Congress needs to return and complete legislation on:

2012 Farm Bill – if not passed will cause milk prices to double to about $7 per gallon
Doc Fix – If not passed cuts already low Medicare payments to doctors by 27%
Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) – will increase taxes on 80 million to 100 million people
Violence Against Women Act – Delayed because Republicans do not want it to include Indian reservations

Boehner has said he would give a 48 hours’ notice before recalling members of Congress to Washington, meaning the earliest the House might return would be Saturday

I'd suggest he hurry. If he hasn't realized, half of the country is buried in snow and getting a flight back might be a little dicey. If he doesn't, the whole cliff thing is going to be one big black eye for Boehner!

Heck of a job, Party of No.

right on fiesty, he dosent have enough votes to pass and if he does he doesnt have enough votes to keep his speakership.

Ugh, not all you fools again... Up for 5 minutes and the stupidity starts flying as usual

What, the fiscal cliff apocalyptic death plunge is almost here?

Tell me again how QE3 is going...

http://money.msn.com/top-stocks/post.aspx?post=3cce11bc-7251-4632-acc2-b8dbb1acb519

Can't blame me... I voted against all incumbents.

Compromise is give and take and neither side is doing it. They are simply blaming each other. I hold them all responsible. However, the fiscal "cliff" is the most non-partisan budget we have put forth in decades. Everyone pays, everything gets cut.

The tax part is not the big deal. We can afford the tax increases. It's the spending cuts that are so scary. Image factories and businesses around the country shutting down because the fiscal cliff is removing $600b from our economy. Do you or anyone you know work for the military or defense contractors, or receive aid from the VA? How much in state funding will vanish? How many firemen and policemen and teachers will be laid off? And in turn, how much will these economic lay offs reduce revenues, and raise unemployment costs, and make the deficit worse?

What they ought to do is make an agreement only on the spending portion. That wouldn't violate the Grover pledge, and it would make the corporate GOP wing happy. In fact, that would be the best medicine according to the 1990s model. Let spending stay about constant, raise the taxes, and wait for a balanced budget. No layoffs, no factory shutdowns, we just cough up 3% more of our salaries each month. We can stand that.

PutAmericaFirst

and exactly what deal was that???? You mean the one that cuts Medicare and SS and hurts the middle class? That compromise? or one that allows the GOP to keep their corporate tax credits for shipping jobs to other countries?

T-REX-847863

Yes, it's time for another installment of the blame game live from the Whitehouse.

=======================================

...and yet not a word about Congress or even how Washington has worked for the last 30-40 years concerning spending and taxes and I'm supposed to take your crocodile teared presentation about kids, grand kids and great grand kids seriously? You run with that.

@putamericafirst, it was Boehner that walked away from the 4 trillion dollar debt ceiling deal, not Obama.

Boehner has walked away a second time from Obama.

Republicans need to get their act together.

Generally speaking for those of us on the outside looking in, America’s love affair with sclerotic politics is met with snide snickers but at this point it has moved into the realm of O-Crap, they don’t give a crap.

It is clear to me that this is a tactical ploy by Republicans. After Jan. 1, any votes taken to modify tax rates would be a vote for "lower taxes", since tax rates will have already gone up automatically. The ultra-conservatives can then vote for such a bill. The net effect would be exactly the same, but it sounds better to be lowering taxes than it does to be raising them. That's the kind of world the GOP lives in right now: "Image is everything". It's nuts; so are they.

This is all a b.s. sideshow act: The act will carry out with them skidding in sidways at the 11th hour with a 'plan'. Breaking News! will read that the plan will continue tax rates at current levels for a 'limited period' with many hazy, obscure details no one understands or can communicate. The stock market will soar on the news and we'll start the merry New Year with such glee. That is, until the next dramatic kaka faux news comes forth to mesmerize the masses and alter their perceptions to the whim of those in control of our lives & minds.

Does everyone not see that this is not an income problem but a spending problem? Raising taxes as proposed by President Obama will pay for 4 days of the government and does absolutely nothing to alleviate our debt crisis. I'm in favor of raising taxes on EVERYONE but not without spending cuts.

Actually NONE of them are leaders. This is more typical BS from Washington. They all need to be given a nice little pink slip so We The People can run it.

No Feisty,

I already know that sadly, you don't care for much.

I pray that as inept as the government has been.. the people of this country will be protected from further harm.

Amid the standoff, President Barack Obama called Reid and Boehner (along with House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate GOP Leader Mitch McConnell) late Wednesday from Hawaii. The president is traveling back to the White House on Thursday following his brief family vacation.

The president is not in Washington either folks...it's funny how we only read the parts of the story that benefit our argument...but it's Boehner's fault because he is not in Washington...I love the logic.

Boehner's inability to get a consensus in his own party due to the tea party revolt is the cause of all of this.

That's part of the problem; he can't get the TP on board with any sort of compromise. But his other problem is not talking to the house Democrats as Boehner is intent on passing a bill with only republican votes to 'prove' his leadership. Failed leadership, failed agenda but nobody on the right will admit it....

Stop their paychecks. They, all of them do not deserve them if they can not work this out.

These clowns do no understand that when interest rates turn against us our economy will implode and nobody will ever remember who was Speaker of the House when historians write about the day our economy died during Obama's 2nd term.

Reid blames Boehner?!? I spit my coffee on my screen over that one. This coming from the laziest, out of touch person in Washington? That's rich..... Bottom line, Reid is part of the problem, why should we listen to him? (Well except for the paid trolls on this thread....They're parroting their Masters, just like good little trolls.)

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

What a miserable life you must lead.

Is this the part where I'm supposed to give a @!$%# what you believe? lol

If so, EPIC FAIL!

You obviously give a @!$%# or you would not have responded. You wield the word "epic" as you do the word "racist"...completely draining its content and meaning.

If the "Fiscal Cliff" is that important to shove through, why didn't Both Political parties of Congress, and the President go on long vacations?---It is symbolic that our Pres. came back early from Hawaii--that is all that it is---this should have been resolved long ago---

No one realistically in Congress, or the WH cares about our future, our money, and our eventually poor economic lives. They're all in a different financial category--should they care?

Harry Reid as the Representative of Nevada?. That says it all--Nothing will get done--but just blowing words--Words mean nothing. Try manning up and take some action--this will be a severe blow to United States Citizens if either Boehner or President Obama gets their way---watch your income, and quality of life dwindle--everyone, including the poor.

Deep Recession ahead, and everything including your toothpaste will be a separate tax. Going to the movies will be a separate tax--Taxed to death. Literally.

Erno3

Does everyone not see that this is not an income problem but a spending problem? Raising taxes as proposed by President Obama will pay for 4 days of the government and does absolutely nothing to alleviate our debt crisis. I'm in favor of raising taxes on EVERYONE but not without spending cuts.

==========

Well, if $80 Billion only funds the Gov for 4 days as seems to be the highlight reel talking point nowadays, so therefore it is 'pittens' in the bigger picture...could someone please overlay this thinking with what was the conventional GOP talking point during the election that taking away a couple hundred million away from Planned Parenthood and PBS was somehow step #1 on our way to fiscal sanity?

I mean by that thinking defunding them would pay for what...2 maybe 3 seconds of the Government. Why bother, right?

The President is in DC, the Senate is in DC, while Boehner & Co continue to be MIA!

Howgreen - The President IS in DC - he returned from Hawaii for negotiations - now who doesn't have a clue????

But why did the President have to cut his vacation short? Haven't we been told by his supporters that he is constantly in contact whenever he travels? I mean, even if he had to sign a bill hasn't he used the autopen before?

For the second time, President Obama has authorized the use of his autopen to sign a bill into law in his absence.

From Bali in Indonesia, where he's holding talks with Asian/Pacific leaders, Mr. Obama consented that his name be affixed by robotic device to an appropriations bill to fund a number of government departments and agencies through the end of the fiscal year.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57327846-503544/obama-uses-autopen-again-to-sign-bill-into-law/

Kind of reminds me of John McCain rushing back to Washington in 2008.

What Harry Reid forgot to mention is that the House has passed nearly 300 Bills and waiting for the Senate to bring to floor ANY of these Bills for a vote. If the Democrats don't like the Bills then vote them down, send back to the House with recommendations, and Boehner can have the House discuss changes. But Boehner is stuck when he passes Bills and the Senate puts them in a drawer and won't even vote on them.

But I DO agree with GreatlyEntitled in that ALL currently in Congress should be given a pink slip. I am a big supporter of term limits because having politicians in office for decades they lose the concept of what "real life" is. We should vote EVERYBODY out of office in the next election (BOTH PARTIES!!) and bring some people to D.C. that knows the difference between a public statement and an income statement.

Boehner has been in office since 1991 (over 20 years) and Reid has been in office since 1987 (25 years) and THIS is the CRAP that we get!! But only ourselves to blame - we as citizens keep voting in the same "dead wood" and then get mad that nothing gets done. Time to clean house. Time to get rid of EVERYBODY in D.C. and start over.

ewent

Conservatives make me laugh

Libs make me vomit

The buck stops at the President.

C'mon people, it's all a game as in previous years.

They will continue the back and forth until the last minute and pass a bill that's been written for months now. They are following a script to play the voters.

ewent

What a bunch of sorry ass neocons...all conning the rest of the country by always shifting the focus away from how much of MY tax dollars were handed to TX, WY, AZ, TN, KY and the rest of the trough feeder states who live off federal taxes instead of their state taxes.

...and yet you want bigger government. Counter productive dont you think?

54 stupid posts by a bunch of stupid people!!!! Whose fault is this? YOURS!!! You kept voting all this lying, lazy crooks into office how many times? You are getting what you paid for!!! Americans are losers. WDC pigs know exactly what, when, why and who. They are grandstanding to make it look like they are doing something. This way, they can blame the other guy for things not getting done. I posted the other day that for my christmas wish, that congress should burn in hell. If those idiots would get rid of foreign aide, the budget would darn near balance. They should take care of the seniors and the idiots who voted for them. We do not need obamacare, planned parenthood and abuse of women programs. Those are stupid and a waste of money.

And all you idiots posting here should have been writting and calling your congress crooks. But no, you sit here and whine. But then again, when more than half the country did not want obamacare, your congress said screw america, we will bleed them dry.

Those 300 bills from the House were all to savage SS, Medicare and Medicaid in favor of creating a slush fun that would end up paying for a tax cut. Who's fooling whom? If the only thing Republicans can cut spending on are progams that are bought and paid for, how isn't that extortion of payroll deductions?

When, not if, they go after your 401Ks and start taxing those trillions just laying in wait of GOP trough feeders who salivate over any program our payroll deductions pay for, let's see how the big mouths with the criticisms will be laughing up their sleeves then.

So the low IQ voters now get what they deserve. Unfortunately, those of us who actually looked at and understood the ramification of another failed Oblama administration, also get what you deserve.

Wouldn't it be More Productive if Our Elected Leaders Started Working Together as AMERICANS for AMERICANS and AMERICA, instead of just bickering, stalling and posturing for the next election as democrats and republicans! The American People have had it with this unproductive BS! The way that both parties having been operating for years just stinks! Neither party has really been looking out for the best interests of the US Citizens who elect them and who they're supposed to represent.

Both parties have sold out the bulk of the American citizens, who they're supposed to represent, by allowing the "out-sourcing" floodgates to open wider and wider without taking any sensible measures to stem the tide.

It shouldn't be all about Democrats or Republicans! It should be about Americans, especially our elected officials, doing the right thing for our country and its citizens. All the single-minded, left versus right, ideological one dimensional bull has got to go!

Both parties need to start working together and actually start doing something to fix the real problems in our country like "out-sourcing", illegal immigration, the out of control costs of health care insurance and our reliance on foreign fuel. If they don't start working together and actually start making progress by the next election, American citizens should run a nation-wide campaign to vote out all incumbents regardless of party to send the message.

And yes - I'm Angry - As are most American Citizens right now!

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Where the hell is the Weeper of the House?

Is he still recovering from the night of "binge drinking with the good Mormon Mike Crapo?

This isn't a game!!!

Where is Obama oh ya he is off spending a few million on his vacation. Now after his return flight of 1.8 Million and then have to fly his family back at a cost of hundred of thousands too. I would be drinking too if I had to deal with is greedy spending sprees.

Oh and you don't think that Reid's bantering is not the blame game??

You do realize that there is a 4.7% increase on incomes above 200/250K built into Obama Care due to kick in this Monday??

So Obama got his 4.6% increase plus .1% and now is pushing another 4.6% increase too.

39.7% to 1 million and 44.3% above 1 million sounds reasonable but DEMs won't pass it. Typical DEMs my way or the highway BS.

LiberalsAreTheWorst

The Buck stops at the President.

====================

Cute talking point, even one used by the President, but not really true.

At the end of the day, you can't have the "3 co-equal branches of Government" statement but yet say the buck stops at the President.

If the Presidency is 'above' the other Branches, you can have that statement. If is not above the other Branches, you cannot.

Liberals may be the worst in your opinion, but 'Conservatives' and common sense don't exactly seem to be peas on the same pod either.

Stop! the blame game rhetoric. I am so sick and tired of those who blame one side. Hellooooooooo for 3 years the Left had control of both houses, why didn't they take care of this problem when they had the chance instead of waiting until the last minute. Harry Reid is part of this problem and I for one am outraged that this Government both sides are playing politics with peoples lives. Harry Reid has so many bills on his desk and he refuses to pass them because its the GOP's, what ever happend to compromise Harry Reid? Obama talks about working together and yet this President refused to tell Harry Reid to knock it off. To me a true leader is were a President does not show any favorites & goes and tells his own side off.

In the meantime, it appears that Thursday might be a lost day for negotiations. Obama landed in Washington around midday...

I will buy Fiesty a clock...midday in Washington...well it's only noon on Thursday there right now...Fiesty...and ignorant.

Irish - all you ever do is hunt Feisty and I down to post insults - it's all you have. IF you could actually read and comprehend, you would know I have posted many facts. You don't like them but they are facts. No go away child, you're tiring!

hijack - no the low information voters put Boehner back in. My guess is that includes you who probably voted for every Republican you could - knowing full well they don't give a damn about the country - just their oath to Grover Norquist and their damned guns. You must be SOOOOO proud!

It's all their faults... from the White house, Senate and the House... Worst government ever... I would hate to be President Obama that gets to inhert this ecomony and mess... Record debt, deficts, food stamps, spending, etc., etc., etc. Just wait for inflation to hit... They can only print money for so long and I bet they have reached that point. The cliff is the best thing... it actual cuts spending from our bloated government. Maybe they will quit spending for a change.. I have no idea why our government can't perform its functions on 2.5 trillion dollars... Our population hasn't grown that much in the past 10 years. Look if we can afford to put all of population of Canada and Australia on food stamps, then I'm sure we can cut a little.

Apparently redjoe you can't read either. He came back to Washington today..."In the meantime, it appears that Thursday might be a lost day for negotiations. Obama landed in Washington around midday, but most House members remain in their districts."

Thursday is a LOST DAY FOR NEGOTIATIONS!!!! I bet that is Bush's fault...not President Obama's. mmmmm Koolaid!

ewent

Kornfed...Of course neocons vomit....Most overfed, overindulged, overstuffed asses do

At least I earn my overindulgence. Get off my teet and pull your own overweight ass for a change.

The House passed a bill continuing the Bush/Obama tax cut in August. Reid won't even talk about it. What the Republicans were offering even with Plan "B" is to cut the increase in debt. The fiscal cliff Is on Reid's shoulders, not the Republicans.

TO: LiberalsAreTheWorst who wrote:

"The buck stops at the President."

EXCEPT when it comes to George "Curveball" Bush or any other Republican, then "The buck stops with Congress" or, may as well say, just blame the Democrats for everything because when Republicans are in charge we KNOW everything, absolutely everything, is going to get f-ed up!

hey ho "Seeking Sanity"....I love how the left has to resort to name calling for everything!

BTW the program you are refering to is called Lifeline, and was established in 1984 and subsidized landline phone service for low income Americans, it is funded by government collected telecomminications fees and paid for by consumers.

In 2008, the program was expanded (Obamaphone addition) to support cell phones (definately not a needed addition to the already existing program) and the cost has quickly escalated from $772 million in 2008 to $1.6 billion in 2011.

As to the communist manifesto....read it....

TO: redjoe who wrote:

"... I bet that is Bush's fault..."

Couldn't be.

Republicans declared George "Curveball" Bush of being too incompetent to be held "responsible" for anything.

Ewent: But if the Senate doesn't like the House Bills then vote them down and send back to the House. But what the Senate is doing is acting like a little child saying "if you don't agree with me then I am not talking to you any more". That's childish. Our government was set up for discussion and compromise. When the Senate (and president) won't even TALK with Republicans there is not much we can do.

