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Subscribe to RSSWith three weeks to go to avoid the fiscal cliff, President Barack Obama will travel to a Detroit auto plan and attempt to sell his plan to raise taxes on the top two percent of Americans.
The “fiscal cliff” end game… If there’s going to be a deal, Obama, Boehner, and Congress need to start the heavy lifting ASAP… Kristol vs. the Wall Street Journal on caving on the tax rates… Motoring! Obama delivers remarks at 2:00 pm ET at a Detroit Diesel plant in Redford, MI… And in Michigan, the president will set foot in the state featuring the nation’s latest labor battle… The hits keep on coming for Susan Rice… The upcoming immigration push… Hillary and 2016… And meet Markwayne Mullen.
*** The end game: We’ve told you that the last couple of weeks in Washington’s fiscal debate have mostly been about P.R. and posturing. Like a student in college or a reporter working in the news business, the real work in Congress typically doesn’t happen until there’s a real deadline that’s rapidly approaching. Well, we’ve now entered that deadline phase in the negotiations between President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner. If the plan is to get something passed by Friday, Dec. 21 (right before the Christmas holiday), then the legislation has to be written by Dec. 18. And that means that Obama and Boehner must reach an agreement by Dec. 14-15, if there’s going to be a deal. So the time for posturing and P.R. is over. This week, we’ve reached the phase where both sides will begin rolling up their sleeves to do the heavy negotiating. Both Obama and Boehner know this, which is why they did meet behind closed doors yesterday. The question now is: Will there be a BIG deal that includes serious entitlement hits in addition to major tax reform? Or will it be JUST taxes and a punt until the debt ceiling? There’s not much of an “in between” at this point.
Chip Somodevilla / Getty Images
Speaker of the House John Boehner, R-Ohio, talks with reporters outside his office in the Capitol Dec. 7, 2012 in Washington, DC.
*** Kristol vs. the Wall Street Journal: In addition to yesterday’s news that the president and the speaker met, Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN) became the latest GOP lawmaker to suggest that Republicans acquiesce on raising tax rates on the wealthy to get entitlement cuts. And that’s a stance the Wall Street Journal’s editorial page today criticizes. “So it's a shame that Republicans are playing into Mr. Obama's hands, negotiating in public among themselves, prematurely giving up on the tax issue and undermining House Speaker John Boehner in the process. Mr. Obama isn't going to blink on the budget if he thinks Republicans are going to blink first, and so far the emerging GOP position seems to be to surrender on taxes first and hope Mr. Obama will have mercy on them later on entitlements.” But the Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol hits back at the Journal. “Most Republicans will go along soon after January 1 with what will now be the Democrats' tax cutting agenda. If the House Republicans now follow the Wall Street Journal editors over the cliff, the only effect, I'm afraid, will be to turn a manageable tactical retreat in December into a panicked strategic rout in January.” There is good news for Boehner in all of this: The lack of consensus among conservatives gives Boehner more running room to cut the deal he thinks is best, rather than over-worrying about specific conservative constituencies. Remember, the House GOP leadership won’t say it publicly, but they’ve signaled privately that under the RIGHT circumstance, they’d go to the floor of the House with less than a majority of the majority.
Former Michigan Republican Governor John Engler, who is the president of the business roundtable, joins The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd to talk about President Barack Obama's trip the Michigan, the fiscal cliff, and Michigan's 'right to work' law.
*** Motoring! Your White House fiscal-cliff photo-op of the day takes place in Michigan, where the president delivers remarks at a Daimler Detroit Diesel plant at 2:00 pm ET in Redford. Per the Detroit Free Press, Daimler, which owns Detroit Diesel, is announcing “a new investment to expand U.S. production and jobs... The White House said the investment is expected to be $100 million or more and, with it, Daimler Trucks North America will become the first heavy-duty vehicle equipment manufacturer on the continent to build a fully integrated powertrain from on production facility.” So today’s even will be a mixture of the fiscal cliff and this Daimler news.
