become law in the state. In addition, another Republican state senator in Virginia today said he also was against the change.

For those too lazy to look it up, Ralph Smith is the unnamed guy in this "no stone unturned" story.

vaginal Bob will change his mind when he thinks nobody's watching.

Guess the Gov realized you can only 'probe' so far.

I believe Electoral College reform is in order, and part of that reform is doing away with state winner-take-all. But for this to be truly meaningful and fair it would have to be enacted in all 50 states. That this attempt at limited "reform" appears to be opposed by governors to whose states it would apply is a good thing.

C'mon, my left o'center friends, admit it - there is hope for a healthy Republican party!

Well VP Bob for now is doing the right thing.

It will be interesting to see if the Governor's in MI, PA & OH follow suit and declare it the "power grab" it is..?

Sorry, badly worded - I should have said "a governor" rather than "governors."

The check hasn't cleared yet.

Lil

this "no stone unturned" story.

FR linked to the info and I am sure that The Roanoke Times is pleased.

Mark in SoCal

C'mon, my left o'center friends, admit it - there is hope for a healthy Republican party!

You can rent the Hope and Change signs at a discounted cost ...

Hi, Mark!

Hope things are well with you! The real hope of the Republican Party lies with Gov. Christie. If he continues to speak out when the Republican Party leadership crosses the line into fringe, zealot like behavior, he may be able to begin to pull them back to some sort of rational thought.

That is, if they don't expel him from the party first.

I hope Christie does continue to speak out, I have some hesitation about him since I don't like his bullying behavior with constituents when he gets challenged. He could be a formidable candidate if he is able to control that.

It doesn't serve the nation to not have two, well functioning parties. We need the party out of power to act like the loyal opposition, NOT as obstructionists. I guess I have to hope the Republican Party will begin to remember their roots.

Have a good weekend, Mark!

Mark,

Your suggestion would make null and void MAJORITY rule. Rural districts are less populated thus your suggestion would give them a greater voice in elections.

If every district had fully equal the number of citizens then it could work but would be nearly the same as a nationwide popular vote.

STOP THE PRESS!....

Pizza Man....Herman Cain says will will NOT (shock) NOT run for the senate seat vacated by Chambliss!

..I was so looking forward to the return of Pizza Man and his women!

Anyone for a crossover ???

We are not the United Congressional Districts of America! I hope we get rid of the electoral college altogether - we need One Person, One Vote . . . and . . . .

Hillary! :-)

Direct National Election. Period, end the electoral college completely.

chilled -

"My attention is laser focused on exposing the economic pain and suffering to come from a second Obama term, part of which is via my new nationally syndicated talk radio show that is finishing its first week on the air,” he said".

http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/25/herman-cain-explains-why-he-wont-run-for-georgia-senate-seat/

Translation: "I can do a lot more damage being a radio talk show host where those pesky little things like truth and facts don't get in the way! Not to mention make a lot more money! And work even fewer hours! And by the way.....999!!!"

Damn, I love it when the left goes crazy when the Republicans talk about changing something. Most of the liberals should read the Washington Post article, which FR failed to do. This change of counting Electoral Votes was actually the DEMOCRATS idea. This from the Washington Post article: "The bill in Virginia isn’t the first time that such a measure has come up. In fact, several have been introduced over the past decade, all with the same rationale of giving more say to voters on the losing side. The only difference is that those bills were submitted by Democrats, back when they weren’t having as much luck in the state in presidential elections."

newday,

Hi! I agree about Gov. Christie. A good weekend back at ya.

Dennis,

Certainly EC reform would need to consider the re-assignment of electors and districts - say, create districts especially for presidential elections - the present system would indeed give lower-populated areas an unfair edge in the event of independent electors. California is a great example, but as a Californian I get tired of being margialized in Presidential elections. Would like to see some changes. I am not in favor of just a simple popular vote.

BCWC -

Thanks for the suggestion but thinking it through any discount on Hope and Change signs would be negated by the need to replace the picture of Mr. Obama with one of Mr. Huntsman. And I am afraid Mr. Huntsman would not look nearly as cool in Shepard Fairey graphics as Mr. Obama does.

Mark,

Then for you the best answer is a National Popular Vote so that everyone feels like their vote counts not just the small group of us that live in swing states.

I would truly love to see less political adds here – Columbus was in the top 5 cities for the number of adds last fall.

