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Subscribe to RSSAmbassador Susan Rice explains her decision to drop out of consideration for secretary of state, saying it was the 'right thing for the country.' NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports.
The Susan Rice story and the importance of picking your fights… Kerry now becomes the overwhelming front-runner for secretary of state… Question: Why did the Benghazi talking points overshadow everything else about the attack?... On yesterday’s “frank” meeting between Obama and Boehner… Jindal: The GOP has been “stupid” on birth control… And “Meet the Press” has Lindsey Graham and Dianne Feinstein.
*** The importance of picking your fights: To explain why U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice pulled out of consideration for the secretary of state post, it’s important to remember this: A president only gets a finite number of fights with Congress, especially in the first year of a second term (which may be the last BIG year a president can win fights with Congress). And appointing Rice as secretary of state was going to be a fight, no doubt about it. So if you’re a White House with a big upcoming agenda (resolving the fiscal-cliff situation, passing comprehensive immigration reform, maybe tackling energy or education) and if you’re split on the top choice on the secretary of state (our reporting indicates that Rice was never the clear-cut favorite), sometimes the path of least resistance is the smart play. And Rice made that very point in her interview on “Rock Center” with NBC’s Brian Williams: “I didn't want to see a confirmation process that was very prolonged -- very politicized, very distracting, and very disruptive. Because there are so many things we need to get done as a country.” Remember, Obama and his team have always been pragmatists, though that pragmatism also brings criticism like this Buzzfeed piece entitled, “Obama Shows Weakness, Again.” But make no mistake: Rice isn’t going away, and she likely gets the next big foreign-policy opening. She took one for Team Obama, and he’ll remember that down that road. And Obama meets with Rice at the White House later today…
Kevin Lamarque / Reuters
U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice listens to U.S. President Barack Obama speak during a cabinet meeting at the White House in Washington November 28, 2012.
*** Kerry becomes the overwhelming front-runner: But the person who’s now the overwhelming front-runner for the secretary of state is Sen. John Kerry (D-MA). As we noted above, the White House was divided about the second-term pick -- some wanted Rice, others wanted Kerry. But what shouldn’t get overlooked is how good of a soldier Kerry was during all the controversy surrounding Rice. Perhaps the top example of this: Earlier this month at a news conference, John McCain, who had been Rice’s top critic, responded to a Kerry introduction by saying, “Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary.” Kerry poked back, “Thank you very much, Mr. President.” Ouch. Of course, the big irony here is that Rice was viewed more as an interventionist like McCain, while Kerry could end up being much more cautious. If Kerry ends up being Obama’s pick for secretary of state, it would trigger a special election for his Senate seat (with defeated Sen. Scott Brown waiting in the wings). Here’s what you would need to know: The special would take place 145 to 160 days after Kerry resigns his seat. So if Kerry steps down on Jan. 21, the special election primary would have to take place between Friday, May 3 and Saturday, May 18. The special general would then have to take place between Friday, June 14 and Saturday, June 29.
NBC's David Gregory and Andrea Mitchell weigh in on the fallout of Ambassador Susan Rice's decision to remove her name for consideration for secretary of state and whether it will have any impact on the fiscal cliff negotiations.
*** Why did the talking points overshadow everything else? The Susan Rice story -- and the politics surrounding it -- also prompts this question for our brethren in the news media: Why did the unclassified talking points that Rice read back in September overshadow everything else about the attack in Benghazi? As the New York Times suggested a few weeks ago, we know more about those unclassified talking points than we know about the state of security for U.S. diplomats in Libya, the suspected terrorist group that committed the attack (Ansar al-Shariah, which isn’t the organization Osama bin Laden founded but which has possible links to Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb), and the status of the United States’ pursuit of Ansar al-Shariah. In recent weeks, Rice and the talking points have even overshadowed the story about what took place in Benghazi on Sept. 11 and the four Americans who died. Rice, in fact, made this point on “Rock Center”: “My greatest regret, to be honest, is the Ambassador Chris Stevens, who was a valued colleague of mine, and our three other colleagues-- what happened to them and why, has been lost in all of this debate over talking points and over me.”
*** The new cabinet: One more piece of potential fallout regarding Kerry for Rice. The other two big cabinet openings besides state are Defense and Treasury. Right now, the front-runners for those two jobs appear to be Chuck Hagel for Defense and Jack Lew for Treasury. Aides to the president have made it clear for years that having a Cabinet that “looks like America” is a co-priority for the president along with qualification. So don’t be surprised if some more effort doesn’t get put into vetting some women for both posts. Might Michelle Flournoy end up getting a second look at Defense? How about Lael Brainard at Treasury? (She has Tim Geithner’s OLD job at Treasury.)
*** A “frank” meeting: Now we turn to the showdown over the fiscal cliff and yesterday’s meeting between President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner. From what we’ve gathered, the meeting was as much about trying to figure out HOW to negotiate as WHAT to negotiate. That’s how stalled the negotiations have become. Both sides released this identical statement after the meeting: “The president and the speaker met for 50 minutes in the Oval Office. The meeting was frank and, as we've said for some time now, the lines of communication remain open.” As was reported yesterday, Boehner is set to leave for Ohio this weekend. Does he really leave? If so, then you won’t see anyone criticize Obama for playing any golf on Saturday or Sunday. One thing is clear: A lot of senators are starting to get antsy; Plan Bs for the cliff are making the rounds with more frequency. At this point, it does seem the two most REMOTE possibilities regarding the fiscal cliff are 1) doing nothing and 2) doing something big. Some patchwork punt continues to be the most likely outcome.
*** Jindal: GOP has been “stupid” on birth control: Turning to 2016 news, don’t miss this Wall Journal op-ed from Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal on birth control: "As a conservative Republican, I believe that we have been stupid to let the Democrats demagogue the contraceptives issue and pretend, during debates about health-care insurance, that Republicans are somehow against birth control. It's a disingenuous political argument they make. As an unapologetic pro-life Republican, I also believe that every adult (18 years old and over) who wants contraception should be able to purchase it." This is the second major op-ed from Jindal in the last few weeks. If you didn’t know before that Jindal wanted to be front-and-center in helping the GOP re-do its image, you know it now.
*** On “Meet” this Sunday: NBC’s David Gregory will interview Sens. Lindsey Graham and Dianne Feinstein on “Meet the Press.” And this week’s “Press Pass” is a sneak peak at the new eBook by Politico’s Jonathan Martin and Glenn Thrush on the end of the presidential election.
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BAH!
Ebenezer Scrooge said that giving Bob Cratchit (his underpaid, overworked clerk) Christmas Day off with pay as per the custom, was "a poor excuse for picking a man's pocket every twenty-fifth of December!".
The Koch/Adelson supporters of the far right don't want to pay a single cent in support of families of the less fortunate, seniors, unemployed, or veterans.
WANTING MORE $MULTI-MILLIONS in the Caymans - does not justify holding safety nets, services, and earned benefits hostage.
I am looking forward to a mirth filled day LMAO at lefty liberal whining and complaining, and pissin’ and moanin’ about Susan Rice.
Here are the facts: There is only ONE person on planet Earth, and in the alternative universe of planet Liberal, who has the power to derail Rice’s nomination to be SOS. His name is Barry Obama. And Barry has decided her nomination was not worth expending his political capital. So he dispatched one of his lackeys to tell her to fall on her sword. As a bonus, Barry gets to create a faux martyr for his low information lefty liberal true believers.
Let the whinefest commence!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW, if Monsieur Jean Kerry does become Barry’s nominee for SOS, he will continue the tradition of Barry’s cabinet nominees having been caught cheating on their taxes. My belief is that Dems LOVE to raise taxes because they know they are all already cheating on their taxes, so raising taxes won’t affect them one bit, they will just have to cheat a “little bit more”.
Life is good.
Enjoy.
The Ayn Rand faction has no place controlling this Fiscal Conversation. Their idea is that everything should be privatized, and those of us without means - are just nuisances picking their pockets.
Meanwhile, 93% of America's wealth has been redistributed UPwards. Had Romney been elected, we wouldn't be in this process of holding his buddies accountable for paying minimal taxes. Let's face it - they thought they were getting away with it.
Of course the Koch-funded tea partiers want to bash government - while protecting their own government salaries and jobs. And they want to deny millions of ordinary families & children the wherewithal to survive, live and be happy.
They would strip the fabled"47%" of every kind of lifeline.
Scrooge got nothing on the House GOP.
John Boehner is taking 3 days off (again) and departing
DC today for Cincinnati and a couple of rounds of golf.
Yeah yeah yeah.... it's all conspiracy and evil rich dudes... we know, Backhouse.
There's sure a lot of financially comfortable people showing up at First Thoughts; very comfortable - some might even say wealthy. They regale us with tales of their wealth. The Albanian idiot tells us of his retreat, his magnificent success in the market, and his diet of fish, beef, and beer.
About that magnificent success in the market. For a guy who measures quality of life in dollars, you'd think he'd be quite the Obama fan. After all, when President Bush left office, the stock market was in a free fall, the economy was crashing, and unemployment was skyrocketing. But our hero from Albany was raking in the dough. And he hates President Obama. Cognitive dissonance, anyone?
And here's another capitalist success story from JH-479998, who writes:
Yes, he laughs all the way to the bank, has enough time on his hands that he can come here and tell us of his wealth, and make predictions about "President Romney" and trash President Obama, you know, the real President. Yes JH, look where we are. The market has recovered, manufacturing is increasing, employment is increasing monthly, and you're laughing all the way to the bank. Cognitive dissonance anyone?
Oh but boys and girls, there's more. This is from the fabulously successful and financially comfortable jack 1792739, who writes to Mike:
As a matter of fact - you know, those nasty fact thingies - it really doesn't matter how jack lotsanumbers manipulates his income. The IRS code is only going to allow him to stash a certain amount of money in his business. The 45% number is a figment of jack's imagination, and even assuming a marginal/nominal tax rate of 39.6% he won't pay 37%. Those really, really hard number things raise the question: Cognitive dissonance, anyone?
These people say they have lots of money and are very successful, but it's sure hard to see how that could be the case. Maybe they're lying.
Dennis ... FR's headline said, "Merry Christmas, suckers". It is inconceivable to any normal personal, for Boehner to walk away from 300,000,000 Americans at Christmas time.
HOUSE GOP: Buckle down, and extend the middle class tax cut before Christmas!
DO IT FOR MILLIONS OF ORDINARY AMERICAN FAMILIES - before you go home to celebrate Christmas with YOUR families.
Extending the middle class tax cut of two thousand dollars a year for an average family, helps to buy winter clothes, gas, rent and food, dental work, cover student loans, diapers.
It will take less than an hour to do. Just bring the Senate bill to the floor!
One of the positives that could arise from Rice not getting the SoS position is that the ensuing divisiveness it would have brought to play would have been of hindrance to the scores of appointments still waiting to be confirmed. One can hope.
As to Joe in the Abyss and his fellow travelers ..
They walked off the demographic cliff and lost the election (it’s not just the economy, stupid), and now they want to toy on the fiscal edge … I sense a spanking fetish … with a salmon? I have heard about spank the monkey, but Spank the Chinook? … batteries optional.
Humbug...said GOP scrooges.
.
Give Susan Rice credit...she is such a class act to drop out. The country needs her more than she needs the State job. She is going to have a great career out of the government. She is coveted by many think tanks and colleges, but the country really needs such veteran diplomats more.
Congrats to Senator McNasty, it only took him 4+ years to finally beat President Obama at something... lol
The one time "Maverick" has relegated himself to a senile, lame, gelding!
Relish the victory with your vendetta, then get back to yelling at pigeons on park benches...
Keep in mind, this is the same idiot who unleashed the pit-bull in lipstick on the lower 48 states actually believing she was qualified to be a V/P! lol
I wouldn't trust McCain's judgement to feed my cats...
Outhouse: The most Hillaryous thing about A Christmas Carol, is that under under the Barry admin, Scrooge would have been in BIG trouble if he gave Bob some more coal for his stove. The EPA would be all over his ass with fines and regulations.
Moron.
The GOP senators of McCain and Graham fight life girls, talking about 'the importance of picking your fights'. Before the 2008 presidential election, I has really like McCain..an American original..a war hero from a great American family with grandfather and father as 4-star navy generals - a first in US history.
.
But then McCain has gone downhill from there ... a truly sad fall from grace ever since. He is truly an arse...demonstrably
WOW David Walker...
You sound a little jealous.
If I were you I would be happy that the people you mentioned had money... that means that there are at least a few 1%'ers that will help bail out this country.
Of course... even those few probably don't have enough to REALLY help the mess we are in (thanks to the 4 year long liberal spending spree we have seen.)
Oh well, after we rape them for all they have... we will move to the next target... people making more than $100K
Yeah... that's the ticket!
Question: Why did the Benghazi talking points overshadow everything else about the attack?...
Answer
The GOP senators of McCain and Graham fight
lifelike girls. Meow..
a correction to #1.11.
The Albanian idiot tells us of his retreat, his magnificent success in the market, and his diet of fish, beef, and beer.
__________________________________________
David Walker: I find your obsessive fetish with my posts to be absolutely HILLARYOUS!!!!
Life is Good.
Enjoy.
Feisty:
McCain, Graham and the other lunatic Republicans, who attacked Ms. Rice without justification, are going to find the true meaning of Pyrrhic victory. They are also going to realize that revenge is a dish best served cold. That dish will be served in 2014.
The Koch brothers have just savored another victory... in turning Michigan into a 'right-to'work' for less state. Shame on Gov. Snyder. Respecting workers is the right way out of the recession, not humiliating them. When workers are enthusiastic, they are more productive.
.
But GOPTP's real aim is to destroy a core Democratic party base; and at the same time, GOPTP's cronies in the Supreme Court have helped GOPTP in the 'Citizen United' case, boosting their funraising power.
The answer to that question is that the GOP was more interested in discrediting Rice than they were in finding out the truth of what happened...and of course the media played right along, since all they seem to do anymore is stir up controversy.
Sick of the Bickering,
You're right the spending spree started 4 years ago and not 30 years ago.
How does it feel to be so blantantly ignorant? You and many others wear it like a badge of honor.
Face it - the GNOP is the greatest ANTI - American organization going right now....they fought the Zadroga Bill to help 9/11 First Responders who are now suffering the consequences of working on the pile of the World Trade Center ruins....they love to send our troops off to war and then vote to cut the help they need when they return injured....as an article in one of todays NY Newspapers shows that after hurricanes Katrina and Ike - aid was sent to the affected areas within a month...and now..7 weeks after Sandy devastated parts of the east coast how much money has the government sent? $0 - as in bupkis....
If you can't see the writing on the wall - all the GNOP is interested in protecting the koch's, adelson's trumps and other "small" business people who spend millions of dollars this past fall in their failed efforts to make Pres Obama a 1 term president....well...they LOST!
The GNOP are little children who are out to keep on saying no to Obama - they were given the chance last year to get 95% of what they wanted and they said "NO"..for them it's all or nothing and s**** the rest of us.
David,
Great comment!
I would add, in my experience, those who are truly wealthy don't brag about it while hiding behind a keyboard on an anonymous political chat room!
Look how many of them have disappeared since Team Willard stopped their paychecks? lol
True wealth is always understated...
No kidding!
If the 3 stooges believe Ms. Rice is going to ride off quitely into the sunset, they're dumber than I previously thought!
Question: Why did the Benghazi talking points overshadow everything else about the attack?...
Answer: The two Drama Queens John McCain & Linsdey Grahm plus the media whores over@ FOX NOISE aka the Republican Party Headquarters are @!$%#s who are evil obstustrustist.
Why did those evil ass bas-turds deny $60 million to Hurricane Sandy victims? They did so for the same reason stated above. The GOP/TEA Potty jihardists are at war with American and X-mas.
From today's Newark Star Ledger on Corey Booker's Food Stamp Publicity Stunt.
Pretty bad? An example of someone down on their luck needing temporary assistance?
24 years old and a single mother of 3. This is where I break with social conservatives. As long as this woman is on assistance she should be prevented from breeding. Enough! Sterilize her, and when her children are old enough to reproduce they should be forced on to the 90 day contraceptive plan until they are productive members of society.
I recently heard this statement. "Democrats love poor people and want to create more of them. Republicans love rich people and want to create more of them".
Well, from what I can see Democrats know how to achieve their goal.
I am childishly turning my back on Feisty this morning, and I hope my friend IR will join me in condemning the hurtful words that she carelessly uttered last evening.
Like a dagger those words were!!! ;-)
Dangit...I miss watching my Capitals play. I've been reduced to watching Alexander Ovechkin goals on YouTube and playing out the hockey season on the Xbox with my kids!!! Mr. President...forget the fiscal cliff...fix the hockey lockout first.