*** Michigan’s labor battle: Yet when Obama visits Michigan, he’ll be setting foot in the state featuring the nation’s latest labor battle. “With Michigan lawmakers poised Tuesday to give final passage of right-to-work legislation, unions and their supporters plan to mass outside the Capitol that day as part of a last-ditch bid to derail the fast-moving campaign to limit labor's power,” the Detroit News says. “If lawmakers reconcile the bills and pass a final version Tuesday — as expected — Gov. Rick Snyder has said he will sign it, making Michigan the 24th right-to-work state and dealing a major blow to organized labor in one of its traditional strongholds.” Out of all the new Republican governors who were elected in 2010, Michigan’s Rick Snyder was always viewed as the least ideological of the bunch. So when Scott Walker in Wisconsin, John Kasich in Ohio, or Rick Scott in Florida were pursuing controversial changes and legislation and confronting the labor movement, Snyder -- who calls himself “one tough nerd” -- stayed away from the ideological wars and focused on the economy. In fact, he even appeared to support Obama’s auto bailout. But now the Michigan governor finds himself knee deep in the same kind of controversy we saw in Wisconsin and Ohio. By the way, while we do expect Snyder to greet the president at the airport, don’t expect to see Snyder with the president at the Chrysler event because it’s taking place at a UAW facility.
*** Hits keep coming for Rice: It’s no longer Benghazi, or even the Keystone XL Pipeline. Critics of Susan Rice are now pointing to the Obama administration’s failure to intervene in the atrocities in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The New York Times: “Specifically, these critics — who include officials of human rights organizations and United Nations diplomats — say the administration has not put enough pressure on Rwanda’s president, Paul Kagame, to end his support for the rebel movement whose recent capture of the strategic city of Goma in Congo set off a national crisis in a country that has already lost more than three million people in more than a decade of fighting. Rwanda’s support is seen as vital to the rebel group, known as M23.” And the Times reports that Rice has been viewed as shielding Kagame. And then there’s a New York Times op-ed from journalist Salem Solomon, who accuses Rice of showing “a surprising and unsettling sympathy for Africa’s despots.” This is the problem for Rice as long as President Obama doesn’t officially appoint her (or John Kerry) to fill the secretary of state position: She’s dangling like a piñata for critics to whack, without an official campaign to defend her. But with the fiscal cliff taking up more and more time and this secretary of state issue becoming such a headache for the administration, there’s a very real chance the president doesn’t announce any new cabinet members until AFTER the new year.
*** The upcoming immigration push: Over the weekend, the Los Angeles Times noted that the Obama White House is preparing for a big push on comprehensive immigration reform after the “fiscal cliff” negotiations end. “Senior White House advisors plan to launch a social media blitz in January, and expect to tap the same organizations and unions that helped get a record number of Latino voters to reelect the president. Cabinet secretaries are preparing to make the case for how changes in immigration laws could benefit businesses, education, healthcare and public safety. Congressional committees could hold hearings on immigration legislation as soon as late January or early February.” More: “Democratic strategists believe there is only a narrow window at the beginning of the year to get an initiative launched in Congress, before lawmakers begin to turn their attention to the next election cycle and are less likely to take a risky vote on a controversial bill.”
*** Hillary and 2016: On Sunday, the New York Times ran a “Hillary 2016” story, and we all should prepare for these kind of stories once a month until she decides to run (or not) for president. “Right now, aides and friends say, Hillary Rodham Clinton’s plan looks like this: exit the State Department shortly after Inauguration Day and then seclude herself to rest and reflect on what she wants to do for the next few years. Those who have invited her for 2013 engagements have been told not to even ask again until April or May.” The Times does make this important point: If she does want to keep the presidential door open, her options are limited. “The more serious she is about 2016, the less she can do — no frank, seen-it-all memoir; no clients, commissions or controversial positions that could prove problematic. She will be under heavy scrutiny even by Clinton standards, discovering what it means to be a supposedly private citizen in the age of Twitter. With the election four years away — a political eon — she will have to tend and protect her popularity, and she may find herself in a cushy kind of limbo, unable to make many decisions about her life until she makes the big one about another White House try.”
