E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSDuring the presidential campaign last fall, Univision asked President Obama about his biggest failure in his four years in office.
His answer: passing comprehensive immigration reform.
But Obama, at the forum sponsored by the Spanish-language network in September, continued:
"I think that I’ve learned some lessons over the last four years, and the most important lesson I’ve learned is that you can’t change Washington from the inside. You can only change it from the outside. That’s how I got elected, and that’s how the big accomplishments like health care got done."
Mitt Romney and the Republican Party pounced on those comments. "The president today threw in the white flag of surrender again,” Romney argued. “He said he can’t change Washington from inside; he can only change it from outside. Well, we’re going to give him that chance in November. He’s going outside!”
Yet campaign rhetoric aside, Obama was admitting a simple truth about American politics at that Univision forum: The power to change policy comes from public opinion. And it also comes from the ballot box.
In other words, elections have consequences -- especially after more than 70 percent of Latinos backed Obama in the 2012 presidential election, up from 67 percent in 2008.
That explains why Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) -- who once championed comprehensive immigration reform but has opposed it ever since the '08 election -- is back on board.
"Elections, elections. The Republican Party is losing the support of our Hispanic citizens," McCain said at a news conference yesterday announcing his support of bipartisan principles to reform the nation's immigration system.
Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) put it another way. "The politics on this issue have been turned upside down," he said. "There is more political risk in opposing immigration reform rather than supporting it."
None of this is to say that immigration reform's passage through Congress is a sure thing. Already, opponents are asking that the Senate slow down consideration of any legislation. "No secret accord with profound consequences for this nation’s future can be rushed through. That means a full committee process and debate and amendments on the floor of the Senate," Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) said in a statement yesterday.
But it does point to how outside forces -- and elections -- can change politics, at least for a while, on issues like immigration and taxes.
Leave a Comment:
Recent polling and public opinion being what it is, safe to say President Obama is indeed changing Washington.
A loud & clear message was sent to DC in November, it's time to acknowledge it!
The sooner those on the right educate themselves with what a majority represents... the better!
Hey Old, gal, you gonna try to take this thread off the rails like Navy did on First Thoughts?
What'll be?
Guns, Bush, Anne Romney, Dancing with the Stars, Celebrity Diving?
Can't tell yet, cuz it looks like you dropped your period again.
Absolutely Feisty. The nation is leaving them behind and it's both wonderful & refreshing.
To be part of history in the making is exhilarating!
FACT = we will leave this nation a better place for our children & grandchildren!
Good to see my doggy whistle never fails - HEEL Boy or there will be no Scooby-Snacks for you!
WCA... You're five-prong attack on a piece of punctuation has really put the exclamation point to your manhood!! What a stud!
Meanwhile though, the way you paddle around in that punch-bowl as if it were still fresh with your little turd hands folded behind your little turd head belies the fact that you really haven't realized the party is long over...
WCA - I can't speak for others but oft times it is hard to talk about issues like gun control or immigration, things considered "controversial." On first thoughts the righties were screaming that posts should be exclusively about immigration. However, when many fair minded, thoughtful posts were made, the anger filled hate fest began. I don't know where these people come from. Apparently the moderators have chosen to let this site degrade to a free for all of name calling but I digress.
With all the delusional rants, feed by unknown fears are expressed, it is tiresome to combat their rhetoric over and over again. However, I will, because the alternative is to let the uniformed, the conspiracy theorists and unhinged hold the floor.
I have spoken many times on immigration, glad to see this reform is starting. Getting back to the article, ballots and public opinion direct the conversation and direct the legislation. Perhaps a nod to Obama's idea of "leading from behind" and getting the public involved. I am glad that Obama is keeping another promise. He stated that immigration would be the first thing on his list.
All that said, I'm not sure if a reasoned, sensible bill can pass. There are so many congressman and senators that may listen to the fringed loons. However, as Obama said in the campaign he will need our help to get things done. He will have mine.
edit
Also to touch briefly on guns, Ballots not bullets protect against tyranny and government oppression.
OK, gonna force myself to be brief here.
Immigrants are here, we'll never be able to keep them all out, and those already here constitute a vital part of the economy. Those who've minded their business and obeyed the law, give 'em a fast track to citizenship (like that bed-wetting bleeding heart pinko namby-pamby Liberal wuss Ronald Reagan did); the ones who've gotten into gangs or otherwise made themselves unwelcome, send their sorry *s home.
Gun control: The only people demanding the right to own military-style weapons outside of a military context (National Guard or Sheriff's Reserve) are the right-wing loonies who are most likely to either use them on a family member or have them stolen and wind up on the street. The U.S.A. is the only industrialized (for the moment, anyway) nation where the black market for weapons is out in the open and advertised on country radio stations.
Peace (PLEASE!)
Just wait until they leave the nation behind... and there is no one left to pay the bills.
Just how "refreshed" will you be then?
FoxTrotsky - short and to the point! Well said! (Bows to you!)
FoxTrotsky... I agree that there needs to be Peace too however when there are this many voices sounding off in various ways (talking points for discussion or purely badmouthing), it continues to show the diversity.
My two cents: Do not slap the faces of the people that are already to obtain citizenship legally. Start forming the lines now and get some extra help (more jobs!) to get the folks started on the right path and process.
HA!
You just noticed that? It has been that way for the last 4 years! And Fisty and her clan have been some of the worst offenders...
Just take a look a the the cr@p she, Bev, InSanity and may other post. If you are being truly honest you will have to admit that they are horrid.
But perhaps that is asking too much...
Sick of - Fiesty and her clan have been some of the worst offenders...
I am not a moderator although at times I have told my side to temper their posts. Before you call me dishonest, or hypocritical, understand that I can only moderate my own temper and my own posts. I'll speak my own thoughts, lead by my own example. I can't force others to think, believe or post like me. Those that choose to post insults, crude jokes, or attacks detract from what could be a good discussion. As a general rule, not highlighting any particular poster, debating not bickering is what makes this blog enjoyable.
Another quick comment, incendiary avatars do not help foster, good feelings or reasoned responses.
I am real impressed with the post so far, Feisty, Pat in Boston as always, Yellowdog-Mark D, and FoxTrotsky. Your post are truly inspiring. Identifying the problem, and suggesting a fix should be what these forums are for. However, sometimes I just want to have fun and let her loose a bit. So hear goes.
WCA, probably the worst poster here is looking to leg hump Feisty as near as I can tell as he is inquiring about her menstrual cycle. I think the reason most like WCA cannot think for themselves is they have never grown up, and the world of grownups scare them. Who knows why they are so full of hate, perhaps the failure of every republican president, the damage that republicans have done and are doing to this country plays into why they want to continue the same failed policies. They are failures in life themselves.
I have been called Vile by Yellowdoggy himself but no you're not a hypocrite, you just wont public flog Fisty and co. for their VILE behavior.
As for incindiary avatars, NewsForDumFux is hardly a warm welcome from the Resident Owner of FR (per Fisty's own Vision). Like I said yesterday, its the hard lefties in here that have created through precedence this hostile environment. Quit playing passive agressive to justify the behavior
Caesar...
I was just about to enter a very similar response. Well put.
As for my avatar... it's a political statement... no different than the avatars used by Fisty, Bev and others at times. I did not see you posting comments about the images they used as avatars... (dishonest or a hypocrite... i never said that...)
(btw... I cannot take credit for the image... I downloaded it... but I particularly like the 666 on his forehead ;-)
HAHAHA!!!!! it takes all kinds of idiots to make this site what it is!
Hey Dork!
WCA was talking about Fisty jumping in to get the first post on a new thread by entering a (.) period... then coming back and editing her post!
(Obviously, being the first to post is the only 'good' thing in her miserable existence.)
You are so unbelievably stupid!
HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!
Hey YellowDog... here are a couple of fine examples of some of the more refined members of your 'group' showing respect and adhering to the CoH here at FR...
--------------------------------------------------
Post #1.106 on the first thoughts thread:
Houston!