I know the democratic party is progressive but this particular law would be regressive and dishonest. If the republican party has to resort to stealing elections like they did in 2000 and 2004 then it is not the party of Lincoln nor does it have any chance of holding power for very long. We need fair and open elections in this country and the electoral college has worked well as both parties have been elected to the presidency in the past and I am sure that the economy will need to be slowed down again so another republican may get elected some day.

Johntho - Read my post at 1.17, this was first proposed by DEMOCRATS.

Johntho,

You have to question why the Republicans even pursued something that they were sooo very upset
about when the Dems brought it up briefly in 2004.

this was first proposed by DEMOCRATS

While a deciding Republican was away attending an inauguration?

These RWNJ's are nothing more than thieves in the night...

STUFF your false equivalency!

United States of America !!!

Crossover to -------United Congressional Districts !!!

What is the Republican party going to do next ????

The story within the story today is that the GOP has tipped their hand with an affirmation that they do indeed want to pretend to believe in science when it suits them after all...

When you have an object, let's just call it a "constitchency" and the known constant is that it cannot be made larger and is in fact shrinking at a known rate, the only way to make it have more weight is... You guessed it!!!... Greater density!!! Oh, the irony! Science is fun!

It's still science without foresight though, because when followed to its logical conclusion the experiment itself implies a desire for a finer, more accurate electoral measuring process. This mid-way science, still tainted by gerrymandering, is not clean science and therefore does not deliver a scientifically based "clean" solution... To extract the influence of all known variables in the experiment (required) and achieve a result that can be supported unilaterally and repeatedly, you must take the further step and heed the results of the popular vote.

You were just looking for fairness weren't you?

Feisty - Still having a problem with reading I see. If you read my post, which quotes the Washington Post, you would see that it has been proposed SEVERAL TIMES OVER THE PAST DECADE, all proposed by DEMOCRATS.

newday - I fully expect Christie to become an Independent. I don't believe he will EVER fit with the radicals who have hijacked the Republican party. No sane individual fits in there anymore. It will be interesting to see what the next two years bring.

I am less and less interested in what RWNJ's have to say, when the real republicans throw them out of the party maybe what they have to say will be relevant to me. Until then. Pffffft.

Still having a problem with reading

Gomer,

Still confusing me with someone else I see! lmao@u

I hope Christie does continue to speak out, I have some hesitation about him since I don't like his bullying behavior with constituents when he gets challenged. He could be a formidable candidate if he is able to control that.

I wish I could share your enthusiam for that bloated mafioso. He needs to control his overeating if he wants to be viable in 2016.

Some in the GOP swing states realize that changing the Electoral College system would end their swing state status and the money and influence that goes along with it. Maybe "Governor Vaginal Probe' has seen the light?

"The governor does not support this legislation. He believes Virginia's existing system works just fine as it is. He does not believe there is any need for a change,"...

Seriously.. he REALLY said that? I think I'll wait for the other foot to drop before I pass judgement.

Wow, there ares till some sane moderate republican rather than all the right wing terrorist types that seem to be outspoken for it!

Wait til his signsture is on the veto if it gets to him. he is known for saying one thing to the press and doing the opposite.

Well now! Maybe the Ghosts of "Nelson Rockefeller" and "Jacob Javits" are moving among the least of these thieves, bringing 'em epiphanies of hope through honest and fair endeavors. One can only hope. McDonnell will be better thought of in a much broader company if He perseveres. Likewise Senator Smith.

It always leaves the American People with a good feeling when the voice of reason prevails.

It just goes to show what CROOKS the GOP has become..... They will do anything to WIN..... Truely a Group of Domestic Terrorist.....

The major snag with reforming the electoral college system is that the gerrymandered district boundaries would first have to be cleaned up. There are all sorts of ways of doing this and many easy to use computer models, but the chances of agreement on fair re-districting are less than zero. I suspect both parties are guilty of this sort of fraud.

sfcret

You are absolutely correct. AND that is why the fonding fathers came up with the Electoral College. You know, the Constitution has worked for 200 + years so I just wish we would let it stands as it is.

Over the years the intolerant left has tried many shady things themselves, one most recent was implementing the stupid "fairness doctrine". As far has the Electoral College change I'm sure when it suits them they will scream for it again.

I guess two people up there have a little common sense....good for them......What those idiots did should be criminal.

Is it true Peggy Noonan says women who were raped, who gets an abortion should be sent to prison for tampering with evidence? Did I hear that correct?

