Only 49 of 233 Republicans in the House voted for Hurricane Sandy relief

Yea 49, Nay 228, not voting 5

Yesterday, Fairfax Bill returned with more of his right-wing nonsense. Obviously his two-month absence was not long enough for him to recover from his Obama Derangement Syndrome and Democrat Demonization Disease. So today, I offer Dr. Dave's Chicken Soup for the Soulless and fact-deficient right-wingers.

Bill is upset with the "...the army of slime on the left [who] would have us believe the U.S. might actually "default" on its debt and push the global economy into chaos." Yes, the army of slime has repeated for the American public precisely what Republicans are threatening to do. In Bill's mind, the person warning you of danger is "slime". The people threatening you? They are Republican friends.

According to Bill, "The U.S. also spends about 6 cents of every dollar on servicing the debt. That means there is PLENTY of cash available to prevent stiffing our bondholders, which is the true metric for default." Right-wingers are unable to grasp the fact that debt is money we have already spent. For Bill, we can pay interest forever and never reduce principle. Now, there's a sound financial plan. Eternal debt for goods and services we've already used. We'll never pay off those bombs we've dropped, we'll just pay interest on them forever.

Bill proposes to cut 34% from the budget in one fell swoop. In Bill's black and white world there are no ramifications to a sudden halt in spending. Besides, let's be honest, doesn't an allegiance to the pro-life forces mean we take health care away from the already born? Doesn't Medicaid just piss us off? Who the hell needs infrastructure, when you've built everything yourself?

All we have to do is use dedicated funds for Social Security and Medicare, and pay the interest on the national debt. (Actually, Bill kinda forgot you can't take money from a dedicated fund for any spending purposes we want. You can only BORROW it. The debt that Bill wants to service? Well, Social Security holds a huge portion of it.) According to Bill, "That means U.S. and global markets need not go into panic mode because from the perspective of our bondholders there would be nothing to panic about. Indeed, all Obama would have to do is issue an unambiguous statement that the U.S. is in no danger of defaulting because we have ample cash available to service our debt."

Of course, we could privatize Social Security and put our money in the Stock Market, because that will be a fabulous investment as the economy collapses. Right? With fewer dollars in the economy, consumption will drop, GDP will decline, tax revenues will decline, and our creditors will see that as signs of a vibrant economy. Lenders adore creditors who continue to borrow without any sign that they will EVER reduce principle. Just kidding. Lenders will cut off credit to such a borrower which means fewer dollars in the economy, consumption will drop, GDP will decline, and tax revenues will decline. Deja vu, anyone?

Silver lining time! By doing nothing to address global warming, which is another of those left-wing conspiracies to give away our money, we'll soon be growing bananas in Minnesota. We're going to be a Banana Republic in so many ways.

The stark truth is that right-wingers live in a world that doesn't extend beyond their nose(s). They flatly do not grasp the presence of government in virtually every aspect of their lives. They cling to the fantasy that they have created the world in which they live. They did that all by themselves. It's always good to end with a bit of humor. Yes?

Interesting comment at 1.3, Pigotry. It looks like even Conservatives are concluding they can't win a fight over the debt ceiling.

Which media outlet isn't tainted or skewed in one bias way or another? We The People are being victimized not only by criminals but by the very Government that is supposed to be working for us. Either way you slice it, the divide will only grow wider. This being simply about children is ludacris. Human life at ANY AGE should be valued.

The NRA has an ad. Obama is going to utilizing children in the background of his speech today. Who isn't being manipulated these days?

Oh wait! was this thread about gun control or the debt ceiling? In that case, I'll add another two cents. The policies of everyone is Washington is flawed regardless of party. I have seen folks speaking of honesty yet We The People are continually lied to in one way or another. Make some real changes to the escalating problems and stop approving The Pork.

Obama ends term with fewer pressers than Bush or Clinton

Gosh Joe, why hold pressers when the press-ies can't understand the message and have to ask the same question over and over again. Why even Peggy Noodle-head can't manage to pull her out of Reagan's decayed ass long enough to present herself as a reasonable journalist on the Sunday talk shows. But, Joe, we digress. Surely, you have more pressing matters, such as downloading that latest NRA sponsored killer app for your iPhone. I mean, you are one who is lock-step-barrel with your NRA buddies. Talk about a sweet investment. You can spend your days sauteing cheap Salmon and playing target practice on All the Presidents Kids. Speaking of which, now that the President's kids are the targets of your propaganda, who's next? Let me guess, you are going to go guns and God on us, and suggest suggest a new APP where you kill the first born of all non-Hebrews. Gotta love conservative extremists. There isn't a target they don't love to shoot.

Six companies own most of the media these days, what kind of fair and balanced reporting do you think is going to happen when one company owns all the media in any particular town. This includes TV, Radio and News papers.

Well the closer we get to hearing what the actual gun control proposals are, the more I'm getting the feeling that there isn't much Obama can do on gun control. He's going to use his executive authority to "enforce laws already on the books" eh? Well have at it. Isn't that part of his job? Regarding the assault weapons ban and a ban on large capacity magazines, it won't pass the house .

Is this what we really want our politicians wasting their time on? An arbitrary ban on one type of gun, but allowing other types which are actually used in over 30 times more deaths each year? We want our politicians spending their time on something which, if passed, will do nothing more than give the illusion that something is being done to prevent gun violence? Seems to me there are more pressing issues to be dealt with.

The fight over debt ceiling is looming; the GOP should just agree to the President’s demand, and should not fight this fight

So, when do we start talking spending cuts, instead of going deeper into debt?

'

Notice that NO ONE is "coming to get our guns."

WRONG.

Straight from the Mouth of a U.S. Government Attorney

The U.S. government argues in federal court (U.S. v. Emerson information page) that there is absolutely no right of an individual to own firearms!

Judge Garwood: "You are saying that the Second Amendment is consistent with a position that you can take guns away from the public? You can restrict ownership of rifles, pistols and shotguns from all people? Is that the position of the United States?"

Meteja (attorney for the government): "Yes"

Garwood: "Is it the position of the United States that persons who are not in the National Guard are afforded no protections under the Second Amendment?"

Meteja: "Exactly."

Meteja then said that even membership in the National Guard isn't enough to protect the private ownership of a firearm. It wouldn't protect the guns owned at the home of someone in the National Guard.

Garwood: "Membership in the National Guard isn't enough? What else is needed?"

Meteja: "The weapon in question must be used IN the National Guard."
(Excerpt of oral arguments in U.S. v. Emerson, 5th Circuit Court of Appeals, June 13, 2000)

hey, ProFreedom-5130956

Gosh, people actually get paid by nbc to post on here? I always wondered how certain ones were always able to be the very first poster.

... a vast left-wing conspiracy?? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

Angry white rednecks got their knickers in a twist, can't stand that they lost the election and damn sure won't listen to reason, cuz any day now the goddamn UN is going to overrun the whole USA and put their children into slavery, right?

I don't know what you are smoking there dude, but maybe you need to put the bong down and step away !

Let them raid Federal Workers Pension funds, they have been raiding Social Security since LBJ.

Everytime the vote on the debt limit came up Obama voted against it, hmmmmmmmmm.

Hello folks, despite which side of the gun argument you are on, the question you have to ask yourself is why does the government and their advocates want to manipulate the 2^nd Amendment? Remember, a prudent person knows that there are two sides to every argument and issue, right. So if you are with me so far, an intelligent person would look at the evidence on both sides of the argument, review the arguments, weigh it, and base their decision after careful consideration, correct?

Now, the right to bear arms is a constitutional right, I don’t think there is much argument there. And the argument by the 2nd Amendment right proponents, let’s call them the hardliners is that there is no need to implement a ban on “assault rifles” because that’s what this is really about. Large magazines are also in the argument but the “assault rifles” is really the target and what’s under fire (no pun intended).

Let’s look at those that want to define the 2^nd Amendment as not including “assault rifles”. Their concern stems from the shootings in Aurora, Co, the Wisconsin Sikh Temple shootings and the Sandy Hook school shootings. The concern is that the “assault rifles” were the cause of the deaths of innocent people and that there isn’t a need for “assault rifles” on the streets of America. These shootings are what they base their evidence on and the Sandy Hook shootings with the killing of children as just cause or as the tipping point. The Main Stream Media has flooded the airwaves with information to corroborate their point. You need go no further then MSNBC to see that even “conservative” Joe Scarborough is leading the charge on banning “assault rifles”.

On the other side of the coin, you have those who think that the Constitution and in this case the 2^nd Amendment is a sacred document and a right that was fought for by our forefathers and that there is a specific reason why the founders incorporated it into the Bill of Rights. The main argument is that the2nd Amendment spells out that people have the right to arm themselves and remove a tyrannical government if it is necessary. They will also point you to mounting evidence that refutes the MSM’s conclusion of what occurred at Sandy Hook. Many point to this video that has received almost 9 million hits that raises and asks fair questions regarding the discrepancies. Note: The majority of the information comes from the Main Stream Media.

The Sandy Hook Shooting - Fully Exposed.

I think that one must look at both sides of the evidence to be fair before drawing a conclusion.

Listen, it's easy to see.

The majority of the people who live in this country are TIRED of listening to these right-wing extremists and we have proved that for the last two elections. We are no longer a country ruled and lorded over by wealthy white men.

The NRA is on the way out. They are losing credibility quickly. The non-extreme population of this country can easily see through this last breath struggle that the NRA is throwing up. They see the end of the tunnel and it is an oncoming train full of rational people tired of cheap political attacks.

NRA RIP

David Walker: A thousand thanks for sticking your oar in with another incisive and spot-on analysis. Really, why aren't you doing your thing in the pages of The Nation, Harper's, or The Progressive, and getting paid for it?

I particularly enjoy watching you figuratively eviscerate the worst of the Wrong wing's obnoxious blowhards, which today means the long-missing and wholly unlamented Bill from Fairfax. (Joe from Albany, I think, is no longer taken seriously by much of anybody; he's not quite as far-gone in fantasyland as bobster, but reading his stuff over the last year or so, it's easy enough to detect a slipping anchor and a faint note of desperation in his squawking.)

You, Ron Indiana, Dennis Columbus: Keep knocking them on the head for us. We'll sweep up the wreckage of the Reptilican Party's ongoing orgy of self-destruction.

jim Whats the pay scale for being a paid troll? Do you get paid by the word or the sentence?

Trust,

You and your ilk are always misquoting the 2nd Ammendment. Why are you afraid to quote the whole Ammendment?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Are those rag-tag rednecks at Ruby Ridge a 'well regulated militia?'

TrustVerify

What you are asking for (look at the evidence on both sides of the argument, review the arguments, weigh it, and base their decision after careful consideration) is actually called a "logical discussion." People don't come here for that.

By the way, I want to apologize for uncivil words to you in the distant past. Sometimes the truth is difficult to hear.

The far right posters here prove that crazy should not win. Thank you President Obama for standing up to these nutty people.

Has anyone noticed that when the Dems are faced with facts they go on a personal attack? Just an observation on this post.

Sorry Smitty but Jim's posts are so stupid and misinformed there's noway anyone would pay him for his posts.

And then there's ProFreedom who's jealous because he can't be first.

