Maybe December 21st actually was Armageddon - at least for some. A new age indeed, Mayans! The Silent Film Republicans have finally run smack-dab into the middle of the new age of the Talkies.

It's about time we started driving that point home.

We are GOING OFF THE CLIFF courtesy of BOTH the Democrats and the GOP because the cliff was put in place because neither the GOP or the Dems in congress could do their job over a year ago and both sides played politics to see who they would get in office instead of voting what was best for the country they stuck with party lines. As Feisty Redhead Herself said: It is the job of a congressman to vote according to their constituencies' wishes that elected them in in the first place. Not to vote freely with their own intelligence or free thought what is best for the country.

That is exactly what the GOP is doing, and exactly what the Dems are doing, and is exactly why we are in this mess in the first place.

We need a MODERATE THIRD PARTY BADLY

And I am not a Republican. I am an Independent who happens to see it this way.

DN, you are wrong.

See this afternoon's Washington Post update:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2012/12/30/democrats-report-major-setbacks-in-cliff-talks/?1234?wpisrc=al_comboPNE_p

This is really just all theater. The 'end of the year' for something of this magnitude was at least a few weeks back. Consider that companies have already calculated the next paycheck for their employees. They had to know how much to withhold.

We'll push into the new year without a deal, and then congressmen can have the political cover of voting to lower taxes from levels to which they will artificially increase for a few weeks. That's always the way this was going to play out, I believe.

Excellent comment and spot on about Gregory, if he makes MTP host another 6 months everyone will be shocked...Boehner/McConnell have played the American people yet again..this is just a set up to give them cover when they/GOP drive the bus over the cliff..thinking these worthless far right fools will keep them in office, this will not work..overwhelming evidence the GOP is to blame and they could care less who they hurt..Imagine McConnell wants the bloated defense budget left alone but cut Grandma's $1200 monthly benefit...Clean "house" in 2014, sweep all the GOP out with the trash..

Coz,

I'm on your side, but 0.3% is squat. That's less than $4 on $1200.

TAKE IT, and hold them to everything else. It's off the table from here forward.

Senate Democrats said talks toward resolving the so-called fiscal cliff before the end-of-year deadline had hit a "major setback" on Sunday afternoon due to a standoff over proposed changes to Social Security.

Typical of the Republicans. We all knew the real target was Social Security and Medicare, the ones that would hurt the middle class the most. Don't dare go after the rich ba$tards that can afford to pay more because that would be totally against their best interests. They make me sick and I hope they all get booted to the curb in 2014. If all of you liberal hating rwnj's still think the Republicans give a damn about you, you've been sold a bill of goods.

The concessions for trust funds -- It's the same damn protection of the small percent rich in this country, always the desire to end the social contract and return to the Gilded Age of the Robber Barons, always the same damn thing with these Republicans.

Aside from the IOU in the Social Security trust fund "box," and the only legitimate debate being an end to stealing from the trust fund... Everyone with half a brain knows Social Security has NOTHING to do with the deficit.

And once again, it's the same damn thing with the rightwing to give lip service to the deficit, but in reality the GOP doesn't give a sh!t about deficits. They only care about themselves and protecting their Plutocrat donors. The Tea Party are only ignorant lemmings who have been brainwashed to believe that Plutocrats are "special," and the government is evil, and that their record-low tax rates are outrageous.

If there's to be ANY change to Social Security, raise the cap on FICA withholding, currently at $110K (the cut-off for the richest 5%) up to what ever is agreed to on the income tax rate. If everyone gets to keep the Bush tax cuts on their first $250K of income, then raise the payroll tax withholding to $250k. Fair is fair -- If folks earning $250K are "struggling" and will collect Social Security when they retire, then why aren't they paying into the system on ALL of their income?

This issue of fairness is at the basis of the tax debate, and the simple change of raising the contribution cap would make Social Security strong until all the baby boomers have left the system. I don't know why the "sane" Republicans, or even Teabag supporters aren't out having one of their protests about "their" tax dollars being used as a handout to the richest 2%.

"and are working at it full time".

= DELUSIONAL FABRICATION.

THE DATA DOES NOT BACK UP YOUR MYTH.

Not only do these so-called elected officials need to be unelected, they should be ARRESTED for inflicting PAIN & SUFFERING on we the people. Not one of those leaders will have to depend on social security or medicare or fight for excised pension benefits. This is criminal how they can laugh while millions and millions of people have suffered since the Great Criminal Banking Activity in which we the people were FORCED TO SACRIFICE while Congressional members for some strange reason actually INCREASED THEIR WEALTH!

Once again the Republican party shows their cold, rigid hearts in insisting that the nation's most vulnerable; our elderly and disabled on fixed social security incomes suffer for the fiscal budget fiasco that the politicians all share blame in allowing to happen. Please...remove the cap on FICA withholdings to fix social security, and increase revenue from the wealthiest sector whose life style will not be affected by loosing a few tax cut loop holes or paying an extra 2% in federal taxes.

Helping to create more poverty in this country's lowest and "middle" income families is not the answer to our problems ...the effects and problems generated by families in poverty affects EVERYONE in negative ways, and we need to look for solutions that build a larger, stronger middle class that offers upward mobility opportunities for all, including the lowest income level families, if we are really to look for a stronger future for our country...for everyone. Keeping people in poverty through further burdening their already strained budgets is not going to help anyone. Look back at the fifties and sixties when our country was prospering...those in the highest income brackets were paying over 45% in federal taxes, unions were strong in fighting for laborers rights and fair incomes, and our nation was prospering. As government regulations were removed from financial institutions and corporate giants, taxes for the wealthy and corporations shrunk and even disappeared for some like GE, unions were weakened and eliminated, and greed took over, we fell to our present situation. REPUBLICANS...PLEASE...Maybe just look back at what worked in prior years...and find the wisdom to really work for the good of ALL Americans. Stop looking to the poorest folks to give up a little more to solve your problems. Look to the Words of Christ for inspiration on the right way to go.

And if Social Security benefits are on the table for cuts in order to solve the financial problems our country faces, I ASK ONLY THAT ALL OF OUR GOVERNMENT REPRESENTATIVES IN CONGRESS PARTICIPATE IN THE SAME SOCIAL SECURITY RETIREMENT FUND AND BENEFITS THAT THEY CREATE FOR THE REST OF US. WHY WOULDN'T THEY WANT TO???

Article II of the U.S. Constitution vests the executive power of the United States in the president and charges him with the execution of federal law, alongside the responsibility of appointing federal executive, diplomatic, regulatory, and judicial officers, and concluding treaties with foreign powers, with the advice and consent of the Senate. The president is further empowered to grant federal pardons and reprieves, and to convene and adjourn either or both houses of Congress under extraordinary circumstances.[8] Since the founding of the United States, the power of the president and the federal government have grown substantially[9] and each modern president, despite possessing no formal legislative powers beyond signing or vetoing congressionally passed bills, is largely responsible for dictating the legislative agenda of his party and the foreign and domestic policy of the United States.[10] The president is frequently described as the most powerful person in the world.

Where is "negotiate senate and house battles" or 'babysit lawmakers who can't stop pandering" anywhere in that statement? I keep hearing republicans talk about how he's not submitting anything or he's not deciding everything and it blows my mind. Not only is none of this his job, but it specifically is not within his power. Ontop of that, if he had come in and decided everything for these morons they'd be yelling about seperation of powers.

I echo the comments that what the republicans keep asking for is ridiculous, the democrats don't want to cut spending but some to the table with spending cuts. The republicans don't want taxes but come to the table with... spending cuts? It's like when they tried to reverse the fiscal cliff from a suicide pact with democrats into a murder pact...

I had to laugh when I read about the setback. How can there be a setback when there hasn't been any progress in the first place? Has it really gotten so bad that they consider it forward progress just having all parties in Washington?

Backhouse

DO ORDINARY REPUBLICANS NEED & WANT UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE,

WHEN THEY ARE LAID OFF?

OR NOT.

Here's how the lack of logic goes... If it means shooting their foot off to stand by their "principles" then by golly they will shoot their foot off. Their "principles" are the same vague idealism as "family values" or other simplistic Manichean litmus test, which of course they will turn around and commit the most mind-bending hypocrisy soon thereafter.

I have Teapublican family currently on Social Security/Medicare, benefiting from SS disability, and food stamps, right now as I type. In the past they have also benefited from unemployment insurance, Pell grants, and survivor benefits, yet they were SO disappointed when Romney, the Plutocrat who despises the 47%, lost the election.

WTF do they think the GOP agenda is? Perhaps they don't know because they live in the alternative universe of FAUX Noise, Hate Radio, WoldNetDaily, viral Emails... and church. Or perhaps they know but figure they'll get theirs while the getting is good? It's the same idiocy of shopping at Walmart, knowing it is a destructive business model, but hey I need those low prices.

My mother thinks that if Medicaid goes away, her kids will take care of her instead of going into a nursing home or using Hospice. That's how she reasons, with no thought of whether any of us are in a position to do that.

But the bottom line is, we pay into these trust funds all our lives with the expectation that we too will enjoy what our parents and their parents have enjoyed. If there are to be ANY cuts in benefits, it has to be made at the beginning of a person's career. The cut-off at age 55 is the most f'd up concept I've ever heard -- "Hey, you have 10 years to get a nest egg together middle-age folks! And you better save up for health care too, because that's next on the chopping block."

The rightwing just wants to privatize everything so that the richest 1% can have even more wealth. Been there, done that, it doesn't work. If only Teapublicans had some sense of history and the Rule of Reason...

let me start by saying i have never voted for a democrat. the answer to the ss problem is so simple i am suppresed than no one has ever suggested it. either do away or raise the cap in f.i.c.a. granted it may be tax on the rich but in the long run they will recoup some of their money.

Fiesty

Sorry NewsforDumbFux shut down their litter box for you to play in!

The turtle play too, McConell just said he needs some one to dance with.

Republican cliffhanger

http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/53/2012/12/06/123572_600.jpg

http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/53/2012/12/06/123572_600.jpg

I ALWAY read feisty's comments and always miss them when they're not there.

