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Subscribe to RSSPresident Barack Obama has no public events planned for Tuesday and not many planned for the remainder of the week. Many at the White House and in Congress believe, the less anyone campaigns publicly, the better their chances at striking a deal. The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd reports.
If Obama and Boehner are able to strike a deal, it will more than likely be a fragile one… Labor battle in Michigan: right to work and right to protest… Labor takes another punch… But will it be another Pyrrhic victory for the GOP (at least in the short run)?... Will the RNC’s autopsy satisfy conservatives who are charging that establishment GOPers are simply making money off the party, win or lose?... Nikki Haley to hold news conference at noon ET (but isn’t expected to announce appointment)… And meet Sean Patrick Maloney.
Speaker of the House John Boehner provides an update on the fiscal cliff negotiations, placing pressure on the White House to reveal how they intend to compromise with House Republicans on spending cuts.
*** A fragile deal? While there’s some optimism that President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner can strike a deal to avert the looming tax hikes and spending cuts -- no news is good news, after all – it’s important to point out how fragile any deal would likely be. If there will be serious tax and entitlement reform, you’ll have triggers to enforce them. So essentially, you’re solving this so-called fiscal cliff by creating new ones. Here are the reasons for optimism: Obama and Boehner met on Sunday; the president’s public schedule is mostly free today (suggesting that he’s busy working on this matter); and more and more Republicans are coming around to the idea that they’re probably going to have to cave on tax rates. But here’s the pessimism: raising the debt ceiling. We’re hearing that this issue might be the biggest obstacle right now. More than taxes or entitlements, that issue appears to be the one that GOP leaders might have the hardest time convincing the rank-and-file to hand over to the Obama White House and Democrats in any kind of deal. And the White House may not realize how important it is for Boehner to stick to his guns on this.
Bill Pugliano / Getty Images
President Barack Obama speaks about the economy at the Daimler Detroit Diesel engine plant Dec. 10, 2012 in Redford, Mi.
*** Right to work and right to protest: As NBC’s Mike O’Brien reported yesterday, “Republicans stand on the cusp of delivering a major blow to organized labor, as they prepare to vote Tuesday on legislation to make Michigan – a state linked to unions in the public conscious – a ‘right to work’ state.” And Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder (R) has said he would sign the legislation into law. The protests have already begun, the Detroit News adds. “Union members turned out early in the morning, dead set on protesting the controversial legislation… At 5 a.m. Tuesday, Michigan Laborers started to unload their supplies for the day. The union came prepared with tents and hand warmers to withstand the chilly 22-degree weather.” But it is worth noting a couple of reasons why labor and Democrats are losing this fight, even in Michigan. For one thing, the Democratic Party isn’t united on this issue; after all, there are several prominent Democratic politicians (Virginia’s Mark Warner and Tim Kaine come immediately to mind) who hail from right-to-work states. Also, labor lost the framing of this national debate. Despite the merits of compulsory union dues and membership -- if you’re going to receive the benefits from a collective-bargaining agreement, you’ve got to pay the dues -- Republicans and the businesses largely have succeeded in making this about choice.
*** Labor takes another punch: Even though the last few decades generally haven’t been kind to America’s labor movement -- with union participation rates declining -- it still has remained a political force. The unions’ money and ground efforts matter. So, too, do their endorsements in Democratic primaries. But if there’s one theme to the labor battles we’ve seen over the past two years, with the latest one taking place in Michigan, it’s that Republican politicians have been more than willing to punch organized labor in the face, even in its own backyard. Yes, unions have been able to hit back. In 2011, they overturned Ohio’s anti-collective-bargaining effort. And they also were able to recall a handful of GOP state senators in Wisconsin. But they bet big on trying to oust Gov. Scott Walker (R) from office, and they lost.
*** Pyrrhic victories? All that said, it is worth noting that the anti-union efforts and other aggressive actions by the 2010 class of Republican governors -- Florida’s Rick Scott, Ohio’s John Kasich, Wisconsin’s Scott Walker -- have been Pyrrhic victories, at least in the short term. For starters, Obama again won in all of these states in 2012, proving that weakening labor in these states didn’t hurt the Democratic incumbent. Also consider that Kasich and Scott, in particular, aren’t sure bets for re-election in 2014. In fact, while a new Quinnipiac poll shows Kasich’s approval rating to be above water for the first time since taking office, a plurality of voters say he doesn’t deserve a second term in office. But for labor, there’s also no evidence they are going to be able to win this right-to-work battle -- or even future ones. How does labor regroup? Does it decide to concede on things like right-to-work in favor of collective bargaining?
*** Will the RNC’s autopsy satisfy conservatives? The Republican National Committee yesterday launched an effort -- dubbed the "Growth and Opportunity Project" -- to examine what worked and what didn't in the 2012 election. And five Republicans will chair the initiative: RNC member Henry Barbour of Mississippi, RNC member Zori Fonalledas of Puerto Rico, RNC member Glenn McCall of South Carolina, Florida political strategist (and Jeb Bush adviser) Sally Bradshaw, and former Bush 43 White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer. The question we have is whether this autopsy effort will satisfy conservatives who believe that establishment Republicans are simply making money off the GOP, win or lose. As Breitbart columnist Michael Patrick Leahy recently wrote, “Federal Election Commission reports filed by the Republican National Committee on Thursday show that one-third of the $59.3 million it spent directly with vendors in the last five weeks of the election was paid to one telemarketing firm, FLS Connect, LLC,” which just happens to be co-founded by the RNC’s current chief of staff. Prominent conservative Erick Erickson has made a similar charge. And then there’s question whether these five chairs -- Barbour, Fonalledas, Bradshaw, McCall, Fleischer -- are too establishment. After all, there isn’t a single person from the conservative grassroots here. Say what you want about Howard Dean and the DNC from 2005-2008, but he was willing to break china to fix things. Can the same be said of the current RNC?
*** Haley to hold news conference: South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley (R) is holding a news conference at noon ET in North Charleston, SC. Per NBC’s Ali Weinberg, Haley isn’t expected to announce her appointment to fill Sen. Jim DeMint’s Senate seat. But yesterday, the governor said she WILL NOT appoint a placeholder, saying: "I believe South Carolina will be best served by a U.S. senator who will work hard day in and day out, and put him or herself before the voters at the soonest possible time," Haley said in a statement. "Accordingly, I reject the option of a 'placeholder.'"
*** Meet Sean Patrick Maloney: NBC’s Carrie Dann has profiled 10 new members to watch in the next Congress. Today’s profile: Sean Patrick Maloney (D-NY). “A former senior adviser in President Bill Clinton's administration, Sean Patrick Maloney also worked as a staffer for New York governors Eliot Spitzer and David Paterson before mounting his own political run. Maloney unseated Republican Rep. Nan Hayworth in a New York's redrawn 18th District. The first openly gay New York congressman, Maloney and his partner Randy Florke have three adopted children together. Maloney once told New York Magazine that his hero is fictional lawyer Atticus Finch and came in third in New York's 2006 Democratic primary for attorney general. In addition to his career as a behind-the-scenes political aide, Maloney also made a name at two prestigious New York law firms. He was a partner at Kirkland & Ellis LLP before moving to Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP.”
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William "Willie" Sutton (June 30, 1901 - November 2, 1980) was a prolific U.S. bank robber. During his forty year criminal career he stole an estimated $2 million, and eventually spent more than half his adult life in prison.
Sutton is famously (and probably falsely) known for answering a reporter, Mitch Ohnstad, who asked why he robbed banks by saying, "because that's where the money is." The quote formed the basis of Sutton's law
Nevertheless, the legend has resulted in the "Willie Sutton rule," used in activity-based costing (ABC) of management accounting. The law stipulates that ABC should be applied "where the money is," meaning where the highest costs are incurred, and thus the highest potential of over-all cost reduction is.[5]
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Willie was a handsome dapper gentlemanly fellow with a fine sense of humor. Seems like he was prolific in more ways than one. Upon close examination apparently he left a bunch of descendents all over the United States. It also seems like they learned that principal of going to “where the money is” at Grandpa’s knee. While old Willie was at least up front about the whole deal and used a gun to rob folks his descendents apparently aren’t willing to do that jail thing so they have applied themselves to robbing folks kind of quiet like so they don’t have to do the time like Grandpa did.
They saw a large pool of money in all our retirement accounts so they backed up an armored truck to the bank and disguised as bank guards they made off with it and giggled at the hideout because nobody got caught.
They saw a large pool of money in our houses and places of business. So disguised as brokers and Re-Fi agents they convinced everybody to turn all that equity to cash and backed the truck up and eased all that out the back door. Nobody has figured out where they hid that yet and their still down at the hideout congratulating each other as to how smart they are.
They saw a bunch of industry and manufacturing companies with fine folks that went to work in them every day. They all paid their taxes and built fine communities across the country and created a large pool of wealth. So they talked the police into changing the rules for them and to actually assist them in the robbery so that they could all go vacation in Cabo and Belize and other such like places.
So now after having gotten away with the largest heist in the history of the World old Willie’s descendent are slipping some of the stash back into the process so they can maneuver the authorities into another robbery. See they managed to get the rules changed so they can do it anonymously from that undisclosed hideout.
Looking out over the national landscape it wouldn’t seem that there are any pools of money left that are big enough to interest Willie’s modern gang. Last one left is that Social Security Trust Fund. Two and a half trillion dollars ought to set them up just right. This time instead of wearing disguises and backing up the armored truck they are going to be a little more bold. They think they can convince us to just give it to them and thank them for the privilege of the contributing to the crime.
As far as that accounting principal they don’t want you to think about that one to much either. You see if folks start realizing that old Willie’s descendents are the ones with all the money then we might figure out that that’s where we’re going to have to go back to come up with some operating capital to move ourselves forward. That may interfere with them using their ill gotten gains to maintain themselves and the hideout in the style to which they’ve become accustomed to.
Well, it looks like the 53% of Americans that actually pay income taxes made a bundle in multibillion-dollar profits on the bailouts of the Wall Street banks and insurance giant AIG. The Wall St banks have paid back 100% of the money they got plus billions in profits. According to the Politico article below, the Treasury is about to sell the last part of its stake in AIG at about a $5.2 billion profit. And the Treasury could make even more profits by exercising warrants and selling the stock. The Fed has already made a profit on AIG of $17.7 billion which will ultimately be returned to the Treasury.
So, the only bailouts where the 53% of Americans who actually pay income taxes are big-time LOSERS are Barry’s bailouts of the United Auto Workers union and the two love children of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, Fannie and Freddie. I know that lefty liberals would like to spin it as Barry bailing out GM and Chrysler. But nothing could be further from the truth. The owners (stockholders) and creditors (bondholders) were told by Barry “You’ll get NOTHING, and like it.” The only ones benefitting from the bailout money given to the successors of GM and Chrysler were the UAW workers. New GM/Chrysler will likely cost American income taxpayers about $20 billion, and an August 2012 NYT article estimated American income taxpayer losses on Fannie and Freddie at $147 billion.
Excerpts from Politico:
Treasury selling final AIG shares
By: Patrick Reis and Zachary Warmbrodt
December 11, 2012 07:31 AM EST
The Treasury Department is selling its final shares of American International Group Inc., ending taxpayer ownership of the insurance giant and winding down one of the most contentious chapters of the 2008 financial crisis.
Treasury said Monday it plans to soon sell its final 234.2 million shares of AIG. A price for the shares has not been reached, but it is likely to be about $33.36 per share — AIG’s closing price Monday on the New York Stock Exchange.
Government aid was continually pumped into the company through March, 2009, at which point the Federal Reserve and Treasury had committed a joint $182.3 billion to the firm. Treasury at its height owned 1.65 billion shares — 92 percent of the company.
But after the final stock sale, AIG will be taxpayer-fund free, and the federal government will walk away with a multibillion-dollar profit.
To date, the Fed has netted $17.7 billion in profit from its AIG investments. Treasury remains $2.6 billion in the hole, but is expected to recover far more of that with its final stock sale. At Monday’s closing price on the New York Stock Exchange, Treasury’s remaining holdings are worth more than $7.8 billion.
After the sale, Treasury said it will continue to hold rights to purchase AIG stock through agreements called warrants.
If there is anything that serves as a line of demarcation line between the political left and the political right, it is the value placed on education. Education is far more than what we learn in the formal halls of schoolrooms or universities. It's lessons we learn in our day-to-day existence. It includes the lessons others have learned. Ignoring those lessons or explaining life with an ideology is the hallmark of the right. Examining and questioning those lessons is the hallmark of the left.
Most of us find mathematics to be a challenge. We try to grasp secants and cosecants, independent and dependent variables, formulae, and coefficients. Few of us do it well, but if we can grasp arithmetic, we'll manage. The hard sciences, in the main, share that "wow, this stuff is hard" aspect. It's not advisable, but certainly understandable, that we avoid these subjects.
On the other hand, the softer stuff, History, Geography, Civics and the like are not all that hard. Yet, in some respects they're every bit as important, perhaps even more important than the sciences. As George Santayana wrote, "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it."
We can't remember much of the past, there's millions of years of it. We have books for that. But, many of us can't even remember the recent past. An example? We have had a decade of tax cuts based on the notion that those cuts create jobs. In that decade, all statistical evidence refutes that notion. Yet, in the face of failure, the right wing continues to insist that cutting taxes on the richest among us will make our economy flourish - ideology. Indeed, there is evidence that taxing the richest actually stimulates the economy - fact.
About those nasty book things. They take us back beyond our memories. They tell us we fought to get our vote - not just people of color or women, most of us. When we became a nation, only free, white males, 21 or older, who owned property could vote. This incredibly valuable right is ignored by a huge portion of the populace and is under attack by a very vicious cohort of the right-wing.
Education is an ongoing process. We never stop learning, unless we make the decision to embrace ignorance - condemning ourselves to a never-ending Groundhog Day.
This is a fine day to mull over the idea of class warfare. It's nothing new. Tribal and class warfare didn't begin when the right-wing "discovered" it under the Obama administration. No, class warfare is just about as old as humankind. Fighting to move out of the lower class has always been resisted by the upper class, and it will always be so.
