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Voters looking for signs of progress toward a deal to resolve the fiscal cliff got none on Thursday, as congressional leaders appeared as far apart as ever.
Chip Somodevilla / Getty Images
House Speaker John Boehner leaves after his weekly news briefing in the Capitol Visitors Center at the U.S. Capitol December 13, 2012 in Washington, DC.
House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., each held press conferences to outline their positions on the fiscal cliff. And both party leaders appeared as unyielding as ever in their positions.
Boehner again urged President Barack Obama to issue a new plan to outline spending cuts, and he castigated the idea of raising income tax rates.
The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd explains why the fiscal cliff negotiations haven't fallen apart yet. NBC's Jim Miklaszewski then joins the conversation to talk about the situation in Syria.
And Pelosi said Republicans must "get real," arguing that Congress must "come to some agreement in the next couple of days or the very beginning of next week for us to have engineered our way to a solution."
Lawmakers and Obama must reach an agreement before Dec. 31 to forestall the cocktail of automatic spending cuts and tax hikes set to take effect unless Congress acts.
The level of spending cuts and whether tax rates should be increased continue to ensnare negotiations. But as Congress careens toward the end-of-year deadline -- House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Va., warned Thursday of work around the holidays -- the public posturing continues to highlight the differences that persist between Obama and congressional Republicans.
While giving an update on stalled fiscal cliff negotiations, Speaker of the House John Boehner references a chart, created by former GOP vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan, which he says illustrates Washington's "spending problem."
"We made a reasonable offer. It's now up to the White House to show us how their way to cut spending will give us the balanced approach that the president has talked about for weeks," Boehner said.
Amid additional speculation that striking a deal with Obama that raises takes would imperil his position, the Republican speaker also shrugged off the notion that he was concerned with retaining power.
"I'm not concerned about my job as speaker," he said. "What I'm concerned about is doing the right things for our kids and grandkids."
Leave a Comment:
Just when I think I'm almost feeling sorry for Otis, he steps up to the microphone and reminds me why I despise him...
It brings me much comfort knowing he will go down in history as the most ineffective Speaker evuh!
With any luck, Congress will kick his orange ass to the curb come January...
No need to fell sorry for The Weeper, Feisty.
He has plenty of sympathy for himself.
How much longer before the GOPTP start giving away free stuff to garner votes? After all, they are stuck on stupid and think re-gifting gifts is a sure way to win elections.
"I'm not concerned about my job as speaker," he said. "What I'm concerned about is doing the right things for our kids and grandkids."
==========
Been around a long time John....cast a lot of votes. Not certain your actions would back up that alleged concern.
"our" kids and grandkids? You mean the offspring of the 1%.
The Crying Speaker doesn't even know what he wants. For 2 years, he has said he wants spending cuts.
America asks him to name the cuts Republicans demand.
Republicans respond that they can't say what they want or Americans would never vote Republican again. Today's Republicans know that even Reagan agreed to raise Romney's tax rate from 15% to 28%. Today's Republicans know they stand up for things Reagan called un-American.
Ames,
Don't know about you, but I have heard this snivel my entire life...
If they were serious, something would of been done about it years ago!
GOP is destrutive - they won't rest until they destroy social security and medicare which our grandma and gradpa depend on.
GOP is self-destructive - poll after poll shows the GOP is losing public support, but the GOP can't change its self-destructive instincts.
Boehner isn't concerned about anything but Grover patting him on the head and saying "good boy!" My guess is he can't brush his teeth without Grover's approval.
It is time there was a speaker with a spine - oh, that leaves out all Republicans!
Feisty--shame on you for putting the image of Boehner's orange ass in my mind. His orange face is bad enough!
I might feel differently if the Republicans hadn't brought on our current fiscal crisis with their tax cuts, unfunded wars and Medicare gift to big pharma and then compounded it with their obstructionism of the last 4 years. Given all that, the Speaker's arguments seem lame to me.
Steeler Fan,
Think of them as interchangeable! lol
Kind of a one size fits all...
***HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO MY GIRL SEEKING SANITY****
We have much to party about tomorrow night over at the Dew Drop Inn!
I love how Boehner states that he is not concerned about his job. Isn't it interesting though that he seems to be the one "slow walking" this to the cliff? My opinion is that he would like to string this thing out, let us go over the cliff, and try to put the blame on Obama and the Dems. All in the name of saving his own job. He has until Jan 3 or 4 before Congress is set to vote whether or not he will retain his seat as House Speaker. Now many have said that Cantor has been eyeballing the Speaker position for a few years and I wouldn't put it past that POS to be cutting some back room wheeling and dealing with other House members who may not like Johnny boy so much and would be willing to cast a vote for Cantor. If you all notice, Cantor does not seem to be at the forefront in any of these negotiations, at least not like he was last summer. This tactic keeps him out of the fray and less likely to carry much of the blame that the Republican party will most certainly carry if a deal is not settled before the end of the year.
Feisty - thank you!!!! Definite party tomorrow night!!!
Happy Birthday, Seeking Sanity! Today we are seeking best wishes for you for the year ahead! (have given up on seeking sanity in the GOP).
Happy Bithday Seeking!!! I'll buy you a round tomorrow to celebrate!
Steeler - thank you! Unfortunately, I believe you're right - never gonna find sanity in the GOP!!!
Thank you Layton! Can't wait!
Happy Birthday SEEKING!!!!!!!
I will toast you tonight with my evening cocktail! Could be plural as I am off tomorrow! Woo Hoo!
I despise the Liberals who have taken hold of the Democratic party. You Liberals obviously has no business sense whatsoever. If you did, you would realize the spending that both parties are doing will be the death of this country economically, unless that is what you are striving for. If it is, you seem to be getting your wish. Just remember the rich will always be rich, and the middle class will cease to exist. And Piggy, it is actually the Liberals who are destructive.
AlaskaGirl - enjoy and thank you!
JERSY GIRL - but you have no problem with Grover Norquist controlling the Republican party? You show with every post you make that you don't have a clue! Tell the truth, you're really Snooki, right?
Happy Birthday SEEKING!
What are you now... 12 or 13?
I have you on ignore but I thought I'd see what you have to say. Yep, remembered why I have you on ignore.
Right back atcha Jersy!
The Republican party has been taken over by radical extremists who have no desire for facts, equality, basic human rights, or the ability to read or understand the Constitution. Good luck! Your party is dying off and I will also toast you and your party tonight for a very quick death! Cheers!
Conservatives are so ignorant that they can't even spell their own state correctly! LOL
Seeking
Hippo Birdie 2 Ewes Southern Belle. Yikes, are you are older than SotB above? That you are wiser we know.
Sick - and even at 12 or 13 I could run circles around you as far as intelligence goes! Go figure! But - thanks for the Happy Birthday - even sarcastically!
bcwc - LOL - started celebrating without me, huh? Thank you!!!!
Jersy Girl,
Our National Debt is currently at 100% of our GDP. At the end of WWII it was 125% of GDP.
Japan Debt is current at 200% of their GDP and no one is saying that Japan will default on their Debt or that China is going to take control of Japan.
Our National Debt should be of concern but it is not the end of like in the USA as we have come to know and love.
President does not = Czar, when will Obama get that? He won an election, not a lifetime dictatorship.
NO to his request to carte blanche with the debt ceiling. Its over, no discussion can be had over any deal, that includes this. Even requesting this, shows how power hungry he is, and the utter lack of respect he has for our government and our process.
No wonder other countries laugh when Obama speaks.
Prove it
T-REX,
The Debt Ceiling increase is only needed to pay for what has already been spent.
It's not like they pass a bill to increase the Debt Ceiling before they pass spending bills.
It is a political game to even have a debt ceiling. The House (where spending bills must originate) controls the spending so if they don’t want a higher debt then stop passing appropriation bills that calls for
more spending than projected revenues.
