion. Dems, freedom for everyone but must be reliant on the government.

And it goes on like this...

This is just to funny, it seems when an Republican is President the debt is never a problem !!!

The Republicans are officially the party of Stupid !!!

RedDevBS - Had to go back 2 years? How long do you think I have to go back in Chicago? Yep, that was long enough 3 more dead!

BCWC, it is spelled FRIST.

Anyone notice that the RWNJs are gleefully jumping all over the drones controversy despite the fact that the story was first announced by Rachel Maddow, the woman that is on the top of the wingnut enemies list on MSCNBC, the TV network that wingnuts loath above all others? Their hatred for Obama apparently trumps their hatred for all their other liberal boogymen and women.

My own opinion of the drone controversy is that I don't see any problem with killing anyone, whether an American citizen or not, who is a sworn leader of Al Qaeda, which declared war on the US and vows to kill as many Americans as it can. However, I do have a problem with the Obama administration's secrecy and the high number of innocent civilians that are being killed in some of the drone strikes. Congress needs to keep the heat on Obama about those things.

Rick you do know President Clinton left Cheney/Bush with a $250 billion dollar surplus, which Cheney Bush promptly turned into a $400 billion dollar deficit . If you honestly look a the real facts of history you will find it is the republicans who are the " big government, big spending, high taxes party of the people". Go back and look at Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II, they all ran up large deficits that a Democrat (President Clinton for Reagan and Bush I) and (President Obama for Bush II) had to come in and lean up the mess the republicans left. I know you won't look honestly at the facts because that's not what you want to hear. You either know the true facts and are lying, or you are so uneducated you just accept anything the republicans tell you. Go back and look at history Rick and don't just except what someone tells you.

So geo, you live in the country, and the city is different. Apples to oranges in case you haven't noticed. Bottom line it is guns, in the country or in the city makes no difference as you are just as dead.

The Bush hating liberal Obama supporters were/are all disgusted and indignant because they feel Bush conducted an illegal war against Saddam. Where are they now that Mr. Obama is hiding behind very faulty legal reasoning to justify the indiscriminate killing of American citizens and others, with or without a declaration of war? Notably, Mr. Obama has repeatedly referred to various terrorist acts as "criminal" acts and that the perpetrators will be "brought to justice". Apparently that "justice" includes summary execution by team Obama without any legal process whatsoever and based upon the flimsiest of reasons (but never to be disclosed) one can imagine. Go ahead and cry about water boarding all you want, but the truth of the matter is that summary execution is far worse in every conceivable way. Is this the hope and change you Obama supporters were looking for?

This is because it's not a republican vs. democrat issue. The issue is...should be between the people and the state. Until more people speak up about the use of drones and assassinations without any due process on U.S. citizens, the issue will not see any political opposition.

Okay Dingle - here is your berry for the day. You and I are on opposing sides of the political spectrum. But on this, you stated it well. I do have concerns about this power taken by the presidency. That being said, I trust Obama to use this power with good intention. My concern is a future president abusing the power.

KingK

Even after 4 full years as President Mr. Obama remains unwilling to bite the bullet and put in place meaningful spending cuts (instead of slight cuts in the rate of increase in spending) for fear of pissing off the handout crowd.

You're spewing total crap. The deficit has decreased dramatically relative to what it was at the height of the Bush Recession. Repeating those lies doesn't make them true. According to the CBO, the deficit has decreased to 845 billion dollars down from the trillion-plus deficit in 2009.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/02/deficit-obsession-has-hurt-the-recovery-cbo.php?ref=fpb

Sorry. The double post gremlin strikes again. GEEEZ.

KingK -- Out of curiosity, how would you fix things?

The latest CBO report shows the deficit declining and debt rising. Democrats understand the Debt must be addressed. The difference between the two parties is the where, when and how to do that.

Houston

For the last 4 years the deficit has been running at a record setting pace of approx $1.3 trillion per year, while contributing to blow up the national debt to $16 Trillion. Obama's last proposed budget, shot down by the Dems in the Senate, called for continued deficit spending leading to a national debt of nearly $26 Trillion. If you want me to post the chart from Obama's proposed budget I will.

Is the drone thing the new birther movement? I think so, if it was W. or even Romney we would be ok with killing our enemies. It just seems like to me the republicans have to have something to whine about. As much as they hate Obama he is doing a great job and if the tea bags in congress would have cooperated even a little bit, much of our problems would be solved. But instead it is about taking from the poor so the rich bitches can have more money to stash off shore so they don't have to pay their fair share to enjoy The guy that killed the bus driver and took the boy hostage didn't get much of a trial either. But I don't hear much of stink about that. If I did I would have the same answer, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime and that includes loss of life, when necessary for the safety and well being of others.

David Walker, excellent post; you nailed it! BCWC, perfectly, outrageously funny!

Conservative posters whining about where the spending cuts are should be asking Speaker Boehner and the GOPTPers that question because it was the GOPTP which voted NAY on the grand bargain of $4 trillion in spending cuts in 2011; voted them down another grand bargain in 2012; and then tucked their tails during the recent fiscal cliff negotiations and again turned down the grand bargain and simply did the revenue increase side. I suggest that IF conservative posters are serious about those spending cuts, then contact the GOPTPers. Otherwise, it will be assumed that (like so many other things) conservatives only want to make noise, yell, moan and groan about it rather than find a solution or demand their own party come to the table and find common ground. It cannot be all the GOPTPs way or no way....which is why they always vote NAY on grand bargains. You see, the GOPTP really isn't any more serious about spending cuts than the conservative posters here.

Geo - just for you!!

4-year-old boy's murder stuns Indiana community
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-08/Indiana-teen-toddler-killed/54830556/1

RedDevPS

My concern is a future president abusing the power.

That is my concern as well. I honestly don't think President Obama is going to all of a sudden declare the Tea Party a terrorist organization and start blowing them away with drones, but Obama is setting precedent for the increased powers of assassination by the executive branch. My thought is that if an American citizen is going to be targeted, the executive branch should at the very least be required to go through the de-naturalization process to revoke citizenship from the targeted person. This would add a level of judicial oversight to the process.

Johntho - I know the people here with guns and how they respect them. These are the people who Obama is targeting. He can not target the inner-city thugs because they do not play by the rules. Why has Obama not been to Chicago to talk about the biggest gun problem in the Western Hemisphere? Why has he not said a word about the poor girl who attended his inaugural, shot dead by thugs who will not abide by any of his pandering laws he will let somebody else come up with! All this is a diversion of the economy, plain and simple.

More quotes from Obama that were never followed up with action on his part. His whole term in office has been lip service followed up with the exact opposite of what he says.

Now, I know that some in my own party will argue that we can't address the deficit or freeze government spending when so many are still hurting. And I agree -- which is why this freeze won't take effect until next year -- (laughter) -- when the economy is stronger. That's how budgeting works. (Laughter and applause.) But understand –- understand if we don't take meaningful steps to rein in our debt, it could damage our markets, increase the cost of borrowing, and jeopardize our recovery -– all of which would have an even worse effect on our job growth and family incomes.

2011 So tonight, I'm asking Democrats and Republicans to simplify the system. Get rid of the loopholes. Level the playing field. And use the savings to lower the corporate tax rate for the first time in 25 years – without adding to our deficit.

We are living with a legacy of deficit-spending that began almost a decade ago. And in the wake of the financial crisis, some of that was necessary to keep credit flowing, save jobs, and put money in people's pockets. But now that the worst of the recession is over, we have to confront the fact that our government spends more than it takes in. That is not sustainable. Every day, families sacrifice to live within their means. They deserve a government that does the same.

KingK

For the last 4 years the deficit has been running at a record setting pace of approx $1.3 trillion per year, while contributing to blow up the national debt to $16 Trillion

The CBO says the budget deficit for last year was $845 billion, down from $1.4 trillion in 2009. That's a 40% drop in three years. You can deny reality all you want, but that doesn't make your claims true. It only makes you delusional.

My concern is a future president abusing the power.

Yes Reddev, and what is to keep a future president from abusing the power? Take Obama out of it, look two, three, five, ten terms in the future. Can this be used by a capricious or vindicative President or executive group to deal with certain groups? For example could Greenpeace activists (ecoterrrorists in the future POTUS eye) or groups like the ACLU (communists in the future POTUS eye) be branded as an imminent threat? Could a WTO protester or Occupier be labeled an insurrectionist for practicing their freedom of speech? In the here and now what about collateral damage?

I am not a conspiracy type, doomsday wacko or anything but this is not good. For one thing the language for imminient threat needs to be cleared up.

edit - Dingle, I see your post came up while I was composing mine. Agree.

Here it is.

THE OBAMA MASSIVE DEBT PLAN!!!

