(through closing loopholes),

When will they disclose which loopholes they plan to close?

Since Romney/Ryan were either unwilling or incapable of laying out some specifics, isn't it time Congressional Republican'ts step up to the plate?

Why are they such a stinking secret?

President Obama was no doubt laughing all the way to the paper shredder with their "grand plan".

It's not worth lining my cats litter box with... lol

Backhouse

Remember the debt clock at the GOP convention?

Who can forget? It's doesn't appear that the GOP/Tea Potty has. It is incredulous that John Boehnoer and Mitch McConnel would have the audacity to present the same, exact, plan that caused the debt clock.

You're right Backhouse we not be bamboozled or bluffed

RepubliCOns are clowns

Good morning, Feisty, Bev, David,

"Stripped to essentials, the fiscal cliff is a device constructed to force a rollback of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, as the price of avoiding tax increases ..."

"It was policy-making by hostage-taking, timed for the lame duck session, a contrived crisis, the plain idea now unfolding was to force a stampede. " (J. Galbraith)

“Their plan includes nothing new and provides no details on which deductions they would eliminate, which loopholes they will close or which Medicare savings they would achieve.” But let’s be honest: Just like the White House’s proposal last week, this GOP move is largely playing to the base rather than being a serious offer.

Yeah...the GOP base includes the old rich white men who donated boocoo bucks to Romney's LOSER campaign and got no return on their investment. They aren't very happy right now. I guess Boehner has to try to placate them, somehow.

Time to call in William Shatner as a negotiator? Name your price, GOP! ;)

Speaking of Playing to the base, Can FOX NOISE go any lower?

Fox News chief’s failed attempt to enlist Petraeus as presidential candidate

Roger Ailes advised Peturaues to turn down an expected offer from President Obama to become CIA director and accept nothing less than the chairmanship of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the top military post. If Obama did not offer the Joint Chiefs post, Petraeus should resign from the military and run for president,

McFarland also said that Ailes — who had a decades-long career as a Republican political consultant, advising Richard M. Nixon, Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush — might resign as head of Fox to run a Petraeus presidential campaign. At one point, McFarland and Petraeus spoke about the possibility that Rupert Murdoch, the head of News Corp., which owns Fox News, would “bankroll” the campaign.

“Rupert’s after me as well,” Petraeus told McFarland.

Kathleen T. McFarland, a Fox News national security analyst and former national security and Pentagon aide in three Republican administrations said she had spoken “directly” to the Fox News chairman and the “advice to you from Roger Ailes is. . . . He says that if you’re offered [JCS] chairman, take it. If you’re offered anything else, don’t take it; resign in six months and run for president.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/fox-news-chiefs-failed-attempt-to-enlist-petraeus-as-presidential-candidate/2012/12/03/15fdcea8-3d77-11e2-a2d9-822f58ac9fd5_story.html?hpid=z2

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This proves it. FOX NOISE is the Republican Headquarters and a hateful one at that. If the MNSBC had done something this egregious FOX NOISE would be demanding the FCC take MSNBC's license.

ThAnks MNBC FOR KEEPING IT FAIR AND BALANCED

But let’s be honest: Just like the White House’s proposal last week, this GOP move is largely playing to the base rather than being a serious offer.

Nothing like playing politics while the country gets a huge tax increase! I am at the point that maybe we can try one thing at a time - for instance eliminate the earning cap on SS, wonder how much revenue that would bring in?

Actually, David, maybe they should ban Alcohol and mistresses.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/chief_other_girl_uULWUcuM7p4tJb2PLeaITP

But then what would Liberals do with all their free time......

David Walker, your comment was well written and thought-provoking, as always.

The gun nuts seem to have a twisted definition of freedom. I wouldn't call it 'living in freedom' to have to worry every day that I or a loved one will be a victim in the next maniacal gun incident.

Now that President Obama has been re-elected and no longer has that particular political snare to step into, isn't it time we had a national conversation about handguns?

WCA writes:

"Actually, David, maybe they should ban Alcohol and mistresses."

Who's "they"? The evil folks bent on making you a full-time victim? Your constant whining is pathetic.

When will they disclose which loopholes they plan to close?

As soon as the WH discusses the specifics of the cuts they are going to make and when. (Other than military)

Agent Orange

From the article above:

-- but not rates on the wealthy -- the White House and Democrats immediately rejected it. "The Republican letter released today does not meet the test of balance,” said White House Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer. “Their plan includes nothing new and provides no details on which deductions they would eliminate, which loopholes they will close or which Medicare savings they would achieve.”

Yeh, we all saw that coming.

The article continues…

In the New York Times, David Brooks sees a similar middle ground. “Republicans have to realize that they are going to cave on tax rates. The only question is what they get in return.

And cave in, they will.

To some extent, I think most of this hype comes from the media itself.

After commanding the attention of the American public during the 2012 election, the only thing they got is this “Fiscal Curb” thing. The media still has to sell advertising spots for the latest Christmas crap from Wal-mart.

Both sides have made their proposals now, so the next step is to stand in front of the camera and blame the other side.

Agent Orange, a.k.a. Congressman Boehner, wants to make sure he at least LOOKS like he is in control, but as we already know, the President is holding all the cards and it is obvious to me, the two-time elected Democrat President has no reason whatsoever to cave into congress this time.

Salud

Backhouse

Good morning, Feisty, Bev, David,

"Stripped to essentials, the fiscal cliff is a device constructed to force a rollback of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, as the price of avoiding tax increase

Good morning Backhouse and all my fellow liberals.

Some how the GOP thinks by serving their higher masters, Norquist Koch bros, NRA, ALEC and all the Wall Street Barons, the safety net programs are inconsequential. Eliminating these programs is their aim because their ideology says we on the left are takers and have not worked hard enough to desire what is rightfully ours.

In essence they are the takers since their hands are itching to put SS on Wall Street.

Does anybody feel safer now that I can bring my gun more places than my cigarettes?

Walker: Your constant whining is pathetic.

Says the resident Liberal victim, after his dissertation on why all guns owners are bad people.

Wonder if Belcher had any knives in house, hell, I'm guessing he probably could have strangled her or beat her to feath if that was his intention. He was an NFL Linebacker for God's sake.

Blame the instrument not the person, eh, there victim-boy?

I tell ya folks, you can't make this stuff up.

Here's the humor about all you libs :

But let’s be honest: Just like the White House’s proposal last week, this GOP move is largely playing to the base rather than being a serious offer.

Yes, the gop is playing to it's base, I saw that first off when the proposal was made public. But not a damn stinking one of you would admit that obama's first offer was even more laughable. At least 'slavery' Todd was honest here for once.

Maybe if you liberals could admit the mistakes of your party, you might be listened to a bit more seriously.

But continue blaming the gop for everything and stating your party is completely innocent.

As we are in the midst of the holiday season now, this of course is the time of year when we pay particular attention to those less fortunate than ourselves.

Lawrence O'Donnell has asked us to remember the children in Malawi who want nothing more than desks at this time. I have asked friends and family to donate whatever they can to the K.I.N.D. (Kids In Need of Desks) Fund in association with UNICEF in place of a gift for me.

I neither want nor need anything for myself this Christmas. I am a firm believer that Christmas is for kids.

