The best we can get is a GOP Aide stating that it is up to 'Senate Democrats' to act. Not the 'Senate' needs to act, but rather 'Senate Democrats' need to act.

You go on TV and give 30 second temper tantrums and commitments about how the House WILL pass a measure allowing rates to stay the same on earnings under a Million. For two days you did this and then when the rubber met the road, ALL of the GOP Leadership could offer the American Public was a fast paced walk out of DC with 1 and 2 word answers on why the vote was all of a sudden not going to happen.

This hodgepodge of GOP factions are the most reckless, non-legislative minded band of misfits EVER to grace the Halls of Congress.

Boehner made his 'deal with the devil' to become Speaker and for it, will go down as the most inept Speaker to date.

Allen - I'm sure it is balsphemy to use the words "House GOP" and "leadership" in the same sentence! At what point have the Republicans in the House EVER shown leadership? They just keep jumping through the hoops Grover Norquist holds up!

Allen they are worthless, useless, helpless, and hopeless. They collect their outrageous pay and benefits to do nothing, they claim they represent hard work and personal responsibility but they don't do the work and never take or fulfill their responsibilities. Funny, no actually sad, that these people who get all this pay, and all these benefits at the expense of the American taxpayer, are always pushing to lower the pay and benefits of Americans who have worked a lifetime as a solution to our financial problems. They fight against unions, they fight minimum wage increases, they fight equal pay for women, but they sure collect all they can get for as little effort as possible. I would like to see a proposal pushed by the electorate that no federal rep in the house or senate makes any more in wages and benefits than the median income of his state. I like to see a rep from Texas change his tune when his pay was reduced to $11.20 an hour, I like to see how he reacts to his pay being reduced from $174,000 a year to $23,400, you know for the good of the country, the economy , the business climate, job growth, and all that crap that they direct at everybody but themselves.

I'm sure that House Republicans know exactly what the majority of the American People want done (increase taxes on the Top 2% wealthiest Americans who are not even complaining about paying an additional 4 cents on the dollar), but feel that they are there to represent their small portion of the country that elected them to stand their ground.

It's hard to argue with that point of view, unless it gets to the point where a minority of people actually are able to dictate to the majority, then we have a problem.

The fact is, raising taxes on the Top 2% wealthiest Americans are not even residents of these tiny areas that are pushing to gridlock government and install Aparthied law in America.

Could it be Grover Norquist is hiding his Tea Loonies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"According to one GOP aide, "It's up to Senate Democrats to act right now."

As in, "It's up to Senate Democrats to act.....right now"? Or "It's up to Senate Democrats to "act right" now"?

Either way, give us a break and grow up.

I spent yesterday with my 11-year-old nephew, and trust me, even when he's making silly faces and saying "My Dad's a stupid doofus" in a dozen different voices, he's still got at least 9 years worth of maturity on these clowns.

And I think he knows a lot more about "leadership", too.....

As if we had any doubt the House GOP would end the year as the biggest losers evuh, in the history of the US Congress. Lame Duck doesn't even begin to describe the losers - LAME F*CKS is more apt.

JoAnne, I also spent Christmas with young children, and I heard more responsible rhetoric on whose turn it was to open a present, from my young relatives, than I've heard from House GOP leaders all year.

"It's up to Senate Democrats to act right now." Like it was up to Democrats to lead us out of the recession, end the war in Iraq and expand healthcare to the uninsured, while Republicans refused to cooperate.

I have no idea how any GOP legislator can rail about lazy overpaid union workers, when they alone vote a deal for themselves that makes the best union contracts ever seen look damn shabby. They want to deprive government employees the right to collectively bargain but give themselves a blank check. They are government workers, and if any government workers in their states have taken a pay cut they should at the very least have their pay cut by the same percentage. I swear if I had to negotiate with these hypocrites they would do well to wear a clip on tie because I would be reaching across the table and trying to choke a few of these phony bastards.

Forrest - I would also suggest that any future cuts also include cuts in Congressional salaries....NO raises (or at best cost of living raises equal to SS COLA adjustments) and to show how well they lead....only pay them for the days actually in Washington...pro rate their salaries....and NO pay unless a Realistic Budget is passed....

Like the way the GNOP punts and sez Demorcratic Senate has to act..the GNOP Senate makes a proposal and then Filibusters it.....the GNOP congress comes up with a plan and then can't get the votes to pass it..... You call that serving your contsitutients???

I hope in 2014 the whole sorry lot of them are booted out of Congress....

"According to one GOP aide, "It's up to Senate Democrats to act right now.""

Well I heard the Senate Democrats myself say that the Republican Bill that passed in the House was dead on arrival in the Senate.

So, what do Republicans want, an official "burrial" of Republican House Bill?

You got that right Paul they filibustered their own proposal, and voted down their own plan, the filibuster of their own proposal in the senate was a freaking comedy act never before seen in the history of the senate, but then they continually blame the president and say the president is not a leader. It's beyond belief, personally I would not have Boehner or McConnel in a crew at a McDonald's much less as leaders of a nation. They are freaking pitiful, and you know if you ordered two burgers, a fry, and a shake they would screw it up.

The irony in this whole mess is President Obama has cut his vacation short. Yet, John Boehnor, the Grimm Weeper of the House of Representatives, has not called his uncontrollable, do nothing, determined to destroy America caucus back to work.

Washington's Christmas gift to America from the old white STALE MATES: Nothing!

The reasoning is simple, aides say: Boehner and other GOP leaders aren't going to herd 433 lawmakers back to town with nothing to do.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=1D0260A5-D4A9-4402-B30B-1B93D6D9B59C

"pro forma" session ... a sleight of hand legislative trick used to extend vacation time.

Forrest Grump: " personally I would not have Boehner or McConnel in a crew at a McDonald's much less as leaders of a nation. They are freaking pitiful, and you know if you ordered two burgers, a fry, and a shake they would screw it up."

True story, Forrest: I once ordered an "iced tea with lemon" at the drive-thru at a local Wendy's. Got back to the office, stuck my straw in the cup and sipped and couldn't taste any lemon. So I took the lid off and looked around for the lemon slice to squeeze it......and fished out an entire, rather large, completely unsliced lemon.

So be careful next time you order "a fry" - that may be exactly what you get!

Allen, well said. Forrest Grump, no doubt about it; McDonald's would fire them.

President Obama might as well enjoy Christmas vacation with his family in Hawaii because the House certainly won't get anything done before Monday--if the GOP even bothers to return before the new year. I believe after Thursday's Plan B debacle, Speaker Boehner first said they'd try again after Christmas but then implied they might not come back until after the new year. Maybe Boehner figures he'll have fewer TPers to fight.

The GOPers in the House are so inept, they cannot even pass their own legislation. The GOPer Senatators arent any better; after all, Mitch McConnell demanded a vote on his bill then filibustered his own bill.

JoAnne, my wife to this day will not go to Hardy's because she and the kids stopped there many years ago, and when they got home there was not one single hamburger between any of the buns, there was ketchup, mustard, and pickles, but no burgers. At least you got your lemon!

Have some compassion, people, House Republicans need time to consult with their wealthy donors on what to do next, and those folks haven't gotten back from Telluride yet.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/freedomworks-tea-party-group-nearly-falls-apart-in-fight-between-old-and-new-guard/2012/12/25/dd095b68-4545-11e2-8061-253bccfc7532_print.html

The episode illustrates the growing role of wealthy donors in swaying the direction of FreedomWorks and other political groups, which increasingly rely on unlimited contributions from corporations and financiers for their financial livelihood. Such gifts are often sent through corporate shells or nonprofit groups that do not have to disclose their donors, making it impossible for the public to know who is funding them.

Heck of a job, know-nothing, Party of No.

RedDevPS

They are he worst!!!