The right wing masters of projection would have us believe that class warfare is a product of the lower class. That's simply untrue. Try this little bit of history and resist the urge to slap the snot out of a right-wing knuckle-dragger the next time you hear the term "union thug". Understand that "right to work" really means the working class has been reduced to things. Meat machines with no rights. http://www.wyomingtalesandtrails.com/ludlow.html
Education is a very good thing.
As the godfather pointed out to his oldest son, a lawyer can steal more money with a briefcase than 100 men with guns.
Well, there you go, IR. It looks as though a rather substantial majority of the population has learned from the master criminals - the filthy rich.
You need to balance the budget? You go where the money is. You tax the rich. The irony is, we'll be using the same tax code to take back the money they have taken from the working class that actually created the wealth.
Those who benefit more from the system should pay more. When the fiscal health restored, the rich will again benefit more.
The government has just sold all shares - AIG bailout is officially over. The $150 billion price tag of bailout is equal to all the government help to the poor from 1990-2005. Government made $20 billion from the bailout. But AIG executives have given themselves large bonusses with taxpayers money throughout the process. So the rich have always benefited more.
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In any fiscal deal, the rich should pay A BIT more.
Mitt Romney had "binders full of women"---the rest of the GOP sees "pots of money" to raid for themselves and/or their corporate masters. I hope the Democrats don't fall for this "entitlement reform" nonsense that the GOP is selling.
So Boehner wants to resurrect the whole debt ceiling phony crises again.
Maybe he is hoping he will get it right this time?
Or he is still living in the summer of 2011?
IR
Deficit spending and the Federal Reserve is where the money is. It's called trickle down fiscal policy and trickle down monetary policy. Only, we all know about that whole trickle down scam by now.
The Right to Shut the Hell up
From the article above:
The Republican’s War on the Middle Class continues.
Michigan Republicans have purposely gagged the good People of the Wolverine State so that they can eventually put them in shackles.
From First Read yesterday:
Taking away American’s rights AND preventing American’s from voicing their opinions is the Tea Party Republican way.
Behind closed door legislating is how Republican’s do business; the business, of keeping Americans down, and oppressing the Middle Class.
Shutting up Americans and telling them they Ain’t worth squat, is what the Tea Party Republican are all about.
Republicans continue to push for Austerity Economic Policies here in America, even though Europe, Greece and other countries around the world are suffering immensely because of those policies.
Republicans want an America of cheap labor, no upward mobility, and no political power for the oppressed.
Two things could happen as a result of the Republican’s slave-labor policies.
Either the good people of Michigan will vote the bastards out in 2014 and reclaim their Inalienable Constitutional Rights as Americans, or, they will pack their bags and move to more constitutional friendly states.
Either way, Republicans will pay a heavy price in 2014 for their continued decimation of the American working class.
Salud
Don't the GOP dare to touch social security and medicare which the employees have earned. Corporate greed causes this recession which has led to lower contribution to the systems, plus the larger number of babyboomer retirement. But there is NO CRISIS facing social security and Medicare, two good government programs. Corporations are just jealous that government can run things so well. But corporations have to make profits, well it's capitalism - making profits by providing essential services is fine. But many corporate corruption often prove otherwise. Corporate greed caused the recession, but Republicans want to have a recovery on the backs of low-middle class people who have done nothing wrong.
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If the GOP refuses to compromise, voters will throw more out in November 2014.
"Over the river and off the cliff to Grandmothers house we go".
Will we be singing that on Jan 1st? Let's hope not. I think if both Parties should would leave our President and Mr. Boehner alone and let those two work out a realistic agreement. All the yelling and screaming, mashing of teeth and rolling on the floor "ain't" going to get the job done. Everybody just sit down,shut up, and let the "grown ups" get the job done.
Fiscal Cliff Deal or No Deal. No matter how fragile any deal may be between Speaker Boehner and President Obama, neither side will be completely happy with it. Compromise works that way--neither side can or should get everything it wants, successful governing requires give and take. Too bad republicans think it is only for democrats to give and they take. Let's hope the GOP had an awakening on Nov 6, an awakening to the reality that the majority of Americans do NOT agree with them...period.
Battleground Michigan. GOPers continue their anti-union and anti-women's rights efforts after campaigning on totally unrelated issues and promising not to even try passing Right to Work or anti-women legislation. Michigan republicans tried to sneek their latest anti-freedom legislation through in the dead of night hoping no one would notice--who needs committees or hearings or debate. Ahh, too bad GOPers forgot about the age of social media.
IR, nice post. The GOP, the Wall Street gurus, and big insurance who-ies would like nothing better than to get their greedy hands on Social Security and Medicare money. If nothing else, 2008, should have taught everyone a lesson--don't let that crowd anywhere near money currently in a safe place.
Another typical money whining post from the HAHAHA guy; you know Joe, you're tiresome. He ignores that the low income earners pay a much higher percentage of their earnings in sales, payroll and other taxes than the 53% even if they pay no federal income tax. A good percentage of millionaires, billionaires and big corporations pay ZERO income tax making millionaires part of the 47%.
Time to cut defense spending and close corporate tax loopholes which are corporate welfare - such government giveaways have not helped the economy and have not helped promote a sense of justice to all Americans.
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can you believe that the military has wasted more than $100 billion dollars on just one item - F-22s which have never seen action in real combat?
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Can you believe that one bailout to AIG ($150 billion) is equal to all the government help to the poor from 1990 to 2005. And AIG executives used the money to pay themselves large bonuses.
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RepubliCONs, where is your sense of justice?? fairness?
America's 4th Estate" The Carnival Barkers"(formerly known as the MSM),has been reduced to a Wing of the GOP!
They stayed Silent during both of President GW Bushes terms, but have renergized thier efforts to try & make President Barrack Obamas 2 terms the ScapeGoat, of All of Americas Ills.
They've conveintly forgotten 14 Years of GOP Policy in the House(1994-2006)to the detrement of History. They've conveintly forgotten President Obama adding 2 unpaid for Wars & Medicare Part D, to our Balance sheet, which President Bush, conveintly left Off the Books.
I could go On & On, but yall get the Picture.
America's 4th Estate is a POS! No doubt about it.
It's a good thing that that someone like Me is'nt running MSNBC & NBC, because the 1st thing i'd have done about 2 years ago, was give David Gregory & Chuck Todd, thier Walking papers, and put Rachel Maddow in charge of the Politics. She puts All of the Caranival Barkers to Shame!
You Betcha !
Occupy SoggyBottom!
Screw the left wing nuts. Let's go over the cliff.
I had a conversation with my accountant and we figured that going over the cliff might be the only way to get the spending cuts that this country needs. President Obama is still the top dog so he will get the blame. The tax increases won't be felt until April 2014 so they will more than likely get adjusted long before that. And all the spending cuts will automatically be put in play and will be very hard to reverse. Let's just sit back and enjoy the ride over the cliff.
I love the line when the fiscal health is restored. Just exactly who do you count on restoring our fiscal health? Democrats have no track record on fiscal issues, in fact it has been over 40 years since a Democrat controlled congress put forth a balanced federal budget. Clinton's balanced budgets came from a Republican controlled congress. There is nothing, absolutely nothing being proposed by Obama or anyone else in Washington that truly restores this nations fiscal health. With Obama on track to leave office after his second term having added more to our national debt then all previous presidents combined, there is no solution in sight. Obama will leave office with this nations debt exceeding 20 trillion.
This country has no hope of fiscal sanity from either party in Washington. They have proven time and time again that kicking the can and public perception is all that matters. Let someone else solve the problem, after they are gone and living lavishly off the perks and benefits they afford themselves for serving as little as one term. Nothing short of term limits for members of congress, a completely reformed tax code, and a balanced budget amendment will ever bring fiscal sanity back to Washington. They simply have no track record that should make anyone believe otherwise.
Eventually, reality can no longer be escaped or denied. Next time try reality first, GOPers.
We should be surprised at that?!! Isn't it just standard operating procedure for the GOP?
David W and Tomas, terrific posts. Lots of great thoughts here this morning, well, at least from liberal thinkers.
JH, wouldn't put much faith in your accountant; in fact, I'd find a new one. All those spending cuts done at once will put us back in recession because that is Austerity; we know how well that has worked for Europe--they are back in recession. Our deficit and debt is NOT the problem, heaven knows it wasn't according to the GOP during the Bush years. The problem is job creation, cutting spending drastically will result in more lost jobs. That's fact.
Shame on you RepubliCONs who have refused to compromise with the President...
But these RepubliCONs are in a very bad lose-lose situation - and the president is in a win-win:
If the RepubliCONs refuse to compromise, recession gets worse, voters blame RepubliCONs; GOPTP will lose more in November 2014.
if republiCONs compromise and raise taxes on the super-rich, these Gop-CONS will lose support among their core supporters, as Bush Sr. lost such support in 1992 election after he raised taxes in the wake of his 'read my lips no new taxes' pledge.
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Either way, republiCONS lose ... no matter how the deal comes out.
The Pig confuses compromise with giving in. Compromise takes both sides working on the issue, not one negotiating with themselves. Obama started the fiscal cliff negotiations with his list of demands. Obama said there can be no deal without my demands being met. So lets lose the talk about compromise, or any mention of leadership, this is nothing more then Chicago style street thugs politics. But even giving Obama what he wants solves nothing, but that doesn't seem to matter to liberals. People blame presidents for recessions not congress. Any backlash toward Republicans will last a month at best. But people will expect the president to solve it, and as such he will own it, and he knows it.
Shhh...don't say that too loudly. We have to let them save a little face. You know how pissy they get.
Call John Boehner's office
202 225-6205
Jam his phone lines.
I just called my Congress member's office.
Hey, Rick-3416939 @ #1.21
OK, the you RepubliCONs should give in...Guess who lost big only a month ago...losing ground in all 3 institutions - House, Senate, and the White House.
In any bargain, the losers should always cave in - that's the whole point of winning - the winners get to write history...and do most other things - at least winning an argument...over this fiscal cliff, for example.
So our President finally grew a pair? But after the election of course. What did he say when Wisconsin or Indiana went right to work? Nothing!. Maybe he should take a tour of what blacks and Democrats do to thier cities, ie Benton Harbor, Detroit, and could answer why do they destroy them? Isn't the destruction of city after city by Democrats more important than union rights?
Auntie Fascist - And politicians can steel more money than any lawyer..... What a disgrace this proud profession has become..... Mr President please Sequester Congress, do not allow the House nor Senate to leave for any reason until this major issue is resolved..... No going home Tonight, Tomorrow Night, This Weekend, or for the Holidays until you finally get your act's together.....
Does this mean the deal is ITALIAN?
LOL, Can't wait for TBS' 24 hours of A Christmas Story!
IR, I reckon you 'bout said all there is to say on the topic. I still like the term Robber Barons; but no matter how they dress it up,...they are the thieves of the middle class. I think we know just the sort of American that hides his pickle in the Cayman Islands, eh?
Shameful!
Jam his phone lines. That will get him. Why not ring his doorbell and run away? You know, if anything actually being discussed in Washington was a real solution getting worked up might be worth doing. But when we have Obama touting an 86 billion annual tax increase, 40 billion in spending to be cut later, 50 billion in new stimulus, and no more credit limit everyone should just be laughing at what clowns think idiots will buy. We have a rapidly approaching 20 trillion dollar national debt, and everyone is getting worked up because Washington has decided to throw meaningless drivel at the problem.
Hey Pig, Obama is still president, the Senate still controlled by Democrats, and Republicans still control the House. Sorry to break the news to you but nothing in Washington changed. But don't let that fact deter you from dancing over 5 seats, it is as meaningless as the proposals to solve our nations debt crisis.
JH lotsanumbers writes:
Really? You needed help from an accountant to know that the President will take the blame from you folks for going over the "fiscal cliff"? Hell, anyone with a lick of sense knows the right-wing knuckle-draggers blame President Obama for everything from bad pot holes to bad pot roasts. Well, maybe not you. You blame Senator Murray for the bad work of Boehner's crew. Hey, you might as well embrace ignorance on two fronts, right?
If these people who pretend to be Republicans had the brains of REAL Republicans, they would have seen that President Obama outmaneuvered them at every turn. What makes that even more surprising is that in his first term, the President tried to accommodate Republicans. But noooooooo! You had your Teabaggers, who couldn't handle a third-grade math test, and Mitch "The Human Obstruction" McConnell so busy sabotaging the President, they didn't notice they were blowing themselves up.
As ye sow, so shall ye reap. Republicans are going to be only too happy to accommodate the President's proposals in the very near future. After all, they dearly love feeding at the government trough.
Call John Boehner's office
202 225-6205
Call your Congress member.
Since we've got laws with the Orwellian name of "right to work", how about some "right to shop" laws? Why don't we have a choice whether or not to pay for stuff we get at a store? It's the same principle that gives workers the right to receive union benefits without paying union dues to get them. The only slight drawback with such "right to shop" laws is that so many people will choose NOT to pay for stuff that the stores will go out of business.
The "right to work" laws have the same slight drawback: the unions will wither and die when too many workers "choose" to get their benefits for free courtesy of the dues-paying union members. But of course to Republicans, that's not the problem with "right to work" laws. That's exactly the result that the they want to achieve. No pesky union-won benefits for workers cutting into corporate profits, and no pesky union donations to the Democratic Party.
Can you believe that one bailout to AIG ($150 billion) is equal to all the government help to the poor from 1990 to 2005. And AIG executives used the money to pay themselves large bonuses.
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Pigslop: And yet the 53% of Americans who actually pay income taxes got all thier AIG bailout money back and stand to pocket a net profit on AIG of at least $5 billion.
And all America has to show for $150 billion spent on the poor since 1990 is more poor people than in 1990.
What was it Einstein said about insanity??
Oh yeah: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
Jody, Iowa-
Thanks, Jody.
You are absolutely right.
It's about JOBS, JOBS, JOBS.
