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Subscribe to RSSHouse Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said Tuesday that she backs President Barack Obama's newest proposal to avert the fiscal cliff, defying some progressive Democrats who object to an included cost-of-living calculation that could effectively cut entitlement benefits to Social Security recipients.
Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., shares her thoughts the mass shooting in Newtown and the fiscal cliff negotiations on Capitol Hill.
Asked by NBC's Andrea Mitchell if she believes she can rally enough Democratic support to pass the White House's plan, Pelosi responded "Yes, I do."
"I believe the president has demonstrated great leadership in what he put forth," she said, arguing that the White House plan would help avert the cliff, create consumer confidence and avoid a credit rating downgrade.
Pelosi pushed back on progressive opponents of one compromise measure that would modify the way cost-of-living increases are calculated to determine Society Security payments. While some in the Democratic Party say that the change -- called "chained CPI" -- would effectively cut Social Security payments, the minority leader said Tuesday that the effects on poor recipients would be minimal once all of the specifics of the deal are worked out.
"The details of this are not all ironed out, but they all mitigate for helping the poorest and neediest in our society, whether they are [Supplemental Security Income] recipients, whether they're 80 and older, or whether they're truly needy," she said.
But, she added, she would join some of those progressive Democrats in opposing an increase in the Medicare eligibility age.
Kevin Lamarque / Reuters
U.S. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi speaks to reporters in the Capitol in Washington December 13, 2012.
Pelosi also came out against House Speaker John Boehner's "Plan B" proposal earlier Tuesday to push a standalone measure that would address tax rates for earners under $1 million.
"Plan B, I would call it 'Plan Befuddled," she said of Boehner's suggestion, adding that the measure cannot pass both houses of Congress.
'It's a tactic, but it's not a serious proposal," she said.
Republicans have pointed out that Pelosi herself suggested in May that tax rates should be maintained for all earners under $1 million, the same threshold that Boehner offered today.
Pelosi said Tuesday that her own proposal was in part a way to "smoke out" the opposition in getting Republicans to agree to at least some rate hikes, a move that they have now made in -- Pelosi argues -- a victory for the president.
"I'm glad he's taking up some of my suggestions," she said of Boehner. 'My next suggestion would be to put something on the table - as we were suggesting then to smoke out the Republicans - at what level would you raise the rates on the wealthiest people in this country? Not 'would you raise them at a million dollars?' That was the point of that exercise."
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Was she asked about defense spending cuts? I wasn't able to watch the interview.
I don't know, Pat. I hope there will be spending cuts to defense. I hope the president stays at 400k. That seems reasonable enough to me. Everyone's taxes would stay the same up to that amount. Those making over that amount would pay a little more on the amount over the 400k. I agree with Nancy in not raising the eligibility age.
AlaskaGirl, I agree with you. $250,000 I always thought was going to be at the front lines for compromise. So the $400,000 doesn't bother me; I was actually expecting it.
We all need to hang tight. We have a great president who needs to hear from us right now concerning defense cuts.
Republicans and Democrats.
Debt ceiling negotiations Approval/Disapproval
Republicans: 17%/69% [-52]
Pres Obama: 38%/50% [-12]
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57559686-10391739/poll-50-percent-think-fiscal-cliff-deal-possible-by-years-end/?pageNum=2
We need a leader who doesn't go whatever the way the polls blow. Let's see how his approval changes when so many more have to pay taxes and lose jobs as he allows the fiscal cliff and is seen surfing in Hawaii.
No Pat - defense cuts were not discussed by Nancy in this video clip. Annoyingly, I did have to suffer through Andrea yammer on about what are we going to do with these depressed x-Box gamers that pick up SOB Tommy-guns and commit mass murders. Obviously, Andrea seems to side with the NRA talking point - guns don't kill people; x-Box games kill people.
RedDev, it's what I expect from Andrea unfortunately. She spent a month siding with the GOP on the Susan Rice story.
Aww, crap, it takes Andrea a friggin month just to spit out what she's trying to say. Of all the greats on MSNBC, she is my very least favorite.
RedDev: It's anything to deflect from gun issues. The gun lovers will always try and point to anything and everything else.
It's a shame that lifting the ceiling for how much income pays into SS (currently around $107,000) is never discussed. Just lift the cap and viola, SS is fixed without cutting payments to any seniors.
The fact that they'll cut SS payments before cutting military spending is ALSO quite telling...
Watermoon,
Thank God the President doesn't have to answer to people like you. He won and your guy lost. So, it will be the President calling the shots.
Remember, if we go off the cliff, the public will blame the Republicans-Tea Baggers for not working with the President.
OMG I agree with the liberals posts today! If we have to raise taxes then 400k seems like an ok place to start. If you are making that your more than some small struggling business owner. In reponse to everyone calling for defense spending cuts, I agree. However cuts should be made across the board for everything.
One ridiculous item our wonderful government spent money on in 2012 was over half a million dollars to fix a bridge that closed down to traffic in 2003 that goes nowhere. it doesn't even have roads that go to it. It literally is less than 100 feet long and looks like a one of those bridges in a a jigsaw puzzle. Stevenson Road Covered Bridge in Green County, Ohio is the name of it. Check it out. That is just one example of hundreds of money that has been flushed down the toilet. If we didn't waste money left and right then we wouldn't need tax hikes on anyone. In fact I would like someone to please lower my taxes.
In May of this year Rep. Pelosi suggested raising taxes on incomes over $1 million, now she is saying that is not good. I guess the flip flop in Washington goes on.
Pelosi wants a permanent extension of the Bush tax cuts for incomes up to $1 million, the statement said.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/05/24/489769/pelosi-tax-cut-millionaires/?mobile=nc
Across the board cuts are dangerous and don't take into account the funding that may actually be required to get a job done. Maybe we can afford a cut of 10% or more in highway funding, but do you really want to cut CDC, FBI or other health/safety funding by an arbitrary amount?
For all the "my party is winning" posters, what you see is compromise and a willingness to work together. Peolsi running her yap about this being a victory for the president is so messed up. I am tired of her beating that drum over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over!!!
Neither side will come out with everything they wanted. Neither side will loose everything they fought for. The winners will be ALL OF US, you and I, citizens of the once "United States of America". Get over crap that started in congress in January 2007 and get back to working together! That goes for congress, and Newsvine posters!
