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As the White House considers proposals to curb gun violence, a potential re-upping of the 1990s ban on assault weapons has emerged as the most politically difficult measure for activists hoping to keep the most dangerous weapons out of criminal hands.
But, after pro-gun groups met with Vice President Joe Biden's task force on violence prevention yesterday, at least one participant came away believing that it's a fight that President Barack Obama is willing to try.
Richard Feldman, the president of the Independent Firearm Owners Association said that Biden left the group with the “clear implication” that the president would pursue an assault weapons ban in addition to other regulatory measures.
In naming possible new regulations this week, Biden mentioned universal background checks and restrictions on high-capacity magazines but did not refer specifically to an assault weapon moratorium. The president and his spokespeople have said repeatedly that the administration is in favor of an assault weapons ban.
White House officials say Vice President Joe Biden has offered to speak with families impacted by the Newtown tragedy for their input as he negotiates solutions to gun violence in the U.S. NBC's Kristen Welker reports.
Feldman told NBC News said the conversation in the closed-door meeting with gun rights groups was “wide ranging."
“We certainly talked rather extensively about civil commitment laws," he said. "The Attorney General was in the meeting. We talked about enforcement procedures against violations.”
Feldman’s take on the session seemed to be different than the National Rifle Association’s, which came out with a fairly combative statement late in the day indicating that the White House was not open to hearing the concerns of Second Amendment proponents.
“I think that it was a conversation and it wasn't a lecture,” Feldman countered.
When asked about the NRA’s characterization of the meeting, Feldman praised NRA advocate Jim Baker for forcefully voicing the concerns of the nation's most powerful gun group.
"I think the vice president, who knows Jim, listened to them," he added. "But you know, we come at this from different positions.”
The NRA has stated that they’re going to take their argument up to Capitol Hill, something that some experts say could be part of a two-path approach for the gun rights group.
“My guess is what we're going to see is a kind of two-layer game," said Don Kettl, dean of the Public Policy School at the University of Maryland. "For the NRA itself, they've made very clear so far that they're just not interested in anything that remotely involves any effort to try to reduce the availability of guns, or ammunition or any of the other pieces or anything that would restrict the ownership of guns. But behind the scenes I suspect they and some of their lobbyists are going to be working very carefully to try to find ways of at least minimizing, from their point of view, the damage.”
Kettl thinks this could be a defining moment for the group, “Deep down this is one of those line-in-the-sand kind of issues that will be the make or break for the NRA's power. And I suspect we are in the middle of a defining debate in the pubic right now about the role of guns in American society.”
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If " Assault Weapons " are so dangerous than why are so few people killed by them ????????
More People are killed with shotguns so should we have a Assualt Shotgun Ban?
Who came up with the idiotic notion that an "Assault Weapon" was defined as any semi-automatic weapon with a multi-round magazine?
@kann
"Who came up with the idiotic notion that an "Assault Weapon" was defined as any semi-automatic weapon with a multi-round magazine"
Gun grabbing, hoplophobe, propagandist, lying, leftists.
Hey Chuck Todd, would you please tell Biden and Obama that MkUltra's ultra secret psychic visual neuropathenogenic telekinesis operations is what is promoting the school shootings and nation wide mass murder suicide so therefore they should not put any census on video games.
@TB-2354489 First off how does your gun tax plan stop gun violence??? Secondly, what about the criminal or criminally insane person who buys a gun illegally off the street or even off the Deep Web?? How does gun control stop the sale and use of illegal guns. If you have the knowledge and the drive, you can log onto the hidden web, buy any gun you want, anonymously with Bitcoins, and have it shipped to you from many different sources in the world! Funny to think the average American has no idea the Deep Web exists or worse thinks it is a urban legend.
it will be interesting to see the complaining when the government starts implementing civil commitment and locking up people they deem mentally ill. when mandatory incarcerations from gun violations kick in people from the urban areas will complain about being disproportionally effected. maybe the politicians on both sides could set an example by stopping officers with assault rifles from guarding them and their families and rely on 911 like the rest of have to do
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different
results." (Brown, 1983).
Which gun bans have ever actually been effective? I haven't found any evidence to support a gun ban other than in popularity amongst those uneducated regarding firearms?
Clinton's ban? No significant change in crime. Look it up!! You're on the net. Note what happened to crime when it expired.