This is such a worthwhile cause for these children who deserve desks instead of sitting on the floor, while they get their educations.

As you all consider ways to help others this Holiday Season, please keep in mind Lawrence's Rewrite dedicated to his viewers in appreciation of K.I.N.D. donations. He is quite emotional and honored by the responses below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L5DyPArPWk

Here is the website for Last Word/K.I.N.D if you would like to donate:

http://tv.msnbc.com/shows/the-last-word/

Stand firm Mr. President the vast majority of the nation is not buying what republicans are selling, if they want to throw themselves off the cliff let them, then revenue goes up and spending goes down, that's what they agreed to, let them have exactly that. Republicans do not have to negotiate against the president they have to negotiate against the automatic triggers they already agreed to, no need for the president to concede anything. Obviously their whole agreement to the automatic triggers was based on them believing they would have the oval office by the time it would take effect, that did not happen for them so either get what the country wants voluntarily from them or get it involuntarily by nature of making them honor the triggers they agreed to.

Has anyone been paying Attention to Europes Average Unemployment, since Austerity measures were Done?

It is 11% !

Even Ronnie RayGun knew you could'nt Cut your way out of a Recession!

You Betcha!

Occupy SoggyBottom!

Blame the instrument not the person, eh, there victim-boy?

WCA, isn't your attempted reasoning that Belcher could have killed the woman and himself another way a bit ridiculous?

Sure, he could have... but he didn't.

I guess he could have strangled himself...

Nah, KB. The only victims here were the mother and the now orphaned child.

The courts would have dealt with Belcher in much the same we deal with most murderers.

I really don' care what Belcher did to himself. Suppose he could have jumped off a bridge someplace, but I'm sure you knew that.

Sadly as I watched the NFL on Sunday, most of the focus was on the murderer, not the victim, which since it's the NFL, is all they could do. Try to paint it as best they could.

You folks worry about things like this but turn a blind eye to the murders in Chicago and Detroit on a daily basis.

In the end, you are all just hypocrites.

OK boys and girls, here's what we want.

1. Close the loopholes and deductions designed for the rich so they pay very little to no tax on their wealth. Fifteen percent Romney is a good example.

2. Leave the Middle Class tax cuts in place.

3. Raise the tax rate on the 2% ( they can afford it, they won't even feel it)

4. Cut military spending by 20% across the board. End the defense industry welfare. This will require the closing of some military bases. I suggest we start with Guantanamo, it is of NO strategic importance and there are other off-shore military bases we can close. We no longer need to be the world's police force.

5. Cut corporate welfare to zero. EXXON, et all need to pay their taxes, NOT get tax incentives when they are earning RECORD BREAKING profits.

6. Tax Church Property and income just like any other business. Like it or not kids we are a secular nation. More than 50% of Americans claim either "no" religious preference or "atheist/agnostic" when asked about their religion. Why are we paying to support the religious beliefs of a minority of citizens? I believe in freedom of religion but I do not believe in totally FREE religion, especially if I'm being asked to support belief's I do not share. Do this and Mormons, Southern Baptists and Catholics will retire the nation's deficit all by themselves in five years.

7. LEAVE MEDICARE, MEDICAID and SOCIAL SECURITY ALONE. We're in a deficit situation right now with these programs because of the baby boomers and the fact that the Congress keeps robbing these programs to pay for other things. As we die off all three programs will regain sustainability without any other adjustment. Well, as long as Congress keeps their dirty mits off of the funds.

8. Stop rewarding companies for shipping jobs off-shore. TAX THEM until they bring those jobs home.

9. TAX assetts of American Citizens hidden in the Caymans and Swiss banks, etc.

10. GIVE tax incentives to businesses who bring jobs home from overseas.

Folks, if we do those 10 simple things the deficit will be eliminated in less than a decade and we will have a budget surplus to leave for our children and grandchildren and we won't have to GUT Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

Further savings could be realized by legalizing Marijuana and TAXING IT'S SALE and PRODUCTION! That will also allow law enforcement to re-deploy those forces they currently have designated to enforce the drug laws and we'll empty out some of our over-crowded jails and prisons.

Legalize, regulate and TAX prostitution. Hey, some folks are going to hire prostitutes. It is the world's oldest profession. Get over your victorian selves and let's legalize it, regulate it and TAX IT like any other profession.

There, problem solved, make it so.

Obviously their whole agreement to the automatic triggers was based on them believing they would have the oval office by the time it would take effect, that did not happen for them...

Exactly, Forrest.

That's what comes of living in a bubble of made-up statistics, flawed internal polling, lies, hypocrisy, and --let's be blunt-- plain stupidity.

The GOP goons counted their chickens before they were hatched, and now the chickens have come home to roost.

Throw them off the cliff!!

I really can't see Obama meeting in the middle on anything. It is likely to drag out til the tax cuts expire and he will blame the failure of compromise on everyone but himself. If he would quit campaigning and help government work as designed, we may get somewhere.

I am thoroughly enjoying watching all of you you hypocrites now fighting FOR the Bush tax cuts.

This is really entertaining.

I went to buy a gun and they told me it would take at least three days, and I said "But I'm mad right now!"

Obama should continue to campaign and explain to the American people what his offer is, and what the Republicans are offering in return.

The government is working as designed. Republicans are going to lose on this one. Obama isn't going to negotiate from the middle like he did his first 4 years. Get over it.

If Republicans won't meet in the middle then they need to be replaced in 2014.

Say Ken have you seen the polling on raising taxes on the top 2%, cutting medicare, and cutting SS, the numbers are staggering and totally against the republicans plan, the vast majority of the nation does not want the president to compromise on those issues. Not to mention when has it ever been the presidents job to do what Congress is paid to do. You know for a party that tried to paint this president as ineffectual and irrelevant for four solid years they sure cry when he does not hold their hands every time they have to cross the street.

But then what would Liberals do with all their free time......

Perhaps you could ask that GOP darling Vitter, the purveyor of whorehouses and scotch. Thankfully he has to check his gun at the door, otherwise there would be a trail of dead prostitutes and shattered scotch bottles.

This is a little off the main topic, but I wanted to respond to David Walker, above:

David, I am still waiting for somebody to explain to me exactly what "well-regulated militia" Jared Loughner was a part of. Which "well-regulated militia" did Ryan Harris and Dylan Klebold, or their parents for that matter, belong to?

Now the tragedy in Kansas City is occupying the headlines, and Bob Costas seems to be catching hell for what must be the mildest response to needless gun violence on record. Apparently the gun maniacs- I so name them because to all appearances that's what they are, bloodthirsty maniacs- believe that the answer to gun deaths is always more firepower in more hands.

Good God, is there no end to their bloodlust? Is there no limit to their stupidity? My question to the gun maniacs is, How many dead schoolchildren and orphaned kids will it take to satisfy you? How much spilled blood is enough?

...and to all of us who have watched this cancer of violence grow and metastasize year after year, my question remains: What part of "a well-regulated militia" was Jovan Belcher?

White Collar Auto........

By and large, the middle class is paying a higher effective income tax rate than are the 2%. Additionally, the 2% pay less of their income to FICA and medicare. Those whose income is exclusively capital gains (i.e. Romney) pay ZERO into FICA and medicare.

