Uh, isn't EVERY gun made for that purpose?

Maybe then, Obama should not have equiped people along the border WITH assault rifels in an attempt for them to be brought back to ring leaders.... in which the operation Fast & Furious failed horribly only to allow the guns that were used to kill tons of people be traced back showing they were given by Obamas administration.

We the people should be able to equally defend ourselves against the people Obamas administration equipped with assault rifels.

I agree they should only be for Military purposes, however in this case....no.

Obama is a fraud stating he will be honest with the American people and that these assault rifels only belong on the hands of military perssonell, when he equipped these people with these assault rifels..

Total BS. if i had an assault rifel, i wouldnt give it to them.

feisty, so what is the purpuse of any gun? to base restrictions based on what you said, would mean ALL guns should be banned. Let me ask you....if guns have been around since this country started, and people have owned guns since then, why now is it the guns fault if someone uses one to kill someone else?

Well, there is the 2nd Amendment. And the fact that eliminating large capacity magazines won't help - soldiers have been taping small capacity magazines together for decades. Or that 99.7 % of all gun-related crime is committed by someone that didn't have the right to possess that gun in the first place. Or that crime rises significantly every time gun control laws are passed (17% fster than the national average for 5 years). Or that the crimes they committed were already illegal (obviously), but that didn't stop them.

But don't let the truth interfere with your opinion.

Funny reading how people are willing to risk police officers lives for their own political agenda. Most law enforcement dont want to see an assault weapons ban because they themselves will keep what they have and so will their family's. Its usually only the cheif of police that touts such irresponsible logic because the cheif already don't mind risking his officers safety for stupid reasons.

No Feisty, those weapons designed during Vietnam were actually built to "WOUND" the enemy. You have displayed your ignorance. It is a very small caliber not much larger than a .22 used for shooting praire dogs. The Newton Massace could have occured with ANY GUN!!!!!

I own one because I like shooting targets; but it would not be my first choice for a gun to kill someone with. It is however a good self-defence weapon. Do you live on a ranch where there are Mexican Gang Bangers nearby???? Whay right do you say a farmer can't protect his land and family?? Screw you!!

"Need" has nothing to do with it. It's what I want that matters. If I want a machinegun because I happen to like them, and can afford one or more, what business is it of yours? If you don't happen to like firearms, don't buy any, but stay out of my business.

Those whom wish to outlaw guns have no education or understanding of firearms. That which we do not understand, we fear. Those that abuse the firearm capabilities, have no morality and/or mental control. The right to keep and bear arms, through the Second amendment, is there to protect the entire Bill of Rights. Defend it to the fullest extent!

Disagree - I believe there are many situations that multiround weapons could be necessary to protect your family. United States is not immune to social unrest. How would you protect yourself if mobs would attack your area ? Many different scenerious could lead to this. Just because you dont have something, dont think you can tell others that they cant have it either - this seems to be a reoccuring theme.

Fiesty - Why are you not on the Chicago gun murder board? This a disease caused by the policies of Democrats! Please Democrats stand up and take full credit! Suburb after suburb destroyed by these policies. Look at the Chicagoland area, were does the disease stop? It stops in Republican towns and cities. What words of wisdom did Obama utter about his hometown Chicago's gun problem? Nothing to pander to so just move on. PATHETIC!

For the purposes of discussion, an assault rifle is a semi automatic weapon. We can all agree that automatic weapons are already outlawed.

Yes, you can tape several small magazines together, but you have to spend the time to get the old magazine out and the new one in, and in that time someone can act.

If you are looking at people with mental health issues using guns, they might take longer to change a magazine rather than have one they don't have to change to keep on shooting.

They have feet.

Well, by your reasoning, people kill people, so we should eliminate people. Problem solved, right Deven?

so the simple fact that this has been done before and proven that it didn't work means nothing to you. You will support your messiah no matter what and weather or not it makes sense means nothing to you....figures..

Ceasar troll, go do the anatomical impossibility of fornicating yourself.

yeah im a troll based on what again Jethro?

In my opinion....

yep, and like an @!$%#, it stinks. go back to your coffee house limpy

your solution toolbag is unexceptable. While you blame the gun, you refuse to blame the crazed person behind it. Remove the gun then what? you gonna ban fertilzer? Knives? Bats?

Hey Liberals I know you cant answer this but please cite a source that has shown a gun to ever on its own accord walk up and blow someone away.

@Johntho Caesar makes a point. The definition of assualt rifle is a weapon that fires more than one round per pull of the trigger.

Also it is my right to own these weapons so I can defend myself from any threat possible whether it be a home invader or my own government. And for those of you who say that I don't need more than 10 rounds at a time you identify yourself as a person who has never been in a high stress situation while handling a firearm. It is not like the movies where you shoot a guy once and they fall over dead. If you get a good shot it can take a person 30 minutes to bleed out the heart and head are very, very small targets at 20 feet and it takes a large amount of skill and training to hit them under pressure. If you want to know how many rounds I think will need in a gun fight I will tell you as soon as all threats are neutralized.

I agree, go ahead and ban anything the military defines as an assault rifle - a rifle capable of selective fire (full-auto/burst fire/single shot).

Leave my AR (which is acronym for the brand Armalite who originally designed the rifle not the misrepresented short of "assault rifle") and AK variants alone.

323 people a year are killed by rifles (this includes the subset of what people miscall these semi-auto rifles as "assault rifles with high capacity magazines"). That statistic is directly from the FBI for all murders done with a rifle in 2011.

Guess how many people were killed by bare hands in 2011? That's right more than double those killed by rifles (at a total of 728 killed by an attacker just using their hands/fists/feet/etc). Knifes killed 5x that of all rifles (at 1694 people murdered) and Hammers/clubs got another 5x that of all rifles (at 1659 people murdered). All from FBI violent crime statistics.

If the real agenda for this government is to save lives, let's start with banning knifes, hammers, clubs and fists before banning any form of rifle. If those things were banned and in no way able to be bought and used illegally, we'd save 4,081 people a year with that ban, vs maybe 323 saved by banning all rifles.

I'd venture that this is just to appease those ignorant and fearful of what they do not understand (firearms) for the political gain of those involved in this debate. We already seen 10 years of failure from the last "high capacity assault weapon" ban, why waste the time and resources to do it again with likely the same results?

A better solution? Close the loop holes for straw/private/gun show sales by having all transactions go through a licensed FFL gun shop/store, actually enforce the existing laws and most importantly put into place better screening and treatment of mentally ill people. Fixing the mentally ill problem would dramatically reduce all violence (including guns, knifes, hammers and fists).

Wow, looks like all the Lib hacks are praying at the Obama alter. They scream about limited guns rights and in the next article scream about raising the debt ceiling? The Country is bankrupt, once the dollar collaspes I will agree with what you are saying, you people shouldn't have any guns, hahahaaaaa.

Eric the time you are talking about is less than two seconds, and if the mentally handicapped shooter you are referring to has trouble with that he probably also has trouble obtaining and shooting the firearm as well. WTH. Changing magazines is a very simple operation...

Feisty, banning assault weapons only makes it harder for us to be as well armed as the criminals who have waged war on society. It won't get a significant number of them off the street because the criminals won't turn them in. So why make the criminals more comfortable knowing they are better armed than the public that they are bent on victimizing? Rest assured, the criminals want assault weapons banned just like you do, so we can't shoot back as fast or as often as they can. Be a victim if you want but don't take away my right to be well armed enough to protect my family. And no, the police can't be there fast enough to do it either. Just ask anybody that was in Aurora or Newtown when the gunmen showed up.

There is absolutely NO reason for John Q. Public to own assault weapons... PERIOD!

Ignorance and plain stupidity reign supreme among the gun grabbing liberal milquetoasts!

You're right Fiesty...and there's not one single John Q. Public out there that owns an "assault" rifle other than licensed gun dealers, FFL's and people that have gone through the strictest background checks.

"Assault weapon" is a made up word by liberal gun grabbers to scare the general public into thinking that gun owners have military issued automatic weapons. This is not the case, but you ignorant gun grabbers still try to spread the fear.

There's also not one single person out there with high capacity "clips" as you ignorant gun grabbers like to term them. They are called magazines and the 10, 20, and 30 round MAGAZINES that come with the purchase of a semi-automatic rifle are STANDARD capacity magazines.

obama is mistaken if he thinks he will get a ban on semi-automatic rifles through Congress. The only way that would happen is if he tries to go around the Constitution and if that happens, the next thing you hear will be the SHTF and the crack of the straw that broke the camels back.

Feisty "ANY GUN!!!!" the kids were sitting ducks....he could have walked in there with a .22 caliber pistol with 10 round mags and shot them in the head just the same. He could have used a revolver...

The real issue is there was NO-BODY to STOP Him!!!

Please don't be as stupid as our government leaders

A shotgun loaded with buckshot is the ideal close-quarter weapon......

In just 5 shots, upwards of 130 round balls are heading down-range.......

All of which are larger than an AR-15's .223 caliber round......

haggisbingo.......

You Sir are full of crap.....the real statistics on the Australian gun ban.

Lew Rockwell......

Australia boldly banned all semi-automatic firearms, including many rifles and shotguns, in 1997. Indeed, it was a gun grabber’s dream; approximately 640,000 firearms were confiscated and destroyed. This misguided Australian policy resulted in an armed robbery increase of 69%, an assault involving firearms increase of 28%, a gun related murder increase of 19%, and a home invasion increase of 21%. Violent criminals love gun bans.

haggisboro - How many assault rifles were used in Chicago's 5,000 gun murders over the last 12 years? How many legal guns were used? What laws specifically would take the illegal guns out of the criminals hands? Legal Guns are not the problem, policies of dependency and hopelessness caused by generation of Democratic rule. This is what's killing these people, DEMOCRATS. And the head hand out guy killing incentive, OBAMA, wont even talk about Chicago! WHY!

Dearest Fiesty; There is,already on the books, a FEDERAL law that states that if a felon is caught with a firearm they are subject to a MANDATORY five year prision sentence.Why isn't this law being utilized?

The Five Rules of Propaganda:

The rule of simplification: reducing all data to a simple confrontation between ‘Good and Bad’, ‘Friend and Foe’.

The rule of disfiguration: discrediting the opposition by crude smears and parodies.

The rule of transfusion: manipulating the consensus values of the target audience for one’s own ends.

The rule of unanimity: presenting one’s viewpoint as if it were the unanimous opinion of all right-thinking people: draining the doubting individual into agreement by the appeal of star-performers, by social pressure, and by ‘psychological contagion’.

The rule of orchestration: endlessly repeating the same messages in different variations and combinations.

Example: NRA = Sociopathic Terrorists. Guns = Evil.

"I sympathize with people who want to ban guns, but I can't agree with them. We have to be careful in our zeal to abolish guns that we don't wind up with counter-productive legislation that will leave armed only the people most likely to do harm with them."

To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow... For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding.

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with "hunting" it has to do with the right to defend yourself. When it was written it was written to address the British Colonial Monarchy which had a single King ruling over his subjects. It's intent was to acknowledge that individuals not just kings had an already existing right to defend themselves.

The founders wrote the 2nd amendment to secure that right, and to ensure that no king could ever “rule” over subjects in America. That’s made clear by this quote:

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.

---Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

There is absolutely NO reason for John Q. Public to own assault weapons... PERIOD!

That is not an accurate statement. In times of war or civil unrest, the government has the ability to take over all gun and ammo mfg's. At that time, only military issued ammo would be available. Making the .223, 45 auto, and 9mm round the most available.

You can argue the validity of this fact all you want, but it remains as a valid reason for having these types of weapons. If you have these weapons for protection, it is a bit irrelevant if you can't get ammo for them when times get bad, which is the entire reason for having a weapon.

This may be paranoid thinking, but it is valid, if you truly wish to prepare yourself.

Also it is my right to own these weapons so I can defend myself from any threat possible whether it be a home invader or my own government.

ah but liberals dont believe government could ever be a threat (unless the GOP is in majority)

you are a ignorant bigot, that serves no purpose here or anyplace else. A waste of human skin, a waste of other peoples O2. Why don't you do the right thing for the first time in your life and STFU.

back to your coffee house limp wrist. talk is cheap over the internet.

According to the FBI's report for 2011 murders: 323 rifle, 1694 knife or other cutting instrument, 496 blunt object, 726 body (fist, arm, leg). I didn't pull the numbers for handgun and shotgun (shotgun was about 375 as I recall) as I only wanted to show rifle vs common other methods.

Some posters here obviously don't have a clue what an assault weapon even is. Madame Feinstein has you convinced that it's any firearm that looks scary to her.

If there are at least 3,000,000 firearms in the US, how come everyone hasn't been murdered?

And just as a continued comment about Fiesty and and the Honor code for all of Newsvine:

Apparently your Code of Honor only applies to the people you at the newsvine pick and choose. I understand that this user is Queen of the Liberals/Progressives and untouchable with all her likely communistic/socialist friends at the vine, but let's be clear.

THIS IS A VIOLATION OF YOUR RULES THAT YOU REFUSE TO ENFORCE BECAUSE
OF POLITICAL BIAS.

This is the third time I've followed your rules and not responded to this childish abusive malicious personal attack with no substantive points that clearly was started by Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL. But I'm 100% sure that if I did respond I'd be the one banned. I've see it first hand done to others.

Your moderators are a shill, the Newsvine is a shill.

From: http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/18/15997391-obamas-push-on-gun-violence-begins-to-take-shape
Post:
#1.202 - Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:19 PM PST
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
[To] Four Points Shy Of Genius

And now:

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

The Newton Massace could have occured with ANY GUN!!!!!

Sorry little buddy, ANY GUN is not capable of firing 30+ bullets in less than 20 seconds!

You paranoid, tough talking gun nuts crack me up...

So easy for men like to to trash talk your threats from behind the anonymity of a keyboard to compensate for other areas of your *ahem* "shortcomings".

PS: A comment full of spelling errors, doesn't bolster your credibility, other than to confirm your 8th grade education!

#1.36 - Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:00 AM PST

Now explain how that post by Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL isn't a direct violation of:

Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks. If you see something disrespectful or inappropriate, report it - rather than further inflaming the situation.

Adding a personal attack to an otherwise valuable comment or article serves only to render that contribution invalid in its entirety. Such content is subject to moderation.

Harassment and/or intimidation of others on Newsvine will not be tolerated, and patterns of such behavior may result in account cancelation.

I've seen other people on the Newsvine Perma-banned for MUCH LESS. I've seen friends banned for reporting trash talk like this "too much". The rules only apply to Conservatives or Libertarians. If you're a Liberal/Obama is your messiah/communist/authoritarian/socialist you obviously get a pass.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, as a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state."

Oh wait! You're used to reading it in legal phrases and not in sentence form. Either way, it means the same thing.

"Well Regulated" is defined as: well equipped, well ordered and well trained...

"Militia" is defined as: A body of CITIZENS ARMED and trained, esp. by a state*, for military service APART FROM the regular armed forces. -- reserve militia. ALL persons who are not exempt from military service and not actively serving in the armed forces OR national guard. -- Black's Law Dictionary 8th Edition

*"Esp. by a state" is separated because the law does NOT REQUIRE it to be managed BY the state. HOWEVER, private militias MUST follow and abide by Constitutional Law.

ALL laws restricting firearms ARE unconstitutional and therefore unlawful, and thereby unenforceable... {Unconstitutional Official Acts -- 16 Am Jur 2d, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256}

Okay, for any of you that think you can go after a gunman and take him down while he is changing magazines - say goodbye to your life. It takes someone who knows their weapon between 5 and 10 seconds to do this.

NY has reached a tentative deal to limit magazines to 7 bullets. For those of you who do not know guns - this will effectively ban most semi-automatic weapons. Now, think about the woman in Georgia who fired 6 rounds at an intruder to protect herself and her children. Now suppose that it was you and you were limited by the government on how you could protect your family. Suppose it was more than one intruder - you are able to take down one, but what about the other? The government has no business restricting the law abiding public in this manner. Will it stop crime? Nope. Might it even increase crime? More than likely as is documented in countries that have banned guns.

Once again Filthy, the insider, posts first again. It's all a game.

Feisty

Yes we do have the right to have AR 15's-it is called the Second Amendment. And we require those weapons to save us from government tyranny and slavery.

In order to drive a 2,500-pound vehicle on public roads, I have to complete successfully a driver's education program; pass a written examination and a road test at the DVM; insure myself and my vehicle; register my vehicle with the DVM; obtain a driver's license; carry my insurance card and registration and license while driving and present them to a police officer upon demand when I am stopped for a traffic violation; and subject myself to the penalties of violating laws regarding motor vehicles, which may include losing my license to drive one. Furthermore, if I am unable to drive due to epilepsy, I am entered into the DVM database as someone who is not allowed to have a driver's license. All of this is required and makes perfect sense to me. After all, a 2,500-pound vehicle capable of cruising at 70 mph is a dangerous thing that requires training and other regulations.

Whey, then, could I walk into a gun store today if I so desired, pass a cursory background check on the telephone, whip out my credit card, and walk out within an hour with an AR-15 with several thirty-round magazines and several hundred rounds of ammunition, without any formal training, licensing, or psychological screening? Equally important, why do some gun owners and the NRA fear having to do through that to buy an AR-15? I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I kinda think-- if you don't have anything to hide, what are you afraid of? Are you afraid that you'd flunk the psych screening? Afraid that you'd have to prove that you can follow safety regulations and so forth? What's the big deal? We do it for cars. Why not guns?

@Johntho So that's all I get with a reasonable argument is an insult? You tore into Caesar but you are leaving my point alone and calling me stupid. It's fine if you don't want to own a gun I respect that decision, but people shouldn't tell me you don't need this or that because they have never been is such a situation. I have and I am glad I had the equipment I did.

RI Mom - No one wants to attack their country. The reason for the 2nd Amendment is to provide citizens with the means to TAKE BACK their country. It is no longer your country if the government suspends part or all of the Constitution. Want to know why Japan never invaded the US during WWII? Because they knew that American civilians were armed and would stand and fight till the last man was standing.

How about a Budget...

I really wish all of you bleeding hearts would learn the facts before spewing your ignorant opinions....assault rifles are already banned - they've been banned since the late 80s. The kind of rifle used in the CT school shooting WAS NOT AN ASSAULT RIFLE. It was a semi-automatic rifle that shoots 1 round per trigger squeeze. Contrary to the Red Headed idiot from IL, it can't shoot 30plus rounds in only 20 secs...it can only shoot as fast as the person can cycle the trigger - much like a shotgun, a deer rifle, a semi-auto pistol, or a .38 special revolver. Check out this slide show to learn about the weapons you ignorantly label as assault or military-grade weapons....

http://www.assaultweapon.info/

He had those yet chose the assault rifle. I wonder why?

