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Updated 10:48 a.m. - President Barack Obama would veto House Republicans' "Plan B" legislation should it make its way to the White House, a top administration spokesman said Wednesday.
President Barack Obama and House Speaker John Boehner may be the closest they've ever been to a fiscal cliff deal. The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd reports.
White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer said in a statement that the GOP backup proposal -- which would preserve existing tax rates on income less than $1 million past the end of this year -- "does not meet the test of balance, and the president would veto the legislation in the unlikely event of its passage."
House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, unveiled the "Plan B" proposal on Tuesday amid stalled talks with Obama toward resolving the combination of automatic tax hikes and spending cuts set to take place on Jan. 1 -- the so-called fiscal cliff.
The proposal would allow tax rates rise on income over $1 million, matching a previous Democratic proposal earlier this year. The administration, however, has set a lower threshold ($400,000 per year) at which it believes taxes should be allowed to rise. Moreover, the administration has argued for a more comprehensive agreement that includes spending cuts and entitlement reforms, but also new spending projects and an extension of unemployment insurance.
Kevin Lamarque / Reuters
U.S. President Barack Obama walks back to the Oval Office of the White House in Washington December 18, 2012.
"The congressional Republican 'Plan B' legislation continues large tax cuts for the very wealthiest individuals - on average, millionaires would see a tax break of $50,000 - while eliminating tax cuts that 25 million students and families struggling to make ends meet depend on and ending critical incentives for our nation’s businesses," Pfeiffer said.
Republicans, as of now, plan to move forward with a set of twin votes on Thursday, one to maintain existing tax rates for those earning less than $250,000 per year (Obama's existing proposal) and the GOP "Plan B" alternative. Boehner. who is continuing to negotiate a broader deal with Obama, will likely have to pass his backup plan only with Republican support -- and even then, conservatives who are leery of raising any taxes at all may defect.
"The president urges the Republican leadership to work with us to resolve remaining differences and find a reasonable solution to this situation today instead of engaging in political exercises that increase the possibility that taxes go up on every American," Pfeiffer wrote.
"The White House’s opposition to a back-up plan to ensure taxes don’t rise on American families is growing more bizarre and irrational by the day," said Boehner spokesman Brendan Buck in response. "Republicans have always said a broader, ‘balanced’ plan is the ideal solution, and we have put one forward. In the absence of a ‘balanced’ solution from the President, however, we must act to stop taxes from rising across the board in 12 days. If Democrats disapprove of this bill, then there is a simple solution: amend it in the Senate and send it back to the House."
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Veto Plan Boehner - or Plan B and Stand up for the middle class -
Thanks, President Obama - Time Magazine Person of the Year
Thanks, we all had fun to watch you knock out Mitt in the first round. It's a good show.
Yes We Can
P.S.: Veto - latin & ancient roman origin - meaning 'I shall object'.
Tell this to the mouse speaker: I Object, Your Boner!
Plan B as in Speaker Boner, is actually short for more republican Bull$h!t.
If King Obama can't reach a compromise with Prince Boehner, Congress is not doing their job if they don't send something to the White House. It is Christmas after all.
It's like watching two spoiled rich kids wrestle but neither one of them wants to muss their hair.
What I don't get is if Boehner proposes the same plan the Democrats put on the table several months ago, why would the Democrats balk today?
Fact is, the Left smells blood and are in the process of flip-flopping to get a bigger piece of the pie, rather than agree to what they claimed was a good thing less than 1 year ago. In their continued brilliance (not joking, because it is quite remarkable), they then spin it like the Right has done something wrong.
Gotta give it to the Dem's... They have some brilliant strategists on their team. Too bad it works to the detriment of the nation rather than the detriment of partisan politics!
AB-SO-FREAKIN'-LUTELY veto Plan B.
PLAN B From Outer Space!
Conceredone - I disagree, I think we need to break this gridlock that the Speaker of the House has on this country. Sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. Once that is done, then Congress can move forward, but until that time, gridlock is all you will see.
Either way, I am against any reduction is benefits for social security. It has enough money to be self solvent if the government would stop taking money out of it and they raise the cap to 100% on rich people instead of just their first 125k.
Big Surprise Here, Yea Right the Party of NO is never going to agree..... Mr President it is time to Sequester Congress, do not allow any House or Senate to go home until an agreement is reached..... Congress if you really want to cut expenses then start with your Pay & Benefits, after all it is very clear you all have not earned it.....
concernedone
What I don't get is if Boehner proposes the same plan the Democrats put on the table several months ago, why would the Democrats balk today?
==========
Better to put a little context on that bone.
Not all Democrats supported that position. I believe Schumer floated the idea arguing that $250K in NYC didn't get you much. It was not legislative written and/or passed by either Chamber, nor was it championed by the WH, so before you go with the "...same plan Democrats puts on the table several months ago.." line, make sure those ducks are in a row.
concernedone Fact is the Left smells blood
The republican/tea party has smelled blood from the time the President took the oath of office. Its interesting how your last statement of your post can work both ways. All one has to do is remove Dem's......... and put republican in its place than the truth comes out.
OHGuy - If the president HAD the power to sequester this congress, he would have to cancel his multi-multi million dollar family vacation in Hawaii (paid for by you and I, by the way).
I don't disagree with you. Staying put until the job is done should be the right course of action.
What I DO disagree with is Republican's are "never going to agree". I believe they will stick it out for the best compromise they can get, but both sides are playing that game. Neither side is guilty, and neither side is innocent. It is the game!
I hear alot about tax increases on the wealthy which I can understand, but I don't hear anything regarding spending cuts.
Plan B is the FIRST compromise EVER made by Bohner.. now since Obama ALREADY countered with 400million.. Bohner needs to come closer.. (700 million is the midway point ) but I don't expect Bohner to go below 750 million... after all.. WHY would he SPLIT the differnce.. that would be fair...
Amazing....he doesn't realize that we've had enough. Enough already! Enough!
concernedone - again, you're a LIAR. As has been explained over and over again - apparently your comprehension ability is lacking - we DO NOT pay for the First Family vacations. They pay for their lodging, food, and any incidentials they want. We pay - as we always have for every Frist Family - for airfare and security. When you continue to lie it just makes you look stupider!
Allen,
Working from your response, I'd like to ask a question... At what point did it become necessary to have 100% consensus in one's party to get anything done? What I mean is this... If 70% of dem's and 50% of rep's voted to pass a measure, it would pass - period. Who the heck cares if the dem's can't get 100% backing. Who the heck cares of Boehner can't get 100% republican backing. If we can work together and get a majority sufficient for passage, who cares if the extremists get squeezed? No one will ever be 100% pleased.
The alternative is gridlock.
Find the middle and work together!
Obama has come to the middle with his $400,000 proposal. The only thing stopping it is that it is not balanced. Boehner has come to the middle with his agreement to ANY tax increase. Both sides are showing a willingness to work together. It doesn't matter what you and I discuss on Newsvine, they WILL come to some form of deal that both sides will agree to, but neither one wins 100%.
All you and I can do is hope to promote our agenda over our opponent. I am trying to promote compromise and working together. Seems so many on here only want to promote partisanship and hatred...
Do you get my point?
Obozo has NO plan - the "rich" do not have enough money to cover the democrats irresponsible spending spree - the dems have run up more of a deficit in 3 years than Bush did in 8!! WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM NOT A REVENUE PROBLEM!!
Seeking, you really should not call anyone stupid. I have read a lot of your post and you might just qualify yourself!
dogs80 - I've read enough of yours to know I don't give a damn what YOU think!
You are wrong on this, even if it was right, then you would also have to say the same about Bush and every other Republican President, because they all take vacations.
You mean that same irresponsible spending spree you said nothing about when Bush was in office and had 2 unpaid wars while reducing taxes? How did you think we where going to pay for them?
Seeking - Does the First Family fly Delta, American... Who pays for that plane, and what carrier is used??? Who pays for the security that travels with them? Who pays for the overtime logged by island police? Who pays for the national security debriefing team that follows the president wherever he goes? Who pays for airspace security over the Hawaiian islands where BHO is staying?
I want you to be real specific and justify how you can call me a liar, and I want you to answer my questions about my points on this post...
Funny how the word balanced has become a new word for republicans. Before it was "our way or no way." Ya just got to love em. Happy Holidays
brenda1964 - no there you go believing Terry46 actually THINKS! Not one Republican cared about Bush spending like there were not limits and they didn't care about 2 wars - after all, it kept Haliburton making good money. The fact that we lost thousands of our best men and women for nothing means nothing to them!
concernedone - again, you've proved you either can't read or have no comprehension skills. I clearly stated we pay for their transportation and security - as we have for EVERY FIRST FAMILY! We are paying no more for this First Family than we have in the past.
And, again, you're a liar! You said we're paying for their vacation - we AREN'T. We pay NO MORE for the Obama's than we did for the Bush's. Did you whine about that too? Of course not - you're a lying two-faced hypocrite!
yet you feel compelled daily to call people dumb and stupid and liar and they should give a damn of your inane opinion? sure you do
It's a mute point, because every President takes vacations and is covered by the tax payers. You can't expect the Presidents to be in the oval office 100% of the time. Also, where was this concern for tax payers money when Bush was in office? Also, I believe Seeking did answere your questions, you just don't want to read it.
brenda - Wow, you know how I thought and felt during the Bush administration...??? Neat trick, but you are wrong! I supported Bush the first election - I DID NOT support Bush the second time around. As I see this country devolve into chaos, I move closer to the middle to try and save what is left. We are on a slippery slope, devoid of common sense and unity...