If gun controls work, explain the high crime in Washington DC (not affiliated with Congress! )? Chicago? How about California? Has it worked in any of those places? Anyone up for a stroll through downtown DC tonight at about 1AM? Especially those dark streets. You'll be safe because DC has some of the strictest gun controls. Anyone?
How many murders happened in Chicago in 2012? Yet IL has some of the tightest gun laws.
The absurdity of this witch hunt of guns is astounding.
Who really adheres to gun laws? Us law abiding people. It will only be a nuisance and restriction of real people, not the criminals and murderers.
Those calling for bans don't understand the underlying causes and issues. They don't understand firearms. Most have never shot a firearm. Most are AFRAID of firearms. Most can't tell the difference between a clip and a magazine.
This is such a distraction to real issues like the economy.
More people are killed annually with hammers than rifles that are to be banned.
No gun ban has ever been successful. NYC has had gun bans in place since the 1930's and we know how ell that works.
Biden is going to have his recommendations in on Tuesday? I'm glad he's taking the time to give considerable thought to the issue. More likely his "recommendations" were already written up before his chat sessions.
The fact is that the second amendment is there specifically to protect assault weapons. At the time of the Revolution, the government took the people's assault weapons (muskets), but let them keep their hunting rifles. The amendment reads "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." (The Militia, by the way...even under current US statute...is every able-bodied adult male, not the military.) The whole purpose of the second amendment is so the people can be armed to protect the nation from corrupt governments foreign and domestic.
It just to rush through whatever bans and restrictions they can. It has been the wet dream of the Democratic Party and their allies for over 40 years to produce such onerous restrictions on gun that private ownership is for all purposes impossible.
Democrats pushed California Proposition 15 was on the November 2, 1982 ballot in California, where it was defeated 63% to 37%.
Proposition 15 would have required owners of handguns to register them with the Department of Justice on or before November 2, 1983. It would have restricted the number of handguns in California by:
his brought out so many voters that many Democrats lost otherwise safe elections and party leaders were reluctant to ever bring a controversial ballot measure again during an electin year.
Democrats tried again with Washington Initiative 676, also known as the Handgun Trigger Locks Initiative, was on the November 4, 1997 election ballot in Washington as an Initiative to the People, where it was defeated 71% to 29%.
The question asked on the ballot was, "Shall the transfer of handguns without trigger-locking devices be prohibited and persons possessing or acquiring a handgun be required to obtain a handgun safety license?"
I-676 attracted national attention because, if it had passed, it would have imposed one of the toughest gun safety laws in the nation.[1]
I-676 would have required;
Although I-676 suffered a crushing defeat, the New York Times said three weeks before the election that polls showed it winning "by a wide margin".[1]
Homicides by Weapon Type
Handgun Other
gun Knife Blunt
object Other
weapon
1976
8,651
3,328
3,343
912
2,546
1977
8,563
3,391
3,648
900
2,618
1978
8,879
3,569
3,685
937
2,490
1979
9,858
3,732
4,121
1,039
2,710
1980
10,552
3,834
4,439
1,153
3,061
1981
10,324
3,740
4,364
1,166
2,927
1982
9,137
3,501
4,383
1,032
2,957
1983
8,472
2,794
4,214
1,098
2,731
1984
8,183
2,835
3,956
1,090
2,626
1985
8,165
2,973
3,996
1,051
2,794
1986
9,054
3,126
4,235
1,176
3,018
1987
8,781
3,094
4,076
1,169
2,980
1988
9,375
3,162
3,978
1,296
2,869
1989
10,225
3,197
3,923
1,279
2,877
1990
11,677
3,395
4,077
1,254
3,037
1991
13,101
3,277
3,909
1,252
3,161
1992
13,158
3,043
3,447
1,088
3,024
1993
13,981
3,094
3,140
1,082
3,233
1994
13,496
2,840
2,960
963
3,071
1995
12,050
2,679
2,731
981
3,169
1996
10,731
2,533
2,691
917
2,777
1997
9,705
2,631
2,363
833
2,678
1998
8,844
2,168
2,257
896
2,805
1999
7,943
2,174
2,042
902
2,461
2000
7,985
2,218
2,099
727
2,556
2001
7,900
2,239
2,090
776
3,032
2002
8,286
2,538
2,018
773
2,588
2003
8,830
2,223
2,085
745
2,645
2004
8,304
2,357
2,133
759
2,595
2005
8,478
2,868
2,147
671
2,528
and your point is???