Caesar Disgustus:
What kind of rewards did you get that makes you act like a jerk? We should definitely stop rewarding your racist rants.
For your information, illegal immigrants come from all over the world. They just nabbed 15 Israelis here in Houston working illegally in a shopping mall.
Most people who come here illegally do so to do hard work that lazy bums like you wouldn't touch.
--------------------------------------------------
And Right behind him....
Post #1.107 on the first thoughts thread:
RedDevPS
Naw. Likewise, I could care less about your brood of @!$%#ty little bastards
--------------------------------------------------
Aren't they just ambassadors of kindness, tolerance and understanding!
Many of us Progressives don't hate these radical right wing posters. We just don't like the crazy ones.
Today, I don't pay them any attention, because I know they are full of it. And tomorrow I still won't pay any attention to them, because they will still be full of it.
Forward with Progressivism!!!
kindly told houston to go do something to herself.
Job1,
I fail to see how your post has any relevance to the topic being discussed between myself, Caesar and YellowDog.
No one is discussing who you like and dislike, we are discussing the behavior of certain individuals on this vine and the way they pour anger and hate toward anyone that has a differing opinion.
Your last post only proves you to be one of them.
“We’ve been assuming that when the Baby-Boomer population gets most expensive [to support], that there are going to be [enough] immigrants and their children who are going to be paying into [programs for the elderly], but in the wake of what’s happened in the last five years, we have to reexamine those assumptions.” - Roberto Suro, Professor of Public Policy - University of Southern California - who studies trends in birth rates.
What happened in the last few years is the birth rate has declined more than expected due to the economy. Hispanics think Obama wants to help them. He wants to use them to support the Baby Boomers in their retirement years.
(dishonest or a hypocrite... i never said that...)
Yes, I know you didn't. I was merely trying to stave off a response from a poster like the thirteenth post. Didn't work as that particular poster who claims to be the fair minded and presumably "venerable" emperor posted anyway.
During the gun debates, I remember I noted the preponderance of angry, mentally ill, young white males were doing the shooting. The "August" one twisted my post to show my "supposed" racist tendencies. To which I noted and lamented the increasing vile rhetoric from posters that were clouding their judgement on gun control. I admit I called one of his posts the most vile I had seen about Newtown.
Perhaps we should all learn to ignore those that solely look to agitate and get angry responses? That goes for people on both sides. I still have not placed anyone on ignore, but I do skip over a lot of angry diatribes.
Yep, since Mr. Obama said he couldn't do anything from the Oval Office due to his lack of leadership, it will be "On the Road Again" and again, and again to garnish PUBLIC OPINION.
Wait a dad gum minute.....he just took CREDIT for HIS LEADERSHIP in bringing the Democrats and Republicans together on the immigration issue. N A R C I S T I C as always.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOB1 needs to get a real job.
thanks Mark. dont believe ive ever had any issues with you. as tota has explained you want a debate I will do so civilized. you want to use descriptives such as 'white angry' (passive agressive and provacative) then you will get a similar response.
page out of the old LibsRus playbook. As i said yesterday Marky, the passive agressive attitude is hardly a good excuse for your behavior(s). you are a part of the precedence that has been set. Nope, you still give your LibsRUs clan a free pass by not acknowledging your tolearant friends are the root cause, instead ban the opposing view....Sounds like this stupid gun debate. I believe that is what SOTB is talking about.
you did say my posts were vile, concluding im vile.
so Yellowdoggy you can back to chasing your 'tail'
If each and every one of you had gotten involved in the Popular Amendment Movement over two years ago, we could have already changed the face of politics in this nation from the OUTSIDE. Join the movement today at www.faircampaignreform.us and get involved. Write your Senators and Representative and let them hear your voice on each of these issues (yes, this topic of immigration, the budget/economy, jobs, violence in this nation, etc.) Flood their offices with emails, faxes, phone calls. Let them know that their constituents are watching what they are doing (or not doing). Visit your local office of your representative/senators and speak loud and clear with their staff about your positions. That is how the "outside" will influence what the members of Congress do or don't do. You need to speak up in public and with their offices, not just sit here at your computers complaining on Newsvine. GET INVOLVED TODAY!
Let's remember before you accuse others who, "pour anger and hate toward anyone that has a differing opinion," please look at yourselves in the mirror. A pot calling a tea kettle black.
Seriously, changing Washington alright...into the most tyrannical white house ever.
So Obama has come out and said that securing our borders should not be a part of immigration reform. Well it appears it is already time for Obama to start moving the goalpost. What Obama needs to realize is that he doesn't write the laws, and when they come to his desk he can either sign them or use his veto power. But when you have bipartisan agreement and already Obama is trying to interfere, is... he doing it for a good reason or just in the hopes he can blame Republicans if this demand derails the process? Absolutely!!! If you ever questioned his leadership before, this should nail the coffin close for sure. Presidents for decades have been promising to secure the borders including Obama, but he never has and it appears he doesn't see the need. The arrogance and foolishness of this action alone should lead to impeachment!
you want to debate...
Mind telling me how restricting assault weapons and large magazines is the same as confiscating weapons, taking away the 2nd amendment and trampling on the Bill of Rights?
How about explaining how this reform proposal which clearly outlines that the affected undocumented will be placed at the back of the line, means that they will cut in line and get amnesty and free stuff to boot?
Or make me understand how common sense infrastructure repairs, financial support for education and HC reform is part of Obama's plan to morph to communism?
Awesome!
BTW... in my post at #1.14 - when I speak of my avatar... that paragraph was intended for Yellowdog Mark to read. As I re-read it, it sounded as if I was speaking to you. (sorry for any confusion)
Yellow dog, those on the extreme right have their 1st Amendment right to free speech even if it makes them look hateful and ridiculous. There is no law against being an idiot or sounding like one. Democracy thrives on dissent and difference of opinion. The people to worry about are not the vocal rwnj Facsist wannabes but people, no matter what their political opinions, who are silent and do not participate in our democracy.
Name calling and false statements about one's opposing views has existed since before this nation was founded. One needs look only to the battles between Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton to see that. Despite our differences, when the chips are down, Americans will come together for the good of the nation.
As was pointed out in another article, although Obama and Clinton fought tooth and nail saying some horrible things about each other they came together like the professional adults they are and have done some good things for this country. I am optimistic that the Republicans will eventually start acting like adults and, despite their differences with the Democrats and the President come together for the good of the people of this country. If they don't there will no longer be a Republican party.
That Redhead person is having some issues. Someone needs to take her computer away. She waste time with the lies she tries to explain away from her party. Does she really believe the stuff she says on here? Or, just looking for a reaction. Or, possibly she is just a loney person looking for someone to talk to her. To give her relivence. She must be one boring person. With that I'll get ready to go out to dinner with friends. Something she only has here in the computer world I bet.
We're seeing an increasing tendency for the debate to be steered from outside the Beltway, and that's a good thing. The Echo Chamber would have us back on a trajectory of favoring Wall Street over Main Street. Those of us who live up the block from Main Street wouldn't have it. The discussion has even opened up a little on the topic of wealth disparity, which the Washington bunch would like to sweep under the rug.
We have another war winding down even though the Beltway Bunch would have us believe that we stay "until the job is done" without ever defining what that would be.
Fiscal responsibility is defined as a balanced combination of revenue increases and spending cuts not because those in DC see it that way, but because We the People MAKE THEM see it that way.
Regular folks realize that gay marriage presents no risk to our own marriages, so there's no reason not to be fair, even handed, and well...American about the whole thing.
Now immigration reform hits the fast track because we are a nation of immigrants. The chattering class would have it be an impossible thing to discuss for no other reason than they believe it to be so. Turns out not so much.
Climate change is once again a topic of conversation, because average Americans can see it happening all around us. We tend to believe in science, too, unlike one of our major political parties.
