E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
A Georgia Republican congressman said that former Missouri Senate candidate Todd Akin, R, was "partly right" in asserting that victims of "legitimate rape" rarely become pregnant.
Rep. Phil Gingrey, R-Ga., a former obstetrician-gynecologist, said at a town hall meeting that Akin was “partly right” in his controversial suggestion, which was widely cited as a factor in his loss to Missouri Sen. Claire McCaskill, D, this past November.
Gingrey said, according to the Marietta Daily Journal:
“And in Missouri, Todd Akin … was asked by a local news source about rape and he said, ‘Look, in a legitimate rape situation’ — and what he meant by legitimate rape was just look, someone can say I was raped: a scared-to-death 15-year-old that becomes impregnated by her boyfriend and then has to tell her parents, that’s pretty tough and might on some occasion say, ‘Hey, I was raped.’ That’s what he meant when he said legitimate rape versus non-legitimate rape. I don’t find anything so horrible about that. But then he went on and said that in a situation of rape, of a legitimate rape, a woman’s body has a way of shutting down so the pregnancy would not occur. He’s partly right on that.”
[...]
“And I’ve delivered lots of babies, and I know about these things. It is true. We tell infertile couples all the time that are having trouble conceiving because of the woman not ovulating, ‘Just relax. Drink a glass of wine. And don’t be so tense and uptight because all that adrenaline can cause you not to ovulate.’ So he was partially right wasn’t he? But the fact that a woman may have already ovulated 12 hours before she is raped, you’re not going to prevent a pregnancy there by a woman’s body shutting anything down because the horse has already left the barn, so to speak. And yet the media took that and tore it apart.”
Akin originally told KTVI-TV in August: “First of all, from what I understand from doctors, [pregnancy from rape] is really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.”
Republicans quickly distanced themselves from Akin, urging him to end his bid for Senate to allow another GOP candidate to step forward. Mitt Romney, then the party’s presidential nominee, publicly said that Akin should end his campaign.
However, Akin, a congressman, resisted the calls for him to drop out, giving Democrats fodder to paint Republicans as out-of-touch with women voters. Another GOP Senate candidate, Indiana’s Richard Mourdock, also gave fodder to Democrats when he suggested that pregnancies by rape were “something God intended.” (Mourdock, like Akin, lost a Senate race on which Republicans had been counting to win.)
Gingrey addressed the cost of those controversies before making his own assessment of the science behind Akin’s remarks:
“Part of the reason the Dems still control the Senate is because of comments made in Missouri by Todd Akin and Indiana by Mourdock were considered a little bit over the top ... Mourdock basically said ‘Look, if there is conception in the aftermath of a rape, that’s still a child, and it’s a child of God, essentially.’ Now, in Indiana, that cost him the election.”
Leave a Comment:
UGH
This guy can't be serious because he's a GOPer. Right libbies?
At least MSNBC see the importance of keeping this topic alive. But I don't.
MSNBC isn't keeping the topic alive, it's the GOP pigs who can't stop making ignorant statements about rape and womens' bodies that are keeping it alive.
OMG!
These right wing idiots just don't know when to shut the hell up!
The scariest part is, this moron is an actual doctor...
UGH! Is right, Ames!
Oh My Freaking Gawd, this doctor has got to be a quake. Check his license so that whole thing can be shut down!!!
I see the TPGOP is already working on the Platform for 2016. Still debating Legitimate Rape. What a joke. Should really help them shrink their base some more.
What's 2 times zero?
This GOP guy and Akin = zero
What is illegitimate rape?
Being partly right only means that you are mostly wrong.
Gotta love these good ol' boys; tone deaf to the bitter end. Anybody still wonder why the Republicans are still in trouble?.....
This Clown should resign from Congress and should never be allowed to practice medicine again.
These are the types of GOP clowns that get elected in Georgia
You know, seriously, these stone age *ssh*les get elected by other stone age *ssh*les who listen to this BS. The selective use of science occurs on both sides of the aisle. But in the case of rape, it is disgusting and inexcusable. Send this guy to Iran. It is where he'd find like minded people.
These right wing idiots just don't know when to shut the hell up!
Feisty, They can't shut the hell up. This is what they really are. This is the true philosophy of these idiots.....
They'll never change!!
The term legitimate rape is needed today to close loopholes in defense for rapists. In legal terms rape is only the rape of a woman by a man. which is why the term legitimate rape is used to cover all types of rape from statutory to male on male rape.
I know it makes for catchy headlines and good fodder for democrats to sling toward uneducated voters, but it is not what the media or the democrats make it to be. Had the entire story been reported about the term "legitimate rape," it would not have been able to be used as a club against the republicans. In truth, the usage of the term legitimate rape in legislation protects victims more than legislation that doesn't.
Just because he has medical credentials doesn't make his statement any less ignorant. And, no, Akin was not partially right as the doctor himself explains in the latter part.
You are not going to see him garner much support from the rest of the medical community.
This issue cost the GOP the Senate and you consider it of minor importance? Baffling! But hardly surprising.
This is just a furtherance of Right Wing STUPIDITY! One of the worst plagues ever to hit America.
Josef Mengele was a doctor. Just sayin.
So I wonder if they would call the rape and murder of that poor girl in India a "legitimate rape"? Her murderers are claiming she deserved it because she wasn't "respectable".
And here the posters on that news story thought the Indian lawyer and murdering scumbags he is defending were backwards! Guess the mentality that allows men to justify their violence towards women is not confined to any particular country....
What Gingrey doesn't seem to understand is the context of Akin's words. Sure, there may be a bit of science (and by far a greater chance of luck) in Akin's words but he implied him a way that the woman had any real choice in the termination. By this logic, abortion wouldn't be necessary.
Which is retarded, because as Gringer admitted:
"But the fact that a woman may have already ovulated 12 hours before she is raped, you’re not going to prevent a pregnancy there by a woman’s body shutting anything down because the horse has already left the barn, so to speak."
So yeah, under the right circumstances there might be some truth (the rape causing so much stress/adrenaline that the woman doesn't ovulate), but that still doesn't change the fact. Sure, our bodies can surpass their normal limits under extreme situations (think of a mother lifting a car off her child), but no one's stupid enough to put their faith into that.
The part I found particular damning about Akin's comments was that he suggested pregnancy from rape was rare. That essentially threw Gringrey's minor truth out the window.
Wow. We need a new word to describe this kind of stupidity. It's like the GOP has a contest running to see who can make the most moronic public statement. Gingrey is making a good case for being the new front-runner.
It's a race to the bottom, folks, but they keep moving the finish line.
Look...truth be told, I can't sing a lick...but these people take 'tone deaf' to a whole friggin new level.
How nice that you focus is on the impregnation, irrelevant of how many times it does or does not happen, and not on the fact that a male forced sexual intercourse on a woman, which in the example being talked about DID HAPPEN in 100% of the incidents.
Look, I am a Believer, said it before, say it again, but you have no right to TELL someone else that they what they are carrying in their body is a product of God after a rape and that they need to accept that as their reality any more than you have a right to tell someone that breast cancer if of God and they therefore should keep it. You just don't.
The example sounds harsh at face value, but my focus isn't a child or the cancer and/or trying to compare them to one another. My focus is on what YOU get to deem is from God and when and not from God and when and make that to be the reality that others must adhere to.
JH-479998
At least MSNBC see the importance of keeping this topic alive. But I don't.
--------------@jh,
Well, I disagree. If these out of touch GOPers can't keep their mouth shut and insist on spewing ignorance then we, the American people, should know. Hopefully, the people of Georgia will vote this guy out in 2014.
GOP = ignoramuses
Comments made like this by Republicans just goes to show that they have no intent to learn from their mistakes or reject idiotic ideology. They must go the way of the dinosaur. The sooner, the better.
LOL!!!!! And ya'll voted for this idiot!!!!!
He's good at kissing ass, and those three paragraphs above shows exactly the hypocrits that are running rampant in the republican party.
Keep talking a$$hole and Georgia will be a blue state before you know it...
Sigh.
I'm just glad he wasn't my OB-GYN and isn't my daughter's.
OMG .... these are the American equivalent of India rapists. Thank God, the Americans (most of them) don't fall for these @!$%#s.
Meanwhile over at Fox News, mum's the word. *Bias alert.*
I am SOOOOO embarrassed for my state. A S S H O L E S like this are exactly why I've decided to become VERY active and VERY vocal in the DEMOCRATIC PARTY here in GA. We need to get these knuckledragging, neanderthal troglodytes OUT OF OFFICE. I am sick to death of their blatant ignorance and bronze age mentality. This asshat can take Jack Kingston, Tom Price, Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isakson with him.
His argument is ridiculous.
Adrenaline makes is harder for women to ovulate. Well, even if that is true, what does rape have to do with ovulation unless he's talking about a women who is repeatedly raped over a long enough period to matter? Does he therefore think that the women who are raped are "just asking for it" so they are repeatedly raped enough so they don't ovulate as efficiently as good girls do?
The more these people open their mouths, the more they keep lowering the bar for how stupid somebody can be to be considered a viable GOP candidate or spokesperson.
This guy sounds like he's in the running to become Michelle Bachmann's Science Adviser when she ascends (she'll never be elected) to the presidency.
I just love it when the GOP keeps demonstrating their ignorance and proving to America what idiots they are. Warming. Not.
so glad this idiot is a 'former' OBGYN instead of a current one. I feel bad for his former patients though, who knows what BS he told them.
More proof that it doesn't take any brains to get elected, it just requires a brainless electorate. The stereotypical image of the southern slack-jawed, uncomprehending, weak minded zombie fits right into this scenario. They form a majority of the electorate in the south, but exist elsewhere in great numbers. They listen with rapt attention to all right-wing blather from crackpots like Limbaugh and Beck, and nod their heads like fools at a religious revival. They look to their guns for security, and their bibles for salvation. They elect pompous fatuous loudmouth bags of gas like Gingrey to represent them and think, 'Gollee, ain't he smart? Just listen to them big words he says.'
Thank God, they only make up about 48% of the voting population.
"A Georgia Republican congressman said"
No need to continue beyond that.....
I'm a very staunch fiscal conservative, but rape is about the most vile act someone can commit. There is really nothing to debate. The invasion of the person is on a level that other people can not fathom. I wish they got the death penalty for the trauma that the victim must live with.
It is beyond me how these people are allowed to exist. It doesn't matter if of woman or child....Death to the criminal that commits this act.
Yes, how dare the media tear it apart, after all Akins was partially right and only completely ignorant and offensive. Really though he wasn't even partially right, he said that the body has ways of shutting conception down in the case of legitimate rapes, therefore accusing every woman of lying who's been impregnated by rape. He did not include the world "sometimes" anywhere. Well the good news is, in one fell swoop Mr. Gingrey ruined his medical and political career.
I find myself living in a parallel universe more and more everyday...
The folks responding here don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "legitimate", just as the news media didn't understand it either (or chose not to in order to make the candidate look bad).
All they're both trying to say by using the word is to contrast a "legitimate" rape with a "faked" rape claim in order to deflect blame for an unwanted pregnancy. Neither are saying that true rape is EVER"legitimate", and yet, that's what everybody seems to think they mean. It's totally bizarre...
As far as the basic science that the doctor was trying to clarify, that too seems perfectly logical and clear, and yet is being wildly distorted. There's no question that a "legitimate" rape situation would flood the women's body with adrenaline and probably other hormones that would likely prevent ovulation to occur. What's so weird about that concept that makes others on here think it's so implausible?
Perhaps the word "legitimate" is confusing to some and might have been more clear if the word "actual" was used instead, but are we really that dumb as a culture that we can't figure that out?
I'll admit...I really don't get it...please enlighten me.
Wow looks like another (R) is up for being voted out. Not just for these comments but for being stupid enough to make them public.
Do we really want someone who is so stupid to repeat this view to represent us?
If it were possible to drown in stupid we could just put a finger on the top of the GOP's head and push down lightly for about 2 minutes... They're already gargling and flailing in panic... Polliwogs in a drying mud-hole.
The GOP - still stupid after all these years.
Dear GOD save us from the mentally ill republicans!
I think the best thing to take away from all of this is this:
If you are a man and feel the need to say something about women and their bodies, STFU. All you have is an opinion about something you know nothing about and you know what they say about opinions and @$$holes...
TO: JH-479998 who wrote:
He may be "serious" but he's also wrong, and we thought we got that message through last November.
The fact is, the only time a woman can become pregnant is when she's ovulating, and this guy who claims to be a doctor has to know that, if he is a "doctor".
What is the purpose of him bringing up a completely WRONG statement, that as a doctor he knows is wrong, is anybody's guess.
My guess is, this guy must be either nuts, or a sucker for punishment.
Instantriches, watch the whole debate in which Akins made those comments instead of just reading the quote. The problem people have with Akins comment is that the point he was making is if a girl gets pregnant from rape, she wasn't really raped, therefore the government should have the right to deny an abortion. Mr. Gingrey himself says it's possible to get pregnant from rape
Another Republican For Rape ......
Instantriches, would you agree that it's also plausible for a victim of "legitimate rape" to not automatically produce that magic spermicide (our bodies don't all act the same way), and therefore she should be allowed to choose to terminate the pregnancy if she did become pregnant? If your answer is no, then the only enlightenment going on here is you are pointing out the problem some people have with ANY exceptions in the case of abortion. You are desperately trying to find out how you can outlaw it totally. Ireland just dealt with the fallout on that which resulted in the death of the mother as well as the fetus. It's sad to think that people in this country want to send us back to the back alleys.
It is very reassuring to know that I have rocks in my driveway with more intelligence than at least 2 licensed doctors....priceless. You would think that losing an election would be a wake up call to purge the party of the terminally stupid, but I guess not.
Usually when I read something like this, my reaction is "I don't know whether to laugh or cry." but as a Democrat, my reaction is to laugh and laugh and laugh.
Yes, let Georgia Republicans keep to the idea that women lie about rape all the time to cover up an illicit relationship that resulted in pregnancy. Let them keep up the idea that our lady parts have magical powers to keep from getting pregnant from 'legitimate' rape. Please, please let them spout this nonsense loud and clear for the next 2 years. Between this and the Tea Party, Republicans will be facing extinction.
By the way, Gringrey is an idiot and is 70 so he probably graduated from medical school about 50 years ago.
Partly right on legitimate rape? Umm that's like being a virgin.. either you are or you aren't.
When is the GOP going to get this...THERE IS NO part of legitimate rape that makes it "RIGHT".
What a bunch of malarkey from the right.
How about a new "Reality Show" - "Spinning Stupid"? No shortage of candidates willing, if not eager, to broadcast their "skills". Would one expect a conservative OB/GYN to say anything different? It's about religion and agenda - science has little or nothing to do with it.
And I'm not so sure about receiving "Gods Blessing" in an alley at knifepoint. Seems just a bit inconsistent - unless, of course, you're a 'Republican' former OB/GYN.
I can certainly see a reason to keep this topic alive.
I'll bet a significant number of our teen pregnancies happen because the kids are ignorant. (You know, that whole "abstinence" thing that works so well.) Let's not keep them MORE ignorant by thinking an adreneline rush is going to prevent pregnancy!
Another reason to keep the topic "alive"? There's an election in two years. If the people pushing this dumb idea are still around, the voters in their districts need to strongly consider if they are really who they want representing them!
The American people are having so much fun watching the Tea Koch Movement tear the GOP apart !!!
Because the stress would have to be ongoing, occurring over a long period of time (days,weeks) before it affects a woman's body.
Most rape is sudden, quick, over with in the matter of an hour (if even that long) and that's not enough time for a burst of adrenaline to affect a woman's reproductive system. The rapist's sperm would have died (in the acidic environment of a woman's body, sperm can only live a few days, one week at most) and so the adrenaline burst from the rape would have NO effect on whether an egg was present in the uterus to be fertilized by the rapist's sperm at the time of the rape at all.
Hence why Akin's, and Gingrey's, reasoning is flawed.
Now, if the woman was under really high stress for an extended period prior to the rape, there might not bean egg in there--but again, that would have nothing to do with adrenaline produced by the crime of rape.
In cases of long-term abuse such as with incest cases or sex-slave human trafficking, yes, the stress can result in the abuse victim missing an ovulation cycle. But continued extended periods of high stress results in our bodies becoming adjusted to that high level and we'll ovulate anyway irregardless of the current stress...and we'll get pregnant.
Comparing difficulty to conceive between a committed couple to a rape victims chances of conceiving demonstrates the lack of knowledge that this man also holds. What is scary about that is he was an actual doctor. While the risk of pregnancy resulting from a rape certainly will be affected by the woman's time in her cycle, if that timing is right and the rapist is not infertile himself, the chances of pregnancy are not reduced just because it is rape. That is what is important, that these men keep repeating something that seems to say that just because it is rape (legitimate, of course) that the woman won't be pregnant as a result when there is no evidence to back that up. I am disgusted by their continued beating of this dead horse, but as long as they continue to do so, hopefully they can be seen as what they really are- incompetent men who should not hold office in our US Congress.
What this is is another confirmation of the republicon belief in women as property.
"Underlying the Republican rape comments and actual Republican political goals are a few fundamental convictions: first, women are vessels for childbearing and care-taking; second, women cannot be trusted; and third, women are the property of men."
Republicons are domestic terrorists on the same level as the Taliban.
The real Republican rape platform | Jill Filipovic | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
Sorry,timed out before I could add something to my last post;
If bursts of adrenaline kept women from getting pregnant, then why do we have so many teen girls running around pregnant? Adrenaline bursts can come from just running a race at a track meet or playing a competitive sport, watching a basketball or football game, nearly getting hit by a car,almost missing the bus, having to go face your parents with a lousy report card, getting attacked by an out-of-control dog, the list goes on.