I wonder if there wasn't enough support by Democrats to pass the presidents fiscal cliff plan, if liberals would call them racist?
Job1 said,
"Remember, if we go off the cliff, the public will blame the Republicans-Tea Baggers for not working with the President."
Job, you can say that all you want but from what I'm seeing it's the president who's saying no, no, no to every offer from the republicans...
Sooner or later the public will figure out that Obama doesn't want to make a deal because as you said "if we go off the cliff, the public will blame the Republicans" and the only ones who will really lose are the American people!!
I want us to go over the cliff and then pick up the pieces and maybe we can get something done with tax reform, entitlements, defense, obamacare, spending in general... we have get the debt under control or everybody loses!!
There's a reason Pelosi was fired from her job as Speaker of the House. She still doesn't understand why. Smoke 'em out?
Nancy Pelosi was a GREAT at her job as Speaker of the House. She never lost a vote.
Job - are you serious? I mean, I don't agree with the job Beohner has been doing, but personally, I think all 4 leading House/Senate leaders should step down. they just embarass themselves.
job1 -- i'll take your word on never losing a vote but her poor leadership resulted in the largest turnover of house seats in history -- she lost her job as speaker.
do you wonder if she ever read the aca? do you think she really knew about all the new bureaucracy and tax increases and simply lied about it?
You are correct on the never lost a vote part. That is the primary reason we are closing in on 17 trillion in debt.
Some good post today. Is it just me, or are people settling down in here some? It seems that maybe we are coming to the center now. Maybe After Friday, we all remembered we are all Americans again. Seeing all those faces of those baby's and the teachers that loved them so much that they gave up there life for them. Those were true hero's, True Americans. I would like to know if they were union teachers?
Having said that. Now is the time for all good Americans to come to the Aid of there country. We have put man on the moon many times. We have put machine on Mars. We have shown we can kill People by the 10's of thousand. Now can we prove that we can live in peace?? Can we protect our children while they are in school, at the mall or in a move theater. Can we prove that we are once again a Representative Government of WE THE PEOPLE. I know all Rep's are not rich, nor are all Dem's. There are just as many Rep's on SS and Medicare and Medicade. We need to come up with something fare.
I think maybe we raise the rates on $500k and up. That's in the middle, I think we can do means testing as to what people should have to pay out of pocket for health care. Rich people can surly pay more. People that are just getting by shouldn't have to pay anything. Put to that means, We have to stop the Dr. from ordering test after test, sending us to other Dr. for second options. This is just there way of spreading wealth around. No telling what we could save if we just stop the Fraud. Same with these Med's. No one helps a person get better anymore. They manage us. There is why we can't afford health care. I have type 2 diabetes. One pill I take drives up my sugar, then the second pill drives it back down. No one wants to make a pill that will cure us, no Matter what the illness is. Do you really think they can't cure diabetes, Cancer, or anything else. When they cure us we don't need them any more. No more pills. That would kill off the Medical industry as we know it. Think back people, do any of you remember when a guy built a Carburetor in the 70's that would make a car get something like 100 MPG. That got bought up and locked away dam fast. There was a guy that made a generator that would put out 150% of the energy you put into it. Man the power company's got read of that when he went to get a Patton. Free energy isn't what the country wanted i guess. We can solve all the problems this country has, if we can just get big business out of the way. Free inter prize, don't mean cheap anything. So to drive down health care cost, We need to Government to take over R&D for the Med's we need to cure us. Why should these Company's that just keeps us hooked on there med's get to make such profits for committing such a fraud on us. Why should Insurance company's get to take our money and then denies our claims. The people that say we need smaller Government are the ones that don't want Government holding them accountable. Ie the Rich.
So Tax the rich, Make free market really free. stop the Fraud. Stop the wars, Cut Military spending in Half and stop fighting others wars for them. Let Israel go fight Iran, that's there war not ours. Start making company's that pollute land water and air pay for the clean up. And for God sake less have some real gun control. No one needs these Assault weapons, Unless you live on the boarder of Mexico. Now there you need them and more. We can balance the budget if we can get the rich off the Government Tit.
The president calls the shots? Please, oh please show me that in the US Constitution, Please.
No matter what happens, the repubs will take the blame, it's obama's policy. I intend to vote a straight dem ticket in the mid terms. The country needs the dems to be in control so they can own the disaster that is going to happen.
drowning -- what is a viola going to do for us? are you going to play it or ride it down a river?
It's not rocket science.
What ever the cut-off for tax rates on the first $250, $400, or 1 million earned, this should be the same amount for the FICA with-holding for Social Security and Medicare contributions. Right now the cap is at $110,000 -- which is the richest 5%. Those in the richest 2% earning $250K up to 1 million will still cash in and collect Social Security and Medicare, so why not pay into these systems on ALL of their damn income?
In regard to tax credits, get rid of the capital gains/carried interest first, corporate welfare, and keep the estate tax. Then get rid of all tax credits for everyone except charitable contribution, but change that so Mitt Romney can't keep paying zero taxes.
As for Boehner boohooing about spending cuts, I can only hope most Americans remember the last raw deal in which there was already a sh!tload of spending cuts. To make the cut to revenue ratio accurate, he needs to add the earlier cuts to the totals he is spinning about now. And of course as already mentioned by other many times, what about defense spending?
But in the end, the GOP plans that can't be passed in both chambers -- It's the same chicken crap just a different day. The voters have spoken, and apparently need to speak even louder. I hope the Teapublicans lose more seats in the 2014 mid-term.
You can thank W Bush for that. He ran the bar tab up and skipped out on the check.
TruePatriot-445959,
So you suggest increase the 7% SS tax on top of the 3.7% increase (from the ACA), on top of the top tax rate increase to 39.4% (as suggested by Obama). That would mean the tax goes to a federal 50.1% top tax rate. This also doesn't include the state income tax rate (like Illinois, 10%), which may not be deductible.
So you think it is a good idea to have an effective tax rate of 60%?
On top of this, it is proposed that they not receive Medicare or SS due to means testing. Pretty hard to force somebody to pay for something they are ineligible to receive. I guess you can no longer say people are taking out what they put in...
Gboy-3109136 -- No person, and certainly no politician or Party is pure as the driven snow. But please stop with the false equivalency. In her first term, Pelosi and the Dems passed over 400 bills, most of which were heavy-lift legislation.
