E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSFrom the beginning of the "fiscal cliff" negotiations, aides from both sides have said that November would be for saber rattling and December would be when a deal is put together between President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner with Majority Leader Harry Reid’s blessing.
House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, in a press conference on Thursday attacked President Obama and the White House for not taking firm action in avoiding the so-called "fiscal cliff."
Well, consider comments from Boehner and Reid today to be the November saber rattling reporters were warned about.
In his weekly press conference Boehner called out Obama and the Democrats.
"The president has warned us about the dangers of going over the fiscal cliff, but his actions have not matched his public statements,” said Boehner, who acknowledged speaking with the president Wednesday night and called it “very nice” but “direct.” “Members of his own party seem quite comfortable sending the economy over the fiscal cliff."
Boehner said that no “substantive process had been made over the last two weeks” and that he was “disappointed” with the current state of the fiscal cliff negotiations. He also chided Democrats for not offering, he says, serious spending cuts in exchange for his promise of some increased revenue.
Republican leaders say they've put revenues on the table, but are waiting on President Barack Obama to give, and offer something up on ballooning federal retirement programs like Medicare. Fortune Magazine's Carol Loomis discusses.
Speaking later in the day, Reid took this blunt shot at Boehner: “I don’t understand his brain.”
Reid called for Republicans to make “a serious offer” and indicated that Democrats would not act until they heard Republican demands on cuts to entitlements.
Along with raising tax rates, entitlements are also a major sticking point in the negotiations. Neither side wants to be the first to put their fingerprints on any specific entitlement cuts due to the risk of a major public backlash from seniors.
Asked by NBC News what specific cuts to entitlements the GOP would like to see, Boehner pointed to previous budgets passed by the House GOP and rejected by Democrats, but he declined to be precise in what he wanted out of these negotiations.
J. Scott Applewhite / AP
House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio gestures as he speaks to reporters on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, Nov. 29, 2012, after private talks with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on the fiscal cliff negotiations.
“It's been very clear over the last year and half,” Boehner contended. “I've spoken to the president about many of them. If you look at our budget, where we outline very specific proposals that we passed in last year's budget and the budget before, we know what the menu is; we don't know what the White House is willing to do to get serious about our debt crisis."
Boehner dismissed an assertion that the talks had broken down, but his tone was far from optimistic. Wall Street is hoping to see a deal reached, is paying close attention, and both sides are acutely aware of that.
In what could be another potential headache for the White House, Boehner did not back down on his 2011 position regarding raising the nation’s debt limit, saying, “Any increase in the debt limit must be accompanied by spending cuts."
White House Spokesman Jay Carney said he was “surprised” by Boehner’s debt limit comments.
Leave a Comment:
The Weeper of the House can rattle all the sabers he wants...
At the end of the day, he is NOT in the drivers seat, hell at this point he's lucky if he maintains his spot in the "side-car"!
Eric Cantor is waiting in the with his tire iron...
Harry gives Boehner far too much credit - his "brain" has been reduced to an alcohol soaked sponge!
I don't think anybody understands Boehner's brain! Cole offered a solution yesterday but today it appears it's Boehner's way or the highway .... I don't think he has a saber, just more of the same ol' whine we've heard from him time and time again. Pathetic.
*Sigh*. When are both sides going to figure out that WE THE PEOPLE are a little sick and tired of each side giving a daily briefing and whining about who's not doing this, and we are so wonderful, look at what we are doing, blah blah blah. Just get the GD thing @!$%#ing done! Can any of you tell I am sooooo over this @!$%#?
Asking the same group of folks to fix a situation that they created seems a bit insane to me.
Either raise everyone's taxes and cut spending or fall off the cliff.
It's the only fair way.
You liberals are right. Boehner and the Republicans are not in the driver's seat. They should walk away and let Hussein decide what to do. He won.
Maaaaaaybe, then, he will FINALLY admit that this is HIS economy.
Oscar--I agree 100%. He will then have to own it.
Sorry, if anyone is offended by my "Alaskan potty mouth". It roars its ugly head when I am unhappy! :)
Sorry, WCA at 1.3, I usually agree with you, butttttt.........although I was initially inclined to agree to some tax increases.....after some thought, I just can't go along with it. Giving the liberals more money through tax increases is like handing over a bottle of vodka to a drunk. Methinks they would just blow it all on more needless projects and payoffs to donors instead of really trying to lower our debt. Until they can prove that they will cut spending and lower our debt, I don't want to give them another single penny in taxes.
Buttttt.....the one point I agree with you WCA, is: if taxes HAVE to be raised , then let them be raised on everybody. Fair is fair. Not sure I agree with the liberal definition of "fair."
Ah those pesky details ... reminds me of those pesky details that Mitt refused to talk about. Damn that President, how can I place a bet if I can't see his hand!
I KNOW, bcwc.....pesky details. Reminds me of the "lack of" coming from Hussein......during BOTH campaigns. Ahhhhh, wait......what am I saying with "both campaigns" - - it is perpetual!!!
Oscar, need I remind you that this is OUR economy? Stop putting the entire blame on one side. Gee, I thought yesterday we were making a little friendly progress, but I see with your little "Hussein" comment, which, give me a break, is definitely a little "code" word that Republicans like to use as a way to infer that Obama bears likeness to that known, but very much dead, terrorist Sadaam Hussein. Yes, you use the excuse, "well it is his middle name". That is just the lamest and most ridiculous statement. I am trying my best to give you the benefit of the doubt, and once again willing to throw out the olive branch, but you gotta give me something to work with here! :)
Good morning Feisty, Layton and AlaskaGirl.
I suspect, the Speaker is trying to remain relevant to the conversation, as he, his idealogy and his party are further marginalized by more centrist and thoughtful persons in the House of Representatives. Neither he nor Eric Cantor will be in leadership positions for much longer if they continue to follow this same path.
It's time for new leadership with a clear vision for the future. A vision which does NOT "maintain the status quo". American citizens are demanding action made in the best interest of the entire country, and not just the privileged few. The Conservative leadership may choose to obstruct at their own peril. The 2014 mid-terms are coming and obstructionists will held accountable.
It's up to the house to propose legislation. The President doesn't write legislation. Why doesn't Boehner have a bill on the floor.
Alaska Girl,
Cheers from your Illinois potty mouth sistuh! ;o)
Well behaved women rarely make history...
*waves to JT*
Good to you, see my dear friend!
AlaskaGirl, I think you speak for most Americans, including big business, the banks, the senior citizens, and the Middleclass: Dear Congress, just get the !!%&*# thing done!
Well, @!$%#, in that case.........:)
On another note, I haven't looked around, but does anyone know if Annie was included as a guest while her hubby is dining with the president?
Hey JT!! What I am enjoying hearing, but may just be a bunch of crap noise, is that some Conservatives have been voicing that they are amenable to not raising taxes on the MC., but are willing to look at raising rates and/or cutting loop holes on the top 2%.
Oh, and hey, Conservatives, try and remember that keeping the rates where they are for the 98% also includes keeping the rates where they are for the 97% that are small businesses. Stop believing that companies like Hewlett-Packard and the like are small businesses.
Pretzel Logic
From the article above:
Nobody does.
Here's a clue, Congressman. You can talk all you want. Talk is cheap.
Keep pushing your Faux/Rush Talking BS 'til the cows come home. Most of America has had it with the right-wing media lying machine.
But come December 31st, when you still haven't compromised with Democrats; when you still blame Democrats, when you still claim you are the victim, and you still haven't reached an agreement, you can just kick back and toast the New Year with your Orange-flavored champagne.
Come January, congress will have a whole new make-over, and the John Boehner Obstructionist House of Representative will become a thing of the past.
Salud
“For mad I may be, but I will never be convenient.”
― Jennifer Donnelly, Revolution
Quotes from Strong Women
i'm hoping we go over the cliff. there will be some pain, but at that point, republicans will have no further power to continue their reign of terror on the rest of us - and that, will be worth the short term pain. then, and only then, will sanity to restored and the dems can go about fixing the messes created by republican ideologues.
Boehner has a big problem. He doesn't have the muscle to get Republican votes when he wants them, so he doesn't really have the power to make a deal. Tax rates on the wealthiest are going to increase one way or another - but the T-Bones seem to think they should get massive spending cuts in return for something that's going to happen automatically. I don't think so, and neither does Obama or Reid. Why don't they just extend the lower rates on income up to 250K? Are the Republicans intent upon holding the middle class hostage AGAIN?
AlaskaGirl, you are spot on! For those who don't like it, they can and should go to other blogs!
As for the Weeper......"Where are the Jobs"? Please provide an answer to the question that you yourself asked ad nauseous.......
Where are the jobs......that of course was only rhetorical, since you Mr. Weeper, had no intention of doing anything to help the American people.....your intention was only to block and stall and hopefully defeat a sitting President!
You Mr. Weeper are an epic failure!
Feisty redhead,.....
..You never miss an opportunity to lash out at Republicans but always disappoint where it involves healthy debate about possible solutions. Let's begin with the debt crisis or "fiscal Cliff" predicament if you have the clarity of thought and inclination to have a meaningful discussion.
I'll provide a little push-off ,....raising taxes on high earners (above 250K) to pre-Bush levels will only net about 3% of the money the administration will need to close the deficit. Yet Pres Obama offers nothing else. 1.6Trillion in revenue increases Obama says. From where, the tooth fairy? I'm waiting for a reply, Fiesty.......
The so-called "fiscal cliff" is mostly a myth, a boogeyman created by the Republicans, to scare people into doing what they want.
2 parts:
1- the Bush tax cuts, which - duh - Bush created; and he designed them to expire (for chicken-hearted reasons, but his chickens have come home to roost).
2- the sequestration, which ReThugLicans created also. This is about fixing the debt/deficit, which the ReThugLicans are obsessed about - even though there is no inflation in sight, and we can borrow money for FREE - yes, 0% interest. We should be using that 0% $$ to invest in infrastructure & job creation - then the debt/deficit will take care of themselves.
If we go over the so-called "cliff" it can all be undone, retroactively, during the first few months of next year, and President Obama will be in a better position then to get our Progressive agenda done.
.
THIS IS WHAT MOST ECONOMISTS RECOMMEND!
.
There is a British expression I love: "round the twist" - it means 'crazy' (kind of like, "not playing with a full deck," or, "one can short of a six-pack."
So I say, Let's go 'ROUND THE TWIST'! i.e., off this stupid fake "cliff."
Meanwhile, ReThugLicans: stop holding the JOBS BILL hostage! ( and raise the bloody debt ceiling, too!)
.
FORWARD! :-)
Boehner is the one that is holding this whole thing up. They are holding the American people hostage so they can get the President not to raise taxes on the rich. I hope we do go off the fiscal cliff, then the taxes will go up and then we can lower it for the middle class and poor without the hostage of the rich tax issue the House is using.
I see, AKGirl, NOW it's "our" economy. For years now it's all been "Bush's fault" and "the previous administration." Talk about one-sided. OK, I get it. It WILL NEVER be Hussein's fault.....well, unless the economy improves.
And don't hit me with this "code word" hooey with regards to me using Hussein's middle name. It *IS* his name after all. If people can use "Willard" without nary a complaint from you, then I sure as heck am free to use "Hussein." Speaking of code words......can you tell me: what is the code for "Stued SH!t???" :D
P.S. Thanks, I do enjoy finding common ground once in a while, as we did yesterday. I'm not as bad as you might think. Sometimes, "when in Rome".........it DOES get a little "contentious" around here and some of us just feel the need to bite back..... Peace!!
Progress will come when Republican Conservatives abandon the position that compromise can ONLY look like the policy agend of the guy who just lost the Presidential election.
Why is this hard for them to figure out?
The GOP doesn't know what POTUS wants? Gee I have no problem at all understanding what the UNITED States President wants. Are they finally admitting what the majority of Americans already knew a long time ago that they were all ignoramuses and disingenuous ass holes? Perhaps they should resign due to mental health issues and get people in office that are just a bit more intelligent.
Eric, are you totally ignorant to reality? It is the only explanation there is for you not realizing the House has passed budgets the last 2 years. Democrats have yet to put up a bill aside from Obama's well mocked budget proposal that didn't garner a single vote in the 2 years he offered it up.
The house has done its job. Reid has not proposed any budget as required, has scuttled most House bills not even allowing them to committee, and ends all debate on Senate bills silencing the minority party.
You honestly can't be this blind to reality. The Senate is the single biggest road block in legislation, and it's not due solely to the GOP. Reid has basically ground that legislative body to a stand still. The few bills that do make it to the floor are bypassed on committee using procedural maneuvers (Reid). Amendment and discussion is bypassed (Reid). No real work is done.
Grow up, it's time you stopped being a good little soldier and awakened to reality. Reading Woodward's latest book would be a good start for you democrats who proffer up nothing but lies as to what is really going on. It is filled with citations and interviews on both sides to show where the true gridlock is.
Time to grow up.
This is exactly why the 2 party system we have is completely ridiculous. It leads to these idiotic stalemates with liberal and conservative extremists not wanting to relent. Why can't we elect more Independents and Libertarians?
Here's a news flash: The majority of Americans are MODERATES.
