Clara ...

Capping off and shooting for Tuesday!

Carrie has a way with words . . . .

Happy Friday to you as well!

I doubt the meeting was productive, it is after all the bitch of Amendments, but Joe Is. Some will underestimate him, I expect that history will prove them wrong.

*waves to Clara*

I knew you would be all over it! LMAO ☺

Why doesn't this admin work on the crummy economy and help the homeless?

I'm all for sensible gun laws as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of Americans to own whatever gun('s) they want, as many as they want, and as much ammo as they feel they need, all at market prices not inflated by some gun/ammo tax designed to make them unaffordable.

I have no issues with background checks so long as they're effective at weeding out nuts and former felons who are not allowed to own firearms.

All that said, I have no, zero, none what-so-ever confidence in this administration enacting sensible gun laws. If Obamacare is any indication, this group will push for gun laws that are far over-reaching, and totally ineffective to boot. Typical of liberal knee-jerk, feel good, reactionary laws.

jw101

Why doesn't this admin work on the crummy economy and help the homeless?

Some of the homeless actually want to be there ... freedom from both Marxism and Capitalism.

It doesn't surprise me that there were differences of opinions.

The NRA's "slippery slope" arguments get old and tired. If you limit high capacity magazines, nobody is going to take away your gun. If we ban certain kinds of assault rifles then maybe some guns could be taken.

Regardless, the "no bargaining....no compromise" stuff from the Republican party and supporters is not what American's want.

jw..........

they were trying for the last 4 years but with all the republican obstructionist filibusters it is hard to pass any bills if they can't even be brought up for a vote.

The conclusion to this summit meeting was written before the people ever sat down at the table.

What a farce.

If any meeting every deserved to be open and above board to the view and scrutiny of the people of this country, this one should have been. Why was it behind closed doors?

Talking to the NRA about effective gun control is like talking to a fundamentalist Christian about evolution, or to a billionaire robber baron about progressive taxes. These RWNs equate their guns with their manhood - might as well convince them to be castrated. They still think in 18th century terms; not just about personal firearms, but in almost every respect: women's rights, religion, education, economics, climatology, and science in general. Troglodytes and Neanderthals who have yet to wake up into the present day.

or to many liberals about on-demand abortion, planned parenthood alone executed at the rate of 900 a day in calendar year 2012, defending it primarily as a health issue rather than as a lifestyle one.

The overall POLLS ....the same ones that gave President Obama the election.... indicate that the public is DISGUSTED with the NRA

Yep, that's why Obama is so scared of how the representatives of those people would vote on the issue that he's going to bypass Congress and do one of his Executive Orders on the subject.

how many gun laws has obama signed?

"Capping off" "silver bullet" "aiming for tuesday"

Pretty poor choice of words given the circumstances

had,

While your suggestion of armed police in schools sounds good on paper, it may not be practical. First, just where is a jurisdiction going to find that many new police? Just in the county where I live it would take thousands. Many schools due to size and layout would need numerous police even with doors that were locked at the start of classes. A lot of our schools have temporary classrooms detached from the main buildings and many of the high schools are huge in size exceeding 4000 students. Second, where do the funds come from to pay for all the new police and what does that do to local tax rates?

they should just arm all the janitors with ak's. thats what NEEDS to be done. wake up amercia!

billybob-6210632 - you are free to exercise your right to believe that abortion is "murder" but your right ends at my freedom to believe otherwise. I promise not to impose my atheism on you if you promise not to impose your medieval religion on the rest of us. Nobody will force you or your relatives to have abortions or use birth control. Overpopulate the planet all you want. But don't tell US how to live our lives, douchebag! As for gun fetishists, hopefully their stupidity will lead them to extinction, by their own guns or their moronic buddies' Bushmasters.

While your suggestion of armed police in schools sounds good on paper, it may not be practical. First, just where is a jurisdiction going to find that many new police?

Sure it is, when I was in High School we had armed school police. They were a branch of the local police department. Mostly they assisted the school hall monitors catching truant students. They also did searches when drugs or weapons were suspected. It really isnt all that crazy an idea.

Unless you have a magic force field that disables guns inside a specified perimiter the idea of a "gun free zone" is just wishful thinking.

If you limit high capacity magazines, nobody is going to take away your gun.

This one actually does make me a little nervous because, from what I have read, the government's idea of a "high capacity magazine" is a magazine that holds more than 10 bullets. This to me seems like a backdoor to banning, or forcing modification of many perfectly legal handguns.

For example I own a 9mm Ruger. The standard magazine that the gun comes with holds 17 rounds. That isn't an expanded magazine, it is the one that is designed specifically for that gun.

A friend of mine has a .45 Smith and Wesson, it comes standard with a 15 round magazine.

While a ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds might grandfather in weapons that have already been purchased, it would stand to reason that I would no longer be able to find the standard mag for my gun, the manufacturer would need to redesign the gun to conform with the new law and if I get caught with my legal, grandfathered in, 17 round gun I would need to somehow prove that I bought it before the ban.

A lot of people would be in this position as I do not know of many non-revolver, non-subcompact pistols that hold fewer than 11 rounds.

Sorry, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for gun fanatics who cry over some tiny restrictions and regulations that might be imposed on their precious "hobby." Thompson submachine guns were outlawed after the bootleg gangster era of the 1920's. The USA still exists notwithstanding that ban. I'd like my own nuclear-fueled rocket ship. Why can't I have one? Is the gov't oppressing me?

Red Wizard,

You may be the first pro gun person who actually posted an article that isn't derogatory nor inflammatory. Well said! (I abhor all the personal attacks) Personally I see your point, and actually agree, but here is the thing;

We do have a problem in this country, we need to do something. Semi automatic rifles and/or large capacity mags are the natural choice for non gun owners to want to pick on. By the way, I support the second amendment, and I love my guns as much as the next guy, I also do not follow any established political lines and/or parties. "Middle of the road progressive" I guess. I say this so i don't get called " your a filthy liberal" or whatever today's catch word is.

So, my point is, what can be done? how can we put non gun owners at ease and what can we do to stop the mass shootings? I see their point as well; No semi-automatics or large capacity mags... then no masses of dead people. Gun owners don't realize how frightened some people are of guns. I personally believe only shotguns and hunting rifles should be allowed within city limits. also handguns allowed to people who pass stringent safety courses and have means to secure these guns (for home protection etc). Sweden has a law where you have to have a safe for your guns. they come out and check! then issue you a license. Sweden boasts one of the lowest murder rates in the world! maybe we can learn something there? I don't know the answer either but if we do nothing .. things will get worse I fear.

There must be something we can all agree on. I personally do not think they will try and take all guns. But i do think if we, as gun owners, don't come forward and try to work with them to find a solution, then down the road they will come after all guns.. if we can get some real laws in place to help with the senseless shootings, then We All Benefit!

Here we are again

Thanks for the comments. I also dislike the personal attacks found on newsvine and find that those people only hurt themselves and their cause (whichever side they are on) by showing their ignorance.

Restrictions on weather or not you need to keep your gun in a safe depend on the state you live in. Most if not all states however, require that you secure your weapon to keep it out of the hands of minors and felons (people who can not legally own basically) In some states, if an unauthorized person, particularly a minor, gets ahold of your gun and hurts or kills themself or someone else the gun owner is also charged with a crime for failure to secure their weapons.

As far as what can be done, I don't think it is unreasonable for new gun owners to have to take a safety class and pass a test to obtain a license for each type of gun they want to own. And that would include assault rifles. If you want to own an AK-47, if your state allows it, then that is fine. But you should have to pass a mandatory training class. After all, when you go into the military they don't just stick an assualt rifle into your hands and send you on your way, you go through proper training overseen by a professional.

Whatever test, certification, license, class, registration or background check you come up with though, you have to remember that only law abiding citizens are going to follow those rules. A mass murderer is hardly going to care that, after committing mass murder, the DA might stack an unlawful weapon charge on top of that.

And as far as the government abolishing the 2nd amendment and taking all guns... that, especially given the nature of today's political arena, is pretty much impossible.

Amazing...... Ole Joe must have attended a different meeting.........

SECEDE from DC.......... time to TAKE our country back

Here we are again and Redwizard000 . . .

Thanks for your posts. I've enjoyed reading them and appreciate the civility presented with the facts.

Enjoy your weekends.

"NRA Meeting Was Productive" in that it demonstrated affirmatively that Obama has no interest in taking advice or information from the NRA... The New Dick-Tator in Charge will run this country into third world status with his 'Executive Orders' and other Constitutional circumventions....as he has plotted to do so since day 1 of his innauguration.

I agree. I would be all for mandatory training and safety class by a professional. And requiring to be stored in a safe or lock if not in use. Nancy Lanza was irresponsible and not kept the handguns, shotgun and ar15 in a safe. Expecially when she knew her kid was mentally unstable.

But to punish law biding citizens for the actions of the few? That is not the way to go. Look at the posts above. Many Antiguns just simply want complete bans not restrictions.

If they want to ban the 2nd ammendment then we should ban 1st ammendment.

Red,

Some of the guys here in Pennsylvania, Or "Pensyl-tucky" as its called by New Yorkers, have gun collections that would make Samuel Colt envious! Sadly our Guns are ending up in NY city, and also places like Camden NJ. (lovely area) I do not know how some of the local guys even got gun licenses. (shakes Head) wouldn't catch me out hunting with some of them! I lock mine up but i am the exception, not the rule, around here.

The laws are WAY too lax as far as the responsibility of keeping them secure. Guys leave them on the seat at the local Wawa, they get snatched up, and end up being used in a crime in Camden. meanwhile the gun gets reported stolen, and they go buy another one. I personally know 2 guys who have had theirs stolen during hunting season, and another guy had his whole collection stolen on a home robbery. Someone local knew he was away for the weekend and cleaned him out. they found one of the guns in Maryland, it had been used during a crime. There was an article out recently that talked about where are most of the guns in the NY/NJ area coming from. I forget the actual numbers but they say most of the illegal guns are coming in from states like mine.

Thank God that wasn't one used,,,whew.. but the point is this is where the government and NRA and everyone else should start. along wit the mental health screening.

