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House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, took to the House floor Tuesday to urge President Barack Obama to “get serious” and offer a plan to resolve the impending fiscal cliff.
Speaker of the House John Boehner provides an update on the fiscal cliff negotiations, placing pressure on the White House to reveal how they intend to compromise with House Republicans on spending cuts.
Following a weekend meeting between the president and Capitol Hill’s top Republican, Boehner said that a deal to address the combination of automatic tax hikes and spending cuts set for the end of this month continued to elude lawmakers.
Boehner placed the blame squarely with Obama, whom the speaker again demanded produce a new version of his plan.
“If the president doesn’t agree with our approach, he’s got an obligation to put forward a plan that can pass both chambers of the Congress,” Boehner said. “Because right now, the American people have to be scratching their heads and wondering: When is the president going to get serious?”
The main sticking point involves taxes, and the question of whether tax rates should be allowed to go up for the wealthiest of Americans. Obama has demanded that tax rates go up on high earners, possibly to the levels they were at during President Bill Clinton’s administration. Republicans argue that they should instead raise revenue through eliminating tax deductions and loopholes, thereby sparing some small-business owners whose revenue is taxed as income.
But there’s also the broader question of whether an extension of the debt limit should be included in the deal, along with Republicans’ demand that Obama specify the areas in which he’s willing to make cuts.
“A lot of people know that the president and I met on Sunday. It was a nice meeting, it was cordial. But we’re still waiting for the White House to identify what spending cuts the president is willing to make as part of the ‘balanced’ approach that he promised the American people,” Boehner said.
The Ohio Republican added: “Where are the president’s spending cuts? And the longer the White House slow-walks this process, the closer our economy gets to the fiscal cliff.”
Still, Boehner expressed optimism that Republicans could still reach an agreement with Obama before the Dec. 31 deadline.
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Come on John, he's busy campaigning.
To Obama, that is serious.
And the only thing he's really good at.
WCA, you do realize that this is Boehner's smoke and mirrors tactic, don't you? Come on, even you are bright enough to figure that out. The president has this deal in pocket and the party knows it, they just haven't figured out a way to tell people like you yet. The Republican party of today is a big fat joke who couldn't govern their way out of a paper bag. Hey, haven't you heard? Grover is even capitulating on the 2% tax raise. Your party is so out of touch.
How can there be a "deal in pocket" .... since none of the Republicans have agreed to a vague, unknown deal in pocket and of course have not seen the details of Obama's mythical "cuts" ???
The one "out of touch" is YOU .... you fail to realize that Obama is content to let the "Bush Tax Cuts" expire on everyone ! Libs are so gullible !!
With Congressional approval in the teens, our Presidents approval over 50% (+13) and polls that show the public supports President Obama’s stand, Speaker Boehner and Republicans should be very cautious about an overreach.
President Obama has already made it clear that he will not provide any new plans until Republicans spell out exactly which cuts they want to make to social programs.
Yeah, they get you guys to believe everything that comes out of their lyin' mouths, don't they? president Obama has given a detailed proposal, which is more than we can say about the vague details that the Republicans put into their only proposal. Face it, guys, Democrats are known for creating a stronger economy after a Republican f-up.
Exactly! Dennis.
Remember president Clinton's famous words: 'If you want to live like a Republican, elect a Democrat.'
jim-
Obama does not want the tax cuts to expire for the middleclass because that would hurt the economy. He doesn't want us to go back into a recession, but apparently, the Republicans are willing to risk it in order to protect tax cuts for the wealthiest.
Interesting how Rep. Boehner is looking to dump ALL repsonsibility on Presdient Obama by saying, "If the president doesn’t agree with our approach, he’s got an obligation to put forward a plan that can pass both chambers of the Congress.” Note that the word "approach" is not a plan. It does not include details.
Respectfully Mr. Boehner, that BS and you know it. He has an obligation to negotiate, not to succumb to your wishes.
And with respect to the comments about "campaigning", Presdient Obama is bringing his case to the people (as he should). This is a common practice used by basically EVERY President before him in the modern era. To point this out as a negative issue related ONLY to the current President is nothing more than political pundits encouraged hogwash.
Please show us the detailed proposal !
Matthew, your logic is like trying to fly an airplane backwards ! As per the Constitution, tax bills originate in the House. The negotiations are made, Senate passes their version and President signs. Nowhere is the President given DICTATORIAL rights to DEMAND exactly what they should be !
Nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black.
Games within games as usual . Neither side wants to make the first real move to solve this problem. Wake up congress your day of reckoning is on the way. Matter of fact I have already ordered the tar and feathers for the occasion. Both parties are invited to attend. R.S.V.P. required.
No, Mr. Boehner. You propose something that can be passed by both houses.
Presidents are not supposed to draft legislation, you however, ARE !
Oh Goody John...Let's have the President and the the democrats negotiate against themselves. We all know that these bills originate in YOUR house. If you are starting from the absurd, then what do expect the democrats and President to do?
@White Collar Worker
It's simple as ABC..
A: Keep the Bush tax cuts for the 98%
B:Raise the tax rate for the top 2% to 36/37 or 39%.
C:then negotiate on entitlement spending...
The President had campaign and WON on this platform. What's so hard and complicated about that...
See the problem is the Republicans are trying to use reverse-psychology to deceive the public that the President is the sole person to make the budgets and spending cuts..basically doing their jobs.
without a detailed spending reduction, you can raise all the taxes in the world, it will not make a difference in the real deficit; there biggest problem is they have borrowed so much money from the old age and disability fund(social security), that it is impossible to pat back.
Bohner wants Obama to get serious???
Does that mean that Boehner expects him to go on a crying jag, just like Boehner does whenever he gets "serious"?
Boehner knows that he can't deliver the house on anything, just like he couldn't deliver on the "spending ceiling" fiasco that got us to the "fiscal cliff" in the first place.
Maybe Boehner should stick to what he knows best...handing out envelopes stuffed with cash right down there on the house floor.
John "The Bagman" Boehner. What a national embarrassment.
When Bonehead says something, it's the 1% mega Rich doing the talking !!!
Outzider,
So does that mean that we ignore the 3% increase that was added as part of the ACA? So you are saying we need to have the increase be up to 42% or did you just forget the added 3% new Medicare tax?
John Boy has this thing all backwards. The president has offered a serious proposal, but it's not his job to offer one that is going to "pass both houses of congress". In order to do that he would have to cave into the crazy faction of the repubs in the house. It aint gonna happen. Remember who won the election here John Boy. And it's the repubs who have been preaching the slash and burn spending cut idea, so put up or shut up. Grab your sac John Boy and tell the American people exactly what you will cut from the budget to achieve your "everybody out for themselves" utopia.
Actually:
"If you want to live like a Republican, vote Democratic!"
President Harry S. Truman actually coined this clever phrase back in the Forties
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/13212071-if-you-want-to-live-like-a-republican-vote-democratic
Thank you Alaska Girl. The Republicans have to sound like they have some Balls left. Lindsay Graham is trying sound like he is tough also with his nasty replies.
My only concern is that the President continue to tell them to go Pound Sand, just like they have done him for the last 4 yours. The Republicans have PROVED OVER AND OVER that they were and are STILL NOT INTERESTED IN GOVERNING THE COUNTRY. Just make President Obama take the Blame for everything wrong in the Economy and their CONTINUED OBSTRUCTION.
Their Pride, Prejudice, and STUPIDITY, IDEOLOGY, GROVER AND THE PLEDGE will not let THE GOP/TEA do otherwise.
Come on Obama. Tell him you'll cut $750 billion from the military plus the other $600 billion you promised before, if they raise taxes on the wealthiest and deliver the $1.3 trillion in new revenue you are asking for. That will be a wash, and as the economy improves and income increases through the natural affects of additional economic activity, we can start to chew into that deficit.
Let's see if they have the guts to go against the military contractors (who pay most of what they make through lobbying activity), and their fuhrer - Grover Norquist.
Bammy doesn't want a deal. PERIOD.
White Collar Auto:
RE: your post #1
The election is OVER, OVER, OVER and President Obama won! No need for him ever to campaign again. The issue of taxes was largely decided in the November 6th election. The Republicans have NOT yet agreed to increase the taxes on those making over $250,000 per year (top 2%). Obama has OFTEN and REPEATEDLY said he would not sign a bill unless this provision was agreed to. AFTER the GOP agrees to this DEMAND, other negotiating, on other matters, can begin. Until then NO DEAL! Capice???
I think the talk button on John B's back is stuck pre-election. He better get some WD40 on that sucker.
Obama doesn't want to cut taxes for the middle class but yet will have numerous NEW taxes in place come 1/1/13? Talk about planning our home budgets for We The People. How about he works government spending first.
