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Subscribe to RSSAs others have pointed out, the so-called fiscal cliff maybe isn't the best metaphor to use in describing the current debate over the looming tax increases and spending cuts set to take place in the new year.
After all, when you jump off a cliff, you usually don't live to tell about it.
But that isn't necessarily the case in this debate. If tax rates go up and spending cuts go into effect after Dec. 31, Congress always has the ability to fix things retroactively at a later date.
Perhaps a better metaphor to use is the deadline for midterm paper -- you might fail your class or flunk out of school if you don't complete the paper on time, or you could successfully negotiate to turn it in a later date, or you could do other things to boost your grades and standing in school.
Another metaphor is the deadline for a collective-bargaining agreement in professional sports -- having the contract expire could mean the end to the football or hockey season, or the principals could eventually reach a deal (even if that means a shortened season).
So what happens -- and what doesn't -- if Congress, as it increasingly appears, fails to reach a fiscal deal before the new year?
On Christmas, the New York Times ran a good summary:
Some hits — like a two percentage point increase in payroll taxes and the end of unemployment benefits for more than two million jobless Americans — would be felt right away. But other effects, like tens of billions in automatic spending cuts, to include both military and other programs, would be spread out between now and the end of the 2013 fiscal year in September. These could quickly be reversed if a compromise is found.
Similarly, the expiration of Bush-era tax cuts on Jan. 1 would not have a major impact on consumers if Congress quickly agreed to extend them for all but the wealthiest Americans in early 2013, as is widely expected.
Other probable changes, like a jump in taxes on capital gains and dividends, would most likely be felt over a broader period rather than as an immediate blow to the economy.
So the world doesn't come to an end on Jan. 2 or Jan. 3. But the question will turn to: What does Congress and the Obama White House do to fix things and limit the damage?
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I say to republicans is going off the cliff worth saving your millionaire brothers there low taxes? I would think the answer is yes as you care little of anyone else and actually think of everyone else as low life scum- is that how you really feel??
It seems to me the BIGGEST point of contention is raising taxes on several hundred thousand individuals / families that make over "$'X'" per year. "$'X'" per year keeps changing; was $250K, now is $1M (I think). So, that affects about mebbe less than 1% of Americans- but the Senators & Representatives are likely (1) beholden to this 1%...biggest campaign contributors OR (2) they themselves are part of the 1%. What a conflict of interest! Apparently they care more about the 1% / themselves than they do about the rest of America. "Prayer Warrior" hit the nail on the head as to what SHOULD be done...but it will never happen for a variety of reasons. AMEN to "They are all puppets of Corporate America and 1 %'ers to boot. We must be all fools to think they would actually represent us the 99%." They are puppets, and us 99% are worthless to them except on election day, when we are expected to vote for them based on their most recent lies...
Actually, very little of this has to do with taxes. Nearly all of this on the republicans side has to do with the spending cuts.......the actual root of the problem.
We went over the fiscal cliff long ago, now just in free-fall. Soon there will be a sudden stop and all hell will break loose 4ward... FIRE! FIRE!! FIRE!!!
I would agree with that statement wholeheartedly Adler...
So in turn, should we expect the federal government to stay out of our business?
Or does the federal government have special dispensation, too involve it's self in our business?
Is there apparently some where in the Constitution or bill of rights that give the govt. the authority to force the people to enter into a contract with a private entity? I haven't found that part yet...
The ACA, so, penalty or tax? heh doesn't really matter 4ward right? that die is cast...
Sure glad we had to pass the bill, so we could retrospectively see what was in it, After it became Law... Thanks, former speaker Nancy P., Knew we could count on you for the arm twisting it took within your caucus, excellent representation... Hey, the ends justify the means 4ward right?
So folks, since were on the ACA topic again, and we are because the whole b/c issue which is brought to you by The Non-affordable healthy uncaring act concern or whatever???
How about that tax on medical devices? oh, wait, hmm, is a condom a medical device? How about a IUD?
don't really care, just curious NOT!
How do Many of you feel about the FACT, that this ACA is now going to cost the Government/ people nearly three times as much as it stands right now? And have any of you noticed just how much insurance premiums have gone up? I have noticed a great increase in the expense related to my businesses, oops! So, I've been forced to give a few haircuts, complete with separation paperwork "pink slips" especially too some superlibs whom, will no longer be in my employ as of 12-31-2012 SORRY Great day in the neighborhood rt,,,,???,,,,,,,,rt
Hey don't worry I hooked them up with severance, but no way to draw unemployment insurance so they won't reflect poorly for "EL Presbo" "you'd think they whould be sayin thankyou." " yer welcome!"
