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Subscribe to RSSPer the Sunday-show rhetoric, both sides remain far apart in budget negotiations… But remember: The real negotiations haven’t even started yet… Democrats and Republicans now find themselves in completely opposite places from 2011… Pelosi threatens to introduce already passed Senate-bill that extends Bush tax cuts for only household income below $250,000… Obama holds bilateral with Bulgaria PM at 2:55 pm ET… Wasserman Schultz to remain DNC chair… Checking in on Mitt Romney… And the latest VA GOV developments.
As the White House and Republican leaders enter the final months of negotiations over the fiscal cliff, both sides remain very far apart. The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd reports.
*** Far apart: Less than a month before the Bush-era tax cuts are set to expire and significant spending reductions are supposed to go into effect, the Obama White House and congressional Republicans remain far apart in their negotiations. “We're nowhere, period. We're nowhere,” House Speaker John Boehner said on FOX yesterday. He also blasted the budget offer that the White House gave to Republicans on Thursday, which included $1.6 trillion in increased taxes and revenues, $400 to $600 billion in spending cuts, and the essential end of Congress’ control over the debt limit. “I was flabbergasted… I've just never seen anything like it. You know, we've got seven weeks between Election Day and the end of the year. And three of those weeks have been wasted with this nonsense.”
Larry Downing / Reuters
President Barack Obama hosts a bipartisan meeting with Congressional leaders in the Roosevelt Room of White House to discuss the economy, in this file photo from Nov. 16, 2012.
*** Boehner vs. Geithner on the Sunday shows: Meanwhile, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner was adamant that the Bush tax cuts for income above $250,000 would have to expire. “The only thing standing in the way of [a deal] would be a refusal by Republicans to accept that rates have to go up on the wealthiest Americans,” he said on “Meet the Press.” And he added that if Republicans want entitlement changes, they’ll have to propose them. “What we can't do is try to figure out what they need. They have to tell us. And then, we have to take a look at it, and see if we think it makes sense for the American people.” But as bad as things sounded on the shows yesterday, let’s not panic yet. This isn’t all-hands-on-deck time. After all, President Obama was out golfing with Bill Clinton and speaking at the Kennedy Center yesterday. As we’ve told you before, the real negotiations probably won’t start until mid-December.
*** 2011 vs. 2012: Role reversal: What is striking, however, is that Democrats and Republicans now find themselves in COMPLETELY OPPOSITE places than they were in 2011. A year ago, Republicans were the ones – after their victory in the midterms – who had the political winds at their back and felt like they had the mandate. Now it’s the Democrats. In 2011, Republicans were the ones with more detailed plans about spending cuts (think the Ryan plan). Now it’s the White House with a more detailed plan. And back then, Republicans had the leverage with the debt ceiling. But now Democrats are the ones with the leverage, because of the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. As the Washington Post’s Greg Sargent writes, “[I]f we do nothing, Democrats will get their way. All the tax cuts will expire, and Dems can come back and push a new tax cut just for the middle class -- a circumstance that will only increase the Dems' leverage further.”
*** Pelosi threatens to introduce already-passed Senate bill: And given that leverage, don’t overlook this gambit: House Minority Leader says that Democrats might try to schedule a vote, via a discharge petition, on the already-passed Senate legislation that would extend the Bush-era tax cuts only for household income below $250,000, CNN writes. “‘If Speaker Boehner refuses to schedule this widely-supported bill for a vote, Democrats will introduce a discharge petition to automatically bring to the floor the Senate-passed middle class tax cuts,’ Pelosi said in a statement. Under a ‘discharge petition,’ a bill can be brought to the floor without going through a committee or without approval of House leadership. The bill would need an absolute majority - 218 votes - to pass.”
*** Obama’s day: At 2:55 pm ET, President Obama hosts a bilateral with Bulgaria PM Boyko Borissov. And then about an hour later, at 4:00 pm, he delivers remarks at the Nunn-Lugar Cooperative Threat Reduction symposium at the National Defense University.
*** Wasserman Schultz to remain as DNC chair: NBC has confirmed from two Democratic officials that President Obama will ask the Democratic National Committee to ratify Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) to remain as DNC chair when the party next meets in January. Politico first reported the news this morning.
*** Checking in on Romney: Over the weekend, the Washington Post ran a piece checking in on Mitt Romney a little less than a month after his presidential loss. “Four weeks after losing a presidential election he was convinced he would win, Romney’s rapid retreat into seclusion has been marked by repressed emotions, second-guessing and, perhaps for the first time in the overachiever’s adult life, sustained boredom, according to interviews with more than a dozen of Romney’s closest friends and advisers.” More: “Unlike the last two unsuccessful nominees, Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and John F. Kerry (D-Mass.), Romney had no job waiting for him. His public platform fell out from under him on election night.”
*** The latest VA GOV developments: On Sunday, President Obama golfed with Bill Clinton -- but also with Virginia gubernatorial candidate Terry McAuliffe (D) and U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk. But could McAuliffe get a primary challenge from former Rep. Tom Perriello. As the Washington Post reported on Friday, “Former congressman Tom Perriello, currently at the liberal think tank Center for American Progress, has quietly approached prominent Democrats in recent weeks to let them know that he is at least considering a run, according to party operatives in Virginia. Perriello himself has not responded to several requests from The Washington Post for comment.” With Cuccinelli as the all but assured GOP nominee, the penalty for a primary on the Democratic side would SEEM to be less.
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Random Monday thoughts...
How is the "deal" the President offered to you Republicons two years ago looking right about now?
The good little right wing soldiers marched onto all the Sunday morning programs to laugh & whine at the Presidents proposal, while still refusing to offer a counter-one!
Not only can they not compromise, the don't comprehend the basic rule of negotiations 101... lol
Is the rumor true, Congress is only scheduled to work 9 days between now & the end of the year? Pathetic!
Grimey, are you sure you're not related to the Romneys? They are so distraught they could only muster up buying a "Boston Chicken" turkey to celebrate Thanksgiving... lmao
No matter how you slice and dice it, they RWNJ's are boxed into a corner and if they don't make some drastic changes to their game plan, this is going to end badly for them.
The GOP party has repeatedly created big deficits, and left Democrats to clean up after them. GWB's tax cuts for the wealthy contributed vastly to the U.S. deficit, and to the Great Recession. FastForward to today: House GOP's Boehner-Cantor are holding tax cuts for 300,000,000 Americans hostage, in order to give more tax breaks to some of the wealthiest folks in the World.
GOP's ultimate goal is to make the rich richer. Period. Once again the Topic du Jour is all about THEIR wants, THEIR donors' needs, and THEIR primaries. We the People voted to raise taxes on the wealthy, and by raising taxes we'll avoid increasing the deficit. The GOP discussion about the deficit, boils down to cutting the entitlements of 98% of Americans. Btw, "entitlements" = we already paid for them. And because entitlements were already cut in the first $1Trillion round of spending cuts, the cupboard is bare.
Republican officials use deficits to make the case for privatization. Expect that down the road a ways - GOP will make another fine deficit mess.
First we need a positive, non-austerity plan to fix the deficit that props up our economy. Let's start by going all-out to create jobs - re-hiring, educating & retraining workers, rebuilding our collapsing infrastructure. Via the AJA, we can put hundreds of thousands of teachers, police, firefighters, first responders, & construction-related workers back to work. Does it make sense to cut anything that is giving us certainty, and sustaining our families right now?
It was Hillaryous to see that Barry sent Tax Cheat Timmy to be his spokesman on the Sunday talk shows to promote his tax increases to satisfy the lefty liberal bloodlust to punish the successful.
He is a perfect example of why Dems love to vote for tax increases. Just like Cheater Charlie Rangel and several of Barry’s original proposed and actual cabinet members, Tax Cheat Timmy knows most Dems are not going to be affected by the tax increases and, if they are affected, they will just cheat on their taxes.
The Republican’s (Jack-off??) need to hold the line and make Barry and the lefty liberal Dems put spending cuts in detail and in writing into any bill that resolves the fiscal cliff. If Barry and the lefty liberal Dems get what they want without coughing up the spending cuts at the same time, they will NEVER agree to them later. If the Republicans are stupid enough to be Charlie Brown trying to kick the football that they KNOW Lucy will pull away at the last moment, then they deserve to lose their majority in the House. If more time is needed, the Republicans can pass a short term extension of the current tax law to avoid tax increases on January 1 and let the Senate Dems pass it or not and let Barry sign it or not. Then the Dems can accept their blame for the problem if the fail to enact the short term extension..
BTW, CNBC.com has a good slide show on famous cliffs including the cliff that Paul Newman and Robert Redford jumped off in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Thelma and Louise’s cliff and Cliff Claven.
No fiscal cliff solution in sight
By: Jake Sherman
December 2, 2012 02:54 PM EST
Here’s why you should be concerned about the state of play in the fiscal cliff negotiations: Things are getting worse. Not only is the proverbial precipice approaching, there’s a solid logjam and no momentum toward breaking it.
The Obama administration says there will be no deal without a tax-rate increase — Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner was blunt about that on this week’s Sunday news shows. Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) is saying the opposite.
The freeze extends inside the Capitol. There are no cries from rank-and-file lawmakers to avoid the fight, no event that would force either side to soften its position on any of the individual components that would make up a potential deal.
In fact, the opposite.
Republicans say Obama’s Pennsylvania speech, combined with Geithner’s first offer on taxes and spending, has galvanized long-running GOP opposition to tax increases.
WE ARE COUNTING ON HOUSE GOP/Boehner-Cantor to renew the middle class tax cut before Christmas.
Do GOP's wealthy donors admit they're willing to hurt America's struggling consumer class - unless their giant tax breaks are re-renewed?
If the GOP thinks our President is going to fold on his tax proposals, then they better be prepared for a " THELMA AND LOUISE". I'm loving it.
Joe in Albany - sorry you forgot to turn on your news media - your side lost, our side won and with it we proved that the majority of this nation think it is perfectly ok to let the tax breaks for the 1% to expire. When the 1% actually creates jobs with that money then I'd be happy for everyone in the deal process to take another look, unfortunately, I don't see that happening - has not yet.
Nice to see Nancy throw a high inside fast one via a discharge petition. That should rattle some caged brains. Love her or loathe her, she is a full action figure.
Austerity pitfalls: 21 states cut spending in response to the Great Recession.
The Center for American Progress finds that in those states: 1) unemployment is 4.1% higher than pre-recession.
And 2) there are 6% fewer private sector jobs in those states.
In states that e-x-p-a-n-d-e-d spending: Unemployment is 3.5% lower.
Feisty said:
LOL...nice. I'm pretty sure I am not related to the Romney's...but given what you said, maybe there is a distant relation on my grandmother's side! ;-)
Joe in Albany:
The best cliff on the list of course, is Cliff Claven. "Well, you see Normie..."
Joe in Albany - sorry you forgot to turn on your news media - your side lost, our side won
__________________________________________
The last time I read my copy of the Constitution there were two Houses in Congress that any bill must pass through before going to the President for signature. And the last time I looked (11/07/12) the Republicans had WON a clear majority of the seats in the House. Deal with it.
Agreed, it is going to end badly for them, and sadly, they will gleefully take the American economy with them. The GOPTP have shown us over and over again they aren't committed to actions that improve society. They are only interested promoting gains for the rich and to hell with the rest of us.
And speaking of hard core right wingers, I'm sure the current brand of the GOPTP must be thrilled at the nastiness in Hungary. The hard right party of that country is on a rampage to generate lists of Jews. Apparently they want a new holocaust. Gotta love the hate coming from hard right neo-cons, neo-Nazi, camps. How much longer before McConnell slides in a 'jewish list' component hidden in the tax cut negotiations? Cantor better watch his back - the neo-con movement is picking up steam and his GOPTP party may suddenly turn on him.
Union Baby
Just exactly what is it that you think your side won? Last time I checked the media we are in the same position today as we were before the election. The American people still want the House to get spending under control. President Obama is still being the same idiot with his failed leadership. I hope you enjoy paying the higher tax rates after the we hit the cliff. This country needs everybody to pay more so we can afford another four years of failed leadership and lavish vacations for the Obama's.
Give Obama everything he wants and let him own it.
About time the media started calling it the Obama Economy.
The Oil & Gas heads don't want to pay taxes - and they pressurize Congress via their Norquist mouthpiece.
Remember how GOP & their benefactors held U.I. and the payroll tax hostage in 2010, in order to get the Bush tax cuts extended?
GOP's goals and concerns are about making the rich richer and not upsetting their donors, even though it is well-known how the wealthy & Corporations do better - when the rest of us do better.
It's time for the Grime Weeper John Boehnor to resign. He is a drunkard and incapable of leading. Everyone shoe contact him to let the know how much they do not appreciate him holding Americans hostage.
#my2k
Drama Queens, Lindsey Graham must be sick too death. Eric Cantor has invested against America.
Driver's Seat
From the article above:
Did I see the term "mandate" in there?
Hmmm, Republicans called the 2010 election win a "mandate".
Now, the tables have turned and the Republicans have suddenly got selective amnesia.
The 2012 Election of Democrat President Barack Obama was a MANDATE.
And the plan the President proposed is OUR plan.
It's called negotiations. We give our plan, they give their plan, and you come to an agreement.
What is the Republican plan? Has anyone seen it?
