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As the White House considers proposals to curb gun violence, a potential re-upping of the 1990s ban on assault weapons has emerged as the most politically difficult measure for activists hoping to keep the most dangerous weapons out of criminal hands.
But, after pro-gun groups met with Vice President Joe Biden's task force on violence prevention yesterday, at least one participant came away believing that it's a fight that President Barack Obama is willing to try.
Richard Feldman, the president of the Independent Firearm Owners Association said that Biden left the group with the “clear implication” that the president would pursue an assault weapons ban in addition to other regulatory measures.
In naming possible new regulations this week, Biden mentioned universal background checks and restrictions on high-capacity magazines but did not refer specifically to an assault weapon moratorium. The president and his spokespeople have said repeatedly that the administration is in favor of an assault weapons ban.
White House officials say Vice President Joe Biden has offered to speak with families impacted by the Newtown tragedy for their input as he negotiates solutions to gun violence in the U.S. NBC's Kristen Welker reports.
Feldman told NBC News said the conversation in the closed-door meeting with gun rights groups was “wide ranging."
“We certainly talked rather extensively about civil commitment laws," he said. "The Attorney General was in the meeting. We talked about enforcement procedures against violations.”
Feldman’s take on the session seemed to be different than the National Rifle Association’s, which came out with a fairly combative statement late in the day indicating that the White House was not open to hearing the concerns of Second Amendment proponents.
“I think that it was a conversation and it wasn't a lecture,” Feldman countered.
When asked about the NRA’s characterization of the meeting, Feldman praised NRA advocate Jim Baker for forcefully voicing the concerns of the nation's most powerful gun group.
"I think the vice president, who knows Jim, listened to them," he added. "But you know, we come at this from different positions.”
The NRA has stated that they’re going to take their argument up to Capitol Hill, something that some experts say could be part of a two-path approach for the gun rights group.
“My guess is what we're going to see is a kind of two-layer game," said Don Kettl, dean of the Public Policy School at the University of Maryland. "For the NRA itself, they've made very clear so far that they're just not interested in anything that remotely involves any effort to try to reduce the availability of guns, or ammunition or any of the other pieces or anything that would restrict the ownership of guns. But behind the scenes I suspect they and some of their lobbyists are going to be working very carefully to try to find ways of at least minimizing, from their point of view, the damage.”
Kettl thinks this could be a defining moment for the group, “Deep down this is one of those line-in-the-sand kind of issues that will be the make or break for the NRA's power. And I suspect we are in the middle of a defining debate in the pubic right now about the role of guns in American society.”
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Tricky?
Felony to own, buy or sell an assault weapon or high capacity ammo magazine.
No tricky. Just take the psychopaths by the balls and run with 'em.
It seems like there will be no ban on assault type weapons,but stricter background checks and the elimination of large magazines will happen. It's evident that some people who are legal to buy guns, buy them and then sell them to people who have criminal records. Stricter regulations on weapon sales need to be inacted. If some gun nut is inconvenienced too bad. Even one life saved is worth it.
but Tony our president's a busy enough man as it is. He can't be spending more time and paperwork when gunrunning assault weapons to Mexico! He's got vacations to take, golf outings galore!
Yeah, god knows the leader of the free world should get a day off. Dealing with the freakshow that is the right wing in this country every day earns him every second. Let me know when he comes close to your boy Georgie.
You know a gun nut is losing an argument when all he spews is the 2nd Admendment constantly. Nothing can interfere in their fantasy gun world. Can't interfere in Rambos obsession with guns. That's his life,and number one priority. Guns trump human lives in Rambos world. Plus Rambo truly believes in government conspiracies,which is a red flag for mental illness.
What's to argue? The 2nd Amendment is a fact of constitutional law and part of what helped insure American freedoms. It's the liberals trying to live in a gun free utopia full of peace and mind-altering drugs for all. That's a recipe for being taken over...
Don't try logic on Tony, it will not work. He went to one of those union run re-education camps we call public schools.
What's funny is that these government conspiracy wackos truly think their arsenal can ever stop the government. Your puny weapons would be worthless if your paranoid delusions ever came true. You would be obliterated!
