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Subscribe to RSSWell, here we are on Dec. 3, and the two sides seem to be farther apart than ever.
President Obama visited a toy factory on Friday, but he’s not playing around. His offer, delivered through Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, was a bone thrown to a Democratic base that has been urging him to get tough with Republicans ever since the first stimulus. The offer itself really isn’t a straight-faced proposal. Remember, he told the Des Moines Register before the election that the ratio of revenue to cuts he would seek would be $1 to $2.50. This thing they sent up Thursday claims credit for the money saved in ending the wars, which would not be spent anyway, AND the cuts that were already signed into law the last time we went through this exercise in 2011.
Clearly, the president feels as though he has the political upper hand. At this point, there seems little chance that he doesn’t insist on most -- if not all -- of the tax hike on the wealthy. He caved two years ago. But that's not likely this time around, fresh off the election.
The only risk he runs is showing too much leg to Republicans on his willingness to make changes to entitlements. Then he loses Democrats. So last week was a display intended for Democrats on the Hill, too, not just Republicans.
In the long run it may help. House Speaker John Boehner can move the $1.6 trillion number back down in talks with the White House and look like he’s actually fought.
I know a lot of smart people who have been involved -- and are involved now -- with these things who have said all along that the period leading up to mid-December is going to be all about just the kind of chest thumping and pre-positioning we are seeing now. The behind-the-scenes consensus is that Obama shows some give on either the income level ($250,000) or the top rate (39.6%), and they are promised to one and other in their commitment to tax and entitlement reform sometime next summer.
For what it’s worth, I am in the camp that says they go over the cliff. I don’t see how Boehner puts a bill on the floor that raises rates on anyone. The party would explode, which might be what Obama has in mind.
In Boehner’s mind, it might be better to come back after Jan. 1 and vote to cut them back to where they were, with the top earners' rates going up.
Call it the inertia scenario. So instead of voting to allow rates to rise on the wealthy before the end of the year, let the rates rise, and then come back in January for a vote on cutting rates -- something Republicans might more likely support.
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There are going to be alot of bruised chests come the middle of this month! Don't we just love all the "political theater" that went on over the weekend? We had all the star players on the Sunday talk shows. Even Grover got in on the action, as disgusting and repugnant as he is. I am honestly tired of all the hype that guy gets. Republicans should be ashamed of themselves for putting Grover before America.
I'm fine with the Republican party exploding. Their fuse has been lit for quite a long time. I hope when the smoke clears, ol' Grover Norquist is nowhere to be found.
That ANY 'news' organization would give a minute of creedence to Grover is beyond me.
He represents the very divisiveness they want to pin on President Obama. His unyielding "my way or the highway" attitude/pledge should be classified as treason and he should be tried accordingly.
But I guess I am a radical when it comes to his ILK!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and there the Republican bozos sit, on the 10 yard line of their own goal - and DEMAND that Democrats come to them! Regardless of the election which as they say is the TRUE opinion of the American People, right?
The only Poll that supposedly mattered was the one taken on November 6th. Hey, Repubs, get off your lazy asses and move to the center LEFT of the frickin' field - where the American People told you they are on this topic!
Clara, I so agree.
I saw that Grover was on MTP yesterday; a man who is not an elected official or part of the Obama cabinet. He is a lobbyist with a despicable past.
How an entire party allowed itself to be held hostage to one man and his ideas which don't even make sense and have been proven not to work is beyond me. I think anyone who ever signed an "oath" to Grover Norquist should be impeached. Your oath should be to the American people. These folks value their jobs more than their duty and don't deserve to be in Congress.
Grover got his no tax increase ever ideal when he was a 12 year old. That is the maturity level of the republicans who put the rich and their tax cuts before the health of the American economy.
Childish ideals are all the republicans have got, well that and their hate for the rest of us who aren't beholding to childish ideals like the rest of the republicans.
When did making women into second class citizens and taking away our rights to vote become freedom?
Ran some math ... If the US adopted a single payer system as in the top ten countries in the world of which the US is not one of them, the annual savings in healthcare cost would amount to +/- 1 trillion dollars.
Thu US spends 17.4% of GDP on healthcare. other nations average out to 11%.