*** Meet Markwayne Mullin: NBC’s Carrie Dann has profiled 10 new members to watch in the next Congress. Today’s profile: Markwayne Mullen. When his father's illness forced Mullin to quit college and take over the family plumbing business, the 20-year-old and his wife turned a flailing enterprise into a small eastern Oklahoma empire. Mullin, now 35, won the House seat vacated by retiring Rep. Dan Boren, running under the banner "A rancher. A businessman. Not a politician!" The Tulsa native -- a social conservative who vehemently opposes "amnesty" proposals -- has promised to take a no-frills attitude to the halls of Congress. Casually dressed on election night, he joked with supporters that he defied his campaign staff's request that he wear a suit to deliver his victory speech. "They got me this far, and boots are going to take me all the way there and bring me all the way back" from Washington, he said.
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So what is wrong with going off the cliff? You really think it will be worse than what these morons finally settle on? You are fooling yourselves, and that is the way they roll.
Speaker Bonehead has become an irrelevant puppet of the Tea Party. Grow a set, Boehner and start doing some real work instead of playing games with passing of things that will never go anywhere.
The GOP has lost. Get over it, Boehner and GET TO WORK
So, who's dropping out of the workforce?
So that leave old whitey to pay for their entitlement programs.
deport. Interesting that you don't mention the number of whites that dropped out of the workforce.
So, you zombamies want to raise the debt ceiling even further, so we continue to borrow money we don't have from foreign countries?
Does that really strike you guys as a good idea for America? Please explain how...
They cant so they wont. Nobody wants to pay. They want everyone else to pay and just keep kicking the hard decisions down the road.
We need to pay for the wars, they weren't free. The bill has come due and we need to pay it.
Liberals could never give you a sensible answer they still believe in the tooth fairy
Joe, the wars are/going to be ended. The spending problems arent the wars. It is our insane govt pork projects and handouts.
The cost of the wars is continuing.
First, you have the cost of the wars as they occurred. We put that on the credit card.
Second, you have replacement costs for the weapons used, and degraded.
Third, the costs associated with leaving.
Forth, the costs of caring for the wounded and disabled.
Those things aren't free.
Current estimate just for the Iraq war is about 3 trillion in unpaid debt.
JoePhilly
If the wars were not paid for, why does President Obama support using the "war savings" as a source of revenue?
The debt astounded from our warring machine. I need not point a finger. The problem is greedy people are threatened financially. You can't have you cake and blah blah blah blah. Our government need to be directed to take to a responsible budget overhaul to reduce and eliminated debt while maintaining its competitive nature in the world. The goal to mimic the Clinton era is "achievable". Changes need to be made in our Congress as time do change and antiquated antics has proved dysfunctional. It's (Beltway Politics) becoming an unpopular Soap Opra.
Since you bring up Clinton and his tax rates. Im good with those rates as long as the Pres and the Congress go back to those levels of spending as well. It wasnt just the tax rates that produced surpluses. It was also the reduced levels of spending.
Come on people! Tax the rich! Thank you!
melis, what about that 10T surplus you said Bush inherited. Where did you dream up that amount.
Sometimes they type while the crack pipe is in hand.
What I typed in is printed below, quit trying to switch what I said.
"Wake up, President George W. Bush had us from a surplus to -$10T exactly how is the last four years worse?" (melis-a, 2012)
melis, again, where did you dream up 10T, are you delusional or something?
melis-a
President Obama claimed to have reached a "budget" surplus. Some argue that his "arithmetic" used the Social Security surplus (a myth itself) to balance the budget. Regardless, the nation still had a running deficit when President Clinton left office.
melis, when Bush took over the national debt was 5.7T So what surplus are you talking about"
Maybe taxing those with high incomes will help (but I'm sure not all that much) The MOST important thing is (just like normal household budgets) Nothing will balance if SPENDING is NOT stopped!! Get real!!! That is compromise. Republicans for the taxes and the President and Democrates for STOPPING THE SPENDING!!!
