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Subscribe to RSSThe Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd talks about President Barack Obama's efforts to ensure a compromise is made before the deadline.
Both sides begin to manage fiscal-cliff expectations for their bases… GOP Rep. Tom Cole: In the short term, Republicans would be better off extending the Bush tax cuts for everyone BUT the wealthy… Dick Durbin: Entitlements, in some form or fashion, will be on the table… New WaPo/ABC poll shows two-thirds oppose raising Medicare’s eligibility age… Susan Rice’s meeting with McCain/Graham/Ayotte didn’t go well… And brace yourselves from Cuccinelli vs. McAuliffe.
*** Managing expectations: We wrote yesterday that the current fiscal discussions essentially amounted to running in circles, because the real negotiations won’t take place until mid-to-late December. The reason: Washington typically needs hard deadlines to force members to act. But there is something quite significant that’s going on during this running-in-circles period. Republicans and Democrats are beginning to prepare their own bases for what the deal will ultimately look like. That’s perhaps the best way to describe the news that GOP Rep. Tom Cole, a former National Republican Congressional Committee chairman, told some GOP colleagues that the party would hold a stronger hand if Republicans backed President Obama’s idea to immediately extend the so-called Bush tax cuts for everyone BUT the wealthiest. “I think we ought to take the 98% deal right now,” he told Politico. “It doesn’t mean I agree with raising the top 2%. I don’t.” Translation: House Republicans right now don’t have the upper hand in the negotiations, and they’re going to have to grapple with raising rates, at least in the short term. And Cole is actually giving them a way out of this box, short term, which is do the de-couple on rates and live to fight another day.
J. Scott Applewhite / AP
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Ky., center, accompanied by Sen. John Barrasso, R-Wyo., left, and Sen. John Thune, R-S.D., gestures while speaking to reporters on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, Nov, 27, 2012, following a GOP strategy luncheon.
*** Tom Cole vs. Dick Durbin: And it’s just not Republicans who are trying to prepare their bases for what a deal might look like. Here’s the New York Times on Sen. Dick Durbin’s speech yesterday to the liberal-leaning Center for American Progress: “He made clear that the parties agreed on what a final deal would look like: an initial deficit-reduction down payment to calm financial markets and avoid most of the fiscal jolt that would otherwise hit in January; instructions to congressional committees to draft tax, spending and entitlement legislation to save around $4 trillion over the next decade; and some form of fallback deficit plan in case Congress fails to pass those changes.” But it’s what Durbin said -- or didn’t say -- about entitlements that was striking. His prepared remarks read, "Progressives should be willing to talk about ways to ensure the long-term viability of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, but those conversations should not be part of a plan to avert the fiscal cliff," Durbin said. Yet he didn’t say that in his speech. But he later clarified that those entitlement conversations shouldn’t be part of the down payment, but rather as part of the longer-term deal. Translation to liberals: Entitlements, in some form or fashion, will need to be on the table, and it’s going to be something you won’t like but that’s the price of not controlling the House.
Top Talkers: On Tuesday, November 27, 2012, U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice met with GOP leaders over her version of the Sept. 11 attack in Benghazi, Libya. The Morning Joe panel – including New York Magazine's John Heilemann, NBC News' Andrea Mitchell and Mike Barnicle – discusses the continuing controversy and whether or not GOP Sens. McCain, Ayotte and Graham are entering the fray for political reasons.
*** The public: Don’t raise Medicare’s eligibility age: But when discussing Medicare, there’s something the public is adamantly against -- raising the eligibility age. Per a new Washington Post/ABC poll, 67% oppose increasing the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67. On the other hand, 60% favor raising taxes on incomes more than $250,000, but there’s a partisan split. “While 73 percent of Democrats and 63 percent of independents are in favor, far fewer Republicans, 39 percent, agree.” We’ve said it before and we’ll say it again: Both parties have done such a good job demagogue-ing Medicare over the years (see ’96, ’10, ’12) that it’s made the program arguably more untouchable than Social Security, at least politically.
*** Rice’s meeting didn’t go well: Turning to the other big Washington story -- Susan Rice’s meeting yesterday with Sens. John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Kelly Ayotte -- let’s not pretend it went well. The Washington Post: “What was supposed to be a make-nice meeting on Tuesday seemed only to make things more contentious between the White House and Senate Republicans over U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice’s comments following the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi, Libya… ‘Bottom line, I’m more disturbed now than I was before,’ said Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (S.C.).” But Rice and the Obama White House did get some good news from outgoing Sen. Joe Lieberman, who also met with Rice. “‘I’ve interrogated and cross-examined a lot of witnesses in my day, but I felt she was telling me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth based on that and corroborated by the director of the CIA,’ Lieberman said. ‘I don’t see a basis for disqualifying Susan Rice for some other position in our government.’” Remember, Lieberman, as a former member of the McCain-Graham three amigos clan, is an influential voice. And it also sends the signal that Rice might have all the votes she needs. If she’s got Lieberman’s support, what Democrat would be against her?
*** Ayotte, Graham pledge holds; Dems vow to fight for her: Additionally, Ayotte and Graham would place a hold on a Susan Rice nomination to be secretary of state, aides to the senators told NBC News yesterday. Democrats, though, tell NBC they’re ready and willing to fight for Rice and believe they could overcome those holds. Anyone who thinks that John McCain, Ayotte, and Graham’s caustic reaction to their meeting with Rice yesterday gives Democrats any pause on Rice’s nomination, should think again, according to a Democratic Senate aide. “People are happy to fight for her,” the aide said, adding, "This is getting people’s back up. The general sense of the mood is this is ridiculous. She’s obviously qualified.” The aide also questioned whether Republicans besides McCain, Graham, and Ayotte would think this is a “smart fight to pick” given Rice’s qualifications and that this would mean a “high-profile fight with a qualified African-American woman.” As to the threat of holds from Ayotte and Graham, the aide said that if Rice is nominated and presents well at her confirmation hearing, there’s a “good chance cooler heads prevail” and there would be more than enough votes to confirm her. That would make Ayotte and Graham’s holds “moot” once it goes to a cloture vote, the aide said, because “either we have the votes or we don’t.”
*** Get ready for Cuccinelli vs. McAuliffe: Lastly, Virginia Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling is expected to drop out of next year’s gubernatorial race, meaning that the race will likely be Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli (R) vs. Terry McAuliffe (D). Politico: “Bolling, now in his second term as lieutenant governor, was widely seen as the underdog against the conservative Cuccinelli, whose supporters engineered a move to change the 2013 nominating process from a primary to a convention. Conservatives typically dominate Virginia GOP conventions.” While this year’s Tim Kaine-vs.-George Allen Senate contest didn’t produce any real fireworks – the two men seemed to respect each other – a Cuccinelli-vs.-McAuliffe race will be NASTY and EXPENSIVE. Folks, it’s going to be personal, ugly, and divisive. As one veteran Virginia GOP operative told First Read: “This will be the least inspiring race for governor Virginians have seen in a long time.” By the way, the joke among operatives on both sides for months on McAuliffe and Cuccinelli has been, the only chance either has to become governor is if their opponent in the general election is each other. This campaign has all the signs of being a race to the bottom, will the C.W. be wrong?
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Leave a Comment:
So I'm
Folks are plain tired of the Republican politics of inequality and minority suppression.
WOMEN appreciate that Ms. Rice is not responsible for what happened in Benghazi. She isn't guilty of not having all the answers to causes and conditions on cue, to satisfy the whims of GOP. Nor does she call the shots on national security. Or decide which information is classified.
LOTS OF WOMEN understand that via Graham, McCain and Ayotte - GOP is busy constructing one more glass ceiling, one more obstacle, one more male piggery obstruction to the future of a brilliant and hardworking young woman.
Regardless of who President Obama chooses to nominate for Secretary of State:
Let us respectfully ask McCain, Graham and Ayotte to submit their "troubling questions" in writing for us ALL to see.
They also realize the Democrats are already guilty of constructing such a glass ceiling when they picked a neophyte two year Senator over an more experienced, more qualified woman in Hillary Clinton.
I have to laugh at the lefty liberal morons that are saying the Republican’s should give them everything they want by passing the Senate bill extending the Bush-Obama tax cuts for those under $250,000, and then “later” they will discuss spending cuts. I know lefty liberals think conservatives are stupid, and accepting a deal like that would surely prove them right. In negotiations “nothing is done until everything is done”.
Lefty liberals are claiming there’s not time to properly consider spending cuts in the lame duck period. Fine. The House Republican’s should be very “gracious”, and, in the spirit of bipartisanship, provide the Dems time to “properly consider spending cuts” by passing a short term extension of the existing tax law for whatever amount of time the Dems specify. Then send the bill over to the Senate who can pass it or not, and if passed, Barry can veto it or not. If the Dems fail to pass or sign it, the blame is clearly where it belongs: on the lefty liberal Dems.
If passed by the Senate and signed by Barry, the middle class is protected from any tax increases due to the expiration of the Bush-Obama tax cuts on 12/31/12 and the Dems get whatever time they want to “properly consider spending cuts”. The only goal not met by this plan is the lefty liberal blood-lust for punishing the “rich” by raising their taxes while trying to pull a fast one by not ever acting on any spending cuts.
Gee, that’s too bad for the lefty liberals. But, it’s good for the American people
First Read: "The White House plans to promote (hashtag)My2K on Twitter and other social media — a reference to the estimated $2,200 tax increase that a typical middle-class family of four would see if the Bush tax cuts expire."
So are you foilks for higher taxes or against them?
Are you for the Obama/Bush tax cuts or agianst them?
Why is taxinfg some people more OK? What factors went into deciding the line of delineation between ricj=h and middle calss was $250,000?
Why do you folks think taxing 1% Americans will solve all our debt problems?
Why won't you folks or this President realize we can't spend more than we take in?
My 6th grade daughter understands that she can't buy more things than her allowance lets her.
Why can't you folks grasp this simple concept?
Joe in Albany
Those lefty liberals are 51% and growing in numbers of the American people.
Ambassador Rice is of course, eminently qualified.
And Secretary of State Hilary Clinton is allegedly stepping down. You are confused.
I see James Hoffa is the latest Democrat to say that we should go over the fiscal cliff. I say bring it on. The broadening of the tax base, the removal of the 10% tax bracket and the cut in the EITC will all help the deficit. I also expect those lay-off notices that defense contractors sat on over the election to go out just before Christmas.
After the new year when we see that the deficit is still over $700B with no prospect of dropping people may realize that we can't keep Medicare as we know it by "taxing the rich a little more". Maybe then we can get some pollsters to ask if you want YOUR, not somebody else's, taxes to go up to pay for the government you want.
It seems you're the stupid moron. "Republican's" is possessive; "Republicans" is plural.
Ad nauseum . . . .
Your jaw drops. Disbelief hits you like a hammer. You couldn't possibly have heard what you thought you heard. It's not just wrong, not just crazy, not just stupid, it simply cannot happen. Yes it can! There is a huge number of people - some of them your neighbors - and they flatly deny facts and they deny reality.
On a national stage, we see three Senators using television to advertise their profound stupidity. John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Kelly Ayotte don't like Susan Rice, the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations. She lied, they say. Yet, every single intelligence agency confirms her story. The transcript of her remarks is available to anyone who wishes to look. Ms. Rice did not lie. The facts directly contradict the three blind mice - McCain, Graham, and Ayotte.
Yet, they scream their insanity in an alternate reality and they are not alone. Fox continues to treat this as a legitimate issue and each day sends forth its minions to repeat outright lies. They are impervious to fact. You see them here, each and every day.
Mitch McConnell, who has made his living at the government trough, whines that Democrats have the unmitigated gall, the naked temerity to say a majority might have relevance. Not in his universe. Depriving the minority of control is tyranny. The minority should be able to stop any and all progress. Where did you hear this silliness about majority rules? The Constitution?
Who is keeping Congress from enacting a budget? Well, according to the right wing, it's the President. He hasn't submitted a budget proposal. That's not true, of course. The President has submitted proposals time and again. Republicans don't do facts.
Well, it's Senator Patty Murray. She's the one who wants to drive the nation off the fiscal cliff. That's not true, of course. The Constitution specifically states that the House shall originate all revenue bills. Boehner and company have not done that. What did happen was that Boehner gave Senator Murray the aces and trump cards in a game Republicans love - Brinksmanship. They gave her the cards and that just makes them so mad they're going to hold their breath and have a tantrum. They'll hold the debt ceiling hostage.
It is tempting to label this as nothing more than nonsense, but nonsense is far too benign a term to describe this behavior. It is reckless and very, very dangerous. This comes from the people who deny that racism is a factor in the vicious hatred of the President. Oh stop! Racists are too stupid to hide their agenda. We see it right here. Oh no, there is no attempt to suppress the Democratic vote. Please. They've admitted it on national TV.
You cannot reason with people who deny facts. You recognize them for the threat they are, and recruit. We cannot allow a repeat of 2010, when lazy Dems and lefties stayed home, and allowed Republicans to gerrymander.
Moderate Republicans and genuine GOP conservatives do not have the moral strength to cut out this right wing cancer that has denied the party its role as the loyal opposition. They are now simply the disloyal opposition and they must be crushed.
So, this is reportedly Durbins view......
Yet, the article states that the public is not in favor a raising the age for MEDICARE from 65 to 67.
Why is there no mention of how Conservatives feel, guess that group is rolled up into the "public".
Looks like the Pigs are trying to eat Rice and the American people are getting sick of the wriggle !!!
Alan - I say bring it on
I'm with you Alan, bring it on.
Better yet, let's give Obama and his lackeys everything they want. I mean everything.
Tax away, shut down the Oil Fields, Save the Planet, Increase welfare, Let energy prices skyrocket.
Give it all to them and let them see the consequences.
