The solution to violence is more guns.

So said a number of people on this site yesterday. Gun advocates who themselves have never fired a weapon in self-defense or to protect others say that anyone can sink a 3-point jump shot from behind the arc and beat the buzzer in a championship game with a defender’s hand waving in their face. (If you don’t like that analogy, pick another—walk onstage at Carnegie Hall and play Beethoven’s Fifth Piano Concerto, drive a car around a dirt track at 120 mph—the list is endless.)

Worse, they say teachers should carry guns. How much do you want to bet they are the same ones who claim teachers are overpaid, don’t teach kids, don’t discipline them, and shouldn’t be allowed to unionize? But these overpaid “incompetents” should be armed and engage in shoot-outs. Right.

And how much do you want to bet they are among those who want to cut social services—like health care for people suffering from mental illness—because “we can’t afford it”?

Let's not deal with facts. They're uncomfortable.

Rather, let's throw gasoline on the fire. Douses it every time.

..........Don't touch social security and medicare - people have earned them by making regular contributions week after week, month after month, year after year.

..........Cut defense. Imagine just one item...F-22 which wasted more than $100 billion. The original plan was to deploy F-22s for use during the Afghan war, but some sticky technical glitches have never been solved.

..........As a former Senator Everett Dirksen once said, "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money".

..........I am sure tax increases proposed by the President won't solve our problems right away, but it's one step in the right direction. There will a sense of fairness among Americans. It will improve our fiscal situation a bit.

..........More important, such policy will boost business confidence not only among US businesses, but also global confidence..which is sorely lacking and will go a long way to help improve the economy.

The fiscal cliff/slope/curb questions are can Boehner cobble together enough of his caucus to pass it; and, based on previous alleged agreements, will it hold? But hope springs eternal and the GOP's alternative is to incur the wrath of voters who rejected them and their ideas November 6.

Jack, Portsmouth. It's beyond me how any rational individual can say that the answer to gun violence is add more guns. Those who make such an preposterous claim are a big part of the problem.

Feisty, it was great to read the FR comment this morning that Richard Engel is safe.

RIP Senator Daniel Inouye 1924 – 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wcncgf_sGzQ

Statement by the President on the Passing of Senator Daniel Inouye

Tonight, our country has lost a true American hero with the passing of Senator Daniel Inouye. The second-longest serving Senator in the history of the chamber, Danny represented the people of Hawaii in Congress from the moment they joined the Union. In Washington, he worked to strengthen our military, forge bipartisan consensus, and hold those of us in government accountable to the people we were elected to serve. But it was his incredible bravery during World War II – including one heroic effort that cost him his arm but earned him the Medal of Honor – that made Danny not just a colleague and a mentor, but someone revered by all of us lucky enough to know him. Our thoughts and prayers are with the Inouye family.

Senator Daniel Inouye stayed the course and finished the race; despite living in an interment camp. He was a great American.

My thoughts go out to his family

Feisty,

I am so glad Richard Engel is fine.

Worse, they say teachers should carry guns. How much do you want to bet they are the same ones who claim teachers are overpaid, don’t teach kids, don’t discipline them, and shouldn’t be allowed to unionize? But these overpaid “incompetents” should be armed and engage in shoot-outs. Right.

Jack,

I said the same thing yesterday, just when you think you have read all the stupid @!$%# possible another one comes along...

There is nothing which can surprise me anymore... NOTHING!

My daughter is a teacher and wants NO part of having to "pack heat" to her already overloaded job responsibilities!

I am so glad Richard Engel is fine.

Same here Bev!

Richard is thee BEST in the business when it comes to foreign correspondence!

Jack in Portsmouth: "The solution to violence is more guns."

I heard this morning that Rick Perry is among those who think this is the solution - as if Miss Sue the kindergarten teacher with a cute little revolver tucked somewhere (where?) in her sundress or mini-skirt or yoga pants would have been a match for the kind of arsenal the Adam Lanzas of the world are toting around. But let's assume for a moment that it would help. Why stop with teachers? Shouldn't the school bus drivers and crossing guards and janitors be armed then, too? Shouldn't the lunch ladies be carrying something more lethal than tuna casserole? But what if one of them is the one who suddenly snaps and starts shooting at anything that moves? Well, then, maybe all the Moms and Dads dropping off their kids in the morning should be packing too. Hey, what could could possibly go wrong?

Jack is right. For the two and a half years I've been on here, all I've heard is how the answer to the education crisis in this country is not to just throw more money at it. But apparently, the same people think that the answer to the gun violence crisis is simply to throw more guns at it.

In those two and a half years, as far as I know, I've never resorted to calling anyone on here - or any political figure for that matter - an idiot. And I won't do so now. Because suggesting that more guns is the answer is not idiocy.

It's stark raving madness.

RIP, senator Inouye..whose death rips my heart out.

Fox News Execs Squashed Talk Of Gun Control After Newtown Massacre: Report

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/fox-news-gun-control-sandy-hook-newtown_n_2318431.html?utm_hp_ref=media

Right wing nut jobs are now yelling that we need "better mental health care" . Excuse me these are the same nuts who utterly opposed to government involvement in healthcare. could it be just a distraction from the real problems; gun violence and the NRA?

Best of luck in getting the final deal. Remember it's congress that is responsible for taxation and budget appropriation and revenue.

P.S.: Actually all revenue bills should originate in the House of Representatives, according to the US constitution. Republicans - the ball is now in your court!! Have some ball and do the right thing (Remember GOP still has majority in the House, although a smaller majority after November elections).

Jody. Jack's intro was pure sarcasm!

Leave it to the wingnuts in this country to say or do something totally stupid after a national tragedy. Remember the crazed TEA PARTY

The tea party said we came unarmed this time in the anti-health care rallies.

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.4884164607476703&pid=15.1

Is the Tea Party prepared to shoot up the military next time?

So glad to hear Mr. Engle and his crew are safe and sound. He's the finest foreign correspondant we've ever had. Mr. Inouye will be missed greatly in Congress. A long and outstanding career. Rest in peace Sir.

Now. It appears as though our President is finally getting through to the GOP whiners and snivelers that he's serious and won't be brow beaten down to them. Think their getting the message. He's not going to fold. Better cut a deal while you can, the Cliff is getting closer every day.

And, it's time for this Nation to take a hard look as to what's best for this Country and NOT the NRA. Don't continue to let the NRA continue to kill our children. New laws please Mr. President.

Beverly in Chicago, I agree with you on your point about the crazed Tea Party.

do you all still remember that Palin had put Giffords on a "target list" of lawmakers Palin wanted to see unseated in congressional elections. And Palin Palin released a map featuring 20 House Democrats that used crosshairs images to show their districts, including Gabby Gifford who was then shot in the head - fortunately Gabby survived, but her life is sadly different now.

Arm the students themselves, every first grader. Gun nuts are nuts!

To echo Feisty's posts about Richard Engel, it is such a relief to see him safe. He is truly one of the best journalists other there - without question one of the most courageous journalists I've ever seen.

No matter what is happening in the world, he is there to report back to us. He is our eyes and ears all over the globe.

Be safe Richard Engel. Be safe.

Thank GOD for compromise, and a glimmer of hope that our 2 party system can still function.

Keep up the momentum DC'ers!

The Future of Schools

Courtesy of U.S. News on NBCNEWS.com

While school officials have not yet decided when Sandy Hook students will resume their studies, the building that they will move into - the unused Chalk Hill School in the nearby town of Monroe - already showed signs of preparation.

On a fence opposite the building, a green sign with white lettering proclaimed "Welcome Sandy Hook Elementary!" Tractor-trailer trucks carried desks from Sandy Hook to the new school.

The massacre - one of the deadliest school shootings in U.S. history – shocked the country and prompted some lawmakers to call for tighter restrictions on guns and causing school administrators around the country to assess their safety protocols.

The discussion on how we as a nation move forward after this horrific tragedy has begun.

Guns and gun laws are only one of the issues needed to be addressed by the mothers, fathers and our legislators in the coming months.

Another topic is the facilities themselves. This is my field of expertise. My 30 years of Architecture and Education experience leads me to conclude the facilities where we teach our children are obsolete.

New technology is the main reason for why we must re-think how we design schools in the immediate and in the not too distant future. Something as simple as an APP or application on a cellular phone can provide a means to provide security and tracking of everyone who enters and exits a school building. If someone isn't in the school by a certain time, they are locked out and have to check in at the security station.

They just can't walk into the school at will.

Having key pads, electronic card swipes, and more APPS can make a classroom, gymnasium, or auditorium a secure room, which can be controlled by a central computer and a security guard watching people enter and exit and even lock doors after a certain time.

Cameras are everywhere in our lives right now, from the intersection we drive through, to the store we shop. Cellular phones are mini-recording devices which security guards already use to see what's around a corner of a building before they get there.

Other technological breakthroughs which are now everyday common practices in our businesses are on-line meetings like Go-to-Meeting and Skype, which can bring classrooms directly into your own home.

None of these electronic wonders were invented when I was born, but surveillance and security cameras are everywhere and a part of our everyday life. Big brother is here to stay, but it can be used for good.

This is just one way we can make our schools safer.

We must look at all the possibilities available if we want to have safe environments for our children. We must NEVER let a horrific event like Sandy Hook Elementary happen again.

Salud.

While Murdoch Tweets To Promote Gun Control, His Fox News Demonizes Reform

"Terrible news today. When will politicians find courage to ban automatic weapons? As in Oz after similar tragedy." Murdoch also tweeted, "Nice words from POTUS on shooting tragedy, but how about some bold leadership action?"

https://twitter.com/rupertmurdoch/statuses/280114713688416256?tw_i=280114713688416256&tw_e=details&tw_p=tweetembed

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Either this old wrinkled goat has lost control of his Radio Rwanda aka FOX NEWS the "Republican Headquarters" or he is a hypocrite. FOX talks against gun control incessantly 24/7; just like they demonized Bob Cosas for his remarks on gun control

I wonder how an insignificant repeal of temporary tax cuts for those making $400,000 is going to bring in $1 trillion in revenue over a decade? How is that possible when returning the rates for folks making $250 K would only garner about $700 to $800 billion in revenue over the same period?

The only thing I agree with in these "supposed" break throughs is to get rid of the payroll tax cut.