Healthcare in America is the best. I'm against single payer system, in fact I'm against changing anything about our healthcare.
How do those top ten countries compare to US as far as doctor care?
I hear alot of people come to the US for medical conditions, even people that have free health care in their country.
BCWC - we can't implement that solution. The GOPTP/Capitalists would have no place to exercise their greed on the backs of the unfortunate.
We rank around 17th in quality of care. Birth deaths are the highest among all developed countries. Also, more Americans travel abroad for healthcare vs. those traveling here.
Lil Michelle
There are wait list for elective surgery ... for the most part people going to the US are wealthy and don't like standing in line. BTW, there is no such animal as free healthcare.
www.commonwealthfund.org/News/News-Releases/2010/Jun/US-Ranks-Last-Among-Seven-Countries.aspx
Thanks BCWC - I meant 7th, not 17th.
Republicans have a whole lot a reasons to be frustrated because they basically lost everything this past election, except for their majority in the House, which they're almost certain to lose in the next coming mid-terms.
But there is no excuse for Republicans holding our Economic Recovery hostage, other than perhaps their personal need to hold on to some tiny bit of power, once all other power has been taken from them.
The American People have spoken, and the majority at that. Still Republicans refuse to listen, as usual.
We will go over the "cliff", or curb. So what? The economy thrived in the Clinton years.
The spending cuts are the better part of the bargain. It won't take long for Repubs to want to negotiate back their beloved defense spending.
Meanwhile, Grover can still claim that no Repub voted for a tax increase.
But for how long??? Dems won't allow more spending without revenue increases. So how will they restore defense spending without raising taxes????? And Obama won't let them raise revenue on the middle class.
This is going to be interesting.
Do not cave, Mr. President! Continue to do what you know is best for this country!
The GOP can go to H-E-double hockeysticks.
That is not correct, not based on our health outcomes:
Remove your head from the sand.
You're in the minority then, and fortunately there are plenty of intelligent, knowledgeable people who disagree with you. Our healthcare system is bankrupting our country.
Based on personal experience, I can state that many Americans travel overseas for healthcare where the cost is far lower, and where there are American-educated doctors who are more concerned with patient care than with making a lot of money, unlike many American doctors.
I agree. Sounds like the Weeper has his you know whats caught in a vice.
Well, it seems they've been rejected for failing the balance test... Perhaps they should pick someone besides Boehner to try to walk that line. He was recently kicked off the house basketball team for blowing another 3 pointer... And he was their only black player!
Good natured ribbing aside, why are they still trying to rally their base? When asked for an honest long-term solution to offer on a vexing issue in today's environment... They fashion it into a dog whistle and blow as hard as they can. It's like ordering up an Idiot Dog with "sour Kraut" and extra cognitive dissonance
FR: His offer, delivered through Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, was a bone thrown to a Democratic base......The offer itself really isn’t a straight-faced proposal
That, in a nutshell, is the root cause of the problem.
Boehner has now offered to give all the increases Obama wants in exchange for $3 in cuts per dollar.
He should insist the House pass this bill immediately and send it to the Senate and blame everything on the democrats that block it.
We do after all have a spending problem.
Robert Reich with his eight steps to negotiating the fiscal cliff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMuA8I2M5l0
do not need eight steps....
only one step required....
STOP SPENDING !!!!
That's about as ignorant as it gets. Comments like this are from the drones who understand nothing about what the idea of America means. Sorry to break it to you but no one owes you anything. Our nation is in distress because temporary politicians from the left wanted to permanently enslave a segment of society so they would always have a base with their hand out waiting on their govt allowance which was confiscated from the labor of another whose life on this planet is finite. A representative who goes to Congress to demand more of our lifetime should do so with caution.
The govt confiscates roughly 2.3 trillion dollars per year from the American people and spends about 3.5 trillion. Thus confiscating our children and grandchildren's future because of the takers. The large majority of them by far support the jackass Party and think that because they support the jackasses they are immune from the enslavement. Most of them are already enslaved and may or may not realize it. Look at those numbers. Their jackass Party wants people's retirements to help close the gap and continue their policies of enslavement. They do not seek compromise. They seek collapse. They will gleefully allow the "fiscal cliff" and everyone's taxes will go up. And they will tax the drones right along with the "rich".
