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Subscribe to RSSAs others have pointed out, the so-called fiscal cliff maybe isn't the best metaphor to use in describing the current debate over the looming tax increases and spending cuts set to take place in the new year.
After all, when you jump off a cliff, you usually don't live to tell about it.
But that isn't necessarily the case in this debate. If tax rates go up and spending cuts go into effect after Dec. 31, Congress always has the ability to fix things retroactively at a later date.
Perhaps a better metaphor to use is the deadline for midterm paper -- you might fail your class or flunk out of school if you don't complete the paper on time, or you could successfully negotiate to turn it in a later date, or you could do other things to boost your grades and standing in school.
Another metaphor is the deadline for a collective-bargaining agreement in professional sports -- having the contract expire could mean the end to the football or hockey season, or the principals could eventually reach a deal (even if that means a shortened season).
So what happens -- and what doesn't -- if Congress, as it increasingly appears, fails to reach a fiscal deal before the new year?
On Christmas, the New York Times ran a good summary:
Some hits — like a two percentage point increase in payroll taxes and the end of unemployment benefits for more than two million jobless Americans — would be felt right away. But other effects, like tens of billions in automatic spending cuts, to include both military and other programs, would be spread out between now and the end of the 2013 fiscal year in September. These could quickly be reversed if a compromise is found.
Similarly, the expiration of Bush-era tax cuts on Jan. 1 would not have a major impact on consumers if Congress quickly agreed to extend them for all but the wealthiest Americans in early 2013, as is widely expected.
Other probable changes, like a jump in taxes on capital gains and dividends, would most likely be felt over a broader period rather than as an immediate blow to the economy.
So the world doesn't come to an end on Jan. 2 or Jan. 3. But the question will turn to: What does Congress and the Obama White House do to fix things and limit the damage?
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Compliments of the dysfunctional Congress, looks like we are about to find out!
This isn't something which just snuck up on them, it has been in looming for months!
Once again, it's the American people who are left holding the bag while the gamesmanship dominates everything!
Boehner has NO business being leader the House when you can't even show up to do the JOB he was elected to!
The rest of the players are seated at the table, why aren't the Congress Critters?
Heck of a job, Party of No.
Congress engineered the 'fiscal cliff' themselves and are now afraid to do what needs to be done. World class procrastinators and GOP losers hold our country hostage in the House! These are our best and brightest? Most definitely not!
I'm going to keep close track of my representative's efforts and votes and help to remove them if they refuse to work out a compromise. There will be more people standing in the unemployment line after the next election.
With an historically low 9% approval rating what's the worst that could happen??
Yes indeed heck of a job Republicans. If we go over I'm sending Boehner and Obama a thank you card.
Fiscal Cliff = balanced budget, for once!
Fisty, you can sit at the table all you want but you still have to be willing to ante up something to play. We all know neither the President or his stooges in the Senate wanted to fork up the house minimum.
Most of this is a lot of news media noise, you can't please all of the people all of the time. No matter what happens. We need the FED to stop feeding the banks and start paying the depositors. the reality is the jobs people are looking for went offshore, time to get re-educated and look for a different source of income cause those old jobs aren't coming back.
Actually, if we go over the cliff send Bohner a thank you card. The President has been working to avoid this mess. Not to fear, the American people are smart enough to know it's the republicans fault.
The "fiscal cliff", like all things done by the Republican Party, was intended to be a temporary fix until they could take control of the entire government.
Instead, they can't even control the House, where they supposedly have the majority. As usual, the Tea Party fleas are wagging the GOP dog.
The Bush Tax Cuts will expire (as they should have two years ago) and all of the spending cuts will take place. IMO, we should just let everything be. Eventually, business will stop relying on government spending and the economy will improve.
Since when has the president been working to avoid this? Telling Boehner no and that he will veto any bill the republicans come up with? Is that your idea of avoiding the problem.
Compliments of an inept President!!
One party has brought ideas and compromise to the table. One side has not. Lets hope the American people will wake up and not let fools like Job1 and SS tell them how to feel again. We re-elected the worst President ever because of fools like them and this is what happens when you have an incompetent person in the White house.
We were a great nation once but now with the lack of leadership and fools voteing we will be lucky to survive it.
As I have said many times before.
This is just a game for congress to save face and blame each other. It is the only way to cut the military budget and a few other NO NO places. By going off the cliff they are blameless in the eyes of their lord and masters. The PACs, SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS and LOBBYISTS that pull their strings and line their pockets. Have no fear, life will go on as usual. And as usual congress will continue to do nothing and say NO . By the way they planed this whole thing out some time ago.
Hi ho, hi ho, it's over the cliff we go!
Time to get talkingwith your accountant to see how one can hide what will be left of your money.
Let's be real folks, do you actually believe Big Gov wants to provide you with the ability to spend your own money however you choose to? Big Gov. needs your taxes to function.
During this year there was so much talk about those evil corporations. Who do you think is the largest corporation in America? It's really a mismanaged one.
Who do you think is the largest buyer of Government bonds?
You lost , get over it , you do after all favor democracy dont you ?
Well ya see here, this is what is wrong with you Republicans. You tell part of a truth and then twist the @!$%# out of the punch line to suit your needs. The President has said from the beginning that he wants to leave the tax cuts in place for everyone under $250k... what he said he would veto is anything that did not achieve that. See how simple it is to tell the truth? BUT YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!~!
You lost , get over it , you do after all favor democracy dont you ?
That's why we have two house's of Congress and a President with veto power so get over it you lost the HOR. You do favor a Republic don't you?
Well, this is what happens when there has been ZERO LEADERSHIP in our government for the past 4 years. The Presidency, Congress, House and all agencies have been on AUTO PILOT ever since Obama was inaugurated into the position of unaccountably! This next term, will be a duplication of Obama being a FAILURE.
rukidding47
are you implying that Boner's "plan B" was a COMPROMISE? Please, entertain us, and tell us what the Republicans are "compromising?"
you know what a compromise looks like?: Obama's giving in to extending Bush tax cuts in 2010 so that the unemployed and the 9/11 First responders didn't get f*cked over by the Republicans who cared only about their precious 1% - and not about the unemployed, not even about the brave men and women who ran into burning towers to save others...
so, please spare us the "Republicans are compromising" crap....
What does Congress and the Obama White House do to fix things and limit the damage?
==============
I still think at the end of the day, this point is argumentative. These effects were put into Law. What 'damage' it does, is again argumentative. Revenue is increased and spending is decreased.
It is what it is. If the Bush era taxes were so important, they would have been made permanent back in 2000. Why weren't they...because the Senate Budget Rules said to over 10 years, they would have needed to be offset with cuts elsewhere in order to be passed. We all know they weren't paid for then and thus came up for renewal at the end of 2010. The President extended at that time, going forward with the argument that the Middle class tax cuts should be made permanent and the upper end, he would let expire in 2012...said it, ran on it...won it.
I don't get these folks. If we didn't want sequestration, we shouldn't have put it into law. You did, now deal with the consequences.
The 'markets' aren't elected officials. If the 'markets' don't like the reality, it is what it is.
You want certainty. Your taxes will be what they where pre-Bush era taxes. There...there is your certainty. Now you know what your taxes are going to be.
Now...anything Congress does to reduce that tax burden will be just a cherry on top for you, because you will be running your business with today's know tax loopholes and you know what your marginal tax rates will be on the high side.
No more complaints about the unknown.
1funnygirl
or just ask Romney's accountants. They've been hiding Romney's money for decades...except 2011, of course, when he OVERPAID on purpose to make himself look like an overtaxed rich guy. You can't b*tch about paying too much when your tax rate is about 9% so fudge some numbers, don't take full deduction and voila...you have something to b*tch about...
hey funnygirl,
you act like you believe that rich people don't hide their money from IRS already...are you this naive or just acting like you are to spread your propaganda?
rukidding - as usual you can't face the truth. The President agreed to no tax increase for those making under $400,000 - which Boehner supported then didn't. Cuts have been on the table but the Republicans refuse to do anything that raises taxes because Grover told them they can't.
Get a clue. You've GOT NO representation by the Republicans!
Oh, and idiot, we are STILL a great nation, thanks to our President fixing the mess Bush left. Now if the Republicans in congress would stop obstructing everything, we could be even better!
"What happens if we go over the cliff?"
If ya ask me, that's a dumb question!!!
Of course when any sumbitch fall over the cliff, they explode and die, right? Duh
A few politicians have decided that this country aint nothing but @!$%# and deserves to go over the f*ckin cliff...what can you say...
We keep voting for these pricks, we have nobody to blame but us...
So when the cliff thing happens folks, walk it off, ya asked fa it...
It will be a slow motion crash, meaning it will be felt more as time goes on. I do not know how long Boehner will hold out or even if Obama will stick to his guns. I do know Obama holds all the cards here because clearly the Republicans will get blamed for setting up this whole trap to begin with. Obama just has to stand strong and not give in to them. The reward is to destroy the Republicans politically forever. He could get a Democratic House and Senate in two years, and we could return to the days of FDR and LBJ when they could insist that the rich pay taxes. The Democrats have to stop being wimps and be willing to use some muscle. They have been compromising with these budget nuts for far too long. That has to stop. The rich will pay more taxes because we can MAKE them for the sake of the country. If they refuse, we can jail them. If they run overseas, we can hunt them down and let them have an "accident" in some other country (like their car blowing up with them in it by a "terrorist"...give the CIA something to do....).
rukidding47 . . .
Why don't you expound upon your own personal sound bite ... we were great with W and his and Cheney's leadership? Fools "voteing?" That has got to be one of the sorriest and stupiests posts EVER!