Straight from Mr. Obama's fourth proposed budget. Here is the debt he is proposing to foist on US, our kids and grandchildren to go along with his big government as the center of the universe agenda.:

Table S–15. Federal Government Financing and Debt—Continued(Dollars amounts in billions)Actual 2011 Estimate 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020021 2022

Debt Outstanding, End of Year: Gross Federal debt:Debt issued by Treasury .................................................... 14,737 16,323 17,520 18,471 19,398 20,363 21,298 22,218 23,125 24,051 24,984 25,918

Debt issued by other agencies ........................................... 27 28 28 29 29 28 28 27 27 26 24 22 Total,

gross Federal debt .............................................. 14,764 16,351 17,548 18,500 19,427 20,392 21,326 22,245 23,152 24,077 25,008 25,940

Almost $26 Trillion in debt proposed /projected by Mr. Obama. UNSUSTAINABLE! And we all know that in actual practice it will turn out to be a lot higher. And on July 16, on Morning Joe,Mr. Obama's spokesperson, Rep. Jim Clyburn(D), admitted that the Obama plan necessarily will require middle class tax hikes in the years going forward after the election, in order to pay for the deficit spending and debt laden Obama plan. Which is why Mr. Obama only proposed a ONE YEAR extension of the Bush era middle class tax rates.

BTW, how is that jobs counsel doing, did they come up with a plan yet? LOL

RedDevBS - Thanks for proving my point on how democratic policies destroy African-American youth in the inner-city!

Yellowdog -- I think it's safe to say many of us have concerns here. Perhaps this will prompt Congress to do something as well. For well over a decade they've been either absent or reticent on many issues.

C'mon KingK - waiting for your response. Tell us your solution to the budget woes.

geo-1957883

Why has Obama not been to Chicago to talk about the biggest gun problem in the Western Hemisphere? Why has he not said a word about the poor girl who attended his inaugral, shot dead by thugs who will not abide by any of his pandering laws he will let somebody else come up with!

http://newsone.com/2174996/white-house-hadiya-pendleton/

“The president and first lady’s thoughts and prayers are with the family of Hadiya Pendleton,” White House spokesman Jay Carney said Wednesday.

So much for your phony outrage over the death of a girl you care nothing about except as something to justify your all-consuming hatred of the president.

King K, Rick--here's some facts to chew.

Debt increase: Carter 42%; Reagan 189%; Bush 41, 55%; Clinton, 39%; Bush 43, 89%. That would be republican presidents raised the debt 333% while democrats raised it 81%. Now which party is it that spends the most without paying for what they buy? Clinton left Bush 43 budget surpluses for his last 3 years in office; we were on target to pay off the debt by the year 2016. Bush 43 blew it all up with the help of his 6 years with GOP total control of the executive and legislative branches. Now the GOP whines about the debt....which they voted YEA to build. Give it a rest.

Annualized growth of federal spending: Reagan, 13.9%; Bush 41, 5.4%; Clinton, 7.1%; Bush 43, 15.9%; and wait for it, Obama 1.4% during his first term--the lowest growth of federal spending in over 30 years.

While I don't disagree with those expressing concern about presidential powers using Drones, the question should be: why has Congress sat back for the last 6-8 years without asking questions?

Johntho - The kidnapper had already committed a crime he was holding a little boy hostage. For days he was talked to, pleaded with to surrender. He chose not to. The police, SWAT etc. went in and took him out. Good for them.

The drone situation is a totally different animal. Information is gathered on a person who happens to be American, he has made incendiary remarks, has a violent ideology. What triggers the kill strike? Of the three triggers the memo details; the imminient threat information seems sparse. This is not 24 and Jack Bauer doesn't know the whole plan, by killing one hundreds will be saved.

I have no problem going after OBL types, but in the real world mistakes will be made. Yes war decisions and the courts are different, but our judicial system has a high threshold for conviction and killing someone. The bar is set high to allow a guilty person to go free rather than an innocent die. Rant off.

ssmithlg..............Interesting comments on the free phones, but either you are ignorant of the fact that this was a program initiated by Ronald Reagan or you are intentionally deceitful. So which is it, are you ignorant of the facts or are you intentionally trying to post erroneous information ?

Why do you refer to it as an ObamaPhone when the whole program was signed into effect by Ronald Reagan ?

And geo, any one of those people have the capability of shooting and killing you, in the city or out, or somebody else because they got a hair caught crosswise in their ass. Its the guns stupid, or rather the easy access to guns. The so called thugs in Chicago come to Indiana to get their guns because of the easy access. Why, try to shift the blame for Chicago to Obama, I can tell you why, you are a hater and just the person that probably shouldn't own a gun.

Go ahead try and justify it, yellow dog, either way there was no trial.

"I am not a conspiracy type, doomsday wacko or anything but this is not good. For one thing the language for imminient threat needs to be cleared up."

Could have fooled me.

KingK

Here it is.

Here it is. More evidence of your Obama Derangement Syndrome.

The deficit is going down, and it would go down faster if the Republicans weren't deliberately impeding the recovery with the endless string of fiscal crises they manufacture. The US doesn't have a deficit crisis, it has an unemployment crisis that should be addressed with MORE spending, not less. More people working and at higher wages means more income tax to the government and lower deficits eventually. The Republicans' austerity plan has been tried in Great Britain, and has produced a double-dip recession there. The same thing will happen here if they get their way.

"The kidnapper had already committed a crime he was holding a little boy hostage. For days he was talked to, pleaded with to surrender. He chose not to. The police, SWAT etc. went in and took him out. Good for them."

Yellowdog, do we have to wait for another 9/11 or Benghazi to take out the bad guys? American citizens or not they chose the lifestyle that puts us and them in danger. Its called war, and a drone strike is justified in my opinion. Its not like we can go into Syria or Lebanon and arrest them. It is a miltary operation not a civilian one.

Houston

You are the one that needs to brush up on facts and stop lying. The $845 figure you are talking about is a projected figure by the CBO for this year (2013) not the actual figure for last year. But you don't have to take my word for it go to the CBO site or read Huff Po. The deficit last year, 2012, was $1.1 Trillion. Mind you the $845 figure is merely a projection. They are frequently wrong and often underestimate. You need to stop your blind following and get your facts straight.

Budget Deficit To Drop Below $1 Trillion in 2013: CBO

By ANDREW TAYLOR, STEPHEN OHLEMACHER and RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR 02/05/13 03:59 PM ET EST

WASHINGTON -- The federal budget deficit will drop below $1 trillion for the first time in President Barack Obama's tenure in office, a new report said Tuesday.

The Congressional Budget Office analysis said the government will run a $845 billion deficit this year, a modest improvement compared to last year's $1.1 trillion shortfall but still enough red ink to require the government to borrow 24 cents of every dollar it spends.

Brave new world of Drones and Drone strikes very dangerous. Like any new technology, it will quickly spread around the world and although ours are controlled by a military satellite network, there are other ways to communicate with these things. What will be the reaction when a foreign government gets in the act and "takes out" one of their citizens on US soil? Drones are essentially upscale radio control model airplanes. It is not far fetched to think that some backyard hobbyist will soon make one into a lethal weapon, much less a country like Iran or North Korea.

KingK -- All wind and no sails? Waiting..... You too Rick?

My thought is that if an American citizen is going to be targeted, the executive branch should at the very least be required to go through the de-naturalization process to revoke citizenship from the targeted person.

Dingle - I agree - and would counter that de-naturalization must be handled by some other separate panel, aside from the executive branch. It has always bothered me that FDR was able to execute an executive order that interred West Coast Americans (Japanese) into camps at the onset of WWII. As revolting as I find Tea Party members, they are still Americans and deserve the same rights I enjoy.

My solution is to cut spending, preferably across the board (including cutting all foreign aid), and raise taxes. The revenues from the tax increases are to be used to pay down the debt. The plan would have a 10 year focus to balance the budget. Spending would need to match revenues under a balanced budget amendment which will take effect at the end of the 10 year period. No legalization of 11 million illegals, but modernize the immigration process to speed up visa and the process to become a citizen. Include compulsory military service or civil service, for those unable to serve in the military, for all those seeking to become US citizens. New citizens will not be eligible for welfare, etc.. for a 10 year period. Stop unfair trade practices of the Chinese and others. Of course, this is just an outline.

Johntho - Don't own a gun, don't like guns. But unlike you, I am smart enough to understand how this country was founded. Our framers thought enough of guns to put it 2nd in the Constitution. You can tell me that the policies Obama was raised on in Chicago have nothing to do on how he governs. You are stupider then you write! Democrats in Chicago ARE responsible for the gun murders through thier policies of dependency and hopelessness. Yes I hate, I hate what Democrats do to once nice neighborhoods, I hate how Democrats destroy an entire race of people. Hatred that is well earned. Houston - Having someone else talk for you on a subject like this is disturbing. So Obama still has NOT said anything on the subect! Maybe because he has nothing to gain. The Democrats have already enslaved thier vote and this is what they get, death and destruction, how fitting! Why won't the Democrats own up to thier FAILED leadership?

but unlike you I am smart enough to understand how this country was founded.

Oh great, another right wing nut job trying to sell us on the idea that America was founded on guns and the Christian God.

Johntho

Is the drone thing the new birther movement? I think so, if it was W. or even Romney we would be ok with killing our enemies. It just seems like to me the republicans have to have something to whine about.

Actually, most of the outrage is coming from the left - not the GOP...

RedDevBS - It wasn't? Please tell us how and why America was founded?

KingK -- First, balancing the budget in a ten year time frame would require austerity measures. Look how that's working out in places like Ireland and Spain. Next, remember, budgets are not set in stone. New Congress', new budgets.

I understand it's hard for some people to wrap their head around the fact that foreign aid is sometimes used as leverage. Would you take that power out of our hands?

