I was astounded to hear someone yesterday say that in many urban areas, $250,000 really isn't rich. Well, try telling that to someone who makes $25,000 at the Wal Mart in that urban area and is on food stamps. This person went on to say how the 250,000 person might have kids in college at 60K and help out parents--didn't mention the McMansion and vacations, etc. So those people need a tax break but the unemployed don't need any more help and goodbye to the payroll tax reduction.

No one (media included) is talking about Cuts in Defense... I say lets go over the cliff.

My Gen X/Y peers do not let the direction of the conversation be dictated to you.

The Fiscal Cliff Illusion

Once you study the history of banking and finance; you will understand that the current US government consists mostly of self serving puppet lap dogs who kowtow to their international banker masters rather than serve the majority of citizens “We The People”. After financing both sides of every war since the conception of the United States, bastardizing commerce with their monetary system monopoly, benefiting only their greed and lust, the international banker cartel says we owe them a national debt. Now they figure they are entitled to take away benefits we worked for like slave laborers, to pay back FIAT money they created from nowhere by slight of hand mystical boga boo. The fiscal cliff is a crock, we owe them less than nothing. In realty those banksters owe us for centuries of illegal immoral unconstitutional monetary system monopolization by war profiteering bean counters; it's historical fact. For keeping our nation in perpetual utter moral default; it is they that are ethically bankrupt, we don't owe them, they owe us. It is time we follow our Constitution, Codes 18 USC § 242 and 42 USC § 1983 demanding a people's monetary system managed by our elected representatives based on the value of work and being humane rather than on corruption, usury and infinite greed.

Under Article 1 Section 8, assigning various powers to Congress, Clause 2 gives our Congress the authority to regulate commerce; impossible once they gave away the control of the monetary system to private international interests. In Clause 4 of this Section, Congress, elected officials, replaceable every two years, are to regulate the value of money, not a private for-profit banker cabal. On to Article 1, Section 9, clause 7: “No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published...” Under the criminal Federal Reserve, there is no public money, just public debt. Coincidentally on the day before the 9/11/01 attacks, Donald Rumsfeld said the Pentagon lost over a trillion dollars. Monetary system monopolizers and war profiteers are the same 'klan'; if not, wouldn't the bankers find out where that money went? The next Clause begins, “ No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States:”. Ben Bernanke, Federal Reserve Chairman is also on the board of the Bank for International Settlements, the national debt is a fleecing of slavery. The Federal Reserve is unconstitutional just like the First Bank charter to the Rothschilds. December 23, 1913 was not the first time we were sold out by our de facto lap dog government. Study Abe Lincoln and greenback interest free US dollars used to finance the Union Civil War effort. Study John F. Kennedy executive order 11110. For a short time, the US Treasury printed money independent of the bankster Reserve. Money is for fair exchange of goods and services. We shall be free at last.

They'll end up pushing almost all of it further out, 6 months or so. Then when we hit it again, they'll be running around like chickens with their heads cut of, AGAIN.

I wonder how much of this mess is so they can push the stock market around, and buy/sell accordingly.

Like sand through an hourglass...

Just like the Soap Opera....these are the "Days of our Lives"!

Actors pretending to be legislators!

Ermmm...taxes will go up on almost all people...did you know that?

Democrats want to kick the can down the road and continue borrowing, printing money to increase spending instead to fix the economy , why..... because it will require unpopular measures, so what they do , let Republicans bring the unpopular solutions and use them has a punching ball and accuse them to go against the poor, the elderly and others, selling the phony idea that increasing the taxes to small business , high meddle class, and millionaires are the solution to our financial problems . This is the dirty game of Democrats , taking hostage our future generations with more and more debt . Shame of them.

"Actors pretending to be legislators!"

I'm not a legislator, but I play one on TV.

There you go again crazy Larry,

enslaved to a totalitarian govt.

Even more sick is the love of stealing from others as marxist liberalism is founded upon

Who is enslaved? How are taxes marxism?

Hyperbole is entertaining to a point, but.....

We have a representative democracy, "we" as a people elected our Representatives who passes laws to collect taxes. You, by law, have to pay taxes based on your income, among other factors.

NOT paying said taxes is a crime. Since when is crime freedom?

Since when is obeying the laws enacted through representative democracy Communist?

@American Girl-724855#1.8: Your belief is historical fact. Conservative republicans have always wished to exact legislative punishment upon the poor, infirm, disabled, and general working class people. They never miss any opportunity to pile as much harshness upon them as they can think of. In fact, these conservatives base this on the known economic failure of "Austrian" economic discipline, that is the direct opposite of a variety of known workable monetarists models, which incorporate relief and fairness to the aforementioned. I have always found it quite ironic when conservatives call "progressives" communistic because they wish to take care of such people, while at the same time, communist governments have histories of treating their classes of such people in the very same way as the republican conservatives wish to do. Regards

As I watch this painful exercise continue, it is very obvious to me the underlying problem is that the Republicans will not agree to much the President proposes and would rather let the country suffer in so many ways. Even after a good victory in November for the President, nothing has changed for Republicans...they are still hell bent on doing everything within their caucus to make sure he will not succeed.

We are still back where we were on the night of Jan 20, 2009 when 15 members of the GOP met to plot and plan how to ruin the Presidency of the first African American President and the country he was duly elected by, to make him a one term and ruin the financial health of the country and many of its citizens....what cowards and traitors Republicans have representing them.

LAr

The problem with the Democrats plan is the definition of rich. First they define it as $250K and above. Then they have equated rich to bad.

What Democrat has ever done that?

It's just not true.

Democrats want all Americans to do well. Some will do very well. Those that have done very well, have done well enough to afford a slightly higher tax rate.

That's not "equating the rich to be bad", that's expecting the wealthy to pay more in tax, that's it.

Who is enslaved?

The only enslavement happening right now comes from the tea party - and it is more akin to hostage taking. Watching the Tea Party Express vomit bag Amy Kremer on Up with Chris this weekend was simply astounding. If you gave her everything she wanted in exchange for a 1% tax increase, her final offer is to kill the hostage. In fact, every possible offer would entail killing the hostage - which begs the question, why negotiate with the Tea Party terrorists? They are bent on destroying the country for ideology, and just like a jihadist, are more than willing to kill the hostage, just for fun.

" Then they have equated rich to bad.."

For the gazillionth time- NO they have not. iIch doesn't = bad, it's HOW a lot of that wealth was obtained that is the issue. As in- "if I can send YOUR job to China, I get to keep MORE for ME".

Get it yet?

(and 1funny girl- pls bring back the cleavage. Fox will never hire you on account of Whylie Cyote falling off a cliff for the 'gazillionth' time.

Feisty, Senator Harkin is a good one! Had a terrific conversation with him during the campaign regarding the filibuster. Senator Harkin's words this morning are a warning to democrats and republicans.

While I give credit to Reid, McConnell, VP Biden and the others for trying to find middle ground, my guess is that Reid and VP Biden know that no deal will suit these recalcitrant republicans who are stuck on stupid and oblivious to what the American people want. It is better for democrats to keep pushing and trying even if they know this isn't likely to be resolved by midnight tonight. Too many GOPers were willing to allow the Government to default on the debt THEY built, why should we think they'll vote to increase taxes on a small percentage of rich people when they've pledged their loyalty and their honor to some yahoo who couldn't be elected to be dogcatcher?

Talk,

Tell me, where do you get middle class folks on a holiday on an hour or two notice?

Duh, 80-90% of the population is middle class. You open the door and shout. It's not like you have to find a millionaire with AB+ blood, Taysachs disease, taller than 6 foot 4, and blind in one eye.

The problem with the Democrats plan is the definition of rich. First they define it as $250K and above. Then they have equated rich to bad.

Being asked to pay slightly more in taxes so that it can help fix our deficit problems isn't the same as stringing you up from a tree. Get some perspective.

Small business -

Any other time to get close to the Pres at the WH it takes hours and hours of screening and background checks goof ball. You telling me that all got done this quickly? I think it was a planned staging and they have been ready for days.

Once again another "impromptu" get together by the Wizard of OB

Gingerbread

".........ruin the Presidency of the first African American President and the country he was duly elected"

It has nothing to do with race, this is about politics. Prove what your remarks or move on.

Senator Harkin is a good one!

Jody,

He sure is! Him and Dick Durbin are two of the good guys! ;o)

At this point, I'm inclined to agree with Pat, let's go over the "curb" and take our chances with a saner Congress in a couple of days...

My New Years Eve is complete, not only did the lunatic pastor Larry show up, but he has bat @!$%# crazy Cheryl in tow! lol

SWEET!

Democrats want to kick the can down the road and continue borrowing, printing money to increase spending instead to fix the economy

"Continuing borrowing" IS what is fixing the economy. If we had started to pay down the debt exactly when the markets were in crisis, the way you people advocate, we would be in another Great Depression, not on the way to recovery. As it is, your badmouthing and obstructionism has kept us from being as far along on the recovery as we should be. The deficit is down, and that is because we had better tax receipts - and we have better tax receipts because Obama's policies are working - exactly the same policies that he is hated for and derided by you.

, why..... because it will require unpopular measures, so what they do , let Republicans bring the unpopular solutions and use them has a punching ball and accuse them to go against the poor, the elderly and others, selling the phony idea that increasing the taxes to small business , high meddle class, and millionaires are the solution to our financial problems . This is the dirty game of Democrats , taking hostage our future generations with more and more debt . Shame of them.

Right. Shame on them that Democrats are trying to leave future generations with a thriving economy. How terrible.

You know, Republicans have, so far, managed to get away scotfree for repeated attempts at destroying the country and the economic damage they have already caused.

With no action at all today, even the poor will see an increase in taxes. This appears to be ok for your Democrat leaders as they are unwilling to meet in the middle regarding cost reductions. Blame the R's all you want, but the D's are going to let this tax increase hit everyone. They all suck and you partisan idiots in here do too.

At this point, I'm inclined to agree with Pat, let's go over the "curb" and take our chances with a saner Congress in a couple of days...

It's what is going to happen anyway, and it was pretty obvious a month ago. Yet, it would have been irresponsible for the Democrats, including Obama to not make the best effort they could muster in order to avoid it.

Basically, Obama is going to get 100% of what the country needs. The Republicans could have used their leverage to extract some concessions from him, but they chose all or nothing. "Nothing" is better for the country, so really, this is all working out the best for all of us, idiotic as it all looks.

But the officials said the White House and Republicans were at an impasse over what to do about automatic, across-the-board spending cuts set to start taking effect Tuesday. Democrats want to put off the cuts for one year and offset them with unspecified revenue.

Last sentence says it all. Typical. And if left this way and to the Dems, they will never happen. Just like the past. You libs kill me.

Some good news:

Sam Stein:Obama is getting lots of stimulative tax policy extensions in exchange for giving in on individual rates huff.to/12TuLrR

No entitlement cuts either.

Not all bad.

Come on, Mr. President; stick to your guns on the tax issue. If not, I'm actually begging the GOP to filibuster this thing in the Senate or oppose it in the House. If they do, we automatically go back to the $250,000 threshold, higher estate taxes, and more revenue; we can negotiate everything else retroactively. I don't give a damn about what the markets and the GOP would say; I highly doubt that those making over $250,000 cannot handle a $46 dollar tax increase for every $1,000 over $250,000. In fact, they ought to be lucky that the Democrats nowadays have little to no spine or are very willing to compromise; I'd simply let the fiscal cliff happen and stay off (but reduce its immediate effect with $1.2 trillion in spending over 3 years and $450 billion in tax cuts for those making less than $100,000 a year).

You know, Republicans have, so far, managed to get away scotfree for repeated attempts at destroying the country and the economic damage they have already caused.

Don't be so sure, Byron. This current generation is as dumb as soup (no offense to you), but my generation won't be so forgiving over these brainless bastards and traitors. At least that's what I think.

Feisty-

If King Obama had a clue his party would take a vote on his "plan" but even they know he doesn't have any idea what to do with the mess he's making.

Basically, Obama is going to get 100% of what the country needs

Obama is going to get 100% of nothing, this is another can down the road. This is not wath the country needs. The Country need real solutions and this is not happening under the lead of Obama.

Wrong!! The dems and Obama have created the instability with their ineffectiveness to get anything worthwhile done and the most uncertainty has been caused by Obamacare ...

You've got this so twisted. The Democrats (and even the House leadership) can't get anything done because the TP Republicans would rather destroy this country than vote for anything that isn't exactly in accord with their own wishes.

1. The top 1% pay 36.7% of the income taxes while earning 16.9% of the income

2. Those in the 25-50% quintile paid 11% of the income taxes while earning 20.7% of the income (25-50% group AGI between 33,396-66,193)

When you add in Social Security & Medicare taxes paid:

Top 1%-27.6% of ALL Federal Tax Revenue with an effective tax rate of 31.2%

In contrast, the bottom 60% pay 14.2% of all Federal Tax Revenue including SS/Medicare Taxes

The EFFECTIVE tax rate for the bottom 20% is 4.3%

Refundable tax credits actually narrow the total tax liability and tax share to nearly ZERO for the bottom 40% of tax payers

http://tinyurl.com/3jbvb2t

In 1980 the top 1% paid 19% of the income taxes

In 2007 at the height of the receipts of income taxes, the top 1% paid 40% of the income taxes.

Tax cuts have shifted the burden from the middle class to the wealthy who pay most of the taxes (including Payroll Taxes)

http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-individual-income-tax-data-0

Republicans also wanted retirement age raised.

President Obama said - nope.

Where is the "balanced approach" Obama promised ? Where are his proposed spending cuts ??

Can't solve the budget problems.... but has the audacity to give Congress a RAISE?

When an EMPLOYEE fails to do thier job.... you FIRE THEM.......

Congress is our EMPLOYEES... they are NOT our masters..... they work for us......

Time to CLEAN the HOUSE.................. FIRE THEM ALL.................

Oskar.........If you don't think race plays a factor in all these political shenanigans, you don't want to see it.

It's the biggest elephant in the room since he was elected in 2008, read some of the posts in the archives here and elsewhere. Read some of the current posts here and elsewhere......you'll find it.

THIS IS THE BARRACK HUSSEIN, “MAKE-AMERICA-MORE-LIKE-FRANCE” FISCAL PLAN.

This is made up of two parts, the good part and the bad part.