23skidoo
Okay and what about 250K isn't saved by the top being 400K or a million? Where I went to school that upper level would include those under 250K. You?
Watching the Republicans in Congress is like watching a dysfunctional family day to day. They do nothing and try to blame everyone else for their failures. They choose to follow an idiot who doesn't give a damn about them - Grover Norquist - then wonder why things aren't going well and nobody likes them.
Then they support stupidity like the NRA and think, well this HAS to work, and they see their little world of glass falling apart.
Is it any wonder this Congress ranks as the worst in history? Time to get some adults to replace the squabbling toddlers.
Nothing will get done until Boehner has won or lost his bid to remain Speaker. It is as simple as that. The whole country is being held hostage to the Orange Man's vanity. The President can do almost nothing except promise to sign or promise to veto. And the Republicans do not have to votes to over-ride a veto.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
Yeah. Imagine that. They knew about it when both sides agreed to pass the Budget Control Act of 2011, when the two parties worked together to create the fiscal cliff. Bipartisanship has never smelled any sweeter.
I love that it was chock full of stuff they didn't want to happen, so they made some pretty harsh penalties if they couldn't get along. Since there were such harsh penalties they would be forced to get along. It's brilliant. It's like suggesting if you and I can't get along a third person is going to get punched repeatedly in the face. So you and I better start getting along. Soon. Or he'll pay for it.
Neither party intended to follow through with "going over the fiscal cliff". They just figured they could put a bunch of things in place and ignore them and find a new way to kick the can down the road. If this was the real solution that they came up with 15 months ago and they intended for us to do this to solve the problem there would be no talk of dodging it.
I must be delusional thinking that they would attempt to pass legislation for the benefit of the country in terms of short and long term fiscal health.
Wow! In 1 week, 2 million people could end up homeless and hungry.
A whole lot of people won't be able to pay their rent, or buy food.
American Girl - it's frightening that some don't understand that. The people hurt most are going to be those who can afford it the least. But, Republicans don't care. As you can see on this site - many still refer to these peope as lazy and not wanting to work even though many work 2 jobs just to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. It's incomprehensible to me that people can be so heartless.
23skiddoo
I believe that is called class envy, class warfare, and dividing the country.
The bulk of small business as classified by the IRS easlily can have one-time profits that are up to $1,000,000. If you look back at the historic tax tables on the IRS website, $250,000 and up paid the highest rate in 1994. 2011 that is about $380,000 due to bracket indexing to keep pace with inflation. For 2013 that number would appear to be about 390,000 - 395,000.
By Obama setting the mark at $250,000 he is increasing taxes on the bulk of small businesses. By offering that point to be $400,000 he is only offering what the republicans passed in August of 2012 with the exception of increasing the tax on the bracket by 4.6 points. That is still an increase in taxes on a large part of small businesses.
In effect, by Boehner offering the additional 4.6 point increase on over $1,000,000 he was raising taxes on the super rich and missing most small businesses.
Small business is where over half of your new jobs are coming from. Obama' original plan was raising taxes on most small businesses, just as the Republicans said. Small business should not have it's taxes raised seeing they are not producing the jobs most recoveries have.
Most of us can still survive if nothing gets done. Including those working for the military complex making or servicing military equipment we dont need. Because if they are laid off they have unemployment benefits to help them get by while this is resolved or they look for other employment. But to those that are currently unemployed and have a potential of not having any money coming in on Jan 1st because these retards cant come up up with a deal.
The tax issue is something that congress has been fighting for over 2 yrs now and with all the talk that it will take an election to get the retards to do the people's business was all BS. The elections came and went and its as if it never happened. It doesnt matter, that the president got re-elected on a platform of raising taxes on the rich, Reps still oppose him. It doesnt matter that the president as far as electoral votes kicked his opponents mofo azz, supposedly the president does not have a mandate. It doesnt matter that all the polls, which turned out to predict the outcomes of the elections by the way, all have the overwhelming support of the president when it comes to taxes and his overall approach to governing, the reps still oppose. How many elections can these people lose before they stop and think that maybe they should govern like the American people want them to and not what their handlers are telling them to do? I know stupid question....
TO: SeekingSanity who wrote:
Just knowing that 2,000,000 Americans at a minimum, some with families, will be in this kind of dire situation is very scary to me because Republicans are capable of hurting 2 MILLION Americans all at the same time and judging by the hate speech and all the other rhetoric from Republicans, they are going to make these people "feel the pain."
If Republicans don't give a crap about 2 million Americans, some with families, then how can they even call themselves "American" in the first place?
American Girl and Seeking Sanity, you are right. People will get hurt. I never wanted this cliff thing to happen. It was set in motion last year. I regarded Obama as having some responsibility for his signing it and therefore did not vote for him. Now that it is done and we are stuck for this ride, I expect him to at least play a good hand of cards here such that it will turn out for the good and these republicans be defeated. He has to stand strong here! This should be the last time we ever have to face these cruel republicans.
With all the Democrats and Libs placing blame as usual, on everyone but themselves, why wasn't anything done by the Democrat Congress between 2006-2010. The only thing they did was past Obama care by themselves and closed doors on the Republicans. The majority of America DID NOT WANT Obama care the way it was written and Obama made a bunch of LIES to calm Americans down. He is nothing but a habitual LIAR and out for himself and the few that support this hostile, incompetent man. They are the only people that will be rewarded by Obamas incompetence. Pelosi, Reid have made millions on top of millions of dollars by using the government for their personal wealth. Boehner should be replaced as head of Congress as he is no better than the rest of them. In the Politicians eyes they are 1st and we are 2nd class citizens. Our government MUST be REVAMPED from the President throughout all agencies. The government employees for the most part would be total failures in the private sector and would not be making the money and benefits they do not deserve. The government is putting themselves in a position of another revolt in the future as it is heading down a path of a 3rd world country and a dictatorship like Chavez in Venezuela.
TO: DB Akron who wrote:
I believe this is what's called "paying the bills".
It sure is sickening to me to pay twice as much in taxes as Mitt Romney pays, NOW you want to call it "class envy" because it's way past time with people who have the money to pay the country's bills!
Oh Republicans just love to make poor people poorer, and rich people richer with their backwards minds!
If you don't want to pay taxes, maybe you should move to a country where you won't have to pay any.
Hello folks, in the long run nothing will happen if we go over the "fiscal cliff". The middle class and poor will end up paying the ever increasing bill. The "fiscal cliff" is a ruse being used to implement austerity on the middle class and poor to give more to the rich. It's a game!
The banksters whose recklessness and illegal behavior caused this terrible recession are now lecturing the American people on the need for courage to deal with the nation’s finances and deficit crisis. Before telling us why we should cut Social Security, Medicare and other vitally important programs, these CEOs might want to take a hard look at their responsibility for causing the deficit and this terrible recession.
Our economy is based on debt. The Fractional Reserve Banking System relies on debt and if we didn't have any debt in the system there wouldn't be any "money" in the system. In other words our 16 plus trillion and our 1 plus trillion yearly deficit are required and a byproduct to prop up and maintain this evil Federal Reserve system. That is why 85 billion dollars of monopoly money is being pumped into the economy monthly to prop up the banks to perpetuate the illusion that our economy is solvent. That is why the 1.4 quadrillion derivatives casino market is allowed. To give this failed system the illusion that it is liquid. If the powers that be would allow a bank to go bankrupt they would have to attach a price on their assets that they have leveraged 100 to 1 and re-hypothecated to all the other major banks the banks would fall like dominoes. The people in the position and in the know understand that this is all a game and are wealthy beyond reproach. The only reason this system has survived is for two reasons, the petrodollar and because when you and I exchange a dollar we give it legitimacy. If either of these two factors collapse so will the dollar, nothing is backing it up because it is meaningless it is debt.
If we paid/gave every dollar the entire world has back to the consortium of mostly European banksters who created this monopoly money out of thin air we would still be in debt because they didn't put the interest attached to every dollar into the economic system in the form of currency. Therefore there will always be debt and it will grow and has grown exponentially and as a result creates debt slaves out of us all and the powers that be know this. So it doesn't matter if we raise the debt ceiling under this system because the dollar is the world reserve currency and we can "print ourselves out of debt" as long as the world is willing to deal with the inflation our printing inflicts on their economy. They along with the middle class and poor are the ones who are footing the bill for our debt.
The bottom line is that the banksters/Federal Reserve hold the true power in the world and as long as we don't recognize and reveal the man behind the curtain we will be consigned to the Merry Ole Land of Oz and be relegated to more and more austerity. It is only beginning!
P.S. And to you Republican Democrat blame gamers unless you are in the top 1% they keep you divided and distracted while screwing you equally!
It's not a cliff, it's a street curb.
Taxes will go back to where they were in the '90s. The tax break was supposed to be temporary, it just kept getting extended. We will have to get along on what we got along with before the stupid tax breaks.
Military spending needs to be cut. Stop making things it doesn't want or need
TO: TrustVerify who wrote:
Tell that to the people whose rent comes due on January 1st, and whose power bills come due, and who have children to feed.
TO: alan_static who wrote:
Republicans have declared the United States is "bankrupt".
So then, how do Republicans presume to "balance" a bankrupt budget with not enough money coming in to pay the bills, because I don't think you can "balance a budget" when you're "bankrupt".
The gist of this article seems to be that if Congress doesn't fix the problems now, they can fix them later. But my question is: If they can't fix them now, how are they going to fix them later? Congress does not appear to have the ability to do anything at all.