The graph posted incorrectly, my point is handguns kill more each year than shotguns and all rifles combined! Knives kill more each year than shotguns and rifles combined; and in many years blunt objects kill more than shotguns and rifles combined! But here we all are debating gun control on "Assault" style rifles which kill on average less than 700 people in the US annually. This is about the powers that be using a tragedy to push their agenda.
got it...
Coddle the criminals, make excuses for bad behavior, and pillory the law-abiding gun owner. Message to libs... Try and take away the guns.
Why is it so tricky for the White House? Will it inhibit Obama's illegal assualt weapons sales to his Mexican drug lord and criminal friends south of the border??
Nutcases will always commit horrible crimes. Those crimes are trivial though and an acceptable risk to society in comparison with the crimes that can be committed against a helpless populace by its own government. The really big massacres, where victims are murdered in the millions, are committed by totalitarian regimes against their own citizens: Stalin, Hitler, Mao. Those would have been prevented by an armed citizenry, at a cost in human life a million times smaller.
The recent mass murders have sparked outcries for restricting the sales of guns and other anti-gun measures. But guns are not the problem. The problem lies in the decline of the morals in this country. Take some time and read the speech below given by Darrell Scott, father of Rachel Scott to the subcommittee of the House Judicial Committee. Rachel was one of the students murdered at Columbine High School.
COLUMBINE STUDENT'S FATHER 12 YEARS LATER!
Guess our national leaders didn't expect this. On Thursday, Darrell Scott,
the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School
shootings in Littleton , Colorado , was invited to address the House
Judiciary Committee's subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders
during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.
They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well.
It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician,
every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These
courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and
deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice
crying in the wilderness . . . the following is a portion of the
transcript:
"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good and evil in the
hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds
of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the
deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must
not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.
"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel
out in the field. The villain was not the club he used . . . Neither was
it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and
the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.
"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how
quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a
member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not
here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they
are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that
they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with
Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent
I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was
a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real
blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame
lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a
poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.
Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!
"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and
spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we
create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak
havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for
most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as
theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us
as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the
doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as
Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat
such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that
contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not
need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by
metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months
planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own
hearts.
"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his
two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in
school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge
every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on
April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our
schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain.
Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for
legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To
those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a
sincere challenge . . . Dare to examine your own heart before casting the
first stone!
My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country
will not allow that to happen!"
-- Darrell Scott
The problem with this country is that we have become a land of people who caters too much and too often to minority. We can't pray in school any longer because of the anti-faith crusade, we are seeing Christmas disappear right before our eyes. We are seeing courts of law being instructed to remove the 10 Commandments. We are a people who are now engulfed in being politically correct because we are scared we will offend a small group of people or hurt their feelings.
I fully expect that this post will get a number of negative responses. I really don't care. Instead of me responding to each of those responses individually, I'll give one response now.... Your are the very people who are driving the morals of this country into the sewer. It is because of people like you that we are seeing the very foundation upon which this great country was built to begin to crumble. You are the minority. Keep your beliefs and feelings to yourself. The majority does not want your negative influences. We love this country because of the beliefs it was founded on, not because of the direction it is headed.
I believe a majority of you will agree with me. Those of you who do agree with me, begin to speak out. Let's end the errosion of this country's values at the hands of few.
All Biden et al have done is dramatically increase the sales of "assault" rifles. Most gun stores across the country are sold out and selling every new shipment they get the day it arrives.
If people don't agree with "the right to keep and bear" firearms that's in the Constitution, amend it. The process is straightforward and has been done many times, including as recently as 1992. Otherwise, shut up.
If your going to talk about an "Assault Weapons" ban then define the exact meaning of "Assault Weapon".
How about doing an article about cars?
"Vehicle ban remains politicaly tricky"?
Hypocrite, elitist, do as I say not as I do, ruling class, leftist extremist liberal...... Barack Hussain Obama.
Mmmmm, mmmm, mmmm!
"Obama signs law giving himself, Bush lifetime Secret Service guard"
yahoo dot com/blogs/ticket/obama-signs-law-giving-himself-bush-lifetime-secret-184305122--politics.html
"Obama Opposed Gun Ban Exception to Defend One's Home"
whitehousedossier dot com/2013/01/11/obama-opposed-gun-ban-exception-defend-home/
All heil Obama.
