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Subscribe to RSSIt's a voting bloc as big as Hispanics, 18- to 24-year-olds and the staunchest pro-lifers, and it broke for the Democratic presidential nominee by a margin of 44 points.
"Religiously Unaffiliated Voters For Obama" doesn't really have a bumper-sticker catchiness to it, but it rang true in 2012.
Larry Downing / Reuters
President Barack Obama acknowledges supporters while addressing his election night victory rally in Chicago, November 6, 2012.
Voters who say they don't have a specific affiliation with a particular religion -- increasingly referred to with the minimalist moniker "the nones" -- made up 12 percent of the electorate in 2012 and 2008, a share that has more than doubled since 1980 and is up by 3 percent since 2000. Even more, 17 percent of 2012 voters said they never attend church.
Pew study: 'Nones' on the rise
"This is a big group, it's a growing group, and it's politically a pretty important and consequential group in that the religiously unaffiliated are one of the strongest Democratic constituencies in the population," said Greg Smith, senior researcher at the Pew Research Center's Forum on Religion and Public Life.
And there are many more who haven't shown up to the polls. In a new study, Pew found that in 2012, nearly one in five survey respondents nationwide classified themselves as "atheist," "agnostic" or "nothing in particular."
Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-Ga.; Bloomberg White House Correspondent, Julianna Goldman; NY Times White House Correspondent Helene Cooper; Washington Post Associate Editor Bob Woodward discuss the power the president feels he has since winning re-election.
All of that adds up to a substantial chunk of the American public in a country that just nominated (but didn't elect) its first non-Protestant presidential ticket this year. The unaffiliated bloc is comparable with the share of the electorate made up by either black or Hispanic voters. They make up nearly a quarter of Democratic or Democratic-leaning voters. In 2008, they were as reliable a constituency for Barack Obama as white evangelical Protestants were for John McCain.
That's not to say that the Democratic Party has gone out of its way to court them.
Lauren Anderson Youngblood, spokesperson for the Secular Coalition for America -- which lobbies on behalf of atheists, agnostics and other "nontheistic" citizens -- says that Democrats have been, at best, confused about how to reach out to non-believers, if not completely dismissive of the "nones" as a group.
"If you want to reach out to someone, you will. If you want to work for their vote, you will," she said. "We're still a very stigmatized community that people don't necessary want to be associated with because the word 'atheist' has all of these negative connotations."
Broderick Johnson, a senior adviser to the Obama campaign who concentrated on outreach to Catholics, said that while the campaign concentrated on messages of societal values that may appeal to unaffiliated voters, there was not a specific effort to court them as a unique constituency during the 2012 race.
The final result for the 2012 presidential election still isn't official, but the numbers keep flowing in day to day. The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd takes a deeper look at what the votes all mean with the Cook Political Report's David Wasserman.
"I don't know of an effort which was predicated on the idea that there was a large group of people who are unaffiliated with any particular religion, and the way to them was to talk about a certain set of issues," he said.
Data show that these voters' liberal affiliation comes primarily from social issues, like LGBT and abortion rights. Socially liberal but divided on issues of government and public life, religiously unaffiliated voters are far more likely than the general public to embrace same-sex marriage and to believe that all abortions should be legal.
But at the same time, half of them also say that they prefer a smaller federal government that provides fewer public services. One in five calls their political ideology "conservative," and another 40 percent describe themselves as "moderate."
"That segment really feels ignored," Youngblood said. "This is viewed as a very liberal movement, but there is also a segment that would identify as Republicans if it weren't for a lot of these social issues. It's really the intermingling of religion and government that's turning nontheistic Americans and religiously unaffiliated Americans off from the Republican Party."
The formal institutions of secular thought aren't exactly over the moon with the current president, either. While it clearly favored Obama over Romney, the Secular Coalition for America gave Obama an overall "C" grade in its presidential "election scorecard" this year, with failing marks for the categories of "Discrimination by religious organizations receiving taxpayer funding" and "Role of religion in decision making as president."
Those grievances reflect one of the common threads that link the "nones," even those who say they believe in God in some form: a distrust of institutionalized religion's exertion of political influence.
Fully two-thirds of the group said that churches and other faith-based organizations are too involved in politics, and 70 percent say that religious institutions are "too concerned with money and power."