Then, of course, blame it on Grover Norquist and the Republicans because they know the drones will eat it up. Boehner's deal is better than what the tyrant-in-chief proposed. What's the problem?
Old fat guy:
Stop spending?
On the military? Then how do we ensure our national security?
On infrastructure? Then how do we transport goods and people?
On education? Then how do we teach our children what they need to be competitive in the global economy?
etc.
Your solution is simplistic and short-sighted. What do you do at home when money is tight? Do you stop buying food?
Well yes we have gone hungry but it has been a long time.
A budget as big as the federal budget has a lot of fat in it. Just remembered, there has not been a budget in three years. Just spend and spend and spend.
Federal education dollars are fairly well wasted judging by the uneducated products of our education system.
Our military and defense of our borders is the first responsibility of our supposedly limited federal government, yet it is the first thing libbies want to cut.
Ever thought about how many high paying union (democrat votes) work in defense plants?
I look at the fat mans ideas and pose the question; if I were to cross a toll bridge, would I rather pay a toll to the fat old
mantroll or pay the toll to the government. I choose government every time. You see, the fat old man has one motive only, to stuff his face with food. I would never feel comfortable feeding the fat trolls face vs. a government run bridge dedicated to safety. I would rather know that when crossing that toll bridge, upkeep ensures I will make it from end to end with the focus on repairs, maintenance, and upgrades.With the fat old troll bridge, the money would be spent on a feeding frenzy for the wife, kids, and self, then a lavish vacation, perhaps a new car, and a new McMansion, and underpaid toll takers. Of course, some money would be thrown at attorneys to ensure that any lawsuit for the inevitable collapse could be fought in court without any damages for poor maintenance. That would be one treacherous journey for a small stretch of highway.
I'll take the government maintained system anytime over the fat old man-troll maintained system. Chances are, the fat old man never really worked a day in his life. Most likely, he sued the builder of the bridge in a Wall Street scam and ended up owning it, then never spent a day actually running the bridge. On the other hand, the government built the bridge, hires the employees that maintain the bridge, and ensures a safe and operational crossing. What is terrifying is when the fat old man-troll learns to enter into the federal employee system as a worker. But that is a subject for another day and another time.
Red...
Every bridge that has ever collapsed in America was built by the government with union labor.
Your comments are laced with class warfare jealousy....being jealous of what I do with my money that I have earned providing products and services that people want, need and pay for. It is none of your business.
Except for time in the military, I have never been and I promise will never become a government employee
In answer to the doctor/medical cost controversy here.On 60 minutes on Sunday 12/2/ 12. Some doctors were stating their legitimate complaints that their hospital corp. is giving them a hard time and even terminating some of them for not increasing the amount of bed usage in their hospital corporation. I consider that in my experience that has happened to both me and my wife in some instances. If our government, like most modern countries , was their paymasters that would not happen,or should not happen if we had a true fraud tax and evasion arm of government and Medicare would not be no.1 in costs on this planet.
old fat guy the bridge thing might be correct but were failures design, faulty work or low-grade material's, maybe it was simply their life expectancy was out or was it failure due to lack of funding for upkeep. All except labor makes your analogy mute and doubt it was workmanship.
WCA so the presidents proposal was as boehner says more revenue than he wanted 2011 sounds like they should have taken his 2011 proposal, the least he could do was make a viable counter offer. Another post you said you were a middle of road independent your post sure sound republican to me.
instead of voting to allow rates to rise on the wealthy before the end of the year, let the rates rise, and then come back in January for a vote on cutting rates -- something Republicans might more likely support.
Oh Lord, I think you're right. Nothing like playing chicken with the recovering economy - it's the debt ceiling fiasco all over again. Trust the Republicans to gamble with our credit rating/economy, all for political gamesmanship.
Yeah, Amy, but I don't think the Republicans want to take the chance. They will have some cards to play, but their big thing is keeping their very tiny 1% base as happy as a clam. They've got Grover making ominous and threatening phone calls to anyone who dares to even whisper that they are open to looking at higher tax rates for the wealthiest in this country.