To be honest if somebody or a small group wanted to kill a current or past president there is little the Secret Service could do to save them. Fortunately, and unlike in other countries, we resort to that type of violence as a last resort.
@Joe
It's not about Obama protecting himself, he deserves and needs that protection.
The problem is Obama denying us the ability to protect ourselves.
Did prohibiting Jews from owning firearms in Nazi Germany prevent mass murder? The feeling among good Aryans was that Jews didn't need guns because they had the Gestapo to protect them.
The American Indians can verify that after they take away your guns, they haul you away to concentration camps in trains.
American Indians had very few guns. The whites had the guns and the power; hence, the Native American lost.
you would have gotten an argument on that statement from Custer.
It will be "politically tricky" for the president when he starts a civil war that rips the nation asunder.
Funny you should say that. I was reading my mother's High School history book from the 1930's and in the chapters leading up to the Civil War they described a political climate very similar to what we have now.
Yes, I have noticed that as well.
When does the beginning issue of, "Parental
Failure" enter these arguments as a major [behavioral mis-training or
training process] if not totally contributing factor to violence in our
society? We are all aware of the issuesof politico's attempting to gain as
much political traction on the backs of
these tragedies, the mental health issues and H[B]ollywood corrupting these
early learners probably much more than school!
However it is the "Parent's" who have had the personal
responsibility by creating these children and then expect society at random to
teach them to survive in the world. It is the parent who knows if their child is
mentally ill, on drugs, emulating
video games, movies of extreme violence, plotting to kill their bullies in life
and other developmental problems along the way.
Why has this aspect of the issue been ignored when we all know in
neighborhoods when a child is in distress?
We can communicate our concerns to the parent but it is still the
parent's responsibility to search out the proper assistance. Freedom is the acceptance of responsibility
for the consequences and rewards of one's own choice and this can be re-enforced
by society by corporal punishment [sit in the hall, go to the principle's
office and discuss the issue with him,] but the parent must also be involved as
the primary problem solver! If the
parent fails at this the out-come as an adult for these children are usually
pre-destined to include, drug's, peer's who become false leader's into trouble,
violence and deeper mental health issues.
Parent's definitely need to learn the true value's of society which could
include but not be limited to; Respect for self and other's, Courage to seek
assistance when needed and be there for other's who need it, empathy for
other's who don't know, Trust when earned and many other's!
The only gun conrol laws I would endorse would be to:
1. to prohibit our President and his Attorney General from selling illegal assault weapons to Mexican drug lords and mental incompetents like Diane Feinstein and Rosie O'Donnell.
2. to confiscate Joe Bidens Red Rider repeating BB rifle before the moron shoots his eye out.
If any individual is determined enough to find and buy an Assult Weapon? They will! No Gun Control Law will stop this. if any individual has the money too buy Assult Weapons? They will! If one individual has the product. If there is an individual that has the money to buy it? They will sell it too make a quick profit. The gun sellers at Gun Shows want to make a quick profit, and many only see dollar signs.Tougher gun legislation is too difficult to enforce, and insane individuals will always find ways around the law. Who will be defined as having a Behavioral Disorder? Many funds to prevent or heal Mental Illness. How will background checks be done? If many mentally ill individuals are never diagnosed correctly or even at all? In a Free Market Economy. It is the individual with the most money that can buy any product they want. All this gun control talk is impractical, difficcult too enforce, and money talks in the end. It would be nice to think that Gun Control Laws will work. The economic and poltical realities suggest that this will never happen. Vice President Biden can talk until hell freezes over. Gun Builders have too much money invested in this Teabegger Congress. President Obama can try to use his Executive Powers only to a point on the Gun Control Issues. Give me my guns or give me death!! How much death have we seen so far fellow citizens? Unfortunately too much already.
The framers of the Constitution were smart enough to realize that a well-armed citizenry would permit madmen to murder innocents by the handful. But they knew that an un-armed citizenry would permit madmen to murder innocents by the millions. They wisely chose to protect our country from the far greater evil.
You speak of too much death. well, the really big massacres, where victims are murdered in the millions, are committed by totalitarian regimes against their own citizens: Stalin, Hitler, Mao. Those would have been prevented by an armed citizenry, at a cost in human life a million times smaller. Too much death? Tens of millions of unarmed, innocent civilians is too much death!