Overcome your childish urges to satisfy your cronies and work together on an equal compromise before you all commit political suicide.
The question the press seems to avoid is "Boehner, since you are in agreement with the President on not raising taxes on the middle and lower class, why are you not passing that bill in the house? Why are you holding the American people hostage to further your agenda?"
What compromise?
GOP has offered up tax revenue. TPC estimates capping deductions at 50k a year would generate more revenue than letting the tax rates for top 2% expire. The Tax Policy Center, the one the left loved during the election, remember them?
What has the left offered up?
No cuts to SS.
No changes to Medicare.
No changes to Medicaid.
Asking for budget increases next year.
The left has offered up NOTHING. Yet you left blindly keep parroting it is the GOP not coming to the table. What a joke. Stop mouthing talking points devoid of reality. I offer up to you what I offered up to Eric, do some research, stop parroting talking points devoid of facts. Read the Woodward book, it explains what started the gridlock (Hint: It was the democrats and the "Eff them we have the votes"). The book even shows it was Congressional Dems who started the war, not Obama. It is a non-biased analysis of what happened in 2010, not the blue colored lies reported on DailyKos that the left proffer up.
Whats there to understand..... Rep. Boehner is just the Tea Party mouth piece..... He really does not have the guts to against them..... Since the Tea Party has not learned that we really have no faith in anything they propose get ready to Fall Over The Cliff.....
A deal was worked out in the WH by Boehner and Reid, and their staff, which put revenues in the deal to satisfy Mr. Obama. They walked back in to present their deal to Mr. Obama, the one with the requirements Mr. Obama had demanded, and Mr. Obama said, "No". Reid's staffer there then laid into Mr. Obama pretty harshly. The meeting ended in failure, and the "fiscal cliff" was born. This is all recounted by first person accounts in Woodwards book about Mr. Obama.
At this point I want Republicans to refuse to compromise on anything with Democrats if it doesn't decrease the scope and reach of government. For political reasons, just like for Mr. Obama too, it makes sense to say everything is on the table, and so on. But when the dust settles over this fight I hope that we go off the cliff and do not raise tax rates or increase tax revenues beyond what the MASSIVE increases will be in January.
Our problem has never been too little revenue. We have a government, of our own choosing I agree, that has promised far more than it can pay for within the revenue streams available. So either pony up the extra cash yourselves, or (and as I would hope) ask your government to do less for you. Regardless, one of the few things Mr. Obama has ever said which I agree with was that continuing to make future Americans pay more so that current Americans can live beyond their means is immoral. Any solution to the "fiscal cliff" will perpetuate that immorality. So let's go over it, together, liberal and conservative alike, and suffer the consequences of our own votes. Finally.
As a side benefit we might get to witness yet more leftist's melting down publicly upon realizing the "deal" they are getting from the government isn't what they had hoped it would be.
President Obama campaigned on raising taxes on the rich and won the election. Boehner is holding the American people hostage by not passing the bill for continuing the middle class tax cuts and offering revenue instead of what the people voted for and that is tax the rich. As soon as the President gets his tax increase on the rich, then we can talk about spending cuts and revenue.
Back to the Ryan budget I see. The majority has spoken - President Obama please do not do anything to senior citizens!
Jesse-AZ
I just thought I would hold up a mirror to you so you could see for yourself what your posts look like.
Salud
as long as states are allowed to gerrymander their districts we will have grid lock ... and no compromise ... the President has taken his case to the people and won .. the republicans need only say no as they have did for the last 4 years .. and nothing will change ... the rich will continue to get richer and the poor poorer and our country will get weaker
Ha, are we supposed to be surprised that Boehner is "disappointed"? His party thinks compromise is democrats doing what republicans want. Right now the only thing coming from republican mouths is bluster, a lot of hot air blowing bluster. Go ahead, Boehner, take the country off the cliff; hold 98% of the American people hostage in order to let Mitt Romney, Sheldon Adelson, Foster Fries, Donald Trump and friends avoid paying another 4.6% in income taxes. Let's see, that would mean Mitt might pay 18-19% instead of a little over 14%. On November 7, you can bet money that Romney's tax attorney's filed an adjusted tax return to get back that deduction for his giving to the Mormon church.
O.M.G. Oscar! Yes, it is STILL mostly Bush's fault that we are in this mess. You can't un @!$%# a country of 8 years of "wild partying" in less than 4 years without there being consequences. When I say OUR economy, I mean just that. It is every single American's economy, including president Obama's.
The middle name thing? #1 I referred to him as Romney or Mitt or Mittens, not Willard(creeps me out). #2 You are lying through your pearly whites if you think anyone believes you when you say "It IS his middle name". But, you know what, you keep right on doing it. It really just shows a weakness of character in you. Oh, and let me remind you of something. WILLARD is NOT the President, so I for one would not give him the respect that you think he deserves. Oh.....Stued @!$%# IS NOT the president either, just one of WILLARD'S lackeys. No code there, just having fun!
Jesse:
The primary problem with what you are suggesting is that even though Medicare/Medicaid are likely to become larger and larger portions of what will be the deficit by about 2020 and beyond, the primary component of the deficit in 2012-2013 is on the revenue side of the table, not the expenditure side of it. And the chief reason that they will become a larger and larger part of the ongoing deficit in the future is something that is completely outside governmental control - because the government does not control the rise in prices in the healthcare sector.
To that extent, what is necessary to structurally fix the Medicare/Medicaid system has less to do with 'cutting' than with waiting and seeing how much of an effect ARRA has on the escalation in prices. We'll be in a much better position to see what needs to structurally be done with these programs by 2015 or 2016.
On the other hand, we KNOW that revenue is stuck at 15.5% of GDP. We also KNOW that revenue is directly pegged to the growth of GDP and the amount that we collect is under our control.
Unlike most, I don't really care how we get there. Whether we flatten the system and eliminate loopholes or raise rates or whatever. But to have a chance at a healthy budget that accomplishes some amount of debt reduction, revenues NEED to be in the neighborhood of 20-22% of GDP, depending on how fast we want the foreign debt to shrink. On that level, no one is going to be especially happy for a couple of years because our taxes are going to have to go up. That is just reality.
But I also think that effect is mostly temporary and psychological. Once people adjust their lives to the greater hit their paychecks are taking, they will gradually stop being bitter and angry about it. At least I hope they will. There are a lot bigger things to be pissed off about than the fact that your paycheck is $50 smaller than it used to be or whatever.
At least, I hope you don't sit around being obsessed about that kind of thing.
The GOP and Tea Party are continuing to block the President on everything, The American People have voted and the majority support the President's plans to correct the disasterous financial situation the last Republican Administration left us in.
Every time the GOP/TP blocks the President's efforts, they are blocking every single American citizen that voted for him.
If those stubborn, selfish politicians continue to think only of themselves, their party, and their personal agendas, then they need to be held responsible and should be voted out as soon as they are up for re-election. Their silly posturing and foot-dragging are nothing short of treasonous while our country is in this mess.
People, find out who your State Representatives are, get their names and email addresses, send them a note to let them know you are watching them, and will remember what they personally did to correct this economic travesty.
HOLD EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE GOP/TP MEMBERS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR REFUSAL TO WORK SERIOUSLY FOR COMPROMISE.
Put the "Grand Bargain" back on the table exactly as it was when the Rep. Boehner was forced to walk away by the TEA Party Freshmen and Rep. Cantor. It contained spending cuts that were immediate as well as revenue generation (four dollars cut in spending for every one dollar in increased revenue) Let's see what Congress shoose to do now that the election is over. Let's see if the Republicans are willing to claim that this proposal isn't "specific enough."
The budgets that Rep. Beohner is referring to included (among other things) de-funding PPACA. That simply isn't going to happen. It's not a negotiable point. That needs to be understood right up front.
When 10 to 1 dollars were offered on spending cuts to revenue increase by Obama, it was rejected by the right. What number will they be fine with.
Everybody knows that spending cuts are on the table. It is common logic at this point.
Somebody better tell the house that their jobs are quickly becoming an endangered species if they keep acting like children.
Oh, and it didn't help that every budget proposed by the House Budget Committee included a repeal of the ACA. How can they be taken seriously when everything offered by the Republicans is a Trojan horse filled with poison pills?
The American people have spoken. They like the ACA, they do not like tax cuts for the rich, and they sure as hell want a Democratic president leading this country. Time for the Republicans to read the writing on the wall.
Hey 67Stang,
I'm not sure why you think minor party participation in legislation would make it more moderate. Most libertarian-minded people think virtually nothing done by Congress should have been approved. And for good reason--even James Clyburn, #3 Democrat in the House, claims that the vast majority of what Congress enacts has no basis or authority in the constitution. So if more Libertarians were elected, you would expect them to compromise with, say, Greens, to do something? Sorry, but that dog don't hunt.
Our problem isn't that we have a two party system. You are also wrong that most people are moderates. It might be that in sum total a person is a moderate, but on any individual issue most people are either right, left, or ignorant. It would be implausible to think that a moderate would both favor more taxes as a way to stimulate the economy (a sometimes position of liberals) and favor lower taxes as a way to stimulate the economy. These two positions represent the vast majority of voter sentiment. Not mine, but most everyone else. I'd prefer we have a flat tax on income and no other federal taxes of any kind, with no business taxes at the federal level, and no deductions or credits or adjustments of any kind for individuals. If we want to spend $3.5 trillion and personal income is a bit more than $9 trillion (as both numbers actually are), then we should tax ourselves at the rate of about 37%. This IS the current real federal tax rate, but we just lie to ourselves about it. It has nothing to do with state and local taxes either.
It's immoral to make our kids pay for our free stuff. And with such a high tax rate voters might, finally, want less "free stuff" from the government.
Tea Party Downgrade,
They can't read evidently. Or comprehend much.
Time to grow up America every one is going to pay more in tax's , The free ride is over !
RWN69.
First of all blaming one party or the other about where our debt came from is ridiculous... they both caused it. The US has ALWAYS been in debt and, regardless of what either party says, will ALWAYS be in debt. Why are the following not feasible actions to REDUCE the debt?:
1) Protect solvency of Social security by increasing OASDI & SSI taxable income from 113K (2013) to 150K.
2) Raise taxes on individuals earning <200K and couples <300K to 39.6% (Clinton levels where economy was BOOOMING). PS: The Congressional Research Service found no correlation between tax cuts for corporations/the wealthy and growth in US GDP. Google it... the GOP blocked release of this study to prevent people from questioning their ONLY concern and what they fight for over the will of the people.
3) Allow medicare to negotiate cheaper drug prices with pharmaceutical companies (Bush said NO in part D)
4) Enact and comply with fraud and waste reductions inherent within the ACA (aka Obamacare)
5) Save money by removing ALL of our regular troops and equipment from Afghanistan
6) Reduce the budget for the Dept of Defense (aka dept of OFFENSE) by making most of the new defense projects (F-22, F-35, VA class subs, A-B class destroyer, trident II, etc.) RISK SHARING projects. In other words the costs associated with missing schedules and not achieving desired specifications are shared BETWEEN the company AND the DOD. I have worked on defense projects and watched as corporation after corporation, whether through incompetence or criminal malfeasance, refused to correct OBVIOUS flaws in equipment because they would not hit their mile-stone pay date.
7) Establish EFFECTIVE and CIVILIAN (fully vetted for clearances) committee to go through the DOD's books. Give this committee authority to prosecute obstruction and misdirection. This committee would be beholden to defense committees from BOTH houses of Congress and the executive branch ONLY. WE THE PEOPLE have ABSOLUTELY NO idea how much money is wasted by the DOD because they constantly "mess" their books up to obfuscate waste and fraud.
I would LOVE to hear some COGENT and well thought out arguments as to why these are bad ideas?
How about this as a cut to entitlement, we cut their health plans and retirement plans for a start. Have not heard that from either side. Then double their taxes. No paychecks until they balance a budget. Not that they don't get paid they don't get issued a check.
Hey, JT! Alaska Girl ... keep it up GF!
Tea Party Downgrade ...
You think they'd GET that by now, but alas comprehension of life outside of the GOP bubble just doesn't exist.
@AlaskaGirl: no need to apologize for what you said in 1.2; you actually cleaned up what I would like to say. There must be something that the Executive branch can do to force these incompetent prima-donnas into a room with only bread, water, and a single outdoor unheated, cleaned-biweekly porta-potty for use until they hammer out a solution. We need these clowns to quit watching themselves on cable "news" and instead study reruns of Lets Make A Deal to see how it's done.
notliborcon,
I did not finish reading your long post because your first sentence was so erroneous.
When President Clinton left the White House, there was a SURPLUS.
When Bush left, he gave us the largest DEFICIT in history that was destined to plunge even more.
If you are unaware of those simple facts, then I don't think your other ideas can be all that good.
Money is put in an interest barring account and the interest can only be used to pay down the budget.
Boner is disappointed? He aint seen nothin yet. Off the cliff with him and his radical right wing nut jobs. Nothing will get done until January 1st when dirty Harry Reid repairs the filibuster. Then we will see some movement, and they will really be disappointed.
A quick question to those people making the "listen to what the voters said in 2012" comments...what did you say after the 2010 elections?
milklkit,
Be careful what you wish for... You may like changing the filibuster rules now when Democrats control the Senate, but what about when Republicans take it back at some point in the future?
