I don't think they have the personal strength to stand up to LW, RW and lobbyists. I'll tell you what though - Mitch McConnell is the joke. GO TO THE MIDDLE!

It seems like President Obama is the only working.

All we heard out of the Dems was how bad the Bush tax cuts were.

Now they want to extend them.

LOL.

Yes, pass the tax cut extension for the 98%. Then we can negotiate on tax rates for 250k and up. I promise, even though the 250k rates will return to the Clinton levels which is where I want them to be and no action at all will be required of me and my fellow Dems to keep these rates there. I promise to negotiate these rates down in good faith. While you're at it, could you please do away with that pesky debt ceiling thing, so we don't need to be burdened by that negotiation either?

Good Grief! Its amazing the foolishness our politicians wast their time with. Sit down with one another at the same table and engage in some real compromise.

Let the Republicans go on the record as being against making the temporary tax cut permanent

Who do you think initiated the tax cuts to begin with? Why don't you people educate yourselves on the actual reason the republicans are opposing Obama's proposal, not the temporary tax cuts. The portion of Obama's proposal they oppose is this: “In the wake of another weak jobs report, the president is doubling down on his quixotic call for the same small businesses tax hikes that have been routinely rejected by the House and Senate. How will these small business tax hikes create jobs?”

Taxing small business is the reason for the opposition.....FACTS matter! The reason our country is so screwed up and people are so angry is because of the "spin" put on the reasons someone opposes the democratic party. If the democratic party were more interested in uniting this country and helping it's working class as much as they are helping the non-working class, then Congress would be able to get a lot more done. Obama said he was going to reach across the aisle and work with republicans once he was re-elected.....the only thing he's doing is slamming his fist on the table and demanding everything be his way!!!! We need a leader, not a dictator.....I believe the best for both sides would be to move more to the middle on tax cuts as well as spending. Obama and the democrats are being just as stubborn as the Republicans yet are not being held accountable for their lack of cooperation.

All we heard out of the Dems was how bad the Bush tax cuts were.

Yes. They made a mess of things and increased the deficit. Then when the economy went to hell, there was nothing to cut to make a stimulus. Bush cut taxes during a profitable time (mostly on those that didn't need it). So when the time came to need extra money in the economy, there was little to put out there. So we borrowed more.

There's more to economics than a bumper sticker saying.

Republicans say Democrats have countered with calls for more stimulus, a package of additional spending and permanently raising the borrowing limit, while postponing talks about reforming entitlements or cutting spending.

so, we do not want to cut spending, we want to spend more on stimulus, refi underwater mortgages to those who should not have had the home in the first place. blame the banks, I blame the people, They knew they could not afford that house, so now we all are reducing their debt so they can manage, anyone reducing your debt so you can manage. No, I pay for my own house, I bought what I could afford. Cuts in medicare are being offset with more stimulus spending. research it folks and you will find out the truth of why the republicans are not moving foward. Its Obama's way or the highway. spend spend spend. Thats bipartisan huh?........

Let all the taxes go up! The hardest hit will be the upper income earners anyway.. even though the impact will not be life changing for them. They will just have to put less money in their tax dodging schemes or pay for better accountants to break even. If you are one of the lower wage earners in this country and already know that tax cut will not be there when you do your taxes, it is up to you to adjust to the times. But the president should hold his ground on this and tell all Americans that if the republicans don't want to play ball then the responsible thing is that we all share in the sacrifice rather then continue on this pixie dust ferry tale that low taxes on the rich some how create jobs

So, in an effort to convince Congress (in Washington DC) to go along with his plan, the President is in Philadelphia?

American Girl, it's the Dems that are saying my way or the highway. The offers the Dems are making only contain tax increases and more spending. You can tax the top 10% into oblivian and the math will still not support the Dem's spending addition. Until the Dems are willing to reduce gov't spending, our country is doomed.

And would you fall for someone saying give me what I want now, and then we'll talk about what you want later. You'd be furious if the Reps said give us reductions in spending and we'll talk about revenue increase later, yet its just fine for the Dems to do it.

Then he is on his way to Hawaii for a 4 million dollar vacation right before the fiscal cliff.

No one sided measures like raise taxes now and figure out cuts later...make it all or nothing....the President is clear on what he wants in taxes...keep the cuts for the middle class and raise taxes on the rich! Does anyone know what cuts are definitely being offered...are ANY definitely being offered...any at all. If so what are they????

The tax hike is clear, detailed and definite...what and where are the cuts?????

CoCo: Unfortunately, the Bushes did NOT always stay at Camp David....they were in Texas more than they were in the White House. As for the Kennedy's, they went to the Cape for their holidays....a big family affair. You need to research your comments before you make them....

As for the Secret Service and the Bushes saying they wanted them to have more time with their families....it doesn't matter WHERE the president and his family are during the holidays....the Secret Service still has to be there 24/7! How do you expect our president and his family to travel.....regular flights? If so, they would have to have even MORE Secret Service agents and would entirely disrupt air travel for many others! Can you please use your brains for more than just filling up your head?

Seriously???

Job1, the president pays the comercial airfare for Airforce1 to take him anywhere. I'll take that deal. Where do I sign up?

We are in for change that many probably never thought they would see in their lifetime, and with the leadership in place, steering America away from our roots, they are changing the future for generations to come. We will look back and remember what it was like when America was the true land of opportunity.

So you prefer a country without a middle-class. Sorry, but most folks will not support the ideology of a two-class system .. the uber-wealthy and the poor. We got a taste of the middle-class, and most Americans will fight like heck to keep it. By the way, the rise of the middle-class occurred in most all our lifetimes. What is changed is the demise of the middle-class. That is a new phenom started with Reagan, halted during the Clinton years, and started again under Bush. Thankfully, Obama sees the importance of the middle-class and is dedicated to protecting it.

Like most I have no objection to the tax increases, but I really have a problem with President Obama wanting an unlimited credit card on my dime.

If taxes go up in January it is Obama's fault and Obama's fault alone.

Utter BS - the tax cuts expire at year end. Obama want's to avoid a tax increase on the middle-class. The GOPTP are the ones refusing to cut taxes on the middle-class without a bunch of special little rules.

SeekingSanity,

President Obama ran on hope and change.

The President is talking about an increase in tax revenue of 1.6 trillion dollars. Where do you think that is going to come from? From reports I have read, if you taxed the top 2% at 100% you would have about 1 trillion dollars. Why do we need all of this tax revenue?

RedDevPS, Obama doesn't see the importance of a middle class. He sees the importance of people dependent on the government, so they vote for him and the rest of the dems to keep their gravy train rolling. It won't take very many more deciding that they'd rather live off the government than work before it will all collapse.

How many trillion are we in debt again?