Just put Seeking Sanity on ignore. He tries everyday to put some vile out there so maybe Fiesty will read it and becomes his friend. Never has anything of substance just wants to "act" smart and critize others!
concerdedone - Then why just bring up Obama's name? Why not say you are tired of all the Presidents using taxpayers money to go on vacation. To me it seems you are biased against Obama and are looking for anything to bring up to make him look bad. That doesn't seem fair in any sense of the word. For instance, I am glad we went into Afghanistan, but not happy about dropping everything to go into Iraq. I am happy President Obama is finally standing up to the House, but also want a fair balanced agreement before Jan 1.
brenda- thank you. concernedone has one objective and only one - to put President Obama down every chance she gets. She's shown it over and over again then is angry when she gets called out on it.
Hope your holidays are wonderful Brenda!
dog80 - I don't care what you think because you've shown over and over again that your capacity for thought is limited to the Republican talking points so please - put me on ignore! Oh, and NOT a he!
brenda: Nobody complained about Bush taking vacations. Now, being on the job, that is a different story.
No duh, of course the president would veto the latest BS from Boehner, et al. And stop with the "moving the goal post" crap. The 4 trillioin Big Deal offered in the last session was BEFORE the president campaigned, clearly and non-stop on increasing tax rates on the richest 2%, which starts at $250,000.
Understand this, rightwingers -- whether you are rich or just delusional (who protect the rich though you'll will never be rich, and would have to pay the bills yourself because you protect the rich)... This current proposal from the president allows EVERYONE to continue enjoying the 2001 Bush tax cuts on the first $250,000 earned. If we go off the fiscal curb, say b-bye to that.
Now the president and even Pelosi have signaled they would let the Teapublicans move the goal post up to $400,000 in income. Think on this -- it's outrageously generous, but NO, it's asking for too much revenue! Too much my arse, as Boehner spins about spending cuts and never mentioning the sh!tload of spending cuts already agreed to last session when the Teapublicans held the American people hostage during the debt ceiling debacle -- With zero revenue.
Understand two things. First, the GOP Teapublicans are LIARS who have absolutely NO interest in deficit reduction. Protecting the sweet tax rates and loopholes for the wealthiest is a minor infraction compared to their over-all goal -- They want to destroy all programs that the working class relies on such as trust funds of Medicare and Social Security.
And heck even the minimum wage and labor rights, which if people were paid properly, we wouldn't have such a lack of tax revenues, and most of all we wouldn't have so many people reliant on programs like food stamps. Sweet bejesus, these companies are making record profits because labor is producing at record levels. If the greedy rat bastards would compensate their employees, then we the tax payers wouldn't have to subsidize their sorry arses in so many ways including food stamps!
Second, and this is probably the most important point, Republicans are simply stupid. Please refer to the paragraph above about the current offer from the president for EVERYONE to continue enjoying the 2001 Bush tax cuts on the the first $250,000 earned. Yet these yahoos probably wouldn't even support Boehner's idiotic Plan B -- especially those who subscribe to Grover Norquist's complete lack of logic (which is that taxes can only be cut, therefore we would eventually have zero income, and how brilliant is that? not).
All these sh!theads need to be voted out, along with the f'ed in the head governors like Rick Scott. Prepare for the mid-terms in 2014, for this is not the time to be complacent -- We have work to do!
Seeking should do everyone a favor and just go away.
All he/she has is hatred...
poor thing!
You lefties have an agenda to daily prop up the President as demigod, who can do no wrong and possesses an omnipotent like persona. Anyone who speaks out against your living diety is chastised and cursed. The ironic part is you Far Lefty FR liberals who despise religion so much worship the President in a religious fashion.
Seeking,
That simply isn't possible. Concerndone has reached the tipping point already.
Lil Michelle,
I think you should go away. A teacher who doesn't teach kids to think because she herself is incapable of rational thought doesn't belong in the classroom.
BTW, in regard to this and the previous article, the Benghazi BS needs to end too -- ASAP. Kelly Ayotte, part of the so-called "deep" Republican bench of rising stars - Hahahaha! Let her hitch her wagon to losers like Graham or even John McCain, who is starting to appear to have dementia (Graham looks like an old lady -- look at him next time he's on the news).
This is the biggest shovel full pilled on Bullsh!t Mountain to date. Holy cow, just comparing it to the lies that took us into Iraq, and one has to wonder who the he!! this idiots think they are? Of course the lemmings in the rightwing echo chamber (or rather alternative universe -- still NO lessons learned from the Mitt Romney debacle) gobble this crap up as if it is carved-in-stone facts more heinous than the Nazis.
No one is so stupid as to believe this new attack on Hillary Clinton is anything other than the beginning of the 2016 stone throwing from the Republican glass house. Puleeze, turn the FAUX Noise and Hate Radio crap off immediately, or better yet let's deport all the Teapublicans who want to secede from the Union. (Go to the White House website to sign the petition.)
P.S. Lil Michelle is probably German Gem returned. Also, s/he can stop voting for herself -- she is the one going on ignore.
Here's a question that seems to get lost in all of the talk of guns, taxes and cutting social security:
What ever happened to the spending cuts taking place under the sequestration LAW ?
Do those magically go away ?
Aren't those the real items that would push the economy "over the cliff" ?
Jack - thank you! Lil Michelle is impotent as far as any original idea is conderned. She only complains and selects her posters to target each day.
Are you serious that she is a teacher? What does she teach - pottery making? She is clearly not educated enough to teach anything consisting of facts and logic. She - at best - is a crossing guard (sorry to all those excellent crossing guards out there!)
And clearly her comprehension skills are nonexistent as I've explained I'm a "she" more than once but she still can't understand. She's NOT a teacher!
Hilarious that at the check-out counter rags like the Enquirer were running that story about the president's vacation -- along with alien invasions. Hahaha, looks like FAUX Noise has competition! Friggin' ignorant rightwing lemmings...
oh good, more namecalling and hatred.
get a life Seeking
change your name too, something like Seeking Attention would be much better
what an idiotic statement, especially coming from the left who's in support of destroying capitalism at all costs and removing guns from the populace. bon apetite
Why would we expect Time Magazine's Socialist of the Year to want anything BUT massive tax increases in EVERYBODY!! Obama certainly doesn't care about the middle class at all. Taxes are going up 10% to 15% on EVERYBODY starting in less than two weeks (when you add back in the Payroll Tax cut, medical device tax, increased income taxes, increased Obamacare taxes, etc.) so get ready.
You liberals just don't understand do you? You are letting your elected officials bend you over the counter and be financially abused and you are so stupid you say "thank you very much"?
But you get what you voted for. BTW, how is that whole "Hopey Changey" thing working out for you now?
Lil Michelle - LOL another post of absolutely NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH. Talk about seeking attention and that should be your first name! You're pathetic! But, keep it up - you're the laugh of the day!
I realize that the Right wing commenter's have no other place to post but here because Fox News turned their comment section off. They wanted everyone to believe what they wrote so they turned it off to prevent anyone from saying different. I enjoy most right wing comments on here, because it only strengthens my beliefs. When I hear comments like Obummer it means to me that he is doing his job and thwarting all the things the House is trying to do to make the rich richer and the rest of us poorer. Keep up the good work.
Anything above half a million ($500,000) would be impossible per the math, not that the Teapublicans really care about a balanced budget (or ever have based on their track record). Revenue needs to be around 20% of GDP (22% even better) and we are so far below this right now that it is insane.
But as I've posted before, what ever is agreed to for the cut-off for tax breaks should be the same for FICA with-holdings on payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare. If the righwtingers complain that the richest 2% can't get by in NY or San Fran, obviously they will also rely on trust fund programs like Social Security and Medicare -- So they should pay into these programs on ALL their income just like the working class.
Seriously, this is the ratio I care about much more than the spending cuts to revenue ratio. If this was the focus for negotiation, imagine how Social Security and Medicare would become solvent immediately and until the baby boomers are gone. There is NO need to raise the eligibility age for Medicare (which only shifts costs) or tweaking SS payments by lowering the index for inflation.
Really, seriously, WTF is wrong with the Teapublicans in congress and their rightwing minions who are too stupid to figure this out?
Seeking,
She said in a post a few weeks ago that she's a teacher. Can't imagine what of . . . .
Hey, True Patriot!
Good posts today. Where have you been? Seems like I haven't seen you in awhile.
In the words of ProBusiness > Obama certainly doesn't care about the middle class at all. Taxes are going up 10% to 15% on EVERYBODY starting in less than two weeks (when you add back in the Payroll Tax cut, medical device tax, increased income taxes, increased Obamacare taxes, etc.) so get ready.
