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Subscribe to RSSPer the Sunday-show rhetoric, both sides remain far apart in budget negotiations… But remember: The real negotiations haven’t even started yet… Democrats and Republicans now find themselves in completely opposite places from 2011… Pelosi threatens to introduce already passed Senate-bill that extends Bush tax cuts for only household income below $250,000… Obama holds bilateral with Bulgaria PM at 2:55 pm ET… Wasserman Schultz to remain DNC chair… Checking in on Mitt Romney… And the latest VA GOV developments.
As the White House and Republican leaders enter the final months of negotiations over the fiscal cliff, both sides remain very far apart. The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd reports.
*** Far apart: Less than a month before the Bush-era tax cuts are set to expire and significant spending reductions are supposed to go into effect, the Obama White House and congressional Republicans remain far apart in their negotiations. “We're nowhere, period. We're nowhere,” House Speaker John Boehner said on FOX yesterday. He also blasted the budget offer that the White House gave to Republicans on Thursday, which included $1.6 trillion in increased taxes and revenues, $400 to $600 billion in spending cuts, and the essential end of Congress’ control over the debt limit. “I was flabbergasted… I've just never seen anything like it. You know, we've got seven weeks between Election Day and the end of the year. And three of those weeks have been wasted with this nonsense.”
Larry Downing / Reuters
President Barack Obama hosts a bipartisan meeting with Congressional leaders in the Roosevelt Room of White House to discuss the economy, in this file photo from Nov. 16, 2012.
*** Boehner vs. Geithner on the Sunday shows: Meanwhile, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner was adamant that the Bush tax cuts for income above $250,000 would have to expire. “The only thing standing in the way of [a deal] would be a refusal by Republicans to accept that rates have to go up on the wealthiest Americans,” he said on “Meet the Press.” And he added that if Republicans want entitlement changes, they’ll have to propose them. “What we can't do is try to figure out what they need. They have to tell us. And then, we have to take a look at it, and see if we think it makes sense for the American people.” But as bad as things sounded on the shows yesterday, let’s not panic yet. This isn’t all-hands-on-deck time. After all, President Obama was out golfing with Bill Clinton and speaking at the Kennedy Center yesterday. As we’ve told you before, the real negotiations probably won’t start until mid-December.
*** 2011 vs. 2012: Role reversal: What is striking, however, is that Democrats and Republicans now find themselves in COMPLETELY OPPOSITE places than they were in 2011. A year ago, Republicans were the ones – after their victory in the midterms – who had the political winds at their back and felt like they had the mandate. Now it’s the Democrats. In 2011, Republicans were the ones with more detailed plans about spending cuts (think the Ryan plan). Now it’s the White House with a more detailed plan. And back then, Republicans had the leverage with the debt ceiling. But now Democrats are the ones with the leverage, because of the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. As the Washington Post’s Greg Sargent writes, “[I]f we do nothing, Democrats will get their way. All the tax cuts will expire, and Dems can come back and push a new tax cut just for the middle class -- a circumstance that will only increase the Dems' leverage further.”
*** Pelosi threatens to introduce already-passed Senate bill: And given that leverage, don’t overlook this gambit: House Minority Leader says that Democrats might try to schedule a vote, via a discharge petition, on the already-passed Senate legislation that would extend the Bush-era tax cuts only for household income below $250,000, CNN writes. “‘If Speaker Boehner refuses to schedule this widely-supported bill for a vote, Democrats will introduce a discharge petition to automatically bring to the floor the Senate-passed middle class tax cuts,’ Pelosi said in a statement. Under a ‘discharge petition,’ a bill can be brought to the floor without going through a committee or without approval of House leadership. The bill would need an absolute majority - 218 votes - to pass.”
*** Obama’s day: At 2:55 pm ET, President Obama hosts a bilateral with Bulgaria PM Boyko Borissov. And then about an hour later, at 4:00 pm, he delivers remarks at the Nunn-Lugar Cooperative Threat Reduction symposium at the National Defense University.
*** Wasserman Schultz to remain as DNC chair: NBC has confirmed from two Democratic officials that President Obama will ask the Democratic National Committee to ratify Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) to remain as DNC chair when the party next meets in January. Politico first reported the news this morning.