(OK...having a bit of fun this morning...I'll stop)
Anyway...here's to hoping the two sides in the fiscal cliff can get their heads together and figure something out.
Have a great weekend all!! :-)
...and if they thought for a few minutes, they'd realize, as David Walker points out, that Democrats are better for them too. Stop being shortsighted by worrying only about taxes. Your income really comes from a healthy middle and lower class that actually buy your products and services.
Hello, Alan?? Which party wants to limit abortion rights? Which party is dead set against Planned Parenthood and access to contraceptives?
You do know where babies come from?
As usual this morning, Chucky T. is still pushing his Insane Clown Posse discription of President Obama Not being a good Negoiater, because he Won't relinguish Presidential Powers to Turd in Line Speaker Boehner. Whats being missed in All this Bull$hit is the Fact that Senate Minority Defensive Captain McConnel is silently waiting to BLOWUP Any deal. One needs No further Proof than 2 years ago, after a Deal was reached, McConnel called VP Biden to say, this is what you can get from the Senate.
I'm more inclined to beleive what Rep. Van Holen is pushing about Speaker Boehner caring More about his caucus vote on Jan. 3rd 2013, than he is about The United States of America. We'll havta wait & see, but That narrative is looking more Transparent than what Chucky T. is pushing!
Speaker Boehner knows he does'nt have the Votes from his GOP Majority & therefore won't risk being looked at as Compromising with Democrats(who he'll need to Pass Anything)either Now or in 2013.
So, this is where it Stands, President Obama can just sit back & enjoy the Show, watch the GOP Implode!
Nuttin like being dealt a Royal Straight Flush & everyone in front of YOU,Betting the Farm!
You Betcha!
Occupy SoggyBottom!
David Walker - tha man who knows so little about so much
Yes the unemployment was going up and the market was in a free fall, AFTER the dems took total control of Congress. And yes, I laugh at people like you everyday as I deposit my earnings in spite of the assinine agenda of all you progressive/liberals. You might do yourself some good to get off your rear end and step away from your computer. Maybe you too could earn a little more and start feeling a little more satisfied with your lousy situation.
Please explain to me why all of the clowns on the left keep bitching about how unfair things are when you say the markets are back, manufacturing is increasing, and employment is increasing? Are you never satisfied? But I guess that a bag of wind just can't get any satisfaction.
I would like to see us go off the cliff. I can then sit back and probably pay an extra $20K in taxes but would gladly do that just to see yours go up $2K.
@ Feisty Redhead- you posted that "I would add, in my experience, those who are truly wealthy don't brag about it while hiding behind a keyboard on an anonymous political chat room!"
As a friendly amendment, I'd add that they usually hire the less fortunate to do that onerous task for them.
Another viewpoint to consider...if we don't get a handle on our deficits, the poor and middle class will pay a terrible price when we become the next Greece. The upper 1% will always be fine - they have the means and skills to survive (and usually flourish) pretty much any economic catastrophe - including another depression. It's the poor and middle class that always suffer.
So, for the good of the poor and middle class, I hope both parties truly compromise and address BOTH the revenue and spending side of the equation. This means tax increases and spending cuts. At this point the hole is so large I really don't see a solution that doesn't involve tax increases on the middle class and cuts to entitlements (and defense cuts as well)...but if someone has a viable alternative then I'd love to hear it.
The Koch/Adelson supporters of the far right don't want to pay a single cent in support of families of the less fortunate, seniors, unemployed, or veterans.
Any proof?
The Ayn Rand faction has no place controlling this Fiscal Conversation. Their idea is that everything should be privatized, and those of us without means - are just nuisances picking their pockets.
You obviously know jack about Ayn Rand.
24 years old and a single mother of 3. This is where I break with social conservatives. As long as this woman is on assistance she should be prevented from breeding. Enough! Sterilize her, and when her children are old enough to reproduce they should be forced on to the 90 day contraceptive plan until they are productive members of society.
Right there with ya Alan! They did an article in the Oregonian this last summer praising our governor for the health care package he passed. The example they used was a lady with seven (SEVEN!) kids that was on meth and how much it was going to help her. Federal government should only allow one illegitimate child on my tax dollars. If the father doesn't pay child support, then do what a judge did in the last month, forbid him from having sex according to his parole. If the woman gets knocked up again, it's all on her. The whole free breeding without responsibility really needs to stop. Having a child is a blessing, but it's also a responsibility. It is NOT a ticket to a free ride, which is what far to many use it as. Of course, then we get into the anchor baby conversation...
Another viewpoint to consider...if we don't get a handle on our deficits, the poor and middle class will pay a terrible price when we become the next Greece. The upper 1% will always be fine - they have the means and skills to survive (and usually flourish) pretty much any economic catastrophe - including another depression. It's the poor and middle class that always suffer.
Ah someone else that gets it... finally!!!! The middle class is already the only class suffering due to ACA, we WILL be the ones suffering due to the deficit. The poor will only suffer once the government runs out of the working class money. The rich will ALWAYS be fine. Just waiting here to see how much my middle class taxes are going to go up next year. It will happen regardless of what agreement is made. Obama will HAVE to raise our taxes to pay for his agenda since the rich tax increase won't even make a dent in it.
I've stated this before. I am for choice but see the need to change the time abortions can be performed as technology advances; I am very uncomfortable with partial-birth abortions. I understand that the pro-choice movement will see these type of limitations as a slippery slope to a complete ban. I understand their fears on this point. I will remain on the Clinton line of "available, safe and rare".
On contraception I am all for it including Plan B, although I do not agree with the NY school system dispensing Plan B without parental notification. My other point on the contraceptive mandate is I still have not heard a convincing argument as to why it should be exempt from co-pays.
At the end of the day I stated I do not agree with the social conservatives position.
Lovely Alan ... and how about chopping off some gonads to boot. Hmmm, 13 year-olds forced to take contraceptives ... sterilization ... the poor must cease reproducing ... bring on the Reich.
Nope not going there Grimey. Your going to have to stand on your own for that first part. I will agree on the second part and hope that President Obama realized what he has done to our Hockey prospects by saying he's for it. Now them dang Yahoo's are going to have to filibuster it just to prove a point. Keep my hockey out of politics or issue an executive order or something.
Give Susan Rice credit...she is such a class act to drop out. The country needs her more than she needs the State job. She is going to have a great career out of the government. She is coveted by many think tanks and colleges, but the country really needs such veteran diplomats more.
Pigotry, beautifully said. She is a class act. The GOP are not.
Did you see the report that came out yesterday where it said torture did not help getting info?
The GOP make me sick what they did to her. I don't even know if President Obama was going to select here, but the very idea that the GOP can judge her after what they put our nation through is so sad it's laughable.
If its not a free ride, then should we get RID of using children as a tax deduction? After all, that forces higher taxes on americans who do not have children. So no free ride there either right?
LOL...you crack me up as always IR. Just having some fun this morning. Feisty's comment cracked me up last night and I had to give her some good natured grief. The good news is that currently the Capitals are in first place and Ovechkin is the frontrunner in the NHL season my kids and I are playing on Xbox. Woo hoo.
Have a good one my friend.
Hey Dan... you want to talk stupid... go right ahead.
My point is that prior to your boy taking office the national debt (for all of the prior presidents) was just under $10T... in four years Obummer increased it to nearly $16T.
I would say that a 60% increase constitutes a 'SPRENDING SPREE'... wouldn't you (stupid).
Now put on your BADGE biatch!
blackcatwhitecat,
I'm against sterilization, but I think something needs to be done in cases where someone is essentially rewarded for having more children they cannot support. Maybe something like not being able to receive the government support until they receive the monthly prevention shot?
Also, I would not penalize the children at all...they deserve to be treated as responsible members of society unless they prove otherwise.
Or how about you accept that welfare is not working and does produce dependency? Explain to me what part of this assistance will be temporary? Isn't that the big argument of the left that we need a safety net to help those who are down on their luck back to their feet? How about after Hurricane Sandy the rest of the country keeps sending money to NJ for all those affected. 100B a year for the next 50 years please.
That work for you? It's the same principal.
I so agree with this. All would offer is that each person should get a higher deduction that includes the current dependent allowance. Then if a family (of two parents, gender irrelevant) wanted to have two children there would be no tax change. Go for three and you start paying for your choice.
More Trading Places
“Yeah. You know, it occurs to me that the best way you hurt rich people is by turning them into poor people.”
Billy Ray Valentine, “Capricorn”.
Happy Friday!
Salud
Alan, you also said this:
Shouldn't that hold for every 13-year-old girl in America then? Or do you favor sterilizing the children of the poor only, in an attempt to limit breeding to the upper classes?
I'm reminded of Josef Mengele somehow...
So the inexperience keeps showing, Rice who gets thown under the bus by Obama, what a guy! Obamacare, Democrats not liking what they voted for. A tax on medical devices kicking in and will cost jobs, what a plan! The New Jersey Dem. who has a sexual predator working for him, of course this was delayed til after the election. Other than tax the rich and kill the medical device makers, what the hell has he done?
JH lotsanaumbers:
I will no longer waste time on you. Those with a shred of intelligence know you're a phony. (They're nicer than I am. I know you're a liar.)
If you were a businessperson you would know that there was no way the Democrats (capital "D" nitwit) could have damaged the economy to the extent we saw at the end of 2008. That was 30 years in the making. Further, as I told you earlier, President Bush NEVER vetoed a single spending bill and your BS contention about the threat of a veto override ignores the FACT that Democrats did not have enough votes to do that.
To put a slug of exclamation points on your contradictory stance, you write:
Who's bitching about unfair? You must be kidding. It's Republicans who have been whining about being victims for the last four years. If you are referring to "unfair tax rates", you will have to go elsewhere for an answer to your question. I have repeatedly pointed out that "fair/unfair" is purely subjective. However, income taxes should be raised on the wealthiest Americans. Hell, I'd add a surcharge for those making more than a million annually.
Never satisfied? I can only speak for myself. Based on your status as filthy rich victim, I can only say I am far more satisfied than you are, and likely more than most. I'm not a victim and in terms of wealth, mine is beyond measure.
I am building a new business that I believe is more in tune with new economic realities. After all, the trick to building a successful business is meeting the needs of prospective customers. Yes, you really cannot do it alone.
As you say:
Reading your posts, I'd go beyond guessing. You make it quite clear that a bag of wind can't get any satisfaction.
You really must improve on your prevarication.
BCWC, nothing like that has been heard since NAZI Germany in the 30's. It is true the Republican party has been leaning more and more toward the Fascist form of government that produced the most evil leader ever. Next it will be ok to sit old people on the side of the hill to starve to death so as to complete the prediction of Plato's republic.
...and I was think more of Idiocracy
Seriously though, this woman should be prevented from further breeding until she is off the taxpayers dime. Her kids have to make their own decisions, that was definitely just stirring the pot. As to the men, if they can be tracked down then every dime possible should be extracted in child support. Unfortunately, they are probably living off the taxpayer too.
Vasectomies are reversible though?
SOTB,
However you make that statement without accounting for inflation. To reduce outside factors like inflation it will require comparing the debt to our GDP.
Today we are at 100% of GDP. In 1945 we were at 125% of GDP and on a path to pay it off completely by about year 2000.
Instead in 1981 President Reagan increased spending while cutting taxes causing our debt to nearly double compared to GDP by 1992. Our debt went from 37% of GDP to 69% of GDP.
David Walker - Will you be unionized? Will you insure your employees? And if so what are your costs?
Yea!! Nazi comparisons...
Debating tactic of the left: When you have no real facts on your side accuse the other of being like the Nazis.
Sick:
How do you feel about Reagan/Bush I? $1T to $4T in 12 years? QUADRUPLED the national debt.
Bush II went from projected ZERO debt by 2010 to that $10T debt in 2009? Righ,t YOU guys have the plan to fix things. FIX them to get worse. ...and you call US stupid.
Susan Rice is a political punching ball used for this administration to protect the White House and the State Department. She has to many secrets about the lies of Benghazi , if this Administration let her go under the scoop though a process under oath, that is required for he nomination, she will be force to open her mouth or do perjury .
Hi honey, I'm pregnant again ... it's twins this time ... are we screwed?
When one reads the sophomoric attacks of the partisan nincompoops here it should come as no surprise that the people in Washington are so incompetent. The best and brightest won't put up with their nonsense.
No, No, No, No. You will have to pay for YOUR children!
Do you understand the concept of responsibility?
Courtesy of The Weekly Standard
Footprints on the Sand of Time
Dec 17, 2012, Vol. 18, No. 14 • By WILLIAM KRISTOL
Salud
Well, well, well, now we have a new rewrite on history, according to the RWNJs on the planet. And no surprise here, it is an accelerated version, much like the world was created 6,000 years ago and dinosaurs and gladiators fought to the bloody end in the Roman Colosseum. Now we have the Democrats taking over Congress in 2007, and in 14 months the housing bubble was created and peaked, lax lending practices began and peaked, unpaid wars, tax cuts, and Medicare Part D were all implemented. And to think, it all occurred in 14 short months leading up to the global financial meltdown in August 2008.
Well JH, I'm sure you will agree in your version of The History of the World According to Right Wing Nut Jobs, that the democratic controlled Congress was at least productive.
An answer to those wondering why the Talking Points became a big Issue. We Americans hate our leaders lying to us - either directly or through our mouth pieces. Discussing "talking Points" that everyone (perhaps Susan Rice) knew were false long after they were known to be false, and trying to sell them to the American public. Hated it when Powell did it. Hated it when Condi Rice did it. Still hate it
You guys do realize the child tax credits are designed to encourage procreation?
We need more bodies to pay taxes to fund the baby-boomers retirement. It's an investment.
Let start with the 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
I wonder how Susan Rice feels after being told to lie to America, and not being able to get the Sec. of State job because Obama wanted to be reelected? Can you see it any other way?
Spending in 1978 (Carter) was 458b. Spending increased 15% in 79, 12% in 80, 8% in 81 and 7% in 82. Where was all that Reagan spending???
Similarly tax revenue in 1978 was 399b increasing 13% in 79, 10% in 80 and 13% in 82. If there were massive tax cuts in 81 how come revenue INCREASED 13% in 82???
Facts are not on your side.
geo - lotsanumbers:
Really, you've already been identified as a low-intellect troll. Must you advertise this fact again with such an idiotic post. However, since I will not be dealing with you again either - deep-sixed to ignore - I'll answer the questions in your post:
Probably not. If I hire any, perhaps. I don't know yet.
Wow...in that film, Fox News has won. Conservatism has run amok. Scary.
Do you know her personally? Perhaps she was raped, couldn't afford an abortion, and had to accept 'God's gift'. How would you propose she be prevented from breeding when it might not have been by choice?
At least you admit that your idea of sterilizing poor children is a sick idea.
Ah yes, the men! If we could only control THEM somehow! Maybe limit their insurance coverage for Viagra? Put saltpeter in poor men's water?
You've got work to do, Alan. :)
RedDev,
Yep, it's ALL due to the 2006 Dem "takeover" of Congress. Of course, no one can point to ANY policy change whatsoever that they passed that so magically and quickly tanked the economy, but hey, it's a good story.
http://zfacts.com/p/57.html
Goes well with the story that the poor city dwellers are the leeches of our country, when it is really the unpopulated Red states that are the takers.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union
Q22,
You seem to have the answers, so explain if all those things were fact then why did the National Debt increase so sharply ?
Q22,
Reagan-Bush QUADRUPLED the national debt in dollar terms and DOUBLED it in GDP terms.
Facts are Facts.
You can dissemble the details, but beginning to end, that's what happened.
See this for a little explantion:
http://zfacts.com/p/1195.html
I am still not sure if the White House set this woman up to fail by giving her bad info, or if she was this inept and caused her own downfall by providing misleading statements. Clearly though these are the two choices.
A. White House set this woman up.
B. She was inept, and not qualified for this role.
Either way, she is gone, and it is time to move on.
President Obama wants us to go over the fiscal cliff
A contraceptive implant is a birth control device inserted under the skin by a doctor. The implant is among the most effective birth control methods. After it is inserted it prevents pregnancy by releasing hormones that prevent ovaries from releasing eggs and by thickening cervical mucous. The implant can prevent pregnancy for up to three years.
I would hope that her partners did not require Viagra. Why do you bring up Viagra? Why is this always the response when contraception is being discussed? As I said, if you are a man and you father children that you cannot support what is wrong with a vasectomy as a condition of your welfare?
Is your solution the status quo?
"The importance of picking your fights".....my ***
Obama got skunked on this one, plain and simple.
This broad was involved in the process that denied additional security to our consulate in Benghazi. The result of which was the death of Ambassador Stevens, and three of his staff members. Following that, she carried water for Obama by openly LYING about the cause of the attack. Then you wonder WHY people with more than just half a brain don't want her in charge of the State Department. (?)
