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Updated 1:19 p.m. — A path toward resolving the impending the co-called fiscal cliff was suspended in limbo Friday following a dramatic defeat for House Speaker John Boehner, whose own rank-and-file members refused to support his backup plan Thursday night.
After conservatives balked at Boehner's "Plan B," which would have preserved current income tax rates for those making less than $1 million, the nation's top elected Republican shrugged off questions about whether his job was in danger. And as Washington prepares for a holiday break, Democrats and Republicans are further apart than ever on a plan to avoid the combination of tax increases and spending cuts scheduled to take effect in just 11 days.
And the Ohio Republican emerged Friday urging President Barack Obama and Senate Democrats to re-engage in talks toward an overarching deal toward resolving the fiscal cliff, the combination of automatic tax hikes and spending cuts (which fall heavily upon the defense budget) set to take effect on Jan. 1.
"I'm interested in solving the major problems facing our country," Boehner said at a press conference on Capitol Hill. "And that means House leaders, Senate leaders and the president are going to continue to have to work together to address those concerns."
With just 10 days until the nation goes over the so-called "fiscal cliff," lawmakers head home for the holidays. For the president, his stay in Hawaii will be a "working vacation." NBC's Kristen Welker reports.
In the Senate, Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., demanded that Boehner allow a Democratic proposal to extend tax rates for income under $250,000 to come up for a vote.
"There's nothing preventing the speaker from taking up our bill," Reid said Friday afternoon on the Senate floor. Boehner did say the House would "certainly take a look" at that bill, if the Senate manages to resolve a procedural holdup that would bar the House from considering the legislation. (Reid called that excuse "phony.")
But the speaker's task has become more vexing than ever; conservatives sent a powerful signal yesterday that they would not approve any tax increase, even on millionaires. Obama's demand that tax rates be allowed to rise for the wealthiest Americans amounts to a seemingly intractable standoff with House Republicans.
Boehner said that many lawmakers still prefer broad reforms to the tax code, but he acknowledged the difficulty in reaching any consensus: "How we get there? God only knows."
The president plans to work with Congress to prevent tax hikes and spending cuts that are expected to kick in on January 1 after House Republicans rejected a vote on House Speaker John Boehner's "Plan B" legislation. NBC's Kelly O'Donnell reports.
The speaker seemed unconcerned, though, about the prospects for an uprising from fellow Republicans.
"No, I am not," Boehner said when asked directly whether he should be concerned about his position. "If you do the right things every day for the right reasons, the right things will happen."
Republican leaders dismissed House lawmakers for the holiday weekend after pulling the vote on Thursday evening. Boehner said they would be recalled to Washington "as needed." The Democratic-controlled Senate is currently scheduled to reconvene next Thursday, Dec. 27.
"It's too bad Speaker Boehner wasted a week on this futile, political stunt," Reid said. "It's time for the speaker and all Republicans to return to the negotiating table."
The intervening time period might allow for Boehner and Obama to reach an agreement, though its final approval in the House would almost certainly involve the speaker turning to Democrats for votes. That would strengthen Obama's ability to insist upon tax rates, spending cuts and entitlement reforms that hew more closely to the plan on which he campaigned for much of this year.
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said Boehner has "done his part. He's bent over backwards." As an alternative, the top Senate Republican proposed extending tax rates for a full year with instructions to enact tax reform in the meanwhile. (Democrats rejected it out-of-hand.)
For their part, Republicans said they would look to Obama for action on a path forward.
"I don't want taxes to go up, Republicans don't want taxes to go up," Boehner said. "But we only run the House; Democrats continue to run Washington."
McConnell said: "It's the president's job — it's his job — to find a solution that can pass the Congress."
In the meanwhile, Boehner said he remained committed to working toward a deal, and said he was not interested in giving up his position as speaker.
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Too bad Weeper!...The crazies in your caucus aren't interested!
This GOP Failure may not mean real damages to US economy; but REAL DAMAGES have been done to the Party of GOP.
Merry Christmas to all of you.
But the GOP scrooges have a different message: Merry CLIFF-MESS & humbug.
Boehner's god is a member of the top 1%. He worships them, he is going to consult them to know the next move. But we already know what his next move is: same old, same old.
"I don't want taxes to go up, Republicans don't want taxes to go up," he said. "But we only run the House; Democrats continue to run Washington."
Speaker Boehner has Finally admitted, that He has a Problem! That is the 1st step in the Road to recovery.
With Jon Stewart & Steven Colbert on vacation, this Republican Comedy Act is the best thing going on from where I sit. It is absolutely Hilarious!
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE !
From:
Occupy SoggyBottom!
The ignorance of these GOP representatives that Voters continue to put in positions of influence is astounding. Simply astounding.
There is not even a reason to place a logical argument on the table. Have a thought that can progress from A to B to C, etc.
They are classic do as I say, not as I do people. These people know no shame, none.
"How we get there? God only knows."
I dare say God doesn't know either. He/She is still wringing His/Her hands wondering how in the hell He/She could have possibly created the immoral monsters that represent the GOPTP
ideologyidiocy.Hi, Rick,Ky,
I agree with you. Boehner and his House have ironically proved Reagan's adage that 'Government is the problem.' The GOP part of the government is the problem.
Merry Christmas to all. Have a safe and happy holiday!
I watched Boehner's news conference live and the main thing that struck me is how arrogant and self centered egomaniacs politicians tend to be. So Boehner put on a brave face, but it's obvious that now he's been reduced to being a mouthpiece for his fanatical colleagues, with no pretense of Boehner himself exercising any leadership. His job is probably safe though, because who else would want it?
NRA is giving its first press conference after Newtown...on C-Span...
.
some protester briefly took over the stage, with a banner that reads:
NRA kills our kids.
.
Then he was taken away
Then the NRA spokesperson continues with justification of NRA positions, blaming everything violent on Follywood.
"You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch..." or so the song says.
Well, Mr. Speaker, how does it feel to be the Grinch who stole Christmas this year?
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Joyous Kwanza, or however you choose to celebrate the Winter Solstice, Happy Holidays and Happy New New.
Obama can work with Boehner. Boehner is MUCH better to work with than some of the other crazy Tea Party Congressmen/women.
Did you see the Republican Kansas congressman on Morning Joe this morning? He said he wouldn't raise taxes even if the Dems gave them all of the spending cuts they want and he wouldn't say he's for a ban on assault weapons!!!!
How would you like to work with that idiot everyday?
NRA press conference on C-Span continues:
... a different protestor rushed herself onto the stage with a banner that reads:
..and she was taken away..quickly
the NRA spokesperson continues to blame the Newtown tragedy on failures by everyone else
Well if people would not insist on own rights first , and swing to left, and right, so far away ,they just might see center?
It amazes me that Republicans can look themselves in the mirror. They give a giant FU to the American people holding onto the Corporate Bribes intent on protecting Multi-Millionaires.
What a bunch of terrible human beings the GOP is and I hope their support tanks when people who voted for them pony up another $100 bucks each month. This is the POS group you voted for??
Hurting the conscience of others was suppose to be a TRUE Christian Principal Ethic,main Teaching, were is it today in Congress who profess great learning and Integrity?
@Steve,
Cantor and Ryan among others.
Merry Christmas to all.
Perhaps if the Republicans would chose to respect and comply with the will of the people, the deal could be done today
Majority of USA want a good deal for others below the Gold ring status users, They have elected Leaders to do the PEOPLES will at election Time,were is it?
IS Lincoln being put to death in writing too?
by the People for the people ,no where mention perks for public house or congressional servants ?
Dear Elephants and Donkeys-
You all have blame in the situation our country is in. Every one of you that has beat and continues to beat the drum of your respective parties' "principals".
Elephants- You can't spend Trillions on war and defense while keeping tax cuts for everyone. It's the most basic of economic principals. YOU CANNOT SPEND MORE THAN YOU MAKE. The tax rates need to go up. Corporate welfare needs to end. Corporations are making higher profits, and the Stock Exchange is higher still that its ever been, considering we are in a "recession". WAKE UP.
Donkeys- You cant give away the farm. I understand that certain people need help. I'm not blind or adverse to that. I regularly give to charity and don't use it as a write-off. I do it because it's the right thing to do, especially this time of year. My issue is that you have trained poor and less fortunate that it's in their best interest to milk the system, instead of putting in hard work to better their situation. Put a 2 year cap of benefits in a 15 year span on ALL entitlement with the exception of SS for citizens over 65. Also, the entitlement should be taxed. If its their main source of income, that would make it their "job". No reason that they shouldn't have to pay taxes for "working" right? Its only whats fair.
All of you bashing each other because you belong to a different political party need to wake the f%^& up and think for yourselves. Use some common sense. Don't over complicate things. Thats how we got to this point in the first place.
Where we go from here is up to you.
Well it's official... Johnny-Boy is a progressive Liberal compared to the rest of the inbred republican house members. We should have never expected them to agree with a man of color regardless of how idiotic the actual proposal was. We should have cleared that cave with a flame-thrower last November. Now it's two more years before the American forces can re-take the fortified 'Merkin stronghold on the island of stupid.
Remember History, The Tea party in Massachusetts (now know as (taxa-chuttes)was all British with subjects revolting ,and did unlawful deeds, over just a cup of tea. what have we today?
How do we vilify the desire to drink a cup of tea with being law abiding Christians?
Merry Xmas to all . . .
John Boehner, admitting your an @!$%# is your next step, take it !
@ spitfire18213
You give me hope. ; )
Great post, thanks.
That said, I really think we have to call out the GOP on the central issue here: the refusal to work with Obama. I've been following politics since I could crawl, and I've never seen a group this dysfunction and obstinate. They've let their f*cktard far-right components dictate their every move, as seen here (and countless other instances.) And, if you can show me a Dem Con with the @!$%#*ng fruit loops the Rep Con brought to the table, EVER, I'll concede this stance.
But yeah, there's two sides to why we're in this mess, and it's definitely purple. What's KEEPING us there is primarily red.
To stay objective as a journalist ,I do not vote for anyone ,but raise questions to apprach the heart ,minds of mere men,women.
The Massachusetts Colonial army forbearers of Tea lovers ,were the same who Massacred the Narragansettes Native in the Great swamp ,while they slept, These insecure ,greedy men murdered all men women and children on December 19,1675 while Roger Williams looked on and others . What a great present under the tree that year?
Well, too bad! There will be a tax increase on the top earners, you can take that to the bank.
The GOP seems to be playing with fire, as in they're all going to be fired come election time. Lemmings to the sea, those delusional losers.
Well, Mr. Boner, you and your buddies set up this whole thing the last time you played your stalling game, and you didn't work to put in fixes along the way. If you kick the can down the road, the can will be there when you get to that point in the road. Don't expect it to walk off on its own.
Newsflash: GOD replaces GOP in fiscal cliff talks.
Mr. Boehner - You have lost Republican support from what has to be millions at this point - even me!
Who the heck cares if only 70% of the party will cooperate??? Say "screw you" to the other 30% & compromise with the Democrats to get this done.
You look more stupid every day. You alone are giving the last portion of control (the House) to the Democrats. You alone will be responsible for the demise of the party.
Listen to the NATION, not radicals!!! Do it now!!!
Tell the extremists they "LOOSE" this time and make the deal!!!
Keep twisting that knife Eric. Keep twisting....Johnnys almost dead and you can be the new leader soon. Just keep twisting.
This is all about John Boehner's vanity - he will do anything to hang on to his job as Speaker. Nothing will happen about the Fiscal Cliff until the House reconvenes in the New Year and the Republicans have elected a Speaker - who may or may not be John Boehner. Meanwhile, the nation is held hostage to his vanity and that comes close to TREASON.
This is what happens when Obama pushes too hard and demands too much. He did this last year, moved goal posts when a deal was imminent. He did it again this year, increasing his demands...and the GOP could not agree.
Perhaps since we are down to two choices, this will motivate people.
A. Ciff
B. A more reasonable proposal from Obama
The only damage done is to the GOP. Boehner knows this. That's why he strong armed the Tea Party and threw them out of prime positions before the negotiations. He knows the GOP doesn't have a leg to stand on. He tried his best. The Tea Party just gave Democrats everything they've ever wanted. Defense cuts and massive tax increases now kick in on January first, and then Democrats in the senate will then re-pass a tax cut for the middle class and look amazing. This is a non-stop democrat win. Thank God you voted against that small increase in taxes to billionaires, tea party... now you get major tax increases for millionaires and billionaires.
Nut. Jobs.
Boehner isn't interested in giving up His job as Speaker? He's trying to put a pretty face on His party, and that's like trying to safely accomplish a blow job from a camel. I'm really sorry for the man. Just being amongst a pack of tongue chewing, booger picking, ass whiffing tea partites is enough to drive a man to drink, and It is commonly known the Speaker stays tight most of the time. I now understand why.