Don't you see it coming? Don't you see what Obama's real plan is? It's as obvious as daylight. Don't be deceived... to Obama, he wants us to go over the fiscal cliff. He wants taxes raised on everyone... follow me here... He gets to blame it on the republicans for not raising taxes on the 2%. The next action that will occur will be him donning the white hat, riding into town on his high horse and lowering taxes on the middle class. He will have effectively achieved the same goal as if the republicans voted to raise taxes on those making $250K and above...
This is nothing but a political game. Obama is still campaigning... but for what? A third term? Don't put it past him.
Caesar Augustus, and the rest of the rightwing riff raff -- read instead of posting, and by all means stop drinking the Kool-Aid (if only it was laced per Jonestown).
What you are seeing is liberals who no longer lay down to become a welcome mat, and conservative bullies who hate to be hit back. We as a society can no longer be PC in the name of everyone having a right to their own opinion. Opinion are like arseholes, everyone has one, but folks cannot have their own FACTS. Ignorance will no longer be tolerated. When folks post conspiracy crap like how the president is going take away all their guns, it MUST be shut down and flushed.
Thanks for playing...
Is this latest proposal the nest thing for everyone? Probably not.
But I for one am giving credit for something I thought I wouldn't. Regardless of how we look at it the GOP is compromising. That alone is a huge surprise to this guy.
While this latest proposal may not have everything I would like to see, it is certainly a step in the right direction. The GOP is at least making concessions that would help many in the middle class by keeping the current tax rates intact for the middle class.
As we all know, compromise means give and take. There has to be a middle ground similar to what we are now seeing or neither side will win which means we all lose.
Time waits for no man and we are quickly running out of precious time. Both sides need to come to an agreement ASAP or this country is going to endure problems that we used to believe could never happen here.
youre the cultist not me. Follow your pied piper Toilet Paper. Love how you libtards believe by virtue of your political affiliation you are smarter and better informed than everyone else. Your arrogance knows know bounds. Since you're in the mood for playing, go do it with yourself. Continue marching with hammer and sickles
Obama is like a dog with a bone on this issue. Why isn't he talking about specifics on spending cuts? The republicans are giving up their "evil" Koch brothers (who surely make more than $1mm a year), but yet Obama still isn't satisified. The republicans have compromised and made concessions. The only thing that people will remember is that if Obama vetos Plan B is that he gave the green light to the millionaires! And isn't also ironic for all the bashing on Bush that the liberals do, they are defending to the death something he passed....
TruePatriot Quote: "Understand this, rightwingers -- whether you are rich or just delusional (who protect the rich though you'll will never be rich, and would have to pay the bills yourself because you protect the rich)... This current proposal from the president allows EVERYONE to continue enjoying the 2001 Bush tax cuts on the first $250,000 earned. If we go off the fiscal curb, say b-bye to that."
Helelujah, there is at least one person who understands whats going on. Amazing that no one picks up on the fact that without the delusional right winged lemmings none of this would be a problem! Guess what, the upper "rich" 2% are not the majority!!! It just blows we away how many people have a problem with a tax hike for incomes above $250'000 when they not even near (and never will be) even close to this treshold. Shouldn't in a democracy the majority set the rules? Apparently not in this one! So get over it people, its as always: the have's against the havenot's. The havenot's are in the majority and the haves are calling the shots.
End of story!
Caesar Augustus-
"You lefties have an agenda to daily prop up the President as demigod, who can do no wrong and possesses an omnipotent like persona. Anyone who speaks out against your living diety is chastised and cursed. The ironic part is you Far Lefty FR liberals who despise religion so much worship the President in a religious fashion."
Uh-Oooooh!!!... It looks like Obama must have gotten all uppity and stepped outside his "station" again with dear Sleazer Almostiss here... You know Sleaze, just because he's a much better man than you is no reason to hate everyone that can tell... Besides, who isn't?
look the resident re-reg Ruken pipes in. I wasnt talking Obama, just his idiot followers. you knew that right? of course you did, you can read?
and RUH ROH, Ruken said im not a better man and everyone else is. Im sure your lefty friends would agree with you oh little misogynist folder. Therefore you win the argument LOL
True Patriot, I read what you said about "per the math." I can understand why you would come to this conclusion based on sheer numbers. I believe this is nothing but political BS. The president has the support of the left, and he has convinced his supporters that the rich do not pay their fair share. Let's say taxes are raised on the rich. Will the left then be satisfied when the deficits do not go down? Historically, any increase in revenue has been met with an increase in spending. It seems the government has a way of taking any new forms of revenue and turning them into new programs that cost... you guessed it... the same as the increase in revenue.
You alluded to ratios... well, when you consider the perceived gains by raising taxes on the rich as compared to the consumption by the poor, those numbers don't fit in any equation either. The amount raised by increased taxes still don't cover the dollars spent by the government in food stamps, welfare, housing and heating costs. I don't believe we should eliminate these helpful expenditures, but maybe the requirements should be raised... in otherwords, don't just give the money away...
It could be that instead of copping out by blaming the teaparty and republicans, both sides should work together to come up with solutions to our problems instead of calling each other names and ignoring each other.
WHERE ARE THE CUTS?!?!?!?!?!?!?
The REAL cuts. Not the decreases in already increased spending.
WHERE ARE THE CUTS?!?!?!?!?!?!?
The REAL cuts. Not the decreases in already increased spending.
WHERE ARE THE REAL CUTS IN SPENDING?
Of course these will never happen because Barrack Hussein doesn't want to fix the economy. He simply wants to continue his class-warfare/envy-of-the-rich meme and punish all those mean nasty rich bogeymen that intrude on his wet-dreams of Unicorns and Shangri-La under social and economic justice for the collective nonsense.
It'll be interesting to see how the CBO grades this mess when both sides finally slap their big ole Band-Aids on it. I'll wager it does nothing to our long term fiscal systemic defects and the "Cliff" will show up again in a year or two. The can will be kicked down the road again as we worry about some gun control nonsense that is unnecessary.
Greed isn’t someone wanting to keep more of what they earn, its people demanding a greater share of money that someone else has earned.
WHERE ARE THE REAL CUTS IN SPENDING?
Of course these will never come because Barrack Hussein doesn't want to fix the economy. He simply wants to continue his class-warfare/envy-of-the-rich meme and punish all those mean nasty rich bogeymen that intrude on his wet-dreams of Unicorns and Shangri-La under social and economic justice for the collective nonsense.
It'll be interesting to see how the CBO grades this mess when both sides finally slap their big ole Band-Aids on it. I'll wager it does nothing to our long term fiscal systemic defects and the "Cliff" will show up again in a year or so.
Greed isn’t someone wanting to keep more of what they earn, its people demanding a greater share of money that someone else has earned.
WOW!!!
I have no idea what happened to my post #1.55.
However the duplication happened, I humbly apologize.
Am I the only one who wants to know what "a test of balance" is?
I'm willing to take a tax increase rather than give in to the GOP one inch on preventing the tax increases for those making over $250,000 per year. Let the GOP shoot themselves in the other foot. They will feel the voters wrath in 2014.
Let GOP fat cats, like John "Toonces" Boehner, drive the car off the cliff and then explain to their home districts why they allowed it to happen. We'll all get a better deal once these slimeballs are out of the way in 2014, and the Republican Party is just a really bad historical footnote...and we'll be doing our part to pay off Bush's unfunded wars in the meantime...
formerGOPlapdog - you are forgetting one thing. If we go over the cliff and a double dip recession occurs, or worse a depression, there's only one name that will be associated with it... The blame always goes to the president, no matter how much the liberals wish it weren't so.
former,
You seem to always forget to include the current president on these wars...remember (I know the left likes to forget...) that we have had more casualties in Afghnistan under Obama in four years then in the previous two terms with Bush AND while you like to lay claim that the troop pullout happened under Obama, in reality, the plan was formulated and set in motion while Bush was still in office. As for the cost...all appropriations were approved by Congress...this "keeping off the books" is just a smokescreen to avoid the reality that our politicians (BOTH Democrat and Republican) knew how much was being spent on the war activities...
And get with it about these "fat cats". Are you now really picking on those making from $400k to $1MM? You like to complain about how the "rich" haven't paid their fair share, but yet I haven't heard ONE person from the liberals on here thank Bush for those tax cuts....
hey haggis how much per post do you get paid?
Seeking -
Ok... The President and family have taken 16+/- vacations since they moved into the White House just under 4 years ago. 4 of those vacations cost the taxpayer approximately $5,342,000. Their upcoming 20 day Hawaiian vacation will cost another estimated $4,000,000. So in one term, ONLY counting 5 of their vacations (don't have the data on the other 11), BHO vacations will cost the taxpayer just under $10,000,000. This info has been released under the Freedom of Information Act and can be verified by a simple internet search.
I never, never, never said the taxpayer had not historically paid for presidential vacations - never. I SAID:
I'm still waiting to hear how I LIED, and how my comment makes me stupid? I made a factual statement & you took it as an attack - as did several staunch Democratic supporters on Newsvine... Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it isn't true. In order for BHO to keep at the negotiation table, he will have to miss (or probably delay) his vacation. And yes, BHO's vacations, as is the case with probably ALL other presidential vacations, is being covered by you and I.
