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Subscribe to RSSNBC/WSJ poll: GOP already goes off one cliff -- the image cliff… American public: We want compromise… But this also presents dilemma for White House: Does it bend over backwards to achieve compromise, or does it try to make the GOP cry “Uncle”?... Who gets the blame if the country goes over the cliff? Answer: Both sides… But Obama and the Democrats also have the upper hand… The other big news from our poll: Majority, for the first time, supports gay marriage… And Clinton to testify on Benghazi.
J. Scott Applewhite / AP
House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio, who conferred with President Barack Obama yesterday by phone, walks to a closed-door meeting with the GOP caucus, Wednesday, Dec. 12, 2012, on Capitol Hill.
*** GOP goes off the image cliff: The clock is ticking over whether President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner can avoid going over the so-called fiscal cliff at the beginning of next year. But our new NBC/WSJ poll shows that the Republican Party has already gone off one cliff, per co-pollster Peter Hart (D) -- the image cliff. The GOP’s fav/unfav rating in the poll now stands at 30%/45% (minus-15), which is down from 36%/43% (minus-7) right before the election. That’s compared with the Democratic Party’s 44%/35% rating (plus-9). And other than self-described Republicans and conservatives, just two other groups have a net positive view of the GOP: folks who live in rural America (39%/33%) and folks who live in the South (39%/38%), that’s it. What’s more, asked to give a word or short phrase to describe the Republican Party, 65% offered a negative comment, including MORE THAN HALF of Republicans. The top responses: “Bad,” “weak,” “negative,” “uncompromising,” “need to work together,” “broken,” “disorganized” and “lost.” By contrast, 37% gave negative descriptions of the Democratic Party, while 35% were positive. A Republican politician or operative might look at our poll and say, “Well, the good news is that our numbers can’t get any lower.” That might be true, and they could very well drag Democrats down with them if there isn’t a deal. But there’s another way to look at the poll: Republicans have a lot to gain, too. And if they want to be a competitive national party again and not simply a regional, rural party, they need to make gains.
The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd explains why the fiscal cliff negotiations haven't fallen apart yet. NBC's Jim Miklaszewski then joins the conversation to talk about the situation in Syria.
*** The American public: We want compromise: The reason they have a lot to gain is that the American public -- Democrats, Republicans, and independents alike -- wants compromise. According to the poll, two-thirds of respondents (67%) are willing to accept an increase in taxes or cuts in federal government programs they care about to reach an agreement to avoid the problem. What’s more, a whopping 76% say it would be acceptable increasing taxes on those who earn more than $250,000 to avoid the cliff, and that includes 61% of Republican respondents. Indeed, for the first time in our poll, a majority of Republicans (59%) say they want GOP leaders to make compromises to gain consensus in the current budget debate. Previously, in 2011, majorities of Republicans said they preferred GOP leaders to stick to their positions rather than make compromises. And the percentage of Democrats who favor compromise on this question (70%) is now at an all-time high in the survey.
*** Does the White House seek compromise -- or total victory? But these numbers present the Obama White House with a dilemma: How does it proceed during what looks like a stalemate right now in the budget negotiations? Does it bend over backwards with Boehner and House Republicans just to get a deal, even if it gives up much of the leverage it has with the Bush-era tax cuts and after last month’s presidential election? Or does it -- as some Democrats and many progressives are urging -- hold fast and be willing to go off the cliff to break the Republican Party and make it cry, “Uncle”? This is a tricky situation for the White House, because there is every chance that we simply go from fiscal cliff to other fiscal cliff over the next few years, and that could end up being politically painful for the White House and could mean the hope of getting OTHER legislative accomplishments in 2013 remote (think immigration or energy or education).
*** Who is to blame if there isn’t a deal? Answer: Both sides: If there is no compromise on the fiscal cliff and the automatic tax increases and spending cuts go into effect at the beginning of next year, 24% say they will blame congressional Republicans more, while 19% will point the finger at Obama and congressional Democrats. But a majority of respondents (56%) say they’ll blame both sides equally. Still, twice as many Americans say they trust the president more in handling this fiscal situation (38%) than House Speaker John Boehner and the congressional Republicans (19%). And significant majorities believe Obama holds a clear mandate from the election on issues related to this subject -- 65% say he has a mandate on reducing the deficit by BOTH increasing taxes on the wealthy and reducing federal spending, and 59% say he has a mandate on eliminating the Bush-era tax cuts for household income over $250,000 a year. The president has the upper hand as far as the public is concerned.
*** Pessimism and realism: But what’s also striking in our poll is how PESSIMISTIC and REALISTIC the American public has become. (Do we dare say they’re now conditioned by Washington gridlock?) For starters, almost seven in 10 (69%) believe that the next year on Capitol Hill will be marked by division and little willingness to compromise. Compare that to four years ago, right after Obama’s first White House victory, when a majority (52%) said the next Congress would usher in a period of unity and working together. In addition, the poll finds 53% saying they are either “optimistic and confident” or “satisfied and hopeful” that Obama will do a good job as president after his re-election, versus 47% who are either uncertain or pessimistic.
*** Majority supports gay marriage: Finally, an historical note: For the first time ever in the NBC/WSJ poll, a majority of respondents -- 51% -- support same-sex marriage. That percentage in support is up from 30% in 2004, 41% in 2009 and 49% in March 2012, demonstrating how quickly public opinion on this issue has changed in just eight years.
*** Clinton to testify on Benghazi: Per NBC’s Andrea Mitchell, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee announced yesterday that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will testify about the Benghazi attack on Thursday, Dec. 20 beginning at 9:00 am ET. Officials tell Mitchell that the report is expected to be sharply critical of the State Department security decisions prior to the fatal attack that killed four Americans, including Ambassador Chris Stevens. Speaking of Benghazi, the toll it had been taking on the president’s job rating on foreign policy is gone. The president is back up over 50% approval on foreign policy. But don’t miss the Susan Rice poll numbers in our survey. If she is nominated to be the next secretary of state, she’ll begin that confirmation fight with a net NEGATIVE personal rating (20%/24%) in our survey; for an unelected Cabinet-level official not named Clinton, she has a surprisingly HIGH name I.D., just 31% said they didn’t know who she was.
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how long will the idiots in congress wait to do the right thing?
I'm so sick of the same drama, year after year after year....
we really need to elect politicians that are willing to work together
Happy Holidays everyone!
You first, no you first
"Where are the president's spending cuts?" asks John Boehner. Republicans demand that President Obama produce an offer of higher spending cuts, and Obama replies that Republicans should say what spending cuts they want, and Republicans insist that Obama should try to guess what kind of spending cuts they would like.
Republicans think government spending is huge, but they can't really identify ways they want to solve that problem, because government spending is not really huge. That is to say, on top of an ideological chasm between the two parties, we have a thinking void. The Republican understanding of government spending is based on hazy, abstract notions that don't match reality and can't be translated into an achievable program.
When the only cuts on the table would inflict real harm on people with modest incomes and save small amounts of money that is a sign that there's just not much money to save. It's not just that Republicans disagree with this; they don't seem to understand it. The absence of a Republican spending proposal is not just a negotiating tactic but a howling void where a specific grasp of the role of government ought to be. And negotiating around that void is extremely hard to do. The spending cuts aren't there because they can't be found.
Math is hard
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2012/12/why-republicans-cant-propose-spending-cuts.html
Chris,
I'm down to being sick of the same drama, day after day...
I'm with ya Red....hour after hour, minute after minute
HOLY GWB AND DARTH CHENEY AND BIG BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Today’s WSJ has a really scary story about the details behind a March 2012 decision by the Barry admin to GREATLY EXPAND federal govt surveillance of U. S. citizens, even people suspected of no crime. This change was signed into effect by that moron, Attorney General Eric Holder.
Normally, the Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable govt searches and seizures without a warrant and probable cause would protect possible victims of Barry’s extraordinary and unprecedented new surveillance activities. But, there is a loophole in the law that allows federal agencies to exempt themselves just by placing a notice in the Federal Register.
Even more alarming is the fact that the changes adopted by the Barry admin also allow them to share this data with foreign govts for their own analysis.
If GWB and Darth Cheney ever tried something like this, the lefty liberal proletariat angry mob would be marching with pitchforks and torches demanding his impeachment. Now, I’m well aware that the FR lefty liberals will give Barry a pass on this alarming and unprecedented federal govt invasion of privacy. I would expect nothing less from the cult of Barry kool-aid drinkers. But, here’s a thought for you: Barry has set a precedent that a future Republican President can use to EXPAND these type of powers (LOL!!!).
From today’s WSJ (emphasis added):
U.S. Terrorism Agency to Tap a Vast Database of Citizens
Top U.S. intelligence officials gathered in the White House Situation Room in March to debate a controversial proposal. Counterterrorism officials wanted to create a government dragnet, sweeping up millions of records about U.S. citizens—even people suspected of no crime.
Not everyone was on board. "This is a sea change in the way that the government interacts with the general public," Mary Ellen Callahan, chief privacy officer of the Department of Homeland Security, argued in the meeting, according to people familiar with the discussions.
A week later, the attorney general signed the changes into effect.
Through Freedom of Information Act requests and interviews with officials at numerous agencies, The Wall Street Journal has reconstructed the clash over the counterterrorism program within the administration of President Barack Obama. The debate was a confrontation between some who viewed it as a matter of efficiency—how long to keep data, for instance, or where it should be stored—and others who saw it as granting authority for unprecedented government surveillance of U.S. citizens.
The rules now allow the little-known National Counterterrorism Center to examine the government files of U.S. citizens for possible criminal behavior, even if there is no reason to suspect them. That is a departure from past practice, which barred the agency from storing information about ordinary Americans unless a person was a terror suspect or related to an investigation.
Now, NCTC can copy entire government databases—flight records, casino-employee lists, the names of Americans hosting foreign-exchange students and many others. The agency has new authority to keep data about innocent U.S. citizens for up to five years, and to analyze it for suspicious patterns of behavior. Previously, both were prohibited. Data about Americans "reasonably believed to constitute terrorism information" may be permanently retained.
National Counterterrorism Center Director Matthew Olsen testifies before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence on Capitol Hill in January.
The changes also allow databases of U.S. civilian information to be given to foreign governments for analysis of their own. In effect, U.S. and foreign governments would be using the information to look for clues that people might commit future crimes.
"It's breathtaking" in its scope, said a former senior administration official familiar with the White House debate.
Counterterrorism officials say they will be circumspect with the data. "The guidelines provide rigorous oversight to protect the information that we have, for authorized and narrow purposes," said Alexander Joel, Civil Liberties Protection Officer for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the parent agency for the National Counterterrorism Center.
The Fourth Amendment of the Constitution says that searches of "persons, houses, papers and effects" shouldn't be conducted without "probable cause" that a crime has been committed. But that doesn't cover records the government creates in the normal course of business with citizens.
Congress specifically sought to prevent government agents from rifling through government files indiscriminately when it passed the Federal Privacy Act in 1974. The act prohibits government agencies from sharing data with each other for purposes that aren't "compatible" with the reason the data were originally collected.
But the Federal Privacy Act allows agencies to exempt themselves from many requirements by placing notices in the Federal Register, the government's daily publication of proposed rules. In practice, these privacy-act notices are rarely contested by government watchdogs or members of the public. "All you have to do is publish a notice in the Federal Register and you can do whatever you want," says Robert Gellman, a privacy consultant who advises agencies on how to comply with the Privacy Act.
As a result, the National Counterterrorism Center program's opponents within the administration—led by Ms. Callahan of Homeland Security—couldn't argue that the program would violate the law. Instead, they were left to question whether the rules were good policy.
Under the new rules issued in March, the National Counterterrorism Center, known as NCTC, can obtain almost any database the government collects that it says is "reasonably believed" to contain "terrorism information." The list could potentially include almost any government database, from financial forms submitted by people seeking federally backed mortgages to the health records of people who sought treatment at Veterans Administration hospitals.
First time First Thoughts comes up on my screen - it says 6 minutes have gone by (undetected).
Same yesterday.
Pour quoi?
It's like we keep saying...Speaker Boehner wants the President to negotiate against himself.
The GOP demands spending cuts and that's all well and good, but when asked to suggest spending cuts they offer nothing?
My father always told me...if you don't like something that's fine but you have to offer an alternative. The GOP doesn't like the President's proposal but then offering an alternative they offer no specifics. That's not an alternative.
If the GOP wants to get serious about avoiding the fiscal cliff then my advice is simple...
Get serious about avoiding the fiscal cliff.
I would love for Boner and his minions to go on record for exactly what they want to cut in SS, Medicare, and Medicaid so their constituents know what they want to do to them.
AHHHHHH. IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD. Yesterday was12-12-12, the Mayan's predicted the World would spin off it's axis. We're all DEAD.
What? You say we all didn't die yesterday? But,but it was the Mayan's who said so. We all know they were smarter than we are (especially the Republicans).
WAIT. A NOTE FROM JOE IN ALBANY. He says the date has been moved up to 12-21-12 and Joe knows everything.
AHHHHHHH, IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD.
There ya go. The republicons have nothing. The Democrats have a pat hand and should call the republicon bluff.
If anyone is serious about cuts, look to the Military/Industrial Complex. Their budget is twice the size it was under Clinton.
Neither party wants to do what is best for the country. Egos prevail. They really don't give a rat's ass if this debacle comes down to midnight on the 31st. Numbnuts all!!!
I asked yesterday and to no surprise didn't receive and answer;
Why are only "entitlements" on the chopping block?
Why aren't unnecessary subsidies and corporate welfare being addressed?
***CONGRATS*** - to the newest addition to our First Read family!
NewDayDawning welcomed a beautiful, healthy grand-daughter yesterday on 12.12.12
Salud!
The politicians just don't seem to understand how weary of all the posturing the American people have become. We work hard every day, often under difficult circumstances, yet have no sense that our politicians understand this or care. While I think the Democrats are more aware than the Republicans, both sides seem caught up in their own drama and focused on their own political futures rather than those of the people they are supposed to be serving.
California Tom - And YOU know everything? I think Joe got you on this one.
Nasty redhead - Because entitlements are expanding under progressive/liberal leadership. Have you been living under a rock? How can anyone ask such a stupid quesytion?
You are the perfect example of a "Can't Understand Normal Thinking"
Over the cliff we go!
I've said for a while that the cliff is actually a cliff we're going UP, not OVER. The cliff is tall and what they're taking about now is REDUCING the steepness of that cliff, creating some switchbacks to get us UP out of the HOLE we're in.
The only solution is to go up that cliff slowly because we're so Politically OUT OF SHAPE we can't CLIMB any more.
So here, let's let all of the Bush tax cuts go, with the pain spread over 5 years. 20% a year over 5 years. That will make the "cliff" aspect of it go away, but get us back in fiscal order eventually. That's half the deficit. Do another 25% with spending cuts, and grow out of the rest. DONE.
"If GWB and Darth Cheney ever tried something like this, the lefty liberal proletariat angry mob would be marching with pitchforks and torches demanding his impeachment."
At which point, righties would accuse them of treason.
DaNoid - good point - years ago one of my cousins children wanted a "thig a ma jig" for Christmas...we went to every store looking for it..but could never find it...until we realized it was just a figment of the imagination...
Like wise with the GNOP - you ask well what spending cuts do you support...and they can never give a straight answer...it's always tell us what you will cut and we'll let you know...and of course - it is never good enough....so tell me more..
Well GNOP ... it's time to grow some cojones, stop grovelling at the feet of Norquist and tell the citizens what it is you want to cut...and stop protecting the 2%.....I realize HONESTY is not a word in your vocabulary but the voters have spoken...and it looks like we are willing to get coal in our stocking unles you stop playing your childish games..Stop being spoiled children and act like men and learn the art of the compormise.....you had the chance last year when you were offered 95% of what you wanted.....but being greedy...you wanted it your way or no way...As my old industrial arts teacher used to say..."When you play...you must Pay"....
Republicons vs Democrats
Idealogues vs Pragmatics
And it's over the fiscal cliff we go.
And the republicon party continues its fall into irrelevancy
(Republicans in) Congress, by threatening not to raise the debt limit, is telling the world that the United States may not pay the bills already approved and obligated ( BY CONGRESS ) unless Republicans get whatever they want from any and all negotiations with the (democrat) party in power.
This is a case study in irresponsible behavior. President Obama should take whatever steps available within executive powers to render this perennial threat toothless.
Why dosen't First Read give an honest assesment of Obama's plan? Does taxing the rich and not cutting entitlements help? If so for whom? Can they say Obama has a good plan? But attacking Republicans for thier ideas is swell.
I totally agree with other posters on here that if the Republicans want a compromise, they need to bring something to the table other than unspecified tax reform and undetermined spending cuts.
President Obama clearly stated throughout his campaign how he would increase tax revenue, how he would reform corporate tax, and what spending cuts (including military) he would propose.
The Republicans need to put up or shut up. If they want more spending cuts, be specific. Outline what programs they would reduce and by how much.
If they feel they raise enough revenue through tax reform, be specific about what deductions they would reduce or eliminate.
President Obama and the Democrats have a clear, detailed offer on the table. If the Republicans want to reject it, they should offer an equally detailed counter proposal.
SmBusOwnerinNY,
Love your perpective.
"we're so Politically OUT OF SHAPE we can't CLIMB any more."
And here I thought every Congress person went to their gym everyday?
Guess they need to get off the tread mill they have been stuck on and actually move forward.
Only with MSDNC is "image" the topic of the day ..... $16.371 trillion in debt and rising ! Obama has yet to "lead" the Senate into passing anything resembling a BUDGET.
You could tax the 2% highest earning Americans at a 100% tax rate and it wouldn't cover annual deficits for a single year. Where is Obama's plan to cut expenses ?
First, I missed this yesterday, so belatedly - My congratulations to NewDayDawning. A brand spanking new granddaughter. I have dispatched an ACORN team to sign her up.
Second, something maybe we have forgotten. The House of Representatives is mandated by the Constitution to originate revenue bills - that would include a budget. It is not the President's job to do anything more than submit a proposal. He has done that. After all, he has to carry out the mandates of Congress. That's what the Executive does. Basically, when the negotiations get down to brass tacks, the President is making decisions that identify executive functions that can be reduced. He doesn't get a blank check.
In the past, we have seen any number of oversight functions reduced to our detriment. The SEC, CFTC, EPA, and a whole raft of other agencies have been cut. We have seen how well the financial services sector polices itself. Given the massive abuses we have seen, it seems quite likely that enforcement of desperately-needed regulation and well-deserved fines would fund those agencies....not the taxpayer.
Third, the debt ceiling is necessitated by a Congress that spends more than it takes in. Period. Boehner, McConnell and company want the citizenry to believe that they are not responsible for the deficits and subsequent national debt. BS!
Fourth, kudos to SmBusOwnerinNY. Love your posts, their clarity and their accuracy, and for the perspective on the "fiscal cliff".
Or how about the elephant in the room, the military. That should be the first place cuts are made.
The best way to describe watching the GOP over the last couple of years, would be a combination of a snake swallowing itself and a dog chasing its tail. They're literally eating themselves alive, but can't seem to figure out it's their OWN ass going into their OWN mouth.
After an 18 month campaign where Romney was repeatedly asked to give specifics, what do they do when they come to the bargaining table, offer NO specifics. Listen, I'm not saying the Dems proposal is perfect, but at least show us how you want to start, Boehner. Geez.
Everyone agrees that spending needs to be cut, so just let the automatic cuts scheduled to take effect on January 1 begin - Savings over 10 years = $1.2 Trillion.
Everyone said the Clinton era tax rates were 'fair', so just let the Bush tax cuts expire for EVERYONE on January 1 - Tax increase over 10 years = about $4 Trillion.
Total deficit reduction over 10 years if we let the automatic changes take effect = $5.2 Trillion - Deficit problem 'controlled'.
The Republicans get their spending cuts, and Obama gets his tax increases. And the beauty is that it requires that the President and Congress do what they do best - NOTHING.
PS - Since economic results are always 'pinned' on the President when history is written, this will result in a miserable 'legacy' for Obama if we have another 4 years of stagnation, so while Obama may try to 'blame the Republicans', history will record this as the 'Obama Legacy' of economic stagnation.
@ Joe: Fact is, there's been an effort underway for a very long time to place Americans under continuous communications surveillance.
This legislation is just another element of the same program; and who's in the White House has little indeed to do with the momentum behind the agenda.
To acquire an idea of how sophisticated and expansive this program is, see: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/
Wake up: everything you say- anywhere, anytime, to anyone, by any means, can and will be used against you.
To naively blame it on any one administration disregards reality: Washington hasn't been run by elected officials for a long time.
Republicans stick to their image of "powerful and wealthy white men, no respect for women's rights, advocating "enhanced interrogation" (torture), and serving the causes of "Starving the Beast"".
When will they learn that all of these things will cost them elections in the future.
Works for me!
My point is, the laser focus by the GNOP on slashing social "security nets" is disgusting!
There is plenty of "bloat" to attack without taking from those who paid into the system...
As usual this morning, Chucky T again accused President Obama of Not being a good negoiator, by Not bending over for Chucky T'z Republican Masters. Then comes on here to put into words that the President Only has the Public on his side.WELL DUH !
How much bigger of a Dip$hit does Chucky T. havta be before the Higher ups $hitcan this dumba$$! He's nothing but a numbers guy trying to be a Nate Silver(good luck with that).
Hold Steady Mr. President, "The Public Has Your Back"!
Theres that 47% again who are either Uncertain or Pessimistic! America knows who they are & it's the Takers who beleive they are Makers!
You Betcha!
Occupy SoggyBottom!
Congrats to NDD!
I agree.. i would also love some more choices besides Republican and Democrat . Lately i have been voting against the other guy instead of for anyone.
Hang fast Mr President, the American people are with you on this. Get rid of corporate welfare, posturing republican politicians who sanctimoniously blather on about ruining the economy, while at the same time have no intention of doing one darn thing to help the country.
They've been singing that same song since Jan 2011 and we have nothing. Their only interest is themselves and their political lives and how much power and money they can accumulate while being paid to work by the hardworking tax payer they are trying to screw.
NDD................many congratulations, having a granddaughter is one of life's great blessings.
The Fall of Rome
From the article above:
The article continues…
The article concludes….
My impression from this article is it doesn't get any sadder than this.
As much of a staunch Democrat that I am, I find the whole gridlock in congress disgusting.
I think there are good, ordinary, Americans who are suffering because of the childishness and greed that has corrupted our government AND media.
As you have heard me say many times before, I put the blame for the atmosphere, attitude, and demeanor in congress and the nation, directly on Faux and Rush Limbaugh shoulders.
These media giants are responsible for purposely misleading the nation in order to divide us and take our money.
Stop listening to Faux and turn off the Rush. They don't give a damn about you.
Lobbyists, Media moguls, media personalities, congressman and senators are all profiting from the gratuitous amounts of cash that is being thrown their way.
Why?
For the sole purpose of making us, Democrats AND Republicans enslaved to their whims.
Look at the article by Bill Krystal and comments made by Joe Scarborough which describe how the gobs of money is responsible for the breakdown and corruption of our elected officials and their utter disregard for their responsibilities and purpose to serve the PEOPLE.
The war isn't between Democrats and Republicans.
The war is between us poor and Middle class Democrats and Republicans and the wealthy and powerful who are screwing us BOTH.
Salud
JH (Lots of numbers)
Obviously you've never heard of SATIRE. Look it up, try educating yourself instead of just babbling.
I see jim lotsanumbers has weighed in with this:
Oh jim, the scale didn't budge when you weighed in. What is it with you guys and your total ignorance of civics. The Senate already has "leaders"; a Majority Leader - that would be Harry Reid, and a Minority Leader - that would be the mentally-challenged Mitch McConnell.
Why President Obama hasn't led anyone into anything resembling a budget is because that's the job of the out-of-his-depth Speaker of the House, John Boehner. See U.S. Constitution, Article one, Section 7.
How many times has it been said here by the lifties, libruls, libtards, progs, and the like: "Raising revenues alone will not balance the budget."? The answer is many, many, many times. Read the quote as many times as you must before it imprints.
Did you and JH lotsanumbers spend your life in the same crib?
New day dawning, Congratulations and enjoy.
That sounds about right. The GOP clings to power through dirty tricks and media manipulation.
We need conservative viewpoints and voices, but they have to be reasonable and rational. Republicans have to care more about the country than they do about holding on to power. Is that possible for the GOP?
JH, care to explain which entitlements? The ones the Teapublicans want to chop are NOT entitlements, they are SS, Medicare and Medicaid, all three of which working people PAY into, as they are a form of insurance. They are self funded and have ZERO to do with the budget (except when the GOP raids them, illegally and leaves worthless IOU's). So, take those off the table, and the GOP has offered nothing. The majority of the US is tired of this. Boner and crew need to either get serious, or have a news conference and tell the people what most people already know - "We, the GOP, are simply out to screw as many non-2%'ers as possible, and if it means doing nothing, well, we have been doing that for the last two years anyway as the Party of NO!"
BTW, Boner, We the People are still waiting on that jobs bill you promised to rush to the House floor two years ago, so where is it? You've brought lots of inane bills up for votes that never make it past the Senate because they have nothing to do with governing and everything to do with playing to your dwindling base, but an actual bill that will help people, nah, even if you promised that there's no hurry. Too bad for you the economy is getting better w/o you or your party, which defeats your plan of making the Pres look bad, huh? Even self-identifying GOP voters are sick of you and your fellow GOP Pols. Either do your damn job, or resign, the lot of you. You'll be hailed as heroes by the brainwashed Faux "News" viewers, while the majority of this nation will be happy to see you go so things can actually get moving in DC. I am sure you will find lucrative jobs in "think" tanks, book deals and the lecture circuit, not to mention at the corporations that brib..er..contributed to your campaign funds. I, for one, look forward to the day when a younger generation asks me "You were there when the GOP stopped being a political party? How was it such stupid people held such important jobs?" And I will delight in telling them of how their parents and grandparents were frightened and brainwashed into voting for them until enough broke free of the mind control to send the GOP packing into history, just like what happened to the Whigs.
