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Subscribe to RSSAs others have pointed out, the so-called fiscal cliff maybe isn't the best metaphor to use in describing the current debate over the looming tax increases and spending cuts set to take place in the new year.
After all, when you jump off a cliff, you usually don't live to tell about it.
But that isn't necessarily the case in this debate. If tax rates go up and spending cuts go into effect after Dec. 31, Congress always has the ability to fix things retroactively at a later date.
Perhaps a better metaphor to use is the deadline for midterm paper -- you might fail your class or flunk out of school if you don't complete the paper on time, or you could successfully negotiate to turn it in a later date, or you could do other things to boost your grades and standing in school.
Another metaphor is the deadline for a collective-bargaining agreement in professional sports -- having the contract expire could mean the end to the football or hockey season, or the principals could eventually reach a deal (even if that means a shortened season).
So what happens -- and what doesn't -- if Congress, as it increasingly appears, fails to reach a fiscal deal before the new year?
On Christmas, the New York Times ran a good summary:
Some hits — like a two percentage point increase in payroll taxes and the end of unemployment benefits for more than two million jobless Americans — would be felt right away. But other effects, like tens of billions in automatic spending cuts, to include both military and other programs, would be spread out between now and the end of the 2013 fiscal year in September. These could quickly be reversed if a compromise is found.
Similarly, the expiration of Bush-era tax cuts on Jan. 1 would not have a major impact on consumers if Congress quickly agreed to extend them for all but the wealthiest Americans in early 2013, as is widely expected.
Other probable changes, like a jump in taxes on capital gains and dividends, would most likely be felt over a broader period rather than as an immediate blow to the economy.
So the world doesn't come to an end on Jan. 2 or Jan. 3. But the question will turn to: What does Congress and the Obama White House do to fix things and limit the damage?
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Im one that thinks ........let it go! All of it, Ive put enough away to get through this for a few years. I can adjust my last two years before retirement with the time I will have. I just want to see everyone pay more taxes. It will be interesting to see how the inner city and urban people (who voted for Mr. Obama) do when they no longer get back tax refunds they didnt pay into. I even ask Mr. Obama and the Dems to double down and bail out all the Cities that have massive unfunded public union debt. But...make it all public, let the entire voting public know exactly who wants this.
I like the way you think.
Full speed ahead over the cliff and let's set it on fire on the way down!
And this will destroy whats left of this useless republican party. Do it.
The right way to solve this problem would put together a plan, phase in the solution, and get out of this mess over time. The democrat idea is to avoid all the problems and to try to get even with the rich who they mistakenly think stole from them.
Gee imagine a government that could only spend the money they actually already had. Sort of like everyone else living in the country .... oh oh the pain ... the pain
We have a revenue and spending problem that needs to be corrected.
Can someone help me find Obama?
I know he is supposedly back from his latest HI vacation. But, have not heard word of a Fiscal Cliff deal, word of a proposal, word of progress of any kind. I have heard his lackeys again blaming Republicans(yawn). But no sign of Obama.
Anyone know what channel the Bulls game is on? Perhaps he is court side again, rearranging court side seats while the economy sinks. Is there a Fiscal Cliff to be concerned about...not with a HI vacation or basketball tickets on the line.
Where is the President? Has anyone seen the President? Can anyone explain why, after he was elected he decided to ask for more during Fiscal Cliff talks...then blame Republicans, then disappear??
Where is Obama?
He is at the White House working.
Job1 is right, while Boehner is drinking.
Time to go over! raise the taxes to pre 2000 levels, cut spending including Military. Close ALL, All loopholes and deductions, get the max. revenue and max. spending cuts, then ,THEN go from there. Cutting taxes willie nilly was never a good idea, Both side agree cutting taxes is good for the economy therefore, good for votes, but it is bad for the deficit, and bad for getting votes! maybe get things back to level, and see who's ox is being gored! maybe some surprises on there way! it will put things back to where they were in 1980 when we had Jimmy Carter, remember him!!!!!
How about cutting spending to the pre-2000 levels as well?
By the way, cutting taxes gave the government tons of extra money. Cutting taxes doesn't create the deficit. Increasing spending above and beyond the increased revenues from the tax cuts is what created the deficits.
well stupid, the progressives will never agree cutting taxes work! so show them the other result! show them the cliff! and then the voters will show them the door.
The Bottom line is it will be the Presidents way or the highway.
That is the problem, that it is Obamas way and we are suffering. He has no clue to what he is doing and destroying America as we knew her. The only people that are living high on the hog is Obama, his czars and the politicians. Eventually Obama will have this country with only the poor and rich. The middle class will cease to exist. The more people on government hand outs the more power and control the government has. Look at other countries that this has happened to. Time is running out!
He won re-election and the majority of people want it the Presidents way. Your statement in itself is completely false and the problem is with the republicans who refuse to work with our President.
I tell you if the republicans don't get on board they will take a blood bath in 2014.