This myth that it's spending is all perpetuated by the Right Wing nuts.
You get people back to work, and the other problems will be solved.
Salud
Rick-3416939
As you well know, President Obama was criticized for negotiating with himself too much during his first term. He's learned his lesson that the more you give in to Republicans, the more they demand. The problem with Republicans isn't that they're negotiating with themselves. It's that they're not negotiating at all.
Obama gave in on the extension of the Bush tax cuts for the rich once in 2011 to prevent Republicans from wrecking the economy by forcing the government into default, but he's said repeatedly that he's not going to give in again. He won the election BECAUSE he promised not to give in again, and his presidency would be fatally weakened if he were to go back on that campaign promise. Which, of course, is exactly what the Republicans want. Their job-killing obstruction didn't prevent him from being re-elected, but they figure if they can't rule the country for the next four years, they can at least ruin it for everyone else.
Democrats want the fiscal cliff, they are the ones that are throwing rock to block negotiations, demanding no need of congress to increase debt ceiling , giving full power to Obama to borrow money. We already live with 46 cents borrow from China for each dollar Obama spend. Democrats want to destroy the future of our economy kicking the can down the road, so our children's have to deal with the debt. Obama increase 5 trillions dollars our national debt , but this is not enough. Obama spend billions in the Stimulus that only create temporary jobs, shift millions of dollars to green energy plants that went to bankruptcy and China is buying now. Obamanomic is a failure. The only reason our economy did not sink is the American spirit of not to fail, Obama did enough to promote failure because he do not believe in business success , because the government owns it. The ownership of the success for the Government give it the right to own their profits as well. This is capitalism versus Obama's socialism.
Get off the computer
and call John Boehner's office
202 225-6205
Call your Congress member's office.
Remind them they work for you.
I have another busy day but Jody, IR, Thomas, David and the rest of my libbie friends - you're off to a great start today. It looks like something may actually get done. And it appears Grover Norquist's head will be spinning as the pledge so many made to him becomes just so much trash in the shredders of Congress.
Maybe Republicans are actually learning they have to DO something - not just be obstructionists - if they hope to survive past 2014.
It is good to see the President standing firm with those who choose to represent a very small segment instead of the entire country.
On a totally disgusting note - apparently Rick Perry has ALREADY declared he will run for President in 2016. At what point does he just go away!
Good luck with that. Obama is packing bags to spend "Christmas in Hawaii" with his family.
Reid has a pile of pieces of legislation from Republicans, but he decide do not bring them to the floor. However don't worry about Republicans , has long Democrats are alive, Republicans will be.
FINANCIALLY, I'm lowest middle class, and feel like we are being held hostage in order to tax the RICHEST.
Joe in Albany,
"People who dismiss the unemployed and dependent as "parasites" fail to understand economics and parasitism. A successful parasite is one that is not recognized by its host, one that can make its host work for it without appearing as a burden. Such is the ruling class in a capitalist society."
As to your Einstein quote, I don't think the intent is being applied appropriately but I congratulate you on at least knowing of a smart person.
So Blacks and Democrats destroy cities now. That a new Limbaugh, Faux News, or Norquist talking point, or did you come up with that all your own? Inner city decay is often the result of business shutting down and shipping jobs elsewhere, and more often, the suburbanization of the inner city. But hey, blame the Blacks and democrats. Odd, given the liberal bent of San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, D.C., Boston, New York, Chicago, those towns must be a giant wasteland. Oops, look again, they are thriving cities with robust economies. Looks like those Dems/Blacks might know a thing or two about revitalizing inner cities.
I believe the "fiscal cliff" will bring the dividends and capital gains tax back up to 20%. So the rich will still be paying less than the working class. I understand the purpose of having a lower capital gains tax (to spur investment), but there is still an imbalance. THE WHOLE TAX SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE BLOWN UP AND RE-INVENTED.
What we all need to understand is that the 90's are gone. It was a perfect storm of opportunity (corporate raiding of balance sheets, dot-com, Y2K, and technology efficiency improvements). The 1st decade of this century was trying to hold on to that boom, and they tried to force it with way too low income taxes. (Throw an illegal and immoral Iraqi war into the mix and you've got a real mess). Accept the fact that the 90's are over and we cannot recreate that prosperity without natural economic forces.
It's time to quit bickering. Both sides are wrong. Show some leadership and re-invent. The "high" is over - accept it and start planning for the new world. And know that the middle class drives the economy. Disposable income drives commerce, not tax breaks for the rich. This country is burning itself out with extreme (right and left) thoughts. Grow the middle (and that includes police, fire, education) and let the make the ends of the bell curve suck it up.
Tired of the gwaddamn republicans rationing the water by hiding the dipper. We must teach 'em. It's our right. We'll tilt the bucket!
Call John Boehner's office
202 225-6205
Call your Congress member's office.
Call your Senator's office.
Remind them they work for you.
Tomas, thanks.
That old business saying that in order to make money, one has to spend money also applies to government. In order to increase economic growth in a recession or as we continue to emerge from a near depression, it is necessary to spend money on projects such as infrastructure, a new energy grid, education, research, innovation. Such spending then creates more jobs which in turn increases local, state and federal revenues which then reduces deficit and debt. This used to be an understood economic policy embraced by both parties....until President Obama took office.
Common sense should tell us that the very worst thing government can do at this point in time is massive spending cuts whether in discretionary spending or defense spending. Adding jobs addresses the deficit. Our debt, long-term, is a problem but right now, it is the least of our problems; what better time for government to borrow money to invest in the USA than when interest rates are historically low.
Every year we see devastating storms like Hurricane Sandy that knock out power for weeks. Why we don't invest in burying electrical cables is beyond me. Give power companies grants to do it as part of a stimulus plan. In the long-term view, it would save millions in annual storm damage repairs making those businesses more profitable. Common sense but for 30 years we have been stuck in short-term thinking instead of long-term goals that would make this country even better.
Oscar-
Lie. George W. Bush borrowed the money from China.
Lie. Democrats are FIXING Republicans screw-up of our economy.
Lie. GWB's two wars, Tax cuts, and Medicare part D created the 5 Trillion Debt.
In fact, your whole post is a LIE.
Shame on you.
Salud
The GOP's 1% Masters are the ones that got us into this Mess, they should be the ones to pay for it, not the Middle Class !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Know how we can be sure they have great public education in Iowa?
'Cuz Jody is one smart gal! :)
Right on the money, as always!
Michigan is FREE.
Michigan is FREE from union.
Michigan workers has the freedom to Chose, Democrats love freedom to chose.
Michigan workers don't will get their money stolen from greedy mob Union bosses.
One more state get freedom. Free to work states has lower unemployment rate.
Yesterday, while speaking on the topic of the public vs. the private sector I mentioned that there have been instance of corruption in my state where the Public was bilked out of money by privatization agendas and payback to political donors.
YellowDog Mark D - I do know that the practice of political nepotism/favoritism from GOP politicians is rampant in Texas. Reports have show that formerly public agency work that was farmed to private business (donors) is often done poorly and at higher cost. In that case, the citizens of the state are doubly hurt because they get a poorer product/service and they pay more for it.
One GOP poster scoffed at me and wanted proof or citations. Here is but one sad story of underpaid state workers getting cut while the supposedly underpaid private sector worker bilks the Public.
___________
State workers cut while firm spends.
By Brenda Bell
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF Nov. 3rd 2012
For more than a year before the state canceled its $144 million contract with an engineering firm it had hired to handle more than $1 billion in federal hurricane disaster relief grants, state managers warned that the firm, HNTB, had radically overspent its budget and should be relieved of most of its duties.
In the end, it was some of those same supervisors at the Texas Department of Rural Affairs who were fired and HNTB that carried on "full steam ahead," in the words of one of the supervisors.
"Everyone was shocked," recalled a manager who survived the November 2010 purge but later left the department. "Everyone knew then the rumors of HNTB taking over were true."
In February, Rural Affairs Executive Director Charlie Stone laid off his disaster recovery division — about 35 employees, almost all of them earning a fraction of the salaries the government was paying HNTB — and outsourced their work to the contractor. According to HNTB's contracted billing rates, its 14 highest-paid employees charge between $200 and $360 an hour for their services, though the highest-paid Rural Affairs employee made $126,000 a year, or $61 an hour.
_______________________
Texas tightens reins on HNTB which was hired to manage US disaster grants. By Brenda Bell Feb. 6th 2012
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
The Texas General Land Office has signed a new contract that puts tighter controls on engineering firm HNTB, which ran into trouble last year for overspending money budgeted for managing federal grants to Texas communities stricken by hurricanes Ike and Dolly.
But it also assures that HNTB will continue to administer $1.4 billion in U.S. Housing and Urban Development grants for public works projects in the Ike and Dolly program, despite concerns that forced the cancellation of the firm's earlier, no-bid $144 million contract with the state's Department of Rural Affairs and that have triggered an audit by HUD's Office of Inspector General.
Land office officials explained that it may be too late in the game to change contractors, which could delay completion of hundreds of nonhousing projects — everything from new roads to upgraded sewage treatment facilities — across dozens of Texas counties that qualified for the disaster grants…
HNTB is based in Kansas City, Mo., but is well-connected in Texas. Ray Sullivan, Gov. Rick Perry's former chief of staff and now with his presidential campaign, is a former lobbyist for the firm. Primarily a highway engineering firm, HNTB was also the lead consultant for Perry's proposed Trans-Texas toll road system. Since 2007 it has earned $112 million from the Texas Department of Transportation for various projects, including $38 million in consultant fees for the Trans-Texas project, which was canceled in 2009.
Though relatively new to post-disaster work, which is funded almost entirely with federal grants, HNTB ramped up quickly after obtaining a state contract for hurricane debris removal a few years ago. To date, the state has paid the firm about $58 million for various disaster-related services since 2008; an additional $7.7 million in work orders has been authorized under its new contract with the land office.
Perry's office has said it had no involvement in those contracts.
About this story
Since October, a Statesman investigation has examined the role of a politically connected engineering firm, HNTB, in administering $1.4 million in federal grants to help Texas communities recover from hurricanes. Nearly all the money budgeted for overhead in the first round of grants is gone, while 70 percent of the planned projects remain unfinished. The firm's original $144 million state contract was canceled, but it continues to manage the grants under a different contract.
TomasGrande
Most people have jobs, and there are plenty of jobs available for those that don't. The problem is that people cannot pay their bills with the jobs they have or with the ones that are available because of the weakened dollar.
Our fiscal and monetary policies are increasing the money supply which weakens the dollar while at the same time increasing wealth and income disparity. Deficit spending makes the rich richer and makes the dollar weaker. It's not a myth.
Leftists decry trickle down economics but seem to have no problem with trickle down fiscal and monetary policy.
I live in a right-to-work state. You don't want to live in a right-to-work state. All it is is a give-away to business in that your employer has the right to pay you less and if you complain about it, they have the right to fire you for no cause. Why do you think the Republicans are so thrilled about right-to-work? Because they care about the worker...or because they care about their Big Donors?
You have the freedom to move to a "must to be" state. I love my freedom to chose.
TomasGrande
Tomasito no grande
Obama is the president for the last 4 yeaaarrrrsssss. Obama borrow 5 trillions and will be 5 more trillions of dollars after his 8 years, you are living in denial.
I also live in a right to work state. The flip side to your comments is, I have the right to work in an environment that rewards people based on what the contribute - not how long they've been there. It's also good to know that management has the ability to get rid of workers that are not pulling their weight.
ReddevBS - You obviously do not read much. Chicago is the murder capital of America. My mom works and lives downtown. Roaming gangs of BLACKS (Democrats) ARE a threat. The city is bankrupt, thriving my ass, the chicago public schools are 1 BILLION in debt, but that didn't stop a raise for the union teachers who graduate 40%+ of thier students. Read the front page of Sundays Chicago Tribune and tell me everything is OK. Stick your head in the sand all you want but the facts are on my side. Come take a tour of the south side and see what the Democrats have done, make sure it's before dark. I can show you pictures of Harvey Il. where I was born, and a picture of Somalia, and you could not tell me which is which! How sad!
Brought to you by the "Socialist" Obama.
Let's just remind people of who the "47%" are:
28.3% are working poor, still pay payroll taxes
10.3% elderly on Social Security
6.9% non-elderly making under $20k
0.9% the freeloaders
Clinton's budget was from Clinton, Republican budgets were from Republicans......but nice try.....
Politician's need to cut your own budgets, before you cut ours!!!!!!!
StoptheCannibals-2908428
Clinton's budget also had significantly lower spending than our current spending levels.
We give you Clinton's tax rates, but you give us Clinton's spending. Deal, or no deal?
oskar-
ROFLMAO!
Michigan just became a Slave State.
Republican THUGS slam the door shut on Democracy; kept the American People from voicing their opinions.
Republican THUGS steal hard working American's money right from their pockets.
Republican THUGS spit on the US Constitution and treat the American workers like dogs.
Republican THUGS just made the great state of Michigan the New Slave state.
Here it is America.
For all to see clear as Day.
The Republican party HATE the MIDDLE CLASS.
The Republican party HATE AMERICANS.
The Republican party is pure, 100% FASCISM!!!!
The Republican Party wants Americans to be poor, stupid, and subservient to THEIR wishes.
The fight in Michigan has JUST BEGUN.
The Middle Class will beat down these Republican THUGS and take back our country because.....
SLAVERY is ILLEGAL.
SLAVERY IS INHUMANE.
SLAVERY IS UN-AMERICAN.
FIGHT THE REPUBLICAN SLAVE OWNERS!!!
Salud
Thomas Grande - Why don't you and your liberal friends get together and buy a buisness turn it union, hire all your buddies and try to make a profit? Problem solved!
Dingle Berry, you give us Clinton's GDP and we'll give you Clinton's spending. Deal?
ptomaine -- What a ridiculous rant and post. Posts like that to the extreme invalidates all you say. I feel sorry for you. God Bless.
StoptheCannibals-2908428
Even as a percentage of GDP, Clinton's spending was much less.