I will continue to wait on your evidence of how these facts are lies and how pointing out facts makes me stupid...
Remember - If we work in the middle, we can accomplish anything. Peace!
brenda -
Oh my word!!! BHO is the president! I refered to him because he is the one currently taking these vacations. If it makes you feel better, OK, I'm tired of presidents jet-setting all over the globe on vacations while the hungry go hungry, and while we can't pay for security guards in all schools... How inclusive would you like me to be? I pointed out Obama because HE is the current president. Maybe I should have referenced the "George Washington Slept Here" tour as well...
Jack in Portsmouth, Howdy! I've been taking a rest and enjoying the holidays.
But as you can see, I no longer have any "liberal" tolerance remaining toward the ignorance that is now the rightwing. I believe that we as a society have set morays, morals, and ethics since the day of tribes that preserves the peace (before organized religion distorted real values). We must return to this practice and stop with the PC crap, so when folks spew falsities as facts, they must be immediately called on it, shamed (if this is even possible anymore) and shut down. To wit…
edgarw has so many tinfoil hats he has caused the price of tin to go up. The lesson lost is how the rightwingers actually believed their own sh!t about Romney winning the election. If you would come out of your echo chamber -- get your information from more reliable sources and stop reinforcing the crap by talking only amongst yourselves -- you wouldn't be lured by such propaganda.
Caesar Augustus- who voted for Romney calls progressives "cultists"- Ha. Did you see recent polls about American's views of Mormonism? We just missed a bullet folks -- this in addition to Mitt being a an incompetent Plutocratic.
JK1963 is an example of Swoop and Poop posting, rather than actually doing a little reading and comprehension of the article of other posts first.
JimSpence asks "where are the cuts?" He would know if he'd turn off FAUX Noise and watch programs like Up with Chris Hayes, but since the Right embraced their anti-intellectualism movement, the big words used on that show are surely intimidating.
Seriously, at least 1.2 trillion in spending cuts have been in the president and the Dem's proposals (this in addition to the spending cuts already made). If rightwingers ask for specifics (as they failed to do with Romney's "plan"), I'm all for seeing that -- How much from defense spending?! Gees, that the president/Dems would even consider trust funds at this time -- when there is not enough time for thoughtful reform -- it is incomprehensible that Teapublicans nonetheless rage on in their blind hate and idiocy.
I am SO sick and tired of these interminable ignoramuses, I can barely maintain civil conversation anymore. They have taken this great nation of ours down the toilet, for which there is NO forgiveness.
seeking -
Click on my user ID and check my past postings. Prove to the world where I take every chance to put BHO down every chance I get... YOUR post is a blatant LIE! Go ahead & prove me wrong... You couldn't do it above, and you will not be able to again!
Jack in Port -
Prove it, please?
Am I "stupider" because I am looking for a spirit of cooperation on 2 sides of a debate that is affecting the entire country? Is it wrong to seek a middle-of-the-road compromise? Is it wrong to work together?
Does it make you superior in some way to say I have 'reached the tipping point of stupidity'? Can you justify the accuracy of your statement?
Let's be clear... I am a Republican who supported the Clinton administration, and a Republican who voted for BHO in 2008. Do either of these demonstrations make me even "stupider"?
Caesar Augustus-
"look the resident re-reg Ruken pipes in. I wasnt talking Obama, just his idiot followers. you knew that right? of course you did, you can read?"
Looks like Nancy here has decided to mount up on her "re-reg Ruken" therapy horse again and prance around for us all. Let's just address her questions first... 1. You're always talking Obams you fancy FOP. 2. Yes I knew that, beacause 3. I can read.
Now, many people remember someone named Ruken that permanently affixed your ass to the top of your head... In fact, I think it's how most of us picture you in our minds eyes. However, no matter how warm you may find your head now, it's still forming nothing but assinine thoughts... Funny how that works, eh? btw... Your addition recently of the "Hammer and sickle" reference really adds to your reportoire and helps influence people into thinking your not nutso.
I am not Ruken. I am not a re-reg. I am in favor of reasonable people. I make great sport of those that are not. You are not. Aside from your odd-ball fantasy political beliefs, the fact that you go all "Don-Quixote" tilting at some windmill from your past called Ruken that already chopped you to bits is just further proof of your unreasonable state of mind.
The bigger picture here is that republicans and their willing serf class are a minority that still wants to pretend they're not. 2014 will be far less kind to them than 2012 was because they do not show sufficient ability to learn from what's placed directly before their eyes. We will right the ship even if all they're good for from here on in is ballast.
True,
I see nothing in your posts that would demonstrate how you are a patriot. You ridicule those that don't spend their day browsing through the dictionary for the right "elitist" words to use in your post to make yourself sound more intellectual than you really are in reality.
I missed this one -- another example of Lack of Logic as well as FACTS. The Lack of Logic is the Manichean reasoning that since just taxing the richest 2% won't reduce the entire deficit, therefore why require the rich to pay their fair share in revenue? This argument not only misses the point of inequality, but also is far more $$$ than the damn "ear mark" spending you rightwingers get your undies in a bundle about. But you can't seem to wrap your tiny minds around the same premise that it ALL adds up and we have to start somewhere.
As for your post above JK1963, I'll try to explain what a patriot is. As someone who has been in the richest 5% during the Clinton tax rates, I NEVER whined and moaned about my taxes. I am also single without children, so the only tax credit I had was mortgage interest and charitable contribution. Now I would gladly pay those tax rates again if I were still in the richest 5%, and most wealthy Americans feel the same way -- Warren Buffet was on Jon Stewart recently and said (I'm paraphrasing) that if he called Jon up to see if he wanted in on a fantastic investment, would Jon ask what he'd have to pay in taxes first? No!
So why the GOP and their supporters balk at fairness, I can only guess the Teapublicans in congress fear their rich self-serving donors and being "primaried" by Grover Norquist and his gang of thugs, and because their supporters are brainwashed by the rightwing propaganda machine. But there was a time when Americans felt that paying taxes was a patriotic duty -- during wartime in particular. Not so much the case during Bush/Cheney and the unpaid wars they perpetrated.
This is only one example of patriotism. The current mentality from the rightwing is not only sad, it is hypocritical beyond comprehension. Teapublican family members who supported Romney the Plutocrat were receiving or have received food stamps, Pell grants, disability, Social Security and Medicare, etc. WTF is the problem with connecting the dots, or is it unpatriotic thinking of "hey I'm gonna get mine but everyone else needs to take a hike?"
Jerry-1927474 -- There is no place here for conspiracy theory garbage. I've reported your post, and I hope others will do so as well.
concernedone -- As long as cooperation is not interpreted as both sides being equally responsible for the gridlock. False equivalency is second only to Jerry's post as fallacious argumentation. Teapublicans are the ones responsible for the obstruction and Do Nothing Congress since 2008, and per S&P's reasons for lowering our tax rate after the debt ceiling debacle.
It has been their pre-meditated "strategery" to block success in the hopes they could win back seats, and they did in 2010 with this despicable Party First behavior. Enough, they need to be voted out!
True Patriot -
If they need to go, let the people they represent do so at the ballot box - not by the witch hunt you condemned regarding post 1.70.
Seeking Sanity - I'm still waiting on that proof of me being a liar...
I have to go, but will check back tomorrow. (Not that I expect a response - because I never "lied" and I am no "hypocrite"...)
I love how liberals want to blame this on Republicans but what do you expect from an uninformed and uneducated liberal base.
The Republicans have offered to extend ALL current tax rates except for those making $1 million or more.
So Obama has one of two choices:
1) Allow 99% of Americans NOT get a tax increase; or
2) Allow EVERYONE to get a tax increase
So Obama and the Democrats have the choice of whether you pay more in taxes or not. Now I don't give a tiny rat's behind because this IS Obama who is a big government Socialist who HAS raised taxes already on everybody (due to regulations, ObamaCare, etc.) and WILL raise income taxes on everybody as well.
I am not blind and know his methods AND his intention. So it is coming (and, BTW, is the reason the economy just cannot recover) but YOU are too unintelligent to see it. So your taxes WILL go up. The question is how in the world can a sane and rational human being blame the Republicans when they have an offer on the table to extend current tax rates for 99% of Americans and Obama and the Democrats say "No"?
But of course when we have the majority of Americans so uninformed and unintelligent to reelect a Socialist like Barrack Hussein Obama ANYTHING is possible.......
Again, people, this is posturing. Boehner is not an idiot. Boehner can't get republicans in the house to approve Obama's plan. Boehner can say, "yes, okay... nice compromise... you went from 250K to 400K... and you agreed to cuts... very nice..." but at the end of the day, there are too many right-wingnuts in the House. He can't carry the vote, and now realizes it. People are confused as to why Boehner is doing this stupid Plan-B option. It's because he has no OTHER option. If he agrees to the president's balanced approach, and then the GOP run house rejects it, or the GOP minority in the senate filibusters it, then he looks like an idiot, and the GOP looks worse than ever (and its already at like a 20% approval rating).
Boehner is smart. He realizes he's screwed, and the GOP has rejected all compromise. So, it's now time for PR moves. "WHY WON'T THE PRESIDENT LOWER TAXES FOR ALL AMERICANS?!?!?!" This is just spin so the republicans don't look as bad as we fall off the cliff. That is all, folks.