On immigration. Look to history and what the founding fathers did. Here's an interesting article that touches on that. Also keep in mind 40% of the 11 million number is attributed to those here on expired visas.

We are agreement on the unfair trade practices.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/should-illegal-immigrants-become-citizens-lets-ask-the-founding-fathers/2013/02/01/ec3cca66-6bba-11e2-bd36-c0fe61a205f6_story.html

BCWC, thanks for laughs this morning!

I wonder though, which Albanian Joe? Why does he have 2 accounts?? ;-)

Joe in Albany date joined May 7, 2010
http://first-thoughts-kicking-ass.newsvine.com/

Joe in Albany-1902257 date joined Jun 19, 2010
http://joeinalbany.newsvine.com/

Member Since: 6/2010

Backhouse -

Dear Sir the Largest Killing of Children in US history was committed with explosives. Unless you lock up all the crazy people. Crazy people are going to do crazy things.

Have you noticed Al Quieda prefers NOT to use guns.. they dont kill enough for them. If you want to make the world a safer place Ban Gas.

A ) it is used by the killer to get where their going. Walking is a great way to control peoples movement.

B) its the most readily available explosive substance ON EARTH. I can spend 100 dollars around the corner and have enough explosive power to LEVEL a building.

Guns don't kill people, People use Guns, rocks , a Knife, stick, car, drugs, rope. dynamite, Fertilizer (ok City), 747's , Gasoline, etc .. TO KILL PEOPLE.

KingK -- BTW. Isn't it much more productive to talk about solutions instead of ranting?

Confronted with the actual facts, instead of his made up bs, Houston runs away.

KingK:

The deficit last year, 2012, was $1.1 Trillion. Mind you the $845 figure is merely a projection.

That's 300 billion dollars less than 2009, the last of G. W. Bush's budgets. So quit throwing out your crap about Obama's spending. There is NO deficit crisis. There is an unemployment crisis.

KingK

Confronted with the actual facts, instead of his made up bs, Houston runs away.

I didn't run anywhere. But it does get tiresome pointing out your lies, which aren't even original. You're just mindlessly and gullibly repeating the garbage you've heard from some far-right faux news source.

Don't carry

The problem is that idiots like Houston can't even get the basic facts straight. You can't talk about solutions, which I have always been willing to do, until you have a grasp on actual reality. Idiots like Houston deal in sound bites which they can't even get right when they repeat them. My point is, and has been, that while Mr. Obama seemingly talks a good game, when it comes to actually doing and leading his actions a far from the rhetoric.

Of course budgets change over time. But all budget proposals are based on a 10 year period. Under the Obama budget proposals (which he has not even been able to sell to his own party) we never even go in the direction of a balanced budget. Just continued deficit spending and debt building.

I put out the outline of a plan, where is yours? And more importantly, where is the Senate plan and the Obama plan?

Houston --

There is an unemployment crisis.

Agreed. Wonder what KingK's answer to that crisis is? We see what austerity does to the unemployment numbers.

One of the most irksome things about the bogus deficit crisis is that the REAL crisis that will occur in 10 years or so will be due to the combination of Bush's disastrous tax cuts and the retirement of baby boomers. Where were all the deficits scolds when Bush was irresponsibly cutting taxes? It was as well-known back in 2003 that the baby boomers would be retiring back then as it is now. What did the deficit scolds expect? That people would be sent to the Soylent Green factory when they turned 65?

There is one purpose and one purpose only behind the Bush tax cuts in the last decade and the phony deficit hysteria in this decade: To kill Medicare, a program that conservatives have lusted to destroy since the days that Ronnie Raygun was the anti-Medicare mouthpiece who warned that Medicare would lead to loss of freedom (read loss of corporate profits).

Houston

Huff Po is a left leaning news source, which is why i cited it. And the CBO is not a far right news source. You, on the other hand have cited no source to back your drivel. Post one source that says the 2012 budget deficit was $845 billion. Don't hold you breath while you are looking for it, because it doesn't exist.

BCWC . . .

Loved it! Thanks for the giggles. I do love your sense of humor and have always enjoyed your YouTube links!

Have a great day!

KingK

My point is, and has been, that while Mr. Obama seemingly talks a good game, when it comes to actually doing and leading his actions a far from the rhetoric.

The only point you have is the one on the top of your head. You're an idiot who's just mindlessly mouthing lies that you've been fed. Obama has DECREASED the budget deficit over his first term in office.

KingK

Of course budgets change over time. But all budget proposals are based on a 10 year period. Under the Obama budget proposals (which he has not even been able to sell to his own party) we never even go in the direction of a balanced budget. Just continued deficit spending and debt building.

You're just lying again. The deficit is DECREASING, which is certainly going in the direction of a balanced budget.

KingK

Huff Po is a left leaning news source, which is why i cited it. And the CBO is not a far right news source. You, on the other hand have cited no source to back your drivel. Post one source that says the 2012 budget deficit was $845 billion. Don't hold you breath while you are looking for it, because it doesn't exist.

I was wrong about the 845 billion being for last year. It is the projection for this year. But last year's deficit was 300 billion lower than the deficit Obama inherited from Bush, so it doesn't change the fact that you just brainlessly repeated lies you've heard from far right "news" media about Obama doing nothing to address the deficit.

KingK -- If discussion is what you want then say so. Houston has sound ideas as well. Anyway, things are still a bit shaky and until the ground is stabilized we proceed cautiously. Yes, I believe, as most Democrats do, that we have to address our fiscal problems. Again, where the disagreement comes in is the where, how and when. I think we'll get there this time though but it'll be messy. As these arguments come up in Congress and elsewhere I'd be happy to tell you what I agree with and don't agree with and why.

RedDevBS - It wasn't? Please tell us how and why America was founded?

Well Geo, in very simple terms, that even you can understand, a bunch of liberal/progressives got together and told that conservative King on the other side of the pond to go f&#k himself.

RedDevBS -- But how would you defend yourself with no guns?

Houston

First the deficit for 2012 was not inherited from Bush. Bush has been out of office since January 2012. None of the budgets proposed by Obama since then have called for any less spending. So they are now Obama deficits each year that he keeps it up. That is the reality. Bush is not forcing Obama to spend anything.Second, the $300 billion reduction was a result of spending cuts the House forced down Obama's throat as a result of the short term budget deals. Not as a result of anything Mr. Obama did.

Since you manned up in the face of facts about the deficit for 2012, now it is time to man up about the reason for the slight decrease you are now crowing about, which, btw, is a mere drop in the bucket.

Carry

So you have no plan and no ideas, but chide others about the lack of a plan. Is that you Barack?

Houston...so typical...you gave a half truth and accused King of the same thing you just did. Read the article and not just the first two lines...

Here I will do it for you......

The reports said "at an estimated $845 Billion , the 2013 imbalance would be the first deficit in five years below $1 trillion.......But that improvement will be merely temporary: in the next several years,an aging population will drive entitlement spending higher at the very same time rising interest rates increase the Government 's debt service costs, the CBO WARNED....

Then HOUSTON.....it goes on to say ...debt held by the public will be bigger by 2023 than in any year since 1951 and will be at 77 percent of GDP by 2023, far above the 40 year average of 39 percent of the GDP..Here I will translate this for you......This is not a situation and Economic Enviroment we should be working towards. This means the Presidents Plan is no good. This is what the CBO is telling you.....Houston....did you not read past the first two lines?

Houston.....Typical Left only gives you part of the story to advance their B.S

No matter how you want to spin it .......you are distorting the whole truth ....

Who cares about the slight and temporary decrease in the deficit(Why would you even be the slightest bit happy about it) ...If Obamas long term plans do not do anything about huge Debt in the Future....

People like you think this is a contest between Republican and Democrat.....The problems we are facing a much more complex than the contest you think this is.

The article you are referring to is a Turkey shoot for the Right. How do you even refer to it. The CBO is saying the President is not doing enough to cut spending....and you try to misuse it to show that he is doing the right thing with his spending. You tried to mislead this blog with your half truth...not relating the whole intentions of the article you were quoting.

Well said Mike

But partisan hacks like Houston could care less about the country. Their loyalty is to a party. No matter how destructive that may be.

Geo, I call barnyard bovine excrement on you. I do own guns, the framers didn't mean it is ok to shoot up a school full of kids with weapons that should only be used in war. The constitution wasn't written just for gun owners, it was written for all people. Yes you hate, unreasonable hate and stupidity. You embrace the idea's of a party that only cares about human life from conception to birth. Have a deep hate for anyone different then them and especially if they should have remained slaves. You are not of the republican party of Lincoln, you are of the republican party of stinking tea bags.

I so tired of the republicans blaming the democrats or democarts blaming republicans, its tine these elected buttheads get to work and stop driving this country into the hands, or should i say BANK of China and stop spending and take care of the budget, because washington is one step away frm BANKRUPTCY....

"Actually, most of the outrage is coming from the left - not the GOP"

Not what I see on these pages, Ron , what I see here is the unreasonable hate that the GOP has for Obama. You have to admit there is a track record to go by that isn't very good.

KingK -- I have lots of ideas. I called you out for ranting and was curious about what your solutions were.