And a woman who experiences climax has elevated adrenaline levels afterward. If it were true that adrenaline can keep you from getting pregnant, then pleasurable sex resulting in a female climax would never result in any babies.
instantriches "I find myself living in a parallel universe more and more everyday..."
yes, you live in the world that seeks ENDLESSLY to try to justify RAPE.
What MORE is there to say other than A WOMAN WHO IS RAPED HAS A RIGHT TO TERMINATE HER PREGNANCY SHOULD SHE BECOME PREGNANT?
Todd Akin's ENTIRE point was that it's not ok for a woman to terminate her pregnancy BECAUSE in cases of (legitimate) RAPE, her body has ways of shutting that whole thing down - SO THEREFORE, (legitimate or otherwise) raped women dont get pregnant. Conclusion, what babies are there to abort?
"The folks responding here don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "legitimate", just as the news media didn't understand it either (or chose not to in order to make the candidate look bad)."
No, I understand the word perfectly clear. By the way, who made the legal choice to add the word "LEGITIMATE" to the front of it anyway? Maybe im just a dumb woman, but isnt the word RAPE, pretty darn clear?
"All they're both trying to say by using the word is to contrast a "legitimate" rape with a "faked" rape claim in order to deflect blame for an unwanted pregnancy. Neither are saying that true rape is EVER"legitimate", and yet, that's what everybody seems to think they mean. It's totally bizarre..."
a faked rape ISNT a rape.
you're just reinforcing why we are all outraged, though I dont expect someone like yourself, or Akin or this latest idiot to grasp that...you're still trying to justify RAPE.
"As far as the basic science that the doctor was trying to clarify, that too seems perfectly logical and clear, and yet is being wildly distorted."
NO IT'S NOT - so if a woman was drugged and then raped, where's all the adrenaline "shutting that whole thing down" - it's like you dolts cant see the BIG PICTURE HERE. Do you think all women are raped while kicking and screaming????
"There's no question that a "legitimate" rape situation would flood the women's body with adrenaline and probably other hormones that would likely prevent ovulation to occur. What's so weird about that concept that makes others on here think it's so implausible?"
there's nothing weird about the concept, what's weird is that people like you seem to think it happens every single time, like Mr Akin was saying. So what happens when a woman is raped, her adrenaline and hormones are flaring, and she still gets pregnant? Probably just a liar huh?
JUST STOP. SHUT YOUR MOUTH, AND ACCEPT YOU HAVENT A CLUE
"Perhaps the word "legitimate" is confusing to some and might have been more clear if the word "actual" was used instead, but are we really that dumb as a culture that we can't figure that out?"
No, im pretty certain he meant legitimate, as in, anyone who claims to have been raped AND gets pregnant, it wasnt legitimate, as in you know, not ACTUAL RAPE. We arent that dumb, it's YOU.
"I'll admit...I really don't get it...please enlighten me."
Frankly, I dont think it's possible...
I'd suggest you move to India and help get the gang rapers free'd...there making the same case you are.
I mean, they didnt rape no respectable lady...
So, a once practicing OBGYN is basically making the assertion that in some cases of rape, the stress of the rape on the body may prevent a woman from ovulating which can be supported with scientific evidence and simply because he's now a GOP Congressman the left goes nuts. He didn't say in all cases, he didn't say every time, yet the posts on here seem to imply the left thinks this guy is condoning rape and calling for women to be raped. Sheesh. Even some of your citicizing him acknowlegdge he is right in the scientific realm but then go an to bash him anyway simply because of his politcal affiliations.
It's called "Making Excuses" for a stupid moron.
Was this guy Aiken's source of "expertise" for his original statement? Christ, what a mess.
I feel like there are some guys in here, like INSTANTRICHES AND ELLIOT who need to read the definition of RAPE, and explain to me why the word LEGITIMATE needs to be attached to it?
rape
1 /reɪp/ Show Spelled [reyp] Show IPA noun, verb, raped, rap·ing.
noun
1. the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3. statutory rape.
4. an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5. Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
verb (used with object)
6. to force to have sexual intercourse.
7. to plunder (a place); despoil.
8. to seize, take, or carry off by force.
Elliot - i've googled and googled and googled, there's nothing coming up that confirms "legitimate rape" is a legal term, as you seem to suggest.
Care to provide proof to your assertion?
Oh how I love Republicans. They just cannot control themselves!
@STLMIke
I believe the reason the left is going nuts is because that argument is being used to justify the official GOP stance that abortion should be outlawed in all cases of rape.
I just hope this whole legitimate rape and women being treated as property rant comes back in the next election cycle, which probably will since the idiots who spout this crap seem to think they're being so very clever in all their justifications and arguments.
Anyway, that should help the Democrats to pick up at least another couple seats in the House in 2014.
STLMike - how can i put this in a context you'll grasp?
this guy is like the defense attorneys and spirtual leaders in India defending the gang rapists
"I have yet to see any evidence of a respectable lady being raped"
Respectable Lady...Legitimate Rapes...
yes, it's all cut from the same damn cloth.
THATS what pisses us off.
Yes we know SOME WOMEN wont get pregnant because A) they arent ovulating and B) their stress and hormones and adrenaline MIGHT prevent a pregnancy even if she IS ovulating.
REPEAT AKIN'S STATEMENT: “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.”
come on, don't continue to pretend you're as stupid as these people are...make the women in your life slightly proud today and see the light buddy.
Statements like Akin's makes me furious. He has no clue what it's like to be a woman placed in that position, when she's the victim of a violent act. Terms such as "legitimate rape" are used by those who deep down (or even openly), believe the woman did something to deserve it. It is difficult enough for a woman to come to grips with being raped, but to have to read comments from someone in a position of power is salt to the wound. His absolute ignorance about a woman's body makes me wonder where the hell he got his education from.
I still assert that Mr Akin's use of the word LEGITIMATE was intentional.
Just like his attempts to rename rape as "forcible rape" - which, would not include someone being drugged and then raped, because by golly, they didnt have to FORCE her.
RAPE IS RAPE, no need to for additional words.
As I understand it the assertion made by Akin which Gingrey is addresing here is whether stress from a rape can keep a woman becoming pregnant from that rape. And the answer is no.
Stress from a rape will make no difference as to whether an egg is present in the uterus at the time the rape occurs to be fertilized by the rapist's sperm, because the egg will have been released (ovulation) somewhere between a day to a few days prior to the rape.
And while stress from the rape can prevent ovulation later, it's a moot point because by the time the woman ovulates next (even if ovulation happens one day later) the sperm left in the body from the rapist is dead. The little swimmers can only live in the woman's body a few days (at most) so by the time the egg reaches the uterus the sperm is non-viable.
There's substantial 'question' about that, instantriches. This study, for example:
Or this one:
Clearly, the good doctor is wrong - terribly wrong - on this issue.
Jessica - unfortunately, some people do not want to accept reality or the truth if it goes against their dogma. Akin's mentality makes me physically sick.
Un-be- fargin'- lievable. "Gingrey" = "brain dead douche", got it.
beth: Why is it the women on this thread so consistently make more sense than the boys? (Rhetorical, of course) It's embarrassing for the men here as well. Not to worry, we're not all the 'potato goes in the front' advocates. Thank God.
There's a couple of observations in this matter that are very clear, and they actually apply to all areas of life, not just politics. The most obvious is that everyone thinks they are the one who is right and everyone who doesn't is crazy. Second, if you want to understand what someone is saying then you listen and you can understand. If you don't want to understand then you are again convinced that the person is crazy because you don't understand how they can think/say such a thing.
As for Akin's comments, a lot of women understand what was the gist of what Akin was trying to say, but didn't say too clearly, and that is that stress play a part of a woman's ability to get pregnant. Gingrey was supporting this idea. Of course, stress affects one's health in numerous ways. I can only guess that Akin was trying to ease the uproar over his position that abortion is wrong, period. Not exactly a concise way of saying it, and as he's seen, if you aren't perfectly clear in what you say, then your opponents will latch onto anything they can to gain the upper hand. But, it makes sense that if you believe a fetus is a person, then the how of Mommy getting pregnant doesn't make any difference. You don't kill an innocent child.
The fact is that people are never going to agree on the abortion issue.
For those who are in favor of allowing abortions, the fetus is just a fetus, except when it is their fetus and they want to have a baby. Then it is a baby from the beginning. For those who are against abortion, they want to do everything they can to protect the life of the baby, at least while it is in the womb. Then, after the birth, they could care less.
I actually think that Roe v. Wade had the best "compromise" in this matter. The problem is that it hasn't been followed. Roe set up a 3 tier system based on trimesters, for allowing or disallowing abortion. As we know, only the first tier has survived and that is that all abortions are allowed until the time of birth.
Just an observation.
Gingery is 70 years old and got his medical degree in the 1960's from the rather small, Medical College of Georgia. I won't suggest that this isn't a good school or that Gingery isn't a good doctor, but you have to question just how credible he would be as a medical professional. Even his statement regarding making an assertion that the correlation to adrenaline and ovulation would somehow prevent pregnancy is a ridiculous stretch. Unless you are having some pretty lame mechanical sex, most participants will indeed produce some adrenaline in the process. He also seems to neglect that sperm can remain viable for some time after sex, whether it is rape or consensual sex. Adrenaline dissipates rather quickly, so ovulation occurring not long afterwards should be entirely possible. That means pregnancy does not have to occur immediately during the "magic of the moment". If that were the case, the human race would have gone extinct long ago.
Gingery's assertion has almost zero credibility as being based in reality. It is purely some speculation on his part that has little if any real basis in science. He's probably the guy who gave Akin's belief the "credibility" he thought it had!
Gingery is just one of many examples of a Republican Party out of touch with reality who will go to just about any extreme to attempt to justify their convoluted ideology. Gingery is a member of the Tea Party caucus and serves on a number of health and science related Congressional committees. The problem with putting guys like this on these committees is that they are people who put their ideology ahead of what solid science tells us. Whether it be climate change, evolution, or even some obscure interpretation of science such as Akin expressed, these ideologues and often religious fanatics, are put in a position to support junk science and drive policy based on such interpretations. Gingery is an idiot who has no business holding a position that directly influences and create public policy.
Gingery is 70 years old and got his medical degree in the 1960's from the rather small, Medical College of Georgia. I won't suggest that this isn't a good school or that Gingery isn't a good doctor, but you have to question just how credible he would be as a medical professional. Even his statement regarding making an assertion that the correlation to adrenaline and ovulation would somehow prevent pregnancy is a ridiculous stretch. Unless you are having some pretty lame mechanical sex, most participants will indeed produce some adrenaline in the process. He also seems to neglect that sperm can remain viable for some time after sex, whether it is rape or consensual sex. Adrenaline dissipates rather quickly, so ovulation occurring not long afterwards should be entirely possible. That means pregnancy does not have to occur immediately during the "magic of the moment". If that were the case, the human race would have gone extinct long ago.
Gingery's assertion has almost zero credibility as being based in reality. It is purely some speculation on his part that has little if any real basis in science. He's probably the guy who gave Akin's belief the "credibility" he thought it had!
Gingery is just one of many examples of a Republican Party out of touch with reality who will go to just about any extreme to attempt to justify their convoluted ideology. Gingery is a member of the Tea Party caucus and serves on a number of health and science related Congressional committees. The problem with putting guys like this on these committees is that they are people who put their ideology ahead of what solid science tells us. Whether it be climate change, evolution, or even some obscure interpretation of science such as Akin expressed, these ideologues and often religious fanatics, are put in a position to support junk science and drive policy based on such interpretations. Gingery is an idiot who has no business holding a position that directly influences and create public policy.
Akin's take is medically incorrect. Bottom line, it's typical bull@!$%# that women have to read/hear, over and over again. I'm just too angry to even attempt to argue this.
Actually his comments are very understandable. The conservatives honestly believe that if they repeat the same false or distorted horse hockey over and over and over that:
A. It will be perceived as the truth.
B. It will become fact.
And to think that Rush refers to anyone who doesn't vote conservative as "the low information voters"!?!?!?!?!?!?
Actually that's exactly backwards. Regardless of the reason (stress induced ovulation, etc), rape results in pregnancy at roughly a 5% higher rate than consensual sex.
My guess is that it is higher because women who are ovulating are more likely to be attacked by these animals. And my apologies to the animal kingdom. The more I hear from the Republican Party (and boy, do they like to focus on SEX), the more I become convinced that no man, right or left, should have the power to make a law that affects women only. They have no standing.
You are all ignorant a**holes who only believe in science when it supports your agenda! When science contradicts your godlike opinion, the science is faulty!
another fu&^%$ing loser GOP congressman who will be voted out of office come 2014. Man, oh man, do i miss the real republican party...
Why has the GOP been invaded by these idiots? When will they learn to shut their mouths and go read a book before spouting off on things like this?
As a woman I can only say HOLY SHEEPDIP, what a flipping idiot. I cannot believe that morons such as this GOP congressman are also Drs with the power of life and death in their shockingly ignorant hands. The AMA needs to rethink their licensing requirements because this moons evidently wasnt listening in HS biology and health classes, much less during the 8 years of his med school curriculum.
The GOP 4G network is God, guns, gays,and gynecology.
Every woman who presents at the hospital for a "rape kit" is offered "the morning after pill". If she refuses it, she may in fact become pregnant!
But, some are smart enough to keep those thoughts to themselves until AFTER the election....this guy is just playing to the lowest of the low in his party...why didn't he stand up for those guys during their elections?
When a woman screams rape and she wasn't. It does happen. Remember the Duke Lacrosse Case!
Like everything else the federal government says i'll take his word for it.
Just goes to show you how bad the alternative to a GOP candidate is! With continual stupid remarks like this you would think the House would gain even more Dems, and the Senate would reverse leadership. However, the excessive spending, overly liberal agenda, the push for gun control, neglecting attention to illegal aliens, ignoring the 55 million abortions, and running the country into the ground by liberal democrats, out weighs these ridiculous statements by GOPers!
The sad part is that some people will beleive him. Lesson to all politicians - if you find the word "rape" leaving your lips, shut your mouth. You can only lose from saying it.
OK for you IGNORANT people that can NOT read.
He said that a legitimate rape was NOT that of a boyfriend that got his girlfirend pregnant. I bet you IGNORANT DEMORATS think that if she got pregnant and said she was raped even though it was her boyfriend that was the father and she wanted to have sex with him and he did NOT force the sex, then you probably still agree, since she said she was raped that it is still RAPE. TYPICAL IGNORANT DEMORATS.
Sounds like the PIGLOSI statement of unemployment is a way to create JOBS. So lets get this straight. the more we layoff and put on UNEMPLOYMENT the more jobs we will create. YEAH sure. NANCY IS SO STUPID. Rich and STUPID.
Open mouth..........insert foot.
Al the Ignorant will never listen to those facts. they will make up there own. Prove me right you ignorant demorats.
When a girl has sex and isn't raped but claims to have been raped. Is that a hard concept??
It's no joke! Let 'em spew that kind of crap, it'll be their downfall. Educated people know it a bunch of bull$#!+, and the GOP will hang themselves with it. Say goodbye to the women's vote, GOP!
Of course, all those hillbilles in the South believe that nonsense and will continue to elect their fellow hillbillies to represent us in Congress. Next time they scream about secession we should let them do it; most of the welfare states are in the South, so we would be rid of them...and Texas would only be able to support them for so long. After that, we can loan them money and be able to pay down a chunk of the national debt, because the New Confederacy would take it on.
Photo of the next President of the Confederate States of America:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://itsallsatire247.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/jethro.jpg&imgrefurl=http://itsallsatire247.wordpress.com/2010/06/25/jethro-bodine-named-new-education-czar/&h=210&w=240&sz=7&tbnid=bUplqJWHmx0HeM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=103&zoom=1&usg=__Oy5n4qMUusnp-KzaLO_Zj7uCBrU=&docid=mLEu4fcXL2BvJM&sa=X&ei=ZnLwUOKPIqn2igLO04HwBQ&ved=0CDYQ9QEwAQ&dur=111
Steve - history will prove you wrong (once again). That's a guarantee. Whatever fantasy you and your Tea-stained party wish upon won't change a thing.
Steve1962,
Actually, he went on to say:
"And don’t be so tense and uptight because all that adrenaline can cause you not to ovulate.’ So he was partially right wasn’t he?"
He was not just talking about boyfriends.
I'm just curious if most of you assume every person up for trial on rape charges is automatically guilty?
tjohn_missouri
Actually his comments are very understandable. The democRAT honestly believe that if they repeat the same false or distorted horse hockey over and over and over that:
A. It will be perceived as the truth.
B. It will become fact.
sounds like you are talking about the worthless, lying scumbag democRAT party to me. Everything that comes out of bozos mouth is a lie and YOUR rotten party doesnt care. scumbag rat party. I do mean R.A.T.
This guy is playing with words, he is spinning, very simply he is lying. Most adults and most definitely all women, who don't have true mental retardation, already knows that women don't automatically get pregnant everytime they have intercourse. They have to be ovulating. Akin's comment was saying that there are differences in rape and implies if it is legitimate that a woman's body prevents pregnancy, even when she is ovulating. This is trying to justify the elimination of abortion by saying Akin wasn't completely wrong.
There is a reason why invading armies or tribes in ancient times raped all of the women, they believed that women would not resist them if they had their children and it was a way, in their mind, to ethnically cleanse the new territory and populate it with their offspring. It is still just a way to impose control over someone.