It's disgusting, truly disgusting to see someone like this pull down six figures as a career government employee.
She needs to go home and do some soul searching. Following which she needs to go find a real job.
For one, if people were fully employed AND could count on JOBS WITH FAIR PAY AND BENEFITS, then medicare and social security would be doing just fine. That these worker-funded programs are ailing simply means that employment and wages in this country are plummeting and that's what should be of concern.
Second, the people who post here aren't rich or even financially secure. They are brainwashed and of the type who VOTE AGAINST THEIR OWN INTERESTS in the belief that CORPORATE WELFARE must be upheld even if it means that they don't get pensions, or social security, or enough money to get pay a doctor to treat them.
Third, I didn't even like Susan Rice. But what bothers me is that Obama's administration is less diverse, especialy ethnically, than George Bush's.
KB,
You're absolutely wrong and have a distorted view of recent history....the GOP wasn't more interested in discrediting Rice than they were in finding out the truth of what happened...if you remember, they asked incessantly what happened and were given a DIFFERENT answer from Obama EVERY SINGLE TIME! They wanted to know what happened; Obama played games and wouldn't tell them!
I didn't see anyone on the right make a fuss like this over Condoleeza Rice. It's the same situation. She was told to relay the information. If the Republicans can forgive Condoleeza no questions asked, than what is so hard about doing the same with Susan Rice? I'm not even a Democrat and it seems fair to me. I don't understand why we were focusing so much on Bengahzi anyway, and why if we are focusing on Bengahzi that Susan Rice of all people was the target. We have bigger issues back here at home. Like fiscal cliff, Susan Rice's situation should not have even been an issue. Like Condoleeza, she was told to relay certain information. There was no investigation for on her for that... Heck, the Republicans even said we should forgive her! But because it happens on the other side of the political isle, they are already to jump at every possibility to attack the Democrats.
Speaking of fiscal cliff, some of us here would prefer we would have focused on that mess our incompetent government created rather than wasting even more of our precious time trying to persecute a scapegoat. Like Susan Rice, fiscal cliff should have been a non issue. But again, we seem to like to make messes where they have no reason to exist. And I'm getting darn tired of it. Why must big deals be made out of the dumbest and most irrelevant things when we have real problems in the USA like the economy, jobs, the debt, and the fact our government is shut down by a bunch of incompetent morons who can't even do the dam jobs the people elected them to do in the first place? Rather than play political bash ball, can somebody please tell these clowns that they have a government to run?
They became a big deal because she was the point person sent out on the Sunday talk shows to float a story that was quickly proven to be absolutely false. The administration knew that the story she was floating wasn't true, and that hurts her credibility immensely. She showed herself to be a partisan hack, willing to lie through her teeth for purely political reasons. She demonstrated that she would NOT be a good and credible choice for secretary of state. This incident was a test of sorts for how she would handle an international incident, and she failed miserably. Of course, "Swiftboat John" is really no better of a choice. Isn't there a democrat somewhere who is actually PRO-American?!
ZMan,
[Ambassador Stevbens, and three of his staff members.]
At lest 2 of the 3 were NOT his staff. The 2 were ex-Seals and worked for the CIA.
Yo, Q22, you book burning Nazi pig, please explain why you have a problem comparing Republicans to Nazis, but are perfectly ok calling Democrats anyone of the following: Socialist, Marxist, Communist, Fascist, etc, etc, etc. But hey, we already know a double standard exists, right brown shirt, SS butt-licker?
@ Bruce,
Partisan hack? You mean like every Republican in congress? Or you? The same fricken sort of thing happen with Condoleeza Rice! The Republicans told us to forgive her! Partisan hack my you know what! As an independent, I am increasingly amazed at the double standard people like you have! It is tearing our country apart. We have more important things to focus on than Bengahzi. Even if we focused on that, Susan Rice should have been a non-issue.
ZMAN2012-
Fixed it.
Now that's the truth.
Salud
SickOfTheBickering,
I believe my previous statement still stands and you have yet to actually address it with anything other than putting your fingers in your ears, saying no, and stamping your feet. You do amuse me though and thanks for playing.
I brought up Viagra because it IS covered under insurance and men don't seem to have a problem with that, only with women having equal access to their prescribed medications.
Conservatives do not want to pay for women's contraceptives...or hadn't you heard.
As for vasectomies, do you support taxpayer-funded sterilization procedures? Would taxpayers cover only procedures for those on welfare and not the general poor?
I agree we need comprehensive welfare reform. Poverty in America is a complex economic and social issue that cannot be solved by sterilizing and starving the poor.
OK, I can understand Fascist being insulting. Communist maybe because of Stalin. Marxism to me is an economic theory like Keynesian or Monetarism. However, why is Socialist an insult? You equate Nazi with Socialist?
Reagan never had a Republican Congress. The Democrat controlled congress put entitlement spending on COLAs (Cost of living allowances) that. in effect, put entitlements on autopilot and took it out of discretionary spending. Between 1980 and 1992 when (Reagan through Bush1) when COLAs were in effect welfare spending jumped 58%, healthcare jumped 73% and pensions went up 64% - by contrast military spending went up only 51%. Because of Democrat Congressional rules, Reagan and Bush could do nothing about entitlement spending and it was entitlement spending that exploded in the 80's
Tax revenues increased 47% from 80-92 while spending jumped 57%. It's always been a spending problem and the Democrats are the big spenders.
David Walker, be careful that Obama's tax the "rich" making over $200,000 and $250,000 proposal doesn't bite you in the pocketbook and tank your business........that would be funny.
But condoms are not. The sexism. I actually think coverage for Viagra is joke, and my point about contraception is around co-pays not coverage.
Only for dead-beat fathers, which should also cover that Republican congressman.
Actually that is one solution. I don't see it being implemented anytime soon though :)
Q22,
That doesn’t come anywhere close to covering the doubling of our debt.
It accounts for less than 10% of the increase.
Where was his veto pen ?
Dennis,
Last night Zipper-Man claimed 4 diplomats were killed. When asked to provide some back up, he ran like a scalded cat...
ZMan2012 Comment collapsed by the community
Care to attempt to back up your bull@!$%# this morning Mr. Brilliant?
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
This clown doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground...
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it is only an opinion.
We still don't have all the facts, do we? The FBI was unable to begin their investigation due to the volitility in Libya, yet the GOP demanded answers that simply were not available.
If you cannot see or admit that the GOP trumped up the incident in Benghazi to attack this administration, then you are clearly missing half the picture.
Q22,
See the zfacts link:
http://zfacts.com/p/1195.html
Your talking point is TOTALLY wrong.
Wow... I can't believe these blow-hard Lefties trying to make Susan Rice into a saint by calling her "a class act". Only an idiot will not see that she's being pushed out by her own party (Obama himself), not because she has class to step down. I guess to these Lefties, lying is a class act since it's in their blood. You Dems and Lefties don't understand that you'll never make everyone equal... Even your party leaders don't give a rat @ss about you. They are there in office for one thing and one thing only, lining their pocket with your moola. I can promised you that majority of them are the "1%" that you all hate so much. What has your Obama done to help you? Nothing... all rhetoric to get all his Lefty minions' votes. Now don't go bringing up "Obamacare" because you all know it's going to cost all of us big time. One fee uncover so far, $60+ per employee... guess who's going to pay for that, certainly not your employer. It's coming out of you and me, those that are working.
First, Viagra is a medication to fix something - just like other pharmaceuticals. Birth control, on the other hand is to prevent something natural from happening due to a voluntary action. It is akin to a drug that allows you to binge drink without getting a hang-over.
Second, Viagra is not given away free. Like any other pharmaceutical it is subject to copays and deductibles. Under the Obama rules, contraception is a freebie - not subject to copays or deductions.
In other words - a stupid analogy.
Dennis,
Forget about the Reagan veto pen, the Democratic Congress reduced the spending bills compared to what Reagan asked for.
See my"zfacts" link above
Truth from the left . Like the ones S. Rice described in her statements in 5 Sunday shows?.
SBO,
Thanks – Q22 is trying to cover for Saint Reagan when he started most of the economic problems we encounter even today with his trickle-down lie.
______________________________________________
Well Good morning Redhead,,,,,,
,,,,,, and congratulations.
There is almost a glimmer of a fact based comment in your 4th line above. You know, sandwiched in between your typical name calling and high school level insults. Keep up the good work, and remember, facts do matter.
______________________________________________________________
Posted Feb. 11th , 2012;
____________________
.
To Alaska Girl, American Girl, Redhead, Pigotry, and all the steadfast Susan Rice supporters;
.
Look girls,,,,,
,,,, I also dislike McCain (and typical Republicans),,, but I was also NAUSEATED and disgusted as I watched Susan Rice make the rounds and push her phony discourse about the cover up of facts/reasons for the attack and murders in Libya. I was sickened & disgusted by her actions from the first two TV appearances BEFORE any editorials appeared.
(Add to that Rice's investment holdings in the Canadian pipeline along with other problems in her past associations, and there is just no way an aggressive brown nose like her is qualified to be Secretary Of State.)
Susan Rice will not be Secretary Of State. It won't happen, so get used to it. And do not blame it on McCain. It is her own damn fault for accepting the role of stepping on that land mine and lying to the American public at the request of the Obama administration.
.
Further, you may not be aware,,,,
,,,,, but the role of Rice spreading that B. S. about Benghazi SHOULD have gone to Hillary Clinton. But Hillary was too "exhausted" to go out and tow the party line.
In other words, she was too damn smart and sat aside and watch this mess explode all over the naive Susan Rice. ( Hillary may be our next president and she just side-stepped a land mine.)
.
So please, get over it with this tired support of Rice. She has no one to blame but herself and she will NOT be secretary Of State. Period.
___________________________________________________________
.
That being said several days ago,,,,,,,
Please do not worry about Susan Rice.
She is smart, very aggressive, and now Obama owes her a big favor for taking the heat by asking her to lie about the administration shortcomings and total lack of appropriate security in Benghazi.
( But don't blame it on McCain or the republicans. And no, I am not republican nor democrat.)
Susan Rice will be just fine.
It's Christmas Time
I think we all can agree it's time to end Corporate welfare, time to make Lobbying illegal, time to hold the media accountable for lying, time to end Citizens United, time to thrown all the corrupt bankers in jail, freeze their ass-sets (LOL) and use that money to give the hard working American Middle Class a much needed and deserved raise.
Then, if we have any money left over, we'll make sure it trickles up.
Salud
So, if this was fiscally irresponsible it what way does it justify Obama's spending?
End corporation taxes and go after the individuals.
I am no Democrat, but is it that unreasonable to forgive her and move on to more important things? I did the same for Condoleeza Rice at the Republicans plea when she was in the same kind of situation. It's only fair that I forgive Susan as well. Or should we go back and investigate Condoleeza Rice instead of focusing on something that actually matters? Something that matters like say this fiscal cliff mess our incompetent government created? Yet another big deal made out of nothing has turned into the threat that could plunge us back into economic depression. Quit making big deals out of nothing, and quit blindly following those who do because they happen to be in your party.
Agree KAYBEE; and it was before Nov. 6th, so you can add that to the list!
Wow, another expert on health care for women. Read up on the many benefits of the birth control pill, bozo. Funny, Q22 wants us all to help pay to prevent something natural from happening; his impotence. I say let him foot the bill, we don't need little queues populating the gene pool on our dime.
____________________________________________
Good morning T-REX,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,Good post. Well said/enough said.
Jindal: GOP has been “stupid” on birth control
The GOP have been stupid over a lot of issues.
David Walker - those guys do not have money - if they did they would not be here posting every two minutes. They like the fact that they are hidden behind a keyboard and that they can say whatever the heck they want. Really not worth your time. However, I love your posts!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/13/hagel-leading-contender-for-defense-secretary-rice-could-go-to-white-house/
But, but I thought the two Drama Queens Senators McCain and Graham plus the media whores over @ Faux News wanted John Kerry!! LOL, an unmamed source??? Faux news is full of horse manure. Every one knows they swift boarded Kerry. All of you right wingers are a bunch of evil a** obstrustionists and hypocrits.
Alan in NJ,
Under President Obama the National Debt increased from 80% of GDP to 100% of GDP while in 2009 dollars the increase was/is 63%.
Liberal math debunked.
The debt data has been collected from Treasury Direct website and adjusted for inflation using the Bureau of Labor Statistics CPI data. For the future debt, I used the debt projection for 2016 from President Obama’s 2013 budget (Historical Tables, Table 7.1 – Federal Debt at the End of the Year).
For the presidents where I had daily debt data (from 1993 – present), I used “inauguration-to-inauguration” debt numbers.
When I didn’t have those (for Ronald Reagan & George H W Bush) I used the yearly debt numbers including the fiscal year for which they were responsible. So for Reagan I used October 1981-October 1989 and for HW Bush I used October 1989 to Jan 20, 1993 (when daily data became available).
With all this information, I came up w/ the following data points (adjusted for inflation)
Ronald Reagan debt
from $2.29 trillion to $4.82 trillion
$2.53 trillion increase over 8 years
$316 billion / year
George H W Bush debt
from $4.82 trillion to $6.54 trillion
$1.72 trillion increase over 4 years
$430 billion / year
Bill Clinton debt
from $6.54 trillion to $7.38 trillion
$0.84 trillion increase over 8 years
$105 billion / year
George W Bush debt
from $7.38 trillion to $11.17 trillion
$3.79 trillion increase over 8 years
$474 billion / year
Barack Obama (measured) debt
from $11.17 trillion to $15.57 trillion (March 21)
$4.40 trillion increase over 3 years, 2 months
$1,390 billion / year
Barack Obama (future projection) debt
from $15.57 trillion to $20.39 trillion
$4.7 trillion increase over 4 years, 10 months
$995 billion / year
Although I give credit to those posts about Rice and the "fiscal cliff", I'd like to address the Jindal resetting of the GOP. Not an easy task. The Republicans have had a problem with ANY dissent! True, if you hold the top spot, within that no-compromise party, you have a little wiggle room on issues. But, until you hold that top spot, you'd better tow the line and/or keep your mouth shut!
Alan,
Yes, I'd say +25% under Obama is better than +200% under Reagan Bush. (Debt to GDP)
Who is the budget wrecker?
David Walker - the man who knows so litle about so much
You sir are the one who mentions me without any first comment from me. So please do ignore me. You are nothing but a bag of wind. Anyone who doesn't agree with your assinine logic is just stupid, right? Good luck with your new business adventure. One comment from me, drop the bag of wind rhetoric, any smart business person will spot your stupidity right off the bat and you will find it tough to grow your businesss with nothing but your butt kisser buddies on first read.
tad lotsanumbers, humorously writes:
Tad, if the business is generating an AGI in excess of $200,000, I am hard-pressed to understand how the business would tank. Further, given the past experience with the tax rate for that bracket at 39.6%, tanking hardly seems likely.
Dennis, it's a shame Obama doesn't have enough time to take vacations and play gol- oh wait...
The next "Greece" will only come about if Austerities are applied here - as they were in Europe - to devastating affect.
If the 0.01% or (even yourself) care so much about the deficit - let them agree to pay a little more in taxes to go in the Treasury.
If House GOP cares about the deficit - they should extend the middle class tax cut pronto. That will take care of at least half the fiscal "cliff" worries.
If they don't do it soon, they are SHEISTERS/PARIAHS.
Birth control, on the other hand is to prevent something natural from happening due to a voluntary action. It is akin to a drug that allows you to binge drink without getting a hang-over.
Not completely correct. Birth control pills are used for other medical issues that women can have, such as a hormone imbalance (my xwife was prescribed birth control for this). I have no problem with viagra or birth control being covered if it's for a medical condition. But if it's just to have free safe sex, or to just get it up, then that's your problem, not mine.
I'm sure the LITTLE BOYS - McCain and Lindsey - are gloating this morning. What they are too stupid to realize is they've made themselves the poster boys for whiny losers. Susan Rice has more class than either of them and more integrity. She did a noble thing by stepping out of contention to make it easier for the President to appoint a SoS.
But the Little Boys won't win. There is a new Kennedy more than ready to take Kerry's place in Mass. The "clever" thinking and hate filled nonsense spewed by McCain/Lindsey won't accomplish a thing - except make them more irrelevant than they already are.
Look for both to be replaced when the run again
Oskar,
Nothing debunked there. These are raw dollar numbers. Reagan-Bush I numbers are HUGE is real dollar terms, and more importantly debt as a function of GDP is the important number anyway--to incorporate the capacity of the economy as a whole to shoulder the debt burden.
Reagan-Bush I QUADRUPED the debt in dollar terms and DOUBLED the debt in GDP terms.