The good part is the so-called sequester, which is the inside-the-beltway term for automatic spending cuts. Actually they’re not really spending cuts, our criminal government is too cowardly to demand real cuts. They’re just reductions in the growth of spending. If sequester takes place, total federal spending will climb by $2 trillion over the next 10 years instead of $2.1 trillion.

Anything that restrains the burden that government spending is a good idea, so a small step is better than nothing.

The bad part is the automatic tax hike. This means higher tax rates for all taxpayers, as well as increased double taxation of dividends and capital gains.

This would be very bad for the economy, not to mention terrible fiscal policy. This is because politicians would have very little incentive to control budgetary waste, fraud, abuse and corruption.

To show the world how dysfunctional this has become Barrack Hussein has decided to make this a class-warfare plan that would repeal the sequester and maintain—and exacerbate—the tax hikes on the newly defined “rich”.

We give up the only bit of spending restraint that was included in the 2011 debt limit agreement and we get a bunch of tax increases that undermine growth and competitiveness.

But it gets worse. Obama wants to double the size of the soak-the-rich tax hikes, thus maximizing the potential harm to job creation. In other words, not just the automatic tax increases, but then additional tax hikes on top of that—all designed to penalize success and innovation.

Rich is no longer defined as a millionaire or even a billionaire. It doesn’t even really define it by a value, now it’s simply a percentage. The mean, nasty, rich top 1% or 2% are now the new bogeymen in our Republic.

According to Barrack Hussein no one in America should become rich, only the Ivy League faculty-lounge elitists should have that privilege. The rest of American’s can only obtain the lofty goal of being middle-class. And obviously many, especially those on the Left of the aisle, are submitting to that. They have lost all their ambition to be more than middle-class. They are willing to just kneel and succumb to the government.

Real Americans refuse this insult to our integrity. If you become rich, God Bless you. If all you want to be is mediocre, God Bless you. Either way it should be YOUR choice and neither of those aspirations should be demonized. Being rich, middle class and rich is what all societies are made up of. To think you can just eliminate ambition with legislation is idiotic.

If Barrack Hussein succeeds, he’ll be rewarded for dogmatism, but he won’t find a pot of gold at the end of the class-war rainbow. Successful taxpayers will just adjust their behavior in ways that reduce taxable income, which means the government won’t get much money even though it will impose a lot of damage.

But damage is exactly what the Barrack Hussein administration wants

At 12:01 AM the taxes go up an Grover will go off the cliff.

Larry, what you fail to mention is that the top 2% paying the higher income tax rates also take home 51% of the income earned nationally meaning the other 98% divide the remaining 49%. Now, to a thinking person that should register that 98% of the population's incomes are stagnant and/or declining so it is little wonder that the 98% earning less and less would be paying less and less in income taxes. And don't forget, the 98% are paying a greater share of their annual income in payroll taxes, state income and sales taxes, local option sales taxes as well as gasoline taxes. In other words, Larry, your comment is only partially correct because it only considers a very small portion of the facts.

Hello folks, let me preface my comments by saying I’m a political atheist, I don’t care what political religion you attach yourself to. While the Republican Democrat blame gamers contribute to the monomaniacal dysfunctional government, it’s always the middle class and poor who pay for this intransigence. They have the blame gamers battling for what type of austerity is to be imposed.

The US economy is caught in a no-win feedback loop.

Corporate wealth translates into political power through campaign financing, corporate lobbying and the revolving door of jobs between government and industry; and political power translates into further wealth through tax cuts, deregulation and sweetheart contracts between government and industry. Wealth begets power, and power begets wealth.

There are four key sectors of US business and their control mechanism that exemplify this feedback loop and the takeover of political power in America by the ”corporatocracy”.

First is the well-known military-industrial complex. As President Eisenhower famously warned in his farewell address in January 1961, the linkage of the military and private industry created a political power so pervasive that America has been condemned to militarization, useless wars and fiscal waste on a scale of many tens of trillions of dollars since then. If you don’t think those in power won’t start useless wars to maintain the military economy you have been sleeping.

Second is the Wall Street- Federal Reserve - Washington complex, which has steered the financial system towards control by a few politically powerful Wall Street firms, notably Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley and a handful of other financial firms. We have a two headed one party system serving their masters the banksters/Federal Reserve and Wall Street.

These days, almost every US Treasury secretary, Republican or Democrat, comes from Wall Street and goes back there when his term ends. The close ties between Wall Street and Washington paved the way for the 2008 financial crisis and the mega-bailouts that followed, through reckless deregulation followed by an almost complete lack of oversight by government.

Third is the Big Oil-transport-military complex, which has put the US on the trajectory of heavy oil-imports dependence and a deepening military trap in the Middle East.

Since the days of John D. Rockefeller and the Standard Oil Trust a century ago, Big Oil has loomed large in American politics and foreign policy. Big Oil teamed up with the automobile industry to steer America away from mass transit and towards gas-guzzling vehicles driving on a nationally financed highway system.

Big Oil has consistently and successfully fought the intrusion of competition from non-oil energy sources, including wind, solar power, fusion and Magrav technologies.

It has been at the side of the Pentagon in making sure that America defends the sea-lanes to the Persian Gulf, in effect ensuring a $US100 billion-plus annual subsidy for a fuel that is otherwise dangerous for national security. That is why we attack, kill, overthrow regimes and displace millions of people in countries around the world such as Yemen, Oman, Libya, Somalia, Egypt, Iraq, etc.

And Big Oil has played a notorious role in the fight to keep climate change off the US agenda. Exxon-Mobil, Koch Industries and others in the sector have underwritten a generation of anti-scientific propaganda to confuse the American people.

Fourth is the healthcare industry, America’s largest industry, absorbing no less than 17 per cent of US gross domestic product.

The key to understanding this sector is to note that the government partners with industry to reimburse costs with little systematic oversight and control. Pharmaceutical firms set sky-high prices protected by patent rights (there is no money in the cure only in treating the disease), Medicare (for the aged) and Medicaid (for the poor) and private insurers reimburse doctors and hospitals on a cost-plus basis, and the American Medical Association restricts the supply of new doctors through the control of placements at medical schools.

The result of this pseudo-market system is sky-high costs, large profits for the private healthcare sector, and no political will to reform. While health care remains a privilege in the US wealth remains a birthright for the elite.

There is absolutely no economic crisis in corporate America because to maintain these behemoths, austerity is imposed on the middle class and poor through some form of taxation. Unfortunately the sheeple contribute to this psychopathy by blaming themselves through the propaganda of the bloodsucking leeches that caused this mess to begin with.

Consider the pulse of the corporate sector as opposed to the pulse of the employees working in it: corporate profits in 2010 were at an all-time high, chief executive salaries in 2010 rebounded strongly from the financial crisis, Wall Street compensation in 2010 was at an all-time high, several Wall Street firms paid civil penalties for financial abuses, but no senior banker faced any criminal charges, and there were no adverse regulatory measures that would lead to a loss of profits in finance, health care, military supplies and energy. These same groups perpetrate irrecoverable atrocities on the global community and are immune to the laws that govern the rest of us.

All the while the most vial corporation ever imagined and created, the Federal Reserve which is neither Federal nor a reserve is bankrolling these industries through near zero percent loans, subsidies or outright taxpayer bail outs through their central planning role that has been granted to them via our government’s abdication of control of the creation of our countries currency.

Unless we remove the tentacles of the Military Industrial Complex, Wall Street, Big Oil, and Big Pharma and cut the head off of this monster that is the Federal Reserve we will all be pulled under only to suffer egregious taxation through the underhanded chicanery called austerity.

The EFFECTIVE tax rate for the bottom 20% is 4.3%

Acctualy it is much less

here are the averages

0-30K on average pays 0% income taxes and 20% of that group gets a larger return than they paid. that is 3/5ths of the country

40-50K pays an average of 3.2% income taxes.

50-75K pays and average of 5.7% income taxes when we made 72K a few years ago we paid 4.7%

75-100K paid an average of 7.2% Last year we made 91K and paid 6.13% income taxes and no mortgage deduction. This is now over 4/5ths of the country

in-fact the average income taxes don't reach 9.9% until 200K.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/18/news/economy/Romney_effective_tax_rate/index.htm

I say Americans need a good tax increase and we also need to increase the fuel tax to average European levels. Think about it we made 72K a few years ago and paid 4.6% income taxes. and last year we made 91K and paid 6%

Howdy Feisty and Peep's, good job of nailing it down (usual writers) ... the Republicans have to show real movement above and beyond what they are going to lose automatically in a matter of hours. If all they want to do is obstruct and threaten to harm hostages - then "No Deal" is the way I feel.

Blah blah blah. Face it folks (even though you get great joy in bashing Republicans only), this whole thing is a charade. To tax the 2% at a higher rate will only deal with less than 8% of the deficit over a ten year period (look it up if you want to make an educated comment rather than a litany). The middle class MUST take its lumps also if anyone is even half way serious about solving the deficit mess; and the less than middle class also. WE have put ourselves into this mess AND we all are going to pay. Get your head out of the sand. To say other wise is simply a lie

Bev the racist is fumming LOL...

Gingerbread Mamma

Oskar.........If you don't think race plays a factor in all these political shenanigans, you don't want to see it.

Proof or is this just more Liberal conjecture.

As in- "if I can send YOUR job to China, I get to keep MORE for ME".

ah an enviroment that is encouraged by our government and politicians both D and R, left and right. One where Imperator Obama has been quick to fix right? Get it?

It explains why most FR lefty posters support the Dictatorship of the Proletariat.

Real American's voted for President Obama.

Real Americans are behind our great President 100%.

Real Amreican's know Republican economic policies have bankrupted this great country over the last 30 years and its the Republicans who created class warfare from Bush's Tax cuts back in 2001 and 2003.

Yep, the Republican's stole our hard-earned working American's money and gave it to the rich under the guise of the Bush Tax cuts.

That is what class warefare truly is.

And that's what Republicans are. Stick it to the little guy; stick it to the hard working, REAL American's.

Then you got the Blow-hards like Rush and Faux Newzzzzz who keep lying to their kool-aid-kooks because they are too un-educated to know they are they are the chumps of Right Wing media.

The Majority of Real Americans are sick of the Tea Nuts, sick of the Propaganda Kool-aid peddlers like Drudge, Rush, and Faux Newzzzz, and they are sick of Obstructionism that keeps the little guy down.

Shame on this House of Representatives for killing jobs and preventing hard working Americans from moving up and trying to live the American dream.

Come November 2014, REAL Americans will boot all the Boehner's and McConnells out of office and we will finally be able to restore American to it's greatness once again.

Salud

Jody- evidently you have a reading disability

the top 1% earn 16.9% of the income, not 51% as you falsely claimed.

in fact those in the 25-50% group 20.7% of the income, which is more than 16.9% according to my grade school arithmetic

Auto 101

Conveniently you ignore: Payroll Taxes, Sales Taxes, Excise Taxes, Property Taxes, State income taxes, School taxes and a bunch more that low income people pay from dollar #1.

That's why Mitt Romney's meager 14% rung so soundly with the American people. With all the other taxes, his rate maybe hit 15%.

I made what I think is a LOT of money last year, made a bit under $250K, and paid 19% in Federal income taxes.

Explain to me how that's right, that's OK? Someone making well under $1M pays a lower rate than someone making $20M?

My guess, some "watered down" version of KICKING THE FISCAL CAN DOWN THE ROAD ONCE AGAIN, will be passed at the last minute, or shortly there after by this Congress, failing to address the REAL ISSUES America needs to address.

Extending unemployment, no tax raises on the "middle class" (whatever that is) and some spending cuts, to be implemented down the road to be cut, will be passed at the last minute.

In other words, get ready for the NEXT CONGRESSIONAL MESS which is raising the FEDERAL DEBT CEILING ONCE AGAIN in a month or so.

To be continued.....

Real American's voted for President Obama.

Real Americans are behind our great President 100%.

sure Comrade. lets do away with Democracy then we all can be 'Americans'.

seems like Libs try to overcompensate for their patriotism and being American by telling everyone they are more than the next. right COMRADE?

Larry, what you fail to mention is that the top 2% paying the higher income tax rates also take home 51% of the income earned nationally

I call utter bull @!$%# on this one. Care to back this up with ANY credible source?

The table also tells us a number of things about equality or inequality, namely that the top 1% of tax payers pay 38% of all income taxes yet only have a 20% share of total AGI. Furthermore, the top 50% of tax payers pay practically all of the nation’s federal taxes (97.3%) while commanding 87.25% of total AGI. This table from the IRS is the source for the often politically bantered argument that 47% of American income earners pay zero federal income taxes.

http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011/04/12/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/

I will accept that the top 5% earn 35% of income earned nationally. (they do pay 59% of all income tax just for fairness).

Further the top 2% actually earn around 13% of income and pay 17% of the total federal income tax (2009 figures).

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/12/cbo-report-confirms-rich-already-pay-their-fair-share/

Obama gave all federal workers a raise, by excutive order releasing freeze on wages. in effect giving congress more of our money, to screw with our economy!

RepublicansforObama - Rich people not paying their taxes...? You mean John Kerry, Tim Geitner, and Charlie Rangle.?

I swear....You liberals are too stupid to even breathe. Romney didn't cheat on his taxes. He used tax law and paid what the law requires. Your Democrats are the ones cheating on their taxes.

What part of this do you not understand? They vote to raise your taxes while cheating on theirs. Why would you support someone that does this?

@nonamericangirl-you got that all backwards, it's the other way around. You need to be reeducated-don't where you were educated at. You can't keep spending money you don't have and when you don't have it and your debt is more than you have coming in, you need to stop spending-it doesn't get any simpler than that. DUH!!!

Real Amreican's know Republican economic policies have bankrupted this great country over the last 30 years and its the Republicans who created class warfare from Bush's Tax cuts back in 2001 and 2003.

If Republicans created class warfare from the Bush Tax cuts why is every Democrat who can get in front of a microphone wanting 98% of them extended?

You make no sense.

You libs are amazing...only in Demo-world is a group of legislators who want the federal government to spend no more than it takes in and stop the generational theft of our kids (who now owe over $50k compared to less than $25k before Obama and the Dems took over spending less than 6 years ago) as radical crazies....

Quick question...how much is one's "fair share"? No one on the left that I know of has actually said...here is the tax rates I want for a solid economy.

Speaking of an up or down vote on Obozo's plan, well he did the impossible the past two years...he got both houses of Congress to totally agree on something...that his budget's stunk....zero votes...ZERO!!! And you want us to use his plan? Please...