TALK with us. Don't just say "no, it is not what I want". Take what the Republicans proposed in a House Bill, vote it down, and tell us what your suggestions are. Amazing how liberals love to say Republicans are the Party of "No" but it was the Democrats that started saying "No" in 2006 and have not changed since but the difference is when Republicans say "No" we say "because of ......." telling you WHY and what we want to change. Democrats just say "No", don't even allow a vote, then don't give us an alternative suggestion. Why can't the Democrats and the president actually come out with a PROPOSAL?!?!?

But I am not really surprised. Democrats haven't come up with even a BUDGET in the last 4 years - why would we expect them to have a suggestion or idea either.........

Liberals complain about the Bush tax cuts causing the nations fiscal problems, and now liberals are complaining because they are about to expire. You can't win with liberals, everything is the fault of someone else, and everyone else should pay for what they want for free. Liberals don't complain when Harry Reid does nothing, it is only the fault of Republicans. How convenient for liberals to never be at fault for anything, they have never even played a role in any problem, and yet Democrats have voted against every balanced budget amendment ever introduced in Congress. Fiscal sanity amongst liberals, no such thing.

Evidently "liberal" = lemming. Your lives would be better if you didn't constantly go sailing of the CNN and MSNBC cliff of lies and twisted "truth."

The House was in place pre-Christmas while Reid and company were out of town. Reid and company didn't come back to play at grownup games, they came back to try and make the House look bad. It's not working for those of us who are keeping up. O and the dems and the Republicans have turned this into the most disfunctional country ever. No one in Washington is without blame.

Um - Let's see. The House wants a Bill that only taxes those making above $1,000,000 (means that about 99% of americans will NOT see their taxes go up) a year and a cogent approach to out-of-control spending. Reid and Obama etc. wants to tax EVERYONE making more than $250,000 a year and continue spending, thus putting the next 3 generations of our children in debt, worsening our credit, and all but ensuring a stagnant economy. Yet, there are people on this blog kisssing Reids ass and bad-mouthing the house secondary to more propaganda liberal carp from a biased media outlet. Feisty - How do YOU pronounce M O R O N??? Bobthe Plumber - maybe you can help Feisty out. NEWSFLASH - Bush has NOT been President for over 4 years, and the only folks that don't realize this are people with Alzeimers, Dementia, or nothing between their ears. Please, do your friggin math on everything from unemployment, to rate of GNP growth, to deficit, to national debt, to spending on wars, bloated government, and bail-outs. You need to offer your "plumber" services to a bunch of folks that are sorely in need of having their brains plumbed out!

TO: Howgreen68 who wrote:

"The President is not in DC? He's in Hawaii. Its obvious you don't have a clue!"

lol

Don't you just love it when an idiot makes an ever bigger fool of himself?

Reid is so funny...accusing Beohner of the same thing he's done for the last 4 years. As much as liberals complain about Beohner, Reid has squashed bill after bill after bill refusing to let house bills come up for a vote.

Now, he calls Beohner a dictator...Pot, meet kettle.

ProBusiness. You are correct.

Let’s sweep away the silliest misinterpretation first – that during their brief majority, Republicans have prevented blue-state congressmen from bringing home their share of federal spending.

The scraps of pork that clutter the federal budget each year, infuriating as they are, are not large on the massive scale of total federal spending. A Nevada congressman will undoubtedly brag about that $25,000 mariachi program that Congress just funded in one of his local schools, but it will not change Nevada’s ratio of spending to taxes. Even a military base, usually considered the biggest, juiciest pork chop that a state can hope for, doesn’t change the spending-to-tax ratio more than a penny in a medium-sized state.

Spending does lean red, but the reason is demographic, not political. Most federal money is spent on retirees, especially Social Security and Medicare. And of course the elderly have been moving south and west for years. Every large blue state saw its elderly population depleted during the late 1990s. As might be expected, red Florida and Arizona took in many of the elderly, but they weren’t alone. Almost every Mountain and Southern state expanded its elderly population.

Despite the red dominance of retirement destinations, the spending tilt toward red states isn’t extreme. The ten states where Uncle Sam spent the least money per capita in 2003 include three solid reds -- Utah, Georgia and Indiana; two solid blues – New Jersey and Illinois; and five battleground states -- one barely red, Nevada and four barely blue, New Hampshire, Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin.

Which brings us to the real culprit: high blue-state income taxes. States with the highest incomes per capita -- and they’re all solid blue -- pay much higher federal taxes per capita. An income of $132,000 in San Francisco buys the same standard of living as $71,000 in Phoenix, but when it’s time to fill out the 1040, the San Francisco family pays 17.3 percent of its income in federal income taxes. That’s $22,812, almost triple the national median. Meanwhile, the Phoenix family pays $7,576, about $400 less than the median. A similar comparison could be drawn of Boston and Atlanta, not to mention New York and almost anywhere.

The income difference is illusory because it does not result in a higher standard of living, but the tax burden on that illusory income is real. By forcing taxpayers who live in high-cost, high-salary areas up into higher tax brackets, the progressive income tax code not only redistributes income from the prosperous to the poor, but from middle-income blue to middle-income red. Part of this redistribution is caused by the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT), once conceived by Democrats to catch rich tax avoiders, now rapidly eating away at the upper-middle class in blue states. Is this the progressivity that Democrats have been championing for years?

http://taxfoundation.org/article/blue-states-ready-less-progressive-tax-code

Like Reid or don't like Reid. Like the Senate or don't like the Senate, but by default the Senate Leader HAS to deal with the Minority Leader to get stuff done. Heck, it's hell on wheels getting things out of Committee in the Senate, let alone all the dealings that can happen once it gets to the full Senate for debate and vote.

It's knee jerk to be able to say Reid this, Reid that, but as it relates to halting the progress of a piece of legislation in the Senate the "majority", let alone the Leader are no more powerful than those in the minority or the Minority Leader. Rightly or wrongly, that is the Senate. Reid's move within the Senate is inextricably tied to what McConnell will or will ensure will happen. Any HONEST, political observer knows this.

The House on the other hand rolls right along and can function strictly along Party lines. Rules wise, the minority Party have little to no procedural tactics to their benefit.

This issue is squarely within the House of Representatives. The Speaker is willing to give something to the President that he CANNOT deliver strictly upon a Party line vote. He CAN get a majority of the House, but he CANNOT get a majority of the Majority.

His inaction to date has been a political calculus and one that in my opinion will solidify him as one of the most ineffective Speakers in modern history.

Feisty -- it's time to start taking your Psych. Meds. again and call your Psychiatrist!! O'Bama and Reid are the people who told the Congress to "Just Vote for my Health-Care Bill, you can read it later!". What we got is over 21 NEW Taxes and Fees. Reid should be telling O'Bama to start acting like a President and less like a Socialist Dictator and stop the "substance Free Promises and Speeches". Read should tell the President to Stop with the Class Warfare and start Uniting the U.S. and not playing both sides against the middle while sitting back and doing nothing. The problem is we have a complete failure of a President who is finding that a majority of the people that pay the taxes in this country do not support him or his Socialist Agenda. When O'Bama is gone, sooner rather than later if the U.S. is to survive, people like Reid and Pelosi will need one of the many entitlement programs.

TO: Rick-3416939 who wrote:

"Liberals complain about the Bush tax cuts causing the nations fiscal problems, and now liberals are complaining because they are about to expire..."

Do you have as much trouble separating egg yolks from egg whites as you seem to have separating tax cuts for the rich, from tax cuts for the middle class?

You're dizzy now, right?

tajen - nope it is the same program and was not expanded due to Obama. But, of course you need to blame everything on the President. It's the hate you have and it's all you have.

piegan - you whine about sides blaming each other then go on to put those on the left down. Can we say HYPOCRITE?

Obama has been on the phone with republicans working for America and Americans, especially the middle class. The Bonehead has probably been stuck in a snow drift in Ohio crying smoking cigarettes and acting like the fool he is! The republican have been out to lunch as usual thinking only of protecting corporations, millionaires and billionaires.

Honestly, is anyone surprised we're going over the cliff? You would be a complete moron to not have figured that out when Congress couldn't do the deal, the first time. Just be sure to thank the Federal Reserve for keeping interest at zero percent. Without their mis-management, someone could make some money. See you on the other side.

Joe in Albany-1902257

Show some respect for yourself and our President and stop acting like a little punk.

Ditto for you Mikey - who is forcing YOU to read what I write... again? Find the "ignore author" feature and utilize it, you will be much more content! lol The article is about the fiscal cliff, not imaginary ramblings from FR trolls about Feisty Redhead, do try to stay on topic!

Typical response. First you have to disrespect me by calling me Mikey, rather than Mike or STLMIke. Next, you take the position of well if you don't like what I have to say ignor me. Well, the thing is, I want to be able to have an intelligent argument about the principles involved with the article and the opposing view points, not personal attacks. That's seems to be a typical liberals mentality these days. Don't listen to the otherside since we don't like what they have to say. Lastly, you tell me to stay on topic, yet, only yesterday your first post on the newsvine thread regarding the SCOTUS' decision not to put a temporay halt to Obamacare's contraception mandate was well off topic about the disparaging remarks coming from the right.

So, I will not put you on ignore put will continue to read your ignorant, hypocritical spew so I can continue to laugh at the hypocriscy coming from the left. Maybe one day you will learn to understand that if both sides could respect each other, someothing you seem to know nothing about, this country could fix its problems.

And lastly, to answer another question you posted on this thread, I am furious that Boehner has not brought the house back into session this week as well. But, I also would like see Reid shut his mouth regarding the senate bill that the house has yet to vote on until he bring to vote each bill he has tabled that passed the house. Both sides suck in this situation.

So the country has a spending problem? We borrow over .40 of every dollar we spend? The Republicans do not want to increase taxes, which stimulates growth, and they want to reduce spending. The Democracts want to raise taxes and push the cuts until later. The Republican House has submitted a couple of plans which both have increased taxes(or revenues if it makes you feel better)which is what the Dems want, but they have been shot down by Reid and Obama. Aaaaaand, it's the Republicans fault? What an wierd reality we live in. Isn't Obama the President? Shouldn't he be leading this? Oh that's right, lead from behind, I forgot.

Lot's of Harry hating going on, but not one of you clowns seem to be able to defend Agent Orange's absence!

Amazing, isn't it Feisty!! When Boehner and the House crumble like a house of cards, and then publicly beg the democrats and Reid to fix the problem, the RWNJ posters here come out of their little caves and start bashing Reid.

Sorry folks, it isn't up to Reid or Obama to fix the dysfunction of the GOPTP in the House.

Democrats and Republicans are so damn guilty of this. Neither side takes more blame and to side with either represents a bias beyond the issue.

Boehner will not compromise without proper steps enlightened in which to change entitlement programs and prevent the deficit from becoming a problem which needs dealing even further down the road, and Obama refuses to change his stance outside higher taxes which we all know strike every class in this country.

The issue is both continue to blame each other looking to fan the flame in the other direction.

Hello Greece, would you like to come over for a candlelight dinner, we get to sulk about the current situation for a long while.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

We have 4 more years of this thanks to you 52% who voted for him

Good point!

53% of Americans who voted for President Obama will have 4 more glorious years, while you & your ilk, will be choking on your sour grapes!

Poor things...

I LOVE IT!

Ain't democracy grand! LOL

And yet libs bitch about the elected Republican majority in the house, calling them dictators. Two branches out of 3 just aint enough is it. At least libs are rich in one aspect...hypocrisy.

That is too funny American girl, look at all your posts and the blame game you play.

Omaha, The President will be remembered for what happened during their term. Sorry.

I think they are all overpayed morons that only care about getting their votes.

How about you getting something right tajen, the cell phones were expanded under GEORGE W. BUSH. They are Bush wacker phones not Obama phones.

Senator Reid is confused. John Beohner is the leader of the House in NAME ONLY. He is factually lead around by the nose, by the TEA PARTY wingnuts.

TO: DB Akron who wrote:

"... The fiscal cliff Is on Reid's shoulders, not the Republicans."

If Democrats were in control of this situation, there wouldn't be any "situation", nor would there be any "fiscal cliff".

Republican followers specifically put certain Teagagging Republicans in office in order to stop Washington from functioning, now you say the Democrats are responsible for Washington being disfunctional!

The Republican hypocrisy never ends.

JP-345944Um - Let's see. The House wants a Bill that only taxes those making above $1,000,000 (means that about 99% of americans will NOT see their taxes go up) a year and a cogent approach to out-of-control spending.

===============

I think you better re-evaluate your "Let's see" perspective. That is the plan the Speaker spoke of, but did not bring to the House for a vote because his caucus shut him down. So no, the House DID NOT want a bill that only taxes those making above $1,000,000.

At least bring a smidgen of honesty to the discussion.

JoeB, the failure is with the GOP. Their only concern is to take care of the rich, at our expense.

Kornfed and Irish, you might want to pay attention at how disrespectful republicans are on this site. I've seen very few, if any, respectful republicans post here.

I've seen very few respectful republicans in Congress as well.

John Boehner has no business being in a leadership position if he isn't willing to work with both parties. Congress is made up of democrats AND republicans. The country is made up of rich AND middle class and working class and poor.

They show no sign of acknowledging that.

DAMN ARROGANT GOP..... The president proposed his 250,000+ tax plan and the GOP just snubbed there nose at. So thanks to our lovely GOP we are going to do a "Thelma & Louis" drive right off the damn fiscal cliff!!! Yet Boehner wished all americans merry christmas (probably meant to say merry "effin" christmas to us poor & middle class). He's a SARCASTIC PEICE OF POOP FOR SURE!!

Speaking of Dictatorships, Harry Reid, how about all them DOA jobs bills, budget plans, and fiscal cliff avoidance legislations? Shut up, bitch.

There is no honor in the Grand Old Party anymore. Big Corporate Business and the NRA pull the individual strings, the fanatic Tea Party plays the right-wing pipes, and we all watch the GOP dance.

The Republican Party seems determined to commit suicide and intent on taking the American citizens down with it.

Reid

Fiscal cliff failure looks likely due to Boehner's House 'dictatorship'

"Plan B" was Boehner trying to dictate to the house republicans a compromise that they did not accept. Seems to me a real dictator would have been rubber stamped.

Boehner as a dictator is only something a low information voter would believe.

What a spineless disingenuous Senate leader we have.

Hey Liberals....The fiscal cliff was created and signed into law under the Obama Administration....

It's not George Bush's fault now.

Obama came into office with promises to raise taxes. His reckless spending is driving us over the cliff and all the Republicans are doing is trying to stop him. The house has over 30 bills passed that Reid won't even bring to the Senate for a vote. The real party of NO is Obama and his ilk. He, especially, has made no compromise since he was sworn in.

TO: LiberalsAreTheWorst who wrote:

"That is too funny American girl, look at all your posts and the blame game you play."

Oh, when it comes to George "Curveball" Bush, it's a "blame game" but when it comes to President Obama he's "responsible" for all the dirt and lies that come out of Republicans' mouths?

Maybe it's a game to Republicans, but Lying us into War in Iraq was a hard-core fact to those who were injured and who died as a result of Bush's lies.

Now that it's time to pay back all that money that Bush borrowed to go into Iraq and steal their oil, Republicans want to blame THAT on anybody and everybody EXCEPT for the liar who was actually responsible for creating all this B.S. in the first place.

It's a simple compromise. You have to blame both sides, not just one party if they don't come to an agreement, they're making it more complicated than it needs to be. Obama, Boehner, Reid and McConnell should all resign if no deal is done.

House pages keep hearing a sobbing sound coming from The Boehner's office, it sounded like someone playing the cowardly Lion from "The Wizard of Oz", over and over It was just The Boehner.

Poor Lil' Johnny Boner.

The teagaggers have The Lil' Boner all twisted up and confused.

But, I'm in favor of giving the Boner at least this break: Consider his position....if you had to deal with those lunatic teagaggers for as long as he has, wouldn't you just want to hide and get drunk too?

personally

I do not get any MONEY for Uncle Obama so I really could care less if the CHECKS go out or not.

Maybe if the checks stopped people would realize how dependent they are on the government for their survival. That could be step one towards INDEPENDENCE.

And President O barely got back to DC Redhead

He was going to stay away until some adviser said it might look like you don't care.

remember last week President Obama said "Keep me out of the fiscal cliff debate"

The man is the President----- KEEP YOU OUT?

Blame Bush

Blame the republicans

blame Santa

BUT NEVER BLAME THE BOSS

Professor Obama

THE GREATEST LIE OF ALL -----HOPE AND CHANGE-----

OBAMA equal to or worse than BUSH

American Girl, first those wars that Bush lied to us about, Congress supported, even your Dems. Second, steal their oil? Where is all the oil we stole?? Not true. Third, Obama has spent 1 1/2 times more in 4 years than Bush did in 8. Please get your facts correct before shooting out the liberal taking points, I know the liberals debate, "throw out lies, name call and BLAME BUSH".