Under OBAMA, such debt has increased less than 1/3 or GDP, during a time when we've had the worst recession since the Great Depression.
There's no comparison, and you haven't debunked anything with your table of numbers. You've actually supported our side.
They all are by definition. Obama's problem is that he is the incumbent at the time the demographic bomb hits entitlements. Reagan may have got away with it because of a growing economy but I've always said Bush was a fiscal disaster and Obama's numbers have only been "not as bad" because of Bush.
Even today's Washington Post gets it.
You can blame what happened in the past as much as you want but it is the future drivers that count. Obama is President and ultimately the responsibility lies with him.
Liberals constantly blame the Bush tax cuts for our nations fiscal crisis, but they don't want to return to those rates. What gives? If the Bush tax cuts caused our fiscal crisis, then letting them all expire is the only way back toward fiscal sanity. Is it not? This whole argument about raising taxes on the top earners is but a drop in the bucket, and doesn't even bring in enough to consider it a solution. So why are liberals opposed to letting all the Bush tax cuts expire, when they insist that is what caused the fiscal crisis in the first place?
Two days in a row of very enjoyable pizzing and moaning from those self-assured, loudmouthed libs.....must be somebody's Christmas present to me. Thanks!
A Visit from St. Nicholas
'Twas the night before Christmas, when all thro' the house
Not a creature was stirring, Even Boehner was passed out.
The stockings were hung by the chimney with care,
In hopes that more tax cuts would be there;
The children were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of sugar plums danc'd in their heads,
Because the Republicans took away their food stamps and they went to bed hungry.
Salud
David, JH doesn't know what he's talking about (even when he actually puts some substance in his posts).
We business owners know that 2, or 3 or 4.6% difference in taxes doesn't mean squat in a business operation. If I could control my sales and profits within 25% of projections I'd be happy. You wouldn't even notice 4.6% in terms of business operations. Sure, at the end of the year, it would be nice to keep the extra money, but it isn't going to drive my business decisions, and I've been running my business for 8 years, right through the worst recession in my lifetime. The economy is WAY more important than taxes. Let's get the economy roaring and worry about deficits later. Money is cheap now, we should spend it.
SmBusOwnerinNY-
Nicely done debunking the master-bunker.
Was actually quite easy, wasn't it?
Have a great weekend, SmBus.
Salud
SmBusOwner
Have you ever heard me compain about the hike in taxes except to say that if you hike any hike all.
Rick,
I've said all of the Bush tax cuts should go. But the Clinton rates should be reinstated over a period of time to avoid the "cliff" nature of all reverting on one day. 20% a year for 5 years. That should give enough time for people to get used to them.
That's $500 Billion of the $1T deficit. $250B in spending cuts. Live with or grow out of the remaining $250B. Done. Everything's fine. On track for financial stability.
I guess that goes to you too JH. I think the "rich" could probably shoulder the increase right away, but to avoid the hit to the economy, the rest of the rates should creep up slowly. All of have to pay though. I don't agree that the Bush bottom 98% should be permanent either.
SBO,
When Republicans say it will hurt small business hiring, they forget that the tax hike is on gross profit and not on gross sales.
They also conveniently forget that the tax increase will not affect the first $200K/$250K of profit/income.
It's obvious what happened. Obama told Susan Rice "I need you to cover up the Benghazi fiasco until after the election, so go on all of the Sunday talk shows and say it was the video, not a planned attack by al Qaida - if you do that for me, I'll nominate you for Secretary of State if I'm re-elected."
When the truth started coming out, and it was discovered that she lied to the American people, she got 'thrown under the bus' by Obama, and now Obama will 'blame those racist Republicans for discriminating against a Black woman'.
How predictable.
Further on taxes on profits.....
Say you've got a $3M business (revenue/sales). You have $50K in profits over $250K. That extra 4.6% on $50K is a whopping $2300.
Here's a solution for you: Hire two people. The cost of their wages and benefits will create an expense (deduction) large enough for you to avoid ALL of your tax on that $50K, not just the $2300, the first 35%/$17,500 too!
ps, Dennis, it will HELP hiring because higher taxes make hiring a bigger expense to deduct. I have to go to lunch with a client right now, but I'll be back with more about that. Did you see some of my comments yesterday on higher taxes being a driver of hiring?
At last, Roy pokes his head out of his "rat" hole...
About time you put up or shut up Roy-Boy!
From yesterday;
I have asked you for an answer on this repeatedly, strange how you conveniently always have to get back to work... lol
ROY WILSON-336103
#1.129 - Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:10 PM CST
You can only hide for so long Roy... lol
The problem with all this deficit, debt and tax arguments is that it misses the fundamental problem we are faced with. Spending is going up faster than revenues. Until we get spending under control we will always be fighting about taxes, deficits and the national debt. Focus on the spending first - then devise a sane tax policy around it. Obama wants the taxes first and then a discussion on spending - which, of course means no real spending reform and probably, if history is any guide, result in increasing spending even more.
John Kerry would be a horrible choice for Secretary of State. Susan Rice would be better--She has "appeal"/Statesmanship. Unfortunate what happened during the Benghazi Massacre.
Kerry is a very non-social, sour grapes type person--he has no personality or salesmanship. There has to be likeability by Foreign Leaders.
President Obama needs someone for this important position to woo Leaders from other Countries. Hillary Clinton did a magnificent job.
Surely there is there is another excellent Candidate. Hopefully, this is not a payback choice.
Joe in Albany wrote:
And you know this how? According to her, it was her decision. Do you have some inside information or are you attempting to pass conjecture on your part off as fact? Personally, I have a lot more respect for her as a result of this whole situation than I have for McCain and his ilk. I think it is a shame that we will not have her services in the role for which she was eminently qualified and in which I believe she would have done an excellent job.
Completely agree. Still can't fathom why - even for legit medical reasons - it is completely free. No other pharmaceutical - including ones that directly save lives - are forced to be distributed free.
Yeah. I felt the same way about John Bolton - who did nothing as deceitful as Rice but was blocked from being UN Ambassador because of partisan Democrats.
Q22,
Actually spending is flat and the FY2013 deficit is expected to be about $900 Billion.
If we were at <4% unemployment the deficit would be near zero.
oskar-1391552 "With all this information, I came up w/ the following data points (adjusted for inflation)"
Why not use real dollars - it's easier to understand, since inflation adjusted figures change depending on what 'base year' you choose. Here are the increases in the National Debt under recent Presidents in REAL dollars;
Reagan (fiscal 1981-1988) - Increased Debt of $1.692 Trillion ($212 Billion/yr).
Bush 1 (fiscal 1989-1992) - Increased Debt of $1.401 Trillion ($350 Billion/yr).
Clinton (fiscal 1993-2000) - Increased Debt of $1.627 Trillion ($203 Billion/yr) - same as Reagan +-.
Bush 2 (fiscal 2001-2008) - Increased Debt of $4.357 Trillion ($545 Billion/yr).
Obama (fiscal 2009-2012) - Increased Debt of $5.849 Trillion (1,462 Billion/yr).
It's a mistake to try to allocate the first fiscal year of a new President to the previous President because it ignores the truth;
1 - New Presidents always make changes that affect their first year in office spending/taxes.
2 - In the case of Obama, he made dramatic increases in spending for fiscal 2009 that were not approved by Bush - In fact, the Democratic controlled Congress never even gave Bush a Budget to sign or veto, so Bush only approved 2009 spending at the same rate as in 2008 until Obama passed his $800 Billion 'stimulus' bill, which greatly increased spending for fiscal 2009 - Here are some links to prove this is true;
https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/washhigh/highlights2008/159056/president_signs_spending_bill.html
www.chieftain.com/news/local/bush-signs-budget/article_0d64329f-0c6f...
The average of debt during the 12 years of Reagan-Bush was 325 billions a year. During Obama 1,462 billions a year ( using Roy numbers), the total debt in 12 years Reagan- Bush was actually 3.9 trillions ,If you want to add 4.3 trillions during 8 years of Bush , that make 8.2 trillions of dollars during 18 years and Obama alone in less than 4 years increase aur debt for almost 5 trillions, that is even worst .. What is your point.
Say you've got a $3M business (revenue/sales). You have $50K in profits over $250K. That extra 4.6% on $50K is a whopping $2300.
Here's a solution for you: Hire two people. The cost of their wages and benefits will create an expense (deduction) large enough for you to avoid ALL of your tax on that $50K,
_________________________________
SmBus: Using that lefty liberal business management logic, doesn't it make sense for you to hire enough people so you have no profit and no taxes?? Barry would probably give you an award for doing all that job creating.
Moron.
Good bye Rice........
Her "spinning" the story cost her, happens to both party...
moving on, have a great weekend all:o)
Thanks to Bill Kristol, it’s now acceptable to call conservatives racketeers.
I guess that makes Rush Limbaugh the Vito Corleone, Roger Ailes the Michael Corleone, John Boehner the Sonny Corleone, and Grover Norquist the Fredo Corlenone.
Salud
Oskar,
The only worthy measurement, over time, is Debt as a ratio of GDP
Roy
I made the same comment several times. The self withdraw of Rice is just a game, she never was in the list of candidates for the Secretary of State.Putting her under oath could be the end of the charade.
Spending in 2010 - $3.456t
Spending in 2011 - $3.603t
Spending in 2012 - $3.795t
Where is the flatness???
Explain this. In 2009 we had a huge jump in spending - mostly with good reason - because of TARP, TARP2, the stimulus and the auto bailout. Fine - a one year bump kept us from falling even more. The question I have is that 2010, 2011, 2012 and beyond have essentially the same spending levels as 2009. We are spending TARP, TARP2, the stimulus and the auto bailout kind of money every single year of the Obama administration. Where is that money going to? Why can't we go back to spending levels near the pre-collapse year of 2008?
Roy Wilson-336103-
How much of this debt, put back on the books by President Obama, was the cost of the two wars, tax cuts, and Medicare Part D?
I respect your posts Roy, but why, for the love of God, won't you just come out and say it.
George W. Bush, kicked the debt can down to President Obama.
Is that too hard to say?
Salud
Dennis, Columbus, Ohio
they walk into this each and every time...I especially love the bragging about how the Bush tax cuts INCREASED the revenue...they brag about it until you ask exactly that: with all this extra $$$, how did Bush end up with the gigantic Bush mortgage+ gigantic Bush mortgage interest+ the 2 wars off the books+finishing off the SS fund+unfunded Medicare Part B????...that's when they disappear and the bragging ends...
and
How was it possible for Clinton to increase taxes on the top 1.2% AND end up as the only president in our modern history who had a balanced budged??? Reagan failed 8 years, Bush1 failed 4 years, Bush2 failed 8 years.
Q22,
The stimulus was spent primarily over 2 years 2009 & 2010 and in fact is not all spent as of today. Additionally there were increases spending for the census.
We had additional tax cuts in 2011 & 2012 plus additional spending war spending not to mention another large increase in the defense and Homeland Security budgets.
Overall the spending is about equal to the inflation rate and even less if the afore mentioned things are removed.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL "At last, Roy pokes his head out of his "rat" hole...About time you put up or shut up Roy-Boy!"
Do you deny making the remarks I posted (and many far worse)? That would result in a ban under most conduct codes.
And you talk about being 'civil'? I posed a question to Tyler and Sally on Newsvine about why so many people are banned for far less onerous comments, and I was advised that you were indeed banned from Newsvine, but that FR had no similar 'code of conduct', and since I don't recall seeing you on any Newsvine post, I presumed it was true. Do you REALLY consider your comments 'civil'?
While your 'hero' Obama won re-election, I wonder if the real losers are the American people - for example, here are the figures for the National Debt (according to the official 2013 Obama Budget projections);
National Debt at the end of fiscal 2008 = $9.986 Trillion.
National Debt today (4 years later) = $16.366 Trillion - a 64% increase.
National Debt projection by Obama in 2016 (End of Obama's second term) = $20.363 Trillion - a 104% increase, which is probably very optimistic - it will likely be closer to $25 Trillion.
If interest payments return to the rates under Clinton (4.4% average), the Interest alone on the National Debt will increase from the $200 Billion average per year under Bush to $900 Billion or more per year in 2016. That's an increase of nearly $7 Trillion over 10 years - for interest alone- mainly to foreigners like China. That makes the current 'negotiations' about a $Trillion in tax increases and spending cuts pale in comparison.
Of course, you are probably part of the 47% that pays little or no income taxes, so you don't really care, since 'someone else' will have to pay for that.
It's nice hearing from you though. Have a nice day.
The Bush tax cuts since 2001 have totaled roughly 3 trillion dollars, or 250 billion per year, and not the 500 billion as another post suggests. The combined expenditure for the two wars is approximately 120 billion per year. The cost of the Medicare prescription drug benefit has run 68 billion per year. Total it all up and you get 450 billion or there about. So end all of it and subtract it from our 1.2 trillion dollar annual deficit and you are still left with a massive 750 billion annual deficit. So where is the extra 750 billion coming from if everything is according to liberals the result of Bush tax cuts, two wars, and prescription drug benefits for seniors? It is just like one post suggests, spending increased massively in Obama's first year of 2009, TARP, TARP2, and the stimulus account for it, but why hasn't it ever come back down again?
SeekingSanity
There is a new Kennedy more than ready to take Kerry's place in Mass.
That line put a smile on my face. Thank you.
Brilliant. Sarah Fluke would have to go back to paying for her own protection. And thanks to Nancy Pelosi you couldn't even use an FSA to buy cntraception.
SmBusOwnerinNY:
Gotta reply. Years ago, when I opened my first business, it became standard practice at tax time for those who lived under the Walker roof to lay low. There was much pissing, moaning, and gnashing of teeth. Not only were the forms a pain in the neck, but when you had finally slogged through umpty-ump forms, the bottom line invariably said something like, "Now, write a check to Uncle Sam for lots of money."
Today, we still pay taxes, but that's how a government runs, as you know. No, I didn't do this by myself, but I still snivel when I write a check to Uncle Sam.
We live well. Very well. No, we don't eat filet mignon every day. As a matter of fact, I was raised by a depression-era Mother and dined on rather inexpensive fare. I still love broiled round steak, which is not to say, a filet isn't pretty darned good now and then.
I like to pretend I'm retired, but that's a joke. I work more now than I did when I worked. I work/play in the kitchen. I am after all, the Chief Domestic God. I am building a business, and I know it will succeed. There isn't a scintilla of uncertainty on that point.
Seems to me, the time these folks take bitching about government might be better spent trying to get to that 35% bracket, maybe soon to the 39.6% bracket. As you say, when you make more than you need, what's 4.6%?
Best to you and yours.
Are you sure you're right about your numbers Roy? Maybe you should run them past Rasmussen, "the most accurate pollster in the business."
Great comments today. I can't let one of the lesser impulses go without comment, however;
Now the Right has gone so extremist, so authoritarian, so anti-freedom that we're discussing forced sterilization of those we judge as being unworthy of children?
That's not just sad, it isn't just pathetic, it's frightening.
TomasGrande "Roy Wilson-336103-Obama (fiscal 2009-2012) - Increased Debt of $5.849 Trillion (1,462 Billion/yr). How much of this debt, put back on the books by President Obama, was the cost of the two wars, tax cuts, and Medicare Part D? I respect your posts Roy, but why, for the love of God, won't you just come out and say it. George W. Bush, kicked the debt can down to President Obama."
Yes, the Debt increased significantly under Bush, but those things you mentioned (the war costs, tax cuts, Medicare Part D) were included in Bush's Debt figures, but the average Debt has increased nearly 3 times as fast under Obama as under Bush, and the really big war costs (Iraq) are now over since that war ended under the treaty that Bush signed in his last year in office for troop withdrawals.
The total federal spending for Bush's last 4 years in office (fiscal 2005-2008) was $10.838 Trillion.
The total federal spending for Obama's first 4 years (fiscal 2009 - 2012) has been $14.373 Trillion. That's an increase in spending of $3.535 Trillion (32.6%).
Are you not the least bit concerned about the devastating Debt burden that we are giving to our children and grandchildren?
Nice attempt at distraction Roy-Boy, but NO dice...
First, how am I denying them when I copied and pasted what I SAID? I stand by everything I say whether you find it civil or not.
This has nothing to do with civility and everything to do with YOU making false accusations.
Like I said yesterday, if you're willing to LIE with impunity over something as petty as this, why in the world would anyone believe YOU & the numbers you pull out of your butt to bolster your bull@!$%#?
What does Roy do? Other than follow up with another *cough* assumption...lol
You have proof of this...? Yes?
Thank you again for conceding you are in fact a pathological liar...
Assuming you mean "complain". . . .
All the time, JH. All the time.
