Absolutely agree Alan!

Turns out Simpson-Bowles was right. It was everyone else who chose to ignore the panel.

I would like to see a Budget by January as well....

He's killed a million times before. Video games make mass murder fun! IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE!

Notice the focus is on taking away "rights," while forgetting the source of the problem, "mental health." They will address that, when all the guns are gone, and a crazy blows up a school...

Exactly how many laws are in the pipe line to help protect our schools? Where is the funding to provide security for our schools? Guns and lunatics have been around for a long time. School security probably cost too much, and has not improved. It is easier for politicians to target gun control, because it is politics, it does nothing to protect our children from the nutcases.

jpintar - when are you going to realize that most law abiding gun owners do not kill people? How about addressing mental health in the United States?

State laws on qualifying to buy guns need a national registry for conformity. Not banning guns - although banning Bushmasters like used in the CT shooting works for me - but regulating who qualifies to buy one, with mandatory training/testing. This coupled with better funding and access to mental health care for for families with "adult" members needing help - there is too little funding.

we all have a vested interest in reducing homicide by gun. after all, it could have been my kids or yours. what we should not do is make it worse! it is counter-intuitive, but the australian experience is undeniable, gun homicides soared after guns were banned. the district of columbia has the most restrictive gun laws and by far the highest gun related homicide rate. states with more liberal concealed carry laws have lower homicide rates. switzerland is very interesting. they have a very low gun related homicide rate. every household is issued a rifle and every citizen is trained to shoot. there is truth to the contention that restricting guns does not inhibit criminals anymore than restricting drugs or prostitution works. consider this, had any one or more of those teachers had concealed carry weapons and marksmanship training, far fewer would have died.

japintar, all teachers and school aids are armed in Israel, might have something to do with the fact that no gunman has attacked a schoo therel since the 70's.

IMO, violence in popular culture has very little to do with violence in real life. People like to drag movies and video games into events like these, just like they liked to drag heavy metal "devil worshiping" music a few decades back with no evidence to back up any relation between the two.

Fact of the matter is that the most violent cultures and societies in human history, both ancient and current, had little or absolutely no access to video games and movies. What are the video games that terrorist in dirt poor Arabic and Islamic countries play? What were the video games that Nazis played in WW2? What were the video games that the vikings played when they were raping and pilaging back in the middle ages? And how much violence is/was there in those societes compared to those that play video games?

The reality is that there are only two things that can be linked to violence: People and their access to Weapons (which directly affects the magnitude of the violence people can create).

Dragging popular culture in it is just a way to appease gun culture and make them think they're not just going after guns but at the perceived "cause" of the violence as well, that perceived cause being mental health (which I agree is an issue), and popular culture (which is just one more attempt on top of many that have been made throughout our history to base policy on prejudices rather than things that have been verified to have any relation with the problem they're attempting to address).

Columbine happened during the previous ban.

@ RockyMntRoustAbout

In the meantime, sure is satisfying constantly shoving everything down your unhonorable throats.

Thats because dictators have a constant satisfying appeal to the Leftists in this country.

Get a clue Obama gun bans don't work! Have they worked in Chicago? Have they worked in D.C.? Have they worked in Mexico? NO. If a psychopath wants to harm others a gun ban won't stop them it'll just ensure that guns are kept out of the hands of law abiding citizens.

Mike:

Ditto--it is the worst, irresponsible appt. for Leading Gun Control Laws. He is out of touch, and may laugh when Laws are presented to him---leading the Commission. Pff!

Give it to ex President Bill Clinton, and things will get done.

Think Ol' Stupid Joe will forget who his puppetmaster boss is and include a section on gunwalking and Fast & Furious in the commission's report?

jpintar, What exactly is a "30 round clip"? Your ignorance astounds me.... There is no such thing as a "30 round clip"... Also, check the gun laws in Switzerland who has the lowest murder rates.... Perhaps we should go with that model where EVERYONE goes through military training and then keeps the issues weapon with them throughout their lives...

There he goes - shooting his mouth off again.

Unfortunately the only thing that is going to come from all his new "gun control" is increased demands and costs on those who enjoy shooting for sport whether it's target shooting, as I do, or hunting as many others do. Then there is the additional cost in the loss of freedom that can never be measured in dollars and cents.

It's too bad that the big government can do everything anti gun zealots haven't learned the lesson that control of the tool is not the issue. If it was, Chicago would be the safest city on the face of the planet - shooting wise - and Mexico wouldn't lead the non-warring world in murders.

One day - far after it is too late - we are going to look back and realize all that we have given up in the way of freedom for government promises that the government can never keep.

We must reject the idea that every time a law is broke, society is guilty rather then the lawbreaker.

---R.R.

Guns are not the problem. Guns, if you like them or not, are a natural right given to us by the Constitution.

Gun restrictions, more laws, more regulations WILL NOT STOP gun violence. Do you really think that a criminal, or a deranged evil human being, is thinking about the laws they are breaking when they are shooting people.

Sorry My President, you and your Liberal friends are using this tragic event as a catalyst to push your anti gun movement forward. ( for the record I do not own a single firearm )

shinelight -- God isn't being "removed" from anything. If you believe in God, s/he is there. No one can take that from you.

But this is a SECULAR country, not a theocracy and YOUR God isn't necessarily the same God of all who live here. By not having religion in the public arena you and your religion are PROTECTED. No one can tell you how to believe and how not to believe. We all have that right.

Also another point, morality is not limited to religious people ... I know many atheists and agnostics who are much more giving, loving and live more "upright" lives than some religious people I also know.

Does Obama also demand that someone zip up his pants in the morning?

More children have been killed this year from parents not buckling them while driving. So how is Obama going to adress that issue? We tend to have knee jerk reactions when it is a single event that nobody could have prevented, but there is no reaction to thousands of events that could have been prevented.

I have four children and I have cried many times thinking of these little babies that were slaughtered in Conneticut. But I also see the daily slaughter of little babies because parents refuse to take one simple step like buckling the kid in a car.

What task force is Obama going to create to address the issue of huindreds of children dying on our roads each year because of the stupidity of parents?? I just scooped another dead one up yesterday, and her parents didn't get the notariety that the shooter in Conn. got, yet it is still one little innocent one who went through a windshield and will be buried before Christmas, just like the little ones in Conn., I want answers Obama!!

coravens - how many law abiding citizens have assault rifles with 30 round clips? Why do they need them? What and where do you recommend we start to address this type problem? Or do you believe there is a problem? Yes, mental health is an issue, but if the killer in Newtown did not have an assault rifle the extent of this tragedy would have been mitigated. Not prevented but mitigated. Assault rifle ban for the general public is a step in the right direction. The only ones who should have assault rifles are the military, police and law enforcement. Again, where would you start to solve this issue?

The main point those who advocate gun-control are missing is that calls for bans on "assault" rifles are not based upon any realistic assessment of their relative danger when compared to almost any other gun on the market. The term "high-powered" in combination with "assault" rifle is thrown around a lot, but it is just more gratuitous fear mongering, irrational nonsense from those who seemingly know nothing about guns. Relative to a 7mm Rem Mag or a .300 Win Mag, (both VERY common rifles) an "assault" rifle isn't high-powered at all. The fact that assault rifles are semi-automatic is mentioned as a reason for banning them, but that too is irrational when you consider all the other semi-automatic guns out there not dubbed "assault" rifles. The fact is that there is an irrational fear of this type of gun based simply upon the looks of the gun and the name of the gun.

The calls for a ban on assault rifles are based upon emotion, not logic. Arbitrarily singling out a certain type of gun to ban is a knee-jerk irrational response to a tragedy which does nothing to prevent future tragedies and punishes and restricts the constitutional rights of millions of law-abiding citizens.

"You people against some type of immediate resolution to some form of gun/ammunition control are morons!!"

Because that would have stopped this tragedy from happening?

No - they you are using the deaths of 20 children pushing a political agenda, which is sickening.

(FYI - if you are so worried about school shootings and the deaths of the children, check out how many die of abortions and I am pro-choice)

!

!Paul Harvey on Guns
Are you considering backing gun control laws? Do you think that because you may not own a gun, the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment don't matter?
CONSIDER:
In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From
1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
That places total victims who lost their lives because of gun control at approximately 56 million in the last century. Since we should learn from the mistakes of history, the next time someone talks in favor of gun control, find out which group of citizens they wish to have exterminated.

• © 2012 Microsoft
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• Developers

Crazies will find a way to hurt people. This morning at a Tacoma, WA high school police found a homemade explosive device. Luckily it did not detonate and no one was hurt. I suppose the NRA will get the blame for this to.

It doesn't matter what is done, nothing will change. People will kill when they want too and by any means available.

In the wake of last week's shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., the president announced a new initiative that would include members of his cabinet and outside organizations to generate proposals to rein in gun violence.

Knee jerk Stalinism at it's finest. Now, I would never have guessed THAT coming this Administration, you folks???

/sarc off.

G2020

Exactly how many laws are in the pipe line to help protect our schools? Where is the funding to provide security for our schools? Guns and lunatics have been around for a long time. School security probably cost too much, and has not improved. It is easier for politicians to target gun control, because it is politics, it does nothing to protect our children from the nutcases.

EXACTLY! We have all this money to bail out banks, auto industries, other countries etc. We need to STOP doing that and put our money back into the gutted mental health system.

more gun control won't make a difference, the shooter broke many laws that are already in place. Stealing is illegal, breaking and entering is illegal, MURDER is illegal.

As a mother and an ex-teacher my heart breaks for the victims, so much so that my husband unplugged the TV so I'd stop watching. BUT also as a mother and teacher I can only think if just ONE person in that school was armed we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

I also find it amusing that our elected officials are afforded the privilege of having armed guards, why aren't one of our more precious resources? Our children. Our school district has 2+ armed police officers per school that patrol the grounds while school is in session, we have another school district that has armed teachers since 2005 without incident (to be fair their schools are more then 30 minutes from the nearest police)

Ok 911 those damn airplanes take them away. alcahol has killed more people than anything take that away, This guy is working hard at this why doesnt he put this much effort into making jobs getting our economy back . What happened was unthinkable . Maybe he should take those entitlements and put it towards a mental health program . It will help people and create jobs.

jpintar

coravens - how many law abiding citizens have assault rifles with 30 round clips?

Why are you concerned about what type of magazines law-abiding citizens use?

Are 30-round magazines more deadly in the hands of law-abiding citizens?

Can't a criminal do as much damage with two 15-round magazines?

Can we maybe wait to see what the proposals are before we start calling people names, throwing up our hands in despair, and making threats?

For God's sake, a kindergarten just got shot up, and 20 little kids are being buried. Don't you think we ought to examine some options for preventing it from happening again?

Sparky = "One day - far after it is too late - we are going to look back and realize all that we have given up in the way of freedom for government promises that the government can never keep."

Very true. I would add, one day people will realize that giving away others freedoms to make themselves feel better, left them with no freedoms.

Wow. Biden the buffoon is in charge? I feel safer already. NOT.

Also, @all the people bringing up "godlessness" in our society, you need to look at the actual history of your precious religions more carefully. "God fearing" societies have been the most violent in the history of humankind, particularly those that follow the Abrahamic religions people seem to hold as the ultimate example of following a spiritual life. If there is any "spiritual" problem in our society, is being the descendants of followers of religions that used to burn people alive then pretend they're the paragons of moral virtue.

Regulate and ban all you think you need to. When the criminals want one they will get it. And, by the way, congratulations. The cartels needed a new avenue of revenue as it looks as though pot might be gaining ground as a legal form of recreation in the US.

You have just given them illegal gun and ammunition's sales, a much more violent product.

Oh, you can put chips in the guns so they can be tracked when they are resold by individuals, too. But if I owned one and wanted to make a private sale to another individual, I'd just call the police and report it stolen.

And on the mental health issue, as most of the people committing these atrocious crimes left trails of their problems all the way back to school days, it seems competent mental health professionals should be in the high schools.... and they should N.O.T! be under the influence or subjugation of the local or state school boards.

Okay, so it looks like the republican party is here to stay. I thought they were a party on the way out but now the gun vote is locked for them.

Not a fight worth fighting. Unwinnable and dividing.

@edgarw, the same thing I said to shinelight applies to you. Deny a fact all you want - doesn't make it false. If America wasn't secular, then your numbers would be 100% and 100%, respectively.

PHE "For God's sake, a kindergarten just got shot up, and 20 little kids are being buried. Don't you think we ought to examine some options for preventing it from happening again?"

Do you think more gun control is going to stop this from happening? Unless of course you are suggesting that the 300 million plus guns be confiscated from the citizens?

We have tons of laws banning stuff, anybody care to point out one of them that have actually worked?

jpintar - what happened to these children was tragic, but a handgun with a pocket full of bullets would have done the same thing. this crazy person was not stopped by anyone - he was in a "gun free zone" and shot as many as he wanted before shooting himself.

Do I think there is a problem? Yes, of course I do. But it is going to take smarter people than me to figure it out. Just last night I was watching an episode of Panic-911 where an intruder came into a woman's home. Her husband had passed away and she lived alone. She called 911 and the police were on their way, but the crazy man intruder broke the glass window in her bedroom and was coming into the house before the police could get there, and the woman shot and killed him - rightfully so. If she did not have a gun - any gun - this man would have killed her long before law enforcement arrived.

"But he stressed that those were only components of a broader effort to address violence."

Guess nobody here read that part. We're all too busy calling each other morons and retards and wackos and Nazis and arguing about whose rights are more important than others and insulting the President and Vice-President of our country and ridiculing each other's knowledge of everything from the constitution to what constitutes an automatic vs. a semi-automatic weapon and making a national tragedy about nothing more than our daily juvenile political bickering.

We obviously don't have time to actually BE the components of a broader effort to address violence.....

Maybe they should institute mental patient registration like they do for sex offenders so you know who they are and where they're at as opposed to registering 300 million guns.

By order of the Grand Poobah no more violence.

CoRavens, you can't argue with Australia's results. They haven't had a mass shooting since they enacted their gun control measures, and gun crime went down 59%

Okay, now tell us about their justice system. How do they handle capital crimes? How long on appeals? How many? Any capital punishment? How long in for capital and felony crimes? Do they make it worth while to go ahead and kill the witnesses?

CJH31 - Our nation's founding fathers were strongly influenced by the Bible in their views of a rightly functioning government and society. Not all of them were professed Christians, for sure. Some were Deists. Even so, they were Deists with a Biblical reference point. Some were not moral themselves, but still knew what was right (sound familiar). Much of their wisdom in shaping our country's future came from their acute awareness of the wrong use of state power in England. They understood the concept that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. They also admitted that their new republic would fail if its citizenry ever departed from being ruled from within by the truths of God. Don't be fooled by the arguments of those who wish to push the God of the Bible out of our land. While we have always been a land of imperfect people, we have, in our past underpinnings, been humble enough to rightly recognize the One who is without blame and who is our answer.

shinelightAs a Christian, I sadly agree that the Church has not been doing its job in our society.

You are LIDDING, right? Saw a t shirt the other day. It said:

GOD, why do you let so much violence in our schools - a concerned student

Dear concerned student, I AM NOT ALLOWED IN SCHOOL ANY LONGER.

Well, since we seem to not want God in our schools, then we MUST allow the teachers in our schools PROTECT THEMSELVES. Same goes for ANY OTHER NO GUN ZONE. Since police are only crime investigators (have not heard about a cop PREVENTING a crime in a LONG time) then we MUST be allowed to protect ourselves with whatever means we have at our disposal.

Doesn't that make sense to anyone? Criminals don't want to get shot. They will ALWAYS choose a location where they feel much more secure.

Sure looks like you republicans would eventually get a clue. Being polarized to such a degree of stupidity and ignorance is hard to admit I guess.

In the meantime, sure is satisfying constantly shoving everything down your unhonorable throats. Pathetic losers republicans are. Simply pathetic. LOL!

Spoken like a true d0uchebag, um, I mean Democrat. Speaking of "ignorance", you've mastered that (not to mention hypocrisy). Pathetic git.

FZknew (pathetic shill)

Get some new talking points. Bush is gone, it is Obama's time now. He is a failure as a leader except to the minority of Americans who would vote for him regardless of his failures.