Don't worry the babies will pay it back, screw em they cant vote yet anyway.

You mean if I take all the "rich "peoples money its not enough to cover the deficit for one year?

I refuse to think of it as a spending problem, we are just not borrowing enough, if congress wont I will borrow as much as it takes to buy your vote. Don't worry SF's nothing will stand in the way of your gifts the best is yet to come.

How can you face the children?

History repeats itself. Bush 1 broke his "read my lips" pledge to give tax increases for Cuts "to be determined later". The cuts never materialized. I'm sure those who boxed themselves in with similar no tax pledges are concerned about suffering the same fate if the break them.

My concern is the President has just come out and essentially said he is not really concerend with meaningful deficit reduction.

So going over the cliff may be the only way to achieve it.

The problem is, the tax increases on the middle class are really ill timed.

If the GOP was not hemmed in by a pledge to one man, they could say "Mr President, we will agree to 100% of your revenue plan if you agreed now - in advance (and implement in advance) a 2$ cut for each 1$ of new spending" Cut every program the same percentage - no exceptions.

Yawn, it's obvious that the Republicans will be responsible for any failure, and Obama for any success no matter what happens. It's been going on for 4 years ..exept there's been no success...lol Pathetic.

President Obama please make sure that you Sequester CONGRESS & the SENATE when it comes Christmas Break Time..... Do not allow Congress or the Senate to leave until a deal is brokered.....

He sees the importance of people dependent on the government, so they vote for him and the rest of the dems to keep their gravy train rolling.

My, oh, my. It sounds like someone voted for Romney and is bitter because they didn't get their box of free stuff in the mail. Well guess, I voted for Obama and I didn't get free stuff either. But hey, go ahead and keep repeating the myth. Notice, that line hasn't worked to well for the GOPTP since election day. All it has pointed out is your party is full of bitter bitties.

The repubs voted for this hoping to win the election and then they wouldn't have to deal with it. Well they lost and they do. That's too bad- We will get by a with all rates going up but they will never be happy with their precious defense cuts, that's too bad for them. Bring it on!!! What if we had this threatened recession and nobody showed up???

First, let's have the rightwingnutjobz leave Foxaganda world, enter the realms of fact-based reality, and use the universal rules of arithmetic (as per Pres. Clinton).

Many don't understand that Pres. Obama can fetch up $1.6 trillion in new Federal revenues during the next 10 years in several ways. Here are a couple: 1) Let the current 2% tax relief expire, which means FICA deductions go back up to 6.2%, and 2) let the tax breaks for those who earn more than $200,000 filing single or $250,000 filing joint expire. No. 1 raises $115 billion per year and the No. 2 raises about $52 billion annually, and those numbers over the course of a decade generate $1.67 trillion in Treasury revenues. See . . . it's just like magic which means the Boehner & McConnell cannot comprehend the result.

Rick Newman at "US News and World Report" explains the entire possible process here:

What a concept? How brilliant? Who could have ever known about this in the Republican Party? It's a miracle, Vern. An Obama-based miracle. And there are several ways to do this! Oh my goodness!

if the Reps fail to keep him from taking us to total Socialism.

When you you understand what socialism is - feel free to get back on the boards for comment. Until then, try getting an education.

OHGuy --

Just so you know -- Congress consists of the House of Representatives and the Senate. Try to keep it in mind for next time you need to refer to one or the other, or both.

Might be a good idea to lock them in, though.

Where does it say that the 1.6 trillion dollars in revenues is over any period of time?

I must have missed that some place.

If President Obama is such a supporter of the middle class how come it is even lower now then when he took office?

RedDevPS

When you you understand what socialism is - feel free to get back on the boards for comment. Until then, try getting an education.

Obama follow the doctrine of Social Democracy , this is a kind of socialism contemporary. Social democrats support a welfare state and unemployment insurance as a means to "humanize" capitalism. Social Democracy emphasises a program of gradual legislative reform of capitalism in order to make it more equitable and humane, while the theoretical end goal of building a socialist society is either completely forgotten or redefined in a pro-capitalist way.

ok i found it.

I still do not see how with what is proposed we are any where close to a balanced budget.

Boehner keeps complaining he wants specific spending cuts, with a focus on entitlements despite the fact he was given what President Obama and Democrats proposed.

Boehner and the GOP are demanding spending cuts. Why is it the GOP has proposed ZERO specific spending cuts? Their proposals are as vague as Romney's big plan: cut entitlements, cut spending--hardly a serious proposal from them while they demand specifics from the White House and democrats. The truth is this: Speaker Boehner and his GOP crowd talks the talk but FEARS to walk the walk.

The GOP want, & have always wanted, to privatize and end medicare (they voted for the Ryan Budgets 1.0 and 2.0 to do just that) yet this is the same crowd that then campaigned claiming President Obama cut medicare ?? The polls clearly show that 72% of Americans want medicare left alone, 68% of Republicans say the same thing.

The GOP CANNOT and will NOT propose spending cuts to entitlements or anything else because they are too cowardly to take the political hit that would result. Speaker Boehner and his cowardly crew has decided to pull the wool over voters eyes by claiming it is the democrats who need to provide the cuts when by virtue of the GOP having the House majority with Boehner as speaker, it is the GOP's job to provide the specifics of the spending cuts they want and present those to President Obama and democrats.

Here's a thought Speaker Boehner: How about some detailed specifics from your side regarding spending cuts? Which tax loopholes will the GOP close? Which deductions will the GOP eliminate? What entitlement cuts will the GOP demand? So far no answers just try to misinform & continue to bash the President who at least has a budget for the GOP fools to bash.

Wurmanx. That 1.67 trillion over 10 years sounds great doesn't it? Except that the government borrows that much every YEAR! So over 10 years, we'll bring in enough revenue to cover 1 year. What about the remaining multiple trillions we'll still be losing over that period? If the GOP totally gives in and does everything the President wants, we're still digging a hole that gets harder and harder to climb out of as we go.

So Obama wants $1.6 Trillion in new taxes, but no cuts in spending.

That's a 'non-starter'. I guess he has decided to play chicken, but the sooner we have 'austerity', the sooner we start addressing the debt problem, and the better we will be in the long run.

The Republicans should just let ALL of the tax cuts revert to what they were under Clinton - when everyone said they were 'fair'. The nice thing about this approach is that it only requires that the President and Congress do what they do best - NOTHING.

Of course, that will make Obama's recession last about as long as the Great Depression under FDR.

same old caa caa from Obama...nothing new here...the Republican's have agreed to make some concessions on tax increases; as long as Obama and company agree to make some concessions about budget cuts...but no; Obama will not negotiate...he's not keeping the American people's best interest at heart, as usual.

Just when you thought the President couldn't get any more petty.....