T-Rex,
Really? Maybe you misread the article above. A REPUBLICAN (John Boehner) tried to pass a REPUBLICAN bill and REPUBLICANS voted it down. For the first time since Obama has been President, there is absolutely no possible way to use Obama as an excuse on this one. It's literally impossible, and somehow you just can't admit Republicans own this failure plus the failure of their own party, by refusing to compromise even with each other. C'mon T-Rex, your boys are blowing it
BRING IT ON!!!!
LET THE FISCAL CLIFF AND SEQUESTRATION HAPPEN!
This move by Boehner is genius.
We all knew that even if this ridiculous "Plan B" were to pass, Barrack Hussein stated he would veto it. So in essence Boehner took the hero-pen out of Barracks hand and put the responsibility of coming up with an acceptable plan pen in his hand.
The differences of any reasonable agreement are dramatic.
There is a huge gap between $400,000 and $1,000,000 on tax hikes.
There is a huge gap between $400 billion and a $trillion on entitlement cuts.
Obama would only give in a mere $50 billion on entitlement cuts.
Sequestration would result in a 9.4 percent reduction in non-exempt defense discretionary funding and.
An 8.2 percent reduction in non-exempt nondefense discretionary funding (domestic programs).
Medicare cuts of 2.0 percent.
7.6 percent cuts to other non-exempt nondefense mandatory programs.
10.0 percent cuts to non-exempt defense mandatory programs.
At the same time, Bush era tax cuts across the board would return to Clinton era levels.
The $4.6 trillion tax increase over the next decade, scheduled to start taking effect in January, would be about 2.3 percent of the U.S. gross domestic product. In those terms, it would be smaller than a 1942 tax increase during World War II, which was 5 percent of GDP according to the Treasury Department.
This will somewhat satisfy everyone. Yes taxes will go up but Barrack Hussein and the Libbies keep telling us that higher taxes will create more jobs and create another dot-com like era in our economy.
Let's do it. It's about time everyone in America--poor, middle class and rich--pay their fair share if they want more and more government.
We have lived, as a nation, far beyond our means and the message is, for the foreseeable future, that we will be forced to live beneath our means as this debt is paid. This will level the playing field.
Greed isn’t someone wanting to keep more of what they earn, its people demanding a greater share of money that someone else has earned.
"God only knows"...
Do I hear blasphemy here??? Taking the Lord's name in vain???
All of those "God-fearing" Christians need to take a good look into their own hearts, not their wallets and brokerage accounts.
This is will not be answer given by God; it is an answer formulated by men who can step up to plate.
The result of that formulated by man may or may not be pleasing to God -and only God knows that and your own heart.
Perhaps looking into one's one heart at Christmas (that means *you*, legislators of all parties in the House and Senate) - exclusive of Santa, crass commercialism, "Black Friday", the Dow, the latest quarterly earnings statements, lobbyists, etc. - will give the answer.
Joyeux Noel!
@chick binder When you said "man of color" I thought for a second you were referring to Boehner and his strange orange hue.
Must be nice to get a job in which taxpayers pay you handsomely, you get health benefits for you and your family for life, you're allowed to take bribes from the industries you create legislation for, and get vacation money from foreign govts to spend time in their countries...and you don't have to do a thing worthwhile on the job but bloviate about how people who work don't deserve health care and should fund all kinds of tax breaks for you and your buddies even if they are making $7.30 hourly and just need to sacrifice more.
There are some of us who not only let them get away with it, but many who even agree with them, especially those who don't have a pot to piss in.
Sleuth,
Of course this is about Obama.
Yes a republican bill was pulled from vote. But this Plan B only existed because of Obama moved the goal post by raising the stakes, refusing to provide details on cuts, and being unresponsive. Plan B never would have even have been drawn up if Obama had not changed his terms from early on. What he released as his plan, was in stark contrast to what he had talked about all along.
Obama is to blame. He took his election victory as a mandate. That he suddenly should push for even more...and it is not working. He is fooling no one other than simpletons who view everything as Dem vs Rep. Look objectively and you will see a man who thought he had leverage, and increased his demands...and now we are all dealing with the fall out.
Please try to stay objective.
Yes, Boehner, God knows. Just ask him what Jesus would do.
Why does the President continue to try to cut a deal with Boehner? He can't deliver. It's like negotiating with your paper boy the cost of ad space in the newspaper.
If the Democrats worked with what's left of moderate Republicans they could bypass the tea baggers and get it done.
It's not up to God. It is the Congress, with the leaders of the House and Senate convincing these bodies that a reasonable consensus be found. I'm not at all sure the leadership has the skills or the will to lead a two-man parade, let alone these bodies.
Absolute refusal to raise taxes on the people that control the vast majority of this country's wealth? That has been clearly expressed as the will of the majority of Americans. As if the tax rate on their personal income in any way approaches the published tax rates. As if their personal taxes has anything to do with the hiring capabilities of the corporations they head. How many employees at a corporate average wage could be hired with the salaries of the top 5 in any given corporation?
T-REX - maybe you should actually know something before you post. The only way President Obama moved the goal post was to RAISE the minimum amount for tax breaks - from $250,000 to $400,000. Then the GOP still wasn't happy - they NEVER will be because Grover Norquist tells them what they are allowed to think and do.
JimSpence - as usual - you post to see yourself post. Then you resort to childishly referring to our President by a name you know will frighten the ignorant. But, that is all you appeal to - the very ignorant! And, we expect no better from you - it's all you EVER have. Such a good Little Republican! Pathetic!
@workingpoor-237098#1.42: Agree with you in principal. Can't think of any "moderate" republicans left though. At least, not in the "House" that would admit to it. Regards
workingpoor, they cannot pass anything that Boehner refuses to bring to the floor for a vote.
@ Mac Forrester
There are a few moderate Republicans in the house but they have for the most part been kept quiet by the radicals.
For those that think Obama has mover the goal post they are either watching too much FOX News, are complete idiots, or are just plain liars. Obama has been saying since before the 2008 election that those making over $250,000 should pay their fair share of taxes. The only way he mover from that was agree to $400,000 if they would pass the deal. Boehner's bill was for the tax to be lower on those making under one million dollars. He couldn't even get support on that bill and blames Obama. Not only are they liars but they are idiot liars. They must actually believe that they live in the 1930s when there were no TV or internet for people to see that they lie.
I say go over the cliff. I can pay a few thousand more if it means that my grandchildren and my great grandchildren are forced to pay the bill that my generation has ran up with stupid tax cuts that did not create jobs, two wars on borrowed money, and a stupid Medicare drug plan that doesn't even give the government to negotiate the price they must pay for drugs. Because of these stupid policies the national debt doubled, jobs were lost, and the economy collapsed and these idiots in the house want more.
Mr. Boehner, may I respectfully submit that YOU are running the House, not God. Please aggregate your fecal material and stop looking at the sky for answers.
Republicans are totally incompetent, “God only knows” is the best Boehner can do. What more evidence do Americans need to realize that Republicans are unfit to govern their own party much less a super power?
I think it worthwhile to note that the GOP threw in the towel and headed home for the holidays on the last day of the Mayan calendar. Perhaps that is the global Apocalypse predicted. Next major catastrophy date... January 1, 2013... Fiscal Cliff Day... Enjoy.
Correction
I wrote "I say go over the cliff. I can pay a few thousand more if it means that my grandchildren and my great grandchildren are forced to pay the bill that my generation has ran up"
I should have wrote "I say go over the cliff. I can pay a few thousand more if it means that my grandchildren and my great grandchildren are NOT forced to pay the bill that my generation has ran up"
I just hope that some of you knew what I meant when I made the statement.
one side of the dem's mouth they love Clinton, the other side they hate his tax rates.
hummmmmmm......
hope you moved into bonds:o). time to preserve your retirement account????
raise the tax on the rich and not reduce spending=increase debt=US downgrade=stock market down. jsut wait until we wake up to inflation=higher interest rates=painful market correction!
Maybe we will get a "kick the can" bill pass and delay it for another 3-6 months.
......"Interested ????" He's Interested in solving our problems?
How about COMMITTED to solving our problems you pompous ASS! You and your other Congressional Lovers of the rich and corporate interests are focused on yourselves and the 'puppeteers' who run you morons! Hopefully, your tenure has been shortened by your single-minded, self serving BLATHER and your complete UNWILLINGNESS to SOLVE the problems we face. You're "OUT'A HERE!' Johnny BONER!!
The Tea Party Congressmen are absolutely ignorant and arrogant; a very dangerous combination! They will, indeed are, dismantling the Republican Party piece by tormented piece. WAKE UP GOP moderates, you are putting your complacency on public display and helping to destroy YOUR OWN party! Didn't you learn anything from the November election?
Tops on my list of tax changes that should be made is the carried interest loophole that allows hedge-fund managers to personally make billions each year--that's more than $1,000,000,000--to pay taxes at 15%. Ironically, it's probably Senator Schumer (D--NY) who makes sure nothing happens on this, and why it isn't even discussed.
We do need some adult behavior among our politicians--many are bought and paid for but others act like children--on this and other issues of the day. What we've seen so far is an adult versus pouting child relationship between the President and the Tea Party. For how much longer are we going to put up with letting people who can't make a logical case for their views hold the country hostage by refusing any kind of compromise?
Speaking of the Tea Party--it's an historical non sequitur. It hardly represents 18th Century America, if you check the history books. In fact it's heroes are 20th Century foreigners like Lugwig von Mises (Austria) and Ayn Rand (Russia). They want the Democrats to get specific about entitlement cuts yet it's not the Democrats who want do the cutting. If the Tea Party wants entitlement cuts, they need to step up and say exactly what they have in mind. They won't because most Americans would not agree, and the Tea Party doesn't want to take responsibility come election time. Demanding that the President name his own poison will not work.
The Tea Party is absolutely wrong about economics. The immediate economic crisis in America is not the national debt: it's lack of demand and housing. If low taxes really created jobs, we'd have full employment and a sound housing market right now. We've tried low taxes for a decade and what have we got for it? If we were talking about infrastructure projects, education, efficient health care, and exploiting our natural advantages internationally--rather than cutting grandma's social security and medicare, we'd see a better economy and begin to cut deficits again.
The fact is that money doesn't trickle down: it trickles up. If the people on the bottom were given all the money in the world, the people at the top would have it all by sundown! (Apologies to Will Rogers.) If there were good demand, our 'entrepreneurs' would be out expanding the economy, trickling money up, if you will--even if their taxes were doubled and they were loudly complaining about it.
This isn't about protecting millionaires its about history! This has always been about history and democratic policy. George H. W. Bush said read my lips, no new taxes then went on to agree to a tax increase. The reason he did so was a brokered deal with a democratic congress pushing for more revenue. Bush allowed tax rates to rise in exchange for spending cuts promised by congress that never materialized. That is why Republicans are taking such a hard line now! If democrats are serious about resolving this mess then they should put some meaningful program cuts together and attach them to the tax increases they wish to see happen. That at least would give a playing field for negotiation and compromise. However that is not the way they are approaching the negotiations. They are not giving any type of hard numbers, they are again taking the stance that we'll have to pass it to see whats actually in it! While the Republicans may seem to be stubborn, the reason they are acting this way is that they cannot trust their democratic colleagues and they won't be fooled by empty promises again!
My former party, the one that does nothing and did nothing again yesterday, makes me want to throw up! A disgrace and incompetent!
We should be able to fire these clowns. They don't work. They put on nice suits and sit in nice offices, but they don't do anything. Why do we pay them when they don't do anything? The Selfish Right's part in this negotiation is to increase taxes and the Left's part is to decrease spending. The Right (or wrong) are not allowed to do their part because of their stupid Tax Pledge. So why are they there?
Der Fuhrer Grover Nerdquist is holding the country hostage. I just can't believe that nothing is being done about that. He's been exposed but they (media, Dems, Repubs) just let it go on and on and on.......
Boehner could be a great figure in history if he would just put his hands up and say "Stop. Nordquist is holding us hostage. We are disfunctional because......." and lay it all out there. Hurry up and get here 2014. We need to remove the thatch that is choking our growth, which is the Republican Party.
T Rex - you get it and read ALL the news,.
archangel - you too and worse yet for liberals you learn from history.
Actually, Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of people besides God who knows how this is going to turn out and how it's going to get done. You are going to have to do your job and show some leadership. Your party has been hijacked by some extremists who refuse to reason or compromise on any issue - as long as you allow them to control the situation, you and your party will pay the consequence and the country will suffer. Take a stand - be a leader and listen to the majority of the American people - not just the bullies in control of your party. For once, show some initiative and get something accomplished. It would be better to go out in a blaze of glory for the benefit of the country than to cower in the corner and get nothing accomplished and still get the boot anyway. That's really the options.