Um, no..... not really Lunkystraydog. In fact, it's looking more and more like on those at the very pinnacle of the income scale will be on the hook for increased taxes and reduced
ploopholes. Here is a solid link that should push your boat in the proper direction.http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3220
So you see Lunky..... the top earners have been increasing their share of the pie hand-over-fist for the last thirty years. And we rewarded them with TAX CUTS as an agreement they would create jobs with that additional income. BUT THEY DID NOT DO THAT! They proceeded to stash the money overseas and begin an assault on the average American worker by opening the flood gates of OUTSOURCING.
I cannot begin to count the amount of negatively-affecting principals put into effect within that last paragraph. Boy did we get duped.
Well, it's high-time that we bring this ship back on course. We have the right man leading this country who holds these values dear to his heart. He recognized the problems we face, campaigned on those concepts and continues to fight the corporate shills that challenge his every move.
We will give you spending cuts...... don't worry about it. Obama understands what the term sacrifice means. What he won't do is bow down to the bureaucratic oligarch puppets that have been sewn into place by such fat-cat barons as the Koch's and Sheldon Adelson.
You can always tell the moderate liberals from the far left liberals here. The moderate liberals are saying that both sides need to get this crap done, the far left blame it all on the right. Both sides are at fault, both sides need to resolve it. Boehner has started up with being willing to give on tax increases on the wealthy, Reid has come back with 'I don't understand his brain'. Sounds like Reid needs to man up and come to the table with something. Then, hopefully, they can actually come to an agreement.
As soon as the President gets his tax increase on the rich, then we can talk about spending cuts and revenue.
That's about the dumbest thing I've heard. Reagan gave amnesty based on the fact the left said they would control the borders afterwards. How did that work out? (Albeit following that neither party to date has controlled the borders. That includes the current president, if drugs/illegals are getting through, the border isn't controlled)
You can't expect to get something for nothing but a promise in the future. Both sides need to come to the table with serious offers, that's the only way this will work. Both parties have their hands dirty when it comes to the current mess. It isn't just the left, it isn't just the right, it's both parties. The current mess has been in the making for decades. We've had both parties in control at different times over the past decades where decisions were made that did not benefit this country.
It's like the current congress. The house blocks obama, the senate blocks the house, and all the ensues is throwing sand in the sand box. Both sides are to blame.
If you can't see and/or can't admit that, then you're just an ignorant ostrich.
This is absurd! Nearly all economists agree that, if the tax breaks for the under $250k incomes are permitted to expire, we will be thrown into a recession ... again. We need to get this situation rectified now.
Boehner and colleagues absolutely understand this and I think they plan to allow it to happen, then try to blame it on President Obama citing the president's unwillingness to 'compromise' [read: cave in to their bull@!$%# demands]
These anti-American bastards are trying to hold the country hostage and they need to be taken to task. There is no power on this earth that will keep them safe if they continue to attempt to destroy our nation with their obstructionist, back-room, entitled bull@!$%#.
This is a democracy; it is majority rule, not the rule of a handful of elitists trying to dictate to the middle class.
Boehner better be watching his back pretty closely if he plans to continue on this dangerous path. The people of America do not handle it well when we are attacked; whether from without or within. We will defend our nation from those who would destroy it for their own greed and lust for power.
Maybe Boehner is a closet-Democrat and is deliberately setting the GOP up for failure in the 2014 elections. If that is his goal, he's certainly achieving it.
I like that one.
Boehner needs to pass the cuts on 98% of us (since all are agreed). They can piss and moan about the other tax rates to the top and cuts afterward. And since republicans are insisting on the cuts, they need to put forth what they desire cut - not wait for dems to do it for them (so they can blame the dems for the cuts in the next election). But since they are insisting on them, they need to take the lead.
Let me just offer a few ideas. Anyone that lives off of government assistance or accepts an outrageous wage from the government (look at what Mr. Obama has spent of our taxpayer's money on himself and his family) needs to realize that they are stealing from our children and grandchildren and great grandchildren. If you look to the government to solve your problems then just think of this. Name me one government program that runs efficiently and does not waist millions of dollars? Government is not the answer. Big government has always failed. Look at history.
If we confiscated (not just tax) all property of millionaires how long could we run the government on current spending levels? Not very long. And just think of what this country would look like if we took everyone's money. We have a spending problem not a revenue problem. Government is not that answer. America will only improve if the people of America improve. Everyone needs to stop blaming others and stop stealing from future generations.
The Democrats say we should return to the Bill Clinton era. Well then let's go back to that plan. That means the tax rates and SPENDING LEVELS. Let's do away with all spending programs that did not exist under Mr Clinton including Obamacare and Mr. Bushes increases also. I would be for that. Infact I think that might be a good compromise. Lets go back to both the tax rates and spending levels of the Clinton administration
I say we go back to the spending levels and tax rates in effect the last time a Real Republican was in office, 1960, tax rates under Dwight D. Eisenhower:
Note the top rate: if your taxable income is $400,000 or more, your tax is $ 313,640 plus 91% of the excess over $400,000.
The tax code was much simpler then too.
I'd go for that tax code, even if you index the levels for inflation.
The country would be out of debt within 10 years.
The REAL Party of NO: Progressives~Liberals = Democrats.
Just ask any of them on the hill who signed they would NOT TOUCH SOCIAL BENEFITS.
Yeah, right.....bipartisan my A**.
I don't care how they choose to resolve this. Spending cuts, tax increase, some combination of the two............I'm fine with any of those options. But what I will absolutely NOT support is any increase to the debt ceiling which is the real issue at hand. The thought of our country turning into the next Greece or the next Spain is beyond terrifying. This issue is so important that I would support the GOP taking us off the fiscal cliff if that's what it took. Part of the agreement from last year was that it would be the LAST time we increased the debt ceiling. If we can't even keep that promise for a year, what hope if there for our future?
Hi notliborcon,
I think most of what you wrote won't work. The problem with SS is far more intractable than simply adding to the cap out income amount. That would help for a few years, assuming the goal is to perpetuate a bad program for a few more years. I would suggest SS be completely rethought. If we want it to gradually become a welfare program, as your idea would help begin, then so be it. But as it is SS provides a terrible ROI, one which in the private free market would get very few to participate. FICA sucks up 15.3% of our personal incomes up to the capped amount--we should be millionaires rather than paupers upon retirement. So more can be accomplished with less money, rather than the same with more money. And this doesn't even begin to touch upon the racist (unintentionally to be fair) and classist outcomes inherent in SS.
I have no problem letting Medicare negotiate for lower drug prices if we decide we must have Medicare, another of the failed social programs intended to help us. As it is today Medicare costs far more than predicted while delivering less benefits than promised. At the same time a large portion of Medicare costs are, because of reimbursement rates, shouldered by private insureds. It doesn't cost less to treat a Medicare patient than a privately insured patient, and so lower reimbursement rates are made up for by higher costs to others. The government has been doing this for decades. It's wrong. So negotiating lower drug prices would have the same effect. So long as drug makers can make up the lost revenue elsewhere they would, of course, be happy to sell drugs to Medicare patients for anything above the variable costs associated with producing the drugs. But would this make the cost-shifting scheme right? I don't think so.
It would make more sense to remove all our troops from Japan and Germany than from Afghanistan. War continues in Afghanistan, so if your goal is to lose (whatever that may mean) then your idea would make sense. Germany and Japan lost, and we have tens of thousands of troops there. But the cost savings isn't huge unless you mean to shrink the size of the armed forces at the same time. There are marginal cost savings, sure, but we aren't talking about much money relative to the yearly deficit.
I say audit the DoD. But let's not stop there. Medicare, easily, is the larger driver of our deficit. So we can go after them too. And Education, Commerce, Energy, and all other departments. But don't think we will find much savings. Since the country began politicians and voters have tried to root out waste, fraud, and abuse. Milton Friedman had an interesting take on this. Under what efficient government would you want to live? For me the answer is none. I like a government that is fat and bloated, concerned more about how to get another paid holiday than about how to find more ways to make me less free. But, like Friedman, I want a smaller government, one that does much less, and so wastes much less. This is the best way to get waste, fraud, and abuse reduced.
An implied argument of yours must be, I think, that since the government does so much so poorly, that we should entrust it with less power to do more things for us. I could be misreading you, but if the government intentionally obfuscates its own books, then should we really want it to be our protector against, say, financial obfuscation, aka derivatives? It seems to me we should want more people to do more for themselves. But like I said, I might have misread you.
Regards.
Well luckily nobody cares what you think. Even the Democrats know that there's not anywhere close to enough members in their own party that would ever support such idiocy.
Nice dismissal Killian.
And do tell what was so dysfunctional about the 60's economic plan? A system that prolonged a continued boom that started in the 40's and made it's way to the 70's.
That was back when the GOP stood for keeping entitlements in check, and not the Corporate welfare that exists today. Or the historically low tax rates across the board, but mostly highlighted by the top-tier tax brackets of today. Talk about handouts!
Time for the GOP to roll over and give Obama everything he wants. If Obama is serious about saving the economy he'll do something to save it. If he's not or his plan is to crash the US economy then the voters will get what they voted for.
2007:
Tax Revenue: about $2.5 Trillion
Federal Spending: about $2.9 Trillion
Deficit: about $400 Billion
2012:
Tax Revenue: about $2.4 Trillion
Federal Spending: about $3.5 Trillion
Deficit: about $1.1 Trillion
So in the last 5 years our Tax Revenue is about the same in 2012 as in 2007 but our Federal Spending increased about $600 Billion or over 20% in that same time period.
Here is the analogy. 2007 a family earns $50,000 a year but is spending $58,000. Now in 2012 the same family is earning $48,000 but spending $70,000. And the wife is telling the husband the solution to their problem is to accept a part-time job making $960 a year.
So tell me again why TAX REVENUE is the problem? The problem is spending. Stop the spending you stop the problem.
Dirp: Sorry, in 10 years we wouldn't be out of debt - in 10 years we would have a collapsed economy. Try again.
And why is it such idiocy ? Because it paid off the debt associated with WWII and the Korean war and the Marshall plan ?
Because at the time it was in effect, the US was experiencing record expansion and steady employment ?
NOTE: I did say to index the taxes for inflation. The top rate would apply to incomes over $3.2million.
The bottom rate would be up to about $31,800.
The problem for the last 30 years has continued to be that government spending has exceeded revenues, in absolute terms AND as % of GDP. GDP has continued to grow, regardless what the tax rates. In the last several years the rate of growth of spending has declined, and revenue has plumited.
If the objective is that EVERYONE pay something, and the deficit/debt be reduced, cutting taxes will not do it. You have to increase taxes AND cut spending.
None of that matters Tea Party.
In every economic system in the world the rich elite thrive. I honestly don't care what happens to the pathetic pukes in this country who have seen their incomes dropped or jobs outsourced over the last few years. My career has been progressing nicely, my pay continues to increase, and the only way my job will be outsourced is if I ask for a transfer abroad. By the time the shít really hits the fan in this country, I'll be retired in a foreign country sipping on scotch at 10:00 in the morning. In the meantime, you can contiue to worship your savior and wait for him to wave the magic wand that will fix this country. I hope it works out for you but we both know that the developing world is progressing too quickly for us to ever see our manufacturing base return. You can't legislate wealth no matter how hard you try.
And I would love to go back to the 60s, the time when the rest of the industrialized world was still rebuilding from WWII and we didn't have any international competition for our products. Which country do you think we should bomb first? I'll let you pick.
What an excellent idea! The house Democrats could draw up a budget following the President's guidelines, the house Republicans could pass it, then the senate Republicans could refrain from fillibustering it, allowing it to come up for a vote, which the Democrat majority would pass, and the President could sign it into law. The President would therefore own it, and would have to accept the blame or credit depending on how the economy does going forward. Personally, I believe the economy would do just fine, but time would tell. The only problem with this scenario is that the Republicans would never, ever sign on to it, unfortunately.
Look who's back. ProBusiness and his misinformation train. All aboard to Clownville!
ProBusiness: your analogy is very apt. The owner of the business in 2007 might have made $500,000, but in 2012 would have demanded from the workers the 4% cut in pay and increased his profits to $750,000 and he complains about his taxes.
The reality is that increasing the tax rates, particularly at the top end, will NOT have a long term negative effect on the economy. There may be a short term effect, but it will be offset by the improved overall fiscal health of the country.
It's often difficult for the average (uneducated) liberal to comprehend just how big the problem is with such large figures being mentioned, so I'll break it down and compare our debt situation to a typical family budget in which the family income represents the tax revenue and the family expenditures represent government spending.
-Mr. and Mrs. Smith earn $24,000 a year.
-They spend $35,000 a year for an annual loss of $11,000.
-They also have credit card debt of $160,000 a year (no, we can't consider it a mortgage because they debt is not invested in anything that will bring added value to the economy).
Now Mr. Smith (GOP) says that the only way the family can get out of the mess is to cut back the spending. Mrs. Smith (Donkeys) wants to call up the credit card company and ask for an extension of credit. She also wants Mr. Smith to ask his boss for a raise of $1,000 a year to get out of the mess. Which plan sounds more reasonable to you?