If the speaker and the House refuse to come back, it's time for the President to sit down and use his executive power to prevent the country from going over the cliff. He is the one that can show the rest of the country that he cares enough to tell the Right Wing nuts to go to hell.

TO: Linda in Texas-469280 who wrote:

"Obama came into office with promises to raise taxes. His reckless spending is driving us over the cliff and all the Republicans are doing is trying to stop him..."

Then why in the hell don't Republicans STOP sending billions of dollars in overseas aid, if they want so badly to stop spending?

How do expect anybody to believe that crap when Republicans are ready at any given moment to send billions overseas, and/or to jump into war with anybody!

People, make a mental note of all this foot-dragging and posturing by the GOP at the expense of the American citizenry.

We may all have to suffer two more years because of the Republican Resistance, but in 2014 we can make sure history does not repeat itself.

Know who your State representatives are and let them know we are watching them.

Fox News Propaganda didn't get Romney/Ryan elected, and it won't save the GOP/TP from extinction either.

does the cliff mean the deadbeats wont be getting their checks? and if the bone heads in washington had a balanced budget would there be a cliff?

Republican leaders said in a joint statement on Wednesday that the Senate must amend Republican-passed legislation and return it to the House before any steps can be taken.

And Hairy "Pappa Smurf" Reed says:

“It's [the House] being operated by a dictatorship of the speaker.”

Boehner spokesman said:

"Senator Reid should talk less and legislate more. The House has already passed legislation to avoid the entire fiscal cliff. Senate Democrats have not."

BINGO!!!!

Perhaps Pappa Smurf should read the rulebook for passing a bill.

The Bill is labeled and then goes to committee for study. After study, hearings or if needed sending the Bill to a subcommittee, it is voted on. Then it is reported to the floor of the Senate and calendared for action. Debate is given and vote to either pass it or reject it. Once a Bill passes it must be exactly worded and setup. If not, a conference committee is created to finalize the wording. It then returns to both Houses for a revote.

So, Pappa Smurf, where is the Senate debate, where is the compromise, where is the BIPARTISAN effort to pass a bill?

The Senate has NOT followed procedure for 4 years. Pappa Smurf has decided he is the omnipotent arbiter of legislation. His definition of debate has been to either “Table it” or to proclaim it is “Dead on Arrival”.

The Democrats are the PARTY OF NO!

This Senate and president have had 16 months to address the fiscal cliff since they caused the stalemate last August and caused our envied credit rating to be downgraded. Of course the complicit lamestream media will never accuse the limp-wristed Libbies of ignoring their responsibility.

The Liberals/Progressives are an embarrassment to our great Republic.

No budget for 1,338 days. Of course, who needs a budget to run the largest economy in the history of the world? The Libbies can just run it with continuing resolutions.

We have burned through the $2.4 trillion debt ceiling increase from last August. That means we have been spending $150 billion a month. Timmy “Turbo Tax” Geithner has announced that the Treasury will be out of money by December 31^st. Of course there was no time to debate this massive amount of legislation because Barrack Hussein was busy on his “Hate Campaign” for those mean nasty rich fat-cats.

He was busy demanding that the best Americans can ever achieve is to be middle-class. Being rich is to be reserved for the statist faculty lounge elitists in our government because the American people are too stupid to manage their own money. Only Barrack Hussein and his Czars are capable of redistributing your hard earned money to his cronies.

And of course the Libbies goose-step in order believing this.

It’s sad to see the president of the greatest Republic in history minimizing the hard working American people into simple serfdom. It’s even sadder to see the unwashed masses submitting to this propaganda. Of course it’s always easier to promote mediocrity rather than exceptionalism.

This is what Liberals/Progressives advocate. And the useful idiots of their party believe it.

Remember America, greed isn’t someone wanting to keep more of what they earn, its people demanding a greater share of money that someone else has earned.

God Bless and help our great nation.

Why do you liberals want to do nothing but spend money and get free entitlements? Why don't you want to stop the crazy waste of your tax dollars (or maybe you don't contribute so it doesn't matter to you).

It's all just sad.

There' no interest in fixing this problem for 2 reasons. one is hopeful, the other isn't/

1) Republicans just want to wait until after the new year so any reductions will be tax cuts. Grover will be happy.

2) If the very rich are going to pay no matter what, why not toss the card table and make everybody pay?

Nevermind that the "rich" have received tax breaks for 30 years. they can't be taxed by themselves. "If I'm going to pay, everybody's going to pay"

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Where the hell is the Weeper of the House?

I am sure he wasn't in Hawaii with Bawling Barack!

Boehner and House republicans WILL pay the price for this in the mid-term elections.

Vote every republican out of every office every chance you get.

Oh please...

They are both full of sh!t, which means the average american is fukked...

TO: RRandall1226 who wrote:

"American Girl, first those wars that Bush lied to us about, Congress supported..."

Because Bush lied to everybody in order to get that so-called "support", but it's not really "support" if it's all based on lies, and we do know that it was all lies.

The fact is, Bush was very proud of crock of crap he sold to Congress, and the American People, but General Colin Powell didn't think to kindly of the fool Bush made out of him in front of the United Nations.

In fact, Colin Powell was so pissed he's not even a Republican any more.

Dishonest JimSpence (and Boehner spokesman).

The Senate HAS passed legislation to extend the Bush tax cut for everybody under $250K. The House won't take it up.

Linda, entitlements aren't free. Looks at your paycheck and see that sizable deduction under "FICA"? That's where you PAY for those "entitlements" If you're like the majority of wage earners, your FICA withholdings are larger than your Federal Taxes.

Linda...It's your state that is part of the feeders at the trough. Why exactly does your state get $1.47 for every dollar in federal taxes you pay? While my state gets 61 cents for that dollar? Did you state need new military bases your Crawford clown insisted your state had to have? MY taxes paid for that.

Your hero from Crawford spent like a drunken sailor and mostly on your state...It was the only one still raking in huge Big Oil profits in the worst recession and all because of the scamming of Big Oil profiteers. I wouldn't be so proud to live in the state that thinks secession is the answer to Big Rich Texas, that Whole Other Country. That whole other country that lives off the tax dollars the rest of the states pay for.

TO: Linda in Texas-469280 who wrote:

"Why do you liberals want to do nothing but spend money and get free entitlements?..."

WTF! If you went out and bought a TV, wouldn't you expect to be able to take it home and watch it?

I already paid into and bought my retirement, so you're darn right I want it!

Everyone has the right to receive everything they purchase with their hard earned money, and in this case we were forced to purchase Retirement Plans and Medicare so that we would have money and health insurance when we retire and nobody has any right whatsoever to take away that which we have bought!!!

Nice comment red head...why did you even bring up religion. What religion are you? Should everyone question your character because of your religion? Are you possibly an Athiest and you think anyone who professes any religion should be subject to character assassination? Maybe you should rethink...oh wait - maybe you should just think before you write idiot comments. You want to lay blame on the Republicans and say it's their fault the deal isn't getting done; more power to you. You have a right to your opinion. But don't go bahing someone's religion. It's that kind of intolerance that we find in countries like Iran, Pakistan, and Egypt - not the United States. If you don't want religous tolerance...go to a Muslim country like those mentioned and have fun.

BLAME for America going over the Fiscal Cliff:

• Mr. Obama ................................. LACK OF LEADERSHIP.
• Senator "Pocket Veto" Reid ....... LACK OF "EVERYTHING".
• Senate Progressives .................. LACK OF ABILITY TO KNOW ANYTHING.

Time for Mr. Obama and his Progressive surrogates to GET WITH THE PROGRAM.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks American Girl-724855.......you have made my point about Progressives....blaming BUSH still. You are completely and totally UNIFORMED.

And the rest of the Progressive gang.....don't forget to mention "racism", you have hit on everything else except the lack of Progressive's responsibility. FLYesity needs to go to church and ask for forgiveness of her sins once in a while.

Going over the FISCAL cliff IS A ANSWER!

America is a split nation!

The Democrats refuse to address SPENDING and the Republicans refuse to address Taxing/Revenue!

These corrupt "political leaders" represent the people who elected them.

Going "over the cliff" will simply change the negotiation point of both parties and give the parties a different place to negotiate from.

The President is willing to let America go over the cliff, due to not making spending cuts.

Now Barry and the Democrats can BLAME the TEA PARTY for the cuts that are needed, when really, it is their own fault for not addressing reality.

Going over the "fiscal cliff" is a GOOD THING!

You REAP what you SOW America.

Obama's Christmas vacation in Hawaii was a whopping 4 days! No legislation to attend to because the House is STILL out of town. You guys are just so...ignorant.

TO: OO-BAMA LicenseToBore who wrote:

"...Why isn't Latin America having a "fiscal cliff"?"

Probably because they don't have any Republicans down there.

Ewent:

America was founded on being a Capitalistic Country/Society. Don't blame the Conservatives. That is cowardly.

So, Obama is now doing the job spending $15,000,000,000,000 on Stimulus Packages that went nowhere. Most of the Auto Companies bailed out have not paid the Government back, nor have any other companies seen the money, including United States State run Governments.

What happened to Hurricane Sandy Storm Victims in New York/Conn/ New Jersey---they haven't seen a dime for their promised new future of rebuilt homes by the Government? FEMA! Off track, but a good example of how the Government Agencies are not effective, either. People without a place to live--.

What are you talking about--?

All of the liberals, especially Reid are hysterical. I'm already in the highest tax bracket, and i say let's hold hands and jump off the cliff together so we can all share in generating more revenue for our idiot in office to spend. I love the way the liberal biased media and all you liberals are blaming Congress. How about putting a little blame on Obama and the Senate. The GOP is the only side offering alternatives, but our President has made it clear it's his way or no deal. That's negotiating? Let's all pay more, and guess what; it won't amount to as much as a rounding error. You can raise the tax rate to 80% on everyone and it won't be a drop in the bucket in the overall scheme of things. What part of WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM don't you get? How much do you goofball liberals think taxing the horrible, demonized so-called wealthy going to generate? Obama will not commit to cutting any entitlements, of which we spend trillions. Start cutting, quit borrowing, quit spending at a rate faster than any President in history. He is a joke and novelty act as a President and has NO CLUE what to do. But once he gets to tax the dreaded 1%ers, he'll at least get political brownie points.

I don't hear any liberals crying about Kerry being nominated. He makes Romney look like a poor, homeless person when it comes to wealth. But the media and liberals aren't demonizing him like they did Romney. He's one of the wealthiest Americans.

And the most hypocritical part of all of this is Kerry keeps his $7.5 million dollar, custom made yacht in Rhode Island so he doesn't have to pay the $500,000 luxury tax that he would have to pay if he kept it in his home state. Can you begin to imagine if Romney or any other wealthy GOP did that.

You liberals are a joke and I can't wait to jump off the cliff so you can join me in contributing more.

American Girl, again, please look up the facts. Congress had the same intel as Bush. They saw it and made their choice. Bush did not tell them anything they did not already know based on that intel. But in the liberal universe, you do like to re-write history.

Mt. Mike,

Austerity in a weak economy is a BAD thing.

I'm for fiscal responsibility, but raising all taxes immediately and all at once is BAD. Just like dramatically reducing spending immediately is BAD.

I don't see what the Republicans have to gain by working with the Democrats on this one. If I was Boehner I would let the US go over the cliff and fight every attempt by Obama to cut taxes on his voting base for the rest of his term. If he is going to spend like there is no tomorrow, why should only the rich people (most of whom did not vote for him) pay for it? It's no wonder the Republicans call him Santa Claus, in this case, it fits. Maybe if the Democrats had to start paying for what they voted for, our spending would come under some pressure to be brought under control.

While Harry is talking about dictatorships, let's not forget his senate dictatorship that won't even vote on ANY compromise from the House. He just dismisses it out of hand.

The ONLY REAL FIX is to Raise Revenue, by Bringing Back Jobs to US Citizens who Pay Income Tax.

Massive cutting just puts more people on unemployment, which just depresses the economy even further.

Returning private sector jobs to American Citizens will provide income tax revenue to OUR Government versus our government having to pay unemployment benefits to those who would be jobless instead. We need our elected officials to Start Protecting American Jobs and do whatever it takes to bring back the jobs they let go. We need leaders who will actually stand up for the American people.

The bottom line is that “Our Government” has to protect domestic industry and the jobs that those industries provide. If they do that, the rest will take care of itself.

We may have to pay a bit more for products made here in the USA by US citizens, but at least we'll still have jobs and a future for our children.

Republican only voters and Democrat only voters...

...well let's take THEIR bulls**t off the table right away.

And then we can look at the problem.

Boehner is a negotiator and would do a deal. But self face punching, fake conservative extremists won't let him. Boehner wants to keep his position as House Speaker, just like any other politician. And he's smart for doing so.

Reid is pandering to the public. Reid wants to paint this as a Republican problem, which it is, but Reid wants to try to attack the thinking Republicans for not making a deal against their self face punching fake conservative extremists. This is the wrong tactic, I would think, but I am no loser politician. Reid is betting that shaming the Republicans into the fiscal cliff will either get him the deal with negotiators or blame the Republican party for the failure.

We know Reid wants to submit a last minute deal. But the threat card is probably going to backfire.

YOU AND I DESERVE IT! I hope when one party voters personally lose money to the government that they take their elsewhere pointing fingesrs and point it at themselves.

Multi party voters should be, too, but for a different reason. I'm going to be and I'm ready to.

Multi-party voters have put up with nonsense one party voters in this country for too long. One party voters need to leave this country. Alternatively, thrown in the military and air dropped into Pakistan.

American Girl, We all deserve what we paid in. Its those who pay nothing that are supporting Obama.

Ewent, Obama has outspent every president put together. Texas pays in more than the other states and when we asked for help after the awful fires here, Obama refused. You need to move on past Bush. He isn't here and your man is. About time for him and you to take responsibility for the current actions.

TO: ldo who wrote:

"...Thanks American Girl-724855.......you have made my point about Progressives....blaming BUSH still..."

Don't thank me, all this goes down in history because, no matter what, there were no WMDs in Iraq and the entire Bush Administration was all based on lies in order to get to that Iraqi oil, and yeah, it cost all this money and caused all this freaking trouble!

Marchant.

The lame stimulus was $800B, half of which was tax cuts, not spending, and took 3 years to spend.

It wasn't $15 Trillion, which is the number you typed.

In response, a spokesman for Boehner said in a statement, "Senator Reid should talk less and legislate more. The House has already passed legislation to avoid the entire fiscal cliff. Senate Democrats have not."

Hahaha, WTF? What did the House pass? The Romney/Ryan plan that was soundly rejected in the election -- were they even able to do some lame, symbolic waste-of-tax-dollar bill? LMAO!

Senator Reid (note the Senator part) is in the Senate where the Dems passed REAL legislation a LONG TIME AGO -- Legislation, that if it was brought up for a vote in the House, would pass in seconds.

Hey all you rightwingers posting your BS in here. We'll take up a collection to buy you more shovels. Then you can keep piling it on to your Bullsh!t Mountain. That will make Teapublicans lose even more seats in the next election. Awesome!

American Girl-724855

Then why in the hell don't Republicans STOP sending billions of dollars in overseas aid, if they want so badly to stop spending?

Hmmmm, I’m sure you misspoke, meaning why in the hell did Barrack Hussein, bypassing Congress as usual, send $1.3 billion to Egypt for the Muslim Brotherhood.

Right?

Dictatorship....lol he Reid was talking about Obo and his circus of who can only beat their chest and wring their hands,telling the republicans you will give us exactly what we want or we will blame all our over spending on you...well they already know that's what will happen Period.Obo has never takin responsibility for any of his extensive failings,And he will not start now.The Dictator is on a 4 Million dollar Vay-cay while America burns,Wow what a looser,gve me give me give me is all the left seems to know,The Dictator is soakin up the sun in Hawaii.And he tells America to eat cake.

. You guys are just so...ignorant.

SmallBiz,

It would be funny if it wasn't so damn scary...

Nice comment red head...why did you even bring up religion

I brought up religion to highlight another bible-banging hypocrite!

Mormon's are not allowed to imbibe in alcohol consumption. Mr. Crapo is another do as I say not as I do hypocrite!

Cheers!

American Girl,

Don't bother arguing with the likes of OO.

WE know that not only is the 2007-2009 recession Bush's fault (it demonstrably is), the fact that we couldn't respond properly is the result of Reagan Bush and Bush II's ridiculous tax breaks that ruined the nations finances.