Jim, there's an old saying...Perception IS Reality.
LMAO!
The DUMBING DOWN of the GOP (the Party of NO) never seems to end. This is great for the Democrats who keep getting more and more converts by the day while the GOP only has the uneducated, yahoo’s supporting the Crack Pot Agenda of the Tea Party Radicals.
If Boner wants to go over the so called fiscal cliff so be it will bring the end of the GOP once and for all!
As long as the 'negotiations' take place in public, nothing will be agreed upon. The Republicans need to insist that the negotiations take place in private, because Obama always publicly criticizes every proposal by the Republicans as 'protecting the rich' - Obama seems to be in constant 'campaign mode' - perhaps he should be reminded that the election is over.
Obama's 'legacy' is what will suffer if we go into another recession, despite his 'Blame the Republicans' rhetoric.
***waves to Gingerbread Mamma****
Good to see you back on board, your voice was missed! ;o)
PS: Say Roy Wilson, you ran off again yesterday when I asked you to support your claim of the boards I have been banned from!
Thank you for proving my assessment of you being a bald faced liar was correct!
Poor little Roy, all barky no bitey! lol
Dennis, great post. The trouble with the GOP is they are focused on fixing what everyone can agree is a long-term problem, the deficit and the debt, instead of being focused on fixing the short-term problem which is the economy and job creation. Our immediate problem is not the deficit or debt but lack of a booming economy thanks to the GOP obstruction as well as their fiscal irresponsibility from 2001 through 2008. Focus on getting the economy humming full steam again as well as raising taxes on the 2% and reforming the tax code to eliminate corporate welfare as well as loopholes, and the deficit pretty much fixes itself; then begin reducing the debt.
In addition, as a country, we cannot continue to spend such a huge portion of our money on defense. Yes, we need to remain strong but we do not need to pay the bill for the world while they spend very little of their nation's wealth on defense.
If the GOPers bothered to look at their own history, they would see that "Once Upon a Time", they also deficit-spent money to boost the economy in recessions because they understood that the short-term goal is jobs. Don't forget, the GOP deficit spent the entire 8 years of the Bush 43 presidency--now they claim the debt which they doubled is a problem. Too bad, the GOPTP doesn't remotely resemble its "Once Upon a Time" fiscal sanity, or for that matter, resemble its previous ideological principles.
Feisty said:
Woo hoo...congrats to NewDay and her family!!! And congrats to anyone who becomes friends with that girl in the future because she is gonna have the easiest birthday to remember EVER!!! LOL!!! :-)
And since they think their @!$%# doesn't stink, they couldn't care less.
When you look at this wanna-be elite group of GOWR, all you see is big money stamped all over their foreheads, that's who they work for, that's who paid them to do their bidding, they don't work for Americans who "stupidly" voted them into office, they work for the money-men who own them.
If you notice, none of the entitlement cuts this group wants has to do with corporate welfare, only cuts that will hurt the elderly and poor, typically the 47% who Romney didn't care about, but still, they voted for Romney and the clown Boehner.
Feisty, that's the same question I asked yesterday (and like you, was roundly ignored): Why is it all about entitlement spending? Furthermore, how did we allow the Forces of Darkness to hijack that particular word and twist its meaning into what it seems to be today?
Entitlement means "something one has a right or a claim to." It does not mean "money stolen from hard-working, God-fearing Republican voters and given to crack-smoking welfare moms in exchange for votes."
Once again, these lying, thieving bastards have taken a simple term and twisted it around to mean the opposite of what it should- aided and abetted by their lapdogs in the lickspittle corporate media. ("Liberal" media, my ruddy English arse!) Remember "Healthy Forests"? How about "Clear Skies"? I would imagine that the Red Queen is having herself a good laugh over all this.
As a side note, I should point out that any major cuts in defense spending must neccessarily have a bad effect on me personally; in Kitsap County, Washington, everybody works for the U.S. Navy. None the less, if that's what has to happen in order to get our financial house in order, without placing the entire burden solely on the weakest and most needy in our midst- then slash away, damnit!
It's about having a vital, prosperous America for the rising generations, not just "me, me, me!" I am prepared to step up and accept higher taxes like a man, and not whine and snivel about how hard-done-by I am.
That one fact, exclusive of anything else, would be enough to identify me as a Progressive. Conservatives seem to think that the whole world ought properly be devoted to fulfilling their needs and ensuring that they're never inconvenienced by awful, nasty things like taxes. Oh, no, not me! Go tax that other guy!
Sorry, Republicans, it's time to put on your Big Boy pants- oh, you don't have any? Then call up that South Asian sweatshop you've invested in and have them sew you a pair!- take your medicine and shut the hell up with your bitching. It was for your benefit and enrichment that the world's economy got wrecked, and the days are well over when you could collect the profits during the good times and expect the Productive Classes to cover the losses caused by your idiocy when the vultures come home to roost.
Combine the actions of Republicans over the past four years with what just happened in Michigan and they could not possibly look worse. Republicans have earned their terrible image.
Well, it's about time! The gremlins have been at work on my account. . . .
David,
You're wasting your time trying to explain anything to Jim Lotsanumbers. He's one of those people who sticks his fingers in his ears and goes, "Nah-Nah-Nah-Nah-Nah" until the end of time.
California Tom,
JH can look up the word satire, but that doesn't mean he'll understand what it means. Subtlety and a sense of humor are not his strong points.
Is that true? Let's examine that statement in light of the facts. You can find Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data here (2010 data seems to be the latest available):
According to this data, the top 1% made $1.5T (AGI).
Deficit in 2010 was $1.3T.
So, in fact, you could tax the top 1% at 100% rate and cancel the deficit completely!
So let's put this BS fairy tale to rest now, eh?
CelticPagan
Even by your logic, Medicaid is an entitlement. But forget about what you want to call them, all three programs are broken, Medicare especially. Any long-term solution has to include cuts to Medicare. Defense spending needs to be cut, but that alone isn't enough. Even if we completely eliminated the military we would still be running a deficit.
Obama needs to hold firm. Let the tax increases and spending cuts take effect. The GOP has been too arrogent for too long. It's their backers who have the most to lose. In the mid-term elections the country has to get their heads out of their butts and do complete what started in the last election, i.e. vote the Republicans out of office so our president can do what he has intended to do from day one and bring about the reforms needed to get our house in order. Our politician's responsibility is to the citizens of this nation, NOT just the rich ones. The rich need to poor and middle-class just as much as we need the rich. They can't sell products unless they hire people so they'll have income with which to buy products.
Get rid of the 108K payroll tax ceiling and limit itemized deductions to 50K per person. Tax revenue will increase 3T per year. Deficit gone in 5 yrs. Right now those who make 110M pay the same tax as those making 110K. They can also deduct the interest on their yacht by claiming it as their 13th home.
GOP = 1% Party
How could the Republicans have an image problem? Just because everything they've done lately has been for the direct benefit of the richest 2% to help them acquire even more wealth and power at the expense of everyone else and even the against the health of the national economy? Just because they continue to pursue the immensely unpopular social agenda of religious fundamentalists?
Look at it this way: evangelicals are about 27% of the population. The rich are 2%. Ignoring overlap, that's 29% of the country that should absolutely love the Republican party. And where is their approval rating? 30%! See, their image is actually doing better in favorability than it should be. Either that or it's just a rounding error. Hmmm...
Republicans are waiting for Emperor Grover Norquist to tell them what to do and when to do it. They do not think for themselves. When Grover says jump, they ask how high......on the way up !
During the 2012 campaign, the Republicans attacked President Obama for cutting Medicare by $700 billion. Now that the election is over, they're attacking him for NOT cutting Medicare some more. How can Obama negotiate with these lunatics?
Roy, both Boehner and Obama are acting like children fighting over who rules the sandbox. The reason the negotiating is taking place in public is because both sides are dishonest about what they present.
Boehner offers revenue increases by limiting certain deductions, but does not give what those could be.
Obama offers spending cuts, but does not give what those cuts could be.
As typical revenue expands at an average of 7.5% more per year. The problem is spending on many programs is increasing in excess of that. You will never right the ship by raising taxes, because the economy cannot take it.
like I said Republican party is destroyed, well done libbies. You guys now get to own the whole mess! Have fun the next 4 years. Oh wait,, it will still be Bush's fault right??
Tim Pheil........EXACTLY ! Other option is to collect SS tax and medicare premiums on ALL income, not just payroll income. Mega Wealthy people don't depend on a weekly paycheck for their living.
It's funny, November 6, 2012 at around 9:30 ET is when the GOP fell off the cliff with the american public. Here we are December 13th, 2012 and the memo still seems to have been unread....
Houston...Democrats are currently trying to butcher Obamacare because now that are "seeing what's in it", they realize it is a fiscal nightmare that cannot be paid for. Obama is un-suprisingly silent on this.
Go read this by guys who worked with Clinton. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323353204578127374039087636.html
This country has over $80 TRILLION in long-term UNFUNDED liabilities. There must be significant cuts in spending. And Obama is piddling around with an insignificant amount of revenue to be generated by the rich.
Congratulations to NDD on the arrival of a new granddaughter--to spoil and spoil some more!
GingerbreadMamma, good to see you back; we've missed you.
Only rural Americans and those in the South favor Republicans? You don't say? Anyone want to guess why there seems to be a negative correlation between proximity to higher education and tendency to sympathize with Republicans?
How much longer will the taxpayers put up with a president who can't negotiate and can't lead. Let Joe Biden take over, he may suffer a little from dementia.. but he still knows how to negotiate a deal that will work for both sides! BO stinks at negotiating, always has....
Joe in Albany I enjoyed your rather prolix post. Especiallly when I got to the part hwere you refer to the "Barrry" administration. That was the signal that I could stop reading and move on to someone with an idea or two.
Let's do this; tax every person in this country at the old Clinton levels, have Obama spend at the old Clinton levels. Obama said that what we should do, it worked then, should work now. The difference is Clinton was not trying to turn this country too SOCIALISM.
The President has to be laughing His ass off at the republicans. They desperately want to cut Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment benefits, plus medicaid and food stamp programs for the poor. They wish to retain the defense budget though. While for them, everything else is contingent upon these, they do not wish to be the ones who bring these proposals before the American people. Fact, they are scared to death to do so. Accordingly, they want the President to present these as a swap for the tax raise on the wealthy. Mr President, Sir, You've got these son-a-bitches with their britches down, and none of 'em are wearing drawers. Let 'em expose their own unwashed, rusty asses to the electorate. When it comes to the art of comedic stupidity the republicans are a real delight.
We presented our plan...you didn't like it...we submitted another proposal....you didn't like it either...we don't like yours.....so I guess we're at a stalemate....Your Empty Suit doesn't want to budge......his problem.....not ours...remember you won...you own it...over we go......Too bad it's your Empty Suit's fault....
The man who can't negotiate is also responsible for the murder of 4 Americans in Benghazi lest we forget....He's just a peach isn't he?
hs321
Why are you addressing me? Your incoherent rant has absolutely nothing to do with the FACT I pointed out that the Republicans attacked Obama for cutting Medicare during the 2012 election campaign, and now they're attacking him for not cutting Medicare some more now that the election is over. No doubt, if Obama does propose more cuts to Medicare, the Republicans will once again start screaming "DEATH PANELS" and accusing Obama "pulling the plug on granny."
David Walker
Thank you so much for trying to explain to the no knowledge folks how it all works. I have tried and tried but they keep on spewing the same crap. This is what happens when all your knowledge is gleaned from Fox Not News and Limbaugh. All those 2 numbskull entities do is narrow the conservatives world to the point where they really need to take a civics class to actually learn how the government operates.
I'm surprised too because they worship the Constitution so very much and you would think that they would have read about the duties of the different branches of government. It's all in there. Knowledge, free for the taking. I guess worshiping the Constitution and actually reading it are two completely different things. You can't rely on other people to tell you what's in itall the time. You have to actually see for yourself.
To all the repubs, input on this subject, who can't see past their noses, due to the fact that Boner,Norquest, and the rest of the republican party are blocking their view, should step away from them and see life as it really is!!!!!!!!! But to make comments, while being kept from seeing the truth, is disturbing to he rest of the country. BE YOURSELF, DON'T FOLLOW,LEAD. GROW UP!!!
The cuts that need to be made will have the animals rioting in the streets. Putting a cap on welfare, foodstamps, obama phones, healthcare, and social security for new immigrants would be a start. Then, apply the same to the lazy americans. Why should drug addicts get social security, and why should families be rewarded with free food, money, and housing for popping out babies they can't care for?. Why should immigrants from the old USSR get social security, foodstamps, welfare, healthcare ect...when they migrate here???.
plsthink90
'Bush' is just a euphemism for the people who voted for him ... yep, you still get to shoulder a lot of the blame.
watching the liberals on this "news" site day after day try to talk crap is hilarious. they think that because they are surrounded by a lot of people that agree with them on here that they are right, when in fact they are all just too blind and following msnbs' horribly one-sided and pathetic articles. they don't notice that increasing taxes will power this gov'ts spending for only a couple of weeks, and that's assuming that this administration won't just put that money into another useless program like usual when they get their hands on more money. the only way to get us out of debt is to reduce the ridiculous spending and create this magical, fictional thing in the left-wing world called a budget... yes i said that scary word.
oh and let me bake your noodles for a moment... the liberals say it was 2 costly wars that put us here... iraq and afghanistan together cost $1.4 trillion. this administration has added over $4 trillion in debt, so why aren't you yelling at obama? that's almost 3 times as much! oh and then i love how when bush was president, it was his fault for the economic collapse. now that obama is president, the liberals all say the president doesn't actually do much and it's congress' fault for the lack of recovery... so which is it liberals? was it bush's fault then for pushing us over and obama's fault now for only 1 person being added to the workforce for every 10 who leave? or was it the senate AND house that were controlled by the dems under bush that pushed us over the edge and now it's BOTH the republican house and democratic senate that are slowing up the recovery? either way you lose. and don't tell me the recovery is working. 146,000 people added to the workforce last month, YAY! oh wait, 546,000 left the workforce entire because they gave up on looking for jobs.... darn, guess msnbs missed that part.
you can continue to hate on the people who make money, but ask yourself this, who pays my salary? is it a poor person? or is it one of those "evil" people who make over $250,000 a year? i know which one it is, and i know you probably won't understand what i am getting at, but i thought i'd open your eyes a little so you could grow up for once and realize that this is america, the land where those who take the risks and succeed are rewarded.
you attack the republicans for wanting to give people a choice to get out of a horribly failing medicare system. when i reach that age, there won't be anything left, yet i have been paying into the system for a long time. i want a choice to start a true life with real benefits that will be there when i need it most. you also attack republicans for giving people a choice in whether or not you want to join a union, instead of being FORCED to join and FORCED to pay dues... you know for the party of "choice" you people really hate giving people choices.
the fact is you are the party of pure hypocrisy and i and many others learned that a long time. you follow a "news" outlet that has been failing in it's ratings for awhile now because people have realized how ultra-left and off-base with reality it is. i'm gonna get back to work now, working for one of those "evil" corporate people who is only trying to suppress me and keep me poor and steal my money and not give me the healthcare i have and trying to kill my grandma... oh wait, i thought the right was the party of fear mongering? i guess that was a story on msnbs awhile ago that you guys bought into as well...
panda, over and out!
Taxation without representation.
One party voters HATE IT!
Because, you know, they think they have a monopoly on good ideas.
The Republicans are doing their job. The ones that have their jobs were voted in. Whether they'll keep those jobs or not simply will depend on voting day. I think the poll does show that people want a deal, not nailing your foot to the floor.
But then there are plenty of Democrats that do that too. And if not negotiating means you should lose your job, I look forward to next election when I can hopefully see voters grow a pair (of whatever your preferred pair is) and vote them out.
You people lying you are disappointed without a deal and mad we might go over a fiscal cliff have only yourselves to blame if you voted for one party across the board and voted incumbents back in. You are the problem. Not the politicians.
Bob James has the only solution, but Pres Obama can't stand to say that anything Clinton did was right. Obama is such a my way or the highway guy.
The best way forward is to eliminate all Bush/Obama era tax cuts. Period.
The GOP is proving it's loyalty to the special interest groups and the lobbyist in Washington... MONEY...
The right wing only care about how much money that they can make for themselves from huge corporations and wealthy Ceo's and they do not give a rat's behind about the American people... The GOP is bought and paid for...
They say that they are doing the peoples work... What a joke... If they would stop this bull and get done what they agree on, the entire country would be better off...
We need to vote the "Do Nothing Politicians" out of office the next mid-term election... From both parties... And most important is we need to change voting laws so that every American is registered to vote come next election, no matter what state one lives in... Enough of the game playing and money grabbing...
Got to love that liberal biased media spin machine working 24/7 trying to blame ALL of our Presidents failures on the GOP. I have not seen one article published by his media that is asking what entitlements, (excluding SS and Medicare) cuts is Obama willing to make. Raising taxes on the dreaded, horrible, wealthy who own companies, hire people, pay millions in taxes, provide benefits, donate to charities, etc...will be a great feather in his cap; but the increased revenue won't amount to as much as a rounding error in the overall scheme of things. We have a spending problem with this President, not a tax problem.
You whack job liberals are really demented or just being obstreperous. When partisan polls show that the overwhelming majority of tax paying Americans want a compromise, that's means from both sides. That means your insanely expensive, wrought with fraud, entitlements must be cut. Oh, dear, what will the libs do now? You can't take away one of their 10 free cell phones, you can't keep rewarding people for having multiple kids from multiple men and being rewarded for doing so, you can't keep using your welfare cards at strip clubs, you might have to be held accountable. You might have to actually accept a job that is available, instead of just sticking your hand our so a hard working tax payer can fill it. Oh dear, what will they do?
And believe it or not; anyone can voluntarily give more than the federal government takes in taxes. Just give more. You can even publish a list that anyone can access to read the names of those hard working liberals that love the poor so much they are giving more than they are currently forced to give. And you can put my name on the list that says FU I already pay 37%. And I would bet not one of you hypocritical liberals would give a dime more than you have too.
Cut the BS! 50-90 Billion in additional revenue is not "insignificant". Where else do you get that level of revenue? And no rational plan does not include an increase in revenue. And we wonder why Republicans have no workable plans or new ideas of any sort? All they have ever wanted to do is cut Federal spending, that is, when they are not in power!
Apparently you, like your GOP'er brethren in Congress, could care less about what the people desire. They only care what their cloistered, carefully gerry-mandered, lily-white, little districts want. For that reason they remain intransigent. Those folks are their base now. Not the remainder of "the people". That's the problem. Maybe they can't win the Presidency or Senate but they can obstruct the Federal government for decades and continue to get re-elected this way. A pathetic state of affairs that will not be easily fixed.
But the cuts that need to be made now pale in comparrison to the cuts that will be necessary when interest rates go up on our national debt. If rates go up to 6% again, interest payments (to the tune of about one trillion a year) will be the number one expense of the federal government.
We need to pay down the debt, and to do that we need serious across-the-board cuts.
We have another gater, as in Benghazi-gate, on the loose. Let me guess, Obama is also responsible for the death of the Seal Team 6 team member killed while performing a rescue operation. Or is Obama only responsible for deaths when it suits your fancy? As a gater, and a hater, we can safely assume it is the latter.
When y'all voted for Obama for a second term then you voted for gridlock. I understand the 47% did not want the gravy train to end, but all good things come to an end. It is better for the nation to put its house in order then to make a bad deal. Any deal with the democrats is a bad deal.
Here is what President Obama needs to tell Boner what his new plan will be after “The Cliff”. . .
Earn over 250,000 no deductions 45% flat tax!
Capital Gains taxed at flat 55%
Capital Gains taxed at 85% if US jobs were are lost
Capital Gains taxed at 25% if sustainable US jobs are created
Inheritance tax over $5 million taxed at 55%
To repatriate ALL foreign funds after 6/30/13 taxed at 75%
Pay your share or move to the anywhere else! They will welcome you with open arms and open wallets.
Republicans made the mistake of thinking the 2004 election was a landslide.
Looks like Democrats are now doing the same thing.
Shhhh!! One party voters are using only half a brain. But if you tell them that, they get all up in arms!
WOW just the headlines make you think this media outlet has another agenda besides getting people the news that we want.
When is MSNDC going to just suck it up and report the NEWS, instead of just giving us ignorant headlines like this.
At the end ogf the day the buck always stops with the President. The blame will be his and thats just the way it is. If something good happens he gets the creedit something bad he gets the blame. Look at Bill Clinton he had a repuk controlled house and senate but got all ther credit for having a surplus. Look at Bush the congress voted for the war in Iraq but yet Bush gets all the blame. No way in hell we all of a sudden are going to not blame the President because the buck always stops with the President.
Pelosi acting like a child wanting to "go home" for the holidays instead of taking care of America shows the attitude of the Progressives towards going over the "Fiscal Cliff". She has joined the ranks of the likes of "Peppermint Patricia" and the rest of the far Left surrogates.
The Progressives could care less about America and the Middle Class and the Liberal media refuses to report this attitude.
The election is OVER !!! Report ALL sides of the issues.
So proud of your post, you felt the need to post it yesterday, today, tomorrow, and no doubt the next. The only one being obstreperous is you, rattling your monkey cage, and tossing out generalizations like feces. Indeed - 10 free Obamaphones. They are certainly more useful than your ramblings using one megaphone.
Anyone who says taxing the top 2% won't do it, is absolutely correct. Tax breaks though just do more damage and increases the deficit. What is true is taxing them alone won't do it, spending cuts are necessary and all breaks need to end, but right now middle America is dying out. While the top 2% can afford to be taxed, the tax breaks for now need to continue on the middle class. I still think either ending loopholes and deduction or capping them is going to be needed in addition.
The republican party is proving they learned nothing from the sweeping losses of the last election and they will continue to lose as long as they keep attacking middle America. They aren't letting up on that so all I can glean from their behavior since the election is that they are the most narcissistic jerks on the planet and really don't care why they lost. Frankly having the bedroom police in power really isn't my idea of a great free nation so they can keep losing.
The American people are getting Sick of the GOP's BS, Note to the Tea Loonies in Congress, don't mess with Middle Class Blue Collar Security Blankets, if you Clowns need money get it from your greedy mega rich buddies that got us into this horrible mess !!!!!!!!!!!!
Albany Joe,
You seem to be off topic. The subject of the day is which party's image will be tarnished the most if no deal is reached. Providing your thoughts on that topic would have been useful.
I personally would fault both the Republicans and the Democrats if no deal is reached. Both parties to some things right, and some things very wrong. Since there is room for improvement on both sides, they should be able to compromise.
Of course the issue of Privacy is extremely important, and it is great that you brought up to everyone's attention that the Federal Government is expanding the surveillance of private citizen. Thank you for the info.
Anyone who thinks $50-$90 billion is a win; has something rolling around upstairs. Our President is spending that much a week.
MikeSaint: Are you completely insane? Don't you think people like me, will adjust our salaries down below the $250,000 bench mark and funnel all else through our companies? Wouldn't you rather get 37% of my $800,000 then 45% of my newly reported income of $150,000?
Sorry mikey the president is not GOD he does NOT get to state what happens after OBLAMER takes us over the cliff. The tax hikes and spending CUTS are already set up. GET A CLUE.
The IGNORANCE is bliss mentality is shining bright on the left still.
We have only ourselves to blame for this mess. Since we put Boehner into office in the first place. We elected all those Republican House representatives so the buck stops with us, we the people. Now it is up to us to fix the issue. In two more years Boehner and his crones can be voted out. Maybe this time we get it right and fix the House so Hillary can run unopposed and do the things that need doing.
RedDev: No need for tomorrow, obviously you get my point and agree.
Brenda: What do you suggest? It's nice to critcize the GOP, but what would you do?
Don't you think Obama wants to go over the fiscal cliff. He and his liberal media spin machine will place all of the blame on the GOP, thus saving a few Dems in the next election. He'll get to raise taxes on ALL and not just the rich. And you and others will actully think it's not Obama's fault.
I see there are still many in the GOP desperately trying to blame the election win on getting free stuff. Why, look at John Peas and Queues - ignoring all the evidence and polling data claiming the GOP party is simply detested because of their WARS on social issues and their horrible track record in all matters fiscal.
One might only wonder if Boehner and his attack dogs in the photo above would "negotiate" with a Wall Street hotcha or CEO with such ambiguity. What precisely is the GOP BSing about now? These are not elected politicians...they are walking robots of CEOs...160 of them who pounced on the White House and Boehner this very week...And just why are these CEOs so hot to insure they don't have to pay their fair share? Does their wasteful spending in the hundred millions on Rip Van Romo's campaign remind you of anything?
And just who were some of the 160 CEO Pouncers? Goldman Sachs, DOW, Caterpillar, Weyerhauser, Aetna, Honeywell, RLJ and JP Morgan. That about rounds out just about the top US trough feeders from major US industries.
As for Boehner and his attack dogs...of course they only know how to cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security...there's trillions sitting there in surplus and these beady-eyed SOBs are hot to turn that into Worry Free Wall Street...where our payroll deductions become their ante for high risk investments without consequences...and you thought the Republicans were men of integrity? Think again of ye of the Middle Class naivete.
Have fun in prison for tax evasion Jack, the feds really need to crack down on that kind of criminal behavior. Fill the prisons with people like you and let the marijuana users go please. Do you know what threats usually do to me? Make me mad enough to vote against you, keep at it, a republican will never see the white house or senate control again.
Frankly people like you make me sick. You can take a pile of dung and wrapped all up in pretty paper and a bow but its still a big pile of poo. That is basically what the right to work law is, a big pile of poo with shiny name that only an idiot would support.
The country is divided. Some public is for the GOP, some for DEM.
I'm for balanced budget and not selling off to China. Sequestration is best option right now. Take the checkbook away from Obama who has spent $399.2 Billion in Afganistan for what? The death of one old arab sleeping with 3 harem girls? And consider the additional 2000 dead American soldiers. Just so this President can garner a reputation as a gunslinger?