Did you know a felon can get his gun rights restored? i thought impossible but .. a guy i ride with just had his restored this last hunting season. legally somehow. Wow! he seems like a good guy so...who am i to judge? They really need to do something about how guns are taken care of once people purchase them.. need to start somewhere though..

I don't know the answer sadly...

Go Joe! Doing nothing like the NRA wants is not an option. At the very least get rid of the outsized magazines.

Guns should be well regulated just like cars because in the wrong hands both kill people.

Ya gotta love sleepy Joe Biden, except that he's just 'a heartbeat away'!

have a "SCUM BAN" ,ban scumbags ,not a gun ban

pride and joy: Yes, he's a heartbeat away, but you gotta admit that it's a step in the right direction. After all, Obama is a diehard socialist. But, Biden is a diehard bumbling mouthpiece. Since Joe isn't a die-hard socialist, there is a CHANCE that he can do something right for the country. That's not the case with Obama.

Here we are again

I'm a gun owner too. I have suggested that responsible gun owners take the lead here and lock up their guns using trigger locks and guns safes. I realize that while my gun is legal, 90% of all gun crimes come from guns that are stolen. That means they came most likely from someones home.

I also understand that doing this will not stop guns from getting into the hands of those that would do the public harm, I know it would slow them down.

It's about solutions, not a pissing match about who thinks they are more right. So, extremists please don't respond unless you have a solution.....Think....be rational.....then write something worthy of putting your name to.

Gonna pipe in here as a gun store owner... red, unfortunately I can tell you right now that their are 10 round magazines made for every major handgun manufactured. Being in California we are restricted to 10 and I carry Springfield, S&W, Beretta, Glock and Ruger. We also require locks and /or safe affidavit's signed with every purchase of a firearm, be it for handgun or long gun. This goes all the way to a stripped lower receiver.

I know who are buying guns in my store and I can tell you we definitely do it legally. I have no issue with every person who wants to buy a gun being subjected to a background check... Handguns also require a special handgun safety card obtained only from a dealer with an instructor certification number not to mention a hands on test at close out after they pass the 10 waiting period. Californians already jump through fiery hoops to obtain the firearms we are 'allowed' to have... Very limited in the case of handguns considering there is a list of 'safe' handguns here. If its not on that list, you cannot buy it. If the worst thing that happens is that you end up like California, we should consider ourselves lucky. D I agree with the regulations? No, but I respect the law and so do my customers,

I read some of these posts from the pro gun folks and I feel some optimism. Then I read the posts from people like witchrunner and Mark S and my heart sinks. They are not the kind of people who should even be allowed to own guns. They are not responsible or rational. They are fanatics. Guns in the hands of fanatics are a recipe for disaster. Here We Go Again expresses many of the concerns that I have expressed. Just because the guy that buys the gun appears to meet the qualifications doesn't mean that he will properly secure his weapon. It doesn't mean that his guns will not end up in the hands of criminals. Just where do people think the criminals get their guns? They buy them illegally from the burglar who stole them from the guy who didn't have them properly secured. It isn't that difficult to figure it out. They aren't buying them from gun dealers. They're getting them from licensed gun owners.

So when we keep putting more and more guns on the streets, we are putting more and more guns in the hands of criminals and maniacs. This is one of the big problems we need to address. This is what the NRA ignores.

The sheep of this country have been following the Judas goat for years. They just keep giving up more and more rights all the time. They'll soon have you right where they want you.

fascisthater,

You're dilluded if you think abortion is not murder. for example, the children in newtown were not able to develop into adults. fetuses or zygotes(whatever you want to call them) are not allowed to develop into children and eventually adults. the method used to terminate thier life maybe diffrent but the end result is the same DEATH. See how simple it really is?... i bet you've had an abortion or 2 & feel the need to tell yourself that it wasnt human. Maybe you're the one who should have been aborted Pfft. btw notice theres no mention of any god in my post because this isnt about god this is about being a decent reasonable human being of which you are NOT.

Sorry Underemployed, criminals get guns from other criminals or by committing criminal acts against law abiding gun owners. We Californians don't give them away, they are too hard to come by here with our laws and restrictions, you will never stop this although a safe will make if more difficult for that criminal to engage in the theft you describe.

Unfortunately there are simply way too many criminals being allowed to commit crimes with very lenient sentence in the event they get caught. Taking/limiting/ regulating will only effect the law abiding... No matter what, the not so law abiding are going to get them. It is within my 2nd amendment rights to keep and bear arms... To protect myself and my children/love ones from tyranny or crime.

That all being said.... I stand by my previous comments. Background check everyone, impose at least the guise of handgun safety in the form of both written and hands on tests like we have here, require a safe or lock, not that we can force ppl to use them once they leave the store. We can only hope that they do... And that they understand by not doing so, they are breaking the law.

Is it 'fair'? No, but it's a decent compromise considering that they want to do.

If the Feds cannot ban assault weapons, each state could enact their own laws banning them and high capacity magazines from the woods. It seems to work with shotguns - most pump actions must have a stick inside to limit capacity. This would just leave present assault weapon owners stuck with blasting away at their local (licensed) rifle range. They'll quickly tire of emptying a drum magazine and may even discover that at 500 metres it is hard to hit even a barn door with mass produced .223 cal. M16 ammunition.

When will you gun nuts understand that taking weapons of war that have no other purpose then to kill as many people as possible in as quick a time as possible is not taking "your" guns away. These weapons and their extended mag. have no place in a civilized society. This isn't an assault on the second, it is common sense, something I fear gun nuts don't have. Most should be on the list to never be allowed to own a gun.

Gonna pipe in here as a gun store owner... red, unfortunately I can tell you right now that their are 10 round magazines made for every major handgun manufactured.a

Really? I did not know that. I have a Ruger SR9 and every time I have bought new magazines for it the only one that is available at our local gun stores (I live in Nevada) are the 17 round mags that the gun comes with.

Very limited in the case of handguns considering there is a list of 'safe' handguns here. If its not on that list, you cannot buy it.

Also interesting. What exactly constitutes a "safe" handgun? By that I mean, what makes one handgun "safe" and another "unsafe"? Does it have to do with size and caliber?

You mentioned a 10 day waiting period? Wow... in NV it is 3 days and that is only for your first handgun. After you get one gun you can just show your blue registration card and you don't have to wait for your next gun. I am not sure why it takes so long, the background checks are supposed to be "instant".

I lived in CA a long time ago when I was a kid and I was very very happy to get away. (no offense intended)

The laws are WAY too lax as far as the responsibility of keeping them secure. Guys leave them on the seat at the local Wawa, they get snatched up...

Yeah I can't dissagree with you there. If someone breaks into your car, store or home and bypasses whatever reasonable security you put in place to protect your weapons it is one thing, but simply leaving a gun exposed and unsecure in a public place is simply irresponsible. When such a person reports the theft there should be some legal concequence. It's not only criminals you have to worry about, what happens when a child comes along and starts playing around with the gun you left on a seat while you werent paying attention?

Is it 'fair'? No, but it's a decent compromise considering that they want to do.

The keywords here are "fair" and "compromise". They are words you rarely hear from either pro or anti gun extremists. There is certainly a middle ground here that is both fair and a compromise but good luck getting anyone in a position of power to compromise with whatever the other side is these days. Democrats hate republicans, therefore any republican idea is automatically dismissed as bad. Republicans hate democrats, therefore any democrats idea is automatically dismissed as bad. No one wants to compromise. Meanwhile the American people are caught in the middle and we wind up paying the cost for their childish bickering.

For those who think nobody should have a firearm for protection, consider this story – If she didn't have a gun for protection, we can only shudder at what the stalker might have done to her and her two children;

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/10/16449815-911-tape-shoot-him-again-husband-tells-wife-hiding-from-home-intruder?lite&lite=obnetwork

Redwizard000 "The keywords here are "fair" and "compromise"."

That's true in virtually all political discussions, but unfortunately, they are meaningless if each side claims "My way is fair and compromising, but yours is not".

A prime example is the recent discussions on tax increases - There were huge tax increases on virtually everyone (smaller paychecks, anyone?), but especially on the 'rich'.

But there were NO SPENDING CUTS. What was 'fair and compromising' about that?

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas." - Joseph Stalin

America.....Forget the Corporate NRA....Support the Gun Owners of America and the Oath Keepers instead for they are the real "Uncompromising" defenders of the Second Amendemt!

And let US continue to Shout Down and Drive Past these Anti American Malcontents and Wannabee Corporate Tyrants!

They merely have Opinions yet they once again demand we "Compromise" Our Rights? Write your Congress Men and Women and Demand that Not Only do they Refuse To Even Consider betraying their Oath Of Office but just like after Katrina they Reaffirm The Support for Our Right to Bear Arms Remains UN Infringed!

No matter what these History Revisionist and Counter Revolutionary want to claim next....We've already fought one war over Our "Rights" let these "Traitors" To Our Constitution not start another one in America! If they do not like Our Constitution let them go elsewhere for there are so many Countries out there without Our "Bill of Rights"!

Why should we the many, surrender to they the few?

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." – Alexander Hamilton,

The rightwing "gateway" fallacious arguments have to go.

Aside from reading and comprehension problems (though I know most rightwingers have never actually read the Constitution and 2nd Amendment, rather they just parrot squawking points), the irrational FEAR of tyranny is blinding rightwingers from understanding commonsense background checks and standardized simplification of how arms are sold. The FEAR of what might happen, and only what might happen if one is delusional, prevents these ignoramuses from addressing the HERE and NOW with the Rule of Reason.

But at the most basic level, these rightwing idiots have NO understanding of the constitution to begin with. This is what is most sad and disturbing -- To realize the pitiful state of things in this nation.

MUW -- A great example (as well as offensive) of believing that the NRA pro-gun manufacturing crap is a majority sentiment in this country. WTF, where do you get your information? The majority of Americans, including gun owners like myself (and the Giffords, etc.) are NOT in agreement with people like you.

Go and READ the 2nd Ammendment, about responsible gun ownership, about militias to protect the government. The Founding Fathers did not write the Constitution with it in mind to overthrow the very checks and balances they put in place!