They (House Membership) currently pass spending that is greater than our revenues then want to deny an increase to the debt ceiling … what a joke.
and raising the debt ceiling is a lack of leadership (when republicans do it)
CA,
That was just political posturing done by both Parties until the Republicans in 2011 decided to use the DC to hold our Country hostage.
Before 2011, once all the votes were counted and there were enough to increase the debt ceiling some members of Congress were OK’ed to vote against it and rail against the increase. Just political gamesmanship
Seeking, I have as much trouble with Norquist as I do with the Unions, the rich movie stars and billionaires like Warren Buffet controlling the Democratic party. Obama raised over 5 million from large corporations. Stop being so naive. It goes on in both parties. Where do you think all the billions Obama used to run his campaign? Companies like Solyndra gave to him big time and expect paybacks in the way of contracts and funding and pet projects.
How does Boehner fighting against raising taxes on the Top 2% wealthiest Americans, help our "kids and grandkids"?
It doesn't, it HURTS future generations because as long as Republicans refuse to pay the bills and refuse to pay for the loans Republicans took from China to pay for that Lie Called the War in Iraq, the bills will remain here for future generations, along with all of the trillions of dollars in interest that continues to accure on the loans.
It's my guess that Boehner's own rearent is the ONLY thing Boehner is worried about.
I get so tired of some of you liberals. You are so sticks and stones type of people. Every position you take is just so predictable, I see most of you as weak-kneed and just pussies. Do you not read what Jersery Girl or T-Rex say, have you had your head up your behind these last elections. The Christian right is no more different than the Taliban, the Tea Party, look below the surface, it is nothing more than the Klan raising its ugly little head again. We have reached the point where the tree of democracy needs to be watered with the blood of tyrants. People like Cantor, Ryan, Rubio, Bachman, but also Jersey Girl, T-Rex and the rest of the trailer trash that comes on this site. I just don't know if you are tough enough to do it.
@Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL:
Republicans standing firm = "THE PARTY OF 'NO'!"
Republicans rolling over = "A POLITICAL VICTORY FOR OBAMA!"
Republicans compromising = "A POLITICAL VICTORY FOR OBAMA!"
Let's face it - they can't 'win', regardless.
JERSY GIRL - none of the people/groups you refer to have had the Democrats - or our President - sign an oath to them guaranteeing anything! They don't control the President.
I'm not naive. I understand politics - cleary something you still can't grasp.
Who do you think controls the Republican party? Norquist, Haliburton, Northrop etc.
Dan - anger management - look in the phone book!
Some other billionaire Obama supporters, George Soros, Steven Spielberg, Sam Walton, Penny Pritzker, Daniel Abraham, Anne Cox of Cox Communications, Bill Gates. I can go on and on. These people and corporations are hardly the middle class of the lower class. They all expect paybacks in some form or another. Then there was money coming in from the Mexican Drug Cartels. I wonder what they expect?
he Dennis if that is what you have to say or believe in order to justify it then go for it. But Barrak Obama said it was a lack of leadership so why is/was it not posturing when he said that? I find it funny if the Democrats do the same thing the RNC does/did its leadership but vice versa it's not.
BTW i thought the war on class was against the 1%? why is it now 2%? maybe in a month it will be the top 5%?
16 Trillion!!!! Can you count the number of digits in that? That is how much each of us as an American owes. It isn't smoke and mirrors bro. That is real money owed to the Chineese and other lenders. Do you want to be the one to pay that back? Probably not, you just want the 2% to do it. Fine, but raising taxes on the 2% isn't more than a drop in the bucket in paying back 16 trillion. You'd have to take almost the 2%'s entire capital and I'm not sure even that would do it. Then if the 2% become poor like the rest of us who is going to hire you and give you a job? See what I mean. Even if you don't understand budgets and economics grow some common sense.
TO: Dan-1018744 who wrote:
There are plenty of other sites that focus on Republican mentality, and made up data.
Any ordinary person would tend to believe that you come to this site because you do like it here.
CA,
The argument has always been about those making greater than $200K/$250K weather that
is the top 1% or 2% and our President has been consistent about that dollar figure {period}.
Exactly what cuts to medicare for sick old people in order to protect more tax cuts for the wealthy would be acceptable to the GOTea, Mr. Speaker?
Speaker in da House
From the article above:
I guess he wasn't concerned about his kids and grandkids when Bush was President and he voted in congress to increase the debt and to raise the debt limit over and over again.
Salud
Seeking sanity, Have a wonderful birthday.
Noah-2406772
Seems to be going the right way as far as China goes..
You democrats need to start doing more than just blaming Republicans for all your woes.If that's all you can do then your party will get the axe too, then we will see what happens from there.The American people have shown that there is little tolerance for failure and the Democrats are not immune.
Dennis,
You don't understand the Debt ceiling. It is a ceiling on what the federal government can borrow in the future, and not what they have already spent.
SeekingSanity-
Happy Birthday!!!
"...and many MORE!!!"
(spank)
(wink)
Salud
so Dennis you (and Obama) think 2% of the populace makes 250k? WTF? so the arbitrary percentage is for what again? so the left can play knight in shinning armor, here to rescue the day? cant wait till the top 5% or 10% is the new flavor of the week.
Noah-2406772-
ROTFLMFAO!!!!
Thanks, I needed that.
Salud
DB,
So how can that be true if when we fail to increase it we immediately default on our debt?
Try again …
Noah, Honey. You do realize that the entire time the 2% have been paying less in taxes than the average middle class American our jobs have been shipped overseas in record numbers, right? Cutting taxes for the rich does not, repeat, does NOT, create jobs. Putting more money in the pockets of the people that actually spend it creates jobs. Get a clue.
O.M.G.
DB: Go do your homework! Everyone, well except you obviously and some of your other little friends, knows that the debt ceiling is a mechanism that is for monies that we have already spent. It has to be raised periodically so that we can pay our "creditors", otherwise we are in default and our credit rating goes down. Hint: Think back to the last debt ceiling fiasco. First time in our history that our credit rating was downgraded. Think about it this way. If you have a credit card and you buy a bunch of stuff on credit, you then have to make monthly payments to pay it off. If you don't, what does the bank do to you? They notify the credit reporting agencies and your credit score is downgraded, thus providing you less chance of receiving further credit from other lending institutions.
Noah! LOL LOL Maybe you don't know this, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, but the top 1% in this country are sitting tightly on approximately 3 TRILLION dollars! I don't think they are going to go broke anytime soon. So sweet of you to be concerned about the arrogantly wealthy!
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
I think it's a tie: Boner + Gingrich.
What is interesting that in 1997 several House Republicans tried to replace Newt as Speaker. The attempted coup was led by - who else???- BONER who didn't succeed but Newt ended up hanging himself anyway by violating federal tax law and lying to the ethics panel.
yeah, I'm torn between the two because if your own party is conspiring to get you replaced, how effective can you be?
to make an addition...
to make the assumption that IF the rich became poor then the jobs disappear is a J-O-K-E
if the RICH disappeared tomorrow all it would do is leave greater opportunity for those of us that are left. we wouldn't have corporate greed to stifle individual creativity and success...
JERSY GIRL - proof about the drug cartels you damned liar! However, Grover's group is supported by Pakistan (where his wife is from), Syria, etc., and that support goes to the Republican party!
Lisa and Thomas - thank you!!! (blushing)
Someone should do a video on youtube showing every video clip of Boehner saying the word serious. I mean seriously, can you seriously say serious that serious so many times? Also, whats with the twitch he has when he speaks? Is that an alcohol thing?
brenda, I thnk he had a lisp as a kid . . .
"We made a reasonable offer. It's now up to the White House to show us how their way to cut spending will give us the balanced approach that the president has talked about for weeks," Boehner said."
