This a good move. It takes Barry's talking points away about blaming the republican's for a "default". It forces Harry Reid and his crew of Dem idiots to FINALLY produce a budget after many years of shirking this responsibility. And it forces the Dems to focus on the sequester and the expiration of the current CR funding the govt through March 27, 2013.

And anyone who thinks putting these morons paychecks temporarily in escrow violates the Constitution is a moron themselves.

Life is good.

Enjoy.

(or, if you are a lefty liberal, at least try to be less miserable)

I will take no budget over the Ryan Budget any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

The only way for Republicans to kick the can down the road is if they can catch up with Obama. No budget from Democrats for almost four years and a three month extension has liberals complaining about kicking the can? Lets see if Democrats in the senate can actually do their job for a change, after all they have had almost 4 years to prepare for a three month cram session.

SCRAP THE DEBT LIMIT

In favor of scraping is currently at 55% majority support, not that the majority of We the People means sh!t to Teapublicans... The GOP/TP who are infamous for wasting tax dollars on such gimmicks, previously causing our rating to be downgraded thus adding to deficit... In fact maybe Michele Bachmann can lead another vote (lost count) to repeal Obamacare or some other POS legislation.

WASHINGTON — With the White House and Congressengaged in their second major battle in 18 months over the debt limit, some lawmakers, economists and analysts are offering a simple solution: Just get rid of it.

The U.S. is one of the few nations with such a borrowing mechanism. And as political fights over raising the limit have escalated in recent years, chilling financial markets and triggering the first-ever U.S. credit rating downgrade, critics said the time has come to make a change in Washington.

"Congress has gone from grandstanding on the debt ceiling to actual use of it as an economic weapon of mass destruction," Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) said. "It's extremely dangerous."

Welch and several Democratic House colleagues last week proposed eliminating the debt limit, which has been in place since 1939, to avoid the risk of a default.

They're joined by a growing chorus of analysts who have called the U.S. debt limit "ridiculous," "screwy" and just plain "nuts."

Sweet Jeebus, the Dems who voted for this know it is THEY who have tried to pass PAYGO, but the Teapublican Party Of No has blocked it. As for a budget, too bad the American people don't understand that we always have a budget whether one is passed by Congress or not.

Also:

"We Democrats have always intended to do a budget this year, for two reasons. First, it is not true that we haven't had budget control in effect the last several years. The Budget Control act of 2011 put in rigid spending cuts, that were in effect last year. It was a trillion dollars, we didn't like it. It was a much more Republican type of proposal that ours. In effect, it expires this year," Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) said on NBC's Meet the Press" this morning.

The BS from Teapublicans needs to end. Throwing the economy and American people under the bus to block the president's success is treason. I hope voters will throw the Teapublicans to the curb in 2014 including state legislatures, starting with Virginia -- WTF?!

Nasty Redhead - Can't Understand Normal Thinking - Who's been kicking the can? If you ever looked elsewhere for your news you would see that businesses are excited about the certainty that this move gives them.

As far as Hillary is concerned, anyone who like to see that woman in charge of anything would have to be a brain dead pathetic moron. She is getting to be as classless as her scumbag, womanizing,cheating, accused rapist husband.

TruePatriot - With this smart move by the GOP House your side has lost their talking points. Chuck Schumer is a joke who spews lies every time he gets in front of a camera. The majority of Americans want spending cuts and a budget no matter what little Chuckie says.

you would see that businesses are excited about the certainty that this move gives them

Okay, NOW I get it!

10 years of Bush tax cuts couldn't give them the certainty they needed but another 3 months of fiscal roulette will! lmao

Perhaps you could give us some credible sources to back up your claims, apologies for not just taking YOUR word for it.

She is getting to be as classless as her scumbag, womanizing,cheating, accused rapist husband.

Who both just happen to have an approval rating of about 70%!

Say, what is the current approval rating of Republican'ts these days?

Nasty

NHLucky-661693

I will take no budget over the Ryan Budget any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

That's not a budget. That is the Teapublican Oligarchy agenda on behalf of their Plutocrat masters. Holy cow, did folks see Ryan's latest drivel?

House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) on Tuesday accused
President Obama of attacking “straw men” in his second inauguration speech,
arguing that the president mischaracterized Republicans’ position on
federal entitlement programs.

“No one is suggesting that what we call our earned entitlements – entitlements you pay for, like payroll taxes for Medicare and Social Security – are putting you in a ‘taker’ category,” Ryan said on conservative commentator Laura Ingraham’s radio show. “No one would suggest that whatsoever.”

Ryan, the GOP’s 2012 vice-presidential nominee and his party’s leader when it comes to pressing for federal entitlement reform, contended that Obama made a “switcheroo” in his speech by suggesting that Republicans have referred to beneficiaries of those programs as “takers.” In reality, he said, that term refers to recipients of welfare and other non-“earned” entitlements.

OMG, Lordy, Lordy.

Republican Seniors -- especially those with baby boomer children who have been wiped out by the Great Recession and are facing rising health care issues -- Contact your Teapublican representatives NOW and demand they stop demonizing the social contract. Social Security and Medicare are trust funds we all pay into our entire working life, and are only "entitlements" in that we ARE entitled to what we pay for and have been promised, just like the generations before us.

Back at the ranch... We're still waiting to hear about the #1 PRIORITY, which is JOBS! The continued uncertainty and dysfunction of Congress thanks to Teapublicans is why unemployment is not down to 6% already.

I suspect the GOP/TP are getting their way on this idiot maneuver because Reid, et al, are focused on more important matters like reform of the filibuster. Then on to election reform including an end to electoral college machinations. See ya in Hell rightwingers.

Redhead you do know that Obama has made the Bush tax cuts pernament for 99% of the tax payers? So wtf are you talking about? They are the Obama Bush tax cuts now.

Nasty - Can't Understand Normal Thinking -

Any idiot could have an approval rating of 70% with mindless liberals. Do you really approve of men who cheat on their wives? How about if a republican was accused of rape? Would you defend him? Most lefties on MSNBC are very confused people and you are their head cheerleader. I think it would suck to be in that position.