In his second term, President Harry Truman condemned the snail's pace at which lawmakers actually got some work done, labeling it a "Do-Nothing" Congress. After all, the 80th Congress (1947-1948) only passed 906 bills over its two-year period.

The current Congress, by comparison, has passed just 196 bills, easily the lowest total since the U.S. House Clerk's office started keeping track. Consider the progress in chart form, which should drive home just how unproductive the 112th Congress (2011-2012) really is.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/29/15541727-making-the-do-nothing-congress-look-great-by-comparison?lite

Here's how the GOPs want to balance the deficit.

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/poor-women-and-children-faced-with-fiscal-threat/

About 25 percent of that spending goes to programs that help the poor. Here’s a visual breakdown of which categories receive this money:

Once again, the gop proves, and painfully proves they are the governing party of failure.

They, the gop wanted to tie the budget with the raising of the dept ceiling. to force budget deal. And again they themselves cannot pass a budget. The terms Pathetic, Pitiful, embarrassing, uncontainable, feeble....... or better yet go see ..... www.thesaurus.com/browse/Pathetic?s=t

Voting Republicans should be proud.

I'd like to see those idiots required to deal with a limited amount of vacation time like the rest of us. I worked Christmas eve and came back today. No complaints, I've used up my allotted time in bits and pieces mainly on things related to my kids. But imagine how much we might get out of congress if they HAD to work a minimum number of day a year or not get paid!

If I were President Obama, I'd go fast and loose on the Recess Appointments if for no other reason than to compel the useless asswipes to hustle up and get BACK to work!

PS. It was my understanding that the Senate Dems PASSED a proposal,...Why don't you choke on THAT, Boehner?

Amend it and move it; but quit acting like the Senate needs to wipe the drool off your chin for you!

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112:S.3412:

So the dems are the ones who need to get to work???? ARE YOU SERIOUS??? Seems to me the Dems. are the only ones working because the GOP certainly isnt...and havnt been working seriously at anything since they got in office...except obstruct and take away people rights! They want to continue their vacation they had when they were under Bush. They got back in office and started the same behavior they did when GW was in ... doing nothing!!!!!

For Boehner to come out and say the dems havent been doing anything is laughable. The GOP and tbaggers (I dont consider Tbaggers to be real repubs...they are a disease) have done nothing but obstruct for the last 2+ years. They are a f&*king joke!!!

Funny Cantor only scheduled 124 days of work the entire year of 2013..what does that tell ya people?? They have no intention of doing anything but what they have been doing ..nothing!!

And they call us lazy...Get to work you deadbeats.

I agree with you Clara.. he should go fast on "recess appointments" if he wants the people he wants in certain posts. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY HE WILL GET THEM without a hassel and big delays from the GOP.

I make a motion to hold the GOP House for contempt of the American People and the President of the United States.

Lets face it.

Even when congress is in session , they don't do anything anyway. Just a big waste of time and our money. Time to throw the bums out and put people in , that have common sense . Along with working for us rather than working to screw us.

I agree with you Bob1/28

we need to start by overturning citizens united..what a joke that is.

Ha you got a great idea Clara that would put their sorry asses in gear, unfortunately they would not hustle back to do anything, but they would hustle back to make sure nothing gets done.

Anyone remember that sweet little old nun Mother Theresa, at this point even she would tell the GOP to go EFF themselves.

Job1

Seconded!

The gopers have to have an extra day off to sober up enough to drive. Thweir DD is Clapo.

I just seen an article titled "Lost, Blind Dog finds it's way Home", well that is better than the GOP can do. Maybe the lost blind dog could act as their Mascot.

..... and Boehner has the nerve to claim that the President is "not serious." Give me a break!

Prior to retiring I managed a group of 30 IT folks. If I or they would have walked out on a problem or project, I would have been fired or I would have fired them. We all knew that we had to provide a certain level of service. These people have no clue about leadership or responsibility.

Allan

The Republicans passed a bill Back in AUGUST that would maintain the Status quo. What that means is Democrats don't get the tax increases they want and the Republicans don't get the spending cuts they want.

The Fiscal cliff could be avoided by passing it.

Reid won't even open the Bill, and Obama says he would veto it.

As far as Plan "B", Boehner said Okay, we will let you raise taxes on those making over $1,000,000 AND are offering tens of billions of defense cuts that will not harm readiness.

On Obama's side, he offered one concrete cut on COLA's that will cut the increases of Social Security over the years. Most of the cuts and savings will take place in the following years, if they take place at all. The last time COLA's were re-worked, we had a couple of years where seniors were not given a raise, which is what is supposed to happen. Trouble is that in those couple of years Congress then wrote and passed bills that sent every senior citizen a $250 Check totally thwarting what was set up.

The same has happened with Medicare. In 2002, Democrats got a bill through cutting the payments to doctors. Then somewhere once a year, Congress manages to give what they took away back in supplemental appropriations.

There were two stories floating around about "plan B". One was that republicans saw the "cuts" and realized that they were like those before, just mirages and said No!. The other is that a group said, since Obama isn't behind it, why send it through!

Oh, yes, I forgot one thing.

Obama did give on the $250,000 and above. he did go to $400,000. He still is going to raise on far too many of the small businesses.

Owners of small business draw $150,000 - $250,000 AND are also liable on their 1040's for the taxes on the net profit. Now, in many businesses with just a few people, getting 1/2 Million in profits. The reasons this occurs is that they can have their accounts receivables come in right at the end of the year, before any intended expenses can be draw. Another is that expansion is delayed that would have cut heavily into profits.

I laugh at the left when they say how high corporate profits are. First of they like to quote the Dollar figures. What counts is percentage. A trillion dollars is and sounds big, but when you spend 20 or 30 Trillion to get that Trillion, you are not very profitable.

Gas refiners make 6 - 7 per gallon, taxes start at 45 cents per gallon. If the Refinery makes 100 Billion in profit, how much did government get? Something like $700 billion.

Now who's really rich?

They need the extra time to figure out how Boehner ended up in bed naked with a monkey in Bombay after partying all night with Crapo.

Yep representative's like Portman & Johnson will do the smart thing and stay away..... Mr. President it is time to Sequester Congress, get the Sargent At Arms to force every House & Senate member back to Washington..... Do not allow them to leave until this is resolved..... Congress if you really want to start making some cuts to expense's then start with your Pay & Benefits, there is no way you all have earned a penny of it..... By the way when you leave Congress for Good you FREEBIE BENEFITS need to stop.....

Give us a break DB Akron. The majority of Americans want higher taxes on the Rich. You think it's fine for congress to ignore the will of the people? Also, in your example of a 1/2 million dollar business, if they paid higher taxes for those making 400,000 or more a year, they would pay 4% on the 100,000 over 400,000, totaling $4,000 dollars. The tax being proposed only applies to net ABOVE the cut off. Anything below that gets the old rate.

Do you seriously think that anyone believes this $4000 tax will negatively impact any business making 1/2 million dollars in any way, shape, or form? The rich have gotten off scott free during this recession and thrown the entire weight of the crashing economy on the middle class. We've had enough.

The GOP better get to work, and do what the people demand, rather than what their billionaire Norquist paid them for. They owe their allegiance to US as in the United States, not themselves.

Who voted for these GOP idiots?

The GOP think they can save their jobs by not voting on the Fiscal Cliff. They will let the Democrats do the voting so they can blame them if things go wrong. Then they can tell their constituents they didn't vote for raising taxes on their own kind. Little do they know that they will still be voted out in the next couple elections. Can't wait.

Democrats in the House would never have let things get like this. House GOP majority are still trying to make the President look bad, but the funny thing is, it's making the House GOP look bad. No matter what they do, the President still comes out smelling like roses. I for one am glad the fiscal cliff solution is about to happen. This takes all the power away from the House GOP and puts it squarely back into the hands of the President. Maybe now you Repugnants can see what your constituents are doing to this Country and vote them out.