Libs... tell where i'm wrong.... If putting signs around Schools that declare them "NO GUN ZONES" makes so much sense to you... Why didn't Hi--LIAR--Y Clintclown place them around our Embassy compound in Benghazi, Libya?
Think of those four people she sould have prevented from getting killed! If she would have only posted those signs!!!
The United States stopped bombs and weapons going on to airplanes...........why can we not do the same thing in schools?
FYI, they didn't really stop guns. They still trickle through the security checkpoints.
FYI..........your key word is "trickle"...........but it still worked.
GCCal
Because some don't want our kids around armed guards. They think that taking guns away from law abiding citizens will keep the kids safe. You can take it to the bank that after banning these guns ( rifles & most semi-auto 9mm pistols) these types of things will still happen & the ones that didn't want guards will still be scratching their ass's trying to figure out what rights to take away from us next.
GCCAL
tell you what did work... CAN YOU SAY SKY MARSHALS??????
bob.................you are correct along with better security at the front door.
Kevin..........spot on.
Define an "assault weapon". My definition is a weapon that fires on full auto. Anything more than that is just bs. If you ban all semi autos, you ban most weapons out there. That leaves us revolvers, bolt and lever action rifles. Once again, bs.
onermailliw
That IS what most of us consider an assualt rifle. Lefturds think a BB gun is a killing machine.
Offer a soldier engaged in an actual assault - like the one at bin Laden's compound - an "assault rifle," as defined by Biden, and he would figure that you were totally insane.
The shooter at Taft California High School yesterday used a shotgun. Seems he was bullied.
Well i'll bet no ones picking on him now!!
Here is what I find curious. "Assault weapon" is all cosmetics. You can find normal hunting rifles that are roughly the same overall length and have roughly the same barrel length that shoot the exact same round as these so called "assault weapons". So they are not more powerful. And both the hunting rifle and the "assault" rifle fire at the same rate. One round each time you pull the trigger. Both are semi automatics.
It is only true military weapons that offer two additional firing settings. A three shot burst with the pull of the trigger or full automatic where all the rounds in the rifle will be fed and fired if the trigger is held down.
Congress and the White House are talking looks not function.
Take it another way. You could take a normal car designed and meant to be driven on the street. But that same car shape and name could be used on a race car. Not legal to be driven on the street and meant only for racing. But you could take that street legal car, dress it up with spoilers, flares, wings, lower the suspension, put wider tires on it, etc. In other words make it LOOK like a race car. But if you didn't change the engine and gearing (round caliber and rate of fire) it is in essence still that factory street legal car. It won't go faster or be more powerful.
This is what is being discussed with wanting to ban assault rifles. Looks.
Now the issue of how many rounds a firearm can hold is an entirely different question. Some normal guns (not "assault style") can hold 13 rounds so for the sake of argument I will discuss capacity of 15 rounds or above. Does anyone need more than that at one time without having to reload? I don't think so.
But there is also this to point out. It takes just seconds to reload. The unarmed person that fell to the ground in fear as the criminal started shooting is likely to still stay on the ground or run away during the 4 or 5 seconds it takes to reload. But the armed would be victim can be prepared to fight back in those 4 or 5 seconds that the criminal is reloading.
A criminal will always find a weapon. Even if all of them were banned. These mass shootings occur where people who obey the laws, receive training and are issued a license or permit by the government are not allowed to have their firearms with them.
And here is a sober fact. The worst school massacre in the United States did not happen recently. It happened in 1927. The man who did it wasn't young. He was 55 years old. He didn't keep to himself. He was known and served on both school and city positions. It wasn't a spur of the moment act. He planned it for a whole year. He did not use a gun to kill the kids. He used explosives. And luckily the other half of the explosives under the other wing of the school didn't go off.
Check out the Bath, Michigan school killing.
"The beauty of the 2ND Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
Thomas Jefferson
Who is "they" ~ and where is there any evidence that "they" are trying to "take it?" This is a manufactured reasoning to bolster a baseless concern for abolishing the 2nd Amendment's guarantees pertaining to "arms" will never happen. It cannot be invalidated by a court, executive order, or any other entity and the people of the United States will never ratify its repeal. I think the Thomas Jefferson you reference is a good ol' Southern boy with a penchant for NASCAR races and Budweiser ~ not the Jefferson of our founding days.