And why do you complain about the Bush/Obama tax cuts? It's your side that refused to let them expire.

you are their head cheerleader

Why thank you! I enjoy wearing the crown! ;o)

Perhaps you could give us some credible sources to back up your claims, apologies for not just taking YOUR word for it.

I will take that as a NO since you deflect to this;

Do you really approve of men who cheat on their wives? How about if a republican was accused of rape

Ummm... next time try harder to focus will ya, I'm not in the mood to watch the dog chase their tail!

Some day I feel like playing with nut cases like you, sadly today isn't one of them... ;o)

• Another Republican gimmick.

Republican leaders in the House have vowed to produce a budget document that would balance the U.S. budget within a decade

Soooo, we're going to add another 5-10 trillion dollars to the debt? Way to go "fiscal conservatives." I wonder if that budget will take into stagnant revenues, increasing entitlement spending, continued military intervention overseas, and a rise in interest rates.

Meanwhile the GAO reports that they are once again unable to audit federal financial records due to

“widespread material internal control weaknesses, significant uncertainties, and other limitations...serious finance management problems at the Department of Defense...inability to adequately account for and reconcile intragovernmental activity and balances between federal agencies...ineffective process for preparing the consolidated financial statements.”

Perhaps a good place to start on the whole budget thing would be to get a f'n clue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/18/gao-audit-federal-government-defense_n_2507097.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

One thing we never hear in this debate is cutting defense spending. Morning Joe did say it out right this morning. Because it will hurt the rich if we cut back on Tanks we don't need, Jets, Ships we don't need and the Military has said they don't need these things. The Rep's only want to take things from people that have worked and paid into for all there working life.

We have ten thousand tanks rusting away in fields, Why are we still making tanks? because rich people make money from it. Just to keep making things we do not need is insane. That money could be used better on other things. Our military is 10 times bigger then it needs to be, But everyone is afraid to say that. We can cut our bases around the world. We just don't need these bases all over. We can cut aid to other country's. We have problems of our own right here. If we are so broke, how is it we can find money for Israel, Pakistan, Iraq, and any others. Hell Pakistan was hiding OBL from us. There are many place we can cut spending and not have to do keep taking from people here. And I am sick of this entitlement noise. We paid into these programs. It is not a give away. Go into all of these programs and first give back the money that was taken from them to pay for the wars. Johnson took money from SS to pay for Vietnam. I am willing to bet it never got paid back. Where did the money come from to pay for Iraq. I forgot, there oil paid for that one???? NOT. The Rep's put these 2 wars on the credit card, Now we have to pay for them, and as always the rich who made all the money from the war, wants the working people to pay the bill for the war. I say Bull$hit to that. The Mitt Romney's and Bushes and Cheney's made the money off the wars. Let them pony up and pay for it. We already gave out kids blood and life's, they can pay the bills.

WOW!! Did I accidentally stumble into a mental midget convention here??

Are you people (especially JHnumberputzoftheshrunkendink) actually stupid enough to be confusing what's best for America with your lame perceptions of a sliding balance of "talking points" between party affiliations??

Talking points?... That's what passes for action in your pea-sized minds? You're not bright enough to vote imbecile.

JH... Your "disadvantaged" status has apparently resulted in a deep-seated disrespect for women. Especially strong ones that make you look like testosterone skipped a generation... The funny thing is that the harder you struggle against that sad familial fact the more apparent it becomes. The right to free speech belongs to all. I'll use some of mine to remind you that any philipino lady-boy you encounter on the regular is more manly than anyone that tries to make "clever" use of the "C" word just because they've been run out of others.

Millionaires and billionaires

From the article above:

“No Budget, No Pay” goes the newly-minted Republican slogan to describe this strategy.

You’ve got to be kidding.

The nation and the world are being held hostage by these nincompoop teapartypoopers.

The article continues…

"It's time for Congress to get serious about this," Boehner said of the mounting national debt during a speech on the House floor ahead of the vote, "and this is the first step in an effort to bring real fiscal responsibility to Washington."

What a humongous load of crap.

I got a better slogan for them.

“Do your job, or go to jail”.

Salud

TO: High rolla who wrote:

"... They are the Obama Bush tax cuts now..."

"Obama Bush"?

lol

chick binder

You have made feel so small. Thanks for the spanking. You can go back to kissing fiesty's rear end now.

A new smokescreen is arisen: we need to pass a budget. Why?

There is nothing wrong with continuing resolutions. Let me point out that without new budgets, you cannot have new spending programs. We had budgets under Bush and an average of somewhere around 8% per year spending increases. Without new budgets, new spending under Obama has averaged around 1.4% (see forbes Magazine's May 2012 article:

Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama?

Let me also point out - if we could keep spending increases at 1.4%, the national debt will start to shrink as %GDP as soon as 2014. And that's the measure that really matters.

If you look at debt as percent GDP at usgovernmentspending.com/us_national_debt_chart.html , you'll see it looks like a rounded hill, with us at the summit. The steep part of the hill was the Bush years, and the leveling off has been the Obama years. In fact, there is an article from just last month at Investors.com with the title

U. S. Deficit Shrinking At Fastest Pace Since WWII, Before Fiscal Cliff
That begins: "Believe it or not, the federal deficit has fallen faster over the past three years than it has in any such stretch since demobilization from World War II."

We ought to be smarter than to believe Fox News, or look at half the facts. The big picture on debt should always involve its size relative to GDP. That is trending fine now; Republicans are crazy or evil for trying to mess with success. After all, Bush messing with the Clinton success is what caused this mess in the first place.

Shout out to my girl Hillary for slapping the @!$%# eating grin off of John McNasty's bloated face with surgical precision!!!

The look he had afterwards only reminded me of what an unstable war monger he is...

Hi Feisty,

That was Great. Hillary put the Old Goat in his place!!!

You have made feel so small. Thanks for the spanking.

So you're still lurking in the shadows while refusing to answer provide back up for your bull@!$%# claims! lol

If nothing else, you're typical of a low information voter - all barky NO bitey! ☺

noncoms

This was so good, it's worth repeating.

Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama?

Again...

Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama?

And again.

Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama?

You hear this RW chuckleheads?