Hello American Girl, the point of my post is that in the long run the middle class and poor will end up covering what ever deficits that are run up. I must ask you do you know how money is created and who creates it? In order to understand the "fiscal cliff" it really is a prerequisite. I'm not trying to be smug here it's just that this is a game to the rich and they must laugh at how easy we are to manipulate. Look over here at the shiny object kids!
If we weren't bankrupt then why do we have a 16 plus trillion dollar deficit and a 1 plus trillion yearly deficit. Why are our banks liable for 95% of the global derivatives market. If we are solvent why is the Federal Reserve pumping 85 billion dollars a month (40 billion QE3 and 45 Billion Operation Twist III) to keep our economy propped up. Why is the Fed keeping the interest rates at close to 0% penalizing seniors and savers.
It's because we are bankrupt and kicking not a can but a barrel down the road. What happens regarding the "fiscal cliff" pales in comparison to the debt and bond bubbles. Whey they pop and all bubbles pop, the 2008 collapse is going to look like a walk in the park.
Check out www.usdebtclock.org
Lot's of lies, lot's of finger pointing and name calling, and more of the same doing nothing positive for the benefit of the country from the r/tp/con criminal cabal. Only the low intelligence and willfully ignorant blame the temper tantrums being shown by the right as being the fault of Obama and the left wing.
Passing an extortion demand that basically punishes all except the chosen few elites is not a bill, it is a terrorist demand threatening to destroy the very people it purports to help. If the senate passed a bill that basically disbanded the military, nationalized the oil industry, nationalized the financial industry, mandated that those with incomes above 100k fund it completely, jailed all of the teahadists and conservatives, and disbanded the house from congress, it would be along the same ridiculous lines as what the blight wing proposals from the house have been.
The right can ignore reality in favor of the distorted lies of faux spews, but that does not mean that the grownups can't slap their hate filled views down. The citizens voted against the r/tp/con and their fuk everyone except me me me mantra in the last election. Either do what is in the best interest of the country for once or STFU and GTFO of office.
Enough of the greedy tantrums from not only the right, but from both sides of the aisle. The right is the biggest group that is responsible for destroying the country but the left has it's share of zealots as well. Do something FOR the citizens for once instead of always TO the citizens. Grow up or resign office so that compromising adults can try to salvage the country from all of the destruction.
bayllie
Hi ho, hi ho, it's over the cliff we go!
Time to get talkingwith your accountant to see how one can hide what will be left of your money.
Works for me there ballie! Even the Daddy Warbucks hides his, as does Buffet.
Of course I believe in hiding as much $$$$$ from Uncle Sam as I can - it's the American way! and you don't have to be only in the rich class to accomplish this. Many in the Middle Class do also. Bsut I will attempt to get away with all that I can this tax year.
Who knows how The Great Divider and the Progressives will try to keep honest working folks from their hard earned money.
If I work hard to make mine ballie, why do I need to share it with those who don't? Seems un-American.
Now I've noticed you harp on those evil corporations. What is the largest US corporaTION? dO YOU KNOW?
American Girl.......Budget?!?! Are you kiddin me?!?! Your Prince of Clowns hasn't presented a budget that even his own party would pass.
Perhaps, some self-proclaimed "progressive" can provide a link to SPECIFIC SPENDING REDUCTIONS that Obama has proposed as part of the "fiscal cliff compromise". I keep hearing that they do, in fact, exist ... but no one can seem to provide details.
Has Obama detailed specific spending reductions ? Anyone ?? Can you provide details ... a link, something ... anything at all ???
I don't suppose I will stay up tonight looking for details ... it would be like waiting on the tooth fairy to show, or those purple unicorns the liberals all believe to exist !!!!!!!!!!!!!
funnygirl,
By "hiding" I hope you mean finding legitimate and appropriate deductions and credits.
If you're talking about "hiding" in the sense of not reporting actual income, that's a CRIME.
Speaking for all the other taxpayers, you better be taking about the former.
Oh yeah. Like it is going to affect them right away. LOL. More lib scare tactics LMAO @ U. At best they may have to trade their smart phones for something they actually talk on and turn off the Ipad.
After perusing these posts for the last hour or so, it becomes painfully clear that many of our “friends” on the right have little to no clue as to how the THREE branches of the federal government actually work.
I realize that the blind hatred the right wing has for our black president clouds their vision and what little reason they may have, but the statements that are being made are completely without basis in fact and belie the utter ignorance of the posters. Please allow me to elaborate:
Every time I see a right wing sympathizer post something like “The President is on a spending spree” or “The President wants a blank check” I want to just scream at the poster to go back to school and learn how our government ACTUALLY FUNCTIONS! Aren’t the conservatives the ones that are SUPPOSED to value and actually understand our government? If so, how can they also be so completely ignorant of the fact that the President has NO control over the money our government spends? Are you really all that clueless as to not know that the ONLY thing the President can do with regards to fiscal spending is to either SIGN or VETO a spending bill? The President does NOT determine spending, that is the job of CONGRESS! All the President can do is agree or disagree with the spending bills that are sent to him from Congress! Is this really that hard to grasp? If not for your blind hatred for the black man at 1600 Pennsylvania avenue, perhaps you conservatives MIGHT remember your high school civics lessons. Make all the dumb cracks you want about this issue. All it does is highlight your ignorance and clear unwillingness to acknowledge reality.
Along the same lines are the geniuses that post statements like “The Senate needs to pass a bill that the House can vote on.” Once again, this is NOT how our system of government works! If you have any grasp on reality, you know that the Constitution MANDATES that ALL spending bills MUST originate in the House of Representatives! Why are these concepts so foreign to posters that would have you believe that THEY are the “true” Americans? If you were even remotely American or patriotic (as you all like to scream as you beat your chests), you would know this. I know, it is not convenient to deal in reality when all you REALLY want to do is disparage and obstruct the black man in the White House. If you really want to move the political discourse forward and actually do something productive, go back and learn how this government really works and be willing and ABLE to have an intelligent discussion without attacking or name calling.
Lastly, there are the intellectuals that proclaim that “the President is a dictator.” Are you intellectuals so ignorant of the fact that there are three CO-EQUAL branches of our government? As already identified, the President has VERY limited powers granted to him by the Constitution. Other than negotiating foreign treaties and declaring war, the President can ONLY sign or veto bills presented to him by Congress. How in the hell does that even REMOTELY resemble a dictatorship? For someone referred to as the most powerful person in the free world, there are, in actuality, VERY few things that the office of the President can actually accomplish without the consent and approval of Congress. Now, if the fact that we have a black President is the equivalent of a Dictator in your closed little minds, PLEASE do us ALL a favor and move OUT of the USA and go find a country to live in that will teach you what a REAL dictatorship is all about! I am so sick and tire of people (that arguably should know better) shouting such ignorance as if it were fact simply because they repeat it often and loudly. Get a freaking clue and learn how YOUR system of government works. Otherwise, do not get pissed off or offended when someone that actually KNOWS better calls out your ignorance and brings attention to all just how clueless you are.
Now that we have some basic facts out of the way, what do you say we start discussing our pressing issues based on facts and reality and leave the ad hominem, hate, and fantasy based allegations at home? This country faces SERIOUS issues that NEED to be addressed by intelligent and fact based arguments. If you are ignorant or unwilling/unable to deal in facts and reality, please take your arguments to Fox News or the Rush Limbaugh show where they DO deal in ignorance and misrepresentations of facts. This is not brain surgery people. ANY person that calls themselves a patriotic American has, at the very least, the obligation to learn and understand how our system of government actually works BEFORE you start spouting your opinions as to what needs to be done! If you are unwilling or unable to do this most basic thing, you are NOT an American and have NO place in our political discourse…
Talk to the Hand,
As if they paid for the phone or ipad!
Our whole nation is built on credit!
You have a mortgage that's a multiple of your income, don't you?
It's not just poor people's fault. It's everybody's fault. You too. We've built this house of cards and we've benefited all the way through. Don't tell me you don't have a nicer TV than your Mom had.
You have a society that has the best military in the world, by far. We have some of the best infrastructure, the best medicine, the best of a LOT of things. the whole WORLD comes here because it's GREAT,
Now you have pay for it too. That $16Trillion. Part of it is yours. Time to pay up.
1funnygirl
if you don't like the US tax laws, move to Russia or the Caymans. Other than that, not paying what you are required by laws is illegal.
HONEST???? says the person who just condoned hiding $$$ from Uncle Sam.
BTW, I didn't realize that taxes were an Obama thing. I thought income taxes have been the law for decades. Tell me, how is it that under this "great Divider" you pay less in taxes than under any "fiscally responsible" Republican president?
you are not that bright, funnygirl, are you?
For the first time, I actually agree with redhead! Boehner has no business being leader of the House. He's elected as a repub and acts like a dem. We need a real repub to lead the House. Boehner keeps giving Obama everything he wants. Obama screamed for $800 billion in new taxes and Boehner rolled over and gave it to him. Obama, of course, couldn't be satisfied with that, so he upped the ante and demanded $1.6 trillion. Fortunately, there was enough sanity left in the repubs to say no. Now, we will end up with everyone's taxes going up with the largest tax increase in history and Obama will be thrilled and Obama will feign anger and blame the repubs. Redhead will also blame the repubs. And so won't all the libs here. Yet, who proposed and passed legislation to make sure that taxes wouldn't go up? The repubs! Stupid is as stupid does. But, as the dems have argued repeatedly: The way to boost the economy is to take money away from people. So, everyone with less money will spend more. Go figure.