Boehner, et al, work two weeks for every week off, with the pre-meditated "strategery" to be a Do Nothing Congress, and to obstruct everything. Boehner passed less than 50 bills, most of which were piddly-arse naming of buildings or commemorative coins and such nonsense.
There's NO comparison, not even remotely. The same goes for the last debt ceiling debacle. The American people realize the Teapublicans (led by bat-crap crazy Michele Bachmann who wanted to default on our debt) are the reason we lost our credit rating.
I double dare Boehner and the Cantor Crazies to try their hostage-taking, or just time wasting symbolism again. They already deserve to lose even more seats in the 2014 mid-term. I'm fired up and ready to go, that's for sure.
armurray -- Where did I say any of that diatribe? Let the top rates go back to what they were during Clinton -- very tiny percent really. That was the Bush Tax Cuts in 2001. Then get rid of the Bush Tax Cuts of 2003 that allows all the loopholes for only the very rich (capital gains, etc.). Then get rid of all tax credits except charitable contributions, because this is unfair redistribution of wealth among the working class (single childless renters versus large families with a mortgage). Get it?
17% ACROSS THE BOARD pay cut for ALL of Congress, VP & Prez...... give for the cause Nancy & Barry
"Steve-446003
17% ACROSS THE BOARD pay cut for ALL of Congress, VP & Prez...... give for the cause Nancy & Barry"
MAn, I totally agree with this statement..actually..the % should be higher for all of congress. I find it interesting that congress can vote itself any type of raise it sees fit or thinks it gets by with. While cutting anyone elses raise as little as it might be. Cutting thise in need yet protecting the wealthy is all the game plan congress has or uses. None of the wealthy would be wealthy if not for the working citizens who make and by the goods those wealthy control the profits from. We have also a congress made up almost completely of wealthy who care more about their wealthy donor friends than the voting public who pays them.
Some better test the water. Libs have used the word 'great' to describe Pelosi and Oblama.
If this were not so ridiculous, it would be funny.
Hmmmm, put this paragraph into your memory bank.
Sounds a lot like "We won't know what is in it until we pass it".
And during the interview Peloski stated that Mrs. Clinton would probably be a better President than Washington, Jefferson, or Adams.
Peloski continues to make Progressive history with her comments.
its not in the Constitution and they know it. Job1 is a lot like the rest of the FR lefties on here. Low info wishing for Police State. dumb sheep
I think that a lot of you that are talking about defense cuts are forgetting that defense spending will happen on Jan 1,2013 thanks to the sequestration by $500 billion which by the way the Republicans are trying to wiggle into the "fiscal cliff" deal.
Damn right girl. you go Pelosi, don't you stand up to the repubs. You go ahead and help them to keep the elderly and the disabled in proverty. All of you rich politicians want these people to die asap so you will not have to pay back the money you have stolen from all of these people since you robbed the fund.
After the dems get their symbolic tax the rich tax increase, no meaningful spending cuts are made, deficits continue, and the national debt continues skyrocketing toward $20 Trillion; who will be tapped next for their "Fair Share"?
The libs/dems, particularly the "takers", will start targeting anyone that makes more money than them. First, it will be back to $250,000, then any 6-figure income, then $75,000, and then probably level off at around $50,000. As long as they can continue to receive their "free stuff", the "takers" will target anyone who they perceive is better off than them. Success in America has been successfully vilified by the Democratic Party. As Alinsky stated in his book "Rules for Radicals", "RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.". At some point, the number of "takers" will outnumber the "givers"; the question will then be what to cut and who to drop off the rolls since there will be no one left to tax (e.g., Give).
Social security period should not be part of this conversation. If people can actually get jobs again that pay decent wages, social security will be fine. The govt is bankrupting it as they bankrupted the Post Office, using the money to invest that people paid in, then not wanting to pay it back with interest. Why not have an honest conversation?
Social security is a necessity now more than ever, especially with the attack on labor, wages, and pensions. Isn't it strange that govt wants to come down on people who work but they don't want to on Banks, Corporations, the Oil Industry, or Defense? It seems like WORKING has become a disrepected condition.
Nancy - take the deal. When the GOP loses the House in 2014, repeal the CPI for SS. This needs to be put to bed so other pressing issues can be addressed.
For 2013 my Social Security COLA increase was 1.7% however my Medicare premium was 3 times that percentage increase and John Boehner was to change the COLA formula (CPI index) so that the increase is smaller.
At this rate in a few years your Social Security monthly check won't even cover your Medicare premium payment.
So let Obama and Reid propose cuts somewhere else then. GAO says that there is 180 billion wasted through duplication in the federal bureaucracy. Let Obama tell his department heads to cut 10-15% from their budgets and cut this waste! But it is stupid to tax those who are producing just to get enough funds to run the bloated wasteful bureaucraacy for 10 days!
Dennis .. thanks for pointing that out. I misunderstood and thought the CPI index applied to both SS and Medicare increases.
Unfortunately, the Democrats won't take the house in 2014 cause that @!$%#'s been so gerrymandered it's basically locked into GOP control for decades. Hell, in THIS election the votes cast in favor of house Democrats was like 60-40, yet the GOP retained complete lockdown control.
I still don't get why there is even an argument on raising taxes on the rich that will fund the gov't for 10 days.... What needs to be done is cut spending across the board. Period.
DrowningGrover, I think the margins were closer to 51-49. A real 60-40 split would probably flip the house no matter how Gerrymandered it is.
Winning the House outright in 2014 will be a tall order, but gaining significant ground is well within the purview of doable and likely. Gain another 8 seats or so, like the Dems did this time, and the GOP majority becomes razor thin, and it becomes increasingly possible to peel off a handful of rational Republicans (yeah, yeah, it is perhaps overly optimistic to imagine such people still exist, but still) to get things done.
There is another reason we are so far in debt. Dems make deals then back out as soon as they can to spend. spend spend. If they could stay in power for 16 or more years, they could bankrupt us. After the reveloution we could start over.
There would be far less money spent on "entitlements" if the entitlements were being spent on U.S. citizens and not illegal immigrants and their children. It is time for immigration reform and the money that is generated could help offset their costs. It is time for the free ride to end.
All this from a party hack who said we have to pass a bill to know what's in it.....and.......after having it passed she STILL doesn't know what's in it!!!
It's the Democratic way my friend!