Roger - What would I like Obama to do?? How about put togetjer a budget for the country. But he is too busy sticking his nose into business that I don't feel the President of the United States of America should spend a lot of time on. He does this sort of thing just to make idiots feel that hecares about them. Well whoopy friggen deal, he cares. Trouble is that he only cares about people who he thinks agree with him. I think he is a pathetic leader. Where was his caring attitude with our border patrol agent that was killed by a weapon supplied by his administration? Where was his concern for our foreign diplomat and 3 other Americans killed under his watch? And don't forget his caring attitude and phone call to some sl*t who wants him to buy her birth control pills (something a President of the United States should really be spending his time on)

You don't like my comments, tough sh*t. I don't like the attitude of the far left these days. Taking advantage of a terrible senseless act by a crazy idiot to further their agenda. Pathetic.

mguy478 - What are you talkling about? Did I ever say I thought Obama was going to take away all guns? NO I didn't, you pathetic gambler. With your stupid thinking you better stay away from Vegas. I heard it all now. The far left is going wackier every day.

captcrash - a "30 round clip" is another way of saying 30 round magazine. A round is a bullet, a clip and/or magazine is a place where bullets are strored. The clip/magazine is then place in a gun, usually an automatic or semi-automatic. An "automatic" weapon is one that shoots (or fires) while the trigger is depressed. A semi-automatic is a weapon that fires (or shoots) a bullet with each pull (depression) of the trigger. Now that said, I ask you. What is your answer to solve this problem? Or do you believe there is a problem with people having access to guns and shooting innocents??

come on, really?

Okay, so it looks like the republican party is here to stay. I thought they were a party on the way out but now the gun vote is locked for them.

Not a fight worth fighting. Unwinnable and dividing.

Excellent point. Obama is seriously jeopardizing the elections in 2014 and 2016 with this crap.

Idaho-Steven

GOD, why do you let so much violence in our schools - a concerned student

Dear concerned student, I AM NOT ALLOWED IN SCHOOL ANY LONGER.

So what you are saying is that your "god" is insecure being that "allows" certain things like this to happen out of spite?

Wow, I would think a being capable of creating a universe would have a little bit more self-esteem... but apparently he is an angry, emotionally charged teenager who likes to "get back" at people who ignore him.

What a great thing to worship.

FZknew

How about this: a "well regulated militia" has not only the owrd "militia" but teh phrase "well regulated" in it. Your kind makes me wnat to puke all over your shoes. Regulate this dude!

There is nothing in our country that is currently more heavily regulated than firearms. NOTHING. So lets add more worthless regulation so sheeple like you can feel better until the next tragedy.

and BTW, last deacde gun homicide in our country was at a 40 year low and it continues to drop.

God isn't being "removed" from anything. If you believe in God, s/he is there. No one can take that from you.

But this is a SECULAR country

You are absolutely right about that Beth, but also know that the laws of this country were based on religious practice and belief. "Thou shalt not kill", doesn't mean anything in some countries, where killing is just a way of protecting honor. "Thou shalt not commit adultry", used to have some value in this country, but because the secular has overriden the religous morality of the issue, America has made adultry a daily entertainment item on any tv channel, and families, parenthood, and responsibility to our children, has been thrown out for sexual gratification. If you want to know the true reason for the shooting in Conneticut, look at the family first and see if it was a place where values and morality were taught and exemplified by the parents.

I am a Christian and agree that we should keep religion and government separate, but there are some unavoidable areas where the two must come together, and when doing so must be respectful of the rights of ALL. We should not throw away the value religion brings to a civilized society. Were we better as a country when we didn't portray murder and sex on TV, or are we better as a society now because we have the right to portray those images daily?

I would like to know how many people who commit gun violence have a criminal history. I believe there is one issue being overlooked when it comes to gun violence. That is severe punishment for people when they commit a crime, even for young offenders. Too often we offer probation, probation. probation, or label them with some disorder that excuses them from their own responsibility.

mguy-478

So you Republicans think Obama is going to take away all your guns? You think there will be a complete ban?

Ok... put your money where your mouth is. I've got $10,000 here that says there will NOT be a complete ban on all guns.

You know what, I agree with you, to a point. No, they will not take away ALL guns.... initially. They will do it step by step, like slowly raising the heat on a frog in a pot. If they did it ANY other way the strong American spirit would REVOLT. They do not want that. They plan on a bloodless coup. Your bet is a sham.

You gotta know there is something up their sleeve if CHINA is pushing the issue. They want it FAST too. Not much of an endorsement there.

To those of you who are so anti-religion, it seems to me that in light of this horrible crime, teaching kids that "Thou shalt not kill" is not such a bad idea. It's at least as effective as passing even more useless, futile gun control laws......you know, the ones that murderers and other criminals ignore!

You know it is really sad? All of this talk about stricter gun laws is taking away from the fact that a really bad man killed a lot of innocent children. It is almost like the person who actually did this is not getting the blame. The guns are getting the blame, and the gun owners are getting the blame. Lets refocus that blame in the right direction - at the shooter.

Beth-440386

shinelight -- God isn't being "removed" from anything. If you believe in God, s/he is there. No one can take that from you.

But this is a SECULAR country,

Beth is NOT absolutely right about that.

This country only ACTS like a secular country. EVERY poll that comes out shows that the VAST majority of people that live here associate themselves with one form of Christianity or another. Just because they don't ACT that way (we are human, remember) does not mean that they do not have some basis of belief in their hearts somewhere. the butthead tried that one too. I just don't know where you all get that from.

mguy-478

So you Republicans think Obama is going to take away all your guns? You think there will be a complete ban?

Ok... put your money where your mouth is.

I scrolled up through the list and didn't see a single comment suggesting Obama wants to take away all guns. So do you always just make @!$%# up to fit your preconceived rants?

If god is being thrown out, he is not much of a god.

The world could do without so many violent irrelevant movies and morning TV shows with mom and preschoolers watching where every other word is F-beeee-UC-eeeep-K and people slugging it out and ripping off each others clothes at the sound of a bell. We've made ourselves quite a society of foul-mouthed teens and young adults. It makes a person's skin crawl whenever you go out into public and hear how disrespectful and angry the youth are today to everyone and everything around them! It's no wonder we see instances like this where they are shooting each other, their families and children at school!

Obama is using this tragedy to push his own warped agenda. Guns are not the problem, it is the lack of enforcement of existing laws by the federal government and the lack of a good mental health system and ways to appropriately deal with people who have mental problems. There is no national database to check for people who have mental health issues so it is relatively easy for them to buy guns. This is because the vaunted health information privacy laws as interpreted by the federal courts have made establishing any kind of registry of those with mental health problems impossible. They can set one up for sex offenders, but not for people with mental problems. And then you have the fact that people with mental problems can not be detained in any way unless they represent a danger to themselves or others. Unfortunately, the courts have made it almost impossible to have someone declared a danger until after they have already committed a violent act.

As for existing gun laws, this administration has been one of the most lax in enforcing the laws we already have. This has been part of the plan. Do not enforce the laws we have aggressively so that they can point to a growing gun problems and sucker people into going along with passing the even more restrictive laws they want. Then the real enforcement will finally begin. There are already laws that restrict the sale of high capacity magazines, the problem is that they are rarely enforced. I have no problem with reinstating the ban on assault weapons. There is really no reason for these types of weapons to be in private hands. They have no legitimate purpose for a private citizen. My question is why Obama has not pushed for this sooner. It is because he knew that with that done, he would have less leverage to get the additional restrictions he wants. Now he will attach those additional restrictions to the same law to reinstate the assault weapons ban as a way to get them through because he figures even the republicans will not vote against a law that includes the assault weapons ban because of the outrage he can generate if they do. Instead of passing an individual, sensible measure, he will try and lump in many additional measures that are not needed and get the whole package through.

There also needs to be more enforcement actions taken against irresponsible gun owners who fail to properly safeguard their weapons. This latest tragedy in CT is a prime example. Why has the mother of the shooter not been charged with anything. She failed to properly secure her weapons, allowing her mentally ill son to gain access to them. The shooter was taking strong psychiatric medication, so she knew full well that her son had problems and should not have access to weapons. Her negligence was a direct contributor to this tragedy, yet no one is even talking about charging her with anything. We do not need more gun laws, other than the reinstatement of the assault weapons ban. What we need is better enforcement of current laws and to hold irresponsible gun owner responsible when their weapons are used to commit crimes because they failed to properly control access to those weapons.

Bruce Hershimburger

Bring God back to schools and government? Seriously? More people have been murdered throughout history in the name of some God or another. Religion as a whole is violent and exclusionary and the bane of a civilized society.

Bruce-Pull your head out of your buns man, we don't live in the middle east or any other state with mass religious violence. Make a valid argument. I'm sick of reading all of these one liners from people who happened to catch a glimpse of CNN. Put some logic into your posts.

C'mon Man!

Regulate and ban all you think you need to. When the criminals want one they will get it. And, by the way, congratulations. The cartels needed a new avenue of revenue as it looks as though pot might be gaining ground as a legal form of recreation in the US.

Newsflash, the cartels get many of their guns FROM AMERICA!! I don't believe they get "90%" of them like you see bantered about sometimes, that statistic is BS, but they certainly get plenty from us.

Or what did you think "Fast and Furious" (started by Bush, continued by Obama) was all about?!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_of_firearms_into_Mexico

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/12/AR2010121202663.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/Latin-America-Monitor/2011/0708/Mexican-cartel-leader-claims-gang-buys-all-its-guns-in-US

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-14/us/mexico.guns_1_mexican-drug-drug-cartels-drug-gangs?_s=PM:US

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/04/27/mexico-seized-nearly-70000-guns-from-us-in-last-five-years/

...I got more...

you can't argue with Australia's results. They haven't had a mass shooting since they enacted their gun control measures, and gun crime went down 59%.

Yeah, but Australia also takes care of their mentally ill, we do not!!

jpintar

The shooter at Virginia Tech didn't use an assault rifle and killed over 30 people. You ban high capacity mags and a shooter will just show up with more magazines. Your logic is extremely flawed.

You know what, I agree with you, to a point. No, they will not take away ALL guns.... initially. They will do it step by step, like slowly raising the heat on a frog in a pot. If they did it ANY other way the strong American spirit would REVOLT. They do not want that. They plan on a bloodless coup. Your bet is a sham.

Nothing prevents "them" from taking over right now, and nothing prevents us from having a revolution without guns. Having a gun is a sure way of getting shot. This is not theory. Examine the history of the revolution in India - Gandhi won, and won against a world empire, without a gun. Before that, many armed revolts were brutally suppressed. It was the LACK of guns that allowed him to win. We have also seen it in more recent times. Egyptians have now got rid of self-declared tyrants TWICE without guns.

Having a gun does not mean that your revolution will win, and not having a gun does not mean that your revolution will fail. There are plenty of counter-examples.

The same exam should be given to VOTE..................

The exploitation of the deaths of innocents, the trauma of the survivors, the grief of the families, and the horror of the nation for ratings and profits by these mega-corporations has gone on for too long.

It is time for a rational discussion of reasonable media controls.

Do it for the children.

For hours on end, alone in his windowless basement den, Adam Lanza studied photos of guns and obliterated virtual victims in violent video games — until the virtual became a reality.

The unhinged Sandy Hook Elementary School gunman was enthralled by blood-splattering, shoot-’em-up electronic games, which he played in the basement of his mother’s spacious $1.6 million home in Newtown, Conn., according to a person familiar with the layout.

Lanza, 20, especially liked “Call of Duty” — a wartime role-playing game where participants use high-powered assault rifles, machine guns and other weapons to slaughter scores of people, according to a published report.

Adam Lanza spent hours playing violent video games, such as “Call of Duty,” in the basement of the home where he shot mom Nancy before his rampage.

And the basement walls were covered with military- and weaponry-themed posters, said one of the home’s few visitors.

But let's not talk about the violent video games that young people with undeveloped brains play for hours on end all through their developmental stages of life, who actually go into the "real" world telling everyone to call them by their avatar names they use in the digital ones, who talk computer game code, who begin to see humans, and themselves, as blips on a screen, who, when "taken out" can be brought back to life with a "reset" button.

Nothing is real to them, not the people, not themselves, nor the guns, especially to an Autistic person like Adam. And by the way, Autistic people are NOT normally violent like this.

Australia also had a huge spike in homicides and violent crime not related to firearms after the ban too. Violent crime is still high today, but you won't see that reported.

Hey Mr. Biden, while you're under the bus you just got thrown off, please say 'hi' to everyone else Obama blames for failure......HA HA...what a joke, some idiot in China just killed 22 poor children WITH A KNIFE.

Get a clue......

our nation, once founded upon Judeo-Christian principles.

Is that why seven of the ten commandments directly violates The Constitution?

Comrade Obama has demanded that we pass a useless law that has never been proven to work, to restrict the rights of more Americans, so spineless liberals have falsely feel more safe.

You have to use every tragedy that you can to pass your agenda. Pathetic.

And he wants it in a month so statistics and reason dont win out over fear and emotion.

What exactly is a "30 round clip"? Your ignorance astounds me.... There is no such thing as a "30 round clip"...

Funny - when you google the term, their servers seem to have no problem with the term "30 round clip". I understand that you were hoping that they would use the verbiage "magazine", but I personally would contend that "clip" suffices for a base understanding, and labeling someone as ignorant for such a thing is really rather childish.

Okay, so it looks like the republican party is here to stay. I thought they were a party on the way out but now the gun vote is locked for them.

Not a fight worth fighting. Unwinnable and dividing.

It's going to get less and less unwinnable as the killings continue. Do you really think that this is the last mass murder of Americans? Just since the school shooting more have been killed as happened on that day.

Neil66767

I would like to know how many people who commit gun violence have a criminal history. I believe there is one issue being overlooked when it comes to gun violence. That is severe punishment for people when they commit a crime, even for young offenders. Too often we offer probation, probation. probation, or label them with some disorder that excuses them from their own responsibility.

That is, unles they are caught with Pot, then we jail them right next to the robbers and killers such that the potheads soon become robbers and killers. Add to this the "for profit prison system" and you have a recipe for keeping certain individuals from participating in society for the rest of their lives. Does anyone not see that the current rates of incarceration for petty crimes and for profit prisons may be EXACERBATING the lawlessness of America?

EXACTLY! We have all this money to bail out banks, auto industries, other countries etc. We need to STOP doing that and put our money back into the gutted mental health system.

1st sgt wife - I'm glad to see that you are for armed officers patrolling our schools. I can agree to that as they are trained, armed and ready for those type of situations. I draw the line when people clamor for concealed weapons in schools with teachers. Only could call for the worst for some untrained, civilian packing heat around our kids.

I'm also glad to see you agree that we need to help restore our mental health system. Not a charge or a demand just a request - Think about who you are voting for the next go around. Not only on the national level, but at the state level. In my State Texas, a majority of the legislature are R's and they have used every tactic, every trick and every tool throughout the past bienenum sessions to cut mental health funding.

Shinelight is so right!

And the rest of the Americans are "...blinded by the god of this world!"

The US government doesn't even take care of mental disorders for most of it's military members when they return them to civilian life and active duty, reserve and veteran citizens in the USA make up less than 1% of our population, so how can you expect them to take care of the 30% or so of the rest of Americans who may be suffering from mental problems? Sarcasm here folks, but even so, it is also accurate!

#1.97, while you may have s point in your rant, I would point out that the mother is DEAD, I doubt charging her with a crime will solve that! She may have been, probably was, contributing to her son's actions by her inaction, but my first statement hold true; she is already dead. (why does the old Monty Python skit come to mind here?)

BillyBob-7141987 That same pesky Constitution that protects your "right" to have guns is the same Constitution that protects your freedom FROM religion. The Founding Fathers didn't want another Church of England-style country, where there was no freedom to practice your religion as YOU see fit. Keep that in mind the next time you want to complain about God being driven out of everything. That's YOUR God, not everyone's God.

Well I am not exactly sure what you're really trying to say here. You try to mention the 1st Amendment, but take it completely out of context or don't really know what the words are. The exact context is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

There is nothing in the constitution that states anything about your freedom "from" religion. Congress cannot make a law "establishing" a church such as the Church of England, nor can they "prohibit" your "free exercise" of it. So in other words, if you chose to not worship God or chose to worship God, that is your choice, but Congress cannot "prohibit" you from doing so. By taking Religion out of the schools, they did "prohibit" the free exercise of religion.

Little history on our Founding Fathers, specifically Thomas Jefferson & James Madison. You are aware that Thomas Jefferson held Religious services in the House of Representatives while he served as President and James Madison continued the tradition. In fact Religious services were held in the Capital building until 1868. All denominations established at the time were represented. Courts & People did not stop the practice.

The Constitution, various letters written by the founding fathers and actions such as Jefferson & Madison, clearly indicate that they wanted to make sure people had their freedom to practice "anywhere" they chose to do so. And those that chose not to do so need not participate and Congress could make no law forbidding the choice of either.

For the Right to bear arms, that came about to ensure that if the Government chose to become something other than a Republic, then the citizens would have maintained their arms and be able through establishment of Militia's (individual citizens) to remove the Government. There is also a reason they ensured that the Government Military could take no action with the boarders of the US. This country is the "people's" country, not the government. And they insured that people could protect themselves from a corrupt government.