This is Progressive Theater. It's like the hype of the End of the Mayan Calendar. If we go over the fiscal cliff, people will still get up, go to work or do whatever it is they do, even stay in bed. We're all in this together. If the ship sinks, the officers get to swim too.
What is coming to an end, is the past. If the good old days were all that good, there would have not been changes to the way the budget was reviewed in the past. World economic growth dictates jobs and economies, and financial security. There is lots of available labor world wide, unfortunately for technologies which are no longer valid. The US is no longer the manufacturing giant it was after World War Two, precisely for the reason that most of the rest of the world's manufacturing capability was destroyed in the war, and our's wasn't. Now that other economies of the world are better situated to compete with our ability to produce stuff, our economic realities aren't suited to the philosophy ideals of both the Democratic Progressives, and the Republican Ultraconservatives. So Washington will remain deadlocked as the old dinosaurs butt heads. The middle will still get up, go to work, and live on whatever it is they get for income and tax status.
The problem with Washington D.C. is the number of Harvard, Yale, and other Ivy League schooling in political philosophy. Too much caviar and foie gras, and not enough bean soup and cornbread. Intellectual constipation and verbal diarrhea.
Where you born under a rock??? President Obama compromised more then any other second term wining President would have done. Even so, Boehner did like he did last time and just before an agreement would have been made, he walks away and comes up with something stupid like a Plan B that has no chance of passing even in Boehners own house. Wake up!
Brenda wrong; there has been no compromise by the administration on the most important issue, SPENDING CUTS, the administration has proposed no plan; they are playing chicken, and the house is not budging!
Saxon,
I realize that you suck on the exhaust pipes of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh so you clearly do not have a grasp of what is actually happening in DC. The President made 400 BILLION of concessions on the spending side and 800 BILLION on the revenue side.
All Boehner needed to do was present the plan to his house colleagues. Instead, he chose to walk away from ALL the CONCESSIONS that the President had committed to and tried his bait and switch routine with the so-called Plan B. He could not even get his own caucus to vote for his ill-conceived plan!
Now, tell me another story about why you hate this President so much and how the thought of a black/mixed/mulatto in the White House scares you so freaking much!
Saxon, do you even read anything besides fox? President Obama has put more spending cuts on the table then any other President in 2 decades. Really, read before you post and I don't mean fox that by the way has turned off their comment section for fear someone might not just drink the juice over there and post something that exposes their lies. They want you to be just the way you are, a mindless drone.
lol! Seriously digusted? What concessions? Obama has yet to concede anything. The repubs voted to not raise taxes on the 99%. Did Obama agree to that? Of course not! Has Obama proposed any cuts in spending? Of course not! Has Obama ever proposed anything that will reduce the deficit and help spur the economy? Of course not! Now, as for you question as to why I hate this president, it's easy, he's doing everything he can to destroy the country. The deficit has increased by over $6 trillion since Obama has taken office. No budget has been passed. Every budget that Obama has proposed would have increased the deficit by even more than it already has gone up. That's why no dem has even voted for one of his budgets. That doesn't even begin to address the problem with Obama, but it's a start.
Witchrunner,
Do us all a favor and re-read my earlier post. Obama does not have ANY votes and does not propose legislation. Any deficits are the fault of CONGRESS or do you not have any clue about how OUR government works?
I know you are full of blind hate for the President, but that does not make your incoherent and IGNORANT posts true...
GOP members of the House have proposed to "kick the can down the road" with temporary measures. By then the "fiscal slope" will have become steeper with neglect, and then the GOP Tea Party says they'll impose their game of brinkmanship on all Americans all over again, to extort from us whatever they want.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/24/2012-fiscal-cliff-anti-ta_n_2358905.html?utm_hp_ref=politics
http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2012/12/fiscal_cliff_looms_washington.html
Please fiscal cliff, come!
I want everyone here to have less money. Every single person.
Feisty - The House is still Republican. The Senate is still Democrat. The President is still Incompetent.
You have been bleating for four years that all of Obama's failures are due to lack of cooperation by the Republicans. Nevertheless, you still voted for him knowing full well that he would never be capable of creating consensus among the various political factions within our government.
Dysfunctional government is what you voted for. Dysfunctional government is what you got. And if you don't like it, you have only yourself to blame.
Quit complaining about it!
Kannin, I realize that fox has turned off their comment section and all you can do is come over here and post, but really, trying to spread lies? We know what time it is and the GOP's time is up. Lowest rating ever for a House and guess who is running it? The House has been obstructionist from day one of the Presidency for Obama. Even with that, he is still getting what he wants and the Houses rep with the people is at an all time low. Everyone knows who is at fault and it's not President Obama. Heck, even Boehner can't get a bill passed with his own caucus. Also, your saying that all we had to do was vote for Mitt the twit and lying Ryan and all would be better. No, things would have been even worse for the middle class. In fact, there would be no more middle class. Just rich executives and poor, because there would be no jobs for anyone to have, they would all be overseas. As far as dysfunctional government, you only have the Republicans to blame for that.
Get real, Kannin. The dysfunction is coming from your end of the political stick.
In Obama's first term he worked very hard to cooperate and work in a bi-partisan way. But he was blocked at every turn by your obstructionist Tea Bagger Congress. Did you miss the Mitch McConnell quote about his party's primary goal being to make Obama a one-term president?
The GOP FAILED in that attempt.
Now that we have re-elected him, Obama isn't waiting to get cooperation from Congress.
Once burned, twice shy. The American people are backing the President's agenda. Your side needs to face reality...or be voted out.
disgusted: Nice try! Convenient line there: "Obama does not have any votes and does not propose legislation." That makes " The President made 400 BILLION of concessions on the spending side and 800 BILLION on the revenue side," a big lie! You appear to be ignorant of the way politics work in Washington. Obama has said that he will not sign legislation that does not raise taxes on the "rich." So, his minions, including Harry Reid, refused to bring the House passed legislation that prevents the taxes of those making less than $250k from being brought to a vote in the Senate. You can twist it all you want, but it still falls on Obama. Yes, Congress does legislate. The same libs who by your twisted logic of absolving Obama from any and all responsibility for the current mess saying it all falls on Congress, are the same ones that criticize the House for passing legislation that Obama has said he wouldn't sign. As long as the dems are going to stand by Obama and insist on raising taxes on everyone, then Obama shares the blame. The fact is that anyway you look at it, Obama would rather taxes go up on everyone than not punish the "rich". And, the left is buying the argument too. So, when taxes go up, be glad and smile as you got what you and Obama and the dems in Congress wanted. :)
Obamacare is the elephant in the room, doubled the taxes, Supreme court said. Lame duck president for the next 4 years. When the health care crap gets put down, the economy can roll again.
Dem, why all the sorrow, we are going back to the Clinton tax rates! This will raise revenue. Yes, it will raise taxes on everyone (but do we not all "receive" from our govt.?).
Funny how so many Dem hated the Bush tax cuts and now they are complaining that the rate cut they really do not like was the cut for the rich... GREEDat it's finest! If we really care about our country, all should be part of the solution (no, I am not a 1 or 2%, I just care about our country).
I find it interesting that our debt is close to 100% of our GDP and that they anticipate that when Obama leaves office, we will be close to 120% of GDP, close to what Greece was at when Banks and other countries quit lending them money, hummmmmmmm, is this why our credit rating is be downgraded???
We will struggle with rasing enough taxes to keep up our "drunk sailor" spending, I think I hear the "can being kicked" down the road (alot like Greece did)
"U$A Account Overdrawn" coming soon????????
IMO, Disgusted in PA, gets best post of the day.
That was for post1.50.
The blame game will be continued with renewed energy and I will waste days trying to turn it into a board game... hmmmm, strip cliff with shots and rubber cheques.
I'd suggest a chess-like approach BCWC - detailing the pawns, knights, bishops, etc.
Chess? How about chest and detailing the boobs?
That works ...
totally off-topic but your post made me think of this ...
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/entertainment/dolly-parton-has-tattoos-all-over-her-breasts
Maybe my brain went to detail on the boobs on the chest. ;-)
Let's hope Mr. Bohner's career ends with him being outed as speaker. He is the worst ever.
Worst ever was that dingbat Pelosi.
Worst President ever is the clown in office now.
Just the facts Job1. I know you don't understand facts but please try sometime.
Job1 - do you mean 'outed' as written, or 'ousted'? I got a smile from that one, BTW ;)
rukidding - you are mentally deficient, aren't you? This President will be one of the top ten greatest. But, I'll bet you voted for Bush - twice! You really are dumb!
When we go over the cliff, walk it off folks....ya asked for it by voting for these pricks
We have no one but ourselves to blame.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Boehner deserves a bone for taking the 99%ers for a ride and as for the ever ignorant Republitards and the 1%ers; a finger for each one of you...hope you all choke on the gluttony these holidays
rukidding47
Courtesy of Ask.com
Question:
What do you call a liar who believes their own lies?
Answer:
RU-
Time to turn over a new leaf.
Please get help.
Salud
One of the top ten greatest?? You mean you don't see him as the greatest of all time and of the whole entire Universe??
blackcatwhitecat,
"I will waste days trying to turn it into a board game"
I suggest you turn it into a video game complete with lots of sex and violence. It's more in keeping with the times.
SS
You voted Obama twice so I guess that make you Stupid. President George W Bush on his worst day was 99% better then Obama on his best.
Thomas
When you looked that up did a picture of Obama come up?
rukidding ...
Wow. I think we all know your mindset a little bit better know. By the way, where HAS he been lately? Didn't see him at the RNC, definitely isn't being asked to assist with foreign policy ... has he left the country lately? Isn't there a whisper somewhere of him being tried for war crimes?