Why would anyone work with someone that has no clue what they are doing. We will not work with someone knowing they are wrong and heading towards ANOTHER disaster. Lets go over the cliff. Obama could have done something the first 2 years he was in office and had total Democrat control of the congress. They did nothing. And now they want to cry the blues. It is there own fault. Now they have the GOP to CONSTANTLY blame. When is the Democrats going to ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY for ANYTHING that happens under or during there watch? They have NEVER admitted to doing ANYTHING wrong. They think it is a weakness, when in reality it is a time to learn and negotiate. You can't work with anyone that is always correct and denies failure. This is a MAJOR weakness not admitting a mistake or failure!! Maybe one day you liberals will come around, if it is not too late!!!!
This is the problem, that the Dems are so far out of reality that they actually believe there way is the only way and are too ignorant to meet the rest of America half way. That says a lot about who the people are. This is truly sad that these people think they are above everyone else and this is why America is heading for a disaster. This is the main culprit as too why America has made ZERO advances under this president. They are not willing to discuss and negotiate a peaceful way and it is only Obamas way, which holds NO validity or credibility or logic. If Obama had known what he was doing, he would have planned a head to avoid a situation like this. This is just another example that Obama has no experience in being a community organizer which he also FAILED at!! No credentials what so ever except a good used car salesman and promoter mentality. We are in for a long 4 years again up hill with nothing positive or a light in sight.
Let's go over. Then we'll see who moves to effect a "fix" and who benefits at the risk of future votes. Problem with future votes is we voters will have forgotten the ones to blame or blindly vote as usual. As long as we voters maintain our ignorance and vote in accord with those leading us by the nose, our country will continue to have this funding issue and problem. Whatever the fix, I suspect it will be evident who are the holders of the money bags from which each party's politicians are "compensated". If we who have to spend most of what we have/get are closed out of the solution to this economic situation, then the money dispensers will have to find another source of funds as we spenders will not be able to spend and corps. (dividends receivers and such) will suffer.
We'd be better off going over the so-called cliff.
Rep. Peter DeFazio (D-OR) opposes President Obama’s proposal to cut Social Security and veterans benefits with a “chained CPI.” In fact, he says that making no deal at all before January 2013 would be preferable:
“On Jan. 1, if we do nothing, seniors get a full COLA [cost-of-living-allowance] … and Lloyd Blankfein pays more in taxes,” DeFazio said, referring to the head of Goldman Sachs. “If we do nothing, seniors don’t get stuck with this deal.”
First, let me be clear....I'm not a Republican nor a Democrat; I'm an American.
Second, all of "US" in the "U.S." should insist on the middle ground described so well in First Read back on 18 DEC: "Both sides are $200 billion appart on tax revenue ($1.2 trillion vs. $1 trillion), apart on the income cut-off for tax rates going up ($400K vs. $1 million), apart on whether you include interest as part of spending cuts (....), and apart on the debt ceiling increase (1 year vs. two years). If you simply split the difference, you could have a final deal of $1.1 trillion in revenue, $1.1 trillion in spending cuts and $600K to $700K on the income cut-off". This doesn't require the calculus that rocket scientists used to send Americans to the Moon.
From First Thoughs: On the verge of a deal, 18 DEC 0910 at:
#December 2012 archive_nav
@Sapper--a Sap you are.
Unless we get $2-$3 in REAL spending cuts for every $1 of increased tax revenue it's just kicking the can down the road again. The problem needs to be addressed head on:
WE NEED TO CUT THE SPENDING!
Obama and the SPENDOCRATS are focused on transforming the GOVernment into a GIVErnment. THEY HAVE NOT PUT FORTH SERIOUS, REAL SPENDING CUTS from their side to counter the $800B in new tax revenue Boehner put up from the GOP side.
The ball in in the Obama/Reid/Pelosi court. Either put up REAL cuts or shut up already! These 3 are so full of sh!t that you could slice them open and fertilize Nebraska, Kansas and Iowa with plenty left over.
Boehner should just shut down the government until these jerks are ready to come to the table seriously!
I lost faith in our government in its entirety back during the Reagan administration. I tried to help save it by actively working for a Republican candidate for the nomination back in the 1990s even though I am and was then a registered Democrat. However public apathy and indifference took over it seems and he simply never got a chance to save our nation and its economy. In effect we got just what we collectively deserve and it seems that we have discovered too late that clinging to 'business as usual' produces a stagnant government. So, here we sit broken hearted etc. etc.
Take the cliff! we will see who is right! we get tax increases, and big cuts, even if it is in defense, we will only go back to when Jimmy Carter was president, after Reagan the demonrats cut defense spending, it did not last long.
A do nothing Congress in lame duck session expected to take action in a short time? We can all dream, I suppose. Chances are that Boehner won't get his people to vote for anything so off the cliff we go and it will be the Republicans, specifically the Teaparty to blame.
If wannabe Emperor Obama and his SPENDOCRAT kabal led by Harry "it's DOA" Reid push us over the cliff through their refusal to compromise then I say the GOP should shut down the GIVErnment (yes GIVE, not GOV) until they are willing to play ball by the rules.
Boehner put $800B on the table and Obama said, "I get that for free". There aint no free lunch you arrogant prick.
Republicans will surely be blamed if we go over the cliff. The Democrat Media will see to that.