Robert Warner,

Thanks for the kind words! ☺

Excellent comment and spot on about Gregory, if he makes MTP host another 6 months everyone will be shocked...

cozumeldeb,

I cannot believe Gotcha has lasted as long as he has...

I absolutely despise the guy!

McConell just said he needs some one to dance with.

Hi Bev!

How can you dance with someone who has two right feet? lol

Are you watching da Bears? Talk about a nail-biter!

Feisty, I was in the process of editing my mail to say that you throw insults but to also to give you credit in that you never moderated a board to my knowledge in which you suppressed free speech (separate the two), but now I cannot even give praise where it was due. I hope you are not actually doing this as a job (but I believe you are based on your profile), because you have the tendency to bury yourself almost immediately.

>>>>

On one board, the moderator even collapsed any comments not pro article (even if they blamed both parties) and left all the rest. It was very shameful and obvious attempt at censorship and a discredit to newsvine and msnbc.

What type of cheese do you prefer with your WHINE?

It always amazes me when people like you & crybaby Davy come here and do nothing other than complain...

Tell us again who is FORCING you to participate...?

Sorry NewsforDumbFux shut down their litter box for you to play in!

@TruePatriot...

Very Well Said!!! I can so relate to your family scenario. We also have several members who stopped thinking for themselves long ago as they were indoctrinated into the "FAUX Noise and Hate" alternative universe that you mention and left all reason somewhere in the dust..

Heartlands: I've have been completely puzzled by this situation all along. "Middle and lower middle class Republicans"? Is there really such a constituency? Refusing to increase taxes on the very wealthy - why would they vote against that? A CEO making $40 million/year takes the equivalent of 900 potential jobs out of the corporate bottom line. Job creators - for whom?

No, these people will not be invited to join the "1%" - ever. No, they don't need to listen to Rachael Maddow - they just need to stop listening to the FOX disinformation network and think for themselves for a change.

Why is it that congress deserves a big pay increase when retirees only get a 3% raise at most. Looks to me like we are counted as expendable while they are sitting on the top of the heap and living on the taxpayers pot. Really pisses me off!!!!

Obama gets EVERYTHING he wants by doing NOTHING.... higher taxes all around, spending cuts for the military, end of unemployment benefits..... and he'll be able to BLAME the Republicans........

Why would he have Reid & the rest of the Obamites make any concessions?

I dont understand what all the fuss is about anyway. let the temporary tax cuts go back to where they were before they were temporay cut. The word temporay means that these tax cuts were not going to last forever anyway. People we will just be going back to where we were under Clinton.

When will the Republican Congress & Senate members stop caring more for lobbyist and big business,(Wall Street & Insurance companies) and start representing the people who elected them for representation rather than lining their own pockets. None of the issues, (Higher Taxes for the wealthy, Social Security raises, Unemployment insurance), they are using to stonewall the simple procedure of calling for a vote on the REAL ISSUES.

@Steve...

"Why would he (Obama) have Reid & the rest of the Obamites make any concessions?

I think, because he really is trying to look out for the good of our Country, and is willing to make concessions he would rather not make, in order to attempt to unify Congress in support of some sort of solution to avoid the economic hardships that inaction will reportedly cause. Truthfully, we should throw all Republicans who are refusing to increase taxes on the wealthiest 1% out of office. They are obviously out of touch with the majority of those they supposedly represent.

Everyone of these government officials get an "F" for leadership. I've never seen a bunch of grownups act so childish in my life. The finger pointing has to end. If these people can't get the job done - "F"ing resign.

Obama gets EVERYTHING he wants by doing NOTHING.... higher taxes all around, spending cuts for the military..... and he'll be able to BLAME the Republicans........

Yeah, right. The last two times we've had negotiations like these, Obama got absolutely nothing. Republicans have become used to getting all they want – which is why they're being so childish right now, because they know it ain't going to happen this time around. And even after roundly losing an election, Republicans are set to get at least 50% of their demands on this deal. That's right. After having won an election and having the backing of 65% of Americans, the best Obama can hope for is get 50% of what he wants.

Also, don't misinterpret Obama's stance. He doesn't want higher taxes all around. He's never said that and you don't know him, so you have absolutely no reason to believe he wants higher taxes "all around." Stop being such a typical Republican liar.

Obama has made it clear that he wants to return to the Clinton-era tax rates (which didn't impede growth, which didn't bleed the rich dry, which didn't turn us into a communist state) for those making $250,000 a year. That's not all around. Already, he's compromised and said that he wants to end tax cuts only for those making $400,000 a year or more. That alone proves Obama doesn't get everything. Don't be so disingenuous, Steve.

Also, what Obama wants (less military spending, more revenue) is exactly what upwards of 65% of Americans want. So if he gets what he wants, well, that's democracy for you, buddy. If you hate democracy, they say North Korea is awful nice this time of year.

Feisty

Hi Bev!

How can you dance with someone who has two right feet? lol

Are you watching da Bears? Talk about a nail-biter!

Happy Holidays; GF. I meant to text you that during Christmas time.

Da bear won Woot Woot what a nail biter!!!

Play off next ; never thought I would root for Green Bay.

The gop and the dems together represent the upper 2% - you don't think they're already working together? Seems it's working out well for them. As for the rest, get ready for Recession! Part II

It is quite obvious to most folks that the GOP are not good faith negotiators, they are still playing the our way or the highway game and it looks like we will go over the cliff. Congrats to the GOP, you screwed us again.

Democrats unlike republicans wont all tow the party line, they vote their conscience. Many democrats will not accept a chained CPI which assumes when the cost of beef rises seniors will simply eat more chicken because it doesn't address the millions of seniors who already can't afford beef and are lucky to afford chicken. Republicans beholden to Norquist will fight for the 1% tooth and nail even though mainstream republicans support Obamas small tax increase on the 2% by a margin of 2 to 1 because they believe they owe their seats to corporations and lobbyists and not those that elected them. It isn't concern for those making $250,000 republicans are worried about it's those making 250 million.

One thing is becoming clearer every day, the Russians, Chinese. North Korea's, Muslims and any other country with aspirations to take over the USA is, all they have to do is have patients and wait, as the US A's greedy will self destruct the nation. The constant struggle for power is only weakening the whole country, as to many are in there only for their own good, rather then whats good for the general public. This alternating left and right is only good if you are walking.

This, has got to be, the stupidest, most ignorent,republican/tea party move EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess, that what in their teabags, are not realy tea!!!!!!! (cocain baybe? or glue? or paint?) where is their head? better yet, do they even have a head? When this, was on the table, they REJECTED IT, now they want it back????????? This is NOT a playground, nore is it funny!!!!!!!!!!!!! TO THE REPUBLICANS, I SAY, GET OFF YOUR DAD ASSES AND DO WHAT YOU WERE ELECTED TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AndresTM

Obama gets EVERYTHING he wants by doing NOTHING.... higher taxes all around, spending cuts for the military..... and he'll be able to BLAME the Republicans........

AndresTM,

Only because the President can't negotiate with stupid aka the GOP/Tea Potty. He has a MANDATE

President Obama isn't the only one blaming the RepubliCons

FYI:More people want the rich to pay their taxes. Notice I said "MORE PEOPLE" unlike the brain-dead pundits over @ the FOX NATION who invariably use the generic words some people 24/7 for dumb folk like you.

19 different polls taken since January that demonstrate that Americans support increasing taxes in order to reduce the deficit and inequality. Americans may not love tax increases, but they understand their necessity for deficit reduction.

http://www.politicususa.com/polls-taxes-deficit.html

learn something!!!

Appealing to Biden??? Isn't HE the one they are always putting down?? Good luck with THAT!

Please Republicans do not turn my old body into Soylent Green!

The Dems are the problem and refusing to face reality.

Raising taxes on the "wealthy" solves absolutely nothing, nothing!

America has a SPENDING PROBLEM, which the Dems and Obama refuse to acknowledge.

You are not ENTITLED TO THE JOB OF YOUR CHOICE, nor are YOU ENTITLED TO THE TOYS America offers just because you live in America.

Get out and compete!

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work, because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation!

Let's all hold hands, "rich and poor" and jump of the fiscal cliff! That is the answer!

Blah blah drama drama blah blah..I have a feeling that the world will continue to spin even after the dreaded cliff we're all diving over come the first of the year.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

David Noah,

Chained CPI's were offered as a method of getting the House to have a face saver on raising taxes. Adjusting COLA's has been a part of SS negotiations since the budget negotiations proposed by Boehner and House republicans in the spending cap fight. Obama agreed to put them on the table if an agreement included raising taxes on incomes over 250k and then gave in an agreed to 400k. You are defending a group who cost the economy billions in the debt ceiling mess and are prepared to do it again until they destroy the economy and the middle class leaving all wealth and power in the hands of their enablers.

jkh

Quit bellyaching MtMike.

It's not that bad.

Our debt is 100% of GDP. I'll be your household income is less than your mortgage and other debts. You can pay your bills, right?

We'll manage. This is all periphery. a few percent here or there isn't going to sink the nation.

Have a little faith. The politicians can't ruin it.

@MtMike...

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

So, 2% of a yearly income of $500,000 is $10,000. You really think that 2% is "legislating the wealthy out of prosperity??? My college daughter who made $7000 yearly income paid federal income taxes, as she worked two jobs and took out student loans to complete her Master's Degree. If she can afford to pay taxes on a $7000 yearly income, somehow I don't think 2% of $500,000 is going to end anyone's prosperity. And those retirees who depend on social security benefits as their sole source of income will definitely feel every penny that is cut (or added in their own cost for medicare, etc.) in their yearly budget. For some, it will mean adverse living conditions. Is that really what you support?

The democrats would like nothing better than an across the board tax increase on all wage earners, to put us back to the Clinton era tax rates. Gop wants the taxes held where they are until the economy improves, and they are the problem?

Nidodemus

I never thought I would see the day when American believed everything in life was owed them for free. What a bunch of welfare dregs Americans are becoming. I learned at an early age there's no such thing as a free lunch, one way or the other it going to cost you. And the number who thinks it's governments place to take care of your pitiful life's affairs boggles the mind.

I don't know ANYBODY like that. Do YOU? It's a MYTH you know.

Have a little more faith in your fellow American.

