It has to be a funny feeling to know nothing about anything huh Feisty!!!

Feisty--not only do unions support Democrat candidates, they have the best get out the vote efforts. This doesn't fit with the GOP voter suppression efforts.

what, no Nazi comments? I found it interesting you slinked off when even those on the left called you out. Enjoy the ingorance Red, it fits you quite well.

Wouldn't have anything to do with organized labor's support of Democrats,

or the drain on society by being forced to pay union dues. Again ignorance looks good on you

Again feisty?? As a dem I'm more and more embarassed by you foaming at the mouth left wingers. Yer as bad as the tea party. All this does is give people the FREEDOM to NOT join a union. If I don't want to support the union bosses and play by my own rules I should be allowed to. My choice, My responsibility. FORCING me to join was as bad as FORCING me to buy health insurance. All I want is more freedom to make my own choice NOT be treated like a child and be FORCED to do this or that because it's better IN YOUR EYES. Have you ever been in a union? Ever see how NON-Senior people are treated? They have to cut back so they cut back on evryone ele's benefits but their own. Union bosses are just as bad as the dang Corporate bosses in their greed. FORCING me to do more and more like this is starting to make me agree (unfortunately) that we are going the route of socialism....WHICH CONTRARY TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU DOESN"T WORK!!!!

Caesar, you left out the higher unemployment due to unions as well. Why hire 100 people at $20/hour, when we're being forced to pay $25/hour! They'll just hire 80 for the same payroll, and probably keep only the most senior employees, which are usually the least productive.

Way to go Obama I just saw where the guys that got caught getting drunk and stoned at the Chyrsler plant just got their jobs back because of the unions. I couldnt believe that got fired for getting high on luch break because building cars high and stoned is no big deal.

President should not get involved with states rights. He should not have an opinion except this president was elected (vote tapering) with union approval. RTW is the only way to go. Get rid of all unions. Not good for the worker or economy. No one is worth $40-80/hour on an assembly line. Most of this goes to the unions one way or another.

Truly frightening that somebody who worked/works for the Obama administration/election team that feels this way.

Of course you see it as completely political - true believers on the RIGHT AND LEFT always do. You're both part of the same rabid animal.....and small business' (i.e. workers) are who suffers.

But go ahead and keep towing the line that there really are two, very different parties to choose from...it's what keeps you slobs in business. PATHETIC!

and here we have Steeler and Feisty with their stellar analysis of what Right to work is. no one is taking unions away but let them spin it to the sheep. fortunately most of what i have read today is people are in favor of this.

What a useless and divisive president. First, if you disagree why don't you act like a LEADER and speak with your Congress and representatives? But not THIS incompetent president - he is in "campaign mode" whether he is talking about unions or buying ice cream. Mr. President, ACT like a leader for at least ONCE in your life!!

Secondly, why make a comment like that? Are you telling me Mr. President that if I want to negotiate with my employer directly I should not even have the OPPORTUNITY too?!?!? I thought the Democrat Party was the party of "choice"? If I CHOOSE to work for an amount of money that I feel is acceptable to me AND my employer are you now telling me I shouldn't even have the CHOICE to?

Some in this thread is pro-union and believes in Forced Unionization. Others are anti-union and believe they should be eliminated.

I stand in the middle. Of course I believe unions for the most part actually HURT workers wages and benefits (when taking into consideration those jobs LOST due to union contracts) but I am a supporter in "choice". I would not tell a person they CANNOT join a union but on the same logic there should not be a situation where a worker is told they MUST join a union.

Democrats LOVE to talk about being the "party of choice" but yet, in this case, are telling workers they DON'T have a choice? Shouldn't a person have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE whether they want to join a union or not? How can Democrats feel comfortable with a position that tells a worker they CANNOT make their own choice and they MUST join a union? Doesn't that go totally against the position that Democrats believe a person should be able to make their own choice?

Democrats say you should have the "right" to choose whether you want an abortion. The "right" to choose whether you want a same sex partner. But yet you DON'T have the right to "choose" who you want to work for and how much you are willing to be paid?

Dick -

President should not get involved with states rights. He should not have an opinion except this president was elected (vote tapering) with union approval. RTW is the only way to go. Get rid of all unions. Not good for the worker or economy. No one is worth $40-80/hour on an assembly line. Most of this goes to the unions one way or another.

Yeah, get rid of unions and pay these American workers $12 an hour so they can't make their house payments. That'd be just fine with you, wouldn't it Dick?

Afterall, John in Battle Creek, Red is the color of all you Commie! LOL!!!! Pls stop spinning and regurgitating the Dem talking points. RTW DOES NOT TAKE AWAY COLLECTIVE BARGAINING. It simply gives the worker - ya know, the guy unions supposed are trying to protect - the right to choose between the union and not. I thought Dems were about choice. And if union membership was so damn great, why does the union have to COMPEL people to join?

because im sure Battlecreek Johnboy has the inside knowledge of the Michigan Legislative body. Whats the matter lefties, thought you guys loved CHANGE... HAHAHA!

Brewgeek, if you don't want a union job, then don't take a union job. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. But if the union negotiates better working conditions and pay for the workers, why should you benefit without sharing the cost. Why should you have a right to undercut the union. This bill should be called the right to scab law, or the right to exploit. Remember, next time you are enjoying a weekend off, or watching your child play in a weekend football game, it is unions that made those things possible. Without them, both you and your child would be out working!

i gotta say... i'm torn.... i used to be a part of the UFCW and i gotta be honest.. the people i worked with were lazy as sh*t. because of the union it was impossible to fire them or get promoted because of 'seniority'

on the other hand... i don't believe for a second that the repubs are looking out for the working class... damned if ya do... damned if ya dont.....

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL...exactally what constitutes a free elecion ? Consider the money spent on the past election....nothing free about that. Consider also the many talks made by Romney and the republican party in general...and who they gave the most attention too...and for your info..it was not the middle class who Romney spoke down too until he realized he was losing.

The Pursuit of Happiness

From the article above:

"We should do everything we can to encourage companies like Daimler to keep investing in American workers," Obama said, "what we shouldn’t be doing is trying to take away your rights to bargain for better wages and working conditions."

That’s the Democrat way.

Unfortunately, the Republican way is to make us all subservient and enslaved.

The article continues...

The audience responded enthusiastically as the president continued: "These so-called right-to-work laws, they don't have to do with economics. They have everything to do with politics. What they're really talking about is giving you the right to work for less money."

How true, Mr. President.

The Democrats and our President continue to fight for the poor and Middle class.

While the Norquist House of Obstructionist continue to want cheap labor and a third-world America.

How sad that the Tea Party Republicans hate the American Dream.

Salud

Oh come on. I live in a RTW red state and it sucks. Spin all you want to make it all look bad, but the fact is it is designed to intimidate people and bust unions.

All this does is give people the FREEDOM to NOT join a union.

The only problem I have with this is that in mixed union shops, someone who choses not to join the union, still gets all the benefits the union bargains for. They do not have all the protections though.

If you want to know why this issue is so important to Democrats, just go to OpenSecrets dot org and have a look at the largest campaign contributors over the past 20 years. 11 out of the top 20 are labor unions (1 out of the Top 20 lean Republican). This isn't about protecting workers' rights, this is about protecting their campaign financing.

SO what is the difference between "right to work" and" right to work only if you join a union"?One I don't have to pay to join the other I do, one I have to speak for myself the other someone speaks for me and I have to do what they tell me and pay them for that. Am I getting this picture. One I can work it out for myself if I don't like it I can quit, or they can fire me. The other they work it out for me if I don't like it and they make the company pay too much it goes out of business, we all pay too much for the product, the company goes out of business, we all loss our jobs, and we still have to pay them to do that for us. Oh and the big one if I work for a Union if I don't want to do the job I can tell the BOSS to go F his self and the Union will help me keep my job for being a good union employee.