Oh, and if you want the tax rates to be in line with the Clinton administration - fine. Only when we have government spending in line with the Clinton years also.

ManOWords "Here's a thought Speaker Boehner: How about some detailed specifics from your side regarding spending cuts?"

How about the same from Obama? Obama always wants someone else to make the hard choices, so he can criticize them - he's so predictable. Perhaps it's time that someone reminded him that he needs to LEAD, since the campaign is now over.

Obama thinks he has a 'mandate' to tax and spend, but the Republicans think they have a 'mandate' to address the debt - And they won the House on that basis. More stalemate - but I guess that's what the people voted for.

LMAO mr. obama...

they agreed with a balanced approach to deficit reduction and making sure that middle-class taxes don't go up.”

What is "balanced" when you don't offer up specific spending cuts as well? Throughout your re-election campaign you talked about "balanced" and "fair". Come on Mr obama tell us what cuts in federal spending are you proposing to maintain balance? Will you tell senate leader reid to submit a budget per the 1974 budget reform act?

Come on obama, spell it out, give us your numbers om cuts, we know what you want in increased revenues. Amazing that the FR SFB lefties aren't taking you and ol' harry to task for not being specific when they alaways wanted to hamer tyhe right on their specifics. Maybe you can get ol' joe to say that your plan is nothing but malarkey...

ManOWords

Why is it the GOP has proposed ZERO specific spending cuts?

WRONG AGAIN>....get it straight and come out of the fog....

GOP BUDGET CUT LIST from over 1000 days without a budget...

Flood Control and Coastal Emergencies -$30M • Energy Efficiency and Renewable
Energy -$899M • Electricity Delivery and Energy Reliability -$49M • Nuclear
Energy -$169M • Fossil Energy Research -$31M • Clean Coal Technology -$18M •
Strategic Petroleum Reserve -$15M • Energy Information Administration -$34M •
Office of Science -$1.1B • Power Marketing Administrations -$52M • Department
of Treasury -$268M • Internal Revenue Service -$593M • Treasury Forfeiture Fund
-$338M • GSA Federal Buildings Fund -$1.7B • ONDCP -$69M • International Trade
Administration -$93M • Economic Development Assistance -$16M • Minority
Business Development Agency -$2M • National Institute of Standards and
Technology -$186M • NOAA -$336M • National Drug Intelligence Center -$11M • Law
Enforcement Wireless Communications -$52M • US Marshals Service -$10M • FBI
-$74M • State and Local Law Enforcement Assistance -$256M • Juvenile Justice
-$2.3M • COPS -$600M • NASA -$379M • NSF -$139M • Legal Services Corporation
-$75M • EPA -$1.6B • Food Safety and Inspection Services -$53M • Farm Service
Agency -$201M • Agriculture Research -$246M • Natural Resource Conservation
Service -$46M • Rural Development Programs -$237M • WIC -$758M • International
Food Aid grants -$544M • FDA -$220M • Land and Water Conservation Fund -$348M •
National Archives and Record Service -$20M • DOE Loan Guarantee Authority
-$1.4B • EPA ENERGY STAR -$7.4M • EPA GHG Reporting Registry -$9M • USGS -$27M
• EPA Cap and Trade Technical Assistance -$5M • EPA State and Local Air Quality
Management -$25M • Fish and Wildlife Service -$72M • Smithsonian -$7.3M •
National Park Service -$51M • Clean Water State Revolving Fund -$700M •
Drinking Water State Revolving Fund -$250M • EPA Brownfields -$48M • Forest
Service -$38M • National Endowment for the Arts -$6M • National Endowment for
the Humanities -$6M • Job Training Programs -$2B • Community Health Centers
-$1.3B • Maternal and Child Health Block Grants -$210M • Family Planning -$327M
• Poison Control Centers -$27M • CDC -$755M • NIH -$1B • Substance Abuse and
Mental Health Services -$96M • LIHEAP Contingency fund -$400M • Community
Services Block Grant -$405M • High Speed Rail -$1B • FAA Next Gen -$234M •
Amtrak -$224M • HUD Community Development Fund -$530M

Sorry to burst your bubble dude....

So many angry hateful democrats. Wow. The insults are really beneath all of us. I am all for letting us go over that cliff. The only fair tax increase is an increase on ALL. It never ceases to amaze me how easy it is to take a position that someone else (those making over $200K / $250K) needs to take more. Let the taxes go up on everyone. I'm game for that.

wurmanx

First, let's have the rightwingnutjobz leave Foxaganda world, enter the realms of fact-based reality, and use the universal rules of arithmetic (as per Pres. Clinton).

Many don't understand that Pres. Obama can fetch up $1.6 trillion in new Federal revenues during the next 10 years in several ways. Here are a couple: 1) Let the current 2% tax relief expire, which means FICA deductions go back up to 6.2%, No. 1 raises $115 billion per year.

The only thik you must cosider, the 2 % tax releif is money that should go to social security and medicare not for federal revenue, it is easy use our money and never pay back.Governemet is destroying SS and Medicare , defunding those programs, so forget about that, find another way.

Roy wilson...

I guess obama still thinks that compromise still only means "my way or the highway". Bet the FR SFB lefties think that by the time obama leaves office he will almost have doubled our national debt all by himself. Absolutely amazing that he will spend as much as all the past administrations put together.

What is really sad is that he is trying to sell us on the idea that raising the tax rates on only the wealthy will balance out his spending and "investing" plus reduce our national debt.

Job1

The President can go any where he wants without your okay. He also pays for his own vacations and that is a fact.

Really? If I tried paying $4,000,000 on a 2011 income of $789,000 I would be laughed at.

Hawaii? The Economy's in the sh!thole, Congress can't make a decision, and the Country's about to go off a 'fiscal-cliff'. So of Course you plan a nearly 3 week 4 million dollar vacation on the tax-payers dime at exactly the same time!!!??? WTF Obama?!!

The real problem here is the Fox news watchers on one side....and the people that watch and read REAL news sources discussing and presenting REAL facts and stories.

starsailing

The real problem here is the Fox news watchers on one side....and the people that watch and read REAL news sources discussing and presenting REAL facts and stories........like MSNBC.( Sarcasm)

@StarSailing

Thats the REAL problem...?? So if people didn't watch Fox then Congress would be able to make a decision? Great thinking... You should be up there with the rest of the idiots in Washington.

AMERICAN GIRL, you are quickly making "American girl" dirty words! Your propensity to spew liberal hate is at the least not very feminine, and at worst not very American! Grow up! Stop the hatred and start trying to help your party and your country solve some of our problems. Get in the game! Your brand of class warfair and political hate-speak is a large part of this country's problem. Our leaders are having a tough time getting past party politics and petty hatreds left over from the campaign, but we are not helping them by engaging in our own little outbursts of hatred for "the other side."