I have looked and could find nothing that defines what the republicans want other than protecting their wealthy friends and donors. IF the republicans have any real ideas on what cuts to make ad exactly how much to cut ..it would be good to see. Just as with the presidential lines handed out by every republican during the past election.....lots of talk but not one word on exactly what they propose. Other than no tax increases for their wealthy friends and donors.
not everyone can be born as perfect as King Obama the Wise. All HAIL!
Brenda,
It's the lizard like lip licking which drives me CRAAAZY! lol
Serpent has a forked tongue...
Jersey Girl - exactly how did Sam Walton contribute? He's been dead for quite a while. Try again.
Enough talk Boehner, put up or shut up.
If you want spending cuts, state them. Tell us all what the cuts will be taken from, and how much.
We have been waiting a long time for the house to write these bills.
Quit asking the President to do your job, you would not last long in a private sector job if you asked the CEO to do your job.
Feisty, other than shallow, grade school insults and snarky comments, do have anything of substance, intelligence, or critical thinking to add?
Jersy girl is just not the brightest light in the kitchen. She really should stop posting, she is just toooo silly.
Yepper, no "DEAL" in sight when the Progressives only want to talk about TAX INCREASES and nothing else.
Yepper, Progressive agenda:
Tax + Spend + redistribute and a LOT of Progressive Cabinet Members new regulations.
Yepper, I really like the new DOE regulation putting homeowners near streams out of their home because they are contributing to bad water quality.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like FLYeisty is back after making a run on Twinkies to replace her stale popcorn. Pssssst, don't spend all your Obama/Media Matters/MoveOn campaign money on those Non-Fat treats.
No Redhead the most ineffective Speaker for America was prune faced Nancy...
MSNBC the chart was source from the CBO - nice unbiased reporting!!! I also like how you totally missed the point on the big red area above the Obama blue sliver of a line solution...
Get Real........"No Redhead the most ineffective Speaker for America was prune faced Nancy..."
You got that right. And she was the FIRST Progressive crying like a baby to get out of Washington to be home for CHRISTmas.
Yep, her "one liners" says it all:
"TIME TO CLEAN THE SWAMP" and start with Senator "Pocket Veto" Reid.
Either way..Stop the over the cliff game or go with it....T baggers will try to get rid of Boner....and he will come on national tv and cry...whether they replace him or not......Boo hoo....I am trying to do what is right for my country...I can see it now....
Don't know much about this cliff stuff, but glad the democrat party has the upper hand. I like the way it spends money and gives it to people so they will contine to lap the gravy from the bowl. Solutions to minor problems like 20 Trillion national debt by 2016 does not distract Dem party leaders from focusing on important things like making sure gays can marry and people can abort when they decide to be irresponsible. Getting those people with all that money is the only thing that needs to be done. Hopefully, the Dem party will stay in power so I don't have to work or take care of my family. Hope this type of leadership goes on forever so I can lap the gravy bowl and mock and ridicule republicans for trying to lead our country in a direction that might force me to be accountable for myself.
And the plan the republicons have .....is not to have a plan, cause the plan they planned, is not the plan the people planned on having, when they voted in the last election. So the plan the people planned, is still not the plan, the republicons planned, because the republicons planned, not to change the plan, they don't have planned!
House Speaker John Boehner what the problem give Obama his Tax increase proposal. Don't forget the rich only count to 1 or 2% Obama has 51% of the vote and the remainder 46% that voted Republican. So give him what he want it's only fair.
RedDevPS
No....Obama has the monopoly on giving away 'free stuff' -- it's how he's spent more in 4 years than any other President!
truth_teller-1307642
Ummm. truth...the cuts proposed have been on the table for OVER 1000 DAYS!!! Get a clue...
GOP BUDGET CUT LIST
Flood Control and Coastal Emergencies -$30M • Energy Efficiency and Renewable
Energy -$899M • Electricity Delivery and Energy Reliability -$49M • Nuclear
Energy -$169M • Fossil Energy Research -$31M • Clean Coal Technology -$18M •
Strategic Petroleum Reserve -$15M • Energy Information Administration -$34M •
Office of Science -$1.1B • Power Marketing Administrations -$52M • Department
of Treasury -$268M • Internal Revenue Service -$593M • Treasury Forfeiture Fund
-$338M • GSA Federal Buildings Fund -$1.7B • ONDCP -$69M • International Trade
Administration -$93M • Economic Development Assistance -$16M • Minority
Business Development Agency -$2M • National Institute of Standards and
Technology -$186M • NOAA -$336M • National Drug Intelligence Center -$11M • Law
Enforcement Wireless Communications -$52M • US Marshals Service -$10M • FBI
-$74M • State and Local Law Enforcement Assistance -$256M • Juvenile Justice
-$2.3M • COPS -$600M • NASA -$379M • NSF -$139M • Legal Services Corporation
-$75M • EPA -$1.6B • Food Safety and Inspection Services -$53M • Farm Service
Agency -$201M • Agriculture Research -$246M • Natural Resource Conservation
Service -$46M • Rural Development Programs -$237M • WIC -$758M • International
Food Aid grants -$544M • FDA -$220M • Land and Water Conservation Fund -$348M •
National Archives and Record Service -$20M • DOE Loan Guarantee Authority
-$1.4B • EPA ENERGY STAR -$7.4M • EPA GHG Reporting Registry -$9M • USGS -$27M
• EPA Cap and Trade Technical Assistance -$5M • EPA State and Local Air Quality
Management -$25M • Fish and Wildlife Service -$72M • Smithsonian -$7.3M •
National Park Service -$51M • Clean Water State Revolving Fund -$700M •
Drinking Water State Revolving Fund -$250M • EPA Brownfields -$48M • Forest
Service -$38M • National Endowment for the Arts -$6M • National Endowment for
the Humanities -$6M • Job Training Programs -$2B • Community Health Centers
-$1.3B • Maternal and Child Health Block Grants -$210M • Family Planning -$327M
• Poison Control Centers -$27M • CDC -$755M • NIH -$1B • Substance Abuse and
Mental Health Services -$96M • LIHEAP Contingency fund -$400M • Community
Services Block Grant -$405M • High Speed Rail -$1B • FAA Next Gen -$234M •
Amtrak -$224M • HUD Community Development Fund -$530M
WAKE UP....YOU ARE BEING MANIPULATED.
snosprt10
the Waltons built a $370+ million museum...how many workers did they have to force to work off the clock to pay for that?
Is anyone really SURPRISED, there is now way the the Republicans are ever going to come around..... Mr President please Sequester Congress, do not allow any House or Senate member to go home until the issue is resolved.....
justoneguy
you guys keep talking about this free stuff..where can I get my free stuff?
But seriously, thanks for the list which proves what we already know: keep feeding the defense budget to make the Cheneys happy and keep protecting the wealthy while cutting everything from SS to Medicare to agencies that regulate..we all know that businesses can regulate themselves - prime example: 2008 Financial Meltdown.
I also "like" cuts to (few as examples):
State and Local Law Enforcement Assistance - who needs police officers and/or who gives a f*ck about their needs?
Food Safety and Inspection Services - who needs to check crap that comes from China?
Minority Business Development Agency -minorities don't vote for Republicans anyways so cut them
yeah, as long as the rich keep paying less in taxes than the Middle Class, the Repubs are happy.
Hey tell me, why did Romney have to manipulate his 2011 tax rate to make himself look like he pays more than he actually does? Can you answer that one? Is Romney stupid or did he fake his taxes on purpose? Which one because there is no answer 3.
chuckzul (or chucky),
Actually Feisty keeps us intelligent sorts laughing at you neo-con fools. Which in turn keeps us from stooping to the "conservative" level of name-calling, swearing and flat out lying our asses off. And this helps us from NOT getting banned by the Newsvine monitors. See how it works? Feisty is very important here! lol
mucho thanks bayllie....FINALLY - moving BEYOND the fiction of NO PROPOSED TAX CUTS to argueing WHAT TAX CUTS!!! whew....what a relief....