DirtyHarry ... brand-new out of the box as of yesterday ... your posting style looks so familiar ...
Try discussing anything with a liberal is like teaching an infant to do something. Liberals have no character, no morals, no pride, no common sense and think they are the only people with an answer. I have yet to see anything half way intelligent come out a liberals mouth. Everything they have to say is like coming out the opposite end. Why can't you people hold a impartial conversation or even give a response that is half way intelligent. All you people want to do is argue to prove a moot point and all that ends up is you making yourself sound ignorant. Liberals must argue all the time to make themselves feel intelligent, despite them coming out looking like a schmuck!.
Hey Fuzzy Panda boy ...
You do know Panda's are the stupidest animals alive don't you? Interesting that you chose that as an avatar. As far as your tirade about liberals, well, we all consider the source. I'd suggest you buy yourself a dictionary. You could learn an awful lot - just remember it starts with the letter A. You can visit Sesame Street if you need further alphabet help.
Fuzzy-0457,
I do think you've solved your own dilemma. Your parents were not liberals. Therefore, they considered teaching anything to infant you as a huge waste of time. Poor little Fuzzy thought he could "see" words coming out of people's mouths as the rest of us were taught we must "listen" to words coming out of people's mouths.
Don't blame the liberals. Had we been there, we would have taken pity on Baby Fuzzy and taught him how to listen.
Progressives and the ultraconservatives are our society's idiots. A progressive hides behind the cloak of liberal, and the ultraconservatives hide behind the cloak of conservative. Both sides have political philosophies forged when you could buy a car for $50, jack up the rear end, spin a drive tire by hand and turn the engine over. Guess what kiddies, Newsweek and Time are no longer printed magazines, and the progressives and ultraconservatives still think how good their picture will appear when published in LIFE and LOOK. Argue among yourselves for your entertainment and pleasure... but you're still not putting any analysis or ideas on the table.
Why not ask Speaker Boehner that question?
After all, when the deal was made that created the Fiscal Cliff last year Speaker Boehner said he got 98% of what he wanted.
Umm.....Since the bill was to prevent this mess and force them to get along you point is pointless.
The point being pointless
caries far less weight than
the Speaker of the House being impotent, a RINO & a drunk .
Wouldn't it be nice if we had average American citizens in Washington instead of career politicians? I am sure sensible people could agree on a plan.
Sensible people wouldn't have let it get to this point in the first place.
With that, I can agree!
Term limits anyone? If these fools were less concerned with their re-elections, maybe they could get something done.
As much as I agree with you, it will never happen. A Constitutional Amendment would require approval of the various state legislatures, and those are the people who eventually want to become a US Rep. or Senator. The game is rigged and we'll never be able to change it.
Sad thing is we as the American voter continue to vote them in and this goes for both sides. Where is our common sense?
We have term limits...they're called elections.
The entire House of Representatives was up for re-election this year along with a third of the Senate. How many did we send back to Washington even with the 9% approval rating of Congress?
no elections are called elections and term limits are term limits
It is unfortunate that only 18 states allow recall of their Congressional representation - they all deserve it, but the barrier is quite high to accomplish it.
We've had a lot of protests in the past; at what point will there be a serious march on Congress?
End of unemployment benefits for 2 million out of work Americans is a big deal.
Ending tax cuts for the wealthy is not.
Seems to me Speaker Boehner's #1 priority is to keep his leadership position, and to do that he can't get his crazy members to vote for the tax cuts for the rich to end. Nor can he appear to be working with members of Congress on the Democratic side. His caucus won't allow it.
That' a dictatorship.
Congress is made up of 2 parties. Certain members of the GOP aren't interested in the democratic side of the aisle. They're only concern is to make the wealthy happy. Meanwhile, those unemployed look at a Congress knowing full well their United States Congresspeople don't give a damn if they're unemployed. They still get their paychecks whether they work or not.
We see President Obama is @ the White House. Where is Speaker Boehner? Any photos of what he's doing these days?
I saw one this morning of him waking up in a Thailand brothel with a capuchin monkey wrapped on his arms and a empty bottle of Jack on the nightstand...
Pat, the Farm Bill is a big deal also. It will be the first time in my memory that milk and cheese will be cheaper in Canada.
Feisty, the Lost Weekend? haha
blackcat, I so agree - it is a big deal if nothing gets done. So GD irresponsible Speaker Boehner is. So irresponsible.
Only ONE bottle?? ;)
My Bad!
Forgot to mention the empty 12 pack cans littering the bed... ;o)
Yes, Feisty...and the best he could do for a nighttime companion was a monkey!
It is definitely time for charges of treason against Grover Norquist and his merry band of idiots!
They are indicating milk will be $7 a gallon! Total stupidity!
kaybeetoys - and the monkey is getting outta there!
The monkey got the worse end of that deal, for sure!
Kaybee,
Although the monkeys pink tu-tu was a nice touch! ;o)
Seeking ...
Did any of you catch him on This Week on Sunday? He's on the NRA's BOARD and listening to him go on about how we all need to carry ... that man is a piece of work and definitely treasonous!
Even if they get a deal it is unlikely the unemployment benefits will be part of it. Just like TEMPORARY social security cut the unemployment was never meant to be a long term thing. Its not like the unemployment is canceled it just goes back the way it was before you get your 26 weeks from the state. The unemployment rate is actually less now than when they enacted the 99 weeks. It has to end sometime
It has to end sometime
You make that stmt about unemployment benefits. How do they live if they can't find a job?
It has to end sometime
Yes, it does. Tax cuts for the rich.
Careful now. We must not wrong the monkey's. It was actually Boehner and that Ga. representative "Tom Price". Course, watching what Price was doing at the time, it was easy to misinterpret the scene . From a distance, it did look like a Monkey eating a banana.
From the article above:
The conservative media has been portraying this as if it were a Mayan prediction.
The Mayans are about as good at predictions as your local weather-person.
Here's a prediction for you.
I predict Tomasgrande will be hung-over on Jan 1st!!!
Salud
P.S. I'm still on vacation.
(wink)
Hasn't anyone told Boehner that he can get AIDS from monkeys? Someone should also remind Boehner that according to some RWNJ's (the late Rev. Jerry Falwell for example) AIDS is the Lord's visitation on the ungodly.
And, boy oh boy, Boehner is ungodly.
Pat,
Keeping the Speakership is not the prioirty. Strengthing his grip was in the removal of 3 Republicans from house committies. Plan "B" did him no favor and may cost him the speakership.
TO: bill0000 who wrote:
I remember here recently when some lady from the deep south was just going off (she said she was from Alabama I think), just going bat schit crazy, because there was a sudden hurricane or storm of some sort that swept by and just knocked her house to pieces, so she said, but I believed her because of the passion that was coming through in her words. She was just wailing about getting help, and why no one was coming to help her, and this was around the time when Republicans were all but demanding an end to FEMA.
My point is, if it was you, Bill, who needed that money like these 2 million American do, you'd support these people in need.
But unless and until it hits you, you could care less.
I just wasn't raised that way.
There is no cliff. It would be a gradual recession in 2013. It would start in the spring and be over by the Holidays. In the long run the CBO has already estimated we would be in a stronger financial position as a country. Business want money in the poor and middle class hands because those are their customers. Republicans know this and will pass the middle class tax cut in January along with extended unemployment and some stimulus. Watch!
Yes, we'll live if we go over the fiscal cliff, but the Republican Party won't.
Can anyone name in what way Republicans have aided in our economic recovery? It seems all their best ideas are about how to send us straight back into a recession, including all the verbiage they spew, which seems designed to drive down consumer confidence. Electing Republicans to the House in 2010 was the worst decision voters EVER made, and that includes giving George W. a second term.
Amy, I believe a number of Republican congressmen will have that falling feeling in 2014. I certainly hope so. How they can even look themselves in the mirror is amazing!
And that is precisely the liberal plan. They want to bolster their chances in 2014 and thus will do whatever it takes to demean the GOP in the public eye. As it stands now, they have the media to help them do it. You see no articles comparing former Dem plans and the similarity to what the GOP is now proposing.
Smart political moves by the Obama administration. Piss poor "for the citizens" policy. They can blame everything on the GOP and that is what the American people will see. Not that they are also not willing to give to a reasonable degree. But rather "it's those nasty old GOP and their rich buddies who did this" further vilifying them and dividing the country and not allowing ANY healing whatsoever. Doesn't fit the absolute power agenda.
The GOP doesn't need anyone's help to demean their party. They're doing a fabulous job of that, at least. Have you seen the recent Gallup poll results? The GOP is down both in terms of general public perception and perceived ability to legislate. The GOP will be blamed if we go over the cliff, and rightly so.
You did this to yourselves.
The Dems don't have to try to vilify the right- they are doing it all on their own.
As we said before the President has compromised over and over again and these republicans fight him at every turn.
However, this time it will be the Presidents way. Period!
No we didn't. It is part of the plan. If the GOP gives in, perception is Obama wins. If we go over the cliff, Obama still wins. He gets his tax increases he wants (which he will soon propose tax cuts from those increases for the middle class and whatever income level he wants) and he also gets budget cuts especially in the DOD budget which so many on the left vilify. The other cuts can be remedied if he doesn't want to keep them.
It matters not. He will look like a hero. The same way he "won" his Senate seat in Illinois. Dig up dirt and make the opponent look like total crap and keep the eyes off of your own incompetence and leadership abilities.
By preventing terrible legislation by democrats is doing something beneficial for the economy. Robbing from our children to artificially prop up the economy for votes isn't doing anything good for the economy.