Of course nobody could stop him. Could you with only a hand gun?

What I find reveling in this article are the quotes from President Obama about guns and gun bans. No addressing the fact that criminals circumvent the current laws in the country and that the government is some how allowed to look the other way on "Fast and Furious" mistakes. Just how many guns are in the hands of illegals and criminals because of the policies of this government? Just how many people have been killed because the government refuses to meet its legal obligation on immigration and border control? Just how many terrorist are jumping up and down with the realization they are soon to be the only ones armed with assault weapons against a government who won't enforce its current gun laws or boarders?

Politics as usual...posturing and no substance. Exchanging the illusion of security for less freedom and protection...nice.

Next

So, who is Feisty, Den Mother, Mob Boss or just another he,she,it that knows little about the subject he.she, it is so quick to comment on? 30 rounds in 20 seconds eh Feisty?

Sum - the difference is that the Constitution does not guarantee you the right to drive a car. As for why people are opposed to jumping through hoops, registering, etc...they do not want the government tracking who has what and where they are. One of the arguments against registration is that it would make it easy for a tyrannical government to confiscate weapons so as to castrate the citizens and make it next to impossible for them to rebel. Criminal background checks - fine. As for psychological exams - are you aware that some consider depression a mental illness? Who has not suffered a form of depression in their life. DOes that mean that they should not be permitted to exercise their 2nd Amendment right?

RI Mom, 190,000,00 civilians were attacked and killed by their own governments in the last century. That is more than the populations of France and Spain combined. Our government is currently assassinating US citizens on "suspicion" of a crime. No hearing, no indictment, no trial, no evidence presented. Ruby Ridge? Waco? Same thing. Get your facts straight. The US government has no problem killing it's own citizens. Look up Obama assassination of 16 year old US citizen. You cannot have an intelligent conversation with someone who conveniently ignores facts.

Does anyone who's arguing for an assault weapons ban know the difference between an assault weapon and a regular deer hunting rifle?

Hint. There's not one.

Pig - "As the President said, we are not deadbeats."

We spend way more than we take in, and my promises that we can't possibly fulfill. I think that might be the definition of deadbeat.

What is this 30 round clip everyone is talking about... Last I checked, it's a 30 round magazine. I guess it merely shows that most people on here have no clue what they are talking about.

Dear 1.75Lorielle Sisson

I give you 1.82 truther1234 as an example.

and I've read a lot worse....

Seriously... they are out there....and they subscribe to internet sites and plan on building a CITADEL in Idaho and a compound in Texas....

Sum Succubus:

In order to drive a 2,500-pound vehicle on public roads....

You have the "right to free travel", however, driving is a privilege and not a right guaranteed to be protected by the Constitution. Fathers used to train their sons and daughters the art of the firearm and marksmanship. The failure of this being continued and the disinformation by the political groups has lead to the weakening of America. And one thing being propagated is this falsehood that people have military "styled" {ie -looks like} guns out of fear. It is not. It is out of vigilance and duty to country that these types of guns are preferred.

”The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the underdog is a sine qua non ["something essential" lit. "without which not"] for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let’s not have any native militia or police.” -- Adolph Hitler

I've said it before, and I'm gonna say it again. We don't need so much "gun control" we need our justice system, if you can call it that, to dish out harsh punishment to people who commit violent crimes, whether with a gun or a butter knife, and the same for rape and child molestation. Bring back capital punishment and chain gangs and STOP CODDLING THE CRIMINAL!!! You can take away all the guns you want, but they'll always be there for the people that want them, and then it'll just leave people who want or need one for legal home protection left out to dry. Start hanging people for their crimes, or don't be surprised when you start seein' vigilantes on the rise, and for damn good reason!!! The people who whine about we shouldn't have harsh penalties dealt out to criminals, YOU are the ones partly responsible. When a violent criminal meets you or someone close to you, and you find they'll serve a couple years, you'll know what I mean, but for now, you just THINK if you get rid of the guns, you get rid of the problem. You couldn't be more wrong. I'm a victim, so I know what I'm talkin' about. A former prison warden told me that if I ever found the guys who shot me, to NOT take 'em to court because they'd then know my name, address, etc., and what they didn't finish to begin with, they'd know exactly where to find me the next time and finish it then, unless o' course I wanted to run from 'em forever, and that ain't gonna happen

You can't have a

conversation

with

someone

who keeps weapons

because

they might

want

to attack their own

country.

I notice jethro is abscent on this ignorant post. guess this must be an 'intellectual post' LOL.

Second Amendment:

The whole premise was not to have standing armies that could be used for nefarious purpose by unscrupulous leaders in pursuit of political ideals or financial gain. Aristocratic, Communist, and totalitarian societies have the regulations you seek. When you fear your countrymen you have no country. Instruments do not cause death. People do. That is the problem. Look elsewhere for your remedy.

@Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

You imply that not just any gun could have been used in the Sandy Hook tragedy, it could have only happened with an assault rifle, but not just any gun can fire 30 rounds in 20 seconds. The question I have for you is, did it really happen like that? Did he really enter the school and fire off 30 rounds in 20 seconds? Of course not. It took place over the course of a few minutes. 90 rounds per minute (30 rounds in 20 seconds is 1.5 rounds per second, ergo 90 rounds per minute) is not a terribly high rate of fire, and can be achieved with almost any semi auto firearm. So yes, it could have happened with virtually any other firearm.

Caesar Augustus-

Fisty, POS define assualt weapon.

Its not up to people on comment boards or pundits to define, it is up to the people who draft the bill. They will give the parameters that define the weapons to be affected.

BTW-- This response does not reflect my stance on the law. I am undecided. Though I, like most other people don't see the reason this type of weapon should be allowed.

Consider that there are many weapons (arms) that the ordinary citizen is not allowed to have and with good reason.

That being said, I would not be affected and I have yet to see what the details of this proposed ban would be and reserve my opinion until there is more information.

Haggis-Bingo

That is in fact an out-right fabrication about Australia. Gun crime in fact went up 33% and violent crime went up 400%. Break-ins went up even more as criminals knew they were not going to get shot. Chicago has a gun ban. It's not working. Until the southern border is sealed there can be no end to illegal gun smuggling. That won't happen as Obama wants the latino vote.

There is absolutely NO reason for John Q. Public to own assault weapons... PERIOD!

Yes, there is. It's called the US Constitution.

Sorry little buddy, ANY GUN is not capable of firing 30+ bullets in less than 20 seconds!

A 12 gauge shotgun can spit out 75 .33 caliber rounds in about 7 seconds.

Really, your lack of knowledge of the subject matter is appalling.

There is absolutely NO reason for John Q. Public to own assault weapons... PERIOD!

Those weapons are designed for only ONE purpose and that is to KILL!

My guns haven't killed anyone. Are they defective?

Face it Feisty....you want a ban on ALL guns.

Now,you can explain to us all your Grand Scheme to get the criminals to give up their guns.

'cause you aren't getting mine.

Feisty, this moron should be vigorously pursuing a birth certificate, not taking away American rights. Assult weapons were banned in this country during the WWII era and already exists. You are right about one thing though. Those guns like all others are designed to kill. Designed to kill the jerk who attempts to harm me or my family. Designed to kill the lifless garbage who lives off liberal laws and refuses to work while attempting to rob my home. Designed to kill that dope head who infected himself and tries to carjack me at an intersection. Designed to kill the the flake that rapes one of my daughters. Yep, you ar correct.

Ill give up my semi-automatics when feisty gives up her big uninformed Liberal mouth !!! But I know people like she/he have to bitch at something , anything , to be able to get through the day !!! SOOOOO TRUEEEE !!! We all know the type !!!

@Feisty Sure you can get 30 rounds off in 20 seconds but you wont hit anything. Without a lifetime of training there is no anyone can get off 30 rounds in 20 seconds and hit every target they were meaning to. How do I know, I compatation shoot and that is hard as f*%k to get under 70 seconds with only 10 targets.

Crime rates didn't decrease any faster under the previous ban. Crime rates didn't increase when the previous ban expired and sales soared. VT was carried out with weapons that wouldn't have fallen under the previous ban and it had the highest death toll of recent mass shootings. The common theme in mass shootings is a mentally ill shooter, not the type of weapon used. We all should be intelligent enough to see this but somehow we aren't. We'll ban "assault weapons" and solve nothing. Then what?

If you sincerely want to address the issue of gun violence, then focus on the actual cause and quit insisting on doing the same thing over and over (i.e. tweaking gun control laws) which has already proven ineffective.

President Obama was sure right about one thing: sure are a lot of folks these days clinging to their guns and their religion.

The only SURE way to get comprehensive gun control in the United States is to advocate for universal gun ownership among minority groups, especially in the black community. Then you will see folks running to ban guns across the board.

Did I mention that America tends to eat its young?

I can't give you a reason anyone needs any firearm. 2nd amendment notwithstanding, I don't have anything that would necessitate the need for me to have a firearm. So it seems logical when you draw a connection like; People don't "NEED" guns. Guns are used in senseless violent crimes. Guns should be banned. I can understand how this connection is made. The true beauty of this argument is that it can be applied to lots of other things.

I don't drink alcohol. No real reason just haven't had the desire in quite some time. Alcohol causes quite a few problems for our society. DUI rates are high. There are quite a few deaths as a result of automobile accidents where alcohol was involved. High school and College students are involved in alcohol related incidents with high frequency. Many of those incidents involve sexual assaults or other indecent liberties. Recently a college freshman died as a result of alcohol ingestion. Domestic violence involving alcohol is report daily. No one needs alcohol. Saying you do need alcohol is a perceived cry for help is it not? Since people do not need alcohol, and alcohol is involved in so many tragic events in our society; alcoholic beverages should be illegal. Of course this did not work last time we tried it but it might be different this time.

Of course this probably irritates some folks. Rightfully so, I don't drink so I won't really miss it. The real question is, who am I to tell you what rights YOU should have. Last week Governor Cuomo (NY) attempted to appear compromising with his statement, "I own a shotgun. I am not talking about banning shotguns. I am talking about banning large capacity assault rifles." This quote may be slightly off, he may have said "we" vice "I". But the gist of the statement is accurate and the message was easily interpreted, or misinterpreted, as "I'm not talking about curtailing my rights, just yours." Governor Cuomo's statement echoes some of your sentiments as well, "Responsible Americans can own certain firearms, just not ones that look like assualt rifles." Again this is seeminingly logical and can be applied to other vices. Staying with the alcohol theme, that college freshman would probably not have died had he not be able to have liquor, there fore liquor should be illegal and on beer and wine, at a reduced alcohol content, should be available to Americans. And again, the responsible, occasional drinker is being held responsible for the actions of the irresponsible.

If you allow the government to erode and take the liberties of responsible, law abiding Americans sooner or later they'll get around to taking something you personally don't want to give up. What will your argument be then, "I NEED THAT!"?

Hal,

Caesar Augustus-

Fisty, POS define assualt weapon.

Its not up to people on comment boards or pundits to define, it is up to the people who draft the bill. They will give the parameters that define the weapons to be affected.

Reminds me of the healthcare bill. Pelosi saying "you have to pass it before you know what is in it". How is all of that working out for you. Heathcare insurance up an average of 25% for everyone. Taxes upon taxes kicking it that no one discussed previously. No thanks. I want to have a full discussion on this one before we pass ANYTHING!

Poor Feisty. A sheeple true and blue. Libtards just love to "tell you" what's good for you. I don't imagine she has a husband. It would be a fate worse than death.

Back in 2004 a man went into an Amish school, tired the girls up, let the boys go and shot everyone of the little girls. Ten were shot and 5 died. This wasn't an assault weapon. We need to do what other countries have done. Put people in the schools to protect our kids and make sure you can't just walk into a school. We need alarm systems in each school similar to bank alarms. Timothy McVee killed 98 children in a nursery at the Federal building in OK. He used fertilizer and a u haul truck. In order to take peoples guns away you would have to go door to door and the criminals would hide their guns because they are criminals. We need to talk with other countries that have armed guards and teachers in their schools. Not this knee jerk reaction. We could assign a couple of military police in each school. We are already paying them to be in the military. People would attack little kids if they knew they might get shot.

Steve I have made the same point about the close quarters effectiveness of a small caliber rifle.. Each magnum buckshot shell produces the same amount of projectiles as an entire clip of 9mm.. Home made speed loaders for a pump shotgun can be used to allow the rapid firing of up to 30 shells in a minute.. So 5x10x30 with 00 buck or 5x20x30 0 buckshot thats a whole lotta lead.. Try to get that volume with a handgun, and some shotguns hold more then 5.. If they get their ban-o-rama rolling they will not stop till we are a socialist dependent population.. All this gun ban BS and every single firearm restricting law is unconstitutional.. Every US citizen and that includes criminals that have paid their debt to society are entitled to possess weapons.. Simple fact is that the Constitution demands that we all be armed irregular Militia and be prepared to defend the Constitutional laws along with the bill of rights from all foreign and domestic threats.. The biggest threat to the Constitution is the federal government and their desire to insert themselves into every aspect of our lives by overstepping their charter which is to mainly protect our borders.. And you see how well that is working out.. This socialization of the country is unconstitutional and I hope people wake up before we have to pay for freedom yet again..

Good luck defending yourself in a disaster because the brown shirts went after every registered owner they could find during the New Orleans nightmare.. Their excuse was criminals were shooting at people so their response was to take the guns away from the law abiding..

Why stop there! I agree that gun control should be used for Behavior Modification of the citizens of the US. Obama and the Dem. Congress should continue with their campain. After the guns are dealt with, they should work on outlawing automobiles because there are too many sickos out there that speed and kill people. Next, they should propse a ban on all ignition devices because there were quite a few Arsonists out there that managed to kill people. Next, Knives of course because as you know, is those sickos don't have guns, they will opt for knives (just think, that law could have helped OJ). After that, I think Obama should take a good look at making Commercial Aircraft illegal especially 757s and 767s because there were thousands of people killed by those things on 9/11.

Get the Point!.... A free country is just that and it doesn't mean people like most "posters" should be telling others what the can and can't have if you obey the laws.

We have more of a right to own firearms in this country, than automobiles.

Nobody is forcing you to own a firearm, nobody should force you not to own one either if you obey laws.

Sorry little buddy, ANY GUN is not capable of firing 30+ bullets in less than 20 seconds!

Your naivete has no bounds. My wife is an average gun user and can reload 10 round mags in 3-4 seconds. If she carried more mags she could expend the same amount of ammunition as someone who had a few 30 round mags in the same time frame knucklehead. Its not rocket surgery Feisty, you are just as ignorant as any politician who has never held a gun.

You paranoid, tough talking gun nuts crack me up...

You liberal, buy everything the current administration says hook line and sinker, drones crack me up.

So easy for men like to to trash talk your threats from behind the anonymity of a keyboard to compensate for other areas of your *ahem* "shortcomings".

So easy for you women who put your big boy pants on and talk tough to men through the same medium you fool. You use the same tactics and devices yet criticize others you Joespeh Goebbels wannabe.

PS: A comment full of spelling errors, doesn't bolster your credibility, other than to confirm your 8th grade education!

And someone who has taken 9th grade's spell check class makes a better attempt at prose.....please. Feisty you know so little about the subject matter you are running backwards here. Stop being the placating cheerleader for your beloved president and learn something before you sit at your keyboard.

And for the record, I have a pistol with a 13 round magazine. I would have no trouble emptying 3 in 30 seconds if they were already loaded. 36 shots. No 30 round "clip" (nice terminology Mr. President), but it would be the same effect. Really though, at that rate of fire it is commonly refered to spray and pray. Accuracy really goes downhill.

In addition to my post #1.104, The NRA does not speak for me and the "Gun Show loop hole" should have never existed. Purchasers should always have the burden of proof when it comes to eligibility and demonstrated safety. Sellers who omit or overlook the legal criteria should be held strictly accountable. Personal responsibility and accountability should be held to the highest standard.

First I want to mention, haggisbingo is a woman.

You know, all you anti-gun guys (Feisty) and the rest of you who say, "ready, 3, 2, 1, here we go with the gun nuts... You crack me up. Very hypocratical considering it's a two way street and if you scroll around, you get both for, and against saying the same ole thing each and every time.

Bottom line is, change laws, outlaw all guns & ammo do whatever you want to make it against the law to own guns but, I'll "always" have mine.

@RI mom I find it offensive that you call me mentally handicapped because I see situations and have been in situations where I have used a firearm to defend myself. By the way the president is taking way my rights when he limits my ability to own something. you may not see a reason for it, but I have been in a situation that needed it and I used it.

interesting, much like the economy, liberals don't know much on the subject. See economy tax and spend and guns ban and slam.

Fisty lets talk about 30 round 'clips' for that 'assault' rifle or bullpup collapsible stocks (is that even possible?)

Fisty and company make ignorance look competent

Cho nor Harris and Klebold used 'assault rifles' for their massacres yet they assaulted and murdered many....

once again people an assault rifle has different modes semi auto three round burst and full auto you cannot buy them now! they are already against the law to own.

Oh man, I love them Fiesty, redheaded and stupid...will you marry me

1. The AR-15 is only by government mis-naming an assault rifle.

2. While not the only one available, the AR-15 is usually used as a defense weapon.

3. Any stupid rules/law made by idiot-brain-dead legislators will not stop criminals.

4. Hammers kill more people in the US than AR-15s.

Makes no logical sense - doesn't matter whether you are left or right minded. The story unfolded that he used "handguns", four of them, and left the AR15 in the trunk (why is this story changing?). The vast majority of crimes are committed by "handguns", not rifles. If we really wanted to stop gun crime, we would be going after "handguns" not assault rifles. The primary purpose of having assault rifles is to protect us from tyranny, protect us from our government, so is it any surprise that is the very weapon our government is trying to twist this to be about and are trying to take from our hands? I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but logic dictates a different path would be taken.

I would also suggest that we should be going after the culture causing people to be so violent, not what "weapon" they chose to express their violent nature. Where is Obama's intellect now? Shouldn't he be speaking of the need for more education, reestablishing family units, restoring morality? That is where our leadership should be directing us.