You got NOTHING!

Salud

Nasty

I have made no BS claims. If you are seeking some information go get it yourself.

Tomas - Let's compare how much he would have spent had the GOP not regained control of the House after his first two years. Who was the HIGHEST GOVERNMENT SPENDER IN TWO YEARS - Barack Obama.

Anyone championing Ryan and the Republican budget needs to remember that his budget would increase spending 2%.

I have made no BS claims

Wrong again Bucko!

Do you even remember what you had for breakfast this morning?

You claimed;

If you ever looked elsewhere for your news you would see that businesses are excited about the certainty that this move gives them.

I asked you to support your accusation...

Perhaps you could give us some credible sources to back up your claims, apologies for not just taking YOUR word for it.

This is the best you could muster for an answer;

If you are seeking some information go get it yourself.

Translates to; I either can't or won't...

Here's a tissue, wipe the egg off your face!

Game - Set - Match... Dumbfux! ;o)

JH-479998

JH - Going After Responsible Governmental Leases Especially Where Affirmatively Distributed-

"Any idiot could have an approval rating of 70% with mindless liberals."

Well now let's just examine yer calculatin' there JH... 70%... mindless liberals... Hmm.

"How about if a republican was accused of rape?"

I can say without a doubt that I would feel terribly sorry for the other dude...

"Would you defend him?"

Of course I'd defend the other dude if I was there in time to stop it! I'd push you right out of your spectator seat if i had to!

"I think it would suck to be in that position."

I will gladly defer to your greater knowledge and experience on those subjects.

Acronyms are fun. Anyone can do it!

JH-479998

Who was the HIGHEST GOVERNMENT SPENDER IN TWO YEARS - Barack Obama

LMAO.

Another bold-faced lie courtesy of the RW Lying Media.

Face it JH.

GW and the Teapartypoopers ran America into the ground.

President Obama's policies have turned our economy around and it drives you nuts to the point that you can't admit it because you are still toting the RW, Karl Rovian talking points.

The gig is up.

No one is listening anymore to your talking points.

Salud

Currently, "you lie" Joe Wilson is trying to mess with Hillary. Slap that punk down!!!

“The fact that we're here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. Leadership means 'The buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit.”

“And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the Federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.

Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America’s priorities.” - Senator Barack Obama, D-Ill, Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt, March 16, 2006

noncoms -- Those FACTS make rightwinger's hair hurt. In regard to FAUX Noise, I just saw a bumper sticker: "I don't believe the liberal media" and I wanted to add another sticker below it saying: "I believe the Politburo" -- Nothing like State News during Dubya when Fox received talking points from the White House (and why they had to stop using the slogan of "fair and balanced" after losing a lawsuit).

TomasGrande -- The Teapublicans who claim to be all about the Constitution -- Not paying Congress is unconstitutional. This is just another gimmick to appeal to their ignorant base.

JH-479998

chick binder

You have made feel so small...

Well then why not run along now little man?

hs321 -- And so? That conservatives believe the deficit is a higher priority than JOBS proves they are all brainwashed by the rightwing propaganda machine that is sponsored by the 1%. The Plutocrats just want to get out of paying their fair share in taxes rather than paying workers decent wages. Grow a brain!

Let's just call it a bankrupt nation. Turn out the lights in Washington and go home.

The conservatives put so much emphasis on coming up with a budget. What good is a budget when, with their record of "deficits don't matter," can fiscal conservatism be achieved? The conservatives have spent like drunken sailors on the socializing of Wall Street through the unfunded Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, two unfunded trillion dollar wars, unfunded nation building in Iraq and Afghanistan, unfunded Medicare Part D, all while reducing revenues and hurling offensive rhetoric about free-loading entitlements that many seniors and retirees have paid into. The conservative complain about spending, spending, spending, but they're willing to find the money to put an armed guard in every school (not to keep students safe, but to keep their gun rights intact). The conservatives rally behind Ryan like he's a fiscal hawk, yet Ryan voted for each and everyone of these enormous debt accruing bills. Ryan talks a good game but his record clearly shows his deficit spending, debt raising, socialist side. The conservatives record doesn't match their rhetoric. Ask yourself, "they didn't practice what they preached when they had they the presidency why are they interested in practicing it now?"

Let's just call it a bankrupt nation. Turn out the lights in Washington and go home.

Exactly. This is no victory for EITHER side. The bill will still come due, no matter how many times these clowns put it off. It'll just have a few trillion more added to it come May, that's all. We're exactly like Greece, only we just can't see it - or rather, we don't have the stones to face up to it.

Fiesty,

You said 10 years of the Bush tax cuts but now they have been made permanent for over 99% of the people by Congress and the President, so please tell me again how bad they are for the economy, as the Democrats voted overwhelmingly for them.

American Girl,

President Obama extended them in 2010 and just signed them into law for over 99% of the people, so yes they are the Bush/Obama tax rates. President Obama by indexing the AMT to inflation actually increased the rates for a large number of people.

SDMF,

If the budget grows at 2% but we have GDP growth of more than that the result is a budget decrease. Also the tax revenues should grow more than the 2% which would also reduce the deficit.

So Typical of a "Do nothing Congress"

Here are some numbers for those who are really worried about the deficit:

5.5%, 3.9%, 3.4%

Those are the estimated budget deficits as %GDP for years 2013, 2014, and 2015 now up at the Office of Management and Budget.

Here are some more numbers:

4.2%, 6%, 4.8%, 5.1%, 5%, 4.7%,

These are the actual deficits from the years 1976, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1992

We are not in some sort of historic deficit crisis. We were in 2009, I will surely grant that (the deficit was 10.1%) but we are back on track to getting to a good place. We don't need drastic course corrections. We are travelling a wise and sensible path already.

Hola, TruePatriot!

The RW noise machine is grinding to a sputter.

K-Roves meltdown on election night exposed them for who they really are.

Just a bunch of high-priced millionaires who spout garbage and their viewers eat it up like it's gospel.

Oh sure they will still get some viewers who love Megyn Kelly and also to hear it's always "Liberal's fault".

But for the most part, the RW sound machine that Boehner etc. relied on isn't there anymore.