Does anyone remember how G.W.B. Jr. won his first election, the good old boys did a good job stealing the election from Al Gore and look what we got, one of the biggest messes in history !

Stealing elections is GOP job #1 for a better party !

It will be interesting to see if the Governor's in MI, PA & OH follow suit and declare it the "power grab" it is..?

Don't know about the other two, but if Snyder wants to have any chance at being re-elected to a second term, he's best served by using extreme caution in Michigan. He pissed a lot of folks off by his signing the right to work bill and gets booed and jeered everywhere he goes. Jennifer Granholm may not have been the most popular governor in our state's history, but she sure had much more respect than this corporate goon will ever have.

Mark SoCal.,

So you would be satisfied to change the Electoral College so that a system where even when Obama won by 5,000,000+ the new system would make Romney the President? How disgusting and Preibus says the party will now represent all the people! More of the Nazi like Voter Surpression only now made worse by the party who fails to represent America and Americans: Only their self interest1

just more proof that the Republican's new mantra is "if you can't beat 'em, cheat 'em!" But hey, not too worry. They have a new bestest buddy in the Senate named Harry Reid.

The republicans have just given us another reason to hate them even more! Vote grab and quest for power is limitless in the republican party!

VA Goppiggies answering Jindal's call to stop being the stupid party by becoming the criminal party. Well, maybe not exactly "becoming."

Mark in SoCal

C'mon, my left o'center friends, admit it - there is hope for a healthy Republican party!

There is still hope for a healthy Republican party, but it starts with the current party rejecting the fascists that have taken the party over and replaced conservatism with radicalism.

I disagree with the Governor on this. Too often, in Maryland and Virginia the regions surrounding the Capital Beltway dominate in federal elections and do not speak to the needs and desires of the rest of the state. In the rest of the country - urban areas tend to determine winners and those in other parts of states are left out - feeling unrepresened. Is it any wonder then, that a vast majority of Americans do not view our current President as one that speaks to their needs or views? That their is a growing sense of "he's not MY President"? Add that to the fact that the President's party did their best to marginalize their votes by challenging ANY voter ID laws that states tried to enact, and I completely agree with these folks.

Dewey/Cheatem

and How!

lorielle,

As a former republican I want to let you know that I no longer think that that party I used to belong to represents America or AmeriCans. rather their own self interest, the rich, businesses and corporations!

When Goldwater and Reagan appear to be moderates or liberals by today's republican nut case right wingers I left!

Lorielle,

You clearly do not believe in our founder's ideals and that is the MAJORITY rule.

Over 50% of our population lives in just 20% of counties in the USA

I can never Vote for a party that is happy to adopt the sentencing of we their employers as trickle down dogs under the table That was a role set for us by a second rate movie actor and I resented that role.Now some of you ,who where happy with that role do not consider yourselves truly represented by the party who ,even though they,like their opposition,over indulge the super-rich,at least screw us,their employers ,in a nicer way. Well too bad! I hated the dog role,but had to reluctantly accept it.Now you lot should give it a rest and do the same. You have no pride in yourselves to happily want that role.Shame on you!

The real hope of the Republican Party lies with Gov. Christie. If he continues to speak out when the Republican Party leadership crosses the line into fringe, zealot like behavior, he may be able to begin to pull them back to some sort of rational thought.

Gov. Christie will appeal to the moderates/undecided. If he could win the primaries, he'd have a very real shot a winning the presidency. The problem is that he'll never get past the hardcore right wing of the GOP. To them, rationality is a character defect. In the last election, former Gov. Jon Huntsman, an educated, well-traveled, rational candidate was forced to drop out of the primaries early while Bachman, Cain, Gingrich, etc... were all able to continue for a long time.

Governor Christie is a walking health hazard to the office of the president!

It isn't that McDonald opposes this strategy. It's just that he fears a public backlash more and doesn't want his fingerprints anywhere near it.

The Electoral College is just fine. After every election we hear the losing side complain and talk about changes but nothing ever happens, except political posturing. The people need to get out and vote, I think it's a that we have such a low turnout on election day.

I hope now that those eligible to vote will register and get the proper government issued ID, if necessary, to vote. There is no reason now for those in states that have voter ID laws to get them in the next 18 or so months.