Tomas
Union worker = Slave to union
Non union worker= free worker
We give you Clinton's tax rates, but you give us Clinton's spending. Deal, or no deal?
Deal.No DealI would love to see the Clinton tax rates returned for everyone, still hoping that it will happen during the so called fiscal cliff. However, the Clinton spending is another thing, before you dismiss my comment outright; can you suggest how even with Clinton level spending the deficit can be neutralized.
Let's assume that the tax on the 2% amounts to $80 billion a year and the taxes on the rest of us another $400 billion or so. Next let's assume that deficits continue to run around $1 trillion which goes down to $500 billion a year with the sessation of the tax cuts. Surely you don't look to find $500 billion a year in additional spending cuts. The sequester cuts itself only amounts to $1.2 trillion over a decade.
There is a limit to how much cuts that the country can sustain before going back into a recession. Weathering the sequester will be hard enough. Also in response to your other post no amount of shoring up the dollar or increasing its value will help workers. A long term solution would be for our nation to focus on education to help people rise from temporary jobs to economically better paying jobs.
By the way not the biggest fan of Clinton when you think of how he passed NAFTA, entered the WTO, signed the repeal of Glass Steagall - However his rates along with the fortunate stroke of having the dot com booms and internet growth during his years helped grow the country. I guess that is what they mean by being business friendly - same type of credit given to GOP governors for luck and happenstance when their state economies grow.
That's what I just said. Push Obama's GDP up and spending, as a percentage, will go down.
Why do you think Republicans always use Obama's spending as a % of GDP (cause it looks worse even though we had a recession).
David Walker - the man who knows so little about so much
President Obama will OWN the results of the fiscal cliff. Just like you loons say George Bush spent too much when so much of the spending was after 1/2007 when the dems took over Congress. The man at the top is in charge and should take the blame for his actions. But Obama never takes any blame for anything. He is such a failure as a leader, why the hell so many idiots voted for him is a real mystery.
Tomas - Michigan just freed their people from the union thugs. When you are forcesd to do something it is like being enslaved. President Obama enslaved every American to health care.
FU
Stop the Cannibals
WRONG! Clinton sent the Republicans budgets and they cut them $40 - $50 Billion out of his proposal each year. That is why the government shut down occured in 1995. Republicans cut proportionally with defense and domestic spending. Clinton only protested the cuts to domestic spending and insisted that more come from defense. Republicans gave him most of what he asked for. It was a win-win for Clinton. He got credit for both cutting spending and preserving domestic spending.
StoptheCannibals-2908428 "Clinton's budget was from Clinton, Republican budgets were from Republicans......but nice try....."
Perhaps you are ignorant about the budgeting process. While the President 'proposes' a Budget, it is typically ignored by Congress (witness the 2012 Obama Budget that was unanimously rejected by the Democratic controlled Senate), and then Congress passes the REAL Budget, which is then given to the President for signature (rarely is it vetoed by the President because it would result in much of the government closing down).
So the REAL Budget is indeed the one passed by Congress. It was the controlled spending Budget passed by the Republican controlled Congress that resulted in the so-called Budget 'Surpluses' under Clinton.
Oskar and Mr Grande.
You need both union and non-union. Union to protect from abuses by businesses, and non-union to prevent union abuses of businesses.
Give you a hint, Hostess is a prime example of where over half of the jobs lost to overseas operations are because a union got too strong.
Pigotry - You said the govt made $20 bill on the bailout. Did Obama use that profit to pay back Social Security or has he spent it already somewhere else?
At a moment in time the Unions Leaders were useful and far less self-centered. Those day's left the minute the government formed the Department of Labor. Department of Labor was formed to insure that worker's have rights, are paid at least the minumum wage and are treated fairly in the work place.
There are 23 Right to work states in America, Michigan will become the 24th. You can find serveral comparisons to these states with Union States and most are far better off.
Based on CBS Money watch article, (average adjusted income = is based on their analysis of what you have left to spend, after adjusting for paying your state taxes and dealing with the comparative cost of buying groceries and keeping a roof over your head, among other things)
Michigan's average adjusted income is $37,427 unemployment is 9.1%
Right to Work States Comparison:
One could go on, but I believe you see the point. Union Leaders are not helping their workers today, they are lining their pockets. They are killing cities and people are leaving to right to work states for a job and lower cost of living.
Oscar-
Please provide a link.
Oscar, without Unions, America will be a third world country.
Union Workers = True American
Union Workers = True Freedom
Union Workers = Created the greatest nation on earth and the highest standard of living.
Union Workers = Empowering themselves through numbers so they can fight for the things they believe in - in the political arena.
So sorry you think your fellow Americans should be enslaved and working in conditions they have in China and the Philippines.
Too bad you think your fellow Americans shouldn’t make enough money to buy a home, and have to live in apartments or cheap worker-housing.
Too bad you think your fellow Americans shouldn’t have any say in their working conditions, their salary and their benefits without being FIRED!
Too bad you think your fellow Americans should be slaves to their CORPORATE MASTERS.
Too bad you think THE MAJORITY of Americans sole purpose in life is to cater towards the needs of the wealthy and watch as their children starve or die from poor living conditions and poor health care.
Too bad you think your fellow Americans shouldn’t have a voice in the political arena.
The President is right. You’re hatred of Unions comes from Faux and Rush Limbaugh brainwashing you over the years.
You’re hatred of Unions is because most of them vote DEMOCRAT.
It's obvious you are supporting the Uber wealthy like the Koch Brothers and are a paid politcal blogger to advance the anti-union, pro-slavery agenda.
Sorry, but I AM AN AMERICAN, and I SUPPORT THE MIDDLE CLASS AND THE RIGHTS OF AVERAGE AMERICANS.
Unions ARE America.
Unions ARE FREEDOM.
Unions ARE INALIENABLE RIGHTS AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.
Anyone against unions wants America to return to the days of slavery.
Anyone against unions is against our CONSTITUTION.
PERIOD.
Salud
Any deal will indeed be fragile and short term, if at all. Obama is obsessed with raising the tax rate on that 2% from a 35% rate to one of 39.6%. This would under the most optimistic of scenarios generate enough revenue to run the country for perhaps a week. In the meantime Obama has no intention of reducing spending at all and in fact has given indications that he intends to increase the rate of his maniacal spending.
All this posturing by Obama for this meaningless tax increase and willingness to do great harm to the country if he doesn't get it demonstrates he's a slave to his marxist ideology and perhaps a bit mentally unbalanced, nothing more.
There will come a time when in the not too distant future the so-called fiscal cliff will once again be upon us, except this time there will be no deal possible to prevent us from falling into the abyss. The incompetent fraud in the white house practicing his insane form of marxisism insures this will occur, and the first causalities will ironically be mostly those that voted for this clown.
Democrats don't need to make a budget, that is the job of the House of Representatives. Last time I checked, that was a Republican ruled house, so to claim that Democrats don't do the work is showing your stupidity and lack of understanding of how government works. But I'd expect nothing less than that from a Republican. They aren't exactly the brightest bulbs in the box. Maybe you should ask your information gatherer's about who's job it is, although I'm sure Fox is too stupid to figure it out for you, either.
DinglB
Corporations are making record profits, but little of those profits have trickled down to workers, whose wages are stagnant. if they're lucky enough to still have a job. The conservatives trickle down economics have proved to be a cruel hoax over and over throughout history.
TomasGrande "Oscar- Obama borrow 5 trillions and will be 5 more trillions of dollars after his 8 years................Please provide a link."
Easy - Here's the link to the official Obama White House 2013 Budget projections;
National Debt at end of fiscal 2008 = $9.986 Trillion.
National Debt at end of fiscal 2016 (Proj.) = $20.363 Trillion.
That's an increase of $10.377 Trillion in 8 years. In contrast, Bush increased the National Debt by $4.357 Trillion in 8 years. Here's the link - see Table S-15; By the way - Obama's Budget projections are extremely optimistic (typical for Presidents). The Debt will likely be closer to $25 Trillion by the end of fiscal 2016.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/tables.pdf
You all still don't get it. There is NO difference between the establishment Republicans and Socialist Democrats, except for degree. All this talk about the Repubs and their rich buddies, I suggest you all do a little research on all the connections between the Dems and THEIR rich buddies. Of the top 10 richest people in Congress EIGHT are Democrats. BOTH parties are playing to the rich and have you all baffled with their B.S. about the rich paying their fair share.
N o w r e a d t h i s s l o w l y, so you can all get this. Raising the tax RATE for the rich will do nothing. The one point the Republicans are correct about is cutting the loopholes in the tax code. My concern is that they won't cut the loopholes that the rich use but will screw the middle class once again.
In 1952 the tax rate on the rich was 90%, yes 90% and they still did not pay any more than they are right now. Why? LOOPHOLES, you know like the ones used by the Kennedy's called trust funds, or listing mother Rose, when she passed, as a being a citizen of Florida, when she hadn't even been to Florida for decades, because they didn't wanted to pay the Massachusetts inheritence tax. Or how about John Kerry mooring his boat in Rhode Island so as to try to avoid Massachusetts taxes. The Dems are as bad as the Republicans, as soon as you self appointed intellectuals realize this the sooner we will get ourselves out of this fiscal mess. The whole tax systems needs to be overhauled.
Time for a FAIR tax with NO loop holes. No more bogus Federal graduated Income tax. You all might want to search in the Communist Manifesto - the second of the ten planks to make a socialist nation is a graduated income tax.
Yellowdog-Mark D
I think an excellent place to start is by bringing back Clinton's national defense spending. Beyond that, we all know what the biggest strain on the budget is. Let's have a serious debate about how to fix Medicare.
Agree, but the choice always comes back to difficult decision now, or Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal, etc later. The interest rates will eventually climb again, and when they do, our interest payments alone will be the number one expenditure at our current debt level. I prefer a recession due to moderate spending cuts now, rather than what will happen when rates go back up.
The problem with the federal government promoting higher education through grants and guaranteed loans, is that it significantly increases the cost of higher education while devaluing the actual degree.
The long term solution is getting government spending and the Federal Reserve under control, reforming the regulations which limit competition and protect special interests, implementing the Fair Tax and abolishing the IRS.
tomas
The Republican party HATE the MIDDLE CLASS.
Really? The exit polling shows consistently, the middle class is mainly Republican. The lower class is overwhelmingly democrats. The upper class is split (although the richest are 60% democrat consistently).
Really? Most Republicans are the ones in the military to protect Americans, want our borders secured, put more money into charities, want to insure enough money is spent on the military to ensure Americans are free.
This is too funny.
Of the literal definition of Fascism the ONLY thing that partly fits is a rigid social regimentation. Everything else
Centralized Government - Republicans are for less government and have a continuous track record of cutting governments with a few abberations like Herbert Hoover, Theodore Roosevelt, George Bush (43) and Richard Nixon.
It's the Democratic that balloons government by far the most. Woodrow Wilson expanded government form a $716 Million in outlays to $18.49 BILLION. Republicans managed to squeeze that back to $3.1 Billion.
Roosevelt Picked up where Herbert Hoover left of in Doubling government spending on make work projects, added social security.
Fast forward to Lyndon Johnson and the "Great Society", expanded government for all kinds of anti Poverty programs that required tax increases and borrowing from Social Security to pay for programs that actually leave people poorer and more dependent upon government for hand outs.
Jimmy Carter, who increased taxes to cover for his spending and instituted the most strictest and regulations on how businesses and finance work.
And now Barack Obama, that institutes a Health Care plan that insists that everyone must purchase a health insurance plan, gives the IRS permission to look at your financial accounts to see if you are buying health insurance, so they can see who you buy it from to make sure that your insurance meets what the federal government now dictates what your health insurance should be.
Let me put it this way. FASCISM with good intentions is Still FASCISM, and IS still WRONG!
I say give bama what he wants....Jump off and lets blame someone else..
Tomas
What is it like being such a hate filled person? Are you aware that democrats are the most hate filled Americans? You can tell that just by the comments from the whacko lefties on this blog.
Can you tell me why government workers need union protections? You lefties think the government can do no wrong but you believe in goverment worker unions. That is pathetic. But that is what I have come to expect from the left, pathetic thinking.
FU
"Fragile"... just like rwnj ideology.
section vIII ,clause i and 2; Congress and Congress alone has the power of the purse, a legislative body is prohibited from turning over its duty's to any other branch of Government.
JH lotsanumbers, who has the intellectual depth of Saran Wrap, writes:
Funniest damned thing about that. Bush did not veto a single spending bill.
President Obama has little to fear about the "fiscal cliff". There will be a few days of posturing from the Republicans, but they WILL come to the table, and the President will get most of what he wants. You simply can't recognize the fact that Republican "negotiators" don't know how to negotiate.
clb lotsanumbers:
The unions are at fault? Really? They didn't sit across the bargaining table from some not-very-bright white shirt-types who gave away the store. The fact is, while union negotiators did hurt themselves by taking too much, you have your basic tango - takes two, you know. The executive suite boys are not very good at what they are doing, which raises the question: What makes those idiots worth so much?
Hey trust,
It is the Presidents job to initiate the budget process. The President submits a budget, then the wheels of government start to turn by Congress. Congress produces a final budget from the Presidents original outline. The President then signs off on the budget. That's how it works "in a nutshell". Did you know that?, Or are you an ignorant Democrat that doesn't understand how the government spends our money.
Grandma always you to say"your from up north your not like those Italians".
David Walker - the man who knows so little about so much
When you are a lame duck President and Congress has the power to override a veto why would a smart man veto anything? That is something a stupid democrat might do but Bush was smarter than that. He knew that he was outnumbered. The democrat Congress spent the money. That is a fact. Then we gave the dems the White House and the spending grew totally out of control. That is why we are where we are today. But you loons on the left just don't quite understand the truth.
Why did we ever listen to the stupid dems in 2006 that said they would fix everything? They've had 5 YEARS and look where we are. The next 4 years will not be much better. But I laugh all the way to the bank because my business is doing quite well in spite of the progressive/liberal agenda. I make products that you lefties rely on.