Let's be honest - neither party has offered a realistic plan for getting a handle on the deficit.
Obama wants to increase taxes and spend most of the new revenue on more government programs. Republicans don't want to increase taxes. Neither party is even talking about cutting defense spending.
The reality is, we need to increase taxes and cut spending (in both entitlements and defense). We can decide now how to make those cuts and the process can be relatively painless, or we can wait until our creditors stop lending at low rates and then the cuts will be forced on us...and it will hurt a lot more than if we'd made the cuts ourselves.
lol... every time a NJer cries about Obama "still campaigning" an angel gets it's wings. Funny how communicating with the American public about legislation that affects them is considered so repulsive to some. ;)
Dennis, How are you today? Hope all is fine in Ohio. I don't believe, and I am sure you don't either, think the government should be run based on polls or popularity.
Congress has the responsibility to write spending bills and can, but don't have to, use the President's Budget Request, as a starting point. Boehner and the Republicans should should propose what cuts they want in entitlements and other government spending in order to go along with Obama's call for tax rate increases and put the ball in the President's court. One easy solution is cut all government spending by 10 to 15% across the board.
Personally, I think we should let all tax rates go up (let the Bush/Obama tax cuts expire). Let the payroll tax expire also. Tax reductions can be part of the revision in our tax codes which I would hope the new Congress would start on right away.
The worst President on record has no ideas or clue. Any one with a third grade reading level knew it in his last term. He has failed and continues to do so. Thanks idiots for another term of irresponsibility at it's best.
Boner reminds me of my kids when they're in a whiney mood, for example:
Normally well-behaved child comes up and says he's hungry. I say good, the hamburger-veggie soup is almost done. He says he doesn't want that. I give him the option of a bologna sandwich instead. He doesn't want that either. I know from experience I have two options at this point.
Option 1: Ask, what does he want? He doesn't know, but it's not that. Ask, do you want spagettios? grilled cheese? veggies and dip? a hot dog? And he answers no, he wants ice cream. After a drawn-out fight over why you can't have dessert for dinner, he ends up deciding he wants the bologna sandwich, and I'm exhausted.
Option 2: I say too bad, you get soup or sandwich or to go to bed early. Which would you like? He takes the sandwich, and we move on with our lives.
I learned a long time ago to use the option 2 method in my house. But it seems like Boner is trying really hard to wear down 'the parent' just in case he can get them to cave in to giving him 'ice cream'.
Not even a year ago the liberal mantra was "The Bush Tax Cuts caused all the problems!", now they are championing the large majority of the Bush Tax Cuts as vital to the economy. Funny that.
Obama has offered no cuts. He keeps attempting to claim the cuts made in deals made last year are "new cuts". Out of his 2.4 Trillion in cuts, only 400 Billion is new, and there is no plan to get there. They are vague cuts to be made to Medicare at a later date. They are not new cuts.
Of the 1.6 Trillion in tax revenue Obama wants, 75% of it is destined to go to NEW spending. The CBO has already stated that his tax plan would actually raise the deficit by 1 Trillion over a decade.
It is well known that the majority of future debt growth comes from entitlements. Obama/liberals refuse to even mention cuts/reforms to those programs.
The only adults in the room are the GOP. Liberals are know nothing devotees to a cult of personality. They refuse to wake up to the fiscal reality. Reforms have to be made. Every time the GOP has attempted reform, the left cries wolf.
The left will continue to be willingly lied to by Obama. It is sad when even Obama 2 years ago agreed with the current GOP platform; but now politics are more important.
By the way, those who want to blame the deficits on the Tax Cuts for the Rich...
It's the spending. It's the growth of entitlements. Stop arguing over 6% of CURRENT DEFICITS. 6%. That is what the left focuses on so they can ignore the actual issue. What a joke democrat politics have become.
While the Obama plan is based on what the Democrats want, the GOP plan is actually the compromise set out for in 2010.
Wow, the GOP is compromising. But you der followers are still portending Obama is the one compromising. Get out of your echo chambers and wake up.
That hasn't stopped Obama before, he is well known for submitting legislation under the name of one of his sockpuppets or butt boys.
Where are the details of Boehner's plan? The President is specific about the tax increases that he wants, and is willing to negotiate on the cuts beyond what he has already proposed. But Boehner has provided zero details. He wants to close loopholes but hasn't provided even one example of a loophole he will close. It's Boehner who needs to get serious.
The problem is, that with a still fragile recovery from the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression, hiking the taxes of the middle class will turn the recovery back into a recession. The elite have done so well over the last decade, now they have to suck it up and pay their fair share. Too bad republicans will do ANYTHING to protect the rich and screw the poor and middle class. Just look at their record.
The republicans have got their marching orders from their handlers. The republicans that toe the line will be taken care of no matter what happens. They may not be in power but they are only concerned with the present.
Come on people..... We all know that the Republicans are never going to agree..... Mr. Speaker is just doing his usual smoke screen.....
Boehner said. “Because right now, the American people have to be scratching their heads and wondering: When is the president going to get serious?”
No, John. The American people are scratching their heads and wondering when the Republicans are going to get serious. You lost the election.
Jim! Be CAREFUL of your HEART! All this EXCITEMENT isn't good for YOU! Maybe you should LIE DOWN and take a REST!
AlaskaGirl,
Love your moniker. Aren't you afraid the RWNJs are going to say, "Just like a Lib! She wants EVERYTHING given to her!"? -;)
Campaign is over and Obama is in for his second term, but our Capitol building in DC is housing a circus.
Do we have Legislators working there anymore? No, they appear to have enjoyed a few years of inactivity with the hopes of running our president out of office.
Now it seems like they liked those years of inactivity so much that they would love to expand them and keep having fun. They would like Obama to legislate in addition to his Executive work.
Priceless!
If you look back on obama's record, he has NEVER negotiated a single deal! He even let Reid/Pelosi do the work on oblundercare! His ego will not permit a compromise!
America doesn't have a Tax problem. It has a Spending problem.
I have no problem raising taxes, but it should be across the board. Everybody should feel the pain, not just the rich (ie small businesses). But, the problem will never be solved by just tax increases. Without concessions in spending, the president's proposals are meaningless.
We need to have reforms of the entitlement systems. The welfare system is ripe with fraud. We hear everyday about people scamming the entitlement systems (SSDI EBT etc.). They live better than most of us.
Obama doesn't want a deal and will not agree to anything the republicans come up with!!
Obama wants to send the country over the cliff and then blame it on the republicans plain and simple!!
It's takes two to compromise in the real world but there is only one way in Washington and that's I won the election and the rich folks have to pay!!
I wonder how many of you realize that neither side will have a plan that can do the necessary financial shifts:
1. lower the deficit from $16T to an acceptable level say $1T in preferably 5 but even 10 or 15 years.
2. STOP SPENDING on entitlements such as food stamps and income for persons capable of working; medicaid,education and assistance to undocumented/illegal immigrants; and
3. STOP PORK - Set a line item veto and
4. Stop aid to ALL foreign countries until our budget is balanced, and last but certainly not least
5. Pull out of all foreign wars/skirmishes and stop the bleeding of $1T/yr on conflicts that are not ours!
But hey, we keep sending these fools back to D.C. and allow them to fight like children.
There is no cliff. Boehner made this agreement a year ago, after threatening to put our nation into default, in order to keep the Bush Tax Cuts for the Wealthy. It was good enough for for the Republicans then, now live with it. I'm just not sure if Boehner's biggest problem is that the rich are about to get slapped silly by tax hikes for their years of greed or that there will now be a major dent made in the deficit (under Obama's watch). Maybe it's because his backers are about to lose a ton of government contracts, due to his actions.
Obama should enjoy his holidays and just stop wasting his time talking with Boehner. Let the deal stand.
Neither one is giving a detailed proposal. Face the truth people, Boehner AND Obama are not explaining their proposals.
Republicans' goal: To avoid the fiscal cliff by cutting spending and closing tax loopholes
Obama's goal: To go over the fiscal cliff and blame it on Republicans
He is a petulant, rigid, big government idealogue who has never had a real job (other than a 6-hour-a-week law lecturer). And with 23 million Americans struggling to find work and a 16 trillion dollar debt - a failed President.
President Obama was elected 2 times-not bad for a failed President,of course not as succesful as former Presidential hopeful,(loser)Romney
Stick that Boner back in your pants & zip it. The only plan the Repugs have is how to screw us more than they already are.
Speaker Boehner, two suggestions for tactics:
1. Turn up your hearing aid and pay attention; or
2. Hold your breath and stamp your little feet.
That'll show the president you mean business, by gum!