After we fall off the cliff, Democrats will have EVERYTHING they wanted in higher taxes, and can then pass ANOTHER tax cut for the middle class and come off as heros. Boehner doesn't want that. But this is a sign that he has no choice. His tea party extremists are forcing failure upon him. So the man is doing the best thing he possibly can. Spinning publicity to make the GOP look as good as possible as they meanwhile throw us off the cliff.
Don't blame Boehner. He's doing his best with a party of idiots.
True,
So let me get this straight, simply because you didn't avail yourself to any available tax deductons or credits at that time and paid your taxes that you are supposed to owe makes you a patriot?? Really? Well...I suppose that makes every one else a patriot as well. Writing about how you ONLY took just mortgage interest and charitable deductions doesn't make you a patriot, it makes you a financial moron. So let me ask you this, why bother taking either of those deductions?? If you truly felt compelled to be a "financial" patriot then why bother ripping off the Treasury with those deductions? Your "claim" about fairness is at the real heart of the debate for who should pay more and who should pay less... You have your opinion and I have mine about who should pay more but to claim that you are a patriot simply because you paid your taxes and didn't whine about it, well, you and I have a different definition of a patriot.
Flip-flopping? It is not a matter of flip-flopping! Obama stated what he wanted when he was running for re-election. Boehner just can't understand English!
What Boehner has proposed does nothing! $60B a year - big deal! Obama is doing the right thing... if the Republicans can't step up with a real compromise, not some token offer that does nothing to decrease the debt, then let all the tax cuts expire at the end of the year! There ain't no fiscal cliff, this is another Republican bogey-man to try and weasel out of their lack of compromise the last time they discussed this back in 2011.
EE,
So using Obama's 250K is only approximately $88 billion a year...so you going to quibble over only $28 billion a year? Chump change... And you must live under a rock or are one of the 1%'ers if you think that you won't feel the effect of going over the fiscal cliff. And you if you are talking about real debt reduction, let's talk about taking away your mortgage interest deducton and charitable donation deduction. Also take away your property tax deduction...those are REAL dollars that add up that the Treasury loses out on...
We wouldn't need to pay for security guards at our schools if we where able to have a one person provider for the family and have one parent actually home parenting. Also we took the ability of parents and school teacher to administer punishment to unruly kids away as well. Now kids have no discipline. Sorry, but the time out thing doesn't work. As far as how inclusive I would like you to be is say what you mean and not make us guess as to your meaning. If you meant all presidents, then say all presidents. That way we do not come away with the idea that you hate BHO.
PLAN B - "...while TWO (2) MILLION Americans would lose unemployment insurance", on December 29th, 2012.
Through no fault of their own, I know of 2 million Americans and their families who will not be having a "Merry Christmas" if this gets passed as advertised.
The Rep.T.P. have again tried to convince the voting public that we are facing a fiscal cliff. We are not. We are returning to the taxes prior to our former P.O.T.U.S. pay back to the super rich for their help in having him elected.Even he knew that the gift of tax give aways was not sustainable so he made it a temporary gift.The time is long passed due when we should stop their looting of us and returned to ,not their fair share,but a tax code nearer to reality. They blackmailed this present P.O.T.U.S. by threatening to starve the unemployed.They have done all that they could to make him what they set out to do .Become a one term P.O.T.U.S. They failed,yet they refuse to accept the will of us their Employers and are willing to risk the destruction of our nation to remain in thrall to their master Norquist .I hope that the voters throw out all of his minions Rep. and Dem. at our next election time.As far as our Social Benefits are concerned.They are the only true entitlements and will not be wiped out . Where else can our employees find a source of money to loot under the guise of we pay it back to you! . They take it at a low percentage then lend it out at a profit and boast that they are fiscally responsible. Mr President, please do not be fooled.This is not a fiscal cliff. It is the start of returning to fiscal responsibility
Amen
Oh Edgar,oh no,not this time my friend.It has been quite obvious with what the White House has proposed and what the House hasproposed and pretty much EVERYONE I have talked with,both right wing and left completely blames the Republican House for this mess...thats been the case since last year
Barack Obama is the President.And from what he has proposed..it has the backing of over 80% of this country's people.$250,000 a year is a lot of money a year,if one cannot afford to live on that,then they do have issues.
Well Dave,
I see that you are judge and jury now about what is a lot of money and what is not. I suppose that is someone making $249,999 is not wealthy or perhaps someone just making $100K. It's nice to know that people like Obama have turned this country against each other because of some who are more wealthy then others. And like all good liberals you would like to believe that just by raising the rates on those "wealthy" all of the country's problems will be solved. Why for the love of God doesn't Obama talk specifics about spending cuts (and not those phony ones of claiming the end of the war funding is a "cut", please get real...). This country spends much more than it takes in, and you know the cause of that? It's because there are far more "takers" in our country than "givers". When we start making EVERY one pay something into the pot, then we will begin to turn this country around. As long as we are just content to soak the rich, then Obama has won and we will be heading to bankruptcy.
Cut defense...and
Save social security and Medicare which are under stress because of larger number of baby boomer retiring and less contribution by employers in a recession caused by corporate greed.
Time for the 1% to pay up after the middle class has shouldered most of the burden by bailing out the Wall Street and at the same time suffering from job losses that are not the fault of the middle class but the fault of selfish corporations and lack of leadership by Bush.
Pigotry,
You got my vote for President!!
The sacred cow that is the Military/Industrial complex has got to be dismantled, and the people working in that industry need to be put to work in alternative careers before the military spending in this nation bankrupts us.
Cut defence and we still have a large budget deficit because of Medicaid, Medicare, and welfare.
I'm assuming by Medicaid you mean the tax payer health insurance we give to congresses families for free. You mean by Medicare the tax payer health insurance we give to members of congress for free. And you mean by welfare the enormous pay checks we give to congress men and women for doing nothing. Oh and don't forget the corporate welfare checks we hand out annually, and all those welfare checks to the rich. Yes we would have a large budget deficit any way Alan, but not for the reasons you think.
here we go again, same old republican @!$%#, agree to one thing and then vote no. my president isnt buying nor is the general public no matter how you try to take control.
ps. touching cola on SS is a non-starter and big mistake for who ever votes for such an idea, we paid our share no its time to raise the cap, and negotiate drug prices for medicare.
Why is that the only cuts that the republican/tea party are for programs that help people?
Cut defense and raise payroll taxes (social security and medicare) and increase the age for eligibility!
Smitty, those Dem programs don't help people either. You just refuse to look beyond the point in time that someone gets a cheque to see what the consequences of those programs are.
I actually agree with Piggy on cutting war spending (I can't call it defence spending).
Smitty: It's quite frankly a relief to see somebody bringing slack to this discussion.
Further down, you'll note XD- ### having a conniption over our President's 'class warfare'. The Wrong wingers have been waging relentless, scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners class warfare against us, the Productive Class, ever since Reagan- but now that we've finally realized how much we've been lied to, and how badly we and our posterity have been rat-f****d, now they call it 'class warfare'.
It's only 'class warfare' when the Productive Class fights back to reclaim some of the fruits of their labor from the Leisure Class. Oue entire economy has been upended, so that now the single largest portion of it is "financial products". You can't eat them, drive them, live in them, wear them- no, we have a huge segment of our workforce engaged in buying and selling worthless, meaningless paper to each other, and somehow, some people were surprised when the whole rotten structure fell in on itself!
If 80% of the "financial products" workforce were to vanish off the face of the Earth tomorrow, the neccessary and vital business activities of America and the world would continue with nary a ripple nor tremor. My authority for that assertion is Warren Buffet, a man who is now execrated and reviled by the greedy, grasping, and unneccessary Leisure Class for calling b******t on their anguished claims of unfair treatment by the mean, unsympathetic and unappreciative peasants whose sweat and blood built their fortunes.
Yes Cut Defence, I agree with everything Piggy said "Right On"! Sen Colburn has stated there are too many Generals and high Ranking Officials. It is time for the rich to help "The Little Guy's"
Look at ALL the money the Republicans spent on the Election this past year--we could have paid the Debpt instead Fund Raiser are just another word for 'Party' All that money waisted when it could be put to good use. I heard the money the Pres. ask for is or was... would not be missed by the rich.
I truly do not understand the Republicans way of thinking! The Republicans need their money messed with! They have went too far with the "Women's Issues." And all men on the Panel: I think that the Republicans should Not make the money they make, take their Insurance Away.
They want to take contraceptive away from the Women the Women need to take the Viagra Away from the men!
We have Problems of the day why go back in time, to the Politician's You need to fix and concentrate on Today's Problem's. We could save a lot of money if we could get rid of Official Dead-Wood.
The Politician's need to "Learn the Value of Money" And "How can they help the "Little Guy" with out throwing a fit!
Smitty-4183671
"Why is that the only cuts that the republican/tea party are for programs that help people?"
A: Because they help OTHER people...
Let the fiscal cliff come and go...After the taxes go up for everybody the public will become so outraged that they will DEMAND a tax cut for those making less than $250,000, and such a bill will pass the Senate quickly once the GOP realizes that to vote against it will mean certain political death in 2014...