How come everybody is so upset about the taxes going up in January? You voted for that!! By electing Obama again you allowed ObamaCare to become "law of the land". That increases your costs/taxes about 10% a year just for that!!
Then Obama said he wasn't going to decrease spending anytime in the near future AND entitlements are not going to be adjusted anytime soon. But at the same time he is going to give you Obama phones and pay off your student loans. With what? Charm? A smile? Sorry, nothing is free in this world. When you spend money it must come from somewhere. Historically we borrowed it (and I personally was yelling and screaming for the last 10 years to STOP BORROWING!!).
But we borrowed anyway. However, our credit is getting shot so borrowing will stop in the very very near future. Not because our government won't stop - they can't. It is in their genes to borrow. But the global financial MARKETS will stop. Won't be long before the global financial markets say "sorry, we are not comfortable loaning you any more money". When that happens we are screwed.
But don't worry, Obama has a solution which is to continue spending $3.5 Trillion a year but instead of getting $2.4 Trillion a year in tax revenue we will get $2.45 Trillion a year by taxing the "rich". That's right, at best these taxes "on the rich" will bring in only $50 Billion and that is only if the economy is not negatively affected (but we all know it will be so that number will actually be less than $50 Billion).
But wait a minute? That doesn't make up even a LITTLE bit of the difference? Our deficit will STILL be over $1 Trillion a year. Where is THAT money going to come from? We won't be able to borrow it in the very near future.
So either you were NAIVE to think your taxes were not going up (and going up significantly) or you were aware and knew taxes were going up. All you Democrats pretend to be SO smart that I am SURE you aren't naive (sarcasm) so you MUST have known your taxes were going up and going up a lot. So why are you complaining that your taxes are going up? You voted for it!!
Three juicy snippets from separate Killian gems above. Let me guess Killian...... you don't care about anybody but yourself? Makes you wonder why anybody would ever care about what you have to say in general.
I love how liberals always say we should go back to the Clinton-era tax rates, but won't mention anything about the Clinton-era spending levels.
An interesting fact: 1999 the total federal tax receipts represented roughly 20% of the GDP. In 2012, total federal tax receipts represented.................roughly 20% of the GDP. So our revenue has remained the same in relation to the size of the economy even after the Bush/Obama tax cuts, yet we've gone from a health budget surpluss to a $1T+ deficit. Is that because people aren't paying enough taxes or is it because spending is out of control?
Dirp: You are amazing. I give you data. FACTS!! And you tell me the FACTS are not right because of some abstract and illogical explanation?
Sorry, facts are facts. Our tax revenue in 2012 is about the same as 2007 but our spending has increased 20%. Twist and turn that all you want to and pull out your "talking points" pamphlet all you want but it is what it is. We have a spending problem.
And THEN to say increasing taxes on the small business owners and the "rich" will actually GROW the economy? I don't know what kind of weed you have in your area but it sounds like very strong stuff. Amazing how the weed allows such disillusion and illogical explanations. INCREASING taxes will NOT have a negative affect? Amazing.......... Absolutely amazing...........
It's called FICA.
There's a little box on your W-2 and your paycheck for that.
Courtesy of CNN Money:
Only Republicans, would want ordinary, hardworking, Poor and Middle class Americans, put THEIR Hard-earned paycheck dollars on the table to be negotiated and reduced in order to pay off the huge debt that Republicans created.
Un-Fricken-believable.
If you watch Faux, then you're stupid enough to fall for this shell game.
If you DON"T watch Faux, then this should make you mad as all heck.
Screw this. Lets just wait until January.
Salud
Tea Party Downgrade: Sorry, I didn't mean to bring FACTS into the discussion - I know how that bothers you and cannot defend your position once facts are brought into the equation.
BTW, I think facts are to Liberals like sunlight is to Dracula - I think it burns their eyes.
Killian-
Neither does actually. We need a new plan.
1)Restructuring of tax code. No deductions, no loopholes. Everyone pays a flat rate of between 15%-20%. All entitlement money is taxable, as is ANY other form of income.
2) Legalize and tax Marijuana. The income this could bring through taxation is huge, not to mention the savings on our judicial system by not prosecuting people with a join in their pocket. No, I am not a pot smoker, but as a part time bartender it is less dangerous than alcohol and that's legal.
3) You can only receive entitlement money for a 2 year period in a 15 year span. This includes everything besides SS for US citizens over 65.
4) Close every military base located outside the US and bring all troops and equipment home. Use the troops to secure our borders, repair our roads, or whatever else they could be useful for.Also cut aid money for other countries. This will save us at least 40% of our govt spending.
5) Limit malpractice medical claims to a reasonable amount. My wife works for a clinic and the malpractice insurance is over $1 million a year PER DOCTOR. This would lower costs for the doctors, which should lower medical costs across the board.
Much more to be done but that would be a proper start
Yawn. Anyone can make a list of ideas that have zero chance of happening. Not saying your ideas aren't good (I agree with most of them), just that our political leaders would never go for it.
My wife is a doctor so I agree with your suggestion to limit malpractice suits (something they've done in Europe that has reduced costs greatly), but your estimate of the insurance costs is way too high. On average, and OBGYN will pay about 250K a year in malpractice insurance and they are on the highest end of the spectrum.
Here's a fact ProBusiness.......
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3220
That is fact. You cannot refute this information. Killian tried to put his spin on it yesterday, but failed miserably. When I posed this factual data your way, you headed for you cave and did not come out till the ghost was clear.
YOU CANNOT EXPLAIN WHY THE TOP % EARNERS IN THIS COUNTRY HAVE TRIPLED THE INCOME GAP BETWEEN THEMSELVES AND THE POOREST EARNERS IN THIS COUNTRY.
THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE ON THE HOOK FOR INCREASED REVENUE. GET OVER IT.
Oh, and talk to you tomorrow. I suspect this will not be addressed by you AND your FoxTrain of misinformation.
Its a possibility that I might have misunderstood her. The practice she works at has 4 MD's, A DO, and 2 FNP's. I know the politicians now we have now would never go for it, but that does not mean that we as a people should not be pushing these ideas out. We are the ones who control who is in office, at least right now we do. I am just sick and f'ing tired of the Red and Blue general population threatening and berating each other(which is what the politicians and ultra rich want) while the country crumbles around our heads.
Please show us where I tried to put a spin on this yesterday. I don't deny the fact that the income gap between the rich and poor continues to grow................in fact I embrace that idea.
The problem with republicans giving Obama what he wants is that if they do, they will be proven wrong. Raising tax rates on the top 2% will not lead to an economic slowdown or negatively effect the job market, and they know it.
The democrats are on board with fairly large entitlement cuts, primarily because Obamacare will take up some of the slack. Extending UE benefits, for instance, is much less important if those who are unemployed will not either die or lose everything by getting sick. This, coupled with the $1 trillion in savings estimated with the implementation of health care reform, makes the ACA one of the best pieces of legislation to be passed in a generation.
This demonstrates that Obama is a serious and competent leader. By giving us a new, directed safety net, we now have an opportunity to do fiscal repairs on the old safety net without letting folk drop through. This deficit reduction, coupled with modest tax rate increases on the top 2%, get us where we need to be. The world will not end. All this grandstanding is pointless. Get on with it.
If a Republican falls and nobody gives a sh1t does it still make a noise? Boner and the Republicans playing their obstruction games as usual. Just ignore the idiots and move on without them. They don't want to be a part of Democracy and We shouldn't have anything to do with them! I myself refuse to recognize one Republican in any official capacity.
Probusiness:
Your fact is only a fact if you ignore the intervening incident between 2007 and now. If you sincerely believe that revenue would be at the 2007 level without having bottomed out first by the economic collapse, you are fooling yourself. Just as you are fooling yourself if you believe that if the tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 hadn't happened, revenue wouldn't have been cratering from a level of about 3.2-3.3 trillion instead of 2.6-2.7 trillion like it did.
The economy up until 2001 was extremely well planned. And it was extremely well planned by a primarily Republican congress and agreed to by a Democratic president. However, as soon as a Republican president was voted into office, the Republican dominated government lost any sense of fiscal restraint. If you want to talk about light and day as far as increasing public sector expenses went, look at the Bush years versus the Clinton years. Then look at what Obama has increased versus what Bush has increased.
I guarantee you that if you look at it with an unbiased eye, you will be extremely surprised, given your very evident political leanings.
But the bottom line is that your facts are not facts, because you place them in no context. The Federal budget experienced two cataclysmic events in an 8 year period that cratered revenue twice. Spending, however, continued to grow at the same general pace it would have grown anyway.
We are slightly ahead of the 2000 projections for Federal spending right now. They projected that revenues right now would be at about 3.6 trillion and expenditures would be at about 3.5 trillion.
Going back to tax rates that make that a possibility instead of ones that have us forever stuck in the middle teens as a percentage of GDP might be a decent place to start to solve the problem.
The fact you embrace a wealth shift into fewer peoples hands at the top only confirms to everyone here that you are in fact unpatriotic scum. I really mean that.
And if you think I'm going to dig through yesterdays posts in search of some senseless drivel to satisfy your silly request is wishful thinking on your part. Carry on with you elitist rhetoric. We're all very impressed.
As a favor to you..... from me....... I will no longer ever address any of your posts.
The Boner refused to do anything other than run his mouth for the media and is disappointed no progress is being made?
Like the kid why plays video games all night and then is disappointed his homework isn't done.
Then he should get the stick and his head out of his _ss and start to bargin in good faith. Because Obama can't make a compromise deal with a weeping wooden Indian. Start by making the Bush tax cuts permanent for 98% of all Americans and then put concrete deduction limits and loophole closures on the table and bargin that 98% up. No more vauge BS. No more class warfare BS. Put some actual concrete proposals on the table!!
Snakebone, and what if Obama is WRONG??? No one man or one party is right about everything! They never read that health bill before they passed it now the States that want to operate it can't get the answers on how to do it because the Federal Government doesn't have the answers on how to do it, Arizona was asking the questions and couldn't get the answers, so we told the Fed to do it themselves.
Whatever your philosophical view of the income gap, you should understand that our history demonstrates that severe income inequality - not high tax rates - is the primary driver of economic depression.
The federal gave 1 million dollars to Arizona to reasearch this, the Federal gave the States until a certain date to decide. When asked for answers on how to do it or how it would work, they still after all this time could not answer the questions on Obamacare. A great bill studied well. This is going to work great, they doen't even know how to start it.
Ah heck, the lib media controls the word, and the word is the Republicans are the fault of everything. So if we are going to be the point of blame, why not just do an Obama and vote present, let the Dem House pass legislation and have the Progressive Senate confirm any program Obama chooses to make?
Whatever happens will be owned by Obama and he will have a heck of a legacy in history.
Bubba: Wrong about what? I don't think Obama has made no mistakes. I just think he is a serious and competent leader, relative to other serious and competent leaders we've seen. Lincoln made mistakes, Churchill made mistakes, Reagan made mistakes. All of them were wrong now and again, but that makes them no less serious and competent. Obama's pragmatism and forethought puts him in that category, IMHO.
Boner...that's S-Beaker of the House...is such a chicken
Yes, yes, the liberal media.
Problem is, the liberal media didn't create the income gap. Attacks on labor, huge tax cuts to the wealthy and market deregulation did that, and those are republican policies. I wish the media was as liberal - and as powerful - as conservatives claim.
Bubba: the problem is you're focusing on Arizona, which opposes the bill and its implementation. Try looking at California. They're having no problem figuring out what the bill requires and how to implement it.
This is all a sign of 12/21/12 coming- 3 weeks from tomorrow to be exact!
Oscar, way up top of this thread you say if we are going to raise taxes, make it fair. OK, let's do that. Let's make all income the same. If you earn it at work, in the bank, or on the stock market, let's just call it income and tax it as that. Tax it all at the rate at which tax is withheld from your paycheck. Seems fair to me.
The bottom line is the people will blame the Weeper and the do nothing republicans if taxes go up on the middle class. 2014 will be hell for the tea-republicans.
Snakebone, Obama makes mistakes just like everybody else, just look at the crook he appointed as AG, Holder, and the head of Homeland Security AZ ex Governor. If Mister Holder was a competent AG he would not have allowed the President to give an illegal order to Homeland security to not enforce the deportation of illegal immigrants an order that is impeachable. It IS a violation of hie oath of office and the Constitution, The President just because he is the President does not have the right to order the LAW ENFORCEMENT agencies just because he does not like the law to not enforce the letter of the law. What he ordered them to do was assist in the harboring of illegal immigrants within the boarders of the US. Yes I will say this if you think for one minute that they will impeach the first black President of the United States of America then think again, if you want a race war you would have one. Oh when the head of Homeland security of the Governor of Arizona our boarders were not safe, and she was screaming at the government to do something about it now that she is incharge of it they still aren't, but she can say they are.
Pigotry a chicken runs around with it's head cut off. The President runs around with his in the clouds so all we get to see is his AZZ. I'm not going to suck his s... like you do.
"Boehner 'disappointed' by lack of 'substantive progress' ..." ? Oh good grief! Does this guy live in an alternative Universe?