Here we are again, Redwizard000, Steve -- and a couple of others.

First, let me start out by saying I appreciate the calm and respectful presentations of your points and opinions. Yes, we may not always agree on everything, but if we cannot at least have a respectful discussion, we will get nowhere. Hmmm ... that's exactly where we are now.

The reality of the situation is thus ... we have a gun violence problem in this country. Whatever position you hold on gun control, there is pretty much an agreement on this point. Entirely too many people are killed each and every day by guns ... whether it's an accidental shooting or a mass murder.

So what do we do about it? Well, we're obviously not going to take alway all the guns. First, it's impossible. There are countless millions of them in circulation. What we need to do is come up with ways of keeping them, and the ammunition, away from the mentally ill and the criminals.

Here are some (respectfully submitted) ideas. I'm happy to hear counterpoints, expansions, etc. and will respond if they are given in a respectful manner.

First and foremost, we need to make all gun owners responsible for the guns they own. That's reasonable. A gun owner should prove they know how to use the weapon and they have the means of keeping it secure. Afterall, don't we require that of a car owner? This would mean, if a weapon is lost or stolen it must be immediately (within 24 hours) reported. If it is not, and it is used in a crime, then the owner is at least partially liable and faces jail time. The same with an unsecured gun. If it is involved in a shooting accident, the owner faces jail time.

No criminal should be allowed to possess a gun. With the exception of "citation" type crimes (i.e. traffic tickets), if you do a crime, you are ineligible to own a gun. If it is a non-violent misdeameanour, consider a short-term ban. Any gun found in the possession of a criminal (or someone deemed ineligible due to mental incapacity) is destroyed. Any guns found at crime scenes are destroyed. (An exception should be considered for historical artifacts, which would be offered to museums.) Finally, while I believe this is the case in MOST jurisdictions, I'm not sure about all, any person using a gun to commit a crime is automatically sentenced to an extra term (and no parole allowed for that portion of the sentence).

Do not allow internet sale or mail order sale of weapons and ammunition directly to a personal address. They must be ordered and sent to an authorized gun dealer or law enforcement agency for pick up in order to insure approproate background checks have been completed.

Strengthen mental health laws so that background checks can identify potentially violent offenders due to mental illness. Those who receive a "hit" would be allowed to have court certified psychological screenings to be removed from the list. Make it easier to provide and impose mental health care.

Make it more difficult for young children and pre-teens to access violent, interactive video games. While I don't believe TV shows and movies have that strong an effect, the interaction does -- especially on developing brains.

Anyone have other ideas?

“Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority. Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew’s possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation. Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions will be punished with imprisonment and a fine.” - Nazi Law (Regulations Against Jews’ Possession of Weapons), 1938

Folks.....At least 200 children died from Defective Corporate Products within 24 hours of Newtown shooting and yet no Corporate Media Outlet has taken up the cry to "Protect Our Children" from those Corporations and their Defective Products now have they?

Please keep the truth in perspective...All of the False Consensus building in Corporate Media is nothing more than just another of their endless attempts of Disarming the Peasant Peons and Slaves for Wall Street Oligarchs and their Political Minions and NOTHING else!

“Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property… Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.” –Thomas Paine

Defective products PULEEZE -- Even a comedy program like the Daily Show can easily point out the silliness of such arguments like Jesse Ventura's BS about how automobiles don't kill people. Holy cow people, (though automobiles have been made safer) look at how we have cracked down on driving under the influence (DUIs) and the rapid drop in fatalities from automobiles being driven by irresponsible people. We need background checks, and people don't need to go bucknutty and buy what ever weaponry they want in order to preserve freedoms per the Constitution.

Getting back to the automobile analogy, Beth makes a good point about requirements to own a gun, which are currently very lax compared to owning an automobile. The big difference is a gun is intended to be a lethal weapon, and yet?

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." – George Washington

To the Anti Gun Nuts you and your kind of UN American Posters are the "Ones" trying to change US by subverting and perverting OUR BILL OF RIGHTS...Remember? So please if you do not love America as it is, by all means necessary...Get Gone...Get Gone Now!

Otherwise once again the SCOTUS has already stated "They" Rule Merely at the Whim of the Governed and your Opinions or even their "Opinions DOES NOT and DO NOT remove or even equal Our Rights!

If you Corporate Fascists want to repeal the Second Amendment stop fantasizing about starting your very own "Civil War" and repeal it LEGALLY through Congress and the State Legislatures and then by the Majority Vote of the People in an Honest and Fair election!

No other method be it Unconstitutional Executive Order, UN Treaty Unlawful Law or by Redefinition or Reinterpretation can change the Constitution of the United States.

Anyone attempting to is subject to the Severe Scorn of American People with the subsequent removal from Office at best or possibly even the Charge of Treason at worse!

Always remember 10 Million or more Americans bought Guns last month while all you and yours did was talk trash and try to convince US that your Thousand of Opinions equal Millions of Our Rights!

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." – Thomas Jefferson

so It is very encouraging to read posts from many gun owners who actually disagree with the NRA and are in favor of stricter gun laws, such as banning military assault weapons, mandatory background checks even at gun shows, etc.

It is the extremists on both sides who are causing all the stress in this situation. Thank goodness there is a majority of American citizens who are willing to find a compromise and real solutions to protect the innocent of our nation.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

It is the Psychopath not the weapon and "Guns" are some of the LEAST effective Terrorist Weapons around. But they are some of the MOST effective Weapons against Wannabee Tyrants and that is what this "Corporate Campaign" is all about..Disarming America for Wall Street..Isn't it?

Corrupt Corporate Politicians have passed Decades worth of Corrupt Peasant Peon & Salve Disarmament Laws for their Masters on Wall Street and we are suppose to think it is just a coincidence? No more corrupt "Compromising" of Our Rights for "Their" Opinions!

To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them. – George Mason

I'm sure some technical wizard can invent a door lock for a school classroom that functions with a button push similar to a door lock on a car. They could lock down all classrooms from the school office, or lock and unlock individual classroom doors from the teacher's desk. That way a shooter would find it difficult to go from classroom to classroom. This would work in elementary schools, but in high school, those vandals would screw up the system if any group would. Besides it would give those teachers who are opposed to carrying firearms, some sense of security and individual classroom control... and if a kid was late to class, they go to the principal's office before reentry. The price of lock installation would be through the local school bond issue at the ballot box, and those locals who weren't for the idea, could vote it down. I can't see why this country for all of it's inventive brilliance can't figure out a remote push button door lock for a school door. This won't work for other places of large gatherings, nor would it work for a place like the school gym and other locations the State Fire Marshall deems unfit for locked doors, but classroom doors would hold up to legal review of a door which can be closed and locked. It's also cheaper than a Constitutional challenge to the Second Amendment. The teacher could keep the push button with their identification card.

Listen close MUW, you scum. I don't care how many quotes by old people you put in here, these truths are self evident. No one is going to take anyone's gun, what needs to be put in place is to stop you and other gun nut scum from having weapons that have no practical purpose but to kill human beings. You want a f-ing revolution? Go someplace else, we have a system in place that won't need an armed insurgency, don't like the system screw you, leave. If I had my way people like you would be deported, maybe to Syria or Somalia where you belong.

An addition to my previous post. This is in respect to a remote push button for school classroom locks. It's not likely that someone who had an assault type rifle with over ten round magazines, would also be in possession of an electronic mechanism which would override classroom door locks. However, if they had both in their possession it should be deemed the FELONY crime of intending to commit mass murder. Life in prison with no parole. If they commit a murder with both in their possession, it's a federal capital crime, because they would have to have mental capacity to operate both the mass murder weapon, and the mechanism to override the classroom door lock. Anyone purposely defeating the door lock, ( vandalism ) would also suffer some form of serious legal consequences, as they could be an accessory to a mass murder, if a murder did occur. There are such things as coconspirators... and you wouldn't know that some kid defeated a lock one day, and his friend planned the assault for the following day.

There have been technical solutions to social problems in the past, such as radios to intercept get away cars. Most of the voting public would understand the concept of a remote push button door lock.

underemployed: Well, at least your posting name is a truth about the policies about the current administration. But, what have I posted that gives you alarm. I've had guns for years and have never killed anyone. Nor do I intend to kill anyone. But, if I am confronted with someone who wants to kill me or those I love, I sure do want to be able to prevent it. I guess you'd rather rely on words against a loony. I'd rather take real action to save our lives. I realize that you've got this sense that government can do whatever it damn well pleases and that it always accomplishes it's goals, but do you really think that a ban on guns is going to keep them out of the hands of criminals? If you do, you are very naive. The only people that it will keep guns away from are law abiding citizens. All you need to do is look at the government's war on drugs. How successful have they been in actually keeping illegal drugs out of the country and out of people's hands? I have no problem with doing what can be done to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals. Of course, all of the laws don't seem to have any affect on them. But, why do you want to keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. I will tell you right now that limiting my right to own a gun will do absolutely nothing to prevent the killings that occur. In truth, banning you from driving a vehicle will do more to prevent someone from dying without cause than your banning me from owning a gun. You are aware of the statistics. Many more people die from vehicle accidents than die from guns. So, if your objective is to reduce deaths, then you should focus first on banning vehicles. Otherwise, you just want to enjoy controlling other people rather than achieving real results.

Hiyas red, sorry for the delay, long day at the shop. To answer your questions:

To be considered safe and added to our list of approved handguns, any new model must have a loaded chamber indicator and a decocking mechanism. Some old models are grandfathered in and so long as they don't change any features, they will stay on there, example: the Springfield XD's... The new XDS and XDM are new but lack the one of those features so we cannot have them. Yes sucks but such is life.

Our background checks are 10 days and one is run EVERYTIME someone purchases a firearm. Multiple long guns can be done at one time but we are restricted to one handgun a month, period so only one at a time and no on the sale Dealer Record of Sale as the long gun. Many many regulations that make it difficult for both the buyer and dealer. I'm ok with it, it's the law and my job, therefore I do. Keeping the paperwork, both state and federal for 20 years, is painful and takes up a,lot of space but again... It's the law.