And these guys are thinking that they can control this issue and these women, just like any other religous group controls the congregation. It has nothing to do with God. This is a power grab, that's all. They want us all to line up in nice little lines and accept what they say and do what they tell us to do, so that we can live in this perfect little world of theirs. Our independence and our Constitution is about one group or one person NOT having complete control over our nation. Do these guys really think we are so stupid to not read and understand our history, to not read and understand how anything works?
Adrenaline causes a woman to not get pregnant huh? Welll.....My husband and I decide to get freak nasty in the car with the fear of getting caught....adrenaline is PUMPING, let me tell you. Well, we still got a baby out of that one. Such a stupid way of thinking, this guy.
Al,
False rape accusations are like plane crashes, you hear about them because they're so rare, not so common.
http://polimicks.livejournal.com/5618.html
http://www.awolau.org/2010/04/05/myth-busters-false-rape-reports/
http://almostdiamonds.blogspot.com/2011/03/rape-myth-1-shes-probably-lying.html
http://rwu.edu/campus-life/health-counseling/counseling-center/sexual-assault/rape-myths-and-fac
http://www.rainn.org/
Rape is one of the most difficult crimes to prosecute. For one to even be passed on from the police and actually brought to court is rare. Factor in the already very low percentage of false accusations that are ACTUALLY reported to the police, and the low conviction rates, false accusation conviction numbers are low. VERY low. The myth of the all common, false rape accusation is a patriarchal, dirty move used to further policies that are anti-woman.
"The term legitimate rape is needed today to close loopholes in defense for rapists. In legal terms rape is only the rape of a woman by a man. which is why the term legitimate rape is used to cover all types of rape from statutory to male on male rape."
Elliot, you're an idiot. There is no such thing as legitimate rape, any more there is such a thing as legitimate murder. Now, if you want to expand the definition of rape, I'm happy to have that conversation. But making excuses for someone using the term 'legitimate rape' is simply providing a cover up for that person's stupidity. And it makes you look just as stupid.
moshuluu
LOL!!!!! And ya'll voted for this idiot!!!!!
moshuluu,
I would imagine that Gingrey's diction was muffled due to having Rush's d!ck in his mouth.
Are there any Republicans out there who would actually admit to being a Republican anymore???
Like a line right out of the movies:
I think everybody here knows that when the guy said "legitimate rape," he was talking about a rape that actually happened as opposed to a false report made for convenience. I don't stand by the balance of his claim. But it is dihonest to say that he was saying that "rape is okay in some circumstances." He wasn't. (Democrats can be just as dishonest as Republicans.) He correctly identified that sometimes when a woman cries "rape" (like when she's eight months pregnant and decides she needs a good excuse to get an abortion) there was no rape. If it takes you even two months to figure out you were raped, I don't believe you. Certainly a time limit to a rape exception to a prohibition against abortion is reasonable.
disagreeing with you does not make someone stupid. Saying something that you don't like to hear does not make someone stupid. And given that ovulation is controlled by hormones, it is not stupid to suggest that hormones might sometimes interfere. Oh, and if the AMA rethinks its licensing requirement, it should deny or revoke the licence to anyone who violates the Hippocratic Oath.
Some people just have their mind's set on getting the US through its troubles and getting to the '20's,
for the Republicans, that't the 1820's.
I get the distinct impression that we are entertaining the idea that there is "bad rape', a 'not-so-bad rape', a 'not-so-good rape', and a 'good rape'.
We'll (us old, white guys) then decide who is, or is not, allowed to self-fund the termination of a violence-induced (gift from God) pregnancy. "Morning after" pills? An abomination, to be sure. They potentially end the cell division of a potentially potential potential.
This isn't about rape at all. Besides, most of us really don't give a damn anyway - unless it's my daughter. We just want to retain intra-continental control of your uterus. "Everyone knows" women certainly aren't qualified to reasonably handle such weighty issues.
The (il)logic of this entire discussion defies the imagination - not to mention the patience.
I've come to the ultra-liberal conclusion that what you do with your body, with or without a consenting adult, is None of My Business.
The words 'legitimate' and 'rape' are mutually exclusive and should never be combined.
Legitimate means, in short, 'legal'.
Rape is, by definition, forcing someone to have sex against their will.
Forcing someone to do anything against their will, especially sex, in this country is illegal, i.e. not legitimate.
So there is no such thing as 'legitimate rape'. Rape by its definition is not 'legitimate'.
Now, in the boyfriend who got his girlfriend pregnant above, that's not rape even if she says it is. That's called false accusation.
Those of us who have truly BEEN RAPED get very angry at those who toss the words around like a football at the Superbowl--If you have never been raped, you have absolutely NO idea how disgusting and traumatic and life-altering it is and it is not something to be joked about, tossed around, or used as political ammunition.
I would ALMOST say that you should experience it before you talk about it but I would not wish a rape on my worst enemy. It is something no human being should ever have to experience. The humiliation, degradation, loss of identity, self-security, confidence and assurance are among the worst forms of psychological torture one human being can ever inflict on another.
PLEASE, everyone, try to be more understanding of those of us who HAVE experienced this.
What idiots and ideologues you libbies on this forum are...using the term "legitimate rape" isn't relative to a rape being ok in one set of circumstances vs another; it means an ACTUAL rape as opposed to a female crying wolf and saying she was raped when she was actually a willing participant but found herself pregnant as a result. Yes, it's hard to believe but some women have falsely cried rape, ie. Tawana Brawley comes to mind!
The right tries to deflect the issue. They know saying they'd deny women that are raped or victims of incest the right to abort would infuriate women. Instead of defending that position they argue that most of those never get pregnant. It's absurd to argue about hypothetical women who don't get pregnant after being raped it's about women who do become pregnant that are the issue. Defend what you believe and take your lumps or shut the hell up. Telling a women that was raped about odds won't comfort her if it happens.
elliot-3020456, instant riches,Randy, and Steve,
Legitimate rape, as a matter of terminology, was used pointedly because it is exactly what
Akin and Paul Ryan were trying to define as “forcible rape” when they
co-sponsored legislation in the House. They were trying to more narrowly define
rape so that only forcible rape cases can have federal funding for abortion. In
their eyes, “legitimate” rape is only the “forcible” variety. This would very
possibly exclude cases of incest, or cases where a person was in some other way
incapacitated (alcohol or drugs) and unable to consent. Other types of coercion
may also result in rape but may not meet the definition of “forcible,” however
that’s defined by them. This is in alignment with their trying to narrow the “life of
the mother” exception to abortion, as well. As if the gov’t should be defining
how close a woman has to be to death rather than her doctor!
Elliot,
Not sure where you're looking, but "rape" isn't defined by gender, either. It's the acts that define it and it can happen to either gender.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL --- You know it is almost like saying a baby is not a baby until it is conceived. But for the terminally incompetent they were explaining legal fixtures and definitions when it comes down to legislation and the liberal lawyers and how they present their defense to get the bad guys off of rape charges. The only problem is you reactive boneheads are so focused on your own form of interpretation you neglect all of the rest. At best maybe you should go island tipping with some of you representatives and quit worrying about mine.
Steve Wilson - newsflash, sweetheart, not every woman who is raped goes to the hospital or is treated. The trauma from a sexual offense can be horrific. Sometimes, to the point where the woman is not capable of acting on her own behalf. Yes, a morning after pill is provided at the time of services. Not all women are in the mental/emotional position to get help right away. Unless you've experienced this for yourself, you cannot understand it.
To quote Mr. Obama... "Please continue, Congressman Gingrey." The more these numbskulls in the TPGOP open their mouths, the better the chances of Dems winning elections. If they were smart, they'd simply say "no comment" on ANY issue related to rape, women's bodies, or modern science. Subjects they know so little about.
I think some of you are missing the point. We know that by "legitimate rape" he was trying to distinguish between rape and false accusations. The PROBLEM with that, is that is automatically adds a qualifier that calls into question the credibility of the victim. It adds a sense that false accusations are common, or more likely to occur than rape, both of which are 100% FALSE (see the links above).
Even in other crimes that may not have actually occurred, we don't add that stigma. How about insurance fraud??? Was it a "legitimate" arson? A "legitimate" theft? No, this is only done in regards to rape.
How disgusting that any of you would try to justify that. We have a system that ensures that we're innocent until proven guilty. Let the system sort through what's true and false and drop the "stigma" associated with reporting rape. Maybe this is why only about 25% of rapes are reported. And before some screwball starts asking about, "Well don't you think innocent men are convicted", I'm sure they are. HOWEVER, they're also convicted of crimes OTHER than rape, and I don't see the backlash towards those victims/accusers, or the concern for the innocent behind bars. That's a problem for the system to fix, not an excuse to create a hostile environment for all victims, because of a minute amount of liars.
Ugh is right. It's time for a serious overhaul of the GOP. These old, crusty bastards spewing this socially conservative @!$%# on a regular basis do not represent the views of a good portion of the party. Get Reince Priebus out by contacting your state chaiman and asking them to nominate Mark Willis:
http://stepdownnow.com/why-this-is-important-mark-willis-for-rnc-chair/
No, but unlike the teabaggers we do assume that rape is rape. And just like all other crimes not all the accused are guilty.
This is the same idiot that says that creationism is true and that evolution is a lie... Despite of the MOUNTAINS of proofs that exist that evolution is true.
What can you expect from a hick Republican jacka$$.
I'm given to wonder if the good doctor, Rep. Phil Gingrey, is also a Whirling Dervish and a gifted contortionist...
Because his attempt to spin the asinine comments of Rep. Todd Akin amount to one hell of a stretch!
But not in the case of a Rape!
Stress from a rape will make no difference as to whether an egg is present in the uterus at the time the rape occurs to be fertilized by the rapist's sperm, because the egg will have been released (ovulation) somewhere between a day to a few days prior to the rape.
And while stress from the rape can prevent ovulation later, it's a moot point because by the time the woman ovulates next (even if ovulation happens one day later) the sperm left in the body from the rapist is dead. The little swimmers can only live in the woman's body a short time so by the time the egg reaches the uterus the sperm is non-viable.
In cases of long-term abuse such as with incest cases or sex-slave human trafficking, yes, the stress can result in the abuse victim missing an ovulation cycle. But continued, extended periods of high stress results in our bodies becoming adjusted to that high level and we'll ovulate anyway irregardless of the current stress...and we'll STILL get pregnant.
What is truly hilarious is that, in every state, if it is a 15 year old girl, by statutory definition, it IS RAPE.
Most states have the age of consent being 16, 17, or 18.
So if a 15 year old girl gets pregnant, she had to have been raped, she can't consent because SHE IS NOT OLD ENOUGH TO CONSENT !!!!
Republican morons continue their war on women. Fortunately, the women are fighting back and taking the seats in Congress away from the morons.
instantriches,
It is not that people do not understand the explanations. It is not that they don't get the meaning of 'Legitimate Rate'. It is not that people do not get the science of how the body deals with intense emotions such as fear.
It is the fact that you are trying to explain to the victim that there may have been good reasons why they were victimized.
Your words make sane people shudder. You are a very, very dangerous individual.
He was also partly right. When he said smoking some weed is a good way to chill out.
It just never occurred to him that he was smoking poison ivy!
What a bunch of idiots!
Steve 1962 - Women have been putting up with the same ignorant attitudes and statements for years - at a time when people actually have access to real facts. It is not just infuriating that a so called "professional" and senator would issue false medical information, but he continues to call into question a victim's credibility with the terms he purposely uses. The same type of @!$%# when someone questions why a woman didn't resist, or attempt to fight off her attacker; or questions how she dressed, and so on. Things that hurt like hell. Most of us are living in 2012, but there are those who haven't caught up and refuse to do so.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
OMG!
These left wing idiots just don't know when to shut the hell up!
The scariest part is, this moron is an actual voter...
UGH! Is right, Ames!
There fixed it for ya.
we luv this man on account of we done share his view on this here subject. we don't need no stinkin science to know what a man got and what a woman done have. Amen
Amanda:
The doctor said that some pregnancies occur because the egg is already present and that some occur because it is released within a certain time frame after sex. It is that second category in which hormones may plausibly block such a release. I only state that it is plausible because I don't claim to know for a fact.
MarsRover:
I fixed it for you.
Buford - we'll shut the hell up when we no longer have to deal with ignorant @!$%#s. Get a vagina and you tell me what your attitude is when you've been raped.
Maybe Mary was raped, but that horse "had already left the barn". Makes more sense than a virgin birth.
Then he should have called it exactly what it is--'false accusation'.
Thank you Amanda. But the senator doesn't want to use that term. He chose his words carefully.
I know a guy who spent three years in prison for statutory rape; even though the 15 year old girl told him she was 18 her parents had him prosecuted and convicted...and that will follow him around the rest of his life.
It's hard to believe we're still talking about that "legitimate rape" bull$#!+. Anyone with half a brain knows it's nonsense...now if they're talking about false accusation that's one thing, but this "shutting down" drivel is way out there in left field.
It seems as though there are a lot of people defending these buffoons...people with less than half a brain...
Then, if the GOP doctor is correct, the reverse is also true. If your 15 year old daughter is walking in the park and gets raped by a "foul" stranger. Should she get pregnant, you will tell her she enjoyed what that man did to her, so quit complaining and make the "gift" the Lord God has given to her.
amanda: Forgive me. It was my attempt to illustrate how lightly some of us take this issue - certainly in no way meant to minimize the trauma this indefensible act creates.
I foolishly used levity to characterize the increasingly cavalier attitude some have toward the rights of women to decline advances, and to be the only ones to make decisions concerning their health - including reproductive health.
In my concern for this subject, I allowed myself to descend to a level that shouldn't have been breached.
Again, I apologize for my lack of sensitivity.
soooo did anyone catch that he's okay with a 15 year old GIRL getting pregnant by her Unnamed age boyfriend? THAT doesn't count as rape. Didn't see anyone post that MOST states call that statutory rape because a 15 year old girl is NOT of a mind to understand what she's being talked into. MOST 15 year old girls DO NOT seek sex unless they've been raped before and again STATUTORY rape, is STILL rape Mr. Dr. IDIOT. By the way, yeah as far as the OB/GYNS who help themselves to the theory that non-pregnancy is all the WOMAN'S fault are QUACKS. Got news for you, in EUROPE after 3 miscarriages, they test everyone genetically. YOU morons told me that I was too stressed (and HOLY CRAP wouldn't women LOVE the idiea that stress can cause miscarriages or block pregnancy! DO YOU MORONS HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY PREGNANCIES WOULD NOT EXIST if that were all it tooK?!?!) Turns out after U.S. IDIOT Ob/Gyns told me that it was MY fault, well GEE.. hubby there had a genetic issue that prevented our children from living to a full term. But hey, just blame the women, give em all valium and tell them to go home and be alcoholic in spite of the fact that hubs brought home the STD! Cuz we're STILL in that generation of thinking when it comes to the GOP apparently.
yeah, listen up there Congressman, a 15 year old having sex is NOT okay, and you being okay with it speaks VOLUMES to your tastes in women er... GIRLS!
OMG what an idiot... if the perpetrator is using lubricant, no matter what the body shut down it will leave less rape mark.
The story clearly stated that, the victim thought it was her boyfriend. Of course the body did not shut down... sigh.
The reason "legitimate rape" is being brought up again is because some Goober Nut Job brang it up!
D'oh! The same turkeys wishing this to go away are the same idiots waiting for Benghazi update # 7999!
amanda: Please re-read my post 1.105 with the above considerations in mind. I thought it illustrated the insensitivity, the patronage, and the holier-than-thou attitudes that prevail in a certain segment of our society.
That is true.
And again, I'll repeat: while stress from the rape might prevent ovulation later, it's a moot point because by the time that egg reaches the uterus the sperm left in the body from the rapist is dead.
It takes 6-12 days for an egg to reach the uterus to be fertilized after being released from the ovaries.
Those little swimmers can't live that long in the woman's body; the higher temperatures and the much more acidic environment aren't conducive to a long shelf life. That's why men have their family jewels outside, because the little tadpoles can't survive the 98.6 degree temperature of the human body for long.
SO ADRENALINE DURING A RAPE WILL HAVE NO EFFECT ON CONCEPTION FROM THE RAPIST'S SPERM.
More stupidity from the GOP rightwingwhackadoodles.
If a woman is pregnant then there is a significantly reduced likelihood that she was raped. That is what they are saying.
My favorite part is the "it's still a child of God" piece.
And The Lord said...
"Here you go lady....I'm gonna have this random guy forcibly stuff his junk into you against your will and impregnate you. Deal with it. That's still technically my child."
You are essentially saying that God is a rapist.
The Lawwwwd works in mysterious ways.
You read those ridiculous comments from that lawyer defending those rapists in India and you think to yourself...."thankfully we don't have that sort of medieval way of thinking in America anymore."
Oh damn! Wait...yep....we still do.
This is another example of unintended consequences of lawmaking. Ever since the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act became law, was upheld by the US Supreme Court, and then Republican Governor Mitt Romney's presidential bid succumbed to... well... Republican politics, the wealthy and powerful in the state of Georgia have been pushing medical professionals into politics.
I recently read a book about the viciousness of jealousies and rivalries in science. The hypercriticism and intellectualization of all things biological is now a piece of the political puzzle. And people don't even know what they are looking at. I hope that people who think and look and act and strut around like the tv character House will go beyond diagnosing biologic derangement in the United States House, will go beyond writing a prescription for treatment, and will do what it is difficult for medical professionals to do and that is to work with the people that they are supposed to be helping come up with a plan that works, providing help in the real world.
