"The Campaign to Fix the Debt is a huge, and growing, coalition of powerful CEOs, politicians and policy makers on a mission to lower taxes for the rich and to cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid under the cover of concern about the national debt. " (Lynn Paramour)

This group wants Democrats to continue the Bush income taxes for the rich, while gutting/ending the social safety net for the rest of Americans. Senior fellow at the Roosevelt Institute Thomas Ferguson: "The people who brought you the Great Recession by pushing deregulation and financial leverage to insane dimensions are back. Now they propose to 'fix the debt' by throwing average Americans who generously bailed them out in 2008-09 over the fiscal cliff."

Considering that the top 1% in America has been creaming off 93% of U.S. income growth, such "concern" for the deficit is just a big fake game to these guys. Since and before the Great Recession, the members of this CFD coalition have shamelessly cleaned up at our expense, and we 98% have borne the brunt of their abuse.

The corporations involved receive big subsidies from government (and bailouts), and their tax bills are often at zero due to loopholes. The very greedy do not have the interests of the American people in mind.

Fix the Filibuster

Why changing the Senate rules now won't be harmful to Democrats when Republicans win control:
Just step back and take the wider, longer view of the political landscape.
=> Democrats have won the popular vote in 4 of the last 5 Presidential Elections
=> Demographic changes favor Democrats
It is becoming clear that Democrats are odds on favorites to retain the Whitehouse for a generation so when the Republicans control the Senate any bills they pass, that Democrats object to will find the veto pen.
Beyond that it is time to bring an end to the ease of blocking nominations regardless of who is in the Whitehouse. This is how we have ended up with so many czars.
Czars only came about out of necessity to effectively run an administration given all the difficulty getting top administration positions confirmed by a dysfunctional, political motivated Senate.

Four House Republicans stripped of their committee seats, Karl Rove and Dick Morris fired by Fox, Grover Norquist in freefall, Rep. Tom Cole supports taxing the wealthy, Bill O’Reilly maintains that Christianity is a philosophy and not a religion (Huh?) . . . .

You might be forgiven for thinking that some semblance of sanity is returning to the Republican Party.

But no. Forcible Rape Ryan still chairs the Budget Committee, Cantor prowls restlessly in the shadows, McConnell blusters on and on and on, Rubio is “a rising star” . . . and 38 far right Republican Senators reject a Disabilities Treaty that virtually every country in the world has passed.

Cosmetic changeovers do not a changeover make.

Divine Inspiration

When Washington Stale Mates, Republican House Majority Leader John Bonehor and Republican House Minority Leader Mitch McConnell can only speak of tax cuts for the rich by eliminating SS, Medicare & Medicaid they need to call on the spirt of St. Reagan. Ronald Reagan said SS does not add anything to the defiecit.

REAGAN: Social Security, let’s lay it to rest once in for all…Social Security has nothing to do with the deficit. Social Security is totally funded by the payroll tax levied on employer and employee. If you reduce the outgo of Social Security, that money would not go into the general fund to reduce the deficit. It would go into the Social Security trust fund. So Social Security has nothing to do with balancing the budget or erasing or lowering the deficit.

Watch it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihUoRD4pYzI&feature=player_embedded

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The Republicans pushed Bob Dole over the when they refused to vote on ratification of the U.N. Convention on the Rights of People with Disabilities.
These are the same back stabbers who shook his hand prior to pushing him over the cliff.

The Stale Mates in the Republican Congress are really ugly. They act like tin foil hatters based about the paranoia of world dominace

Translation of Albany Joe's post: HOORAY FOR ME! HOORAY FOR ME!

you also had George W. Bush urging Washington to soften its rhetoric on immigration.

Already stumping for your bubba, Dubbya?

We do not need another Bush, thank you. Go back to what you do best: cutting brush.

Crazy Wins Again in the US Senate. Went to the "big city" for the day and return to learn that the GOP Senators shamed themselves and the country by voting NO to establish what has been existing United States Law, since 1990 when President George H. W. Bush signed the Americans with Disabilities Act, as world wide law. The right claims they want the US to have influence and THEN they vote against that influence. How in the world has the GOP become such a paranoid, delusional crowd is beyond me--they vote NO over something that has no impact on home schooling. There are some good, reasonable Senators but fear of being "primaried" has them paralyzed and placing Party before Country, party before their Oath, and putting radical right-wingers ahead of the rest of their constituents.

Seems to me that ANY senator who is so fearful of losing their jobs two years from the next election, sometimes six years away, no longer deserve to hold those jobs. That goes for you, too, Iowa Senator Grassley! What a disgrace.

Hi All,

The far right wants no revenues on the table - just more tax cuts for the wealthy, and the gutting of entitlements and government services across the board -

Led by Jim deMint.

Jody, Yes the U.S. could be leading in this area, at no cost to us.

What an ignorant waste of a great opportunity!

"The Republican Party successfully scuttled the prospect of the United States joining a United Nations treaty that would establish international standards for the rights of disabled people. The vote took place on December 4. The treaty "urges nations to strive to ensure that the disabled enjoy the same rights as their fellow citizens," the Associated Press reports .

...The GOP's opposition to the treaty was reinforced by right-wing media freaking out over yet another United Nations effort. The pattern is well-established: take a UN treaty the US is thinking of signing, twist the language to make it seem nefarious, and then gin up hysterical opposition to it based on non-existent provisions in the treaty."

Joe in Albany.......you said:

Quote......I’m happy because Barry and the loony left get zip, zero, nada, nothing, in taxes out of this deal.......EndQuote

Who do you suppose pays the taxes unpaid on account of such tax avoidance schemes codified into our tax code by highly paid lobbyists?

Thanks for confessing that you care not one iota about fairness. You care only about your greedy self. Thanks also for spotlighting a (tax avoidance) scheme that needs to be taken away from you.

One thing you may not have considered should the Bush era tax cuts expire though: the alternative minimum tax.

Sounds like to me the republicans retain the right to be republicans (obstructionist) however they can listen to reason while being trained to a 2" x 4". Sometimes it is wise to cut your loses and its time for the tea bags in congress to consider that compromise isn't the word no. I agree with those that think filibuster should be fixed. I prefer to leave it in place with an actual filibuster. Make both sides of the isle actually have to read the phone book for hours if they want to block a bill or appointment.

That’s what I call a WIN, WIN, WIN, WIN, WIN situation!!!!!!!!!

Joe the Albino reminds me of a cartoon from a few decades ago depicting a solitary soldier in a landscape of rubble and mushroom clouds. The Caption: "I WON."

joe who did you blow in albany

Bah Humbug!

When will these republican quit supporting this bat crap crazy crowd? They are killing their own party!

ian -- your assessment is interesting. while it is clear that joe is doing nothing illegal the same cannot be said of tax cheaters like al sharpton with whom the president discusses tax fairness and let's not forget his treasury secretary either.

do you hold the same opinion of everyone that works to lessen their tax burden? warren buffett and barack obama as examples?

We can always count on the slimy, smarmy, smug likes of Albany Joe to provide us with a reminder of exactly why so many Americans hate the idle rich non-productive class- especially those of us who have spent our entire lives engaged in pursuits that actually add value to the economy.

Joe likes to tell us, ad nauseum, how terribly clever he is, moving around bits of paper and electronic impulses that represent value, but adding nothing, nothing at all, to the real economy. As a result of his speculation, no jobs are created; no products are made; nothing is loaded onto a truck and driven to a port, thence to be shipped to East Asia or Europe. All of his activity is so much financial self- abuse.

I can predict with great confidence- indeed, with near- certainty-that when the idea of taxing financial transactions such as his at an extremely modest rate (say 1% of stated value) gains traction (as it must inevitably do, given the rising tide of disgust at parasites like Joe's cohort) Joe will be screaming that to even discuss a transaction tax will lead to the collapse of the financial system, condemning millions to ruin and eventually causing the Sun to go cold and black!

The voters, remembering that they've heard this exact same speech from the parasite class every single time any sort of regulatory of taxation measure is publicly broached, and that every single time it's been shown to be another pack of lies, will hit the 'MUTE' button and vote for the transaction tax.

After which Joe and his salmon- eating, Sam Adams- drinking friends will still be rich; still profiting hugely from the sweat of honest workers; and still whining and grousing about how mistreated and underappreciated they are.

Speaking of filibusters...

Anyone else remember when Bernie Sanders staged a good old fashion one during the debt ceiling debacle?

Bernie is a man who puts his convictions where his mouth is...

Unlike the rest of the spineless cowards who hide behind "threats"!

Pagan Rituals and Nachos

From the article above:

“Fresh off a nasty campaign in which opponents painted her as a hippie who enjoys the occasional ‘pagan ritual,’ Arizona freshman Kyrsten Sinema is no stranger to tough campaigns.

Yes, that’s us Liberals.

By day, we work alongside the masses in our day to day drudgery making sure we keep our secret hidden, but when the sun goes down, it’s nothing but pagan rituals for us.

First it starts with the Roman tradition know as “Happy Hour”, where we gorge ourselves on alcoholic beverages and forbidden delights like Won tons and nachos grande.

Then, later in the evening after we put our devil-children to bed, we light candles and incense, indulge in more wine and even illegal herbs, before we satisfy our animalistic cravings with our pagan partners.

And that’s not even during a full moon.

Watch out, Republicans. We liberal pagans are everywhere, and we are taking over America, just like Glen Beck says.

Salud

The GOP will fold on President Obama's tax plan. They really have no choice. The alternative is to go off the cliff and that will do then more harm then approving the Presidents proposal. The approval level is already in the low teen numbers, if they chose to go off the cliff they'll be lucky to be in single digit numbers. Pay backs a bitch isn't it guys. Let's move on to the Country's business and quit wasting everyones time.

Backhouse, well said. If the CEOs of corporations such as Walmart were serious about the deficit and the debt, they should try paying their workers more money, living wages and full-time jobs for those who want full-time work. Said workers would have more money, pay more taxes, reduce the deficit. Right now, many Walmart workers receive federal/state food assistance as well as Medicaid for health care. We the People's taxes subsidize Walmart which makes billions every year but they stick the taxpayers with a bigger burden to aid the poor because Walmart is too cheap to pay their workers or provide benefits. That is not being "good, Corporate citizens, it is simple greed.

Jack, Portsmouth, nicely said. Perhaps we should call it baby steps for the GOP; trouble is, at that rate, it will be another 20 years before they find their way back to sanity or even remotely normal thinking.

Dennis, well said. I really don't much care how loudly the GOPers squeal about changing the filibuster rules, to the democrats I say JUST DO IT. When ANY Political Party abuses the privileges of the minority to the point the GOP has done since 2007, that party no longer deserves the privileges. The rules changes proposed do not remove the rights of the minority to debate, the new rules actually FORCE the minority to honestly, and vocally debate. Right now, the GOP doesn't even allow legislation to be brought to the floor for debate. President Lydon Johnson was filibustered one time, just once; the GOP has filibustered 386 times since Jan 2007 when democrats took control of Congress. The GOP has filibustered, delayed and tried to block every single piece of legislation the past four years. Republicans complained about the number of President Bush's nominees that were blocked, yet 86% of his nominees were approved; only 42.6% of President Obama's nominees have been approved. Disgraceful behavior by the GOP.

And this deal is available to everyone, including lefty liberals. Of course, they would have to first be part of the 53% of American’s that actually pay income taxes.

you do realize, that statistically speaking, MORE of the 47% that pay no taxes are likely Republican voters (as the majority of that 47% are elderly and retired folks). Correct?

Your entire diatribe Joe is laughable. The fact that you still buy into the nonsensical "47%" meme talking point shows your inability to connect with reality and an inability to properly digest just exactly went down in early November. I hope the GOP and it's army of numbnuts (of which you are a part) continues down their scorched earth path so that we can wipe more of them off the map in 2014...

Sorry Glenn... the only "BECK" we listen to has two turntables and a microphone!

feisty @ 1.22 -- so a filibuster is ok if one puts his convictions where his (pretty sexist, sounds like only males can put their conviction out there) mouth is.

who gets to decide whether someone is putting their convictions forward in a filibuster? you? me? the media?

pretty silly statements red

"...Not by making rich people poorer, but by making poor people richer.”