Talk to the Hand - let's see, the "dirt" of his opponent made his opponent look bad - Obama didn't have to do a thing. When your ex-wife comes out and tells everyone she didn't want to have group sex and didn't want to go to sex parties - that pretty much sinks your boat! But, of course you'll blame Obama. Do you EVER get tired of stupidity????
Our President is very good and that is what you hate. Get over it! He's President and will help us get out of the mess the GOP has made - again!
Whose plan?
Face it, Hand, the GOP was outsmarted by Obama.
You assumed Romney would win and the whole fiscal cliff fiasco would have been moot. It didn't happen that way. You did this to yourselves.
Instead of whining and continuing to obstruct, act like grownups and compromise. It won't hurt, honest.
Honest to God, the public says they want to see politicans compromise, Republicans go on the talk shows and say they won't compromise. The public says they want taxes to go up on the millionaires, Republicans say they'd sooner see a return to a recession than allow tax rates for the wealthiest to go up. It's scary the Republicans don't seem to care what the voters want, only what their rich donors desire. Republicans don't even try to convince people what they are doing is what's best for the country. It's really scary.
Job1
We have no President. Just a title with a child attached to it.
So the party of personal responsibility, wants to blame the democrats because the majority of the country thinks they are the suckiest Congress ever, bar none. They have the lowest approval numbers ever recorded and they take responsibility for that by blaming democrats and the media, they are pathetic, and the public has acknowleded that, they lost the oval office, seats in the senate, and seats in the house. They can continue to deny the political realty if they wish, but if they do they will lose more seats in 2014, and then thay can blame the media or whatever, maybe they should just blame the voting public, they are the ones that are sending them packing.
rukidding - Just a title with a child attached to it. Clearly a reference to anything you post!
The Fact rukidding47, President Obama is one of the Greatest Presidents in American history. We have to thank God that he won re-election and that worthless Willard Romney was sent home, to never ever run for public office again.
No what I dislike is the fact that he has the wool of your own sheepish nature pulled over your eyes and can't see what the end result is going to be. I know what he talks all sounds touchy feely PC good to you liberal/progressives but the truth is if he were a Republican president using the same "hidden agenda tactics" you would be screaming from the highest mountain.
I know you absolutely love the guy and what you think he stands for is nothing but mmm mmm good and I respect that. It is just a bit misguided and sad from the perspective of those of us who see the resultant end game in a much different light.
Refresh your knowledge of the fall of the Roman Empire and then take a long, hard, unbiased look around you.
Much like letting the richest 1% steal 13 trillion in wealth from the country and try to blame it on the middle class unions. I'm sure that was OK with you.
wonder if KB can define compromise. I think what KB really means is to act like a grown up and give in. Right?
Well Talk I think its a little more complex than the Roman Fiscal Cliff. There was no one defining moment that pushed the Western Empire to fall.
Talk - no clue whatsoever and yet you continue to shout your absurdity at the top of your lungs!
Let me explain something to you Talk to the Hand, you can't make somebody look like crap, they do that on their own merits. Do you think anybody on this blog changes anybody's minds? You think the electorate thinks republicans are crap because I say so or Obama, or anybody else says so, they think that because they see what they see. Fox ran a 24/7/365 smear campaign for four solid years against the president to no avail, people don't but it just because you keep saying it, they watch the actions, as opposed to just buying into the rhetoric. The 47% remarks were effective against Romney but only because they confirmed what people already saw from the republicans for the last 4+ years. The American people are judging republicans on their actions not on anything the president or anybody else says, and they judged Obama on his actions, and not what Fox said. Republicans have decided not to do anything constructive for four years to punish the president, they lost the Oval office, seats in the house, and seats in the senate, based on those actions, not based on any political speak, by democrats, or by republicans. How many times have you heard the president has no record to run on, but he does not legislate, so the fact there was no record was that republicans would not allow it, the public knows how our government works and despite all the rhetoric from the right the American electorate put the blame exactly where it belonged. So now what do republicans do, they double down on doing nothing, and they will rightfully be held responsible, that is a political fact, that is a fact for anybody that has a job, you can talk all day about what a good job you are going to, do but at the end of the day you have not done a damn thing the boss will fire you. Republicans have none nothing of any value for the nation, and the pink slips came, and more will come if they don't shut their mouths and go to work.
WHAT??? NBC did a fine job editting video on Geo Zimmerman. Betcha NBC rolls and settles out of court.
Talk to the Hand
it looks like the GOP put all their eggs in Romney's basket, huh? They bet on Romney winning, didn't they?
Well now that's a lose/lose situation for the Republicans (as you point out), why not do the right thing and take care of at least 98% of Americans?
Bull$hit! You are trying to say 4 years of anti-rich anti-Romney adds didn't work. Romney was ahead in every exit poll on all aspects of the presidency except likeability. Who won that? Obama.
The left is already at work on Rubio, who they think will be the next Republican Nominee.
DB Akron ...
I think Mitt's family (and his own mouth) did more than the Democratic party ever could. Please tell me you read the previous article on quotes. Regarding Mitt's likeability ...
Nobody ever saw Ann's Mitt. Nate had Mittens behind in all of the polls except those taken where people had to answer their landlines.
DB Akron
your problem is that, like Romney, you believed in polls. The only poll that matters is the one on election day. Romney was so convinced that he was going to win that he had his speech and web site ready.
anti-rich Romney ads didn't do it...Romney did it. Romney always had a problem and guess what, it's time to accept the fact that Romney was the worst candidate ever. He was so bad that he lost to a "Kenyan Muslim Communist who wouldn't show his birth certificate." That's how bad of a candidate Romney was.
Stop blaming the media, and blame Romney because it is he who lost the election.
Layton-3733410
...but they did. Ann & Mitt Romney are who they are even if they tried so hard to hide it. But "us people" didn't get fooled by the fakeness.
DB Akron
DB,
Not sure if your soothsayer is the "Great Carnac" or what, but I think it will be Governor Christie, hands down.
(Can't believe I'm talking about 2016).
Ugg.
I need some more egg nog.
Salud
Well Gee DB if it works why was Obama re-elected, Fox who I am told has the biggest viewership by far knocked the president non-stop from the day he was elected in 2008, but nobody bought what they were selling, because it did not fit what they saw with their own eyes. BTW they did not knock Romney for four years, but only since he lasted in the primary, the difference is the rhetoric used against him fit exactly what the electorate saw from him and his party. The public never believed Obama was a Muslim, a Communist, a Marxists, a Socialist, and all manner of ridiculous accusations, they never saw that in his actions, so all that crap fell on deaf ears, as well as it should have. On the other hand Romney's actions matched the accusations used against him. Republicans lost in all three branches of Government and democrats gained and it was not because republicans did not run enough negative adds, or because democrats did, it is simply because of the actions of the people that represent the republican party, the electorate fired them based on their actions, or more probably lack of action.
Consider this, Caesar: The sequester was engineered by the GOP. Now they are backing away from the very plan they made for themselves. It's immature to say the least.
Obama has compromised! Now it's your turn.
Amy... The Democratic Party will take big hits too, by the time the next presidential election rolls around. This will be due to further declines in union job manufacturing, a source of income for the party advertising machinery. Smaller business, with fewer employees will expand as large manufacturers are diminished by overseas cheaper labor costs. Gone are the days when the US possessed all the big manufacturing plants for the world's demand for cars and appliances. Even food production now on large scales is not labor intensive as it was during the golden age of unions. The result will be the labor force, segmented by specialized productivity, won't be able to rely on the political philosophies of , " the Big Two ", Republicans vs. Democrats. Independent political desires will develop like the coffee flavors in Starbucks. The political machines, which are run by union nepotism hiring practices, will be their Tar Pits. They'll be stuck into something which once looked good, which they can't free themselves from. The union power(s) will go from manufacturing to public employee unions, and they are limited by availability of taxes, and the economic overall health or their regional tax base. This is why BOTH the Progressives, and the Ultraconservatives are at a no win situation, and their support base is and will continue to leave them economically. When their funds diminish, their "voice" diminishes.
There is another calendar fact to consider and that is in the internal dynamics of the House. If the House meets before January 3rd, then the Democrats are bound to try for a discharge petition on the Senate bill, and if they get the votes, then the Speaker loses, just days before the new House convenes on January 3rd and votes for its leadership.
It's time for that do-nothing Boehner to go... but I worry his replacement could be even worse.
The republicans stupidly believed they would elect Romney, and never have to confront the present situation. Hell, they didn't even allow Romney to even think about a concession speech the evening of the election. The poor delusional bastards were that sure. That's what all this is about. These dimwitted sons-ah-bitches don't really know whether to shut one eye and fart, or sh^t on themselves, and claim a failed stopper.
Right now, The Boehner is in the same no-win position that Mitt was in during his campaign. If he sides with reasonable Republicans and Democrats and makes a deal that America likes, the Baggers will cut him loose and he loses the Speakership. If he sides with the Baggers, the American public will think even less of the GOP (if that's possible) than they did in November, yet he might keep his job.
If we go over it's time to break out the champagne!
No matter the pain of this self induced Russian Roulette with our economy. The biggest problem is the total dysfunction of our leaders in Washington. The Republican party is out to destroy the economy not only of the USA but the world. How incompetent can the party be. Can any one understand the dangerous and total failure of the GOP. Boehner has got to be the biggest coward as leader. We need a special election before 2014 to get rid of these nut jobs. Right after the nation dismantles the Tea Party.