A link:

#50208495

RI Mom He hasn't yet. He is trying to and that is something I don't like. And what do you mean by "bullet happy"?

Makes no logical sense - doesn't matter whether you are left or right minded. The story unfolded that he used "handguns", four of them, and left the AR15 in the trunk (why is this story changing?). The vast majority of crimes are committed by "handguns", not rifles. If we really wanted to stop gun crime, we would be going after "handguns" not assault rifles. The primary purpose of having assault rifles is to protect us from tyranny, protect us from our government, so is it any surprise that is the very weapon our government is trying to twist this to be about and are trying to take from our hands? I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but logic dictates a different path would be taken.

I would also suggest that we should be going after the culture causing people to be so violent, not what "weapon" they chose to express their violent nature. Where is Obama's intellect now? Shouldn't he be speaking of the need for more education, reestablishing family units, restoring morality? That is where our leadership should be directing us.

A link:

#50208495

RI Mom The NRA does not speak for all firearm owners but remember there are a whole lot of US citizens that believe in the Constitution and the rights it gives.. If you do not understand the amendments and their purpose just read the letters of the founding fathers.. Seem some of our Supreme Court Justices would rather ignore them and instead insert their own liberal interpretations.. Are you even aware that all citizens 17/63 are not just compelled but demanded to be irregular militia if they are not disabled or already serving as active military.. Some states like Ohio mirror this in their Constitutions as well so there is absolutely no doubt of intent.. Somewhere one of the founding fathers states that all citizens should be armed with weapons of the day to protect themselves from the attempts at overstepping or overbearing government officials might attempt.. This being his description of intent of the Second amendment as they wrote it.. So take your socialist/communist blind following of Obama the socialist and compare it to what he describes as an antiquated document and leave..

The wannabe tyrant-in-chief should forget about trying to deny us our inalienable right to self-defense and do the job he has neglected to do 4 out of the last 5 years. Law requires this idiot puppet to submit a budget by February 4th. He's already said he's not going to meet it...again. Time to begin a petition at whitehouse.gov calling for his impeachment on the grounds he's too lazy or incompetent to do his job. Perhaps he should lay off the chronic, put down the video game controller, sober up and get to work.

Would you left libs please read this article and then contact the woman and tell her she's delusional and creating an atmosphere of paranoia, because this could never happen in America.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/on_the_front_lines_of_the_culture_wars/2011/04/she-survived-hitler-and-wants-to-warn-america.html

Rights lovers, please post this on some forum from this home page every day this month. Please!!

I see alot of responses to the left wing loons who have no answers so they parrot the liberal talking points about "assault weopons". They are clueless so don't waste your time. The "fisting deadhead" is just some fat bald pasty white dude who lives over a donut shop and bitches when his welfare and foodstamps are late while spending all day trolling. This is a fact so DON'T doubt me!!! I have solid evidence!!!

One fact Feisty conveniently forgot about regarding the Sandy Hook tragedy and these "evil looking" rifles is that THAT particular gun wasn't even used! It was at the scene, but it was left in the car....

"I do not fear fire, because I keep fire extinguishers in my home.

I do not fear starvation, because I make sure the pantry is full.

I do not fear auto accidents, because I wear my seat belt.

I do not fear bogeymen, because I keep firearms available.

Preparation is not fear. It's prescience against tragedy. Anything else is a provision of failure." -- Anonymous

Don't get excited folks, Obama's not going to sucessfully ban anything. The only thing he might accomplish is to alienate some of the millions of gun owners who were stupid enough to vote for him. Gun control is the one issue that cuts across all political and party lines, and gun owners are seriously passionate about their right to do so.

I picture fisty as a lifer getting govt stipends for her 13 grandchildren she claims she takes care of.

You are the scariest type of paranoid delusional.

LMFAO, have you ever read your own posts? Im sure they are the epitome of sane on shutter island

The person that posted this needs to get a clue. All he seems to have is personal attacks and little logic.

"Big t, DK, Paws, txmom, and Kelsy, not one of you offer a solution, but you defend the gun that killed 20 1st graders and 6 adults among others. In my opinion you people are the ones that do need your guns taken away before you hurt yourself or others. Really ignorant post, you people don't have a clue. What if it was your kid?"

Well first off it wasn't the gun. It was the person pulling the trigger that killed those kids.

Second someone posted what solutions are the right offering up for this. Well I don't see the left offering any solutions either. What is being proposed will make little or no difference in gun related deaths, even mass murder types.

The right has always been in favor of tougher laws against criminals even the death penalty. But then the left is against that. We need to fix the problem, that being social issues like mentally ill people and true illegal gun sales to criminals and getting tough with laws already on the books dealing with violent crimes. I'd be fine with background checks but not a ban on the clips or the guns. IT WILL NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE and making laws just for the sake of making laws is crazy.

I'm sure you will attack me because I don't agree with your knee jerk reactions but you will still not offer any real solutions as I have.

A free people not only ought to be armed and disciplined

but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence

from any who might attempt to abuse them

which would include their own government.

-George Washington

Now before you liberals set out to disparage this remark understand that other quotes by George Washington are the building blocks of other civil rights and Amendments which you all hold dear including the 1st and 4th Amendments. If you decide to pick apart the 2nd Amendment right to suit you, you might as well start dismantling the others that you cling to including the right of free speech which you are here exercising...

SUM~

What's the big deal? We do it for cars. Why not guns?

the government isn't trying to restrict car buying

haggisbingo-2225582 Comment collapsed by the community

• The facts on the BAN in Australia After Port Arthur Massacre(1996):
• NO Mass Murders since!!
• Suicides have plunged
• Accidental gun deaths have plunged
• Violent Crime plunged
• Mission Accomplished!
• YOU CAN"T ARGUE WITH FACTS!! (but I know the gubers will)

1st, you're wrong.

2nd. What's a guber?

Crime up Down Under

Since Australia's gun ban, armed robberies increase 45%

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2000/03/1933/#5MTh58qTeKxGlJho.99
That's just one article I found, if you have any sources other than big, blocky, bolded text go ahead and put it up.

What a GREAT! communication from the President. It was good to hear directly from him, again. I think he's done an OUTSTANDING! job of taking charge and overseeing this CRISIS. (a Crisis is a "crossroads") The "Fruit" of the Vice President's efforts are obviously still to be seen.

My only hope is that we are given all the exact recommendations that he will be looking at, along with exactly where or with whom each recommendation originated and then came into being, and how; notwithstanding "just exactly who else is on this administration panel, besides the Vice President, and where is accountability and accredibility with each recommendation going to be found? To be "literally" seen, by the Public?" (AND NOT JUST BY CONGRESS, FOR EXAMPLE)

Clyburn: "Background checks should be universal." Like the Martians will go along with that.

Obama says he'll 'vigorously' pursue 'meaningful' assault weapons ban

I guess he's taking it to the golf course. Watch out guys. He means business.

Seriously folks. If those individuals posting here want to help prevent future mass murders like the school shooting you truly need to focus your attention on those with serious mental health issues. If you're not than you are not addressing the actual problem and I question your intelligence or your agenda.

Dear Sum, Question, so you support illegals getting drivers licenses? They can't speak English and prove who they are and I wonder if they have drivers test in Spanish. I was hit by an illegal who promptly took off. We followed him and blocked him in. Yep - warned him I was armed. Police came and arrested him for drunk driving and he had a butcher knife in the back seat. Of coarse he had no insurance because although he had a drivers lisence, he was illegal and my insurance paid. Cop told us good work.

As far as I am concerned, he used his car as a weapon and could have killed many innocent people but libs are ok with this even though this guy was a criminal.

Should be ban all cars?

Mystery Rhee: Quit slobbering on the screen please.

Skyking5150 and the rest. Hagginsbro is another troll who wants to say (Just like Peirs Morgan) that somehow gun bans work yet almost EVERY time you look at the statistics what do you see people? You see violent crimes go UP! Are you all so blind/dumb you can't add 2+2 here. You take away the guns and the CRIMINALS now KNOW they can assault/rob/rape/beat/shoot you because YOU wont have a gun to defend yourself with. POS Piers tried to say "How many gun murders" because that was the ONLY statistic he had to defend his stance but yet every other one including VIOLENT crime (rape/robbery/etc) dont lie and SHOW that taking away guns just doesnt work. We are a violent people and have been since the caveman days and you arent going to change that but for some reason people seem to think the magic answer to this problem is to just let the criminals and government have all the weapons and let the law-abiding citizen be screwed. Sorry just doesnt make sense. Look at the crime statistics across EVERY city that bans or makes it almost impossible to own a gun. Guess what you will see.... Come on people OPEN your damn eyes. Yeah Australia took them all away and the CRIME WENT UP.... Well geesh no sh#$%

@RI Mom I'm sorry you misunderstood me I meant "taking" as the process of, currently being preformed. Not past tense. And trying to limit what size magazine Ican own for my gun and trying to tell me what I can't and can buy or own is a violation of my rights. He is still pushing for an "assault weapons" ban.

Layton-3733410

"My starting point is to focus on what makes sense, what works. . . . . And I think we can do that in a sensible way that comports with the Second Amendment."

Making sense and working together. There's an idea the GOP used to embrace . . . a long, long time ago.

Well we already know the previous "ban" on assault weapons didn't do jack @!$%# so please explain again how continuing failed policies "makes sense"?

Let's read between the lines shall we? He wants to focus on what works in terms of pacifying the sheeple with a false sense of security because it makes "sense" to use a terrible tragedy to promote his progressive agenda.

Svenolafson @1.140: Well said.

There is absolutely NO reason for John Q. Public to own assault weapons... PERIOD!

I hate to have to do this, but... you couldn't be more wrong. There absolutely IS a reason, and it's the same reason our Nation's Founding Fathers wrote the Second Amendment:

The Second Amendment was not written to ensure our right to defend our lives, our families, or our property. It was not written to ensure we could enjoy hunting. It was not written to ensure our enjoyment of sport shooting. It was written with one purpose, and one purpose only:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." - The Declaration of Independence

Please note the section in bold: "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the RIGHT of the PEOPLE to alter or to abolish it,"

This is why we have the Second Amendment.

Our nation's Founding Fathers were far wiser statesmen than any who have been elected in the past 100 years. They had the wisdom and foresight to realize that ANY government, even our own, made of fallible human beings, could fall to corruption (we have corruption in spades), abuse (we're getting there) and tyranny (not there yet...).

When a government become corrupt, abusive and tyrannical, do you think you can simply write your congressmen and ask them to vote to end our government, give up their jobs, lifetime benefits and pensions and step aside?

Do you honestly believe President Obama would hold a Town Hall meeting and sign an Executive Order disbanding our government?

No. Abolishing a corrupt, abusive and tyrannical government can only be done one way: by force of arms. Such a government will not step aside at the will of the people. It must be put down like a rabid animal. And that requires high-capacity magazines, full of armor-piercing rounds, fired from assault weapons.

One need only look at the events in the middle east - the rebellions in Syria, the execution of Saddam Hussain, the execution of Gaddafi - none of these people stepped down willingly. It took force of arms to drive them from their palaces and deliver them to their just ends.

When the same happens in this country, how will we, The People, be able to throw off the yoke of oppression and free ourselves? With Strongly Worded Letters?

No. This is exactly why we have the Second Amendment, and why it remains vital to retain the Rights it grants, without abridgment, without limitation.

Anything else is UnAmerican, an insult to all the brave men and women who sacrificed their lives for the freedoms you're so ready to hand over, and illustrates exactly why we're so far behind other nations scholastically.

Second Amendment
"As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:"

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

There we have it. We need to have a "well regulated militia." So the NRA needs to get out of the way, in order that we can regulate the militia.

ahh. the silly "no one needs it " argument. is that really the best you can do ? its a RIGHT. No one needs to justify it to you, just because you can't understand. I don't thing anyone NEEDS to drive a 500 HP Corvette to work either, but i sure won't be trying to stop them, and driving is allegedly, a privilege, NOT a right. Get a hobby. It's too bad the President can't put all that effort into something really important, like the economy, jobs, and Americas impending financial implosion.

"Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

There is absolutely NO reason for John Q. Public to own assault weapons... PERIOD!

Those weapons are designed for only ONE purpose and that is to KILL!"

Ohhhh, because you say so.

Your right, they are designed to kill. That's why I own assault wepons with 30 round clips, to protect me and my family.

We don't give a sh!t what you or any pansey bed-wetting pu$$ys think or say about the situation.

Next gun show I'm even going to by a couple more AKs, a couple thousand more rounds of 7.62X39mm rounds of ammo and two 30 round clips for each just because I can.

I hope that p!sses you off.

Is this the same honesty from the President where I was led to believe that Federal money would not be used to fund abortion? Since he told me the truth on that then I guess that I am blindly led to believe that my gun/s are safe.

AMEN FOUR POINTS SHY #1.67...AMEN. And right below me, she got 2 votes for saying nothing kind of like her lord and master. Go ahead and suspend me--I don't give a crap.

No reason? Really?

How about those Korean shop owners during the LA Riots who had to watch their stores looted and burned by angry mobs of Democrats, err.. thugs.

The reason for the so-called hysteria?....the President using his Executive Order...whatever he "decides" what his Executive Order will be.

@RI Mom First, I do not own any firearms that fall under the definition of assault weapon. All of my firearms are semi-automatic and cycle from the closed bolt position. Second the president and vice-president have already talked about using the executive power to go around the law making process. It doesn't matter if that is what the power is for the fact is he is willing to do it. So yes he can impose a ban on my mags and defense rifles. Also I have been quite civil this whole time and would appreciate if you lay off the insults.

Feisty...generally i side with you on many things. You're wrong here though. Newton occured with handguns. The AR was found in HIS CAR UNUSED.

Every Liberal post I have read is predicated on their fear and overwhelming ignorance of guns, and the scare tactics of the government. A previous poster commented on the rules of propaganda which is what this is. The likely underlying driver for this push in assault weapon bans (let's face it, it's more of an attempt to weaken the NRA, as they have been thrust to the forefront of this) the recent blows to unions, and the perceived damage to the left. The current administration is attempting to vilify the NRA base weaken a large constituency of the right.

The typical lambs of the left, ignorant of anything./everything they speak of in regards to firearms, is all the more willing to the conduit the administration needs to push the fear of firearms.

Handguns are just as deadly as an assault rifle, in the right situation (VA Tech massacre). That doesn't make it right, but every mass killing in the last 2 years were committed by people far from sane (please take time and look up each killer - WOW). Yet the argument isn't about the mental state of America.

Job1: First you need to know what the legal definitions are for the terms "well regulated" and "militia", rather than use "beliefs" and "feeling" to describe them.

"Well Regulated" is defined as: well equipped, well ordered and well trained...

"Militia" is defined as: A body of CITIZENS ARMED and trained, esp. by a state*, for military service APART FROM the regular armed forces. -- reserve militia. ALL persons who are not exempt from military service and not actively serving in the armed forces OR national guard. -- Black's Law Dictionary 8th Edition

*"Esp. by a state" is separated because the law does NOT REQUIRE it to be managed BY the state. HOWEVER, private militias MUST follow and abide by Constitutional Law.

ALL laws restricting firearms ARE unconstitutional and therefore unlawful, and thereby unenforceable... {Unconstitutional Official Acts -- 16 Am Jur 2d, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256}

False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature … laws not preventive but fearful of crimes.”
~Beccaria

"Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms ... THE RIGHT OF THE CITIZENS TO BEAR ARMS IS JUST ONE GUARANTEE AGAINST ARBITRARY GOVERNMENT, one more safeguard, against the tyranny which now appears remote in America BUT WHICH HISTORICALLY HAS PROVEN TO BE ALWAYS POSSIBLE." -- Hubert H. Humphrey Liberal Democratic Senator, 22 October 1959

"By calling attention to ‘a well regulated militia,’ ‘the security of the nation,’ and The RIGHT OF EACH CITIZEN ‘to keep and bear arms,’ our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy... The Second Amendment STILL remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships in which EVERY CITIZEN MUST BE READY TO PARTICIPATE IN THE DEFENSE OF HIS COUNTRY. For that reason I believe the Second Amendment will ALWAYS be important." -- John F. Kennedy

“There’s no question that weapons in the hands of the public have prevented acts of terror or stopped them.” -- Israeli Police Inspector General Shlomo Aharonisky

”These Sarah Brady types must be educated to understand that because we have an armed citizenry, that a dictatorship has not happened in America. These anti-gun fools are more dangerous to Liberty than street criminals or foreign spies.” -- Theodore Haas, Dachau Survivor

”One of the arguments that had been made against gun control was that an armed citizenry was the final bulwark against tyranny. My response had been that untrained, lightly-armed non-soldiers couldn’t prevail against a modern army. I had concluded that the qualitative difference in firepower was such that all of the previous rules of guerilla war no longer applied. Both Vietnam and Afghanistan demonstrated that wasn’t true. Repelling an armed invasion is not something that American citizens are likely to face, but the possibility of a despotic government coming to power is not wholly unthinkable. One of the sequelae of Vietnam was the rise of the Khmer Rouge and slaughter of perhaps a million Cambodian citizens. Those citizens, like the Jews in Germany or the Armenians in Turkey, were unarmed and thus utterly and completely defenseless against police and paramilitary. An armed minority was able to kill and terrorize unarmed victims with total impunity.” -- Paul Hagar

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -- George Santayana

Sorry little buddy, ANY GUN is not capable of firing 30+ bullets in less than 20 seconds!

Pathetic liberals. So very adamant about their incorrect information.

Do you have even the faintest clue what an "assault weapon" is? It's not a machine gun. They were banned long ago.

An assault weapon is just like any other weapon, except that it was designed for the military. It doesn't hold more ammo. It doesn't shoot faster. It's not more accurate. The AR-15 is a very good gun. But other than "looking cool", it's no different from most rifles around the country.

@ Sum Sucubus, your naive premise is only valid if one chooses to abide by the driving law requirements to get a drivers license or go to a reputable gun dealer to purchase a gun. I for one drove long before I held a license and I've had many of opportunities to by things that are illegal. Point being outlaws don't give a hoot about the morals behind the law or your safety.

Obama and company are stirring the pot of social insurrection; the Constitution is nothing to be trifled with. At the onset of a civil war would you rather be on the side of the Americans who own effective guns and believe their defending the Constitution or on the side of the government trying to eliminate them at the expense of the Constitution? God bless America and watch out for its government because I don't think that its by and for the people anymore!