*** Checking in on Romney: Over the weekend, the Washington Post ran a piece checking in on Mitt Romney a little less than a month after his presidential loss. “Four weeks after losing a presidential election he was convinced he would win, Romney’s rapid retreat into seclusion has been marked by repressed emotions, second-guessing and, perhaps for the first time in the overachiever’s adult life, sustained boredom, according to interviews with more than a dozen of Romney’s closest friends and advisers.” More: “Unlike the last two unsuccessful nominees, Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and John F. Kerry (D-Mass.), Romney had no job waiting for him. His public platform fell out from under him on election night.”
*** The latest VA GOV developments: On Sunday, President Obama golfed with Bill Clinton -- but also with Virginia gubernatorial candidate Terry McAuliffe (D) and U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk. But could McAuliffe get a primary challenge from former Rep. Tom Perriello. As the Washington Post reported on Friday, “Former congressman Tom Perriello, currently at the liberal think tank Center for American Progress, has quietly approached prominent Democrats in recent weeks to let them know that he is at least considering a run, according to party operatives in Virginia. Perriello himself has not responded to several requests from The Washington Post for comment.” With Cuccinelli as the all but assured GOP nominee, the penalty for a primary on the Democratic side would SEEM to be less.
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Obama doesn't want to compromise on this, and is willing to take us over the cliff. Nothing he has proposed will produce much, if any, revenue, or lower the debt, and most likely, will lead us into part two of the recession
As opposed to the Republicans in Congress who are calling for doing nothing and going over the fiscal cliff?
You really should get your facts straight.
They will do whatever they need to Kent, when Obama gets serious and stops playing games. The American people are well aware of who is at fault here.
Rex, look in the mirror to see who's at fault. It's the tea baggers and the nut jobs from the right wing. Not Obama, as you are spouting.
dont make the deal until spending is cut at least 2xs the amount taxes are raised. Also the ttaxes must be rtaised across the board evenly to all not just cherry picking the ones you think can afford it. if it is to be fair then everyones taxes must go up the same % not just some of the people. after all we are all supposed to be treated equally in the usa right???
I was ready to agree with you on the spending cuts, then you went crazy and lost all credibility.
John Blamer knows he is going to lose this fight.
This is another "Please proceed, Governor" moment!
I agree.
Right now the Republicans are on the defensive and if nothing gets done it will be perceived as being their fault for not being willing to compromise.
It doesn't surprise me that Obama made over the top demands early on. It's political posturing to show that he has the upper hand and that Republicans are going to have give a lot more than they take on this one.
One comment I would make though. The name calling is really uncalled for in an open discourse. It costs you credibility.
Obama made an offer. Now it is the republican's turn to make an offer and we shall see where it goes. For sure tax rates go up for the top 2% but no big deal they will still be rich and drive their Bentleys. That is not enough money. We still need to eliminate deductions or cap them and cut spending. Reforming military, defense, and medicare can eliminate a couple of trillion over 10 years. It is really not that big of a job to trim 4 trillion in 10 years. It will be easier if the economy comes back strong, mainly housing. Most of the views on this vine are over the top.
The trouble is markinbecker, is that the left doesn't want any reform of any entitlement program, not one penny's worth. Pelosi and Reid have said as much.
And the Republicans refuse to cut spending on military, even when the Pentagon says that they don't want more tanks. So what your point exactly Rex?
Each side has its sacred cows and whose gets slaughtered is what is really up for discussion here.
I'm all for reforming Medicare, which the Dems have said that they are willing to work on. They refuse to touch Social Security however. One thing that I have always felt that needed to be removed from Medicare, since I worked as a Medicare contractor, is that stupid rule that if you speak Spanish you get paid 10% more than someone else doing the same job. It doesn't matter if you speak 50 languages, unless one of them is Spanish you get paid less. Oh and you are only allowed to speak to beneficiaries in Spanish and English even if the language that they speak is your native language.
Needless to say I am one of those in favor of making English the official language, as it would save the country billions of dollars a year in translators and premium pay.
Your both wrong.