Yeah, right, like Bozojoe is serious about this whole gun-grabbing issue, any more than the Bozobama is, other than for the federal powergrag that is is. If ether was serious, where the ___— were either of these fools when the NUMEROUS other school massacres or mass shootings happened ON THEIR watch?!!? But since this is a convenient, high-profile shooting with MANY, WHITE victims, well, all of a sudden, let's DO something, huh? What about the HUNDREDS of shooting victims in Bozobama's home state, IL, and particularly in Chicago during 2012? Not politically expedient or noteworthy enough for Bozobama or what?

“Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.” - Joseph Stalin

Folks Gun Control isn't about Sleepy Joe and the Corporate NRA wanting to make Compromises with Our Rights, this story is about Poor & Rich don't ever doubt it. I do not mean moderately wealthy I mean my kids buy entire Islands while your kids buy Beach Homes.

These Wall Street Plutocrats are the ones who are attempting to disarm the American People and using their very own corrupted Politicians to get all of these Unconstitutional Laws passed in the First place.

Think about it, if I give you money for an election and you do something I don't like am I going to give you money next time or am I going to give it to your opponent who has sworn he would "Play Ball" on my team? If I also control almost all of the Corporate Media are they going to say nice things about you and support "Democracy" or spew forth against you?

Do you want to live in a Democratic Republic with a Wealthy Upper Middle Lower and Poor Class of People or in a Plutocratic Oligarchy made up of only the Super Rich and the Mega Poor with nothing left in between?

If you judge them by what they have done like Indefinite Detention of Americans in America, Endless Not Wars, Torture, Warrant-less Searches, Seizures, Spying and Wire Tapping Killer Drone Usage approved in America and Presidential Kill Lists of Americans Citizens and even their Children, and not just by what they have said or claimed it is obvious that this "Disarmament Campaign" against the America People is merely another extension of the exact same Corporate Policies.

We do not have a Big Government Problem we have a Wall Street Controlled Corporate Corruption of Our Government Problem!

Always remember Citizens United......

“In earlier times, it was easier to control one million people than to physically kill one million people; today, it is infinitely easier to kill one million people than to control one million people.” - Zbigniew Brzezinski

PS Read Johntho Post above and ask your self does this sound like a well balanced and reasonable Anti Gun Poster? It's just one more example of why we can no longer afford to "Compromise" with these people.....For their Vitriolic "Opinions" Do Not Equal Our Sacred "Rights"!

"

We know there's no silver bullet" for stopping mass shootings, he said during a meeting with video game industry representatives.

This gives them an alibi when the anti gun legislation attacking the law abiding 99.9% of gun owners is shown to have zero effect on gun crime. They already know this because this is all about the disarming of the American people and has precious little to do with preventing any shootings, except such incidents provide a cover for their true agenda.

You right about the compromise, there is no room for you or your WMD's in this country. Leave. Your rights end at my rights buster and I am not safer with you having a gun capable of killing not only me but several of those around me. You got rights idiot, so do I and that revolution you call for, I'll be on the other side standing up for MY freedom to be safe. You think your stable quoting a dead guy, I think I am stable standing up to your ignorance.

Wet willie, you need to educate yourself, independent of the NRA. The fact is gun violence in Canada, England and Australia, is practically non existent. One more time a good guy with a gun, can become a bad guy with a gun with one squeeze of a trigger, let along 100. There is no need for those types of guns in our civilized society, none.

@ Steve ...

I like your idea of the classroom locks. That technology, along with reinforced doors, already exists. I think it would be a wonderful idea to put it in all classrooms. Yes, it would be a high expense, but it would be a ONE TIME expense. I actually think it's much better than armed guards. There are many ways we can make buildings safer without turning them into jails.

I am against arming teachers and actually think that is rather ridiculous.

But, I do think that a kid-friendly police officer in lower grade schools is a good idea. Someone who could also talk to the children about different safety issues like bike safety, traffic safety, don't talk to strangers, etc. That way there would be an armed guard on the premises, but it would not be intimidating, or frightening for the schoolchildren, but would be somebody they could like and look up to as an authority figure. When my boys were young, we used to read a picture book to them called Officer Buckle and Gloria about a police officer and his dog that came to school and talked about safety issues. It is an award winning book that was one of their favorites.

We already have an armed security officer in the local high schools here and no one seems traumatized by it.

Encouraging to see some (a few) gun owners not buying into the NRA's "they're coming for our guns" rant. No one is talking about abridging the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms; however, that right is not without limits, any more than the First Amendment is. Try taking your CCW weapons onto a military base or into a Federal building and you'll find the limits. The mass shootings are a pro-life issue, yet the same people who claim to be pro-life seem to want nothing to do with finding a solution - hard to fathom. As far as technology, why stop at automatic door locks (the shooter is in the building by then)? Unpleasant as it may be, every school should be fenced so that no one can just wander up to the front door. The main entrance should be an entrapment area where you must pass an id check and go through a metal detector before being allowed beyond the main door. We can track your cell phone at will; why can't we do that with guns and tie that to a mapping program with locations where guns aren't allowed? Approach within a half mile and the cops are notified. Probably lots more ideas out there to be discussed.

From the SCOTUS 2008 decision in District of Columbia v Heller. The court ruled that individuals may own firearms and keep them in their homes for protection. The ruling also goes on to state:

“Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. …nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.^”

It can't get much clearer than that. Anyone who claims that the 2nd Amendment gives us unlimited rights is uninformed. Legislation limiting types of firearms or where we may carry them is not a violation of 2nd Amendment rights.

: January 12, 2013 6:21AM

A boy just days away from his 15th birthday was among two young teens killed in gun violence in Chicago since Friday afternoon, authorities said. Separate shootings wounded four other people, most of whom are also in their teens.

The boy was standing on a porch in the 2400 block of West Augusta Boulevard in the West Town neighborhood about 11:50 p.m. when two shooters walked up and opened fire, authorities said.

Chicago Sun Times

Hows that gun control working for you?

Used to be an NRA member. No more, not when they take these stupid positions on assault weapons and high capacity clips. The 2nd amendment definition was to help support the government in times of trouble, not to fight the government.

Stupid people. Ask someone in Afghanistan how well an AK 47 works against a s satellite directed drone. Not too well I bet.

Rusty: who is leaving Afghanistan because they got their a$$es whipped by a bunch of ragheads with AK47's. You don't take over a nation where the population has guns.

With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'

The NRA meeting was a farce!

If Obama is a natural born citizen of another country, then every law he has signed is null and void. Wow what a waste of time for our country he has been.

Dav1bg

Try being a suicide bomber.

Can you say ZIP? Posturing at best.

It must suck to always have a half empty glass, Talk.

Zip ... you are posturing for for a dying thought. I wander in the land of guns without Zip and I fear no Zip. Deer? I need but one bullet.

Whoops, I seem to have meandered to another sphere ... @!$%# Politics, let's @!$%#!

Not always half empty Layton. It's just that I have seen too much of the same sort of "jump on the bandwagon" stuff over the years that I just can't believe that anything, anything meaningful is going to come out of this. I hope in 60 days or so I am wrong. I will gladly eat crow any way you want to serve it up if I am.

This has nothing to do with what the NRA says and everything to do with what gun control advocates hope they can get passed before real solutions that might actually work are considered.

It's round one of a fight. Everyone's got a position. The only one American's won't settle for is doing nothing.

Talk ...

I hope in 60 days or so I am wrong. I will gladly eat crow any way you want to serve it up if I am.

I hope so as well. Voted your comment up. Have a good weekend.

The ONLY gun association that attended the meeting and DIDN'T AGREE that we need tougher restrictions(not bans) on the way people are allowed to purchase weapons was the NRA. If you are against a universal gun register or tougher mental health checks then you must have something to hide that won't allow you to purchase weapons.

depraw: can you please point me to the place where Biden & Obama will not ban a type of weapon. A link would be much appreciated.

In the debate , wide swaths of weapons have been mentioned as ban fodder.

i just feel so bad for all you gun owners what with ALL the gun laws that have been passed the last four years.

depraw

If you are against a universal gun register or tougher mental health checks then you must have something to hide that won't allow you to purchase weapons.

Maybe you didn't hear about Journal News published an interactive map with the names and addresses of legal pistol-permit holders in Rockland and Westchester counties. So criminals can either know which houses to break in to steal guns or which houses to avoid when they break in.

What stops newspapers from not publishing a universal gun registeration? It's like if the newspaper got hold of every single person infected and treated with STDs from a public health clinic and posted on a interactive map on a website. See..... you would feel violated too eh?

if you can afford a gun you can afford a locker ad a lock. anybody can find out where i live, where my car is parked and what a drive and a whole slew of information about me as it is. so no different.

and to quote the usual fearful republican style response "if your('e) not doig anything wrong then you have nothing to hide!