RePubs on a level playing field "When Pigs Fly" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I come from a state that is heavily unionized and this affords those of us that are not currently in unions in this area the same type of pay and benefits that union members get. Because if they did not, companies that did not compete with unions for the best employees would fold. I am also in a position that affords me a window into wages of other right to work states. I found that for the same kind of work, those in non-union states are usually paid a lot less for the same work as a state that like mine. So i truly see why the president calls it like he sees it... a right to work for less.

And to those who have a problem with paying dues, at least in these parts, those dues pay not only for the member's benefits, also for legal council and, most importantly, job protection. Because no matter how good you are at your job, the employer is always looking at the bottom like. And if you think employers would not forgo a pay increase for you or fire you to hire someone less expensive just cuz you are a "good worker" just for the sake of saving money you are not living in the times. No matter how good you are, you are always replaceable. At least with a union you always have the collective to have your back. Sure some take advantage, but for most it is about protecting a living wage and safe working conditions and dues help to guarantee that!

Once again Obama is running his mouth without knowing what he is talking about. Nothing in this legislation does anything to ban or otherwise outlaw unions. All it does is make union membership optional. This means that the unions would need to demonstrate value to their members instead of just being able to extort money out of them for the simple right to work at a company. Forced union membership via closed shops is nothing more than legalized extortion. If the unions truly are of value to their members than people will willingly pay their dues, the same way they pay to belong to any other organization that they see value in. This is nothing more than Obama paying back the unions for all those campaign contributions. His entire administration is bought and paid for by the unions and Obama will do whatever he can to keep those donations rolling in. I can not believe that anyone who claims to be for the right of the individual could possibly be against a law that gives those individuals the right to make their own decision about whether or not union membership is in their best interests or not.

What RTW is, allowing a part of the work force access to union benefits and wages without paying for them. That stinks as bad as right wing azzholes, like C.A.. This weakens unions and for that it is union busting and nothing else. Snyder is one and done I hope because gerrymandering won't help him in a state wide election. As far as the legislature it will be hard to undue all the evil that has transpired in Lansing the last two years. I am beginning to think Communism might not be all bad considering how the free market has created greedy SOB's like pro business.

Killian Jones

This isn't about protecting workers' rights, this is about protecting their campaign financing.

It's about both protecting workers' rights and protecting the Democratic Party's financing. But the reverse is true for Republicans. They want to use these "right to freeload" laws to destroy workers rights. At the same time, they will be destroying the Democratic Party's primary source of campaign financing so that the crazy billionaires who tried (unsuccessfully ) to buy the White House for Mitt Whatzisface in November won't have any competition in the future. The Republicans want to turn the US into a one-party state ruled by plutocrats.

So sad that the President of the United States does not know the meaning of "right to work".

My father was correct in describing the President. He said that Obama is doing his best to pit the American people against Congress. Listen to Obama very carefully. It's all there before your eyes.

Plus, Obama knows the media is still stupid enough to cover for him.

And as someone else mentioned, the President has no right to mingle into the business of a State.

The good old boys work for the 1% to make unions a thing of the past for slave labor, Pigs will be Pigs !!!

Jo Ann, congress does not need the president to help them look bad. They do that all by themselves. Even Fidel Castro is more popular in the US then the current congress

Why the big deal? Why FORCE people to pay to work? I thought that your unions was based on "brotherhood", and "solidarity"?? Wouldn't those same members want to pay their dues? No one is hurting the unions except themselves. I thought that the left would be for this because those that can't afford to pay, the other members should share their burden, right? I mean isn't that the same logic that you on the left are using against those evil rich 2%'ers?

Ha - some of these posts are so embarrassing. Our general population is in such a ridiculous mess that we don't even know what we're talking about or what we stand for. We're more interested in trying to argue about things we don't know about, defending people on sides of something that isn't even real, and not actually try to understand or actually learn things and make intelligent informed decisions and statements.

Are you "liberal" people seriously saying you don't think someone should have the right to NOT join a union? This isn't talking about whether unions are allowed or not or whether unions help people or not, or whether you or anyone wants to be in a union or not. It's just to allow people who want to be in nunions to be in unions and people who don't want to be in unions to not be in unions. I promise you that the people who originally fought for unions rights would be on the side of the republicans on this one.

Yeah Bubba, your free to screw the guy working next to you, and screw yourself in the process.

Anyway, my question for you is why you want to take a job in a union shop? There are plenty of nonunion shops around. Is it because the union shops pay better? Maybe it is the idea of a paid vacation you like? Or could it be you want the protection from that boss that just doesn't like you, well you know, he just doesn't like you (or maybe he really does :) ? Could it be that the nonunion shops just don't provide the same kind of work environment? I mean really Bubba, you are free to apply anywhere you want. Why would an anti-union guy apply at a union shop?

JK - yes you are absolutely right. Normally I don't try to bash people but this is too ridiculous. I don't think they're really using "logic" at all. From reading the posts on here, they don't even know what they're talking about. Just using this "republican vs democrat" article as another excuse to just rip on republicans, instead of even understanding what they're saying.

John in Battle Creek

It isn't about freedom to choose you stinking right wing scabs. Its about busting unions. You all can go to hell and probably will, you are the most evil people in the world. Greedy bastards.

Typical Democrat nonsense and hate speech.

• HEY Feisty: LET'S TALK ABOUT A123: OMG, how does a company get a 249 MILLION dollar loan, and end up being sold to China a year later?.....this President is an IDIOT, he has brilliant minds all over this country...USE THEM.....how come there were no guarantees with this MASSIVE LOAN ?
• The Chevy VOLT sucks, they can't give them away ($41,000 for an electric car)....can't give them away, union wages are adding a ton to the cost of this POS car, now the battery-maker is going to China, after we borrowed the money from China to build them....this is ridiculous

Well said Mr. President, BRAVO . . . .

Well said Feisty Redhead, Pigotry and John and a ton of others . > :)

Thanks for reading.

askaboutet

Are you "liberal" people seriously saying you don't think someone should have the right to NOT join a union?

No. Are you "conservative" people saying that people have the right to freeload off the benefits gained by dues-paying union members? And here I thought that conservatives were anti-moocher. Maybe that explains why Mitt Whatziface got 47% of the vote. Maybe he wound up getting the moocher vote.

Houston!

Thank you for replying - okay. so to be honest, after reading your post, maybe I am not quite understanding exactly what the law does - what is the freeloading that the non-union people will be doing?

Also, when you say "no," what would you say they're saying, then? Aren't they against the right to work when you're not in a union?

Really?! The president spoke to a union and he really said that enacting "right to work" legislation is bad? How ever could right to work legislation be a threat to unions? Especially Detroit style unions?

Reality calling- Notice that large companies are leaving the expensive Northeast, the Great Lakes cities, etc. to move their operations to different parts of THIS country? They are keeping the jobs "here" per the President's statements, however they are moving them around to locations where the cost of living is lower, where there are people happily willing to work for less than others living in areas where they HAVE to earn more to live. It's not that tough really. Here's a neat regional example: Pratt and Whitney (airplane engines) has it's operations in Hartford, CT (expensive cost of living, taxes, etc.). Management said, "Hey if we were to move our plant to Georgia it would cost us millions less per year." So they went to the unionized workers and said, "We'll relocate all of you and you'll continue to have jobs with us if you go to Georgia." The union spoke up and said, "Hey, we have a contract. You can't shut the plant down and we're not taking any less money for moving elsewhere." The management said, "Are you sure?" The union responded with a lawsuit to keep the plant open through the end of their contract. The management was forced to keep the plant open but decided not to have another round of contract talks. At the end of this year the Hartford, CT plant will be closing and P&W will be opening a new one in Georgia. All of the unionized workers in CT are without a job. In the end the workers chose to put their feet down and not move, nor take a pay cut (rememgber that it costs about 1/3 less to live in Georgia), so they are now unemployed in a high cost state. Was that a good decision?