Face it Republicans. President Obama is in the driver's seat.
Deal with it.
Salud
I hear it was heavily over salted - according to news reports, Queen Annie can't stop sobbing, and since she doesn't drink beer, spent the day crying over the turkey.
Man, you losers can't seem to let go of the Romney's can you?
Kind of like your obsession with Bush.
So much for FORWARD.......
WCA, not a bad idea. We pinched the name 'Obamacare' from the GNOP why not name an improving economy the 'Obama Economy.
By hurting the 98% Boehnergeddon will be the begining of the Teapocolypse fall of Plutocratic Elite.
Kudos to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi for offering her own way to break the apparent stalemate over the so-called fiscal cliff -- by taking matters out of House Speaker John Boehner's hands.
Pelosi called on House Republican leadership to bring that legislation to the floor next week and threatened that if they do not schedule a vote on the Senate bill, Democrats will file what's known as a discharge petition on Tuesday to force a vote on the measure in her chamber. If Democrats successfully obtain 218 signatures on the discharge petition, it would automatically force the middle income tax cut bill to the floor for a vote.
That's what a real leader does; instead of sipping wine and then going on Tee Vee crying about your inability to lead.
Watch out Boenher what ever Nan,cy wants Nancy gets. I'msure you've heard that
Resign Boehnor, you're a drunkard space cadet. Perhaps, that's why you don't mind flying off the fiscal cliff,
my#2k
Feisty---gotta love the GOP. They saw how well Mitt's refusal to offer a concrete plan worked during the election and decided to use that tactic for the fiscal cliff standoff. I am starting to believe that they all do get their news/views from Fox and Limbaugh. How else to explain their behavior?
You know you are really depressed when your income is $56,000 per day and you can't call a caterer for Thanksgiving Dinner and instead go to Boston Market!
Tomas
The 2010 elections were a mandate. A mandate to stop the Obama/progressive/liberal spending. It is still in effect.
The 2012 elections were not a mandate. Nothing changed.
You are right about one thing, President Obama is in the drivers seat. He and his clown friends have tried for four years to get us out of the ditch that the Democrat Congress got us into in 2007 and they can't find a way out. He is a failed leader and now we know he can't drive.
With a 14% approval rating?
I - DON'T - THINK - SO!
The American people are sick to death of the GNOP obstructionism...
PS: How many tea baggers in the House were sent packing last month?
Watching your continued refusal to face the facts is surreal...
A lot less than were retained.
JH-479998-
The 2012 Election was a Landslide win for the Democrats.
A huge mandate for this country.
Approval rating for the 2010 Tea Party Congressmen is in the toilet.
America's fiscal spending problems fall entirely in the laps of the drunken sailor Bush Administration who accumulated more debt than any administration in history of the US.
America hates the Tea Party.
Democrats are restoring our greatness once again.
Before you blog, get your facts straight.
Salud
Joe HAHAHA
But the Republicons LOST the popular vote for the House. The total votes for Democrats was over 500,000 greater and would be in control of the House next year if it wasn't for gerrymandering. The Republicons in the House have no mandate. Obama and the Senate Democrats do.
THE FISCAL CLIFF SONG (sung to She'll be Comin' Round the Mountain)
We'll be going off the fiscal cliff real soon,
We'll be going off the fiscal cliff real soon,
The Middle Class will tumble
And the 1% will grumble
When we all go off the fiscal cliff real soon.
Oh the Weeper will be driving us you bet
Oh the Weeper will be driving us you bet
You can count on Speaker Boehner
His reason's just get lamer,
Oh the Weeper will be driving us you bet.
And the GOP will suffer in the end
Yeah the GOP will suffer in the end.
We'll grab the house in two years
And then we'll see some real tears
'Cause the GOP will suffer in the end.
Keep it up boys, you're just about to obstruct yourselves into obscurity. Welcome to the new GOP, the John Birch Society of the 21st Century.
It's amazing to me that the posters on here wake up in the morning so angry and ready to vent. Don't you get any sleep at night? Are you just so miserable in your life that this is all you have left? Or are you alone and have no one to talk to except these virtual people?
JH, You need to get your facts in order. Presidents pay for their own vacations and that is a fact.
Feisty,
Please provide your definition of "obstructionism" and how it differs from checks and balances. Also, please provide us with your definition of "compromise". Is it the same as capitulation?. I personally think the GOP should give EVERYTHING to Obama. Anything he asks for, they should approve. Why? because when we've spent ourselves into oblivion, he will have to take ownership and responsibility for the mess he's made, he can't blame anybody but himself anymore, and God help us all.
Did I see the term "mandate" in there?
Hmmm, Republicans called the 2010 election win a "mandate".
Now, the tables have turned and the Republicans have suddenly got selective amnesia.
The 2012 Election of Democrat President Barack Obama was a MANDATE.
________________________________________________
Barry getting 50.5% of the popular vote is NOT a mandate. It's less than he got in 2008.
Taking 63 seats in the House from the Dems in 2010, the largest loss by any party in mid-term elections since 1938 IS a mandate. And keeping the vast majority of those 2010 wins in 2012 IS a renewal of that mandate.
White Collar Auto.......said:
At least, WCA is able to see (reality) through his tears.
ObamaCare.......and now.....ObamaNomics.......sounds good !
Joe in Albany, on the other hand, is still waddling on his amputation stumps slinging threats and insults at President Obama and democrats as they continue forward across his bridge.
Democrats need less than 20 republicans HOR's for the discharge petition. Expect them to be solicited PUBLICLY. Will 234 go on record opposing middle class tax cuts with 2014 looming?
WCA.....have a private talk with Joe. He is in denial.
Ann Romney would cry over a broken fingernail - she's like that. I never liked her. Her house is too small to hold all her grandchildren - such a problem!
Ha Skip, now I will have that tune in my head all morning.
If the dems have the 'upper hand' then why isn't this small matter about the fiscal cliff being resolved now? I know, the Repugs are at fault- blame it on them, easy targets. We voted this administration back in to 'finish what they started' and 'four more years, rah rah rah' so we're waiting... waiting for results and not excuses. Time to walk the talk!
The best idea I have heard is for the Republicans in Congress to pass the Simpson/Bowles plan in it's entirety and send it off to the Senate since it was a bi-partisan effort commissioned by the President.
Joe in albany,
Deal with it you say. Ok, fine. If republicans in the house don't agree to raise taxes on the rich, We go over the CLIFF. Which means they will get the blame for it and in 2014 the republicans will lose control of the house. Now, can you deal with that loser..
Pam - you are a terrible troll. But that's what lieberals with no life do I guess.
Remember the fiscal cliff was the created in the first place because Obama F***ed up the negotiations for the "Big Deal".
Sure Ian.
Obamanomics will be just as spectacular of a failure that Obamacare will be.
But you mindless lemmings will never ever see it.
Until it's to late........
Joe in albany, wrong again.
Obama has 51.5 % of the popular vote and they still counting votes. Currently he holds a 4 million pop vote lead. No other president since FDR has WON the popular vote over 50% back to back other than Obama.
Thats a mandate you Hater!!
To: GOPTP/Right Wing Nut Jobs,
If the American economy go over the cliff and regardless of the out come good or bad you will be punished come election time.
All I know is that both sides need to get their sh*t together and do it NOW. We go over that cliff and the 65,000 people employed at Ft Hood will be screwed.
Cap tax deductions at 50 grand, we can't just cut discretionary spending, but capping tax deductions will give us more revenue possibly making it so we can avoid raising marginal tax rates. There's a couple of you on here who know far better than I do. What do y'all think?
I am so sick and tired of the Bias BS on this panel always blaming the GOP for everything. It takes two people.!!!!!!!!! All this Government does is spend,spend like a drunken sailor with no budget, keep raising the debt cealing, more pork stimulous which it didn't work the first time. Hey! Obama why don't you and your party STOP spending our money.!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe these politicians and President needs a huge pay cut for all the screw ups that are going on in D.C.
And once again (or should I say ongoing) the Republicans prove to the world that they don't give an obese urban rodents derriere about the people of this country (unless they have 9 figures or more, are predominantly white, old, etc.). It's all about "Mine's bigger than yours". What they don't realize is that without the production and consumption of the 98% they're dissing, they will have vastly lowered incomes. Unless, of course, they follow the Romney plan and invest heavily overseas.
Joe HAHAHA
Actually, "Barry" got 50.9% of the vote. Duhbya got 50.7% in 2004, and that was supposedly a mandate according to the pundits, and, my guess is, according to Mr. HAHAHA. Whether you call it a mandate or not, President Obama said that he would not sign any bill that extended the Bush tax cuts for the rich. Polls show that around 60% of the public agree with that position. There's no way he can or should cave on that position.
Are you too stupid to see that even if the Republicans don't have a plan that you find acceptable, that doesn't mean the democrats have the right answer?
Mandate shmandate. You still have to work with Congress. A skill Obama has never demonstrated.
Joe in Albany-
Yep, Joe, denile is not just a river in Egypt.
President Barack Obama won in an electoral LANDSLIDE of 332 to 206.
That is a MANDATE.
Get over it.
P.S. Stop listing to the loser Rush.
P.S.S. Why are you still here? Shouldn't you be blogging on the Blaze or Drudge or some other RW nut-job propaganda website
Salud
You liberals have no clue what you are spewing. Democrats have no track record on fiscal issues, in fact it has been over 40 years since a Democrat controlled congress put forth a balanced federal budget. Clinton's balanced budget was courtesy of a Republican controlled congress. Every time liberals spew the hypocrisy meter goes off the chart.
Obama campaigned in 2008 against the Bush tax cuts and yet left them in place. Now Obama only wants to tax the top earners because that works politically even though it does nothing to solve the massive annual deficit he is running. Obama hasn't put forth any sort of serious proposal to fix the debt or the deficit. Obama will leave office as having added more to our national debt then all previous presidents combined. We will top 20 trillion in debt under Obama, and yet liberals tout his plan as fiscally responsible.
The President should not budge an inch, it is time for republicans to put some actual numbers on the table, if and when they do then he should call McConnell laugh out loud, then call Boehner and claim he is flabbergasted at an offer that is not serious. The automatic triggers is something the republicans signed off on, if they don't pony up big time, just let it happen. The president does not have to negotiate with them republicans have to negotiate against what will happen if they they don't negotiate with the president. He does not have to give in on the tax increase he gets that automatically if they do nothing, if they want to defend the 2% to the death, let them.
You folks are funny.
To think that something that may or may not happen on January 1, 2013 will effect elections in November of 2014 is just silly.
Attention spans aren't that long in this country anymore.
Not sure what you mean but Eisenhower won both his elections with more than 50% of the vote in 1952 (55.18%) and 1956 (57.37%).
You can also make the argument that Obama has the lowest percentage of the vote for re-election since FDR except for George W Bush. Every over President was re-elected with a greater percentage of the popular vote than their first election. So I guess this would mean he has as much political capital to spend as George W Bush.
All meaningless arguments over a mandate and political capital. At the end of the day the Republicans still control the House and the President will have to deal with them.
So tell me how does raising 1.6T over 10 years make Medicare and SS solvent?
But somehow only Mitt Romney's math was fantasy. What a joke the media are.
How seriously sad is that?
Your wrong WCA with 24/7 cable coverage and the Internet attention spans are longer than ever. I'll give you an example: Romney ran hard right to win the primary, then tried to go to the middle for the general, but that is no longer possible in today's world where everything you say is well documented and proliferated endlessly.
Joe in Albany
It was Hillaryous to see that Barry sent Tax Cheat Timmy to be his spokesman on the Sunday talk shows to promote his tax increases to satisfy the lefty liberal bloodlust to punish the successful.
Joey,
I see nothing funny. You are worst than the to turtle Mitch McConnell. Both of you need to go back in your shells or get with it.
MYTH: Feigning shock at economic proposals that voters endorsed:
MYTH: “We have laid it all out for them, a dozen ways to raise the revenue from the richest Americans.” Boehner claimed that Republicans have detailed their revenue counterplan to Obama’s proposal to allow Bush tax cuts to expire for the wealthiest 2 percent, while extending them for the middle class. On Sunday, pressed to provide details on their biggest proposal since the election, Boehner dodged answering.
MYTH: Obama has “put $400 billion worth of unspecified cuts” on the table. Boehner claimed Obama’s “unserious proposal” lacks details on what entitlement savings he would put forward. But the details for Obama’s proposal for $400 billion in savings in Medicare and other social programs have existed for quite some time, in his FY 2013 budget released in February. It includes $600 billion in “reforms and savings, to our health care and other government programs,” without the dramatic restructuring that Republicans propose, as well as $1.6 trillion in revenue.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/02/1268771/big-whoppers-fiscal-cliff/
The 2012 congress is he worst do-nothing congress ever.
In his second term, President Harry Truman condemned the snail's pace at which lawmakers actually got some work done, labeling it a "Do-Nothing" Congress. After all, the 80th Congress (1947-1948) only passed 906 bills over its two-year period.
The current Congress, by comparison, has passed just 196 bills, easily the lowest total since the U.S. House Clerk's office started keeping track. Consider the progress in chart form, which should drive home just how unproductive the 112th Congress (2011-2012) really is.