Next up: Expect Your gasoline prices to increase, your home heating/ac bill going up, food prices inflating ect. ect. ect. Also look 4ward too, Many, Many, company failures rising UN-employment. Did I mention Labor Union membership dwindling? Union leadership loosing their a$$es... heh that to will be a rising phenom... Grrrrrrrrrreat... LOL
To many folks, in the short term this will not be felt as an incursion on their lifestyle. Eventually as the piper's flute whistles past the USA bank there will be people running thru the streets, with their hair on fire. Just like in Greece, good thing though, that way they will have a way to ignite the wicks of those Molotov cocktails "unless there is a Obama phone app. for that by then. lol Good News, Heh... I shall be watching this Via satellite, hook up from international waters. So Good luck with that 4WARDERS...
Time will tell the tale.............btw Marlene-447284 is hot---------->
Get Used Too it...
What special interest groups and big contributors(hiding behind some name or other)eagerly "invested" in the last 3 elections(2008, 2010, and 2012) for Congress and President could have been better put towards paying off the national debt. But heck darn no. Since Clinton signed NAFTA and the big contributors called in their IOU's, more jobs have been offshored, taxpayers had to bail out the banks and anything else "too big to fail", and employers still here in the USA, have had to cut jobs, benefits and wages to stay afloat. The number of millionaires and billionaires has increased significantly and I'm sure they will all be living the high life in the Cayman Islands or some other islands far far away when the revolution starts. Either that or to be employed we that are presently employed will have to accept, a few dollars a day, 60 work hours a week minimum no benefits, and work in prefab buildings that could colapse and burn very easily, in order for those offshored jobs to come back here.
For America ...economic suicide
I have a HUNCH.....that BOENER.......DELIBERATELY.........want the country to "Go over the Cliff"....since he and the Republicans....LOST the last Presidential Elections...to OBAMA.......and he WANTS to DECLARE Vengeance against the Democrats.
He doesn't know it.....but HIS JOB.....may be "on line"......come NEXT CONGRESSIONAL Elections. People SEEM to REMEMBER....things like this.
So... FRANKLY.......HE DOESN'T CARE.
Obrainless must not care either, because he's done nothing in 4 years to get us rolling in another direction than right toward the cliff. You can put as many periods in there as you want, it doesn't make you smart, Ralphie.
your straw man argument is empty. How can Japan function and sell their debt so low with a debt to GNP of 250%
Your ideas have no MERIT.........
What happens if we go over the cliff?
Perhaps a better metaphor to use is the deadline for midterm paper -- you might fail your class or flunk out of school if you don't complete the paper on time, or you could successfully negotiate to turn it in a later date, or you could do other things to boost your grades and standing in school.
The can is getting really dented and worn soon it will hit the end of the road and no more kicking just the pain of austerity...
We went over the fiscal cliff long ago, now just in free-fall. Soon there will be a sudden stop and all hell will break loose 4ward... FIRE! FIRE!! FIRE!!!
The sooner the USA hits bottom the better, then the austerity can kick in and the real pain will start, however like the phoenix the rise will be phenomenal for the 2%
What happens if we go over the cliff?? We go back to the high taxes and bankrupt policies of the pre-George Bush era. Before the Democrats took over the congress in 2006.
So obviously the obamanites are all excited to negotiate honestly here.
back to Clinton and 23 million jobs created, How many republicans voted in 1993 for Clinton's economic plan-ZERO NONE because they said it will cause a RECESSION.
In 1992 Perot ran on the TeaJERK platform, made the same predictions as the TeaJerks. Two years ago the TeaJerks were yelling the dollar will be worthless.Last year they were screaming HYPERINFLATION is here.
You didnt have a clue in 1992 and still dont. Keep crying wolf
Demmie, if you use the anti Bush timetable that Obama is using that would mean EXACTLY that the Clinton Policies caused the recession. But I won't be mean. It was the democrat congress and Barney Frank's sub-prime mortgage fiasco that caused the recession.
In fact I think it is fair to say that in between blowjobs Clinton managed the prosperity quite well. He might have tried to reel in the up-spiral of housing prices, but who knew?? However, with Bush that prosperity held in nicely even though the Muslims started the war during those years...until the Democrats won control of both houses of congress in 2006 and held that until 2010. Those were the spiraling down years. and the last 4, of course.
Do you really credit the tea party for much? By now Obama has had 4 years, and the economy should be fixed right up. Do you think it is?
You keep using the "straw man argument" saw. I know what you mean, but isn't your yammering about the tea party just that? Commit yourself, fool: Did Obama run the last 4 years, or did the Tea Party run the last 4 years?
Whose man is straw, genius?