Read up boys and girls: http://zfacts.com/us-economy

TO: Linda in Texas-469280 who wrote:

"American Girl, We all deserve what we paid in. Its those who pay nothing that are supporting Obama ... Obama has outspent every president put together..."

When you make up stuff like that, you just make the entire Republican Party look bad.

The fact is, even Republicans voted for President Obama, even Wealthy People, which is how he was able to win re-election.

If Republicans hadn't voted for President Obama, he coudn't have won.

American girl...the liberals referred to here are the lazy @$$ career welfare idiots who are the core of Obama's and Democrat's voting block who live off the hard earned tax dollars of the middle class. Obama will continue to promise to take care of the so called "under-privileged" and rob from the middle class in order to create their socialist utopia that is the goal of Democrats. Bottom line, you dont have to rasie taxes if you do two things...1-put these lazy @$$ career welfare idiots to work (real work) like they do in Germany and 2-do what the Repubican candidated suggested; completely tear down our existing tax code and rewrite it to be fair. Cut out all the loop holes, quit paying people not to work (Earned income credit) and simply make everyone pay a fair percentage. Obama wants to raise taxes on the wealthy and allow people to stay at home in their government provided housing eating their government provided food to continue to sponge off of the middle class.

The Republican party can not even come together and vote for their OWN BILL. Remember the Republican "Plan B"? Ya... how did that work out? Oh that's right, the Republicans could not even agree on that.

Great. So we have a completely broken and f***ed-up Republican party, who can't even get their own members to agree on anything... and we expect them to save us from the cliff?

Let's look at the score:

Republican party opposes ANY bill that Obama presents.

Republican party oppose the bill their OWN speaker presents.

Republican party members propose a bill, then filibuster the bill they just proposed.

Wow... great track record. Keep up the good work.

Scary is right Feisty

I'm not sure if it's ignorance (here on this vine, that's likely), but for the "leaders" it's willful ignorance, or disingenuous.... pigotry. Our friend might have something there!

TO: whatever21 who wrote:

"American girl...the liberals referred to here are the lazy @$$ career welfare idiots..."

But aren't you folks supposed to be "Christians" who support "right to life" issues?

Why would people who consider themselves to be "good people" call other less fortunate Americans "lazy @$$ career welfare idiots"?

That doesn't seem right.

I find it rather humorous that majority leader reid is putting the blame back on the right. Of course considering that reid has yet to offer up a senate budget bill (what is it now, 4 years? and mathematacally challenged joe can't help) just what type of leader is he? Heck, perhaps reid faces the same quandry as boehner, he knows that he can't get a majority of his own party to support his and obama's agenda..

Interesting that boehner has at least made public his attempts at moving forward on the budget issues despite congressional rules that have negated his efforts.

As for boehner losing his speaker of the house status, perhaps... But with the gridlock that the senate and POTUS obama seem to relish in creating who is willing to take on the speakership?

I voted against the house (D), senate (R), and presidential (D) incumbents for my state...

They all won. They get to play more games with us for another 4-6 years.

We voted for this.

Enjoy- that is, if you actually pay taxes...

Again, the Rupublicans control the House. The Dems the Pres and the Senate. Why is all the attention on the House? Where the hell is the Senate and the "leader's" proposals? Oh yeah, tax the rich is all they have.

TO: RRandall1226 who wrotee:

"American Girl, again, please look up the facts. Congress had the same intel as Bush..."

I was there.

Don't try to re-write history, or try to give me this "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" crap!

Waste your time on somebody who doesn't know any better.

And WHEN is this piece of crap called the senate majority "leader" going to submit or even VOTE on any kind of a bill??? He IS A PIECE OF demoCRAP!

And the upper hand belongs to …

The weekly "First Time Unemployment Claims" four week moving average drop to a near 5 year low, last since March 2008 level.
Pres Obama's Job Approval: 56% / 39% [+17]
Speaker Boehner's job approval is 31 / 51 [-20]
Congressional Approval: 18 %
Debt ceiling negotiations Approval / Disapproval
Republicans: 17% / 69% [-52]
Pres Obama: 38% / 50% [-12]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_favorability_ratings
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57559686-10391739/poll-50-percent-think-fiscal-cliff-deal-possible-by-years-end/?pageNum=2
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/159401/congress-approval-remains-during-fiscal-cliff-debate.aspx
http://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/eta/ui/current.htm

Whatever21

Quit being so ignorant. Do you have any idea what percentage of the population lives on the dole?

Do you understand the a key part of the EARNED income tax credit is that you have to have EARNED income. Are you totally ignorant or what?

Hell, I'll bet YOU'RE on the dole one way or another and don't even know it. Do you do your own taxes to know?

Avaguat, I didn't vote like you, but I voted mixed parties. And I totally understand your thinking.

WELL DONE! Wish there were more people like you.

Throw the one party incumbent voters OUT OF THIS COUNTRY!

American Girl-724855

I already paid into and bought my retirement, so you're darn right I want it!

Another misinformed Liberal bobble head.

Today we have a deficit in benefits paid vs. those received. The answer largely depends on when you retire and how much you've earned over your lifetime. Consider a single man who earns the average wage throughout his career ($43,100 in 2012 dollars), works every year from age 22 to 64, and then retires at age 65 in 2012. Over his lifetime he has paid $345,000 into the system. But he is likely to get back $72,000 more than that, or $417,000 in Social Security and Medicare payouts, according to recent Urban Institute calculations. A single woman with the same work and tax history will come out even further ahead due to her longer life expectancy, likely netting $464,000 in lifetime benefits, which is $192,000 more than she paid into the system. These amounts are in constant 2012 dollars and assume a 2 percent real interest rate.

Because you will never pay enough into your "fund" to cover the years you are retired. The problem is that we are all living longer than our incompetent government had anticipated. That and the fact that our contributions are not held in any mythical "fund" or "lock box". This was blatantly exposed during the debt ceiling debacle when Barrack Hussein and Timmy "Turbo Tax" Geithner threatened recipients that they wouldn't be able to send out SS or Medicare checks if the ceiling wasn't raised. If, as Chucky Schumer states, we have over $2.7 trillion in the fund why couldn't they send out the approximate $50 billion a month in SS benefits? Because it's not there it’s a hoax. It's a massive Ponzi scheme.

Try to keep up Darla.

Avaguat,

We voted for this.

Enjoy- that is, if you actually pay taxes...

You're going to pay whether you pay taxes or not. Austerity is going to hurt us all.

Paying the piper if you don't pay income taxes is just indirect.

All the republicans in the house had to do was ok a tax increase on the wealthy and they had a deal, They will not do that, and the vasy majority of the country is in favor of that, so you can whine and cry all you want about who is at fault but the political reality for Republicans is that they are already and will continue to take the blame from the electorate. I said over a month ago the president was holding the winning hand on these negotiations, and the republicans keep making his hand stronger, and then crying and blaming him for their own inability and ineptitude. While house republicans try all sorts of silliness to try and save face with people in their own little districts back home they are destroying the GOP on a national basis. The republican tail is wagging the republican dog, they have made their Speaker a laughing stock, their republican leader in the senate had to filibuster his own proposal, they are a sad joke to the general electorate, and somehow they want you to believe that this is all the fault of the president. They just lost the Oval office, they lost seats in the senate, they lost seats in the house, so it is quite clear that the general electorate is not buying what they are selling, republicans can whine and cry and blame the president all they want but it does not change that political fact for them. The only people republicans are "Waterlooing" now is themselves.

To American Girl, you were there?? WTF???? I'm sorry, I did not realize you part of Congress when they voted on the war. Please forgive me. So you didn't see that intel then? Now that we all know you are full of $H!T, we can now disregard any statements you make and consider your input on this converstaion dribble and lies.

Isn't it nice that nobody here is blaming the American public for putting the non-negotiating representatives in their positions?

The mirror, it holds all the answers.

With a totally dysfunctional government what else would you expect?

The one per-centers have been robbing the ninety nine per-centers blind for the last ten years with their double digit increases and tax lope holes, and it should be their turn now to pony up and return some of their ill gotten fortunes, it is not welfare it would be more like, here is the interest on the money we borrowed (stole) from you over the last ten years interest free to us.

The Democrats have one plan take it or leave it, that's the plan. Anybody heard anything else from them. If you don't take our plan it's your fault this fails, we will blame you no matter how many plans you come up with and pass Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. We don't know what that plan is we haven't read it yet or come up with it so don't worry. Trust us. We will negotiate, oh sorry you said something we're done here.

Congressman Boehner.

The Drunk of Christmas Past.

Salud

JimSpence,

QUIT being DISINGENUOUS

American Girl-724855

I already paid into and bought my retirement, so you're darn right I want it!

Another misinformed Liberal bobble head.

SS is OVERPAID on the order of $3Trillion. Middle and lower class workers have been FLOATING the general treasury for 30 years. Meanwhile, we have been getting the benefit of the overspending government the whole time ("we" meaning all citizens, and "benefits" generously speaking). ALL taxpayes have benefited, even the wealthy ones that pay very little in SS taxes relative to their income.

NOW all of a sudden we can't pay that back? No freakin way buddy. That's not bobble headed.

Judging by some of the comments here, it seems that many derive their shallow sense of self from their affiliation with a political party. This causes a blindness to the corruption and incompetence of all politicians. Any blame placed on the politicians within their preferred party is equivalent to an attack on their own ego. The blindness, denial, and personal attacks on others are all defence mechanisms.

To am.can... ill gotten gains? So the rich has come into your house and took your money from you? No wait, broke into your savings account? The rich have earned their money. Being jealous of others doesn't solve anything. How about tax reform? Eliminate loop-holes? That seems like something to work on. Not class-warfare.

American Girl, what in the heck does being a Christian have to do with intolerance of lazy people who want free handouts? Girl you need to do some reading. Right to life has to do with abortion.

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate God?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate family?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate the Constitution?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate Capitalism/Free Markets

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate the military?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate our brave troops?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate American Exceptionalism?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate morality?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate justice?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate human progress and advancement?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate a good education?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate personal achievement?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate success?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate themselves?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate America?

Pfft, what a joke. The rich have earned their money.

Sure, some have. And then the vast majority of the extremely wealthy inherited it. So please, time to get out of fantasy land.

Fantasy land is something the pretend Democrats (actual Communists) live in. But their certainly is the faux Republican version.

This is why the one party voters need to leave this country, regardless of the one party they vote for. Because they are the problem, not the solution.

TO: mguy-478 who wrote:

"The Republican party cannot even come together and vote for their OWN BILL. Remember the Republican "Plan B"? Ya... how did that work out? Oh that's right, the Republicans could not even agree on that.

Great. So we have a completely broken and f***ed-up Republican party, who can't even get their own members to agree on anything..."

That's why Republican followers voted them into office, in order to throw a wrench into the cogs of government and stop it from working.

Evidently, Republicans picked the right idiots to mess everything up, which they did intentionally, but for some silly reason they want to blame the President anyway, even though their plan to stop government from operating, is actually working.

Lmao at all these stupid post. everyone want to point a finger at everyone else. as a independent i blame both parties and Obama. he is the failure in chief and the buck stops here . Isn't that what he said ?

Will speaker Boehner hold their feet to the fire this time? I think he will.

Harry Reid is the main problem but has the liberal media and the far left behind him.

People will wise up one day but it may be to late.

@michigan northerner. Obama certainly gets to share the blame. None of this BS that 'Its the fault of Congress.' Using the word AND here. The fault of Congress AND the President.

Bush f*cked up in Iraq. That was his fault AND congress. See how that works? Its called not being a hypocrite.

"53% of Americans who voted for President Obama will have 4 more glorious years, while you & your ilk, will be choking on your sour grapes!"

Wow, like the last 4 years? How did that work out for the blacks and the poor?

Ignorance is not BLISS PEOPLE.

All sorts of people won elections last year, and all of them are doing what they promised to do. Obama didn't win because he promised to work with the Repubs, And the Repubs that won didn't win because they promised to cave to the dems.

The fiscal cliff was voted on by both parties, the income taxes, the tax holiday, the OBAMACARE taxes, the inheritance tax, the sequesters, everything.

And now you want to blame the other party for these? My what a delusional world you live in.

Christ my senators (Amy and Al) just realized there is a huge medical device tax happening and want that stripped out of Obamacare (weird about 2 years late on that one) and yet offer no other way to pay for the 100 billion dollars short that would leave Obamacare.

TO: SmBusOwnerinNY:

I know that Democrat President Bill Clinton replenished the Social Security Trust Fund and had a $40 billion dollar surplus in it before George "Curveball" Bush took office.

Michigan,

LMAO indeed.

Lmao at all these stupid post. everyone want to point a finger at everyone else. as a independent i blame both parties and Obama. he is the failure in chief and the buck stops here . Isn't that what he said ?

Complain about pointing fingers, then do exactly that yourself.

Derek probably had it right saying we should look in the mirror. Unfortunately, Everybody I voted for won, but that didn't matter. We're still in the same spot.

Weird Derek is a liar how convenient.

"Sure, some have. And then the vast majority of the extremely wealthy inherited it."

Roughly 80 percent of millionaires in America are the first generation of their family to be rich

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/real-1-percent

This is why we're going over the cliff and not coming back. Both sides believe there is more political mileage in throwing the country into recession and then blaming the other side for it than there is in avoiding a recession and then explaining to their base why they "sold out their principles" (and then explaining to the rest of the country why their principles do not include preventing preventable recessions).

We saw on both sides in the presidential election that it's a lot easier to run against somebody than to stand for something.

None of this changes with the calendar year or leadership elections, so why should we expect Congress to do anything, ever? The Senate will remain in Democratic control, and McConnell will still have enough votes to filibuster everything. The House will have fewer tea partiers, but still suffer from an extreme right Republican majority and an ineffective leadership that is terrified of its own right flank and unable to lead its ranks.

Surprise me, Congress. Go ahead. It really wouldn't take much at this point.

TO: Linda in Texas-469280 who wrote:

"American Girl, what in the heck does being a Christian have to do with intolerance of lazy people who want free handouts? Girl you need to do some reading. Right to life has to do with abortion."

Well, we know for certain that these folks were NOT aborted, and that they were all "live births" because they're still here.

And you don't know if these folks are "lazy". That's just plain old nasty "name-calling".

Tom quotes lying sources and calls me the liar.

I won, you admit it Tom? THANK YOU!

Now go play pretend thinker. You are excellent at it!

Again, one party only voters need to leave this country. On account of being full of s**T

Next time, quote the Hufferington post, Tom. I bet you think that is biased and the CATO institute isn't. LOL.

JimSpence

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate God?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate family?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate the Constitution?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate Capitalism/Free Markets

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate the military?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate our brave troops?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate American Exceptionalism?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate morality?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate justice?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate human progress and advancement?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate a good education?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate personal achievement?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate success?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate themselves?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate America?

I re-posted this for everyone to see what the rantings of an Faux viewer looks like.

Salud

AG

Everybody was working in 1999! Fix employment and ALL of this revenue/spending argument goes away.

Of course, the only way to do that is for government to function, spend during recession and save (work down debt) during good times. Unfortunately only Democrats do that.

http://zfacts.com/us-economy

I know the easiest way to fix our tax problems, tax religious institutions. Like Carlin said, if they want to enter the political process, pay the fu@king admission price, like every other American.

Derek and Tom,

A million ain't that much anymore. I'll bet Derek's "vast majority" is right if you make that number $10M.

American Girl another liar

"I know that Democrat President Bill Clinton replenished the Social Security Trust Fund and had a $40 billion dollar surplus in it before George "Curveball" Bush took office."

He like Reagan and Bush borrowed from SS.

When I say extremely wealthy, I do mean the top 1%. Which is definately north of $1 million, by a long shot.

Tom in Plymouth is a closet left wing radical, by the way. He does such a bad job arguing for the right I can only assume he is out there hunting Japanese whalers as we speak.

@trust2112: Yep. Tax everyone.

American Girl-724855......

You continue to let the posters know just how UNIFORMED YOU REALLY ARE.

Keep up the good work on Newsvine, you continue to make the Progressives look bad.

BTW: you are FIRED, your Avatar looks too much like my wife.

Of course Derek please continue to throw out statements with no proof and call them fact.

How about Yahoo?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pf_article_110333.html

How about?

http://news.discovery.com/human/millionaires-120722.html

Try google, hypocrite.

Jack-179:

Summed up very well. Hopefully, most Americans do understand Business and Finance. (not) There are consequences for Americans who think the Fiscal Cliff is some kind of "Cartoon Life". It's going to be real life, and all Americans will surely notice how much less income they have to live on. It's going to be that noticeable

Your tears are delicoius, Tom. Like I said, I think you hang out with Bill Maher, you do such a bad job.

here we go with the name calling for a simple truthful post ? why am i a hypocrite ? neither party will work together for the better of the nation and Obama is the commander in chief.