This too shall pass. There is nothing wrong with America that Americans working together can't fix. And even when our politicians can't work together, the rest of the country keeps moving forward without them.

Don't worry, the sky is not falling.

Yes Ken.

Ken,

Gop wants the taxes held where they are until the economy improves

That's the funniest thing I've seen all day.

Now, there's a contrast in opinions. Famous Amos, says "yes" I say "that's funny"

But don't the Republicans want to fix the deficit? Little quandary there. Everybody's trying to stop the cliff, but the cliff is the thing that would actually fix the deficit.

Which is it guys?

The Fiscal Cliff Illusion

Once you study the history of banking and finance; you will understand that the current US government consists mostly of self serving puppet lap dogs who kowtow to their international banker masters rather than serve the majority of citizens “We The People”. After financing both sides of every war since the conception of the United States, bastardizing commerce with their monetary system monopoly, benefiting only their greed and lust, the international banker cartel says we owe them a national debt. Now they figure they are entitled to take away benefits we worked for like slave laborers, to pay back FIAT money they created from nowhere by slight of hand mystical boga boo. The fiscal cliff is a crock, we owe them less than nothing. In realty those banksters owe us for centuries of illegal immoral unconstitutional monetary system monopolization by war profiteering bean counters; it's historical fact. For keeping our nation in perpetual utter moral default; it is they that are ethically bankrupt, we don't owe them, they owe us. It is time we follow our Constitution, Codes 18 USC § 242 and 42 USC § 1983 demanding a people's monetary system managed by our elected representatives based on the value of work and being humane rather than on corruption, usury and infinite greed.

Under Article 1 Section 8, assigning various powers to Congress, Clause 2 gives our Congress the authority to regulate commerce; impossible once they gave away the control of the monetary system to private international interests. In Clause 4 of this Section, Congress, elected officials, replaceable every two years, are to regulate the value of money, not a private for-profit banker cabal. On to Article 1, Section 9, clause 7: “No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published...” Under the criminal Federal Reserve, there is no public money, just public debt. Coincidentally on the day before the 9/11/01 attacks, Donald Rumsfeld said the Pentagon lost over a trillion dollars. Monetary system monopolizers and war profiteers are the same 'klan'; if not, wouldn't the bankers find out where that money went? The next Clause begins, “ No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States:”. Ben Bernanke, Federal Reserve Chairman is also on the board of the Bank for International Settlements, the national debt is a fleecing of slavery. The Federal Reserve is unconstitutional just like the First Bank charter to the Rothschilds. December 23, 1913 was not the first time we were sold out by our de facto lap dog government. Study Abe Lincoln and greenback interest free US dollars used to finance the Union Civil War effort. Study John F. Kennedy executive order 11110. For a short time, the US Treasury printed money independent of the bankster Reserve. Fair exchange of goods and services. We shall be free at last.

Republicons have been obstructing and voting against America as they pledged they would 4 YRS AGO. Numerous times holding out to pay off their rich friends with laws to benefit them instead of America. President Obama finally quits negotiating with himself and the republicons get pissed because President Obama is doing what he was elected to do...represent All OF AMERICA.

Chained CPI...has anyone thought about what this actually means? Time to talk to your parents or grandparents. Basically, it means that the retirees checks do not keep pace with the real inflation. Eventually it means they cannot afford the basics of life. For a year or two, they may get by. Longer than that, they will have to depend on increases in food stamps, etc. But what if those are cut back? Eventually it means homelessness and destitution....All this so people over $250,000 a year don't have to pay a little more in taxes. How sick is this? I do not like the fact that Obama put that on the table in the horse trade. It makes me not trust him. I won't believe him until he wins this hand of cards without hurting vulnerable people. At that point I will rejoice and congratulate him.

It seems to me that in an emergency situation, when the Senate is stalemated, and can't get the job done, then the POTUS should be able to override the partisan bickering and make the decision for them; otherwise, it seems that the President is little more than a figurehead (like the Queen of England).

Politically, this country is split down the middle, and no amount of haggling is going to produce a solution to any of our problems, be they petty, or emergencies. Maybe it's time for a new form of government, because the system we have now sure as hell isn't working. We now have the equivalent of the Hatfields and the McCoys playing Political Power Feud, and frankly, very few of them are worth a damn.

Once again the republicans are showing that they are the do nothing party and can't even work together for America and Americans. Only for their selfish selves! The Executive Branch should execute the Legislative Branch!

It is time to fire all house and senate members and start over with half of the ones we have now. They all should represent twice as many people and cut our government in half. It is time to trim the government at the top.

"In his interview earlier today on NBC's "Meet the Press," the president pointed to his offer on chained CPI as evidence of his willingness to compromise in pursuit of a broad fiscal deal."

So now something that Obama agreed to has been rejected by his own Democratic Party.

So who's the REAL Party of No?

Both sides are arguing about nothing substancial, watch what they're doing behind the scene! Repubs are bad and Dems are worse. I wasted my vote on Romney, a McCain clone who passively said nothing about the Benghasi murders Obama allowed when he could have. I can't vote for the communists we elected and the Tea Party just isn't big enough to win yet, but I will vote to grow, not vote to fall. Government, left and right, are bought and corrupt. The don't care about the debt, the country, the citizens, entitlements, the states, justice, freedom or America. They only care about money, winning, power, government and votes for re-election. They will do anything for their own personal greed. I will vote for American ideals from now on, not for the numbers I think could win. The lesser of 2 evils does not make a right. Ron and Rand! Ryan and Gentry. Individuals that are good, the parties are corrupt. We have to fall off the cliff, we have to hit bottom and lose even more because the threat over us is ignored. Untill we are kicked in the face, losing our buts we can't understand reality. we're surrounded by false realities saying we're OK or we're doomed constantly and don't realize we're repeating history by ignoring it. Vote for what's right for America and stop voting for yourselves. Look, government gave themselves raises for doing such a good job! Wake up!

GOP need to let go and give way to the WILL of the Average American (statistically a fact, not to metion the most recent election).

This is what we voted for. This is who it will benefit. And NO, the top 1 percent does not win every time.

Speaking to the individual GOP, if you can't see that all you are doing is protecting the top 1 percent now, you really are nothing but a sheep. Really, very sad for you and your children. Please open your eyes.

@Empress...

I agree...I don't like that he put that on the table either. Unless all of our representatives in Congress want to participate in the same Social Security fund and benefits plan...and thus live by the same Chained CPI restrictions on their retirement benefits (that currently cap out around $2,600/month, I believe), their consciences should lead them to leave Social Security out of any cuts or concessions. People worked for many years putting into Social Security, with a promise that it will be there for them. Anything other than increasing SS revenue to help it's solvency, should remain off the table.

WOW.... well said commonsense

Feisty.... YOUR AN IDIOT... go away

Says the person who doesn't know the difference between your and you're. At least you use caps to point out your ignorance.

Also, several periods don't replace a simple comma.

Hey Melvin-that needs to be said the Democrats as well. This isn't a one way street. BOTH parties are to blame for the shape our country has gotten. It's time BOTH PARTIES got off their collective rear-ends and did what they are paid to do for the good of the American people. Politics be hanged.

WOW, what a bunch of crap, common sense. And the GOP sheep 'BhAAAAAAAAA" as instructed by the top 1 percent.

LET GO GOP, AND GIVE 98 PERCENT WHAT IT NEEDS... trifle that it is. Jesus. STOP HOLDING AMERICA HOSTAGE!!!!

Smal busownerin NY;

You wouldn't know it from the whining and entitlement comments on this board. I'm not worried about, I will survive, always have, without government handouts, thank you very much. I had the advantage of and listened to a father who lived through the depression. I learned early on you can't spend you way OUT of debt, and there is no such thing as a free lunch, (unless your a politician) something clearly lost on the morons in D.C., ALL of them.

As a side note, Empress, at what point did S.S. cost of living increases keep pace with real inflation? Get the facts instead of relying on those who lie to you every time they're mouth opens.

Hell, I should be thanking the left for their idiocy, that last four years have been the best my businesses have ever seen, even surpassing those of the Clinton "ban everything" era. Unlike those who seem to think a college degree should get them the CEO slot, I knew I would have to build my businesses from the ground up. And no I didn't take out a single government loan or grant to do it. Clearly this tax increase looming on new years day will have to be adjusted for, but I lived through Clintonian tax era in a quite profitable fashion. It will mean the customer will pay more, it always does. As business taxes increase, so do the prices of all consumer goods, accounting 101.

Will it hurt big ticket sales?, you know it will. But then, so does uncontrolled spending and ballooning national debt. I've heard nothing in any of the proposals that address any of the larger items that need to be worked out. Left, right, matters not, NONE of them have the stones to make the unpopular choices it will take to bring all this under control. Instead our great grand children will be paying for their ineptitude, cowardice, greed and blind adherence to ideology.

Says the person who doesn't know the difference between your and you're. At least you use caps to point out your ignorance.

Also, several periods don't replace a simple comma.

Look past the grammar and look at the comment, this isn't English class it's a discussion board. Everything said still stands.

The Fiscal Cliff: WIN WIN

S T O C K - M A R K E T - E N I M A

Most Mom & Pop Investors lose tons of money, if not all of it, before they understand the words of Ben Bernanke, the Mister Playwright.

The stock market was following a predetermined rise for several years of FED Quantitative Easing (QE) before the plot on how to trigger a correction was introduced by Ben Bernanke in late February 2012. It was then, when Mr. Bernanke first uttered the phrase "Fiscal Cliff".

Savvy Big Money was tipped by the words "Fiscal Cliff', on the breadth of how to invest Long, before the High Frequency Trading computers could no longer exact their toll on new money. Some old market wisdom states that HFT brings no value to the market, it only drains it.

It is the belief of Mom & Pop, that the market will go over the Fiscal Cliff as suggested, so that sidelined funds will get the opportunity, to come in for the next leg up. We expect the DOW to retest a low that can be seen in the DJIA CHART.

WE NOW RETURN YOU TO THE POLITICAL SUBPLOT...

ALL READY IN PROGRESS>>>

MARKET MELTDOWN WIN WIN: GOP campaigns on lowering taxes. DNC campaigns against partisanship.