Salud

Hey JH-47998 . . .

I think it would suck to be in that position.

I think it would suck to be in yours. How was your little timeout last week? Looks like you're working on an outright ban. No worries, Tyler and Sally will keep their eye on your little position.

noncoms,

You are talking about actual deficits against projected and we should know from history that spending always goes up. They are also projecting very rosy growth rates, which are more than we have achieved in the last few years, but I hope the deficits can be reduced to those percentages.

I find the narcissism of this President gut wrenching...

"I will not have debate on raising the debt limit."

While he was a senator it was "Unpatriotic" to raise the debt limit....

What a complete JOKE!!

TomasGrande -- Megyn Kelly, like Beetle Juice the name invokes laughter just hearing it.

Understand the rightwing profile, part of which is the ability to rationalize anything to fit the agenda. (We could coin this the Downing Street Memo syndrome?) Like the Manchurian candidate, if any Republican leader held up a baby to shield himself from a bullet -- Assuming rightwingers learned about it (because FAUX Noise or Hate Radio wouldn't air it), some kind of conspiracy would be created not unlike the massacre in CT. Rove's meltdown occurred on FOX, yet do you think it registered with their viewers?

The 47% that voted for Romney will continue to shrink due to intolerance. In the meantime, Teapublicans still control many states and continue to make abortion illegal via trap laws, continue to gerrymander to permanently block Democrats from being elected -- Virginia waited for a Dem to go to the inauguration to jam through redistricting. Reince Priebus, another twerp, is encouraging swing states to jack-up electoral college rules.

As if voter suppression hasn't been bad enough, and elections being stolen in 2000 and 2004 -- We can't wait until the next census to redraw districts. There are rumbles of ways to counter these anti-democracy shenanigans, such as blue states making electoral college rules to cut-off the count once 270 is reached. This would make all 50 states relevant again based on the popular vote nationwide.

Discuss among yourselves, but what ever you do, don't be complacent or underestimate these rightwing jagoffs. ...keep your enemies closer... -- Vito Corleone. And we now return to regular programming in which Hilary takes names and kicks arse...

Rand Paul, the beady eyed Optometrist turned Senator from the (ahem) state of Kentucky told the Secretary;" had I been President I would have relieved you of your post".

The little delusional son-of-a-bitch need not worry. He'll never come close to any position that would allow Him either authority.

noncoms

From the recent GAO report:

The projections in this report indicate that current policy is not sustainable.

The report also warns that its estimates probably underestimate the danger:

because they assume interest rates will not rise as the debt-to-GDP ratio grows...potentially leading to the point where there may be no feasible level of taxes and spending that would reduce the debt-to-GDP ratio to its 2012 level.

http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/651357.pdf

A small political history lesson for you liberals that do not want to remember it. The Clinton/Bush budget surpluses were the result of a compromise that Bush Sr. made with Congressional Democrats. Democrats wanted tax increases, which Bush did not want to do because of his "Read my lips, No new taxes!" pledge. He compromised in return for an agreement for planned spending reductions for upcoming budget years. That compromise was used by Clinton in his election bid. Ads were run over and over showing Bush Sr. saying "Read my lips, No new taxes!" Then when he got into office, President Clinton took credit for Bush, Sr's work that was used to defeat him.

What we need, like we needed in 1989, is a plan to reduce the spending (investments for liberals). The problem is that the House of Representatives have sent plans for that year after year, but Harry Reid (D) has tabled the legislation without giving the Senators a chance to even discuss it. That is what is broken in Congress.

In 1945 this country Xed out a national debt, that when inflation is accounted for, was much larger in total, and was in fact, a much higher percentage of the countries GDP than what we have today. Didn't hurt us one bit. Fact, enriched us greatly. The President must not allow these stupid tea partyites and some chicken sh^t democrats to derail the gaining recovery from this long, long, long, greed induced, and stupidly mismanaged recession. To hell with the politics. Mr. President, Sir! No spending cuts that hinder recovery toward "full employment"!

What a joke these Republican Clowns are. They act like they are fiscally responsible? LOL What a joke.

many on here are just too funny to believe. I have to wonder just where everyone has been when time to vote came along. The problems this nation has is not from just one party ..it is from BOTH parties. Neither have done their jobs at any one time in years. They bot throw blame around like a ball and get nowhere. The question we should all be asking is why ? However, it seems way too many folks enjoy bashing each other rather than actually looking at the individual people we have for some whatever reason continued to re-elect . All of those we have today in congress are millionaires who could care less about the middle class no matter whast they all make claims of. Even the republicans can been seen through if you really look. JUst how many of their ideas help the middle class and how many help their wealthy friends ? Actually it must be ggreat to be elected to a position that you have to run for every some many years and get to retire from it at the same time...All politicans today complain about the cost of social security....claim it is an entitlement....but do we not all pay into it for our retirement ? Well all except the weal;thy who get their break after hitting 100K or so...then they get a free ride. How about insurance for our elected..they complain about medicaid and medicare..and its cost..yet write their own benefit package for whatever they want and it is charged off too the tax payers who have no say in it at all. Nor do we have a say in any pay increase they give themselves..not bad for millionaires to be able to just give themselves a raise..be nice if we could all do that. I wonder though..if the republicans get to cut SS pay..will they also cut that tax that is taken out of our checks to match those cuts ? Want to bet they will still give themselves a pay raise when they get though cutting everything else?

The democraps want to spend our way out of debt- go figure.

Someone mentioned Hillary & McCain- loved watching him grill her into a corner lmfao!

The only corner McCain can find is the one Lindsey Graham calls His ass.

ivan, NC -- Stop with the False Equivalency fallacious argumentation. The Dems are not pure as the driven snow, but the GOP/TP have gone so far over the line as to be treasonous. There's NO comparison. Throw the Teapublican rat bastards OUT!

ProFreedom-5130956 -- Actually it does take money to make money, or what is called investment.

Rightwingers vilify Europe, especially Greece, yet the very austerity and lack of tax revenue that has prevented recovery there is what Teapublicans want. Really, seriously, you survivalist types think "eating the corn seed" is a good idea?