And to those who think Obozo has the American people behind him...nope...less than 51% of the voters voted for him...in other words, over 49% think he has the wrong vision for America!!! So, raise taxes like Boehner offered, but CUT SPENDING!!!!!

Paws,

You can always find somebody who doesn't pay their taxes. Republicans aren't pious on this subject either. One guy on here called me a Communist because I said he has to pay his taxes.

Whether Romney cheated is irrelevant (it is now anyway). What we've always complained about is that somebody making $20M shouldn't be paying less than somebody making $200K.

I'll stand by that any day of the week. How can YOU stand by the opposite?

Gingerbread Mamma

Oskar.........If you don't think race plays a factor in all these political shenanigans, you don't want to see it.

It's the biggest elephant in the room since he was elected in 2008, read some of the posts in the archives here and elsewhere. Read some of the current posts here and elsewhere......you'll find it

Is that the best you can get to prove that 15 Republicans plot against Obama, " read some post" , you are ridiculous. Too much ginger mama.

You make no sense.

Alan, Comrade Grandesky has his trusty Manifesto next to the computer, with a RSS feed straight from Pravda.

That is what class warefare truly is.

and Lenin Loves you. For the motherland Comrade!

Iconoclast - You nailed it on the head. The problem of this forum is that you still have people thinking that no spending problem exists.

Sure, taxes will have to go up on everyone to get out of the hole, but until the spending side is actually addressed, nothing will ever improve.

Unfortunately, not many people are bright enough in this forum to get it. They're stuck on sound bites and jealous of people who are more successful than they are. They are not even bright enough to understand that the "tax the rich" is not even a substantial dent on the deficit....but, it may soothe their jealousy for a little while...until they realize that their taxes went up on Jan 1 anyway.

No matter what happens tomorrow the payroll tax cut will not be extended. Never part of the current negotiations.

re: CBS News

smallbusinessownerinny - It's about how you make the income. Investments are taxed cheaper in the tax code. So, next year, Romney will still earn money on investments and still be taxed at 14%.

The higher income tax rate will not bother him at all. So, essentially, you've done nothing to him. And, these millionaires supporting tax increases have already sheltered their money and would not be touched anyway.

You could raise taxes on investments and the old people who are pulling out for retirement will highly upset.

Personally, everyone should have a set income tax rate without all the deductions, loopholes, and vote buying in the tax code....Now, that will really offend some people top to bottom and people will be paying their "fair share" because they won't have the ways to avoid it.

Sorry, but your tax increase is ineffective on the guys you are targeting because the tax code and loopholes are still there.

$400,000 individual and $450,000 for a couple....... time to sign the divorce papers...........

Barry never has been partial to marriage.............

Sure, taxes will have to go up on everyone to get out of the hole, but until the spending side is actually addressed, nothing will ever improve.

And did you notice this was missing from the President's interview yesterday? He talked about protecting the poor, the old and the students, but just like George W Bush called for no sacrifice by the middle class. He simply offered more of the same. Government at a 40% discount.

It cannot last.

@Caesar Augustus: Down in the valley, valley so low. Hang your head over. Hear the wind blow? Kinda pretty, if you listen. Alan, poor fellow, doesn't understand the relation of feet to shoes.

Suggest you take that "comrade sh^t" and shove it where the Sun never shines. You'll at least feel fuller.

Caesar Augustus-

seems like Libs try to overcompensate for their patriotism and being American by telling everyone they are more than the next. right COMRADE?

Monsieur Caesar, you should know by now, that as long as I'm on-line, I'm going to write a column to counter-point, in the same genre and style, as Mr. Spence's flaming bag of dog-doody.

Courtesy of Wikipedia

Comrade means "friend", "colleague", or "ally". The word comes from French camarade and this French word has it roots in the Spanish term camarada.

I am very pleased to hear you refer to me as "comrade". On one hand its a show of friendship, and on the other hand, it solidifies your un-denying believe that I am a French Beret wearing, croissant eating socialist revolutionary.

May you and your family be safe this New Years Eve, and have much health and prosperity in the New Year.

Salud

Why don't they just put the Presidents plan on the floor for a vote?

Probably like his 2012 and 2013 FY budgets even the Dems won't vote for it.

Alan - Yes, spending cuts are being avoided like the flu. SmallbusinessownerinNY is worried about how much people pay in. I'm more concerned about how the govt wastes the money they take from us.

If the govt was actually doing what govt is for...aka roads, bridges, etc...taxes could be cut for everyone and we'd probably have a surplus.

Paws,

Loopholes (deductions) aren't inherently bad, they're only bad when they don't help the economy. A loophole with no economic purpose is useless. Unfortunately, you end up throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I don't like there being a difference between earned and unearned income. Why is unearned income preferred? Don't bother explaining it to me, it's a rhetorical question. All income should be progressively taxed at higher rates. The only argument is what those rates should be.

I actually think the Cap gain and Div interest rates do go up too, as they were part of the Bush tax cuts.

I still can't understand the Democrats thinking, they felt the tax rates under President Clinton was fair and they voted for the Bush tax cuts only after they were assured that they would be TEMPORARY for 10 yrs, at which time they were revert to the rates in 2000. Then Obama, after saying he would VETO any extension of the Bush tax cuts, agrees and signs a law extending Bush's tax cuts for two more years, after which they would revert to the 2000 rates. The Democrats continue to say that the Bush tax cuts were mostly responsible for our financial woes, yet, instead of going back to the rates under Clinton, they cry and whine that only the so called "wealthy" should have to pay more taxes.

President Obama admits that the revenue raised by his proposal would have little or no effect on the deficit and really not about revenue, but is only about a matter of principle and fairness.

It appears the Republicans will CAVE this time, and there will be tax increases for those over $400/$450K, sequestration and spending cuts will be kicked down the road. Isn't this the same thing that the Democrats promised Reagan and Bush 1, just give us a tax increase and we will cut spending down the road? It never happened and it won't happen again.

I hope that the Republicans in the House will let us go over the so called "cliff", and if Boehner relies on a majority of Democratic votes, I hope he is voted out as House Leader.

Hope everyone has a HAPPY NEW YEAR, regardless of political leanings.

From reading your comments you would not understand the answer anyway.

Because of Obamacare the taxes on aspirin are going up over 500%.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, one Senator explained the increase; because they're white and they work.

TomasGrande

Real American's voted for President Obama.

Real Americans are behind our great President 100%.

Where is the 100% Obama won with only 51 % of the popular vote .78 % of Latino that represent 8% of the electorate vote for Obama just enough to win the election. Andale ,andale si se puede, Vote for Amnesty.

Suggest you take that "comrade sh^t" and shove it where the Sun never shines. You'll at least feel fuller.

you first Mac-sky. But Yuri if it bothers you so much perhaps you shouldnt support the hammer and sickle approach to life.

and on the other hand, it solidifies your un-denying believe that I am a French Beret wearing, croissant eating socialist revolutionary

i dont know about the croissant eating thing but yeah we all cant be 'Real Americans' there COMRADE!

Vale

Musician by Night,

This is the guy who said the following about Hillary Clinton and her blood clot:

May a large chunk of plaque get stuck in one of her pial arteries and shut that bjtch down for good.

Evil, deserves no other response from any of us.

Oskar........read Robert Draper's book, "Do Not Ask What Good We Do: Inside the U.S. House of Representatives. For starters, here's the list of attendees:

According to Draper, the guest list that night (which was just over 15 people in total) included Republican Reps. Eric Cantor (Va.), Kevin McCarthy (Calif.), Paul Ryan (Wis.), Pete Sessions (Texas), Jeb Hensarling (Texas), Pete Hoekstra (Mich.) and Dan Lungren (Calif.), along with Republican Sens. Jim DeMint (S.C.), Jon Kyl (Ariz.), Tom Coburn (Okla.), John Ensign (Nev.) and Bob Corker (Tenn.). The non-lawmakers present included Newt Gingrich, several years removed from his presidential campaign, and Frank Luntz, the long-time Republican wordsmith. Notably absent were Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) -- who, Draper writes, had an acrimonious relationship with Luntz.

As you deny that there is no racism in how the GOP treat President Obama, I doubt you'd believe any of this story. But please note, it has never been denied by any member of the upstanding 'family values' GOP, in fact, Newt Gingrich admits to the conspiracy. http://youtu.be/yd0fVf5CsCc and when questioned about it Paul Ryan, your party's 'stellar' VP nominee, never denied it either.

Perhaps if you'd admit to yourself, you do not like our President the man and not just his policies, you would be better able to deal with realities.

Nobody's a FN communist here CA. Get a grip.

I told somebody yesterday he had to pay his taxes, because that's the law your representatives voted for, and guy yelled COMMUNIST!!!!

Gingerbread,

Case in point, only 5 posts up 1.95

JH-479998

Because of Obamacare the taxes on aspirin are going up over 500%.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, one Senator explained the increase; because they're white and they work.

No, no racism. Not us. It's you guys.

Tax revenue.................................$2,170,000,000,000

Federal budget.............................$3,820,000,000,000

New debt.....................................$1,650,000,000,000

National debt..............................$16,200,000,000,000

Proposed budget cuts........................$40,000,000,000

Now lets remove 8 zeros and pretend this is a household budget...

Annual income..............................................$21,700.00

Money the family spent..................................$38,200.00

New debt on the credit card............................$16,000.00

Outstanding balance of the credit card............$142,710.00

Total budget cuts so far propossed.........................$40.00

Lets look at this a different way

You come home from work and find that sewer is backing up in your house and is 6 inches from the ceiling.

What should you do?

Raise the ceilings or remove the $h!t?

Dave from Dana Point and Musician by night can copy from the same place! Awesome!

You're in good company with the man who wishes death on Hillary.

Dana Point, Ha! Figures. Who are you Dave? Dave Hester? YUUUUP!

Nobody's a FN communist here CA. Get a grip.

never said they were. but see inNY, I notice a lot of you hard left leaning posters have a penchant for using 'American or Patriotic' in their monikers, have this desire for proletariat dictatorship(occupy supported by the left), call anyone right of Che Nazi's (although its the left that abhors guns and capitalism ironic eh?), and feel if you speak out against Imp. Obama, they should be jailed ( or labeled a racist). Perhaps i should call you guys NEOCOMS

I told somebody yesterday he had to pay his taxes

Me too and I was called a Facist.

I'm willing to bet there will be two new additions to the 2013 New Year's confetti: Shredded copies of Grover Norquist's so-called "Taxpayer Protection Pledge" and thousands upon thousands of Americans for Tax Reform membership cards.

Let the celebration begin!

Smallbusinessownerny - I understand where you are coming from, but look at the spending side (the real elephant in the room). Your tax increases are irrelevent to resolving the real problem. The spending is so much higher than the taxes that everyone's tax rates could go up 20% and still not pay the deficit....much less actually reduce the debt and improve the finances of America.

Deficit reduction is not even improvement, but only slightly slowing down the train headed for the cliff.

Based on this reality....I truly find this tax issue a meaningless red herring to keep people distracted from the spending.

Just heard on the news that the Senate is refusing to vote on the bill tonight. Harry Reid just said NO!

from 1.103

Dana Point, Ha! Figures. Who are you Dave Hester? YUUUUP!

nope no class warfare here, nope, none at all. Because Dana Point is hardly the Projects in NY see. wait can I say projects or is that racist and taboo?

Gingerbread Mamma

Oskar........read Robert Draper's book, "Do Not Ask What Good We Do: Inside the U.S. House of Representatives. For starters, here's the list of attendees:

Another conspiracy theory, like many around the book shelves.

SmdickholderNY,

At least 2 of us here get it. Too bad you don't.

@ Muscian,

Looks like we were both posting this at the same time.

they will vote tonight at 8pm est; the house vote is to close to call; spending cuts are promised but not set out,it may die in the house.

Because of Obamacare the taxes on aspirin are going up over 500%

Good lord.

Rush speaks his crappola, and his listeners think its gospel.

Oy vey!

Salud

Ceasar,

Don't try to talk sense to the likes of smdickholderny or nastyredhead. They will just call you a racist if you try

PAws,

We need economic growth. All of this fiscal cliff crap is hindering that, along with every other obfuscation and obstruction that Congress is throwing up. And throwing up is a perfect explanation. The media keep feeding the doom and gloom, meanwhile GDP was 3% last quarter and pending home sales are the highest in 3 years. If you'd just stop cheerleading failure, get over how much you hate this president, we might start in the right direction for all of us. Let America succeed.

Dave Hester,

I read it was the House that won't be calling a vote tonight.

RWNJ from Dana Point? That's not surprising at all. That's called stereotyping. Sometimes it's true. Apparently for Dave, it is. Dave Hester is an A-hole from the show "Storage Wars." I think he's actually from Newport Beach, but whatever, behind the Orange curtain. I used to live in LA.

Dave Hester,

I didn't call you racist, I said it figured you were from Dana Point.

Ah Oskar you never disappoint, conspiracy theories, the stuff the right thrives on....you'd know more about that in your state of denial.

Let's hope your New Year will be filled with the realities of life, you know, like the coming inauguration of our wonderful real President. Happy New Year!!!

Obama wants a deal? So where is the "Angry black man" as the red one calls him? Why isn't he sitting down and leading this annual crisis forward? All I have seen is delegation of useless resources to put this to bed.

Where have you been? He's been negotiating with Boehner for weeks, he cut his Christmas vacation short to negotiate, he's called Biden in to try and broker the talks...meanwhile Boehner didn't recall the House until yesterday!

This is what happens when you get your news only from Fox. They spew a lie and repeat it over and over and over again until the right wingnuts take it as fact. And it's the House that now refuses to vote on any resolution, so it's the House -- with it's Republican majority -- that will take us over the cliff. Obama is there negotiating, the Senate is in line...it's just the House holding things up...

The president lied on tv again today. He states the tax on the rich will generate hundreds of billions of dollars in tax revenue but in reality it will only create about $80 billion total. enough to run the federal gov for around 10 days.

Dave Hester,

Permanent, higher tax rates, forever will generate "hundreds of billions" over the years. Maybe not just next year, but with the PERMANENT change, it WILL.

Permanent higher tax rates, music.....music..... Enjoy that music, Dave.

SmBusOwnerinNY

No, no racism. Not us. It's you guys.

Hmmmm, really?

REALLY Small?