Some need to really be careful about turning over their rights and benefits to the Government. Not to mention deny their fellow citizens those rights & benefits placed in our Constitution. Once you do, its impossible to get back and you make it far easier for this country to become a dictatorship.

screminmimi

Have you ever actually played a video game? No well balanced person plays call of duty, then has the urge to go out and slaughter people. Call of duty is mild in violence compared to some of the other games on the market. And if the issue is kids playing them all these games who is buying them for them? Last I checked all of these games are rated M 17+. Blame mom and dad.

Hey Mr. Biden, while you're under the bus you just got thrown off, please say 'hi' to everyone else Obama blames for failure......HA HA...what a joke, some idiot in China just killed 22 poor children WITH A KNIFE.

Get a clue......

Uh... you should check your facts...

22 children were slashed with a knife, NONE DIED.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html

mguy478 - You are one pathetic coward liberal. Do you think any liberals own guns? You know YOUR PARTY.

April 4, 2012 - 7 dead, 3 hurt when a gunman opens fire at a CHRISTIAN University, located in Oakland California.

Look at that, a school that ALLOWS your precious God to be present also suffered a shooting rampage.

Apparently the presence of some imaginary being has no impact on whether or not a shooting will occur. Perhaps you christians should look for a different explanation on why this happened.

we all have a vested interest in reducing homicide by gun. after all, it could have been my kids or yours. what we should not do is make it worse! it is counter-intuitive, but the australian experience is undeniable, gun homicides soared after guns were banned. the district of columbia has the most restrictive gun laws and by far the highest gun related homicide rate

Actually, you can get the numbers here: http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html ; this is the Australian Institute of Criminology.

There was sharp decline in gun murders immediately after the ban. So your information is just incorrect. The ban made things better for a while; it did go up a little bit later, but it then started declining and is now lower than immediately after the ban.

We also have our own examples, we don't need to look to Australia. The more guns your state has, the more likely you are to get shot. Having a gun in the home means that you are more likely to be shot by that gun than by a robber.

Expecting that a gun will deter a thief or rapist is a very rational point of view. Are thieves or rapists known for their clear and rational thinking?

screminmimi:

I noticed that you have no rebuttal to the stats on Australia's gun control measures. You changed the subject to other aspects of their laws.

Your other questions are irrelevant with regards to preventing/reducing gun crime and mass shootings. They had 11 mass shootings in the years leading up to 1996, then the really big one, gun control measures, and NOT ONE MASS SHOOTING SINCE.

You cannot ban all guns and you cannot eliminate gun crime entirely. But to do nothing and allow the kinds of weapons and large clips of ammo to float around our society is asking for more mass shootings to happen.

Guns are made to kill people/animals. There needs to be better controls on them. Nobody is saying to ban all guns. Those in favour of gun control are saying that certain types of weapons and amounts of ammo aren't necessary for the general public. They are saying training, licensing, background checks, mental evaluations, and removal of loopholes are necessary to prevent these kinds of tragedies.

Has anybody noticed that these mass shootings are occurring with legally purchased weapons or weapons purchased through loopholes?

Yes, criminals, if they want a gun, can get a gun, but no mafia member, gang member or general criminal ever walked into a school and shot little kids.

so obama wants laws by jan. how many days will the politicians be working before the deadline? this will cause hasty and irresponsible thinking. they say ban the assault weapons so what is the definition of assault weapons? is it if it looks like a military weapon or is it a fully auto weapon? weapons are not to blame but the people that use them in a way not intended. the size of caliber would not work since many murders are commited with a 22. this was just a very bad tragedy and nothing else so get off the wagon to make someone or something else responsible.

@mb-757763

CoRavens, you can't argue with Australia's results. They haven't had a mass shooting since they enacted their gun control measures, and gun crime went down 59%.

Got some sources to back up that claim because what I've found contradicts it.

"It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner"- http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

By the way, I know nothing of Adam or Newton, but I'm guessing that he ended up at the Newton school because, with his disorder and isolation he was kept in, that school was just the one place he had a cohesive memory of where to go, how to get there, and that had a number of individuals as targets, like his video game.

Sorry to disagree with you anti-gun fanatics, but it wasn't the guns as much as the video game he was enthralled with. I do agree he should not have had access to the guns. That much is a given and no one with a brain can argue the point. But he should not have had access to the video game either.

Now, show me how access to violent video games can be restricted from mentally challenged and young developing minds, and I'm on board. But the liberals don't want to go there, and I'll bet the conservatives don't either.

When I purchased a semi-automatic pistol several years ago I was required to sign a document which, among other things, asked if I had a criminal record. It occurred to me that if I DID have a criminal record and wanted the gun anyway I would simply reply "NO" in the box provided. When I mentioned this to the gunshop owner he just shook his head and replied sadly: "I know; It's crazy."

I paid for the gun and left the store with it... I had expected a waiting period while my background was cleared. There really SHOULD be a waiting period. No legitimate gun owner -- or even the NRA -- could possibly object to that.

Granted that this -- waiting period -- would not have prevented the most recent tragedy. That would have required some more serious attention to our nations need for what I shall call 'Social Maintenance' inside areas which would presently be considered as personal and private. The boy -- and his family -- should have been in counseling. Guns should not have been allowed in the home where he resided.

Individuals who encourage violence -- by example or in any other fashion -- should never be given free voice in our nation no matter what their medium of communication.

I just hope that the Vice-President realizes that this issue is no laughing matter!

DrowningGrover

22 children were slashed with a knife, NONE DIED.

Oh, what a relief, I'm sure that makes things so so much better......again...get a clue.

JH

I'm the one willing to put my money where my mouth is... YOU are the COWARD who makes claims, but tucks your tail between your legs when it's time to back them up.

I know liberals own guns, and I know that a complete gun ban will NEVER happen.

Yet COWARDS like YOU continue to claim it will. So put your money where your mouth is. Or are you too scared? Ya... that's what I thought.

Run away, little boy. Make your big, tough, Republican comment... then run away when you are challenged to back it up. Go ahead... prove you are not a complete COWARD. Put your money where your pathetic mouth is.

It is really simple, and we will find out who is right. One of us will be correct, and one will be wrong. So let's do it, big man. Come on. Prove you are not the COWARD I know you to be.

Some need to really be careful about turning over their rights and benefits to the Government. Not to mention deny their fellow citizens those rights & benefits placed in our Constitution. Once you do, its impossible to get back and you make it far easier for this country to become a dictatorship.

Guns do not enter into the discussion here. Having a gun does not increase my security against the government. The US military so vastly outclasses any gun that I can buy that there's no security in having a gun against my government.

This discussion about security and government management has no bearing on a gun discussion. It does belong in a discussion about the PATRIOT act, about extraordinary renditions about extra-judicial government killings of Americans. How do you feel about those? Did you object to the Iraq war? Did you object to the PATRIOT act? If so, then great - you proved your real patriotism as a concerned citizen.

will address mental health services and violence in popular culture.

Oh Give me a break - that's right out of the gun industry's playbook. Likely good it will do = ZILCH, wasted time=MUCHO!

• Concrete Measures = Ban high-capacity magazines and assault weapons!!!!

Take your meds mguy-478.

Tom - Plymouth-3672298

We have tons of laws banning stuff, anybody care to point out one of them that have actually worked?

i would LOVE to, but sadly I cannot.

Sorry to disagree with you anti-gun fanatics, but it wasn't the guns as much as the video game he was enthralled with.

So you are telling us that the bullets didn't come out of the gun he was carrying, they came out of the video game console? Or what?

screminmimi

Again, have you ever played any of these games? If not then please do the rest of us a favor and educate yourself before posting. It is a game. Read my previous post. Blame the parents.

DrowningGrover

22 children were slashed with a knife, NONE DIED.

Oh, what a relief, I'm sure that makes things so so much better......again...get a clue.

Uh... ACTUALLY IT DOES!! Ask the parents of those 22 children who were slashed if they'd trade places with the 20 (or 26) sets of parents who BURIED their children this week.

Are for you serious? Or just pissed I proved you wrong?

Bless the NRA for its comments. The NRA seems to be against killing 1st graders ... at least with guns, I think.

In about a week or so, they may come our four-square against it, but they need time to understand all the facts. I mean knowing who, what, when, where, how, the weapon of choice and the weather only scratches the surface. They need to know the political affilation of the shooter.

The NRA speaks for weapon manufacturers and for the well-paid officers of the NRA.

@Yello-Mark Dog:

Sure, making guns illegal is the "first step." But in order to get guns off the streets completely, you would need to give the government every right to search every home without a warrant. Is that "step 2?"

Liberals just want to do the easy thing and blame a means to an end rather than the actual problem (mental illness). Guns have been around for a LONG TIME and these shootings have been an occurrence of the past few decades.

"Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. Switzerland does not have a standing army, instead opting for a peoples' militia for its national defense. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations; Switzerland thus has one of the highest militia gun ownership rates in the world."

"Switzerland's annual rate of homicide by any means per 100,000 population was 0.70.^[13] The annual rate of homicide by guns per 100,000 population was 0.52."

"United States also has a much higher rate of homicides by gun — 3.2 homicides by firearm per 100,000 people, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime Homicide Statistics."

Hmm, so that was interesting about Switzerland's citizens mostly armed and low homicide rate from guns. Something else must be brewing here in the good ole USA?

Gee, how about the fact that Switzerland seems to be a generally "happy country?"

Take at look at these fascinating facts about Switzerland, it might help us see why their crime rate is so low, but apparently most of them carry guns!! Cleared up a lot of issues for me after reading these facts about Switzerland. Maybe we can take some lessons from the Swiss.

Thanks physicianexecutive, for pointing out that dichotomy about the Swiss, packing heat, but apparently staying cool. :)

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/switzerland/

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-happiest-countries-in-the-world.html?page=all

Hey, Eugene, probably only need the conservatives homes as they are the only ones likely to hide their "stash" and lie about it, Scumbags!

justoneguy

What's wrong? Embarrassed that Republicans like you will make claims, but don't have the convictions to stick to them?

All I want is a simple bet... a wager... that will prove, once and for all, who is right and who is wrong. The money is simply a way to see which Republicans are serious about their claims.

So, either every single Republican that screams about a "gun ban" is a LIAR... or they have no convictions in what they say.

Which is it? You tell me.

A ban on assault weapons won't solve the problem, but good luck with that.

Haggis

You like to use big bold letters and post the same thing over and over again, but why don't you actually focus on the real issue. Assault weapons are probably less than one percent of all gun crimes in this country. Handguns make up over two thirds of firearm crimes annually. The virginia tech shooter had two handguns with standard magazines and killed more people with less shots than the Newtown shooting did with an assault rifle. Pleas educate yourself on actual crime in this country before being obnoxious.

CoRavensFan

jpintar - what happened to these children was tragic, but a handgun with a pocket full of bullets would have done the same thing. this crazy person was not stopped by anyone - he was in a "gun free zone" and shot as many as he wanted before shooting himself.

I saw a post last night, and they blamed the people who put the sign "gun free zone" on all the schools, I agreed with him, we put up "gun free zone" and walked away thinking a sign would stop loonies from killing. Anyone ever think we need to have armed guards or even air marshall type people in our schools? A sign won't stop anyone.

The NRA has a very efficient system of getting their minority opinion broadcast. From this thread one would think that the vast majority of Americans are against any gun regulation, but

"54 percent of respondents backing new limits on gun rights, with 43 percent opposed. When asked about banning ammunition clips that contain more than 10 bullets, 59 percent supported the idea, while 38 percent opposed it. In addition, 52 percent backed a ban on semiautomatic handguns, with 44 percent in opposition"

The real picture is not that way. I applaud the NRA for its efficiency, it's impressive. They have their dedicated members swarm over every blog and web site and repeat the same old tired and discredit arguments over and over and the naive would think they are in the majority.

I saw a show last night about a bunch of half wits training with all kinds of guns to protect themselves from the upcoming invasion of zombies. There were a whole bunch of them tearing up the man shaped targets. They got into a discussion about whether you would shoot your children if they became zombies. I thought is was a satire. It wasn't. (Probably endorsed by the NRA!)

wow, just wow. So becuase the mother of the crazy person killed a huge number of kids and adults which is a horrible, horrible, thing, was not responsible to keep her guns in a safe and more importantly kept away from her not all there child, i get my right to bare arms and keep my faimly safe from other nut jobs taken away? I am assuming its so much easyer to push an agenda then to target the real cause of the problem. From all the news i have been watching since this terrible shooting, there has only been a few people who have touched on the real problem. getting pretty sick of seeing, VIDEO GAMES,GUNS,MOVIES did it so we should burn them to save the world!

@Byron Raum

Actually, you can get the numbers here: http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html ; this is the Australian Institute of Criminology.

There was sharp decline in gun murders immediately after the ban.

Ummmm, actually...According to your own source there was a slight decline the following year followed by a substantial INCREASE over the next several.

Gun murder in Australia is down since the ban today but it has decreased even more here in the US over the same time period.

Obama demands 'concrete proposals' on gun violence by January

When I read that this little insignificant ego-maniac demands something, all I can do is laugh. And the instrument he wants to use, Biden Bubba, is the biggest joke of all.

What you gonna do, Dumbama, if you don't get concrete proposals?? Stamp your feet and fret? Pathetic little sad excuse for a leader you are.

im just thinking weather we support god or not what did these children have against god if i had gods almighty powers i would have stopped the carnage being all powerfull all knowing with children it shouldnt matter who beleives in me or not just help them.

Hey Shinelight—

I appreciate your right to voice your opinion. Now you appreciate mine. Christianity, spirituality, the absence or presence of God or Christ-likeness has nothing to do with what happened last Friday in Newtown—a town, which by all accounts boasted multiple differing faiths per capita than most communities in CT. Nor did it have to do with punishment being meted out for lack of concern for “the 3,000,000 innocent unborn children whose lives we passively allow to be snuffed out every year by our abortion industry.” That BS only makes sense inside the holy-Huckabee bubble. Things are much different and pragmatic out here in the real world occupied by sane people.

I am certain that a mother, father or relative of one of the victims prayed for them at some point before they left for school last Friday morning. And, it’s a pretty damn good bet that a majority of those children prayed with mom and dad the night before going to bed (‘cause that’s how most of us parents roll in CT). So, before getting your “Jesus freak on” I would strongly urge you to peddle that pontifical, pious, self-righteous, doomsday BS elsewhere. I was raised a Christian appreciating earthly struggles, tribulations, second coming and heavenly reward at death. But no amount of indoctrination or belief can negate the fact that there are people among us who are simply f**ked in the head. Many of them remain in the shadows because of: (1) the stigma associated with mental health deficiencies; (2) failure to seek (or lack of) mental health support; and (3) failure to recognize or appreciate a mentally ill loved one’s potential for violent, tragic behavior against society. (Because, as the thinking goes, that behavior only manifests in certain families or classes of people).

Even the best Bible schools or mental health support won’t entirely eliminate the Newtown or Aurora-type incidents. But, there is no doubt that sensible gun policies go a long way towards curbing or limiting gun access and the potential for gun mayhem and assault in American society whether committed by the sane or the insane. So, until then, f**k you, f**k your God-fearing whip and f**k the Book of Revelations beast you rode in on!

So you are telling us that the bullets didn't come out of the gun he was carrying, they came out of the video game console? Or what?

He kills his Mother and the first thing he does is destroy his hard drive with the efficiency of a spy. Without easy access to weapons just think what this monster could have used. I suggest you give it some minimal thought and I think you can come up with an agent that could cause mass horrific death.

haggisbingo-2225582

• 
  
• Who cares!
• 
  
• Mental health is a Red Herring and pursuing that will accomplish NOTHING
• 
  
• BAN high-capacity magazines and assault weapons. Never a better time.

If I ever had to be afraid of a human it would be you.

Yellowdog-Mark D

EXACTLY! We have all this money to bail out banks, auto industries, other countries etc. We need to STOP doing that and put our money back into the gutted mental health system.

1st sgt wife - I'm glad to see that you are for armed officers patrolling our schools. I can agree to that as they are trained, armed and ready for those type of situations. I draw the line when people clamor for concealed weapons in schools with teachers. Only could call for the worst for some untrained, civilian packing heat around our kids.

I'm also glad to see you agree that we need to help restore our mental health system. Not a charge or a demand just a request - Think about who you are voting for the next go around. Not only on the national level, but at the state level. In my State Texas, a majority of the legislature are R's and they have used every tactic, every trick and every tool throughout the past bienenum sessions to cut mental health funding.