In simplicity.
It seems to me that Obama put forth a plan.
The Republicans don't want that plan - but don't have a plan of their own......
........so now they want Obama to put forth a plan they will accept, as if the President could read their minds.
Usually in negotiations if you don't like the proposal YOU are the one to put forth an alternative.
Just the GOP trying to blame Obama, for political reasons, and damn the country.
After all, those rich folk they represent have more than enough to get them through many years of hard times affecting the rest of us.
Joregon what plan was that? I love how you libs just think the worlds woes are created by the GOP yet the Democrats just seem to be the epitome of incompetance. Yep the democrats WON but what the F*ck does that mean in the end?
The one Boehnhead rejected.
ps
I'm not really a Lib. though in several issues I do lean that way.
I will say that this election year I was so sick and tired of the Rightwing crazies (birthers, choice is between a Mormon or a Muslim, a vote for Obama is a vote for the fires of hell, etc) that I voted straight Democrat. I didn't even look at any other candidate.
I'm 60 years old and that was the first time in my life I have done such a thing.
ps2 I would have to add the GOP fighting against anything Obama wanted was also a part of that and it seems they haven't learned
Only in politics can "right" be so wrong!
Eliminate the income cap on FICA contributions and require them for capital gains as well as earned income and SS and medicare are good to go into the NEXT century. But God forbid we expect the wealthy to pay their fair share!
No Democrat controlled congress has put forth a balanced federal budget in over 40 years, but somehow their liberal supporters feel they are the fiscally responsible party. Obama hasn't offered any solution that will see him leave office after his second term with our national debt under 20 trillion dollars. Obama will leave office having added more to our national debt then every previous president combined. The Obama solution to the debt crisis, raise 86 billion a year in taxes off the top earners. How pathetic. What is really sad about Obama's total lack of concern for the fiscal health of this country, is the fact that his liberal supporters are cheering him on. Apparently liberals see no consequences to unfettered spending and borrowing, we can just print our way out of this mess. Well for liberals, reality is right around the corner, and some of us can't wait to hear who you are going to blame this time around. History will treat Obama very harshly, and wonder why he was able to dupe so many into supporting him.
You guys are not being fair to the esteemed Mr. Boehner! He and his Republican / Teabagger cohorts DO HAVE A PLAN! It follows:
1) Reduce the tax rate for people earning over $250k a year by 18%.
2) Increase the tax rate for the other 98% of the people by 18%.
3) Increase spending for the military by 20 trillion over the next two years. (Optional - start three new military conflicts; one in Asia, one in the Mideast and one in Oregon).
4) Hand over the remaining money in Social Security to the Wall Street investment bankers to play with. (God knows they have a certain lifestyle to maintain).
5) Eliminate Medicare. Provide the elderly with $25.00 per month vouchers to pay for their medical / prescription needs.
6) Allow hospitals to turn away people who do not have the means to pay, no matter their condition.
7) Stop all unemployment payments. Screw them ... let them get jobs.
8) Appoint Karl Rove as Minister or the Treasury.
9) Appoint Grover Norquist as Minister of Defense.
10) Lower the minimum wage to $1.25 per hour.
11) Eliminate OSHA, the DEP, the EPA and Labor & Industry.
12) Make unions illegal.
13) Work stopping strikes are illegal, workers who go on strike will be charged with corporate terrorism.
14) All government purchasing decisions will be handles by the new Office of Procurement, headed by the Koch Brothers.
15) All environmental restrictions will be removed from oil and gas drilling.
16) All corporations employing in excess of 5,000 employees and with gross earnings over $500 million will receive an annual achievement award in the amount of $200 million.
17) Democratic presidents will no longer have the use of Air Force One or the Secret Service. They will have to take a Greyhound bus and buy a 357 magnum for protection.
18) All elected representatives will receive an annual automatic pay increase of 57% of their previous year's salary.
19) All funding to the National Endowment for the Arts, Public Broadcasting and any other artsy-fartsy crap will stop immediately.
20) Social Security will be phased out over the next two years. Those not currently receiving it will never get it. Those currently receiving it will have their benefit amount lowered by 50% per year for the next two years. (Although working people will still be required to pay into it.)
There! That is the Republican plan in a nutshell. I sure wish all the Democrats would stop saying that Mr. Boehner doesn't have a plan. He DOES have a plan ...
... HE JUST DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE!!!
Midterm Elections 2014!!! Straight Democratic Ticket!!!
"Boehner demands Obama 'get serious' and offer new plan" Considering the reality that is Congress today Boehner "You people" should provide a budget and plan- pass it - send it to POTUS so he can veto it with justifications pointing out how out of touch you all are then submit his own as an executive order with 1 week to for a take it or leave it up/down vote. Why? any other way and you will continue to kick the can down the road, filibuster, posture and make yet another ass out of yourselves while we the people acclimate ourselves to anarchy.
Y'all just never get tired of the lies, do ya?
23 million Americans are not struggling to find work... that's been debunked many times.
16 trillion dollar debt, failed president - look to none other than George W. Bush for those!
Just a quick reminder of the changes we have seen in the last 4 years:
... the numbers for Bush's last three months. Between October and November, 597,000 jobs were lost; between November and December, 681,000 were lost; and between December and January, 741,000 were lost.
August 30, 2012 -- The private sector created, on average, about 157,000 jobs a month in the past 29 months — a pace somewhat faster than population growth.
DJIA Dec 1, 2008 8149
DJIA Dec 12, 2012 13256
Dec. 29, 2008 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. corporate earnings fell for a sixth-straight quarter, the longest streak in at least 20 years, as consumer spending on automobiles, homes and retailers collapsed.
Jul 31, 2012 (Bloomberg) -- Profits for companies in the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index have grown for 10 straight quarters, helping to power the index to a more than twofold increase since March 2009.
Do schools even have civics classes anymore?
Maybe schoolhouse rock was too complicated?
House writes a bill the senate is willing to sign, then;
Senate signs their bill, with changes if they want them, that the House is OK with.
Then, they both send a bill the President is willing to sign or veto, which they can override.
Folks, there is NO part in there where the president has to come up with anything.
He can hint at what he likes, he can say what he will or not sign,
He can even write stuff, but that is NOT in the constitution.
There is a hierarchy of power and influence,
the House is at the bottom, they are generally punks, but they do get to sign off on budgets.
next is the Senate, fewer of them, and inversely proportional influence.
Then the president, which we ALL got to vote on.
While the House can wiggle all they want on the budget, they STILL have an OBLIGATION to write bills the others are willing to sign, that's how it works, anything else is a betrayal of their obligations to this country.
Its ALWAYS been simple, don't let these over payed, too well insured and pension covered yahoos tell you any different. TERM LIMITS FOR CONGRESS!!!
The weeper of the house still doesn't get it...He has to put up the serious DETAILED proposal. No more pie-in-the-sky tax loopholes...real detailed plans. As far as i'm comcerned, the fiscal-cliff was 98% of what Boner wanted in the first place.
And where are the DETAILS of what Obama has in mind ? Obama is taking the strong-arm position of demand tax rate hikes, but offers only vague promises of intended cuts in the future !
Can you show us some concrete spending cuts Obama will agree to ? Tax hikes alone are woefully insufficient to handle the annual deficits.
I've got an idea. How about we raise taxes BUT, propose a budget of the Clinton era? You libs just love to tout the "Clinton left a surplus" BS so much (even though it isn't true) let's just do that.
Jim, i believe that the president has laid out concrete proposal. that's what has boner's panties in a twist. Read a little.
News flash: the President is the only one in D.C. with any credibility. At this point, Boehner should at least appear to want to compromise with him.
But what do I know? I just watch the news on TV every night, and read more during the day on the Internet ... like MOST Americans. Dear Repubs: average Americans want a compromise, and you're not looking too good in that department.
The GOP is immobolized by their fear that the Tea Party and Norquist will stop at nothing to unseat them first chance they get. Meanwhile they (Tea Party) are going to sink this country if they don't wise up.
Are you kidding me? YOU LOST! Suck it up. Cut a deal. And get back to work!
You're in no position to criticize or make demands.
We the People...rejected your ideas by a sizeable margin. NO! to Tax breaks for the rich! NO! to vouchers! NO! keep you hands of Social Security and Medicare! NO! fiscal cliff.
Take what the President is offering or prepare to FIRED in 2014. It's as simple as that John.
We the People...have spoken.
Show me where to read Bryan ! Has Obama submitted details ? Has he signed off in writing ??
"SHOW ME THE MONEY" !!!!
Oh, and SKIPPY BOY ... lose the arrogance .... Obama received a little over 51% of the popular vote, and nowhere was the vote listed as being for a DICTATOR ! You are only "part" of "We the people".
