this is what I hate about politics... more worried about how the public thinks of them than doing the right thing.

Yes, but if the Republicans worry about what the public thinks of them maybe they will do the right thing. . . .

Jack - so true. They don't seem to be willing to do the right thing without pressure.

Let's hope so Jack!

Take off those Norquist blinders and get done what needs to get done!

Jack - I'd like to think you are correct on this, but they do have a group of dum-basses that love to double down. Jan Brewer, the resident dried-up hag of the GOPTP, is doubling down on stupid and going after immigrants. What makes it a laughing matter is she is being sued. That must have her big-girl panties Depends tied up in a knot.

sfcret - just because you wouldn't know leadership doesn't mean our President doesn't have any. It merely means you have no clue.

Clearly you forget Bush and Cheney claiming they could do anything they wanted - with no oversight. Oh, but that was your dear murderer that you voted for - twice. Now that we have an actual leader in the White House you don't know how to react.

Get used to it. He is President until 2013 and then Hillary will become our President. Get used to the idiots having to take 2nd place in leadership - because the Republicans show no leadership - just total abject stupidity - as you've proved by you post!

The only idiots who refer to our President as King, Emperor or Dictator are the stupid - liike you - on the far right. Grow up! You lost and you look more ignorant with each post you make!

Maybe Obama will start acting like a President instead of a King, Emperor or dictator.

Really, sfcret? That's the way you interpret the Republicans' obstructionism over the past 4 years? All you RWNJs like to scorn the President for having been a community organizer. But it was those roots that led to some of his failures. In small communities you can bring people together and form a consensus. He thought he could bring that goodwill to Congress and work on problems with the Republicans. They ran roughshod over him, and now he knows better than to try. If you want to talk about "takers", it's the Republicans.

In the military they would say, "If we wanted you to think, Sergeant, the government would have issued you a brain." It looks like you took those words to heart over your military career.

@sfcret

How many of you think that Obama should be able to raise the National Debt ceiling

That would be a huge mistake! Like giving your teenager an unlimited credit card! I'm not saying that about Obama would abuse it, but about giving ANY president that POWER would be granting them way too much temptation...

However - if there was a budget that had to be balanced, we wouldn't need a debt ceiling now, would we?

Say a funny one today:

Why does Obamacare cost twice as much as promosed?

A: Because Obama is an overachiever.

The Debt Ceiling increase is only needed to pay for what has already been spent.

It is a political game to even have a debt ceiling. The House (where spending bills must originate) controls the spending so if they don't want a higher debt then stop passing appropriation bills that calls for more spending than projected revenues.

They currently pass spending that is greater than our revenues then want to deny an increase to the debt ceiling … what a joke.

@Seeking

He is President until 2013 and then Hillary will become our President

Do you know something that we don't? 2013?

@ Dennis - the debt ceiling is no joke... the question isn't if there should be one or not, there should...I just don't think that the President should have control or anyone single person

How many of you think that Obama should be able to raise the National Debt ceiling without approval of Congress?

sfcret - nice twist <snark> on what he has proposed. The debt ceiling proposal stops idiotic members of Congress from using the debt ceiling as a political tool to ruin the credit rating of the country by refusing to let the bills be paid. Oh, let me guess - you are of the type that will go out and buy a car, then run and hide when it comes time to pay the bill. The GOP has twice, in the last two decades, used this tactic to bring the country to its knees. It is simply a terrorist act of holding the country hostage for political gain.

And what would that be genius?

Michele,

Please tell … just what does a debt ceiling accomplish??

The public should be blaming themselves for voting for these people.

@ Dennis

st what does a debt ceiling accomplish??

Apparantly it was set up to control spending, however it doesn't seem to work on that. It does require legislation to pass before raising it, which forces credibility.

I kind of like it to a bank that tells you a price range for the loan they pre-approve you for.

RedDevil, Your right The Tea Party is basically a Domestic Terrorist Organization..... President Obama get some balls - Sequester Congress until they resolve the Budget..... Do not allow the House or Senate to go home..... Their families will really understand them not being around for the holidays.....

Svenolafson - no the idiot in the White House left in 2008. We now, luckily, have President Obama. Please try to keep up!

The sad truth is that Obama could have avoided the whole debt ceiling debate by following the example of his predicessor and paying for everything through special spending measures and keeping it all off the books. Sure, eventually the bill comes due and the national debt balloons overnight, but hey Obama would be out of office by then.

Obama's problem early on was that he tried to be bi-partisan with people whose only goal was to make him a one term president. He needed to grow a pair earlier. It wasn't until the second half of his first term that he started acting like he had a backbone at all. I'm glad that he's using the bully pulpit now. It shows Congress that he isn't a president to be pushed around anymore. As it encourages them to actually do their job, so not everything that gets done in Washington has be done through executive orders or recess appointments.

Wow, the PEW "Public Opinion Survey" indicates the Republicans will be blamed for going over the "Fiscal Cliff".

• Where is the "Survey" on why Mr. Obama REJECTED the Erskine~Bowles [sp] proposal ?
• Where is the "Survey" on how many Progressives want America to go over the "Fiscal Cliff" ?
• Where is the "Survey" on how many Americans want Mr. Obama to stay at "home" to work on major issues instead of going on campaign trips asking for PUBLIC OPINION on MAJOR issues ?
• Where is the "Survey" on how many Americans AGREE with Mr. Obama's proposal provided by Mr. Gunitaxther ?
• Where is the "Survey" on how many Americans want Mr. Obama to terminate the National Debt Ceiling ?

The Progressives could care less about working across the aisle and could care less about America going over the "Fiscal Cliff". After everything is said and done and no matter what happens, it will be the Republicans fault since the Public Opinion Survey says so.

Nah, gotta blame the Republicans and get everything in order for "over the hill" Mrs. Clinton to make a "run" in 2016.

Michele,

Since the debt ceiling only needs increased when Congress has spent more money than we have taken in the only outcome of not increasing it would be to not pay our bills thus default which will cause our credit rating to go down and in turn the interest on our debt will increase.

Remember … it is not increased because of planned spending

Nothing bad will happen if we get rid of it. No other nations have a debt ceiling.

I think it's pretty well-known that Republicans' ONLY concern is the top 2% wealthiest, and clearly Republicans have absolutely no concern over the other 98% of the American People.

Republicans have failed in everything they had planned from trying to force failure on the President and ostesibly the American People, to repealing Affordable Health Care.

I wonder how long it's going to take before Republicans realize they're out numbered, and in the USA majority rules.

ldo

Why don't you post all of those 'surveys' so the rest of us can see them. Please do not use Faux news as a source either. We all are very much aware of the lies from the department of ministry.

Also, that's President Obama not Mr. Obama. When did America stop having respect for the President.

P.S Isn't it amazing how the GOP now wants to discuss some of the same changes that Obama recommended earlier in the year? The GOP had only one goal of making Obama a 1 term president and now they want to wait it out till he is a lame duck president.

Ido - your posts get stupider with every passing day. And, now you do them in larger type face to make sure EVERYONE knows what an idiot you are! Amazing but not surprising. Typical Republican!

The left wing talking points again but nothing of substance as to the topic. Seeking just wants to call people names. Seeking, I have forgot more about leadership than you or Obama will ever know. Also why do you keep referring back to Bush/Cheney, they are not in charge.

Dennis, Nice try at spinning. I agree it is the responsibility of the House to originate appropriations bills, which they have done (many not all but most) only to have the Senate not concur or even voting on few of them. Then remember the President also has to sign the bills into law. So don't just blame the House, as there is a lot of blame to go around. What's a joke is when Obama, as a Senator, states that the raising of our debt ceiling shows a lack of leadership and burdens our children and that is why he (Obama) voted against raising the debt ceiling. Now he wants full control to raise it when ever he wants. Like you said Dennis, it is a political game being played by both sides. One more note Dennis, IF the Republican House passed spending bills that only spent what actual revenue was, do you think the Democrat controlled SENATE & THE PRESIDENT, would sign off on them?

RedDev - As usual your post doesn't even make sense. BTW, the debt ceiling is not strictly about the money that HAS been spent but also includes money the is being spent, which could be reduced or stopped prior to actual spending.

TO: ProBusiness who wrote:

"... the majority of the public reelect a president just because of his skin color even though he has failed in everything he has done the LAST four years..."

No, President Obama DIDN'T fail, Republicans failed.

Republicans should have known better than to try to retaliate against a democratically elected president, and their efforts to stall our economic recovery, and their rhetoric about 47%ers and all the rest turned out to be an absolute DISASTER for Republicans.

Republicans in effect tried to single-handedly overturn the election of President Obama by refusing to cooperate and work with him, which Repulicans bet the farm that people would not re-elect President Obama for no other reason than the color of his skin.