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL-- You need to really learn what guns can and can not do.. I can put 30 rounds through my pistol in 30 seconds. Please do your homework before you spew....

haggisbigo-provide A LINK please,and fiestyredhead, are you REALLY from illinois,and if you are how are those LAWS working for you guys out there?REALLY. i find it amusing that the UNINFORMED are crying"more gun laws! ban this! ban that! john-Q public doesn't NEED those SCARY LOOKING GUNS or LARGE CAPACITY MAGAZINES! And you know this how? tell me why i don't need them,are you insecure? are you guys AFRAID? it must really suck to be you. I don't live in FEAR so i don't know. most gun crime is handguns so why are you guys demanding something be done about the above mentioned things? you really think lanza had that gun(AR15) in the school? first reported "cops find ar in lanzas' car". oh but now change that...he had it on him,yeah right(cops told the reporters it was IN the car).story change,IT'S GOT TO FIT THE AGENDA!

Obama is not coming for your guns. No one has said they will confiscate weapons. To claim otherwise is to exhibit a lack of comprehnsion and understanding.

Those of you quoting the Second Amendment are voicing your opinion. Good for you. You must know that there are other opinions that do not agree with yours. There are other interpretations of the Second Amendment that do not agree with yours.

Many of you reserve the right to protect yourselves. Fine. Others of us reserve the right to protect ourselves from the threat of armed citizens. That is our right as much as your defense is your right.

Many of you cite the need to defend yourself from the government. If you don't like the government, vote to change it or move somewhere else. Your chances of defending yourselves against the government arsenal you helped to build are non-existent.

If you are so intent on owning and using firearms, you certainly should not mind submitting to registration, background checks, restrictions on purchasing and the type of weapon you may own.

The president does NOT have the power to violate the Constitution, even with Executive Order... If he does, he CAN go to prison for doing so. No immunity. No protection. {Unconstitutional Official Acts -- 16 Am Jur 2d, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256}

”The danger (where there is any) from armed citizens, is only to the ‘government’, not to ’society’; and as long as they have nothing to revenge in the government (which they cannot have while it is in their own hands) there are many advantages in their being accustomed to the use of arms, and no possible disadvantage.” -- Joel Barlow

”I am thus far a Quaker, that I would gladly argue with all the world to lay aside the use of arms and settle matters by negotiation, but unless the whole will, the matter ends, and I take up my musket and thank Heaven He has put it in my power.” -- Thomas Pain

”Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined” -- Patrick Henry

R.I. Mom @ 1.148: If you think that Obama has any other agenda but to grasp the power to do anything he pleases singularly you are one of the brainwashed. He is on a mission to do just that and has already laid the groundwork to begin a transition to shift most of the powers of Congress to the WH. What he doesn't accomplish in this last four years his prececessors will be able to finish since he has already begun. A republican President in 2016 would merely slow down the process.

Are you old enough to remember the miniseries AMERIKA in 1987? Read this wikipedia accounting and pay attention to the bloodless takeover in the third sentence. Executive orders and proclamations is how he'll start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerika_(TV_miniseries)

Now go back and read the link I put on #1.126. Can't happen huh? We're in no danger, right?

Johntho say that Obama is one of the best presidents in his lifetime.

What are you, four years-old?

Awe Firstread. Where you can learn to be liberal sheep and goose step along with comrade obama. Let facts and statistics be damned.

@RI Mom Who's definition of "assault weapon" are you using? If you go by the book automatic weapons made after 1986 are already illegal to own and to get one made before 1986 you have to pay a $200 tax, pass a FBI background check (about 6 months), and register the firearm the the federal government. If you go by the false definition being spread around by the media all you are talking about are comfortand cosmetic features. Rails on my weapon just make it a little less work to mount a scope or flashlight and a collapsible stock is comfort thing so we don't have to get every stock for our guns custom made, same goes for a pistol grip. Also the cost of those automatic firearms made before 1986 are in the area of $20,000 for one in bad condition. A really nice Thompson can cost $70,000 at private sale.

There is nothing like taking advantage of a tragedy to push a political agenda. The hell with addressing the real issues................sorta like focusing on improving the economy. But if things don't go your way blame it on the party of "no". Rock on socialism.

Fiesty:

"Sorry little buddy, ANY GUN is not capable of firing 30+ bullets in less than 20 seconds"

Um, I can fire 30+ bullets (with two spare magazines within reach, of course) in less than 20 seconds. You are aware that most hand guns are semi-automatic, yes? I just have to pull the hammer back ONCE, and I can rapid fire the rest.

I can pop off ten bullets in about 5 seconds (less than that if I'm not aiming and just firing all crazy). I can change my magazine in about one second.

So, in theory, I could get 15 spare 10 round magazines, strap them on my belt and just go to town with my 9MM handgun. Really won't be a difference between that and an "assault weapon".

Those who use WORLD NET DAILY as their source

I'm talking to @!$%#_you

:The claim that following the gun ban Australia experienced big increases in
crime has been refuted as an urban legend at www.snopes.com, a website that is
devoted to exposing urban legends.

"Given this context, any claims based on
statistics (even accurate ones) which post a cause-and-effect relationship
between the gun buyback program and increased crime rates because 'criminals now
are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed' are automatically suspect, since the
average Australian citizen didn't own firearms even before the buyback."

More lies -the following is from "Britain, Australia top
U.S. in violent crime
Rates Down Under increase despite strict gun-control
measures
By Jon Dougherty© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com", and also uses the
International Crime Victim Survey data...

"...the International
Crime Victims Survey notes that overall crime victimization Down Under rose from
27.8 percent of the population in 1988, to 28.6 percent in 1991 to over 30
percent in 1999. Advocates of less gun control in the U.S. say the drop in gun
murder rates was more than offset by the overall victimization increase. Also,
they note that Australia leads the ICVS report in three of four categories --
burglary (3.9 percent of the population), violent crime (4.1 percent) and
overall victimization (about 31 percent). Australia is second to England in auto
theft (2.1 percent). In March 2000, WorldNetDaily reported that since
Australia's widespread gun ban, violent crime had increased in the country. WND
reported that, although lawmakers responsible for passing the ban promised a
safer country, the nation's crime statistics tell a different story:
Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent. Assaults are up 8.6
percent.
Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent. In the
Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent. In the 25
years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily. There
has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and assaults on the
elderly."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FACT: Australia's
homicide rate is lower than the homicide rate in the US and there has been
little variation in Australia's homicide rate since their gun buyback

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL, Johntho, chilled, Layton-3733410, Backhouse, Eric-913730, RedDevPS, haggisbingo-2225582, Sum Succubus, dscott15-3513026,

Politicians manipulate voters every day with half-truths -- or outright lies -- about taxes, spending and many other issues that directly affect the nation's prosperity.

Too many voters embrace feel-good propaganda that they want to hear instead of learning the basic facts about issues they care about. They should do a better job of calling out dishonest politicians -- and shunning media outlets that stoke political food fights.

http://money.msn.com/investing/11-things-wrong-with-congress

Your being Uneducated is showing and Worse than Suicide Bomb Vest Islamic Jihadists as defending President Obama Wrong or Right to your Deaths.

Jody, Iowa,

Go read the US Supreme Court Ruling pertaining to the Unconstitutional D.C. Anti Gun Law.

Eric-913730 - For the purposes of discussion, an assault rifle is a semi automatic weapon.

Proof of your being stup!d and uneducated Eric-913730. Proof you have no firsthand experience from being in the US Military.

Mr. Binkie - He had those yet chose the assault rifle. I wonder why?

According to the Police Reports the Bushmaster was found in his mother's car. He used pistols (handguns). see below:

kingsley-7641677 - Makes no logical sense - doesn't matter whether you are left or right minded. The story unfolded that he used "handguns", four of them, and left the AR15 in the trunk (why is this story changing?).

Makes a lot of sense to the anti gun nuts, the Assault Rifle got out of the trunk by it's self and started to shoot people (sarcasm).

RI Mom,

Educate yourself about President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts (Plural US Laws). Expanded Presidential Powers. US Military Use of Deadly Force Against US Citizens. Preemptive Detentions of US Citizens. Monitoring and Censorship of All US Communications. US Military Tribunals renamed by the Obama Administration to US Military Commissions (Legal Defense No Access to Witnesses nor Classified Evidence). (No) Material Support to Terrorist Organizations (including no Legal Representation as "Expert Advise", 2010 US Supreme Court Ruling, currently being fought by ACLU. Inclusion of the previously ruled Unconstitutional US Senate S.1959 and US House of Representatives H.R. 1955 aka the George Orwell Thought Crimes Laws in that the witnessed or written thought is the crime, not the actions.

Unlike after the 1990s Survey of the US Military (Majority of US Military would NOT Use Deadly Force Against US Citizens), we know the pecking order of who Summarily Executes whom for disobeying the Order to Use US Military Deadly Force Against US Citizens (Majority of US Military WILL Use Deadly Force Against US Citizens if Ordered). As Leverage, President Obama's Preemptive Detentions of US Citizens Indefinitely, our families, relatives, friends, etc. will be Preemptively Detained Indefinitely subject to "Extraordinary Interrogations", Blacklisted (Homeland Security), No Fly Listings (TSA), etc. as possible co-conspirators to our disobeying the Order as "Treason" (Traitors) of US Military Use of Deadly Force Against US Citizens.

President Obama shown during a staged newsmedia event, January 22, 2009 signing into US Laws his Patriot Acts, 04:38 minutes of 11:55 minutes:

Naomi Wolf: 'Obama can lock any US citizen up without trial'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLSeD19m3UE

President Obama's 2012 NDAA, Indefinite Detentions of US Citizens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IeuE16LLDY

Feds' electronic snooping of Americans up sharply, says ACLU

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/feds-electronic-snooping-americans-sharply-says-aclu-6170914

Uh huh, RI Mom, President Obama is not taking away any Constitutional Rights, YOU DUMBARSES gave them away with your Reelection "Mandate" (his Actions prior to 2013 were what you wanted). I warned all of you before that it would take a Lawyer (Lawyers by training and educated to win their arguments by any means including Errors of Omission aka LIES) of Constitutional Law to know how to circumvent the US Constitution (Bill of Rights, Amendments, etc.).

Those of us that fought against US Senate S.1959 and US House of Representatives H.R.1955 as Unconstitutional thought that they (US Congress, both Houses) would not try that again; but, they did and slipped those into President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts (Plural US Laws), example: The Definition straight from S.1959 and H.R.1955, "Anyone stating a radical change to (US) Government is a Homegrown Domestic Terrorist" as part of the George Orwell 1984 Thought Crimes Laws.

As far as the 2nd Amendment, the US Supreme Court based on Documented Historical Perspective Ruled the D.C. Anti Gun Laws Unconstitutional; as the Founding Fathers knew the difference between the Individuals (no Uniforms as Shopkeeps, Merchants, Fur Trappers, Hunters, Farmers, etc.) that as the "Minutemen" held off the British Regulars after the British Generals Cornwallis and Henry Clinton seized the Colonist's Militias Armories (Weapons) prior to the start of the "War of the Colonies" aka "American Revolution", with the Colonist's Militias (Uniforms aka predecessors to the National Guard) fleeing with the Founding Fathers to the "Hot Bed of the Revolution" from the British Regulars, British Bounty Hunters, British Loyalists, etc., until the Founding Fathers (stopped bickering) created the First Continental Army.

McCullough: We are raising children in America today who are by and large historically illiterate.

For all of you Anti Gun nuts that have never Served in the US Military (pull out your penis so I can cut it off, no gun for you):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kU0XCVey_U

RI Mom, FACT: Australia's homicide rate is lower than the homicide rate in the US and there has been little variation in Australia's homicide rate since their gun buyback

FACT: Numbers don't lie, Liars Lie. The Population of the US (314,686,189)is greater than Australia (22,719,430). How about looking at the City of D.C. or Chicago (Feisty's home) after their Anti Gun Laws (that did not work).

I don't want assault weapon availability either.

Too bad. I dont want 4 dollar a gallon gas but you commies are hell bent on pushing a failed green policy. Just like this gun issue. You refuse to evaluate the real problem and take the easy way out by targeting guns. The easy way does not necessarily equal the right way. IM tired of the road to hell being paved with your good intentions.

TheEternalRealist

Hal,

Reminds me of the healthcare bill. Pelosi saying "you have to pass it before you know what is in it". How is all of that working out for you. Heathcare insurance up an average of 25% for everyone. Taxes upon taxes kicking it that no one discussed previously. No thanks. I want to have a full discussion on this one before we pass ANYTHING!

Again, I repeat: I am neither for nor against at this point. You aren't doing a very good job of winning me over.

My words were "draft the bill" not "pass the bill" And you you absolutely must wait for them to draft the bill before you can know what's in it. A universe of difference. Please read and comprehend before replying. Thank you.

RI Mom - Since haggisboro can't answer, What gun laws would have stoped or slowed down the 5,000 illegal gun murders in Chicago, caused directly by Democratic policies? What did the Pander In Chief say today that would help his hometown? Oh, I got it, let Biden do it!

MOM where are you getting your facts about Australia? Here's what I find:

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

April 13, 2009

It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

• In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
• Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
• Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

• Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
• During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
• Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
• Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
• At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
• Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

While this doesn't prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Furthermore, this highlights the most important point: gun banners promote failed policy regardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them, says the Examiner.

imnotlost, #1.142- I stand by and with and behind my post. Let's see how many in Congress will do that when the time comes to STAND UP AND BE COUNTED (either way, Yea/Nay).

Thank you for the reply.

haggisbingo-2225582

Australian Gun BAN FACTS:

Ummmm, you've left out a couple of relevant facts A- Austraila BOUGHT any banned weapons, B- Australia has a population of 22 million with only 3% or 660,000 people who were affected by the law and buy back program.

The US has 311 million people with as many as half owning firearms. So if you are proposing we do what Australia did perhaps you'd care to elaborate on where we are supposed to come up with the money to buy back an estimated 300 million semi-auto firearms at a cost of between 500-1500 a piece on average.

A guber is someone who's not smart enough to actually think things through BEFORE he starts spouting nonsense and gibberish. Guess who that describes?

I stand with the left, and with Obama on this particular issue.

Common sense should tell you that when 20 little kids at an elementary school die, because a deranged young man got his hands on semi automatic weapons with high capacity clips, it's time to start thinking about ways MY inalienable right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness came long before your 2nd amendment right.

C.A. And you fascist are hell bent on mass murder. These types of weapons and their extended magazines are the problem. I wonder how you got so stupid.

Hello Feisty, you and pigotry must monitor the MSM blogs 24/7 to try and be the first comment. I have no problem with that, it shows a great deal of passion or something.

In any event, while I admire your dedication to your anti-gun lobby we must not forget this is a constitutional battle. Do you think Barry is going to expend his political capital gained in the election to fight the Supreme Court over a constitutional right?

I'll bet you and pigotry that perhaps there may be some movement on registering "assault rifles" but other then that it will all remain pretty much the same. It will all end up in the Supreme Court at the end of the day if it gets that far. You know the majority in the Ivory tower is a conservative lot, right? Besides, any anti-gun legislation won't pass the congress.

Obama's bigger worry right now is that the American Dollar as the reserve currency is fighting a losing battle around the world. The BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) nations and many others are easing out of the dollar, Japan and China are trading in their own currencies and India and Iran are bartering and trading in other forms of currencies. Why do you think we are in so many wars all the time. Countries that opt out of the dollar are being threatened or worse if they don't comply. Ask Libya and Iraq. Unfortunately for the US the countries aren't afraid of us anymore. Our nation is desperate, why do you think they are floating the 1Trillion Dollar coin idea. They are polling to see if their is enough sheeple to buy into this nonsense and lucky for us there aren't.

What this means is that in the not too distant future our Standard of living which has already dropped significantly, will drop even more dramatically. My point is that while the sheeple are divided and distracted our empire is collapsing right in front of our eyes and we will soon look like the rest of the European countries. Do you think the government wants an armed population when our debt bubble bursts and all bubbles burst? No, they want a subservient declawed, neutored population. It aint going to happen!

#1.67

Hear, hear!!!

Feisty -

I love reading your posts and assure you I am a full blown tree huggin' liberal. I even have my membership card. I know anthropogenic global warming is real, believe that natural resources are our biggest most important asset in this world and god did not give them to us to use up selfishly, believe the government has no right to tell a woman what to do with her body, believe that warrants to take someones body tissue is a horrid violation of rights, abhor the keystone pipeline, believe that fossil fuel is merely a means to an end and it must end soon, etc, etc...

However,

I am also a patriot. I cannot get on board with the idea that there should be limits on the right to bear "arms".

I first examine, what did the founders mean by the word "arms". In those times, if you didn't hunt, you didn't eat. "Arms" does not mean hunting tools. It means comparable weapons to a militia or army.

At that time, we as a country were concerned with invasion. We were also concerned with an oppressive government at home. This is the motivation and purpose of the 2nd amendment. It is intended as a safeguard against those 2 things.

We cannot give up this right. This does not mean that as long as we can duck hunt, then we have retained all that the amendment is suppose to guarantee us. This amendment is not for hunting.

This is where I will not only lose my liberal brethren, but also some conservatives. That right is not to be limited. Each and every citizen should be able to responsibly own the same weapons as our military. Mind you, some weapons may require special training, registration, inspection, loss of privacy even. But make no mistake, the "arms" are meant to be comparable to the "arms" of the government, otherwise, the spirit and meaning of that amendment is lost and wasted.

Like all freedom and aspects of it, the ability for U.S. citizens to exercise this right will come at a price. From time to time, some moron will likely do something to make people question this right. It is merely a price of freedom. We must not relent, or give in. However, we may want to do better at making sure crazy people are more limited.

We should not give in to fear just as we should not have given in to fear after 9/11 and passed the patriot act. Fear is the easiest way to get the people to hand over their rights. That is what is happening here.

It is disgusting and horrible, what happened to those children. The pragmatist and parent in me says there must be a limit, but I do not agree the limit should be related to what is allowed to be owned, but rather, who should own them. This is a fine line, and my ideology regarding privacy rights tells me it is bad to limit who should own these "arms", but pragmatism must be the underwriting driving force in any reform. It must also ensure the freedom intended in the 2nd amendment is not abridged in such a way as to alter the spirit and intent of that right.

Answer me this morons WTF do American citizens have hollowpoint ammo again when our military does not? WHY MORONS? It is so citizens can BETTER protect themselves. To more effectively KILL bad guys with. To stop them before they do harm to you. Guns are supposed to be effective and kill people...DUH. WTF is the purpose of a dull knife, a pair of scissors that do not cut, etc.?