I am sorry to speak so bluntly to you but surely you don't mean all the negative things you say, and maybe you don't realize you sound so shrill.

Great one Earl... Conservatives are losers...Never heard that one before.

You don't need to watch FOX to know that running a deficit of a trillion more than any other President...ever, every year of your Presidency is stupid....or do you...?

You guys lambasted Romney for not having details and for having a plan that didn't add up...Where's the outrage at Obama for, well, not having details and having a plan that doesn't add up...?

Atta BOY Earl, You showed us!!!!

Oh wait. I have a job and I actually read MSNBC, thus I am on here like other conservatives!!!

Name calling like a third grader and you call us losers!!! Buy a mirror!!

Do you actually read what you write??? Cuz, we ain't never head tell o what you said bafor!!!

Obama wants to end Congress' control of the debt ceiling, and have full power to raise it himself, whenever he wants. Uh, read the constitution Mr Would-Be Emporer; it pretty much defines the responsibilities of the three branches of the government, and yours is not to make the law, only to administer it. However, I guess it would be really cool if you could borrow at will to buy all of those entitlement goodies for the losers who voted for you, huh?

Just keep believing Obama SUCKERS!!!! All you have to do is take a look at his continuing "Big Government FEMA" mess in New York after Sandy.

Does "No red tape" translate to "Nothing but hot air" in the Socialist Handbook?

This guy does less with more than Rex Ryan.

Forest Gump said "stupid is as stupid does" little does the people of America realize how much this applies to them. The public school system in this country should be abolished. It started out with the right idea but was then infiltrated by the leftist liberals who would and are trying to destroy America. The United States of America was originally a Constitutional Republic, and the Constitution spells out very plainly what powers the government has, which is actually quite few. We have grown into a Social Democracy, with the shroud of freedom of actually having representatives. And Social Democracies are all well and good so long as you are in the majority. If you are in a minority, your rights are in danger. In a Constitutional Republic, the minorities rights are protected. The US is the world's oldest Federation. However, the best answer came from old Ben Franklin himself, when asked.
Sir what form of Government have you given us? ...Why a Republic ma'am.

Any who state that we are a Democracy; they are indoctrinated to believe that. History dose clearly show that a Democracy is among the most despotic forms of government, with the Roman Empire serving as the most prolific example.

If a teacher tells you ours is a Democracy, they should not be teaching American history. If a politician tells you this, they should never be in-trusted any government position.

The democratic party used to be by the people for the people but it has since become the government controling the people. I will not associate with either party because they both have become corrupt and overrun with the rich and powerful in the world who dictates to them how it is going to be or else. I say this " If you will give me ten of the richest people in the worlds money I could own any country I wanted to. Today it is all about the money, everyone is for sale to the highest bidder, from the poorest to the richest, they are for sale. Granted the only way a rich person can be bought is to offer them power, but so what, right, after all you are out to become ruler of the world. The only thing standing in the way of a world ruler is, well, nothing. Obama's democratic party has spent more money to buy his election than ever before. Now they are spending your money and it will destroy America. I never thought Americans could be so stupid to not realize that the Obama democrats are giving away your money that you do not have, as a matter of fact if all of the governments and creditors where to call in their loans, it is no doubt that America as we know it, would be gone. Every government entity would have to be shut down. There would be no military. They will not tell you that in reality America is eighty six trillion dollars in debt. Actually I believe America has already crossed the threshold of no return. The doomday clock for America has passed twelve oclock. If thye were to confiscate every thing every American owned and every dollar Americans had it still would not enough.

@American Girl So to you, "get serious" means cave in and not show any conviction in reducing the deficit?

The democrats are the ones who are insisting on raising taxes on the rich and not cutting spending. How is that any less "my way or the highway"?

And yes, the American people have spoken. That's why the GOP still has a house majority.

It is obvious that Obama doesn't want to address the crisis. In fact, I doubt if he sees a crisis. He's right where he wants to be and the dems have outfoxed the repubs. The House has passed bills to keep the middle class from having their taxes raised and the Senate won't consider them because the successful people in this country aren't punished enough. That aside, by doing nothing, Obama gets what he wants: Higher taxes and reduced defense spending! The higher taxes will hurt the economy which will make more people dependent on government, just what he wants. So, it will be up to the repubs to grow a backbone and not play the dems silly games. There are no negotiations going on. There is no plan for the dems to agree to anything that is short of a capitulation by the repubs. The only way for the repubs and the country to be better off is if the repubs stand up to the dems and call them for what they are. But, I won't hold my breath that it will happen.

good grief... do you neo-cons ever get tired of whining? Well guess what? President Obama was re-elected, and for another 4 years and a month there ain't nothing you can do about it. You can bitch, whine and call names all you want but it won't change a thing. You know what will change things though? In 2014 whenever US progressives kick the majority of the remainder of your limp richards right out the door. It's gonna happen too... wait and see. You guys sell yourselves out entirely too cheaply, thanks to Faux News spews, Lush Rimballs and all that ilk you listen to. The rest of us are quite tired of your empty-headed, shallow bs.

Thanks for a 'nothing but hate' entry PRober....we'll see huh?

Social Security and Medicare shouldn't even be on the table for any cuts! .. these are 2 programs every working Legal American Citizen pays into and the Government should never have touched any of the money WE paid in to them at all!

Remember, not only did you contribute to Social Security but your employer did too. It totaled 15% of your income before taxes. If you averaged only $30K over your working life, that's close to $220,500.

If you calculate the future value of $4,500 per year (yours & your employer's contribution) at a simple 5% (less than what the govt. pays on the money that it borrows), after 49 years of working you'd have $892,919.98.

If you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive $26,787.60 per year and it would last better than 30 years (until you're 95 if you retire at age 65) and that's with no interest paid on that final amount on deposit! If you bought an annuity and it paid 4% per year, you'd have a lifetime income of $2,976.40 per month.

The folks in Washington have pulled off a bigger Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madhoff ever had.

Entitlement my ass, I paid cash for my social security insurance!!!! Just because the Government borrowed the money, doesn't make my benefits some kind of charity or handout!!

Congressional benefits ---- free healthcare, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days, now that's welfare, and they have the nerve to call my social security retirement entitlements?

We're "broke" and can't help our own Seniors, Veterans, Orphans, Homeless

In the past few years we have provided aid to Haiti, Chile, Turkey. And Pakistan just to name a few. Literally, BILLIONS of TAX PAYER'S DOLLARS!!!

Our retired seniors living on a 'fixed income' receive no aid nor do they get any breaks while our government and religious organizations pour Hundreds of Billions of $$$$$$'s and Tons of Food to Foreign Countries!

What we need is Congressional Reform

1. No Tenure / No Pension. A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.

2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people, Obamacare which they have all decided they are exempt from.