=======================

Cute statement and all, but at the end of the day, not a realistic one. Every economic mechanism in play today only accelerates the already ridiculous income/wealth gap between the haves and the have nots.

I do not accept the notion that one can have 250-300% increase in upper income growth vs 15-20% increase in growth of middle class over the last 30 years and conclude that the former is not in large part at the expense of the latter.

To act as though both can grow at the upper income type pace is akin to saying that housing prices can do nothing but continue to go up and up and up and up and up and up.

Rubio is incorrect. There needs to be a systemic change in how money/assets are used to create income and wealth and that at some level will indeed be making the rich somewhat poorer.

Thanks, Jody. I agree that practice of the filibuster should revert to the way it was done in the past, when a Senator had to actually stand up and talk a bill down. McConnell saying that without a filibuster there will be Tyranny by the Majority, when in fact the way it is employed by his crowd is Tyranny by a Minority.

FoxTrotsky

After which Joe and his salmon- eating, Sam Adams- drinking friends will still be rich

This assumes that Albany Joe really is rich, which few of us believe. He's a loudmouth wannabe.

Billybob it is you that is being silly, an actual filibuster is when a senator actually stands up and speaks for hours. Not just declare it. Yes, you me and the rest of the people in the U.S. decide when someone is putting their convictions forward in a filibuster. Who else but the Amreican voters should do this?

Jody,

The latest WalMart wheeze is to cut workers' hours to less than 30 per week, so that they don't qualify for healthcare benefits.

Let's face it, as a leading purveyor of goods worldwide, WalMart can afford to do right by its workers. So many WalMart workers have to take a second job because the pay is so bad ($8). So they hardly see their families, and when they do, it is hard to afford to do something nice with their children.

The Filibuster isn't part of our Constitution for a reason, requiring a super-majority for passing laws would create gridlock as well as give the tyranny of the minority the ability to be tyrants.

I remember Bernie Sander's excellent filibuster; it was "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington", it was democracy at work. While the democrats institute filibuster rule changes, they should add one more: when any party filibusters, all senators of the filibustering party must be present for the debate except for occasional bathroom breaks. The nonfilibustering party can take more extended breaks not to exceed two hours at a time. No filibustering empty rooms! Now, I know that's a bit too much but the idea is worth debate--maybe the minority will be less likely to filibuster everything if it requires everyone in their party to be present to hear the arguments up close and personal.

California Tom

The GOP will fold on President Obama's tax plan.

Greg Sargent has a nice explanation why the Stale mated GOP WILL cave

Why GOP will buckle on tax rates for rich: Doyle McManus of the Los Angeles Times has a very good overview of the situation: Republicans know that going over the cliff won’t be that damaging in the short term; they know Obama is prepared to go over it without a deal to raise tax rates on the rich; and they know they’ll have to yield sooner or later. It’s good to see more news outlets getting it right on the basic dynamic here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2012/12/05/the-morning-plum-why-obama-wont-negotiate-with-gop-over-debt-ceiling/

Joe in Albany-

The consensus view was that, given the loud vocal bloodlust desire to punish the successful with higher taxes coming from Barry and the loony left...

What's loony, is you actually think the successful are being "punished".

Sure, Joe.

They are suffering so horribly. Having to decide which house to vacation in or which luxury yacht to take to the vacation house they decide to vacation in.

You're sick, Joe.

How dare you stand up for people who have more money for generations to come while the majority of Americans are being "punished" for just trying to hang on.

There are children in this country that go to bed hungry, Joe.

You know NOTHING about Democrats, and what we stand for.

All you "know" is what you want to hear.

Disgusting.

Truly disgusting "let them eat cake" attitude.

Salud

PARTY @/w Tomas!!

Joe in Albany, looks like you struck a chord with followers of Che in here.

This assumes that Albany Joe really is rich, which few of us believe. He's a loudmouth wannabe.

equally applied to the lefty 'Scholars' and 'Elitists'.

Marco Rubio: “Government has a role to play. And we must make sure it does its part. But it’s a supporting role… It is not the ever expanding reach of government"- Republican code words which point to no changes in policies that Rubio and Ryan have embraced. They have learned nothing in the elections in November.

Paul Ryan: “And though I wish this election had turned out differently, I’m proud of the campaign Mitt Romney and I ran."- Really? Still proud of the budget proposed during the campaign that gave more to the rich at the expense of the middle class? Ryan has learned nothing from his defeat, and will never see the inside of the White House without an invitation.

It's going great over there for progressives. They pander to the extreme right, do not recognize America is trending center-left. This bodes well for 2014. McConnell will end up being a lobbyist after he loses!

Put Joe in Albany on "IGNORE".

He is a moron.

When the Republicans finally tuck their collective tails between their legs and approve the plan that President Obama has put forth we can all expect to hear the mournful howling of Rove, the Kochs, Grover and the rest of "those people" all the way from New York to California.

Sadly, the GOP still wants to turn Social Security over to investment bankers and the Wall Street gang while morphing Medicare into a voucher system so they can take care of their buddies in the insurance industry. The next talking point from the GOP will be ... well, we gave the president what he wanted (middle class tax break), so he HAS to let us play around with these 'entitlement programs'. (*Republicans stomp their feet*) Well, the answer is NO ... keep your greedy little paws off of OUR money.

Republicans! Sit ... Beg ... Roll Over ... Stay ... Play Dead. Okay, here's a pat on the head for doing what you were told to do. Don't make us get after you with a rolled up ballot again.

TomasGrande @ #1.36,

Great post. Somebody on Fox says the Left wants to "punish the rich", and all the RWNJ zombies stagger about going, "Yeah, Yeah!" Well said.

CA,

I imagine you hate education, hate PBS, hate NPR, hate Rachel Maddow. Intelligent, rational discussion of issues facing our nation today is anathema to you. You would prefer to wallow in ignorance. Your posts are a perfect demonstration of it.

Jody,

At the minimum, the GOP ability to block the Motion to Proceed must go. All the work, time, and cost of producing great bills like the American Jobs Act --- and then GOP just blocks the debate altogether! And many times.

GOP has been filibustering at 3 times the pace ever seen in our history. As GOP congressionals speak for corporations - we are seeing zero-zero-zero return for our taxpayer dollars. Out of patience.

Tomas, I thought we were going to eat pumpkin pie? And speaking of pie (in the sky) could it be that the GOP is finally waking up to the fact that they lost ON ALL FRONTS during the last election cycle?

NAAAAAAAH

Skip

If the CEOs of corporations such as Walmart were serious about the deficit and the debt, they should try paying their workers more money, living wages and full-time jobs for those who want full-time work. Said workers would have more money, pay more taxes, reduce the deficit. Right now, many Walmart workers receive federal/state food assistance as well as Medicaid for health care. We the People's taxes subsidize Walmart which makes billions every year but they stick the taxpayers with a bigger burden to aid the poor because Walmart is too cheap to pay their workers or provide benefits. That is not being "good, Corporate citizens, it is simple greed.

Well said, Jody. The $ billions that the members of the Walton family skim off the top at the expense of the worker on the floor... how much of that is taxed at all, and how much is sent to offshore tax havens and/or written off via numerous tax loopholes to which only the mega-rich have access?

Much-needed federal tax revenue is thus reduced twice, both by shrinking WalMart worker's salaries to the point where they do not owe any federal income tax, and by allowing the billionaire Waltons to pay a pittance of a percantage of their incomes in FIT compared to what a middle class wage earner pays.

The GOP thinks this is the greatest system ever invented.

So the Albanian idiot has confirmed he is a freeloading, bonafide, 47%er that pays no taxes. Wow Joe, does it hurt to be part of the detested, hated, 'free stuff', lazy liberal crowd so despised by your idols Romney, Beck, Limbaugh and FauxForDumbFux Noose organization?

Speaking of the GOPTP, I see they have waged a new frickin' social war - War on the Disabled. Seems that the War on Women, Religion, Gays, Race, Class, etc.... just wasn't enough. They had to make sure they added one of the few remaining segments of society into their campaign of hatred. Is there anyone left out there that they haven't waged war against?

Jack, while volunteering to re-elect President Obama and other democrats, I had the pleasure of having a one-on-one conversation about the filibuster with IA's Senator Tom Harkin. He's been trying to change the filibuster rules for years, not to eliminate it but to make it worthy of being called a filibuster, to make it a real debate about the legislation or the nominee. One of his ideas is to change the cloture number required during any filibuster to gradually decrease from 60 down to a simple majority to end it. No doubt some of his ideas will be part of the changes since some of the changing I'm hearing are things he has proposed in the past.

So let me get this straight Joe in Albany. You give $30,000 away to save $15,000 in taxes. So Joe lets look at it this way, you have 30,000 from your first investment and 50,000 from your second investment for a total of 80,000 dollars. If capital gains taxes were raised to 30% which they won't be, you'd owe 15,000 in taxes but by your rational you'd rather give $30,000 away to save $15,000 in taxes. Instead of having $65,000 in the bank you'd just have $30,000 in the bank. Ever hear of cutting off your nose to spite your face?

President Barack Obama on the Fiscal Cliff & More

http://blackamericaweb.com/78140/president-barack-obama-on-the-fiscal-cliff-more/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't forget to click for the audio. You can play in the background as you post.

My2K

@Tomas I agree Joe is a looney tune

Last week, the GOP was in "check". This week, the GOP will be in "check-mate". I don't care what option they take. Their fight is lost....period. If they fold'em, as the article states. They aren't really in a better position because Obama is just going to let Coporate tax cuts expire before any debt ceiling discussions. And if Republicans don't budge on increasing the debt ceiling limit. They have to explain why they (Boehner) voted to increase it 7 times during the Bush administration but refuses voting to raise it now.....when the US economy is depending on it for growth. In such a case, the GOP would be blamed for the country going over the fiscal cliff. The GOP is screwed.......and I love it.

By the way, why does the GOP claim Obama is offering no entitlement cuts when they (GOP) claimed Obama cut $716 Billion from Medicare Advantage last month??? What a bunch GOP of Liars.

I have been saying for weeks that the GOP should just start voting present on all economic bills.

Don't make anymore proposals for the dems and media to beat you over the head with just sit back and let the dems draft all the solutions and let them all pass by voting present.

Let the American people have what they voted for. Let them see how destructive it is to raise taxes on investment and earnings and spending 1.4 trillion more than you have every year.

Let the dems take us to rock bottom.

Both the Dems and the GOP are going to let this go over the cliff and as an independent voter I am going to hold them both responsible. We NEED A MODERATE THIRD PARTY BADLY.

The GOP actually has some good points, in that taxing the boogyman called "the rich" is not the solutions to the big problem, curbing spending is. Look people, during the stock market crash of 1929 the wealthiest individuals could have paid off the national debt..NOW they cannot keep the Fed Government running for a year never mind the debt. All this time up till now taxes have been much higher (we are a a historical low) and still the feds skyrocketed the debt Dems and GOP alike.

Do you see that we have a much larger problem that raising taxes (which I believe we should do on ordinary income and dividends while adjusting other taxes for inflation such as estate taxes etc) that taxing alone without curbing spending drastically will not fix?

There are children in this country that go to bed hungry, Joe.

Joe couldn't care less. Those aren't his children! Making a charitable contribution puts a twinkle in his eye only because he can write it off.

This is the GOP attitude in a nutshell: "I've got mine, so f--- you."

Fortunately, a majority of Americans do care about their neighbors, their communities and our country. We don't need right-wing "Christian" evangelical bigots to teach us morality.

Actually Tonytellsthetruth...

If we go over the cliff the dems spending packages will be screwed also along with the GOP taxes.

One good thing that may come up is that you will not see any effect on how Congress and the government branches themselves are run, which will be an eye opener as to how little work they do for so much money and no impact on the country. Alongside this, the major impact will also be shown to be entitlements and programs, which will be another eye opener.

Jody,

Harkin, being a Viet Nam Vet, holds a special place in my heart. Always wanted to meet him. Lucky you.

I hope you're right about the possible decrease of the cloture vote. We don't need baby steps on filibuster rule change; we need giant steps to make the legislative process work again. I would bet that that kind of change will result in more work across the aisle.