Skip---I usually agree with your posts, but how can the Republicans get "back to work" when they never do any work in the first place. Short weeks in DC and endless recesses (during which town meetings are never held) and NO JOBS BILLS does not equate to work.
@Jim, Obama won by a wider margin that Bush did in 2004, when Bush proclaimed he had "a mandate".
Boehner is the one that needs to come up with a proposal that will pass both houses.
jim "We the people" reelected the President. 51% is more than your guy got.
Eric, go to your room and put up your toys. Bush is irrelevant in this discussion. It is Obama who is attempting to mandate tax law and putting ALL PRESSURE on Boehner.
Obama doesn't care about extending the tax cuts for any taxpayers ! He has you fooled !!
Oh, and smitty .... yes, Obama won. Nowhere does that give him authority to MANDATE TAX LAW .... which is what our power-hungry President is attempting !
I don't think the President needs to continue to "guess" what Republicans will agree to when the GOP history says they are "against" anything and everything the President is "for".
TO: Talk to the Hand who wrote:
The $450 billion dollar surplus that Clinton left behind is what Bush based his "tax cuts" on, purportedly giving the American People back surplus tax money that was collected during the Clinton Administration.
Bonehead, stop protecting the Mega Rich that are hiding Trillion's in offshore havens and maybe we can get something done !!!!!!!!!!
The default argument of the Obama supporter "Bush did it first". Bush was the worst President in living memory and you claim his actions justify yours? Obama, the second worst President in living memory....but the there's still time for that to change.
BTW How did that mandate claim work out for Bush?
jim Well jimbo please explain your comment about how the President is power hungry?
So, are you for the Clinton spending levels. I actually think this is what Obama should do. After all he campaigned against the Bush economy and on the Clinton economy. The last 4 years were curiously absent from his campaign.
You're right Steeler Fan, what was I thinking?
Happy Holidays
Uh smitty @2.16, have you been on siesta lately ? President Obama wants to ignore the law and give HIMSELF power to raise the national debt limit WITHOUT Congressional approval !
He wants to be in charge of spending ... a credit card with no limits and no one to answer to about his spending ! That is INSANELY power hungry !!
How about, NONE of them have any plan! This has become a card game where one party refuses to show their hand or make a play. Because of thsi ineptitude we will surely go over the cliff, watch taxes rise and recession hit us harder than before.
The president and the Democrats won't accept any deals from the Republicans so why should they even try?Let's just move on forward over that cliff.Watch that last step,it's a doozey.
Amy, so if you watch the news at night and read the new during the day, when you you WORK? Of course your a democrat. Probably sitting there on your iPhone too, eh?
First things first - REFORM WELFARE.
Boehner is just trying to shift the blame from the GOP onto Obama because I'm sure he is aware of the polls that show the majority of Americans are ready to blame the GOP if we go over the fiscal cliff. It's either that or Boehner just doesn't understand plain English because Obama has already made it clear to him that he is sticking by his guns. I think it's all just political theater, but I think most Americans are getting sick and tired of the play that is being presented in that theater and want their money back.
It is time for Republicans to admit they were duped, out played by Obama, and that the deal Democrats are pretending to want to solve is the deal they actually want. Heading off the fiscal cliff will only be stopped if Democrats felt they would be blamed. But so long as the blame falls on Republicans, it is full steam ahead. This deal gives Obama the massive tax increases and cuts to defense he so desperately wants. Not that it will control his massive deficits or curtail spending, but it will crush the Republicans which is all he cares about. Obama is more interested in the political gains then the damage to the country. So Boehner should either demand that all future talks take place with cameras in the room, or walk away and let the chips fall where they may. Nothing being discussed actually solves anything anyway.
who the hell does boehner think he is. he's just the speaker of the house. obama is the president. he can't demand anything . he's just the leader of the lowest house in government. he can't demand anything. just make the deal. if you can't lead your conference then you suck. and are you going to make us go over the cliff till after your election? cause then your a selfish little punk. be a leader you orange non human. make the deal .
“Because right now, the American people have to be scratching their heads and wondering: When is the president going to get serious?”
Still think those pesky polls are all skewed - eh, Mister Speaker?
and I am sure a lot of American's are scratching their heads wondering when is the GNOP going to get serious and present CONCRETE plans as to what tax loopholes and deductions will be affected!
Democrats talk vaguely about "loopholes" but no one can seem to define one.
What is wrong with this man. Is he that thick that he thinks the public is going to fall for his BS. How totally arrogant. Get to work Bohner and get the job done you weasel.
The orange man isn't trying to win the public. He's trying to win HIS people the 1%. Not even the whole 1% it's probably more like a dozen individuals he's trying to please.
Jim, you got that backwards...it's the republicans who won't name the loopholes, because they know it would be political suicide. Come on now.
come on, really? -
Hey, did you happen to catch the opening on SNL this past Saturday? It's not even just a dozen individuals!
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/fiscal-cliff-press-conference-cold-open/1426435/
Bryan, you missed the point completely. EVERYONE ... talks about removing the "loopholes", but NO ONE (from either party) seems to be able to define specific "loopholes" to be removed.
Can you define a loophole ? Can you give a clear example of two of them ?
What shoddy Journalism ! The title says Boehner "demands" ... and then the first sentence uses the words "to urge" !! Talk about distortions and it doesn't take these writers long.
Of course, what many fail to realize is that Obama HAS NO INTENTION of extending the "Bush Tax Cuts" for anyone. Why do you think the extension he signed was only good until JUST AFTER the elections were over ! He's been re-elected, taxes will go up on everyone ... giving him more to redistribute ..... and he can BLAME it on the Republicans !
He's getting his wish. The evil rich have to pay for the last 200 years of stealing wealth for themselves and leaving everyone else behind to fend for themselves. Oh, wait. that's how the rich got rich. Fending for themselves.
And as one guy on TV said last night "It is time for the rich to pay America back". Can you get more Obamanarcissistic than that?
This is only the beginning lib/progressives. You are going to get what you voted for and when the smoke of "equality" goes away, I don't think you are going to like it.
Well at least Michigan is headed in the right direction. Public jobs and right to work are one. Now, for the private sector.
jim numbers -
Shoddy journalism? So the headline says "demands", the first sentence says "urges", and then there's an actual quote where the Speaker says the president has "got an obligation".
Hey, maybe you should be sitting in on these negotiations. Sounds like you could posture and parse with the best of them. Oh, and speaking of shoddy reporting, I guess you don't have any problem with Talk To The Hand quoting "one guy on tv" last night in one breath and then making it sound like it was a direct quote from President Obama in the next, do you? Of course not.....
Focus on the article libbie. Obama heads to vacation with no concrete cuts for anything other than the military.
The President has pushed heavy demands about what he will accept ('gangsta style) then he "bugs out" to Hawaii .... vacating any obligation to negotiate in good faith.
jim Well jimbo your quite the little republican/tea party pitbull today. Woof Woof.
TO: jim-1455434 who wrote:
The President isn't the only one heading to vacation, so is Boehner and the Teagaggers, and I'm all for the President pushing his agenda, bugging out, and leaving the situation squarely in the hands of Republicans who are very well aware of that which the President is willing to agree.
American Girl - it's useless trying to be rational with jim. He is just an angry Republican who hasn't learned anything over the last 4 years.
And, let's get real, when is the President REALLY on vacation? He's working all the way there and every day he is there. The little republicans had no problem with Bush vacationing or the fact that their disgusting representatives work less than any other workers in the country but he's harping on the President?
Doesn't that really say all there is to say about jim and his lack of reasoning? It's why I have him on ignore. He's pretty useless - just spouts the far right talking points from one day to the next!
Oh, my feelings are so hurt .... and you make such a liar out of yourself ! If you truly have mo on "ignore" then why is it you always feel compelled to respond to most every post I make ?
Still giving out bogus tax advice there queenie ... the kind based upon incomplete information ?
jim Woof!! Woof!! The little republican pitbull speaks
Maybe we could all communicate with Jim ! If we used more exclamation points ! Speaking of someone who needs to get a job !
I have a job Layton .... you should try it sometime ! Maybe I should put all my letters in boldface like Beverly from Chicago. Would the make you feel better ?
If YOU don't compromise with the president Mr. Bohehner, the automatic tax increases that your colleague Mr. Ryan voted for will be TRILLIONS more than the president is asking for. You lose either way Mr. Boehner. It is time for YOU to get serious.
No, the American people will lose .... that is the way Obama planned the Bush Tax Cut extension ... until just after the elections were over Tax bills are to arise from the House. Obama has no right to DEMAND what tax legislation is to be .... it is his job to ENFORCE it, not DECREE it !