PS..."The Cheneys" you are a hoot....one stupid family in a Nation of millions and THAT'S the one to focus on.....rofl
Hey, kaybeetoys, Obama blubbered all over the place after being reelected; do you also call him "the Weeper", or are liberals and Dems exempt from your keen sarcastic wit?
Wow, these Republicans are really circling the drain now. Even after the drubbing they got in the recent elections they still don't seem to get the idea that the people want pols who will represent the masses, not just billionaires and corporations. Raising the tax rate a bit on these "job creators" (creating jobs in India, that is) is not going to hurt them and will raise tons of revenue. I like the idea that we've got a President that favors the middle class over rich ingrates.
Caesar Augustus-
"not everyone can be born as perfect as King Obama the Wise. All HAIL!"
What happened Sleazer? Obama go gettin' all uppity with ya again? Your true "colors" come shining right through you poor down-trodden feller. He's your president, until you leave. Learn to be an American.
Ido, Sorry but progressives don't want to cut entitlements, like my parents Social Security COLA, or the Medicare I'll be eligable for in five years, or push back the age at which my kids will be able to retire. Nor do we want to cut deductions like mortgage interest on middle class homes, or earned income credit. Only those that love the rich and hate working people want to do those things.
Progressives want to cut defense spending to save money and reduce the deficit. Since we don't want to make your cuts, we don't need to say which cuts need to be made. If your buddy Boehner wants to make the cuts, then he needs to write down exactly which cuts and how much, so he and the Republicans can own them. We already own the revenue increase from letting the tax cuts expire. Now it's you and Boehner's turn. You want the cuts, you name the cuts.
Who is Boehner trying to fool? In his speech he tries to come across as a champion of small businesses. The Republican party has never backed small businesses, their bread and butter are large corporations, like the Sands Casino owner who bet millions on Romney in the hopes that he would soon only be paying .98% in income taxes on his billions. Many small businesses went under because of the Republicans, they couldn't compete against the large corporations who sent jobs overseas while getting their tax breaks that were given to them with the idea that those multi-millionaires and billionaires would create jobs - they did, only NOT in the USA! The US economy IS the American people, not a bunch of fat billionaires making money by exploiting cheap labor overseas. Who cares if they have so much money if the bulk of Americans can't afford to purchase their expensive cheap crap made in China! The republicans have sold out the American people time and time again. They don't include the more than $4 trillion that Congress has "borrowed" (some would say stole) from the Social Security trust fund over the years as a part of the debt because they're hoping to crush Social Security and never pay that money back! Instead of that $4 trillion dollars going to people who desperately need it, it instead went to projects to benefit the wealthy, because they can always use billions of dollars they need never pay back to the American people. We have a government run by the rich, for the rich who only desire is to take from the working Americans or the retired and give to themselves.
"spider"...there's a huge difference between the sincere show of gratitude from President Obama and the the uncontrolled outbursts of the maudlin, drunk Boehner.
The President shows the proper emotion when it is appropriate. Boehner loses it every time he gets too drunk to control his last three brain cells. I'm not surprised that you can not tell the difference, "spider".
Look Boehner give the President what he wants and he will fix the mess you Republicans made just like Clinton fixed the last mess you people made. And I too Mr President would make the leaders stay until they fix the problems they have in front of them. The American people expect you leaders to do your job and by going home for the holidays with this mess on the table isn't doing your job. The world is watching what you are going to do with the Fiscal Cliff and you have no right to go home at this point in history. History is recording the Hog Republican names who won't raise the taxes on the 2 %. History will record your names if you hurt Medicare or Social Security. Your families will be branded for the rotten leader you were.
truedat-3874449
Wow, these Republicans are really circling the drain now. Even after the drubbing they got in the recent elections they still don't seem to get the idea that the people want pols who will represent the masses, not just billionaires and corporations
OMG....Ha ha ha ha so idiotic....truedat-3874449 thinks EVERY rich BILLIONARE (lol. lol lol) is a Republican.
I don't know about wishing Boehner out Feisty, because, who are they going to put in his place? I shudder to think! I'd be surprised if he can deliver a vote until after January 3rd and he still has the mallet, er, gavel. So we go over the curb and then try to fix things. Boehner is probably more moderate than any likely replacement Speaker as to what could see a vote in the House in early '13.
Why they won't just vote for the Senate extension now underscores what you say about their record of dysfunction. With their Party Image already in the toilet, they publicly shoot themselves with this refusal for no other reason than their own stubborn incompetence. "Mm... Proceeeed."
justoneguy
whoever you argued about "no tax cuts" was not me...I know Boner and the Republicans want to cut everything that benefits the little people to pay for the tax cuts for the beloved 2%
Heck, they were willing to throw the 9/11 First Responders under the bus in 2010 if they didn't get their tax cuts for the 2% extended.
I suggest you learn to understand what you read in people's posts or learn to address correct posters. Again, where did I say that the Repubs did not propose tax cuts???Please point that out.
Dick "Deficits Don't Matter" Cheney is a symbol of greed, and willingness to send Americans to war because of his financial and personal agenda so sorry, if the name heney is not "just" one stupid family. People elected that SoB as he VP. He is a disgusting, greedy, ruthless excuse for a human being who made more money because of the wars than you will ever see in your lifetime.
I do find it interesting that you focus on the name Cheney while ignoring my question about Romney's reason to manipulate his tax returns? not interested in explaining why the Republican presidential candidate had to fake the only 1 of 2 tax returns he was willing to show? Again, was Romney stupid for overpaying or did he manipulate his rate to fit his agenda?
Bob Woodward says the Democrats are in a “Civil War,” Obama is the Key Player & needs to show “Coherent Leadership” on the Fiscal Cliff.
What a hypocrite!
On 06/28/2002 Congressman John Bohener voted to massively increase government spending with his Yes vote on the Medicare Modernization and Prescription Drug Act which authorized $350 billion in spending for the Medicare program.
On 5/23/2001 Boehner sponsored the No Child Left Behind bill. It authorized an increase in overall education spending to nearly $23 billion for fiscal year 2002, and about $135 billion over the 2002-2006 period.”
Database searches revealed no demands from the four legislators that debt increases come accompanied by drastic spending cuts, as there are now. In fact, the May 2003 debt limit increase passed the Senate the same day as the $350 billion Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
Why stop at 2007 EE? - love to see the rest! Dare ya to print it without making your head explode. It makes 2007 look like a cakewalk. And ya, if 'Congress' approved any spending increases AFTER 2007...looks like they were trying to work with Mr. Big Spender Obama.
Good Grief.
Speaker Boehner was recently seen spewing this:
""I'm not concerned about my job as speaker," he said. "What I'm concerned about is doing the right things for our kids and grandkids.""
Whose kids is he talking about? The top 2% of America's kids? Why not go ahead and pass the Senate bill granting tax cuts to the 98% of Americans that have relied on them in the recession?
I'm getting to the point that I hope we go over the cliff. I'll pay the extra taxes, even though I'm in the low brackets; as long as we begin trimming our bloated military spending and tax reform kills the loopholes that the rich are so fond of.
This didn't start out as class warfare, however the Republicans are making it exactly about that, as they entrench and refuse to raise rates on the rich.
It may soon be time to take back our government, especially if it becomes a government by and for the 2%.
Paraphrasing Bush1 to describe the current GOP conundrum: 'No new taxes = no new voters'....
GOPigs Wishes the 1% Merry X-Mass !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only Congress should decide our debt ceiling. The president's blank check request needs a resounding no from Congress.