We are fighting for fairness in our tax code. You, on the other hand, are fighting to conserve UNfairness in our tax code.

You will lose and we will win. It's odd that you would be entertained by that. But, given that you must look forward to at least 4 and probably 12 years of democrat presidency working relentlessly to undo our tax code (and other) inequity, you might as well enjoy the show.

Isn't democracy grand?

WCA, babbling even more incoherently, writes:

"I tell ya folks, you can't make this stuff up."

Actually folks, yes you can, and WCA does just that when he writes:

"Says the resident Liberal victim, after his dissertation on why all guns owners are bad people."

You can go to my post at 1.3 and you will see that there is no such assertion. No where does it state, suggest, or imply that all gun owners are bad people. However, now you can understand how and why WCA is able to find himself victimized by everything from a sunny morning to a rainy morning.

Forrest,

You are so right.

The GOP is basically negotiating with themselves! LOL

Skip if I was a prostitute my business card might say "it's a business doing pleasure with you" or maybe Forrest's House of Fun - "where the customer always comes first"

Steve Benen, Maddow Blog:

House Republican leaders presented a debt-reduction "plan" to the White House yesterday, which GOP officials insist is a "serious" offer. To help underscore why it's so very difficult to take the Republican proposal seriously, I put together this image, showing what each side would get as part of this attempt at "compromise.

"The Republicans get: tax rates they want, medicare cuts they want, SS cuts they want, the $1T in spending cuts they want, hundreds of billions of dollars in additional cuts, ending payroll tax break, extending extended jobless aid, opportunity to create a new debt ceiling crisis in a few
months.

The Democrats get a promise to end undefined tax deductions and loopholes at some point in 2013.

____________

Wasn't it Rachel Maddow last night who said the GOP's plan was actually just a basic case of plagerism. LoL.

Apparently the gun maniacs- I so name them because to all appearances that's what they are, bloodthirsty maniacs- believe that the answer to gun deaths is always more firepower in more hands.

Handguns are Viagra for the egos of the weak and fearful.

White Collar Auto

Nah, KB. The only victims here were the mother and the now orphaned child.

Collar

As long as the NRA continues to brain wash you and push gun sales, there will be high murder rates; particularly in the inner cities and suicide victims; including veterans.

It's sad, but not unexpected, that both parties are just playing to their bases right now. I had hoped that Obama would try and actually sit down with the Republicans (and conservative Democrats) in his second term, but that does not appear to be the case.

Personally, I'd rather go over the fiscal cliff than cut a deal that increases taxes (on anyone) without putting in place a real plan to get a handle on spending. The fiscal cliff may push us into another recession, but that's far better than where we will be after another 10 years of $1+ Trillion yearly deficits - which is where we are headed now.

Skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City-

OK boys and girls, here's what we want.

Folks, if we do those 10 simple things the deficit will be eliminated in less than a decade and we will have a budget surplus to leave for our children and grandchildren and we won't have to GUT Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid

Great list, Skip.

Throw in a pumpkin pie and whipped cream and it's a deal!!!

Salud

The Country must have a BIG spending stimulus outta this Grand deal. Gotta get people back to work, and gotta get interest rates up, so Banks will lend, instead of sitting on free money, or gaining 3 or 4 percent with virtually no risk. Don't think "fresh water" republicans have enough sense to understand though, and will do everything they can to keep this from happening. I actually hope no deal can be reached. Let the terms of sequestration come into play. It'll help the country, and deal a helluva blow to republicanism, which desperately needs knocking on It's ass. Remember; *"your spending is my income, and my spending is your income".

*Paul Krugman

@David Walker#1.3: You stated it well, and It damn well needed to be stated. Thanks

Fox Trostky

I agree with you 100%. I have said this before and have been pilloried for it here on the vine. I AM A GUN OWNER. I have owned lots of guns. My wife used to joke I should be invited to the next Geneva Disarmament Conference. I currently own ONE gun, a GLOCK in .40 Caliber. NOBODY NEEDS more than one gun unless they are some kind of a nut OR in Law Enforcement. When I worked for the Oklahoma County Sheriff's Office I carried mid-size GLOCK as a side arm and a sub-compact GLOCK carried in a concealed holster attached to my body armor. I also had a Remington Semi-Automatic 12-gauge Shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot and deer slugs. Since I am no longer in law enforcement I carry a GLOCK handgun.

Unlike most of the people who comment on this fine, I am law enforcement trained and qualified with my firearm. I don't need a safe full of guns to protect my home and family.

NOBODY NEEDS AN ASSAULT RIFLE (unless they are in law enforcement or the military, THAT's your well-regulated Militia)

NOBODY NEEDS A MAGAZINE THAT WILL HOLD MORE THAN 10 ROUNDS. Fella, if you can't get the job done with ten rounds, you don't need a gun, you need RUNNING SHOES.

Our gun laws should reflect these positions.

If it were up to me I would outlaw .357 Magnums, .44 Magnums, and teflon tipped ammunition. I would also outlaw small "hide-out" guns like .22 Caliber Pistols. NOBODY needs those unless they are planning to KILL PEOPLE up close and personal.

Hunting rifles with a bolt action. Fine.

Fowling pieces (Shotguns intended for bird hunting and skeet sport shooting). FINE.

Handguns of .380, .40 and .45 caliber as well as 9mm with ten round magazines. FINE

All the rest need to be restricted to law enforcement and the military. PERIOD.

That's all I have to say about that. Let the gun nut rant begin.

House Republicon leaders counteroffer is to cut into our health care and social security to help save the tax cuts for the 1%, this looks like last years counteroffer, this is Hogwash !!!!!!!!

Ken-848629

I really can't see Obama meeting in the middle on anything. It is likely to drag out til the tax cuts expire and he will blame the failure of compromise on everyone but himself. If he would quit campaigning and help government work as designed, we may get somewhere

Take off your faux red, white and blue blinders Then will you be able to see what is going on and who to blame. Congress' approval rating is slightly higher than a used car salesman at a low 10%.

President Obama knows what is best for American and he cares.The Republican Congress doesn't.

So who would you blame know that you see the criteria?

FoxTrotsky-

Now the tragedy in Kansas City is occupying the headlines, and Bob Costas seems to be catching hell for what must be the mildest response to needless gun violence on record.

Gun owners critisism is misguided.

I believe Bob Costas was paraphrasing a beat writer, but typically, they shoot the messenger.

They can't miss a opportunity to demonize the "liberal" media. I hope NBC and Costas stand strong for their rights, and don't issue an apology.

As always, gun owners go over the top with their reactions.

Just like they have a constitutional right to "bear arms", other Americans have a constitutional right to speak their minds.

America's over 230 years old and NO one has ever taken away their precious guns.

Salud

FoxTrotsky........

Some of these folks fantasize (aka delude themselves) about scenarios wherein they retreat to their "secret" bunkers and wage a guerrilla civil war against the U.S. government. They believe any attempt to limit firearms availability is a disguised preemptive strike to neutralize them.

Then, there are others (even more delusional) who believe any of several apocalyptic scenarios will occur which will lead to civil disorder. Then, they will have to defend themselves against roving bands (of folks not so different from themselves BTW). This crowd is about as sensible as were the many who built backyard underground bomb "shelters" in the 1950's and 1960's. We all now know that was about as effective as the "duck and cover" advice given to that era's school children.