How many rapes happen each year and why do so many women hate guns? How many rapes could be prevented if you simply armed yourselves? You should love something that makes you equal to a larger and stronger man, but you are morons that would rather bitch, moan, complain, and get raped then actually do something like defend yourself or to take the steps to put you on equal terms. Not like guns, mace, pepper spray, taser, etc. are hard to get... Thankfully not all women are as stupid and live in such a fantasy land (utopia).

Jerry Miculek with a 6 shot revolver shot 12 times hitting a target all in under 3 seconds AND reloaded once. So much for the theory that only semi-automatic rifles with 30 round mags can shoot that fast... Damn I mean damn there are some dumb people that know jack chit about guns, and should really STFU.

WTF changes the laws of physics simply because one person has a semi-automatic rifle? Do they suddenly gain a shield that stops all bullets from lesser guns? NO MORONS. One or two head shots with a "decent" handgun should put a hurting on anyone. Hard to have eyes in the back of your head and you can always be flanked or ambushed. A bulletproof vest does not cover your head, neck, or face. So to say that someone with a handgun cannot kill someone with a semi-automatic shows how little you really know and why you should STFU. Dipchit Obama will do whatever you morons want him to do, once again STFU about things you do not know.

@RI Mom "There hasn’t been a mass shooting since, and suicides, deaths by firearms and robberies at gunpoint have plummeted."

Really moron? Why are there still shootings, death by firearms, robberies at gunpoint moron? Why do criminals (who do not follow or care about the rules) still have guns? How do they get them? Why are the other crimes UP moron? Maybe they found OTHER tools carry out their desires with AND they know that their victims are easy unarmed targets that cannot fight back.

Gee I wonder why so many women are raped again? Nice easy targets that cannot fight back. Gee why did these mass shooters pick areas without guns? Nice easy targets that cannot fight back. Taking the guns from us good guys that respect women and laws is a BAD IDEA. Taking us for granted and treating us all like pieces of chit is a BAD IDEA.

Any time there is an opportunity to acquire something that has "value" someone will. We just went through this with rich people, why they lie, cheat, and steal. Criminals are the same. You will never take the evil out of people and really the best thing to do is limit how much they can get rewarded, not to just bend over an take it. People would rather steal, kill, rape, etc. then follow the rules and to work for a living. It is the other extreme of the equation, everything in moderation.

Obama must mean he's pursuing a premature end to his second term. This is one of multiple factors which lead me to believe that not only will someone attempt to assassinate Obama, but that they will be successful and it will occur before the end of 2015. Think of what else is out there: the fines under ObamaCare for not purchasing insurance. Rest assured, there will be plenty of individuals who will be impacted and/or angered by both the "meaningful ban" and the fines, and they're going to do something about it.

Back to this so-called "meaningful ban". I oppose any kind of ban on any model of firearm, period. What I am strongly in favor of, and believe should be mandated, starting in our schools, is firearms safety. Everyone should be required to receive proper training in firing, maintaining, and handling of handguns, rifles, and assault rifles. There should also be mandatory training on how to escape and survive a hostile shooter situation. Newtown is proof-positive that lockdown is a failure, and we need to train people to think and act differently from what the people earning a fat payday training people to become "fish in a barrel" are teaching them. I also oppose any ban on magazines beyond a certain capacity or restrictions on the number of magazines a person can purchase. Further, I do not believe in any restrictions on the amount of ammo one can purchase.

No ban is going to prevent even one criminal from getting his hands on whatever firepower he needs to do whatever he's going to do. What a ban will do is put a law abiding citizen at a severe firepower disadvantage should he ever be in a position where he has to protect his family, his business or his property. The principle is quite simple: he who has the most rounds at his disposal has the most opportunity to influence the outcome of the engagement; taking this ability to defend one's self away from law abiding citizens is the core of why I oppose any and all bans or restrictions.

Nor will bans effectively deter violent people with mental problems. If they're determined enough, they'll find a way to get a gun. If their mental talent and technical skill exceeds their mental problems, they won't waste their time with a gun. They'll graduate to bomb-building and booby traps. Regardless, any type of ban only serves to do one thing: leave people at the mercy of these types of people because no one right there when something happens is going to have the means at their disposal to stop it in its tracks.

If there's one underlying rule I live by it would be this: it's up to you to help yourself. When you're talking about being face to face with criminals or crazy people who would kill you at the drop of a hat, squatting like a bitch and waiting for someone to help you guarantees one thing, and one thing only: you ending up dead. It's why I oppose firearms bans or restrictions and believe firearms, along with survival training, should be mandatory.

The NRA are saying these weapons are a sport"Wow" People the bullets designed for this gun don't penetrate like a missile, they flip flop through air and tear a hole into the body.

Tired - why do you have a car that goes over 80mph when it is against the law just about everywhere to drive faster than 80mph.

Lusitania

The NRA are saying these weapons are a sport"Wow" People the bullets designed for this gun don't penetrate like a missile, they flip flop through air and tear a hole into the body.

ROTFLMAO!!! Can't decide if this is the funniest thing I've read on the Vine or the stupidest. It might just be both!

Suggested reading- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_ballistics

Lusitania

The NRA are saying these weapons are a sport"Wow" People the bullets designed for this gun don't penetrate like a missile, they flip flop through air and tear a hole into the body.

you have no idea what you are talking about. Plenty of people fire AR-15 (The one most people think of in this Ban conversation) at gun ranges all the time at paper targets and the funny thing is they leave a neat little hole and not a torn apart gash from a tumbling bullet. I would suppose, cause I don't have any stats on this, that most owners of these weapons are more interested in accuracy than ripping someone up at close range.

Most are using standard FMJ bullets although some may purchase hallow points.

They do Lusitania? What type of rounds are they?

Not much to say amid all the rancor and insults.

Just one thing that was never really reported about the Clackamas Town Center Mall shooting just before Connecticut. I wondered why there wasn't more carnage there until this was brought to my attention:

Have a good day to all. Just happy someone stood up the the shooter and prevented much more death.

Not sure why my link was deleted. Just search on "Clackamas Town Center shooting concealed carry private citizen". You will find a great story that saved a lot of lives.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Mr. President stop these nuts and their we need the assault weapons for sport!

Tired,

Since when are children, neighbors, family members, college students and people in Malls bad guys?

Again, government missing the bigger picture. Blame the gun laws on people being crazy, that's crazy. How about admitting that mental health is being totally ignored and that some people don't even need to be owning anything more dangerous than a spork? What's so hard about making people be evaluated as to their mental well being when gun shopping? Yea, that's not "News-flashy" enough for the mainstream.

Can any of you nincanpoops read??? If you'd distance yourselves from your Great Wizard Behind the Curtain, aka the NRA and other gunfanaticscarepromotinggroups, and actually LEARN about these policies and proposed policies..you might be surprised at how badly your panties are in a bunch for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON!

people who have a gun for protection, for hunting, for sportsmanship - they don't have anything to worry about," he said. "The issue here is not whether or not we believe in the Second Amendment. The issue is are there some sensible steps that we can take to make sure that somebody like the individual in Newtown can't walk into a school and gun down a bunch of children in a shockingly rapid fashion."

Famous your quote above is fine and I'd bet most people would agree. What we disagree on is the methods taken to try and solve this problem. Banning a particular type of gun or limiting the size of the clip does little to actually SOLVE the problem. And it potentially violates the constitution.

Whereas making background screenings better and going after the actual criminals and making punishments for violent crimes involving a weapon tougher might, and i said MIGHT, have more of an impact than what the left is proposing and doesn't violate the constitution.

@Feisty "Those weapons are designed for only ONE purpose and that is to KILL!"

Over the last 9 months alone. the Department of Homeland Security has purchased 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition. That's over five bullets for every man, woman and child in the US.

You were saying ... ?

Hello @tired, feisty, haggis, pigotry, RI Mom ,Why is Homeland Security purchasing 1.5 billion rounds of hollow point ammo. What do they need hollow point ammunition? Their charter isn't to police our country. Hollow Point Ammo is a violation of the Geneva convention.

Department of Homeland Security Purchases 1.2 Billion Rounds, Looking to Buy 200 Million More

9/20/12 | by S.H. Blannelberry

"Despite purchasing approximately 1.2 billion rounds over the past six months, the Department of Homeland Security is looking to acquire another 200 million rounds for the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency.

According to solicitations posted on the federal business opportunities network website, the government is looking to buy 200 million rounds of .223 , in addition to 176,000 rounds of .308 caliber, 168 grain hollow-point boat-tail (HPBT) and 25,000 rounds of blank .308.

News of this information has some within the blogosphere predicting that the government is preparing for a sustained period of civic unrest, an "all-out American Spring" as Israeli National News described it.

The U.S. government clearly sees the writing on the wall. What lays ahead for America is a day of unbearable reckoning. The debt bubble which will soon burst and the resultant financial collapse will wipe out savings accounts, pensions, investment funds and equities of the working class, all across the nation. Imagine bank accounts being reset to zero, "bank holidays" enforced at gunpoint. That will unleash a wave of violent protests, social chaos and even talk of revolution. The government will almost certainly respond with a declaration of Martial Law, the rolling out of highway checkpoints, and before long, the use of live ammo on unruly protesters. The desperation is evident in the Trillion Dollar Coin test balloon that was just released.

The Social Security Administration has also recently purchased a large quantity of hollow point bullets, potentially signaling that authorities fear welfare riots could occur if benefit payments cannot be made. The NOAA also recently purchased 46,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition.

This latest ammo order comes on the heels of one placed for 450 million rounds of .40 caliber hollow point ammo back in march (ATK, a supplier of aerospace and defense products, was awarded that contract) and a solicitation for 750 million rounds of ammo, including .357 magnum rounds, made in April".

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded." ~ Barack Obama, 2008 campaign

Why, why does Homeland Security need 1.5 billion rounds of hollow point ammunition? First the rifles then the handguns!

Sorry little buddy, ANY GUN is not capable of firing 30+ bullets in less than 20 seconds!

Gee, I was at the pistol range yesterday and fired 34 shots (two 17 round magazines) from my SR9c in 18 seconds. That time included one magazine change out.

You paranoid, tough talking gun nuts crack me up...

So easy for men like to to trash talk your threats from behind the anonymity of a keyboard to compensate for other areas of your *ahem* "shortcomings".

PS: A comment full of spelling errors, doesn't bolster your credibility, other than to confirm your 8th grade education!

Excellent example Feisty.

TrustVerify - Why hollow points? Because they are designed to increase in diameter once within the target animal, thus maximizing tissue damage, blood loss, and shock. I think it is becoming pretty clear what our government is planning for us.

As I am close to people in law enforcement and, they're out there, and I trust their word over your impotent judgment..

Look at it from the point of view that if the people get their assault weapons taken away then we will not have to pay to arm the police with such weapons right? they wont need those military surplus APC's with ramrods, helicopters M 16's M 60's M 79's Laws non of those high dollar toys they keep on hand for dealing with the public, if the citizens don't have such threatening weaponry then the police don't need such weaponry right, that will save us thousands and thousands of tax dollars right? and if its against the law then the drug cartels and criminals will have to surrender theirs too. and the crazy people will all have to go get some counseling so they won't be a bother everything is going to be great, yea it will be like 1962 versus 1862 or will that be the other way around? I wonder what Obama would look like with a Irish beard and a top hat.

What brand of a assault riffle did Charles Whitman use in the 1966 Texas bell tower shootings some refer to as the clock tower, what about the kid last week that was caught making a bomb to blow up a school, I am sorry but I think this good feeling law will only serve to make matters worse in the long run it will irritate people that up until its being implemented were not irritated or angry but now they will be pissed, and they will be paranoid of the government they will feel like they are being backed into a corner and that is something you do not want to do to free people. once they are all backed into a corner what do you think will happen, bloodwill flow are you ready for that? there is no happy ending, it is not wise or proper to punish millions of honest citizens because one or two did something wrong, regardless of how horrible the act of the one, all you are doing is making enemies of the millions, you people are causing divisions and we have to many divisions now, when a Nation divides to a certain point it turns to civil war do you want that? you are aware that when two sides go against each other that the outcome can and usually is disastrous, I cant expect a liberal to understand what might happen they reason differently, they are happy being sheep and depending on a government to care for themeven if the gov cant, that's OK its a false sense of security, conservatives think the opposite and when it comes down to it they are the ones that usually wind up protecting the sheep, as they are protecting their own.

what happens when the sheep (liberal sheep) and the Shepard turn on the Shepard's dogs? ( the conservative dogs ) and the dogs run away and stop caring for the sheep and the Shepard, and the wolves are all standing back in the bushes snickering, dumb sheep, dumb Shepard, happy wolves! do you think the dogs will return? why should they? they have been cast into the wilderness and are starting a new life without the troublesome demanding snotty attitude and name calling of the sheep and the constant bickering and abuse of the Shepard, let the wolves feast as long as they stay out of the woods and feed on the sheep. if either of them come into the woods sheep or wolfs deal with them accordingly. liberals are preoccupied with driving wedges between themselves and conservatives, I don't see any hope at all, and the liberals will not even try to see what is going on, they are to busy with their agendas. they take and they take and they take rarily giving any thing back. liberals will drive everything away from them and wither away, or push the issue into a confrontation, not a good picture either way you look at it, its a no win. they will never see it coming because they are so enlightened that they don't need to open their eyes.

Liberals are at a disadvantage when it comes to listening to the conservative view, conservatives speak freely and independently so a liberal cannot put together what a conservative is relating to, conservatives all have a slightly different outlook on the issue and see it from a personal perspective. liberals flock together and see things from their mentors point of view or collectivly would be their choice of words, every head turns at the same time and speed every finger points in the same direction at the same time, so what one thinks they all think, like a flock of birds compared to a pride of lions or a herd of Buffalo compared to a pack of wolves, one side hangs out together for safety and the other works together to survive, the problem with the human herd is those carnivorous sheep feed on everything, more like Piranha, they destroy everything then blame it on the conservative. and have you noticed its usually the liberal that snaps whats with that? by liberal admission all these shooters were intelligent people and conservatives are dumb fux ask Feisty!

HEY FISTY, REVDEV, RIMOM WHERE’S CHICAGO BEVY? WE MISSED YOU ALL ON THE CHICAGO MURDERS THREAD!

How come you didn’t join us there to defend your wonderful Liberal/Progressive murder capital of the USA?

I’m sure you guys have all kinds of convoluted excuses for why Barrack Husseins dysfunctional hometown has some of the strictest gun laws but still leads the world in murders every year.

We’re all excited to hear your bulls**t ideologies.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Let the "he ain't gonna take my guns" hysteria commence in 3...2...1...

Funny you would say that, as many of the posts I see here would fall under the category "take their guns away!" hysteria.

I will throw in my opinion, eventho I realise that this discussion is useless. The prejudiced perception of gun owners is simply incredible. Many posting here are so afraid of guns and gun owners, that their opinion of both is awfully distorted. In my State everyone over 21 can carry a gun, most people I know own guns, including what you would call "assault weapons", all of them are decent, law abiding citizens, they are teachers, engineers, truckers, doctors, firefighters, etc. If the Japanese (or others) tried something like they did during WW2 there would be plenty of people here in my State, including of course the military, who would be able to participate in the defense of our State.

People who are afraid of guns and/or gun owners don't want to know that Russia has gun laws that are more severe than ours but their murder rate is twice ours. They don't want to know that despite gun laws more severe than ours many cities in Canada have a murder rate that is higher then at least half our States, and higher then our overall murder rate. They don't want to know that in Mexico, while their gun laws are severe, the drug cartels still are armed to the teeth, with any kind of weapon they want. They don't want to know that it is our mental health system that needs to be revised, that in most cases an adult with mental issues who is a danger to himself and to others cannot be forcefully medicated or restrained, unless he/she has already committed a crime. They don't want to know that a few weeks ago, a little girl died, because despite the recommendation to remove the girl from her parent's home, the judge refused to do so. They are not aware of the thousands of cases of self-defense with guns every year, because the news media very rarely mention them. They don't want to know that a man like William Spengler was released from prison, eventho he had murdered his grandmother. They don't want to know that criminals will always find a way to get guns, bombs, and any other weapon.

They don't realise that the US government used to be the most amazing government in the history of the world (still is one of the best in the world), while the vast majority of governments cannot wait to disarm citizens as soon as they can, the US government wanted citizens to be able to defend themselves, on a private level, also against invaders, and even against their own government should they become a dictatorship. But they don't like that, they want more freedoms to be taken away, they want to be disarmed, they want to be defenseless. This discussion is not only about taking guns away (some of them for the moment), it is also about taking more and more freedoms and rights away from law abiding citizens, and sadly this not only under their noses, but with their full approval.

Personally, as I have mentioned before, I think it is our mental health system that needs to be revised, also our laws concerning murderers, in my opinion a criminal like William Spengler should have never been freed. In fact I believe in the death penalty for serial killers, mass murderers, and in cases of vicious and intentional murders (like the one Spengler committed when he murdered his grandmother with a hammer). I have realised recently that the man who murdered Robert F. Kennedy is still alive and enjoying life in prison, how messed up is that? that guy should have been terminated years ago, there was no doubt whatsoever that he was the murderer. These laws help the criminals rather then the victims.

Just remember this: there is a lot more good people then bad, a lot more law abiding citizens then criminals. Personally I prefer to see all the good guys armed, than only the criminals. Make no mistake the criminals will still be able to acquire guns, bombs, machetes, and any other weapon you can think of, and it is you, the honest citizen, who will be defenseless. And don't tell me that a guy with a machete is easier to stop, he's not, unless you have a gun of course. Especially women will be defenseless, and many men as well, because a violent criminal, even if not armed, can hurt you badly or kill you even with his fists. Wishful thinking will not save you, and when you call the police they will not get to your location within 10 seconds (unless you live right next to the police station of course), meanwhile you will be defenseless.

“Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.” - Joseph Stalin

Ah yes it is time to end the Unconstitutional "Executive Order" Privileged Once and for all because it has become a "Tool Of Tyranny"!

Demand Congress does its Job and quits Pontificating, The Supreme Court has already Ruled that if Congress wants to put an end to these Unconstitutional Power Grabs they can by Law! It is only by the grace of Congress that Bush and Obama have been "Dictating" to US!