Also interesting to note how cuts are discussed, $800 billion in health and non-health spending, adjustments to Social security, however no discussion about cuts to defense. Does defense = non-health spending?

They know what they should do if they wanted to address our fiscal issues, especially those supposed fiscally consumed conservatives; allow all the temporary tax cuts expire and weather the sequester cuts. Make sensible adjustments to SS and Medicare, allow for a reasonable focused infrastructure job bank stimulus. No. Instead, take one step forward and two steps back and better learn to thread water in red ink for the forseeable future.

Sign this "amazing legislation" a grand compromise surely to surpass those compromises over the lesser subject matters discussed in the Compromise of 1820 and the Great Compromise of 1850. Henry Clay would be so proud with this give and take over the all important issue of 3 percentage points in the tax rate.

Whatever, I don't really care anymore. Get on to gun control and immigration reform.

Louie Bee -

Both Jody and I are very familiar with Jack's views and are well aware his first line was sarcasm, but thanks for pointing it out to anyone who might possibly have thought we were disagreeing with him. I think I can speak for Jody when I say quite the contrary.

The time is now. Stop the guns. Save the lives of Children.

i thought this thread was supposed to be about the fiscal cliff

I loath Obama's and the Democrats spending and it has to stop, but not at the cost of Social Security!!! We have all paid into it and Republicans and Democrats should prop it up and stop stealing from it. It should be financed and most other spending cut and reduced!! (I'm a conservative leaning Independent)

Long Live the Second Amendment!!!

Boehner said House moving to Plan B. Tax only on $1 million or more in income. President's plan not balanced. Cantor offers prayers to the families in Newtown. Republicans remain committed to protect the middle class. Spending cuts have not been forthcoming from the WH.

President is negotiating with himself. He is moron so it is stupid in and stupid out. Said reality is spending is up 16% since election. Harry Reid doesn't have the guts to bring it to a vote when it comes to the Senate.

BDJB,

And Social Security recipient? Nobody wants to give up what they get.

Jack in Portsmouth

The solution to violence is more guns

Yup, Jack

That is what the right wing nuts think. I prefer our youth be in a school environment; not a prison!!!

Ben,

Spending up 16% since election? huh? What law passed that authorized that? methinks you're listening to somebody's hooey.

Sam Trump

i thought this thread was supposed to be about the fiscal cliff

and yet, all YOU wrote was "i thought this thread was supposed to be about the fiscal cliff.

Thanks for YOUR insightful perspective.

Go play website concierge somewhere else.

Salud

I'm for gun control, but be realistic, we're never going to be able to keep guns away from nut jobs.

You can't lock up every weirdo. 1000:1 weirdo to violent weirdo.

You can offer stellar mental health care and control guns, but the problem is societal. We reject people and provide very little support for the bullied (I like the term "harassed" better). As long as we produce people like that via Coach Hardcock and his minions, and guns are available somehow (legal or illegal), we're going to have this problem. It's particularly horrible because the latest tragedy is with children, but mass killing of adults can't be considered "better" can it?

Berverly, have you no fear of the government? Have you no fear in the human element of tyranny? I am not justifying the Sandy murders or any other, but what check n balance do we have over the possible tyranny of government without full acceptance of the Second Amendment? And don't tell me "elections".

why is it always cuts to SS, why not have senators and congressmen take a cut in pay? Seniors need their benefits and medicare. As for gun control, the sad fact is whether it is controlled or not, the bad guys always find a way to get a gun. And I agree with SmBusOwner in NY Obama and cuts ha, spending is up since the election, Wake Up America

The increased taxes on the 'rich' will probably generate about $50 Billion per year, or about $500 Billion over 10 years.

So what do we do about the other projected $9.6 Trillion increase in the National Debt over the next 10 years? (Obama's projection from his 2013 Budget - Here's the link - See Table S-15);

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/tables.pdf

I wonder what has happened to the long-promised cuts in defense spending, considering that every dollar cut from defense spending yields an economic benefit of $2.50 to the civilian economy? You want the economy to get better then we need to cut back from a wartime defense budget. How about just 10%, which would yield an economic benefit of $250 billion to the civilian economy?

Here is my academic proof: Ramey, Valerie A, Government Spending and Private Activity, University of California - San Diego, 2012. (She is the PHD-level department chair of economics there).

http://weber.ucsd.edu/~vramey/research.html#govt

The longer we wait to make the needed changes, the more difficult and expensive the problem becomes. Typical 'politics as usual', with our children's and grandchildren's futures at stake.

None of this addresses the REAL problem with the Deficit, which is Health Care costs, thanks to Obamacare. In reviewing Obama's (very optimistic) Budget projections in his 2013 Budget proposal, it shows that revenues from health care taxes (mainly Medicare taxes) will only amount to $2.8 Trillion over 10 years, but spending for Medicare and Medicaid will be $11.1 Trillion over 10 years. That's a Deficit in health care of $8.3 Trillion, which accounts for every penny of the Deficit over the next 10 years - and then some. In other words, without the Deficit from health care costs, we would have a SURPLUS over the next 10 years.

Unfortunately, the Democrats constantly cry "We can't cut spending for the poor" and call the Republicans heartless, so nothing gets done.

We need more cuts in spending. 1 for 1 is BS. This president is just plane stupid, and is putting America in a big big hole.

bdjbforfun

have you no fear of the government

No, I don't fear my government. But I am glad you brought this up, because so many right-wingers do fear the government, to the point their fear becomes self-destructive. I would be curious to know- what exactly do you think the government will do to you? Put you in a concentration camp? Make you wear an armband designating your religion or ethnicity? The right-wing voters in this country seem to have such exaggerated fears, yet they are the ones that question President Obama's religion and citizenship, they are the ones that would allow folks to die from lack of medicalcare...so perplexing.

Another round of kicking the can down the road... What a bunch of inept politicians.

Same old, same old... Where's the real reform?

Leave it to the Right Wing Bone Heads to start calling for more mental health care (don't touch my guns) when they've been fighting the most rudimentary heath care providing!!!!

I guess as long as Obama doesn't ask for it ... it's ok ... idiots!!

As far as the up to $400,000.00 no tax change ... much more realistic ... if folks are making that ... they're working for it in most cases!!!!

JoAnne in PA: Yes Jacks first line was sarcasm but it makes my blood boil. Sorry to all.

I laugh my ass off at people who talk about these cuts to so called "entitlements" the ones that people pay into with their taxes their entire lives. Do you want to know who the true entitlement class is? Congress "borrowed" (some would say stole) 70 billion dollars from Social Security in 2011 ($70,000,000,000.00) to use on pet projects to benefit the wealthy. In total, Congress owes Social Security more than 4 trillion dollars ($4,000,000,000,000.00) although this debt is not included as part of the national debt because there is no time-frame for Congress ever paying that money back, let alone interest on the money they have, er... borrowed. Of course the GOP wants to cut Social Security benefits to the middle class and poor as well as other such programs! That leaves them more money to spend on the wealthy! So, no wonder Social Security is in such financial trouble when the bankers are also the robbers!

AMY, First off, I'm not a right winger. Secondly, your lack of fear and the likes of those in this country like you, is what I truly fear, because without the knowledge of history and the reasoning of our fore fathers, this past is destine to repeat itself.

This president is just plane stupid

Uhhh . . . it's "plain". But you just go right on thinking that it's the president who is stupid.

Old Timer,

I wonder what has happened to the long-promised cuts in defense spending

Couldn't agree with you more. Must not touch one penny dedicated to rifles and missiles. No, no, no, no. Got to take it from social services and education and health care.

You'll notice that Roy Wilson never suggests cutting defense. No, the deficit is all the fault of Obama Care.

I know there is a lot of news competing for our attention these days...but I just wanted to say RIP Sen. Daniel K. Inouye. You want to talk about a hero...read that guy's bio...particularly his military service. Even if you didn't agree with him politically, there is no denying his love for this country and the amazingly brave lengths he went to defend her. Wow!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Inouye

TheKhanKubla " Do you want to know who the true entitlement class is? Congress "borrowed" (some would say stole) 70 billion dollars from Social Security in 2011 ($70,000,000,000.00) to use on pet projects"

That's been going on since Lyndon Johnson started using those 'Trust Funds' for his 'Guns and Butter' policies during the Vietnam War.

The total so far is about $2.7 TRILLION.

Bev and like-minded,

Why don't we ban abortions; the murder of unborn children? Abortionists have taken the lives of more than 60 million of our babies and who is crying for them? How about banning all the violent video games, movies, music, and television shows? How about we ban real "hate" speech? Oh, wait we can't do that; 1st Amendment rights. How about banning alcohol and drugs? Oh, wait we tried that and we need our beer, whiskey, pot, and meth. Let's ban drinking and driving to stop the more than 12,000 deaths that occur each year when a drunk gets behind the wheel of an automobile and causes death and destruction. Wait, we've made that illegal and drunks still drive and murder people. We should ban every gun. We know the criminals will turn over theirs and we can count on the police to keep us safe and trust our government not to take away any more of our rights.

Been looking at the study that was done in 1994. Gun laws appear to have very little effect on crime or violence. However, that was before the gun manufacturers decided to make military assault rifles with 30 round clips the 21st century boy toy. And it seems that everytime we read about innocent people and children being murdered, one of this .223 urban assualt weapons is the primary weapon of choice. Aurora, Newton, Syria - all the same gun. So if we are talking "gun control", we need to focus on the one thing that the free world does not need and the NRA cannot defend - military-style assault weapons.

bdjbforfun ... I'm interested ... what past are you speaking of that I should be fearful of ... just curious!

Sorry, in the wake of Friday's tragedy I just can't get too worked up about the fiscal cliff. Politics as usual in the wake of an horrific event just 11 days before Christmas.

The rich get richer on the backs of the middle class and the poor while we bury the future in a small New England town. The dreams and aspirations of 27 American families are shattered. The GOP runs and hides from questions about gun control while the Speaker of the House continues to cover for the wealthy at the expense of programs for those less fortunate than the 2%.

What is wrong with this country? What is wrong with us as a people?

There is something fundamentally wrong with a country where people stockpile guns and then complain about the infringement of their second amendment rights. There is something wrong with a country where 60% of the nation's wealth is held by only 2% of the population. Our values are all screwed up.