We'll be glad to take back control of the house, thank you repulsivecons!

Vote every republican out of every office every chance you get.

DB Akron

The Republicans passed a bill Back in AUGUST that would maintain the Status quo.

Congratulations DB, the Republicans best solution for our debt problem is not trying to solve it? That makes sense, since that's all you guys cried about during the last election. What about that Republican legislation that Republicans recently filibustered? Boehner's "Plan B?" Is that Democrats' fault as well?

The GOP doesn't do anything any way so no need for them to return to Washington...

Heck, why don't they just stay home and do nothing there...

I tend to believe that Boehner has no problem sealing the deal with the President, it's just that Boehner is an ineffective Speaker who is not able to lead the Republican Party.

House Republicans have no problem with smacking the Speaker back whenever Boehner goes to Cantor with a deal that gives the President even a partial "win".

Bonehead sold his Soul to the Tea Loonies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Tea Crackers work for the Koch Cult Movement lobbyist for the 1% Mega Rich to support their lavish style !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

American Girl, it isn't just that Boehner is an ineffective speaker, it is simply that his Caucus refuses to compromise on anything; he doesn't have enough reasonable, responsible republicans. He might be more effective if he had a caucus that isn't stuck in rigid ideology.

Boehner overheard singing that old tune, "It's My Party and I'll Cry if I Want To"

I wish their was a law in which the President could order the Federal Agents to pick up and hold these useless GOP members in the House Chambers until they do their jobs.

Boehner needs to reach across the aisle if he wants to get things done. You got to gamble sometimes Johnny boy if you want to get any respect. The tbaggers certainly think your their boy and they are laughing at how they got you jumping through hoops for them. Let them get ticked off all they want..they are on their way out anyway...you, on the other hand, have nothing to lose JB. Any other speaker would have the same bull crap to deal with ... count on it. Take back your bullocks and do the job you were elected by the people to do.

Job 1,

I second that! These clowns are incredulous!

American Girl, it isn't just that Boehner is an ineffective speaker, it is simply that his Caucus refuses to compromise on anything; he doesn't have enough reasonable, responsible republicans.

Unfortunately, there's really no one to blame for that state of affairs other than our fellow Americans. Those lunatics weren't appointed or forced upon us. At least some of us voted them into office, for reasons that elude me. That's the really sad part of this whole affair. We got the government that we voted for.

The House Gop doing what they have done best since January of 2007. NOTHING!!!!!!!! Oh, how they will cry on January 1, 2013 when their 2% goes over the cliff right along with the Millionaire Congressmen.

Oh - I wouldn't say the House GOP has done nothing...They seem pretty adept at giving themselves embarrassingly long vacations when we need leadership the most.

I don't know why they even bother to show up. After hearing what the traitor said he wnated in a president, we know that Norquist isn't paying them to actually think for themselves.

I think you hit it on the head right there Da Noid.

Republicans love to continue to repeat election rhetoric such as "the President needs to lead" which is nothing more than a hoax.

Boehner is constantly trying to "lead" Republicans in the House and no one over there will listen to him, so why put that on the President when there doesn't seem to be any discrepancy in the Democratic Party.

American Girl-724855

Republicans love to continue to repeat election rhetoric such as "the President needs to lead" which is nothing more than a hoax.

Boehner is constantly trying to "lead" Republicans in the House and no one over there will listen to him, so why put that on the President when there doesn't seem to be any discrepancy in the Democratic Party.

American Girl did you see this?

Chief Executive Howard Schultz is urging workers in Starbucks' roughly 120 Washington-area shops to write "come together" on customers' cups on Thursday and Friday, as U.S. President Barack Obama and lawmakers return to work and attempt to revive fiscal cliff negotiations that collapsed before the Christmas holidays

Starbucks CEO is using his company to push the false equivalency things about the debt and “fiscal cliff” nonsense, (deal or no deal) and suggesting that he’s never seen “such a lack of leadership,” which implies President Obama ya know the Socialist, Marxist, Kenyan, in the White House .


Do we really want to give money to this slave holder?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/26/starbucks-fiscalcliff-idUSL1E8NQ00V20121226

What’s extra stupid, and is never brought up by these fake astroturf groups such as “fix the debt” or the media, is that honoring the deal signed last year would be the fastest fixing of the national debt ever, so if Howard Schultz really cared about the debt and not his personal taxes, he’d be arguing to leave the deal alone on January 1st! we all make our own choices each day on things as simple as which coffee to buy. Not to mention last year our credit rating went down

Beverly - Hi there! Hope your holidays are OUTSTANDING!!!

I choose to believe Starbucks CEO is talking about Boehner's "lack of leadership" since we ALL know the President has made more than one plan to Boehner and the GOP STILL can't accomplish anything. Okay, I may be givine the CEO more credit than I should but I'm still going on that premise!

Looks like Starbucks is dumping their Coffee for Tea, I never liked their Coffee anyway !!!!!!!!

I am a Seattleite. I honestly dont like S'bux coffee. But Howard Schultz is well known out here as a Seattle Liberal. He hosted fund raisers for President Obama and other Democratic candidates this past election cycle. Although I cannot speak for Howard, I am certain that his message is dirrected toward the TGNOP.

Beverly- it's possible (although unlikely for a CEO) that he's actually concerned for his employees spread across the country. No way to know for sure....

What’s extra stupid, and is never brought up by these fake astroturf groups such as “fix the debt” or the media, is that honoring the deal signed last year would be the fastest fixing of the national debt ever, so if Howard Schultz really cared about the debt and not his personal taxes, he’d be arguing to leave the deal alone on January 1st!

Perhaps what Schultz cares about is the economy. Uncertainty over the "fiscal cliff" cut holiday sales and most economists say that the sudden tax increases, coupled with suddent spending cuts, will likely put the nation into another recession. That'll make the debt situation worse, not better.

Starbucks CEO is using his company to push the false equivalency things about the debt and “fiscal cliff” nonsense, (deal or no deal) and suggesting that he’s never seen “such a lack of leadership,” which implies President Obama ya know the Socialist, Marxist, Kenyan, in the White House .

I think the "lack of leadership" refers to the House of Representatives. If Boehner can't get his own party to line up, that signifies a tremendous "lack of leadership" among the Republicans.

oh no, carry a semi up the ladder!

I can't imagine why they wouldn't support that, Noid.....I mean, our police officers are all already heavily armed, and that's certainly prevented any of THEM from ever being wounded or killed in the line of duty, right? So shouldn't our firefighters be just as fortunate?

The NRA is a wacked out organization that is trying to apply "the year 1800" principles in a "year 2012" society.

It would probably be practical for people who live in the woods and other remote areas to have certain hand guns and so forth for self protection, but people who live in Big Cities like New York and Los Angeles wouldn't seem to have any need for "game" rifles, war weapons, and other types of dangerous guns and/or ammunition that can inflict mass damage.

Yes, and if those children had guns they could have stopped the madman. It's a damn shame we don't give our Kindergartners the guns they need to stand their ground.

NRA+GOP=KKK Militates for the Mayan Calendar !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just a thought. Wasn't this guy a convicted felon already? How did he get a gun? Pretty sure we have laws against that. Maybe we just need more laws that the criminals can break. Yeah, that will fix the problem.

Enforce the laws we have on the books already, and stop worrying about putting even more laws out there.

It costs money and takes govermnet to enforce the laws, two things the GOP will not stand for.

TO: InterestedObserver-1193145 who wrote:

"... Wasn't this guy a convicted felon already? How did he get a gun? ..."

Ok, so you haven't been watching.