All you secularist Liberals/Progressives belittle all the religious, especially Christians, yet you don’t realize how dramatically you expose your racism, especially black racism.

You do realize that blacks are predominantly (79%) very religious.

So, with your blind hatred for religion, by extension, you expose your hatred for blacks.

Blacks are also more likely (64%) than whites (48%) or Hispanics (43%) to say homosexuality is morally wrong.

These are data from the PEW Research Center.

Racism?

Yes, it is you guys.

Political Suicide Hot-line:

Hello I am a House Republican and I notified lawmakers that the chamber will vote Monday evening on other bills, not on the Fiscal Cliff, that will be our only votes of the day.

Ok then, make sure you get your whole head in front of the shotgun, thank you for calling!

davefromdanapointca

The president lied on tv again today.

No he didn't.

My guess is you were too busy looking at Megyn Kelly's breasts again and you just heard what you wanted to hear.

But it sure looks like you just lied on First Read again today!

Turn off the Faux Newzzzzz. It's turned you into a vegetable lasagna.

Salud

A smdickholderNY,

Now you showed you are not living in the real world when you start using characters from tv shows. Then you can't even remember if you are responding to these characters or me as you addressed your post to Dave Hester (still not sure who you are referring to). One thing is for certain is that you have no idea what you are talking about. And BTW, Dana Point is definitely not Newport Beach.

Spence,

What did I say that was racist or anti-religion?

JH said:

Because of Obamacare the taxes on aspirin are going up over 500%.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, one Senator explained the increase; because they're white and they work.

That's racist, no two ways around it.

And BTW, Dana Point is definitely not Newport Beach.

You bet, I know.

Dave Hester is my joke, I know that's not you. He is some dork on "Storage Wars." You started talking about my dick, so all's fair (although a little mysterious why you went there).

"According to an email from McConell to colleagues, McConnell said he thought the 'entier deal was sealed' by early Monday. But he claime the Whie House called in the morning 'demanding' to avert the automatic spending cuts, $110 billion of which is set to take e4ffect in 2013."

So, if this is true, then it looks like the GOP caved on some of the tax rates only to have Obama once again move the goal posts and demand that their be no accompanying spending cuts. Only a promoise to postpone them until later. Yeah, we've heard that one before.

Thomas,

I was watching CNN when the pres spoke. Yes you are right it will produce hundreds of billions over the years and this is the same smoke and mirrors he uses when he talks about any cuts he proposes as he likes to say it will save a trillion dollars over 10 years but when we are dealing with yearly budgets we need to stick to yearly projections and when you raise spending by 1.6 trillion a year yet only cut spending by 100 billion a year you are spending 16 times more than you are cutting. GET IT?

BREAKING NEWS - No vote tonight...

This is the funniest thread I've read all year. (Okay, so my memory ain't too good - ha).

soazDan

...The dems and Obama have created the instability with their ineffectiveness to get anything worthwhile done and the most uncertainty has been caused by Obamacare. Dems & liberals are nothing but malcontent jealous haters!

Let's take the first sentence (be it as it may)... Aside from the GOP/TP breaking historic records for their abuse of the filibuster, SmokeUpURAzDan is also unaware that Pelosi passed over 400 bills in her first term, many of which were heavy-lifts. Boehner the Teabag cat herder has passed maybe 40 bills for commemorative coins and naming buildings. Do Nothing Congress = Teapublican House.

RE the ACA (Obamacare), though long since upheld by the Supreme Court as the law of the land, the Death Panel type of fear-mongering continues. Supposedly all our taxes are going up because of Obamacare (Lions, Tigers and Bears, Oh My).

Though all the rich states are blue, like California and New York, supposedly liberals are jealous of rich folk. And liberals think the rich are bad, and liberals want to take all the rich folk's money. Limbaugh, is that you?

Lar-345817 -- For those of you who may not know... In the South "Lar" is how they say "liar." Lolz, what a classic Swoop and Poop troll. Enough replies have been posted on that one, so moving on...

roybokhade

...That amount of money is a pittance compared with our yearly deficits and overall debt...

To quote our friend Forest, if the tax increase on the richest 2% it's such a small amount, why are you so upset about it? And if "ear marks" are an even smaller drop in the bucket, why are you so upset about that? The truth is one is tax revenues, and the other is spending cuts -- All you rightwingers can't do the math, or more likely, aren't really interested in reducing the deficit. We need BOTH to balance the budget. Speaking of which...

drpaultyler -- Yeah, yeah, yeah, we get it -- A balanced approach is spending cuts only, right?

GeorgeL-2420748

Where is our President, why he is leading. You know, leading from behind everyone else where it is safe. He has what he wants, 4 more years. Let everyone else fend and figure it out for themselves.

Won't find him rolling up his sleeves and getting dirty!

George, calm down. The president who won't roll up his sleeves and get dirty is in the alternative universe where you live. The one who is here in the real world returned early on Wednesday from his holiday break, while the Teapublicans waited until the 11th hour straggling in on Sunday.

Commentary to be continued...

@auto 101 and the rest of you posters that says 50000 wage earners pay 3.2% in taxes I am single no deductions and reading my print out from my tax consulant my effective rate is 15.95% so maybe you need to do a little more research before you post such nonsense.

davidfromda,

If the tax were on what he wanted people earning $250,000 or more it would be a lot more. The change in the estate-inheritance tax will bring in billions more. No going to war in Iraq and Afghanistan just to lose both wars would have save $4,000,000,000,000 and 7,200 American lives wasted!

Spence is racist? No! He's a lot more than that!

All you secularist Liberals/Progressives belittle all the religious, especially Christians...

Wrong again, amigo.

I know you love it when Hannity, Bill-O and the rest of the Murdoch/Ailes propaganda whores tell you what Democrats are and what Democrats believe.

You practically drool all over yourself with seething, self-righteous hatred, because you want to believe they are telling you the truth. You feel vindicated that if Rush says it, then it has to be true.

And that's exactly what they are hoping for.

They know a sucker when they see one, and you are at the front of the line everyday getting your 72 ounce-daily dose of Drudge/Rush/Faux kool-aid.

If you truly knew what Democrats stand for, and who Democrats really are, there wouldn't be any petty bickering and fingerpointing between the two parties.

But that would be bad for Faux and their ratings.

Try and put two and two together, and you might be able to free yourself from the shackles of Faux propaganda.

Salud

My, my, my. So once again we find that the Media has been misleading the American people and carrying the water of Obama and the Democrats.

And now, 0nce again, we see that the truth is not that the GOP cannot agree to tax increase that has been the problem all along,

but rather it is the fact that Obama and the Democrats can never agree to actually cut spending that is what may send the Country over the fiscal cliff.

2833 you are single. According to the smarter than you or me, they don't need all that, so you are taxed to take away more.

maybe SmBizinNY is jealous that Dave Hester's small biz is bigger than his?

Smallbusinessownerny - Where do you get that I "hate this president" and "cheerlead failure".

Asking for govt to cut spending is neither of your accusation and a financial reality.

I will agree with you on the doom & gloom promoted by Congress & the media is hurting everything. The debt ceiling argument just around the corner isn't going to help that either. This should have been handled last January and the economy has suffered as they avoided addressing it in an election year.

I don't care who the president is....Dem or Rep....neither side truly works for America anymore. Neither does Congress. I think they're all bought & paid for and pander to certain bases to get what they want. If it were about America, then this would not even be debated right now and congress wouldn't be full of millionaires. There would be some middle classers in there.

Tomas,

So we are instead suppose to believe the drivel that comes from this site, as well as Huffinton Post, right? It's just one extreme from the other. If you believe everything that is on these two websites you are no better than those you belittle.

CA,

Why do you guys always go to "jealous"

Dave said something about my dick. Now you're taking about "bigger than his."

What's wrong with you people?

Does anyone expect that our Congressmen will be kept out of the bars on New Year's Eve by a vote?

According to the Tea Party, they want the government to shut down. Not voting is what they do best.

It more than obvious that the dems want taxes to rise for everyone in the country. They have been out of control on their spending from day one and the only way to get the money for all their spending is to stall and have the country fall off the fiscal cliff. That is what they want because then everyones taxes will go up and they can feel free to spend more money like a bunch of drunken sailors. But the big difference between them and drunken sailors is that the sailors will stop spending money when they are out of it. The dems will keep spending money even though there isn't any.

DB and 2833,

At $50K in income, you don't get taxed 15.85%

The rates are 10% for income up to $17,400; and 15% from there up to about $70K. Even with no deductions, you paid 10% on that first 17K and 15% on the rest. Not possible that adds up to over 15%.

daveform.... that is absolutely hilarious.

Spending increased MORE under President G. W. Bush and decreased under President Obama.

You are correct, Democrats are Tax & Spend, while Republicans are spend, spend and Spend and borrow.

gcooper8 -- I think it was you who posted the movie promo for Fiscal Cliff -- LMAO! Though Lee Atwater would have said something racist, no? A request for a re-post please.

4:09 PM central time; looks as if we're celebrating New Year's Eve by going over the cliff or at least sliding down the slope for a few days.

"In masks outrageous and austere/the years go by in single file;/But none has merited my fear,/and none has quite escaped my smile." Elinor Wylie, 1885-1928.

Watching this year in politics, we certainly saw the "masks outrageous and austere", the ever present filibusters, the nonstop partisan bickering, the GOP legislators efforts to inflict unnecessary wounds on our country to defeat one man who happens to be President; the unwillingness of GOP and their Tea Party comrades to move an inch to help in the name of rigid ideology while claiming to be patriots.

The year slipped passed day by day in single file yet none of it was cause for fear--unless you watch FOX News or hear Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck sell you fear for their own profit.

The masked ones passed by in single file from town to town, state to state, and primary to primary. We watched debates where "Oops", $10K bets, "pious baloney", "severely conservative", "I created more jobs than you; no you didn't; yes, I did", "9-9-9"; wild cheers for the death penalty in Texas, cheers and applause for the idea of letting the uninsured to die, and loud boos aimed at a gay military man serving in Iraq asked a question--all gave us pause when the "outrageous and austere" sprang forth from the GOP presidential wannabees: Herman Cain, Ron Paul, Michele Bachmann, Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry, Jon Huntsman, Mitt Romney. We recognized that most of these particular wannabees extremist views were cause for fear yet could not help but smile as each ones star rose before it quickly imploded and fell to earth.

When asked about his rise to the top, Rick Santorum declared that "sometimes, the best is not that great but it's the best." Santorum was the one who thinks birth control should be outlawed and gave us this, "One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country...it's not okay. It's a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be." Ahh, yes, another reason to first fear and then smile as his star fell to earth.

The best photo taken after the Iowa caucus was that of a lone Tea Party guy in an empty room, wearing his 3-corner hat, knickers--looking the part of Paul Revere--slumped in a chair beneath a Bachmann poster. All is lost! Ahh, yes, fear slipped further away and then we smiled and look toward heaven to say thanks, Iowa, for sending batcrap crazy Michele home.

Oh, so many, many reasons to fear as Donald Trump, Foster Friese, John Sununu, Rush Limbaugh, and the folks on FOX continued to march down that "outrageous" road until Clint Eastwood talked to an empty chair and we again could smile at the absurd.

Mitt Romney broke a record during the campaign; he lied 73% of the time. How ironic that Mitt, Ann, their family, FOX were so positive Romney would win the election. FOX, for years, has told its viewers mostly lies, trumped up conspiracy theories, distorted truth and told viewers to disregard other media sources. In 2012, FOX finally came full circle--it successfully convinced itself, its viewers, the Romney Campaign staff and supporters that Romney would win because they believed their own hype and ignored all those other media sources and polls--no wonder FOX, Morris, Rove, the Romneys were shocked. Touche'! "And none has quite escaped my smile" like that one.

Paws,

I apologize if I lumped you into the hate the president and cheerlead failure bunch. They are here, and normally the righty's are that way. You tend to post right, and if I was wrong to over generalize, sorry.

The circus doesn't help the economy, but like a lot of people, I get wrapped up in it. It's not good. I'm looking forward to Wednesday when I have real work to do to keep my attention in the right place.

The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
Bet your bottom dollar
That tomorrow
There'll be sun!
Just thinkin' about
Tomorrow
Clears away the cobwebs,
And the sorrow
'Til there's none!
When I'm stuck with a day
That's gray,
And lonely,
I just stick out my chin
And Grin,
And Say,
Oh
The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
So ya gotta hang on
'Til tomorrow
Come what may
Tomorrow!
Tomorrow!
I love ya
Tomorrow!
You're always
A day
A way!

I welcome the most non-partisan bill to come out of Congress in decades: "The fiscal correct". Everyone pays, everything gets cut.

It is about time America pays it's credit cards off without a particular segment of society getting @!$%#ed.

Dave said something about my dick. Now you're taking about "bigger than his."

i was talking Businesses.. you claim to own one, Dave Hester (storage wars) owns one (consignment right?)? not too quick on the uptake are we? Im not jealous of your cyber appendage, go give that tootsie roll a tug yourself.

Well, now Washington has really done it.

No wonder they all want guns to disappear........

With what they have done they would deserve it if the population of "little people" march on Washington and pull them out into the streets and pummel them all.

Why should they control the population when it is clear they cannot even control a simple budget that most Americans have to on a monthly basis.

Washington should stop ALL foreign aid, no giveaways to the UN, no help to our allies, and fix the friggin mess that they have created. This is all before the TURD of a bill called OBAMACARE is launched----get ready for another tax hike.

Washington is broke and really needs to be replaced starting with both parties that are in power.

This is no fiscal cliff. It's a molehill compared to what's going to happen when our government finishes pushing the economy off the the REAL debt cliff - when we can't pay the interest on our loans. We will become third world overnight. Neither you people on the right or the left have a clue.

Heck of a job, Party of No.

If all these guys deciding the fate of our country weren't all wealthy, then maybe they would be able to get their jobs done instead of worrying about protecting their own pockets. Straight out tax breaks just because you are wealthy do nothing to help the economy because most of these people send jobs overseas for cheap labor so they can pocket more of the profits for themselves. What makes sense is to write a bill that gives maximum tax incentives to those companies and people who create jobs here in the USA, place a high fee on wealthy who move their money to offshore accounts to avoid taxes and severely tax imports of items from countries that exploit workers for cheap labor so that US made item prices are competitive. But, our Congress won't do that because, well, they are in this exploiting others for their own profits so deep. They'd rather cut programs that assist Americans instead!