The congress put that into place, not the president.
" it is his job to ENFORCE it, not DECREE it !"
jim, last time I checked, the President was duly and fairly ELECTED by a majority of the American people. Twice, in fact.
Ignoring their wishes would be a "decree".
Otherwise, I kind of think he's just representing us. You know, like he gets paid to?
the republican/tea party thought they would make the President a "one term President". Their plan failed badly. They thought they would have a president of their liking to make the bush tax cuts last forever. If they would have been doing their job this problem would not be happening today. Whats more important the country or fighting with the President?
The Boehner ought to put together a plan that will pass the Senate AND get signed by the President. His chamber is out numbered.
John Boehner and Obama will complete the financial packet by tomorrow. The silent features of the packet are: (i) Keep existing tax rates for income up to 500,000 (ii) All loop holes for corporations and individuals making more than 1 million will be slashed (iii) Defense will cut by $200 billion (iv) Medicare premium of individual making more than $150,000 will go up by $100 per month. (iv) Medicare age will be raised to 67 after year 2015 of people who are 60 years or less on Jan 2013 (v) Social Security, Medical, welfare, food stamps, mortgage interest, charitable deduction etc will be discussed by a joint committee next year and changes will be implemented in the year 2014. (vi) All corporations will have to pay minimum tax of 15% (vii) Deficit will be cut by at least $500 billion starting from year 2013. Looks like Tea-Party Congressmen will cry too loud, but there will not be any one to hear them. Some liberals will also make noise but Obama and Boehner will enjoy their lunch-dinners and GOLF.
john - gonna check your list tomorrow. Most of this I can live with - actually the country can live with. And, since a large group of the top 2%ers - Republican at that - said last week that they need to be paying more taxes and that it will make absolutely NO difference in their hiring - I think this is something we can all go with.
Source? Seems too reasonable to be true...
I believe there's a a deal that's close to being inked, and I think President Obama has succeded in raising the capital gains tax as evident of all the "Special Dividends' being paid by out.
Companies just don't empty their cash drawers for nothing.
This is big money in play; and I would guese the President "allowed" them time to work the details - this gave him a bargaining chip to soften the entittlement cuts.
Gee, White Collar Auto, it also seems the President is also really good at putting the Speaker and the GOP/T caucus into a box of their own devising.
Yes, Obama is clever indeed ! No one said integrity and being clever were the same.
Repubs are the ones without integrity, The are the ones saying changing the way the debt ceiling is handled (Obama approves and Congress can over ride with 2/3s vote) gives Obama a blank check for spending when we all know it only authorizes paying the money owed because of congressional expenditures. I have heard this lie so many times from repubs like McConnel and they all know it is a blatant lie. Obama can only spend for those things approved ny Congress.
There are liars, damn liars and tp repubs owned by the koch bros who funded their so called grass roots organization.
Seventy-five percent of the new revenue pulled in by President Barack Obama's "fiscal cliff" plan would go toward new spending, not toward deficit reduction, the Republican side of the Senate Budget Committee contends.
According to the minority side of the Senate Budget Committee, $1.2 trillion of the proposed $1.6 trillion in tax hikes would go toward new spending, while only $400 billion would go toward deficit reduction.
"The [president's] plan called for $1.6 trillion in new taxes, twice what the president asked for in the campaign. He asked for $800 billion during the campaign. Now he wants $1.6 trillion in new taxes," said Senator Jeff Sessions, the ranking member on the Senate Budget Committee, last week on the floor.
"Spending under that plan would increase $1 trillion above the levels agreed to in the Budget Control Act, as signed into law. We agreed to the Budget Control Act 16 months ago, in August 2011, and we raised the debt ceiling and agreed to reduce spending. We raised the debt ceiling $2.1 trillion and agreed to reduce spending $2.1 trillion. The President's plan would take out over $1.1 trillion of those spending limitations that are in current law. I repeat, spending will increase more than $1 trillion above the already projected growth in spending," Sessions added.
"Our spending is growing. It is not decreasing. It is already projected to grow, but the President's proposal is to have it grow even faster than the law currently calls for."
Source please? If it's the GNOP thank Rush, Sean and Grover for the Chart....I'm sure they used Romney's etch a sketch to create it...
The Weekly Standard
It will stimulate the economy stupid!
The Republicans are so completely twisted up about the deficit, the deficit, the deficit! Yes, the deficit is a problem, but the bigger problem is JOBS! JOBS! JOBS! We need to focus on keeping this economy growing so that the jobs growth will move along quicker than it is. Until we do this the deficit ain't gonna matter, shouldn't be such the focus with Righties. Gotta keep this economy moving forward, you know, not backwards. This is the approach that was taken back in 1993. Raising taxes along with thoughtful spending reforms moved this country forward and by 1999 we were seeing low inflation, record job growth, low unemployment rates. People were happy. People were spending money, because they had a job and had excess funds that they could put back into the economy.
For Paul S,NY NY and @ NoMoreTax Regarding:
The Weekly Standard souece Wikipedia,
The Weekly Standard is an American neoconservative[2][3][4][5] opinion magazine[6] published 48 times per year. Its founding publisher, News Corporation, debuted the title September 18, 1995. Currently edited by founder William Kristol and Fred Barnes, the Standard has been described as a "redoubt of neoconservatism" and as "the neo-con bible".[7][8]
Sorry NoMoreTax I want info like that from a less partisan source!
Also, it's not reporting numbers as fact. It's just quoting Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL), ranking minority member of the Senate Budget Committee. It's the opinion of one Republican ("According to the minority side of the Senate Budget Committee...")
The Republican party just doesn't get it, The president put his option down. Now let the cowards running the republican party come together and see what the President will sign. The president just won polls on his side. I'm more worried that the President will cave in like he did in 2011. This would be the travesty.
Let's see--the President proposes the plan that he ran on and won with. The GOP answers with a vague rehash of rhetoric and no details. So now it is the President's obligation to come up with a plan that will pass both houses of Congress? Sorry, Mr. Boehner---it is Congress' duty to come up with acceptable legislation or the GOP will take the responsibility for us going over the fiscal cliff. Which I hope we do.
The President gives NO DETAILS of spending cuts ! Where are they ?
Jim, the house controls the purse strings...show me the money jim. when are THEY going to get serious about deficit reduction?
Put up or shut up time for you Bryan .... show me the details of the proposed Obama spending reductions ! So far, no libbie has been able.
JIM, have you seen where or what cuts the GOP wants to make in "entitlements"? What loopholes they're willing to close? Have you seen any actual numbers or titles? No?
What is their job agian, besides crying foul and saying "no" to everything? I forget.
You may have noticed some economic difficulties across the country in recent years among family, friends, neighbors, colleagues. One sector is doing quite nicely, however, under Barack Hussein Obama.
In the 1,420 days since he took the oath of office, the federal government has daily hired on average 101 new employees. Every day. Seven days a week. All 202 weeks. That makes 143,000 more federal workers than when Obama talked forever on that cold day in January of 2009.
Under Obama the total federal workforce has surpassed two million for the first time since the first Clinton term, now sitting about the 2.2 ,million level.
Now comes a new poll revealing that Americans know what's going on. A majority of Americans believes government workers make more money than private sector workers, according to the new Rasmussen Reports poll. Sixty-one percent of private sector workers believe that.
Surprisingly, Republicans, independents and Democrats are united in agreement that government employees have it better than private sector workers although, predictably, Dems are slightly less sure.
"The federal workforce has become an elite island of secure and high-paid workers, separated from the ocean of average American workers competing in the global economy," according to a report this year by the Cato Institute.
That report found the average civilian federal government worker collected just under $84,000 a year in taxpayer money, about $32,000 more than the average private sector worker. That's a total federal worker package of about $236 billion a year.
In his public outbursts during the alleged fiscal cliff negotiations, Obama has suggested that talks over federal spending cuts come later after his immediate favored tax increases.
Obama has frozen the inflated federal salaries into next spring, while the Republican platform in this fall's campaign called for a 10% reduction in the federal labor force through attrition. The reelected Obama seems unlikely to go along with that idea.
Congressional Republicans have also called for firing the thousands of federal employees who are behind in their income taxes but still somehow remain on the public payroll.
The latest IRS report said, for instance, that 36 of Obama's White House aides had $833,000 in unpaid back taxes.
According to Rasmussen, two out of three Americans are sure that company employees work harder than their lazy lay-about government counterparts. Only five percent think it's the other way around; they may belong to street repair crews (see photo above).
Even a plurality (48%) of government employees admit their private industry counterparts do work harder.