It's the only way they will see the folly of their desires.
Then who will they blame?
Let's Get This Party Started
~snippets~
President Barack Obama is talking this week with small-business owners, Wall Street honchos and middle-class taxpayers before flying to Pennsylvania on Friday to see a toy manufacturer. House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and his leadership team are consulting with the some of the same executives who are meeting with Obama.
“It seems like our friends on the other side are having some difficulty turning off the campaign,” Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) told reporters Tuesday. “We need to sit down and work this matter out. I think we have a clear sense that there’s an opportunity here at the end of the year to do something important for the country. … So I would hope our friends on the other side can kind of turn off the campaign and get into a cooperative mode here to reach a conclusion.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/84307.html#ixzz2DWu6Ynpg
LMAO, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell actually thinks President Obama would waste his time talking to those buffons. Crazy is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. President Obama is hardly crazy. He bent over backwards trying to get the GOP/ Tea Baggers to work with him.
Is it just me, or are the right wing drama queens out in full force today? lol
WHAAAAAA!
Some are so worked up, they have been rendered incoherant!
Backhouse
Ambassador Rice is of course, eminently qualified.
And Secretary of State Hilary Clinton is allegedly stepping down. You are confused.
Backhouse
And he is brainwashed by Faux News.
While millionaire politicians act like they are doing something the robbery of the American People continues.
I think that only the worst of Americans would try to make political hay with the tragedy that was Benghazi, no way are these three republican senators right or in the right to even question Ms. Rice about anything. The only question is how to prevent a recurrence to this instance of extremist terrorism. Ms. Rich is more then qualified to be S of S and if these people try to block it they better have a better reason then to just say "she lied" which by the way is a false accusation backed up by third party accounts.
The Three Stooges And the FOX Connection
Those Stooges, McCain, Grahm, & Ayottee would like to put Susan Rice and our President under oath so they can scream IMPEACHMENT!!! At least that's what the dolts over @ FOX NOISE aka the Republican Headquater want and use the three stooges to promote it incandescently.
Thanks Feisty. I know that First Read has never, EVER, sent your comments off into the ether.
You really meant to type all those comments of punctuation, eh?
As usual, nothing of substance to add.
Tell us all again about the number of followers you have or the number of votes your comments get, since that seems to be what you live for.
Why don't you explain to the masses here why $250,000 is the line in the sand for rich and middle class?
Come on Old Gal, you can do it.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
Is it just me, or are the right wing drama queens out in full force today? lol
WHAAAAAA!
Some are so worked up, they have been rendered incoherant!
So I'm
No Feisty
They have been emboldened by FAUX NEWS which would render anyone speechless!!!
They are relentless with the bullsh!t. More like a old movie queen who just won't quit.
Ditto McCain and Graham
Talks’ begin on ‘Fast and Furious’ gunrunning operation
source washinto ntimes
Tell me these idiots are obessed on the Black people in President Obama's adminstration. I'll say it again they are afraid of a Black planet
Bev commenting on one's ability to post a coherent thought!
Man, you can't make this stuff up.
Sorry little buddy, ths "Old Gal" no longer wastes her time on certified serial liars like yourself!
Carry on...
playing with yourselfchoking your trouser snake...One correction Feisty, trouser worm. not snake. Snake would imply they have something of importance.
That's right Feisty, you stick with the folks that buy into your substance-less line of drivel and COH violations.
Why are you (and apparently John IBC) so infatuated with my genitals?
No need to add anything to an actual dialouge.
After all you will always have your "Followers".
Is it just me, or do the 3 clowns (McCain, Graham and Ayotte) remind you of the Three Stooges? Two old men who's time and influence have come and gone, and a newbie chickey who's probably already ruined her career.
Come on gang, move on. The War is over. You lost. Now let's get about our Country's business.
And Mr, President, please pick Ms. Rice and shove her down the 3 clowns throat.
White Collar Auto
Thanks Feisty. I know that First Read has never, EVER, sent your comments off into the ether.
White Collar
Don't blame that sh!t on First Read
It was not First Read; it was your inability to construct a sentence in an intelligent and timely manner.
Typical right wing hacks always blame the left for their failures. You are one of the hack jobs.
I'm with you Cali Tom, please, please, please pick Ms. Rice.
Let's put her on the Tee Vee and start answering some questions.
Like I say, let's give you folks everything you want and see how it plays out.
It ought to be fun to watch.
U.S. Economy gets a lift from black Friday - gets GOP upset ???????????????
It was First Read it was your inability to construct a sentence in an intelligent and timely manner.
Bev said that, can you believe it?
BTW Bev, I think you meant It wasn't First Read.....
Thanks for the catch John! I was thinking about those little garter snakes when I typed it! lol
You mean like you?
That's a real conversation starter! lmao
What do you call this?
It's known as hypocrisy little buddy!
Envious much?
WCA -
Do you cut your daughter's allowance, then tell her the problem is she is spending too much?
The obvious and only solution to the debt & deficit solution is an "all of the above" approach of targeted spending cuts, revenue increases, and tax reform. I would start not with the tax rates on those over $250k but instead focus on the capital gains rate and the "carried interest" exemption.
It is blatantly obvious that the historically low tax rates of the Bush era have contributed little to overall economic growth and have contributed to the deficit by removing much needed tax revenue from the equation.
Exactly Bev!
In his hasty attempt to be first, poor WCA couldn't compose a coherent thought in the 5 minutes he had to edit his comment.
When called out on it, he blames First Read like the little man he is!
I've told you before, I'm fascinated by miniatures, silly! ;o)
CA Tom -- I rather think that reid, durbin and schumer fit the description more accurately. Three old men leading the "diverse" democrat party. How fascinating is that? Old, pale and stale at its finest.
bev and feisty are conjoined at the head WCA. I know yesterday Feisty was whining about re-regs (they break the rules) and in the same breath called alleged rereg an "asswipe". NO COH violation or rule breaking there.
Albany Joe, i find it rather disturbing that our esteemed left of che friends in here look at the re-election of Obama as a reason he should rule by decree. Really, these people for a lack of a better term, think compromise is their way or the highway. then we have responses like this
now lefty liberal would mean you would have to be registered democrat first I would imagine. However we know democrats are a fraction of the populace, much like registered republicans. I wouldnt think the majority that voted for Obama are lefty liberals. What happened was Romney was weak and Obama a snakeoil salesman that viciously attacked his opponent. He won as a result. but not because 51% of America's population is a lefty liberal.
Do you cut your daughter's allowance, then tell her the problem is she is spending too much?
In fact TNSEVOL, when I cut or deny my daughter her allowance for whatever reason, she does understand the fiscal consequences.
hen she adjusts to those consequences and moves on.
Why can't you grasp that?
Ram It and Cram It
Memorandum to Butt Hurting Republicans:
You lost the election, you lost it bad. You lost on your issues and you lost seats in every chamber.
Your ideas are losers to the majority of the American public. Your public wailing and gnashing of
teeth, flagellating yourselves while wearing your sackcloth and ashes is decidedly unappealing.
Putting everyone on the pillory but yourselves shows you moving from the denial phase to the
anger phase of your grieving process. The public doesn't want to see you do that in public, or
take it out on the elderly, the disabled, students, the poor, children and your average tax-paying
citizen. Go into one of the closets in the House or Senate and have a boozer, stab yourself with a
letter opener or whatever. Get over yourselves and get the work the public voted for DONE!
End of memo.
No Enclosure.
Going over the "cliff" is a return to 1996, not an apocalyptic hellscape of tribal bloodsport. Afterwards,
everyone can work out the tweeks, twists and adjustments. 'Til then just ram it and cram it (breath
deep R's, you might feel a sting). We've got the people on our side!
P. S. Barry Bamz better get on down to Virginny, because McAuliffe is as inspiring as a bowl of stale
corn flakes with powdered milk on top sitting in a 33 degree drizzle. I know, I've met him, probably
a great guy but , good gosh all mighty, I don't think he could lead starving termites into a lumber
yard.
Nice to see my Feisty dog whistle still works so well.
Fox's Krauthammer: Obama Is "Not Trying To Fix Our Fiscal Issues And Problems; He's Trying To Destroy The Republicans"
http://mediamatters.org/video/2012/11/27/foxs-krauthammer-obama-is-not-trying-to-fix-our/191541
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I've told ya'll before jack hammer pulls stuff from his diaper!!!
It's the RepubliCons who are still talking about wrecking the economy; even though they are a minority who lost the election. Yet somehow in their narrow minds they think they are the majority.
@Fiesty I corrected it.
Greetings to all. Thought I would drop back in now that the election is over. Good to see some discussions.
White Collar Auto - I'm with you Alan, bring it on. Better yet, let's give Obama and his lackeys everything they want. I mean everything. Tax away, shut down the Oil Fields, Save the Planet, Increase welfare, Let energy prices skyrocket.
WCA, while I disagree with your characterizations above, I agree on Saving the Planet :}. I do agree with the total elimination of the temporary tax cuts that Bush put in place and Obama extended. What part of temporary do people not understand? First and foremost, I understand that revenue and spending cuts have to be part of the equation. However the plan that Obama and most democrats want to push and the plan that the GOP wants to push will not work to solve our problems. The 80 billion annually that the 2% wealthy will provide CAN NOT be the only solution. The GOP mantra that taxes CAN NEVER RAISE and cut spending to the bone, can not be the only solution.
Bring it on - Alan the total elimination of all the cuts would bring in another 400 billion. You may balk at reducing the deficit down from 1.1 trillion to $600 or $700 billion but I think it would be a great start. Although, we both KNOW that all of the cuts will not be removed. The can will be kicked.
If the taxes are raised on the wealthy it will be kicking the can. I can buy off on what the Republican Cole and Dem Durbin are saying. My proposal, do an immediate elimination of the tax cut for the wealthy to avoid this so called fiscal disaster of "uncertain, nervous nellies." Then take a year or so to hash out tax reform to reduce exemptions and loopholes. Broaden the base, my caveat the wealthy still pay Clinton rates but the middle class and others pay less but more of them do so. Also, could there be an opportunity to include the legalization of immigrants? Adding 10 - 12 million undocumented to the federal tax rolls surely can help.
Changes affecting entitlements, remove Obama's SS tax holiday immediately, increase the SS witholding cap to about $150K to lenghten its viability and gradually increase when people can draw. Medicare will have to be addressed as well any ideas?
David W, well said. Three blind mice describes McCain, Graham and Ayotte perfectly. They sounded like parrots yesterday afternoon, each mimicking what the other had said--not an original thought in their heads. They weren't satisfied because they refuse to be satisfied, refuse to accept the truth, the facts because they don't want to hear what doesn't fit their intent and their narrative. Listen and silent have the same letters--maybe those three should ponder the coincidence.
Memo to the media: STOP giving credibility (and the microphone) to three senators who have none.
Feisty, had the same thought. Decided he/she was trying so say "So I'm first"!!!!
Meanwhile, in the color-blind Democratic party....
Feisty, it would seem that WCA is a bit jealous of you. Maybe even a not so secret admirer. Perhaps if you keep sweet talking to him, like you have been, you might even get him to think straight and vote democratic.
edit:
White Collar Auto
It was First Read it was your inability to construct a sentence in an intelligent and timely manner.
Bev said that, can you believe it?
BTW Bev, I think you meant It wasn't First Read..
Should have been @ White Collar I corrected it. But, you already knew that right?? I doubt it!!!
@YellowDog
You have too much sense to be a Democrat. Come over to the libertarian/independents. BTW in Jersey Governor Christie has slapped sales tax on Medical Marijuana. Yet another decision I agree with. Legalize and tax.
Another claim Democrats are making is that SS does not add to the deficit. If that is the case then why did the President threaten to stop SS payments if the treasury could not borrow more money? If there is this huge trust fund why is the payment of SS reliant on borrowing from China?
Perhaps the best thing to happen to this nation was Obama being re-elected. Now everything is on him, and if liberalism is to survive Obama will actually have to do something truly inspiring his second term. So far he is not off to a very good start, as only a moron can take this tax increase on the top 2% seriously. Raising enough revenue to run the federal government for 8 days is hardly worth the spectacle of Obama traveling the nation. Obama touts some 4.4 trillion dollar 10 year plan to reduce the deficits, but still hasn't actually laid that out either. No specifics, just more smoke and mirrors. Someone should mention to Obama that the campaign is over, and the nation is watching to see if he can actually do the job this time around. If Obama ends his second term with our national debt over 20 trillion and an economy on life support, all that will remain of liberalism will an epitaph.
Yesterday in the First Thoughts page I wrote:
Last night Rachel Maddow had a graphic about Boehner's threats to kill the economy that was made up of letters cut out of newspapers like an old-time ransom note that read "Meet My Demands Or America Gets It". Maybe Rachel reads this blog.
Alan NJ, I keep saying who are they going to blame once whitey becomes the minority race in this country? Will the growing Hispanic population be their next evil bogeyman?
I want to know how many Libbies in here live outside their means? I wonder how many borrow their livelihood from say Pay Day Loan companies? Auto Title Companies? I want to see your success rate.
Simply Our Gov sets the worse example for responsibility. yep, the Far Left Won and it shows.
Rick-3416939
Since he did the job quite well the last time around, I expect he'll do it again.
Personally, I thought Ayotte sounded really nervous when she went before the cameras yesterday. She said her little piece, and then turned and walked away as the press called questions to her back. I suspect she knows she's in over her head, but doesn't know how to get out of it, and is now forced to "stick to her guns". Already people in NH are beginning to ridicule her. The fact that she got involved with McCain and Graham at all is a demonstration of her naivete. They're using her for their own ends.
GOP fiscal plans sharply at odds with public opinion
Republicans are already facing several disadvantages. Not only is President Obama holding a stronger hand -- with looming tax hikes, he clearly has more leverage -- polls show the American mainstream more likely to blame the GOP if talks fail.