Paws the problem isn't spending cuts, it is lack of revenue. Yes, the government waste money, money for guns and war ships and air planes and spending on wars that are not called for. If you want spending cuts go after the waste in the military and we can find compromise. But when you take a bottle away from a baby, or shelter away from a mother and her children or if they anyone goes to bed hungry you are the failure. Do you understand I hate conservatives and their approach to coddling the rich as much as you hate poor people. So some where between you and me is the middle and I suggest you look for yours over seas as America is not a fascist state as you would hope for. We take care of ours. Obama, stick to your guns, America is not Grover Norquist, it is the people of this country who well over half elected you to stick for them.

Ok DB if I can pay more then so can every one else I see no problem.

Paul-546284

Quick question...how much is one's "fair share"? No one on the left that I know of has actually said...

I have said many times I support Jan Schakowsky's Fairness in Taxation Act.

What is fair are progressive income tax rates. Personally, I do not like tax credits of any kind other than charitable contribution, and even this has been abused (Romney is a prime example). However, this is not the same as a flat tax, which is regressive like sales tax. Sales and property taxes force tax evaders to pay something, but user taxes or a flat tax are regressive (only simple-minded people can't figure that out).

The bottom line is we need revenue of at least 20% of GDP. We are WAY below that right now, clearly indicating we have a revenue problem as well as a spending problem.

We should also learn from Europe that austerity would cause us to slip back into recession (as already noted by someone above in regard to Clinton).

@d-loominator - Maybe that is exactly what our government and the wealthy want - a third world work force right here in America, ready for them to exploit, ready for them to pay pennies a day so they can become more wealthy!

The Speaker's name is no longer John Boehner - it is John Lympedyck. I guess that we all have to wait and see if on January 3rd Lympedyck keeps his job as Speaker. That has always been the principal reason for constipation in the House. It is time THAT turd was eliminated.

Jody, Iowa

The year slipped passed day by day in single file yet none of it was cause for fear--unless you watch FOX News or hear Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck sell you fear for their own profit.

Thank you Ms. Lovely Jody.

I came on to First Read around Labor Day, and have enjoyed your weekly wrap-ups immensely.

I wish you would take over for my loopy cousin who writes these horrifically boring Yearly newsletters of how great their family is.

I hope and pray in the new year that the viewership of the RW media goes down considerably, back to the days before Rupert Murdoch. Then this nation can work together once again.

In the meantime, I'm using the term Faux Newzzzzz, with 5 Z's to express how blatantly biased and predictably stale they have become.

Happy New Year, and may you and your family be blessed in 2013.

Salud

Get back to work, you lazy SOBs! You've had your vacation. Now WORK--just like the rest of us. I don't care if you ever get a break--get to work.

WE, the people, should fire every last one of them, top to bottom. We should take their pay and their benefits, too. Let THEM eat cake.

I've got a bucket of tar and some feathers, as well. I'm sure someone will come with rail to run the lazy elected out-of-town on.

@ TruePatriot-445959 re post 1.143. Happy to oblige. And Happy New Year!

From the producers of "The Credit Rating Downgrade of 2011," comes the Republican/Tea party co-production of a holiday blockbuster action movie for the whole family: "Fiscal Cliff!"

You'll laugh! You'll cry!! You'll scratch your head and think "WTF were they thinking???"

See what others are saying about "Fiscal Cliff!":
"Brilliant... insightful..." - Karl Rove
"Chock full of plain, honest truth..." - Lee Atwater
"I laughed 'til I stopped..." - Newt Gingrich
"...cheese... bunnies... ironing board..." - Ronald Reagan

"Fiscal Cliff!" See it now, while you can still afford the price of a ticket!

This is a liberal blog it is evident since it is almost always started by fiesty. No one could be first to comment all the time. More political games.

ORB 1943

Be careful what you wish for. Boehner has whether you believe it or not been trying to find solutions. They could elect someone much harder to deal with. Picking a villain is easy. Picking someone who will do a better job is hard. If you don't believe me, look at all of Congress, both left and right. There is a quote I hate. "If you can't do, teach" but I believe it applies more to congress. "If you can't think, represent"

I never thought I would see the day that Americans would be so sorry and so jealous of someone that is successful that they would try to destroy their own country to take their money away so they could spend it on people that are not willing to work and make it on their own.

And dont say it isnt true because I see it everyday, people at my work that say they make more money on welfare and food stamps and all the freebies so they quit their job in less than a week to sit and play video games all day and live off of the government and laugh at all the idiots that say it isnt true. You people need to wake up and get real. i grew up in an america where people worked for what they had and nothing was a freebie, if you wanted success you got a job and worked or even two my mother worked 3 jobs to feed my brother and I and never once complained and never took one single hand out.

You idiot liberals that think you should take from those that are successful and give it to the poor are totally destroying this nation. and before you start on me I live on less than 20 thousand a year and i am disabled and still grow my own food to live and work my farm to live and feed my family and never took a hand out from anyone ever nor would I.

How stupid that you people have bought into this crap from people like obama and other socialist set on destroying our nation, you should all be ashamed and your children and grand children will hate you for what you have done to their future in this country because it will be only a story in the history books before very long and you are speeding it up as fast as possible supporting this crap.

we should help our neighbors but not offer a free ride to anyone ever, teach them to work and support their family not depend on government and make the government follow the constitution exactly as written, they are supposed to provide a military to protect this nation and over sight on very fee hings and let each state govern their own people without controlling their lives and as the people demand through elections.

America has lost her way and her morals and will soon perish into the history books and you people are all wanting freebies from a government that don't have to nickles to rub together and you are the cause of the total destruction of the united states of america congrats and happy new year

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM BOYS AND GIRLS WE'RE GOING BACK TO THE CLINTON DAYS.

You know the , the greatest times in resent history acording to the Democratic party. That why you used Slick Willy to get obama re-elected. so why are you all crying. We must be ready to have prosperity again Right? Well....... Right ? Exactly Clinton had several things fall in his lap and let some things go that hit in the bush years after but you Democrats ignor them. The Tech boom ran in the Clinton years. Clinton allowed Bin Laden to go free, Clinton artificially boosted the houseing market with mortgage reform that allowed people to buy more home than they could afford. Then i as his second term was winding down he ssigns NAFTA AND GAFT and other poor trade agreemnets. The tech jobs left like water through a faucet adn our good manufacturing jobs followed. The economy began to tank because of unemployment caused by job exports and then the housing industry collapsed because people could no longer buy a new home and those that had lost them for lack of work. Bin Laden took care of business on 9-11 and the market crashed becasue of it.

ut other than that the Clinton years were great and we should be happy to be going back to those days.

DaveM-877764

...This is all before the TURD of a bill called OBAMACARE is launched----get ready for another tax hike.

Washington is broke and really needs to be replaced starting with both parties that are in power.

Please explain why we should get ready for another tax hike because of Obamacare. Explain how Obamacare is funded, what the cost is (ROI) with Obamacare versus the cost without Obamacare. Please, we really want to know what FAUX Noise and Hate Radio have been spewing to all you rightwingers.

And please tell us how Washington would be better with a bunch of inexperienced yahoos. These newbies would not be influenced by money from Karl Rove's SuperPac, not scared of being "primaried" by Norquist, or listening to someone like you at a Town Squall?

And stop with the false equivalency. The Teapublicans, and only the Teapublicans started 2009 with a premeditated plan to obstruct (per their record fillibusters). Only the Teapublicans have resorted to hostage-taking over the debt ceiling, over the debts THEY incurred with their mismanagement, causing our credit rating to go down and deficit to increase. Only the Teapublicans are unwilling to compromise to protect the rich at the expense of the 98%.

If you really want to fix Washington, just vote out any member of the Tea Party caucus. Things were never this bad until the Tea Party hijacked the GOP.

Awww, too bad, TomasGrande, Fox News' viewership continues to increase, as does Limbaugh's. Then again, those who tune into them are intellectually capable of examing and understanding an issue, rather than simply swallowing the DNC engineered crap force fed to them by the MSM and giant frauds like the Huffington-Puffington Post.

As always, the libbie leg-humpers blame it all on the gop. The gop is not in charge; voters spoke and got what they wanted- an administration that still cannot get the job done after four years of out of control spending.

Now here we are. Happy New Year! Taxes are gonna go up, up, and away and you voters have no one else to blame but yourselves

proudnavyvet

I never thought I would see the day that Americans would be so sorry and so jealous of someone that is successful that they would try to destroy their own country to take their money away so they could spend it on people that are not willing to work and make it on their own.

I never thought I'd see the day when so many Americans would say such stupid stuff like this. Really, seriously?

spider-737231

...Fox News' viewership continues to increase, as does Limbaugh's.

Well that explains it.

gcooper8 -- Thanks for the re-post, and Happy New Year to you too!

If King Obama had a clue his party would take a vote on his "plan" but even they know he doesn't have any idea what to do with the mess he's making.

Unlike the House, which loves to vote repeatedly on meaningless legislation that they know has no chance of becoming law (i.e. repealing healthcare reform), Reid is holding over voting until he has assurances that he has Republican support in the Senate and, together, they can force the House to finally do SOMETHING of substance.

WOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!!

United States will go over the 'fiscal cliff'

Nice job Democrats, the real PARTY OF NO.

No budget for 1,391 days.

No comprehensive plan for the economy.

No jobs.

No hope.

No change.

But hey, Barrack Hussein et al have added more than $6 TRILLION to our massive unsustainable Debt.

Not to mention the $122 trillion in Unfunded Liabilities has been growing by billions everyday.

1960’s “Ask not what your country can do for you”
2000’s “Give us free stuff and make the rich taxpayers foot the bill”
You’ve come a long way Libbies.

Remember, America promotes equal opportunity, NOT equal outcomes.

Greed isn’t someone wanting to keep more of what they earn, its people demanding a greater share of money that someone else has earned.

Hey MSM I am really sick of you! You hype without any journalistic integrity what-so-ever! You play the hype and enflame the masses for your personal gain, not ours! You tell false truths, and half lies to make money, and divide our great nation!

This goes for ALL MSM!

50 years ago, nobody would have even known about their taxes going up for a couple of months, if ever. I am absolutely sick of the media dividing our nation! WE are in this together, right?

Considering that they were silent on NDAA, the Patriot ACT, and many others, limiting the rights of single citizens, I hope the next bill that goes through Congress limits the rights of free press. It would serve them right.

Paul-546284

Quick question...how much is one's "fair share"? No one on the left that I know of has actually said...here is the tax rates I want for a solid economy.

Here you go:

8%=>$25k; 12%=>$40k; 18%=>$75; 24%=>$120k; 27%=>$180k; 33%=>$225k; 39.6%=>$280k; 45%=>$350k; 51%=>$500k; 54%=>$750k; 58%=>$1 million; 63%=>$5 million; 70%=>$10 million.

Capital gains: 10%=>$50k; 15%=>$100k; 20%=>$150k; 25%=>$250k; 33%=>$400k. Dividends: 36%=Everyone. Estate tax: 55%=>$2.5 million. Gift tax=42%=>$15,000.

Corporate: Industrial Manufacturers: 7.5%=>$1.5 million; 9%=>$5 million; 10.5%=>$25 million. Clean Energy: 8%=>$1.25 million; 10%=>$4.5 million; 12%=>$18 million. Everybody else: 11%=>$500k; 12.5%=>$15 million; 14%=>$50 million; 15%=>$125 million. Domestic Investment : 0%. Bond Investments: 0%. Global Profits=18%=>$2.5 million; 25%=>$15 million. Outsource Tax: 24%=>$7.5 million; 28%=>$15 million; 33%=>$25 million; 39.6%=>$50 million.

VAT: 7%=consumer products (toys, furniture, cooking ware, electronics, etc); 9%=luxury products (yachts, china, carpets, etc); 2.5%=taxable necessities (coffee, soft drinks, restaurant food, most store-bought food, etc); 0%=non-taxable necessities (bread, milk, clothing, household products, etc); 4.5%=industrial machinery/equipment (motor vehicles, printers, cranes, engines, factory/construction/farming equipment, etc); 3%=utility (telephone, Internet, cable services,electricity, etc).

Speaking of an up or down vote on Obozo's plan, well he did the impossible the past two years...he got both houses of Congress to totally agree on something...that his budget's stunk....zero votes...ZERO!!! And you want us to use his plan? Please...

Yes; his most recent proposal is a tax increase for those making over $450,000 (up from $250,000), an estate tax increase to 40% for +$5 million, deduction reform at $250,000 and above, and total revenues of roughly $600-700 billion over 10 years. Considering that's well over half of what his initial offer was ($1.6 trillion) and has many concessions on the estate and income tax, you guys ought to accept this plan or have all the concessions go bye-bye. This is too much of a compromise in my opinion, but you guys ought to be lapping this up.

And to those who think Obozo has the American people behind him...nope...less than 51% of the voters voted for him...in other words, over 49% think he has the wrong vision for America!!! So, raise taxes like Boehner offered, but CUT SPENDING!!!!!

We already have by nearly $1 trillion due to the debt ceiling fight in 2011; later in 2013 we are going to negotiate more spending cuts and entitlement reform, but you're gonna have to add revenues into the mix via tax reform, maybe even a 1:1 ratio. $600-700 billion in revenues is pitiful; hell, that's under the $800 billion Boehner offered in 2011 and WAY under what most bipartisan debt commissions have proposed. I say that you're gonna have to get revenues up to at least $1.2 trillion, which will get you perhaps another $500-600 billion in spending cuts if revenues to cuts is 1:1. Boys, you're gonna have to give and give hard to get what you want; if you want to cut entitlements, you're gonna have to negotiate and accept FAR more revenues than you want. Either that or you don't get any spending cuts PERIOD. You're choice; it's time you man up and deal with it and get a taste of your own obstructionist medicine, right wing bastards.

TruePatriot-445959

another Moniker with Patriot in it. As if somehow that makes you more patriotic? Truepatriot of what is a better question?

Funny how the left hates Fox News yet think the 'real news' comes from First Read and NBC (Photoshop specialists). Just admit it Liberals, you're jealous of China and Saudi Arabia, you covet their ability to spoon feed you 'news'.

Remember, America promotes equal opportunity, NOT equal outcomes.

no no no, Remember FORWARD.... PROGRESS. You are now on the road to hell paved with 'good' intentions

I have a question where in the hell is harry at? If you have Biden and McConnell negotiating is Harry getting the coffee for them. You only see this on Saturday Nigh Live, it's to funny. Give the democrats a job and the run around like the Keystone Cops. Even McConnell got a smile on his face while on the senate floor.