Of course, money and power -- or at least the organizational structures that foster it -- are what make faith groups like evangelical Christians and Catholics ripe for targeting by campaigns that can gather data from churches about potential voters, plugging into the vast communication networks that unite congregants.
That's one advantage that unaffiliated voters, who have little formal structure outside of groups like the Secular Coalition, don't have.
"It's hard to know how, organizationally, they might be reached or mobilized, " Smith said. "That's the question."
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Separation of church and State, Looking good going forward.
Less people being brainwashed to serve the sky-fairy.
Please join the FFRF and help fight religious idiocy.
Its strange how the misconception about Republicans and Religion came about. It was the Democrats that booed God at their convention, and seem determined to defy God's law at ever opportunity. However the GOP does not appear to be on the religous wagon going down to the river to be baptized. The nation as a whole has lost its way so far as moral law is concerned and it shows in our crime, and economic status. When any nation turns to secular humanism as it idol there is a price to pay. America is paying that price. We never seem to learn from history.
And according to your bible, the nation who has your god will be prospersous. How would that explain Rome? You know Rome, which made Chrisitanity the State religion? Based on your bible, Rome would never have fallen IF your book was true. Religion DESTROYS nations!!!
A simple look at the present shows that the most non religious countries are actually prospering rather well and have great freedoms and low crime rates... I don't know what planet your from but actually history has shown that religious countries have been ravaged with atrocities because of their faith. You may have known this but I'm just forced to assume your not from Earth if you can make such statements.
Ron, nobody booed God at the convention.
its always easy to blame the ills of today on the evil godless liberals...lol...no matter how little sense that makes.
Funny how the GOP thinks that their god needs to be propped up by the government.
Apparently they realize he's impotent.
Secular humanism- a phrase invented by Christians which means, "that guy over there didn't kiss my a*s while I was insisting he agree with my warped vision of 'god'." Otherwise, it has no meaning....
Something else i guess liberals are jealous of, so they are putting their best foot forward to destroy the nation faster.
The economy is slowly getting better, and contrary to your opinion, crime is at the lowest levels since these records have been kept in this country.
Nothing drives a country into third world status faster than theocracy.
Conservative trolls. They used the Bible to justify slavery, since slaves were in the Bible. The use religion to oppose any change for the better.
It seems that there is a growing group of individuals who go one step beyond identifying as "none". I think because of the amount of religious extremism we are exposed to, especially among the Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), there is a backlash brewing. More people are finding themselves anti-religion, not just non-religious. Yet I also sense that many who have become anti-religion are not necessarily anti-spiritualism. This block of voters are going to be turned off by any candidate who wears their religion on their sleeve, especially if they use that religion to condemn the beliefs of others and damn others for what their dogma labels "sinful." The absolute disdain a growing number of people have for Pat Robinson and his ilk among the religious-right is actually causing people to turn their backs on religion and even oppose anything religious. As they sow, so shall they reap(?)
The Lorenz,
I am anti-religion, but am very spiritual, believe in a supreme intellectual architect and life here-after for all souls.
I'm anti-religion but not supportive of spiritualism as that is just a precursor to religion.
If we weigh about 10 pounds at birth, then we grow to 140 pounds as an adult. That means we were mostly non-existent at birth. And if all our cells are replaced about every 7 years, we must be totally different people when we get older. What happened to the previous us?
Most of the religious fanaticism and extremism people are exposed to comes from Christians like Jerry Falwell and that freak Pat Robertson. Christian Fundamentalism, The Tea Party, and Corporate Influence of Government are the biggest enemies of democracy.
Not religious... but definitely spiritual.
Man made religion has never really been attractive to me personally.
I consider myself a Satanist. I was raised as a Christian, then I became a Wiccan for awhile. I have been a Satanist for a very long time now and feel quite at home here. I have read many religious texts and know the Christian Bible better than do most Christians. I DO NOT go out of my way to start trouble, but I will not allow others to condemn and belittle me. They are nothing more than spiritual bullies. We create our own realities and our beliefs do manifest. I consider myself spiritual, but I am not a Theistic Satanist(I do not believe in a literal Satan).