NYMike - yours is standard GOP practice. you have NOTHING to say here that can possibly be defended so you attack someone else without any argumentative merit whatsoever.

Really, who's the greater fool? Someone who misplaces a grammatical element or the clown who ignores the subject matter???

Nicodemus1946 -

Your personal ARROGANCE sickens me almost as much as your ignorance. I own my own business. I have NO debt and my net worth exceeds a million... Something you'll NEVER understand - this is about the general economy and not individual give or take! The middle class is dying and the rich are only getting richer. Resources are finite and growth will not turn things around anytime soon. Who'll be around to buy anything if supply-side politic is left standing???

So here is the deal - I read someone's question regarding whether or not the people who are arguing this so called cliff have social security benefits or not? They do not. What we fail to realize is that the hold up is because most of the people crying foul to the suggestion of people who make over $250k do make that much money. However, that is not all, they don't have to worry about social security benefits, welfare, or anyother government sponsored programs, because THEY ARE sponsored by the government even after they no longer hold office. Former Presidents, Congressman and Senators and their families are all supported by the government even after their terms are up. So what do they give a care about the rest of us?

No Feisty, You lack the longevity to see them for what the ALL truly are, lying, cheating, stealing con men. These are the same people who had the gall to put Bernie Madoff in prison for running a Ponzi scheme, really? They preside over the largest Ponzi scheme the world has ever known or is likely to ever know.

If Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, then so is having children. And that's worked OK for hundreds of thousands of years now, so if it is a Ponzi scheme, then it's in no danger of collapsing any time in the next few millenia. All Social Security does is formalize the relationship.

The fact that you are trying to equate the two, and the general language you use of trying to equate Bernie Madoff and Barack Obama basically leaves you with no credibility. Unfortunately, this is pretty much the current mindset of the average Republican supporter.

Is it just me or does everyone else realize the first couple of Posts by Fiesty and her minions are nothing more than Pro Obama, anti Republican propaganda without any substance?

It's just you.

StoptheliesNOW;

Clearly you haven't done a seconds research on the leftist saviors you parrot. It might interest you to know that as many on the left are in the top 1% as the right. Bill Gates is not poor, neither is Warren Buffet, and a host of other stellar leftists. There's blame enough to go around, including that man of the people in the white house, he isn't exactly living hand to mouth either. Check his tax return from 2011 and see if you think his 13.5% tax on $3.9 million adds up to what he expects us to pay. Left or Right, they have only one thing in common, "If they're mouth is moving, they ARE lying to you". He expects everyone to pay more, but he will be exempt, you can count on that. Just as the house and senate "opted out" of Obamacare in favor of their all inclusive free for life health care plan. Again both sides, made it the law of the land, except for them, of course.

Nicodemus1946 -- If you start with the 2011 spending cuts in the continuing resolution -- without any increase in revenue -- and considering it included a boost in defense funding...

And then consider the increase in deficits thanks to the Teapublican debt ceiling debacle...

And read this article "Boehner Outlines Demands on Debt Limit Fight" (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/10/us/politics/10boehner.html?_r=0) and see how his position hasn't budged one iota from where he was before the 2012 election shellacking...

Then you can restart you diatribe.

The rich in Hollywood and Silicon Valley support higher taxes, but not the rich on Wall Street and in Big Oil. Or as the president always says, he is rich. But not Romney rich. Are you not able to distinguish between these things? Or like other rightwingers, do you see everything in a simplistic black-and-white way?

Nicodemus1946 -- Clearly you haven't done a seconds research on the leftist saviors you parrot. It might interest you to know that as many on the left are in the top 1% as the right

clearly, someone can't construct a rational or fact based argument. i always stop reading when the first sentence is flat out WRONG - the wealthy overwhelmingly vote GOP. however, this has little to do with the argumentative basis in debate here as anyone with an education will tell you...

GOP, who are these people and how are they able to spell their own name when they are clearly so stupid? LOL

It is very obvious that feisty is NOT a business person here in the real world. What you seem to be failing to understand is that the Repubs don't need to make any deal right now to the Dems. They can wait until January if they want while they hold out for a better deal. That's what any good business person would do. This is what negotiating is all about. The Repubs are not going to move on the rich and Dems are not moving on SSI. Either way, neither will effect the national debt on bringing it down. Getting a few bucks more from the rich will not help the middle class people, and chained CPI only hurts the seniors who have earned their entitlement. Waiting until January for the new elected group to come in with new fresh ideas would be a better gamble then to rush to bad decissions now. By the way, if you think the cliff taxes are a big deal now, you haven't seen anything yet because you won't feel the pinch until 2014 when you file. Thats when you can expect Obama care to be in full effect and thats a tax in itself. So let these fool's drive this three wheeled junkpile off the cliff and let's see who's really going to be holding the bag when the next great depression starts.

The GOP is really impotent now under the leadership of Speaker Boner and McChicken.

Byron Raum -- Rightwingers love pyramid schemes like Amway so go figure, but a better example is not Bernie Maddoff, rather insurance premiums. Here's an interesting fact... The rich live a lot longer, because they live the good life. The working class, especially those who do manual labor, die young so don't collect very many years of Social Security (if at all). This means the working class are the ones paying premiums but never filing a claim.

Byron;

Unlike you, I remember when your social security number was your S.S."ACCOUNT" number. NOT a tax payer I.D. number as it is now. It was totally volunteer system and NOT supported by tax money. These accounts were also interest bearing at the prime rate. If you paid into it at the max, 6% and your employer "matched" it to say 3% over a thirty year working life, retiree's had no problem getting along. As only those who paid into the system could draw from it. Sound like the "privatizing" proposal of a few years ago?, go figure. Funny how FDR set it up that way and it was always flush with cash until later day liberal "borrowed" it into oblivion. Enter LBJ, the great borrower of social security funds to pay for his social programs. Realizing the money for retiree's was being depleted, HE and his liberal cronies converted it to a tax. Since it was now a tax every working person HAD to pay, everyone was then "entitled" to draw from it, it became a social program no different than welfare.

Government spending depends upon more and more people paying taxes to pay for more and more government spending, exactly the same premiss as any Ponzi scheme. Socialism is the great example of a Ponzi scheme, trouble is, you run out of other peoples money to steal eventually. So the comparison is a fair one and completely true, LBJ and company STOLE S.S. money that was not tax money to use for social programs. None faces charges for this grandest of thefts. Madoff went to prison for his crimes, I've yet to see any national politician to be held accountable for their crimes from either side of the aisle.

speakthetruth-2459907

It is very obvious that feisty is NOT a business person here in the real world. What you seem to be failing to understand is that the Repubs don't need to make any deal right now to the Dems. They can wait until January if they want while they hold out for a better deal.

As long as you -- and more importantly America -- understands WHO'S interest the GOP are advocating! Which you clearly do! And which to polls show America clearly does...

The wants of the top 1 percent over the needs of everyone else!

Not a very smart business, political, or any other kind of decision if you ask me. Short-term thinking at best. Moronic at worst.

:)

Miss Piggy, Fire Crotch,

Where is your Messiah now? Where is Obama?

Delegating to others and giving up on discussions(after a vacation taken during talks). What a sorry excuse for a "leader".

I'm curious, Beverly: why did you address your reply to me? None of those excerpts are mine -- I was responding to them :)

T-Rex: Obama came back to D.C. on the 26th. Boehner and his cronies are only coming back tonight. If you support Republicans, you're in absolutely no position to chastise Obama for vacationing during the talks.

What Pres. Obama has done is moving to the center, but what the Republicans want is for the DEMs to totally surrender to the GOP position which was already roundly rejected by the voters...only last month!!!!

.

Why? The GOP is on a course toward total self-destruction. Majority of voters have already said they are going to blame the GOP for going over the cliff.

It boggles the minds why the right wing lemmings continue to support their ReTHUGlican elected officials, who are a WASTE of SPACE, USELESS, CALLOUS lackeys of the 1 percenters. Majority of you right wing trolls here and teabaggers are nowhere near the uber wealthy's level. YOU will suffer the consequences of the unpatriotic antics of your Party of NO.

Obama/Biden were re-elected for a reason, and by golly Democrat officials better not let the GREEDY OBSTRUCTIONIST PARTY get in the way this time. IF we fell off the FISCAL CLIFF - so be it! The teabags ans all these hardcore Repugs are going to suffer the same fate! Yep, we are all in this together.

I think starting 15 days prior to a budget deadline, all Congressmen should begin being fined $100,000 a day for each day that passes and no budget is produced. Let's see if the loss of $1.5 million out of their own pockets sets a fire under their asses to do their jobs.

All of us who work for a living doing real jobs and not la la land jobs like those in Washington are penalized if we fail to perform, they should be too!

So the Republicans want to take money from the poor and middle class while they are fighting to protect the incomes of the wealthy - why doesn't everyone who makes $70,000 or less just give half of our pay checks to the top 1% income earners of the US, would they be happy with that?!

Just remember Fiesty and friends that when you point that finger there are three pointing at you. Enjoy the cliff and when the taxes go up for Obama care enjoy more of your money going out the door also. You bitch about SS taking a hit have you ever talked to anyone on SS?? they will tell you most of what they get is ate up by other government expenditures like Medicare . So what they get is maybe a couple of $. I would think also you would be happy about the Cliff as it was Bush who put the tax cuts into effect and I do believe he is a republican.

T-REX-847863 - I'm not trying to be mean here but it's people like you who are responsible for the problems we face as a country. All you are doing is repeating Faux News talking points - and total hypocrisy at that (as ATM points out).

Why won't you open you mind and start gettign informed? For instance, are you aware of ANY of the following. I promise, almost all of this is outside the boundaries of subjectivce option and simply flat FACT.

YOU'LL NEVER HEAR ON FOX NEWS:
FACT: Roger Ailes is president of
Fox News Channel, chairman of the Fox Television Stations Group. Ailes was a
media consultant for Republican presidents Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and
George H. W. Bush.

JOBS -- Under Obama, 4.5 Million
private sector jobs have been created in just the past 3 years - this after Bush
losing 750K per month at the end of his term. Labor Force
Statistics from the Current Population Survey (Source: BLS Rpt.
LNU02000000)

GOP MISLEAD WITH:
"LESS PEOPLE WORKING NOW THAN 2009" - These job losses occurred during Obama's
first year. It took time to turn things around after Bush's 750K jobs lost per
month. If you read the graph at bottom you can clearly see that under Obama job
losses were turned around.