@David - one premise of your post points out the conservative simplistic philosophy of government fiscal policy. Dissolving cash in your wallet increases ones ability to spend. Now silly me, I always thought the more cash you had, the more you could spend. And spending leads to production, and production leads to cash creation, which in turn leads to yadda, yadda, yadda. But no, conservatives will tell you what leads to a vibrant economic engine is for the government and the wealthy to hoard all the cash. Somehow, a trillion ga-zillion dollars on a balance sheet equates to a healthy economy. Well gosh, if all the cash is sitting in the vaults of the wealthy and the government, what is the simple commoner suppose to use for spending? Go figure, literally.

Subject: Wisdom then, Wisdom now!!

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a Sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. ...Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here'. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and Grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

SENATOR BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, MARCH 2006

Great post Steve Bro .... and which FOOL rushes in to prove your point ? Look no further than post #1.45 where nothing is said about the article ... only personal attacks because he brings nothing to the table.

Hello BigJeff,

Stipulations of the 2nd Amendment:

The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects the right of the individual to keep and bear firearms.

The right to arm oneself is viewed as a personal liberty to deter undemocratic or oppressive governing bodies from forming and to repel impending invasions. Furthermore, the right to bear arms was instituted within the Bill of Rights to suppress insurrection, participate and uphold the law, enable the citizens of the United States to organize a militia, and to facilitate the natural right to self-defense.

The Second Amendment was developed as a result of the tyrannous rule of the British parliament. Colonists were often oppressed and forced to pay unjust taxes at the hand of the unruly parliament. As a result, the American people yearned for an Amendment that would guarantee them the right to bear arms and protect themselves against similar situations. The Second Amendment was drafted to provide for the common defense and the general welfare of the United States through the ability to raise and support militias.

Job1 I agree "crazy should not win" but it has won in November and the inmates are loose and trying to take over. Crazy is in power now.

All I have is spelling errors? Uh, no. You p#ssed away whatever time you put into your anal-ysis. It's meaningless. You'll never get it back. Now, go suck a salmon!

The New York State Assembly last night passed the Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act of 2013, the first legislation in the nation since the Sandy Hook shootings. It addresses gaping loopholes in it's current gun laws, as well as mental health aspects. In fact, the first 14 items or so are dedicated to this. This may very well be the template for other states to enact SENSIBLE gun laws.

Read it here:

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=%0D%0A&bn=A02388&term=2013&Summary=Y&Text=Y

Job1 = feisty lap dog

Hey, Albany (and any other gun nut out here) --

http://news.yahoo.com/2-killed-1-wounded-shooting-ky-college-045129887.html

A gunman firing into a vehicle killed two people and wounded a juvenile Tuesday as they sat in the parking lot of an eastern Kentucky community college.

Tell me how more guns prevents this.

Tell me how an armed guard at the college would have prevented this.

Tell me how the victims having guns would have prevented this.

The ONLY way to prevent this kind of surprise shooting is for the shooter not to have a gun.

Arming everyone is CRAZY.

Big talk about your Second Amendment rights. Means NOTHING.

Tell it to the families of these victims.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED You are dogging the NRA for using Obama's kids???? Why aren't you dogging Obama for using the Newton kids to push his agenda??? Obama is much more of a hypocrite than the NRA.

Hmmmmmmm. Let me see if I got this right. Our government sells assault weapons to the Mexican drug cartels for use as protection of their drugs they are smuggling into the USA. The drugs are then sold to our children at one heck of a profit. Going back to Mexico the smugglers kill 2 border agents with guns that the bros Obama and Holder sold them. Now Bro Bama and Bro Holder want to ban the semi automatic version of these guns because they are too dangerous for the American public to own. I wouldn't be suprised if the Bro killers in Chicago, who have killed over 500 Inner city bros didnt get their guns from their bros in Washington. Unbelievable. Our Founding fathers are rolling over in their graves.

Gosh, people actually get paid by nbc to post on here?

ProFreedom .. might I suggest you raise your left arm, plant your nose in your pit, and take a whiff. That noxious odor you detect is the smell of a paid troll.

Anna Molly = feisty lap dog

American Taliban = GOP/TeaParty.

Don't worry most of the Sandy aid was pork and the actual victims will never see a dime.

No Jim - what is despicable is how low the thugs at the NRA will stoop.

For your information, the children who will be seen today with the president wrote letters to him after the awful Newtown tragedy. Was it okay for those kids to do this? Sure - so it is perfectly fine for Obama to invite them to the White House to allow them to witness his press conference, close up.

Lets not mince words here: the NRA is now Public Enemy #1. The country has had enough of all of these mass shootings, and the slaughter of little children in their own classrooms was the last straw.

The country is behind you, Mr. President, and will fight with you for this just cause.

To Wayne LaPierre: you are not going to hide behind the 2nd Amendment any longer, you pathetic little coward. We are coming after you and you will lose.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL = TMZ of first read... Any comments on what Ann Romney is wearing today?

Anna Molly - Under Obamas proposal, this insanity of killing these little children would still have happened, no? So, as I been saying this just makes him a panderer. Obama has lived in Chicago for 20 years, and in that time there have been 9,000 gun murders. What has the Panderer said about those? Why won't he address that his and the DEMOCRATS policies ARE the problem. 50+ Chicago Public School children are killed every year, and silence from President Panderer. WHY? Is it because they are minorities, and he already has thier vote?

Justin Tr wrote:

"Why aren't you dogging Obama for using the Newton kids to push his agenda???"

Jesus H. Christ man, are you completely daft? Those kids are dead, blown away by a nut with a semi-automatic with more firepower than any law-abiding citizen needs or will ever need.

To ignore that bloodbath, that carnage, that massacre would be even more horrific than the crime itself. You truly need psychiatric help.

The White House has been using "props" to promote policies for a long, long time; whether it is disabled Vets, teachers, folks in lab coats or even children.

Standing in front of a mountain to talk about the environment....

On an Aircraft carrier to announce the end of hostilities...

It's the selective outrage of the public relations arm of the left or right wing media complex, taken up by the reliable 10-15% on the fringes that drives the public discussion.

The gun lobby is just mad that the other side (for once) has better "optics", and in an attempt to flip the metaphor to their advantage, seem to have shot themselves in their collective foot,,,

@ geo --

Under Obamas proposal, this insanity of killing these little children would still have happened, no? So, as I been saying this just makes him a panderer.

No, it wouldn't have, and yes, there's pandering involved, but that doesn't equate to a justification for doing nothing.

Sorry, Charlie.

Republican 062578 --

Anna Molly = feisty lap dog

Oops. Guess again.

Nobody's lap dog, but I could do worse.

And whosever lapdog you are, you obviously have.

The rush to purchase guns demonstrates that a groundswell of public awareness is growing. The hoops designed to make gun ownership burdensome or personal carry permits nearly impossible to obtain, need to be endured and applied for in greater numbers.

The system is playing a bluff. Push back now will spare bloodshed later. Never initiate any action that can be construed as violent behavior. Public political speech is the most skillful weapon to use, when exposing the oppressors.

Rule by executive orders is a formula for tyrannical governance. Gun registration builds the database for constabulary confiscation. An organized knock at the door means that abolition of banned munitions from the “Cold Dead Hands” will look more like a visit from an IRS tax auditor than an assault from the nearest SWAT team.

Few polarizing subjects are more hotly debated than gun control. Usually lost in the fray of emotional diatribes to ban guns, are the historic empirical foundations of our forefathers who fought a revolution to escape from imperial tyranny. The true reality in today’s AmeriKa is that individual liberty is the most despised activity that any citizen can exert in their lives. Both the popular state worship culture and the authoritarian hoodlums that run the government are so fearful of armed independent citizens, that they are eager to burn the Bill of Rights. Face it, the government is committed to force you to be a ward of the state and will kill you if you resist.

When I hear people talk about “gun violence,” I wonder what has happened to language. A gun is an inanimate object. An inanimate object cannot cause violence. Humans cause violence. The relevant question is: why do humans cause violence? This obvious question seldom gets asked. Instead, inanimate objects are blamed for the actions of humans.

The “War on Liberty” needs to be fought for the minds and hearts of all judicious thinking citizens. Guns are not the issue, recapturing your heritage and exercising your God given rights is the struggle. The state of war is on. Fight it with fervor, while maintaining your dignity. Nothing less would dishonor your defiant forebearers.

Not unlike promises made that your taxes weren't going up (how's that working out for you on FICA folks) promises of not coming for guns is just one more hollow promise from a hollow administration.

This goes that way it appears to be going and it's going to get real sporty out there in this country.

BO will go down in history as the most divisive US President ever. No other POTUS will be even close. I really hope our union survives his divisiveness. For the first time in my life i fear for the union of the USA.

Jon-998022

The Obamabots worship him, and follow him blindly.

Big Jeff I guess that the gun manufacturers lobby the NRA is a "well regulated militia' in its way of their thinking!! But sounds as if they don't like regulation and should edit the second admendment by deleting the word regulated.

Gee, Justin, would the President be ATTACKING Newtown children? Or would he be helping them to understand that the President and the nation takes their plight seriously?

I can't think of anything more reassuring to a traumatized child than the President meeting with them, and dealing with their fears.

God, get a clue, and while you are there, get another clue.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

I think you should seek professional help for your OCD,

Anna Molly - Thanks for the honesty. Maybe you can help David Walker understand that there is little to be done in a country like America that was founded with guns. What laws would have prevented a psyco from killing his mom stealing her guns and murdering 26 people? None. I just can not understand how the 9,000 gun murders in Chicago over his 20 years living there, and the 50+ kids killed every year there, why now try to do something?

My two non-copper pennies or so...

1) The Second Amendment, like all The Bill Of Rights is a LIVING document, to be updated as needed for society---Amendments that reflect society being altered are historical here--Slavery ending, Women's vote, the list goes on. The Amendments were never meant to be treated as carved in stone. They are Amendments, not Commandments. They were written by men who anticipated that change would happen. To use The Second Amendment as an excuse to keep the ability to mass-murder is foolish to begin with, but....

2) The NRA was once a respectable organization, as was the House of Reps, as was The GOP. Now, profit-mongering overwhelms all. We must remember that regardless of what GOP extremists and NRA extremists say, there is only one motivation--it's not the economy, it's not the Second Amendment, it's not your rights as a citizen, it's not their version of Christianity, and it's definitely not The United States or its Constitution. They are motivated by PROFIT. PERIOD. They have used their media power to scare people for over two decades now to get their ways. They have no other desire but to profit off the backs of citizens--liberals and conservatives. They don't CARE what you want as long as you vote for them and buy their 'everything' tangible and less tangible.

The only way to fight such people is knowledge. We must remain aware of all the things and shut our minds to rhetoric. When we ask a question, and a GOP or NRA or Ted Nugent refuses to answer or won't--we must press for the truth.

There is no silver bullet for either gun control or the debt ceiling. But listening to these extremists who fan flames of fear is not the way.

BTW, a true conservative is someone who resists change. These people want to go backwards. Perhaps we should refer to them as 'Regressives'. Since they want to label people, let's see how it works for them.

The President doesn't care about this nation's kids, but only his own. It's just another question of telling the poor that they can't have what he does. President Obama is an elitist. I would have to agree with the NRA on this one.

If he really wanted to put into play gun laws, rather than focus on gun control, he should propose a new bill that all schools should have armed guards at each entrance.

Afterall, these children were left unarmed, but if they had been, there would be no way a shooter would have been able to kill that many students.