But what can we expect from a country that proclaimed freedom at it's founding while enslaving a million human beings? What can we expect from a country that engaged in the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous people and called it our "manifest destiny" from God to do so. What can we expect from a country that fought a bloody civil war that ultimately resulted in the first Presidential assassination in our troubled history, just so half the country could CONTINUE to enslave millions of human beings? What can we expect from a country that 100 years later was still fighting to keep the descendants of those slaves in servitude and deny them the equal rights and opportunities promised at their emancipation? I could go on and on and on, while the Texas School Book committee re-writes history to gloss over our past. American exceptionalism. Yeah, we're a great country, except......

This chickens are finally coming home to roost. Karma is a bitch and we've only seen the first page of the butcher's bill that must be paid. We could fix this, but we won't.

Merry Christmas everybody.

bdjbforfun

I apologize if I have offended you. I truly want to know: what are you so fearful of? What history am I not aware of? And how will allowing people to have assault weapons protect us from (whatever it is) you think the government will do?

Obviously I am aware of the Japanese internment camps of WWII, and of the government taking Native American children away from their families, certainly I wouldn't say government always does the right thing. However, I think people who foster vague fears about the government don't do our country any favors. More often than not these fears lead to crazy acts - like inspiring mentally ill people to arm themselves and go shoot up schools.

Jack in Portsmouth "You'll notice that Roy Wilson never suggests cutting defense. No, the deficit is all the fault of Obama Care."

Actually, I favor letting the 'sequestration' cuts take place - That would force cuts to both Defense and domestic 'discretionary' spending.

I also favor letting the Bush tax cuts expire for EVERYONE - The tax rates would merely return to those under Clinton, when everyone said they were 'fair'.

Just letting the tax increases and spending cuts take place would solve out Deficit problem, and the beauty is that it only requires that the President and Congress do what they do best - NOTHING. The changes are automatic.

As for the cost of Obamacare, perhaps you can explain why taxpayer funded health care has increased by over $2 Trillion in 10 years since Obamacare was passed. The $8.3 Trillion Deficit from health care that Obama projects over the next 10 years IS the biggest problem we face from our Debt - just look at the following link for proof - See Table S-5 for Receipts and Outlays for Medicare and Medicaid (Receipts are $2.823 Trillion and Outlays are $11.134 Trillion, for a projected health care Deficit of over $8.3 Trillion. The ENTIRE Deficit for the next 10 years, and then some, is from health care spending;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/tables.pdf

bdjbforfun - your fea of our country is sadly telling about your lack of intelligence. You'll believe everything the Tea Partiers feed you and scream it at the top of your lungs. NO, the past is NOT destined to repeat itself. We know the past and are smart enough to avoid it - without a proliferation of guns.

fear not fea

I hope Obama and Democrats get serious this time,250,000 income is not rich , people that make ove 1 million dollars are rich, they will be affected for the increase of taxes, let see what is the next move of the Democrats obstructionist, do they will agree with the Republican proposal or they will continue taking us down the cliff.

I'm glad to see this deal doesn't rest on the backs of our seniors. Was that a change after $400 million or $400 thousand I suppose either way you look at it, it's a long way from $250 Thousand? I don't know if any of you have read my post about 5/3rds Advance Account? It's an Account that lets you borrow up to half your SS Check that is automatically deposited in your checking account. So if you get a SS Check of $1400 a month 5/3rd will let you borrow $700 at a 10% interest rate. That money gets taken out of your next check. Well that has changed for some reason the amount in that account for me has fallen to $500 Advance. I suspect this is where the deal Boehner and the President are going to agree. The bank will still let me borrow half it's just that half will be $500 of $1000. Like the rest of you that get a Social Security Check plan on a huge cut in your income. I am so glad I invested the thousands of dollars I have over my life time to be told now it's not mine and be thankful we are giving you anything at all. You are not entitled to anything! It was never set up to help you! We did it to help our parents and our selves not you! The reduction in this account was first noticed by me at the beginning of November, 2012. How long has this deal been in effect?

Correction to my Post #1.53

'As for the cost of Obamacare, perhaps you can explain why PROJECTED taxpayer funded health care has increased by over $2 Trillion in 10 years since Obamacare was passed.'

bdjb, if your are that fearful of a tyrannical government, it's time for you to move somewhere else.

We are nearly 250 years old. How many times have citizens had to take up arms against tyranny in our government? Do you really think a handgun or even an assault weapon will stand up to our government's arsenal? An arsenal which YOU helped to fund.

Instead of worrying about a tyrannical government, you should be working to support it and make it strong. You should be encouraging it to serve your needs and guarantee your security. Then you wouldn't have to be so afraid. Then you wouldn't need to defend yourself against anything but your own irrationalities.

The first 4 posts all came from the same IP address. LMFAO!! How sad is that?!?!? LOL!

Ignore these, I mean "this" poster. LMFAO!

Liberals. God love em! LOL!

Confussed-1578043 "I don't know if any of you have read my post about 5/3rds Advance Account?"

It sounds like you effectively get to borrow $500 only 1 time from your next SS check, at a 10% Interest Rate.

I'm not sure if that makes a lot of sense in the long run.

Skip,

You live in Oklahoma!! Hypocrite!!

Oskar: 250,000 income is not rich

When the average minimum income is below $30,000, $250,000 is a fortune.

I am gun owning liberal the day I read the headlines that says a sane person with their own legal weapon commits mass murder in any town U.S.A I will agree to weapons control.

Bobster-1557895 "The first 4 posts all came from the same IP address. LMFAO!! How sad is that?!?!? LOL! Liberals. God love em! LOL!"

That would mean Feisty is posting a comment, and then agreeing with herself using another name - That would explain why Feisty, Pigotry and Beverly always agree with each other.

I wonder if she's paid by the Democrats, or by George Soros? She certainly seems to have all day to post comments.

Fielden, Amy, Seeking, all liberals, What makes you think modern times excempts the USA from world history? Or, human history for that matter. I need not waste my breath (time) on you any further.

Mark my words... Lose the Second Amendment, lose the entire Bill of Rights!!! Rather a year from now or 100 years from now, it would happen. Logging off now.

Bobster - don't know where you're getting your "facts" but you're totally wrong. Why doesn't that surprise me?

blah,blah,blah! Those pieces of lying, stealing crap knew/know what exactly they are doing. All grandstanding.

Give us our s.s. money back!!! Stop foreign aide!!! And why don't they take a pay cut???

I am sick of you idiots who repeat what some one in washington says. You probably still believe in Santa. And you people keep voting the same crap into office. Blame everyone but yourselves, what a joke you are.

oskar-1391552 either you've had your head in the ground are you would have realized that it is the Republicans that have been the "obstructionist" .... it fact for FOUR years!!!!!!

AND ... it was the Republicans who wanted NO CHANGE at all for the 2% AND even you are now saying that "people that make over 1 million dollars are rich" and ... by the way ... the mil group would give you the finger!!!!

Sometimes it's hard for you folks to get your facts straight and be a LITTLE consistent!!!

SeekingSanity "Bobster - don't know where you're getting your "facts" but you're totally wrong."

And how would you know?

Is that you, Feisty?

Gotta go to work now - some people don't get paid for posting.

Bye.

Does explain their left wing rants...err uh I mean their arguing with each other and pattin each other on the butt....paid perv's

Louie Bee, I know Jack's first line was sarcasm; my comment was in agreement with the absurdity of the notion that to solve/reduce gun violence, just add more guns to the mix. I am quite familiar with Jack's posts and know where he's coming from; we are usually on the same page.

Tomas, great post and points. There are sensible steps that can be taken to secure schools without adding armed security guards and arming teachers.

JoAnne, yep, stark raving mad; well said.

bdjbforfun "Mark my words ... Logging off now."

Why people need to let you know that they had the last word goes far beyond a little telling!!!!

I believe the majority of the United States have had enough of the cat n mouse game. Most understand that a "soft landing" with regard to the economy is necessary. Especially for those on the lower end of the economic scale.

The ship is sinking and the responsibility of the capt and his officers is to get it into shallow waters. The shallow waters is not to eliminate debt but to figure out what is a safe amount of debt to carry.

Then make the plan to drop our obligation into the safe zone of debt, dropping the amount paid in interest just like the majority of people in this country do.

I find it unimaginable that those governing do not have to step up as public servants and reduce their wages, pensions or other benefits. As do many who have to seek with hat in hand compensation from their employers .

I see that for the past 30 years the Congress has taken good care of themselves while most have had the value of wages and benefits actually eroded. All the while hearing the cry from the small business to the large multinational corporation cry , "We must cut our numbers in labor force, wages, benefits, eliminate pension plans, etc. or we will not make a profit, can not compete, will have to out source our work.

While unions are a necessary evil to keep labor and management in check. We watch our local government take advantage of what we in the private sector have lost. Again no check and balance.

It is the government's place to keep a balance of power between labor and management (top management).

It used to be in this country a rising tide lifts all boats! Besides who really wants to be part of an organization stuck on the smelly low tide marsh flats?

Cash rich corporations hoarding their treasure and wanting more tax cuts? Show the government you know how to put the money to work training the people of the low end of the wage scale within the existing work force. Research and develop new products and services with that CASH, bring in and TRAIN new workers, from our education system that is in place.

Keep in mind laws can be passed and repealed, but to do poor research and then do nothing is unconscionable.

Sidebar to this is so called entitlements were given. The social security and medicare were paid for by me since 1965. That is 45 years, and I still pay for medicare monthly (which was never mentioned I would have to back in 1965. Social Security you began taking out of my pay in 1960. So now the Republicans say they do not want to give me my money back? They also know that any legislation they bring forward will effect this program for those even already using their own money.

See if Speaker of the House Boener or his pals take any action against future "club members in the House or Senate. Let's see the leaders and their staff get cut first!!!!!!!!!!!!

No Greater Love.

There is no greater love than the love of a child for their parents and the love of a parent for their child.

This is a given.

Yet...Columbine...Virginia Tech...Tuscon...Aurora...Clackamas...and now Newtown to name a tragic few.

Because it was to soon to have the conversation at the first one, then came the next, after that the next, and now we're here. Looking at the faces of 20 (twenty!!!) children mindlessly slaughtered by a deranged maniac. This must be THE END!

The adult population of the United States is approximately 160 million.

Can even 4% show up in Washington to demand that the gun fetish of this country be regulated? Four percent would be about 6.4 million people.

Are there that many people who would turn out to save one more child? Perhaps their child?