It would be very hard to dismantle the Tea Party. It's grass roots, you take out one guy, and another takes his place. Instead of Tea Party they should call it drikining party because that's all we do at our meetings.
alan_static....I've always wondered if that was what was being done during those Tea Party meetings! Drinking, making freakishly-large and obnoxious wooden signs, probably ending the meeting with a prayer for the Lord to smite our president and then firing off their guns while they stagger towards their monster trucks.
Heeeee-hawwwww!
Koch money created the TeaParty & without it they are TOAST .
Everyone they supported LOST save for 1 minor candidate & a Shrill-Shrew .
he Kock's tossed 20+ times the money that Mitt spent of his own money...
and ALL of that money went to LIberal TV stations for commercials...
how do I know they are Liberal ? Mitt SAID SO....99% of the MSM is LIBERAL .
As long as the keep handing out money for losers.... they ought to spend some on hiring
a person who can turn them into winners.....but they failed that too !
FTA - "Congress has the ability to fix things at a later date."
This Congress doesn't have the ability to do much of anything. Contaminated as it is with TP's who don't believe in the Federal government or the idea of governing. The markets are tanking. The people are not going to be pleased at all. The TP's are hoping they can somehow shift the blame to Obama despite the fact they have made zero concessions. But that's their plan and the whole ship may go down for their insistence that the game be played by their rules and their rules only. They have no issue with damaging this country and its citizens (even most of the ones who voted for them) in pursuit of the power they so desparetely seek. That has been made crystal clear.
Obama, Pelosi, and Reid made this mess with their super majority. Obama, Pelosi, and Reid either fix it or be hung from the trees in the National Mall for Terrorism. It would be nice to see Liberals swinging from trees - politicians, journalists, and Hollywood Stars who have screwed the US poor and middle class.
Oh don't be ridiculous. You can't be this poorly informed can you? (Well, I guess you can.)
rober34 - you really are clueless, aren't you? Been hanging out with Grover these days? The American Terrorist Party is the GOP with the NRA along for good measure!
Yankee and Seeking.......If they did such a good job, then why did America vote to stop them from having completely control?
PutAmericaFirst - can you say gerrymandering?????? Did you sleep through the last election???There will be fewer in office after 2014!
These GOP Cult members aren't the smart ones. Hopefully, conservatism will continue to die out.
Seeking Sanity, So gerrymandering is your EXCUSE OF THE DAY for the "we got shellacked" that occurred in November, 2010 .... a date that occurred BEFORE any new gerrymandering could have occurred ???
I think you need to go home so you can play with your mental blocks.
PutAmericaFirst
You don't have a leg to stand on...
the GOP GAVE the US POTUS Election to a
COMMUNIST
Nazi
Kenyan
Muslim
Community Organizer
Black man
who NEVER ONCE held a real job
YOU AND your GOP Party GAVE IT TO HIM and disgraced the nation you claim to care so much about
by not mounting a practical campagin & by not running the best candidate...
YOU sold AMERICA OUT
You, by your of definition & estimation
ARE THE failure that sent this country into the morass .
Because YOU claimed to have the power & numbers to get "the job done"
...no jobs, no "DONE" & no viability for a party that talks BIG & shirks their responsibility !
Nothing. Nothing happens. At least not right away. The IRS is even holding back on the new withholding tables. This is just more political madness from the repukes. Every decent poll shows the public sick of them and their games. And getting angrier by the day.
That is true....nothing happens. I wish the dems would actually try to negotiate. Of course, since when have they ever cared about doing the right thing for the country. Robbing from our children to buy votes is disgusting.
PutAmericaFirst, please educate yourself on the history of the sequester before making erroneous comments.
Put EDUCATION first.
PutAmericaFirst - the disgusting thing here is YOU! You spout the GOP talking points without knowing anything you are saying.
The President tried to compromise with Boehner but Boehner couldn't get his party to support anything. All they want is to make sure the top 1% is taken care of - to hell with everyone else. After all, they've signed their loyalty pledges to Norquist (and you're okay with that????).
Kaybee....Not sure what you are referring to.
Seeking....You blame me for spouting talking points then turn around and spout talking points. Hypocritical at all. At least my post was my own opinion. Republicans have compromised far more than Obama on this. Just look at the facts.
Why does the 47% that voted for Willard, work so hard to protect the top 1 to 2% that could care less for them.
The 47% didn't vote for Willard. They overwhelmingly voted for Obama. The middle class Americans voted for Willard because they pay for the 47%. It is about responsible government instead of getting even.
PutAmericaFirst - the vast majority of the middle class voted for President Obama - couldn't stand the smell of Mitt!
The FACTS - President Obama has compromised again and again and the REpublicans in Congress are still trying to obstruct him every chance they get. They never wise up!
Oh, and the more highly educated a person is, the more likely they were to vote for President Obama!
I would not want to be John Boehner right now for all the tea in China! He's in a no-win situation...either he plays the cowardly leader and does whatever the Grover Norquist kids on the lunatic fringe tell him to do, and he keeps his job as Speaker of the Tea House, and we as a nation, with the world soon to follow, plunge into another recession....OR.....he gets a backbone, he demands as the leader of his party in the House that they vote to do what over 60% of the American voters want them to do, and that's increase taxes on the wealthy while extending the Bush tax cuts for the middle class, in conjunction with spending cuts on worthless $hit like two unfunded wars, and he loses his leadership of the House, but will forever be remembered as the man who kept us from the brink of economic disaster.
Let's see....keep your seat over a House that has an approval rating in the single digits....or be a bold leader who does the right thing and lose your seat of power. The clock is ticking, Johnny!! Who do you love more...America, or yourself?
Nope you are wrong. 47% did vote for Willard. and those same 47% are trying to protect the top 2%. The responsible 51% plus voted for President Obama.
Folks - the reality is WE need this... but no one is willing to admit it! Both sides of the aisle know it but want to blame the other. We need to have 100% of the taxpayers's attention shifted from looking only at 2 to 5% of the taxpayers as the "solution" to the Government's excessive spending addiction. Our Gov't addiction to spending our monies for their power positions needs to come to an end and true fiscal mgmt to begin. Wake up.,.. we are already off the cliff... the question is when will we land and how hard will the landing be? Everyone will have to go through some tough financial decisions...those making money, those receiving gov't monies etc.... get emotions out of your vision and you will see the facts.
Put America Last.
You exhibit the values that Republicans cherish most: stupidity, extreme gullibility, total detachment from reality and blatant dishonesty.
Thank you for showing everyone these qualities.
Put Reid & Boehner in front of the cliff and push. What a couple of hypocrite/creeps. Of course they don't want to raise taxes. That would increase their taxes. Huh Harry. I use to live in Nevada and work with some of your children I know what your all about. Both of them should retire. Boehner with some bronzer and Harry because he's too old (and by the way Harry, your not as gentle as you like to make people think). Go Home!
I am afraid that my fellow citizens who support the GOP may have to face the fact this is not the GOP party of 20 years ago it is the GOP party of today which has NO room for COMPROMISE and if you dare try to be reasonable your are a RHINO...Shame who would want o run for office in that environment accept those on the fringe. Peace, Love, to all my fellow Americans regardless of political affiliation!!
What a bunch of bull. I bust my @ss and our family is still considered poverty level. I opt not to take food stamps but I might have to now. Such BS that the wealthy get a break while the working poor continue to do whatever they can to make means. A four year college degree and a decent job are still not enough in this economy. Why do they have to mess with the child tax credit and earned income credit? There are people who make millions/billions and continue to make even more because they get "bonuses" just for being wealthy.
Anyone want to buy a kidney? ;)
Sarah.....That is what the republicans want to change. Their idea is to fix the economy, not just get even with the rich.
Well everything I have heard states that there's a group of wealthy individuals who would not see a tax increase. People making triple figures and beyond. That is unfair.
PutAmericaFirst - since a larger number of Democrats are in the top 1% than Repubicans your post - as usual - is totally stupid. No one wants to "get even with the rich." Even the top 1%ers say their taxes should be raised - Republicans as well as Democrats.
You really should get a clue before you post. You continue to look idiotic!
Seeking....You post doesn't have any relevance to the subject here. Can you please put together a rational thought.
Sarah...That is true, but it isn't just a group of wealthy people. It is the republican philosophy. Until government is responsible and efficient giving more money to them isn't helpful.
Even Obama also agrees that raising taxes harms the economy.
PutAmerica - the fact that you aren't capable of thinking doesn't make my thoughts less rational - just makes you incapable. See how that works!
Sara why do you think you should get a child tax credit in the first place? My mom and dad didnt, now as I approach retirement age and paid s/s all my working life, and not get near what I should because the dimowits took soscial security out of a private fund and into a general fund makes me think everytime you do your taxes they take money which is mine to pay you and hell I am not even your kids father, why should you get it period go find a better job or I quess you can stay a snow cow forever
This whole thing is a bunch of crap!!! OH we've decided to come together at the last hour and put in a temporary solution!!!!! We've saved the day!!!!! Aren't your elected officials just great! BARF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its happened over and over and over again during this past 4 years.
I say let's go over the cliff, it will be great to see some other people pay some taxes to the Government other than the rich!!!
The rich have been carrying this country as it is. No accounting from the liberals having to pay nothing than complain about the rich. Seems like the Democrats have always been unaccountable for everything they screw up and then blame the Republicans and everyone else to throw the failure off of them. This government would run a lot smoother if the Democrats would accept what they do or don't do and move on to the next thing. The Republicans are far from perfect but at least they try even though they might fail. It is about time the Democrats become RESPONSIBLE, REALISTIC and learn to meet the Republicans half way and then both think about the citizens of this country. They both need to stop being selfish and think of only themselves and their financial supporters. Money is the main problem in this game. Something must be done about this and the politicians getting rich and us getting poorer.