Still don't know how the Dems figure a near tie in the election creates a mandate. You would think if Obama was such a popular president he would have won in a landslide. Sad to think that can't get tax deduction reform, reduced spending, AND control over entitlements into the budget. But listening to the forums, everybody wants what good for them and not whats good for the country.
Some think he did, Eric. Among them all those millionaires and billionaires who dumped a trainload of money into the Romney campaign (and certain down ballot races) only to find that "money can't buy happiness." Obama got 52% of the vote and Romney around 49%. Three points in the world of presidential politics is huge. In fact, winning by any margin is huge. Republicans have yet to accept the fact that they lost, thinking that that the same tactics that cost them an election will now be their salvation. Good luck with all that. When public sentiment is stacked against you, the margin of victory becomes meaningless.
By near tie I'm assuming you are referring to the popular vote, which was expected to go to Romney but he lost it as well. Because he got crushed on the electorial college.
Personally, I think you are one of those Republicans still sorely in denial and don't understand why you lost.
Jim and Kent, it's become too obvious to deny that there's a very large and extremely well- funded 'last ditch' contingent within the Republican Party; this consists of their base, those people who between them have never once produced a completely original idea, nor ever read a single book since high school (if then!), yet who hold themselves to be unusually well- informed and uniquely qualified to advance policy and critique the policies advanced by others.
These economic prodigies base their astonishing self- regard on the fact that they have shrewdly cut the "liberal media" out of their daily information feed altogether, with the self-evident exception of NBC First Read. These (mostly) men have figured out that the only place to get real, unfiltered and unbiased coverage of the truly relevant issues of the day is from those giants of honesty: Limbaugh, Hannity, Kelly, O'Reilly, Rove... yes, armed with straight talk and true factoids, these bold, fearless defenders of the Constitution* will stand firm against any Communistic plot to restore our once-proud nation to prosperity and full employment!
God help the nation... we're just going to have to wait until all of these idiots die of natural causes, or in 'hunting accidents'.
*Except for those parts about equal rights and protection for Wimmen, Negroes and Meskins- those parts they're plannin' to scrap about five minutes after the Declaration of Secession.
America can continue to print more money and borrow from China. Why change now?
Probably most American do not care if the American economy continues to suffer. Consider that 47% do not pay taxes so they do not care. Then within the ranks of the 53% who do pay taxes, there are probably a significant number of people carrying their too much personal debt. do you think they care?
So how exactly does that hook taste?
Once again by that 47% you are referring to senior citizens who are living on retirement benefits and soldiers serving overseas. Try learning who you are bashing before doing so. It just makes you look like and idiot.
As for borrowing from China the vast majority of the Debt is held by Americans. Of foreign investors that hold American debt, China does rank amongst the top. Maybe you'd like to bash the Germans while you are at it.
Obviously your juvenile name calling displays your uncontrollable outburst of showing a defunct intellect. In so far as the 47% who pay nothing.....allot of those seniors and military pay taxes on dividends and interest. The 47% are the not so hard working Americans with Section 8 housing, benefits cards and free cell phones. What hook is in your mouth?
Oh let me give you an English 101 lessen its "an", not "and".
Isn't anyone just plain sicck and tired of these elected a-holes? They remind me of two children playing in a sandbox. Neither wants to let the other child play with "his" toy" or in "his" area of the box.
Yes sir, just keep re-electing these scumbags and then expect a different outcome. DUMB! That goes for BOTH sides.
Well, it sounds like Boehner just wants to cry all the way to putting the lowest earners into a tail spin without enough money to live on. Well, Boner, who will pay all the bills of the country then? I am sure the top 2% will step up at that time, yeah right!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message to Boehner: man up to your responsibilities to ALL of the citizens of this country, not just the 2%.
QUIT WHINING AND GET SOMETHING DONE!!!!!!!!!! (FOR A REFRESHING CHANGE!!!) Quit being the laughing stock of the country for a change of pace!!