Evaluate the Social Security Trust fund. Are those who have left I.O.U.s solvent and will they repay the fund upon demand?
I'm glad to see that most of the public is smart enough to appropriately assign blame for this fiasco at the feet of the offending party, that is the GOP.
Between the November election results and polls such as this, I'm beginning to think the American public has awoken from their slumber and started to pay attention to whats going on around them again. Way to go public, better late then never.
The usual suspects, Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Brooke Brower, the mouth pieces for the looney, left refuse to acknowledge that it was not taxing the people that led to this problem but the spending by the mostly democratic left that led to this massive imbalance.
No household or business could have gotten into this mess and be allowed to continue massive overspending. The banks or the creditors would have taken them down decades ago.
It was the overwhelming desire of mostly democratic politicians to buy the votes of the unintelligent, uneducated and very gullible public to keep them in office and make them millionaires. On average, today, each senator has a net worth of over $10,000,000 and each member of the house of representatives is worth $5,000,000.
If you remember this last presidential election, the amount spent on getting someone elected topped 1 billion dollars.
So yes, first reduce spending. Why should someone who worked for almost 50 years, accumulated a large estate, paid federal income taxes, state income taxes, sales taxes, real estates, gasoline taxes and a large number of hidden taxes also as proposed pay 55% estate taxes?
The president and congress have gone mad!!!
Anyone catch the Democrat Senator story yesterday? The illegal immigrant who was a sex offender?
Anyways, back on topic. We are broke, the country needs to cut everything. We are on the path to be just like Greece. Cut Cut Cut and raise everyones taxes.
I am glad I took Sarah off of ignore, this is exactly how I feel. Boehner is asking for specifics from the White House, but providing none of his own. I think the White House has been more forthcoming then Speaker Boehner ever has been.
Scott, social security is a GOP red herring. There is 2 trillion in that fund and the one thing Greenspan did do right was to secure that. The only entitlement that should be open to cuts is medicare, people spend their lives paying into a government pension plan and have no choice in it.
The problem is the nacissitic idiot in the White House who refuses to compromise or negotiate. A pox on these foolish polls!
Ewent, you follow the vain I think in...........the GOPygmies are run by Wall St. and corporations....FACT! I contract in the biotech industry and have seen these greedy, lying, crooked CEO's manipulate drug study results that spiked the stock to the moon...........oh yes, the BOD and investors were ELATED bc they made millions!! Oh btw, the CEO (I worked for him) who did this got convicted of two counts of felony wire fraud and is doing "hard time"........Not.....he has a leg bracelet on and is restricted to his 2M home in a large west coast city.......FACT: Pfizer Drugs was hit with the largest SEC fine (1.7B) a few years ago for off-label selling.........that is their bad bc you cannot sell your drug for an application that it was not designed for even though it works there.........they continued selling even after the news broke up until they really had to stop bc look at the millions made!! Oh the CEO of Pfizer was part of a panel of Biotech CEOs talking about 'ethics' in biotech......when this story broke..........oxymorons....big business and ethics......the law and justice (look at OJ)........GOPygmies and intelligience???? Sonny Bono said it, "and the beat goes on".
hs321......you said:
Well, republicans are sure fighting hard to keep that "insignificant amount of revenue" in the pockets of the 2%.
Why do you suppose that is? Fairness is never insignificant.
LiberalsAreTheWorst,
It is NOT possible for the US to be like Greece because we are a sovereign Nation, Greece is not.
GOTea demonstrate repeatedly that they don't give two poops about what the American people want. Be it bargaining in good faith for the middle class, be it lying about being the "party of fiscal responsibility" or be it forcing through surprise legislation (as in the case of poor Michigan), they have one goal in mind - power at any cost.
Umm, I think I answered that question just above you comment. I believe i said this:
As far as taxes, if they go up on everyone then it is the House GOP's responsibility. President Obama has said many times in the news, if you don't just listen to Fox news, that he is ready to sign the bill passed by the Senate already and is just sitting on Boehners desk gathering dust. If the taxes go up on everyone, then you only have Boehner and the GOP to blame. President Obama said he will not sign any bill that does not increase taxes on the top 2% making over 250k, he said nothing about under 250k except he is waiting for the House to pass the bill extending tax cuts for under 250k so he can sign it into law.
When is the GOP Tea Loonies going to stop Cherry picking the American People's S.S., & Health care and letting the 1% off the hook ????????????????
John Q ...
Really? What do you call the past two years and what Congress has been doing? We voted for 4 years of EXACTLY what you're seeing now. A President who will be backed into a corner by a bunch of pledge signing idiots.
Congrats NDD! So happy for you! 12-12-12 Great BD! My little darlin was born on 6-12-12!
Waves to Gingerbread Mama ... Hi! Happy to see you on the boards!
Nathan-1680585--- The continual pounding of the GOP is the reason they have a bad image not because they are ineffective. For the four years the Dems and their media puppets have continuously maintained that Republicans have blocked their every move. I say they are correct, the ineffectiveness of the Democratic party is obvious. Even with a majority for the first two years of the Obama administration the Dems have been unable to effectively break the leadership of the Republicans. So what does that leave the Dems? Media propaganda that's what, so for four years the Dems and their puppets have railed against the Republicans at every turn for everything that has gone wrong. Now the Dems jump out on their political creation and run it some more. I do not blame the lefties in their striving to become the party they want to be, but it has become apparent they can only blame for not making progress and stories like this article are perfect proof of it. I say that because upcoming elections are already driving Dems to start to separate themselves slowly and quietly from this administration.
There will be a deal and the media will laud the president as the winner but as stated it only exemplifies my point. This administration can only win if the Republicans let them, image or not.
Bill thomas, thus far the GOP has manipulated and bullied Obama, and it isn't saying much for Obama allowing it to happen. However, Obama really does not have to give into anything, and when the debt ceiling comes up again, he can test the fourteenth amendment to prevent a fiscal disaster.
Like it or not, the president has the power at this point and nothing to lose. Republicans need to stop insulting and posturing and consider their position. They have zero leverage here and you can say what you want but you are congratulating the fools in the tea party for just disagreeing with everything just to disagree. That isn't the mark of wisdom, just the mark of people too stupid to know what battles they should be having.
What....an NBC poll showing negative results for the GOP???? Oooooh, what a f**king surprise!!
Ugh, Boehner, you're the speaker of the house, do you really NOT know what the debt ceiling is??? You just lied again! The debt ceiling does NOT address the amount we spend, it addresses the amount we PAY BACK of the amount we already BORROWED and SPENT.
They can't change the electoral map rules, but most of the States are going GOP even if the Dems win the Presidency. Why you ask.
Look at PA & OH - The Dems won the popluar vote and won 4 seat, while the Republicans WON 14 Seats.
While they are taking total control of Democratic States we have our thumb up our ass saying we won the white house. And even there ONE PERSON can CLOG UP THE WHOLE COUNTRY. Why is this?
Americans better get there heads out there azz. That mean you white women they will come after the thing between your legs.
They can read the census, which states after 2030 whites will no longer contribute to the population growth. Meaning whites will start to lose power if whites don't vote for them. So in order to continue the population growth patterns pass 2030 they would have to ban all abortions even contraception. More whites have abortions than black or Latinos - NOW DO YOU GET THE REASONING BEHIND THIS CRAZY BEHAVIOR? If you don't I do.
I'm not sure what can stem the tide if the GOP is controlling more and more states while getting crushed by the popular vote.
California Tom
Mayan end of the world is 12-21-12 at 11:11 UTC.
Still ahead of us...
Wow is all I can say to you Bill. If you have been reading the news you would have seen that President Obama has compromised. He went from 1.6 Trillion in revenue to 1.4 trillion. Also he went from 400 billion to 600 billion in spending cuts. Question is what has the GOP House done to compromise? Nothing, they offered the same offer that they gave him prior to the Presidents compromise. TRY READING FOR A CHANGE.
Who cares about image. Much of that is media driven anyway. It's the substance and ideologies of the parties that matter. Both parties need to stick to their guns. Both parties need to then compromise on their differences. We the voters need to accept the fact that both parties are relevant and necessary for due process. If you don't believe that, get some books and study political science over the holiday.
For those of you that believe the only way to survive is to destroy the opposition, you had better re-evaluate. There will always be an opposition party regardless of what its name is. That is the beauty of our system. Without this simple principal we have no freedom of choice. It is what makes us great. To destroy this principal and political system means you destroy our culture, our society and our constitutional rights.
I think Washington often forgets why they need to co-exist and how they even evolved. Always a good point for reflection in difficult times.
Sarah, the debt ceiling has to be raised, constitutionally we cannot accrue debt and not pay it back. This was passed right after the civil war, debts can't be erased. As republicans cry about defense spending cuts its them that have led us to the point that its mandatory. All republicans do is make messes and then lie about who made them.
Patriotic Leftist American:
Are you insinuating that Tea Party members are not American People????
Because military contractors are huge GOP donors. Because military contractors locate their plants in heavily GOP districts. Because there are huge military bases in Red States. Because the GOP doesn't consider their spending "entitlements". Because the GOP considers all their "freebies" acquired through their hard work. Because the typical GOP voter doesn't pay attention to the FACT that the politicians they put in office want to take away their Medicare and Social Security. Because maintaining 100% of a tax cut for 98% of us isn't good enough. Because half of that remaining 2% would actually get half of the tax cut is not good enough. Because billiionaires want to seize the government through illegal means of voter suppression, gerrymandering, and destroying our democracy. Because the religious crazies see a chance to step in and take the place of the government in running entitlements and institute "faith based" requirements to control people.
Jan: Dropping ones salary to whatever they drop it to is not tax evasion you idiot. And when a national accounting firm lays out legal options to circumvent some of the President's insanity, it would be insane not to listen.
I think bitter people like yourself, who have obviously underachieved, or has done nothing positive might want to put a lid on her remarks. Re-read your post. Nice intellectual phrasing there, good job. And you're criticizing a right to work law; that pretty much sums you up. Go smoke another doob, eat a few Twinkies that you have stored up, and wait for the mailman to bring my tax dollars to your door. Merry X-Mass.
And I'm sure since your life is so miserable, you need to blame someone else, right? Isn't that how it works, blame someone else for you lifetime of failures and miserable existence?
I am going with my own proposal for the fiscal cliff.
What else gang?
@DingleB#1.78: Interest rates are tied directly to employment. Won't begin to go up until there is considerable improvement in the employment sector. Once the jobs and wages situation begins to show measured strength, then interest rates will indeed increase correspondingly. We need this to happen, since this is the surest and best way to begin reducing our debt and managing deficits. It's another reason why we don't need to reduce entitlements. Respectfully
solutions-wow racist much?
You are wrong, it would be very difficult with the changing demographics for the republicans to win the senate. While they can still take seats in the south and other more conservative states, the senate requires a much larger voter base than the house. Dems gained seats this last election, and they had 30 seats up for election, republicans only had 10. It was a net loss 55/45 now in favor of the democratic caucus.
If you are getting your information from fox news, you might consider how WRONG they were on everything about the election in predicting it.
Here's the deal...
The president politcally out played them. By putting his deal on the table first, he was able to put the GOP in a position where they HAD to be specific about the "entitlement" and spending cuts they "want". However, the GOP is fast learning that rhetoric that stirs a small section of the population, by playing on their superiority issues, does NOT good politics make. The GOP doesn't want to be specific because they know their "specifics" will be political suicide. So they're trying to spin this every way but Sunday.
Basically, they're a bunch of fakes right now. They pander to a section of their party and now can't live up to their pandering.
lol Dennis... I you missed the point of this statement.... Obama is quickly putting us in the same economic 'condition' as Greece is... mostly because of failed socialist policies! Doesn't matter if Greece and the USA are different in other areas... regarding the paying of our debt we are very very much alike.. we're both f'ck'd!
Maybe I dont understand the situation. Norquist Rs. pledge not to raise taxes, but will allow the reinstatement of taxes when the Bush tax cuts expire, thereby raising taxes on everyone. What have I missed here? It seems like more could be accomplished with a little more common sense, I know ,its a rare comodity in DC.
jack I am a nurse, I have achieved what I wanted to in life. Being rich, isn't one of those things I aimed to achieve. However, dropping how much you make to support your wife, mistress and nanny will hurt you more than me so go ahead. Drop your salary, like I care. Just make sure the expenses you put on your corporate credit card are business related.
Funny how you people always think the rest of America is jealous, that is your go to talking point. We are beggers, we are jealous. Why in the world would I be jealous of a jerk like you...I went to nursing school from high school and have held steady work since. Don't tell me I am a begger, because I paid for my college, how much did your daddy give you?
"Bonehead is Stuck in the 19th hole" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At Dennis from Columbus
You argue that the problem is the GOP won't propose the cuts. Yet, in the same breath, you claim that is because there is NO WHERE government can cut spending.
So let me ask you this Dennis, what do you believe Obama means when he says he want a balanced and fair approach that includes spending cuts? Is he just making up some imaginary claims too?
Seriously??? Both parties agree cuts need made. Democrats need to present what THEY are willing to cut. They had no problem suggesting WHO they want to take money FROM when it comes to increasing tax on the wealthy. So WHO are they willing to take it FROM when it comes to the cuts that even Democrats agree are needed.
I think Sarah's image of the snake devouring itself is most accurate. I hope somebody is writing all this down and keeping good records because if the trend continues there is going to one hell of a book analyzing all this at some point in the future. The GOP is destroying themselves and they have only themselves to blame.
The GOP have always been very thin-skinned when it comes to news reports which they consider "negative". Watergate was a good example and also the watershed moment for these beliefs and led to the myth of the "liberal east coast elitist media". Never mind that the Watergate scandal as reported by Woodward and Bernstein (and Dan Rather) was accurate and contained unique insider information provided by their source "Deep Throat."
So, to address this mythical media bias Ronald Reagan got THE FAIRNESS DOCTRINE set aside in 1987which immediately gave birth to Rush Limbaugh and a few years later FOX NEWS. These propagandists with their conservative slant were supposed level the playing field for the poor, oppressed GOP and defend them from the leftist, liberal, main stream news operations. But it did so much more.
For the past 25 years the country has drifted slowly and steadily to the right, thanks to the propagandists at FOX and Limbaugh and his many imitators. Spurred by their success they have become more and more blatant in their biased reporting even engaging in outright lies which is eagerly lapped up by their listeners and viewers as "news" and "entertainment".
We were led to the virtual brink of disaster. We stared into the abyss, shuddered and the nation took a step back in 2008. Undeterred, the GOP doubled down and believed with the aid of their propagandists they could overcome their initial defeat. They were encouraged in this belief by their overwhelming victory in the mid-term elections. They were unapologetic in their disregard for 98% of the American people even getting sizeable numbers of that 98% to vote against their own enlightened self-interest. Afterall, they were successful in getting the wealthy MORE than their one man one vote with their Citizens United decisions. How could they lose?
Once again we were led to the brink of disaster and in even bigger numbers than before we said "NO."
But the GOP continues to nibble at their own tail. They have spawned a generation of true believers who will not let them go back. They have been listening to their own propaganda and now, to quote Shakespeare, they are "foist on their own petard." We would have to hire a MILLION professional de-programers to undo the harm done to this nation by Ronald Reagan and his offspring, Rush Limbaugh and FOX News and all their imitators.
The last time we came this close to disaster was the McCarthy era and the Communist witch hunts of the 1950's. In 1960 we stepped back. We did so again in 2008 and in 2012.
We're going through a phase of adjustment right now. We're not moving "left", we're moving back to the center which is where our government works at it's most efficient level. I guess since we are moving away from the RIGHT, that technically we're moving toward the left but only in order to return us to the center, where we belong. Where EVERYBODY gets a seat at the table and EVERYBODY gets to have a say, not just one side or the other.
Despite the rabid claims of FOX news and Rush Limbaugh, President Obama is a centrist and he is doing a very good job as our President. But you sure wouldn't think so if all you listened to was FOX and friends.
So, I say, good riddance. Let the GOP devour themselves. They have done enough harm to this nation and very nearly led us into an unthinkable darkness. The fiscal cliff is nothing compared to where the GOP would have led us if they had defeated President Obama in either 2008 or 2012. As far as I'm concerned they can go to hell and good riddance.
That said....
Christmas came early for me, on November 6th. I got a second small gift when Senator DeMinto decided to leave the Senate and I will get the best gift of all when the GOP is relegated to the role of "lunatic fringe" over the next two years.
We are once again on the right track. We're headed back to the middle. The only way we'll be able to stay there is to silence the nattery nabobs of the right wing propagandists and to somehow de-program their ditto-head devotees.
I hope someone has the courage and the knowledge to report on what has happened to America in the last quarter century and why and how it happened and the dark tragedy that we would have become if the majority of us hadn't had the courage and conviction to say "NO". I think we deserve the title of "Greatest Generation" as well as our heroes of World War II. I believe we fought the same darkness they did and won a great victory for humanity with a lot less bloodshed.
Happy Holidays everybody and a Happy New Year. Once again, our future looks bright.
on the edge, republicans have no say here. Continuation of the tax breaks requires the senate and White house and they are not going to get it on the top 2%. Its up to the republicans if they want to bury themselves with their electorate in 2014 by raising everyones payroll taxes. Frankly I am with Bloomberg on this, all the taxes should go up. Spending has to be cut, and CEO's need to stop being complete jerks and threatening people. They say Obama caused that? No they are the ones making threats right and left, if they think Obama turned people against them, they are sadly mistaken. All we see is the GOP wanting to cut revenue as our deficit rises dramatically. The solution everyone has to fiscal problems is going to their boss and asking for a pay cut...seriously...Obama just needs to watch them bury themselves.
To all those saying it is not the Presidents/Senates Job to submit a budget. I contend it is on their shoulders cause the House HAS SUBMITTED budgets:
In May 2012 after soundly rejecting the Presidents budget proposal 99-0 the Senate proceeded to reject the House's budget proposal actually there were 3 different proposals that the Senate rejected. So it has been over 3+ years since the Senate has voted favorably on ANY budget proposal. I contend that the problem lies in the Senate NOT WITH BOEHNER and the House.
UPDATE - The Senate has defeated the House-passed Ryan budget, 41-58. I counted five Republicans joining Democrats in voting it down, at least one of whom voted no because it doesn't go far enough. Democrats voted in lockstep against this budget, as they have on every proposed budget for the last three years. Head-to-head tally: Paul Ryan 41 - Barack Obama 0
UPDATE II - The Senate has defeated Senator Pat Toomey's (R-PA) budget resolution, 42-57. This is the seventh consecutive proposed Senate budget that has failed to attract even one Democrat vote.
UPDATE III - The Senate has rejected the two remaining GOP budget alternatives, authored by Senators Lee (17-82) and Paul (16-83). Harry Reid's Senate once again goes oh-fer on budgets, in an age of $16 Trillion debt, a national credit downgrade, and a struggling economy. Disgraceful.
Here is the BIGGER issue of which bozo has NO PLAN! As usual. Just demonize and point fingers and blame it on someone else. This IS his problems along with everything else that he cant figure out. He is so over his head and this country is paying and will continue to pay the price.
(CNSNews.com) - The so-called real unemployment rate fell slightly in October, going from 14.7 percent to 14.6 percent, according to a report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics Friday.
This rate is a more comprehensive picture of those who are unemployed or underemployed.
Known as the U-6 rate, this measure combines those traditionally counted as unemployed, those counted as underemployed – holding part-time jobs for economic reasons, and those marginally attached to the labor force.
It is considered a more comprehensive measure of the employment pictures because it includes those two additional figures along with the traditional unemployment rate – giving a more thorough look at the impact of the economy on employment.
The U-6 rate was unchanged from August to September at 14.7 percent, after falling from as high as 15 percent in July. However, the rate has been little changed all year, hovering in a range between 15.1 to 14.5 percent.
The Labor Department, in its final jobs report before the election, said the nation's unemployment rate went up a tenth of a point in October to 7.9 percent, as U.S. employers added 171,000 jobs.
This is what I said as well. If the Republicans want to get anything out of a deal before they lose everything, they may want to take the Presidents offer or make a serious, as Boehner likes to say, offer. Time for grandstanding is over. If we go over the cliff, President Obama gets what he wants by default. If we make a deal, then both sides get a little of what they want and we the people don't have to suffer.
Pride & Joy,
Enough with the over dramatics. Obama is NOT calling for anything remotely close to what Greece had kicking prior to their debt crisis. And, by the way, the reason Greece exploded was because of extreme austerity.
Pride and Joy,
You can compare California to Greece
You can compare the USA to Japan
But you cannot compare the USA to Greece
Heindl do your homework before posting crap. Yes Obama submitted a budget and so did the republicans in the house. While I didn't fully read Obamas the one the republicans introduced was a joke. They knew it would never get by the senate. Even moderate republicans in the senate said they would not sign that budget because it raised defense spending when the pentagon said its safe to start cutting and completely gutted the social system. If you want to come to the table, have something worth looking at.
I am at the point that I would rather see us go over the so called cliff, this way taxes go up and government spending will go down, everyone pays, and everyone sacrifices something. The bottom line is that it is time to stop spending, cut people off the governments tit, and finally stop us from going further into debt.
I am amazed how people state the GOP has not outlined any spending cuts they want when they have been giving detailed list again and again and all they get is all of that is untouchable. Go over the cliff and everything faces cuts and no amount of posturing will stop it.
Fox news much?
The solution is so simple. All Republicans in the House need to do is pass a bill extending all Bush era tax cuts permanently, pass spending cuts, and put forth closing loopholes. The bill will pass along party lines and die in the Senate where Harry Reid will not allow it a vote. Then Republicans will allow the Democrats to pass an extension of the Bush era tax cuts for all but the top earners by simply voting present so that it passes only with Democrats in support. When the American people realize that didn't solve anything, then Republicans can press Democrats for a real solution if they can come up with one. Let Democrats be known as the party of higher taxes, even when those increases were never meant to solve anything.
In reponse to:
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
Works for me!
My point is, the laser focus by the GNOP on slashing social "security nets" is disgusting!
There is plenty of "bloat" to attack without taking from those who paid into the system...
---Please explain to me how an 18y/o who has never held a job but just had a child while still living at their parents house, has 'paid into the system'. The military has already made cuts and started making even more in preperation of this disaster from our 'leaders'.
When you pay your bills at home, you know; rent, electric, cell phone, internet... Do you just ignore the red ink on the check ledger or do you cut back on dining out, unnecessary trips to the store, i.e smart decisions to make sure that you don't go bankrupt? Please explain how you think it's justifiable to continously write checks with red ink and expect someone else to pick up the bill? What will happen if the ceiling is raised again? When is too much debt, too much? It's already dangerously close to that level. What was the number last time, .33 of every dollar our government spends is borrowed?
I would LOVE to hear your justification because the red ink speaks for itself in my opinion. My check book is in the black still.
While this is a welcomed relief, the majority should not be needed to secure equal marriage rights for gays/lesbians. Now, its on to SCOTUS to remind us, that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness belongs to ALL Americans. They will uphold that marriage is a CIVIL RIGHT.
Rick, they are not going to extend those cuts for the top 2% stop saying that as if that will happen. Obama will let everyones end before he allows that to happen. Those breaks 10 years later, what have they done for us? Oh yes a 16 trillion dollar deficit...we do need to cut spending but not just entitlements, we spend four times any other nation does on defense. Its a ludicrous waste of money.
When asked all Speaker Boehner can say is "Look, i'm not going to get into specifics with you. It is time for the White House to get serious." Too funny. He wants the White House to get real specific, but he himself will not.
Do the republicans really need specifics? It seems to me, they would like to drastically cut the budget/overspending. Isn't it the job of the president to produce a budget? (not congress?)
If they're telling him they would like him to cut spending so that it will actually make a difference in the enormous deficit which exists and continues to grow, and then Obama presents a spending platform that (in the opinion of, at least, republicans) does not really do anything to cut any deficit spending, do you blame them for saying no? It's not really amount specific cuts, it's about the AMOUNT of cuts, right? I don't know why the congress is being asked to specifically cut spending out of the budget, when that's the predisent's job, right? Or am I missing something? Isn't the whol poitn of this that the president presents a budget, and if (in the opinion of congress) it is not good, they say "no" then he tries again? Also, if the spending/deficit is such an important factor in our economy right now, it makes sense they'd be concerned with the president's budget being too big (again)
Hasn't he done this basically every year, and it's been disapproved (by both sides?)
JH - YOU are the epitome of stupid. Entitlements have grown under President Obama because of a horrible recession - therefore - more people needed help to survive. You honestly don't possess rational thought, do you?????
askaboutet, honestly our school system has failed completely if you don't understand the three branches of government and what their roles are in it. The house holds the purse strings, they are the ones that are supposed to present a passable budget to the senate and send it to the white house. NO its not Obamas job to hold republicans dicks while they pee. As much as you all think he should.
heindl
you need to school yourself on how budget process works:
president only submits a proposal ( a wish list) and only signs it once passed. He has been submitting the proposals.
So not to bore everyone, I'll simplify it: the House and Senate Budget Committees, whose primary function is to draft and enforce the budget resolution holds hearing to question Admin officials about the requests and then develops its own budget resolution. Once the committees are done, their budget resolutions go to the House and Senate floors, where they can be amended (by a majority vote). A House-Senate conference then resolves any differences, and a conference report is passed by both houses.
If passed, President signs.
because it was not the Presidents EXACT proposal but one changed by the GOP. The fact that NO DEM voted for it should have been a screeming red flag...but you are so naive that believe that it's a + for the Reps and a - for Dems.
hahahhahahahhahaha - nice try. counting Republican votes as points...hahahahhahaha
Obama = president; Paul Ryan = Sarah Palin
your other updates are as good as Boner's " negotiating" skills - a big steaming pile of crap. Boner's "proposal" is pretty much: keep Bush tax cuts to benefit the 2%, and cut everything that affects the 98%
it is Boner's problem as long as he is the SoH.