Instead of forcing failure on President Obama, Republicans forced failure on themselves.

Now THERE is a surprise (sarcasm). But when you have the majority of the public reelect a president just because of his skin color even though he has failed in everything he has done the LAST four years but promises to do the same the NEXT four years but will get a different result then you can't trust the intelligence of the people anyway.

The election is over. You already tried these talking points, and they failed. The majority of the voting public realized that Obama has saved us from what the Republicans have been trying to do to the country, and this poll shows their continued understanding of what's going on.

ProBusiness

Now THERE is a surprise (sarcasm). But when you have the majority of the public reelect a president just because of his skin color even though he has failed in everything he has done the LAST four years but promises to do the same the NEXT four years but will get a different result then you can't trust the intelligence of the people anyway.

Ah, but then you have those bulwarks of higher education in Southern States who voted for Romney ... do I need to continue typing sarca...?

sfcret - you show with every post you have no concept of leadership. You'll just post anything that puts our President down.

Yes, I bring up Bush and Cheney because you held them to a totally different set of rules and standards than you do our President. When President Obama took office suddenly you wanted things to go by YOUR rules - even though Bush followed no rules and Cheney even said the President could do anything he wants - he answers to no one.

Funny how short your memory is. And, no, you have NO leadership skills as is evidenced by every post you make.

Republicans in Congress have sold the country out to be loyal to Grover Norquist - who is NOBODY - elected by NO ONE>

You have no place telling RedDev he makes no sense when everything you post is total idiotcy!

So if the "Fiscal Cliff" is successfully avoided, then the President gets the credit. But if it is not avoided, then it is the fault of the GOP. That makes a lot of sense. It reminds me of coaching: if a team is successful, the players get the credit. If it is unsuccessful, then it's the fault of the coach.

ldo,

In 2005 after being reelected President Bush went on a 50 city tour to sell his Social Security plan.

Why didn’t he stay in DC and work with Congress to get it passed?

Americans back President Obama; Job Approval yesterday = 54/40 (+14).

How many of you think that Obama should be able to raise the National Debt ceiling

That would be a huge mistake! Like giving your teenager an unlimited credit card! I'm not saying that about Obama would abuse it, but about giving ANY president that POWER would be granting them way too much temptation...

Obama doesn't control spending. Congress does. Obama just spends what Congress passes into law. The teenager with the credit card is Congress. Obama is the parent paying the bill.

Your idea of a "huge mistake" would turn the parent, Obama, into a deadbeat by refusing to allow him to actually pay the bill that is already due.

sfcret - you show with every post you have no concept of leadership. You'll just post anything that puts our President down.

These are just their pre-election talking points. Since their party is in such a disarray they haven't yet received the memo and don't know what the new ones are, so they keep using the old ones.

I have forgot more about leadership than you or Obama will ever know

Oh, I don't know. To me, you sound like the typical lifer who put in his time bossing other people around because you had the stripes--but not much else going on.

Now he wants full control to raise it when ever he wants.

That statement alone is proof (in more ways than one) that you don't understand what's going on.

But, relax. You're not the dumbest guy on this board. Here's ProBusiness' brilliant comment:

when you have the majority of the public reelect a president just because of his skin color

Now there is stupidity incarnate.

I wonder if anyone has ever actually analyzed what each party is proposing. If you've actually figured out what they are proposing you'd realize that neither party is serious about addressing the deficit. Obama's proposal, if you take them at their word, is to increase taxes on the rich by $1.8 trillion over 10 years with no reductions in spending. The repubs proposal is to increase taxes by $800 billion over 10 years with about $700 billion in cuts over the same period. The bottom line is that we are currently spending about $1.3 trillion more each year than we are bringing in. So, Obama and the repubs proposal to cut that deficit to $1.1 trillion per year is a solution?

The whole bunch of them really think we are dumb suckers. And, from the comments on these boards and the media, they are right. The two parties are arguing over whether 100 or 110 smokers should be allowed in the building as being the "safe" number, meanwhile the building is on fire and half in ashes.

SeekingSanity: There is no such word as, "stupider"........keep seeking.

Lil Michelle

You see, this is what I hate about politics... more worried about how the public thinks of them than doing the right thing.

Not always, but sometimes, doing the right thing is the same as doing what the public wants.

We hire our representatives based on the assumption that they have the judgment necessary to make that decision.

Oh, 'ProBusiness' - I didn't vote for President Obama based on his skin color. I'm so sorry you have such a negative view of this nation.....just because your candidate didn't 'win'.

If (sigh) once again you need a reminder on this President's accomplishments, well, here you go (a-g-a-i-n):

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_2012/features/obamas_top_50_accomplishments035755.php

The Republicans are doing everything they can to ensure they don't win the next presidential election either.

Why would they want to win when protecting the 1% and, also, blaming everyone else is much easier than accountability.

The main problem here is Obama's refusal to stop his maniacal spending. He has had some success in convincing the gullible that if he can increase the tax rate on that 2%, rainbows will appear and unicorns will prance though the streets.

He's also had success in suppressing the fact that this increased tax on the wealthy will only bring in a miniscule amount of revenue and may end up doing more harm than good to the economy, but this is why his supporters are referred to as "the gullible".

This country is on a fast track to oblivion and Obama is doing everything necessary to insure we get there.

TO: FDJLakers1 who wrote:

"So if the "Fiscal Cliff" is successfully avoided, then the President gets the credit. But if it is not avoided, then it is the fault of the GOP. That makes a lot of sense. It reminds me of coaching: if a team is successful, the players get the credit. If it is unsuccessful, then it's the fault of the coach."

Well, it's the Republicans who came out before the entire world and announced that they planned to do everything in their power to force failure on President Obama, and that they had one single mission in life and that was to make President Obama a one-term President and Republicans failed in every way.

The ONLY thing Republicans succeeded in was stalling our Economic Recovery.

It's Republicans' fault because they intentionally tried to harm the President of the United States and in doing so Republicans did harm the American People by stalling our Economic Recovery.

Jack, Maybe Obama will start acting like a President instead of a King, Emperor or dictator. Obama has a complete lack of leadership and thinks he should get everything he wants. Hopefully the Republicans will do the right thing and either force the President into compromising or go over the so called "fiscal cliff", which Obama wants anyway.

Uh, no... The reason this impasse has come is because Republicans thought they should get everything they want. Lack of leadership was clearly shown by Boehner when he couldn't get any kind of compromise from his side last year when they almost had a $4T deal. This whole sequestration thing was put in place because Republicans though they could kick the can down the road and that they would be in charge again when this crap finally hit the fan.

So, really, Republicans set this up. Obama has to do exactly NOTHING and will not suffer for it. Tax cuts will expire, sequestration cuts will happen, our debt 10 years down the road will be about $2.5T less and, as polls show, Republicans will take the blame for more obstructionism. And Republicans set this up!

Whose move is it?

I suspect that both sides want the "Fiscal Cliff" to materialize. The Democratic side would get their massive military cuts across the board, as well as increased revenue from the revocation of the Bush tax cuts. The Republican side would give the Obama 2nd Term a pathetic beginning with a failure to come to an agreement. Both sides would win.....somewhat. The only losers would be the majority of taxpayers. But We the People would figure out how to cope with higher taxes, as we have in the past. The only drawback would be a decrease in national security with the cuts in Military spending......then we can have multiple Benghazis (sp?).

FDJLakers1 -

stu·pid

/ˈstu pɪd, ˈstyu‐/ Show Spelled [stoo-pid, styoo‐] Show IPA adjective, stu·pid·er, stu·pid·est, noun.

adjective
1.
lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull.

2.
characterized by or proceeding from mental dullness; foolish; senseless: a stupid question.

3.
tediously dull, especially due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless: a stupid party.

4.
annoying or irritating; troublesome: Turn off that stupid radio.

As I often say and you've proved - there is absolutely no sanity to be found in the GOP! You could have actually looked the work up before your post so you wouldn't have looked so - stupid!!!

Byron - (Post 1.34) You say the President doesn't control spending and that is not true. Congress does not pass LAWS, Congress writes bills and the PRESIDENT signs them into law. If the President doesn't like the bill he can veto it. Remember the President submits a Budget Request and then both houses of control, can or can not, use it as a spending guide. However, it is the Congress that approves the FY Budget, and since it is not a bill, the President does not sign it. The President can, and often does, veto the appropriations bills which actually sets the spending for the different federal agencies and Departments. So yes, the Congress and the President have equal responsibility in spending.

"What's more -- in a trend surely being eyed by the Obama administration -- the public still appears ready to place blame for the impasse on congressional Republicans over the White House by a nearly 2-1 margin."

Whats really really scary is, that the GOP does not GET IT!!!