McConnell used the filibuster process to back up his announced desire that Obama be a one-term president. He's the worst kind of politician--doing one thing when he has the power to do so, but denouncing that very same practice when the other party is in power and attempts the same thing. Harkin is one of the best kind of politicians. The guy's straightforward and honest.

I'm sick of paying congress people an annual salary to only work for 1/3 of a year!

Filibuster remform NOW!

If you weren't so biased towards one party, I'd say I hope you realize that this statement is pretty accurate, and I agree with it, for both parties. But I have my concerns about you....

All I can say is I am making a promise. I PROMISE that these deals WILL NOT matter. I am rooting for a total deal fail, by the way, so America can start paying hard earned cash for the brilliant decision to re-elect most incumbents to the House and Senate. Put your money where your mouf is, one partiers. Fork over your wallet!

Marco Rubio (whose parents were NOT refugees from Castro as he used to lie):

It is not the ever expanding reach of government, but rather having access to the benefits of thriving economy that allows the poor to rise into the middle class. Not by making rich people poorer, but by making poor people richer.”

That's definitely an improvement over the philosophy of the current GOP: Make rich people richer by making poor people poorer, which is exactly what they mean when they talk about "broadening the tax base." They want to make that 47% of Americans who are moochers pay federal income tax. And nothing will build the character of people already living on the edge of starvation like pushing them over the edge.

Obama has no interest in fixing anything regarding the fiscal nightmare facing this country. This all about blame and political gain. This paltry tax increase doesn't fix anything, but it does appear to fool most liberals into believing it is a solution to our massive debt and annual deficits. Republicans have allowed themselves to be used and abused by Obama and this will represent another defeat solely because the polling says they will get the blame. The next defeat will come in a month or two when the Republicans get abused again over the debt ceiling talks, which when increased will end all discussions from Obama on anything debt or deficit related. Obama isn't trying to fix the fiscal crisis, he is trying to destroy the Republican party plain and simple. The real Obama agenda is beginning to emerge, and the United States as it was originally conceived is coming to an end. We will see if it fits the desires or expectations of the liberals that made it happen.

More of the same old BULL from our "DO NOTHING" congress. Both Democrats and Republicans kicking the can on down the road and doing nothing else but playing with themselves.

Tomas, cheers for #1.36!!! Personally, I don't believe a word of Albany Joe's bragging but he certainly has the right-wing selfish attitude and blame the poor for being poor down to a science. It is a sad thing that a country so wealthy and bountful sees one in five of its children with food insecurity. That is a result of trickle down thinking as well as short-sighted private sector greed of paying its workers less, cutting benefits and then blaming the people for being poor. It's a giant snowball where employers cut wages, ship jobs overseas, then need to keep finding ever cheaper wages overseas because people in the USA can't afford to buy even the cheapest products.

kaybee, thanks. So true, whether McDonald's or Walmart, "greed, for lack of a better word, is good". The republicans demand cuts to public assistance yet it is their CEO and 2% wealthy's selfishness and greed that puts workers in a position of needing public assistance. They yell about paying more taxes yet stick the taxpayers with the bills for their inhumanity to their own employees then wonder why the number of people receiving food aid is increasing. Well, duh!!

I imagine you hate education, hate PBS, hate NPR, hate Rachel Maddow. Intelligent, rational discussion of issues facing our nation today is anathema to you. You would prefer to wallow in ignorance. Your posts are a perfect demonstration of it.

im curious to how you drew this conclusion. im sure it was because of your Grand education Jack.

Nobody seems to be listening. Why do you think the repubs want to close the loopholes? Rich will find "legal" ways to get around taxes. Raising rates will not work!

And tell me this: who in their right mind is really going to pay more taxes out of the goodness of their heart? If you were in his situation, you would really pay taxes when you don't have to? When you can keep it in your own pocket? If you say you would pay taxes instead of paying yourself, you are lying! He is not doing anything illegal either! CLOSE THE LOOOPHOLES! The right isn't as stupid as they sound! Perfect example right here....and it happens ALL THE TIME!

Arithmetic For Republicans: Why Boehner’s ‘Offer’ Just Doesn’t Add Up

~snip~
Consider their treatment of Medicare, the popular social insurance program for seniors that Republicans have always despised. They have just emerged from a long national campaign in which they repeatedly and falsely claimed to “protect” Medicare from the president — whom they accused of wanting to slash $716 billion from the program — but now they complain that he won’t cut it enough. The Obama cuts were mythical, but the Boehner budget proposal includes at least $600 billion in Medicare and Medicaid reductions.

Worse still, the Republicans propose to perform this crude surgery on Medicare without the slightest explanation of where they would cut. Washington rumors suggest that they would achieve some of those cuts over the next 10 years by raising the eligibility age by two years to 67 and by increasing premiums for more affluent beneficiaries.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/arithmetic-for-republicans-why-boehners-offer-just-doesnt-add-up/

———————————————————————————————————————–

Greedy, dumb, RepubliCOns. They’d better be afraid of President Obama’s veto pen and 2014.

Isn't it time to let the temporary tax cuts expire to gain more revenue? Isn't it time to let the sequester take place to begin to curb our spending? Isn't it time for both sides to realize that both of their plans are sorely lacking?

This nonsensical posturing will go on for another two and a half weeks. Perhaps they are waiting for the Mayan apocalypse to settle it for them, LOL. Seriously the talking points will probably continue till Friday 12/21/12. The weekend before Christmas they will pass some misguided bill that will deal with the problem about as well as a shanked punt into a gale force windstorm.

I would rather we go off the so called fiscal cliff, everyone pays their original rates from the 1990's. The pay roll tax gets reimplemented, defense spending gets curbed from a leviathan to a behemoth, non discretionary cuts go into effect. Sure it will cause a two to three month downturn but in the long run the nation will be better for it.

Step 1 - Balance - Everyone's temporary tax cut goes away.

Step 2 - Sequester - Spending cuts begin, because Congress cared enough not to do its job for itself.

Step 3 - Legislate new Tax reform - Remove loopholes and deductions on the high income earners, broaden the base for lower income earners (more pay but they pay less ie. no more free riders outside of the poverty stricken).

This is insane. Now all you liberals are pissed off at the GOP because they are threatening to vote in a way that will support the democrats plans.

Vote present let them have it their way. When it crushes our economy they wont be blaming the GOP.

joe in albany, yay for me too! some people just don't get it, they don't want you to have any control over your money, they want it contolled by the gov. so they get their "FAIR SHARE" what a sad day in America!

The president has no intent on reaching an agreement.

We all know that, if we're honest.

It's in his best "political interest", which we all know is the base from where he operates, admit it.

We will go over the cliff, by design, for the president to achieve his political goals. It will happen - planned that way.

President Obama has repeatedly shown that his political interests far out-weigh his interest in the success of our country's economy and jobs. He pulled off the re-election so he will let this happen, for his own goals.

So let me get this straight Joe in Albany. You give $30,000 away to save $15,000 in taxes.

_________________________________________

Mo-ron: No, I give $30,000 away to charities to support the good work they do.

The tax savings is just icing on the cake of supporting charities I like.

Legally stiffing Barry and the loony left on the taxes is just for pure pleasure.

Life is good.

Enjoy.

It's a giant snowball where employers cut wages, ship jobs overseas, then need to keep finding ever cheaper wages overseas because people in the USA can't afford to buy even the cheapest products.

Exactly, Jody!

And the rich are too stupid/ too wrapped up in their cocoon of self-absorbed luxury to see that, in the end, they are killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

The system is not sustainable...not unless we're shooting to turn the U.S.A. into Bangladesh.

i get the imression some think extending the middle class tax cuts ends the threat of the fiscal cliff, it does not. even when, not if, the gop cave on the tax cuts there is still a long ways to go to avoid the cliff. you will still need over 2 trillion in cuts to avoid the cliff. if they went along with the medicade program thats naother 400 billion. still a long ways to go and i can promise you there will be no fix for the cliff without a debt ceiling raise

so keep in mind that the middle class tax cut is only about a 3rd of the fight, maybe the biggest part for far from ending the threat

Guys, please do not get mad at Joe, what he did was good. Although he paid no taxes on it, its not like what he did made him better off really it just avoided taxes.

Icome and tax liability are two DIFFERENT things. If Joe's example was true he would have had a 50000 capital gain. If he is the rich guy he says he is and Obama actually raised capital gains taxes to 45% (both situations highly ulikely). Joe gave away $30k to charity to avoid $22.5k of tax liability. I do not see anything wrong witht that he took a loss of $7.5k. As far as him moving his assets from taxable accounts to non taxable accounts, nothing is wrong with that and it's perfectly legal and smart. I do believe there is a cap to how much you can contribute to IRA and 401k's so it really doen't matter.

If Joe wants to stick it to himself just because he is angry at the government, who cares if charity wins?

I wish that the "47% pay no taxes" would come with the additional notation that it refers to "Federal Tax" - the moocher insinuation is annoying. Unless someone lives off the land and under a bridge, EVERYONE pays some tax - on gasoline, property taxes, sales tax, etc.
A family of 5 making about $50k a year will have 5 personal deductions, in addition to whatever other write-offs, and won't pay Federal tax, but they sure are paying state and local - plus into Social Security and Medicare. Elderly on average fixed incomes may not be paying Federal Taxes - but they are still paying consumption-based taxes, and Medicare - except for indigent seniors, Medicare is not free.
Personally, and I've said it before, it would be worth it to me to pay higher Federal Tax if the US goes over the "fiscal cliff" - IF it got rid Bonehead Boehner, McConnell, and Graham in 2014.

TO: Job1 who wrote:

"When will these republican quit supporting this bat crap crazy crowd? They are killing their own party!"

Which is exactly why I've changed my mind about the wackos. Let them ramble on!!!

As long as the wackos keep at it the way they are now, they'll make Democrats look better and better, and even increase our chances of taking over the House during the next mid-term elections, cause let's face it, all Republicans have is hate speech and backwards thinking and the rambling wackos prove that everyday.

Albany Joe's snivelling, con't:

This second post is brought to you by the amateur MORONS that program this crappy website:

Translation of Albany Joe's post: HOORAY FOR ME! HOORAY FOR ME!

_________________________________

Jack-off: The charities win, I win, and Barry and loony left lose.

Life doesn't get any better.

Enjoy.

Joe, we're enjoying the figurative steam we can picture coming off of your hairy, misshapen, under-groomed ears! Does it really bother you to be called out for the posturing, parasitic, greed-driven phony that you make yourself appear to be? Could it be that all of the slings and arrows are getting to you?

Just remember that it's a basic principle of Liberalism that no person is ever completely beyond redemption- although I can't help thinking that even Hubert Humphrey might want to give you a pop in the snoot if he had to listen to you yarning along about what a financial mastermind you are.

Watch out what you wish for, you might actually get it.

The wealthiest one or two percent of our population are those who own companies, and who employ people.

Cut into their livelihood with increased personal taxes, capital gains taxes, and payroll taxes, and they will make that up somewhere else....as in laying people off, or not giving them those nice Christmas bonuses to which we've all grown accustomed.

Obama keeps saying that it isn't possible to increase revenues by closing loopholes, and removing some deductions that are absolutely ridiculous. (like being able to write off vehicles over a certain gross weight).

But, that math is there, and it would be better to make up the money that way, than to cut people out of future employment, or salary/benefits to which they would otherwise be entitled.

Everyone is overlooking two things here, that are true: first, the rate increases that Obama is talking about for the wealthiest Americans are well beyond what the tax-rates were for them when Clinton was in office. If you don't think they'll make up for the loss by reducing "overhead" you're out of your mind. Secondly, you cannot tax your way to prosperity. The only way to improve our fiscal deficiency is with controlled spending, and that means cutting entitlement programs like welfare and food stamps.

The future House and Senate members will be key in the ability to correct our current continued decline as a nation.

President Obama has shown no real or honest interest in doing it.

He will be beginning a 20 day vacation in Hawaii in a few days - Costs to the taxpayer - $4 million dollars

The taxpayer is currently paying $1.4 billion dollars to support our first family each year.