The GOP: A Conglomerante; Ghouls of Plutocracy. This carousel of fools would rather sacrifice what's best for the good of the nation and grasp with both hands, the minuscule "strong-hold" of superfluous delay; the perceived leverage they hope that will bend the mandate the American citizens voted for on, Election Day: 6 Nov 12.
The constant blood-letting during the President's first term by way of "Silent Filibuster" and now in the aftermath of the election from procrastination on the "Hill" to individual states of our great United States, like Ohio who promptly went about the task of redistributing funds for family planning; and Michigan--where Gov Snyder sucker-punched his state by "secretly" pushing through "Right to Work" (Right to Get Fired because of your color, race, sex, religion and whatever else I don't like about you) Law.
All across America, "We the People" are asked to do more with less; while up on "The Hill" they are doing less with more.
the military industrial complex employes not only soldiers but thousands of civilians and the civies would be the first to go which would put alot more people on gov support. the only good road i see is stop foreign aide and other hand outs to politicians and close all loop holes in the tax code. why don't the gov ever consider these options? the gov has successfully turned american citizens against each other which will lead to the destruction of a once great nation. people like fiesty,alaskagirl,pigo and seeking only make fun of the repubs with nothing good to say and follow the leader blindly so why don't yous guys say something creative for a change
brenda1964, dont read very well dooo ya. look at the verrrry first of it. it says "cnsnews.com". Typ. lib. just blathering.
we have gone through this in 1993 under Clinton. Clinton wanted to increase the taxes on the top 1.2% but the Republicans said no.
So Clinton got the bill passed WITHOUT A SINGLE REPUBLICAN VOTE. And Clinton was the only president in our modern history who had a surplus. Reagan, Bush1, and Bush2 ran deficits EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
What's the difference between 1993 and 2012? The Tealiban occupying the House....
But the Republicans call themselves "fiscally responsible"???? Bunch of lying hypocrites!
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL "PS: Say Roy Wilson, you ran off again yesterday when I asked you to support your claim of the boards I have been banned from!"
Unlike you, I actually have work to do, so I can't spend all of my days blogging. I left for work shortly after I posted my comments yesterday, so I missed your 'question', but when did I state that you were 'banned'?
By the way - Obama seems to think that he has a 'mandate' to increase taxes and spending because he won this year, but isn't it equally true that the Republicans in the House can claim a 'mandate' to control spending and taxes since they also won?
And just so you know, I'm leaving to do some work now, so if you have any more 'questions', you might ask them when I'm able to respond.
Once our government strips Texas of all weapons, I am totally for letting them cede. Just make sure we don't have a bunch of teatards running around with guns, and nuclear capability trying to come after us. Then the drug lords can have them, I say build one big wall there too. We wouldn't want them filthy maggots sneaking in.
It's both sides screwing with America - equally
Neither is serious - just talk, smoke and mirrors
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
All you buffoons believe that our criminal government can fix this massive disaster they created? You're more gullible than the useful idiots in the European Union that believe that their governments can fix their massive fiscal and monetary mess.
As much as there will be the typical hand-wringing, finger-pointing and accusations from both sides nothing of substance will get done. The tax increases both personal, and the latest distraction by Democrats about including corporate rates in the debate, will have significant impacts. Incentives to work more, save money, invest and create jobs will all be affected. Continuation of the double taxation of dividends and capital gains should outrage everyone. Unfortunately most Americans have no ideal how much it affects them.
Taking into account the Obamacare-related tax hikes, the payroll-tax holiday will end and millions of Americans will be dragged into the indecipherable swamp of the Alternative Minimum Tax, there will be significant "cause and effect" for everyone.
Even if we let all the Bush tax cuts end on everyone it won't pay for 1/2 of the projected deficits.
We need Draconian spending cuts. But even this will do little for the biggest drivers of our debt.
Entitlement programs, the welfare state and our unacceptable waste, fraud, abuse and corruption are the biggest problems we face.
These bombs won't necessarily explode this year or next year but they will within the next 10 years. If these problems are not addressed we will go through a Greek style fiscal collapse. Both the Bank for International Settlements and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development indicate the future burden of US spending will climb so high that we'll be in worse shape than Europe's welfare states.
We keep focusing on the National Debt and shooting spitballs at that thinking it will cure all our ills. Although a $16.3 trillion Debt is unsustainable and unmanageable the real 800 pound gorilla is the $123 trillion in unfunded liabilities. And that's after adjusting for inflation. Of course the politicians claim this inevitable responsibility isn't a problem, all they have to do is raise taxes. That's exactly what Europe's welfare states tried, it didn't work!
To make it as simple as possible, even huge tax hikes won't stem the flow of red ink in the long run if government keeps growing faster than the private economy. The more we shackle the private sector with irrational taxes, crippling regulations and other government intrusions the more we will struggle through another "Lost Decade".
This contagion isn't simply a federal government problem. The states have over $4 trillion dollars in unfunded pension liabilities. We are seeing cities become insolvent because the spending exceeds revenue.
We know none of the cowards in Congress will make the significant decisions to fix anything, they all have to worry about the most important thing in the world for them, re-election!
Once the status quo is no longer sustainable, the "bond vigilantes" will be the ones in charge. Once they cut up Washington's credit card, it won't be a pretty situation.
Compared to that scenario, the fiscal is a walk in the park.
...and what universe does the person making this statement belong to?
Austerity measures have upset Greece's version of our 47%ers... that the cause of the riots. But Greece's problems began a while ago with over spending by the gov't on social programs to keep these folks quiet. How'd that turn out for them.... O'bama is making the same mistakes Greece did, but his mistakes have a lot more zeros after the $ sign!
I am an independent voter and my POLL shows that both the Dem and the GOP are over the cliff.
Toss out both Parties in congress and start over with a moderate party!
Robin,
Do you really think that social programs that we contribute to and we ARE capable of paying for through increased revenue, through both raising rates and closing loopholes/corporate welfare, is similar to the overwhelming programs they had in Greece?
We have the world's largest economy, Greece did not. Nor our the programs you're complaining about comparable to what Greece had.
Jim Spence, Obama wants to continue the breaks for those under 250k, enough with the drama queen "the world is ending" blathering.
We are at historic low tax rates, tax breaks has never shown to grow an economy, every independent study suggests quite the opposite. All we are talking about is letting breaks that were meant to expire, expire as scheduled. You are correct about the spending but corporate welfare costs us far more than food stamps. Stop the subsidies, top foreign aid and cut defense spending. We need to stop believing that war is a way of life.
Robin please tell me specifically how Obama is heading us that direction? It was extreme austerity and tax evasion that actually killed Greece...I want to hear you justify that kind of uneducated blather. Talking points, is there not a republican that can reach outside fox news talking points?
Mac Forrester
I believe what you are saying is that 1) Interest rates will go up when unemployment goes down 2) Debt will be paid down when more people are employed 3) No need to pay down the debt now. Am I right?
The federal reserve is not the only factor afffecting the interest rates on government debt. It is possible for rates to rise without a decrease in unemployment. Also, the federal government should not be willing to take a wait and see approach to our fiscal crisis. It is entirely possible that unemployment doesn't significantly drop, and even if it did, there is no guarantee that the resulting increase in revenue would be sufficient to pay down the debt.
Our debt is quickly becoming the biggest threat to national security and our way of life. We are beholden to countries who are not our allies and with whom we compete in a global market. Not if, but when interest rates increase, our ability to borrow in order to maintain current spending levels will end. The cuts necessary at that point will be drastic, and go far deeper than what would be needed to balance the budget and start paying off the debt now. We cannot just rely on a hope for better employment in the future.
Jan - ugh, very bad visual!
Jan,
Actually he wants to keep the current tax rate on the first $200K/$250K of ALL taxable income.
Well...simple to see why the repubs are gone to hell with the middle class...they don't give a damn about them....Why?...Because the 1-2% at the top like Romney have still been making money no matter how bad the republicon image is...they have been moving forward with huge profits off the backs of the middle class.
Why would they stop?...It's profit city for them everyday until laws are changed to stop all their profiteering off the middle class.
Teabaggers and republicans middle class level, somehow believe they have something in common with the rich 1-2% . THEY DON"T!!!!!! For some reason....they vote against themselves, they vote against more jobs in America, they vote against vets and middle class and poor who have lost everything because of the greedy rich......they vote against color of skin....
The republicons took the nation over the cliff already just to give the 1% tax breaks...they sure as hell will do it again....they will make more profits right up to the action needed...why would they not? Rt wingers support them in their need for greed!!!
Well, well well, Johnny Boner. You've done gone and boned yourself with help from your own party.
You Republican dim-wits can find plenty of money to throw at two wars and tax breaks for your wealthy friends (Mitt Rob-me and the like) who somehow find it not only easy to hide their money in foreign accounts to avoid taxes but get their capital gains taxed at whale sh-t low rates while at the same time telling aunt Millie and Uncle Bob that they are leaches gouging the government out of Medicare funds they paid for throughout their hard working lives.
You make me wanna puke, Johnny Boner. You and your buddies Paul ream-me Ryan and the other Fifth Element group of "Capitalists."
Sorry SeekingSanity but every time I hear republicans whine, cry and complain that Obama has not done the job that the house is supposed to do it sounds like that is what they expect from him. We have a congress that is totally inept and unwilling to work together. We have people who say no to everything just to say no, there is no reason to it, they don't pick the battles that need fighting. They fight everything and its completely stupid. The biggest sign of hope I have had is that Boehner fired the four tea party idiots from finance committees so they could get something done.
Spider, tea bags are not patriotic Americans they are traitors to our way of life and our health and well being as Americans. They are a danger to this country, the last two years of obstruction to even the basic things in congress is proof. While most were probably born here they care nothing for this country. In words you stench right wing idiots understand, you suck.
360 filibusters in 4 years, that isn't just an unprecedented number, its a number completely outrageous. I mean seriously McConnell? You introduce a bill and then filibuster yourself? LOL Dems called your bluff and voted to support it. McConnell and Boehner are bad leaders, but I wouldn't say Reid or Pelosi are much better.
I think we need a constitutional amendment making it so they are not eligible for reelection if the budget isn't passed and balanced.
HUMMMMM Ideology and America
You believe in America so much you would kill your own people not by war but economic means. Does that remind you of any other country with a deep ideological thoughts?
What difference does it make if you kill the economy by ideology or war the end results are the same people will die fast or slow, mental or physical, starvation or bullet it makes no difference.
It's Not what America has to figure out its what each individual has to figure out. Which is if America should die based on one persons set of beliefs?
Cultural conditioning continues to halt any the logical thought process in America.
If your beliefs kill people what good are they? Do anyone have a moral obligation to help one another or as Ayn Rand used to say survival of the fittest should take all they can take. Any thing I can't carry should die or eat cake. (Die slow or fast)
Jan: A nurse? I sure hope it's your day off, or you've got quite a few bed pans that need changing, as you've been whining and crying on here for quite some time.
The GOP fell off of their own cliff during Bush's Reign, and now they are stuck in their own deep treacherous hole of Selfish Racism.
Until they decide to get over their own personal agendas they will continue to sink within their self made hole while the rest of us down with them!
They have failed miserably in their role, thus I truely feel that one of the best ways to Save in this country is Yes to take their free bennies away effective immediately. They can afford their own health care--so let them pay for it on their own. They also afford their own vacations, but have failed to earn those designated quarterly 3-4 week breaks---thus take those Breaks down to 2-4 weeks max per year. LEt them work for their bennies, over that of just sitting there illustrating their contempt for the President of the USA through looks and body language and perpetrating their own SAY NO AGENDA!
You wanted him to fail, but he has not---You Have!!
Boehner is your biggest failure, maybe he cried when elected for he knew he could not handle the importance of his new role. In fact all Boehner has shown of himself is that of a selfish bully with racial issues!
Its funny how the right has taken up with the ideas of an atheist that died on government assistance...She tells them greed is good, she tells them that poor people are like stray animals. You don't feed them, because they will multiply. Where is the ethics in this? There is zero regard for human life, unless you are a fetus. Once you are out of the womb, screw you, you are on your own to find your way in this world. We are the wealthiest nation on earth and have some of the highest child hunger rates.
I have asked you for an answer on this repeatedly, strange how you conveniently always have to get back to work... lol
ROY WILSON-336103
#1.129 - Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:10 PM CST
You can only hide for so long Roy... lol
Put up or STFU!
Yes Jack, it is my day off. And trying to put me down won't work, go bully one of your employees. I really don't care what a pompous jerk thinks of me.
Omfg! Stop posturing and just get it done! Try running the government instead of shutting it down for political agenda. This debt ceiling should have been a routine thing and a non-issue. Instead, it was made into a hostage situation and bargaining point for political agenda on both sides at the threat of the country's expense. I'm tired of the childish bickering and months of stalling and going nowhere. QUIT PUSSY-FOOTING AROUND AND JUST DO THE GOD DAM JOBS THE PEOPLE VOTED YOU IN TO DO IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That goes for Republicans and Democrats alike.
Hey Spider #1.121, the Tea Loonies are Communist Clowns from Venus !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree... but let's add one more thing to that: Tax the churches.
We do what you posted, AND tax the churches, the deficit and debt will be solved in 5 years... and everyone can have their income tax cut.
Problem solved
Hey, okie58 who writes (#1.153)
Yeah, I am back. Do you miss me or what?
But the military-industrial complex only cares about its own selfish profits and government subsidies have fed these lazy and greedy corproations and military contractors that have sucked the blood out of regular folks and caused many wars around the world.
Definitely tax the churches, they whine and complain about their first amendment rights being restricted. No one asked them to apply for tax exempt status, if they want to preach politics pay your freaking taxes.
It is simple economics. You can't keep taxing the people who are intelligent, hard-working and ambitious while at the same time keep enslaved a population that is lazy, with no work ethic and willing to get "free" government money in exchange for votes. People need to WORK FOR THEIR MONEY - they are NOT entitled to demand that the government make others work for them. DUH!
If you think it's fair for a person who works hard (10-12 hour days) in order to provide well for their family to have to work 5 months of the year to pay for the deadbeat losers who want a free handout then you are obviously one of the people who is coasting through life or you don't have the IQ to better your condition.
I can't believe no one is quoting Obama from the debates. He said his plan includes $2.5 in CUTS for every $1 in new revenue. Yet his proposal which he will not do any serious negotiating on is $4 in REVENUE for every $1 in cuts, plus allowin gthe president to raise the debt ceiling at will. Of course, his worshippers will ignore his lies from the campaign because the media has his back...
Wow Seymour, do they pay you to deliver that sort of pathetic America hating tripe? In case you didn't get it, pay is not based on how much you are taxed, its based on education and skill. Now clearly you are not one of those high IQ people that work so hard, no I take that back, you probably do work hard for low wages.
Right to work states have the highest poverty rates, when you don't pay enough for your employees to meet cost of living expenses, they end up on government assistance. So Millions of hard working people are on public assistance because people like you are dumb enough to vote for the GOP. While you shoot the rest of America in the head, here moron go move to Somalia or Iran, I think their ways of life is much more suited to the fascist tea party mind.
hs321
thanks for that link, it was a good find.
I really like this part of the piece:
Jan-21270 if you cannot comprehend my post just say so. That might have prevented you from flying off on some tangent that was not at all what I said or implied. But typical of the uninformed that continues to spew that the Bush tax cuts are why we have have a 16 trillion dollar national debt. How do you reconcile your spewing of 16 trillion with the Bush tax cuts on the top earners only generating 86 billion in revenue per year? The fact is since 2001 the Bush tax cuts for the top 5% of wage earners lowered federal revenues by just over 1 trillion dollars. Less then 100 billion per year, and that is the rally cry for why Obama has the nation steaming toward a 20 trillion dollar national debt. Try doing the math next time before spewing nonsense.
The whole situation in our government spending is PROOF in itself that NEITHER party willing to do what has to be done.BOTH parties are more inerested in there AGENDAS than doing the right thing.give a little take a little right?HELL NO it's do things my way,OR ELSE!!!!Bot parties are saying the same thing.
Seymour
RELAX... Over the last 30 years, the poor have ween their share of the wealth DECREASE, while the rich have seen their share INCREASE.
That means, as a percent of all the wealth, those "lazy" poor people that you hate are getting LESS of the overall wealth than they were 30 years ago. While the "hard working" rich are getting MORE of it.
By the way... when you are successful at taking ALL of the money from the poor and middle class, to give to the rich, who will be left to buy the products the rich are making in their businesses?
Yes, both sides are screwing us and it is our fault for voting them in and not pushing for term limits for all public offices. Anyone who thinks a politician has our best interest at heart is fooling themselves. These are lawyers and like anyone else, want to keep their job, so they will do and say whatever it takes to keep their job. We really need to hold politicians acountable.
Blogging is cool and all but we as a people need to batter our media outlets into turning what the politicans say into the truth and not just parrot what they are saying while supporting what they are saying with additional spin. This is an NBC site so it biased towards democrats, just like most of the other media outlets, and Fox is biased towards republicans. Unfortunately, for most Americans, we get our information from the media outlets and so the spin turns into what we know (or think we know).
Here is an example. Democrats are saying the top 2% need to pay their fair share and want to increase the rates on them to accomplish that. However, we have a tax system with a tax rate meaning the more you make the more you pay which already creates a "FAIR SHARE". So what the Democrats actually want is for the top 2% to pay more than their fair share....why isn't this what is being said in the media. Forget that the top 2% worked for their money just like everyone else, they should pay more just because. Also, while the democrats are lying and saying they should pay their fair share (re: more than their fair share), they are turning right around a touting how much the rest of us can save by keeping our tax cuts, which really means...wait for it, not paying our fair share. So that is what should be said...the current administration wants the top 2% (also hard working Americans or they wouldn't have become successful) to pay more than their fair share and the other 98% to not pay their fair share because that is the truth.
It is not being said that way but even if people sort of get what is going on, it does not take a genius to figure out who the majority would agree with even if it is not fair. It is hard to figure out how anyone but a Democarat gets elected with that kind of game plan...it favors 98% of the people. Again, the politician doesn't actually care if it is good for the country, it is just a great way to get elected and vote for your own pay raises.
I can't believe that the press, or even fellow Democrats are not calling Obama out on his demand for sole authority to increase the debt ceiling to whatever level he wants, whenever he wants.
This is a nonstarter for any deal. Nobody will hand a blank checkbook to a man hell bent on raising more revenue, and who refuses to identify one specific dollar of entitlement cuts....just so that he can turn around and go out on a spending spree. It is irresponsible, sets bad president, and he should be ashamed and vilified for even asking.
This is about more than taxing the rich...wake up!
Rick, I understood your post, I just don't see how giving further breaks is the answer to any problem. Yes it won't be enough revenue if taxes when up to what they are supposed to be but its a start and we have a huge problem with revenue and spending.
Now while you blame your pathetic life on Obama, why don't you go back to school and make something of it. Obama doesn't owe you a perfect life, that is something in America you have always had to do on your own and if you think poverty is a perfect life you are delusional. Stupid fascists who do nothing but lick Koch brothers balls all day.
TO: VTBobb` who wrote:
Republicans turned that plan down.
Well, the trouble with Republican followers is, when they have a bona fide "liar" on their hands (GWB) they refuse to acknowledge it and just pretend they didn't see or hear anything, they don't know anything, and they never heard of any such person.
When Republican followers have a bona fide "honest man" on their hands (President Obama), they see that as a sign of weakness and try scourge him.
Republicans, always backazzwards.
Wouldn't it be More Productive if Our Elected Leaders Started Working Together as AMERICANS for AMERICANS and AMERICA, instead of just bickering, stalling and posturing for the next election as democrats and republicans! The American People have had it with this unproductive BS! The way that both parties having been operating for years just stinks! Neither party has really been looking out for the best interests of the US Citizens who elect them and who they're supposed to represent.
Both parties have sold out the bulk of the American citizens, who they're supposed to represent, by allowing the "out-sourcing" floodgates to open wider and wider without taking any sensible measures to stem the tide.
It shouldn't be all about Democrats or Republicans! It should be about Americans, especially our elected officials, doing the right thing for our country and its citizens. All the single-minded, left versus right, ideological one dimensional bull has got to go!
Both parties need to start working together and actually start doing something to fix the real problems in our country like "out-sourcing", illegal immigration, the out of control costs of health care insurance and our reliance on foreign fuel. If they don't start working together and actually start making progress by the next election, American citizens should run a nation-wide campaign to vote out all incumbents regardless of party to send the message.
And yes - I'm Angry - As are most American Citizens right now!
T-REX,
The Debt Ceiling increase is only needed to pay for what has already been spent.
It's not like they pass a bill to increase the Debt Ceiling before they pass spending bills.
It is a political game to even have a debt ceiling. The House (where spending bills must originate) controls the spending so if they don’t want a higher debt then stop passing appropriation bills that calls for more spending than projected revenues.
They (House Membership) currently pass spending that is greater than our revenues then want to deny an increase to the debt ceiling … what a joke.
T Rex, the fourteenth amendment has never been tested on the debt ceiling but if republicans try to pull what they did last summer and end us up in complete shut down, I won't have a problem with Obama doing what he has to with it. Let the supreme court decide later if he had the right.
You know neither party is forth coming with details, if you want them from Obama, which by the way he had hundreds of pages with his proposal and the republican one was 3 pages...who do you think had details? Like it or not the president holds the cards. No amount of abuse or complaining can stop him from letting all the tax breaks end.
T-Rex
The debt ceiling is NOT a "blank checkbook"... it ONLY allows you to pay for the debt you already committed to.
This is what RESPONSIBLE people do... they pay the debt they owe.
Educate yourself. YOU are the perfect example of why the republican party is viewed as uneducated. You do not even understand what the debt ceiling is.
Yeah they really need to do away with the debt ceiling, its not like we can not pay the bills. It doesn't address new spending at all. Just bills being accrued. Boehner spent 6 months trying to educate the morons in the tea party on capital hill on it only to have them block him at every move. Not because it was the smart or educated thing to do, merely because saying no to everything is easier than having to think about what battles they should be having.
The ONLY REAL FIX is to Raise Revenue, by Bringing Back Jobs to US Citizens who Pay Income Tax.
Massive cutting just puts more people on unemployment, which just depresses the economy even further.
Returning private sector jobs to American Citizens will provide income tax revenue to OUR Government versus our government having to pay unemployment benefits to those who would be jobless instead. We need our elected officials to Start Protecting American Jobs and do whatever it takes to bring back the jobs they let go. We need leaders who will actually stand up for the American people.
The bottom line is that “Our Government” has to protect domestic industry and the jobs that those industries provide. If they do that, the rest will take care of itself.
We may have to pay a bit more for products made here in the USA by US citizens, but at least we'll still have jobs and a future for our children.
VTBobb, The debt ceiling is money we already own, not being spent. The difference is pretty large even for a righty to not see. I pay my debts and the federal government is bound by the constitution to pay theirs. If you got a problem with spending do not look at the president, it is congress that holds the purse strings and there are no bigger spenders then the republicans. The difference as I see it is when democrats spend they pay for it through usually higher taxes, when republicans spend they borrow. Another big difference that even a republican ought to be able to see. It really all boils down to congress, not the president. He can suggest things to spend on but it is congress that passes the actual money portion.
Sarah-3043284
OK Sarah, I’ll play.
So we ARE capable of paying for our social programs, right? You may be, I’m not.
Not when we have massive waste, fraud, abuse and corruption (WFAC) in our government and the Liberal/Progressive solution is to just raise taxes. We shouldn’t demand ANY AMERICAN to pay a penny more in taxes until our government can 1. Pass a budget, and 2. Eliminate 90% of the WFAC.
The federal government made at least $125 billion in improper payments in 2011.
Washington spends $25 billion annually maintaining unused or vacant federal properties.
Government auditors spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them–costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually–fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve.
The Congressional Budget Office published a “Budget Options” series identifying more than $140 billion in potential spending cuts.
Examples from multiple Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports of wasteful duplication include 342 economic development programs; 130 programs serving the disabled; 130 programs serving at-risk youth; 90 early childhood development programs; 75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities; and 72 safe water programs. The CBO estimates these losses at between $100 billion and $200 billion annually!
This year the Institute of Medicine reported that Health care fraud is estimated to cost taxpayers more than $750 billion annually.
These 6 examples, and I can show you 400 more, add up to $1.3 TRILLION of WFAC EVERY YEAR!
This is $4,300 for every man woman and child, and it doesn’t include the amount we owe for our National Debt and Unfunded Liabilities.
Are you capable of paying $4,300 every year from now on? Is the average family of 4 capable of paying $17,000 more every year?
Hell, even if you just get rid of HALF of the WFAC in our government most Americans won’t be capable of paying this off.
Yes, we have the largest economy in the world, but we also have the largest debt in the world.
Our government is unsustainable. It is corrupt and criminal to demand the American people to continue funding our government. Will your bank just keep giving you more money as you continue to waste it over and over. I doubt it.
We don’t have a revenue problem, we have a spending and WFAC problem.
If you’re too indoctrinated into just blindly following the 545 criminals in our government, that’s your problem.
Real Americans aren’t.
Wow, Jan-21270 way to prove you don't have a clue what I posted. Nice of you to show off your ignorance in typical liberal fashion. So sad that you liberals feel insults prove anything other then your inability to communicate on an adult level. What a pathetic little diatribe.
Lets start with CUTTING these morons pay, and lets cut their entitlements like Medical and Pension, you don't pay someone that does not work do you .......
John in Battle Creek, absolutely. Democrats tax and spend, republicans are cut tax and spend. Republicans have bigger deficits, that is the major difference. Before they can start spouting off the amount that Obama is accrued, take into consideration that we had a massive revenue cut when the economy crashed. That combined with tax breaks, he was bound to seem like he is spending more money but he is basically only paid for Bush policies. Policies he should have stopped in my opinion.
Our economic problems didn't happen overnight. It's been happening over the past 15-20 years, but the economy was kept going by middle class Americans tapping into the equity on their homes until they were completely tapped out.