Tony you're right just ask the Jews in Hitler's Germany and any Capitolist in Stalin's Russia. But then again... those brave Jews in the Warsaw Getto upraising my not have won, but they sure had a good time killing nazis on their way out! Guess I'll keep my guns, lib....you keep your pink purse and your fresbee.
You have defined exactly the reason that the weapons owned by a lawfully armed citizenry should not be limited in any way. Obama wants citizens to be limited to "puny weapons."
@tony
Obama's military is outnumbered by the American citizens 150:1. I'd bet the vast majority of the military would defy orders to fight the citizenry anyway.
Once a few gun confiscating government agents are dead on the citizen's door steps, they'd think again.
Are you willing to die to take my gun?
What makes you think the military would side with a person like Obama against citizens? Polling numbers in the last election showed less than 30% support.
A bunch of half naked rice farmers bloodied the military's nose in Nam and a bunch of goat herders are doing it right now in Afghan. Yeah Odumbo's going to take your guns away by force. LOL
Ask the rebels in Syria or in Afghanistan how effective these arms are against heavy weapons.
With cunning, planning and solidarity you can achieve much with very little.
Better yet, ask Assad.
I like that, Barak "Assad" Obama
What Constitutes an 'Assault' Rifle?
Merriam-Webster Dictonary defines "assault rifle" as "any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles with large capacity magazines designed for military use." The keywords here are "designed for military use."
If that definition doesn't quite cut it for you, here's how David Kopel (via the Washington Examiner) describes it in an article in the "Journal of Contemporary Law" based on a definition from the Department of Defense (emphasis added):
As the United States Defense Department's Defense Intelligence Agency book Small Arms Identification and Operation Guide explains, "assault rifles" are "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachine gun and rifle cartridges."[21] In other words, assault rifles are battlefield rifles which can fire automatically.[22]
Weapons capable of fully automatic fire, including assault rifles, have been regulated heavily in the United States since the National Firearms Act of 1934.[23] Taking possession of such weapons requires paying a $200 federal transfer tax and submitting to an FBI background check, including ten-print fingerprints.[24]
Many civilians have purchased semiautomatic-only rifles that look like military assault rifles. These civilian rifles are, unlike actual assault rifles, incapable of automatic fire.
Based on these two definitions, since AR-15 is designed for civilian use, it therefore doesn't fit with the definition of an "assault" weapon. This then begs the question why the association is being made in the first place.
"It was the Left who needed a term to call them," Beck said on radio Thursday. "They are trying to make you think …'an AR-15, nobody needs that.' An AR-15 is just a rifle, unless it has a fully automatic switch on it and then it becomes a machine gun — and you can't buy that."
(Editor's note: machine guns, or automatic weapons, are reserved for the military but they can be purchased for a relatively high cost after a very lengthy background check and licensing procedure. See David Kopel's definition we included above.)
"It's a way to demonize something for a political agenda and misconstrue [the guns] and the public on the Second Amendment," Alwood said.
Alwood, who the day he spoke with TheBlaze was traveling around helping police departments with their rifles, pointed out that all arguments for further gun control regulations or bans seem to go back the question "what would you possibly need this for?" Or rather, why would someone need the civilian equivalent to a military firearm?
Alwood said many gun control advocates would tie this question to hunting. In other words, why would a hunter need such a firearm? As the governor of New York Anthony Coumo said his State of the State address this week, "no one hunts with an assault rifle." To which Alwood would respond, 1) there are practical applications in hunting with a so-called assault rifle and, 2) "the Second Amendment wasn't designed for hunting," an association which he thinks started being made in the 1980s.
"We need these rifles because the government has them," Alwood explained.
He stopped there to say he realizes this is where gun enthusiasts and riflemen are made out to seem like anti-government "whack jobs" by the media, but that's just not true.
"I don't want people to think of me as anti-government. Most gun owners are not anti-government," Alwood said.
He added that the Founding Fathers drafted the Second Amendment with protection of the citizens and their freedoms in mind.
"[Without the Second Amendment] there is no way to resist the government, voiding all other amendments," Alwood said. "Why should [the government] continue to give you your freedom of speech if there is no one to stop them. It's the only safeguard we have to protect us from a tyrannical government. …Look at all countries in trouble with dictators, they have absolute gun bans."