Get real. The Dems dont know what stop spending looks like. They will take in more money from the citizens of the US and spend 2x more.
Joe Philly
Obama's debt is more than the wars. Do we need to pay for that?
The fiscal cliff started to affect business decisions this fall. That's why you saw small declines in manufacturing in Friday's jobs report, for example.
It appears to be a worry for consumers now. The University of Michigan's latest consumer sentiment survey shows confidence dropping to a four-month low. That suggests households are concerned about a potentially sharp fall in their after-tax incomes.
The CBO data suggests they might want to be concerned.
The CBO estimates suggest the 20% of households with the lowest incomes might see their taxes rise by $412.
If you're in the middle 20% of income levels -- between $39,791 and $64,484 -- the average increase would be $1,984.
If you're in the top 20% -- $108,267 or above -- the CBO is estimating an average increase of $14,173.
If you're in the top 1% -- with income above $506,210 -- the average increase might be about $120,500.
The threat of the cliff is the result of Congress' inability in 2011 to come up with a package that would satisfy everyone. It came after threats of a government shutdown, a downgrade of U.S. debt by Standard & Poor's and a short, intense panic in financial markets that sent the major stock market averages down.
The provisions of the cliff were part of a deal made by Congress in an August 2011 budget bill. It set up a so-called Super Committee of members of Congress and the Senate who were supposed to hammer out $1.2 trillion in spending cuts over 10 years. If they couldn't come up with a plan, then a mandatory combination of spending cuts and tax increases would kick
The Super Committee couldn't agree on a plan, with Democrats and Republicans essentially deciding to wait until after the 2012 election to make decisions.
The CBO sees the cliff cutting the federal deficit but also causing a recession, just as the economy is gaining some strength, that might not end until the end of 2013.
The economy is not gaining strength. GDP growth for 2012 will come in at 2%, the same as 2011 and below 2010. A 2% GDP growth economy is about the best economists expect over the coming decade or two for this country. It will take at least that long to get our financial house in order through spending cuts in the federal budget, restructuring of entitlement programs, and increased taxes for everyone.
So, who's dropping out of the workforce?
So that leave old whitey to pay for their entitlement programs.
I'd like to see where you got these numbers please.
When will the frigging Republicans learn? There will be no spending cuts, unless the debt ceiling is involved. The democrats promised Reagan spending cuts, Reagan gave in to tax increases and never got the spending cuts. George H W Bush went back on his pledge of no new taxes and gave it to the democrats in return for spending cuts. Never got one damn dime. The democrats do not know the word cut. If the Republicans give in on tax increases, they will never see a spending cut next year. Then the rotten democrats will use the raising of taxes against the Republicans in 2014. How stupid can the Republicans be. The democrats are downright liars to the hilt. The lie and lie time after time and scare the heck out of Americans to get their votes. Push granny over the cliff. I don't know who is more pathetic.
Republicans don't have to give in to taxes going up because they go up automatically. If they are smart they would have already done whats been offered to them when it comes to the 98% of taxes and extend them. If that part of taxes goes up it will be entirely Republicans fault as Democrats have said more then once they where ready to sign the Bush tax cuts for 98% of Americans all by them self any day. Republicans want to but they want to get something for doing it even though they want it too.
i have to agree with that one the spending cuts need to be upfront cuts have to be made the tax increase obama is purposing will only take 160 billion a year which leaves 900 billon (1 trillion if you count war spending) of yearly deficit spending. we have to bring our spending to reasonable levels
I suggest you take a math course. Medicare and Medicaid are not financially sustainable in their current structure. Back a year ago an OMB official in the Clinton administration admitted that they were aware of that fact back in 1995. There is no way to make the math work without massive changes to entitlement programs. As Erskin Bowles, Dem co-chair of the Obama deficit reduction commission, put it on a CBS new program yesterday, "The government has made promises it cannot keep!"
In general I don't know that you would describe all republicans as stupid but they generally are backward, somewhat prejudiced, believe in an America that never existed, are also most of the rednecks in the country and much too willing to start unjust wars.