Kinda like taking a thirsty Donkey (Ass) to the Pond and trying to make him to drink, but he still doesnt get it!

For years, there has been speculaltions that Republicans are a bunch of idiots...it really is true isnt it?

I'll be damned!

What will really be interesting if the scenario plays out that the fiscal cliff is breached and the country actually improves after a brief stabilization, will you give the Republicans credit???? HAHAHAHAHA.

AmericanGirl: Whenever either or both sides work to satisfy polls, and are concerned more about political fallout rather than doing that which is right, we will have a stagnant government. Both Reagan and Clinton were able to work with opposing parties within the House & Senate. And both Bush and Obama have been unable to do the same. You, AmericanGirl, concentrate on Republican pitfalls, while others on this thread concentrate on Democratic pitfalls. All of you do on this thread precisely what the Administration and Congress do in Government: uphold your own agenda and denigrate whomever opposes you. For you, AmericanGirl, it is the way of your beloved President or the highway. For others on this thread, it is the way of the Patriotic Republicans or the highway. While you continue in each of your brands of hatred and self-righteousness, you are the perfect example of what is wrong with this country and what is wrong with our governement that acts in the exact same way as you: with arroagant intransigence, and with an absolute refusal to compromise with the other side.

I don't mean to be derogatory towards you or anyone else here, for I know you all have your own sincere agendas. But to read all of your posts....on both sides....is to listen to our government in action....or rather, inaction. Our government is intransigent, both the Administration and the Congress, because the people of this country are intransigent. Our government is a mirror image of you, the People.

Whatever happened to JFK's, "Ask not what your country can do for you; Ask what you can do for your country"? I think John and Bobby Kennedy would be very disappointed with all of us today.

FDJ: "So if the "Fiscal Cliff" is successfully avoided, then the President gets the credit. But if it is not avoided, then it is the fault of the G.O.P." Exactly!!! You nailed it..................

SeekingSanity: I stand corrected. The use of the word, "stupider", is generally considered poor grammer so I automatically thought it was not a word. But I was wrong, and stand corrected. I apologize.

Obama's plan is to ADD trillions of dollars to our deficit in the next ten years, the GOP's plan isn't much better. These are not good plans, either one of them. Is there no way we can get out of the hole we are in? I keep waiting for the politicians to make the hard choices and cut the nice to have but not needed programs to reduce our spending. Why can't we pull together as a country like they did back in WW1 and WW2 when everyone sacrificed for the good of the country, not just the top 2%. And everyone back then had way less then we have now.

Please no name calling if you disagree, there is way too much hatred on all these posts. I really want to know why you think Obama's plan is great and will help this country, just the facts.

Peace: Concerning your statement, "Exactly!!! You nailed it....." That is such blatant admission of prejudice, illogic, and hatred, that I don't think it even deserves any more of a response than I've already given here.

If republicans had the opportunity to make the 2001 tax cuts permanent in exchange for a 2% higher top rate, they would have jumped at the chance. Although, I doubt that the democrats would have voted for it under the same circumstances.

Give up the 2% increase and move on. We all know that the money generated won't amount to anything. Just do it. There is no higher ground to stand on trying to defend such a miniscule increase. The higher ground is reducing federal spending.

"Focused On American Jobs"??????

You have to be pooping me. They didn't pass a single jobs bill.

Boner, Cantor and the rest of those clowns have to go.

SeekingSanity: I took your suggestion and looked up "stupider" in the online Merriam-Webster Dictionary, and could not find the word. "Stupid" is listed, but not "Stupider". So maybe I was right in the first place, the word does not exist. What is the source of your definition? My source is as follows:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stupid

This is painfully obvious and predictable- There's a media blitz by the administration and the media in the attempts that they can control the dialog. It reminds me a lot of that first gathering of leadership after President Obama won his first term (to discuss the financial crisis). McCain offered an idea, the President cut him off and said, "It's over, I won." This is the same moment.

That being said I DO think the Republicans have made some bad decisions and should have phrased their argument differently when it comes to the fiscal cliff. The crux of the argument is that taxes are going up and entitlements are going down- it's all how you get there that anyone cares about. The Republicans (to the best of my knowledge) are primarily concerned with business growth and the implications of a tax hike on the $250,000+ crowd when most small businesses combine their expenses with the owner's personal income taxes. Rather than tout no new taxes, they should have picked their battle- "Taxes are going up, however we need to exempt small businesses where the filing indicates the business owner has an income of over $250,000 beyond the business' expenses." It's that easy, but they haven't chosen to phrase it like that. BIG mistake as it clearly taints the media coverage as they are only for the rich and business.

I'm also not surprised that, as the article states, more people will blame the GOP because when you look at the US far more people are slipping (due to higher taxes, fuel, food, etc. costs) into a subsistance living model. When 50% of the country gets some sort of federal aid and 47% don't pay federal taxes, they'll loudly endorse someone else getting higher taxes and them keeping their entitlements. That's a no brainer. So when the reality of the situation is that you've got to raise taxes and cut programs you are going to piss everybody off, you are just picking which crowd to have defending you.

If they conducted a poll that had a balanced sector of the public they would have a different outcome. This is weighted to dems and liberals.

Polls...

Polls have Congress's approval rating at like 15% yet most were re-elected.

Balance is what it needed. We need to bring in more money AND spend less to fix this problem. Neither on its own is the solution.

That is such blatant admission of prejudice, illogic, and hatred, that I don't think it even deserves any more of a response than I've already given here.

Prejudice... perhaps (see hatred further on). Illogic... absolutely not, he agreed with your stated facts - if there is any illogic, you did that! Hatred... maybe, but the Republican party has nothing to earn anyone's respect or love in this whole mess!

Fact of the matter is, Republicans brought this on themselves. From their hate-fueled stated goal to make Obama a one-term president to the disgusting round of hate talk and false accusations to the current fiasco we now find ourselves embroiled in that the Republicans themselves played a huge role in creating.... even you can't possibly find any reason to admire the Republican party leadership in the last 12 years, can you?

And if you honestly can, you brand yourself my friend!

Repubs are really introuble on this one...Norquist and his special super pac intrests may need to get their walets out and get ready to pay their fair shair..freaking 1%ers holding the rest of us hostage to their own selfishness..they make all that money off the people then expect not to be required to pay..

WHAT THE HELLL!!!!

Wake up America..pay attention..and get to WORK !!!

justicenonexistent

[This is weighted to dems and liberals.]

This is the very same reasoning that led Romney and many other Conservatives to think the election was in the bag for Romney.

The +7 Liberal over sampling turned out to be correct

Prediction - The Tea Party extremists continue to hold the rest of the Republicans at bay through ideologic posturing, a deal fails to get done and the "fiscal cliff" is reached and the country falls off. The American public, not being entirely stupid, places blame on the Republicans and expresses this unhappiness in 2014 when Republicans suffer near terminal losses in mid-term elections. The Republicans fail to take back the party from extremists and become increasingly marginalized, becoming a minority party with only local influence. - One big reason for this is continuing Republican hypocrisy on spending issues. They have been successful in narrowing the definition of "entitlements" to mean Social entitlements, completely ignoring Business entitlements. Last year social programs outside of Social Security and Medicare (which are supported through FICA taxes), received 69 Billion in taxpayer provided funds. At the same time businesses received 97 Billion in subsidies and grant money. Energy companies are estimated to have gotten 52 billion dollars with around 24 billion of that going to oil companies. Local and state governments kick in even more, with some estimates as high as businesses receiving $4 to every $1 for social programs. There should be no cuts in social entitlements without at least equal (if not greater) cuts to business entitlements!!!! - GOOD LUCK WITH THAT !!!!

FDJLakers1 - sorry took so long - I was out of the office at a meeting.

Just google - stupider and you'll find several references. It is no longer considered poor grammar as it has become mainstream in the US and other countries today.

I did vote up your 1.50 post - very well said!

[Oh, I don't know. To me, you sound like the typical lifer who put in his time bossing other people around because you had the stripes--but not much else going on.]

Jack, don't be too hard on "sarge"...he's still trying to figure out the whole "super-majority" thingie...

TO: Ben-636050 who wrote:

"What will really be interesting if the scenario plays out that the fiscal cliff is breached and the country actually improves after a brief stabilization, will you give the Republicans credit?..."

Ask the 2% that the GOP works for because the GOP ain't on to nothing from the 98% of Americans' point of view.

"Focused on American Jobs", really? That's not only a bunch of hogwash, but Republicans already used that "line" to get the Teagaggers in office last mid-term and haven't done a darn thing to create any job except for their own.

It would be different if Republicans had actually done anything to create jobs, but they haven't.

Just the opposite. Republicans have stalled our Economic Recovery because they thought it would be politically beneficial to them PERSONALLY.