But for Republicans, it gets worse. They have fairly specific policy goals in mind, but haven't persuaded the public at all. Consider the results of the new ABC News/Washington Post poll
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/28/15510982-gop-fiscal-plans-sharply-at-odds-with-public-opinion?lite
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Of course we now asking a right wing hack on this site to consider is like butcher knife doing up to a goat's ass.
Alan, NJ @YellowDog - You have too much sense to be a Democrat.
Hmmm, not sure how to take that, LOL. Liberatarians wouldn't want me, I'm much too liberal for them regarding social justice issues, ie: "we are all in this together" philosophy. Independents, I have no idea what they stand for, so I will not sterotype them as people voting for politicos that will "give" them tax policy that they want.
No, Alan I'm happily in the Democratic left. Thankful that a Centrist is President of our country. I just realize that with the election over and disaster averted, there could be a way to solve problems. In the spirit of the "We are all in this together" philosophy, the fiscal cliff should be solved by making Republicans and Democrats gripe and moan about the concessions each side must swallow.
What I find ironic is that the countries they most admire, Scandinavian Countries, The Netherlands and Germany are some of the whitest in the world. Where are the successful multi-cultural countries? Where are the successful Hispanic countries? Where is the former colonial countries that are successful?
Seems to me the North Europeans did quite well, and the only real alternative is the paternalistic governments of Asia.
Mark, I agree with just about everything you say regarding taxes and spending cuts.
Let's raise taxes on everyone. After all, every one has to "Have some skin in the game", right?
Why is $250,000/year rich?
Taxes and cuts must go hand in hand, not give us the tax increases and we'll look at the spending cuts.
But you and I both know if Obama had run on doing what you suggest, he never, ever, would have been re-elected.
Lying about how deep a hole we are in and what it will take to get out worked much better for him.
Once again the GOP is back playing their shell game. They are screaming into the cameras just to pull our attention away from their back-room obstructionist crap. They are like the circus clown who juggles 10 balls at the same time right in front of your face while his two sneaky buddies come in from the side and throw buckets of confetti on you. Some of these issues are relavent and some are not but, by ranting and posturing in front of the cameras, they are able to push many people away from focusing on the real issues. They hope that the American people will become so distracted by their multi-issue, righteous indignation approach that we will not be able to keep an eye on what they are doing ... or failing to do.
Why is it that they are having a problem with compromise on maintaining lower taxes for 99% of Americans? I would MUCH PREFER to make $20 million per year and pay 38% than make $50,000.00 per year and pay 25%.
And, as to what is now being called Entitlement Programs; Social Security and Medicare, these need to be taken OFF THE TABLE. WE WERE FORCED TO PAY for those programs, they weren't optional. Both programs were mandated by our government. Social Security is a pre-paid retirement program and Medicare is a pre-paid health care program. I have paid, for 43 years, into those government-mandated plans - Social Security for retirement and Medicare for health care. I was not given a choice. It was not an option. It was a requirement.
Our government had the obligation to properly manage those pre-paid funds to meet the promises of the contract they made with the people forced to participate. If they did not do their job properly. If they were not good stewarts of the people's money. If they lost, mismanaged, stole or, in some other fashion, mishandled that money, they are responsible to return it. If that means giving up their pay, benefits, taxpayer-funded insurance, not purchasing a few tanks or handing wads of money to other countries so that they will kiss our red, white and blue asses - so be it.
And they damned sure better not think about turning it over to the thieves on Wall Street or the too-big-to-fail banks, either. They aren't going to kiss their buddies' butts on my dime.
The Republicans beat the same tired drum that people will get back more than they paid in, so the systems are not viable. Wrong! After paying in for 43 years, with 7 years left to pay in, my number of years of contribution will be at 50 years. I seriously doubt that I will be collecting those benefits for the same number of years I paid in. In fact, if demographic information regarding my family history is correct, I will collect for approximately 15 years.
For them to say that I have not paid in enough to cover what I will be paid. I say bull@!$%#! I have paid in enough to receive benefits for a hell of a lot longer than the 15 years I expect to live beyond retirement age.
As to Medicare, the first thing that needs to happen is that the insurance industry needs to get its grungy little paws out of medicine. We need absolute caps on malpractice suits. There need to be limits put on the amount paid for every medical procedure. Pharmaceutical companies need to be taken to task for reaping the benefits of drugs created by government-funded university grants. Again, I will have paid into this pre-paid medical insurance for 50 years. I have paid more than enough to cover the roughly 15 years that I will receive benefits.
I am livid when I hear people regurgitate nonsense from the teabag movement, that is controlled by self-serving vultures like Grover Norquist, spouting that Social Security should be handed over to private investment companies and Medicare should be turned into a voucher system. No ... what needs to happen is that they need to fix what they broke. We paid for those programs. We were FORCED to pay for them ... and we damned well deserve to get what we paid for.
These so-called "ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS" are nothing of the sort. It was a requirement for me to pay into the plans with the guarantee that I would get benefits or money back when I reached age 62 or age 65. Not age 67. Not age 70. Not age 72. To change the structure of the programs now, after forcing my participation for all these years, is nothing more than a breach of contract. If the fund we have been paying into has had its carcass picked clean through careless practices or outright theft, then these politicians had damned well better find a way to put the money they have taken out of it back into it. They can start by lowering their pay and their benefit packages. Personally I don't feel they are worth $177,000 a year, so they can take a salary cut to $30,000 a year. They can forget about their luxury health care plan that costs us millions of dollars a year and participate in Medicare like the rest of the working people. As for that retirement program into which they pay 1% of their income and get a return of 100% of their pay for life after serving for a measly five years can be tossed out as well. Most of us have to pay a substantial percentage of our income into our retirement as well as putting in 25 to 30 years on the job before we can retire. We need to change this system. That will save a chunk of change that can be put back into the programs we have paid for and that they have mismanaged.
Get us the hell out of these wars that are, for the most part, just a way to bolster the coffers of the military-industrial machine. Halliburton and the other leeching mega-corporations have taken enough money from the pockets of the citizens of this nation. Use the money saved to help our American companies grow. That will put more people on the employment roles which means more money will go into the system and help sure it up.
As for all of the government employees who are exempt from paying into the programs because they have "special programs" just for themselves; that needs to be nipped in the bud. Why the hell should we pay taxes to provide them with separate retirement and health care plans while the ones we are depending upon are faltering? Who had the brilliant idea that government employees should not be part of the same system as the rest of the working people?
Working people have been MANDATED to pay into Medicare, a system billed as a pre-paid medical insurance program. There was no choice. It was a contract between the working people and our government. We were REQUIRED to contribute to this PRE-PAID HEALTH CARE PLAN and in return, we would begin to receive the benefits of our contributions when we hit age 62 or age 65. They have screwed around with the money we have paid in and now want to change the contract they made with us. Well too freaking bad! Put the money back in that has been mishandled. You made us pay in all these years. Don't you dare try to change the rules in the final two minutes of the game.
To call these two programs; Social Security and Medicare, ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS, sends the message that people receiving the benefits from them are getting something for nothing. It is simply not true. Most of us who are at or close to retirement age, to some extent, are depending on these two programs. It isn't like we are able to run out and find a 40-hour-a-week job hoisting around a shovel at our age. There are some realities that come in to play as people get older. There is a reason people retire. WE GET OLD.
These mollycoddled little bastards have a huge disdain for that older segment of our population that don't have millions tucked away in off-shore accounts. They measure the worth of others solely by financial statements.
The brown-shirt GOP trolls had better get their heads out of their collective asses and start listening to the MAJORITY and working with the president to stop the REAL ENTITLEMENTS ... those loopholes enjoyed by their kiss-ass ubber-rich buddies and contributors.
Who cares about the polls? We need a poll of Obama supporters to find out what percentage actually believe this paltry tax increase will solve the nations deficit. When Obama is touring the nation in support of a tax increase that will generate enough revenue to run the federal government for 8 days, this country is in real trouble. 8 days of revenue, lets all stand up and cheer on Obama. After all Obama is heading into the trenches to fight for 8 days of revenue because he really cares that much. Instead of working toward a solution that prevents this nation from toppling the 20 trillion dollar mark in national debt, Obama is stumping for an 8 day solution as if that will save this nation. Well I guess when Obama supporters will go rabid over an 8 day revenue increase, real solutions aren't needed.
So if you take out at the same rate you contributed we should be fine, but unfortunately you will be taking out at a much faster rate than you contributed. However, either way your contributions are long gone as SS and Medicare are NOT pre-paid programs. They are pay-go programs. Your benefits are dependent on current workers not your past contributions. Unfortunately, due to demographics, there are not enough workers to support the number of beneficiaries. If you want someone to blame for this look at all the Congress and Administrations from 1986 when they made the current rules. Every politician since then has known about the problem but kicked the can down the road.
Well, everything you say is true so best of luck getting blood from a stone.
It seems you're the stupid moron. "Republican's" is possessive; "Republicans" is plural.
___________________________________
Hey Jack-off: As Nasty DumbFux is fond of saying "You've already lost the argument if your only line of attack is spelling or grammar".
Loser.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Nasty!!!!!
Considering that the senate quite likely will never return to republican hands, the republicans really should think today's situation out completely before attempting to block appointments, the sword swings both ways and if a GOP candidate ever wins the white house again he may be faced by a democratic senate that doesn't believe in his "mandate". The only reason the house is still in republican hands is a result of gerrymandering, that too will eventually disappear if they continue thier agenda of legislating personal behavior and invading an individual's privacy.
Alan, the Left admires their socialized system and I agree it works there. There is a difference I wonder how much of the populace in the Scandanavian countries are poor? I wonder where the compare to the US in over all population? I wonder if there is the immigration problem there like ours in the US? Many factors have led to the US decline. At one time Alan people migrated to the melting pot of the US and adapted to its customs to fit in and be Americanized. My last name is an example of Americanized last name when my decendants immigrated to the US somewhere in the late 1800's. Now in American culture, Americans must adapt to the immigrants culture or it will hurt their feelings.
Hey Apple, the GOP can't be brownshirts since they are the minority party right? It would appear the hard left on here seem to dislike freedom of speech, after all not liking Obama is a crime in some's perspective. So tell me how that fits into a tolerant non brownshirt society? I suspect many of you hard lefties admire the tactics of the Geheim Staatspolizei
Alan NJ:
If I didn't know that you consider the Scandinavian countries to be cesspools of socialism, I'd almost think there was some sort of insinuation of Aryan superiority in there somewhere. But you're only showing your ignorance if you believe Hispanic countries aren't doing well, now that they've got themselves liberated from the dictators that Washington imposed on them for half a century. Chile, Argentina, and Brazil are all doing pretty well, although I don't know if Brazil is "hispanic" since it's language is Portuguese.
The Three Blind Mice are still trying hard to bring down the duly elected President of the United States by any means available, but the American people simply aren't buying tickets for their side show. SAYING there's a scandal doesn't make one materialize out of the ether, and We the People know it. By pursuing this tack they'll do nothing but make themselves look even more ridiculous and further damage their own political careers.
Meanwhile the rest of the Conservative crew pretends they're ready to go right over the Fiscal Gradual Downward Slope. (Let's call it what it is...there is no immediate, catastrophic change in the economic environment that will take place on Jan 1.) Nonetheless in time the economic damage of doing so would be real, and it would be significant in a relatively weak recovery. That's particularly true at a time when China is slowing and Europe is suffering the dire consequences of the Conservatives' favorite tool...austerity.
Which is why they're just bluffing. The big business wing of the GOP won't let the politicians they just bought and paid for hurt the economy. The weird, ghastly apparition known as Grover Norquist will come up with some parlor trick to fulfill his silly pledge or he'll disappear from the view of live humans forevermore.
Or maybe there's another possible scenario. Maybe the wealthy elites who bought and paid for said Conservative Republicans are already betting on an economic downturn in the same way Eric Cantor did. THAT is a possibility that no one's talking about...a possibility that ought to give the rest of us short nights of fitful sleep in a way a puppet like Grover can't.
Fact if the matter remains, if Repubs cave on the taxes Obama will still need to come up with painful spending cuts if he is to do anything constructive in reigning in deficit spending and the debt. In fact, if Repubs give Obama what he wants we will still probably be looking at another downgrade of our national credit rating if actual spending is not cut and debt addressed.So the Repubs should simply give Obama what he wants and watch the economy cave in the next six months. And when it does Obama will have no one else to blame and his two terms in office will go down as an abysmal failure. While the voters return to the Repubs in droves in the midterm after realizing, painfully, that Obama is all pie in the sky rhetoric and no concrete viable action.
Why is $250,000/year rich?
$250,000 is rich when the elderly scrape by on Social Security. $250,000 is rich when it is, what six times the figure designating the poverty line. $250,000 is rich when the working class and the poor work full time and still can't make ends meet. Believe me $250,000 is not middle class except if you compare that $250,000 "wage slave" to Mitt Romney or Donald Trump. If these $250,000 middle classers can't get by with a few thousand extra dollars of taxes they certainly are not fiscally responsible about their finances.
Taxes and cuts must go hand in hand, not give us the tax increases and we'll look at the spending cuts.
Yes, if Obama would've run on expring all of the tax cuts he probably would have lost. Campaigning is over, my partisan cap is off. My votes will dimish. Oh well, good bye green stars. HaHaHa.
Joe HAHAHA
That rule applies only if you're not calling someone a "moron." You need to be extra careful to get your punctuation and grammar correct when you're calling someone infantile names like you routinely do as a substitute for anything of substance to say.
Houston!
