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Subscribe to RSSAfter initially saying it had declined an invitation to Thursday’s White House meetings on gun violence, Wal-Mart now says it will attend. But senior officials from the nation’s largest gun retailer will not be there.
“Knowing our senior leaders could not be in Washington this week, we spoke in advance with the Vice President's office to share our perspective,” Wal-Mart spokesman David Tovar said in a statement. “We underestimated the expectation to attend the meeting on Thursday in person, so we are sending an appropriate representative to participate.”
Wal-Mart’s initial announcement this morning that it would not attend the Vice President Biden-led sessions sparked a round of headlines noting that Wal-Mart would “skip” the talks.
Recommended: First Thoughts: Biden's gun violence listening sessions begin
Earlier, Tovar said Wal-Mart has had “a number of phone calls and meetings” with Biden’s office at the staff level in recent weeks, and “they know we’ve been very engaged on this topic and we’re committed to participating in the dialogue.”
He added that the representatives who have been corresponding with White House officials have other meetings this week and are simply unable to attend this particular meeting.
But the tune changed just an hour and a half later with the following more lengthy written statement:
"Walmart, like the rest of the country, has been engaged in a national dialogue about the responsible sale and regulation of firearms. We have had ongoing conversations with the Administration, Congress, Mayor Bloomberg's office, sportsmen groups, suppliers and others to listen and share our thoughts and experiences.
"Over the years we have been very purposeful about striking the right balance between serving hunters and sportsmen and ensuring that we sell firearms responsibly. In fact, we became a charter member of Mayor Bloomberg's coalition against illegal guns and adopted the 10-point code established by the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership that goes beyond what the law requires.
"Knowing our senior leaders could not be in Washington this week, we spoke in advance with the Vice President's office to share our perspective. We underestimated the expectation to attend the meeting on Thursday in person, so we are sending an appropriate representative to participate. We take this issue very seriously and are committed staying engaged in this discussion as the Administration and Congress work toward a consensus on the right path forward."
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It's time Wal Mart - like all major retailers step up and admit their complicity in the continued mass shootings. They need to get assault weapons off the shelves - and hold to tighter gun controls to stop from being part of the problem. I'm guessing Wal Mart employees are not qualified to assess the sanity of anyone - much less sell guns to them.
Why does any retailer like Wal Mart even have guns???? They should be sold in gun shops only - not next to the lawn mowers, tent, etc!
Wal-Mart and Wendy's are busy reducing workers' hours to 28 - so that they do not qualify for health care coverage.
It doesn't get any sleazier than that, for companies that are raking in $millions around the Globe.
"If you can't afford to offer the basic essentials to your workers like a living wage and healthcare – then you don't deserve to be in business in the first place." (Hartmann, former business-owner)
I will be disappointed if Wal-mart isn't in it.
HERE IS SOME ACTUAL DATA, NOT JUST EMOTIONAL OUTCRY.
According to FBI.gov statistics not those from a lobbying group who advocate policy.
Since 1992 Violent crime is down 50% the Murder rate is down 54%.
Why isn’t the Media reporting the considerable improvement in violent crime?
In 2011 of all the homicides committed by firearms, only 3.5% were committed with rifles and the AR15 is only a subset of the rifle group. Assault weapon ban should really help out here? LOL
In England where guns are banned:
Violent crime ratio per 100,000 = 1,361. This is 3 and half times that of the US.
This is simply about the government gaining more control over the populace. Not one of the Obama initiatives will significantly improve our safety.
To say that Wal-Mart has to "admit their complicity" in the "continued" mass shootings is one of the most ASININE statements I have ever seen on this blog ! Considering the source, such a "loose-cannon" statement should be expected.
Wal-mart sells products ! They are not responsible for how those products are consumed/used. Only a liberal would make such a ridiculous statement.
...and as you so eloquently stated in your post Dav1bg, you seem to give 2 scoops about the "safety" of the Country as you provided 0 perspective on what to actually do to improve this safety (which by the way, you are implying in some form or fashion is at risk concerning guns) and a sliced and diced argument of faux concern for the Citizens of the UK as you whistle past the graveyard of 20 6 year olds.
Wal-mart is a bully to its employees and to the communities they take over. I have not shopped at Wal-Mart in years, and I never will. My hard earn money supports local mom-and-pop shops and retailers that give a f*ck about their communities.