All rainbows and unicorns... leave the dirty details of actually making it work to someone else. ;-)
Or, as the full quote is read, “We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it away from the fog of the controversy.”
but but Nancy Pelosi is the bestest!!!
:o)
Yeah that is a much better statement. Forget removing the fog first hence no controversy, libs shooting from the hip then whining about it.
Obama is driving us over the cliff. He ahd promised 3 -1 spending cuts over ta rte increases and now he is offering virtually nothing in spending cuts. We and our children are better off with the cuts mandated by the "cliff" and once more people have to pay taxes maybe they willl wake up and beging to go after these lying liberal leaders. At least the "cliff" will cut back some on the deficits even as hey make us impotent militarily. Hell, Obama has pretty much done that anyway.
Actually, the President has saved us from the do nothing Republican-Tea Bag party. I can't wait to see old Grover explode when the taxes go up on the top 2%. It's about time they pay their share.
We are so tired of these people putting the budget problem on the back of the working class and the rich not being asked to pay one penny more in taxes. To raise Medicare to 67 can not and will not happen.
When the Republicans stall on not wanting to give the 98% restored tax cuts, that act will prove what total POS rat b@stard$, they the Republicans in office are, and the public will blame these do nothing Republicans-Tea Baggers in Congress..
No the President has not saved us but put us in this predicament by his childish games you either do it my way or I am going to take my ball and go home and hope the media covers my but which they have done so well so far.
Am I the only one to whom it seems obvious that the people who benefitted the most from the economic policies that destroyed our economy should be the ones to contribute the most to fixing it? Why are we fighting over ways to squeeze more money out of the people who lost the most as a result of the economic policies of the last several decades? The millionaires will barely notice a few percentage points increase in their taxes, whereas with the increase in Medicare and other health care costs and a decrease in benefits, most of my Social Security goes towards health care. How am I supposed to eat?
When Clinton was President the country seemed to have enough money to pay for running the country, supporting our vulnerable and maintaining our infrastructure. What happened? How come everything suddenly costs so much more that now we can't afford any of that, and we have to rob our vulnerable? It doesn't make sense.
Job1,
How much is their fair share as the top 5% are paying around 50% of the taxes? Also when Medicare and Social Security were started the life expectancy was much lower so it only makes sense to raise the age as people are living longer and we as a country cannot afford it.
Heartlight - When Clinton was President, it cost a lot less to run the country. If we go back to those spending levels, adjusted for inflation, and use the revenue proposal the Speaker has proposed, we could balance the budget without a problem. The real problem is on the spending side.
Jerry,
They pay most of the taxes but have an even higher percentage of the wealth. Fair is fair
Frugal It matters not who has a "higher percentage of the wealth"!!! We tax INCOME, not WEALTH! There is a difference. Much of this "wealth" (not all) has been taxed as earned.
Frugal,
It still does not answer the question of what do you think their fare share is. I hear all the time their fair share but nobody defines it. My family income is over $250,000 and we pay 21%, is that fair or not enough?
This should we, should we not ,on taxes and the rich,ignores the fact that can not be hidden.The wealth of the rich is now increasing by unheard of percentages and the ordinary citizens wages, one can't say wealth has stagnated. The rich and their slavish uncle toms can't hide this fact and their stated reasons for these facts are not only ridiculous ,but more and more of us are seeing just how unfair and dangerous this is. For our so called Employee /Representatives to be considering ,once more, making the majority suffer yet arguing on whether the super rich and big business have their unwarranted rewards for making vast profits for their stock holders should or should not be continued . Are our Employee/Reps. determined to continue their attempts to destroy our nation? They instituted an unneeded Un-American Investigation in the nineteen fifties, but they should have a new one started now with themselves investigated.
I say raise SSI and Medicare recipient age to 70 for those age 60 and under and make the COLA-adjustments more realistic (read: not this chained CPI nonsense of "if you have no bread, eat cake!")
...But simultaneously, completely remove the cap on income in the payroll tax. Why should income above ~100K be exempted from contributing to these funds?
No way, Libs are like Veruca Salt. They want it all and they want it now
Seriously? What you want is another welfare program and another mechanism for wealth transfer!!!! Why not remove the cap? Because benefits are capped and benefits are supposed to be roughly proportional to contributions!
Everyone should pay the same for each dollarr of benefit!!!!
Need to see them gobberment spending cuts.
Obama had beter not make any deal with the Republican Taliban. Go over the cliff if you have to, but NO deals with the Taliban.
That is what has gotten us into this mess, it is my way or the highway. Whatever happened to negotiate, I give up some and you give up some and we compromise.
It looks to me like the Dems have compromised and compromised over the last four years. The few things that have passed have ended up being recycled Republican policies because the Dems have compromised them so much. When are the Republicans going to compromise?
Dan T. I think that you must be very confused. Obama won the Election, It is his way or the Highway if he has any Backbone at all. If I were him, I would not deal with the Republicans at all. The Republicans did everything that they could do to Obama during his first Tenure of President. I cant really say how I feel about the Republicans on this thread, because I would more than likely get kicked off. Obama. Stand up for what is Correct, and the Republicans certainly are not correct about anything. Obama, Remember, you are the President, not the Republican Taliban.
Boehner had better not make any deal with the Democrat Taliban. Go over the cliff if you have to, but NO deals with the Democrat Taliban.
Resonse to sonmanvb
I wholeheartedly agree! Everytime the Reps agree to a compromise (read: tax increase now for spending cuts later), they have ALWAYS ended up with the short end of the stick. I would rather go over the cliff even though it means that my tax rates will go up, BUT it means that spending cuts will also occur. Not too happy with the Defense cuts, but if it means that other cuts occur, I am all for it. Unemployment benefits need to revert back to 26 months State and then 26 months Federal - PERIOD! The Payrol Tax needs to revert to what it was. I worked 2 to 3 jobs (4 at one point in my career to make ends meet); you do what it takes to support your family - the Government is NOT the answer. All I can say is, "Bottoms Up!"
Tell both the Progressives and Tea Party people to sit down, shut up and get with the program. They have a country to save, not their agenda. If they don't like the politics, then resign and let someone else do it.
That would mean that Obama has to shut up
If you id10t's would actually listen to the Tea Party, it would save the country and Dan T is correct. Obama needs to shut up and do what the Tea party tells him to do. He would end up being the president that really saved the country. But as it stands now, he will be the president that ruined the greatest country the world has ever seen.