It seems there is a fairly constant thread of (for lack of a better word) social insanity woven into the fabric of humanity. It manifests in different ways at various times. There were the witch burnings. Then, there was the "red menace". Now, the Muslims are intent on taking over the world. Of course, sometimes the threats are real. Consider the fascists. Ironically, the right wing is usually less worried about the real threats than the imagined ones. In fact, often they are actually allied to the real threats to human rights.

Delusions are a dime a dozen. But, there is one common denominator. This "thread" usually consists of folks on the political right at their time.

The people who conceive, foster, and achieve social progress are almost always liberals. They always will be. We must drag the frightened right wing of humanity, kicking and whining, into the fuller light of liberty. It is our fate and our duty. Their children will thank us. They never will.

Forrest Grump 2.0

Skip if I was a prostitute my business card might say "it's a business doing pleasure with you" or maybe Forrest's House of Fun - "where the customer always comes first"

You seem to have given this a lot of thought, Forrest!

Maybe I should launch kaybeesextoys...? ;)

The people who conceive, foster, and achieve social progress are almost always liberals.

Oh Really?

It was the GOP that ended slavery and fought and won the Civil Rights battle with Democrats.

But you knew that right?

Thanks Tomas, where do I mail the Pumpkin Pie?

Folks, gun-owers, per se are not bad. I'm one of them, see above. But the gun nuts who want multiple guns, high powered assault rifles, magazines holding more then ten rounds, etc etc etc are the problem. (I did enjoy Sarah Silverman's little riff on "Give Nana a Gun". Pretty funny and to the point.

The gun nuts are an aberration and THEY are the reason we have so much gun violence in this country.

We need gun control and regulation NOW!

Ha, I have the best home security system- bar none. Whenever we leave for vacation I lay in a sprawl out on the driveway and Mrs. Grump traces me with chalk, then we put up some yellow caution tape. Nobody has ever messed with my house while we are gone.

Folks, gun-owers, per se are not bad. I'm one of them, see above.

I didn't mean you, skip, with the Viagra comment. LOL

Ha, I have the best home security system- bar none.

That made me laugh out loud...very clever!

You know KayBee I have been called a f-cking union man, or one of those union F-ckers enough times that I have thought of organizing the working girls and then they could legimately be called union f-ckers.

Ian Emdee-

The people who conceive, foster, and achieve social progress are almost always liberals. They always will be. We must drag the frightened right wing of humanity, kicking and whining, into the fuller light of liberty. It is our fate and our duty. Their children will thank us. They never will.

Great column!!!

Salud

Ron: you DO understand that if we go over the cliff, your taxes will rise anyway! Or didn't FAUX news tell you that part of the cliff saga?

Beverly in Chicago

White Collar Auto

Nah, KB. The only victims here were the mother and the now orphaned child.

Collar

As long as the NRA continues to brain wash you and push gun sales, there will be high murder rates; particularly in the inner cities and suicide victims; including veterans.

Pretty sure kids in the inner cities aren't buying their guns from a gun store. OUTLAWING GUN SALES WILL DO NOTHING. Most gun violence is perpetrated by people who have obtained their guns ILLEGALLY. Its the same as the "war on drugs". People who want to get drugs still do and they are illegal.

If you want to seriously talk about this subject, then my suggestion is first to secure our borders. We do this by bringing ALL foreign based troops home, and using them and the resources saved by bringing them home.

If our borders were secure, we would feel safer. If we felt safer, people would feel less of a need to purchase guns. Guns are not the problem. People are the problem.

It is likely to drag out til the tax cuts expire and he will blame the failure of compromise on everyone but himself. If he would quit campaigning and help government work as designed, we may get somewhere.

As you say, all Obama has to do is NOTHING and the tax cuts will expire, sequestration will go into effect and the debt will be ~$2.5T less in 10 years. Polls already show that Republicans will get the blame.

So who is campaigning? If Republicans really want to do something for this country, then they should stop campaigning, sit their dead asses down at the negotiating table and work on it! So far, they haven't been willing to do that!

Here's what it comes down to: Obama has nothing to lose by doing nothing because Republicans set it up that way. Republicans have everything to lose by doing nothing because Republicans set it up that way. Whose move is it?

You got it exactly right EEngineer, and now republicans are crying that the president will not save them from themselves.

Forrest Grump 2.0

I went to buy a gun and they told me it would take at least three days, and I said "But I'm mad right now!"

But that's what gun shows are for! Fast and friendly service for all your anger resolution and score-settling needs. No questions asked.

Obama is offering nothing. In fact Obama and the Democrats have yet to say how much is enough? How much of anyone's money should the government be allowed to take? Until we know that number, when will enough be enough? Obama is offering to raise taxes by a 120 billion per year, cut some spending to the tune of 40 billion per year, and add more spending with another stimulus. Which all adds up to nothing. Obama simply does not care about the national debt or the annual deficits. Nothing he has put forth will put so much as a dent in either one. Obama will leave office having added more to our national debt then every previous president combined. Obama will leave office with our national debt well over 20 trillion. Obama will leave office a can still sitting in the road. But to his credit everything Obama says does fool all liberals, so maybe that is all he cares about.

No problem KB, you are correct. GUNS are a VIAGRA for a certain segment of the society. It's like the old coots you see driving those fancy, and expensive sports cars or the guys who drive those HUMONGOUS trucks, etc. Compensating? You bet.

But most gun owners are like me. They own one gun for home protection. It is a reasonable firearm and hopefully they have received some rudimentary training in it's proper care and feeding AND they keep it out of the reach of children and "cowboys". I don't have a problem with those folks owning guns.

What I have a problem with are the fat bastards that own 20 rifles, shotguns, assault weapons and multiple pistols. They don't NEED those guns for home protection or otherwise. And too often those guys get burglarized and all those guns get fed to the criminal element.

Of course our biggest problem isn't crooks with guns. It's nuts with guns like Jared Loughner and the Columbine boys.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS FAVOR GUN CONTROL. It's a vocal sub-minority lead by the NRA who are directly responsible for the tragedies in Arizona and Columbine and the theater in Colorado.

Everytime a nut goes on a rampage with a firearm the NRA should be named as a co-defendant.

Why no cuts in military spending?

Recovery is pulling the plug on the Teabaggers !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Rep/T.P. still want to cut the two honest entitlements that we have S.S.and Medical Insurance These National Programs,payed for by we,the workers , are one of the few honest entitlements that this country has. The majority ,if not the actual rest of them, are gifts that were for in time of need to vital industries but now are considered sacred cows by the receivers of them and our employees also known as Representatives .I don't know how we could do it but we the people should be entitled to set our employees wages,benefits and punishments for misconduct like every other employer. As for advice to our President ,I repeat what most of us consider,You were re-elected. You are in charge .They may suggest terms that you consider reasonable,otherwise ,let the fiscal cliff be leaped over.

So....If the GOP plan offered no specifics blah blah blah....Then how did the writer compare the 2 plans and sees a serious debt deal in the making..

Things that make you go...."hmmmmm".