And I would argue that you are guilty of also making hasty generalizations about a group of people that you yourself don't associate with. So, what does that make you? Of course you aren't "prejudiced" though, right? Why don't you read what you wrote and realize that YOU YOURSELF ARE ALSO "PREJUDICED"!!!!
the majority of post on here are so sad. people need to relaize that ideals in themselfs are not bad its only when they are abused that they become bad. examples . not everyone abuses food stamps but there are people who do and need to be taken care off. unions are not bad ideal until they start making unrealistic demands (hostess is a perfect example) but honestly should you be forced to join one how is that freedom" and compromise doesnt mean you just get everything you want until americans realize we have to sacrifice to keep the country going sometimes we will be in this trouble yes there are business that will cheat but not all busnisses do martin luther kings statement about judgement based on merit and not simply what you are is a perfect example but people who refuse to believe that business cheat and unions also cheat plus people cheat entitlements when you only care about one side and refuse to even look at the other you only hurt yourself
if we go over the fiscal cliff the obama has let down the american people. he keeps saying he wants to work with the republicans but every time they propose some thing he immediately shoots it down. it has got to be his way or no way at all. that attitude is not what he is supposed to have. they are all supposed to be working for our well being not the parties well being and until they realize that it will be like two second graders in a school yard arguing who's father is best. now do you understand why we need term limits? with term limits these knot heads would only be in office for about 6 or 8 years not 30 or 40 years.
if i were in the presidents place i would agree to half from deductions and raise rates to 37 %
Raising taxes on the higher income earners might help (but I'm sure not all that much). Stopping spending is definately needed to take place 'along' with the raising tax issue. soooo.... Realistically.... BOTH parties must compromise. Republicans agree to some tax increases BUT the President and the Democrats "must" also agree to STOP the spending. And "all" agree in the SAME proposal... not first the tax hikes and then the spending stoppage... That makes as much sense and "we must vote to pass this Obamacare bill before we know what's in it"........Just like everyday household/personal budgets. You can't balance squat if you still over spend!!!!
What spending do you want stopped? Everyone says "stop the spending," but no one seems to be able to tell me what spending they want to stop. Medicare and Social Security do NOT affect the deficit, so those don't need to be cut (what needs to be done is for the government to pay back the money they so recklessly borrowed from those funds to pay for their "pork" projects....for which we can thank ex-President Johnson for allowing them to do this). There are a lot of "pork" projects that come across the desks of our senators, etc., that can be cut; yet, there are some that are necessary. Infrastructure needs repairs desperately, but we don't need war machines that the military doesn't want or need!
We need to do what we do in my family....you decide if the item you want is something that you "need" or something you "want." If it's something you need....you get it; if it's something you only "want," you wait and save your pennies to purchase it. This is the way the country needs to be run....decide what is a "want" and what is a "need." Cut back on the "wants" until we can afford them and deal with the "needs."
As for raising the taxes on the upper 2%....of course that won't pay much of the debt that we have, but it will certainly help to make things a little more even for a time. As I said in an earlier post....I don't mind paying more taxes as someone in the middle class, but I would prefer that they be phased in slowly over the next few years as the economy becomes slowly stronger. The 2% can afford to have their taxes increased now.....the middle class needs to have it increased in increments.
Republicans will keep trying to take America backward and Democrates will struggle forward. If the 40 0dd percent of Americans that vote for the 1 percent could wake up and figure this out, doo dee doo doo doo, America would move Forward. WAKEUPAMERICA and clean the House and Senate of the obstructionist. Before they take over and take your right to vote away.
If you call spending more money then you have going forward then I think we have a basic problem. Wake up. If Washington gets more money then they will just spend it.
since you know this would elaborate on how and define foward for me the cbo says that under obama's play that the yearly deficit would be down to 500 billon by 2018 thats progress but the ideal that is still 1 trillion a year added to the deficit
i met 1 trillion every two year mistyped
Government welfare for the greedy is ended. I'm not sad about that at all. The problem for Rebublicans is that they now have to pay what they should have been paying all along. Republicans took us to war every time a Bush was in office. The same people who claim they do not support welfare are in fact on welfare and have been for a long time. It’s okay to start a war, plunder your own people, and then complain about the welfare of the people. BTW.. The sky is falling...