Sonmanvb. The tea party is ruining this country. The Republicans during Chaneys Presidential role ruined the United States. Cut Taxes for the Rich. Two unfunded wars. Unfunded Prescription Plan. Deficits dont matter. All Republican Leaders are clowns, and the joke is on the American taxpayers. Bush actually had the title of president, but Chaney was the real hit man who ruined America, Chaney painted aa picture of Bush and Haliburton taking over all oil fields in Iraq, and that was the only reason for that war. Bush, Chaney should be charged in the Hague for war crimes against Humanity.
"Plan B, I would call it 'Plan Befuddled," she said of Boehner's suggestion, adding that the measure cannot pass both houses of Congress.
'It's a tactic, but it's not a serious proposal," she said.
OMG....she doesn't even want to support her own proposal of a year ago..........She's not capable of thinking for herself......What a fake she and that entire party have become....The Empty Suit must have some sort of mind control on these sheep......No matter the outcome....your party owns this.....Oh how you own this.....
The reason the Constitution allows us to own guns was a way of ensuring that the Gov couldnt control the people. Thus to protect us from people like Obama.
And that fact alone and given how many of us own guns (both liberal and consrervatives) is the 1 reason there will never be Gun Control (taking guns away from us) the people wouldnt allow it .. want a revolution > that will do it ... it would make the civil war look like a snow-ball fight.
A bag of rocks is an assault weapon if your the one being hit by the rocks.
BTW > officially there are no guns with the name Assault Weapons ... it is a made of term from the left.
Here Here Texas. . .
Response to Texas A&I
I never owned a weapon even though I am very proficient at using them, UNITL Obama was elected. As the late Charlton Heston so famously quoted, "From my cold, dead hands". I will definitely not go peacefully into the night. This administration does not know what they are messing with if they go after the right to own a gun.
xavier bond
So you believe that the Bushmaster with a 30 round clip is good to shoot tin cans and little kids? Good for you. Why don't you join the army, goe to Afghanstan and shoot some kids, women and anyting that moves.
texas a&i
The Constitution 2nd ammendment was to get people to own muskets to fight the Red Coats, not the government. Oh, I know, you don't believe in the Constitution, that is the document that allows for a government. You need to take a civics course.
Just when there seems to be headway in fiscal negotiations, Rep. Pelosi has to speak her mind? She's less flexible than either Sen. McConnell or Sen. Reid.
May be the arthritis?
Pelosi is a scum sucking lying windbag. She manipulates legislation to enrich herself and cares nothing about Americans. Hey bitch, how about a budget? Why is it politicians can break the law and get away with it? This whole crowd needs to receive no pay until they do their friggin jobs. And that includes the clown in the White House.
Texas A&I...Pay attention, this article has NOTHING to do with gun control. There are many, many other articles and threads on the subject elsewhere on NBC today. And exactly how is Obama trying to "control" the people? My guess is it's because he wants healthcare for everyone, and he wants to cover birth control. Am I wrong?
All liberals are wrong ECF. There is no where in the constitution that gives the federal government the authority to control our health care and to give away free birth control/abortions.
The Constitution Applies to EVERYTHING that involves a President or Congress.
Response to TexasA&I
Yes, the Constitution does apply to Everything that involves the pResident or CONgress, but it ALSO does stipulate the limits to those powers. I feel that the States are being remiss in challenging both the president and congress on their attempts to usurp States' Rights. Let's address those powers that were given to the Federal Government; Healthcare was not one of them. Neither is welfare, foodstamps, social security, medicare, medicaid, etc. These are ALL congress-made under "general welfare". If the politicos want these services to be included in the Constitution (e.g., a "Right"), then let's submit an Amendment to the Constitution, have it Approved by 2/3'rds of each House of Congress, and ratified by the States as the Constitution stipulates. We, the American people, have allowed the Feds to assume more and more power without question, and as Benjamin Franklin so eloquently stated, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.".
What is the Fiscal Cliff to a Democrat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hb5T-yHuEk
Fine with me, means testing for SS recipients is ok by me.
So long as we end the cut-off for the wealthy for them to avoid paying a fair share of SS!
The cut off for SS is set for a reason. The people that make more than $107,000 a year don't need SS. they can create thier own retirement plan. So what is the "fair share" for the "rich" to have to pay into your SS? Give us a number.
Everyone else is taxes on their 100%, why not those who make far more? Why is that 'unfair?'
Response to Fred Evil:
Okay tax me at 100% of my income, but then ALSO also allow me to receive Social Security payments comensurate to what I contributed. Otherwise, what is Fair about that? What you are advocating is raising the limit for "contribution" but keeping the cap on distributions. What you are attempting to suggest is that the only benefit I might realize are those benefits up to the current cap; anything above that, high wage earners are supposed to eat. Of course, anything for the good of the country and our fellow Americans, right?!?! This is redistribution of wealth at its worst.
Xavier What Fred is advocating is another welfare program and another mechanism for wealth transfer!!!
For all of you shrill moaners out there (Pigotry, Feisty Redhead, Job1, etc.) I hate to break this to you. There is no "winner" or "loser" in this current situation. We have a serious budget issue, and all of this posturing by BOTH SIDES is a bunch of crap! Neither proposal is going to do anything to help our deficit, let alone our debt (which was at $16 Trillion and counting last time I checked).
Our leaders, who were elected (whether we like it or not) are supposed to be leading, not playing the blame game and one-upmanship that they are doing right now.
Time for some shared sacrific by EVERYONE. Let's go back to the Clinton tax rates for EVERYONE and make dividends and capital gains taxed as ordinary income. Throw out all of the credits, etc. including the "Payroll Tax Credit" which by any other name is: "Have someone else pay 30% of my SS contributions".
We need some serious people here, with straight facts and meaningful decisions. We definitetly don't need name calling, etc.
Please, someone tell me where I'm going wrong on this.... I just don't see another reasonable, logical way to dig us out of this mess. I'm neither Democrat or GOP, just an independent that doesn't want his grandchildren inheriting a US version of Greece.
Oink.
But the GOP wants to win it for its corporate donors and screw the middle class.