For whatever reason, Jovan Belcher grabbed a handgun, murdered his girlfriend, then killed himself and orphaned their daughter

Another category should be added to the list of reasons to collapse a posting: "off-topic"

White Collar Auto......you said:

Quote......The people who conceive, foster, and achieve social progress are almost always liberals. Oh Really? It was the GOP that ended slavery and fought and won the Civil Rights battle with Democrats.......EndQuote

The reference was to "liberals". Abraham Lincoln was a liberal for his time. Likewise, the democrat party (in the middle of the last century) "self-deported" our racists and other right-wing extremists. Mostly, they became republicans owing to Nixon's "southern strategy" and other considerations.

Quote.....But you knew that right?......EndQuote

BTW---Many African-American homes (from the 1960's forward) had two photographs enshrined in prominent places: One was Martin Luther King. The other was John F. Kennedy. Both were liberal democrats. There were no pictures of Nixon, Ford, Reagan, even Eisenhower, or any other republican. These folks KNOW who fights for their rights. The same is now true for Hispanics, homosexuals, women, and others whose rights have been throttled by the traditional white fraternity which your republican party now succors. That you now attempt to bask in our light is a hallmark of our success. Earn it for yourselves mongers.

Here is an idea: any shortfall in funds for medicare should be made up out of the defense budget, if a nation can't even care for it's old and sick, then just what the hell is the military protecting.

Amen Forrest, amen.

Both sides have made their proposals now, so the next step is to stand in front of the camera and blame the other side.

You listed one of the biggest impediments to negotiating for the good of the country Tomas. Forbid any congress crook from grandstanding to the media, other than every fourth week when they are on another one of their all too frequent vacations. Grandstanding does little more than inflame the base and put off actual discussion and compromise. Hold the discussions behind closed doors, not standing behind a microphone. Do something FOR the country for once instead of always doing things TO the country.

You enumerated many great ideas @1.22 Skip. I would be happy to see them do even ONE of those items, let alone the entire commonsense items that you listed. Too bad that the majority of congress has their own set of priorities, that starts with their own pocket first, party ideology second, and any public benefit coming in dead last.

People better start demanding accountability from their own legislator soon, but from themselves even sooner. Giving a pass to your legislator, just because he is in your preferred party, does nothing except make the situation worse. Time for people to either grow up and accept responsibility for helping fix the country, or sit down, STFU, and quit obstructing for the sake of their own greed, hate and selfishness.

@Forrest Grump 2.0#1.66: Gwaddamn Forrest; that's the best intellectual honesty, based in obvious logic I've yet seen here, including anything I've ever said. Spot on Forrest!

Forrest,

You are on a roll today.

Keep these posts coming!!!!

Thank You Mac

Thank You Northstar

TO: AlexM-3929653 who wrote:

"...Maybe if you liberals could admit the mistakes of your party, you might be listened to a bit more seriously. But continue blaming the gop for everything and stating your party is completely innocent."

When are Republicans going to admit their mistakes is the question, and until Republicans do, we 98%ers won't take you seriously nor will we vote anymore Republicans in office.

As far as our party being completely innocent, well, it was George "Curveball" Bush that lied to our party and the rest of the world in order to get the necessary forces to go along with him to invade Iraq.

Bush had Condi "Mushroom Cloud" Rice on TV almost daily warning of an impending nuclear attack on the U.S. coming directly from Iraq when they knew, or should have known, that was all a lie. Bush just wanted to go into Iraqi for its oil.

Before Bush came along, we had blind trust for our presidents, but Bush taught us that you can't take "trust" for granted.

The GOP need to do some soul searching.

Seriously, we send billions of taxdollar sponsored aid (and influence money) all over the world, and then the GOP suggests we make cuts to our own social security/medicare programs for our own most vulnerable citizens as a way to continue to "help"???

We send billions of US tax dollars to the single country of ISRAEL, who has had a GOVERNMENT SPONSORED HEALTH CARE program for their citizens for decades, but we will ask our own impoverished seniors and disabled to pay a little more for healthcare while we cut their cost of living increases...as we refuse to take the necessary steps to rescue and save our own social security program? Israeli leaders continue to thumb their nose at the US and international law by illegally expanding Israeli settlements on Palestinian lands, knowing their aggression is destroying any prospect for peace negotiations...and thus insuring never-ending weapons funding from the US, while our social safety net for our own most vulnerable US citizens should be cut to "fix" our budget?

We can fund wars and weapons for other countries that denounce us, but we need to take money out of the pockets of our poorest citizens to keep sending it over seas?

We can allow corporations such as GE to escape paying taxes, but our seniors who spent their entire life paying taxes should give up a little more? Mitt Romney and other wealthy Americans can make millions annually, in investments and pay only 14% tax on those earnings, but we need to find ways to get more tax dollars from the struggling middle class, and cut spending on those living check to check and barely keeping food on their table on social security retirement income?

IT ALL SEEMS VERY BIZARRE TO ME.

It is very freaking bizarre KJR, thank you for noticing, please send your post to a Congressman.

Awesome comment, KJR!

One wanders to the left, another to the right. Both are equally in error, but, are seduced by different delusions. ~Horace

Let US get over the Fiscal Cliff already!

If the Demo-Republo-Bureau-RATS can't agree on their latest round of Tax America & Spend For Wall Street let US jump off of their Fiscal Cliff and let the Mandatory Tax Increases and Budget Cuts kick in!

Do any of you actually believe that any of these Corrupt Wall Street Political Minions in Washington DC work for US or are looking out for OUR best interests?

Well maybe there are a few Intentionally Delusional Demo-Republo-Bureau-RAT Corporate Supporters left out there who still cling to their Hopey Changey Nonsense, but I cannot believe any Normal American could or would still be so Naive in 2012 to believe any this Smoke & Mirrors Disinformation & Propaganda!

So let US hurry all of them "RATS" over the Cliff....The sooner the better!

Impeach Obama in 2012 and Imprison Clinton for Criminal Conspiracy to Cover Up the Murder of an American Ambassador, Intentionally Lying to the American People, Secret CIA Prisons and Supporting Al Qaeda in Benghazi-Gate and now in Syria!

The hardest thing to understand in the world is the income tax. ~ Albert Einstein

White collar auto-

Those Republicans who fought against slavery were different Republicans than those we see today. Were we facing the same issues now, I'm pretty sure Romney's party would not be supporting a cause that might remove the "property" of wealthy slaveowners. It would be right up there with "taxing the job creators".

But, But Tom!

This is how negotiations work, right?

That's what you folks have been spouting on here for three days, anyway.......

Maybe the Dems in the house can make some headway....

So true Tom. The GOP counter offer is the same worn out Willard Romney Paul Ryan plan that the voters rejected on election day. And yes, the bottom line is the top 2% are going start paying a fairer share of taxes.

As I said yesterday, John Boehner is the worst Speaker the House has ever had. He is not a leader and this is proven every time he opens his mouth. It's sad that he lets this tea bag group in the House boss him around.

Also, for the year 2013 the House is scheduled to be is session for 126 days. Wow, a great part time work schedule with a great salary and benefits for doing almost nothing.

It's time for Mr. Boehner to do the right thing and step aside as speaker.

It's time for Mr. Boehner to do the right thing and step aside as speaker.

Wait a second, Job, do we really want Eric Can'tnor to assume the position? lol

Job1,

Even as a part time Congress, Boehner cannot get anything done.