I have nothing to hide if I were to apply for a gun permit, have never committed a felony, never intentionally harmed another human being even after being a bar bouncer for a while, but guess what? I still can't get a handgun permit because about a decade ago I got frustrated waiting on disability to kick in before I got evicted and would have no where to go, and threw some stuff out of my house into the back yard. It scared my sister, especially when I wouldn't let her in my house(at that point I was simply tryin' to cool down and get things in perspective and figure out how things were gonna work out, which you can't do if you're even the tiniest bit upset.) At anyrate, she called the sheriff just to check on me and make sure I was ok. I was fine. There was a gun in the house, but I never touched it because I had no reason to, but just because the sheriff came down and took me to the local hospital to be sure I was ok, it was MANDATORY that I stayed for 5 days....involuntary commitment. Just those two words on paper is all it took. And because of that, I can't own a handgun. Does that make sense? I've owned guns since I was about 12 to go hunting, owned several handguns prior to that, and I own a shotgun right now, but I have no desire to use one on a human. My brain isn't wired that way. Self defense would be a different matter, but intentional?......no way. It's just not in me. What the so called "experts" AND the NRA are missing, is that we don't need any more "gun control" laws, we should start a permanent panel to monitor how judges in this country sentence people who intentionally use a gun, or any other weapon for that matter, to MUCH stiffer penalties. If the judges can't do their job, fire 'em. I know this isn't gonna sit well with a lot of people, but we need to bring back capital punishment....and make it swift, no back room plea deals, and no more life sentences for people who've taken lives or ruined one. One, two, or twenty, it doesn't matter. We have one of the weakest judicial systems in the world. That's why our prisons are chock full and we build more all the time. A lil slap on the wrist, maybe an ankle bracelet for a while, and a "don't do that anymore" is about all criminals get anymore. Then they're back out that revolving door, just to come back again and again. A killer should be killed, period. They shouldn't be allowed to live anymore since they'll never be productive citizens. They lost the right to that freedom when they pulled the trigger. They should be allowed a fair trial like anybody else. They're entitled to it, but IF they're found guilty by a jury of their peers, give 'em 5 minutes to decide if they want a cigarette and a beer, then take 'em out back of the courthouse and then they have two last choices. Hang by a rope, or face a firing squad, right there and then. THEN you'll see an immediate and REAL drop in violence in this country. If you start outlawing guns, that's gonna be like fartin' in the wind to change the course of a hurricane. Guns and high capacity magazines will still be out there for the bad guys. If somebody's hell bent on killin' somebody else, where does it end with a list of lethal objects? My shovel for my garden? My baseball bat? All my kitchen knives? Seriously, banning any gun will just be a band aid on a giant sore. Make parents more accountable for their kids, bring back corporal punishment in school. It was around when I was in school, and it didn't harm us...it TAUGHT us not to do wrong things. Nowdays if a teacher lays a hand on a kid, the teacher can get sued, and the prisoners that killed somebody....they can also file lawsuits. HOW and WHY do they have rights like that??? We've become a nation of pantywaisters......."hey, the guy killed 50 ppl, but don't hang him, that would be cruel and inhumane!" ????? Give me a freakin' break! I guess killin' innocent people isn't cruel and inhumane huh. If, IF we actually would produce a criminal justice system where it favored the victim(s) instead of the criminal, and created a REAL deterrant such as hanging and/or firing squad, then we could call it gun control, but now it's just way out of hand where taxpayers fill the bill for violent people to live another day with tv, rec equipment, library(including law books!) clean clothes, a place to sleep, armed guards, 3 meals a day, medical service at their disposal. Hell, some of that's more than what I have, and I'm not a criminal. The picture is all f'd up, and simply calling this horse and pony show in DC now any kind of "control" is a joke, and it's gettin' played on every one of us until we completely and totally revamp the way real justice is done in the US. Change that, and then we're at least on the right track. This is just an average, but we spend over 22k a year on a prisoner, and about 10k a year on our kids education and future. Wtf is wrong with that picture alone?

believerof

if you can afford a gun you can afford a locker ad a lock. anybody can find out where i live, where my car is parked and what a drive and a whole slew of information about me as it is. so no different.

and to quote the usual fearful republican style response "if your('e) not doig anything wrong then you have nothing to hide!

Then post a map of everyone that had STDs. Who cares about personal privacy.

I don't have any confidence that a guy nicknamed sleepy joe could ever come up with a viable solution to this problem. Layton... you are dreaming the impossible dream girl!

By his own admission, Biden says what he means.... lol! God help us!

crossfire hurricane . . .

Layton... you are dreaming the impossible dream girl!

Better to walk in this life with dreams and hope then dwell in the ugliness without it.

Better to walk in this life with dreams and hope then dwell in the ugliness without it.

Actually it is better to find realistic solutions that will work best, rather than have politicans who don't have a clue about the subject decide for us. Where'd you copy that prose from layton?

I understand Biden is now suggesting that all guns be fitted with an 'owner operated only' device that won't allow other to use someone elses gun, lol. It seems Biden is watching James Bond movies for answers rather than listen to real life gun experts! Sleepy Joe never fails to amuse!

Maybe people should read up on the wild west. The NRA wants us to go back to living in Dodge City.

When organized gangs get to where they can compete with law enforcement on an equal footing the law abiding citizens get scared and start packing. Pretty soon the whole place is full of bullet holes.

Look at the cities and you can see that this has been happening for years. The cities get in budget problems and cut back on police. Then crime rises. Then people start packing. Then the murder rate goes up. You would be amazed at how many millions of people are packing without a concealed carry permit.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure."~Thomas Jefferson

Forget the NRA they are "Compromised"

Our Freedom Campaigns are working folks.....Now get out shout down then drive past these Malcontents and Wannabee Tyrants!

Just look around in the Real Media and never trust the Corporate Media. They work for the same Wall Street Oligarchs who have Corrupted and Perverted Our Politician System and now attempt to have their Democratic and Republican Stooges Disarm US for their Plutocratic Masters!

U.S. Distrust in Media Hits New High....http://www.gallup.com/poll/157589/distrust-media-hits-new-high.aspx

Demand that Our "Bill of Rights be Reasserted in its ENTIRETY! The 1st, the 2nd, the 3rd, the 4th, the 5th, the 6th, the 7th, the 8th, the 9, and the 10th!

The Corrupt Plutocratic Wall Street Controlled Stooges and Wannabee Tyrants intend to steal a Mile, let US give them back an Inch....It's what the Second Amendment is all about and nothing else!

"If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves." - Joseph Stalin

Sally rocks classically . . .

Where'd you copy that prose from layton?

My brain. I do think for myself and have written journals and poetry for years as well as being a very well-read person. I'm taking that as a compliment by the way.

As for what was discussed in the meetings, I will wait to see the facts presented rather than presumptions and innuendo.

I want realistic solutions as well. Take care and have a good weekend.

An armed society is a polite society. – Robert A. Heinlein

Hahahaha.... That's Right Baby!

Always remember 10 Million or more Americans bought Guns last month while all you and yours did was talk trash trying to convince US that your Thousand of Opinions equals the same as Millions of Our Rights!

The Second Amendment is the Equal Rights Amendment. – Jannalee Tobias

Yep, the NRA has one speed, more guns....all the time.

ya know... you guys should probably go buy a gun while youre thinking this over... just sayin'.

I used to be a member of the NRA... I got tired of them.

I signed up for the free insurance policy for my handguns (and the cool pen shaped like a bullet). In return I got my mailbox stuffed full of "urgent" letters from the organization begging for money (in $20-$40 increments) all with an attached letter saying that congress was seconds away from repealing the 2nd Amendment and only my donation (of as much money as I could send! ... ASAP please!) was going to stop them!

I got more SPAM (both real-life and electronic) from the NRA in the one year I was a member than all the canadian pharmacy, free mortgage modifications, penis pills and check out my titties E-mails combined.

If you really think about it, the odds that handguns are really going to be banned or that the 2nd amendment is going to be repealed are about zero. It would take a constitutional amendment as well as ratification from most of the states... it ain't gonna happen.

Also, many states protect the right to own guns in their state constitutions.

The NRA does not front fr the gun industry. They have been and always will be for the second admendment.

They are for reasonable laws so law abiding citizens can own firearms of their choice. They have many times asked for the Fed's. to enforce the laws on the books which they won't and continue to refuse to do. Its the Fed. always trying to look for ways to take away our rights to bear arms that cause the gun industry to thrive by massive gun and ammo sales.

Its also the Federal government looking the other way at the border and at the docks. How many illegal guns and other weapons are smuggled in from the south or from ships.Hard to say when we have such an incompetent and lazy Federal Government who is more interested in wasting money making more useless laws they don't intend to enforce and sit on their lazy ass's and do nothing good for the people.

Sorry, Left, you are wrong. The NRA became the front for the gun industry when cities and municipalities were starting to sue manufacturers over the deaths and carnage in their locals.

The only goal the NRA has left is to feed the paranoia of the least among us so they sell more guns. If you fall into that category, you might want to consider that you are getting played for a fool by an organization that is laughing at you.

Redwizardooooo, I've been a member of the NRA for 9 years now and do not recieve any junk or spam mail from them that isn't asked for... perhaps your problem is yours... not theirs! I have been receiving a email copy of American Rifleman but pay a nominal amount for that. The only requests for donations I get is when I click on the donation button on their website. Maybe you were actually talking about a porn site you belong to, not the NRA... lol!

And newdogDawning... you really don't know anything at all about what the NRA stands for or does, why are you making up lies about them?

Really? My husband was a member, he is fed up with their bull crap and has dropped his membership.

Hunting is big where I live. My husband hunts. But he is not a paranoid NRA thug wannabe.

“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.” – Patrick Henry

The Corporate NRA has gotten enough Corporate Publicity over their willingness to Compromise OUR RIGHTS away! Forget all of this silly Corporate Media fear mongering disinformation propaganda and silly Anti 2nd Amendment nonsense.

Support the Gun Owners of America and the Oath Keepers instead for unlike the NRA and a few in Congress they support and defend the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic including these Wall Street Robber Barons!

The real story today is that most of the Non Mega Corporate Media Outlets (and even a few of the Corporate ones) are now claiming Congress is bolting for their "Bunkers" like Reporters behind Dick Cheney with a gun, over more Gun Control legislation!

So who do you believe Our Citizen Journalists or these Corporate Propagandists?

Write your Congress Man or Woman and demand that they uphold the Oath Of Office to the letter intent and spirit or face defeat in the next election as so many did after the last Gun Control Debauchery in 1994!

If Biden wants to be President all he has to do is get Obama to sign an Anti Gun Executive Order behind Congresses "back" and then not even the Master Corporate Minion Almost Defeated by a Witch Harry Reid will be able to save the Obomination!

Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence. ~Thomas Jefferson

Redwizardooooo, I've been a member of the NRA for 9 years now and do not recieve any junk or spam mail from them that isn't asked for... perhaps your problem is yours... not theirs! I have been receiving a email copy of American Rifleman but pay a nominal amount for that. The only requests for donations I get is when I click on the donation button on their website. Maybe you were actually talking about a porn site you belong to, not the NRA... lol!

I do not belong to any porn sites. I know where to go on the Internet for legal free porn that does not require a membership. Giving a porn site your contact information is a really... stupid thing to do. Browsing for porn is best done anonymously and through a throw away virtual PC that doesn't have access to your main system. If you need help setting up such a system, just let me know and I can point you in the right direction.