All this is good stuff. All this is how it should be. All this presents a pretty good future.
tell me how its not. my take is where do you simply draw the line. I guess by ARMS one can conclude swords and knives eh? So why not that argument. The intent of the 2nd Amendment wasnt for hunting. There is plenty of writings of the founding fathers to support that arming the populace not just against insurrection but also against Tyranny. They just fought with weapons(not mere swords and knives) the Tyranny of Britain. Without those weapons, words meant nothing to King Georgie, none of this was possible. The 2nd amend. stands because of that. After all the populace of the day had the same weaponry as the Continental Army.
difference is they are still here, regardless of some imaginary line. Hardly fair for someone in say Armenia trying to get here and yet a citizen of say Mexico is already here. back of the paperwork line is irrelevant. I am not for amnesty to any illegal alien. so let me be labeled racist for it.
I can't make you understand anything but you really made it sound so simple with Obama's plan(s). I believe the Devil is in the Details. Tell me what finacial aid for college tuition has to do with HC reform?
Wow, it is so inspiring to read these liberals having a love fest. There are some realities about Washington, and none of them will be a bright spot in future history books. The simple fact about immigration is that if 70% of immigrants voted Republican then Obama would not be supporting any changes. Immigration is about votes and tax revenue and nothing else. As if we need changes in the first place, but apparently that is what is the price we pay when Washington fails to enforce existing laws. The gun control measures will fail like all others have, and you have states with the toughest gun laws to prove it. This in an infringement on law abiding citizens from the very liberal anti-gun advocates, and nothing else. Obama is just using a good crisis for stricter gun control that has nothing to do with solving the problem. Our debt and deficits, Obama will leave office with the national debt well in excess of 20 trillion, which will be proof in the failure of his leadership. ObamaCare will end up driving up the cost of healthcare. History books will have Obama as the poster boy of how badly presidents can fail, and how easily the masses can be duped.
i knew that. I find it ironic and hypocritcal about how quick they (FR's hard left) are to judge and tattle.
'Im telling on you for breaking the CoH you fvcking pvssy'.
Pandering works in elections
The Latinos comprised 10% of the 127 million votes for Obama and Romney in 2012 = 12.7 million votes. Obama won that group by 71% to 27%, a margin of 44% = 5.6 million votes, which was greater than his overall victory margin of 4.9 million votes, so PANDERING TO THE HISPANICS WON HIM THE ELECTION. Romney won the 'other' groups by 700,000 votes.
People collecting 'free' welfare and medicaid benefits comprised 25% of the votes in 2012 = 31.5 million votes, and Obama won this group by 70.2% to 29.8%, a margin of 12.9 million votes, which was almost 3 times his overall margin of victory of 4.9 million votes, so PANDERING TO THE WELFARE VOTE ALSO WON HIM THE ELECTION. Romney won the group that actually works, takes care of themselves and their families, and pay income taxes to pay for welfare by 8 million votes.
Unfortunately for the Republicans, the Democrats will ALWAYS 'out-pander' the Republicans when it comes to offering 'something for nothing'.
Of course those responsible Americans who actually work, obey the laws, and pay income taxes are the ones that pay the price.
1.32 a try at debate? ^ 1.34 not so much.
Gun control - The line is drawn on assault weapons and the large capacity magazines. Despite what you think I am implying or suggesting, I am not against guns or gun ownership. Do you really think that a pair of shotguns or even an arsenal of AR-15's are going to stand up against a "preceived" tyrannical future government? If the government of the future comes after guns, then we, ALL OF US have already lost. We would have lost because we sat back and let it happen without tempering them with our votes and voices.
One point I would say about our Bill of Rights, why do people only seem to care about the perceived attacks on the 2nd? Why are we not alarmed and angered at the very real erosion of our civil liberties regarding wire tapping, storing of personal information? Policies put in place by Bush and YES continued by Obama.
Immigration - They will still be in behind others that are applying legally. As I understand it, the provisions required border governors to input when they can move forward depending on the border security. Look I will surely not change your opinions of the undocumented or get you to understand why they bring economic value to the nation. However, what is your solution? Surely even you can see a problem. Why not identify, enroll, tax them instead of ignore them and hope the problem doesn't get worse? The solutions offered are not amnesty. Just like your words, or words you copied in post 1.34, illegal aliens is offensive terminology.
False socialism rants - It is hard to understand every aspect of legislation and have never said everything that Obama or any politican supports is perfect. I don't know what you are talking about. My third question I posed was meant for posters like you who claim everything Obama does is a leap toward socialism.
Edit - You lambast the "Hard left liberals" but you find no fault in your own's language. I don't have to justify myself to you. If you wish search my old posts for the times I have called out people on my side when they cross the line. Funny no one has every done anything similar when your hard right compatriots routinely cross the line.
How many actually believe the illegal immigration problem will be solved by asking 12 million willing lawbreakers to pay fines, back taxes, learn English, get a drivers license, auto and health care insurance and pledge allegiance to America ?.... How many believe more than 7% will, or can reply ?.....And how many believe the proposed mandates and concessions on the part Obama and Senators will discourage 20 million more from crossing our boarders illegally ?
After all the butt kissing and political hoopla is over, there will still be nearly 12 million and growing illegal immigrants in America.....
Go to change.org and sign my petition to Congress to make entering America illegally a felony.. thank you
Yellowdog,
The solution is not in appeasing those that are already here, which encourages more to come.
The solution is in making illegal entry a felony and a mandatory jail sentence for repeat offenders, as well as class four felonies for any who knowing employs an illegal alien. If there is no means of survival, there will be no reason to come, nor stay............
OK I will make a deal with the liberal left.. You secure the border, then we can talk about immigration reform.
Does anyone remember back when Reagan was president back in 86. The Democratic Congress said, pass amnesty now, and we will secure the border later.
Was it not Ted Kennedy, who said something along the lines of, if we pass this now we will never have to deal with this again.
My problem is this..
They broke our laws coming into this country illegally... They continue to break our laws by staying here. Now the Democrats want to make it easier for these people to become citizens? Sorry but No..
Many of us are not against immigration, just do it the right way. I will support LEGAL immigration till the day I die. Most of us are here because of Legal Immigration...
1) stop the warping of the Anchor Babies by giving a clear ruling on the 14th. ( which was created to gave freed slaves citizenship) Just because you crossed the border and had your baby should not make him a US Citizen. There is legal precedence here, an ambassador from another country serving here has a child on US Soil, that child is NOT a US citizen.
2) Secure the border. I don't really care if you have to build a 12 foot wall with razor wire and guard towers. Manned by either solders or camera controlled guns. Mexico has troops along its southern border, why are ours so porous? BOTH the northern and southern boarders NEED to be secure one way or another.
3) IF you are here illegally, come forward, be deported and THEN we can talk about fast tracking your citizenship. ( since you came forward on your own )
The only reason I can think of that the Dems push this issue is to get more Hispanic voters. Since they tend to vote Democratic. We have enough of our own unskilled, minimum wage, high school drop out, people in this country already. We do not need millions upon millions more sucking at the Gvmnt teet.
Secure the border, then we can talk. republicans should of learned in 86 not to trust the dems on Immigration " reform "
That's all? Once we've deported 10,000,000 people we can start to debate the issue? Well, why didn't you SAY so?
The only reason that's your line in the sand is that you know it can't happen, therefore the debate never occurs.
John,
why are you so willing fast track millions of people for citizenship when they broke our laws to get here in the first place. I just cant wrap my head around WHY we should reward them for breaking our laws.
FACT = we will leave this nation a better place for our children & grandchildren!
1. In debt for the rest of their lives due to government spending.
2. Dramatically increased dependency on government handouts.
3. Increased entitlement mentality
4. Even more illegals pouring into the country for the next amnesty.
5. A government that increasingly tries to dictate what our morals should be, how we should talk, what we should/shouldn't say, what we should eat, etc.
6. A rapid decline in morals.
Yes, I can see how this country is getting better.
I really pity the future children of our country.
Jeremy, it's a practical matter.
How are we going to get them all out of here before we do anything else?
The answer to that question makes it clear there's no point in considering that path.
So now we are going to let practical matters dictate our laws?
How do we get them all out? Its really not that hard. You let law enforcement do their job.