DEBT - - per Congressional Budget
Office -- BUSH LEFT Obama $1.2 Trillion DEFICIT, and 3 Trillion in DEBT
projected into Obama's term. Add to this the worst economic crisis in 80
years. GOP 2006 Senate, 49/49/2. Who's to blame for our
debt?

STOCK MARKET- Under Bush, DOW closed at around 8000. Under
Obama, we're now at 13000! Obama's policies have benefited "ALL our retirements
and 401K" with stock market recovery!

ECONOMIC GROWTH - Positive Growth
now AFTER BEING HANDED Negative by Bush.

TARP - with the threat of
further regulation, most of TARP has been paid back w/ interest! Under Bush,
this $$$ was loaned unconditionally amounting to corporate
welfare.

TAXES, taxes are lower for all but the richest, despite GOP
obstruction! GOP recently fought tooth-and-nail to increase the burden on the
middle class via the payroll tax. Thank You Mr. Obama. Furthermore, Tax Policy
Center -- taking a close look at Romney's proposed tax and economic plan ---
concluded that it would cut taxes for the richest Americans and actually raise
them on the poor.

OBAMACARE: Nixon, McCain, Romney and Gingrich, all FOR
mandate before they were against it! Romney implemented the ORIGINAL Obamacare
and mandate was originally a GOP idea!

TERRORISM - under Obama's
leadership and renewed focus he promised during the 2008 election - we got
Bin!!!

Just remember Fiesty and friends that when you point that finger there are three pointing at you. Enjoy the cliff and when the taxes go up for Obama care enjoy more of your money going out the door also. You bitch about SS taking a hit have you ever talked to anyone on SS?? they will tell you most of what they get is ate up by other government expenditures like Medicare . So what they get is maybe a couple of $. I would think also you would be happy about the Cliff as it was Bush who put the tax cuts into effect and I do believe he is a republican.

So nice to hear a Republican being honest about their motives. They WANT America to fail because THEY have failed. The most substantive sentence here is the last and even there it is totally out of context.... I do believe the wealthy benefited much greater than he middle-class and I do believe that we are talking about macroeconomic issues in the "here and now." But people like this do not care. They are too ignorant and too filled with hate. Enjoying being YOU. lol.

I have been retired since February 2010. This is the first increase in social security since then. Have you heard me whine about it?

No, you haven't because it should not be attached to anything that automatically increases it. The same is true for minimum wage and employees of the government's wages, including the president and congressmen. Any increases should be voted on by whichever congress is current. They made them automatic, so that they won't be held accountable. Have you noticed that they do not want to be held accountable for anything, especially the progressive liberals.

When you automatically increase these things, you automatically cause us to be less competitive in the world's market, with no advantage to us, monetarily, because inflation eats up the imaginary gains.

if hitting the cliff gets rid of the pigs at the trough im all for it full speed ahead. balance the damn budget and dont raise the debt ceiling!

Sounds like the Dems have slammed the door on the Presidents offer to use the chained CPI. I guess the President has no more influence over the radical Dems than the Speaker has over the Tea Party Republicans!

@IWonder - But Congress only gets a measly $5400 pay raise each year!

Appear to me that the GOP Tea Party / Libertarians and ultra-conservative owners and operators of businesses and corporations in this country, want to be the only recipients of help from the government, at the same time they rationalize and lobby for continual cutbacks and/or denial of those essential public services and safety nets to everyone else in this country.

Now why is that?

Commonsense, you have none, you vote your shot to the foot every single time. The repubs offer nothing and are willing to push Grandma and Grandma off of the cliff in order to save the very richest in the land a few bucks. Vote for that and see a shrink about your self destructive behavior.

Hey roy. good to see your post. I was afraid that you would lose interest, once you left this titanic. Keep on posting. I'll bet it's funnier when you're not on board!

Hey, anybody remember this quote from Mitch McConnell:

“I think some of our members may have thought the default issue was a hostage you might take a chance at shooting,” he said. “Most of us didn’t think that. What we did learn is this — it’s a hostage that’s worth ransoming. And it focuses the Congress on something that must be done.”

Proof positive that all the smirking jackasses on the right (GOP) want is to destroy the security and empowerment of the working class by ransoming short-term benefits in exchange for long term destruction of earned benefits programs. They don't give a damn who the hell they gore,....as long as it ain't rich people.

Don't fall for it Mr. President. Wait for the automatic sequestration, defense cuts, then use your CIC authority to redeploy our troops back stateside to cover a potential Afghan counter-attack (smirks up sleeve).

Wait'll the defense firms and Pubbie heads start exploding. Tee Hee. All you gotta do is sit and wait,.......and enjoy the show.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., expressed bewilderment at the breakdown, suggesting that there were more than enough votes for a compromise measure that didn't include chained CPI.

"I don't know what caused this ... butt... there's 80 senators who will do that without CPI."

So inside the GOP party itself, there is so much division. Last week, the GOP-controlled House of Scrooges refused to support Boner - their own House Speaker. Today, Mitch McChicken refused to work with majority of GOP senators.

The GOP has collectively gone mad. It's self-destruction

Empress

it means that the retirees checks do not keep pace with the real inflation

It does not have to mean this. The current method of COLA is increasing the checks beyond the inflation rate. it is using one system one year and another the next, whichever gives the better boost in benefits. Using the correct CPI geared specifically to senior citizens needs/lifestyles and not floating to which system is the most favorable would be a reasonble change to make and pay the correct amount instead.

Ken-848629

The democrats would like nothing better than an across the board tax increase on all wage earners, to put us back to the Clinton era tax rates. Gop wants the taxes held where they are until the economy improves, and they are the problem?

SmBusOwnerinNY -- I laughed at this too. But my first thought was, where do folks get their information and how do they draw such twisted conclusions?

Ken, the Dems and the President have made if clear, time and again, that they want to keep the low tax rates for the 98% earning incomes of less than $250K because it is the middle class who has not prospered for the last 30-40 years. In fact, the president's proposal would allow EVERYONE to keep the Bush tax cuts on their first $250K of income earned -- In other words, the Dems are advocating a permanent tax cut!

The Teapublicans, on the other hand want to make all the Bush tax cuts permanent for all income, and they want to do so by cutting programs for the working class and poor. You know, like unemployment insurance, food stamps, and of course trust fund programs like Social Security and Medicare. If they gave a sh!t about not hurting the economy, why would they attack the middle class in these ways? In reality, these cuts only shift costs elsewhere and most importantly nothing they propose does a damn thing to reduce deficits.

Here's a good example of corporate welfare, and getting back to Walmart. The taxpayers subsidize Walmart by providing programs like food stamps to Walmart employees because Walmart pays them poverty-level pay. (Save by shopping at Costco and stop giving your money to the Walton family.)And this in turn brings us to the topic of indexing anything to inflation -- Most notably the minimum wage.

People, if I have to pull out Glenn Beck's chalkboard to connect the dots for you... Republicans are notorious for many things, one of which is the bait and switch.

It was the Republicans who negotiated tax credits for the middle class and working poor like mortgage interest and the child tax credits. They came up with these tax credits in lieu of indexing the minimum wage to inflation (which would make the minimum wage around $11/hour right now). Then after time has passed and Americans can't remember what was done, they propose to end both the tax credits and minimum wage. See how it works?

Another great example and more recent one was the 2001 Bush tax cuts. Republicans passed these under the guise of cutting everyone's federal income tax rates. But the truth is these tax benefited the richest 2% far more than the 98%. The real kicker was the follow-up Bush tax cuts in 2003 on capital gains, dividends, etc. that only benefits the richest 2%.

Come on people, who do you believe supports the middle class, the Republicans or the Democrats? Who do you believe supports trust fund programs like Social Security and Medicare, the Republicans or Democrats?

The Republicans are always the ones responsible for deficit spending on things like the military industrial complex, bailing out Wall Street, and subsidizing Big Oil. And when it comes time to pay the piper (per Reagan, Bush Sr., etc.) they will raise your damn taxes -- you the middle and working class -- Get a damn clue.

I wonder if someone like Mitt Romney would be the millionaire he is if there was no welfare which his father collected and helped to boost him out of poverty. I wonder if Mitt Romney's father would have become friends with the Marriott family if he remained a poor man and if Mitt would have still become a CEO of Marriott. Yep, I find it highly unlikely. So it is interesting how the Republicans find it so easy to take from programs like welfare and Social Security while they protect tax breaks for the wealthy!

Stopthelies....

They won't listen, their brains are constipated because they have a great big Grover, Boehner, McConnell, Ryan, Cantor, Rush, Beck, Hannity, Fox News, etc. stuck up their colons, so let's go over the cliff, and yes, my wife and I will pay more in taxes, but not as much as the wealthy friends of the Tea Party, so I am willing to make that trade knowing that. Besides, if this really gets the deficit down, I'm okay with it, we all sacrifice for a while, get the deficit down to a manageable number, and then go on from there, is that all so bad? Of course, this will probably negatively impact the NRA's plan for funding armed guards in our schools, but perhaps the NRA's own members can volunteer for that, I would pay to see LaPierre in an inner city Chicago public school confronting an intruder armed with an AR-15 loaded with a 30-round magazine..

Day after day a certain individual's comment miraculously appears as the first posted comment. In an unrigged world this would be near impossible and about as likely as sitting with template open to check in online for an airline boarding position on SWAir, only to find that you were two nanoseconds into checking time and yet already the 59th person to board. Central propagandists and censorship in what passes as news these days are disturbing sides of the same coin. When will real and uncompensated Americans get an equal chance to have their say, and in the order of actual posting, rather than this jimmyrigged and biased system? I'm thinking never. This is sad. Wow the America we grew up in is certainly long gone and in its place only this Kafkaesque Amerika remains. Real Americans are simply shut out of having any voice in this out of control central machinery. Amerika was driven over the edge of this so-called cliff the day that a certain dipstick got the keys to the car four years ago and had already spent more in two and a half years than all the prior Presidents combined had spent in two hundred years. This month we've seen the central drama kings and queens on both sides of the aisle and in our symbol house show much ego but little common sense because at the end of the day they secretly want the tax cuts to expire and the seqestration to take place, especially junior with the keys to the car. No where in this political theatre are the actual best interests of everyday Americans even a top consideration. We all knew this central drama is just the latest garbage from a totally dysfunctional central apparatus. Thank goodness this is a divided government and many states have better quality people at the state level than we have at the federal level. Hopefully the states' leaders can find a way to minimize the damage that the central dipstick and the duo-aisle drama-players are doing with their dysfunction inside the Beltway. America's global reputation is sinking fast and it is every anti-leader inside the Beltway from both major parties who is to blame.