Derek, of course some have inherited their money. Is there something wrong with that? Do we only punish those rich people? Or also the rich who have earned it? The ones that have inherited it, pay a huge tax to get it. Don't get me wrong, there are some Republicans that have contributed to this fiscal problem we are in, but as far as one party vote goes, I look at the canidate. However, when you compare, it seems that the right side of the aisle has a better selection. Unfortunately all to often it comes down to picking "the lesser of two evils".

@redjoe#1.99: You called "pro business" correct? Could you have possibly meant co-rectal, since you apparently feel yourself in agreement? I'm curious, since I've never read a post by "pro business" that was correct. "Pro Business is often right, in fact, extreme right, but correct? Never.

Tom - Plymouth

Not one Republican voted for Obamacare. No need to make them look worse than they really are.

SmBusOwnerinNY

JimSpence,

QUIT being DISINGENUOUS

How is it disingenuous when my money is forceably taken from me before I can even hold it in my hands, put into a "slush fund" and then redistributed by 545 people I don't even know?

My God given rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness (Property) allow me to make my own decisions on what and how my money is spent.

As a small business owner you KNOW you and I can invest that money much better than the pathetic 2.2% return we get from Social Security?

If you were to be allowed to invest your "contribution" of 6.2% there is a very capable way of actually doing it with high, medium and low risk. Since 1928, which includes the Depression, WWII, stagflation, the collapse of the dot-com bubble, and the recent recession the average annual real return on stocks has been 6.9 %. SS gives you a 2.2% return. Over the past 40 years government bonds have yielded an average real return of 2.44%, corporate bonds 3.46% and a combination yields 2.93%. It should be remembered that stock and bond returns tend to move in opposite directions, a mixed portfolio can decrease risk.

Why do Liberals/Progressives insist we give them our money and then treaten us with not being able to provide us our benefits unless the debt ceiling is raised again and again and again? Why can't I make the decision to keep my money and invest it in securities and bonds. You know we can do much better than some perfunctory return based on convluted government accounting.

We real Americans agree with Paul Ryan, even my children want to invest their own money.

Don't you?

Great Post Jim Spence, it perfectly illustrates the underlying message republicans convey to the electorate, and exactly why they lost the Oval office, seats in the house, and seats in the senate. The fact is there is an ever shrinking minority of people that will even entertain that BS you continue to spew much less cast their vote based on that nonsense. Politically, you are a dying breed Jim Spence.

Blame blame blame...Harry Reid, the Senate obstructionist leads the pack with Nancy close behind. while doing absolutely nothing and presenting absolutely no viable solutions. What a cast of Dirtbags, supported in their quest for stupidity by the socialist wealth distributors on this site.

Liberal imbeciles dominate this Newsvine propaganda machine, spew their inept opinions based on extrapolated assumptions, then proceed to ridicule and demean anyone who disagrees... Yeah, that's the way to have a constructive dialogue... Keep it up... you will reap what you sow!

@RRRandall1226: I HAVE NO PROBLEM with inheritors, but let us call it what it is.

And if you listen to Warren Buffet (I said if, not do) you'll hear him (and others) point out that the success rate of inheritors with their money is not nearly as great as those who made it.

Hey, it is what it is. You inherit a ton of money, I do not expect you to hand it over to someone else. Your parent(s) left it for you for that reason. But there is something to be said about someone who made that money being better with it than someone who just got it. And I am more apalled by the inheritors (and there are many) who like to count themselves amongst those who 'earned' it.

If you are an inheritor, just be thankful for being lucky. I don't see lottery winners out their professing how skilled they are at picking a lucky number. Being born lucky is just that. Nothing to be ashamed. Damnit, in fact, that is what the lotto is for! Being lucky even if you weren't born in.

Yell and scream all you want from both sides. The bottom line is that Obama and his buds are in Washington willing and waiting to work on the fiscal problems; and Boehner and his cronies are playing hookie and/or vacationing. None should have left DC until this mess was hammered out, holidays be d@mned. There's important work to be done, and it's not happening. That's what they all were elected/hired to do. If they aren't going to do their jobs, they should be fired; and we can hire someone who will do the job.

However, since the Republicans sold their souls to Norquist, why should they be celebrating any holidays at all?

Derek, I agree with everything you said. As far as Buffet, I don't....lol. I can understand that the ones who earn their money are more successful, because they appreciate what they have earned.

@ unamerican girl...I know that Democrat President Bill Clinton replenished the Social Security Trust Fund and had a $40 billion dollar surplus in it before George "Curveball" Bush took office.

THERE IS NO TRUST FUND!!! It ALL goes into the "general fund". Just goes to show that you STILL dont know anything!! HAHAHAHAHAHA. JUST A LIBERAL

I’ve been re-considering my alliance with my political party lately because they really don’t represent many of values and beliefs much anymore. But. Then I read the ignorance and hate speak being spewed out by Harry Reid, Nancy the airhead, Hanoi John Kerry, and all the dumbfu#* close-minded socialist brainiac’s like Fisty the Redheaded clown, and maybe I am in the right place.

Spence,

The disingenuous part is saying the money "isn't really there" or somesuch.

It's there, and our government will pay it, just like every other debt it pays, always has paid, and will continue paying. A T-Bill is a piece of paper, just like a $100 bill. If you think they're not "worth anything" please send all of yours to me. I'll find some use for those pieces of paper.

The rest about return on investment is too much to have a decent conversation about here. Suffice to say society has decided for you that this is a good way to ensure our disabled and elderly have a small amount to avoid destitution. It's not all about return on investment. Yes, I said decided for you. You live in American society. You've got to pay for some things you wouldn't choose to buy for yourself. That's just the way it is.

Ah, our leaders fiddle while America burns before their eyes!

Joe in Albany-1902257

Washington stupidity: I got to see Barry’s dog and pony show on Friday where he repeated his BS “offer” to the Republican’s that he is still willing to allow them to “Lean Forward” and take it up the a$$ by signing on to his original offer to solve the fiscal cliff. Then the weekend WSJ included this little gem in a story on how the fiscal cliff talks broke down:

At one point, according to notes taken by a participant, Mr. Boehner told the president, "I put $800 billion [in tax revenue] on the table. What do I get for that?"

"You get nothing," the president said. "I get that for free."

What an arrogant little prick Barry is. When I was working we used to have a term for people like him: A small, little, tiny, really small, man who is power drunk with his own existence. Bottom line: a person like that is incapable of making a fair deal that benefits/hurts both negotiating parties relatively equally, while giving no one a 100% victory. Yeah, he talks a good story about “shared sacrifice” and a “balanced approach”, and lefty liberals line up behind him for a chance to kiss his royal a$$, but, the reality is that his pronouncements are just the same old tired hot air.

Oh Joe, apparently a taste of your own medicine is too bitter for you! The President offered a relatively good deal to Republicans last week: CPI adjustment to Social Security (first time a Dem has cut SS), roughly $1.2 trillion in spending cuts IN ADDITION to the $1 trillion already scheduled, and a concession of moving the tax threshold up to $400,000. While that is not a 100% surrender to the GOP, I think it is a generous offer, considering that Obama won the election. But unfortunately, your bastards in the House couldn't take that deal, fearing a fatal attack from their right flank in 2014. And so your beloved Speaker was forced to walk away (as he did in 2011) and focus all his efforts on Plan B, which was an utter failure. I am refreshed with gladness to realize that Obama and the Democrats have finally found their backbone; when your disgraceful speaker tried to butter up the President and see if they could get a deal similar to 2011, Obama flatly rejected that. And when Boehner tried to play up the sympathy card by saying that he had offered revenues, the President said that those were non-negotiable, due to the election. Now, you Republican bastards must negotiate for a deal that will favor DEMOCRATS, not Republicans. Every deficit deal offered by the President (minus the initial offer two weeks ago) has drastically favored Republicans, all to no avail; now, Republicans must taste their own medicine and concede to the President, or die in the process. Your choice, but remember that the vengeful sword of Damocles is hanging by a thread above your puny heads!

I am gonna puke the next time I see the words "we have a spending problem." That is the stupidest statement anybody (even Republicans) could ever say. We don't have a spending problem; we have an ECONOMIC problem. We have a high structural deficit in the face of still-high unemployment and low economic production, and we having a coming cliff in the form of entitlement program spending (Medicare, Medicaid, and SS). The main cause of our current deficits are the Bush tax cuts, the recession, Bush/Obama spending policies, and the current deficit in Medicare. Ergo, we have a spending AND revenue problem. The most practical and effective way to reduce the deficit is to eliminate tax breaks for the top two brackets now, eliminate the rest of the tax cuts in better economic conditions (say, 2014), cut defense spending to the tune of about $800 billion (the amount the Defense Secretary said the Pentagon could stomach), and reform entitlements. You can easily reform Social Security with an increase in the payroll cap to 90% of earnings and (perhaps) chaining CPI formula for benefit increases. Medicare will require more extensive reform, including an increase in the payroll tax, reforming Medigap insurance, increasing Part B cost sharing, allowing the negotiation of drug prices, and changing (if not eliminating) the fee-for-service payment system that is the main cause for the increase in Medicare spending. THAT is how you reduce the deficit; not by axing social spending, not by reducing benefits or raising the retirement age willy-nilly, and NOT by fighting over tax cuts (all tax cuts) that have had no positive effect on the economy and are pretty much an expensive luxury item that ought to be cut.

So derek still no proof to your statement?

TO: truetexan who wrote:

"... THERE IS NO TRUST FUND!!!..."

Not for you anyway.

Zapper - "The bottom line is that Obama and his buds are in Washington willing and waiting to work on the fiscal problems"

What exactly has Obama offered to work on our fiscal problems? Spending cuts in the future and raising taxes to support more Government spending, sounds like more of the same?

Texan,

THERE IS NO TRUST FUND!!!

Sure, all of the T-bills are "just pieces of paper" right?

Please send me all of your cash, because those are "just pieces of paper" too.

American Girl-724855 the term for you is ditzy. You like the rest of the liberal minions have complained about the Bush tax cuts causing our fiscal crisis, but now all you want is for a tax increase on the top earners which will raise a paltry 86 billion per year. It takes a ditz to think that solves anything. So if the Bush tax cuts caused the problem like liberals have been saying for the past four years, let them expire you pathetic hypocrites. Maybe you can call upon Obama to announce another round of civility for the country, so people like Reid can really ratchet up the rhetoric while doing nothing to solve anything. Blame and excuses is what defines liberals, and the Obama presidency.

Rick, I truly believe ditzy as you call her, doesn't know the fiscal cliff has more to do with ALL other things happening then the Bush tax cuts.

I've got this novel idea. Term limits, give Congress one term, then if they do a good job, maybe they can get a second term, but NO retirement, and NO special benefits, the state they represent must supply that. Wonder how that would work out for them? Then, a balanced budget amendment, I know, we have gotten the lip service on that, but nothing hard and fast. The only time Congress should be able to exceed the income of the federal government, is during a time of declared war, then is needs to be paid back according to the GDP, and in a reasonable time. I have to live within my means, my taxes aren't getting lower, make the government do the same. Then pay back the money they borrowed for pork projects from the social security trust fund, to buy votes. It is not their money, it belongs to the people that pay into it from every paycheck. And finally, when are we going to tax those on the public dole, if you can't feed em, don't breed em, welfare is not supposed to be a job, tax em and make em pick up trash or sweep the streets. No free ride!

Love reading your posts Freshieee :- )

However,

I am refreshed with gladness to realize that Obama and the Democrats have finally found their backbone

I'm not holding my breath. There is still plenty of time for them to cave and give away the farm (bill) among other things in the coming weeks.

The problem is that Democrats really don't want the economy to tank, and will do things they don't like to prevent that from happening. Republicans, they couldn't give a crap, as shown by history of the last 4 years (30 years, but especially the last 4).

Rick,

raise a paltry 86 billion per year.

If it's paltry, what's the big deal about paying it?

I'm for letting all of the Bush tax cuts expire, but they should be phased back in over 5 years or something. Something that won't kill the economy.

That's something like $500 Billion a year.

That's more than half of the deficit.

Cut spending $250B too, again over 5 years or something, now we're at a perfectly manageable $250B deficit 10 years from now.

@unamerican girl...

WOW, that was good!! cant go against the facts huh! OH wait I forgot your a lib & make up your own "facts".

JimSpence

SmBusOwnerinNY

JimSpence,

QUIT being DISINGENUOUS

How is it disingenuous when my money is forceably taken from me before I can even hold it in my hands, put into a "slush fund" and then redistributed by 545 people I don't even know?

It's not disingenuous; it's called paying for civilization. Don't like the payment??? Go to Somalia; I'm sure the lack of government meddling will please your individualist taste.

My God given rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness (Property) allow me to make my own decisions on what and how my money is spent.

Yes they do; I don't recall the government forcing any American what to do with their after-tax income, do you??? That iconic statement does not apply to your taxes; and by the way, the pursuit of happiness does not exclusively apply to property; Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin downplayed property so it wouldn't be the only function of government; Franklin himself viewed property as a product of man and supported taxing it (aka early support for estate/property tax) to support society.

As a small business owner you KNOW you and I can invest that money much better than the pathetic 2.2% return we get from Social Security?

I wouldn't be so arrogant. Social Security was designed to be a pension fund; a basic minimum line for seniors to rely on in addition to other pensions or payments. You might get a better return for your money, but you might also lose it all, and then you'll have squat to rely on once your 75. And by the way, haven't you bitched about how large the discrepancy is between SS contributions and SS payouts??? Those gaps seem mighty large; isn't that a large profit margin on its own???

If you were to be allowed to invest your "contribution" of 6.2% there is a very capable way of actually doing it with high, medium and low risk. Since 1928, which includes the Depression, WWII, stagflation, the collapse of the dot-com bubble, and the recent recession the average annual real return on stocks has been 6.9 %. SS gives you a 2.2% return. Over the past 40 years government bonds have yielded an average real return of 2.44%, corporate bonds 3.46% and a combination yields 2.93%. It should be remembered that stock and bond returns tend to move in opposite directions, a mixed portfolio can decrease risk.

You fail to realize that Social Security WAS NOT designed to be a government-provided investment scheme. It was designed to be a basic safety net system to keep seniors from falling below the poverty line, and it has succeeded in that process. Throwing Social Security away to the hounds of Wall Street will only increase the risk of the whole thing collapsing; if Social Security were privatized in 2005, millions of seniors would have taken a huge hit in retirement payouts after the stock market crashed in 2009 IN ADDITION to hits from private sector payouts like pensions and 401ks.

Why do Liberals/Progressives insist we give them our money and then treaten us with not being able to provide us our benefits unless the debt ceiling is raised again and again and again? Why can't I make the decision to keep my money and invest it in securities and bonds. You know we can do much better than some perfunctory return based on convluted government accounting.

You might do better, or you might fail and lose everything and go begging the government for welfare. If you want to invest in stocks and bonds, be my guest. I would support it; but if you want to risk the retirements of millions of future retirees for some stupid belief in the infallibility of Wall Street, you can go @!$%# yourself.

We real Americans agree with Paul Ryan, even my children want to invest their own money.

If so, then why did Paul Ryan's Social Security plan fail miserably with public polling??? Real Americans aren't willing to throw away everything in the blind belief that the free market is perfect and cannot fail (a belief debunked by the current economic downturn); real Americans are willing to invest in the stock and bond market but gladly accept a guaranteed minimum payout in case the stock birds head south.

Don't you?

No, because unlike you I am not a naive Social Darwinist who thinks the free market, which in itself is a product of imperfect men like you and me, is as infallible as God himself.

FISETY ON THE LEFT, and those on the right; CHILL OUT, this is how a democracy works, yes we may go over the cliff, then the two sides will have to seek a agreement to prevent chaos; democracy is the most complex form of government, that is why our founding fathers formed a Republic based on a representative form of democracy, no a true democracy where the majority always gets their way, yes we have a couple of really rough months a head, then both will have to come to a agreement to prevent a total collapse !

How true Tom. Ditzy is like so many liberals that have created their own little fantasy interpretation about the condition of the country and what caused it. Liberals can actually take the cost of the two wars, the prescription drug benefit, and the Bush tax cuts and add it all up to somehow cover the entire Obama annual trillion plus deficit. But what is funny about liberals, is that when you ask them about 2009 when the government spent TARP, TARP 2, and the stimulus and ran a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit with all those one time expenditures, why didn't the deficit come down the very next year? For some reason the deficit stayed over a trillion, and it seems hard to add it up to blame Bush when he didn't spend TARP 2 or the stimulus. Nope, liberals and math simply do not mix.

truetexan

THERE IS NO TRUST FUND!!! It ALL goes into the "general fund". Just goes to show that you STILL dont know anything!! HAHAHAHAHAHA. JUST A LIBERAL

Here ya go, Tex.