California Tom

Ban assult weapons, Ban large ammo magazines. Just these two restrictions will save hundreds of lives every year. The majority of Repugs will say NO. They are at the mercy of the big donors, including GUN AND AMMO MANUFACTURERS. Can I blame them? YES. Their jobs and donations are more important to them than the lives of Children and their Mothers and Fathers. They know no shame. Disgusting.

Mr. President, stand up to these cowards and help save our Children.

Can you link to the source on which you are basing your figure? Or is it the same source as everyone else, their emotions? Do you know what the leading cause of death is in the United States? It's suicide. We don't have a gun problem in America, we have a mental health crisis. People aren't getting the help they need and they take their own lives and/or the lives of others. Everyone seems to be focusing on the tool (guns) not the source (mental illness) of these tragedies. The primary reason is because it has always been on the progressive agenda to eliminate guns. Liberals feel that because they don't personally see the need for a gun, that nobody in the country needs one. For other regions that grow up around guns, that use them for hunting and sport shooting with friends and family, they are a way of life, so when you talk about taking away SOME guns (what do you think the assault weapon ban is??), you're trying to legislate away a piece of a person's heritage and tradition. Punishing the millions of honest, law-abiding gun owners for the actions of 2 individuals is wrong. It's an ignorant, uneducated reaction to ban assault rifles. If you wanted to reduce gun violence, then ban pistols. They are used in well over 80% of all violent shootings. But that's not what is going on here. The president and democrats don't really give a hoot about the kids that they will be exploiting on the stage this afternoon; they only care about eroding away an amendment that they don't like. They won't just pass legislation to take away all guns overnight. They'll ban certain types and require others to be registered. Then at the next opportunity to exploit a tragedy, they'll expand the list of banned arms until nothing is left. We already watered down amendments 4-8 because of the knee-jerk reaction to 9/11. Once the second amendment is de-fanged, which one will be next? The 1st? 13th? 15? Remember, once you give up a liberty, you will never get it back.

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Ben Franklin

Sorry Smitty but Jim's post are so stupid and misinformed there's noway anyone would pay him for his posts.

this coming from one of the biggest idiots and misinformed posters.

Way back in ancient times of yesterday, Lefty Libs were touting how lucky we should be to be allowed to keep our muzzle loaded guns and flintlock pistols in the event the redcoats do come. aside from that an AR's sole reason is to kill humans rapidly. Unfortunately the 'assault rifle' moniker has been applied to scary looking (to a lib) guns. Most of the libs have no idea what a semi auto is, what a clip is, what a magazine is, what a collapsible stock is, what a bullpup stock is. One poster yesterday tried to peddle the BS that since the US has nukes, guns were obsolete to its citizenery, that the NRA has everyone in fear. Now Barry himself said there wouldnt be abuse of the E.O. priveldge in a Barry admin. But in Barry's warped little mind, he might be right. Since he fancies himself King or Emperor or Chairman, or whatever title he would like to bestow upon himself, his use of E.O. technically isnt an abuse.

One poster yesterday in ancient times also stated that the GW Bush presidency was the closest that the US came to a Facist state. I asked for said poster to show the differences between a Facist G DUB and King Barry's Court. silence befell. I truly believe our 'intellectual' libbies want to see a Sole Ruler to move things 'Forward'. I think Geo Lucas touched on this in the star wars series.

The gun lobby is just mad that the other side (for once) has better "optics",

I think its beyond just better optics. Perhaps Gadsden was on to something after all.

"So, when do we start talking spending cuts, instead of going deeper into debt?"

LOL, you're a silly guy Steven B. This isn't about spending cuts at all. It's about keeping the spending as it has been, if not more. LOL, you really think that either party is going to reduce how much money they can get to spend? Getting this government to cut back, is the same as asking a drug addict to ignore the table full of his favorite drugs that is in front of him. Neither will ever happen, until both are locked up in rehab or a jail cell.

Hi Trust.

Even the Supreme Court agrees that the 2nd Amendment doesn't allow carte blanche.

The Court listed many longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession as being consistent with the Second Amendment.

That's my issue. I'm arguing that the 2nd Amendment doesn't necessarily guarantee the right to own military style assault weapons.

You say, "The right to arm oneself is viewed as a personal liberty to deter undemocratic or oppressive governing bodies from forming and to repel impending invasions. Furthermore, the right to bear arms was instituted within the Bill of Rights to suppress insurrection, participate and uphold the law, enable the citizens of the United States to organize a militia, and to facilitate the natural right to self-defense."

Viewed by whom? That is not how I interpret the one sentence that addresses the issue of personal arms.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

THE DOG AND PONY SHOW WILL CONTINUE!

Barrack Hussein will attempt his typical bleeding-heart emotionally driven intrusion into our Constitution again.

Of course he'll have his Conga line of police officers and little children who Debbie Whatsername Slutz, David Axlehead and Gay Carney wrote the letters for them wrote letters to him there to exploit this issue even more. This of course to tug at the heartstrings of the easily manipulated little lemming Liberal/Progressive base that doesn't believe in Freedom and Liberty for Americans.

More symbolism over substance. More "Bread and Circuses" to deflect his true goal of banning all guns if not for his sordid gratification, for the UN and their attempt to be the global weapon administrator.

Once again the limp-wristed Liberals/Progressives will follow in goose-step as their Freedoms and Liberties protected by the Constitution are slowly stripped from them under the guise of some fleeting "safety".

Of course the actions of a few mentally deficient miscreants, most of which who are Liberals, will cause the law abiding real Americans to lose some of their Rights. Barrack Hussein doesn't care about Rights. Hell he doesn't even believe the Constitution is a "Charter of Negative Liberties", and the Liberal/Progressive cabal submissively genuflects to his self-aggrandizement.

We'll all be embarrassed to watch Barrack Hussein make himself the centerpiece of this issue rather than the real problem, the mental health issues that Liberals have exploited since the 1950's.

Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Of course the Liberals/Progressives don't realize that no other Right in the Bill of Rights has the peculiar rider, "shall not be infringed".

Shall not be infringed means CAN NEVER BE VIOLATED, it means, CAN NEVER BE LEGISLATED AGAINST, it means CAN NEVER BE REMOVED.

We'll see how much the Constitutional professor POTUS allows this to be abused and usurped.

Not that he or the other criminal Liberal/Progressive cabal will care as long as they get more power and We The People lose more of ours.

It will be interesting to see if the proposals will be effective in reducing the murder rate. We have tried stoning, beheading, drawing and quartering, hanging, electrocution, lethal injection and incarceration to name a few solutions maybe this one will catch on and people will quit killing each other.

@Feisty - you just described yourself - a mentally unstable, angry coward!

Research Sandy Hook Shootings. Something isn't right. something seems really wrong with everything about this. Too many holes in the story. The time line is inconsistent. This may be one of the greatest hoaxes of this President so far. To fast To furious. I know they like to hop a crisis but they were waiting in the shadows on this one...look into this the rabbit hole goes straight down the hell...where are the world elite hang out.

This has fall of freedom written all over it? You feel it I know you do...something isn't right, with this or with this administration...you feel don't you??

When will these gun control idiots get it through their thick skulls that stricter gun laws do not,and will not work! Law abiding gun owners don't shoot up schools,rob bodegas,or carjack people! Gun control is a fake "feel good like we care" kind of lunacy. Crime control and stiffer punishment for repeat offenders is what's needed. How many gangbangers are let out of jail for the tenth time only to commit another gun related crime? You wanna really stop gun violence? Don't take MY guns. Go down to the crackhouses and "gang cribs" down the street and take theirs first! Then your doing something.

lol- love it when I hit a nerve- means more of the truth is emerging, eh libbies?

a country like America that was founded with guns.

Yet another confusing message from the right wing extremists. During the health care debate, America was founded by 'real' Christians. Now the claim is America was founded with guns. So which is it, God or guns. I guess the new talking point is the country was founded by God and Guns. No surprise there!!

geo --

Maybe you can help David Walker understand that thier is little to be done in a country like America that was founded with guns. What guns laws could have been made to stop a psyco from killing his mom, stealing her guns and murdering 26 people? None?

You completely misunderstand me. The fact that there are already 300 million guns on the streets is not a justification for doing nothing.

If you saw that someone had given your child a bag of candy without your permission, would you say to that child, oops, candy is bad for you, but we live in a culture of candy, and if I took it away, you'd just get it somewhere else, so there's nothing I can do about that?

Or would you take the candy away?

You may not be able to get all the guns back or prevent all the shootings. But if you could do something to get some of the guns, to prevent some of the shootings, and to prevent even more guns getting out there, why is that not worth the effort?

I'll answer that for you. Because as a culture, we're just plain lazy.

Just look at Congress. Congress has robbed Social Security blind, and instead of demanding that they find a way to put the money back, instead we acquiesce in the illogical argument that Grandma should pay for the theft.

We're too lazy to take responsibility for the mistakes we've made and to do the right thing.

So, we continue to do the exact wrong things. And people will continue to die.

Hey, Albany

___________________________

AM: "You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Then who the hell else are you talking... you talking to me? Well I'm the only one here. Who the f**k do you think you're talking to? Oh yeah? OK."

Now, THAT was a great movie!!

Welcome back AM :~)

I see the Lowbrows are banging their clubs on the floor in the back of the cave this morning (fear keeps them from stepping out into the light).

It's beyond any reasonable person's comprehension how anyone can believe that the solution to the violence plaguing this nation is more guns.

Mickey - that is the great thing about what the founders envisioned for our nation. If a state wants to pass such laws, great. As long as the limits placed by the state, city, etc. is not unconstitutional, it should be handled at the state level.

J SPence, liberals believe a well regulated militia means the EPA is in charge of the Army.. DOLTS..

I'm arguing that the 2nd Amendment doesn't necessarily guarantee the right to own military style assault weapons.

looking like a military style weapon and functioning like one are two different things. This is how I know you know nothing about firearms. Besides you think in 1775 the Continental Army was using military style Flintlocks vs civilian style ones?

Jack in Portsmouth

I see the Lowbrows are banging their clubs on the floor in the back of the cave this morning (fear keeps them from coming out into the light).

Hey Jackoff if that were the case, whats this discussion on guns? Perhaps this was some sort of self projection. Atta boy then

How many out here understand, that the debt ceiling won't be raised by billions of dollars, but by trillions of dollars? So, this tells you that debt reduction will happen? If you believe it will, please don't hold your breath for it, not if you want to stick around long enough to see a debt reduction never happen. In the mean time, count the money you have left at the end of each month, and add it to the money you're going to have to keep back from other bills you now have, so you can send it to the government in order to keep their bills paid. And that isn't counting paying back what raising the debt ceiling by trillions of dollars will do to the national debt.

There is a simple solution for all this bickering on whether or not the 2nd amendment means this or that. We can all agree that the founding fathers meant the consitution to be a living document. That is why they created a due process for adding and subtracting from the amendments. It's called a Consitutional Convention whereby states ratify changes to the Consitution. For those of you who don't like or agree with the 2nd amendment, I exhort you to contact your legislator and press for "Change" that actually conforms to the law of the land. Anything else, including going around this established due process and perverting the ORIGINAL meaning, is treason. The current tyranical administration and their ilk seem to be contemplaing a war on the Constitution. I can assure you that freedom fighters, including myself are ready to stand up and protect this great nation and it's Constitution.