Last night Rachel Maddow had a graphic about Boehner's threats to kill the economy that was made up of letters cut out of newspapers like an old-time ransom note that read "Meet My Demands Or America Gets It". Maybe Rachel reads this blog.
Houston! that was just too funny.
I'm glad Rachel reads this blog. I have one too that is downright ridiculously tin foil hat.
Fox News has taken their conspiracy claims for impeachment to new crazy places by claiming that Obama blackmailed Petraeus in order cover up Benghazi.
http://www.politicususa.com/fox-news-full-metal-tin-foil-hat-claim-obama-blackmailed-petraeus.html
Houston!
Joe HAHAHA
That rule applies only if you're not calling someone a "moron."
________________________________________
Sorry Houston, the rule always applies when the person making the attack says NOTHING about the content of your post and is reduced to quibbling over spelling or grammar.
Houston,
You beat me to it. You would have thought he'd "get it". But then again, it's Albany Joe, so why am I surprised he dug himself in deeper?
Oh! As I'm typing this he posts at #1.66 and digs himself in deeper yet. Sorry, Joe. It's not "quibbling" when you call other people morons and say they're stupid but don't use correct grammar.
Although, now that I think about it, even when you do use correct grammar you have nothing to say. The best you can come up with is "canned laughter". The joke is on you, Pal.
Rick LotsaNumbers,
None of us believe that. Zero. Are you really so brainless? Do we have to spell it out for you? If you owe $10, and you get $2 from one source and $3 from another and $2 from a third, you only have $8, not enough to repay the $10, but you've still got more than you did when you started out. By your logic (lack of logic), you believe: "Well, there's no sense taking the $2 because it's not enough to get me to my goal."
It's astonishing that there are those on the Right who continue to assert this, day after day after day.
As Santorum said, the Right will never attract anyone with any smarts to the Republican Party. It's proved here every day.
Mark, you completely discount the time effort and money that goes into a person making $250,000+/year.
Why, if I chose to sacrifice in my early years, to insure that I would make a good living should I be penalized for those who chose not to?
I have put money into government programs that I was promised would be there for me when I retired. That was a lie.
Sorry, Mark, you and I will always part ways on the "We're all in this together" philosophy when I have to be in for more than most.
Liberals are all about being fair, and Mark, that's just not fair.
Oops! Changed my third number from $3 to $2 and didn't recheck my figures before posting. The total should have read $7 . . . .
American Media rejected GOP Witch hunt of Susan Rice as baseless !!!!!!!!!!!!!
No the translation should be that even Mr. Obama campaigned, twice, on the need to make painful cuts in spending, but he has failed to make any proposal to do so, for fear of angering the handout crowd. But fact of the matter remains, if we want an "economy built to last", we can't continue spending on these programs in the same manner we are currently doing so. They have to be cut, regardless of which party controls the House.
Jack in Portsmouth
Oops! Changed my third number from $3 to $2 and didn't recheck my figures before posting. The total should have read $7 . . . .
___________________
# 1.67 Jack-off said "The joke is on you, Pal."
Moron.
He who laughs last............
Well, a smart guy like Jack can finish that saying by himself.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He who laughs last............
I have to wonder ... how many of those screaming to protect those who make $250,000 or more a year actually fall into that income category. My guess is ... NONE. They are simply hero-worshiping wannabes who grovel at the hems of the master's toga hoping that some crumbs will fall down to them.
Trickle down economics is not a sustainable economic plan. It is, however, a way to perpetuate the economic slavery that the elitist class needs to impose on the working people in order for them to maintain the lifestyle to which they have grown accustomed.
I have asked these questione before and NOBODY has answered, but I am asking again.
1) Is there really ANYONE on this forum who would prefer to make $50,000.00 a year and pay 25% rather than making $250,000 a year and paying 38% in income tax? Well? Anybody?
2) Who does a 3.5% tax increase hurt the most, the person making an income of $250,000 a year or the income of the person making $250,000 a year? Keep in mind that the person making $250,000 a year has many, many loopholes that lowers the taxable rate on which they pay taxes.
This whole thing is just not right. Our politicians are not working for the American people. They are looking our for themselves, their contributors, their so-called friends and those corporations that will 'take care of them' after they leave public office. It's not rocket science. They just need to do what's right ... and do it now. The politicking MUST END NOW. Those digging their boots in, refusing to do what they know the majority of Americans want and need, are guilty of treason.
Being a politician, being elected by Americans to represent us, should be considered a great honor, but it has become nothing more to them than a high-stakes game. They do not care about our country, our citizens or the well-being of the American ideal. It is sickening.
Joe HAHAHA
Has anyone ever pointed out to you that repeatedly typing HAHA is not actually laughing? Dope.
D. Appel
And they all blame the fact that they're not filthy rich on those lazy Walmart employees getting food stamps from the government.
D.Apple 1.54 bravo, another (standing ovation) this platform seems to be more directed at personal insults than understanding. Excellent post
Coming to the US.
Wait - 67% of Americans would rather see Medicare go bankrupt than extend it to 67? I knew there was allot of stupid people, but I didn't guess it was 2 out of 3.
"67% oppose increasing the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67"
"I have to wonder ... how many of those screaming to protect those who make $250,000 or more a year actually fall into that income category."
You think those not wanting to raise taxes is because we want to protect those people? Then you truly don't get it do you. We currently spend way too much frickin money and raising taxes doesn't solve that problem at all. Most people are for raising taxes after you get your spending in order.
If you keep bashing your head against a wall, only stupid people think putting a band-aid on it solves the problem of bashing your head against the wall. (FYI - It doesn't)
I just love it.
The vast majority of Americans when polled voted to raise someone else's taxes. But when asked if the Gov't should touch their benefits (increase medicare age) scream a resounding NO.
First Read posters will cry and howl.
That's my expectation.
And that's if a deal gets made. Because the only people unhappy with a deal will be all the extremists who think the genitals should be cut off the offending political party.
Now, if there is no deal made, and I kind of hoping that there is none, even though it will cost me plenty, is that all the extremists will jump for joy at 'taking a stand' (which would really mean, in this case, putting on your best sour puss and acting like a stubborn brat) and that will last until the bill hits home....
...and then back to even MORE crying and howling from the extremists, because they'll never know they were the cost of not getting a deal done. And the one party voters will console themselves with that the offending political party is the cause of all their woes and life problems.
Pain is the low road method of learning. But here on First Read, it is the preferred method.
Albany Joe,
Again you don't get it. The difference is, I reread what I wrote and immediately offered a correction.
Now, I will tell you something that will just blow your mind. Since I have been posting on this site I have seen many, many on the Left post something. . . then realize they made an error and go back to correct it. But you know what? I have never, ever seen someone on the Right correct their errors. Why? I suspect it's because many of them are lazy and careless, and take no pride in their work.
Rice is a black woman. She should "throw the race/victim card". It's the convenient card of choice for 'people of color' and it still might have some miles left on it. Also, point out that revising entitlements and cutting the Federal Budget is 'racist' and will affect welfare payments and food stamps.
Jack - "I have never, ever seen someone on the Right correct their errors."
Really, never ever?
you are either lying or too self absorbed to notice.
Albany Joe I have no idea why you waste your precious time on Jacklyn. He is way too Smart for you LOL.. and me for that matter. I know because they tell me all the time ergo must be true. Libby Logic 101
You cannot keep spending at this rate and think that more taxes on those making over $250,000 is going to make up for it. And when it doesn't, what do you think is going to happen? The ceiling on what is considered "rich" is going to be lowered. And then lowered again, until everyone is going to be taxed more. You have to have a compromise - raise taxes but lower spending.
Wait so putting black people on welfare and food stamps isn't racist? but trying to get them off so they can support themselves and not be beholden to the Government is?
And that is what the libs call progress?
Obama has ALREADY raised taxes on higher income earners ($200k single/$250k married) through Obamacare ! He has also raised taxes on EVERYONE else who pays taxes by eliminating or reducing medical deductions through Obamacare !! Well, isn't that Special !!!
Now, it looks like Obama will INTENTIONALLY let the "Bush Tax Cuts" expire ... for EVERYONE ! Didn't you guys and gals ever wonder why the extension was only good until just AFTER the election was over ??? Oops ! There goes Bam-Bam to the Tinker-Toy factory ... instead of LEADING the fiscal cliff negotiations !
Beverly:
That conspiracy theory is no longer operative. It collapsed with a thud when Petraeus testified before Congress. If he were being blackmailed to keep quiet, he would have said something about it in the hearings because he had nothing to lose at that point since his affair had been made public. (The alleged "blackmail" was supposed to keep him from appearing at any hearings.)
Exactly what the conspiracy theory du jour is, I don't know. What they ought to call this "scandal" is Nothingate, because that's what it is. Nothing but bitter old McNasty still trying to get revenge for losing the presidential election four years ago.
Jim - some of obamacare tax increases.
Medicare payroll tax. Starting in 2013, the ACA raises the Medicare Part A payroll tax by 0.9 percent for those making $200,000 or more (couples making $250,000).
Taxes on unearned income. The law also imposes a new 3.8 percent tax on investment income and other unearned income for wealthy households, also starting in 2013.
Other revenue raisers. The law includes a number of other minor taxes intended to help pay for the health coverage expansion. These include new penalties on Health Savings Accounts, limits on Flexible Savings Accounts, and an excise tax on indoor tanning salons.
Increasing the threshold for itemized medical expenses. Today, taxpayers can deduct medical expenses that exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income. The ACA raises that threshold to 10 percent beginning next year.
FYI - for those of you that don't know the unearned income is ON everybody, so if you have an IRA for your retirement, that is you.
Have an HSA - again that is you.
No longer deduct medical expenses - could be you
Use your flexible spending account at work, oops again that is you.
So if somebody says taxes haven't went up on people making under 250(k), well know you know they are lying to stupid.
Stupidity provided by Bev in Chicago:
FYI, it's the President's job to consult with congress, and his attempt to circumvent the Constitution and appeal to the masses via social media is indicative of his arrogance and narcissism.... He truly thinks he is the Emperor.
It is unfortunate that jerks like Feisty and Bev can jump into the discussion and spew verbal diarhea, dance around the issues and toss out one line insults to anyone who posts a comment with which they disagree.
blackcatwhitecat
Those lefty liberals are 51% and growing in numbers of the American people
You have to be a cretin or naive to say this falsehood. Obama won with 51% of the voters, but that makes you think that all are lefty liberals , is it perhaps that all Latinos, people of color, Jidios, low-income people and other minorities are lefty liberals , you do not reach the 30% , the group conservative even takes an advantage along with the moderates. I can still call our country proudly , United States of America and not Socialist States of America.
Please mister OBLAMER pick rice shove her down the throats of those 3. Show America just how inept you are at picking the proper people to run this country. Like Holder the gun runner. Your intel group that let these people DIE for no GOOD reason. Anyone with any intelligence would of told them the situation and TOLD them not ask them to leave the AREA. If you know the Security is falling apart you do NOT leave them ther to DIE.
How pathetic. Then try to tell everyone that it was because of a movie trailer. And it happend to of happened on 9-11. Would NEVER expect them to attack American intrest on 9-11 that is the emergency # why would anyone attack anyone on that day, seem silly to even bring it up. NOONE EVER ATTACKS ANYONE ON 9-11.
Gat a clue OBLAMER not just EXCUSES.
I bet OBALMER is asking Mitt for advise on how to get this country moving in the right direction, that way if it does go bad then he can BLAME Mitt. Sounds like OBLAMER.
Let's review the situation re Ambassador Rice:
President Obama has done a pretty good job managing foreign affairs, what with killing Bin Ladin and all, and Republican presidential candidate Romney had zero foreign affair credentials. When the attack on the Benghazi consulate occurred, the Republicans seized on it as an opportunity to cast aspersions on Obama's foreign affair credentials, promoting the idea that there was some sort of cover-up to hide the truth from the American people in the interests of the President's re-election prospects. Ambassador Rice became the target since she was the one who appeared on the Sunday talk shows making statements that were later walked back as more facts about the attack emerged. The strategy was unsuccessful; the President was re-elected to a second term. In addition, as more information about the attack has emerged, the facts have not supported their conspiracy theory. Republicans were faced with a decision about how they were going to proceed from there. Letting the issue die a graceful death would be seen as tantamount to admitting they were wrong, so they have continued their efforts to make Ambassador Rice a sacrificial lamb, demanding a pound of flesh. To his credit, the President, knowing that there is no "there" there, has refused to take the easy way out and throw Ambassador Rice under the bus, leaving the Republicans another choice. They could continue down the path they were on, or make nice with the Ambassador and report that they had investigated the situation and their concerns had been satisfied. McCain's statement that he was willing to re-consider his position was interpreted as an opening, Ambassador Rice requested a meeting, and the prospects for a reconciliation appeared good. It appears, however, that the Ambassador did not display the desired level of deference in the meeting, and McCain et al have doubled down in their opposition to Rice's candidacy for Secretary of State. One wonders whether this will be the Republican strategy going forward; promoting an appearance in public of willingness to participate in bipartisan compromise and reasonableness, but continuing their strategy of opposition and gridlock behind closed doors, then blaming the Democrats for the lack of progress. It does not foster much optimism in me regarding the fiscal cliff negotiations.
Can someone tell me why President Obama and the left keep talking about raising taxes on those making $200/250K? President Obama and the Democrats have admitted that it would raise around 68 Billion per year or $680 Billion over 10 years, which is still $920 Billion SHORT of Obama's goal of $1.6 Trillion. I have heard President Obama say that "it's not about raising revenue, it's about fairness."
Maybe the Republicans should counter with raising the tax rate on everyone making $1 million (regardless of how they get it) and also add the closing of loopholes, & deductions for all tax payers or at least those over $500K.
What foreign affairs credentials did Candidate Obama have when he ran for office in 2008?