Here's an idea MSNBC: Start writing stories about how incompetant the President is on this! Where in the world is HIS leadership?? This is pathetic, and seriously if there was one person in Washington that I would love to punt all the way back to Nevada its Harry Reid, what a slime ball.
First place they can extend everything as it is now with no problems and work this out.... Don't know why they all haven't done it. Second: maybe it is time to let everyone pay. Tired of hearing that small business should. Reid and all of them are multi millionairs. Why are they insisting on increased taxes AND NOT cut deductions. Everyone should know the answers to that one.....
It's true... we have the most inept government on the planet.. Not a shred of leadership in White House, Senate or the House. This makes the Bush era look competent.
HEY LIBERALS!!!! You do know that OBAMA signed the fiscal cliff into law. And now, you're going to get what you voted for. HA HA HA HA HA!!!
You can blame Beohner all you want, but the fiscal cliff was manufactured and signed into law by Obama.
FORWARD!!! Right off the Obama cliff.
OMFG!!!! I'm tired of this BS. God only knows if you'll actually even allow it to get done. That goes for every politician in Washington at this point. The debt ceiling (self made) crisis was something that should have originally been a non-issue. However, it was turned into a football field for political agenda. At this point, just take the excess out and simply vote to raise the debt ceiling. Quit the posturing, the finger pointing, the excuses, the distractions, the blame game, the stalling, the straw man propaganda, the creating of bogus plans you know won't pass in the first place, and the political agenda. Just raise the god damn debt ceiling!!!!! You can argue about taxes and all that other political BS later. So quit messing around, get off your laze arses, and do the ** ** ** ** ** ** ** jobs the ** ** people ** voted you to do in the first ** place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **!!!!!!!!!!!
President Obama: Stop being an obstructionist!
You have been offered a deal that gives you your (symbolic) tax increases on the wealthy and doesn't cut enough spending to get us out of danger of collapse, it's just what you wanted.
The increases in taxes will do absolutely nothing to stop the slippery slope we're on without MAJOR spending cuts that you are unwilling to do.
If you're unwilling to cut spending, then you're not serious about solving anything, but are instead only focusing on more class warfare. We don't need that! Cooperate now and fix this mess!!
I once was told of a company that paid minimum wage for technical drafting & then required the employee to provide all of the supplies to do the drawings.
That guy reminds me of Obama and the democrats.
I think I did a job for an Architect for what may have been the same aforementioned company owner. Had to negotiate the terms with the owner to provide backgrounds of his crazy house for the Architect to solve his roofing issues.
We went in asking a bit more than what we estimated the work would be. The guy drove a hard bargain, and of course the work took longer than we estimated.
I ran into the Architect some months later. He asked if we got paid or not. He had a different experience. He worked on the problem some and sent him some sketches of what could be done. Billed him at half the hours he used AND at a lower rate than what he was currently charging. He got paid for what he billed, BUT he also got a letter telling the Architect that he should have had more work done for what he paid him for.
That is what dealing with Obama is like.
The Architect put the work aside, and in the meantime the guy moved away. That is what the republicans are and should be doing. Obama really doesn't want a deal.
Hi-ho, hi-ho
it's over the cliff we go
then the midterms come
and the GOP's done
hi-ho ... hi-ho, hi-ho, hi-ho!
Screw all this posturing by the Republicans. To hell with Grover, Rove, the Koch brothers and the rest of the entitled few who desire only to continue turning us into economic slaves for their use and to bolster their pocketbooks.
This is America, where the majority are more important than the few who believe they can buy our elected representatives. The GOP needs to get their act together NOW!
He is the deal.
The Dems are holding middle class tax rates hostage. They are willing to let the rates on the middle class go up for a few billion dollars of punishing somebody else.
The dems and president want us to go over the cliff, why you ask? Because they know with only the rich paying higher taxes we can't afford to pay for all the hand out they have been giving for votes.
Because when you spend a trillion plus more than you take in, it has to be a revenue problem correct?
Appel - "This is America, where the majority are more important than the few who believe they can buy our elected representatives"
Of course you meant to say - This is American, where the majority can force others to pay for things their politicians promised them.
Here is the deal if we want our Government to offer everything it currently offers, lets all decide it is time for ALL of us to pay. That number should be right around 25% of our income. If you pay less than that (I do) then we ALL AREN'T PAYING OUR FAIR SHARE.
Amazing that our political process has been taken hostage by the lowest common denominator. Or should I have said our lowest common IQ. How in the world did we vote these teanuts into office? Hope all you reichwing retards are happy now.
Norquist: "But Mr. R, you promised!"
The puppet master has doomed us all. Cliff ahoy!
Personally I'm glad that Boehner is being such a boner about the "cliff". It's the perfect stage setting to finally get rid of the GOP and it's tea-bagging follies. American's memories tend to be short until you hit us in the pocketbooks and then the majority will vote your ass out. So let it be, take us over the fiscal cliff, raise taxes on folks other than the very rich. And we'll make you GOPextinct come 2014!
SeekingSanity
Hmmm, and how is that Spanky?
Is Barrack ashamed of his given name? If so, why?
More importantly, are you ashamed of his given name? If so, why?
Does it frighten you? With your reference to the ignorant, I’m sure it does.
Of course I’m sure it’s fine when for 8 years you limp-wristed Libbies called President Bush every name in the book, right? You Libbies are such hypocrites and so afraid to try and exist independently from the grip of our criminal government, it’s embarrassing.
Who’s pathetic now Spanky?
Merry - "First place they can extend everything as it is now with no problems and work this out.... Don't know why they all haven't done it. Second: maybe it is time to let everyone pay. Tired of hearing that small business should. Reid and all of them are multi millionairs. Why are they insisting on increased taxes AND NOT cut deductions. Everyone should know the answers to that one....."
Wait, you do know that the fiscal cliff involves more than income taxes correct? The SS tax Holiday (100+ billion), Obama care taxes(50 - 75 billion), the inheritance tax, the sequesters (110 billion), and the medicare doctor fix. And we hit the debt ceiling ceiling soon.
yes, after the Speaker (and Cantor) gets down on their knees and kisses some feet.........
What is the freakin difference, Plymouth? The difference isn't what you blindly believe. It isn't just that Republicans won't raise taxes....because they will if they limit deductions more than in the past.
The difference is that deductions are going to be limited anyway in 2013 and that's why Republicans want to try and squirm though with helping America as little as they can.
The rich are pathetic leeches on our country. They need to be sent to the wood-shed once and for all.
Boehner - who otherwise seems like a good guy - is going to be a very forgettable speaker of the house who had absolutely no control whatsoever on his own caucus. Look at Pelosi - she at least had her own caucus with her.
Mr. Boehner, the way forward is for you to allow a vote of the full House on the President's proposal. There are enough sane members of your caucus to make it pass with full Democratic support, and it would be seen as a bi-partisan bill.
Instead of demonstrating true leadership by doing that, you stick to your strictly partisan approach to never bring a bill to the floor that doesn't already have a majority with strictly Republican yes votes.
You have one week left and nothing to lose since your caucus is unlikely to choose you as Speaker again on January 3. Bring the President's proposal to the floor next week and release your caucus to vote their conscience. It will pass and our nation can move on. Either way, you will not be Speaker in January, but at least you will have done something good for this country.
Just look at everyone swooning over a pile of minutia. As is any of this was a solution, and not just more Washington slight of hand and smoke and mirrors. The only thing that even comes close to a solution is going off the cliff and letting all tax cuts expire along with the major spending cuts. Which is exactly what needs to happen and has been the plan all along. Obama is only interested in being able to blame Republicans, and Republicans are only interested in standing firm against any and all tax increases. Who cares if this causes some taxpayer pain, or leads to another recession, it is not as if running trillion plus annual deficits is going to lead this country to prosperity. Going off the fiscal cliff still won't prevent Obama from leaving office having added more to our national debt then all previous presidents combined. 20 trillion plus in national debt will always be the Obama legacy.
This is why the Republicans favor eliminating deductions …
If you eliminate every single possible deduction from the wealthy the revenue generated would be $100 Billion less every year than increasing the taxes on incomes above$200K/$250K by 3.6%. Over the 10 years that is loss of $1 Trillion in revenue. Still allowing the "better-off" to keep more of their income.
"Perhaps if the Republicans would chose to respect and comply with the will of the people, the deal could be done today...."
What will is that......that most polled who wouldn't be negatively effected--at least directly--put their support behind BO to raise taxes on others. You folks are so simple; the gravy providers have you right where they want you. This is being played out according to a plan and, so far, BO has provided NO leadership whatsoever; when has he ever when it came to economic/domestic policy. He has never even tried to work for a compromise on anything. I think it's funny and the negative consequences that would result from no deal getting done would be worth it to see all the simpleton gravy bowl lickers running for cover.
Sorry Tom, i didn't realize you were quoting Merry.
that should read, What is the freakin difference Merry?
And, it should read, the Democrats will let Boehner (and Cantor) work with them....right after they both get down on their knees and KISS THEIR FEET, for trying to embarrass the President and Democrats.
This President is dealing with children that have 1/2 the IQ. Republicans are looking worse every day. The President told them they would look a whole lot better if Republicans came to ANY deal. The Teaparty is bringing the entire Republican Party down. Someone better put the TP in place or they are going to cause America to lose everything we have. If the TP had forced Obama into the "Grand Bargain" 2 years ago, they would be running the country right now. Democrats would support them. Now, the TP looks like the Hitler Party.
Houston; "WE HAVE A PROBLEM"
how do you negotiate with a man who can make an agreement with you? time to stop wasting time trying to get the tea party to agree. the senate needs to take the presidents original proposal on revenue, the cuts he and boner agreed to, the 400 billion from medicade and put them in a package and send them to the senate wednesday. if the gop fillibusters the bill then just go over the cliff and bring back the tax cuts for the 98% the next day and force the gop to vote against the tax cuts or pass them. their choice
Happy Over the Cliff Day to all and Boehner hell is awaiting for all you Teabaggers and Racist!
The REAL reason Republicans favor eliminating deductions is:
Deductions have already been limited for upper-income individuals since 2001- called the Pease Provision (personal exemptions too- called PEP), but the 2 provisions expired for 2011 returns. The rich were used to seeing their deductions limited, and, the provision is set to start up again in 2013. So, now that the President wanted to raise revenue (by raising rates-because he knew deductions were going to become limited again), what better for Republicans than to cry for limiting deductions....something that was going to happen anyway. The Republicans would avoid a rate increase, effectively doubling their contribution to America.
From the Tax Policy Center:
The limitation on itemized deductions—known as Pease after the congressman who introduced it—cuts itemized deductions by 3 percent of adjusted gross income above specified thresholds but not by more than 80 percent. The income threshold—projected to be $174,450 in 2013 ($87,225 for married couples filing separately)—is indexed for inflation.
In its full form, the personal exemption phaseout (PEP) reduces the value of each personal exemption from its full value by 2 percent for each $2,500 or part thereof above specified income thresholds that depend on filing status. Personal exemptions are thus fully phased out over a $122,500 range.
The president proposes to allow both PEP and Pease to resume for high-income taxpayers in 2013 but would markedly change the income levels above which the provisions apply. The threshold for the phaseouts would begin at 2009 levels of $250,000 for couples.* $200,000 for single taxpayers, and $225,000 for heads of household, with both values indexed for inflation.
What bittersweet irony. The middle class tax cuts signed into law by George W. Bush are going to expire. It will be interesting to hear the reaction from those middle class taxpayers who voted for Obama and Reid when they open their first pay check of the new year. Think any will be upset? Think more than a few will wonder how a democrat president and democrat senate couldn't manage to preserve the BUSH tax cuts for the middle class? I know I know, it was the mean republicans that control one third of the government who are responsible while the two thirds of the government controlled by the democrats were completely helpless to save us. Don't be angry, after all they tried so hard! Well maybe they're both just plain feckless or maybe Obama and Reid wanted us to go over the cliff all along. It seems the real money lost to the Bush tax cuts went overwhelmingly to the middle class. Who knew?
Obama won and now its time to pay back his supporters. Time to hire more government bureaucrats to make sure we wipe our asses properly. Time to dole out more guaranteed loans to his campaign bundlers since their is a fresh brood of piglets lining up for the Washington sow to feed. Ahh, so much payback and so little money. Not to worry Obama supporters, I'm sure once the president makes good on his really important obligations he will reward you. After all he now has another four years to prove it. Just be patient. He really does care about you. He even said so!