I may have exagerated the E-mail part a little bit, although I did get quite a bit of stuff from them, a couple of news letters and some monthy catalogs. They also had a newsletter that listed all the gun related legislation pending in several states.

I got the american rifleman magazine in hard copy and it came via US Mail. So did a ton of junk letters asking for money. I would get at least one donation request letter a month, usually more. After a tradgety involving guns, for example when Congresswoman Giffords was shot, I would get several "Urgent" letters "signed" by that La Pierre (or whatever) guy stating that the end was near for gun owners and owners of assault rifles and expanded magazines unless I quickly sent as much money as possible to the organization. I would get these letters all the time. I also got invited to a $300 per plate fundraising dinner once...

I don't know what you are doing differently than I am, maybe they for some reason thought that I had money and that is why they were always harassing me for it. My copies of American Rifleman were "free" with my annual membership, I didn't need to pay a nominal fee for it. Perhaps that has something to do with it?

Guns, cause violence.

Silverware, causes obesity.

Cars, cause accidents.

Paper, causes bad laws.

Adler: I believe the membership of the NRA would be more willing to discuss rational legislation for gun control then the leadership is. It really is time for the membership of the NRA to step up and take their organization back from the thugs that run it.

Alder-...., NRA was probably schooled by Veep Biden??? Seriously that dope would have trouble schooling kindergartners on their ABC's.

Yes, It's sad, but I don't believe the NRA leadership has any closer relationship to the will and wishes of its actual membership than say... The GOP does to 95% of those that identify themselves as Republican... They're purposefully disconnected from their "supposed constituency" and operating at the behest of an entirely different group. All the while using that "supposed constituency" as a bully pulpit on their lobbying targets, politicians.

Hide and protect who really calls the shots.

Keep the membership mainly fooled into thinking it's for them.

Use the membership to threaten pols into seeing things the way your real shot-callers want.

Insert cash as needed for its lubricating effect on the gears.

Hey! Wait a minute! Are we talking about the NRA or the Romney campaign???

that dope

Joe Biden is not a dope. Would you care to list the success stories in your life and compare them to Joe Biden's?

Aw, but I know where you're coming from. Guns! If Joe Biden joined the NRA today, you would proclaim him an excellent fellow, I'm sure.

yeah, he's only the vice president.. totally stupid guy.

Adler: I believe the membership of the NRA would be more willing to discuss rational legislation for gun control then the leadership is. It really is time for the membership of the NRA to step up and take their organization back from the thugs that run it.

No the NRA doesn't really care what their members think, they just want your money... all of it... right now... as soon as possible. (act NOW and get a free gift! look, it's a little gun holster with the NRA Logo all over it, you know you want one!)

They are kind of like a religion. Except with guns.

I actually think you are quite right Redwizardooo! Have a good weekend.

I will be at work, so be sure to enjoy some of it for me!

I sure will! I'm sitting home in a winter storm, can't go anywhere anyway.

NNDR -

Me too to the winter storm ... how is that Gbaby?????? :)

Doing beautifully, Layton thanks for asking! Can't get over how much she has grown already!

I doubt the NRA even paid much attention to Biden.You can pass all the laws you want now but every one knows everything will be grand fathered in. And that is millions of weapons and clips already out there. The criminals will get more desperate preying on the defenseless . Can you imagine the Government trying to take peoples guns?

I am going to start a sling shot factory advertise on MSN and make millions.

The gov't will not take people's guns. Yes, any new gun law will allow people to keep their guns. No one will be defenseless. There will still be lots of legal guns.

Until the criminals steal them.

Criminals will steal them. I saw a stat that says there are 200,000 stolen hand guns each year.

"One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin

Gun Control Proponents

Why do you think the "Tide Appears to Be Changing" and Congress & Obama are distancing themselves from the Gun Control Debate and Joseph Biden? If Obama isn't careful this Threat Of Dictatorial Decree By Executive Order issue alone could come to ruin his entire "Legacy"!

BTW Do you realize that "Hitler and Gun Control" is one of if not the largest search Parameters on the Popular Search Engines like "Startpage" since this latest attack against the 2nd Amendment started?

You can sure bet Obama and Congress also knows about 10 Million Plus New Gun Owners since this latest Corporate "Disarm America" Campaign started!

I am just one who thinks you should call a Cow Patty a Pile of Sh...t and to not try to cover up its stink rather than get rid of it!

Our Congress and the Whitehouse are full of Corporate Cow Patties and what better time to get rid of them than right after they have Violated Their Oaths?

Just like what happened after Katrina when Congress "Reaffirmed" what was already Our Right to Bear Arms, now is the time to insure it never happens again!

America....Write your Congress Man or Woman (try POPVOX) and Demand Impeachment Proceedings are started against Diane Feinstein and Joseph Biden among others for failure to uphold their Oath of Office to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies both foreign and domestic!

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government…" – Alexander Hamilton,

Silly gun person. It is not nor should it be against the law to talk about changing the law, even the constitution. And, it is not against the law to change the law, or change the constitution.

And, it is not against the law to change gun laws, making it easier to control guns, who gets them, and what their affect is on a society.

Perhaps you can start a petition to deport Joe Biden?

looks like the NRA web supported site you got your figures from fudged the U.S. numbers just a little. The actual number for the U.S. is 2941 per 100,000.

Where did your stat come from?

Are you stupid or just plain retarded? That statistic would mean that for every 100 people (every man, woman, and child), 3 would die a year by a gun. Thats a whopping 3% of the entire population dying each and every year, or 30% in ten years, or 99.99% of the population dead in just 33 years. Last time I checked, I don't live in Chicago...which is probably the only city with that high of death rate by gun. Which also happens to have the "toughest" gun control in the country. A lot of good that does.

In short, your "statistic" is bull$h!t3.

depraw

looks like the NRA web supported site you got your figures from fudged the U.S. numbers just a little. The actual number for the U.S. is 2941 per 100,000.

Yeah, I would like to see where you got your numbers Einstein. 2941 per 100,000 is just way too high. More like 10.2 per 100,000. Even Hondurus is only at 68.43 per 100,000. I bet Syria with the Civil war going is alot higher.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list#data

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Mchasseron,

There are numerous violent crimes that do not result in death the most common of which is robbery. It is entirely possible that the first statistic was deaths by violent crimes per 100,000 and the second was simply violent crimes per 100,000.

FBI data: There were an estimated 403.6 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010.

www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/violent-crime

If your going to look for ridiculous statistics (which detracts from your intent), you might at least keep them GUN related.

We are talking about gun related not violent crimes. Violent crimes can be anything. Assault involving cars, bats, fists..... anything.

"US Protects Guns - 466 violent crimes per 100,000 people"

I've seen similar stats from the FBI's own website

More propaganda from a gun nut.

These crimes were committed by someone with a gun and a grudge. Get over yourself, because rational gun control is the only answer.

We will no longer be bullied by the NRA thugs.

No kidding, NDD! I love the way Patrick knows what they were all so obsessed with. Another armchair prosecutor.

newdayStupid..Returns, Layton-6666

We have the liberal socialist propaganda dummies who simply have no clue on right and wrong, just politics and agitation of their neighbors.

Layton: If Patrick is asking for those kinds of videos to be limited or banned, he asks for limits to the First Amendment.

Which means he must know that limitations can be put on the Second Amendment.

Irony, don't you love it?

Poor Patrick, did you get your feelings hurt? Sorry, but an objective observer might agree that the agitation is being done by you and your gun nut friends.

Live with it.

samedaySTUPID...RETURNED

I will gladly force you to lose your 1st Amendment right if I must lose my 2nd Amendment right!

What year was Chadds Ford and why are your memories of being in it so precious that it became your screen name?

Is that what you consider intelligent discourse, Patrick? Threats?

I am starting to think that YOU are one that should not be allowed guns at all. Perhaps there are some challenges that you should deal with.

Now. If you want to discuss things with me, do it in a somewhat erudite fashion, and leave the posturing at home. I am not impressed.

Patrick in Chadds Ford--It is ironic---you're protected from railing against the First Amendment...BY the First Amendment. Gun loonies forget that without the First, the rest are NOTHING. If you have no right to free speech, you have no rights, PERIOD.--And I think your guns should be removed from you as soon as possible to prevent a stupid death or more.

I'm a denier of stupidity. I may be wrong on this, but I remember learning in my college psychology class that when people are able to think about something in their head, they are far less apt to act on impulse. So if I see a guy I really hate, and think "I would love to punch that guy in the face", I am far less apt to act upon it, rather than not thinking and just punching him in the face.

That being said, movies/games/entertainment are just that, entertainment and have nothing to do with how people will act because we have these little things called brains. Those that have messed up brains are the ones to worry about.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

These crimes were committed by someone with a gun and a grudge. Get over yourself, because rational gun control is the only answer.

Connecticut with one of the restricted gun states in the country but it didn't stop him did it? There is no such thing as rational gun control. Even if they ban all guns. People will still get killed by people with mental issues and a grudge. Look at China where a nutt slashed bunch of kids with a butcher knife at a elementary. And that was several incidents, not just one.

Sure. And the reason is that there are states that make it quite easy to get guns. Well, that and the perps mom apparently thought it was a good idea to teach her mentally ill, socially isolated adult son how to handle guns that shoot lots and lots of bullets. She died because of her own stupidity, and sadly enough little children died too.

So. Let's nationalize the laws.

And by the way, the China incident...all those kids survived.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

And by the way, the China incident...all those kids survived.

Are you sure about that? BTW, like I said, there was more than 1 incident. What you wanna do? Ban knives?

March 23, 2010 - Zheng Minsheng murdered 8 children with a knife at a elementary school in Nanping, China.

April 2010 - Chen Kangbing wounded at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher.

April 29, 2010 - Jainjsu went to Zhongxin Kindergarten and and stabbed 28 students, two teachers and one security guard.

April 30, 2010 - Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang China

May 2010 - Wu Huanming killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten Hanzhon, Shaanxi.

Aug 2010 - Fang Jiantang slashed more than 20 children and staff with a 60 cm knife, killing 3 children and 1 teacher at a Kindergarden in Zibo, Shangdong providence.