Boehner IS THE CAUSE of the "lack of substantive progress." Just as he, and Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor ("the 3 Stooges") have been the CAUSE of our totally impotent US Congress.
Someone needs to provide 'the Weeper of the House' a mirror, to help him identify the legislative log-jam which is unnecessarily extending the slump of our American economy.
Boehner is a flat out hypocritical liar. He has no intentions, none at all since January 20, 2009 to work with this President. He may not have been with the group of 13 republican obstructionist who met on the very day President Obama was being inaugurated in 2009, to obstruct everything President Obama would try, but he sure is part of them
Here they are again, I wonder who will take charge of the next group on January 21, 2013...
On January 20, 2009 Republican Leaders in Congress plotted to sabotage and undermine the U.S. Economy during President Obama's Inauguration:
The Guest List:
Frank Luntz - GOP Minister of Propaganda
Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) YOUR WANTED TO BE VP!!!
Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA)
Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA),
Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX),
Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX),
Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R-MI)
Rep. Dan Lungren (R-CA),
Sen. Jim DeMint (SC-R),
Sen. Jon Kyl (AZ-R),
Sen. Tom Coburn (OK-R),
Sen. John Ensign (NV-R) and
Sen. Bob Corker (TN-R).
During President Obama's inauguration on January 20, 2009, these people were planning to destroy America.
Dirty Harry Reid and his senate democrats haven't passed a budget in FOUR years even as Boehner and his republican house members have passed a budget each year they have been the majority party. That's called LEADERSHIP. What's your plan for addressing the trillion dollar deficits you and president Obama have overseen each of the last four years Harry? Do you have a plan? I realize math probably isn't a strong point of yours so let me help you out. The presidents plan to raise tax rates on those making over $200,000 is optimistically estimated to generate 80 billion dollars a year. Where are you gonna get the other 920 billion from Harry? Its time to put up or shut up. At this point I'm willing to go over the "cliff". How bout you Harry? Maybe you really don't understand speaker Boehners brain. Maybe you should evaluate his other organs, like his GUTS. I doubt you will understand that either as it is perfectly bclear you have none.
To those of you who feel that the Democrats are not serious about cutting the deficit please read this and then comment.
Quote LA Times November 28th: "KEY DEMOCRAT CALLS FOR CUTS TO SOCIAL SAFETY NET"
Sen Richard Durbin says just taxing the rich will not solve the budget problems. "We can't be so naive to believe that just taxing the rich will solve our problems", said Durbin speaking before the influential liberal group Center for American Progress. "Put everything on the table. Repeat. Put everything on the table".
Folks Durbin would never have said this without discussing it with President Obama first. He and Obama realize that EVERYONE has to take a hit...they knew that before the election...we can't go on as we have...they know this...they were just waiting for the election to be over...now it's time to serve the medicine...and everyone on this vine is going to take some.
This is a brave first step towards saving our country from the fate of Greece...please show your support by sending an e-mail Senator Durbin and thanking him for his courage!
durbin.senate.gov/
What's wrong with that?
I think it's a pretty good idea, instead of making one proposal after another, then Boehner agrees with the President, goes back to the Teagaggers who immediately put a whoppin on Boehner's hind quarters.
Good idea: Go talk to your people 1st and find out what they're willing to work with, then we have a ground game.
What's the point in going back-and-forth, unless the Teagaggers love the side show because it makes them look like THEY have control over Boehner, instead of visa versa.
Boehner, one of the biggest frauds in Congress....
I'm assuming that this is the nazi talking point for the day...several of the "thoughtless" ones have said almost the same exact thing.
Sounds like an incredible plan to me, "funnygirl"...but I doubt if you could talk the idiots you voted for into going along with it. You should probably rely on whoever it is pumping information into your brain cell to take care of it for you.
Thank you, however, for blatantly admitting that the Republicans would make a greater contribution to our country if they simply bowed out. Lord knows, it took you long enough to come to the conclusion that is a given to rational Americans.
The 2.5 deal that Obama offered during the 2011 debt ceiling debate and is now refitting in order to compensate for the shift in power (towards Democrats), which is fair considering the election's results and recent polls.
Yes, but that is frankly not enough revenues; $1.3 trillion is not enough to reach a good deal; $2.5 in spending cuts to $1 in revenues is not the most conciliatory offer Obama has offered to the GOP, but since they didn't take the candy when they could have now they now have to take the spinach. With a reasonable $4.4 trillion deficit reduction plan, revenues would have to be at around $1.6-1.7 trillion to $2.7-2.8 trillion.
We don't necessarily need to cut benefits; we could simply eliminate the payroll tax cap or expand it to 90% of all earned income. We could also slow down increases in benefits, which is not necessarily a benefit cut when using political jargon. Those alone would balance the SS budget over 75 years. Both of those have been proposed by lefties like myself.
Minus the already-scheduled Obamacare reductions in provider payments, negotiation of drug prices, means testing (something that I oppose irrefutably), and raising the retirement age (something I will support only in phased in gradually).
Minus the entitlement reform savings and the already-signed cuts to defense and social spending.
I don't see why Boehner doesn't accept the guidelines that Obama offered, or at least agree to the revenues. He still gets $1.3 trillion in scheduled cuts (included entitlement reform and signed spending cuts) and $1.7 trillion in room to bargain over. This isn't the final deal. Further cuts will be negotiated, obviously. But Obama won, period. He ought to get something; and simply saying that we'll tolerate revenue is not it. Revenues should ALWAYS be on the damn table; I'd say go 1:1 on spending cuts and revenues, or at most 1:2, but this a compromise. Republicans, your only justification for bitching about this deal is because you didn't take the candy in 2011 and now you're getting the broccoli. Democrats ate the damn broccoli and ate it ALONE; now it's YOUR turn, Republicans.
Fiesty
With this mentality of what's happening in Government, is there any wonder why our Nation is in such state of disrepair. Not to mention, the many like's she receives on such disparaging remarks.
Hate for the party regardless of the issue or the action that arises.
Repulsive, disgusting and not in the best interest of the Nation and the principles for which this Nation was founded.
If the Effen Dumbazzcrats would cut the spending, waste and fraud in government we would be able to lower taxes for everyone. The most hilarious thing about their proposal to raise the taxes on the top 2% is that it won't even raise 1 trillion dollars in revenue over the next 10 years while pres obummer raises the debt by 1 1\2 trillion a year. The dems need to go back to school and take a remedial math course.
obviously neither party knows much about the give and take theory often refered to as diplomacy.I have seen little kids acting better than these political parties and the people who support them.
Liberals are right about 1 thing...Social Security is not an entitlement because you are taxed for it.
However, YOUR GOVT STOLE & SPENT ALL OF YOUR MONEY.....
This is the part they fail on. As a result, to get our money back, the govt must STOP spending the Social Security taxes on other things and CUT spending enough so that the money can be REPAID.
Therefore, the answer is CUT CUT CUT....Raising taxes is not the answer for solving Social Security because that would mean the people will have funded Social Security TWICE!!!!!
What brain?
Pro Business
Not only did the vote for Obama, but democrats who wrote and passed the whole thing!
Too many people are treating elections like a likeablilty contest and not one on debating the real issues.
In the aftermath, what I hear is at least I will get _____________. How selfish is that? And there is those with the false humility. "At least people who do not have health care can get it". Really?
My daughter is applying to a number of Medical schools. Enrollment in these programs has dropped since the ACA passed. I'm now getting a barrage of emails and phone calls from schools extending their deadlines because they cannot fill the empty seats and that is without expanding the number of available slots to meet the coming demand.
Wolfhound
Um, the republicans are offering ending some deductions to raise revenues. Another Republican has offered a plan to cut spending at the defence department. By definition, that is compromise.
What do we have from the Democrats side? We want to Raise taxes on the rich and not touch entitlements!
When they don't get their own way, they are willing risk the fiscal Cliff!
Explain to the world how that is compromising!
m Thompson is dead on correct above.. a few other things would not not crumped us as well had the great recession - unpaid wars and smarter response to 9/11 - unpaid medicare part D - tax cuts not happen..
revenue would have been in the 3.3ish range today
we would not spend crazy amounts of money on miltary and security - far more than needed to respond to 9/11 effectively -- the path chosen has not been efffective in reality and we have only just started to back off the wars and nation building to going after the bad guys, talking diplomacy - not cowboy warhawking. I retired from the military within the last 3 years and can tell you from first hand experience of the waste in DOD and other security spending that needs to ratchet back
we should have paid for the expensive medicare part d with increase in medicar tax, some premium increase for medicare (means tested) and we should not have hobbled CMS from negotiation best low price possible for medications in the program -- this was a lot of corporate pander / welfare to PHARMA
we would not have had so many millions loss jobs and need tap unemployment for extended periods and the SNAP progam use increase is directly related to millions lossing jobs and the relentless decades corporation downward pressure on wage --
anyone that looks at tax rates and wage -- we proper inflation adjustment over time -- 1950s 1960s to today will see a systematic trend on reducing income tax rates.. this would over a tipping point in the last decade so the balance of spending / revenue spiralled out of control since 2001
so despite the call it's mostly spending -- it is mostly really a tanking of managing revenue proper -- reducing taxes too much -- giving lots of federal dollar and tax gifts deductions/credits/sub to lots of people - congress pandering -- mostly to corporation and rich but many play here. this has reach a material point that is is a large negative on revenue -- it took decades to do this in congress
we almost made it to a balance in the late 90's. but all this tanked over the last decade
to get back in balance will require spending cuts in many places, but it will require many to pay more taxes \ revenue
this should include raising or eliminate the the SS income cap -- increase in medicare tax / increase in means tested medicare premiums. I alos beleive the medicare age for a "cohort group" should be linked to the "full SS retirement age" for cohort group.. for me that would 66... maybe a bit more penlaty for early retirement at 62 for those not in jobs that are not really doable after 62 or so..
and yes reduce/cap/ change some deductions -- 2nd home mortage, tiered income cap on others etc.
and yes the rich portion needs to have rate go back to some past level or close to it for income about a certain level - 250, 300, 500K or such choice.. this roll back to 90's level or close to it needs to be income and capital gains/dividends
plus del with the "gift" of the carried interest rule for the hedge fund rich
Silverton... you are correct about Clinton leaving the US a surplus and Bush and his MASSIVE deficit. What you are missing is the fact that our national debt is an accumulation of annual debt is surplus. When Clinton left office the US still had MASSIVE debt but for the year he left we had more revenue than expenditures hence the surplus.
Rich-281385...
I, like you, would like to believe that the free market is flawless… but we are wrong. Dead wrong. The stock market is more of a gamble now then it EVER was. The financial/credit crisis of the GREAT RECESSION proves that point. Without effective regulation of the financial industry (courtesy of Gramm-Leach-Blighley) then our retirement savings (whether in mutual funds, bonds or stocks) are fodder for the wall street gang bangers. SS is NOT a hand out but rather something we ALL pay into when we work.
I would like to add another idea for SS: Establish a regressive pay-out scale… in other words, if your retirement savings (RS) is over 500 million then you get NO social security because you simply do not need it. At 250 million RS then you get 50%, at 100 million RS then you get 75%. Anything lower than 100 million RS you get 100%. Yes, this makes SS a tax… kinda like what it is on me because SS will be defunct when I retire in 2040 due to the fools in multiple congress’ who borrowed from the trust fund to spend on BS. This is the reason SS is underfunded… not, as you think, because it is inefficient.
In addition, your SS payout should be retooled to proportionately payout how much you paid in. In other words, if you have only contributed to the SS pool for 20 years then you do NOT get full SS benefits when you retire.
I would like to see some corroborating information for your cost per patient argument? Any recommendations? Second of all, medicare’s overhead (administrative) fees are ~2%. The private healthcare industry is ~15%... you have it backwards. As far as the “insured” ones paying for the un-insured, this is addressed in the ACA. When you have more people insured then the costs are spread over a larger pool of people ultimately driving the cost down for EVERYONE. I would much prefer a healthcare system that is single payer because it is then decoupled from the employer provided nonsense that this country has always had. The single payer system makes healthcare providers compete for our business thus, if you are a true capitalist, driving costs down and improving performance.
Define what a victory is in Afghanistan? Had the Bush admin not LIED us into a war for oil in Iraq, then our troops in Afghanistan would have had ample resources to route the Taliban. Our bases in Germany and Japan could handle a few closings but they are still necessary to support efforts in both the European and Pacific rim theatres. The argument of “cost savings isn’t huge” is simple facile. There is no single place where we could cut, without killing what we cut, enough to solve our debt issue. I certainly hope you understand that our national debt is an accumulation of annual deficits/surpluses. Therefore solving or helping solve our debt issue is going to require the proverbial “death by a thousand cuts”.
I agree with you on auditing many, if not all, of the departments… This is something Obama has been saying and, hopefully, will begin doing. POTUS requires the legislative branch to help in this effort and there is simply no support for ANYTHING Obama does in Congress…
My argument is that our elected officials need to put aside obligations to party, campaign contributors and special interests in order to truly improve the country for WE THE PEOPLE. As it stands, the will of the people is and has been ignored for many years and this is the situation we find ourselves in. I do not cast blame by pointing fingers on one party over the other (even though I truly believe that the GOP is a bit more culpable), I simply want there to be RELA and SUBSTANTIVE solutions discussed and acted upon so that we can feel secure about our futures once again. Our parents had the luxury of knowing that their children would be better off than they were… that security is GONE.