SeekingSanity: Well, whether it is a word or not, our current government is "stupider" than it should be, and so many of us fall into the trap of being just as stupid while we just continue to bash each other. I, for example, picked on the use of a word rather than concentrate on your message. Meanwhile, while we all continue to argue and pick each other apart, our government follows suit and nothing gets done.

A new "list" apparently came out today showing the best places in the world to live. In 1998, the U.S.A. was Number 1. Today, it is Number 16! Let's stop blaming each other, re-learn the art of compromise, and climb out of this mess.

A few years ago my wife and I went to Hawaii. She wanted to go on the bike ride down the volcano on Maui, while I had no interest in that. I wanted to go on the parachute ride to be lifted 1,000 feet into the air while being pulled by a motor boat. My wife hated the idea. We compromised and went on both. Afterwards, we had great pictures of the bike ride as well as a great time together. Guess what my wife mostly talked about when we got back to the mainland......the parachute ride that she found to be exciting and fun!

The moral of the story: there are good ideas in both parties. Stubborn and arrogant intransigence will never uncover them, but cooperation and compromise will open up the possibility of extracting the best from both worlds. What are we waiting for? To be Number 25 on the list of most favorable places to live or to re-claim the opportunities that are open to all of us? Forget the 1% or the 47%. Forget the color of skin that we have been concentrating on lately. Focus on only that which is good, which is right, and which is positive and be open to viewing the world thru the eyes of those who have different ideas and different values. Let us stop alienating each other with name-calling and put-downs, but rather start finding common ground to solve some serious problems. It can be done! Look at the record of those who were successful in getting polar elements to work together; people such as Lincoln, Roosevelt, General Eisenhower, Kennedy, Churchill, Reagan, and Clinton, and then emulate their methods of operation. None of these people operated out of hateful rhetoric, but instead focused on uplifting others and making the most of the capabilities of those around them.

Pay me $250,000 + /year and I'll GLADLY pay higher taxes! You wouldn't hear me whine and complain!

Who had the opportunity to vote for a new congressman in November? We all did, so why did so many of them get re-elcted? It is not Boehner or Obama's fault if we go over the fiscal cliff it is our fault. We knew this fiscal cliff was coming up, we knew that for the last two years the House, Senate and President could not agree on anything. So we voted back the status quo and now we bitch. Time to hang on and go over the fiscal cliff the voting people deserve it. Maybe in 2014 when the House is up for re-election there won't be a 95% incumbent retention.

Maxwell: The phrase, "fair share of taxes", should result in the fairest tax of all: A flat tax with virtually no deductions and no loopholes. This type of tax would make the poor pay a proportionate amount of taxes, as well as the rich. But this fairest tax of them all will never fly because over 40% of Americans do not pay taxes and would never vote in someone who ran on such a platform. I liked Cain's 9-9-9 plan. If I remember it correctly, it was 9% Income Tax, 9% Sales Tax, and 9% Business tax. Now that's fair!

I was born in Los Angeles and grew up in the Projects of Watts, a ghetto. Through education and hard work, I now pay a lot of taxes. And you too, Maxwell, can pay a lot of taxes through hard work and education. It is called opportunity to become just about anything you want to. Nothing is stopping you exept your own will to succeed. In fact, nothing is stopping any of us except our own work ethic, determination to succeed, and our focus on completing an education (either academic or trade-oriented).

Besides the fact that the Republican proposal was "short" on details. There were two points that if the Democrats publicize them will spell trouble for the Republicans among the voters.And shows their true selves.

1. They want to change the age to sign-up for Medicare from 65 to 67. All the polls show that voters totally reject that. The latest poll was against it by: 71% of Democrats,62% of Independents,and even 68% OF REPUBLICANS.

2. They want to cut Social Security cost of living increases. Social Security,isn't even part of the debate.And runs a surplus for at least another 20 years. So this is purely an attack against the retirement program,to stop from having to raise taxes on the rich. Many people (stupidly) vote Republican. They will be pissed over that plan,if AARP does its job and makes sure they know about it.

The thing I find most amazing in this dispute,is the objection to the Clinton tax-rates. I don't remember them as being so horrible. And during that time our economy was booming. We were paying for our needs,and even beginning to pay down the national debt. The CBO estimated we would have trillions in surplus in 2012,at that time. Then we let Bush screw us up. Give billions away to the rich,the insurance industry,his MIC friends.And start two life taking,money eating wars.

If the Republicans let thmeselves to continue to be bullied by the Tea Party wackos they are in for another ass whoopin' come 2014 ... Next time they lose the House !!!

Taxing the wealthy at rates that were in force during the Clinton years will wreck the economy ???? Bulls#*t !!!!

Actually the REAL fiscal cliff is if we don't pay down this OUTRAGEOUS debt our FINE government has accrued. Honestly, I'm starting to DESPISE democrats. They always want to just TAX people to death. The people who have worked long hours, worked weekends, RISKED a ton of their money, those are the people the dems think aren't paying enough. People once came to America to get AWAY from high taxes, now people are leaving here to GET AWAY from high taxes. You people disgust me. We don't have a REVENUE problem, we have a SPENDING problem. We need massive cuts across the board. The GOP is offering increased revenue by losing loop holes, but that's not good enough. Obama had the SImpson Bowles plan and after they presented it, he just IGNORED the whole thing. Republicans aren't much better though. That's why I voted for RON PAUL. People need to learn about the Libertarian wing of the Republican party. Libertarianism is our ONLY chance for prosperity.

Does anyone remember when this started? How it got started? Does anyone know why it hasn't been resolved yet? How about how long it might take after we fall over the cliff to realize there is no way out but up? I doubt we get out of what ever we fall in for the simple fact our government will do nothing but point fingers at each other! Good job people, this is the mess you have created. If you want a change vote to make it happen. Democrats didn't even run anyone against Boehner in November, why? I hear it's because it's a Republican District he is from but yet if we have no one running against him how will we replace him even if we wanted to? I'm sick of his whining! If his party doesn't want to raise taxes let them come up with the loopholes and deductions that can be eliminated to make up for lost revenue! One or the other will get done, would be nice to see them all disappear and taxes increase. Then maybe your children won't be paying for your lack of responsibility!

Fact: of the 10 most educated states, all 10 voted Obama.

Fact: of the 10 least educated states, 9 voted Romney.

Fact: Obama overwhelmingly won among postgraduates.

But we all know Republicans don't like facts much.

The moral of the story: there are good ideas in both parties.

Well, there's your first problem! Obviously, the loosing LEFT couldn't have an idea if it hit them in the ass! But the awesome RIGHT knows every good idea before it was a good idea! I mean, just look at the way we totally predicted the last election... errrr, uhhhh, never mind!

Point is, the Right has absolutely no interest in any ideas but their own. Previous failures, well, they obviously just never happened (George WHO? never existed!). When they learn some humility, obviously by being smacked at least 3 or 4 more times, maybe they will consider another opinion!

One wanders to the left, another to the right. Both are equally in error, but, are seduced by different delusions. ~Horace

Well you knew it had to be either a Pew / WP Poll or a NBC/WSJ Poll spewing forth with that kind of "Blame" nonsense! You sure don't see Gallop bucking Obama anymore....Obama's DOJ done strung them up and letting them swing!

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/09/06/is-doj-suit-against-gallup-retaliation-for-bad-obama-poll-numbers/

Let US get over the Fiscal Cliff already! If the Demo-Republo-Bureau-RATS can't agree on their latest round of Tax America & Spend For Wall Street let US jump off of their Fiscal Cliff and let the Mandatory Tax Increases and Budget Cuts kick in!

Do any of you actually believe that any of these Corrupt Wall Street Political Minions in Washington DC work for US or are looking out for OUR best interests?

Well maybe there are a few Intentionally Delusional Demo-Republo-Bureau-RAT Corporate Supporters left out there who still cling to their Hopey Changey Nonsense, but I cannot believe any Normal American could or would be Naive in 2012 to believe this Smoke & Mirrors Nonsense!

So let US hurry all of them "RATS" over the Cliff....The sooner the better!

Impeach Obama in 2012 and Imprison Clinton for Criminal Conspiracy to Cover Up the Murder of an American Ambassador, Intentionally Lying to the American People Secret CIA Prisons and Supporting Al Qaeda in Benghazi-Gate and now in Syria!

The hardest thing to understand in the world is the income tax. ~ Albert Einstein

Blame the GOP for going off the cliff? I blame the GOP for all the crap/trouble this country has gotten itself into, starting with Bush #41...

The GOP needs to wake up and realize that America is a mix of different cultures, beliefs, religions, and life styles...

My neighbor make look different than me, may even live a different lifestyle than I do, or believe in or not a God different from mine... What's most important is that He/She is no less an American than myself!