Some of the things I advocate for are TAX REFORMS and infrastructure spending. Minor adjustments are needed long term for SS and we need to look at best practices around the world for answers to our healthcare problems. That would entail looking at the way healthcare is provided and all the various programs used to deliver it. I'd overhaul the regulations on business and Wall Street, streamline them and then institute broader laws that give room to prosecute those that do harm. Whether it be in the financial sector or to the environment. Perhaps with a tougher DO NO HARM clause they will be more cautious in the future.

KingK

Houston

First the deficit for 2012 was not inherited from Bush. Bush has been out of office since January 2012.

You mean 2009, which was Bush's last budget year and the biggest deficit in history thanks to the economic disaster Republican policies created.

the $300 billion reduction was a result of spending cuts the House forced down Obama's throat as a result of the short term budget deals. Not as a result of anything Mr. Obama did.

WRONG. Remember those Medicare cuts that Mitt Whatzisface attacked Obama for? Those cuts were planned by Obama, as are further deficit reductions that will result from "Obamacare."

Since you manned up in the face of facts about the deficit for 2012, now it is time to man up about the reason for the slight decrease you are now crowing about, which, btw, is a mere drop in the bucket.

When are YOU going to man up and admit what you claimed is a lie:

Even after 4 full years as President Mr. Obama remains unwilling to bite the bullet and put in place meaningful spending cuts (instead of slight cuts in the rate of increase in spending) for fear of pissing off the handout crowd.

The rate of spending has decreased under Obama after the initial stimulus spending that saved the US from the Bush Recession turning into the Bush Depression.

Geo muttered. "RedDevBS -- But how would you defend yourself with no guns?"

No one is asking for your or even my guns. What is needed is to take the military style weapons out of the general population and put them in the hands of people that need them for their work. The military and police. No civilian needs a gun with the capability of shooting 30-100 times as fast as one can pull the trigger, and with bump shooting it can be even faster. One more time because you seem to be so slow. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT TAKING ALL OF THE GUNS. NO ONE.

RedDevBS -- But how would you defend yourself with no guns?

Slingshots. It worked for David against Goliath, according to the Bible!!

mike-Pa

Houston...so typical...you gave a half truth and accused King of the same thing you just did. Read the article and not just the first two lines...

Here I will do it for you......

The reports said "at an estimated $845 Billion , the 2013 imbalance would be the first deficit in five years below $1 trillion.......But that improvement will be merely temporary: in the next several years,an aging population will drive entitlement spending higher at the very same time rising interest rates increase the Government 's debt service costs, the CBO WARNED....

And of course, you blame Obama for this even though this wouldn't have been the case had it not been for Bush's irresponsible tax cuts, his unfunded Medicare drug giveaway to the big pharmaceutical companies (the cost of which he lied about to Congress), the economic disaster he enabled Wall Street to get away with, and of course his wars that should have been paid for with tax increases.

The problem now is unemployment, not deficits. Deficit hysteria has been manufactured as part of the long-term Republican strategy to kill Medicare so that corporate middlemen can skim off big profits. If Republicans were serious about deficit reduction, they wouldn't oppose revenue increases kicking and screaming. They WANT the deficit to increase.

Houston ...Republican Policies ? Everybody that knows a little something about the Crash knows the Housing Bubble went back to Clinton and his Housing Strategy,....also everybody knows that Bush had a Democratic Senate and Congress his last two years in office.

Again ...how come you never bring those facts up? If you would like me to educate you about the Clinton Housing Strategy I would be more than happy to give the proof necessary. All you have to do is look up the Community RE-INVESTMENT ACT(If you even know what that is) I am sure you dont. If you do...then again you are distorting the truth again .. Did you not read my post....it debunks your Rant. It pretty much tells you .....Yes there is a Debt crisis.and it has to be handled now....not 10 years from now.

I think the Report from the CBO has more clout than your emotions. Yep...you know the article ...go ahead and read more than the two lines that you quoted from...Go ahead....Maybe you can come back and Rant on facts and not emotion.

Houston...everything is because of the Bush Tax Cuts? You believe that? Then why...did the President re-instate them for 99.5 percent of the American Public. They are now called the Obama Tax Cuts.....

By the way ...I didn't vote for Bush...I don't stick up for Bush....So please quit using Bush as your debate with me. I just state the truths about Bush and Obama...Bush may have been a bad President....it doesnt give Obama the excuse to be an awful one.

Don't_Carry, I see you have a plan, run for congress. You won't have one. Just a note, I agree with you on all your proposals especially on health care. There is no reason we are the most expensive health care system on earth and yet one of the worst. While Obamacares is a step in the right direction I really do agree we need to look to other countries and see what works and what don't. Another upgrade needs to be in education, we are falling behind in that too. Our military and our idea we have to be the cops of the world is costing us, not only in lives but in our future. We need to cut the military budget, we need to withdraw most of troops from over seas and we need to use them to guard our own borders. Yes, we must get control of our spending but Social Security and Medicare should be taken off the table period. Just the few tweaks that you suggest. Maybe lifting the cap on payroll withholding, that would extend the life of S.S. through the boomer years.

Mike PA, what you have proven is you have a close ear to right wing sights, and radio, you don't seem to care about the truth but why spread a lie. The truth is Clinton had nothing to do with the housing crisis. NOTHING. This is how it went down. Remember you heard it here not on your radio. When people bought houses they had jobs. They made payments and made them homes. Then Bush put a stop on the economy and as more and more people lost their jobs they also lost their homes, and then people like you come along and blame everything on a democrat which had nothing to do with the recession that Bush created.

Obama wants to know if anyone is up for another game of kick the can? The game is played like this, for a several month delay in the automatic cuts of the sequester, Obama will once again suggest some paltry cuts in future spending, and Republicans should agree to higher taxes today. Then in several months, Obama will want to play kick the can again, but this time Obama will want to boot the can even further down the road with more tax increases along with promises to consider looking at some more spending cuts at a time and place to be determined. Well this is nothing new, this is the way Democrats have always played kick the can. There are bills on the table to avoid sequester, just none from Obama or the Democrats. I guess Democrats were sure Republicans could be duped into another game of kick the can.

Johntho...you have absolutely no clue do you? You really do not have any Economic understanding . I dont even know if i should take the time to educate you. I will only do it if Houston comes in with a more pathetic post than yours on how the Housing Bubble collapsed. You just made my day....hahahaahahaaha

I voted for Clinton...it doesn't mean he wasn't at fault for the Housing Bubble....do you even know what that means?

Now if I decide to take the time to educate you...you have to promise to read the complete Post and not the the first two lines...ok? I will give you things to look up and verify that what I am telling you is the truth...Do you want the Housing Explanation or not. A lot people on here already know the explanation...apparently you do not.

Johntho -- You have some great ideas too. We need more people with open minds willing to look at best practices and ideas, especially when it comes to things such as healthcare and education. Agreed, we need to bring our troops home, with some exceptions, and I think with smart cuts in Defense spending, we can still have a strong military. Now if we could just get the Republicans on board. Ha!

everything is because of the Bush Tax Cuts?

Whether it's called Bush's tax cuts or Obama's would you agree that they took revenue off the table, thus changing the bottom line?

Move along folks....nothing new here.

Progressive agenda:

1. Tax
2. Spend
3. Redistribute
4. More regulations
5. No spending cut concessions
6. My way or the highway
7. No National Budget
8. No Debt Ceiling limit
9. Blame Bush the Republicans

Wait a minute....that was Mr. Obama agenda the first four years.

“One of the great founding principles of our country was that children would not be punished for the mistakes of their parents,” Cantor said,

I never realized we had a problem with anchor babies in the late 1700's. After all, women, slaves, and other minorities we never given citizenship back then. Who would have thought the founders were so concerned about children being punished for the mistakes of their parents.

But then, Cantor said nothing about the parents. That would be un-Republican to support parents. The radical Republican party couldn't care less about children, or their parents, except when they need to exploit them.

After their defeats last November, do Republicans modify their policies? Or their tone? NBC’s Mike O’Brien writes that most Republicans -- so far -- have opted for Door No. 2, deciding “that a more articulate re-statement of the party's long-held principles will suffice in their effort to attract new voters to the GOP.” And that’s probably to best way to view House Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s speech yesterday to the conservative American Enterprise Institute. With one exception (more on that below), Cantor’s address was mostly a repackaging of policies he and other Republicans have previously backed

Boy, that'll be a recipe for winning.

Don't carry it all, You seem to think that Johntho has good ideas. Last week he called me a facist who he would slap back to reality. If you want to defend someone who threatens to slap a women you go ahead. Not me.

The Consevative agenda:

1. Tax (only the middle class, and the poor, if we can)

2. Spend (only on tax cuts for the rich, large corporations, the military, and other corporate welfare)

3. Redistribute (to the rich)

4. Strip Regulations (so the rich and powerful can ride over all of us and become more rich).

5. Spending cuts (but only for the poor, the middle class, and entitlements, even though they were paid for)

6. My way, or we'll get a credit downgrade or threaten to shutdown the government, and then relent once the damage has been done

7. No National Budget (that will ever have a chance of passing, that's just a waste of time)

8. No Debt Ceiling (despite making it a unnecessary issue to rating agencies)

9. Blame Obama, the Democrats, and the media

10. Act like you care when you really don't

11. Drag your policies further right, then lose bad, and then say it's just a messaging problem

12. Nominate a moderate, make him change to a right-winger, lose big, and then say you need someone further to the right.