The Royal Family in England, all members, are supported at an annual cost of $5.78 million a year.

The Class Warfare issue seems hypocritical doesn't it?

Beverly in Chicago

@Tomas I agree Joe is a looney tune

kaybeetoys-

Fortunately, a majority of Americans do care about their neighbors, their communities and our country. We don't need right-wing "Christian" evangelical bigots to teach us morality

Jody, Iowa-

That is a result of trickle down thinking as well as short-sighted private sector greed of paying its workers less

Thank you ladies, you're the BEST!!!

We have become a Plutocrasy, NOT a capitolistic society.

For 30 years it's been about the wealthy lowering the dignity and value of the American workers. From the hatred of unions to gutting pensions to cutting benefits, the Wealthy are trying to de-value and de-humanize the middle class.

I say NO MORE.

Fight for your dignity. Fight for your rights.

Your life has value. Your education has value. Your experience has value.

Time for the wealthy to start paying American workers what they are WORTH.

That is what fair is.

It's NOT a handout.

It's NOT the Faux term "Fair Share".

It's called R-E-S-P-E-C-T!!!

Stop favoring the wealthy, and start favoring your fellow middle class!!!

Salud.

I say give the President what he wants and let the chips fall where they may. Today's economy is much different than the situation in 92. If revenue grows as expected it will be nothing more than a drop in the bucket and if it doesn't then decide for yourselves depending on your political slant what it means. These buffoons are not serious about solving the problem let them roll in their own partisan swill.

I'd say you probably gave your $30,000 to a charity that pays it's CEO that $30,000 dollars as a bonus, he takes your $30,000 pays his $9,000 taxes and invests the rest to make another $30,000, while you're patting yourself on the back for stiffing the government. Again cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Cute statement and all, but at the end of the day, not a realistic one. Every economic mechanism in play today only accelerates the already ridiculous income/wealth gap between the haves and the have nots.

I do not accept the notion that one can have 250-300% increase in upper income growth vs 15-20% increase in growth of middle class over the last 30 years and conclude that the former is not in large part at the expense of the latter.

To act as though both can grow at the upper income type pace is akin to saying that housing prices can do nothing but continue to go up and up and up and up and up and up.

Rubio is incorrect. There needs to be a systemic change in how money/assets are used to create income and wealth and that at some level will indeed be making the rich somewhat poorer.

Ridiculously well said Allen! Kudos.

Joe in Albany's post just illustrates what I've said about Obama's insistence on raising tax rates as opposed to addressing loopholes (aka deductions). As long was we have a convoluted tax system, the wealthy will use the resources they have to find ways to avoid paying taxes. If you really want to increase the effective tax rate, the first thing that should be looked at is simplifying the tax code.

By the way, I'm not advocating (or rejecting) increasing tax revenue...I'm just giving my 2 cents (as a CPA) on the best way to get additional tax revenue from the wealthy.

@jack in portsmouth

Intelligent, rational discussion of issues facing our nation today is anathema to you.

This is rather hilarious considering how many of the left on the site refuse to do the same...Fiesty, for example. Most of her comments are just hate filled jabs at the other side, with no positive or rational discussion.

Does it really bother you to be called out for the posturing, parasitic, greed-driven phony that you make yourself appear to be? Could it be that all of the slings and arrows are getting to you?

________________________________________

Not in the least, comrade Trotsky. In fact I find it Hillaryous!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, "This second post is brought to you by the amateur MORONS that program this crappy website:" was referring to the clunky, junky, prorgamming of the software that runs this site. When I hit the post comment button it gave me an error and when I clicked on the OK button it posted my comment twice. It happens to other posters all the time.

instead of picking on joe in albany you should be wondering why there is no obama in washington.

WTF are you talking about?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule

TO: ZMan2012 who wrote:

"Watch out what you wish for, you might actually get it. The wealthiest one or two percent of our population are those who own companies, and who employ people. Cut into their livelihood with increased personal taxes, capital gains taxes, and payroll taxes, and they will make that up somewhere else....as in laying people off, or not giving them those nice Christmas bonuses to which we've all grown accustomed..."

I disagree.

The top 1 an 2%ers have their money working for them, it's not them working for paychecks anymore.

They're investors, not "evil" bosses.

I'd be more inclined to believe that the Top 2% are much more interested in the Stock Market remaining and continuing to move above 13,000 than whatever you're rambling about.

However, even those who are in business for themselves have seen record profits over the past 4 years and haven't been inclined to allow ANY of their good fortune "trickle down" to their employees.

So yeah, I say tax them. Another 4 cents on the dollar should slide right off their backs. Now if those rich bosses that you're talking about has chose to give their employees raises, which would have increased their cost of doing business, they probably would have gotten more tax breaks instead of tax bills.

This is brilliant: “By the way, why does the GOP claim Obama is offering no entitlement cuts when they (GOP) claimed Obama cut $716 Billion from Medicare Advantage last month??? What a bunch GOP of Liars.”

As to Albany Joe’s “clever” scheme, it comes down to this. Joe makes $60,000. He gives $30,000 to charity, and then he doesn’t have to pay taxes on the other $30,000. Two things to note: (a) he paid 50% in charity to avoid 15% in taxes. No way he is as rich as claimed if he’s that stupid. (b) The federal government keeps our roads going, covers unemployment, defends the country, etc. I’d bet whatever Joe’s charity is would spend the money paying the charity’s board salary, or for gasoline for the reverend’s gold plated Cadiallac. (c) The irony is that the GOP plan would limit deductions to some value (Romney suggests $17,000 once), meaning Joe would give $30,000 to charity and still have to pay taxes on $43,000 = $6450. Still like the GOP’s plan, Joe?

If Joe wants to stick it to himself just because he is angry at the government, who cares if charity wins?

Akeem - the devil is in the detail. For all we know, the Albanian contributed to the JACO Charity, an acronym for Joe in Albany Chump Organization, dedicated to funding the needs of whiny guys in Albany named Joe that spend their time living off the benefits of government while avoiding paying taxes.

Albany Joe - your ridiculous statement that people hate the rich is just that - ridiculous. No one hates anyone who has achieved success. And, there are more successful Democrats than Republicans. The difference? Democrats are willing to pay more not to have the middle class descimated - Republicans just don't give a damn!

Democrats realize that it is the middle class that makes this country successful - not the wealthy. The middle class and poor work and do all the jobs that put money in the pockets of investors. Without the middle class and poor - there would be no United States.

I realize this is hard for you to comprehend since you have tunnel vision. Get a smart person to explain it to you!

billybob-6210632....you said:

Quote.....ian -- your assessment is interesting. while it is clear that joe is doing nothing illegal the same cannot be said of tax cheaters like al sharpton with whom the president discusses tax fairness and let's not forget his treasury secretary either. do you hold the same opinion of everyone that works to lessen their tax burden? warren buffett and barack obama as examples?......EndQuote

We all know many tax avoidance ploys have been codified into our code. We also know finding and marketing exploits in the code is a large and profitable industry. Of course, some folks are tax criminals who simply ignore our laws.

It is one thing to minimize one's tax burden. It is quite another to employ lobbyists to purchase tax legislation favorable to a specific group from unethical legislators. Often this legislation creates tax ploys that are unknown and/or unavailable to average tax payers. It is one such as this that Joe in Albany describes boastfully.

The (alleged or otherwise) tax misbehavior of Rev. Sharpton, the others you mentioned, or any of a host of republicans is no more relevant to discussion of whether our tax code is unfair than slavery ownership by elected officials would be relevant to discussions of whether slavery is evil.

Those who avail themselves of these tax avoidance schemes should realize that other families must pay higher taxes to compensate for their behavior. It matters not whether these avoiders are republicans, democrats, or any other political persuasion. They are contributing to the inequities and iniquities that create cynicism and demands for change.

Democrats and fair-minded others must work hard to undo decades of convoluted tax law intended to benefit the few at the expense of the many. Perhaps we will have that opportunity since republicans seem intent on demolishing all but their regional political power bases.

The struggle for justice can and must never end so long as evil pursues its agenda.

So why did the Democrats win the Presidency?

There are now 47 million families that get free food and cash aid, and they credit the Democrats for 'giving' them that largess. At $550 per month average, that's about $300 Billion per year in 'freebies'.

These families are typically also the ones that get an average of about $440 Billion per year in free health care (Medicaid - that figure comes from Obama's 2013 Budget projections).

That amounts to a total of about $740 Billion per year in 'free benefits' that these 47 million families get each year, which amounts to about 70% of the $1.1 Trillion Deficit.

These people have become dependent upon the government, so they naturally will continue to vote for the Democrats. A cynic might suggest that the Democrats are 'buying votes with taxpayer funds', but of course that would be considered 'heartless towards those in need', or even 'racist'.

In addition, the Democrats keep promising 'Amnesty' for the 11 million illegal immigrants in this country, so the 12 million Hispanics that vote will naturally want to vote overwhelmingly in favor of the Democrats who promise to let their friends and relatives stay here and be eligible to work (competing with legal American workers), as well as getting welfare benefits. Ironically, the Democrats don't actually want to 'pass' Amnesty, because it would remove a valuable campaign tactic that they use over and over.

Since Obama got about 65 million of the 126 million votes in this last election, but won by only about 4 million votes, this huge group of roughly 50 million that has become 'dependent' on the government will form a formidable voting block that will ensure the Democrats maintain power well into the future. So how many of the roughly 50 million families that have become dependent on the government voted for the Democrats for purely selfish reasons (Don't touch my benefits)? If only 4 million of the 50 million voted for continued 'free benefits' from the Democrats, that was enough to ensure a Democratic victory. According to exit polls, Obama won this group by almost 11 million votes.

Ironically, even though these policies by the Democrats will drag down future economic growth, ensure high unemployment, and make everyone 'poorer' - witness the $5,000 (10%) drop in average family income over the last 4 years, this actually helps the Democrats win even more votes because it creates even more people that will become 'dependent on the government'.

All of this comes at a great cost (witness the $740 Billion per year spent on welfare and Medicaid above) and the huge cost to taxpayers of the massively growing Debt (which Obama's Budget projects to increase to $20.379 TRILLION within less than 4 years - even if he gets his 'tax increase on the wealthy'). The Debt was only $9.986 Trillion at the end of fiscal 2008. But the 50 million that get welfare and free medical care don't really care about that, because they know that 'someone else will have to pay for that' (those who actually pay income taxes).

And of course the Democrats will continue to 'play to their base' by claiming 'the rich don't pay their fair share', and the Republicans are 'heartless and racist' for calling for 'entitlement reform'.

We are well on our way to the ruin that Greece brought upon itself by promising benefits that we can't afford.

PS – The Democrats also do not care that much about improving education in this country because uneducated people are much easier to manipulate. Those that dropped out of High School voted for Obama by a 63% to 35% margin. And an important constituency is teachers unions that fight against any education reforms.

Just Say No.

For everyone wishing to see a third party emerge, all you have to do is look at how the Republican'ts

are gyrating, squirming and squealing like the stuck little piggies they are. Having lost decisively to

the President and losing in both Houses, they are now trying to not be hoisted on their petard of

"sequestration" and tax obliteration. Republican'ts were so confident they were going to win in

November and then, "Hurt Locker" style, they would cut the blue wire and everything would stay

in it's right place.

They didn't count on an informed electorate smashing their crystal ball and letting them tap dance

on the bloody shards. (It was probably made in Bangladesh anyway, just sayin'.) Now they are

displaying typical schismatic (callback yo!) behavior, while the Democrats can continue to offer the

same policies on which they campaigned and won the election. The President and Democratic

legislators should "Just Say NO" to these ridiculous Republican't proposals and in the new Congress

and watch the mitosis of the Republican'ts as the new party of twenty first century Know Nothings

and Golden Circle (hope that's obscure enough) Birchers break away like crumbs from the stale

Melba toast that represents the Republican't political philosophy.

I'm feeling it. :)

Republicans would be fools to expect that the Dems will be willing to reciprocate in any way. That just gives the Dems a better starting point for getting even more of what they want.