Why does any retailer like Wal Mart even have guns???? They should be sold in gun shops only
_______________________________________
Seeking Stupidity: Because guns are a legal product to sell and Walmart is in the business of selling legal products.
Do you buy your favorite French white whine in a grocery store?? Or do you think your whine should only be sold in liquor stores?? And do you buy your gas at a convenience store?? Or do you think gas should only be sold by gas stations. And do you get your cash from the ATM in the mall?? Or do you think cash should only be available at banks??
Now, does the premise for your statement look as stupid to you as it does to everyone else??
jim-1455434
To say that Wal-Mart has to "admit their complicity" in the "continued" mass shootings is one of the most ASININE statements I have ever seen on this blog ! Considering the source, such a "loose-cannon" statement should be expected.
Wal-mart sells products ! They are not responsible for how those products are consumed/used. Only a liberal would make such a ridiculous statement.
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Everything you stated was more than palatable, until you say crap like "liberal"...and next week bemoan political divisiveness in the Country.
If your perspective is that the post shows how extreme a point can become, I hope you realize that the empty seat you are looking at in the front row is yours. Hi Pot, I'm Kettle.
Backhouse
Wal-Mart takes the #1 spot: while Walton donates $317+ million to build a museum, her company has been caught hiring illegal immigrants, and working people off the clock to save on labor costs.
It's a one despicable company.
Dav1bg
you copy and paste your "statistics" but provide no source...didn't they teach in school to back up your data?
"seeking sanity" says I'm guessing Wal Mart employees are not qualified to assess the sanity of anyone - much less sell guns to them.
Wait a minute--are you trying to imply that guns should only be sold by folks "qualified to assess the sanity" of the buyer? That in order to have a licence to sell a gun, you must first get an advanced degree in psychology or psychotherapy?
And that's what you call a sane policy?
They sell soda pop and potato chips too, should they step up and admit their complicity in the obesity epidemic in America? On a quick search it looks like obesity related deaths are about ten times higher than gun related deaths.
The only reason they showed up is that they don't want to lose sales. Do you think the worlds largest retail giant wants to look like the only things they care about is gun sales. Thats why they showed up. If they didn't show they would look like they don't care. Its all about making them look like they care. Look at the black eye that would have given them. They look bad enough the way they treat their employees.
@Allen-Omaha #1.8, Everything you said was palatable until you tried to predict what I will say next week. Sorry buckaroo, you lost all credibility with that ridiculous assumption.
PS: "Carnak the Magnificent" failed to exist when Johnny Carson passed away quite some years ago ! You are NOT a mind reader, so pretending you are makes you look foolish !!
jim-1455434
@Allen-Omaha #1.8, Everything you said was palatable until you tried to predict what I will say next week. Sorry buckaroo, you lost all credibility with that ridiculous assumption.
PS: "Carnak the Magnificent" failed to exist when Johnny Carson passed away quite some years ago ! You are NOT a mind reader, so pretending you are makes you look foolish !!
=============
And the fact that this is what you reply with pretty much solidifies the silliness you applied to the original poster. Apology is not accepted and you and I are not bukaroo.
I call bull@!$%# on Walmart! The only reason they reversed course, imo, is the public outcry. They are supposedly big on being part of America's family style values, which is also nothing but bull@!$%#. They have cheap labor and sell cheap products.
Walmart has one of the most stringent set of qualifications in the industry governing the purchase of lethal weapons and/or ammunition... You have to demonstrate that you are obese, have a good 3 inches of b-crack exposed at all times, not shower or bathe with any sort of regularity, and be willing to go up-side your kids head (at least open-handed) right in front of them, and a valid picture I.D..
Filthy sweat-pants and thongs in the winter time can boost your chances, but are not technically required. Employee discounts are not offered, because they don't pay anyone enough to be able to approach the department anyway.
I tried all of the above but was rejected because i'd inadvertently combed my hair the prior day. I'll try again next Tuesday.
@Allen-Omaha, You must be suffering from "Delusions of Adequacy" if you imagined anything about my post was to be construed as an apology ! Surely you can do better than that !!
The original post is asinine because it blames a company for selling a product and then magically tries to imply "complicity". You are falling into that same category because you are desperately trying to find a way to support her idiotic comment.