McCain grilling someone into a corner? Oh riiiight, that happened in the alternative universe you live in. Gotcha.

Mac Forrester -- Just saw your response. LMAO.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

10 years of Bush tax cuts blah blah ad-nauseum.......

Feisty, go find your wallking cane. Voters today were only 13 years old when "Bush" was prez. Better look in the mirror. Your man is the 'new Bush'....lol

I guess they managed to put off the big dog fight until summer. It is better than some calamity hitting in winter. What I would really love, though, is for these blackmailing Republicans to disappear forever.

Great Post Empress....so now attempting to balance a budget is 'blackmail'. Stay in the basement.

@Truepatriot- Takes money to make money? What are you talking about? Our spending is out of control thanks to the party of spend spend spend and the hole is being dug deeper. To imply that this is a 'good thing' is indicative of the wool that you obviously have pulled over you. Get real- the liberal notions you've been hypnotized with are clouding your better judgment!

Oh well, another victory for the dems. So, what happens when there is no agreement come mid-May? Wish I could be more optimistic, but the fact is that the libs won't put anything forth and will just tell the repubs to come up with a plan that they can agree to, just like the last 5 years! We know that the libs have no desire to curb spending and they really don't care what happens to the country as long as they are re-elected and they know that the only thing their fellow libs care about is the government taking care of them. They appear to be right in their assumptions that they will have raked in all the money for themselves and will be out of office by the time enough people realize they've been taken for a ride. Heck, even then there are enough gullible people to buy their arguments that we wouldn't have been in this mess if they had just been allowed to spend more (but couldn't because of the obstructionist repubs) and raised taxes even more.

Why all the hysterics about the deficit?

Economist, Dean Baker

"... The deficit chicken hawks that dominate Washington policy debates are warning us that financial markets will panic if we don't soon get our debt under control, with investors fleeing the dollar and interest rates soaring. Japan's ratio of debt to GDP of 240 percent is more than twice that of the United States, yet the interest rate on long-term government bonds is hovering near 1.0 percent and the government's main concern is that the yen is over valued … "

I might also add that Japan's unemployment rate is 4.1% half of ours which is 8.3% (officially, it's quite a bit higher really)

In Europe where they are slashing government spending and wages (like both the Republicans and Democrats want to do here) unemployment is above 12%and most of the countries there are in recession or DEPRESSION.

Cutting Social Security and Medicare and government spending is not needed and will make matters worse not better.

But, of course, this won't stop them from trying to do it.

Because the deficit is just being used as an excuse to cut social programs like Social Security and Medicare, etc.

In other words: IT'S CLASS WARFARE, STUPID!

Democratic budget chief, Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., said Wednesday that Senate leaders had intended to produce a budget anyway, and would do so regardless of what the House bill requires.

lmao

Feisty, It is absolutely preposterous for you to ask anyone to provide references, sources or support for their position. You have NEVER once done so and have NEVER once made a comment that was anything more than an attack on anyone who disagrees with you. One might think that you are actually the blog mistress in disguise since you apparently are allowed to say anything you want without consequence. Your request for sources is about the biggest load of hypocrisy I've heard in quite some time.

Feisty - First off congratulations again for being first to post a comment! What are the odds? Must be some kind of record?

I kind of like this idea, because it forces the Senate to actually pass a Budget, something they haven't done in 4 years. Do you have a better idea? Plus they are going to submit a budget that is balanced after 10 years, and I don't believe either the President or Democrats have ever submitted a proposal yet that does that, have they?

So, again, what is so wrong with this?

Boehner the drama queen strikes again.

Members of the House and especially the Senate don't actually need the pay they get from sitting in congress. Most are millionaires.

"The GOP’s new tack has the added benefit of forcing Senate Democrats to produce a formal budget, something the upper chamber has avoided for several years now."

It's pathetic beyond words that this is required.

TruePatriot-445959..evidently you did not read my whole response..I am not saying one party is better than the other..actually, neither party should be getting paid for work not done by any of them. All I am saying is that many voted republican not really reading just what they wanted to do with the budget they rave about. Our elected created many of the so called entitlements they now complain about for votes from the middle class to get either elected or re elected. I have little faith in either party as to either of them doing what they say they will do. For every idea they come up with the wealthy come out further ahead and the middle class lose more. HAS anyone bothered to notice that for all the cuts wanted for the middle class , social security , medicaid and medicare not one politican made claims of stopping their pet projects. Or cutting off funds to special interest groups who donate millions to politicans.

FOR FEISTY in Roselle.

Let's us get together and rable-rouse for a split-up of Illinois. Everything north of I-80 can become the Democratic People's Socialist Union of Northern Illinois. You can have Cook County corruption and all the revenue you can steal, er I mean appropriate from Wisconson and Indiana. The rest of the State will be called The Republic of Southern Illinois. We will keep most of the food production and all the honest citizens. We in the South will even pay for constructing a razor wire fence (a demilitarized zone if you will. Can't stop interstate commerce from going through the state, although NONE will actually stop here) along the I-80 corridor and pay for manning the checkpoints to keep crooks from migrating south. "Yous guys over by der" have a great day.

Making Mexico pay for any and all damages and or expenses incurred by the United States or

any of its institutions or citizens by Mexican national who entered the United States illegally or

remained in the United States after their visas expired or

caused a person, such as a child to be in the United States unlawfully, or

gave birth to a child while inside the United Stated in order to defraud, or

encouraged a person to enter the United States unlawfully, or

used a non-profit organization, charity, or religion, to aid and/or abet a person who is in the United States unlawfully.

House votes to push debt limit deadline to mid-May

Kind of a waste of time because Obama will be just as insistent on continuing his massive spending in May as he is now.

The end result will be an increase in the debt ceiling and the continuation of trillion plus deficits year after year. For Obama, this has become the norm.

It's even worse because it's not a "no budget, no pay" backdrop, but a "#NoBudgetNoPay" backdrop, as if to demonstrate that Republicans had or will ever have any idea how to communicate or even pander to internet users. #LameHashTags #TwitterIsConstrainedOverhypedMarketerWetDreamFuelAnyway

Congress as in the Senate?