The solution? Give it to them, fall back and wait. Wait for the coming recession. Wait for the continued explosion of debt to sink in. Wait for the time a year or 18 months from now when conservatives will be able to say to the American people, "See, we told you this would happen. We gave them what they wanted and this is the result. Rising unemployment again. The worst recovery in US history turned into another economic downturn. This is what happens when we have the tax and spend social engineering policy of the Dems." Conservatives should start making plans now to pick up the pieces so they can implement them quickly beginning Jan. 2017.

Albany Joe -

You aren't even a good greedy bastard...

Capital gains tax on the first stock would be $20,000 X.15 = $3,000. Capital gains tax on the second would be $30,000 X .15 = $4,500.

In your scenario, you end up with $50,000 paying $0 in taxes.

You could have had $72,500 paying $7,500 in taxes.

Unless you were always going to donate $30,000 to your charities (and that's exactly why the charitiable exemption rule is there), tell me how that is a real WIN, WIN, WIN, WIN!!

Moron!

"As long was we have a convoluted tax system, the wealthy will use the resources they have to find ways to avoid paying taxes. If you really want to increase the effective tax rate, the first thing that should be looked at is simplifying the tax code."

There's a lot to this (Romney's pension should never be treated as capital gains; that is outrageous that modest retirees pay income tax on their pensions but wealthy ones do not). The problem is a good re-writing of the tax code would require honesty and co-operation between the parties that is just not possible now. Raising the rates is simple and can be done immediately.

Also - a lot of those deductions are of value. Romeny's plan to limit deductions to $17,000, for example, would be a disaster for California, where home mortgages are frequently $24,000/year alone. Plus deductions for corporate investment are a great way to fund business expansion and therefore job creation. Messing with the tax code is a great idea if you have a group of brilliant, honest CPAs with no pressure from lobbyists, but that is not possible when corporate money and the very wealthy own over half of our politicians in the House.

Joe in Albany, you would like for us all to believe in your generosity, your altruism, your genuine concern.

But, your words betray you. You are no more that a tax cheat. It is financial shenanigans such as yours that have made our current problems. You would rather "stiff" America than contribute to its growth and success in any way. You claim to be "supporting" but you are really more concerned with supporting yourself.

How sad.

Roy Wilsn - your post is ignorant - at best. There are 47 million people receiving government assistance because of a horrible recession - not because they don't want to work or want to continue getting government assistance.

This is where Republicans show their hatred for people who are having a difficult time - even though many of those are senior citizens; veterans who are having a difficult time assimilating back into normal society; children whose parents may work two jobs in order to put a roof over their heads but still can't find money to feed them. But, you would be happy to see them all suffering. Pretty much tells the story of the Republican party - a sad, disgusting group of people who just don't give a damn!

I'm so glad Boehner called out Obama today.

The ball is now in Obama's court and what he is doing? He is meeting with MSNBC's personnel: Rachel Maddow, Al "Racist" Sharpton and that McDonnell guy. Why??????

I know what Obama is trying to do and I think Boehner has Obama figured out that's why he called him out.

Of my, Obama doesn't have a clue on how to work with Congress.

Jack.....Although O'Reilly is a tool he is correct....Christianity is a Philosophy..The actual religion is Catholicism, Episcopalian, Protestant et al.....

The GOP has been married to the same bad math and ideas for years. How do all you 60 to 80 year olds feel about voting GOP now? Now that it has been revealed that the GOP wants to take your Social Security cost of living increases away during a time of high gas and living expenses. How do you feel now that it has been revealed that the GOP wants to make many less of you eligible of Medicare? Now that they want to cut Medicare. Something they tried to blame Obamacare for doing which it DID NOT. How do you feel now that it has been revealed that they want less of you to even be eligible of social security by raising the age of recieving the funds you paid into? You better hope your kids and grandkids will let you live with them because if the GOP gets their way you'll lose your independence and ability to live in your own homes. You voted for them now you may get what you asked for. Did know that the GOP considered you part of the 47% did you?

Joe in Albany: Referring to your 1.5 above, you are a typical conservative who does not think through all of the consequences of their actions.

You started by saying you had two stocks: #1 you bought for $10,000, now worth $ 30,000

#2 you bought for $20,000, now worth $50,000

Total: $30,000 cost, now worth $80,000, or $50,000 worth of gain.

If your intention is to give $30,000 to Charity, then the plan is a good one.

If your intention is to not pay any taxes, also not a bad plan.

If your intention is to keep as much money as possible, selling off the stocks, recognizing the gain and giving away some to charity is not what you want to do. If you give away $30,000 to avoid paying $7500 in capital gains taxes that is not really a smart business plan.

Giving away stock #1 and selling off Stock # 2 before year end, you end up with $50,000.

If you just sell of stock # 2 (keeping Stock #1,) you pay capital gains tax on the $30,000, netting $45,500 cash, and you would have a total of $75,500.

If you sell off #1 (keeping #2) you pay capital gains on the $20,000, netting $ $27,000 cash and $77,000 overall.

Of course, if you need at least $50,000 cash, you would have to sell off some of #1 and all of #2.

So you see, it all depends on your objectives. Planning solely to not pay taxes is not really a good business plan. Its like spending money to get a "free" item. The item is not really free.

The freedoms granted by our Constitution have to be protected. Unfortunately, that means paying for two wars that were started without being paid for and almost 40 years of trickle down economic theories that have not worked.

So why did the Democrats win the Presidency?

There are now 47 million families that get free food and cash aid, and they credit the Democrats for 'giving' them that largess. At $550 per month average, that's about $300 Billion per year in 'freebies'.

These families are typically also the ones that get an average of about $440 Billion per year in free health care (Medicaid - that figure comes from Obama's 2013 Budget projections).

Once again, a complete whif by Roy Wilson (as per the usual)...

Do you not think that there are poor, rural, white families living in West Virginia in a broken down trailer, flying a confederate flag out front, and collecting welfare? And you think these people are Democratic voters?

Why did the D's win the election? Cause the public is/was smart enough to see through the bull@!$%# talking points posited by the Republicans (such as the "47%" meme) whereas apparently Roy is not...

All of the Dems are worried about the middle class tax cuts but who gave them to the middle class in the first place? I know Republicans, so now the Dems are terribly worried about the middle class, yea right. For the few who are paying attention all taxes are going to go up, as always the Dems will refer to them as fees.

Beverly in Chicago---You are correct except for one thing Clinton balanced his budget by spending what money? Like a corporate raider of the ninties the good old SS trust fund. You have a short memory or just forgot to include that fact. Nice try though, quoting Reagan and all.

American Girl-724855---What business are you in, some have seen profits, but to compare the 1 per-centers to all business entities is illogical. You forget the vast majority of businesses are small and if they have not gone out of business yet, are just maintaining the line. These taxes affect all business not just the biggies. Quit drinking the kool-aid

All the posturing the teabaggers do ... "We're the ONLY real Americans! ... We're protecting the values this country was founded upon! ... America is a Christian nation and it's time we Christians re-took the country! ... We are the only ones who want to uphold the Constitution! ... BLAH ... BLAH .... BLAH"

America is made up of all different types of people who hold diverse beliefs. No one linear belief system is the ONLY way ... there is no black & white, it is all shades of gray and "fringe" is simply a matter of geography. America was founded, in part, on freedom OF religion ... but it sure as hell wasn't founded on freedom of ONLY ONE religion.

They shoot their beliefs at us, wanting laws passed based on the old testament, while ignoring the book that is supposed to represent their faith. They have no compassion for the poor, the weak, the lame or the helpless. They look at those of us who are willing to help the less fortunate and mistake our kindness for weakness. These obstructionists wear their religion like a shield and use it like a sword but the truth of the matter is, if Jesus Christ were here today he sure as hell wouldn't be a Republican!

To vote down the Disabilities Act simply so they can stand there and say they 'blocked' what the president wanted is sick. To attempt to steal Social Security and Medicare from those most in need is despicable. To be so greedy that they would be willing to withhold necessities from those in need in order to provide more baskets of trinkets for those who have the most is unthinkable. To be willing to destroy the economy of our nation just to obstruct a president who is not of their party (or their race, for that matter) should be called treason.

This is NOT what the governed want from their elected representatives. This is not what our nation needs from the House and Senate. This is not promoting the ideal of what America could be. How dare these people continue to try to destroy our country for the sole purpose of lining their pockets and those of their wealthy contributors.

There are too many saviors on my cross, lending their blood to flood out my ballot box with needs of their own. Who put you there? Who told you that was your place? You carry me secretly naked in your heart, and clothe me publicly in armor, crying God is on our side. Yet I openly cry who is on mine? Who?

...There is no issue stronger than the tissue of love, no need as holy as the palm outstretched
in the run of generosity; no monstrosity greater than the acre you inflict Who gave you the right to increase your fold, and decrease the pastors of my flock? Who gave you the right? Who gave it to you? Who? And in whose name do you fight?

I am not in heaven, I am here, hear me. I am in you, feel me. I am of you, be me. I am with you, see me. I am for you, need me. I am all mankind; only through kindness, will you reach me.

... Do not grow tongues in your dying dumb wounds speaking my name; I am not your prize in your death, you have exorcised me in your game of politics. Go home to your knees, and worship me in any cloth, as I was never tailor-made. Who told you I was? Who gave you the right to think it? Take your beads in your crippled hands; can you count my decades? Take my love in your crippled hearts; can you count the loss?

I am not Orange, I am not Green; I am a half-ripe fruit needing both colors to grow into ripeness. Shame on you to have withered my orchard.

I, in my poverty, alone, without trust, cry shame on you! Shame on you again and again, for converting me into a bullet, and shooting me into men's hearts.

-Richard Harris (excerpt from: There Are Too Many Saviors On My Cross)

Roy Wilson: You are intitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. Do you really believe that poor people sponging off the government got $740billion from the government last year?

"a recent study (Norton & Ariely, 2010) showing that most Americans (high income or low income, female or male, young or old, Republican or Democrat) have no idea just how concentrated the wealth distribution actually is..." --

www.2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

You should read that source. The lowest 40% of Americans have 0.3% of the national wealth. In our $15t economy, that is just $45billion net total wealth. And you think these "spongers" are getting $740 billion per year of your tax dollars?

Don't be such a gullible dupe. If you want to look for spongers, look at people like the richest 400 Americans in Forbes magazine worth $1,300 billion, or 30 times more than the lower 120,000,000 Americans added together.

Do not let yourself become manipulated into being a subservient fool.

SO JOE from Albany

Are you a Job creator? Have you created jobs for the little people with your Bush era tax cuts? The problem with the Bush era aristocracy for you is that its coming to an END...

Just hope that the little people dont decide to bring back the guillotine

American Girl, I would be much more sympathetic to the plight of the "98%" if they were to say to every business start-up that opens, "I'll work for whatever you can afford to pay and won't leave for a better financial situation for as long as it takes for you to be successful." Imagine business start-ups guaranteed to have office staff, bookkeepers, warehouse workers, sales associates all for what the business could afford to pay. Better yet have them put their homes and future earnings on the line too. That of course wouldn't ever happen though, not once they figured out that 80% of business start-ups fail and that they never would see a paycheck and probably lose their house.

Instead of sharing the risk and reaping the reward, they instead want to simply choose which of the 1 in 5 businesses that actually succeed to work for and then bitch and moan about not getting what they deserve. You deserve as much of the reward as the reciprocal amount of risk you took.

Revdes no I am completely aware, I was just trying to point out as many have already that Joe's plan is not some great scheme he and his CPA worked out. It is rather dumb and in fact, if it is a real charity, he isn't even stiffing the government either. At the end of the day it is stupid and if his goal was in fact simply not to pay taxes, and not the donation it self, it is a plan that would only be employed by some idiot who hates the government so much he would make himself worse off to prove it.

The government created the chariatable deduction to promote charitable distributions. I am sure no one on Capitol Hill is upset they lost 7,500 in potential tax revenue to spur 30k in charitable contributions. The tax schemes Romney was accused of were far more elaborate and the money saved from taxes were transferred to himself or a family member, not someone else.

GOP here is fair warning:

Go against your conservative supporters and you will lose every one of us. You see liberals already hate the GOP - but that is because they don't understand how an economy works. They support liberal thinking that, when used, has failed every time: California, Detroit, Chicago, and New Jersey (before Chris Christie fixed). And they will hate the GOP whether you support tax increases or not.