Sanctuary Cities like San Fan, have to go. How many things in this country require identification? You secure the border ( which should be a national defense issue but its not ) then you start the deportations.
Put them on a yellow school bus and drive them to the nearest border town and say goodbye, if we catch you again your ass is in jail for 6 mths. ( then start the chain gang work programs again )
After their time is up, send em back..
Come here legally or not at all.
And the cost, at a time when we supposedly can't even afford to help keep our retired people out of poverty? Where are the many billions required to do all this going to come from?
Was that the same forum Romney went to with his face faux-painted a mormon shade of latino?
chick, Romney's "self-deport" comment was disgraceful.
I am so proud of the Senate for working together on this very important piece of legislation. Just a few years ago this bill wouldn't have stood a chance.
Speaks very highly of America and how we're slowly turning back the culture wars that were such a huge part of the Republican Party agenda. The Latino community did a great job of picking up mainstream America's support.
This is huge. It truly does come from the outside. Absolutely.
Romney is already seen as a relic from the past. The good 'ole boys mindset is slowing disappearing. Finally.
My Mother had her 79th Birthday yesterday. She lives alone, walks her treadmill every day, and makes up her own mind about everything. I found out in short order last night that SHE hasn't forgotten Romney!! Long story short... NOT a fan... I won't use her description of him here so it will have to suffice to say that it was laser accurate albeit surprising from an elderly lifelong housewife.
I'd like to be as positive about the good 'ol boys mindset slowly disappearing... I don't trust them as a group though. They NEED something and they're liable to turn over the earth convincing someone they deserve it... I have trouble discerning between a GOP'r doing what their forced to do and a GOP'r doing what they feel is right... The difference of course being hidden in their filthy little lifetime lying racist personalities. I don't think we can be too harsh on them after what we've seen and I don't think what we've seen is anything that four, eight, twelve, or sixteen years could beat out of the dog.
chick - watched Jimmy Fallon last night. He had Brian Williams on and Williams said Romney was the first loser since Dukakis who didn't attend the winner's inauguration. He said the guy has basically gone off the radar - no one knows where he is. Very odd.
Seeking, one very important difference between MittWitt and Son of a Bush is that Bush got elected entirely on his likeability factor; competence never even came up. (If it had, those of us who'd had him for a Governor would have tilted the election to Gore for sure!)
Still, five minutes after Obama took the oath, you couldn't find one person in the Republican command structure who'd ever heard of 'Mr. Affability': "Bush? You mean the baked beans guy? No, it was that English emo singer, Kate!"
Ro-Money, on the other hand, was never going to get in there on likebility; even in Darkest Banjoland, there was deep unease over whether the guy was even human- so it's no f*&%^$! wonder he's been deep- sixed. By 2016, he'll have been forgotten by everybody (except the people whose jobs he sent overseas).
Love ya, Seeking. Keep kicking 'em in the... in the place where their manhood is supposed to be.
Peace!
Fox - thank you. Have to repeat one of the"funnies" (except to the guy it happened to) reported on either Leno or Fallon last night (couldn't sleep!). It seems one very pro-gun nutcase stood up and shot off their little guy! Hmmmmmmm! Yeah - we REALLY need more smart people like him carrying guns! Oh, I guess HE won't be making any more like him!
Nobody would attack an elementary school if the teacher and all of the kids are packing heat!
Am neither a liberal nor conservative, but I know it is not possible to cure the illegal immigration problem by asking those who have consistently shown disdain for American laws to abide by a new law.
I am willing to bet less than 7% of illegal immigrants in America will, or will be eligible to apply for the so-called path to citizenship......It is a feel good political hoax, and nothing else !!!!
conscience - not conscious - way too busy and making mistakes trying to multi-task!
okay - totally wrong board. My bad!
You have been banned for a week for this mistake
well, I did notice that misspelling, on the other thread, but I decided not to point it out as I am the queen of misspellings and typos!
Amy, my past two days and the rest of this week are crazed but I hate to miss you guys! Expect more typos! :-(
No one believes a week is too busy for still seeking sanity to lob her endless volleys of insults and name calling, even with the typos.
Could it be that the partisan fever might be breaking just a tad? First noises from the Republicans that they learned their lesson about taking the economy hostage now a genuine bipartisan effort at immigration reform. Maybe the baggers are finally getting marginalized.
No Al, don't let the republican words on immigration fool you into thinking we now have bipartisan feeling amongst the powers that be in Washington. For the republicans, it is simply as McCain said, all about elections and what they hope to get from it. It is great that we will hopefully get some decent legislation to resolve this long standing problem, but that republicans and some democrats are supporting this is not out of any feelings of generosity, but pure political need. But we'll take it. Let's see how practical and generous they'll be on gun violence, taxes and revenues, womens' issues, gay rights, election reform and climate control....that's where the rubber will hit the road.
Gingrebread, I would consider an environment where it is 75-80% dysfunctional a vast improvement over the 100% dysfunction we had the past couple of years. They will not see things our way on the issues that you mentioned otherwise they would be Democrats. I think they are seeing that just being the Party of No has played out and they do need to compromise some. I also think with or without the Republicans, gay rights will be more or less a done deal by the time Obama leaves office. The tide is too strong there.
Gee Al, you don't sit the bar very high. However, I do get your point. The past is just that, hopefully the fear of the election will spur these people to move forward.
Baby steps Johntho, baby steps. After all, these are Republicans we are talking about.
For the republicans, it is simply as McCain said, all about elections and what they hope to get from it
Wow, that is just too good to pass up. And why exactly are the democrats so hot for immigration reform? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Because they care? Lol, they're after it only for votes.
At least be honest.
I believe that there are those in the Republican Party that still understand how government works in this country. I also believe that the last election has led them to believe that they can stand up against Grover Norquist and the TPs. I hope they are right. The TP has a history of taking out rational candidates in the primaries.
I fundamentally disagree with the Republican philosophy of government. I don't believe that government is bad. I don't believe that taxes are too high. I don't believe that being poor makes you evil or lazy.
I do believe that there are excesses and abuses on both sides of the aisle. And I wish, with all my heart, that both Republicans and Democrats would repudiate those who abuse their position. But I am not hopeful.
A long time ago, back in the 1930s, a lot of Jews broke the laws of Germany by sneaking out of the country and seeking refuge elsewhere. After the war, many criticized the Jews for not running away more quickly. But running away involved crossing borders illegally, and many Jews were reluctant to break the law. They died because they respected the law.
If I were living in a country where my children went to bed hungry and they had no access to education and no hope of a job when they grew up, I would do whatever it took to take them someplace where they would have a chance in life, and full bellies when they went to bed. One can criticize illegal immigrants, or understand their motives. We also need to have a better path to immigration and citizenship. When your children are going hungry, waiting eight years to immigrate is not an option.
Deport all Illegal Scum. Jail anyone who hires them.
The logistics argument against enforcing the law is bull----. If we can supply 200K soldiers halfway around the world for 7-10 years, keep them fed, supplied and equipped 365 days a year,
we can definitely give 10 million illegal scum a one way ticket home.
Chesty, by using a word like 'scum', even if you're not a bigot, imagine how that looks to somebody whose last name ends with a 'Z'. I mean, come ON, dude!
As for shipping them all out: I would like to commend to your attention a superb book called "Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin", by Timothy Snyder. The author gives a detailed and minutely sourced account of the forced emigrations undertaken by the Soviet government as far back as the 1920s, and by the German government right up to the final month of the war.
Even taking into account the total mobilization of the nation's transport assets, and the fact that very little concern was shown for the comfort, or even the survival of the deportees, the attempt to deport millions of Ukrainians and other nationalities before the war nearly broke Stalin; and the attempt to remove the Poles, Jews and Czechs diverted a huge portion of Hitler's available transport. Had those lorries and railway wagons been available for 'Barbarossa', he just might have taken Moscow!
Educate yourself, my Latino-insulting friend. Peace!
Chesty - sure you can. Please explain the logistics of getting 11 million people out of the country. Why don't we try a realistic approach making a pathway for citizenship to those who are not causing problems. To any who are trouble makers - a one-way ticket outta here!