Thanks for accomodating my wish to have a congent and non-vitriolic discussion of these VERY serious issues ALL Americans have to come to grips with.
Looks like Obama will keep this lazy lot working through Christmas...Oh well. At least at the end of the year they're doing what they're supposed to do.
my president has the pubs number. the call is check and its the speakers move.
There affected.......the repubs have ALL drank the tea party coolade.......they resemble the jim jones cult
Boehner is the one that walked away from the last 4 trillion dollar deal. Why not just repropose that.
What's up with this, "no you go first, no you go first" stuff.
Eric, can you tell any more lies? Boehner had a deal with Obama. Obama then upped the deal by 600 billion in more revenue after the deal was basically agreed to. This was a 50% increase. Obama called it compromise, but the gentlemen's agreement had already been met. Obama backed away by making a laughable counter offer after the terms had been agreed to. It was a laughable position. Obama ruined compromise in 2010. Do you ever offer anything in the way of actual facts?
You ask why not repropose the last deal? That was 800 billion in revenue, not the 1.5 billion he is asking.
The Weeper was gerrymandered into protective custody!
He ran unopposed...that's the only reason he still is a member of congress!
Gotta work on getting all the "moochers/takers" out of congress.
House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) held his weekly press conference this morning, most of which was devoted to ongoing fiscal talks. At one amusing point, the Republican leader complained that President Obama has failed to propose specific spending cuts, and 20 seconds later, said he wouldn't provide specific spending cuts.
As I told the president a couple weeks ago, there's a lot of thing I've wanted in my life, but almost all of them had a price tag attached to them. And, uh, if we're going to talk about the debt limit in this, then there's going to be some price tag associated with it.... I continue to believe that any increase in the debt limit has to be accompanied by spending reductions that meet or exceed it."
It's important to understand how insane this is, and the extent to which the Speaker of the House is, once again, holding the economic health of the nation hostage.
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/29/15546399-boehner-invites-global-economic-ruin-on-purpose?lite
As Mr. Benen asked in an earlier article:
Is there something in the water in the Republican cloakroom?
Too funny.
Jesse-Az
There's an old adage about people who habitually lie--and wind up believing their own lies. What's worse is that these same people lie so much they think that everyone else must surely be lying!
The Right has degenerated to this abysmal level, and now they're in a double bind. They can no longer distinguish what is true.
Or not funny at all, Pat. It's pretty sick when you think about what's happening to this great nation.
Jack, it's not really funny - but then again, when you realize Boehner is in over his head between the democratic party, Mitch McConnell, John McCain and the Grover Norquist sell outs, well - it must be something in the water. What else can it be?
They sure as heck aren't thinking about what's good for the United States of America.
Chilled, yes isn't that crazy that he ran unopposed? I think the DNC needs to come up with a very viable candidate to run against him in 2014, win the election, and run his ass out of Ohio and DC at the same time!
VOTE NO FOR BOEHNER IN 2014!
Pat,
I know what you meant. But somewhere on a post today AlaskaGirl spoke for a lot of us when she wrote about being $@#%&^$ over it! Sometimes it's difficult to smile even when something is funny.
new reality ...
I don't think they've all drank it but it's pretty apparent that those who refuse to play with Boehner get shoved off of the playground (Cole for instance yesterday).
John, You've got two short years to do something positive for the country, and only two years.
Your the speaker of the House, get off you rear end and get busy, NOW!
4 extra years of tax cuts and the job creators are still pocketing the money and creating few jobs
.
it's time to greedy to cough up some of the loot
We do not need to wait 2 years. I say that all normal, rational Americans gather and do a collective intervention. It's time to send this slobbering idiot to Betty Ford.
It's for his own good, right?
The bottom line is the people will blame the Weeper and the do nothing republicans if taxes go up on the middle class. 2014 will be hell for the tea-republicans.
new reality
"There affected.......the repubs have ALL drank the tea party coolade.......they resemble the jim jones cult"
All that's left now is the bloating in the sun... And of course the documentary film 8-10 years after.
chick binder
The Tea party isn't even for eliminating tax deductions to raise revenues. So much for the Tea Party running the Republican party!
"akron"...Who are you trying to kid - the "tea" party is nothing more than the same fascist evangelicals that have been trying to usurp the United States government for decades. Quit trying to pretend that we all don't see through their "fiscal responsibility" front/lie. The only responsibility they know is force fed into their washed brains by Pat Robertson and Co.
I would appreciate it if they would cease raping US history by attempting to compare their fascist movement with the Boston Tea Party. I'm tired of them spitting in my county's face. Can you talk to them about that, "akron"?
You know , I truely beleive if the repubs had control of the nuclear missle facilities the would shoot them straight up and as they saw them coming down the would declare WE WON.................................
You're not that far off the mark....
US nuclear defenses are part of Homeland Security's $98 billion (last year) budget (up from $49 million in 2002 when they were created.)
Earlier this year John Boehner asked President Obama for permission to have his 33 member Homeland Security Oversight Committee (majority Republican) have sole oversight of the Homeland Security juggernaut. This means that if TSA screws up, or the Secret Service has another hooker scandal, or Senator Durbin has any more concerns about humane treatment of deportation camp detainees, the head of Homeland Security (Janet Napolitano, for now) will not have to face all of Congress, or even Senator Durbin, to answer questions; she'll just have to explain herself to these 33 people and John Boehner will inform the rest of Congress of their findings and that the matter is settled.
And this will apply to any concerns about the Office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, the Office of Legislative Policy, the National Cyber-Security Center, the National Communications Center as well as TSA, FEMA, USCIS, CBP, and the US Coast Guard plus all of the other governmental departments that Homeland Security has absorbed over the last decade between 2002 and 2012.
President Obama refused to give this committee sole oversight--thank goodness--and fortunately Mitt Romney wasn't elected, because I believe he would have granted that request.
Homeland Security right now is one of the biggest governmental spenders outside of the DoD, pouring money into research of technology like portable DNA analyzers, distance retina scanners, through-wall imaging technology (yes, cameras that can see through walls) surveillance drone technology, and computer programs that supposedly predict which persons are likely to commit crimes (Future Attribute Screening Technology, currently being tested at Boston Airport to keep suspected criminal off planes based on biophysical indicators like respiration, perspiration, pulse rate and eye movement. )
Because of all this money they are putting out in tech supposed to keep us safe, they've become one of the biggest targets for lobbyists in DC--imagine how that's going to work for that 33 member committee when suddenly the lobbyists just have to focus on those 33 and not all of Congress to get funding for a Homeland Security project passed...
"Migratory Fault"... New catch-phrase.
People that believe in this new phrase are the ones that think the passage of time affects who was responsible for what happened in the past.
That... is sheer unadulterated stupidity. That... Is also running rampant through the Republican rank & pile (sp?)
$1 trillion a year in interest on our debt...yes, it's a big joke. If the US credit is downgraded yet again because of this it will cost even more. All you who put your trust in the guy in WH, are sadly delusional.
Jennifer, New York
You do of course realize that the credit rating was only downgraded by only one of the institutions (and one with a poor history), and maybe that was because the GOP obstructed raising the ceiling for weeks on end. When was that ever done before?
The Federal Government does not pay $1 trillion per year in interest on the debt. There are a variety of conservative spending sites that will tell you year-to-year what the actual dollar amount of interest it paid was, but it has never been $1 trillion. In fact, it's not even a quarter of that. There are some pessimistic outlooks that assume we might pay somewhere close to that 8 years from now, but it's far better to deal in realities than to simply take at face value the assertions of those with political agendas.
Michael,
Jennifer doesn't care about truth. You can point her to all the sites you want, but she'll be back here tomorrow saying the same thing she's saying today.
Michael, Michael, Michael. You are seeking to get the delusionals, such as a poster above who shall remain nameless, to deal in realities? Some enjoy their bubble, and here you come along, you bad boy, and do your best at poking at it with a dose of reality. Tsk Tsk.
Jennifer, New York-
All of us, meaning THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, put our trust in the guy in the WH, not once, but twice, are the ones who are delusional, eh?
Sure.
As long as you're into making unsubstantiated generalizations, I'm guessing you have a poster of Glen Beck above your bed.
Salud
Forget taxing the rich. The revenue generated would not even pay for the federal government to wipe its ass. Lets start with a 25% reduction in wages and benefits for all federal employees. Now we have a starting point.
Oh, Tomas, SNAP!
Interest on the National Debt for FY2012----$359,796,008,919.49 and that is with interest rates at all time lows. Just imagine the cost of our debt when interest rates return to somewhat normal amounts. Say 3-5%.
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm
Michael T, terrific information.
Tomas, well done! Salud
Dennis#'s, oh, brother--another one blames those pesky government workers; doesn't occur to him that such an action would decrease federal and state revenues, cause economic spending power to decrease and thus end up costing jobs in the private sector. Think about it.
Tomas, Michael, Jody, all of you crazy liberals above, thanks for commenting on Jennifer's inane post! Good Lord how HARD is it to look something up before making some sweeping asinine statement?????
Where the debt came from that we are still paying for:
ReaganBushDebt.org
Jody, Iowa-
Alaska Girl, Jody and Layton.
Thanks. Back at you.
It is getting exhausting.
Why, but why, do Republicans, CONSTANTLY, want to screw the little-gals and guys (Middle Class) over and over again.
Why do they constantly advocate cuts in salary, low wages, less benefits for us hard working blokes.
They are all a bunch of mean old Scrooge poopy-heads.
Salud
Why, but why, do Republicans, CONSTANTLY, want to screw the little-gals and guys (Middle Class) over and over again.
Why do they constantly advocate cuts in salary, low wages, less benefits for us hard working blokes.
Look at the guy you all put back in office. My wife and I are feeling his 'love' for the middle class with ACA. My wife is looking into voluntarily dropping to 29 hours, dropping her health insurance and then being put on mine as a primary. The sad part? She'll be back to making the same net that she was BEFORE the ACA increases on her health insurance. And if you libs think the middle class is going to skate by without a tax hike next year, you have another thing coming. Also, check those EPA mandates coming up, and the UN carbon tax talks going on this week and next that obama is liking.
He doesn't have anything good in mind for the middle class. Or maybe you really aren't true middle class. My wife and I bring in less than 90k for a family of 3. Toss in mortgage, student loans, truck payment, medical bills, etc, etc, I'd say we are true middle class, and obama hasn't done us any favors. In fact he's been making our life quite a bit more difficult.
TomasGrande:
Thank you so much for your well thought out and informative posts. You always offer information in a concise, clear and honest manner. It is refreshing.
Keep the faith!
LOL ! D.Appel .... did you read the last line from Tomas in #4.12:
"They are all a bunch of mean old Scrooge poopy heads".
ROTFLMAO ... at you !! So this is included in what you refer to as "a well thought out and informative post" ?????? I haven't heard crap like that since Kindergarten ! I am so glad to get some insight into the "Progressive" mindset !
Alex-
Haven't you been enjoying the tax cuts the President signed into legislation shortly after he came into office?
Please read the ACA again. It was created to bring down out-of control insurance rates and inefficient administration costs as well as other cost saving measures.
Jim-
You do know sarcasm when you see it, don't you?
I sure do in your comment.
Have a nice day, Jim.
Salud
jim ....
I'm sure D.Appel was referring to ALL of Tomas' posts as he has a certain style of posting and a nice presentation of facts.
Your posts are also noteworthy as they are always the same and so full of sh*t!
Please read the ACA again. It was created to bring down out-of control insurance rates and inefficient administration costs as well as other cost saving measures.
I don't have to read it, my wife and I are feeling the real life effects of it. Inefficient administration costs??? How many new bureaucrats are being created due to ACA? How many new hires into the IRS due to ACA? Holy crap man, look at the lay offs, the loss of full time jobs and the growth of part time jobs, the rise in insurance premiums, eth 10s of 1000s of people added into medicaid. THOSE are the real life effects of it. I could give a @!$%# as to what it says, all I need is to see and feel the after effect.
Alex...How are you feeling the effects of something that will not go into effect completely until 2014? Are you really in an alternate, future universe or are you a liar that is suffering the effects of too much Limbaugh in the brain?
Please - show us your documented outrage when everyone's insurance premiums skyrocketed under Bush and the Republican congress. Since you pretend to care, I'm sure you went right through the ROOF back then!!
Wasn't it Emperor Norquist who recently came out with that "poopy head" remark?
Oh, it's over Grover.
Obviously - and like all of the other teabaggers - Alex was completely brain dead during the Bush years.
Does Boner ever listen to himself,the problem is in his mirror.
Reid--"I don't understand his brain", how could you, you don't have one yourself. God, he is an idiot!
You want to talk then lets talk about taxes first. Once we have an idea what our INCOME is going to be then we can work on budgets and cuts.
All the GOP wants to do is talk about saving the rich money and throwing cuts in the faces of the public, like they're actually trying to do anything. They're stalling, they've been stalling since Bush left and they'll continue until they have control again. Throw all of them out and lets move on because this country is having a hard time and they're not helping it.