"we all ignore the first couple of posts anymore...."

He said, after 'ignoring' the first post, 27 minutes into the thread.....

Biden? HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

What the F'k is he gonna do? I see another 4 more years of misery for this country........ hey, all the terrorists need to do now is sit back an watch this country fall apart.

You can all thank the buffoons that you put in there ..... good luck!

StopTheLiesNOW

Thank you for your input, I believe you have good intent it is just hard to see the whole picture with those big blinders on. The only sheep are you and your fellow liberals who only follow blindly the imperial leader of the liberal cause Obama. You blame Fox news for all the ills of our country which shows the extent of your illogical illusion. If I recall the Dem dominated Congress took nearly two years to pass health care, you say Republicans at fault, now an agreed upon fiscal cliff to end Republican tax breaks is the dominating cry of the Dems, yet it is not the tax cuts the Dems want, it is the tax raise. Even in the event they get it, it will not go to the middle class as you preach, it will go towards funding more Dem projects. So with that in mind I would have to conclude your cause is neither to support the middle class nor the taxpayer but your illustrious leader and the revenge of the Dems over the Repubs. Neither is in the best interests of the nation but in the liberal terror machine that has been built over the last thirty years. You think you take the high road but you only position yourself to attack in your own interests. Surely Fox news does not even know who you are so how do they attack you.

The only thing I would caution against, David, is I think this notion of, "Well, both sides are just kind of unwilling to cooperate." And that's just not true. I mean if you look at the facts, what you have is a situation here where the Democratic Party, warts and all, and certainly me, warts and all, have consistently done our best to try to put country first.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

WHAT A PILE OF $HIT!

Go away statist. Your lies are done here Barrack. How have you put country first when for 4 long years we've been told how focused you are, "like a laser", on the economy and jobs and nothing has improved.

For the first 2 years you were preoccupied with your Keynesian nonsense and then you began your assault on nationalizing health care, 2 auto companies (one which was sold to Italy, another still owes us more than $34 billion) and the financial sector.

Then you began your statist promotion of class warfare and envy of the successful and producers. You have demanded that the best Americans can become is middle-class.

We real Americans reject your convoluted restriction on American exceptionalism. You can blather your nonsense to your useful idiots that don't know any better because they have no shame or ambition.

You can claim your mythical "mandate", we refuse it.

Real Americans will never submit to your social and economic justice nonsense for the collective. We know America can be much better than that.

"...Blah blah drama drama blah blah..I have a feeling that the world will continue to spin even after the dreaded cliff we're all diving over come the first of the year..."

But you DON'T understand! "feisty" got to post FIRST again!!! Woe is we!

"....and yes, my wife and I will pay more in taxes, but not as much as the wealthy friends of the Tea Party, so I am willing to make that trade knowing that. Besides, if this really gets the deficit down, I'm okay with it,..."

AMEN, Wil. A-Freaking-MEN.

"Biden? HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

Yes- I see your point. God, how better off we would be if Joe were Sarah right now!

(how's that go again...." HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"??

Ah, yes, I thought so.

Nothing - Just More Obama Drama

What's Obama's and Harry's excuse for knowing the Bush tax cuts were scheduled to expire in 2013 and not doing something sooner?

They're the deceivers - Taxes for Everyone!

History will show the Obama Legacy to be sumed up in one phrase "It was not my fault"

Pathetic and sad

Don't worry there Drive-By, Joe will be busy with the gun control bullsh!t Obammie delegated him to do, I'm sure he'll do a fine, fine job as always .......... You and I both know that nothing will get done there either.

So, how does it go? BOO-YAH! Say it anyway you want, it's another 4 more years of nott'a f'kin' thing but bullsh!t!

rocky-2318920

...Enjoy the cliff and when the taxes go up for Obama care enjoy more of your money going out the door also...

Sweet Jebus, I keep seeing this BS posted by rightwingers repeatedly. Prove it! No, you can't just parrot this rightwing lie -- You have to provide facts, data, statistics to support it.

The truth is you and your ilk don't have a clue how Obamacare is being funded, or how in fact it will help small businesses, or how it helps reduce the deficit, not to mention making health more accessible to more people. You should all be so humiliated and embarrassed for posting this drivel.

I can't wait until the fiscal curb and debt ceiling are behind us, and the new congress ends the GOP/TP obstruction by putting rules back in place for the filibuster (just to start with), and then with uncertainty removed, the economy will continue to improve at a faster pace. Already unemployment claims are going down, which means employers will have to start offering better pay and benefits, which will create more demand, which will create more jobs... And if they don't, we will see more strikes and labor organizing.

And most of all, I can't wait until 2014 when Obamacare goes into full force. Even now no more discrimination for preexisting conditions, and insurance companies having to refund 80% of premiums not used for actual health care is going to mean a lot to many citizens out there.

And all this, my fellow Americans, is why Teapublicans in Washington are soiling themselves. Prepare to meet the voters in 2014...

"...your cause is neither to support the middle class nor the taxpayer but your illustrious leader..."

Mmmm Hmm. And what's in it for us fellow citizens and residents of this country and it's economy?? How would supporting'our 'illustrious' leader NOT be a vote to support the middle class, exactly?

And for the 'class warfare' post- No, we don't get that. Neither do we get why, exactly, the wealthy have waged it against the majority of the country. We didn't get it when St. Reagan declared it, nor to we get it now.

Compassion seems sadly lacking these days in the halls of congress. Failure to act will result in 2 million people loosing un-employment benefits immediately. This is the cliff and will affect a small percentage of people but many will die.

Taxes, an apparent sticking point in negotiations, will go up for everyone. But this is a slope. Merle Haggard refered to it, and us as the snowball rolling down that hill heading for Hell. EVERYTHING will become more expensive and more will die .

Death and taxes, the two certaintees of life, political and idealogical persuasions notwithstanding.

Ken-848629

The democrats would like nothing better than an across the board tax increase on all wage earners, to put us back to the Clinton era tax rates. Gop wants the taxes held where they are until the economy improves, and they are the problem?

Well, most Democrats are proposing to keep rates the same for most Americans (those that don't want to keep the low rates until the economy improves, like myself). Secondly, the GOP doesn't want to keep the taxes rates constant until the economy improves; they want to keep the tax rates low for a few years and then CUT taxes the next time they get the White House and at least one-half of Congress. At best they want to extend the tax cuts permanently.

This is all a bunch of bull@!$%#; we could have had a deal a few weeks ago had Boehner not balked forcing a tax hike down his childish caucus' throat. Democrats would have lost a lot of stuff and received barely anything, but even then the GOP couldn't agree on that.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are at the precipice of the fiscal cliff, waiting to see whether our congressmen and women have any sense of maturity whatsoever. A simple solution is out there; everybody knows what could be done; everybody knows what should be done; they just can't do it for political reasons. Just let the top-end tax rates increase right now and let the rest of the rates remain low until 2014 or 15; modify the sequester to focus on defense cuts yet decrease the amount and potential damage; raise the payroll tax cap and chain CPI formula for SS; reform Medigap insurance, raise the Medicare payroll tax to 4.2%; increase Part B premiums to 35%; get a rebate from drug manufacturers; and bundle all Medicare provider payments by 2025. Simple as that. Unfortunately, our leaders cannot do achieve this crap thanks to the Tea Party, which dragged everybody to the right and turned the GOP into a far-right party that wouldn't ever compromise.

The Republicans aren't going to give in until they get to ream the middle class and the unemployed again but good! All that they care about is themselves and about stealing as much money from all the rest of us as they can. If Boehner and his friends like doing business in China so much why don't they just move there instead so that the rest of us can get back to the job of making this country great again?

Joe will be busy with the gun control bullsh!t"

Sometimes, I just don't find time to keep up. 'splain to me what gun control legislation is pending right now, and who sponsered it?

But you DON'T understand! "feisty" got to post FIRST again!!! Woe is we!

Hey Buzz,

I see the night shift third string trolls have arrived... ;o)

Bless their cold, black ♥'s, WHAT would we do for entertainment without them?

I can't believe I'm sayin this, but GO PACKERS! lol

Fiesty you are a pocket full of M-80's,keep up the fight.Happy NEW YEAR TO MY LIBERAL VINERS.Hopefully they get a deal done?

Old Timer-88224

The Republicans aren't going to give in until they get to ream the middle class again but good!"

Take comfort, OldTimer- in that they may never get the chance again.

See- the whole country was watching, and voted, during the last election cycle. And- the whole country spoke with a majority voice.

Shoot- why do you think all the righties are so PO'd- as their posts seem to confirm each day?

The President has proposed an extremely fair and non-partisan deal that even the Democrats in Congress are complaining about. Now the GOP needs to realize that any deal on spending and revenue needs to include some tax increases on the very wealthy. It is basically the only requirement for a negotiation. Most Americans cannot see a problem with the principle, though some extremists like the ones posting here do.

Lets go ahead and do it, or not.

I said this a few times before, I do not see a solution because our Congress is unable to negotiate for Americans. In my opinion, we will not have a deal. Some of us who hire employees for certain tasks do realize that some are unable to do their job, and need to be replaced.

ALL 50 states need to call for a constitutional convention and take matters into our own hands. That way we can solve our nations problems by the people,for the people, and of the people. NOT the lobbyists,billionaires,corporations and other special interests. Any decisions made CANNOT be vetoed nor overthrown. It is vividly clear that ALL of the clowns in Washington D.C. need to be ran out of town at gun point, never to return. I have met murderers and theives that have more morals and more common sense that those lowlife sonsofbitches and sluts in D.C.