We all know that the rich didn't give all those millions and millions in campaign donations to the republicans for nothing. The rich expected tax cuts and the republicans are fighting for them just like they promised. Republicans aren't fighting for America, they are fighting for the rich and only the rich and of course future campaign donations.
If this is how the republicans act when they lose. Think of how they would have treated regular Americans if they had won?
Yep. They couldn't deliver the WH to the wealthy 1%ers, so this is their consolation prize.
I hope that president Obama will see Boehner turn blue in the face before he is even willing to budge an inch. And the president's inch better result in Boehner coming over by another foot or two at least. Then we can get serious.
Off topic: Didn't Hillary look so pretty at Sunday night's gala honoring the arts?
"instead of voting to allow rates to rise on the wealthy before the end of the year, let the rates rise, and then come back in January for a vote on cutting rates -- something Republicans might more likely support."
I don't see it that way, they would be taking a hell of a chance the house can not pass a law all by themselves, and the senate is not controlled by republicans, plus the senate has to win statewide elections and can not count on gerrymandering to insure their seats as some house members do. Not to mention the fact that the president can't pass a law but he can veto one. The game of chicken as I see it will not be so much between dems and repubs, the automatic triggers are not a big problem for the dems and are a huge problem for the repubs, the game of chicken will be more between senate repubs and house repubs, McConnell hung Boehner out to dry over the house repubs debt ceiling fiasco, and he will again before this is over. Ha if I was Obama I would sit back and watch the fun, this will be their Waterloo not his. If they want Obama to lead them he could call them and tell them "you know taxes are going up for the top 2% right fellas".
Isn't it ironic that when Romney went to the White House for lunch, he was served chicken and turkey? LOL
OMG, kaybee, I hadn't thought of it in that context! Maybe a little "inside" jab to the ribs?
Amy they did it already and caused the credit rating downgrade for the first time ever remember.
Asked earlier and will ask again. Can someone please explain the 'pain' felt by conservatives within the latest budget proposal put forth by the GOP? Exactly what 'skin' is in the game for Republicans concerning their own numbers?
"Putting revenue on the table..."...is that the equivalent of Republican skin? That's governing?
We pay you folks $150-220K in base salary to say things like that?
If your chief complaint of the President is his 'my way or the highway' approach to negotiating, how exactly has the GOP bitten the bullet on this proposal? How is this not 'my way or the highway'?
Allen, they aren't going to feel any pain. They're irresponsible and their priorities haven't changed - their intent is to let us all carry the burden while they continue to live the good life. Even though the president's plan will not take a damn thing away from them as far as their way of life is.
It is us who have to feel the pain. Not them.
John Boehner said the other day that it doesn't matter - either the rich or the rest of us pay the bill - it makes no difference to him. He actually said that.
Allen, I think the only "pain" they are going to feel is that of Grover Norquist. They've committed to him regarding taxes and not many have enough sense to realize they neutered themselves when they signed his pledge.
Are you serious?? Closing loopholes and capping deductions. Who's that gonna effect?? the 2%. Raising tax rates. Who's that gonna effect?? The 2%. Who is responsible for 46% of taxes currently paid to the government every year?? The 2%. Get your head out of the clouds. The White House just wants to keep taking money from the wealthy to pay for their defunct entitlement programs. Obama has added to the debt every years he's been in office and his new plan is an extension of the old one!!! The dems proposal had more overall spending in it than revenue!! What more skin do you want from the Reps?? Quit spending money!!
Defunct entitlement programs? Last I checked I'm still paying into those programs but funny, I don't seem to have a deduction on my pay stub for stupid wars looking for WMDs, Phil. Where oh where is that money coming from?
Lol! And you've changed the whole subject. The GOP can't start a war on it's own, and the only entitlement program you pay into is Social Security, of which the GOP is not that concerned with.
TO: Phil Broz who wrote:
No, the GOP can't start a war on it's own, which is why they LIED us into war based on fake intelligence that someone named "Curveball" purportedly supplied to George W. Bush.
You'd think with a name like "Curveball" that Bush would have suspected something wasn't right, but his want to go into Iraq in the first place outweighed anything and everything else.
And, by the way, we also pay into Medicare.
I think "Curveball" is Cheney.
This is off topic, -
Bob Costas speaking out against guns last night. Thank you Mr. Costas.