Steeler Fan-380417....No, they just don't CARE how fed up we are with them.

What's the point of putting the pay into escrow? That has no teeth. The pay should be forfeited permanently. It makes sense, no work, no pay.

not gonna happen. why are they even playing that game. it is not legal or constitutional to withhold pay from them and they know it!! Stupid ploy

They'll just pass another bill saying they'll do their jobs in 6 months or else ......, bypassing the current 'or else', just like they're doing now.

How about the US Citizens all get their heads out of the political parties' hindends and start using those heads instead of following a party-line (any party) vote that does very little to help the normal citizens and fills the pockets of those jokers we call our president, congressional representatives, and their big business backers!!

Parties are all about control of the minds of the American People and they use the youth, the minorities, the illegal "temporary citizens" and anyone they can drag off the streets that are willing to vote for whoever offers them favors that will for the most part be short lived! There seems to be NO LOW that a political party will stoop to (as indicated on these posts) to gain control of the people's funds and their minds!!

I do a thorough research on every candidate of parties as far back as I can before I cast any vote. If I have unanswered questions, I contact the candidate, and if I can't find the answers, I don't vote for that candidate! I usually find down the road that those who hide things in the past, do so because it could derail the candidate!! I have kept track of past voting records, personal info, and just about any information that may be pertinent to the kind of person he/she is and what he believes in when out of the "spotlight". You might be very surprised by the differences in their private & "business" views and how the Big $$$s affect their political "mood"!! Too many candidates can capture their votes with their impressive speeches, personalities, and promises yet, it's all a hot-air balloon!! My grandfather was a staunch believer it knowing who he's voting for and I have his evaluations on candidates dating back to early 20s. They are fascinating, educational,and He didn't have a political party listed on any of them! He put a check mark on each candidate that he voted for!

they don't get it because the same idiots keep re-electing them.

Actually a better idea would be to LIMIT the number of days Congress can be in session. Just pass a budget and get the hell out of town. If they're not in session, they can't pass any more stupid laws.

"It's time for Congress to get serious about this," Boehner said

Ok Johnny, when ARE you going to get serious about this? It certainly isn't now. Always pontificating about how much rethugli-cons love America but when push comes to shove you slither back into the sewer you just came out of. "No Budget, No Pay"? I've got a better one for you: Rethugli-cants, No Balls, No Glory. See you at the ballot box, Johnny, in 2014.

Is this bill constitutional?

The 27th Amendment reads:

"No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened."

In other words Congress can't make changes to it's own salaries during it's own session.

Yea but we are trying to make changes to the 2nd Amendment so I doubt this will be a problem changing.

Was priceless seeing Lawrence laugh in the face of the Republican from Alabama while asking where the "Every law has to be constitutional" rule the teatards put in place was with this unconstitutional bill.

The 27th Amendment reads:

"No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened."

In other words Congress can't make changes to it's own salaries during it's own session.

_____________________________________

This bill does NOT "vary the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives" and, therefore does NOT violate the 27th. They will still get their full salaries, not a penny more or a penny less. It only changes the timing of when they receive the compensation, which is not addressed anywhere in the Constitution.

It's absolutely within the Constitution.

Timing could be construed as withholding pay.

@re-elect. They are not talking about changing their pay. They will just put it in escrow. But really who cares if it's Constitutional. Certainly not Congress, nor the president.

It's a little shell game being played by the Republicans concerning the budget. Here are the facts.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/house-and-senate-unanimously-reject-obama-budgets-or-do-they/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/apr/06/mitt-romney/romney-says-obama-failed-pass-budget/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/16/senate-budget-jeff-sessions_n_1522643.html

If those 3 links are where you get your "news", that would be why so an id10t!

Huff Post: As Far Left as Obama

ABCNEWS: Obama enabler

Politifact: Turns out that Politifacts "Lie of the Year" on Romney was the truth

You can't handle the facts. Well, I guess you love Fox Trash News, or Rush Limpball.

seems YOU can't handle the truth Job1. If it's not coming from your left lame stream media you pop a vein. Try doing YOUR own research instead of being spoon fed what your handlers feed you, but then that would take doing a little work, something you liberals abhor. Easier picking the pockets of the taxpayers?

The Senate is a total joke. The 17th Amendment saw to that. Thank you Progressives.

Start the government spending cuts now!!!

That's "racist" talk!

Maybe it's because the GOP are not paying her fairly.

Maybe it's because she knows she's going to have to explain this to Rachel!!

No. Since he isn't going to get his full allowance for a while Johnny switched a cheap beer, Hudepohl, which is an Ohio beer. It prodcues mass amounts of gas. King of the beer farts. I know this from personal experience as there have been a couple times when I had to do the same thing. Excuse me while I crack open a Rolling Rock.

The republican contrilled house has psaaed a budget for the last 2 years, it's been the Democrat controlled senate that has refused to do it's job.

Duchess1...The house has passed a budget every year. The senate refuses to even bring it up for a vote or make ammendments to it and send it back to the house, and you want to complain about the Republicans. The Dems voted unanimously to reject Obama's last few budgets he submited but then never tried to pass one of their own to reconcile with the house passed budgets as is normally done. Now that Obama's been elected for the 2nd term, the senate will finally pass a budget but it will be loaded with new spending and tax increases as indicated by several Dem Senators, such a Schumer's comments about the bill yesterday.

"The Senate can pass a budget resolution with a simple majority vote. But for that budget resolution to take effect, it must have either the cooperation of the house, or at least 60 votes in the Senate.

So yes, the Senate could pass a budget resolution, but without the cooperation of the house or 60 votes, that resolution would not take effect; it would be an empty gesture."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/02/parliamentary-procedure

cs, you can't seriously think that any self-respecting Democrat could vote for the Ryan Budget? You know, the one that privatizes Medicare -- oops, excuse me "voucherizes" it?The one that decimates Medicaid? That cuts Social Security?

Why is it that when people think we are overspending, the only things they are willing to cut are social programs that support the majority of our people and the large majority of our people want to keep the same? (Hint: Republicans have hated the programs since their inception and will seize on any excuse to destroy them) Aren't there any other places to save? Say on aircraft carriers?