You mean, who knows so much more about everything than you'll ever know. (P.S. The word "the" has an "e" on the end. It's hard to believe that anyone as careless and lazy as you is successful at anything.)
ROY WILSON-336103
Roy, I will ask this one more time: PLEASE PLEASE be so nice and take out the Bush tax cuts mortgage (still not paid for ), the growing Bush tax cuts mortgage interest, Bush 2 unpaid wars, Bush unpaid Medicare part B, the depleted by Bush SS fund (yes, I know Clinton did it too), and tell me what actual spending can be attributed to Obama. Let's start there because otherwise your numbers mean sh*t.
Please do that for once or STFU...
none of those bills got zeroed out when Obama took over, did they? You sound so ignorant every time you keep copying and posting your propaganda.
and Roy, again, end of 2008 debt does not count because FY2008 ended in Oct of 2009 and is a combination of mostly Bush + some of Obama
and one more thing which is the most important of all:
While Bush inherited what Clinton left him, Obama inherited what Bush f*cked up and you know Bush f*cked up big because all Republicans say "Bush who?" But the problem is that the same Republicans who cry poverty today are the same Republicans that voted for everything Bush wanted including increased spending and increasing debt ceiling while Clinton had the Deficit Reduction Act of 1993 passed without a single Republican vote. NOT ONE!
Bayllie,
It's unbelievable that this needs to be said time and time and time again. These guys don't deal in FACTS. They prefer to live in their own little worlds and complain.
The truth is, they really don't care about deficits and the bigger picture. Their only motivation is personal--to amass as much money as possible now. Forget about tomorrow. . . .
Exito - You're welcome. It puts a smile on many faces!
John B, Des Moines, IA "Are you sure you're right about your numbers Roy? Maybe you should run them past Rasmussen, "the most accurate pollster in the business."...I can't let one of the lesser impulses go without comment, however"
Touche (smiling). And we now have a new 'most accurate pollster in the business' over the last 3 Presidential election cycles;
So how did the pollsters do?
Let's take a look at the 9 major pollsters that have reported final polls for President over the last three election cycles (2004, 2008 & 2012). The results are as follows (Source is Realclearpolitics.com);
1 – Pew Research – Average error = 0.73%
2 – IBD/TIPP – Average error = 0.90%
3 – ABC News – Average error = 1.13%
4 – CNN – Average error = 1.8%
5 – Rasmussen – Average error = 1.9%
6 – Marist/NBC, Reuters (tie) – Average error = 2.27%
8 – FOX News – Average error = 2.47%
9 – Gallup – Average error = 3.27%
The average error is the average 'miss' between their final poll spread and the actual result. Pew and IBD/TIPP also have the advantage of having the least average bias (defined as the average final poll average error favoring a political Party). The vast majority of pollsters (especially Marist/NBC, Reuters and FOX) had a distinct Democratic bias.
Seeking,
Is it true? Where did you hear it? Sure as hell would put a smile on my face!
Yes it's frightening that you believe this is acceptable. It's frightening that people can irresponsibly reproduce and expect society to pick up the tab. If we are paying the bills do you think we have any right to ask for a change in behavior? Let guess when you had children and were paying the bills you believed they had the right to do what they wanted. You didn't care that you were responsible for their actions.
Typical straw man argument. We can't infringe on the rights of the people we are paying for. If you accept the help of the state it MUST come with no conditions.
OK here's a solution. If you get pregnant, or cause a woman to become pregnant, while receiving welfare or food stamps, then you lose your benefits.
No sterilization, no contraception. Just consequences for your actions.
Hey Dennis #1.3, looks like Bonehead will hit the 19th hole, this alcoholic can care less !!!!!!!!!!!
Time to stop politics today. Tragedy has struck again.
http://gma.yahoo.com/breaking-conn-school-district-locked-down-shooting-report-151955384--abc-news-topstories.html
Feeling nauseous.
Prayers for the parents and their children.
Joseph P. Kennedy III, grandson of Robert Kennedy was elected to Congress to replace Barney Frank. So, actually, he wouldn't take over for Kerry unless he chose to vacate that seat. But, he will be in Congress so he'll have some pull. It's his first elected office.
A Stanford University and Harvard Law School graduate, Kennedy served in the Peace Corps -- an organization created by President Kennedy -- in the Dominican Republic before becoming a prosecutor on Cape Cod, home to the Hyannis Port seaside compound owned for generations by his family. He later moved to assistant Middlesex County district attorney in suburban Boston. From Bloomberg Business
So, a little off - he won't take Kerry's place but there is again a Kennedy in Washington.
Alan - we'll agree today. I am sitting at my desk with tears coming down my face. They say some of the 27 dead are indeed children. Who even thinks of doing such a horrendous thing? Prayers to the parents, children, teachers, police, emt's - all involved. This is a day they will never be able to erase from their minds.
Jack - sorry to get your hopes up. I thought he had run for a State post - which would have meant he could run for Kerry's - not a national one.
Alan - right now they are reporting that 18 of the dead are children. I can't even comprehend what everyone there is going through.
Roy,
Points for honesty my friend. I could continue quibbling over final polls vs all polls and the last 3 Presidential cycles vs some other time horizon, but that's all angels dancing on the head of a pin. You and I both know we aren't going to see eye to eye on much politically, but I have no issue sparring with you.
bayllie "ROY WILSON-336103 - Roy, I will ask this one more time: PLEASE PLEASE be so nice and take out the Bush tax cuts mortgage (still not paid for )"
If the Bush tax cuts did not stimulate the economy, and thus 'pay for themselves', then why did total federal Revenues increase by more than $1.8 Trillion after the Bush tax cuts, despite the lower tax RATES?
The mistake that liberals make is 'assuming' that lower tax rates do not stimulate economic growth, which in turn leads to more income, and thus more tax revenues. The record seems to indicate that the tax cuts brought in about $1.8 Trillion in additional tax revenues despite the lower tax RATES.
The economy (GDP) increased by a total of $18.8 Trillion under Bush (vs the level of activity in Clinton's last year - 2000). I think it's safe to assume that a significant part of that $18.8 Trillion of additional economic activity resulted from the Bush tax cuts giving consumers more money to spend (as well as more income to tax).
We are indeed Seeking Sanity today.
Sick to my stomach right now
Hey Alan, that's a bad joke !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Alan, I thank you for your thoughts. How sad for the victims, for the families and friends of those killed or wounded, and in fact for the entire nation. Words fail to express my sorrow.
I have two young children in school. I can't even begin to comprehend the grief these parents are feeling. All I want to do is see my kids right now. The thought that something could happen to them while in school makes me sick to my stomach.
My thoughts and prayers are with these kids and their families. :-(
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
I'm leaving now - just to let you know so you don't accuse me of 'hiding from you'.
Bye, and have a nice day.
Sorry. Completely unintended in the circumstances.
@John and Grimey, I echo your sentiments. My heart goes out to the parents and I dread what they are going through right now.
Does Feisty ever shut up? The country is hurting today with a cowardly shooting of school children during the holiday season. So why don't you shut down the politics for a bit and think about something more important than what happens to a very select few people in DC. It's an overwhelmingly sad day to be an American.
Dennis, Q22, & others arguing about who is/was the biggest spenders, and who was/is responsible for the debt. That is all moot, in that it does nothing but play the blame game. Reagan/Bush 1 was in the 80s and early 90s, Bush was in 2001-2009, we had Clinton in between. We can go all the way back to LBJ, remember his "guns and butter" BS? Also remember we had several recessions in the past 30 or so years and every administration handled it in different ways, (tax cuts, more spending, etc.,). Let's move on to what lies ahead.
Harping on who did what when and why doesn't solve the problem. It appears that President Obama was get the tax raises he wants on those making $200/250K, with no promise of spending reductions until next year. The increase will generate around $86 billion a year/$860 billion over 10 yrs, which is what Obama wanted originally, but now Obama has said $1.6 trillion (later lowered to $1.4 trillion) in tax cuts. That means these taxes have to also go up: Estate tax (death tax), dividends, & capital gains, and corporate taxes. Don't hear any talk about these taxes, only about tax rates on the so called "wealthy". BTW, President Obama admits it is not about raising revenue that will lower the deficit or National Debt and is only about paying a "FAIR SHARE".
Personally I believe we should go over the cliff, let ALL tax rates go back to 2000 rates, & let the payroll tax reductions expire. Let the new Congress work it out next year and if they want to pass new tax cuts on all but the "wealthy" so be it. Let's make 2013 the start of a new era of cooperation that benefit all and let's get party politics out of it.
A rhetorical question does not evidence make, and you've presented no evidence. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary, however;
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/07/mcconnell_no_evidence_whatsoev.html
Hey Alan, just got the News, sorry about that - Very sad, have a nice day !!!!!!!!!!!
Alan - I don't think there is any sanity to be found. Every time this happens I hope we find a way to stop the next one - just doens't happen. My thoughts are for all of those involved. They will never get what they have seen out of their minds - the children, parents, teachers and emergency personnel. I don't know how you get through something like this. I'm at a total loss.
Sarge,
Why oh why are you soooo offended that anyone has a discussion about what happened in the past ?
Actually it is important to understand history or we are doomed to repeat it or didn’t you learn that in your years in the military ?
IMO Saint Reagan cause more economic damage to our country than any other modern President.
Roy Wilson-
Of course I am, Roy.
But I gather I am close to your age, and we both know there was a time in this country, when people like you and me, got an education, worked hard, raised a family, and saved for retirement.
Greed and corruption has taken over America.
And there are many media outlets who are working 24-7 to keep the gravy train going.
The whole thing stinks.
I believe one of the answers toward eleminating our debt problem is Jobs.
Jobs Jobs Jobs.
Get unemployment under 4%.
Give all poor and middle class the Bush tax cuts.
But pardon me, if I am not too sympethetic about the wealthy.
Tax the bastards, I say.
I feel they took our tax dollars (yes it was legislated) and kept it, and didn't create any jobs with it.
I feel they didn't keep their end of the bargan.
And we the People, are chumps for falling for that tax-cut BS yet again.
Salud
David Walker
Doesn't seem to prevent you from doing the same, why would you suspect it would for anyone else?
My Heart goes out to the Children and Families, another sad day for America !!!
Rice should continue be strong and firm. She was only following orders. If she need to testified during her hearing she should just for her integrity. Mrs. Clinton said the Buck stop with her and Obama said the buck stop with him, But they both allow Ms. rice to carry the blame and still she carrying someone else Burden. Well I prefer Ms. Rice as secretary than the traitor Kerry.
Too many issues were coming up that she did not want to deal with. For instance; watch this short interview with her sister-in-law. Watch the whole interview, 2 minutes long:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh7UgAprdpM
Dennis - Learning from the past is important but in this case both sides are beating it to death, neither of you are going to change anyone's mind, so move on. I am not offended about discussions but everyone can manipulate numbers to their own use. You and the others have made your point. You know what they say about opinions, so I won't repeat it.
BTW, I was hoping you would comment on my 3d paragraph above, then we can maybe have a discussion. But it appears you are more interested in blaming President Reagan, and Bush 1 and 2.
The "traitor Kerry"? Really? Tell me something. Have you served in a war? Video games and paintball don't count, idiot.
John B - Long time since I seen any of your posts. One question my friend, since most Democrats believe the Bush tax cuts did not do anything for the economy (I believe they would have if spending had been controlled), why keep them now for those making less than $200/250K, why not let them expire for everyone? Let's go back to the tax rates that was in effect in 2000. Actually, IMO that is exactly what President Obama really wants anyway.
"W" throw gas on Reagan's fire, the rest is History !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"W" throw gas on Reagan's fire, the rest is History !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I still say, let everything go.
It is far past time we actually address the deficit and begin to get spending under control.
The effect to the economy would be slight (a 4% reduction in GDP and 1% increase in unemployement) which would probably only last 6 months.
The effect to the deficit is great. The combined effects would cut the deficit in half. Also, it would put us on the path to making rational decisions about spending and taxes.
BTW: don't forget that we get another round of fiscal idiocy from Washington in less than 2 months when the debt ceiling is hit, again.
He said, "and he’ll remember that down that road" of obama.
Just like he has bought his votes with bail-outs and unemployeement.
4 more years of Blank Checks.
He said, "and he’ll remember that down that road" of obama.
Just like he has bought his votes with bail-outs and unemployment.
4 more years of Blank Checks.
Let's say you are selling a product and sales has been depressed. You decide to cut the price by 20% and, as a result, sales jump 50%. Only a complete dope would sit around and calculate how much you would have made if you had made all those sales with the old price and think you lost money.
The Bush tax cuts helped spur the country out of the Clinton recession (Yes, we were in recession when Bush entered office). They also got us past the hit the country took after 9/11. if you look at deficits you will see that they were getting smaller every year until the financial collapse in late 2008. But all you are doing is looking at what tax revenue you would have had assuming you would have had an identical growth rate without the tax cuts. It's a stupid way to look at economics.
see Dennis, Columbus, Ohio, it didn't take long to catch another one: Roy Wilson.
Roy, the spike in revenue was temporary. Tax cuts are a temporary measure to jump start economy and tax cuts are not to be used permanently and especially in the time of war.
So Roy, let's pretend that the increase in revenue was significant enough to use it as proof that Bush tax cuts are GOOD for the country. Tell me, with all this extra $$$, how the hell did Bush managed to rack up all this debt? With a balanced budget inherited from Clinton, we should have been rolling in $$$ in 2008.
When a republican gains the White House and wants to get an appointment through the Senate, we dems will not forget the character assassination which Rice was subjected to by the repubs.
Also, the character assassination which the old white republican men subjected the qualified African-American lady to will not be forgotten at election time
Sarge,
Sorry, I didn’t get to your last paragraph. It sounds too good for politicians to ever agree with.
And what say you about the Debt Ceiling which Republicans are saying they will use for additional spending cuts. Grover Norquest says to only approve it to cover one month at a time.
Q22
so let's assume your scenario: why then did the debt and unemployment increase from 1/2001 to 1/2009??????????? Magic?
You think we have forgotten Robert Bork, John Bolton, Priscilla Owen, Charles W. Pickering, Carolyn Kuhl, David W. McKeague, Henry Saad, Richard Allen Griffin, William H. Pryor, William Gerry Myers III and Janice Rogers Brown?
the majority of job loss was in 2009 under Obama.
Heehee, just had to point that out :)
Seriously, the job loss came at the end of 2008 and into 2009. It was NOT caused by tax policy - nor, for that matter, was the financial meltdown. You are being a dork Bayllie.
Dennis - I believe in what President Obama said when he was a Senator and voted against raising the debt ceiling. It was a lack of leadership and was spending our children and grand children's future. (or words to the effect). I do not believe any President should be able to raise the debt ceiling without approval of Congress. It appears using the debt ceiling to get additional cuts is fair game, remember everything should be on the table. As far as Grover, I really don't care what he or his organization says, he hasn't been elected to anything.
I have said many times, I want spending cuts, revision of tax codes and audits of ALL government agencies, Departments and programs, then we can discuss raising taxes. I will ask you the same question I asked John B., if the Bush tax cuts did not help the economy then why keep them now, let's just go back to the rates of 2000 for everyone?
Q22
so you are saying that the massive job losses that started in 2008 and continued on (over 2 million jobs lost between Jan-March of 2009) had nothing to do with the financial meltdown, credit crisis and global recession of 2008?
It happened only BECAUSE Obama was elected??????
That's what you are saying?
but to go back tothe original question, forget Obama. Why was Bush and Bush tax cuts such a massive failure if Bush tax cuts are great?
TO: Close the Fed who wrote:
WTF are you talking about?
Don't even pretend to think you can tell me who to blame and/or what to say!
We wouldn't be where we are today had it not been for sick minded, war mongering Republicans who do nothing all day but try to figure out how to get "free money" from the government they claim to dispise.
I'll tell you why The GOP ain't making too much noise over Benghazi: Because it was Republicans who were the ones who refused to provide the additional security.
Before I even hear a word about Benghazi, I want to hear Republicans explain why it was "necessary" to kill all those Iraqis after Republicans Lied us into War with Iraq.
Bayllie - If the Bush tax cuts were such a massive failure, why does Obama and the Democrats want to keep them and make them permanent for those making less than $200/250K? Failures should not be continued, let's just let them expire.
You have a knack for reading only half a post. I was clearly being jokey in the first part. The second part - the part you ignored - was this: Seriously, the job loss came at the end of 2008 and into 2009. It was NOT caused by tax policy - nor, for that matter, was the financial meltdown.
Get that? Tax policy played zero role in the meltdown. ZERO. trying to equate tax policy with the financial meltdown is idiotic.
Sarge,
Giving that power to the President was McConnell's idea and it is not unlimited, a 2/3 majority of Congress can override his decision for any reason.