We have become such a violent society. Please United States Government, do something.
Government do something? They have. Respect for human life is gone. Class warfare, willy nilly abortions, handouts to those whose whole lives have been on the welfare roll, degradation of traditional marriage. Need I go on? Degradation of society as we knew it. "It is all about me and what I want and the way I think things should be." But, in the liberal mind, that is progress and the progressive way to do things. The left always spews the fact that "times have changed and we need to change with it." Well you get what you wish for. Society and the destruction of simple, moral, and right thinking has been moved out of the way for the sake of political correctness, "compassion", and everybody getting along without the consequences involved in doing the tough things and sticking to the way things should be.
Talk to the Hand:
Need I go on? Degradation of society as we knew it.
No, please don't go on.......ranting. America has changed its thinking and its views. We are no longer a society that wishes to be stuck in an old fashioned world. It is painfully obvious that you and your party do. What part of the whys of losing this election do you not get?
Oh, and "willy nilly abortions"? Really? Your comment right there speaks to what you don't know about abortions and who gets them and why.
Ah, so you think we should return to slavery, voting only by white-male-land owners, etc., etc, etc. I'll take the progressive view thanks. While I like my white male land owner friends, I also like my female, black, hispanic, asian, gay friends equally, and I believe we all deserve a place at the dinner table.
Hi, Pat -
It's not really as far off topic as some might think. As I posted on an earlier thread, Costas' comments weren't just about gun control, but also about how we continually talk about tragedies like the Jovan Belcher one "putting things in perspective" - at least until the next distraction comes along - AND, about how we let ourselves be baited into "embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it". Sure sounds like that applies to this fiscal cliff idiocy to me.
For those who might have missed it, here's Bob Costas' full commentary:
"Well, you know that it was coming. In the aftermath of the nearly unfathomable events in Kansas City, that most mindless of sports clichés was heard yet again: Something like this really puts it all in perspective.
Well, if so, that sort of perspective has a very short shelf life since we will inevitably hear about the perspective we have supposedly again regained the next time ugly reality intrudes upon our games. Please, those who need tragedies to continually recalibrate their sense of proportion about sports would seem to have little hope of ever truly achieving perspective.
You want some actual perspective on this? Well, a bit of it comes from a Kansas City based-writer, Jason Whitlock, with whom I do not always agree but who today said it so well today that we may as well as quote or paraphrase from the end of his article.
‘Our current gun culture,' Whitlock wrote, '... ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy, and that more convenience-store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenaged boys bloody and dead. ...
'Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it.'
In the coming days, Jovan Belcher's actions and their possible connections to football will be analyzed. Who knows? But here, wrote Jason Whitlock is what I believe. If Jovan Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Kasandra Perkins would both be alive today."
I'm sure the sports talk radio shows today were inundated with arguments over gun control in itself and the gaps in our mental health system and whether Costas should or shouldn't have raised the issue at halftime. Anyone who knows me knows which side I come down on in each case.
I just wish we didn't constantly have to take sides on everything.
I would disagree with you that government is the answer, though I think they should be at least part of it. I would also disagree with Talk to the Hand that it has anything to do with "handouts" or "degradation of traditional marriage" or "willy-nilly abortions".
As Bob Costas said, it's about us - all of us - embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it.
And I'll never understand why we do.
What would you expect from someone who thinks missionary style is boinking a missionary.
JoAnne, I missed your earlier post on this subject. Great comments.
I'm just glad Bob Costas "was allowed" to give his perspective on this very sad commentary on our society. We usually only talk about this when someone famous gets killed, but it's a societal problem and we as a society, together with our government and media, need to address it.
If not, we all know this will just continue happening. We can't keep looking the other way.
It's a national tragedy.
When the economy is down and people are desperate they do desperate things. There is an old saying that idle hands make the devil's work. Put people to work and alot of that stuff Costas was talking about will go away or diminish significantly. With an improved economy comes jobs to keep people busy and out of trouble and for those who do decide to make trouble there will be enough cops around to catch them because cities will have funds enough to pay for police protection adequate to cover the entire city. Fire departments won't need to double up or close firehouses and so can respond faster to emergencies.