6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/13.

8. All members of Congress will serve a maximum of 2 terms, if the President can only serve 2 terms than so should members of Congress.

The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.

storm36

Social Security and Medicare shouldn't even be on the table for any cuts! .. these are 2 programs every working Legal American Citizen pays into

Look again storm...see you in reality.

witchrunner

"...the successful people in this country haven't been punished enough..."!? What fantasy country are you talking about? The rich have seen their share of this country's wealth grow enormously in the last half decade. How are they being punished?

Perhaps you are one of those "successful" people so willing to denigrate your fellow Americans as "victims" "lazy" "takers" just like your presidential candidate who LOST because he has the same piss poor attitude. News flash: most poor people work and therefore deserve respect!

FYI I was desperately poor when my children were young but worked hard, went back to school, and now 20 years later make six figures...and pay plenty in taxes. I'm HAPPY to make an income that requires me to give back to this great country.

Shame on the selfish greedy arrogant rich who tried to buy the election for Romney. So glad it didn't work.

What a great president we have. Give him what he wants to turn the country around. Once he brings the country to its knees, we can start over where people who do not want to work and better themselves, can starve in the streets. Once we see this share the wealth trash really does not work, we can get back to a working country.

America is in $16 trillion of debt. If America accumulates too much debt, our economy will crash, just like Greece's. Look at Germany in the 1920's- They had massive debt, super high inflation, and political violence everywhere. The Communists and Fascists were fighting for control in Germany. Both sides were bad, and I'm pretty sure that Germany would have a Dictator in power either way. Do you really want to see a Radical leader rise to power here in America? Do you want the OWS protesters going absolutely crazy (They are already crazy, but they would be even more crazy with an economic crash) trying to get a radical leader into power? And, just like the 1920's Germany, Greece is starting to have extreme political movements. Greeks are either turning to fascism or communism.

What a bunch of delusional radical RWNJs are here tonight.

Complaining about a deficit they created and trying to blame someone else for their stupidity is the norm for those RRWNJs. Off the cliff with them!

CHART OF THE DAY: Reminder, The Deficit You're Freaking Out About Is Bush's Fault

lol...still Bush's fault after almost 5 years, the comedy never ends with this group of losers...get a grip.

I have rarely read so much garbage and hatred in a set of comments than I am reading in this column. There appears to be neither honest policy attributes nor personal opinion solutions from either side of the political spectrum. The hatred is as strong and as one sided as it was at the height of the voting and it is continuing with the insane scream, you on the other side must compromise and give My side everything we want , however illogical it appears Unfortunately in my opinion we will have to fall over the so called fiscal cliff and go back to the pre-Bush economy and it's tax structure. Then,maybe we can get this government to work together and start to solve this serious economic disaster that we are in. Entitlements will not be confused with tax gifts.,and taxes will be ,or should be a fair burden to all.

Row Wilson - You live in a fricken bubble......Austerity measures worked so well for the European Union.....You know that is what Europe did to fix the debt crisis...right? You know it made it worse......right? What is wrong with you? It has been going on in recent history....How do you not know this?

@"Laker Steve

All we heard out of the Dems was how bad the Bush tax cuts were.

Now they want to extend them.

LOL."

What's so funny? The fact that you can't read? Its to extend the tax cuts for the middle class, those that make less that 250,000. Please try to at least read the entire story before opening mouth. Oh and trying to comprehend what you're reading would probably help also.

Has any of O'bama's advisers told him that the campaign is over?

pragmatist: Not sure where your quote came from, but not from my post. Anyway, as I've said, the House has already passed legislation that will keep the middle class tax rates from rising. Obama and the dems object because it also prevents the tax rates of the "rich" from rising. Now, it is really quite simple. If the objective is to prevent the tax rates from rising for the middle class, then all the Senate has to do is pass the bill that the House has passed and for Obama to sign it. But, they are MORE interested in raising taxes on the "rich." It tells you where there priorities are. When you add the fact that raising taxes on the rich won't make a dent in the deficit (it'll fund the federal bureaucracy for 8 1/2 days), then you have to wonder why they don't want to help the middle class by passing the bill. They'd rather hold the 98% hostage in hopes of scoring political points with their base. That's all they are interested in. This was the gist of Obama's campaign and the gist of his economic plan. Oh, and handing out condoms and birth control pills, don't want to forget that. The rest of Obama's proposal has already been shot down by the repubs and dems in Congress. After all the spending that has produced nothing, he wants to spend more money to produce nothing. In reality, the "fiscal cliff" is the deficit. And Obama has done nothing to address that. He has made no proposals to cut spending.

I guess I'm amazed that so many people think 23 million Americans looking for a job is "doing a great job for America."

But, the sad fact is that when you have an administration and it's flock who think that taking money out of the hands of the people who employ people is the way to get them to employ more, well, there's no talking logic with them.

As for the wealth increasing? In reality, it's just an artificial paper wealth and it isn't real. The fed pumped a bunch of money into the markets through QE1, QE2, and QE3 (just in time to boost things before the election). That won't hold unless they continue to pump the money in. And, of course, that is nothing buy a hidden tax that we all have seen through inflation and, if it continues, through loss of credibility in the world market. There are a lot of our enemies who are biting at the chops to see the day that the US Dollar is no longer the international currency. Heck, Obama agrees with that, and yes he did say that. The day that happens is the day this country is going to be in a lot of hurt. But, I realize that that is an issue that very few understand or care about, at least before the time comes.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!

How appropriate.

Our adolescent president playing in a factory that makes tinkertoys as our economy teeters on the brink of collapse because of his 4 years of incompetence.

And of course he's too ashamed to present his "plan", so he sends his lackey Timmy "Turbo Tax" Geithner to do it. This embarrassment of a president submits an embarrassment of a fiscal plan to the hard working American people. Obviously this is a rogue plan to feel out where the responsible party, the Republicans, are.

No one in their right mind can believe this is the real plan that we have been told for four years that Barrack Hussein has been "focused like a laser" on. If this is the best this buffoon can come up with we may as well just call Standard and Poor's, Moody's and Fitch and tell them to just downgrade us a few notches like Barrack caused last year. The world is laughing at our community organizer again.

Of course the limp-wristed Liberals/Progressives wouldn't know a good plan if it slapped them upside the head. How can they? This dysfunctional administration hasn't passed a budget in 1,308 days. But the Libbies obviously don't need a budget. Why would anyone need a budget to run the largest economy in the history of the world? A budget would interfere with things like golf, vacations and flying around in AF1.

$160 trillion in tax increases on the rich. This will pay for 16 days of spending annually or 40 days of borrowing. What do we do about the other 349 or 325 days respectively? Well, it doesn't really matter to Barrack Hussein or the Liberal/Progressive.