Dingle B - As I've said before it has to be about balance, remove all the temp. tax cuts, weather the sequester cuts - which address defense as well as entitlement spending (medicare etc). After the cliff and the debt ceiling is addressed, tax reform should be looked at. Note, my definition of tax reform is most assuredly different then yours.
Both of us know that what I want and what you want will not come to pass. Here is my guess of what will happen a supposed grand bargain will emerge, the top 2% will have rates go up, other rates will stay the same, the sequester cuts will be pared down to forty billion a year and a twenty billion infrastructure bank will be set up. The debt ceiling increase will be agreed to on the good faith that tax reform will be given a priority as legislation.
Abolish IRS the flat tax etc. really would hit the lower and middle income worker more. If memory serves you are libertarian leaning - Interesting ideas and discussion. I don't agree with them but appreciate the rational response.
It is interesting that the CEO of GE , the Obama's Job Czar said in an interview with Charlie Rose ," it is an accomplishment the Communist Economy of China", undoubtedly for a company that exports jobs to China where the growth of its economy is based on the exploitation of their workers with cheap labor, not regulations on environmental pollution , manipulation of its currency, protectionist barrier against export of products manufactured in America is inconceivable.In what way the GE CEO Obama's Job Czar, can blend its concept of the communist achievement , coming precisely from an Obama's adviser, with the policies of labor of this administration that promote unionization of the country and increase more regulations that make more difficult the job creation.
Dingle as a Liberal Democrat.
DEAL!
Budget for Clinton's last year DOD was 400 Billion.
That cut would go a long way to put us back in the black.
JH,
And you're the man who knows nothing about anything.
Smarter than what? A rock? Judging from your posts, it's possible that Bush was smarter than you, blockhead.
There are a lot of reasons why it would be a good idea to veto a bill even if you knew it would be overridden. But you're just like most of the RWJN's who post here--one-dimensional, not a subtle bone in your body. Everything's black and white.
It's funny people like to rewrite history by looking to blame who has the majority in congress when deficits increase ignoring that it's always the president who sets the agenda and spending.
When Reagan initiated the biggest tax cut and rewrite of the tax code in history at the same time he did the biggest military build up in peacetime history he got the backing of the American people with his fire side chats and drug unwilling democrats kciking and screaming to support his plans even though they ended up tripling our debt. According to republicans it was our democratic majority in congress to blame for the spending and the massive new debt.
When Bush initiated his 2 wars, "off the books" at the same time he cut revenue 400 billion and after his 2nd win when he rewarded voters with checks of $300 to $1200 called "stimulus" one month after the election a half trillion giveaway to reward voters it wasn't Bush to blame for these massive handouts that democrats didn't dare deny giving people it was democrats for not voting them down after all they had the majority. The same with the 100 billion a year drug plan. Even though it was crafted by Ryan and presented by Bush democrats were responsible for the increased debt for not daring to block a massive new spending bill that pandered to the 60 million elderly. You have to give republicans credit for sheer nerve.
The President submits the budget request each year to Congress for the following fiscal year, as required by the Budget and Accounting Act of 1921. Current law (31 U.S.C. 1105(a)) requires the President to submit a budget no earlier than the first Monday in January, and no later than the first Monday in February. Typically, Presidents submit budgets on the first Monday in February.
The Congress can try to amend the budget, but the President can veto it, requiring a 2/3rds majority in Congress to override the President's veto. That's why the Congress has rarely tried to make budget amendments.
The Congress NEVER runs the government by their own budget. A continuing resolution runs the government if there is no budget.
You are trying to say it's the Republican Congress who have balanced budgets and nothing could be further from the truth. It's just typical of Republicans to try to re-write history but it won't work.
Nice try, but why don't you go back to being the worst looked at group of people in the country.
Jack Pottymouth
You defend you cohort David Walker, the man who knows so little about so much, very well. I think you're both lefty loons.
My opinion is just as valuable as yours. I know you can't stand other opinions that don't match yours but tough @!$%#.
FU
Judging from the remarks today it looks like Republicans have entered the "angry' stage of grief now after the election:
In Fox News' election coverage Tuesday night, there was little pretense of fairness or balance. What there was, from the start, was a glum tone that turned downright funereal by the time Mitt Romney finally conceded, near 1 a.m. To watch the network's anchors and guests work through the dawning realization that their candidate was doomed was to witness a textbook case of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross's five stages of grief.
Denial: With the early returns breaking badly for Romney, Karl Rove points to an exit poll suggesting that Democratic turnout was low in Ohio's Cuyahoga County. Everyone basks in the critical importance of Ohio's Cuyahoga County. Anchor Megyn Kelly asks, "Is this just math you do as a Republican to make yourself feel better?" Rove assures her it's real.
Mike Huckabee, meanwhile, is counting on rural voters to turn things around: "I still think Mitt Romney wins when it is all over."
Anger: Shortly before the race is called, Sarah Palin says an Obama victory would be a "catastrophic setback to our economy" and lashes out at the public: "I just cannot believe, though, that the majority of Americans would believe that incurring more debt is good for our economy. … I cannot believe the majority of Americans would believe it's OK not to follow the Constitution and not have a budget."
As midnight nears and reality sinks in, Megyn Kelly takes out her frustration on liberal colleague Susan Estrich: "You, having managed the Michael Dukakis campaign, are familiar with the losing feeling."
Bargaining: With all of the networks calling the race for Obama, including Fox News, Karl Rove pleads for his fellow hosts to un-call Ohio, promising that forthcoming returns in the state will be favorable to Romney.
Kelly, followed by the cameras, heads back through the bowels of the building to grill Fox News' decision desk and see if the network's analysts will change their minds. They won't.
Depression: Ed Henry, reporting stone-faced from Obama headquarters as it erupts in jubiliation: "The crowd is near pandemonium now, despite the fact that unemployment is hovering near 8 percent."
Charles Krauthammer: "As a psychiatrist, I will offer to write prescriptions for anyone who needs them right now."
Acceptance: Still waiting on this one.
No cuts, No deal. Let the worst President ever come up with something to cut for once except the Military. He can't do it.
What a waste.
Yellowdog-Mark D
After being called a reichwing, racist, Faux-news watching bonehead yesterday, the civil exchange of rational ideas is mutually appreciated.
Kevin-Milw
Guilty. More liberal than most, and more conservative than the rest.
That's the impression I've had lately, too. They never had a sense of humor to begin with, and now they're positively testy. "Acceptance" isn't in their vocabulary.
JH lotsanumbers writes:
Really? You should have taken a Civics class when you were in school. (You did go to school, didn't you?) It takes a 2/3 vote to override a veto. At no time was there a 2/3 Democratic majority, during the Bush years. (By the way, you should have taken an English class, too. Democrats is a proper noun.)
Nonetheless, while you love to display your ignorance of the political process and the English language, you may have a career awaiting you in comedy. George W. Bushy? Smart? As the Albanian idiot would say, "That's Hillaryous. HAHAHAHAHAH!
Seriously, if you are going to come here to argue head-to-head, do your damned homework.
In the credibility department, you got nothing. Laughing all the way to the bank? Making lots of money, are you? Looks like those failed policies of the Democrats have been mighty good to you.
I don't see how this government can even operate anymore.Both parties are too busy fighting each other to get even the basic functions of this government taken care of.The fighting trickles all the way down to the avg voters who argue amongst themselves like kids saying my dad is better than yours.While all this fighting goes on,dirty little communist and socialist are carefully planning and plotting to change our government into a form of their liking.I am not pointing out Democrats or Republicans here.We the people need to remember that this country has a constitution that has kept us in business for over 200 years and that we should be abiding by it if we wish to continue being free.Too many politicians on both side are forgetting the constitution AND the BILL of RIGHTS.
Wow! Here's another brilliant commentator. This guy makes JH look smart.
Jack -I agree with you on acceptance. The voters of Michigan have spoken! Accept it! Agreed?
You're really not that simple, are you, geo?
There's no comparison between the President's vow to voters to raise taxes on the top 2% as a centerpiece of his reelection campaign; and Snyder's midnight decision to jam Right to Work down the throats of working people--despite not having given the slightest indication in the past to voters that he would do so.
Don't bother answering my first sentence. I already know the answer.
That's ok Jack off.everyone is allowed an opinion.As for your opinion?well it's real smart too.You have convinced me that the special education system in our schools is working.Now you can go back to being the poster child for pro choice instead of posting on here.
Aww, poor baby. It has nothing to do with your so-called "opinion," and everything to do with you obviously contradicting yourself. But go ahead and hide behind cliches if it makes you feel better.
Having lived in arkansas the wages were low,after the right to work law was passed, the unions were mostly run out , factories shut down then reopened at lower wages, the state now is one of the poorest .
Why in hell Michigan voted for these people, I have no idea. When ya snooze, ya lose!!
Absent some statement of approval for right to work from Tim Kaine and Mark Warner, what makes you so sure that the Democrats are divided on this?
Auntie--the demonization of labor is one of the Republican victories of the last 30 years. I hope labor keeps fighting back, no matter how tough the fight. The decline of the middle class and shift in income equality to the 1% directly correlates to the decline of labor and it must be stopped.
Agreed...
Unions are a cornerstone of American democracy.
.
Just like the two parties, neither is perfect. But the two party competition system has worked well.
Unions are not perfect, but unions have served the purpose of combatting corporate greed and corporate excesses. That's enough. No need for some union opponents to use a few extreme anecdotal cases to discredit the usefulness of unions as part of American democratic system of checks and balances. How about too many of the extreme cases of corporate corruption - why don't they use such cases to totally discredit corporations? Are we in the worst recession since the 1930s or not, then can we use it to totally discredit corporations? No, on the contrary, the taxpayers actually bailed out the misbehaving corporations, such as AIG. BTW, government has just sold all its shares of AIG after the bailout.
Absent some statement of approval for right to work from Tim Kaine and Mark Warner, what makes you so sure that the Democrats are divided on this?
Exactly. The usual false eqivalency B.S. They had to find something to claim the Democrats are dvided about to balance the establishment/tea party division on the Republican side.
We're catching on to the ways the media skewers reality, aren't we?
Haven't you notice the media can't say something bad about the republicans without making something up about the Democrats to appease the republicans.
Auntie, they were mostly voted in 2010 elections, a lot of hysteria surrounding Obama care. Then came the census and gerrymandering. It will be difficult for Michigan to remove republicans from the legislature but Snyder's (Michigan's governor) (the nerd) days are numbered I am sure. I don't believe another republican will win a state wide election after this, at least not very easily. The problem is the damage will be done. Lost in this is the legislation making it harder for woman to get coverage for abortions. This group of people ran on jobs and have done everything in their power to do any thing but create jobs.
Cornerstone of American democracy or they break out the crowbars, bats, and chains. They take in millions in dues that they dole out for political gains while doing nothing to ensure greater pension benefits for the members. Union bosses average 8 times the average members wages. Unions are their own worst enemies, they over reach, and workers suffer when the jobs are taken overseas to avoid another round with the crowbar. Democracy you will accept, or be beaten over the head.
Steeler Fan- you couldn't be more correct about the shift in wealth, and somehow we have got to get that message to the masses- while it's still possible to turn things around with our votes.
Make no mistake- the Forces of Darkness are laboring day and night like Santa's demonic step-children to make our votes as decisive and as relevant as in the Soviet Union of yore.
Is there anybody here besides me who perceives the immense historical irony in the Republican Party condemning our (moderate Republican) President as either a Socialist or a Marxist, while their own party is hell- bent on replacing our democratic institutions with a Soviet- style oligarchy/ military dictatorship?
I think I brought this point up in the first couple of days after the election. This is no time to be resting on our laurels (or sitting on our begonias, either!). The forces of Darkness are organized and disciplined in a way that Progressives and Democrats simply cannot match- it's our own adherence to principle that gives them a permanent, built- in advantage. They are extremely well-funded. And they have the tens of millions of poorly- educated, but thoroughly- indoctrinated footsoldiers, who will do their bidding and keep a permanent threat of (officially sanctioned) violence behind them.
Those millions of frightened, suspicious, ignorant Republican voters are the living, breathing, gun-toting proof of the brilliance of the efforts to defund and destroy public education. People who are scared can be much more easily convinced to act against their own interests. We can never defeat the tiny number of plutocrats, and their slack- jawed,lying, delusional puppets like Albigondas Jose, until we can get those same low- information voters to see where their own interests lie, and stop supporting the Ruling Class that has stolen their children's futures right out from under them.
Hey, Rick-3416939 of #2.6
.
Yeah, but CEOs pay now on average is 1000 times that of average workers. And is it coincidence that the two worst cases of wealth gap happened right before the Great Depression and right before this recession???
And, Rick-3416939, your point is???
Call John Boehner's officee
202 225-6205
Call your Congress member's office.
Stealer fan,
The decline of labor is a direct correlation to the decline in U.S. goods sold both here and abroad. Labor did not help in holding the line on labor cost. Labor has driven all costs up, making the price of U.S. goods non-competitive in the market place. Hence, less production. Hence, less labor needed. We make quality stuff here, we just can't sell it until the playing field is level in the market place.
So dr, you won't be happy until you are working for nothing? With no benefits nor saftey equipment?
And CEO salaries over non-unionized workers can be 700% over worker wages, and so low, they are called non-living wages. Let's see, work as a non-union worker for for wages below the poverty level with no benefits vs. working as a unionized laborer with a good salary and benefits - wow, that is a hard choice to make.
@dr821#2.11: Great attitude and reasoning there. Send every like minded hand you can to me. I'll work 'em all at a starting pay of $2.00 per hour, but they gotta pay me every Friday before 2:00 pm.
GOP Loonies are holding "Middle" Americans hostage ("Blackmail" ) simply because they don't want tax rates to go up on their buddies the Mega Rich !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is and act of War on the American People !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First off there are plenty of Democrat supporting CEO's, they are not all Republican. Democrat Representative Chellie Pingree for example, is married to a multi-billionaire hedge fund manager, who also happens to own every major newspaper in the State of Maine. Where, not a conservative article can ever be found. If you hate CEO's, then look at the boards that directly oversee their pay and benefits. On many of the most coveted board of director opportunities sits many former members of congress from both sides of the isle. Their thank you for always putting corporate interests ahead of taxpayer needs.