I'm sure there would be a wide variety of viewpoints in this group, from staunch atheists to people who believe strongly in a higher power.
Since Satan is essentially part of Christian mythology, it would seem like one would implicitly be accepting both or neither.
More than anything, Satan REPRESENTS MAN! The majority of Satanists do not worship or believe in a literal devil, and they certainly don't believe in a 'god'. We are each our own gods.
In the Miltonian view of Christian mythology that has influenced us the most, Lucifer despises Man
What are the basic beliefs of a Satanist, Rose?
Self-knowledge and personal responsibility are, to me the most important aspects of Satanism. We do not believe in harming others unless in self-defense. We believe in loving those who love us fully and not wasting love on ingrates(it is impossible to love everyone). We are also capable of hating those who go against us. We do not believe in a heaven or a hell, but value our lives, here and now. If you would like to know more about what I, personally believe, you can get my book, "The New Testament of Satan".
Rose, you just described a humanist, not a Satanist. I think you're cofused.
And the founder of the Church of Satan, Anton LaVey, was asked why he didn't just call his system Humanism. They are very similar. Like I said, to really know what I believe you would have to read my book. I do believe in a spiritual realm. Not all Satanists do. I, personally, have had many spiritual experiences.
But you would think that someone calling themselves a Satanist would actually believe in the existence of something called Satan, which few humanists would, and you haven't even mentioned.
Yankee Rose,
If you adhere to theology of the Church of Satan, your theology is based upon a religion... I myself am a cross between a Theist and Deist, a believer in a supreme intellectual architect, both mother and father of all else.
I said I was a Satanist, and I do agree with some of the CoS. However, as I am my own 'god'......I have formed my beliefs from what I have gathered from my personal experience. I do not consider myself to actually be part of a religion, in fact, I perceive Satanism as the antidote to religion. LaVey called his church, the church for non-joiners for a reason. He inspired me and I like the title Satanist, but my beliefs are my personal beliefs. Btw, there is no dogma in Satanism. And, Jock.....there are some people who call themselves Satanists who do believe in a literal Satan. The majority, however, do not.
The reason that the church and the GOP don't want science to be taught is that when people learn about science they dismiss the fairy tales of religion and don't give money to the flock fleecers anymore, no money from the flock, no mansion to live in.
Yeah, like the part in the bible that says.....'snails melt'. lmao
That's not it! Its about morals and this country has none! Because no one wants to stand up and say, "Hey that's not right!" and we let some nut jobs back in the late sixties take prayer out of school because before that their was no shottings in schools! So get over yourself!
In the 50's we let some nut jobs put in god we trust on currency.
you can't pray in school? who knew? I see plenty of people praying in school, try to pay attention.
btw google "history of school shootings" and you'll find they happened before the evil godless liberals happened on the scene. lol.
so get over yourself!! (and get some edumacation, you sorely need it!)
MIC... If you can blame immorality on taking prayer out of school then I can say that all the medical and science advances since then and even your computer were because there is no more school prayer. How do ya like them apples? Makes about as much sense as your bible
Lack of God and morals is what is wrong with America! But when the Religious people are the minority then the government will do liek they have done all the others stand up and force everyone to conform so it will be full circle in the end!
Morals don't come from religion. If anything, the bible is the most anti-moralistic book I have ever read. It's full of god murdering women, children and babies. God endorsing rape and upholding rapists. It is an 'evil' book.
lack of morals? you mean like letting slaves go free, giving women the vote, not polluting the air and water, that "lack of morals"? lol.
These are the idiots that will be in charge of the country someday. Hopefully, they will wakeup as previous generations, that ideology goes no where. Only sound morale, fiscal and individual responsibility, real freedoms given to us by our brave men and women in the military will continue to make to make us the greatest nation in the world.
which "morale" will make us strong? like the "morale" of the founding fathers, where we had slaves and women couldn't vote?
Bad news for baggers, that's for sure. The more up-to-date T-shirt will read: "Atheist, American, Homosexual, Anti-Gun, Liberal... Any Questions?"
Even if not true, it would be fun to wear just to watch reactions. lmao
Eventually most people stopped believing in astrology or zeus or witches, so this was inevitable.