It shouldn't be all about Democrats or Republicans! It should be about doing the right thing for our country and the majority of its citizens. I consider myself an independent voter, but going back to the Reagan days and with the only exception having been Perot, I’ve always voted Republican. But all this single-minded, left versus right, ideological one dimensional bull has got to go! This is the problem with our country. It shouldn't be about Democrats or Republicans! It should be about Americans, especially our elected officials, doing the right thing for our country and its citizens.
Both parties have sold out the bulk of the American citizens, who they're supposed to represent, by allowing the "out-sourcing" floodgates to open wider and wider without taking any sensible measures to stem the tide. (Under Clinton jobs to China, Under Bush I & II influx of illegals or cheap easily abused labor into the US and jobs to Mexico/NAFTA) Our leaders are elected by the Citizens of the United States of America to represent the interests of those citizens and the country itself. They are NOT elected by the Global Market Place or foreign citizens!
We need our elected officals to Start Protecting American Jobs and do whatever it takes to bring back the jobs they let go. We need leaders who will actually stand up for the American people.
We need to bring manufacturing back to the United States of America and both parties are ignoring tariffs as a way to level the playing field, raise money and bring jobs back home. Let's guess why. Oh that's right, tariff is a dirty word. Hum, maybe it’s that our so called leaders (political leaders) are beholden to the same people who are exporting our jobs.
I guess we should keep letting Corp Boards, Wall Street, CEOs and Foreign Lobbyists promote sending US jobs to countries where they work for slave wages, no benefits, no OSHA safety standards or no real environment regulations. How's that been working for us?
The so called “Global Market Place” is not a level playing field. Companies may have made higher profits by "out sourcing", but they've been putting middle class Americans who are a good part of the world’s customer base out of work. I’m not a lefty or member of any union. I run a business that employs over 20 people and produces products that are purchased by customers that do manufacturing and packaging. I’m just an average Joe, but I've been saying this for more than 10 years now. If I can see it, so can our so called leaders (political leaders) who are beholden to the same people who are exporting our jobs.
We need to add tariffs that are proportionate to the inequities in wages and regulations in the country where the goods were produced and or where we’re importing them from. We could then use the money raised by these tariffs to help companies build state of the art manufacturing plants here in the USA, which would create more jobs here at home for US citizens, which would then in turn increase our income tax revenue.
The people with all of the excuses as to why we can’t or aren’t willing to manufacture products here in the US are the same people who have provided us with the thinking that’s gotten us into this mess in the first place.
Over the past 15-20 years, I've seen too many of our customer's close manufacturing plants here in the USA and move those plants to different countries, decimating entire areas here in OUR COUNTRY. And I'm not alone. Returning jobs to American Citizens will provide income tax revenue to OUR Government versus our government having to pay unemployment benefits to those who would be jobless instead.
Bringing manufacturing back to the US not only gives jobs to the US citizens who would be working in those manufacturing facilities, but to the people that would be working in the businesses that would spring up all around them. This should also include the safe harvesting, production and distribution of our own natural energy here in the USA, rather than paying for fuel from countries where they hate us. Let’s keep that money and those jobs here in the US.
These so-called “free trade agreements” have to go. It was obvious when they were passing these agreements as to what was going to happen and sure enough it did. Our leaders had to have known this as well when they were passing these bills. It’s just common sense. We also need to bring customer support services back to the United States of America and staff them with employees who are US Citizens.
The “Global Market Place” is not a level playing field! The whole idea of the tariffs is so we can pay our factory workers a decent wage and not be blown out by these other countries where they don’t play by the same rules.
Wow Rick, typical teatard response. You want to give your money to the Koch brothers, send them a check. But I am not interested in paying for their wars and their greed anymore. If you are too stupid to see that we are being scammed by oil money and evangelicals then so be it. Vote for the GOP.
You Liberals blame congress I think that both party are to blame. Obama is too busy going around different states blaming the republican while the republican are in Washington waiting for Obama to return to Washington. Cut the bull@!$%# and sit down raise tax raise interest rate and cut public assistance to those that are able to work. Don't touch ss,medicare,medicaid,disable person retire individual single mom program and the military. Take away the deduction from contribution on the taxes. I know this person rich that make contribution to his own nonprofit Org and later claim it as a deduction on his taxes. Hey it better than having it in the bank. Just imagine you give 3 hundred thousand to your own nonprofit how much will the government give you back. better than the interest the bank give you.
Wouldn't it be more productive if both parties worked together to draft bills that could be put up for a vote together, rather than each party trying to draft their own bills and just trying to pass them as a Republican bill or Democrat's bill.
Bills drafted and proposed by members of both parties as Americans, rather than as a Democrat's bill or Republican's bill, would be much more likely to pass. Or does that make too much sense?
One of these days I'm going to see this Libtard site bash a Democrat.
Wait, no I'm not.
All the RWNJ's are bitching about entitlements - especially SS going broke. If Bugsy Reagan had not started the habit of stealing from the "TRUST" we would have plenty of money to pay claimants.
Let's place the blame where it is the most truthful.
Just one minor comment.The Rep/T.P. wish to cut and means test my social security and Medicare benefits that I payed into. They have voted themselves a much better pair of benefits than mine which they are not considering for cuts. I feel that our employees should only have the same benefits and social entitlements that we, their employers have and their wages and social benefits should be set as the same percentages as ours. I lie I have another comment.These persons who feel that the Super Rich should continue with their free ride. Give it a rest.No-one,including yourselves really believe the nonsense that you claim is sense
@jan-21270...All I have to say on your TEXAS spew is come get 'em! I SOOOOO want TEXAS to secede its unreal! WE dont need the U.S. The U.S. NEEDS us. We have everything we need right here. I dont mind watching you liberal dumba$$e$ starve for awhile before we make you pay dearly for what we hand you. Thats right "hand" you. Thats what you libtards want, everything handed to you. BUT as far as the weapons are concerned...come get 'em! I read the garbage you post and you have no clue about the real world. Are you sure your old enough to work? Just a foul mouthed libtard is what I see.
Here is YOUR bozo!
Enough is enough. Remember the Taliban? The group responsible for the deaths of 3000 Americans that still thrives in Afghanistan? The group we’re still fighting?
In the Obama Administration’s pandering to Islamists everywhere, they have ordered changes in a new military handbook that forbid U.S soldiers from criticizing the Taliban. And if that’s not enough, our men in uniform are forbidden to disparage pedophilia. Oh, one more thing: our soldiers are instructed not to speak of women’s rights. Or homosexuality. Or criticism of Afghans at all.
To complete this supine attitude of the Obama Administration toward those Muslims who want to kill us, the manual, which runs 75 pages, insinuates that the reason for the insider attacks among our troops by Muslims is that we are ignorant of Afghani culture. The handbook intones: “Better situational awareness/understanding of Afghan culture will help better prepare [troops] to more effectively partner and to avoid cultural conflict that can lead toward green-on-blue violence.”
It’s our insensitivity that fosters the sneak attacks inside our armed services.
63 of our soldiers have been murdered in almost 40 insider attacks just this year.
U.S. Marine General John Allen, the top commander in Afghanistan, “does not approve of its contents,” according to a military spokesman.
This follows in the wake of an Obama Administration decision in 2012 that removed any materials that portrayed Muslims negatively. The FBI was ordered by Obama to eviscerate instructional material that shows Muslims as violent or open to becoming terrorists. And it’s not just the FBI; almost all federal agencies are now enjoined to do Muslim outreach. The Justice Department has an Islamic civil rights program, Homeland Security has coffee with Muslim organizations that are radical, and even NASA was pushed on Muslim diplomacy.
In the real world, where Muslim terrorists want to kill our soldiers from the inside, they must be chortling over the open support they now receive from Obama. Meanwhile, our soldiers, who put their lives on the line every day, are supposed to simply bare their chests and duct-tape their mouths so the terrorists can have ready, silent victims to pounce upon.
Obama’s quisling attitude toward fanatical Muslims is enough to turn any real American’s stomach.
Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves. That is what the Democrats are playing at with the GOP, but the noose swings both ways. The GOP should give the president what he wants at this point. Let him raise taxes, without the spending cuts he promised and when it all spirals further down beat them senseless with their own stick.
Where will the money for unsustainable programs come from when there is no money left? The military has already been cutting spending since the troops left Iraq. Procurement dollars are as low as they've ever been for new contracts and as old ones are completed, few new ones are being added. The size and force structure of our military is being reduced and changed with more cuts on the near horizon yet liberals are still screaming to cut defense. Defense is one of the few mandated duties of the federal government and one of the few truly justifiable expenditures we have. Costs for social security, medicare, and government retirement benefits are constantly rising. So much so that those programs account for a larger piece of the federal budget now than defense spending. All of these latter programs are not constitutional mandates for the federal government. This is the Carter and Clinton years all over again and the end result will be just as disastrous to the nation's defenses. Many complain about the no bid contracts and civilian sub-contractors used by the DOD. They think it was capital cronyism that got them where they are in our defense structure, but they are wrong. There was and still is a large need for many of these contractors as the manpower which once undertook these tasks has been eliminated from the military by defense spending cuts. They fail to realize that procurement of new weapons systems and materials serves two purposes, first it gives our military members the required edge they need to fight, often superior forces based on numbers, and second it creates jobs of all varieties, from tech to manufacturing here in the US. When the US attacked Iraq to remove Saddam, roughly one half million American and coalition troops faced an Iraqi army that was in excess of one million members. Only about 30% of both forces were actual combat operations troops, the rest were support troops from doctors to truck drivers, logistics personnel to cooks. Without the training and advanced equipment, our troops could have been mauled badly. Take away our ability to project force throughout the world, take away our ever diminishing technical advantages because of our research and innovation and soon the US military is like any other piss pot dictators military in the world and they won't be able to take on two to one odds or better anymore.
Is it so wrong to expect people to work and provide for themselves? Is it so evil to ask family members to look out for each other? Is it irresponsible to ask a person to look out for their own health? Are any of these statements unreasonable or things that each and every American does not face every day? Are we wrong to encourage our businesses to remain competitive and stay based in our nation when other nations are going even further to do the same? Is it right to ask a small group of individuals to support, long term or indefinitely, a larger block who won't support themselves? Can we continue to absorb the poor or otherwise unwanted masses from poor countries without harming our own poor and destitute? Can we remain competitive without an influx of new ideas and attitudes brought in by prosperous and hard working individuals willing to immigrate here legally? I don't think that there is one question I just asked that can be answered no to. I am a moderate conservative an that is what I believe.
The Conservatives and the Liberals seem to disagree on practically every issue.
If both sides were to take the time to listen to each other, they would learn a lot from each other. They would realize that they are not really enemies and that they actually complement each other. And they would notice a few things, including the following:
1) There are 2 sides to each story. For any given subject, you will get a better understanding of the problem if you take the time to hear the issues raised by the other side.
2) You do not always have the best answer for every problem. However, you will not know this unless you take the time to learn about the solution proposed by the other side, and their reasons for proposing it.
3) The country needs 2 parties. If there is only one party, then the country will be taken%
3score&4
ROTFLMAO!!!!
I hope you're not serious.
It was your boy-toy LBJ who changed the accounting methods to allow S.S. surplus to be used as part of the General Fund. He used it to pay for Vietnam and his "Great Society" scam so you wouldn't realize how much money it was really costing the American people.
By the way, it was the same scheme that Billy "Blue Dress" Clinton used to mke you believe there was some mythical "surplus" during his presidency.
I'm sure you believe that too, right?
Try to keep up Spanky.
Hey nurse Ratchet, whoops I mean Jan-21270 riddle me this, when was the last time a Democrat controlled congress put forth a balanced federal budget? Hint, it has been over 40 years. There is no more fiscal responsibility on the Democratic side of isle then Republican. Nothing short of a balanced budget amendment has any hope of ever bringing this nation back to fiscal responsibility. It is idiots like you that cannot see that united we stand, and divided we fall. As if there isn't logic behind the division Washington espouses. But you keep spewing your nonsense, the Democratic Party has no more interest in solving anything then Republicans do, and least of all Obama.
So it's now official? The GOP has been reduced to it's lowest common denominator, rural and southern voters? The GOP is now the party of rednecks it appears, who are still pineing for George Wallace circa 1972. Even more sad, the GOP hasn't got anybody with even Wallace's stature.
I would also like to take this opportunity to extend the olive branch to those wavering non-racist and social-issue Republicans who have been sticking with their party in the forlorn hope that sanity would return to it; the Democratic party really is the 'center' party and will welcome you. The lackeys to the rich need not apply.
The other item of note is the RWNJs are having a feeding frenzy over the 'illegal alien sex offender' aide found in the house. While there are a few things about this that smell bad (the after-election notice mostly), I would like to point out to the right that there are two major differences between this sex scandal and the similar ones they had: The Dems didn't elect him to office, and we can deport him. Your guys are collecting their congressional pensions...
The Conservatives and the Liberals seem to disagree on practically every issue.
If both sides were to take the time to listen to each other, they would learn a lot from each other. They would realize that they are not really enemies and that they actually complement each other. And they would notice a few things, including the following:
1) There are 2 sides to each story. For any given subject, you will get a better understanding of the problem if you take the time to hear the issues raised by the other side.
2) You do not always have the best answer for every problem. However, you will not know this unless you take the time to learn about the solution proposed by the other side, and their reasons for proposing it.
3) The country needs 2 parties. If there is only one party, then the country will be taken to one extreme on every issue. And the country would then definitely fall off a cliff.
I personally agree with the Conservatives on some issues, and with the Liberals on others. From my perch, therefore, I can see that it is possible to find a compromise.
Who Are Rednecks?
Rednecks are progeny of the mighty Scots-Irish Presbyterians who pioneered the southern Appalachians and the American West. Few of today's Rednecks understand the true meaning and heritage of the word. This term originated with Lowland Scottish Presbyterians who would wear red scarves or stiff red collars around their necks, demonstrating that they were Covenanters, members of the National Covenant, which was the Scottish Presbyterian Church. They had literally signed their oaths with their own blood at Greyfriar's Kirkyard in 1638. For the wearing of their distinctive insignia, they received the pejorative appellation, Rednecks. For their refusal to accept the Church of England, which they described as "Popery without the Pope", these Scots were persecuted by the British. They fled first to Ulster, Ireland, then to America, where they became the Scots-Irish ethnic group. The word Redneck in early America referred to a descendant of those Scottish Protestants or, more generally, a southern Scots-Irish American. At the time of the American Civil War, the Yankees began referring to all white Southerners as Rednecks. Ironically, the word Yankee comes from the Dutch and is based on a word implying greed.
Many Americans try to slander not only this ethnic group, but the entire white South by using the appellation "Redneck". They are more to be pitied than confronted, and besides the term "Redneck" should be a badge of honor amongst true "Rednecks". It is a benediction from Heaven to be descended from people who were brave rebels and fighters against injustice; who were fearless in settling where others dared not - the Southern Highlands. They were staunch, freedom loving Presbyterians, who were opposed to slavery. Their ties of kinship were as tight as the clans of Scotland. They were extremely independent, industrious and at times, a bit boisterous. It is true they were known to be boastful and seemed to feel that naught but the trees were higher than themselves. They could certainly provoke disorder and loud talk when they disagreed with a thing, part of the reason they had been called "Crackers" in Ireland. They were "Rednecks", and we are too. And, by the way, y'all, we can take it!
!!!!!THANK YOU!!!!!
Crazy steve...Me thinkest you be the racist along with the other libs here. The KKK was created by the democRAT party. Just so you know.
@DingleB#1.165: Respectfully, let me try this again. Our greatest threat is not the debt, nor deficits. Our greatest security threat is a lack of "Full Employment" at wages, or wealth distribution equality, adequate to costs of living in this Country. Think about a transactional process line with frequent buy and sell intervals. From beginning to end, our basket of goods and services are all crammed with wages, profits, and taxes. This is true of all ancillary business and transactional lines relative to the prime line as well. The Fed and Treasury then infuse targeted rate of inflation into currency, via interest rates, which in turn relieve debt size, and afford real spending, absent, or within manageable deficit. Our economic problems are mostly "lack of full employment" and very weak wages over an extended period. Progresssive taxes are vital to proper and effective wealth distribution, which keeps our economic engine running smoothly, and yields a balanced currency.
Now, regarding whom we actually owe. Our debt to other countries is miniscule at worst. Actually, it is non existent. Even China owes us more in Credits than we owe them proportionately. The bulk of our debt is, in fact, owed to ourselves. Most do not really understand our economic system, and appropriately so. Economics, especially an economic system as large as the US system is a thing of many variables. Large variables can, and are, mostly measured, calculated, and relatively equated, however, often, small variables are not, which sometimes are immaterial to an overall equation, yet, many small variables combined will contaminate the equation. Those who profess economic principals dripping with politics actually mess up the former and dirty up the latter, and that ain't easy relative to the latter. Hope I have helped. If not, you now have more to give me hell about. Regards
It seem that Little miss American has fail to understand that we are in this together and need to resolve the issue soon. Taxes has to go up but wait it's not only on the rich but everyone that pay working tax. Who fault is it? everyone as a whole. But that not all if you don't have a house or condo or coop i suggest you go ahead and get one. Interest rate will go up and it will be more difficult to buy a your dream home. For the Liberal the way they express them-self here they are doing pretty good maybe because government are giving them the extra push. But middle class will feel the hardship of this cliff.
GOP Debt Limit Threat Risks More Than a Downgrade
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2012/12/13/GOP-Debt-Limit-Threat-Risks-More-Than-a-Downgrade.aspx#page1
How does President Obama's dictate that Republicans must accept increasing the tax rate on individuals and small business owners (who file their business taxes with their personal taxes) who earn more than $250,000 BEFORE even discussing reduction in federal spending come close to what 65% of Americans say must be done to reduce the deficit? How does President Obama's failure to bring forward even one concrete proposal for federal spending reductions meet what the public is asking for? Here is a good start, begin implementing the recommendations from President Obama's bipartisian debt reduction committee. You remember the recommendations that he has totally ignored!
@crazysteve...
The other item of note is the RWNJs are having a feeding frenzy over the 'illegal alien sex offender' aide found in the house. While there are a few things about this that smell bad (the after-election notice mostly), I would like to point out to the right that there are two major differences between this sex scandal and the similar ones they had: The Dems didn't elect him to office, and we can deport him. Your guys are collecting their congressional pensions...
Do you mean like Anthony Weiner or Billy boy Clinton?
BTW, on your side of the room, remember se. byrd from W. Virginia? He was a recruiter in the KKK and YOUR side supported him till his dieing day. How funny is that one?
Simple math.....we spend 41% too much yearly, cut all programs and or tax to 41% additional, and the Democrats will now truly see the reality of the spend, spend, spend metality, Bush equally guilty also. The rich do not have enough money to cover all this or anywahere near it...btw, they are achievers, just like we all try to be. Then, on top of that is the National Debt, $142,000 per taxpayer!!!!!!! How are you/we going to pay that off? The sad realkity is that there will be no choice but to tax all to a high degree, and the longer we wait, the harder it will be.
As a former republican I can assure you that today's republican party of No is a pile of crap compared to the party I belonged to that negotiated and compromised. Foreign words to today's right wing nuts seeming to run the party into the ground for the greedy rich, corporations and business world with no idea about what middle America is like today!
Sarah
You just lied again! The debt ceiling does NOT address the amount we spend, it addresses the amount we PAY BACK of the amount we already BORROWED and SPENT.
I think you better get Dave Ramsey's book. To understand the difference of meaning of people who are locked into debt verses people who are debt free.
People who are debt free or desire to be debt free see the credit line as money that must be paid back and paying it back will mean whatever you purchased is going to cost a minimum of 2X and probably 3X or 4X the value of when you actually purchased. That understanding makes them do whatever is necessary to pay the debt off before it costs that much.
Those who accumulate large debt lose the vision that the money must be paid back. Once they reach a certain amount of debt, the focus becomes simply making whatever the minimum payment is, and not paying off the debt.
The Federal government has create large spending programs that have consistently surpassed what tax revenues the economy can support. The spending problem has never been address in over 40 years.
I think the question is could you live comfortably on a 7.5% annual raise? People today get a 0% - 3% annual raise. Yet, 7.5% is what the federal revenues increase on average over the last 40 - 60 years. The Baseline budgeting spending is structured for an annual increase of 8+% per year and typically overruns to 8.5 - 9% on average. The politicians see the credit limit as how much they spend and give lip service to paying the money back.
I recommend watching "confessions of shopaholic". It is exactly what the politicians are acting like.
Bill
Because the President, just like the rest of us, know that whatever cuts he proposes will be opposed by the GOP. It doesn't matter what he offers, you and the rest of the republicans will be against it... all of it. You and the GOP have made it perfectly clear that you will oppose anything and everything the President does.
Hell, your party filibustered their own GOD DAMN BILL. That's right, your guy stood up, proposed a vote for a bill... then filibustered what he proposed.
THAT is what YOUR PARTY has been reduced to.
So, instead of running in circles... participating in this stupid republican circle jerk of wasting time... the President is smart enough to simply say: "Fine, you want cuts. Which ones?" That way, the republicans can suggest something they will not oppose.
Of course, knowing republicans, they will just pull a McConnell: Suggest cuts, then oppose and filibuster what they suggest.
Bill,
Answer: He was elected in November as president!
clwyd-2621393...There is NO WAY you were EVER a republican, EVER!! The republican party of today is further left than the democRAT party of the 60s was. So go blow your liberal smoke somewhere else!
67 Bonnieville
No... you don't get to only blame it on one guy. REPUBLICANS are equally guilty. Not just Bush, ALL of you Republicans. For the past 45 years the REPUBLICANS have spent, spent, spent.
The difference between the two parties:
Democrats tax and spend (which is supposed to pay for the spending, but doesn't always work that way)
Republicans cut taxes and spend (which can not pay for the spending in any way, and is completely irresponsible)
Republicans always try to pass off their FAILURES on one guy: Bush. No, you are ALL responsible... every single Republican who ever voted their party line.
Yes, the southern Democrats were originally responsible for the KKK. But those Democrats (AKA Dixiecrats) all switched parties in the late 60s/early 70s when Johnson signed the civil rights act (a Democrat who recognized the mistake that was made, something the current GOP appears to be incapable of doing) and went over to the Republican party, so the GOP owns that legacy now...
So now our leadership is left to wait until the NBC polls come out to figure out what to do? If so most of the posters here missed that 70% of the individuals polled want a compromise of both taxes and reduction. How does that give the Democrats a pat hand? I thought so...my way or the highway again from the Democratic side of the aisle.
Remember the poll said some tax increases with reductions...it will take more reductions than tax increases to bring our budget back to earth.
clwyd
I agree. The Republican party of today is nothing like the responsible, reasonable party of the past that used to compromise.
I also was once part of the GOP, for over 20 years (I still get their mailers). But they have gone so far to the extreme right, and alienated anyone who is not a religious fanatic hell-bent on creating a fascist theocracy. I can't stand what the GOP has turned into.
The main reason I am so upset at the GOP is that they betrayed my and voters like me... people who are socially liberal, fiscally conservative, and understand the importance of the middle class. Now, the GOP are full of religious FREAKS who spend just as much as any democrat, but also work to redistribute all the money to the wealthy, and the detriment of everyone else.
It took MSN and the republican party till December to figure out that "most" Americans are not happy with the republican leadership? Really? I would have thought that the fact that Obama won despite the all the name calling and demonization from the right, would have given them at least a clue. Obama has an approval rating that is 57% and climbing according to some polls. hint hint. Their constant attacks on workers and aide to the foundation families has taken it's toll. Funny how the man they called socialist is sitting on a DOW that keeps going up, the GDP keeps going up and unemployment is going down. Exports are going up also. We stand to become an energy exporter instead of an importer very soon. That darn liberal energy policy. lol even the oil companies are benifiting. lol . Most Americans are just fed up with the Republican party. When will Boehner realize that America , in Nov. said NO to them. geeeezzzzz
oh yeah, did the liberal media tell you that AIG paid back all the money that bailed them out plus interest? that's right, we actually made a small profit by bailing AIG out. and their stock is climbing lol
It's way past time to cut The War Department down to a reasonable size. Too many generals riding around in too many bigass bizjets and in 28-motorcycle convoys. Too many high-tech toys that don't work. Too many weapons that were never and never will be necessary.
Notsosure
Because EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT wants BOTH!!!!
Democrats have been saying that for the last 4 years... BOTH.
But you listen to Fox News, and that piece of s*** network lies to you... so you don't actually hear what the other side says. Turn off Hannity and Rush for 5 god damn minutes and you might learn something.
crazysteve, the KKK has always remained on the left. Again, Sen. Byrd as a modern example. AND again, the repub. party of today is FAR, FAR left of the democRAT party of the 60s. SOOOO tell your B.S. to someone who has no common sense. The thing about libs is they can NOT learn ORRRR refuse to learn. Do some research before putting your version of "facts" out there. You hear talking points and just repeat them. Try thinking and researching for yourself. OH, BTW M.L.K. was a republican. I know that just blew you away so "research".
Neither of those had young boys involved or arrests in airport bathrooms... LOL!
And Byrd recanted, then went on to support civil rights. Unlike Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond (who did finally recant, but waited until he was nearly on his death-bed), and David Duke.
And it's 'dying'....
Well, that's the key. But, who is at fault if they don't? It is the American voter, or at least the ones who voted for the Tea Party crackpots that are willing to drive the nation into another recession and even default if they don't get things exactly their way. "We have met the enemy, and it is us."
Mac Forrester
I appreciate your civility
Perhaps this is splitting hairs over which is the bigger problem, when all the problems are related. Deficit spending contributes to wealth inequality, and as anecdotal evidence I offer myself: none of that $16 trillion went to me :) Seriously though, deficit spending and the associated "printing of money" makes the rich richer, distorts the market, and increases the cost of living for the rest of us.
That is what the Fed does, but it doesn't make it right.