And why does nobody ever note that one reason we are in the hole right now ( and I do not buy for one second the notion that we are broke) is the fact that due to the recession tax revenues are down significantly? That is on top of the fact that we held two wars and forgot to pay for them and now the bills are due.

I do think we should do better with managing budgets, but the "cut the spending" mantra has way more to do with "starving the beast" than it does with sound financial management.

Not true. Both the House and Senate pass individual budgets and they do not have to be voted on by the other body. They are not law. They serve as blueprints for the 12 appropriation bills that make up the fiscal year budget for the federal government. The House uses its budget to draft their versions of the appropriation bills and the Senate uses its budget to draft their versions of the appropriation bills. It is those 12 appropriation bills that must be compromised on and passed in both Houses and then sent to the President to be signed into law.

The Senate could have passed a budget anytime it wanted over these past 4 years with a simple 51 vote in favor by Democrats. Republicans could not have blocked it from happening. That did not happen because Reid knew that any budget they passed would have to be "scored" by the CBO, and either his budgets would have been laughed at by the CBO, or they would have looked more like the Ryan budgets than the Obama budget requests.

Wrong again. The resolution can pass with 51, but it can't be enacted unless:

1) The bill is reconciled with the House version and passes the House. (Which the Republicans in the House won't do.)

or

2) 60 votes in the Senate (Which Republicans in the Senate won't do.)

It's a pretty big assumption that a reasonable budget wouldn't get 60 votes. I am assuming it would be reasonable not a pork laden gravy boat.

Do we know what their budget was, even though it was not brought up for a vote?

ask ole Harry why he's sitting on bills and refuses to bring them to the floor. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Also the budget the empty suit sent went down in FLAMES in the senate, not one repub or dem voted for it. So STFU.

No it would not. We were down graded because they wanted to see SPENDING CUTS of $4 trillion over the next 10 years and the spendingcrate and obama refused them.

The downgrade had nothing to do with cuts. It was all about the debt ceiling and Congress risking default on our obligations.

"The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy"

Not true. The downgrade happened AFTER the debt ceiling was raised. It was due to the fact that even the sequester deal, if fully implemented, would not get the federal government onto a sustainable financial course. It fell short of what was needed and is still needed.

That's a quote from S&P. Yes they downgraded after the limit was raised.

Nobody knew how long the Congress was going to hold the good faith and credit of the U.S. hostage. It could have been lowered more, had Congress continued stalling, so S& P waiting till a deal got passed.

What great negative effect befell us after the S&P downgrade? Not a gwaddamned thing.

Obama got 10 million fewer votes in 2012 than he did in 2008, so how do you figure that to be "decisively"? if it was ""decisively", he would have gotten MORE votes then 2008, don't you think?

Rudy the dems needed to gain 25 seats in the house to win they didnt gain 25 seats so actual the dems lost in the house.

lol conservative denial.

Obama still won by 3.85% in 2012.

Obama is the first president to crack 51 percent two elections in a row since Dwight Eisenhower more than a half-century ago.

Obama won 26 states and the District of Columbia, piling up 332 electoral votes. There is no state in Obama's column which would have swung the election to Romney had he won it. Even if Romney had won California's 55 votes (not a chance) he still would have lost.

Only 4 states were closer than 5%. Even if Romney swept those 4, he still would have lost. Four is the smallest number of close states in a presidential election in over 30 years (since Reagan vs. Mondale.)

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2013/01/04/the-final-2012-presidential-election-results-arent-close

Democrats picked up seats in the House while Republicans lost seats. Democrats defended all 23 open Senate races, and picked up 2 seats and an independent.

800,000 people attended the 2nd inauguration. That's more than both of GW Bush's combined. lol

This is not a kindom or a dictatorship. Flordia (29 electoral votes) Obama won by 20k. Ohio (24 electoral) votes Obama won by 80k. Virgina (19 electoral votes Obama won by 50k). So in reality Obama won the three deciding battleground states by app 200k votes. This was one of the closest elections ever. In order for the dems to win the house they needed to gain 25 seats they didnt so they did not win the house. 49% of americans disagree with Obama so basical its pretty close to being divided right down the middle. Now 2 elections come to mind when we talk about landslides and mandates. FDR and Reagan both won by landslides. Reagan won all the states but one and I think FDR won all but 2. Obama won 26 Romney 24 so basic common sense tells us this was one of the closeset races ever.

sonmanvb

Obama got 10 million fewer votes in 2012 than he did in 2008, so how do you figure that to be "decisively"? if it was ""decisively", he would have gotten MORE votes then 2008, don't you think?

Spoken like a true misinformed idiot who can't do simple Math.

Ok dumba$$ Obama has 64 million in popular vote compared to his 2008 69 million. 69million - 64million does not equal 10 million. How can you be this stupd dude, you can't even substract.

High rolla, you can spin it how you want to make yourself feel good. But most of us know a blow out when we see one.

Electoral Vote 332 to 206. Yep, thats really close.

Popular Vote Obama 64 million Romney 59.5 million, Obama has more than 4 million votes.

Pecentage 51 % to 47 %.

But hey, knock yourself out if that little teaparty right wing Brain of yours think the election was close, go for it.

At this point it doesnt even matter, why? Obama is the President AGAIN. So suck it up loser!!

51 47= 98 the other 2 are votes against Obama so 51 in favor of obama 49 against. We are a divided nation and thats the cold hard truth. You really need to check your math because 51 +47 = 98 all day long not 100. In fact 49% voted against Obama. In actualy fact it was one of the closest ever. Winning 26 out of 50 states means you lost 24 of the 50 states. Dude that is about as close as it gets this is just factualy dude, Now when Reagan won 49 states and lost 1 now that was a election that wasnt close. Now its irrelivant how many votes Obama won by because a win is a win. However Obama didnt win a dictatorship or king so the facts is 49% disagrees with Obama. Thats not spin its actualy facts.

Only 47.2% voted Romney, not 49%. The remaining 1.8% voted for someone else other than Obama or Romney.

There is no mathematical way that Romney could have won, considering the way the vote actually turned out.