Stop the Canibals ...I think you get th most un educated post of the day.

I only have time to address a couple of your stupid post.

Hey ...lets start at post number one ..1. .The top 2 percent pay 40 percent of the tax Burden ...That is a Fact. 50 percent of the Country does not pay taxes ..that is a Fact. So i guess your first statement is completely False...but hey it makes you feel good to be mad ..go ahead.

2. I really have know idea what kind of blabber you are spewing ...most programs are geared towards dead beats like yourself

3 Redistribute to the Rich.....Please give one Example . The Rich are paying your tax burden. How can you take their taxes and redistribute it back to them?

Your list is so ridiculous ....It is not worth the time to respond any further.......

BTW ...The President has proposed two budgets...neither budget getting one single vote from a Democrat or Republican

lisa s -- How old are you? Take that up with John.

mike-sa- You wrote:

Redistribute to the Rich.....Please give one Example .

To answer 1, 2, and 3 in your post read my first post of the day. You might learn something.

This is flat out bad news when any President has the power to kill at will American citizens. As far as gun laws you cannot apply the same laws in rural areas as you can in urban areas. There are people who live in areas 1-2 hours from police assistance, they live where an animal may try to kill or maul a loved one, they may need 7 plus bullets just to defend themselves or others. We need to stop looking to the Government to solve our problems, our society is not perfect but it works well, we do not need a police state. Tougher gun laws do not stop criminals, create an atmosphere of prosperity, teach morals,values and common sense and we as a people will be better off. Bickering about out of touch politicians and elites, and the policies they ram down our throats does nothing, real change starts locally.

Mike,

Apparently you haven't been on these threads very often. You can see below:

Hey ...lets start at post number one ..1. .The top 2 percent pay 40 percent of the tax Burden ...That is a Fact. 50 percent of the Country does not pay taxes ..that is a Fact. So i guess your first statement is completely False...but hey it makes you feel good to be mad ..go ahead.

We all know how much federal tax the rich pay. What the radicals on the right never mention is that the rich take in the majority of all the income and have the majority of all the wealth in America too (well above 40%, so tell us the whole truth, moron). 50% of the people is wrong because they all still pay payroll taxes, R/E taxes, sales tax, etc. They do not pay INCOME tax because they are living entirely on SS, veterans benefits, fall under $20K in wages (Bush tax policy). In all, 1% are the freeloaders you are calling all 50% (that got Romney unelected saying what you just said).

2. I really have know idea what kind of blabber you are spewing ...most programs are geared towards dead beats like yourself

Sorry, i haven't taken a govt benefit in my life, but nice try deflecting blame. Heck, by your writing skills I would bet a month's pay that I make at least twice what you make.

3 Redistribute to the Rich.....Please give one Example . The Rich are paying your tax burden. How can you take their taxes and redistribute it back to them?

The same way the earned income tax credit works. It also gets redistributed back by giving military contracts (and other contracts to right-wing Republican supporters).

You are a joke. Keep it up though.......it's people like you that are going to keep Republicans out of office a long, long time.

Lisa, I don't particularly remember the instance but if I said you need to be "slapped back into reality" its probably because you posted some vile nonsense that only a right dinger would.

And Mike-PA, and all you got is right wing bovine excrement. You are the one that has no reality of how this country works nor how it worked. YOU are the one that didn't even consider that the recession started in 07 and Clinton left in 2000. Yet you blame him for the housing collapse. How f-ing stupid is that?

And one more thing, stupid, the rich (the top 2%) while paying 40% (your figures, probably not real) they also own 95% of the money and therefore ought to be paying 95% of the tax bill. But scumbags like you don't even consider you will never reach rich.

BTW, the president has proposed 4 budgets and it is not unusual for them to be rejected by congress despite all your hate for the setting president the budgets he offered, had spending cuts and new revenue. The democrats didn't like the deep spending cuts and the republicans rejected the new revenue.

Maybe it comes from touching yourself inappropriately, while listening to Rush Limbaugh, but somewhere your thinking is screwed.

Well said Stop, but it is hard to get through to the right wing size two hats that the very rich is not their friend. The biggest problem we face is a lack of revenue brought on when Reagan was president with tax cuts and even he finally raised taxes and then HW raised them some more and then W. tried supply side economics which has always failed. Recessions and depressions, brought to you by the Republican party since 1929.

Oh and Lisa, did you happen to look up the word fascist? You will see a lot of yourself in that definition.

Stop the Canibals...no your post is truly a stupid post. Look at what you wrote ...yes it looks like an Idiot wrote it....Are we talking about Corporation's that are given Tax breaks so they stay in the Cities and States they are currently in ? If that is the case ...You made a pretty broad statement. Are we talking about individual Rich people ...what? If you are talking about Big Business then do so. You spoke of Military Contracts coming back to support Right wing supporters...

Show me that policy ... Where was that passed in Congress to do that...or is that an opinion?

Yes I want to see where all Military contacts have to go back to Right Wing Supporters ...Please show me that bill. I want to see it.

"I make more money than you"........Grow up !

Johntho....I have stayed away from you because your stupidity does not even deserve response ...I am really afraid to show you how Clinton was the cause because I think your A.d.d will kick in and you will not read all of it ... I tell you what...if you are good boy I will embarrass you tomorrow with it...ok? Get a good nights sleep...let your anger go...and maybe all of your Dumb Ass thoughts will go with it. Tomorrow is another day. I will find you.... I promise.

Johntho, Maybe you should ask some of the regular posters if I am a right dinger?

Johntho - Had to go get my retarded cousin to help decipher your posts, and we can still not understand what the hell your taking about! You and RedDevBS have to be related.

If actual movement in peace talks were required before a Presidential visit to Israel, no President would ever have visited Israel by now. Either that, or there would be an actual treaty of peace between the State of Israel, the wanna be nation of the left bank of the Jordan, and the wanna end the nation of Israel group Hamas currently ruling the Gaza strip.

We know that the trip will be substantive, and not just a pandering to the American Jewish community, since Obama does not have to run for election. Either he is hoping to further the process of peace begun by Hillary Clinton, or he and Netanyahu are nailing down the plans to go to war with Iran. Either way, moving something very big along will definitely come out of the visit.

Maybe it will be both, with Syria being knocked off on the side, thus eliminating the source of the funds for Hamas.

To all you poor demlib whiners out there, what this whole article comes down to is that the Bozobama has been a colossal FAILURE in almost EVERY area other than piling up more debt or killing more people with drone strikes after whining about others doing the same. The Bozobama is still in way over his head and is the LEAST qualified person in any room he enters in DC. And non-working fools and deadbeats put him back in office after such a failed first term. It's sad to see the US so dumbed-down by some slick-talking failure, and our kids and grandkids will be paying for thjis fool's failures for a generation.

Stop the Canibals and Johnthro...time to get up ! Stop the Canibals where are you.. Lets talk taxes ..Fact check .org. Lets talk about how the Freelancers Union receives $340 mil in grants for Obama care

Lets talk about Pelosi and John Kerry trying to screw the tax man

Lets talk about Stimulus money supported and given the approval by the Obama Administration...to ship car making jobs overseas...... Lets talk about your incredibly stupid post.....Johnthro...did you take your ADD medicine...i will give you a lot to read about Clinton(even though I liked him and voted for him) and show you how he had a lot to contribute to the Housing Bubble....

Where is Obama's budget? He is breaking the law with its late submittal.

I didn't think Jonthro would be back...nor stop the Canibals.. I thought we were going to all get together so that I can back everything I told you with Fact check.org and other issues with Documentation. Whats wrong ....Did the facts get in the way of your emotions?

The Romney camp has stored the memory of that tape in the same closet they shoved George W. Bush. "If we don't talk about it, it never happened!"

Since it was Fehrstrom they were quoting, I was going with the etch-a-sketch comment. To me that personified Romney in a nutshell.

Yes but what does any of this have to do with the price of potato chips in China? Just in case you missed it, Obama won, and Obama is failing. So spend your time talking about some tape while Obama has the nation on the path toward financial collapse. Oh yeah that's right, everything is still Bush's fault. Liberals claim Obama is the smartest person to ever sit in the Oval Office, and yet not smart enough to solve the nations problems. But the blame and excuse game has worked well for Obama, just hasn't done much to help the country.

Republicans are doing everything in their power Sabotaging our Nation and throwing the middle class under the Bus for their 1% greedy friends, when is this going to end !!!

Obama won, and Obama is failing. So spend your time talking about some tape while Obama has the nation on the path toward financial collapse

I remember how much doom and gloom the far right posters were predicting six months to a year ago for the United States, with Obama as our President.

You remember the older but goodies, such as Obama’s out of control spending, (which is a Republican myth) Then Romney would crush Obama, the Senate would be taken from the Democrats and Obama care repealed.

I and millions of others didn't pay them any attention then, because we knew they were full of it. Today, we still don't pay any attention to them, because they are still full of it.

SteelerFan:

I would have bet---say $10,000---that someone from the Romney camp would have said "oh, crap" when the 47% tape became public. There was no going back from that.

Sorry joke. If the election was restricted to the insulted 47%ers, Willard would of won by a landslide.

p.s. Super bowl Igs beat Steelers, no joke.