Once we head over the cliff there will be no turning back. This what they want in Washington. Massive tax increases and painful spending cuts. All without either party directly to blame. Sure Obama is going to blame Republicans, but Republicans will have an equal ability to blame Obama. So we have detaunt. But the one person truly running the risk is Obama, should another recession ensue, the blame will end up on his shoulders. Obama has spent his entire presidency blaming everything on Bush. But Bush didn't sign this bill into law, Obama did. Which makes it his and his alone. The people will expect Obama to solve any of the problems that ensue, and that could prove difficult for someone that has been entirely partisan.
Tim,
The real irony is that the Rich are going to get a rate increase, limited deductions AND the Republicans are going to look like greedy fools for years to come. If we do go over the cliff, the President is going to propose (and get) a middle-class tax cut on January 2nd, 2013.
You are a fool too.
Dear Elephants and Donkeys-
You all have blame in the situation our country is in. Every one of you that has beat and continues to beat the drum of your respective parties' "principals".
Elephants- You can't spend Trillions on war and defense while keeping tax cuts for everyone. It's the most basic of economic principals. YOU CANNOT SPEND MORE THAN YOU MAKE. The tax rates need to go up. Corporate welfare needs to end. Corporations are making higher profits, and the Stock Exchange is higher still that its ever been, considering we are in a "recession". WAKE UP.
Donkeys- You cant give away the farm. I understand that certain people need help. I'm not blind or adverse to that. I regularly give to charity and don't use it as a write-off. I do it because it's the right thing to do, especially this time of year. My issue is that you have trained poor and less fortunate that it's in their best interest to milk the system, instead of putting in hard work to better their situation. Put a 2 year cap of benefits in a 15 year span on ALL entitlement with the exception of SS for citizens over 65. Also, the entitlement should be taxed. If its their main source of income, that would make it their "job". No reason that they shouldn't have to pay taxes for "working" right? Its only whats fair.
All of you bashing each other because you belong to a different political party need to wake the f%^& up and think for yourselves. Use some common sense. Don't over complicate things. Thats how we got to this point in the first place.
Where we go from here is up to you
Rick,
Then you would think going over the cliff would be urgent enough for Bonehead to make some proposals that don't always include benefiting the rich and that would be important enough to vote on and not walk out the door again and go home for the Holidays! Idiot republicans! Boehner is the highest elected republican leader and he can't keep his misfits in line and they show that the republican party is split down the middle unfit to govern. At least there will be some 11 less teabuggers returning after the next cession begins!
Prepare yourself, spitfire, because I am about to blow your mind.
The United States has spent more than it's made 232 out of 234 years and yet life has been good. The Confederation spent more than it made the 10 years before that (after assuming war debts from the Colonies) and yet life was good. Every country on Earth spends more than it makes. There is more debt in the world than there is capital.
Remember how I promised to blow your mind earlier? Hold on to something.
Economics is not a branch of mathematics. It's a branch of Sociology. It has to do with "feelings" and "trust" and "confidence". Why does the market drop when investors get skittish about their tea leaves? Is that how rational science works?
We'll never pay the debt off because it's impossible. 16 trillion dollars doesn't exist. All we can do is "appear" fiscally responsible.
How are you feeling?
I'm feeling fine. You didn't blow my mind. I'm honestly not surprised. Everyone keeps taking about "change" and how things need to be different.
Can't change much more than to do something that for all intents and purposes has never been done. Thats part of my biggest issue with both parties.
How's your mind and perspective? Mine is unchanged from where I sit.
Well Crying Speaker Tan Man-- you've made a bunch of mistakes. First of all -- you willingly welcomed the tea bag clowns into your tent during the 2010 election. So now you have to live with them. Secondly -- you let President Obama out fox you on the extension of the Bush tax cuts two years ago and on the debt limit debate 16 months ago. You and your Republican buddies were so certain he would not win reelection that you could just about anything. But -- President Obama DID WIN REELECTION and now he's got you in a box. No doubt you and President Obama could have worked out a deal. But those tea bag clowns you welcomed into your ranks are coming back to stab you in the back. When this all comes crashing down, you and your Republicans are going to get the blame. As the President said two years ago -- he was playing chess --- not checkers. Checkmate Speaker Boehner.
...and God only knows where Boehner and his cronies will be after the next election. Safe bet they WON'T be in Washington.
And, since God is the imaginary friend of the less apt, we must conclude that we are in fairly deep crap, since we just handed it over to the Christies.
Love it, GOP shoots down tax hike for millionares and up and Harry Reid's only commnet is "Vote on the taxes for more towards middle class"?
The Democrats are so bent on leaving the 1% a way to unlimited exceptions, to decrease their tax burden.. WHY? Why would the Party of the common people be more willing to do what the billionaires say they should do, and less of what is right to make sure they pay more total?
I am all for everyone paying their fair share. But the Democratic leaders are liars. They are doing more to protect the interests of the 1%'ers than the GOP.
Seriously, what does it matter if they are told to pay 25% or 35%, when they can just stash more away in a tax shelter? That is how it works, folks. 90% of Americans do not even use half the exceptions available, let alone, there is very few "limits".
The guy with the $200,000 homes get's the same rate of exception as the guy with the $2,000,000 home. And they could have multiple homes, all eligible.
Many of those guys also have "not for profit groups", they stash their cash in the charitable group (exempt from taxes), then utilize the charitable organization for personal means. Kind of like a saving account, but better, because the not for profit organization is not subject to the same filings.
They simple find way to keep the money in transition.
GOP is pushing for limits and closing loopholes that are not being used for the middle class. But the Democrats want to raise the taxes.
What does that mean, that means those that are on the low end of that tax bracket are going to get stuck with the burden. This is where more of the employers sit. Top half are typically investment bankers....
But wait.. bankers? Sounds familiar? Wait.. hang on, the top half are skilled at money handling? Need any further understanding of who is calling the shots for the Democrats?
Wait.. there is more... why is it the Dept of Justice has sought less convictions in the last 4 years than 2008, alone? Why is it, the liberals say that banks caused the Recession, yet not one single conviction has been obtained for the irresponsible activity?
Who is for the 1%'ers again? More I look into activity, the more sense it makes. Democrats have been in the back pocket of the banks for quite awhile, and using the money to lie and cheat the middle class into supporting the banks...
Follow hte money, always follow the money!
Obama, however, does indeed want taxes to go up for everyone just as long as he isn't the one that's blamed for it. This has been his strategy from the beginning and clearly explains his strange obsession with raising the tax rate for that top 2%, something that wouldn't garner enough revenue to run the government for much more than a week. He's been doing everything possible to insure this country goes over that cliff.
Merrymarie:
Here's some advice to save you some (a lot) money on your taxes since you're a 'small business owner' who stands to have their taxes 'raised'.
Form a LLC. Pay your expenses through the LLC. Take a salary from the LLC. Pay PERSONAL income tax on only what you pay yourself. Your LLC will then pay its corporate taxes on PROFITS for the year after your business expenses are paid.
Stop being an idiot who runs all your companies revenue through your own personal accounts, making it be counted as personal income even when 80% of it goes back out as expenses.
let me get the bugle out and play taps for the gop. it's all over but the crying!!!! tea bags your going down with the ship because you are the one who hit the iceburg and didn't bring the lifeboats with you!!
spitfire18213
I didn't really expect to blow your mind. I was just trying to get read, in this sea of comments.
I suspect I'd be singing a different song if I lived through the Depression, or even the hyper inflation of the 70s. But over and over again you hear the drumbeat of doom, and yet we still have the largest economy in the world, and the highest per capita income. We're being told to fear this financial cliff, and the stock market gets spooked by its own shadow these days. And yet... life is fine really.
My point was just that we can spend more than we make, as a country, and life can go on the way it has, and that is fine. I don't know. I'm too old to get worried about every apocalypse that pops up.
So, Boehner can't control the wackos. Why do you think we call them "wackos"?
It doesn't seem as though the Republicans have any leadership up there.
We'll just call them "The Wild Bunch" until they find someone who actually does "lead" in the Republican House.
Wait, is that what Cantor is, the Republican "Whip"? Because if he is, he is a total and complete failure.
Point well taken sir. I just get riled up by all these extremists on BOTH sides of the aisle that can't seem to process ANY independent thought, all they do is re-spew the same propaganda that their respective party holds. I hear about "change" and "hope" but all we seem to do as a nation is try the same things over and over and over. There is a better way, a more common sense based approach.
I feel the most serious issue, and I know it is a built in human trait and its difficult to change, but everyone is selfish in self-serving their own needs instead of just being simple and doing the right thing, even if it's painful, for the simple fact that ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Politics should be a SERVICE- NOT A CAREER.
Sorry- Had to get some more out. #endrant
I used to love this country because things were fair with everyone whether rich or poor. But, no more. It seems to be a nasty thing to say to the rich to help pay for their fair share of taxes as being citizens of this country. But, as soon as you mention it to them they want the middle class (what is left of it) & the poor to pay more & more taxes of which they pay most of the taxes. The rich can pay a little into it. People that make $250,000 & above, OMG, that is just so much money. We are becoming a divided country. The rich are going to get richer while the poor will get poorer. There is no unity in this country. It is a shame!
TO: Wet Willy who wrote:
Well, here's what I've been trying to find out, if Republicans believe that collecting billions of more dollars in revenue from cancelling oil subsidies and taxing the Top 2% wealthiest Americans another 4 cents on the dollar "wouldn't garner enough revenue to run the government for much more than a week", then how long do you think the government can run on denying poor children Food Stamps, stealing the elderly's retirement checks, and forcing soup lines to form in America?
Does a Food Stamp stretch longer than a billion dollars? Is that what Republicans are trying to say?
I know China will NOT accept either Food Stamps OR spending cuts instead of cash to pay for all that money Republicans borrowed to pay for their Lie Called the War in Iraq.
Here is the deal:
There isn't one.
Still...
WHAT THE F_**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It seems most of you have forgotten what got us to this point. It is called over spending. Both sides have doen this for decades because you all allow it. You can yep and blame the bad Republicans or you can face reality and decide that both sides need to come together to get our fiscal house in order. Stupidty from blaming one party or the other needs to end. The parties take their ques from people like you whether you are democrats or republicans. Why not try putting pressure on both parties to do the right thing and negotiate in good faith. Neither side and certainly not Harry Reid has done that to date. Unless you want to take that plunge I suggest you all change the tune and make both parties dance the same dance. Otherwise you all deserve what you are about to get and you have no right to cry and yep about it while being part of the problem.
The GOP should carry the crossbow skull, not trying to hurt anyone I'm just so so tiered of rich people, ecpesially thinking they want to make a difference.
McConnell said its the presidents job to come up with a plan that is workable.....really?! How does a senator not know how things are supposed to work? Again republicans thinking its the presidents job to hold their dicks.
They have left the republican party in one big mess because ultimately they will have to pass the tax breaks for <250k, all the president has to do is sit by and wait for January first.
@Lusitania... I am not for redistribution either. people use to work hard and start new companies. There is no incentive to do that if the govenrment just just going to redistribute to people that have not earned it. I do think those making a million or more could pay more. However it is time for the spending to get under control. That is something the demopcrats cannot bring themselves to accept. Both sides have acted with little regard for any of us. If the two sides were forced by all to act in good faith they would have no choice. But when you read the comments on this and other boards you soon see just how truely divided this country is and the reason Washington refuses to do what is right. People need to put party aside and put pressure on all parties to do the right thing and negotiate in good faith.
Kevin don't worry about it, if we go over the cliff the spending cuts will happen automatically. The cuts must be across the board and not just ones that will hurt the most vulnerable in our society as the GOP keeps suggesting and sorry where in history has republicans been better with spending than democrats? Definitely not since before Reagan, they love to talk about it but they spend as much as democrats, they just cut revenue and then spend freely.
By the way, Obamas biggest mistake is continuing the programs that Bush enacted that spend us into such a huge deficit. He really hasn't introduced that much in the way of new spending, that is a GOP myth they used to try to win the last election.
Subsidies such as the ones to the oil companies HAVE to end, we have to end the biggest corporations not paying any taxes and very definitely not for profits in this country are out of control and need review. Churches need to be reviewed to make sure that they are meeting the spirit of why they are tax exempt. You have churches like Scientology and Westboro who do virtually no charitable work and still are tax exempt, and Scientology charges fees for its classes.
It would be very helpful if we used the tax breaks as a reward for employing Americans instead of giving them to corporations that send their jobs to other countries.
Amazing the comments I see on both sides of the aisle here in these blogs, with very few that are actually logical and entail truisms from both perspectives. Seems posters are equally guilty of partisanship here as the Politicians you accuse of being same.
Just saying...........
In my view; Obama is being small minded chasing meaningless revenue from taxes of the rich, some posters here are correct in saying the revenue will not pay 8 days on the deficit.
Yet, taxing the rich will not lead to a recession or long term economic harm either.