GO 49ERS, WIN YOUR 6TH SUPER BOWL

Virginia Governor Bob "Vaginal Probe" McDonnell said the same thing about the vaginal probe, and then of course signed it when it reached his desk. He is a LIAR, who actually loves anti-democracy machinations as long as it is under the radar and/or repercussions are calculated to be manageable.

The REAL reason some Teapublicans in leadership are not sticking their necks out on the electoral college issue, is because of legality/constitutional barriers, in which there is uncertainty this diabolical garbage could even survive. Let's not forget the intent versus the insincere words...

Whether Big Government infringement on privacy and forcing women (and doctors) to undergo unnecessary medical probes against their will, for which they are forced to pay for the procedure, or gaming and rigging the system at every opportunity against voter rights.

These rightwing douche-bags have NO respect for the constitution or democracy -- It is only holier- than-thou lip service. And they will continue their Tyranny of the Minority with filibusters in the Senate and not bringing bills for a vote in the House, gerrymandering, voter suppression, emergency dictatorships, etc.

I can't impress upon folks enough how important the 2014 mid-term is. There are many Democratic Senate seats up for re-election, not to mention state legislators (and why some Dems were hesitant to reform the filibuster).

President Obama's reelection was SO important, but if the silent majority does not like the rightwing shenanigans, they have to speak up -- Get out the vote!

Dennis, Columbus, Ohio -- It is mind-bending that conservatives don't get the most basic things about our Republic form of democracy:

It is one person one vote NOT representation by square footage (other than the House versus Senate that already protects small states, but this is still based on population not land mass). And more to the point, not representation by square footage ONLY in cherry-picked states.

Even if they skipped civics in high school, come on, how stupid does a person have to be to fall for this tripe? Teapublicans -- Stop being the Stupid Party.

This change of counting Electoral Votes was actually the DEMOCRATS idea.

It wasn't a good idea then, either. If you've truly been following the story, then you know that no proposal by Democrats ever got out of committee or had much chance of becoming law.

In this case, Republicans were taking advantage of gerrymandering at the state and federal level to render majority vote meaningless. This from the same gang that carps endlessly about election fraud.

I'm no friend of the Electoral College: I'm a staunch Democrat, but I'm the first to admit that something is off when the winning presidential candidate gets a majority of electoral votes with 15 states. The answer is to eliminate the Electoral College altogether, not something sneaky and seamy.

listorie,

Employers greed has 5 mane with the same name and same /Social Security # working at a local foundry and the employers greed prevents them from reporting them. The same foundry just took away health insurance for their workers so don't tell me employers give a D. Greed not caring is the main goal of employers!

Since we no longer send an electorate on horse back with a bunch of votes to Washington to decide elections, why not just go with the popular vote? This can easily be accomplished with technology for every election, except Florida of course.

I am all for the popular vote. Let each voice be heard.

But this thing about the GOP changing the electoral college just so they have a better chance of winning. LOL

Way to go, Gov. McDonnell, for having the guts to stand up and say you are against it.

I wouldn't mind having special issues (like gun control) put to the popular vote as well. If our elected officials cannot agree on these things, or are afraid of losing their seats if they follow their conscience, then let the people decide.

sfc,

and you know why? Because Bush stole the 2000 election. Democrat support of these kinds of bills were in reaction to the Supreme Court's decision to appoint Bush as president since Florida could not get it's @!$%# together.

There is no parallel here in this election except for the losing part. Obama won it fair and square with out any back patting from the SCOTUS. The only reason it is coming up now is because some of the Republicans are bitter about losing, again, to Obama; that is all it is.

For the record any Democrat who also supported this type of legislation was an idiot. There is a reason we have the electoral college, to keep the balance of power from being swayed by those states with larger populations. States like Mississippi and Alaska are farts in the wind compared to New York, California, and Texas in terms of population. Their votes would count as well.

With the EC their votes count equally, or at least more than they would otherwise, since the EC is how we elect presidents.

Geowill,

For the record any Democrat who also supported this type of legislation was an idiot. There is a reason we have the electoral college, to keep the balance of power from being swayed by those states with larger populations. States like Mississippi and Alaska are farts in the wind compared to New York, California, and Texas in terms of population. Their votes would count as well.

You are correct as far as the reason for the Electoral College, it original intent of the founders was one district one vote, some wished it to be mandated in the constitution that those votes be counted as individual votes, some wanted the individual states to chose how those votes were apportioned.

States choice won out.