The Democrates have already said that the best thing that can happen is the cliff. They already have their sights set on it & want to go over. I say we do it. America voted for the cliff when they re-elected Obama. Buckle up, put your helmet on & hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride. Obama proposed something that he knew would never float. Cut spending in one area & double spending in another. Then he wants complete control over the debt ceiling by cutting out Congress? Not no but HELL NO.
Hi Ho, Hi Ho, its off the cliff we go. It's all your fault Odumbo.
The exact problem in washington is the atthepat attitude..."you lost"...how stupid...the only thing worse than a poor loser is a poor winner...people with that attitude won't work with the other side and that causes gridlock. Everyone has the right to an opinion...the people who don't like Obamas' actions didn't like his actions before the election...it's not a sore loser syndrome...the same people saying "we won" are the same people who bitched about Bush constantly but for some reason (maybe because of the usual liberal double standard) it was o.k. back then. Just because Obama got elected doesn't mean what he is doing is right...it wouldn't be the first time the voters screwed up...
You mean like the Republicans did in 2010? Oh the horror to have their own tactics used against them.
Obama won and should negotiate from a position of strength. I got tired of the Republicans holding the country hostage for the last two years and cheer slapping them down as hard as possible at this point.
This is obammy's economy and debt. How dare any of you lefties blame anyone but your president for over 5 trillion in debt over the past 4 years. borrowed and printed money for that matter. When you do get your revenge on the able, willing and those who have worked hard for a living what will that get you, generations of tax bondage for future generations to come? Why don't you obammy backers pony up and pay for someone else's 2 year unemployment benefits, welfare, cell phone and healthcare?
Romney was wrong about the 47%. It is more like 51%. Obammy has been very successful at making dependents of the majority of the electorate.
Commie fools!
Everyone who brings up the 47% prove that they are idiots. You don't even understand who the 47% Romney was talking are.
It is soldiers serving overseas in a combat zone who pay no taxes on combat pay, it is senior citizens living on retirement benefits, and yes it also includes those who work but do not make enough money that they get a full refund during tax season. However, something you should stop to consider is that all that money that they pay into income taxes goes into a bank and draws interest. The IRS does not pay anyone back that interest so in a way it could be said that these people do actually pay taxes because the government got to keep that interest.
51% like I said. Zero income taxes. More takers than makers...
Spin it any way you want to buddy. You live in an entitlement society and you know it.
No Kent you and the left just repeat what Obama's media told you to say,there are way too many on the Obama gravy train,and don't pay their "fair share"He was not talking about disabled,vets,senior's ect he was speaking of the lazy the hand out folks.Just because you on the left repeat a lie does not make it true,the video in Benghazi should have taught you guys a lesson on truthfulness,a foreign word to Obama and his followers,they can only operate on lies,out of context comments are a favorite of the left.
See you guys latter, I'm going to Hawaii. Hope hope you can fix this sh*t, as I can not deal with this BS. I need to catch a bus now and then to the AF1. Buy, suckers, I'll send pictures.
What else is new. I always wanted to experience "cliff diving"...I guess soon I will get my wish.
It's very simple. You do what the Banker-owned Federal Reserve rulers tell you to do or they crash the economy, like the 30's, and set up a major war. The government? What do they have to do with anything except carry out the Federal Reserve agenda?
Obama won 2/3 of the vote. Let me help the constitutionally challenged Tea baggers. Electors vote for president, and you voted for electors (assuming you voted, Rove was mad that a lot of you didn't show up)
Let me contrast this to 2000, where Gore won but the supreme court overruled Florida to install W. At that time, you all considered that a mandate. Then in 2004, W barely won Ohio, barely won the election and again you called that a mandate. By your definition, Obama would be classified as a landslide win and an absolute mandate.
Allow me to also offer a bit of history. The Tea party was a rejection of a preferred tax rate for the East India company, giving them an unfair market advantage. We just had another tea party rejecting preferred tax status for people like Romney. The progressives are the real patriots, the republicons are the anti-American rebels that want to leave the union.
Obama won 51% of the vote, numbskull.
Yesterday Norquist ( confused with Noriega) stood beside Boehner in spirit to make sure he held the lie..
So a man not even elected to represent anyone is directing the Republicans decision making...to take away you tax relief.
And we cannot vote him out of office.?????