And, Democrats have to quit spending, we have tripled our debt in too short a time line, which couold lead to the perspective of reckless spending, and thought the U.S. basically cannot go insolvent in that we own our own currency, as Dr. Wray says: “Government needs to be concerned about pressures on inflation and the exchange rate should its spending become excessive. And it should avoid “crowding out” private initiative by moving too many resources to our public sector.
So Republicans need to stop it already with the end of the World scenarios, and economic insolvency.
We do need a budget, we do need to cut spending, entitlements/Welfare do need to be cut back some, otherwise we create a dependency state, and we need a productive state.
Just my take...........
Boehner’s fiscal path forward: ‘God only knows’
Yes, Boehner is behind all our problems, so let’s blame him!
How in this world have we, The United States of America, got to this point? Don’t blame the politicians, blame yourselves. These days everyone wants everything now, preferably without getting up from their backsides and dirtying their hands. The government is our keeper and provider. We elect politicians based on simple criteria, ie we elect those who will promise and give us the most. Where the money will come from is not important, but most popular appears to be the motion that super-taxing the rich will solve all our problems. The president is getting great mileage every time he says it. Simple calculations show that no matter how much we’ll tax them our problems will remain the same, in fact they will be worse.
We no longer use our brains to work out what’s right and what’s not. We let the politicians do it for us. That’s how we got to this point. We have been dumbed down, and that’s exactly where they want us to be. Democrats, more than any other party, have perfected the art of spin and deceit and we have fallen for it. The result of the last election is a perfect example.
Oink , Oink , Plan B was to increase taxes to the 1% what the ........... are you talking.
blhawks, sorry you are trying to sound like you have some clue but you are just repeating the same tired rhetoric that fox news spews.
Republicans need to learn which battles to fight instead of just saying no to everything. We spend 4 times the amount of money of any other nation in defense, we need to start scaling back, the only ones we are helping right now on that front are defense contractors. Until I see a republican admit that point, I find all of your points invalid. You are advocating out of control spending on defense, the democrats are advocating out of control spending on the American people, they need to scale back on BOTH.
OK Jan, not just my opinion, I actually try to read and study a bit, here are some confirming sources;
“The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that. So there is zero probability of default.” Alan Greenspan
“In the case of United States, default is absolutely impossible. All U.S. government debt is denominated in U.S. dollar assets.” Peter Zeihan, Vice President of Analysis for STRATFOR
“In the case of governments boasting monetary sovereignty and debt denominated in its own currency, like the United States (but also Japan and the UK), it is technically impossible to fall into debt default.” Erwan Mahe, European asset allocation and options strategies adviser
“There is never a risk of default for a sovereign nation that issues its own free-floating currency and where its debts are denominated in that currency.” Mike Norman, Chief Economist for John Thomas Financial
“There is no inherent limit on federal expenses and therefore on federal spending…When the U.S. government decides to spend fiat money, it adds to its banking reserve system and when it taxes or borrows (issues Treasury securities) it drains reserves from its banking system. These reserve operations are done solely to maintain the target Federal Funds rate.” Monty Agarwal , managing partner and chief investment officer of MA Managed Futures Fund
“As the sole manufacturer of dollars, whose debt is denominated in dollars, the U.S. government can never become insolvent, i.e., unable to pay its bills. In this sense, the government is not dependent on credit markets to remain operational.” Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
“A sovereign government can always make payments as they come due by crediting bank accounts — something recognized by Chairman Ben Bernanke when he said the Fed spends by marking up the size of the reserve accounts of banks.”
This guy is just two heartbeats from the presidency and MUST deliver something from the house at some point and his only answer is "God only knows?!!??!?" WTF?
There sure is a lot of coverage of what the republicans aren't doing. What is Obama and the democrats plan? why isn't the media covering that? Tax and spend, spend, spend!
Let‘s point our finger at “Those bad/nasty people on the Left”
Let’s shake our fist at “Those blankety- blanks on the Right”
Let’s call each other degrading ugly names and label each other “Un- American.” And the poor Libertarians don’t have a snowballs chance.
Folks, we’re each other’s neighbors. I don’t care if it’s next door, county, or state, we’re neighbors. We’re United States citizens that I’m sure love this great and wonderful country as well as the next one, and would probably give their life along side me in defense of it. Calling each other hurtful words while sitting behind a computer isn’t going to get anything done. EVER! Do we all agree with each other? No, the quickest way to get ten opinions is to ask a simple question to a group of eight people.
Do we in fact have ANY common ground?? You bet we do. We have 50 states and a good number of territories filled with every imaginable combination of different people that you might possibly find anywhere on this planet. These folks including me appear by and large to be interested in the same things, a dream. An American dream, different to some, but a dream never the less. Is it always practical? No, but then that’s the beauty of our system. We are still allowed to dream
Do you remember the movie “To Sir, With Love” where Sydney Portier forced the class to treat each other with dignity and respect? Out of that, they learned dignity and respect for themselves. I believe Will Rogers once said “I never met a man I didn’t like.” I would like to extend that, if I may to the ladies in our midst, without whom, we’d be in BIG trouble.
We don’t need to call each other names, we need to get something done, for our country. You know, “One nation, under God, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.” We’re US citizens, people, we’re better than petty squabbling. The cures, the fixes, are many and varied. Some are out of the box and some haven’t been thought of yet. That is exactly what makes us great. When there’s a problem, we don’t gnash our teeth and wring our hands, and lament the problem. We address it, we examine it closely, we figure out what makes it tick and then we come up with a solution. As a nation, united. That sounds pretty American to me.
Is it our President’s fault? How about Congress’? How about, we sent ALL of them there. Now whose fault is it? The problem lies with the hard line, intractable positions on both sides, and the un-willingness to compromise, to cut a deal, to get it done and move on to the next item on the agenda, for the good of our country. Personally, I try to live by the thought that the majority rules, but the minority has a right to be heard. I know one thing to be the truth in politics. You cannot lead from the ideological Left or Right. You MUST lead from the center. If you go either way 40% of the people tune you out. If you go far enough either way, you lose about 2/3 of them. Rightly so, as the problems of this nation concern us all.
I would urge that all of us remember that we are “part” of a great experiment that our fore-fathers as well as all of us today envisioned and still believe in, despite our differences.
May God Bless The United States of America.
one question, how the hell did someone get a post in before piglet?
I'm so glad we have God on our payroll! What do we need the rest of you for?
Pretty sure you should re-read the post. I'm pretty sure you did not comprehend that blkhawks is not spewing the same old Fox News lines. BOTH PARTIES ARE TO BLAME.
What a bunch of lunatics. Just one thing. Six percent of $16,000,000,000,000 is how much? $96,000,000,000 is the answer. WHEN the interest rate on the National Debt goes to 6%, that is how much the cost of borrowing will be EACH and EVERY year without including the cost to repay the principle. Think it cannot happen. Remember the peanut president, Carter. Remember what the interest rate on the debt was then. It wa over SIXTEEN (16%). Thirtyyear mortgage rate was 16%. I held $40,000 in treasury Bonds at 15 5/8%. I sold a house and held the mortgage for 12%. I would be delighted to do so again. However, I cannot afford to pay it. Neither can our country. We are broke. Of EVERY dollar 0bumble is spending 46 (fortysix) cents is borrowed, mostly from countries that would like to overrun us as their country is overpopulated to the max. Wake up idiots. Smell the coffee. Quit spending like there is no tomorrow or there will be no tomorrow.
It's all about the taxes and governemnt spending.Everyone might as well cave in and give Obama what he wants.Sooner or later he will get it anyway.Four years from now when the U.S so totally bankrupt and our taxes have gone through the roof we will see who will be crying then.Of course it won't be the Democrats fault at all.They will blame the Republicans for any ills that befall us over the next four years.Probably won't even be able to afford the next election so they will have to keep Obama by financial default.
I don't understand why people don't "see" the obvious...
President Obama has no motivation to avoid the fiscal cliff. If he does nothing, taxes go up on everyone across the board and the Treasury gets a huge jump in revenue. Democrats love nothing more than more money to spend. And he gets to "blame" the GOP for raising taxes on the poor and the middle class, even though "the cliff" was his idea and he signed it into law in the first place.
Democrat sheeple will gobble up the pablum as usual and think the GOP is responsible for "raising taxes" when, in fact, what is happening is the tax holiday is expiring. If you go to the store to buy a shirt and the shirt costs $40 but then goes on sale for $20, do you say that the store is "raising the price" of the shirt when it goes off sale and back to its regular price....? No one I know would think that the store is "raising its price" on the shirt...they would just understand that the sale price has expired. That's exactly what's happening with the tax rates.
Grandpa Luv-
Best post I have ever read on this board. I applaud you sir and wish your family a very Merry Christmas.
Here is a crazy idea. Why don't we start cracking down on countries like China with their lopsided trade practices. Tariff the crap out of them, that would be an untapped revenue stream. Prices on goods from these third world would rise to the point where it would make manufacturing in the US profitable once again. Manufacturing in the US means a lower unemployment rate, that will generate more tax dollars for uncle sam. Hey maybe we could make some spending cuts as well. They won't admit, but I don't even think the liberals believe obama will make cuts once he has secured his tax hike.
HAHAHAHAHAH!! You ARE what you are complaining about (chuckle), What a Moron
Well it's about damn time that you and I can agree on something...
Never mind.
Not really. Boehner may have put Obama on the spot for coming up with a plan, but Obama already has one. Tax rates go up on those making over $400,000 (essentially the top bracket); the elimination and/or capping of deductions and exemptions make up the rest of the revenue. Spending cuts that are roughly equal to the amount of revenue raised (double if you count the scheduled trillion in cuts), including slowing down the growth of SS benefits and possible cuts to Medicare. But, Obama will probably take away some of the goodies that he offered Boehner, mainly as punishment for trying to take advantage of him again.
Indeed they are; unfortunately, you don't support a reasonable agreement.
Policy-wise yes, but considering the fact that we've been arguing on whether or not to raise taxes over the past few years, the two are pretty close politically.
Indeed there is; unfortunately Obama upped the number of entitlement cuts before Boehner shot it down with Plan B.
You just contradicted yourself; earlier you said that Obama offered $400 billion in entitlement cuts, and now you say it's $400 billion. Either way, you're wrong.
Don't like the deep social spending cuts, but at least we're cutting down our bloated defense budgget.
Better ways to find savings in Medicare, but good enough.
I'll take 'em for ending those goddamn Bush tax cuts.
THANK YOU. The Clinton tax rates aren't perfect, but they are better than what we have now.
THANK YOU again. It isn't that big of a tax increase, at least compared to what our economy has handled before.
Here's where you @!$%#ed up. Most liberals don't think higher taxes will create jobs or prosperity; those who do are either overly-simplistic or think that the increased taxes will encourage more investment in businesses to decrease taxable income, which isn't a foolish thought. It's a helluva lot better than saying tax cuts for the rich create jobs...
Yes. It's about time America stopped getting high on the low tax drug and start paying more to help the nation recover.
This isn't exactly true. We don't necessarily need a budget surplus (although I would argue for one, just because I am a true Keynesian); the bare minimum is a deficit that is under 3% of GDP. We don't have to decrease the nominal value of the debt; that's not how we reduced our debt burden from World War II. What we could do is pay all of our inflation-adjusted interest dues for about 20 years and see the debt shrink as our economy grows. The debt decreases with inflation, and since economic growth causes inflation (and expands the size of the economy) the debt burden will shrink compared to the size of our economy, which is how most nations reduce their debt. Essentially, we just need to have the debt grow at a slow pace and let our economy grow faster.
Wrong again, my fascist friend. Greed isn't raising taxes; it's people refusing to repay society for all of the benefits that it has given them.
"McConnell said: "It's the president's job — it's his job — to find a solution that can pass the Congress."
If, as this politican claims, it is the presidents job to put forth all solutions for any problems..what in the world are we voters and tax payers paying all those politicans ion congress for ? They were elected to find the solutions and make up the laws of this country..and so far not one has come up with any kind of compromise ..it seems it is either the republicans way or no way. COmpromise has to come from both sides...we have a congress comprised of millionaires who see things only one way..theirs.
I honestly can't believe you can post this with a straight face after 4 years of Reid holding the Senate hostage and Obama saying "raise taxes on millionaires or we go over the cliff"...
Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees...damn.
it does seem like boehner is trying.thats more then i thought id see.and i dont blame the president either.hes looking out for us.hes not taking any excuses this time the rich are going to be paying more period.why are the wealthy pulling out all the stops to crush a 3 percent tax increase.3 percent is nothing to them.what theyre scared to death of is seeing that 3 percent doesnt hurt them the rest of us will be after the other 35 percent they got from reagan.we should have a 70 percent tax rate on the rich as well as tariffs that protect american workers.we need a congress and a supreme court that puts the american worker first.not just a president
YAWN....bottom line, critics of 'boner' just want to keep spending money we don't have...period.