"I can't believe I'm sayin this, but GO PACKERS! lol"

You one sick woman, 'Red'.

But you knew that.

Which is why I loves me some of that 'old maid' style stuff. (say, speakin' of style, isn't 'old style' some kind of "beer" up your way? and yes- the quote marks were intentional...)

Fiesty you are a pocket full of M-80's,keep up the fight.Happy NEW YEAR TO MY LIBERAL VINERS.

Mike,

Boom! lol

I hope 2013 brings you much joy, peace & laughter! We have much work to do still ahead in the coming years to eradicate the GNOP scum!

Ah thekahnkubla, the problem with ifs is that there is no real answer, no one knows whether Romney would have gotten rich, or not. My guess is that he would have.

The only rich man that I am personally acquainted with, made a fortune, while I worked for him, then lost all of it and then some, a few years later was rich again, then blew it all, now he is rich again and living in Nicaragua! Some people have the knack and the smarts, most do not.

A sociologist once said that if you took all the wealth in the world and divided it up equally among every person, that within two years, the previously rich would be rich, the middle class would be middle class and the poor would be poor. I suspect that the fellow is correct.

" I have met murderers and theives that have more morals and more common sense that those lowlife sonsofbitches and sluts in D.C...."

Hard to disagree with you. Do this: get out on the streets, mail, internet- whatever, and get some new blood elected. It's how our country and it's political system (still) works. Especially if your name is Koch or Adelson....

" no one knows whether Romney would have gotten rich, or not.."

ER, no one knows whether Romney woud have gotten rich-ER, or not.

Acually, that woudln't be a bad thing, depending on how he DID it....

You one sick woman, 'Red'

It's all part of my unique charm, Buzz! lol Why else would the right wing nitwits stalk my ankles looking for something to "hump"?

Which is why I loves me some of that 'old maid' style stuff. (say, speakin' of style, isn't 'old style' some kind of "beer" up your way? and yes- the quote marks were intentional...)

Speaking of "old maids"... have you gotten over your loss of JS1 & her "adams apple" & size 15EEE's?

I remember how much you enjoyed "poking" at her behind the malt shop? ;o)

mcbarker

Politically, this country is split down the middle...

There's a lot of fallacy going around.

First is the false equivalency of the two Parties. The Dems are not pure as the driven snow, but the Teapublicans are clearly to blame for premeditated obstruction (e.g., record abuse of the filibuster), hostage-taking, nearly defaulting on our debt causing the deficit to increase, etc. Stop with the equal blame BS as a way to excuse the rightwing.

...As well as throwing out all incumbents, as if bringing in a bunch of inexperienced yahoos would make congress work better. Just get rid of gerrymandering to create safe seats, make Citizen's United contributions transparent, and put in place a federal standardized election process.

Just as with the Gilded Age of the Robber Barons and the more modern version of supply-side voodoo economics, the founding fathers tried states rights and it failed. What's with rightwingers and going backward?

This nation is NOT Right of center (how ever that is measured by rightwingers to begin with) and is not split 50/50. Aside from Republicans losing the popular vote in five (5) of the last six (6) elections, look at polls on topics such as the rich paying a fairer share in taxes -- Overwhelmingly a majority supports raising taxes on the richest 2%.

Demographics indicate the nation is at the real center (and possibly moving Left of that), so start getting used to it.

The reincarnated, ignorant, racist, Nativist, anti-American, Know-Nothing, Party of No is absolutely worthless...

Heck of a Job, pathetic Party of No.

YOU SAID IT MAN!!!!!........ wait ........ which party was that again?

Republicans have been asked to vote on 0.5 million plus. Already up from 0.4 million plus. Quite frankly, if I were a republican in congress, I would demand more, too. The democrats are repeatedly caving in. In 24+ hours they have increases on 0.25 million plus, complete with major spending cuts. They can then re-pass tax cuts on the middle class. Now this article says they've already waffled back to 0.5 million? They will hardly generate enough revenue to stop the rising debt. Not without crippling spending cuts, which shockingly, we hear almost nothing about because there isn't much at all to talk about in this "scaled down" plan. In other words, very little new taxes and almost zero in cuts. Republicans may be corrupt, protecting rich interests over country need, but democrats are spineless cowards. Even when they have all the leverage, they keep back pedaling begging for help!! Half a million? Really? Wow. Who to vote for in two years. Corruption or cowardice?

@IWonder - don't forget, it was Mitt Romney's father who made the millions, not Mitt. It's easy to turn millions of dollars into more millions, just ask Donald Trump who for years took a $20 million inheritance and kept it at $20 million until a dozen or so years later he finally got lucky. Had Mitt grown up poor, do you really think he would have become wealthy? Do you really think that the Marriott family would have become best friends with Mitt's father if he was a poor man, maybe working as a bell boy at one of their hotels and then hired Mitt as a CEO of their company? I do find that a bit hard to swallow.

Thank you for your input, I believe you have good intent it is just hard to see the whole picture with those big blinders on. The only sheep are you and your fellow liberals who only follow blindly the imperial leader of the liberal cause Obama. You blame Fox news for all the ills of our country which shows the extent of your illogical illusion. If I recall the Dem dominated Congress took nearly two years to pass health care, you say Republicans at fault, now an agreed upon fiscal cliff to end Republican tax breaks is the dominating cry of the Dems, yet it is not the tax cuts the Dems want, it is the tax raise. Even in the event they get it, it will not go to the middle class as you preach, it will go towards funding more Dem projects. So with that in mind I would have to conclude your cause is neither to support the middle class nor the taxpayer but your illustrious leader and the revenge of the Dems over the Repubs. Neither is in the best interests of the nation but in the liberal terror machine that has been built over the last thirty years. You think you take the high road but you only position yourself to attack in your own interests. Surely Fox news does not even know who you are so how do they attack you.

Was this meant to be taken seriously or simply to be preached high atop a soap box??? lol Thing is, no where here do you even begin to present a FACT. Just your opinion. Nothing more. Do you understand?

GOP, do you understand the difference between opinion and FACT? Here is where you must start, grasshopper. :)

lilirocks

Now the GOP needs to realize that any deal on spending and revenue needs to include some tax increases on the very wealthy.

Why?

Tell me how this will help on Jan. 1st 2013 and March 21st 2018 or any other random date?

What will it do to our Deficit? Our debt? What rate of growth will that be at? How will it impact unemployment?

On the Edge said:

Compassion seems sadly lacking these days in the halls of congress. Failure to act will result in 2 million people loosing un-employment benefits immediately. This is the cliff and will affect a small percentage of people but many will die.

Taxes, an apparent sticking point in negotiations, will go up for everyone. But this is a slope. Merle Haggard refered to it, and us as the snowball rolling down that hill heading for Hell. EVERYTHING will become more expensive and more will die .

Death and taxes, the two certaintees of life, political and idealogical persuasions notwithstanding.

I am glad you mentioned this. Hardly anyone mentions this. People will die. I guess in this day and age, it is not fashionable to bring this up. So many are just crunching numbers and not noticing the people behind the numbers. I guess it is sort of like the people who fire the triggers on the drones from a thousand or so miles away, feeling it is like a video game, something unreal; but there are actually people dying when that trigger is pulled. We live in a time when people cut off their emotions from their actions. Would the Republicans want to do this if the people who would die as a result of the cuts they wish to make were lined up in a row outside the capitol building, Boehner given an assault rifle and told to shoot the lineup of people to save money on the budget? I'd bet it would not be so easy if he had to have the blood on his hands personally.

Poor poor Fisty and the minions. Had to come out on a Sunday to defend their messiah. Bet the hangover wasn't quite gone yet and it had to hurt.

miss piggy you are wrong on the majority of voters blame repubs,i saw that poll and participated in it also,there are factors you do not consider at all with the numbers... i saw that ALL dems blamed repubs for going over the cliff...but here's the catch,i'm a repub and guess what i clicked on....NOT DEMS like a sheep following the pack,i checked ALL THE ABOVE..like a lot of other sensible people,so you are ultimately wrong,you see i know it is ALL the fools in office you follow the other sheep

The republicans in office now are nothing more than maggots. Now they are crying, they would have had passed a "milk deal" by now it they were allowed to cut food-stamps to poor people.

Why do republicans hate poor people so much? Aren't those the people who do all the work the republicans think they are too good to do, or too rich to do?

The first spending cut should be to all those in Congress, that would save us millions, cut their pay, health care, pensions, and yes all that free money they are given so their kids can go to college for free.

They can't do their job, they should not be paid.

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF YOU NOT BEING ABLE TO COMPROMISE, SO YOUR FIRED!!!

Why do you think Feisty Redhead is almost always the first to comment? Because he/she is paid commentator with an inside scoop to the newsvine. Sure makes sense now.

TheKhanKubla

Had Mitt grown up poor, do you really think he would have become wealthy?

This is the convoluted delusion about the rich bogeyman the Liberals/Progressives fear so much.

They feel that millionaires are just grown on some Conservative Farm in one of the fly-over states, injected with “Hate-The–Middle-Class” serum and then unleashed on the world to wreak havoc.

This is what happens when the Libbies allow themselves to be manipulated so easily all their life and become so complacent to success and ambition. This is the result of submissive parents, peers and educators who fear the government.

Yes, Mitt, “The Donald” and MOST other millionaires started out poor or middle class. But they understood that THEY had to do it. The government or Liberals won’t do it.

YOU DO BUILD THAT!

If you want a more comprehensive explanation of the wealthy I recommend you read “The Millionaire Next Door”. This was written by the (GULP!) New York Times.

It not only explains how the wealthy get that way they expose how they don’t expect the government to do everything for them.

It shows how the wealthy don’t just sit around all day and all of a sudden a few million dollars fall in their lap. They’re usually NOT lucky and there is no secret handshake you need to know to become rich.

Here is the link:

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/stanley-millionaire.html

Good luck and enjoy.

Moshulu asked:

Why do republicans hate poor people so much?