Aug 2011 - Eight children, all aged four or five were wounded by a worker with a box cutter in Minhang district, Shangai.

Sept 2011 - a young girl and three adults taking their children to nursery school were killed in Gongyi, Henan by Wang Hongbin with an axe. Another child and an adult were seriously wounded but survived

Dec 2012 - 36 year-old villager in the village of Chenpeng stabbed 23 children and an elderly woman at the village's primary school as children were arriving for classes. All of the victims survived and were treated at three hospitals, though some were reportedly seriously injured, with fingers or ears cut off, and had to be transferred to larger hospitals for specialized care.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_(2010%E2%80%932012)

And the common theme is the media constantly replaying these news 24/7. Basically a platform for the mentally ill to give them 15 mins of fame.

Yes. I am sure about that.

The subject is actually guns and the United States. Honestly, I would rather take my chances with a nut with a knife then a gun.

And..my 10 lb Papillon stopped a guy from entering the house when I was home alone. He got caught at the farm up the road with no dog.

It doesn't always take a gun to protect oneself.

NDD . . .

It doesn't always take a gun to protect oneself.

Exactly! Dogs are a very big deterrent. Even those that are small bite big. I've always felt more protected at home alone because the pups are here and while they might bark at the cat up the street and annoy me at times, they definitely alert me when someone is at the door!

A gun doesn't need to be fed, walked or taken to teh vet regularly for over-priced innoculations.

But a gun won't keep you warm on a cold, stormy night like my Papillon does.

If we had still had the German Shepherds here, the guy would never have stepped out of his car. They would have stopped him.

But, we are back to big dogs on the farm after that experience.

"anyone" is "potentially trying to kill you?"

Whew! ....what a stupid comment from another low information obama socialist who simply is uneducated on how to be an American and utilize simple logic !

The Dali Lama never said it was reasonable to own a gun.

blackbrainstupid.....YES HE DID!

Patrick, can you learn to speak nicely to the other children?

And I agree with the Dalai Lama, if someone is trying to kill you, you have a right to kill them first.

Patrick,

Read each word slowly and carefully. Sound them out if you have to. Try to get to the end of the sentence before you go off "half-cocked"

Are you seriously that brainwashed to think that? WTF

The Dali Lama never said it was reasonable to own a gun.

That's right. He said it was unreasonable to deny ownership.

"...Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest..."-- Mohandas Gandhi, 1927

Dear Stupid,

Not brainwashed, simply not "gun dependent" or "gun addicted" as so many posting here are

Actually, the Dali Lama was specific about what he said, this was in Seattle and I have forgotten when, but he was talking to students. He said that it was reasonable to use a gun to protect oneself if the other guy had a gun, but not to shoot to kill.

@Kamaaina - The comment you made that everyone who owns a gun is potentially trying to kill you is absolutely beyond my comprehension. I just don't know how to respond in a civil manner. It is just plain wrong. It is just like saying that everyone who takes a breath is potentially trying to kill you because they may take up some oxygen you need to live.

Patrick ..

Liberals protect the mentally ill from being committed

You're full of it. Liberals are the ones that actually understand that mental health issues NEED to be addressed. Bat sh*t crazy RWNJs are the ones that are cutting funding right and left leaving those with mental health issues and no funding on the streets.

Layton-666

STUPID is all you low information obama voter. The leftist liberal socialist democrats LET THE KOOKS OUT of MENTAL WARDS back in the 1960's and they now live on our streets!

The movie One Flew Over The Cuckoo Nest was directly related to that event as well as Don Imus's famous song from that era ...."There Coming to Take Me Away, Ah ha"

My goodness, Patrick, you simply do not know what you are talking about. It is the right wing hero St. Ronnie that gutted funding to mental health services. St. Ronnie wanted the money removed to he could help his businessmen buddies.

So you want to blame anyone, blame Ronnie Reagan.

Don Imus's famous song? Really?

No. The institutions were shut down because they were a hotbed of abuse, no programming took place, and people DIED in them.

Why don't you educate yourself (tongue firmly planted in cheek, because people like you don't want the truth) and research Willowbrook?

If the funding had gone to community services for mental health social clubs, medical services as well as supportive living situations, the outcome could have been improved.

But St. Ronnie had to help his rich buddies, homelessness sky rocketed, and the mentally ill had nowhere to turn. Not a huge lobbying group to help them.

And by the way, I worked in that field, I know exactly what happened.

Good lord, Patrick! A wee bit upset?

Thanks for citing your sources ....

The movie One Flew Over The Cuckoo Nest was directly related to that event as well as Don Imus's famous song from that era ...."There Coming to Take Me Away, Ah ha"

Makes the rest of your posts more entertaining knowing where you get your information from. I work with Mental Health and Substance Abuse facilities across the country helping them to gather data to achieve outcomes to receive funding. I think I know what I'm talking about.

But a high cap magazine sure makes it easier for cowards to do so without much planning. I maintain this belief--anyone that is not military or police who wants those kind of weapons is planning on killing people one day---everything else is an excuse. I'm talking high-cap mags and weapons that can be converted to automatic, like the AR-15 as an example.

BTW, your anger is endemic and demonstrative of someone who shouldn't be allowed near sharp objects, let alone even a handgun. It's people like you that those who wish to wipe out guns COMPLETELY are motivated by. If you're this angry on a forum, what would you be like face-to-face with a firearm nearby? THAT, sir is why people want gun control or elimination--and they believe their right to live safely trumps your made-up Second Amendment NRA guff.

Said my piece. DONE talking to fools. They have far more experience at being fools.

Name one high profile shooting where the shooter converted their weapons to automatic and used that to kill people. Semi-auto is when you press the trigger and 1 bullet comes out. Full Automatic is when you press the trigger once, and the whole magazine full of ammo empties in few secs.

Cho killed 32 people and injuried 17 more in the worst school shooting in US history. He used a Walter P22 22lr caliber semi-automatic pistol and Glock 9mm semi-automatic pistol with nineteen 10 rd and 15rd magazines. He didn't use a automatic and most of his mags were not high capacity (10rds). It won't matter if the magazine capacity was only 3, he just used more magazines.

Ronald Reagan was a liberal? That certainly would be news to him. He, as Governor of California, closed most of the mental institutions in the state putting many of the patients on the street. Instead of cleaning up the state institutions, clamping down on caregivers who abuse patients he chose to close the institutions and let the patients run free. Yes, the demigod of the right did that and you blame liberals?

Adler . . .

He, as Governor of California, closed most of the mental institutions in the state putting many of the patients on the street

I used to live in Alameda in the 80's and had friends in Oakland that lived above Highland Hospital. You're so correct about putting them in the streets. I felt horrible driving to my friends and seeing so many that had been "evicted" laying on the curb in front of the hospital. Sad.

Pretty sure he and Nancy thought they were just on drugs and once put out, could just say No!

And now the same mentally ill are also clogging up the ER. And people wonder why the wait times are long and expensive.

"And now the same mentally ill are also clogging up the ER"

Wow. The milk of human kindness missed you entirely. Would you prefer that they go off and simply die in the street?

"sin tax" on bullets? That is what's wrong in this country. If we can't convince you of our opinion, then we'll just brow beat you with taxes and fees until you submit to our opinion. I for one think that this whole gun rights BS is going to be the start of this country's next war, however, it will be on our soil and it will be VERY short lived, considering one side has all the guns and the other sides has witless banter.

Jim S-1923410

Your a complete LOON. Reality based? Yeah, right.

A "sin" tax on bullets won't accomplish anything. It will make responsible gun owners pay more for something that they use responsibly. How is that a sin?

Gun ownership in and of itself is not the problem. Irresponsible gun owners, people with questionable sanity having access to guns, criminal activities are all responsible. That means people are at fault not the guns. There has to be a balance between one's second amendment right to bear arms and uncontrolled, unfettered, running amok people who are irresponsible with guns.

The guy in Conneticut got the guns from his mother. Because she had them where her unstable son had access to them she lost her life and caused the lives of small children to be lost. So who was at fault in the Sandy Hook incident? The shooter AND his mother. There should have been a way of having him committed by a psycologist for observation and/or treatment. Committed doesn't necessarily mean a bed at the funny farm but medication or daily, weekly or monthy sessions. These need to be done whether one's insurance covers it or not. Maybe mom didn't have insurance or they didn't cover mental illness and maybe the kid had no insurance through her or on his own that might have paid for mental health treatments. There is more to this than just owning or not owning guns and ammunition.

Education of people on how to detect possible mental problems and how to descretely report it. Caution must be taken, however, that someone doesn't report someone just because they are angry at them and want to embarass them or punish them in some way. It is not going to be easy but something must be done and sooner rather than later.

Irag, Afghanistan, Bosni, Chicago, Detroit insurgents PROVES YOUR A STUPID FOOL!

Patrick -- Do you think an AR15 is any more effective than a .44 cal. revolver in stopping an intrudder or for that matter some mass killing idiot.

Patrick ...

PROVES YOUR A STUPID FOOL!

If you're going to take the time to lock your caps and insult someone, I'd suggest you use your spell check. Makes your insult a wee bit more credible.

Old man....

I actually own both and depending where you live, YES.

For many citizens living on the Mexican boarder or in high crime states like "gun free zone Chicago" there is no substitute.

But let's remove that "straw man bs", the 2nd Amendment is to protect me FROM THE GOVERNMENT not intruders.

Patrick Have you ever served you [read our] country. please ref. to post#11.

Patrick is easily deluded by the propaganda from the NRA. The only way they can keep growing their membership is to encourage the easily deluded to believe that the government is out to get them.

They always forget that the government is each one of us.

What phrase did Patrick use? Ah yes, the pet of the college flunk out, prescription drug addled Rush Limbaugh.

"Low information voter."

Enough said.

Wow Patrick. You seem angry at the whole world. Did Chadd leave and take the Ford or what? You're gonna be OK... And everyone else doesn't have to be called stupid for that to happen... Just relax, be American, and use some simple logic... Ready?... Suppose a guy named Patrick lives in a place called "Chadds Ford" and needs to choose a screen name...