The whole Egypt thing is working out pretty well isn't it?
Neither.
Can you provide me with an example where someone on the Right has?
Better yet, just consider people like CA and Joe Albany and geo and Kurt and others of their ilk. Can you imagine one of them correcting their mistakes? No? Either can I. They are incapable of admitting their errors; incapable of admitting they might be wrong.
Jack, I just did. Check post 1.92.
But never let things like fact and truths interrupt a good rant about the other side.
my ilk Jacklyn??...Too funny, going to point out my spelling mistakes instead of the merits of my posts? As a matter of fact you do. Again you are too smart for me and everyone else because you have alluded to it many times including the above inane drivel you posted. I bow to you oh MENSA.
when you figure out what circular logic is then you will finally understand the error of your thinking, until then carry on
Without leadership in the WH there's no other way but to blame others. We haven't had any leadership for 12 years now and going for 16. This is how it will but for the next 4 years ... no leadership. No budgets, Continued out of control spending and blame, blame, blame. Let's go back to the Clinton years for taxing and spending... I'm all for it.
It's their fault - Demos and Repubs are to blame. We need to get rid of both parties, they're both inept in running this country. Spend, tax, spend.... spend, tax... blame, blame... spend, tax. Too many in WH and congress greasing there own palms and could careless about America.
But it's going to be the new Arab Spring to blame or something like that...
You got to love the new democracy in Egypt ... oh I mean dictator. Al Qaeda is stronger than ever... Just ask Stevenson.. Oh we can't cause he's dead and noone cares
Tom-Plymouth: Where did you admit you were wrong in comment 1.92? Doesn't seem to be a fact, as I understand them.
White Collar Auto - you asked a question earlier that I think you deserve an answer to:
Why do you folks think taxing 1% Americans will solve all our debt problems?
Because the top 1% of this nation holds ~42.1% of all the financial wealth in this country, taxing the 1% taxes the majority of revenue sources...Math, its a b!tch ain't it
Tons of sources on the web and in books(those things at the library), can give you the figures, and although there are slight variances they all tell the same story, most wealth in in the hands of a very elite few:
http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
White Collar Auto
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
I commend you on your attempts to rationalize with the limp-wristed Liberal/Progressive cabal that pollutes PMSNBC and other Leftist sites. Unfortunately you fail to understand that their delusions are not of their own choosing. They have been indoctrinated by their dysfunctional parents, peers and elitist educators from infancy, they don’t know any better.
This fiscal cliff is nothing more than a scare tactic to force Americans to buy into more of the Liberal/Progressive “Bread and Circuses” they have been advocating for decades. Of course they won’t even discuss spending cuts. Why should they? They all have submitted to the class-warfare and envy meme that Barrack Hussein and his comrades have been promoting.
You have to realize the massive confusion that is consuming the Liberal/Progressive mind. As convoluted as their thinking is they understand that all their unsustainable sacrosanct entitlements and social “safety net” programs are the cause of our economic calamity. As our own government watchdogs admit that our government is overrun with waste, fraud, abuse and corruption they simply discount this as the cost of government. The conundrum they are faced with is, if they admit it they lose the battle of not allowing necessary spending cuts. It’s much easier for the Liberal/Progressive to ignore the problem than to admit it exists and confront it.
So, Barrack Hussein and his complicit worshipping media, will tug at the heart strings of the vast unwashed masses that they have created. This is obvious to see, for those that can see, as the Liberal/Progressive campaign concentrated on convincing the American people that the best they can achieve in life is to be middle-class.
This is not unusual from the Ivy League faculty-lounge statist elites. Remember, redistributionist’s must first brainwash the illiterate masses that they are incapable of achieving success above what the elitists allow. The Bourgeoisie must convince their minions that they, and only they, are smart enough to attain any level of success, the rest must be subservient to their awesome knowledge. Of course their extensive knowledge doesn’t come from any level of experience in the private sector but rather from what they learned by reading books. Not surprisingly if you are so gifted as to have written a book you are exalted as a true authority. Experience means nothing as long as you can sound like you know what you’re talking about. This is usually advanced via a fist-thumping speech that is absent any solutions but rich on rhetoric.
Remember, Liberalism/Progressivism is not based on facts or policy, it is completely driven by emotions. This is exposed in the current “fairness” meme that Barrack Hussein has been advocating. In the mind of the Liberal/Progressive your whole life must revolve around fairness. Things like fair, a fair share, a level playing field and the right thing to do have been exalted, yet no one can define what is fair. No one can tell you who the penultimate, unbiased, perfectly honest person is who can truly define or determine what is fair. Once again, it’s base wholly on emotions rather than facts or common sense. Ideology obstructs reality and the useful idiots kneel and accept it.
In a related article here on PMSNBC regarding winning the current PowerBall Lottery, the conclusion is that all you really need is about $75,000 a year of income to be truly happy. Anything above and beyond that is obviously greed. This draws you into another of their favorite beliefs, the mythical living wage. This is promoted as another variant of fairness, but once again cannot be defined. Once again, more emotions. More symbolism over substance.
This has all been achieved by the persistent and successful dumbing down of most Americans. When we graduate the level of illiteracy we see from our government run public primary and secondary school system it’s easy to understand. Most Americans read at an 8th grade level, most Americans don’t know how to use—there, their or they’re—correctly in a sentence, most Americans can’t calculate 30% of 770 in their head. But our kids can put a condom on a cucumber better than anyone on the planet. But most Americans can LOL with their BFF and will TTYL. Useful idiots are easy to be manipulated.
When you simply challenge the Liberal/Progressive argument about this ridiculous “Warren Buffett Rule” they have no defense. We all know that raising these upper bracket tax rates will only generate about $850 billion over 10 years. This equates to $85 billion a year. At current total spending levels of $10 billion every day this will pay for 8.5 days. How do we pay for the other 356.5 days? Even if you simply apply it to our current deficit of $1.2 trillion this only pays for 25 days. How do we pay for the other 340 days? The usual response is,,,,crickets.
Of course they will claim that we must have the tax hikes RIGHT NOW and the other solutions of spending cuts will come later, but they never define later. Later never comes, or it’s based on current spending levels of about 24% of GDP so it’s really just reductions in elevated spending, not real cuts. ‘
Your arguments are sound to real Americans who understand the severity of damage that a century of Progressivism has created. Liberals/Progressives will never admit it however. This is the shame they have to live with.
It’s just sad they do.
As of 2010, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 35.4% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 53.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 89%, leaving only 11% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers).
So, to continue, if YOU were looking to generate revenue, would you:
A) republican tax plan: not tax at all
b) republican tax plan if dems raise taxes: tax everyone(even the 11% of wealth distributed to 80% of the population)
c) ObamaTax: tax 89% of the wealth split among 20% of the population.
I cannot fathom the mindset that makes someone feel entitled to damn near 90% of all wealth, to the selfish greedy level of complaining when their tax liability jumps 3%, or hell, even 10%, when you already have handouts from the government that enable you to get that wealthy in the first place...
social “safety net” programs are the cause of our economic calamity
--is it that, or poor management/implementation, did social security have problems before the interest was raided? In engineering, there are such things as bad designs/architectures, but more often than not, it is the implementation that is the issue. Instead of saying, "the house is bad, we must not build it", I'd rather say, "the house is bad, we must build it better". Even if the design is bad, there are always other designs, that work...that whole science thing you know. Blaming entitlements for "all our financial issues" is an elementary school oversimplification of a complex problem.
Since when did entitlements become a dirty word? If they are "bad things" then why would the wealthy be entitled to keep the extra 3% in taxes, but the non-wealthy not be allowed affordable basic human medical care?
Idealism aside, just pragmatism, where is the largest source of revenue when we do tax...
When talking about "fair", you are opening a massive discussion. Is it just as fair to flat tax 10% on 30,000 for a family of 4, as it is to 10% on 10,000,000 for a family of 4? Although flat tax can be fair, it can only be fair as long as equality of opportunity is strictly enforced(not a fan of equality of outcome). Even then, some folks just aren't at the top of the Darwinian hierarchy, I believe there is a saying, remarking about how great a country can be judged by how it treats its less fortunate members...
I'd personally feel sorry for someone that doesn't have a "living wage number", for instance, someone that has 10 million, that says, it is barely enough, what a poorly adjusted person.
Kuato - "I cannot fathom the mindset that makes someone feel entitled to damn near 90% of all wealth, to the selfish greedy level of complaining when their tax liability jumps 3%, or hell, even 10%, when you already have handouts from the government that enable you to get that wealthy in the first place..."
Or how about this
I cannot fathom the mindset that makes someone feel entitled to somebody else's labor. to the selfish greed level of taking their wealth by force, when they already have the handouts from the government that enable them to become complacent in the first place.
and finally the numbers you mention 3% or 10% isn't going to help a darn person, when the Government is already borrowing 40 cents of every dollar spent.
How is promising people a fake and unrealistic promise helping anybody?
And lets be honest shouldn't the Government tax at 100% so it can redistribute it fairly among everybody?
Entitlements became a dirty word when it was decided that taking somebody's labor by force and giving it somebody else was good thing.
And if basic human medical care is an entitlement, how is food and water not, how is basic shelter not?
your house analogy is way off, we are fixing it we are continuing down the road to bankruptcy for Medicare (just a few short years away) and Social security (about 20 or so years away) so of course lets not try and fix it less pretend that taxing the rich will solve that problem also.
Tom - Plymouth-3672298
Are you talking about Walmart? They pay their employees wages too low to live on and the government has to pay for food stamps so that Walmart employees don't show up at work looking emaciated and are unable to function. It scares off the customers. Very bad for business. Food stamps are subsidizing crony capitalists, not the employees.
Really Walmart pay is too low? If you check all the office people make the same as industry average, all supervisors and managers make industry average, they get quarterly bonus's, do you?
But of course you aren't talking about what the "professional" jobs, you are talking about mindless check out jobs or the stocking the shelves type jobs, aren't you, and they I ask you why you are every retailers case is it because you are lazy or just UN-informed?
THESE JOBS WEREN'T MEANT TO BE CAREERS, THEY WERE MEANT TO BE STARTER JOBS OR TRANSITIONS JOBS, BUT YOU @!$%#ING MORON'S THINK THEY SHOULD PAY LIKE THEY ARE AN ACTUAL CAREERS!
HOW ABOUT GETTING A SKILL SOMEBODY IS WILLING TO PAY FOR? How many people grow up thinking the best I can do is push carts at walmart and hope to make a career out of it?
Tom - Plymouth-3672298
Gee, all caps, so it must be true. I see you're pretending not to notice that the government is subsidizing Walmart corporation with food stamps and earned-income tax credits for their low-wage employees. That's a FACT, no matter how much you despise those workers, the government is subsidizing Walmart, not the workers.
Um actually they are subsidizing the people and again why the attack on walmart and not all retail?
So if those workers went out and got second or maybe even third jobs would they need to be subsidized?
But hey go on telling people they should make a career out of NO-Skilled jobs! You know the ones anybody with a 6th grade education can do.
Tom - Plymouth-3672298
The government provides food stamps and EIC to workers so that Walmart doesn't have to pay them a living wage. If you aren't bright enough to understand that, that's your problem. And of course, there are many businesses besides Walmart that profit from the government's largesse. Subsidizing business is why the Repubs came up with the Earned Income Tax Credit in the first place.
I predict that the next Republican candidate will actually BE a plastic bag of flatulence rather than just a twit that plays one on T.V..
Corporate media/both political parties prepare for historic deception and betrayal of american people
"…[ Senator] Durbin also acknowledged that behind the public façade of fiscal cliff talks, the real decisions were being made in secret. “We’re playing Ping-Pong up here, but they’re rolling bowling balls under the table,” he told the Democratic think tank…"
"…The New York Times published an article Tuesday entitled “A Tax Break Once Sacred Is Now Seen As Vulnerable,” noting closed-door discussions on reducing or ending the tax deduction for home mortgage interest payments, a provision that saves tens of millions of homeowners thousands of dollars a year…"
US fiscal cliff talks target the working class
By Barry Grey
29 November 2012
As the deadline for the so-called “fiscal cliff” grows nearer, the indications mount that, behind the smokescreen of deficit talks and media hype, the artificial fiscal emergency is the starting point of a process for making deep structural cuts in basic social programs that previously would have been considered politically impossible...
...As the deadline for the so-called “fiscal cliff” grows nearer, the indications mount that, behind the smokescreen of deficit talks and media hype, the artificial fiscal emergency is the starting point of a process for making deep structural cuts in basic social programs that previously would have been considered politically impossible.
Scattered press reports and statements by some Democrats as well as Republicans make clear that any deal to avert the fiscal cliff will only be a down payment on fundamental attacks on social entitlements. In discussion are such moves as raising the eligibility age for Medicare, the government health insurance program for the elderly, cutting benefits for recipients of Medicare and Medicaid (the health program for the poor), and ending Medicare’s status as a universal program by instituting means-testing.
While the Democrats are proposing that Social Security, the government pension program for the elderly, not be included in a short-term agreement to be reached before the end of the year, they are not excluding structural changes in Social Security further down the road.
At the same time, both parties and the White House are agreed in principle on a revamping of the tax code to cut taxes for corporations and the rich and increase the tax burden on the vast majority of Americans…
While this political theater is being staged for public consumption, corporate CEOs are descending on the White House and Capital Hill for secret meetings with both parties to ensure that any eventual budget deal conforms to their agenda.
White House officials met Monday with leaders of the Business Roundtable and the Chamber of Commerce. On Wednesday, Obama met in the White House with a group of CEOs, including Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs. Blankfein was denounced last year by the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations for his role in the sub-prime mortgage racket that triggered the financial meltdown in 2008.