This has nothing to do with fixing the economy. Nobody in their right mind can really believe that our statist community organizer wants to actually fix the economy. The more chaos he allows to continue the more he can convince the illiterate useful idiots that they need more and more government to take care of them. This is the Rahm Emanuel School of "never let a good crisis go to waste". And if you don't have a good crisis, create one.

Over four years 9 plans have been submitted by Republicans and bipartisan committees and of course Barrack Hussein can never seem to find any plans to work off of to cut any spending. I imagine if you even look at the embarrassments he presented as Budgets that no one, not even his own party gave a single vote for, might have a suggestion or two.

But that would require the Liberal/Progressive sacrosanct entitlements and social programs to be reformed. Barrack Hussein will never allow that. How can he keep the unwashed masses that keep voting for his class warfare and envy meme under his thumb? How can he keep promoting his mediocrity theme of indoctrinating the poor helpless masses that the best they can ever achieve is to be middle class? If they ever realized that America is still the land of opportunity he wouldn't be able to continue his lies and deflection of the issues.

It's a sad day when so many once good hard working Americans have been reduced to government bobbleheads dependent on a cartoon, "The Life of Julia", to get through life. This is how the Ivy League faculty-lounge Bourgeoisie want their electorate to behave, and they do. Their pride, ambition, self-esteem and independence have been stripped. They have been brainwashed into the proletariat cabal and have no one to lead them out.

We real Americans can fortunately see through this ruse and deception. Many of us still believe in equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. We see success as something to achieve not demonize. The rich don't scare us like they do the weak-minded Liberal/Progressives. We don't create one bogeyman after another like the military industrial complex, a mythical war on women, capitalism and the wealthy to blame everything on. The Liberal/Progressive failures in life are always someone else’s fault. It can never be their own mistakes, poor judgment, bad habits or defects in character.

So, it's probably best that our pathetic president hangs out in a toy factory, he can't do much more harm than he already has. Unfortunately we can't keep him occupied there for 4 more years and hope someone else makes the Draconian changes we really need to jump start our economy.

Maybe if we get him some dolls to play with he can "evolve" a little more and stay out of the way.

I left for a few days, came back today, same old comments. Will nothing ever change.

So funny how the rt wingers are whining with their trickle down on the middle class and poor policy...as if it ever worked....Report came out a few months ago proving it never worked and rebubs tried to hide and bury it.....The rich have it all by taking it all, and it is time for them to pay their fair share...period....boo hooo!

Rabble, rabble, rabble... The Libs rabble, rabble, rabble.. The Repubs rabble, rabble, rabble... All this posturing and posing and blaming the other side. Does it occur to any of the partisan types that the hole we have dug is both party's faults and neither is willing to spend the political capital to do the right thing. Neither will cut where cuts need to be cut, reform what needs to be reformed, and tax what we need to tax to pull ourselves out of the fiscal dilemma we are in now. It is political suicide that no one seems to have the courage to commit for the good of everyone. Partisan Republicans- You're party has been deliberately obstructionist and unbending. Partisan Democrats- The President and your party have not reached across the aisle with a real offer and, from my pedestrian point of view, President Obama has to shown neither leadership nor conciliation in an effort to resolve this. Screw the fiscal cliff... It's just a small part. It's time they actually fixed things instead of dealing crisis to crisis limiting their political risk at every turn.

Do any of you really believe that taxing a few rich people and cutting a few programs will bring us to solvency? They are all scared to do the right thing, for fear of losing their political standing, for this country and the country's future and that is pathetic. Quit quibbling with each other and start demanding that both sides stand up and do the right thing and don't complain when they remove your favorite government program and raise your taxes. We are at a point where it is time we pay down on the government we have allowed to happen the past 40 years or so.

Now arent you guys glad you voted to keep the House GOP in office so they can raise your taxes to protect the Rich? You should be jumping for joy. Maybe next time in 2014 when you have the chance to vote them out, YOU FREAKING DO SO!!

Blah, Blah, Blah!!! The Republicans (Boehner(or Boner as I call him)), will attempt to freeze everything again!!

They aren't decent Americans! They're the one's who think they are fighting still, against us!!! Do you believe it?? I do!!!

Boehner has been the death of America for the last 4 years!! He's the biggest pig and the one we will see fight for the White House in 2016..

He's the scum we won't see for 2 years until it's his time to come out..

I'm sick of him. He was bad for the USA the last 4 years. He's bad these 4 years too.

IF YOU ALL DON'T SMELL BOEHNER AS THE REPUBLICAN PROBLEM RIGHT NOW, YOU'RE IDIOTS AS DEMOCRATS!!

Boehner has never represented the majority of people who voted for Obama, forever!

Give him another shave of his eyebrows, and he's a total right wing weirdo..... SCAREY!!!!

Wake up America!! This Boehner dude is the USA's biggest problem in the next 5 years!!

Boehner always comes out with problems !! That's him, when it comes to a vote, Boehner will make sure that we all suffer.. He won't give in to the wishes of the USA electorate! He'll choose his own road and make ways for his own Party (Republicans) to make inroads to the Whitehouse by stalling Obama..

EVERYBODY, PLEASE WATCH BOEHNER! HE'LL BE THE PROBLEM AND THE TALKATIVE ONE!

HE'LL ALWAYS STIMY ANY GROWTH IN THE USA! GET HIM OUT!!! PLEASE!!!!!

When is Congress and the President going to really address taxes, spending and deficit? So far it has just been grandstanding with no real solutions.

America needs real solutions. Reduce spending by 5% and get rid of tax loop holes (personal and business).

Notice how serious Obama is about the fiscal cliff -- He went on a 20 day vacation to Hawaii.

Now arent you guys glad you voted to keep the failed president in office so he can raise your taxes to buy votes? You should be jumping for joy. Maybe next time in 2014 when you have the chance to vote them out, YOU FREAKING DO SO!!

K I Smart Simple

Notice how serious Obama is about the fiscal cliff -- He went on a 20 day vacation to Hawaii.

Wow, you do realize that the President does not decide how the American finances are done right? He can only approve or veto a bill from the House and Senate. He does not make the bills, thats the House and Senates Job. And you can see what a nice job they are doing too. So if the President goes on a vacation to Hawaii, it has nothing to do with what the Senate (which has already passed a bill for the taxes on 98% of the people) or House does to avoid the fiscal cliff. Only Thing President Obama said was that he would veto any bill that does not include expiring the tax cuts for the folks making 250,000 or more. So, stop blaming the President because he is waiting for Congress to do their job.

DSmith-1497218

What a great president we have. Give him what he wants to turn the country around. Once he brings the country to its knees, we can start over where people who do not want to work and better themselves, can starve in the streets. Once we see this share the wealth trash really does not work, we can get back to a working country.