I also live in Texas. You do realize we have school districts here that are already armed (teachers) Willard county being one of them. I would never say we should force a teacher, but if they want to, let them.

Ferrosynthesis-3490482

"54 percent of respondents backing new limits on gun rights, with 43 percent opposed. When asked about banning ammunition clips that contain more than 10 bullets, 59 percent supported the idea, while 38 percent opposed it. In addition, 52 percent backed a ban on semiautomatic handguns, with 44 percent in opposition"

Since you're posting a quote how about a link to the source so we can all see just exactly who is doing this polling.

haggisbingo-2225582

will address mental health services and violence in popular culture.

Oh Give me a break - that's right out of the gun industry's playbook. Likely good it will do = ZILCH, wasted time=MUCHO!

• Concrete Measures = Ban high-capacity magazines and assault weapons!!!!

Hey Vladamir, no one cares about your Ho Chi Minh style propaganda, get some new material. We know you want a USSR style police state. Comrade Haggis

Backcountry

If you check out Slate's article on Australia's gun control measures they will tell you that all the studies/statistics provided that show the gun control didn't work were found to be massively flawed and/or outright fabricated. And they were all funded by anti-gun control groups.

Even if the rates of non-gun crime have risen and fallen over the years, the lack of any mass shootings can't be argued with. In addition, there was NO INCREASE in non-gun crime, showing that limited access to firearms did not push criminals to simply pick another weapon.

Aren't you gun lovers supposed to be moving into your doomsday caves.

You know; Real Solutions For Real People

I ran out of editing time:

we also have range owners who are giving free gun training and hand to hand combat to teachers who want it, their classes filled up within 40 minutes.

I'd like to change my request to a demand, I'd also like to know how Perry and the ilk keep getting re-elected but that's a pipe dream isn't it?

wow, just wow. So becuase the mother of the crazy person killed a huge number of kids and adults which is a horrible, horrible, thing, was not responsible to keep her guns in a safe and more importantly kept away from her not all there child, i get my right to bare arms and keep my faimly safe from other nut jobs taken away?

NO. And no one is asking for that anyway...

Shinelight,

Could have not said it any better. Yes, we are just about spiritually bankrupt as a nation and majority of His Church is lukewarm. First, as believers and followers of our Lord, Jesus Christ, we must individually repent, then our families followed by His Church. We do this by loving one another; putting others before ourselves. By this the world will know we belong to Him. Praying that Christians there will use this to honor God and bring glory to Jesus by loving those hurting from this senseless loss of life and proclaim the truth of God and gospel of Jesus Christ.

mb

Every UK report I've seen on crime that excluded the US shows the UK and Australia in the top 5 countries for violent crime.

Vision Storm,

Violence in culture has a lot to do with violent acts. Rome, one of the most feared and longest lasting empires had the Colosseum with its gladiators, and humans fighting animals to the death for public spectacle. The Mayans another great empire had human sacrifice for their religion. How about the Persian empire with their endless violent quest to conquer the known world or Sparta which lead a tough brutal existence as part of the Greek empire where children were taken from their parents at a very young age and taught to be vicious killers. That enough references for you? You are right that it isn't the whole story but wrong saying it has little or no effect. It is far more than violence in media, it is the attitude towards our children, it is the stressful and terribly fast pace of our society. Tell me just how a gun commits a murder or a massacre by itself? When have you ever heard a story of a gun tempting someone to use it to kill? I am afraid that most gun control advocates are blind to the real problem that stems back to our primordial ancestors. Our species is a predatory species. As far as we have come, there are still those among us that have stronger predatory instinct or weaker will power. It those individuals that end up as criminals or dictators. As a gun owner and 2nd amendment advocate I feel we need to make some changes, but restricting the sale of any type of weapon will not stop even one attack. There are many reasons that this statement is true. There are over 100 million guns in the US alone, we are not the only manufacturer of firearms and ammunition in the world, even if banned, not everyone would give up their gun, criminals will still find ways of obtaining guns and without a counter balance the scales of violence will tip the other way towards more violence instead of less. The countries you mentioned in your post still have problems with gun violence even though they have strict gun laws. English police officers "bobbies" never carried guns, but they do now! Israel has armed guards on school buses and in schools to prevent this type of violence. Even when there was an assault weapons ban in the US, it did nothing to mitigate the use of these weapons in violent crimes. I would back legislation that adds a waiting period for all long guns like we already have for handguns. I would back more in depth background checks and requirements that they be made on sales even at gun shows. All people that purchase a firearm should have to go through a firearms safety course and present proof before purchase that the course was satisfactorily completed. Legislation should also increase funding for mental health care, not just research, and establish hospitals where mental health patients can be treated long term. Finally parents really need to evaluate how they are raising their children. As with everything else on our lives, it starts in the home where our first introductions to society are made.

@mguy-478

Oh please, like we have not been hearing Repubs say this for the last 4 years. Every Repub like YOU has either stated it, or insinuated it.

I'm not a repub and I'm actually quite pleased that President Obama has allowed me to carry my sidearm concealed in National Parks. So it looks like you're just going to stick with making @!$%# up huh? I'm not surprised, your insane ranting and raving would make you seem like a lunatic if you didn't have some sort of drivel to back it up.

And just one posts above your own, Idaho-Steven believes that Obama will "slowly" ban all guns

You mean that post responding to YOU and your claim?? How many posts made that claim BEFORE you went on a rant blaming specific people for saying that?????

So come on, COWARD...

LOL! You won't even spell out swear words and you're calling me a coward? and BTW- avoiding a raving lunatic certainly wouldn't make someone a coward.

So what weapon would you libs be happy with a mass murdering madman using?

I've concluded that the best way to reduce the proliferation of firearms is to have the President super-glue his mouth shut. Between his election in Nov-2008 and his inauguration in Jan-2009, more assault style rifles, pistols, ammunition, and firearms of every type were purchased by Americans than in any single period since the ATF and FBI starting tracking such data. The SECOND largest purchase-period of firearms was after his reelection in 2012, and the third largest purchase, and the LARGEST in a single day, was the weekend after the Connecticut tragedy when he implied he would pursue Clinton era gun bans - which did NOTHING to reduce murder, mass murders, or violent crime. To ignore the fear that approximately 180 million Americans have that own 310 million weapons including 18 million assault-style rifles is a travesty - and dangerous. Trying to confiscate or outlaw weapons of a law-abiding citizen that has a constitutional right to not only own weapons, but possess weapons sufficient to protect from threats foreign AND domestic, not only invites resistance - but also more violence. Americans will not tolerate Gestapo like home invasions or seizures for very long, and history supports this. A dialogue on the factors growing mass killers like Lanza is needed, NOT knee-jerk policies that have been proven to be ineffective just to satisfy your voting base which, is all this POTUS appears to be concerned with. Enough said.

Eugene 87 - Reread my post. I never suggested a confiscation or searching of homes for guns. Are you reading in between/outside the lines or just rearranging letters and or words in my post? There is no nefarious step 1 or 2. If you want to keep your weapon for a "false sense of security" go ahead. If you want to hold onto some warped cultural/ heritage bonding ritual and sportingly blast a deer go ahead.

As with many issues, things have to be looked at comprehensively. Yes mental health issues need to be addressed as well as discussed in the article. I understand that gun regulations is not a one stop cure all. The legislation should include additional funding to help school districts with trained professionals to monitor distraught potentially violent students. It should allow them to act accordingly when issues or warning signs arise. Outside of the "student" age range, mental health professionals and people who know these troubled people have to act.

These young, mentally unstable, white men who all so frequently are the norm must be stopped from accessing and purchasing guns. The loopholes for obtaining these weapons without background checks must be closed.

In addition, their parents must have enough SENSE not to store these weapons of death in their house for easy pickings and use. People around the aforementioned individuals must have the ability to hospitalize (put them away) before they actually do a crime. Our mental hospitals must recieve more funding and insurances must cover mental health treatment so that the family can afford to treat them.

The answer is surprisingly simple. The constitution guarantees the right to "bear arms", or own guns. It doesn't say anything about bullets. Just ban the bullets!

What happened t his week was terrible. I wish we could have prevented it. But now to limit the rights of responsible gun owners will only help those that want to break the law. If someone will do something like this they will not care what law they break. More laws are not the answer. After all we already have a law against murdering another person. This freak did not care about that law now did he? More gun laws will only limit the general public. There are also laws that say you cannot bring guns onto a school campus and I think that just makes them more of a target. Crazy people like this goto schools because they know there will be no one there to shoot back at them. Everyone is defenseless. Lets have well trained armed security guards at schools. Our children deserved to be protected.

@mb-757763

Backcountry

If you check out Slate's article on Australia's gun control measures they will tell you that all the studies/statistics provided that show the gun control didn't work were found to be massively flawed and/or outright fabricated. And they were all funded by anti-gun control groups.

Slate!!! That's your source???? Give me a break; I want facts not opinions.

And I'm just going to assume that the Australian Institute of Criminology is NOT an "anti-gun control group" considering it is a part of the Australian government.- http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html

Let's see, we're being called cowards because we don't want our gun rights infringed further, so let's ante up cause that's what they do in Vegas.

Okay Mguy, you stupid faggot. I'll see you in Vegas and you better have the money or I'll break your kneecaps and tell the cops you fell. Meet me in front of the Marriott Grand Chateau at 7pm tonight. 75 East Harmon Avenue because you're probably too stupid to know where that is. We'll see who the ballsy little Democrat is who can run his mouth on the Internet. Dress classy cause we're going to take a picture together.

You'll know me by the guy that's about 6 feet tall wearing a grey fedora hat, a charcoal grey suit with a red handkerchief in the breast pocket and I'll be wearing a blue tie with a white buttonup shirt. I got a gold ring on my left hand, a mustache and sandy blonde hair. Think you can remember all that? You better not puss out, you cocky little bitch. Not after all your big talk.

Shinelight, we pushed God out of everything besides Church, Money and Government. Yet Lust, Greed and Corruption levels have saturated through even the most religious fanatics.

Bruce Hershimburger

Bring God back to schools and government? Seriously? More people have been murdered throughout history in the name of some God or another. Religion as a whole is violent and exclusionary and the bane of a civilized society.

@JohnWaynePolitics

Bruce-Pull your head out of your buns man, we don't live in the middle east or any other state with mass religious violence. Make a valid argument. I'm sick of reading all of these one liners from people who happened to catch a glimpse of CNN. Put some logic into your posts.

C'mon Man!

And the reason we don't live like in the middle east, is because of the separation of Church and State in our secular society. Otherwise we'd still be burning people alive or stoning them to death like we did back when the church had its way. There was a reason why the Founding Fathers didn't want the Church affecting policy, afterall, they didn't just do it for the heck of it.

Have you ever actually played a video game? No well balanced person plays call of duty, then has the urge to go out and slaughter people. Call of duty is mild in violence compared to some of the other games on the market. And if the issue is kids playing them all these games who is buying them for them? Last I checked all of these games are rated M 17+. Blame mom and dad.

Exactly. That's why exaggerated gun control measures are not going to cut down on this type of tragedy. Responsible gun owners will abide by the laws and the rules, and when they take the guns home, if they have children like Adam and aren't aware of the mental health risks associated with EVERYTHING he is doing, and if they don't secure the guns so he can't get hold of them, and if schools don't step up and realize that in the times we live in, yes, they damn well SHOULD have someone on campus trained and armed, this Newton/Virginia Tech/Columbine tragedy will happen again.

And since warning signs of all the perpetrators go all the way back to their school days, funds should be allocated for mental health professionals, independent of the politics and rule of local and state school boards, for high schools.

(Yes, I have played these games.)

Ferrosynthesis-3490482
...I saw a show last night about a bunch of half wits training with all kinds of guns to protect themselves from the upcoming invasion of zombies. There were a whole bunch of them tearing up the man shaped targets. They got into a discussion about whether you would shoot your children if they became zombies. I thought is was a satire. It wasn't. (Probably endorsed by the NRA!)

Was it anything like these halfwits? I doubt if the NRA endorsed it, but you and I did sponsor it.

•Zombie Apocalypse Training: Grant funds were approved to pay the $1,000 fee for a week-long conference at Paradise Point Resort and Spa in San Diego. The marquee event over the summit was its highly-promoted "zombie apocalypse" demonstration. Strategic Operations, a tactical training firm, was hired to put on a "zombie-driven show" designed to simulate a real-life terrorism event. The firm performed two shows on Halloween, which featured forty actors dressed as zombies getting gunned down by a military tactical unit (pp. 24-25). (See "First responders train to deal with a new threat: zombie attack," HSNW, 19 September 2012)

http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/dr20121207-first-responders-drill-response-to-a-night-of-the-walking-dead-scenario

EASY
CHOICE
FOR ME

Your AR-15

or

MY CHILD.

Clearly...Mental Help is neded for lot of the Viners who pick a gun over a massacre.

"...More people have been murdered throughout history in the name of some God or another. Religion as a whole is violent and exclusionary and the bane of a civilized society.

"...Otherwise we'd still be burning people alive or stoning them to death like we did back when the church had its way."

@VisionStorm & @Bruce Hershimburger

'Religion' as the great historical killer is such nonsense. True, bad people have used what we now distinguish as 'religion' to justify horrendous acts, but other ideologies not deemed 'religions' have been used as justification for acts of astonishing brutality - ie. look at the Regimes of China, Russia, and Cambodia that forced communism on their people and in the process murder hundreds of millions of people. So it is not 'religion' that is the problem. It is when ANY ideology is used to force a people into subservience. You have to remember that for most of history there has not been a separation of Religion and Science. And it is only very recently in history that societies have separated the two.

the australian experience is undeniable, gun homicides soared after guns were banned

Reference please! My research indicates not only that your statement is deniable, but that it is complete B.S.

Overall levels of homicide and suicide have remained relatively static for several decades, while the proportion of these crimes that involved firearms has consistently declined since the early 1980s.

per:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

JH479 - most pathetic post on the board. President Obama reacts to events in the world around him and you view this is some sort of opportunism. SOme people are born with a fulll set of teeeth; you seeem to have beeen born with a fulll set of opinions (Which can never change.)

"Following controversy over its purchase of around 1.2 billion bullets in the last six months alone, the Department of Homeland Security has put out a new solicitation for over 200 million more rounds of ammunition, some of which are designated to be used by snipers." claims Infowar.com

Can anyone explain why?

BackCountry

Please... you are one of the most extreme, far-right, fanatics on these boards. And now you want me to believe you are not a Republican? LOL... you're a funny guy. Let me guess, "Republicans" are too liberal for you, so you consider yourself something else. Ya, like that makes you any different.

And I notice you did not comment on the dates where I highlighted Republicans claiming Obama is planning to "ban all guns".

So the question remains, why are people like you afraid to take my bet? You are convinced that there is some "evil plan" by "dictator Obama" to take all your guns away... ok, stick to your convictions. Show us how much you actually believe what you say.

See, that is the real issue. Republicans... or far-right religious extremists like you... will make all these claims about what Obama is "planning" to do. You will rant, rave, and scream about the "evil socialist" in the White House. But money has a way of showing people for who they really are. And as soon as people like you are challenged to put your money where your mouth is, suddenly the strength of your convictions start to fade.

And look at the results... not one Republican is willing to put money on their claims. They are so convinced that Obama will take their guns, until they are challenged to put money on that claim. When money is involved, they are suddenly not so convinced... it's like magic.

So what has my little rant accomplished? I have managed to prove that every Republican... or whatever you call yourself... lacks the convictions to stand behind what they claim. I have proven they are all liars. So you can call me whatever name you like, I could care less. Because at the end of the day, I can still stand behind my claim... whereas everyone else knows that the Republicans here are spreading lies.

So I repeat... there will never, ever, EVER be a complete gun ban.

Hey-isn't Biden the one that "SHOT" a friend while hunting...and they want to put that idiot in charge? Gee, what's wrong with that picture...besides EVERYTHING! So because of some mentally challanged kid, who's mother couldn't or wouldn't...didn't, get him the proper mental-health care he obviously needed everyone's screaming for "GUN CONTROLL". Have you ignorant fools learned anything yet? Apparently not! Go ahead and place more restrictions on the Americans who "LEGALLY" own guns, they'll probably follow your new petty laws. BUT the people who do crazy crap like this, and so many other horrible acts, are not going to care about your new laws...they didn't obviously care about the old ones and unless you can get rid of every gun in the world, which you can't, all you'll acomplish is making it harder for Americans to protect themselves! It shouldn't come as any surprise that the number of "AMERICANS" needing MENTAL-HEALTH care is growing...thanx to the mentally challanged fools running this country...into the ground!!!

Didn't he assign Joe to make sure there wasn't any fraud in the stimulus programs????

Look how well that worked out........