You've got to remember that you have a job only as long as your employer/company can afford to stay open and make a profit. Hard facts folks. Government stimulus and payouts only go so far, just look at Detroit. The city council is now asking for a bailout or they are bankrupt. It only perpetuates more if you use taxpayer money to decide who wins.

I am beginning to think Communism might not be all bad considering how the free market has created greedy SOB's like pro business.

I'll pitch in to help you get to Cuba. Hey dont forget to write. I would love to hear about your Communist Utopia. Remember Lib, CHANGE... HAHAHA @ YOU!

TO: Dick227 who wrote:

"President should not get involved with states rights. He should not have an opinion except this president was elected (vote tapering) with union approval. RTW is the only way to go. Get rid of all unions. Not good for the worker or economy. No one is worth $40-80/hour on an assembly line. Most of this goes to the unions one way or another."

Sounds like the insane gibberish of coo-coo RWNJ.

So, according to you, President Obama ought to remain silent and let the Republicans rob the American Workers blind.

Right, RWNJ.

LosMan123 ...

EXCELLENT post @1.30! I would suggest everyone read it!

A democrat mayor and union equal Detroit.

The president has it exactly right when he describes it as the right to work for less and less. My union dues are the best investment I have ever made - bar none.

Typical Democrat nonsense and hate speech

Typical republican pointless and meaningless response.

and I will pitch in to send you to Iran, C. A. scum like you don't deserve a free country.

Houston,

So equate that 47% of the nation to those that choose not to pay...in your world, you want those that can pay to offset those that can't (or won't)...what's so wrong about that? Gee...using your logic you sound like a Republican...

Co man, typical stupid republican, probably not a billionaire, and most likely benefiting from unions and yet to stupid to realize it.

what we shouldn’t be doing is trying to take away your rights to bargain for better wages and working conditions.

Sometimes I have to wonder if he’s really that stupid or he’s just tossing out the most inflammatory
thing he can find to say and at this point – it’s a tossup as to which it is. The NLRA ensures that every worker, regardless of the state they live in, has the right to form a union and to bargain if they so choose. The right-to-work law only says that people can’t be forced into funding the unions and that's a good thing.

KevinT-

A democrat mayor and union equal Detroit.

Oh goodie.

I love this game.

My turn.

A Republican President and no WMD's equals Mass murderer.

Salud

Iran? why Iran, you hate brown people. stupid racist. no John, you said you like communism and well communism is hardly a fight for freedom. Kind of like paying union dues to work at a job. RTW eliminates the forcing of people to have to be in a union. Welcome to the 21st century. Remember, CHANGE.

i like the term scum, reminds me of the Alliance in Star Wars. I'll be rebel scum if it means crippling the Empire. May the force be with you.

GOP Fleabaggers see the middle class as Slave Labor, they don't want you to have a voice !!!!

Don't let the Koch Baggers steal your Rights !!!!!!!!!!!!

Feisty,

I peruse these articles frequently, and all too often the first poster is YOU!

I have been in the position of being first poster perhaps once or twice in the past few YEARS, because I work for a living.

This says one of two things to me,

1. You sit at home on the public dole and jump on each article you are interested in within 10 seconds of it being posted.

2. You actually ARE employed, and you spend your paid time surfing the 'net for articles you can post your BS on, and screw your employer.

STFU

The numbers do not lie. Unions work for everybody whether they are in a Union or not. As Union membership has declined so have wages. It is a very close relationship as this chart shows.

It is indeed the right to work for less, or as we put it: United we bargain, divided we beg.

GRAPH: As Union Membership Has Declined, Income Inequality Has Skyrocketed In The United States | ThinkProgress

No C.A. I hate you, or rather what you stand for. You suck big time. You do not deserve to live in this free country. You are scum, you and those like you. What RTW does is allow irresponsible people like you to free ride the benefits and wages of a union without paying. It is sort of like living in this country and not wanting to pay taxes. It is that way with all you scum.

John,

You mean like that 47%?? This is no different...those that can't (or won't) pay shouldn't be forced to pay...it's that simple. If those rank and file members see the benefit then its in their best interest to pay their membership dues. What is the union afraid of?? Afraid that the majority of its membership wouldn't pay it's dues? Afraid that they if they lose their stranglehold on its rank and file that their house of cards fall? Let me ask you this, when was the last time you saw a union president reveal how much he makes? How much does the union spend on political contributions? Where is their accounting of its members dues? No one is prohibiting someone from still paying to their union. Perhaps you should re-read this legislation again. Nowhere does it forbid people to still pay their union dues....and if the union were wise enough they would be making a case to EVERY member now the value that they provide for its members. If the members were to see value, wouldn't logic dictate that they would pay their obligations to the union? It sounds to me that the union is very worried that if you let people CHOOSE to pay for a service (union representation) they would find their revenue stream dwindle to nothing. That should be a good clue that they unions are well loved by it's rank and file. Why else would they be all up in arms?

congress does not need the president to help them look bad.

@LosMan: Wrong. When someone buys a new car what do they do? They negotiate a price, correct?

Well, the President negotiated, then Boehner countered. What should happen next is for the President to re-counter.

The President didn't do that. What does he do instead? He goes on social media and tells the American people that Congress just says no to everything. Sorry but Obama is wrong.

He needs to look up the word "negotiate". Its what happens between two groups and the two groups go back and forth and go back and forth and go back and forth until a deal is reached.

You don't just stop after the first try and then criticize the other person to make him look bad. This is what Obama did.

Think of it this way - in RTW state, I get paid for the value I bring to my employer. If I bring more value, I get a raise, if I don't, I am gone and someone else who provides value fills my spot. Capitalism and competition to be the best and attract the best. In a non-RTW state, you get a salary negotiated based on a pooled volume of employees, not on the value your employees bring to the table. So yes, perhaps you get paid a few percentage more than me because of this price fixing, but the question you should ask is where does that extra percentage in your paycheck come from???

It comes from the inefficient, expensive delivery of products and services, hurting EVERYONE else but you. Is that the "fairness" you are all going for? Because the reality is, that model is not sustainable and cannot be applied across the board.

Right to work for less and less and less laws have lowered the wage and benefits for all workers in the states they have passed them and that includes middle management as well. I just landed in McAllen, TX Texas has a median income of $11.20 an hour I made more than that with full benefits as a union Grocery Clerk for the Kroger company in 1982, I don't think I will find 30 year old prices to go along with those 30 year old wages here in TX. What happened to personal capitalism, why is the idea and ability to make a decent profit only for the owners these days, people should always have the right to bargain for the best deal for themselves and make a personal profit from their labor isn't that capitalism. You think a business organization would let a business that was not a member have the advantages they may provide if they did not pay the dues or fees of belonging to the organization.

John in Battlecreek.

Being part of a Union is a mixed blessing, just as not being part of a Union is a mixed blessing.

While a union negotiates wages and benefits, it does not mean that the non-union gain every benefit. Typically non-union may get the same vacation, the same insurance, but the pay is typically less in the gross amount, and yet higher in the net amount a union employee may get. The big minus on not being a union member is no Union pension usually. But, then again I know people the unions tried to cheat or did cheat someone out of their pension.

I think it better that employees have a choice.

Twisted left wing logic once again spewing BS... Unions have sucked thelife out of our economy with their overzealous and greedy demands... why did jobs migrate overseas???

Pigotry: yes you are! Fisty: Same ol' socialist diarhea! PatrioticAmerican: ??? Really??? What a bunch of tools....

askaboutet

Thank you for replying - okay. so to be honest, after reading your post, maybe I am not quite understanding exactly what the law does - what is the freeloading that the non-union people will be doing?

So-called "right to work" means that people who don't pay union dues can get all of the benefits that unions bargain for on behalf of their dues-paying members. The more workers who decide to join the company without becoming union members, the less funding the union has, and it eventually dies. That's what has happened in most of the "right to work" states in the past. The unions go away and then the workers' pay and benefits go down, which benefits corporations and the Republican Party which corporate America owns.