Wow this NRA is going nuts over here. I guess people are use to congress being this nuts and outrages but a private group like this... this is the kind of things you see a group do when it is circling the drain and needs a hail Mary type event to try and save them. The add is asking us to compare the Obama children to your own so that you can come to the conclusion that if armed guards are needed to protect THE FIRST FAMILY CHILDREN then your own children should be protected. I have a son and he is more important to me the the Obama kids but I am not the president of the US. I'm just a payroll manager. I am not a publicly elected official!

I hate when people play the race card. But I hate dog whistles even more... I believe this add is targeting old white men and saying.. "Hey old white guy! Are the black Obama girls more important than your white kids and grand kids? No?? Well, Obama says they are. Let's get'm boys!!" Am I the only one that sees this?

The Sandy Hook "Truthers" represent a new low in conspiracy theory creepiness...

RedDevPS - You really don't think America was founded with God and Guns? Wow. Can you please tell me again how nice Chicago is! Only 9 shootings this weekend. Obama's former Chief of Staff is doing a hell of a job. Chicago, the western hemispheres most murderous city! Brought to you by Obama and his fellow liberal Democrats! Please take full credit for Chicagos gun related murders you earned it.

TrustVerify-

When I hear people talk about “gun violence,” I wonder what has happened to language. A gun is an inanimate object. An inanimate object cannot cause violence. Humans cause violence. The relevant question is: why do humans cause violence? This obvious question seldom gets asked. Instead, inanimate objects are blamed for the actions of humans.

That is a simplistic argument. Of course it is the human who does the killing, the gun just makes it much easier to kill multiple people very quickly.

Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people. I don't remember the source but I heard recently that "maybe guns don't kill people, but it sure is hard to push a bullet through someone's head with your fingers".

ALSO - just a few weeks after blaming the "violent" video game industry for being partially responsible for the Newtown incident, the NRA released a new app. It is called "Practice Range" and allows users to shoot at a "body target' with a red spot for aiming at the heart. It allows you to upgrade to an AK-47 or a MK-11 sniper rifle for an additional 99 cents.

Oh, and the NRA claims it is suitable for ages "4 and up".

http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=dec5dd94-931d-4d3d-bf84-8d4b6a366510&ocid=ansmony11

Hypocritical much?

Chicago police just found another cache of automatic weapons. Not semi-automatic. There is a ban on these. The ban didn't work. They will be quickly replaced. Those are the facts. Name-calling is wasting your time not mine. It's lame, proves nothing, and is for children.

Geo - I simply wasn't aware that Chicago was the first city founded in this country. WTF does death by gun in Chicago have to do with the founding of this country?

The Sandy Hook "Truthers" represent a new low in conspiracy theory creepiness...

I think this entire 'debate' is a new low for humanity. Bad people (or crazy people) do bad things regardless. Bandaid Artierial bleeding because you feel like a good samaritan afterwords (not saying you in particular).

"The Sandy Hook "Truthers" represent a new low in conspiracy theory creepiness..."

Not as bad as those who keep falling for all of the political party rhetoric from both sides.

JSpence --

Shall not be infringed means CAN NEVER BE VIOLATED, it means, CAN NEVER BE LEGISLATED AGAINST, it means CAN NEVER BE REMOVED.

We'll see how much the Constitutional professor POTUS allows this to be abused and usurped.

Short answer: No, it doesn't mean that.

The fact that the President is a Constitutional Law professor and you are not ought to tell you something.

The Constitution can always be amended, and has been amended 27 times.

Moreover, Constitutional rights are never absolute, and are always subject to reasonable regulation. That's true for the Second Amendment as well as the First Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment, and all of the amendments that purport to be absolute. For example:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redressof grievances.

and --

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated ....

Oh, like that's never happened.

Seriously.

But be sure that you visit the families of the Newtown victims and the families of the latest victims in Kentucky and explain your viewpoint to them, okay? I'm sure they'll be very receptive to your logic.

Or lack thereof.

@ Albany --

Who else would I be talking to? Nice to see you, too, Joe.

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• The NRA is a terrorist organization (in case you didn't already know this). There is no place in american politics for an extremist organization like this!

Does anyone still remember the President wiping his eyes while talking about the Newtown shootings? This is the man who ordered the killing of OBL and then watched it happen. These killings got to him and he is going to do something about it. Go Prez! I got your back.

That New York gun law is pretty good. It will only affect the radicals. All of my firearms, both long and short, already meet the letter of this law. This law should be made the national standard.

The tax part of the economic debate is settled. Next up is what to cut. Since the total military bill is over half of the budget, that is the place to start the cuts. The largest military base in the world is Fort Hood in Texas.

The Federal Pie Chart

Who else would I be talking to?

_____________________________

AM: Tell me you didn't miss the reference I was making.

The NRA sounds like it is threatening the president and our government. It has to be stopped and now maybe it is the time to end this crazy organization. Of course, the presidents kids have guards. All presidents children have for decades! To guard them from the nuts the that the NRA has armed. Free speech does not include threats from the NRA!

The NRA is no longer a group of respected and respectful gun owners - who realize the danger of the guns they own. It is now a group owned and run by the gun manufacturers and used to scare the less intelligent into believing the government is going to come take over their lives. They could not care less about those killed by people who should never own guns and guns that should not be owned by individuals.

They care only about selling more and more guns - the bigger and deadlier the better. After all - it's about the dollars and cents. Their total lack of morals and value is growing day by day and they make their sales pitches to appeal to those with diminished mental capacity.

It's a sad day when a group that was once honest and respectful stoops so low.

Unhappy - you're also very unintelligent. Armed guards at a school probably would not have stopped anything because the guard would have been caught off guard. Unless he/she was already gun in hand the chances of stopping the shooter would be miniscule.

And, what about theatres? Hospitals? Restaurants? Retail stores? Do you just want armed guards on every street corner????

@ Albany --

Pay for the taxi and I'll tell you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkpes3dgzg

DeNiro's my hero. And the reference is perfect.

Caesar --

I think this entire 'debate' is a new low for humanity. Bad people (or crazy people) do bad things regardless. Bandaid Artierial bleeding because you feel like a good samaritan afterwords (not saying you in particular).

No. Claiming that you can't do anything about it while victims continue bleeding to death is a new low for humanity.

RedDevBS - I was referring to our previous exchange were you told me how livalbe Chicago and LA were. But please comment on how Democratic disease has killed so many Chicagoans.

Admit it now you right wing conservatives! The NRA has gone too far and become a sponsor of terrorism! End it and the group today!

There is one reason and one reason only for Obama and his minions of Left Wing Lunatics wanting to abolish assault weapons and the magazines that go with them.
The reason should be obvious to everyone and probably is, but the LWNJ's don't want people looking at it.
Things are going to get much worse in this country long before they get better. The very fiber of our nations financial situation is tattered and torn. We have to borrow money from foreign countries to make ends meet. Corporations are only hiring people with salaries that barely exceed the minimum wage. Farmers have so many restrictions to battle and costs skyrocketing to a point that food and dairy products are becoming more than many families can afford.
The end result could very easily swing to a state where people begin to take what they want/need because they can't pay for them.
Chaos would ensue and the real threat of people across the country revolting against our government would be the end result when the police find that they can't stop the threat.
The last thing Obama or the rest of our government wants is to go to war against a well armed militia.Obama knows this and he is already trying to curb the real possibility of this happening by saying that we need to take away assault weapons and the ammunition for those weapons.
This is the only reason anyone is having this discussion.

If people really care about protecting their constitutional rights from domestic enemies, they will have to get off their arses and show it.

If Obama uses executive order to (illegally) route congress and restrict 2nd amendment rights, then millions of armed Americans should go straight to D.C. and surround the White House as a show of force. Their numbers will our-gun police and military forces on the ground. This could send a powerful message: We the people ARE the government: YOU WORK FOR US! WE ARE NOT YOUR SUBJECTS!

BTW, I am liberal in the sense that I believe in liberty and freedom, I am NOT a neo-communist "progressive".

The NRA is no longer a group of respected and respectful gun owners - who realize the danger of the guns they own. It is now a group owned and run by the gun manufacturers and used to scare the less intelligent into believing the government is going to come take over their lives. They could not care less about those killed by people who should never own guns and guns that should not be owned by individuals.

You seem to be terrified of 'Assault Rifles'. Looks like Obama and the libs have tapped the other side of the low Info troglodytes. care to define Assault Rifle Seeking? Please do. Well maybe you can talk of banning Hi Cap 'Clips'. Put those dual Duke Masters to use.

No. Claiming that you can't do anything about it while victims continue bleeding to death is a new low for humanity.

take no offense AM but i take your opinion with a grain of salt on this subject. when you have no idea what the difference between a clip and magazine is yet lobby for doing something, anything on banning assault weapons, I find your 'point' moot. as far as im concerned it is emotion based rhetorical nonsense.

DeNiro's my hero. And the reference is perfect.

______________________________

Thanks

Proud 2B Liberal

I am liberal in the sense that I believe in liberty and freedom, I am NOT a neo-communist progressive

I think it's well past time for an alternative ideology to emerge. It's not about deomcrat vs. republican anymore. The fight is liberty vs. tyranny.

Theres a problem with that, none of the first ten ammendments have been regulated ever constitutionaly. If this is our thought process than lets just say that freedom of religion means you are free to be catholic or protestant, that freedom of speach means you can talk about the government admiringly or not at all. If we start looking at our rights in this light than why not do away with the pesky 4th ammendment, imagine all the criminals we would catch way easier!

American Taliban - With logic like that, expect a call from the Obama Administration.

Jedi- you should go back to Mom's basement and immerse yourself in Star Wars. What utter stupidity. My guess is you still want to personally look at the President's Birth Certificate, right???

Any idiots who play the conspiracy game on Sandy Hook are beyond sick and demented.

kick, kick, kick.....

they will raise the debt, the Dem will not allow cuts, they will only want to raise taxes on the rich (they need to raise taxes on ALL and make changes (cuts!) to our entitlement programs, SS, Medicare, etc). We will do nothing meaningful until we have a debt/GDP ratio of 120% so we can experience the "Greece" meltdown....

BOTH parties do not have a clue! When we have the Greece experience, we will have riots and this may the real reason we will need gun control.

I want to have faith in our government, but this president, and both parties will not do what is in the best interest of this country... it all about re-election.

Judging by many of the posting, I can see that many do not care about what will happen, they only care about themselves and what they can get form the government...can care less if we can afford it. But I will admit that you do provide some interesting entertainment ;o)

Have a great day.

American Taliban = GOP/TeaParty.

They are all ready millions of them out there, they will never go away. And what difference does it make what kind of gun a gangbanger uses.

BigJeff:

Viewed by whom?