The first presidential election was run on a one district one vote basis, although it really didn't matter much Washington was virtually appointed by the people as the first president with Adams a distant second becoming Vice President. The same happened with Washington's second election.

The third election, the first in which political parties had a major hand, was decided differently. Most of the states had decided that their political power was greater if they massed their electoral votes and voted en-block, and the individual legislatures created rules to effect such.

Apportionment was a huge issue back in the first days of our country, the powers that be won that debate way back then.

I perfect example that the political situation of today isn't much different than the political situation 220 years ago.

In today's world both parties decry the electoral college and the en-block method of apportionment of electors when they lose an election, and when one party puts together a string of victories these ideals of reverting to district apportionment comes up from both sides.

En-block apportionment aides the wealthy political power brokers and makes a few states more politically powerful that most of the rest. In the current political environment it is a huge boost to democrat election prospects, because the democrats concentrate their power in those power centers.

District apportionment, would eliminate the political power brokerage, and make the individual district supreme. This would have the effect of bringing back the electioneering campaign, forcing the candidates to campaign all over the country instead of just a limited few "Swing" states, One Vote, One District is what we have today, with the ability of the state to decide who we vote for based on arbitrary political rules......

I believe the founders had it right, the power should rest with the people, and when it rests with the political forces we have less representation.

District apportionment gives the power to the people, is what I agree with and should be what every American who agrees with representative republicanism should demand. Any movement to break the power of the political party over choosing who leads us is good for the people....

The Electoral College is an outdated way of choosing the President and most Americans are uncomfortable with the idea. If the Republicans start tinkering with it to give themselves a permanent advantage so that the popular vote is rendered meaningless, I think we'll see some real movement to reform it. As it is we USUALLY get an electoral winner that is the same as the popular winner, so there has been no great impetus to change it. After W stole the election of 2000 and fraudulently garnered more electoral votes, even though he LOST the popular vote, we began hearing calls for it to be changed, but they soon died out. If every election were to result in a Republican electoral victor while the Democrat won the popular vote because the system had been deliberately structured that way, then the outrage of 2000 would be miniscule in comparison. I really think we need to go to a direct popular election and let the person who receives the most number of votes by the winner.

The only HONEST way to have a vote would be to have no college period and each vote cast for a president of choice by the people.

That way it would be democratic and citizens would not be back biting and maybe just maybe become united.

Both Dems and Repub's would have to work and not piff the peons off.

I'll believe it only when he vetoes it or refuses to sign it and it dies.

So, it is don't touch the 2nd amendment but it is OK to throw out the whole 12th and 23rd amendment. Is only the 2nd sacred?

Maybe he should try for the 22nd amendmentObama would like it. He could become another FDR from the 20th century.. The only great demmocrat we had in the white house was JFK and Probably a lot of you out there now don't even know who he was!!!!!

This idea from Republican leaders, to award Electoral College Votes by Congressional district rather than "winner-take-all" in the states, would indeed have given Mr. Romney the 2012 Presidential Election (if their math is accurate).

But nevertheless Mr. Romney would have still LOST the POPULAR VOTE of the American people by 5 MILLION VOTES!

How would such a thing reflect the will of the American people, if their votes are shown to be entirely meaningless?

Why doesn't the Republican Party instead spend some time on introspection, examining their own message, and asking themselves how it helps the interests of the party (and the country) to alienate entire demographic sectors of the American Electorate because of the party's extreme and intolerant message of exclusion?

If the Republican Party would try to make their message appealing enough to a significant majority of Americans, they could win national elections without using gerrymandering and trickery to get around the "inconvenience" of the expressed will of the American people on election day.

I guess that voter suppression deal exploded in their faces so it's back to the drawing board. The Republican's new way to win is ----

• If you can't beat 'em, cheat 'em!!

JoAnne :) way too True !!

A Real smart cookie.......Not

And if I'm not mistaken, that would be the same Jill Vogel who cleverly introduced that whole vaginal probe debacle in Virginia in the first place. Nice to see there are still politicians out there who actually learn from their mistakes instead of doubling down on them.....

Maybe she is trying to prove that you can partially fix Stupid.

lol, partially fix Stupid

Wow That's impressive, I didn't expect that at all.

Yea, your right Feisty.

s/b "you're right Feisty"

Feisty - it will be interesting to see how this goes. And, myvote - some Stupid you just can't fix!