Also, when you say "no," what would you say they're saying, then? Aren't they against the right to work when you're not in a union?

What they're saying is that if you don't want to join a union, you've got a right to work for some company that isn't unionized. For instance, you could move to Bangladesh and work in a non-union garment factory for $70 a month and risk getting dying when the place catches on fire. You'd have to be REALLY anti-union to go along with that.

No C.A. I hate you, or rather what you stand for. You suck big time. You do not deserve to live in this free country.

you dont know what i stand for and as for living in this free country, interesting how you think I don't DESERVE to live in it. Yes i hear this a lot from progressive commie libs that think they have more skin in the game because, like you come out with some hate speech, zero facts and claim to be all knowledgable. The days of unions controlling states is coming to end (CHANGE), you want one fine no one is taking that right away. I also should have the right to NOT join if I dont feel like it. Hypocritical left calling the right control freaks but the left wants to tell you what you can say, where to work, what to eat, how and when to have health care, etc etc.

Its people like you and Feisty and a whole host of others in here that are a blight on society.

Forrest Grump 2.0

You think a business organization would let a business that was not a member have the advantages they may provide if they did not pay the dues or fees of belonging to the organization.

Excellent point, but you forgot the question mark at the end of your question. Not that that would get an answer from the right wingers. They know that the answer to you question is: "HELL NO". But they've got a different standard for the corporate masters of the universe that they worship and the working people that they despise.

dave-735909

Typical Democrat nonsense and hate speech

Typical republican pointless and meaningless response.

No, Dave, because if you have been paying attention, it is only Republicans that can be accused of hate speech. But John in Battle Creek, Feisty, and the rest of the raving lefties on these (MS)NBC posts are the ones full of vitriolic responses to rational conservative posters. As many have pointed out, RTW is simply giving employees the option to not be a part of the bargaining unit. But the union thugs (and you, John, Feisty, et al) don't want to miss any opportunity to keep the employees' dues to use for their political preferences.

Read the rules in a "union" shop, then read "Harrison Bergerand". Could it open your eyes? Nah, what difference does it make if your eyes are open or not, when you're blind?

Caesar Augustus-

...or the drain on society by being forced to pay union dues.

What drain on society? Who's forced to pay union dues? You don't want to pay dues...go work for crappy wages at the non-union shop.

*

I reckon it's their business. They probably have too many businesses and jobs already. And hey, Texas could use some more.

Sorry pal, you don't control me OR when/where I comment... ;o)

and yet you feel compelled to be hypocrite and think you own this place. Interesting you think no one should post here except the communist wing of the DNC. Fortunately the nations far left unhinged loons congregate here and that is an infinitesimal of the country's populace. While you(fringe left) may have the numbers here, the rest of the nation doesnt view the country as myopic as you and your low info ilk.

RTW is simply giving employees the option to not be a part of the bargaining unit. But the union thugs (and you, John, Feisty, et al) don't want to miss any opportunity to keep the employees' dues to use for their political preferences.

What a crock. Employees have always had the option to work for a non-union shop. The problem is that the employer has trouble getting employees for crap wages so RTW allows them to bust the unions. That way all employees get to earn crappy wages, improving the bottom line and management bonuses. It doesn't improve employee options, it destroys them.

As to your "Union thugs" comment; "as opposed to companies "forcing" their employees to contribute to the owner's political preference? Some thugs wear 3 piece suits.

It's obvious to me, Feisty Redhead, that you apparently do not have a job or, if you do, it's a union job where you have nothing to in your featherbedded world than camp out on the nbcnews web site. This from another feist redhead.

Union Dues by law can not be used for political purposes that has been the law for as long as I can remember. All monies that are collected for political action are collected separately and voluntarily. Union dues can only be used for the operating expenses of the union. Nobody wants to seem to believe that but it is the truth and the law and has been so for many many years. If you wish to see the details of a local unions expenditures and revenue you look up their LM2 report it is a matter of public record. Do you know any companies who's financial details are a matter of public record? United you bargain, divided you beg. People can knock unions all they want but my union membership provided me with a standard of living, health care coverage for my family and a retirement fund I would almost certainly have not attained without the ability to collectively bargain. I paid 2% of my gross in union dues and made on average 38% more in wages and fringes than a non counterpart in my industry, thats a hell of a return on my investment. So I will say it again united you bargain divided you beg.

Even better old-doc, don't work at all, obama will be happy for you to be on welfare. Welfare folks vote democratic as well.

I don't know what you stand for C.A. I have read your idiotic post for months now, you stand for screwing the middle class, you stand for taking even more from the poor so people a lot richer then you can get even richer, you stand against the American worker. You want to destroy them. I hate all of that. You suck big time and are a scap on this country.

While you(fringe left) may have the numbers here, the rest of the nation doesnt view the country as myopic as you and your low info ilk.

Amazing, a FOX ditto head referring to ANYONE as "low info ilk". Do I need to cite the FOX News viewer studies...all six of them? As to what the country does or does not view...Need I remind you Obama was reelected?

Co man, what gives you any more rights then I got? screw you without the kiss.

What drain on society? Who's forced to pay union dues? You don't want to pay dues...go work for crappy wages at the non-union shop.

if I got hired at GM sure I would have to. nice try Doc. How bout teachers unions and their adamance on tenure vs productivity. You sound like a union slug anyways. I dont work for a union and i make good money. Of course i have to be more productive in order to move up, not based on my seniority. If I out shine my peers guess what, that affords me the opportunity to advance. I want to hear the argument why jobs have to force people into a union if they work for a particular company. WHat a control freak DOC or should I say HYPOCRITE!!!!

John in Battle Creek

I don't know what you stand for C.A. I have read your idiotic post for months now, you stand for screwing the middle class, you stand for taking even more from the poor so people a lot richer then you can get even richer, you stand against the American worker. You want to destroy them. I hate all of that. You suck big time and are a scap on this country.

kinda stupid to screw myself oh thats right i vote against myself interest. Funny I have yet to see Obama or the merryband of thieves work for my interest. I am middle class and an American worker and Vet. YOu are hardly more American than I am. You are a progressive leech on society. YOu want someone to provide welfare your lazy azz. American exceptionalism goes by the wayside because your fringe left thinking friends want to encourage malaise and mediocracy. You try to force me to believe this is now the acceptable way of life. Go live in Cuba if you think Communism is great.

It's obvious to me, Feisty Redhead, that you apparently do not have a job or, if you do, it's a union job

How cute, another "Miss Cleo" chimes in... lol

Don't quit your "day" job, if you have one!

IWonder-932455

Even better old-doc, don't work at all, obama will be happy for you to be on welfare. Welfare folks vote democratic as well.

So do a hell of a lot of us who have worked all our lives. Over 46 years so far for me, including over 20 years serving this Country in uniform. Speaking of welfare, you know those "Obamaphones" you boys love to bring up? Know who instituted that program? Ronald Reagan in 1985.

Amazing, a FOX ditto head referring to ANYONE as "low info ilk".

sure old doc. Seems like you need a nap. see the thing is, i hear the term low info ilk come from the lefty posters at FR.

Need I remind you Obama was reelected

and im sure you have relevant point to stating that. your shortsighted views are a decay of western society.

Caesar Augustus-

if I got hired at GM sure I would have to. nice try Doc.

You don't have to work for a Union company. Go ahead and work a Wal-Mart. Think how proud your corporate master would be.

How bout teachers unions and their adamance on tenure vs productivity.

Ah...let's attack teachers again. Little Miss Evans, the home room teacher and union thug...now she strikes fear in the hearts of Republicons. As to tenure...I understand that Wal-Mart doesn't think much of tenure either.

I want to hear the argument why jobs have to force people into a union if they work for a particular company. WHat a control freak DOC or should I say HYPOCRITE!!!!

What is wrong with your comprehension? Unions don't force people to work for union companies. RTW States destroy unions which limit employees options for better wages. No unions...low wages...lower demand...destroyed economy.