Courtesy of Wikipedia

Social Security Trust Fund

In the United States, the Social Security Trust Fund is a fund operated by the Social Security Administration into which are paid payroll tax contributions from workers and employers under the Social Security system and out of which benefit payments are made to retirees, survivors, and the disabled, and for general administrative expenses. The fund also earns interest. There technically are two component funds, the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) and Disability Insurance (DI) Trust Funds, referred to collectively as the OASDI funds.

When program revenues exceed payments (i.e., the program is in surplus) the extra funds are borrowed and used by the government for other purposes, but a legal obligation to program recipients is created to the extent this occurs. These surpluses add to the Trust Fund. At the end of 2011, the Trust Fund contained (or alternatively, was owed) $2.7 trillion, up $69 billion from 2010.^[1] The fund is required by law to be invested in non-marketable securities issued and guaranteed by the "full faith and credit" of the federal government.

The trust fund represents a legal obligation to Social Security program recipients and is considered "intra-governmental" debt, a component of the "public" or "national" debt. As of April 2012, the intragovernmental debt was $4.8 trillion of the $15.7 trillion national debt.^[2]

According to the Social Security Trustees, who oversee the program and report on its financial condition, program costs are expected to exceed non-interest income from 2011 onward. However, due to interest (earned at a 4.4% rate in 2011) the program will run an overall surplus that adds to the fund through the end of 2021.

Under current law, the securities in the fund represent a legal obligation the government must honor when program revenues are no longer sufficient to fully fund benefit payments. However, when the trust fund is used to cover program deficits in a given year, the Trust Fund balance is reduced. By 2033, the fund is expected to be exhausted. Thereafter, payroll taxes are projected to only cover approximately 75% of program obligations.

The "Social Security Trust Fund" comprises two separate funds that hold federal government debt obligations related to what are traditionally thought of as Social Security benefits. The larger of these funds is the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund, which holds in trust special interest-bearing federal government securities bought with surplus OASI payroll tax revenues.^[4] The second, smaller fund is the Disability Insurance (DI) Trust Fund, which holds in trust more of the special interest-bearing federal government securities, bought with surplus DI payroll tax revenues.^[5]

The trust funds are "off-budget" and treated separately in certain ways from other federal spending, and other trust funds of the Federal Government. From the U.S. Code:

EXCLUSION OF SOCIAL SECURITY FROM ALL BUDGETS Pub. L. 101-508, title XIII, Sec. 13301(a), Nov. 5, 1990, 104Stat. 1388-623, provided that: Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the receipts and disbursements of the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund shall not be counted as new budget authority, outlays, receipts, or deficit or surplus for purposes of - (1) the budget of the United States Government as submitted by the President, (2) the congressional budget, or (3) the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985.

The trust funds run surpluses in that the amount paid in by current workers is more than the amount paid out to current beneficiaries. These surpluses are given to the U.S. Treasury (and thus become part of the general federal budget) in exchange for special U.S. government securities, which are deposited into the trust funds. If the trust funds begin running deficits, meaning more in benefits are paid out than contributions paid in, the Social Security Administration is empowered to redeem the securities and use those funds to cover the deficit.

Tex, a mind is like a parachute.

It has to open for it to work.

Now, everyone here knows you have no credibility.

Please, take your hate and lies elsewhere.

Salud

How Ironic for Reid to call Boehner a dictator. and how Stupid the liberals are to fall for it.

The first year of the Obama* mis-administration they had a democratic Majority in the Senate, Congress, and the White House, and all that they did was conspire to pass the largest tax in human history. and call it the Affordable Healthcare Act. "it is not a tax"(Obama*), "let's just pass the law and fix it later" (Pelosi). How much is the Fine/tax for not complying with the socialism? 1,200.00 per person per year. including children who are too young to work. Reid is a nazi like Obama* and Pelosi and Biden.

The Swastika is the new symbol of the FacistSocialistdemocratic party. They forgot to tell you of the party change didn't they?

@ saxon

the problem is obama is destroying this country and he knows it. THAT is what he wants. Remember when he called Bushs aquired debt un-patriotic, un-american?? SOOO what does that make him? He knows EXACTLY what hes doing! The ONLY promise he has kept was to fundamentally CHANGE America!! Well he is doing it and I for one DONT LIKE IT!!!!

Ido,

Blame for the fiscal cliff! Cantor, Bonehead, teabuggers and people like you who are too blind to see the fact that they are uncompromising and out of control scum! They do not have the interests of America or Americans in mind. Only protecting the rich millionaires and billionaires and the corporate business world! Just wait and see how dead the party can be . Losing the presidency and using lies didn't work and now this. Americans are fed up with the party of no and people like you! As A former republican I can tell you I'm. Of course I left after Reagan!

"JimSpence

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate God?"

Because there isn't one.

"Why do Liberals/Progressives hate family?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate the Constitution?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate Capitalism/Free Markets

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate the military?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate our brave troops?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate American Exceptionalism?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate morality?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate justice?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate human progress and advancement?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate a good education?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate personal achievement?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate success?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate themselves?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate America?"

The rest is total bullsh%^ fantasy, which makes me ask, Why are you so stupid?

You could just as easily replace liberals/progressives (whatever that is) with Conservative/Tea bagger nut jobs.

The fact is WE ARE BEING DIVIDED so they can serve their real masters BIG $$$$ GET A CLUE PEOPLE! THEY ALL NEED TO BE VOTED OUT!

I'm not a big fan of Harry Reid, but in this case, he's absolutely right. This isn't a civil liberties problem, a second amendment issue or an abortion debate. It's about money, and on some things, the majority can still rule. This is one of them. Just get it done.

YES!!! Finally, we get to return the UNPAID BUSH TAX CUT... now if we can figure out a way to return the BS, Unpaid Medicare Part D Supplment that the same Bush sold the American Public.

SmBusOwnerinNY

Spence,

The disingenuous part is saying the money "isn't really there" or somesuch.

IF the money is really there, why did Barrack Hussein and Timmy “Turbo Tax” Geithner threaten to not send out Social Security and Medicare payments last August during the debt-ceiling debate? Because in order to pay for those “pieces of paper” they need more money. What happened to the original money that was supposed to stay in the Trust Fund, Lockbox or any other nonsense you want to call it? We already paid into it. It’s now gone into the general fund by convenient Washington accounting methods that LBJ contrived. Now someone has to pay into it AGAIN to get our “benefits”. Why does it have to be paid twice to be dispersed?

Suffice to say society has decided for you that this is a good way to ensure our disabled and elderly have a small amount to avoid destitution.

Nowhere in the constitution does it say that society can decide for me, or anyone else for that matter, to avoid destitution. Please don’t even try to use the “General Welfare Clause”, the “Necessary and Proper Clause” or the “Commerce Clause” as a reason. They are NOT for the benefit of the people, they are for the benefit of the States. If the States decide to provide it they can amend their Constitutions to allow it. The Federal Constitution has 18 Enumerated Powers that the Federal government is responsible for. No more, no less. We all know the criminal FDR manipulated the Supreme Court in 1937 by trying to stack it to pass his “must have” legislation to intrude into our lives.

It's not all about return on investment.

Why isn’t it? Why can’t I decide how to invest MY MONEY better than some criminal bureaucrat in Washington? If I can get a better return on investment why does the government deny me that? The government doesn’t want you to do better than they can because then the People will realize they don’t need them doing that and their cash cow will be eliminated.

You live in American society. You've got to pay for some things you wouldn't choose to buy for yourself. That's just the way it is.

No, that’s not the way it is. That’s the way the government forces you and everyone else to believe it is. I am willing to pay taxes to fund Federal and State mandated costs. Anything above and beyond that must go to the States or the People to decide via the 10^th Amendment and to a lesser degree the 9^th Amendment.

If $16.3 trillion of National Debt and $124 trillion of Unfunded Liabilities doesn’t convince you that the government is blatantly incompetent, nothing will. Not to mention $1 trillion in student loans that are likely to default, $4 trillion in State unfunded Pensions and $3 trillion of underfunded municipal bonds.

NONE OF THIS MAKES ME CONFIDENT IN OUR GOVERNMENT!

I have blamed Obama for many things (like Benghazi, etc.), but I do not blame him for this impasse. The Republicans are clearly the trouble-makers here. The whole fiscal cliff thing was concocted by them last year. They are falling into their own trap. Obama has the better hand of cards in this poker game, and he knows it. He need not give in an inch to them; because when it blows up, they get the blame. If the Republicans trash the economy, they will be unelectable for years. We can be rid of them. Obama could get an all Democratic House and Senate in a couple of years. He will get the upper hand if he plays this right. He has to stand up to them! In his first term, he was way too compliant to these tea party sorts; which was the reason I did not actually vote for him. I will think a lot better of him if he stands up to them. So far, so good. If he nukes the Republicans politically and gets us back to the days when we had real Democrats (FDR, LBJ), then I will admit I made a mistake to not vote for him. He has to show some Democratic muscle which I have not seen in years.

SmBusOwnerinNY

That's something like $500 Billion a year.

The total of the Bush tax cuts were roughly 240 billion per year, and no where near the 500 billion you claim. But now with so many less employed or under employed in the US, even getting the 240 billion back by letting all the Bush tax cuts expire is never going to happen. But so long as Obama and the liberals are claiming that raising taxes on the top earners along with spending cuts to be named later is a solution, I say lets go off the cliff and offer the country and future generations some hope.

The Federal Government simply borrows what it needs to fund entitlements.

You know, I have yet to see one reasonable explanation of why these things, i.e. Social Security and Medicare, are "entitlements". I mean, people pay into them their entire working lives, so shouldn't they get back what they paid in? Only seems just.

If they are entitlements, and the right wing nutbags think they should be taken away, then they must think that people are not entitled to something they have paid into. So, it stands to reason that the nutbags are not entitled to their savings accounts. They have paid into that savings account, ostensibly for their retirement...just as people have paid into SS and Medicare for their retirements. So it must be fair, if the nutbags get their way and slash SS and Medicare, that those same nutbags get their savings accounts slashed as well.

And don't give me that crap about Social Security not being solvent. Unless you want to make up a lie to defend your position (as if that's never happened!), Social Security is solvent until 2032:

http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/trustees98_press.htm

SO thomas I guess your hitlery, sorry I mean hillary clinton was lying when she said we needed to protect ss and put it in a lock box?

Most likely this question comes from a confusion between the financing of the Social Security program and the way the Social Security Trust Fund is treated in federal budget accounting. Starting in 1969 (due to action by the Johnson Administration in 1968) the transactions to the Trust Fund were included in what is known as the "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget. This is sometimes described by saying that the Social Security Trust Funds are "on-budget." This budget treatment of the Social Security Trust Fund continued until 1990 when the Trust Funds were again taken "off-budget." This means only that they are shown as a separate account in the federal budget. But whether the Trust Funds are "on-budget" or "off-budget" is primarily a question of accounting practices--it has no effect on the actual operations of the Trust Fund itself.

So call it what you will. Its ALL in how you jiggle the numbers. IF it actually had its OWN functioning "fund" and NOT being taken from to pay other crap off we wouldnt bne BROKE now would we?

BP, why are you answering JimSpence? it is as stupid as the "Do you admit question..." The real question is WHY does JimSpence lie?

Perhaps we can ask the viners? Please post if you know the answer as to why JimSpence lie?

WEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! Exactly what should happen. we have been over this before. Now there will be cuts and increased revenue. Needs to be more but it is a step in the right direction. Good job, Rep. Boehner.

Express - "Republicans are clearly the trouble-makers here. The whole fiscal cliff thing was concocted by them last year."

What, Obamacare tax increases were caused by the Repubs?

What, the expiration of the Bush tax cuts were caused by the Repubs? Obama signed that

What, the SS tax holiday was caused by the repubs? Obama stimulus

What, the sequesters where caused by the repubs? That was signed by the House and the Senate.

My what an educated country we are.

I'm going to stand on the roof of my house, spread my arms out and sing:

It's all over.

Here we go and there we go. Here we go and there we go.

It's all over.

Here we go and there we go. Here we go and there we go.

Jim spense,

The money is there, just like your checking account money is "there" for you to use, even though the cash isn't actually in the bank. It's just a dumb argument. Your bank gave you a mortgage even though you don't have the $200K in the bank (why would you need the mortgage otherwise?). All financial dealings are about trust. Trust that the borrower will pay. Based on T-Bill interest rates (lowest EVER), people trust the US government will pay. Doesn't matter if you don't.

You, like it or not, are part of the American society, and you have to pay taxes for it. People can't pick and choose whether to pay for the Post Office, Army, or EPA. If you (and everybody else) had a choice that way, we wouldn't have a government, or a society. You do realize that, don't you? If you don't like it, by all means, try out a country that has little or no government and see how you like it. You may be able to hire your own security forces to protect your fiefdom, but you won't have anyone to call if your next door neighbor decides to install a toxic waste dump.

Rick, I read the Bush tax cut value was $500B at this point. If it's less than that, oh well. $86B, or $250B is better than $0B.

DG_W, "entitlements" has become a dirty word. There's nothing really wrong with it. You're right, you paid, you're entitled to collect benefits.

Texan, what difference does it make? A T-bill is a T-bill. budget is budget. deficit is deficit. The only thing wrong with comingling the money is, for example, that the Bush budgets were not crazy by themselves, but actual spending and the debt went up a lot more than the deficits implied. It was sort of a secret that we were actually spending a lot more than the official "budget" numbers said.

Note that Obama was the one who put the real numbers "on budget" which is a big part of the reason that the deficit ballooned in 2009. We're seeing the real numbers.

Kinda like the "real" job numbers? BTW, I wasnt crazy about all the things Bush did either. BUT I believe Bush wasnt trying to destroy us either.

Nobody needs leadership advice from failed Senator Harry Reid.

A Howard Baker he is NOT!

Mr. Boehners stop defending the people that make over $250 Thousand Dollars Grant President Obama wish by allowing him to tax these people. It will hurt this Nation as a whole so be it. Obama think that by raising tax on those people making over $250 thousand will save the economy. Obama never took a seriously economic class. Let him and his Liberal followers take the blame for what up ahead on the future of this Nation. Mr. Obama you need to cut spending but not Medicaid not medicare not social security and certainly not the military. You need to cut wasteful spending to those non-profit organization, stop the contribution deduction on the income tax, Increasing the hidden tax on import goods, and so on.

"You, like it or not, are part of the American society, and you have to pay taxes for it. People can't pick and choose whether to pay for the Post Office, Army, or EPA. If you (and everybody else) had a choice that way, we wouldn't have a government, or a society."

I suggest that's not ultimately in question. What's in question is whether or not tax dollars are being spent wisely/efficiently.

Maybe if everyone, and I mean everyone, had to pay something in Federal taxes, even if only $25/yr., and be required to write a check to cover their tax bill (rather than having the $ taken from them before they ever touch it), then maybe everyone would be a bit more concerned about how their tax dollars are being spent. Maybe they'd hold their representatives in govt more accountable. Maybe politician promises would be considered more in terms of their cost, as opposed to only benefit. Maybe Americans would act more like responsible adults.

Come on people. We’re all being played like a fiddle.

This is the reality:

We go over the fiscal cliff and taxes are increased on everyone.
Then, within 2 weeks, the Republicans vote to decrease taxes on the middle
class retroactive to Jan. 1^st.

Although the results are identical to an affirmative vote prior to the Holidays; the Republicans can claim that they never actually voted to raise taxes on anyone…as a matter of fact; they only voted to lower taxes
for some. In addition, they are now the good guys who ultimately compromised (for the good of the nation.)

The sad thing is that; we’re “all” going to lap it up. Everything that is happening right now is merely a show and we’re falling for it like good little tools instead of noticing the reality. All political leadership from
both parties already know how this is going to play out. Thousands of other politicians also know how this simplistic maneuver is going to go and why.

Don’t bicker. Watch the show and realize that this is how the political machinery operates. Why would we want to fall victim to such kindergarten contrivances?

Hell with it lets just go over and go even further than the cliff. Lets go into a real depression. You know soup lines, Vouchers for flour and sugar. Complete shutdown of the majority of services. Like potable water to drink. Garbage removal, no schools, no work.

Ive been poor before, actually grew up poor. In a little mountain town. Beans and rice and liver. Yum Water with my cereal. Fresh fish from the creek. Not so bad. The ones I would feel bad for are all those spoiled people. Who cant live without. Neither my parents nor I have ever received welfare. Yet we always get by.