Members of congress from both Parties have made similar statements over the years but only when there are enough votes to pass the bill. It has never been voted down for one very good reason … it puts the full faith and credit of our nation at risk.
It is not needed, has never been needed and no other Sovereign Nation has such a stupid law.
If you are against spending then quit passing spending bills that will force us to increase the Debt Ceiling or attach the increase to the spending bill so the issue can be addressed on the front end not after the money is approved and spent.
Jack anyone that goes against their fellow troop is a traitor. He did just that in the seventies. And as soon as I turn 18 I sign up for the draft I was eager to go to Vietnam and defend my country. My family are in the military.
He spoke against the WAR, and the compromising situations young people are put into during war, you idiot!
I spoke against the war when I returned from Viet Nam, and I still speak out against the wars we're involved in. And I will never stop. Don't you understand that the true traitors are the politicians who lie and put young Americans' lives in danger by sending them off to war? Don't you understand anything at all? It's people like you who guarantee that there will be "cannon fodder" for all the wars to come.
He falsely accused his fellow troops of atrocities. That's quite a bit more than protesting the war. If he had just spoken out against policies or justifications for the war then no big deal. Once you libel the men doing the fighting then you cross a line.
gregorio057:
Jack was dead right. First bucko, if you were really in the service you took an oath. You swore to uphold the Constitution, you know, the one that includes the First Amendment. What John Kerry, Jack, and I are doing when we come out against the calamity/catastrophe in Viet Nam is to support our fellow troops. It is unthinking people like you who wish to expose troops to death unnecessarily. We condemn the slaughter of our fellow troops. You mindlessly support it.
You didn't defend your country by any stretch of the imagination if you served in Viet Nam or any subsequent conflict. The Gulf of Tonkin incident that led to the deaths of more than 58,000 American troops and more than a million Viet Namese NEVER happened. Virtually every alleged provocation that was used as an American pretext/pretense to invade foreign nations was contrived.
Q22:
Anyone who has served in a combat zone knows there are countless atrocities. Surely you don't believe that the scapegoat William Calley and his squad were the only G.I.'s guilty of atrocities, do you? Kerry has nothing for which to apologize.
Q22:
I saw more atrocities than I care to remember. There are all kinds of people in the military, just as there are in life. There are those who loved to kill--and felt no remorse about it. They're in a group all their own. Then there are those who act in the wrong way in the "compromising situations" I mentioned above; typically those people are scarred forever by what they did--or perhaps failed to stop. And then there is the majority, who usually acted honorably.
Kerry way talking about these very things and condemning the people who put us in that situation.
You should keep mum when you have no idea what you're talking about.
Dave--you're right, but you're kinder than me. That guy didn't serve in Viet Nam.
Two reasons;
--A generation of Conservative dominance on the economic front have left the middle class too weak to endure a tax hike as well.
--It would restore some of the progressivity to the income tax, something which Republicans have been on a decades-long quest to eliminate.
Dennis - It would be unlimited because Congress could never muster a 2/3 majority to over ride. The Democratic controlled Senate could write a bill to give the President control of the National Debt, but until they do, with House concurrence, it should be addressed and not just taken as an obstacle.
As for you blaming Congress for passing spending bills, remember it takes the President's signature to sign them into law prior to one penny being spent. Spending more now is not solving the problem of the deficit or the National Debt. Look at the President's Budget requests, they project annual revenues and spending which are never balanced. Congress should enact the Budget and then, if revenues do cover the spending, they should either made spending cuts or borrow the money at that time.
Sarge,
[The Democratic controlled Senate could write a bill to give the President control of the National Debt]
McConnell brought up the bill thinking that Reid would never bring it up for a vote because it wouldn’t get enough votes.
However Reid agreed to bring it to the floor for an up or down vote. At that point McConnell was forced to filibuster his own bill. McConnell looked foolish.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/debt-ceiling-mitch-mcconnell_n_2251515.html
So you agree that if Congress wants to pass a spending bill that would cause the US to exceed its debt ceiling, they should include the debt increase as part of the bill.
John B. Thanks for the rely but my response is still the same, if they were good enough under Clinton then why not now since it was the Democrats that were responsible for making them TEMPORARY in the first place.
She sounds like the kind of monster that Obama (or Romney for that matter) would pick for that position:
Rice abandons bid for secretary of state nomination
By Bill Van Auken
15 December 2012
...While often touted as the first African-American woman to serve as US ambassador to the UN, in reality Rice’s role was in direct continuity with figures such as John Bolton and John Negroponte, appointed by the George W. Bush administration with the aim of bullying other nations into acquiescing to US demands.
Other questions were raised about Rice’s ties with a number of despotic rulers in Africa charged with human rights abuses and war crimes. These were forged when she held the post of assistant secretary of state for African affairs and served on the National Security Council under Clinton.
She was accused of botching the mediation of a 1998 peace settlement between Ethiopia and Eritrea because of her open alignment with the Ethiopian regime of the late Meles Zenawi, resulting in the resumption of war, costing some 70,000 lives. Last September, Rice traveled to Addis Ababa to give a lengthy and effusive eulogy at the funeral of Meles, whose regime was infamous for torture, illegal detentions and the massacre of unarmed demonstrators.
Similarly, she gave her unstinting support to the regimes of Paul Kagame in Rwanda, Yoweri Museveni in Uganda, dismissing their human rights abuses as well as their bloody interventions in the wars in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, whose victims number in the millions.
Rice was among the closest advisers to Obama, dating back to when he was a US senator, and was one of the first prominent members of the Democratic Party foreign policy establishment to join his 2008 presidential campaign. The affinity between the two gave the lie to Obama’s pretense then of representing some kind of antiwar alternative to the Bush administration.
In the years before Obama’s election, Rice was part of the Center for a New American Security (CNAS) a right-wing Democratic think tank that advocated the continued occupation of Iraq, a military “surge” in Afghanistan and a more aggressive military posture toward China. She publicly supported the US war of aggression against Iraq as well as the “weapons of mass destruction” pretext provided by Bush.
Within the Obama administration, she became one of the leading advocates for imperialist intervention in Libya and Syria on the pretext of pursuing “humanitarian” and “democratic” aims.
Rice was also identified as one of the strongest supporters of Israel’s Zionist regime, denouncing any action at the UN in defense of the Palestinians as “anti-Israeli crap.” Abraham Foxman, director of the Anti-Defamation League, told The Forward that he viewed Rice as a “gladiator” in fighting for Israeli interests.
There is growing speculation that Obama will now name John Kerry, senator from Massachusetts and former Democratic presidential candidate, to succeed Hillary Clinton at the State Department.
In his statement, Obama said that Rice would “continue to serve as our ambassador at the United Nations and a key member of my cabinet and national security team.” According to media reports, Rice is being considered for the post of national security advisor in Obama’s second term.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/dec2012/rice-d15.shtml
Q22 "The majority of job loss was in 2009 under Obama....Heehee, just had to point that out :)"
That's true. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there was a net loss of 3,603,000 jobs in Bush's last year (2008), and a net loss of 5,050,000 jobs in Obama's first year (2009). In fact, there are still fewer people working today then in Bush's last full month in office (December 2008).
Of course we can argue about whether the meltdown was because of something that Bush did, or whether it was because the Democrat controlled Congress failed in its oversight responsibility over Wall Street and the GSEs (Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac), thanks to Barney Frank and Chris Dodd ignoring Bush's repeated calls to reform their loose lending practices.
I find it interesting that the liberals 'Blame Bush' because he happened to be President when the meltdown started, but they don't hold Obama responsible because he's been President over the most lethargic 'recovery' in recent history. Double standard, anyone?
Roy, don't make us think at your low level............ Research the "Dream Act of 2003" passed by Republican Congress, as the original, first government backed "0% Down Payment" loan program, soon followed by a barrage of your so called "wall street" investors own programs to compete with the Federal's. You certainly live in a unreal world of rhetoric, and little substance. If a person can't afford a down payment, how can they improve their property or pay their mortgage?
“The people who hold these supposedly august positions are in fact no better than criminal enforcers in organized crime families.”
Freedom Rider: Susan Rice and American Evil
by BAR editor and senior columnist Margaret Kimberley
Some African Americans associate racial progress with Black people achieving “the right to perform the evil acts which were once the reserve of whites.” The ascension of Black secretaries of state marks “the first time that black Americans began to look the other way and excuse their government’s inhumanity.”
Why does it matter if Susan Rice serves as secretary of state? That is a trick question, because in fact, it doesn’t matter at all. American foreign policy will be unchanged regardless of who the next secretary may be. The full force of imperialism will be brought to bear against the people of the world under the Obama administration. The democratic president has made real the goals of the neo-con ,Project for a New American Century a 21st century version of Manifest Destiny, the belief that the United States should rule the world and do so with a vengeance.
Rice’s nomination is a non-issue but is treated as an important one for many black people because of the words of right wing racists. The sight of the embittered sore loser John McCain calling Rice “unqualified” and “not very smart” reminds black people of the slights they are personally subjected to in their lives every day. It is especially galling for the insult to come from McCain, the quintessential entitlement baby. He was admitted to the U.S. Naval Academy because his father and grandfather were admirals. The legacy leg up didn’t help much because the mediocre young McCain still graduated at the bottom of his class. McCain’s insistence that the obviously sub-par Sarah Palin was a qualified vice presidential candidate makes the racist slaps at Rice all the more offensive.
The yearning to see a black face in one of the highest and most rarified places is a very deep one and not to be easily dismissed, but it is crucial to note that Rice is no different from John McCain in her beliefs of how the United States should conduct itself in the world. The facts against Rice and her predecessors are obscured by a corporate media which hides all the atrocities committed by the United States government, making the Rice story appear like nothing more than that of a high achieving black woman being slandered by evil racists…
http://blackagendareport.com/content/freedom-rider-susan-rice-and-american-evil
“ Bear Witness” Old Quaker tradition (and no I’m not, far from it) Walk beside two stone faced people in uniform up a front walk to deliver bad news to parents or a young widow or set and read letters from home to a recently blinded young man or women and suddenly the big mouth that mumbles platitudes about honoring their service and in the next breath says that he hopes the country they fought for fails becomes irrelevant.
Put up your 100 dollars and take a 9 or 10 year old child shopping for Christmas. Watch him carefully spend his money on a blanket, warm coat, and dolls for his sisters or something for a Mother that is barely older than he is. Witness that Mothers gratitude when she knows that a child is willing to spend the nicest thing that anyone has ever done for him in this manner and suddenly all the people that say that she should own her mistakes and these folks should pull themselves up by their bootstraps become irrelevant.
Help out at a Health clinic, Shelter, Habitat for Humanity, or show up for work in the cold dark morning and find 22 people waiting at 6;30 for the possibility that you can give them one of the 2 jobs that you have available and suddenly the folks that are telling you that these people deserve to live this way or that nobody wants to give up their benefits becomes irrelevant.
“Bear Witness” ( and some of you do) and then you will know why I have no use for your charlatans, false prophets and Nabobs of Negativity that are misusing their influence in blind pursuit of ratings and power with absolutely no intention of doing a d@mn thing to help unless it is in their own best interest. They are simply irrelevant to the discussion.
“Bear Witness” ( many more of you do) and some of you will come to realize that the forces that you are fighting to try and make a difference have become deeply entrenched in our society and the fight is going to be long and hard . Gather courage from the folks that you are trying to help(because that is the only thing that they can afford) and take what you can every time you can in the sure and certain knowledge that your cause is just but you aren’t going to win the fight overnight.
IR---thank you for this eloquent reminder of why we are fighting the fights that we do and how important it is to keep up the fight and bear witness.
Well said as usual IR.
The fact that one party in particular has to demonize those U.S. citizens who lack the ability to fight back their accusations and need our support the most because they are too busy dealing with the sad reality our wonderful government/corporations have created for them should tell you what kind of people support said party. They post on here daily and are sad excuses for our species and U.S. citizens.
It's a little too easy to pick on those who lack the ability to fight back but maybe that's why Joe from Albany and his ilk like to take it out on them. Easy prey for simple minds.
IR:
To "bear witness", one must listen and observe. Too many are deaf and blind - They are called Republicans.
Thank you, IR, for beautifully reminding us what this season is all about.
@ IR; I'm right there with you, my friend; I bought toys for a couple of toy drives this year, I have a $20.00/month deduction going directly to United Way, I give my bonus points from credit card purchases to Habitat for Humanity, and I've made substantial donations to Team Rubicon and other groups four times in the last two years for assorted disasters- including the tornado and fire disasters in Red States- my liberal leanings notwithstanding. They were still Americans in need. Whether or not they'd lift a finger to save me or mine in similar circumstances doesn't matter. My ethics say it's crucial to help- and even if they hate me for it, they can't learn better if they don't make it.
...a season to be jolly...
U R right - IR and kaybeetoys
We the Progressives have every reason to be jolly. Pres. O is re-elected, Democrats have made gains in both the Hosue and the Senate, even with all the money from the Koch Bros/Adelson.
2013 will be even better.
But don't forget the victims of Sandy. Volunteer our time, donate our money to help whatever way you can.
Thank you Friends and Neighbors. It simply amazes me that in this day and age we are in the position of having to remind those who have so much of their responsibility to those that ask so little.
Well said IR..
IR:
Thoughful comment.
In a few short paragraphs you've identified those that can't see what others have given them. While they rant and complain about the "takers"....the "me" folks who have gotten as much if not more don't seem to be able to see or comprehend it.
Thank you for bringing up the point that everyone, particularly those who are blessed with abundance, have received much more than they have given. Abundance does not simply mean dollars.
@Kaybe, you said this season? I say this society!!! It cannot just be this season, it must be year round, don't you think?
Thank you IR!!!
Pigotry,
Rice so called "voluntarily withdrew" is bs as Obama's bus just keeps rolling over expendable bots..
Her nomination fight in the Senate could caused this Prez to be asked to testify about his role in Benghazi. He wisely decided not follow through on his challenge to McCain and Graham to come after him instead of Rice.
Having to invoking Executive Privilege would have been too revealing and embarrassing.
What a sissy putz..........
IR - beautifully said and well worth reading over and over - not just now but throughout the year.
Tad - go away!
Tad-401841
I think you need a bigger tinfoil hat. The one you're wearing now is too tight. It's cutting off the oxygen to your brain.
David, you resemble the GOP in your listening skills, use a mirror and you will see the same.
have a great weekend
Houston, was that the best reply you had my comment? Pretty sad but not surprising from a clueless non substantive Obama voter.
Tad - you are the most clueless and non substantive person on this site!
Would someone tell Bonehead that Halloween is over and get that silly rubber off his head !!!
Dan Austin, Tx
What party is that? The one that gave all of those people the tax breaks that allow them to pay zero Fed income tax? That party? Making sure they don't have to py any Fed income taxes has created a "sad reality" for them?
IR, well said.
As a young person, my son had the opportunity to serve in our local community by assisting at an overnight shelter for the homeless. Similar to the kind of situation that Will Smith depicted in his 2006 movie "The Pursuit of Happyness," many people who are homeless are working, just unable to climb out of poverty. After doing that for a few times, my son NEVER complained about a lack of having anything.
While we are not at all near the 2%, we are just above median income. We get by, watching what we spend and giving our time as well as what we can in money.
If more people gave their time and talents to helping our nation, they would not be so worried about what little treasure the government collects and spends.
...because the GOP was more interested in scoring political points than learning the actual facts about what went on in Benghazi. They tried to put the cart before the horse.
It's like I keep saying...keep your eye on the ball...first learn what the facts are about the incident in Benghazi and then you will have the standing necessary to question why Susan Rice said what she did.
It is a very sad thing that Ambassador Rice was brutalized. Her more than two decades of public service are forgotten in the groundless and insane ravings of McCain, Graham, and the Republican Party in general.
However, Ambassador Rice will find her experience warmly welcomed in other venues. Beyond that, she has served as yet another bright light shining on the excesses of the right wing. The voters of this nation AND Ms. Rice will exact a very high price on the G.O.P. in 2014.
Thank you for your service now, and in the future, Ms. Rice.
The Rice Affair as with the 2010 Mid-terms will prove to be just another Pyrrhic Victory in recent GOP history books.
I still think the republicans have Susan Rice confused with Condaleza(sic) Rice
@Da Noid: "... than learning the actual facts about what went on in Benghazi."
Uh, does anyone actually know the true story? People keep saying they need to "know the facts", as if they have any clue themselves as to what the facts actually are.
Well, I don't know if it was your intent to agree with me, but thank you for agreeing with me.
Speaking of our, ummm, "brethren" in the (let's see if I can say this with a straight face) "news media"......