Point of order. You do realize that Maine and Nebraska already apportion their Electors as this proposal in more states suggests? I am neither defending or denouncing the system. Just presenting the fact that currently not all states are winner take all. Every few years other states consider it. Given the Constitution leaves the decision to the individual states, it makes for a repeating debate.

I support getting rid of the electoral college completely.

I believe that would require a Consitutional amendment. 3/4 vote in both houses, signed by President and then ratified by States. Would take years.

@StP13...The difference between Nebraska and Maine, is that the 2 additional at-large electors go to the candidate who won the popular vote in the state. The Virginia law would give the 2 at-large electoral votes to the candidate who won the most districts. Therefore it wouldn't be representative.

Been wondering if we hadn't the electrorial college we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now would we ?? Bush wouldn't have been President in 2000 Gore would have won !!

BOTO: I'm agree! The ELECTORIAL COLLEGE should be thrown out and have a popular vote then each state would have more people come out to vote. The Electorial College was created because as many as 35% in some states weren't allowed to VOTE. But they were counted anyway. I believe in one person one vote. What some of these GOP states are trying is LEGAL,but it,s so sleezy. If you can't win change the rules!! Give most of AMERICANS a reason to vote for your candidate.

The main issue with their idea is that congressional districts don't properly represent population due to severe gerrymandering. If you wanted to split electoral votes between candidates, it should split based upon the percentage of the state population. Then it could be argued as more fair. However, splitting based upon congressional districts will lead to many situations where a party can win without a majority. This will be even worse then it is now due to the electoral college.

"I support getting rid of the electoral college completely."

Had that been in place in 2000, Bush would have never been president, 9/11 probably would not have happened, the borrow and spend Republican congress would not have been able to spend so much, the Iraq war would not have happened and the Bush depression would not have happened. Perhaps getting rid of the electoral college completely isn't a bad idea.

cynic - all this "rig the election" feels a lot like their buddies who rigged the financial markets and caused the 2008 crash.

All this is NOT going over big with Independents, I can tell you that -

You are pining for a Meritocracy? Watching some Starship Troopers are you?

bob douglas - well of course you don't. Your post is one of the most idiotic I've seen in a very long time. But, I'll bet you're all for everyone being able to own a gun, right?

Oh, and a clue, if you kick out the low-information voters no Republican will EVER get elected again!

Bob, Besides being a meritocracy as was already pointed out, your post assumes more than a few things... Such as that Federal service of some sort, owning a business, or community involvement somehow creates informed voters... Further, you seem to have completely missed the fact that low information voters are often cultivated intentionally as such. People that don't bother to know what's up are often just steered around by the prodigious use of the fear tactics.

You missed the "False information voters" completely... They're the reason that low information voters don't always seem as bad as they are. Too bad both groups are highly concentrated on the right because that surely compounds the problem for the future. What are they gonna do? Scare each other and try to teach each other at the same time? It will be pandemonium in the race for the bottom. Like a never-ending "who knows less contest" because lying is considered virtuous.

If your system were applied as written, there would soon enough be about 34 republican voters left. And they would all be too old to procreate.

RE I got it about low information voters, but what are you going to do about all the voters who watch Fox News and read the Drudge Report and believe what they read and hear.

and then, what will you do about people like you - who are obviously so far over the edge and are completely unaware of how totally insane this suggestion is. the GOP is trying its best to limit the vote to rich - white just let them do their thing until we stop them

yo bob: No property owning requirements ever existed in the Constitution. States, not the feds, often required owing property as a condition of voting.

Tell me your kidding.

R.Douglas/ I guess that you consider Democracy to be unpalatable.

or by some other means that shows you've contributed to your country (maybe as a business owner or with community involvement in some way)

Interesting .... owning a business, even if you are not active in the community, trumps being a hard-worker who puts in long hours. It must kill you that serfdom no longer exists.

so you don't actually believe in the constitution or the idea of a representative democracy?

Sane LOL. Just like a true American. Democracy is freedom of choice for all not just the rich and those that someone deems worthy.

Sorry Larry they will. Oh and can I send you my Governor Nikki Teabag Halley, she can really help y'all out a bunch. /sarc

Sorry, Larry, but Coumbia has over 250,000 population. And with surrounding pop, in other words metro area, it's about 700k. Not quite as big as Augusta, GA with 300k pop and somewhere around a mil in metro but large enough anyway.