I say give them a part time salary and cut their benefits. Just like part time workers in the rest of the US.

White Collar Auto,

We've had four years to learn from the best.

So it's ok for obama to put forth an offer that isn't even based on this planet, but if the gop puts out (what you all consider) a laughable offer you jump all over it?

@!$%#ing hypocritical morons.

White Collar Auto

But, But Tom!

This is how negotiations work, right?

That's what you folks have been spouting on here for three days, anyway.

Collar,

That is not negotiating from the GOP/Tea Party . It's hostage taking in the form of compromise. Polls say 60% of Americans support letting the Bush-era tax cuts expire for the rich and those making over $250,000 a year.

What part of M-A-N-D-A-T-E do you and your cohorts not get. Let me break it down like a fraction for you. Compromise means your small minority must accept the larger denomination since you lost.

@!$%#ing hypocritical morons.

A little bitter that the President is pushing back, are we?

If you had the even slightest clue you would realize that the Republican Party is so cynical that they believe you and voters like you are fools because you believe their propaganda.

Cliff NOTES;

It's called a negotiation. We live in an era where the 24 hour news cycle demands that every bit of minutia is wrung for its earth shattering 'meaning", whereas politics is mostly about intermediate posturing in anticipation of compromise.

We will avert the "cliff", restore the pre 2001 tax rate on me and my ilk, cut medicare/medicaid spending by 600 billion dollars, provide for a 40 billion dollar "stimulus" (But we'll call it something else) close up SOME loopholes, create a BIPARTISAN committee on the future of SS, Medicare etc (Calling it "Securing our future" or something) and the two sides will stand on the podium and shake hands for the cameras...

The Bush tax cuts go away in their entirety if a deal isn't cut by January 1st. So you better get negotiating Republicans.

We wouldn't be here if Boehner hadn't walked away from the 4 trillion dollar deal anyway.

Sure, DF.

If that's the deal, we won't be any better off then we are now.

Forming more BIPARTISAN Committees isn't action it's obstruction. Think Simpson-Bowles.

In the end, no cuts will be made. We will continue to spend ourselves into oblivion.

It's a house of cards DF, just like the housing market.

And it's gonna collapse.

Funny how Republicans keep predicting gloom and doom for the economy and it keeps getting better and recovering anyway.

Republican "think" they know how to fix the economy when the truth is everything they do makes it worse.

California Tom....keep dreaming. The Obama margin of victory in the election does not represent a mandate for him to do anything he wants. GOP controls the house. If taxes are going to go up, they will go up on everyone UNLESS the Democrats want to identify and commit to REAL spending cuts. Until then, no deal.

Wait a second, Job, do we really want Eric Can'tnor to assume the position? lol

Well, yes we do, but not as Speaker of the House.

The Republicans will deal. If taxes go up on everyone, then the Republicans will be blamed, because of their refusal to raise taxes on their rich friends.

So, remember the Democrats control the Senate and the White House and the Republicans control a weakened House, that lost seats on this go around.

2014 is two years away!

Well, yes we do [want him to assume the position], but not as Speaker of the House.

Ahh, RedDevPS, that one had me spewing coffee onto my monitor! Got to go next door for a refill!

Dangerfield,

I hope your assessment in #2.10 is correct, but I'm inclined to agree with White Collar Auto in #2.12.

Let them go up on everyone! These are the tax rates we were all paying ten years ago, just look at the last decade as ten years of unwarranted rebates when we could have been paying down the debt.

Ok, so the economy is still weak, so a possible compromise would be to let them rise gradually back to the previous rates over the next four years.

Fine... Lets go off the cliff. the country has already stated that the republicans will take the blame and most likely get voted out in 2014...

I agree Norstar; if they are Part timers, then they have to find their own insurance too! Wow, that would be a wake up call!

I n response to Tom and White Collar, Bill Buckley said it best: Liberals don't mind if you have an opinion as long as it is the same as theirs.

Put another way:

“hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo”
Ambrose Bierce Quotes,

Looks like Bonehead got a head trauma at the 19th hole, this is not a counteroffer, it's more like a bad joke !!!!!!!!!

that one had me spewing coffee onto my monitor! Got to go next door for a refill!

Feisty loves to set those up for me .. she knows I can't resist the temptation.

Well WCA,

If not by committee by FIAT?

You have to start SOMEWHERE, and this is the somewhere we have. Any deal we make is better than the outcome of sequestration, and the only way to begin to address the changes that we need to make to SS and medicare/medicaid is via a bipartisan commission. Just because the two parties did a tap dance around the findings of the Simpson Bowles commission does not mean that their findings have been ignored, as is evidenced by the sudden embrace of mr. Bowles by the Speaker.

We are better off with any deal that avoids sequestration, as there is little doubt that the short term consequences of going off the figurative cliff will include a recession that will hurt everyone.

We don't need statesmen and women here, just pragmatists and realists. The Speaker is a realist, so is the President. Many here have a warped view of one of the two men in question, but both men are smarter and more capable of compromise than they are, and I for one am grateful for that.

Feisty loves to set those up for me .. she knows I can't resist the temptation.

Red,

I throw the fast-ball and you knock it out of the park! ☺

PS: I noticed how you were the only one to pick up on it! I can always count on you!

@ Reality Check Lotsa no's #2.22: Buckley is dead. Fact the damn fool died several years before he was actually buried. Man had a very accomplished tongue. Could speak multi syllable words with ease. Course, those words were most often tangled in traditional republican bullsh^t.

Chris -

If you don't think 300+ electoral votes to 206 is not a MANDATE, then you must live in another Universe. We won, You lost. Get over it and move on.

Remember that Mitt 'Scam Artist' Romney fudged his taxes so it looked like he was paying 13%. He didn't take all the deductions he was entitled to. Guess he didn't need the extra $225,000 he was entitled to. But I am sure he will file an amended return now and invest that money in the Cayman Islands or some other foreign country since this is where most of the trickle down is invested by the upper 2%. It DOES NOT go back into our economy or create more jobs here. As far as Mr Paul Numbersman Ryan goes he couldn't even do his own taxes right. Somehow he forgot to report 20% of his income( $60,000). If he can't budget his own money how in the hell is he going to budget Trilllions of dollars?

What Boehner was demanding in his ransom letter to Obama in exchange for his hostage (the US economy) is to take money from the pockets of the middle class in the form of tax hikes (end of the Obama payroll tax cuts) and benefit cuts (decrease in the cost of living allowance for Social Security and increase in Medicare age).

Boehner wants to use the money he's picked from the pockets of the middle class to pay for extending the tax cuts for his wealthy paymasters so they in turn can provide the GOP with the dirty money the GOP needs to run its attack ads during the next campaign.

And then Boehner will start a new hostage-taking crisis when the debt ceiling issue comes up again. What's adversely affecting the economy way more than any tax hikes are the bogus crises the GOP keeps manufacturing.

TO: AlexM-3929653 who wrote:

"So it's ok for obama to put forth an offer that isn't even based on this planet, but if the gop puts out (what you all consider) a laughable offer you jump all over it?..."

Because, Alex, the majority of the American People are NOT on the Republicans side, and Republicans DON'T have a majority support.