If we, as citizens of this nation, cannot get up and fill the mall of the Capitol and then overflow the city to demand ACTION now, then perhaps this is the doom to which our sloth will relegate us.

MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD! LET YOUR PRESENCE BE KNOWN! MARCH ON D.C. ON FEB. 14, 2013!

Show your love.

P.S. Is it getting better? Or do you feel the same?

Will it make it easier on you now? You got someone to blame.

You say

One Love

One Life

When it's one need

in the night.

One love

we get to share it.

Leaves you baby, if you don't care for it.

Does it disappoint you?

Or leave a bad taste in your mouth?

You act like you never seen blood.

It soaks the land from north to south.

Well it's

Too late

Tonight

To keep the past hidden from the light.

We're one, but we're not the same.

We have to carry each other,

Carry each other.

One.

Have you come here for forgiveness?

Have you come to raise the dead?

Have you come here to play Jesus?

To the lepers in your head.

Do we ask to much?

More than a lot.

We lose are children.

That's all we got.

We're one, but we're not the same.

We hurt each other, then we do it again.

Some say,

"Love is a temple, Love a higher law."

"Love is a temple, Love a higher law."

You ask me to enter, while raining tears still fall.

And I can't keep holdin' on

To what you got

When all you got is hurt.

One love...One blood...One life,

You got to do what you should.

One life...with each other.

Sisters and brothers.

One life

But we're not the same.

We get to carry each other

Carry each other.

One.

(apologies to U2)

Jack in Portsmouth

The solution to violence is more guns.

So said a number of people on this site yesterday. Gun advocates who themselves have never fired a weapon in self-defense or to protect others say that anyone can sink a 3-point jump shot from behind the arc and beat the buzzer in a championship game with a defender’s hand waving in their face. (If you don’t like that analogy, pick another—walk onstage at Carnegie Hall and play Beethoven’s Fifth Piano Concerto, drive a car around a dirt track at 120 mph—the list is endless.)

Worse, they say teachers should carry guns. How much do you want to bet they are the same ones who claim teachers are overpaid, don’t teach kids, don’t discipline them, and shouldn’t be allowed to unionize? But these overpaid “incompetents” should be armed and engage in shoot-outs. Right.

And how much do you want to bet they are among those who want to cut social services—like health care for people suffering from mental illness—because “we can’t afford it”?

Let's not deal with facts. They're uncomfortable.

Rather, let's throw gasoline on the fire. Douses it every time.

Hmm, thought this was about the fiscal cliff, must have read the wrong story.

newscover

oskar

AND ... it was the Republicans who wanted NO CHANGE at all for the 2% AND even you are now saying that "people that make over 1 million dollars are rich" and ... by the way ... the mil group would give you the finger!!!!

Nancy Pelosi , the Democrat leader in the House, in a TV interview with Charlie Rose , she said, increase in taxes to the wealthiest , the ones that make over 1 million of dollars is someting we can agree , even it is something the president did not propose. That was Pelosi plan. Bohener accept it , if the Obama does not agree it is obvious is the president the obstructionist. Talking about obstructionist, just take a look at the pile of bills comming from the House, "Dirty" Harry is hiding bellow his desk ,in the Senate.

Heh Heh, The very next headline, Fiscal Deal falls through!!

Typical MSNBC reporting!

The US Government has a SPENDING problem not a revenue problem.

Cut the politicians life long salaries, cut government, clean up government waste!

Raising the taxes on the wealthy solves nothing! Whatever "wealthy is"!

Raising taxes is more BS at work to divide and conquer America!

Roy,

Also notice the timing of posts. They are always right together. LOL! Very sad that some guy with no friends has to "invent" friends of both sexes to agree with him on some blog. LOL! Poor, poor Feisty. I'm glad I exposed him though. It's now very humorous reading thru these posts. LOL!

One thing that too many fail to recognize or discuss is that the REAL fiscal cliff is not how much we cut from what but rather that IF we cut spending too much in the near years, we will go right back off the recession cliff which would mean even more deficit and debt. I'm a liberal, I believe that increasing revenues, closing tax loopholes for the wealthy and special interests is one part of the needed economic rework. I also believe that targeted, reduced spending in the long-term is required but I do not think we should just whack half the budget off in the name of so-called fiscal sanity because that would be the worst economic decision we could possibly make.

I believe a total overhaul of our tax code is essential and that any future legislation which provides tax incentives for businesses should sunset automatically and should be reviewed every two years for need as well as usefulness; once those businesses are profitable and growing, subsidies should be reduced yearly until eliminated. The oil and gas tax subsidies have been in place for decades; they were initially incentives to promote exploration and research; however, today these businesses makes billions quarterly, they no longer need subsidies.

I believe we can create a smarter government by removing the overlap from agency to agency, by consolidating those agencies responsible for some aspect of the same thing. I understand that medicare requires further fixing and I also understand that social security for the long-term requires tweaking. I disagree with the chatter from republicans that "entitlements" are the problem--they are NOT. The biggest debt problem is the 8 years of Bush with 6 years of total GOP control of Washington where they paid for ZERO, nada, zip, zilch, nothing. Now many of those same GOPers demand drastic cuts to medicare, social security, education, infrastructure, food assistance, aid to the poor.....but they had no problem spending like drunken sailors on leave for 8 years.

I also want to see defense spending cut but we cannot, at this stage of recovery from the total collapse in 2008, just allow the sequester number to stand. In the long term, yes, we need to reduce military and industrial military complex spending yearly but IF we drastically cut huge amounts from defense along with huge amounts from everything else, we will indeed fall off the economic, fiscal cliff within the year.

The fiscal cliff is not failing to cut spending or raise taxes, the fiscal cliff is too much austerity during economic recovery.

fielden

Oskar: 250,000 income is not rich

When the average minimum income is below $30,000, $250,000 is a fortune.

Exactly what kind of STUPID comment is this?

Average Minimum?

Average Minimum?

Statistically there is no such thing. An average is an average and a minimum is a minimum. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN AVERAGE MINUMUM!

There are different types of averages such as mean and median, but that's it.

You make up sh!t just to try making a point... but the only point you make is that you are STUPID!

BTW... the 2012 Median Household Income after inflation was $50,054 (from the US Census Bureau)

Here is an article by the NY Times explaining the numbers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/us/us-incomes-dropped-last-year-census-bureau-says.html?_r=0

(you are obviously stupid or just a liar)

I posted this earlier on the article here on NBC about the Principal at Newtown. It is in response to the ever spiraling controversy around gun ownership.

I personally don't own guns of any type. But I just have to ask you how many laws were violated before the assassin even set foot on the school property? Tell me how those laws protected anyone? The rush to create more law does nothing to keep us safe. It is only the act of politicians trying to capitalize on the misfortune of others. They rush to create more law and yet ignore enforcing the laws we have on the books. If this was not true why is a family having to bring suit over "Fast and Furious" for the wrongful death of their son?

We as citizens have given up much freedom in the pursuit of security...yet we are no more secure than we were before the new laws and agencies were created. I just point this out because the truth is we live in a dangerous world and no amount of law, insurance, security, or government action will change that. Remember on 9/11 over 2000 people died due to box cutters and airplanes. Today we are no more secure except by the fact that our government has assassinated a good portion of the key people who planned and gave support to the terrorists. So what does that teach us? I guess we should all remember the most dangerous and destructive power on earth today is our government left unchecked by its citizens. So this is part of the reason our founding fathers created the 2nd Amendment. We are due to repeat the mistakes of the past if we ignore history on this earth. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely...don't remember who said that but it is still true today.

Our only safety is in changed lives...ones that are willing like this principal and mother who stood in the face of evil and did not blink...we need more leaders with that mindset.

By the way not one of our countries so called leaders would have done what the principal did. I know this by the public cowardice they display everyday in refusing to govern for the good of the people. If they were doing that how did we acquire a $16 trillion dollar deficit? And how come they are even discussing the raising of the debt ceiling? We are already spending more each year than we take in in revenue. The current discussions are not even to be considered courageous or helpful to our citizens and future.

Facinating story...shouldn't it have been entitled something like "Random news" though?

I'm happy to see that the Repubs and Dems finally are coming to an agreement, but it looks like we are going after the elderly and the rich. Don't the elderly have enough to worry about from scam artists? "Sorry Grandma, prices will still go up, but your Social Security won't". Wow, sounds like any other job I suppose.

Tax the rich, sounds good to me. On the other hand, since rich people won't loose money I guess we can expect to see some cutbacks at work. The CEO of my company isn't going to give up his fat cat bonus too quickly, so I guess we at the bottom will suffer something for it next year.

Rest in Peace Sir. Reguardless of politics, you do deserve respect and gratitude from this nation. You did not represent me, nor my state, but you did serve us all in the senate and in time of war. Sleep well warrior of a greatful nation.

Glad to hear that you are out of danger Mr. Engel.

That is all for this story. Beating the Newton story on here would just be pointless

Beverly in Chicago Comment collapsed by the community

Until president Obama makes a statement, I will pay very little attention to what the media says. Besides that Democrats and base will not support cuts to entitlements.

I wonder if John Boehnor was drunk after he emerged from the meeting?

Glad to see that you can't make any presumptions or ideas of your own. Way to be another political dead head. Who care what party your from as long as you're able to justify why without it being "because Obama said so".

Com'on Man!

Obama is starting to weaken. It seems he is giving in to the Republican demands again. I for one would rather let the taxes for all go up rather than give into the greedy by taking from the needy. Grow a back bone Obama and the Dems and stand your ground. The Republicans will hold Obama's feet to the fire when it comes to the deficit so if Obama gives now then he will give on the deficit debate to the Republicans.

Nice post Khan! You make the valid points the sheeple unsuccessfully try to mitigate.

Is this deal good enough?? That is the question. Boehner does offer some good things: short-term stimulus, at least $1 trillion in revenues, and we at least have the possibility of further defense cuts in future negotiations. Problem is whether it will be enough. I personally argue for perhaps the best deficit-reduction package we have on the table: the so-called "fiscal cliff." The budget would be roughly balanced over the medium term, which would give us ample time for long-term tax and entitlement reform. And the potential recession from going off the cliff would require short-term stimulus, which would include both tax cuts (demand side, of course) and spending packages. Unfortunately, that would never happen, so Obama's plan, however flawed it seems, is good enough.