The Short list:

"It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right." -- conclusion from SCOTUS in DC v Heller, 2008

"Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms ... THE RIGHT OF THE CITIZENS TO BEAR ARMS IS JUST ONE GUARANTEE AGAINST ARBITRARY GOVERNMENT, one more safeguard, against the tyranny which now appears remote in America BUT WHICH HISTORICALLY HAS PROVEN TO BE ALWAYS POSSIBLE." -- Hubert H. Humphrey

"The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The second amendment means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government." -- The Supreme Court of the United States, in U.S. v. Cruikshank 1876

"By calling attention to ‘a well regulated militia,’ ‘the security of the nation,’ and The RIGHT OF EACH CITIZEN ‘to keep and bear arms,’ our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy... The Second Amendment STILL remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships in which EVERY CITIZEN MUST BE READY TO PARTICIPATE IN THE DEFENSE OF HIS COUNTRY. For that reason I believe the Second Amendment will ALWAYS be important." -- John F. Kennedy

” `The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.’ The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, and not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree; and all this for the important end to be attained: the rearing up and qualifying a well-regulated militia, so vitally necessary to the security of a free State. Our opinion is that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right.” -- Nunn vs. State

"In , 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT to POSSESS a firearm, UNCONNECTED to service in a militia and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes..." (POSSESS: verb - To have in one's actual control; To have possession of. Black's Law Dictionary, 8th ed.)

Interesting that these decisions show that the Second Amendment is absolute.

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I notice many on this board use "opinion" rather than actual fact or actual law. And we all know what opinions are like... And then they say "The Courts" have the final say... If so, explain PROHIBITION. When it comes down to it, The People have the FINAL say. Here are certain facts to eliminate the "opinions".

As ratified by the States:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

One comma to separate two phrases. As such, we can switch the phrases and still have the same exact meaning.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, As a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state."

But then we run into the stumbling block that many do not fully understand: "Well Regulated Militia".

In order to understand what exactly that is, we must use the dictionaries used by the courts and meanings of the day when it was drafted. This is what the definitions ARE:

"Well Regulated" is defined as: well equipped, well ordered and well trained...

"Militia" is defined as: A body of CITIZENS ARMED and trained, esp. by a state*, for military service APART FROM the regular armed forces. -- reserve militia. ALL persons who are not exempt from military service and not actively serving in the armed forces OR national guard. -- Black's Law Dictionary 8th Edition

So we can put this into lay terms and end up with the more precise meaning as being:

"Well equipped, well ordered and well trained ARMED CITIZENS being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

-- or --

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, as well equipped, well ordered and well trained ARMED CITIZENS is necessary to the security of a free state."

*"Esp. by a state" is separated because the law does NOT REQUIRE it to be managed BY the state. HOWEVER, private militias MUST follow and abide by Constitutional Law. See Idaho Militia for reference.

ALL laws restricting firearms ARE unconstitutional and therefore unlawful, and thereby unenforceable... {Unconstitutional Official Acts -- 16 Am Jur 2d, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256}

This is evident today as it was reported that Arnold Schwarzenegger bought a tank a couple weeks ago...

Note to those saying we need to change the Amendment. Give it a try! But don't be too surprised that none of the States, let alone the People of those States, are going to be too willing to give up their sovereignty...

More name-calling from Speeking Insanity at #1.123 as she attacks others ? Why am I not surprised ??

I do hope the few intelligent people remaining in the Republican party are willing to just increase the debt ceiling, without trying to write future spending levels into the law. The GOP has already had two opportunities to make the cuts to government spending and have not done so. They put forth a budget which would not pass and did not make cuts in appropriations bills.

The debt ceiling fight is a battle over whether the United States of America honors its promise to pay the obligations it has already incurred or if the Republican controlled House of Representatives has decided that our government is no better than that of Greece, Ireland, Portugal or even Mexico and will default. The Democratic party and the Senate have already indicated they will raise the debt ceiling level. It is only those GOP members interested in destroying the world that want to have a fight.

In the future, the Congress will have ample opportunity to address spending. Part of that will be a need to look at the tax laws. If the government gives an industry $10billion dollars directly, or allows them to take deductions so that the revenue received from that industry is $10billion less, the end result is the same, the debt of the nation increases by $10billion. Every method of spending must be looked at for the result.

Caesar Augustus-

J SPence, liberals believe a well regulated militia means the EPA is in charge of the Army.. DOLTS..

LMAO!!!!!

And of course, if they had it their way the militia would be unionized also.

Liberalism is a disease and, just like the flu, it must be eliminated.

Caesar Augustus --

I find your 'point' moot. as far as im concerned it is emotion based rhetorical nonsense.

LoL I have to say this is the first time I ever thought of you as a psycho-babble spewing buffoon.

It doesn't matter how many rounds, clips, or magazines ... dead is still dead.

Make you a deal. You just keep standing there, watching people die, while denying that you could have done anything to prevent it, and I'll keep trying to apply the bandaids.

You'd better hope there isn't a Heaven. Or a Hell.

Actually, as per the 2ed amendment, citizens have no Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. The fact that we do is based on a need at the time for Militias, then, absent that need, time held tradition, and on into, as today " an assumptive right. This amendment is worded much like the rights and restrictions of the document placed on Indians and slaves of the time. The assumption, relative and logical to the language of the amendment has no basis other than tradition. Has nary a thing to do with the sovereignty of a US state. The Constitution was written as a national document, or a document of the state of the world.

Does this mean El Duce is going to stop killing innocent children with his drone attacks....or just use more firepower?

I sure don't remember this type of anti-gun rhetoric from the liberal base when Darrell Issa was trying to find out what happened to all those guns as a result of Fast and Furious. Why the change of heart liberals?

"The NRA is a terrorist organization (in case you didn't already know this). There is no place in american politics for an extremist organization like this!"

As there is no room in this forum for screaming agenda shills.

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• The latest from ABC/WaPo
• "Would you support or oppose a law requiring a nationwide ban on high-capacity ammunition clips, meaning those containing more than 10 bullets?"
• Support = 65%

Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion.That is “trillion” with a “T.” That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President’s budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion.

Numbers that l...arge are sometimes hard to understand. Some people may wonder why they matter. Here is why: This year, the Federal Government will spend $220 billion on interest. That is more money to pay interest on our national debt than we’ll spend on Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. That is more money to pay interest on our debt this year than we will spend on education, homeland security, transportation, and veterans benefits combined. It is more money in one year than we are likely to spend to rebuild the devastated gulf coast in a way that honors the best of America.

And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the Federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.

Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America’s priorities.

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a Sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. ...Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here'. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and Grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

SENATOR BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, MARCH 2006

Priceless

LoL I have to say this is the first time I ever thought of you as a psycho-babble spewing buffoon.

what a liar, no it isnt the first.

It doesn't matter how many rounds, clips, or magazines ... dead is still dead.

you're smarter than you look, but hardly a case for banning 'assault weapons'. i can assault you with a car and you'll be dead as a door nail...BAN BAN BAN eh?

You just keep standing there, watching people die, while denying that you could have done anything to prevent it, and I'll keep trying to apply the bandaids.

how many deaths have you seen? thanks for the emotional nonsensical rhetoric.

You'd better hope there isn't a Heaven. Or a Hell.

*gasp* a liberal passing judgement..get out of here. Wringe those hands AM...

You have DeNiro as your hero, we know he never made gun violence look so good...

^One was a politically motivated witch hunt, the other has to do with enacting substantial law reforms to prevent widespread violence.

supposed constitutional law professor @AM...nobody has seen any proof of what he actually did at Harvard. aside from getting parking tickets

seriousordelirious - Let's see, he headed Harvard Law Review which requires great grades and a lot of respect from the rest of the students - as well as an outstanding knowledge of law. I'm pretty sure he walks circles around the entire group of candidates the Republican party put up so what is your point? Oh, that's right - you have no point - just total ignorance!

Mac Forester:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcE5wjCrQ1c

Get an education... {#1.126}

"Any idiots who play the conspiracy game on Sandy Hook are beyond sick and demented.'

And this is coming from someone who buys into a government that is trashing the Constitution? Before you call others sick and demented, look in the mirror first.

Hey, American Taliban...... 1.2 MILLION children are MURDERED every year in the United States and nothing is said.... 26 are killed by a deranged madman & we must give up our rights......

The left never makes any sense

Caesar --

what a liar, no it isnt the first.

Guilty, as charged.

you're smarter than you look,

Gee, thanks. Coming from you, that's really sweet.

but hardly a case for banning 'assault weapons'.

And hardly a case for not banning them, either. But I'm not just talking about assault weapons.

i can assault you with a car and you'll be dead as a door nail...BAN BAN BAN eh?

I'd like to see you try it, buffoon. I'm sure that someone out of the many who carry concealed handguns in this state would see you coming and shoot you first.

Just like in Kentucky.

LosMan123

The add is asking us to compare the Obama children to your own so that you can come to the conclusion that if armed guards are needed to protect THE FIRST FAMILY CHILDREN then your own children should be protected. I have a son and he is more important to me the the Obama kids but I am not the president of the US. I'm just a payroll manager. I am not a publicly elected official!

NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!!

LosMan123, you are NOT just a payroll manager!

You are an American citizen!

And as an American citizen you have attendant Rights, Freedoms and Liberties.

Barrack Hussein is an American citizen!

The “Obama kids” are American citizens!

ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS ARE PROTECTED EQUALLY BY THE BILL OF RIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!

You Libbies need to STOP worshipping at the altar of the Federal government, you’re being reduced to insignificance by the statist elitists in our corrupt criminal government.

Barrack Hussein is no more important than you, your children, your family or neighbors. His children are no more important than yours or anyone else’s.

You need to STOP putting our elected officials on a pedestal and promoting them to some mythical status. They are just regular men and women that we allow to represent us, under the constraints of the Federal Constitution or our State Constitutions.

This is the convoluted belief you have been indoctrinated with, Our government, Federal or State, is NOT above us.

We The People are above our government. Our Constitution grants us our Rights which, as per the Declaration of Independence, are “endowed by our Creator”, a higher power than man. “That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed”. We The People give our government its power, their job is to use NOT abuse that power for their political largesse.

Barrack Hussein, his children or any other elected official is no more important than you, me, or our children. Our elected officials are required to “look up to us” not us look up to them. We honored each and every public official with our most potent weapon, our vote. It is their responsibility to enforce our “Supreme Law”, our Constitution, to ALL OF OUR benefit and protection, not just theirs.

If Sidwell Friends School uses 11 armed guards to protect the 1,000+ children there why can’t your grade school do the same?

NONE OF THOSE CHILDREN ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY OTHER AMERICAN CITIZENS CHILD!!!!!!

This is what you Liberals/Progressives have to understand before you can understand the importance of preserving our Constitution.

If you don’t understand any of this, you may want to change your name to LostMan instead of LosMan.

Caesar --

You have DeNiro as your hero, we know he never made gun violence look so good...

Hey, not to worry. It's just a movie, isn't it?

Well, isn't it?

Jim Spence -

NONE OF THOSE CHILDREN ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY OTHER AMERICAN CITIZENS CHILD!!!!!!

This is what you Liberals/Progressives have to understand before you can understand the importance of preserving our Constitution.

What a total and complete crock. If you were in the slightest interest in protecting children, you would have been horrified at Newtown and you would be even more horrified at the thought of 300 million guns just lying around the streets of America, waiting to kill children randomly, like those college kids in Kentucky or the teenager accidentally shot by her brother in Milwaukee the other day.

Instead, your solution is to dish more guns.

Hypocrite. You make Caesar look like an amateur.

SeekingSanity..... can you help me understand how a dope-smoking high school kid gets into Occidental? Columbia? And then Harvard?

Those are Barry's words, not mine.... taken right out his OWN book.

“in a white classmate’s sparkling new van"

"in the dorm room of some brother”

“on the beach with a couple of Hawaiian kids”

Maybe it's just the left never actually read his books?