The wealth and income disparity is neither the result of our tax policy, nor will it be solved by tax policy. "Wealth [re]distribution" is a practice which has a history of failure. Wealth inequality is exacerbated by the fiscal and monetary policies you espouse. Wealth inequality will always exist, but it is made worse by deficit spending and QE. Government should only concern itself with wealth inequality to the extent of ensuring that it doesn't become a device of the powerful to maintain the status quo. Sadly, that is what it now is.
Currently, over 30% of our debt is held by foreign investors, including China. But that is only part of the problem. The much bigger part is the interest expense on that debt when interest rates increase.
As complex as it is, you must allow that there is plenty of room for differing schools of thought. Mine more closely resembles the Austrian, yours seems more in line with the Keynesian school. Please do not confuse an alternative point of view as a lack of economic understanding.
After the last several decades, I don't see how anyone can relate the notion of fiscal conservatism to any political party; I certainly don't.
mguy-478...you even sound like a bitter libtard. OH, I forgot...IGNORANT also. Sorry I forgot that one.
What is funny, the programs the Republicans and the ones Romney wanted to cut during his failed attempt at election are the very ones which Romney's father benefited from before he was born and which helped propel him to becoming a millionaire. Mitt Romney was born into wealth, so he never had to struggle to make ends meet. By the time he was born, his family was wealthy and friends of the Marriott family, one of whom Mitt was named after. So he began life wealthy and was born into a position as a Marriott CEO. Had none of those social programs existed, it is very unlikely Mitt Romney would be enjoying the wealth he is now as a once again Marriott CEO. It is very likely he would be a member of the middle class if he was lucky or, if not, living in poverty - but it is unlikely he would be a member of the 1%. All of this going on today with Congress is a part of the Republican theme of take from the poor and give to the rich! Has anything "trickled down" to you recently over the past 30 years of tax breaks for the wealthy? I think I got some TCE trickled into my water supply and that's about it.
I am; the BS part is wrong, but the rest of your statement is correct....
DingleB
It can be considered a result of tax policy, if you include the numerous deductions and loopholes created by the wealthy to benefit themselves.
The fact that Romney pays a lower percentage than I, a middle class worker, is proof of that.
But that is more an issue of lobbyists controlling Washington and tipping the scales in their favor.
I would be in favor of keeping tax rates where they are, if we cap deductions at around $50k, and treat capital gains as income. That would increase the actual taxes on the wealthy to what they should be. I doubt the lobbyists would allow that.
@crazy steve, My bad. Its is dying. I get in a hurry and misspell. (often) and also I do hope it IS dying (KKK) BUT I cant stand the double standard thats out there. I want the TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH (which nobody ever gets) from our leaders and the media! I can decide for myself on issues.
Okay, everyone, here's my proposals, and these, again, are just my ideas for putting the economy somehwat back in order.
1. Keep the tax cuts for all those who make under $250K per year
2. Phase in small tax increases on the people who make less than $250K per year over a 5-year period as the economy strengthens.
3. Raise the age for Medicare from 65 to 67, unless you are disabled or have some other valid reason to apply early.
4. Means test anyone making over $1M or having over $1M in their bank accounts when it comes to applying for both Social Security and Medicare. If you've got that much money available, you really don't need Social Security or Medicare. You can always apply when you run out of your millions.
5. Revamp Welfare; i.e., anyone not working and collecting welfare who gives birth to another child while on welfare doesn't get additional money for that child; anyone collecting welfare must show valid proof that they have been aggressively looking for work; or anyone collecting welfare may be put to work on infrastructure repairs or community service and given minimum wage (or more).
6. Anyone woman/teen on welfare who gets pregnant and isn't married to the father.....have the Welfare Dept. go after the father for child support! It may cost in legal fees, but it'll save taxpayers money in the long run (and it might make some of these men/boys think twice before they get someone pregnant).
7. Cut the military budget by reviewing ALL new equipment with the Joint Chiefs of Staff. If they don't think it's needed; we don't need to build it. We "force" our military to accept equipment that they don't want or need, and it's wasteful and ridiculous. Additionally, we need to review costs, line by line, for this equipment....buying a toilet seat for hundreds of dollars more than you can pay for it at Home Depot is just totally ludicrous!!
7. Cut back on civilian contractors; i.e., Cheney's group who "allegedly" protect our agents in the Middle East. They are grossly overpaid and not actually trained to do the job -- this is why we have an active military that can do the same job for less money and do it better.
8. Put out some "stimulus" money to repair our infrastructure...not only will it put out-of-work individuals BACK to work, but it would increase our safety. It just isn't too brilliant to have bridges, roads, railway crossings, levees, etc. that are unsafe. It ends up costing us more in the long run.
9. Train people to deal with the new technology in manufacturing. Even APPLE is planning on doing this...they are going to hire people in the U.S., train them in the new technology needed to manufacture their products, and bring their jobs back to the U.S. If more corporations did this....our economy would grow significantly.
10. Set term limits for Senators and Congressmen/women. Some of these people have been there for decades and no longer have ANY idea of what's going on outside of their little offices in D.C. We need "new" blood in both houses in order to get anything done that would help the country.
11. Get rid of lobbyists and PAC's.....we don't need these people "buying" our politicians. Who do you think our politicians are beholden to when this happens.....it certainly isn't the taxpayer who actually pays their salaries!! These people don't care about the politician's constituents....they only care about the people they represent!! We need our politicians to go back to the good ol' days when they actually represented US...not a corporation or a particular group.
12. Hire enough people in the IRS to go after tax evaders (including some of our politicians) aggressively. Maybe if we were able to recoup all the monies owed to the United States by these "evaders," we'd have enough to safely pay our debts! Cutting back on staff at the IRS doesn't help...we need to rehire these agents, put them to work hunting out the tax evaders and prosecuting them, and getting the money back that is legitimately owed to this country!
Okay, I'm sure if I sat here long enough, I'd think of a few more, but these are just a few. I personally think some of them are rather good (and doable). Anyone else agree with me?
Feisty - Where's Roy? You presented him with the truth and - woosh - he's gone. He apparently had to go to work again.
truetexan,
I was a of the Young repulbiRans in the '60's for the state of Wisconsin and went to yearly YR Conventions in Green Bay. I was a member of the republican party and campaigned for Goldwater, Nixon and Reagan door to door. Then the party become too conservative so that the men I campaigned for, who were conservative like I, have turned out being liberal by the party of today. It is, and I say it again, a party of the rich corporate and business world and a pile of crap!
mguy,
Ditto!
I'm taking NBC fishing with me - they set the best BAIT.
This headline had me rolling with laughter - I didn't even need to read the article.
If everybody worked like the conservatives think they should - we would strip our land so fast there wouldn't be a natural resource left in 20 years. We are already at the edge of a much bigger cliff - sustainability of humans. I guess some people would rather repeat the Dust Bowl and have everyone working regardless of the disaster it would cause, than think rationally so that they could keep what little they do get to enjoy.
Conservatives still think the entire world can live a Capitalist life style - great; where you going to find 3 more Earths to support such grandeur? Natural resources rule the planet - not politicians and their groupies. Governments have failed many times - it isn't the end of the world - people just start over (only the same kind of idiots still keep running the show). Stay on the destructive capitalist path and you won't get any more do-overs. 1%ers - kiss my ass - and stop baiting the gullible, they don't know better, have an ounce of shame for once.
mguy-478
I'm not saying that our current tax policy isn't beneficial to the wealthy. I'm just saying it isn't the cause of wealth inequality. The primary cause is special interest groups' control over the mechanisms of government. Our government (BOTH PARTIES) has become a tool of the powerful to maintain and enhance power. This is done through regulation which limits competition and distorts the free market, deficit spending, and through the actions of the Federal Reserve.
I believe the tax code needs a serious overhaul too, but tax law alone isn't the reason for, or the solution to our most pressing problems.
clwyd
It's really no use trying to talk to truetexan.
The guy doesn't even know that the Dixiecrats (Democrats) switched parties. He actually thinks that they have been the same party this entire time. But I am willing to bet he can name almost every NASCAR driver and their sponsors... A testament to Texas education. Who needs factual history when you can learn everything from the bible, NASCAR, and the back of a Coors light can. Yeeeeee-Haaaa
truetexan,
The republican party boarder on National Socialism today (Nazi's)
well clwyd, I do have issues with some corporate matters but I never got a job from a poor person and the federal gov. (both sides) has never, I repeat has never been able to run anything successfully. ONLY into the ground! EVERYTHING the gov. (again both sides) touches turns bad. I would have voted for clinton (nearly puked) if I had of been in town at the time and would have kicked myself for 4 years. THEN I started paying attention to what they did and NOT what they said. Now I wouldnt vote a democRAT for dog catcher. The liberal politicians SUCK to high heaven!
BTW, I HATE nascar. I bet you know a little something about it though HUH? I also know a little something about the old dixicrats but you and your libs dont. And "Nazi's...realllly. You are so ignorant its not funny. I feel sorry for stupid people. One thing you CANT change is stupidity. You seem to fit well into that catagory, along with the other libs on here. Keep your heads buried and that way you wont see it coming. You see, anyone who makes fun of the BIBLE HAS to be a libtard. Arent you!
Dingle
Well that's what I was saying... lobbyists, aka: special interest.
Although I don't attribute the inequality to regulations. The regulations did not force executive salaries to increase 4000% over the last 30 years. That was greed, pure and simple.
In the 60's, a CEO made about 7 times what the average worker made. Now, the CEO of Walmart makes more in one hour than the average worker makes in a full year. Regulations did not cause that.
Unfortunately, there is nothing the government or the people can do to change that. So the wealth inequality will continue to grow. Eventually we will get to a point where the wealthy have all the money, and there will not be anyone left to buy the products their businesses make. Then we will be a two-class society, the middle class will not exist, and our society as a whole will crumble. Lucky for us, this is a slow process and probably will not happen in our lifetime. The next generations... well they are f***ed.
Didi-376564
Nice ideas...especially #10!!
Regulations alone didn't cause that, but government policy as a whole is a major contributing factor. You can look to inflation rates since the '70's and compare that to the rate at which wealth has been accumulating among the 1%, and the correlation is obvious. Then the question is, what happened in the '70's? Or more specifically, what happened August 15, 1971? That was the day all restraints on government spending and reckless monetary policies were removed.
You can only hide for so long Roy... lol
Put up or STFU!
Fiesty... You should really only be able to be unemployeed for so long. Take a break and drop off an application.
It's amusing to hear all the people say "I'm so tired of this!" If you were really tired you would become a Libertarian and disavow your affiliation with extreme liberal and conservatism. As long at Democrats and Republicans are our only choice......we're all screwed.
The Dog
Alternative ideologies are becoming more prevalent as the people's calls for reform go ignored. Most people are socially accepting and fiscally responsible, and neither of the two mainstream political parties fit that description. I strongly suggest that people start looking outside the mainstream for solutions.
Another right wing lie. They project the cost of providing social security and medicare at maximum benefits for 20 year olds and up but disregard that in order to receive those benefits these 20 somethings would have to pay in the maximum for at least 35 years. A 20 year old paying in nothing is eligible for nothing. It's like an insurance company claiming a loss because they sold million dollar life insurance policies but never charged a premium. And since when is 800 billion over 10 years piddling?
Many of us seem to know our national economic problems and some appear to have reasonable solutions to those ,but we can not have our employees I.E. Representatives follow those suggestions. We can advocate anything that we wish but as our so called Representatives appear to have a different agenda then I can't see what the answer is to our national problem.We could off course dissolve our Democracy by Civil War ,but the end result would be worse. The only reasonable way to solve our solution ,as I see it, is by being better informed and voting for those who claim to be responsive to the needs of the majority.We would also have to be knowledgeable on whether they were truly responsive and acting on this at all following elections,rather than by being controlled by rhetoric only. Anyone think that that will ever happen?
If Obama is truly willing to negotiate with anyone, he needs to identify the areas that he is willing to negotiate on. Comprise is giving from both sides which is what the Demorats do not want to do because they see themselves as the winners vs giving in to the losers.
Didi, a reasoned posted with concrete, spelled-out proposals; you can't possibly be a Republican (and if you are, I wish there were far more of you...LOL).
I will take issue with a few things though...
3. I don't agree with this, as some retirees will get caught 'between' and be unable to afford the 'gap'. While the ACA was a step in the right direction, meaningful health care reform like single-payer is what is really needed. One thing rarely mentioned when talk of raising the retirement age comes up is that some people retire when they do because they simply can't do their physical jobs anymore. Raising it on white-collar jobs only would make those blue collar jobs that many disdain more attractive.
5 & 6. I'll lump these together as they're interrelated. Restricting payments for additional children only punishes the child (who are innocent in this) and collecting child support from most of these absent fathers will be an exercise in futility. I'm not saying don't go after the fathers, but jailing them simply runs up the costs of the penal system without solving the underlying problem. There's constitutional problems with enforced sterilitly programs (besides smacking of totalitarianism), so probably the best-bang-for-the-buck is easy-access free or low-cost birth control and abortion. This will drive the pro-life people crazy, but discarding these kids will result in packs of feral children in our streets like many third-world countries.
10. Term limits, while seemingly attractive, punish the competent and incompetent alike. A better solution might be to tie congressional pay to their home district/state average wages/benefits, with 'pay steps' for reducing their districts dependence on federal money. Pie-in-the-sky, I know....
11. The only way to 'fix' this is drastic election reform. You can't prevent 'interested parties' (whether it's a paid lobbyist or private citizen) from contacting their congressional members, but you can remove the money from the equation. Fully public-funded elections with money limits based on population, require the broadcast media to offer free equal access to all parties, and an official 'election season' (8 weeks?) in which to campaign. You'll still have abuses, but this will reduce them.
12. Growing the IRS shouldn't be the answer; instead, reform the tax code and void all bank secrecy laws by refusing those banks that won't disclose account information when asked with access to the US. This has the side benefit of denying terrorist oganizations from easily moving money across borders. This was briefly brought up after 911, but quickly squelched by the rich/GOP.
I would be surprised to see more a few of these in my lifetime, but one can wish....
Shadow,
Why should our President go first?
In negations between Labor and Management labor is
expected to present their demands to management.
@DingleB: Refreshing that you do indeed have some understanding of our economic system. In my missive to you above I did not say our tax policy is the cause of income and wealth inequality. It does contribute to that condition though. A proper progressive tax system is vital to the maintenance of income and wealth equality when added to appropriate full employment and appropriate wages. I also take exception to your take on wealth redistribution. I contend, American Capitalism can only survive within the tenets and yields of wealth redistribution, especially to gain us full recovery from severe economic downturns. Course, here we must be careful of what we actually mean by that term. My meaning is, we have to tweak economic gears in such a way as to bring employment, wage, and wealth balance to the whole system. Otherwise, we have a broken system. Respectfully, I would have guessed you were basing your thoughts on "Austrian" discipline. I cannot logically accept any such, that basically pushes for the punishment of people who are caught in an economic downturn such as the one we are now experiencing, brings on more hardship, and hurts more than helps the efforts of correction. Yes, I am a "keynesian". *Your spending is my income. My spending is your income".
*Paul Krugman
American Girl,
Since you are so knowledgable about lying, Obama never presented a plan with $2.5 in cuts for every $1 in new revenue and I challenge you to show me where he has. He actually had agreed to a deal with Boehner for about $1.5 in revenue for every $1 in cuts but reneged, hence the looming Fiscal Cliff (which FYI, was an idea from Obama's people).
As for liars, I bet I could find as many lies for Obama from the last 4-5 years as you could find for Bush in his entire administration (posting bills on line for review before being singed, no lobbyists in his admin, transparency, reaching across the aisle, spontaneous protest in Benghazi, etc...). The fact is, politicians will lie as long as we let them. Unfortunately, it always seems to be one side going after the other. Neither side is especially concerned with the American people, just keeping power.
As for the Debt Ceiling John, you apparently don't know what you are talking about. The debt ceiling is how much we are allowed to borrow, not how much we have already borrowed. It was put in place specifically to control federal spending. And isn't it funny how all of a sudden, it's the Congress that controls spending. If you look at the spending for the last 6 years (including the final 2 under Bush) who was in control of Congress and how much has our debt increased since then?
The GOP teetering on the edge of the Fiscal Cliff: "DAMNED IF THEY DO, DAMNED IF THEY DON'T."
The GOP is DOOMED so long as they stay tangled up in the snare of the TeaBagNutSac's web of despair. The TeaBag Nazi Puppets are the "Ball and Chain" the GOP need to break free of if they want any possibility of winning an Election from here on out. They suck; their policies suck and until they show the American citizens that they have the whole of the United States best interest at heart (rather than sucking off the Plutocrats) they'll just be targets of Late Night Comedy.
Actually, the people thinking that America needs austerity instead of economic stimulus (or both) will be more gullible than our friends across the pond, since they learned the painful economic lesson of austerity the hard way.
Okay, first of all, most of the tax increases simple revert the tax code back to the original Clinton system, you know, the one that got us a SURPLUS??? I actually say let the Bush tax cuts expire right now for EVERYONE, just to get tax rates back to where they were before that idiot Bush cut them so that everybody would get some magic beans. And by the way, there were as many incentives to invest, save, and "create jobs" (you know, because rich people DON'T CREATE JOBS) under the Clinton tax rates as there were under Bush (actually more, since Clinton created FAR more jobs than Bush did). Besides, the capital gains and dividend tax rates are only going back to Clinton rates; you'd be bitching about the Reagan capital gains rates, which were around 28% (or nearly twice the current rate).
The payroll tax and the Obamacare taxes aren't really a big deal; neither of them will have a huge effect (except maybe the payroll tax) on the economy. The AMT; that's another story. THAT will pack a huge punch, although it is about time we fix it permanently.
Actually, assuming that the Bush tax cuts cost around $3.8 trillion over 10 years and our projected deficits are around $7-8 trillion, it will cut just about half of our deficits; after all, if the fiscal cliff will eliminate our medium-term deficit, and the Bush tax cuts are about half of the cliff, you can do the math.
Not really. If you reform the tax code (take out the deductions and breaks, but don't buy into the lower rates=economic growth) and end the Bush tax cuts from there, you'd easily stabilize the debt for the next 15 years or so. In terms of spending cuts, all we really need is roughly $300 billion in cuts to social programs, $700 billion from the military, further reforms to waste and fraud, and entitlement reforms (increase the payroll tax cap, slow down the growth of benefits, replace fee for service with pay for performance, increase the Medicare tax, and grow the share of what recipients pay for benefits) and you solve the long-term fiscal crisis.
Technically, we don't have a real welfare state or a major WFAC problem. Waste isn't that big a problem in most Western countries, not even in the US. Hell, we don't even have a welfare state: a REAL welfare state has universal healthcare, which even with Obamacare we still don't have. Entitlements, maybe, but those can be dealt with. It's not like we have a nuclear bomb with the timer set to 5 seconds...
Well, the reason for that is actually because we DON'T have a real welfare state. Take Medicare for example. The entire system was built on a single-payer health insurance design, one that has proven its worth at keeping costs low for beneficiaries. The problem is, we only did it for the elderly; nobody at the Great Society expected healthcare costs to increase exponentially every year, which they started to in the 1970s and have dramatically increased ever since. That led to Medicare's costs to the government skyrocketing, since the program's effects at reducing healthcare costs weren't extended to the general healthcare industry.
First of all, that is the pessimistic number; a moderate figure would be around $80 trillion. That is a lot, even if that includes the national debt, but it can be reduced, if we reform Medicare and Social Security in a smart method.
Alright, this is just a huge mountain of bull@!$%#. First of all, the government has kept a roughly 22% stake in the economy for the past 50 years; if we reform Medicare and Social Security, at worst it will move up to 24%, which can be covered with another 2-4% more in revenues to GDP. Secondly, the United States is suffering from a regulatory imbalance, where regulations are too harsh in some areas but too SOFT in others, particularly the volatile financial and mortgage industries. Thirdly, the "Lost Decade" that you are referring to (the Bush years) were caused mainly because the current United States economy, the debt-fueled giant that Reagan and his laissez-faire idiots created, was unable to rebound after the dot-com bubble due to a lack of middle class employment/demand. The wealthy earned a helluva lot of money over the past 30 years, while everyone else got pocket change. And finally, government intrusions will actually HELP the economy in America's case. We need to re-emphasize manufacturing, actually making stuff; we need to develop green sources of energy to prevent drowning in New York City or being left at the table when the world's supply of oil eventually runs out; we need to decrease income inequality and actually support unions and equality of opportunity, since we don't have much of either; we need to reform education and reduce poverty levels so we can actually compete in this world and get rid of the stigmatic fact that we are the richest nation in the world with the largest poverty level of any industrialized country; and we need to reform our "criminal" healthcare system, which bankrupts households and treasuries, reduces the quality of healthcare, and leaves us with one of the worst health records in the history of mankind.
Yes, but that is partially because local politicians (from both parties) took advantage of the pension system or accountants miscalculated on future economic growth rates. As for cities, that is mainly because of pensions and the recession's negative impact on spending and revenue.
Here's your pandering:
June 2012 - Yahya al Libi killed (senior al Qaeda leader in Pakistan)
September 2011 – Younis al Mauritani captured (senior al Qaeda leader in Pakistan)
September 2011 – Abu Hafs al-Shahri killed (al Qaeda’s chief of Pakistan operations)
August 2011 – Atiyah Abd al-Rahman killed (Al Qaeda No. 2 in Pakistan)
May 2011 – Osama bin Laden killed (Number 1 Al Qaeda, and worlds most wanted)
June 2011 – Fazul Abdullah Mohammed killed (top al-Qaeda operative in Somalia)
June 2011 – Ilyas Kashmiri killed (top al- Qaeda commander in Pakistan)
June 2010 – Hawza al Jawfi killed along with 6 other terrorist (leader in Pakistan)
May 2010 – Mustafa Ahmed Muhammad Uthman Abu al-Yazid killed [aliases Shaikh Sa’id al-Masri and Mustafa Abu al-Yazid] (al Qaeda’s No. 3)
April 2010 – Abu Ayyub al-Masri and Abu Umar al-Baghdadi (Top two Al Qaeda operatives in Iraq)
March 2010 – Qari Mohammad Zafar killed (terrorist leader in Pakistan)
February 2010 – Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar captured (The Taliban’s top military commander)
February 2010 – Sirajuddin Haqqani killed (militant commander in Pakistan)
January 2010 – Qassem al-Rimi, Ayed al-Shabwani, Ammar al-Waili, Saleh al-Tais, Ibrahim and Mohammed Saleh al-Banna killed (Al-Qaeda military boss and senior Al-Qaeda figures in the Arabian Peninsula)
December 2009 – Saleh Al-Somali killed (senior al Qaeda operative in Pakistan)
September 2009 – Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan killed (ringleader of an al Qaeda cell in Kenya)
Address to the Nation on Christmas and the Situation in Poland (December 23, 1981)
Ronald Wilson Reagan
As I speak to you tonight, the fate of a proud and ancient nation hangs in the balance. For a thousand years, Christmas has been celebrated in Poland, a land of deep religious faith, but this Christmas brings little joy to the courageous Polish people. They have been betrayed by their own government.
The men who rule them and their totalitarian allies fear the very freedom that the Polish people cherish. They have answered the stirrings of liberty with brute force, killings, mass arrests, and the setting up of concentration camps. Lech Walesa and other Solidarity leaders are imprisoned, their fate unknown. Factories, mines, universities, and homes have been assaulted.
The Polish government has trampled underfoot solemn commitments to the UN Charter and the Helsinki accords. It has even broken the Gdansk agreement of August 1980, by which the Polish government recognized the basic right of its people to form free trade unions and to strike.
The target of this depression [repression] is the Solidarity Movement, but in attacking Solidarity its enemies attack an entire people. Ten million of Poland's 36 million citizens are members of Solidarity. Taken together with their families, they account for the overwhelming majority of the Polish nation. By persecuting Solidarity, the Polish government wages war against its own people.
Martin Luther King on “right to work”
“In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, such as ‘right to work.’ It is a law to rob us of our civil rights and job rights.
Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining by which unions have improved wages and working conditions of everyone…Wherever these laws have been passed, wages are lower, job opportunities are fewer and there are no civil rights. We do not intend to let them do this to us. We demand this fraud be stopped. Our weapon is our vote.” —Martin Luther King, speaking about right-to-work laws in 1961
_________________________________________________________
Love ‘em or hate ‘em Ronald Reagan and Dr. Martin Luther King had one thing in common.
Principal.
Much has been written in the last couple of weeks about the demise of Conservatism. It’s a simple thing really. Conservatism is dying due to the fact that many of the so-called proponents of it have turned it into a Racket. They don’t have any principals and the ones that they may of once had are for sale to the highest bidder.
The Proponents, Pundits and Panderers have come to use their Positions not to uphold Principal but to uphold their own profit. Backed by the most awesome Propaganda Machine in the history of the world they have built an Empire based on bilking their followers, selling books, their twisted message and squeezing every last dollar from what they call Conservatism until it has come to be a hollowed out shell of what it once was.
Profit at all costs even over Humanity.
Profit at all cost even if you have to set one American against Another to
Provide it.
What’s happening in Michigan is just one more symptom of those that would Divide us rather than Uplift us to make a Profit.
I think the problem, IR, is that the so-called conservatives only give lip-service to the principles they pretend to espouse. It is really a cover for their own ambitions and for the will of the corporate masters they serve.
Wish I could vote twice for you thoughts above, Floyd!
There is warm cinnamon strudel in the break room to accompany your hot cup of joe!
Enjoy everyone! ☺
Great point.
I proudly voted for Reagan and supported the Republican party back then.
I truly can't stand the Republican party today. The party has left millions of us because they no longer care about America's future. The Republican party today has a motto of I got mine, now I need to step on you to get more.
I take great joy in the fact every year I convert more Republicans to the Democratic party by talking about Reagan. It's so easy to point out facts.
In 1986, Reagan raised Romney's tax rate from 15% to 28%.
vs.
Today's Republican Congress all supported Ryan's plan to eliminate the taxes of Romney, Koch brothers, Buffett, Gates, etc.