Please tell me that Obrother will go to Detroit with a pack of bacon.
Republicans just need to vote present and let the Democrats social spending fail. That is what everyone wants, give it to them so they will shut up since they are clueless as to what harm they are causing. Can you say Greece.
Greece is in better shape than we are because they are actually taking steps to correct their problems...too little too late, but they are making an attempt. We, on the other hand, seem to be oblivious. While I agree that the dems should own our current situation, I also feel that voting present should be illegal.
I've yet to read a user comment about Greece that even remotely understands what is fully happening over there, all I ever hear is Faux News rhetoric.
Ben Franklin said it best "the constitution will only be a success as long as you have a moral and virtuious people" wiling to make the hard decisons that quote was paraphrased a little
We need to aleviate this country of the lazy, drug addicted, and illegal imigrants that feel they are entitled to help from the government. Medicaid, welfare, and other entitlements that those indigents feel they have a right to. As a friend in the south used to say, If you ain't workin you aint earning!! Medicaid has got to go, or at least be only available to children under the age of 18. Welfare and unemployment need to be cut drastically, with necessary drug testing on a weekly basis. Alcoholics and crack heads need not apply!!!!!!
Now here is food for thought if we had flat tax rate all of this wasted time could be used on other problems.
15% is 15% if you collect 1000 and year or earn 100,000,000 , WOW you mean everybody would pay thier share equally....and we all think Lawyers are in our pockets the ones that want hand outs but not taxed are worse....here is another we have active duty paying taxes while we have families on food stamps, not paying taxes, with men and woman healthy and younger than 34 why are they not serving instead of leaching.
You don't pay much attention to lobbyists, do you? From the moment a law is passed they start the process to punch loopholes in it for their advantage. Does the middle class have lobbyists?
As for working on other problems, they'd simply find another ideological item to beat up the other party, they don't care about solving problems, they only care about winning.
You vote within the 2 parties you get what you asked for.
sadly it comes too voting for the best evil
That's called a self fulfilling prophecy, get over it.
I'll get over it when The USA is just like the USSR ,look at Homeland securty and KGB , they have about the same powers as KGB had in middle of the Cold War
Way to stay on your original topic. I'm not going to play Whack-A-Mole with your extremist views.
I was on taxes your one that got off with you lame BS about how Dims are so good yet its the Head DIM that made all this happen.
This is what America gets for staying on the 2 party bandwagon. Either Tweedle Dumb or Tweedle Dumber, Bad or Worse, the Fryin Pan or the fire.
So ask yourself who wins when the middle class fights among themselves. The answer is painfully obvious.
well you sure didn't see the elected ones take any funds cut in fact the went on spend spree while rest country but the lower class tooking in the pants
What administration in the last 40 years wasn't on a spending spree? Certainly not W's.
it is not the parties we elect politicians to do what they do and we cheer when they slam the other guy down because his good ideal came from another party its not the party system it is the people until we stop election people with 50 billion dollar campaigns and get back to common people we will fail even with another party and until we as people change what we want in our hearts it will remain the same as long as people advocate welfare and refuse to believe it can be cheated advocate spending as long as it benifits them and choose to look the other way we the people need to change first
Drug Testing for Welfare!!!
yes call it a wellness check up , if government pays for it it public record right
BTW Military has take them
Yeah "Another Indoctrinated Middle Class" who simply refuses to accept or acknowledge all the corporate welfare going on. Go on, keep preaching your Faux News rhetoric.
NO Yash has nothing too do with fox news, has everything about military over welfare and the military earning every dime and have too take pee test ,and welfare, well everything handed out and the can feed the drug lords with Government funds.