Caesar Augustus- The Moniker was established during the Teabagger Hay Days to poke fun at how they think they are the only true Americans, wanting to take their country back and all. But maybe I will change it to Comrade. Sweet Jebus, rightwingers think socialism and communism are the same thing, and haven't figured out they are all a bunch of fascists.

TomasGrande -- I like the Faux Newzzzzz. Mr. Spence's flaming bag of dog-doody was good too -- That's right up there with Mac Forrester. But not to leave anyone out,

Happy New Year to all FR Friends!

spider-737231

Awww, too bad, TomasGrande, Fox News' viewership continues to increase, as does Limbaugh's

Spider - My guess is you have never researched how and why Faux Newzzzzz started.

As long as they blur the "news" with "opinion" and have lots of blonde bimbos then it's good enough for you.

Well that explains it

I'm with you, TruePatriot.

Happy New Year!!!

Salud

UnMerry Cliff-mas...... to GOP ???????????

Happy New Year....to all of you trolls here !!!!!!!!!!

"POLITICS, n. A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage."
-Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary," 1911.

And still applicable 101 years later. Go figure.

the house has just adjourned for 2012; no deal, the proposal from the administration contained no, zero, nada, spending reductions; the administration tried to bluff, the Congress called their bluff; Obama and his group blew any chance of a deal.

Sweet Jebus, rightwingers think socialism and communism are the same thing, and haven't figured out they are all a bunch of fascists.

yep, now who wants to remove guns and capitalism again? Im sure you're name was just a mock of 'teabaggers'. I guess that makes you the teabagee eh? Yep you enjoy your Photoshop news network in NBC. You know you get the 'full' picture. LOL.

Time to lace up the old boots and practice that bellamy salute. See ya Ivan

Remember LEFTIES, this was your 'MANDATE'.

Obama holds a campaign event at the WH today, spiking the football on the 20 yard line. This guy couldn't negotiate free floor mats on a new Chevy Volt. Will somebody tell this clown he's over his head. He holds the campaign rally and the deal goes down the tubes.

This is the weakest and most arrogant POTUS in the age of electric lights.

I never expected any other result. Whoever owns the pictures of the GOP/TP with their favorite farm animal will continue to turn the screws.

If certain rule changes in the Senate come about and with the narrower margin in the house, you might see some progress in the new Congress, but I'm not holding my breath. One possible compromise would be to make the entitlement cuts the GOP asks for, but only for the GOP states. This should please their constituents (if only temporarily), and bring the disparity in the amount of federal taxes paid vs amount of federal money received in these states back into balance. A win-win for everyone....

.... except of course the poor white trash that voted these morons into office, but it might finally get their attention.

Happy New Year to all!!!

Paws93

Smallbusinessownerny - I understand where you are coming from, but look at the spending side (the real elephant in the room). Your tax increases are irrelevent to resolving the real problem. The spending is so much higher than the taxes that everyone's tax rates could go up 20% and still not pay the deficit....much less actually reduce the debt and improve the finances of America.

Actually, if you take the cost estimates of Mitt Romney's tax plan and turn them into gains (simplistic, but better than nothing), we'd gain approximately $5 trillion in extra revenue over 10 years; while that would only cut the current deficit to roughly $600 billion, it would reduce the cumulative deficit over the next decade (which is more important than the annual balance) by over 70% if the deficit is $7 trillion over 10 years and by nearly 63% if the deficit is $8 trillion. Either way, it's well over half of the deficit erased, and the rest can be eliminated via spending cuts and entitlement reform. Hell, if we just let the Bush tax cuts expire, you get something close to that. So taxes are a MAJOR part of the equation, since they are at least 40-50% of the problem.

Deficit reduction is not even improvement, but only slightly slowing down the train headed for the cliff.

If you mean that the current proposals are not improvements, you are mostly right; while the deal would eliminate the tax hike threat, there are major spending cuts that we have to deal with as well.

Based on this reality....I truly find this tax issue a meaningless red herring to keep people distracted from the spending.

The problem is that many people have a false notion about the deficit; many people (particularly Republicans) either say or believe that spending is the root of the problem, with expenses going way up under Obama or (in a more "moderate" perspective) going up under Bush and then way up under Obama. They fail to realize that (A) deficits began under Bush due to the dot-com recession and persisted due to his fiscal policies, (B) that when Obama entered office we were in a recession and spending went up because of unemployment, (C) revenues also went down because fewer people were employed and paid taxes, and (D) at least a third of the deficits that Bush ran and gave to Obama were because of his expensive tax cuts, ergo we also have a revenue problem as well as a spending problem. At the very least, you ought to see that since revenues are way below 18% of GDP (the 50 year average), we need to raise revenues via tax increases in order to help plug the gap. And you need to remember that while tax hikes do hurt a struggling economy, spending cuts do so as well.

Freshieee You're choice; it's time you man up and deal with it and get a taste of your own obstructionist medicine, right wing bastards.

how can anyone listen to people like this? your tax dream is very oppressive and basically theft of wealth, you will drain any incentives and push investors away, you will create a larger black market which will result in a decrease in revenues long term, this is historical fact. you want short term gratification in exchange long term suffering. i liked that you actually have some numbers down in response to a question asked but when you use profane insults to end your retort, you lose. do away with all income tax and have a VAT tax, consumption/use tax is the only fair taxation. do not be envious of others gains or you will have none yourself.

what right do you have to someones elses income? did you earn it? did you do anything to help earn it? so why do you think others should pay more because our government cant play by the rules? we have the US constitution for a reason, read it. http://www.constitution.org/cons/constitu.htm

SmBusOwnerinNY

speaking of the US constitution i see you either never read it or refreshed your fading memory of it, let me do that for you.

Article. IV.

Section. 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government,and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened),against domestic Violence.

hmm seems the US constitution disagrees with your interpretation of us being a representative democracy. maybe you need to read this document that is suppose to limit the power of the federal government, not grant it whatever it wants.

as for all the rest of the citizens who have no understanding of anything around them:

define "fair share"?

when will we start reducing our deficits and paying down our debts?

you do understand checks and balances right?

do you know what a leader is?

what qualifies obama (or anyone) to be president?

why dont you hold the dems as responsible as the repubs for doing the same crap?

do you read and understand history (not party propaganda history)?

did you know taxing the rich 100% will not even make a dent because of how bad these politicians screwed us?

do you even comprehend 16 trillion in debt, 20+ trillion by end of obamas term?

do you even know how much our current unfunded liabilities are?

do not let the government tell you what is best when they have sheltered themselves with our money and played dangerous games at our expense, history repeats itself because we allow it.

The following prophetic Quote about democracy is from Sir Alex Fraser Tytler (1742-1813). He was a Scottish jurist and historian and a Professor of History at Edinburgh University in the late 18th century. This quote is from an 1801 lecture series, and it still rings with great truth:
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters
discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the
majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a
dictatorship." "The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:"
* From bondage to spiritual faith;
* From spiritual faith to great courage;
* From courage to liberty;
* From liberty to abundance;
* From abundance to selfishness;
* From selfishness to complacency;
* From complacency to apathy;
* From apathy to dependency;
* From dependency back again to bondage."
"Perhaps this is why the Founding Fathers did not want a democracy and, therefore, established our representative Republic instead."

Truepatriot:

It is simple math..... Obamacare is like the budget. revenue and spending.....

If all Americans who work pay into a fund to help keep obamacare going it should be a perpetual moneymaker.

In this case, we have alot of poor people, who have no job, no means of income, and do not and will never contribute to their "fair share".

the outcome will be that me- person with job will have to pay more in "taxes" to keep this turd of legislation going- so you can have "free" healthcare. Now multiply the people in work- minus the people out of work and that is the number you get. assuming that everyone just gets checkups.

NOW THE ILLEGAL alien problem comes in with I don't know 30 million to 40 million ILLEGALS (NOT ALL PAYING INTO THE TAX SYSTEM) Who pays for this??????

That is right----INCREASE TO YOU AND I.

get the picture now?

This OBAMACARE is certainly will be more expensive than what I had 2 years ago through my company.

The United States was set to go over the "fiscal cliff" at midnight

All according to Barrys plan!!

Beverly in Chicago Comment collapsed by the community

1funnygirl,

Here is one "Angry Black Lady'" wishing you break your damn neck whether you go over the cliff or not. Your hateful ass needs a functional brain. It's people like you have eat the @!$%# coming out the elephant asses have truly affected your thinking.

My goodness, the racist, bigoted, union loving, "ANGRY BLACK LADY" Bev from Chicago must be losing it. I am hateful and lacking a functional brain? Your comment about falling off the cliff and breaking my dam& neck was funny. Your last statement above this comment is really offensive deary. Perhaps you need to re-evaluate your statements. But then again, you will never be removed from the blog and you know it.

You know perfectly well why they are in the Senate . Why should we Americans accept the same old dumb @!$%# that caused the "Great Recession"?

Yep, they are in the Senate due to informed voters keeping them there - for now. And Bev, the "angry black lady from chicago" when the talk about the Great Recession comes around in your libbie talks, remember who extended the event, and the war that was necessary to end the recession. FDR needed that one to move forward.

Harry does nothing??? Thanks for letting everyone know just how much bull@!$%# you consume. John Bonehead does nothing apart from pulling stunts and sending his caucus home which, by the way, also does nothing when they are in the Chamber except act like clowns. They obstruct and conjure up some of the most vile conspiracy theories. When they are not doing that, Bonehead allows his caucus to attack American with outlandish divisive legislation.

bev, don't you find it funny that your Progressive Senate Leader is only doing what his leader, the "Angry Black Man" wants him to do. Barry needs the money to spend on his policie., The country can't keep on borrowing or printing money.

So Bev, the "angry black woman from Chicago", where has the "Angry Black Man" been during this crisis? Sitting in a hotel room with Biden awaiting an outcome he could announce to the public that he solved the issue?

The "Angry Black Man" hasn't led - he has delegated. Can't blame him for this now, can you?

It's frightening that only two people, Harry "do nothing" Reid and Mitch are the only ones in the room when the rest of the clowns in the House and Senate are absent. Only TWO people represent us?

For the rest of your posts bev, the "Angry Black Woman" from Chicago: keep your racist comments coming......you're good for a laugh.

If we make the rich richer they will help our economy by spending their money..... ahhahahaha......hahahaha....hahaha......ha! Also I think someone stole my profile pic. Probably a republican! Can't leave the poor man alone.

Just like last time in 2008 mostly congressional republiCons refused to vote for TARP (bailing out banks), then stock (DOW) dropped 777 points the next day, then sponsors of the bill added more pork to more members of congress. In the end, TARP not only turned around major banks and auto companies, but also made profits for US government, but most important - saved the country from going into a worse recession.

.

This time, it's the same sausage making process...hard to watch.

.

But there is still time ... to avoid the cliff.

And whyare they taking a break? To celebrate the New Year with their families? Because that's more important to them than what will happen to the country?? What total Jack asses. We should vote every stinking one of them out of office....but they know in two years we won't!!! Will we????

Practically the same crew of obstructionists 13, McConnell, Cantor, Ryan, Boehner, who toke oath on 20 January 2009 to undermine anything President Obama attempts, take control of the Congress, are at it again, and it's not even inauguration day.

What we have going on is part 2 of their plans from January 20, 2009.

Remember people, American Capitalism at work here........nothing more than BIG-BUSINESS corporations, their lobbyists, white collar criminals, and their politician friends, all working together to screw me and you to death.

I bought stock in KY Jelly before this, knowing that the average American would need some, because we would all be taking it up the A...., while our elected officials decide to play the US against THEM mentality!Wake up people, we need to start thinking third party representatives! I can only hope that people will see the necessity to elect other parties, to create a situation for more compromise in our government! These representatives forget that they are there for the betterment of our country, not for what is best for their Party!

Been Telling ya Bev, you're a racist. It's a fallacy to believe if you have dark skin (black, brown, etc) you cant be racist.

How can one party that is a minority be so strong? And you lefties scream MANDATE, MANDATE!

CNN POLL: GOP IS TOO EXTREME

Excerpts:

A CNN/ORC survey released Thursday once again emphasizes Republicans’ weak position in the “fiscal cliff” debate, as public opinion is decidedly tilted in Democrats’ favor.

Fifty-three percent of Americans called GOP policies “too extreme,” according to the survey

The CNN poll is only the latest of several to find that the Republican brand is badly damaged and that the GOP would take most of the blame if austerity measures kick in. That means the party needs a deal with Obama, and will likely try to push most contentious battles into the future when their position is stronger.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2012/12/20/cnn-poll-gop-is-too-extreme/

There appears to be some kind of a deal...with President Obama winning more than the GOP side. But even briefly going off the cliff might hurt the GOP much more.

Good. Now we will return to the Clinton tax rates and spending levels. All you libs keep telling us how great that time was......nows your chance to prove it. Put you money where your mouth is and jump off the cliff!!

Breaking news update - there is some deal done...delaying the cliff for a brief time, renewing unemployment benefit for another year.

.

Obama is winning...keep our fingers crossed...

This has been a breaking news update from PNN (Pigotry News Network), a nun-partisan news source.

last year during the annual "cliff" problem, wasn't it the Progressives who complained when the "Angry Black Man" caved in and passed the Bush extension?

Didn't the "Angry Black Man" want the revenues from the elimination of the bill?

So why are all the libbies now going ape about the situation? You should be happy!

Our spending is at 42% GDP; revenues at 24%. WOW - tax the 2% and the other taxes associated with ObamaCare and perhaps we can take the intake from 24% to 26%!

Changed my avatar from "ME" to Wild E. going over the cliff......it's 2030 hours on the East Coast, do you know where the "Angry Black Man" is tonight? Is he leading during this crisis, like he did during Benghazi, or is it time to Party?

Love my going over the cliff avatar! Wild E. Obama moving forward!!!!!!!!

"REPRESENTATIVE, n. In national politics, a member of the Lower House in this world, and without discernible hope of promotion in the next."

-Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary," 1911.

And still applicable 101 years later. Go figure.

JH-479998

Because of Obamacare the taxes on aspirin are going up over 500%.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, one Senator explained the increase; because they're white and they work.

No, no racism. Not us. It's you guys.