Republicans made their own decision to pander ONLY to the Top 2%, well that leaves 98% that disagree with the Republicans plan.

Just like Republicans made their feelings known about 47% of Americans.

American People just don't agree with Republicans on the issue of taxing the Top 2% and we're standing our ground.

But Republicans don't want to be more centrist, given they've pulled committee assignments and decided they lost the election because they aren't far enough to the right yet........LOL !!!

Apologies for the triple post. FR bubblegum gremlins hard at work. : /

Besides, Grover will have to pay more in taxes and he doesn't want too! He's going to stomp and stamp his feet until those "impure thoughts" are purged. The man can't even say the word TAXES!

High time these so called signers of his pledge were investigated as pledgeing allegieance to a "foreign government".

The Republicans description of ANY Democratic plan as "Laughable", "Childish" & "A Joke" only goes to show they are still involved in preschool politics. Lacking the ability to put "Country First" they choose to stay in the schoolyard and play, instead of coming in and doing the work that needs to be done.

hey, I have an idea--let's get the approval rating of Congress even lower.

Steeler Fan, thanks for the laugh! haha

Part of the problem for the GOP is that their 'base' is actually made up of several disparate groups with little in common in terms of their political goals or anything else.

Old rich white men want to hold on to their wealth and power.

Teabaggers want to shrink government down to the size of a teabag.

The evangelical Southern rednecks want to stop gay marriage and abortion.

The bigots want to limit the rights of minorities, immigrants and women.

Each one of those groups has a total focus on their own agenda...and it doesn't include doing what is best for the country as a whole.

Boehner will fail. No one has ever been successful at herding cats.

So the GOP is playing to its base

..a rapidly shrinking base, from the looks of the exit polls after the last election. And fighting to keep tax cuts for the wealthiest - talk about a clear path to minority status for a Party.

kaybee---I agree with you but please don't insult cats by comparing them to the GOP!! My cats are.....Democats!!

The GOP has been successful for years in getting the part of its base that isn't in the 1% to vote as the 1% wants them but that only delayed the issues they have with changing demographics. Not sure it will be enough in the future.

Steeler Fan, I'm sure they are cool kitties.

I'm hoping that Rupert Murdoch and his progaganda machine will be outed for the destructive force they are. If that happens, and if public education is improved to the point where Americans can learn to reason and think for themselves, the 1% won't have anyone of note left to brainwash.

Who has the Limbo stick to see how low they can go.......but I dare say if the stale pale male of the GNOP try to limbo they would never be able to get up......(except maybe Bob Dole with his cialis!)

Steeler Fan - Learning lessons? Not with this bunch at the helm:

"Team Romney's regret - immigration"

"In retrospect,” Mr. Rhoades said, ‘I believe that we could have probably just beaten Governor Perry with the Social Security hit.’”

Forgive me for ignoring the fiscal cliff again this morning - I'm just not in the mood for joining in all the reindeer games today - and instead waxing nostalgic for a moment about the good old days, i.e., the election. If we're playing Monday Morning Quarterback instead, it gets harder every day in hindsight to figure how the Romney campaign got as far as it did with this level of critical thinking. I mean, seriously guys - you're playing coulda/shoulda/woulda over RICK PERRY? You could have beaten Rick Perry - and Michele Bachmann and Newt Gingrich and Herman Cain and Ron Paul and Rick Santorum - with a wet noodle. Oh, wait - you did, and that's what ultimately cost you the election. All of those other clowns in the car had enough baggage to go along with their identities to fill a cargo plane, but at least they HAD an identity, and it was the same one day in and day out. But no, you went with the guy who was as much Play-Dough as he was Etch-a-Sketch - a shapeless, formless, sticky handful of nothing that some genius decided would be a winning idea because you could keep re-molding it every time somebody didn't like what you'd made from it the day before. Except that as I recall from my childhood, once you left it out too long, Play-Dough got stiff and boring and it crumbled and was pretty much useless.

But even more than that, you lost because you ever actually believed that Rick Perry and Michele Bachmann and Newt Gingrich and Herman Cain and Ron Paul and Rick Santorum were legitimate candidates who would ever be taken seriously enough by the majority of American voters to actually defeat President Obama. And you wasted month after precious month taking them seriously yourselves.

Some advice for next time? Forget the Etch-a-Sketch and the Play-Dough and go with something solid. I suggest Weebles - as in Weebles wobble, but they don't fall down. Or maybe the Pet Rock - if people would buy that, they'd buy anything. And at least it makes a good paperweight.

Meanwhile, have fun with the quarterbacking. Though I gotta tell you, at this rate, I'll make the big leagues long before you do.

I mean, seriously - Rick Perry?????

Jo Anne:

Thanks to you for some much- needed levity after my rather grim and outraged post above; you made me choke on my French toast, but it was well worth the auto- Heimlich I had to apply.

"Or maybe the Pet Rock - if people would buy that, they'd buy anything. And at least it makes a good paperweight." That is bloody priceless! Plus, it invites the inevitable comparison between the Greedy Obstructionist Party's recent crop and the sliding- scale intelligence of popular household pets.

(Side note to Kaybee and SteelerFan: My tomcat, WMD- that's "weapon of mouse destruction"- is definitely a Democat, but he's the FDR/LBJ kind- superb tactical instincts married to a pleasant personality.)

Kudoos, Jo Ann.

And my cat is an independent; never met a mouse she didn't enjoy eating, regardless of party affiliation.

I have a lovely Siamese cat who is 15 and turned grouchy since I got the kitten---a Siberian forest cat (hypoallergenic). Fox---I don't think either one would know what to do with a mouse!

JoAnne---sounds like Mitt ought to sue his advisors for malpractice. Forget the fact that they admit that Mitt would adopt any position he had to to appeal to that base, they didn't realize the level of absurdity of their opponents. The fact that they took those people seriously is amazing.

Fox - You're welcome, though to paraphrase a popular bumper sticker, if we're not outraged, we're not paying attention.

Gilboagirl and Steeler Fan, my cats wouldn't know what to do with a mouse either - Violet is too busy being beautiful and posing for pictures, Riley has a severe case of Feline Attention Deficit Disorder, and the stray cat that I have NOT been feeding or adopting for two years now finally caught her first bird the other day after sitting under the bird feeder every day wondering why they don't show up when she's there. She played with it a couple of times and then it flew away. I suspect that when the mice finally attack, I'm pretty much on my own.....

Well, the plan I saw called for increased taxes now, cuts later... not sure what plan you saw...?

False equivalence by the media is a something the GOP counts on in these battles. After all, the media has supported their claim to be deficit hawks and job creators despite all evidence to the contrary.

Well, Lil Michelle, like most sycophants here, he saw what he WANTED to see, not the reality of what is.

And you folks voted for Sarah Palin in 2008. We have to remember that the opinions of the far right zealots/cult, of our President Obama are not facts, but are just opinions and views of people who hate because their cult leaders have told them so.

I wouldn't wipe my azz with Obama's offer

Something tells me, you don't bother to wipe your ass...

I certainly wouldn't offer to shake hands with him.

its-----

Your the joke, not our President.

no kidding! I'm much more interested in my own family. And, besides, I feel sad whenever I see old pictures of Diana, as a young mother. Which they never fail to show on every story about Duchess Kate.