Hey, Rick, President Obama won....the "he's failing" didn't work the last four years any better than Romney's Etch-a-Sketch routine. Time for your side to find a new line because the old one is stale, and deserves a final resting place on the GOP Shelf of Humiliation next to the birther nonsense.

Wow Jody think that all up by yourself? Yeah Obama is doing great, trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see, a negative economic growth rate last quarter which means if negative growth occurs this quarter we are in another recession, high unemployment, taxes going up on everyone, health insurance costs are up, gas fast approaching 4.00 a gallon, food prices up, no spending cuts, most people on welfare and food stamps, and Obama will leave office with more added to our national debt then all previous presidents combined. But you go ahead and blame someone else for the fact that the Obama policies to date have failed. No one expects liberals to admit the truth.

Bravo, Jody---excellent points. The sad thing to me is that through their own short-sightedness, the GOP created this situation for itself. Rather than take a long-term view of the demographics and examine its policies and priorities, the GOP sold out to the lowest common denominator in order to win elections. This strategy of Karl Rove's backfired on them yet he is somehow seen as the guy to turn things around.

Now we watch as Karl Rove tries to haul the GOPTP back toward center; too bad, he was the fool who helped create the radical, extremist monster that now threatens the very existence of the GOP as a viable party.

Exactly. He was also the one who thought up putting political fliers on cars parked in front of churches on Sunday. Karl's biggest achievement was organizing social conservatives for Bush. The result was to make Rick Santorum and Michelle Bachmann the faces of the Republican Party during the 2012 primary. They made their Party look deranged. There is a certain justice to this outcome.

Jody:

You are absolutely accurate in your analysis. However, there is one point with which I take issue, when you write:

"Meanwhile, the rest of us will sit back and watch the war within the GOPTP. Who knows whether the GOP can emerge again as a viable party or whether it will die a slow death from intellectual starvation and a lack of vision."

The fundamental strength of the right-wing is stupidity. Manifestations of G.O.P. stupidity have their counterparts in history with the Inquisition, witch burning, Luddites, Know-nothings, McCarthy paranoia, and on and on and on.

We cannot sit back and watch. Stupidity WILL NOT die.

Jody wrote:

Good luck with that "re-branding" effort, Mr. Cantor. It isn't the party's image that is the problem. It is the policies, the rigid ideology, the lack of governing ability which results from their hatred of government; it is the intolerance of the unemployed, minorities, women, Latinos, and the poor; it is the lack of compassion, lack of heart and lack of a soul. If the GOPTP wants to re-invent itself, it best start with an overhaul from the bottom up and from the inside out. Moving into the 21st century is recommended. Meanwhile, the rest of us will sit back and watch the war within the GOPTP. Who knows whether the GOP can emerge again as a viable party or whether it will die a slow death from intellectual starvation and a lack of vision.

______________

Jody, I see today's Republican Party as an abusive party. I have had it with their BS. And I do believe our media is and has been for years and years committing media malpractice. Particularly on cable.

Boy when the GOP took charge, they really really stomped on just about everybody along the way. Both here and in other parts of the world.

Corporate America too.

Their arrogance knew no bounds.

Well said Jody!

They have to come back to the 21^st Century, and they need to forget about the likes of the Tea Party, Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich, Michele Bachmann, Rahn Paul, Sarah Palin, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, Herman Cain, Rick Santorum, and the racist hillbillies that support them .

None of these folks can win the office of President!

Thanks, friends; and thanks for adding your excellent thoughts to it!

David W. You are right, we cannot sit back and watch; we must fight stupidity. But the party itself can meet its demise by the lack of intellect, its denial of science, etc. I wrote this shortly before FT popped up this morning and didn't think about that line beyond the idea that when the opposition is self-destructing, we don't need to do anything to interfere with their efforts.

Conservative republicanism is, has been, and always will, contain only that substance particular to the soothing of fools.

We are well into the new year. When are we going to hear some sensible, effective dialogue from the President and the democrats relative to our "limp along" and totally out of balance economy? From the 3ed quarter of 2007 to the present is a long time to live on a diet of beans. Republican sanctioned money trading and propped up, warped trade policies, given to Wall street then, seem to yet flourish now. While most do have hope, their sleep is yet troubled. Mr. President, Sir; the people believe in you. They trust you. The depth and breadth of their patience though, is not without end.

Pat, it is Florida after all. The same state that elected Rick Scott to be their chief executive, even though he was involved in the biggest Medicare fraud in history and used the excuse that as CEO he didn't know what was going on. Great qualities for a leader.

RTFS, Rubio is a totally overrated politician. Second only to Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney.

I would be surprised if Scott got re-elected but as you said - he was elected once despite all the evidence against him giving a sh!t about people.

I've seen Rubio on MTP and my first impression of him was that he was very bright, and the second was that he had all the integrity of a used car salesman. I know that describes most politicians, however with Rubio it's a tad too transparent to put him in the big leagues.

Amy, I don't think he's going anywhere nationally. Neither is Jindal.

They have to please both the center and right, which btw they are perfectly willing to do, just like Romney did. And look what happened to him.

No integrity.

Jindal was way too hysterical during the Guilf oil spill, for my taste. Maybe it's just my New England sensibility, but, to me, he behaved like a teenager, wanting to be rescued by the federal government at the same time he was mouthing off about it having no authority over him.

Amy --Agreed. Let's not forget Jindal's failed "sand berm" solution as well. A $350 Million dollar boondoggle.

None of these so called fake conservatives can win a National Election for President.

Pat, excellent post. When I listen to these media labelled "golden boys", the alleged best and brightest in the GOP like Rubio and Paul Ryan, I find myself wondering how anyone could make such a claim. Maybe they're the lastest shiny objects from the GOP but, honestly, I only see some really dim bulbs who speak to appease rather than with any sense of wisdom.

What? A group of liberal "pundits" that don't like some conservative politicians? Wait right here! I will alert the media!

Is Limbaugh still alive? Somebody has to keep me informed because I never listen to him willingly breath air that has been contaminated with his voice.

No matter how many Viagra that bloviating bastard pops, all he ends up with is a hard head. I say we throw a bucket of cold water on the prick and let him shrivel up and wither away.

Medicare Part D

Iraq

Afghanistan

Did you care then?

We need massive economic growth... which we don't have and never will under Obama. And we need massive spending cuts...

... massive economic growth requires massive spending and both need to be targeted.

Economic growth should happen independent of the Fed. Some just seem to have a need to be dependent.

djo - Don't think they care about what's here for their children in 10 years. Most liberals I know care only about now and themselves.

Look at the CAFR for the USA. Tell me why we are running ruinous "deficits" while turning TTTrillion dollar PROFITS at the same time.

Budget deficits are a SCAM; the product of keeping TWO SETS of BOOKS.

What these liberal drones don't under stand is that the private sector CREATES Wealth and the government CONSUMES Wealth and Obama's answer is to TAX the private sector to the hilt and re-distrubute that wealth to the government.

Taxing our way to prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket tryng to lift himself by the handles.

Have you not seen the CBO's forecasts

Republicans ignored the CBO forecasts when they passed the Bush tax cuts, during his administration, insisting that "tax cuts pay for themselves," when the CBO insisted cutting revenues would explode the debt, and it did.

Just keep repeating yourselves. It's rude, but ineffective.

@ssmithlg-

I have a friend that has an "Obama Phone", and it's not as high tech as you've been led to believe. She can use it for voice calling and text messaging and gets 250 minutes a month free. She can purchase more minutes @ $5 for 250 minutes. Her phone doesn't have a camera, or touch screen. It is very basic, but allows her to communicate her physicians and case managers.

She is disabled, broke and about to be homeless. We should punish her (more) by making her find a public phone to make calls from? That's COLD!

94% of the national debt belongs to 4 people, Reagan, Bush and Bush-Cheney

Obama needs to create some debt to match these guys.

untied we stand...your friend is a perfect example of someone that NEEDS the help. There is no problem with helping the helpless, its the clueless with their hands out looking for anything for free and unwilling to contribute who are the problem...screw them!! And obama is cultivating that society to keep the libs viable. It won't work because the money will run out!!

old jobless one...your guy has racked up more debt that all previous presidents combined. If your comment is designed to be clever it is not...it is stupid.

And an empty suit.

Right turn, Clyde!

Could you please explain how any one person (or party) can be fascists, communists and colonialists all at the same time? Better yet, please provide definitions for fascist, communist, and colonialist; then use those to explain your rant...uhhh, argument.

Jody ... that was satire.

What these liberal drones don't under stand is that the private sector CREATES Wealth and the government CONSUMES Wealth and Obama's answer is to TAX the private sector to the hilt and re-distrubute that wealth to the government.

Taxing our way to prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket tryng to lift himself by the handles.

OK...how does the private sector "create wealth?"

stone, google "Scentsy' that is how the private sector creates wealth.

Offering a product for sale does not create wealth. The product has to be sold. All of the costs involved in bring a product to market woulds be losses...as wasteful spending as a government give away, unless the product is sold.

My point is that it is "demand" that creates wealth and that "demand" to be effective, must be fullfilled by payment, in either cash or credit.