Great post, to bad the Liberals won't understand it!!
Fuzzy - what a STUPID post and even one most high ranking Republicans are backing off. As many liberals pay taxes as Republicans - maybe more. You're so out of touch with reality you're sticking to that old whine? It shows you don't have a clue but keep it up. I'm sure it makes you feel better. You look utterly stupid but you, I'm sure, feel better!
Well look here it is one of Feisty's zombies calling someone else's post stupid, guess you don't proof read yours before you post, talk about Stupid!!!
iowaretiree - proofread the posts and they're fine. Yours however, not so good!
At last the welfare will end for the rich and they will carry their weight. Hell, under Ike they were paying a lot more.
SeekingSanity- Your ignorance is bliss!
Look at the pot calling the kettle black. Typical liberal response when they have nothing worthwhile to refute the truth. Liberal ignorance at its best. Why can't liberals comment with common sense instead of putting down other peoples comments that don't measure up to the liberal uneducated ignorance. Liberals have yet to say anything worthwhile to solve the problem where as everyone else is trying to comment with a solution. America has truly gone to HELL since Obama has divided us up into the socialist liberals= problem and everyone else = solution. It seems like the liberals want to have the government control their lives since they are too lazy and uneducated as well as no common sense to better their own life. he proof is all around us as to the direction Obama has been taking this country. One world government, one world religion and Obama is a closet Muslim with their misguided view in his mind. America is in trouble and the libs are the major supporters aiding in the down fall of all of us.
Fuzzy-0457
Calling BS on that one! Fox - Rove - Kochs - Adelson have been trying to take this country to their personal version of HELL for 4 years. The Democrats voted and stood up to their BS and are working to get this country back to the thinking, educated people they can be rather than the drones and puppets that Fox & Co want them to be.
Let me guess, you still want the President's birth certificate as well?
Layton-3733410- You are just another ignorant liberal that likes to put others down when they don't think as asinine, warped, delusional, uneducated, and out of touch from reality as you. You have yet to say anything that is factual or has any substance or truth that would make a positive influence on anyone. This is the problem with half the country, is that all you people do is project a negative influence and say anything detrimental to bettering America. You people want America to fall to the government and have them buy you people off and support the government as long as they give you Welfare, Food Stamps, entitlements and have them tell you how to live. And also you get an Obama cell phone. Get a life and move to Russia, Iran or somewhere that controls you people. We will stay and fight for our freedom and rights as well as for our children and grand children. Ignorance is bliss with liberals!
Fuzzy ...
Reading comprehension not your bag, eh?
Thanks for the insult Panda boy. From what I've read, they are some of the stupiest creatures on the face of the earth. Poor things don't even know how to breed without help.
Fuzzy-0457
Let's break this down:
This is what YOU are doing.
It's called 'projection'.
This is what Faux and Rush does to it's listeners.
All of that is propaganda from the Right Wing Media.
Please post the sources where you heard this.
Free yourself, Fuzzy.
Free yourself from the chains of Faux/Rush propaganda.
They are using you, Fuzzy.
Start the New Year out right by turning off the BS.
You will be a better person for it.
Salud
The proof is in the Unemployment at 23 million, Welfare has tripled, Food Stamps at 47 million and all of these keep going up. Don't forget about the deficit at over 16 trillion and climbing. The highest of all presidencies in history. I feel for you pathetic losers who are lost sheep supporting Obama who show through history is the worst President ever, even worst than Jimmy Carter. It is also Pathetic you people are delusional from Reality and cannot see what is happening to our country. Half of America is now socialist and have no idea what that means. They are just followers of others that know even less. And I have yet to see any factual rebuttal from one of you libs. Only pathetic verbiages that amounts to nothing substantial or factual about anything. Only criticizing what was written. All you libs are doing is reinforcing about your lack of knowledge and a low IQ and education. Waiting for another ignorant rant!
Fuzzy Pandamonium,
You don't post any facts. You just post your personal opinions which are based on . . . . God only knows! State a fact and a source. I'm sure any one of us would love to "discuss" it with you.
I guess you can't read the facts are there, try again .
"Obama, Pelosi, and Reid made this mess with their super majority. Obama, Pelosi, and Reid either fix it or be hung from the trees in the National Mall for Terrorism. It would be nice to see Liberals swinging from trees - politicians, journalists, and Hollywood Stars who have screwed the US poor and middle class."
Didn't we just have an election in which the American people sided with the President? And why the death threats? Why the hate? Especially when those being railed at are not the ones who created the Great Recession. Remind me, how did the President and the Democrats let the Middle Class down? These questions are rhetorical. You may look that word up, if you wish. The answers are, as the saying goes, self evident. I do wonder, however, how solutions can ever be had when compromise is considered betrayal and letting the President "Win" is as acceptable as teaching evolution in a Texas school.
Oh, and those a**hats have no idea what "middle class" means. Hell, $40K would be great. I'd consider myself wealthy then. The politicians truly have no idea what it means to be part of the working poor. I have no extras: no cell phone plan, no cable t.v., one car, we don't eat out, and we still struggle to make ends meet. We pay our mortgage every month and the extra from my paycheck goes to feed my family. A tax return helps us get by throughout the year and the way it's looking now, well ... it's not good. Shame, shame on the greedy wealthy for being at the head of this plan which will gravely affect the poor/middle class. They have NO idea what it's like to be in my shoes and they don't care as long as their stocks do well and their $$ keeps flowing in. BS!!!
Compelling tale, and yet you have a Computer and access to the internet.
What kind of education do you have? Thinging I was wondering that too!
Never knew that in some places there is free public WIFI and that there are programs for those with school aged children to have a computer in their home free of charge (Except to the Taxpayers). The Internet is a wonder of information.
How silly I am paying for things all my life, going without when there were other priorities when I could have been getting them for free!
fatone....are you saying you believe the hype that a college degree somehow makes you a better, more productive, harder-working employee, deserving of a large salary? That those who don't have the means to go to college should be passed over for higher-paying jobs, even when they have past work experience that proves they are likely to be excellent employees with just a small amount of on-the-job training? You sound a bit too judgmental to me. If we could go back to those days when those with prior work experience get the jobs over the wet-behind-the-ears college grads who have done nothing but go to school their entire life, and are still an unproven commodity, that would be the way to go. And colleges would have to start cutting tuitions when they begin losing applicants.
Ahhhhhhh make 3 figures, but not over the 250k mark the president wants to filet! I have a AS in culinary arts, but realized early on that no personal life (resturant owner) wasnt for me. Im a Lead Network engineer for a global corp. So no I dont think people need college in their field to succeed, but it does take a lot of work. I merely wondered what she was communicating on since most people I know that are that poor dont have computers never mind internet access.
Shesafatone-
I actually have seen a street-person with a smart phone.
I think a college degree is extremely important now more than ever. Employers want educated employees as it makes them a better companies and more profitable.
Glad you found your calling.
Bet you are a good chef around the house as well.
Anyways, all this is moot, as the Bush Tax cuts will expire, and in the next congress, the Middle Class and the Poor will get the Bush Tax cuts back, and people who are blessed with higher incomes, who have been getting the tax cuts for 10 years now, will have to pay a little more.
Salud
It's simple, the temporary tax rates should be extended for 2 years for ALL Americans. Done. Happy New Year!
That could be a temporary solution, but we need a more permanent solution. We need both parties to come together and create a plan to solve our problems.
I totally agree. My point is it doesn't matter if we raise taxes on some or all, it does nothing to control the federal government spending problem. So why give the government more money right now to waste. Keep rates as they are for all and fix the spending problem.
The only reason the Democrats want to tax the higher income people is to continue to divide this country. Bringing in this small amount of revenue does nothing to fix the problem, and the Democrats know this. It's a political talking point Democrats are using to further divide people.
The conversation should be on spending cuts, and government waste, but it never is because MSNBC and others in the media can't find a fun catch phrase like 'fiscal cliff' to give spending cuts a tag line that everyone can understand.
Congress and the Senate should all be replaced. Let's start from scratch. Send them all home!
*U.S. HOUSE SAID TO PLAN 6:30 P.M. SESSION ON DEC. 30
At 6:40pm they recess. The Boehner is buying at the tavern.
Why don't we just go over the cliff so that we can learn the hard way to tighten our belts and pay our debts. We might even learn new and innovative ways to live within our means. A lean government is better that a loan loaded government. Let's pay our debt down!
amen to that brother Joe!
If we do we should fire every Senator and Congressman and start all over. I say Damn them. They are all puppets of Corporate America and 1 %'ers to boot. We must be all fools to think they would actually represent us the 99%.
You are correct prayer warrior,the whole bunch on both sides need to be fired and take the president with them when they leave town. Not a one of them gives a crap about this country.All they want is what they can cram in their own pockets. Proof of that is that when they do die off or leave they are super rich. We all work our jobs for 30 years or so and when we leave we get a few crumbs to live on.They are rich. I say cut their wages in half,cut out all their perks,and then take a look at how many would serve.We should have term limits ,that way their would not be careear politicans and hence no grand golden retirement packs,that would save a bunch.Ask one of them about term limits and watch them squirm they dont want to leave the fat gravy train.
If we go over the fiscal cliff it will be entirely the fault of the Republican Congress. So far Obama made a proposal and Boehner made a counter offer. Obama responded by moving from a tax increase for those making $250K or more to those making $400K and a small decrease in Social Security.
Then Boehner and the Republican Congress walked out.