I am appalled at this man's ugly mouth and lack of common sense. I despise what he said about rape. He is making light of it. Stress can interfere with ovulation, but stress also causes strokes and heart attacks. Let's think about that. The congressman is a physician-scientist. Did you notice that he is dismissive of the real dimensions of personal suffering, the consequences and repercussions of rape. He is describing the response of the organism to stress. I welcome Representative Gingrey to tear that statement apart.
Vincent and StMiller - we've taken a number of steps back in this country. It's called dogma over logic/facts. At some point, humanity, compassion doesn't factor in, either.
Robin....that's very true and what is particularly galling is that this congressman is likely at the front of the line condemning the over zealous Taliban for their religious excess and abuses without any recognition that he is guilty of the same misguided dogma.
140 negative comments, and not one from anyone with M.D. after their name. Just a bunch of "educated" liberals!
Elliot and assorted apologists,
Legitimate Rape may be a legal term under Sharia Law ( I don't think so ) or under Indian Law but it sure as hell isn't one in the US legal system. If you studied law you should get a refund.
Jkh
Some members of the GOP are setting medicine back centuries. Which studies did the doc quote ? What stats did the doc state ? There is a "recent" practice the doc apparently has not heard of. It uses science. There are certain guidelines to use when conducting a study and releasing it's results. It's NOT- oh by the way, I think from the past years of practicing I have noticed... How many journals have published his "study" ? Is he one of those physicians who can tell the sex of your child by the mother's outward appearance ?
The ploy by the Republicans is this: if they can get the definition of life changed from a 6 to 8 week fetus, whatever the time is, to a fertilized egg, then they can go after the Roe v Wade law.
A fertilized egg IS NOT a baby. There is NO MURDER when a fertilized egg is aborted. No different than when a woman has her period a week late.
My comment wasn't directed solely at you but also to everyone who treats the issue so cavalierly (like our politicians) and also to everyone who is saying that said Congressmen should experience it for themselves. I never, ever want anyone to experience what it feels like, and anyone who wishes it on anyone else is speaking from emotion and not sense.
I read your post at 1.105, and while I agreed with most of it there was one part that jumped out at me:
I would respectfully like to point out that it is your business. If you see an adult raping a child, it is your business and you would certainly want to make it your business (I hope.) If we as a society want to stamp out violence against women and stop such despicable things as rape from happening we have to move past acceptance of it and make it all our businesses, push for stronger legislation, advocate for education and better laws to protect those harmed by it.
Hey all you dummy liberals! MY WIFE WAS RAPED lastnight, thats why she is pregnant!! Now just because I said that, does it make it true? No? Didn't think so.
And for those of you pointing out that you have googled over and over the term "illagitimate rape" and found no legal definition... you are idiots! Google the term "assault magazine" and you will find no legal definition. So what are you trying to say exactly?? The term "illigitimate rape" has 1000 times more merrit than the term "assault magazine."
I agree with those who have in my opinion correctly identified this whole thing as being about abortion. The "pro" lifers know they can't ban abortion without allowing a rape and incest exception at least at first, hypocritical as those exemptions are if you believe abortion is murder as they claim to believe (some no doubt actually do).
So to get around these exemptions they are claiming a woman "legitimately" raped won't get pregnant, therefore if you got pregnant you actually weren't raped, therefore you can't have an abortion. It's a classic Catch 22.
The next thing you know they will trot out some former Republican OB/GYN or whatever to tell us that there is some weird genetic/allergic/astrological reason that you can't get pregnant from legitimate incest, therefore no abortion is justified there either.
They've already made it clear that threats to the health/life of the mother do not justify abortion. As soon as they close these other "loopholes" as they see them, then they will finally be able to impose their religious beliefs on all of us.
Also no one, NO ONE, is pro abortion. We much prefer there be no unwanted pregnancies and when the "pro" lifers start joining the rest of us in supporting means to that end - thorough sex education and free unlimited contraception and free voluntary sterilization, then maybe they will make more sense.
(And here's a news flash for these former "doctors". MOST sexual intercourse does not result in conception!)
Ebeneser H - I read a lot of these things on guns and your use of the term "assault magazine" is the first I've seen. I guess you just made it up?
Rape is a crime of violence, plain and simple. Being a person who has sat across the table from a defendant charged with the crime (I was an investigator), and being a victim of the crime, I have more experience on the subject than I'd like. But playing political football with victims in any fashion is beyond wrong. The senator can legislate about what he has in his pants.
Oh and BTW Ebeneser you need to spell illegitimate correctly to find in on Google. Maybe the third time will be a charm.
Wow, I knew that liberals are much smarter than the rest of us (they tell us often enough); but, I wasn't aware that they know more about gynecology than a licensed, experienced gynecologist. It gives me a whole new level of respect for Feisty and her merry band of blowhards!
Catching up on the comments and WOW. Let me get this straight, some Republicans are ready to literally start a war or start killing people when people start talking about gun regulations because of the 2nd Amendment, but they are for completely deleting the 1st Amendment's Separation of Church and State?
Let's put 2 and 2 together, many of the same people who want to ignore the Separation of Church and State are the same loonies that think Obama is a Muslim. So if we throw Separation of Church and State out the window, we are one step from Shariah Law, OMG! If Rush Limbaugh uses this conspiracy I just pulled out of my you know what on his circus of a radio show, I want some royalties.
TO: Randy-840072 who wrote:
[What is illegitimate rape?]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And who makes that decision, the "All Republican Male Vigina-Squad"?
Spider - Obviously just about anyone knows more than this particular licensed, experienced gynecologist.
Refer to the Oxford study
Theo - I agree with you. There are hacks that lose their licenses for a variety of reasons. I'm sure there are MD's that people would avoid at all costs due to their lack of skills/refusal to continue their education in their chosen field. What's worse is this guy uses a podium, too.
and this guy is a doctor, an ob/gyn no less? just think about the $175,000 these asshats are getting from our tax money...
the republican party is toast if they continue with this crazy talk...but, hey, that might not be so bad :)
I'm sad to say that it was Georgia Representative Paul Broun MD said that evolution is an idea from the frozen depths of hell. Georgia Representative Phil Gingrey MD is another in this class.
How 'bout the one who wrote complaining that people commenting on this story (140) do not like what the MD said but do not themselves have MD after their name? You people? Like we have no credibility?
They'll never learn.
Amanda:
Despite the fact that the mighty Amanda has spoken, the sperm do travel up the Fallopian tubes and can fertilize an egg released a couple days after sex. Instead of repeating yourself, perhaps you should unplug your ears.
St Miller:
You read the comments from that lawyer defending those people being railroaded in India and you think to yourself...."thankfully we don't have that "torture a confession out of some random person and everyone will presume he's guilty" way of thinking in America anymore."
Oh damn! Wait...yep....we still do.
amanda: You are grinding your axe with my posts.
I would respectfully like to point out that it is your business.
Of course preventing crime is my business, and I've, on several occasions, risked my safety to prevent these events.
You know as well as I that my comment was not even remotely related to the scenario you presented. I'll rephrase it to reduce potential spin.
I had hoped for better.
I'm confused a bit here. Akin is clearly a fool for what he said. There is arguing that. What I don't get is how some people don't realize that there have been people who have cried rape and were lying. It's partially because of these liars that rape victims face such a battle in court. How can people not understand the concept of legitimate vs someone making it up. It exists. You can't deny it.
Back to Akin - well I can't imagine being so stupid as to think that a woman's body shuts down to prevent pregnancy from rape. He should have hid in a cave after those comments.
Darn! - twice I referred to this guy as "senator." My mistake when I know he's a congressman.
You know, this really isn't an issue of who has a better grasp of medical data so much as it is an issue of just one abysmally stupid political move.
At this point, if he had the brains that God gave a squirrel (sorry squirrels, wherever you are) he'd know that the information, even if it were the gospel truth, would not sway one single, solitary person to his side of the argument.
How a Republican elected official could be this phenominally out of touch as to even approach this subject again ... well, there just aren't words to convey my disgust and confusion. Just one more stupid, out-of-touch, polarizing comment from a politician who has NO vision for the country or the promotion of liberty.
It's official - There is NO opposition party in Washington. We have effectively become a monarchy.
And most important of all, what akins said was not politically correct!!!!!
back to the stone age with you troglodytes!!!
keep talking pubs!
republicans, the party of freedom and personal responsibility... focused on everyone elses sex organs and what they do with them. keep your laws and god the hell out of womens bodies!!!
Some people just do not know when to let sleeping dogs sleep.....
Just when the GOP was hoping people would let this one go away quietly, perticularly since the idiot that said it in the first place lost, another has to open his mouth and get it back in the news. Guess that is what is called freedom of speech. And freedom of speech means freedom of stupid speech too. Wouldn't have it any other way.
only a republican would upon hearing the words "i was raped" FIRST jump to the conclusion that "she may be lying." thats why you talk about it, thas why you say it. you wont admit it, unless youre as dumb as akin, but you still thi nk that somehow when a woman is raped its just gotta be her fault. she shouldnt have been wearing that! she shouldnt have been there!
you KNOW you think that $hit!
It's a pattern.
Remember the Bush appointee Dr. David Hager, who was also an OB-GYN, was charged for anally raping his wife in her sleep. His explanation was 'i missed'. So he had just intended to vaginally rape her in her sleep.
With all of these idiotic statements coming out about women ... you know how these southern yahoos feel about having a Black president ... the sky is falling down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or should I say ... fell down ... TWICE .............
believerof - I, for one, don't like to believe in the worst in people. I can't imagine raping someone, and through projection it's tough for me to imagine another person raping someone. While the vast majority of people who claim they were raped were actually raped, that doesn't exclude the need to make sure it's legitimate, does it?
So while people shouldn't jump to the conclusion that the victim is lying, they also shouldn't jump to the conclusion that the defendant is guilty. Judgement should be reserved for a time when the facts have been presented.
Pvblivs - railroaded? You think those guys were forced into a confession? I would like to point out that they have DNA evidence in the case of the India gang rape.
I once had a family doctor tell me I had a bladder infection due to lack of sex and for me to go home and have sex and if I thought I was pregnant to pee on a newspaper and if it changed colors that meant a positive pg and then come back to his office. I was young and called my mother and told her, she thought I was kidding. I never went back to that scary quack which is what this guy is.
Yep, doctors are like scientists, every 20 years, we learn that the ones 20 years earlier were wrong about almost everything.
Perhaps those of you who are trying to justify and explain away the comment about legitimate rape are somehow justifying something in your past that makes you feel incredibly guilty and ashamed. There is no other reasonable explanation for defending rape in any form. Unless you have been raped, please don't pretend to have any expertise in this matter. If you had any intelligence, you would probably just STFU.
St Miller:
What we know, because all parties involved agree on these facts, is that these people were taken into custody; they were held for days without access to a lawyer and before they were allowed to see light of day, they had "confessed." Yes, I believe they were forced into confessing.
Now, once a police force is willing to use such "agressive interrogation tactics" to achieve a confession, I start wondering about other things. If ethics aren't an issue, it's not hard for them to "obtain a sample" suitable for planting at the scene. After all, there is no pesky defense council to act as a witness and say they did that.
Yep, doctors are like scientists, every 20 years, we learn that the ones 20 years earlier were wrong about almost everything.
kimH - just because the ignorant masses are loud doesn't mean they are right and that everyone else should shut up. I am right in saying that the majority of people who claim they are raped are telling the truth. I am also right in saying that there are a small minority of cases where the claims are false. That's why I don't understand the objection to the term "legitimate rape." Was it just due to the context in which Akin used it? Obviously the rest of what he said was insanely ignorant, but I don't understand the outcry over "legitimate rape." Most rape accusations are legitimate, but last time I checked, "most" is not synonymous with "all," thus the need for a distinction.
I don't see what the debate is about on Newsvine. I would expect to see a pretty unified opinion on this garbage. This politician is just as moronic as Akin. He is fabricating unlikely scenarios in which Akin's comments are partially right, and that should be obvious to any person with a high school education.
Let's make one thing crystal clear right now. This scenario he gave doesn't hold water because the girl he described simply was not raped. Calling it "rape" doesn't earn it some version of the term. The girl LIED. Therefore it isn't any kind of rape at all. So attaching "legitimate" or "illegitimate" in front of it is completely moot. Because the girl LIED about said rape!!!
If someone had sex and then regretted it, it isn't rape at all. It doesn't need a special term to differentiate the 2. Is that too much for some of you to comprehend???
No, no, he was NOT right. Because the only way that this scenario would work is if the rape victim knew she was going to be raped at some point, thereby making her too stressed out to ovulate. He even confirmed in the very next sentence that once she has ovulated all bets are off, so he even contradicted his only logic!!! How many rape victims get a heads up a week before they are attacked?
Let's say for the sake of argument that a woman truly has the ability to "shut that thing down", even by his standards she ain't gonna be able to do it as she is being raped, so therefore this theory is also moot.
Do you see yet that these political chumps think you are all morons? That they can just say the sky is green and come up with some BS twisted version of science in order for you to agree with them? AND YOU WILL!!! ..........................But the really messed up part is that half the time they don't even need to use twisted, false logic. Half of the time all you people need is to just see a "D" or an "R" in front of their names and you think "Oh look he is from MY party, that must mean he is right!" and you will just eat it up.
EVERYONE in politics has an agenda. Even Obama. If you think otherwise then you are a fool.
Bob the outcry is due to the fact that most people aren't confusing an action with an accusation the way you are. The campaign to turn "Legitimate rape" into an accepted term has an underlying agenda to make the action itself split into varying degrees of wrong. And it shouldn't be. Rape is wrong, regardless of what the girl was wearing or how promising of a future the rapist had. And those are the most common excuses given when someone defends the actual act of rape itself.
A mere accusation is something completely different. I can say someone punched me and be telling a lie, but no one is going to call it an "illegitimate punch". They are going to say "did he punch you or didn't he?". And the answer is either yes or no. There is no in between.
So why then are so many lawmakers and lobbyists trying to push this term? Because this will lead in to a debate of what kinds of rape we should take seriously. Was is a total stranger pulling a scared woman into a back alley? Was it a drunk frat boy who humped a passed out co-ed? Believe it or not there are actual arguments being made that we should treat both of those scenarios differently, with the latter being seen as "illegitimate", because the victim asked for by not drinking responsibly and wearing slutty clothes.
This is the reason for the outcry and the objection. Because we cannot allow politicians to make it easier for rapists to get away with it. Regardless of whether or not they wear a varsity jacket.
If we must apply the word "legitimate" to cases of rape then the word "accusation" darn well better be included. Otherwise it will turn into legitimizing the action instead of the accusation.
Even if Akins was right in his insane assertion, he is way wrong way before saying that. The government has no focking business making those sorts of decisions for us. Sticking an electrical device in a woman's vagina to show her what's in there is a terrible invasion of her privacy.
We REALLY have to ask ourselves, "Why is this an issue?" A person's body is their own. That fact is the seat of freedom. Without personal freedom, you haven't got any.
The republican party will not regain the White House until it rids itself of the Tea Party
Wow, if that's the case then people are pickier than I thought over verbiage. If it could potentially set some sort of legal precedent, I certainly understand the need for clarity. If it's just an un(der)rehearsed answer to a question at a debate, the context of his remarks make it pretty clear that he meant, "someone who was truly raped." I would think people would be focused on the rest of the garbage he spewed instead of this. Oh well.
Did any of you uber liberal bigoted bullies ever stop to ask if there was ANY possibility that there might be some logic and medical evidence to Akins' point. Or do you just take your extreme leftist view, interpret the statement accordingly, and run with the latest ridicule romp. You all need tranquilizers.
What is amazing to me is the people actually voted for this kind of republican to be holding any kind of office anywhere. IF anyone has noticed how republicans have voted the past few years they will notice that the republicans have not voted in any way to protect the rights of women...no matter what they make claim of. To me the republicans are pushng for only the rights of the wealthy..and everyone else is left on their own. Granted...both parties are made up of millionaires who no doubt are going to watch out more for themselves and the wealthy donors....and so far they have done a great job of that. However, for all of the talk by both parties..espectially the republicans the last time around....not one politican has done anything about jobs. Not one bill has been developed by either party that goes toward developing a single job much less to cover the number of jobs that congress has allowed big busines to take from this country in the name of profit . Interesting to me however that in doing so they , companies, go to a country like China...which controls everything its people do to a huge degree...even Romney likes China for that very reason...cheap controled by government labor.
Phil Gingrey is a "check bouncing" part time "embalmer", part time "taxidermist", calling Himself a Doctor who represents Georgia's 11th Congressional district. He moves among His dimwitted and about half, inbred constituency with the ease and admiration of a God returning the shoes that went missing the last time He visited. The son-of-a-bitch is a republican tea party charlatan who doesn't know His ass from a mud crack, nor does He possess the integrity of a Jackal mending the broken leg of a chicken.
Tony,
Sure we did. We thought about it as long as it took us to read what he said. And then we thought about how stupid it was.
Taking the time to ponder stupidity doesn't make it any less stupid, it just makes you slow.
Tony,
Yes, and then I talked to my neighbor, who is a doctor, and we both laughed!
I Wonder,
You are the world champion at giving excuses! how sad!
Tony, if what Akin's said makes sense to you then you too need a brain! I'll take what my doctor neigh said and that what we laughed at as the truth. So obvious to the educated and so UN to the deaf, dumb and republican!
This guy is a great example of why I left the republican party. While I support most of the ideals of the right, they are far too stupid to actually get it out correctly.
We need an intelligent third party badly in this country.