@RI Mom

Clearly...Mental Help is neded for lot of the Viners who pick a gun over a massacre.

The problem is that statistics the world over have show that when guns are taken out of the hands of civilians gun crime actually goes UP not down. You progressives latch on to these bandaid solutions that don't actually solve problems. This is a societal epidemic brought on by poor parenting, lackluster education, and a culture that glorifies deviance and spits in the face of spirituality, hard work, personal empowerment, and self restraint. De-arming the populace will not solve the greater problem and in fact puts all of us at greater risk of gun crimes.

WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCEMURDER AND SUICIDE?
www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

Shinelight......"That said, I do believe that America's problem is a spiritual one buts also a physical one." Im a Christian, not a troll. Do you really think that these attacks are not connected and I dont mean spiritually. The bible is the history of two seedlines. One is connected to God and the other to Satan. When Christ stood there and pointed his finger at the jews and said, Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Discussing anything without a complete understanding of who and what these jews are and what they are doing to us is simply a waste of time.

Put up signs that state 'DON'T SHOOT PEOPLE". "MURDER IS ILLEGAL". "People illegally shooting firearms will be prosecuted" Please remember this, law abiding gun owners hurt nobody, only criminals with guns hurt people. Law abiding US Citizens with firearms stop Criminals with guns. When you take firearms from Law Abiding Citizens, only the Criminals will have firearms and nothing will have been accomplished.

Demands? That used to be up to the people first. Arrogant POS.

hey archangel 3:16, i dont get to see you post much but when you do I enjoy it.

1.190

OK

#1... I said no more semi-automatics.

I do endorse

MENTAL HEALTH AND READING COMPRHENSION

1.188

Don't post unless you get your facts straight.

You've totally discredited yourself by saying BIDEN shot a fellow hunter.

A knee jerk reaction to my post shows the idiocy of someone who would also pull a TRIGGER without thinking.

Good grief. I didn't think the level of vitriol and juvenile incivility ever-present on these Newsvine discussion forums could still surprise me, until reading this thread. When did civil and grown-up expression and communication become quaint and irrelevant?

Who would want the job of President of the United States?

F#%k YOU Yellowdog-it isn't only the young WHITE men who commit these horrific mass murders...older ones do too!

mguy-478

BackCountry

Please... you are one of the most extreme, far-right, fanatics on these boards. And now you want me to believe you are not a Republican? LOL... you're a funny guy. Let me guess, "Republicans" are too liberal for you, so you consider yourself something else. Ya, like that makes you any different....or far-right religious extremists like you

Actually I'm a libertarian and I am 100% in support of gay marriage (not to mention ending ALL discrimination by our government against them) as well as ending the war on drug users and have said so MANY times here on NewsVine. I'm also agnostic and have mentioned that numerous times also. Once again your drivel is nothing more than BS.

And I notice you did not comment on the dates where I highlighted Republicans claiming Obama is planning to "ban all guns".

Yes, I did ignore your attempt to change the subject and dodge pointing out who exactly you were addressing with the comment I responded to.

So the question remains, why are people like you afraid to take my bet?

Ummm, actually someone DID offer to take you up on your bet (post #1.176 ) so I guess now the ball is in YOUR court. Will you show up?? Somehow I doubt it, I can feel the hot air coming from you right through my screen. But I am looking forward to your excuse as I'm sure it will be epic. lol

So what has my little rant accomplished?

It's made many of us laugh our asses off!!

I would if it means getting rid of that idiot!

To much hatred in This country...Animals are laughing at us.

Robin Lynne Rose

Hey-isn't Biden the one that "SHOT" a friend while hunting...and they want to put that idiot in charge? Gee, what's wrong with that picture.

Let me re-frame that PICTURE for you:

Dick Cheney severely wounded a hunter when he shot him in the face.

Also...why the potty mouth?

The president looks happy in the photo and why not, the disaster fits right in with his plans.

Robin Lynne Rose wrote:

F#%k YOU Yellowdog-it isn't only the young WHITE men who commit these horrific mass murders...older ones do too!

Did you intend for your post to be sardonic? If not, you still have people laughing, well done!

It doesnt matter what these gun freaks are saying...the country doesnt buy it anymore. Enough is Enough says America! That trumps any lame-azz NRA defense for doing nothing...or far worse, arming everyone. In the wake of these tragedies that NO OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH has in proportion to the U.S, we can no longer look at a purist defnition of the 1st and 2nd Amendments to dismiss the problem. Violence is in our media, assault wepaons are on our streets.

But you cant yell fire in a crowded movie theater and a Grande launcher cannot be opuchased commercvially. Boith go against the 'purity' of their respective Amendments. So there is (and should be) room to have exceptions in the name of reducing the killing of innoicent citizens. The purist 2nd Amandment definition just wont cut it any more.

AMERICA is fed up, its VERY likley there will be a re-newal of the Assault Weapons ban, a ban on high capacity magazines and a requirement to close the Gun Show loophole for getting around background checks and also there is what should be a ban on ordering ammo over the internet.

These are common sense reforms. No ones existing guns would be taken away, and I believe the new consensus is that no one needs a 50 round magazine to kill a deer or a duck. And while someone could just buy 2, 30-round clips, they will still have to pause shooting to reload.

The idea is not to elminate gun violence, you cant. Its to reduce it, make it almost impossible for a mentally unstable person to get a gun and make it harder to shoot as many bullets before police/security can come to the rescue. BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY

The idea of 'don't ban guns because it wont stop everyone' is the same old tired argument. If it doesnt solve 100% of the problem, then dont do it. This argument no longer works for Amerrica.

And America has been polled and they agree. The guns dont kill people mantra has lost its relavance and is now rendered impotent by events. Your arguments to do NOITHING will not be heard anymore. This time , Amewrica wants action, and that actionm includes prospecticvvely taking assault weapons out of

No the reforms wont stop evryone who is determinefd and has criminal arms dfealer connections, but it will reduce the supply of the assault weaponms that can spit 30 rouinds in seconds.

joeyokum - Please do not be disrespectful to the "office of the president." Like it or not, he got elected, and he is our country's leader. Such a terrible event has caused millions of Americans to demand that something be done.

However, if President Obama or any other politician thinks that stricter gun laws would prevent shooting sprees; please, tell me more about how criminals obey and follow laws.

Chadical:

It is the responsibility of the Parents to see that their children are "buckled" in with their seat belts in a vehicle.. Way too many parents do not care--Our laws are stiff in our State about children's car seats, changing them as they grow up, etc.

When owning guns, automatic rifles, there is no responsibility by the Parent, except that they keep them out of their home..

One cannot compare the children killed in car accidents, because of the ignorance of the parents, to unwanted Massacres of innocent human beings. "It's the Guns". The Mentally challenged should be overseen by a parent, but what if that Child grows up into Adulthood. Who's responsbility is it then?

Taking Medication for Serious Mental Illness is also the responsibility of the person who is ill. No one can jam a pill down someone's throat. Not even Mrs. Lanza---How are we going to deal with the severity of so many Americans that are Mentally ill, not seeking help?

That is the question. The proposal of a Gun Control Law is good--now containing freaky people from slaughtering is another issue. What is the answer?

Robert in Oregon, spare us the sanctimonious diatribe. Just the other day you were pontificating that since you have never felt threatenrd, save one time in your life, that guns should be banned.

These young, mentally unstable, white men who all so frequently are the norm must be stopped from accessing and purchasing guns.

nice veiled racism yellow dog. Care to dig through the numbers of blacks that commit violent crimes with guns or hispanics or indians or asians. Why is it people like you that have to segragate white people into a category then label us/them racist or have racist overtones. The Newton massacre, the guy did NOT purchase a gun and as for accessing you might want to visit the illegal arms trade. You know criminals (those law abiding citizens) could care less how they get the gun and whether or not they have the legality to possess one.

Looks like the NRA has been sending out flyers and emails stirring the anti-gun laws pot.

Some of these posts would be laughable, if they were not so pathetic. Like the guy who said the Virginia Tech shooter did not use an assault rifle to kill those 32 students, so that makes everything ok with current gun laws. LOL

Well, it's easy to read all the reports about the two semi-automatic assault weapons that the killer used. Does it really matter if it was a rifle or not?

Fortunately, those of us who want reasonable gun laws do not have to sit silently and be bullied by the NRA or its supporters anymore.

Let the paranoid gun enthusiasts stockpile their military style assault weapons, and race around in their pickup trucks, and curse people who want reasonable gun laws to protect our innocent citizens, and cry out that others are infringing on their rights as individuals (because they don't give a hang about the welfare of others -- only their OWN rights). Let them make ridiculous excuses about mental illness is the real problem, and guns don't kill people, and someone could kill scores of people with just a knife as easily as with automatic weapons, ETC. ETC.

All those excuses and threats don't mean anything to decent Americans anymore.

WE WON'T BE BULLIED BY THE NRA OR ITS SUPPORTERS ANYMORE.

WE WANT STRICTER GUN LAWS.

RI Mom,

What annoys me is that ignorant people like you vote. An assault weapon ban will not protect your kid. Gun control has NEVER protected anyone. With increase control, increased violence followed. So we're not choosing guns over kids, were saying taking away guns makes it more dangerous. And there is countless statistics and proof to back this up. What do you have to offer besides ignorance and fear?

Backccountry

Oh damn, I totally missed the post. Awesome, thanks.

MisterJ

So you are willing to bet me $10,000 that EVERY SINGLE GUN will be banned by Obama? I just want to make sure you are aware of the terms, because people like you have a tendency to twist this stuff around.

I'm not talking about assault rifles, I am talking about EVERY SINGLE GUN. Those are the terms. Every single gun gets banned, I pay you. If even one gun remains legal, you pay me. That's the deal. Good?

And do you really think it's smart to admit, on a public forum, that you are going to assault someone?

Miklkit 1:45

Because Driving is a priviledge not a right?

JHxxxx(paid shill)

Really? A minority of people did not vote for President Obama? Funny, it seems a Majority of VOTERS did vote for him, sorry for you, so sad, get a life. YOU and those that HATE the way you do, are UNAMERICAN. All you desire is to stir crap on message board such as these. I am active in my community, especially in the field of human and animal rights. I put my money where my mouth is, which is surely more than you can say. Try it sometime. Try helping someone less fortunate than you; try driving a U-Haul full of supplies to provide clothes and (some) shelter to a person hurt by Hurricane Sandy. Try realizing there are "others" less fortunate than you who are hurting in this economy. Then transfer that into educating yourself about causes you do not believe in and get back to me about that. The last statement is why I comment (on what used to be called 'the vine') attempting to fight the mighty tightie righties and all of your BS. I DO learn, unfortunately, what I have learned is that people who believe the way you do often dismiss the rights and liberties of the majority in defense of the rights and liberties of a very small, rich, and vocal minority.

silverton-2953905,

You're not decent. Your ignorant. Gun laws have never cut down on gun crime. They have only increased the crime. We have stats and reason, you have ignorance and fear. We wont be bullied by the willfully ignorant. Damn, and "people" like you vote. That is why our country is going down.

MisterJ-1780316

I was waiting for that. You did not disappoint. Well done. If I had $10G to spare, I would have said it myself.

RI Mom

Your post highlights the illogical nature of the argument to ban ANY guns. There is no conclusion that a logical person would come to that requires choosing between me owning any gun and you or anybody's child.

You throw that out there as a straw man which cannot be argued against, but that is not a decision anyone is being forced to make. Nice dramatics though.

@shinelight and others. It makes me extremely sad to see that there are people like you still around. Trying to preach religion in our public institutions. By allowing "God" (an invention understandably made to prove science, but is now outdated since we have REAL science now) into our schools, you are in essence preventing free speech and thought. You have NO idea what you are saying when you say you want religion to be pushed back into our schools and government. It goes against everything in modern Western philosophy. Your (just religious people in general) bible thumping has killed millions of people throughout the centuries. I have nothing against people who believe in a greater being, but I do have a problem when they try to indiscreetly force it upon others. I would prefer our society be "sinful" (entertainment industry) and non-religious, than very oppressive and religious. Also, I don't give a flying #&$! if the founding fathers were greatly influenced by the bible. All of society was influenced by the bible! Doesn't mean it's right! Also, while our country WAS originally started upon evangelical beliefs (Pilgrims and all that), by the time of the the drafting of the constitution, the Christian god was not on the minds of the founding fathers as much as other things. By the way, in essence, the Constitution is EXTREMELY contradictory to the teachings of the bible, in such a way that you TECHNICALLY cannot claim to be an Christian and a patriot at the same time. Remember, that I said technically, because I know many religious people that love this country greatly, but by looking at purely ideology, this country is for heathens. Oh, and when you die, you don't find angels or demons.

How about we all compromise and let the mothers and fathers of the children who were slaughtered, and the husbands and families of the teachers who were massacred, decide after they bury their dead this week whether we need stricter gun laws or not?

silverton-2953905

How about we all compromise and let the mothers and fathers of the children who were slaughtered, and the husbands and families of the teachers who were massacred, decide after they bury their dead this week whether we need stricter gun laws or not?

Because we would have decisions affecting the rights of millions of people made by highly emotional people. Rarely are well thought out, sound decisions made when emotions are this high.

The majority of Americans spoke out during the last election, and even though the NRA spent MILLIONS of dollars trying to oust the President, they could not do it. The NRA spent MILLIONS of dollars backing and bribing GOP and Tea Party politicians trying to swing the election.

Didn't work this time.

Sorry, NRA, your glory days are over.

You may still bribe some politicans, and churn out your propaganda to irrational and gullible gun owners, but you or your supporters cannot bully us anymore.

I have owned a gun and enjoy target shooting, but I don't need or want an assault weapon. Only the police and military need those. (Yes, I know ... we should all be living in fear of what would happen if the government turned on us, etc. etc.)

Go ahead, NRA, and whip your supporters into a frenzy while you publicly state your "concern and condolences" to the families of the dead.

The blood is red on your hands.

I log on here to see where the intelligent thought is and to see if the majority are actually seeing through this latest ruse to put the average citizen at the mercy of the bank backed government and this is what I see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrDJOiFX4aA

silverton-2953905,

The blood is not on their hands. The blood is on morons like you who try to make it about guns instead of focusing on the real issue.

haggisbingo-2225582

• 
  
• Who cares!
• 
  
• Mental health is a Red Herring and pursuing that will accomplish NOTHING
• 
  
• BAN high-capacity magazines and assault weapons. Never a better time.

Actually both are not causal to the vast majority of gun murder. I'll list non-NRA studies, one from Obama's own college (Harvard Law and Public Policy) that shows guns are not only NOT causal, but they aren't even corollary to gun murder rates by nation. What is correlated in every case, and what is causal therefore, is the Drug War.

A Mathematical Approach to What Causes Gun Murder in America

Mass murder shootings happen 20 times a year in the USA on average...but that is less than 2% of all gun murders. It isn't the big threat in terms of annual gun murders. It is also one of the least preventable causes (because crazy people use cars, knives, rope, fire, fists, bombs, etc., to murder people). So what are the causes of the vast majority of gun murders (which would matter to those interested in actually reducing gun murder)?

Some wish to have gun control and gun bans in the wake of our last few mass shooting tragedies.

At what cost? Childproof society because a SMALL number (per capita) abuse the right? There are 200,000,000 guns in the USA, and 40-60 million people own those guns. Until this last year, which the FBI will have no official stats for until 2 years from now BTW, the crime rates, including violent crime and gun crime, had been falling for 30-50 years (moreso in the last 30). And this year there was only a slight uptick (several years into a recession no less, where people turn to drug "crime" for supplemental income). The population growth and guns in circulation, not to mention legal permits to carry guns, over that 30 years has far outpaced the gun murder growth. So even though the total gun murders probably went up this year, we still have a declining rate overall in the last 3 decades. I'll overestimate and say we had 13,000 gun murders, and do a little math for you.

Let's say the 40-60 million gun owners are 50 million owners...right in the middle (the average estimate).

200 million guns / 50 million = 4 guns per owner on average.

200 million guns / 13,000 gun murders = 15,384.62 guns per murder (that's a lot of guns not killing people)

Percentage chance a gun in the USA will murder = .0065% (or 6.5 in every 1000 guns...that's 993.5 guns in every 1000 guns not murdering people)

50 million gun owners / 13,000 gun murders = 3,846.15 gun owners not murdering for every 1 gun murder (that's a lot of gun owners not murdering anyone)

Percentage chance a gun owner will murder with a gun = .026% (or 26 in every 1,000...that's 974 gun owners in every 1,000 not murdering anyone)

315,000,000 American people / 13,000 gun murders = 24,230.77 Americans per 1 gun murder victim

Percentage chance you as an American will be murdered by a gun = .0041% (that's 4.1 in every 1,000...or a tiny threat for the mathematically challenged. You have a better chance at dying of the flu - 33,000 flu deaths per year in the USA)

Permits to carry guns and total guns in circulation in the USA has never been higher (which is not the same as ownership rate, which is actually down)...and yet the threat is very, very low. Still think all those other people should give up their rights for a threat less than the flu? Please recall that almost 70% of gun murders are commited by criminals, not law abiding citizens. No gun ban or gun control logically affects them, as they already don't abide laws, and we aren't on an island where getting guns is hard when they are banned (it's easier in say England or Australia, because of geography, to ban guns).