You are obviously to simple minded to realize that your comment is self defeating. Those things you mentioned all give credence to Christianity surviving. They don't survive because they're nothing more than mythology and other bs. they have no substance. Christianity will be here when you and yours are dead and gone.
People believed in atrology and witches for a lot longer they have believed in Christianity. Zeus not so much, but that is very specific.
Allowing Zeus evolved from Egyptian religion, then became Jove in Rome, he can still give Christianity laps.
Given the increasing numbers of wotanic worshippers in north west Europe Odin may outlive them both.
Technically, christianity is seeing a decline much faster then many ancient religions ever did. We'll see how the next 100 years play out... but I don't think it will be good for christianity.
Christianity mutated to encompass non jews, to exclude women (Peter), to become a state religion (Rome), to destroy pagan competitors, to to become a political force in western europe, it militarised for the crusades, then enfolded the idea of "just" wars (so the Pope could carve out a kingdom), it sanctioned repeated persecution, devastating wars and genocide upon Christian dissenters (aka heretics), it attempted to control the flow of knowledge, it became a religion of conquest and genocide in America.
Most of it's history has been one form of oppression or another, as a religion, it has killed more people than any two others combined (at least half of which have been at least technically christians), it has supported more brutal dictatorships than any four other religions.
This century the churches have been corrupt, anti women's rights, anti gay, and, most recently - anti children's innocence, a new low. In Africa the catholic Church did more to help the spread of aids than Reagan did in the USA.
Members are plummeting across most of the western world. The sooner it fades from sight the better.
When it comes to genocide and war. The Christians are by far the one religion that has tallied way more dead bodies than any other religion in history. I couldn't w/ you more Dodgy Merchant.
And why does this surprise anyone? You know if someone had asked years ago if you could vote Democrat and be a Christian, that would have been so silly that it would warrant no response. Today, however, the culture has changed. Your political view IS your world view. So the answer is NO!!!, a Democrat can't be a Christian. Republicans are for encouraging people to prosper, promoting morality and family values. Democrats are for making drugs legal, promoting homosexual relations and pedophillia, and for the killing of some 90+ million babies since the inception of roe vs wade. And we act like we are surprised that 'none' has grown. Look at the election, that's about 52% for Obama and then we you figure in a good chunk of fake Republican christians, you probably have about 65% that are non-Christian any way. So don't worry Liberals, you guys are winning........for now. Your times a coming. A time of darkness and isolation. The Scripture said that the world would hate the light and love the darkness. Don't apologize Liberals, you are all just doing what comes natural.
Your scriptures are irrelevant to the Buddhists, the Jews, the Muslims, the Sikhs, and the Nones. That's about 2/3 of the world population. Evolve and adapt, or else, you will disappear in your own irrelevance.
God supports Gay Marriage, Legalized Marijuana, and a Woman's right to choose. If God gave humanity FREE WILL. Then HE/SHE must be PRO CHOICE.
I suggest you read the gospel, where Jesus gets pissed at the Pharisees. The Pharisees were all about doing everything for show, claiming god loved them more, and they didn't care for the poor. However, this goes against your Christ's teachings and this is what the Republicans have become. There is no mention of abortion in your bible, and your god claims that 'man became a living being when god breathed life into him'......hence, the FIRST BREATH. The most Christ-like political affilitation is actually Democratic, IF you know your bible.
ralebol- the jews, muslims and christians all go back to father Abraham (straight out of "OUR" scripture) that's about 90% of all religion. You are way out of your league.
Yankee Woman: The pharasees and saducees were the democrats of their day. They were the ones who liked to talk about how compassionate they were while they paraded around in sack cloth. Much like the way your liberal celebrities like to kick some bum off his street corner so they can "raise" awareness.
No mention of Abortion? Are you that stupid? Of course there wasn't, no one dared believed that it was. That's an American liberal invention. At least the encouraging of it when other options are available. Woman, the blood of those dead babies are just as much on your hands as the doctors who have perfromed them. You're no way a real women, your just a Jezebell if you are for abortion.
"that's about 90% of all religion"
No it isn't. Maybe around half, worldwide.
Thanks for the compliment. Jezebel suits me.