And you can find no evidence of ignorance of attitude by a democrat? This is not really a party thing...and dont think that a third party would be exempt from stupidity.
Perhaps the statement of the VP that"Republicans are going to put yall back in chains" is further evidence. And he is still in office.
Jindal: Republicans need to stop saying ‘stupid things’
Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/268633-jindal-republicans-need-to-stop-saying-stupid-things#ixzz2HnHewv9j
To Randy ...
If a girl has had sex, and isn't raped but claims to have been raped ... THEN IT'S NOT RAPE. There is no such thing as "legimate rape". Is that such a hard concept??
Pvblivs - the defendants in Inida aren't even claiming that they were falsely accused!
StMiller:
According to the report, they are claiming they didn't do it and the police tortured a "confession" out of them. Quite a few of the msn commenters said it was "good" that they were tortured.
Publics - I can understand that the confessions should be considered questionable, but they also have CCTV footage of the suspects getting on and off the bus, they have the living attacked male as a witness, they have DNA taken from the body of the raped female....it's not as simple as your supposition that these guys have been railroaded.
I suppose those thousands of babies born as a result of gang rape of thousands of women in the Congo and Rwanda during the genocides of the 1990s were the exception to the rule?
Let me see if I got this right now.
So some big burly ex-con, named Buba, catches Mr. Akin alone. Drags him into an ally, beats and rapes his ignorant arse (pun intended). And if Mr. Akin doesn't get pregnant, it WASN'T "legitimate rape?
Huh. Imagine that.
" ... stop to ask if there was ANY possibility that there might be some logic and medical evidence to Akins' point ... "
Well yes. Yes I did. And you know what? I'm still waiting for Mr. Akins to supply ANY logic or medical evidence. Or for ANY credible source to offer any. Oh say, like the Surgeon General of the United States. Or the head of the AMA. Maybe the Journal of Medicine.
But you know what? There just isn't any. None at all. So where does that leave us. It leaves us to believe these two angry old white men. Or the complete and total lack of support for them, from the rest of the medical community.
Huh. Imagine that.
Amanda - Thanks for being rational about this issue. It appears that the mechanism of reproduction is not widely understood by a lot of people in this country and I suspect around the world. I am also in that number, so a number of questions.
Male orgasm occurs during ejaculation, does Female orgasm play any part in delivering the ejaculate to the uterus or fallopian tubes?
I had heard that normal conception occurs in the fallopian tubes rather than in the uterus and that it takes several days for the zygote to make its way into the uterus, attach, and pregnancy to actually begin. You on the other had appear to believe that fertilization takes place in the uterus. Perhaps both scenarios occur, I don't know.
As I understand it, sperm swim in seminal fluid which also provides nourishment and protection for the little swimmers. For that reason I question whether the sperm could make its way into the uterus much less the fallopian tube or tubes without the contractions of female orgasm. (I am not saying that female orgasm is voluntary, I just think there is a biological need for it other than pleasure, but may be wrong)
The understood duration between intercourse and pregnancy is very unclear. As mentioned above, pregnancy begins when the growing zygote attaches itself to the uterus wall and begins nourishing itself from the mother. I have been given various times between male ejaculation and conception and pregnancy, several hours for the sperm to arrive in or near the fallopian tubes, several days for the egg and sperm to come in contact and conception to occur and several days for the resultant zygote to grow and attach to the uterus wall and pregnancy to begin.
I believe that understanding these mechanisms are important because a lot of states are trying to make law about reproduction without knowing what actually takes place. Defining the start of life at conception appears to be the most egregious of these efforts. Life began billions of years ago and if your are presently alive, nothing has died between then and now. This may be a quibble, but they would have a better case if they stated that a new "life cycle" begins at conception. Declaring that a zygote, a ball of cells looking for a place to grow to be a human being or a baby is not useful.
OMG, it is no wonder Obama got elected, the reading comprehension skills of the left is absolutely abysmal. Evidently you are all recent graduates of the public skool system. And it is no wonder we (conservatives) can not converse with you. The amount of stupid revealed in the comments above is staggering.
I saw several comments about "Legitimate rape". I thought he did a pretty good job of describing this with the example of the young girl and boy friend scenario, but I guess not. So for all you limited intellectuals, I will remind you of a case "The Duke LaCross case". Now then, was that a legitimate rape? Well maybe according to you idiots, but to me, NO. "But, but, but, she said she was raped, so it must true.". So this is not a LEGITIMATE RAPE. (though in this case there wasn't even intercourse) But how many times have women cried rape after being seduced, (willing partner at the time, only to be remorseful afterward), or used "rape" as a vendetta? Do you think that stuff only happens in movies? Get real. So here it is, a LEGITIMATE RAPE, is one in which a woman was forcibly made to have sex with a man against her will.(or you can interchange sexes to suit what ever perversion fits your fancy). And I think all conservatives know and understand that. Even those of us in the GOP.
Secondly, ovulation, can be interrupted for any number of reasons, diet, exercise, stress, illness etc. Granted, this is not true for all women, and the severity of each of these reasons has varying effects on the reproductive system of the varying women. If I am not mistaken, many if not most female athletes when in full training, quit menstruating, during the entire period of training. (pardon the pun) And they begin again when they cease training. So what part of "Women have a way of shutting down that whole process" befoggles you people? (Oh don't get me wrong, I fully understand that this is not an instant on/off sort of thing) But women do have a way of "shutting down" the whole thing, if they are in an extremely stressful situation for an extended period of time, (it is a natural biological survival function) I can not speak for Akin if he understood what the Doctors told him or not. But as a Republican, I can say that I know that the stress caused by a rape, has only a miniscule(to be almost non existent) chance of interrupting the ovulation cycle in order to prevent a pregnancy. Is this not what he said:
thirdly, Human life begins at conception. PERIOD. this is an evolutionist, atheist speaking, even though it is contrary to what those idiots in the SCOTUS believe. Those cells can only develop(evolve, grow, become, etc.) into one thing, a human being. PERIOD. To think of it any other way is merely to rationalize the procedure, to allow a consequence free life style.
And I find it sad and disgusting that you people ridicule another person's religion because you can not understand it. For some people, their faith is important. And I know many of you will find this an alien concept, but they have principles. And those principles do not allow them to destroy one of God's creations. I know some of you are Atheist, well, Atheism is a religion too.
Now for the abortion segment and this is only my opinion:
A women's choice is when and who she has sex with. If she is impregnated by a rapist, then it was not her choice. (since we have established that this is a legitimate case, she can have an abortion, DNA will collected from they embryo, for the prosecution of the sperm 'donor', and somebody goes to jail)
And lastly, the only reason this got blown out of proportion is because you idiots thought he said one thing, "that rape is legitimate", when he did not.
And just for the record, my belief is, "any man convicted of raping a woman, with DNA evidence in support of that conviction, should be castrated."
Something else I want all you women to think about, and think long and hard on this.
Why is rape Illegal? Because we men say it is. Think about that. Just look at how women are treated on the middle East, or Asia.
Scary isn't it?
DumbFarmBoy
I personally object to your including yourself as a man. That is not the sort of comment a real man would make.
And also why even bother defending this guy's remarks from a "scientific perspective" it has already been thoroughly debunked months ago. This is news because some people are so dumb they don't know when to close shut up.
@ Hal
You are an idiot, how's that. I just debunked your whole comment.
He should have made his comments during the campaign. That way he could have been culled by the voters.
Fail
As a member of the GOP, I thought stupid. Why dont you just be quite OMG.
Someone should rape these GOP pigs and then ask them whether it was "legitimate" or not.
So Cameron, you're saying some people deserve to be raped? That is there is sufficient reason such as straying too far from your political dogma? The man is a doctor dividing scientific fact from fiction and you would have him raped, but of course want someone else to do it. I'm sure you are just trying to make an ignorant point, and your hatred, anger, self righteousness is clear for all to see. What you're saying is that there is legitimate reason for rape, even if you are trying to make light of it and express your point through some sort of twisted sarcasm...
"That is there is sufficient reason such as straying too far from your political dogma?"
Considering some of the vile statements from Reich Wingers, STUFF your faux outrage, boy.
"The man is a doctor"
Tha "man" is a QUACK, an idiot and a fool.
Let's not stoop so low as to joking about commiting a rape...
I guess class is something that you can explain to people but you can't understand it for them
You're right, I should have worded my comment differently. I do not wish rape upon anyone, but the point I was making is, If these clowns or someone close to them were raped, would they be so cavalier about it and stand around discussing whether or not it was "legitimate"?
A doctor would know that wine doesn't induce ovulation. For that you need clomifene citrate.
Ron White said it best.... YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID
Wow we need to find a way to get rid of the far right, and the far left.
pragmatic - i believe the wine wasnt used to induce ovulation, but to induce relaxation.
not meant to condone what he said, hell no - just to make that a little clear.
seemed pretty obvious to me, as that what I use wine for - relaxation, not ovulation :-)
When a woman sreams rape and it didn't happen! Remember the Duke Lacrosse case!
If a cop finds two high school kids in the back of Mom's minivan on a Friday night at the local "make-out spot", and decides to take a closer look, he is fairly likely to find consentual sex going on in that minivan. If one of the kids turned 18 last month, but the other won't be 18 for three more months, the cop has just uncovered a felony rape in my state. The girl was 18. The guy was her boyfriend. She was having fun. The sex was her choice. Do you support sending that girl to an adult prison for many years and then placing her on the sex offenders list for the rest of her life? NO??? Then I guess there might be a rape that is NOT legitimate!
BOB You are a total @!$%#. not just the part around it the whole damn thing. You need to be raped in the ass like you want to happen others
So I scream rape and accuse you of it, does that really mean you raped me. NO just means that I LIED, I know you IGNORANT ASSES like LIARS, or you would NOT of re-elected the LIAR in Chief.
Ron White got that right you can NOT fix these stupid DEMORATS.
I just use chloroform to aid in ovulation...or roofies, ya know?
roadrep - ...except for that is NOT how the laws are written. For example, in my state, the age of consent is 16 for anyone; as low as 14 for anyone who is less than 5 years of age apart; and as low as 12 years of age under marriage.
What state is THAT?!?!? Afghanistan? Pakistan?
RedBullWife, thank you for the clarification on how the laws are written in your state. Now can you clarify exactly how the laws are written in Bob's state, and exactly how Bodb is wrongi n his understanding as you seem so sure of?
Jogrider - No problem!
He has stated he lives in Massachusetts, where the age of consent is 16. His hypothetical 18-year-old is free and clear, unless of course he is a teacher or in another position of power...in which case I would hope we could all agree that the parents would be in the right. Most states have close in age exceptions, and Massachusetts would do well to get with that program (in my opinion), but he's still incorrect.
You're welcome!
WOW, stupid is as stupid does, seems like the GOP could learn something from Forest Gump. I don't know which is more incredible, that these idiots would actually say something this stupid publicly, or that the usual RWNJ flatlander trolls would post in defense of these brain dead idiots. I was actually going to post that even our usual idiots wouldn't touch this statement, but as soon as I thought it Elliot, Witchrunner and a few others proved me wrong. I'm beginning to think that they think real science is akin to witchcraft, welcome back to the late 1600's and the Salem Witch Trials mentality.
Cameron - I hope you get raped and nobody believs you, just like juanita Broaddrick.
Nice.....(sarcasm)
Genghis Khan, raped so many women that something like 80 + % of the world population has some of his DNA! How's that theory working out Rep. Phil Gingrey?
I'm not quite sure why male Republican politicians insist on offering their views about rape. Apparently you do have to hit them over the head to get them to stop.
Several times......I think they are part Klingon..... (sorry for the Star Trek reference).
You're correct, and even though I hate to say it, it's the same group of old white republican men in power, who have become experts on the WOMAN's body, in cases of rape, and abortion, telling them, the WOMAN, what's good for her and what's not. It's amazing any women vote for these idiots!!
Hey MoronTom, These Republicans were simply answering bait questions posed to them by an ultra-liberal media for the sole purpose of inflaming the stoopid libtard sheep. Why aren't these questions asked of the lib politicians? Stoopid libtard sheep.
And Moshu, You make a good point. All women should be voting for rapists like BillyBoy Clinton, right? You libtards are sooo stoopid. Anything to further the agenda.
LOL.....Seems you're not capable of constructive replies without showing your ignorance.
Since what you've mentioned of Bill Clinton has never been proven, you're telling me you have inside information that it did occur?
I don't hate republicans, I just like to point out the hypocrisy of some of you, like you, but undoubtedly YOU hate anything not republican by your replies.
Sometimes you have to grow up and practice voting your conscious, not a party line. As an Independent myself, I’ve voted for Nixon, Reagan, and Poppa Bush. Bet you’ve never voted for a democraticPresident.
Mo, could you repeat that, please? I'm too ignorant to understand. Maybe dumb it down for me. Use lib-speak - that might be dumb enough.
Wow... Thanks... Now I feel sorry for cats.
Did you learn about bait questions and "gotcha" results from Romney's polling in the run-up to the last election or what?
Catlover,
How's the water and rice supply in your bunker?
I understand that they are coming to your little playhouse to take your guns away. Maybe you better move to the Philippines before they catch you.
Yep, you libs are starting to show your colors again. Name-calling and insults are back. And Moshu, look at the Democrats who have run since 1978 when I became old enough. You are right, I've never voted for a Dem presidential candidate. Couldn't stomach it.
so catlover? the fact that your first post starts off with Moron Tom and then goes on to Libtards, etc. is OK but when other posters call you names back, they are creating name calling and insults.
You can dish it out; can't take it though! Typical of your kind!
cat lover: The upside is that they never disappoint. lib, lib, lib, lib, lib, lib, lib, lib, lib.............."liberal" - "tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others" (Encarta) Scumbags....jeez. "Tolerant" - not on my watch, they won't.
"libtards are soooo stoopid". Whatever you say.
No, actually these republicans are poster boards for everything bad about inbreeding and which Catlover59 seems to enjoy reinforcing so much.
Catlover - so you are smart enough to know what's happening here, the lib tard media keeps lobbing "gotcha" questions to republicans...but unlike you, they're too stupid to realize whats happening?
Thats a better explaination for all this...really, you're going with the "we're too stupid to not answer that question" defense?
SDN. What does that mean? Gilbo, I used to never say things like that, but found that by holding myself to a higher standard I was only allowing myself to be insulted and ridiculed by the libs. I found that there is no such thing as intelligent discourse when conversing with the typical libs on this site. Yes, I've devolved into what I despise, but only so I can have an effect on the STOOPID LIBTARDS. HAHAHAHA Stoopid libtards are so much fun.
cat: Next time I'll be less obtuse.
I'll stick with Encarta, and hold a certain pride in having respect for others (those that respect others). I fully realize your disdain for the literate definition of 'liberal'. It is, however, a standard rather than a term of derision - which, of course, flies in the face of your 'devolution. "Tolerance" is something you might want to entertain at some point in your life.
Intelligent discourse? May I suggest you first lose your 'lib' fixation, and cultivate at least some level of objectivity. There is not such thing as 'you libs' - as there is no such thing as 'you cons'.
Poor cats.
Awesome, Sunny Delight is back. How are the clubs?
SDN, So the definition of "liberal" is - "tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others"? Odd, because that's pretty much the opposite of what the libs show these days. Remember, to a lib, tolerance is a one way street. Think and do as they say or face their never-ending wrath. Libs are only tolerant of those who share their views, and they are severely intolerant of anyone holding an opposing view. We see it every day here at lib-central. Yes, there's that term again, "lib". I use it to make a point. Liberals are not liberal by the definition you provided. Conservatives are much closer to that definition than the typical lib. Conservatives believe a person has the right to believe and behave any way they want as long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights and sensibilities of others. The libs have perverted the liberal movement into something that requires everyone to embrace every pathetic, perverse, or degenerate view or lifestyle that any person wants to force upon us, or risk being ridiculed and ostracized. Just look at this article and the comments posted by the supposed "liberals." If a person does not agree, they are labeled bigots, haters, and worse. Read your definition, then ask yourself if you approve of my way of thinking. Why do you hate me? Is it because I'm different? Think about it. I hate no one, but I won't be forced to pretend to like seeing things like the swinging dicks in a Gay Pride parade. Some things belong at home. The most intolerant people are the libs. Disagree if you will, but that's the truth I see. I'm not alone.
Catlover: Better stick to your cats rather than posting your thoughts here. You believe conservatives that would impose their values and beliefs on everyone are by some definition more tolerant and respectful of others? As a conservative you believe telling a women who was raped and becomes pregnant that she can't abort a fetus is in your world respectful of what she wants and believes. What planet do you live on? On planet earth we believe having the right to determine what you do with your own body is personal not to be determined by people like you and Akins.
Thanks, Larry, for jumping on the bandwagon. A little late, but no matter. It is the liberals who are forcing others to accept their values. Or should I say non-values. For some reason the libs feel an anything-goes society is preferable to a societyy that embraces some sort of values. The one point you make, about abortion, is not even a mainstream conservative view. I, like most others, believe in the right to abortion. Too bad the liberal media wants to divide us by making a religious objection into some sort of non-existant societal objection. Maybe you should jumb off the bandwagon until you have real thoughts of you own, Larry. And learn to be tolerant of others, like the conservatives are. Why do you hate me? Is it because I'm different?
One other small point, Larry. Why does it matter if a woman was impregnated through rape? This nonsense that somehow abortion is okay only in cases of rape or incest is ridiculous. A life is a life. Abortion is abortion. It doesn't matter how the conception occurs. I believe in the right to abortion, whenever and wherever deemed necessary. Get a grip on reality. Maybe get away from lib-central? Try it, you might learn something.