What doesn't work is that trickle down theory running down your leg. Rich are rich because they horde, middle class are the ones that spend. Makes sense to help them out and stop helping the already rich. We need to take away the welfare for the rich and give it to the poor.

K I Smart Simple

When is Congress and the President going to really address taxes, spending and deficit? So far it has just been grandstanding with no real solutions.

America needs real solutions. Reduce spending by 5% and get rid of tax loop holes (personal and business).

About the same time you learn how Congress works. The president does not decide taxes, he can only veto a bill that comes to his desk. Congress is the ones that make the bills. If you want to be upset at someone, Talk to your buddy Boehner and ask him why he is holding the American people hostage to get what he wants and not what the American people want and voted for.

K I Smart Simple

Notice how serious Obama is about the fiscal cliff -- He went on a 20 day vacation to Hawaii.

You should learn how it works. As kids we had school house rock to teach you how bills become a law. Today it seems the kids don't seem to know anything.

So just where is Obama's plan to cut HIS deficit? Just where is it? Seems to me he playing the blame game versus leading - a leader places a plan on the table and negotiates it to close... (Brenda you are wrong - the President presents his budget against his plan and Congress takes that into consideration and forms the budget - traditionally the President's party in Congress acts as his champions for his budget. So far Obama is too afraid of putting anything out there including foreign policy, budgets, energy plans, etc. He fears open criticism...)

And the first of you who say his plan is out there to tax the rich more - look at the facts. That will cover 8 DAYS of the deficit. 8 DAYS! Its time we face the deficit. Its time to cut entitlements and if the Democrats can't stomach that then the loss of the Bush Tax Cuts is what it takes to wake them up. (Did anyone notice its the Bush Tax Cuts that the Democrats are clinging to?).

Wake up folks its time to pay the bills. Wake up folks you elected the lack luster leader who increase the debt from $9T to $16T in just 4 years...now its time to pay for it.

I told Obama to go to the Toy Factory . . what better place to start early to Organize and Polarize the Children of our country??

Organize and Polarize . . Organize and Polarize . . it is the New American Way!!!!

Get Real...

So just where is Obama's plan to cut HIS deficit? Just where is it? Seems to me he playing the blame game versus leading - a leader places a plan on the table and negotiates it to close... (Brenda you are wrong - the President presents his budget against his plan and Congress takes that into consideration and forms the budget

Actually you are wrong. The President does not have to present anything. It is up to Congress to deal with the budget. They take into concideration what the President wants because he has the veto ability so they try to work with him to make a budget that will not be veto'd. That being said, if the President wants them to work it out and come to him after he tells them that the only thing he won't sign is a bill without the tax cuts expiring for the rich, then he can do that. School house rock dude

And the first of you who say his plan is out there to tax the rich more - look at the facts. That will cover 8 DAYS of the deficit. 8 DAYS! Its time we face the deficit. Its time to cut entitlements and if the Democrats can't stomach that then the loss of the Bush Tax Cuts is what it takes to wake them up. (Did anyone notice its the Bush Tax Cuts that the Democrats are clinging to?).

Umm, get your facts straight, his plan is for 1.6 Trillion. That will last a hell of a lot longer then 8 days. Keep up with the news and stop reading fox news or Rush. Oh by the way, have you noticed that fox news turned off their comment section? It was because they did not like the responses they where getting to their articles. That way they can say anything they want and nobody on the site dissagrees with them. LOL, and they claim biased media.

The guys is truly a joke.

Brenda, the 1.6 Trilliion is over 10 years. His deficit is over a Trillion each year. Do the math. If I give you a $100 and charge my customer $20 each year, how long before I break even? You're right, NEVER!

Marcus D

Limbaugh couldn't have said it better.

Dz1900 - Ok, tell me then what is the plan for the GOP that will last more then 8 days? They just want to shore up so loop holes and then take away everyone's social security, health benefits, medicare and medicade. Sorry, at least Obama is going in the right direction. Once he gets the rich to pay their fare share, then he will work on closing loopholes and finally entitlements. First though, the GOP has to give up on the tax increases for the rich. In fact, they are not increases, they are returning to pre Bush tax cuts. So give me a break and do the math yourself.

Marcus D

Limbaugh couldn't have said it better.

Who cares what a drug addict calling the kettle black says about anything?

Brenda while you are absolutely correct that all appropriation bills start in the House the President and the Senate MUST agree with the budget. This is the basis of negotiations. The House also has the right by the constitution to unfund any program that it does not agree with. That is where the power of the House is derived. So in effect if the president wants a program included in the budget and the House decides not to fund the program the program is in effect canceled. They may be able to negotiate a fix to the problem where both sides gain something and lose something. House can shut the government down if the President refuses to negotiate. Gingrich did it twice with Clinton. The results was the government learned to live within its means. Perfect not by a long shot but very effective.

Oh by the way that is also why the Speaker of the House is the most powerful position other than the President. The electorate gives this position to the party that has the most members in the House of Representatives or the person that can form a majority consensus within the House. There is no reason why the Speaker needs to abdicate his authority and power to the president. This is the exact reason why the founding fathers established the position of Speaker of the House or the common people's legislative body.

The 1% should pay more to help pay for "W's" two Unfunded Wars and Depression !!!!!!!

ProBusiness

Obama is the one putting conditions on keeping your tax rates the way they are. Republicans simply are saying let's not raise taxes right now and leave it alone. Obama is the one stating if he can't raise taxes on the wealthy then Obama will make sure taxes are raised on everybody. So it is Obama that has the option of either raising or not raising your taxes.

No; while Obama is setting conditions for the (top) tax rates, the Republicans aren't proposing to not raise taxes now. They are proposing to not raise taxes ever. Probusiness, I know that you probably know more about economics than I do (especially when talking about mathematical models and price elasticity), but you still have to understand that economics, while still based in social studies, is scientific; ergo, it's teachings should be based on empirical data and results, not ideological beliefs. I want you to explain in a non-ideological way how tax increases for roughly 1.5% of Americans and 3% of small businesses is essentially economic suicide. The proof that I've seen is that tax cuts are not a very effective means of economic stimulus. They might be good for long-term competitiveness, but that is only when tax rates are at an all-time high, like the 91% top rate during the Eisenhower years.