Also present were the CEOs of Caterpillar, Home Depot, Coca Cola, Yahoo, Merck, Pfizer, Deloitte, Macy’s, Comcast, State Farm Insurance, Marriott, AT&T and Archer Daniels Midland…
…Illinois Senator Dick Durbin, the number-two Senate Democrat and senior senator from Obama’s home state, signaled in a speech Tuesday before the Center for American Progress, a liberal Washington think tank, the readiness of the administration to make major cuts in basic entitlement programs. “We can’t be so naïve to believe that just taxing the rich will solve our problems,” he said, adding, “Put everything on the table. Repeat. Everything on the table.”
Durbin has made clear he is open to raising the Medicare eligibility age and instituting a form of means testing, which would turn the program into a poverty scheme and prepare the way for its dismantling.
Durbin also acknowledged that behind the public façade of fiscal cliff talks, the real decisions were being made in secret. “We’re playing Ping-Pong up here, but they’re rolling bowling balls under the table,” he told the Democratic think tank…
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/nov2012/clif-n29.shtml
Tom - it must be terrible for you living in your fantasy world knowing all the while how wrong you are. So, so sad.
When was the last time a republican/"conservative" president actually balanced the budget?
The last time a democrat did it was in the 90's
NUFF SAID, lol
Just lose gracefully this time, ok?
Tom said, "and finally the numbers you mention 3% or 10% isn't going to help a darn person, when the Government is already borrowing 40 cents of every dollar spent."
Ok, let me dumb this down for you a bit, instead of focusing on the number, try the concept, to help, think "X%" instead of 3 or 10.
Tom said, "I cannot fathom the mindset that makes someone feel entitled to somebody else's labor. to the selfish greed level of taking their wealth by force, when they already have the handouts from the government that enable them to become complacent in the first place."
I'm not sure where you pulled this from, or what type of liberals you know. I personally know several. 2 Doctors, 3 attorneys, 20+ engineers, 1 physicist, 7 math teachers, 2 CEOs, etc, etc. All of them work hard, and have no desire for someone elses labor fruit. I also know of nobody, conservative or liberal, that got to where they are without help of some kind. Either by family, or government, they got help, at some point in their lineage, that got them to where they are at. The difference between the conservatives and liberals that I see, is that conservatives feel ENTITLED to what they have because they IGNORE this FACT, that being, they had help and in turn refuse to give back sometimes even refusing to give back on their own terms. More often than not, this selfishness is a trait shared by the wealthy, because, lets be honest, in oversimplified terms, you don't get rich by giving your money away(of course Jesus might argue with that point).
I have personally never even heard of liberals in this country taking the wealth by FORCE. If history is any indicator though, once the wealth gap gets large enough, and folks in the bottom 80% are fighting for the 10% left to them, you'll see more than force, you'll see revolution.
Just FYI - ALL, that's ALL, of the founders were "liberal". The idea that the King was NOT ENTITLED to take what was his by birth(see he felt as entitled to that wealth by birthright as you do by "work") was progressive. Yes, Tom, it was progressive.
Tom said, "your house analogy is way off, we are fixing it we are continuing down the road to bankruptcy for Medicare (just a few short years away) and Social security (about 20 or so years away) so of course lets not try and fix it less pretend that taxing the rich will solve that problem also."
How is it off. Is this like when Romney looked at the president and said, "Thats just wrong" but then didn't back it up with ANY facts, or alternatives?
Revenue WILL HELP solve the problem. And when taxing is done, where would you tax, provided that you wish to leave at least some money for folks to drive demand.
11% of all wealth allocated to the vast majority of people that drive demand
or
89% of all wealth allocated to very few people that drive supply(keeping in mind supply is driven by demand)
Not a complicated problem
I forgot to ask you did Romney lose because his rehashed Bush era Tea-tremist ideas don't work, or because the vast majority of the people in this country(and if you evaluate the winning ideology, the world for that matter) are dumber than you?
Is this your assertion? Arrogance, ignorance, ego.
Tom - challenge:
Answer my original question:
did social security have problems before the interest was raided?
While you're at it, tell me who raided it first...
Try as I might, it is impossible for me not to refer the House GOP as a band of imbeciles. Perhaps there was a group rate lobotomy session as apparently the wakeup call that generally arrives after an extraordinary election year loss is ringing into empty space between deaf ears. The Party has named the chairs to various committees and not one is held by a woman or person of color. This old white guy band continues to fart and march to the beat of some fabled ‘Real America’ past. Maybe Mars will attack in search of white meat only, zombie flesh.
John is an old fart turned inside out, the stench coming from him is troublesome !!!!!!!
No end to the blame game with the end of the election. Whatever happened to leaders actually leading? Is Harry Reid and the Democratic Party so inept that they cannot find any common ground that can bring both sides to the table? Does Obama really need to be campaigning around the country for a tax increase that will generate enough revenue to run the federal government for just 8 days? How is that a solution that demands such pomp and circumstance? The Democrats have controlled the House for 46 of the past 60 years, and 40 of the past 60 in the Senate. Yet it has been over 40 years since a Democrat controlled Congress actually put forth a balanced budget. So where is the track record of the Democratic Party that enlists such rabid support and finger pointing? Governing is leading, and not simply imposing your will. All that blame and excuses are doing for this country is standing in the way of solutions.
Rick
You obviously have never had to deal with spoiled rotten children have you? That is just what the Republicans/Teas are like. They are now holding there breath and turning purple. The stomp their collective feet and Pout, cry, whine hoping to get their way. The adults in the room (Democrats & Independents) need to put the "children" in time-out. The spanking they received in November was apparently not Hard enough. But in 2014 they are in for a hard lesson if they don't compromise now
I just got off the phone with All my Congress people (both sides) and told them to STOP playing games and fix the fiscal cliff by raising the tax on the 3% er. They have had a Free ride now for years. Do the cuts needed and move on. DO YOUR JOBS.
Pray - "They have had a Free ride now for years"
Wait so the 3% ers? haven't been paying taxes? What defines a free ride?
If I own a car and pay for the insurance, all the maintenance and most of the gas and everyday you ride to work with me.
Which one of us are getting a free ride?
Top 3% pay 50% of the taxes
FYI - "Treasury Department analysts credit President Bush's tax cuts with shifting a larger share of the individual income taxes paid to higher income taxpayers. In 2005, says the Treasury, when most of the tax cut provisions are fully in effect (e.g., lower tax rates, the $1,000 child credit, marriage penalty relief), the projected tax share for lower-income taxpayers will fall, while the tax share for higher-income taxpayers will rise."
By your definition it is Me. Do you realize how insane that sounds?
Rice is a black woman. She should "throw the race/victim card". It's the convenient card of choice for 'people of color' and it still might have some miles left on it. Also, point out that revising entitlements and cutting the Federal Budget is 'racist' and will affect welfare payments and food stamps.
Tom
You don't make much sense. Go back and READ what the tax rate was on the 3% in the last 60 years. Note what was the rate when this country was in prosperity. Look at how the rich have fair-ed in worth compared to the middle class (that is shrinking) and the poor. If you don't see a pattern...then you are truly Blind or dumb or both.
The majority (by all polls) want the tax's to go back up to what they were under Clinton OR Reagan
Try dear to keep up.
Oh and I'm sure you believe the Rich create jobs..right??? You need to lay off the TEA.
pray - you do realize new people every year become rich, it is fluid.
The ability to move up and down classes is as great as it has ever been.
I moved out of lower class in upper middle class, and I have friends that have moved the other way.
FYI - you are correct only the Government and poor create jobs. Entrepreneurs, investors and inventors don't create any jobs what so ever.
yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah.
It's the same everyday, day in and day out. No new taxes blah blah blah don't touch social security or medicare yadda yadda yadda.
Am I the only one getting tired of the crap? (Which is a reference to Thomas Crapper the inventor of the flushing toilet).
Here's the solution:
1. Raise taxes on the top 10% back to where they were during the Clinton Presidency.
2. Cut military spending by 10%
3. Keep the retirement age at 65 but eliminate early retirement at 62 (I'm 62). Yep, it will hurt. I was going to retire next year. But it if helps the country, I'll stay on until I'm 65.
4. Crack down on Medicare and Medicaid fraud, HARD.
5. Tax Church Property. (With exemptions for for amall congregations or congregations in poor communities)
6. Legalize Marijuana and TAX IT!
7. Legalize Prostitution and TAX IT!
8. Close the tax loopholes.
9. Tax companies that send American jobs off-shore.
10. Offer Tax incentives to companies that bring jobs HOME from overseas.
11. TAX OFF SHORE INVESTMENTS AND ACCOUNTS. Buh-bye Swiss Banks and Cayman Banks. Those investments and shelters are GONE.
12. Raise the tariff to make it less attractive to buy cheap goods from overseas. BUY AMERICAN!
We would erase the entire deficit in a decade and have a surplus without harming Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid, or making any drastic changes to any of those programs.
Then if you really want to downsize, cut congressional staff and budgets. Close the congressional gym and cut back on all their various perks. Toss the lobbyists out of Washington or better yet TAX THEM BIG TIME! You got money to through around Grover? THROW IT TO THE US GOVERNMENT.
IN FACT....TAX GROVER NORQUIST!
Now get to work and shaddup.
So Skip what you are saying is we have a spending problem in the military (I happen to agree) and no other spending problems just revenue problems?
How about we cut every dollar the Government spends by 1%?
8. Close tax loopholes - to everybody or just a select few? If we take about deductions for children and interest on mortgages, how do you think that will help the economy?
9. Tax companies that send American jobs off-shore - Couldn't you do the exact opposite and get a better result? Lower taxes and regulations here to have them bring people back?
11 - TAX OFF SHORE INVESTMENTS AND ACCOUNTS - How would you possibly enforce this? Without the Government taking over the banking system completely?
12 - Raise the tariff to make it less attractive to buy cheap goods from overseas. - Wouldn't this hurt the poor the most? Most people I know that have wealth are already doing this?
One you missed would be to quit taxing double taxing business that make money overseas. If you have business in Germany and make a profit, Germany will tax you (as they should) then if you bring that capital back to the US, the US taxes it again to get to the 35%. Wouldn't it be better to say, sweet you made a bunch of money in Germany now bring that back here and invest it in America?
and finally how about we get rid of the politicians making their friends rich off the tax payers. Check out Solyndra, Freddie Mac, and Halliburton.
Why do people keep saying raising taxes is going to solve are problems?
Sounds good Tom. Cut there pay by 1% alot better than the 20% cut I had to take because they(Congress people(Senate and House of Rep.) ) can NOT run this country correctly. They let the banks make up there own RULES. They let the housing crisis go on for way to long, instead of bailing out the banks they would of been better off helping those that were losing there homes at NO fault of there own.
I gladly gave them back the property they refused to work with me on, after paying another 14K in payments while trying to get them to work with me on it.
Get the CROOKS out of Washington, ALL OF THEM, DEMORAT & REPUBLICANT
Wal-Mart’s strategy of deniability for workers’ safety
By Harold Meyerson
Over the weekend, a horrific fire swept through a Bangladesh clothing factory, killing more than 100 workers, many of whose bodies were burnt so badly that they could not be identified. In its gruesome particulars — locked doors, no emergency exits, workers leaping to their deaths — the blaze seems a ghastly centennial reenactment of the Triangle Shirtwaist fire of 1911, when 146 workers similarly jumped to their deaths or were incinerated after they found the exit doors were locked.
The signal difference between the two fires is location. The Triangle building was located directly off New York’s Washington Square. Thousands watched the appalling spectacle of young workers leaping to the sidewalks 10 stories down; reporters and photographers were quickly on the scene. It’s not likely, however, that the Bangladesh disaster was witnessed by anyone from either the United States or Europe — the two markets for which the clothes made inside that factory were destined. For that, at least, Wal-Mart should consider itself fortunate.
The Bangladesh factory supplied clothing to a range of retailers, and officials who have toured the site said they found clothing with a Faded Glory label — a Wal-Mart brand
If this were an isolated incident of Wal-Mart denying responsibility for the conditions under which the people who make and move its products labor, then the Bangladeshi disaster wouldn’t reflect quite so badly on the company. But the very essence of the Wal-Mart system is to employ thousands upon thousands of workers through contractors and subcontractors and sub-subcontractors, who are compelled by Wal-Mart’s market power and its demand for low prices to cut corners and skimp on safety. And because Wal-Mart isn’t the employer of record for these workers, the company can disavow responsibility for their conditions of work.
This system isn’t reserved just for workers in faraway lands: Tens of thousands of American workers labor under similar arrangements. Many are employed at little more than the minimum wage in the massive warehouses in the inland exurbs of Los Angeles, where Wal-Mart’s imports from Asia are trucked from the city’s harbor to be sorted and packaged and put on the trucks and trains that take them to Wal-Mart stores for a thousand miles around.
The warehouses are run by logistics companies with which Wal-Mart contracts, and most of the workers are employed by some of the 200-plus temporary employment companies that have sprung up in the area — even though many of the workers have worked in the same warehouses for close to a decade. Last year, the California Department of Industrial Relations, suspecting that many of these workers were being cheated, charged one logistics company that runs a warehouse for Wal-Mart with failing to provide its employees with pay stubs and other information on their pay rates. Wal-Mart itself was not cited. That’s the beauty of its chain of deniability
Other discount retailers — notably Costco and Trader Joe’s — pay their workers far more, train them more extensively, have much lower rates of turnover and much higher rates of sales per employee, according to a Harvard Business Review article by Zeynep Ton of the MIT Sloan School of Management. Costco is a very profitable business, but Wal-Mart maintains an even higher profit margin, which it achieves by underpaying its employees. The conservative economic blogger Megan McArdle estimates that if Wal-Mart held its profit margin down to Costco’s level, its average worker would make about $2,850 more each year — a considerable increase in a sector where workers’ earnings average less than $25,000 a year.