1. Announce tomorrow any business with 1 illegal on the payroll will be indefinitely closed for investigation, and the owner imprisoned for a year per illegal. Watch all the firings.
2. Watch all the illegals start fleeing.
3. Go to every street corner in every major US city where illegals congregate hoping for a truck to pull up and hire them, and arrest all the illegals.
4. Arrest any illegals at any place of business
5. Ask anyone who cannot speak English for ID, those without ID should be checked for legal status. Illegals arrested.
5a. Optional step...deputize Sheriff Arpaio in Arizona as a US Marshal, have him run a prison camp for illegals down there, of 100 times the size he runs for his prisoners.
6. Get buses. Put illegals on buses. Empty buses in desert of northern Mexico, near a road if we feel nice, for all illegals who came from S of the border (most)
7. Put all illegals not from south of the border on planes, heading home.
Doesn't matter how long it takes, get started. You will be aided by all the illegals fleeing once the deportation starts, perhaps aided by the threat of seizing all illegals' property, if they're caught.
Much simpler than shipping all these soldiers off to Afghanistan, and figuring out ways to truck in millions of tons of supplies over Pakistani mountain ranges to keep them supplied. The illegals get a one way ticket.
Trotsky, don't worry comrade, the "scum" reference applies to illegals here whose last name ends with i, or n or anything else too. Yes, even if you're a Swedish swimsuit model here illegally, you get deported.
I believe during the past economic downturn, many illegals who could no longer find work packed up and "self-deported" themselves back home. Illegal immigration from Mexico, (but not all Latin American countries) has dropped dramatically because there are no jobs.
Whether one likes it or not, stopping the incentive for illegals to come or stay here is the solution to the problem. But nothing will ever be done about it. Obama is about to give 12 million illegals amnesty. That will dilute the work force, suppress wages and stabilize the gap between the rich and poor. And worse, like the 1986 amnesty did, it will send a powerful message: sneak into the U.S. and stay long enough and you will be given amnesty. Then there were 3 million. Now there are 4 times as many. In another 25 or so years, it will be 4 times as many, 48 million, getting amnesty again. History has a strange way of repeating itself.
OK, I see what you're getting at! All we need to do is declare an end to those very same freedoms that the N.R.A. and its minions are threatening to defend with military- style weapons, and basically turn the United States into a Soviet Union-style police state (except with Home Depot, Papa John's and Old Navy).
We'll turn everybody into either an informer or draft them into the police auxilaries (refer, again, to "Bloodlands" for a detailed description of how Hitler's apparatus of oppression co-opted the conquered people into brutalizing and enslaving their neighbours and relatives), and we'll have plenty of work for our unemployed law-school grads, as countless business owners file suit against the Federal government for illegally interfering with interstate commerce- and of course, the people who are citizens, but are deported unlawfully anyway are apt to be pretty hot about that.
Unless, of course, part of your brilliant and simple plan involves simply shutting down the justice system (which it would accomplish either way)?
Finally, I hope you have some kind of a domestic Marshall Plan in place to make up the billions of dollars in losses that American businesses are going to incur, and some notion of how we're going to feed everybody in the massive and widespread shortages of farm products* that will shortly and unavoidably follow.
Get back to me when you've got all that worked out, OK? I would have thought that somebody who's cribbed the name of a great American warrior for his handle would be familiar with the old saying: "Amatuers talk strategy. Generals talk logistics."
Peace (and maybe, in your case, a little logic wouldn't hurt)!
*Farm products: A category that includes pretty much everything that can be eaten- surely you don't think Dallas and Tampa are going to survive on pigeons and rats, do you?
Here is a better idea, deport all the liberals and keep the illegals. Really, this little love fest between these libs is nauseating. I hate to say it, but I think I liked it better when they are calling anyone who disagrees names. At least they are honestly wrong!
Just got back from 10 days in Tucson Arizona. We were within 20 miles of the Mexico border on a bird reserve. Could not enjoy ourselves because of all the border patrol. Helicopters flying overhead, four wheelers riding in the desert, dogs, horse patrol, patrol cars, check points constantly, it was like a war zone. I can only imagine what it was like at the actual border. Please do not tell me that a ton of money is not being spent keeping Mexicans out, as soon as they are picked up, they are taken right back. I will not say if it is good or bad, but please McCain do not complain that nothing is being done about this, it is an all out war with gun power. The men and women wear uniforms, pack huge guns, and let you know they are in charge.
Oh, hiya CT! Tell me, does that stand for 'Complete Tool'? You want to keep the illegals, that's cool- because, being a working tradesman from a farming family, I know for a fact that it's big employers and the very wealthy who gain the most out of illegal labor.
I would say, "Look it up!", but knowing as I do how you Reich-wingers view logic and facts with fear and loathing, I'd be wasting my time.
So tell me, Tool: Under what legal pretext do you propose to deport all Liberals, and to where? Let's see- you would have to start by taking away our citizenship, which I'm not even sure is possible to a natural-born citizen of natural-born parents. Are you going to start by trying to make it ILLEGAL to hold certain opinions? Is that what you people mean by 'defending freedom'? Or does that only apply to the freedom to be a belligerent, fear-stricken, idiotic tool of corporate oligarchy?
Why don't you and Chesty get together and try to work out a legal framework for your program of destroying everything that America stands for? Just a word of caution: Not everybody is going to go along with it, and some of us are in a position to RESIST.
FoxTrotsky..."Finally, I hope you have some kind of a domestic Marshall Plan in place to make up the billions of dollars in losses that American businesses are going to incur,..."
Sorry my friend, but some studies show a gain to the economy from illegals and some show a loss. Here is a fair assessment that addresses many of the studies. It concludes there is only a very slight benefit to economy overall:
Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States
What that means is, getting rid of the illegals will cause absolutely NO significant long term consequences for the economy.
Trotsky...."Why don't you and Chesty get together and try to work out a legal framework for your program of destroying everything that America stands for?"
Hhhmmm....I'm pretty sure one of the things America stands for is equality under the law. You know, we're supposed to be a land of laws. Apparently that equality does not apply to illegal aliens.
Oh no, we're not allowed to have different OPINIONS from the name calling, "I reported you, liberals" who castigate anyone who doesn't goosestep into thinking exactly like them. Notice they are on each and every single thread that's about gun control or illegal aliens...
Interesting to see how our elected officials are more interested in kissing the asses of illegals then representing the law abiding citizens of the country. Selling out for votes. Guess I will start deciding which laws I will follow and those I wont. Our government does not represent the people no longer. Anything for a vote.
I agree with you, Mako21...IT is time to call CONGRESS and OBAMA et al!!!!!!
Write or email everyone of your elected officials in DC and let them know they will not be re-elected if they vote for amnesty, also known as "comprehensive immigration reform".
Isn't it a shame how now that the politicians have devised their plan to grasp illegal immigrant votes, the pathetic U.S. media ignore all of the polls showing that Americans overwhelmingly oppose amnesty for illegals.
Not only is the media ignoring the public outrage, they are even publishing stories claiming taht allowing hoards of uneducated criminals into the country is an "advancement" despite the obvious detriments and the reality that many other industrialized nations require education and skill levels be met to gain entry to their nations.
To make it worse the unions are also now throwing their few remaining members under the bus in order to grab monthly dues from illegal paychecks.
"AFL-CIO chief vows ‘full-fledged campaign’ for immigration overhaul"
"White House officials cite robust support from organized labor—which at times in recent history has opposed giving the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants on U.S. soil a path to citizenship—as a key factor in their optimism about getting a comprehensive bill through Congress."
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/afl-cio-chief-vows-full-fledged-campaign-immigration-171525302--politics.html
Its official America, the meek have inherited (through spineless, power-obsessed politicians) what you once were.