So why give in to the unintelligent liberals? It won't help your base. HOWEVER, if you give into raising taxes then 2012 will be the LAST year about 50% of your base will consider a Republican again.

I said in 2010 that was the LAST chance the Republican Party would get my vote if they did not move back to strong conservative values - which they did (thanks to the Tea Party movement). I have voted Republican in EVERY election since 1980 (Reagan against Carter) and 2010 the Republican party moved back to conservative values. Then they said all the "right things" in 2012.

But now looks like they are shifting back to a "Democrat Lite" platform. Do that and the Republican Party is done - is finished. Just like the Whig Party. Raise taxes BEFORE any MASSIVE spending cuts then you are done. The Republican Party will be just a passing comment within 10 years. Myself, and many fellow patriots, will be done with the Republican Party and will either shift to a Libertarian Party or Tea Party.

But isn't the Republican Party smart enough to see this is the Obama plan? To create "in-fighting" among the Republicans and split us up? And they may very well be successful because the Republican Party is on shaky ground. We conservatives are TIRED of hearing "but we need to nominate a moderate like John McCain because he is the only one that can win" then gets spanked in the election. Then we hear "but we need to nominate a moderate like Mitt Romney because he is the only one that can win" then gets spanked in the election. But in 1980 we were told "You CAN'T nominate an 'extremist' like Ronald Reagan - he CAN'T win!!" but won handily.

So Republican Party you are on shaky ground. Make the wrong decision here and you are done - finished!! I and many other patriots will write you off and you will never get our votes again. Stand for conservative values - or stand alone..........

Jo Ann - 666.... And in my opinion, your opinion is just more Republican nonsense and whining. You lost - get over it!

pb

You are so out to lunch. The teabaggers have destroyed the once sane GOP. I left the party after the inmates started to run the insane asylum that is now the GNOP. The two party system is in danger of complete ca lapse if the "good old White boys club" doesn't change its ways.

Know when to hold'ed or fold'em?? really?? because our future and economy is like a card game??

Good heavens, reading all this makes my blood run cold. I can't believe so many are so shortsighted and (evidently) so lacking in understanding of what's going on here and the debt and fiscal policy problems we're facing. Worse than that, I wonder how many are actually being willfully blind and ignoring what's coming when they darn well know better or ought to.

Raising taxes won't do a lick of good and--guess what!--tax hikes are coming down the pike for the rest of us too. I can just about 99% guarantee it. There isn't enough wealth among the "rich" in the country to deal with the problem through taxation, even if we confiscated nearly everything. Any real increases in revenue will be minimal and won't even balance the budget and pay for our current debt, much less the SS, Medicare, and Medicaid obligations that are already here and coming down the pike shortly. And those increases will stall our economic growth, while the implementation of Obamacare starts to take hold and fully sends it all into a tailspin. How can people not see that these people who've been put in power only seek to provide perks to their supporters and pursue their social agenda and pet projects? They either honestly have no grasp of economic reality (which is my suspicion in all but a few cases) or they're actually deliberately trying to drive this country into economic ruin.

We don't have time to kick the can down the road yet again. It's only going to get harder and harder to deal with our debt problem, with more and more pain and fewer and fewer options, as more unfunded liabilities pile up. I just feel bad for the innocents who will have to bear the fallout.

For all the lefty liberal morons questioning my plan, I'm re-posting my response in #1.69 below. See if it will sink into your thick skulls this time.

LMFAO@U!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mo said: So let me get this straight Joe in Albany. You give $30,000 away to save $15,000 in taxes.

_________________________________________

Mo-ron: No, I give $30,000 away to charities to support the good work they do.

The tax savings is just icing on the cake of supporting charities I like.

Legally stiffing Barry and the loony left on the taxes is just for pure pleasure.

Life is good.

Enjoy.

Oh, no Tomas... you gave away our pagan secrets... didn't the coven warn that you will have to be punished? Sounds like fun, doesn't it? Party on!

Marco Rubio the moron "Not by making rich people poorer, but by making poor people richer."

IT IS THE SAME THING MORON. The amount of material wealth or resources on this planet does not change. Therefore, to make poor people "richer" while rich people stay at the same amount would actually make rich people "poorer" you stupid chit. Each time the numbers go up we need the Federal Reserve to print us out some MORE money, which we have to pay interest on, and adds to our debt. Increasing the size of the "pool" only adds MORE pollution, uses up what little resources we have left even faster, and leaves less overall revenue per person. Making the numbers go up and up for no f***ing reason other then to trick people into "believing" they are getting more and to keep chasing after carrots like an a$$ is asinine.

This guy is going to be running for vice president next election and people will vote for him...

No matter how you look at it, it is wealth redistribution. Over the past 30 years or so the rich redistributed the wealth of the middle class to themselves, which has killed the economy since they vacuumed up all the money. Now we need to redistribute it back to the middle class or else via a tax guillotine, which encourages rich people to pay their workers more, reinvest, give to charity, etc. and still pay for roads, police, education, etc. The other option is the rich take their money and move, which is redistributing wealth ANYWAYS. Every time a job is shipped overseas THAT IS WEALTH REDISRIBUTION morons. You have been redistributing our wealth for over 30 years now WTF are you crying about?

Since you want to move why not move to Belize or some other country like it? I hear there are some vacant mansions down there. Imagine all the fun you will have there.

Jody,

I wanted to add to your Wal-Mart comments. My brother-in-law works for a distribution center and during down times they force their employees with the lowest seniority to take voluntary lay-offs. During the lay-off period they all collect unemployment. Then when business picks up again they usually call all of them back. I would say these people are on unemployment about 3-4 months per year instead of Wal-Mart having to pay them during their down time we all subsidize their employees. This needs to stop. Wal-Mart is the king of corporate welfare.

Ed

NBC the PR for Obama dismiss comments from Howard Dean and others high rank Democrats who consider a good thing to go over the cliff. So, Obama leave the high taxes to the millionaires and billionaires ( people that make over $ 250 thousand ) and bring back the lower taxes to the rest and then blame Republicans. This is how Obama wants to lead this Nation, His way or the Highway. However , our kids are going to pay for this never ending increase of debt, because this Obama administration can leave with it's means.

Rob,

Jack.....Although O'Reilly is a tool he is correct....Christianity is a Philosophy..The actual religion is Catholicism, Episcopalian, Protestant et al.....

Really? Jon Stewart said it better than I will ever be able to.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/04/jon-stewart-bill-oreilly-war-on-christmas_n_2237735.html?ir=Media

Worm Meat:

Our economy is more like a roulette wheel...........only the colors are red and blue.

Roy Wilson-

PS – The Democrats also do not care that much about improving education in this country because uneducated people are much easier to manipulate. Those that dropped out of High School voted for Obama by a 63% to 35% margin. And an important constituency is teachers unions that fight against any education reforms

Honestly Roy, is this your opinion?

Where did you get this "information". Please do tell us

So Roy, what's your solution.

Round up all the "freeloaders" and lead them into the "showers?"

It's the uneducated people who watch Faux, Roy.

It's the conservative media who is "dumbing down" their viewers as evident by your column.

Democrats LOVE education Roy. We are the ones that go to all those "Liberal" colleges, and we are the ones that have Teacher's Unions, and we are the ones that encorgage Math, Science, and Humanities.

Your broad generalizations about Democrats are BS, Roy.

You know NOTHING about Democrats.

But go ahead and keep advocating for an American Arian Race so people like yourself can flourish and survive.

The poor people who have had the misfortune to have been born into poverty should just die according to you.

They should just work harder right, Roy?

Or mayby they should just change their skin color?

The problem Roy, is that the wealthy have slammed alot of those doors closed , doors that us Liberals opened to give people a CHANCE to move up.

To put down fellow American's and label them "freeloaders" at the same time YOU advocate polices that CREATE a society of freeloaders, is increadibly hypocritical.

But keep supporting Corporate Welfare, and Corporate Tax breaks, and no Corporate regulations, because THOSE type of people are acceptable to you.

Salud

Marcus D - you continue to show EVERYONE how totally dense you are - even though this has been explained to you ad infinitum.

The First Family pays their own expenses for everything - food, clothes, vacations, etc. The taxpayers DO NOT pay these items. We pay - as we have for EVERY PRESIDENT - for their security details and staff - the number of which is the same for the Obamas and it was for the Bush's. And, the Bush's took MORE vacations than the Obamas have in the same time period.

The First Family will be vacationing but the President still works - he doesn't take 20 days off. He is ALWAYS in communications with his administration, the pentagon, everyone.

We DO NOT spend 1.4 billion dollars every year on the First Family you dolt! And, we don't spend any more on this first family as we have on past first families.

No go crawl back under your rock!

Just extend my middle class tax cut and let Boehner, McConnell, and their bribing corporate GOP supporters drive themselves off the cliff....The GOP has fed at the trough long enough...

Ignore Roy Wilson. He's little more than a troll who has been copying and pasting that same thing on every article since the election.

Not to mention, the entire premise of his post defies logic. It always amuses me when some conservatives talk themselves into circles. Here's how their logic goes:

1.) People on welfare and unemployment are lazy, bloodsuckers who don't want to work.
2.) The high unemployment rate is Obama's fault.
3.) Only those who are unemployed and not being taxed would vote for Obama because he gives them free stuff.

Now put these three pieces of information together. This implies that everyone who lost their job during the recession and ended up welfare and unemployment have suddenly turned into lazy bloodsuckers. They were working before, but now they are collecting welfare and so they have become evil.

This also implies those people who lost their jobs voted for Obama despite it apparently being all Obama's fault that they don't have jobs.

Also, this implies that these conservatives are blaming Obama for not creating more jobs while simultaneously believing that the unemployed wouldn't take the jobs anyway and would instead sit around, collecting their government checks, ignoring their six children and watching Maury.

These ideas are so blatantly illogical, but some conservatives have to make these strange leaps to support this narrative that everything is the poor and Obama's fault.

Also, some facts:
The vast majority of people on welfare are on it less than 18 months

The average number of a children a woman on welfare has: 2
The average number of children of American women overall: 2

The vast majority of the poor are working poor. Meaning that they actually do have jobs. Those who don't consist primarily of the elderly or infirm.

Many companies like Walmart and McDonalds do not pay a living wage or benefits and many of their employees are on food stamps. Thus, taxpayers foot the bill for Walmart's bottom line so they can pay their employees as little as possible to maximize their profits. If you want to be angry, be angry at those companies who are supposedly "trickling down the wealth" by hiring workers, paying them so little they still have to rely on government assistance, and we all then pay for their huge profits with our taxes. This, btw, is just one example of why top down economics doesn't work. It does primarily benefit the wealthy, leaving the poor with not enough income or benefits to survive and the middle class to pick up the tax burden of those people's government assistance.

I'd like to also point out that many small businesses were already providing health insurance for their employees before ACA, whereas many large companies were not. That means these small business somehow managed to post profits while paying their employee a decent wage AND benefits, yet these huge business can't manage this? Seems odd, doesn't it? The ACA is primarily going to affect those large companies who are underpaying and underbenefitting their employees. Which is a good thing for all of us.

Lastly, I am not at all moved by the threats of the rich and big business to "leave" if they have to pay their fair share of taxes. Let them leave. While we might suffer for a short time, their absence will provide a vacuum that small businesses can fill again. Small businesses -- like those who were run out by Walmart -- can begin to grow again. Small businesses who actually cared enough about their employees to give them benefits BEFORE the healthcare bill was passed. Small businesses who actually want to hire and grow local economies. And maybe, just maybe, we'll learn this time around the super conglomerates do not help the economy, but rather make things worse.

FoxTrotsky

We can always count on the slimy, smarmy, smug likes of Albany Joe to provide us with a reminder of exactly why so many Americans hate the idle rich non-productive class- especially those of us who have spent our entire lives engaged in pursuits that actually add value to the economy.

Oh I don't know, I'm sure he had to work for the money to invest in the first place, as my husband I did, and where I only have maybe half of his amount I'm taking his plan to my CPA to see if it'll work for us too.