If unions are so great for the workers why do the Democrats feel that people need to be forced to join them? Seems to me if they are as great as all you liberals feel they are, then people would be lining up to join. I personally feel unions would have to offer more to their members if they had the right to choose. Maybe some of the union dues would actually end up increasing pension benefits as an enticement to join. Seems pretty hard to understand how anything so good for the workers has to be forced upon them. Or do liberals just feel people aren't smart enough to decide for themselves?
John in BC,
Fair labor laws have been in place for decades primarily from the help of unions many years ago and I'll be standing right with you if safety and gross underpayment were at risk. However, as in most things the unions have outlived their usefulness and are a hindrance to the production of goods and services for the market place. We can produce, but if we can't sell what we produce because of price, we still fail. You already know this. I'm sure it's been discussed at your kitchen table. The company fails if the goods don't sell. If you don't like what you're hearing here, start your own company. I'm sure you will have a different outlook. If you don't like what the owner is making, be the boss, become the owner. Have union labor at your company, no one said you couldn't. Good luck, I hope you do well!
HOW TO FIGHT BACK!!!!!!
JOIN ME>>>
HERE IS OUR WEAPON PEOPLE.....
READ THE ENTIRETY OF THIS POST....
The best way to increase the wealth of individual American families is to have a cycle where companies can expand and contract.
Currently there is only an expansion phase where they become too large and too powerful.
Now we need to insert within the cycle a phase of retraction.
This is done by placing a ceiling on how large organizations can grow.
With a ceiling in place, the market share that corporations are allowed leaves room for small organizations to have a chance for survival.
Just think of all of the family owned stores that have been wiped out by Wal Mart's growth.
Family owned grocery stores are now just a memory.
Family owned farms are a memory and it is this way across just about all industries.
Where as large corporations have wiped out small family owned companies.
We expect for these corporations to be socially ethical when it comes to hiring and paying individuals a liveable wage?????
LOL.....
This is why we are in the situation that we are in in America.
where all of the profits that used to be spread out to many, many families are now just going to a few rich individuals.
By doing this, we will prevent a great deal of this wrongs that are going on in this nation.
I can't continue to fight this fight alone!!!!
It is as if nobody else can see the harm it is causing to our society because of the distraction of all the glitz and glamor that they market in many shapes and forms.
it's hard to fight for so majority of individuals in this nation and around the world when the individuals I am fighting for can't see the core of our demise.
PEEL LAYER....
AKA
PLAYA....
Did you hear the president in Michigan??? LMAO -- I thought I was listening to Bobby Boucher (Waterboy) he stuttered so much.
"In any bargain, the losers should always cave in - that's the whole point of winning - the winners get to write history...and do most other things - at least winning an argument...over this fiscal cliff, for example."-the Pig. You rant about big business...how do you think they are grown? "Winners winning and losers caving"? And I thought you hated big business and corporate "greed".
"The Gallup survey released Tuesday showed 70% of all adult Americans want to see Congress and the White House reach a compromise agreement that would avoid the tax hikes and spending cuts included in the fiscal cliff. That's up from the 62% who said they wanted compromise in a Gallup survey conduced last week.
Similarly, the number of Americans who say they want lawmakers to stick to their principles on tax rates and spending is down – 18% expressed that view in Tuesday's poll, compared to 25% who felt that way last week."
The only thing more stupid then the polls being taken, are the people spewing the results. Does it really come as a big surprise that 70% of the people don't want their taxes to go up? Do you think it would be much of a surprise that those same people would probably be okay if taxes went up on someone else? What they should be asking is how many believe any compromise will actually solve our nations debt crisis. That at least would let us know how stupid the American people really are on this issue. Obama is on pace to leave his second term with our national debt well over 20 trillion, and that is true even if he gets what he wants on the fiscal cliff. Washington isn't proposing solutions, they are selling snake oil to a bunch of idiots.
Peel-layer: "Just think of all of the family owned stores that have been wiped out by Wal Mart's growth.
Family owned grocery stores are now just a memory.
Family owned farms are a memory and it is this way across just about all industries.
Where as large corporations have wiped out small family owned companies."
Okay, so how are you going to control consumers? Walmart wouldn't exist if it wasn't for millions of consumers choosing to shop there vs shopping at the small grocery store. Are you going to force consumers to go back to the inconvenience of not finding everything they want under one roof, and having to pay more?
Are you implying big corporations are evil because they're satisfying customer demand?
You seem to be overlooking the fact that consumers "vote with their wallets." The day that small mom & pop grocery stores offer better selection at lower prices is the day Walmart goes out of business.
So polls show a majority of Americans want someone elses taxes to go up, not theirs. Gee, that's real noble & heroic.
Perhaps the old adage is right. Democracy really does become dictatorship when the majority can force the minority to pay their bills.
Rob-What do you expect people to do, work? Look for better employment? No, when you have a president who is simply wanting to solidify his popularity/celebrity status, he will push what the "majority" of American want regardless of the outcome. "So polls show a majority of Americans want someone elses taxes to go up, not theirs. Gee, that's real noble & heroic."-Well said.
I'm sure it was greedy unions that were to blame for not being competetive not countries like China paying workers $1 a day. Does anyone really want to live in a country where we can compete with $1 a day countries. Slums/shanties?
PIGOTRY.what union are you a member of and paying membership fees to?I just want to know because, if you are not a member of a union,you really don't have alot of room to talk about it.
wolfhound have been in two unions bc&t also cfw would not had a retirement if not for the union and as rick #### said they receive millions in dues and dole a lot to political candidates that is true ,he also said if your forced to join then it cannot be all that good , he may be right somewhat, divided we fall united we stand. If not for the union we would have made lower wages and had lower medical benefits no retirement. But have been screwed by unions and companies . I personally believe unions are a necessary evil to counter the evil corporations.
No matter what the "Growth and Opportunity Project" comes up with, they cannot "fix" the major problem of the Republican Party, which is that the policies it advocates are inherently anti-middle-class and anti-minority.
"Growth and Opportunity" for the 1%, has always been the focus of the Republican Party. That, and growth in the body bags for soldiers industry.
See Michigans right to work, another major attack on working class people.
What the Repubs don't get, and the media never questions, is that their ideology is a non-starter with most Americans. So instead they blame the voter for not getting it, or try to suppress the vote of the people who reject it. They think they can use marketing to sell it, but the crazy fringe won't let them do that, since they keep trotting out candidates like Aiken, Mourdock, Angle and Bachmann in the primaries. Every time I hear one of the talking heads on TV making a million excuses as to why the Repubs got slammed in the last election, I'm thinking that they don't get it - it's not a messaging problem, it's a substance problem. The country has moved on culturally and politically and the Repub party hasn't.
John in Battle Creek-
Amen.
Keep fighting.
Amazing how Republicans hate the Middle Class.
Salud
Yet, most of them are financially in the middle or lower class. Why do Republicans hate themselves?
@RedDevPS#3.5: Teeny, inadequate penises, and oversized vagina's.
If what you say is true,we will see over the next 4 years.If the Democrats don't deliver what they promised,they will be ousted too.The voters these days tend to oust those that do not perform and the Democrats will be no exceptrion if they don't.Just a plain and simple fact.no need to counter attack the truth.
I hope the Democrats do a short-term deal now and let the Republicans manufacture another fake debt crisis in a few months. It will be another nail in the coffin for them. The GOP sure has a lot of faith in its gerrymandered House districts to think that people will keep electing them when all they do is obstruct basic things that everyone wants to have done.
Steeler Fan-380417
Sorry... The first 'Cliff' was obama's idea.
tIMES-RUNNING-OUT,
You have said it on the internet so now it must be true...right?
Times---regardless of whose idea it was, both parties agreed to the fiscal cliff and made it possible by failing to agree in the Super Committee. My point is that the GOP doesn't seem to realize that the public perceives them as being the reason that nothing gets done and that they will damage themselves further by another debt ceiling crisis. The public is weary of this and more and more have figured out the GOP's game.
Steeler fan,
If you only try and patch the problem with band-aids but not solve the problem, you are still faced with the problem. Now you're already looking at ways to blame the opposition, by not solving the problem. Your just playing with peoples lives and children's futures for the selfish purpose of inflicting pain on the opposition. You're just showing what you're truly about. If your attitude was brought to the bargaining table nothing will get accomplished. My respect for you is about zero. Good thing your not in Washington, you'd be worse then what is already there!
Sorry,but you can't blame just the Republicans on any of this.It takes 2 To Tango.
Times-Running-Out the fiscal cliff is a term the republicans and boehner termed .
I heard it on the internet must be true.
Interest and dividend income as well as capital gains need to be taxed as regular income.
Amen, J Willard. Your namesake should not have a lower effective tax rate than someone working in a factory. It just isn't right.
It was weird to see the lettering on the building the union was protesting in front of on TV: The George Romney State House.
J.Willard, exactly. Even President Ronald Reagan came to that conclusion, after his first big tax cut, and he raised capital gains to 28%; he determined that capital gains was earned income and should be taxed as such with few exceptions.
J WIllard. That is one of the dumbest posts I have read ... doing as you recommend would discourage ALL investment !
So someone who buys a piece of land in 1974, then sells same land in 2014 should have gains taxed as regular income ???? Only a maroon would think that is fair !! The time value of money alone SCREAMS otherwise !
Compare what a new vehicle costed in 1974 versus today ! Compare labor rates !! Pull your head out of the sand !!!
I do think it is fair for everyone to pay the same percentage of tax across the board.Then again,our governemnt should be more profitable and less dependant on taxes.
jim#### your analogy is as screwed as your post. Tell me how many would not be willing to make 75% profit even after raising taxes from 14% to 25% still leaves 75%.
It is a sad but optimistic day here in Michigan. Thousands are descending on the capital and will protest as Michigan becomes the 24th state to pass right to work for nothing with no benefit and unsafe conditions. I would hope this rally would make unions stronger. The legislators are cowards for bring this up during the lame duck session, after the first of the year they would not so easily have the votes to pass this horrible legislation. The Koch brothers and their Americans for Prosperity are behind the republican legislature on this and are running misinformational commercials. Is there no end to the money these evil people are willing to spend in order to push America into being a third world country?
Actually, I've been through the FILTH that you support. To the point that our family with threatened with VIOLENCE if my husband didn't join the union.
I'll take a state where I have the RIGHT TO WORK without union interference of my life over the garbage you support anytime.
I'll take the God Given FREEDOM to choose to join a union or not, without the union EXTORTING the money from me, simply because they think they can.
I'll take the right, and my own ABILITY, to negotiate what MY pay and benefits will be, without the union taking hours of what I EARN for their own political power grab, and so the union leadership can live like royalty on the backs of the people paying "dues".
You apparently can't do ANYTHING for yourself and need the unions to not only get you a job, but to take your money for doing it. And of course you actually support that NO ONE WORK unless the unions say they can, after taking their money of course.
You'll take the poverty and the struggle to scrape up the double-wide payment. You'll take complete disregard for employee safety exhibited in non-union mines. You'll eat all the sh^t they'll serve you!
I'll take the right, and my own ABILITY, to negotiate what MY pay and benefits will be,
Which comes out to about $10 an hour, no health insurance, overtime hours when it suits the business, and lay offs when it doesn't. Been there!
I am with you Cheryl--
I am good at what I do and I certainly earn my salary and benefits. If I was unhappy with them, I could go and negociate better ones with someone else....and I would get it. Even despite this economy, an individual with a valuable skill set and good education can find a job and does not need a union holding his hand
CherylLM- I can just picture the sticker on the back of your minivan- "I'll keep my GUNS and my FREEDOM, you can keep the CHANGE." Yeah, even here in a true-Blue Progressive state like Washington, we have your anti- reality spiritual kin.
Yes, do by all means throw away the last meaningful scrap of human dignity you have left for the promise of- what? What are you being offered in return for your future? Ohhh... right. You'll be able to tell your cot-mates in the shelter all about how you "stuck it to them damn Liberals!"
In big, quivering capital letters, undoubtedly.
How do ANY of you left wing drones know what I have or have not negotiated?
Your out and out FEARMONGERING is idiotic, you know that?
While I'm not one of the "rich" that all of you demonize so much, our family is doing just fine and we WILL be paying taxes at the end of this year. We can afford to save, we have a decent health care plan (that will go up four times in cost from Obamacare, and a pretty good pension coming.
ALL of it without the unions doing anything for us, other than THREATENING VIOLENCE on our family.
Cheryl, if violence is what you want, violence is what you will get. Speaking of garbage that describes you union haters to a tee. Your husband is willing to take union bargined for wages and benefits but don't want to pay to recieve them. Scabs like you should be busted. Your husband was under no obligation to go to work for a union company. Actually he probably belong working for Walmart, and getting food stamps because part time non-union people cannot afford to live. Then you could be happy.
So, John in BC, you agree that Democrats are COWARDS for passing 0bamacare during a lame duck session??
pretty good pension coming. ... ALL of it without the unions doing anything for us
my dear, if you've got a pension plan it was probably offered to keep the workers from unionizing, that's another way unions help all workers - by getting companies to treat employees better in order to keep them from organizing. You're welcome.
Oscar, That didn't happen, besides Obamacare gives fair value while this union busting legislation takes away from the middle class. Obama care is a good thing for America's working class, no way can you say the same thing about right to work for less. No Oscar, unless you are a billionaire you had better start paying attention and stop being a fool.
Real catchy phrase there, John in BC, however misleading it may be: "right to work for less." Actually, I now have a right to work FOR MORE. I no longer have to pay union dues, and - BAM!! I now have a bigger paycheck. That's good for the economy. I can now buy more groceries. And, heck, if I save up, I may now even be able to afford a movie or a meal at a restaurant! YAY! Good for the middle class!!!