Is This democracy..or a dictatorship??
Norquist and anyone who signed his pledge is a traitor to this country in my opinion. The Republicans have placed a promise to one man before their obligation to the American people and they should be severely punished for it.
If the Republicans are willing to include additional revenue for next year, Obama needs to include spending cuts for next year. Simple solution.
Just goes to show ya the GOP truly does represent the interests of the middle class. The GOP these days is a bought and paid for Political Action Committee for the preverbial 2%.
ejkelley1
They have already said revenue is on the table. Please tell us how cutting spending can be bought & paid for by an outside group?
The deficit has increased by 6 TRILLION under the Dims. This last "offer" by the Dims and Pres are asking congress to give up their power and allow the Pres to take his first step towards becomming a dictator. The controlling Dims are still allowing the payroll tax to slide which takes millions/billions from social security. The rich pay 70% of the taxes already. How much more would be fair? Why not let EVERYBODY put on their little boy pants and PAY THEIR TAXES! This nation is becoming a nation of bums. Tighten the belts and lets get this country back on it's feet. Stop wasting public money on more stimulis for the Dims union buddies...
Republicans let obama go over the cliff and blame him for the tax increases on the masses. We are tired of lies, cover-ups etc. Put the full blame on this administration and all it's bravo sierra.
That is a stupid comment. The article even comments that it would be a lot easier for the Dems to let the Bush taxes expire then bring legislation for new tax breaks for the middle class to the table than to convince the Republicans to just let the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy to expire by themselves.
The Dems have the upper hand and they know it. Which as I said earlier is why they made over the top demands to start with. They will start giving a little on those demands and find out how much that they can actually get away with. Sounds like any normal business negotiation to me.
Go over the cliff, don't increase the debt limit. Make Washington shut down all non-essentials. When the world doesn't end and people see that we don't need gov't as much as gov't needs us, things will change.
Ok, clearly you don't know what you are talking about. Eventually the debt limit will become an issue again. But that is not what the fiscal cliff is about. Though it was created by an agreement to raise the limit last year. It was caused by both sides agreeing that they would raise the debt ceiling and create a super committee to find a way to pay for it later. Surprise the super committee was completely partisan and failed miserably and the onerous penalties that they put in place to try to try and bring both sides to the negotiating table are now set to kick in.
I'm with boehner, This needs to be fixed one way or the other. Why can't Obama agree to cut the social welfare and encourage the lazy to get out and find a job? Why can't boehner tell the rich to pay more. Its simple. Both of these groups are holding thier parties hostage. Therfore you have a stalemate. We need to cut the spending till it hurts and slash the loop holes for the wealthy. Only then will there be light at the end of the tunnel.
That's easy, Ismail. Obama's constituency is 90% takers.
Thats why the spending should be cut so much that its painful to them. Belive me when it gets uncomfortable enough they will start looking for jobs and paying taxes.
Obama is starting to negotiate like a Republican. Who said he was an amateur? He learned from the best.
We are at a crossroad. The Congressional schedule surmises it's members intent and irresponsible regard to work towards a resolution. Honestly it is not the President's responsibility to do a budget but he's taking it on and it's being laughed at? How arrogant and disillusioned representative have grown to be. Boehner is Speaker of the House not the "Leader" of this country. His tenure will soon pass and President's Obama will be slightly more and he is molding the government as the office is designed to function as. I guess its hard for many to come to come to terms with it. Politics - not only in America! We are embarking towards dangerous turmoil on the Global front.
Yeah, there has been NO BUDGET since Barry took office and when he did present a proposal not even one Democrat voted for it. Get a clue.
As president, he submits a budget to Congress to consider. This what he is supposed to do.
Just last week we were the middle class, with all this wonderful mess going on now we come in just below the poverty level. Thanks to all those hard working $175,000.00 a year senators and congress persons. China must be loving this as it strings out.
Don't leave out the hard working President in the equation.
The GOP has already passed many bills in the House, Obama's own commissions were repeatedly ignored, Obama has never passed a budget. Obama should be in GITMO, and water-boarded daily. Anyone who votes with Obama is a terrorist.
Can I watch?