I voted for NONE of YOU on this message board. What? You think your opinion is going to change the minds of those in Washington. No matter how long a message you leave, or how short, for that matter, it is in one ear out the other to readers. And I seriously doubt any Congressmen/women read such inane banter. That is all.
Browenstein,
I can't believe you would post this after Bonehead Boehner holding the House hostage for 4 years!
At least the Republicans have the freedom to vote according to what they offered their constituents. The Democrats only vote as a flock of sheep, which can be thrown to the cliff blindly if Princess Pelosi orders. them. Hail Princess Pelosi
The bankers are some of the power groups that are demanding cuts to Social Security, Medicare etc.
This is a good article to remind public just what kind of people the bankers are and how they have corrupted the regulatory agencies that are supposed to keep them in line (what a joke):
"…Increasingly, society is defined by the aristocratic principle: the laws that apply to mere mortals do not apply to the financial nobles. America—as for that matter Europe, Japan and the other advanced economies—is a democracy in name only. The Oxford English Dictionary defines “plutocracy” as “rule by the wealthy.” Can anyone seriously dispute that this definition applies to the United States?"
The Libor swindle
22 December 2012
The latest sweetheart settlement with a major international bank, in this case involving criminal activities that financial regulators describe as “epic,” has once again lifted the lid on the cesspool of corruption otherwise known as the world financial system.
UBS, Switzerland’s largest bank, admitted this week to systematically rigging the London Interbank Offered Rate (Libor), the benchmark global interest rate to which hundreds of trillions of dollars of financial contracts are tied. It did so to increase its profits and conceal its financial problems.
UBS’s actions defrauded hundreds of millions of people who pay interest on mortgages, credit cards, student loans and car loans, as well as institutional investors such as pension funds and state and local governments, and countless millions of retirees who rely for income on fixed investments. The term grand larceny does not begin to describe the scale of this plunder…
...Increasingly, society is defined by the aristocratic principle: the laws that apply to mere mortals do not apply to the financial nobles. America—as for that matter Europe, Japan and the other advanced economies—is a democracy in name only. The Oxford English Dictionary defines “plutocracy” as “rule by the wealthy.” Can anyone seriously dispute that this definition applies to the United States?
In announcing the settlement with UBS, Lanny Breuer, the head of the Justice Department’s criminal division, sought to portray the settlement as a stinging rebuke to the banks. “We cannot, and we will not, tolerate misconduct on Wall Street,” he declared.
What a farce! Not only has the Libor swindle exposed the criminality of the banks, it has laid bare the nexus of corruption and complicity involving governments and financial regulators the world over.
It is sufficient to cite a few examples of the incestuous relationship between the banks and the regulators who supposedly police them:
• Mark Branson, in charge of bank supervision at the Swiss Financial Market Supervisory Authority, recused himself from the UBS investigation. Why? Because Mr. Branson headed UBS’s Japanese unit during the very years it carried out the Libor-rigging for which it has now pled guilty.
• Robert Khuzami, director of the Division of Enforcement of the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), has recused himself from a multibillion-dollar accounting fraud investigation by the SEC into Deutsche Bank. Why? Because before taking his SEC post, Khuzami was Deutsche Bank’s counsel for the Americas.
• Stephen Cutler, who, in his capacity as general counsel, is presently leading the defense of JPMorgan Chase in connection with a probe of billions in unexplained and concealed speculative losses, is a former head of enforcement at the SEC.
• Timothy Geithner, as president of the New York Federal Reserve Bank, knew about the rigging of Libor at least as early as 2007, according to documents released in recent months, yet did nothing to stop it. Obama appointed Geithner as his treasury secretary, a post he continues to hold.
• Bank of England Governor Mervyn King and his deputy, Paul Tucker, were likewise alerted to the Libor-rigging operation. They also looked the other way and did nothing. Tucker lied to a parliamentary committee last July when he said that until just weeks before, “we were not aware of allegations of dishonesty” in setting the Libor rate. Tucker continues to serve as deputy governor of the Bank of England.
The bank regulatory agencies, loaded with former bank executives, facilitate the criminal activities of the banks rather than stopping or preventing them.
The global financial aristocracy can defraud, steal and plunder with impunity, knowing it will be protected by a thoroughly bribed political system that it dominates. The day-to-day functioning of the capitalist financial system has assumed the form of a criminal conspiracy against the people.
This is not a system that can be reformed. Its rampant criminality is not the result of “bad apples.” Illegality and corruption are intrinsic to the system itself…
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/12/22/pers-d22.html
Actually clwyd-2621393 I favor going over the cliff. This country is being spent into oblivion, and there isn't a proposal being discussed in Washington to stop that fact. Liberals have been complaining for years that the Bush tax cuts caused our financial mess, so liberals should be in favor of seeing them come to an end for everyone. This country spends far too much money, so the more cuts the better. I don't really care who gets blamed for going over the cliff, the last two administrations have overseen the most irresponsible fiscal behavior in the country's history. Again, I don't care who you want to blame for it, right now Obama is president and he is either up to the task of actually leading us to a solution or not. So far he has done nothing to suggest he even cares about the massive debt being run up on his watch. We need term limits in congress, a totally revamped tax code, and a balanced budget amendment. Nothing else has even a remote chance of success, and history proves that fact.
Balance the Budget - Stop the debt burden on our children
Get rid of tax loop holes and reduce spending by 10%.
The article frames the dilemma as "Boener's fiscal path".
It's not a governmental issue.
If you the voter can't vote for someone who raises your taxes or cuts your benefits, doesn't that make a budget a voter problem?
Every 60 seconds this country is borrowing another $2.4 million dollars. You try to guess how much longer this country can survive without a catastrophic economic and societal collapse.
God only knows what this Bonerhead is doing, the Tea Movement said they would rather fall off the cliff than agree to a compromise with President Obama, these Tea Loonies say this is more about revenge the way the Dem's embarrassed our RobMeHood in the Election !!!!!!!!!!!
Tea Activists brought the U.S.A. its first down grade in History, now they want to push us over the Cliff !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
T'was the night before Christmas,
And all through the House,
Not a creature was working,
Not even this souse...
The "Fiscal Cliff" is bull @!$%#.
Both parties (especially the Democrats) have constructed it to scare you into accepting big cuts to so-called "entitlements", much like the Iraqi WMD were falsified to scare the public into accepting the Irag invasion, war and occupation.
They didn't "pay" for the Iraq war either. They just printed money (deficit spending). They do that all the time to bail out the bankers (who caused the crash in 2008) and to start a war but not to fund social programs that keep millions of Americans out of poverty.
Then it's "bad" and has to be slashed.
Don't worry. They'll come together finally to screw the american public.
That's what the whole "Fiscal Cliff" sham is all about, after all: cutting social programs like SS and Medicare that keep millions of people out of poverty.
And I have to say, reading polls, talking to people at work, etc., the American public is ripe for a good shafting. From the Right to the Left from the Tea Party to Progressives they are all very deluded one way or the other.
Despite all of the evidence and recent history to the contrary, Progressives believe Obama and the Democrats are really on their side and are their saviors and Tea Party types believe (in spite of all the evidence) that Obama is a socialist (!) and people like the Koch Brothers and "Free-Market" capitalism are their role models and saviors.
Funny, with all the information available compared to the past, people had a better idea of what was going on and who their friends and enemies were back in the 1930's.
People are much more brainwashed, now. They have much more knowledge about technical things but a lot less common sense (as it applies to political/national/economic events).
Back in the '30's most people got their day to day information about the world and country from radio. Since the 1950's it's been visual, too, with TV.
So the BS is more effective. Like the saying goes: Seeing is believing.
Here's something I found online that is NOT BS:
Obama's Historic Assault on Social Security
A Black Agenda Radio commentary by Glen Ford
"He can accomplish what Republicans only dream about."
President Obama and his Republican partners in austerity have choreographed a kind of bi-partisan ballet, in which the dancers reach out to each other in slow motion, their fingers almost touching, teasing the audience. These cheap and transparent theatrics are designed to transmit a soap opera-like sense of drama: "Can the two parties come to a compromise for the sake of the country?" But, the fact is, Obama and the Republicans reached most of their grand bargain more than a year ago, when they slashed $1.7 trillion out of domestic spending over a decade. As liberal Obamite Robert Kuttner, of Demos, points out, there's very little left to cut except Medicare and Social Security.
Social Security has always been Obama's Great White Whale; he's conspired with Republicans and right-wing Democrats to harpoon the mother of all New Deal programs since the very start of his presidency. But Social Security is not an easy mark. George Bush found that out in his second term, when he suffered his worst domestic defeat in attempting to privatize the program.
It would take a Black Democrat, fresh from a near-landslide election, to put Social Security on the chopping block, as Obama did in January of 2009. But before he could move in for the kill, Obama and his allies had to convince the public that Social Security is a major contributor to the federal budget deficit – which is a lie. Social Security runs on its own stream of revenues that go into the Social Security Trust Fund, totally separate from general taxation and debt. However, by endless repetition of the Big Lie – that Social Security adds to the federal deficit – Obama and other corporate Democrats and Republicans succeeded in maneuvering the program into the austerity debate, where it does not belong…
http://blackagendareport.com/content/obama's-historic-assault-social-security
Probusiness,
And keep in mind that $700,000 is for the the 4 lost bush wars that he lied about WMD to get us into. Another $400,000 is for the bloated military budgets!
Talk about being between a rock & a hard place... lol
Sooner or later the GNOP's "games" would catch up with them.
Nice to see that damn Karma has come back to bite Boehner on his orange ass!
Yo Ho Feisty ... are we all here on Monday, are the FR elves at work, or do we toss season greetings around today?
Fesity, been a tough week for us all.
To change the subject - I saw a post last night where you mentioned your daughter is home for the holidays. I know she's a teacher and the Ct shooting must have been tough for your family.
My only wish for you is to have a wonderful holiday season while your daughter is home.
This bit of bad PR for the GOP is a nice holiday present for me. But don't get too complacent. Even though they are doggedly backing themselves into a corner they aren't going away any time soon. There is nothing more dangerous than desperate egotistical ideologues with no morals, no ideas and no options.
Thanks for asking, Pat - I am so lucky to have you as a friend.
Every one of these tragedies distress her, but this one rocked her to her core!
The majority of her students are the same age as the angels lost in Newton, on top of the fact they have multiple disabilities.
As she said to me; "Mom, other than throwing myself on top of them, it is virtually impossible to protect them"...
You enjoy your Christmas with those grand-girls of yours! ☺
What I found amazing is when the house rats came out of the session with Boehner, Eric Cantor was Smiling from Ear to Ear. All week he has been saying the House would pass the Pathetic plan B. He just jacked Boehner into making a FOOL out of him self...not hard to do...but for his own power move in January.
The sad part is the GNOP/Baggers are self imploding and taking the rest of the country with them.
We need to Keep reminding everyone of this treacherous behavior in 20014 mid-terms
Have a Great holidays and keep your fingers crossed. (I'm calling & E-mailing my Senate Cowards daily)
"There is nothing more dangerous than desperate egotistical ideologues with no morals, no ideas and no options."
You are talking about Obama, right ?
Feisty: How does your daughter feel about all the kids butchered by abortion, oh wait she is your daughter so she probably has the same hypocritical attitude that you have!!!! Sad for the 20 but not for the millions!!!!
Amid the glee at seeing orange-glo once again fail to achieve, let's not lose sight of the fact that the whole ruse was just an attempt to shift blame and would have gone no further had it passed.
Another way to look at the situation that will be satisfying one day is that the gerry-mandering that kept the party of NO front and center in the House after it was clear that the VAST majority of actual Americans wanted it to stop will indeed lead to the ultimate disintegration of the GOP.
Oh man, I really hope we don't have to wait that long..
On a side note I saw that Mitch McConnell filibustered his own bill in the senate... That would have been even funnier if the rules had been changed so that he would actually have to get up and talk until the time limit expired...
Peace and Merry X-Mas fellow Lefties...
Feisty & Pat: If that tragedy does not rock anyone with a heart, I can only hope they get help.
iowaretiree
"Feisty: How does your daughter feel about all the kids butchered by abortion, oh wait she is your daughter so she probably has the same hypocritical attitude that you have!!!! Sad for the 20 but not for the millions!!!!"
Wow... Aren't you the partial birth abortion of the day now!!!
I'm curious, since you retired in Iowa, who took over for you as pivot-person at that circle-jerk? Are you still knob-gargling part-time to supplement your S.S.I.? Busy retirement eh?... Those Bibles don't thump themselves y'know... Did Michelle Bachman win some sort of a poll out there in no-mans-land a while back?
One could note the Tyrannosaurus Rex became extinct approximately 65 million years ago.