Not very bright are you?

I am an independent and don't want to be forced to pay union dues. Especially when they are used to support a candidate I dont support.

A right to work state does not mean cheaper products what it does mean is lower wages for the blue collar worker and higher income for the wealthy.

GOP is playing in quicksand trying to setup Chinese labor camps in the U.S.A. by killing American Unions, these Loonies are going down 2014 !!!!!!!!!!!

Caesar Augustus-

sure old doc. Seems like you need a nap. see the thing is, i hear the term low info ilk come from the lefty posters at FR.

Then my reference to ditto head was accurate. Normally only parrots or FOX viewers simply repeat what they've heard. You really should look into those news studies...just google "uninformed FOX viewers".

Your shortsighted views are a decay of western society.

I'm flattered you give my influence so much credit...I really can't say the same for you...sorry.

Forrest: yep, couldn't agree more. The dues go into my health and welfare and pension accounts. Far and away the best investment I've ever made, even better than my house - which I was able to afford because I make union scale. When the great recession hit, I and my colleagues were in a great position, since our retirement was not riding in the wall street casino. A few employers asked for a renegotiation based on the new economic outlook, and our membership voted in some pay cuts to keep them afloat, because we all know that we only do well when our employers do well. They're all doing fine now, thanks, no employer went out of business.

I always enjoy talking to new workers who came from RTW states. They are so amazed that there still exist places where their skills and a strong work ethic can lead to a middle-class existence. Most of them thought they would never be able to afford a house. And a pension? How many non-union folk have those anymore? Good health care as a fringe benefit (as long as you make enough per year)? It's like a dream to them.

What most people don't get is that the union does not and has never limited the amount of money you can earn. The individual is always free to negotiate more money from the employer, if the employer thinks the extra cost is worth that employee's skills or aptitude. The union only limits the downside, to keep you from getting less than the going rate for your skills. The dues you pay are a pittance next to what you get just in increased income, let alone the solid benefits you get.

All of you who want the freedom to continue living in your apartment and working until you go on medicare, have fun. Those of you who want to join the middle class, might consider moving to a union state.

Ant1369

I am an independent and don't want to be forced to pay union dues. Especially when they are used to support a candidate I dont support.

And none of us want to work for poverty wages, lousy benefits and in unsafe working conditions; nor do we want to support your candidate...so I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Then Anti, don't go to work for a company that has a union, as ol' doc said go work for Walmart. That way I can help support you by buying your food stamps.

What? I thought you libs were all about helping each other out and sharing the wealth and now you want to complain if I get a job with bennies and don't join your union? I'm shocked!!! You want to complain about me taking a job for less - which will certainly pay more than unemployment or NO job! How different it is when the hand is in YOUR pocket for a change!

RTW States destroy unions which limit employees options for better wages. No unions...low wages...lower demand...destroyed economy.

im sure you have some proof where RTW states disallow unions. Im sure you do. comprehension you say. NO ONE IS TAKING AWAY THE RIGHT TO HAVE A UNION. you see if i have an engineering degree and lets say my background is with automobiles and I live in MI why on Earth would i work for Walmart? Do they make cars? Why cant i say go work for GM without being in a union. Please answer that. I suspect its more political then practical ol' dotore

I would really love to know why some of the bigger right-wing wackos on here think calling those of us who are left-leaning and voted for President Obama Commies. I think a more accurate term would be Socialists. I really don't think most of the folks in the Country (right or left) wake up every morning being afraid of the Red Menace like we used to. It is kind of like those on the right who claimed the Black Panthers (all 3 of them) intimidated Republicans at the polling places. It kind of ages you guys and makes me think you still watch re-runs of Leave it to Beaver and The Rifleman and smoke Lucky Strike and take Geritol. As a fellow poster said so eloquently (I paraphrase) -

--gingerly dip your toes into the 21st century pond.

I think a more accurate term would be Socialists.

Kim,

Shhh - don't confuse these right wing nitwits!

They're baffled enough already by history and FACTS! lol

Then they wonder why they are perceived as STUCK ON STUPID!

Just more bull@!$%# from the Bull@!$%#ter in Chief.

C.A. you are to stupid for words. You want the benefits of working for union company, then pay for it, you stinking scab.

You are absolutely corret Snakebone my union always allowed the employer to pay an employee above scale if they wished to, they just could not pay below scale, people who say that belonging to a union limits those with extraordinary talent or drive from making more than scale really have no clue as to how it actually works. Another big misconception is that the public is forced to pay more, my employers had to be the low bidder to get the contract and yet they were able to pay their employees a fair wage and benefits. You think it is because they had a lazy no talent work force? Quite the opposite they are great American businessman who bring a quality product to the public as the low bidder, because they rely on the best trained and most peoductive workforce, and because they are willing to share a fair slice of the profits with the people that produce those profits for them. I'll tell you something else all these naysyaers about unions if we or our employers advertised job openings at $54.00 an hour wage and fringe package these same people would line up around the block to try and land that job. My experience for over 30 years is that the people that complain the most about unions are the ones who are working pitifully cheap, my doctor, my lawyer, and people that make decent money would not dream of doing what I had to do for a mere 50 bucks an hour. It';s always some guy that makes 12 bucks an hour that thinks a guy with a toolbox and a union card is somehow headed for Beverly Hills, those people now equate a living wage and some benefits as being more than the system can bear but will simultaneously defend Mitt Romney's ability to make $57,000 a day (and he has not had a job in years) and pay half the percentage in taxes than I do. Sooner or later you would think they would get tired of being screwed, but so far many just bend over and say thank you sir may I have another. Nobody can help these people until they decide to help themselves, that is what a union is, it is not some mysterious entity, it is simply a bunch of regular working folks that have decided to look out for themselves and the man standing next to them, it is as American as apple pie.

John in Battle Creek

C.A. you are to stupid for words.

im sure Battleboy, considering the extended vocabulary you have, i might just be in your world.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

I think a more accurate term would be Socialists.

Kim,

Shhh - don't confuse these right wing nitwits!

They're baffled enough already by history and FACTS! lol

this is too precious coming from Peg Bundy. Hey Fisty care to splain where socialism falls on the spectrum of communism. Im sure you do

as for history, yeah you demonstrated so soundly your firm grasp on that subject earlier mein Frau.

[...you dont know what i stand for and as for living in this free country, interesting how you think I don't DESERVE to live in it.]

Meanwhile, in post #1.47, Little Seizure says:

I'll pitch in to help you get to Cuba. Hey dont forget to write.

Oh the hypocrisy! But you're all about the hypocrite, right Little Seizure?

Sure you are...look in the mirror.

My how far you have fallen, oh Great Caesar...hey if you're jealous, just join a union. Simple as that. Don't be pissed that someone makes more than you...oh, I forgot... you make "more than $250,000"...LOL..

PIZZA! PIZZA!

Feisty - Amazing, don't you agree? I try to picture the life some of these folks live and I imagine a dark basement with light bulbs screwed into ceiling sockets; a single bed and a Farah Fawcett poster on the wall. Geeze!

Ceasar:

"Why cant i say go work for GM without being in a union"

Really? You have to ask that? Why can't you take a dump in the public pool? You haven't figured that out yet?

I'm beginning to see a common thread on economic issues: conservatives are the ones demanding the freedom to screw it up for everyone else.

You want to undercut me so that both of us live in poverty? Thanks but no thanks. Get the skills to compete with mine and then come make some real money.

Caesar Augustus-

im sure you have some proof where RTW states disallow unions. Im sure you do. comprehension you say. NO ONE IS TAKING AWAY THE RIGHT TO HAVE A UNION.

Sure you are, you're just using the back door. If I have a company and pay my union workers $25/hr and you move in next door and pay your non-union workers $10/hr, and under cut my prices based on your labor costs...you destroy a union shop, thereby getting rid of a union. Now good paying jobs have been replaced by low paying jobs and the entire local economy suffers. You should be familiar with this principle...it's how WalMart has put so many local businesses out of business.

you see if i have an engineering degree and lets say my background is with automobiles and I live in MI why on Earth would i work for Walmart? Do they make cars? Why cant i say go work for GM without being in a union. Please answer that.