SmallBiz,

I am going to sit back and wait for one of these right wing bigots to condemn JH's comment and these other ones...

Like THAT will EVUH happen, they eat this @!$%# up like mushrooms growing in the dark comfort of their basements!

So easy for these keyboard warriors to hide behide anonymonity, they don't even have to put on the white sheets any more!

I will, however, not hold my breath as not only do they LOVE it, they ENCOURAGE it;

ROBERT-1824614

Kill the @!$%#

#71 - Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:14 PM CST

By the way, I'm not waiting for useless @!$%#ing Newsvine to do something, I have already reported this threat to the proper authorities...

And would suggest like minded individuals to do the same!

ROBERT-1824614

or @!$%# news media

#73 - Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:18 PM CST

Feisty redhead from ill. is always the first to post a meaningless, insulting comment and american girl thinks that Obama* should be as good as Bill "Impeached" Clinton. face it, the paid posters are imposters.

Obama* thinks that americans who earn Between $250,000 and 1 million dollars per year are the Middleclass.

Everyone who earns less gets a tax increase. Everyone who gets more is fighting a capitol gains tax increase which Obama* and the democrats do not want to raise.

You liberals can criticise the tea party democrats and the republicans, but it is the socialistdemocrats who are the majority in the house, and Obama* are the problem.

Harry Reid has a stack of bills on his desk that are 3 years thick. and not a budget in sight.

there needs to be a balance for this to work for the people and it is still lopsided by socialistdemocrats.

Be in Denial all you want, but that is the truth.

Obama is winning...keep our fingers crossed...

didnt realize this was about Obama winning.

This has been a breaking news update from PNN (Pigotry News Network), a nun-partisan news source.

breaking news or wishful thinking? You live to serve Thulsa Doom huh?

Obama: "Come to me child"

Pigotry then does a gainer into the rocks below

E-MAIL your Senators and Representatives, whether Republican or Democrat, and let them know you expect them to compromise and to get to WORK on fixing this issue! I know I am paying attention to my representatives and what they are doing! They have known this was going to happen for a year at least, and decided that they would wait until after election to see who would have more power to sway their political party beliefs! It amazes me that I see ploys on both sides that are being done to the detriment of our country!!!

The first sentance says it all.

they have untill Midnight and the house of representatives adjourned untill New Years Day at noon.

so liberals always blame the other party. They still had time TODAY, but the democratic majority in the house stopped working. ( which they are famous for)

I remember when the Democratic black caucus could not get their way, so they just walked out.

this is like that.

So easy for these keyboard warriors to hide behide anonymonity, they don't even have to put on the white sheets any more!

This is what Fisty has said of others...see if you can spot the hypocrite

Nah!

Leave the pussy-boy on ignore, you can follow the gist of his bull@!$%# by what others copy & paste in their responses... save the brain cells! ;o)"

Get back to us, when you manage to find your balls... little man...

NO!!! Dumb@!$%#!

My power is at the voting booth!

It is only going to get worse for you & your ilk... Mark my words... LMAO@U.. loser!

Gonna be a long 4 years for asswipes like yourself, tell me what are YOU going to do when Hillary is elected in 2016?

Now back on our knees... BOY!

Best part is a delusional, impotent, little @!$%# like YOU, has NO power to do anything!

Ain't democracy grand, dumb@!$%#?

The upside is, at least YOU are not impregnating anyone with your defective sperm...

And Feisty speaks of reporting people to the proper authorities. Talk about unhinged and a 'keyboard' warrior. Oh wait, her other favorite, VICTIM.... LMAO

Conveniently you ignore: Payroll Taxes, Sales Taxes, Excise Taxes, Property Taxes, State income taxes, School taxes and a bunch more that low income people pay from dollar #1.

Pay roll taxes are for the big three and they are not that much for the past few years. S.S. is rely just a forced retirement plan that you get jail time for not participating in. sails taxes are mostly state taxes and that is up to your state. I don't have a property and almost 40% of Americans don't have one. and state income taxes are based on state not federal. overall the middle class hardly pays any income taxes and contributes almost nothing for the budget.

HAPPY FISCAL CLIFF YEAR!

Well done, non-negotiating Congress! I approve of you making us pay for our inability to vote good politicians into office. It is high time voters actually felt some punishment for their bad choices. Directly, this time.

Looks like the only people who are complaining are the Democrats. I guess they are what we would call recipients of discretionary spending.

As long as the Democrats do not want to do anymore Work, They can use their tax payer paid healthcare and have Psychotherapy which they need so much. Harry reid and what's her name, Pelosi.

Unless they are afraid that Obama*care will have them all comitted.

Hillary "Mrs. Impeached" Clinton, has used it for an excuse to avoid questions about Benghazi so far.

One of great things about democracy and freedom is that even morons such as Boehner are allowed to freely show their moronic side. And we are not disappointed by this Boner show.

I am not you,

[they have untill Midnight and the house of representatives adjourned untill New Years Day at noon so liberals always blame the other party. They still had time TODAY, but the democratic majority in the house stopped working.]

Do you understand that Republicans are the majority in the House and that Speaker John Boehner is who adjourned the House ?

The failure of Barrack Hussein continues.

Today our Incompetent in Chief held a campaign event instead of a leadership event.

The childish background of handpicked “everyday Americans” to give the illusion, again, of his being in touch with Americans.

More typical Liberal/Progressive symbolism over substance.

Then he began his latest insult of Americans.

He started talking.

And once again, he embarrassed himself and every rational thinking American. He totally removed any spending cuts to anything, even the Social Security COLA chained CPI indexing didn’t help.

We have a statist gone totalitarian. This is your fundamental transformation of America.

No plan. No compromise. No debate.

No clue.

This is the epitome of the Keynesian anti-American psychosis that consumes poor little Barrack Hussein. His indoctrination by his criminal communist father, socialist mother and then his Leftist-to-the-core grandparents was apparent. He was enrolled in the private, Punahou School, a hotbed of anti-colonialism and anti-Americanism in Hawaii. Then his grandfather introduced him to the avowed Communist Frank Marshall Davis. His years-long association with Marxists, socialists and anti-Americans can only appeal to the Liberal/Progressive cabal that truly hates America and wants to create their wet-dream of social and economic justice for the collective.

Barrack Hussein was voted into office by the unwashed masses, who feel guilty about their ingrained racism, and use it as a badge of honor that they elected him in. Sort of a “cleansing” of their own hatred for what they propose to be tolerant of. They voted into office a man who resents and distrusts them, their culture, their traditions and their government. Despite all the evidence, his support from the New Party, The Socialist Party USA (Workers of the World Unite), the Communist Party USA and of course the de-facto socialist party of America, the Democratic Party the Left embraces him. Finally his devotion to Saul Alinsky and his “Rules for Radicals” that he uses rapaciously to promote his radical agenda and ideology is blindly accepted by the useful idiots. Of course his fulminant love of Rev. Jeremiah Wright has been documented as his famous “God damn America” is embraced by the Progressive ideology.

All real Americans have seen the regression of the Democratic Party into the Liberal/Progressive cabal that condemns capitalism and free-markets in favor of a statist driven collective of elitists from academia. Of course none of these need have any experience in governance or experience in government. They’re academia, and the Leftists worship that rather than any experience from their own absolute indoctrination by their incompetent parents, peers and other intelligentsia.

Today we saw Barrack Hussein take his biggest step towards finally driving the nail in the coffin of a free America. His intransigence to promote any compromise on the fiscal cliff is blatant proof of his disdain for our great Republic. His rejection of a Constitutionally limited government is complete. Anyone who abdicates his responsibility for so long, to create a functional economy, can only be described as criminal if not unpatriotic.

The fiscal cliff is the least of our Republics problems.

fedupwithfed: Of course it's been Obama's plan from the beginning. It was absurd for the repubs to agree to such a deal in the first place. The repub leadership is truly clueless as they still don't understand that what the dems love is higher taxes and lower defense spending. What fiscal cliff? So far, there has been no discussion about addressing anything "fiscal."

So, the economy should start booming. The dems have been arguing for 4 years that higher taxes will help the economy. So, let's all kick in our "fair" share and do it!

Thank you President George W Bush for the tax cut if not MORE Americans will suffer under President Obama administration.

And thank you America for re-electing Obama, or we would be in a bigger mess than the A-hole Bush put us in!

gcooper8 @ 1.16 now that gave me a belly laugh.

I went to my republican psychic "Taxcutta the All Knowing" to conjure the spirit of Ronald Reagan, to see what advice he might have on the Fiscal Cliff. The image in her crystal ball kept fading in and out, I said what's wrong with your crystal ball, she said nothing, he is still senile.

Small Business

In 2011, A single person not itemizing in the taxable income range of 50,000 - 60,000 is has an effective tax rate between 14.47% and 15.98%.

Most people itemize and pay a whole lot less.

Single people have a tendency to not have a mortgage or not pay enough in Health Care to get above the standard deduction.

Iamnotyou.

They can use their tax payer paid healthcare and have Psychotherapy

Improve your credibility. All Federal employees and politicians get their health insurance through the same federal agency and play by the same rules. The Federal program offers dozens of plans, but only pays "up to 72% of the weighted average of the health insurance premiums offered.

That works out to less than half on the best plans.

What a total sellout by Obama and the Democratic Party!!!!!!!!!

I am a democrat, and it is absolutely shameful what we have given up in order to avoid this fiscal cliff.

There will not be enough revenue generated and the 1% will not be forced to reinvest their money in the economy. This means we will be crippled for years. This is a horrible deal for middle class americans. Yet it saves face for the Republican and Democratic legislators. Neither is deserving of any credit on this one - all they did was save their own hides. It's disgusting. I pray that the legislators vote this down and we have no agreement. Absolutely horrible!

President Bill Clinton left office with money in the bank, it's called a surplus. Does anyone know what happened after that?

Obamalicense to,

Yes, illegals hired by rich greedy corporations and offering them jobs knowing they are illegal and at a rate of pay below that of the American workers. I've already mentioned a foundry near us where there are 5 illegals with the same name and Social Security Number and the owners are fully aware of it. I don't say anything as the foundry would have to close as most Americans won't work for that low of a wage and in such risky jobs.

The wealthiest own the Senate

The wealthiest own the House

The wealthiest own the lobbyists

The wealthiest own us.

We are here to make life easier for the wealthiest.

strmz,

Along came bush and two wasted lost wars. Then the teabuggers and demands to honor Norquist their God!

As for those yahoos who are carping about spending cuts! BS!! For the third time in this nation's history, we are approaching the point where 90% of American will lose their ability to own their own homes. Shame on you!!! Your defense of the 1% will result in your children and grandchildren becoming wage slaves.

You don't have 10 million to give to your kids - they will be the only one's taxed you dimwitted ninnies!! All your carping is going to result in your own poverty! Geez what a bunch of dumb$&!#s. The saddest thing is your doing this to your neighbors, and you think you have a brain.

You defend a party that talks about getting government out of your lives, and then wants government to intrude into your healthcare, women's health issues, your bedrooms and now your schools. There are no words to describe how f@(%!#& ridiculous this is.

You deserve what you are about to get. Sadly, the rest of us don't.

Hello folks, it is absolutely hilarious reading the posts of the Republican Democrat blame gamers. They create this artificial contrived "fiscal cliff" so that they can enact austerity on Americans and not only do they have the sheeple duped, they have them fighting over which type of austerity to have imposed on themselves. WOW!

America, it is official, we have hit rock bottom, they can't dumb us down any further!

Looks to me like they raised the $ numbers on tax rate increases, kept unemployment insurance extensions paying for another year, and pushed back the sequestration and debt ceiling 'debate'. I'm not too crazy about the first, knew they had to do the second, and don't worry about the last... so this is the best deal they could put together and send to the House.

McConnell to Boehner: "Pass the Deal."

Boehner to McConnell: "In case you didn't notice, the House fell on me and my ruby slippers are missing."

McConnell: "Go to Nancy and get the Democratic votes counted."

Boehner: "Can't you make it so she comes to me?"

McConnell: "Good luck with that, they aren't exactly thrilled either. You're the Speaker."

Boehner: "Thanks, Pal."

clwyd-2621393

I am not republican, but where in this does it say protect the rich? It says Increase marginal rates for individuals and/or businesses. It is about accountability when their was none, and it protects all Americans. Or, is it in your delusional mind that it reads protect the rich?

http://www.atr.org/userfiles/Congressional_pledge(1).pdf

And if anyone treats anyone like a god it is the left not willing to understand that the President is wrong. The country should be looking 2 generations ahead, not what pain it might cause now with all the partisan crap.

No, I see all this BS and I know that it is BS...

When Dubya started, the federal spending was $1.8T. Duibya's last budget, Oct1, 2008 to Sept 31, 2009, was $3.5T...

Let's just look at the numbers. Find the numbers (2010 numbers - latest available) here.

Now, note 2 things:

Out of ~ $8T earned in this country, the top 50% make 88% of the total income.

Out of ~ $8T earned in this country, the bottom 50% make 12% of the total income.

Now, given idiot Romney's discussion of the 47%, does any of this make sense?

I really don't care anymore. The top 50% of this society is taking 90% of the wealth! What makes that OK?

Yippee, the fiscal cliff is averted. We can now pay off our 16 plus trillion deficit and can now run a surplus in our budget this year. Yippee, we can stop printing 85 billion dollars a month to prop up our economy. We can move interests rates back up from near 0% and stop penalizing the seniors and savers. Our banks can now pay off their liability in the 1.4 quadrillion casino derivatives heist. Yippee we don't have to go to war anymore to support the Military Industrial Complex. We're living the dream. May we all take a moment of silence and thank him on high because frankly you have to be high to think this does one bit of good other than to get the sheeple used to austerity. Wake up folks, the "fiscal cliff" is child's play, when the debt and bond bubbles burst and all bubbles burst you will be begging for the good ole "fiscal cliff" days as the rich will insist we pay for these problems as well.

You know the rich's adage, privatize the profits and socialize the losses.

Is this ANOTHER piece of legislation that we must pass so we can learn what is in it?

Last minute, back from the brink, save us all from going over the edge...........

And just what have we given up?