We are in our fifth straight year of trillion dollar annual deficits, and the president believes that - despite the constitution - the power of deciding how much more debt the government can accumulate belongs to him instead of Congress.
Washington has forgotten how to live within a budget.
The people in your state and mine elected the members of Congress, not an Electoral Collage.
More than 24 months after Bowles-Simpson.
During that time, Republicans have argued for spending cuts over the next decade, but still refuse to name any they support. If they can't name what they want, shouldn't the media call them out.
At least Obama has said what his two demands are. He campaigned on it for over a year.
1) Do not raise taxes on anyone not in the lower two income brackets.
2) Raise taxes on everyone in the top two income brackets.
Notice, Obama is kind enough that even those in the top two tax brackets continue to receive a tax break on every penny they earn up to $200K for individuals and $250K for couples.
Make the Republicans go on record saying what they demand for spending cuts or tell them to agree to the Presidents.
Time to cut defense spending and other corporate giveaways that are the real factors leading to this fiscal cliff.
You should be specific and state that he does not want to raise "income" taxes. He is already applying multiple taxes associated with Obamacare.
@Pigotry
Can you back this up? What is the actual cost of "corporate giveaways"? I heard about the $2B - $4B that goes to the oil industry. If we only have to find $4B per industry that's not much of a cliff. However, what subsidies do you want to end?
Of course we could remove the incentives for green enrgy as they are much higher than oil and we would save much more
I believe the Senate just pass a $631B defense budget 98-0, so I guess that's the amount all parties are happy to spend. How do you propose to cut a budget that passed 98-0?
So what are your sources to back up your claim?
And his cuts are??????
Piggy, how many millions of tax dollars went to failed green energy jobs? I think the American people as a whole could have found better ways to have spent that money to improve their homes at a cost far less.
I say lets, let it happen....
F-22s - just one item, $100 billion wasted....these F22s have never seen action...there had been a plan to use them in Afghan war, but due to unresolved technical failures, F22s never see action in Afghan war in the last 10 years.
.
Many many other super doper contracts given to lazy corporations and weapons manufacturers - gone wasted.
And this was formally proposed where???
Sounds like this is a cut you would like to see...I don't recall it being put on the table.......
JERSY GIRL 1-
Failed? Pray tell.
Please, go on....
Salud
Hey....Maybe he can put embassy security cuts on the table.......
Debbie, agreed. Republicans have only made talking points and put forth ziltch in details. Repubs fail to realize that the programs they deem as so called "entitlements," are programs American tax payers invested in. Americans who comprise the 97 or 98% of the population who haven't evaded paying their fair share. Americans who by comparison pay the higher percentage of taxes based on their earned income. Some Repubs have chosen to take their ideas to the public for vetting. Like Sen. Rand Paul, Congressmen Paul Brown or Louis Gohmert TeaPubs apparently missed the election outcome. Mr. Brown made public he wants to eliminate the Dept. of Education, Commerce and the EPA for starters. Mr. Rand Paul announced he will not consider a bill unless it cuts all spending. Note the departments slated for elimination and where most Americans stand on the food chain.
My comments #2.7 is for Alan NJ comment #2.3
In addition, more details on corporate welfare
1. One bailout to AIG in 2008 (Bush was pres.) $150 billion is worth all the government help to the poor from 1990 to 2005.
2. When Bush's medicare prescription drug benefits law passed 2003, the pharmaceutical lobbyists secured many billions of dollars of corporate welfare when they guaranteed that the federal government (the largest buyer of prescription drugs) couldn't negotiate drug prices, not only giving corporate welfare to pharmaceuticals that really don't need such giveaways, but also adding more to the debt and deficit. This giveaways also make Medicare more costly, adding fuel to GOP argument about runaway costs of Medicare. If so, the GOP caused them, GOP's corporate lobbyists and donors caused it. This is just one example. Too many such giveaways by Congress to corporations - nobody is really there counting
Piggy,
On the point of the F-22's. Even though the F-22's have never been used in combat, there are real live people who maintain them, fly them, re-fuel them, etc. Get rid of the F-22's and you get rid of a LOT of people (mostly military) with them. I don't think they would like being RIFed a whole lot.
No F'n Redhead the worst Speaker ever for America was prune faced Nancy P.
Nice reporting MSNBC, the chart was sourced from the CBO's data - you just naturally bias things. BTW you also missed the fundimental obsrevation of the data - that big red area is the problem that Obama thin blue line doesn't address the bubble facing us. The CBO has been reporting that fact for weeks and the lideral press keeps ignoring reality...
chuckzul
Piggy,
On the point of the F-22's. Even though the F-22's have never been used in combat, there are real live people who maintain them, fly them, re-fuel them, etc. Get rid of the F-22's and you get rid of a LOT of people (mostly military) with them. I don't think they would like being RIFed a whole lot.
----
Are you suggesting someone does like getting RIF'd?
Are you suggesting it is okay to keep spending wasteful amounts on a plane the pilots are afraid to fly because we need to keep the people who fuel it employed?
Debbie-525743
AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN UNTIL YOU GET IT TO YOUR BRAIN THAT YOU ARE BEING MANIPULATED.
GOP BUDGET CUT LIST
Flood Control and Coastal Emergencies -$30M • Energy Efficiency and Renewable
Energy -$899M • Electricity Delivery and Energy Reliability -$49M • Nuclear
Energy -$169M • Fossil Energy Research -$31M • Clean Coal Technology -$18M •
Strategic Petroleum Reserve -$15M • Energy Information Administration -$34M •
Office of Science -$1.1B • Power Marketing Administrations -$52M • Department
of Treasury -$268M • Internal Revenue Service -$593M • Treasury Forfeiture Fund
-$338M • GSA Federal Buildings Fund -$1.7B • ONDCP -$69M • International Trade
Administration -$93M • Economic Development Assistance -$16M • Minority
Business Development Agency -$2M • National Institute of Standards and
Technology -$186M • NOAA -$336M • National Drug Intelligence Center -$11M • Law
Enforcement Wireless Communications -$52M • US Marshals Service -$10M • FBI
-$74M • State and Local Law Enforcement Assistance -$256M • Juvenile Justice
-$2.3M • COPS -$600M • NASA -$379M • NSF -$139M • Legal Services Corporation
-$75M • EPA -$1.6B • Food Safety and Inspection Services -$53M • Farm Service
Agency -$201M • Agriculture Research -$246M • Natural Resource Conservation
Service -$46M • Rural Development Programs -$237M • WIC -$758M • International
Food Aid grants -$544M • FDA -$220M • Land and Water Conservation Fund -$348M •
National Archives and Record Service -$20M • DOE Loan Guarantee Authority
-$1.4B • EPA ENERGY STAR -$7.4M • EPA GHG Reporting Registry -$9M • USGS -$27M
• EPA Cap and Trade Technical Assistance -$5M • EPA State and Local Air Quality
Management -$25M • Fish and Wildlife Service -$72M • Smithsonian -$7.3M •
National Park Service -$51M • Clean Water State Revolving Fund -$700M •
Drinking Water State Revolving Fund -$250M • EPA Brownfields -$48M • Forest
Service -$38M • National Endowment for the Arts -$6M • National Endowment for
the Humanities -$6M • Job Training Programs -$2B • Community Health Centers
-$1.3B • Maternal and Child Health Block Grants -$210M • Family Planning -$327M
• Poison Control Centers -$27M • CDC -$755M • NIH -$1B • Substance Abuse and
Mental Health Services -$96M • LIHEAP Contingency fund -$400M • Community
Services Block Grant -$405M • High Speed Rail -$1B • FAA Next Gen -$234M •
Amtrak -$224M • HUD Community Development Fund -$530M
WAKE UP....YOU ARE BEING MANIPULATED.
Care to name those multiple taxes that we are incurring?