Keep babbeling that crazy @!$%#! But I still feel sorry for you pets. They don't deserve your crazy @!$%#.
Why do you hate me, Delight? Is it because I'm different?
cat: Curious why you say I 'hate you'? I've never expressed or implied that sentiment. Your own creation - not mine.
"Liberals are not liberal by the definition you provided." I did not provide the definition. Encarta and Webster get the credit. Some, including me, consider these sources to be the acknowledge experts on the subject. Everyone packing their own definition of every word in the English language would make communication virtually impossible. Perhaps the current conversation is a useful example of that problem. Your lengthy treatise on your definition of 'libs' holds no interest to me. It's entirely personal, useless in an objective discussion involving more than one person.
I'm not in any position to approve or disapprove of your 'way of thinking'. I haven't the ego for such a responsibility. I do, however, respect your right to think whatever you like. Imposing restrictions on other's personal rights? I do not, and likely never will agree with that perspective.
I have one bumper sticker on my car - it doesn't say 'cons suck', or 'odumbo'. It says "Coexist". I consider that the only possible solution. What are your alternatives?
I just noticed that you've asked others why they 'hate you'. Has anyone made such a statement?
Soooooooooooo it's the stupid question, not the stupid answer?
I think I finally see the problem here. I tend to take my time in assessing challenges.
"Libs" are those promoting ideas such as personal freedoms (for everyone) to those that simply haven't the respect for others that such concepts require. It's not that 'libs' demand that you exercise personal freedoms, they do, however, demand that option. Some of us simply cannot face the responsibilities of these options.
No one hates those that cannot accept those responsibilities. Some certainly dislike those that insist that others don't exercise those rights.
SDN, you did provide the definition for our discussion. It isn't right for you to backtrack on it now. And, yes, many commentors have expressed what can only be described as hatred toward me. That doesn't matter though. I know it's hard for some people to understand, but often my comments and questions are put out there simply to stimulate others' minds. I ask "Why do you hate me?" for the sole purpose of getting the so-called libs to ask themselves if they are truly the tolerant people they pretend to be. As I'm sure you've noticed, most are not. Most pretend tolerance but cannot accept the fact that another has a differing view, belief or opinion. They hav such low self esteem that they feel anyone who disagrees with them is somehow attacking them personally, rather than having a different life view. I would like people to actually think about the things they and others say and write, rather than just spouting the talking points they think make them more acceptable to the fragment of society they think will welcome them. I am perfectly capable of intelligent discourse, and I welcome it, but the fact is, here at lib-central (oops, I did it again), intelligent discourse is next to impossible. There are far too many closed-minded, self-rightous "liberals" here who refuse to discuss anything without insults and name-calling.
Sorry SDN, It took me a while to post that last one. I didn't see your unintelligent and derogatory last post until it was too late. I actually thought we were having an intelligent discussion. Silly me, I forgot I was dealing with stoopid libtards. You almost had me fooled. There must be a little bit of sheep in me after all. Ouch. You have it sort of right there, libs don't demand that everyone practice their behavior. They do, however, demand the everyone approves of any behavior anyone feels the need to throw at them. In your face perversions will not be accepted. Stoopid libtards. HAHAHAHA
cat: I think your last post pretty much illustrates your perspective.
"In your face perversions will not be accepted. Stoopid libtards. HAHAHAHA"
I think an intelligent discussion, all things considered, might not be feasible at this point.
God, I hope you're a troll.
Wow catlover589... what an idiot. No need to reply directly just read whats posted. It says is all.
If your posting a defense or explanation for the "Dr" OR blaming this on liberals OR debating the ability of raped women's ability to get pregnant OR the legitimacy of a rape is insane. Please don't reproduce.
No one posting here does more to harm their own agenda then that crazy ass cat person. It makes me suspicious because no one is that stupid. Maybe the publishers shill ????
Who cares who posed the question? It was the Republicans who gave the stupid answers.
Those questions probably are asked of "lib politicians." But, medically correct answers don't make the news.
Yep, you stoopid libtards have proven me right many times over just on this single thread. Congratulations. Stoopid libtards are soo much fun! You can't take the blinders off, even for a moment. You sheep are stoopid. HAHAHAHAHA
cat: Yet more brilliance. Your vocabulary is shrinking at the same rate as your credibility and your 'likes'.
Well, SDN, I finally checked out your comments to others. You had me fooled. That isn't hard, because I tend to believe in the best of people. I think people are straight-forward. I've been fooled before, so don't think you're special. Believe me, you are definitely not special. Every single comment of yours has been just talking trash about the poster. You don't post any original thoughts, only unintelligent, uninformed trash, meant only to insult the real posters here, the people who have real thoughts that they want to put out for intelligent discussion. You sir, are a typical libtard. The kind of lib-troll so prevelant here at lib-central who's only goal is to insult intelligent people hard enough that they will simply shut up and go away. Those are the true libtard tactics. Congratulations. Your simple-mindedness wins often enough, and has enough libtard fans here at lib-central, that you can feel like a real winner. Yessiree bub, you are definitely a winner. Too bad you will never recognize that the prize you win is failure. HAHAHAHA Stoopid libtards are sooo stoopid. Thanks for the "tolerance" moron. Typical libtard.
So I guess the logic is that since in some cases of rape, a woman does not get pregnant because of the adreneline rush of fear, those that do end up pregnant must still have the rape baby?
Nope...it doesn't matter...you always have the baby.....
pat
The daughter of a good freind of mine was raped as a teen. Their family does not believe that abortion is right. She had the baby and the child has grown up to be a wonderful young teenager who is deeply loved. It is your choice to abort or not abort but you shouldn't look down on another persons decision.
I'm going to add that my freinds daughter is white and the rapist is black. They are a good conservative family and race had nothing to do with their decision. Kind of shoots another stereotype out of the water for you libs, doesn't it?
Not so much, no. There are exceptions to every rule.
No they just threw away their daughters future over their beliefs.
The important point is that your friend's daughter had a choice. Isn't that the whole issue? In fact that situation sort of affirms the lack of validity of Akin's assertion that a woman's body can control conception in a case of "legitimate rape."
JH-
It is your choice to abort or not abort but you shouldn't look down on another persons decision.
Seems that you believe in the right to choose then? Thanks for the support.
JH, the point is that your friend's daughter chose to have the baby, and that's just great, but the republican pigs want to deny another woman that right to choose not to bear the child.
I am conservative and firmly believe in the right to choose. I have never stated anything different and many conservatives feel the same. But I don't want anyone to tell me or you to pay for anyones abortion except in special circumstances. MOST abortions in this country are for convenience. If you want one of those pay for it yourself. The lefties just like to say ALL Americans on the right are totally against abortion. That is just another lefty loon lie.
Chuck - and the democrat pigs want all babies aborted. See how easy it is to spread a lie?
Since the girl you reference did get pregnant, then it wasn't a legitimate rape. She was just covering up the fact she loved/lusted after this Black man. That is what the doctor is saying. Try to keep up.
No ones saying we should all pitch in for each others abortions in all circumstances. they cost about $700 right now, we only want to keep the right from making it illegal to get one. We try to increase contraception use as to prevent the need for an abortion in the first place. Just because your putting money into the system doesnt mean you have any responsibility what someone chooses to do to themselves.
JH-479998
It is against the law to use taxpayer funds for abortion. The debate is over whether to keep abortion legal. If you think abortion should be safe, legal and rare, then you agree with the Democratic plaform. If you think abortion should be outlawed, then you agree with the Republicans'.
No JH not at all, the issue is choice not race. JH the Republican stance is Pro Life, meaning absolutly no Abortion should be legal. If that does not represent your beliefs, great, but you would be a minority.
Amy - you are an idiot, are there no democrats who are against abortions?
ding ding ding, WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
That's the premise. The numbers don't back it up, though. Rape victims are slightly more likely to get pregnant.
JH-479998
The Democratic platform for 2012 reads:
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/04/democrats-draw-criticism-for-no-exceptions-abortion-platform/#ixzz2HglI9AYM
What I get confused over is the pro-life republicans are prepared to MAKE all women have babies regardless of circumstance, but then they turn right around and cut the budget to school breakfast for the disenfranchised babies, you know, the women having babies who really can't afford to care for them? How does that work, is that for all babies or just the ones born from meth-heads, and crack-heads? Denying them free school breakfast is kind of like starving them….
I say meth-heads, and crack-heads, because over many local blogs from many local newspapers nationwide you can read how hateful, "pro-choice" people, complain about the women in the housing projects just "spitting" babies out, so is pro-choice for a select group of women, or ALL women? And if it's for ALL women, how can the statement "spitting" babies out be "pro-choice?"
As a man, I'm pro-choice, I think the decision should be made by the woman, her God, her spouse, and her doctor if necessary, not some hateful old white republican dudes elected to office. I say "hateful old white republican dudes," because those are exactly the ones who are pushing this issue.
The Republican platform on abortion for 2012 reads:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/23/full-gop-platform-statement-on-abortion/
JH,
Your statement doesn't actually say anything about Amy's intellect, but it does say a lot about you.
JH, that just says that they may have pushed their agenda onto their daughter thus "forcing" her to bring a pregnancy to term when she may not have wanted to. Obviously, this may not be the case, but it is the case often in these types of circumstances. I am a single(divorced long ago) mother and I raised my daughter to have her own set of morals and values, while guiding her along. I never pushed my beliefs onto her. I gave her free will to come to her own decisions on a variety of social issues. She is 23 years old and she is recently pregnant(bf is completely on board), and the timing is not the best for her in a few regards, but I felt it was important to talk with her about all of her options; adoption, termination or to go through with the pregnancy and become a mother. She chose to become a mother as she did not feel that termination was an option for her. I respect her decision, again I respect HER DECISION. She had my full support no matter which decision she came up with. Had this happened to her when she was 15, nothing would have changed. It still would have been her decision, and her decision alone. Obviously adding in that a pregnancy resulted because of a rape would be much more emotionally difficult, I still would not push my agenda onto her. My own personal choice would be to terminate, but that's just me.
JH-479998 said: "MOST abortions in this country are for convenience."
Can you back up that statement with any factual data? I doubt it.
You all have been Rick-Rolled. JH is not only a Troll, he is a male.
Notice how I said "male" and not "man."
Any male that goes on an anonymous post as a female is not a man by my definition.
13
If you think abortion should be safe, legal and rare.
If only that we're true..3,300 a day,1.2 mil a yr in the US, 48% of those have had one Prior,These numbers are from The day after pill to 38 weeks of pregnancy Abortions....these numbers are not rare.50mil a year worldwide.
Is GENOSIDE!
Lets compair these numbers to another Big topic Gun Bans and restrictions of any kind.
Do people use guns any kind of gun to kill 3,300 people every day in the US ??Abortion is a weapon of murder period.A gun can be used as a way to protect oneself,family,food,and fun target practice And its Our right as Americans to bare them and fight a tyrannical Government or forces from outside or within our America.
Mike: According to Planned Parenthood, fully one-third of abortion they perform are for women who are/have been married and who have had children, and do not want another. This flies directly in the face of the notion that abortions are done for unwed, promiscuous teenagers. One third of patients are women who know what it is to have a child, feed and care for children, but for their own reasons choose not to have another. I would not call that convenience, I would call it informed decision making by women who want to do what is best for their families and themselves. I can't provide concrete statistics to back this up, just a nurse friend who works for the organization who relayed that stat, and I thought it was very informative.
Ster: care to back any of that up with some facts or did FAUX Entertainment news tell you that!
I have a few observations and my own opinion about the whole abortion issue.
I also am a Fiscal Conservative and tend to be a Libertarian on other issues.
I am struck by how vile so many of the left leaning amongst us are in their comments and yet these same people make the assertion that the Right are all "Haters", just saying.
I do not support public funds being used for abortions other than those that occurred as a result of rape. As far as Women who cannot afford an abortion, I come back to a very repetitive statement that we need to have more Personal Accountability. If you could not afford the possibility of a pregnancy, why did you have unprotected sex and then why am I responsible for that decision process when you get pregnant.
Unrestricted access to abortions at the taxpayers expense is NOT acceptable. It amazes me that we want to eliminate all RULES and we are being expected to pay for the outcomes of a NO RULES society.
I am NOT in agreement with that. I made many decisions over the course of my life that were outcome driven and I do not see why we cannot teach this to the rest of us.
I am also NOT in agreement with Late Term abortions where the Baby is partially birthed only to have their Living Brain sucked out of their skull. (How is that even allowed in a civilized society)
Ster: "GENOSIDE", indeed. Don't know about the rest of you, but I like to think that literacy should be a non-negotiable requirement for all decision-making positions in our society.
jh: On average, how many time per hour do you use the word "libs"? Look it up - at the risk of destroying your agenda. "favoring gradual reform, especially political reforms that extend democracy." (Encarta). Commies!!! No wonder 134.7% of REAL AMERICANS HATE THE $%#@*&%'s!!!! (this is fun)
Ster2 where did you get your numbers - in 2009 CDC reported 800,000 abortions in the US and in 2012 abortions were at an all time low.
Oh and the spelling is G E N O C I D E
JH-numbers: "They are a good conservative family"
So that makes most Americans BAD LIBERAL NOT A FAMILY in your alleged mind?
Ahh, Fred, you do understand don't you that not all pregnancies are the result of unprotected sex? There are women who have become pregnant even though they were on the pill, became pregnant because of a faulty condom, or the condom broke. These things do happen. As far as you having to pay for it, I don't like paying taxes for alot of things. I don't have kids in grade school, but I still pay taxes to support the schools in my area. Sorry, but we don't get to pick and choose what we pay for. I don't like that part of my insurance premium pays for a man to get erectile dysfunction medication, but then the same men bitch and moan because women get birth control. It goes both ways.
Ster2 - you forgot to include how many babies are killed in socks, tissues, and in shower stalls after men masturbate.
since you felt compelled to incorporate "morning after pill" which prevents fertilization, doesnt destroy a fertilized egg.
Just like throwing sperms in the wastebasket after masterbating prevents those spermies from becoming babies. You shouldnt masterbate if you dont want to kill babies.
Keep it in you, so that when you release the spermies, they'll either die trying or they'll succeed.
Otherwise, you're a hypocrit.
Fred:
You don't want to pay for abortions but your ok with paying for foodstamps/welfare because a new mother can't get a job AND take care of her newborn?
If this is strictly a money issue, abortion is MUCH cheaper for everyone - especially taxpayers. If someone makes a bad decision you would condemn them to living under a bridge in a cardboard box, starving, with their newborn? How charitable of you. If you were being mugged and I had the power to help, I would ignore you and pass on by.
I AM in agreement with your position on partial birth abortions.
"3,300 a day,1.2 mil a yr in the US, 48% of those have had one Prior,These numbers are from The day after pill to 38 weeks of pregnancy Abortions...."
You DO realize that he "day after pill" is birth control, right?? It really is- there is no fertilized egg, no implantation at 24-48 hours out. That is a far cry from abortion and to include those in your numbers throws your credibility down the toilet.
Amy - im as liberal as it comes, but even i laugh at the notion of "keeping abortion, safe, legal and rare".
Safe - Check
Legal - Check
Rare - failing horribly.
what akin should have said is he is totally against all abortions. I think every civilized individual
would agree they are against abortion. how could you not be. many people liberal and conservative
consider it a necessary evil, for the mother to choose. that is the debate.
This planet has a problem with the increasing inability of it to feed the exploding population .We do help to slow down the population growth somewhat,but not enough to DE stabilise the numbers. Wars do not decrease our population in sufficient numbers and are not selective enough. They tend to wipe out the humans from the wrong ends of the age group. The only nation that is attempting to deal with this problem appears to be China. I personally think that the choice of couples to have or not should be encouraged. It beats having armed conflicts to reduce the growth. I do believe that contraception is cheaper and would hope that the participants in the act would pay for their own form,but it would be cheaper for the long suffering tax payer to pay now rather than later.
JH: Not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you. You bash liberals then prove you are one by supporting a womans right to choose.
Fred,
Federal funding doesn't go towards abortions, except in the cases of rape. What Akin and Paul Ryan tried to do was redefine rape so only forceable rape was allowed to have abortions funded. This is where their definition of "legitimate" comes from. So, cases of incest, etc where there may not have been the traditional definition of "force" wouldn't be included. They're trying to take away all funding, as ultimately, no abortions should be allowed, in their eyes. Late term abortions are exceedingly rare, if not illegal in mnay places, and done in cases where a woman may die. Abortion rates have gone down and one of the biggest factors is access to birth control (as well as education). If you're worried about your insurance, just think how much cheaper it is to have contraception covered than a pregnancy. Why should my insurance pay for pregnancies and births? Or if you really want to get extreme, why should it pay for anything that is a medical issue, as most medical situations can be attributed to some sort of personal life choice. Oh, that's right, that's what insurance is for: we all have various medical situations and we have group insurance to help cut the costs.
JH,
I would like to understand your definition of convenience. Is the mother's health physical or mental health a part? Is age a justification 12? 13? 14?. Or on the other end 40, 41, 42? So because I can afford an abortion for my daughters it's alright but the parentless poor kid's I coach should be forced to quit school and raise an unwanted child in poverty. How about severe birth defects for an 18 yr old with no health insurance. You see that is the difference between you and me I am my brother and sisters keeper and can support their choices without making wealth the sole determining factor for receiving services available to my family.
jkh
Bravo, Jim Hayes!
per the article:
It would seem to me that this is more of a question of severely bad parenting by evangelical christians. First, by being evangelical, the daughter is raised in a home where lying is the norm so it is no wonder that, in true evangelical fashion, the daughter would have no moral objection to telling a lie that would ruin someone else's life simply to save her own butt.