Which means they didnt agree with Obama. Actualy had Romney won the three battlegrond states that were close Ohio, Fla,Vir he would have one. 49% of americans disagree with Obama that is just a fact. See a landslide would be Reagan winning 49 out of 50 states are FDR winning 46 out of 48 states. Winning 26 out of 50 means Obama lost 24 out of the 50. It just dont get much closer than that. We are divided because 49 % of the voters do not agree with Obama. It was indeed in reality very very close. I dont know who came up with the electoral colleg but you can actuayl get more popular votes and still lose the electoral vote. Make no misstake about it alot of people disagree with Obama.

High Rolla: Which means they didnt agree with Obama.

Which means they didn't agree with Obama OR Romney.

Democrats had to make do with close defeats in 2000 and 2004. In 2000 it was extremely close and was decided in court. Which means an even larger percentage of the population did not agree with the results.

Stop whining. You can make do with this one.

High rolla, who is saying Obama is a King or Dictator other than Fox News an conservative nuts on the radio.

Not 1 liberal has publicly called obama a King. So chill out with all that Dictator crap. It makes you look real crazy and nutty.

The only people that disagree with Obama is that 47% that voted for Romney. I suspect you are in that 47%. The majority us of 51% agrees with the President. No matter how close you try and make it.

???????????where did you go to school 51 +47= 98? So 2% didnt agree with Obama and Romney for that matter. Im not crying I just happen to like pointing out facts when I hear people say its a mandate or landslide because that is a flat out lie. Fact is we are a divided country and thinking that 51% is a landslide is just crazy. Liberals are for more govenrment and less freedoms that is just a fact. liberals want bigger government this is no secret. Bigger govrnment means less freedoms amd that leads to dictatorship at some point. Also keep in mind that the repuks won the house so oviously not everybody wants to go the way of the liberal.

Son, you need to get a clue because clearly you have none. Go learn what the debt ceiling is. When you understand it, get back to us. I won;t hold my breath waiting.

NOW your concerned about the Constitution? You should have thought about that when you cast your vote for Obama, 2 times.

The argument for it is that it only delays pay until a budget is done, not dock pay. As such there would be no change on the amount they get paid only when they receive it.

It can be argued that suspending pay is effectively the same as zero pay.

If it passes then it will be up to someone to challange it in court. Then the SCOTUS will rule & we will have an answer. And if no one challenges it then it will remain in effect.

If the Republicans keep up there intransigence the sequestration will take effect and $500 billion will be cut from defense spending. If they don't want that to happen, they will have to compromise.

Peter, I couldn't disagree more. President Obama is more forceful and powerful than ever and the American public is with him. I would say the exact opposite of your claim is true. The Reps are boxing themselves in and restricting their own influence -- they are displaying their unwillingness to cooperate to the public and the public doesn't like it.

If the sequestration bill goes into effect, the Defense Dept. has already announced that it would immediately cut 80,000 civilian jobs - no uniformed personnel. It seems that the Pentagon spent much of last year updating all their contracts with the Defense Industry, and those contracts would remain in force and the supply of planes, ships and weapons would not be interrupted by the sequestration deal. Just like corporations, when there is an immediate need to cut costs, the first place to go is headcount reduction.

Do you really think Obama would let 80,000 civilians get laid off??? Not going to happen. He will work with Congressional leaders to rebalance where all those spending cuts take place.

Then the Congress will take up the approporiation bills that make up the budget for FY2013. In each case, Obama will not get the full amount he is asking for. Big Government is on the way out.

The layoffs will not be overnight. The cut is spread across ten years. Nevertheless, the cuts won't happen. The GOP will cave again.

@Peter17: Generally you always blow the "rightwing" bullsh^t. Again, you are true to form. "The president has lost His populist issues"? Not hardly. Regards

The issue of tax rates has been settled. Obama sided with Republicans who have been trying for 12 years to get the temporary Bush tax cuts made "permanent" and signed legislation lowering the tax rates on ALL taxpayers, including billionaires, and giving 99.3% of taxpayers the benefit of all the Bush tax cuts made permanent.

Nonsense. Obama pushed for years to increase taxes on the top 2% and keep them the same for the rest. That is EXACTLY what happened. Rates went up for incomes of $450K and up, and deductions were curtailed for incomes between $250K and $450K.

PS you are not very good at spinning. You are much better at cherry picking data.

not sure what your check looked liked? but I can say for a fact that my taxes went up on me and my wife. and we are under 80k. so the statement only for those 450k does not stand. 2nd thing is why is my insurance cost now have to be included on my w-2's I will promise you that that will be the next thing that the democrats want to tax. 3rd I think all union events costs and fees should be taxed.

McConnell doesn't want to lose the ability to filibuster even his own bills. What an idiot. Can this d**k offer up anything constructive at all? Or just shoot down everyone else (even himself). The little baby and House Republicans have abused the filibuster in record amounts the last 4 years (more than combined usage in all of history). What a childish reaction to an intelligent black man who brought solutions to the problems they created with their unfunded wars and tax breaks to the wealthy. I say it's a damn fine idea to take his toy away now. Maybe it would force them to come up with workable ideas and compromise.

It's not a new tax, it is the end of a stimulus tax break we were given to help improve the economy.

Senator McConnell: Where politicians trade favors in secret

Sol ssmith, why do you suppose Mitch would be against making Senators who are blocking legislation do it in public where we can all see who they are? Power grab? You bet. Grabbing it away from Senators who have abuse the filibuster to place secret holds on mountains of legislation. Make 'em do it the light of day, I say!

Mitch McConnell even filibustered one of his own bills. This jerk and his cohorts have been abusing the filibuster intensively for four years. When they use a tool more in 4 short years than everyone else's combined usage of it over all of American history, then it's time to take it away from them and return it to sane and measured use. I know Mitch along with others swore to make Obama a one term president at any cost, but stalling the economy and any progress didn't work. The black man is still there as much as it bothers these secret sheet wearers. Time to limit their abuse.

like your post dangerous. However I am hopeful that sanity is starting to take hold with the republicans . It is just amazing to me that we are celebrating the republicans decided not to fight us paying our bills.

And to think they used to claim they were fiscally responsible. WHERE???