We do not need more "Dictators" in America and if Obama wants to continue to try to be one it is time to strip the Power of Caesar from Obama and Futures President forever!

Just say NO to these Endless American Dictators and Yes to returning to a Nation Of Law!

The Constitution shall never be construed … to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. – Samuel Adams

C.A. And you fascist are hell bent on mass murder. These types of weapons and their extended magazines are the problem. I wonder how you got so stupid.

contrare mein Freund. its the fascists that want to take away guns and you have the nerve to call me stupid. saugen mein Sturmgewehr

Feisty Redbutt just can't seem to stop posting stupid comments. Kind of sounds like a Biden-type alcohol problem!

Get help Feisty, get into a program or something, but GET HELP !

note to leftist water carriers (including this Feisty Red dude) :

MORE murders are commited EACH YEAR with hammers and clubs than are commited with ALL types of rifles combined

hmmm...interesting

just going back to 2005 the statistics average around 450 murders by "rifle" and 650 for murder by "hammers and clubs"...you are about 33% more likely to get your head bashed in by a psyco than get shot with a psyco's rifle...ouch

better get to banning those assault hammers and assault clubs

Lusi,

you don't know my background. All you have is insults to offer. I never said tumbling bullets were not out on the streets. What I contest is that they are in the hands of law abiding citizens. You seem to lump any gun owner into the category of criminal. That anyone who owners a gun only intends killing with it and more specifically people. How do you come to such conclusions?

Sport shooting has been a round for a very long time. I'd guess for as long as guns have been around. And when I say sport I mean target shooting. Hunting has also been around for the same amount of time.

Yes guns can kill people when employed by bad/crazy people. So can just about anything. But when properly used and cared for by a sane responsible person they are no more dangerous than any other weapon or potential weapon.

So maybe tone down the insults and start dealing with the reality.

Lusitania

As I am close to people in law enforcement and, they're out there, and I trust their word over your impotent judgment..

John, And your source of documentation for your claim is?

Fern,

Feisty's comments sound a lot more intelligent than yours!

Caesar, Du bist ein dummer eisle!

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Let the "he ain't gonna take my guns" hysteria commence in 3...2...1...

There is absolutely NO reason for John Q. Public to own assault weapons... PERIOD!

Those weapons are designed for only ONE purpose and that is to KILL!

Sorry, wrong again Fiesty.... Business owners used them in the Los Angeles riots to protect themselves and their property. You are right about them designed to kill people. That is why you have one. For self defense of your home and property. The only thing, why is the president so hip on banning assault weapons! They had nothing to do with the murders in CONN.

"If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves." - Joseph Stalin

When Congress first took Presidential "Executive Orders" to the SCOTUS the Justices refused to hear the Case because as they said "Congress" had the power by Law to "put a stop to it". Congress did not have to allow the President to assume the "Power" it's just easier for them in some case so they've allowed this Unconstitutional and there by Illegal Procedure to continue!

So as with most "Bullies" that Congress just caved to avoid fighting the President for another day....That Day is NOW for each President since has become more and more a Dictator and less and less a President.

How many times has Obama said recently "I'll just go around Congress" when he didn't get his "way" in Congress? Now the President is Threatening US by Violating his Oath Of Office to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and attacking OUR Bill of Rights in the process!

To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them. – George Mason

The source for John is the FBI's statisic's that are public record. Look for yourself.

Job1

Second Amendment
"As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:"

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

There we have it. We need to have a "well regulated militia." So the NRA needs to get out of the way, in order that we can regulate the militia.

Job1, really, tell me that you dont know that "Well Regulated" mens well trained? Cmon man. You honestly think that we talked the same way nearly 300 years ago? "Well regulated means well trained. Its got nothing to do with the government having any control over the militia. ALL militias are under local control and cant be directed by any governmental agency.

Here are some interesting stats. These are from the FBI's site and are those for Justifiable Homicides that being (The killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen.) So it seems guns are saving citizens' lives as well. But for the left it's ok if those people were to have been killed as long as those out there willing to defend those that can't no longer have the means to do so.

Stupid funny impotent whats the difference, its getting deep in here so I'll leave with my waders on..

Don't want to make anyone cry.

Again Lusi only insults and no substance. That stuff you are wading through is coming from you.

Another interesting stat from the FBI. Based upon this the left is looking to regulate the wrong weapons.

An Assault Weapon Ban? Well its a good thing that there is NO SUCH THING... There is a Such thing as an Assault RIFLE, which would be what the US Military utilizes. You know, a Rifle that has a Selector Lever that switches the weapon from Single Shot (1 round fires with each pull of the trigger) to either 3 Round Burst (3 rounds fire with a single pull of the trigger) or Full Auto (The weapon fires until empty with a single pull of the trigger). A Semi-Automatic Rifle which fires ONLY 1 round per pull of the trigger IS NOT an assault weapon. People, PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELVES and stop falling into the garbage propaganda that the Anti-Gun Politicians (Not taking any side as far as Liberal Democrat or Conservative Republican because there are people on both sides that believe the Anti-Gun BS) spew out on the world trying to brain wash everyone. Please educate yourself as far as what a Assault Rifle is and a Simple Semi-Automatic Rifle is... A AR-15 is a Semi-Auto Rifle, NOT a Assault Rifle.

Well I guess they won't let you post links here. Sorry for that. But there are some really good and informative stats on murder (Justifiable and not) for recent years. Rifles as much less involved in murder than hand guns. But the focus seems to be on rifles. So it's poor uneducated laws we are trying to introduce.

Won't happen regardless

Wonder if this will work...

Murder

by State, Types of Weapons, 2010

State
Total murders¹
Total firearms
Handguns
Rifles
Shotguns
Firearms (type unknown)
Knives or cutting instruments
Other weapons
Hands, fists, feet, etc.²

Alabama
199
135
112
0
23
0
23
24
17

Alaska
31
19
3
5
1
10
4
4
4

Arizona
352
232
152
14
10
56
51
62
7

Arkansas
130
93
49
7
4
33
12
21
4

California
1,811
1,257
953
59
44
201
250
201
103

Colorado
117
65
34
0
4
27
20
21
11

Connecticut
131
97
72
0
1
24
20
8
6

Delaware
48
38
25
0
2
11
8
0
2

District of Columbia
131
99
32
0
0
67
20
7
5

Georgia
527
376
315
19
21
21
64
85
2

Hawaii
24
7
6
0
0
1
6
5
6

Idaho
21
12
12
0
0
0
4
2
3

Illinois³
453
364
355
3
1
5
30
43
16

Indiana
198
142
83
11
7
41
19
25
12

Iowa
38
21
9
1
4
7
4
9
4

Kansas
100
63
30
4
1
28
13
18
6

Kentucky
180
116
76
6
16
18
19
25
20

Louisiana
437
351
263
19
11
58
42
31
13

Maine
24
11
4
2
1
4
6
1
6

Maryland
424
293
272
3
12
6
59
53
19

Massachusetts
209
118
52
0
1
65
50
31
10

Michigan
558
413
239
25
14
135
43
71
31

Minnesota
91
53
43
2
8
0
14
16
8

Mississippi
165
120
98
3
12
7
21
19
5

Missouri
419
321
189
26
4
102
35
49
14

Montana
21
12
6
2
4
0
3
5
1

Nebraska
51
32
29
1
2
0
8
5
6

Nevada
158
84
57
5
6
16
22
34
18

New Hampshire
13
5
2
0
2
1
5
3
0

New Jersey
363
246
216
7
2
21
50
39
28

New Mexico
118
67
36
6
2
23
29
15
7

New York
860
517
135
6
12
364
173
148
22

North Carolina
445
286
188
21
25
52
56
72
31

North Dakota
9
4
3
0
1
0
0
4
1

Ohio
460
310
176
7
2
125
40
93
17

Oklahoma
188
111
86
8
7
10
24
32
21

Oregon
78
36
20
1
2
13
16
17
9

Pennsylvania
646
457
367
8
11
71
67
94
28

Rhode Island
29
16
2
1
1
12
5
6
2

South Carolina
280
207
136
8
7
56
22
34
17

South Dakota
14
8
3
0
1
4
2
4
0

Tennessee
356
219
146
12
11
50
35
83
19

Texas
1,246
805
581
34
48
142
202
130
109

Utah
52
22
16
0
1
5
7
12
11

Vermont
7
2
1
1
0
0
1
2
2

Virginia
369
250
137
9
12
92
47
50
22

Washington
151
93
73
4
2
14
24
22
12

West Virginia
55
27
16
0
4
7
11
9
8

Wisconsin
151
97
63
5
6
23
13
22
19

Wyoming
8
5
0
2
0
3
1
1
1

Virgin Islands
50
41
36
1
0
4
4
5
0

¹ Total number of murders for which supplemental homicide data were received.

² Pushed is included in hands, fists, feet, etc.

³ Limited supplemental homicide data were received.

clwyd-followed by numbers

ummm...F.B.I statistcs , the WWW is a pretty cool thing you can find lots of cool things to help you make up your own mind...

thanks Al Gore!

clwyd-2621393

Du bist Schwule.

its people like Fielden and Clyde above and Jethro, Fisty, REDDEVPOS, Jack Off in portsmouth, Davide Walker et al that would love to see the barcode tattooed on every registered gun owner before they're marched off to camp. And you have the nerve to call me/us the Reichwing. morons dont see the irony in their 'beliefs'. Sieg Heil!

Once upon a time I raised my right hand and took an oath to protect this country, with my lifes blood if necessary. As an American, and a Veteran, I took that oath seriously and will continue to until the day I die. The freedoms that we have been given, some have taken for granted. They have been protected, and have not had to pay any price, because others before them did it and many paid the ultimate price. The "right" scares me with their temper because of the "left" either not knowing, or not caring, to see and understand what the Right is trying to say, And with both sides not wanting to give, the division is only allowing the people both sides fear, to be the ultimate winner.

Redhead:

(Those weapons are designed for only ONE purpose and that is to KILL!)

Your comment is very brilliant. So what are the other guns designed for back rubs?

Less than 3% of murders are committed with rifles, of which a small percentage of those are assault rifles. So overall maybe a complete ban could reduce at the most a half percent of all the murders committed. BUT THESE MURDERS WERE COMMITTED WITH ILLEGAL GUNS ANYWAY SO OUR CURRENT LAWS SHOULD BE JUST AS EFFECTIVE AS A BAN IF THEY WERE ENFORCED.

Heir Obama has already made the decision to do the ban whether anyone agrees with him or not, especially since he is not running for reelection. Of course there is still impeachment.

One person in that school with a gun and the outcome would have been completely different. Just knowing that there are guns in schools would keep the fruit cakes from trying anything. Hey fruit loops: go into a bank and start shooting at people and see what happens.

I'm tired of the anti gun propaganda of our talking head media. Blah blah blah, but nothing real ever gets done about it except infringement on American's rights. And if the military invents a ray gun then the population should have access to them. It is not about hunting, it is about protecting our selves from another Hitler, heir Obama.

Lusitania:

The NRA are saying these weapons are a sport"Wow" People the bullets designed for this gun don't penetrate like a missile, they flip flop through air and tear a hole into the body.

As I am close to people in law enforcement and, they're out there, and I trust their word over your impotent judgment..

ROTFLMFAO! Lookin' to get torpedoed again, eh? Whatever cop is telling you that line of garbage is either a desk-jockey or just plain full of @!$%#. If a bullet is tumbling, it's not accurate. A tumbling bullet can be caused by either the bullet deflecting off an object in its path, such as a twig, or because of improper diameter for the bore of the barrel being used. Either way, it's worthless.

And then we got Feisty pushin' the ol' propaganda machine with a CBS "report"...

Lanza apparently sprayed two classrooms at the school with relentless fire from a semi-automatic assault rifle.

I've never seen a semi-auto "spray", let alone do so accurately. {propaganda for the ignorant.}

Skunks, on the other hand... That's a different story.

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years." "It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries." -- David Rockefeller, Speaking at the June, 1991 Bilderberger meeting in Baden, Germany (a meeting also attended by then-Governor Bill Clinton and by Dan Quayle)

"For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence the claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." -- David Rockefeller "Memoirs" (Page 405)

When I was a tyke, many moons ago, my grandfather talked about the CFR and the Table of 300, along with "several other groups and people". Many other people said those groups weren't real and made up by "conspiracy theorists". But as time wore on, these groups have come out of the woodwork showing that the "conspiracy" wasn't a theory at all.

"Assault Weapons".....how do you define it? Give me a clear definition. That is what any law would have to do.

I define that as fully automatic, machine gun style, weapon. Those are already banned and illegal for private use. Those are what our military us.

If he plans on banning all SEMI-auto weapons then that would be nearly everything produced today. Most guns today, handgun or rifle, are semi automatic. This is what drives me crazy about most posts. People do not know what they are talking about in terms of guns. I am not a gun owner, so I had to do some reading and research, but I like to have some facts before I spout off. If the ban is for all semi-auto weapons then it will never happen, ever, ever, ever. If the goal is to close the gun show loophole on background checks then I think that is doable. I saw Mayor Booker (Obama ally) on Meet the Press say that nearly all murders that occur in his city have occured with weapons that were acquired illegally....I believe he said all but one that they had tracked. He believes we must be pragmatic to which I would agree. And he nor I think that banning semi auto weapons is realistic. Just because a weapon can "look" like a military style weapon doesn't mean it works like a military style weapon....that is called marketing for all of you who also hate capitalism. People need to understand guns in order to understand how any law could possibly be written. I think nearly all posting, including myself, are not qualified and nor is Obama or Joe Biden for that matter.

And BTW, just the idea of such a policy has caused a gigantic surge in gun sales, so at this point all gun manufacturers would like to thank those on the left for creating such a demand. So, if fewer guns are the goal...if ain't workin'.

"My starting point is not to worry about the politics," Obama said. That has me wondering how he is going to do that? Of course politics play into it, as they are part of his political ideals and agenda and there will be political games played in the negotiations of whatever they do! Instead of using the word "politics" he should of used the word constitution in its place. Here is a quote from monticello.org, supposedly from Thomas Jefferson:

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

You might also want to look up the seven stages of democracy, attributed to Alexander Fraser Tytler and decide for yourself at what stage we are in currently, and how close we are to the end of our democracy,according to his writings. I can only hope that we do not need to have another fight against tyranny again in our country, but hope that we are able to fight for our freedom. Instead of hoping, like many other countries, that there will be a country that will come to our defense, and help us defend our freedoms.

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

• From bondage to spiritual faith;
• From spiritual faith to great courage;
• From courage to liberty;
• From liberty to abundance;
• From abundance to complacency;
• From complacency to apathy;
• From apathy to dependence;
• From dependence back into bondage. Just a brief synopsis of his writings...

Garbageman: Looks like we're about to hit the reset button....

I just hope Obama doesn't try to be a martyr by making an exist like Lincoln...

Whatever they come up with,I own a sema-auto rifle sinds after the Vietnam war ended,never harmed anybody with it so far but keep it handy just in case somebody is trying to get on my property and get in my house uninvited, I will never give this up , police protection will take at least an hour after a call, that's if they ever make it out that far to my place.

Spiddas,

Your comment could get one of your nut case gun sportsmen to do what you say! Shut it or I hope that your are cut off from this venue for good and forever! It certainly does not meet the agreement that you made when first commenting here and doesn't belong anywhere! You're advocating a John Wilkes Booth! Sicko NRA Nut!

Feisty Redhead,

You have had some off the wall comment every time Obama want to steal our right but on this issue you sound especially ignorant. Select fire, you just read that off of Wikipedia, I guess you missed the part that said the select fire rifles are made for our military not civilians. You must like being defenseless do you realize the gun law Dian Feinstein wants passed will phase out all guns in a few generations. Then the government can do as they please. I know they steal your rights as a US citizen under the headings “in the name of public safety” or “terrorism” those of us that have not fired our brains smoking dope know that this is how the disarm all of America. I have been hearing on the radio and around our town that if this ban goes into effect they fear that it will cause another civil war. A semi-automatic guns just means that every time you pull trigger the riffle or hand gun will send a round out. It is funny how it was reported at first that this gun was found in the trunk of his car. Tell me have you ever shot a gun? Well here is my point they said the hand guns were used and the rifle was found in the trunk. Then they say no a shotgun was in the trunk and he had two semi-auto hand guns and the rifle. The corner said that most of the rounds pulled out were from the pistols. I don’t see why someone would need three guns you cannot shoot all three at once, or for that matter two at once and be accurate unless you are in the movies. It is funny Obama will sell illegal firearms to Mexican drug cartels and you didn’t seem to have issue with that. Obama will be the destruction of America.

These Libs are so ignorant they think that because it looks like the automatic weapons in the movies it is. The AR 15 is a .223 round that has been used for shooting as long as I have been alive.

The reason we have a right to 30 round magazines is that we are law a biding citizens and that the 2nd Amendment provides us the right to bear arms so that we could protect ourselves from the government. So the thought that we would let the government we were warned about try and push more bans on firearms is ridicules. With the government now flying over 300 drones over every state it is probably a good idea we fight to protect this right. In the state of Washington the number beds for the mentally handicap went from 479 beds to just 14.1 this is a Lib state. Do you realize that most homicides are committed with a blunt object not a gun? I did not see you bleeding heart Libs donating all of your money or all but enough to live a comfortable life to help the issue. No you want us all to believe that the government is the way out of our problems; when they are the root cause. Your money could increase the number of beds again and get these crazy people off the street most of the mental hospitals would not close or would have more beds. That is where money needs to go to help the real handicapped people. I did not see all this going on when a border patrol officer died because of Obama and the FBI selling guns to the Mexican drug cartels as I remember you Libs said it was ok that they did not even have to explain what happened. You Libs say one thing as you are doing the same thing you are saying not to do.

I heard some Lib say the 2nd Amendment is out dated if we as American citizens think we could go up against the government we are crazy do the Rep know we have tanks, missiles and air craft we don't stand a chance against the USA's military, as I agree about that, his premise is just off the Military is the people of the USA and for them to turn weapons on women and children if more than half of the country wanted to throughout the government I say that 90% would desert as they all have family, children and friends in the USA. So no the second Amendment is not out dated that are just the propaganda that Obama is pushing and what kind of group are you Libs were you take this tragedy and try to use it to push your agenda forward.

The worst school massacre was in the 1920's with a bomb it killed 28 children and McVeigh kill 19 children with a bomb. It is weird to me once armed men go into these schools or anywhere this happens the gunman usually turns the weapon on himself. California has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation ask them how they are doing with violence even though you cannot have any weapon that shoots more than 10 rounds.