Republicans, you lost. Admit it. The American people didn't buy the supply-side bull@!$%# that you guys peddled to their parents for years, and they decided that it's time to raise taxes on the rich; after all, we remember that Clinton did pretty good even after raising income tax rates (yes, I realize he cut capital gains rates). You guys have got to quit with the tax-cut crap. It worked for 30 years, but now its time to rethink your message. Democrats like me are going to be pulling you back to the center, the real center, where most progressives and heavily center-left Democrats are today, and we won't stop until your party actually embraces tax hikes to reduce the deficit and economic inequality.

and $130 billion in changing the cost-of-living adjustment for Social Security benefits)

Not sure why they have to adjust social security, it would be bought and paid for 3 times over if they would stop raping it for other then what it was intended for. Also if they would take the cap off so Millionaires and Billionaires would pay their fare share instead of another welfare hand out for the rich, then we wouldn't have to do anything.

Tax the wealthy should be a bumper sticker on every liberals car. Hybrid or electric I assume. The last four years Obama spent creating class warfare is certainly paying dividends, as liberals are screaming for the end of the Bush tax cuts on the top earners so we can add enough revenue to fund the government for 8 days. Then Obama and liberals can spike the football, the cliff will be averted, and our nation will once again be solvent.

Well I guess once you drink the KoolAid stupidity is soothing. But the reality very different. Obama is going to leave office after his second term having added more to our national debt then every previous president combined. Well over 20 trillion thrust upon future generations that will have nothing to show for this generations fiscal irresponsibility. History isn't going to blame the debt under Obama on someone else, which is what liberals do to justify the opulence. History is going to write that Obama did nothing to stop it, and in fact made it far worse.

Rick - the 8 more days thing is a bunch of hogwash. Even so, taxing the rich is a step in the right direction. Will it solve everything? No, but it is a step in the right direction.

The most important thing in this fiscal cliff talk is 'to slow down.' It's important to cut deficit, but the economy is too complex. You don't want to cut too much too fast and push the economy back into recession. Take action..one a time, and then observe. Right now, get some agreement to stop this cliff...that's more important. How much to cut? Take it slow

To live with your means and only borrow money for what is indispensable is the recipe for success. Americans did learn their lesson, they have to cut their spending and pay back their debts , now we have an historical low amount of borrowed money in credit cards, however for Obama there is no limit. This administration doesn't learn from us , yes government must cut defense in smart way that don't leave us in harms way that can embolden our enemy, discretionary spending must be cut in hard way, welfare as well , but Obama instead to promote a plan to increase employment in private sector to reduce welfare ,he create more regulations in one hand that make more difficult the job creation , by the other hand he lower the requirements for welfare recipients, this is insane. We need reforms in SS and Medicare, there is a deficit , not only because all governments with no exception put hands on it , but also because there is an unbalanced income and expenses in SS and Medicare , more over we are taking away 2 % more of our contribution and that need to end also. Bohener cave letting the real rich , not the Obama's rich 250,000 dollars or more, pay more taxes, I hope with this gesture that Republicans are offering , Obama stop putting more barricades in the negotiation to bring some sanity to our economy.

Obskar, once again you mimic the idiot clown Rush. Obama's spending is down about two billion a year. You refuse the facts like a good little ditto head, good boy!!! Now, go lay down by your dish!

Perfect, IR.

I didn't see SNL's children's choral tribute to Newtown but Lawrence O'Donnell replayed the children's choir singing Silent Night with the pictures of those lost; once again, I shed tears.

"We can't tolerate this anymore. These tragedies must end. And to end them, we must change. We will be told that the causes of such violence are complex, and that is true. No single law~no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world, or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society.

But that can't be an excuse for inaction. Surely, we can do better than this. If there is even one step we can take to save another child, or another parent, or another town, from the grief that has visited Tucson, and Aurora, and Oak Creek, and Newtown, and communities from Columbine to Blacksburg before that~then surely we have an obligation to try." President Obama, Sunday.

United We Stand...

This is right out of Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine. The goal of this has always been to cut social security & medicare.

The fiscal cliff is an artificial crisis created by congress who really haven't worked for the American people in years. Then use a real crisis, the horror in CT, as cover to announce a "compromise" that involves cutting social security benefits. Though they were only able to weaken Medicare slightly with means testing they will come for it next time around.

Obama almost had me thinking that he was finally acting like a real democrat in his second term. I should have known better.

Rev, don't become too despondent yet; we are only in Act I of a three-act drama.

Instead of "The Voice's" top three show kicking off with a wild number..... this season's contestants--along with the four coaches, host Carson Daly, and social media correspondent Christina Milian--stood on a candlelit stage singing Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah," while holding individual cards printed with the names (and, even more heartbreakingly, the ages) of each of the horrific shooting's victims

It was probably the best version of "Hallelujah" that I'd ever seen on any singing competition (and I've seen a lot of them). This was an unusually dark and somber moment for a talent show's splashy finale week, for sure--but an entirely appropriate one.

Thank you, "The Voice."

_________

examiner.com oops weblink busted. It is on youtube.

Thanks Jody and Mark

IR - beautiful - thank you for posting. This is one I did not know.

Yelowdog - I heard about "The Voice" tribute but have to go see it. However, that means I"ll be crying at my desk - once again!

Feisty - I am THRILLED Richard Engel and his group are safe and free. It brings a glimmer of light to a very dark few days.

"The Voice"

A bunch of pop music media whores that no one will remember in 10 years. Nice tribute though

Pigotry

The most important thing in this fiscal cliff talk is 'to slow down.' It's important to cut deficit, but the economy is too complex. You don't want to cut too much too fast and push the economy back into recession. Take action..one a time, and then observe. Right now, get some agreement to stop this cliff...that's more important. How much to cut? Take it slow

For once I agree with you. It is not as cut and dry as "cut spending and raise revenues". There are too many variables.

Jody,

Thank you for taking the time to point this out!

The 3 stooges ALL suffer from a severe case of selective OUTRAGE...

GREAT POST!

Perhaps you will hear from those people when the healing has begun, the outrage has subsided, and the emotional response has slowed.

Now is not the appropriate time to discuss legislation.

Jody, even for the person most people here would argue is possibly the best writer on this board, that is one of the most powerful things you've ever written.

Standing ovation.

M.J. - CT -

Without any disrespect to the grieving families, that's what we say EVERY time something like this happens. And then next week or next month the memories and the immediate pain fades a bit and we find other things that are somehow more pressing and nothing ever gets done.

So when IS the "appropriate" time?

Perhaps you will hear from those people when the healing has begun, the outrage has subsided, and the emotional response has slowed.

Why?

Didn't STOP any one of them from grabbing a microphone to politicize the Benghazi tragedy even after family members pleaded for them to cease!

Now is not the appropriate time to discuss legislation.

The conversation will continue whether you want to participate or not...

Like I said, selective outrage at it's finest! lol

Jody

They are silent because they have practically destroyed their credibility.

M.J. - CT

Are you suggesting that we get back into the comfort zone of 'only' 30 people a day being shot to death?

Jody,

You nailed it! Personally, I think they just don't give a damn.

Yesterday there was, predictably, criticism from the Right of President Obama's Sunday evening speech in Newtown. I kept wondering what Romney's speech would have sounded like were he president. Imagine how difficult it would have been for him to express genuine emotion. To shed a tear.

Why is it republicans rant about the violence in the Middle East, the lack of respect for human life in the Middle East, the terrorist extremist culture in the Middle East yet never admit to the similarities here?

Oh, Jody, because shooting a Bushmeister is so much fun, according to Reps like Michelle Bachman. The gun is sleek, lightweight and extremely accurate. Thousands of these "toys" will be under the Christmas tree this year. Surely you don't expect Americans to give up something that is fun?

I'm sure a nuclear power plant would be fun to own too, but we regulate the sale of plutonium.

No offense to the super rich conservatives in general, but a fact is - Adam Lanza and his mother do belong in super rich conservatives - in every group, there are disturbing people...although very few in number

Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. Had the school made requests days and weeks in advance knowing there was unrest and say even threats (even though in the Benghazi fiasco there were no direct threats either to my knowledge except for the sheer vulnerability in the ME) something would have been done within the community through local law enforcement. This came with no warning whatsoever or suspicion with an upcoming "anniversary". Knock off the political comparisons will you lefties PLEASE.

Oh and BTW, since you have politicized it, I see Hillary suffered a "concussion" and won't be testifying on Thursday. Seems she slipped and hit her head on Saturday. Guess the bus won't be backing over her.

Thanks, it needed saying after listening to the months of their unfounded, hateful, slanderous chatter. Coincidentally, First Read also noted their Sounds of Silence today as well.

MJ-CT, those republican representatives and senators had no problem expressing their outrage over Benghazi BEFORE any hearings and BEFORE investigations were complete; no problem heading to the microphones and talks shows while the incident was still happening and before our investigative teams even arrived. Spare us the pro-gun, talking point that "now is not the time". That is what was said after every tragic shooting in this country--"now is not the time to discuss gun laws". There is NO BETTER TIME.

Were they invited? Did they offer and were turned down? Did the moderators say that offers were made but turned down? Few questions that should be answered before throwing stones.

M.J. - CT

Perhaps you will hear from those people when the healing has begun, the outrage has subsided, and the emotional response has slowed.

Gee, didn't you read Jody's post? I'll bet that you weren't saying that when John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Mitt Whatsizface rushed out to the nearest microphones to express their supposed outrage over the Benghazi attack a matter of hours after the attack had occurred and accused President Obama of sympathizing with the attackers for no reason whatsoever. Hypocrite.

Jody, it was my first question last weekend. Where is their outrage?

And I wonder if MSNBC will have Abby Huntsman back on. I certainly hope not. She tweeted something despicable over the weekend and she tried to delete it but it was too late.

These second generation "journalists" that MSNBC love to have on are not "journalists".

They're awful.

Talk To, you failed to mention that the State Department's request for additional money to provide more security in the Middle East, including Libya, was voted down by republicans.....or doesn't that matter? Your comment about Hillary is disgusting but then it runs in the right-wing family.

Ben, yes, the moderators stated that republicans refused their invitations.

MJ,

Did you give the families of those killed in Benghazi time to heal right after it happen? Hell NO...

Another nut job, with a 1 track mind.

Few questions that should be answered before throwing stones.

Given the context of Jody's post, this is ironic in the extreme.