I for one am happy about the "Fiscal Cliff". We all as Americans are in line to have our taxes increase, as well we should. It is easy to stand back and scream that the other guy should pay more. We all are responsible for the fiscal mess, we have allowed the politicians to buy our votes with our tax dollars.
If everyone has "skin in the game" maybe we will all pay more attention when the over bloated hog government of ours bellows "Feed Me!"
Bring it on!
Yes, db yes, when we hit bottom, then the eagle can rise from the ashes too soar once again. Perhaps he will carry off a few of the bellowing swine while he is at it...
Oh what a mess we are in--and BOTH the Repubs and Demos have gotten us into the mess we are in today through decades of unwise choices. I think it is quite revealing that people in both parties voted for the Gramm Leach Bliley Act of 1999, which rescinded the Glass-Steagall Act which had been passed in the 1930's to PREVENT another depression like the Great Depression from happening. Our two party system is broken, which is why I voted for a third party. And unfortunately, I do not see a painless way out of this regardless of who's 'plan' gets adopted. I hope and pray I'm wrong about that, but I'm not counting on it. For my own life and family, I have a Plan A, a Plan B, and C, and D. But I also take life one day at a time, and one of the reasons I do, is just in case I have to come up with a Plan E.
BTW, I lost my job in 2008 due to severe cut backs. If it weren't for my wonderful soul-mate boy friend marrying me, I would have lost the house.
good idea ---- i agree totally about having multiple options prepared for yourself and/or your family.
Perhaps this is the push they need to get off the couch and go to work.
The question is "what will happen,if we go off the cliff?" Answer- "This country will be F--KED in the as-,by the republicans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Too late for that the Democrats have already put it up the American Publics ass with all the social welfare spending. 16.5 Trillion in debt and counting.
canon- we dont have a deficit problem- we have a JOBS problem. Solve that and 60% of the deficit DISAPPEARS.
name one country anywhere in the world that has used your reduce deficits first program where economic activity INCREASED? Name ONE........ You cant as NONE exist
No we can spend our way out of debt according to you idiots.
What happens if we go over the cliff?
Haven't you heard? The sky will fall!
Doom and gloom!!! What is the good thing about going over the so called financial cliff? reducing payroll taxes to S/medicare was dumb to start with why hurt an unhealthy (relatively) entitlement program that could be fixed and made sustainaqble with some sensible changes. Those changes are quite possiblel A little hurt, yes: a disaster>>>>>>>> far from it. How about doing a few more things like the "tax" on tires from china: yea it raised the price of tires but it also provided jobs to us citizens. And all the technology advances: fewer toll takers, fewer employees at airline ticket counters, fewer cashiers at the grocery stores, dadada. perhaps a look at technology and what impact that has on unemployment. and on and on. I say go over the cliff and begin to get our country in financial shape. I'll gladly pay my part. I believe Americans want to see out deficit/debt issue resolved. Ultimately that brings prices down. When is the last time you took your pet to the vet? Ridicules costs. And what about the jobs that woulod be created and the cost of energy if we were make the attempt to be energy independant. Such independance won't happen with wind and solar very soon! Coal, gas and north american oil.....get a bit less green for a while. The weather cyccle we are in is a natural event, though we might have accelerated. Tell me we dont have the technology to make coal burning clean. The whole energy independence effort would do wonders......to employment, our status in the world, etc. Look at the debt: add together the debt to social security and other intragovernment agencies, plus the debt to the good americans who buy bonds and funds with us bonds and whats keft is 1/3 of the debt. cum-on guys.......all these things work together. There seems not to be a holistic approach being proposed to allow the cliff to be a blessing. With 99 weeks of unemployment payments, most all could have gotten an associates degree in that period of time. Americans want to see the problems solved and I believe the cliff along with some wise decisions on energy and pumping some effort into education and energy independence plus a shot or two of import duties might asctually allow me to buy a shirt made in the US. does that cost a bit more.....sure, but it provides jobs, which develop tax dollars which one day will allow us to reduce taxes again. We need to start producing things again. Maybe a bond drive like in WW2 is in order to replace the need for foreign debt. the returns aren't that good but its better than the 0.01% u get on mobey market accounts at your local bank or broker. enough..... but a holistic approach is needed. World economy....yes, but at the expense of american jobs and our country's well being......take some steps to make a world economy work for us, not against us....
The only problem with giving these thieves more money to be used to payoff our national debt,is that they will just turn around and spend it on some entitlement program to buy a few more votes for thier side.This is outrageous!These boys should be taken from the floors of congress outside and whipped with a bull whip,quitting only when they agree to start thinking about the American public ,not just one section of the American public.