Don't forget gun nut. George Zimmerman murdered a Iced Tea & Skittle packing 17 year old black kid. Later this year George will be found guilty by his peers. Because he was an idiot punk.

You defended this jackass as if you witnessed the murder. Rant away. Watch your Faux News that makes you stupid. Listen to your Rush Limpballs that makes you bat poop crazy. Don't forget. At the end of the day. Romney lost because there are alot more of us then you! Have a nice day :)

Taliban.... you did not answer the question... what about the MILLIONS killed every year? Who speaks for them?

I'd like to see you try it, buffoon.

spare me AM..i would no more ruin a perfectly good Yugo or a 5cent bullet on you. I think i was effective with my POINT. take your hormones old gal, those hot flashes are getting to you

Hey, not to worry. It's just a movie, isn't it?

violence advocates violence right?

It's really quite simple and easily proven as to where the REAL problem lies...

Below are three (3) IDENTICAL sentences. Three (3) words have been changed so you can easily see a pattern evolve. Unfortunately, there will still be some who just do not get it. They are covered in the quote at the bottom...

When a DRUNKARD gets behind the STEERING WHEEL of a CAR and kills someone,
we blame the DRUNKARD.

-- or –

When a TERRORIST gets behind the CONTROLS of an AIRPLANE and kills someone,
we blame the TERRORIST.

So then...

When a LUNATIC/CRIMINAL gets behind the TRIGGER of a GUN and kills someone,
we blame the __________.

A) LUNATIC/CRIMINAL
B) TRIGGER
C) GUN

The CORRECT answer is: A) LUNATIC/CRIMINAL

OMG!!!! 0_o

So why are we going after the guns??? Oh, that's right... CITIZEN control.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The irony is that if you go to the Brady Campaign's website, (pro gun control), they themselves prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that EVERYWHERE there are MORE law RESTRICTING gun ownership, that they are the SAME places with the MOST GUN VIOLENCE. Go figure!!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it, and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not." -- Jeremy Taylor, English prelate (1613 - 1667)

Dont be stupid. It was children who were killed so it makes perfect sense to put the issue out there where it should be by using children as the storyline

Well what about al those people that have been killed in Chicago and other major cities. Well hell they don't have the shock and awe of some dead school chilrd of Obama talk even once about the inner city crime in cities that have gun bans....Not Once well why..Because they don't work and nobody inforces them.

THen you libs will vilify the NRA but I quess you have no idea that they have been lobbing to keep guns out of the hands of the insane but due to HIPPA this can't be done or so says the libs. I bet you also don't know who has taught more past generations about gun safety then anyone else...well that would be the NRA and its not about shooting. Try looking up Eddie Eagle which when I was a kid was shown in schools but now they(the Gov) want to keep our children coddled in living under rocks so when the are presented with a problem in life they have no idea how to handle it. When was the last time a public school has had civics classes, you know It includes the study of civil law and civil code, and the study of government with attention to the role of citizens and how to live with one another. Also would teach them the real role of the government, not the role they play now

Where are the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS that support gun control laws?!? BS Obama! BS! BS!

We already have gun control laws in place...we don't need more; enforce what is already on the books!

[Liberalism is a disease and, just like the flu, it must be eliminated.]

Yeah, good luck with that, Jimmie...

But hey, on a lighter note, there was an ACTUAL study conducted in 2003 that concluded that Conservatism is a mental disorder...so there's that.

Caesar --

I think i was effective with my POINT

LoL I'm sure you always do. It's no doubt how you sleep at night without the thought of all the innocents killed by firearms intruding on your sweet dreams.

violence advocates violence right?

I don't know. You tell me.

Heads, I win, tails, you lose.

Where I come from, we call that there a dilemma.

Just like after 9/11 we are all rushing to do something. Lets stop and debate if it is the right thing to do. What else do these people who do these shootings have in common? Mental health issues. This has been brought up a couple of times by posters. As much as a number of people want to talk about a "gun culture", we also need to talk about the "drug culture". I have personally dealt with a teacher that told me flat out my child should be medicated. My son was in second grade. I told her that he was a very average boy, and there was no way that i was going to have him take Ritalin. Now we find out that some of these drugs that we are giving to our children cause permanent brain damage. Most of these mass shooters have been on some type of drug either while children or to the present day. That is an issue that needs to be addressed. You want to talk about how much money the NRA has, well that pales in comparison to our drug industry.

You also need to think about this. Will anything that our government has talked about make you feel safer? If it is against the law to shoot and kill someone, do you think they are going to wait for a gun purchasing permit?

That Right! When you go deer hunting you need your Assault Rifle to turn Bambi into swiss cheese!

Chris Rock said it best when he said we should charge 5000 dollars a bullet. That way the murderer would have to think twice before he shot someone not worth 10 bucks.

you would be even more horrified at the thought of 300 million guns just lying around the streets of America, waiting to kill children randomly

Anna you really are off your rocker. You are one that should really see a shrink as you are delusional. I have never seen guns just lying around the street, no less 300 million of them. What do they sprout up like grass? Boy it must be really stink living life being so afraid. Yes I care about children but what about the thousands that are killed every year do the parents and doctors fedding them mind altering/non approved drugs. I know that is ok with you as god forbid should you have to take the time to work with your child instead of giving them a pill or popping a patch on them.

Why wont Obama speak about PhRMA and the drug companies about these drugs? Well it is because they pay him, the FDA and all the politicians Billions each year. Can't bite the hand that feeds you right. The number of kids killed by guns is a drop in the bucket compared to the lives ruined by these psychotropic drugs that are prescribed to children.

DingleB at 1.20 your post is right on the money.

"I think it's well past time for an alternative ideology to emerge. It's not about deomcrat vs. republican anymore. The fight is liberty vs. tyranny."

Anna Molly

The Constitution can always be amended, and has been amended 27 times.

Fine. Then amend it.

Otherwise leave my Constitution alone!

Take the Second Amendment through the amendment process if you want to change it. I dare you. Take it through the 2/3’s majority it needs to go through in both Houses of Congress and then take it to the States and get 2/3’s of them to agree.

THIS IS THE LAW!!!!!

You know this will NEVER happen and it shouldn’t. The Federal Constitution is sacrosanct to all our Freedoms and Liberties. It is written in stone unless you change it by the Amendment process. These Rights should never be infringed upon by a massive criminal federal bureaucracy, and you shouldn’t condone it either.

If you look at the 17 Amendments added after the original ten Bill of Rights none of them changed any of the original Rights, they just strengthened them or made other Rights more obvious.

Remember, the Bill of Rights was added because the People didn’t trust the government to not specify each unalienable and inalienable Right. And it’s a good thing they did make the Rights be added in written form, isn’t it.

Oh, like that's never happened.

And yet you Libbies still believe that government wants to help you.

Your delusions consume any common sense you have left after your parents, peers and teachers indoctrinated you into the disease known as Liberalism/Progressivism. Keep allowing them to intrude on your Constitutional Rights until you have none left, then ask them for them back.

Good luck with that wet-dream Spanky.

While he may have had fewer news conferences Obama's were more truthful and more intellegent than those of Bush. GWBush was the biggest liar ever to hold the office of President of the United States.

The media loves drama and intrigue. It gives them more viewers or readers so with no drama Obama at the helm of the ship of state they would simply be bored. Dubya's constant flubbs of the English language, alone made him interesting even if much of it was pure lies.

With rights come responsibility, something the irresponsible right wing nut jobs obviously don't believe in. Responsibility, get it?

You Libs are being used and fooled again. "Can't let a Good Crisis Go to Waste" That is this admins words. The Obamanation does not give 2 shlts about your children. If he did he would address a much larger problem, the thing is many of you are also part of the problem.

Millions of
American youngsters take psychotropic drugs for a variety of mental disorders.
There is no question that many children have greatly benefited. However, these
drugs were developed for adults, not children. Most have not been tested for
pediatric use, and have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration
(FDA) for treatment of children. Some 75 to 80 percent of psychotropic drugs are
used "off label"– prescribed for a different use than approved by the FDA.

Clearly, more
research is needed to study the effects of psychotropic medications on children.
The FDA even offers financial incentives: It will extend the patents of drugs by six months if the
pharmaceutical company conducts pediatric studies with them

SSRIs include Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft,
Celexa and Luvox. They help regulate levels of serotonin, a chemical in the body
that is believed to affect mood

In a recent
study, 72 percent of family physicians and pediatricians said they had
prescribed SSRIs to patients under the age of 18. Yet only 8 percent said they
had received adequate training in managing childhood depression, and only 16
percent said they were "comfortable" treating depressed children. Many health
professionals believe the more powerful psychotropic drugs are best left in the
hands of specialists.

While much media attention has
focused on mental disorders in adolescents, increasing numbers of very young
children are also taking antidepressants and stimulants. According to a recent
study of more than 200,000 preschoolers published in JAMA, the number of 2 to 4
year olds taking psychotropic drugs, including Ritalin and Prozac, rose 50
percent between 1991 and 1995.

Many of these drugs given to kids are the beginning of the problems we are seeing these days, we know have a generation of folks that can't cope with reality. Any and all trials are left in the hands of the company making the drugs with no oversight

Hello folks, apparently the POTUS has passed the buck to congress regarding banning "assault rifles" and large magazines, that aint going to happen.

Where is Feisty, Haggis, Silverton, RI Mom, Pigotry, you guys put up a good fight but the 2nd Amendment won today.

I would like to see the government go after the psychotropic drugs and Big Pharma but they are too powerful a lobby and our government legislates for those that put the most money in their pocket. We have the best government money can buy.

American Taliban = GOP/TeaParty.

Jim Spence

Who is going to pay for police in every school? WE ARE BROKE Remember, We cannot afford the BILLIONS and BILIIONS of dollars, unless of course the NRA is going to foot the Bill?

Hmmmm, OK, I’ll play.

We are broke you say?

Lemme ax you a question, why do you think our nation is broke? Could it be because of the following?

The federal government made at least $110 billion in improper payments in 2012.

Washington spends $25 billion annually maintaining unused or vacant federal properties.

The Congressional Budget Office published a “Budget Options” series identifying more than $140 billion in potential spending cuts.

Examples from multiple Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports of wasteful duplication include 342 economic development programs; 130 programs serving the disabled; 130 programs serving at-risk youth; 90 early childhood development programs; 75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities; and 72 safe water programs. This report identifies more than $100 billion to $200 billion in annual government spending on 1,500 different programs that are wasteful, duplicative, or inefficient.

A recent study by the Institute of Medicine shows health care fraud is estimated to cost taxpayers more than $750 billion annually.

Government auditors spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them–costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually–fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve. (emphasis mine)

Yep, makes sense to me, let's just keep pouring more of our hard earned tax dollars into the bottomless pit called government. I'm sure paying $25 BILLION a year to maintain empty buildings is much smarter than using that to protect our children. Hell, for that much you can hire 500,000 more police, veterans or security people at $50,000 a year. I'll bet we can protect a lot more of our children with that money rather than caulking more old government buildings, dontche think?

Looks to me like your sacrosanct gubment you Libbies worship so vehemently is the cause of much of our being broke doesn’t it? Don’t even get me started on the biggest criminal intrusions into our lives, our unconstitutional entitlements.