If the gov. would pay all the people unemployed say fourteen million of them, 800 dollars each week tax free, for two years it would cost 1,164,800,000,000 dollars. This would, stimulate the economy, boost manufacturing, create jobs and increase tax revenue. It could, lift real estate markets and help to increase , construction jobs. This would save money, by stopping all food stamps for these people, and unemployment money Also, it could reduce the amounts they pay in food stamps and other help later, If they were to apply, for this in the future, through means testing them at that time ! allow them to find work, as they collect this money, but, pay regular taxes on any money earned. This would create more tax revenue, This would strengthen the middle class workers, while saving Federal and States money; As it makes the base of our economy stronger. Also, if they take 20% from the 800 dollars from the top and give it to the states every week, it would be 2,240,000,000 dollars each week going to states,to help them balance their budget deficits and hire workers. This would create more good paying jobs and stimulate business. Also, it would create more tax revenues and this all would help to fund, SS and Medicare. Being optimistic, I think it would bring the GDP numbers up to around 7 or 8 %, during this time.The government, would have a better environment to cut waste and spending during these two years. Also, It could save the gov. money , when the health care goes into effect because, at that time many would be able to pay more for their health care. There are other benefits in this plan not mentioned, but this would get the country back on track, and it would more then pay for itself.
Also, They should still tax the 2% and , still cut waste and spending to pay down the budget deficit! They should also have the banks, corporations, oil, big business and millionaires, and billionaires pay cash money on a sliding scale to pay on the budget deficit!
Everyone making under 50K would quit their jobs. And then what?
And after 2 years, all the slackers that spent EVERY dime of their "income" (handout) will just say... give me more.
How about this... since people on unemployment and welfare are getting paid for doing nothing, why not give them jobs in order to receive assistance.
How about they start doing highway cleanup and school campus security? We are paying them... why not get some work out of it. This would mean people would have to EARN their handout.
djo This is done in other countries!!
djo-34 ; The national debt is around 16 trillion dollars , millions of hard working people, have been out of work for years now! Everyone making 50k would not quit their jobs, They would have a more secure job, and the GDP would go way up, under this plan. Manufacturing, retail, housing, construction and more. The budget deficit would be paid off in only a few months, saving around 450 billion dollars per year; that alone would amount to 4.5 trillion dollars over ten years. The savings on food stamps, housing subsidies, and other aid would be a lot of money saved. The taxes this would generate would help SS and Medicare, The country would be able to balance the budget If you do not understand how this plan would work, you need to go back to school, and take a course in economics. If they would do this and start cutting waste, and spend within a budget this country could be debt free in twenty years with no problem. Don't worry about someone getting the help they need after this man made recession wiped them out! The only thing stopping this country from being great is greed. Greed will destroy a country from within if we do not wake up before its to late. Also, the wealthy and the top earners would benefit as much as anyone if they do something like this.
The President has a plan that Minority Leader Pelosi can agree to support and that Speaker Boehner can agree to support now get it done. Leaders Pelosi and Boehner, rally your troops and get the job done for once.
I do not think Pelosi will have much trouble, most Democrats in the House can be moderate enough. the Tea Party is the problem and I do not think Cantor, Paul, and Boehner are going to be enough man power to wrangle that herd of cats.
I'm for driving off the cliff...Everyone's taxes go up 3-4%! At the same time we should cut all federal spending 5%, including entitlements and a federal employee layoff for good measure. Then we will be getting somewhere!
Right you are. Strap on your parachutes
Except if you have been paying attention you would know we would be in another recession and then Republicans would be complaining like 2 year olds again. We just barely got it through their heads that we are not in a recession right now, I really do not want to crack open the whine bottle so soon after such an accomplishment. And we are also all out of cheese.
Geowil,
And republicans still don't believe you. I'm not a republican and I don't believe you either. We are in a recession, regardless of whether you want to admit it or not. Its actually been a depression but it has been cushioned by flooding the market place with trillions of worthless dollars.
The whole tax issue could be solved if the middle class hadn't been destroyed. Don't tell me that didn't happen. And I bet there aren't 47.7 million people on food stamps last count either. Course, that's not counting food banks. Those 47.7 million must be malcontent republicans, right? But here's the real deal, it sounds like you wnat everything to run through DC first and then trickle down to the workers. And that is exactly what you will have if you continue on this path.
sygh,
it depends on where you live. Nationally we are in a recovery and most data points corroborate this. House prices are rising, UE is going down, consumer confidence is increasing, the stock market is holding steady and occasionally has some rises and dips but nothing too aggressive.
The only thing causing fake uncertainty right now is the Fiscal Cliff and the Europe situation. If not for those the markets would be higher.
State by state is a different story but how each state is doing individually does not really matter in macroeconomics. No matter how much you want to say things are not getting better data cannot be written off, unless you are one of those people that thinks that the Gov is cooking the books to make things only look better.
Also you have no idea what Socialism is. What you have described is actually Communism, that is different from Socialism. Secondly that is what we already have but instead of the Government it starts from the Rich "job creators" and supposedly, if you believe the hype, trickles down onto the less fortunate like golden streams.
That is just as bad as what you have described. Money should go directly to those that have produced the items that are being sold first, then a smaller share goes to those that have less of a part in the actual creation of those products. That is what I want to see happen. CEO's making multi-million dollar salaries should disgust anyone with some sense. Sure it takes a lot of knowledge and training to run a company but most CEOs are not worth millions.
I also know how Governments work and how they run and are funded. That is with taxes. Without taxes, the life blood of any functional Government, the Government dies and then you have a real problem on your hands because no one state can do what a national Government is capable of.
I am completely fine with cuts to entitlements however they should not be cuts to benefits. They should be cuts that deal with the waste at the top of the tree, not the bottom. How much of the cost for these programs is being soaked up in outrageous salaries for insurance company executives for example. Any of that money going towards frivolous things like paying salaries needs to be stopped. The Government is not here to give pay checks to the insurance or pharmaceutical company employees.
Find ways to reduce the cost by forcing the source of the costs, those that dole out whatever it is the program deals with, to lower their prices through real competition and regulations on what they can do with tax payer money given to them by the Government.
At the same time Progressives have to be willing to concede ground on entitlement cuts in this fashion. It will be the only thing that will get enough Republicans on-board for a deal. It will not pick up the brainless wonders of the Tea Party but it will pick up any sensible-minded Moderates still left.
Some other things that have to be done are to adjust the SS retirement age and place it on a scaling system where it goes up by one year every decade to a decade and a half, put into place rules so that you only take out what you put into your SS account, no overdrawing, and allow the beneficiary to set the pace of the withdrawals that happen (read as the payout amount per month); once the money is gone it is gone.