To buy a gun you go through a back ground check and even at the gun shows most of these guys don’t just sell to anyone as you are responsible for that gun. The Libs want guns restricted even more well let me ask you if you make it harder are charge more for a upstanding guy to buy a weapon that only leaves criminals with guns. My dad has always said that the police are not for your protection they are here to investigate crimes after they happen. Look Obama could flip out tomorrow for all we know I mean the man is on record in his own book talking about how eating dog was not so bad.

JUST BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THE GUNS IN MOVIES THAT SPRAY OUT BULLETS WITH ONLY ONE PULL OF THE TRIGGER DOES NOT MEAN IT IS.

Most gun owners will tell you there is only one situation that I can think of that you would need a fully automatic weapon one is to fire suppression in wars so your comrade can make a move and have a better chance of not getting shoot. It is a waste of ammunition to use a fully automatic gun. Your gun is much more accurate if you shoot one bullet with each pull of the trigger.

NOTE TO OBAMA: Instead of going after more companies to put people out of work maybe you could attend one or both of your daughters economics classes at the high school they go to so you can learn what it takes to run a government the right way instead of into the ground. Maybe we go after your falsified birth certificate that has been proven to be over lays of several different PDF documents. Why is it that most people born when you were born have a birth certificate that is no way consistence with any birth certificate numbers of the people that were born at the same hospital? Could you hatred of the oil industry stem from you step dad leaving your mother alone once again by taking a job with an oil producing company. Why is it that your illegal and undocumented Uncle gets arrested but is then released back into America where he is breaking a law? Obama the thing that bothers me most about you is you are the biggest liar there has ever been in the White House including President Bush. Start doing something for our country to get jobs moving and I don’t mean government jobs. Why don’t you tell China and every other country that sells good in America look if you want to sell your goods here then you will need to adopt the same stringent regulations that every American complain has to go through to sell good here in the USA. Then you tell China if you are caught selling counterfeit goods from American companies you and everyone in that companies management goes to prison for life. Or reinstate the Clintons welfare reform where you can only receive welfare for 5 years say starting in 2015 and every child you have after that the government will not pay for. Or how about we get rid of career politicians the system gets corrupt when the same person serves for 20 years they are no longer in touch with what is going on in their communities, no, put a four year limit on all politicians and once you have served you can never serve again nor can you just move to a different branch. You say you are for protecting the American school children but you made Kevin Jennings the Safe School Czar and he is a NAMBLA supporter. That is not protecting our kids as I see it. http://www.wnd.com/2009/10/111792/ you are a disgrace to the office of the presidency

Caesar, Du bist ein Schwein hunt, or as we say in Milwaukee Deutsch, Artzwunder!

An Executive Order disregarding[as I read his comment] the Constitution, in my mind is just an example of one man ruling our country! The only description I know of an individual that uses his powers to do that is a"Dictator"!

haggisbingo-2225582

• The facts on the BAN in Australia After Port Arthur Massacre(1996):
• NO Mass Murders since!!
• Suicides have plunged
• Accidental gun deaths have plunged
• Violent Crime plunged
• Mission Accomplished!
• YOU CAN"T ARGUE WITH FACTS!! (but I know the gubers will)

#1.49

Boy, you people are just stuck on stupid aren't you? or as Sam Elliot is quoted, "You're that 'special' kinda stupid aren't you?" Haggis, you wouldn't know a fact if it jumped up and bit you on the butt. And it looks like skyking and others have already shown you data to be mostly false.

OK, as of 2011 the population of Australia is about 22 million, with about 500K "indigenous" peoples. How about we carve out a section of American with an equal population;

.... there are four US states with a lower murder rate than England & Wales, namely Hawaii, Vermont, New Hampshire and Rhode Island, and an additional six which are lower than Scotland, those being Minnesota, Iowa, Utah, Maine, Oregon and Idaho, with Wisconsin, Washington and South Dakota not far behind.

So, it is certainly the case that the UK, taken as a whole, is less dangerous murder-wise, than the US, taken as a whole, but then this was always the case, including back in the days when guns were freely available and unrestricted (and, I might add, punishments for actual crimes, committed with or without a firearm were considerably more stringent than today). It is also noteworthy that some of the least dangerous US states are those with the least amount of gun control - but then y'all knew that, right? {libertarianhome,co,uk/2012/12/uk-murder-rate-higher- than-some-us-states/ ]

and let's factor in that our population isn't quite as homogenous as those countries (mostly in Europe or Japan) that you people quote statistics from. Since we have a high population of Africans and Latinos, shouldn't we include those countries as well? The top five countries listed by firearms related deaths are El Salvador, Jamaica, Honduras, Guatemala, and Swaziland.(the US is 10th, followed by other Central & South American and African countries, no doubt with stringent gun control laws)

Should we not take into account the number of homicides in this country perpetrated by those people and try to also keep guns out of their hands too? I mean if we are to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill with a propensity to commit murder, should we not do the same for those who share a propensity for murder or crime? (Please note this is the argument of a Devil's Advocate)

Also, many of you should note: The SCOTUS Ruled in 2008 and again in 2010 that the 2nd is an individual right and has nothing to do with a "Militia". OK, get over it.(as you all are so fond of saying after the ACA was passed)

And please learn the jargon:

Assault Rifle: a selective fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine.

Assault Weapon: A fictional devise. or Any semi automatic rifle that looks like military issue or scary.

The use of the term "assault weapon" is also highly controversial, as critics assert that the term is a media invention, or a term that is intended to cause confusion among the public by intentionally misleading the public to believe that assault weapons (as defined in legislation) are full automatic firearms when they are not. wikipedia

The 1994 FAWB codified the rifle type of assault weapon as a semiautomatic firearm with the ability to accept a detachable magazine and two or more of the following:

• a folding or telescoping stock
• a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon
• a bayonet mount
• a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor
• a grenade launcher

The one thing they left out was the cartridge size, that being intermediate, i.e. 5.56x45mm and 7.62x39mm.

Fortunately, my AR-15 which I use for hunting prairie dogs is chambered in .243 SSM which makes it neither an Assault Rifle (as it is semi auto only) nor is it an intermediate cartridge. So yea, there is a legitimate purpose for the AR-15, and there are many more, but you idiots wouldn't understand it. You all live in safe cities, and needn't worry about wild hogs, mt. lions, and bears oh my!

Any other time there is a controversy of this magnitude, the first thing you liberals want to do is have the government do a study, and get the 'facts'.

So why the rush to condemn firearms? Why not have the government do a study to find out just exactly how many lives are saved vs. how many are taken with firearms? Find out the circumstances surrounding those incidences? Maybe we need to find out just exactly who is doing the shooting and why.

Each side is quoting estimated data, from suspect sources. Maybe it is time to get to the real truth. Or is that what you are scared of? The data will show that while gun crime is extreme in this country, it would be worse if we implement more controls. Or it will show that all those liberal law suits of the 60's and 70's to protect the mentally ill's and prisoner's rights and the ensuing reform measures are causing much of the problem. You would then have to accept that your approach failed, is that why you all are not calling for more and accurate data?

This rush to control firearms tells me you are not interested in firearm safety at all.

Yes 20 children's lives were taken, but how do we know that 40 children's lives weren't spared because of the laws we already have?

Now think about this:

Doctors

(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.

(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.

(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171

Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health and Human Services.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Guns

(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is estimated at 80,000,000.

(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is about 1,500.

(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188

Statistics courtesy of FBI

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

Caesar,

I see it! The similarities in Voter Surpresion ( Hitler did it!), Unlimited funding for campaigns. ( Hitler got the German Surpeme Court to allow rich industrialists to do it for him!), Cut the taxes for the rich so they could control the wealth and direct it to him by lowering taxes) (Hitler did it and right now the top 5% control 45% of the wealth up from 43% last year and 40% two years ago). Flood the country with guns and militarism so it would be easier for control. (Hitler did it and we are flooded with weapons not for protection for assault!) End the 2nd Amendment for America's sake and the heck with Assault Weapons for sports. My step sister is dead because the nut living next door to her had concea and carry and came home drunk to the wrong house. He thought she was an intruder in her own house and shot her only 5 times. Sickos all of you gun nuts!

Fiesty red head

"John Q Public" might be relieved of his assault weapons but "Blow Your Head Off Criminals" will still have theirs.

Wise up DA.

More talk about curbing guns, nothing about curbing violence.

As long as Washington has tricked all of you into having the wrong debate, there will never be an effective solution.

John,

Look at the list of statistics above 9 state by state)and you will see that there isn't even a record kept of murders with hammers. Lies from the right again John!

I personally use an uzi with a flip quick change clip to go squirrel hunting....I really hope to hit one of those things one day.

I can unload 2000 rounds and never get close. Dam things never stop moving.

ANY ASSAULT GUN BAN SHOULD BE CONSIDERED UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

The only way any of the Amendments can be changed is through the amendment process. Unfortunately this is what the American peoples obtunded state for decades has allowed, our government criminally usurping our Rights.

The Second Amendment, as written, provides We The People with the Right to own ANY type of arms. This encompasses everything from a pea-shooter to an RPG and more. Yes, and more. The reason for the Second Amendment was NOT to allow us to shoot at targets or to shoot at deer. It protects our Right to shoot tyrants and criminals if threatened. Any restrictions can only come from the States and their individual Constitutions. Federalism demands this.

Imagine if the colonists were only allowed bow and arrows or a hand knife that had to be registered to use during the Revolution and the British had their guns and canons. We had the same weapons that the British had and were able to mount a resistance and subsequent victory to the British Despotism that was taking us over.

Yes, it’s unlikely we will need a RPG or tank, but in the event it becomes necessary we should be able to get it. Whether protecting ourselves from a Despotic government hell-bent on usurpation or a criminal thug trying to violate our Rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness (Property), IT IS OUR RIGHT!

We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions. ~ Ronald Reagan

Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves. ~ Ronald Reagan

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Ronald Reagan

The best part is most law enforcement wont enforce this law. They wont say that publically though.

People are crazy

"Assault Weapons".....how do you define it? Give me a clear definition. That is what any law would have to do.

I define that as fully automatic, machine gun style, weapon. Those are already banned and illegal for private use. Those are what our military us.

Umm, not quite. Just like the '94 FAWB, the '34 FCA allowed the current owners to keep their fully automatic weapons, i.e Thompsons, BARs, M2s, etc. One merely need to buy a $200 transfer stamp (tax) and pass a back ground check to obtain an automatic weapon and live in a state that allows it. The '34 FCA only prohibited the manufacture of new automatic weapons for sale to civilians. And here is a strange caveat, if I am associated with law enforcement, I can get one. I recently read a study(haven't been able to verify it though) that shows there is a lower incidence of crime with CCP holders than with police officers. Imagine that, cops committing crimes. That can't be right. I mean after all, don't all the liberals want only the police to have guns?

This is completely about the 2nd amendment. It is about our ability to protect ourselves from our government. It is about the government wanting to protect us from the guns that protect us from the government. The second amendment could not care less about our ability to hunt, it is about our ability to guarentee our freedom. So all the comunist liberals, move to Mexico, they don't have guns, you will be most happy there. Or go to Great Britain, their violent crime rate is 3 1/2 times greater than here, they have outlawed guns. So when you support Heir Furer Obummer you infringe on my rights, and I don't like that. My vote counts just as much as yours.

There is a cost associated with this. We send solders to foreign countries to die for it (which is just cool with everyone lol). There will be deaths here in America because of it. But it is so that we can protect ourselves. Just like when we get in a car, 1,200 people died today doing that. There is a cost associated with driving. But you think it is worth it. So now the question is "do you think your freedom is worth it?"

JimSpence: How's this for a public back up of the no limitations on arms. Last week Yahoo! ran a article the Old Arnold just bought himself a tank. How's them apples?!

Wait a minute! Didn't old mayor Bloomers just authorize surface-to-air missiles be set up on the tops a several buildings in NYC?! I wonder what he's expecting?!?

clwyd-2621393

how aboout this stat?

Juvenile gang killings 673 in 2010. Where's the outrage?

Paws93

I personally use an uzi with a flip quick change clip to go squirrel hunting....I really hope to hit one of those things one day.

I can unload 2000 rounds and never get close. Dam things never stop moving.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Just like in the Hollywood movies where the 25 "bad guys" with AK-47's, RPG's and hand grenades attack the 2 "good guys" who have 2 handguns with 7 bullets between them. After a 10 minute gunfight, explosion driven, mini-war all the bad guys are dead and the good guys suffered one small laceration, the infamous "flesh-wound".

I'm very sorry to say this but I think we armed guards for the tea movement, they are scary !

we "need" armed guards !

The only scary thing is liberal/communist/socialist/progressives who want to control every aspect of your life. We need a good old McCarthy and J. Edgar Hoover to take them out again.

Feisty always wants to be first to post anything. My guess it is a lesbian female on welfare in a wheel chair!

clwyd: Not too bright there, are ya?

You're advocating a John Wilkes Booth! Sicko NRA Nut!

1) I said I hope it does NOT happen. Even a fourth grader could read and understand that much. So there's no violation.

2) As I have posted numerous times, I have never been a member of the NRA, and have no plans on joining at this time. They may have some good training programs, but that's a different animal.

3) "Sicko NRA Nut"... I have 9 posts on this thread so far, and not one single violation. Only facts. You have 10 posts and made 2 violations, (1.220 - Caesar, Du bist ein dummer eisle! German for "You are a dumb ass!", Respect others; 1.241 - Sicko NRA Nut!, Respect others and/or Name calling.)

I'm sorry to hear about your step-sister and your family's situation. I can understand how that can affect everyone involved. Hopefully the sonofabitch is doing some hard time over it. But to take out your frustrations on an entire group because of one drunken @!$%#... That's just downright foolish. Do you have the same attitude regarding minorities? How about the disabled? Motorcyclists? Truckers? It would be no different. My prayers are with you in that regard, but there's no way on god's green Earth I'll change my stance.

FYI - I do not have anything in the lines of an AR or AK. They just don't interest me that much.

Top 10 Reasons to Support Gun Control.

NOT!!!

1. Washington DC’s low murder rate of 80.6 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Arlington, VA’s high murder rate of 1.6 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.

2. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994, are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.

3. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1791, refers to the National Guard, which was created by an act of Congress in 1903.

4. Private citizens shouldn’t have handguns, because they serve no military purpose, and private citizens shouldn’t have “assault rifles,” because they are military weapons.

5. The ready availability of guns today, with waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting, government forms, et cetera, is responsible for recent school shootings, compared to the lack of school shootings in the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s, which resulted from the availability of guns at hardware stores, surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, mail order, et cetera.

6. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.

7. Private citizens don’t need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them, even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.

8. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do “civilians” who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.

9. We don’t need guns against an oppressive government, because the Constitution has internal safeguards, but we should ban and seize all guns, thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments to that Constitution.

10. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.

{...as we hear in the distance all of the gun grabbers giving a good old Yosemite Sam "d'o-o-o-o-o-o-o-oh!!!"}

bad things do happen for that I am sorry, but worse things can happen for that I am frightened, remove the right (hand) of a individual and you can take him down with ease, if you allow him to keep his right he can be a challenge, its basic, no right hand, no wing man, no guard, easy pray, simple. in combat you remove the guard first then you strike, then you can go straight to the heart and its over. same thing applies with nations. if the libs are so sure that they are the brains then the conservatives must be the heart of the nation. The body can last for a while brain dead but take out the heart and its all over, that applies to politics as well, note the similarities Politics=pol=police=pol=policy=pol=politician=pol everything associated with pol should be accompanied with a ?.

I do not know of one firearm in this country that would harm anyone without the assistance of a person, not one, you people are on a witch hunt and after the wrong thing...its people that make the guns do bad things. what ever you people do do not count my firearms along with those guns, my firearms will never hurt anyone unless provoked.

By the way all these weapons that are referred to as assault weapons are not assault weapons they are only made to look like assault weapons none have full automatic capabilities, like the Police and military have, if stuff hits the fan I fear that civilians will disarm the police and then they will have full automatic weapons and maybe some of those killer bullets that the homeland security has been stocking up on, what the hell does home land security have to do with bullets? isn't there job just to molest people traveling or something like that? hell may as well arm the EPA while your at it. oh a assault weapon can fire 7 to 11 rounds a second, these so called assault gunsfire one shot each time the trigger is depressed, they started the story with a lie, and that red headed idiot from the state of confusion (Illinois) is off her/His rocker. feisty my asz how about infested with mad cow disease, sponge brain a pointless factless uninformed uneducated fool. but a well trained finger pointer, that is her life pointing fingers and hanging paper. like a good little socialist, not happy unless she is ruining someones day.

You forgot one Spiddas about the need for gun registration will cut down the number of guns the criminal has even though the courts have stated the criminals do not have to register their guns because it is self-incrimination.

to the ones talking about Australia's gun laws supposeably working. How about Great Britians gun laws that even included the beat cops. How is their crime doing? They are worse than we are.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

Oh those pesky facts huh Feisty? Check the reports again:

NO AR15 found on Lanza or on school property

4 handguns found in school of which Lanza killed himself with.

Coroner made an early statement about the type of gun used then retracted his statement later.

Handguns cause more damage to bodies if hydroshock ammunition was used at close range than AN 223/556 NATO

Oh those pesky fact checks...

Shall we review how magazine capacity doesn’t affect didley, yeah, lets.

It will be looked at as a time study, we who set manufacturing processes up do lots of these studies to accurately predict labor, material usages, predictions and savings.

Response times by the police range from 2 minutes at Aurora was due to them being lucky enough to be near, most times 10 to 12 minutes from first call.

Witnesses identified shots were fired at 9:30 am when announcements were being made.

The first call was 9:35:44 to police dispatch.

In Sandy Hook, the first police officer arrived on site at 9:38:38!

9:40:24 Last shots heard–Lanza killing himself!

9:44:29 1^st responder in the building identifies Vice Principal near the office (shot in foot)

Time line:

Adam Lanza tried to open a locked door, couldn’t, so he shot the glass out to gain entry upon which time the principal and school psychiatrist & vice principal came from the office and confronted Lanza who then killed two and wounded one. Total elapsed time, approximately 1 minute.

Then Lanza walked down the hallway to the 1st kinder-garden classroom about 20 ft away, max time to do so, 15 seconds, where he killed 1 teacher & 14 students.