But (since I'm taking bets this morning) I bet that Ben LotsaNumbers will sit there scratching his head going, What's he talking about?

Ben--hint: See Houston's post at #4.14.

Some of the gun lovers are suggesting that all grammar schools should have armed police or trained security guards to prevent something like the Newtown atrocity from happening again. On this one, I agree with the gun lovers. But training and placing those security personnel would be very expensive. I think that the cost be paid for with sufficient taxes on guns and ammunition. If taxes on cigarettes can be levied to pay for the high health costs to the public, then it's reasonable to tax guns and ammunition to pay for the enormous damage they cause to society.

Talk To, you failed to mention that the State Department's request for additional money to provide more security in the Middle East, including Libya, was voted down by republicans.....or doesn't that matter?

Jody, you neglected to submit the total votes turning that request down. 147 Dem to 141 GOP.

Next.

Ben

As a matter of fact, the talk shows did ask Republicans who support gun rights to come on their shows, following the killing of schoolchildren in Newtown, and they declined.

M.J.-CT You said "Now is not the appropriate time to discuss legislation."

When is the appropriate time ?

After 10 children die ?

After 20 children die ?

After 100 children die ?

One death is too many. The time IS now.

MJ: How about the PATIROT Act? That was introduced less than a month after 9/11 and passed only three weeks later. Was it too soon to be discussing legislation then? Let's not forget that it had so many provisions in it, even the people voting for it didn't know what it was about (much like much of Obamacare).

@Houston -- Everything should be on the table. If you want to tax guns and ammo then violent -- almost military simulator -- video games should be taxed to the hilt as well as violent and graphic movies to dissuade attendance. Think those corporate moguls will go along with that? Only a fool believes this is a gun control issue only.

@Amy -- Sure would like to see the links.

THEIR SILENCE IS DEAFENING.

Amen Jody!

As a matter of fact, the talk shows did ask Republicans who support gun rights to come on their shows, following the killing of schoolchildren in Newtown, and they declined.

In fairness Ames, they invited both Republican and Democratic pro-gun Senators to appear...

You're right, not a ONE would attend...

So, Talk To, how did the other 217 members vote? There are 435 members in the House or did only 218 actually vote?

Oops, arithmetic #4.27, that should be how did the other 147 members vote?

If taxes on cigarettes can be levied to pay for the high health costs to the public, then it's reasonable to tax guns and ammunition to pay for the enormous damage they cause to society.

Hi Houston,

That is a Great Idea.

Houston - I agree I think all schools should have armed on duty security officers. However, I agree with you and others that teachers shouldn't be packing. As the first post from Jack said, how are we expecting an untrained civilian, in the thick of the danger to stalk and take down a crazed person. Yes, lets make it a gun tax, or better yet make the manufacturers pay to lessen their culpability by paying the officer's salary. It would be good PR for that industry. Sadly one of the few american industries alive and well by often causing the exact opposite.

No comment on the video games or movies huh??? Can't make a commitment until Obama does?

Ben-636050

@Houston -- Everything should be on the table. If you want to tax guns and ammo then violent -- almost military simulator -- video games should be taxed to the hilt as well as violent and graphic movies to dissuade attendance.

From some of the ads I've seen on TV, some of those games are sick. I haven't heard that any link has been established between violent video games and the Newtown attacker's motivation, but I agree that parents should be monitoring what their children are doing more closely and that public pressure should be brought to bear to discourage kids from playing the super violent video games. There's already a rating system similar to the one for movies to keep underage children from buying them. But how would the government regulate what games children play without infringing on freedom of speech? Talk about your slippery slopes. Defining a limit on what video games are permissible for children is a lot more difficult than determining the cutoff between an assault rifle that fires 50 rounds per minute from 100-round clips and a shotgun used to hunt ducks.

I disagree, I do not think schools should have armed security guards. It just adds more potential for tragedy to the mix. The Newtown shooter broke a window to enter, he did not walk through the door or pass a front desk. Odds are that even if armed, a determined shooter would kill that guard before he/she could pull the secured weapon and fire a shot; we hear of that happening often. We certainly don't want or need security guards walking around with assault weapons at the ready. How many would be needed? One, five, ten, twenty or one at every classroom door? The idea of armed security guards sounds like a reasonable solution but seriously, the odds of it being one are slim.

Hmm. Cause it might be more difficult??? Not a good excuse??? Just as in not allowing certain ability to fire 100 rounds in a minute you are not advocating abolishing the second amendment, by taxing video games and movies to deter that exposure would just be a little of First amendment tweaked. Tit for tat.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-first-clear-link-between-violent-video-games-and-hostility-2012-10

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,446306,00.html

But the gaming industry is scrambling hard now to counter these accusations.

Ben 6350 - Unlike some who are waiting to see what the NRA says after their blackout, I am not waiting on Obama. See my post on Friday, I was enraged when Jay Carney said, "now is not the time to talk about gun control"... I am glad that Obama has seen the light and appears ready to push legislation.

As a parent of a teenager I think the rating system of the video game industry is sufficient. Under 18 and you can't buy mature games. Does he play them at his friends, well... As an person who enjoys video games myself albeit not the gory mature ones, too much is blamed on them. In a word it is about parental responsibility more than government regulation for what you will allow your child to watch or play. Hmm, sounds like an oddly conservative argument.

Me personally I will not let my son watch an R rated movie. I cringe at the utter useless four letter language added to otherwise good action movies. As far as movies are concerned free speech and money trumps values every time. One note I will make, why can a movie show numerous deaths, gory hacking killers and get their PG 13 rating. However show one set of breasts and automatically the movie is R rated.

Ben - had you been actually paying attention, you would have known that every moderator on Sunday - on their shows - commented that they had asked pro-gun advocates from Congress to appear on their talk shows and EVERY ONE refused.

Also, I grew up watching The Untouchables - loved the show - as well as Combat, etc. Never had the desire to go out and replicate the action. Maybe you should get checked out if TV makes you want to hurt people.

Interesting that the NRA Facebook page went black right after the shooting and has not come back up yet. It is almost like SOMEONE there has a conscience - almost but not quite!

The time to discuss is here and now, in fact, the time has been here and now for about the last 10 years. Obviously, conservatives are so afraid they might have to give an inch on gun control (god forbid, gun toting folks be required to pass some sort of certification) that they desperately find another shooting er, em, moving target like violence on TV and in video games. Fortunately, many conservatives are seeing the light and are willing to step up to the plate to view the broader issues at hand.

Morning Joe S. gave a great op-ed piece on his program yesterday claiming now is the time to re-write gun rules. Bob Costas also spoke openly that we need a national re-write. I would venture to say that most NRA members prefer gun safety vs. a shootout at the OK Corral. It is time for the NRA members to replace their leadership and replace their charter. Rather than an organization that promotes the sale and use of guns and bullets to all via lobbying efforts in D.C., how about an organization committed to responsible gun ownership, firearm safety, and most importantly, protecting all citizens from being killed by guns.

ben, really - video games?

people don't die when you throw a video game at them.

Oops, arithmetic #4.27, that should be how did the other 147 members vote?

Well one would assume either "present", "absent" or "yea".

Jody excellent post # 4 bravo!

Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.

2008

http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy_agenda/

And for all you criticizing the Benghazi outrage, two wrongs don't make a write. CT has an AWB, and that did not stop what happended. So when things calm down, we collectively need to agree if anything can be done to prevent anyone from attacking an elementary school; even if armed with ammonia and bleach.

The debate over regulating clip maximums is also absurd. Six 10 round clips may have very well done the same thing as two 30 round clips.

two wrongs don't make a write.

Finally, a "write"-wing extremist that agrees Benghazi-gate was a complete, total, fabricated, farce or more commonly known, a witch hunt.

Well Jody and you other morons, I didn't see any White House staff on the Sunday news shows stating that the attack in Newtown was connected to a hate video. I don't think anyone else did either. FREAKING PATHETIC

@ Sucking Sanity

That is funny isn't it? I think if your facebook page was getting hate messages for something you had no involvement in, you would close it down too. IDIOT

jay

NRC has no involvement with guns? or gun regulation?

prove it

@ Trillian

Prove what? That Seeking Insanity is trying to tie the NRA to the CT tragedy? The NRA had nothing what-so-ever to do with the CT tragedy. What is NRC?

Jay-1891719

@ Sucking Sanity

That is funny isn't it? I think if your facebook page was getting hate messages for something you had no involvement in, you would close it down too. IDIOT

that the "NRA" has no involvement with guns or gun regulation...that is what you implied, right?!

BCWC, well said.

You don't know what you are talking about. If you going to throw out numbers, get them right. It was a semi-automatic rifle. You have to pull the trigger for each shot. You are using numbers from a military gun, not the one used.

Kevin D, does it matter? The point BCWC is making is obvious. The end result is the same, 26 dead; twenty of them 6 and 7 year olds in a matter of minutes.

Kevin D. Hoke

You are correct about the rate of fire possible ... the human hand is capable of pulling the trigger at the rate of 5 times per second. I will therefore knock the amount of rounds down to 7,500. Of course one could go to u-tube and learn how to bump fire the gun and achieve a greater rate of fire. Kevin, the point of my post was to point out the huge differences in our ability to kill today as opposed to when the 2nd Amendment was written.

... and yes, I am aware that the gun would overheat.

black cat b4 you run your mouth know what you are talkinga bout...a 9mm pistol is SEMI automatic and cannot fire 10 rounds a second......only military grade...FULL auto can do that...geez some people rant about @!$%# they know nothing about..YOU CAN'T PULL A TRIGGER 5 TIMES A SECOND EITHER.

THE WHOLE POINT IS NOT THE INSTRUMENT OF DEATH ..IN THIS CASE IT WAS MENTAL ILLNESS...SEVERE

• what the human hand can do with a Smith&Wesson 627
• Eight shots on a single target in 1.00 seconds (S&W Model 627 revolver).
• Eight shots, two each on four targets in 1.06 seconds(S&W Model 627 revolver).
• Six shots, reload and six more for a total of twelve on a single target in 2.99 seconds (S&W Model 625 in .45ACP).

blackcatwhitecat

• what the human hand can do with a Smith&Wesson 627
• Eight shots on a single target in 1.00 seconds (S&W Model 627 revolver).
• Eight shots, two each on four targets in 1.06 seconds(S&W Model 627 revolver).
• Six shots, reload and six more for a total of twelve on a single target in 2.99 seconds (S&W Model 625 in .45ACP).