America’s Deceptive Fiscal Cliff

The Financial War Against the Economy at Large

by MICHAEL HUDSON

Today’s economic warfare is not the kind waged a century ago between labor and its industrial employers. Finance has moved to capture the economy at large, industry and mining, public infrastructure (via privatization) and now even the educational system. (At over $1 trillion, U.S. student loan debt came to exceed credit-card debt in 2012.) The weapon in this financial warfare is no longer military force. The tactic is to load economies (governments, companies and families) with debt, siphon off their income as debt service and then foreclose when debtors lack the means to pay. Indebting government gives creditors a lever to pry away land, public infrastructure and other property in the public domain. Indebting companies enables creditors to seize employee pension savings. And Indebting labor means that it no longer is necessary to hire strikebreakers to attack union organizers and strikers.

Workers have become so deeply indebted on their home mortgages, credit cards and other bank debt that they fear to strike or even to complain about working conditions. Losing work means missing payments on their monthly bills, enabling banks to jack up interest rates to levels that used to be deemed usurious. So debt peonage and unemployment loom on top of the wage slavery that was the main focus of class warfare a century ago. And to cap matters, credit-card bank lobbyists have rewritten the bankruptcy laws to curtail debtor rights, and the referees appointed to adjudicate disputes brought by debtors and consumers are subject to veto from the banks and businesses that are mainly responsible for inflicting injury.

The aim of financial warfare is not merely to acquire land, natural resources and key infrastructure rents as in military warfare; it is to centralize creditor control over society. In contrast to the promise of democratic reform nurturing a middle class a century ago, we are witnessing a regression to a world of special privilege in which one must inherit wealth in order to avoid debt and job dependency…

http://www.counterpunch.org

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

I guess the executive ordered pay raise Barrack Hussein gave all government employees must have been the catalyst for our criminal government to do something finally.

In a matter of 3 days they found a way to "avoid" the fiscal cliff whereas they couldn't take a piss alone for the past 16 months since they created this mess last August.

You can all be happy and back slap each other, I think this is a pathetic exhibition of government criminality. And of course now the media will analyze this from every perspective possible and we'll find our nothing was accomplished.

Again.

The Fiscal Cliff Illusion

Do these Congress folks have Actor Equity cards? They should.

Now they can give themselves a raise...

Why all the back slapping when this bill adds more DEBT to AMERICA'S CHILDREN?

Who gives a sh*t what deal the crooked Senate made?! The House controls the purse strings. Hopefully, the Republicans will do what they were elected to do and tell Obama and the Senate to shove the deal up their collective *sses!!

As I predicted on this thread earlier (late last evening on New Year's Eve)...there was a deal struck....

see comments #1.196 & 1.198 (The senate has acted - time for Speaker Boehner to deliver - I still have my doubts about his leadership ability).

.

Happy New Year, everyone.

Just a lot of smoke to get a raise. There are none so blind as those who will not see. and just think we can do this again in two months. Think they will get another raise then too??

Swagganaut

Freshieee You're choice; it's time you man up and deal with it and get a taste of your own obstructionist medicine, right wing bastards.

how can anyone listen to people like this? your tax dream is very oppressive and basically theft of wealth, you will drain any incentives and push investors away, you will create a larger black market which will result in a decrease in revenues long term, this is historical fact. you want short term gratification in exchange long term suffering. i liked that you actually have some numbers down in response to a question asked but when you use profane insults to end your retort, you lose. do away with all income tax and have a VAT tax, consumption/use tax is the only fair taxation. do not be envious of others gains or you will have none yourself.

First of all, my tax goal was to raise revenue and make it more efficient and progressive: I obviously accomplished two out of those three. I am not an economist in any official sense; I do take interest in political economics and public policy, but do not possess (unlike you, I presume) the tools or mathematical models to test such proposals. Secondly, most countries use both consumption and income as a tax base because neither raises enough revenue to support civil society. Thirdly, consumption is not fair taxation because it puts most of the burden on the poor, who spend most of their income on basic necessities and will pay higher taxes than those who make 5 or 10 times their salary.

what right do you have to someones elses income? did you earn it? did you do anything to help earn it? so why do you think others should pay more because our government cant play by the rules? we have the US constitution for a reason, read it. http://www.constitution.org/cons/constitu.htm

I'm not claiming a right to someone else's income; no individual has that right. But government is not an individual institution; it is a collective institution, one where the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. And the people who make money owe a debt to the nation; Americans are the natural beneficiaries of this land's great abundance. It is boneheaded conservatives like yourself that are ruining this country by saying that people do not have to pay for the social/economic benefits that they receive.

SmBusOwnerinNY

speaking of the US constitution i see you either never read it or refreshed your fading memory of it, let me do that for you.

That's what you say to every lefty liberal you come into contact with. Classic right-wing insult.

Article. IV.

Section. 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government,and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened),against domestic Violence.

hmm seems the US constitution disagrees with your interpretation of us being a representative democracy. maybe you need to read this document that is suppose to limit the power of the federal government, not grant it whatever it wants.

In case you weren't paying attention in Civics 101, a republic IS a democracy. It's the form of democracy where the masses possess and exercise their political power by electing representatives to vote on their behalf, otherwise known as an indirect democracy. Republics and democracies are very similar; only very technical details make them distinct. And fyi, the Constitution was not designed to restrict the power of the federal government; it designed to EXPAND it after the chaotic fiasco that was the Articles of Confederation while restraining it within respectable limits.

as for all the rest of the citizens who have no understanding of anything around them:

define "fair share"?

"Fair share" is, quite simply, an amount of money that society deems necessary for one to pay back to society. In my opinion, a person's "fair share" of taxes depends on their economic status and, to quote Jesus Christ: "to whomever much is given, of him will much be required." Or, as Karl Marx made in his translation: "From each according to his ability." I've already stated my definition of fair share, now you demonstrate yours.

when will we start reducing our deficits and paying down our debts?

Right when we start admitting that we cannot ask seniors, the poor, and the disabled to sacrifice while coddling the wealthy and refusing to demand sacrifice from them as well.

you do understand checks and balances right?

Yes; do you realize that they are two sides to every door??

do you know what a leader is?

Do you know that leadership requires compromise and rational-thinking?

what qualifies obama (or anyone) to be president?

The fact that the American people have deemed him worthy and up to the task of handling the presidency.

why dont you hold the dems as responsible as the repubs for doing the same crap?

Because while the Democrats have their flaws, the fault lies in the uncompromising attitudes of the GOP. The Democrats have made numerous concessions: on chained CPI (which would be allowed under a larger deal), on more spending cuts, on increasing the income tax threshold, and the decreasing the estate tax hike. The GOP can't even agree on raising tax rates (more revenues were always part of the equation).

do you read and understand history (not party propaganda history)?

Indeed I do.

did you know taxing the rich 100% will not even make a dent because of how bad these politicians screwed us?

Actually, taxing the rich by 100% (assuming that you are referring to the top 1%) would go a long way to reduce the deficit; you might want to check your math.

do you even comprehend 16 trillion in debt, 20+ trillion by end of obamas term?

Yes I do; in fact, some might say I have comprehended it too much.

do you even know how much our current unfunded liabilities are?

Yes; between $60-$100 trillion, although it is extended over 75 years.

The following prophetic Quote about democracy is from Sir Alex Fraser Tytler (1742-1813). He was a Scottish jurist and historian and a Professor of History at Edinburgh University in the late 18th century. This quote is from an 1801 lecture series, and it still rings with great truth:
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters
discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the
majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a
dictatorship." "The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:"
* From bondage to spiritual faith;
* From spiritual faith to great courage;
* From courage to liberty;
* From liberty to abundance;
* From abundance to selfishness;
* From selfishness to complacency;
* From complacency to apathy;
* From apathy to dependency;
* From dependency back again to bondage."
"Perhaps this is why the Founding Fathers did not want a democracy and, therefore, established our representative Republic instead."

That cycle is because of imperfect nature of mankind; when we reach the top, we naturally become over-confident and allow ourselves to stagnate back to square one, where we begin our journey anew. And societies do not have stagnate and decline rapidly or even gradually; they can simply lose their edges in certain fields, fall behind, and later catch up and resume their domination. We have lost our keen edge, but not because we spend too much on the wrong things (minus unnecessary wars) or give too few goodies to the wealthy; we have lost our keen edge because we became complacent and fell behind right when we should have worked harder. We gave massive tax cuts to the rich and spent trillions on new entanglements in Iraq and Afghanistan when we should have strengthened our already-sound fiscal state and sought to restore faith and respect in America at home and abroad. We stopped innovating in science, math, and education and favored service companies and financial institutions when we should have stepped up efforts to improve education and restore manufacturing as a major economic base. And finally, we let the far right demonize healthcare reform and persuade us that the rich guy helps the economy and the poor guy just mooches off it when we should have fixed our inefficient and obsolete healthcare system and focus on REDUCING poverty and economic inequality via progressive taxation (high rates for top earners) and a stronger yet also modern welfare state (universal healthcare, low-cost higher education, more funding for economic development, and a better labor system).

Is Congress and President proud of adding MORE DEBT to AMERICA's CHILDREN?

What? over 5,000 comments? You'd think there would be something sensible. I gave up after the first 100.

Only #1.16 and #1.61 have given you the only relevant information. This is not one of your sickeningly relentless political rant issues, this is when, why, and how the US became beyond repair: the entire monetary system.

The Fed Reserve and other central world banks must be the only legal terrorists. They have carefully, slowly made us all dependent on them and no one with power has the balls or intelligence to examine what they have done to us and to try to free us from their grip.

All this bickering is meaningless. The old days of civil wars and revolutions are gone. The weapons and force have been centralised and one complaining move from any of us will be crushed.

At least we have the privilege of witnessing the collapse of our country from 300 million souls to a few thousand Machiavellian money/war/ manipulators.

Of course, you noticed the clever way Big Pharma and the gun industry have played the Connecticut tragedy into a massive call for arms for everyone and a need to clamp down on 'mental illness' with involuntary commitment to asylums and pharmaceutical neurological control drugs.

These are a warning to keep our mouths shut and a green light to blast each other to pieces. We're going to need a storm of documentaries to expose what's happening. We need more than a "Happy New Year", we need a future and, as it stands now, we don't.

strmz

President Bill Clinton left office with money in the bank, it's called a surplus. Does anyone know what happened after that?

you didn't read the posts before your own did you. There are several posts that address your question. The blame for our demise is primarily at the hands of Democrats. Your favorite son as a matter of fact started us on the path to the fical collapse not just this little cliff we are talking about here. Check post #1.164. and read with an open mind. The Republicans many of you call "obstructionists" are actuall fighting for America's future not impeeding Obama. Our governmet to stop the spending more than is available. Right now they are spending revenue that they won't get for over a year and even then it is more than is coming in. Many millions of families have lost thier homes and cars adn even thier jobs because of wreckless spending habits Not living within your means will bite you sometime. Right now if we don't take a very hard line against liberal spending we are all going to be bitten. One or two more years of this and the fiscal cliff will be a minor thing. We will become third world over night we our total income is spent on interest on our debt. Can't you people see it ? The time to fix it is nearly past. It will be too late very soon.

The Republicans must be the heroes on this deal. When the word was that no deal was getting done i saw all these posters who said the Republicans were completely and solely responsible for the failures.
Now that the deal is done I must assume the Republicans stepped up to make it happen. Agree?

Fiesty, do they deliver govment cheese? You know, its ok not to be first all the time on First Read articles at the expense of the rest of your life. I'm picturing you just staring at your monitor, freckles fading from lack of sun, mashing the refresh button just to make sure you post first. Get outside and live a little! I'm worried about you.

Backhouse

your math skills match your drivel

...Kornfed..... me thinks Fiesty is a 47%er

Steeler Fan-380417 I was astounded to hear someone yesterday say that in many urban areas, $250,000 really isn't rich. Well, try telling that to someone who makes $25,000 at the Wal Mart in that urban area and is on food stamps.

If someone is working at Walmart full time then that means they have no skill and/or education. That isn't anyone's fault but their own. Most people working at Walmart do so to help fund their college education, supplement their income received from a full time job or SS. Or they just want to work part-time with no stress. In this country certain individuals are always going to be poor, they are always going to be unemployed and they are always going to be on food stamps no matter how many taxes the other 47% of the people in this country pay.

This person went on to say how the 250,000 person might have kids in college at 60K and help out parents--didn't mention the McMansion and vacations, etc. So those people need a tax break but the unemployed don't need any more help and goodbye to the payroll tax reduction.

Actually they need to change the unemployment rules. Far to many people today are taking advantage of staying at home and doing nothing while collecting on our dime. They should make it that in order to collect you "have" to go back and get training, education and a new skill set. Sitting on your behind on facebook and or these boards isn't going to get you back working again.

Taxes being raised isn't going to help the mess this country is in. This government needs to cut their spending. In this tax hike, the democrats were also asking for a new "spending" bill to attach to it. If you ask anyone of those people whom you are ditching on that make over $250,000 they will tell you they don't mind paying more, IF and ONLY when the government stops spending it on waste and starts fixing the big issues this government & country have.

John.Gault

The Republicans must be the heroes on this deal. When the word was that no deal was getting done i saw all these posters who said the Republicans were completely and solely responsible for the failures.
Now that the deal is done I must assume the Republicans stepped up to make it happen. Agree?

No. What a great example of Glenn Beck Chalkboard reasoning.

The Republicans are stupid for not making a deal a long time ago with many opportunities to do so, and would be even more stupid to go over the fiscal curb now. If this is a bad deal, I hope the Republicans are stupid enough not to vote for it.

Avenger-2464988

"WHAT IS THE PROBLEM BOYS AND GIRLS WE'RE GOING BACK TO THE CLINTON DAYS."

I read your post and must say you brought up some interesting points. Also If you could please answer some questions?

What is liberal spending and how is it different from previous administrations?

In your mind, what is the ultimate fix for our deficit?

Is new money or old money supporting the current economy?

Are the current tax laws fair?

Will our children have the spending power that we have enjoyed in the past?

Should every worthy child have a chance to get a college education at reasonable costs?

Are you planning on collecting SS when you become of age? Will you collect SS even if you don't need it?

I could go on, but with such confusion I admit. I'm hoping you can clear it up and teach me something.

TruePatriot-445959

The Republicans are stupid for not making a deal a long time ago with many opportunities to do so, and would be even more stupid to go over the fiscal curb now.

Hmmmmm, so, using your own logic would you say the Democrats are stupid for not passing a feasible budget a long time ago?
Or, are you one of the indoctrinated bobble-heads which don't believe the largest most complex economy in the history of man needs a budget?