Lanza then walked across the hall 25 ft away, max time 15 seconds.

Where upon he killed another teacher and 6 students.

Professional shooter can change a magazine in 1.4 seconds, someone familiar with the weapon, which Adam was, can do so in 3.0 seconds.

Since we know that he fired approx 79 rounds, using 30 round magazines, that is 2 magazine changes x 3.0 seconds = 6 seconds.

Cyclic rate for the semi-auto rifle/pistol is 60 rounds per minute so 1 shot for every pull of the trigger per second = 79 seconds.

Total times

Office killing 1min=60secs

Hallway walk to 1st room = 15 seconds

Hallway walk to 2nd room = 15 seconds

Shootings =79 seconds

Reloads = 6 seconds

175 seconds total = 2.917 minutes

Now if Lanza had been limited to 7 round magazines as antis claim would limit the ease of killing, at 3 seconds reloads, needs 12 magazines = 11 reloads x 3 seconds = 33 seconds.

That is an additional 27 seconds to the total = 3.367 minutes total.

Since the time from the first shooting to the time the police entered the building and approached the shooter was right at 8.5 minutes.

Then when the1st responder was working toward Lanza’s location he pulled a pistol and shot himself at 9:40:24am.

10 Minutes after Lanza began his attack he shot himself, explain again how the 10 round magazines would have made a difference when there was 12.333 minutes of spare time for the shooter to screw up and take his time?

Reality is, limiting a shooter to 10 round magazines doesn’t prevent jack schiite and you cant prove different!

Unfortunately for people who dont know anything about firearms, were the ban to occur, the idiot would

1) just go to the blackmarket as we see how ineffective that ban on illicit drugs is

2) use a 12 ga pump shotgun, 2 3/4" #2 shot w 50 .27 caliber balls at 1,300 fps (thats faster than most .22 rifle rounds and that has killed amny, many people).

A 12 ga fired at 20 yards (thats 60ft for you math illiterates) which is maximum size of any classroom, penetrates 4.5"-6" of ballistic gel.

You do know how deep such a .27 caliber ball would have to penetrate an adult to be fatal, 3" is all it would need to be able to pentrate a vital organ, much less if it was a head hit. A child is what, half the thickness of an adult body wise, yeah.

Dont forget that a shotgun shot dispersion in an open choke at 20 yrds is 3.5' to 4' in diamter meaning one only has to point and pull the triger, hitting more than one target at a time, just like Holmes did.See Lanza fired 79 rounds in that nearly 11 minutes he had to kill at will.

If Lanza had used a shotgun, he would have fired 79 rounds x 50 .27 caliber ball per round = 3,950 .27 caliber projectiles.

Man that sure makes killing easy and even weirder, you dont want to ban this weapon even though it is more effective and easier to use than a semi-auto rifle that only fired 79 rounds.

You antis should really learn about that which you are trying to ban, otherwise you just end up looking stupid, then again, that works for us!

The left on this issue are being authoritarians. They don't care about saving lives, they care about limiting rights.

If they cared about saving lives by shrinking gun murders they'd go after legalizing drugs since the Drug War is responsible for 40-70% of murders, including gun murders. Almost all of those deaths are preventable if you end the Drug War by expanding rights of adults. We KNOW this by looking at countries where legalization or any effort at decriminalization was tried. We also KNOW it based on our experience and stats from before, during, and after Prohibition of alcohol. It's not debatable that murder rate fell 40% in one year (1933), the year Prohibition on alcohol ended.

Instead the left is focused on new laws that will at most save 2% of lives from gun murder (unless, like the last gun ban, it is ineffectual).

So many lives can be saved by expanding rights and not attacking them...but this isn't about saving lives, it's about an agenda to take rights they hate.

Neither side, conservative orl iberal, wants to change what can really save lives...because they both fundamentally hate freedom, just on different issues. They look for any excuse to take rights, and this is just the left's turn.

Amazing how violent Australia really is, even their own government admits it!

PERSONAL CRIME

SUMMARY

It is estimated that in the 12 months prior to interview in 2010–11, of the 17.7 million people aged 15 years and over in Australia:

• 486,500 (2.7%) were victims of at least one physical assault
• 594,300 (3.4%) were victims of at least one threatened assault, including face-to-face and non face-to-face threatened assaults
• 77,400 (0.4%) were victims of at least one robbery
• 54,900 (0.3%) were victims of at least one sexual assault (people aged 18 years and over only). (Table 1)

Nationally, there were no significant changes in the selected personal crime victimisation rates for 2010–11 compared with 2009–10.

PERSONAL CRIME VICTIMISATION RATES

The percentage of victims who had the most recent incident of personal crime they experienced reported to police varied depending on the type of crime:

• 51% for physical assault
• 34% for face-to-face threatened assault
• 32% for non face-to-face threatened assault
• 60% for robbery
• 31% for sexual assault. (Table 1)

PHYSICAL ASSAULT
During the 12 months prior to interview, there were an estimated 1.5 million incidents of physical assault in Australia (Table 1). The victimisation rate for South Australia decreased significantly from 3.3% in 2009–10 to 2.4% in 2010–11 (Table 2). There were no other significant changes for the remaining states and territories.

PHYSICAL ASSAULT VICTIMISATION RATES, by state and territory

THREATENED ASSAULT
In the 12 months prior to interview, an estimated 2.4 million incidents of face-to-face threatened assault were experienced by 543,700 victims and approximately 1.0 million incidents of non face-to-face threatened assault were experienced by an estimated 170,700 victims. (Table 1)

CONTRIBUTION OF ALCOHOL OR ANY OTHER SUBSTANCE TO ASSAULT (PHYSICAL AND THREATENED)
The 2010–11 survey was the first time that victims of physical assault and face-to-face threatened assault were asked whether they believed alcohol or any other substance contributed to their most recent incident of assault (see Data Collection section of theExplanatory Notes for more information).

Nationally, 64% (278,000) of physical assault victims aged 18 years and over believed alcohol or any other substance contributed to their most recent incident (Table 7), while 57% (285,100) of face-to-face threatened assault victims believed the same (Table 8).

The majority of both male and female victims of physical assault believed that alcohol or any other substance contributed to their most recent incident (71% of males and 56% of females) (Table 7). This was also the case for face-to-face threatened assault, with 61% of male victims and 53% of female victims believing that alcohol or any other substance contributed (Table 8).

ROBBERY
During the 12 months prior to interview, there were an estimated 126,300 incidents of robbery. Both victimisation rates and reporting rates for robbery remained stable for 2010–11 compared with 2009–10, with no significant differences between these two periods both at a national and state and territory levels. (Table 1)

This page last updated 20 February 2012

Relee e,

Not as stupid as you sound!Ban all guns period!

Spiddas,

What I was saying is that your posts sounds like YOU are advocating something like that for our president!

OK Ignorant redheaded troll. You want to ban all assault weapons. You do know that if you are assaulted with a FORK then that is an assault weapon.

To ban all assault weapons we would have to ban baseball as baseball bats are the #1 assault weapon.

If I hit you with a spoon, then spoons would have to be banned as I assaulted you with one and now they are classified as assault weapon.

They already have a ban on those type of guns. those are the ones that can be switched from semi-automatic to fully automatic with the click of a switch. Yes I used them while I was in the USMC. I have a couple of .22 that holds 17 in one and 15 in the other, I can shoot all of them out of the guns in seconds, and hit what I am aiming at. 1 has a scope so I can hit the target from a longer distance, as for killing anything other than a couple of coons now and then when they get into my bird feeder at night. I only shoot targets with my grandchild, he is 6 he has been shooting for a couple years now, he like the one with the scope, he can put 5 in the target in a row, I do NOT let him shoot more than 5 at a time, he always puts on the safety after he shoots. Safety first is what HE has learned.

We see from the same Australian crime database that violent crime has its cycles, attributable to oh so many other factors, economic being one of the greatest variables affecting violent crime.

Yeah, horrible that Australia from 1996 to 2011 went from 312 murders to 244, a trend that had started long before their gun ban, but no proof that gun control was the reason for such a reduction. That is a 21.8% reduction in murders with strict gun control.

While in the US during the same time, 19,645 murders to 14,612, which is 14,612/19645 = 26.62% reduction

Uh dude, how is that possible, 25% more firearms since 1997, yet our murder rates are dropping faster than the Australians with strict gun control, yet again, no answer from the antis other than a lame diversionary tact.

Australia doesn’t have 1/7^th the number of firearms we do, so since you antis are into causality, they should have 1/7^th our murder rate due to there being no firearms in subjects hands.

2011 US murder rate 4.7 / 7= .671 murders per 100k people

2011 AUS murder rate 1.14 murders per 100k people, uh dude, they are nearly twice what they should be since you antis claim guns are the root cause of all violence eh, LOL!

But hey, going to Figure #26 in the Australian crime data we see how a 15% reduction in use of firearms is replaced by a 15% increase in use of knives. So explain again how replacing murders using firearms with knives has really reduced that there violence in Australia, ROTFLMFAO, uh yeah right.

Speaking of suicides, the numbers reflect successful suicides and say nothing about whether the numbers of attempts had decreased or increased.

US treated over 500,000 injuries due to suicide attempts 2010, doubt that ratio is much different in Australia.

One of the dirty little secrets anti gun extremists don’t want to publicly discuss is that suicide by a firearm is 90% efficient, or that suicide by other means is much less efficient, resulting in an exponentially higher number of damaged survivors as most of the other suicide methods are from oxygen deprivation causing brain damage as a rule, or a fall from high places which is messy and not guaranteed to finish the job, overdoses scrambling the noggin pretty good, should we go describing your preferences for ensuring more people survive their suicides by less effective means? Sad that increase in damaged survivors all resulting in states of physicality ranging from several months recovery to life time medical care required by their families and the state.

Yeah, sad how your moral compass is so warped that it is preferable to be reminded daily how you failed your family member and now they are vegetables, rather than mourning their loss and then getting on with your life.

Suicides are also a significant portion of elderly, illness, dementia, loss of a wife or husband of 60 years, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

"In a study of 146 adolescent friends of 26 adolescent suicide victims, teens living in single-parent families are not only more likely to commit suicide but also more likely to suffer from psychological disorders, when compared to teens living in intact families."

Source: David A. Brent, (et. al.) "Post-traumatic Stress Disorders in Peers of Adolescent Suicide Victims: Predisposing Factors and Phenomenology." Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry 34 (1995): 209-215.

"Fatherless children are at dramatically greater risk of suicide."

Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, National Center for Health Statistics, Survey on Child Health, Washington, D.C., 1993.

"Three out of four teenage suicides occur in households where a parent has been absent."

Source: Jean Beth Eshtain, "Family Matters: The Plight of America's Children." The Christian Century (July 1993): 14-21.

"A family structure index - a composite index based on the annual rate of children involved in divorce and the percentage of families with children present that are female-headed - is a strong predictor of suicide among young adult and adolescent white males."

Source: Patricia L. McCall and Kenneth C. Land, "Trends in White Male Adolescent, Young-Adult, and Elderly Suicide: Are There Common Underlying Structural Factors?" Social Science Research 23 (1994): 57-81

Yet you don’t cover any of this to prove in a concrete fashion these variables had not changed or no longer present an impact upon suicides. Then again, we are talking to a blinder wearing simpleton so why should we expect much else!

Suicides Australia

1994 2,258

1995 2,367

1996 2,393 /18.07 mil x 100,000 = 13.242 suicides per 100k people

1997 2,723

1998 2,683

2001 2,457

2002 2,320

2003 2,214

2004 2,098

2005 2,102

2006 2,118

2007 2,229/20.697 mil x 100, 000 = 10.77 suicides per 100k people

2008 2,341

2009 2,286

2010 2,361/21.2 mil x 100,000 = 11.14 suicides per 100k people

Uh thought suicides would stop when no firearms were available, hmmm.

US

1990 12.4

1991 12.2

1992 12.0

1993 12.1

1994 12.0

1995 11.9

1996 11.6

1997 11.4

1998 11.3

1999 10.7

2000 10.7

2001 10.8

2002 10.9

2003 10.8

2004 11.0

2005 11.0

2006 11.1

2007 11.5

2008 11.9

2009 11.8

2010 11.9

How is it, that a gun ban country like Australia has not dropped their suicide rates way below the US as they ban firearms eh?

You will note the number of suicides in the US is affected by the number of service people who have committed suicide has increased dramatically over the last 6 years.

Don’t forget that as the Baby boomer generation, the largest per capita size group of people ever in the US, reaches social security and retirement ages, that the number of elderly suicides attempted and completed will raise that rate also

Why is it that 4.5 mil firearms per year are bought in the US as per your uber gods the Brady Bunch, an increase of oh 1.8% a year over the last 14 years (25% increase), if firearms were indeed the root cause of suicides, there should have been a parallel increase in suicide rates. Uh dude, there isn’t, uh dude, thought you claimed firearms caused suicides as increasing the number of firearms as you infer should have raised the suicide rates by 25%, but geez, they did not.

All these other variables mentioned, you did not address, much less consider, nor the others which would require a 100 page summary report to add to this demonstration of your fantasy dreams that gun control was responsible when you have proven nothing. All you are doing is grasping at straws little boy.

Now go home and have your mommy change your depends diapers as you are full of schiite.

Shall we review how magazine capacity doesn’t affect didley, yeah, lets.

It will be looked at as a time study, we who set manufacturing processes up do lots of these studies to accurately predict labor, material usages, predictions and savings.

Response times by the police range from 2 minutes at Aurora was due to them being lucky enough to be near, most times 10 to 12 minutes from first call.

Witnesses identified shots were fired at 9:30 am when announcements were being made.

The first call was 9:35:44 to police dispatch.

In Sandy Hook, the first police officer arrived on site at 9:38:38!

9:40:24 Last shots heard–Lanza killing himself!

9:44:29 1^st responder in the building identifies Vice Principal near the office (shot in foot)

Time line:

Adam Lanza tried to open a locked door, couldn’t, so he shot the glass out to gain entry upon which time the principal and school psychiatrist & vice principal came from the office and confronted Lanza who then killed two and wounded one. Total elapsed time, approximately 1 minute.

Then Lanza walked down the hallway to the 1st kinder-garden classroom about 20 ft away, max time to do so, 15 seconds, where he killed 1 teacher & 14 students.

Lanza then walked across the hall 25 ft away, max time 15 seconds.

Where upon he killed another teacher and 6 students.

Professional shooter can change a magazine in 1.4 seconds, someone familiar with the weapon, which Adam was, can do so in 3.0 seconds.

Since we know that he fired approx 79 rounds, using 30 round magazines, that is 2 magazine changes x 3.0 seconds = 6 seconds.

Cyclic rate for the semi-auto rifle/pistol is 60 rounds per minute so 1 shot for every pull of the trigger per second = 79 seconds.

Total times

Office killing 1min=60secs

Hallway walk to 1st room = 15 seconds

Hallway walk to 2nd room = 15 seconds

Shootings =79 seconds

Reloads = 6 seconds

175 seconds total = 2.917 minutes

Now if Lanza had been limited to 10 round magazines as antis claim would limit the ease of killing, at 3 seconds reloads, needs 8 magazines = 7 reloads x 3 seconds = 21 seconds.

That is an additional 12 seconds to the total = 3.037 minutes total.

Since the time from the first shooting to the time the police entered the building and approached the shooter was right at 8.5 minutes.

Then when the1st responder was working toward Lanza’s location he pulled a pistol and shot himself at 9:40:24am.

10 Minutes after Lanza began his attack he shot himself, explain again how the 10 round magazines would have made a difference when there was 12.963 minutes of spare time for the shooter to screw up and take his time?

Reality is, limiting a shooter to 10 round magazines doesn’t prevent jack schiite and you cant prove different!

Unfortunately for people who dont know anything about firearms, were the ban to occur, the idiot would 1) just go to the blackmarket as we see how ineffective that ban on illicit drugs is 2) use a 12 ga pump shotgun, 2 3/4" #2 shot w 50 .27 caliber balls at 1,300 fps (thats faster than most .22 rifle rounds and that has killed amny, many people).

A 12 ga fired at 20 yards (thats 60ft for you math illiterates) which is maximum size of any classroom, penetrates 4.5"-6" of ballistic gel.

You do know how deep such a .27 caliber ball would have to penetrate an adult to be fatal, 3" is all it would need to be able to pentrate a vital organ, much less if it was a head hit. A child is what, half the thickness of an adult body wise, yeah.

Dont forget that a shotgun shot dispersion in an open choke at 20 yrds is 3.5' to 4' in diamter meaning one only has to point and pull the triger, hitting more than one target at a time, just like Holmes did.See Lanza fired 79 rounds in that nearly 11 minutes he had to kill at will.

If Lanza had used a shotgun, he would have fired 79 rounds x 50 .27 caliber ball per round = 3,950 .27 caliber projectiles.

Man that sure makes killing easy and even weirder, you dont want to ban this weapon even though it is more effective and easier to use than a semi-auto rifle that only fired 79 rounds.

You antis should really learn about that which you are trying to ban, otherwise you just end up looking stupid, then again, that works for us!

Your right, we should hold people and government accountable though.

Lets identify who exactly is responsible for the majority of that violence first.

The government acknowledges in USDOJ National Gang Threat Assessment 2011, see pg 14, chart #8 for that massive number of violent crimes committed in the US each year committed by gang members.

For several decades, studies have been conducted on crime and causalities by various bodies including major universities, criminologists and even the U.S. Department of Justice. These studies have found that approximately 80% of all crime is committed by 20% of all criminals. Some of the studies have provided slightly different numbers but all of them have found that a small group of criminals commit a vastly disproportionate number of crimes than their peers.(Wolfgang et al ., 1972; Petersilia et al ., 1978; Williams, 1979; Chaiken and Chaiken, 1982; Greenwood with Abrahamse, 1982, and Martin and Sherman,1986).

2.7 mil prisoners

1.4 mil active gang members

2.5-3.5 mil active criminals

1 mil plus open felony warrants

Hence add in the career criminals.

CDC -Suicidal people speak for them-selves as suicide is a felony.

Shall we review police studies in Chicago and NYC where between 76-80% of those involved in shootings, both shooter and injured were both involved in criminal activity at the time of the incident.

www.popcenter.org/problems/drive_by_shooting/PDFs/Block_and_Block_1993.pdf, www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_information/2007_firearms_discharge_report.pdf,

www.nyclu.org/files/nypd_firearms_report_102207.pdf