Mike, Why talk about taxes first? Let's talk about cuts in federal spending, and lets audit all government agencies and programs and see how much can be saved, according to GAO it is in the billions. Then we can talk about raising taxes. You see the problem with raising taxes first, cuts never materialize, the government will always find reasons to spend the increased revenue.
Why not extend the Bush/Obama tax cuts for 6 months and let the NEW congressional committees, with WH input, work out spending cuts and revenue increases at the same time. After 6 months, if there is no deal, we go over the cliff and let all tax cuts expire.
Ya Jennifer, your posts have always been so thought-based.
The Republican leadership is trying to push SS cuts when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the current economics. They're squealing about entitlement cuts when they accused the President of "stealing" $716 billion from Medicare. Sounds hypocritical to me. And for some stupid reason known only to them, theyre stuck on not raising taxes on the wealthy when the wealthy say they're okay with it.
Oh, and they continue to bleat about "job killing taxes" when they darned well THAT has nothihg to do with the economy progressing. They're lying and you're buying it...
Chip - What makes you think that SS has absolutely NOTHING to do with the current economics? Of course it does, remember Presidents have been borrowing from the SS Trust funds for many years and when SS was taking in more than they paid out, the government just gave them an IOU. Now SS is NOT taking in enough to cover it's current payments, so the government has to repay the money they borrowed, but lo and behold the government now has to borrow money to pay back the money they owe SS. Further the President's "payroll tax" reduction didn't help the current SS problem.
As far as you stating the Republicans are stuck on not raising taxes on the wealthy is not true. The Republicans said they will raise taxes on the so called wealthy but it must be accompanied by spending cuts, can't have one without the other. BTW, the wealthy that say they're okay with a tax increase can raise their own taxes by paying more than what the current tax code requires.
Chip G, well said.
The GOP doesn't realize how ridiculous, hypocritical and ignorant they sound. Not sure which one of them proposed recently borrowing money from the social security trust to pay down the debt but it just proves how baseless their primary arguments are. If social security is in as much trouble as the GOP claims (which is is NOT), then why do they think there is money in the SS Trust for them to borrow?
sfcret, please, that is such a lame GOP talking point. One does not have to be done at the exact same time as the other. No one--even at the personal budget level--makes drastic cuts and changes to budgets UNTIL after they know what their revenues will be. If we follow the GOP logic of one must go hand in hand with the other, let's just slash all that money as was voted to do from defense, education, infrastructure, research before we know it's necessary--for the heck of it. That way, we can finish what Bush 43 and the GOP started, put us into a full depression.
Jody - Read this and sweep http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/updating-a-ruling-social-security-and-its-role-in-the-nations-debt/2012/11/29/1cd3e8aa-3a68-11e2-8a97-363b0f9a0ab3_blog.html?wpisrc=nl_pmpolitics
So, the Boner is disappointed. So am I. It was W and the Republican-controlled Congress that created this doomsday scenario back in 2000 when they got their ten-year plus reduction in income tax rates. So if we go off the fiscal cliff on December 31, it is nobody's fault but the Republican Party. As a member of the middle-class, I will really hold it against Boner and his party if my income tax rates increase back to the Clinton-era rates.
Still Working, the Republican Party are hell bent on blaming democrats for anything and everything.
The first step to recovery is to admit mistakes. Republicans will never do it, hence, they will never be responsible and instead will just continue to pass the buck and point fingers elsewhere.
Boehner to my understanding has a drinking problem. There's a clue right there.
....in 2000 when they got their ten-year plus reduction in income tax rates....As a member of the middle-class, I will really hold it against Boner and his party if my income tax rates increase back to the Clinton-era rates.
Help me understand your hypocrisy - the Bush tax cuts were a terrible idea, but you will be really upset if they are allowed to expire. The Clinton years were great, with fair tax rates and policies and allegedly balanced budgets (as long as you keep the SS surplus in the budget), but allowing the Bush modifications (cuts) to expire is a tragedy.
As a member of the middle-class, too, I will definitely take a hit - probably a difference of $400+ per month when the Bush tax cuts and the temp SS cut expire - but that is the price to be paid for returning to the glorious Clinton era.
What I think you are really saying is that you want the best of both worlds - the Bush era tax rates for you, and the Clinton era rates for others. You having a lower tax rate than the Clinton era is more important than decreasing - or at least holding level - the debt that will be passed on to our future generations.
Or should we do the right thing - a Reaganesque rewrite of the tax code. Take away ALL deductions, and pay a flat 15% on everything over 30K. No joint filing for marrieds (I currently get a big break for being married with single income), everything is on an individual basis. You have income of any kind - you pay 15% on everything over 30K. Corporations pay 15% on the gross with the same 30K exemption and nothing else - just as individuals do.
SS, Medicare, etc taxes (highly regressive taxes) are eliminated as are all other federal taxes except import duties. SS, Medicare, Medicaid are all funded out of the general fund (which they really are anyway). Gets rid of the lie about prepaid insurance. The benefits are taxable anyway once you pass the 30K threshold for total income.
All of a sudden, there are no favored classes of people. You could actually vote your conscience instead of trying to hold on to your special interest group's favored status. IRS would have a much easier task - just show the income. A 15% rate isn't worth setting up a lot of dodges. People would make sensible decisions about how to invest, use, and spend their money because there would be no tax impact. But I can only dream....
Obama already said he wants to spend all of the new revenue on "investments in education, science, technology, and teachers"
Just code word for tax and spend, tax and spend. Obama has no urgency to cut any part of government.
So brendan you prefer borrow and spend over tax and spend?
Borrowing from COMMUNIST China to pay for Georgie's little wars and sending jobs of those who would be contributing to the tax collection instead of needing help to feed their kids is okay with you? Typical!
I heard that the DoD is twice as big now as it was in 2000. That sounds like a really good place to start cutting because that money is going overseas and is not helping the American economy.
Investing in education, science, technology, and teachers on the other hand is money that stays here at home and generates jobs. And then thee is our wore out infrastructure like bridges, roads, and piping systems that are in deperate need of repair. Hey. that sounds like the New Deal, which created 9% growth during most of the 1930s.
David Sirota: FDR Prolonged the Depression? Really? - Truthdig
Funny how all the liberals blame the Repubs when Obama & Reid control everything and have not proposed anything for cuts. They have no intention of cutting. They just want to raise taxes.
Mike's comment above is a clear example of Liberals refusing to do anything...they just want taxes.
You're in the driver's seat. You own this economy. And you're refusing to cut anything. This is 100% the liberals fault.
But, the liberals will just blame republicans. Cut first and cut until it hurts....Then raise taxes. You've got a spending problem...How do I know? Because your tax increase will not pay for 1 year's deficit spending. It's simple finance.
paws: It is the House that has a spending problem....a president does not make the budget or allocate spending, the House and Senate does.
Boehner said when Repubs took over the House that jobs, jobs, jobs would be his main priority but where are the jobs??? Boehner's focus, like that of McConnell was to make President Obama a one term president....they failed at that and are now sucking sour grapes....American's aren't buying their lies.
Just like last time, Americans will see Repubs as the cause of problems if they aren't willing to negotiate in good faith...which, apparently they aren't.
But Dragon, the lowest employment figure was in July 2010. Supposedly since then, the POTUS has "created" 5.5 million jobs. Seems to me we have jobs with the GOP controlling the House since January 2011. Maybe not enough but, jobs.
Based on your comments you certainly understand "simple"!
Eh? Unemployment peaked in October 2009 at 10% and has been dropping ever since. The stimulus has had a lot to do with it too. Another stimulus is needed and has been sitting on Boner's desk for 2 years now.
boehner is the biggest pain in the you know what. He's rich, (probably from insider trading) he doesn't care about the 99%, he just want to keep lining his pockets with his cronys. the world would be a better place without him, and some of his constituants. the GOP has wasted 4 years waiting for an election, knowing they had it in their pocket, not cooperating with the dems, and not helping the citizens of the us.
Poor "paws"...Is it Rush or Hannity that is feeding you that idiotic "it's you lib-rahls problem" line that is being repeated since you were humiliated November 6th?
Do you know where your library is? Find your way there and do a minimal amount of research into how a budget is created and passed by the Federal Government.
When you and your fellow minions repeat idiotic slogans without even having the slightest idea as to how our government works, you should not be surprised when people compare you to the nazis.
Let them hae everything they want! No republican fingerprints. Ask them to double down on all of it. I want to see this agenda in full motion before the swing into 2014 mid terms with not one republican finerprint on it.
Huh? How do you propose the GOP controlled House pass legislation without their being any republican fingerprints on it? There aren't 218 democrats to pass anything in the House unless some repubs vote YEA.
"shesafatone"....um...Do you know how our government works? I'm beginning to think that the Republicans lost the elections because the teabaggers hadn't quite figured out that you have to actually cast a vote for your vote to be counted.
Tell you what, "shesafatone"...You stop sending idiot Republicans to Congress, and we'll be happier than hell to pass all kinds of legislation without their fingerprints on them.
Deal?
Shocked ....
One of the BEST posts of the DAY! Thank you for so eloquently stating what needs to be heard!
Thanks, Layton! I can't, however, take the credit. "shesafatone" shot him/herself in the foot. I just ran with it.
In a rare support of Republicans (my support), I will concede that raising the debt ceiling should not be an option. That is a road to nowhere good at this point.
We should look at spending cuts and raising the marginal tax rate of folks about $250k sure...but lets not forget the corporate entitlements and military spending (especially, military bases in countries who can defend themselves), etc. There is so much corporate socialism we could do away with, that would pale the amount we would save cutting into social programs.
With regard to social programs, I believe the cuts to these should occur at the infrastructure and management side, not to mention (again) the embedded corporate subsidies in these programs.
It is too bad that Fiscal Republicans are saddled with the religious right, the Tea Party and Grover Norquist. There could really be an opportunity to work toward smaller government here, and cut out the corporate socialism, but the pragmatic Republicans are being drowned out by the fringe crazies who still think they won the election.
Wow. Complete heresy to the orthodox liberal line. You couldn't find 1 Democratic senator who is against raising the debt ceiling when it comes up again this year.
Your imaginary corporate welfare to social welfare ratios don't exist, but let's not argue that point.
You're right about how much of the money flowing to people on handouts is wasted in processing. The OC register did a study showing that we pay out $61,000 a year for every poor person in America in various handout programs, and they're only receiving maybe $20-$30,000 of that, so clearly we have a lot of overpriced government workers mismanaging these programs.
Not to mention all the undeserving people we could throw off the programs who are getting assistance--wouldn't that be fun!
What? you have never heard of socially liberal and fiscally conservative? There are many...
Just go over the cliff an be done with it.
At this point it's a huge tax increase, and the GOP can either negotiate to cut tax rates again or not.
If they don't Obama needs to be prepared to take strong executive action to minimize harm to the economy.
This is a battle for control of the country between the President, and the party that he defeated but won't accept the outcome of the election.
The one really negative impact of allowing that to happen, other than the recession - which I think would be a relatively transitional type of thing as most recessions are - would be that it would prompt Moody's and the other credit agencies to issue a credit downgrade. That would probably cause a spike in interest rates that would result in our relatively manageable current interest payments to become less manageable very quickly.
As much as I personally think it would benefit the nation to allow the sequestration to happen and then to allow congress to continue along its instinctive posture of non-cooperation and therefore allow ALL of the 2001/3 tax cuts to expire forever and thereby solve much of the current revenue problem, a lot of the benefit that would be gained from doing so would evaporate quickly, because our ability to use our tax dollars for what we want would be squeezed again if interest payments doubled or even tripled.
Michael Thompson, Charlotte, NC
As will not raising the debt ceiling at this point and it will not just be S&P doing so this time.
Let the next recession happen, let everything they want happen! And as I said double down on the timetable. Lets see whether we have a thouroughbred or a glue horse. BUT, all republicans keep your hands off of ANYTHING. Leave no footprints behind, so there is NO mistake who's plan this is. Handle this like I did with my ex wife..... smile and say Yes Dear, while the legal docs are drawn up!
Shestafone, again I say HUH? The GOP controls the House, there are not 218 democrats to pass any legislation without republican fingerprints; therefore, IF the GOP does nothing, it falls in the GOP's laps--NO MISTAKE about it. Your comment doesn't even make sense let alone show any thought as to who would pay the consequences--good thing someone else drew up those legal docs for you.
Just from a purely practical point of view I don't see the down side for Obama. The republicans are holding out to make sure the top 1% taxes are not increased. Polls show 70% of voters think those taxes should be increased. If going over the fiscal cliff is bad republicans will be blamed and Obama will have a whole new group to deal with after the next election. If nothing happens Obama is still president. I don't see the upside for conservatives in this debate unless they can sell the public that taxes and entitlement programs are a matter of morallity. Maybe they can but I would not want to have to fight that fight for them.
Ron: I agree, President Obama is holding the cards, and GOP is acting like whiners, just has they've been doing the past 4 years, and one reason they lost the WH and lost seats in Congress.
I say let's go over that cliff, from what I've read and heard, it is not a cliff but a curve, everything won't suddenly stop....the pain won't be felt immediately.
So let's go over the cliff and let the new Congress work with President Obama on the budget.