No, the "guy" wasn't a felon, and his mother kept several guns in the house.

Pretty sure we have laws against that. Maybe we just need more laws that the criminals can break.

Of course, without background checks required for sales by private collectors and at gun shows, prohibitions against felons owning guns are hard to enforce. But, as American Girl pointed, out, this guy wasn't a felon, which makes your point moot.

I think Wayne is more dangerous than the Guns !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The NRA showed Dick Cheney how to Hunt !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SF, good point. President Obama has probably figured out that the GOP House isn't capable of functioning. My own sense at this point is that we would be better to go off the fiscal slope, then maybe the GOPers will find their brains in their panic on the way down. I don't blame President Obama for trying to avoid it but I doubt he expected Speaker Boehner to have any better luck with his raucous, rigidly stuck on stupid, caucus now than Boehner did earlier this year during the first attempt at a grand bargain.

skip1 - now there you go giving them credit for the ability to "think." I'm pretty sure that is FAR beyond their level of competence!

I think you are right, Skip. Watch them next year as they stall and delay any actions on gun control, hoping that the furor after the events of Newtown goes away. They are also doing it to President Obama's nominees for cabinet posts, as well as administrative and judicial nominees. The "O" in GOP clearly stands for obstructionist!

skip 1, we need only look at last year's debt ceiling debacle to know you are right. The GOPers don't even understand that the debt ceiling is to pay for what Congress already voted to spend and worse, they don't even care. The GOP seems under the uninformed and misguided assumption that if the USA goes bankrupt by defaulting on its debt, it is the same as a private business declaring Chapter 11. I don't like calling people stupid but too many in the current crop of GOPer legislators are just plain ignorant.

kr-w875346 - well said but I think Grover Norquist has so many strings on the GOP he tax cuts expiring will cause his head to explode! Okay, let them expire!

Common sense gun safety laws which would ban assault weapons, large ammo clips, make licensing harder, strengthen background checks and increase penalties for breaking the law will be fought by NRA. The NRA has become the largest terrorist organization in the US. LaPierre will not be happy until there is a shootout on every corner, every day. He doesn't care about lives lost - just how much he makes from the gun supporters!

the fiscal cliff is bull, just as so many other fears have been in the past. let all bush taxes expirer, borrow money, stimulate this economy, re-place our infastructure,

The fiscal cliff also cuts government spending substantially. That will hardly stimulate the economy. The same is true of raising taxes on the middle class who, after all, are the real "job creators" with their spending.

Campdog - the problem is those 2 or 3 days of work are very "taxing" on the people in Congress and true to the GNOP pledge of not raising taxes...they also now want to refuse to work but still get paid...I think its called Congresisonal Welfare......They must be part of the 47% the Mythe railed about during the campaign...

campdog, well said.

Those right-wingers whining about President Obama's vacation are disingenuous trolls. Didn't hear them complaining when Speaker Boehner abruptly adjourned the House and headed home and, as it appears right now, are not likely to return UNLESS democrats do their work for them.

I sincerely wish there could be some sort of magic solution to waking up the teabaggers. Half of them are a lost cause due to the racial issue alone, but I do hope the other half will eventually come out of the fog and see how badly they have been duped by Fox "news" the people they voted for. One would think that the teabaggers would be furious that their reps aren't jumping right in to pass legislation...doing the jobs our tax dollars are paying them to do. Instead, they will let the Democrats do all of the work and cry when legislation does not reflect their core values.

Are the teabaggers really that dumb?

Dumber.

You Got It -- At Least We Have 2014 / 2016!

And If The NRA Gets Its Way We Will Be Looking & Acting A Lot More Like The Middle East!

GUNs In The Hands Of All!

Al, terrific comparison. At this point, Boehner's only option is to rally his more reasonable members and work with Pelosi on legislation that will pass with mostly democratic votes; he will have to do this often in the next few months. It really is the only way Boehner can get anything done.

The only way we are going to see any real change in either house of Congress in 2014/16 is for every citizen to get involved YESTERDAY in the Popular Amendment Movement at www.faircampaignreform.us and help get the Election/Campaign Finance Reform constitutional amendment passed within the next year. Where have all of you been the past 28 months (first posted on the website 8/10)? I've been trying to get all of you Newsviners involved ever since I helped to develop the two amendments in July/August 2010. Have any of you done so yet? Here is the text of many of my posts trying to get you involved:

There is only one way to end the "money buying elections" issue and I've been trying to get everyone of you involved for over two years. If you haven't gone to www.faircampaignreform.us yet and gotten involved in the Popular Amendment Movement, why not? This is the ONLY way that the American citizens can ever take back the power of our electoral system. Congress will never do anything that will get past the current activist conservative SCOTUS to correct the problem. It is time to take the implied method that our founding fathers gave us, per James Wilson: http://www.usconstitution.net/constam.html

Popular Amendment

One other way of amendment is also not mentioned in the Constitution, and, because it has never been used, is lost on many students of the Constitution. Framer James Wilson, however, endorsed popular amendment, and the topic is examined at some length in Akhil Reed Amar's book, The Constitution: A Biography.

The notion of popular amendment comes from the conceptual framework of the Constitution. Its power derives from the people; it was adopted by the people; it functions at the behest of and for the benefit of the people. Given all this, if the people, as a whole, somehow demanded a change to the Constitution, should not the people be allowed to make such a change? As Wilson noted in 1787, "... the people may change the constitutions whenever and however they please. This is a right of which no positive institution can ever deprive them." (I just bolded this for added emphasis.)

It makes sense - if the people demand a change, it should be made. The change may not be the will of the Congress, nor of the states, so the two enumerated methods of amendment might not be practical, for they rely on these institutions. The real issue is not in the conceptual. It is a reality that if the people do not support the Constitution in its present form, it cannot survive. The real issue is in the practical. Since there is no process specified, what would the process be? There are no national elections today - even elections for the presidency are local. There is no precedent for a national referendum. It is easy to say that the Constitution can be changed by the people in any way the people wish. Actually making the change is another story altogether.

Suffice it to say, for now, that the notion of popular amendment makes perfect sense in the constitutional framework, even though the details of effecting popular amendment could be impossible to resolve.

It was upon this basis that I and a group of other Newsvine posters developed these two amendment proposals in July/august 2010 when we saw what Citizens United was leading to in the Congressional and state-wide races. I then paid to host the website for promoting the Popular Amendment Movement effort. Keeping the website running is my contribution to the cause, since I live in the US Virgin Islands where we have NO vote for president, NO representation in the Senate, and NO VOTE on the floor of the House (only a vote in whatever committee(s) our Delegate to Congress can be assigned to.) Yet our entire governance is determined by Congress through the Organic Act. We are basically second class citizens in the US territories. I lost my voice in government when I chose to move from OH to St. Croix in 1995 (for better weather.) PAM is a totally grassroots organization. We do not solicit any contributions and we have no formal organization. The website is the basic "organization." Download the petitions below from the site, sign them, circulate them among family, friends, neighbors, and co-workers. Email to everyone you know. Help form a local grassroots movement to collect the signatures and petitions, then work with other communities to form county/regional groups and a state-wide movement. Check with your Secretary of State to determine how many valid signatures would be required for YOUR state to call for the constitutional convention that would be required to pass these amendments. BE SURE TO MAKE COPIES OF EVERY PETITION AND HAVE THEM "DATE STAMPED" when you file the original petitions so that you have a record of what signatures were filed and when. That is your protection to make sure that your Secretary of State can't deny you your rights under the Constitution. OFA and all other grassroots groups should have been assisting in this effort for the past two years. It is not too late to get this done before the 2014/16 election cycle.

Petition for US Constitutional Amendment For Election Reform

We, the undersigned US citizens, duly registered voters in our respective states/territories, do hereby petition for our state to approve the following amendment to the United States Constitution by the method noted below.