The conservative publication Townhall recently called out two countries with a similar sentiment to this in mind:
Neither the Venezuelan nor Chinese governments have particularly good track records when it comes to human rights. By maintaining a government monopoly on guns, both can ensure that further abuses are carried out with less protests from the citizenry. Overall, it is sad to see two dictatorial governments making it easier to abuse their citizens as they please while also squelching the possibility for resistance.
There are two prerequisites for turning a free country into a dictatorship: #1) Control the flow of information; #2) Disarm the people.
I don't think it is coincidence that protections against these are #1 and #2 in the Bill of Rights.
Ever notice these gun nuts are so very frightened,the more frightened they are the more guns they have. And YES if you believe in government conspiracies your have mental issues,sometime serious ones. Sane gun owners NEVER believe in government conspiracies. The good news there is medication for your extreme paranoia and delusions. Try it,it might help. Of course if kissing and hugging your guns work,go with it.
"If you believe in government conspiracies you have mental issues"
---- Paul Joseph Goebbels, Reich Minister of Propaganda
Tony. I have 3 good friends that are in SWAT, a Seal, and one in DoD. Rest assured that if the government orders them to attack civilians or sequester peoples guns for any reason, they would not execute such as order as it would be against the constitution that they are sworn to defend. The conspiracy I imagine that armed conservatives fear is that of Liberal governments that don't value the Constitution and don't care about abiding by Constitutional laws. Unfortunately, Obamacare is already an example of the Liberal government not caring about what the Constitution says. This battle against guns is simply another Liberal attack on the Constitution.
And once again, you prove everytime you post you are not a vet.
The only battle Tony has fought is the one with the multiple voices in his head. After reading his posts day after day it is quite obvious he is delusional.
President Bill Cinton was for gun control too...... he wasn't very much afraid of guns like most liberals like Tony and Mayor Bloomers of NYC are. In fact, Bill Clinton was afraid....really TERRIFIED of only one gun in his entire life!! and that gun was:
(The M-16 he was going to be issued if he had the balls to serve his Country in Vietnam)
If the mental health laws were changed many of these"legal" gun owners would be in a rubber room in four point! And to think the wackiest ones have the most weapons!
Tony,
If most gun owners were locked up, you & your kind would starve to death. Who would pay for all that Gubamint Cheese?
Tony,
How many gun owners do you personally know?
Tony is nothing but an inflammatory troll with nothing but hatred, vile and lies to spew, and can't handle a fact based debate.
Click "[ ! ]" over on the right....
Click "Ignore This Troll".
champagnesabre,
Please excuse this. He's not a troll, he's a dik
And he is not a vet.
Well the NRA has a fight on their hands now. Dogs Against Assault Rifles (DAAR) are rallying today after a cop in New Hampshire shot and killed a neighbor's family pet that strayed into his yard. Weapon of choice ~~~ AR-15!! In that there are about as many dogs as firearms in the US, their political impact is sure to be felt. ASPCA and local kennel operators are being lobbied to join the protest. Feline counterparts are expected to throw in with the canine movement. Animal rights spokespeople are saying if dogs are taken out, its just a matter of time before all animals are threatened. That is being characterized as a parallel to the NRA's claim that if assault rifles are confiscated, its only a matter of time before efforts to eliminate all guns will be seen.
Jim in Texas
Most dogs are Lefturds anyway. I know both of my dogs are. I can tell because they piss on the floor & lick their butts.
Well you know how it is with dogs, Kevin ~ they tend to take on the habits of their masters. Thanks for sharing that bit of personal information with us.
Kevin - there is lots of information on the Internet about dog training. If you are not intelligent enough to understand it, you could hire a dog trainer. No need to keep cleaning up the piss on the floor. My dog is almost 9 years old and has never pissed on the floor. Ever!
Went out Tues. and bought a Mossberg semi auto 12 guage and lots of shells, birdshot, buck shot and in between. Also bought 2 525 round boxes of .22 ammo for my Ruger semi auto rifle. Don't like it? Bite me.
I am a law abidng American with no criminal record, no mental health issues. I work 50 plus hours a week and pay my taxes. I can't even remember the last time I got a speeding ticket. Why should I not be allowed to own an AR15?.