Cheryl - what an angry b**ch you are! Your ignorance about unions shows you've probably never come into contact with them in any form. The FILTH here is spouted by you - plus a total lack to grasp anything.
Unions have a place and are the only reason some people get a decent wage, safe working conditions, and good benefits. If you don't understand that - you don't understand much. Oh, that would be the problem.
John in Battle Creek
Hey, they learn from the dem when obamacare was passed... How soon you forget.
justoutsidedc
"If I was unhappy with them, I could go and negociate better ones with someone else....and I would get it. Even despite this economy, an individual with a valuable skill set and good education can find a job and does not need a union holding his hand"
Really now? With all of your skills, you'd figure that you could spell "negotiate". You must be president of llliterates Local 1!
We're already a third world country thanks to the greed that is prevalent on both sides. You didn't get the memo?
Cherly the problem is that even in RTW states the union is obligated to work on your behalf if you work for a company that is unionized. You may not chose them but you will get your benefits through their negotiations.
If you truly wanted to be a self made woman then you should support Right to Choose/Lose Bill. I just made it up - Whereupon people in a union company who do not chose to pay dues, do not get the benefits that the union negotiated throughout its entirety of history.
Another quick point, despite her heated words, I will call on my fellow liberals to tone it down. A point can be made without attacking. Let the GOP spew and stew in their rhetoric, we are better than that?
would someone please explain why it should be mandatory for me to join a union if i don't want to and have no intention of using their services?
wolfhound27
For the same reason you should be penalized/taxed for not having insurance.
Just because you don't THINK you'll need the service (or that you are receiving benefit from the service) does NOT mean that you aren't. Speaks more to the limited grasp on the big picture. PS. Mandates were an idea first floated by The Heritage Foundation. You know, that LIBERAL bastion that Jim DeMint will soon be 'running' - you know, to impact POLICY.
Sorry, but that makes me laugh every time I have to think about it.
One of my points is,why should someone be denied work for not joining a union?is that fair to someone that wants to work as compared to getting welfare?or would you prefer that someone be on welfare.This type of argument makes me glad i chose the military as a career.Too bad that career is almost at an end.
Michigan, another state where the teachers are shutting down schools so they can go protest. Even MORE proof of how much the unions care about educating our children.
Do ANY of you libs understand what the law even says, or do you just go along with the "attack on unions" filth that you're fed?
The law says that you don't have to join a union simply to have a job. The law says that you don't have to pay to the unions, even if you are NOT a union member, simply to have a job.
But of course that's an "attack" on unions, right?
Whereas the unions FORCING you to pay them in order to have a job really isn't an attack on ANY American's right to have a job is it.
You do understand that if you had to give payments to someone in order to have or keep a job, that's called EXTORTION, right? But when the unions control who works and who doesn't, that's not called extortion, it's called "dues" and "for the worker".
cheryl: Feel the same way about companies that threaten their employees with being laid off if they don't vote the way the company wants?
Or how about companies that force their employees to attend political rallies, even making them take a day off of work without pay to attend.
Maybe you stinking union and teacher haters need to STFU, if faced with wage and benefit cuts how would you react. I think a state wide strike period is in order. All working people should be in Lansing today not just teachers. This state should be shut down until this evil legislation that not only hurts unionism but also the rest of the working class.
Couldn't agree more. The unions had no problem with trying to get Proposal 2 pushed into our state constitution so they could bankrupt the state in the last election, but heaven forbid we allow someone to work in our state and not be required to join a union.
They are fighting for their rights. The same rights you enjoy in most work places today. Now that punk azz republican govt. pushed that law in a lame duck session behind everyone's backs with no vote or debate and no input from the public. That's British Parliament style government and that's what we fought to get away from. Pretty much every place that has right to work laws the people make less, have virtually no say so and the rate of injury on the job is higher....and about 14% of RTW states employees are uninsured. Basically if greedy businesses in this country could have us working like the Chinese people they would. These businesses are all about deregulate and little to no government involvement into their business practices...Why?...It's because they want to get as close to a slave labor market as close as possible.
Good post!!
McCain the House of Lords has spoken to us commoners.
At one time, workers had to fight for mandated lunch and rest breaks, for overtime pay, for the 40 hour work week, workman's compensation for on-the-job injuries and for unemployment insurance.
These rights were not just handed to workers by beneficent employers, or pushed by Republican politicians. No, these were rights the unions fought for, never forget that.
Amy....that's right "AT ONE TIME".
This isn't that time anymore.
Unions have turned into the very thieves they fought against.
They think they now have the "right" to say whether someone can or can't work, based on their willingness to pay the unions for that "right" to work. In states like Michigan, even if you don't want to join the union, you STILL have to pay the union for the "right" to work.
That's called EXTORTION when you have to pay someone to be able to work, except when it comes to paying unions of course.
And these "rights" you speak of weren't handed to workers by Democrats either by the way.
Cheryl, copy your post and reread it when the unions are gone and you're working fifty sixty hours a week without any over time, you have no benefits (health insurance, holiday pay, vacation, pension, unemployment insurance and many other benefits) and you're at the mercy of the company you work for.
Sure, everybody's free to go and negotiate better pay and benefits with their employer on a one-to-one, unsupported basis.
Let's put that to the test! Just go into your bank manager, or discount retail chain regional manager, or factory foreman, or HR Director, and tell them that your hard work, experience and perfect attendance deserve higher pay- and I'll take medical and dental with that, please. Oh, coverage for my kids, too? Why, yes, thank you, I think I will!
SUUUURE. Oh, you f*****g BET. First thing that happens, you'll never get anywhere near the person who actually makes those decisions. If you accept your rebuff and go quietly back to your work station, you'll be branded as an 'agitator', a 'troublemaker', and got rid of as soon as possible. It's not at all unlikely that you'll be accused of theft, "but if you agree to resign and hold the company harmless, they'll agree not to press charges." (Oh, thang yew Massa!)
If, on the other hand, you attempt to press your case, you'll be arrested on the spot, and if you happen to live in a small community (like mine), your name will be toxic to every other potential employer for forty miles- nobody will hire you because the word on the street is that you're a loose cannon, a potential danger.
Yeah- you just go right ahead and march in there and demand that they pay you what you're worth! Best make sure your family has bail money first. Let us all know how that turns our for you.
In states like Michigan, even if you don't want to join the union, you STILL have to pay the union for the "right" to work.
And, in Maine, if you want to buy a can of beer, you have to pay a 5 cent deposit on it, but, after you bring the can back to the store, you get your 5 cents back, and the state has clean roadways and smaller landfills.
Believe me, that was a law that Republicans claimed was an attack on their "freedom," too.
Cheryl -
The fact that you put the word "rights" in quotation marks in your last sentence and talk about them being "handed to" workers tends to make me believe that you don't believe things like overtime and rest breaks and safe working conditions and child labor laws were ever actually anyone's rights to begin with.
Without unions, none of these things would ever have been "handed to" anyone. And without unions, "at one time" could very easily come back again.
And FYI, I've never belonged to a union or worked anywhere that had one.
JoAnne - reading Cheryl's posts you can derive that she knows very little. She has no understanding of union history or the huge impact they have had on jobs in this country - in a good way.
I've never been in a position that was unionized but I respect their right to do so and I know enough history to know that - without unions - the country would not be as great as it is now and workers would be facing the same conditions they do in China and India - for about the same pay.
Hey John in BC,
"Unionism", is that some kind of religion now? It can't be considered a non-profit.
Free the people of the Republican party, from holding everything hostage to get their way.
Vote Republican out in 2014
Social security would be a broken contract if they touch that.
Agreed. If Mittens had won we'd be at 20% unemployment and rising even before inauguration.
2014 is too far away
Get off the computer
and call John Boehner's office
202 225-6205
Call your Congress member's office.
Call your Senator's office.
Remind them they work for you.
I love how dramatic "libs" are...hostage this and hostage that, everything is a war on something. The war on the economy, the war on the fiscal cliff. If you would simply take a deep breath before speaking I think you may be able to collect your thoughts.
Sounds like you like guns, John Wayne
Probably another grumpy old man, that can't stand losing the election.
Not a grumpy old man, a young man, two years out of college. I'm not upset due to the election outcome, it is what it is, lets move to progress this economy. I just want people to use logic in their thinking. Making things more and more dramatic will only fog your perception of reality. When did we begin to stand up for every little thing that our politicians do rather than hold them accountable? When did we start becoming so weak as to not hold our OWN parties accountable? Everyone is in a right fight rather than a make things right fight.
Boner thinks we should give him the highway.
Whats right about that?
john,you are wasting your time.The Democrats have no intention of nogotiating,bargaining or cooperating.Any comment you make is going to be spun and twisted.Unless you are willing to cave in totally to their beliefs you will get attacked every time you say or do anything.For those who are about to jump on me and attack,just read the ALL the comments on here and see who makes the most accusations.Never mind the numbers people,dive in,make your rude comments.Show me how you plan to convince people that your cause is good and right.
When will the media start reporting the real trouble with the GOP? It's the state legislators and Governors that are taking down the GOP with their radical legislation.
"Radical" would be running up the national debt another $5 trillion in Obama's first term .... without a BUDGET ever being negotiated, passed and signed by Obama !!
jim,
Budgets do not control spending
Presidents do not sign budgets … they are resolutions not bills/laws.
Their agenda in the statehouses is clear---attack unions, attack women's reproductive rights, suppress votes and do the bidding of their moneyed masters. I hope the people wake up from this nightmare and vote them all out.
This is true. The general election would have given them almost a blank check to push their agenda...and the focus wouldn't have been so much on the state because state laws and federal laws under republican control would be working in tandem. What we're seeing is the focus is squarely at the state level because that's where republicans seem to have the most control. When most of the sheeple are pissed off about "big government" they fail to realize that much of the policies they're pissed off about are enacted at the state level....such as (some regulations and higher county or state taxes...)...I say we vote republicans OUT in 2014 because as long as they have control at the state level they're going to get away with financially raping the middle class and the federal government won't be able to do much about it. Obama was ticked at what republican lawmakers did in Michigan but what could he really do? This is a states rights issue...but the people can't do anything (at this point in time) either. They need to remember what republicans are doing in EVERY state and in 2014..make their voices heard by voting these people out of a cushy job.
Actually Undre, there is many things the federal government can do. It can withhold funds from any state that it wants too. Our representatives in Washington can make it very difficult for Rich Snyder whether he likes it or not. I am with you on voting every republican out of office which was made more difficult by gerrymandering following the last census. However it can be done and we should work hard toward that goal.
Jim is all you've got is to keep repeating what you hear on Fox?
John in BC,
Your ranting just makes you look like a loose cannon on a sinking ship! Many people no longer believe in your "Unionism" bully tactics. If you don't mind me asking, why aren't you at the rally at the capital today? You don't support your own cause, but you tell everyone else to go to the capital rally. Some leader you'd make. By the way, the majority of voters in your state want "the right to work" law. What is it that you don't understand with a majority vote. Maybe, since I don't agree with the elections we should have a recall on Obama. I bet there are some people that would love the opportunity to change their vote since they now see how Obama is going to operate for the next 4 years.
by the same token,when will the media start reporting on the trouble with the Democratis party.Better yet,when will the media start reporting the facts about BOTH parties instead of inserting their own facts,beliefs and opinions?
Time to lock both sides in a room with scotch and cigars. We will get a deal in a smoke filled room.
The Scotch part sounds good ... I'll pass on the cigars !
Once they are in there, lets turn on the gas.... Then lets stop look to those nincompoops to save us and get back to work and to living within our means.
So Jim you answer to our problems is murder.
Call John Boehner's office
202 225-6205
Call your congress member's office.
Remind them they work for you.
I did Sandy, also e-mailed Rubio, Bill Nelson not a problem here, district Rep. is a duck and the new one isn't much better, at least Florida got rid of West and brought Grayson back.
Rubio useless, old pudge is a lock-step elephant and Romney toad, but 2014 looms.
Good for you.
Everyone needs to call their Congress member or Senator.
You can call John Boehner's office.
202 225-6205
Sandy,
I called on your recommendation. I told Mr. Boehner to hold the line on increasing the debt limit. He said "no prob". Thanks for the #.
@Mo #10.3, Congratulations ! You have now proven that your comments are inflammatory, have no substance and not one shred of logic !!
I posted an intended funny comment regarding Scotch, which is a favorite of mine. Then you reach waaaayyyyy far up your anal orifice to pull out an asinine comment.
Drop income tax and just have a sales tax for everyone. End of story.
I could agree but just how do you propose to control the huge “Black Market” that will emerge?
This is a major problem in countries that have a national sales tax.
Not only that but a sales tax would make things a lot more difficult for the consumer and especially the poor and middle class, again the rich would hold the hammer on a sales tax. The only fair tax is the progressive income tax that allows those that has the most to contribute the most.
.
In January 1987, televangelist Oral Roberts made an empassioned plea that if he did not raise $8 million by March of that year God would "call him home". His followers came through for him and donated over $9 million by the deadline. What did those who donated get for their money?
Fast forward...GOP leadership seems to have found its own flock of faithful true believers willing to hand over a ton of money to them. What did they get? Looks like a gang-and-a-half of folks got theirs.
At some point doesn't it make you wonder if Republicans want to win? Where is their influence? They've got a pretty good gig going as the punditocracy on talk radio and FOX News and in their Conservative think-tanks...all opinion and none of the responsibility of having to actually make decisions. Besides, the GOP seems to have gained zen-like mastery of the art of victimization. Gain control now and that goes away.
PLEASE LET US GO OVER THE "FISCAL CLIFF"!! This is nothing other than taking a credit card away from a spoiled child- yes it hurts them but helps us all in the long run!!!
Jim
The middle class tax cut expires with the "FISCAL CLIFF"
and your taxes will go up Jan. 1.
What does Obama care if we really do go over the cliff? The feds will get more revenue and he can blame it on the house for not bending to "the demands of the American people". He has a scapegoat and will win another popularity contest. I just don't see why the 2% increase on the wealthy is the focus. We all know that the actual dollar amount of that 2% is not enough to run the fed for over 9 days. That's math. It is purely symbolic. The rich should pay their share"-Regardless, where is the long term fix. I'm tired of band-aids that fall off.