Election Reform:
1. Abolish the Electoral College (Repeal Amendment 12)
2. ONE NATIONAL primary date to be held on the Tuesday eight (8) weeks prior to the General Election day for Congressional offices and for the President. Candidate petitions must be filed with the local/state elections boards 60 days prior to the Primary Election date. Federal election petitions shall be uniform in every state and shall include a “contract with the voters” that spells out clearly what that candidate stands for on all issues that they may have to address in elected office. They shall be held accountable in court for breach of that contract if elected and any/all terms are not met.
3. NO campaigning allowed for any elective federal office more than 60 days prior to the National Primary Date.
4. NO campaign contribution shall be donated to any candidate of more than $200 from an individual or $500 maximum from a family (spouses/children living in the same household.) No donations shall be made to a candidate more than sixty days prior to the primary date. No candidate shall contribute from their own funds more than 60% of the total donations from other private individuals.
5. NO campaign contribution from any PAC, corporation, union, non-profit organization, special interest group, etc. shall be allowed for any elected federal office.
6. NO third party campaigning (separate PAC ads, corporate ads, etc.) for/against any candidate shall be allowed at any time during or before the election season.
7. NO party conventions shall be held to select the presidential candidates. The selection must be done at the ballot box in the primary election.
8. The One Man/One Vote Supreme Court ruling shall be enforced by this Amendment, namely that NO federal candidate selection shall be by any means other than the ballot box on Primary/General Election Dates.
9. National Party Organizations shall NOT raise money for or donate to specific candidates of their party prior to the dates outlined above.
10. PAC’s shall NOT be granted tax-exempt status by the IRS, and any non-profit organization who uses their funding for political purposes shall lose their tax-exempt status.
11. All lobbyists shall be outlawed from influencing Congress at all times.

This amendment shall be approved ONLY by State Constitutional Conventions to be called within 90 days of this petition being submmitted to a state’s Secretary of State. A minimum of 25% of the registered voters in each state shall be required to further this petition to the respective Secretary of State.

Name Signature State Address

Petition for US Constitutional Amendment For Congressional Term Limits

We, the undersigned US citizens, duly registered voters in our respective states/territories, do hereby petition for our state to approve the following amendment to the United States Constitution by the method noted below.

Term Limits for Congress:
1. Representatives to Congress shall serve no more than two two-year terms in the House.
2. Senators shall be elected to no more than two six year terms in the Senate.
3. No elected official shall serve more than six terms in office in any combined elected offices (House/Senate/Presidency.)

This amendment shall be approved ONLY by State Constitutional Conventions to be called within 90 days of this petition being submmitted to a state’s Secretary of State. A minimum of 25% of the registered voters in each state shall be required to further this petition to the respective Secretary of State.

Name Signature State Address

anti-trust proponent

While I feel your frustration I don't believe I agree with you totally on all the "amendment" you propose.

For Example:

1. Abolish the Electoral College (Repeal Amendment 12)

That was put into the Constitution to level the playing field for the small states who could not compete, population wise, with the big states. The populations of Virginia and Pennsylvania were much greater than the populations of Rhode Island and Vermont. If states like Alaska, Wyoming and Montana don't mind going up against New York, California and Texas than abolishing the 12th Amendment might be a good idea.

2. ONE NATIONAL primary date to be held on the Tuesday eight (8) weeks prior to the General Election day for Congressional offices and for the President. Candidate petitions must be filed with the local/state elections boards 60 days prior to the Primary Election date. Federal election petitions shall be uniform in every state and shall include a “contract with the voters” that spells out clearly what that candidate stands for on all issues that they may have to address in elected office. They shall be held accountable in court for breach of that contract if elected and any/all terms are not met.

Here we agree. I get so sick and tired of all the campaigning starting before the first of the year and continuing most of the year. I don't even live in a "swing state".

3. NO campaigning allowed for any elective federal office more than 60 days prior to the National Primary Date.
4. NO campaign contribution shall be donated to any candidate of more than $200 from an individual or $500 maximum from a family (spouses/children living in the same household.) No donations shall be made to a candidate more than sixty days prior to the primary date. No candidate shall contribute from their own funds more than 60% of the total donations from other private individuals.

Here we also agree. I would make sure corporate entities are spelled out so we don't get fuzzy interpretation and more of "Citizens United" kind of thing or where Grover Norquist may not be able to contribute on his own but as a corporation he could give millions. I know that what you say says that but I would like more specificity on this particular issue.

5. NO campaign contribution from any PAC, corporation, union, non-profit organization, special interest group, etc. shall be allowed for any elected federal office.

Agreed except the PAC needs to be defined as Political Action Committees or special interest groups.

6. NO third party campaigning (separate PAC ads, corporate ads, etc.) for/against any candidate shall be allowed at any time during or before the election season.

Agreed

7. NO party conventions shall be held to select the presidential candidates. The selection must be done at the ballot box in the primary election.

The media would hate this. Besides it is fun to watch as politicians insert their feet into their mouths. The conventions are also important to understand the entire party's platform as we will be electing more than just the President.

8. The One Man/One Vote Supreme Court ruling shall be enforced by this Amendment, namely that NO federal candidate selection shall be by any means other than the ballot box on Primary/General Election Dates.
9. National Party Organizations shall NOT raise money for or donate to specific candidates of their party prior to the dates outlined above.

I agree on both 8 and 9.

10. PAC’s shall NOT be granted tax-exempt status by the IRS, and any non-profit organization who uses their funding for political purposes shall lose their tax-exempt status.

Definately

11. All lobbyists shall be outlawed from influencing Congress at all times.

While I tend to agree I am not so sure this will fly with either Congress or the Supreme Court. When people fail to let their representatives know how they feel about an issue except for a few political junkies the lobbyists have taken over as spokspersons for the various causes and issues that face the country. If people were more involved in our democracy a total ban on lobbying would work very well as it woudn't be necessary.

Term Limits for Congress:
1. Representatives to Congress shall serve no more than two two-year terms in the House.
2. Senators shall be elected to no more than two six year terms in the Senate.
3. No elected official shall serve more than six terms in office in any combined elected offices (House/Senate/Presidency.)

We have term limits. Every two years for House members and every 6 for Senators. If you don't like the incumbent you vote for someone else. If enough people do that the old guy is out and a new guy is in.

How we amend the Constitution is quite clear and all we have to do to make such an amendment is follow the very document being amended.

Good job, well thought out. Now convince enough others in all 50 states and it shall be done. Good luck! You'll get my signature.

Adler, the reason for Section 1 is because that "small state" issue is just as relevant under the "one man/one vote" SCOTUS ruling as delegates to the EC. In fact, until every state has to proportionally assign their delegates per the popular vote, the EC is actually a violation of the OMOV ruling.

As for amending the Constitution, the second method outlined in the Constitution of the states calling for a Constitutional Convention is how Congress gets sidestepped in the process. The SCOTUS has no power in preventing any amendment to the Constitution, only the state legislatures have that power (by the 3/4 required approval clause.) As noted in the italicized portion of my comments, our founding fathers DID indirectly allow for the PEOPLE to amend the Constitution, and these two petitions are part of that process.

Don't just add your signature. Do as I request and download it from the website, sign it, then circulate it among your family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc. and then help organize your local/county/state grass-roots group to collect the petitions and present them to YOUR Secretary of State. IF you can get enough signatures per your state's requirements for such initiatives (it varies from state to state), then that Secretary has to call for a Constitutional Convention and the movement is on. If all of you can get enough people in all 50 states to do this, you CAN get the amendment(s) passed before the 2014, or at least the 2016 federal elections. The reason for the Term Limits is to set the same limits for Congress as was constitutionally applied to the presidency. Why should that be the only office with such constitutional limitations. And one reason for it was to eliminate the possibility of career politicians. Some in the early discussion were trying to determine a way to make the six term apply to ANY elected office combination (preventing someone from going from dog catcher to mayor to state representative to state senator to governor to federal House to federal Senate to President. ) That really would have been nice, hehe.