I figure you must be from Idaho, where the skiing and fishing is fine but education in Geography and population in U.S. must be sorely lacking. And I think ya'll have your fair share of poor people alsol.

jackieboy where do you get Idaho from? I see North Carolina written all over that: nc in the name & NC in the subject of the post.

Mississippi is my home state...and yes conservatives run states as if the state inherently hates its self and citizens...its truly sad to see the level of poverty in MS and WV....

@Jackie- The funniest thing about your post is you are correcting him with information you likely just looked up - meaning you didn't know beforehand - same as larry.

@Larry - You're right, columbia is a toilet. Charleston is even a toilet in about 1/4 - 1/2 of the city.

Are you talking about the Payroll Tax holiday expiration? Everyone knew that was short-term.

Dont' confuse Payroll Taxes with Federal tax bracket %'s. Although Fox "News" wants you to be confused on this

Although Fox "News" wants you to be confused on this

Doesn't take much to confuse a rwnj. The only thing they know is that they hate the "black man" in their White House.

You mean like how Obama said there wouldn't be any tax hikes coming out of the fiscal cliff deal when in fact everyone ended up with one anyway?

You, of course, are talking about the (scheduled) end of the temporary FICA tax rate decrease. I'm sure that Obama would have liked to have continued that reduction, but many conservatives opposed the decrease from the very beginning (even as they championed tax cuts for the wealthy).

David

If we go by popular vote only the most populace states will control the Election and the Country. That means about 35-40 of the other states would have no say in the elections.

slodon

"David

If we go by popular vote only the most populace states will control the Election and the Country. That means about 35-40 of the other states would have no say in the elections."

Am i missing something here?... One person one vote erases state affiliation in the tabulation... If it were a tie, the last vote would decide the outcome regardless of where it came from.

Every state would have the exact amount of say that their voting populace deserves.

Along with replacing the Electoral College with the popular vote, I would like to see several other reforms in Federal elections included in the same Amendment:

Voter eligibility rules to be the same in every state with regard to Federal elections.

A mandatory national holiday established specifically for voting

The only reason the votes on the west coast "don't matter' is because the press knows who they are voting for already. It doesn't mean the votes there don't count- I'm very thankful for those democrat votes from the west coast. Imagine where we'd be without them!

When two or three States can decide an entire election before the votes are even counted on the West Coast it disenfranchises all the States and people that feel their votes don't matter.

If that's the way they feel on the West Coast, they could open/close their polls earlier in the day.

The Electoral College was put in place to keep the big States from controlling the Elections and the Country.

It was also intended originally to allow for the electors to "correct" votes for the wrong candidate by the uneducated mob. Now the electors are pledged to vote for their candidate but at first they were allowed to follow their own conscience instead of the popular vote.

slodon

You are absolutely correct. AND that is why the fonding fathers came up with the Electoral College. You know, the Constitution has worked for 200 + years so I just wish we would let it stands as it is.

I don't often agree with you slodon but in this case I do 100%.

Going to a popular vote would basically lead to a system wherein the largest population centers (most of which are in blue states) would be pandered to,via policy and promises,the most.

Which would give us a MORE regimented and fractured system than the Electoral College does. In at least the short term the concept of a popular vote would be wildly advantageous to the Democratic Candidate for President and I,as a rock-ribbed Democrat,would stand in opposition to going that direction.

However,IF the GOP "leaders" in states such as Pennsylvania,Ohio,Virginia and others continue to insist on trying to game the system then,and only then,I say yes...dump the Electoral College and go to a popular vote as they would be instituting an ersatz one (in areas where it helps them...) anyway.

Steve/ What are you a true trouble maker, wanting true Democracy Gov.?

No, the electoral college was a typical man thing. The little guys were jealous of the big guys getting a bigger say. Everybody got at least three electoral votes (one for each senator and one for each representative). So the smallest states got a larger per capita voice.

If we are going to change the electoral college, we need to go with the popular vote. We have the ability to decide elections by popular vote today so we may as well make it fair.

You can count on Pennsylvania to make the changes the GOP wants. Our govenor is a GOP sleazy criminal. Besides trying to suppress the vote in this election, he also used his office to file a quick suit against the NCAA after a new AG was elected with the promise of looking into the failures of the entire Penn State debacle. She plans to look into who knew what when and why prosecution was held up. Guess who may have something to hide in that whole debacle. (I'll give you a hint: our govenor was a prosecutor during that time)

A popular vote is fair. It's the people that vote and can change things when they are fed up not big business who pays these guys to put into place who they want.