In a survey of 1,000 insane people, not one of them thought that they were crazy. But every one of them thought that the other 999 were crazy.
If I owned a gun store I would put up many posters saying the G-man is coming to take your guns,sales would skyrocket! The gun nuts would come running in a lightning speed to buy more guns! So scared! So paranoid!
Actually, Obama is the best gun salesman in American history.....
using that logic one would think tony works for Trojan condums. He's a perfect poster boy for birth control
Texas has more gun shops then Walmarts,some make a Super Walmart look minis-cue.
And Texans have more guns that gun shops and Walmart's combined. Hell, I've got seven and two of them are scoped. I'm a bit short on grenade launchers and Claymore's. Guess I'll have to work on that.
Jim get an SKS YUGO.
Comes with an integral bayonet, a grenade launcher AND it's not an assault rifle.
Republicans = Racism = Homophobia = Xenophobia = Militarism = Totalitarianism = Fascism = Guns = Evil
Obama = Acceptance = Equality = Tolerance = Compassion = Peace = Coexistence = Godsend
Any Questions ?
No questions. It is quite apparent that you're delusional.
JFD -
Seek help, you are mentally disturbed and your paranoia is showing.
My dogs only attack Rightwingers and Teabaggers,they can smell them people a mile away. My Doberman says they taste bad and have a putrid smell.
Tony Warvet's dogs: Reason #562 why free citizens need to be armed.
Tony. Be glad you hate guns. Because, based on your vitriol and uneducated rants against your fellow conservative Americans, you would fail any psych test to become a responsible gun owner.
You would think liberals would be nicer to conservatives if they really knew how well armed conservatives are. But Liberals are such narcissists, they just can't comprehend it.
Tony, put down the pop-tarts and Mountain Dew, and back away from the computer slowly.
You are going to break a fingernail.
Leave your mom's basement, and go outside and experience the real world.
I know some good medication that works Kannin. Funny how the Nazis loved their guns and had so many of them,must be a connection between them and the typical gun nut! Plus the typical gun nut is usually a racist,hates gays and loves Vienersnitzle!
Did prohibiting Jews from owning firearms in Nazi Germany prevent mass murder? The feeling among good Aryans like you was that Jews didn't need guns because they had the Gestapo to protect them.
Studies have proven that some gun nuts buy large weapons to make up for having a small penis.
Why do all you anti-guns nuts have such an infatuation with penis?
Really Tony? So the millions of women gun owners have small penises? How fascinating. When did that happen?
I guess Tony is such an expert on penises because he spends all of his free time on his knees inspecting them...LOL
Yes this "feeling" good Aryan loves locks and bagels if you must know. I like Jewish Rye bread too. Go back to your bunker Adolf.
"locks" ... really?
Pissant Obummer's new jobs program- Gun Grabbing Goon grade 17 Southern States Tier 1. Starting salary $47,500. Medical and Life Insurance included. Job description- while wearing black ninja pajamas, mask and full body armor will go house to house in West Virginia, Arkansa and Texas confiscating firearms. Retirement is within 48 hours at Arlinton Cemetary.
And I thought all of Hitlers descendants were dead? Apparently I was wrong!
You're wrong about everything. What else is new.
Hey Jethro I own guns and I was just passing on pertinent information to the gun nuts with penile issues. I try and help these people out as they desperately need it!
Tonywarvet. You sound too unstable to be a responsible gun owner. Your vitriol is oozing out of every pore.
@ Tony
Tony is such an expert on penises because he spends all of his free time on his knees inspecting them...LOL
Tony Warvet finally a job that meets your talents. Gun Grabbing Goon grade 17 could put an end to your 20 year employment drought.
No Odumbo, Andy Homo and Bloombucks you can't have my guns.
I knew this one gun nut who thought the more guns he had,the higher his IQ would be. I told Jethro he would have to buy a million more guns minimum. Last I knew Jethro was at a gun shop.
Tony Warvet is on this vine 24/7. Needs a special chair for his ever expanding fat ass. Couldn't vote for his God Pissant Ostumbler as his fat butt wouldn't fit out the door.
Pissant Ostumbler invited the Pistol, Rifle and Ammunition Manufacturers Association to the White House. He wants his fair share. After all he is the greatest gun salesman in recorded human history.