Why should we allow some stupid little cult dictate to responsible Americans what we should or should not do? If the evangelical nazis are incapable of raising an honest child in a loving home a home where the child is loved by their parents enough to feel comfortable discussing life changing decision) then they should think twice before spawning.
One only has to look at the evangelical poster-family "The Palins" to know what happens when stupid people raise sluts. I'm tired of these inept, brainwashed idiots making their poor parenting the problem of the rest of the United States.
Please let these women hating Republicans continue to belly-ache about this issue until 2014...
No, their position is that every pregnancy should be carried to term no matter how it originated. That was their position. It's indefensible and illogical. Every woman should be able to take her own decision.
Anti-Choice groups continually spread disinformation with their claims that abortion on demand is legal and that abortions are funded by tax dollars. Neither of these claims are true. It's also untrue that thousands of partial birth abortions are performed each year. Four hundred or fewer late term partial birth abortions are performed each year for anencephalic or otherwise compromised fetuses that would not survive long outside their mother's womb.
" ... are there no democrats who are against abortions? ... "
Why yes. Yes there are.
But here's the part that's hard for "Pro-lifers" to understand. Those very same anti-abortion Democrats are also pro-choice. They believe that you have the right to have one if you so choose. And to not have one if you so choose. It's about choice.
And a lot of people on the Right have trouble understanding, comprehending, that you can hold both beliefs at the same time. That you can be pro-choice and anti-abortion.
Pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion. It just means "for" choice. It's a simple concept really.
*facepalm*
Not a doctor here but I am a scientist who had an adequate education in biology. I've studied enough biology to know that both Akin and this Doctor are buggery idiots who know zero about what they're talking about when it comes to women's sexual biology and conception. It's very complicated, not to mention terrifying to become a mother of a tiny infant for the first time.
Gingery knows little about conception. What a marune.
The pro life action leauge is the site I got my info from and several others claim generally the same even pro choice sites like NAF say there is 1.3 mil a year as a-posed to the 1.2mil I quoted,they also said they way thing are going 35% of childbearing age to 45 will have had one,so rare....not so much. And so what number of babies will be the right number for anyone?I know people who have disabled children that they would never even think to have aborted even knowing there could or could not be something wrong...The Dr.and tests are not always correct.The VP and Prez say if passing some unknown Bill to protect us against Guns if even one person is saved then its worth it,comming from Obama who backs late term partial birth abortions...Can you say Hypocrite ?
The day after pill should shut down the rape argument used all the time by the pro-choice side to advocate abortions,and yes I know they r just the pill in a high dose,my kid is a Pharm. tech,so it should really have cut down on the Oops forgot my pill,the condom broke,I made a bad decision last night ect....If you Really don't want a kid ever,get it permanent they are really good with that now and to be extra careful to not have to murder your unwanted baby and ruin your figure,then use a spermicide ,condom and anything else that is available,There really is a rarity ever ever a good reason why anyone should get pregnant that does not wish to be !
Nobody raped by a stranger or family should have to carry that baby,but we DO NOT have 1.2 or 1.3 mil incest or rapes ending in unwanted pregnancy or physical or mental handicaps to warrant that many RARE Abortions.
And Jessica,your just nasty and know nothing of what you speak.
SDN and holly,I was un aware that spelling was a requirement to post,thank you for your correction :) Im not very proficient at spelling,Im also bad at gymnastics and flying planes...
And Anita down below me here is just making my point on Rape 2out of 28 @ best end in a pregnancy .(but then shes no DR. Im sure)being just about a non issue to keep abortions coming at the speed of GENOCIDE...did I do good SDN and Holly? :) goody trophy time !?!
" ... Im not very proficient at spelling,Im also bad at gymnastics and flying planes... ... "
But this forum does have a spell checker. That's what the little red squiggly red lines under some words means. At which point you can take your misspelled word to Google and it should, in most cases, give you the proper spelling. Not hard really.
"I've delivered lots of babies so I know about these things"? Apparently not. The reason most rapes don't result in pregnancy is that a woman is fertile only a day or two out of her cycle so the chance of pregnancy in any case is only about 2 in 28 at best. Sudden adrenaline released by the body in the course of an assault is not going to interfere with ovulation. Pregancies from rape don't generally involve being "relaxed" or making a false claim out of fear. Sure there are false claims of rape but men really need to stop talking about this for awhile. Really guys, you can't win this one so just give it up.
Ah, but to understand that would mean accepting that fancy sciencey learnin' that Republicans believe is a hoax and a scam.
Anita, please don't lump all us "guys" into the same basket. Even in the case of "conservative guys", I suspect that relatively few agree with the beliefs espoused by Akin and the like. Many of us "guys" are on your side.
And your medical degree is from what school, Anita????
I am bothered by the posts directed at "men" as well. This isn't a men versus women thing. This is a case where there are specific people who have views on abortion and rape which are in no way held by the rest of us.
Anita -- safe to assume you are a doctor or have adequate education to speak authoritatively on this? I am not, and don't really know either way, but I do know that political leanings or social outlook do not influence factual science, so as much as you or Cameron might not want it to be true that stress can have real impacts on conception, unless you really know based on facts, I think I'll just go with what the doctor says, even if in your view he appears not to have delivered lots of babies.
Jogrinder-she didn't say he didn't deliver lots of babies; the question is whether he knows squat about biology. He's a bit behind, it would seem.
And the fact that he had to kiss Rush's a$$ makes his political independance pretty suspect, too.
steelers2013 and Jogrinder, you don't have to be a doctor to know this, just be a woman who has chosen to educate themselves on how their reproductive system works and just so I don't offend any men, I am sure there are men who know this as well. Just doesn't seem like many Republican men seem to know this.
I'm not a doctor, but I am a biologist and I can easily research and understand the biological mechanisms in play here.
A glass of wine doesn't make you ovulate. Relaxing doesn't make you ovulate. And stress doesn't suck an egg back into an ovary. This much is obvious.
I also did a search through the journals. What little research there is on stress and delaying ovulation is from the 1970's and was done in very small study groups (2 - 20). It's just one of those things that is accepted as fact without any proof.
Well stated pragmatic....many posters don't have a clue how men or women's bodies function in a variety of biological ways, sexually, digestion, heart(circulation), etc. A little research will answer many of these questions.
This reminds me of Trent Lott watching a video of Terri Schiavo and making a diagnosis. No exam - just watch a video clip and make a political statement written for you by the party honchos.
Elliot 1.12, your explanation for his using the term "legitimate rape" does not hold water since the only way rape can lead to pregnancy if it is a man raping a woman. You claim Akin was using the term legitimate because in legal sense legitimate is used to include rape where it is male on male, female on female.
So many of you are hung up on the bad choice of words "legitimate" rape. What they meant to say in a better way was "reported and proven rape" as opposed to one that is "reported and proven to have not been a rape". Hopefully that clears up all of the highly emotional comments that claim the author thinks rape is legitimate.
I have no idea if excessive adrenaline reduces the chance of getting pregnant, but even if it does, it in no way proves the theory that a woman getting pregnant, must have had a lower adrenaline level, and therefore wasn't raped. This is ridiculous and not the argument made by the conservatives.
I am pro choice and pro women but when it comes to economy I am not pro democrat and certainly not pro Obama, this man will destroy our country and have everyone singing Kumbaya as we go down in flames.
Everybody's and expert here..gotta love it. "As a biologist I know this and this and this"..."as this person I know this and this and this"...but we know how these things work. Really -- experts? Hah...if you actually knew how these things work then people wouldn't be sterile, you could diagnose how stress affects everything in the body, the precise hormone levels needed and how those hormones affect everthing in your body, you could cure cancer, stop heart disease, prevent premature ejaculation, etc etc etc. They fact is you are spouting off like you know something when even the true experts don't understand it. So quite acting like such an expert!
I'm tired of liberal ignorant statements from women. His statement is factual and college liberals are too stupid and PC to shut up about it.
Brad-2092941 thanks for noting BRAD if you have something to offer offer then be insulted ! moron definitely Men need to SFTU and let each women decide for her self!
I apologize to all the men who understand this topic and are not saying dumb things about it. I know you are out there, its just you are not the ones talking about it like its voodoo or something - so thank you.
Interesting range of opinions however.
trickle read your advice and take it moron! Not one word of your statement is defensible at least in the real world. Yes real doctors do know about this!
Braindick wow what would western civilization do without your wisdom.... Loser!
briankdk meet trickle
LOL Anita-2036926
It really is hard to read the crazy speak the apparently passes for opinion here and as for facts .... forget about it. Good news is the right is imploding!
One thing men have no over abundance of is intellectual pride! As A man I am embarrassed.
In Ireland, a young woman died because abortion was illegal. The doctors knew she would die without the abortion, but they refused to abort her anyway. The irony is, with its mother dead, the fetus died, too. So instead of one life lost, two were lost. Our rigid adherence to ideological dogma is not just foolish, but tragic. My cousin was pregnant with her third child, a very much wanted child, when the doctor told her that the baby was anencephalic and would not survive for more than a day or two outside the womb. Because she was getting older and felt her time to have a third child was limited, and because she did not want to spend months carrying a child that was going to be born dead or die within hours of birth, she chose to abort. A year later, she gave birth to a beautiful healthy baby. She had always been opposed to abortion. Having lived it, she has revised her thinking.
There are those who claim that most abortions are not rape related, or health related, but they would be wrong. There are very few women who want to have an abortion. Many abortions are performed for reasons related to rape, birth defects or the mother's health. Because birth control options are widely available and offer choices, the abortion rate has been declining for a number of years. The one place where teen pregnancy and abortion are still a problem is in the south, where the religious right rejects sex education and birth control information being made available to teens. In those areas where sex education and contraceptives are made available to teens, the rate of teen age pregnancies has gone down dramatically.
This is how you limit abortions, by making it extremely unlikely that someone will have an unwanted pregnancy. Yet the same people who oppose abortion often oppose birth control, and almost all who oppose abortion also oppose sex education, so the teen pregnancy rate in many of the red states is far higher than in the blue states. This means more abortions and more unwanted babies born into poverty.
Extremely well said, underemployed, and very happy that things worked out for your cousin.
As it turned out, Trent Lott was completely wrong about Terry Schaivo. Her autopsy proved that she was brain dead after she passed away. She was in a persistent vegetative state with no meaningful communication with anyone. Lott and her parents were in denial.
For the record, I am female. I dislike that both males and females on here are essentially making this into a war of the sexes. There are men out there who do research on biology/psychology/medical terminologies and medical procedures, and there are women out there who have not made a point of learning about reproductive issues and crimes against women. Women get raped. Men get raped as well, they just don't run the risk of conceiving from the vile act.
Jogrinder - I would like to point out that the congressman graduated from medical school in 1969. He has not practiced since 1998, fifteen years ago. Apparently, he has not kept up on medical studies during the interim, and I wonder how many times he went back to school from 1969 to 1998. I have to agree with Blueunicorn!
Pragmatic - I am happy to see someone with logic and intelligence posting on here. Thank you!
john-2978068 --
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with what the article said -- basically if we understood how everything works in the human body then we could cure everything. The point is we don't. Just because somebody is a biologist or even a doctor doesn't mean they understand how every person's body reacts to an extremely traumatic situation. My point is that everybody who thinks they are an expert is not -- I am not one nor am I pretending to be. Apparently you are so please tell us the facts behind this based on your experiences. Or continue to boost your self-confidence by calling people morons or idiots as you seem to do that with every post.
The GOP will never learn. The key term that is full of disgust is "legit rape". I wonder how they would feel if there daughters were raped "legit"?
Hey Joe, At least most GOPers know how to read. In case you missed it in the story, the idea of a "legit rape" is explained. But of course you skipped over the article entirely just so you could to get your GOP ranting that much quicker. And, YES, I have a daughter.
Legitimate rape.....Think about the language here- either it is rape, or it isn't; placing the word legitimate in front of it is technically redundant and does nothing but create prejudice. There are other crimes where people claim that something happened and for whatever reason we don't believe it is true. Yet we haven't started talking about legitimate car accidents or legitimate thefts.
Yes the term legitimate rape was an unfortunate choice or phrasing, certain to send political ideologues into a frenzy and ignore the point, whether right or wrong, that he was attempting to make. Apparently the man was trying to distinguish between an actual violent rape, and the case of someone falsely claiming rape for whatever reason.
Steelers, what was described in the story as the defining characteristic of "legitimate rape" being it's actually having occurred is not quite what Republican members of the House meant when they added the adjective "forcible" to rape in a piece of legislation that would have limited the legal definition of rape to only those assaults in which non-sexual injuries occur. Rape of a minor, rape using drugs or rape of persons with diminished mental capacity would, under the GOP way of thinking, no longer be rapes. So I am with the majority here; they just need to drop all this rape talk.
Michelle, The sad part is that you believe what you are typing....
This does not excuse the language used, the insensitive political basis for that language, or the thin science justifying it. For the doctor I have a prescription: A simple method to avoid putting your foot in your mouth is to not open it.
If he was trying to distinguish between rape and a false claim of rape, it should have been easy enough to do. Just make the statement the he believes there are women who lie about being raped. Don't try to make up a bunch of crap.
It wasn't all that long ago that a woman was considered a liar if she wasn't beaten half to death in the course of the rape. And then it was still assumed that she could have prevented it somehow by not leaving the house, by not trying to look attractive, by never going anywhere after dark, blah, blah, blah.
Remember people calling rape "a fate worse than death"? It has been assumed for thousands of years that a woman is so dishonored by rape, that she is damaged goods and not fit to live.
So you can say that those of us who are pissed at his and others' idiotic statements are political ideologues, but the simple fact of the matter, we see this as a continuation of the same old crap.
By the way, I'm not specifically picking on you. I'm on lunch and don't have time to go after every single one of you Repub/Con/Tea Party apologists.
brad: You have no idea how glad I am to hear sentiment. As a male, I insist upon having complete control of my body and its functions. How are we to rationalize that women don't have this same right? Rights based on gender? I thought we'd been through that already.
Thanks for you clear and articulate post.
The whole rape issue with the GOP is that they see women as property who are not able to make decisions for themselves.
"Underlying the Republican rape comments and actual Republican political goals are a few fundamental convictions: first, women are vessels for childbearing and care-taking; second, women cannot be trusted; and third, women are the property of men."
The real Republican rape platform | Jill Filipovic | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
Another Republicrap with a "degree" "practicing " on women while making a ton of money, now he will tell you what HE believes. "Legitimate rape" is in the eye of the raped, AND NOT IN THE MIND OF THE RAPIST. Her body "shutting down ovulation" because of a traumatic event is not predictable. I can understand this "Dr" point of view, BECAUSE HE HAS HIS PRECONCEIVED BELIEF'S, HE DOES NOT BELIEVE A WOMAN HAS THE RIGHT TO HER OWN BODY. Ask this same quack if he ever prescribed Viagra or Celais just because a man wants to have sex. What these republicraps believe is that "a man" has the right to fornicate whenever and with whoever he wants (female as well as MALES), he should also be the only authority as to what happens to his sperm. If a woman gets pregnant by him HE has the authority to demand the woman to have his child yet he can disavow that child at any time his little mind desires. I believe that when a man gets a prescription for these penis enlargers he has to submit to a PUBLIC inspection of his genitals to prove he needs this medication. A man should not be able to create children artificially if a woman cannot get rid of the created zygote. I also believe there should be NO ADVERTISING of prescriptions, NONE.
Steelers - http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2012/08/27/paul-ryan-the-term-forcible-rape-was-stock-language/
apparently "forcible rape" is just "stock language" in republican land.
Apparently the thought to just use the word rape, which seems MORE like a stock term...just didnt occur to them. Gee Golly, our apologies!
and then let's take a look at what jogrinder says "parently the man was trying to distinguish between an actual violent rape"
I'll say it again - RAPE IS RAPE, why do you people (and yes im referring to YOU PEOPLE adding words in front of the word rape) keep trying to make rape something other than it is?
So if i get drugged and raped, but it's not "violent" was I not REALLY raped?
What if im mentally handicapped in a assisted living facility and my nurse locks my door and climbs on top of me while im sleeping and because of my diminished mental state, I have NO CLUE whats happening?
guess thats not rape either - it was forcible, as I was asleep. It wasn't violent, and because im mentally handicapped, I didnt say NO.
clearly, not rape in the conservative "definition of what is rape" book.
RAPE is RAPE.
A False claim of rape - guess what, IS NOT RAPE.
what is there to discern?
Oh i get it now, you all think EVERY CLAIM of rape is false, therefore should it magically occur that someone does attack a "respectable lady" walking down the street, drag her into an alley kicking and screaming "help im being raped" and then he rapes her, that is legitimate...
now I get it, sheesh..I just had to think like a knuckle dragger, or guy from India.
I believe that the views on Rape ,non-rape ,maybe rape ,can't be rape, are irrelevant.I consider that it is up to either the female ,with or without the consent of her partner,or in the case of health the delivering person to abort or deliver. If the female wishes to abort when her sexual partner wishes her to conceive then it can be a different ball game. The lawyers and the winner of the legal conflict are,maybe, the winners.
Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt
I will resist the all to easy rejoinder ... good to see you Dangerfield, it has been awhile. :-) ... apparently resistance is futile.
Always good to see your ever-changing avatar and steadfast wit...
Busy time in the RW for dangerfield, but often hear the siren song of the collective echoing through the canyons of my mind...;-)
Ah the siren ... that Common Denominatrix!