As long as the Grim Weeper calls for a full extension of the Bush tax cuts, he is not being serious. Why do seniors on Medicare have to pick up the tab for the Bush tax cuts?
Al ...
He seems to be the only one that wants them! His oath stands in the way of his party! 61% of Republicans are on board with the President's plan. Talk about a Boehner Bubble!
Not 61% in the House !
I know Jim, 61% of Republicans polled about the fiscal cliff. Have they voted in the House? Are the House Republicans listening to their voicemail? Reading their e-mail? Talking to their constituents? Or are they sitting with their fingers in their ears saying "I ran on no new taxes and I can't change that now" and tapping their heels together?
If the republicans don't stick with the party, they won't get support from the GOP the next time they come up for re-election. It doesn't really matter what the people want. They have been supporting the super rich and wanting to get rid of Medicare and Social Security for 30 years.
JimS ...
I so wish it did! The eternal optimist in me continues to hope one day it will . . .
I really think that the only people checking for daily progress on "the fiscal cliff" is the media. I do think most of us in the real world understand the proverb "A watched pot never boils"
I'm sure those in the media will quickly jump in and say how the fiscal cliff affects YOU and we need to be made aware but really?...
Actually Boehner and the republicans who would rather protect the top 2% instead of the bottom 98%. As far as they are concerned, the country can go into default or a recession or a depression, as long as the top 2% are doing OK, the republicans are happy.
Boehner isn't worried about the top 2%, he is worried about the unending spending and the deficit. He is worried about all of us having jobs.
Yeah and I've got a bridge I'll sell you.
Jersy, if that were true, this matter would have been fixed long ago.
Spending is decided in the house, it's their job to start those bills.
Thanks for the hearty belly-laugh, "jersey". The sad thing is, I actually think you might believe it!!
I have an idea, "jersey" - why don't you and your teabagging friends go on over to Iraq and collect on those oil revenues that your "responsible Republicans" promised would pay for the war?
Why didn't your drinker of the House care about unending spending and the deficit from 2001-2007? They ran up the bill and now they don't want to pay for it. People with a sense of morality have a word for you and your little party....Deadbeats.
Jersey= I am being serious, what planet are you from? If Boehner doesn't have a problem with the top 2% then just agree with raising taxes on the wealthy. All Boehner has to do is get off that one point and the train begins to move. Are you there Jersey?? All he has to do is agree to raise taxes on the top 2%. Give him a call and tell him to do it Jersey. That one item and things begin to happen.
Republicans out in 2014
I find it hard to believe that the only programs that need to be cut are SS and Medicare. I think the leaders on both sides need to sit down with the budget and see where cuts can be made. As mentioned in previous posts, how about defense, corporate subsidies; farm subsidies (only those truly deserving, not the millionaires who own land but aren't farmers); pork barrel projects that serve only a few citizens, but cost us all, etc. I have worked since I was 13 years old; I have made in to SS and Medicare for almost 50 years; now I have to worry about cuts to those programs. I have no intention of retiring early and have other retirement income in place; but I want to know that those programs are still options. Who knows what might happen in the next few years; plus my husband is the age that maybe affected by raising the age limit.
Why shouldn't the rich be taxed at a more appropriate rate? Facts show what group has benefitted the most from the fiscal policies since Reagan. It's time to make up for those years.
Donna - and what is really telling is that many of the top 2% have said they have no problem paying higher taxes - that it's time to have them raised on the rich. But, Grover says no so the Republicans in the House are sticking firm. It will be to their own demise!
I'm pretty sure the repubs have already said they are open for more tax revenue from the rich but want cuts to go along with it. Sounds fair to me.
ozzieyo1- unfortunately Boehner and Cantor didn't get the memo. They are digging in on no tax increases for the top 2% - only want cuts and closing loopholes. They have no reason to their arguments since those affected have said they have no problem paying more taxes. But, Grover says NO so they won't budge!
Seeking they are digging in to not giving in unless tax cuts are also on the table. This needs to go hand in hand. Obama has already shown he will lie to get what he wants and then renege on promises.
BS
JERSY GIRL - again you get dumber with each post. The cuts have been proposed - Boehner just doesn't like them and he has to stay in line or Norquist will discipline him! Try to keep up!
BS
I'm pretty sure I heard them say they are open to raising revenue as long as there is meaningful cuts to go along with it. What's the problem with that?
ozzieyo1-7277359
Nothing, and they have been put on the table. The stinky problem is how many asses including his own can Boehner save.
Can you tell me what they are because I haven't heard of any meaningful cuts offered up by the President.
OK ... let's play, and the revenue increases Boehner offers are exactly what? Which loopholes?
And actually... exactly WHAT cuts does the house leadership propose...
The white house responded to that days ago. The spending cuts are on pages 17 though 24. And the details of the proposals from both sides have not been made public. But the republicans continue to say that they will not accept a rate increase on the super rich.
Ozzie, I haven't heard of any cuts at all offered up by Boehner. If he wants some cuts so badly, why doesn't he submit a list of cuts he finds acceptable?
Sequestration was passed into law by the current administration and congress because they couldn't find any "specific" tax increases or spending cuts that could be agreed upon by those involved.
I think they should pass a law quadrupling the amount of the current sequestration so they would have a reason to reach an agreement on the fiscal cliff before Jan. 1...and then just keep on posturing through the end of the year...
I actually think going over the fiscal speed bump, would be preferable to anything the House Republicans would pass. I have no problem with going back to paying Clinton Tax rates, myself. Then we can go after those loopholes and subsidies.
John get it over already, so the Press will stop calling this like a SPORTING BOXING MATCH instead of the Seriousness that it is.
This is for the Economic Health of the Country and yet Republicans still Cheated their way into Controlling the House with Gerrymandering their Districts and squeezing Democratic Districts.
The Voters can thank themselves for this Mess on their LOW INFORMATION of How the Republicans are doing a lot of Damage to Faith and Credit of U. S. A. on Ideology, IGNORANCE, HATE, And a Pledge to a Grover Nordquist by Voting these people back in AGAINST THEIR OWN ECONOMIC WELL-BEING.
Boehner is LOOKING WORST THAN NEWT if that is possible but he is pulling it off. The 1% knows that the Republicans are WRONG, but they are sitting back and still hope it goes their way at the expense of the WHOLE COUNTRY.
The Press is the real culprit in all of this because they will not report how the Republicans are no longer a Party that really cares about the Country and the RADICALIZATION of the Party.
The real question here is who will the Repubs find to willingly replace Mr. B and contine the process of leading all of those fine T-lemmings over the cliff. The "Party of No" had better find a way to turn themselves in the "Party of No Don't Jump" pretty darn quick or they will be going the way of the Whigs and other irrelevant parties from our history.
Obama and the Dems have so far been unwilling to identify spending cuts to couple with an increase in tax revenue. Democrats remain the party of "tax and spend". We cannot grow our way or tax our way out of our current debt problem. The major part of getting our federal government onto a sustainable financial course must be spending cuts, it is the only way the numbers work.
So, Exactly what cuts have the republicans put on the board??
i also think there's an element of convenience to this argument. repubs can't have it both ways... sometimes it's the presidents fault for not offering anything up... other times it's his fault because it's supposed to be congresses job to come up with the budget proposals.
i get dizzy when republicans argue with democrats. can ya'll please have a meeting and agree on what you want to disagree with everyone else about? please!? PLEASE!?
Jersy, I am very familiar with how the business world works; I even taught college economics for many years, so I am pretty familiar with how the economy works. I know for a fact that "trickle down economics" does not create wealth equally. Look at the facts; the gap between employees and employers has widened since Reagan put his economic policies into effect. I also know that when the other 3 sectors of the economy are not driving aggregate demand, then the governement needs to step in and pick up the slack. Thus, resulting in some increase in government spending. However, increasing aggregate demand will drive the supply side, which will result in more jobs and economic growth. Simple enough for you there?