Mako....I agree that it's so funny that certain congressional members suddenly now endorse immigration reform contrary to their former opposition. I'd say they figured out they stand to lose consistently as the world is a whole lot smaller. However, I will also note that immigration reform has been an issue for some time it just depends on which side of the isle you sit. Sadly, we tend to address issues well after the opportunity to make any difference. When demographics support a larger segment of our population's concerns are not being addressed who failed? Our elected representatives as they failed their first responsibility to the people regardless. This article is the difference between political ideology and politics pure and simple.
Since Obama wants to community organize every issue instead of leading & working directly with Congress, I propose that we do not need him at all...Let's just have a popular vote on major issues. This is all we are getting anyway.
NO! Giving amnesty to 12 million or more illegal immigrant (undocumented workers?) while those who have and are using the legal process must follow all the rules is NOT FAIR! And IMO... NOT good for the USA! I have seen many who have come here to the USA illegally NOT for work but to get free better health/medical care etc than they could get in their country and they do NOT WORK soo they are NOT undocumented workers!!...This while USA citizens are NOT able to get the medical care that they need!!! It is just wrong!Why?? Well, some years back there were many migrant workers in the USA (many not US citizens)..The laws of the uSA required that the employers ensure safe and healthy housing, water food, sanitation, medical care, and education for the children...The migrant workers would move from one employer to another and each employer in turn would provide and also handle documentation...Sooo what happened?? Well the employers found that they could hire undocumented workers and not meet the requirements to provide housing etc and thus save themselves money to be stashed in an offshore account...just pure greed..so now the USA taxpayer gets FUBARRED again by CONGRESS et al with this AMNESTY CRAP!! I am just not buying this crap that illegal immigrants elected OBAMA...Illegal immigrants are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO VOTE!! HELLO!!!
philly,
Part of the problem is that the legal path is so complex and prolonged. It can take eight years to move to the front of the line. That's an awfully long time to wait if your kids are hungry and your survival is in question.
Part of immigration reform needs to be about finding better and more efficient ways of moving people through the system. The other question needs to be about how many immigrants the country can absorb at any given time. There needs to be balance. There also needs to be a way to work with those people who need asylum from life threatening regimes or cartels. Telling someone who is threatened with torture or rape or death that they have to wait for assistance is ludicrous.
Some posters blow smoke like a conservative politician - Ryan, Cantor, Bachmann, McConnell, Boehner, Gingrich, Perry, Romney, McCain and their tongue-in-check supporters, like Norquist, Rove, Cheney, Limbaugh, Beck, Palin and so on - always trying to cloud over reality and rationalize their biased self-serving positions. To miss that Obama's support was mostly small contributions from millions of people while the Republicans contributions were mainly millions from single individuals making large contributions ($1M and up, like Adelson who even promised up to $100M) who seek to buy and control the party for their own interests, is simply ridiculous and self-defeating naiveté. Even now, with their changed heart on immigration, whether right or wrong, they again clearly demonstrate how their political ambitions are all that matter. The people are who should matter, the needs of the majority is what should motivate them, what is right or wrong for the 98% should be the issue but today's Republicans have come to be concentrated only for their political ambitions at any cost to the people and on just conning the people, to use and abuse them. They attempt to use the power, money and influence provided them by "the money", their strong supporters and masters, and just manipulate public opinion with their persistence and their propaganda - it didn't work with the hispanic voters so now the Republicans are changing their tune for them. That should be a lesson for the majority to not be controlled or divided by the organized efforts like the manipulation of the "conservative" Christian, the Swift-boat propaganda and the Tea Party movement, all initiated, paid for and directed efforts to move voters in that same single direction.
I don't advocate that the Democrats are without fault and being an ex-long-term Republican, never a Democrat, I would like to see a return of the Grande Ole Party with a conscience and concern for the people but I realize the only way that will ever happen now, is when they are firmly and totally rejected and then that the dominate control "the money" has over them proves ineffective - maybe the hispanics have started that movement.
Obama's "small contributions" were a few rich people sending in thousands of small debit payments.
The Dems always lost the number of contributors battle every election up till Obama, because the Repubs have more middle class, small business types who send in their $500, $1000 or whatever than Dems do.
Contrary to their "little guy" propaganda, the Dems count on a few thousand filthy rich liberals.
Under Obama, they just started illegally sending in lots of small donations online which require no check of identity or anything.
It's possible that a few thousand more black people sent in their little donation than normally do for Demo candidates, but, that's all there is to it. Rich people breaking the law and making many anonymous small donations online, or under fake names which don't have to be checked for that size of contribution.
There's a good article on this out there, how we really don't know anything about where those online donations come from........"The Illegal Donor Loophole"
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/08/the-illegal-donor-loophole.html
Also ABC reported that Obama got as many small donations as Bush did, percentage wise, of the total:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6329217&page=1
It was the American citizens who have elected politicians like you as their representatives, we'll then why don't we ask the same sets of individuals to make such decisions. Majority of Americans find your actions and words as un-truthful. Suppose you'd stop asking for our votes, will your Latino votes suffice???
If this immigration amnesty passes, USA will become divided, old ways vs. the new. I doubt if the party system will ever unite a majority--votes will be scattered, and perhaps a third pary system or multi party system will emerge. That is one way of changing Washington from the outside!!!
Welcome to the demise of an organized, march in lockstep GOP!! They are now the proverbial cat herd that the DEMS are always accused of being.
The GOP, with their Tea Farty Moron Faction and their non-existent command of fact and truth, and their aging, centrist faction at war with their own conscience between the right thing to do and what the TP-ers want,
are now irrelevant and nothing more than an impediment to progress and a deterrent to prosperity.
Time for them to GO!
On the contrary, we still control the House, have a big contingent of Republican governors, and are only six seats away from taking the Senate. I am glad we are going to be able to stymie any of Obama's socialistic agenda. .454 Casull rules!
Chris - each time one of you low IQ voters use the term "socailist" or "communist" in regard to our President, we know you have no clue- about anything!
looks like they're back...let the name calling game begin!! seekingsanitation at its best!!
I believe that this article and Obama are correct. The only way to change representation in Washington is from the outside. If you want to strike fear in the heart of a senator or congressman convince them they are not going to be re elected and will have to work like the people they preach to. Cantor, Ryan and the rest would claim to be Hispanic if they thought it would save their jobs or put them in control. It is amazing how pliable and reasonable they can be when confronting their own reality. It is just when they confront our reality that they can take a hard line. Not unusual at all for someone who depends on the public to make a living.
Well Ron, I have to agree with you somewhat. When Bush tried to pass amnesty (code worded "comprehensive immigration reform") it was quickly shot down because the representatives constituents let them know in no uncertain terms it wouldn't be tolerated. Clinton passed restrictions on guns without a lot of publicity, and when everyone got wind of it, their was an enormous backlash against the Democrats, by their own constituents, the next election cycle.
I have emailed all of my representatives in DC and let them know how I feel.
When Obama said that he meant power of people but Romney did not get it. They lost the election despite they cut voting hours, required voter ID, and now gerrymander for the future elections. GOP party still does not understand the power of people because they only listen to their own one sided news channels and misled by them.
Great read:
Culture of Corruption: Obama and His Team of Tax Cheats, Crooks, and Cronies
By Michelle Malkin
Amazing that people actually spend the time reading books to you! Hmmmmm And, I see you always pick fiction since factual books would totally bore you!
Michelle Malkin's awesome!
Top 3 Rightwingers
PLEASE read - “Illegal, but Not Undocumented“. www.cis.org/IdentityTheft (Center for Immigration Studies)
They have broken multiple laws!!!!!
“Welfare Use by Immigrant Households with Children”. “A Look at Cash, Medicaid, Housing, and Food Programs” www.cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011
Illegal is illegal!!!!! How dare any of you Politicians reward all of these illegal people!!!!!! It is your fault they are here in the first place. It is your fault you failed to enforce the laws of the Country. How dare you reward people for your failure to do your job. You have ruined this Country and LEGAL Citizens can not find work!!!!!! We should slam our open boarder door shut!!!!! Send all the illegal’s home, along with their drug cartels, their gangs and their drugs. Bring all our soldiers home and have them protect our Country, instead of someone else’s. What a failure you have turned out to be!!!!!!! I can guarantee you that if a legal Citizen of America could vote on this, we would all vote to deport ALL of the illegal’s. You are so not representing American Citizens, you so representing the illegal’s!!!!!!