Yes, guns don't kill, people kill. Unfortunately guns are what those people use as a weapon to commit their crime. So, while we must support the 2nd Amendment we must do it as with all things, in moderation. Too far in either direction will cause trouble.
With a society already stressed out because of the economy radio hate mongers put ideas into the heads of the morally and mentally weak causing them to commit crimes that they would not commit if they had not listened to the talking hate mongers and were occupied with a job.
Money, itself, is not the root of evil but the love of money, in other words, greed, is. We are seeing what happens when the greedy have their way. Now we have to smack them down and take back our country before the greedy get it all and leave us nothing. The 2012 election was a step in the right direction in taking back our country from the greedy but we still have a way to go. Let's see what happens over the next couple of years.
Pat, forgot to ask - did you send me a "Happy Thanksgiving" e-mail? I just got back from being on vacation since the day before and was going to reply, but with all the security issues we've had, wasn't sure if it was really you or not. Let me know, 'cause I'd love to chat more. And I love your new avatar.
P.S. - 22 days and counting till "Les Mis" - I think I need an Advent calendar!
Yes JoAnne, that was me. Feel free to contact me any time.
I do not believe the government needs to do anything about gun control more than it does, if he did not have a gun ,then it would have been a knife or ball bat you cannot control ones emotions it takes common sense and there are many in America that have very little these days. If any one here ever had to work or live in some of the crime areas I have you would see the need for self protection can proudly say have made enough to move from that now but still believe in personal protection.
I voted for Romney but I have to give Obama some credit - he wants to raise taxes on himself and his friends but not on the rest of us.
Yes. That is one difference between the Democrats and the Republicans.
Obama knows it will not hurt them, it will us.
Steve Benen:
So, what's the pitch? Under this proposal, Republicans would keep all of the Bush-era tax rates, but accept $800 billion in new revenue. How? Through "through pro-growth tax reform that closes special-interest loopholes and deductions while lowering rates."
From there, the GOP leaders want to cut $600 billion from Medicare and Medicaid; cut $300 billion from mandatory programs; cut $200 billion by changing the consumer price index; and then cut another $300 billion in further discretionary spending.
To call this a "counteroffer" is to strip the word of meaning. Under the GOP plan, Republicans get the more than $1 trillion in spending cuts Obama already gave them; Republicans get the entitlement cuts they want; Republicans get hundreds of billions of dollars in additional cuts to programs they haven't identified; and Republicans get all of the Bush-era tax rates they've prioritized.
This isn't a "counteroffer"; it's a Christmas wish list written by kids without access to calculator.
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/12/03/15649952-dont-call-it-a-counteroffer?lite
It was the story of the weekend.
A searing three-part investigative report by Louise Story at The New York Times describing in detail the gigantic rip-off that corporations across America extract from state, county and municipal governments when they start shopping for a place to land, expand or just stick around. "Rip-off," is not a word that Story or her editors chose, but that's the reality behind her exposé of all those tax breaks, land deals, infrastructure upgrades and assorted other arrangements desperate governments offer to lure companies to their turf or keep them in town. The first two parts are here and here. Part 3 comes Tuesday.
The explicit or implicit pledge on the part of the companies that get these incentives is to create more local jobs and higher tax revenue for the local economy. Everybody benefits, see? That may indeed happen. But it's not unusual for a company to hang around for a while and then just leave. And when the company does leave, on the hook are the citizens who assessed themselves higher sales, property and special district taxes to cover bond payments used to cover these incentives. Those levies can last for decades.
As Story tells it, with an emphasis on General Motors in Part 1, over the years, companies have dragged states and localities into a "high-stakes bazaar" in which they compete with each other to offer the biggest corporate bonanza. Just one more example of how private enterprises enhance their profits by socializing their expenses and, all too frequently, leaving those desperate communities deeply indebted for years. The pressure amounts to blackmail.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/03/1166748/-Corporations-get-billions-from-cities-and-states-but-they-often-don-t-keep-their-end-of-the-bargain
Some of the Aircraft and Space manufacturers have been doing this for years,notable The Boeing Co.
1.6 trillion by letting bush tax cuts expire on rich vs 800 billion in closing loopholes------Hello any one home, it needs to be both.