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/29/15541727-making-the-do-nothing-congress-look-great-by-comparison?lite
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That's not funny Joey. Rather it's pathetic a waste of tax dollars, and un-American
I still don't see a problem with taking this country off of the fiscal cliff. Republicans want it lets give it to them. Here is the thing, those tax rates will return to the levels that Bill Clinton had and that was the last time this nation balanced a budget, shrunk government and created the biggest boom in my lifetime. Anybody that wanted a job had one. What George W. Bush and co. did, was take this country from one that was at relative peace, one that was working and one that was a well run government to a complete failure in all aspects. He left the country at war, heavily in debt and a budget deficit of 1.3 billion dollars. Many of the same republicans that are in congress balking at ways to fix the mess that they and their republican president made, were the ones that created one of the biggest mess's in the history of this country in the first place. Its time to throw ol' Grover over the cliff, raise taxes on the wealthy and cut spending in places that doesn't hurt the regular people of this country. To hell with republicans, full speed ahead for the democrats.
I see where you're coming from Forrest, but that coverage only lasts long enough for the next story to hit, it doesn't stick around long, for example this very article it's been up for a couple of hours, in another couple of hours they'll put up another one and this one will be forgotten.
It is time to stop playing politics, both sides knows they can agree and stop this madness, nobody is telling the whole truth, not Obama/Gathner nor Bohener, we need more revenue but also cut spending. It is time start working, Republicans have a mandate to put the fiscal house in order, and Obama the mandate to get some more revenue if he wants something get done. But if the blame game continue nothing is going to get done.
The House has 9 more days to stop themselves from staggering over the cliff. What are they doing? Crying and whining. Over the cliff with them!
Obama has a plan with pen in hand. Reid has a plan to reform the filibuster. Pelosi has a plan to force their hand.
The republicons have bluff and bluster. Over the cliff with them!
Alan - You could also make the argument that Obama is only one of two Presidents to be elected to their second term with a lower popular vote margin than their first term. The other was Woodrow Wilson who got us into WW1 after campaigning on isolationism.
And it continues......we sit here day in and day out arguing over who's party is to blame and who is the better party when both of them suck donkey balls. All of the problems in this country are the fault of both parties and all of us for voting these dead beats into office. Time for term limits and for us tax paying folks to take our country back.
As a younger female, I just want to thank both Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton. In a world where Kim Kardashian rules, it's nice for smart females to have REAL role models. It just makes me think how screwed up this country is, that sex tapes get you more fame and powe using your brains and flex your proverbial muscles.
Just one of my pet peeves.
Other than that, Congress, just get the job freaking done already. Everyone knows what needs to happen. It's math. Math doesn't lie. Raise taxes through rates and loopholes, and as a young person I have no problem with retiring a couple years later. Perhaps raise the age for anyone under 40 right now.
Voila!
Oh the drama..., the "fiscal cliff" can't get here soon enough. Neither party has a plan to actually solve America's problems. The republicans want to play politics and the president wants to bankrupt us...
The tactic is clear cut. If the Republicans agree to rate hikes on those making 250k or more, they will also have to be the bad guy and be blamed for the entitlements they propose to cut. It is a lose lose for Republicans.
The best way out of this is to agree with O'bama's proposals in their entirety, explaining that they took that position in order to avoid the fiscal cliff that would have otherwise been a foregone conclusion. The blame is then soley upon the Democrats for the inevitable failed policy. Only oppose proposals of amnesty for illegals...agreeing upon this will only get the Republicans a few percentage points of the Mexican vote, while losing far more of the enthusiasm from thier base. Reap the momentum of a failing America due to Democrat policies in the mid terms, and two years later for the Presidential nomination. Start implementing conservative policies when you have the appropriate mandate to do so. Bide your time Republicans, and let the Democrats sink under their own bloated weight.
After bitching, moaning and whining for years about the "evil" "unfunded" Bush Tax Cuts, why are all the LWNJ's lining up in support of the "unfunded"
middleclass-only-BushObama Tax Cuts?To Joe in Albany, first, you need to expand your group when you say there is unity in the Republican base. You must be talking about the Tea-Party Group, because there are a lot of Classis Conservative Republicans who are wavering on the Tax Issue. Second, do you realize how Childish you sound/(read) when you use the stupid nicknames for any Public Figure you do not like. You sound like my five year-old grandchild. Please try to refute what others are saying in their posts by using good old fashioned truth and logic. After reading your post I find that these two key parts of a discussion were sadly missing from your post. Again, name calling, so childish.
The issue is that you want to return to the tax rates of the Clinton Administration but do you also want to return to the spending levels? Already there are more retirees so the cost of SS and Medicare is greater. These costs are projected to go even higher due to demographics. That is what I posted above regarding the unfunded liabilities of these entitlements. So even if you go back to the Clinton revenue figures there will still be a large deficit (over 500B) because of the increase in spending. (BTW, this is also counting a DoD spending half it's current budget).
Alan NJ:
The Repubs have to deal with a President who won the election based on a campaign promise to let the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy expire, a position that 60% of the public agrees with. Obama now has no choice but to stick by the promise, and no reason not to. Going over the alleged "cliff" means that taxes will increase on the wealthy but the Repubs can vote for a tax cut for the middle class, which doesn't violate the oath they swore to their overlord, the Norquist.
I just simply cannot believe that there are any of you sheeple left out there that truly believes that ANY of the losers elected to destroy this nation on EITHER side of the isle really gives a hoot in hell whenever the subject concerns the well being of this nation and it's citizens. The ONLY thing that they give a damn about are themselves, their puppet masters, and what they can do to benefit any other nation in the world other than this one. Wake up you bunch of blind dumb and deaf idiots.
Obama has 51.5 % of the popular vote
____________________________
Jason: Got a source for that number??
Real Clear Politics has Barry at 50.6% (I was off by 0.1%)
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/
We know exactly what we're talking about. The President as leader sets the agenda never congress. The deficit remained low under Clinton because he presented no new programs. The deficit exploded under Bush because he cut revenue 500 billion a year for the rich, refused to fund 2 new wars he pushed, began a new 200 b illion a year drug plan and paid a special half a trillion payout of $300 to $1200 for every tax payer 1 month after his second win he called a stimulus. Every single program the CBO blames for our current huge debt was introduced by Bush, not Congress.
I agree. Still waiting for answer.
I'd also love to know how Obama paid for his escalation in Afghanistan, but Bush simply put it on the credit card. Maybe some giant from the left, Mr Walker or Houston, can explain exactly how the funding for war has changed since 2009.
@Larry
Really? Can you back this up with a credible source? So, if Obama wants to revert to the pre-Bush rates for the rich why will that net him only 80B - 160B a year and 500B?
So, are you advocating an end to Medicare D? Why no comments on how the Obama Administration expanded the benefits of this plan by closing the donut hole? How did Obama pay for that?
People fail to see the effects of out of control spending. Raise taxes on someone else, don't touch my medicare. Don't raise my taxes. Don't let the payroll holiday expire. Keep unemployment benefits extended from 26 weeks to 99 weeks.
Ultimately, with out of control spending no amount of revenue will prevent the nearing economic severity.
You liberals are just plain stupid. If you think for one minute our fiscal insanity can be solved by exempting the middle class from a tax increase you are dreaming. Everyone in Washington knows that to be true, so what is your problem? Can't handle the truth? The only issue is how to increase those taxes and not get blamed for it. If Obama were truly being honest he would just lay the cards on the table. But Obama is only interested in raising taxes on the middle class if he can blame Republicans, and that is exactly what they are attempting to do.
We have a 1.2 trillion dollar annual deficit for which Obama is touting a tax plan that raises 86 billion a year. Obama is talking about 400 billion in spending cuts over 10 years, or a meager 40 billion per year. There are only two honest points in this argument. First, unless Washington raises taxes on everyone, slashes spending, and reforms the tax code we are going to be running massive deficits as far as the eye can see, and Obama will leave office with our national debt well over 20 trillion. Second, no one in Washington actually cares about either the national debt or the deficits least of all Obama.
Here is the thing, those tax rates will return to the levels that Bill Clinton had and that was the last time this nation balanced a budget, shrunk government and created the biggest boom in my lifetime.
You libs keep bringing up the Clinton years. Ok, how about actually doing everything clinton did (with a republican congress he worked with).
1. Raise taxes
2. Loosen regulations (All obama does is add more regulations)
3. Make actual cuts (obama's cuts are all done with government math and aren't actual cuts).
All obama and you libs want is to raise taxes. That in itself will not fix a damn thing except give you more money to give to more takers.
Btw, just read some job loss reports from the medical equipment industry that are happening due to the equipment tax. Hope all you libs are happy your messiah is causing the loss of good jobs!
Again, name calling, so childish.
___________________________________
Do you mean like the lefty liberals calling Mitt Romney "Mittens"??
For the first idiots response above, Obama is taking a month long vacation after campaigning for 4 years--talk about leadership.
Obama wants to tax the top 2% of Americans. Then why does Warren Buffet still pay less taxes than his secretary and yet he is a billionaire and yet has an outstanding bill with the IRS; why does Geithner control the IRS and is Secretary of the Treasury and yet has failed to pay taxes to the Federal government; and why has Costco CEO Jim Sinegal obtaining a $3 billion loan to pay out dividends taxed now at 15% rather than paying 43% when Obama's taxes kick in. If you all remember at the DNC, Sinegal spoke there and he was for taxing the wealthy and cutting taxes for the middle class. Heck yes Buffet, Sinegal, Geithner, and others like them are for taxing the wealthy cuz they have financial planners, tax experts, lawyers, and others on staff that can mix around their wealth to avoid taxes such as Sinegal is doing with dividends that normally would have been paid out next year when Obama's idiot tax ideas are set to take place.
Get a reality check America--Obama a jealous, scorned man with a horrific and destructive agenda for America.
John, get your head out of fantasyland... the economy was crippled by Liberals turning home ownership into an entitlement. Legislation under Carter gave the govt leverage to force banks to loan to bad risks, then Dodd and Frank protected Fannie and Freddie while they bought up the crap loans. And legislation under Clinton deregulated banks so that Fannie and Freddie and banks could package up the bad loans into securities and sell them to our 401Ks. End results, bank bailouts (which they paid back), Fannie and Freddie bailouts (still owe us $200Billion), lost 1/3 of our 401Ks, and the housing market plumetted... all so that Dems could "give houses" to plantlife who couldn't pay mortgages... so get your facts straight before you vomit those progressive lies....
The so-called 'Fiscal Cliff' is nothing more than austerity, and history shows that the sooner that you implement austerity measures when the debt gets out of control, the less painful it will be in the long run.
Besides, letting the tax cuts expire merely returns the tax rates to those under Clinton, when everyone said they were 'fair'. And the beauty of letting them expire is that it requires the President and Congress to do what they do best - NOTHING. The change is automatic.
As for the cuts in spending - they only remove the huge increase in spending under Obama and return the spending to where it was in 2008 - under that 'big-spender' Bush.
Well if we are going to govern by polls I can expect to see the Administration's plan to dismantle Obamacare pretty soon?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html
BTW, why do pollsters never ask if people agree to their own taxes going up to cover medicare, SS and the deficit? When they are asked if they would give up any benefits they always say no. How about asking them if they want to pay the actual cost of their benefits?
Yet the American public blamed the Republicans......gotta love it.
If we do go over the fiscal cliff....the Republicans will get blamed.
And this doesn't just happen for no reason. You would think Republicans were smart enough to know this, but they just keep on giving us reasons to blame them for all the bad in the world.
If the election was such a mandate for the President, then why do the Republicans have to tell Geithner and the President what to cut. You would think with the "solid" plan the President had during the campaign he would propose a better solution than tax increases of 1.6 trillion and only 400 to 600 billion in cuts to spending. This is certainly not a balanced plan in my book. This first proposal is nothing more than political BS. I am tired of the BS. I am not by far a 1%er, but I wouldn't mind paying a little more in taxes myself if I could trust any of these so-called leaders to spend it on the right things. Tax and spend, tax and spend. If you or I ran our finances like this, we would have to file bankruptcy within a year.
JH-479998
President Obama is still being the same idiot with his failed leadership
JH, failed leadership is John Bone head.
John Boehner Needs to Lead Or Get Out Of The Way
Tell Speaker John Boehner that the American people have spoken – he needs to LEAD and accept the President and Secretary Geithner’s plan to avoid the fiscal cliff, or get out of the way and resign.
CALL the Speaker’s office – (202) 225-0600
Tweet at the Speaker – http://www.twitter.com/SpeakerBoehner
Get to him on Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/OfficeofSpeakerBoehner
Furthermore, JH, how can you call our President an idiot when you right wingers have Drama Queens like Eric Cantor, Lindsy Graham, and that forgetful, old, goat McCain going on TeeVee making complete fools out of them selves? The Republicans have done nothing to advance.
maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/… pic.twitter.com/x5sHaEDg
Just for the records, contrast President Obama accomplishments with the do-nothing Congress.
http://3chicspolitico.com/president-obamas-accomplishments/
Ditto the rest of the zoo animals in the GOP and the Tea Potty on Capital Hill!
__________________________________________________
We Americans don't need a bunch of clowns standing in the way of progress.
Here are the Deficit figures for the last 5 Presidents - with a link to the official Obama White House government source to verify;
Reagan (1981-1988) = $1.339 Trillion over 8 years, or $167 Billion per year.