Let me share a little info from our company Accountant. He has informed the Officers that having a good income this year will be OK. No matter what happens in Washington, next year will not be a good year to show good income on the balance sheet. With all the taxes instituted, (Like all those in Obamacare that all of you are not aware of and the 50% could care less.) any good income made will end up in the govt's hand, not yours. I'm sure every other Accountancy firm have informed their business clients the same info. So don't count on 2013 to be a banner year, (rather just like this Christmas Season, lots of build up hype that turned into a sad whimper.) Thank you the low information voters who voted Obama back in. You could have ended a bad thing, yet decided to torture the rest of the country with 4 more years of crap.

Hay Democrats shout the F up and work on the 300 bills that past the house. What are you bitching about you left a week before Christmas and left the house in DC, sometimes pay back is hell Harry.

Pat Boston you couldn't found any one more stupid than SteveBenen, Maddow Blog:

how about we talk about what is good for America?

Honestly at this point maybe raising taxes on everyone is a good thing. If we are not going to spend money that we actually have, well we might as well have more revenue.

Instead of blaming the other side, or the politicians that we elected. We the people need to take responsibility for this mess as much as anyone.

Also stop blaming President Bush. If you can blame him for everything that happened, how can you defend President Obama for not getting things done by saying it is the house and the senates fault? Talk about hypocrites..

This crisis can be averted, but it will take a few GOP members who have the guts to stand up, own up, man up or woman up and do the right thing.

Over 5 million more American citizens voted for President Obama's plan than voted for Romney. The American citizenship has spoken. For the Republican Resistance and the Tea Party Traitors to continue with their flagrant disregard of our democracy is nothing less than treasonous.

Wow 267 replies! What was the original post again? Folks in here are about as good at using forums as Americans are at voting. We're going over the cliff and it's our own fault, we put all of those idiots in charge. USA is dead, I just hope it doesn't drag the global economy down too far - gotta have somewhere to escape to!

The American citizenship has spoken.

Don't forget that some among us obviously wanted Boener in charge, too! He's not going anywhere, the 2% has far too much power and Boener has little opposition.

Hello folks, in the long run nothing will happen if we go over the "fiscal cliff". The middle class and poor will end up paying the ever increasing bill. The "fiscal cliff" is a ruse being used to implement austerity on the middle class and poor to give more to the rich. It's a game!

The banksters whose recklessness and illegal behavior caused this terrible recession are now lecturing the American people on the need for courage to deal with the nation’s finances and deficit crisis. Before telling us why we should cut Social Security, Medicare and other vitally important programs, these CEOs might want to take a hard look at their responsibility for causing the deficit and this terrible recession.

Our economy is based on debt. The Fractional Reserve Banking System relies on debt and if we didn't have any debt in the system there wouldn't be any "money" in the system. In other words our 16 plus trillion and our 1 plus trillion yearly deficit are required and a byproduct to prop up and maintain this evil Federal Reserve system. That is why 85 billion dollars of monopoly money is being pumped into the economy monthly to prop up the banks to perpetuate the illusion that our economy is solvent. That is why the 1.4 quadrillion derivatives casino market is allowed. To give this failed system the illusion that it is liquid. If the powers that be would allow a bank to go bankrupt they would have to attach a price on their assets that they have leveraged 100 to 1 and re-hypothecated to all the other major banks the banks would fall like dominoes. The people in the position and in the know understand that this is all a game and are wealthy beyond reproach. The only reason this system has survived is for two reasons, the petrodollar and because when you and I exchange a dollar we give it legitimacy. If either of these two factors collapse so will the dollar, nothing is backing it up because it is meaningless it is debt.

If we paid/gave every dollar the entire world has back to the consortium of mostly European banksters who created this monopoly money out of thin air we would still be in debt because they didn't put the interest attached to every dollar into the economic system in the form of currency. Therefore there will always be debt and it will grow and has grown exponentially and as a result creates debt slaves out of us all and the powers that be know this. So it doesn't matter if we raise the debt ceiling under this system because the dollar is the world reserve currency and we can "print ourselves out of debt" as long as the world is willing to deal with the inflation our printing inflicts on their economy. They along with the middle class and poor are the ones who are footing the bill for our debt.

The bottom line is that the banksters/Federal Reserve hold the true power in the world and as long as we don't recognize and reveal the man behind the curtain we will be consigned to the Merry Ole Land of Oz and be relegated to more and more austerity. It is only beginning!

P.S. And to you Republican Democrat blame gamers unless you are in the top 1% they keep you divided and distracted while screwing you equally!

ForrestGump: How aptly named. Please just answer one question. What is raising taxes on 1% of the population going to do?

SmBusOwnerinNY

You, like it or not, are part of the American society, and you have to pay taxes for it. People can't pick and choose whether to pay for the Post Office, Army, or EPA.

As I have stated. I and all real Americans have no problem paying for what is included in the Constitution as the Enumerated Powers dictate. Or what the State Constitutions impose either.

The Post Office, the Army, the Federal Court system and the other 15 mandated costs of running our government should be paid for via taxation. The EPA is not a Cabinet position it’s an Agency. It is run by an administrator not a Secretary as Cabinet positions are required. This should be a State run program to ensure better control. A small Federal oversight Agency can be created for the sole purpose of coordination among the States.

The Federal government has expanded well beyond its Constitutionally mandated responsibilities. Uncontrolled Agencies, Czars and other intrusions are why we have the massive waste, fraud, abuse and corruption in our government. Federalism demands the Federal government provide its functions to We The People. Everything else is to be controlled by the States.

Rob-523523 (post # 1.265) makes an excellent point.

NO ONE knows where all of our hard earned tax dollars go. Even our criminal government is unaccountable. When we have solicitor general’s, auditors and other oversight agencies and committees telling us that government spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them–costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually–fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve.

Almost 25% of our social programs fail to show ANY positive impact in the populations they serve even the most rabid Liberal Progressive should be outraged. Instead you submissively accept it and encourage our criminal government to demand more money from us. It shouldn't matter if the money comes from the aggregate or your favorite bogeyman, the rich, it should never happen.

Here we are again thanks to congress's inability to do anything but blast each other. Neither party has the true will to do what is RIGHT. For the People, Remember?? Seems a lot do not remember. Sorry conservatives, despite the ruling by an "activist" supreme court, corporations are NOT people. You want "entitlement" cuts?? Start at the TOP, where money only flows one way....to them. You bitch about those who do not make enough to be taxed, yet not a word about the billionaires who pay nothing in yet receive millions back. Back???? From what??? nothing was ever paid in to give back. The epitome of FREE HAND OUTS. Not a word....They be cool, right? SH!T

Most here, and I point manly at the right, are just here to bitch and call names. Make ya feel good?? Powerful?? Cool??? Sadly, this board is a reflection of all the BS thrown around in Washington, but even sadder is I believe there may be more intelligence here than in Washington. And yes I blame both sides, the right for their traitorous treatment of the People in favor of the VERY few, and the left for not having a spine and not standing up for the PEOPLE.

If the right has their way, I'll have $2,000 less next yr. So be it. At least the 1% will get less too, by millions. For once in this whole decades long suffering of the People for the benefits of 1%, the 1% will have to suffer, even though to a point it won't be noticed, but they'll have to give too.

We could have been well on the road to recovery by now, but the right hated the idea Obama might look good. They literally have said "Fu*k the country and the people, we have to make this "man" look BAD. Great bunch of representatives of the People...Ya, right.

Stop the BS and do the Job you were elected to do, or turn in YOUR pay check.

Much Love n Peace,

Da Pup

>:o): ( A warm n Happy "HI" Feisty. hehe ) PurRrRrRrrRrRrrrrr

Absolutely amazing that the majority party in DC is blaming the minority party for their failure to lead. Last I saw Obama was the leader here but he has done nothing to address the concerns of America's deficit spending other than tax more (doesn't even cover his deficit spending plan) and blame others.

What is even more amazing is the masses believing the BS coming out of this "popularity" contest versus thinking and realizing the spending party of over... America deserves the end result here - the American public will be to blame, not the politicians. Its the idiots who follow them over the cliff...

Wyo2 #1.18,

Harry Reid should not be allowed to be in any political office !

Do any of you remember about the efforts to establish a repository for radioactive waste? Old Harry milked that as long as he could with all that federal money . When he had to put up or shutup, he pulled the plug on it, stating that there was too much risk __— might leak. Well I looked at it more closely, guess what __— that area had been used for both above ground and below ground nuclear tests.

Good old Harry just took advantage and we now have multiple sites which could more likely provide access to nuclear waste by those that might want to harm us. A single site would be more secure and cost much less.

Congress better learn to live within our means, instead of spending like a drunken sailor.

Whatever is the number required to convene a Constitutional Convention, please do it, instead of letting our current batch endup destroying our country. It can't be too many, since once it is made it cannot be rescinded.

Term limits for Congress sounds like a good idea.

It's Grump not Gump, Jack it allows the rich to be a part of regular America, it makes America a fair place again, where nobody gets a better deal than everyone else just because they are wealthy. The money raised will help the problems we have, it certainly will not make them worse. It is a matter of fairness and equity in America.

Now Jack you tell me what not raising taxes on the top 2% will do for us.

Both sides are to blame along with the majority of the American people. After all they elected them. Also the majority of the american people are just fine with us stealing away the future of our grandchildren and great grandchildren. Everyone says I am not stealing it is those other people. Yet the government spends way more than what it takes in. You could tax the rich at 100% and it would not cover what the government spends. After all where is the balanced budget? Hell where is the budget? It will all come to a screaching halt some day. Are you in a position to provide for your family's needs then? The whole thing is going to come crashing down. If you depend on the government for your needs you will someday be disapointed.

Republicans Today Are 100 Percent AWOL From Fiscal Cliff Talks

@ Feisty

Well at least Crapo admitted his mistake that same day. Where was one of your hero's when he walked away from a drowning woman? You always like to bring up Republican failures, so, admit that Ted Kennedy was a drunken murderer. I could give a crap that it was 40 years ago. He never spent a day in jail. Not even overnight as Mr. Crapo did. Mr. Crapo stood on his own 2 feet and took responsibility for his actions, unlike the murderer Ted Kennedy

Wow, Doug, how does it feel to be 100% wrong? According to all of the cable news this morning, Boehner STAYED in DC so he'd be available to negotiate....with Obama and the Dems who all went home. Try getting your info from someplace other than the DNC talking point sites!

What's Obama's and Harry's excuse for knowing the Bush tax cuts were scheduled to expire in 2013 and not doing something sooner?

Should they not bear accountability for their inability to get the economy moving enough so that people did not have to be on unemployment most of the first term including two years total majority?

Their incompetence and failure to be leaders have contributed greatly to this situation.

This nation has an "ADDICTION" for spending money it does not have!!!!! Where are the spending cuts???? We as a prosperous nation will fail if we do not get our spending habits under control, HELLO USA!!! I do not see spending as a part of this discussion and that is precisely the problem!!!!

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL --- You keep spouting your crap but the truth is Reid and Obama are getting exactly what they wanted, taxes to go up and someone to blame. You really do not understand politics do you?

---

The Dems cannot be trusted at all. All they want to do is raise taxes, raise spending and keep repeating the process, all the while blaming the other side for the worsening problems. It is the same old s***, been watching it for over 40 years.

It's the Cloward/Piven strategy of revolution. Look it up. We won't be happy with the results when they succeed, and if you think it is just 'conspiracy', what plan do YOU suggest to pay down the debt and unfunded liabilities?

Printing money out of thin air has not helped any nation that tried it. We are in for a doozey!

well, the public overwhelmingly blames the GOP for this! these are just the FACTS. now, GOP ideologues will be confused by this point (FACTS always confuse the GOP) but they will understand it better in time to come... these bastards really are going to bring on the next great recession and this time they didn't even need bush to do it.

America will survive but the GOP will not. This may be the end of this party, especially when you consider the demographics of the coming decades.

The GOP is on a suicide mission headed for 2014.

So I will ask again...WHy are the Dems so caught up on taxing the top earners in America? Do you realize what you will gain by raising the taxes on the top 1% - 2% of Americans? A few hundre billion dollars. Do you know what a few hundred billion dollars will give the US Government at its current spending? 6-8 days. 6-8 FREAKING DAYS! What is gained? It's like trying to damn the Nile River with a match book. Think people! There needs to be more to it than that.

Forrest: Says it allows the rich to be part of America. Forrest, do you work for a company? If you do, that company is more than likely owned by someone in the horrible top 2%. They probably went to school, worked their tail off, started a business and employ quite a few people. Yes, those horrible people like myself. I employ 75 people, pay an average salary of $75,000 annually, provide medical, dental, disability, life insurance, 401K, and I make well into the high six figure range. But I am to be hated because our President started this class warfare several years ago to ensure he gets re-elected. Conquer and divide, as there are many more in the middle to lower class than in my class. Great guy we have there in the White House. Now, only for political brownie points, he wants to ONLY tax those that provide the most to this country; the small business owner. I pay millions in payroll taxes, I pay an escalating tax rate up to 35%, I pay 15% of dividends and capital gains, I paid hundreds of thousands in taxes this year; no funny math, just capital gains tax and mortgage interest deduction. But that's not good enough. I and others in my class can easily afford to pay a few thousand more here and there. Christ, i just spent $104,000 on a 2012 Jaguar XKR-S; most amazing car I've ever driven. I did pay over $9,000 in sales tax on it as well. I own four more cars and one nice boat. The property tax alone on my primary residence is over $20,000 annually. Still not good enough. At some point if you liberals don't demand that Obama puts his no limit credit card away it won't matter if you tax me and others at a rate of 75%, as it won't put a dent in his debt. This is just a psychological, class warfare mentality that he and the liberal biased media has you people believing. You can hate us all you want, but we can not fix this problem by simply paying more taxes.

After perusing these posts for the last hour or so, it becomes painfully clear that many of our “friends” on the right have little to no clue as to how the THREE branches of the federal government actually work.

I realize that the blind hatred the right wing has for our black president clouds their vision and what little reason they may have, but the statements that are being made are completely without basis in fact and belie the utter ignorance of the posters. Please allow me to elaborate:

Every time I see a right wing sympathizer post something like “The President is on a spending spree” or “The President wants a blank check” I want to just scream at the poster to go back to school and learn how our government ACTUALLY FUNCTIONS! Aren’t the conservatives the ones that are SUPPOSED to value and actually understand our government? If so, how can they also be so completely ignorant of the fact that the President has NO control over the money our government spends? Are you really all that clueless as to not know that the ONLY thing the President can do with regards to fiscal spending is to either SIGN or VETO a spending bill? The President does NOT determine spending, that is the job of CONGRESS! All the President can do is agree or disagree with the spending bills that are sent to him from Congress! Is this really that hard to grasp? If not for your blind hatred for the black man at 1600 Pennsylvania avenue, perhaps you conservatives MIGHT remember your high school civics lessons. Make all the dumb cracks you want about this issue. All it does is highlight your ignorance and clear unwillingness to acknowledge reality.

Along the same lines are the geniuses that post statements like “The Senate needs to pass a bill that the House can vote on.” Once again, this is NOT how our system of government works! If you have any grasp on reality, you know that the Constitution MANDATES that ALL spending bills MUST originate in the House of Representatives! Why are these concepts so foreign to posters that would have you believe that THEY are the “true” Americans? If you were even remotely American or patriotic (as you all like to scream as you beat your chests), you would know this. I know, it is not convenient to deal in reality when all you REALLY want to do is disparage and obstruct the black man in the White House. If you really want to move the political discourse forward and actually do something productive, go back and learn how this government really works and be willing and ABLE to have an intelligent discussion without attacking or name calling.

Lastly, there are the intellectuals that proclaim that “the President is a dictator.” Are you intellectuals so ignorant of the fact that there are three CO-EQUAL branches of our government? As already identified, the President has VERY limited powers granted to him by the Constitution. Other than negotiating foreign treaties and declaring war, the President can ONLY sign or veto bills presented to him by Congress. How in the hell does that even REMOTELY resemble a dictatorship? For someone referred to as the most powerful person in the free world, there are, in actuality, VERY few things that the office of the President can actually accomplish without the consent and approval of Congress. Now, if the fact that we have a black President is the equivalent of a Dictator in your closed little minds, PLEASE do us ALL a favor and move OUT of the USA and go find a country to live in that will teach you what a REAL dictatorship is all about! I am so sick and tire of people (that arguably should know better) shouting such ignorance as if it were fact simply because they repeat it often and loudly. Get a freaking clue and learn how YOUR system of government works. Otherwise, do not get pissed off or offended when someone that actually KNOWS better calls out your ignorance and brings attention to all just how clueless you are.