The way I see it is that obama did win heavily on the electoral votes, but he did not by the poplar vote, Just a little over three million more than romney. This tells ne that because of the economy a lot more Americans were depending on government hand outs just to eat and they were afraid romney would not help them if he was elected because of his stupid comment. As far as I am concerned the GOP needs to stick to its guns and not give in to obama, this man is trying to destroy America, and the more he gets the more he wants. Our freedoms are being taken away every second by this administration. I am a independent and I voted for romney because I could see the direction obama was taking our country. I did not particularly care for romney because while I knew he had the know how to turn us around I also know how the corporate mind works.

If they conducted a poll that had a balanced sector of the public they would have a different outcome. This is weighted to dems and liberals.

Yeah! Just like all those polls before the election that showed Obama with a 91% probability of beating Romney. All those polls were wrong, they clearly oversampled Democrats and Liberals...

Oh wait...

I'm glad the public is smart enough to properly place blame at the feet of the GOP should we go over the "fiscal cliff," just as they were smart enough to see through all the GOP bull@!$%# in early November...

The middle class is screwed either way...

It would be different if Republicans had actually done anything to create jobs, but they haven't.

Guess you like to ignore all the job bills sitting on reid's desk.

Neither party is interested in the middle class. The middle class is already being hit by ACA with higher health insurance premiums and skyrocketing medical costs.

It'll be nice when this obama love fest is over so we can get down to business.

Obama won the popular vote by a bigger margin than the last 4 elections. Total votes 2012 and 50.95 %, 2008 52.87%, 2004 G.W. Bush 50.73%, 2000 G.W. Bush 47.87%, 1996 Bill Clinton 49.23%, 1992 Bill Clinton 43.01%. Popular vote... 2012 Obama by 4,665,000, 2008 Obama by 9,549,000, 2004 G.W.B. by 3,012,000, 2000 G.W.B. by 540,000, 1996 by Clinton 8,201,000, 1992 Clinton by 5,800,000. Facts Jerry. Your argument doesn't hold water.

.

@Tommy -- I agree. If they had to rely on Social Security and Obamacare, you would see something get done.

I can't believe that they think hiring a black spokesperson is going to make a difference for them at this poin... Hey! Wait a minute... That's John Boehner!!

Coining a new phrase for the Republican approach to the debt crisis following their recent crippling losses on all fronts combined with their inexplicable will to fight... "Republikaze".

Trapped in tunnels and caves, supply lines severed, feudal belief systems at odds with the world and in tatters, yet still they nose over and howl into the shredding fire hoping for a direct hit on America... Killing themselves and all aboard.

Now, before we have the ceremonial Sake toast, are there any questions?

Chick, they already tried that with Michael Steele. He's a pariah now amongst Republicans and I would highly recommend that people listen to what he has to say about the current state of the Republican party now.

TO: Kent from Iowa who wrote:

"Chick, they already tried that with Michael Steele. He's a pariah now amongst Republicans and I would highly recommend that people listen to what he has to say about the current state of the Republican party now."

Good point. I like Michael Steele now that he's on Hardball with Chris Matthews and an MSNBC Contributor, but I didn't used to like him when he was head of the RNC.

As for being a pariah, ALL blacks are pariahs when it comes to the Republican Party, which is why there are so few, especially with this New Republican Party of Teagaggers.

The only thing missing are the white hoods and robes.

No President, regardless of political affiliation, should be given the power to raise the debt limit at will. The national debt belongs to the people of the United States, and the House of Representatives is representative of that population.

Chick binder said,

"Now, before we have the ceremonial Sake toast, are there any questions?"

Man, that brought back memories! I think I played that album until it melted.

Ok... riddle me this Batman.... If the failure of comming to an agreement is the Republicans fault. Will the Failure of the agreement to "fix" the economy AFTER the budget is done be the President's?

Tommy-499410

The Tea Baggers are destroying the Republican Party! It should be a law that any law that passes should effect Congress!! I bet we would get some work done!!

What does that have to do with Conservative Republicans (aka, Tea Party)? The crap that congress doesn't have to endure are the things the liberals have passed, e.g., Social Security and the ACA. Learn something before you post.

Spoken like a true "tea bagger".

A link to the actual poll. It seems 2 to 1 really translates into 53%.

http://www.people-press.org/2012/12/04/pessimism-about-fiscal-cliff-deal-republicans-still-get-more-blame/

FDJ-No President, regardless of political affiliation, should be given the power to raise the debt limit at will. The national debt belongs to the people of the United States, and the House of Representatives is representative of that population.

Actually the HOR is the least representative of the peoples will. The President is elected by the vote of the entire nation (I know about the Electoral College,but they go to whoever wins the state popular vote). The Senate is elected by a statewide election. But the House seats have been gerrymandered so badly that many of them don't really represent a fair selection of the voters.

Tell all of the Washington politicians to reach in their pockets and pay back the five trillion dollars they stole from the social security trust fund. It was both parties that participated in this.

The GOP is whining about the president wanting to include the debt ceiling raises being put in his hands. They are wrong headed on this one. The debt ceiling is raising the borrowing ceiling on money that has already been spent by the congress. The president can't spend money at will. That is the responsibility of the congress to appropriate funds for programs they pass. In simple terms it is money the GOP has agreed to spend by passing bills (along with the dems). Can't have it both ways......spend trillions on two wars then try to hold the pres. hostage with the debt ceiling. People are beginning to see what a deceptive tactic this. The pres. shouldn't have to deal w/this arm twisting every six months. The GOP generated the majority of the deficit (10 trillion) for two off-the-books wars. The balance was the president trying to save the country from another deep depression (he's succeeding). The people have spoken GOP....get used to it.

53% and climbing to 54% ... Whats a mandate down there if your side lost? 51% after deducting Women, Blacks and Hispanics?

I believe what they were saying is that the number of people that voted for Obama was not half of the population, when they KNOW that the people that vote ARE the decision makers!

I'm a former Repub... the party self destructed for the values that I stood for, so buh-bye narcicist!!

Actually, Feisty Redhead, I thought 2.1 was your best post ever!!

Can't wait for our home schooled "graduates" to show up to explain how 53% doesn't equal a majority... again! lol

Feisty: I love your post. The one above is not funny. It is scary. At a minimum, there should be some form of public testing before these 'students' are considered graduates.

Your post can make any day brighter. ☺

That is the whole problem with the system. As long as someone else is paying they think it is a good plan. When you can vote to spend someone elses money its easy to support things. It is a sure thing those votes would change very quickly if they were affected either by a cut or tax increase. When you have no skin in the game you really shouldn't have much say in how things are done.

After election night, they above all should know how it feels to have your entitlements scuttled.

Once more unto the breach dear friends, once more.

I think somehow they envision themselves as heroic, manning the gates of Simpleton Castle against the evil horde of the vast majority. The last bastion of the failed crusade. Will they become martyrs? Please?

It is scary.

ExitO,

It was meant to be, half these people home schooling their kids can barely read & write themselves.

I'm sorry but the majorit of them have NO business thinking they are qualified to educate their children!

Your post can make any day brighter. ☺

As do yours... ☺

Sweden does not allow home schooling Could that be one reason the population is better educated than in the U.S.?

Obama won by almost 54%. Romney got 47%. This is the biggest margin a President has won by since Eisenhower. Not to mention the electoral landslide.

Obama has a mandate. Period. End of story.

How else would NBC portray it? Get a job, Feisty, so I don't have to carry your 300 lbs of dead weight any longer.

[Sweden does not allow home schooling Could that be one reason the population is better educated than in the U.S.?]

There isn't a need for home-schooling in Sweden. They simply have a better education system than here due to the amount of money invested in each child compared to here in the U.S.

[Can't wait for our home schooled "graduates" to show up to explain how 53% doesn't equal a majority... again! lol]

Hey there Feisty!

It's more a matter of the ignorants wearing blinders, as home schooled children tend to be better educated.

I can't believe it, no comments from the uneducated, lack of math skills right wing nut jobs. I'm still laughing at those fools that said 52% is not a majority. What a bunch right wing rejects.. hahahaha

the key is that we need BOTH! I don't mind paying more in taxes, just keep your hands off my entitlements and I'm all good!

Cuts to military, pay off the debt that we owe, and get a budget! Isn't there a law saying that our government REQUIRES a budget? If not, should be...

Actually skyparrot, American people are as ignorant as GOPers think. At least when it comes to economics, politics, Campiagn strategy, PR, Marketing and Sales. Now this doesn't mean Americans are stupid. It just means that they don't have the time/interest/means to absorb themselves in the complicated and ever changing sport of politics.