You're going to use records from the fastest shooters in the world?
It doesn't matter weather the shooter used the Bushmaster .223 or a .22 revolver.
People are hooked on the description "assault rifle".
There was no defense against him.
I'm not saying to arm the teachers with firearms, but what about a taser?
Tragedies like this will unfortunately happen in the future at the hands of other lunatics, we need to be proactive.

JohnWayne,

You realize you are talking to but one person with multiple user names. He (Feisty) just makes up stuff then immediately has all his alter-egos jump in and post in his defense.

I own a Glock 9mm semi-automatic. I go to the range about once a month. I have won a few novice and intermediate shooting contests. So I am better than most. To shoot accurately, it takes me about 45 seconds to shoot 17 rounds fairly accurately. I am probably in the top 2 or 3% in shooting.

But these kooky libbies are posting stats from these guys who do this as a profession. There are like 10 people in the world who can do this. And none of them ever killed anyone.

Liberals. God love em! LOL!

My late father had the occasion to meet more than a couple of Senators and other politicians over the years in the course of his work, and I know that Daniel Inouye was one of the ones he most admired, not just as a hero, but as a gentleman and a gentle man.

The political cynic I sit next to at work is always bemoaning the lack of statesmen in politics today. And even he said first thing this morning that Daniel Inouye was one of the last of the true statesmen.

Aloha and rest in peace, good sir.

DaNoid, thanks for posting this. Senator Inouye epitomized what we expect of our public servants. After his heroic service to his country, he chose to serve his fellow Hawaiians and he did so with intelligence, professionalilsm and dedication. Aloha, Senator Inouye!

DaNoid - the loss of Senator Inouye will be sorely felt in the Senate. He was a wonderful man who truly cared for this country and it's citizens. He will be missed.

Aloha Senator Inouye

Sad to see the old ones go but this is the problem they get too involved with special interests. Ridiculous to have life time terms..........not in the best interest of the public.

Ridiculous to have life time terms..........not in the best interest of the public.

Senator Inouye wasn't re-elected as prescribed by the Constitution? This is news to me.

Who is Carrie Obama?

Just another Tea Bag that knows nothing but hate for our Great President Obama.

It is sad that metaboo allows their hate to fill them up that they can only bedined by that hate.

Just another Tea Bag that knows nothing but hate for our Great President Obama.

and Job1 you would be another another nutjob that follows Obama Branch Davidian style. Because your worship of another living human (in your eyes a diety) is just as whacky. idiot

You lefties decry hate and are the first to spew it daily. HYPOCRITES!!!

Caesar,

You just prove my point, every time you post!

the 98% were getting a tax increase regardless of the fiscal cliff

The 98% have had their share of tax breaks and credits since 2002. This 98%'er is well aware of the problem, know that I will have to pay a little more and am prepared to do so.

The figure I've heard is about $2000 more per AVERAGE household. Some less, some more

My wife and i are middle class, and we'd be happy to pay it, if only it were guaranteed to pay down the deficit, and eventually the debt.

But, that's not going to happen. Maybe it will for a little bit, maybe part if it will be used, but we all know what happens when taxes increase. Spending usually follows.

Mr. Obama keep your hands off Social Security, Disability, Medicare and Medicaid. If you go through with your plans on the Cost of Living we will consider this a STAB IN THE BACK. Mr. Obama, we VOTE!!! Mr. Obama, How would you like to spend 2015-2017 as a LAME DUCK President? We Vote, Do not forget that Mr. Obama Keep your promises to the Seniors and Disabled. KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY MEDICARE and MEDICAID!!!

WE VOTE!!!

Since when have democrats ever followed through with their promised actual spending cuts when republicans give in and let tham raise taxes?

Good, that increase is really going to make a huge dent in the deficit, and spur future revenue...not. Way to feed the uneducated Obama.

Our bloated defense budget needs to be on the table. We are paying billions on weapons that the pentagon says they don't need. We are still equipped with very expensive weaponry designed for a cold war that is long since over. We have fighter jets that are so expensive that they have never been used in combat for the fear of losing one of them.

It is time to get real.

As a republican, I'm far more comfortable with the $400,000 range being the threshold for raising taxes.

And as a democrat, I agree with your statement. I thought the $250,000 figure was too low.

Steve Benen has a really good post about what's going on:

This is no small concession of the president's part. He proposed higher marginal top rates on income above $250,000, while Boehner counter-offered with a $1 million threshold. Obama, despite a strong public mandate on the issue, has moved his figure to $400,000 in this latest offer, with the expectation that the Speaker will be similarly flexible.

The president has also lowered his overall tax revenue target to $1.2 trillion, from his initial offer of $1.6 trillion.

On the other side of the ledger, Obama is offering $1.2 trillion in spending cuts, including $400 billion in health care savings, $200 billion from other mandatory programs such as farm price supports, $100 billion in military spending cuts; $100 billion from domestic programs, $290 billion in savings from lower interest on the debt, and $130 billion is savings from "chaining" the Consumer Price Index. More on that in a moment.

As part of the same package, the president would expect an extension on unemployment benefits, new infrastructure investments, another Alternative Minimum Tax extension, and a two-year debt-ceiling increase (it'd be up to the administration to do the paperwork, though Congress could try to vote for default if it wanted to).

Is this a good deal? At a certain level, it doesn't matter, since Boehner says it's not good enough and it wouldn't pass the House. But since it may very well serve as the framework for an eventual agreement, it's worth paying close attention to its most glaring flaws.

From a progressive perspective, "chaining" the CPI is obviously the most problematic element. For many Democrats in Washington, there seems to be a sense that some kind of entitlement cut will invariably be part of any bipartisan deal, and that the CPI measure is arguably the least offensive of bad options, but that's not much of a defense.

For what it's worth, the New York Times noted that Obama is "insisting on some protections for what he has called the 'most vulnerable populations,'" as part of this CPI provision, but it's unclear at this point what those protections might be.

There's a surprising amount of behind-the-scenes activity on this -- after quite a bit of silence -- and we should know more fairly soon, including whether the entire process will completely fall apart.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/12/18/15992244-obama-boehner-inch-closer-to-debt-deal?lite

Plus, I didn't see any mention of the time frame for the spending cuts. Is this just another "promise" for cuts down the road that never materialize? They need to be just as immediate as tax increases. But, definitely, there should be more cuts than tax increases.

Doug,

Income taxes for those small business owners are only on their gross PROFIT and are only on income ABOVE the $250K or $400K or $1 million or whatever is agreed to. Incomes below that figure will be taxed at the current level, 35% max.

I could agree with you if were a tax on their gross sales and those sales were only $250K but that is not the case.

The time frame is ten years.

J. Willard Marriott

Our bloated defense budget needs to be on the table. We are paying billions on weapons that the pentagon says they don't need. We are still equipped with very expensive weaponry designed for a cold war that is long since over. We have fighter jets that are so expensive that they have never been used in combat for the fear of losing one of them.

It is time to get real.

It's not often I agree with you, so enjoy this while it lasts.

My statement about not hendering the military wasn't to say that the Military should be off the table, but rather, I think there are ways to make the military more efficient. So I agree, I think there are areas to cut, however, it needs to come as an effect of better technology, and more efficient vehicles, and/or methods, and not simply because of finanicial cuts. We as a nation are smart enough to figure out how to make the military run just as well, but be more affordable in doing it.

Dennis, Columbus, Ohio

Doug,

Income taxes for those small business owners are only on their gross PROFIT and are only on income ABOVE the $250K or $400K or $1 million or whatever is agreed to. Incomes below that figure will be taxed at the current level, 35% max.

I could agree with you if were a tax on their gross sales and those sales were only $250K but that is not the case.

I completely understand that point. However, it still effects small businesses, not to mention these same businesses will be effected in one way or another by the ever growing "hidden costs" of obamacare.

My point was, the $250,000 limit would have effected many small businesses that would have caused them to make changes in their business plan. By limiting the increase at the $400,000, or even $500,000, it will really only hit the small businesses that are more successful, and make more than that limit. Those are the small businesses that are doing well, and can afford the hit, which is why I'm fine with it.

Then if you thought $250K was too low, why don't you come out and say it before the president speaks? Don't you have a mind of your own? Are you afraid to give your opinion even though it might go against the president? If he stops at $750,000 will you say you thought $400K was too low after the fact?

who are you talking to Ben? Me or Pat, or someone else?

Doug,

If your profit before taxes (gross annual income) is $250K and above you are doing very well compared to most American families regardless of how many hours a week you work or if you have 10 or 50 employees.

Most small businesses that are struggling are those making less than $100K a year in profits.

Those Obamacare taxes are also tax deductible so those would not be included in the gross profit also businesses with fewer than 50 employees are exempt from Obamacare and most of the new taxes.

Something to Ponder for those who think we should be the World's Policemen.

II. More than 1000 US Bases and/or Military Installations

The main sources of information on these military installations (e.g. C. Johnson, the NATO Watch Committee, the International Network for the Abolition of Foreign Military Bases) reveal that the US operates and/or controls between 700 and 800 military bases Worldwide.

In this regard, Hugh d’Andrade and Bob Wing’s 2002 Map 1 entitled “U.S. Military Troops and Bases around the World, The Cost of ‘Permanent War’”, confirms the presence of US military personnel in 156 countries.

The US Military has bases in 63 countries. Brand new military bases have been built since September 11, 2001 in seven countries.

In total, there are 255,065 US military personnel deployed Worldwide.

These facilities include a total of 845,441 different buildings and equipments. The underlying land surface is of the order of 30 million acres. According to Gelman, who examined 2005 official Pentagon data, the US is thought to own a total of 737 bases in foreign lands. Adding to the bases inside U.S. territory, the total land area occupied by US military bases domestically within the US and internationally is of the order of 2,202,735 hectares, which makes the Pentagon one of the largest landowners worldwide (Gelman, J., 2007).

Source: http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-worldwide-network-of-us-military-bases/5564

Sorry Doug -- Pat

Douglar, Doug and Dennis: you are wrong, it is not on Gross Profit, the tax would be on ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME, after exemptions and deductions.

For those who do not understand the implications of that, consider that for most individuals, in order to get to work, you get into the driver's seat of the car that you pay own and pay for. You drive, you pay for the car, you pay for the gas, oil, insurance, maintenance, all with after tax dollars.