I'm also pretty sure those charities are not going to mind having an exta 30 thousand do you?

My reasoning for doing all of this in the first place is so that when we retire in 20-30+ years, we'll have a retirement and if we actually get SS it'll be exactly what it was meant to be supplemental.

So let me get this right, Joe. You started out with $50,000 per your example, and now you have $50,000 in cash (several years later). To me the only one who wins here is the Charity, and that makes me feel REAL GOOD! Glad to see someone helping out the needy, the 47% group, like you are. And if you are helping out that group, you are helping out President Obama. So the 47% gets your money one way or the other, and that makes us all happy. Since you do not rank up there with the Super Rich, you can make these transactions with no problems. The thing is the Super Rich have to take what you have done and up it to an exponential power with all their gains. But the Tax laws will limit their yearly Charitable Deduction, so they cannot offset all their Capital Gains with Charitable Donations, and will have to pay Taxes. Joe, that is the difference between being in the $250,000+ group like them, and the $250,000- group like you.

I see the same old blah, blah, blah. The Democrats are educated, skilled, and smart...the Republicans are uneducated, unskilled, and dumb. "Walmart" is greedy and should pay their workers more. NEWSFLASH...if the Republicans are the uneducated/unskilled ones, then they are probably the ones working at Walmart or flipping burgers! Therefore, why do Dems even care about those stupid Republicans? The story keeps changing all the time to fit whatever crap some of you are peddling that day! It is absolutely amazing that all these uneducated Republicans became "rich old white men". However that happened isn't fair, but it must have been Bush's fault because no one could have gotten rich under Clinton! We need to take their money and increase government spending! Boy, that is a REALLY intelligent solution to our economic and foreign relations problems. (Sarcasm intended.)

The President and Democrats hold the rightful political syntax here. Let none cave, lest the power of corresponding nuance be compromised. Build on it with careful and deliberate policies, pleasing and beneficial to the people. Keep 'em together Mr. President. Keep 'em together! The country needs jobs. This requires equality. The trap of liquidity is killing us all.

Joe In Albany

The tax shelter situation you describe in comment #1.5 is called a Charitable Remainder Trust. This is a huge way of sheltering income, and is theorized how Romney could claim such large charitable giving for the years he refused to release his tax returns. There's a lot of discussion about closing this loophole, but since there's so many millionaires using this, existing ones are legacied in, while new ones cannot be established under the more generous rules.

Fact is, most of the middle class (yes, the ones that do pay taxes) do not have the disposable income available to use these kinds of loopholes. Is this one of the deductions the GOP would close to raise revenues and simplify the tax code? I think not.

While I recognize your freedom to express whatever view you might wish on this board, the obvious vitriol you spew out suggests you just get off on trying to upset other people, which is kind of a mark of sociopathic behavior. I hesitated even addressing your comment directly because I didn't want to feed into your ego, but wanted to make sure the correct term for this type of tax deduction was referenced correctly.

Suffice to say, your histrionic rants upset people much less than you think. The reasonable people here on these boards can recognize a lunatic when they see one.

In battle this is the moment every general waits for. The moment when you see the enemy lines wavering. A few men start to leave the line here and there, moving away from danger. They are no longer confident, they are no longer marching boldly forward carrying their banners proudly. Now, they are looking over their shoulders to see if the path to safety is open and trying to decide whether they should run.

This is the moment when you send in your fresh reserves and smash the enemy. The moment you send in your heavy battlefield cavalry to finish the job and then release the light cavalry to launch an aggressive pursuit, riding down the survivors and preventing them from rallying. You break them up and scatter them to the wind.

Now is the time Mr. President. The day is ours. Your tactics have proven superior and the weaknesses of the enemy's position have been revealed and now is the time to exploit those weaknesses and scatter them to the wind.

Cry havoc and release the hounds of war, Mr. President! (metaphorically speaking of course)

TomasGrande,

Honestly Roy, is this your opinion?

Rush Limbaugh may not be smart, but he is shrewd (big difference). Some years ago he decided that the best strategy when called a misogynist or racist or fascist was to turn it around and call Liberals misogynists, racists and fascists. His followers, having more space than gray matter between their ears, bought it hook, line and sinker, "Yeah, Yeah! That's right. All you Libs are fascists!"

And that's what we're seeing today. The Republicans want an uneducated public--worker bees to slave for zero benefits and low wages in Wal-Mart--which is why they rail against any news organizations that promote thinking, rational discussion, logic.

And now Rush has taken the next step, telling his followers it is the Left that is against education. . . . Which is where lowbrows like Roy come into the picture.

Like I said before the FOX Approval Poll had the president going up 4% two days ago and up 1% the day before that. Overnight he went up another 1% to 58%. The Congress on the other hand was 17% and dropped to 16.4% Play your hand and show want a bunch of (Insert the B Word) you republicans are and how you only care about geed and the rich!

Jack from Portsmouth,

Rush is a drug addict and fool! he proves it every day and there are people who believe his tripe!

I would also like to add that I'm sure Joe (like myself) contributes to causes we don't write off, my personal favorite is cup of joe for a joe, I contribute 20.00 a week, so for 80.00 a month 40 soldiers get a free cup of coffee it isn't much, but to some of them it means a lot to get a piece of home.

SeekingSanity

The First Family pays their own expenses for everything - food, clothes, vacations, etc. The taxpayers DO NOT pay these items. We pay - as we have for EVERY PRESIDENT - for their security details and staff - the number of which is the same for the Obamas and it was for the Bush's. And, the Bush's took MORE vacations than the Obamas have in the same time period

Sanity it is a shame , you are still seeking for some sanity you got it lost. We the people pay for the Obamas vacation, every single penny comes from our taxes or Chinise money, There is a big difference with the Bush, they retreat in their own House in Texas or their Beach family House in Maine, I doubt Mr. Bush bill for the use of his own vacationhouse.. Obama has no Vacation house that he owns, not in Hawaii or Martha's Vineyard where he spend vacation with the rich and famous. There is no sanity in your comments sick man. Tell me what president beside Obama , play more than 100 rounds of golf. I guess a golf turf is better than the oval office.

Fiesty, the only flush Obama is holding that which goes down toilet along with himself.

Tomas Grande,

Watch out, Republicans. We liberal pagans are everywhere, and we are taking over America, just like Glen Beck says.

Right Tomas, just keep your filthy peon hands out of my pocketbook and you'll be just fine. Go and see Obama, he has freebies for you.

Since it was the Democrats that caused the Bush tax cuts to be temporary, why not just let all the Bush/Obama tax cuts expire. Remember it was the DEMOCRATS that wanted to go back to the Clinton era tax rates after 10 years, so let them have their way.

The liberals say the rich should pay their "fair share" by paying the same rates that were in effect prior to the Bush tax cuts, so I would assume the same liberals will agree that the rates for those making less than $200/250K were considered a "fair share". I am willing to pay a little more federal taxes on my retirements and Social Security payments, so how many of you liberals and especially the far left wing nuts posting on here are willing to do the same thing?

Dennis, (post 1.2 above) Were you cheering the Republicans on when they had control of the Senate and was talking about changing the filibuster rules (remember the nuclear option)? I am willing to bet you were not and you were complaining just like the liberals were that it wouldn't be fair to the minority party.

This President is such a flip flopper, last year he states no taxes raised when the economy is struggling and yet he does the opposite. I say to all go ahead raise taxes on the rich, I hope all the businesses who are in the tax bracket start laying off and handing out the pink slips, I look forward to the high un-employment. I can't wait for the deficit to reach 20Trillion. I also cannot wait for this country to go into a recession. I hope the USA goes belly up and wound up like Greece. The blame will be the LEFT/DEMOCRATS fault and the Liberal Media, Obama stupid lovers.

Tired-2176559

Marco Rubio the moron "Not by making rich people poorer, but by making poor people richer."

IT IS THE SAME THING MORON. The amount of material wealth or resources on this planet does not change.

Actually, that's incorrect. An economy is measured by the amount of exchange of money in a society. A healthy economy has money being constantly spent, loaned, respent... that's why putting money into the hands of the people who do the actual spending stimulates the economy. Rich people don't spend money just because they have it. Poor people spend money because they need to, and the middle class spends money because they want to. The rich are needed to invest in opportunities, providing the stimulus for growth, but it's the middle class that account for the bulk of the demand, that creates opportunity, and a healthy economy.

I think Roy Wilson is an impostor. He's got to be John Sununu, Rick Santorum, Herman Cain, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Lars Larson, Karl Rove, Allen West, "Rinse" Priebus, one of those Fox and 'Friends' nuts- someone ghost writing the mindless drivel from the out-of-touch side.

Earth to RoyBoy- all your talking points were dismissed by the American electorate. In other words: YOU LOST! Your ideas are garbage!

I think it's hilarious Mutt Romney ended up with 47% of the vote!! Just desserts!

Marcus: For your edification, the President pays for his own vacation. We, the taxpayers, pay for his transportation (because, per regulations, he CANNOT fly regular air because of his position) and the security detail (which is required whether he wants it or not). If Congress and the Senate can take off the rest of the year, why is it difficult to give the President time off during the holidays also? As a note, he gets a daily briefing even when on vacation, so he's never really ON vacation. If something serious comes up, you can be sure he'll be dealing with it no matter where he's at. Just because he's on vacation doesn't mean he actually leaves the White House behind!

It astounds me that some people find it so difficult to allow our president to take a vacation and enjoy his family, especially over the Christmas/New Year's holiday. Give me a break people!! The rest of our government is on vacation, some of which is also at taxpayer's expense, so why are some people so adament about the president taking time off?

Actually, sfcret, most liberals ARE willing to pay more taxes to keep social programs going while trimming the deficit. And many ARE willing to pay more taxes for nationalized healthcare. And many ARE willing to pay more for what they see as being good for the country.

You see, many liberals actually believe in the idea that we're all in this together. Many liberals DO pay taxes and WON'T see benefits of the things they advocate for because many liberals believe that it should NOT be a dog-eat-dog, I've-got-mine-and-that's-all-that matters kind of world. Many of us are advocating on behalf of those who we see as being exploited and harmed and we do this even though the solutions we propose may not benefit us directly or may cost us more in taxes.

This is a concept it seems really hard for some conservatives to understand. This is why some conservatives assume that liberals must be the majority of people on welfare and the ones not paying taxes (despite this being untrue), because some conservatives can not fathom the idea that people would actually advocate for others and not fight just for themselves. The fact that some conservatives can't even understand that idea is really telling about who they are fighting for.

(from Joe in Albany)

"

Here’s how it works: Say, for example, I have a stock (XOM, just to annoy lefty liberals) that I paid $10,000 to buy years ago. It’s now worth $30,000. Under current tax law, if I donate that stock to the charities, I don’t have to pay any cap gains tax on the $20,000 increase in value, AND, I get a $30,000 charitable contribution deduction. Say I also own another stock (WMT, for the same reason) that I bought years ago for $20,000 that’s now worth $50,000. I sell that stock generating a taxable cap gain of $30,000. When I file my 2012 1040, that gain is totally offset by the $30,000 charitable contribution deduction, resulting in a net of ZERO taxable income and ZERO tax.

Now let's look at your proposed financial windfall. You invested a total of 30K in two stocks. One you gavce away, the other you sold for 50K. 50K - 30K = 20K is what you netted from the 30K "value increase" from your second stock since you have to remember your original investment cost.

You "self-imposed" a loss of 33 1/3% against your total opportunized profit. That's a heck of a tax dodge you got there . . . .

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City-

Haven't forgotten about the pumpkin pie, skip.

If I could send you and your lovely wife one, I would.

P.S. A little brandy with pie is also a good thing!!!

Have a great day!!!

Salud

WELL at least we can count on this trash piece of a one sided OPINION to rule the day. Dear journalist, keep pumping them up with your opinion, because we all know it is the word of GOD himself. Anyone who reads this bs should just cancel your internet.

Siobhan27 - You say that a majority of liberals are o.k. with paying more in taxes. If that is so why are they fighting so hard to have the rates go up on the so called 2% and not everyone? I have not seen or heard many liberals advocating for ALL TAX RATES to return to where they were prior to the Bush tax cuts.