Next we need to bash Big Pharma over the head and get them to lower drug prices and enact legislation to force them to release their formulas for generics exactly at six months after the release of the drug pending huge anti-trust fines. Pharma companies being able to hold up generics is one reason some drugs are so expensive or even not usable to patients with special conditions that big phrama does not give a rats ass about (like stearate allergies; almost all pill-form medications use stearates as a bonding agent between compounds).
Those two things could save us a lot of money that is wasted by the bureaucracy of anti-competitive business practices bought with lax oversight bought by lobbyists and the ever increasing life time expectancy of Americans.
It is not up to the government to stop big businesses from paying their executives exorbitant salaries and perks. It is up to the people who work for these macro companies to step up and demand the company be restructured!
If the government is going to do some cutting, maybe we should start by paying them for ONLY their time IN office, and not for the rest of their lives. Neither should they receive health care benefits until death just because they held a federal government position for 4 years. They should also take advantage of the Internet and stop traveling all over the world. Economy cars would go farther.
Stopping the never ending "war on terror" would be a good start as well. Subjecting everyone to x-rays and body frisks needs to stop too. ENOUGH! I'm sick of the federal government living in my home while I feed and clothe them but can no longer afford to feed and clothe my own family! Pelosi can go to wherever washed up old loud-mouthed politicians go after they are no longer wanted too. I personally believe Politicians like Pelosi are a part of the problem, not the solution. I don't think she knows how to cut a coupon, let alone government spending. Let her ride the trains and take mass transit. I have no problem with that, do you?
Put the middle class back to work, and there wouldn't be a problem with taxes. Why is it that the lack of JOBS in this country has been upsurped by the need to tax the rich? What the hell is going on in this country? Have you all gone nuts? Can't you see what the heck is going on?
Sygh,
jobs will not cover it. Even if we somehow manage to get all 12 million jobs forecast to be created by the BLS over the next decade that will not generate enough tax money to begin to start paying down the debt unless we also raise taxes. Taxes should never have been lowered in 2003 by Bush. Any competent President knows you do not lower taxes during war time, you raise them to pay for a war that was approved by the Country (aka Congress). Between 2 and 4 trillion was added to our debt because of the Bush wars and that does not count interest on that money since the wars were started.
We have to get serious if we want to ever be able to deal with the debt, tax increases have to happen. They go up on the rich first because they have the most money right now and can take that hit. Raise taxes on the middle class right now and you stop out what is left of it. We should wait until the economy is at least back to pre-2008 levels before raising middle class taxes but it should be done.
Well instead of calling it a raise let's just call it a mulch-tiered repealing of the Bush Tax Cuts. On top of that though we need to raise cap gains taxes. You should not get a brake for using money to make more money. There is nothing tangible made by an individual that makes their money on the stock market. If we were to raise the capital gains tax to 35%, the income tax rate that large businesses are supposed to be paying, we would generate around 450 to 500 billion in taxes over ten years.
Couple that with the 950 billion in taxes we will get eventually out of the fiscal cliff debates and the spending cuts of around 450 to 700 billion (my own estimate though they may go on a 1 for 1 or higher for cuts to taxes) and you have around 1.3 to 1.6 trillion over ten years. Add onto this Obama's budget plan and you add about another 2.5 to 3 trillion. So we now have 4.1 to 4.6 trillion in taxes and cuts over the next ten years. But more changes and cuts can be made. Cut 250 to 300 billion out of the military budget, that then adds to 4.35 to 4.9 trillion.
Kick in increased middle class taxes once the economy is back up then add that in as well (I do not have any figures or estimates for this but it would be around 500 billion to over a trillion depending on the amount taxes are raised and the amount of workers).
There are a lot of way to get to where we need to be but the only problem is that no one has the balls to actually vote for the changes that need to take place because swaths of Americans want to see nothing happen to their interests. This is not being real about he situation and those that are arguing against cutting something (sensible cuts not cuts that systematically alter a program) are only helping push us closer towards a bigger problem.
There is no way we can continue to lower taxes until we get this problem solved and there is also no way we can continue to spend what we do either. Both have to be done at the same time and people just have to accept that as a fact and work to find ways to make it happen with the least amount of hurt to all parties involved yet not weaken the affect of the measures themselves.
Geo - Congress did pass legislation to cut Medicare reimbursements. And, our President has proposed even more cuts, touting this as "savings". However, each year, Congress passes the "Doc Fix" which restores Medicare reimbursements to original levels under the threat that if thos Medicare reimbursement cuts actually did occur, doctors would be dropping all of their patients.
So, sounds like a good idea, but it doesn't work.
House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R., Va.) seems intent on blocking Obama -- from paying the bills -- Republicans left behind … fighting Israel’s ongoing holy wars. As long as NATO will provide soldiers and the U.S. provides the money … Israel pushes this arrogant “better than thou bulls#@&!” People don’t accept this chosen crap any longer!
www.HolyFaux.com
The Republican Party; has self-destructed -- on the grounds of homophobia & religious corruption! Republican party; religious extremists -- are willing to destroy the United States of America and its people -- at any cost and push the whole country over the cliff in the name of bogus hocus pocus religion!
www.BogusHocusPocus.com
Republicans ran up trillions of dollars in war costs.
This global financial downturn is all attributable to the one and only; Ben Bernanke … appointed by Bush! He wanted to slow down the buoyant economy while learning on the job -- and it cost the world economy upwards of $6 Trillion.
Are these sites from some elementary school?
mhrjhn -
Perhaps his imagination.
Why can't we go back to the way they use to do things? They met had their meetings then went home and got a real job. They were not paid big buck to stay up there in DC and pat themselfs on the back and make laws and brake laws give themselfs raises. I say kick the whole bunch out and start fresh. They only meet for a few weeks then go home.
jky1955: You said a lot in a few words. I agee with you that greed at the top is a major source of the problems in society. They play the people in the middle class against the people in poverty who are just trying to survive from day to day. I think there are many fools in the middle class who eat the wealthy, greedy, people's B.S. as though their favorite meal is Bull's Dung with a big spoon to the detriment of the middle class and poor.