This entire thing is a freaking slap in the face to all immigrants that came to this Country LEGALLY. These LEGAL immigrants spent a lot of hard earned time, money and effort to become legal citizens of America. These illegal’s have done absolutely nothing but break one law after another and you want to reward them for their effort to break laws!!!!!!!
All these Liberals love to hear themselves talk. Most of it is nonsense. Illegal immigration is a cancer in the United States. We should be cutting out the Cancer (ie deporting the illegal aliens), but our President seems to want to let this Cancer grow. Its a shame that President Obama is turning the United States into a 3rd world toilet.
Galactus 999....unfortunately you can't change a liberal. Delusional thinking and being a mental cripple is in their DNA.
Chris - what a sad little man you are - no ability to think but always able to spew your ignorance for all to see!
that's because most of the "libbies" here don't have any skin in the game, those that take but don't contribute. They don't care how these morons spend other people's money as long as their freebies keep rolling in.
Dotties girl - that old refrain is boring. Can't you come up with something original? Oh right - you've never had an origianl thought in your dense head! Totally stupid excuse for a human being!
What sad lives Seeking Sanity, Feisty, PatfromBoston, and the likes must lead. It must be heart breaking to them that they think they are making a difference with all their liberal hate speech. I just do this for entertainment, they actually believe in their cause as if any of them can make any difference at all.
Chris - no dear, you're good for a chuckle, nothing more. And, frankly, you're not even much of a chuckle - more a pitying laugh. But, we all understand what a loser you are. Carry on!
Seeking Sanity.....yes...a real loser.......5400 sf house, access to a Learjet 31A, Audi R8, beautiful wife, one kid at Georgetown, one kid at Pepperdine, on the board of two banks, etc etc etc.......yes, a real loser. Excuse me, how much does it cost to heat your double wide in the Winter?
Chris, You have to understand that Speeking Insanity apparently suffers from "Delusions of Adequacy". She gets her "jollies" by seeing how many nasty, disparaging remarks she can make about other views, all the time trying to convince you of her self-appointed intellectual superiority. LOL !! She has even tried to convince others she has an MBA from Duke !!
When she is losing a battle with you, she will tell you to go away. She bows at the altar of Obama and feels compelled to defend his every utterance, whether words from his mouth, a burp, a fart or whatever. She gives out bad tax advice and will tell you how to file your return after knowing virtually nothing about you !!!
Arrogance is her calling card. My belief is she is actually quite unhappy, never been married and probably never will be ..... thus the venom flows.
“In 1986 Senator Kennedy said, ‘This amnesty will give citizenship to only 1.1 to 1.3 million illegal aliens. We will secure the borders henceforth. We will never again bring forward another amnesty bill like this.”
Obama is trying to make a liar out of Ted. Oh...wait...I mean, a liar again....
And Chris is a Rhodes Scholar!! On the Internet, you can be anything you like. We are all super smart, attractive and rich. I wish all those gorgeous 19 year old girls would stop calling. I can only boink 3 of them at a time.
JimS.....too bad my life accomplishments are real....keep trying though, through hard work and sacrifice you can live the dream also.
I believe you. Why would you be telling the world that you are a Rhodes Scholar if it wasn't true? Have to go now. I have a blonde, redhead and brunette waiting at the front door. And they are all horny as hell.
We now know why Rhodes is an Obama hater. His taxes went up by 3% for anything over $450k (after deductions). And yet he does not pull his kids out of school because he is suddenly poor. He won't trade in his Audi for a Ford because he is suddenyl poor. And he won't move to China because he is suddenly poor.
Sure sucks to be him. He has sooo much to be angry about. I don't know how he does it? How does he refrain from blowing his brains out because the world is so unfair to him ? How does he manage to carry on?
I t must suck even more to be you ! LOL !! If you would put down the bong once in awhile, you might actually make some sense for a change .... and your eyes would not be so "bleary" !!
It's too bad you flunked out of drama school ... you and the drama "queens" would fit quite well together !
I think we can all agree that illegal is illegal. It is not a matter of definition or right or wrong. As a matter of principle I am against an illegal immigrant becoming a citizen. As a matter of practicality it is impossible to detain and deport all of them or even most of them so the question becomes how do you deal with it. You can stick your head in the sand and express it as a matter of principle or try to come up with a practical solution. In this political climate neither side is interested in seeking a practical solution to any problem. The same people that want them deported do not want to pay higher taxes to support the effort. Conservatives will eventually give in because if they don't they will continue lose elections. If there is one thing any political group hates as a matter of principle it is to be out of power.
" it is impossible to detain and deport all of them or even most of them"
We see that liberalism has gotten to your "can do" American attitude, what a shame. Amazing how easily some people are willing to throw the future of the nation in the ditch because of a relatively simple task.
It would take a few years but is easily doable. Offer a $1000 reward for every tip leading to deportation of an illegal and the problem would be resolved on short order, and would still be far less costly to taxpayers.
"Changing Washington from the outside"! Hmm, I wonder if liberals will ever admit what "changes" they really want to see. Based on their media and people like Feisty, I would imagine their change looks something like this:
1. Elimnate all guns from the hands of law abiding citizens.
2. Allow abortions for anyone, any age that wants one without their parents knowing about it.
3. Sex is no longer a dirty word, if a couple of middle schoolers want to, you should let them.
4. The National Debt will have to be paid off by successful people. You know, the ones that worked day and night to create a small business, did without, scrimped and saved to one day become successful. Yeah, those evil people.
5. Welfare will be changed to "income redistribution". No longer a stigma if you want to stay home and let the government take care of you. After all, you "deserve it".
6. Military! In this day and age, who really needs a "strong" military. A few drones and planes should do the trick.
7. Rights? Well, the government knows which "rights" are important and which ones aren't. If you speak the liberal language, your freedom of speech is secure, if not then we need to ostracize, demonize and otherwise remove that little freedom from your mouth.
8. Religion? It's okay if they stay inside their little churches but don't talk about your beliefs in public, don't mention them on government grounds and keep your god tucked away in your nifty little bible. Unless it's a Koran, then we want to hear from you because anything that destroys Christianity is a good thing.
9. Taxes? Well, if you can afford to pay them then we'll make you pay but if you can't then those that pay will make up the difference because after all, every successful person is just a greedy pig and it's the governments job to lead them to slaughter. Unless of course you are a Hollywood elite, a politician or a person who supports liberal causes, then we'll look the other way and pass laws to give you a pass.
10. Immigration? Let them all in, it can't hurt and hopefully all these "new" cultures will finally break the backs of these "God fearing, gun toting, apple pie, Chevrolet loving Americans who are still clinging to the idea that "America is the greatest country on earth".
lukewarm......great post....I think you covered it!
lukewarm 1,2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 , 10 - totally idiotic and of course you know it or if you don't you're even more of a simpleton than your post shows. 3 - so to you sex is a dirty word. How pathetically sad that you continue to live in the 18th century. And, how very fitting that someone who has to put "Rhodes Scholar" after their name agrees with a half-baked lunatic like you! #4 - since everyone I know works or had worked and retired, your point again is nothing but lunacy. You truly need to seek professional help for your diminished mental capacity!
B-I-I-A-A-A-T-T-T-T-C-C-C-C-C-H-H-H-H-H-H-H ALLEEEEEERRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTTT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great post lukewarm ... really good ! Expected a liberal venom attack to flow !!!!!!!!!!!!
SeekingSanity is still seeking sanity..... what an IDIOT!
lukewarm is guilty of taking some viewpoints to their logical extreme. Truth is, there are already some liberal extremist that believe exactly as he wrote in many of his points.
And of course SeekingSanity is correct that the vast majority of liberals do not think/believe in those extremes. And of course not every conservative thinks/believes in the extremes that some other conservatives do. And it is undeniable that some liberals attempt to paint every conservative that way. Feisty being perfect example.