Oh brother, can you recall South American death squads under Reagan? The Iran Contra affair? Would the PATRIOT Act exist if W wasn't asleep at the wheel on 9/11? During the first Iraq war skids of cash left the country for "military contractors." Untraceable cash. We outspend the next 17 countries combined on the military.
i am not blind and do see there is some corperate welfare but what does that have to do with drug testing for welfare why is it a bad ideal to kick junkies off the rolls who leach the system that is the problem if you refuse to believe your poop dont stink and that my flowers smell good at times everyon loses ideal;s come from both sides that our good objection because of party affiliation is just plain stupid
LOL fools like you can't understand what The Iran Contra affair was about as long as Iran and Iraq where fighting they only looked at each , after that stopped look what happen.
jt: They tried drug testing and found a very small percentage of people on welfare were on drugs....in fact, it ended up costing a lot of money to do drug testing on these individuals compared to the numbers they found. Drug testing isn't free, you know?
please dems dont say obama has a mandate for his destructive policies. what he won was the cities votes like detroit , chicago, philadelphia and the isolated enclaves of those on welfare and baby production by federal relief. lets be honest. the rest of the nation was carried by the republicans. that was no mandate. if not for the illegals voting and the fraud he would not be our president today.
only corruption at the highest level permits him to operate.
for any one to beleive we will not be more welfare state now and pay higher taxed one has to be just plain stupid.
there are winners and there are losers in this country now and the winners are the ones who depend on government to survive.
what a shame to the future of this nation.
Under your simple minded regime we'd all be serfs just like in the early 1900s. Under your regime Gordon Gekko would have been elected last year, and the dog-eat-dog economy would have prospered. Which is all fine and good if you all could just stop pretending to be Christians in the process. Even Helen Keller can see such hypocrisy.
Please give me some of the instances in this election where illegal aliens where found to be voting for Obama.
More like pubs preventing legitimate voters from casting their votes. Can you be anymore patriotic than that? Luckily some real patriotic justices shot down the PA law that was going to "hand PA to Romney."
well you know I did see fat black lady vote twice and not understand why the machine flagged he and she was pulled aside.
Woody
It could just as easily be said that taxes going up are entirely the Dems fault. Taxes going up without spending cuts will do nothing but put us into further recession. Obama's ego and inflexibility will be our downfall. Funny how it all depends on one's perspective!
blamo: You do know that Congress is the one doing the spending....not President Obama.
The GOP Congress voted to end the tax cuts in 2012. The president doesn't have a vote on expenditures
You can say it but it isn't true. Dems have offered to make middle class tax cuts a separate issue and extend them which is something both side want. Why won't the GOP? Because they want to get something for it even though they want it too.
Neither party wants to cut DOD, and we all know there is plenty of waste and fraud there.
Neither party wants to stop entitlements to corporations, wall street, millionnaire/billionnaries, big oil, denfense contractors.
Neither party talks about reducing all the money sent to other countries.
Why all the focus on the "entitlements" for the lower and middle class, and I put that in quotes because SS and Medicare are not entitlements when people have been paying into them all their working lives.
$0.01 more than what one paid into the program is by definition an entitlement
Spending has to be cut somewhere. Where do you propose?
diddy: Not true since the monies paid in collect interest and gain value.
skept: Did you even read my post...cut DOD, cut corporate welfare, remove tax loopholes for the wealthy and corporations, stop sending money to other countries.
really? whatever interest you speak of (in addition to the money that supposedly gains interest) is merely a drop in the bucket compared to the actual cost of healthcare.
diddy: So you acknowledge my post is correct....monies paid in do gain in value.
Not sure what your point is.....medicare is an insurance program....just like healthcare insurance. You pay in over the years and at some point may need to be covered for more than you have paid in...that is what insurance is for.
And what about all the people who pay into medicare their working lives, but die before they use it, or die a few years into medicare so do not use the amount they paid in. That is still money in the system to cover those who may outlive the amount they paid in.
I suppose the point is that medicaid, SS, medicare, etc. was a failure from the word go.
diddy: Why do you say they are failures....put some facts out to back up your supposing.