Maybe if you limp-wristed Libbies didn’t sniff Barrack Husseins chair so strongly every time he stands up you can clear your heads of all that delusion running around in it.

Try to keep up Spanky.

Jim Spence --

Remember, the Bill of Rights was added because the People didn’t trust the government to not specify each unalienable and inalienable Right. And it’s a good thing they did make the Rights be added in written form, isn’t it.

Oh, like that's never happened.

And yet you Libbies still believe that government wants to help you.

You totally missed the point, which once again goes to show why you are not a Constitutional Law professor.

Which is that the government can and does regulate your "Bill of Rights" rights early and often. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater being the easiest example. Similarly, the right to be free from search and seizure is subject to regulation, as the USA Patriot Act illustrates.

You're FOR that, aren't you, genius?

So, to make it as simple as possible for you, what that all means is that your claim that the Second Amendment is somehow sacrosanct and not subject to ANY regulation is BOGUS, just like the rest of what you spew, founded on false premises and a misapprehension of what the law really is.

Good luck with that wet-dream Spanky.

Naw, that was some other phony-baloney lawyer. I'm the real deal.

Just ask MY Constitutional Law professor.

Mentioning the problems I listed above with the FDA here is another one that the FDA was behind and spent billions since 1985 wrongly trying to convict a cancer doctor. I must also mention that his cancer treatments work about 50 to 75% better then chemo and radiation, his treatment also has no side effects like chemo and radiation. Antineoplastons(his design and treatment) has cured cancers that the other treatments have NEVER CURED. Yet beause he is not part of PhRMA/a large pill factory the FDA went after him as there are trillions to be lost if he finds the cure. What better way to slow him down then keep him in court year after year with the Grand Juries dismissing all but one of the cases. This is what you folks should be pissed about

Dec. 2, 2012

Dead silence is all that remains, over a week since the Texas Medical Board was forced to drop their case against Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski. Other than a couple random small-town newspapers, a questionable blog and Saturday's opinion piece in a tiny Canadian regular, no one in the media has been willing to touch the news that, yet again, all charges were dismissed against a certain doctor that has literally and successfully cured cancer on many occasions.

The Texas Medical Board and the Western medical establishment had been targeting Dr. Burzynski for years and the media was fully willing to document the case against him and chastise his work, prior to the case being dismissed and despite his incredible success record. Strangely, as if the event never occurred, there's been nothing by the media since.

what definition of assault weapon is going to be used; the U.N. assault weapon ban, signed by Hillary and endorsed by the administration is, ANY SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM, THAT IS SELF LOADING BETWEEN FIRING, that will cover any semi-automatic handgun, rifle, and shotgun in any ones possession except law enforcement and military( about 85% of all guns sold and manufactured.

It's no doubt how you sleep at night without the thought of all the innocents killed by firearms intruding on your sweet dreams.

stop your hyperbole AM, youre 'strawman' argument falls on deaf ears.

Naw, that was some other phony-baloney lawyer. I'm the real deal.

thats even more scary Esquire.

Heads, I win, tails, you lose.

I cry foul, you're using double sided Obama head trillion dollar coin valued at zero

Where I come from, we call that there a dilemma.

where you come from is the twilight zone. no vamps either

Anna Molly

Which is that the government can and does regulate your "Bill of Rights" rights early and often. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater being the easiest example. Similarly, the right to be free from search and seizure is subject to regulation, as the USA Patriot Act illustrates.

You're FOR that, aren't you, genius?

No, I’m not FOR that Spanky!

If you can’t tell by my posts I’m against ANY government intrusions into our Constitution, other than securing our Rights. Your obtundation with government is complete.

No, you shouldn’t yell fire in a crowded theater, it should be mandated by State laws if they want it. The Patriot Act, as well as NDAA, should never have happened. This overloading of Executive power should even frighten you Libbies. Entitlements and social programs should be governed by the States also, NOT the Federal government.

The Constitution was created to control our government, not for it to control us. As a Federal Constitutional Republic the resultant dual sovereignty should be promoted rather than abrogated.

We are NOT a Democracy, we are a Republic, there’s a big difference in these forms of government.

@ Caesar LoL - Best post EVER. I have inspired you to greatness.

But why am I not surprised if that falls on deaf ears, too.

By the way, where do I go to get one of those coins?

@ Jim Spence -- You're NOT for the Patriot Act?

Heavens to Murgatroyd, don't let your right-wing comrades hear that. They might think you're a terrorist, or a drug-runner, or worse yet, a card-carrying ... liberal.

Or probably just a garden variety libertarian, except when it comes to other people's rights, which you don't mind abridging when they happen to butt up against your perceptions of your own entitlements.

But anyway, by admitting that states should have the right to regulate "fire in a crowded theater" -- which is a clear First Amendment issue -- you have just conceded my point. Reasonable regulation of the fundamental Bill of Rights is not only allowable, but desirable.

Later.

So NOW ALL the politicos, Including Our Prez O, Are GRANDSTANDING and have joined forces to ban guns. However, PB did NOT Hear ONE gesture of commitment to Establishing An American Universal HealthCARE System WITH Psychiatric OutReach TEAMS who have "Examine and Retain" Authority. Those Teams would have SEEN and Examined darling little adamn lanza and his MISGUIDED momma where little adamn was taking powerful Psychiatric "medication" whose Contraindications CLEARLY STATE "May cause Suicidal And/Or HOMICIDAL BEHAVIOR"; Meaning the "patient" MAY JUST SLIP Into CRIMINAL INSANITY. And AND! AND!!! after seeing Momma lanza putting the weapons at her little darling's disposal "To Teach Him Responsibility", which cost her Her Dumb Delusional life, The Psychiatric Team would have Locked UP BOTH of them. But Noooooo....Do Not go after Big Pharmaceutical corporations AND ALSO provide An American Universal HEALTHCARE System, with FULLY equipped Psychiatric OutReach Teams Like Our SANE Allys have, GO AFTER The Peaceful law abiding citizen! It's an "Easier Hunt" with NO political ramifications. Face IT: America has More Very Dangerous NutJobs, Including serial killers of Our Women, running around, on the loose, than fleas on a Houndog's Back. The REAL VILLAINS In this WHOLE American GUN NIGHTMARE???? They are Big Pharmaceutical Corporations who, 40 years ago, saw the INCREDIBLY PROFITABLE Opportunity of peddling worthless "psychiatric" pills to Federal and State governments for "Patient OutCare Management", BUT FIRST, with the help of the OTHER EVIL POLITICO VILLAIN, CLOSE DOWN ALL THE STATE AND FEDERAL MENTAL HOSPITALS. These Evil Sewage Politicians have to go, Be Flushed Out and of off State and Federal Crapital Hills. Ironically what's keeping them IN POWER? "law enforcemnet" GUNS...............

Phantom Beast -- Unfortunately, even if Lanza had gotten the treatment he needed and was prohibited from having firearms, it wouldn't be the first time that someone who was legally barred from having firearms had them anyway, and I know firsthand it wouldn't be the first time that the firearms were given -- or made available -- to that person by a careless or complicit family member.

We have to do better than that.

The fight over debt ceiling is looming; the GOP should just agree to the President’s demand, and should not fight this fight

Wow, Pigotry! If I didn't know any better, I would swear Job1 wrote that post. The only thing missing is the addition of something like, "they better do it because the President said so and he's the boss of them!" Or "they better do it or the President will beat them up! Because he is the biggest, strongest, and bestest president ever!"

It is all smoke and mirrors and political posturing. Our liabilities would be paid first (social security, debt service, military, etc.) Only non-essential spending would be in any danger. So everyone should stop threatening the old folks checks.

Saxon: Spot on!

That is one thing the grabbers actually may be counting on. To those out there that believe what the UN is saying when it says that it will not affect US sovereignty, you'ld better think again!

Treaty Dictates from a Committee of Vultures

Why do I keep seeing the third peril of George Washington's Vision starting to play out fairly soon???

Ten years ago, a Republican sponsored (Todd Tiahrt R-Kansas), NRA written bit of legislation was inserted into a funding bill. It gutted the ATF's ability to track firearms and enforce existing gun laws. It required that background check information be destroyed within 24 hours, restricts inspection of gun shops to once per year, cuts funding so that actual inspections only occur once every 17 years on average. It also removed any requirement for gun shops to take inventory or keep track of their products. Republicans have blocked Senate confirmation of a director of the ATF for the last 6 years. (this requirement was inserted into the Patriot act by John Sensenbrenner R-Wisconson. He won the NRA's defender of freedom award that year.) The total number of ATF agents has remained at 2500 for the last 35 years and they have 100,000 gun sellers to monitor, not to mention the alcohol and tobacco.

57% of guns used in crimes were traced back to only 1% of gun dealers. This information was obtained 20 years ago, but since then the ATF has been barred from collecting and using such a database. The NRA has little credibility after these attacks upon very reasonable gun legislation.

Obama
goes big on gun control

The only thing this lunatic goes big on is - Vacations.

So you think those gang bangers will follow the law, too funny, it must be hell going through life with your head stuck up your backside.

...did you read?

This post part of an opinion piece by a conservative - Peggy Noonan, Reagan's speechwriter. I am not saying I agree with her or disagree with her. It's just an evidence of soul-searching among some republicans.

stopfreeloaders

So you think those gang bangers will follow the law, too funny,......

My guess is the NRA thinks gangs are just another synonym for "militia".

Salud

No stopfreeloaders the gang bangers won't follow the law, but at least we can make it harder for them to break the law.

Morons actually DO BELIEVE that law-breakers will pay attention to a NEW LAW ......

jim,

Some laws may actually have an impact. There is no requirement to report a stolen gun. Law abiding citizens do follow the law. Reporting a stolen gun may help.

Adding further responsibilities to gun owners may make them think twice about making that unregulated private sale to somebody who's acting just a little off.

And deepening the punishments handed out for crimes committed is never a bad thing.

Doing nothing isn't working. There are plenty of things that can be done which will not punish current and future gun owners. For starters, lift the ban on conducting gun violence research by the federal government. You want to know why gun laws are stupid? There's a big part of it right there.

Piggy, your comments above APPEAR to be your own because you forgot to quote them.

Regarding your comment to SFL. I don't see where he directed his comment to YOU specifically. Sure looks like a generic comment regarding the LAUGHABLE insinuation that the intended gun "control" will stop criminals and governments from using guns illegally. Get over your self, PLEASE!

Thomas, your comment is just plain STUPID. Wish I could post a picture illustrating the current status of your head.

Mo, laws do NOT stop criminals, civilian OR government. Criminals will ALWAYS find a way around the law and the government just hides behind executive privilege.

These proposals on the table are there for only one reason..... make more Americans that have done nothing wrong into criminals. PERIOD.

Hey Piggy, why is it that you and that other fat pig, Feisty, are always so negative, Have either one of you low lives ever held a job?

well gun control in nyc is pretty successful it is the safest large city in america.....I actually saw more violence in mississippi

So you think those gang bangers will follow the law,

Faced some gang bangers recently, have ya. Well, sorry to spoil your party, but if you face gang bangers, and they want you dead, you will be dead. The only difference you'll make by carrying a gun is that after they kill you, they will have one more gun.

Hey, Idaho-Steven (#2.7)

Piggy, your comments above APPEAR to be your own

No, it's peggy noonan's. It's piggy quoting peggy.