Who the @!$%# is GROVER NORQUIST??????????????? The Republicans don't owe him anything. GROVER might OWN the REPUBLICANS. They took a PLEDGE to the AMERICAN PEOPLE who PAY their SALARIES not this plutocratic communist Grover the azzhole Norquist. GROVER is a NOBODY. He is a whinny liitle twerp who sold his soul to the Koch Brothers and the other rich miscreant Sheldon Adelson. Grover's real Boss will probably ask him what happened to his soul when he tries to get into the Pearly Gates with the laughing Mitch the hyena Bitch McConnell right behind him.
The Bush Tax Credits were never paid for - it was a gimme for free and were never intended to be permanent. I'm for everyone being grown-ups and taking the tax hit and moving on. Let's end all this "look what you can get for nothing" stuff.
I think the Republicans just relaized that they can only win small, focused elections in consituancies that they control via gerrymandering. They cannot win a national election. If their goal is to control congress, then this is OK; if their goal is to control the Whitehouse, then the HAVE to be more inclusive and get rid of the pandering to the top 2%
Pablo, it doesn't say much about their leadership when they give more respect to Grover than they do to the
American people or the President of the United States.
Pat - I believe it says absolutely EVERYTHING about their leadership - that they allow themselves to be led around by their noses by a piece of trash like Norquist!
SSanity: A piece of trash he is. Which doesn't explain why on earth he was allowed to dictate policy. Talk about a national tragedy.
Pat - I keep hoping there is a way to get him on charges of treason. I wish the DOJ would investigate him and expose the money he takes in from foreign governments. Then he works to influence our politics? I'm sure there is a ground for a charge of treason for him and for everyone who has signed his pledge!
SeekingSanity: Norquist is a pig, but I feel he has not committed treason. He is a private citizen, not an elected holder of public office, a member of our military or entrusted with any public office. Now signing that oath by a member of congress that is a different story.
Why is it that the people who already have far more wealth than they could ever realistically hope to spend in their lifetime are the most loathe to part with a farthing or a minim for the health of the society that made their wealth possible in the first place?
Why are the Republicans getting away with continuing to pretend that self- funding programs like Social Security and Medicare are adding to the deficit, and must be slashed? Most of the world's greatest creative minds are Progressives- how has it come to pass that we are still incapable of smashing this contemptible LIE into the dust once and for all?
How does it happen that so many people are smart enough to get an education, work at a decent job, buy a home, manage a household budget and raise sober, law-abiding kids, but are still stupid enough to believe that if we take enough away from those who have little or none, those who have much will be spared the "unfair" and "job- killing" burden of additional taxation? (Hint: Which party is waging all-out war on teacher's unions, trying to lower their pay while increasing their workload, and has sworn to eliminate the Department of Education?)
Giving a tax break to the productive classes results in increased economic activity, spelled J-O-B-S. Tax breaks for the idle rich, parasitic non-productive class results in more money being taken out of circulation and hidden away in other countries (see Romney, Mitt). Why is there such deeply ingrained resistance to raising the rates on the top earners from those who are unlikely to ever reach that bracket themselves?
How much longer can a society last that demands sacrifices be made by those who have nothing to give, while devoutly shielding the rich, foolish, and criminally inclined from ever having to be held to account for the suffering and damage that their crimes invariably cause?
When pastors, ministers, and priests are telling their 'flocks' how to vote and which laws are deserving of support, it would seem that the 'wall of separation' between Church and State now lies in ruins; should we not demand that they pay appropriate taxes on their staggering wealth?
(Stand by for some RWNJ to flip out and start calling me names, attacking my patriotism, and deriding my intelligence, all while not answering any of the questions above. So predictable...)
Hey, Fox -
Speaking of people who "already have far more wealth than they could ever realistically hope to spend in their lifetime" and the "the rich, foolish, and criminally inclined", a friend who's a total movie buff sent me this article last week about this documentary on Donald Trump and his attempts to evict people from their farms in Scotland so he could build (you guessed it) a golf course:
http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.com/rochester/movie-review-youve-been-trumped/Content?oid=2151596
The only part I would disagree with is the "kind of" in the last line.
Ah, and here's an update I just stumbled across:
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/03/scottish_farmer_trumps_trump/
Enjoy!