But Wal-Mart neither pays its own nor takes responsibility for those who make and move its wares. For America’s largest private-sector employer, the emergency exits are always open.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-wal-marts-strategy-of-deniability-for-workers-safety/2012/11/27/8e59f88c-38c6-11e2-8a97-363b0f9a0ab3_story.html?hpid=z6
___________________________________________________________
Folks there is neither rhyme nor reason for stuff like this.
We are not only allowing the offshoring of jobs we are also allowing the offshoring of our most egregious Business Practices. This is all stuff that we dealt with back in the 1920’s and 30’s.
Kinda defines the term Ugly American don’t it.
Wally Mart used to take pride in supplying American Made products. Not anymore. Couple that with the fact that they cost the Taxpayers an average of 1000.00 dollars in Public Assistance because they don’t pay their “associates” in most cases a living wage. Then you need to take into consideration that in a lot of cases they don’t have to pass on Sales Tax collections to the States and Local Municipalities and it don’t take to long till you see that the Wally Mart down on the corner as more of a liability than an asset.
Ol’ Sam Walton would be so proud of what his Children hath wrought.
Floyd,
This kinda stuff defies words...
The greed has to STOP!
Wally's World serves NO purpose other than to line the pockets of the Walton klan!
PS: How is it COSTCO manages to pay their workers a living wage of $17.50 per hour with benefits?
Could it be because their CEO only takes a salary of approx $600,000 per year?
Excellent article and added thoughts. Thanks for posting it. We didn't hear it reported on the nightly news; it should have been. Paid slave labor with equally appalling work conditions in the name of cheap goods, profit and corporate greed. The American workers who fought to unionize were fighting for better, safer working conditions and living wages. It should anger Americans to learn that big business simply exported the worst aspects of free-market capitalism in the name of profit.
The GOP has demonized unions for decades, blamed the unions for loss of jobs overseas. The GOP is wrong, businesses shipped jobs overseas out of greed and disregard for humanity. On the infamous 47% video, Mitt Romney spoke about a factory in China with deplorable working conditions, long hours for little pay but if you listen to his words, he wasn't condemning it. We only notice it when we read about a horrific fire in Bangladesh. We don't think about those paid slave labor workers when going to Apple for the latest i-Phone or i-Pad, or to Wal-mart for the latest cheap product to hit the shelves.
No one thinks Wal-mart or ??? shouldn't make a good profit. The short-sightedness of Wal-mart and ??? is they cut their workers hours which means those workers have fewer dollars to spend which means (in Wal-mart's case), those workers need food stamps which means an unnecessary and bigger burden on aid programs. Wal-mart cuts the workers hours and end up forcing the corporation to search for even cheaper products at lower costs because Wal-mart isn't paying their workers enough to be able to afford even their products. It's a giant snowball rolling down hill: less pay, less money for economic growth meaning fewer jobs created; less pay and less money for economic growth meaning fewer jobs created; less pay and less money for economic growth.
Wal-mart and the others just like them whether FedEx, UPS or ?? keep squeezing the middle and lower income workers. Such an approach is short-sighted profit taking with zero understanding of long-term growth and economic health of ALL workers--not just those at the top.
Ir & Feisty: Thank you both; I do have an option to my refusal to ever use a Waly Mart. I try to shop local, but that is not always possible. ☺
p.s. You make it fun to drop by for a read.
Hi Floyd,
I remember when Walmart pulled out of Germany. It wasn't a pleasant experience for the Walmart boys, who crashed and burned there.
A brief summary of the Walmart failure:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-macaray/why-did-walmart-leave-ger_b_940542.html
Good morning you guys. It used to seem so silly, so empty to go around and talk about greed, corporate welfare, obscene profits. It made us feel good to notice the inequities. Then, we re-examined these ideas as we aged and wondered if maybe were weren't a bit over-the-top. Maybe that was just idealism talking.
Well, years later and examining and re-examining those ideas, we find we were right. Greed has infected this nation to the extent that virtually everything now comes with a price tag. Success is measured only in dollars. Corporate welfare? That's not some sort of mirage, a figment of a lefty's imagination. It's real. It's codified. It's a part of the tax code. Obscene profits. Well, what's IR's article shows. CEO's lavishing obscene compensation packages on themselves. Damn! Look at Hostess. It's right there for anyone who wants to see.
Yes. Unmitigated greed, corporate welfare, obscene profits. That's not the stuff of idealism. It's very, very real, and it's very, very sick.
Yesterday I heard someone on the KPFT radio show "Democracy Now" explain the process that led to Walmart. The garment factory fire in 1911 led to the formation of garment workers unions. To avoid paying their unionized workers the living wages and safe work conditions they demanded, the employers began moving their factories overseas where they could get cheap labor from workers willing to work under dangerous conditions. So it's not just the jobs that the monied interests have moved over seas. They've also moved the danger and death overseas, too. If the big money folks succeed in crushing unions here, the low wage jobs and death by fire for workers will come back to America, and the cycle will be complete.
McCain & Graham should go on a hunting trip with Dick Cheney, problem solved ??????
Houston, good points. Reagan really began pushing the anti-union chatter and the result is that for 30 years, unions have been in decline. The GOPers "Right-to-Work" laws--the name itself is brilliantly deceiving--are intended to eliminate collective bargaining rights. Employees in states which have so-called Right to Work laws earn 7% less than in states without the laws.
that is on target Jody and in some cases the unemployment rate is still the same as states wthout right to work laws . In Florida which is a right to work law state not only is pay much lower thatn your 7% less we also have a higher unemployment rate. So nobody wins except big business.
Walmart is an evil entity, but if they became unionized, all would be right with the world.
Any idiot can spew that the unions are great, just as another can spew they are worthless.
I say they were a good thing when they were first started, now they have become to powerful. They are bankrupting companies, they will send the auto industry to the bankruptcy courts may not be this week or this year but in the NOT so far futher they will be there.
No company can afford to pay those benefits and stay in business. Just like the government they can NOT afford to keep up there payroll spending and benefits for LIFE, at the taxpayers expence.
There should be NO union in the government, I do NOT need a group of people asking congress to pony up more cash for payroll & bennies and then you have congress that agrees to give themselves a raise at our cost. When was the last time you heard of a government worker that was working in UNSAFE working conditions, or was not paid more than they were worth.
If they tried to put a union in my business I have the right to say YOUR fired leave if you do not like the work. I will never let a UNION in my business.
I believe that 200 per day is good pay, to sit in an office and do a little work. My workers do NOT need a union to take there money from them I will not pay more than that period. NO ONE is worth more than that a day.
Every year around this time you'll start to see messages suggesting that you send a Christmas card addressed to "A Recovering American Soldier" at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. Please do not do this. These cards do not get received by anyone due to security risks involved.
Once again this year the American Red Cross is doing its Holiday Mail for Heroes campaign. Please send Christmas cards to them at...
Holiday Mail for Heroes
P.O. Box 5456
Capitol Heights, MD 20791-5456
Full details are here...
www.redcross.org/support/get-involved/holiday-mail-for-heroes
Deadline is December 7!
Thank you for this post! It's important to let our military know that we remember them! How about everyone on here commits to sending out a few cards? I'm in!
Thanks for posting the information, Da Noid. It's true, we do get emails urging this or that along with dozens of requests from groups for donations. Many of those groups wanting money are unknown to me and my guess is that some are not on the up and up. It's best to stick with groups, organizations we recognize and know as legitimate.
dA nOID..... YOU AS A REGISTERED CARD CARRRYING LIBERAL SHOULD NOT BE POSTING THIS "DRIVEL"....
Are you not of the same party that despises the military? ccording to your people shouldn't we let these creatons die the miserable death they deserve? I mean seriously....most of them probably voted for that EVIL Mitt Romney anyways right? The deserve to die just for that Ibelieve some of your people have said....
nyways.... just think about all the lazy Obama worshippers that can get "free" health care if we just let these "neanderthals" die right?
Has it not occurred to anyone in the GOP that if they really wanted to get serious about Benghazi they should be questioning someone other than Susan Rice?
The problem is the GOP lacks the ability to have such a thought occur to them.
Instead of attacking the enemy (those who murdered Ambassador Stevens and three other Americans), instead of focusing on finding out how to prevent future attacks, the "three blind mice" attack our UN Ambassador Rice who was relaying the information given her which had been edited by our intelligence groups. Those remarks were edited for a reason: to prevent the enemy from knowing what we were doing and what we knew about them. Why aren't the three yahoos of McCain, Graham and Ayotte outraged at Darryl Issa who released classified information that outed a CIA operation in Libya--placing Americans and Libyans in harm's way--during Issa's zestful Benghazi witch hunt. Why aren't they demanding to know why Issa didn't clear the information before releasing it? Well, duh.
You will never get anything from OBLAMER so you have to go to the person that LIED to us on National TV.
If you enjoy these FOOLS in Washington lying to you then I guess you are in a good place, myself I think they all should be held to the same standards that ou would hold your kids to. I know I do NOT expect my kids to LIE to me, I have taught them it is better to fess up rather than try to cover it up. Maybe that is just the white way. Holder, Rice, Oblamer all of them seem to think it is OK to LIE to the American public. I see alot of you seem to think it is OK for them to LIE to us.
They all should be sent packing and replaced with COMPETENT & HONEST people. I know hard to find anymore.
McCain's disturbed, huh? NO SH!T!! Back on your meds, codger!!!
I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but I'm sorry to say you most likely aren't going to win Powerball tonight. The odds are sadly against you...
Chance of dying from a bee sting: 1 in 6.1 million
Chance of being struck by lightning over an 80-year lifetime: 1 in 10,000
Chance of dying from being struck by lightning: 1 in 3 million
Chance of making a hole-in-one on a par-3 hole: 1 in 12,500
Chance of making a hole-in-one on 3 consecutive par-3 holes: 1 in about 156 million
Chance of drowning or being involved in any other beach-related fatality: 1 in 2 million
Chance of being attacked by a shark: 1 in 11.5 million
Chance of hitting a deer with a car in Hawaii, the state where State Farm says deer-vehicle collisions are least likely: 1 in 6,267
Chance of winning Powerball: 1 in 175,223,510
"So you're saying there's a chance!" - Lloyd Christmas, Dumb and Dumber
Damn, noid. You stole my reply before I could type it.
How about - "You can't win, if you don't play"
One chance is infinitely greater than zero chance. Buy one ticket. Hope for the best.
DaNoid--BUT---I'm allergic to bees, my grandfather was struck by lightening twice in his life (true story), my dad ran a golf course, I grew up with a golf club in my hand, I live now on Cape Cod 200 yards from the beach and we've had an epidemic of great white sharks here this past year...if I can just figure out the hitting a deer in Hawaii thing....heck, I'm going out to buy a Powerball ticket anyway!!! It's fate!
Da Noid-
Got my ticket...We shall see what happens.
BTW, I believe NM has the most deaths in the nation due to being struck by lightning.
"So, I got THAT going for me.... which is nice."
Salud
I had no idea Lloyd's last name was Christmas. I'm glad I got up this morning!
No, one chance is infintesimally better than zero. I don't buy lottery tickets, and my chance of winning is nearly as high as someone who buys one ticket.
Never, never take your lottery ticket and drive to a coastal golf course during a storm without a bee hat and shark repellant.
Actually the chances of anyone else winning the power ball are near zero, after all I have purchased the winning ticket and have it in my pocket at this time. ( - ;
Da Noid: A good example of how statistics can be made to lie.
That can not be just my buddies shark fishing (CPR). That has to be including people in New Mexico?
Exito, it must also include fishing, boating or jet skiing in the Mississippi River as it flows by my Iowa town.
What's the chance of a Hole-in-One on a Par 4 Hole ?
clotho: ONE chance is infinitely larger than Zero chance. TWO is infinity plus one larger than zero. The difference in the odds of winning, between buying one and two tickets is what is infinitessmally small. Need I go on? One out of 176million is infinitely larger than 0/176million.
GOP still smarting from kicking their butts kicked by the community organizer!
Americans sent GOP a message on 11/6 and if they don't get it, which it appears many still don't, another message will be sent 2014, with more Repubs losing their seats in Congress.
President Obama was re-elected and a main part of his campaign was removing the Bush tax cuts on incomes over $250,000. In fact more Americans agree with removing the tax cut for over $250,000 than voted for President Obama, so even Repubs want those tax cuts to end.
Great point.
Once again Lindsey Graham reminds us he nothing but a southern 'Cracker', a Graham Cracker. Three white stooges piling on a person of color. They just sound and look ridiculous.
Tom, they do sound and look ridiculous; yesterday they added the irrelevant icing on their stupid cake. NONE of those three fools has the academic credentials Ms. Susan Rice has: valedictorian, Phi Beta Kapa at Stanford, Truman Scholar, Rhodes Scholar with PhD from Oxford. McCain, however, claims she isn't "too bright"; if memory serves me, McCain graduated from the Naval Academy near the bottom of his class and probably only graduated because of his family ties.
Captain Obama
From the article above:
And so, the deal should get done by Christmas.
This is just the first of many battles Democrats will be winning the next two years.
Coming off the Landslide-Mandate Election romp of the Governor and the Republican field, President Obama will be able to dictate the policy and get America moving forward.
The President has the upper hand, and will continue to do so his next term.
Reality is finally catching up with the whiny, sore-loser republicans. Their constant bullying and lying has come back to bite them.
So, Republicans; How does it feel to shout in a forest where no one can hear you?
Nor give a damn about what you think anymore?
Salud
Yeah. but Democrats need to vote. Each and every year, at all levels of government. If you don't, sh!t happens! Like 2010. Stay thirsty, my friend!