Ann,

Please name one thing specifically that Republicans offered to cut as far as spending in their counteroffer.

It was right next to the specific cuts that the WH proposed in the article...........oh...........whoops, never mind.

Thank you for proving my point.

Ann,

The republicans put the Romney/ Ryan plan on the table and that plan was rejected by the voters. So, let's remember the President won and he will call the shots.

let's remember the President won and he will call the shots.

Obama does not call the shots. The house holds the purse strings, not the dictator in the oval office.

We will see about that.

The house holds the purse strings

Do they now? Odd, if they held the purse strings, why isn't the Ryan budget the law of the land?

Some of the republican plan:

eliminate income tax deductions for interest on mortgages; cap income tax deductions for contributions, cut Medicare reimbursements to physicians, eliminate student loan programs...... get the picture! That's where their savings come from, all the while increasing the defense budget, maintaining subsidies for oil and gas companies, and making the Bush tax cuts permanent.

Does that sound fair and balanced to you!

"How badly does John Boehner wish to remain Speaker of the House?"

For the good of the Nation that should end after the 2014 elections. Wow, the House plans on being in session for 126 days in 2013.

Wow, the House plans on being in session for 126 days in 2013.

Looks like there are still some post offices to be renamed.

The real question is how long Bernanke can artifically supress interest rates. If rates were to rise closer to the long term averages the cost of the US debt would destroy the budget and start the death spiral many fear. The horrible world economy has helped the US as it's a safe haven for the cash but when the buyers disappear look out.

Michael,

A perfect example of the anit-historical nature of the GOPTP .

They cannot even acknowledge their own history of their 112 Congress.

But the rest of us know the historical facts of the last two years.

The Republican Party is nothing but a cover for professional scam artists. Remeber Romney fudging his taxes so it looked like he paid 13%. Remember Paul 'the numbersman' Ryan couldn't even do his own taxes right. Forgot to report $60,000 in income and he can handle a trillion dollar budget? 70% of our deficit has been caused by the Bush tax cuts and two unnecessary wars. The Republicans need to stop sabotaging our economy. Maybe they are the real terrorists we need to be concerned about!

Of course they will the elitest snobs that control our government, money supply and economic developement need to tank to Stock Market, selling short to legally skim the wealth from the nation.

When the last time you could sell short on your 401K?

Newsflash never.

Watch how much money will be invested in shorts and put calls in the week before the crisis. If the amount reaches 5 to 7 times the average volume the crisis will not be averted until after the December 31rst.....then they will magically agree about ten days after the first.

It's a legalized scam the take middle america's worth.

Take your 401K have it converted to a cash account and wait till it's over then buy back in...at a lower price....Sweet!

You have been at my side for some of the most important moments of the last 4 years. President Obama

"We are standing with the people of Libya" - Hillary Clinton

Thanks for the video dangerfield. Those are quite moving words from Tony Blair, Henry Kissinger, John McCain...

Extraordinary woman.

"I'll say it again, you've been one of the best Secretaries of State in American history," President Obama said in a taped message. "Finally, Hillary, a lot has been said about our relationship, and here's what I know. You haven't just been one of my closest partners, you've become a great friend."

"I'm so grateful for your grace, your humor, your friendship," Obama added..."You have represented the very best of America."

The best is yet to come.

That's just a MSNBC liberal talking point obviously you need to change news outlets...or try to think for yourself. never take a media point of view weigh out what really is happening. Both parties are doing the same thing if you truly look at it. Try to find a new candidate that is truly for the people and not party or government. Government is the enemy of free people..Less government a free-er people.

Hey meetooboo, how about you find a different source instead of Faux News. President Obama has clearly stated his desire to raise tax on the wealthy. That is very clear to me. Now I want the Republicans to be clear on exactly what cuts and loopholes they are talking about. It is time for the Republicans to put up or shut up. This is not about a liberal or conservative position. This is about both sides being clear on what they want.

Ret I don't watch Faux news I say raise taxes on everyone and those who don't pay taxes make them inclusive. We all enjoy the freedoms so we all must pay into it. Why take 88 Billion dollars hell lets go for 2 trillion in new taxes pay off the debt. Then after the debt is paid pay for free education and health care for every one except the top 10%. The interest alone that we pay on the debt will pay for both programs. Why borrow money from our children and grand children. You just don't get it the dollar will collapse and you and everyone else will go down in flames......

But I what you fail to understand is that every responsible citizen gets it. Instead of jockeying for reelection both sides need to be clear on what they are purposing. Everyone knows that along with raising taxes there must be big cuts made. I just want the Republicans to be clear on what cuts and loopholes they are talking about. Is this so hard that they cannot point out exactly which ones they want to cut or plug?

Meetooboo, you've squarely nailed the single biggest and most dangerous political fallacy in American life:

"Government is the enemy of free people..Less government a free-er people." Unfortunately, this is not the case and it never has been; it is a lie that today is being pushed hard by the right-wing servants of corporate rule.

MeeToo, have you never been taught the truism that "Nature abhors a vacuum"? This is no less true of political power. In every single area of our lives, where government power is reduced or removed, corporate power steps in and assumes that power, and usually much more besides, for it own.

This is the vital difference that you and the other Teabagger crowd are missing completely: Govenment is not some hostile, alien occupying force, marching into your state in jackboots to steal your grain and draft your sons. Government is US- government is a tool devised by FREE men and women, a tool with which we build our roads, educate our children, and maintain the peace in our part of the world. Your government, "devising their just powers from the consent of the governed"*, is answerable to YOU, and to such of your neighbours and countrymen as you may be able to convince to support your lawful and peaceful aims.

Contrast that, if you will, with corporate power- that same power that has taken over the management of many cities and counties throughout our nation; that is now, at greatly escalated cost and ever- declining efficiency, managing our schools and our prisons (and increasingly blurring the distinctions between them!), feeding, housing and clothing our fighting forces; supplying such necessities of life as electricity, water and heating fuel; and using the stupendous profits from these endeavours- remember, it's your money that's paying them twice- to attack public employees who, unmindful of the profit motive, have for generations striven to provide our communities with reliable, superior services.

The bottom line is this: Corporate power exists for only one reason, to enrich the owners of that corporation. So what?, I hear you say. That's what free enterprise is all about! No, what I'm talking about is properly called 'corporate statism'. If you want more detail, look up two guys named Mussolini and Hitler. They formed a partnership in Europe that delivered huge short-term profits to their investors, but ultimately ruined them.

*You might want to look up where that line came from- the guys who wrote it were big believers in people forming governments to provide certain services for the population at large.

"These old long term congress un-leaders are just to hateful for one another, get rid of them all."

Now THAT is something I can agree with, both Democrats and Republicans should have put up all new leadership that don't have so much bad blood between them. That includes McConnell, Reid, Boehner and Pelosi.

But that will never happen, as they are too concerned with giving out appointments by seniority.

That's why I say let it go and in a few years we pick up the pieces go back to a gold standard let everyone find their own path. The only ones that need services is the elderly, disabled and widowed children.....The rest can get a job or starve...Those who are on the government dole will starve soon anyways when the dollar collaps.

mee: hard to do when there are no jobs to be found. So I guess they must all starve! Nice. So compasionate!