Bush 1 (1989-1992) = $933 Billion over 4 years, or $233 Billion per year.
Clinton (1993-2000) = $320 Billion over 8 years, or $40 Billion per year.
Bush 2 (2001-2008) = $2.006 Trillion over 8 years, or $251 Billion per year. This included all of the cost of the wars.
Obama (2009-2012p) = $5.333 Trillion (Proj) over his first 4 years, or $1,333 Billion per year. That's $4.6 Trillion more than Bush spent in his first 4 years.
Obama projects another $5 Trillion of Deficits in the next 4 years, or over $10 Trillion which our children and grandchildren will have as a 'millstone' around their necks for their entire lives. Running up huge debts is a great way to 'pander for votes', but somebody will have to pay it back (our children) - with interest. Here's the official government link - See Table 1.3;
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals
PS – Let's also look at the 'JOBS' picture under Obama;
The total average number of people employed in 2008 (Bush's last year, including losses at the end of 2008) = 136,790,000.
The total average number of people employed in 2011 (Obama's 3rd year) = 131,359,000 – that's a LOSS under Obama of 5,431,000 net jobs.
Here's the Link to official Bureau of Labor Statistics site on employment to verify - Compare jobs for 2011 vs 2008;
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt
White Collar Auto.....you said:
Do you (also) STILL think the auto bail-out was a failure? You were one of those predicting President Obama would not be re-elected. Here's a jog for your memory:
It seems your perspective on what constitutes failure and success is at odds with reality. But, perhaps you think all those Ohio auto voters were unable to discern their own interests.
Tax RATES on those earning over $250k WILL go up. Changes to our tax code pertaining to dividend income and capital gains are very likely to change. Senate filibuster rules will change.
Now, it is up to you folks whether the middle class gets an offset to the Bush era tax cut expiration. Either way, democrats win.
You folks have one hand grenade (debit ceiling) left. Your problem is that it is chained to your white collar. Go ahead, pull the pin. It will go off in 2014. Think not? Well, you might want to reconsider based upon your prognostication history. Really, you should follow your own advice: "Let Obama have everything he wants."
This can be a tremendous opportunity for a teachable moment for the Republicans. America has obviously crossed the threshold from strong self reliance, to an entitlement mentality. Allow O'bama's policies to stand on their own. Show Americans the consequences of unfettered liberalism. Do not allow them room to play games and play that blame card. It obviously works. Dont allow that card to be played!
Here we go:
"I won....get over it.....my way or the highway."
Rhetoric is getting old and the election is OVER. Guess the LWNJ's are going to use this line continuously since the War on the Women has run it's course (wait a minute.....SofS replacement).
Time to set aside the bickering and get with the program and see what cuts to social spending the LWNJ's are going to propose. Better check the Oval Office and make sure Mr. Obama has the opportunity to vote "PRESENT".
That "wind" you feel is actually a "breeze" getting ready to push our economy over the cliff. Four years ago the Community Organizer in Chief pushed through an $800+ BILLION "stimulus" package (that didn't stimulate). That was bad enough.
But THEN this president did not push through budgets for four more years. Why? Because as long as a budget was not approved then the PREVIOUS year's spending is automatically approved. Why is THAT important? Because it allowed Obama to keep spending that $800 Billion addition EVERY year for the next four years. Do you realize we have "borrowed" over $1 Trillion EVERY year to, in effect, spend another "stimulus" package EVERY year?? And so we spend an EXTRA $800 Billion EVERY year and THAT cannot even recover this failed Obama economy?
So, sorry you cannot continue to spend an $800 Billion stimulus package every year going forward. The spending MUST be cut back to 2007 levels. Once THAT is done THEN we can talk about tax increases. You CANNOT spend nearly $1 Trillion EXTRA dollars then say you want to tax "the rich" to gain at most $50 Billion.
Sorry, cut spending OR EVERYBODY gets to pay higher taxes. You see liberals LOVE to spend other people's money so IF you think our current spending is needed then YOU can help pay for it. EVERYBODY pays more in taxes or NOBODY pays more in taxes.
What I see and have heard is they are sick and tired of the Demorats and there my way or over the cliff we go. Then they want to blame it on the Republicants.
No just the MEDIA is so BIIAS they always say its the Republicants fault. The Demorats are NO BETTER.
They are both worthless. Only the Republicants are trying to keep this country going in the right direction. I know that is the problem the demorats want it going in the left direction. They do NOT care if it is the correct direction as long as its there way.
Let's examine the "mandate" that each side is supposedly able to claim. In 2010, the Tea Party ran on the theory that Obomacare was unconstitutional and only Republicans could create jobs.
In 2012, President Obama ran and won on the theory that tax RATES on the wealthy ($250,000+ in income) should go up. Obamacare was proven constitutional. Mitt Romney ran on cutting taxes for the wealthy and ending Obamacare. Mitt Romney lost.
So: what is the status of the Mandates: Obamacare is the law of the land and will be fully enacted. Tax rates for the wealthy will go up on Jan. 1. With no deal, all tax rates go up Jan. 1.
Also, President Obama has proposed spending to increase jobs. That was part of the GOP "mandate" from 2010 as well, jobs.
For Republicans, they have a choice. They can either cut taxes for 98% of Americans or be blamed because the rates went up.
I want you lying ,stealing, politicions to pay the money back that you have stolen from us over the last twenty years out of your own pockets. I do not care which party is in office. I know what you are going to say, "that was not me, that was the previous administration" but as sure as the money is owed to us you would have, if it had been there to steal.
Fully two-thirds of the national debt is owed to the U.S. government, American investors and future retirees, through the Social Security Trust Fund and pension plans for civil service workers and military personnel. China, it turns out, holds less than 8 percent of the money our government has borrowed over the years.
Just under $5 trillion of the national debt is owed to the Social Security Trust Fund and federal pension systems. A little more than $11 trillion is owed to foreign and domestic investors and the Federal Reserve,
Which federal program took in more than it spent last year, added $95 billion to its surplus and lifted 20 million Americans of all ages out of poverty?
Why, Social Security, of course, which ended 2011 with a $2.7 trillion surplus.
That surplus is almost twice the $1.4 trillion collected in personal and corporate income taxes last year. And it is projected to go on growing until 2021, the year the youngest Baby Boomers turn 67 and qualify for full old-age benefits.
So why all the talk about Social Security "going broke?" That theme filled the news after release of the latest annual report of the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance and Federal Disability Insurance Trust Funds, as Social Security is formally called.
The reason is that the people who want to kill Social Security have for years worked hard to persuade the young that the Social Security taxes they pay to support today's gray hairs will do nothing for them when their own hair turns gray.
That narrative has become the conventional wisdom because it is easily reduced to a headline or sound bite. The facts, which require more nuance and detail, show that, with a few fixes, Social Security can be safe for as long as we want.
If the Republicans keep playing the game with Democrats, they are going to lose. I can see it all comeing now...Republicans agree to tax hikes for those making 250k or more, while also being the bad guy by having to make the proposed spending cuts to entitlement programs. Meanwhile, Republicans are most likely going to do a deal granting amnesty to illegal aliens in order to grab a share of the Mexican vote. Dont be fools Republicans!!! You cannot out promise liberals! For the love of God and country, dont be fools!
piegan . . .
TWO? Just two? Let's talk about 435 and see if ONE is actually speaking for all of them. According to Rep Cole yesterday, he isn't. This isn't a battle between President Obama and Fox News, it is a battle to see if your Congressperson can stand up and make your voice heard and if your voice is different than Boehner's let him/her know! As noted on all of the talk shows yesterday morning, the President's offer is a start and the Congress needs to counter with something!
Is it just me or do Ayotte, Boehner, and Graham always sound like they're going to start crying at any minute?
The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every fragmentof the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened.
Norman Thomas, U.S.Socialist Presidential Candidate 1944
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL "No matter how you slice and dice it, they RWNJ's are boxed into a corner"
Actually, the Republicans don't need to do anything - just let the Bush tax cuts expire and the spending cuts begin. We need austerity now to combat the spiraling debt problem anyway.
Oh, and for those who say 'It will be the Republican's fault if we go into another recession' by not working with Obama, I guess that means the 2008 recession must be the Democrats fault since they controlled both houses of Congress and they refused to work with Bush on fixing the housing lending problem that was at the crux of the financial meltdown.
It's funny how the liberals complain 'do as I say, not as I do'.
@1SGF. An even better tax plan is a very simple one: Gross Income Tax where ALL sources of income are taxed the same and there are NO deductions, credits, subsidies, etc. All taxes are files as individuals (and since the SCOTUS ruled corporations as individuals, they have to file the same way). That means there are no married couple filings, no dependent deductions, etc. First $25K of an individual's income is tax free. From $25,001 to $250K tax rate is 15%, from $250,001 to $750K tax rate is 30%, and any income over $750K is taxes at 45%. Capital Gains, Estate Taxes, etc. are all eliminated because the income from those sources are already considered as part of the Gross Income. Very simple form to complete, and wage withholdings are based on the annual wages/salary that is paid out in the weekly/bi-weekly/monthly paychecks. All dividends paid out, all stock market transactions, etc. are taxed at the time of transaction. At the end of the year, you simply total your gross income, calculate your tax rate for each taxable division, and then subtract the withholdings from the tax due and pay the difference. It cuts down on IRS staffing and will also eliminate a lot of the tax preparers (H&R Block, etc.), but that is a sacrifice we need to make in the employment stats. I'm sure those people can find jobs in other fields as we use the money to develop more job creation activities in infrastructure, etc. It is far past time for us to go back to the investments that the ONLY good GOP president in the last century made in this country with the interstate highway system, etc. Plus, remember that it was Eisenhower who warned us to beware the Military/Industrial Complex. Oh the price we have paid in this country for not heeding that warning.
Ian,(although I don't know why I bother).
The Auto bailout has been a spectacular failure for the American taxpayer. Very soon The government will start selling their stock at about a 50% loss. If they sold it all today including their interest in Ally (Former GMAC) the AMerican taxpayers will stand to lose over $30 Billion. Just about what Obama wnats in his new stimulus program.
Kind of sad that ypou faorage through my comments looking for back up. Yeah, I and a whole bunch of people read the tea leaves wrong. You liberals can't seem to let it go.
I can tell by your comments you aren't one of the $250K plus people that taxes will be raised on.
SO what is it today for Liberals. The top 1%, the $250K plus group or End all of the Bush/Obama Tax cuts?
Cuz you folks can't seem to decide.
Repubs have to publicly rebuke King Grover Norquist and retake their pledge to the office theu hold. Until they do, those that took the Norquits pledge are guilty of treason, pledging to obey Norquist above and over the people, and the State and Federal offices they were elected to represent.
Republicons must also must retake their pledge to the office they hold because like traitors, many of them took the pledge to vote against any bill that might help the economy recover, vote against anything that would help president Obama look better in the next election. They pledged like traitors against the betterment of our nation.
Like George Bush Senior said..."Who the hell is Norquist anyway??!!!"
Chuck Todd and his band of punsters must quit giving Norquist air time...Norquist was not elected to any office. Why do they continue to give this weasel air time....Down with King Norquist and the world will be a better place.
1SGFitzsWife4ID.......you said:
Here is evidence that you are wrong:
http://raychelfitzgerald.newsvine.com/_more/users/comments?year=2007&month=6&filterBy=a
Everything (in your case, back to 2007) said by 1SGFitzsWife4ID on Newsvine is right at our fingertips. The internet (now) keeps better and more records than a criminal court.
Hey Feist
First of all this legislation was never going to be considered by the Democrats until after the elections. The same as the health care rules. Everyone knows about the time constraints of congress after the elections but it was more important not to get the information into the hands of electorate before the elections. Now we are going to pay the price. Oh well that's life. This is how it has been for ever no surprise. These congressmen need the time off just like the president because they are mentally exhausted from the elections.
No one has said that. Let's move on to the next tall tale......
Once again Roy gives us statistics and then uses slight of hand to make some wild assumption about the results.
You've failed to account for the 10,000 workers every day retiring. That's 10,950,000 people over 3 years. So, using your logic, that's 5,519,000 NEW jobs net (136,790,000-10,950,000 = 125,840,000 vs. 131,359,000 = 5,519,000).
Roy Wilson....the used-car salesman of the year.
Say Roy-Boy,
I'm still waiting for a list of those websites you claimed I have been banned from participating in?
Time to walk the walk little buddy...
If you are willing to lie about something so innocuous, it shows you're willing to lie about anything!
Explains why you're a Republican't! lolk
Until you provide them, STFU, you're nothing more than a serial liar who no one takes with an ounce of seriousness!
LMAO@U little buddy!
PS: Take your bogus numbers with you... I've lost track of how many times you've been exposed for using fraudulent figures!
Jerry: Social Security will be "safe" as long as we want? Did you REALLY just say that? Do you realize there is not ONE DOLLAR in the Social Security trust fund? It is broke. No money. Zilch. Nada. Empty. None. Gone. Zero. There is NOTHING in that trust fund except Treasury Bonds or IOU's. Our government has "borrowed" the money and spent it needlessly on other stuff.