Now take a look at the "average" "small business owner" or "small business president" or VP or manager (pick a title, any title.) His vehicle is owned by "the company", while he may drive it, the company may provide a driver, the company pays for the gas, oil, maintenance and insurance. All paid with pretax dollars, reducing the net income of the company, which may flow to the personal return of the owner. While the personal use of the vehicle is taxable, that is a minimal consideration, since the company will pay the tax for the person anyway. Perfectly legal under the tax code, and, arguably, a necessary business expense since the owner/manager is doing the work of the business.

That is just one of the many items the tax code allows, all perfectly legal. Meals, entertainment, travel, the list of various items fills the pages of the regulations of the IRS. Once all of the various pretax allowed "expenses" take place, only then do we even approach adjusted gross income, from which exemptions and personal deductions (state tax, mortgage interest, contributions, etc.) take place.

I would imagine that changing the tax code to taxing based on revenue would generate trillions. Most of that change would affect the top end of the income level, since that is who have bribed the politicians contributed to campaigns to get the deductions

Louie Bee: with all of your information, you must remember, we are not an imperial country. Right ?

drip,

You are correct … Thanks !

Net sales = Gross sales - (Customer Discounts, Returns, Allowances)
Gross profit = Net sales - Cost of goods sold
Operating Profit = Gross Profit - Total operating expenses
Net income (Net profit) = Operating Profit – taxes – interest

Please.... give them everything they ask for. I so do want to see the effects on all americans. I do so want to see an immediate effect before the 2014 mid terms. I also want to see higher taxes on weapons and new taxes on ammunition. All of these new taxes need to be visable before mid terms also. Lets see what our new life will look like and cost us.

The gulf of divide between Democrats and Republicans is best described by the competing 1040 forms.

The Democrats 1040. How much did you earn? Write us a check for the total and we will give you some of it if you qualify and support our party with your votes.

The Republicans 1040. We have deducted 15% of your gross income to cover the needs of the government to provide for your national safety. Have a great day and may you prosper. As you prosper so will the nation.

The President wants to cut spending too, but raising the age for Medicare to 67 is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Many people are just holding on to age 65 to get medical help, if they wait to 67 it their medical costs will be even higher as they have gone untreated too long.

Still in denial metooboo?

metaboo, You lost. Get over it. Move on and get a job.

I'm so tired of these people putting the budget problem on the back of the working class and the rich not being asked to pay one penny more in taxes. To raise Medicare to 67 can not and will not happen.

Just take it off the curb. Then when the Republicans stall on not wanting to give the 98% restored tax cuts, that act will prove what total POS rat b@stard$, they the Republicans in office are.

@Amy -- Why??? They have Obamacare now. No need for Medicare. Besides, I don't believe they age change would affect anyone over 55 right? Also, Job1, the rich are being asked to pay more.

Also, Job1, the rich are being asked to pay more.

And Grover, The Koch Brothers and the Tea Bags in office are kicking and screaming.

They have Obamacare now. No need for Medicare.

Just love those right-wingers that think Obamacare is a medical insurance program equivalent to Medicare. Good luck trying to sign up for Obamacare Part C.

... well now that it is firmly burnt into my mind ... what's next? Earn your keep here dangerfield, be funny.

Tragedy tomorrow...comedy tonight...;-)

too many of the unintentional "comedians" cramping my style lately also...

(now that I have succeeded in a little brain-burn, perhaps you won't be as surprised by the "surprise" deal)

dangerfield - Read your response to me the other day. Perhaps I unintentionally misread your initial post as too status quo.

Mark-

No one wants to see another tragedy of this type in their lifetime. Even the best laws and best enforcement are helpless in the face of madness.

Dragon, good questions.

It's not that simple, simple.

We don't take in enough taxes to pay our $800 BILLION per year defense budget. We either need to cut it, or borrow to pay for it.

I agree we should eliminate some waste in military spending, but the cuts to military should be with precise accuracy, and not aimless cuts as the "fiscall cliff" would impose. Cuts to military should be decided by a committee of military leaders and military lawmakers, not bureaucrats up on capitol hill.

We should be eliminating waste and abuse in all spending programs like medicaid, medicare, military, and welfare. Medicaid and welfare alllow for systemic abuse at all levels that is costing us hundreds of billions a year, and that needs to stop.

CVPDude. See my comments about the military at #10.11 above.

Noted Louie, but I believe the US has a lot of interests to protect. I don't think we should be the world's policemen either, but in a lot of instances, the rest of the world leaves us no choice because other countries fail to step to the plate in their own back yard. I strongly believe that we should not be giving these countries who fail to step the the plate our finanacial aid.

I don't believe US influence around the world has been mostly negative, I believe our influence has been mostly positive over the years. There is a time and place for the leaders of the US to remain engaged. The world is a very volatile place and global economics coupled with population growth makes it even more volatile. The US can't ignore everything going on.

If we just let the Chinese or Russian's take over, we wouldn't need a defense budget. The saved money could be used to build useful gulags.

Guns are the problem not the solution.

this isn't israel more guns do NOTHING to solve anything

@Marriott:

"Guns are the problem not the solution"...

Ok, let's look at it this way...

Statistically, you have a way better chance today of being involved in a fatal car crash, due to someone texting or talking on a cell while driving. By your "logic", cell phones are the problem there too.

So what's the answer to that problem? Ban cell phones? Many states (if not ALL by now) have MANDATORY "no cell phone use while driving" laws in effect, yet people still do it, causing death and mayhem with wrecks.

Look, ( I know this is going to be raw to say), I am NOT saying that guns are NOT in any way a problem with this tragedy, but the BLAME should ALSO rest on the LEGAL OWNER, who was shot dead by her OWN WEAPONS. A simple TRIGGER LOCK, all of 20 bucks, could have prevented this from happening...

Just saying...

Sincerely,

A dis-satisfied customer and voter...

willard, you are one of many that can not put the blame where it belongs. if you are fat do you blame the fork? use some real thought about this.

patsy: Irsael also requires 2 years of military service for everyone.....do you recommend that too?

You have to understand Patsy, many people on this board need to blame guns, seeing that the SHOOTER blew his brains out when he realized what he'd done, he cannot be held accountable anymore, so the guns get the blame...

Just saying...

Sincerely,

A dis-satisfied customer and voter...

Death by guns in this country is ten times that of any of our NATO allies. Enough said.

J.

It's easy to make those numbers "sound" bigger than they are when in the grand scheme of things those numbers are relatively small. In fact Homicide deaths have fell in recent history. Homicides don't even rank in the top 15 of deaths in America. One list said Homicides accounted for 0.7% of all deaths in the US, and that doesn't breakdown how those homicides occurred.

thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/11/15-top-killers-of-americans/

Guns aren't the root of the problem, education, or lack of is!!

seeing that the SHOOTER blew his brains out when he realized what he'd done,

NO!

He blew his brains out because he was a cowardly prick (like the majority of them) who wasn't man enough to face the consequences of his actions!

He realized what he was about to do when he destroyed the hard drive on his computer to eliminate any evidence of what he was planning to do!

Did you ever consider blowing your brains out? Oh, I do not think you have any, at least working

LMAO....... perfect!

And I'll bet nobody pulled the trigger, the gun just floated into the room and went off. Right?

Did any of you gun nuts read the article? It is about finance, not guns.

Txed89 I find it amazing that some people get so uptight with their hatred, they go off target. J Willard has allowed his hate to define who he is.

willard, it should be obvious-gun, knife, rope or any number of things. they can all kill but it was a person usjng it.

JWillard does seem to be the propaganda machine today. I thought this was a discussion about taxes and fiscal responsibility.

J Willard has allowed his hate to define who he is.

Sharing information on another set of murders committed with a gun defines hate? If this is what we call rational thought, we are doomed.

taxed-891387

ah yes, but deer don't carry semiautomatics, matter of fact deer are herbivores, not really blood thirty at all, but hey, lets make assault weapons available for any tom, dick or harry regardless of their mental fitness as long as it's for "hunting"...

Geez. You lost. Get over it.

No pat, this ENTIRE country has lost. And when the cliff DOES hit, we will lose even more...

Just saying...

Sincerely,

A dis-satisfied customer and voter...

To give Noblaba, the person that single handedly put this country into the debt it is in, by bailouts, frivilous spending and failed programs from the start, is an extremely risky maneuver, that reps will NOT allow.

So, the National Debt was $0 on January 20, 2009, right? Right.

Bush increased the national debt by 4.899 trillion over 8 years. Obama has increaed the debt 4.939 trillion in 4 years.

CVP -

Actually, Obama has added about $6 trillion in less than 4 years. The debt was about $10.5 trillion when Obama took office and it is now over $16 trillion.

The point is Noblaba has put this country in dire financial straits and now feels that the rich and super rich should cover the checks. That's not right...

Just saying...

Sincerely,

A dis-satisfied customer and voter...

"welfare crowd."

Yes, like all of those retired Republicans collecting Social Security and Medicare.

You don't "collect" Medicare. You become eligible for Medicare.

taxed: Like the corporate welfare???

Corporations create jobs. Welfare recipients do not.

cvp dude

well, doesn't seem like corps have been creating jobs so much as stashing money away...

Increase up to 40% for anyone 250k to 500k 45% for 500k to a million and 55%for 1 million and above.

Have you actually ever thought about what you are saying here Tiffany. The rates you are speaking of are only for Federal taxes. So then you throw on state and local taxes, along with countless other taxes to go along with it, and you'll add about 15-20% more in total taxation. That means that 40% you are speaking of for someone, or small business, making 250k would actually be 55-60%. So you really think that someone making 250k should only take home $100,000-$112,500? That seems a little foolish there Tiffany. On the other end someone making $1 million would have a total taxation of 70-75%, making their take home $250,000-$300,000.

So where is the incentive to grow business again?

Agreed

Eugene: I say the same thing "what do guns have to do with this article" but then I noticed how the Democrat Liberal anti-gun screwballs have come out of the woodwork in droves, which almost suggests they find "glee" in this Sandy Town tragedy, so now they can promote their agenda of disarming law abiding citizens. The children aren't even buried yet and the Liberal Media and their followers have pushed their story to the side in lieu of "gun control", strike while the fire is hot and emotions run high, what a bunch of idiots!!!!...