Sarge,

I am shocked that you assume to know what I think just because I lean Left? You've known me long enough to know better.

The filibuster had its place in the Senate until it began to be abused which only occurred in the last decade.

The filibuster was used more times each and every month last year (except August) than it was used the entire decade of the 60's or 70' or 80's.

By the way Reddev just saw my butchering of your name earlier, wasn't done on puropose I was just typing a bit too fast!

As a former Republican staffer for a NY State Assemblyman, and former manager of a financial services brokerage, Joe in Albany is the reason I left the GOP and became an independent. Somehow a 4.3% increase in income tax and 3.7% capital gains tax increase is a "punishment". The wife and I do well, and have many investments, as a former financial sector manager would have, and know what we're doing with them? Nothing. That's right, not a damn thing. the minor taxes we will be paying to ensure a Social Safety Net for our fellow citizens isn't anywhere near enough to cause us concern. I'm glad Joe gave $30K to charities, but his reasoning is panic driven, like they guy who's convinced every shadow has someone hiding in it staring at him. Paranoid, delusional, yes. Selfish, hell yes. But given he could have dumped that money overseas, I am still glad some social good will come of it (though I suspect the unnamed charities likely don't serve everyone, preferring certain "types" over others).

True fiscal conservatives don't act this way, I know, I am one, and I have worked with them for decades. They want responsibility in spending, not "I have mine and to hell with the rest of you!" I find it ironic that during the weeks before Christmas, we get to see a real life Scrooge admitting to this thinking. Guess we are all Bob Cratchit to Joe so long as he can keep his money locked away, least those less well off than he actually get something out of the Social Contract the Constitution represents between the Government and the Citizens. Guess all those millionaires and billionaires who have been saying that this proposal isn't a big deal must all be lefties.

Ian Emdee 1.15

then his point was received by you exactly as intended...you being a dem allowed him to do this, by your own laws, and now suddenly that needs to change....wow jealous much. He does care (unless you think all charities are republican then i see your one view point), as he donated and under your rule he leaves you with nothing....so be mad at yourself...its what you wanted.

Dennis - You didn't answer my question. Were you as offended when the Democrats used the filibuster as you appear to be now? It really doesn't matter how many times a rule is used or not used, it's what the filibuster is used for. Remember when the Republicans were in the majority they were reminded by the Democrats that any changes in the filibuster could come back to bite them in the rear.

BTW, I really don't see any change in the Senate rules on the filibuster, it's just a lot of political posturing, further it would only divide the country more than it is now. One other point, we now have the most liberal President in history trying to impose his programs and ideas which many on the conservative side oppose, no one voted to make President Obama a sole arbitrator of what is or isn't good for America. There are 3 branches of Government, all are equal.

Jody the Moran from Iowa

"right-wing selfish attitude"

So it is selfish to want to keep the money your work for, but not selfish to have others go to work for 8 hours and 4 of those hours they are required to work for free?

Grover - you don't believe 47% of the country doesn't pay federal income taxes?

Why do you think polls say that 60% of people want others to pay more in Federal Income tax? It couldn't possibly be that 47% don't pay any and another 15% or so pay very little?

What happens when 60% don't pay any and another 15% pay very little? Guess what they are going to say the other 25% should pay more. (Might you fall into the 25%)

Regardless of why those 47% (really even higher) don't pay any, you can not survive having more than half of the working population not contributing.

Tomas, thanks it's always a joy to talk with you!

sfcret Siobhan27 - You say that a majority of liberals are o.k. with paying more in taxes. If that is so why are they fighting so hard to have the rates go up on the so called 2% and not everyone? I have not seen or heard many liberals advocating for ALL TAX RATES to return to where they were prior to the Bush tax cuts.

It's the problem of competing concerns. Not only do we need to address the budget problem by raising revenue and cutting spending, but we need to continue the recovery of the economy. As stated by many, this recovery depends on ensuring disposable income is in the hands of those most likely to spend it. Consumer demand is the engine to economic growth. And, as far as those most likely to spend it, the middle class outperforms the rich astronomically. Rich people will not hesitate to invest in opportunities to increase their wealth, even if their profits are a little less because of higher taxation.

Sigh. How many times am I going to have to re-post #1.114:

For all the lefty liberal morons questioning my plan, I'm re-posting my response in #1.69 below. See if it will sink into your thick skulls this time.

LMFAO@U!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mo said: So let me get this straight Joe in Albany. You give $30,000 away to save $15,000 in taxes.

_________________________________________

Mo-ron: No, I give $30,000 away to charities to support the good work they do.

The tax savings is just icing on the cake of supporting charities I like.

Legally stiffing Barry and the loony left on the taxes is just for pure pleasure.

Life is good.

Enjoy.

Sarge,

Before 2007 I was very bust running a business and working 12+ hours a day and didn't really pay much attention to politics … that is why I didn't answer. If I said yes or no it would be hindsight thus irrelevant.

The point is that the Filibuster is now being used to obstruct rather than slow things down.

Just how will it divide the country when more legislation gets passed?

@Akeem - no worries. I've had the moniker sliced and diced many ways : )

Dennis - Doesn't the minority view have a place in politics? I mean not everyone agrees on all legislation and just because more legislation gets passed doesn't mean we will be better off. The fact that one party wants to change the rules because they can is not what we elected Senators for. I believe the Democrats could have made their idea of changing the rules known prior to the election.

What is obstruction to you and the left is good politics for those on the right that did not like the proposals put forward by the Obama Administration and the filibuster was our only tool, now if the proposals were really beneficial to the country I am sure that, with proper leadership, the President and Harry Reid could have gotten a few Republican votes.

Remember President Clinton, and President Reagan both had Congresses controlled by the opposite party for most of their 8 yr terms and they were able to get their programs through by compromising, leadership and showing respect to the opposite party.

What is interesting in these newsvine type runs, is the rooting and hollering going on by people on both sides of the issue. Too bad no one has actually promoted a way to get ALL the politicians, their politically appointed czars and department heads, associated administrators, etc., on the unemployment roles, where they belong.

Every single one of them, bar none, have one thing in mind: enjoying their fancy world trips and life styles, at our expense. A few, very few, might be interested in, temporarily, doing something productive, for the "middle class," but they don't consider this their primary purpose in being where they are. They are all masters of obfuscation, in other words, getting people so wound up, they can't tell the forest from the trees. That way, they stay in their cushy abodes, occasionally getting back to their home district for campaign runs, and every time they get a media representative to listen to them, out comes the "campaign mode."

Sarge,

More legislation was probably not a good way to say it.

Anyhow the filibuster is being used to stop legislation/bills being allowed to proceed to the floor for discussion/debate. Don’t most bills deserve a discussion by all Senators?

On the other side it should be easier for the minority Party to bring bills forward for consideration rather than just being “shelved”.

Reform is needed!!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!

Of course the Liberal/Progressive bobble head buffoons NBC's Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Brooke Brower will support this embarrassment of a president.

This "proposal" is nothing more than political grandstanding. The funniest thing is that Barrack Hussein was too much of a coward to present the "proposal" so he sent his pathetic lap-dog, Timmy "Turbo-Tax" Geithner.

Anyone with half a functioning brain laughed at the Barrack Hussein "proposal". Who in their right mind believes that any of the alleged $1.6 trillion will go to paying down the deficit or the debt? Who thinks a $50 billion dollar $stimulu$ will do anything when the $863 billion $timulu$ didn't do anything? The spending cuts are based on already increased spending projections.

Typical Liberal/Progressive drivel of Tax & Spend.

And of course the absolute denial of fixing the entitlements and thousands of social programs is just more evidence that the Liberals/Progressives admit their social and economic justice is a disgraceful failure. What better way to admit failure than to just keep ignoring the problems and hope they will magically fix themselves. Liberals/Progressives know how much damage their dysfunctional and unsustainable New Deal nad Great Society programs are. To admit it would just be overwhelming as Liberals try to lie their way out of this disaster they created.

Disasterous trade agreements, a criminal progressive tax system that we can't get to work after a 100 years trying, irrational regulations, corrupt unions taht drive industry offshore and an education system that we should all be ashamed of the Liberals all trumpet its failure. This is typical for a failing ideology. Social and economic justice for the collective has never and will never work in a society our size, it never has.

Of course the Liberal/Progressive will just demonize the rich bogeymen and reassure the rest of America the best they can be is middle-class. Instead of promoting success Barrack Hussein promises mediocrity. This is not uncommon from someone who has never achieved anything of importance prior to being elected. Other than a few picnics in Chicago and writing a couple books about himself there is nothing that should compel anyone to follow this inexperienced incompetent.

It's time to accept the fiscal cliff. Let the Liberals/Progressives have this mess they created over the past 4 years. They inherited their own mess, now fix it.

Jin Spence,

What is interesting is that 2 of the 4 you named are Republicans.

Joe in Albany is displaying the current GOP mindset; 'I've got mine, screw you'. While greed is a big part of this, a much bigger and seldom mentioned part is ego; 'I'm smarter than you, because I've got more than you do. If you were smart like me, you could be rich too.' They're totally unable to fathom that not everyone wants to chase that particular goal and dismiss everyone else as 'stupid' (i.e. not rich). Now, this is almost never mentioned by them (the most recent notable exception was Mitt's '47%' remarks, but that wasn't intended for general consumption) but that's the underlying basis of their ideas.

Being actually smart doesn't mean you'll have a large ego, but having a large ego does usually result in having an inflated sense of self-worth and an over-estimation of your own intelligence.

So, being ego-driven like they are, they're positive only they have the answers. And because of their egos, they hate having to allow other opinions. They're so smart (in their minds) that all other ideas that originate from the 'stupid' (not rich) aren't deserving of consideration. Being rich is their only yardstick for measuring success.

The GOP has built their 'base' (excluding the hard-core religious zealots) by feeding the egos of their voters; yes, of course you can raise yourself up, it's those 'others' that are dragging you down. Never mind that their ignorance will prevent that from happening, play to their egos. Joe is a typical example of a out-of-control ego, with just enough smarts to carve out his little niche in the 'rich' yardstick.

"In battle this is the moment every general waits for." - skip nicholson

You obviously have never read Sun Tzu's "Art of War".

Crazy Steve, I think your talk of "greed" by the 2% is utterly ridiculous and disingenuous when you're comfortably sitting in front of your computer planning to forcibly take things from people because they have more luxuries than you. THAT is greedy.

Mike, I only mentioned greed in passing. It's obvious you're one the 'base' that has had your ego stroked until your reasoning powers have atrophied. As long as people like you exist, things won't get better for you.

Dennis, I agree there needs to be changes but not where the changes will be used to bypass the intent or voice of the minority in the Senate. I could see a change when it comes to Presidential appointments, since I believe the President, regardless of party, should be able to pick his appointees and all should be given a full hearing in the proper committees and on the Senate floor. I don't see any reason for changes in considering legislation. I definitely don't agree with unnamed individual Senators placing holds on appointments.

As is usual lately, everything has already been said by the FR crowd (times twelve!). It's great reading, and saves me the trouble. One suggestion: we should strive to eliminate personal attacks in our comments. Let's try to demonstrate superiority of intellect and reason by relegating that level of 'debate' to their side. Being human, I realize it isn't always possible to refrain - but I'm sure you (intelligent writers) understand my intent.

I'm confused. Boehner says that raising taxes on the wealthy will hurt the economy, but then he says he is willing to raise revenue on the rich. Well if you raise the revenue on the rich so they have to pay just as much as raising the taxes then why wont raising the revenue hurt the economy as well? So why would it matter which you get the extra revenue from? Why not just get it from the tax increase on the rich? Boehner, your not making sense. The only thing that would make sense of it is that your actually raising revenue on the middle class and giving to the rich.

Crazy Steve, when talking about people who think they have all the answers, maybe you should be looking in the mirror.

BTW...you can say "I only mentioned it in passing" except you followed the word "greed" with "is a big part of it". Is it a big part of it or some minor thing you just mentioned in passing...which one? Also if I'm anyone's base, it's not the Republican's.

Brenda..You do follow politics right?? EVERY party does this...Fight fight fight something and then give in to get something else....

I mean how many times have you heard "I voted for it before I voted against it"?