As I stated above, I am doing my part by repeatedly posting here on Newsvine trying to get others involved and being the sole financial supporter of the website to keep the petitions alive. I even originally posted it on the We the People website petitions page, hoping enough people would get involved at that time, but to no such luck. I have been promoting this here since we finalized the petitions in their present form in early August 2010 and I created the hosted website to promote the process. There is NO other funding for this attempt. There are NO corporations backing it (unlike all of the other "amendment" sites. There are NO Koch brothers, etc. involved like some of the other sites. It is the total responsibility of each and every signer of the petitions to personally cover their own expenses to promote this drive within their community. That is what the Popular Amendment Movement is all about...total grassroots independence.

BTW, the parties could still hold their stupidity conventions for other platform declarations, etc. They just can't use them to "select" the President/VP candidates to be on the General Election ballot. Plus the four month campaign season of the National Primary/General Election time period also prevents such an event. SEction 1 isn't also about just abolishing the 12th Amendment, it is about abolishing the entire concept of the Electoral College and the Presidential/VP selection. As far as a more defining description of non-individual donations, the "etc." includes any and all groups and any other means of affecting the campaigns. The small individual limitations of $200/$500 and the candidate out-of-pocket limitations also help to control that.

BTW, in the final draft by the Constitutional Convention, PAC would most likely be fully described, not just the acronym, the same with SuperPAC's, even though both have become the common terms, not the full names. Section 5 covers your potential objection to Section 4 in that Norquist, the Koch brothers, etc. would be limited to the same $200/$500 limitation as any other individual/family under the same roof and would be banned from going behind the scenes by "contributing to a corporation or PAC/SuperPAC, non-profit, etc." since SEction 5 bans any such contributions and Section 6 bans their third-party intervention. It was people like Meg Whitman and others in 2010 that led to these three sections being written the way they are, along with the SCOTUS Citizen's United ruling. Section 5 could even be modified at the Convention to specifically overturn that SCOTUS ruling.

billybob - well how funny you should target me! I don't believe any post was childish, bitter or hate filled but I guess when you have an agenda - as you clearly do - you would read things the way you want to. Apparently Santa found you to be as nasty as the rest of us have and you got nothing for Christmas and choose to blame me. Too sad!

The only poor lost souls I see here are you and Bruce but - of course - you can't see that! Pitiful really!

billy, perhaps a short visit to an older thread, President Obama greets Marines in Hawaii on Christmas, is in order ... your side of the house is quite messy filthy.

black -- not sure what you mean by my side of the house but i did see the photo op arranged by the white house.

just once it would be nice to read days or weeks later of an obama visit to the troops that was genuine in spirit and not for his personal gain.

bcwc - HI!!! Hope you had a very Merry Christmas. Don't worry about billybob or Bruce - they wear blinders and only see what they want to see. And, they read into posts things that aren't there. Clearly it's a Republican affliction.

billybob - I would laugh but you are such a sad excuse for a human being it really isn't funny. The President has visited the troops every year at Christmas and this time was no different. No photo op - just a President that actually CARES for our men and women who serve the country. He has done more for our military than any President in recent history.

Your hate for this President say everything about you and nothing about him. He is a great man, and President and your jealousy is obvious!

seeking -- let's see:

balsphemy to use the words "House GOP" and "leadership" -- childish

Boehner has no soul -- hate

there should be sub-machine gunner on each truck! -- bitter and hate

giving them credit for the ability to "think." I'm pretty sure that is FAR beyond their level of competence! -- childish and hate

tax cuts expiring will cause his head to explode! Okay, let them expire! -- childish and hate

The NRA has become the largest terrorist organization in the US -- hate

they wear blinders and only see what they want to see. And, they read into posts things that aren't there. Clearly it's a Republican affliction. -- childish

have a nice day.

billybob - only in your small mind. Maybe you should go back and read the posts on the site about the President visiting our troops. Oh wait, maybe you should read your own posts about the President visiting the troops - hate, dishonesty, childish, bitter and hate-filled, I could go on!

Try growing up and maybe you'll be worth reading - probably not but maybe! I would wish you a nice day but clearly you don't even try to be realistic - much less nice! Grow up!

seeking -- i see that you just cannot help yourself. insults added to the previous list. do you believe it was not a photo op? that photographers just happened to be there at the right time?

guidance from you is a bit entertaining.

as your good buddy often says -- 'nuff said.

do try to have a nice day, i know i will.

"just once it would be nice to read days or weeks later of an obama visit to the troops that was genuine in spirit and not for his personal gain."

Okay, I'll bite - what exactly did President Obama have to "gain" personally from that visit? More votes for his re-election campaign? No, that can't be it; he can't run again. Did he ask them all to write their congressional representatives and ask them to support his agenda? Did he charge them admission to attend?

The man is on call 24/7/365. He takes a few days to go home for the holidays with the kids he doesn't get to see nearly enough of, and then he still takes some more time away from them to go thank the troops who protect and serve us every day. As pretty much any President from either party has done countless times before him and sadly, will probably need to do countless more times in the future.

I'm sorry, but I'm really not seeing the "personal gain" part here. But maybe if he'd played a few rounds of golf, that would have been more "genuine in spirit" in your book?

billybob - are you so out of touch with reality that you don't know photographers are always around the President? You need more guidance than I or anyone on this site can give you. You just can't help showing how totally unaware you are!

Oh, and I'm having a GREAT day - usually do!

JoAnne - you're talking to a brick wall. billybob is so filled with hate for the President he refuses to see reality - it doesn't exist for him.

Hope your holidays are going well and that you're having a great time with your family!

'nuff said!

Don't be naive JoAnne.

joanne -- a narcissist needs constant feedback from the adoring public. obama is a classic example.

the evil bush is known to have greeted and visited veterans multiple times without the entourage.

seeking -- no hate here just grave disappointment in the man in the office.

billybob -

I yield to your superior knowledge of narcissism.

And while I can think of any number of things to criticize President Bush about, visiting troops at Christmas would never have occured to me. I mean, that would make me seem petty and mean-spirited and vindictive, wouldn't it?

I think I'd MUCH rather be naive.....

Jeepers, I was scrolling down the page, thinking that maybe Santa DID bring me what I asked for, and it just took me until today to find it!

Not a single blessed one of the usual Hatriots out here, spewing their recycled Beckisms, or regurgitated rot from Rush! Nothing as far as the eye can read except my friends and Fellow Travellers!

Then, of course, like the Grinch showing up with a foreclosure notice and a scorching case of herpes, here come billybob and ozzieyo-###.

(Sigh)Well, for a few blissful seconds, I was able to enjoy a preview of the world my grand-nephews will inhabit; one where the Republican Party has been consigned to the history books as a curiousity, alongside their spiritual and intellectual forebears, the Know- Nothings.

In the face of this stupendous failure of duty and even common decency by the diseased ruins of the Party of Lincoln, apparently only the true hard-core haters will come out from under their rocks to impotently shake their tiny, wizened little fists at the shadow of America's finest leader since F.D.R., and squeak out their futile imprecations as he leads our country back to respect, greatness, and glory.

Happy New Year, y'all. It's just gonna keep getting better for all of us who still love Truth, Justice, and the American Way.

Glad to bring you back down there Foxtrots

impotently shake their tiny, wizened little fists

Are you referring to 47% of the American voting public?