Now that we have some basic facts out of the way, what do you say we start discussing our pressing issues based on facts and reality and leave the ad hominem, hate, and fantasy based allegations at home? This country faces SERIOUS issues that NEED to be addressed by intelligent and fact based arguments. If you are ignorant or unwilling/unable to deal in facts and reality, please take your arguments to Fox News or the Rush Limbaugh show where they DO deal in ignorance and misrepresentations of facts. This is not brain surgery people. ANY person that calls themselves a patriotic American has, at the very least, the obligation to learn and understand how our system of government actually works BEFORE you start spouting your opinions as to what needs to be done! If you are unwilling or unable to do this most basic thing, you are NOT an American and have NO place in our political discourse…

I can no longer debate these lies from the right with their and I quote We can't tax the super rich as the sky will fall ,so their yes men of the Rep/T.P. send to the Senate the most unacceptable bills and complain that the Democratic Party will not debate their ridiculous excuses that they call fair bills.I would be tempted to say O.K. to those idiots but these are not games but are serious attempts to solve the economic failures of the House giving to our former P.O.T.U.S. his way with catastrophic gifts to the super rich and at the same time refusing to stop the exporting of American jobs overseas.

TO: Rick-3416939 who wrote:

"American Girl-724855 the term for you is ditzy. You like the rest of the liberal minions have complained about the Bush tax cuts causing our fiscal crisis..."

I never said "the Bush tax cuts caused our fiscal crisis".

I said Bush robbed the U.S. Treasury.

Some of Bush's own family members got checks over a million dollars apiece from the $450 billion dollar surplus that Democrat Bill Clinton left behind, you may as well say Bush took that $450 billion dollar surplus and split it among him, his family members, and his wealthy friends.

Then Republicans had the audacity to try to deny that $450 billion dollar surplus ever existed.

And then, after Republicans robbed the U.S. Treasury as SOON as they took over the White House, then they robbed every single other program in the country that had any money in it.

Disgusted-in-PA

I realize that the blind hatred the right wing has for our black president

BARRACK HUSSEIN IS BLACK?

The hell you say. I thought he was mulatto.

You are right Jim. Is it because he is mulatto that you have such a psychopathic hate for our President? Why don't you enlighten us as to exactly why it is that you hate THIS President and have never hated any of his predecessors?

Disgusted-in-PA

You are right Jim. Is it because he is mulatto that you have such a psychopathic hate for our President? Why don't you enlighten us as to exactly why it is that you hate THIS President and have never hated any of his predecessors?

Awwww c’mon DiP, I don’t hate Barrack. But I do hate his statist policies.

When a president denies that our Constitution IS a “charter of negative liberties”, even you should be outraged. But then again you Libbies believe the Constitution is some mythical “living document” that can be bastardized to fuel your social and economic justice nonsense.

BTW, I wasn’t thrilled with Bush’s second term, and I certainly wasn’t happy with the embarrassment Clinton ended up being.

What statist policies would those be Jim? Please educate me. And remember, I only respond to facts, not right (or left) wing rhetoric.

And, when you are done, please enlighten me as to whether or not any of our previous Presidents (read #43 specifically) has engaged in your "statist" policies. And, if previous Presidents engaged in the same tactics, why is it you single out THIS president?

What's the geezer of the Senate babbling about now... He can't run a Senate so he likes to point the finger to someone else...

Harry Reid and Fiesty Red Head are the two biggest cancers on America today. Both are just about as full of shi$$ as you can get. True dedication to their agenda.

Gee kkwilson,

I hope you didn't hurt yourself thinking that whole post all by yourself. I mean, it had to tax your brain to come up with such insight and perspective.

You must really be lost since even Fox News decided they had had enough of people like you posting on their sacred threads...

Disgusted-in-PA

Well let's see DiP, lemme ax you a question first.

Doesn't it bother you that Barrack Hussein demands that the best you can achieve is to be middle class? Did he EVER state Americans can be middle class AND rich and that's OK?

NEVER!

That's because statists don't want you to succeed on your own. And please don't insult yourself with the, "You didn't build that" nonsense. They want you to believe that only the government can help you. They believe only the Ivy League faculty-lounge elitists should be wealthy and control your life. No salt, no 32 oz. Slurpees, no independence.

The "Life of Julia" cartoon on his website should be an outrage to every hard working American, yet you romanticize it. Did you grow up reading "Get Middle-Class Quick" books or did you dream of being rich one day?

You Libbies condemn success because you've been indoctrinated by your dysfunctional parents, peers and teachers that the rich have somehow come to your home and taken your money. NO, they worked for it. You may not like Romney's profession, that's OK.

I started, built and sold 3 very successful businesses that I still sit on the Boards of. Two of them were expanded with "vulture equity" investments. Today we employ over 2,700 great workers. We are in the health, energy and retail sectors of commerce. We have attrition rates below 3%, one of the lowest in all of these industries. We maintain a high level of delayering to improve our efficiency and costs. We, as well as many other industries, have decentralized with revenue gains in double figure percentages for the past 12 years.

I spent 36 hour shifts to keep our businesses going for years, I spent all my own money and a good portion of my parents money starting my first business. They never complained, they encouraged me. They have been repaid handsomely and my 3 great kids all work in the industries.

This is the American Dream. I didn't inherit a penny. I don't know any secret handshakes to get free money and I pay high six digit taxes. I refuse to pay more to an incompetent corrupt government until it shows me the same fiscal sanity I had to practice building my businesses.

Having said that, has Barrack Hussein ever promoted this???

No.

But he should, if he was a real leader.

As far as #43 is concerned he wasn't a statist, but he was a profligate spender. I disagreed with his useless stimulus, TARP, the Patriot Act and other policies, but he never minimized the American Dream.

All we real Americans want is a government that understands its mandated responsibilities and allows the States to do the rest. This is what our Constitution affords us.

jk1963,

Did I miss something? I thought it was the Speaker of the House who had to pull a bill that was scheduled for a vote because the HOUSE was unwilling to follow their leader.

Senator Reid is more capable of running the Senate than Boehner will EVER be at leading the House.

It must really suck to live in such a twisted world as you live in.

Disgusted,

Between Reid and Pelosi, Boehner is head and shoulders above those two idiots...

it must really suck to live in a fantasy world where you worship the ground that geezer Reid walks on...

So whining, sniveling Harry-Crooked-Reid that he would pull an end-run on the House by blaming the Republicans for a bill he would never allowed to be pass by the Senate. What freaking little sniveling weasel. Yet, the House called his bluff and went home for the Holidays. So Harry pissed his pants because that budget included free stuff to welfare rats such as social services, free medical, free sh!t for illegals, free stuff for newly unwanted Third World losers to support (I know, they get nice free apartments and housing were I live, food Stamps and medical services). Yeah, please send us more Somalis, Russians, and half the Middle East to turn my city into a sh!t-hole with these freaking losers! And don't forget to help them start a business at local tax payers' expense. And if their business fails, bail them out with my taxes by erasing their debt. Oh, I forgot free college. And one more thing, I want the IRS to start investigating these losers who are in Low-Income housing/apartments. Apparently, it appears that the father in many cases will liquidate his assets and hand them over to another family member. Then he will file for low-income housing, welfare support, food stamps, and medical assistance, when in fact, he may have Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars stashed with another family member. If that don't absolutely f#$king piss you off nothing will.

@ SmBusOwnerinNY

America enjoyed 30 plus years of GREED AND IMMEDIATE GRATIFICATION.

Time to pay up FOR OUTSOURCING AMERICA'S JOBS (GREED) AND IMMEDIATE GRATIFICATION (credit and fiscal irresponsibility)

Austerity now, GOING OFF THE FISCAL CLIFF is a GOOD THING, for the LONG TERM FISCAL HEALTH OF AMERICA.

GOING OFF THE FISCAL CLIFF NEEDS TO BE DONE!

All one need do to realize how critically we are failing in every way as a nation is to read the posts in this thread. There were approximately two, up to this point, that revealed IQ above 100. They may have been written by the same individual.

99.5% of these posts display very low levels of information.

The same percent are as hyperbolically vitriolic as our elected officials.

I will offer nothing else here, because none of you are listening. You are all merely screaming obscenities at each other.

It is starkly apparent that our government exactly reflects us.

I hope nature's next great experiment in critical thinking will fare better than homo sapiens has. What pitiable creatures we've come to be.

Excellent post Jim!!

Congrats on your success in business! It's too bad that so many on here think what you have accomplished is inherently evil.

What a bunch of BS. Yes, you whinning knuckle dragging sheeps. It will go over the cliff because it is good for everyone. It is that simple. Our gov will get the necessary revenue while spending gets slashed. The weak kneed Republicans simply didn't have the balls to raise tax, so they are simply using the excuse that it went over the cliff, and then retroactively correct whatever they can with the Democrats.

All they are doing are raising a bunch of "I told you so" for their donors and lobbysts.... not the voters, because they are too poor and stupid.... Yes, I mean you!

JimSpence

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate God?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate family?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate the Constitution?

Why do Liberals/Progressives hate Capitalism/Free Markets

BLAH BLAH BLAH..

Why do you make this BS up? I'm what you would consider a liberal, but I don't hate any of those things, I'm not an atheist, I'm not on welfare, I've had a job since I graduated college in the late 80's, I support our troops, etc.

Obama does not hate all those things either. In fact, if all you people who complain about Obama so much would pry yourselves away from Rush and Fox News long enough to get back to reality, you would probably find that President Obama fights for you far more than the republicans you so blindly defend, i.e., unless you are in the top 1%.

I get friggin sick ready the crap by folks like Feisty, Empress, Bill C etc. that don't have one friggin iota of a clue as to what out-of-control spending, fiscal cliff, and sequestration means for this nation, and what will happen to this country courtesy of dick stick liberals and right-wing republicans if an agreement is not made ASAP. All they can do is spout moronic left wing rhetoric and adulation for the worst friggin President this nation has had since Warren G. Harding. The Republicans have basically been back-peddling and making concessions for the last 2 months and all Reid and Obama do is dance the two-step, first agreeing on one thing and then having amnesia. They don't know the meaning of compromise or leadership. Who is going to be hurt without a deal - the poor, the mlitary, the aged, and NOBODY making over a million - LIKE most of Congress AND Obama - who BILL C, fights only for those on the dole, big government, and socialism!

Out of curiosity - What specific concessions have we (Republicans) made? We have been offering tax reform (the sane, fair, effective alternative to the ineffectual liberal tax increase) ever since the the debt limit debate; but, I'm unaware of any specifics that have been offered as to exactly what reforms that we will make. Boehner offered to increase the tax rate on $1 million + and it fell flat on it's face when it failed to pass the House - sounds like the same two-step that you are accusing the liberals of. We offered spending cuts to substitute for the military cuts that will tax place next month; but, that is a shift and jive - not really anything new. I'm not aware of anything else that has been offered.

From my point of view - neither side has done much of a damn about this since the cliff was created last year.

JP,

I am well aware of the problem we have with the deficit, and I do not have a problem with spending cuts. But what is so wrong about a small tax increase on the top 1% when they pay a less percentage in taxes than the middle class?

Do you think attacking the deficit should be only from cuts to programs for the elderly/poor/middle class, with no extra burden for the rich?

Bill,

Let me explain the problem with your theory. You can raise that top marginal rate to 99% tomorrow. Romney will still be paying less then you, or me, in taxes.

This is a tax on wage earners. Do you really have a problem with your doctor or surgeon (300k income range) who perhaps saved your life or the life of a relative keeping an extra 2% of his money when he already gives 34.9% of it over to the Federal Government? I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't. The type of tax increases they are discussing do not address the problem. Besides the 'revenue enhancements' they are talking about are pennies compared to the actual deficits we're running. To get at the deep pockets they would have to go after capital gains and Wall Street, including banks, and it will never never happen.

And tell me Bill, what substantial spending 'cuts' do not have an effect on the elderly/poor/middle class? All of them. Milk subsidy, everyone buys milk. Oil subsidy, everyone buys gas. Tax loopholes that let GE pay nothing? Everyone buys their products through either appliances, or their local power company, or the engine in the plane that took grammy to see the kids this holiday season. Mortgage interest deduction? Cause Americans actually 'own' their homes right? Not the bank right? Yeah thought so.

Everything is going to hit the elderly/poor/middle class. We spend too much F-ing money. Get use to the idea that everyone in those groups will be crying. They either do it through reduced programs, or paying 10 bucks for a gallon of gas and milk.

I'm not trying to be a heartless prick. I worry about individuals who cannot take care of themselves as much as any bleeding heart out there or here on this thread. But I'm also a realist. The math is the math. There is no way to fix this without serious pain to spending programs. Crap like Chained CPI won't do it either.

Btw, our politicians (both parties) know this. Why do you think we have a 'doctor's fix' and an "AMT fix" every single year? If it's so obvious what the problems are with those why don't they just fix it permanently and be done with it? Tag AMT to inflation and flat out change the rules with Medicare funding that hit doctor's payments. Just do it once and for all. I'll tell you why they don't, because they want to keep those sunset provisions each and ever year in there. So that when the crap really hits the fan they can just passively not fix the problem, blame the other guy and rape the middle class (AMT), or screw Medicare (doctor's fix which without all your doctors would drop out of the program).

They aren't already paying 34.9% though. I think capital gains tax should be higher as well. I think we should eventually go back to the Clinton tax rates for everyone, but not until the economy is stronger. That in combination with some moderate spending cuts should get us more in line with where we need to be.

Jim Spence: Doesn't it bother you that Barrack Hussein demands that the best you can achieve is to be middle class? Did he EVER state Americans can be middle class AND rich and that's OK?

WTF? Where in the hell did you come up with this? This is the most ridiculous bunch of BS... And his last name is Obama, not Hussein. Did you call Ronald Reagan Ronald Wilson?

President Obama demands that the best you can achieve is to be middle class.

Really? Do you even pay attention to what you are saying? I was no fan of George Bush, to put it mildly, but I never went around vomiting this kind of gibberish?

I don't think we have ever had a president that does not want Americans to prosper. For some reason, there are a lot of republicans that have just convinced themselves to believe that it is OK to go around making up lies like this about the president, even though they know it is wrong to do this, and they know what they are saying isn't true.

Somehow the republicans

Bill - I like your Avatar. Nothing "moderate" is going to fix our problem - at least not in any reasonable time frame. It took WWII to pump up the economy enough to knock down the deficit the last time that the debt to GDP ratio was this high. The problem lies only in the timing of extreme countermeasures - not the necessity.

The problem with raising taxes is that it effects those who actually pay taxes the most - it does nothing to address the situation that allows some wealthy individuals to avoid income taxes. In fact it will likely cause even more of the wealthy to look for more ways to avoid the tax - making the problem worse instead of better. I have no problem with raising the taxes on the wealthy if it is needed; but ONLY after we eliminate the tax avoidance vehicles. That is the only way to ensure that any tax increase is spread out fair and evenly to all instead of falling disproportionately on those who honestly pay their taxes. And I feel exactly the same way about those who fall in every tax bracket - not just the rich. 1 in 5 households that made $50k - $75k managed to pay $0 in income tax. It wouldn't be fair to penalize the 80% who pay taxes by raising their tax rate in order to make up for the money lost to the 20% who don't pay the tax. It's not any more fair to do the same thing to others just because they happen to make more money. I think that tax reform instead of a tax increase is the ideal way to handle this.

Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world; so we will likely have to implement a combination of the two (tax increases and tax reform). But the important point is to not ignore the real problem by concentrating to much on the politically popular (but less effective) tax rate increase. If we want to fix our problems, we need to have an accurate idea of what those problems actually are; without that, we simply make the problem worse. That is how we got in this mess in the first place - making superficial changes while ignoring the real problems. And both sides are guilty of having done the same thing; but, that doesn't mean that we need to continue doing it. Focusing only on tax rate increases is pretty much doing just that.

I'm with you about capital gains taxes - they should not be lower than earned income. I personally think that they should be higher; but I can settle for them being the same. The father of "trickle-down" economics (Mellon not Reagan) didn't believe they should be lower; and I'm in agreement.

I thoroughly agree with your sentiments about the zealot tactics of being confrontational and spouting lies. I also hate their use of selective memory, shirking responsibility, simplistic notions of what the problems are and how to fix them, and many other idiotic tendencies that they have. I don't necessarily agree that they are aware of doing this; but they are doing it regardless of their level of awareness. But, we have gone far beyond this being a Republican tactic. An increasing number of Democrats are falling into these same bad habits, and I despise it almost as much when they do it as I do when Republicans do it. I am only harsher on the Republicans because they are my party. And this isn't the first time that this sort of thing has happened. The liberal William Randolph Hearst did the same thing to the Democrats with his yellow journalism back in the 1930's.