The Democratic Kennedy cut taxes, true, including the top tax rate of 91% (which was reduced to around 70%), and there was some degree of economic improvement in the job market. However, Kennedy was reducing taxes because the current tax rate had been designed to restrain wartime growth and maintain stability, avoiding a rapid cycle of booms and busts that would compromise the war effort in World War II. In addition, Kennedy was not advocating for a supply-side tax cut; he was focusing on the demand-side, adopting a Keynesian philosophy that advocating tax cuts (yes, I know Keynes endorsed tax cuts) and spending increases on demand and consumption, not supply and production. Kennedy also emphasized the positive economic effects of a deficit, which is an excellent counter-cyclical tool to fight off recessions and invest for future growth. Essentially, Kennedy cut taxes across the board to create growth while understanding that this would cause a deficit and that it would have to be complemented with spending increases to provide maximum effect, as tax cuts are generally ineffective due to the tendency that a portion of the benefits will be saved. Reagan, on the other hand, endorsed supply-side economics, which, while Keynesian in it's approach to cut taxes for economic growth, was emphasizing the supply part of the equation. Supply-side tax cuts only work when supply is particularly burdened by excess taxation and regulation, neither of which were prevalent in the early 2000s. While our economy's supply equation was reeling from general over-regulation and taxation in the 1970s, which was due to the stagflation caused by the Vietnam War and the oil crisis, those could have been more readily fixed with smarter reforms, such as tight monetary policy from the Fed coupled with reforms to the regulatory and tax code that encouraged investment and accounted for rising inflation but still had "barriers" against outsourcing and maintained the system's progressivity. Deregulation could have been focused on areas that needed it, and could have been done in a matter that did not give businesses too much leeway, lest they go crazy with fees and start making risky bets that would eventually tank the economy. Unfortunately, laissez-faire economics promotes MINIMAL instead of optimal government intervention in the economy, and so regulations were cut left and right and tax rates slashed dramatically, leading to a 30-year debt-fueled expansion that was coupled with the growth of an economic tumor known as the reckless and unchecked financial industry. As many economists note, middle class incomes did not increase that much under the Reagan expansion as had under previous expansions, and the ensuing recession caused by the savings and loans crisis eliminated ALL of the gains, not to mention rising costs for healthcare and college that were caused in part by lack of government supervision. Supply-side economics had it's chance and failed; unfortunately, this intellectual cancer is still bound to mainstream economic discussions. I don't want a Republican Party that thinks tax cuts are the panacea to everything or will shrivel away and leave America to one-party rule; I want a Republican Party that will keep my Democratic party on the edge; a significant counterweight that will compete with the Democrats, accept rationality and science, argue for as well as against government, and will realize that the needs of the many are as, if not more, important than the wishes of the few. Is that too much to ask??? Because if it is, than our country is as good as dead. That is all I want; that the Republican Party stop being the Party of Reagan and start being the Party of Reason. If a leftist progressive Democrat can find it in his heart to ask for a strong, robust, and moderate Republican Party, can't a conservative Republican like yourself find it in his or her heart to restore the GOP's sanity????

"…“Financial discipline” has become a demi-god, worshiped by all the mainstream parties. They have created their own mechanisms—the debt brake in Europe, the fiscal cliff in the US—to wipe out all of the past social gains of the working class. The profits of the banks and the assets of the rich are sacrosanct, while the social rights of hundreds of millions are trodden underfoot.

Capitalism reappears as described by Karl Marx: a brutal class society based on the exploitation of workers by the owners of capital, resulting in the enrichment of a few and impoverishment of the vast majority…"

Austerity without end

29 November 2012

The media has largely ignored the main message from Monday’s meeting of euro zone finance ministers: that the Greek people confront years, if not decades, of austerity.

In comparison, the issues headlined by the media—whether Greek debt falls below 120 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2020 or in 2022; whether lending rates are lowered or a debt haircut is imposed—were of a marginal and largely hypothetical nature. They boiled down to the question of how many food scraps one allows the victim, in order to exploit him as long as possible, before he eventually dies.

Despite their differences on a number of issues, the assembled finance ministers, IMF head Christine Lagarde and European Central Bank President Mario Draghi all agreed that Greece should be bled to the bone. If everything goes according to their plans, Greece will begin to produce a large budget surplus, every cent of which will go directly into the vaults of the international banks. Given the social devastation already caused by three years of austerity, it takes little imagination to grasp that this means the complete ruination of the country.

Greece is being subjected to a social experiment unlike anything known in Western countries since the Second World War. Comparable devastation is associated only with bloody military dictators such as Chile’s Pinochet or what took place following the collapse of the Soviet Union, i.e., the looting and destruction of an entire economy at the hands of criminal oligarchs.

Greece serves as a model for all of Europe, and, indeed, for the whole world. Having been bailed out with trillions from the public purse after plunging the world into crisis in 2008, the banks are insisting that these funds be recouped through massive cuts in wages and social conditions.

“Financial discipline” has become a demi-god, worshiped by all the mainstream parties. They have created their own mechanisms—the debt brake in Europe, the fiscal cliff in the US—to wipe out all of the past social gains of the working class. The profits of the banks and the assets of the rich are sacrosanct, while the social rights of hundreds of millions are trodden underfoot.

Capitalism reappears as described by Karl Marx: a brutal class society based on the exploitation of workers by the owners of capital, resulting in the enrichment of a few and impoverishment of the vast majority…

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/nov2012/pers-n29.shtml

Justoneguy,

Cannot stop the facts that about 8.5 trillion of the debt added in the last 11 years has been TOTALLY due to Bush's policies and actions or lack of actions. Bush and the repubs nearly doubled military spending, started 2 wars that have cost over $2 trillion dollars (the costlier of them unnecessary and based on falsehoods) and added many other defense-related costs after they failed to do anything to prevent the 9/11 attacks. In addition, Bush and the repubs passed Medicare D with absolutely NO funding and added that to a Medicare system that was already adding more to the deficit than any other social program. Bush and the repubs pushed through the nearly $1 trillion dollar bank bailout. Bush and the repubs did no significant spending cuts at all. Bush the repubs crucified the economony and federal budget and caused the recession before Obama was elected.

TO: argumentativebutfair who wrote:

"@American Girl So to you, "get serious" means cave in and not show any conviction in reducing the deficit?

The democrats are the ones who are insisting on raising taxes on the rich and not cutting spending...

And yes, the American people have spoken. That's why the GOP still has a house majority.

How do Republicans "seriously" expect to pay any bills without any money?

You can't pay down the deficit with tax cuts for the rich.

Maybe it's because Republicans have never paid any bills is why they can't understand how it's done.

If you've ever paid any bills in your life, either your phone bill or electric bill or whatever, you had pay that bill with money. You can't go in and say "Hey, I'll keep my bills down next time around" and expect them to accept a promise to "keep your bills lower next time" as "payment" on your account.

I guess you haven't been listening, but the President offered to cut $10 worth of spending for every $1 in revenue and Republicans rejected that proposal last year, now Republicans say that's the deal they want and the President ought to make proposals while Republican Congressmen say "yes" or "no" to the President of the United States.

Now don't let me interrupt Republicans celebrating their losses.