No, ozzie, the polls indicate that Republicans are just as disgusted and fed up with their so-called 'Representatives' as we Liberals are, and for pretty much the same reasons!

How 'bout YOU, Buttercup? Are these fellers making you proud? Are you lifting up your chin and hollering, "Them's my boys!"

And while I gotcha on the phone- what's with your aversion to capitals? First Read doesn't charge extra for 'em, you know.

Peace!

For someone that has "no whining" as an avatar, "billybob" whines more than a spoiled, 5-year-old Paris Hilton. Poor wittle bay-bee...Did someone actually tell the truth about his wittle party?

Without your characteristic whining, "billybob"...Can you explain to all of us how your teabagger reps are supposed to push through your fascist evangelical agenda when they can't even be bothered to show up for the work you are paying them to do?

I would think that you would be furious about this, "billybob". Why aren't you? Your avatar proves you to be a lover of hypocrisy...Can we hope for some integrity in your New Year's resolutions??

Whoohoo, Shockedand; dude, I thought I was one mean, caustic SOB!

I bet if you, RedDev, and Seeking Sanity got together, you guys could eat a whole busload of RWNJs and polish off a few Philadelphia Eagle fans for dessert.

You rock, boy! Too bad your splenetic splendour is being wasted on a clot like billybob, who hasn't got the sense God gave to a door hinge.

FoxTrotsky - no thank you. I have better taste - just sayin.....

A whole BUSLOAD?!?!? Damn...That would be like downing a bucket of KFC without the meat! (all bones and batter)...

On behalf of all honest, hardworking door hinges everywhere, I have to take exception to your comparison to "billybob". Door hinges actually serve a purpose and if they squeak, a little grease shuts them right up.

Maybe that's where "billybob" ran off to....

;)

You guys understand that I'm not wishing anything of the kind on you; Heaven forbid!

But these *^%$#@! know-it-alls keep on coming around here with bulls-eyes painted on their chins, and then they whine and snivel that mean, uncivil Liberal thugs like you guys are hitting them BACK.

And that's how we've gotta do it; making a better America by educating one conservative drone at a time.

Y'all make me proud to be a two-fisted, Levis-wearing, Metallica-listening, blue-collar-working, Plymouth- driving, red-meat-eating, NFL- cheering left-wing Liberal badass son of a bitch.

Bring it, you conservative crybabies! I gotcher red-white-and-blue RIGHT HERE.

I don't listen to Metallica or drive a Plymouth, but I sure do love the NFL. Can I come to the party?

I find it hysterical that, after they had their rhetoric regurgitated and fed back to them after the elections, now the little teabaggers are being told to play the victim of us mean ol' lib-ruhls.

I'm all for being civil toward those who deserve civility and the teabaggers should be called out for the willfully ignorant, brainwashed, hateful idiots that they are. The more we expose little crybabies like "billybob" for what they are, the more people will see them and those who control them for what they are and vote accordingly.

Nope, I'm pretty sure that was President Obama after being reelected.

ozzieyo- no that was your little Mitts - right before he had his head handed to him!

CMCPO - well said and thank you for your service. I understand the President makes a visit to the base every time he is in Hawaii. I love that he does it!

Hoo Yah

You must be at least 20 years old, One or two years in the military.

You have a ways to go to grow up.

Liberals are not friends of the military son.

Retired VET.

Viewer - liberals are serving as much as conservatives are. Only in your small mind are liberals NOT friends of the military. This President has done MORE for the military and our veterans than any recent President. With every post you make you show you not only are not a veteran but that you have absolutely NO knowledge of the military!

Nah, I just served in three wars, and six conflicts.

Was a Hurricane Hunter for years (and saw the proposed liberal cuts).

Yeah, you are right.

Shame on me, I do not qualify to be in the liberal brainwash.

Viewer, Winston Churchhill said it best:

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you
have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

Viewer - you made every post you make unbelievable when you posted that you "flew security for President Bush" and he often didn't take Airforce One - a total lie. So, every post you make is suspect.

You don't qualify for believability because of THAT stupidity!

ozzieyo1- clearly Chruchhill had not met today's conservatives or he would NEVER have made such a statement since most of you don't have the brains you were born with!

Our President, Mrs. Obama and Mrs. Biden have done more good for the members of the military and vets than any President in the history of the United States.

Job1 - so true. When someone posts how bad this President is in regard to the military it is clear they have NEVER served!

Off the cliff we go!

2014 is two years away and America will rid itself of this toxic GOP Cult in Congress.

We'll be starving in the streets way before 2014.

Job1 is probably right because there is nothing you can do when the majority of people figure out that they can vote themselves goodies.

We'll be starving in the streets way before 2014.

Fortunately, the American public has re-elected an incredible President that will prevent the Norquist/Boehner/McConnell plan to do just that.

Thank you, "ozzie" for pointing out exactly what the House GOP has done. Finally, a teabagger that is mad at the House GOP for extending their little vacations rather than coming back to do the work that the hard working American people are paying them to do.

Tell me how the president is going to prevent it. The president is powerless. So tell me, shockedanddisgusted, how is Nero going to stop Rome from burning.

What little respect you have for the office of the President of the United States, "ray".

Please provide documented, verifiable comparisons between the Emperor Nero and the democratically elected President Obama. Rome is not burning and the sky is not falling, oh paranoid one. Hell - the Republicans can't even show up for work, let alone "burn Rome".

Shooting everywhere. Destruction Everywhere. Look out your window. It doesn't matter how much respect I give the president, it matters how much he gets from his peers.

I would hardly call the House GOP the President's peers, ray.

I took exception to your comparison of the Emperor Nero and President Obama. Comparing the democratically elected President of the United States to an emperor, dictator or king is juvenile, at best, and a pathetic attempt at barfing right-wing loud mouths to scare unintelligent people into thinking that our President is trying to steal something from them.

You failed to provide any documented comparison and I feel passionately, regardless of your politics, that the decent thing for you to do is to rescind the statement.

King, Emperor, Despot. It doesn't matter. He is a leader, a figurehead, whatever. He is an idea. I never said Obama was stealing anything, I said he was fiddling while Rome burned. He might be stealing time but that is different. The vandals are loose. My documentation is any encyclopedia. Read a book instead of blogs my friend.

Viewer - Your ignorance is overwhelming yet you are so eager to show it! How totally telling and how sad.

Ignorance is really not a bad word.

All of us to a certain degree are ignorant.

The ones who are shown the truth over and over again and repeat doing the same things, are nuts.

You mean as in: believing that cutting taxes on the wealthy will create jobs, in spite of all the evidence being quite to the contrary. Yes, that time honored belief of conservatives is nuts. Reagan cut taxes, saw that it didn't help at all, and immediately began raising taxes. Clinton raised rates on the wealthy and ushered in one of the greatest periods of economic prosperity this country has seen. Bush cut those rates, which are still cut. Do you really like what's happened since?

The Clinton signed the "Home for Every American Regardless of Credit or Income Act" and started the housing crisis right before he left office.

Ho soon do you people forget?

Lack of proper oversight by the historically incompetent Bush administration is more responsible than you think. Plus, the housing crisis by itself would not have been a very bad bubble, is it had not been compounded by the "investment vehicles" that hid the true risk, and the credit-default swaps that the packagers took out betting against the funds they had just sold. Those are the things that turned a simple bubble into an world-wide melt down.

Viewer, yup, all about that road of good intentions---W did a whiz bang job curtailing the excesses of Bank of America, Wells Fargo, USB Bank et al. so Clinton signed a bill, it gets trashed, scammers of every stripe come out of the woodwork and the GOP do nothing and continue to block banking reform. Here in Florida we have a brand new way managing mortgages--called robo-foreclosures, it operates as its name sake, the darling of Republican favorite, Rick Scott--you know the guy, did everything but try to declare Election Day, null and void.