Donna, where did you teach? Moscow?
Who said that 'trickle down economics' produces wealth equality? As an Economics teacher(Professor?) you should know that wealth equality is IMPOSSIBLE!!
Donna - Jersy Girl knows nothing about economics and has little knowledge of anything relevant.
ozzieyo1- clearly Donna taught at a school far above your ability to enter.
slodon - "trickle down" was supposed to be the answer for all of our economic problems - according to Regan - but has never ONCE worked!
Donna -
Well them that can get the job done do it and them that can't teach...
So, ozzie, because you don't understand what Donna has explained, your only recourse is to malign her professional knowledge of what is going on? Whether you wish to believe it or not, trickle down economics does not work. Donna is also very correct that the gap between the top earners and the middle class earners has grown and will continue to grow if we don't stop this. Everyone, well almost everyone(you pesky Conservatives just need a little class in economics) knows that if you have a "healthy" middle class, who are the drivers of the economy, then everyone does better. That has not been happening since even as far back as the late 1970's. Wages for the middle class have been stagnant for the last two decades, while the top 2% in wealth has continued to climb. Much more to add, but as I am not a professional I will leave the rest up to those who have a much better fix on this current situation.
Hey, smart alec Dee: Did it ever occur to you that SOMEONE had to have taught those that "do" in order for it to get done? Have something against teachers?
Seeking, it just amazes me that all liberals pick the one sector of the ecomony that needs to remain the same or decrease (spending wise). Why does Government have to pick up the slack in the economy why not put policies in place that will increase investment, consumer consumption or net exports instead of using redistrubution of wealth to perk up the economy? Something like lower taxes would help all of those sectors.
AG, see above goof.
ozzieyo1- so lower tax rates over the last 12 years have helped, how????? See, your agrument has no legs - never has. We have had higher rates and a better economy in the past. And, those in the top 2% disagree with you so what exactly is your problem again? The heads of Northrup, Fed EX, etc., say it is long past time for taxes on the wealthiest to be increased. And, they say it will absolutely make NO DIFFERENCE in their hiring practices. They are all for the the increase. Your point again???
We can take those funds and do infrastructure projects which are badly needed. It increases employment and is good for the country overall. Again, what don't you get?????
Dee Ten - and many people do both - teach and work. My guess is you're not smart enough to do either!
It hasn't hurt that's for sure but what I'm saying is why count on the government part of the equation to stimulate the economy why not put policies in place to help the other sectors. Why do we need high tax rates why not have good policies that promote growth in the sectors that matter.
SeekingSanity -
You need to keep "seeking" because you're not "sane" yet...
Dee Ten
I am waiting for a 'great minds think alike' idiot to come along who will give some additional substance to this opinion.
AlaskaGirl -
"Did it ever occur to you that SOMEONE had to have taught those that "do" in order for it to get done? Have something against teachers?"
Did it ever occur to you that someone had to figure out how to do something before it could be written in a text book? What teacher taught computer science so that computers and programming could be invented? Why did Bill Gates and Steve Jobs drop out of school?
One can achieve an excellent education despite the teachers. Teachers just parrot what is in the textbooks...
Dee Ten
No, only bad teachers do that. You seem to ignore the amount of research that goes on in universities. You can also be sure that the teckies who worked for Gates and Jobs came out of universities.
Dee Ten - as I say often, seeking sanity in the GOP but morons like you prove daily there is absolutely NONE to be found - just abject stupidity! What a total idiot your post shows you to be! Let me guess, homeschooling your kids? Poor children!
SeekingSanity -
"as I say often, seeking sanity"
Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome is the mark of an insane person. You need some mental health care...
The Republican Party's image shouldn't be tarnished only by their belligerence and failing to honestly negotiate to avoid the Fiscal Cliff catastrophe, that is their typical obnoxious and irresponsible behavior that always puts their political ambitions and serving only "the money", their masters, above all else, at any cost to the people. Their stubborn and arrogant, self-serving behavior is what got us to this point and is what consistantly allows exploitation by the few that always sees the few walking away with substantial gains while leaving the costs/losses to the majority, rationalized as "conservative" and covered by propaganda to con the people and manipulate public opinion. Lets get the deficit and government spending under control but not at the cost of ignoring the real cause of our problems and then allowing a return to "more of the same", which can only result in "more of the same". Honest "conservative" policies are all well and good but not as camoflage to cover "puppet" politicians catering to "the money", their strong supporters and masters, who just constantly feed their insatiable "more" (never enough) appetite and greatly cost the country and the majority in the process. Everyone of our drastic problems can be directly traced to those actions and believing the propaganda that "big government" (while controlling spending and reducing the deficit are definate plusses) is at fault is just falling into the trap of being deceived and used.
It's pretty clear what's going on here. The cuts the Republicans want are not going to be popular - they don't want defense and corporate subsidy cuts, they want to see cuts to Medicare, Social Security, and other social programs. But they don't want to take the blame for those ideas. So they keep asking for proposals from Obama. If his proposal doesn't include what they want, they say he's not being serious. If it does include what they want, then they get to say it was Obama's idea. Meanwhile, their own proposals continue to be intentionally vague on exactly what loopholes they plan to eliminate and what programs they plan to cut. Obama has played this game before, and he's not going to negotiate with himself again.
Unless Medicare and Medicaid get restructured with people paying more for less Medicare benefits, we cannot solve the financial problems the country faces. The unfunded liability for Medicare alone is now over $30 trillion. Social Security can be kept solvent by some modest changes similar to those made in the early 1980s. Either we fix these problems or Medicare and Medicaid will cease to exist and SS benefits will eventually get cut back. There is not enough money available to pay for them long term as they current exist. The sooner we make the necessary changes to these programs, the less draconian the solutions will be.
It all BS, they only thing they fear is us going off the cliff and we realize it was all BS.
God forbid we go back to normal tax rates and cut the DoD budget. The world will end if we spend less on the military, but still more than every other nation combined. Give me the cliff, I'll pay more and the military is sucking the country dry with it's absurd budget.
My main issue is they seemed oblivious to the fact they they created the cliff, if it's so horrible and so game ending, why did Congress create it in the first place ? Right, it's all theatrics for the media fed Nation that loves to feel like it some critical moment in time where the future will be determined.
Speaking of Congress, I love how they all act like these budgets and deficits are someone else's fault, too god damn stupid to realize Congress is to blame for all of it, they control it, no one else votes on any of it. And while some of the freshmen/women may get a pass, the ones out front and center, are veterans are have voted for decades on these matters. Yet, not one can take any responsibility.
Scott
So you're blaming the Democrat controlled Congress and Senate for the 2007-2009 Great Recession?
In a recent interview Erskin Bowles, the Democrat Obama chose to co-lead the deficit reduction commission, commented that for many decades voters have counted on their representatives in Congress to “bring home the bacon.” He then added that “the pig is dead”.
If you want to know who is to blame for our economic problems, look in the mirror.
slodon, how you got that from my post, I will never know. But if you think that a lack of regulation is mostly responsible, I agree and ultimately that falls on Congress as well. But that is more of a hypothetical, the budget and spending isn't, that is factual.
Peter, if you think Pork has anything to do with this conversation you clearly don't now the numbers, pork is such a small amount of the budget, it's hardly worthy of noting. I know, but John McCain told you.... And in case someone locked you in a closet, Bowles is not a Democrat, noris he someone the left agrees with, as you are inferring.
My mirror is clear of people to blame, raise my taxes. I have no problem with that, and anyone with a lick of sense knows raising taxes would solve just about every financial woe we have. For industrialized nations, Americans by far, pay less taxes, yet expect many of the same services, and in regards to the military, we expect a military 10 larger than we will ever need.\
Let's go back to the rates when we had a surplus.