Democrats are aware of this fact even more so than Republicans, and used it wisely to run a very intelligent campaign, based not on actual issues and track records, but on personal atttacks and made up "wars". They used the very fact that most Americans ARE ignorant of the details, to fill their heas with nonsense, half truths and flat out lies.

The irony of your statement is that it would actually have been impossible for Obama to have won re-election without the majority of American being ignorant.

mickymac- it must just really frost you that the more educated populace voted for President Obama. Clearly that means that the most ignorant and those most succeptible to ignorant advertising - which is what the GOP presented - voted for Mitt! Apparently that includes you!

"just keep your hands off my entitlements and I'm all good!"

Wow. Just.... wow.

No mickymac, you've got it backwards. The GOP wasn't able to fool the majority with their lies this election. The made up "wars" are only "made up" to the RWNJ's that think vaginal probes are not an attack on a woman's right to privacy, not to mention their dignity.

Vaginal probes? Really? Seriously, I've never seen so many drama queens since my days of watching General Hospital. First it's the democrats accusing republicans of using "scare" and "fear" tactics after 9/11 to get the Presidency. Now they turn around and do the same thing to gain the Presidency back from Republicans. It's a never-ending cycle of idiocy! We as Americans need to stop supporting BOTH of these out-of-touch delinquent parties and no more settling for the lesser of two evils - and don't give me any more of that Messiah/Savior crap - both Mitt and Obama were/are evil. Neither one cares about you or me or anyone else but themselves and their own families. Come on people, wake up! We deserve better than the choices we've been given!

Yeah KMR, too bad it's not drama. Your legislators were actually trying to pass a law requiring it.

mickymac -

Ahahahahahahaha! You have simply got to be kidding!

based not on actual track records - there's a good damned reason that the borrowed Republican meme "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?" didn't last very long in the last election... because we sure as hell are! If you can't admit that, you are suffering from amnesia!

personal attacks - let's see, birth certificate, communist, socialist, in fact, your very statement "American people are as ignorant..." none of these count, I take it? Yeah, Republicans were just pure as the driven snow in their campaigning, weren't they? Hypocrite!

and made up "wars" - ahahahahahahaha! that takes the cake as the most ill-phrased attack by a righty in the last 4 years!!! Can you spell I-R-O-N-Y?

KMR: "Vaginal probes? Really? Seriously, I've never seen so many drama queens since my days of watching General Hospital."

So you enjoy being probed? If you don't have a vagina, I'm certain an alternate can be suggested. Hmmm..then watch the drama queen squeal begin!!! Hoo weee!

The president's tone is conciliatory? You mean his "my way or the highway" retoric? His raise taxes now and maybe we will talk about spending cuts later?

It was passed under duress. No one in their right mind would willingly vote to decimate the United States Government with an across the board 20% budget cut. That was the only way Congress could get the Teabaggers to allow the debt ceiling increase. That will (if it happens) end the recovery...period. Now when the economy collapses, I personally am well armed and my friends are well armed...so we'll do OK. And as in the case with any collapse of a society, the burning question will be..."What's in your wallet?"

Nothing my Friend is passed in the Congress under duress. These folk know exactly what they were doing.

Again, I'll repeat, if tax and entitlement reform were the objective THEY WOULD HAVE MADE THEIR 'INACTION' AN ILLEGAL ACT. Instead, they simply wrote that tax rates would go back a previous level.

I don't see any duress in that.

No offense intended, but weaponry means nothing to me. If things got to the point where people, let alone the Government were coming with the intention of getting things, all we're doing is fighting the clock...we're done already.

It was the Democrats that insisted on the Bush tax cuts be considered temporary (10 yrs) and would automatically expire on 31 Dec 2010), so let the tax cuts expire and we can blame the Democrats for taxes being increased on everyone. It was President Obama that agreed to extend the tax cuts, after promising that he would veto any extension. President Obama could have vetoed the extension of Bush's tax cuts, and hold Congress responsible to pass an extension of unemployment benefits in a separate bill.

ol_doc. tough talker.

sweetsweetdrew

ol_doc. tough talker.

Really?...sweet sweet drew?

It is what it is.

sfcret

It was the Democrats that insisted on the Bush tax cuts be considered temporary (10 yrs) and would automatically expire on 31 Dec 2010), so let the tax cuts expire and we can blame the Democrats for taxes being increased on everyone...

Not going to happen Sarg...it's already been decided...Republican's fault! 2014 here we come!

Ol_Doc - The American people have a short memory span when it comes to blame and credit for certain things. Most elections are based on what is happening within a few months of the election and not what took place several years in the past.

Sfcret - I don't believe you are taking into consideration the change in demographics, the tarnished Republican brand (unpopularity), the lack of quality candidates, arcane campaign systems (Republican Leadership's words...not mine). I believe the Republican Party had it's shot this last election but failed to leave the launch pad. This country does not want to return to the 18th Century and by 2020 in will be virtually impossible for a predominantly white party to win a national election without significant minority help. It appears the party simply refuses to see reality. The Republican Leadership understands it but they've set the wheels in motion and it's tough to stop a train.

1funnygirl,

I think . . .

From everything I've seen of your posts, you don't.

Aaahhh, poor baby. What's the matter? Did they shut off your comments board over at FauxForDumbFux news outlet? Remind me again about how far to the left wing Joe Scarborough swings.

slanted to demean the conservatives

====

And what exactly do "conservatives" want that can be shown via their current actions and validated by their actions over the last 30 years? I would presume if they are so evident, examples should be rolling off of your tongue and you shouldn't have to reference any of those mean, old alphabet soup organizations.

Cheese with that whine?

1funnygirl

With the alphabet news outlets pro Obama, it's no wonder how the reporting is slanted to demean the conservatives.

1. Fourteen Conservative law makers met on the day President Obama was inaugurated to layout plans to sabotage the economy in order to prevent the President from being re-elected. Do you understand, they throw the American People under the bus to regain power.

2. Nearly all Republican law makers signed an agreement with Grover Norquist abdicating their responsibilities to govern this nation for the sake of enriching 1% of the population.

And you think the media is demeaning the conservatives? They don't need the media, they are doing a fine job of demeaning themselves.

"it's no wonder how the reporting is slanted to demean the conservatives"

Still think you're ahead in the polls, huh?

In case it passed you without notice, Conservatives demean themselves just fine without much help from anyone else. Your "Alphabet News" post serving as "Exhibit A" for display purposes here...

ALL the news agencies and their extended families (including and perhaps most especially Faux) just finished fleecing the handful of people making up the conservative private campaign donor pool by making it appear close to low information ignorant conservative voters up to the last minute... Be careful who you denigrate for they could become your new masters with all that cash changing hands.

Ol Doc---what is really sad is that there is not more outrage over the 2 points you make. I understand the opposition party wanting to get back into office but we faced a crisis in 2008 and their fellow citizens were (and many still are) in dire circumstances and the GOP didn't care. All they care about is keeping their pledge to Norquist (who seems creepier with every interview). It is truly despicable behavior.

With the alphabet news outlets pro Obama, it's no wonder how the reporting is slanted to demean the conservatives. Can't win when the left controls the media.

I can't help but compare this statement by those of the Republican party during the last election claiming:

Their case rests on the notion that mainstream media polls are oversampling Democrats. “I don’t think [the polls] reflect the composition of what 2012 is going to look like,” Romney pollster Neil Newhouse recently told The Hill.

Turns out, that just wasn't true... and neither is your statement.

Oh boo-hoo libbies. Sanity, you're nothing more than a leg-humping Obama facist. Always critical of others with just a hint of a solialist in you.

Keep the childish quotes coming old broad - they are meaningless. Norquist this honey....and your liberal media does bash the right every change it has. You only have to turn on the leg-himper Matthews or the Ed show to see how ignorant and uninformed they are.

Progressives good - conservatives bad. It's a racist thing to bash Obama, but those two can use the B or C word every opportunity to demean conservative women and that's okay with libs. What a joke.

So tell me dukester, where will Obama get the funding for his programs when the 1% will find ways to circumvent those laws he wants to pass? Don't ya just love the surcharge you will pay when you sell you home? Or how about the taxes on Obamacare that will soon show up?

I believe it's quite simple - Obama wants to see us go over the cliff.

Moron alert!

I'll tell you what IS funny though, baby girl: did you see that sign in front of Boner? "focused on jobs!" Hilarious stuff!

Oh wait a minute! I'll bet he's talking about him and his Republicon buddies' jobs, right? Things that make you go "hmmmmmm...."

Steeler Fan-380417

Here's the problem as I see it. Both of those points are so outrageous who would believe it? Even though it's true, we've become so desensitized and reoriented to five word sound bites that insane yet complex concepts go right over most folks heads.