Say what you will about WalMart, and I certainly have a distaste for some of what they do and how they do it, but to blame them for gun violence or accuse them of complacency is ridiculous. Guns are a product that can and should be legally sold by registered sellers. If a department store such as WalMart has a camping and hunting department why not include guns? All out banning of guns will make things worse. Uncontrolled ownership, sale and possession of firearms alone is not the answer either. A balanced approach allowing the sale and possession of firearms by responsible individuals for purposes of sport, hunting or self protection shouldn't be questioned. However, no one needs an assault weapon for any of these purposes. If someone doesn't sufficciently lock up their weapons and those weapons are used in a crime the owner should have some amount of complicitsy in the commiting of that crime. Heavy fines and imprisonment of you if your gun is used in a crime because of your neglegence in making it so easy to obtain. Background and santity checks should be required of all gun owners. Efforts by law enforcement, military and gun owner associations should work to keep educate people on the safe handling, storage and use of firearms should be mandatory, illegal trafficing and the sale of weapons without those checks are essential to making it happen.
Unfortunately if groups like NRA don't compromise they will be ordered by the government and they will lose their right to bear arms. The Constitution is amendable. We simply cannot continue to allow children to be slaughtered.
No Kidding Chick!
I bought my hubby a page-a-day "People of Wal-Mart" calendar and it is NOT for the faint of heart!
We are only on page 9 and I have almost barfed twice! LOL
Can't wait to see what the rest of the year brings! ☺
uh Oh the Femme Portfolio is badmouthing wallyworld. I suspect ye olde Femme Portfolio is just a tad upset the judge didnt overturn his child porn conviction and cant get a gun even at wally world.
Chick Binder, your comment just goes to show how little you know and how much of a bigot you really are. So according to you, only dirty fat and sloppy hillbillies shop at your local Walmart? That's actually a sign of what kind of area you live in. I live within reasonable driving distance to 4 of their stores. 2 of them I will not step foot in, because the areas are crime ridden. One other store is a little to far, and the state sales tax is too high. The forth store is filled with average working Americans for the most part. Pf all races. I've tried to find Walmartians of my own there to post online, and haven't found one yet. Another thing that you must be very ignorant about, Walmart has stricter policies than the average gun store. They have specifically trained associates that are responsible for seeing that the guns are sold, all legal forms and document are filled out properly, and filed as required. They have their own compliance auditors.You wouldn't really know any of this though because you are just a troll liberal trying to distract from the truth. Another statement that makes it obvious you have never spoken to one of their employees, the fact employees do get a discount. They are given a discount card when they become employed there. I suppose when you are the buttcrack guy doing your k-w jelly shopping at 2am, none of them have wanted to befreind you, and who can blame them. But it does happen. I know because I have used a friends card before for a very nice discount on a large order of ammunition. The employee I mention also makes $40,000+ a year and has very adequate health insurance. We've become friends just through our encounters in the sporting goods department. You live it up in your little gun grabber world. Once they've taken our guns, this country will end for the worse. Do you really think the real criminals are going to line up to turn in their guns? Our government can't round up 13 million illegals, but you think they'll find 300 million guns? Mark my words Chickie, you will be sorry you followed the rest of the sheep to the gallows.
All they need to do is reverse the law that says people can't sue the gun companies. Once the floodgates open, these guys will be out of business and our problem will be solved.
The week that the families in Newtown were burying their dead children and loved ones, Wal-Mart set up a CENTER display selling BB guns in a gift pack of two designed like assault weapons, one similar to the assault weapon that killed those children and their teachers, and the other like a handgun.
Talk about insensitive. I found it disgusting.
The worst part was that all but three of them had been sold.
I used to shop at Wal-Mart a lot, but have been taking my business elsewhere as much as possible now. Not just because of this gun business, but also because they have cut back on checkers and the wait lines are too long now.
Well, Wal-mart has to be in it.
How can we live without Wal-mart?
Pigotry - amazingly, I've lived without it for years. Can't recall the last time I stepped into one of their stores! Everything's made in China - not like when it was started!
I never shop at Wal-Mart. It is bad enough that as a taxpayer I help them to pay such low wages by so many of their employees being on food stamps.
Pigotry:
Easy!
Steeler Fan: This Eagle fan is with you 100%.