I was randomly pushing buttons on the car radio this morning in an attempt to avoid listening to Mariah Carey's "All I Want for Christmas is You" for the 957th time and accidentally came across one of those ding-dongs on a right-wing radio talk show, and you'll all be happy to know that they've left Susan Rice in the dust and are already moving on to how John Kerry will be an even worse choice for Secretary of State. Apparently it all hedges on his "pomposity" and "rigidness" and "can you even imagine this guy representing America around the world? He'll make Hillary Clinton look tame by comparison!" Aha! John Kerry is a vast left-wing conspiracy to insure Clinton wins in 2016!
After that the guy moved on to how he'd also be taking calls about all how the current raging controversy (which I hadn't even heard of) that Redskins QB Robert Griffin III isn't "black enough" - because he has a white wife and may have voted Republican - is all just the latest example of raging latent racism among liberals and THIS is why the Republican party needs to reach out to the black community better. Hey, nothing shows how much you really do relate to the middle class and poor like embracing a guy who's making almost $400,000 in just his first year on the job and is good for over $21 million over the next four, right?
By the time he got to the third story - something about a guy who gave hot dogs to the union protesters in Detroit - I'd decided that I've apparently totally misunderstood right-wing talk radio all this time. I'm ashamed to say that I've always thought they were actually serious.....and here it turns out they're all just Stephen Colbert wannabes. I feel really stupid now for not getting that this is all just a giant put-on. Silly me - once you get the joke, though, they're actually pretty funny.
Though I'm still probably not nearly as stupid as all the "ditto-heads" out there who still, sadly, hang on every word as if it was the sermon on the mount.....
Anyway, rest easy, Susan Rice - you're already yesterday's news. And the right wing's already lined up and ready to defend you now!
David Walker, Susan Rice was brutalized by Obama and Hillary because they didn't have the stones to spout their lies as she did for them on 5 major news channels. Benghazi isn't a topic Obama wants to discuss in a Senate confirmation hearing. Sure she "voluntarily withdrew" and pigs can fly too.
Tad: Kool-ade flavor today is "repeat of same old lime"
Tad - you're beyond delusional. A true Republican! Not a brain in that head, is there?
1. Involved in two embassy coverups
2. Investments in Iran
I'm not really sure how you all think she was qualified for SoS.
Alex - you have no proof of either - just your usual delusional lies! She was and is well qualified for SoS but - she'll remain ambassador until the right post opens up in the future.
Hey Alex xxxxxxxx ?, get that info from that dirtbag Sean Hannity !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Da Noid
WTF are you talking about??? The GOP have been bitching about the Benghazi situation from the beginning. Everything from whether there was enough security to whether aid could or should have been sent. It's the dems who won't talk about anything other than Susan Rice. For Christ's sake, it been months and we STILL don't even know where the President was during the whole thing.
AlexM-3929653
They don't "think" about anything other than the fact that they have a new excuse to bitch about the GOP. 10 bucks says none of them even heard of her before this controversy and another 10 bucks says they'd still be defending her even if she were the re-incarnation of Pol Pot.
Hacks from BOTH parties NEVER miss an opportunity to spew their BS when they can whine and cry about the other guys at the same time.
The reality is that it does not matter if Amb. Rice volunteered to withdraw her name or if the President asked her to withdraw. He accepted her letter of withdrawal and decided to move on. The effect is the same.
BTW: while the House or Senate could compel the testimony of an executive branch officer, it can not do that to the President. Separation of Powers issue.
Susan Rice for President, 2016.
I literally have tears in my eyes from reading this statement: "I didn't want to see a confirmation process that was very prolonged -- very politicized, very distracting, and very disruptive. Because there are so many things we need to get done as a country."
Susan Rice is a woman who has served America well at the UN, and now she is bowing out of the running for a job she is well qualified for, to spare the country the ordeal of a partisan battle. What are Republicans good for? NOTHING.
Amy, I agree with you!! Still upset at GOP
Obama has no clue how much the majority are with him. Obama has all the power. He needs raise hell. His advisors from his first day in office have told him to avoid being the "angry black man"....this is aweful advice.
Obama has no power to have power you must have leadership. He does not have this. Angry black man lol he looks like Justin Bieber fighting with his mom... This is why they asked him to stop.
Amy,
If the shoe was on the other foot, you would think different. To say all republicans are good for nothing is a stupid comment. It's politics. Wipe your eyes and get over it!
Amy B. Portland, ME
What are Republicans good for? NOTHING
I sooo agree Amy. They are good for nothing unless it's obstrustion it's lies, war; foriegn and domestic.
Hmm, seems that there are a lot more Republicans in Federal and state governments than there are Democrats.
How can that be if the majority wants what the left wants? Uh oh, seems the nation is still center-right although the welfare shills did get together to vote in Obama who promised more free stuff. Stuff he can't deliver.
Obama is too much of a coward to raise hell. An "angry" Obama? Like the "angry" Obama who drew the red line in Syria concerning the preparation of chemical weapons and then backed off AGAIN?
Boehner goes on vacation and Obama STAYS on vacation. Hmmm.
Susan Rice knowingly lied and is paying the price of being too political for a position that requires a large degree of independence.
I agree, Amy---a very sad day when the GOP's demonization of a well-qualified candidate for such an important position forces her out of the running. I used to admire Sen. McCain for his service to the country and for the moment in the 2008 campaign when he called then-candidate President a good man in answer to the woman who was saying he was Muslim (as if that were a bad thing). But the McCain I see today is a bitter, nasty old man who does not deserve respect or admiration.
Oh the humanity! Bring on the poutrage! Order up some more whine. Really?!?! For President? That is so laughable. Keep living and dreaming in your own little world libs, it suits you.
NC numbers: This country is not center-right; my liberal friends were/are lazy and do not vote in off year elections. If they don't learn, we will be even more GNOP. I pray we will remember 2010.
Yesterday, a poster named Steven put it best:
The support you show for someone complicit in the deaths of Americans in Africa is despicable. She lied to America at Obama's request about the malfeasance Obama showed when he got our Ambassador murdered. The last incompetent, Islamic loving President we had, Jimmy Carter, Obama's soul mate, was the last President before Barrack to get an ambassador killed.
skibum609
I watched Meet The Press the day Susan Rice was on to talk about the deaths of the Ambassador and his security team. I could tell she was trying hard to be professional in the face of a devastating personal loss to the administration. I didn't get the impression she was trying to lead the public astray over the cause of Steven's death. I recall the whole of the middleast was demonstrating over that stupid movie clip insulting their Prophet. It was a scary time.
Ambassador Stevens was a gifted and brave man who moved among ordinary Libyans, working to form relationships that would benefit both America and the cause of democracy. He died in the service of a greater cause than Kelly Ayote, Lindsay Graham and even John McCain ever served. Ambassador Stevens served the cause of Peace and Justice. Republicans don't care about Rice's connections in the middleeast, which helped us remove Qaddafy without American troops.
They don't care that she has helped improve America's relations with countries around the globe, kind of an asset for a Secretary of State. Nope, they would rather see a MA senator vacate his seat so they have a chance to re-install Scott Brown. They would rather see the candidate they swiftboated, and claimed wouldn't be a good President, take the powerful and important role of SOS, just to make political gain.
Susan Rice is "bowing out?" Bowing out, my a$$! She was told to fall on her sword, just as she was told what to say re: Benghazi. Trying to get senate confirmation for Sec'y of State bring some focus again on the Benghazi murders and the gigantic mistakes by the State Dept (Hillary) and indeed the President himself....Rice was told to go out to those 5 Sunday talk shows and speak the "party line" to protect Obama, stall on information re: Benghazi, and keep focus on other things, like the election. Don't worry about "poor" Rice...she'll be given a very prestigious job by Obama that does NOT need Senate confirmation. Oh, and by the way, as for the "wonderful" job she's done at the U.N.: seriously, whether Repub or Democrat, look into it. The real "back" story is that she has had "sharp elbows", has angered quite a few folks there and in Congress and the Senate, and skipped out on important events. For example, when P.M. Netanyahu spoke to the U.N., Rice did NOT attend. Just because you're supposedly brainy doesn't mean you do a job well. God knows there are millions of very intelligent intellectuals who are no good at their jobs. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and God bless us and God help us in 2013.
Rice was never going to be confirmed. Whether you agreed with it or not, her public water carrying for the administration on Benghazi tainted her.
If she knew the truth, she went out there and purposefully lied. If she DIDN'T know the truth, what was she doing going on multiple talk shows claiming she DID know.
Either she's a liar, or she's an idiot that believes anything she's told. NEITHER is a trait you can have in a SecState.
Kerry will be confirmed easily. I don't like the man personally, but he will be an effective SecState.
...assuming he's the nominee.
...and would you be willing to bet the mortgage that someone wouldn't try to filibuster his confirmation as well?
The GOP has said at the beginning that Kerry will be confirmed easily.
And get your facts straight. Nobody 'filibustered' anything. Rice was never officially nominated - and nobody will be until most likely the end of the month. Obama was at least smart enough to see that this was a fight he didn't want to pick, the American people would NOT be on his side.
Can you honestly not see how this got set up? Obama sent Rice out as a scapegoat. He knew that it was a terrorist attack, but that didn't fit with the narrative he was trying to craft for the election. Hillary was too smart had too much self-preservation instinct to take a fall for him, so he sent Rice out to lie for him. SOMEBODY had to take the fall, and it looks like it's Rice.
Stand by for her to either continue on as UN Ambassador for his second term, or to be quietly appointed to a very cushy job with a huge paycheck.
Thank you...I am keenly aware that Susan Rice was never offiically nominated and that her confirmation was, therefore, never filibustered.
However, given the current record pace with which the 112th Congress has seen the Senate used the filibuster and the number of judicial nominees over the last four years who have been blocked, I stand by my statement.
Past four years? How about the past TWELVE years, when Democrats first started filibustering judicial nominees?
Remember that? When Republicans warned Democrats that they were setting a precedent that would come around and bite them?
You reap what you sowed. It's not necessarily a GOOD thing - but don't pretend that Democrats weren't doing exactly the same thing when Bush was in office.
In all seriousness, we need to get rid of the entire Congress - both sides. Clean sweep next election, and institute term limits. The problem is getting worse and worse on both sides, we have career politicians that sit in office for 20, 30, even 40 or more years, and are in 'safe' districts that never have to answer to anybody that will hold them accountable. Get rid of all of them, no more than 2 terms for a Senator (12 years), no more than 5 for the House (10 years).
Susan Rice: another Obama devotee thrown under the bus by the Boy Blunder.
Remember Robert Bork?
Informationalization
Rice was never going to be confirmed. Whether you agreed with it or not, her public water carrying for the administration on Benghazi tainted her.
On the contrary, the GOP/Tea potty is tainted.
What did she do any different from any other spokesperson did? Nothing! she reported what information she was given just like the all the previous ones did from both parties. What taints you rwnjs is your phoney video beaating up union members. Not wanting to release funding for veterans and disaster victims. yet you phonies scream to be american
Just like the concentration camp guartds who gassed millions.....she was just following orders.
Ignorant troll,
The only reason the republican mc senile and his leg humping Buddy Graham went after Rice was so push her out of the way so Kerry's seat would be up for grabs. Pure politics plain and simple.
Mc Senile probably shouldn't have called Susan Rice, a Rhoads Scholar "not to bright" considering he graduated at the bottom of his class and would have not graduated at all if not for his dad, an admiral.
If you are to stupid to see that I guess I can't help you.
Now the same GOP and Conservative apparatus that worked overtime to personally destroy the honor and bravery of John Kerry in 2004 has the utmost respect for him and would be honored to have him as SoS, the highest ranking cabinet member.
As if.
Obama needs to grow a pair. The majority were not opposed to Rice. She only read what was given to her.
Rice was thrown under the bus from the start by the President. How does someone that has not been offered something withdrawal. The President, whatever he may say does not want the Libya debacle to be center stage and if she was nominated the mainstream media would actually have to ask questions.
Rice was on a list of two potential candidates, she withdrew her name from consideration.
And you know that how. Do you have inside information?
Ms Rice learned the lesson that Colin Powell learned when he lied for Bush.
"When you lie for your corrupt and incompetent boss you do not get promoted."
President Obama sacrificed Susan Rice's career to protect his image.
I have no doubt that President Obama would sacrifice his own wife if it meant saving his A#%!
If he does that to those that he knows what will "our" President do to YOU the average American that he has never met?
Did you say something or did you just emit a methane burst from your lower extremities as a result of the cheap fiber you ingested last evening?
Charlie
that is a typical ideological liberal or conservative response
unintelligent
rude and childish
and with it you prove that your points are invalid and bias
A typical ideological response to typical extremist, right-wing, mindless, FOX-infested, bubble blather, mind you. Thanks.
Charlie
wrong again!
no Jeopardy Championship for you!
wow and you waited to see if I had left
No Charlie see the response to your post directly below.
do you see how I independently blasted MSNBC and FOX
both Bush and Obama
know why?
because Charlie they are the same---that is the correct Jeopardy answer enjoy your day
you might want to take a pain killer b/c I am sure your backside hurts after that
The color issue is one thing. The fact that this poor woman was forced out of contention for the reasons put forth is the real travesty. This is an amazingly strong, educated, formidable person of real character, who acted on information she was given by our own intelligence tank, in the moment, information that was proven incorrect a day later but by then had been spun, twisted, and otherwise politicized to within an inch of its life by the pettiest of the petty Republican Whine Squad. They should be thoroughly and absolutely ashamed.
Charlie you want to blame someone for Ms Rice's position?
Start with her boss President Obama.
And end with the fact that there is no independent media we are stuck with the likes of FOX NEWS and MSNBC.
If we had an independent media Bush would never had been reelected and neither would have Obama.
You make no sense regarding blaming the President, nor do you give any qualification for your remark. And, although I would agree with the media comment, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Republican reaction in this event.
Charlie he sacrificed her career.
Obama sent Susan Rice out to lie on Sunday Morning hoping that she would be saved by "plausible deny ability".
It did not work
why?
because the families of the victims of the Libya attacks won't go away.
She was a terrible candidate, even without the Benghazi issue. Open your eyes.
Vicky, please explain the motivation – not to mention your source – behind the President purposely sending out someone to lie about something that you say he knew was untrue and would be proven so in the days to come. You make zero sense, which is certainly a confirmation that you're consistent.
Charlie please inform the WORLD as to why Susan Rice has declined the position.
Better yet inform the world as to why Hillary Clinton is stepping down from the position Rice was attempting to fill.
HINT: Hillary Clinton is trying to save her career by distancing herself from the CORRUPTION of the the Obama administration.
And Charlie just because someone can take a position against both the extreme left and extreme right does not make them "inconsistent"
It shows that if you can not understand that concept you can not think for yourself
Charlie,
You ask fr the motivation for the president to porposely send out Rice to lie.I wish I could give it to you . I don't know why he would do that but apparently he did. Think for a moment and ask yourself a question Do you believe that the President and the Secretary to the UN would be the LAST people to know what happened. I think not. I believe that when questioned about the event the CORRECT answer from either of them should have been ---
"It's unclear at this moment. We are trying to determine who attacked the Embassy and why. I wish I could tell you more but I can't tell you what we are not sure of."
Instead she granted interviews on national television and either told a lie or put forth a very undocumented theory. Take your pick as to which it was. Either way it makes the both of them look like idiots.
I know I am very old fashioned but I want the truth from ALL politicians (like that will ever happen). One of the big points being made is that if she did not know the truth why didn't she just keep her mouth shut. If in her position this was not a place I would have stood out on. She should have known it was up to the president to tell us what happened, not her. And he should have known it was his responsability to inform us. Instead have come to believe he just tossed her under the bus to gain time.
Paul
You have reignited my hopes that there is still a America in which people pay attention and read BETWEEN the lines.
Thank you Victor (I think). Perhaps I just grew up in a different age. Buit I still believe that if you don't have a clue you're better off keeping your mouth shut. That way noone can call you on what you don't say.
I find it funny that the Repubs are the only ones catching any flak from this fortunate event. What about the the Green liberals who were also voicing concerns over the investments she had related to the Keystone Pipeline? Obama was all for backing her until the Enviromentalist turned on her too.
Amy B. Portland, ME -- i love you!
The Republican Party represents nothing except Grover-the-lobbyist-moneymaker-Norquist, Tea Party I-want-my-benefits-but-don't-want-to-pay-taxes operatives, and vaginal probe "Christians" who drive gas guzzling SUVs to their mega churches on Sunday and then complain about gas prices.
Coming from a decidedly conservative household, today's Republican Party is nothing I recognize.
What is today's Republican Party (leadership) good for? Nothing.
wow
what does Obama "own"
nothing is the King's fault
was I as in love with the Black Jesus in 2008 when I voted for him?