I'd be happy to. If your degree is engineering, you would be hired as management or technical professional, not union labor, but thank you for playing dumb. I'm sure it impressed everyone.

I suspect its more political then practical ol' dotore

Did that sound political to you?

I try to picture the life some of these folks live and I imagine a dark basement with light bulbs screwed into ceiling sockets; a single bed and a Farah Fawcett poster on the wall. Geeze!

Kim,

You forgot hairy backs and filthy BVD's while sitting in their Barco-Lounger swilling their Budweiser, chomping on the Cheeto's with the two teeth they have left and scratching their nasty asses... lol

Why do you right wingers want to take the rights away from the owners? You know the job creators? You know the 1% you guys are always so worried about. Don't you think they are going to be pissed that you are taking away their right to decide whether or not they run a closed shop. You do know that under existing law, whether or not a shop is "open" or "closed" is subject to an agreement between the union and the ownership, don't you? Why would you take this valuable negotiating tool away from the owner and limit his or her right to run his or her business the way he/she chooses?

Ha, Little Seizure, now that is funny as hell.

[Ha, Little Seizure, now that is funny as hell.]

PIZZA! PIZZA!

[Ha, Little Seizure, now that is funny as hell.]

Mickey,

Since I have the douche-bag on ignore, would you be so kind to translate what could possibly be funny coming from the little prick? ;o)

I could use a good laugh...

And Feisty forgot, watching the Fox rodeo on his 13 inch b and W. tv and telling the wife to bring him another bud.

NJRichie

What? I thought you libs were all about helping each other out and sharing the wealth and now you want to complain if I get a job with bennies and don't join your union? I'm shocked!!! You want to complain about me taking a job for less - which will certainly pay more than unemployment or NO job! How different it is when the hand is in YOUR pocket for a change!

Ah...more Republicon false equivalency. You imply you're only choice is a lousy wage job or unemployment...you really are a true TeaPublican. If your RTW State hadn't driven away the Union shops and your Republican tax break for off-shoring hadn't shipped your job overseas...perhaps you'd simply be bitching about other people collecting unemployment...not collecting it yourself.

And Feisty forgot, watching the Fox rodeo on his 13 inch b and W. tv

You're right John, I forgot all about the aluminum foil & rabbit ears! lmao

Ah...more Republicon false equivalency.

Ol Doc - it is all they have left in their bag of dirty tricks...

The only thing these neutered, despicable, mongrels are capable of is nipping at forward thinking progressives ankles! lol

I enjoy punting them about 57 yards... then sticking it up their asses!

Hey Ceasar, tell me again, who were our allies during World War II, the commies or the fascists? Who did we fight again? Oh yeah, we agreed with the Soviets, the radical right wing extremists were the bigger threat!

Feisty - The women have a huge bottle of Jean Nate' in the moldy shower stall and the guys wear English Leather and Sansabelt slacks and sport a great comb-over.

CA didn't say anything other than his usual crap.

ah but Mickey, ill explain slowly. Battleboy said he was liking communism more and more. I suggested he move to Cuba, you know the great Communist utopia and I offered to pitch in.

Don't be pissed that someone makes more than you..

not at all and if you bothered to read my posts, which you do with great joy, you would see i commend those that do. You see Mickey I havent created this war on the 2%er's. Thats the new left bad guys, went from 1% to 2%. Sure people make money illegally. People deal drugs too and thats illegal. and they do about the same amount of time in prison. Im sure you had a point to your empty-headed rant Mickey. BTW i dont make 250K, im not rich like Obama thinks those guys are. Hey Mickey while I have your limited attention, please define the 'fair share'. Who am I kidding, no one knows anything about you and yet you have the answers oh wise Oracle. catch ya on the flip side pal.

Feisty if im a douche bag care to tell us what you are. cute sending Mongo to do your heavy lifting. Thats ok Capn Kimmy has your back. Im not offended by the resident lower roselle trailer trash. enjoy the 'ignore' feature coward

The women have a huge bottle of Jean Nate' in the moldy shower stall and the guys wear English Leather and Sansabelt slacks and sport a great comb-over

Kim,

To this day, I can NOT stand the smell of Jean Nate', although I thank you for the memories! lol

CA didn't say anything other than his usual crap.

Wouldn't expect anything less from my #1 leg humper!

THANK YOU JESUS for the IGNORE feature!

ah well look at all the tolerance. Forrest Hump, Mongo Mickey and the Trailer Park trash Fisty. What an allstar team there. Look at how many it takes for little ol me. Kinda like the coward gangbangers.

Dave, lets see if the commies were such good friends to the US then how come only have of Berlin was free. Lets see in 1941 the Japanese were allied with Germany and on Dec 7 1941 the Japs decided they wanted war, a few days later the Germans declared war on the US. The Germans also were at war with the commies. not that hard to figure out who was on whose side. Hey Dave, how old are you? 18? you wouldnt remember the cold war. Hang your hat on the right is Nazi like. Except Nazi's' were anti capitalist and wanted to remove guns, just like the progressives. Godwin law everytime baby

Hey, somebody speaking my language! Nice to meet you Forrest, seen you around.

That's the point Ceasar. The commies weren't our friends, but we knew the fascists were worse. We never trusted or liked the Soviets. Before the war even ended the race for Berlin was on. Mussolini was hardly anti-capitalist. In fact he referred to his particular brand of fascism as corporatism and immediately outlawed the unions. We all know how that worked out for him. Under fascism the corporation rapidly becomes the state, and the state rapidly becomes the corporation. As far as my age, I haven't been asked for my ID in a long time, but let me just say, I remember doing fall-out drills on the floor of my elementary school. Later on I took an interest in history. I know quite about the cold war. At the time, however, we recognized the threat of the right was worse!

Ole_Doc

The fact is that I am not unemployed and have not been unemployed. the only time I was ever out of work and making a @!$%# wage was when I worked for a union shop in MICHIGAN. New Jersey does just fine without unions and has for years. FYI I am not a Republican, nor do I see much difference between Republican and Democrat policies. I work for a living and I provide for my family and myself. I believe that the system we have now is NOT working and neither will the socialist system that you and your friends espouse. We ALL need to take accountability for ourselves and keep our liberty intact and that liberty does not include putting YOU before my family or myself. It does not include the government taking anything from me and giving it to others. Americans have a right of choice which is slowly being removed from us by an ever increasing government that wants to control everything and i'll be damned if i'll ever give up my freedom to choose so some social democratic anti-colonialist bastard can implement HIS idea of a utopian society. Don't agree with me? that's your right. Better exercise it while you still can. Jobs went overseas because companies could no longer sustain the union wages being pressed on them and still make a profit.

or the drain on society by being forced to pay union dues. Again ignorance looks good on you

You keep that up, Nauseus Maximus, 2014 is waiting for the GOP!

It's understandable that some of you see this legislature as simply a matter of giving the worker greater choice. For those of you that have always worked for much less in "right to work" states, you have no experience or knowledge about unions. It may seem a reasonable proposal at first glance.

If it is as reasonable as proposed, then why is it being rushed and forced through the back door by a lame duck Congress WITH a rider attached that makes it impossible to repeal? That fact alone tells all of us that there is something rotten brewing in Lansing, Michigan. Others of you vigorously defending this action know damned well what it is all about.

We had what was called "The Industrial Revolution" shortly before and after the turn of the 20th century. The cry for strong backs, quick hands and busy elbows reverberated throughout the nation. It was answered with a resounding response from a very hard working American populace eager for steady and promising jobs.