At the insistence of a friend of mine, I started grocery shopping at Walmart when I was laid off a few years ago. To my surprise, my typical bill went from ~$220 at the grocery store I had been shopping at, to ~$150 per trip. The biggest saves were on paper products, sandwich/trash bags, detergents, and dog food, but I noticed saves across the board. The selection of some items wasn't quite as good, and neither was the quality of the beef (which I continued to get from the grocery). But 33% off my grocery bill was too significant to ignore, and I've continued to shop there. You folks can demonize Walmart (and every other business) all you want, but the savings from volume buying and holding costs down are undeniable.
fedup:
I am glad you could save a little off the backs of the working poor. Good job! I am sure a similar argument was made to keep slavwery around as well.
If you are working at Walmart for minimum wage, no benefits and low hours it is because that is how marketable your skills are. Why should you be paid one penny more than what they are worth? Walmart is a business not a charity and you have many, many other choices of employers who are in the market for minimum wage skills. Now-Tear me a new one! Lets hear it!
Someone bought me a blender from walmart; it lasted 6 minutes and started leaking. Cheap plastic bearings. Haven't shopped there for a year. Food is much tastier at the other stores for some reason, might just be my imagination.
Can't help but think that your blatantly Liberal attitude has colored both your experience with the faulty blender, and with your inexplicable taste preferences. First Walmart didn't manufacture the blender, and probably would have replaced it for you no questions asked. It would actually make sense for you to boycott the company that made the blender... for shoddy workmanship and parts... but boycotting Walmart... mmm, not so much. And as for your taste discrepancies... they probably wouldn't hold up to a double blind (ie non biased) test.
So you saved what you say was 33% on your food Great! Now how much in taxes do you pay for the medicaid they show their employees how to sign up for along with food stamps? Just love people that try to say something by buying cheap not tomention the jobs shipped overseas that can be directly linked to WalMart.
That is not how Sam started it, but his youngin are a greedy lot!!!
The "American Public" yes, you guys, you are the ones that DEMANDED lower prices on ALL THE CRAP you buy. Don't tell me you went to your mom and pop store in your little burg and bought your kitchen aid mixer for $599.00 when you could drive downtown and buy it at Macys, K-Mart, Target, Kohls, Walmart etc. for $299.00. You are ALL a bunch of sniveling hypocrites. Sam Walton only sold AMERICAN products UNTIL there were no American products to sell.
jim overlin Have you ever bought anything at wal-mart? I commend you if you have not. I'm sorry to say that your wrong but old Sam bought and sold crap that was made in other countries. The only difference was old Sam offered more American products than they do now. Old Sam was a sharp man one has to give him that. I find it sad that our country has only one weekend a year for shopping with small businesses. We should be shopping at all small businesses every day!!!
It wasn't Walmart that killed off American manufacturing. It was global competition, high domestic taxes, high domestic wages, high domestic regulation, Chinese monetary manipulation, and a host of other causes. They're just trying to work in that global economy, and piss poor domestic business environment that they're in. As for guns... the gungrabbers just want to ban them all... and the rest is practiced hysterics... the further they can stay from logic, they better they like it.
Unfortunately fire arms are one of the few american made products that Wal-mart still sells. The tin foil hat crowd that fears that their rights are being taken away are forming lines to buy more guns.
Afraid to say it but the day before the VP recommendations come out people will be sleeping outside Wmart's doors in Tents. If you think black friday lines were bad, just wait till the uninformed and hysterical think Obama is "coming for their guns".
Jim, i don't remember getting lower priced items by demanding them. Even if I'd asked the salesperson i doubt the price would have gone down. Who is this "American Public" you disparage for being the root cause of what you don't even understand?
Reduced prices were DELIVERED to the American public via the market force called BUYING POWER. The baseball mitt that costs $27.00 at the Mom & Pop can be had for $16.00 at the Walmart because the manufacturer contracted with Walmart to produce X amount of rail-cars full of each individual design. The manufacturer sees $$ in cost efficiencies in production, scheduling, stability, competetiveness, and "guaranteed" business(a misnomer because the wally will back-charge you and dump you at a moments notice). Often, to meet these wild-eyed dreams of retail glory, the manufacturer will "re-locate" their production (all or part).