Jack, in Biblical times women routinely left unwanted infants out in the woods to die, so there really wasn't any need for abortion.
christian/jewish/muslims are about 50% of the world's population, maybe 2/3 out of all people who have a religion. Nowhere near 90% of anything.
adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
try again jack? :)
FatDaddy: I can still find the Christian bible in the Mythology or Fairy Tales aisle at Barnes and Noble. Right?
Thank God/Allah/Buddha/Non God for the Non Religious people in America. Thank God/Allah/Buddha/Non God I'm a Religious Atheist. Radical Right Wing Tea Party Christian Fanatics are screwing this country. Open minded Liberal Christians and Liberal Catholics, I'm okay with. As long as they're in support of gay marriage and a woman's right to choose. And they condemn the Catholic Church's Hierarchy and Bishops for the blatant cover up of Catholic Priests sexually abusing children. I'm cool w/ those cats. And speaking of the Catholic Hierarchy. Those who participated in the cover up, all should be incarcerated. Right Wing Religious Fanaticism and Corporate Greed (Koch Brothers, Rich DeVos) are the cancers to American Society.
The only reason you like the liberal christians (which is actually an oxymoron) is because they are like you, they don't take a stand for anything.
So you support pedophiles. Correct? You don't have a problem w/ the Church covering up incidents surrounding sexual abuse crimes towards children.
Snake Eyes, you are a pedophile. You said so yourself in your previous post if I'm not mistaken. You slammed every CHristian Religion but suddenly thru out that you were "OK" with liberal christians? When do you think all the pedophillia started with the catholics? Bingo Jack, when they started to cave to Liberalism and allowed homosexuals into the priesthood. They went liberalism (when you claim to respect) and it all went down from there. This is old news pal.
Jack, there have been homosexuals in the priesthood for centuries.
lol, you're clueless. Homosexuals aren't pedophiles, and the catcholic church has had problems with pedophiles since they started.
but other than that, you've got it right. :)
Actually cupcake, according to the FBI, most pedophiles are heterosexual males. But like most right wing conservative Christian zombies like yourself. Facts and statistics don't matter. You refuse to believe that Global Warming is real. But you insist that there is an Invisible Old Man in the Sky watching over people.
Where do you imagine other branches of xtianity emerged from? From the catholic church, whom they still honor in their creed every Sun-worshipping day.
FatDaddy:Jesus Christ of Nazareth was not only a Liberal. He was also a Socialist who wanted to help and live among the least among us.
As an Atheist. I actually like the Jesus Christ character. I just hate all his so called Christian Followers. The keepers of bigotry, homophobia, hatred, and intolerance. I despise the Crusades, the Witch Hunts, and the Spanish Inquisition.
I can agree with that, SnakeEyes23. If you read their bible, you find that Christ came to destroy religion. He told humanity that what they called 'god' was spirit and that spirit was within them. The church used him and turned him into something that was against him, literally, the antichrist. The church will eventually fall.....once people see the truth.
I am not religious. However, I have a relationship with Jesus Christ.
Jean, would you explain to me what "i'm not religious" actually means? I've heard it a thousand times but can't seem to get one coherent definition on it. You know, "I'm Spiritual but not religious" Is that just some trendy thing to say these days?
I had sex with him once, but that's another story.
"I'm Spiritual but not religious"
That's been trendy for a long time. It was popular in high school in the 70s. It means different things to different people I'm sure, but generally means a vague belief in "something out there" without believing in "God." Or some people may use it for believing in God but not belonging to a church.
YankeeRose- You are one sick dude.
That's dudette, good sir.
If you say so...
Fat Daddy,
I think what people mean is that they are disgusted by organized religion that preaches intolerance and hate and revels in pronouncing their glee at how many people they think will go to hell. They believe in God and they tend to their spiritual life without the chains and bigotry of the born again haters.
Happy Festivus for the rest of us!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is GREAT news!
The greatest day in the history of mankind will be the day religion ceases to exist.
Slowly, ever so slowly, people are throwing off the superstition and mythology involved in believing in things that don't exist. Continuing to believe in a 2,000 year old book written by men barely out of the Bronze Age is just unbelievably stupid.
Religion has been the source of more misery visited upon mankind than anything else, ever.
I drink to the death of religion, in all it's miserable forms! Cheers!
Cheers!