As that demand was met, very wealthy and powerful corporations began to emerge where the sky was the limit. Great monopolies formed from all of that wealth and power to defeat the free market. Prices were fixed and out of reach for many. Wages were first frozen and later reduced to a pittance of their former worth. Working conditions deteriorated to the point that debilitating injuries and death become common occupational hazards.

Your boss became your lord and master. If you couldn't produce enough in an 80 hour work week, he demanded the services of your wife and children. Many parents buried young sons and daughters that were victims of working in hazardous plants and factories built of rickety wood and filled with flammable or explosive materials.

These are not tall tales or exaggerations. Everything above is easily substantiated by simply reading recorded American history. Everything above is the perfect example of unregulated capitalism in it's finest hour. What changed all of this(that now seems to be a tale of horror and shame best forgotten)?

By golly, it was that dreaded and evil big United States government that first broke up the monopolies and forced a return to a fair and competitive free market. A "free market" FORCED to provide both competitive prices and wages by simple supply and demand. That same "evil" government entity outlawed child labor and established regulations to demand that all employers provide safe working places and safe working practices for all of their now adult employees.

In the woodwork of the halls of all of the major plants and factories lurked a horrible monster called "unions". They suddenly sprung out unanimously to terrorize the corporate heads, owners, management and employees to viciously destroy business. Oh wait, it didn't happen that way at all. These are indeed tall tales perpetuated by industrial leaders and their highly paid prostitutes in Congress (and several statehouses).

As the Industrial Revolution grew, even with the new laws and regulations, many industries again grew to gigantic proportions. A plant or two of this size in a single city employed a majority of the city's workers. Again the wealth, power and greed of these industries allowed them to shrink wages and extend hours to intolerable lengths. Unions were born of brave employees that realized the power of large numbers acting in unison could level the playing field to restore fair wages, benefits and reasonable hours. Many of them paid horrible prices for their valiant efforts. We can thank these brave workers for many of the things we take for granted today.

Without them, the 40 hour work week, minimum pay, benefits, vacation time, lunch breaks and over-time pay would all be pipe-dreams. Those that actively condemn government regulations on big business and unions promise to take us back to better times. I accurately described those "better times" before government regulations and unions. I don't want to go back. Do you?

Well now old-doc, let me see, I started paying social security when I was thirteen, I had been working on a farm years before that, retired when I was seventy one. Now let me see, seventy one take away thirteen is fifty one, right? So what.

I cannot imagine how anyone with as many as two brain cells could be a democrat or a republican. Of the two, republicans are not smart enough to do as much damage.

Well njrichie, you are right to a point. Unions were not the only reason our industry left. Yes they were a factor and yes the liberals were mostly at fault with their regulating, taxation and minimum wage. Minimum wage is the biggest sleeper. It automatically increases but before it can do the earners any good, its inflation takes any gain away. It does not help the poor but it does hurt the middle class and rich. Happily it does lots of good for china and many other third world countries and that probably makes the liberals happy.

As for me, a heartless conservative, I could not care less about china and the others. The thing that is baffling to me is how anyone can not understand that an increase in minimum wage drives up the cost of everything from hamburgers to corvettes. 2+2=4 by any math that I know of.

Excuse me please, seventy one take away thirteen is fifty eight. Oh well, I can still handle 2+2.

I noticed that beyonce is getting fifty million! Sports people get millions, singers? I say, more power to them. How do you liberals spin that?

Come to think of it obama's statement might cover it, they didn't make it. They were born with special talents, size, creativeness, whatever. I was not, I've always had to use every day abilities. Good on them, I am happy with my life as well.

Nice to meet you Snakebone, sorry about the late reply I just arrived in a town strange to me, and had to pick an engineer colleague of mine up at the airport, and then we had some diner at the restaurant in his hotel, I just got back to my hotel and thought I would check in on FR. I have been a union man for over 30 thirty years, can't say anything bad about it, it benefited me greatly, it gave me the income and security to start my own small business based on some patents I developed, my industry experience and the inovations I brought to it eventually led to the management position I now have. I make more now to do less than I ever did but nobody here will complain about that because now I am management and were a jacket and tie instead of work clothes. I never begrudge the people who work for me the wages and benefits they earn, they deserve every penny they are paid. I am one of the few if not the only manager that often takes their side when it is the right thing to do, other managers often just bitch and moan and blame everything on labor, I will make my bonus every quarter, many of them will not. Truth is the people who produce the product that brings the cash in the door are seldom at fault, they just work within the system provided to them, most of the problems I see start with bad decisions at the top, but most companies seldom want to hear that. I am fortunate to work for a CEO who wants to get to the truth when things don't go well and fix the problem, even when executive decisions are part of the problem, but that is why this company is kicking it's competition's asses, because they make a serious attempt to treat situations and people in the company with honesty, and fairness, and they pay them well for their efforts.

What was funny Feisty was Mickey's term "Little Seizure" that tickled me.

Obama is trying to capitalize on the justifiable resentment of the Right to Work law among the public but he and the Democratic Party put very little or no resources into fighting it.

Probably this is a preparatory PR move because he is getting ready to collaborate with the Republicans on slashing entitlements as a part of the phony "Fiscal Cliff" campaign .

Here's a good illustration of the Democrats:

http://www.dropshots.com/GCaplan#date/2012-12-10/20:43:38

As a proud member of Local 333 Mail Handler Union, and a former teamster, I live and work in Iowa, a right to work state. It's not as bad as some would have you believe. Most people will join the Union, because they know as I know collective bargaining, and the same rules for craft employees is fair. I have nothing against those who do not choose to join the Unions, or support them, it is their choice. However I see it as unwise as you give up your right to vote for a contract, and you risk alienating some Union members who pay to protect you when you have a grievance with management. For myself, there are many reasons for someone not to want to join a union, and I also feel it is their right.

I am a supporter of President Obama, but this is something I must disagree with him on. I feel strongly that if a person can do the job, joining a union and paying dues should be a choice, not a requirement. If the union does their job well, the great majority of people will join because it's the right thing to do, the smart thing to do. It should be their choice however, they may have valid reasons for not wanting to join.

The Democratic Party supports unions and lawyers. One is responsible for the loss of millions of jobs as corporations moved overseas to avoid the gangster tactics used against them. Unions over reach, and they protect workers that otherwise should be fired. Anyone that has ever worked in a union shop knows that some workers don't put forth their best efforts because they don't have to. Lawyers are the reason everything costs more, and to a large degree healthcare. Democrats support a group of people that get paid if they win, and paid if they lose. Sounds like a union shop. This pretend party of the people is more responsible for job losses in this country through burdensome regulations, unfettered union support, NAFTA, and a free ride for sue happy lawyers. Democrats are forcing people to buy healthcare, forcing them to join unions, and never once taking into account if it is in the best interest of the individual.

Unions aren't perfect but they are necessary.

Read history-- and look at present day practices-- if you don't think corporate leaders wouldn't and don't exploit their workers.

There will always be a tug of war between labor and management in some companies, and the outcome that serves both best is fair and open negotiations.

Unions did not send jobs overseas, ridiculously cheap labor is why products are made overseas, you think you can compete with the 35 cents an hour Chinese workers get to make Apple products, be serious. Remember when Bush said people hate us for our freedom, they don't hate us for our freedom they hate us because we use their children as slaves, they hate us because they watch their child walk out of a Nike plant barefoot.

I try to picture the life some of these folks live and I imagine a dark basement with light bulbs screwed into ceiling sockets; a single bed and a Farah Fawcett poster on the wall. Geeze!

Kim,

You forgot hairy backs and filthy BVD's while sitting in their Barco-Lounger swilling their Budweiser, chomping on the Cheeto's with the two teeth they have left and scratching their nasty asses... lol

Stereotype much? You forgot the KKK membership, racist, xenophobic, bigot... am I missing any other liberal spin for non-liberals?

How about a software engineer college graduate working 10 hours a day to support his wife and son, pay the mortgage/truck payment. Has friends of different race, work mates of different race. Straight friend, gay friends, emo/goth friends, redneck friends, etc.