So, to say that Consumer demand set the stage for business going overseas is a wild stretch of the imagination at best. The mechanism is not supply and demand. The mechanism is the use of buying power to crush the competition. The result is a lower priced glove with a walmart tag stitched right into the heel at time of manufacture.
Low wages, no health benefits, manipulated schedules to guarantee both, smaller manufacturers crushed, Mom and Pops unable to survive, businesses moved off-shore to achieve the new "price point" Walmart demands in return for the favor, and an ever-increasing amount of cheaply made goods imported for your viewing pleasure.
Sure, blame the Customers.
jim overlin - Sam Walton is spinning in his grave. I went to Wal Mart when they sold American goods. Now I don't and I do pay more - but the products last. And, American made products are coming back - GE is buiding 4 manufacturing centers which will be operational in 2014. The more people demand American made - they more we will get American made!
How many centers is GE building in other countries ? Furthermore, since you choose to hold up GE as a "shining example", how much did they pay in taxes last year ? Are they paying their "fair share" ??
The last thing I heard was GE paid no taxes .... but then again, they are "tight" with Obama and Immelt is very close in his circle.
when you start 'restricting' (liberal term for taking away) rights, you essentially are taking them away... Harris and Klebold killed 13 without assault weapons. cho used a P22(James Bond) and Glock 19. maybe we should ban all BUT muzzleloaders
You know, that ain't a bad idea! It would really test the skills of the shooter. Makes it more challenging. Who could argue with that? "The harder the course, the more rewarding the triumph". Where do I sign up?
Of course Walmart is attending. They have a vested interested in ramping up the background check process for purchasing guns and will profit mightily if they can push that requirement on all private sellers. They have the infrastructure to handle that workload cheapily and efficiently.
But if they can make the process so complex and arcane that private sellers can't handle it, and even small gun shops get mystified by the process, and gun show sales will become exceedingly difficult, they will have closed down most of their competition in the firearms market without actually having to outcompete. Oh, sure, your Cabelas and Bass Pros will still be in the market, but that will be about it.
Sure, all the anti-gun crowd don't have much of a problem with gun buying being incredibly difficult. That's their plan. But at least be smart enough to realize that doing so means handing the market over to folks like Walmart.
@Dave1bg:
An Assault weapon ban or limits may not reduce violent crime statistics, but it may stop one kid from being shot with 11 rounds like what happened last December. I'm not sure how violent crime statistics are put together: Do the 20 deaths in Newtown equate to 1 violent occurence - or- does each death get equal billing in the statistics.
This is why statistics are interesting but you must delve into the details
A comparison for you: in 1984, the 3rd breaklight was mandated on all cars. The result of having that third breaklight reduced rear-end crashes by 7%. It didn't SOLVE all rear-end crashes, but it certainly helped reduce injury and fatalities.
There are a number of "fixes" for gun violence. No one answer will solve the problem but every little bit helps.
Pablo--It is the height of asinine policy to make write it based on it's ability to stop a single bad occurrence. And it's nadir of poor rhetoric to rely on that trope. By that logic we can ban baseball bats if it keeps just one kid from being beaten to death with one. And before you cry reductio ad absurdum, police in England frequently arrest people for carrying baseball bats in public, as they classify them as a "potentially offensive weapon."
This isn't about gun safety, this is about control, meaning the New World Order. Understand that our goverment are satanist's, they literally worship Luciefer. Martial Law is coming into place and this is just the birth pains. Search up Arron Russo Interview and watch it. You can get anymore proof from that video.
constitutionallist Understand that our government are satanist's, they literally worship Luciefer.
Who the f uck is arron russo? Dude if your buying into what he says you have problems. Someone else is in control of your mind. Maybe its arron russo.
I hope this dude doesn't own any guns! Just like the nutjob interviewed by Piers Morgan. It's frightening how many paranoid/schizophrenics walk our streets
Someone please tell me that Constitutionallist is on the list to deny gun purchases. Please.
....and Joe Biden had to keep being told by his people that it wasn't appropriate to keep trying to hand the Wal-Mart representatives his application to be a greeter at their Washington DC store. Fortunately for Biden, the Wal-Mart representatives were unable to read his his name on the application, being he filled it out in crayon....this saved Biden a boatload of embarrassment!
I have a registered gun and a license to carry it. It should be that way for every gun.