Once the middle and lower class tax cuts get extended...then let the GOP try to negotiate....the last election should have proved what a pack of fools and miscalculating idiots the GOP consists of, so now they must face the consequences of years of greed and government programs for the wealthy and corporations....
I like to know what spending cuts are we looking for. Where do we want to cut? Programs that help the middle class and poor? Defense? Education? How about aid to other countries? Are we just out to cut social security and Medicare? WHY? Where else can we cut????And why can't we cut Congress's pay???
Let's raise the tax rates for those making over a MILLION dollars, and raise the capital gains tax for those millionaires + also. Then cut all government programs, & agencies by at least 10 to 15%. There is that much waste in government so it really shouldn't effect most necessary spending.
Pigotry - You missed your talking points. President Obama has now declared war on the 2%, obviously because there wasn't enough people to hate when it was the 1%.
The Boehner pretends that the taxes aren't going to expire with or without his plan B. Without an an agreement, there will be slashes in the military budget, something that was needed for a long time but will get the GOP base howling like a pack of insane jackals. Yet, incredibly, The Boehner is the #1 Republican leader at this time. Maybe not in 30 days, Nancy Pelosi can count votes, The Boehner cannot. Plan B is just what it sounds like.
Pigotry: You obviously have no idea what you are talking about so let me educate you:
We now spend a year on Social Security and Medicare $1.5 Trillion a year and, in total, our federal government spends $3.6 Trillion a year (which includes SS and Medicare). Our Tax Revenues are about $2.5 Trillion. That is a deficit of $1.1 Trillion (which is what we need to borrow).
So your comment is that the "1%" need to payup. Are you aware that even if the tax rates increased as Obama wants that will bring in AT MOST another $60 Billion a year? But our deficit is $1.1 Trillion a year. That means we STILL need to borrow $1.04 Trillion a year.
So explain to me how taxing the 1% will fix our deficit problem? Answer: It won't. Only the uninformed and the unintelligent would repeat this nonsense and think it makes sense or would make a difference.
Cut defense and foreign aid to zero. Increase medicaid, medicare and SS benefits for poor people. Increase taxes across the board and double it on the top 2%. Eliminate max SS paid in. Eliminate anyone who averaged over $250,000.00 per annum from collecting SS or Medicare.
Malcontented: What I find interesting is your total lack of understanding the topic you commented on. Do you realize even if we DID all the things you mentioned we would STILL have an annual deficit? That should tell you something right there.........
We have a SPENDING problem - not a tax revenue problem............
Oh yea,those Democratic programs arent helping people at all.Medicaid is'nt helping at all FMLA is'nt helping at all,unemployment's for lazee fu*(&s,am I right??Ever been unemployed?Ever been helping your dying parent die a dignified death?I have..till you've been there... shut up.
Piggy, Boner is screwed no matter which way he goes, and Grover is waiting in the wings with a big jar of vaseline.
Proving all along, only Norquist knows what to do with a limp Boehner. What is laughable is the right orgasmically screams that Obama is a failed leader. Yet it is the limp Boehner that can't lead and deliver a Republican vote on a bill that Obama will sign.
RedDev, we can't help but laugh when we look back less than two months and remember that the Empty Suit, the Inevitable Candidate, the man nobody liked, wanted, or trusted but who we were still expected to vote for, ran his campaign under the banner of "Leadership."
These guys don't know any more about leadership than a hog knows about Sunday. The fact that most of their party swore fealty to a cipher like Pope Grover should tell us all we need to know about the utter lack of character or moral fibre in their ranks.
You're sure telling it like it is today FoxTrotsky... Much appreciated!
That republican candidate (whatsisname again?) always reminded me of a graphic character from the old cigarette ads in stores and on billboards.
Thanks Mr. O -- destroying the country one day at a time. What happened to all that "working" with BOTH parties, oh that's right your promises the 2nd time around are as good as the first time around. Lying right to our faces, just like a good little democrat.
As he should. Boehner can shove his Plan B up his ass, if there is enough room, i've heard Eric Cantor is already up there.
Yes! Boehner's plans is absolutely irrehensible! And when Obama's plan comes down the line The House can vote against it because it too will be absolutely awful.
I've heard that too. That is way Cantor has those butt cheek flap burns on his face.
Guess The Weeper has to move on to Plan "C"....."C" stands for Cantor.....who can see himself as "speaker"!
The only thing this proves is that King Barry isn't interested in compromise at all...it's his way or nothing. Repubs have moved to compromise, Obama sticks his finger up his ass and thinks it smells like roses. He will own this fiscal cliff and you can blame him for your taxes going up in 2 wks.
now President Obama COMPROMISED WITH tax increases on wages above $400million.. KING BOHNER is the one to FINALLY COMPROMISE for the first time ever, but agreeing to tax increase on wages over $1 million.. Compromise means both must meet in the middle at tax increases on wages over $700 million... we'll see where it ends up, and on who actually compromises MORE....
Boehner's just mad because Obama's package is bigger than his.
Wow ! Another "dick-brain" mentality reveals itself ? Former Congressman Weiner ... is that you ?
How many of you liberals are bright enough to realize that Obama has ALREADY raised taxes on those making over $200k/$250k through Obamacare ... 3.8% on "investment income" and .9% on earned income ?
Jim420, I'd take Obama's offer to raise taxes on people making over $400 MILLION!!!!!
How many conservatives are bright enough to know that Obama already cut the middle class's taxes twice in 2009 and 2010?
How many liberals are bright enough to realize that cutting payroll taxes was only to get votes AND that it will reduce future benefits to be paid back to the individual ?
Are you bright enough to realize Obamacare RAISED taxes on the middle class by raising the AGI threshold on medical deuctions, imposing excise taxes on certain medical devices, further limiting HCA reimbursables, and reducing the max amout an individual can put into a medical reimbursement plan ?
There's more .... but you would have to read the bill to see what's in it.
I know that in August, my insurance company sent me their usual statement of a rate increase of 17% in September. When September rolled around, the increase was only 1% because of the ACA. Thank you, President Obama.
Veto bay nor,,
Time for the old man partie of rednecks to give in already.Like the election they lost.
Bay nor ,
Loooooooooser. Get ready to get lubed bohner ,lmao
This is good news. The more the government can't agree the better. Going over the cliff is a positive for the country and for you and myself.
There will be spending cuts Obama would never approve. Sooner the better.
There will be tax increases on the rich the republicans would never approve of.
And there will be cuts to Defense (Actually Offense because it's so large) the Republicans will never approve of..
rich republicans??? HOw about letting me know what congressperson or member of Senate is POOR -- Mr. O is a democrat and he isn't poor! Stop with the class warfare, I know that's what your O started with his divisiveness but We The people don't have to play along, or are you afraid all your O freebies are getting cutoff? Go to work and pay your taxes like the rest of us!
Say more stupid @!$%# dottie, you're funny!
Forward over the cliff. Better alternative than Barry's ongoing, never ending tax and spend BS.
williered, you dont surprise any of us and thats exactly why you lost the election.
Mr. President, do not touch earned benefits programs.
The GOP will not rest until the Middle Class is their footstool.
'Earned benefits programs' or entitlement social welfare tools used to buy elections?
No Alan, they're used to "buy" a concept foreign to GOP sycophants: Middle Class security/prosperity.
Most Social Security benefits go to help orphans and the disabled.
People do suffer temporary misfortunes in life, and Social Security and Medicare humanely cushion the blow for a lot of those less fortunate than the bloviating right-wing trolls populating this board.
You know the type Alan.
Social welfare tools to buy elections is all the entitlements to the rich and corporations Alan. And how did that work out for you republicans in November?
Earned benefits (Social Security, Medicare) is something you pay for all your working life to receive Alan.
Social welfare (subsidies, tax breaks for the rich) is sitting around on your butt like the rich and corporations, doing nothing but waiting for your check to arrive.
I'd like to see them stop calling Social Security and Medicare "entitlements."
But then I'd like to stop them from calling terrorists "insurgents" too.
I guess I'm just old fashioned
SS, Medicare, and Medicaid are welfare.
The new definition of troll = someone you don't agree with.
alan_static - social security, which all of us pay into, is welfare? You are an imbecile - and now you've completely proved it!
Food stamps, cash aid, bill payments are Welfare
savings accounts.. SSI, IRA's, unemployment, insurance payments to your doctors. IE medicare..or Aetna, humana, Aflac, etc are NOT WELFARE..
OIL subsidys, Farmers paid NOT TO GROW food, business given breaks for offshoring jobs.. IS WELFARE
The Speaker has basically proposed the same bill that Pelosi and Schumer put forth last year. Now its not good enough because the President knows he can't get the Senate to pass it. Mr. Speaker go ahead with your plan, pass it, send it to Harry Reid where it will do the same thing every other bill you have passed in the House does, sit there!
They wish to go over the cliff so they can blame it on the Republicans. The administration knows he cannot get the votes to pass any legislation in the Senate that will reduce the deficit. Let them own it!