Read More At IBD: #ixzz2ElgnZeik
The priate industry let their standards go down, next Federal workers have not had a raise in quite some time, next in the defense industry federal workers make less than their private sector counter parts. Next, federal workers make less if you discount the years it took them to get where they are. Next, federal workers in high cost of living areas make more than the counter part in lower cost of liing areas. It is hard to look at this private vs federal and use salary as the divide. Compare them side by side and the numbers wont look to great for the federal worker.
This is a sign Speaker Boehner doesn't have the votes. House Republicans would rather send the economy off the fiscal cliff.
Notice that Republicans have spent 2 years talking about closing tax loop holes, but have not once mentioned a single one they would close. That because the only thing Republicans care about is Norquist. They bow before their false god known as Norquist. They signed their soul to Norquist and now Norquist tells them to destroy America.
That is the real pickle for the republican'ts....taxes will go up for EVERYONE.
Plus the Defense budget will be halved.
Can you say Flush the TeaBaggers in 2014 midterms?
I think when push comes to shove, enough Congressmen will come over to the Dem side of the vote! I have heard there are already several who are ditching the Grover Norquist 20 yr old pledge and many new congressmen refused to sign it! It is one sided and outdated and who the hell does Grover Norquist think he is anyways? He is not even a politician! Just another wealthy lobbyist! Tell him where to shove his pledge and save America congressmen! It's not to late! Make it a joyful Christmas for everyone!
Norquist was also involved with some of the Abramoff crooked deals. He gets money for his anti tax agenda, He is not just doing it because he is such a good idealist, more like a crooked scumbag!
Whow, he was so happy to take the gravel from Speaker Pelosi. Wonder does he care to give it back. He has been the worst Speaker I have seen. Here is a tip for John Boy, suck it up and give and move on. Either way you are gone son.
Only liberals drool over a Speaker who has the audacity to say "You'll have to pass the bill to see what's in it". Leadership does not mean forcing through legislation that no one had read. That is merely brazen arrogance blended with stupidity for all those who voted while ignorant of what they voted for.
And this just in. Further "analysis" of the ACA shows that beginning in 2014, employers will be required to pay $63 per year for three years per employee to help avert extra costs incurred by insurance companies to cover preexisting conditions. And we weren't going to have to pay for someone elses coverage. Guess we should have read it before we passed it...........oh wait...........it's all good. Obama pushed it through as the greatest thing since sliced bread.
The Gateway Bull - yeah and this "speaker" has a signed oath to Grover Norquist. At what point do we take Grover and all of his minions, try them, and hustle them off to GITMO for treason - for LIFE?
Of course, Nancy Pelosi never said that. She simply stated (correctly, as it turned out), that the American people would see what was in the ACA after the "fog of controversy" lifted. Nobody really thinks the House voted on a bill they had not read.
Talking hand, his plan is much better than the one the repubs never proposed! They are always long on lies and short on action.
Clotho
YES SHE DID!!
But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/n/nancy_pelosi.html
We Democrats like to talk about how President Clinton produced a surplus and how George Bush created deficits because of his tax cuts. Of course one of the reasons for the Clinton surplus was that there were more taxpayers all paying higher rates. So I agree with Howard Dean when he says let's go back to the Clinton rates and back to surpluses.
Clinton was part of the problem. He signed the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act (GLB), also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 which allowed the banks and financial institutions the ability to give sub-prime loans.
He also signed NAFTA that allow all of the companies to leave the US and go to Mexico for cheap labor.
Yeah, he did sign and he is accountable for that. He didn't draft it or push it thru committee and the "Contract with America " folks are responsible for that.
I'm with you on that one Lee, and I'm not a Democrat!
Boner is a moron.
Let's see...Obama has been saying for four years that tax rates on the wealthy are going to go up.
When confronted with this plan Boner was 'flabbergasted'.
Huh?
Closing loopholes is a ruse....the wealthy will find ways to hide money.
I say take the tax rates up to the Reagan years....50%....that should bring in some revenue.
Thats right 50% federal and 20% state and watch the money go deeper in the ground you will get less than you are getting now. People that are envious of rich people just make me sick either they are to lazy to put in the hours or to stupid to make it on their own
You may not be blind but you cant see. See that the rich no matter how are what they make their money. Are being taced at alower rate than the working class. Damn the peanuts that the under paid get back at the end of the year. Stop the get rich quik off of the work persons back. If he or she cares to pay from their pocket thats different.
open,
What really makes me sick is the greed that is displayed in those that have benefited the most from America's free market refusing to pay their fair share.
Example: Mittens, 6% on 20 MILLION!
Gee wasn't that money taxed at a higher rate when he made it? So you just want to continue to tax these people out of existence except for your favorite democrats of course. Do any of you think for one minute that these people with all this money need to invest in anything they could live off their saving and watch your 401 tank (that is if you even work) You wait and watch the stock market plunge when this filthy piece of crap in the white house gets his way. You know if you hate rich people so much you could always move to a socialist country and live there instead of trying to convert this country to one. and By the way he didn't pay 6% on anything if you are going to lie at least make it believable. He paid between 13 to 14% I paid 9%
openminded266 - when people like yout talk about people being envious of the rich; being lazy; it shows how uneducated and just totally ignorant you are. Try to find out what is really going on and join the real world. You just come across as the moron you clearly are!
Open minded??? LOL! Ah when I pay 30% on my middle class salary and Robme, Kochs, etc. pays less than 15% on their millions, something is obviously unfair and the laws need to be changed. They should be paying a higher rate than me, not one less than 50% of mine! What is fair about a billion dollar a year hedge fund manager ablw ro claim his pay as carried interest and get a 15% capitol gains rate??
Do not give into those Tax and Spend Democrats. They lie about every cut they say they are going to make. That just like this big deal Obama has He will give us 800 billion over ten years but want another 800 billion stimulus this year Where is the big cuts. Smoke and mirrors from the Democrats that's all you ever get.
Talk about lying, your user name is a lie! You are obviously a GOP, the masters of lies that they even believe themselves even when they are outnumbered in polls of being wrong! They will not admit it! Your comdemnation of the Democrates is not openminded at all! Liar!
GOP'ers spend money too.
What difference does party make sharon? Either way they are BOTH a bunch of liars. That is the true hypocrisy of them all.
Boehner, the president get serious??? He already has it is you that is not serious.
See this is what happens when business men become involved in politics, they try to help their business friends. Not saying businesses don't need help.
So who is to blame? There's plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn't fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn't do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility ... with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here's a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:
•The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.
•Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.
•Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.
•Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.
•The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.
•Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.
•Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.
•Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.
•The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.
•An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.
•Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.
The U.S. economy is enormously complicated. Screwing it up takes a great deal of cooperation. Claiming that a single piece of legislation was responsible for (or could have averted) the crisis is just political grandstanding. We have no advice to offer on how best to solve the financial crisis. But these sorts of partisan caricatures can only make the task more difficult.
You forgot the two wars and lower taxes!
Two wars approved by Congress ?
Most spending is approved by Congress. Your point?
My point is you libbies always rattle on about two wars .... not on the books. Congress approved both wars, and as you just indicated (thank you) most spending is approved by Congress !
Blaming in on the Bush administration just fell apart !! Thank you again !!!
No, Jim, putting blame on Dubya didn't fall apart. He sent us into two wars with no plan whatsoever on how to pay for them. The fact that Congress voted on the war efforts doesn't mean that Dubya was absolved of responsibility on the payment end. Presidents propose a budget every year - where was Dubya's plan in any subsequent year to pay for those wars? Then he doubled down and enacted tax cuts - all the while committing trillions of dollars into those two wars. The only semi-decent part was that the tax cuts for the wealthy, which squandered the surplus left by the Clinton administration, were always intended to be T-E-M-P-O-R-A-R-Y. But now we have the silly teapubs over the last few years refusing to let the TEMPORARY cuts expire as they were always intended to do. And they waste time bitching and moaning over the ACA - modeled after the wonderful plan enacted by their standard bearer, Mitts - instead of bringing even a single JOBS bill to a vote in the House.
The ranks of the poor are expanding, the middle class is struggling to survive, and the rich are laughing all the way to the bank.
Hey Boner...
I think Obama is serious enough that he will beat you over the head repeatedly with the Sequester Club until capitulation.
Mr. Boehner will be on the employment line in a couple of years. We know how he will spend his food stamps, on bourbon and cigarettes. Guess he will get a free phone also.
and he is still p**** that there is a tax on tanning salons...maybe part of the problem is that he want that tax cut!
This is the same stunt that Boehner pulled with the Affordable Care Act. Whatever Obama proposed, Boehner just kept responding, "No. Compromise some more." Finally, after a year had passed, Boehner said, "No. Start over." That's what he's pulling now.