I would be willing to go back to those rates if we could also go back to that level of spending...
scott- the only thing i'm having a hard time with is the military budget you're talking about. last i heard the joint chiefs were trying to get LESS money for a smaller more effective military? is this not correct?
i thought the repubs were just ignoring what the J-chiefs were saying while OBAMA was trying to actually DO what they were saying.... yes/no?
Where is the little weasel Harry Reid? Where are the democratic senate majority on the fiscal cliff? The senate is suppose to take the long view on the viability of any laws passed...is Harry Reid just too senile to run the Senate?
Harry Reid is President Obama's puppet so if you do hear from him it will only be the Presidents talking points and proposals.
The republican party have become economic terrorist. Since the debt fight in 2011 when they took us to the brink and cost the USA to loose our credit rating. Now they have no conscience to have regard for 98% of Americans. The will sell all of America down in default if we don't give the radicals what they want. They say the President didn't give them details. 14 pages of details isn't enough for them. It was better that 2 pages from Boehner. Who isn't serious the Republican party. If something isn't done to control the radicals and the Koch brothers buying state legislatures, We won't even recognize our country. The will make a tea public.
I think the down grades are due to fiscal responsibility not raising the debt ceiling so get a clue will ya?
By John Detrixhe - Sep 11, 2012 1:27 PM CT Bloomberg.com
Senator Harkin said Fox news made up the fiscal cliff to scare people. I hope we go over and force the government to trim it's budget and manpower.
Boehner is up for election as Speaker Jan 3. Appears to me he is trying to hang onto his job more than anything else or he would GET OFF Social Security and Medicare. Social Security is not part of the debt at all. And Medicare needs to be worked on but that can not be done in a week or two. It does not help that Bush passed Medicare Plan D Prescription with NO MONEY to fund it. AND he passed another Bill that does not allow us to negotiate prices of drugs with the medical companies. There comes a time when you get darned tired of taking the heat for the Bush screw-ups.
What about cuts to Big Oil subsidies? What about Defense Cuts?
What about cuts in congress's pay?
holy hell AMEN grandpa!
The only way to reduce our deficit and get our debt under control is to cut waistful spending and reduce the size of government and for the economy to grow. People and businesses make the economy grow, not the federal government. The government's job is to govern and get out of the way in people's lives and let them use their freedom to fullfill their chosen functions in life. God designed us to be free, not equal. Freedom and equality are antithetical. Each one destroys the other. Equality cancels freedom and freedom ensure that people will be unequal due to each person's decisions for or against God's plan.
Hope we go over the cliff. Everyone needs to pay more in taxes. That said we need dramatic cuts in spending as well. We need defense cuts, as well as huge reforms in entitlements. They will just kick this down the road again. We are 16 trillion in debt, and they are talking about cuts to MORE DEBT people. They are not in any way talking about paying down our debt, all they are doing is saying we are going 1 trillion in debt each year and they want to limit it to 600 billion. WAKE UP
How much lower do the interest rates have to get for businesses to invest? Consumer spending has obviously been hit due to the economic mess of the Bush years. It's hard to compete in the import/export market. Here in America we do have higher production costs; but we also have those evil minimum wage laws, work safety regulations, environmental regulations, etc. Although, it would please the Republican party to do away with most of those. But I'll take made in America anyday over shoddy products from other nations. So yes, government does need to be responsible for moving the demand in this country.
I taught in Missouri at 2 different universities. I now work in the financial industry; but still like teaching economics part-time.
Why do you libs always say the economic mess of the Bush years what policies did he implement that harmed the economy?
b/c the stock market crash of 2008 was dued to bush policies of jacking 98% of americans so he can suck up to his buddies that are skating on thick ice while pushing the rest of americans to the thin part of the lake leaving them dangerously unprotected.
Donna--
As a business owner sitting on a pile of cash, I can tell you that the uncertainty is what is holding me back. I try to do the business planning 2-4 years out, and I do not even know what my taxes will be 3 weeks from now.
On the issue of Obamacare, we are discovering more and more fees, taxes, or charges with every rule they publish...so I cannot do a reasonable estimate of those costs for even next year, much less 2014 or 15.
So...it is safe to sit on money. That is what I will do until I have some certainty on what wil happen...
John, Nope i'm pretty sure the stock market crash was due to the housing crisis (worthless mortgages) from policies put in place by Bill Clinton. Ever hear of the Community Reinvestment Act or Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which exempted credit-default swaps from regulation.
Donna -
Teaching economics and knowing anything about economics is two entirely different things.
What does low interest rates have to do with business investment? Any successful business will use their own capital for investments...why pay out interest regardless of how low the rate???
"But I'll take made in America anyday over shoddy products from other nations." This arrogant statement coupled with this statement "It's hard to compete in the import/export market." proves you know nothing about economics.
I don't believe you ever taught at the university level and if you work in the financial industry you are probably an administrative assistant in the purchasing department...
ozzieyo1 -
Right on target with the Bill Clinton housing debacle!
justoutsideDC.... you just proved why trickle down economics will NEVER work... thank you thank you thank you
All you have to do is look at Boehner's face and it tells you he's not going to change his mind no matter what.
He's still against anything President Obama suggests just like before.
It's time to boot him and O'Connell out of office.
I agree let's kick all those people who won't change there minds out including President Obama.
Compromise is a two-way street. When you have one group saying it must include this or we will not approve and the other saying it must include that or we will not approve, you have two ineffective groups. Personally, it appears to me that the Republicans are making an attempt to reach common ground. If they were not, they would be doing the same as they have with the Health care repeals they voted on a number of times that they knew would never see the light-of-day once they got to the Senate. Instead of throwing un-passable bills through the house, they are meeting and attempting to work with the Democrats. Now, whether there is any real work being done, no one really knows because no specifics are going to come out until a deal is actually reached. My guess is there will be zingers on both sides and each will claim victory due to what the other was willing to compromise on. What really needs to happen at this point to really reunite the country, is both parties need to come together, determine an amiable solution, and walk to the podium shoulder-to-shoulder to announce their cooperation and agreed upon bill.
If they cannot reach a compromise, we as citizens should demand of our states to call a new constitutional convention. If we are too petty to seek compromise, then the house and senate should be dissolved and a Parliament put in its place. The President would become head of state only and the power be vested with a Prime Minister and cabinet who is appointed by the winning party in Parliament...modeled after the UK Parliament. You might not like to policy of the day, but at least SOMETHING would get done. This is absolutely ludicrous!
justoutsidedc...
As a business man, me thinks GREED is holding you back! I'm sure your thinking goes...it's unconscionable that the government should care about my little employee...I should have a right to treat him/her like the slave they are....I mean, if they get sick, let them die....
I am just holding off on any new investment. No new office space, keep using Office 2007, no company tablets, only small raises. We are keeping our PPO policy the same, we are still having a Christmas party, everyone is getting a holiday bonus.
It is just that the asanine policies of both sides make any type of planning impossible, so we are keeping the cash in the company bank account.
Peter -
Exactly why is a business responsible for an employee's health?
Peter, Dee--
I pay for insurance for my employees because it is a valuable tool in retaining talent and a skilled team.
justoutsidedc -
So you are not investing your cash because of uncertainty in the marketplace, but you provide insurance without any idea what the cost of insurance will be over the next 2 to 3 years...
I'm thinking maybe you own an air castle...
Dee--
We have been providing insurance for the last 16 years and will continue to do so. We are sitting on a boatload of cash rather than hiring more people or other investments because of uncertainty. Don't get me wrong, I would love to know rates three years out, especially with all of the Obamacare regulations falling into place. However, since nobody in the government can give a straight answer, I am holding onto the cash to be prepared for higher costs.
I have neither an air castle or any other form of bouncy house.