Also there is the false equivalency factor. When you bring up these kinds of abuses to the American people the ones doing the abuse point to a non-equivalent abuse perpetuated by the other side and shout ...look, they do it too! There is no more investigative journalism with extensive factual expose's. It's sad but to stay well informed about US internal events you have to turn to something like BBC.

1funnygirl

I believe it's quite simple - Obama wants to see us go over the cliff.

I don't believe Obama want's us to go over the cliff. I, however, do want us to go over the cliff. I'm sick and tired of the lying whining Republicans and their obsession with transferring wealth from the middle-class to the wealthy 1%...thirty years is enough! So, want to call our bluff...

...Go for it!

The Republicans realize that you don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. You Democrats only know one thing...tax people who earn it and give it to the government to dole out to people who didn't earn it. We have a SPENDING problem. SPENDING you moron. We need to cut SPENDING!!!! The republicans realize this, the democrats DO NOT. Now I voted for RON PAUL. DId you vote for him? He NEVER voted for an unbalanced budget in his 30 years in congress. He voted AGAINST the wars. He believes in following the CONSTITUTION. Learn about him then you'll understand, until then, you're plum IGNORANT. Americans came to this country to ESCAPE high taxes, and you fools are making them LEAVE to ESCAPE high taxes. Economic FREEDOM means not getting TAXED to death.

I have had two wives and assorted live-ins. Nuff said about that.

The problem is raising rates on most taxpayers now when the economy is more fragile. Had the tax cuts not been implemented during Bush's tenure, then the deficit would not have been so high as it is now. We will pay more taxes under President Obama's plan but we also think it's the right thing to do.

I would much prefer to pay higher income taxes now than raise the full retirement age for Social Security and for Medicare. While some people may be able to fully contribute to the work place until the age of 67, not all can and raising the age will significantly hurt those that need to retire earlier.

And, we can reduce defense spending but we need to continue to provide for our military and veterans so they receive the care they need after sacrificing so much to defend us. When we reduce spending on defense, we need to look at defense contractor spending rather than reducing benefits of military personnel or further reducing the size of the military.

...we need to look at defense contractor spending rather than reducing benefits of military personnel or further reducing the size of the military.

I wholeheartedly agree! The entire wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were outsourced. Hell, they had private contractors cooking and serving meals - a duty that used to be performed by military personnel.

A return to that might even lead to better conditions for our troops - how many were electrocuted by shoddy electrical work by private contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan?

I feel like the blame should be on all of us for electing these clowns!

And the head clown is BOzo in the WH.

Ben - no clearly the head clown is Boehner, followed closely by Cantor, McConnell, etc. followed by YOU!

You are such a nice person Seeking. God Bless you.

Ben - this coming from the person calling our President BOzo? I'm sure that's supposed to be a putdown but you are hardly in a position to put anyone down.

Wow Bennie... Straight from calling your duly elected President a bozo to handing out God's blessings... That's got "empty vessel" written all over it. I can't say for sure, but I don't think baby jesus thinks your funny.

It was a joke. A play on initials and the topic of clowns. He is the leader you know. The rules of Newsvine clearly state that with very few exceptions public/elected figures are open to ridicule, trash talk, snarks, etc. while taking cheap shots at other posters are not. But somehow, you seem to escape the wrath of the moderators. You truly are Blessed.

Hey chick put on a happy face and rejoice. You guys won. It's a time for celebration. I don't mean to make you so defensive.

Ben-636050

Ben, this is a FR page not an NBC one ... you can say as you please. @!$%#, @!$%#, @!$%# ... whatever.

Huh??? It says above FR on NBCnews.com. So, the Newsvine COH are not applicable here or just selectively?

Ben: "Hey chick put on a happy face and rejoice"

Here's another suggestion for you Ben--why not sit on a happy face and rejoice? It's up to you, (and the happy face upon which you may choose to sit, of course) ;^)

Hey Maxwell, why don't you try to get Seeking to sit on your happy face. Sounds like the Dukester needs some fun in her life.

The only Santa they don't believe in is the one who says. "Happy Holidays".

BCWC....That would be correct our Santa Says merry Christmas to All and to All a good night

...Republicans don't believe in any of them!

Well, after the election, they believe a little more in election polls... hahahahahahaha!

It's rhetoric..crisp......who said republicans are dumb?

Right denoid......except the ones that said the empty suit was going to win by a landslide. Mmmmmmm?

They will say the poll over-samples Democrats and can't be trusted.

I take it that you are some sort of Hillbilly genius from W. PA? You people need to merge with your cousins from W. VA. and shut up. And don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about. I am from that sink hole up there beautiful Kinzua Country.. The country would be better off if you were all just wiped away. I love the Steelers and Pens, bet the people up there are sad, stupid and you do cling to your guns and religion. You serve no purpose whatsoever. On the bright side, if East of Harrisburg doesn't want something, you have to go along with.

Brenda - and your post has what to do with anything?????

Seeking Sanity---I believe my apology for Pa. being the home of Rick Santorum should also cover folks like Brenda!

Whoa girlfriend, bitter much?

Ad hominems don't win arguments and you've just shown yourself to be one of those hillbilly rednecks with your inability to engage in critical thinking and thoughtful dialogue--you must have left your brain under the Kinzua Dam or something. Now, do you have anything constructive to add?

Actually I find Brenda to be cool. Check the history of comments guys and gals.

XOX Brenda

The polls said Obama was going to win. He did. End of story.

Back under the bridge, troll!!

Back to your single-wide genius...and go tell your cousin you want a divorce.

They lost their bridge in the recent election Auntie... Now they take turns sleeping under each other. The only difference from the past being the missing bridge. Their real names are Neil and Bob. Both were separated from their families at young ages following "difficulties" involving their siblings.

Neither of them are very familiar with Snarcheology.

Why did you vote for Bush.....twice and doom the economy to this nightmare?

No. Seems the GOP are going to "punish" Obama by giving him everything he wants. What a bunch of morons.

...Obama promised not to raise taxes for those making under 250k...if he cant negotiate a deal to prevent it from happening...then its his fault...lets do the cliff...and let the chips fall...

walt-2102889

It appears voters don't see it that way. Sucks to be you.

If there is no deal then tax increases and spending cuts take effect on Jan 1. Democrats will introduce legislation to lower taxes on those earning less than $250K. Republicans will then have to decide to block it or vote on it. If Republicans don't go along with a middle class tax cut then they will face a very angry electorate in 2014. Defencse spending takes a big hit on Jan 1, but social programs don't.

Democrats already have most of what they wanted.

In my opinion, Republicans agreed to this deal because they were confident of having more control, but ended up with less. They misread the elctorate and it hurt them. They dare not make the same mistake twice.

Will Barefoot: " Democrats will introduce legislation to lower taxes on those earning less than $250K."

Actually I believe this has already been done. Bill 3412 passed in the Senate. The Republicons so far have decided to block it.

So much for their caring about 98% of US citizens and not raising taxes, eh?

Any poll from the Pew Research Center and the Washington Post , will be slanted to the left, there is no true un biased poll...

Except the ones having Obama winning easily.

Actually the tax cuts were passed in 2001... Clinton would have been president all during 2000..

I thought the whole premise to cutting taxes for the rich is to create jobs. Funny when Bush was in office from 2000 thru 2008, that most of the job growth came from the public sector government. When President Obama was in office, we had like 25 straight months of private sector job growth. With absolutely NO support from the Tea Party House Republican Fascist Pigs. The Tea Party is the most destructive force in American Politics today. And you know it cupcake.

GRAND OLD PARTY/TBAGS ARE DONE!!!!!

Tea Party Common Sense

I couldn't get past this screen name... Is that an Oxy-oxy-moron-moron? A Duoxy-moron?

In my experience, this oft-used yet never validated cluster of words equates to an exceedingly superficial view of select issues failing to adequately hide other equally superficial and outdated social views.

It's true the deficits are huge and taking "$50-$80B" from the "rich" won't solve the debt problems but it's a start. There is no place in the economy where you can go to get the full amount it will take to begin to solve the problem. One thing they should do is get rid of the cap on payroll taxes, the lower income people pay those taxes on every dollar they earn, the higher income people don't have to pay after they earn about $108,000 per year, and those wealthy folks whose income is from capitol gains pay no Social Security or Medicare taxes on that income. Not fair! We will need more revenue from every possible source, plus cuts from every possible source. The odd thing to me is that some people seem to think that making the top 1-2% pay their share of taxes won't help to solve the problem but somehow taking a few hundred dollars from Social Security and Medicare recipients, many of whom are living below the poverty line will solve the problem. Recipients of these benefits paid into them out of every pay check they got from their entire working lives, it is not an 'entitlement' it's reaping the benefits that they paid for over many years.