I teach college Economics and I describe it this way: Say a family puts $20 a week into a cookie jar. 40 years later they decide to go on one huge final family trip and want to go on a cruise in Alaska taking 10 relatives. The cost? $20,000. But they don't HAVE $20,000. So the father tells the wife "we have $20,000 in the cookie jar - why don't we borrow it to go on the trip?. So he writes on a piece of paper "IOU $20,000" and places in the cookie jar and taking the $20,000. The next week he needs gasoline and realizes that EVERY week he goes through $20 of gasoline so NOW every week he pulls out the $20 that went in the cookie jar and writes "IOU $20" and places in the cookie jar.
Now 15 years later the husband and wife is approaching retirement and the husband says "do you know we have $40,000 in the cookie jar!!". The wife says "but honey, there is nothing but IOU's in the cookie jar and no money". He says "nonsense, we borrowed from ourselves" but doesn't take them long to realize that $40,000 of IOU's that you owe yourself is useless. Because it is YOU who must pay it back.
That is how our Social Security trust fund is. Yes there is $2.7 Trillion in the trust fund but it is all IOU's!! There is NO MONEY in the trust fund. We lent it to ourselves. So in order to replenish the $2.7 trillion we must PAY it back. But we don't have a surplus to even START paying it back. In fact we are STILL in $1 Trillion deficits. So when the IOU's are "called" to cover Social Security payments we must BORROW money to make that payment.
You MUST realize we are broke. This country is bankrupt. We have no money. We owe over $16 Trillion AND we have over $100 Trillion in Unfunded Liabilities. There is NO MONEY in the Social Security Trust fund and we are broke. I assume you are of reasonable intelligence so you MUST realize that Social Security is not ONLY unsustainable but is currently broke.
The entire government is full of shysters in both the democratic and republican Congress and Senate leadership. This dysfunctional group of leaders have no intention of ever working together for the good of the country. Middle Class Americans better hold on to their ankles tightly and get ready to be SCREWED by the DIP$hits we unfortunately voted into office.
Republicans have a serious war going against 98% of the American People, and Republicans are raging against taxing the top 2% wealthiest Americans another 4 cents on the dollar.
And Republicans say this is NOT class warfare?
Why, because Republicans think, as they conduct this war in clear view of the entire world, that we Americans can't see how hard they're fighting for the wealthiest Americans AGAINST 98% of the American People.
You gotta be kiddin me.
Joe in albany,
No matter how u try to spin it. Obama won with a mandate. And that 50.6% is 3.5 million more votes than romney. At the end of the day Joe. Who is President, Obama or Romney. Now how u like that.
IOU's are not nothing.
They spent the money on things like defense too. Was that spent needlessly?
StoptheCannibals:
Doesn't matter WHAT they spent it on. It is gone and we don't have the money to pay it back.
My comment was not an argument on WHAT the Social Security trust fund was spent on but THAT it was spent and no longer exists.
Stay on topic if you can. The money is gone and no matter HOW you want to spin it doesn't matter - we have no money in the Social Security trust fund and this country is broke.
White Collar Auto......you said:
You see, WCA, this is why a POTUS has to be much more than a mere bean counter. In fact, if ALL the money our government invested in our auto industry was lost, it would STILL be a success so long as the auto industry (and its suppliers) survived. That's because it is a STRATEGIC industry and a MAJOR employer. But, you bean counters don't care about such (NOT) unimportant things as people's lives and national security. No, you are much more anxious to waste billion$ upon billion$ in a stupid (Iraq) war that will return only shame.
You also said:
Apparently, you are unfamiliar with some of the tools available to everyone and understood by some of us. We don't pull handles on our adding machines anymore.
and......
"Tea leaves" !! That's rich. How about listening slack-jawed and glassy-eyed before the Fox News pundits as they paraded fool after demagogue for their audience's consumption? We know science is not a conservative strong suit. But, to disregard cold hard statistics in favor of political superstitions is.....well, "kool-aid". Karl Rove's bewildered, confused, and pudgy face on that night is becoming iconic. It seems more likely you were smoking the tea leaves than reading them.
.....and then, you said:
Right WCA.....neither is Warren Buffett. You are so (not) perceptive. It's not all about personal greed for everyone WCA......Some of us actually care about fairness and what is in the best interests of our nation.
Then, there is your (meant to be) clever finale':
Oh, we decided for sure. 50.9% of us. Have you thought about how poetic it is that Mitt Romney (you folks) got almost exactly 47% of the vote?
I'm assuming you're talking about ARRA (the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act), the $830-billion stimulus.
You're saying that it was an initial $800 billion in spending and that, every year since, there's been an extra $800 billion in spending, the same way there was one the first year.
Err, no. The $830-billion cost of ARRA is spread over TEN years (2009 to 2019), so it's not like we spent a lump sum of $830 billion in one year alone. And it includes $288 billion in tax incentives (the very same tax incentives you've been so keen on promoting elsewhere). So, overall, ARRA amounts to $543 billion in spending over a decade. And here you're saying it's $800 billion in spending every year.
Also, of nine serious studies that have been conducted as to whether the stimulus worked, six positively say it worked and only two say it didn't work.
"Economics professor," LOL.
Alan NJ:
Ah, the old rightwingnutjob trick of changing the subject when they're losing the argument. Nobody said anything about governing by polls. Polls are something that need to be taken into account, as Mitt Whatzisface found out to his dismay. But the fact remains that Obama campaigned on letting the tax cuts for the rich expire, and he WON the election, despite your lame attempts to switch to subjects you find less unpleasant. He's got to make good on that campaign promise. Unlike some promises that he didn't keep in his first term like closing Guantanamo, this one is totally in his power, Congress cannot obstruct him on this one.
BTW: On the Affordable Health Care Act, the RCP poll average is only a plurality for repeal. As more provisions take effect and it becomes more apparent that the Republicans lied about death panels and such, the law will likely become more popular.
Republicans lost the election but refuse to accept the fact of that matter, which is the same way they deal with everything else.
If Republicans don't like it, then it just ain'd so.
They just keep on getting wackier.
OK, ProBusiness, let's stay on topic. I've paid into SS (and my employer) over many years. I'm not concerned whether it was spent or not. Social Security taxes refer to Old Age, Survivors and Disability Insurance (OASDI) federal program. It's insurance plain and simple. because I've (and others) have met the criteria for coverage (so many quarters of paying in, taxes paid, etc.) I'm entitled to the benefits. End of story.
If Politicians want to stop paying for everything else (except Medicare, which is insurance too), or disband as a government, that's up to the government. 'll be entitled to the benefits until and unless the government dissolves.
In other words, it's not my fault that the money was spent on other things. That's why the IOU's are very important, because they serve as a legal claim on that money.
So, get off your high horse with this "we don't have the money" attempt for an excuse. You try to use that to scare people from demanding what we've paid for (because you have other ideas of how to spend money). That's typical Republican scare mongering to get a tax cut for the rich, but obviously, it won't work.
Our government takes in about $2.2 Trillion in "money" each year, despite what you like to moan about. Start looking somewhere else for money.
Feisty - Great response to Roy. Isn't he one of the Real Americans? There are some of the same old crazies on here but quit a few new ones have lifted their rocks and crawled out.
What ever happened to Caesar?
.
The richest 1% were the beneficiaries of the majority of our national debt.
Now Republicans want the poorest 99% of Americans (and their children and grandchildren) to pay off that debt that mostly benefited the rich.
Thank goodness Americans are demanding that the rich pay their fair share.
given this information, there is a great possibility that the dems did this on purpose and kept the polarities for the last 4 years so that they could land right here...in the bully role they wanted so badly. I feel like this country is being told to go !@#$ themselves, on the grounds that "we won" its our country now.
The problem with the left part of this nation....they think they are actually going to get a check in the mail paid for by some rich person Obama pressured.....seems much like the mob
its just out of the question to reform some of these loopholes...I dont care if you raise rates for the rich 100% if there is a loophole then nothing is accomplished and Obama knows it, he is just counting on the fact that people are jealous and he is using his "seed" planting skills to get you on board. Go ahead tax the rich its not my business nor will it do ANYTHING for me...unless of course I actually thought Obama was going to force a rich person to give me some of what they have on the grounds that they stole this from me by keeping their foot on my little tiny head ....lol
Making the rich pay their fair share as some of you idiots espouse is going to bring in roughly 86 billion dollars per year. Which will fund our bloated federal government for 8 days. We are running 1.2 trillion in annual deficits, so with this make the rich pay their fair share mentality we still have a 1.1 trillion annual deficit. Did liberals simply skip math class? Even the two wars are costing 1.2 billion per year, so cut that out and we still have a trillion dollar deficit. Take away the drug benefit for seniors and we are down to a 930 billion dollar deficit. So where is the liberal plan that is actually fiscally responsible, or are you just more interested in spewing meaningless drivel?
For the last 32 years the aristocracy has been getting richer. A lot richer.
In the last 32 years the rest of us have been getting poorer. Some as much as 30% poorer after taxes.
The aristocracy is paying less taxes right now today than at any time since the 1920s. The rich also only pay income taxes, which is 42% of the total taxes paid. But they own well over half of the country. They are waaaay undertaxed.
inequality-p25_averagehouseholdincom.png (PNG Image, 631x346 pixels)
So? The fact no one group can fund all the governments spending doesn't mean they shouldn't pay their share. It makes more sense to look for additional sources of revenue than Romneys plan to cut revenue 500 billion a year, increase military spending 200 billion and begin a new space program.
I support taxing the rich. Because I'm really anxious to see what the libs are going to pull once they realize that by taxing the rich, they have solved a damn thing.
Larry-367607 you spew nonsense. Take a moment to look up the facts. The Medicare prescription drug benefit is 68 billion per year, not the 200 you claim. The two wars are 1.2 billion per year. The tax break for the rich under Bush was 86 billion not the 500 billion you claim. You just refuse to accept the fact that spending is up under Obama. Take away the tax breaks for the rich, end both wars, and take away the drug benefit for seniors and Obama is still running almost a trillion in annual deficits. That is the simple truth. Obama came into office on a deficit of 460 billion in Bush's final year, now we are running trillion plus. Put on your big boy pants Larry the Democrats share the blame for that fact. When are you going to wake up to reality, Washington creates problems, they solve none. Term limits for congress, an entirely new tax code, and a balanced budget amendment is this nations only hope.
Alex - the net value of the plan is that Obama has a campaign promise that he kept. Other than that it does nothing - as it does not generate enough revenue to balance the "unfunded" middle-class tax cut, or counter increases in the yearly deficit or the skyrocketing national debt.
Taxing the rich is just picking the "low hanging fruit". In order to resuscitate the American economy, we need a healthy spending middle class. Besides the middle class tax cuts, how else can we insure they have good paying jobs? Where is the bargaining power of the worker, with their respective employers?
TO: AlexM-3929653 who wrote:
Well, if we "can't solve a damn thing" by taxing the rich, then why do Republicans think taxing the elderly, middle class and the poor would be a pathway to success?
The rich are the only ones who have any money these days, and we're only talking about 4 cents on the dollar.
And why are "trailer trash" Republicans trying to tie themselves in with "the rich" when they're just another portion of the 98%? Seems kind of "not too smart" to ask the federal government to tax you more in order to spare the rich a few more pennies that the rich is not likely to even miss..
TO: Roadkill who wrote:
Perfectly said!
The "bargaining power of the worker, with their respective employers" is EXACTLY what Republicans DON'T want the American Workers to have.
Republicans much perfer "slave labor wages" for American Workers, like there are in China.
Part of the Republican Platform, or at least Romney's platform, was to abolish minimum wage laws and destroy and disband all employee unions who protect American Workers.
Everyone’s talking about tax reform. But no one really knows what it would do.
By Martin A. Sullivan
At his confirmation hearing in 2001 to become George W. Bush’s first Treasury secretary, Paul O’Neill told the Senate’s tax-writing committee: “If you want to give me inducements for something I am going to do anyway, I will take it. But good business people do not do things for inducements.”
The outspoken former chief executive of two Fortune 500 companies was telling lawmakers something they rarely hear from the business community: Taxes don’t change behavior.
Just outside the Senate Finance Committee hearing room where O’Neill made these remarks, however, is the famous “Gucci Gulch.” That otherwise drab hallway in the Dirksen Senate Office Building is where high-priced lobbyists, with their fancy footwear, lurk when senators negotiate tax bills. These fixtures of the Washington tax scene would tell you that O’Neill is dead wrong, that tax breaks — particularly tax breaks for their clients — create jobs and boost the economy.
So, who’s right? Do taxes affect behavior or not? This is a key question now that Congress is looking over the fiscal cliff and gearing up for what could be a major overhaul of the tax code.
But the more important question is this: Do taxes affect the things that are critical to our economic well-being, such as employment, investment, innovation and worker productivity? Where companies book their profits doesn’t matter as much as where they build their factories. When investors sell stock may matter to brokers, but what shapes the economy is whether lower capital gains rates affect investment and entrepreneurship. We want to know if the research credit increases spending on science and technology, and not just on accountants coaxing more tax benefits out of existing activity.
Why? It’s partly because economists, being human, often let their political views influence their analyses. The spectrum of their findings mirrors their wide political differences about the virtues or vices of taxes.
A little clear thinking can go a long way. Consider the example of how higher income taxes affect work and savings. Theory tells us that a higher tax rate reduces the reward for working and saving. And that reduces the incentive to save and work, and makes you more likely to head home early and put your feet up. But if you’re trying to maintain a certain standard of living or sock away money for your children’s college education, higher taxes might increase the amount you work. Given that many middle-class families fall into this category of “target savers,” it is hard to believe that tax increases can greatly reduce the amount of saving and investment in the overall economy.