Time to let the Republican Party throw us off The Cliff. We will recover from that. The Republican Party will not. Good riddance.
We already know where the President wants to cut spending! The defense dept, loopholes for the rich, fraud in Medicare and ending the war in Afghanistan, that is costing us billions and corporate subsidies! The GOP is being vague because they know they have an unpopular plan! They want to slash medicare, medicaid, foodstamps and repeal Obamacare to (in their minds) cut spending! They are all about the rich and doing what they want! That is not going to improve the economic growth of this country!! As President Obama has stated it's all about growth from the middle! That is 98% of us and we will be damned if we let the GOP have their way for a lousy 2%, some of which have even stated they don't need the tax cuts! So, it would be a drop in the bucket for them! If we go over the fiscal cliff it will we be a lot more taxes for everyone including the rich but they can handle it, we can't!
Bull$hit ! As soon as you say "We already know ........ yadda, yadda, yadda" you lost all credibility ! Your rant is an emotional response with nothing concrete.
"SHOW ME THE MONEY !" Show me the Obama plan for reduced expenditures.
I fall into that 98% and I would rather see all the taxes go up and see the true cuts that will have to be made other than the lies and Bull S hit that come from this president. When are you people going to look at the debt and see that we are getting closer to Greece everyday all you can do is hold out your hand for your next free handout from King Obama
openmind Where do I go to sign up for all the free handouts you guys keep talking about?
Just come on down to any federal building in any large city and get in line with all the others looking for their Obama money and if you are an illegal you can get even more
openmind Do you believe the $hit you post? openmind my a$$
openmind I was at a federal building this morning and there was a line but it sure wasn't for any of the Obama money you are talking about.
Sharon, I'll just cherry pick one point. ".. fraud in Medicare.." He promises savings from decreasing Medicare payouts. The problem is, Congress over the past 5 years have been unable to do this, each year passing the "Doc Fix" to keep reimbursements at current levels.
If you look at the impact of going over the fiscal cliff, one is a 30% decrease in Medicare reimbursements, all because of the Doc Fix. So, the President is promising MORE savings from Medicare? Does he smell what he's shoveling?
the GOP continually manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. From Akin to Mourdock, those 'safe' bets continue to plague the GOP. The Boner knows that if he does nothing, the GOP gets the blame for taxes going up on Jan 1. If the Dems retroactively pass extensions then, the Dems get the credit. If the GOP caves on the tax rate issue now, the Dems get the credit. Then move on to the debt ceiling. Corker says the GOP has more leverage and will do the same thing they did last year, demand concessions in return for raising the debt ceiling. We all know how successful that was. If Obama does not play along, the government defaults and the GOP gets the blame. If the GOP really were smart, they would go along with all the requests by the Dems. They claim that Obama "owns" the economy, but they have blocked all his policies and attempts for growth. It will only be when they give Obama the reins that he will truly "own" the economy.
You block "financial stupidity". Republicans have no need to give Obama a charge card with no limits !
Gee, Woodbutcher....If the Dems were smart, they'd go along with the Republicans demands for spending cuts.
Obama is too busy demonizing the people who make more than 250k, portraying them as the Evil Sheriff of Nottingham that Obama Hood wants to steal money from and give it to the poor. Why does Obama have such hatred of successful people? I thought that was the American way..succeed and get rewarded. Why not start at taxing people who earn $50k a year? That's "rich" to me. Maybe stick a surcharge on people who have more than 1 car per household, or more than 2 bedrooms/1 bath in their home? That's "middle class" isn't it? Class warfare and the masses are eating it up. "Obama the Divider"....and he's damn good at it, apparently.
Jim-1455434, I don't know if you are aware of this but the President has already gotten the defecit down a couple of trillion since being in office! Granted, it's"a drop in the bucket" but it's also a step in the right direction! The President is smart, he knows we have to have debt reduction as well as spending and has offered "a balanced approach" that would be easier on everyone except the very wealthy! The GOP are the ones who poo-pooed that idea because they want to enforce deep cuts in what they call "entitlement programs"! I paid in ss and medicare taxes for 46 years! That is my hard-earned money not an entitlement!! The GOP is so full of it there eyes should be brown! They are greedy, corrupt liars and that is what lost them the election! We 98% may not be rich but we aren't as stupid as they think we are either! Can't wait till we can get those ignorant idiots out of office in 2014! And Jim, if you don't believe the President has gotten the defecit down, google it!
shawrong61. You are just plain wrong ! The annual budget deficits under Obama are bigger every year than the deficit of any of his predecessors ! The total national debt now exceeds $16+ trillion and was at $10.8 trillion when Obama took office !
You post with great emotion and hatefulness, however, none of what you spout is fiscal reality ! If you believe what you say, I have some swampland in S.W. Florida that is a great buy for you ! I can get you in on the "ground floor" ... a little damp perhaps.
jim-1455434 - you apparently do not have any inkling why that is. Keep on voting in idiots like Bush and see the deficit grow. All of this mess is Bush's fault and the republican led congress.
Wait ...Please explain how the deficit grew more under Bush than Obama.....It is getting so old how you keep giving this awful President a pass...You keep blaming somebody else for Obamas short comings..Give it a break...you people sound sily
Mike
Bush and Cheney cut income by reducing taxes. Then they went into 2 wars. They did not pay for the wars they charged them with the intention of paying for them with Iraqi oil.
The equivalency would be if I decided to work less and take a huge pay cut. Using my credit rating from my previous income level I go out and buy a new home and a yacht. I charge it intending to pay for it with tomorrows Powerball winnings.
This action by B/C caused a huge deficit because they hid the cost of the wars. It also killed job growth. Companies, such as Anheuser-Busch, found that it was a great time to sell. They would keep more of the $, in their pockets, from the sale. Americans were selling because they could pocket more, foreigners were buying.
Also the tax cuts reduced the money available for Federal projects which also employed people and caused Federal layoffs. These factors created fewer people working which also reduced the amount of tax collected which in turn reduces the amount of money available for Federal projects which........
The reality is Tax breaks have NEVER created jobs they have cost us jobs.
Fortunately the economy IS getting better.
I lost a career at the end of 2005. When Bush was claiming the "economy was strong and getting stronger" we were in trouble. Finally we had to give up.
This year I have earned almost twice what I earned last year, last year was better than the year before.
Joregon... I never claimed the Bush/Cheney were not spending out of control(more in their second term than any thing else). This whole notion that everything is Bush's fault has to stop. I guess if you keep saying it enough ..people start believing it. Bush had a Democratic Senate and House his last two years. The Housing bubble(although I liked this President) is traced back to Clinton due to his Housing strategies and changes in the Community Reinvestment Act. To sit here and not think Obamas spending is out of control..means you are looking at the world through Rose Colored glasses. Obama has spent more than George...That is a fact..and he needs to stop his out of control spending..... That is my comment...
Joregon... The people have to make this President (like all other Presidents ) responsible for their decisions and quit blaming others...especially others that have not been in office for 4 years.
This whole George Bush thing is out of control....There are people on the left blaming Bengazie on George Bush...are you kidding me? How many passes do we give this Administration?
Mike you asked the question:
So I did, and now you twist it into a me blaming Bush thing.
Bush sent this economy into a unstoppable nose dive way before the Dem's came into any power.
Since Obama has been in office the GOP has been more focused into getting him out of power than in working with him, so the GOP certainly deserves the bulk of the blame. I'm not saying Obama isn't without fault but the GOP has done more to destroy this economy than Obama and all the Dem's combined.
Besides I see the economy improving, in 2007 companies were shutting down, or downsizing. This past year I have seen several local companies, some with National impact, expand.
I have spent most of the past 9 months working 50-70 hours a week. We have hired several new people and often needed to hire temp help. We are slammed this whole month, I worked over 50 hours last week. We have branches in several cities, working in a worldwide industry.
It may not be improving where you are but it is in many other places.
The sad thing is Boehner seems to still be focused on opposing the President instead of helping the citizens of this nation.
JOREGON...You did not explain how Bush did it with a majority House and Senate DEmocrat.
The Housing Bubble clearly goes back to Clinton. You are talking about personal Miocro experiences which are looked at in a slanted view by yourselF.
Do you have the latest data on jobs...I am really not sure because i am so tired of seeing this.Didnt I see that more people jumped out of the job market than jobs actually created(I am not sure but I can look it up)
The Recession that hit us was world wide....really ...what did Bush do ..that other Presidents did not do. He tried to reign in Fannie and Freddie many times to no avail thaanks to the Dems.
Joregon...Icant help it ..this blameing Bush thing is so old...Is the Democrats going to keeep convincing themselves this for the next 4 years also with their horrible Economic results.