If they really wanted to fairly solve the problems we have they would first of all make the tax system more fair, the richest people who have gotten the most benefits of the tax code should appreciate it enough to pay their share. Next they should go over every item in the budget and take out those things that money is spent on that is not necessary. Even a few thousand dollars in cuts here and there would help. Those "few thousand" dollars have helped to cause overspending. I forgot the exact quote, but someone once said worry about the pennies, the dollars will take care of themselves.

After doing all the above if we don't get more people working and paying taxes (which would also increase the revenue) and nothing more can be cut, then it might be okay to see about reducing "entitlements". Some entitlements could be means tested, but taking money from the poor, disabled, old and sick should be the last thing we should do.

Can any of you Obama sycophants please tell me how getting $50-$80B a year from the "rich" puts a dent in our enormous $1.1 TRILLION+ annual deficits? Or how taking that money creates private sector jobs? Anyone?

Why, the same way that Republicans getting $80B per year from closing tax loopholes (their $800B number was over 10 years - or $80B per year) does! In spite of the fact that Oabam can calcualte that his tax hike will generate $60-80 Billion per year and Republicans won't say which loopholes they can close to generate $80B per year (a dozen other experts claim they can't possibly generate $80B).

Now, explain to me why taking $80B from the rich by closing loopholes generate jobs BUT taking $80B from the rich through a tax hike does not?

There is no logic and no sense in the Republican arguments fighting this tax hike!

Your moniker is a classic oxymoron.

T party no common sense:

We've had 30 years of "trickle down" economics. Where are the jobs?

And please explain to me how giving the ultra rich MORE money while impoverishing the poor helps the deficit? How does corporate welfare and paying no taxes by ultra rich companies help the deficit? What about how these companies privatize their profits but socialize their losses -- how does that help the deficit? Why does trickle up (money flowing upwards so that the rich get richer--the poor and middle class poorer) -- how does that help the deficit? Hell, they don't even keep their $ on American soil in US banks!

Our economy is consumer driven. We've got plenty of supply but no demand--the more $ you take from the poor and middle class--the less they can afford to buy. You tell me: how does any of this help our deficit?

Tea Party Common Sense

Can any of you Obama sycophants please tell me how getting $50-$80B a year from the "rich" puts a dent in our enormous $1.1 TRILLION+ annual deficits? Or how taking that money creates private sector jobs? Anyone?

Thanks to decades of increasing dependency on government and the bloated programs to feed it, we've already fallen off the fiscal cliff. What's happening now is an argument over who hits the ground first.

Let it burn. We got the government we deserve.

Well since we've already fallen off the cliff, you won't mind if we just officially finish the job and proclaim "screw you" to the Republicans in Congress do you? I'm more than happy to pay a couple grand extra per year if it hurts the top 1%. I'll cheer as the millionaires fall from high rise buildings faster than the Dow falls in the market. You've had your way with us for over 30 years...now let's see what happens!

Hey -OL_Doc- are you going to pay my extra taxes to?

I for one can't afford to..

MillerMan15

Hey -OL_Doc- are you going to pay my extra taxes to?

I for one can't afford to..

If you can't afford it, you're exempt from Income tax. If you simply don't want to afford it...you're SOL.

It is partly for the fairness. So people don't think the elite are getting off easily. And just think....it will pay for hurricane Sandy. Fitting.

You're a pinhead. Do the math!!

...here's some math for you...the sum of my degrees are greater than your IQ...

walt - not a chance in h*ll!

The only degree you ever got was the third degree!!

Now that's funny. You guys all friends???

Don't challenge Walt regarding the sum of his degrees... he has 98.6 of them.

Walt....you really seem like a rocket scientist. What is escape velocity?

You can give 2 craps about the fiscal debt. Considering people like YOU never showed the same kind of concern about the rising debt when Bush was in office from 2000 thru 2008. In terms of the taxcuts for the rich to two un funded military occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan to an unfunded Medicare Part D Program.

What should the very poor/working poor give up in order to pay "their fair share" under a flat tax? Food? Housing? Electricity? Medication? Having been a member of the working poor, it really would come down to that kind of decision. Gods help us (since I was married at the time) if one of us got sick and lost time at work, or even worse, had to go to a doctor and take medication. We had no health insurance but made just a bit too much to qualify for 100% "adjustment" at the ER, so we still got a bill on top of having to pay for medications. If I got sick, I missed work (which meant less income since I was an hourly employee and didn't have "sick days"). If I got REALLY sick (like with pneumonia which HAPPENED, oh and I almost DIED since I delayed going to the ER and it was touchy after I went since I refused to be ADMITTED) I had to go to the ER, get a bill for going there, get multiple medications, pay FULL PRICE for the medications and then decide how to eat until the bill was paid.

But I'd be willing to bet that you've NEVER been that poor. You just don't UNDERSTAND that a flat tax would leave the rich paying LESS and drive the working poor into a situation where they literally have to decide what necessity to cut in order to pay taxes on their meager earnings. Flat tax proponents really have no clue as to how precarious the lives of those who work (many of those retail employees) yet are just barely scraping by are. Think about the difference in living if your gross income is $20,800 (full time at $10.00/hr) or $24,960 (full time at $12.00/hr). Think about lopping of ANY percentage off the top. I'll go with 10% so that it's easier and use the $12/hr job since it's a higher wage.

At $24,960/yr that's $2,080/mo. 10% (no matter how you divide it - whether off the annualized or monthly figure) would be $2,496 annually - which sounds like a small amount. But let's look at that on a monthly basis so you can understand the impact on a monthly budget. The 10% comes to $208/mo which leaves $1,872 to live off of out of the monthly figure. Before we can begin our calculations, we have to also pay FICA (15% of $2080 which is $312/mo) and pay state taxes (let's assume 10% again to bring the state taxes to $208/mo). That brings our monthly budget down to $1,352. Out of that $1,352 you have to pay rent. Now, I believe the average rent in Richmond (about as equidistant from me as DC and less expensive to live in) is right around $1,000, but let's use $900 instead because the taxpayer looked around and got a deal. That leaves $452 after rent is paid. Out of that $452, the taxpayer has to pay electricity which comes to on average about $50/mo. So that leaves $402. Out of that $402, the taxpayer has to pay transportation costs. Now, let's say that the taxpayer was GIFTED a car by their parents so that they could live a bit further outside of the city in order to get a better rent. They have to pay gas to and from work. Let's say an average of 15 miles one-way so that's 30 miles round-trip. Let's posit that the car gets exactly 30 MPG so that's a gallon of gas every day, at $3.20/gal ... so for 21 days per month that comes to $67.20 which leaves $334.80. Next we have insurance, which we'll say is $250 per 6 month term and $41.67/mo. That leaves $293.13. Next we have a telephone bill - either landline or cell (not both), because the taxpayer has to be able to keep in touch with an employer. That bill is $30/mo, which leaves our taxpayer $263.13. Now, our taxpayer has to eat something (and they don't qualify for Government assistance, which flat-taxers generally don't believe in anyway) so that leaves the $263.13 which breaks down to $65.14/week. That doesn't take into account gas to get to and from the grocery store, but that's ok. That doesn't include ANY money to fix the vehicle or even change the oil to keep it running. That doesn't include ANYTHING other than what I've outlined above.

Tell me again how a "flat-tax" works best. That same 10% tax rate is a "drop in the bucket" for a wealthy person and a real tax DECREASE from the 14% that even Mitt Romney paid.

Been there, done that. In the late 1950's when our daughter was about old enough to go to kindergarten she needed 25 cents a week for milk money at school. We didn't know how we would afford that extra 25 cents out of our tiny income. Somehow we managed it but I will never forget how tough it was.

People who have never been in that situation cannot begin to imagine how stressful it is. I imagine there are many families there right now because of businesses not paying fair wages to their employees simply because there are so many out of work they know they can pay unfairly low wages. Hope that changes for all of you very soon.

Your working poor should just get a gig like Romney, make $58,000.00 per day and pay 13% tax. Problem solved.

the left wing fascists don't understand how the society works.

lets go off the cliff...

Steve Sharkman

It's good to see a Republican who understands the ultimate cure for our economic woes by simply doing nothing...full reboot...Talk about a serious {Ctrl+Alt}{Delete}

This should convince folks how important the 2nd Amendment is...see, I finally agree with the Tea Baggers!

Exactly!

I agree, congress needs to hold fast and allow the fiscal cliff scenario to happen. if this does happen, the entitlement dregs will be in for a huge surprise and a clueless Obama will have another recession of his own making on his hands.

Wet Willy

Yes, and the Republicans in Congress will get the blame for it (and rightfully so).

Ol doc 25.5

Really? The republicans will get the blame? Exactly who will be doing the blaming? Most likely the aforementioned entitlement dregs that already blame the republicans for everything and anything. BFD.

Over the cliff we go.