Now let's compare to the Holy Grail of gun control advocates (Canada and England) who value freedom so low as to want "to purchase temporary safety at the expense of liberty", as Ben Franklin put it (he said you will "get neither" when you do that, and I'll add "you deserve neither"). BTW, I'd point out Canada didn't outlaw guns at all in reality :

Canada's population 35.5 million / 126 gun murders = 281,746 citizens per gun murder

Percentage chance of being murdered by a gun as a Canadian = .0004% (4 in every 10,000)

Gun owners in Canada is 10.934 million / 126 gun murders = 86,777.78 gun owners per gun murder

Percentage chance a gun owner in Canada murders you with a gun = .0012% (1.2 in every 1,000)

Now let's look at England's gun ban paradise:

England's population 53 million / 39 gun murders = 1,358,974 citizens per gun murder

Percentage chance of being murdered by a gun in England = .0001% (or 1 in 10,000)

Gun owners in England 1.8 million / 39 gun murders = 46,153.85 gun owners per 1 murder by gun

Percentage chance a English gun owner murders you with a gun = .0022% (2.2 in every 1,000)

I'd point out gun CRIMES (not just murders) in England have soared upward 35% since the gun bans. Criminals used handguns in 46% more crimes, and it was the fourth consecutive year to see a rise...there were more than 2,200 more gun crimes last year, the most since the previous peak in 1993.

Stats show the number of crimes involving handguns have more than doubled since the post-Dunblane massacre, which brought about the ban on the weapons, from 2,636 in 1997-1998 to 5,871.

Quote:Unadjusted figures showed overall recorded crime in the 12 months to last September rose 9.3%, but the Home Office stressed that new procedures had skewed the figures.

Shadow home secretary Oliver Letwin said: "These figures are truly terrible.

"Despite the street crime initiative, robbery is massively up. So are gun-related crimes, domestic burglary, retail burglary, and drug offenses.

"The only word for this is failure: the Government's response of knee-jerk reactions, gimmicks and initiatives is not working and confused signals on sentences for burglary will not help either."

So England's gun bans may have lowered total murders, and even the rate of murders, but the violent crime rates are soaring. Guns are a game theory mathematical deterent to crime, especially violent crime, believe it or not.

So what can we get from all these stats?

Population matters, as does other factors besides guns themselves:

The whole story is told in the percentage chance a gun owner will murder with a gun - USA is .026%, Canada is .0012%, and England's is .0022%.

As you can see, Canada has a higher rate of ownership of guns and more total guns than England, and yet has a LOWER gun owner murder rate than England! That means it isn't guns that are the factor making England murder more. So why is Canada so low, while England is nearly double that? Why is the USA more than 10 times higher than England? All of this is adjusted for population and total guns in society...so what is the factor making us so much more prone to murder (even if it is a tiny threat overall to life) here in the USA?

THE DRUG WAR.

In England they have a drug war, but they do not focus on possession. Meanwhile we lock up nonviolent criminals at the almost the exact same rate as violent ones in America. Canada has legal marijuana in some areas, and has for years, and takes a very relaxed attitude toward drug use in general (although they have laws which are largely unenforced).

Just like during the Prohibition of alcohol, murder rates have soared under the Drug War. So has our incarcerations and incarceration rates...we now lock up more people in total than any other country in the world (yes, even the vastly more populated China and India)! That's total and per capita! "Land of the Free"? Think again. "Land of the prisoner" is more accurate. We arrested more than 750,000 people last year for just marijuana! 86% of those arrests were for small amounts; simple possession charges. It's not only tyrannical, it's a waste of resources which fuels a black market run by criminal sociopaths, and takes resources away from fighting actual violent crime like theft, property damage, assault, rape, child abuse, and murder.

This War on Drugs (and personal adult freedom) has given us the street gang phenomenon on the scales we see today. Chicago alone has dozens of separate drug gangs. They also have a high murder rate to go along with super-strict gun control in comparison to other cities...because guns aren't the problem, the Drug War is. Many of their gangs can trace their roots to either the beginning of Prohibition, or the beginning of the modern Drug War.

In Honduras where gun murders are most common and horribly frequent, they have gun rights...but they also have a country which is a main thoroughfaire for the illegal drug trade. By comparison, Uruguay has almost the same gun ownership rates as the USA and the same gun rights as well, yet they have a lower gun murder rate because they have no war on drugs. In fact, their govt is seriously considering selling marijuana to its citizens to get the drug trade completely above-board!

If you want our rate of murder to decrease via guns you don't take away guns, you end the Drug War. If you have any doubts about this go look at the murder rates after alcohol Prohibition began, and then after it ended. Also look at countries that have already ended their Drug Wars.

Crime rates in Prohibition rose immediately 78%, 24% in just one year from 1920-1921 (the first year)

http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/0049...e_Rate.htm

The murder rate was cut in nearly half (40% decline), from 10 per 100,000 to 6 per 100,000 when Prohibition ended. This was directly caused by the repeal of Prohibition in 1933.

http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-...as-failure

If we want to half our gun murders, legalize drugs. If you want to further bring it down address the next major cause; domestic violence. Spanking children leads to many issues surrounding violence, but especially domestic violence. If domestic violence is how you raise children, then expect them to use it themselves as adults. A small number of those people will kill a domestic relative or partner. The gun simply facilitates it.

The final point I'll make is that if only .026% of gun owners murder someone with a gun, then 99.974% of gun owners don't kill someone with a gun. It's hard to argue we need to punish the 99.974% for what the .026% do. That kind of illogic is used in schools to punish classrooms full of kids for what one anonymous child has done...and it leads to bullying, because children then ostracize their peers who are guilty (and they don't know how to ostracize responsibly, so it ends up in bullying). We should use a more logical approach on adults. In a nation of 315 million people, with a Drug War raging and domestic violence against kids being the norm, a 99.974% responsible gun owner rate is unbelievably good. Perspective, instead of irrational fear and knee-jerk reaction, is what helps here.

ADDED:

Someone said they thought we could half gun murder by ending the drug war, but the we'd double the drunk/drugged driving deaths...but that is illogical. No one has any problem getting drugs now, and they already drive on them now. Also, when drugs were legalized across the board in other nations the usage only went up slightly, and in some nations actually decreased. Plus, when we re-legalized alcohol the usage here only went up slightly, while alcoholism went down (especially among minors), and the murder rate fell in that first year (1933) 40%. THINK through why your criticisms might not be logical...and Bing or Google them to see people have already answered these illogical and/or irrational reservations.

Lastly, someone else said they would never change their mind about being anti-gun no matter the evidence...but again, that is irrational. There are irrational people who won't fly even though they ADMIT cars are more likely to kill them. They drive but won't fly...that is irrational. Guns are less likely to kill a kid than swimming pools. How afraid are you of swimming pools? Cars kill more people than guns...how afraid are you of cars? Gun murder is almost 3 times less likely to kill you than the normal flu virus...how afraid are you of guns vs the flu? Being rational means fearing things based on thr actual RATIONAL chance they have to kill you, not the IRRATIONAL fear of HOW it might kill you. Guns are not nearly as dangerous as the media and most anti-gun people think they are.

In fact, more lives are saved in the USA every year than are taken by guns every year. They are in reality, indisputably, a NET GAIN of life. If only 2% of the 750,000 crimes prevented by private guns (FBI stat) save one life (or 1% saves 2 lives, etc.), then more lives are saved than taken. BTW...sutdies show many more than that are saved by guns...the estimate by Clinton Administration study was 2 million lives per year...which might be high...and other more intensive studies show the number to be in the tens of thousands, up to 200,000, per year. But EVEN IF the number was only 15,000 as I suggested with my 2% number, we're still looking at more lives saved than murdered.

FURTHER ADDED:

A study done by the Harvard Jounal of Law and Public Policy reports some interesting statistics.

The study, which appeared in Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pp. 649-694), set out to answer the question in its title: "Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence." Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is "no." And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.

The findings of two criminologists - Prof. Don Kates and Prof. Gary Mauser - in their exhaustive study of American and European gun laws and violence rates, are telling:

Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population).

For example, Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe, yet possesses the lowest murder rate. In contrast, Holland's murder rate is nearly the worst, despite having the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe. Sweden and Denmark are two more examples of nations with high murder rates but few guns. As the study's authors write in the report:

If the mantra "more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death" were true, broad cross-national comparisons should show that nations with higher gun ownership per capita consistently have more death. Nations with higher gun ownership rates, however, do not have higher murder or suicide rates than those with lower gun ownership. Indeed many high gun ownership nations have much lower murder rates. (p. 661)

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs...online.pdf

STILL FURTHER ADDED:

It appears there is also NO correlation between single parenthood, violent video games, movies, TV shows, music, one religion or another (or lack thereof), etc.

Like guns, those are just NOT causal to high gun murder rates, despite the illogic used to say they are. (To be clear, it is intuitive to think guns and these other things cause the problem...but there is NO factual basis for it, and the factual nature of things is often deductively logical, and counter-intuitive.)

Let's get something straight, the BushMaster rifle used in this tragedy is not an "assault" rifle. Even by the assault weapons ban definition. It is simply a semi-automayic rifle that is functionally the same as many hunting rifles. It is not a military weapon. It may look like one, but it is not one. Just putting racing stripes and numbers on the doors of a Prius doesn't make it a race car. Wearing cammo doesn't make you a soldier. Likewise, putting a bunch of cosmetic parts on a semi-auto rifle doesn't make it a military assault weapon. But people see these and think "Hey that looks like what our troups use in war." It isn't.

If heard some recent statements saying more than half the public wants a ban on "assualt weapons". Trouble is that I'd bet 75% of those don't know what it is and think it's a "military weapon". It's not.

The bottom line is that no-one can buy a military assualt rifle without obtaining a special permit for automatic "machine guns". The difference between these "so called assault rifles" is purely cosmetic in nature. If you read the descriptions in the old assault rifle ban, you will see that it only differentiates by these cosmetic features. A black plastic stock, a pistol grip or a bayonet mount, make absolutely no difference in the way of lethality.

Here's what previously determined an assault weapon:

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

• Folding or telescoping stock
• Pistol grip
• Bayonet mount
• Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
• Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device that enables launching or firing rifle grenades, though this applies only to muzzle mounted grenade launchers and not those mounted externally).

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

• Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
• Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
• Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
• Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
• A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:

• Folding or telescoping stock
• Pistol grip
• Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
• Detachable magazine.

These features have no effect on lethality. Unless of course you get scared to death because you think it is a military weapon.

As to large capacity magazines. The reality is these really offer no distinct advantage to the killer in one of these type shootings. Swapping a magazine takes no more than 2-3 seconds before you are shoooting again. Someone who is very practiced can do it amazingly fast. In a case like this where no one is shooting back, it's meaningless. It may offer a slight advantage in a fire fight, but that isn't what's happening in these situations. Anybody who thinks they could rush and tackle a guy during a magazine change is simply going to get dead faster. Not going to happen. Someone who plans out one of these mass shootings will make sure he has an adequate number of magazine regardless of whether it is 10, 20 or 30 rounds.

In reality larger magazines are far more prone to jams and failure to feed problems. Clearing that takes far more time than swapping a magazine. This scenario might just provide the opportunity for someone to strike quickly. 100 round drum magazines are virtually guaranteed to provide at least 1 jam or failure to feed. These are an expensive piece of junk. The military doesn't use these because they are far more trouble than they are worth. In the Aurora shooting earlier this year, the shooter had a 100 round drum magazine on his Smith & Wesson M&P15, (basically the same gun as the BushMaster only more expensive, it is an AR-15 copy). After firing a couple dozen rounds, the magazine failed, making the weapon inoperable. Even cheap readily available 30 round magazines aren't flawless by any means. The often must be "tweaked" to keep them reliable and can be sensitive to the brand of ammo. It should be noted that the original M-16, military automatic version had only a 20 round standard magazine. More is not always better. It has been fairly common that these mass shooters have used high capacity magazines, but in reality, it isn't really buying them an edge over unarmed victims, in fact it has the potential to actually make them vulnerable for a brief period. But it should be pretty clear that these people aren't really thinking very clearly or logically in the first place.

However, a thirty round magazine is actually more suited to a defensive role where you need to grab your gun and run out the back door. If you have some people breaking down your front door, you aren't going to stop to grab spare magazines. You grab your weapon and move for cover. Most people who have one of these type weapons for defense are specifically looking at the situation where you would have multiple home invaders. Better suited to out in the country and generally not what you want in an apartment. Folks who own these very typically see some type of civil unrest leading to an attack by several assailants at once. Some are your "Doomsday Prepper" types. Some are also your "take the government back" types. Personally, I see virtually no possibility of the dictitorial take over of government. But the civil unrest sceanrios are a very real possibility started over a variety of causes. (Including people trying to take the government back!) If you live in the country where a 30 minute arrival time for police is very common, the desire to have a bit more firepower than a six shot revolver is a very legitimate want. In the country, violent crime is usually less. However, because help is typically not just a minute or two away, you are a lot more vulnerable. There is a real difference in self protection needs between the urban and rural environments. I believe this is part of why the anti-gun crowd is far more likely to live in the urban environment. If you live in rural areas, there are good reasons for seeing things differently. Most rural folks tend to think pretty highly of guns. There are good reasons.

I'll just make one final note. I am not a right wing gun nut. I'm quite a Progressive. I favor a womans right to chose, I favor gays having a right to marry, I have no problems with minorities or the poor getting some help. I don't want God in schools or government because he was never intended to be there. I'm for universal healthcare, including readily available treatment for people like Lanza with serious mental problems. But I also see guns as a personal right too. I'm fine with logical, reasonable regulation if it does something to hinder criminal use without infringing on legitimate use. The problem here wasn't the guns but the sick individual. If he wasn't nuts it makes no difference how many guns he has, nobody dies.

Sorry, MrBurns,

Just like the NRA, your insults and bullying does not work anymore.

And 1NewDay,

You have a reasonable post, albeit too long for this forum, but why don't you forward it to the mothers and fathers of those children and teachers that were killed?

I don't think they would really care what the correct definition of an "assault" weapon is.

Hello folks, give our government an inch and they will take a mile. Our second amendment RIGHT is guaranteed for now unless we allow something ridiculous to be implemented like an Executive Order "authorizing" the ban of guns. We as citizens need to be diligent when it comes to our government.

And why you ask should we be concerned about having our second amendment right taken away, how about to fight against a police state!

We have lost most of our civil liberties through the passage of the Patriot Act, Foreign Investigation and Surveillance Act (FISA) and National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) and the new National Defense Resources Preparedness (NDRP)! They have authorized the use of spy drones in American skies! You can be surveilled by any number of Federal agencies, have your phone and computer tapped, bank, medical, and private records accessed! You can be arrested without gaining access to an attorney or a trial. We are molested at the airports or radiated for “security”. And just recently added National Defense Resources Preparedness (NDRP) which comes on the heels of NDAA. This Executive Order allows the government to take pretty much whatever it wants including crops, farm equipment, vehicles, boats, aircraft and fuel to “prepare” for the national defense. This includes making people work for free. You think I’m kidding about the free labor? Here’s a line straight from the EO that says, “. . . to employ persons of outstanding experience and ability without compensation. . .” This is authorized even in peace time!

Give them an inch and they won't have to kick in the door as we will be the ones who have opened it for them.

silverton-2953905

I have owned a gun and enjoy target shooting, but I don't need or want an assault weapon. Only the police and military need those.

It's nice for you that you don't think you need an "assault" weapon, but how is that justification for banning them for people that do want them?

Silverton,

Where is any of your proof. We have provided countless proof. You provide ignorant fear, and the use of a tragedy to promote your stupid agenda. You're pathetic.

And the reason we don't live like in the middle east, is because of the separation of Church and State in our secular society. Otherwise we'd still be burning people alive or stoning them to death like we did back when the church had its way. There was a reason why the Founding Fathers didn't want the Church affecting policy, afterall, they didn't just do it for the heck of it.

And there is a reason that the same founding fathers believed in the right to bear arms. Go ahead, hit me with the "it's outdated" "doesn't apply to the 21st century". Well maybe trying to limit God's authority is a little "outdated".