Boehner. What a feeble excuse for a leader.
Obama. What a feeble excuse for a leader.
Harry Reid. What a feeble excuse for a leader.
Irving99 and other like-minded folk think they're so smart and have everything figured out. At what point did the typical democrat voter decide that their alliance to a certain political party gave them exclusive rights to be intellectually superior to all others? And to Pedestrian-in-SF....well, what more needs to be said. Funny stuff from gravy lickers who somehow have interpreted BOs trumpeting for tax hikes on the rich and the solution to our problems. WHat a bunch of simpletons. Let all temp tax reductions expire,initiate all required spending cuts and watch the gravy lickers run for cover. It would all be worth it.
Chick Binder
Your foul mouth only precedes your low IQ.
Some of you are so libtarded, you need a helmet.
"Obama. What a feeble excuse for a leader."
"Boehner: 'God only knows' how fiscal cliff deal gets done"
God wasn't elected to do this job..you were Bonehead!!!
This guy is just two heartbeats from the presidency and MUST deliver something from the house at some point and his only answer is "God only knows?!!??!?" WTF?
Feisty - While I enjoy the bantering and such, I can't help but notice that you and Pigotry, and a few more are always the first to comment. Now, at the very least, you have an inside with the editors, and the very worst, you are MSNBC employees paid to blog so that you can create long comment strings with your full-left name calling. Somewhere in the middle, I'm guessing an independent contractor paid either by the comment, or by the number of responses?
Care to comment on that one? Feisty? Pigotry? Alaska Girl? American Girl?
Charlie-1915998 "Except he's kicking Republicans asses all over Washington."
Which proves what Chuck? Obama isn't getting anything done. Division, partisanship, class warfare, massive deficits, and massive debt. Wow, way to show those Republicans. When Obama has to take to the podium to make comments like take off your partisan warpaint, or issue veto threats he isn't leading, and he isn't helping. Obama has a singular focus, tax the wealthy, and that solves nothing. This country is drowning in debt, and Obama has offered nothing to solve that fact. So be as giddy as you want Chuck, obviously it takes very little to impress you. True leaders accept responsibility and overcome the obstacles. They do not make excuses or find someone else to blame for failing. Obama has done nothing but fail as a leader.
The 1% own the GOP and they are the ones that got us into this Mess, let the 1% get us out !!!
Did you know the Koch Baggers started the Tea Movement so they can take over our Government !!
On The Record
The Republicans are officially the Party that protects Millionaires
.
I write one thing until I get it just the way I like it, and then write it over and over and over and...
Sounds like a Republican. Repeat a lie until you are sure that everyone you can convince to believe it has heard it.
Dennis, The GOP are Officially the Party of Tea Loonies that protects Billionaires !!!!!!!!!!!!!
God only knows? Possibly, but I am sure She doesn't give a damn. Maybe Satan has some advice, I understand He is more fiscally conservative when reading descriptions of His decor ... just fire and brimstone. Those golden harps and fluffy wings are entitlements.
On a completely different subject . . .
Nevermind.
You may regret saying these things someday. But I doubt you care about that given your post. Making your own bed.
Seeing as how Satan is the one that got kicked out of the house and is currently living in a basement with no AC and has been villified by all Gods friends for hundreds of years..........yeah, I think they got the genders right.
eph521
Do tell how. Something concrete would be of value.
It's real easy @blackcat, if you're wrong about God/Satan, you'll have to answer to Him someday. I guess for your sake, you should hope God doesn't exist.
Well, eph521, you're going to have a major disappointment when your time is up.
eph521
If you think that God cares about what gender is used, you are not safe. As someone who lives a moral and ethical life, I feel quite safe no matter what. That man persists in seeing God as male is a man's first mistake and I have left that building.
You should wear a helmet that informs everyone you're libtarded and prone to bias tantrums.
Regardless of what God has to say on the matter, January 1st will (hopefully) come. 2013 that is. And my bed is where I dream. I'm sure America has dreams too. No matter who you vote for, you've got to lay in your American bed. We should all be thankful SOMEBODY ran for office. They should be treated like the old "Fearless Leaders." that they are.
What stunning failures in leadership. The GOP Plan B strategy (if you can call it that) falls apart and what do they do---- go home for Christmas. Asked about how to move forward, Boehner punts. What is amazing to me is that even 17% of the American people approves of Congress. Isn't there one Republican who will put the country first?
Steeler
Boehner was told not to go there, but he did. Now, if Obama had swung behind the proposal and a few handfulls of democrats the measure would have passed and the "Cliff" averted. BUT, nevermind the facts, "it is all the republicans fault is the reigning theme of the day".
Things will not change until this ultra partisan falsehood is abandoned.
You're libtardedness is almost as douchy as your QB
Akron
Isn't negotiation supposed to be a back and forth?
Boehner said: Heres my plan, 1mil and up on taxes, massive spending cuts. Your turn.
Obama said: How about this, I'll up it from 250k to 400k and throw in some SS spending cuts. Your turn.
Boehner: I think I'll take my ball and go play with those guys instead
<Boehner: Walks up to the Republican Congressmen and gets told to go away>
Boehner: Guys! Why won't you let me play with you?Fine, I'll just go home.
----
Boehner couldn't continue to negotiate, hell he didn't even bother trying to reiterate his previous offer. He just walked off the court.
And you think the democrats have put the country first how. I will agree the Republicans certainly have ben acting stupid but the democrats certainly have been acting equally stupid. I noticed Obama has stopped refering to Buffet since he said he thinks taxes should not go up on anyone making a million or less a year. The reason... because it will hurt small business. It is time for total reform of the tax code and entitlement programs. For the record I do not consider SS a enititlement. Obama wants to always take everything back to the Clinton era then why not do the same with the entitlement programs. Clinton enacted many reforms and Obama has done away with them. Neither side has clean hands so get over yourselves and grow up.
Boehner is the biggest sc**bag ever. What a arrogant turd that's held our country hostage. He should be thrown out with the garbage and no benefits of pension. This should make everyone furious.
To stay objective as a journalist ,I do not vote for anyone ,but raise questions to apprach the heart ,minds of mere men,women.
The Massachusetts Colonial army forbearers of Tea lovers ,were the same who Massacred the Narragansettes Native in the Great swamp ,while they slept, These insecure ,greedy men murdered all men women and children on December 19,1675 while Roger Williams looked on and others . What a great present under the tree that year?
No spin doctor can eulogize it off the books.
.
What a total joke the repubs are... just when you think they can't sink any lower.
Guess what, Speaker Boehner, you do not have to have all of the Republican Representatives vote on a bill to have it pass the House. All you need to do is get a majority of Representatives, be they Republican, or Democrat. Bring President Obama's offer to a vote, and see what happens. I'm betting that you'd get over 275+ Republican and Democratic votes in favor of it, and we could avoid this fiscal cliff.
Be a man, Boehner, stand up to the extremists in your party, and do the right thing.
What is more important to you? Millionaires, and the crazies in your party, or the American people?
Doesn't take a rocket scientist, Mr. Boehner, to do what the American people want Congress to do. If we suffer financially because of you and your House Republicans, America will lay the blame squarely where it belongs and that is on your shoulders. You Republicans have lost your way and you are trying to drag us all down with you. Get your a## back to work and get this deal done.
My sentiments exactly. Get in a room, close the door and don't come out til it's done!!!!
Obama wants more revenue, doesn't want to make real cuts...so if we go over the fiscal cliff its a win-win for him because he'll get more revenue (from all of us) and won't have to make any REAL cuts and on top of all that good news for him....he'll get to point the finger at the republicans and say "you did this".
Democrats play a much better game of chess than the republicans...CHECKMATE GOTCHA AGIAN.
Compromise, compromise, compromise.... This is something both the Speaker AND the President better realize otherwise nothing will happen again. Where is leadership when you needed? If it doesn't happen, all leaders both Democrat and Republican need to be replaced, and this includes everyone.
"All need to be replaced", that has always been the republican cry after their party has f***ed everything up.
They have been compromising, especially Obama. Boehner and the GOP, not as much.
From an AP article:
Obama is now seeking $1.2 trillion in higher tax revenue, down from the $1.6 trillion he initially sought. He also has softened his demand for higher tax rates on household incomes so they would apply to incomes over $400,000 instead of the $250,000 he cited during his successful campaign for a new term.
He also has offered more than $800 billion in spending cuts over a decade, half of it from Medicare and Medicaid, $200 billion from farm and other benefit programs, $100 billion from defense and $100 billion from a broad swath of government accounts ranging from parks to transportation to education.
In a key concession to Republicans, the president also has agreed to slow the rise in cost-of-living increases in Social Security and other benefit programs, at a savings estimated at about $130 billion over a decade.
By contrast, Boehner's most recent offer allowed for about $940 billion in higher taxes over a decade, with higher rates for annual incomes over $1 million.
Yes, but he campaigned, and got elected, on what he called "a grand bargain” that would match $2.50 worth of spending cuts for every $1 of new revenue. Neither of the offers you mention (as compromises) are even 1 to 1 meaning he is breaking his promise to the electorate. His "compromises" have yet to meet his campaign promises. That is fact and not spin.
Mdub44- you must have your politicians confused- Obama never made that promise.He knows the country cannot run on that kind of thinking. We need more revenue and lower taxes are not the way. spending cuts over 10 years are a farce.
Televise the discussions. - no phones, no backroom negotiations. put them in front of live cameras and let the chips fall where they may for both sides but sit down and work this out. I bet we have a settlement in less than 3 hours if they did this.
Leadership would have been meeting Boehner on the capping of deductions.
Leadership would have been saying I could go for the incease on just those making over $1,000,000.
Leadership would have been giving dozens of areas government spending could be cut without harming those dependent upon it.
What we have as president is a rigid ideologue and a lot of representatives that don't want to be another "read my lips, no new taxes" victim Bush 41.
bob in los angels (10.4):
BINGO! This should happen all the time when there is a fiscal crisis. There should be a mandate for the debate (and that's putting it politely) to be broadcast live so WE, THE PEOPLE, know EXACTLY how our elected officials are trying to do to settle it quickly.
Does anyone out there have any ideas as to how to make this happen? Please let me (us) know!!!!
Leadership is: Here is my proposal, what's yours? And then you go back and forth a few times and you meet in the middle.
Leadership is not taking the 1st proposal in the last 4 years where Republicans would allow some kind of tax hike to occur, especially when you've got the upper hand.
I'm afraid if either party went on the record we would get nothing but lies, damn lies, and just plain BS. Have you ever watched C-Span. Terribly boring, but enlightening. Like you could listen to waves crashing and fall asleep faster.
This has actuall reached the point of being funny. So the greedy Conservatives didn't like Boehner's "Plan B"? Just wait till the Plan A (the plan Boehner & the GOP agreed to a year ago in exchange for extending the Bush Tax Cut for the Wealthy) take effect in 11 days. The first thing that will happen is that the defense contractors and government suppliers will have their contracts cut and they'll be put out of business. These are the companies who backed the GOP with millions during the elections. Wow are they going to be mad. Of course it'll mean that more middle-class jobs will disappear, but we're used to it. Wonder how the corporate executives will enjoy losing their income and their McMansions. On top of great Karma we'll get the budget in line faster as well. Boehner, Norquist and the Koch brothers better put their tails between their legs and start begging President Obama for a deal or get ready to join the unemployment lines.
The President has an offer on the table. You know the same offer you walked away from Boehner. Either accept his offer or make a reasonable counter offer. Otherwise, when January 1st comes, I hope the President takes every concession that he's made off the table and, since taxes will go up on January 1st, the President should make as his offer an across the board tax cut on the 1st $250K of income using the Bush tax rates. He also should refuse to negotiate over the debt ceiling insisting on a clean debt ceiling bill to be followed by negotiations. Time to end the hostage taking once and for all.
"since taxes will go up on January 1st, the President should make as his offer an across the board tax cut on the 1st $250K of income using the Bush tax rates"
I've wondered about that. I haven't heard anyone talk about how much leverage the dems will have with the tax rates if we go over the cliff...if they create a bill to lower taxes for $250K and lower, don't the republicans "have to" pass it? They can complain about bills not continuing the tax rates for $250k and above before Jan 1st...but after that higher taxes are the starting point and they should want to reduce them for anyone given the chance.
By "have to" I mean based on their ideology and their insistence to stick to it. I don't think they actually would agree to it.
Hamster, with Grover Norquist giving his blessing to a tax "increase" on millionaires in Boehner's plan B, their "principals" can bend in the wind. Maybe Norquist was channeling Romney.
One thing that Republicans can ask for and would make complete sense is to not have a marriage penalty with the new tax rates. I think the original deal was higher rates for singles at $200K, married filing joint at $400K. I would think the final rates should have a married filing joint rate twice that as the single rates.