I feel for every person....no fault of their own.....that cant get work....who has kids...and due to the ignorance of these well healed fatcats.......will suffer mightly.......DISCUSTING......at the very least if you know someone unemployed make sure their kids have food......because many are going join the homeless shelters shortly
Want to fix it? Ans: Term limits
'Term limits' and no 'carrying' life-long healthcare benefits, and no pension plans (just 401k's like most folks)!!
I can now understand that Fiesty doesn't have time to think of anything new or credible to say because she is too busy being the first to spew garbage and name call on nearly every article that MSN posts.
The rift between the two parties only continues to hurt those of us who work hard to survive. Those that feel 'entitled' want more of what they did not earn and those that have the most want to keep it. Regardless of what happens, our Congressman and the POTUS aren't concerned because nothing really changes for any of them.
Things need to change: It's a TEA Party sponsored bill that is taking us over the cliff! Speaker Boehner tried to get the far right wing, extremist, fanatics in the House, the TEA Party members of the Republican Party to soften their stance, but they told him to go to hell! Now, did you vote Republican? If so, them this is the load of BS they told you they were going to hand you and you ate it up. Now, by God, you're going to suffer will a good many other people. Yes, Republicans can qualify for food stamps. Of course, that money will dry up soon, too. Your Party is seeing to that.
I can't understand a political philosophy that keeps demanding, we continue to spend larger amounts of money in the form of almost incurable deficits, while watching the entire fabric of our country disolve!
Stop crying about the rich paying more, for Gods sake to go from 35 to39% will barely make a dent in our problems. Go after those who are reaping in trillions from outsourcing, legal ,but immoral tax credits(which is why Mitt only pays 13%), and the other side shows Congress passed for these crooks.
Why is the Fed allowing banks to pay depositors 40 stinking cents on a $100 savings while allowing the bank CEO's etc. to give them selves million or more dollars in so called "bonuses". I mean it isn't as if the guy isn't already getting a pretty darn good salary.
Why not give that money to the depositors who will more likely then not, put it back into the economy? And this would easily translate to billions of dollars, not many people are taking/getting these 2.75 loans any how.
We will never get out of this mess with out a major depression as long as the meat heads (elected and CEO types) we have now can not give up the greed they so dearly cherish now.
busboy! You don't know what you are talking about.Don't give up your day job bussing dishes, thinking you can make a career in the financial world.You can't!
busboy, WHAT dream world are you living in? If these rich bastards paid 35% there would of never been a discussion about taxes. They need to do away with EVERY loophole they have instead of them just getting richer and richer a everyone elses exspence. And the same goes for all these big corperations like G.E.
Allen, "they" are the US Congress and they knew exactly what they were doing when those sweet little honeys (not loop holes but deliberate exemptions) they passed for their benefactors.
It's OK everyone! Don't worry Obama is in charge so it's going to be fine and no matter WHAT happens we can ALWAYS blame our problems on those damn Republicans! Back to my Kool-aid....
The Republicans provided the tax cut in 2001 despite the Democrats.
I can not believe how much resistance there is because these rich scumbags don't want to pay their share of taxes. I'll tell you how we begin to change that, since we are trying to cut costs one of the cuts should be effective immeadiatly reduce allpoliticians pensions 30% and they should pay 35% of the cost to keep there health care. It's only fair their constantly trying to cut SS and medicare like our senoirs have an open check book. When politicians feel the bite like we do their attitude WILL change.
It's a TEA Party-Republican Party sponsored "fiscal cliff" bill that is being considered. After reading the comments from the far right wing, extremist, fanatics on this website, they're mad because they're afraid Obama won't save their sorry asses from the consequences of the bill that the people they voted for wrote. How stupid can you get??!!?? Many of these dopes don't understand what's going on here at all which always makes me think they have an ulterior motive in their ignorant hatred for the President. The good thing about going over the fiscal cliff is that these simpletons are going to hurt just as much as the Democrats (maybe even more) and that is always the best news I can get. Yes, Republicans can qualify for food stamps until their TEA Party heroes close that down too. hahahahahahahahahahaha
Out of curiosity, this is about those who are working may have to pay a few more bucks in taxes in order not to fall over the "cliff"?
What about all those "bodies" that have been laying at the bottom of that cliff since 2008?
They have until March 2013 to fix the budget before we go over this cliff.What a bunch of dramatist we have for politicians.I think that they all missed their calling.They should have all become actors.
Remember the y2k 'thing', last year's flu 'thing', and the Mayan Calendar 'thing', now we have the fiscal cliff 'thing'.
Next year it will be the sun spot 'thing', or some other media hype 'thing'.....it is all about the ratings 'thing'.