See, unlike you, I don't judge according to race/religion/politics. I don't think all liberals are stupid. I have a good friend here at work that is a liberal and black, him and I talk (civilly) quite often about politics. I don't think Fiesty and the rest are stupid because they're liberal, I think they're stupid because they don't think for themselves.

But continue on stereotyping, just make sure and pull your head out of the sand once in awhile to breathe... or don't....

Are you for freedom or not? If you say you are for freedom then a law that grants freedom you should support. If you do not support a law that grants freedom then you are clearly NOT for freedom. So those that do not like RTW laws are the real people wanting to enslave everyone. Either follow the union or your of no value. That is what I keep hearing. Are the GOP using this to break the unions? Maybe but why should that matter? If the union was of a real value then there would be need for mandatory membership. And as for the idea that those that don't join are freeloaders that is bullocks. I will give an example that will also show why I am so much against unions. I had a great job that was making good money. Someone in our offices decided we needed to be union to "fix" our low pay. No problem except that they did not listen to reason and went forth with the union before it could be arranged with the contracts and company to find ways to pay for the new wages. I lost my good job because union greed and short sightedness. If they had waited and worked WITH the company I might still have my job. Oh yes the increased wages would have been great but they did not do me any good. And as for the higher wages if unions had not pushed wages so high the cost of things would not be so high so higher wages would not be needed. Unions think that having a job is a right and that they are owed a job and a high pay. Those of us that LIKE RTW understand our pay is based on our value and contribution. I can get as big a raise as I want if I work for it. Another example: My current job is not union because a group of us decided NOT to join the union when it was formed. That was great because like before no one listened to me to wait and form at the right time. Again the contract ended and ALL those that had joined lost half their wages because they had to negotiation with a new company. Guess what? I got a raise out of it because I could do any work that was needed. I was not restricted to what the union said I could do. I was free to work. That is what RTW is all about. No lets see someone state I am wrong after I lived through the reality of this. You cannot argue with real events. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

Caesar Augustus-

Except Nazi's' were anti capitalist and wanted to remove guns, just like the progressives. Godwin law everytime baby

Since you seem to be an adherent of Godwin's law...at least properly charactorize the Nazis. The were anything but anti capitalist. Their financing was derived from German "Captains of Industry" (a little like the candidates of a certain party in this country). They provided those capitalists with nearly unlimited forced labor and huge profits in return for building the Nazi war machine. They destroyed the unions increasing profitability for the corporations. Near the end of the war they assisted the Corporate heads in moving money out of the country.

You the way, the Nazis didn't pass a gun control law until 1938 to prevent non-citizens, Jews and Communists from owning guns. The earlier gun control law was passed by the Weimar government to prevent Communists and Nazis from owing guns....it wasn't implemented and the Nazis used the law to campaign against the Weimer government. A little like the NRA.

You didn't get your Nazi Germany orientation via FOX News did you?

Obama owes the Unions big time, so he needs to show his support for the union fascist thugs that decide who may or may not work, and extract their tribute from those they allow to work. Unions are a cancer.

NJRichie

FYI I am not a Republican

If you say so Richie...it's your story, tell it any way you like.

Wet Willy

Obama owes the Unions big time, so he needs to show his support for the union fascist thugs that decide who may or may not work, and extract their tribute from those they allow to work. Unions are a cancer.

Yo genius...I suggest you learn a little about both unions and fascists before you shoot off your mouth and show your ass.

1. The Nazis came to power in Germany financed by German Industrialists. They provided those German Capitalists with forced labor which increased their profitability while building the Nazi war machine. They destroyed the unions.

2. A quote from Benito Mussolini: "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."

Does any of that sound the least bit pro-labor to you? In fact, which party does it sound like?

Funny how your comment about unions seems to mirror the Nazi philosophy, isn't it?

Rick-3416939

The Democratic Party supports unions and lawyers. One is responsible for the loss of millions of jobs as corporations moved overseas to avoid the gangster tactics used against them. Unions over reach, and they protect workers that otherwise should be fired. Anyone that has ever worked in a union shop knows that some workers don't put forth their best efforts because they don't have to. Lawyers are the reason everything costs more, and to a large degree healthcare. Democrats support a group of people that get paid if they win, and paid if they lose. Sounds like a union shop. This pretend party of the people is more responsible for job losses in this country through burdensome regulations, unfettered union support, NAFTA, and a free ride for sue happy lawyers. Democrats are forcing people to buy healthcare, forcing them to join unions, and never once taking into account if it is in the best interest of the individual.

I'll bet your the most popular orator in the local "Beer Hall", aren't you? Really get those brown shirts red necks fired up.

Ol Doc 1.144

Giving me a history lesson, eh? I suggest you do a bit of research yourself on Hitler and how not only didn't he suppress unions but he employed unions to further his nazism. Do your own research instead of regurgitating union or leftist propaganda.

As for the Mussolini remark equating "Fascism with capitalism and called Corporatism, this is another myth of propaganda by the left because he never said it. There is no document or personal writings of Mussolini where such a statement can be found. In fact, much of his writings on this subject clearly contradict any such notion of corporatism.

I'm no genius but compared to you…. Well, all things are relative.

Wet Willy,

I'll grant you that the authenticity of the Mussolini quote is dubious at best but your comment about Hitler and labor unions is seriously misleading. The Nazis replaced the trade unions with the "German Labour Force" under Robert Ley. This placed organized labor under the direct control of the Nazi party removing all power to negotiate from them. Call it what you want but for all intents and purposes, he disbanded the unions.

Feisty,Neither you nor the NAZIcrat party have the right to force me to join a union if i don't want to.What part of I don't freedom of choice do you not understand?What's next?Are we all going to be forced to join the Democratic party in order to be allowed to vote?You speak of freedom but, you would readily take it from others who don't agree with you.Who gave you the right to pick and choose what choices are available to workers in America.I don't totally disagree with unions but i will fight you tooth and nail if you want to take away freedom of choice.

You're correct, wolfhound. You are welcome to keep looking for a job that is not union represented. Be our guest.

Ole_Doc

Why - because I disagree with you I must be a Republican? Must be nice to live in a fantasy world where everything is black or white....Republican Or Democrat. You go ahead and keep ignoring the existence of other parties and we'll sneak right up on you. Watch how many Libertarians fill seats in the mid term elections. A LOT of us people are sick and tired of the Bull$hlt that you and the other Liberal Democrats spew, and we see very little difference in the government policies implemented by Republicans. It seems that both parties have the same goal of more government, more control but just a different way of getting there.

Ol Doc - I think you are seriously confusing CA with the facts. The little man just can't handle facts. He yaks up tons crap but just disappears when someone hits him with the truth.

What's the truth that Feisty Redhead is related to Hanoi Jane?

Aww, cool. You got to use all your favorite words. They aren't true here in this case, but it's sweet to see you get to use them all together that way.

Larry please move to Costa Rica SOON

of course they are true. Obama lacks any familiarity with the concept of honesty; he was mentored from childhood by communists in his family and their circle of friends. He was elected to the Illinois State Senate as a member of a Socialist Party; the Democrat platform and policies mirror Section II The Proletariat key steps in the transition from capitalism to communism in the Commmunist Manifesto.

Marx said that unions were the central means of the revolution from capitalism to communism. They were formed by communists and most in the US still have communists in positions of leadership

Larry nailed it

Hey Larry,

Didn't you say you would leave the country if Obama secured another term?

Yes you did.

Just another of a long string of lies by you and your party that lacks integrity.

Well said "Larry"! You can't trust anything that comes out of that liars' lying lie hole. Many, if not all, of his fervent followers have no idea of where, or how the almighty bho "cut his political teeth". It's called reading people, and the information is all out there if you're willing to search for it.

ProBusiness: The people who don't like UNIONS have never worked for one.

Unions are the "VOICE OF THE PEOPLE" about choice!!! to choose there LIFE and FUTURE!!!!