Stone6 and all... Check out link below on demand side vs supply side economics. Remember Demand side economics is Keynesian (Krugman) and does not work (has never worked and is what is being done by this administration). Supply side is working everyday so long as government stays out of the way.

http://www.v2load.com/videos/NgGixkB8V0Y/

I watched it...supply-side would, in theory, work under three conditions: 1) an economy suffering from inflation, with too much money chasing too few products, with businesses hesitant to expand due to high interest rates. 2) a "closed system" national economy, wherein the only opportunity for the investment of added disposable income is back into the domestic economy, where it trickles down, rather than a global economy, wherein it may trickle out. 3) there is a relationship between disposable income, economic expansion, and employment.

In the good old days you could count on employment following the DOW, by a few months. Today, a stock price is more likely to go up with a layoff announcement than up...because it means more often than not, an increase in productivity, whereby the same output is provided, with less labor.

In a deflationary environment, largely caused by too much bad credit, the problem is sufficient demand to justify the expansion of capacity. Keynesian economics will work...not indefinitely...but as short-term stimulus.

Even Friedman admitted that there were emergency times in which the best thing for government to do was to drop bundles of money from helicopters, to restart spending.

Key phrase "IN THEORY", it has never work in application. You sound like you know something about economics (but not applied). Your statement about Friedman is categorically wrong. If you have read up on Monetarism as I have you would not have made that statement. Thanks for the try, it's nice to have response that is not laden in koolaid.

Check out "The Optimum Quantity of Money and Other Essays," by Milton Friedman, Adline Publishing Company, 1969. Don't have the exact page number...try pp 1-5.

Read my post again...my "in theory" comment referred to supply-side economics.

"IN THEORY", I was referring to Keynesian (1950s version demand side or consumption) as theory and not application. If you look at Friedman work in entirety your that statement (I would call it cherry picking) is not very close and maybe misleading to how Friedman expected his economic thought to be implemented. All Economic thought is based a theme with some exceptions and to what Friedman was saying through his Monetarism idea was predominantly the private sector could best and most effectively drive the economy in a Free Enterprise (capitalistic) system. If government drove the cycle (as this administration is proposing) it would stimulate but not sustain. If fact is could have severe repercussions as the public monetary policy were to change (it would have to). Case in point are socialistic countries like old Soviet Union, China, Cuba and Venezuela.

I think Friedman was saying that that is true of "normal times" - i.e. in a reasonably sound economy, it is preferable that the private sector lead and the government follow, rather than vice versa. But, that in an "emergency" situation, government has the duty to step in and push the private sector into one direction or another to "restart" spending and/or capital investment, as the case may be.

Remember that his major contribution was a thesis regarding the Great Depression that explained why the Fed and Hoover were wrong in moving toward "tight money" policy as a means to recovery.

The application of correct economic policy depends upon the disease being treated. Volcker "broke" inflation by holding interest rates high...the very thing that was driving inflation. Bernanke, or "Helicopter Ben," is doing the exact opposite, for the opposite economic problem, deflation.

The messages, each in their own way, are clear to the business community...don't wait for us to rescue you. In fact, we are your worst enemy, so whether the cause is stagflation or deflation, you'd better get going and restore economic growth by responding.

But, no sane business person is going to hire people or add capacity without adequate demand FIRST. And, that is where government stimulus comes in...a sort of "trickle upwards."

The recent DOW boom reflects this...revenues are generally down (sales, reflecting weak consumer demand), but earnings (profits) are up, reflecting cut backs in labor and withholding new capital investments, in response to weak demand.

That process is causing a shift away from bonds toward stocks, helped by an increase in dividends and a decrease in the need for expansion capital. And, because many of the bond issues, made earlier, with higher interest rate payouts, are being recalled and reissued to reflect current interest rates, equity returns are beginning to rival bonds...leading to a shift into stocks, driving up prices and the market.

I do not disagree with either Keynes or Friedman...IMO, there is no single economic cure for ALL diseases.

markinbecker says "We therefore need to stand back and let the economy grow." How many new anti-business regulations did Obama put in recently? How is the coal industry doing? Do you think the Obamacare tax on medical device manufacturers is going to help or hurt business? How does our corporate income tax rates compare with other countries we compete with?

Doesn't sound like Obama is doing much to help the economy grow.

The answer is none. What will stifle the economy is not regulations, everybody deals with regulations. It is sudden massive cuts. Even the republicans in Congress agree. if we don't regulate or enforce regulations like bush we end up with a disaster to either our economy or our environment, neither of which is acceptable.

And once again FR erroneously states that the President signs a budget bill. NO, he only signs authorization bills (the actual authorization to spend the money proposed in the House and Senate Budget Resolutions). And Congress has failed to do that for several years now for each and every agency. Some years, only about have of the departments/agencies have received official authorization bills signed by the president. The rest have been funded by "continuing resolutions." And this has been going on for several administrations, not just the current one.

Tax and regulation costs would be "pass through" costs in pricing. Since they would impact all competitors in a given sector more or less evenly, the producers could safely raise prices to cover the costs, without a fear of losing market share. The price increases would, of course, show up as "inflation."

How many new anti-business regulations did Obama put in recently?

Gosh, why don't you tell us since you made the allegation. Good luck finding any.

The analysis from the American Action Forum, led by former Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin, found that the administration added $216 billion in rules and more than $20 billion in regulatory proposals in 2012. Complying with those rules will require an additional 87 million hours of paperwork, the report said.

The group put the total price tag from regulations during Obama’s first term at more than $518 billion.

Small potatoes compared to the 50 trillion dollar depression Wall Street defrauded us into.

According to the American Action Network website, the organization's purpose is to "create, encourage and promote center-right policies."

Gee, good to know their is a bi-partisan focus from that group. Surprised they didn't say the cost was two-hundred trillion dollars. How did they ever find the time to do an analysis of the cost of regulations, when this is their primary goal:

The group got involved in 23 House and five Senate races. The group focused most of its resources in 2010 targeting Democratic candidates for defeat, particularly in the battleground states of Pennsylvania ($2.5 million) and Virginia ($2.3 million). http://www.factcheck.org/2011/09/american-action-network-american-action-forum/

Then those "costs" would go into price increases and we would be seeing more inflation than we are seeing.

Only three possibilities: 1) they are illegally ignoring the regulations; 2) they are absorbing their cost by taking cuts on profits; 3) they are passing them along to consumers in price increases.

Which do you think it is?

Markinbecker, you continue to lecture on topics in which you have no understanding.

Chris Rhodes gave you numerous examples of Obama crushing this economy. Introducing new taxes is the dumbest thing you can do in a stagnant economy. Simply look at Obamacare... tons of hidden taxes including medical device taxes which even democrats were scrambling to repeal before they became active.

Raising payroll tax 2% hurts middle class workers even more than high earners because of the cap on social security withholdings. These people will spend less and corporations will make less and lay more people off. The remaining work force works harder and longer to make up for profits as they fear losing their jobs.

Obamacare is raising healthcare rates already for individuals and businesses. Businesses, foreseeing the disaster, are hesitant to hire.

The sequester is Obama and Jack Lew's concoction. They are not automatic spending cuts, like the article claims. If they were they would have started on Jan 1. But like everything else in this country, there is no accountability. You can miss the deadline and just kick the can down the road. Delay delay delay.

You can't sit back and wait for the economy to recover, because businesses need direction. They need to know about taxes, penalties, insurance costs. People need JOBS.

There are many people in this country that want to work. Unfortunately, there are far too many that choose not to work because liberals decided to give them more than their lazy-asses would earn.

Your goal is to cut the deficit in half in the next 8 years??? You're kidding. So that is 5+T in new debt, plus another 2T in interest on our current debt, for a grand total of 23.5T in debt at the end of 8 years.

So your goal isn't to reduce the debt... simply add less debt??? You deserve your president. Maybe in eight years when the country collapses, you guys can share a cardboard box together.

Why do you care?

Better question is "Why does MSNBC care?"

Because the Boy Scouts were going to make a decision today.

Hmmm..."War," as the General who burned Atlanta, and laid waste to much of the South, during the Civil War said, "is Hell."

Remember, the people being targeted are people who would use nuclear weapons against US if they could. At least we aren't fire bombing their cities or using nuclear weapons against them.

Difficult to fight an essentially guerilla war without unavoidable, collateral damage.

How else are we suppose to eliminate our enemies? They move around in safe haven countries. We are not going to invade a country just to hunt down a couple of dozen Al Qaeda leaders. As far as those very few Americans who have decided to take up arms against us, they are traitors and the worst kind of scum. If they want due process come on back home and turn yourself in and your will get due process before we hang you.

I get it, but look at those numbers. If those numbers are even close to accurate, we've killed 2-3 THOUSAND people to get at 41 high value targets. We've killed more kids than high value targets. How quick would we be to condemn China if they did this? Surely we can find a better way.

markinbecker - I have to differ from you on that point. Certainly, if a member of Al Qaeda, who is also an American citizen, is killed in a general attack on an Al Qaeda stronghold, by a drone, that person is simply a casuality of war. However, "targeting" a specific Al Qaeda leader, who is also a U.S. citizen is slightly different, in my opinion. That person is first and foremost a "traitor." But, until proven as such, even "traitors" have certain due process rights. It should not be too difficult to have Congress write a law that would allow for the federal prosecution of U.S. citizens for treason, in absentee, if necessary. The punishment for conviction would be to strip the subject person of citizenship, thus moving them to the category of enemy combatant.