Real meaning.."we didn't think there would be so much negative press on this so we are changing our minds"
Hey all you progerssives who love Gun Control advocates like Hitler, Mao, Stalin, King George III, all you you collectivist bigots who only care about the next time they can drool over obamas picture. Wall Mart is on you side this time! Why do you think they "Decided to send someone."
Wall Mart is interested in making money. Yes the Capitalist pigs that they are they love raking in the dough!
They are there to add their muscle to shut down private party transactions, gun shows and small gun shops so you will only be able to buy a gun legally from them or Big 5 or Bass Pro or Cabellas.
Get it? Crony Capitalism
Remember the Buffet rule? All of his big donors like Warren Buffet George Soros who live off if dividend income taxed at 15%? They were not touched when everyone elses' (Yes you too- check your next paycheck) paycheck got smaller. More Crony Capitalism!
And all the new 28 hour employees? Thank Obama care because it was written that way! But again that's what he wants. Under employed, underpaid, on the Government entitlement program and willing to vote democrap to protect your little handout. PLUS a new low paying job created buy the stimulus (I mean Obama care) for every 3 workers! It's not by accident progressive workers paradises have only poor and often starving populations
Slowly but steadily the state grows and your freedoms shrink. Yes they will get the guns when the time comes. "If you don't want to starve surrender all your guns." People will choose security and a hot meal over amendments 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,and 8. I left out 9, and 10 because the Supreme Court basically deleted them already. Number 3?
When and if neccessary that will go bye bye too.
Just like 1933 Germany people will vote themselves into slavery if they are scared enough!
Rant, party of one. Rant, party of one.
Donald....You forgot to mention Adelson as a big donor and he spent 100 million dollars on the loser. Thats $100,000,000.00 on the LOSER.
Why did walmart decide to go to the w.h.? think about it. why are they important to Obamas plan? get the big retailers on you side and wait what will happen. think, think, think.
The only reason Walmart has got a seat at the table is that they contributed huge sums of money to the Obama campaign. Walmart should not have any say at all in the decision to ban or not to ban guns. They have bulldozed every mom and pop store in America and put most out of business. They are doing all they can do to get into banking and were slapped down on that one a couple of years ago, so now they jump on the wagon to back the president in his crusade on guns. I imagine that they expect a big payoff in this one. I don't think they really care if they sell guns or not, that is not where their money is made anyway, they expect a return on their investment in this, by being allowed to start up their own line of credit cards to be used anywhere, not just in their stores. When that happens, they will take over the banking industry, just like they have the retail industry. Their involvement is a win, win situation. They can help put the little guys out of business of selling guns, then a few years down the road, they will be the largest retailer of guns and will offer just a few types if any and the anti gun people will be happy. They will have gotten their ok from the president to start their own bank and America will get screwed. This is a Trojan Horse people. I hope that after they get this done, they fail and go out of business. Boycott Walmart before they own everything you have.
More gun control laws, banning of clips and magazines that hold more than ten bullets, and anything else you can think of, will change very little, in the way of crimes that are committed with firearms. I will keep repeating myself over and over, until maybe someone with a brain who creates legislation can let it soak in.
A weapon without ammo is nothing more than a blunt force object and by making ammo have some accountability and restrictions about its purchase to consumers, doesn't create any inconveniences for all LEGAL citizens who qualify for gun ownership. You can't vote if your a felon, you can't own a legal gun if your a felon, but there is no law stating you can't buy ammo. That's right, you can be a felon and buy a weapon on the black market and legally purchase ammo with no questions asked. This one little thing (making purchasing ammo have some accountability) would make it much tougher for the criminal to walk into any ammo selling store and purchase whatever caliber ammo they needed to commit their violent acts on innocent citizens. Something that can easily gain national support and yet the clueless continue to promote tougher Gun laws! LMAO!
The NRA lobbies against restricting ammo too. Hell, they don't even want ammo to be imprinted with ID numbers on them to make them easier to trace after use. "It would make buying ammo cost prohibitive", well too @!$%#ing bad. Save up your money to buy the damn bullets.
Walmart is also making a big deal about how it is going to provide 200,000 jobs for returning vets. Are these typical Walmart jobs? Minimum wage and 28 hours per week with no benefits? Gee Walmart, your generousity is overwhelming. These guys have already lived through hell. Is there some reason to believe living in poverty is doing them a favor?