Yuck!! why do we have to continually hear from these GOP fools????????
Because there are way too many idiots voting for them.
The bad news is that these right wing Republicans are ignorant evil people. The good news is that they are in a very deep hole, and they just keep on digging. So far, it's lost them several Senate seats and a Presidential election that they could have easily won. So I LOVE the fact that these people are the face of the GOP. It assures continued Democratic success.
I have an idea. I'll compile a 'binder full of men'. Not just any men....but a comprehensive list of idiotic misogynistic Republicans who continue to make these corrosive comments with the aim of controlling women. The first name gets to pay child support for the next infant born of rape until the age of 18.
I bet they'd shut up.
P.S. My body/my choice.
sanjuan: This is a damn fine idea. Some of us men are getting progressively more embarrassed by many of those of of our gender - these politicians and physicians included of course. It's going to be a damn long list.
Orcas, too. What an area.
Wow, conservatives just don't understand the nature of science and biology, even the ones that practice medicine.
Who really thinks that couples having sex, "while relaxed" are keeping adrenaline out of their system?
So oppie, please enlighten us on the precise nature of science and biology. I'm sure we'd all love to hear from a real expert...
Why would a Jo-grinder have any interest in this subject?
Jogrinder...
Since you are responding to a blog, I can make the educated assumption that you have access to the internet. Please go to your choice of internet search engines and type in "does the body release adrenaline during sexual intercourse?" The bevy of entries returned will enlighten you.
jog: How would you recognize a "real expert"?
OMG! and this guy calls himself a doctor. Let's castrate him so he will never populate anymore brainless s.o.b's.
Ah, another Canuk ... eventually the entire continent will be ours.
Dr. Mengele was a doctor, too.
Evil is evil, regardless of education. Gingrey and Mengele prove this point.
Is it a requirement to be a raging moron before joining the GOP or do they offer on the job training?
I am thinking job training but great potential to be such is a requirement.
Both.
I can just imagine Phil Gingrey camping out at Michael O'Brien's house until Mr O'Brien agreed to interview him.
Is there something in the air or water that is causing all of these Tea Party dumb nuts or is it genetics?
The GOP needs stupid people, or they would not have any followers.
That's why they slam all institutes of higher education as "liberal" and cut basic education funding across the board for all ages and education levels.
The smarter and more educated a person is, the less likely they are to become republicans.
I am not familiar with this guy and do not know his politics. I cannot believe that we would have some man on our payroll who is dumb enough to express an opinion on the subject of rape except that it needs to be prosecuted. Any time I think politicians from one party can't be any dumber they are topped by one in another party. I think that Romney spelled out why republicans lost. He was never going to get the 47% and another 3 or 4% were sympathetic. Doesn't look good for republicans any time in the near future. Democrats do the same thing.
At what point are Republican male politicians going to stop trying to justifiy rape. The only words that should be attached to rape are "illegal, traumatic, and horrible. This constant justification of rape, because maybe 2 out of 1 million victims didn't tell the truth needs to stop. Women do not have consential sex and then deciede to accuse a man of rape because they are bored, or scared. Women are no longer shunned by society for having sex, an accusation of rape requires a physical exam, filing a report with the police and if the guy is caught and prosecuted a public trial. And people think a girl or woman is going to do this just because?, or because they are pregnant and scared to tell Mommy and Daddy, really. Its time some of you rape doesn't happen believers should talk to rape victims and find out just how horrible this crime is, and just how badly the victim gets treated because of illigetimate beliefs.
Women do not have consential sex and then deciede to accuse a man of rape because they are bored, or scared.
I agree with all your points, but false accusations do happen. I doubt they are for those reasons, but they do happen and it serves no one to say it never does. But a bigger question, what do these comments made by the republicans have to do with false accusations? I feel like you kind of just dragged that one in.
You are both wrong. Nowhere is anyone trying to justify rape. The mere explanation of how a false accusation could occur does not imply by any stretch of the imagination a justification of a true rape. How dare you completely dismiss "how badly the victim gets treated because of" false accusations. There are many stories of people in jail because of a false accuation. The recently release ex-high school football player is merely one example.
dkcarl, hard to imagine a more ignorant set of statements. I know lots of families who consider sex to be sacred and not to be shared with just anyone, or anyone outside of the commitment of marriage. And yet of course it is not unheard of for a girl in some such families to become pregnant, and it is a real source of fear and shame. I'm guessing you think that is ridiculous, but not everyone thinks that way. In the families I know, parents and their daughters who get into this situation normally work it out with love and commitment, but it's tough. There are illegitimate claims of rape out there for various reasons, and you can stick your head in the sand and cry out that its not true, but your plain out wrong. Rape is a terrible thing, and so is covering it up. But saying that people don't sometimes lie about it doesn't make it any better.
steelers and jogrinder,
The issue many have with it is utilizing the fact of whether a woman gets pregnant or not as a means of testing whether the accusation is false or true. There is zero basis for this comparison. The doctor is saying there is some merit to it. The numbers don't back him up. The science doesn't back him up. Full stop.
Again, Pragmatic, reading more into the story than what isreally there. It is NOT saying a pregnancy occured - therefore there was a rape; or oppositely, that since no one got pregnant - there couldn't have been a rape. NOWHERE does it say anything like that. What it DOES say is that if a pregnancy occurs and the individual may not want to admit to a parent, husband, or whomever, that there was consensual sex, an accusation of rape may be generated to divert the issue of any guilt on the part of that individual. I saw this plenty in the Navy when Sailors returning for a deployment after some consensual sex and had to tell a spouse they had gotten pregnant - the only way to not incriminate themselves was to claim rape. In other words - there was NO rape. That is what the article tries to differentiate from "legitimate" rape. Please re-read the article (benefit of the doubt that you actually read it the first time) and try to understand it this time before posting again.
I always considered myself an independent voter. But after listening to these moron republicans over and over i will never vote for one again.
I don't think the problem is the Republican party, per se, but a typical attitude by people with conservative social beliefs. They are often are misogynist (if they are male) and thus allow for the institutionalization of violence against women. Women are just possessions, like your dog, so who cares if they are abused.
Men maintain their status on the top of the social hierarchy by putting women down. Rape is a good way to do that as it not only dehumanizes them so they don't fight for their rights, but often saddles them with babies they can't afford making it difficult for them to show economic power as well.
Marie, I am conservative by nature, though certainly not politically a Republican ideologue by any stretch (I think many members of both major parties will say or do most anything to maintain power). My point is that I know lots and lots of conservative men personally and I say that conservative men honor women and strive to maintain a high commitment and respect to their wives, daughters, and other women they know. Conservative or liberal mind sets have little to do with how a man views women, although on the fringes of both mind sets I'm sure a case could be made for extreme views towards women. You made what you think is a case for conservative men being misogynist, but liberal men might just as well act hatefully toward women who might see women as so independent so as not to need their support, "she is not my responsibility, so who cares"? I'll take my pleasure, she'll take hers, and when I find someone else I'd rather take my pleasure with, I'll just leave for the new one. Happens all the time because many men view women as not needing them, or their commitment, so why practice good character. Goes both ways Marie...
bob: Same here. Although I still vote for the candidate, rather than the party, gender or home state. Needless to say, most of my votes end up in the "D" column - for reasons threads such as this make all too obvious. Would you, in any stretch of the imagination, want to be associated with Alex Jones? Not so long ago, they would throw nets over such hysterics, and lock them away forever. Not that they should, but a good pair or two of socks would be a relief.
I think it is a serious error to characterize these as "conservative" social views. What happened to small government? What happened to not letting government dictate how we live our lives? Yet these so-called conservatives are willing to have government intrude into some of the most intimate family decisions. This isn't conservatism by any matter of means. It is fascism. Let us call it by its correct name.
OMG the left does not know when to quote themselves, and MSNBC just makes it worse
If msnbc reported just half the stupid things that Nancy Pelosi or Barney Frank say along with some of the republicans, we would have a level "field day". If you are intelligent enough to read between the lines, this just goes to show you how stupid all of congress is and why we need a third party badly.
I am an independent voter
Feisty>>>OMG!
These right wing idiots just don't know when to shut the hell up!
(Whatever the internet acronym for shaking my head in disbelief is)
Here ya go: :)
......................................__................................................
.............................,-~*`¯lllllll`*~,..........................................
.......................,-~*`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll¯`*-,....................................
..................,-~*llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll*-,..................................
...............,-*llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\.......................... .......
.............;*`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~*~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................................
..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,......................... ..
...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-*...........`~-~-,...(.(¯`*,`,..........................
................\llllllllllll,-~*.....................)_-\..*`*;..)..........................
.................\,-*`¯,*`)............,-~*`~................/.....................
..................|/.../.../~,......-~*,-~*`;................/.\..................
................./.../.../.../..,-,..*~,.`*~*................*...\.................
................|.../.../.../.*`...\...........................)....)¯`~,..................
................|./.../..../.......)......,.)`*~-,............/....|..)...`~-,.............
..............././.../...,*`-,.....`-,...*`....,---......\..../...../..|.........¯```*~-,,,,
...............(..........)`*~-,....`*`.,-~*.,-*......|.../..../.../............\........
................*-,.......`*-,...`~,..``.,,,-*..........|.,*...,*...|..............\........
...................*,.........`-,...)-,..............,-*`...,-*....(`-,............\.......
......................f`-,.........`-,/...*-,___,,-~*....,-*......|...`-,..........\........
Sorry, this conservative can't think of anytime "legitimate" and "rape" should be used together.
It's not what you say that matters, it's how you say it. You can tell someone you're going to kill them in such a way they never feel threatened, or tell them you love them and do it in such a way that they think you're lying. 10 years of customer service have taught me the finer points on this subject.
Was Akin correct? Technically, yes, stress does complicate the pregnancy process and semi-protect a woman. Was it a good idea to say what he said in the way he said it? No. He failed to give a good enough explanation of what he meant and fell on his face because of it.
It wouldn't have mattered how he said it to the lib-media. They baited him and ran with it. All part of the agenda. Truth has no place in lib-world. Only agenda.
catlover,
The problem with the "agenda" is that people actually have to say something for it to work. Do not blame the media for what somebody said. Nobody put a gun to his head and made him say something asinine. He did that of his own free will. To redirect blame in such a way is to live in denial of reality.
No Prag, If certain bait questions are asked of one side and not the other, or if they are asked of both sides but only the response of one side is reported, it is an agenda foisted upon us by a dishonest media. How do you think the lib-media would have reported a non-response if that's what had been given? They would have screamed that the Republicans refuse to answer such important questions. Republicans can't win with today's ultra liberal media. It isn't too surpising, though. The media has always had an agenda - right, left or nowhere. The problem is that people have been brainwashed (by the media, of course) into believing that the media is true and honest. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's time the sheep woke up and understood that.
cat: Hook, line and sinker. And please with the "lib" thing....instant zero credibility. How many times per day do you hear "you cons"? Ever wonder why?
You don't have to ask bait questions to get these rape comments from republicons. This is imbedded in their belief system.
"Underlying the Republican rape comments and actual Republican political goals are a few fundamental convictions: first, women are vessels for childbearing and care-taking; second, women cannot be trusted; and third, women are the property of men."
Republicons are domestic terrorists on the same level as the Taliban.
The real Republican rape platform | Jill Filipovic | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
cat: 'bait questions'? Are those the ones posed in a way to shame a person into expressing what they really think? We should, or should not, know what these people think?
CAT,
Rep. Phil Gingrey, R-Ga., a former obstetrician-gynecologist, said at a town hall meeting that Akin was “partly right”
Sure the paper covered what he said, but he said it to his constituents. His ego was the only thing baiting him...
Gabriel, You are wrong. The only time stress is likely to interrupt the pregnancy process is if the woman is stressed for a long period before the rape. Stress during rape will not inhibit pregnancy, not at all. That stress is coming too late to do any good.
There are two agendas here. The first one is the suggestion that a charge of rape is often false. That is seriously misogynistic. The second one is the bottom line assertion that if you were pregnant, then there was no rape. How dare anyone, regardless of his politics, dare to suggest that? A woman who has been raped and impregnated is now being raped all over again by the implication that she is a liar.
This isn't science, this is bigotry. This is slander. This is disgusting. I wouldn't let either one of those men near me or my daughters. Because the next logical step in this little diatribe is the one that justifies rape by saying she was "asking for it."
Any woman who is not enraged by these statements has serious self-esteem issues. Why would any woman let a man define whether or not she has been raped? Do you think we can't tell? Do you think we're too dumb to know whether or not our rape was "legitimate"? It is so condescending, so insulting, so neanderthal. Just grab her by the hair and pull her into the cave. She really likes it.
I wish Michael O'Brien would do the journalistically responsible thing and at least link to the disproof of these people's claims. We have legislators who are incredibly scientifically ignorant, and a media that doesn't bother with proof, just offers endless "he said, she said" garbage. Mr. O'Brien, you are complicit in the promulgation of ignorance. A pox on you and them.
You can SERIOUSLY think that a link to disprove idiocy is necessary for this article, do you? Really? you are beyond normally ignoranct yourself, then.
lmao you want links to refute their claims whafrog? go find a woman who got pregnant by rape..happens all the time. And guess what..the fathers/rapists still have parental rights in 31 states! (fact..disprove that)
Yet again, another boozer conservative shows how mentally defective alcohol can render the brain. Ladies of America...wake up! Thanks to the GOP conservatives there was no vote on the Violence Against Women Act...so now any man who is a batterer can not only rape you because you won't get pregnant but he can beat hell out of you and the Good Ole Bois Network will protect "HIS" rights.
Ladies...Do you not see what the GOP male bully party is really up to? They want to get rid of Roe vs. Wade, Social Security, Equal Pay for Equal Work, Medicare and Medicaid. Texas has already started Anti-Woman Ball rolling by denying Planned Parenthood which provides numerous services to women any funding.
In other words, ladies....the GOP is leading the battle to reduce women to chattel. Take away the payroll deductions we work hard for, our limited options for healthcare, Planned Parenthood services and the ability to be fully protected against rape and violent men...and there you have it....The Second Coming of the Ahole Neanderthals of the GOP.
Methinks it's time for this Year of the Women to start mopping up the floors with bully male GOP conservatives before we all become as dumb as Daisy Mae and just as useless.
And more stupid bitches that think they are smarter than a Dr.
What the article was about, Legitimate rape or Non Legitimate rape. I know you women would never LIE to make it a NON Legitimate rape. So when they actually do LIE then what kind of rape is it called then. A consentual RAPE, you women are NOT really that STUPID are you.
There is such as thing as legitimate rape, Steve?
Define that please?
Watch your mouth. Some of us stupid bitches ARE doctors.
Your derogatory and ignorant rant makes it clear that you are nothing more than a misogynist (sorry dummy, "woman-hater").
You know what they call doctors that finished last in their class in med school? "Doctor."
The issue isn't about a woman lying about whether or not a rape occurred; it's about a faction of people trying to take away a woman's right to choose whether or not to terminate a pregnancy.
I will thank religious wing-nuts to keep their bibles out of my uterus.
steve-1962 , nice to call women "stupid bitches" especially when you can do it anonymously.
No need to hate on women. Be nice, maybe you'll get some someday.
Or, maybe your Dr. Gingrey will give you an anal..
I find the use of the word "legitimate" and rape in the same sentence as absolutely ludricrous regardless whether it is used in a legal sense. At the age of 46 I was attacked by a stranger while doing my job on company property and one of my male friends put it like it is: "It takes a special kind of nut job to be able to get excited by forcing a woman into a sexual act!" End quote! Don't tell me what is legitimate and what is not and stop trying to force your idiotic notions on those of us who know right from wrong!
"Stupid bitches"? Sure glad my mind didn't end up wherever yours has.
Let me get the GOP mentality down. A gun is not the reasons people die it it the criminal and the criminal is not the reason for rape. The GOP is out in 2014
If someone lies about being raped, it isn't called a non-legitimate rape or any other rape for that matter. It's called a LIE. The words legitimate and rape should never be used in conjunction with one another.
Some of Colbert's best advice to GOP candidates -- don't talk about rape.
No matter what the GOP Doctor or failed GOP Senate Candidate Akin claims:
The bottom line is;
The GOP scientifically and ideologically F@#*ked up..............because 52% of American voters are women. As a matter of fact, they're still angry about it to this day..........
I am not aware of a married man who would dare try to explain anything his wife's bodily functions, wants, etc.
Even standing up and saying "I'm a obstetrician-gynecologist", I know how a womans, body works...listen to me instead. I just can't understand any man in 2013 even thinking about having such a conversation much less vocalizing these thoughts-no matter how strongly the opinion.
Regardless of your politics, we do need at least two strong parties that offer options.
It bothers me that Republicans seem to always fall into this kind of "cow pie".
On purpose.
Regularly
In fairness, the only way to really learn about these things is to dissect people. Even if you are a woman, you would have no idea a priori how the menstrual cycle is going to work in zero gravity just by virtue of having a uterus. How bodies work should be a collection of facts that anyone is able to scientifically validate, so the race or sex of the individual making the comments should be irrelevant.
Pablo, Not because they do NOT know what they are talking about. But because I will NOT try to say anything about my wife as SOME WOMEN do NOT know how to take a joke or to talk about there bodies with an OPEN mind. SOME(MOST) are just BITCHES.
Or, in your case Steve, a clueless jerk. (Just kidding!)
You can take a joke, right?
When Steve's parents brought him home from the hospital it proved that they know how to take a joke.
Pity.
Someone voted this idiot into office? OMG