I have no problem with the object of the "White Paper" authorizing the use of drones against U.S. citizens abroad, engaged in terrorist activities against their own country. But, I do have objections to a procedure written by administration lawyers, without the participation of Congress and the Judicial branch.

Let Congress write the law. Let a court adjudicate. And, let the Executive branch carry out the punishment.

stone - how do you suggest we administer "due process" in Yemen? Our Constitution applies inside our borders, not around the globe. You do not get our constitutional rights of Freedom of Speech or Freedom of the Press in countries around the world just because you happen to be a U.S. Citizen, do you??

I don't think the court's have any say in matters of war. Al Qaeda declared war on us. How are we going to spend 3 years adjudicating whether somebody is a traitor? Like I said, if they want due process turn yourself into a local US embassy. If you wage war against the United States you have waived your constitutional rights in my book. But I guess reasonable minds can differ.

You start down a very, very slippery slope if you allow one branch of government to be the judge, jury and executioner, based on its own interpretation of law.

My point is that pronoucing a death sentence on a U.S. citizen and carrying it out should involve a measure of due process whereever they are.

No, we cannot protect a U.S. citizen's rights, in all cases, when they are abroad...although that is one function of the State Department - i.e. in trying to ensure that other countries respect those rights as well. But, the issue here isn't about the Yeman government killing a U.S. citizen in Yeman; it is about the U.S. government killing a U.S. citizen in Yeman.

And, on the argument of "expediency?" I heard that regarding the Partiot's Act allowing the government to wiretap U.S. citizens, by-passing the prior requirement to show "cause" and obtain a court order, even though special courts had been set up to ensure expediency.

Sorry...I see neither reason sufficient to place all of this power in the hands of a single branch of government. It was the careful "checks and balances" system arrived at in 1787 that allowed for the SYSTEMIC transfer of power from the several states to a central government. Without those checks and balances, including the Bill of Rights, the Constitution would have never, in my opinion, been or should have been, ratified.

Therman, Tax cuts for the low to middle class? Really?

Wrong. The democrats have offered trillions in cut but the republicans won't even acknowledge they exist. What needs to happen is both side need to shut up and get down to serious negotiations. The upcoming sequester is a train wreck for our economy.

Mark,

Trillions in cuts? Really. Was that today?

I agreed with your argument up until the last sentence. IMO The American people made some mistakes on election night but electing Barrack Obama was not one of them. If you have not been satisfied with the last four years I 100% agree with you. We could have gotten out of this faster, more efficiently had it not been for Congress putting politics in front of the good of the country. Did I agree with everything Obama had done ...no but I am awful glad he was the President during such a time.

Still pushing the "fantasy land" view from Obamaville??

Let's check out how Obama did on his campaign promise to raise taxes on the top 2%. Did the legislation he signed into law by auto-pen raise taxes on the top 2%?? No it did not! Well then maybe he raised taxes on the top 1%?? Not exactly! It turns out that taxes have been raised on only those with the top 0.7% of incomes and then not fully back to the Clinton era rates. Even billionaires are got a tax cut. But why should anyone be surprised at Obama's failure to fulfill another campaign promise since we all know that Obama is "math challenged". I'm sure Pelosi called Obama in Hawaii and told him to just sign the bill; he could read it and find out what was in it when he returned from vacation. Then he could have Timmy present to explain everything to him.

Republicans had been trying to get the Bush tax cuts made "permanent" for 12 years, but were consistently blocked by Democrats who knew that the tax revenue from letting all those tax cuts expire was needed to fund their Big Government programs. Obama threw liberals/progressives "under the bus" by doing what Republicans have been trying to make happen for so long. What a hoot! Bush2 has a big smile on his face these days.

You keep posting that. Must be the "Party line," these days.

So...Obama didn't have the votes to pass his preferred income tax bill. The interesting thing is why Republicans continue to blast him over his compromise. What's your point? Are you calling on him NOT to compromise on spending cuts?

Seems to me that you want to provoke a confrontation. Why?

As usual Peter.... those that oppose the President , like yourself, like to create their own facts on issues they do not fully appreciate or understand. There is a stubborn level of ignorance on how government works with people like you. Most people who support the president on this blog try to explain to the likes of you the limitations the President has with the type of government we enjoy. To blame the POTUS on unfulfilled campaign promises just looks like you trying to make a desperate argument. you contradict your own statement you blame Obama for not fulfilling his promises yet in the same paragraph you say the republicans have tried to make things permanent and blame that on the opposition party(Democrats).

Pointing out that Obama did not get a big "win" on the fiscal cliff deal, as some of his supporters claim, is hardly "provoking a confrontation". It is expressing a different opinion. That is what our form of government is all about.

The issue of what spending cuts to make and when will be very much a compromise, and it will be a tough process likely to take many months. There is little low hanging fruit left. The federal government is going to have to do something they have not been willing to for many decades, actually prioritize their spending. And that means some programs many favor will be cut back. It will likely mean combining federal agencies and some of the overlap of programs and that will mean job losses at the federal level - not easy to do.

The federal government has not made the tough choices over the past 50 years because they didn't have to. That has now changed. It would be helpful to have a leader in the White House that helped lead that process instead of whining about the bad hand he was dealt.

Peter, as usual you cherry pick the facts. The president called on the top 2% to pay more taxes. That is EXACTLY what happened. The rates went up on incomes of $450k and up and INCOME TAX DEDUCTIONS on those making $250k and up were REDUCED.

The Republicans did not want the top 2% to pay one penny more in taxes, they lost that completely. They wanted spending cuts, they did not get a single dime. The only thing that they DID GET is exactly what Obama has been calling for since 2008.

This is why Boehner pronounced that he will no longer negotiate with the president, Obama ate him up and spit him out in the fiscal cliff deal.

Kind of like this eh Willard? Written TWO days ago. Or is it that this has become so routine, you conviently FORGET the "other" facts.

www. washingtontimes. com/blog/inside-politics/2013/feb/4/obama-misses-budget-deadline/

Your turn hotshot. But before you begin, know I'm neither repub nor demo.

This moron of a president never submits budgets when he's suppose to. Who takes this idiot seriously??

From the Wall Street Journal Peter;

Deductions Limits Will Affect Many

By JOHN D. MCKINNON

WASHINGTON—One of the biggest tax increases in the fiscal-cliff bill is also one of the least understood: a set of limits on tax deductions and other breaks that will hit far more households than the bill's rate increases for top earners.

The bill approved in Congress to avert the fiscal cliff would bring the first major tax increase on high earners in 20 years. Laura Saunders breaks down how new tax increases will impact across different tax brackets.

The bill that cleared Congress Tuesday boosts the tax rate for single filers making more than $400,000 and married couples filing jointly making more than $450,000, or roughly the top 1% of filers.

But provisions that reduce the value of personal exemptions as well as most itemized deductions, including those for mortgage interest and state income-tax payments, will affect about twice as many people since they carry a lower income threshold—$250,000 for singles and $300,000 for married couples.

I am happy you posted from the wall street journal.

While you're at it, sink your teeth into this one:

online. wsj. com/article/SB10001424127887323936804578227890968100984.html?KEYWORDS=obamacare%27s+health-insurance+sticker+shock

"Although President Obama repeatedly claimed that health-insurance premiums for a family would be $2,500 lower by the end of his first term, they are actually about $3,000 higher—a spread of about $5,500 per family."

He is such a defender of the middle class this King of the Do Nothings!

You have to wonder when the time comes when you can no longer point the finger at anyone and play the blame game. Obamacare, is all his doing, and will be a nightmare once fully implemented. Would love to hear your tune then.

Irrelevant post - no value.

And that is where you're wrong and completely incompetent.

But keep spewing your rhetoric as long as it satisifes your daily needs. Ignorance is temporary. But stupidity is forever.

Tax all you want, 2%, 1%, at 100% for that matter, and Obmacare alone will make it look like pennies on the dollar gained.

But heaven forbid he puts this horror of his care act on hold, or proposes cuts on entitlement programs. Just let his loyal followers believe that we can tax the rich and spend out of this mess that after five years of borrowing and printing, he put us in. Think the wars, which democrats and rebuplicans both voted for, can account for 5T in four years? I have a bridge to sell you if you dare say yes.

Nothing at all to do, lets say for instance, that their still are no jobs and welfare spending has doubled under him. No, the economy, the idiots state and the ignorant believe, is improving!!

Both you and the president really need another course on high school civics.

Get a job.

94% of the national debt belongs to 4 people, Reagan, Bush and Bush-Cheney

Obama needs to create some debt to match these guys.

Just ... I think Willard is just tired of rehashing the same facts to dense people like yourself, however , I disagree with him on your post about Obama care, your misinformation IS relevant. It infects everything else you write. You idiots on the right want to blast Obama for not fulfilling a campaign promise he made in2008. devoid of any other relevant argument you have to get into this should've ,could've argument which makes your argument weak from the start. Yes... costs have gone up does it have anything to do with Obama...no or the supposed lack of honesty of the POTUS.... absolutely not. The Health Care reform act is not fully implemented so any dire predictions are not only premature but uninformed. What I can tell you is that the parts that have been implemented have done nothing but help people despite your bitter disappointment.

Name one person Barrycare has helped?