SS is welfare when some will get benefits many times what they paid in SeekingInsanity so F off.
alan - no because so many who pay into it never live long enough to get everything they paid in out. So STFU because you have NO argument to support your stupidity!
And, I don't have to seekinsanity when people like you make it SO easy to find!
Alan, you are so far off I can't believe it. I worked many years and my SS is $670.00 a month. My COLA for 2013 is an extra $8.00. Do you think I am getting many times what I paid in?
TO: alan_static who wrote:
I pre-paid for both my Social Security Retirement AND my medicare.
I haven't paid anything into "welfare" and I don't receive it, nor am I qualified to receive it.
You, on the other hand, could end up on "welfare" because you don't have any money paid into Social Security or Medicare.
Alan, I don't usually agree with you, but I never actually believed you were either stupid or crazy, until now.
TO: dogs80 who wrote:
Too late, I already puked on it.
Spend, spend, spend....then eventually tax, tax, tax (everyone) to pay for it. Forward!!!! OFF the cliff!!!! Whhhhhheeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a perfect description of what the Republicans did to this country from 2000 through 2008, and now we are left holding the check. The GOP gave us a fine example of how to dine and dash.
They had the Busboy bring food to the table.. not even on the check ( wars off budget )
GOP and Dems. Why would you include one and not the.....oh, nevermind.
Still with the entitlement 'reforms'! My Dog, they're like a freakin' broken record- and still worse is that our President appears to be buying into their insanity.
You want cuts? I'll give you cuts! How about curtailing foreign aid to those countries that have demonstrated their dislike for us?
How about a couple of warplanes of questionable value (F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, V-22 Osprey, the latter a plane that the Marine Corps said quite emphatically that they did not want)?
How about cutting all energy company subsidies in a time of record-shattering profits for those companies (this is admittedly a mainly symbolic gesture, as we're not giving them enough money for that alone to make a big difference)?
As we discussed yesterday, the defence area alone could yield some substantial savings in the hoary old 'waste, fraud, and abuse' sphere. I don't advise, or support, drawing down our forces too far- this is still a dangerous world, populated by lots of folks who don't love Uncle Sam. But when we look at the difference in construction costs per net ton on a modern warship versus any sort of commercial carrier (yes, I know that warships are far more complicated- I fix them, OK?) it becomes obvious that there's some money sticking to somebody's fingers somewhere along the line.
Based on my own experiences and observations, I am prepared to state unequivocally that our whole machinery of weapons procurement and development is rotten and corrupt from top to bottom. The Israelis, and the French (believe it or else!) could teach us a thing or three about getting 'bigger bang for the buck'- but it's not going to be this President who undertakes to reform it. Man's got plenty on his plate as it is.
Yes! Getting rid of all those expensive weapons programs and stopping sending money to other countries that hate us will help reduce our deficit. If we got rid of our military we would still have a deficit problem, though it would be much better.
See Alan, you're either lying or you're not vary smart. If we got rid of the military we would have a big surplus.
That's not true. Our deficit is around $1 trillion. The amount spent on military is around $650 billion. You do the math.
alan_static Well how about some things in the Farm Bill that could go. Its high time for the churches to belly up to the bar and pay their share. Thats right tax the churches. Your god wouldn't care.
Smitty, I have to wonder what J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, America's Best- Groomed Godhead, would think of that notion.
(Everybody else is wondering who in the hell I'm talking about.)
If churches are going to engage in lobbying; pastors and priests tell their 'flock' how to vote, and threaten them with damnation if they don't obey; donate their huge, tax-free fortunes to election campaigns and favoured candidates; and spread lies, hatred and fear via their almost-unregulated religious broadcasts; then yes, by God, TAX THE SCOUNDRELS UNTIL THEY SQUEAL!
I'm not even a Christian, and even I know that the notion of a 'man of God' enriching himself and living in opulence and worldly pride is loathsome in the sight of your God (my authority for that statement is the words of your own God, who you call Jesus Christ).
little history.
In 1998 there were 470 bases in 63 countries with 1.3 million staff and an operating budget of 470 billion
In 2011 there are over 900 bases in over 130 countries with over 2.5 million in staff at a budget of over 800 billion per year.
If you look at a world map....these bases just happen to consistently be near large natural resources whether water, mineral or oil.
These bases are the leading cause for us to lend "Foreign Aid" - because without the payoff to the host country they would not allow it. Foreign aid is not foreign aid - it's rent due.
Kevin, a hell of a lot more people should get acquainted with the information you just posted (jibes with my sources, pretty damn near to, anyway). More people should be asking more questions at higher volume about why Uncle Sam's overseas military establishment has actually expanded since the collapse of the U.S.S.R., liberation of Eastern Europe and Southwest Asia, and end of the Cold War.
Who is being benefitted financially by those bases being there? 'Tain't you or me!
US Foreign aid in 2010 (the last year accurate figures are available) was about $ 53 Billion.
The budget deficit for 2010 was $1,170 Billion.
In other words, foreign spending was less than 5% of the total deficit.
The reality is, there would be a need to cut ALL spending by the federal government, across the board, by an annual amount of about 5% AND increase taxes, just to eliminate the deficit. That would not eliminate the debt, just keep it from getting larger.
If we want to eliminate the debt, we need to do more.
Cutting spending won't do it (look at Greece and Spain) Austerity measures just exacerbate a fragile economy.
The bottom line is taxes on the top percent are going up, and we get the pleasure of watch Grover explode.
Will there be a Grover cam for that?
Hey you fluking idiots...where is the balance?? Where are the spending cuts? You liberal morons are a fraud and just want to tax everyone by vetoing anything brought to the table..."off the cliff" That is what obama wants and you little mindless lemmings will follow him anywhere. To bad the corrupt politicians will not be affected!! You voted him in...you will suffer like all of will. Idiots!!
Job1 we get the pleasure to watch grover explode.
That would be something to see.
We just got to see CT explode.
I'm up for that Job1!!!
Course before Grover does explode we ought to put him in the bathtub to lessen the impact of the explosion. Kinda' like they do when they fill scuba tanks.
Good News!!
Our right wing Governor Snyder vetoed a bill that would have allowed people to carry guns into day care centers, churches, and bars. Looks like this one was too toxic,.....even for our Furher, Rick Snyder. It was noted that Field Marshall Jace Bolger is "disappointed".
Still no word on proposed legislation to allow people to carry weapons into legislative offices. That somehow seems to have escaped the docket. A curious omission.
Yes, that will be fun to watch his beady little head turn beet red and his fists clench up just prior to the explosion. However, watch out for curled toes, that will be an explosion none of us want to see.
Hey Mo...thanks for your concern!! You libs are such a caring bunch. If you could only get your collective heads out of your butts, and see what is happening to our country and how the current administration is so intent on moving us to the "Euro-State" of mind. You know...Greece, Spain, etc. Enjoy the ride, you won't like the destination, and your children certainly won't!!
Mo - that was a disgusting post. You should be banned for something as filthy as that!
Mo - sorry CT is the abbreviation for Connecticut and I thought THAT was what you were referring to - not the poster CT - again my apologies!
That's OK SeekinSanity, I shouldn't have used that word. Sorry to anyone I offended.
Mo - just a little sensitive to all things CT these days! We WILL get through this!
SS, If you were not in such a hurry to ATTACK ... then you would not need to apologize.
Have a Merry Christmas !
Social Security does not add one penny to the debt or deficit. There is no reason to include Social Security in the negotiations. Anything that includes Social Security must be vetoed.
Grover Norquist must be running scared... He's also on the board at the NRA... Bad year for him, good year for the country... Now to get the Tea Party puppets voted out...
Steve Benen, The Maddow Blog:
With a deadline looming, the president started feeling more confident about reaching a deal he genuinely wants -- and is prepared to work towards in good faith -- which inevitably led him to start moving towards a middle ground between him and his rivals.
And that seems like a reasonable thing to do, except the moment Obama starts yielding from his previous positions, Republicans revert to form, asking, "What else can we get from this guy if we refuse to compromise and start threatening to do real harm to the country?"
Negotiations are supposed to follow a certain pattern, involving mutual compromises. That model probably needs to be thrown out the nearest White House window.
"This fight is not going to be won by the president taking a step towards Boehner, Boehner taking a step toward the president, the president taking a step toward Boehner, Boehner taking a step toward the president and so forth until they meet in the middle," Damon Silvers, policy director at the AFL-CIO, told Ezra. "That hasn't worked before. Boehner doesn't take the steps. It will be won by the president clearly siding with the American people on tax fairness and preserving the safety net from benefit cuts."
Jon Chait raised a point yesterday the political world would be wise to remember: "We are not dealing with rational people here. We are dealing with House Republicans."
Going off the cliff does not cut Social Security or Medicare...
The republicans made the cliff. Now we fall off the cliff. But republicans you got what you wanted that is cuts now you got them. So what if taxes go back to the Clinton rates. We all lived with them before we can do it again. Remember don't wish for things that you don't want because you will get them in the end. Did all you republicans want the cuts your going to get when we go off the cliff?
The GOP just will not let it go.
Even at 400K a year, that is 8 years of income for the average household in this country and they still are holding on 1 million (or 20 years of average US household income).