Reagan "common sense"
Today's Republicans "give every cent to the wealthy".
Negotiation 101, say what you want.
Today's Republican 101, never say what you want, just cry to the Conservative media.
Great point.
I proudly voted for Reagan and supported the Republican party back then.
I truly can't stand the Republican party today. The party has left millions of us because they no longer care about America's future. The Republican party today has a motto of I got mine, now I need to step on you to get more.
I take great joy in the fact every year I convert more Republicans to the Democratic party by talking about Reagan. It's so easy to point out facts.
In 1986, Reagan raised Romney's tax rate from 15% to 28%.
vs.
Today's Republican Congress all supported Ryan's plan to eliminate the taxes of Romney, Koch brothers, Buffett, Gates, etc.
Reagan "common sense"
Today's Republicans "give every cent to the wealthy".
Another great man once said this about his political party -
It's hard to believe how far the Republican Party has strayed from this philosophy. The current batch of Republicans seem to put the dollar before everything, including their country.
If Republicans want to go over the cliff that's fine with me. If after that they want to block all Obama legislation that is also fine with me.
Because, they will lose in 2014 and 2016.
Did everyone see that Governor Krispy Kreme wants to become President Krispy Kreme? LOL !!!
IR, My Redneck Friend, we all know Ronnie RaYGun was a WUSS, whose Only Accomplishment to this Day, are these words"Mr. Gorbachev Tear down this Wall"!
As President, he tucked Americas Tail & ran after the Marine Barracks Bombing in Lebanon, He sat Idly by as Syrias Assad Murdered 30,000 of his Own citizens, He is Responsible for Bin Laden by funding his ambition to Beat the Russians,He backchanneled $$$ to the Ayatollah in Iran!
But he did save some College students in Granada from the Russians !
To Me, President Ronnie RayGuns greatness is a MYTH !
You Betcha!
Occupy SoggyBottom!
It's a two way street. What cuts are you willing to make? Obama won't commit to any. How is that compromising and work toward a solution? The new entitlement generation is sickening. Is it the GOP's fault that Obama acts like a 20 year old stripper living with her sugar daddy and his no limit credit card? You have got to cut spending, as the additional revenue raised by taxing a certain segment won't amount to anything.
Google: Laffer curve. Do a little research. Even Obama's past economic adviser agrees that this curve is absolutely accurate. At some point, when raising the tax rate you hit a peak then the higher the rate goes the tax revenue actually starts decreasing. People become less incentivized to make more, thus they pay less.
Every day i help to convert democrats to the GOP party. Those that wash daily, have a job, want a brighter future for their children generally will over time leave the Democratic Party and join the Party of Lincoln- the GOP. We will never cave to the socialist demands and we will put the House in order one way or another. Biparartisan does not mean one side caves.
@jack-1792739 #2.8: Bullsh^t!
Sooner or later the young will have to grow up and actually fend for themselvves without their mommy and daddy holding their hands. They are part of the Peter Pan generation. But dont worry we will be better off by returning one and all back to the Clinton Era including funding levels for social programs, and then going after GE and Buffet for tax evasion.
The American people "SPOKE" and the GOP is having a "STROKE", MAJORITY RULES !!!!!!!!
The Voice of the American people is President OBAMA, that's why we voted him back in, the dirtbags lost so stop crying and lets get America up and running !!!!!!!!!!!!
Conservatives today are such hypocrites. First, they go after anyone who is not earning their 6-figure salaries. Then, they bitch they can't live on $250,000 a year. Yes. They can and dollar to a donut, they will. OH gee...remember their favorite slingo line of BS about how we the Middle Class all made "bad" decisions? Well if you can't live on $250K a year, maybe you made "bad" decisions...live choosing to live high on the hog when the hog was about to be put on a strict diet?
Suffer the ahole whiners of conservatism whose blockheaded Corporate Socialism is about to end.
The usual suspects, Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Brooke Brower, the mouth pieces for the looney, left refuse to acknowledge that it was not taxing the people that led to this problem but the spending by the mostly democratic left that led to this massive imbalance.
No household or business could have gotten into this mess and be allowed to continue massive overspending. The banks or the creditors would have taken them down decades ago.
It was the overwhelming desire of mostly democratic politicians to buy the votes of the unintelligent, uneducated and very gullible public to keep them in office and make them millionaires. On average, today, each senator has a net worth of over $10,000,000 and each member of the house of representatives is worth $5,000,000.
If you remember this last presidential election, the amount spent on getting someone elected topped 1 billion dollars.
So yes, first reduce spending. Why should someone who worked for almost 50 years, accumulated a large estate, paid federal income taxes, state income taxes, sales taxes, real estates, gasoline taxes and a large number of hidden taxes also as proposed pay 55% estate taxes?
The president and congress have gone mad!!!
So mac that is a lot of info you posted, do NOT know if I will be able to get through it all with all those facts on why you feel jacks post is BS. I would have to say your post more BS, wait I am sorr its only BS. so when you have something of subtance to post then maybe you will be taken seriously.
Eric, You are so revealing ... "If they want to block ALL OBAMA LEGISLATION that is also fine with me" LOL !!
You do realize libbie, that what you just stated is the crux of the problem .... Obama wants to MANDATE tax legislation and those powers belong to Congress ! Tax bills were designated to originate in the House !!
Thank you for pointing out the true nature of the problem .... aggressive power grab By Obama to subvert defined Constitutional authority. Of course, Obama also wants dictatorial power over the DEBT CEILING !!!
9 million less people voted for Obama. My Reagan, your Raygun, worked with both sides. Our Obama plays the blame game like a teenager would. Be a leader for a change.
He is a Leader, one of the best !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hillary / 2016 ******************************************* " 8 Years" !!!!!!
steve-1962: BS!
Obama needs to come up with some entitlement cuts from social programs other than social security, veterans or turn the social programs over entirely to the states to run. The federal run entitlement programs are sucking the life out of the country. Food stamps, unemployment compensation, disability compensation and welfare would be great palces to start. Is it any wonder the peter Pan generation has no clue, becuase they have been sheltered, coddled and spoiled by their over indulgent parents.
Mac: Instead of just throwing out a juvenile bull$hit; look at the Laffer curve for yourself. Just type it in Google, as there are many perspectives on this.
Hitler was a pawn of Siemans,Krups, VW etc. They benefitted the most by his reintrodution of slave labor, elimination of trade unions, media control, and lack of representation. Is this the path you want to travel? Who does the NRA side with? You, the poor man, think again.
What do you do when they come for you?
Hey John, Stop with all the Billions in Foreign aid !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's both sides screwing with America - equally
Neither is serious - just talk, smoke and mirrors
patriotic
not sure about a leader but one heii of a salesman for the socialist/communist parties
GOP is on its mission toward self-destruction.
@Rick,ky
Complete bullsh##t
GOP has a Bug up their butt because they lost looking like fools !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@jack-no's #2.22:Now you're changing from your "absolutist" original post on the "laffer curve". It's a clinical economic theory created in a controlled economic environment that does, as you now say, bring forth many contrary perceptions. In some instances It's relatively accurate. In others It's not. In your post I first referenced, you spoke of it as an "absolute", which It ain't. Additionally, "Christina Romer", the Presidents former "economic advisor" certainly doesn't go with your perception as you stated It.
Jack..... Laffer Curves..... Seriously....... I'm so tired and wore out out from 30 years of you'll Yahoo's Laffer Curves and Trickle Down Bushra that I just don't have the time or the inclination to do any thing with you. Suffic it to say that most of this is just pie in the sky Bushra that just don't work no matter how long you wait on it. How do I know that you say? Well I think 30 years is long enough. But I tell you what. I'm going to make a recommendation for you. Back before the election we had a poster here named Bill In Fairfax. He spent about 4 years trying to convince all of us that the Laffer Curve was real and functional. And trust me he was a whole lot better at it than you. Why don't you look him up in his remote location and you and he can raise a Glass and pat each other on the back and reinforce each others fantasies while you shed a tear for something that never was and never will be.
When is that Trickle down going to start working, Reagan said it was on his dime-still holding my breath !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rt wingers whine....that the people the rich put on food stamps...suck the life out of the country....then the repubs block votes that remove tax breaks for companies that take American jobs overseas...and block the bill that would give tax breaks to companies that would bring American jobs back....repubs vote against vets job bill while vets who gave body parts and risked their lives have to go on food stamps......
Who sucks the life out of America? Who wants all their money in offshore accounts so they don't have to pay taxes?.........Take, take, take...more coporate tax free welfare for the rich...who use all of American infrastructure to fill up their offshore accounts....then they blame the people they put on food stamps and welfare for the nations problems.......DOH!!!!!!
So which did President R.Reagan believe Unions and advancement of us or Trickle down economics?
That is ridiculous--
This article is totally slanted with Propaganda to get the GOP Congress on board, of which "O"'s plan for more Taxes will never work. More spending. Printing out more money in years to come to pay the debt.
"You want more Sheeple"--A quick fix will wind up as long run disaster.
Everyone will be over taxed---less jobs, more businesses going under. High Inflation, as definite recession or huge Depression in Economics. The Business People/most Americans who hire understand what going over the Fiscal Cliff means. The handout recipients do not understand Finance, and how it will domino into their lives as well. Poorer than poor.
America, the next Greece, Italy, Spain, France, Norway, and other European Countries who are rioting in the streets over their loss of jobs, and prices so high, no one can afford to live a reasonable life. They are becoming slaves to their Government.
Independent: Sorry, I forgot you liberals don't like facts, math, or anything else proved that you just don't want to believe. In your case; it's not what you don't know that makes you sound foolish, it's what you know that just ain't so.
how come the 1-2% evil rich are only repubs??
Obama can't mandate "legislation". Any one who has taken basic civics knows that ... but he can certainly press Congress to pass the legislation that he wants, as any president would. So, I don't know what you're complaining about.
Riots in Norway over economics? Who knew. I believe that their last riot was over Justin Bieber.
Comparing us to the Euro zone countries makes no sense because the basic underlying problems are different.
Jim, Jim, Jim: You post repeatedly the failure Obama is for not being able to get tax legislation passed and in the next breath blame him for stepping on republican toes who are the majority in the house. Typical.
Unions who argued over voter right now argue that people should not have the right to choose!
Children born to illegal immigrants now old enough to vote! Days after Obamination is reelected the illegal’s demonstrate in front of the White House demanding the right of the rest of their families to come to America and enjoy the Welfare life! We put you there and you owe us!
Anger over Mitt's comment on 47 percent being dependant on Government! Anger at 47 percent who voted for Mitt for not giving Obamination everything he wants!
Spending out of control and now anger at the Republicans for not giving him what he wants!
Everyone calling for higher taxes, just not on them!
Obamination desperate to continue Bush's taxes on people making less then 250 thousand because he know when the extra taxes involved with Obamacare hit them most will buckle under the added strain!
Leftist, liberal, Communist takers rejoicing at the destruction of a once Great Nation!
@Barry NJ #2.38 Are you telling us that the post of Eric #2.6 is a LIE ??? He clearly refers to all "Obama legislation". Can you two huddle up and get your stories together ?
Reagan went to the American people with his fireside chats to gain support from democrats to support his agenda to reform the tax code and implement a massive defense buildup opposed by many democrats due to what it would do to our debt. Democrats listened to their constituents to give Reagan the chance to try what he was elected on. You merely prove that democrats listen to their constituents while republicans don't. As the poll mentioned in this article points out even republicans believe the rates should go up on those at the top by a 2 to 1 margin. The separation of powers give republicans the ability to block the president. Their pledge to their money men doesn't allow them to compromise.
Just another example of republicans twisting facts. They blame democrats for the increased debt under Reagan for supporting his agenda despite the fact he had to twist their arms to get it.
Jim ... I don't understand your point. Eric referred to legislation. You're the one talking about how Obama can somehow MANDATE tax law.
It begs the question...is it that our leaders in Washington cannot govern or is it that we, as a nation, have become ungovernable because of our ideological divide?
Discuss...
There is no ideological divide, DaNoid. 60% of Republican voters want to raise taxes on the wealthiest.
House Republicans (and Republican governors) are carrying out the wishes of a small group of uber wealthy billionaires who want to protect their tax cuts. Republican officials are being PAID for their services. Clearly, they do not care if they ever win or lose another election - after Republicans leave office they go into highly paid think tank positions, like (former) Senator DeMint did. Leaving the Senate to work for a conservative think tank is now considered a promotion.
Very good point. If it's a representative government. Then it's only us that it's representing. Still, I think you can agree that fixing the mindset of the nation is more difficult than fixing the composition of it's representatives.
While change of the self is always a great place to start when the thing your trying to fix is the governance of a nation just looking at the man in the mirror isn't going to cut the mustard.
I'll also point out that for all the grumbling we still don't have a very politicly active populous. So if the masses are not truly revolting, (a la Tarir Square) then the government must not be all that bad.
Let's change things up and hold elections every 6 months. If you don't like someone then vote them out and try someone out. We'll keep this up till both sides are compromising nicely.
Jack..that was a nice slicky try at "incentivizing" ...so...it's a two way street? You bet it is...only your neoconartists of the GOP refuse to put up any street signs ...and the Democrats know what the GOP is offering needs a "Danger" sign on that two way street.
Pay your GD fair share and stop whining. It isn't the job of the Middle Class to "incentivize" the rich...and if that was the case where the hell was their incentive for 8 Bush years? The only incentive the rich and Corporate Socialists have is to hoard money in tax free offshore havens....time for them to pay up or shut up.
It isn't the job of Middle Class Americans to hand Big Oil $12 billion in a single year to create more billonaires. Sorry...but that ship sailed in 2008 when your hero ignored that Financial Meltdown..or was that the crowning glory of "incentivizing?"
So Eric, you want to sidestep the Constitution and push closer to "Mob Rule" ? You liberal extremists are quite full of yourselves.
Can we do that with the President as well ??
Eric, ask what your union thinks about that.
Nice comments, just shows that Republicans love obstruction. Nothing new.
Note: your "starving the beast" policies aren't working and American's aren't going for it.
You have to love liberals that spew how this percentage or that percentage all want to raise taxes on the wealthy. Well duh. Certainly doesn't take a rocket scientist to expect that outcome. They should ask those same people that want everyone else to pay more, if they think raising taxes on the wealthy will actually balance the federal budget. You have to be a complete idiot to think a poll like this means something, in fact only an idiot pollster would think it worth taking. They could have guessed at the outcome and had it be as relevant.
Bonehead betrayed the American people that voted him back in, now it's time to vote him back out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Republicans expect to cut their way out of this fiscal crisis. It's call "starve the beast". Look it up.
If we had adequate revenues we could pay down the debt faster.
Democrats expect to kick the can down the road as a mean of avoiding fixing the fiscal crisis. Nothing being proposed by any Democrat does anything to get this nations fiscal house in order. Obama is going to leave office with our national debt over 20 trillion with or without anything he has ever talked about doing to address our fiscal health. Even his paltry 4 trillion dollar 10 year approach to the debt and deficit is nothing but smoke and mirrors. Obama will add more to our national debt then every previous president combined. Regardless of who you choose to blame, Obama has done nothing but continue the fiscal insanity.
America - land of the fee.
Ewent,
The financial meltdown was ignored by both parties. Don't even go there. By the way, I have no problems with increasing taxes as long as cut are made by Liberals. It's called compromise. By the way, again, I'm from the middle class. Not all of the middle class are Liberals like you think.
This morning I learned that my youngest sister and her husband have both changed their voter registration political party registration from Republican to Independent. As a rule, we don't discuss politics or religion in my family (a means of ensuring civility), but this morning I asked my sister "Why?" She simply replied "We both reached the point where we were personally embarrassed to call ourselves Republicans."
Three other members of my extended family, in the past year (in Washington, Texas and Oklahoma states) have changed their voter registration political party affiliation; one from Republican to Democrat, and two from Republican to Independent, respectively.
If the trend in my extended family (5 voters leaving the GOP in just one year, four of them becoming Independent and one Democrat) is indicative of a national trend, then moderation and the rediscovery of its former core tenets and the ability to compromise and reach consensus in the interests of the country would appear to be the only way that the GOP is going to survive as a viable political party for mainstream Americans, instead of just a haven for extremist, uncompromising, hateful malcontents.
Higher taxes = job loss. More people with jobs=more people paying taxes. The spending spree has to end.
Then republicans should stop spending. The only major continuing program Obama created was Obamacare which is fully funded. The reason the majority of Americans don't buy republican claims to be fiscal conservatives is because their action never matches the rhetoric. Reagan doubled our debt and Bush tripled it, in what world is that fiscally responsible?
Romney ranted about food stamps that cost 70 billion a year that were driving us to ruin yet proposed after cutting revenue 500 billion a year to increase military spending 200 billion a year and starting up the space program again at a cost of 50 or 60 billion a year. Now why didn't people believe his claim to be concerned with our debt?
What the right ignores is that Obama didn't create any new giveaway programs. When the Bush meltdown occurred 6 million people were dumped on the unemployment rolls and millions threatened with the loss of their homes, it was inevitable that whoever won in 2008 would face a massive increase in entitlement spending until the economy recovers. Spending 4 years trying to blame Obama for the meltdown and the effect of that meltdown didn't work. Polls show most Americans, rightly so blamed Bush by a 2-1 margin. Quit trying to play the blame game you can't sell and acknowledge that both sides need to give a little and maybe we'll get out of this.
Obama care fully funded— They put new taxes on everything we touch and it is not enough to fund Obamination health care law! He threw out a number it would cost and that number has tripled and the law is not even in effect yet! the five hundred billion he stole out of Medicare hurt Seniors but what the hell, as he said" America is full of old White people"!
Yay, I just got my ITIN number from the fine folks at IRS … yes there is a pun. Finally, taxation without representation … now, if I could only define my earnings as dividends … maybe I can make a deal and pay the IRS 17%? Nah, I am too small a fish.
Dividends are taxes as ordinary income.
Dividend are taxed twice.
Once when a company earns gross profits, and again when dividend recipients receive them
As they should be !
Why would it be any other way. For small business they can elect to be taxes as individuals )sub S as it is called) but large corporations with numerous stockholders must be taxes separately. Duh. That is the whole purpose of allowing businesses to incorporate and operate separately from their owners. Duh.
had enuf---you are assuming that the dividends were taxed at the corporate level but that isn't always true. Corporate taxes are based on net profits (not gross as you suggest) and we all know that few corporations pay the highest marginal rate. So the "double taxation" argument doesn't hold until all the corporate loopholes are closed.
markinbecker...........no they are not. Qualified dividends are taxed at a MAXIMUM of 15%
had enuf of our elected ones
This complaint never made any sense to me. My income is taxed. When I spend that income at stores, part of it goes to pay the wages of the store workers, and that same money is taxed again as part of those workers' income. Then they spend that money and it gets taxed again as part of someone else's income. And so on, and so on. So what? The lion's share of dividends go to the wealthy, who whine more than anyone else about taxes, apparently because they feel they're a superior breed of humanity that should be given special privileges not available to mere commoners who work for a living.
Out Out Demon !! This is not a site for advertising.
Look, I'm a republican. However, I see NO reason why the rich should be paying at a lower tax rate than the middle class. And I don't see why anyone in the 99% is so defensive about that. If Democrats are willing to budge on entitlements then I think the republicans should budge on this too. If they won't do that and we go over the cliff than I WILL be changing my party affiliation.
Thats too bad Ryan. Many small business's will be over taxed and the unemployment will continue to rise. Lower taxes means more jobs and more people paying taxes.
I think this being about legitimate small business is a huge sham. And if that's the case then they need to pass new tax code differentiating legitimate small businesses from individuals.
Ryan...The President shouldn't budge on "entitlements" unless those "entitlements" include tax subsidies profitable corporations don't need...those are our tax dollars too. And just how much more can be cut from SS, Medicare and Medicaid until every dime already paid in produces zero ROI? Is that what you'd be willing to allow for your "entitlement" in your 401K? Which by the way, once the Republicans demolish SS, Medicare and Medicaid, your 401K will be next on their hit list...how will you like paying into the 401K and getting zero back when you retire?
Not all employers pay living wages, offer healthcare insurance or 401Ks. What are these people supposed to do? Take 35% of their incomes and make a choice between feeding, clothing, housing and educating their kids or putting money in the bank for their retirement?
What do you geniuses think is going to happen to the stock market when you raise the capital gains tax to 25%? You do realize that is the rate for everyone, not just your demonized wealthy. And I do understand not all can take advantage of this due to a lack of discretionary income. But, after I pay my current 37% rate, take discretionary income and speculate on certain stocks, I must then pay 15% on any appreciation on those stocks when I sell them; others I might lose. Why would I risk discretionary income on stocks knowing I'll now have to pay 25%. This is when, many like myself will call one of the many phenomenal hedge fund managers and place money with them. As you know ALL fund managers maintain the actual hedge fund in the Caymans, Bermuda, Jersey Islands, and elsewhere. Your risk is minimized, and the returns are greater. Why kill the stock market? Those that can't meet the minimum requirement for a hedge fund will just place more in annuities that guarantee a rate of return, and no taxes are paid on the profits until you start to draw it down. You're playing a dangerous game here. GOP is fine with raising taxes, which by the way won't amount to anything helpful; but cuts must be made to entitlements other than SS and Medicare.
Gwaddammit! I keep reading ignorance, and/or, lies about dividends and cap gains being taxed twice. They are not! No earned income is taxed twice. No investment income is taxed twice. Cap gains are not taxed twice. Profits are not taxed twice. If this has happened to anyone, FIRE YOUR ACCOUNTANT!
So now you slip in the little "qualifier" of "earned" income ... how precious !
But then again you quickly LIE ... If a major C corporation has income, that is taxed. Then from the profits leftover, dividends are paid to the investors ... and they get TAXED AGAIN !! Why do you think S corporations were created ?
Thank you for demonstrating your lack of knowledge ... it simply proves you are a blowhard liberal who does not understand fiscal matters.
I think what some are trying to say is the money used to acquire stocks has obviously been taxed already, as it's discretionary income. The stock are purchased with already taxed dollars. Any gain made on those stocks when sold is taxed at the current capital gains rate. Now your pay is taxed twice, as the company pays a payroll tax then you're taxed.
@jim-1455434#4.16: If you claim you are that stupid then you are. You know fiscal matters like a crack whore knows modesty.
@Jack-1792739#4.17: Then such people are hypocrites, greedy hogs, and/or ignorant dunces. Income, or interest derived from loans, or income derived from labor are both only taxed once. I do certain financing for certain businesses, and I also earn money from another kind of business. I deduct my costs and pay taxes on the remainder to the Federal IRS. If I lose money I write it off. All income should be treated the same. I don't give a damn whether it's C or S corporations. Professional or Non Profit Corporations are different propositions. This business of claiming you saved the money after you paid taxes on it, invested it, then earned more money on it, and shouldn't pay any taxes on that earned money is a Sh^tty attitude.
Republican Party - The new Kamakazi wing of the political air force.
Good luck...
Obama is flying that plane ...... "Honorable General ! Are you out of your @!$%#ing mind /"
What a surprise!!!! The mainstream media engages in a smear campaign against the right and it results in a GOP image problem.
WHO WOULD HAVE EXPECTED THAT???????
NBC and the rest of the mainstream media can keep hiding the truth from the mindless dolts who want to believe in Santa Claus, but it won't stop the reality of bankruptcy and taking away of the Constitutional rights of Americans.
It is time to fight back and revolt against Obamanation and it's arrogant, racist king Obama!
Amanda Buckman: "I'll be the victim!"
Wednesday Addams: "...all your life."
Now don't go hating on Santa Clause - I like Santa.
What's this consist of? Armed insurrection? The election's over and Obama won. That's how we roll in this country.
So doesn't the right wing media also participate in smear campaigns or are you too blinds to see it?
had enuf, had you been paying attention you'd know that the "smear" has all been self-inflicted.
Auntie, Obama won the presidency and his powers are constitutionally limited ... no one elected him "DICTATOR". Many Republicans won election as well in the House of Representatives. They were elected for a reason and they control the House.
We have a Constitutionally defined "SEPARATION OF POWERS" in the U.S. THAT is how "we roll in this country".
Yet another poster who insists on propagating the myth of the "liberal mainstream media". A few facts:
Fox News is the highest rated cable "news" network.
The Wall Street Journal has the highest newspaper circulation.
Conservative Talk Radio shows dominate radio ratings.
Tell me again who the "mainstream media" is?
Good point, Jim...there is separation of powers and one of those powers is that Congress passes legislation. The GOP does control the House.
...so why is it they want the President to do all the heavy lifting in avoiding the fiscal cliff?
Good post Noid ... up until your final irrational conclusion. It is OBAMA who has demanded new taxes on the richest 1% (before the elections), raised to 2% (after the elctions) and further confused by Obama's mandate that the "deal" MUST INCLUDE TAX RATE CHANGES !
Congress makes tax laws, and it is Obama's job as Chief Executive to see those laws are carried out. Barack Obama, however, wants to MANDATE just exactly how those laws are to be written. Obama is usurping his power.
Besides, I really believe Obama simply wants to raise tax rates on everyone ... that way he gets more money to redistribute and he can blame it on Republicans !
Had Enuf, the media in this country is a wholly-owned subsidiary of GigantiCorp. 90% of all media otlets in the U.S., meaning radio, television, newspapers and magazines, internet, roadway adverts (billboards) and direct mail, is owned by just six companies.
SIX COMPANIES! OWN DAMN NEAR EVERYTHING YOU READ, WATCH, OR HEAR!
I would imagine that the financial aspect of this state of affairs probably doesn't bother you one bit. A realistic, logically- minded person would say to themselves, "Hmmm, seems like the corporate media is much more likely to slant the news in a direction that promotes their interests and those of the Party of Corporate Dominance and Power- the Republicans. Gotta watch out for that rightward slant in the mass media!"