Praise God not politicians.

Oh the Assaulters.

They are PISSED

The country drives by half-mast Amercan Flags, watches tiny coffins being wheeled into churches, and hears that teachers and parents can't go back into that bloodied schoool.

But the moronic, juvenile THRILL of popping off a semi-automatic gun keeps the "bang-bang shoot em ups" posting nonsense.

I pray our tears and common sense over-ride your whining.

Any action taken as a response to the recent shooting should, in my opinion, be a response that should have an impact on the undesirable actions of a mentally deranged person. While gun control, ammo control, etc may very well be a pressing issue in our nation and the world and need to be addressed, I'm sure there are many other issues such as drug laws, pornography, hunger, and a multitude of others that need to be addressed also. But will addressing any of those issues solve the current problem? I'm not sure that ANY of them will!

When has a lack of guns EVER stopped someone or a group of someones from killing others when they decide to do so? The very first mass murderer in the U S, back in 1780, didn't shoot anyone. He bludgeoned two adults to death and burned down the house around three children. Fire control laws, anyone? Club laws?

Would gun control laws have stopped Timothy McVeigh? How many folks did he shoot? Jeffrey Dahmer? Would it have precluded 9/11? Teachers, administrators, and/or security guards armed and trained to use firearms COULD have at least lessened the impact of the current situation. How many lives would have been saved had the (yes, heroic, although misplaced heroism) principal been trained and armed to actually handle the situation?

Mass murderers simply do not start their rampages where people can shoot back. Getting killed before they can kill others ruins all their plans.

First of all @madinCT, I would like to offer my sincerest condolances to your entire community after such an unspeakable tragedy. I can only imagine how much most of this arguing and political mumbo jumbo can frustrate such an emotionally broken communtiy and hinder the healing process. Saying that though I must also interject that it IS a God thing. God did NOT cause this sick crime but God will use it to heal many and bring them closer to Him. The actions of the gunman only magnifys just how real and prevelent evil is in our society and in our world because we have turned from Him.
I totally agree with @shinelight, our nation is running ourselves to destruction, our founding fathers did intend for our country to have religious freedom, and that freedom was that the government didn't control the church they came from a country where the government was tyrannical running the church. The puritans that came to this nation and helped our fore fathers build it built this nation to bring glory to God, Washington himself knew that it was by God's blessing they had been protected and won the war against england, he stated that the purpose of our nation was to bring glory and praise to God. He also stated that he knew that if we ever turned from God our blessings would fade.....

We are now in a time where shootings are so common that it takes someone so corrupt and kills children to even get us thinking. I want to reassure all our nation that God is still here, but as a good father He has allowed punishment on His children for the sin they've committed and allowed. He is the ultimate comfort to all who seek Him!!(Deuteronomy 4:29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.I encourage our nation to dust off their Bibles and take in the love of God. I would also challenge those that give the Word no credibility to flip to Romans 1:18-32 .God’s Anger at Sin
18But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.i 19They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.21Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. 22Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. 23And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.
24So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
28Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. 29Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. 31They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. 32They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.-(new living translation)

This passage describes the nation of Israel after they turned from God and He warns them, and when they ignore His call He allows them to destroy themselves. If you can't see the resemblance to our nation I pray God will help soften your heart and remove the blindfold from you. -God Bless

"Compromise now Comment collapsed by the community

Great Idea Prez,

Rush into this so you can claim a victory then sweep it under the Bus with our Healthcare system, Massive deficits and evergrowing dependence on China"

Explain to me what part of any compromise the republicans have come up with. So far..the only thing they have pushed for is their own ideas..and then back away from them. The only agenda they go for is their own and nothing less. It would not hurt my feelings to see all millionaires kicked out of congress. Mybe then we could get a congress that works for us all.

I clearly remember OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING....clearly! All you are asking for is for those that want to do this, to do it with an even bigger BANG. WTF is your problem Obama....next headline from Obama: Obama demands respect, Obama is pissed you have any freedom at all...he cant handle people being free...it not how he operates, he only knows that loyalty is bought...not given.

1NewDay

Likewise, putting a bunch of cosmetic parts on a semi-auto rifle doesn't make it a military assault weapon

Actually it is the addition of cosmetic parts that classifies it as an "assault weapon" as defined by the government. Technically it may not be but for the purposes of this conversation, the banning of weapon by said government, the government definition would apply.

RI Mom,

There you go again. Fear and ignorance is all you have.

Go to http://washingtonexaminer.com/biden-2008-if-obama-tries-to-fool-with-my-beretta-hes-got-a-problem/article/2516400#.UNJCz2_AfTp

It's kind of funny that he chose Biden to head this up.

It's not about the lack of your God in our culture. Most Americans identify as Christian. They also have their own schools. Please don't make this about indoctrinating and disciplining more children into your faith.

This isn't only about guns either, however, keeping them secure and out of the hands of an at-risk population is crucial. An improved background check process is necessary.

The real issue is about mental health. This is the most difficult task at hand in part because most of us will go through times in our lives where a diagnosis could apply. Some individuals live with chronic forms of illness while others improve substantially, where they are no longer considered afflicted (not ignoring the possibility of future relapse). Variables that are considered include genetics/family history, trauma, brain injury, drug abuse, neurological imbalance, self concept, and ability to cope. While I think the first step is to hike funding for new and existing treatment facilities as well as pay for employees in the field, it must be understood that mental health is not just important for the terminally ill. Most of us can use help throughout our lives. THIS point is the key to limiting the number of tragedies we see occurring today.

The NRA is in no way responsible for the killings at Sandy Hook School.... How ever what they are responsible for is keeping the dogs at bey at our borders.... And keeping our law enforcement officers safe.... And lets not forget our brave soldiers who may face many dangers daily.... What we need is to provide our children with unarmed guards at all American Schools across the USA.... They have no problems doing this with fully armed guards for government employees at government offices here in the USA but still more violence happens in our schools due to the sheer numbers of people attending our schools.... Our children deserve to be safe at all cost....

The real issue is not about the mentally ill.

The real issue is about the mentally ill having access to automatic and semi-automatic assault weapons.

ivan, NC

. It would not hurt my feelings to see all millionaires kicked out of congress.

And keep the other millionaires?? You're pathetic.

The guns used in this terrible tragedy were not purchased by the shooter. This makes the argument for tougher background checks irrelevant. And for those throwing around the term "assault rifle", what makes a semi-automatic rifle an assault rifle?

silverton

That is part of it, as i described. Why this is difficult is because mental illness is often not as clear cut as it sounds. I thought I had explained that well.

In addition to weapons, panel led by Vice President Joe Biden will address mental health services and violence in popular culture.

Well, I certainly hope crazy Joe addresses this...

Way to go ACLU!!

Here’s a fact you might not know – Connecticut is one of only SIX states in the U.S. that doesn’t have a type of “assisted outpatient treatment” (AOT) law (sometimes referred to as “involuntary outpatient treatment”).There’s no one standard for these types of laws, but (roughly speaking) these are laws that allow for people with mental illness to be forcibly treated BEFORE they commit a serious crime. Whereas previous legal standards held that the mentally ill cannot be institutionalized or medicated until they harm someone or themselves, or until they express an immediate intent to do so, AOT laws (again, roughly speaking) allow forpreventative institutionalization or forced medication (I highly recommend reading the data cited in the link I provided in this paragraph, especially regarding what is known as “first episode psychosis”).

AOT laws vary state-by-state, and often bear the name of a person murdered by an untreated mentally ill person (“Kendra’s Law” in New York, “Laura’s Law” in California, etc.).

Earlier this year, Connecticut considered passing an AOT law (and a weak one, at that), and it failed, due toprotests from “civil liberties” groups.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2012/JUDdata/Tmy/2012SB-00452-R000329-David%20McGuire-%20ACLU-TMY.PDF

and this...

Obama administration let school security funds lapse…
(Washington Guardian) – Beneath the expressions of grief, sorrow and disbelief over the Connecticut school massacre lies an uneasy truth in Washington: over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly let federal funding for several key school security programs lapse in the name of budget savings.

Government officials told the Washington Guardian on Friday night that two Justice Department programs that had provided more than $200 million to schools for training, security equipment and police resources over the last decade weren't renewed in 2011 and 2012, and that a separate program that provided $800 million to put police officers inside the schools was ended a few years earlier.

Meanwhile, the administration eliminated funding in 2011-12 for a separate Education Department program that gave money to schools to prepare for mass tragedies, the officials said.

Some liberal groups have increasingly voiced concerns about the increased spending on police and security at schools. For instance, the Justice Policy Institute, a think tank, wrote a report in 2011 entitled "Education Under Arrest" that concluded that "schools do not need school resource officers to be safe."

White House officials did not return repeated calls and emails Friday night seeking comment on the administration's rationale for letting the programs lapse.

http://www.washingtonguardian.com/washingtons-school-security-failure

the U.S . needs "RETARD CONTROL" not gun control , the mentally unstable need to be controlled, not let out to roam the streets !!!!

How about we find out who REALLY murdered those children and teachers at Sandy Hook, and at that movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, before we make any concrete changes to our freedoms. I, for one, have had about enough of self-serving reactionary-ism and that is all this move by Obama is. I refuse to allow my thoughts or feelings to be dictated to me by a few alleged murderous madmen allegedly using high-powered firearms and I would appreciate it if my government adopted that same frame of mind. None of you on here seem the least bit concerned about who the mysterious, camouflage clad man is who was found lurking in the woods outside of the school immediately after the murders, whose only comment was, "I didn't do it.". Nor do any of you seem to care about the LIBOR bank rate fixing scandal connection between the fathers of the alleged Aurora shooter and the alleged Sandy Hook shooter. Nor is anyone asking about the oh so too coincidental mention of Sandy Hook, Aurora and LIBOR in the recently released to DVD movie, "The Dark Knight Rises". Anyone?!? ANYONE?!? Personally I think the murdered innocents deserve to have us discover the truth of their deaths before we make any determination as to what to do about them.

Hey Mr. Biden, while you're under the bus you just got thrown off

, please say 'hi' to everyone else Obama blames for failure......HA HA...what a joke, some idiot in China just stabbed 22 poor children WITH A KNIFE.

Get a clue......

Oh, and when you die, you don't find angels or demons.

I don't know if you may have had a near death experience and if you are speaking from that, but one of my good friends had a young son who died of cancer several years ago. In his last words as he was gasping for breath, granted he did not say anything about angels or demons; but he said that he saw Jesus. You cannot say that this was due to his brain shutting down from lack of oxygen because he was receiving oxygen and immediately after he said this he was placed on a ventilator and was kept oxygenated for a while after that though he never regained consciousness-nor was he delirious at the time. (I suppose you could argue that technically he didn't die at that moment.) This isn't some legend or story. This was my friend and her son, who attended school with my daughter. I don't know what anyone else would see when they die, and people are free to believe what they will about God or Jesus or anything else-I only know what my friend told me, and I can't imagine she would lie about the death of her son. Forgive me for going off topic.

MrBurns

RI Mom,

There you go again. Fear and ignorance is all you have.

• 1

• !

#1.234 - Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:43 PM

Make your defense of why you need an un-locked semi-automatic in your home.

The NRA advises against locking up your weapons at home.... so what do you practice shooting .... the stove?

Do all semi-automatic weapons owners live in high crime neighborhoods where they are forced to take the law into their own hands?

Or...do you need a semi-automatic because you are a lousy shot when hunting a deer?

These semi-automatics are EXPENSIVE. So is it a bragging thing?

What do you think about when you drive by all the American flags at half-mast?

Do you ever think about the parents, the siblings, the neighbors, the relatives, the lovers, the friends, ....the ones who visit a cemetary after everyone else has forgotten about Virginia Tech, Columbine, Tucson, Colorado...Newtown?

Tell me... because you seem so self-centered about owning a semi-automatic gun, that there MUST be a good reason.

ban lawn mower blades...and pass the mustard biscuits...hhhymmmm huhhh...

Gabriel-1934044

shinelight, God is being thrown out of everything. What can the Church actually do?

Not much really. You cant force people to accept Christ or lead Christian lives. The greatest nations of our past have crumbled. America is no different, and it will topple one day as well. As time goes on and the government is taking God out of everything , and people dismiss it from their lives, you will see this country decay even more yet. Just as it is now. Our founding fathers seen the necessity of a society with God in it. No where did I say the government is to force religion, but it was always encouraged to have people in office with moral values that of God. Just like John Jay said, our first Supreme Justice, that we should vote for people who are Christians.

I wish there was land some where that we can populate again with Americans who had the same intentions as our founding fathers. I would much rather live in their time, than this time.

You Republican/Teabaggers that are upset about gun control talks are saying that Mental Health is the culprit, and needs to be addressed instead... YOU are the same people who OPPOSE a national healthcare plan, which would help to address mental health issues.

You are also the same people who would be cursing the President for not doing enough if it had been YOUR children who were senselessly murdered!!

RI Mom.

I can see youve never been in combat. The 2nd amendment was never about hunting. It was about defending this country against enemies foreign and domestic. Read this and try to understand:

"A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."

George Washington

@Marmaduke. Refer to my comment to shinelight. I'm sorry, but just by SAYING that we should vote for people who are christian, proves your wish to force it on other. Policy should NEVER be based off religion. Also @seen too much, I do not claim that I know what happens after we die, but I'm pretty sure that it's much more likely humans (including your friend's son) have just lied. That seems like a really low class to say, but it's true! Also, I'm sorry if I come off as very rude.

founding fathers didn't have heat and air...or heath care unless you like leeches and blood letting...and t.v. the internet or cheetos....but they had mustard biscuits...

Justoneguy,

That is true. Then again, all of the kids in China lived. Probably not the most effective argument.

Randy-3238977

You Republican/Teabaggers that are upset about gun control talks are saying that Mental Health is the culprit, and needs to be addressed instead... YOU are the same people who OPPOSE a national healthcare plan, which would help to address mental health issues.

Cutting off your hand takes care of a hangnail too but that doesn't mean it makes any sense. Do you actually believe some "National" plan put in place by the government is the only possible solution?? And if so please explain why you have so much confidence in a group of people less trustworthy than used car salesmen.

Maybe RImom has forgotten about the hundreds of thousand that are in graves from defending her freedom with a gun.. Where is your outrage that the powers that be have ignored gangs for so long.. Or that booze and cell phones kill way more people..

So many people have not one single clue about the Constitution and if the founding fathers were around today they would have been locked up in Guantanamo by the Communist organizer in the White House.. The federal propaganda machine has made Militia a bad word when in fact the Constitution demands it.. How un-American can you get? are you pissing on the Constitution? read the document it is what this country was founded on not the welfare enrollment form.. Their reasoning is that stuff is old fashion, freedom old fashion? I am getting sick.. Don't they remember all the people who died for freedom?? Do they really want that fight again??

That headline is the best joke I've heard this month! And putting Jumpin' Joe in charge of it? Why don't we just all shoot ourselves and let East Asia take over the world?

A blue-ribbon panel in Washington can't even decide when the first meeting will be by January. Who is Oblameo kidding? And developing any kind of consensus in anything less than 6 months is totally the power of positive thinking.

What is Oblameo going to do: kick his heels, castigate Congress some more, beat his wife? If he gets anything in the next 4 years, he should be grateful. Otherwise, he really will go down in history as the most ineffectual president seen in this once-great land of ours.

Way to go Joe, yeah, he'll get r done! Right! I was wondering how is it that liberals want their abortions and want gun control too? Isn't one defeating the purpose of the other?

Great here we go capitalizing on a crisis at the expense of taking away freedoms which have cost millions of lives to fight for over the decades. I am sure this government grab will include a plethora of fees to pad their wallets with. There is absolutely no/none/nada to do here with any ban of any sort that will keep these things from happening when someone is bent on committing such an atrocity. It is simply the leftists taking the opportunity to force people to live by their rules and irrational thinking. Let's focus on magazine capacities and weapon types instead of the people that do these things. And we wonder why our country is going backwards and gridlock grips our politics.... You couldn't round up a bigger group of idiots if you did a national test.

America has been at this place in her spiritual history before. Though 52 of the 55 signers of our Declaration of Independence were strong orthodox Christians, by the late part of that century, our colleges were already secularizing and turning against God. John Jay, our first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, despaired that the nation had turned its back on God so much that he thought Christianity would never be revived again. Then came a spiritual awakening that restored a move of faith throughout the land. John Jay was too quick to say America could not come back.

Again the nation gradually lost its compass and became even more Godless. Another series of awakenings occurred, however. They were even stronger than those at the turn of the century. These awakenings (lumped together by some as The Second Great Awakening) caused businesses throughout downtown New York City to shut down once a week at mid-day for prayer meetings! This awakening spread like wildfire across the nation and so impacted our citizenry that its affect lasted for almost 100 years, impacting all arenas of life, from churches, to businesses, to education, to families. It set in motion great social changes and brought the end to slavery.