Happy Festivus for the rest of us!
i'm off to the feats of strength!
Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.
TOP "1" sign that you are a bitter liberal that isn't happy with his life.
#1. You have a lengthy long thought out top ten list of why you hate Christians.
Pal, If you really think something is that perposterous you wouldn't waste one second on it. That's just not normal behavior for a human to have. Something happended to you, I don't know what (ala, dad wasn't there, mom never said love you, whatever????) the point is you need to make something right with yourself. You obviously don't care enough about religion to let it bother you that much. You're angry at someone else. Good Luck. I'm pulling for you. Really, I am.
Fat guy, I don't see any hate in the above post, just a good dose of mockery. And, unfortunately for you, fundies just BEG for being mocked.
I ascribe to the Buddhist philosophy (it's not a religion- there's no old biker looking dude in a white robe who's going to come down and smote me for eating at the Red Lobster). If you want to know what the Buddhist philosophy is, I'd suggest some of you "Christians" actually READ the words in your King James Bible that are printed in red- and then ask yourself why 95% of your religion is based on the words of "Saint" Paul, and the rantings of the lunatic to whom you give your paycheck on Sunday, instead of oh, maybe.....just the part of the Bible where the words are printed in red...
Buddhism is still considered a religion. Gods are not a requirement.
So basically it is like a company without a ceo. Or a ship with no captain or a football team with no coach. What you're really saying is that Buddhism is just another extension of liberalism...No organization just chaos and whatever the @!$%# goes?
No, that's what you are saying, because you are completely ingorant of any world view beyond your own.
fat daddy : i love how you jump to self-serving conclusions about topics you know nothing about. lol.
Vermontguy, thanks for the compliment. I guess when you have travelled and read as many books as I have, you are given a somewhat unfair advantage over a broader range of topics. But I still do have to research every now and then. thanks anyway.
hey, if you are proud of your ignorance, good for you! you do provide entertainment. :)
Jack, if you were so well read it would seem like you would have some clue what Buddhists are liberals are.
Jock, the only reason you claim buddhism, is because it is not the predominant religion (i use that term losely when describing budhism) herIe in America. If it were, you would despise it and talk about how you are a christian. You see Pal, you don't hate religion, you just hate your life and you think that if you can say something rebelious about the christian faith then "you'll sure show them". I point this out to liberals all the time, you can't really hate something that much that you yourself claim not to believe. IT's jsut not normal. Your problem is something deeper ( father, mother etc...). You obviously don't care enough about the church to really even hate it that much do you? Come on Jockk, what's really bothering you?
lol, jack has vast "mental powers" that let him reach deep into the minds of anonymous posters here and determine exactly their state of mind.
i wish he's use his 'vast mental powers' to predict the super bowl winner. :)
But doesn't Buddhism hold that Buddha become divine when he achieved enlightenment? Not the same as a creator God I know, but just wondering where it fits.
Jack, the only person I see hating anything is you.
Not divine- just AWAKE, which is what the word Buddha means.....in fact, maybe I should start calling Republicans UNBuddha, come to think of it.....
So if MSLSD is not reporting this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCJlk3gQzeQ
Who is to say what you are actually hearing is the entire truth and represents both sides of the equation? NBC News, the American Pravda.
What else have they omitted and outright lied about?
yawn. "american pravda"? lol. yeah, because msnbc is so official and has such a large market share, like pravda did.
you're funny.
It's a real shame that religions and even non-religions have become such an important political issue in this country. We built this country on the representation of all of us in making a society where varied beliefs could peacefully coexist. Religions that were suppose to unite are only showing their true colors: division and bias. The big question is will the non-religions just become another set of "religions", expressing their biases and even further dividing us?
Let's see, the non-religious will express their bias for rational thought and their bias for separation of church and state. Nope, not divisive unless you're a raving fanatical right wing religious nut.
All I have to do is see Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, and all the other shamans past and present that have made humongous amounts of money from the easily fleeced to know that so called Religion is actually a business... for the smart....and a religion....for the gullible.
Oh, hell yeah. It's BIG money. If I were truly evil, I would join them. lol
But Billy Graham Jr. isn't doing to hot. Awwww.