Of course, a realistic, logically- minded person would already understand that trickle-down economics will never work, and would be voting Democratic.
had enuf of our elected ones....republicans did not need any help, they stepped on their own d**ks !
jim-1455434
Well, no. If he'd been elected dictator, he could have avoided this Republican-created fiscal cliff crisis and the Republican-created debt ceiling crisis that will follow, shortly thereafter.
Yes, and the reason they were elected is GERRYMANDERING. If Congressional districts all had roughly equal populations so that the elections actually represented the will of the people, the Democrats would now control the House because they got more votes than the Republicans. That would also have avoided the unending crises manufactured by House Republicans without the need of any dictator. But we don't have a dictator, and we don't have a real democracy as far as Congress is concerned, so we just have to put up with this garbage that Boehner and his merry band of tea baggers are dumping on us.
Let me guess... you are from that same alternate reality that predicted a Romney win in the presidential election.
Or how about the elephant in the room, the military. That should be the first place cuts are made
The "elephant" that you so eloquently put, represents not only programs, but real, living breathing, human beings. I remember when Clinton made deep military cuts in the mid 90's and many of my military bretheren found themselves unemployed and many base closure and realignments (BRACS). I don't disagree with military cuts, but they must be phased in gradually.
hadenuf...Give it up already...Your party lost and it's losing big time...When a party no longer represents ALL the people, ALL the time, they aren't a party...they are a regime. Your GOP party has lost some of its very best and now all that's left of the GOP are twerps too young to change their own muddy diapers. And all too ready to beat hell out of their elders incomes. Sorry...not going to happen.
Stop flying the Stars and Bars....Jefferson Davis isn't president. He's rotting in hell for his insurrection right about now.
Houston, once again you HAVE A PROBLEM .... you just can't tell the truth ! Furthermore, you are simply unable to realize that not all people think like liberals do.... where they think more government and more spending is the answer to everything !
Hell, tax the rich 100% .... and it still will not eliminate massive annual deficits . Government spending has been escalating for quite some time, and has exploded under Obama. Nowhere can liberals point to planned reductions in spending as concrete proposals from Obama. I have laid down the challenge for quite a few days now .... and no one can show me what Obama's proposals are for reducing spending.
Our country is now $16.37 trillion in debt and the Obama administration has yet to have a BUDGET passed ! All the libbies can do is fertilize the "money trees" with the $hit they dump out and pretend it will solve the fiscal crisis.
Ewent, AMEN. It's high damn time people started calling out the Stars and Bars for what they REALLY represent: slavery, and treason to the United States of America.
Golly, how many of those corn-fed, inbred, brain-dead rednecks with Confederate battle ensigns on their (suspiciously mud-free!) 4X4s support the death penalty for traitors? "Now, you best think REAL hard 'fore ya answer that question, son..."
jim-1455434
Your problem is that you can't handle the truth, so you just attack other people who do.
The Republicans lost the popular vote in this election but won the House anyway due to gerrymandering. TRUE.
The Republicans manufactured the current "fiscal cliff" crisis as a result of holding the economy hostage in exchange for raising the debt ceiling in in August 2011. TRUE.
After this fiscal cliff stuff is over, they intend to hold the economy hostage again for another debt ceiling crisis in February or March. TRUE.
Jim...No the country is NOT $16 million in debt...$3.2 million in 2008..remember? And, did you and your ilk think all the bills from Iraq magically disappeared the minute the Cowboy rode back home to Crawford? How about you go and find out what bills we are still receiving from Iraq before dumping a load of long horn dung on this president?
Or, is man up not part of right wing male bravado these days?
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwent ! NO, our country is $16.37 TRILLION in debt, so apparently you are "numbers-challenged today". Did you forget your meds ?
The war in Iraq was approved by Congress, including "yea" votes from Hillary Clinton and John Kerry as members of Congress. If those who voted FOR the war did not budget FOR the cost of the war, I fail to see the logic in your blaming this on the "Cowboy".
But then again, you ALWAYS seem to have some kind of hangups with men... talking about "right wing male bravado", rich "bois" and other references suggesting personal issues. You should seek help. Therapists are available.
ewent -
Evidently you have no knowledge of the Constitution either as it is not the president who has the authority to declare war for this country, it is Congress.
I know it's hard to comprehend as Obama has disobeyed this law as well when he sent weapons and personnel into Libya, but you voted for a Constitutional idiot and you got one - twice.
Tammy-311614
Wow, Tammy, you are apparently smarter than the Congressional Republicans because you were able to figure something out that they COULDN'T: Obama disobeyed the law.
I suggest you contact your local police and report the crime...Maybe you will get a Gift Card to McDonald's from the Republicans because they have been trying really hard to make President Obama a one-term president but failed....you, with your "theory," just gave them hope!
GOOD JOB Tammy! You should be so proud for being the Constitutional Expert! And you should be so proud for being smarter than EVERY Republican in Congress.
And as this article and every poll taken points out the majority of their party believes the top rates should go up. So why do they defy the people that elected them and instead listen to their big money men?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/opinion/sunday/24sun4.html?_r=2&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&
Larry, You obviously flunked Logic 101. Many congressmen and women have run on a platform of fiscal responsibility that included NOT RAISING TAXES !
"Polls" don't determine the laws genius ! Votes by our elected Senators and Congressmen determine the laws ... that is the way it works in a republic.
Meanwhile, Obama has NO BUDGET, NO PLANS for reducing expenses and NO CLUE how to improve private sector employment. He wants a charge card with no limits and Democrats are foolish enough to believe this is a good idea !
My logics fine. Obama has proposed budgets every year which republicans offer to submit to vote but which they'll vote against so they can't pass. Obama has offered compromise on each budget it's only republicans that refuse to budge on any tax increase. Trying to claim otherwise is a lie you couldn't sell for the last 4 years and can't now. Are you really claiming the mere act of not raising taxes is fiscally responsible? How is cutting revenue by Romney 500 billion yet increasing military spending 200 billion fiscally responsible. Or beginning a new space program that costs 50 or 60 billion a year when we have 16 trillion in debt? You seriously need a dictionary. Being fiscally responsible has nothing to do with raising taxes it has to do with spending less and neither Bush or Romney were concerned with that. Since you're so well versed in logic instead of name calling explain how Romney's plans would have reduced our debt and not caused it to explode? Romney's plan to cut social programs 50 billion a year might play well to his base but increasing new spending by 250 billion at the same time makes sense only to people like you.
Larry, let me "simplify" it for you .... not one single Democrat has ever supported an Obama budget proposal !
What Obama did was no different than what Reagan did in Grenada, or other presidents did with other military actions. While Congress has the power to declare war, the president is Commander-in-Chief and has a great deal of latitude in such matters.
It is not just the fact that the GOP fights only for the richest of us but their governor have declared war on the middle class with all of their union busting tactics. Time to vote them out of the state houses and reinstate union rights. The give and take over taxes is to be expected with the teabaggers holding a knife to Boehner's back. Boehner's knows once he caves he is done as speaker. Probably a good thing for him.
martinbecker, The garbage you just rolled forth has so many holes in it .... why your post could masquerade as SWISS CHEESE !
"Middle Class" is way, way much broader than your little unions which now comprise ... what ? about 16% of the labor force. The unions are an example of "the restraint of free trade" and that is why MOST new automotive manufacturing facilities in the U.S. have been built in right-to-work states.
Unions simply demand FAR MORE than they are worth ... and they have hurt themselves with their greed !
Oh, by the way genius .... the Republican-held House already passed an extension of the "Bush Tax Cuts" for ALL U.S. citizens who are paying taxes ..... back before the elections ! So your first sentence has been debunked.
Jim (numbers), the Bush Tax cuts benefit the 2% more than the middle and lower classes which is why the debt/deficit is so huge. If the tax cuts were so beneficial to the middle class the economy would be doing better...genius.
Dan Austin, The law passed under Bush many years ago cut tax rates for ALL who were paying taxes. While it cut the tax percentage 4.6% on the tax bracket it also PHASED OUT exemptions at higher levels of income so the effective reduction at the highest level was less than 4.6%.
Go back and study the original law as passed and look at the rate reductions for ALL those paying tax.
The debt is HUGE because of massive increases in government spending while tax revenues have been somewhat consistent over recent years. Research it, do your homework.
Mark...I think what fries is me is when the right wing goes after the 6 figures salaries of union leaders and ignores the billions in salary of Big Oil Big Daddies who live off our tax subsidies. It's the same with the HMOs.
Here's an example...when Ron Williams, former CEO of Aetna Healthcare left, Aetna paid him $72 million dollars...where do you think that money came from if not our premiums? His replacement who has only worked 8 years at Aetna is Mark Bertolini and his salary, bonuses, "other" and perks add up to over $3 million ...how is this possible?
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwweennntttt ! Perhaps you should blame the IRS and the Courts for allowing this to happen. Court cases over "unreasonable compensation" have almost always been won by the individual.
You missed the point Jim but that's okay.
Now why would government spending increase during a recession?
Because Obama is President, because Obamacare was "passed" resulting in a massive explosion of expensive federal bureaucracy, and because Obama has thrown away many billions on his failed green initiatives and union bailouts !
Obama bashes the 1% but has always set his tax proposal at 250K which brings it up to 2%. Your attempt to make it appear he lied is typical.
Like republicans are stupid enough to propose extending the tax cuts for just those in the top 2%. Their unwillingness to pass it unless it's also keeps the cut for those at the top despite the majority of their party disagreeing show's who they are protecting. The 98% is merely the cost they have to pay to justify keeping it for their friends. You debunked nothing.
%arry, get off your BUTT and read about Obamacare ! This law has ALREADY raised taxes on the "2%" with an additional .9% tax on earned income and a 3.8% medicare tax on "investment income" .... IT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE !!!
Of course, Obama also raised taxes on the middle and lower classes by doing his best to eliminate medical deductions, and with a ridiculous 2.3% excise tax on medical devices that some Democrats (who voted "FOR" the bill without reading it) are now complaining about and want to undo it ! Their lobbyists must really be pushing them hard !!
You're the one with your head up your ass. You bash Obama for spending yet ignore the only major spending he's done other than provide for those Bush dumped on the unemployment rolls is Obamacare which is funded. Bush funded nothing. 2 wars, 100 billion a year drug plan and cutting revenue 400 billion a year. I said nothing about taxes I merely point out the difference between how a responsible president acts and a republican does. You people never batted an eye when Bush implemented his 100 billion a year drug plan because he didn't pay for it. That might be what republicans consider responsible governing but not anyone with a brain. Your head in sand logic that as long as we don't pay for it then it costs nothing is idiotic. How about rebutting what I actually say instead of deflecting?
Bush hasn't been President for almost 4 years now ... when do you flaming liberals "grow a pair" and "man up" to accept responsibility for anything ? All you can do is play the blame game and run your mouth !
I did notice, however, that you totally DODGED MY POINTS about taxes that had already been RAISED through Obamacare ! LOL !! Now, little Larry you still get an "F" in debating.
Here we go again! Unions want everyone to have the right to vote! Except, when that vote is to limit their power! Once a Union leader get beyond regional in the Union leadership they no longer give a rats ass about the Union membership! They are just a source of income that allows them to play at politics trying to ensure that they remain in power!
when Mitt Romney made a comment about 47 percent being dependent on government the Left had a tizzy fit! Now here they are saying that 47 percent of us who want nothing to do with Obamination policies should shut up and stop obstructing the other 47 percents welfare check! My how things change!
Higher taxes on the Rich? All couple over 250 thousand and individuals over 150 thousand. Of course, they already pay 80 percent of all taxes while 47 percent pay nothing!
Before you say that 47 percent pay sales tax and the like, I agree! But, that sales tax come out of their welfare payments not any wages they have worked for!
As for the election, they probably did out smart us. they made us pay for the Illegal Welfare riding rats until their offspring were able to continue to vote in more welfare dividends!
That's the corporation they invested in! The Liberal left! The left seen to it they were fed, clothed, housed, and educated at our expense so that they could then keep voting these people into power! they made only one mistake, there is a limit that you can suck out a society and still have Society!
You created your image problem by your actions. The credit rating debacle. State rape. Legitimate rape. Voter Suppresion. Etc. You have reduced yourself to the party of rural southerners and are no longer relevant on the National stage. Toodles turkies, we are moving on without you.
Obamacare is fully funded. Something Bush never did for his wars, drug plan or anything else. Actually Bush provided far more in bailouts than Obama despite many of the costs falling after Obama took office. And trying to claim Bush's to the banks was repaid is irrelevant because he still gambled our money and it's also untrue. The actual bailout was peanuts compared to the 100's of billions banks were given by Bush by providing free money they could lend out to offset housing losses. The Government gives Citicorp 500 billion free money and Citicorp loans it making huge profits. You blame Obama but ignore Bush's actions. He printed a trillion dollars to allow the banks to loan their way out of trouble.
more hatred from the red / right; NOT surprising.
And just WHERE are we seeing the violence coming from...
Tea party supporters who recite the pledge of allegiance at and clean up the trash from their rallys or union THUGS and OWS supporters who tear down tents, urinate on police, prevent children from getting to school, rape and assault others who feel differently than they do?
You folks on the left are going to eventually reap the seeds that you have sown. Word of advice. Be careful. The NRA supporters tend to be on the right side of the fence.
Enuf, here you go with more threats. Sounds like sedition to me.
No threat Fascist, he's just reporting on UNION THUG activity that occurred in Michigan yesterday. The bully boys didn't get their way so they resorted to intimidation and physical attacks. These are Obama supporters.
Speaking of violence, the NRA and their supporters have to accept at least some responsibility for the epidemic of gun violence in this country.
They refuse to accept even sensible restrictions on what weapons and ammo are allowed to be sold, or in what quantities.
"Reap the seeds you have sown"? That happens every time a gun is used to kill its' owner or an innocent child.
NRA supports are cowards.
Enuf, I thought you were one of those that said you would leave this country if President Obama was re-elected. Why are you still here ??
... and here we go with the "Occupy protesters rape and pillage, Union thugs terrorize" themes invented ,popularized and kept alive by- wait for it!- THE CORPORATE MAINSTREAM MEDIA!
When right-wingers threaten anybody with death by shooting, of course, they're just exercising their rights under the 1st and 2nd Amendments.
Which reminds me: That fellow who went on a shooting spree on the other side of the river last night, in Portland, OR: What "well- regulated militia" was HE a part of?
No threat, my @$$, Jim! And, you wouldn't know a dictator if he bit you on the hindquarters!!
Fox
Do you know what the term "A well regulated Militia" means??
Maybe you should read these articles.
http://www.constitution.org/2ll/schol/2amd_grammar.htm
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment02/
who said i was on the 'left'? i'm a moderate, son, right down the middle. remember how that used to work, or are you too young?
Your "bartstarrwasafag" shows the hatred in you ! Hypocrite much ?
DeMint said he'd rather have 30 true believers in the senate than 60 who merely talked the talk. In other words they only want those from the far right even if they become an obscure party like the green party. They're well on their way.
And do the KKK back Obama? They're republican supporters. The radical left no more represents us than the radical right represents most republicans. Just another tea party deflection. Keep them coming.
jimjimjim,
my handle shows my hatred for the packers :). silly, silly, boy. also, 'hypocrite' is a noun, not a verb.
Are you a fan of "'Da Bearssssss" or "Da Vikings" then ?
"Hypocrite much" is common usage on this website.
Speaking of "hatred from the left", did you see footage of union attacks in Michigan ? I didn't think so.
The GRAND OLD PARTY is done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good Bye GOP....... HELLO Marxism!
Comrades, let the Revolution BEGIN!!!
KILL the RICH and EAT THEIR CHILDREN!!!
Smith.... GOP did it to themselves period!!!!!
J-860182 seems to forget the Republicans control the House of Representatives. He/she/it also forgets that Obama got the Presidency with a little over 51% of the popular vote .... not exactly a mandate for uncontrolled fiscal insanity with unrelenting government growth and NO BUDGETS !
Jim - It is the House's job to produce a budget - not the President. So your screaming that the President hasn't produced a budget is childish. It is your side that controls the House and must produce a budget. So why haven't they? Seems like sedition to me.
Budget bills have been passed by the House, the Senate refuses to vote on them.
Gary, because they lack specifics which is THEIR job. For all the talk of liberals being too dense to get basic math(etc) it seems you so called "conservatives seem to lack a basic understanding of how legislation and budgets are produced.
@anidiotlikeolegunny, Nice cop out for Obama. It is the President's job to enforce the laws of our country and the law says we are to have an annual budget. Obama has offered his ridiculous proposals that were so bad that NO ONE FROM HIS OWN PARTY supported them ! Now the House has passed budgets several times, sent them to the Senate where Harry Reid has refused to take action, effectively sitting on the House-passed budgets !! Harry has his "butt-prints" all over them ... you will have to physically lift up his a$$ to find the budgets.
Now if Obama were a true leader, you would think a Democratic President could get a Democratic Senate Leader to take action and get it accomplished. So are you saying Obama is not a true leader or are you saying he is incapable of performing his duties as President .... because other Presidents, in the past, have gotten it done while Obama HAS FAILED !
That's right Jim, the more you repeat the same thing the truer it becomes. Hey, how did that work out for Romney/Ryan?
We wouldn't be having a "fiscal cliff" issue if OBAMA didn't spend so much $$$$$ over the last four years!
jim jim jim,
perhaps a nice prescription-grade enema would help you fight through these issues of yours? the best part is, thanks to our president, even you can get this procedure covered, despite being a pre-existing condition.
Of course we would. Bush's last budget ran from Oct. 2008 till Oct 2009 and had a deficit of 1.2 trillion dollars. Add his last 1.2 trillion to 2008's debt you get 12.1 trillion. Had Obama simply ran on Bush's last budget the deficit would still be 15.7 trillion. Republicans conveniently forget the 2009 budget was Bush's.
Oh fartfartfart, perhaps a super-sized tube of Preparation H would help your problems ! Apply "LIBERALLY ... you know, all over your body. maybe it would "shrink" some of that "hate" you possess.
And Larry, the "blame game" is getting old. How do you explain the large deficits in Obama's other years ?
I post exact numbers you can easily look up and disprove if I'm wrong and you babble. If I'm wrong clearly you can site sources and explain how. Thats's why those on the right pretend that Bush's budget that passed in Oct. 2008 with a 1.2 trillion deficit was actually Obama's even though he wasn't even elected when it passed. It doesn't match their blame agenda.
Once again, a weak cop-out reply from Larry ! You FAILED AGAIN ... what about deficits in Obama's other years as President ? I don't see any "exact numbers" from you ! Did you LIE .................. again ?
Why is it that Republicans can never seem to remember that they caused the economic problems we have. With six years of total control they took a balanced budget, a budget surplus and a thriving economy and turned it into the worst financial disaster in nearly 100 years.
What a gang of morons.
Memo to the president; bend, but not over backwards. That said, I wouldn't want to be a Republican congressman trying to explain to middle class voters why he screwed them to get the backs of the rich.
Republicans don't have to apologioze to their voters. Goebbels would have been envious of the propaganda machine, Faux news ( not really news) and clowns like Limbaugh. Their voters are brainwashed.
I just wanted to take a moment to thank NBC for a spectacular concert last night. They really captured the spirit of what we trying to do as communities here in N.Y and N.J. I grew up on Long Island and now live at the jersey shore. I got to see Billy Joel when I was 12 and who knew I had so much in common with John Stewart first kiss at the jersey shore, mini golf at the Jersey shore, and more than a few beers at the Ketch. Kudos to all. God Bless
Now lisa don't spoil it for me. It was on to late for me last night so I Tivo'ed it for a more convenient time.....In the meantime Hopes and Prayers for you'll continued recovery and know that we will keep up the pressure for assistance to be added to this Wonderful group of Artist's and Musicians efforts. In the meantime keep the Anejo dry for a Christmas toast to everybodies Health and Wellbeing down at the DDI in the near future.
Independent Redneck Va, You have to stay up learn to stay up later. I'll keep the Anejo dry for that Christmas toast.
I had the honor of taking phone pledges last nite for 12-12-12 concert. When I was done i had a good cry. It was such a good feeling knowing that Americans were pulling together. Now if we could just get our elected officials to do the same.
Great show
Hello First Read . . . long time no see . . . just checking in to say hi . . . not much time for political commentary these days . . . but I do sleep a whole lot better knowing that President Obama is at the helm . . . he is the right man at the right time.
In terms of the "fiscal cliff", I like many other Americans fell over one long ago, so I must say I am just not that concerned. It will work out one way or the other, and most likely "we the people" will draw the short straw and the "job creators" will pretend they are suffering while they continue to watch the money roll in.
This last election proved we "human people" can still win if we pay attention and work together . . . so even if we lose some battles along the way . . . if we keep our eyes on what really matters . . . we are unstoppable.
I believe that . . . oh well . . . back to the grind . . . love ya'll! ;o)
***waves to my girlfriend Nash***
Long time no see!
I've missed having you around to share some red kool-aid with! ☺
{{{hugs}}}
A Day without Nashville is like a Day without Sunshine. Keep well Lady
Nash,
I fell off my "fiscal cliff" last year, and it wasnt pretty. I dusted myself off, and managed to hold things together with the help of some temporary unemployment assistance. I was extremelty fortunate in that things turned around relatively quickly.
A year later and it is almost back to normal, or at least the "new normal" - where I am employed, although at a lower wage.
Best of luck to you in your situation....
Great to see you posting, Nash. Wishing you and yours a Merry Christmas and all the best in the new year.
Love your optimism that in the long run we will prevail. You are right----so many Americans have already gone over fiscal cliffs and are working their way back, with no help from the GOP who was willing to let the economy suffer in order to defeat President Obama.
Thanks for showing an oldtimer some love . . . I miss you beautiful people . . . you all are always in my heart . . . we have all made it through a lot of battles together . . . we will always be family.
If we go over the so called cliff the taxes on most will go up $20 or so a paycheck. Not devastating. The tax rates will go up to where Obama wants them. Cuts in spending on social programs will be made but will also hit the military which is good and all the Bush tax cuts will expire. Democrats can simply resubmit a new bill to extend the tax cuts just for those below 250K and republicans won't dare block it. I see no reason Obama should back down on what he wants. If republicans want to protect the military they'd best accept the higher rate. They admit the raise is trivial so they're just fighting on principle.
It is not the present tax cuts Obama is worried about! what he is worried about is all the massive tax increases about to be implemented due to Obama care!
The party of NO now has the opportunity to say yes or our taxes will all go up!
Or Obama could just make the Bush / Obama tax rates permanent.
That would solve this whole issue too...
Larry -
Really? How would that solve our debt/deficit problem?
Cutting Spending or Raising Taxes in isolation will not solve our fiscal dilemna. The only way to attack the problem is with a combination of increased tax revenue, targeted spending cuts, and economic growth - otherwise known as the Obama Plan.
RJF--did you ever think that is what Obama wants?? HMMMM maybe he can hang that on the heads of the Republicans.
TNSEVOL --
Why should we give the government any more money? When have they EVER proved themselves responsible enough to spend our tax dollars correctly in the past?
Why are we not telling them to do the same thing we all have to? Live within their means?
That makes way too much sense Larry ! Liberals believe we should reward fiscal irresponsibility by giving them MORE of our hard-earned tax dollars to waste.
Taxes are going up no matter what any of them do, period, its in the healthcare, its in the common federal tax codes and to think Obummer is going to live off raising taxes just for the rich is not anywhere enough to keep up their sicking spending habbits. Half these demos and repubs are freinds after hours and to think they have are best interest is a joke to say the least. I'm sick of the whole lot of them.
Like republicans are the responsible ones. Bush cut taxes then fought 2 wars off budget and began a new drug plan costing 100 billion a year also unfunded. Romney proposed cutting revenue another 500 billion a year and throwing another 200 billion a year at the military that leaders didn't even ask for plus many billions for a new space program. Republicans only complain about the debt when democrats are in office. Both Reagan and Bush called themselves fiscal conservatives. Then Reagan doubled the debt and Bush tripled it. You prople always bash Obama on spending but never explain how republican spending without funding is good. We're waiting.
I am waiting to see Obama's "proposed spending cuts" as part of this "fiscaldeal". No one seems to know anything or can give any details. Do they even exist at all ? Is Obama selling unicorns to his supporters ??
Obama wants increased revenue and he's laid out exactly what he wants. Republicans want cuts in social programs so Obama's asked them to propose what cuts they want. Don't look to Obama to offer up cuts so republicans can pretend they were Obama's idea. You know the typical blame shift republicans do. It isn't democrats demanding massive cuts to social programs it's republicans. They own any fallout. Man up.
Larry, As I expected .... lots of verbage from the lefties like you, talking in vague generalities, NO DETAILS, NO PROOF, and NO LINKS to any coverage of details from other sources ! I think for your little response that to "man up" would have to involve a series of operations !!
Details, Larry, Details !!! Or are you not man enough to give the details ?
When Obamacare kicks in your taxes are going to drastically rise regardless with what happens with the Bush tax cuts!
Good Bye GOP....... HELLO Marxism!
Comrades, let the Revolution BEGIN!!!
KILL the RICH and EAT THEIR CHILDREN!!!
Stop repeating yourself, you look foolish enough as it is.
Agree!
Foolish isn't harsh enough to describe what this uneducated moron has to say. What a jackass.
Why do the Republicans think that they are so special over the people and what we need for the country to survive? Through out history they have to fight with the other party. This is a large set back every time due to their neglect of others. Entitlement were set forth in the Federal Regs for a good reason. We still need these and do not need then cut. We do not need the Military all over the world, nor do we need the most expensive Military in the world. Let's cut that first. Then space. I do not think we have to live on the Moon at this time. Cut space programs. Most of all the Government is paid way too big of salaries and they should be cut big time. Now why are we all not with this. Why are Republicans always into their money growing and ours looseing. I am sick of the Republicans and I hope they loose ever position in government until they consider who the work for and that is the people. Not themselves.
Say Good Bye GOP....... HELLO Marxism!
Comrade Darlene, let the Revolution BEGIN!!!
KILL the RICH and EAT THEIR CHILDREN!!!
damn, you caught me with my barbque sauce in hand