It also helps to consider your personal experience. If income taxes go up next year, are you or any of your friends and family members likely to work less as a result?
Finally, look at history. The most relevant comparison for today’s debate is what the economy looked like before President George W. Bush’s tax cuts took effect. From 1993 through 2000, the top personal income tax rate was 39.6 percent, and the economy generated fantastic growth. To be sure, the economy may have grown even more if tax rates had been lower, but at a minimum, the Clinton era shows that a top rate of 39.6 percent does not necessarily mean economic ruin.
Tax reform that lowers rates and limits breaks is clearly the right path. High rates and targeted breaks complicate the tax code. They encourage businesses to borrow more and use complex tax shelters — good news for the folks in Gucci Gulch. Tax breaks also unjustifiably favor certain sectors of the economy over others, often based on influence rather than worthiness. Worst of all, they unjustifiably favor certain individuals over others
The political conversation needs to start afresh. Democrats somehow have wedded themselves to the idea that rates on the wealthy must rise. But that’s the wrong approach, particularly at this stage. To achieve their political and policy goals, they need only to raise the tax burden on the wealthy — cutting breaks and leaving rates steady.
At the same time, conservatives could do everybody a favor by putting a lid on their often indefensible claims about the effects of higher taxes. Hardly a day goes by without Fox News stating as fact that Obama’s proposed tax increases on the wealthy would be economically “catastrophic” or “disastrous.”
It’s perfectly fine to oppose sharply higher tax rates on the wealthy on moral or philosophical grounds. But claims that we face economic doom if Obama’s policies become law simply are not grounded in reality. A change of a couple of percentage points in the income or corporate tax rate isn’t a religious issue; it’s an accounting matter.
The federal government’s books need to add up. The Paul O’Neills of the corporate world will make their business decisions largely the way they would have anyway, and most working people will wait until the end of the day before putting their feet up — at least the ones who aren’t wearing Guccis.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/everyones-talking-about-tax-reform-but-no-one-really-knows-what-it-would-do/2012/11/30/5882a7a0-3a73-11e2-8a97-363b0f9a0ab3_story_1.html
___________________________________________________________
Alright before everybody gets all hot and bothered and spoils Ol’ Santy putting the presents under the tree come Christmas Eve let’s look at a little bit of reality.
What we’re really talking about here is the “Effective Tax Rate” That’s the difference between what the rules and regs say that a Corporate Entity should pay and what it actually bottom line pays. And if you’ll Yahoo’s think that most Corporate Entity’s pay anywhere near what the law says they should then I’ve got a little piece of land down in the bottom that isn’t wet in the Winter because its froze over. So let’s get real here folks.
So the present Administration and by extension We the People (we just had a vote remember) want to raise Revenues by about 4% so we can pay off some of the Debt (not Deficit) that we have incurred and to put our future on a little firmer footing. Since at this late date we don’t have the time it would take to relitigate the last thirty years they are going to do it the quick way and just sweep up the whole kit and caboodle in their net.
Now the Yahoo Chorus don’t like this not one little bit. They and the Gucci Brotherhood have worked pretty hard (by their standards) and in most cases have already been paid for writing all this stuff into the Tax Code. Lord I haven’t seen such squealing since the last time I was down around a slaughterhouse around Thanksgiving when the rendering gets done.
Make no mistake it’s time for a little rendering. You’ll Yahoo’s can either render out a little of what’s throwing us so far out of whack or We the People are going to do it for you. Your Choice. But make no mistake it is going to happen mainly because when you had a chance to have it more your way you decided to put your money on an old nag that ran dead ass last.
So you’ll need to get busy and figger out what and who you want to throw overboard. The more Revenue you can get by throwing tax breaks out the window the less rates are going to have to go up. And I don’t mean things that benefit the Middle Class like your hero Ronnie Raygun either. There’s plenty of money out there. Hell you’ll ought to know because you been aiding and abetting the Gucci Brotherhood for about 30 or 40 years to hide the bodies of the shrinking Middle Class.
So it about time that you did a little more rendering and a whole lot less squealing and trying to scare everybody out of their Christmas. We’ve heard it all before and we are at the point that we ain’t buying what you’ll are selling no more.
‘Cause I tell you what’s fixing to happen Jan. 2nd. Most everybody will get up at o’dark thirty and head on to Work and just one thing will have changed.
That Little bit of Leverage that you’ll had left will have vanished
IR---great article. I've been doing taxes for a lot of years and no matter what the tax rate is, people think it is too high. Doesn't stop them from continuing to work and make money. I would add the the GOP is also fighting a battle to keep the dividend and capital gain rate at 15%. I can see an argument for encouraging capital growth with a lower rate (although the Clinton rate of 20% should be enough) but I don't think it is right to tax dividends at rates lower than those paid by people working hard at jobs.
As I asked above, what do y'all think about capping tax deductions at 50 thousand? Would we be able to avoid raising marginal tax rates?
Obviously we would have to cut spending too, defense can take a hit but military spending can not. It's not possible I'm sure but I say we scrap the whole tax code and start over.
Oh and IR it's not Gucci it's more like louis vatton (sp?) they're the ones who don't put their stuff on sale if it doesn't sell they just burn them at the end of the year, hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of product.
There is simply no tweaking of our tax code that is going to solve anything. We have been hearing for decades that we needed tax reform, and here we are today listening to the same broken record. As long as politicians feel it is okay to run up massive debt and deficits nothing will ever get better and the future of this country is in real jeopardy. The only hope for this country is term limits for congress, an entirely new tax code, and a balanced budget amendment. Washington creates problems, and neither party has any track record for solving them.
That's about as likely to happen as me growing a p*nis, so we need to talk about thigs that can in reality be done. I get so frustrated that us "average joes" can figure this sh*t out but our elected officials just sit around with their thumbs up their butts.
Steeler Fan -
I am a CPA and I agree with you. My proposal would be:
1) No increase in the current marginal tax rates for the current "brackets"
2) Create one or two additional tax brackets at higher marginal rates ($1 mil @ 37%, $2 mil+ @ 39%?)
3) Increase the tax rate on Capital Gains to 20%
4) Eliminate the "Carried Interest" deduction for hedge fund managers and tax as earned income
I have to disagree with the term limits argument, I think they effectively makes the lobbyists more powerful because they have no term limits. Term Limits take the power away form voters and give more of it to the party, contributors and lobbyists.
I don't see why money that is not reinvested should be anything other than earned income. When a person who earns $100,000 dollars working construction pays more in taxes than a person who makes the same amount working in a clean office, that is not fair. Out of the money the construction worker makes he has to buy tools and work cloths where the man in the office can wear nothing and make his money but still pay half the taxes the construction workers make. I say classify all net income as earned income and let everyone pay the taxes accordingly. It's the only fair way. One class of people paying less taxes when both earn the same money is not fair.
This myth that tax cuts for the high income brackets creates job is BS. What creates jobs is supply and demand from the people buying products. As long as middle class Americans have extra money to spend they will buy things which will increase productivity & jobs where extra money to the wealthy is salted away in some foreign bank. I've always wondered what happens to the money hidden by Americans in Swish bank accounts or even the Cayman Islands for that matter where the owner died and did not tell anyone that it was there. Is there a period of inactivity where the banks tries to find the next of kin or do they just sit on the money forever?
Even though that wasn't meant for me I wasnt to say thank you TNSEVOL.
TNSEVOL---I didn't even bring up the "carried interest" tax break--figured the hedge fund lobbyists were too well funded for that to get taken out. I think your idea of super brackets is a good one.
Larry---I agree with you that it is wrong that the tax system treats different types of income differently. I think this is something that the Bush tax cuts did that the average taxpayer didn't fully realize or understand. The only argument for it would be that it might encourage job growth and we just saw that it didn't happen.
1SGFitz . . .
You know I thought that was a great idea and then listened to some different views over the weekend. So many people think charitable deductions mean churches but the fact is so many universities, hospitals, clinics, libraries, etc., benefit from charitable deductions. As the monies are greatly needed by the recipients, I would be against any kind of penalization for those that want to truly give back to and benefit others with their charitable giving.
because the construction worker can write those things off his taxes at the end of the year?
This is all you need to know about today's GOP:
Steve Benen/The Maddow Blog:
As Paul Krugman explained over the weekend, the White House's call for higher revenue through increased taxes on high incomes "gets treated with an unmistakable sneer," while Republicans' calls for raising the Medicare eligibility age "gets very respectful treatment."
_______________
Glenngarry Glen Ross:
The funniest article on Mitt's loss was over at The DailyKos over the weekend. Mitt came in second and thus, should have gotten a set of steak knives.
2012 Campaign. The End. LoL.
Pat---it just shows how out of touch the GOP is---they don't realize how many people hang on by a thread to get to Medicare yet they want to raise the age. It also shows how they don't get the demographics---people are healthier at 65 than they are at 70 and by being in Medicare could get preventive care but instead they would keep them out. Next they will want to revisit raising the retirement age for Social Security. But they think it is ok to "sneer" at the President's plans.
only you care about someone who is not president...its easy to focus on the obsolete while the real boys are working, especially when you want your boy to get a free pass on spending every dime he claims he is going to bring in.
The national debt has been going down you know. For three years now it has been going down. It is down to the 2006 level.
U.S. debt has shrunk to a six-year low relative to the size of the economy as homeowners, cities and companies cut borrowing, undermining rating companies’ downgrading of the nation’s credit rating.
Enlarge image
Reduced borrowing means there is less competition for the U.S. Treasury Department as it sells debt to fund spending programs to help the nation recover from the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. Photographer: Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg
5:18
Oct. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Carlo Cottarelli, director of the International Monetary Fund's fiscal affairs department, talks about the global economy, U.S. deficit and Europe's debt crisis. Cottarelli speaks with Sara Eisen in Tokyo on Bloomberg Television's "Surveillance." (Source: Bloomberg)
Total indebtedness including that of federal and state governments and consumers has fallen to 3.29 times gross domestic product, the least since 2006, from a peak of 3.59 four years ago, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Private- sector borrowing is down by $4 trillion to $40.2 trillion.
U.S. Downgrade Seen as Upgrade as U.S. Debt Dissolved - Bloomberg
Well, whatever drugs you're on.. I'd like some... because you're well into fantasyland... the national debt has been increasing by over a trillion dollars a year thanks to Osquander's stimulus on autopilot... you have to do some Alice in Wonderland math to come up with any other conclusion...
Steeler Fan, they realize (as the GOP are not totally comprised by low-information or flatly stupid people... that's mostly the voters, not their reps). They simply have no interest in helping the multitudes who aren't wealthy. I'm of the opinion their grand plan is more of an attrition-based one. Raise the ages for Medicare and SS eligibility, and the slaves will work themselves to death, benefiting their benefactors and costing no one. Slowly but surely, I think the GOP is writing their final chapter in the book of American government relevancy. I read above where someone noted American's memories are short which has been true, especially by the republicans but I do believe this grand standing over the issue of raising taxes on the wealthiest 2% may finally change that. Plus the fact that 2014 isn't that far off. It will still be an issue come mid-term election time.
Lets get this straight, clear, and focused. Medicare and Social Security (as well as unemployment benefits) are not an entitlement - we pay for them out of our paycheck and I do not want the cost of bushes wars to reduce my benefits or make me work longer. Sorry George jr, I almost pulled an Elvis the day you were on TV and said that people wanted to work until they were 70 years old! He and other republicans need to understand something - the working/middle class of this nation do not want to work until we are 70, we did not stay drunk and stoned til we were 40 and then obtained our first job, a bail out from Daddy! We started working while in High School and all through college and by the time we are between 60 and 65 we are tired and want to retire, travel, enjoy our grandchildren, and enjoy being with our spouses (if we are lucky enough for all to still be alive) - we worked for it, we earned it, so yes indeed I am most certainly entitled to it! Don't raise the medicare or social security age - lower it so others could have our jobs and we can retire while we still feel like enjoying our lives. Tax the 1%, there is no reason not to, there is not one single item someone in the 1% can't buy with their now tax break that they could not afford to buy without it. Do give a big tax break to anyone who creates good, long term, good paying, good benefits jobs - otherwise, set the tax rates for the 1% back to the Eishenour days - we were a very prosperous nation back then, no reason for us to not be now.
Sorry.....social security, medicare, medicaid are classified as entitlements by the government. Watch the 2010 video of Obama on Youtube of him declaring that the biggest drivers of the deficit are entitlements and he specifically states medicare as an example. You can't sustain a system such as Medicare where you pay in about $109,000 over your lifetime then have the opportunity to spend over $347,000. The only way is to have means tested Medicare. This is why Timmy and Obama's proposal is laughable in that they are asking for $1.6 trillion in tax hikes with no specifics on spending cuts. We are not going to fall for the "we will address those later." Its balanced tax hikes and spending cuts that are real and measurable or no deal.
What specifics has the GNOP offered on anything?
Starting with Willard & Paulie, followed by Congress?
*crickets*
Feisty...you are right.....Timmy said he is waiting for specifics, but I think you know any specific proposals by the GOP to cut or reform Medicare will be rejected. Its easy to change rates; spending is hard.
Screw Timmy!