The system is outdated simply because most American's are frustrated and don't see anything positive from the government. Citizens have lost control of government.

Amendments to the constitution is not a new thing. But if they were more afraid of the common citizen that business then they may work for us or at least listen to us.

States do not have to reform the way they do things but when it comes to the president the people make the choice.

That's it Larry. Play the race card. Because you lefties have re-defined the word to mean anyone who disagrees with the agenda as laid out by your Devine God Who Walks Amongst Us.

For the record, I am not a supporter of doing away with the Electoral College nor of requiring any state that does not want to award its delagates proportionally to do so. I am just calling out you and all of those who are so shallow that you have no other choice but to play the race card because you can't engage in an intelligent debate.

You guys are PATHETIC!

Yeah had enuf,because when the GOP leaders,including their latest candidate for VP,one Paul Ryan,complain about the overabundance of "urban" voters there's no racial dog whistles being blown there,right?

The "Obama phones" BS...the "takers" BS...all that had NO racial connotations going on behind it,right?

Had enough/Had enough of we lefties!We lefties ,by which I assume you mean Liberal Democrats,because I see that you are destroying the Republican Party,with your T.P. idiocy.If you creatures had embraced your own Liberals,instead of chasing them out of your Party,you might have been able to look at a brighter future for the Rep. Party,instead of setting it on the way to extinction. Most people of my ilk are kind enough in their opinion of you lot that they claim it is merely racism,but I consider it is reactionary idiocy . Want to call me a Libby? try and spell the word correctly

Yep, it isn't racism so much as it is reactionary idiocy. Republican the party of stupid.

Kinda like Harry Reid getting the Senate fillabuster rules which have been in existence for decades and decades changed a few days ago eh?

If you want win the way its always been, then change it!

It works both ways!

HYPOCRYTE!

enuf: if you are going to use a word, try to learn how to spell it---hypocrite!!

Had, the filibuster had it's place back when a person had to actually stand there and talk the entire time. The rule change that allowed someone to filibuster without a long winded speech was just obstructionist and needs to be changed. If you want a filibuster, get up and talk the whole time. If you are too lazy to do that, then get rid of the filibuster.

Wow! Romney would have been out day two!

I think he actually used his third lie on day one by lying about his intentions for day two... But i'm splitting hairs here...

I don't know how you could get around the first amendment on this one, but i would like to see a restriction on the length of the campaign, say 6 months at most, or even better, 3 months. That gives the candidates enough time to present their positions to the voters, but not enough to keep adjusting their views based on the latest polling results. It also limits the amount of money needed to run, with a lot less spent on traveling and media ads.

Shorter campaign "seasons" would be nice alright Robert... But the Citizens United ruling created a huge cash cow that no one can resist humping for their share... My personal belief is that it even affected the results of the plethora of polls during the campaign as well as most media coverage. A "close race" was in the interest of every entity that was absorbing cash in the process. For the same reason 30 seconds costs several million dollars in the super-bowl, those pouring in the money need to remain convinced of the cost/benefit ratio.

If you can get both sides to keep paying until the bitter end and the end date is absolute, you'll surely want them starting as early as possible...

Romneys explanation to his investors that the blind-siding was due to gifts from the current administration doesn't hold water. I think the blind-siding was due to the effectiveness of their own money being smoked over so it wouldn't dry up before election day.

Paul - remember back to Bush and think again. Oh, wait, 'think" I forgot that's beyond you!

Try to keep up! You've been offensive for a long time now and it didn't work!! Throw away your old copy of the RNC playbook and ask Rinse Penis for a fresh one!!

Oh, btw... you misspelled "debase"...

Paul....Change is not the enemy

glad you agree that change is not the enemy. maybe then we can change the gun laws.

You mean like the republican congress?

Well that was totally different... These are black & white issues at hand here and we don't understand why that's not clear to everyone... Now by golly, we're just tryin' to do a little gubment biznuss here... You've all been saying we don't accomplish anything but look at us now promising to rush something through at a record pace and you still complain that we aren't pipple o' action?

Months for Sandy relief but they can promise progress on this by next week... The tree of Liberty is beginning to look like it deserves some watering.

jantor.......

actually it didn't. there is still a box of ballots waitng to be counted down in Florida.