I don't believe how too many people would sit there and think that it's just the Repuks. I think Obama is exactly where he wants things to be, after all the financial cliff will solve allot of problems. I think he and Boehner are in it together. Just sit back and watch who will pay the bills (Middle Class)! Dems are not for the Middle Class, they are for spending and spending and spending. I don't see any hard working people who are barley making a living getting any help. WHO IS THE POOR? BO and Boe will take from SS, just watch and see who gets screwed!
Wrong Bob, it is the repubicans that seem to do most of the spending, if we look back in history Ronald Reagan, the first Bush and especially George W. Bush who had a republican congress most of his years were borrow and spend republicans. Democrats are not to blame for the spending, nor the debt.
John , we need to add ( NEWT GINGRICH) the KING OF THE GOP ,To you list !!!!
A couple of questions, please. What is a reasonable profit margin? remember, the government helps ALL busnesses in one way or another.please think very carsfullyon this one. Also should all gambling be tax the same?
A reasonable profit margin is what the market will pay you. Look at Apple, they are using tech that is 8-12 month behind in their phones that cost the same as a top of the line phone launched last week. The mac books are on par hardwarewise to a pc, but they cost 70 percent more. However, people continue to pay for it. That is the fair profit.
No, gambling taxation should not be the same. It should depend on what the taxes pay for, not how much the governemnt can squeeze out of the casino. Unless you meant taxes on gambling winnings, which are taxed as regular income.
justoutsidedc-- thank you for the input. Yes,I was refering to winnings. Since Wall Steet is by it's very nature , gambling, then shouldn't it also be taxed as gambling?
Wall street is gambling in the loose sense of the word, however, the substance of it is different. In a casino, the house always has the edge, its goal is to strip you of your money. On Wall Street, the companies want the company to be successful, rewarding all shareholders including you.
By making an investment, you are contributing to the growth of the economy and supporting a business that serves the community or a part of it. Investing in Cocacola, or Disney, or Proctor & Gamble gives you and everyone a chance to win and help improve the economy. Putting down a bet on red just gives a single company a chance to take your money with nothing in return when they already have an edge.
justoutsidedc --Again thank you. I see you point,still are you not gambling that the company will make a profit to pay those shareholders. I'm not a gambler so I can't comment on casinos.
I am indeed gambling, but in a way that a win for me is a win for every shareholder and society as a whole in that it gets a stronger company as part of the economy.
justoutsidedc--- I have no problem with long term investment such as those that invested in Microsoft at 6 doolars a share, more power to them. it's the short term investers or "playing the market " I have a problem with, In my opinion this is just plain gambling.
Fair enough..reasonable minds can disagree...though it is nice to have a civil debate on this site!
justoutsidedc--- thank you, yes what kind of world would we have if everyone agreed on everything.Kind of boring I would think. To much hate and name calling on these sites.
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama, but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools, such as those who made him their president." - translated into English from an article in the Prague newspaper, Prager Zeitungon.
Um...the election is over. Besides, don't the Czechs have their own problems?
Stupid comment....SMDH here....!!!
Prager Zeitungon ... there is no such newspaper and the 'article' first appeared in 2009 ...
web.archive.org/web/20101020192059/
professoroflife101.blogspot.com/2009/12/this-is-frightening-time-for-america.html
If the nation can survive a George W. Bush then it can definitely survive a President Obama.
Jon Evos - no the problem and the ignorance is totally on the Republicans who thought Mitt Romney was actually a viable candidate that gave a damn about a country he won't even keep his money in.
What ails this country is people like you who refuse to admit that President Obama is a very good President and the problem in government today can be directly traced to Republicans in Congress.
The stupidiy is all yours - and you show it well!
A "very good President" obeys ALL the laws of our country and sees they are enforced. Obama picks and chooses which ones he will enforce !
A "very good President" will also see to it that a BUDGET gets passed and that our country will not add $5 trillion to our national debt in less than 4 years.
OBAMA HAS FAILED ON BOTH ACCOUNTS ! He is a very good President to those with absolutely no financial common sense whatsoever !
Unions are dead. They are no better than the so called "Big Business" types that they claim to fight against. Union CEO's and bosses are living off the backs of their hard working members and they get very little in return except bankrupt companies and states in dire need of federal bailouts which of course comes from our tax dollars which we never see a return on. I believe we need to go off the fiscal cliff as painful as it will be as we cannot tax our way to prosperity, something that history backs as fact not only for this country, but for countries abroad as well. We must cut spending dramatically, we must cut or alter entitlement reforms as we can no longer afford to pay for people who will not offer an investment in themselves or America. Notice I did not say CANNOT as we still need to be a compassionate nation and always help those in need. Christmas came early for liberals this past November, and you all got your Santa Clause in BHO, but I think all your getting for Christmas is a lump of coal, it just pisses me off that I voted for a change that might have given us hope and now I am stuck with that lump of coal too.
Most Americans would not have voted to reelect President Obama but the Republican party gave them no choice so the republican party is responsible for the reelection of President Obama.
Why don't you mooching democrat-communist slugs get a job. Do something constructive with your miserable lives. You sorry pricks make me sick!
Why get a job when I can leech off of you? Thanks and have a nice day!
We do have jobs you douche!...and if you think The Rich give a damn about you're then your too dumb to know it when their starring you right in the face with a smile and taking your money and your rights at the same time. States with RTW make less than state with unions and the people in RTW states have virtually no voice in how their treated and paid. The fast food industry is huge and here to stay but many seem to want to pay their employees less as possible in order to line their own pockets....but even with the protesting they did they're not going to get anything because, once again, in a RTW State you have virtually no voice...Many, not all, republicans and business want to do away with minimum wage..WHY?..It's because they could pay their employees as little as possible (pretty much similar to the Chinese style or working)....You could be fired for pretty much no reason etc...These business line of thinking is (Your work hard for less while I make as much as I want)....
Joe, what a real puke you are. I am a Democrat and I am not a communist but it sounds like you are a FASCIST REPUBLICAN. I am also a VietNam veteran who fought the communists in S.VietNam. Joe, are you really John McCain in a$$hole's clothing ?
Bite it prick!
Whoa, Joe...all that hatred may be ruining your life.
Hmm...I guess someone isn't getting enough fiber in his diet.
K2mn - methinks Joe has no life. Clearly he has no clue!
Why don't the rich want to pay their share? I'd also like to see all the politicians cut their budget, no more first class, no more "business" steak dinners, etc., etc.! And, budget the foreign aid, like we really need to send aid to China & Russia!!!!
We're broke, act like it!
Joe, I do have a JOB, And what I do !? That would be , O.R. TECH. for 20 yrs.
On my feet for 8 + hours!!!!!!!!!! And THAT IS A BIG YES to having a UNION......
I'M NOT a SLUG !!!!!!!! As you refured !!!!
kitty----you are exactly the person who the GOP would hurt by raising the retirement age---you do work that is mentally and physically demanding and requires you to be at your sharpest at all times. But rather than have those earning more than 100K pay a little more in FICA taxes, they would have you work longer.
@ Steeler Fan , I know !!! And if the GOP gets their way , I will DIE while passing the knife to the surgeon!! Your right , THERE WILL BE NO RETIREMENT FOR ME !!!!!!!!
Looking at the history of mankind the ultra conservative ancestors remained on the continent of Africa while the progressives left the continent to explore and create the progressive developments that enriched civilization.
Wow, even the history of the earth is now being written with the liberal slant!
I'll bet those "progressives" that left the continent to explore were all union too, right?
One great advocate of the rich sharing their wealth with the poor was Jesus Christ so does that make him a socialist or communist? Unions would never have developed if that had not been a need for them.
Prog.1--
You are correct in that there was a need for unions and that is why they came into being. However, that need has been supplanted by labor laws among other things and that is why in today's world they are dying out. Before this uproar the last couple years, union membership was steadily declining from about 30% in the late 60s to about 12% now.
Sen Graham Kracker says that we may give [Republicans] on the taxcuts but come the debt limit early next year they will dig in to get Social Security & Medicare cut/s Why not cut the oil subsidies,foreign aid , tax benefits to the companies who move offshore and how about cutting benefits for congressmen & senators alike. They don't do anything to earn them as all they do is say no and won't compromise.
How about cutting the guaranteed "green" loans and subsidies that are TWENTY FIVE TIMES what the oil companies get?
Oh and by the way, Obama's jobs "czar", who is also the head of GE, has moved more jobs overseas than just about ANY other company in this nation during Obama's tenure. And his company, that makes BILLIONS IN PROFITS every year has not only NOT paid any taxes lately, but is getting BILLIONS back from the government.
Says something about Obama's hiring skills, and how much he REALLY cares about getting people back to work in this country doesn't it?
I totally agree...and while we're at it..let's examine what we're spending on the military and see what we can cut there. Let's cut that wasteful Medicare Part D. Now I know people here are going to call me a socialist for saying this but since we have many socialistic style programs here in the US...here I go...We need to do away with Medicaid and Medicare and any other health insurance programs and expand the ACA to be a true Universal Healthcare (Single Payer) System. It will allow us to consolidate and eliminate wasteful spending. We will eliminate redundancy and save billions.. This is just my opinion though.
60's veteran run in 2016, you would get my vote!
how about repealing the NAFTA agreement and several other free trade agreements and get American industry to come back to the USA.Then we might get more jobs and made in the USA labels.
One thought..can we postpone the implementation of the health care act for a year or two to help with the "expenditure" side? Second thought..Michigan's right to work law - I thought this was a free country so one could work without being compelled to join a union. I guess I am wrong - the union can dictate and wants to continue doing so.
Obama and his Demoncrat minions want you to be FORCED TO JOIN "THE PARTY" in order to have a job.
NO THANKS COMRADES!!!!
DECLARE WAR ON THE OBAMANATION!
Hi Camper--
In a number of states, you are required to join the union if you work a specific job. You are not allowed to work in that job without unnion membership. In my state of Maryland, a teacher in the public schools has to be a union member. Some teachers leave for public schools because that is not a requirement.
In a right to work state, there is no mandatory union membership as a job requirement for employment
This is often seen in factory/manufacturing jobs such as the auto plants in Michigan. The UAW (to use as an example) asserts that all the employees benefit from the Union, so they should all be required to pay for it. The flip side is that there are some people who do not want to be constrained by the Union...they would rather negociate a salary based on their own merits and not be forced to go on strike if they do not agree...most of all they do not want money taken from their paycheck every week.
DECLARE WAR ON THE OBAMANATION!!!!
No blank checks for the Demoncrat spending vampires. Debt ceiling power belongs to Congress, not the executive branch!
Freedom of choice and association for American workers. Unions will need to demonstrate the value they bring if they want people to choose to pay dues to them. And for once the dues will have to be used to benefit workers, not buy political influence or line union boss pockets!
STARVE THE BEAST! President Blackula and his vampires will no longer suck the economic blood of our nation dry!
You're sounding a little racist there...but anyway....
Now this is just "PRICELESS"...A conservative arguing FOR "Freedom Of Choice"...
Oh! and do you even realize that MANY, MANY of the rights you currently have in RTW states are largely due to unions who fought for those rights? I'm sure you don't which is why you advocate RTW which means lower wages and less and sometimes no employee say so as to how they're paid or treated on the job....
had enuf...we should have a conversation without resorting to mean name-calling
Republicans always want their cake, and eat it too.
Pigotry you are a fine one to talk about name calling.You have hundreds of posts doing exactly that.
Why did Hitler ban unions and forbide organization soon after taking power?
Because he didn't. He doubled down on unions.
He disbanded the Wiemar unions, but created the German Labor Front comprised of two entities, the National Socialist Factory Organization and the National Socialist Trade and Industry Organization.
So stop with the disinformation.
Why did Hitler take the German's guns away?
He also created a healthcare system.
And "green" jobs.
And class envy.
And "protected" women.
Sound familiar?
Poland and Lech? ship-yards?
Entitlements? How about the lower tax rate for interest income and capital gains. There is no evidence whatsoever that lower rates on capital gains and interest increases GDP and as the world's most successful investor said, investors will invest no matter what the tax rate is. Tax subsides for oil companies? That is a no brainer, that nonsense needs to end now.
Clinton lowered capital gains from 28% to 20%.
Tax revenues increased.
Bush lowered capital gains from 20% to 15%.
Tax revenues increased.
That is a no brainer, that nonsense needs to end now.
JW,
Taxing dividends at the same rate as other income is double taxation. Tax is paid by a company and THEN dividends get paid on what is left AFTER taxes. Double taxation is inherently wrong, plus it will absolutely hit the fixed-income retiree segment of our population much harder than any other group. This is BAD policy!
As for capital gains, no intelligent investor takes any decision without understanding the risk/return opportunity in the investment. We have historically tried to encourage investments by providing tax advantaged treatment of capital gains that make the risk/return proposition more attractive. If you raise taxes on capital gains, you WILL reduce the profitability calculus and retard investment to some degree. Do we really want to discourage investment at this time????
And what you charcterize as "tax subsidies" for all companies are not subsidies at all. They are, in fact, almost completely deductions that are open to just about all industries in the US (see below).
Oil companies earn about $0.056 per dollar sold (5.6 cents on the dollar). They DO admittedly sell a lot of volume, but they do not have outrageous margins at all. In fact, their margins are LOWER than almost any other manufacturing-based industry in the US. Just because oil companies make a lot of money does not mean that free-loaders should have the right to have the government take money from their pockets.
Face it JW. You grasp and buy into the talking points of the left but there is no "meat" in the argument to defend your position.
Do us all a favor and go get an education or a job and stop wasting space here.
Dumbest idea ever?
Sounds like a made for tax shelter if I ever saw one.
Tell me what are you going to do "Audit" another countries tax records.
"Yeah...Yeah...we paid a billion in taxes over there"
I'l bet a Republican came up with this brain child.