The people want specifics...
At this point, I would settle for one!
Shame the party of pale, male & stale have ZERO!
Reminds me of when Agent Orange went on 60 Minutes a year or so ago, just trying to say the word compromise caused him to sound like a cat coughing up a hairball!
Chris Rhodes Scholar-
Sorry, chum, but your wrong.
Seems there's a line on my paycheck called "FICA" that proves you wrong.
Courtesy of Wikipedia:
I earned it with the sweat and toil from my hard work.
Too bad you are so against hard working Americans and don't give a damn about children and the elderly.
Keep your grubby, greedy hands off of MY money!!!!
Salud
If that is the best a Rhodes Scholar can offer, that was one wasted education. There are several ways to skin that cat. First off, medical care has soared in this country over the last several decades. Yet medicare taxes and premiums have failed to keep up with those rising costs. Likewise, good old Bush threw in Medicare Part D, yet again, another unfunded 'free stuff' program. Well, folks, here is an idea. How's about we raise medicare taxes to keep up with the skyrocketing cost of medical care and Part D. Perhaps if we get enough folks screaming about those soaring taxes, this country will finally do something to curb the cost of medical care. I mean really, why does a hip replacement in this country cost 5 times more than any other country in the world?
TomasGrande.....sorry you are wrong....here is the definition of ENTITLEMENTS from the Government website:
The kind of government program that provides individuals with personal financial benefits (or sometimes special government-provided goods or services) to which an indefinite (but usually rather large) number of potential beneficiaries have a legal right (enforceable in court, if necessary) whenever they meet eligibility conditions that are specified by the standing law that authorizes the program. The beneficiaries of entitlement programs are normally individual citizens or residents, but sometimes organizations such as business corporations, local governments, or even political parties may have similar special "entitlements" under certain programs. The most important examples of entitlement programs at the federal level in the United States would include Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, most Veterans' Administration programs, federal employee and military retirement plans, unemployment compensation, food stamps, and agricultural price support programs.
And I have worked just as hard as you (most likely harder) for my money only to see it wasted on failed social programs and Obama's fantasy world of fairness.
Chris - which government website?
More vitriol from Pam, the fiery troll. nothing to see here, move alone.
John Boehner is the worst Speaker the House has ever had. He is not a leader and this is proven every time he opens his mouth. It's sad that he lets this tea bag group in the House boss him around. Also, for the year 2013 the House is scheduled to be is session for 126 days. Wow, a great part time work schedule with a great salary and benefits for doing almost nothing.
It's time for Mr. Boehner to do the right thing and step aside as speaker.
Sounds like an entitlement to me:
Why is it whenever the GOP starts talking about Social Security reform they want to raise the retirement age (again) but they never talk about increasing the FICA wage cap. The average worker pays a higher % of his or her wages into FICA than does any Wall Street executive. Doesn't seem right to me. Someone getting a million dollar bonus could afford to pay FICA on it.
ummm nice. But who is the hell said we are entitled to retire??? What a pipe dream...you put in a little and expect a lot...that is the problem. My statement from SS right now, states clearly that I will not get that money and that it will not exist when I retire...so what...I paid in just to watch your parents reap the benefits and now Im out....tough. Learn to live with it, stop crying about what someone owes you and worry about your damn self...not some social program that does nothing but give you false hope for when your old. sheep
We are not "entitled" to retire. We work for it and pay into programs so that we can , you know, actually retire instead of working until we drop dead.
That is what Social Security is. That is what your 401 is. I am retired and my only income is my Union pension. I worked for it and am enjoying it. It is mine. Not yours. And most certainly does not belong to those Robber Barons on Wall Street.
I worked 42 years for this and you criminals are not going to take it away from me.
roadlesstraveled
Than why not end the pretense of SS altogether? Let people take that money that would have gone into the SS program and let them be more responsible and invest that money themselves?
SURE Jobs 1 maybe nancy (you have to sign it to see what's in it)pelosi is available, she's so brilliant!
...and so the story is out there today that in just the first week after Election Day this year, the Venetian Resort Hotel Casino and Sheldon Adelson played host to Governor Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, Governor Bob McDonnell of Virginia and Governor John Kasich of Ohio.
I'm sure it was just coincidence.
Nope...nothing wrong with trying to court the GOP Sugar Daddy.
No! Not at all. It is also not a crime for me to laugh at their brown noses.
Actually, after their meetings with Sheldon Adelson, all three of them Jindal, McDonnell and Kasich have been spotted with severe a$$ cheek flap burns on their ears and faces.
And democrats don't have sugar daddies?
@Ben-636050....
Exactly...can you say George Soros.
The hypocrisy on the side of the left is simply unreal.
All of you who re-elected this man who wants to be King need to do some soul searching! How dare him to want total control over the debt ceiling, I'm beginning to believe that Obama and the Dems "ARE TRYING TO TAKE THIS COUNTRY DOWN"! No, I'm not a member of any party or organization.
How odd that idea was first proposed by a Republican ... Mich McConnell.
SHAWN,
And you clearly do not understand that the “Debt Ceiling” does not control spending
Dennis, Yes I understand that but the man wants all the power and that's not acceptable! As far as spending goes let's start with Grants, you know: Shrimp on a treadmill and musical about green energy, these two alone add up to $1.5 million.
Gee Shawn - is it just possible that this is not an Obama power grab? The power grab occurred when the GOPTP attempted to use the debt ceiling as a negotiation tool and caused a downgrade in our credit rating. Obama is simply telling Congress that once they have committed to spending, they have to pony up and pay the bill.
ummm...wow so if you attempt it you are responsible if someone else implements it....wow you guys are so gone, lost, and in control of Americas destiny.....we are done...this country is a wasteland of the ill.
Most of us dated someone or know someone who will never see the error of their ways and will always be convinced their actions were because "someone" else made me do it....how clever
Road... "this country is a wasteland of the ill"?? Well thank God and President Obama for Obamacare then right? I guess once again, the Prez knew what he was doing!
On average, a household approximately in the top 1 percent, earning $350,000 in 2010, paid $24,000 less in total taxes than it would have in 1980 (using inflation-adjusted dollars), saving nearly 7 percent of its income from the tax man. A household making $52,000 in 2010 — about the median income — saved an average of $1,500, or 2.8 percent. The average for a household making $22,000, about the federal poverty line for a family of four in 2010, was a savings of 0.8 percent, or $200.
I see that Joe the Albanian has finally shaken off his post- election hangover and is once again gracing this page with his inimitable, um, well... 'wit' is not exactly the word we want here... OK, his warmed- over and completely worn-out cliches and idiotic right-wing bromides.
Honestly, Joe, if you're going to continue to bother us, you could at least have the decency to browse a little deeper and steal some fresh material! We're well aware that all of the truly witty and perceptive people are Progressive, but some of your fellow wrong-wingers at least try to put the same old garbage in a bright pretty new wrapper once in a while! As my nephews in Northern California might put it: "Your s*** is weak, homes!"
You got my socks washed yet?
Foxy: lol !
Good one!
Hey Backbone your precious (Center for American Progress) is nothing more than a Right-Wing propaganda site full of misinformation so stick it up your azz you right wing pig sht Nazi.
FragU
??? WTF are you talking about ...
"The Center for American Progress is an independent nonpartisan educational institute dedicated to improving the lives of Americans through progressive ideas and action. Building on the achievements of progressive pioneers such as Teddy Roosevelt and Martin Luther King, our work addresses 21st-century challenges such as energy, national security, economic growth and opportunity, immigration, education, and health care.We develop new policy ideas, critique the policy that stems from conservative values, challenge the media to cover the issues that truly matter, and shape the national debate.Founded in 2003 by John Podesta to provide long-term leadership and support to the progressive movement, CAP is headed by Neera Tanden and based in Washington, D.C. CAP opened a Los Angeles office in 2007."
http://www.americanprogress.org/about/mission/
FragU: Pretty angry stuff. Go take a "chill" pill.
You Don’t Even Get Steak Knives. In Great Britain, when you lose the race to lead your nation, you generally become leader of the opposition in Parliament. It’s a highly visible, highly political job. In the NFL, when you lose the Super Bowl, you usually return the next season as a powerhouse contender. You’re feared and respected as the champion of your conference. In the Olympics you get a silver medal. In presidential politics, you get nothing.
Perhaps in no area of life is the difference between winning and losing so stark as in American presidential elections. No matter how close the election, the score is really always the same: 1-0. The winner gets all the power, the loser gets none of it. The winner becomes the most visible and powerful person in the world, able to sway markets with his words and legally order the killing of enemies, and the runner-up returns to his normal life...
(Read the rest at TheBiggerHammerMovie blog... )
A British Dr.just came out the other day talking about death panels and how they have been letting disabled/or thought to be, babies die by not feeding them,According to this Dr. It appears to take about 10 days for the infant to literally shrivel up and die,he said they have been doing it to the old for years but the babies are a new thing.And our wonderful Gov is voting to ratify a UN Treaty tomorrow on making it mandatory to register your child(if thought to have a disability) as a disabled child right after birth,weird why would they do that I wonder?I remember Sara Pailin stating Obama care would also have death panels,Just like other State run Medical.But she was Demonized like everyone else that points out the dangers of this Dictator & his Administration.
BTW this Treaty does nothing to help the disabled,they just want to know where your child with a disability is.
Remember what happened in Germany,if we don't learn and recognize what's going on we are doomed to repeat History.How long did it take before we actually started believing they were putting humans in ovens ?Dont be so blinded by their Propaganda that you miss what's really going on,most will stick their head in the sand until they come for you and your family,it will be too late and nobody to say I told you so.
This Administration is a Danger to the USA and our people.
THEY WISH FOR THEIR BABY TO GO QUICKLY. BUT I KNOW, AS THEY CAN'T, THE UNIQUE HORROR OF WATCHING A CHILD SHRINK AND DIE
Here is an abridged version of one doctor's anonymous testimony, published in the BMJ under the heading: 'How it feels to withdraw feeding from newborn babies'.
The voice on the other end of the phone describes a newborn baby and a lengthy list of unexpected congenital anomalies. I have a growing sense of dread as I listen.
The parents want 'nothing done' because they feel that these anomalies are not consistent with a basic human experience. I know that once decisions are made, life support will be withdrawn.
Assuming this baby survives, we will be unable to give feed, and the parents will not want us to use artificial means to do so.
Regrettably, my predictions are correct. I realise as I go to meet the parents that this will be the tenth child for whom I have cared after a decision has been made to forgo medically provided feeding.
A doctor has written a testimony published under the heading: 'How it feels to withdraw feeding from newborn babies'
The mother fidgets in her chair, unable to make eye contact. She dabs at angry tears, stricken. In a soft voice the father begins to tell me about their life, their other children, and their dashed hopes for this child.
He speculates that the list of proposed surgeries and treatments are unfair and will leave his baby facing a future too full of uncertainty.
Like other parents in this predicament, they are now plagued with a terrible type of wishful thinking that they could never have imagined. They wish for their child to die quickly once the feeding and fluids are stopped.
They wish for pneumonia. They wish for no suffering. They wish for no visible changes to their precious baby.
Their wishes, however, are not consistent with my experience. Survival is often much longer than most physicians think; reflecting on my previous patients, the median time from withdrawal of hydration to death was ten days.
Parents and care teams are unprepared for the sometimes severe changes that they will witness in the child's physical appearance as severe dehydration ensues.
I try to make these matters clear from the outset so that these parents do not make a decision that they will come to regret. I try to prepare them for the coming collective agony that we will undoubtedly share, regardless of their certainty about their decision.
I know, as they cannot, the unique horror of witnessing a child become smaller and shrunken, as the only route out of a life that has become excruciating to the patient or to the parents who love their baby.
I reflect on how sanitised this experience seems within the literature about making this decision.
As a doctor, I struggle with the emotional burden of accompanying the patient and his or her family through this experience, as much as with the philosophical details of it.
'Survival is often much longer than most physicians think; reflecting on my previous patients, the median time from withdrawal of hydration to death was ten days'
Debate at the front lines of healthcare about the morality of taking this decision has remained heated, regardless of what ethical and legal guidelines have to offer.
The parents come to feel that the disaster of their situation is intolerable; they can no longer bear witness to the slow demise of their child.
This increases the burden on the care-givers, without parents at the bedside to direct their child's care.
Despite involvement from the clinical ethics and spiritual care services, the vacuum of direction leads to divisions within the care team.
It is draining to be the most responsible physician. Everyone is looking to me to preside over and support this process.
I am honest with the nurse when I say it is getting more and more difficult to make my legs walk me on to this unit as the days elapse, that examining the baby is an indescribable mixture of compassion, revulsion, and pain.
Some say withdrawing medically provided hydration and nutrition is akin to withdrawing any other form of life support. Maybe, but that is not how it feels. The one thing that helps me a little is the realisation that this process is necessarily difficult. It needs to be.
To acknowledge that a child's prospects are so dire, so limited, that we will not or cannot provide artificial nutrition is self selecting for the rarity of the situations in which parents and care teams would ever consider it.
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So do you advocate killing the child quickly? That would seem the best solution. Of course there are always those who somehow think it is moral to leave someone in a coma for 42 years before they die- that's a real good use of medical resources. Are you saying we should be spending all available resources to keep a terminal patient alive as long as possible? At least adults can choose to have someone pull the plug- and if babies could make that decision for themselves they would certainly choose to end the suffering. How about those children born with no chance of survival- I suppose you just want to cry and moan. Offer some solutions. And stop blaming Obama- you are just so pathetic.