Ron, Apparently you have been asleep for awhile. Obama talked about raising taxes on the 1% BEFORE the election .... now that it is over and he is not hindered by his prior rhetoric, Obama has quickly changed it to the top 2% ! Give him a month or so, and it will be at 4%, because raising taxes on the top 1 or 2% does virtually nothing !!
Besides, I think Obama INTENDS to let the "Bush Tax Cuts" expire for EVERYBODY !!! That way he will have more to redistribute.
Yes! Push those radical right wingers off the cliff!
Then after Dirty Harry Reid fixes the filibuster rules we can get some actual work out of those do nothing whiners and fix this debt problem.
Would that include those same filibuster rules Harry Reid WHINED about back in 2005 ?
Ayup! They were bad then and they are bad now. Endit.
Bonehead Boehner and the ignorant Republicans better wake up and get the matter reconciled as the voters (constituents) have directed it be done, taxexes on the top 2% increase to 40% on income over $250,000.00, taxes on 98% and 97% of small business owners stay at the present rates.
Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are not to be touched !
Pentagon Budget to be substantialy reduced !
Sure.....reduce the military budget. Do what ever you want.... Republicans No finger prints on anything! let them do what ever they want. Just make sure none of you can be blamed for any of it.
Again, "fatone"...You've shot yourself in the foot. The only way legislation can be passed is with Republican "fingerprints". Vote them all out and we'll let you have your way. OK?
Hey Boner, keep it up. I love it, because this is the start of the demise of the Republican party.
Any deal that touches Obamacare, Social Security or raises the age for Medicare eligibility should be rejected outright and if we go over the cliff, so be it. Social Security is not a current driver of the deficit and can be kept solvent over the long terms with a few tweaks. Obamacare cuts the deficit over the long run and if anything is on the table there, it should be a public option or Medicare buy-in. Medicare does need to be addressed but raising the minimum age or making it a voucher program will not cut it. If it needs more money, raise the payroll tax from 1.45%. Better yet, figure out what the payroll tax rates would need to be to cover everyone and tell the insurance companies to pound sand!
We have to completely overhaul your failed Medi-Scare program. Democrats should be unelectable based on their miserable performance in regards to Medicare. We take in 1 tax dollar for every 3 we pay out in benefits, so clearly the chimps hired to create the program in the 60's and who've managed the program to date do not really qualify as human, at least intelligence-wise.
We need to do one of the following:
a) end this horrible program today, cover old people thru the general fund and give all unretired people a pro-rated check for what they've paid in up till now
b) allow anyone who wants to, to opt out of the program, keep their payroll taxes every paycheck that pay for it, and keep most of what their employer matches, and then buy their own insurance in retirement. Triple the taxes on anyone who stays in.
c) Triple the Medicare taxes on everyone. Yes, it sucks, but hey, Democrats are stupid and set up a horrible, failed program that has to be paid for.
d) do a combination of raised Medicare taxes and raised retirement age for when you can start receiving them. Like doubling Medi-scare taxes and not allowing Medicare benefits till 70 or something.
No good options exist for keeping the program around, but that's just the price of having the Democratic Party in existence in America.
If you think that Obamacare cuts the deficit, I have some land in South Florida for you. All you do is suggest to raise taxes. The demographics of our aging population are a actuarial nightmare, but people like you refuse to confront that. Raising taxes to fund Medicare will not help our economy.
Funny, the CBO and other non-partisan think tanks say that we will actually SAVE money on the dificit with Obamacare. It is jerkfaces like Rush Limbaugh who poison the minds of people into believing such lies that Obamacare raises deficits.
ChestyPuller
Well, you could try something like they do in Canada and then pay 50 cents on the dollar ... nah too simple, and anyway your insurance salesman's wife needs a new fur coat.
Davsie, the only way to show them is to let them push it all out. Keep the republican fingers out and let them implement their plan before the 2014 midterms. Its critical that republicans do NOT appear to stop any of it. The first Soupy Sales pie to hit will be the cut back of UE to 27 weeks. And since the UE rate will go up because companies are planning to lay off people we will have lots and lots of very happy people. And again keep republican fingers off anything that would appear to be stopping anything they do!
Social Security is solvent until 3030 and Medicare is easily fixable by raising the contribution ceiling. They are not part of the problem and should be left out of the equations.
The Military/Industrial Complex on the other hand.................There is a huge amount of waste and fraud there that needs cutting with a chain saw. Counting the costs of the interest on the war debt they account for over 50% of the total budget.
The Federal Pie Chart
Doesn't Boehner and the Tea Bags understand that it is the Middle Class that drives the economy? Burden the middle class with less disposable income less widgets are bought, less widgets produced, lower GDP, lower spending power less production, less need for employees ergo the economy in the crapper. A 3%-5% tax on the rich and uber-rich is nothing but a slight annoyance, no real change in their lifestyles or spending power, they still have the ability to spend and invest, not so for the middle class. What is wrong with these people that Norquist comes before the Nation.
Any sane Americans know that Medicare and Medicaid need to be reformed, but in a responsible, balanced manner. Slash and burn not an option. Social Security does not impact the deficit and is solvent until 2034 no wrangling on that issue.
Get moving on the peoples business and leave Grover and Ideologies at the door. Get on with it.
skyparrot, I think a lot of this is just posturing for the cameras. There appears to be progress behind the scenes.
We'll see.
None of you has said where the rest of the money will come from! You could take all the rich and uber rich peoples money and you still dont have enough. But it doesnt really make a difference, because I think we should double down on your plan. Let the Democrats push their agenda, the only way to see if it works is to let it all happen. Republicans do not block anything, in fact lets accomodate a fast track for this plan so we can see results before the mid terms in 2014!
Military/Industrial Complex.
The Federal Pie Chart
I'm starting to see what a two-faced liar President Obama is.
His policies that have actually been signed into law have been pretty standard Democrat stuff, nothing too far left, so it was easy to call him just a typical leftwinger in deed, if not in mindset up till now.
But that's just in front of the cameras, behind the scenes he's the same far left liberal he was in the Senate and before, and we're seeing this in the budget negotiations right now.
You can see the pattern with Obama and his routine. In public, he says things he doesn't believe in, and then in private he tilts far to the left.
Case in point, he just went in front of the cameras this week and said he wanted a "balanced approach" on the budget.
Meanwhile, we find out that his and Democrats' version of "balance" is no cuts in the welfare state, and hiking taxes on 2% of the population. That's "balanced". The $80 billion (minus what we lose in revenue from the negative economic impact) will do barely anything to get the $1 trillion deficit erased, it's a fig leaf for class warfare losers that solves none of our problems.
You start to see this pattern a lot with this two-faced liar. He does a performance on TV where he's supposed to be some kind of centrist/moderate/etc, and then goes and does something else.
Chesty, Which is why I only see one way out of this. Let them double down on their agenda. Get it going ......come on show us what you can do. Race house or glue horse..... We want to see productions figures before the mid terms.
The Congressional Research Office report on tax cuts and economic growth/jobs.
The results of the analysis suggest that changes over the past 65 years in the top marginal tax rate and the top capital gains tax rate do not appear correlated with economic growth. The reduction in the top tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment, and productivity growth. The top tax rates appear to have little or no relation to the size of the economic pie.
However, the top tax rate reductions appear to be associated with the increasing concentration of income at the top of the income distribution. As measured by IRS data, the share of income accruing to the top 0.1% of U.S. families increased from 4.2% in 1945 to 12.3% by 2007 before falling to 9.2% due to the 2007-2009 recession. At the same time, the average tax rate paid by the top 0.1% fell from over 50% in 1945 to about 25% in 2009. Tax policy could have a relation to how the economic pie is sliced—lower top tax rates may be associated with greater income disparities.
Democrats have escalated the movement of wealth to the top 10-20% through their failed Welfare State.
Guess what, stupid Democrats? Those people dependent on government, which you keep trying to increase, are never going to be wealthy. They're not going to save money. They're going to be kept in a mediocre holding pattern their entire lives.
If they were out fending for themselves, many of them would accumulate wealth over their lifetimes.
The more people who depend on government, the lower the amount of wealth held by the bottom half. What does someone on welfare save?
That was the September 2012 report that showed that "trickle down economics" did NOT appreciably stimulate the economy. In short, the only major thing it did was significantly and dramatically increase the income disparity between the top 1% and the rest of Americans.
It showed that the justifications or reasons for implementing trickle down economic based policies were false. It did NOT create the jobs or the economic opportunity for all as we were promised.
So MAthew......Do it your way......show us it works. Double down and move it show us significant growth before the mid terms.
Your tinkle upon economics has a 30 year record of failure. Look where it got us! It is called the Great Recession.
U.S. National Debt Graph + Voodoo-Economics Slides
Shesa - Ok, let's provide you some proof by looking at what the current President has acomplished in spite of the obstructionism from Congress:
The recession was ended; the cost of the wars and Medicare Part D have been put onto the books (honest and more accurate accounting) instead of ignored; we have positive hiring growth instead of losing 700,000 jobs a month due to the previous adminstrations policies AND the impacts from de-regulation; the economic/banking sector was saved from collapse; our economy is being increasingly diversified; our domestic energy sector is producing more oil/natural gas and thereby reducing our dependence on foreign resources; we have positive GDP growth (yes, it's low, but it's positive and not contracting).
Btw, the CBO has shown that PPACA will decrease the deficit and that the stimulous worked.
So now Shesa, what part of this is bad?
Thank you J Willard! We need to keep talking about the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service Report 7-5700, H427729 which the Repubs suppressed. Senate Repub aides said "they had protested both the tone of the report and its findings." It was entitled Taxes and the Economy: An Economic Analysis of the Top Tax Rates since 1945. The conclusion was "There is not conclusive evidence ... to substantiate a clear relationship between the 65-year steady reduction in the top tax rates and economic growth." At every opportunity we must remind everyone we can about this and not let Repubs bury the important facts therein. It totally obliterates their reason for being.
so let me get this straight, they want to raise taxes and not cut spending?
No, here is what the repubs want... Cut all social safety net programs down to nothing, in order to finance even more tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. And no corporate taxes or inheritance taxes. In short, move as much as possible of America's income to the 1% royalty until all of us peasants are living like they do in India.
Wow so the election of Barry means he has a mandate? Well then the Republicans have a mandate too becasue they won re-election as well.
obam wants to raise taxes so he can raise entitlements. He wants the House to sign off it on it so he has some one to blame. After four years of NO LEADERSHIP, the Campaigner in Chief is back and once again we have NO LEADERSHIP.
This is like your wife putting on a chastity belt and then complaining that she's "disappointed" cause she never gets laid.
The Liberals just want to blame all on the right again. Obama doesn't have a plan. Let the libs go with his non-plan and see how far it gets them. Who will Obama blame the mess on then?
gonecrazytoo, the liberals are willing to compromise.
Let us know when the GOP is. Because we're not seeing it.
Nope Pat......I say give in! you guys do what you want. Show us what you got! Only double down so we can see this thing work. Ive written my republican Senators and congresspeople and asked them to NOT block anything, in fact capitulate to everything and make sure NO republican fingerprints are not on anything they can be blamed for. I want a pure look at how this agrenda works. And please do it before the mid terms. Your turn lets see some progress!
If only you could get the speaker of the house to go along with your program. We'd all agree he's a Stand Up Guy.
Yep.....you republicans have One Stand Up Boner!
I find it interesting (and frankly a little pathetic) that shesafatone has but one thought that (I'm sure is a) he keeps repeating ad nauseum. That is afterall the true modus operandi of the RWNJs. Keep repeating and repeating what you say and people will believe it's true. Fortunately for us the only ones buying this is the koolaide drinking RWNJs. He's been called out on this numerous times reminding him that the House will have to pass anything thereby putting "republican fingerprints" ALL OVER IT!!! This thereby proves that you can lead a thirsty jackass to water but some just won't drink because of their own stupidity.
Hannah - the scary thing is, it is not even "shesafatone"'s original thought. Several of the other regular minions are saying the same thing. I'm not sure which AM radio/Fox blowhard nazi planted the idea in their little pea brains, but they were obviously depending on their audience to be completely ignorant as to how the government works.
Let's convince "shesafatone" the he/she needs to start the grassroots movement to remove ALL Republicans from our government so that their "fingerprints" will never be on any future legislation. I honestly think it will work!! ;)
Is it my imagination, or have the teabaggers become even dumber since the election?? Is it some sort of right wing PTSD???
shocked,
"Let's convince "shesafatone" the he/she needs to start the grassroots movement to remove ALL Republicans from our government so that their "fingerprints" will never be on any future legislation."
Ya, real smart idea. Make this countrys' political system a one party system. Just how STUPID can a person get and still remain alive?
Dearest little "richard" - Sounds to me like you need to have a conversation with the "fatone". Don't cry to me because one of your own says something you don't like. Better yet, find the nazi on AM Radio/Fox that fed "fatone" the idea in the first place and take it up with them. You know...that "resposibility" concept that your side seems to forget...
I'd feel sorry for you, but it's your own damn fault for allying yourself with such stupid people. Stop being so lazy and clean your own house before you start pointing your nasty little finger at others.
You tell me, "richard". I'm amazed you and the "fatone" can even find the "on" switch on a computer!!