I really think most could careless. You libbies won, not sure what you won, but well done. I will be fine regardless of the outcome. I am glad the Republican party is destroyed. I hope there will be a new one and one that is for the people. Right now, neither party knows how to do that. Have fun all, remember, life is what you make it. Key word, YOU make it.
Republicans: Karma is a b**ch, ain't it?
plsthink---we do need a strong, vibrant party to counterbalance the dems. It's not good for any party to go unchecked and unchallenged. A party that could engage in serious debate about serious issues. The biggest problem with the GOP has been that if they did have any coherent arguments, they were lost in anti-abortion, anti-immigration, anti-social security, anti-medicare, anti-science, etc! I mean look at the witchhunt the republicans are engaging in now...they're not trying to find out the truth about Benghazi, they're playing partisan semantics with a tragedy....just another sick game.
I agree Sue you sound like a sensible independent. We definately do need a two party system, it is a check and balance , I have to disagree with you plsthink90, If you look at the democratic platform then see what the American people want they are almost one in the same, most favor tax increase for rich, most favor gettting out of Afghanastan, most favor parts of the Affordable care act,most favor wall street refrom and the list can go on.
Tomas, well said. Coburn seems to grasp that going off the fiscal cliff for the richest 2% simply reinforces what many people knew or suspected--the GOP is more concerned with those like Romney than they are about "Joe the Plumber".
President Obama and democrats really do have the GOP over a barrel. The republicans see Niagra Falls coming but can't quite figure out whether to jump now or hold their breath and hang on to Grover.
sueb, while I agree we need two strong, vibrant political parties--each one to balance the other, the problem is the republicans over the past 30 years have lost the ability to govern. From the GOP we have heard for too long talk of their "permanent majority", "take back our country" because only they are entitled to govern. They talk about fiscal responsibility but since Reagan, the GOP has been anything but fiscally responsible. Fiscal responsibility isn't just low tax rates, it is balancing the needs of the country as a whole in terms of revenues (tax rates) along with sensible spending to keep the country strong and vibrant for the future. Republicans have been lost in the trickle down wilderness, the Grover anti-tax ideology for so long that they fail to recognize that such small-minded, selfish thinking has made this country weaker, not stronger. I'm all for a revitalized GOP but as long as they have groups like Club for Growth and Grover's anti-tax groups, the social values groups, they will continue to "purify" the party down to the size--as Norquist would like to happen to government--where it can be drowned in a bathtub.
I don't agree with everything democrats say or propose but their ideology is more closely aligned with my own personal views. To name a few, I believe government has and should have a role in our lives; government (we the people as a whole) has a responsibility to help the least among us. I believe government has the responsibility to ensure equal rights for all. I believe that we need a strong military but we can certainly cut defense spending and still be strong. My personal beliefs and values are mine but I do not have a right to force them on everyone else.
Rupert...who?
Tom Price???
WTF
The Democrats are split on what cuts to make??
So if an agreement doesn't happen, there must be some way to blame it all on the Republicans. Right? Am I right people?
Got to tell you stress, the largest part of the problem is caused by Republicans. If we look at the debt alone 90% was brought on by republican borrow and spend politics. They pay for nothing and yet spend, spend, spend. Wars on credit cards are expensive is an example. Another is the drug benefit for seniors. With Reagan it was "star wars", among other things. The only president and congress that was near fiscally responsible was the Clinton administration and the republican congress that produced balanced budgets without so much pain for the lower class's.
Didn't Clinton borrow from SS? You can't blame one party over another for this mess. For every one finger pointing the blame, there are a 100 pointing right back.
Sure both sides add to the deficit and debt but this country has almost always maintained a certain level of debt. The massive debt problems began with Reagan. Debt responsibility: Carter, 42%; Reagan, 189%; Bush 41, 55%; Clinton, 39%; Bush 43, 89%. Let's see, the fiscally responsible crowd added 333% to the debt while the tax and spend crowd added 81%. The Obama added debt is driven mostly by the interest on the pre-existing debt, the two unfunded wars, the unfunded Rx plan (which hurt medicare solvency)--all of which he inherited; then throw in the Great Recession. Had the GOP not been so fiscally IRRESPONSIBLE, climbing out of the near depression would have been much quicker and don't forget, republicans refused to help while ranting about the debt they so willingly voted YEA to.
Democrats need to put something on the table. Even with raising taxes on the rich, we will still have a $1 trillion deficit.
What do you suggest?
Congress should look at the budget of the Clinton administration and use that as a guide. You and I do not see exactly what is in the budget. We can start with defense spending, why do we need military bases all over Germany?
OK...I think defense spending is already on the table for both Parties, to one extent or another. But, tax hikes and defense cuts aren't enough either. Social security is probably "managable," once the "baby-boomer generation" passes, which is roughly over the next twenty years. The big problem is rising health care costs. It may be a combinatioin of the private sector ands government, but I don't see much alternative to some sort of non-profit universal health care system, which would also be combined with tort reform.
Sure I agree Kevin, we should adopt both the taxation and spending limits of the Clinotn era!
Stone6, Which I beleive was the real point of the ACA. A piece of Legislature so bad it will force single payer governement run health coverage.
shesafonte, apparently the majority of Americans do not agree with your view on ACA. Romney made the repeal of aca one of his primary focus in the campaign....he lost, if asked Americans overwhelming support most provisions of the ACA with the exception of the mandate. This was not an Obama idea it was thrown in in order for insurance companies to get on board with ACA. A single payor system is not even on the table. Another tidbit is those opposed to the ACA as a whole include those who want a single payor system in this country which they will never get.
I have no problem in improving on the inadequacies of the ACA. Democrats suffered from the "too many cooks spoil the soup" syndrome, while the Republicans could offer little more than playing to special interest groups through a "credit card" approach regarding across state lines competition (i.e. a race to the bottom regarding consumer protection).
I believe universal health care is a milestone in the progress of human civilization, and we are the only advanced industrrial (or post-industrial) society without it.
Also, basically, I fail to see how Medicare survives without universal health care, with the participation of a generally healthier youth underwriting the over 65 population, similar to social security.
KevinT, a lot of our most seriously wounded soldiers wind up in military hospitals in Germany.
Stone I would love to see universal health care but I just dont see the American people going for it.
Budget talk again.....has the President submitted his budget plan to the House yet, or will he wait until Feb?
All this talk about increasing taxes, where is the plan to reduce excessive government waste?
It is my understanding Sandra Fluke is on the People mag list for Person of the Year. When will ObamaClaus name her Sex Czar?
funnygirl, you are an example of just why the GOP lost the women's vote; phony moniker, phony picture, phony female with your disrespect and contempt for women along with your disrespect for President Obama. Your comment says all we need to know about you and it isn't pretty.
President Obama has submitted a budget to the House every year as required. February is the usual and customary month for all presidents regardless of party.
Jody in Iowa, aren't you special! We all know about budgets, and we all know Harry has sat on budgets for some time. Obama won the election, I'll concede this, but now that he's won, why is he still out on the campaign trail and not sitting down to provide his extensive leadership on this financial cliff issue?
As for your previous comments about a conservative, well, I expect nothing more from any liberal on MSNBC or MSNBC. From the last campaign by ObamaClaus, anyone who disagrees with the Occupier of the WH, is called by liberals: a racist because the guy is 1/2 black; a bigot against women because of differences with the liberal view; a 1%'er who doesn't want to be fair in paying taxes but should share their hard-work with others not working as hard; against any liberal war on whatever.
The liberal position is to totally demonize that differning view with personal attacks. Just look on this site and see the comments from the trash libs likeFeisty, Seeking, Navy Guy and others with similar bents. If I made those childish comments I bet I'd get thrown off of this site.
And those comments of division, brought on by this president, continue lon g after the election. It will continue throughout this term. Don't like something - you're a racist, bigot or worse. This is MSNBC, the media of double-playing bigot reporters, pundits and the like.
Everything will always be reported as a Republican problem, not an ObamaClaus issue. I expect it and it makes me laugh at how you libbies treat this Progressive cause as a religion. Go ahead, spend more than the nation can take in. You will then cry that the Republicans have turned this country into an EU environment when you find it doesn't work.
Jody, you refuse to accept truth when presented to you. So the great Obama has been elected: were are those jobs he promised, where is the LOW COST health care, and where are his plans and policies to reduce debt, increase the economy and where is the leadership he professes to have?
Where is Barry today? Is he talking with the House and Senate leadership resolving the cliff?
I like your style Jody, Iowa, and your facts seem to be correct. I have enjoyed reading your posts. Keep up the good work!!
If I were a supporter of hers, I would tell Sen. Ayotte that she is damaging her brand, possibly beyond repair, by standing with Lindsey Graham and John McCain in their senseless and rabid attacks on Susan Rice. I would also emphasize that the optics are especially bad for her--instead of providing those doddering men with a respectable female presence, she is instead allowing us all to compare her with these two foreign policy let's-go-to-war-at-any-cost extremists.
But since I'm not a supporter of this undistinguished senator from New Hampshire, I won't bother.
I hope President Obama learned from his first term that offering concessions before cutting a deal leads to a disastrous outcome. No more offering half the loaf before they take 99% of it.
ELIMINATE ALL TAX DEDUCTIONS ( corporate and personal), reduce all spending programs by 1% every year for the next 10 years, flat tax of 20% on all income levels above $25,000 per year. More revenue, less spending. Increasing the taxes on the higher wage earners does absolutely nothing to solve the deficit, it only demonstrates the lefts rabid desire to redistribute wealth, and their hatred of the wealthy. Where am I wrong ??
Almost everywhere.
A flat tax of 20% would raise taxes on the top 1% and lower taxes on the middle class. Isn't that redistribution of wealth?
We need to keep the mortgage deduction - why would most people own a home if not for the deduction? I do like one of Mitt's proposals - cap deductions. $50k cap on deductions would affect the wealthy more and raise their contribution to revenue. Or maybe the cap should be 20% of all income or $50k, whichever is less.
bleary,
Eliminatig the tax deduction for homeowners would balance the tax rate for those not homeowners. Now isn't this the fair thingy to do?Everyone on equal terms - isn't fairness the Progressive way?
But having said that with tongue in cheek, the elimination wouldn't be fair to you for you probably need that deduction, right?
Just the opposite golfsleft...
Isn't that redistribution of wealth? I don't know. There doesn't seem to be much of a definition of the phrase.
Put the "Grand Bargain" right back on the table exactly as it was the first time it was rejected by the Republicans. I'd kind of like to seee what they say this time AFTER the election.
BTW - catch the Norquist interview on NPR. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/11/28/166000651/grover-norquist-pink-unicorns-arent-real-and-gop-wont-break-tax-pledge
Then after you listen to Norquist, it might be interesting to point-counter point his statements on Keynesian economics with this article. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/revenge-of-the-reality-based-community/
Great link Matthew; that pretty much explains what has happened to the GOP. Bartlett quit drinking the koolaid and regained his sanity; whether on not the rest of them have quit in time to avoid permanent brain damage or not remains to be seen....
While too easy to cast McCain, Graham, and Ayotte as the Three Stooges, this is more fun:
McCain: Old Man Potter in It's a Wonderful Life. Mean, ornery, happy to make America Pottersville.
Graham: Barney Fife. Only question is whether his BFF is Thelma Lou or Goober.
Ayotte: Palin wannabe.
Congress: Greatest comedy act in the history of mankind.
Our Republic has turned into a joke.
Gee Robin, do you have Daddy issues, or are you just a bigot when it comes to old white men?
Your comment is so far out in left field, you are a prime example of why they should bring back lobotomies for a great many members of your party.
Seriously, if you don't take my advice, at least go back on your meds.
Barry Obama as---PT Barnum, Joe Biden as---Uncle Fester, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid as --Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum...And the Entire Congress as The Keystone Cops
Bill-765872 driving the clown car.
.
Maybe it is time for the mostly Christian GOP Senators and Representatives to ask themselves:
What would Jesus do?
Rather than what do the 1% and Norquist demand on taxes.
.
Jesus would probably live on a budget,not be in favor of abortion, would be in favor of nativity displays, believe that adulterers should be disqualified from leadership positions, and be appaled at all the corrpution in both parties.
Spot on William. Nail on the head stuff for sure.
i say lets go over the cliff.this is what you people wanted you voted for these liberal morons and its thier mess.of course the state owned media will spin it some other way.oh well.it is what it is.democrats made it and need to own it.good luck all.
jhertz
wow are you hateful..are U Even an American??? You sure don't sound like one.
State owned media jhertz? You can spin with the best of them. Except for FOX and Friends.
Why does everything have to be stated divisively? What do gender and race have to do with it? Why isn't Ambassador Rice simply a qualified nominee?
Republicans are the anti-Jesus party.
Jesus was pretty clear about tolerance, compassion, and how we should treat the weak, the sick, and the poor.
Republicans consistently show that they hate these principles.
Jesus also said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich person going to heaven. He also said what you do to the least of my brothers you do to me.
Jesus the humble! He can bring me to my knees just by looking at me.
Democrats no better, as a few have cried raciest over Rice just because some don't agree with her, or don't like her.
Bill I have not read anything by progressive democrats on this blog that call the three stooges McCain, Grahm, or Ayotte racists. Once again you conservatives just fill in the blanks with your own brand of "facts"
Where did I say anyone on this blog said such a thing?
Since Janruary 20, 2009. Progressive Think Tanks have been following the poltical, economic, and social patterns of the GOP/Tea Beggers in Congress. Those Tea Beggers that attended the "Caucus Conspiracy" are still in Congress, and their "Obstructionist Patterns" have not changed at all. The GOP "Hoodlum's On The Hill" have severely abused the Filibuster. Again! The GOP/Tea Beggers are still in full "Attack and Distract" mode. Nothing that the GOP/RNC has done so far is shocking at all America! Read Draper's Book America!