With grover giving his blessing, that invalidates his pledge. grover broke his own pledge LMFAO. That shows how the republican/tea party is losing all its glory. 2010 is just a fart in the windstorm now. Happy Holidays
Al
Your avatar says it all. The democrats are nothing more than the minions of Darth Sidious, the dark side of the force.
What people like PIGATORY and the rest of the left don't understand is that the Republicans can care less about you people and your comments on how they protect the rich. Sure the right have the majority of the rich, and don't want higher taxes no more than you do. But, they can care less if Democrats want to work with them on a bill because if the country go down the drain, Obama gets the credit for it on his history record. The only thing the history books will show him responsible for are things like, High unemployment his whole term, National debt increasment by 6-10 trillion dollars, no foreign diplomacy, higher taxation and lower income, socialism, crashing the SSI system, Obamacare, the housing implosion, government bailouts for banks and the auto industry, fast and furious, weakness on gun controll, the deaths in Bengazi, and many other atributes. So for you people who waste your time claiming republicans only want to protect the rich, don't forget that ALL those government people are rich....INCLUDING DEMOCRATS!
I won't list here anything Obama has done that is good. I'll just get in my foreign car and drive away.
Thank God,people like you are in a minority.
The Peter Principle is alive and well among the GOP. In fact, they have risen well beyond their level of incompetence.
Actually, they hit their high point at age 3 when they were promoted from diapers to underwear. They have been nowhere since.
Never mind, John. Your caucus won't listen to God, either.
tea party Plan A = Anarchy
Let us not FORGET that President Obama has sent two Budget bills to the SENATE and Harry Reid and No Democrats, that's ZERO, NADA, NONE voted for Obama's bill...What a Total Joke Obama and Reid are... THE AMERICAN PEOPLE are laughing at them.......
The "AMERICAN PEOPLE" voted him back into office. If we were laughing, it wasn't at him...
Another idiot who doesn't understand parliamentary procedure, or the nuances of the politics behind those votes. Besides, those were budgets that were proposed last year, and the year before, not a part of the ongoing negotiations. Do try to keep up.
Oh, and BO, you do not speak for the 'AMERICAN PEOPLE', you are not that important, except in your own mind. howieCA got it right.
Sorry, I'm an "American People" and I'm not laughing. Boehner doesn't have the support of his own party. He can't even make a deal with Obama if he wanted to... but somehow it's Obama's fault. Yeah right.
bobama And your point? What does that have to do with today? Your party is in such disarray it can't even stick together.
BOBAMA - you dream - YOU LOST - you will continue to lose - and PRESIDENT - yeppers PRESIDENT Obama will move this country forward without your good old boys and more of the same self centered arrogant, self serving liars that you are all proving to be AGAIN!!!! All so worried about your millionaires - you are owned by your tea baggers and hopefully you will all self implode - or we'll get you all out of office in 2014!!!! To even be trying to balance this budget by saving your fat cats asses and take money away from social security recipients and even DARE to say that you will try to raise the eligibility age for Medicare - just proves how truly HORRIBLE you all are. YOU LOST - WE WON - YES WE DID - YES WE CAN - AND WE WILL GO FORWARD WITHOUT YOUR SELF SERVING ARROGANT BONER!!!! and his cronies. yep - go home for the holidays you cry baby immature greedy bastards.
Pigotry. You are an internet troll. Get a life.
Bye bye Boehner and GOP Establishment. Hope the Tea Party replaces you with someone competent enough to stop Obama and his tyranny.
the only thing the tea party has the political power to replace is a fresh roll.
Mr Boehner should be committed.....to a mental instsitution along with the rest of his incompetent cohorts..................
How does it get done? Simple. Look at where Boehner was before the "Plan B" proposal, and where Obama was. Not very far apart at all. Split the difference and make the freakin' deal, already!
I agree in principle, but Plan B is because Boehner knows his own party won't support Plan A. Even if Obama and Boehner strike a deal, the House GOP will block it. Kind of easy to see where the problem is.
We don't know if the GOP will block it unless they actually try. Failure to try is unacceptable. Failure to pass a compromise, if brought to the floor, would put the GOP in a very serious bind, because the public would see exactly who is to blame. Since Boehner has lost the confidence of his party, he has nothing left to lose now by compromising and letting the votes tell the real story.
hey howie - and PLEASE do not forget to leave social security and medicare alone - these are NOT ENTITLEMENTS. we all paid into this - i did for over 40 years and need that money and coverage now - how dare they even mention raising the age for medicare. i worked all these years contributing to these plans and need it when i turn 65 next year!!!! IT'S OUR MONEY - let them tax the rich - these greedy bastards
OMG How much more stiff necked r they going to be? Does their heads have to actually fall of their necks. They act like they do'nt know that "entitlements" have been getting cut for the last 3 yrs they drew blood a few years ago, now they are down to the bone and still want to cut. I worked all my working life single with no dependents I know all about paying taxes. But now i am disabled and all i hear is cut, cut cut like they are giving me something., when I was working they told me I did not have a choice of the money taken from my pay. Now they want to act like they are giving me something I have not worked for. Where's all the money they saved from programs they discontinued previously they never talk about that. Our seniors are in a terrible state and no one cares. The gov makes them a ward of the state gives them a guardian that works for the system and when they die the state gets their property or properties this is invisible revenue they do'nt talk about. When those Govenors got together from diff states having those meetings, caucauses or summits whatever you want to call them it has been decided what they want to do to the american labor market before they bring all those jobs they took away yrs ago outsourcing. The jobs being done by the prison population will never be mainstream jobs again. Corporate america wants all the trimmings without even giving up scraps.
entitle -
Then why are we paying more on entitlements today than when Obama first got into office?
"How do we get there?" I know.. get rid of this embarrassing crop of Republican "leaders" who seem more interested in failed attempts at gamesmanship than solving real problems. The silver lining of the "Plan B" fiasco is it has finally exposed the serious disarray in the Republican party, even to the biggest Kool Aid drinkers.
Somebody's got to try to put a halt on the excessive spending of this administration.
Face it, Obama and the democrats' spending levels are Bush and the republicans on steroids.
I think your incompetence when it comes to working with your president, Mr Boehner, is at least one of the factors.
I hope that the current tax cuts expire and the sequestration occurs. This is the best outcome for deficit reduction and hence our country. Congress isn't going to make a better deal for America. In January, the more level-headed Senate can propose a tax cut for household incomes under $250,000. Then the House will be faced with a decision to approve a tax cut or not. If not, then 98% of us will have to suffer a couple quarters recession to emerge with our nation no longer deficit spending.
Chris,
You took the words right out of my mouth. President Obama won re-election on a platform of returning those with incomes over $250,000/year to the Clinton tax rates. It is time to do just that. What a shame that the running of our country has come to this. Talking points and empty bravado instead of compromise to solve our nation's problems. I hope that everyone sees finally what it is that drives the Republican Party of 2012. This is not the party of Lincoln, T. Roosevelt & Eisenhower.
The sad thing is that sequestration does not go nearly far enough to rein in the spending. There need to be cuts of 20% across the board just for this year. Additional cuts in following years.
Fire every administrator that can't find all of the waste in their departments.
"Carol Of Another Christmas" 1964 Movie PLEASE WATCH
If what the Speaker has said that "God only knows..." then Mr. Boehner should resign as he does not understand the political process -- and the same can be said of most of his Republican colleagues.
I am sure we as a Nation have a better chance of witnessing a Miracle of God than the Republican party doing whats right for America...
I am hopelessly confused.
So a deal can be reached without votes from conservative Republican House members? So why hasn't a deal been made? I don't get this.
To get a deal through that the democrats will vote for, it has to be a deal that democrats will vote for. Up until now, the speaker has been trying to get a deal through that would put the ball in the the dems court. To do that it would have to be a party line vote in the house. BUT, if he puts forward a deal that he knows that a few of his republican friends and all of the democrats will vote for, he can pass it without the help of the crazies in the house. They can be bypassed. Up until this point he has not attempted that because it would look too much like he's working across the aisle with Obama instead of against him. But, he might be rethinking that strategy now and just decide to go with an Obama/Reid plan that can get through the house with all dems and some fairminded republicans voting it through.
Well, that could happen, but it would basically kill the unity of the Republican Party and make them weaker than ever.
Personally, I have always voted Republican, but the Tea Partiers are really killing the party. I'm not exactly fond on Obama either (he's just a showman who blames others for his own failures - he's lucky to have such an incompetent set of political opponents, who never fail to embarrass themselves and take the pressure off himself).
We need level-headed, centrists in Washington. People who aren't interested in grand schemes to completely change the country. We don't need to ban all guns, we don't need to focus every ounce of our energy on global warming, we don't need to cut taxes across the board for everyone, we don't need to cut spending by ridiculous amounts. Change is a nice-sounding word, but it's usually really expensive and brings out extremism and divisiveness. We need to strike a balance between both the left and right positions.
"Well, that could happen, but it would basically kill the unity of the Republican Party and make them weaker than ever."
I don't think that it would make them look weak. I think it would show that the GOP is tired of being sidelined by a few extremists in the group. I think it would show that the speaker is willing to bench the crazies for the greater good. That is the mark of a true leader. I think you would see the approval numbers go up for both parties, and especially for the speaker, if he pulled something like that off.
N-529260 No one is suggesting "grand schemes to change the country" or "to ban all guns" or to " focus every ounce of our energy on global warming" or "to cut taxes across the board on everyone" or to "cut spending by ridiculous amounts".
It is your reality that unbalanced.
Maybe folks want G.Busch back, so he can start another war, without counting cost again ,as a famous person once said? Has not this left the GLASS less than half full for most except for certain contractors?
The blame is on those who take a break for a traditional good time instead of mature serious Biz?
What have the peoples elected ,"party people" as a religion ,or mature men and women acting in the "peoples" best interest regardless of affiliation ,coat of arms, family history egotisms ,culture,race,education,background,personal views based on distorted educated power ?
Thanks for explanation of how the House could pass a deal with Democratic and moderate Republican votes. Sounds like the way to go, for me.
Government needs to work on its spending problem. The first step towards rehabilitation is recognizing you have a problem. Come on libs make that first step.
??? Obama has offered nearly a trillion in spending cuts. He's acknowledged it loud and clear. "This" close to a deal (Plan A) and then Boehner walks away and comes out with Plan B? The House GOP are holding our country hostage.
Every one should E-mail their House Representatives & Boehner...you can find out where on the House web site. Bombard these clowns and let them know How you feel about the Games they are playing. Call and leave a message. But email them often.
eph, you seem knowledgeable about the Obama spending cuts. Can you provide a example of a government program Obama wants to cut and how many dollars it will be reduced by next year compared to this year?
Libs made that "first step" long ago. Pay attention.
Theo, you wouldn't know by the way they continue to waste money. It looks like if they ever made that first step they have relapsed and are in deeper trouble than before.
Okay, Common Man, can you provide us with examples of how they "continue to waste money", along with an accounting of how much they contributed to the federal debt?
no problem gumps, I can give you some first hand experience. I am retired now but worked as a consultant to get government approval for large construction projects. Government first response to any project is have dozens of people in government tell you why something can not be done. You then need to spend considerable money and time proving them wrong while they continue to argue. A complete waste of time. Additionaly you may missed the news about the lavish 5 star retreats the GAO and SS provide. Have you ever boarded a plane and wonder who is sitting in those first class seats. I have a friend who is a pilot and he tells they are mostly filled with people from the government. Have you not seen the news about the lavish million dollar vacations the Obamas take? One last thing for now have you not heard of the US Post Office? and Obama cell phones. Open your eyes the list goes on and on and on.
Still waiting to hear about those government spending cuts!
Get Harry Reid and his cohorts to quit jacking off the public and make some spending cuts, then you might get Boehner to raise some taxes. The dems want to raise the taxes and then think about cuts,which they have lied about every other time it has been brought up in the past 40 years. None of these wealthy politicians will get hurt if the economy falters, just the little guy and it will be both parties fault in the end.
tom, we already put 1 trillion in cuts on the table, can that at least be agreed upon and then move onto finer points? Gee you'd think the GOP have the maturity to do at least that.
Common, a 10% cut on almost every government program, and, as a compromise, only a 5% cut to the military, leaving it 7+% still wasteful according to CBO and forbes estimates. If republicans want more, fine, but tell us where they want it, and no, you can't gut pp or the federal school lunch program. Both moves would be highly irresponsible and the second one would damage many disadvantaged families around the country in many ways.
I got a Plan B for you, Mr. Boner: BLOW ME!!!
eph -
Cuts in future spending are not real cuts. So what if they say they will spend $1 trillion less than they would have, they are NOT cutting actual spending!
What is so hard for liberals to understand about living within the country's means?