Jon, I still haven't figured out how tax increases create jobs can you explain that?

Increased taxes creates less government borrowing, hence more money available for the private market to borrow, creating jobs. Plus the government can invest in infrastructure and research, creating jobs.

Oh, what's that? You don't think that government investment creates jobs? You can say that, as you type on a personal computer, and send messages over the internet and WWW, all created by government investment? Louis Gerstner disagrees with you. Marc Andriessen disagrees with you, as do countless other corporate executives.

Wise government investment doesn't just create jobs, it creates whole industries.

Viewer, you do realize that the founding fathers of our great nation were the liberals of their times. Without liberals and liberalism we would still be living in caves and trying to figure out how to make fire on our own. Oh and in case you haven't heard....the world is round not flat.

Weather you were or were not a member of the President's security team I don't know and I don't call people liars when I don't know the facts, just as I don't disrespect people by calling the tea-baggers (a disgusting term) or libturds (just immature). I will say however with your attitude towards your (our) commander and chief and if you were on his team he was YOUR (OUR) COMMANDER AND CHIEF I am glad and more secure knowing you are not part of that detail any longer. Now go back to where you came from and leave the news vine to people that want to debate and share their ideas and beliefs!

She is out giving food stamps away to the homeless for Holiday cheer.

At OUR expense.

viewer - again you show your stupidity! Perfect little Republican!

Yes, just like you are the perfect "imperfect" liberal.

Snot nosed, young, and born with no vison.

Some of us DO grow up and open our puppy eyes.

One day when you grow up, you will know how to effectivly use words to fight with.

Viewer - I already do and I would NEVER post the lie you did about flying "security" for Presdient Bush. Talk about "snot nosed and no vision" and we're clearly talking about you!

Lie?

LOL look up on google Banner Express.

You have no clue.

EVERY year a president is up for two term re-election this happens.

It took three C-130s, AF ONE AND TWO and a contingiency of Marine ONE and all security to do this.

It lasted 53 days in a hotel in Mayland in my case.

When you call someone a liar, know what TF you are talking about junior.

Viewer - you lie. The President is required to take AirForce one for security measures. Isn't allowed to take other aircraft. You again show what a liar you are - old jerk! Oh, now you're saying AF one WAS involved - when you clearly stated it wasn't before. You are a liar - and no SIR about it!

LOL

YOU are getting on my honorably discharged nerves.

And are not worth talking to.

AF one leads in.

(For photo ops AND for security).

The cargo planes fly in the armoured SUV's and limousines.

Marine One and MArine two follow.

WE were always there hours ahead of them.

When the president landed, he transferred to Marine ONE or TWO (whichever was airworthy.

Then he had a Marine Blackhawk (or similar escort to his engagements) to AND from, BACK to AF one.

And it all started over again every day.

STFU puppy.

Viewer - go back and read your ignorant post and you'll see why NO ONE is going to believe anything you post. See, you clearly lied!

And, I'd much rather be a puppy than a liar like you!

What TF do you want pictures? or records or what?

MY POSTS are all facts.

And you are ignorant of those facts.

HERE.

This was done for your boy, and for Bush and for evey other incumbent president, and I WAS THERE.

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/DRArchive/Pages/2012/March%202012/March%2008%202012/CampaignTrailAirlift.aspx

Wake up dilbert

Viewer - you were nowhere near the President and many of us called you on your lies. Wake up - it's over!

LOL

YOU are trying hard to piss me off.

And I do not care how many of your liberal followers, lemmings trie to "call" me on facts.

You are all fools if you don't even know how your own government and military works.

I am a proud vet, and have been close to quite a few presidents in my time.

Some ok, most all not.

But Obama is not worth crap.

Hi SS,

It appears that Viewer is actually arguing with himself/ herself.

There is no argument.

Either you are for the USA or you are not.

I, for one will not become more socialist than we already disgustingly are.

Job1 - as are most Republicans. They cannot disguise their hate and post more and more nonsense each day!

And, to quote viewer - he isn't "worth the crap!"

Actually, most Progressives are for the USA. However, I have my doubts about many of the republicans. They appear to be bitter and spew a lot of hate talk toward the majority of people that voted for President Obama and the people that don't agree with them.

There are two helicopters and two planes exactly alike. Whichever the President is on is Airforce 1 for the plane (even if it is a commercial plane or private plane not normally equipped like the usual ones) and whichever helicopter the President is abord becomes Marine 1 as soon as he boards it. If he boards a ship the vessle could be called NAVY 1 OR Coast Guard 1. No matter who the President is the security is pretty much the same and the protocal is the same. No matter where he goes and who he goes with the security is and should be there with him. The President, like it or not, is the most powerful person on this planet and deserves all the security he gets to keep him safe from the whackos out there. Security can involve a lot of people, depending on the situation.

And the house will.

On their terms.

If you people would learn how this tit for tat works you would not worry so very much.

The government is threatened with budget shutdowns EVERY year.

And every year the plane is pulled out of the nose dive.

This is a game of chicken.

And this time both parties will have to figure out a way to reconcile.

Or, they don't get paid.

I have a serious question.

Did you liberals get something sent to you in the mail other than foods stamps that you ate, or could have

gotten on your fingers when you opened the envelope?

Because something has you ALL seriously screwed up.

Viewer - your idiotcy about the "food stamps" says everything about you. Most of us work and earn our own living but we don't begrudge helping those who have less and need help. You are an angry, uninformed idiot!

Not angry, )only at you because you fail to see truth).

Hell even I was on food stamps at one time.

Sometimes we all may need them.

That is what they are for.

BUT NOT TO LIVE GENERATION TO GENERATION ON!

Hey Viewer! Got an American history pop quiz for ya, uh, Pop.
Since you're always blowing your mouth off like the World's Foremost Authority on military matters, I'm sure you'll score a perfect 100, right?

OK, here we go! 1. Which American political party wanted to just leave the British to their fate, cut the best deal we could with Hitler, let him keep Europe- and incidentally, to Hell with the Jews 'cause they're all Socialists anyway?

2. Which American President drew the line at the 38th Parallell in Korea, and told Stalin and Mao he'd incinerate their armies if they didn't back way the hell off? Was it a. Democrat Harry Truman, or b. Republican Dwight Eisenhower?

3. Which American President ran and was elected on a promise to go over to Korea personally and straighten everything out- and did so by giving the Commies back everything they'd lost on the battlefield, thereby ensuring that the problem would last for another sixty years (and counting!), and that 34,000 American boys and 500,000 Allied troops died for nothing? Was it a. Truman, or b. Eisenhower?

(Gosh, Viewer, isn't History a kick in the ass? No wonder we Liberals are all so pro-education!)

Next question! 4. Which American President told the Bolshies in Moscow that if they even thought about making a move on the Persian Gulf oilfields, he would regard it as an attack on American soil and retaliate appropriately- meaning, with nukes? Was it a. Jimmy Carter or b. Ronald Reagan?

5. Which American President sent the Marines to Beirut, and after 241 of them were killed by a terrorist bomb, cravenly sneaked the rest of them out of the country under cover of the night because he was upset at what that would do to his poll numbers? Was it a. Jimmy Carter or b. Ronald Reagan?

You see where I'm going, Viewer? All throughout our nation's history, Republican presidents bow and scrape and lick the boots of tyrants, use the Armed Forces to prop up their poll numbers, and run like cattle rustlers when things get hot. Progressives stand up to evil and never leave the battlefield until the job is done. I have a hundred more examples like these five, Viewer, and they're all true.

You and many, many more like you have been used like so many pawns and afterwards thrown away like disposable diapers. You should be angry, nay, enraged, and supporting the Liberals who support you and your comrades.

You'll be eating your neighbor's face way before then.