FYI -

http://online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html

Pigotry

..did you read?

You must be one of those fat lazy PIGS that works ( puts their time in )for the government, and is stealing my tax dollars every two weeks. Rather than do your job (IF you know how )your posting on here. You can't work for NBC you never have your facts right, you just ramble on, will maybe you do some of the crap you write is just like reading something NBC would put out. The subject is gun control you have posted anything but only thing you have not posted on here is whats for dinner to night. Go away way you have nothing to offer but lies and BS.

Joe - Feisty and Piggy are paid political trolls.

Let the rioting begin. Its going to be sooner or later i say crash government crash. Everyone buy all the ammo you can. Come on baby crash the train. We all know your a fraud just go ahead crash the government. You guys know food stamps for a family of 5 is allmost $1000 a month. No wonder were completely broke. All you freeloaders sure have big opinions for a Government that pays you to shut up.

Pigotry

Hey, Idaho-Steven (#2.7)

Piggy, your comments above APPEAR to be your own

No, it's peggy noonan's. It's piggy quoting peggy.

Piggy, they have a slick new tool here called the QUOTE too. You comment above (2.1) does NOT have the quote tool applied to the text. As such, it would be EASY for someone to come to the conclusion (which requires thought and deduction) that they are your words. Doesn't that make sense to you?

Morons actually DO BELIEVE that law-breakers will pay attention to a NEW LAW ......

Well, as Bill Clinton said it is simple arithmetic.

If we make the production and sale of these types of weapons and magazines illegal, then we are decreasing the amount added to the exisiting supply.

If we regulate private sales without background checks we can reduce the weapons/magazines transferred from current owners to criminals.

If we confiscate and destroy weapons/magazines seized during law enforcement actions, we can reduce the exisiting supply.

That adds up to reducing the overall availability of these types of weapons/magazines, which makes it harder for criminals/crazies to obtain them, which makes it less likely they will be used in criminal activities.

Sounds like a plan to me.

New York's new gun law looks pretty good to me. All of my guns are legal according to this law, and one of them is a Gen. George S. Patton replica.

This law should be made the national standard.

The problem is when the gun-lobby gives an inch the ant-gun lobby takes a mile. Senator Feinstein's hypocrisy is an example. She is a CCW holder and carries a gun but in a taped interview she stated she wanted a complete ban with confiscation. I don't trust her or Obama or the GOP for that matter.

Yes, another brilliant Obama plan. Lets spend millions doing a study with money we don't have to find a way to lie about where the real problems with guns are. Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the Country as does DC but guess where the most gun murders happen! So how is disarming law abiding citizens working for you there? Blah Blah Blah assault weapons but he never mentions that there was NO assualt weapon involved in Newton but there was definitely a mental illness problem. That he gives a footnote. Of couse the pigs of the world will follow him into the mud anyway.

The real problem is this need to do something attitude. The fact is the world is a harsh place and bad things happen, no matter how many laws you pass. Laws might make this country safer but as the past assault rifle ban has shown us it can also make things worse. Maybe this might just be as good as its gonna be.

You people that think that criminalizing law abiding citizens will somehow reduce that gun load for criminals are delusional. The last weapons ban proved that hand over fist. The ONLY people harmed with those that ordinarily would follow the law.

READ YOUR HISTORY FOLKS!!!!!! Removing guns from society only makes violence worse.

TNSEVOL

The supply is increasing in Chicago. The high price of guns brings in more money for gun-runners. What happens to the supply when price is high? It will increase as more people decide they want in on the action. You will disarm people who are not the problem. 80% of gun-crime is gang related. You may drop domestic crime a bit but not the majority of gun-crime. Obama won't seal the southern border. The guns will continue to flow in because the profit margins are higher.

you would be even more horrified at the thought of 300 million guns just lying around the streets of America, waiting to kill children randomly

Anna you really are off your rocker. You are one that should really see a shrink as you are delusional. I have never seen guns just lying around the street, no less 300 million of them. What do they sprout up like grass? Boy it must be really stink living life being so afraid. Yes I care about children but what about the thousands that are killed every year do the parents and doctors fedding them mind altering/non approved drugs. I know that is ok with you as god forbid should you have to take the time to work with your child instead of giving them a pill or popping a patch on them.

Why wont Obama speak about PhRMA and the drug companies about these drugs? Well it is because they pay him, the FDA and all the politicians Billions each year. Can't bite the hand that feeds you right. The number of kids killed by guns is a drop in the bucket compared to the lives ruined by these psychotropic drugs that are prescribed to children.

[You guys know food stamps for a family of 5 is allmost $1000 a month.]

Sorry Luke, but you're off the mark. The max is less than $800, and that depends on income, if you have any.

I have to ask: Can YOU feed your family on less that $200 per person, per month? But that's the whole "walk a mile" dealie, for another time.

But you go right ahead and keep beating that drum, after all, denying women and children food is the "in" thing nowadays, isn't it?

Feed a family for less that $200 per person. I DO IT EVERY MONTH. Why, because taxes take so much of my money I can't afford to spend more. It really is true that some people on assistance eat better than those that provide the money for them to do it.

Mickey, you are no better than Obummer surrounding himself with children trying to get the tears.

Where do the Gangbangers get the guns from? Oh thats right they steal them from law abiding citizens, so if they cant steal anymore assault weapons because they are not legal to buy anymore it is a matter of time before assault weapons are gone from our streets

No most come through the black market and straw buyers. You know the same straw buyers that Obama and Holder just let go about their business. More guns were put on the streets by these two lying do nothings (Obama and Holder) than were stolen. We also have guns being shipped in the US illegally just like in Mexico you know the Black Market.

You folks are a sad bunch, you sit back and claim you care but say nothing of the thousands of other children that die everyyear. Oh thats right only the 20 (god bless their souls) do matter but they are not the only ones. Take care of the mentally ill and put restrictions on the drugs companies, that would save 100 fold more kids

[Feed a family for less that $200 per person. I DO IT EVERY MONTH. Why, because taxes take so much of my money I can't afford to spend more]

Well, maybe if you cancelled this cushy highspeed internets connection, you wouldn;t go hungry...

...sound familiar?

You missed the point, Steven.

Even on this point the NRA's position is fatally flawed. Are they suggesting that all of us should be provided with highly trained, personal bodyguards? No, they're proposing that an ever-increasing group of random citizens walk around armed, with whatever level of training they personally see as appropriate. They'll vary in training, in temperament, and in mental stability.

Even a blind man can see that isn't the same thing.

"Have you no sense of decency?"

Apparently not.

I personally think it needs to be understood that the NRA is fighting for its life. Its sole purpose is to sell guns and they do that with fear. Maybe they should be declared a terrorist organization and disbanded for all the evil that they expose.

UNDER SECRET SERVICE PROTECTION!!!

Thank you for bringing up the Secret Service.

Maybe one of these mental midgets on the right can remind us how many agents were surrounding Saint Reagan when John Hinckly capped his ass?

Wonder if they were unarmed at the time... *snark off*

feisty redhead- your post makes no sense whatsoever. What are you talking about?

Johntho, you claim the NRA is fear mongering but you want them labeled as a terrorist group? How ironic.

No more ironic, I guess, than you getting voted up so much after dismissing a guy who brings real numbers to the table and all you can do is scream racism as a rebuttal.

Bringing the Presidents family into the argument is bad, how about the President bringing in kids to use as props, Liberals know no bounds when it come to being classless.

ProFreedom-5130956

Not to speak for Feisty, but I believe she is pointing out that JFK, RFK, Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan were all surrounded by Secret Service at the time they were shot, so the idea that simply providing schools with armed guards does not address the underlying issues in gun violence.

so the idea that simply providing schools with armed guards does not address the underlying issues in gun violence

Thanks Ames!

Precisely my point.

I thought it would be obvious to anyone with an IQ over 40 what I was implying... lol

Feisty, did you forget that people like Pro don't have a 40 IQ? Likely thing is they were probably on the short bus when they were school age.

East Coast, blah, blah, blah. I really think you shoud take it down the hall with jim and pro and the rest of the RWNJ's. Because you are making no smacks here.

Call me Pollyanna but I wonder why the NRA feels such a need to pander to its base? Shouldn't they be able to count on the support of the base without such despicable ads? Might they feel more threatened than their bluster would indicate?

Thanks, Da Noid, for pointing out that special people get special treatment. If you're not part of the elite, you do not have the right for protection. That is what you're saying, in black and white. So, if there is no need for protection, for schools, why do certain schools, that are attended by certain people's children, have armed protection ? Because... that's what works. That's a reason why their children attend there. Also, why have an argument when you can have a discussion ?

It must suck to be an ignorant liberal all your life!!

Special people get special treatment?

There are schools all over the nation that have armed resource staff in the schools. Get over yourself, isn't it the far right wing nuts that keep telling us that we shouldn't be jealous of the Romney's of this world? Or does that only apply when you can use this tragedy to attack this President's children?

Oh the hypocritical l blast from the left!! You guys attack everyone and anyone who holds different values and ideas than you,Pailin was and is still a victim of your attacks on her and her children,accusations of Extramarital affairs and who the "real mother" to her son with Down syndrome is it her daughters? Blah blah blah,Guess the Prez and his kids deserve the same you give every "crazy gun toting Republicans and TP" it's really BS when you guys cry about someone using your tactict's.

Anyone else think the theme from the Twilight Zone should be playing when Ster2 posts?

Isn't the far left dip wads that think that THEIR rights are more important than ANYONE ELSE'S?

Watch the patterns, people. THAT is important. The patterns of history. Guns go away, freedoms go away, ALL of them eventually. They go away either due to an increase in violence, or an increase in tyranny.

You may feel so good spouting off about this issue due to your first rights. I guarantee that if you do not support other people's rights that one will go away too. Just because this is not important to you, someday your painted pony will be tossed into the grinder. Then, without any way to defend it, what will you do?

Anyone else think the theme from the Twilight Zone should be playing when Ster2 posts?

YUP!

Right along with plenty of others... lol

President Obama odered the killing of OBL and then watched. Mission Accomplished. Then when he was talking about the Newtown massacre he kept wiping his eyes. Ok you gun nuts, you now know he is coming for you.

All of my guns already meet this New York law. It should be made the national standard.

Scary that these people have access to guns. They simply don't seem to access rational thought.

I've been an NRA member for almost 30 years. Never new they sold guns. Have however been to some of their gun safety courses. Have seen them lobby to help protect animals from being over hunted.

It's funny how people that know nothing about something think they know everything.

I agree the presidents children need to be protected. But what about mine? Granted right now they do not need armed security to protect them. What if suddenly I become a multi-billionaire and they need protection. I don't have the right to hire trained security for my family?

Bottom line; I am an American citizen and under The Constitution of The United States of America I have the same rights as any other American citizen, even if that citizen is the president.

Newday,
Anyone else think the theme from the Twilight Zone should be playing when Ster2 posts?

Nobody would expect you or your ilk to understand rational thoughts,much less post them.
Aparently your head was in the sand when Pailin and her family were attacked on a National level,how quickly you forget your double standards.

It amazes me how some will post and display their ignorance for all to see. Read the words of the 2nd amendment. Amendment also designed to protect citizens from an out of control federal gov't and a dictator president like me have now. Normal folks ?? Who might they be ?? The 58+ million who voted against Oblamer and his radical, socialist agenda ???