If people don't want to pray to a "god" to help them, that's their prerogative; however, don't think the government will take a deity's place. People need to rely on themselves, not on a god, nor the government.
I'm waiting for the day the US starts collecting taxes from the religious organizations...
How can the US justify a tax free status for organized religion?
Taxing organized religion could go a long way in paying down the national debt.
Taxing the churches would also take millions of dollars each year from the various charities that are supported by them.
You're so damn short-sighted. It's always some well intended organization that you liberals want to tax. Funny how you all hate organized religion but sure want the benefits from it. Taxes and charity. Pal, the worst church out there has done more good than the pathetic little atheist club you're a member of.
Jack, very few atheists are members of "atheist clubs"
don't confuse jack with facts. He's built a whole virtual reality of "facts" that conform to his bigotry. :)
bjones -
Well now that you bring up charities, I'm for taxing those as well. Why should my tax dollars be used to subsidize someone's pet project?
fatso -
So typical of religious people to jump to conclusions and to be intolerant of other people's views.
I'm not an atheist and I don't know anything about an atheist club.
I don't hate organized religion. As far as the "good" organized religion does is just your personal opinion...no universal truth there.
I'm not a liberal.
I'm just not for my taxes being used to pay for someone's club house.
To all liberals. What's it like to have zero belief, zero hope, zero joy? What's it like to have no foundation to stand on? What's it like to have nothing to defend? No God, no theology. NOthing! All y'all can do is just hurl insults and mock what you don't or won't understand. Can't defend your stand, you don't have one. Have to insult ours with the same old song and dance insults. What's it like to have to tell your kids you have no faith, but "son, i'll guess we'll just have to make fun of other peoples faith". Whats it like to know that the only true friends you have are the same atheists who hated their high school experience and their miserable upbringing. I remember my liberal sister's friends from the drama department at college (talk about some phsycological mis-fits) In short, What's it like to be a loser?
what's it like to have zero knowledge, zero intelligence, zero credibility? tell us please. lol. you just make up 'facts" about liberals and whine from there :)
in short, what's it like to be a loser? :)
What's it like to be so clueless?
The scary thing is that Jack might actually believe what he said.
he's pretty consistent in his obnoxious cluelessness, so i'm afraid he actually thinks he know what he's talking about. lol.
Oh the irony! lol.
fatso -
You're pissing up a rope
which makes you a dope
but don't give up hope
you might learn to cope
I am a local anomaly, I am an atheist and live in a very conservative, bible thumping, "god" fearing community. I know of several other atheists and, like me, they keep a low profile. I teach high school science and once made the mistake of letting it be known I was a godless heathen. Almost immediately I started being harassed by believers, trying to get my secular ass back into the fold. They brought me bibles at school, they called me at home, I even had one woman come to my home on several occasions and deliver tearful testimony about what awaited me if I did not change my ways. I almost had to take legal action.
I have many religious friends and I have a great deal of affection and respect for them. There are a select few of them that don't push their beliefs on me and I reciprocate. They don't pretend to have the moral high ground simply because of their beliefs. In other words, they (and I) live and let live. It is that simple and it works like a charm. We can even discuss our differing views and no one gets pissed, because we are secure in our beliefs. Then there are a larger segment with whom I simply don't talk to about those subjects. That is ok too.
For me, the bottom line is, believe what you want, let me believe what I want. How friggin hard is that? Why does anyone feel it is ok to push their beliefs on others?
I do have some problems with the evangelicals. They should not try to force their views on everyone, they should stay the hell out of politics, out of government, out of the health care system, and out of my bedroom. I work for a living, I pay my taxes, I hurt no one and simply wish to be left alone. I mind my own business, why can't the thumpers?
Pal, you keep a low profile (your own claim) the same reason homosexuals in a small town do. You're ashamed of what you are. Like the homosexual, only when you atheist find your little grimey group to slither around with, will you all truly begin living a life of outright rebellion and debauchery.
fat jack is getting testy..he has to invent yet more "facts" about the posters here to prop up his vastly inflated ego. lol.
Jack, Shame has nothing to do with it. This is how one reacts when one is viciously harrassed by a large group of people. You should go to Iran and then maybe you'd understand. Try putting yourself in someone else's shoes for once. You might be surprised.