We now see another great time of departure from the God of the Bible in our land. Our president has even declared that we are no longer a Christian nation. Viewing things with the human eye, he seems to have an argument, as we look at what has happened to our society in recent years. Although, like John Jay, we are now tempted to give up and say that we just can't see a way back to God for our nation, we must believe that, with God, all things are possible! He can make a way were there is no way for America! The giants are not too large. Although we may face great difficulties ahead, we must be strong and very courageous in our faith. Continue to pray, believe and act out Biblical faith, hope and love. God can change this nation once more.

Where is your outrage that the powers that be have ignored gangs for so long..

Gangs shooting each other just doesn't seem the same as 20 kindergarteners getting slaughtered somehow.

Or that booze and cell phones kill way more people

drinking and driving is illegal. So are cell phones and driving in many cities.

Great here we go capitalizing on a crisis at the expense of taking away freedoms which have cost millions of lives to fight for over the decades....

That's exactly how I felt when they started wire tapping after 9/11.

I was wondering how is it that liberals want their abortions and want gun control too? Isn't one defeating the purpose of the other?

No. In fact, they are completely unrelated.

looks like the same joe who once argued with a peanut...and lost...obama is so use to disappointment...

Thank God he didn't talk about guns in the bible..

VP Biden has nothing to prove to America. He has been an exemplary statesman over the last forty years.

I bet those of you making fun of him have never done one thing to contribute to the love of your country.

You selfishly love yourselves and could not care less about the welfare of the nation or anybody else. All of this bluster and boasting and swaggering, talking about your big guns and how important they are in case the BIG BAD government tries to take over the country. Sound like a bunch of paranoid sissies to me.

LOL

Getmadstaymad

1.252

Who are YOU combatting?

Where I live, we have police, National Guard, Army, Navy, Marine Corp, Coast Guard, State Police.....heck...we've been enjoying the 21st C. for well over a decade.

And..we believe in the 2nd Amendment.

So guns are OK..if treated with respect, and registered .....

but that bizarre reference to George Washinton does NOTHING to warrant a semi-automatic.

So...what is your point? Because you make absolutely no sense.

.

.

.

.

and

Roadrunner0

1.257

HUH?

Pissing on the Constitution?

WHERE Does the Constitution require YOU to carry a semi-automatic gun?

This is perfect for obama, he needed to give idiot joe biden a fools errand to keep him busy.

Sounds like you still have sour grapes over the election you guys lost, Worm meat.

Sure didn't take much for our VP to make Paul Ryan look foolish in the debate.

LOL

Stupidity is at its best obviously in this forum, reading some of the postings. Obviously mental health is an issue (so many posters here need a psychologist, but I think Newsvine beats the cost of going to one. Banning guns? Impossible when the weapons industry employs so many people and provides revenues at astronomical levels. Identifying mental health threats? Who can make a determination when a 'normal' person will reach a breaking point and go postal? The problem is not the assault weapons, people in their sane mind will not use the weapons for other purpose. And trying to blame the gun issue on a case as this one (where the guy did not purchase the weapons) is ridiculous.

What scares me though is the fact that those weapons desgined for civilian use are not fully automatic, but a kit to retrofit the weapon to automatic can be easily bought over the internet without questions asked, or that ammo can be bought that easily. That is what we need to control, not whether law abiding individuals can or can't purchase weapons.

In a particular note, Blubal, there is a big difference between an abortion and another person going on a shooting rampage. The abortion is something personal done by one individual who will affect that individual alone, being out of control on gun violence creates much more damage, so comparing one to the other I think is completely wrong.

If only criminals owed guns I'd be a happy camper.

Increased federal revenues for counseling services in our public schools.

silverton-2953905

VP Biden has nothing to prove to America. He has been an exemplary statesman over the last forty years.

I bet those of you making fun of him have never done one thing to contribute to the love of your country

Bidens' an idiot pawn and I'm a Marine Corps Vet.....nuff said.....

Just one guy: Let's see... He holds the second most powerful position in the nation, you hold what?

justoneguy,

VP Biden has served his country over 40 years as an exemplary public servant and has never dissed the military. How many years did you serve as a Marine, and why are you dissing our VP who has served so well? You don't get to his position by being an "idiot" as you say.

And you sound like you've got some mental issues yourself that might need medical evaluation. Hope you can get some help before you go off the deep end, too.

@Marchant

The United States needs Gun Control. Buying a gun/automatic rifles now is like going to the grocery store and picking up a Gallon of Milk. We need someone who is savvy, and can produce results.

You can't be serious? Where in the world can you buy automatic rifles easily? Automatic weapons are defined as Class 3 weapons that are VERY difficult to get and extremely expensive. Like $10,000+. Not only that, you have to get approval from the ATF as well.

Still wonder why logical gun legislation hasn't been passed? It's because people like you that know nothing about what they are trying to ban have been hurting their own cause. By all means, keep trying to ban assault weapons. Since a semi-automatic AR-15 (1 bullet per trigger pull) is not an assault weapon, it will be unaffected by such a ban.

@RImom

Do you ever think about the parents, the siblings, the neighbors, the relatives, the lovers, the friends, ....the ones who visit a cemetary after everyone else has forgotten about Virginia Tech, Columbine, Tucson, Colorado...Newtown?

Tell me... because you seem so self-centered about owning a semi-automatic gun, that there MUST be a good reason.

though I admit I have no immediate ties to tragedies here in CO, based on interviews i've seen and personal testimonies of people, a lot of them realize that if someone would've been carrying, could've stopped the carnage sooner. nothing is 100% but outlawing any gun makes the government have to pick and choose and really as you said the semi auto just costs more and fires a little faster, any gun would do the same damage in the wrong hands.

taking guns because of negligent and often sick psychotic people is like banning cars because of negligent and drunk drivers, the responsible owners far out weigh the nuts. and plus the nuts and criminals usually aren't the legal owners of said firearms.

Kinda funny how Biden got pulled out of a closet when Obama "promised" to solve the shooting issues huh?

C'mon you die hard supporters....just admit it.

Anytime the Bozobama demands ANYTHING, he simply needs to be ignored.

Mere gun control is not the answer to cure the woes of America. We are sick and dying in spirit, soul and body.

TRANSLATED: Keep your hands off my guns. Jesus supports the NRA.

BS and typical.

Yet another wacko goes on a shooting rampage, and what is the result? Every gun nut in America goes online to whine about their precious "rights" being infringed.

I guess in your minds, school children don't have any rights? Do you really want to live this way, with ever more gruesome and deadly incidents happening with increasing frequency in movie theaters, malls, and schools?

You really want to accept this as the status quo? If so, take a look in the mirror and you will see the cause of this out-of-control gun violence.

Please STFU about Nancy Lanza and her 'responsible' gun ownership! Twenty-eight people are dead because Nancy Lanza was a gun nut. If you have guns in your house, think about that.

I am a Christian who reads Holy Scripture, prays, goes to church, receives Holy Communion, holds the Cross as the central reality of life, and the Resurrection as the center of my faith.

In no place in the New Testament is violence advocated. There is no possible mix of "God and Guns."

When St. Peter cut off the ear of the soldier with a sword, Jesus told him to put up his sword, and Jesus did the miracle of reattaching the soldier's ear. That was when the soldiers were in the process of arresting Him. Jesus said that He came not to bring peace, but the sword, but that was never intended to cause violence, but to point out that there would be a division between people because of their faith.

And here it is. I do not consider anybody to be faithful, hopeful, or loving who advocates assault weapons or handguns. This is a serious division in faith. The murder or accidental death of thousands of Americans, especially women and children, is caused by guns in homes that are there for "protection" of a family. More have died of gun violence in America than in the wars of Iraq and Afghanistan. We take the example of a mass shooting in Connecticut, but there are many smaller shootings and also near misses all the time, and many of these include children "accidently" hit in a drive-by shooting, or playing with an unlocked gun they find.

President Obama has, up to now, allowed the gun lobby, mostly gun manufacturers not responsible gun owners, to keep him silent on the issue of the yearly mass murder that America experiences. No, he is not using the Connecticut incident to push his agenda, but he is finally acknowledging that he had allowed himself to be pushed too far to the right by those whose agenda is to destroy America with guns.

Just so you know 50 million gun owners did NOT kill anybody today...............

silverton-2953905

You don't get to his position by being an "idiot" as you say.

Exactly! You get into that position because OTHER people are idiots and vote for a babbling moron.

@kaybeetoys

I guess in your minds, school children don't have any rights?

No, it's just that here in America one persons rights don't trump anothers. It's that pesky little Constitution that liberals like to ignore when it doesn't suit their purpose.

Backcountry, you support the 'right' of an individual to own an assault weapon, when such weapon is not necessary for self defense and cannot be used to hunt.

Unless you're hunting little children who were corned in a classroom and slaughtered.

Don't talk to us about your rights. You're alive, aren't you?

Kaybee: Untrue. The AR-15 was used by several store owners during the LA riots to protect their stores and families. Regardless, at what point do YOU decide is enough bullets a gun can hold. 15? 10? 8? 4? Or do you prefer the Barney Fife rule where you can have a gun but it can't be loaded and you can carry one bullet in your pocket?

You see liberals don't want guns - period. Forget the pesky Constitution. But liberals are smart enough to know they can't get guns banned so they suggest "reasonable" accommodations. Who in their right mind needs 25 bullets!! Right? So you get a "ban" to 10 bullets is the maximum it can hold.

But you KNOW there will be another shooting SOMEWHERE!! So liberals will yell and scream that 10 bullets is too much!! That needs to be reduced to 6 bullets - that is reasonable right?

But you KNOW there will be another shooting SOMEWHERE!! So liberals will yell and scream that 6 bullets is too much!! Guns should not be loaded and a bullet must be kept in your pocket. That way if a "crazy" person gets a hold of the gun by the time he shoots the ONE bullet and must reload he can be tackled. SEE HOW WE SAVED SO MANY LIVES!!

You see it is impossible to have a reasonable conversation with a liberal. I think many could get on board with a reduced magazine size IF we felt liberals were truly pleased with that compromise. But liberals WON'T be. They try to take rights and more rights and more rights and more rights until we have no rights left. Sorry it won't happen.

BTW, 50 million gun owners did NOT kill anybody today.............

Our govt allows millions of illegal immigrants to wander around our country and than waits until they hurt or kill an American before they will deport them.

Illegal immigrants kill far more Americans than guns do, so why isn't there a task force set up to have the illegals deported?

How many children are molested. raped and killed by illegal immigrants?....FAR MORE than these recent shootings. Where is the outrage about THAT?!! Look up Jimmy Ryce.

Amen ProBusiness, This is just a prelude to what the communist are going to do, I guess you bleeding heart liberals are to stupid to even realize that we have communist in our congress and senate. The True Americans had better wake up and open theri eyes.

Britain is a gun free nation, its citizens are not allowed to have guns but their violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed. Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa – widely considered one of the world’s most dangerous countries.

The figures comes on the day new Home Secretary Alan Johnson makes his first major speech on crime, promising to be tough on loutish behaviour.

The Tories said Labour had presided over a decade of spiralling violence.

In the decade following the party’s election in 1997, the number of recorded violent attacks soared by 77 per cent to 1.158million – or more than two every minute.

The figures, compiled from reports released by the European Commission and United Nations, also show:

Elizabeth: I am usually very cordial - but you can go to hell.

How DARE you tell me I am NOT a Christian because I am a gun owner and believe it is a right of ours supplied by the Constitution. I am a faithful Christian, read the bible, and pray daily.

But somehow YOU seem to be the keeper of God's word and YOU get to decide that God does not consider me a Christian because I own a gun?

If you want to discuss who is NOT the Christian it is you. Because Christians are taught to forgive. Christians are taught to protect our children since they are our future. And if someone comes to my door threatening to do harm to my wife and children I will protect my family. THAT is the christian god-fearing thing to do and to state I am NOT a Christian because I don't believe the government should take away the 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms is appalling.

Your comment is about as non-Christian as you can get and nothing short of an apology from you is expected.

But you KNOW there will be another shooting SOMEWHERE!! So liberals will yell and scream that 10 bullets is too much!! That needs to be reduced to 6 bullets - that is reasonable right?

Heck, why stop at assault weapons, Probusiness? The government should allow rocket launchers! And why shouldn't we all have nuclear weapons?

Your argument is just plain illogical. You must support the shooting of innocent children if you believe we can't restrict access to assault weapons.

You either want the situation to change or you want to keep the status quo.

It's one or the other. Which way do you want to go?

Thank you kaybeetoys for watching out for our safety....why don't you support deporting the 15+ million illegal immigrants that are killing about 24,000 Americans annually, through DUI's, crimes, etc. They molest, rape and kill American school children. Where is your outrage?

There was an illegal immigrant cutting people's heads off with a machete in S FL. Remember Jimmy Ryce?

Stop blaming the guns for the actions of the people. And stop overfeeding your overweight child....you are killing her.

The funniest thing I have read in this forum is when ProBusiness told Elizabeth that he "is a Christian and she can go to hell."

LOL

(I'm a professing Christian, too, btw)

Thanks for your concern, jw...I don't have an overweight child. Why are you changing the subject? If you don't want to discuss gun violence, what are you doing here?

You're right, silverton, but what else can you expect from someone who apparently has never looked into a mirror in his entire life? Ya gotta just shake your head at the irony.

Hello folks, a Sandy Hook parent makes a plea to you. See how this tragic event spurns this reaction just one day after the event. Now put yourself in his shoes, wouldn’t you react the same way?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=urrRcgB581w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8nTZKpmtlQ&feature=player_embedded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdCTqY8TYIo

@kaybeetoys

Backcountry, you support the 'right' of an individual to own an assault weapon, when such weapon is not necessary for self defense and cannot be used to hunt.

Not necessary?? Is that the criteria we shoule use to decide what people can and can't have?? Because if so I have a looong list of things that are "not necessary" but do a whole lot of harm. Also, would you want a republican to decide what is or is not necessary for YOU? Because you do realize that at some point there will be another one in the WH?

And finally, of course they can be used to hunt. Who on Earth told you they couldn't? They are excellent rifles for varmint hunting, with a 5 round magazine they are legal for big game hunting, and they are one of the better choices for a range rifle as the high rate of fire allows you to shoot at hard to hit, moving predators. Just because they are "not necessary" in YOUR tiny little world don't assume they aren't a legitimate tool for other people.

Hello folks, Problem – Reaction – Solution. As Rahm Emanuel has said “You never let a serious crisis go to waste.”

Problem – Children and teachers murdered at school by a person on legal pathogenic Big Pharma drugs with a gun.

Reaction – Community and citizenry are horrified and fearful. They are “reminded” by their government “why they are needed” and beg government to intervene.

Solution – Government creates taskforce to provide pre-emptive recommendations.

1. Repeal or alter citizen’s second amendment rights.
2. Remove guns from its citizenry.
3. Implement and install metal detectors at all schools.
4. Implement and install surveillance cameras in all schools and class rooms.
5. Require children to have a RFID tracking chip installed.

If you think this is farfetched how do you think our government has been getting away with taking our country to a different war every year and allowing the banksters to fleece us. What was once considered conspiracy is now reality, there are no coincidences! Wake up people!

TrustVerify,

You are really scaring us all now.

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CynicalPeace

@Marmaduke. Refer to my comment to shinelight. I'm sorry, but just by SAYING that we should vote for people who are christian, proves your wish to force it on other. Policy should NEVER be based off religion. Also @seen too much, I do not claim that I know what happens after we die, but I'm pretty sure that it's much more likely humans (including your friend's son) have just lied. That seems like a really low class to say, but it's true! Also, I'm sorry if I come off as very rude.

It isnt trying to force anything on anyone. No one is forcing any religion on you. Policy is a result of your morality and belief system. Our founding fathers were very much into their religious beliefs. They freely expressed it. Our society, our courts, it was a part of life. Now look at society, it slowly is decaying and winding down. We may not see it in our time, but I can assure you, this america will fall.

Our FIrst ammendment allows us to choose and freely express our religious rights and freedom, not to have them taken away from us.

Dumb question:

Not counting U.S. military and law enforcement firearms, there are about 89 civilian guns for every 100 people in this country.

...Why?

In the U.S. there are actually more stores selling guns and ammo than groceries.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/guns-america-statistical/story?id=17939758#.UNPG8nfhfTo

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/dec/17/how-many-guns-us

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/transparency.jpeg

http://www.atf.gov/statistics/

Here is a great video about why many of us want to keep our guns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0R3uLTnzs60