I guess I was as delusional then as you still are.
Open those eyes the Emperor has no clothes
Victor-1304988
wow
what does Obama "own"
nothing is the King's fault
was I as in love with the Black Jesus in 2008 when I voted for him?
I guess I was as delusional then as you still are.
Open those eyes the Emperor has no clothes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're still delusion if you think President Obama is a Black Jesus. The emperor(s) without clothes have had the curtains pulled back. Now we see them in their naked truth. That'd be the Kochs, Adelsons, Romney, that old goat Rupert Murdoch the NRA & ALEC. They lost all that money and still have not come clean.
Beverly somehow in your rant of blame you failed to mention George Soros, Warren Buffet and General Electric AKA MSNBC AKA NBC.
It is true the entire system is incestuous and corrupt and that whether the puppet is Black or White the house of cards is about to come crashing down.
We will know what the Romans felt like when the Barbarians showed up.
I apologize yet again for voting Obama in 2008
Geoirge Bush was owned by American corporations while Obama is owned by Anti-American Islamists. Progressives, hating America and success, choose Obama.
skibu609 - your ignorance is showing - big time. Bush was owned by the war making machine and President Obama is owned by no one. That's what you really can't stand - that and the fact that he looks different than you!
No one hates American success - many of us enjoy that success. That's just another lie whined by the far right mental midgets!
Rice nomination never had a chance with the party of fat white guys.
wow
The fat old white guys
George W Bush
does Barrack Obama own responsibility for ANYTHING but a Beyonce autograph and a good golf game?
NC1234... she never had a chance for lying to the public. Don't blame the white men for her utter failure. Look into your leftie party to see who's keeping her off, your Obama. You're too blind to see that Obama gave her the boot to save his image.
I think you mean Old Fat White Guys.
Thanks Corybud for the accurate correction.................How about those weapons of mass deception from Condoleeza Rice you Old Fat white guys.........THOSE were different because they were Republican "fairy tales".........not lies you understand..........only the "best available intelligence at the time"
The rabid Reps/Baggers are out in force. The haters of anything logical, kind, just or fair are livid because the Majority of the country (including Most right leaning constituents) have given up on the crazy Republicans/Teas. The party of No is in a panic and will grasp at Anything they can to try and stay relevant in politics.
What I find SAD is the Pathetic way the GNOP & minions, still follow the likes of Rushbo, Hannity, Rove and FOX when they LIED to them... all the way up to election night about Mitt winning by a LAND slide...only to have the Complete opposite be true.
The gNop will push this country "Off the Cliff" and the people will hold them accountable.
King Grover has castrated the once proud GOP...SAD.
Barry is the king of dodge ball!
LMAO
the undisputed champ
Nice spudson nice..
spoken like the morons they are...three stooges
...
Let all the taxes go up, rich, middle class, all of them. It's not like the taxes haven't gone up tremendously anyhow. If any of you are baking Christmas treats this year have you noticed the price increases with Sugar and other sweet products, that was the taxes being raised to keep us all healthier. My problem with giving the government more money is that it's like giving it to the United Way, only 13 cents or less of every dollar actually goes to someone that needs it, the rest is all waste.
Finally, someone does the right thing for the country.
To anyone who actually thinks that she withdrew without being persuaded to by odumba...I have some desert land in Afghanistan to sell ya ! All hail our muslim leader.......
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2012/12/new-army-manual-orders-soldiers-not-to-criticize-taliban/#respond
"..muslim leader.."
You're a sad, sad person.
striker
comments like that do not help in showing the mindless ones that the Emperor has no clothes
Victor - no it shows the mindlessness of those like you and Striker1 who clearly have no clue! The mindless Republicans will never own up to the fact they know nothing and every word they post is filled with hate for a man who is working to help our country! You truly are mental midgets - but good little Republicans!
the tax rate for multi millionares is at the lowest it has been in 70 years, that said, what the people did to ms Rice is criminal.
when the people involved go home and start seeing their ilk decorating trees, they will get the message
Gee Don, yes let's congratulate everyone involved for misinforming about the Benghazi cover up and hold no one accountable. Heck let's just give a pass on anything done in Washington that has anything to do with a D next to their name. UNBELIEVABLE.
Rice's Benghazi talking points and lies could have been criminal should she have testifed to it in the SOS confirmation hearing. She became another bus casualty to save Obama's rear from embarrassment and further Benghazi focus during the hearings. Another one bites the dust with more on the way.
The title of this article should have read: "The importance of killing your enemies." This is another fight any other president would not even have had come up, let along have had to lose. There has never been any fight in this president -- only the big lie down, roll over, and play dead. President Obama lost due to the geriatric rage of an old coot John McCain who isn't fit to drive his own car, let alone represent the State of Arizona. The only way this president accomplishes anything is by decree and edict. That is not leadership. That is not strength.
Yup, or by executive order, or claiming executive privilege. Obama is an effeminate wimp and certainly not a leader.
Astute comment. Also, a strong leader rallies people behind him/her. Persuades, explains, cajoles, exhorts, convinces. This guy uses "cooperation" and "bipartisanship" as magic wands to cover for his lack of fight - and competence as a leader.
Rex - your comment is so beyond disgusting it's ridiculous. But, what you're too ignorant to understand is, it says more about you than it does about President Obama -and none of what it says is good!
This could be a big win for the republicans if Kerry is appointed. It might mean the return of Wall Street's boy Scott Brown. I don't see a good candidate like Elizabeth Warren to run against him. Hopefully crawling in bed with Karl Rove and running a sleazy smear campaign against Warren has tarnished his "nice guy" image.
You lost me when you said Elizabeth Warren was a good candidate.
Ed Markey will run, no? Scott Brown was soundly thrashed - has the stink of loser, and pretty much bad loser. Should be interesting.
As an African American woman, it hurts to see what is happening to Amb. Rice. Too many times we are put into boxes and told to stay in our place. I watched an interview where it was said that Amb. Rice was too outspoken, had ruffled McCain's and others feathers, which is the driving force behind these bigoted Senators' attack on the Amb. In these interviews, it was also pointed out that although Secretary Clinton was outspoken, abrasive, hard to deal with, etc., that she is no longer that way and that she has learned to tone it down. But yet, being abrasive and outspoken, no one stopped Clinton's nomination as Secretary of State. Too many times, excuses are found and accepted for why "we" should not get a position for which we have fought hard to get and have done well to qualify for and deserve such positions. While I am very disappointed that Sen. McCain and other Republican politicians would stoop so low to carry out a vendetta they have against our African American leaders, I am not surprised. They have gone after Amb. Rice, Eric Holder, President Obama, and without just cause. I raised my daughters with the knowledge that they have to work harder, be smarter, and then after all that, be able to take the disappointments they will surely face (because of racism and bigotry) with grace and dignity. Ambassador Rice has taken this modern day "lynching" which was definitely driven by hate and bigotry, with grace and dignity. And to her I say, stay strong my "Sistah" and continue to give them "hell"! You are truly someone whom I will teach my granddaughters to respect and to work hard to follow in your footsteps. So to you Amb. Rice, I say thank you for your superb service to these United States of America!!!
Amen, Deepdimples. For the longest time I argued that the GOP wasn't being racist--that they were equal-opportunity obstructionists and would be doing the same to any Democrat regardless of color---but there have been too many circumstances for me to believe that is true any longer.
I echo you in your thanks to Ambassador Rice---what an example to young women everywhere she is.
Here we go, the race card again. What about Condie, Powel were these people only pretending to be African American? Come on now, this had nothing to do with her color, it was about her going on shows and pedaling the lies to the American people, whether the Administration put her out there to twist in the wind or not it was still done.
Image is everything, look how everybody is always pointing fingers at everyone else trying to say who's at fault for every little thing. That's just the way it is I guess.
Tis situation had NOTHING to do with Rice's race or gender.
THEY HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH RICE GETTING INVOLVED IN SOMETHING SHE HAD NO BUSINESS STICKING HER NOSE INTO!
By trying to kiss Obama's a$$ so that he would nominate her for SoS when Hilary departed, she ended up losing it all.
What the F did our UN Ambassador have to do with the situation that occurred in Libya?
The right people who should have been speaking about the situation were either:
a- The President
b - The Secretary of State
c - Someone who developed the assessments from one of the "Intelligence" functions
d - Someone in the military chain of command that was contacted when the incident occurred
It's time that you folks on the left stop calling people who disagree with you racists. The only true racists in this situation are you and the wannabe emeperor that you re-elected.
You're applauding Susan for being a devious and untrustworthy liar?? Someone who would have no respect from other diplomats or world leaders?!
As a white American, I am sick of minorities playing the race card. Every time a white person disagrees with a person of color, he or she is automatically and forever labeled as a racist. A white person is not allowed to disagree with a person of color for any reason. If people of color ever want to be released from this modern self-inflicted, self-perpetuating blindness that has artificially kept them groping in the dark for "justice", they must quit looking at any statement by a non-minority through the prism of racism. I don't look at Obama as a racist just because he disagrees with just about every issue that I firmly believe and fight for. He just disagrees with me. Also, is it possible that the reason that Obama selects men and women of color to key positions is so that any criticism of them can be couched as racist and therefore can be ignored even if the criticism is absolutely valid? Bush selectedColin Powell, Condoleeza Rice and other minorities for positions of power, but those highly qualified people were labeled as Uncle Toms or tokens by the Hyphenated-American community and routinely raked over the coals by the Democrat Party and white people did not scream that the Democrat Party was racist. We assumed that the criticism was based upon the philosophical beliefs of the detractors.
Deepdimples-
You're a racist for even thinking this to be true! Why are your daughters any different from mine? We all have adversity to overcome. What differentiates us is how we go about it. I have taught my daughters and my sons from birth that the cards are stacked against them because they ARE white. They will have to work three times harder than anyone else because they are white and the affirmative action police not only will never give them any benefit, they will look for ways to hinder them and their progress. There are no college admission benefits, scholarships, grants or loans available to them because they are upper middle class and white. I didn't teach them that race is an issue for anything. It is used as a distraction in today's climate. I taught them that a persons written thoughts, public speeches, statements and deeds are the best indicator of who they are and what they stand for. Susan Rice is an Obama Administration political operative and is not prepared to be Secretary of State for the United States of America.
These same racist and sexist that voted for Condi Rice and Colin Powell. Give it a rest . These were not the issues and everyone that has open eyes know it!
All American women and including African American women must be really "ticked off" at our President and the Democratic Party for throwing women under the bus. Susan Rice was told to lie to the American people by the almighty White House for the purpose of saving the Obama campaign.
Deepdimples,
WHen all else fails, here comes the race card. If it's not race, it's sexist or both. Obama has trained his minions wells. Whoops, I'm a misogynist and racist now.................
Oh, sure....... If a man OR woman with a darker skin tone happens to lose out on ANY position, it HAS to be about RACE only, right? Please, this gets SO old. The woman was NOT qualified, had way too many questions she COULD NOT ANSWER (at least not truthfully), and had no business even being considered for the job.
There is a FaceBook site "I love it when I wake up in the morning and Barack Obama is President". That is how I am feeling this morning (as I usually do). I am disappointed that Susan Rice won't be Secretary of State but proud of the deep bench we Democrats have that John Kerry among others will do a good job. But mostly I'm glad that President Obama is playing chess while the GOP plays checkers. Sure, the GOP tactics have kept a well-qualified woman of color from the Secretary of State position. But they have further damaged an already tarnished image. And they show no signs of stopping.
President Obama is not playing chess, dude. He's playing Russian Roulette. Vladamir Putin is proud. The GOP didn't keep Rice from pursuing the Secretary of State post. They just fired a warning shot across the bow in letting the administration know that if she tries to go through, they will be asking questions about the Benghazi cover-up that Obama really should be impeached over. Obama thought that through and decided that he doesn't really need Susan Rice at the State Dept.
Use a straw while you drink that Kool-Aid...you might choke.
Obama is playing chess? That is a perfect description of Obama. Our country is being destroyed and Obama is playing games. The rest of the world is moving on. The Chinese and Russians are laughing their asses off at our weak pathetic "Dear Leader' as he demonstrates to the world how incapable he is at motiviating, inspiring or otherwise leading Americans to prosperity and security. Hell, Obama is such a pathetic leader, he has not been able to convince the Democrats in Congress to offer a budget for 4 years. Shouldn't he be capable of getting those in his own party to do what they are required by law to do? Our economic enemies are seeing Obama do to this country what they have failed to do fora couple of centuries, divide, destroy, conquer then rule us.
Exactly Leonard, Obama was once again thinking about Obama.
Steeler: This is not a game and hence the reason the Democrats have made a mess of our government and credibility around the world.
I take one thing away from the daily postings of Joe in Albany on this website -- he is one miserable person who has nothing better to do than to constantly whine about the fact that his piece of crap candidate lost and that he belongs to the party that is disgracing this country more and more every day. I just hope he has not had children who have to grow up to call him "daddy." If he does have kids, I think we should all pray for them as they have been given a torture that no human should have to endure.
kim v, I take it you are a young educated(book wise) lady. Did you watch any of the coverage at Michigan and the way the union(*democrats) acted? Do you notice, that the dems have a history of being violent? Especially when they lose. Maybe this is why obama has been associated with terrorist( bill eyers) and his so call preached, who he claims he never heard him spew hate against America). He can't handle not getting his way. I bet he beat up all the little white kids in elementary school. anyway, he or one of his disciples told rice to get out there and tell the sheep that it was not a planned attack. Rice being a lamb did just that. To make matters worse, when she was called in to clarify her actions in front of individual Senators, she got angry and defensive with them. To make it simple, she is a hot headed person that couldn't curb her tonge or anger. As for Kerry, He's one of those rich pieces of crap that you democrats are always jumping on.
Isn't it obvious!
The winning answer for Obama and the nation is COLIN POWELL!
Obama would be crazy to hand the Republicans the golden opportunity to take Kerry's seat in the Senate....Scott Brown is dying to return to DC and haunt Elizabeth warren and the Democrats.
Elizabeth Warren deserves to be tortured. The people of Massachusetts used poor judgment electing her over Scott Brown. He is a terrific Senator. She is a nut job. Have you ever listened to her?
I agree with Jennifer
Susan Warren has got to have a mental health diagnosis.
She is clinically nuts
and isn't she the one who claimed to be Native American in college thus taking a scholarship away from some native kid?
Jennifer, Scott Brown did NOTHING for the state of Massachusetts. I am no fan of Elizabeth Warren, but the reason we voted her in over Scott, was because all he did during his multi million dollar campaign was bash her about the Native American thing. Who gives a sheeet? make your point, and move on. Also, a hell of a lot more Democrats came out because it was a Presidential election ballot. He just didn't get it.
Remember now, he was elected to Ted Kennedy's seat, after his death, by a special election, with little turn out, running against a total dope ( AG Martha Coakley) Massachusetts voters do not want a Republiclown in TKs seat. He was just playing back-up quarterback, until the people found someone they wanted more. He could get Kerry's seat, if Kerry gets the nod for Sec of State. But, he'd be better off running as an Independant. Massachusetts is DONE with electing Republiclowns.
I live in Massachusetts where the last 3 speakers of the house here, all Democrats, have been convicted or pled guilty to corruption and you wonder why the criminals who vote for these people would vote for an Affirmative action fraud, Corporate shill like Elizabeth Pocahontas Warren? She has no resume and has lived her life off the work of others, which makes her...the same as Obama.
What an absolute crock. She is continuing the slander against the Republicans. It's all their fault. Just because she is a poor candidate, who lied to the American people. Don't say she didn't know. She knew and did it for Obama's campaign. She has access to the intel and Panetta knew within 24 hours it was a terrorist attack. She also has a very bad reputation on her current position at the UN and is known for insulting and condescending behavior. Last of all, she was involved with the State Dept. in Africa when the Sudan and Kenya embassies were bombed....another of the embassies with little protection. She has no business being Secretary of State.
One of the many things that I find funny about this ignorant President that has befallen this nation is a quote attributed to him in another "news" story that says "President Barack Obama is urging the NHL and the players' association to ''do right by your fans'' and find a solution to the league's lockout." Too bad he does not take his own advice when it comes to the financial train wreck that he has exacerbated over the past 4 years! Do right by the American people! I am sooooo tired of this Idiot-in Chief. We need a real leader.
Having a tough day there are you Nobama? Think you can get John Kerry in there? In your wetest dreams Boy Blunder...
Hey, you need to improve spelling before posting here. This site is only for adults with training in spelling.
Idiotic posts are all Pigsty can come up with...too funny.
Someone with a name like "Pigotry" who is FEISTY stopped short would get a broken nose has forfeited the right to criticize.
I think you might want to tell that to MSNBC. You wonder if any of them ever took a course in English.