Patrick in Chadds Ford?... Broadcast to places far and wide?? Not exactly the result of simple American logic in my book...

sorry oldman, but your opinion is flawed at its very core, first the US military is phasing out all of its full auto m4's because they have determined that semi-auto and 3rd burst are far more effective and that full auto is a waste of ammunition. Second, do you really think that our own military, especially special forces, would participate in the killing of American citizens? You obviously don't know any of them because every vet I know owns an AR-15 and would be on the side of the Constitution when the chips are down. Third, even if all the military (approx 500,000) and all the police (about 600,000) were to turn against the gun owners of America, that amounts to about 1% of the number of gun owners in this country. So no offense, but if a bunch of goat herders in Afghanistan can tie up our military for over 10 years, I think 1-10 million gun owners would put up a pretty stiff fight.

Yes, nut 99% would be hiding in their mom's basement typing furiously in blogs such as these egging the suicidal ones on, only to take up bowling for a new hobby in short order.

Too bad it's just more of this administration's 'my way or the highway' approach.

Poor Tammy, you have an error of admission. You, of course, mean the NRA's dictatorial approach to gun control.

My bad I meant he was for both wars and voted for the wars in Iraq and Afgahnistan.

I appollogize for the Numerous spelling errors.

David please refer to post 11.2

No one is talking about a gun ban.

davey -

Cuomo and Feinstein are...

Cuomo wants a ban on assault weapons? I'm OK with restricting, even prohibiting, certain kinds of weapons. There will still be lots and lots of guns in New York State.

davey -

It came out in the news - or don't you keep up with current events?

I try.

It is about regulation. That is also a word in the 2nd amendment, most noted for its absence in arguments from right wing 2nd amendment extremists. "... a well regulated militia ..." Nothing in the constitution is infringable, even when it says it is. "Regulation" IS the infringement that the extremist gun advocates always forget. We who are against gun violence are simply looking for a little of that regulation to be applied.

Tony, in 18th century legal usage "regulated" was synonymous with equipped and supplied. This is how we ended up with terms such as "regular army" and "irregular army", the regular army has it's equipment supplied by the government, the irregulars have to bring their own.

As for the militia, the United States Militia Code specifies that all males aged 16 to 45 are members of the Militia, as are all military veterans up to age 65.

So to translate the part you are focusing on, it would be "A well equipped and supplied force of eligible citizens between 16 and 45 and veterans to 65"

"United States Militia Code"? What is this? I'm not familiar with it. And the people in this militia, are they bound to preserve and protect their nation, or are they committed to overthrowing their governmet if they don't like the result of an election and cannot abide the will of the majority?

Robert- numbers: Respectfully, can you provide me an accurate source for that definition? In those days, each member supplied their own arms and equipment, so I don't necessarily agree with your definition,but would like to read about it.

Robert: Your definition of regulated is quaint, and I suspect that was not what was meant by the framers of the constitution, but even if it was, does that not imply that a well regulated militia is equipped and supplied by the government, and thus is committed to the preservation of law and order and the preservation of the country, not its overthrow?

In a quick reading of Federalist paper 29 (Hamilton), he seems to make it a broad definition, including training, so that the militia can act as a body, not as a bunch of irregulars.

ndD-R,

But since the local authorities were not in the habit of supplying weapons for their local militias, it was necessary for the citizen to bring their own to militia training. Most males of militia age were expected to own a gun and in fact were not eligible to join unless they did own one.

I agree, Hey, Mikey. Remember, it was a low, far flung population in a country that had gone from the Articles of Confederation to a more federalized central government. They were still dotting the i's and crossing the t's and didn't really have much money, having just fought a war. My understanding of it is that the Federal government did have responsibility to organizing and training so that there was a "well regulated militia" that could be depended on in emergency. I am not sure the "well-regulated" part referred to equipment solely, and that is why I asked Robert for a source. I would simply like to know if that is true or not.

When I read the evolution of the Second Amendment, it does seem that males were all considered a part of it, initial writings exempted those for religious conviction.

But I would like to read more about it, so hopefully will hear from Robert.

Just as the first amendment does not allow you to say or write anything you damn well please about someone else; slander, defamation of character, and libel are limitations on the first amendment as they hurt another. By this we can see that the second amendment doesn't allow anyone to have whatever firearm they please. We have the right to own firearms but in a reasonable and responsible manner just like we can assemble PEACEFULLY and not riot or speak without slander or defaming someone else's character. We can write about someone without damaging his reputation through lies called slander. Sure we are often lax on this to a point but not so lax that suits aren't filed and these violations of the rights of others are trampled.

This;

"http://www.constitution.org/mil/cs_milit.htm"

Thanks.

Thanks for posting that Brian, will be taking a hard look at it today. Always appreciate it when someone answers my questions.

And MORE paranoia from the Wayne La Pierre wannabes.

I thinik there are many examples of free countries where people do not have access to guns.

Yes there are examples of free countries with no to limited access to guns, now please go and look at the statistics of crime adn violent crime in those countries pre and post bans. Then you come back and tell me if you still think banning guns is a good idea.

A gun ban is not going to happen. Stop worrying about a gun ban.

Canada has a much lower rate of murder than the US. It is more difficult to get a gun in Canada. Same as Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Japan, Austria...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

You have some statistics that you'd like to share?

Tell that to Chuck Norris... then again I guess some people can't use their hands.

... police have no duty to protect citizens...

That's a bit hard to swallow. I suspect you've left out some context there. This would be news for everyone I know, and probably for police officers as well.

Tony, I gave you the case names, go read them and educate yourself about them.

Short versions, Warren, a house shared by 3 women was broken into, the 2 upstairs called the police and they came by but only did a quick drive by, the women upstairs were eventually found and were held for 12 hours and repeatedly raped by their attackers. They sued the police for not doing their job, and the departments lawyers argued that it is not actually the job of the police to provide for the safety of citizens.

Riss: woman is being stalked by her ex, she has a restraining order against him, he violates and she reports the violations but the police decline to do anything about it, eventually he attacks her with acid. Again, department sued, but argues that the police have no duty to protect a citizen, even if they have a protective order against the person.

In both cases the courts found that the police had no duty to provide protect an individual, only society as a whole by catching the criminals after the fact, and that the responsibility for self protection was only on the individual citizen.

Well, all I can say is that from a common sense point of view, that is twisted. Perhaps legalistically from a liability point of view that was the judgement, but from an everyday practical, operative point of view, the police really are there "to serve and protect".

Tony, slogans are one thing what is actually done in reality is another. Fox News has "Fair and Balanced" as a slogan, doesn't mean they are.

Of Fox News, on that I can agree. On most of the rest, I'm afraid I cannot. Nevertheless, good day and fair weather.

And before you say "to protect you" remember, the supreme court has repeatedly held that police have no duty to protect citizens(Warren V DC, Riss V New York)

First of all, neither Warren v District of Columbia nor Riss v City of New York were heard in the Supreme Court. Warren v DC went as high as the District of Columbia Court of Appeals and Riss v NYC went as high as the New York Court of Appeals.

Second, understand that both cases were civil law suits...plaintiffs seeking damages from law enforcement for their injuries from criminals from what they beleived was an inappropriate response by law enforcement.

Third, understand the language of the rulings in both cases...I'll even do you the favor of quoting the District of Columbia Superior Court's ruling on Warren v DC..."a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen."

What the courts ruled is that law enforcement has no special relationship with any one individual...and I'll quote from the ruling on Riss v NYC..."It is not a distortion to summarize the essence of the city's case here in the following language: 'Because we owe a duty to everybody, we owe it to nobody.'"

The courts ruled that law enforcement has a duty to the public in general and not to any one specific individual. I know the gun lobbies like to argue this as the police don't have a responsibility to protect you but that's not the case.

...and can you imagine if the courts had ruled differently? We'd have victims of crimes suing police departments left and right because of the actions of criminals. Is that really what you want?

Same goes for the Brady Campaign, if they said that gun laws are working to combat crime, they would lose their funding. And if they ever don't keep pushing for more restrictions on guns, no matter what has been banned to date, they will lose their funding. The "follow the money" argument cuts both ways.

I'd say Robert is correct but you forget to add Pro-Choice, Immigrants Rights Groups, Unions, etc.

Any group that doesnt want something to change that doesn't favor them complains.

FYI, the gun CEO's are working 3 shifts to fill their orders. CCI, the ammo maker is shipping 3,000,000 rounds per day and they are still on back order..Obama, the greatest gun salesman in history...LOL.

Paranoia and being Delusional,is bad for your health! Get a hobby!

Actually Janet Reno has already identified our returning veterans as a particular danger.

http://americaswatchtower.com/2009/04/14/homeland-security-classifies-returning-us-veterans-as-potential-terrorist-threat/

Now , Obama, tried to have more troops stay on in Iraq. But the Iraqi PM refused. (against the campaign pledge)

Now, he's talking to that crooked B@$*^&% Karzai. Wonder how large a "stabilization force" will stay.

Given, that they are scared of those multi-tour veterans coming home.... I would bet thousands.

designating NRA as terrorist organization would be a start

Could you provide any facts like date, location, casualties, etc. to support your claim?

You do understand some "Democrats " are concerned about a weakening Constitution , and do target shoot, and hunt...right??

Was it a Legitimate rape, err, 2nd amendment case? If it was a legitimate rape, err, gun owner, anyone shot would magically expel the bullets.

scar......

nobody is trying to take your guns away. you can still hunt. you can still target shoot. nobody is asking you to give that up. you do realize that Ducks Unlimited forbids the use of assault weapons to be used to hunt ducks. so we protect ducks and not people?

depraw: yes people like you actually do scare me. Especially when they push laws.

For your information , shotguns used for Duck Hunting , whether pump or semi-auto (yes semi-auto), must be plugged to 3 rounds. In other words , it's designed capacity may be 5 , but must have the tube plugged to except only three.

No state , I know of allows a rifle of ANY kind to be used on Ducks, much less a pistol.

And Below , someone else , says ban , who do we believe??

scar.......

thanks for proving my point.

No depraw, I always worry when people totally devoid of real knowledge on a subject, believe they should make laws on the same subject.