Extremes? Who would hav thought 40 years ago that society would condone gay marriage and abortions at will.
THAT my friends is what we call the slippery slope!
lukewarm, if you really believe that any part of the public believes what you have outlined then there is no wonder there will not be any political peace. I am to the right of center on some things and to the left of center on other things. I am a veteran who is self employed and pay taxes. I can feel and vote any damn way I please without yours or any other liberals or conservatives permission, understanding or tolerance.
Ron - and I'm just guessing here but I'll bet you DON'T believe sex is a dirty act?
@ Seeking
Why that question? Why do I get the impression that you believe everyone must belong to a political party? Namely the Democratic Party, and anyone who doesn't belong to that party or any party has nothing to say.
he changed it alright...he ruined it...there will be nothig left when hes done
hahahahahahahahaha great job america
I agree, you cannot change Washington from the inside! President Obama was shown that light this last election. Now the Republicans are starting to see the light. I only hope they continue to, or else they will lose more and more, till they become totally irreverent! We need, and must have a two party system for checks and balances!
This immagration business, getting something done now, is too little too late! These immagration laws should have been enforced starting back with Raygun! Government became too lax on immagration laws. Now look at where we are at, too many to deport! Should we grant them amnesty? HELL NO!!! Should we give them a chance to become a citizen? HELL YES!!! However, we must do this right. Make them get in line behind the one's who are trying to do it right! Make them pay back all the assistance they have been given, to include food stamps, wellfare, medical, etc. etc. If they have a job, make them pay back all of the taxes owed. Then they can get their green card.
Our very own government is to blame for all of this! We should require them to do all the work to get every one of those illegals documented. That would show em!!! LOL! A politician actually doing work? Now thats funny!!!
Obama will offer his own proposal just to put in jeopardy the BIRARTISAN Plan on the table. It will be soooo faaar Leeeeft that the Republicans will reject it. At that point he will vilify Republicans, the MSM will parrot his talking points and NOTHING WILL GET DONE. That's "mission accomplished" according BHO.
The question is – will he announce “Mission Accomplished” from a battleship?
Open the borders! We need more low income wage earners to support SS/Medcaid. There are many white people who will be retiring in the next 20 years. It is an American birthrite to retire and die in style (think sandy beaches). As for the rest.........well, there just won't be much left to write home (the old country) about; the Chinese will have Power of Attorney and will administrate from the deck of an aircraft carrier in Chesapeake Bay. Who's going to stop them?
The Octopus Commission, Snake Eating Tail … not an improvement.
1) Border Security - Very similar to the wars Americans love to get into and have fought, except in this case they won’t be able to declare victory and can't go home.
The poison pill is obvious it's like the local NRA supporting Sheriff, there are no guns that don't need to be out matched by better guns, no border will ever be enough of a border, and there is no security that will ever be good enough. The fence is on the wrong side of the border, the US is yielding territory.
:: Since this criteria cannot be satisfied, this plan and no other plan can go forward based in the 'the southern border states commission".
2) Undocumented Immigrants in the U.S. - Senators could recommend civics lessons to Senators as well as US Citizens.
Poison Poll #2 When is a solution not a solution? So if we slow legal immigrants we speed up illegal immigrants? "… after every legal immigrant receives their green card AND speaks English, AND registers AND pays penalties AND pays back taxes AND undergoes background check; will an undocumented illegal immigrant be eligible… "
Senator Rubio: "In negotiations, he may have pushed the group to accept the stricter border enforcement policies in exchange for agreement on this point." Negotiations generally mean that you take something and you give something, but in clever man's case, you take something and you take something more. So if 1) cannot be satisfied and 2) cannot be satisfied the Senators proposal in reality says No twice.
3) Dreamers and Agricultural Workers - Then there is the proof needed that "no American was available for the job". This easily countered by finding one, just one who will, thus this becomes a green card trap. Coming to the US is thought of as way of self-improvement so what makes you think they would remain agricultural workers for long? A true dream would be to work on automated robotic equipment to plant, cultivate and to harvest crops. Who's going to finance this education (farm corporations, I jest?), why would want to provide so many college graduates with no job, as is currently done (again I digress)? And why are business so dependent government munificence, laws regulations (while complaining so)? Military service for young people is too expensive (for lots of reasons, Eh?); why not just send young people to the farms and fields for agricultural service (never mind the Chinese)?
4) New Immigrants - It's not exactly the best idea to import the best and the brightest from the rest of the world. It deprives the rest of the world from the talent they need (then they may need tour of the US to learn its failures first hand).
It does not address the problem of 'not addressing' the 'talent crisis', for American citizens, who for undiscovered reasons don't succeed in education or employment to become technologists, scientists, engineers or mathematicians (STEM). No one knows why most educators are unaware of this STEM for non-Americans only phenomena, they have to fess up. (They are all English majors?)
Since these proposed changes are, in part designed to increase or speedup or reduce backlogs, by the reason implied in the statement 2) above, "… after every legal immigrant receives their green card will an undocumented immigrant be eligible… ", it means that no illegal immigrant can ever be more that a green card holding agriculture workers, waiting in line.
Then the EB-5 program i.e., "Different: President Obama pitched an idea called “Start-Up Visa.” Foreign entrepreneurs build new businesses in the U.S. with backing by American investors. If they flop, they pack up and head home. If the company succeeds, they’ll win a ticket to remain permanently." This essentially says foreign owned business first, Americans second, this says a lot, if can listen?
Senators who have led the charge to get government out of government and business WANT to measure the ebb and flow of the economy and have the POWER to cap visas. The same 'Senate' group that only uses new unemployment claims, does not want to measure unemployment, under employment and employments that makes no sense; so that we don’t know what might cause trouble for Senators running for office? It cannot be left unsaid that Senators really do want power, they really like power, but they have to acknowledge that fact AND with that power Senators want to control business, control the economy, control their campaign donors, control their lobbyist. (A historian might well see the comparison between Roman Senators who had their own spy networks and commanded their own armies.) (A Constitutionalist would have to trace the power of the Senate to the unique ability granted to make its own rules, written or unwritten and processes that would not see the light of day.)
5) Employment Verification - This system is implemented using the social security number. For the purposes of discussion, this is or is not a national identity system. It might well benefit to be upgraded for theft and fraud. However (just complaint really) if an employee works for more than one employer and W-2 withholdings overlap, then the worker might pay too much Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid (not that bad). The employer discovering this; might not understand that their employee has a second job (needs one), might not like this fact and you can see that the employee might not want it known. Well know W-2 laws concerning workers classifications are much more damaging to the economy than we are led to believe. So at the very least employees must give permission and also should be notified when their employment information is being used. The twenty something year old human resources professional own the keys to your wealth and happiness.
The Senators claim to want criminal penalties, to sound tough, but lawyer see profit in civil proceedings.
The land rush proposal, does not exactly encourage 100% participation; think about using certain punishment to encourage confessions?
6) Same-Sex Families - Can we get the Senate out of our families? Apparently not, it is reasonable assumption to consider a couple, but impossible to assume away a marriage of convenience.
As you should be able to see by fully implementing this proposal, nothing much would change. If it passed it would fail to work, and because the President endorses it; it be can become cover for the dysfunctional Senate to protect the dysfunctional Senate under the guise of "well we couldn't get the votes' from the dysfunctional Senate. And while we are at it the irate irrational public might not forget that it was passed in the first place.
I can only suggest that the multiple of players get together, media and advocates and write a more coherent bill, where the facets of immigration are clarified and the relationship to the larger economic concern are treated in complementary fashion.
1- Immigration …
2 - Jobs …
3 - Education …
4 - English …
5 - Agriculture …
6 - Ventures …
7 - Families …
8 - Fortitude …
The Octopus is a very, very clever animal, and quite the noteworthly escape artist!
Fix the Filibuster, or ship it to a foreign country.
Do you hear that giant flushing sound? It's the sound of the teabagger republicans swirling down the toilet to join the Whigs and The Know Nothing Party in the sewage of history.