It'll be interesting to see how many Americans who make $400K+/yr on Dec 31, 2012, will all of a sudden be making $399K/yr on Jan 1, 2013...at least according to their tax returns. Government will never learn.
if you deliberatly lower your income just to avoid taxes you are not a true business person. Real people who do real business do not let politics get in their way nor do they do stupid crap like what you have suggested. Businesses used to pay 90% and no one raised the crapstorm that gets raised these days over a 2% increase.
What is the difference between today's business and yesteryear's? Today's are greedy as hell.
If government raises taxes in a way to make business owners think twice, then the government is not growing business. Grow business and jobs and ultimately there will more cumulative income to tax. Take a look at CA and you'll see the tax, tax, and tax some effect.
Why are people so misinformed? If you make $401,000 your rate would only go up, on the $1000. The first 400,000 would actually not be affected. Get it?
Johnny
The point is, why work harder after $400K, get it?
leftisfacist,
I do not think anybody would give up making $100,000 to not pay $3000.00 more in taxes but would I invest in a new company knowing the capital gains tax is going from 15% to 43%, of course not, and that is what we have to be careful of with this President and the Democrats in Congress.
It is the capital gains, dividends, and less stupid rules that drive new business and new innovation
leftisfacist,
yeah because for some reason the Right has it stuck in their heads that political figures like the Koch brothers or Trump should be emulated and not discouraged.
Most businesses are in business to make money, they are not going to stop making money to avoid a piss ant increase in taxes. Now if taxes were going up to 75% your argument would be completely valid. As it is you are arguing that a 2% to 5% increase is too much and will collapse the economy.
There is no way to build up any logic around your argument at all nor the suggestion made by the OP that businesses would lower their profits to avoid that up to 5% increase in taxes. Frankly we need to get back to Clinton rates for everyone and increase capital gains to 20 to 25%. Most of the money that the Rich make and spend is done through market investments and not income. That is why if you only raise income taxes on the rich you only get around 50 to 60 billion.
Raise capital gains and you get a hell of a lot more from the money changers like Romney that make more for providing no services or products. Everyone has to draw their belts tighter and those that are not willing to do so should be stamped either as greedy or incompetent if they are then calling for more taxes on everyone else.
To be clear I want Congress to raise my taxes as well. I do not see taxes as something that Satan created. They are a necessary part of any country's Government and a national Government cannot run without collecting taxes. The programs we have in place for social structure, military spending, research, it all comes straight from tax money. Restrict the flow of taxes and you have to cut spending in every area of the Government to compensate or else you start to run up debt. Sound familiar?
This is part of the reason we have so much debt by the way. Nearly every President has, at some point, lowered taxes when they should not have (talking about the past 40 years now). If Bush had not lowered taxes and then not paid the wars and Medicare D straight from the debt we would have around 4 to 6 trillion less debt right now and would have had much smaller deficits for the past 11 years.
Geo - I have to agree with your proposals. We need to go back to the Clinton rates for everyone, make dividends and capital gains taxable as ordinary income. Sounds like a good plan, now how do we get Congress and the President to think it is their idea?
I think its time to get rid of Nancy and her group of cronies. This is the most gutless group of Democrats and I will NEVER vote for that party again!!!
I am sure they will miss you. Both parties are just big government spending cronies.
wasup, as if you ever voted for a democrat! And, you obviously vote straight party line.
I am in the top 10% and I think taxes should be raised slightly all the way down. The EIC also needs to be limited and the tax base broadened so everybody has a stake in the Govt. There are entire federal agencies that need to be abolished and I would start with the DEA and then go through homeland security and review what is needed and what is not. I travel all over the world adn we are seriously falling behind here, we are 25th in infrastructure and our educational system is lacking. I hope the democrats don't commit suicide by becoming the party of the public employee unions and the anti-gun proponets. The disgust that most people in this country have with the religious right/taliban and the tea party/ KKK can be transferred just as fast to the extreme left.
Guns are not the target. The target is the lack of security at the school house. Guns have been around for a long time. Sometimes there is a nut case doing something eventful. Instead of wasting tax payer funds on useless legislation that only strengthen the hands of criminals and mass murders, use the funds to have a security that is second to none at all of the schools.
Yes we can afford to have second to none security at all schools? You obviously dont understand how,many schools there are in America and how costly that would be. Especially considering the Right is always trying to cut school budgets. It just isnt do able.
There are almost 100,000 public schools in the U.S. Even if we used returning troops at schools as transitional employment, we would still be short in manpower.
I am disabled due to serious physical injuries and severe anxiety when not treated. I'm on disability, because I am unable to work because of health problems and other reasons. I would like to be able to work as an accountant which I went to school for and worked at for a couple of years. I hate being on disability, but because companies can do background checks to weed you out if you argued with your x-wife, if you had health problems that caused you not to be able to hold a job, etc., I am unemployable. Also if there are medications that could make it possible for you to function, there is no provision to make that possible. If they don't want to fund medications, make all drugs legal, so people who they would help function can get them, what do you expect? To work at a regular full time job many people would need pain medication like opiates, anxiety medication like benzodiazapines, etc. But the government and stupid people who believe everything the government and media tell them, keep otherwise employable people in an unproductive condition, even thogh that's not what they want. As for claiming mental illness should be a reason for gun control, I hate to see some people with mental illness kill a bunch of people at one time, but what people don't look at is that there are 10s of thousands of people killed in the U.S. every year by people who are not considered to be mentally ill, with guns. This is not a free country, to say it is, is 100% B.S. One and a half years ago my doctor finally had a prescription routine set up for me that made me feel pain free, anxiety free and insomnia free. He pescribed 3 medictions that required 8 minimum dose pills a day that made me feel totally normal with no side effects, but he was fired from the clinic for prescibing medications that were truly efective, because they were opiate and benzodiazapine type medications. He was a good doctor that may have made me able to function and be productive. The majority of the population and of the government establishments like the DEA and their cohorts are greedy and stupid. The reason I say greedy is there are many people who make huge salaries and benefits to treat stuggling people who need this kind of care like criminals, whereas the DEA and their cohorts are the real criminals, because they are destroying the economy and individual people's ability to be productive by promoting their harsh laws against doctors treating patients properly, so they can be in a healthier condition and productive members of society, so the DEA and their cohorts can steel huge paychecks and benefits from the taxpayers.
Ok obama people, you ignored the big vision of this pres... here it comes. And led by a person with hundreds of millions of dollars scammed off the government.