Wow... class warfare here. Certainly, we can raise taxes on those making over $1M. But unless King Obama comes off his throne to the real world, the middle class will be devastated by the tax increases coming. Politics is all about compromise. Neither Democrats nor Republicans have a monopoly on what is best. The middle road will serve us best and can be revised later on if needed.
Obama doesn't budge. Yet he foolishly acts as though he got a mandate from the election. It wasn't a landslide. We are in a divided country. a REAL leader would promote healing and unity. He still maintains the class warfare and unfunded entitlements. This is a recipe for disaster in the long run and will lead to the demise of America as a world leader.
I don't make $1M.... not even $250K... under $100K. I'm part of that middle class that gets the huge burdens without the benefits.
Someday, history will show Obama as being the poor president he is with lack of leadership, fiscal irresponsibility, corruption in his regime, his lack of action in Bengazi and his criminal coverups in Fast & Furious (think Nixon). I faint at the thought of his second term scandals.
You got all the Fox, Limbaugh, Lunz talking points in in one paragraph XD. Now crawl back under the rock you crawled out from under, because nobody cares what you have to say.
XD...you must be a racist if you do not fall in line with the rest of the lemmings on this site!!
Unfortunately, I believe history will show a lot more than the few examples of a failed administration that you mention. As you indicate...he is not done yet!! God help us!!
howy61: That is household income. The average wage for a single person is $24,364. That means it would take your average American worker 16 years to make that $400.000.
XDS/You can claim to be whatever you wish,but your political view point is Republican.Are you unaware of it or are you ashamed to admit it? I am Liberal Democrat. I have stated that fact many times.I do not call myself some other type of person to make a point.I am also quite aware of political philosophies As a layman only. We of the middle classes are paying most of the burden of this country and would like to see the rich paying their fair share.Surely you are aware of the huge advancement in the economics of the rich and the stagnant to even lowering of the standards of the other classes. The rich have been waging class warfare since the classes became aware of classes but now that we, the true pillars of society are also seeing that that is so and are responding too ,the rich say, no ,surrender your unjustified attitude.Unfortunately our attitude is not unjustified. Fair taxes for all and stop the unfair gifts to the rich under the guise of entitlements .They are making huge profits and are not entitled to more.
White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer discussing the "Plan B":
Ok...I'm not sure how he figures this out. If all rates below $1 million stay the same...and rates above a million increase...how does a millionaire get a tax break!? If you are opposed to it because it doesn't raise enough revenue, so be it. But saying that it results in tax breaks is a bit misleading.
Personally, I think they oughta just take their current proposals on increasing revenue and cutting spending and split the difference and be done with it. But unfortunately, nothing in Washington is ever that simple.
Frank, the theory is that ALL income below $1M would see a tax break and the tax rate increase would only apply to AGI (Adjusted Gross Income) ABOVE $1M. This means that the first million is taxed at the lower rate. So if a person was an AGI of 1.5M, they would only pay the higher tax rate on the $0.5 million that exceeds the "thresh-hold". THAT's how MILLIONAIRES would see a tax break of $50,000. If we go to what the President proposes, the first $400K of AGI would see the lower rates and that same millionaire would see a tax rate increase on $1.1M. This means that an additional $600,000 of income from that same theoretical millionaire would see the higher tax rates under the President's plan.
So this isn't a comparison of current rates to Plan B rates...this is a comparison of the President's plans to Plan B rates? I took his statement as saying that they would get a break in 2013 compared to what they are paying in 2012...which clearly they wouldn't. But yes, if we are comparing proposals for 2013 rates, then I can see it. Thanks for the response Cat. :-)
Nice response Frank as usual !!
Cheers
Grimey,
I had to read that a couple times myself and even with Cat's fine explanation it still makes no sense in the context of how the statement was made. Yikes.
Fuzzy government math as usual. Democrats declare a new high tax rate they want to put in place for incomes over $400k/yr, and when the Republicans counter with another plan to raise taxes on incomes over $1M/yr, Democrats claim that paying current tax rates on the difference between the 400k plan and 1M plan is a "tax break" over the proposal they made that no one has passed. Of course to the uninformed public they just read the statement as the Republicans trying to pass a tax cut. But it is a "cut" from a proposed rate that is not in effect and has not been voted on.
By the government's accounting system, they might as well claim that every cent any person in this nation takes home at the end of the day is a "tax break" over them confiscating all of it.
hiap, it's not a NEW tax rate, it's a return to the pre-Bush tax cuts. A NEW tax rate would mean above that older tax rate. The tax cuts that had passed before were temporary and WILL expire as of 12/31/12. It's not fuzzy government math as usual, it's a statement of what WILL happen vs the two plans that are out there to try to prevent those tax rates from going back up to what they were under Clinton. This tax rate return is part of what the Republicans agreed to during the debacle when they held our credit rating as a country hostage. Now they want to still play "our way or the highway". It's not going to happen this time. It's time for the un-elected leaders of the Republican party (Norquist, Limbaugh, Beck) to crawl back into their holes and leave politics ALONE.
Cat,
And yet continuing those same "Bush" tax cuts for the other 98% of Americans isn't being called a tax cut compared to allowing them to expire, they are being called "protecting the middle class."
It is not even a partisan arguement, it is just a fact that no household or business in America could possibly practice the accounting systems the Government works off of.
All parties do the same thing, when a number is big like a trillion dollar a year defecit and they want it to appear smaller, they refer to it alternatively like as a percentage of a larger number such as GDP. Or when they have a small number they want to appear big, such as a $100 billion dollar a year spending cut, they multiply the cut by ten years to say they are saving a trillion dollars.
Not to mention no business can say "well we used to sell this product for $10, but now people will only buy it for $8, so we will claim $2 of losses on our balance sheet for each unit." Which is pretty close to the govenment does when talking about tax rates.
hiap,
No household or business has the same accounting issues that the Government has, either. There are considerations in running a country that are vastly different to running a household or business budget. With a business, if it fails then people lose jobs but can get another one. If a household or business ends up in too much debt they can declare bankruptcy. A country can't declare bankruptcy. If a country fails, where are the people supposed to go live? Are they supposed to stay in their homes and wait for the new country to develop or the conquering country to come in and take over?
Dan Rather said that on Capitol Hill they say President Obama can be rolled for his watch and his wallet, therefore, he seemed to expect that he would throw Senior under the bus. He was right! We no longer have any confidence in him. He made promises that it appears he had no intention of keeping to those who elected him.
You do realize Dan Rather is an old man with no credibility at all. He just likes to get in front of a camera and pretend he knows what he's talking about. But I guess he can still fool people like you SandieLove.
sandielove Where do you come up with this $hit? Please tell us.
SandieLove - please cite the time and place Dan Rather made such a comment. I don't believe you for one moment.
And just why is anything Dan Rather says (or supposedly says) relevant to anything other than Dan Rather? I should believe he has some keen insight into the way of things because he read the news off of a teleprompter for 174 yeas?
CBS-News,
He should have said she’s my nominee, let’s take it to a vote. Because what has happened today plays into the perception, the perception that’s been growing among the Republicans that in street language, President Obama can be rolled for his wallet and his watch,” Rather said during an interview on the Rachel Maddow show on MSNBC. “He’s not a guy who’s going to put up much of a fight, even when he feels strongly about it, even when he has a strong emotional and loyalty quotient, won’t fight for it.”
Seeking - It appears he (Dan Rather) made the comment on the Rachel Maddow show. Here's the link http://cnsnews.com/news/article/dan-rather-obama-can-be-rolled-his-wallet-and-his-watch
BTW Mo, wasn't Dan Rather the darling of the left wingers when he was trying to trash Bush during the 2004 elections with the phony military records? Didn't he get caught lying and ended up being told to retire from the evening news?
Somebody needs to veto President Obama's cut to Social Security proposal. That somebody is we the people.
For those of you who claim that we spend, spend, spend, and eventually tax to pay for it: I would ask you who did the spending?
Now we pay for it is fine with me. Make sure the wealthy pay their fair share. That is as succinctly stated as I can put it!
Shout out to JudyAz - Hello There and Happy Holidays!!
Well said!!
'And since we've no place to go, status quo, status quo, status quo.'
Just in a holiday mood, I guess.
I don't understand what the issue is here. Let the Bush tax cuts expire for everyone and the tax code will simply revert to Clinton Era levels . . . you know the time of prosperity and surpluses. The real issue here is the left and President Obama have spent the better part of the last decade demonizing the tax cuts as only helping the rich and there is know way they want their younger voters to know the truth. An entire generation of taxpayers has been raised on the mantra that the Bush tax cuts only benefit the rich. Let them expire. I look forward to the collective gasp of the 20 -30 somethings that compromise the Democratic voting base when they have the opportunity to experience the truth.
Cut military / defense spending 75%
And everything else 25% across the board.
Then learn to speak Chinese and expect terrorist attacks on American soil.
So XD Shooter after nothing else worked this morning you're going to try fear mongering. Typical republican.
The American people deseve what they voted for, and they are certainly going to get it from the President. He is excellent at just say no and the spending of OPM. Going "over the cliff" may be the only way to get the electorate to wake up to the concept that OPM is a limited resource and that we are all one of those "other people".