It doesn’t matter. When those short paychecks come in, there will be plenty of blame to go around. If Democrats think they will be immune they are crazier than I already think they are.
Could be the best possible result. Something needs to get the attention of the sheeple, and soon, or we have far worse in store. Can you spell bankruptcy?
B-A-N-K-R-U-P-T-C-Y.
I knew that you could!
The republicans will be blamed for Bankruptcy as well. Republicans would be blamed if Obama got a cold.
You bet the Republicans are getting blamed, and for good reason. That is exactly what all this posturing is about. The Boehner and McConnell do NOT want to be the first ones to put something on the table. They are handcuffed by the tea baggers in their party. There is no leadership and the American people know it even better than they did in November.
Prayer Warrior: you condemn Senators and Congressmen for being puppets of corporate America... however, when you size it out and look at it honestly.... aren't we really saying that most of those (Senate and House) are actually puppets of LABOR UNIONS AND LIBERAL SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS!..... Yepper!!!!!
Oh, and you may want to add the President and his administration in the count I noted above. So who, really, has the clout?
Stop watching Mad Dog Maddow and Chris the Fool Mathews and take stop goos stepping to the mailbox.
The middle class will be raped by Obama, as it s/b. Obama hates the middle class and wants to destroy it. His Utopian pip dream has the middle class as a huge hurdle.
Only the blind don’t see and are fooled by him, again.
May all who brung him, and their families, be destroyed by him. They are from all parties.
The problem with most of this is our uninformed electorate that don't understand the truth. They actually believe the lie that the rich are not paying their fair share and that the rich pay less than the middle class. that simply isn't close to true. Sure there are one or two exceptions, but as a rule the rich pay a 3 to 6 higher rate than the middle class.
Yeah. I'm sure Romney and others of his ilk are really struggling after paying their 13%.
I didn't say they were struggling, just that they pay more than us.
You complain about the 14% Romney pays, but most middle class families pay about 2-5%.
It is all about the 'dog and pony show'..........stay tuned, more to come!!
Merry sparklie holiday.
Yes comrads the plan is working well. We have been hearing about the fiscal cliff and taxing the wealthy and all sorts of class warfare for months now!!! It is perfect camoflague for the events in the mid east and the scam laws being rammed through while we are fuming about nothing. Then next year when all this is revealed even the libs will be SHOCKED!!! LOL It is change when we need it. I have my dominoes.
has a great list of the winners & losers selected Aug 2011...
Still wondering why the 47% that voted for Romney are still adamant about protecting the assets of the top 2% that could care less about them?
Hooverville Camps possibly. At least there are lots of empty old buildings that can be made into camps, let all the unemployed vets run them with the charities help. Culling the population - republican style!
Charities are going to be struggling too after the GOP caps that deduction.
And those who can least afford it - the retirees on fixed incomes will get hit first and worst. I guess this is what Bushleague and company meant back in the day when he declared himself a "compassionate conservative" I would gladly give him Compassion with my cane sticking out south end of his alimentary canal! I would not twist it -just shove it to the hilt!!!
How DARE the liberals accuse this cliff deal on the Republicans! Our President has had this plan for months to push us all over, and make it LOOK like it is Boehners fault. Screw all you narrow minded idiots! This is DIRTY play by the B.O. Hey how about this idea? We keep the tax CUTS AND cut spending? No one has proposed this idea now have they? This is a SPENDING problem NOT a tax problem. WAKE UP America and call it what it is and who is killing this country!
Obama is.
How dare the liberals? The boner couldn't even get a proposal past his own caucus to extend the tax cuts for those making under a million. The GOP is toast...and they are just becoming aware of that fact.
Wood....That is because Boehners propose was too far to the left for the people who voted the republicans into office.
All of America accuse the GOP, face it. Read the polls.
I say if the government can't decide what to do now to fix this problem we should stop paying them because they are not doing their job. Just like everyone else that does not do their job. All they seem to do is political positioning and lining their pockets with special interest money.
What will probably happen is they will play kick the can down the road or the blame game.
What ever happened to the government that was for the PEOPLE?
That 'government' is more concerned about primary challenges in 2014 from tea partiers.
The Budget Control Act of 2011 is the basis of this cliff which also gave us this super group:
The members chosen by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D‐NV) are Senators Patty Murray (DWA),
John Kerry (D‐MA) and Max Baucus (D‐MT). The members chosen by Senate Minority Leader
Mitch McConnell (R‐KY) are Senators Rob Portman (R‐OH), Jon Kyl (R‐AZ) and Pat Toomey (R‐PA).
Speaker of the House John Boehner (R‐OH) chose Representatives Dave Camp (R‐MI), Jeb Hensarling
(R‐TX) and Fred Upton (R‐MI). House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D‐CA) appointed Representatives
Chris Van Hollen (D‐MD), James Clyburn (D‐SC) and Xavier Becerra (D‐CA). The co‐chairs of the Select
Committee are Sen. Murray and Rep. Hensarling.
Remember how well they played together...
www DOT budgetcontrolactof2011 DOT com/?p=53
has a great list of the winners & losers selected Aug 2011...