I would like to debate you more on Economic Model but i think you and I have both had this debate before...Bottom line in a very fragile Economy...you dont take money out of the Economy in the form of taxes ...you find ways to put money back in.That is the Economics we were taught in school. The problem is the stimulus and spending by this President has created the 16 tril and climbing deficit...and he has no plans of stopping it. With Baby Boomers retiring we now have to figure a plan to cut entitilements so that they will be their for my children and GrandChildren
I did.
It happened before and he took this economy into a steep plunge no one could get it out of. It happened before the Dem's had any power.
In 2000 the R party held the senate
In 2001 the D party had a one vote majority because a R, Jim Jeffords switched parties in May from R to I.
That changed the very next election. The GOP gained control and technically had control all the way until 2009. However the Ind vote was more liberal.
So in the Senate there really was very little power that the D party could use because what majority they had was minuscule.
In the Senate historically the 107th congress was R
The 108th was R
The 109th was 49R 49D 2I it leaned Dem.
In the Congress the 107th was 229R 205D
The 108th 232R 201D
The 109th was 202R 233D This was the ONLY time the Democrat party had any kind of a majority and by then President Cheney and his puppet had pushed this nation over a cliff. You ever try to catch a boulder falling off a cliff?
http://www.bls.gov/ces/
It is not going up fast enough but it is going up.
The main problem is the deficit. We can make that manageable by eliminating the tax breaks for the wealthy.
We have always had a debt. In 1791 it was $75 Million quite a sum for that time especially considering how small the nation was.
When going back in History,,, The Bubble and the begining of our problems are again traced back to Clinton and his Housing strategy as well as his changes in the Reinvestment act to compliment his Housing strategy...2007---Is when the Economy started its problems...2007 is when Dems took power...Again the Housing Bubble was a major tipping point started by the Dems and Clinton. All that said I liked Clinton..It does not take away him playing a major role in where we are today.
I still do not see how getting rid of tax breaks even dents the deficit...The money proposed for Hurricane Sandy...is the same amount of money to be collected on the tax increases...
I see your numbers ( I knew you would have them.)..I was looking for the numbers of people that dropped out of the workforce. Do you have those?
I am sure we can be Arm Chair Quarter backs ...but I think it is pretty safe to say...that no matter who was President or in Power ...The Recession and collapse would have come. As much as I can point fingers at Clinton ... Neither Party did a thing to avert this situation....
Again this ..Its Bush's fault is getting really old.....
I also read your information on the majorities... If you have majority ..you are accounted for.
The DEMS have held majority now for 6 years..now going on 8. 2 of those years ...A super majority...
I would think ..somewhere along the line they neeed to step and be accounted for...
Again ...I am not being sarcastic...their are people on the LEFT trying to blame Bush for Bengazie...I am serious...
I know the company I work at was hemorrhaging money in 2004 and 2005. We shut our doors in 2005. When Bush gave his, "The Economy is strong and getting stronger" speech, the economy was already weak and getting weaker. That was 2004 and I was wondering what planet he was on.
I don't think you can blame the housing issue on either party, both are guilty.
Actually I think the economy really began it's problems with Enron in 2001. It might seem like a small issue but those good ol' boys from Texas cause energy costs to climb.
Followed shortly after by Bush reducing the National income with the Taxbreaks then Charging 2 wars, with the idea Iraqi Oil would pay for them. Obama inherited Bush's war debt because they hid the cost.
The equivalency would be if I decided to reduce my income then went out and bought a home on Malibu Beach and a new Yacht using my good credit from my previous income level. Don't worry I'll pay for it when I win the Lottery the next time it gets to $500 Million. When I die before that happens my kids are stuck with the bill.
Won't hurt. The rich will still spend. The tax won't stop that.
The money needs to be used. Government projects create jobs. Roads, Bridges, buildings, etc require funds that go to pay workers. Those workers pay taxes which also goes into the fund let alone puts people back to work.
I have to head to work here is a short graph that might explain it better.
http://www.offthechartsblog.org/what%E2%80%99s-driving-projected-debt/
I think the statement "wont hurt the rich still spend " I guess that is where I am concerned. The people making 250,00-to maybe $500,000 will definitly change their habits of spending. I do agree ..Once you get to certain point ....Income taxes do not change lifestyles... They just hire people to avoid them.
I dont believe the two wars is what has jacked up all the spending.(yes it has played a part)..It has a lot to do with failed policies and The President not knowing how to manage the money into the correct areas where it needed to be spent. Ex ...the Stimulus...A lot of that money never got to where it was suppose to go..Some money went into producing Over seas jobs for other countries and other money was corupted from the system.
As for the Housing Bubble...Correct me if i am wrong but this is how I understand it ...
Clintons Housing strategy was to promote and increase home ownership among the poor(read between the lines ; minorities. Clinton contended that high levels of home ownership would yield less violent crime,better school performance,stronger ethnic communities,and more jobs. This sounds great on the surface . Who wouldnt want this? But what he really wanted to do was buy minority votes , especially in the highly contested areas of the country.Lets face facts ...the Republicans would have done the same if they could.Clinton was buying Power. The banks and their reasonable vetting were at direct odds with promoting the American Dream in such a reckless manner. Clinton then turned to HUD to enforce penalties(in the millions) to banks that denied loans to minorities. Often times it cost less to grant the loan than it was to fight it out in court..
He also made changes to the Community Reinvestment Act, in which banks received ratings. Banks Received favorable ratings based on the amount of lending they did in low income(minority)neighborhoods. These CRA ratings were necessary for bank regulators to approve mergers,expansions, and new branch openings.
Then pressure was applied to Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, to help expand mortgage loans among low and moderate earners, and introduced new rules to permit and ease securitization of subprime loans. This was first launched with Bear Stearns in 1997.
I will be honest .. I only heard this next part through the years and on other News Shows....That the Bush Administration tried many times to reign in Fannie and Freddie but were rebuffed by the Democrats.
You can google the REINVESTMENT ACT and it will pretty much validate what I put into the post.
Now do I think everything is Clintons fault? Absolutly not... But i do think he had a big hand in this thing. I think Bush's spending was out of control as I do Obama.
I hope you can see why I am getting tired of hearing everything is Bush's fault... I didnt even vote for him ...but I am tired of hearing it.
They really won't. One reason why is those people are the ones most interested in showing off. The ultra wealthy are past that. It is those that have "made it" that want to show the world they have made it.
Another reason is they have established a way of life that they are comfortable in. It might hurt a bit more but they are still going to buy fine wines and go out to eat.
They will still need the newest and latest because they want to be the Jones's that everyone is trying to keep up with.
They will be the ones buying the Tesla because they want to show the world how Green they are.
They won't give up their tennis clubs or their country clubs because it is called "networking".
A good example would be a real-estate agent that is in huge debt (a lot of them) because they feel they need to look successful to get clients. They buy houses they can't afford and flashy cars because clients want someone that is successful.
Studies have shown anything over $75,000 a year is fluff. Most people find that at $75,000 they are financially secure.
As far as the housing bubble goes I believe it is much too complicated to lay it on one person, party, or cause.
For instance one of the factors was a world wide housing bubble and the US can't be blamed for that.
In my opinion one of the most significant factors was fraud. Mortgage loan fraud increased by 1,411 percent between 1997 and 2005. http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/rp/reports/pdf/MortgageLoanFraud.pdf
While you want to blame Clinton for increasing home ownership among the poor, it was Bush that pushed for minority home ownership:
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020617-2.html
And he continues:
Like I said I don't think any one person, group, or policy is responsible for the problem as there is more than enough blame to throw around.
Actually what Bush did is establish $440 Billion of Fannie and Freddie money to NeighborWorks America:
You may be tired of hearing about Bush being the cause of our problems but when people blame Obama for Bush's incompetence you will continue to hear it.
Again JoREGON...Your economic model only makes sense to you... On a personel side yes ..I have met those people...the Jonse"s ...as an agregate...it does not hold water....Weather you see it or not ...those results as a model are the ones Economist work with.
Again ...I never once said that Clinton was the sole reason for the bubble ..but like I did say ...he certainly had a hand in it.......I am sure you can agree with me there... Like I said ...I am very tired of hearing everything is Bush's fault...
Since ...you did your homework ... I will get off my lazy a@s and try to find the information regarding his attempts to reign in Fannie and Freddie
I have to get ready for work again, but here is just one report on thet $70,000 study.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628,00.html
Taxing someone slightly more that is making $250,000 is really not going to impact their lives that much. Sure they may not go out and buy that new villa in Italy, but for the things that impact the US economy it has very little effect.
No one is talking about going back to the 90% tax rate of the Eisenhower years.