I wish I knew. I can only guess based on observation. Isn't it funny how the Republicans when it comes to choosing cuts pick the most painful ones. They would cut food stamps or COLA's, the types of things that would hurt the poorset people. These sort of cuts would not even gain much as far as reducing the deficit. They are only a few dollars per recipient, but to that person, it could make all the difference as to whether they can cover their barest needs. When taxing wealthier people, one can get more dollars (therefore actually affecting the deficit) without seriously hurting them. It would seem the desire to make the most painful cuts shows that the Republicans are more about being sadistic than practical. If one takes from a rich man, one wants the money. If one takes from a poor man, one wants death. Republicans resent the poor. They have negative feelings towards them as people. I have heard Republicans talk about poor people, and I can hear the venom in their voice. This whole fiscal cliff thing is not just about money but about who some people want off the planet. If they were truly worried about the deficit, they would curb America's excess. Why not end a few wars, close a few foreign bases. We could be less of the world's policeman. We could end a few subsidies to corporations. We could stop giving foreign aid to countries that hate us. There are a lot of cuts that could be made that do not hurt people, but I don't hear about them wanting to cut those. I think it is time we questioned their true motives.

I see the republican obstructionists are at it again. Guess what, guys? The majority of Americans support raising taxes on the wealthy and cutting defense spending. I thought you were elected to represent the American people, NOT Grover Norquist and Halliburton. Time to do what you're paid to do, learn the art of compromise and get to work, or you can bet the majority of Americans will vote you out in 2014.

TheKhanKubla

@IWonder - don't forget, it was Mitt Romney's father who made the millions, not Mitt. It's easy to turn millions of dollars into more millions, just ask Donald Trump who for years took a $20 million inheritance and kept it at $20 million until a dozen or so years later he finally got lucky. Had Mitt grown up poor, do you really think he would have become wealthy? Do you really think that the Marriott family would have become best friends with Mitt's father if he was a poor man, maybe working as a bell boy at one of their hotels and then hired Mitt as a CEO of their company? I do find that a bit hard to swallow.

Agreed, and the same can be said of many others such as Paul Ryan who collected Survivor Benefits while he went to college. But there is one caveat, which is that the Marriots are Mormon, and that is one reason Mitt's family has been friends with the Marriots (look up Son of Boss scandal). But poor Mormons do not hang out with the rich Mormons, so technically you are still right.

Another tidbit is that Mitt's grandfather and others who went to Mexico to practice polygamy received government assistance when they returned to the US -- An odd thing this break, along with deferments for missions, and that wonderful tax write-off Romney has used for charitable contributions to the LDS church. The Jehovah's Witnesses should be pissed. Anywho, this is why Reid knew Romney was paying less taxes than he claimed.

Let's just be very grateful we missed that bullet, a nasty hit on many levels that would have been...

SPense,

more specious logic

This is what happens when the Libbies allow themselves to be manipulated so easily all their life and become so complacent to success and ambition. This is the result of submissive parents, peers and educators who fear the government.

Submissive parents? Educators who fear government? Teachers are part of the government. It's you that fears government. And you have no reason to. Why are you afraid? 3% in taxes on somebody else? Even if it's you. That's nothing to fear. 3%? come on.

Yes, Mitt, “The Donald” and MOST other millionaires started out poor or middle class. But they understood that THEY had to do it. The government or Liberals won’t do it.

Mitt and Trump started out poor? ....right along with George W. Bush....right out of the poor house. Right.

BackHouse, re- post 1.1, "Aren't there millions of Republican's on unemployment"? As opposed to millions of Obama voters who were,are, and will remain on welfare? Who will not be affected by this financial nightmare because their votes have been bought and paid for. So,BackHouse, the Republican's should back anything the President proposes in order to stay on unemployment,right? The problem with that is unemployment runs out,welfare does not! People on unemployment had a job and were laid off,they paid a matched percentage along with their employer for the unemployment.If WE were all to quit working would be on your team? I just want to know?

America is on a downward spiral resulting from a continuation of policy failures and bad decisions, just like we are about to witness in the so-call "fiscal cliff." Obama and the Democrats will reign supreme once again under a failed leader that has the backing of the liberal media and most working people that are only concerned about lower taxes.

The Republican's attempt to curtail the spending, ensure the future of entitlements, protect small businesses and create new jobs will be offset with higher taxes on the rich which is the one AND ONLY goal of Obama. BTW, this will run the government for one week if approved.

One can only imagine what the next 4 years of this administration and the Democrates will bring to our struggling country, the people and the economy.

Empress, I agree with all three of your posts. You hit the nail on the head ranging from how the CPI eventually leads to homeless poor old people to why Republicans hate the poor. I will add just one more reason why Republicans and Obama wants to cut or make Social Security checks smaller and that is the disability people are on it. Obama and the Republicans know that the disabled do not have the "Mark of the beast" spoken of in Revelation Chapter 13 Vs 15 through 18.

http://youtu.be/mhqCFVKnorg

The above link shows a Christian made movie that went out in 1981 about how the people who are not all there in the head "nuts" do not have the "Mark" so in order to kill them the Republicans want to cut Social Security for filling the scripture saying that Both rich and poor free and slave are to receive a mark and those that do not have this mark are CAUSED to be killed. Note the word CAUSED that means put in a position that one can not survive. Cut the checks and people die CAUSING them to be killed. Notice this is not a direct killing like in usual dictatorships where people are lined up and shot into ditches. These people are CAUSED to be killed. This shows that the regime of the Beast is cowardly not wanting to take direct responsibility for their Murders. They want to put people in positions where they can not possibly survive and say they were not strong enough so they died. Boy what a shame knowing full well they CAUSED it. But God sees it as Murder just the same since it is in Revelation Chapter 13.

TruePatriot, Mitt Romney in 2011 paid the IRS 14% when it should have been 13% in taxes. The Romney's also contributed 30% to charity while Obama-Robinson ponied up 22%. If this is a lie,then the IRS should have no problem since Mitt's a$$ in in the air. If Harry Reid smell's a rat, maybe he should check his shoes! And,I'd rather take the bullet,TruePatriot, than endure this President's inability! Put that in your syringe and shoot it.

The problem of SS Disability is that folks start collecting it at a young age without paying into the system first. True, Social Security is not designed for this. We need a separate way to help those who can't help themselves, which is funded properly. And it needs to be only for those who truly can't help themselves (per private insurance criteria).

What do you think about people like Michele Bachmann who collected a shi!tload of government money being a foster parent? This is a racket in many ways too, but how to deal with it?

The issue with Welfare and forcing single mothers to work for poverty wages has had many unintended consequences, but the main complaint was women having more kids to keep collecting. What is the difference between this and the child tax credit that allows folks with a lot of children to pay zero income tax?

Good paying jobs are the main solution. When people have proper income, they don't need tax credits -- or having to subsidize douchebag companies like Walmart with food stamps because they are so crappy to their employees while the Waltons live in outrageous luxury.

fenderbluesjr

TruePatriot, Mitt Romney in 2011 paid the IRS 14% when it should have been 13% in taxes...

2011? Where is he proof of what Romney paid in the years before that? I'd say you're the one smoking crack.

TruePatriot, I would not like people like Michele Bachmann because people like her ruin things for the truly needy. As to who is on the disability roster. I know most of them are Veterans who suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. These people earned it by going to war for us. Another large part of recipients receive it after working years but something happens in their life to make them disabled like illness or snapping suddenly. The smallest number of them get it younger during child hood. These children usually get it because of something that happened during their childhood. Most of these people need it because what ever happened to them I would not want on my enemy never mind an innocent child in America. Only very low numbers would be cheats because the money given is so small it is not worth hustling for. There are better more profitable cons out there that if someone is on disability than they probably need it. I have met many people who are on it for one reason or another and I would NEVER want to be in their shoes. So I believe they really need it so I have Mercy on them.

How many times do I have to say RECALL VOTE before someone listens and takes action? RECALL EVERYONE!

Just as with the Gilded Age of the Robber Barons and the more modern version of supply-side voodoo economics, the founding fathers tried states rights and it failed. What's with rightwingers and going backward?

Actually, the founding fathers didn't really try with states rights' (unless you include the Articles of Confederation), at least not with historical clarity. The real states' rights experiment was the Confederacy during the Civil War; it failed miserably. And the right is naturally inclined to go backward; their entire philosophy (a mutation of traditional conservatism) is to take the country BACK to the early 20th century. Liberals like me and you only want to return to the 1950s, and only economically (strong middle class leads to stability; good ol' Aristotle, and even then we have to realize that blue-collar jobs have to become more skilled and are gonna be more competitive.

Romneys 14% tax statement came from HIS own words and published with HIS permission. READ people.

Our future is in the hands of fools.

IWonder,

The empty words of a sociologist mean nothing! All I know is that two years ago the top 5% owned 40% of the wealth, one year ago 42% and this past year 45%. Since they pay on average 14% income taxes and most of the middle class I know pays more, when will you be satisfied with creating a new Aristocracy? Will 50% be enough for you?

Since the Republicans won 54% of the House seats in the 2012 elections on their promise to cut spending and keep taxes low, I guess the 'Will of the people' must be to stand firm in their negotiations with Obama and the Democrats.

I contrast, Obama only got 51% of the vote - hardly a 'mandate' to have things his way.

Since the Republicans won 54% of the House seats in the 2012 elections on their promise to cut spending and keep taxes low, I guess the 'Will of the people' must be to stand firm in their negotiations with Obama and the Democrats.

What really amazing is they did it with over a million fewer popular votes than the Republicans got.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, this is just sad. I have to call you both on this one...

Roy Wilson

I could have sworn the GOP "---- LOST ---- seats in the house this time around/2012!

Swan (song)

I really could have sworn that Obama got 2.7 percent more of the popular vote than Romney!

WOW - I'm correct both times! And that makes the GOP WRONG on both counts above. Kind of pathetic, right?

:)

The empty words of a sociologist mean nothing!

This is what the monkey thinks when he places his hands over his ears... can't win an argument so just pretend it doesn't exist. LOL

What is left of a man when he no longer will listen to anything but his own views --- no matter how strong or irrefutable the argument?

I could have sworn the GOP "---- LOST ---- seats in the house this time around/2012!

Swan (song)

Actually it was a typo I meant to say Democrats (they are so similar I get confused sometimes). The Republicans won more seats with a million less votes than the Democrats. I personally think the districts should be drawn by a computer program that only takes population and geography into account.