Why would the republicans stop pandering to the rich? All those millions and millions in tax cut dollar donations from the rich to the republicans were used to tell the American people lies.
The republicans were sure they would win with all their lies and they could protect their campaign donors.
Being the lies didn't work, the republicans are back at voter suppression as their way to win.
If America goes over the fiscal cliff, the Republican obstructionist party of NO is to blame.
Rhonda, what new contributions will YOU make next year in order to decrease the deficit and fund the spending that goes on and on? Or does that burden belong to someone other than you?
nmrepublican - I believe any of us that are employed are going to have to pay more. It's the right thing to do. But to cut the assistance to those who have been hurt the most by the recession is just wrong - in every way.
Any group that could vote to do that is lacking in the basic decency most humans have.
nmrepublican, I don't presume to answer for Rhonda, but a couple of months ago, I flew a trial balloon of sorts on this page. The results were very instructive and revealing, if hardly astounding.
It ocurred to me that if those of us who are engaged in meaningful activity- those I like to call the productive class- were to have our taxes raised by 1%, that would raise enough revenue to pay for some very substantial expenditures on infrastructure, which would result in many, many skilled tradespeople being hired, who would keep their newfound income in circulation by spending it, which would generate additional jobs, which would create still more wealth, and so on, in a self-reinforcing cycle of increasing prosperity that is so simple, so obvious, and so well proven by actual test, that even the lickspittle slaves of Pope Grover cannot deny its effectiveness- although, as we've seen, they ALL continue to do just that.
All that for just an additional 1% of my gross income! Prorated over fifty-two weeks, I'd hardly miss it- but wait! With all of the new economic activity going on, there'll be more need for skilled tradesmen, which will exert upwards pressure on wages, which means that the additional 1% that I'm volunteering to give will be coming out of a much larger paycheck- which means it'll be a larger contribution, so more revenue means shrinking deficits and debt- another self- perpetuating cycle of growing wealth, including more for the non- productive master class!
Now, many of my fellow Lefties were downright enthusiastic about the idea- fancy giving our government appropriate funding to do things that improve everybody's lives, across the entire economic spectrum, rather than the 'magic of the free market', which is only good at lowering value while raising prices in order to maximize profit, and the public interest be damned. Conservatives, on the other hand, were aghast at the notion of making a voluntary contribution for the good of their communities; many replied, " I can spend my money better than the government can!" (Heavy, dude. When you gonna get started building us a new freeway?)
What you call individualism, I call selfishness. What you call Socialism, I call citizens working together for the good of all. If this world were actually run on pure Conservative principles, it would be an ungovernable Hell in mere months. The ideas and beliefs of the Right are bankrupted, discredited, and thoroughly useless. It's time for the Empire of Greed to be stricken from the pages of history once and for all, and for a new kind of government with an underpinning of morality to take its place.
Speaker Boehner has responded to the White House request that he submit his party's proposal to deal with the impending implementation of the Simpson-Bowles plan. He could have saved the House of Representatives letterhead by simply forwarding a link to the now defunct Romney campaign website.
As the old gop,eats their younger tea baggers,when the midterms come they all go
A tea baggers remorse if you will,,,,
Going off the cliff,is what is really going to napoen.
In the new year it will be done
Let the GOP Explode! Let's all go over the "Fiscal Cliff" together. This drives the GOP into irrelevancy,
Norquist back under his rock, and hands both Houses of Congress back to the Democrats in 2014. The President is taking his plan to EVERYONE'S boss -- us -- and he is winning. F0X News cannot stand IT, AND JUST MAYBE ---"Fearless Leader" of the Ditto-heads will finally go into lockjaw!!
If we don't take care of the least of us, we BECOME the least of us!
The REPUKES are EGOMANIACS!!!! They JUST are TAR BRAINS that do not SEE when the MAJORITY of AMERICANS who are the MAJORITY who VOTED to INCREASE THE RICH TAXES and start chomping at all these BLOATED FAT WADS on CAPITAL HILL and all their SICKO CRONIES FAT WADS. !!!
Throw them ALL OUT the DOUBLE DOORS, onto the STREETS.
So the part where the GOP House actually votes on the middle class tax cuts they claim to support happens when?
Quit preening in front of the cameras and get to work!