B-White: The truth hurts. Everybody knows we're headed down the same road as the UK with "death panels" It's coming get ready.
We are trying to speak to one set of problems without addressing the real issues. Our medical delivery sytem does not work for the average person in that it costs several times more than the next closest system and does not even place in the top ten in terms of results. One could argue that wealthy people from all over the world come here for the best treatment but then wealthy people go wherever they want for the best. That has nothing to do with the vast majority of the population. Real wages have not gone up in thirty years and neither party knows why nor do they know what to do about it. Everyone claims they can create more jobs but how many paper routes and waitresses do you need. If we do not fix these problems nothing will be maintained, defense, foreign or domestic. Republicans and democrats are just looking at a shrinking pie and trying to save the pieces important to them. However, when Norquist claims as he did Sunday that the republicans who have become open to new taxes are having "impure thoughts" it makes you wonder what cliff they have fallen off of and how bad they hurt their heads.
Frag, do you kick your pets? Old ladies? 2nd graders?
If Obama thinks the winds are in his favor (as NBCNEWS wrote on the front page of the website), then the President continues to value political games more than the well-being of the nation. The government-worshiping left might like it, but the nation as a whole is roto-rootered big time.
what are you sipping? You lost both the popular and electoral vote. You lost seats you will lose more mid-term. Clearly the people trashing the recovery are your guys. Mr. Bush was handed a balanced budget and lost it. The Republicans are willing to lose the recovery over taking the wealthy back to some semblance of an equitable tax burden.
Oh nonsense, Clinton never balanced the budget or produced a surplus.
What frigging recovery??? You're hitting the Kool Aide pretty hard yourself. Wait until Obamacare hits you (and every other American) right in the wallet then come tell us about this fantasy recovery.
JAGER: I guess I can lump you in with the President in preferring political games. "Equitable Taxes" is a synonym for the left's need to feed their god and provider--government--to whom they pray for a perfect leftist society. "Equitable Taxes" provides evidence both of the left's own greed for wealth and envy of those who succeed in life and have wealth.
Ahem.
September 27, 2000
Web posted at: 4:51 p.m. EDT (2051 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Clinton announced Wednesday that the federal budget surplus for fiscal year 2000 amounted to at least $230 billion, making it the largest in U.S. history and topping last year's record surplus of $122.7 billion.
"Eight years ago, our future was at risk," Clinton said Wednesday morning. "Economic growth was low, unemployment was high, interest rates were high, the federal debt had quadrupled in the previous 12 years. When Vice President Gore and I took office, the budget deficit was $290 billion, and it was projected this year the budget deficit would be $455 billion."
President Clinton announces that the federal budget surplus for fiscal year 2000 is the largest in U.S. history
Instead, the president explained, the $5.7 trillion national debt has been reduced by $360 billion in the last three years -- $223 billion this year alone.
This represents, Clinton said, "the largest one-year debt reduction in the history of the United States."
President Clinton announces another record budget surplus - September 27, 2000
Watching the 3 Stooges Cantor, Boner and Mitch the AWM. We see that you are in fact most committed, as said by Mitch, to taking down the President but to do that you have to continue to wreck the recovery. if we run off the cliff a much better informed electorate sees you and understands what you are doing and will place this tragedy at your feet and the feet of the RNC. There are not enough Teasippers and rich folk to protect you guys from a mid-term sweep. I dont make a lot but I will contribute to candidates committed to ditching you guys if you cannot cease being the party of whine and no.
And you think Obama, Biden and Geithner are better? Commit to whoever you like but if Obama continues to have his way there will be no country left to run. You don't believe me? In 4 years Obama has run up 6 trillion in debt to make the total 16 trillion. By the end of his term the debt will be upwards of 22 trillion. That is more than the GDP of the country. But you liberals don't mention how we are going to pay it DO YOU??
I can't help but laugh. Obama's point man on this is a tax cheat. You really think taxing the rich is going to solve the problem?
The government does not have a revenue problem. The government has a SPENDING problem.
I never thought in my lietime I would agree with Howard Dean, But I think we should go over the cliff (slope) until both sides are serious about the debt we will never solve it. Revenues do need to increase, I do not mind personally my rate going to 39.0 what I hate is waste and there is plenty of it. Democrats you cannot raise taxes by 1.6 trillion and purpose 600 billion in cuts- come on Econ 101. You seem to think that if those evil rich folks above 250k pay their"fair share" all will be fine and dandy, not so. Remember Bill Clinton reformed welfare, cut spending - had higher tax rates and then -- well a balanced budget. The greatest was to reduce the debt is to grow economy and reduce unemployment to 4% MORE people paying taxes is the key, even closing the 10 top business loopholes will only yield 865 billion, its a start.
Hey Boehner, you hold all the cards. Just say no to the debt limit increase and you get 1 trillion a year in cuts.
OMG. The wing nuts don't get another war. Ryan doesn't get his Medicaid vouchers, Roe v Wade stands. SS isn't going into the stock market and the wing nuts don't get military hardware that the pentagon doesn't want or need. Europe may even have to start paying for their own defense. Dictators are falling like flies, TV evangelists and mega churches may even stop robbing seniors and white trash of their hard earned money. We might even start to teach science, evolution may again be accepted as logical.
The wing nuts fear that the deficit may even be dramatically reduced. But what they seem to miss is that in 4 years the economy will again be heating up. This will make everyone think they are rich and again vote republicon. At the moment, this is just about tea nuts trying to still hold back the economy for the midterm election. Ironically, a good economy is actually what will bring them back to power, but they are so bent on making O look bad that they just don't get it.
@Paliban, why is the deficit even talked about? VP Cheney said defictis didn't matter. But yes, lets go over the fiscal cliff. No matter what, the GOP gets the blame. Everyone knows Obama wants higher taxes on the upper class, and the GOP wants cuts.
Obama has explained his proposals, now it's time for the GOP to explain theirs, to the public, not just their low informed base. Lets hear your manure pugbags, what are you going to cut? Are your salaries and benefits going to be included in the cuts? If not, why NOT?
Boy....there sure is alot of rage in here by the Democrats. Common theme seems to be that they think 100% of the American people are behind them and THEY have a mandate to do whatever they want when they want. 120 million people voted in this last election and Obama won by 3.5 million votes. Hardly a mandate and hardly a 100% of the American people. GOP controls the House and will for the next four years. you can blame it on redistricting if you so choose. If Obama wants to get anything done and have any legacy at all, I would start being serious with his proposals, get his butt in a conference room with both parties, and lead for a change.
He won. You lost. Get over it and move on to a job.
Chris...after two more years of this presidents failed and agenda oriented policies, these liberal idiots will see what a real "mandate" looks like. Even the freeloaders will have a second thought as their loot will be reduced as the money will run out. Even the Santa Claus that we all grew up with would produce stuff that he gave away. This santa claus just wants to take away and give away. It is a shame, but this great country will get back to prosperity.
catthepat: He won 51% of the vote and there are still 48% whom he doesn't seem to care about. This is supposed to be a democracy where everyone's vote counts. Pres. Obama should be representing ALL AMERICANS, not just the 51%. He needs to get home and begin the negotiating with Congress. He just uses the liberal media instead of face to face with Congress. What's that all about?
President Stinky (BO) WANTS everybody to have higher taxes!! If you're dumb enough to vote for that thing.....TWICE......Then you obviously don't know how to handle your own money anyway. Stinks knows where it should be spent!!
You lost. Get over it and move on. Something NONE of the GOP seems to get.
Catthepat,
You don't get it, do you. Well ALL lost. Wait unti 1 Jan 14 for that proof.
Ah yes. That is when Dirty Harry Reid reforms the filibuster rules so that you un-American republicons can no longer stop Congress from working.
If the GOP (and especially Tea Baggers) do not make a deal, they will be relegated to a mnority party for the next 50+ years. None of them seems to get it. Bonehead, Old fossil McConnel and the rest would rather see the economy tanked than work with a black President. Sorry to pull the race card but what else could it be?
Um 16 trillion in debt, more added in 4 years under Obama than ever before 8 % unemployment, 23 million looking for work, 48 million on food stamps, etc.. etc.. Question why all the name calling? Tea Baggers , isn't that kind of dated now? Old fossil? how old do you think Reid and Nancy P are? - The race card? Democrats always pull that, if one even suggests Obama could be wrong or you disagree with him does that qualifyone as a racist? It is a ploy to get Conservatives not to question but to go along to get along for fear of being labeled.
Sorry catthepat, the race card has been pulled out so many times it is a tattered and worthless statement. YOUR president is an unqualified, incompetent moron who has no idea how economies work, or how to compromise. He's certainly not a leader, but simply an egotistical POS.
Catthepat.....keep dreaming..that is what most Dems are good at. History is not on your side. Tell when was the last time we had a democratic president for more than 8 years at a time. The resuls wil surpise you. If you are interested in a Monarchy, then move to England. Two party system and GOP controls the House. Compromiseor perish. Its that simple.
@catthepat, me thinks you got it correct. The old white men couldn't believe their Johnny McCain got beat by a black man the first time. Then the old white men did everything they could to make him a one term President.
Then the old white men couldn't believe their mittens also lost to a black man, and their plan for a one termer failed. Hence we see the results, they are in denial, plain and simple. So is their low informed base in denial.
If that isn't true, then why isn't the GOP presenting, to the American People, their plans right now? We know what Obama's plans are, but nothing from the GOP.
So it must also then be true that the GOP has no plans, they are planning to say NO to everything again. Except it be different now, and the American voters have woken up to that FACT, which the GOP doesn't recognize, as everyone knows about them and FACTS.
So lets go over the cliff, who cares? Either way, the GOP is toast, and will be irrevelant for quite a few years down the road. Enjoy it tea baggers who brought it on yourself. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
celtic 1: I couldn't agree with you more.
yeah sally, its because all the kids on the play ground are mad he is black...lol your like 2yrs old I swear.
miklKit: Is this Putin or Chavez? Are you a communist who thinks we only have one party in this country?
It looks like we all agree that this "Obama" character is a worthless piece of crap! Everything that this incompetent "jerk" proposes, even the democrats refuse to support! He is "experienced" at nothing, and is definitely "a bump in the road", in trying to get this country back on track! *To all of you idiots that voted for this worthless bozo, I suggest that you get your GED, clean yourselves up a little bit, quit taking all of these obama handouts , and do yourself a favor., AND GET A JOB!
Well, he did propose to be the Pres and he got quote a lot of support. Or have I been dreaming? You really know how to show respect. I'm sure you are a joy to be around.
just proves idiot democraps will vote for any dumb man!
You try to vote for the right person. Then they get to Washington & they lose all reasoning & ability to think for the people who voted for them. They are only out to better themselves politically. Bunch of 2nd graders! Damn that was an insult to 2nd graders they could probably do better!
Americas cancer
To everyone out there who believe that raisng the tax rate on the top 2%, someohow leads to a tax cut for everyone else, evidentually doesn't understand what the words "TAX Cut means". A TAX CUT is when you tax rate that you pay actually goes down. IN NO CASE HERE WOULD ANYONES TAX RATE GO DOWN. It either REMAINS the same or will INCREASE.
And the idiot in chief wants 1.6 trillion in new taxes, where are they going to come from. If you just go with the tax increase on the top 2%, you still only get 87 billion a year, or just around 870 billion in 10 years. That's only half of what he wants. And befor people like "joe the idiot from Albany" chimes in, that 87 billion figure is from the democraps own CBO.
"Idiot in Chief" Dave? He's our elected president. Your comment shows disrespect to his office and to the majority of us who voted for him. Boehner and others show disrespect to us too, persisting in playing "daddy", telling the majority of Americans that what they want doesn't matter and that they and their elected president are stupid. Republicans yap about the "will of the people" when it suits them. "The people" reelected Mr. Obama and a majority of "the people" favor higher taxes for the rich, who will REMAIN rich even then, Taxing the wealthy at a higher rate won't solve all our problems, but even if it DID, Republicans would still oppose it because those who favor it are the "wrong kind" of people, not within the "scope" of the Republican "vision" for America. Your party is shooting itself in the foot, and gangrene WILL set in. Just you wait. "Irrelevant" will be your new name.
a community organizer skilled in intelligent spew who plants the seed that "the rich must be bad", is a bully is not a president
Nikolaus20, you are a idiot if you voted for the idiot-in-chief. And I do have respect for the office of President, just not the current ass we have in there. Don't really care if you voted for him either! We have a divided government where no one party or branch of the government can become too strong. Republicians control the House, so weahter you want to work with us or not I really don't care. If you cannot figure that out, then my answer if F' you all & let taxes go up on everyone!
As far as you, why not bend over reach around back with both of your hands & pull your face out of obamas ass & come up for air!
@Dave-You're part of the problem. Disagreeing with the Pres. proposals or policies is one thing but blatantly disrespectful spewing about our Pres. only makes you NOT credible.
Hey, it's all good.
It used to be that America was tired of liberal butchering.
Now, it seems they want their own throats cut.
We conservatives will just sit this one out.
It will be painful for us all.
But in the end, we will be the ones gloating, not libs.